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SpecOps Labs offers $10,000 to Emulator Developers
mparaz writes "SpecOps Labs, the makers of the "David" Windows emulator previously accused of ripping off WINE, are offering $10,000 to a team who can build a Windows XP emulator in 15 days. " This whole thing reads really strangely to me.
Doesn't seem like much money to me, esp for a XP Emulator.
Judging by the quality of XP, it was written in 15 days too.
must be able to run David in it.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Microsoft dev time making Windows: 10 years.
Linux dev time making Windows: 15 days.
..it'll run on this optical laptop.
SpecOps Labs insists that this has nothing to do with the fact that they have told their investors that the company will have a completed Windows emulator product fifteen days from now...
So if I compile Bochs in less than 15 days I win?
I'll give $5 to the first team to write an X-Box 360 emulator for Windows, but you have to have it finished in 3 days.
Any takers?
$10K for 15 days work? I dunno, that seems rather good for one person, but one person couldn't pull it off. Water it down over a dev team and it certainly looks less attactive, but it would probably look pretty good on a resume.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
If they can do this for a mere 10K, when it took MS more like (Carl Segan voice) "Billyons and Billions," - can someone get me a Ferarri (and insurance) for like $.05?
from TFI: 4. System becomes the property of SpecOpS Laboratories.
I doubt many people will be willing to build their product for them, for just $10,000 anyway
Do I win?
"In the game of life, someone always has to lose. To me, if life were fair, that someone would always be Oklahoma." -DKR
That's totally impossible. Even if you had a trillion dollars it'd be impossible.
Whoever made that offer doesn't understand software or, more likely, is trying to encourage someone to spend 15 days obfuscating WINE to deliver it to him so he can start selling and then plausibly deny it when it comes up.
At the end of their 15 day time allotment, Apache will have finished compiling for you. All clear now?
This is *RIDICULOUS*. Assumming the Wine team only worked 2 hour per day, they've been at least 5 years working on it, which means 3650 hours.
Working 24 hours-a-day, 15 days would only mean 360 hours. Assumming they're not the EA-slavery kind of guys and give decent schedules (12 hours a day), that'd be 180 hours.
It's impossible, period. I say we bring the whole GNU community and investigate them.
I wonder if:
- the management already sold "their" windows emulator to somebody,
- has finally figured out that "their" windows emulator is a thinly-disguised, nearly verbatim copy of wine, in violation of the license terms,
- they need to deliver Real Soon Now,
- have very little money, and
- are trying very hard to bail themselves out before the delivery date.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Because windows costs $200 and linux does not.
11 was a racehorse
12 was 12
1111 Race
12112
Geordi: We can do it! Picard: Good! Geordi: It'll take 15 years, and an engineering team of 100, but we can do it. Picard: ....
Sony ha
They are just trying to get something for nothing, and they have a deadline. They obviously need to get this done quickly, and cannot afford to pay a developer team to write it.
Do they really think anyone in the open source community will be their personal slave for a few thousand dollars? Nice try, but anyone talented and fast enough to write this thing in 15 days doesn't need their money.
-- www.punkmusic.com
See Bruce Schneiers article on The Fallacy of Cracking Contests
This reads (or skims, the way I read it) more like they want an intaller than an emulator. Doesn't it say needs to run on WINE?
You're missing a category:
running Windows apps on a different version of Windows.
I develop on XP,
but I want to see if my code will still work on 98.
This is not emulation, but I can open a 98 virtual machine and test it out.
The same with trying the latest beta of visual studio, I'm not going to install that on my main machine, I'll install it on a virtual machine and test it out.
This offer is so ridiculous, why even give them publicity???
The game support (and isn't Games why most people running Linux maintain a Windows partition) in XP was better than in 2000, which was supposed to be more of a work OS. And, as useless as they usually are, the "compatibility mode" option for running programs occasionally comes in very handy.
This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
Yes windows does cost 200 dollars, but so do most commercial applications for windows. If you are gonna buy your commercial apps why not buy the windows liscence? If you are gonna use open source apps then run the open source apps on the open source operating system?
GL HF!
If my math is correct, that's $243,333-ish yearly, if you were to be paid $10k for every 15 days.
Works for me!
--
telnet://sinep.gotdns.com -- TW2002, LORD, and USURPER registered!
bork bork bork!
I made another copy of the text:
SpecOpS Laboratories
$10,000 Open Challenge
SpecOpS Laboratories (SpecOpS Labs) invites the Philippine ICT Community to participate in the DAVID Project. We are seeking a highly talented Consultant or Consulting Team that can contribute to the DAVID Project.
SpecOpS Labs is searching the Philippines for Systems-Level Hacker/s to serve as Development Consultant to the DAVID Project. As proof or our sincerity, we are offering US$10,000.00* to the first Consultant or Consulting Team who can take our challenge and prove their capabilities. Our challenge requires the delivery of a solution that will allow an MS-XP compatible application to install and run under Linux using x.org and open source WINE by October 5, 2005.
So, take the challenge now!
Criteria to Award and Conditions:
1. System has no proprietary software imbedded / required.
2. System is stable.
3. MS-XP compatible modules / functions are working as expected.
4. System becomes the property of SpecOpS Laboratories.
Registration Procedure:
1. Send us an Email indicating your intent to take up the challenge at ablang@specoplabs.com. Attach your CV(s) or company profile (if applicable).
2. SpecOpS will Email you the Challenge Registration Form and further instructions.
Challenge Activities:
1. Present the running solution at SpecOpS Labs office before October 5, 2005.
2. Validation of solution using SpecOpS Labs's criteria.
3. Award immediately.
* All monies in this challenge are subject to tax. The decision of SpecOpS Labs for the award is final.
I wonder what IBM would say...
n ers.htm
http://www.specopslabs.com/partners-stratigicpart
I put the windows xp emulator here.
Now show me the money!
Rob Enderle's excellent new book: Everything I needed to know about Computer Science I learned in Marketing School
They earlier claimed that they will come out with project David which is supposedly NOT WINE -- now they can't deliver, and they want someone else to do a proof of concept for them. Pathetic. They want to hire the best people in the Philippines but they can't even deliver even with the original team which claimed that they can do it. Now they will pay someone who thinks can come up with something which is *almost exactly* what they promise. Pathetic indeed.
Strangely, it will incite you to make inappropriate outbursts about your Linux distribution of choice.
XJS*C4JDBQADN1.NSBN3*2IDNEN*GTUBE-STANDARD-ANTI-U
SpecOps Labs are offering $10,000 to a team who can build a Windows XP emulator in 15 days.
And what are our assets?
Your brains, his beowulf cluster, and my codebase.
That's it? Impossible. If I had a month to plan, maybe I could come up with something, but this?
.. so you have to actually go to the Phillipines on spec, in the hope they'll accept it and pay you?
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
If you can build a good XP emulator from the ground up in 15 days, you don't need a lousy $10k
They're looking for locals. Which contradicts their earlier statement that they could not find talent here. (I'm in Manila)
So what does an "Windows XP emulator" do? If it's supposed to be a full implementation of the functionality in Windows XP, their "offer" is probably best classified as a publicity stunt. If they mean an emulator that can run Windows XP (you know, like Dosemu is (not) a DOS emulator), then it's probably just about doable.
Of course, knowing the recent quality of Slashdot summaries and headlines, it's probably something completely different; probably "extend WINE (or the company's fork) to be fully Windows XP compatible".
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Yeah, yeah- I know it looks like I just installed Windows XP on a cheap PC. That's the beauty of it. It's *perfect* emulation. You simply cannot tell it's an emulator. Even the install disk looks *exactly* like a Windows install disc. Gimme money!
For the SI challenged:
= 243%2C333USD%2Ffeet+per+year+in+GBP%2Ffurlong+per+ fortnight&btnG=Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&q
really 867993
Karma schkarma
So what if you need to do both, you have one box, and dual booting isn't an option?
DAVID is Windows compatibility middleware, which enables all major Microsoft Windows applications to run on the free and open source Linux OS.
Except, David (what they're promoting above) doesn't exist. Never has. Never will.
OK, fine. Here's your app. It's notepad.exe, and you can find it on your Win95 CD. Extract it from the cabfile and rename it. Throw dat sucker onto a FAT16 formatted floppy.
Stick the floppy in your XP box. a:\notepad.exe. Did it run? Awesome. First criterion settled. an MS-XP compatible application
Now, boot knoppix. Stick the floppy in your (currently) linux box. mount -t vfat
ALT-F2, konsole, (so we can watch), cd
Where's my ten grand?
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
That is if you were successful. Most people are going to receive $0k for spending 15 days unsucessfully completing the project. On top of that, any submitted code is now property of WINE.
Emulation is cool to people who know how it works. To people that don't, it looks like magic. The perverbial lead into gold. They see Super Nintendo and Playstation games run on their PC, and think that this can be done from any system to any system. It only took the 2 minutes to install Snes9x, why would'nt someone be able to write a Windows Emulator for Linus in 15 days!
I strongly doubt it'll be finished in 15 days.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
... Is so I can play Freedom Force without having to reboot.
And so I can open that Excel doc a client sent that uses VB for part of it's calculations.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
It's a lot of money here in the Philippines.
Funny they get back to us, the local developers, when their president declared there's no talent here and wanted to move on to India and Vietnam for his requirements.
I forgot the big one for those single geeks out there.
To watch pirated porn that's in WMV format.
That's a lot easier if you just run Windows Media Player under Linux.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
If you need true compatability, download the Application Compatability Toolkit, which has about a hundred different settings dealing with memory management, system permissions, presentation, APIs and API levels, etc. that you can configure on a per-application basis.
As I read it, it sounds like they are looking for a cutout.
This bit in the contest terms caught my attention:
So why would you set up a contest that you know nobody could win by following the rules?
Let's say that you represent an organization whose Windows emulation solution was to rip off someone else's solution (in this case, Crossover Office).
The owners of that original solution find out and you're busted. So now you're back to square one.
You could, of course, try to roll your own Windows emulator. But as others have pointed out, that's way more than fifteen days of work.
You could also license Crossover Office from Codeweavers. But for purposes of our discussion let's assume that you're a cheap SOB and won't do that.
So what you might do is decide to continue using ripped-off software, but this time, to do so using a cutout -- a third party standing between you and the code. In this case the cutout is the person who submitted the entry that won.
That way, when Codeweavers (or whoever) comes calling, you can say "But we're victims too! We were assured that the product didn't contain any proprietary IP! Look, it's right in the rules for submission!" And so the liability shifts from you to whover "fooled" you by submitting the ripped off software.
(Of course, if I were Codeweavers in that situation I'd argue that you should have inspected the software to ensure it met your rules before paying out the $10K. But maybe these guys haven't thought that far...)
By setting a ridiculously short deadline, you can be sure that any takers are going to be giving you exactly what you want -- someone else's ripped-off IP -- instead of trying to actually solve the problem from scratch.
Now you've got what you wanted without getting your hands dirty -- you have a fall guy to pass the buck to.
That's the only reasonable explanation I can come up with for why you would construct such a ridiculous contest, anyway...
Read my blog.
Well, that's ONE way to hit your deadlines before you meet a VC rep...
Isn't this why mplayer and mplayerplug-in is for?
#!/bin/bash
kview http://tinyurl.com/8v6re
Emulates most windows apps, all functionality is preserved.
Now where is my money.
My days of Porn under Linux probably predate mplayerplug-in. It's been a while since I bothered.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
- (Mr T's voice) A Plaaannnneee
He should enter.I thought true open source developers are happy just to have the opportunity to write code for free? 10k should be a HUGE incentive; especially for only 15 days of work!!!
Developers have been working on Linux for 15 years and some haven't received a dime.
SpecOpS Labs slaims in 1 year time-lapse...
The VC's who put their money into SpecOpS Labs are probably itching to get their ROI by now. They probably burned through their capital funding and now the VC's want some returns, or at least a product that can be marketed. These guys are desperate now. $10,000 is probably the only money they have left and the VC's won't give them anything more unless they come up with something.
I always thought these people were just VC fishers.
See also their previous page with buzz-word laden spiels, and outlandish claims.
They just define what exactly windows app should run in 15 days. I suggest it will be some kind of compatibility testing app, written specially for contest.
This whole thing reads really strangely to me.
Yes, yes it does. Specially that phrase. Thanks for the lovely grammar lesson, Taco.
http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/BlueScreen.h tml
1. Read website.
2. Say to yourself, "I can do that."
3. ablang@???
4. Profit!
Doesn't seem like much money to me
Just yesterday, I was surfing some code-for-hire sites, like RentACoder, and I couldn't believe what I was seeing.
People were asking for what I would consider to be $50,000-$100,000 worth of custom software, but were listing the projects with opening bid estimates at like $100.
Good grief, I thought: Bangalorean peasants would starve to death if they bid on those contracts.
As for SpecOps Labs, I sure as hell didn't RTFA, but just glancing at the headlines would lead me to believe that they are asking for $1,000,000 to $10,000,000 [or maybe even $100,000,000] worth of software to be written for a measly $10 grand.
Kinda surrealistic, if you ask me.
PS: The other thing I couldn't believe about RentACoder et al was the sheer audacity of those damned college students who are openly advertising for people to write their programming assignments for them. What the hell ever happened to academic integrity?
God, I feel like a dinosaur.
The summary is complete FUD.
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The summary of this story is a misunderstanding or fabrication. The offer appears to be for an XP application installer solution for Wine, not for an XP emulator. Then again, maybe the Full Text post and mirror are fabrications, but from what I read, they just want the installer, not a full XP emulator.
end of line
That's still a $200 discount. Also it means that you are no longer tied to one platform/vendor by any application with Win32 calls in it thus easing the pain of any migration considerably. Why do so few people switch to Linux? Its perceived difficulty doesn't help but not having viable replacements for most of your Windows apps (especially bespoke corporate ones) is a far more compelling reason to stick to what you've got despite its flaws.
Does a Christian soccer team even need a goalkeeper?
Send/track messages to 100K people: www.xPressAlert.com
What I find interesting is the incredible number of posts made here that are knee-jerk replies to the headline, which has almost nothing at all to do with TFA. What I find truly stupid is the number of such posts that have been moderated UP.
The Slashdot moderation system is designed to filter out trolls and losers based on what everybody agrees to be "insightful", "interesting" and whatnot.
But this breaks down when the average luzer who reads this is dumb, boring, and in posession of some mod points.
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
System is stable. - Defined how? What criteria will be used to judge stability?
SpecOpS will Email you the Challenge Registration Form and further instructions. - Which tells us that the text we're reading isn't the true offer.
Validation of the solution using SpecOpS Lab's criteria - Again, we don't know what the criteria are, and if they don't stipulate the criteria in the "further instructions" any promise they're making is too vague.
The decision of SpecOpS Labs for the award is final. - Paraphrase: "If we want to give you the money as a gift, we will. If we don't want to give you the money, we won't."
Gee, I wonder if this all was just a big publicity stunt?
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
They need to offer $100K to get any takers.
Best Buy can have you arrested
Why are developers always expected to work twice as much as everybody else, and still consider it a "decent schedule"? I'm seriously considering a change in profession.
:)
You should seriously consider changing an employer instead
3.243F6A8885A308D313
Thats the thing, if you are running Linux already, I doubt you are going to go out looking for windows apps, you are going to stick with Linux apps. You arent going to go looking for windows apps because someone was able to write a decent emulator? Wouldnt you want applications that ran natively on your operating system instead of adding another layer in a emulator? This argument can now go into platform independent languages IE java =)
GL HF!
I have to agree with the RentACoder comment. I was looking at it a while back as a possible way to have some money coming in when I didn't have any projects and was floored at what they were willing to pay for the work that they wanted. There were a few realistic projects there, but most of them were nuts and only wanted to spend a couple hundred bucks.
I was also amused not only that college students were advertising to have projects done for them, but that (at least at the time. it may not be there now) RentACoder had a SECTION for "school projects".
Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Loading a copy of Windows XP would be considered "proprietary software".
So is loading a copy of BIOS. The BIOS shipped with virtually all PCs is "proprietary software" according to Mr. Stallman's definition. Yes, LinuxBIOS exists, but its market share is negligible.
I'd love native apps for Linux. However I live in the real world where those don't magically appear since there is no financial reason for Microsoft, Blizzard, Intuit ad nauseum to port their apps to Linux. However a compatibility layer would mean that any pain of leaving Windows would be minimised. This goes double for any corp that has several Win32 apps that they would otherwise have to rewrite. It's crappy for sure, but it's practical.
Does a Christian soccer team even need a goalkeeper?
Yes they did.
To quote todays Turbolinux press release:
ReWind is a BSD licensed Wine.
So, I guess some coder could put a little bit of polish on ReWind, strip out all the indentifiable bits, and call it a Windows XP API emulator.
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
the gif patents have expired
Foreign counterparts to U.S. Patent 4,558,302 assigned to Unisys expired worldwide in mid-2004, but IBM holds a U.S. patent on LZW that does not expire until August 2006. Or is this one of the patents that IBM has donated to the free software community?
..run IE under linux under root mode..
download certain auto diallers & certain keyloggers & test them...or should i run in winxp only? for innovativation!!!
They could just take their $10,000 and buy all their employees a copy of XP.
wmvdmod.dll + xine?
Wait what the hell are you talking about? Big ew for w(i)mp.
[!] No, I can't see my comments. They are not worthy of +3 moderation.
Or...you could run it in Wine? There's no reason to run it in a VM unless you're sandboxing. VMs are a pain in the ass way to do it.
man, back in my emulation day, we didn't even have state machines.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
$10K for 15 days work? I dunno, that seems rather good for one person.
A good developer can command way more than the $83/hour they're offering (assuming 8hr/day, but you'd probably have to work more to complete this task), unless that developer is going through a contracting body shop which takes as much as 70% of your billrate.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
$10,000 for a finished project, eh? This doesn't strike anybody as a "complete ripoff" rather than a competition.
If, in 15 days, I write such an emulator, I will be selling it, rather than giving it away for $10,000.
Even if you had a trillion dollars it'd be impossible.
With a mere 150 billion USD you could buy a controlling interest in Microsoft Corporation and then release Microsoft Windows under the GNU GPL.
It may be the senility acting up but I'm reading the text differently (hmm 1984 CS AP all over again), to me it sounds like they have a particular application in mind. I.e. they promised a big customer that a certain program would work with their thingy (or Wine's thingy or whatever it really is) and they're down to the wire and are willing to pay some cash to someone clueful enough to finish the debugging for them in a hurry. So that's what they set up if you do contact them. $10K isn't such a bad deal for a one-time debugathon, as long you don't mind going to hell for helping them violate the GPL (if that's really what's up).
Well said, completely agree.
GL HF!