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China Declares War on Internet Pornography
segphault writes "The Chinese government has shut down nearly 600 pornographic web sites, and arrested over 200 people for distributing "obscene" content. The Chinese government has also started performing covert surveillance of mobile phone text messages in order to crack down on banking fraud and prostitution organized and perpetrated with text messages. Ars Technica has the story: 'With more than 100 million Internet users, China has the second largest population of web content consumers after the United States. Although the Chinese government promotes web use for business, education, and government activity, the communist regime has committed its resources to crushing web sites that challenge government authority, or distribute content that the government considers to be detrimental to society'"
...has shut down nearly 600 pornographic web sites
The jedys are going to feel this one.
checking content for the Chinese government and censor it accordingly.
Watching P0rn from 9 to 5 at work... hm wait, that's not that different to my current job...
there's always encryption. there's a whole world of dirty internet out there and if people want to see it they will find a way
This is just forcing people to use things like proxies or one of the many projects designed to bypass chinas tough filters...
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own" - Adam Savage
What's that? Like 0.0001% of all pornsites out there?
In the past they have:
- China: Police Shut Down Gay, Lesbian Event
- Rampant Violence and Intimidation Against Petitioners - Chinese citizens who petition Chinese authorities for the redress of grievances are attacked, beaten, threatened, and intimidated
Not to mention China's stance on Hongkong's pursuit of democracy...http://efil.blogspot.com/
I would think they have said ..... All your porn is belong to us ...... (groan :-))
...I obey the laws of physics....
China regularly launches campaigns like this, and although the "saohuang" (clean up the porn) movement is effective in barring domestic porn sites, there is absolutely nothing China can do about the influx of porn from abroad, especially from Japan and the West.
Furthermore, China is becoming more and more lax about porn, which any visitor to the country will realize within a day or so. Only the hardliners are still fighting it, but they might as well start a program to eradicate all the flies in the world. It is all in vain.
Now, why is China fighting porn? Because it is an old taboo since the times after the Tang dynasty. Before, China was sexually liberal, and now the times are turning again. This has to do with the opening up to the outer world in general, and with Internet in particular.
You should also note that there is no law against downloading or consuming porn in China. It is legal, it is practiced, and it is virtually unfiltered on the net (bar a few percent of the sites). What is illegal is copying and distributing porn, especially for commercial purposes. Spreading less than 20 "huangdai" (yellow tapes, porn videos) is not punishable. 20--99 tapes (or images) is punishable, and above 500 tapes (or images) is considered severe, with a potential lifetime imprisonment. This also goes for digital content.
The effect is that China is consuming as much porn as the rest of the world, but they won't be able to cash in on it. This is bound to change in the future, if you ask me.
The Chinese govt. can outlaw communication that they can't listen in on. That means they can enforce whatever policies they want. Also they can outlaw the use of proxies, and then spy on people to make sure they aren't using them.
So because the citizens don't have rights, the government can do whatever it takes to make sure that no illegal communication takes place.
That being said, they must see the internet as a huge threat to stability. It has already been shown in other countries that when people are peeved, they'll use communication systems like the internet and text messaging to cause trouble for the unpopular regime. So the Chinese really need a way to keep a lid on things.
The article says the Chinese are producing and distributing their own porno. Is it true they produce it? I would figure they'd just copy western porn -- why spend money to produce porn when you can just get it from the gweilo for free?
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_
FTFA: The Chinese government also recently increased surveillance of mobile phone text messaging, a popular method of communication in China where 383 million individuals use mobile phones.
For one thing, I didn't know that it was that easy for the cops. I bet it's even easier here in the US. Now that I know that the police have this capabliltiy, I can be a bit more vigilant about my own civil liberites, as much as I can. These things that China is doing is bringing to light some of the capabilities that police around the world have.
I am curious though, exactly how easy is it? Can some local cops in anytown, USA do this?
How much liberty and freedom would you sacrifice to remove goatse and tubgirl from the net?
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Oooh, perfect platform for the 2006 congressional elections!
Let me get this right... China doesn't want to see people demonstrating because they fear democracy. And they're attacking porn. Sorry, but I can't think of a better reason why half a billion Chinese would take to the streets.
It should be noted that in China the word "democracy" is considered pornographic
I'm taking all bets on which war is going to be won first.
The War on Drugs
or The War on Porn
Place your bets now...
I'm sorry for the Chinese, I think the pornographers are going to kick their ass.
"...sacrifice to remove goatse and tubgirl..."
I am expecting goverment and the presindent to create an new agency called NAPA (National Anti-Porn Agency) to purify the net from at least one of those.
Do they include Wikipedia in "web sites that challenge government authority, or distribute content that the government considers to be detrimental to society"? Because all of Wikipedia has been blocked in Mainland China since October 2005, before which only certain articles, such as the one on propaganda, and Taiwanese independence, were blocked.
I wouldn't get cross about this misnomenclature except that there have been a very few real attempts at Communist government, notably in India, and they shouldn't be dirtied by association. Let's be clear - if the Chinese people eventually overthrow or modernise their government, it will be the end of the process of the rise and collapse of large scale dictatorships in the 20th Century.
Pining for the fjords
With China these incidents are made public. With the US people, err potential terrorists, just disappear. Nice NSA...
It seems like China fail to see all the money there is to make with Porn. I thought they wanted to be the next big country. Also, Chineses will end up watching Americans/Europeans women instead of their own. Is that what they want.
No more bukkake for us !
I'm curious if they are blocking Slashdot? If no, then they will do it after this article :D
Two programs that can help:
*****Tor*****
"Tor: An anonymous Internet communication system
Tor is a toolset for a wide range of organizations and people that want to improve their safety and security on the Internet. Using Tor can help you anonymize web browsing and publishing, instant messaging, IRC, SSH, and other applications that use the TCP protocol. Tor also provides a platform on which software developers can build new applications with built-in anonymity, safety, and privacy features."
http://tor.eff.org/
*****TrueCrypt*****
"Free open-source disk encryption software for Windows XP/2000/2003 and Linux
Main Features:
* Creates a virtual encrypted disk within a file and mounts it as a real disk.
* Encrypts an entire hard disk partition or a device, such as USB flash drive.
* Encryption is automatic, real-time (on-the-fly) and transparent.
* Provides two levels of plausible deniability, in case an adversary forces you to reveal the password:
1) Hidden volume (steganography - more information may be found here).
2) No TrueCrypt volume can be identified (volumes cannot be distinguished from random data).
* Encryption algorithms: AES-256, Blowfish (448-bit key), CAST5, Serpent, Triple DES, and Twofish.
*Mode of operation: LRW (CBC supported as legacy).
* Based on Encryption for the Masses (E4M) 2.02a, conceived in 1997."
http://www.truecrypt.org/
...porn consumes you.
to be, "If it's electronic communication, you can be easily spied on."
Are you a US citizen? then shut the fuck up! :P
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Clearly, the Chinese government has misunderstood the very purpose of the Internet .
Such a fundamental misunderstanding of how the Internet is, and was intended to be used will result in the Chinese people using the Internet for less desirable purposes such as dissent, subversion, and spreading dangerous ideas such as freedom of thought and expression.
Those who would give up liberty in exchange for security and DRM should switch to Microsoft Palladium!
Interesting how the Chinese government goes all out on pornography, but does absolutely nothing to try to stem the rampant software and video piracy that takes place there. I need hardly mention the millions of machines spewing spam out into the internet.
I wonder whether the rest of the world would be for the better if China was completely segregated from the rest of the internet, with the only access through safe "portals" supervised by the government.
PocketGamer.org - For the gamer on the go!
China will loose this fight.
I Predict A Riot
That is not all that they are doing.
5 /220905dehumanization.htm
--
Total Dehumanization In China
Executed political dissidents organs and body parts sold to the west; US government not concerned
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september200
Well this all sounds vaguely familiar.. oh right! our own federal government helps us decide what ok for us to see/hear/read before prison sentences are necessary too. Many web sites have been sacked here. Plus *IAA is also preoccupied with information policing. Yet attempts to block any class of information from transmission is easily superceded by obfuscation, dilution and rerouting. What's left to stop free information being transmitted across when it becomes too hard to eavesdrop on?
There's plenty of hardware based methods workable with mass collusion of megacorps and interested parties. This is defended against by altering the hardware, building your own frobnicator, or resorting to antique / illegal technology. Generally difficult, crippling or expensive means. (category: printer dot-codes, tc, ???). Could we get as far as video/audio-card buffer transmission to your friendly chinese/american governmental morality monitoring center for spot checks? When will all our tin-foil hat choices contain drm/backdoors regardless of our illusory ability to always choose against these traits?
Can you name ONE Iraqi "terrorist" who attacked anyone inside the US before 9-11 or the invasion of Iraq in the first gulf war? Can you name ONE so called "al queda" leader who wasn't also a US/UK intelligence asset? Can you identify ONE large western US/UK based military corporation that DIDN'T supply saddam with weapons/expertise in the past? Can you identify ONE middle eastern nation that hasn't had it's internal politics consistently and blatantly interferred with by US/UK intelligence and the oil/military goods private sector, going back for 100 years?
If you want more hard questions to answer, they are out there. Here's one. Give a credible explanation how WTC building #7 came down. It has to be technically credible from an engineering standpoint, not just a government issued press release.
In other words, don't stop looking at history or data at some arbitrarily chosen comfortable point picked for you by someone else, ESPECIALLY government spokespeople and ESPECIALLY when it involves large scale power politics and sums of money so large as to be near unfathomable.
...Citizens Revolt. ^^
That way when China overthrows the USA as being the worlds super power they'll have satisifactory censorship to deal with all the international focus.
?!
In all seriousness, how can you call China communist when they outlaw labor unions? Though I know obvious points like that shuck people's ability to put things in tidy boxes.... especially about stuff like 'communism' if you have a vested interest in disagreeing with it.
PS: Sister Furong is the hot1
No, only US citizens deluded about the state of their own nation have to shut the fuck up. As it stands, this is my first post on the topic however, since it's the first time I have anything worthwile to say on the topic.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
Did I miss anything?
This post expresses my opinion, not that of my employer. And yes, IAAL.
.. as substantial privatisation has happened over the last few years. They are still oppressive though.
It does not seem like being oppressive is the problem the US or the EU has with communist states though, as they are conducting extensive business with China these days.
An oppressive facist police state is perfectly ok, as long as there are possibilities for making money from them. This makes a mockery of the argument that the US invaded Iraq to free the people from oppression.
Please consider how Internet censorship is being implemented in the "free world" when reading this story.
Example: Starting January 1st 2006, it is illegal to have organized debate on how to by-pass copyright restrictions in Finland. It is also illegal to distribute software, also free software, that can be used to by-pass copyright restrictions. This is a violation of free speech in the Internet in The Free World(tm).
Another example: In many countries now it is illegal to inform that the World War II holocaust where claimed six million jews supposedly died is a hoax. You don't even need to be accused of lying, which you are not by informing about this issue, in many countries you will simply be put in prison on the vague charge of "denial".
And there are many, way too many, examples on how free speech is being violated and limited in the western world.
The first amendment seems to be the only one left in the USA now and it is under constant attack. Eye-ball the story and ignore place in the world (China), this is something every citizen should protest against, regardless of where in the world it happens - And it is, sadly, a trend that I see too clearly all over the world these days.
Btw. You might aswell start using http://tor.eff.org/ right away - Sadly, tools that allow anonymous communication have now become necessary and essential.
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
It WAS communist, but due to trade with other countries, capitalism has become a dominant part of their economy. It's just not a democracy or republic. Technically, China is a "Capitalist Dictatorship."
As an aside, it seems that people want to blindly attach communism all the time. Yes, communism is bad, but to just blanketly poopoo it is stupid. The truth is that communism is one of the fastest ways to bring a country from total anarchy and poverty to a functioning economy. The problem is that Marxist socialism and communism don't dissolve into democracy like the ideaists said it would. Instead, the people in power don't want to let go of their power, and it becomes a totalitarian, oppressive dictatorship. China's transition to a capitalist dictatorship is probably less disruptive to the people and economy than the sudden switch from communist dictatorship to capitalist democracy in the former USSR. Yes, China's government really sucks and they need a revolution, but this needs to be considered objectively. Sudden revolution could be disasterous locally to China and globally. And things like this usually get worse before they get better.
So the government of the USA speaks for all people of the USA, does it? And every US citizen loves their government and agrees with it? I agree that banning same sex marriages is harmful, I agree that the US government supports unpleasant national governments for its own profit (though I think of Saudi). But I don't agree that Government is synonymous with people. That is the same "For Us Or Against Us" Patriotism con touted by the government whenever it wants to do something that will hurt the people
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
Cracking down of pornography, wiretapping its own citizens' communications without a warrant.
Wait a minute! Where have I heard the same thing recently?
That issue was decided a long time ago by the US supreme court. The porn lost.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
My thoughts exactly... "Oh noes!! This is sure going to cut into my supply of pics of pretty naked Asian girls!" :(
I want to play Free Market with a drowning Libertarian.
Marriage licenses are harmful. The blood tests to get one are a throwback from eugenics. Then there's the whole stupidity of the government conferring privileges to married couples.
I like to see this in the "One Child" context, perhaps China feels it's easier to control the birthrates when they control the amount of sexual propaganda in their society? I'm not saying it actually works - but they might feel every option has to be explored and controlled.
I'm really getting sick of stories treating the Web as if it were just another conventional medium, like TV or publishing.
The whole point of the Web is that everyone is a producer. Even though, yes, there are millions upon millions of end-users who do nothing but read cnn.com, aol.com, foxnews.com, and the like, there are also millions of everyday users who produce their own content. Be it through commenting on blogs (or running their own ones), maintaining a MySpace page, writing to a LiveJournal/DeadJournal/Blurty/etc., or actually running their own domain, Web users are making their own corners of the Web. For that reason, I find it deceptive (if not outright insulting) that the body of Web users are described collectively as "consumers". "Users" would be more accurate.
I can see where the conventional news outlets would be inclined to reinforce the notion that the Web is a one-way, inactive medium (like television), but it isn't.
With spending like this, exactly what are "conservatives" conserving?
I seem to remember that what I'd generally call "sex control" was/is a big deal in communist countries.
Is it a function of the general social tilt of the culture (eg, Russian, Chinese, etc) or is there something about totalitarian communism that's anti-sex?
A met a couple of people from behind the then-iron curtain when I was in college in the 1980s and the impression they gave me was that the general social culture was very accepting of promiscuity and pretty open sexually despite porn being strictly black-market. I did get the impression that it was partly a response to boredom.
Not very violent, but just try explaining to them during any of their propaganda sessions (any time they have one speaker, not just the full church service) that they have a seriously warped interpretation of the Bible, and just watch the crew rush up and demand that you leave.
China apologists always seem to float the transgressions of other countries rather than trying to refute the fact that the PRC government is evil. They do this because the PRC government is indefensible. The post I am responding to is a perfect example of this.
So, h4rm0ny, why can't I be for justice everywhere? In the PRC and in the United States if the USA government is also disrespecting human rights? Are you for absolute right and wrong or is politics a team sport for you?
Someone thought of the kittens!
Cynicism, like dogmatism, can be an excuse for intellectual laziness. - Susan Shirk
I am so glad I don't live in China...
It should be noted that India is not a communist country. We are in fact the largest democracy in the world (According to population). We have a democractically (Ok i wont go into gory details about cheating during elections) elected government.
This is your typical Chinese government wisdom of sweeping problems under the rug. Pornography is not the problem. It's merely a scapegoat. China has numerous social problems that result from a widespread tradition of sexual ignorance. Under the protection of this ignorance, drug resistant STIs are becoming widespread. It is now fashionable men to take on mistresses and for college girls to sell themselves to buy brand name purses. It looks like China is following in the footsteps of the West, duplicating and exceeding our mistakes. So much glory for China!
I, for one, do not welcome our porn-restricting overlords.
Internet Pornography wins.
check out java anon proxy server aka jap
Right now, your email, telephone, faxes, text messages and so on are all being monitored for keywords. There are no court warrants involved and there never has been. The recent news on Bush doing this is a farce. So what? It's being going on for decades. It's estimated to intercept three billion messages every day.
Echelon works through a variety of systems. They have taps in place at all of the main junction nodes of the telephone network. The big domed receivers, such as those at Menwith Hill pick up scatter from satelite links. The domes are used because a) the receivers can be damaged by weather and b) so you cannot tell where they are pointing.
All this talk of surveilence without a court order makes me want to scream "wake the fuck up people".
You can take away their political freedom, you can make them watch and read boring propoganda; but if you take away porn from the masses you have signed for your termination as a dictatorship. The masses need their visual opiates. -Marl Karx
Table-ized A.I.
Now I'll have to switch to Indian porn to still have low-costs. However, I will forever be haunted by the fear that I am looking at the pussy of the chick who took my programming job.
Table-ized A.I.
Bart: What happened to you, China? You used to be cool.
Do you have an e-mail address where I can report porno spammers being hosted in China?
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
Europe Internet Usage Statistics
USA Internet Usage Statistics
Or did a Holocaust denier just get modded (5, Informative)?
Don't get me wrong, I would jail the guy for thinking or saying this, but I wouldn't mod him up either.
(referring to parent post)
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
I'm really not sure that you understood my post. The one that I was replying to was modded down -2 Troll last I saw, so maybe you misread it as a reply to someone else's (your own?). If you click the parent link at the bottom of my [previous] post you'll see it.
Therefore, I'm provisionally withholding my response to your insulting post until I know that you really meant to direct it at me. But if you did, then please explain to me how saying that US citizens can hold a different opinion to the US administration is an "apology" for the government of China.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
the communist regime has committed its resources to crushing web sites that challenge government authority.
/.ter gets imtimated by the size of the male porn star's penis.
So, its government authority is being challanged by internet porn? I thought only
They shut down internet porn sites but porn is freely available in pirated forms at any and all video stores I went to whiel I was there.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
These kind of threads on Slashdot almost always have someone providing links to the discussed materials. Good, non shut down, non popup infested Chinese porn please. For research purposes naturally. As for the Chinese shutting down Chinese porn sites, it's news in the same way that the sun coming up every day is news. This is the same government that kills it's kids in Tianamen Square, invades and occupies Tibet to this day, ruthlessly puts down any kind of dissent and already has their own 'Great Firewall of China' with the help of Yahoo and other American companies. The good news is that no country has ever been able to keep their people down forever and China won't be the first country to succeed.
Enjoy your Karma, after all you earned it. Feel your Karma Joe, feel it burn.
The only real difference is what we are willing to accept as harmful porn or as detrimental to society. In America, many states still have laws on the books that prohibit co-habitation and/or gays. We also crack down on sites that we regard as illegal. A good example is child porn. Of course, most states define child porn as below 18 YO. But in other countries (and cultures and times), a child would be defined as below 12 (or possibly when a women starts menstruation or a boy grows hair). We have a loser definition than china, but a more stringent one than others. As to civil liberties, well, your seem to forget the more than 5 americans (we really do not know how many are there) who are being held in Gitmo, as well as the NSA spying. BTW, if you wish to state the spying is only those that talk to terrorists, well, I say that you need to prove that. Just 6 months the far right was arguing that warrents were used and that no harm would come from PATRIOT act, etc.
And as to intimidation, well, we all know that America gov. never intimidates anybody. No? We never hold people in prison without cause. We never hold people overseas without charges. And we never object when bad things are found out about the current gov.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
OK, just to defend China for a second, how can we be sure that the press did not say the Chinese shut down 600 kiddie porn websites? I mean, when you think about it, if you are charging people with running a porn website (e.g. "Click here to see Carmen Electra") chances are the authority that enforces that law must be hiding something. (e.g. a 12 y.o. alter boy). But if you are going after the sickos who run the child porn sites, then you have a reason.
However, the way the Western Media continues to call China a bunch of "commie scumbags" or say things like "Don't take your loose girlfriend to China" or "They'll arrest you for picking your nose" or "General Mao is watching you", perhaps China has a reason to block out our content.
However, going to the EU, the UN, or even our government to whine about "Those Americans women are showing there boobies on the Internet" is total crap!
If they don't like the porn on the Internet, then chances are they are defintely not going to like it when we send them the Chinese-dub of Brokeback Mountain.
The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.
With a nation that has huge overpopulation problem, killing porn is like shooting yourself in the foot :)
I mean see how USA is solving the problem in Afrika: giving every kid a $100 laptop with Internet.
As I sit here, the comment count is only at 212. Come on folks, where's the outrage? The righteous indignation of people being oppressed?
One this is for sure: if this article were about the United States clamping down, there'd be 900 comments thus far, with 899 of them calling the U.S. everything but Satan himself. But since it's China, nobody says (much of) anything. Just goes to prove once again that everybody's eager to call the U.S. the #1 enemy of...well, just about everything, but when real oppression happens outside U.S. borders, they're given a free pass.
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
prostitution organized and perpetrated with text messages
How does that work, exactly?
You can't take the sky from me...
First, there's a difference between aesthetics and morality, so the music hall isn't a good comparison. I don't know what the rules of procedure are in an alcoholics anonymous meeting, so I don't know how well that applies. Same for a political party meeting.
I said absolutely nothing about using insulting terms, so what was your point again?
I was in a church where the lecturer said something (for example) like, "Anybody would get violent if they were wronged a certain way", and my response would be "No, not all people would".
There's nothing insulting in that, but they insist upon you leaving anyways on point of calling the police.
Also, most church meeting are of the one ring to rule them all variety.
...pr0n watches YOU!
I'm sorry for the Chinese, I think the pornographers are going to kick their ass.
I think you misspelled "lick," unless that's in the members-only section.
--MarkusQ
Porn in Ezekiel? Pffft.
I defininitely meant to type "wouldn't" instead of "would".
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
China stopped being communist when switched from a planned/command economy to a free market system. But they made sure to keep the authoritarian regime in place.
Back in the 1930s and 1940s, they called that fascism. I guess when the pots occupy the media and government infrastructure, they are unwilling to call kettles black.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Well with a population of 1,306,313,812 people, I guess they wouldn't want to encourage any more sexual activity...
Fascism and Communism dash off in opposite directions. But they arrive in the same place. A feudalistic political/economic system where there is no distinction between governance and commerce.
So yes, when the international corporations BECOME the defacto government (by undermining political systems) than they effectively become the state and they will equally fit the "1984" paradigm.
BTW, just remember that China plays the same games as Big Brother (as does GW Bush). They are always stoking the people up about some external or social issue to keep them from thinking and acting critically against the states. A couple of months ago, it was Japan. In this case, it is pornography.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Are they so much like our right wing that they denounce porn in public while be enthusiastic consumers in secret??
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
I'll add that China always points out the mistakes of Western nations. True everyone makes mistakes. The difference is that in Western Democracy, the people have the right to CORRECT their mistakes through the democratic process. In China, only the oligarchy has any power to affect change. And most likely that change will be only for THEIR benefit.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
This is the pervasive common attack of the right is to accuse left of center politicos in the US of being communists.
It isn't true. It is stupid and it degrades any political discussion into name calling. Being pro-union is not equivacal to throwing political dissidents into a gulag. Last time I checked the left was AGAINST WTO inclusion of China for just these reasons, massive human rights abuses in China.
And for the record, Bill Clinton was NEVER, EVER, EVER a leftist.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
IF Dialectical Materialism is any measure of adherence to the Communist Manifesto, the USA is the most successful Communist country in the world.
Beginning with the Marshal Plan following WWII, the USA has given away more money and aid than all the other contries of the world combined. Japan and Western Europe were rebuilt by American generosity, and it was well into the 70's before they could begin altrustic donations, and then only because we bought their Volkswagons instead of Detroit's junk.
And now, 50 years later, we are shipping our manufacturing overseas, lowering our standard of living while raising the standard of living of every country that is now manufacturing the goods we once built but now buy at Walmart. China has been the biggest beneficiary.
And, manufacturing wasn't enough. Now we are sending our jobs over seas too.
But, NAFTA and OUT SOURCING aren't altruistic examples. They actually represent the greed of management and the stockholders, who don't understand that they are killing the Goose that laid the Golden eggs.
The fact that both political parties are doing their best to destroy those parts of the Constituion that they don't like, it won't be long before freedom of religion, the right to bear arms, or free speech or association will mean no more in the USA than it does in China.
Running with Linux for over 20 years!
But they haven't significantly affected the amount of Spam that gets through China's firewalls - most of the spam that I receive points to websites in China to deliver their information.
Also, their firewalls are too slow, and interfere with legitimate business activities. I work for an ISP in the US, and we constantly hear complaints from customers that their offices in China get terrible performance for VPNs and generally bad performance for web browsing because the Chinese monopoly telecom providers never have enough bandwidth in their connections to the rest of the world. Also, too much of the traffic between China and other sites in Asia seems to go across the Pacific Ocean to the US and then back again instead of staying on connections in Asia.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
China exports little girls into prostitution. I see no reason why the same people would be ethically opposed to taking pictures of it.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
If you pay any attention, you'll see that politicians love passing unenforcable and ineffective laws all the time, around the world.
China also passes 'human rights' laws to please the rest of the world, and then totally ignores them internally.
I don't read AC A human right
It's a wonderful thing, international trade. Just think - each time you buy something made in China, you enable the Chinese goverment just a little bit more.
We're buying our own coffins, folks. But hey, free trade is wonderful.
Yes, communism has been tried. In the USA. It works well enough in a small community, with selected participants, for a single generation. You can extend this longer through the extensive usage of banishment, where you simply kick out trouble cases.
But I have never heard of a successful large scale, internally managed communist country.
I don't read AC A human right
You think those 3 lines of crap is "worthwile"? Wow. Go back and hibernate.
Nice way to change the subject.
Ken Starr harrassed Bill Clinton for this stuff FOR YEARS ON END. They came up with ZIP, ZERO, NADA, ZILCH. The ONLY thing they could come up with were technically correct but misleading statements regarding immaterial testimony (hence not perjury by definition even if he did lie).
Bush just pardoned a drug dealer last month, so I don't know what you are complaining about. http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0
The ROCKET technology was to aid in getting US communication satellites into space. I didn't approve of it. But it doesn't affect the security of any nation or the United States. China already has enough nukes to destroy the United States. The thing they need to invade Taiwan is NOT missles, it is a NAVY!!!!
Back to the subject. Bill Clinton was never accused of spying on US citizens without court warrants. That is the issue at hand.
And for the record, Bill Clinton was NEVER, EVER a liberal. Bill Clinton was a centrist who backed globalization and free trade. Real liberals HATE free trade because it allows profiteering on human exploitation and lowers working standards worldwide.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
PORN PORN PORN!!!
Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
True communism is a magical world where everyone works together for the common good without any personal motivation, or coordinating mechanism. It is based on the denial basic truths about human beings, and the world we live in. Any rational, thinking person should realize that such a mode of social organization and economic distribution is unrealistic and impossible.
So yes, when the international corporations BECOME the defacto government (by undermining political systems) than they effectively become the state and they will equally fit the "1984" paradigm.
Dude, international corporations don't become the government in "1984". READ THE BOOK.
I envy you and your pictures.
My China Girl will not let me take any of her. :(
My other
Either it's just me, or China's tourism is going to go down a bit...=P
Dude,
I didn't say they do. Read my comments.
And BTW, I have read the book.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
The chin.ese G.O.V is also blocking emails which contain anit-gov words. Lots of business emails involuntary using some words are blocked crustily!
Furthermore, if someone search "sensitive" words such as "Jiung.ZaMin", "Fa.Lon.Gon" in Google, they will immediately block Google from this IP.
Very angry...
I love keylogger
If it (censorship, warrantless eavesdropping, sophistry-based policymaking) is good enough for America, it's good enough for China.
this just in, the rates of young chinese men committing suicide after seeing the size of the penis in movies, has dropped since the War on Pornography.
If your neighbours roof is flying past your window, you know it's cyclone season.
The best part of your rant is that equating India with Capitalism. Like if Nehru and the Congress Party never existed. Honestly man, your red Kool-Aid is much better than our propaganda.
Why you did not chose Germany and Japan as capitalist countries for you little rant is baffling.
Or myabe it was because you wanted to probe a point and you looked for the example that in you mind best fitted your preonceptions. Germany and Japan embraced (or in the case of Germany re-embraced) Capitalism and they became economic powerhouses. In the same period China was close to starve itself to death. Pol Pot,who followed Mao's ideology, almost succeded at the task on his own country. But no, better lets choose India (the leader of the non-aligned movement I hasten to remind you) and as a consequence we end with India being an example of capitalism going pear-shapped.
Look, I like your propaganda, it is cute. But for fuck's sakes, learn some history.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
... showing standards of living are declining in the US.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I'm not sure if you'll read this because its getting old, but I'll reply anyway.
I see what you mean now. I'm just curious as to the format of the session you were at. If it was a standard church sermon, they aren't usually interactive and interrupting would be disturbing the sermon. However if the "lecturer" was taking questions and comments, then I would be just as put off as you seem to have been.
This is great news! All you have to do to combat Chinese spam now it to get the Chinese government to think you host pornography. :)
|| China stopped being communist ||
It never was! That was just a lie we were told. The fact is, health care in China is all private, user pay! So mildly socialist countries would not consider them even mildly socialist!
When all the jobs vanished from North America and reappeared in China and China was said to have the fastest-growing economy, I said to people, "Damn! Seems our mistake was not being Communist!" But, of course, that was sarcasm.
Now, my grandmother was liberated from a Nazi Labor Camp by my grandfather, who was part of the 1st Infantry division and stormed Normandy on D-Day. I have no doubts that the Holocaust happened. I have no doubts that great evils were committed.
However, there are those who say it didn't happen at all, and there are those who say the numbers were greatly exaggerated, closer to 500K than 12M.
Now, in the same way that "White" doesn't mean "Aryan", "Jew" doesn't mean "Zionist". But there are still Aryans and Zionists out there, and all groups who purport their superiority are willing to use propaganda to leverage their interests. That a conspiracy to inflate the death toll may exist is really obvious: Just look at the difference in reported military deaths in ANY war. Take a look at Afghanistan or Iraq. We have 2 sides saying 2 different numbers.
Who is right? No one will ever know. But people who question currently-accepted fact should not be imprisoned for daring to do so. America has recently extradited people to Germany for the expicit purpose of their incarceration for daring to question what is commonly-accepted.
Questioning authority is good. Without it, we would still think the Sun orbits the Earth. Now don't get me started on September 11th -- suffice to say I hope people who question what happened on September 11th don't receive the same treatment as people who question the holocaust, or the truth will never come out.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
It wasn't a standard church sermon, it was an adult pre-service class, but the lecturer wasn't taking questions and comments. Part of the problem is that churches hardly ever have sessions where there's any interaction at all, just shut up and take the man at the front's word as the unquestionable, undeniable, truth, from God's mind, to his lips. Can't have grown adults thinking for themselves, now, that would be dangerous. A whole room full of fragile adults that can't handle civilized discourse, for that would be what the session would have been, if they could. The sort of people that churches are encouraging their parishioners to be aren't Christians in the properly capitalized sense of the word. As Steven Taylor put it, "Cloneliness is next to Godliness, right?"
I don't think I've ever seen any porn that I didn't simply find dull, to be honest. It's so obviously an industrialized, mechanical product; there's no storyline and the 'acting' seems as authentic as when your friend says 'Wow, what a lovely, shit-brown sixties Lada you've got yourself' - watching a plank of wood would be more captivating. If porn is all you know about sex, then you have a serious learning curve ahead of you.
Perjury and lying are two different issues.
If someone asked you the color of your eyes and you said blue when your eyes are green, that is not necessarily perjury. For instance, if the case involved tax evasion than the testimony would not be relevant. It has to be RELEVANT.
The judge in the case threw out the testimony in question as irrelevant. Hence it CANNOT BY DEFINITION BE PERJURY.
If you want to call it lying, that's all you. But if it WAS perjury, than Starr should have prosecuted.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
In general I don't approve of pardoning anyone unless they are innocent (i.e. railroaded). So no I don't approve of Clinton's pardon of Lasater (as Governor of Arkansas). This is mainly because pardon's are largely used as a way to:
a) Provide rewards to campaign contributors.
b) Shield the President and his administration from possible scandal.
But don't get all preachy about pardon's because Republicans are notorious for covering their tracks with pardons. They pardon money lau
Regarding Lasater himself. Don't get all preachy about all that Mena Arkasas stuff. I think something fishy went on. But I don't think that Clinton had ANY power to influence a CIA operation. If you investigate, it will lead you straight back to Oliver North and straight up to President Bush Sr.
Mena is one of those weird instances where both parties seem to have simply "dropped" the issue because they were both in for a world of embarrassment. And don't tell me that Lasater was "Bill's dealer" (though it is likely that he dealt for Clinton's brother). Clinton is to well put together to deal with that shit. But one COULD make the case that George was pardoning HIS drug dealers (or his brother's, or his brother's children's) because to this day, George REFUSES to deny that he has done drugs.
You say Clinton pardoned people before their sentence was over. How about Bush Sr pardoning people before they ever got to trial (the Iran-Contra conspirators)? And of course, the ULTIMATE pardon of all time, the Ford pardon of Nixon which effectively prevented any further investigation in the so-called "second rate burglary" and the grander scheme of ILLEGAL domestic spying that Nixon was engaged in.
http://www.robertscheer.com/1_natcolumn/01_column
http://www.salon.com/news/col/cona/2001/02/27/par
If this is an issue of restoring a "civil liberty", I think it's bogus. I don't really don't CARE about expungement and I really don't approve of THAT either for the same reason that I don't care for pardons. They are used as political chips. If serving your sentence warrants the return of a civil liberty, than you return it to ALL citizens, not just a select few who pay the right amount of money to a political action committee.
So there, I don't think EITHER party should engage in pardons or expungement (except in the case of minors) or commutations (except for commuting death penalties). And I think the legislative bodies should be able to overturn pardons as well by a simple majority vote.
The fact that everyone keeps bringing up everyone ELSE's pardons to me is a good thing. But don't be a partisan. And just remember that it's the Republicans that are the "tough on drugs" party. So hold yourself to a higher standard.
Personally, I'm for drug legalization. The drug war is just a big waste of time to me. But I say to you, hold yourself to your own standards!!!!
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Well, from what I can find, Clinton NEVER authorized the export of any particular technology. He approved the launching of satellites by Loral on Chinese rockets.
Loral passed some "hints" as part of a joint examination of a failed missle launch.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/spe
Republicans believed that the Clinton administration was protecting Loral as part of an "intentional" technology transfer. But you will see from Newsmax.com (a conservative news portal) that the Bush Jr administration really didn't take the issue too seriously: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/9/3
#
Avoiding Criminal Liability
# First, the U.S. attorney's office in Washington, which was handling the Loral investigation, had transferred the case out of the Justice Department and over to the State Department "for a civil settlement."
That means Loral is out from under any criminal charges or prosecution.
Instead, it faces a negotiated penalty - estimated in the range of $10 million, which is a token slap on the wrist in a business deal of this potential magnitude - and some technical revisions in the way it goes about handling its export-license applications.
# Second, as part of the settlement, which has been negotiated by Loral attorneys and the State Department for months, the door would be opened again for the company to resume shipping satellites and other sensitive missile technology to the Chinese communists.
That settlement is purported to be ready for announcement by mid-September.
The whole language is completely twisted here. It makes Clinton's approval of TRANSPORTING A SATELLITE TO CHINA FOR LAUNCH sound like Clinton was approving the transfer of documents relating to how to improve missle technology. This IS NOT TRUE.
The worst possible effect of this would be that the Chinese did yank that crypto board before launch and managed to snoop some US messages before the NSA changed the keys. As far as "missle technology", defense analysts typically stated that this was of no real effect as the Chinese already have enough nukes to destroy all major US cities. "Close" counts in nuclear warfare and it really doesn't matter much whether the Chinese can engage in a "tactical" nuclear strike since such a conflict is inherently unwinnable.
I object to all this from the standpoint that all this money for satellite launching was going oversees. The ONLY thing wrong with the NASA commercial satellite launches was that it was "competing" with a potential US competitor. But no US competitor EVER emerged, only the Chinese government. So if you want to blame someone, blame the Reagan administration who started the policy of launching US communication satellites in China.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Your NewsMax story contained a deception, according to the Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/spe
At a Senate Governmental Affairs committee hearing today, administration officials are expected to repeat their view that the sensitive devices were destroyed in the crash. But they say that even if the Chinese did recover the microprocessor chips, it's unlikely they learned anything. "The National Security Agency doesn't consider it a big deal," the administration official said.
"Any loss of the chips . . . would have had only minimal impact on national security," the NSA said in a statement last month, in part because the 20-year-old chips could have worked to encrypt or decrypt signals, controlling the spacecraft's movement in space, beamed only to or from that particular satellite.
The agency also said it has made routine upgrades since the accident to the algorithms or sets of instructions governing U.S. satellite cryptographic gear, so even if the Chinese found a device, it "cannot be employed to gain access to or control" other satellites.
Within a day after the February 1996 accident, a U.S. search team that thoroughly inspected the debris-strewn hillside in southern China where the crash occurred concluded there was "slim to no chance" the Chinese found the two American cryptographic chips, informed industry executives said.
The military and NSA changes it's cyrptographic ALL THE TIME. AND, the codes in question only referenced point to point communications between THAT PARTICULAR SATELLITE. Since that satellite was destroyed, there was ZERO impact on US communication security.
The posession of a radioactive hardened chip will give you little or no clue as to it's fabrication. If so, China would be manufacturing cheap knock off Pentium 4s.
You know, 8 years ago I wish I knew more about the way the right wing handles things. Pretty much EVERYTHING that comes out of a Republicans mouth is some twisted fabrication. I'm sick of having to listen to this BS and nod and be polite and than have to waste my time doing research as to why what they say might hold a nugget of factual information but in substance be complete and utter nonsense.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Why don't they shut down all of those pirate software sites in China? Probably because it puts dents in our capitalist pig wallets...From what I understand Copyright laws are very uhm, fishy in China..Anyone able to verify that?
THE MATRIX RESTARTED
Every time I see a post by you, it's filled with unsubstantiated speculations and assertions that border on lies, and easily reach the level of hyperbole.
No one listens to idiots like you because idiots like you are too stupid to see when you're beinbg manipulated by YOUR media and YOUR friends and YOUR politicians.
The truth is not what you claim, nor what any other individual claims because it is far more complicated, and you'll never know all the circumstances surrouding the issues.
So instead of making moronic proclamations of what my government does based on obviously biased "reporting" that you're too foolish to recognize as just another form of propaganda (your words not mine) you could instead stick to objective fact.
But then you wouldn't have anything to lie about would you?
How pathetic are you that you follow me from topic to topic and waste all your mod points at once modding me down?
"If you feel that way, please point out the lies and we will discuss them."
Ok, just point me to an objective source with no interest in playing up claims of torture. How about, say, amnesty international, an entity that exists to bring light to human rights abuses. They certainly wouldn't have any interest in overstating anything, especially in the interes of increasing donations...
Yet, amazingly, you don't see this. The facts of the governments operations aren't available to you and I, nor are they available to the people who claim to be reporting them. Any shred of honesty requires that you admit this. The fact that you like the propaganda changes nothing, it's still propaganda.
By the way, I find this lack of transparency extremely objectionable.
What you are missing, and apparently will continue to miss, is that the sources of your information have just as much stake in making things look bad as the other side has in hiding problems.
Yet for some reason you have given more credence to one side than the other.
Now why you'd ignore one set of biases in favor of another, when both are equally deplorable is beyond me, but you continue to do it, play the patsy, and swallow your food like a good little tool.
The facts exist independent of your agreement with them, and since you don;t know what the facts are, you need to stop acting like you do.
But you won't. It's impossible for people like you to ever admit that they don;t really know what's happening. The source of this arrigance is unknown to me, but it's disgusting, and you've succumbed to it.
How pathetic are you that you follow me from topic to topic and waste all your mod points at once modding me down?
They've spent all that money building their Army, and this is the war they are now choosing to fight. I bet there's a lot of people in non-communist'ish countries breathing a big sigh of relief right now.
Maybe we can get them to pick a fight on obesity after their done with the porn conflict. That ought to keep their army occupied for a while.
Censorship reduces the odds of being revealed as the owner of a small penis.