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Solar Energy Becoming More Pervasive
TheUploader writes "RenewableEnergyAccess is reporting that Solatec LLC has released a stick-on solar panel kit that charges your hybrid while parked. In related news, the world's largest photovoltaic system will be built, not on the roofs of Priuses, but on the ground of Nevada, and will provide clean energy for the US military."
The Prius has an MSRP of $21,725. At 10% the cost of the car, the solar panel kit ($2,195) seems like a reasonable deal, considering it facilitates 10% better gas mileage. At 55 mpg, the gas cost to drive 200,000 miles (at $2.20/gallon) is $8,000. At 60 mpg, the gas cost to drive 200,000 miles (at $2.20/gallon) is $7,333. The difference is $666. Considering the kit costs over three times what the gas savings amount to, it is hard to market on account of good money-sense. The only consolation is the concept of helping mother nature. I have limited understanding of the fabrication process of the solar panels, so it would be hard to say whether or not mother nature profits from this scenario.
So often we hear fuss about our petrol supply running out. Sure, perhaps someday it will. But like usual, basic economics will take care of the situtation for us. When one energy source becomes increasingly scarce, it will become more expensive. Thus other technologies, such as windmills and solar panels, will become relatively cheaper. And thus people and businesses will switch towards them, as in this case. Anyone with any economics background would have known that decades ago.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
Since we got rid of that evil Mr. Burns and his sun blocker. Not to mention all that incessant hooting.
It's that "Global Warming" thing. The sun is out!
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
I thought that there are other more efficient ways to harness solar energy.
Like polishing up a bunch of mirrors and focusing them on a source of water. You boil the water, steam spins a turbine and you get electricity.
Do solar panels really give us the most bang for the buck?
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
What driving conditions are they talking about? Is this just driving around or is the the typical work commute -- drive to work, sit in a parking lot all day, drive home?
Fight Spammers!
.. remember the alternative sun being created by (or attempted by) the Chinese? But, solar and wind energy (unlike say Hydrogen) are so region specific, that they impose problems for wide-spread acceptability. And there arent any means found to store them successfully.
Let's triple or quadruple the cost of petrol, for instance, perhaps due to a stagnant American economy or an American attack on Iran. Now you may just see some benefits to such a system. Of course, if the prices rise quickly on such an essential commodity, things might change relatively fast. You may not have a job to drive to, for instance.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
That's fine and dandy that the military will be benefitting from green energy.. but how about consumers? Is this why the pentagon's budget is roughly $400,000,000,000.00 ? Because they get to spend spend spend spend on any damn project they like.. what does this have to do with protecting the country from tur'ists?
Fuck that shit... build the fucking array of photo cells and then reroute to energy straight to the heart of Vegas. You know how fucking expensive it is to run an air-conditioner during the summer.
I'm looking for the option to solar cook turkey burgers while driving through a desert. No need to stop off at McDonalds a hundred miles away when you stop off the side of the road to fix a burger.
I suppose at 0.6mm thick and with "aircraft grade adhesive" they must stick very well, but I still can't shake the image of these going flying off while driving on the expressway. Certainly a step in the right direction though.
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Hear, hear!!
Half the fun of a good performance car (or motorcycle) is the exhaust note?
I used to love to drive my last car down the French Quarter or parking garages, it was such a low, bassy note that I'd set off car alarms all that were set way too sensitive.
Was good for a laugh....
But, if I'm gonna spend $30K or more on a car, I want it to look sharp, drive fast, handle, and sound great.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
The United States Military, powered by PBR!
Hades, PoD: Official Advocate
It's widely known that those men want want loud and/or fast cars are often the men with the smallest penises.
It is also widely known that compared to other men, American men have by far the smallest penises in the world. They try to make up for their genital deficit by driving the biggest, nosiest vehicles they can debt themselves into.
Frankly, I'm glad I'm European, and I ride a bicycle. The only problem I run into is keeping my cock from getting tangled in the bike chain.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
I thought http://www.stirlingenergy.com/ was a better solution
Learn to love Alaska
Sadly, based on my understanding of the product described in the article, I don't see any way it can achieve any real MPG improvement. It only charges the small accessory 12V battery used for starting the car and running the power accessories(AC, steering, radio, etc). It provides no juice to the 28 200V main battery bank modules that power the engine.
But such curtailing will happen automatically. As oil becomes more scarce, the price will rise. And thus will rise the prices of products which require oil for their production. So the price of plastics will rise, for instance. People will begin to choose relatively cheaper alternatives. So your toothbrush will likely cost a dollar. But it may consist of a wooden handle, rather than a plastic one.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
And include some extra Li-Ion battery capacity and a plug-in bridge rectifier so that it's solar-and-grid-and-gas, and this would be *really* interesting for a dealership add-on. I'm willing to bet you could push it to nearly 25% increase in efficiency.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
If you're looking to heat water, the focused mirrors on pipe approach works fairly well (or just paint something black and move pipe water through it). Essentially you're just using various tricks to store heat produced from sunlight in a fairly efficient manner.
If you're looking at powering televisions and radios, though, you need to have electricity. Photovoltaics generally work best for that. Turning heated water into electricity does work, though at a lower efficiency.
There's other issues, of course. Just because photovoltaics are more efficient doesn't make them cheaper. There's the long-term costs and how much investment you're willing to make in order to get your cost savings.
Interesting point that alternative energy sources are only regionally effective. Maybe we should be focusing on the storage and transport of energy instead of collection. Then we just toss a few solar collection satellites in orbit where the weather can't affect their efficiency, and send it down in some manner more efficient than photons through an atmosphere.
Wow, those alien spaceships must need a lot of juice just to get them hovering off the ground.
If i wanted to hear bullshit, i'd go to church.
Not for me, give me a Diesel/Hybrid and watch it go Bio-Diesel. Diesel/Hybrids(the clean kind of Diesel that's supposed to his US markets in the next few years) get about 70-80mpg already, then switch it to Bio-Diesel(which normally gives another 5 to 10mpg depending on the type, or none at all). Suddendly you're paying 10c/gallon for 70+ mpg.
Even at 60mpg @ 10c(est cost of making it at home) you're doing pretty damn good.
Dio Diesel/Hybrids and Retail Fueling Sites are good places to look too, but it's probably better to make it yourself.
...and will provide clean energy for the US military.
Until the first big hail storm, that is. (grin)
But in all seriousness, how do such systems stand up to severe weather, particularly large hail?
Proverbs 21:19
Yes, a particular product today may require oil. But as the price of oil increases due to increased scarcity, manufacturers will instead switch to relatively cheaper non-oil alternatives. So often times you'll end up getting the same products, but they'll be made of a different, cheaper material.
It's happened with coins, for instance. While certain coins one contained large amounts of copper, they now are made mostly of zinc with a thin coating of copper.
Remember, plastic is only used so often today because it is so cheap. Once the price of plastic rises, people will switch to other materials which are relatively cheaper.
I lived a good portion of my life before plastic became widespread. We used glass bottles instead of plastic bottles for many drinks, for instance. Somebody who grew up only using plastic might have a difficult time accepting the idea of not using plastic products. But it's more than possible, and was reality even just a few decades ago.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
This is a really good thing for the Vegas valley and the Military, who will also be a customer (Nellis, Indian Springs, Nevada Test Site). As a resident of the Vegas valley I can assure you that we need more projects like this. It would be nice if they could use these Solar farms to produce all the energy Sotuhern Nevada needs, but I dont see that happening any time soon.
./'esque note, it would be nice to see a boost in jobs for engineers/IT because of this new plant, which needs trained technicians to keep it running.
On more of
On a political note, you have that pinko Sen. Harry Reid touting it like he had some hand in getting this project done. Sorry you bastard, you had nothing to do with it. This will be a privately owned project, no government hand, which in my book is the best way anything can be done.
Funny how all we have in office these days are communists and fascists...
Or perhaps they enjoy the awe of controlling mass amount of power. Something so powerful it'll kill you with one driving mistake.
It's like skydiving. You don't have to spend money to go fast either. I'm building a twin-turbo 351w Mustang on a college budget. It's a technical challenge and a hobby.
A typical car windshield can stop golfball-sized hail without much difficulty. It is quite possible that similar glass could be used to protect solar panels.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
How about this: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/01/psa_peugeo t_cit.html
Don't build them above the trees?
It's not like the places where solar panels would be placed are particularly nature-friendly anyway (rooftops). No one is saying bulldoze the rainforests and put solar panels there.
I'll form my OWN solar system! With blackjack! And hookers!
If you're going to spend more than $30k on a car, then one would think a simple speaker with an MP3 player of engine emission sounds would suffice....
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Stick black tiles on the roof of a house, and they absorb a massive amount of solar energy and don't do much with it except convert it to heat, which gets radiated and helps the greenhouse effect, which I think we're helping quite enough anyway. Stick solar cells on that roof instead and they absorb the energy and use it to heat a house's water supply, which would other wise have to be done by other fuels.
I did see a similar product recently from a link from a different site (not sure if this is the same one, since we've killed their server)-- and it worked by charging a *separate* 12v battery system. The problem was that they didn't want to screw with directly charging the hybrid battery since the controls were not designed to do that while the car was off. So they add another battery to store up the solar energy, which then dumps into the big battery (presumably through some sort of voltage conversion) when the car is running.
Not a terrible idea, but not great either. I think you'd be better off sticking the same number of panels on your roof, and selling the power to the grid. Same power saved, less hassle, fewer unnecessary lead-acid batteries, less weight on the car. The right way to charge the hybrid would require the hybrid to be designed for "plug-in" charging from the get-go.
we would likely see some disturbing side effects of using this energy.
Nah. It all ends up as heat anyway. Thermodynamics 101.
Others have said it before me but this would seemingly be worth it on a plug-in hybrid to charge the supplemental battery.
Here, we get about 70-80 percent of the electricity from a solar cell on a grey and cloudy day - yeah, it rains a lot here - but many people have hybrid cars. Way more than most other places.
So, while the hybrid car is sitting in the carpool lot, a rooftop solar panel can charge up the battery - or maybe carpool lots could provide these as plug-ins - while your car is washed clean by the soothing misty rains that drive you insane. Saves on gas cost - especially with the new plug-or-pump electric hybrids that let you plug in if you want to or just use gasoline/biodiesel.
Or you can use cheap hydro or wind power (3/4 of our energy supply) to plug in and do the same thing.
It's not like your car was doing anything - it might as well charge up while it's taking up valuable real estate.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Side note, we get less then 20% of our oil from the middle east, if they drop out completely we would just push harder on Venezuala.
On the other hand, if you buy a brand new VW Gold tdi (turbo diesel) for about the same cost (nicely loaded just under $22k) you get 45mpg (realistic estimate, not inflated EPA). So your fuel costs are similar to the of the Pirus but you have a car with significantly more power and pep. You also have a vehicle that can be feed 100% biodiesel and run with out a drop of petrol. And given the ruggedness of Diesel engines and the VW quality, you have a car that will continue to get 45mpg for 200,000. Compared to the Prius which is going to need new batteries every 3-5 years.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
It is also widely known that compared to other men, European men have by far the smallest brains in the world. They try to make up for their genetic deficit by being biggest, nosiest and dumbest arrogant bastards known to humankind.
Even if you do have a large penis, that fact alone in no way implies that you have the intellegence to use it correctly.
Looks like a CLOUD passed over their SERVER FARM!
Ha! Ha ha! Ha! Ha, ha ha! Ha ha, ha, ha!
Ah, renewable energy! Endless mirth!
I know there is a crapload of solar energy bombarding our planet every day, but isn't there some point where the amount of solar energy that we intercept for our own use causes problems with our environment.
If I remember this right, 75% of the light that hits the earth is reflected. I could be horribly wrong about this figure and it might only be 25%, but I believe the issue is that most of the light that is reflected is by the Ice caps since white reflects all colors verus the oceans reflecting only blue and forests only green.
I think we face more of a risk of absorbing too much light from lack of ice caps than building too many solar arrays.
Heck these solar arrays might actually reduce global warming since they are converting it to electricty instead of all just heat (yeah... there is plenty of heat still generated, but not as much).
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
. remember the alternative sun being created by (or attempted by) the Chinese? But, solar and wind energy (unlike say Hydrogen) are so region specific, that they impose problems for wide-spread acceptability. And there arent any means found to store them successfully.
Sure there is, gravity-pumped water storage. During sunny or windy periods, any unused draw is used to pump up water to a higher elevation, which can then be used for water usage (got to get the water in those towers somehow) or for power generation (how do you think hydroelectric dams work). Many nations like India and Denmark use this to store wind energy - they pump up the water and then use it.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Let's see... incoming solar radiation either gets re-radiated back out to space, or ends up as heat energy somewhere. Incoming solar radiation that hits a solar panel gets reflected a little, goes to heat a lot, and generates a little electricity. Which eventually ends up as... heat.
The main impact of large-scale solar is how much you affect the planet's albedo (tendency to reflect the energy back into space). If you put your solar installations over surfaces with similar albedo (say, parking lots- they are both pretty black), you're good. Much less impact than, say, melting high-albedo ice caps.
I've forgotten the details, but I believe that the potential temperature forcing due to the albedo change of large-scale solar power is much, much smaller than the forcing of, say, doubling atmospheric CO2 (which at current trends we should easily reach in less than 100 years).
Simple Unexpected Concrete Credible Emotional Stories
This should help a lot.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
This sun charger will benefit people with short commutes much more than 10%. maybe as much as 100%. Whereas it will hardly benefit at all anyone with a long commute. Yet it's precisely the latter folks that benefit the most from pruis ownership. Moreover city drivers probably don't park their prius on the street, but rather in a sunless parking garage. So this will not affect urban pollution.
One the upside this probably works best during summer when gas prices are peaked.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Got this message on trying to view the article:
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Therefore, here's a cached copy from Google:
http://tinyurl.com/7amp7
I Thess. 5:16-18. "Elephants are the only mammal not known to jump."
hmm, i had a similar thought about wind turbines potentially messing with weather patterns and wave/tidal energy technology messing with sea currents. But to be honest i thought i might be getting slightly paranoid - particularly when i started thinking that nuclear reactions might be messing with the finely balanced fabric of space/time and accelerating the collapse of the universe.
Solar thermal like the Stirling Energy Systems dishes just turned up, or the Solar trough technology, or thermoharmonic generators, achieves 30%+ efficiency and has been running neck-and-neck with photovotaics. Until PV utilizes more of the solar radiation bandwidth, I expect that both technologies will be used.
Someone had to do it.
"Most of the rest of the world wants as silent of a car as they can find, which is why the vast majority of new cars are completely silent."
I'm not going to get into politics here, as much as you might like, but the reason most new cars are "silent" (they're not, they're actually quiteloud from the OUTSIDE) is because the most common type of engine, a 4 cylinder, has a terrible exhaust note.
Funny though how you automatically assumed the "rest of the world" shared your ignorance.
How pathetic are you that you follow me from topic to topic and waste all your mod points at once modding me down?
The only consolation is the concept of helping mother nature.
I wonder if this product breaks even, energy-wise, when you account for the energy needed to manufacture it?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Any system that simplifies or minimizes the logistical load on any military installation or deployment is good for the military. For them, the issue isn't so much the absolute cost, but the availability of electric power when they might need it. Might not have been trivial in an age where field telephones could be energized by hand cranks...but considering the amount of information technology that goes to war with a post-modern army, it's not a bad thing for the guys in uniform to be investigating. If photovoltaics mean that installations in the field will not need as many gallons of diesel fuel to run generators, that diesel can be put to better use ferrying other needed supplies, or evacuating casualties.
oh you mean like those idiots that spend $500 to make their exhaust sound as if you punched a hole in it with a screwdriver... or so that it sounds like a hedge trimmer....
either way, you might be getting noticed but it is because people are laughing at you
The phrase "more better" is acceptable English. suck it grammar Nazis
Yeah, enough of this solar crap! We are using up the sun!
The dialectic gets you coming and going, comrade.
Yes, Cyric, but people don't understand economics; they understand finance and call it economics. That's like strapping downhill skis on a cross-country skier and expecting him to make it to the bottom of a black diamond trail in one piece. Finance and economics are both about money, right? Skiing is skiing, right? WRONGO, JACK!
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
OK - lets do the math.
Can't RTFA due to slashdotting, but lets assume (generously). A 75 Watt panel is about 2' x 4'. Say we paste 2 on our car. Energy output over 8 hrs is 75W x 60 sec x 60 min x 8 hr x 2 panels = 4.3 MJ (mega Joule). Gasoline energy content = 45 MJ per gallon. OK we have saved 1/10 gallon of gas.
Wait...car engine only delivers about 25% of fuel energy as useful work. On the other hand we loose a bit of energy storing and then retrieving from battery but probably not more than 10%. So net net we gain about 1/3 gallon of gasoline equivalent in 8 hrs.
Not much gain really. Better to roof parking area with solar panels and everybody plugs in. Panels aren't lost if you wreck your car, plus you get to park in the shade.
* numbers pulled from wikipedia or butt as required
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
Not true at all. The difference between full and empty isn't that much ... IIRC the (original) Civic and Prius are 100 watt/hr and 300 watt/hr respectively. The battery isn't big because it has to hold a lot of power, it is big to reduce the cycle depth.
Say 10 hours parked outside and a short commute, yeah, even a modest cell would help a lot. Now if you park in a garage and have a long commute, then the extra weight is going to outweigh any benefit
As for any benefit while sitting in traffic, well, not much, the power output of the cell is likely less than your cars "hotel load." While actually driving the weight of the cell will increase your marginal fuel use more than any power benefit it offers.
Basically, the question you have to ask is: Does the cell over the course of the day provide more power than it takes to carry it around.
For a short commute, and a light weight cell, the answer is probally yes, but you might not want to bother taking it on a cross country trip
(can't tell due to slashdotting) ...I don't believe the 10% claim. All they are doing is charging the tiny 12V system which only draws 200W, not the main batteries. Now if they printed a CIGS panel on the entire area of the roof/trunk/hood, they might be able to charge the main batteries like the Lapp Prius and actually get real results. Other than the flexible stick-on panels being very nice, they aren't ready for prime time yet if all they can deliver covering half the roof is 60W.
:-)
So A funny thing happened today, BTW -- I went to renewableenergyaccess like I usually do, and they were "experiencing technical difficulties." So I figured -- this is unusual, I've never seen them have problems before. Then I came here, and voila! Source of problem found!
(Folks interested in energy stuff are welcome at my dkos diary BTW -- skids.dialykos.com)
Someone had to do it.
PBR and SunEdison will develop a total of 36 MWs of PV projects in Nevada, enough energy to power 36,000 homes.
Or two casinos for 6 months! Come on, who are they kidding. Vegas is in Clark County. This power is going right to them!
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Who wants a silent car? We want a car with a soundtrack to be noticed by.
;)
I want a silent car. I don't want or need to be noticed by everyone, just as long as I'm not literally invisible so they run in to me.
I feel no need to impress people on the street with the sound of my car's motor. Don't care what they think.
They should make them sound like a Wraith Dart. I'd drive that, no question about it.
Then pay me my commission on this idea that I never hear talked about otherwise in any serious manner.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Well, thank you ScuttleMonkey, just wish you'd linked to one of our more recent stories. Yes folks, we'll be off-line until you all find something better to do. Cheers!
Don't know about where you live but in my state diesel costs on average 30 cents/gallon more than 87 octane.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Unless you're storing vast amounts of energy in the largest batteries known to mankind, any energy captured by solar cells is going to quickly turn back into heat again anyway. May I remind you that that is exactly what would have happened had we not captured that energy in the first place.
Now, if you covered a large portion of the planet with solar cells, and used that power to run a giant laser which blasted that energy off into space, never to return, then you might run into some problems. But we don't use energy like that.
Am I the only one who thinks the Prius looks futuristic and cool?
+++ATH0
Totally off topic, but my '74 Alfa GTV is a 4 cylinder and the exhaust note is music to my ears (when it's actually running - which it isn't at the moment, grrr)
Read up on the "urban heat sink effect" of large cities. For every 1 mile radius of city, the core temperature rises up by 1 degree centigrade. So the core temperature for a large city can actually be 10 degrees higher than in the suburbs. And urban development causes rainwater to run off 10 times faster than if it were being soaked up by natural vegetation. This has the effect of disrupting local weather patterns to the extent that a city can actually created a rainfall shadow; an area downwind of the central core which has an artificially higher rainfall (which might not be too bad unless it's acid rain). NASA have more details.
The effect of solar panels is negligible compared to what we have already done.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Well, is a little more than sound I guess...it is sound and 'feel'...
Not very quantitative I know...but, it is that 'thing' that fuels performance car lust...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I was intrigued by the last part of the summary -- that the world's largest solar project (almost twice the size of the existing largest) will power not US houses, not US hospitals, not US industry, but instead will power the US war machine (an organization which has a publicly stated goal of world military domination).
Seems a fitting snapshot of the US's continuing economic decline.
a wind-up car for fuel efficiency
I lost my sig...
The invisible hand only reaches the correct solution when the correct information is available to the market. The true cost of oil is being hidden from U.S. citizens by a government system of targetted subsidies funded by universal taxation. Since the tax is applied universally, the public does not experience the true connection between cost and product, and therefore it not incented to move to lower-cost products.
Universal health insurance causes a similar effect in health care prices. When it costs the same to go to the emergency room as it does to go to the local clinic, the average person does not discern a financial reason to choose one over the other. The insurance system does experience the price difference, but rather than exposing the person to it, distributes it equally among all actors. The result is a greater financial burden on all, with no free-market mechanism to correct it. The problem is typically then solved by regulatory oversight, which introduces a new cost to the system.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Thus these hybrids need more grunt in their exhaust.
If you want more grunt in your exhaust, just eat more beans. The people around you will appreciate it just about as much as they appreciate that cheesy loud "muffler" on your Civic.
Old people fall. Young people spring. Rich people summer and winter.
I'm not going to get into politics here, as much as you might like, but the reason most new cars are "silent" (they're not, they're actually quiteloud from the OUTSIDE) is because the most common type of engine, a 4 cylinder, has a terrible exhaust note.
My 4 banger makes sort of a "WEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeee!" noise, and that's with everything stock. I'm sure if I put a new exhaust system I could sound more like a pack of angry bees and less like a hyper squirrel, though. I'd rather not make my car look like a Matchbox Car, though. But no matter what, my car will never sound "mean."
I drive a 4 cylinder 95 Honda Accord, btw. When I bought it, having a "mean" and fast car wasn't my #1 priority.
rm -rf
Putting solar cells on your car is dumb:
Having PV grid-tied, means you feed electricity onto the grid at typically peak usage times, then recharge your car at night at off peak rates.
A Prius' real-world mileage is less than a Golf or Jetta TDI, so it's about a wash.
Meanwhile, the Prius doesn't run on any alternative fuels, while the TDI will (with some degree of modification, NOT including engine internals) run on vegetable oil. Veggie oil kits will run you $650 to abotu $1200 depending on what kind you get. The higher-dollar kind is a single-tank conversion (from Elsbett) that lets you put diesel, kerosene, veggie oil, whatever into the same tank. I'm planning to get it for my Mercedes 300SD.
Assuming we're not going to cut down our vehicle use, there is only one rational answer to propelling them, assuming current technology: Build a bunch of hydroponic algae farms for the production of biodiesel. The leftovers can be used for fertilizer, and meanwhile the algae will be producing oxygen that we need desperately given that we're destroying oceanic life at unprecedented rates and oceanic algae is the source of the vast majority of our oxygen.
Hybrids won't help here, and the total energy cost of the hybrid is probably a LOT higher than a TDI, given the batteries and electrical system.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
pbr anyone? i for one support our new drunken overlords
I understand the feel- but given a good butt-thumper system, you get the sound and the feel, and if you key the playback to acceleration/deceleration rates, it is potentially possible to simulate any given sound/vibration/accelleration "hear and feel" in an electric vehicle. The only thing missing for me would be the clutch- or for that matter, the transmission...in a good electric vehicle, gears are no longer neccessary.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
It has been suggested that silent cars might result in more accidents involving pedestrians as they don't hear them coming and could potentially step into roads in front of them - seems a little over the top, but i'm guessing you're a conscientious type and wouldn't like that to happen.
So solar power goes from providing 1x10-1000000000 of our power supply to providing 1.1x10-1000000000, that's a *lot* more prevalent - yes!
... about that. The Iranians and the Russians, Venezuelans, Albertans, et. al. will take care of that for us.
They'll pay a couple hundred bucks to whoever recycles the pack, as an incentive for owners, mechanics, and junkyards to do so. It's like the bottle deposit some states have, only much, much larger.
But, do you park your car at home? Most people park at work.
...]
The best thing to do, IMHO, is to:
1. get a plug-able biodiesel hybrid car. (most hybrids don't plug in)
2. drive to the nearest park and ride or carpool to work.
3. plug in your biodiesel hybrid car at the park and ride or work carpool lot - either to wind-power or solar-power or hydro-power.
4. PROFIT!
Nothing wrong with having solar in your house, but it's best used there if you're:
a. retired;
b. working at home;
c. taking the biodiesel bus or hydro-powered SkyTrain to worl; or
d. using it to heat the hot water heater or provide passive solar stored for evening heat.
[ok, so I was one of the first 100 Solar Energy Society of Canada members
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I agree it's not economical, but 10%/year degradation is FUD.
More like 1-2%/year for good panels in normal radiation.
(10-20% over TEN years)
Here's a graph..(read down)
http://www.solarstorms.org/Svulnerability.html
I'm not going to get into politics here, as much as you might like
Uh...okay. That really makes sense in the context of my message...or not.
I'm not going to get into politics here, as much as you might like, but the reason most new cars are "silent" (they're not, they're actually quiteloud from the OUTSIDE) is because the most common type of engine, a 4 cylinder, has a terrible exhaust note.
That's ignorant on so many levels. Nonetheless, why don't you peruse the inventory of the most successful cars at your local car dealer, and tell me which of them has a "soundtrack to get noticed by". Many of the most powerful cars on the road - the ones that will stomp the pissy little testosterone-supplement that the kids drive - are absolutely silent at anything other than full throttle.
I do not think it means what you think it does.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
I had major issues with my 2000 TDI New Beetle. We had 3 disabling events in the 4th year of ownership. Mileage between 60K and 80K miles. Even though my other car (a 1994 Lexus ES300) has 240,000 miles on it and the New Beetle was totally paid off we felt compelled to dismiss the Beetle.
During its first 60,000 miles we were seeing about 750 miles per tank at about 45 miles per gallon. It was a wonderful thing. However, this does not overcome a basic unreliability of the car (coupled with the inability of the local VW service people in Orlando to deal with it). Consumers Reports showed the New Beetle as no longer having the expected reliability as they showed in 2000 when we first started considering it.
In addition to basic motor problems the car had cosmetic defects caused by normal wear -- namely the plastic covering on parts was disintegrating.
Your Mileage May Vary (I had to say that).
On another related subject.. what I really want is a hybrid car with a mode switch that lets me select how low I'm willing to let the battery go before it starts the gas motor. If I'm commuting the 7 miles from home to work and around town I'd like it to let the battery go down to 20% or so -- I'll plug it in when i get home, thank you. While I'm on the highway I'd prefer it to keep the charge a little higher. Perhaps under I-Don't-Know mode I'd like it to keep the battery fully charged. I test drove the Lexus RX400H and was dismayed to see that the gas motor ran all the time I was driving. What for?
.. Blub falls right in the middle of the abstractness continuum. -- Paul Graham
Better yet, stick solar water heaters on the roof... black panels with tubes of water or glycol pumped by solar powered pump to heat exchange system.. can be used for space heating at night and hot water at any time. Raising the temp of water is one of the most energy consuming things to do, so bumping up the base temp with solar can reduce a power bill by quite a bit.
The major selling point for any car is image. Thus these hybrids need more grunt in their exhaust.
Maybe, if you're sixteen. Me, I'm interested in 60mpg. I'd drive a neon pink VW bus if it gave me 60mpg.
And while we're talking image, do you think that the only viable image is some neon riced-out rollerskate with a thousand dollar exhaust system? I'd rather have the image of someone who gives a crap about our current oil problems rather than a guest extra from 2 Fast 2 Furious.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
But unless all trips are VERY short you won't see the expected increase in milage with the solar cells.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
At least not in Nevada.
In Nevada and other hot climates, 1MW is really only enough to power 750-800 homes, not 1000. This is due to the demands of the air conditioners turning on. For a stretch last summer, it was so hot in LV, a/c units were running 24/7 because the nighttime low was only in the low to mid 80s (F).
The Doormat
If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
In the bay area, some places charge for you to park.
I work two days a week in the Bay Area. I take the Amtrak from the Sacramento to Richmond, then the BART from Richmond to Oakland.
At work the parking is $13/day if you get there early. At the hotel, parking is $16 for the night.
Granted, it takes 3 hours instead of 2 each way, but I can read a book, walk over to the cafe car to get some coffee in the morning.
On the way back on the second day, I can have wine or beer.
I could neither read nor drink if I took my car.
But my commute is unusual. The time spent and economics depend on how
far your place of work or home is from the subway and whether or not they
charge for parking. Or how long it takes you to find a place to park.
It is definitely not worth taking a bus to avoid a 10 minute walk.
YMMV
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." -- Albert Einstein
Who can put a price on that?
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
If the U.S. military helps to reduce U.S. dependence on "foreign" oil (keep in mind that as much oil comes from up here in Canada than from all mideast countries combined), then there won't be any job for them any more, will there?
Somewhere, there's a general wishing on a star that this whole solar thing will just blow over.
Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
Ditto.
Those who stick a loud pipe on their car think that the people looking at them are impressed, but I bet they are thinking something else. I'd just like to see the police pulling more of them over. At least you get some warning that there's an idiot nearby.
I'd be embarrassed to drive a loud car, especially when coming home late at night. I don't think my neighbours would appreciate it.
Didn't someone sell a gadget that gave you 'big car' noise through your speakers? I'm sure it was linked to the rev counter and could simulate different engines.
As much as I agree with you about the concept of supply and demand, I still think the energy required to make, reprocess, and ship heavy glass would still use the same amount of petroleum if not more. Maybe we can go back to skin flasks?
your car is not who you are. it doesn't matter what it looks like it only takes you from point A to point B anything else is superficial. one other thing, stop complaining about gas prices if you are unwilling to give up a car that guzzles the stuff like water.
WTF?
Unless these cells are well protected you can bet they will break under hail.
Can't get to the sight so I don't know how these are protected if at all.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
you're correct regarding all gains from passive solar & riding a bike's better too.
bio-diesel's only a marginal idea IMHO: loads of particulate pollution, and modern western farming consumes massive amounts of petrochemicals. It's a good way to consume otherwise 'waste' oil, but I don't think it scales cleanly.
plug-in hybrids would be ideal: charge overnight with lower cost electrons yet have hybrid to get range and avoid slow charge problems.
Who here really thinks that gas is going to stay under 3 dollars? If you do contact me I have a nice bridge in New York I think you would be interested in.
The Camel has Spoken!
Wow. That "make your own biodiesel" site is cool.
But I'm not sure where you are getting the 10 cents per gallon from. I didn't read the entire site, but I did browse through it and I didn't see a cost estimate.
Is that based on getting used cooking oil for free from a restaraunt or fast-food joint?
MM
By including this sig, the copyright holders of this work or collection unreservedly place it in the public domain.
Yes, the economy cars do, but have you seen the new Lexus Hybrid? Can't complain about that!
The other thing that needs to be considered is what kind of driving you do.
... but if it's true, it could seriously impact the efficiency numbers in certain climates. A diesel engine sees some efficiency hit as a result of the A/C compressor, but its not that significant. (I measured the MPG of my VW with the compressor running and not, and could never get a good handle on what the change was. It was below the error caused by month-to-month differences in my driving style, anyway.) I don't know about anybody else, but I am not prepared to drive without air conditioning, at least until gas is well into the double-digit dollars per gallon.
A gasoline hybrid like the Prius gets its best mileage in city, stop-and-go driving, because of the regenerative braking.
A diesel engine gets its best milage while cruising on the highway at a basically constant speed, in the transmission's highest gear.
I used to drive a diesel VW and *loved* it. It was fun to drive (torquey as hell) and had excellent highway range, well in excess of 500 miles to the tank. However that mileage went into the toilet if I had to do a lot of stop and go driving. Still better than a conventional gasoline car for the same driving, but nothing like a hybrid.
I think there will be a place for both types of vehicles in the future, and which one is most efficient for you depends on the type of driving you do. For me, it's almost highway driving -- a hybrid wouldn't have much of an advantage.
The other thing to consider is the air conditioning and heating requirements. I have heard it said that the hybrids derive a lot of their fuel savings by being able to shut off the gas engine when it's not needed (in city driving), but that if you have the A/C running, it won't shut off because there's no way to run the compressor electrically. If anyone can verify this I'd be interested
What I would like to see is a diesel-electric hybrid: combine the best of both worlds.
I also wish that there was some sort of tax relief for diesel passenger vehicles on the diesel fuel taxes, which are really excessive. They're aimed at truckers, but they've had the side-effect of making diesel artifically expensive relative to gasoline, and hurting diesel car development in the US. This is too bad, because it's a technology that really has a lot of potential. There are better/alternative ways of taxing trucking than putting a tax on diesel fuel. At the very least, we should have some sort of rebate program to allow diesel passenger car owners to get back the difference in taxes they pay over an equivalent amount of gasoline (if not the amount of gasoline that they would have needed to buy to drive the same number of miles, which would be more fair).
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Actually, the largest solar network should in part be built on the top of Prius's. Why is it that when we think of clean electric power we think we have to build the BIGGEST solar energy park? Why waste the space. Every item we make something, we should make it as efficient as possible and use solar and wind power as much as is practicle. We shouldn't have to make a solar plant like a traditional power plant. That defeats a large portion of why we are going to solar power in the first place!
you're correct regarding all gains from passive solar & riding a bike's better too.
or walking - which is what I do, most days. unless it rains a lot or I'm late.
bio-diesel's only a marginal idea IMHO: loads of particulate pollution, and modern western farming consumes massive amounts of petrochemicals. It's a good way to consume otherwise 'waste' oil, but I don't think it scales cleanly.
Denmark get's most of it's energy from biodiesel - using different/better crops. Think that's what Bush was going on about, even if he is a fool.
plug-in hybrids would be ideal: charge overnight with lower cost electrons yet have hybrid to get range and avoid slow charge problems.
Yes. I think many hybrids are or will have a plug-in adaptation available, for those who live in areas where:
a. electricity is cheaper than gasoline (e.g. Pacific NW, most of world);
b. lots of cheap solar or hydro or wind that can fill up when not at peak use;
c. interruptable charging - some firms get cheaper interruptible electricity in bulk and can use it for car-charging too;
d. they have really really long extension cords connected to massively parallel hamster cages at HamsterWorld.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Heh. I live in a college town. The students would step in front of a jumbo jet with full power to the engines. They don't care who they walk in front of and because there are so many of them crossing the streets between classes, for the 10 minutes between classes traffic pretty much comes to a standstill.
;)
Besides, there's a difference between not wanting someone to hit me and not caring if I hit someone.
I'd always wondered what that bright shiny thing up in the sky was. It's nice they found a use for it. I found it a nuisance. It keeps waking me up when it shines through my window. I've also heard that solar energy can even be used from growing crops. I only thought it was good for burning ants or holes in paper with a magnifying lens. Who knew the Sun could be so useful?
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
for $2000 you can do the enviroment far more good in less flashy ways. How about:
1: Donating the money to the Nature Conservatory (the best in the biz)
2: Investing in home technologies such as better insulation or solar water heat. If you already have those, save a few more years and get yourself a geothermal unit.
3: Use the money to buy vehicle carbon credits and/or green electricity.
Of course, merely owning a Prius means you are ignoring the better environmental alternatives out there. Owning a Prius means you want to show that you care about the environment - not that you really do. Unfortunately, you can't really show your well-insulated attic off to your friends and coworkers.
I'm with you here.
I live in the Wash., DC metro area right now, which has one of the best public transportation systems of any city in the US (your Federal tax dollars at work). It also has one of the worst traffic and parking problems I've ever seen -- although I've heard that Atlanta and LA are also as bad.
I have a 'reverse commute' -- I live in the city and work in the 'burbs, and although this doesn't eliminate the traffic completely (not even close), it does put me outside the worst of it. Getting into the office at 0700 and leaving by 1500 or so also helps.
By car, getting to the office takes me about 25-35 minutes for just about 15 miles, and if you write off my car as a sunk cost (and ignore the resale value, I'm not interested in giving it up as I use it for more than just commuting) the expense is wear-and-tear and gasoline. It averages 20MPG almost exactly and even if gas is $3.00/gal, the gasoline cost works out to about $4.50 a day. Not insignificant, but 40% less than the cost of the metro. Factoring wear-and-tear is tougher, but I'm sure it's less than 40% of my gas costs.
But the biggest deal for me is that my 35-minute commute becomes an almost 90-minute ordeal if I wanted to take public transportation. I've tried every combination of bus/rail that I can think of, peak and off-peak times, and it means almost an extra hour out of my day for each leg. I'm not willing to sacrifice that.
Public transportation would have to get a lot better, and gas would have to get a lot more expensive, for it to become a viable commuting option for me. As it is right now, my biggest use of public transportation is to go bar-hopping in the evenings, since it means not having to drive home afterwards. For that alone, it's great to have. And perhaps if I had the 'traditional commute,' of driving from the suburbs in the morning to the city during the day and back to the 'burbs at night, the time savings would be there. But there are a lot of people who would be willing to use public transportation if the time and money savings worked, and right now they just don't.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
It may not mess with the weather system, but it sure does mess with the wildlife in the area where you install these wind turbines.
They're WAY bigger on the inside than they look from the outside. The amount of space inside one of those cars is truly amazing.
I also like the whole Prius+ hack, which makes them even more useful.
+++ATH0
No way what you want is a 4 cylinder offenhauser breathing through 3 inch headers and twin glass-pack mufflers, idling at 500 RPM
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Oh man...I'd not even thought about that one!! Hell, that's half the fun of a sports car!!
I've never owned a non-standard transmission car before....
Damn...some of the 'advances' of the future, sure take the fun out of things we enjoy now in 'primitive' life.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
No way what you want is a 4 cylinder offenhauser breathing through 3 inch headers and twin glass-pack mufflers, idling at 500 RPM
And this would be different from a piston speaker thumping the floor at 33.33 hz exactly how?
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
AFAICT, everywhere but the US diesel fuel is cheaper than petrol.
...this is. 62MW is being built in Portugal compared to the "supposed" worlds largest 18MW in Nevada.
No conventional public transport system can serve more than about 10% of the population, the physics just don't add up.
c -transport-cant-work.html
http://mrprecision.blogspot.com/2005/05/why-publi
Advocating conventional public transport as a car replacement is a waste of time.
Deleted
That's no frikin' moon!
-Dr. Evil
The 4 cylinder offenhauser is just mind-numbingly macho at 500 RPM, if you don't understand the difference, you probably never will. Maybe it's because i grew up listening to race cars with these engines screaming arround the track at indy.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Wow, you scared me there - you said solar energy was becoming more pervasive, and I was worried about a supernova or something. What a relief to find that solar energy is just as pervasive (and no MORE pervasive) than before - it's just that the USE of it is becoming more pervasive. :)
This space available.
Here's looking forward to cardboard SUVs made from bamboo fiber and hog spit!!
The 4 cylinder offenhauser is just mind-numbingly macho at 500 RPM, if you don't understand the difference, you probably never will. Maybe it's because i grew up listening to race cars with these engines screaming arround the track at indy.
And my point is, we can simulate ALL of that- the sound, the vibration, if you really wanted to, you could fix up some sort of software governor system between the batteries and the engine to require you to press a clutch and shift to change the RPM range of the foot pedal. I'm willing to bet that with enough work, you could simulate all of that "mind-numbingly macho" and then some in an electric vehicle....
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Really? Consider an average workday. You drive to work, park your car for 8 hours, and drive home. Your hybrid gets 60 mpg and let's say you live 10 miles from work. That's 20 miles round-trip, consuming about 1/3 gallon of gas. But your solar panel has given you 1/3 gallon of gasoline equivalent, so you get to work using (essentially) no gasoline at all. How is that not much gain?
A solar panel on top of a hybrid is really just a special case of the plug-in hybrid, which is touted by many as having great promise for exactly this reason. It won't help heavy drivers, but it should be great for commuters.
regarding AC on hybrids: The prius cannot run the AC compressor without running the internal combustion engine. In city driving this can HALF the fuel economy (~35mpg instead of ~70). This does not have to be the case for hybrids though. In a normal car, the compressor is driven by a belt connected to the crankshaft, which depends on the engine running. The other option is to have an electrical motor drive a compressor (it works for your refridgerator and home AC...) which would be completely independent of the drivetrain. It would require enough battery capacity to power the electric motor while the compressor is off, but most hybrids have /plenty/ of battery power.
You assume that one solar panel kit is going to last 200,000 miles (or anywhere near that) without needing replacement. I don't know how much you drive, but it would take me 10 years to put that much on a car.
-matthew
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
So, if you move these pumps to Europe or Canada, they become more efficient?
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
The 04 and newer Prius have an electric A/C compressor, so the A/C will continue with the engine off. Heating is still majorly from the engine, and in the winter the engine will run more often to keep you warm (but it will still cycle off). (I say majorly because their is a small electric heater, but I have no idea when it is used or how useful it really is)
Insert wit here.
It would be quite easy to locally produce and reprocess glass bottles. Then you would only have to ship the liquids in abd bottle it locally.
As for local distribution, hmmmm. I'd deliver bottles to local stores on a bike truck.
A blog about stuff.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius
"In contrast, the 2004 model introduced an all-electric compressor for cooling. This allowed more extensive use of the "stealth mode" (operation on electric motor only)."
They should make them sound like a Wraith Dart.
Yeah, but I'd rather have a car made out of replicators.
Never have to take it to the shop again... That is if it hasn't destroyed all life on the planet first.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
Umm, wear some pants. That way you only look wierd for being a grown guy on a little kid's bike, not a naked grown guy on a little kid's bike with his pecker tied up in the chain.
If the price of oil increases, then energy used in the manufacturing process will be obtained from other places due to the relative price differences. Solar and wind power are two such choices. Hell, even wood could be burned, if it was really necessary.
Even if solar power, etc., is prohibitively expensive now, it may someday become the cheapest source of energy. Thus it will be the source that is used.
So yes, it does take much energy to create glass. But someday that energy may be obtained from the sun, rather than from coal, purely for economic reasons.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
You make an interesting point though, and it really worries me particularly. I'm one of those guys who will probably never buy a new car. I will admit, I could probably afford one right now, but I guess I'm just too cheap. I just couldn't stand to take the loss on driving a new car off the lot. Most of the cars I buy are 5 - 8 years old and I usually get 100,000+ miles out of them. However, as soon as Hybrid's came out of really wanted to have one. But just as I would never buy a used car that will need an engine rebuild in a year, I would never want to buy a hybrid that's going to need a battery pack replacement.
/badpun
Hmm, maybe it doesn't pay to be cheap.
"It is also widely known that compared to other men, American men have by far the smallest penises in the world. They try to make up for their genital deficit by driving the biggest, nosiest vehicles they can debt themselves into."
Wow, you are both delusional and ironic at the same time. Funny thing is, the average American condom is larger than its European counterpart. First, the German government complained to the European Union about the size of American condoms being too large. Once the European Union finalized the standards EU wide for condoms, again the German government complained about the condoms being too large.
So much about your fantasy about deficient American penile size.
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
Natural rubber is great in some applications, but not in others. Neoprene is more chemically inert, thermally insulative, electically insulative, and wear resistant than natural rubber (it's more expensive than natural rubber, unfortunately). Polybutadiene is a possibility even without oil because you can make it from ethanol. Polyisoprene is very similar to natural rubber (natural rubber has small percentages of organic "junk" in with the isoprene).
It's time for Operation Crazy Plan.
As of 2003, there were 111 million households in the US. And, as of 2002, 405 million acres of forest land, with another 402 million acres of unclassified Federal land.
:p
So, that's 3.6 acres of forest per household, with possibly another 3.6 including Federal lands. But, keep in mind, Federal land is more than just forest, including desert, and is usually sub-par. And a large portion of US forest remaining is in Alaska -- not exactly near high population areas.
This could all be moot, of course, since heating costs vary with climate. But, at the least, it means the northeast, with the highest population density and high heating costs, is screwed (so much for New England self-sufficiency). The south will soon become overpopulated. Alaska is still the best $7.2 mil we've ever spent. And the midwest will be doing fine with grass pellets instead of wood
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
People tend to have an overly optimistic expectation about what alternative energies in their current state can do.
I got a Solio solar-powered device recharger for Xmas. (http://www.solio.com/)
The thing is a piece of crap. Well, it's a neat bit of technology, fun to show off to friends, but otherwise it's essentially useless. First of all, the thing requires 8 hours in full sunlight to fully charge the internal battery. Secondly, the instruction manual insists that the unit be placed in direct sunlight, unobstructed by glass. This essentially means that for the thing to operate at full efficiency it needs to be sitting outside.
Another problem is that if you live in the higher latitudes not only do you have shorter days, but you get reduced sunlight. The thing is rendered useless. I had the thing sitting out all day when I got it and I don't think it even was able to charge the battery halfway.
The device comes with a plug so that you can charge it the traditional way, but of course this defeats the purpose of the device.
It's like the hybrids. Right now they're more of a fashion statement then anything, especially the Prius. Notice how that car is far outselling any of the other hybrids. Not because it's any better, but because it looks cooler. It looks like a hybrid whereas the Civic hybrid looks like any other Civic and the Ford Escape hybrid looks like even less like an alternative fuel vehicle.
If people really cared about fuel efficiency they'd be clamoring for 1.2 liter gasoline or diesel cars like those available in Europe that easily get 60+ mpg without all the complicated crap the hybrids have. Of course Americans, in particular, don't want to feel like they're driving an anemic economy car. Enter the hybrids which offer the thrust of a larger engine with somewhat improved economy. As usual we need to deal with the stupidity of the consumer who cares more about fashion and ego than they care about anything else.
Hybrids are essentially an elaborate hackjob, an interim step to a truly alternative fuel vehicle. They get their fuel savings partly from the near regenerative braking system, but mainly from the fact that they're equiped with a small gasoline engine. The goal in driving those cars is to keep the gasoline engine off as long as possible. In all the ferver regarding avoiding fossil fuel vehicles I think people have neglected how polluting batteries and many of those electrical components can be.
I'm all for exploring alternative fuels. And I think their use should be encouraged, and perhaps forced in some cases. But we also need to be a bit realistic. There are far more practical and more cost-efficient options available.
Sorry guys - the plural of Prius is still Prius (many Japaneese words are the same both singular and plural).
$ man woman *
-bash:
This is an idea I've had for years, and one that was even considered on a European level back in the early 90's. The idea was to pump sea water from the mediterranean to the sahara and use solar power, either through photovoltaic panels, or through a more robust sunlight focussing mirror farm.
The sahara is pretty big and provides plenty of unused area.
I think the idea was mainly dropped for political reasons back then in that it owuld be the same politically instable areas providing the hydrogen as now provide oil.
I'm European (Portuguese) and though France would not be my favorite country to live, I don't have any problem with french people -- I can't possibly think of what you mean. Anyway, I actually find their accent quite sexy for women. :P And France are not of the countries that have the higher usage of bikes: look at The Netherlands, Germany or Denmark for that.
My worst enemy gave me a copy of Windows for Christmas.
I've never owned a non-standard transmission car before....
Well, I suppose you could always simulate it in software- a clutch pedal that "disengages" the current setting, move the stick to a new setting, let up the clutch, and the power range of your accelerator changes....complete with an OD setting for people who don't want to bother...kind of like the autostick on a Nash Rambler....
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
I'm sorry that it took me a few days!
Wikileaks, no DNS