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KDE 4 Screenshots

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on from the eye-candy dept.

carlmenezes writes "Screenshots of the upcoming and much talked about KDE 4 have appeared at Planet Diaz. They include screenshots of the control panel, system tray, tabbed views, music and mail views, plus a mockup or two. I don't know what the Gnome guys are up to, but KDE is starting to look seriously cool."

458 comments

  1. firsto by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    first stop?

  2. second by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    hello

  3. More than just a mockup or two by strider44 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Can anyone tell if there are any actual screenshots in that bunch? I'm having a bit of trouble finding them.

    1. Re:More than just a mockup or two by novus+ordo · · Score: 1

      Yeah I saw them for all of 2 seconds...time it takes for 10 million people to click a link.

      --
      "You're everywhere. You're omnivorous."
    2. Re:More than just a mockup or two by Bwian_of_Nazareth · · Score: 5, Informative

      If it is all mock-ups it is because there is no such this as KDE 4.0. Work on KDE 4.0 is currently happening on library level, porting to QT4 is still under way. There won't be KDE4 any time soon. The UI work (desing, proof-of-concepts) is happening in parallel to the library development but does not yet constitute part of what could be called KDE4.

    3. Re:More than just a mockup or two by vdboor · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, it seams some people are creating a hype with mockups from KDE4 Brainstorm at kde-look.

      --
      The best way to accelerate a windows server is by 9.81 m/s2 ;-)
  4. That's all well and good... by John+Nowak · · Score: -1, Flamebait

    But does anyone have info about usability improvements? KDE is currently a usability nightmare from my perspective. I personally use wmii, which is a fantastic minimal window manager, but for some things a full desktop environment is nice. I currently recommend Gnome to people for such a role without hesitation because, at least out of the box, KDE is horrific.

    1. Re:That's all well and good... by Bwian_of_Nazareth · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Can you please be more specific? I have been using KDE for what is now more than 8 years and I don't have any (major) usability issues with it. Also, are you really talking about KDE (the desktop suite) or about KWin. The latter seems more likely as you are comparing it to a window manager. Well, surprise there, you can use KDE with any window manager you chose, you are not limited to KWin.

    2. Re:That's all well and good... by John+Nowak · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      I'm talking about the complete environment, which is why I was comparing it to Gnome. KDE has more issues than I can get into right now, but if that's all you've been using for eight years, you probably don't see them. I think they're glaringly obvious if looked at from a non-KDE user perspective.

      I'm posting because I'm genuinely interested in what is being done for the sake of usability. I do not wish to debate what the current problem are... I don't have time for that right now. :-)

    3. Re:That's all well and good... by vga_init · · Score: 4, Interesting
      For me it's always been the exact opposite. Back in the day, when KDE and GNOME were budding projects, it just seemed to me that GNOME "felt" right. It seemed to have the right level of flexibility, it was relatively good looking, and gave me a satisfied, functional feeling.

      Lately times have been changing.

      I still think GNOME is ahead in terms of "look and feel." KDE is usually touted as being eye candy, but you just can't convince me that GNOME doesn't look better. GNOME still feels comfortable to me, so what about it drove me to use KDE, my preferred desktop at the moment?

      Functionality. Sometimes I get sick of looking at KDE, but I keep on using it because it does everything I like. I get to have windows that snap together as I resize them, a set of graphical tools that can actually be configured, a file manager that isn't almost useless, etc.

      My largest complaint against GNOME right now is their philosophy that more features means less usability. Even if that were true, I don't see how that justifies dropping features to improve usability. Give me something slightly more challenging to use but does everything that I want.

    4. Re:That's all well and good... by vga_init · · Score: 1
      KDE has more issues than I can get into right now

      The parent asked for you to be specific...You could have saved a whole lot time on your post if you just wrote one word: "No." :)

    5. Re:That's all well and good... by zoips · · Score: 1

      It's hard to know if there is anything being done about what you consider usability problems if you refuse to describe even one of these problems. People are supposed to divine what you percieve to be a problem?

    6. Re:That's all well and good... by John+Nowak · · Score: 1

      FWIW, the current Gnome file manager is very usable. Just tick the box so it uses the browser and not the spatial mode. The browser is minimal, but is has all of the necessary features and works very well. As for configuration, both Gnome and KDE have the critical options in place. KDE just has a lot more that seem useless to me (focus under mouse, focus follows mouse, focus strictly follows mouse, etc). KDE also has lots of insane UI issues, where the taskbar preferences you get from right-clicking the taskbar aren't *exactly* the same as the ones you get when picking it from the "control panel", etc. It just doesn't feel polished at all. To be honest, it is fundamentally *bad*, and needs a complete redesign on the UI level.

    7. Re:That's all well and good... by John+Nowak · · Score: 1

      Of course not, but a list of things being done to address usability issues is what I'm looking for. It is okay if they're not *my* usability issues. I don't need or want a point by point rebuttal to my complains... I just want some inside information on what is to come.

    8. Re:That's all well and good... by Bwian_of_Nazareth · · Score: 1

      Well, you mentioned wmii as your alternative. :-)

      During that 8 years, I have also used Gnome and Windows 95 to XP (at work). I always come back to my KDE which I find most productive.

      Anyway, I don't want to go into a discussion of what KDE does or does not. I reacted because there are always loads of people who think KDE is a window manager (I now see you are not one of them) and then compare it to some obscure window manager (no offense meant) which might be super and lean but cannot be utilised by KDE (it would not suit its target audience).

      Let me reassure you that there is a lot of work being currently done to address usability/stability/speed. AFAIK current status is that there is no KDE4, KDE3.5 is being ported to QT4, refactored, cleaned up... all on kdelibs level. In parallel people are preparing the interface, piling up ideas but KDE is far from reaching 4.0.

    9. Re:That's all well and good... by John+Nowak · · Score: 1

      For the record, I'm very aware of what KDE is. I didn't mean to compare it to wmii -- I was saying sometimes I want a simple window manager, and sometimes I want a full environment (Gnome, KDE).

      Wmii is great though. Try it. :-)

    10. Re:That's all well and good... by vga_init · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I just pine away for the old GNOME where apps came with a healthy set of options instead of a insufficient few that don't exactly represent the settings I want or need. The configuration editing tool helped me to unearth a lot of hidden settings, and it lead me to becoming slightly more satisfied, but it didn't exactly do everything that I wanted.

      As for things like "focus follows mouse" and the like, I used to be an avid user of features like that. Not in KDE, but in GNOME and every other window manager. They can be quite useful, but I kind of got over that and settled into "click to focus." But whatever other people prefer is cool with me.

      I think nautilus is pretty good, but for some reason I'm not very fond of using it. It seems to get in my way, and I don't like that feeling, but I do believe you when you say that I can change settings to fix it for my tastes. Of course, I still maintain that konqueror is a fine file manager in its own right.

      Also, I find that you complaint about the configuration menus and whatnot valid. KDE takes a bit of customization, but I usually just sit down with a new install and go through the control panel until I'm satisfied. Most users shouldn't have to do this. So far the way the options are grouped together and how they present themselves in the UI is a bit of a mess. The latest incarnation of control panel suits my tastes less than the original idea, but hopefully they sort that out.

    11. Re:That's all well and good... by 10Ghz · · Score: 1
      But does anyone have info about usability improvements?


      Yes.
      --
      Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
    12. Re:That's all well and good... by John+Nowak · · Score: 1

      FWIW, I'm fine with an option for focus follows mouse. But what is focus strictly follows mouse? What is focus under mouse? There is no description of any kind, and it seems rather superfluous. Perhaps I'm missing something.

    13. Re:That's all well and good... by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Informative

      KDE has more issues than I can get into right now

      The parent asked for you to be specific...You could have saved a whole lot time on your post if you just wrote one word: "No." :)

      How about the stupid kwallet and multiple email accounts? Add some account settings and kwallet doesn't know about it because you've closed it? Oops, can't get email for that account. Quit kwallet - can't get email for all the accounts. AND the passwords are all permanently gone. Nice "feature."

      Or in kontact - try to change the folders so that it saves mail to another folder with the same name but somewhere else in the folder hierarchy - for example, instead if /accountname/inbox/sucker to /inbox/accountname, and the changes take effect .... sort of ... (if you don't delete the previous folder, you now end up with multiple copies of your mail ... and what's worse, those copies both end up in the same folder ... which is either the old one or the new one, at random.

      Not as bad as the showstopper in ThunderTurd - manually select part of a message to quote, and if the quote goes all the way to the last character, and you do a Ctl+C for copy, it quits. Cute.

      Or the KDE su dialog - checking the "keep password" box doesn't.

      Or how, when you select one multi-screen method (stretch across screens) and try to change it to something else (dual screens) it craps out, over and over, for weeks at a time. Finally, give up, use gnome, check KDE every few weeks ... nope, still crapped ut, nope, nope ... hey it "fixed itself". Guess another bug got scotched.

      These aren't big problems in the scheme of things, since we have options (unlike certain other people), and KDE has its uses. But you did ask for specifics ... so here are a few.

      The real problem is it's slow ... even in comparison to Gnome.

    14. Re:That's all well and good... by arkhan_jg · · Score: 2, Informative

      I believe it's actually an old unix standard, rather a KDE specific thing. As I understand it, the implementation is as follows:

      focus follows mouse - window focus is whichever window the mouse touched last, but can be 'stolen' by explicit actions such as opening new windows, popups etc (if you launch a shortcut etc)
      focus under mouse - window focus is whichever window the mouse touched last, and cannot be stolen.
      focus strictly under mouse - window focus is whichever window the mouse is hovering over, and if the mouse is not touching a window, no window has focus.

      --
      Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
    15. Re:That's all well and good... by m50d · · Score: 1
      Just tick the box so it uses the browser and not the spatial mode.

      But in the first release after the switch, they wouldn't even give you that tickbox.

      The browser is minimal,

      Erm, no it isn't. It's just as slow and bloated as the KDE one.

      KDE just has a lot more that seem useless to me (focus under mouse, focus follows mouse, focus strictly follows mouse, etc).

      Personally I couldn't live without the ability to switch to focus under mouse. There are options that seem useless to me, but I'm sure they're vital to others. I'd rather have ten options I'm only going to use one of than not have the option I want.

      KDE also has lots of insane UI issues, where the taskbar preferences you get from right-clicking the taskbar aren't *exactly* the same as the ones you get when picking it from the "control panel", etc.

      I've never experienced anything like this.

      --
      I am trolling
    16. Re:That's all well and good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like kde behavior on kde the best but change some colors to keramic white. The K application with a SERIOUS issue now is K3B . The cdrdao on some distributions does not burn data dvd+rw 's that others can read while drawing data from my vfat ie w98 partition . Some distributions are shipping final versions where the k3b does not tell you this feature is missing - look for older versions with the burn button in the lower left corner - the older versions are good . And this problem keeps showing up on newer distributions .

    17. Re:That's all well and good... by arkhan_jg · · Score: 1

      FWIW, focus follows mouse, focus under mouse are available under KDE, in Control Panel, Window Behavour, Focus. Sorry if you already know that, but your post was a little unclear as to whether you just did't use it KDE, or didn't think KDE had it....

      I'm with you on KDE. Personally, konqueror is the 'killer app' for me; being able to have an sftp tab, samba share, local file and several browser tabs open in one window really rocks, and something I really miss in my day job on Windows.
      Should be interesting to see what happens with KDE 4, i believe tidying up the control panel and making it a bit more sane (without removing functionality) is a primary goal.

      --
      Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
    18. Re:That's all well and good... by Saeger · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I know GNOME's UI philosophy is Keep It Simple (Stupid), but IMO it's *too* simple, which is why I stick with the crystal Kitchen-sink DE (aka: KDE).

      It's been said before, but Gnome would do well to at least make available easy access to more advanced tweakability via an "expert" mode toggle (which is always-on in KDE).

      e.g. To make best use of screen realestate in KDE, I set my kicker panel to "allow other windows to cover it", and to "raise when the pointer hits the bottom of the screen" -- something which isn't even possible in Gnome, afaik.

      --
      Power to the Peaceful
    19. Re:That's all well and good... by cyclop · · Score: 1

      The cdrdao on some distributions does not burn data dvd+rw 's that others can read while drawing data from my vfat ie w98 partition .

      eh? My mother language is not English, so please can you explain? Do you mean something like "if I burn a data dvd+rw with data read from a vfat partition, the resulting dvd+rw won't be readable by other operating systems?"

      And, is it a K3b or a cdrdao issue?

      --
      -- Patent no.123456: A way to personalize /. comments with a sig attached to the end.
    20. Re:That's all well and good... by drgonzo59 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I would have to agree with you. I have been using a variety of desktops and WMs, starting from FVWM, then XFCE, Blackbox, KDE, and now GNOME. KDE was great at first as it was prettier with more eye bling and such but all that got old and thouse annoying seemingly small bugs eventually got to me and I just ended up using GNOME.

      Don't get me wrong I don't hate KDE, and I don't personally care what is more open or that one has a more restrictive license or whatnot, all I care is to get my job done. One of the biggest problems that prevented me to get the job done, was believe or not, too many options. I tried once to change some window behavior and it took me such a long time to find the right submenu in the Kontrol and try to sift through help files that I eventually gave up. That happened other times with KDE itself and/or other KDE application. According to UI best practices, the configuration options should be kept at minimum. There is a trade-off between configuration power and usability.

      Actually if you ask me, I think that the best/more functional/easier to learn interface is that of Mac OS X. Apple has invested more into the usability research than any other company and it payed off. I think it is mainly because of it, that it managed to sell underpowered and overpriced machines (when compared MFlop for MFlop and $ for $) for quite a long time now. On the Linux desktop side, I think GNOME is closer conceptually (not visually perhaps) to OS X than KDE is, and that I why I choose GNOME.

    21. Re:That's all well and good... by Dasch · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think the fact that KDE even exists means that Gnome shouldn't try to be more "advanced" (bloated).

      So people like the advanced options, the glimmer and the numerous widgets. Those people pick KDE. Some people just a basic, day-to-day desktop environment. Those people pick Gnome.

      The availability of both seems ideal to me.

    22. Re:That's all well and good... by drgonzo59 · · Score: 1
      I had the same problem. I think it is a K3b issue. K3b silently decided to change the file names that were too long, the space was turned into underscore, the name itself was truncted and an enumeraion was added at the end. I had about 80 .rar files that had to be named in a certain way for the archive to de-compress and K3b/cdrdao screwed it up without any warning or anything. Call me crazy, but if my application is going to change the users files in such a why, I would feel the need to let the user know beforehand. Apparently it is related to which ISO level you chose and such. The problem is that there are too many options I need to go through just to burn a CD. I hated the simple ("click to burn") menu of Nautilus on GNOME but now would use only that until I can take enough time to learn about ISO, UDF, DAO, TAO, UltraBuffers and other stuff like that.

      As many have said, I think simpler is better. Ideally I would like to have a switch to switch to expert mode if I need to, but for now I'll just stick with GNOME. Adding more visual bling (WOW transparent rotated 3d windows with alpha channels and SVG and stuff and stuff) to KDE is not going to make it more appealing to me personally.

    23. Re:That's all well and good... by segedunum · · Score: 1

      The real problem is it's slow ... even in comparison to Gnome.

      I might have took you somewhat seriously. Until you came up with this :-).

    24. Re:That's all well and good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

      Spoken like a true Steven "Rim" Jobs' cock-gobbling-whore and a Bruce "Cunt" Perens ass-slave.

      Nice try, fanboi!

    25. Re:That's all well and good... by Curtman · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      "The real problem is it's slow"

      No, I think the real problem, is all those stupid sound effects. Enough with that already. They suck.

    26. Re:That's all well and good... by aichpvee · · Score: 1

      At least you can turn them off. But there isn't ANY way to turn off the idiotic gnome file dialogs, even when running gtk apps in another window manager.

      --
      The Farewell Tour II
    27. Re:That's all well and good... by CowboyBob500 · · Score: 1

      I think you need to turn on the Joliet file settings...

      Bob

      --
      Listen to my latest album here
    28. Re:That's all well and good... by nutshell42 · · Score: 1
      But what is focus strictly follows mouse? What is focus under mouse? There is no description of any kind, and it seems rather superfluous. Perhaps I'm missing something.

      You're missing Shift+F1 the universal way to get context sensitive help in KDE. At least in 3.5 the resulting tooltip should answer all your questions =)

      --
      Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
    29. Re:That's all well and good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For me to hear the sound effects, I'd have to first bother to configure aRTS. Frankly, I just can't be fucking arsed; where are all the kick ass media players for KDE that need aRTS? There arn't any. XMMS, mplayer and RealPlayer can all use ALSA directly, so bollocks to mucking about with yet another daemon.

      2006: The year of Linux on the desktop! *cough*

    30. Re:That's all well and good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I might have took you somewhat seriously. Until you came up with this :-)."

      Actually, his comment is quite accurate. KDE is much slower than Gnome on every system I've ever tried it on. I know this may come as a shock, but it's the most bloated and cluttered window manager around by far. Even the developers have admitted that the interface is far too cluttered and they've made that a prime focus for KDE 4.

      Have you ever even looked at the KDE codebase and compared it to that of Gnome? Or are you just making assumptions based on what a small subset of KDE developers have told you? I would bet the latter.

    31. Re:That's all well and good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I want my features to be clean and easy to use though...

    32. Re:That's all well and good... by diegocgteleline.es · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The real problem is it's slow ... even in comparison to Gnome.

      I just don't believe that anymore. Gnome has become a memory and CPU pig: There're reasons why gnome 2.13 has so many performance improvements. KDE used to be a memory pig, but then gnome catched up and their memory usage went trough the roof. By the way, porting applications to QT4 (no functionality) improves the memory usage percentages with double-digit numbers, so there's a chance that KDE 4 eats less memory

      The top post also asked "I don't know what the Gnome guys are up to". I wish to know that aswell. KDE is actively developing KDE 4 but Gnome 3 doesn't exist at all today. Some Gnome developers seem to think that gnome 3 shouldn't be developed because gnome 2 is already feature complete and that doing small improvements which don't break compatibility it's a beter option. That sounds good, but I'd say it looks scary: KDE people is actively developing a KDE version which will rock in many ways and Gnome doesn't seem to have nothing to compete against it, except that Fedora now includes mono and more C# apps can be developed. Noveel seem to be the one place where cool things are being done with gnome.

    33. Re:That's all well and good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This terminology seems a bit confusing to me, especially the difference between "follows" and "strictly follows"

    34. Re:That's all well and good... by segedunum · · Score: 1

      Actually, his comment is quite accurate. KDE is much slower than Gnome on every system I've ever tried it on.

      ROTFL.

      I know this may come as a shock, but it's the most bloated and cluttered window manager around by far. Even the developers have admitted that the interface is far too cluttered and they've made that a prime focus for KDE 4.

      And how is that related to speed? That's an accusation that is always levelled from Gnome people every single time. Ordinary users (without a desktop preference) don't care about accusations of clutter, even when they use both. They just simply like KDE. Can it be improved? Yes, of course. Goodness, I really wonder what you're going to have to complain about with KDE in the future.

      Have you ever even looked at the KDE codebase and compared it to that of Gnome?

      Hmmm, and how would you get an idea of speed of the desktops from the codebases themselves, apart from the fact that KDE actually has an infrastructure and architecturally is much neater? It actually has an architecture.

    35. Re:That's all well and good... by dbIII · · Score: 1
      and you do a Ctl+C for copy, it quits. Cute.
      This is one of the disadvantages of trying to pretend it's an MS Windows system and not X windows on whatever platform. People hit inconsistant behaviours when they use apps that don't bother to pretend - and then they would go looking for the C: drive if every app did get it right so you can't win.

      When on X use the middle mouse button.

      Each environment has problems - gconf and the single user non-networked mentality behind it (try moving your home directory guys - no window manager on startup and no way to edit the settings to get it back) gets me with gnome, but people are working on fixing that, as with problems in KDE.

      Most people don't know they can use a different window manager (fluxbox, enlightenment etc) with gnome and KDE apps and panels -that can fix a lot of the speed problems.

    36. Re:That's all well and good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget this one: It's a doozy too... Can't display Big5 and GB characters sets at the same time.

      This means you can't read chinese from the mainland and HK or TW with the same settings. Want to read you aunts blog in TW in Big5 change the settings, then want to read the latest economic news from the PRC and you have to go in twidle your settings back. This is especially VERY annoying when you are getting emails from different people who use the different encodings.

      Apparently this is a big in QT because someone just decided that "Chinese" was all the same so having Big5 selected as your preference automatically wipes out GB and vice versa. I don't remember the exact detail since I haven't used KDE in a long time due to this bug, and yes I check occasionally to see if it's fixed (it isn't) so I'm stuck with gnome. Gnome isn't so fantastic but since I can actually read my email with it that means it's what I'm going to use.

    37. Re:That's all well and good... by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      When on X use the middle mouse button.

      I hate using the mouse. Period. Mice are for wimps (pardon the pun :-)

    38. Re:That's all well and good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

      "Hmmm, and how would you get an idea of speed of the desktops from the codebases themselves"

      Ok, you're clearly not a professional programmer. Yes, the KDE architecture is neater, however more often than not a cleaner OO architecture comes with a significant performance penalty. The best design is most often nowhere near the fastest. Go learn to program and then compare the two code bases. While the KDE code base is much nicer in terms of a clean OO paradigm, it's very obvious that it will consume more memory and run slightly slower. Not that it even really matters considering the power of todays computers.

      Good coders can get an approximation of performance by looking at the code base, this is not even an issue worth being discussed. I think both KDE and Gnome run great, however I think it's clear that KDE offers a cleaner interface with the API (this is one reason for the abundance of configuration options in KDE) and suffers a small performance penalty for its superior architecture.

    39. Re:That's all well and good... by Shawn+is+an+Asshole · · Score: 1

      The real problem is it's slow ... even in comparison to Gnome.

      I'm not sure about that. I used KDE heavily up until the 3.5 release (I now use Enlightenment DR17 + Gnome), but KDE has always felt so much faster. Windows seem to open faster, when I hit Alt-F2 the dialog opens instantly, when I click a menu I don't have to watch it draw itself, etc. I kept trying Gnome but always ended up frustrated with it until I replaced Metacity with Enlightenment (before switching to Gnome I was using just Enlightenment). Using the Gnome parts still feel sluggish, though (OpenSUSE 10 and Fedora Core 4).

      --
      "It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
    40. Re:That's all well and good... by CaptnMArk · · Score: 1

      Strictly follows means that window under mouse is always focused, in other words, you cannot use the keyboard to change focus at all (aside from warping the pointer, which IMO sucks since the physical mouse cannot be moved)
      This is the classic mwm, fvwm behavior.

      A better way is to change the focus only when the mouse actually moves to another window. This allows you to use the keyboard normally.

      (I use click-to-focus only)

    41. Re:That's all well and good... by Shawn+is+an+Asshole · · Score: 1

      Agreed. At least it's easy to fix, though:

      Open Kcontrol, expand "Sound and Multimedia", click on "System Notifications", click the "Apply to all applications" checkbox, and click on the "Turn Off All" button. Problem solved. Or just kill the PoS Arts.

      --
      "It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
    42. Re:That's all well and good... by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      I used KDE for years before the dual-monitor fiasco ... switched to Gnome, and was surprised that I can have a ton of stuff open and it works much better than KDE did ... heck, I even stopped ranting against the UI in the GIMP and the "backwards" placement of the dialg box buttons ...

      The BIGGEST change when switching to Gnome - I no longer have to close firefox every 6 hours or so to reclaim memory. Now I'm not knocking KDE - even with its weirdnes, I' still using Kmail to poll 11 email accounts every few minutes.

    43. Re:That's all well and good... by Shawn+is+an+Asshole · · Score: 1

      where are all the kick ass media players for KDE that need aRTS?

      amaroK. Try it, it is awesome. I personally cannot stand using Arts. The good thing is that amaroK has different output plugins, including Helix, GStreamer, and Xine (the best, IMHO).

      --
      "It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
    44. Re:That's all well and good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does garbage like this get modded up? Anyone that answers a comment with virtually no more substance than "ROTFL" deserves to be modded down into oblivion. And if you can't get an idea of the performance of a code base by looking at the source code you clearly aren't a very good programmer.

      "ROTFL" can basically be translated into "I'm a retard". Which, by looking at the parent posters comment history, seems to hold true.

    45. Re:That's all well and good... by Uber+Banker · · Score: 1

      This means you can't read chinese from the mainland and HK or TW with the same settings. Want to read you aunts blog in TW in Big5 change the settings, then want to read the latest economic news from the PRC and you have to go in twidle your settings back.

      Not having those problems myself. Using Mandriva LE2005 I can browse various webpages with various encodings from the PRC, HK and Taiwan. Didn't configure it manually, so can't really comment on how that came to be. Input is via SCIM (can input simplified and traditional characters over a variety of input methods, including 'Cantonese pinyin' which seems quite a bizarre Romanisation based on an outdated accent, but that is a little OT). Infact the main reason I'm now using Mandriva is because Ubuntu 5.10 screwed up Chinese input (SCIM) very very badly (crashing Symantic, file browsers, etc), it only works in 5.04 unless extreme pains are taken in the 5.10 install. KDE was a pain on the Ubuntu release but it works fine on my computer with Mandriva. KDE on Mandriva is also considerably more responsive than GNOME was on Ubuntu, but this pulls in many many different factors.

      How about trying the latest 'Mandriva live' CD?

    46. Re:That's all well and good... by The+Snowman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think you have some good points, in fact, it reminds me of a Slashdot article a while back that basically said that the more complex an interface is, the more intimidating it is to most people. If you have a zillion widgets to click and boxes to look at, people tend to get lost and give up. In the comments of that article, several people made good points. For example, putting common tasks in the front and hiding the advanced stuff in another tab or window with a button to access it.

      I think one of the key issues surrounding KDE is choice: you choose to run KDE, or you choose not to. Unix-based systems give the user/admin the choice of which window manager to run. Don't like KDE? Try a different one. Hell, you can even contact the KDE team, report bugs, and give feedback. While most large OSS project teams are busy as hell and aren't always the most receptive to outside communication, they are a lot more receptive than, say, Microsoft. Think it's too damn complex? Give constructive criticism to the KDE team. The other beauty of it is that besides the KDE core, a lot of "KDE" applications are third-party software that is just written for KDE and follows a specific set of guidelines. Odds are for some of the problems people have, they can contact a lone developer who has less to worry about and can dedicate more time to each problem.

      --
      24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
    47. Re:That's all well and good... by jav1231 · · Score: 1

      Did KDE ever fix their menu editor? This was always my problem with KDE. It just didn't work for almost everything I needed. That and most distro's tendency to do half-assed QA on their KDE builds really hurt KDE. I like KDE, certainly over Gnome, but when companies like Novell leave menuitems that do nothing on the default install it leaves much to be desired.

    48. Re:That's all well and good... by AvitarX · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I know I post this every time someone touts lack of options in OS X making it easier to use, but I think it's worth mentioning. In OS X you cannot control mouse speed and accelerqation independantly. This makes using a touch pad on their laptop very difficult, bucause my finger does not move at a steady rate. What this does to me is cause the mouse to move real slow (low acceleration) or jerk between reasonable and fast (high acceleration). Mac users seem to think that eliminatin choices that many computer users have taken for granted for a decade accually makes the computers easier to use, but it is just not true. By completly hiding that functionality away and not even having an advanced option, it makes the computer a nightmare.

      This may be a nit, but it is a bigger problem then window behavier (I am sure more non-power users adjust the mouse than the behavier).

      The thing I like about KDE is that it forces you to copy, link, or move with every drag and drop. The choosing which to do behind the scenes is semi-random to the average person.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    49. Re:That's all well and good... by 10Ghz · · Score: 2, Informative
      How about the stupid kwallet and multiple email accounts? Add some account settings and kwallet doesn't know about it because you've closed it? Oops, can't get email for that account. Quit kwallet - can't get email for all the accounts. AND the passwords are all permanently gone. Nice "feature."


      I have never had that problem. Kwallet is happily running in the system-tray, managing my passwords and such. And I have never had any problems with it.

      Or in kontact - try to change the folders so that it saves mail to another folder with the same name but somewhere else in the folder hierarchy - for example, instead if /accountname/inbox/sucker to /inbox/accountname, and the changes take effect .... sort of ... (if you don't delete the previous folder, you now end up with multiple copies of your mail ... and what's worse, those copies both end up in the same folder ... which is either the old one or the new one, at random.


      Haven't tried to do something like that, so I can't comment. But you DO know that you can use some other mail-client with KDE? Or do you think that if some app in KDE has some esoteric problem, it means that KDE as a whole sucks?

      Or the KDE su dialog - checking the "keep password" box doesn't.


      Have you filed a bug-report?

      The real problem is it's slow ... even in comparison to Gnome.


      Huh? each release as been faster than the one before it. On my box, startup takes few seconds, apps appear in fraction of a second, and everything is nice and fast. Memory-consumption is pretty low as well. Now, I have a somewhat fast machine (A64 3200+), but I have used it on slower machines as well (800Mhz Duron, 400-500Mhz K6) and it worked just fine there as well.

      I did do a comparison to GNOME last year. And the speed was more or less the same. IIRC, KDE started up 1-2 seconds faster, and that was the only major difference between them. Other things (apps etc.) were more or less the same.
      --
      Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
    50. Re:That's all well and good... by IdleTime · · Score: 1

      Wmii is currently a usability nightmare from my perspective.

      Not often I see something as crappy as wmii. Good luck!

      --
      If you mod me down, I *will* introduce you to my sister!
    51. Re:That's all well and good... by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      But is right clicking the taskbar supposed to give you the same preferences? Indeed, should right cling the task bar give you preferences at all? On my KDE setup, right clinking the taskbar allows me to add and/or remove applications. Should that be done in the Control Center? Also, right clicking the taskbar, clicking Configure Panel, and then clicking the taskbar icon gives me the same window as Control Center -> Desktop -> taskbar.

    52. Re:That's all well and good... by Rei · · Score: 1

      At least you can be confident that with KDE 4, your crashes will look very pretty.

      --
      "/etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit is a gimp plugin and must be run by the gimp in order to be used."
    53. Re:That's all well and good... by Fordiman · · Score: 1

      Wow, this is weird.

      I like arTs. and dcop. and KDE. They're designed with some sense of... well, sense.

      Seriously, for applications written for KDE, KDE is fast (even on my PoS 500MHz Dell). The file dialogs actually work well (unlike GTK's), the virtualized filesystem is so nice that its something I'd like to be ported to bash's userspace (ie: ftp://, smb://, media://, etc ), Konqueror is crap compared to Firefox, but make the world think it's Safari and it works with anything Safari works with (not to mention, I like to use KMozilla rather than KHTML).

      Yeah. It's cluttered. So either clean out your K Menu or start with a distro that has only the essentials (like Slax).

      By the way, what's KWallet? I never installed anything like that.

      --
      110100 1101000 1101000 1100110 0 1101111 1101000 1100011 1
    54. Re:That's all well and good... by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1

      What's the problem with them? Granted, they still need some work (my biggest beef is the difference between typing '/' into the window, and any other character (like '~')), but I don't find them to be *that* bad, and I have some pretty complex directory structures in my homedir, too.

      --
      http://outcampaign.org/
    55. Re:That's all well and good... by pembo13 · · Score: 1

      Just to add my 2 cents. I started using KDE fulltime becuase of home slow gnome ran for me at the time.

      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    56. Re:That's all well and good... by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > I just pine away for the old GNOME

      Indeed. If I could make Gnome 1.4 my desktop but still have the Gnome2 libraries installed for apps that require them, and expect everything to _work_ with that setup, that is what I would be using. Since 1.4, every successive version of Gnome is objectively worse than the one before, in terms of features. As for "usability", that's much more subjective, and as a high-end power user I find that my needs are *very* different from those of the kind of low-end end-user that current Gnome versions seem to be targetting.

      For all that, I still use Gnome, because it still (for now, anyway) has the one killer feature it has always had that led me to prefer Gnome over KDE in the first place (back when both of them used Netscape 4 as their default browser): panel drawers. I consider this to be an essential feature, because on the one hand there's not room on one panel for all the launchers that I want, but on the other hand it's *not* acceptable to have to dig through 3-5 levels of menus for things that I use on anything resembling a regular basis, and it's *certainly* not acceptable to have to minimize all my windows and use desktop icons as launchers. As far as I'm concerned, panel drawers are the greatest thing since tab completion, and any system that doesn't have them is just not an option.

      I *would* switch to KDE if it got panel drawers, because in every other respect I *hate* the direction Gnome has been going since 2.0.

      > As for things like "focus follows mouse" and the like

      Focus follows mouse is terribly inconvenient for those of us who are heavy keyboard users. Frequently we just want the mouse pointer _out of the way_ for extended periods of time. I personally tend to park it in one corner of the screen and just leave it there for a while. I couldn't do that if I had "focus follows mouse" turned on.

      However, it doesn't bother me that "focus follows mouse" is an option. Frankly, it wouldn't bother me even if it were the default. (Defaults are for end-users. Power users go systematically through the options when we set the system up, then we promptly forget what the defaults even were in the first place, because we know how *we* want the system to behave.) With that said, I don't think traditional "focus follows mouse" would be a very good default, because it would likely confuse the everliving bejeebers out of new users. *If* you could get keyboard focus to follow the mouse not just from window to window but to each widget, *then* it might make a sensible setting for some end users. Maybe. I wouldn't roll it out to a wide group without first watching half a dozen normal end users trying to use it, though.

      > I think nautilus is pretty good

      Yeah, I think the complexspiral demo is cool, too.

      Oh, you meant the file manager? I haven't used a graphical file manager on anything resembling a regular basis since I discovered tab completion. I have no opinion on Nautilus versus Konqueror, because I view them both as strictly end-user stuff. I personally have Nautilus exorcised from my Gnome session, because not having it in memory saves RAM. This means my wallpaper doesn't get set, but that's not important to me. (As noted above, I use panel drawers, so I don't need to keep icons on my desktop, so I don't need to compulsively minimize everything all the time; consequently, I haven't *seen* my background in weeks. Usually when I do see more than a small section of it, it's because I'm closing everything in preparation for logging out, e.g. because I've upgraded some ports and want to move to the new versions.)

      > Also, I find that you complaint about the configuration menus and whatnot valid. KDE takes
      > a bit of customization, but I usually just sit down with a new install and go through the
      > control panel until I'm satisfied. Most users shouldn't have to do this.

      Right, this is the difference between defaults versus options. Defaults are for end users, and most users, be

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    57. Re:That's all well and good... by ender- · · Score: 1

      I *would* switch to KDE if it got panel drawers, because in every other respect I *hate* the direction Gnome has been going since 2.0.


      Well, you might try this...

      Right click the panel and add, special button, quick browser.
      Point quick browser to a directory containing links to your favourite
      applications, or images etc.

      Perhaps it isn't an optimal solution since you'll have to create a directory with the links/shortcuts you want, but it will work as a panel drawer in KDE.

      I like XFCE's way of doing it though. When you put an icon on the panel, if there are other applications of the same type [or not if you wish] you can add a launcher menu to that icon [a little arrow to the right of the icon] that will pull up a panel drawer with whatever other apps in there you want. Kind of the best of both worlds. For instance 90% of the time I use Nautilus as a file browser so I have a Nautilus icon on the panel, but if I want to go ahead and use xffm or konqueror, I can quickly pull those up without having to go through the main menu.

      --
      Nothing to see here
    58. Re:That's all well and good... by OpenServe · · Score: 1

      I think the fact that KDE even exists means that Gnome shouldn't try to be more "advanced" (bloated).

      KDE and GNOME have a nearly identical memory footprint and overhead. Given the fact that KDE provides more real-world functionaity for that same "resource bloat" which one has the better features/bloat ratio?

      So people like the advanced options, the glimmer and the numerous widgets. Those people pick KDE. Some people just a basic, day-to-day desktop environment. Those people pick Gnome. The availability of both seems ideal to me.

      There is absolutely no reason why people can't have both. That is the ultimate fallacy of the GNOME HCI philosophy. Include options and features, but hide them intelligently so they don't get in the way until needed. Create rich widgets but allow the user to customize them. Have glimmer but let it be easily turned off. This is the direction KDE4 is going and GNOME needs to follow if it is to remain relevant. I certainly hope it will, because other non-UI elements of GNOME are very promising.

      It should also be noted that if one is to err in either direction, most people prefer excess features to excess simplicity if those features help them get their work done faster. That's why most people prefer KDE today. Neither is ideal, but it gets the job done.

    59. Re:That's all well and good... by Shawn+is+an+Asshole · · Score: 1

      I like arTs. and dcop. and KDE. They're designed with some sense of... well, sense.

      I like KDE very much, eventhough I'm now primarily using Enlightenment. I don't like arts though. It would be decent if every app I used it, but most don't. I keep arts running but I have it release the device after 5 seconds so it doesn't lock out my other programs from sound.

      Seriously, for applications written for KDE, KDE is fast (even on my PoS 500MHz Dell).

      I agree. It's very fast compared to GNOME (in my experience, anyway). But if you think it's fast, you really need to try Enlightenment or IceWM. Those are blazing, even with Enlightenment's eyecandy.

      the virtualized filesystem is so nice that its something I'd like to be ported to bash's userspace

      That is a feature I love, though it would be better if other applications (OpenOffice for example) could make use of it. I use fish:// pretty heavily. (Kate is my editor)

      Konqueror is crap compared to Firefox

      What I like about Konqueror is it doesn't crash all the time like Firefox. Ever try to use myspace.com with Firefox?

      --
      "It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
    60. Re:That's all well and good... by JohnFluxx · · Score: 1

      What's bloated about the browser? Do you mean in terms of features, or just the GUI?

    61. Re:That's all well and good... by supermank17 · · Score: 1

      I've actually kinda had the opposite experiance. I've experienced plenty of annoying little bugs in Gnome, such as the network config utility not actually keeping my settings when I hit "ok", or Nautilus crashing at odd moments. And KDE seems, at least to me, to run a little faster. I think what it comes down to is which desktop's bugs annoy you less. I personally find that KDE does what I need with the least amount of annoyance. Others find Gnome, or IceWM, or one of the other myriad options work best.

    62. Re:That's all well and good... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "How about the stupid kwallet and multiple email accounts? Add some account settings and kwallet doesn't know about it because you've closed it? Oops, can't get email for that account."

      I'm not sure what you're on about. I've used KDE for a few years now on multiple machines. I've used Kmail as the client quite often, and have never had to interact with KWallet ever. I can't think of what to use it for actually...never had to, and the few times KWallet has prompted me for something...I just dismissed it and shut it down.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    63. Re:That's all well and good... by g2devi · · Score: 1

      > My largest complaint against GNOME right now is their philosophy that more features means less usability

      Actually, that's a bit of a misconception. That was the attitude in GNOME 2.0 developers, but it has become a lot more nuanced as GNOME 2.4 and later evolved. The current attitude is that features are great, but it only makes sense to add them if you can find a good place to put them and only if you can come up with sensible defaults. It's possible to quickly slap together an interface that gives you all the fine grained X11 features or all the low level audo features of ALSA, but then that would be a nightmare to navigate and a nightmare to support. Despite KDE's cry of "give me all the features now", even they don't provide that level of power. Few people want it.

      The key difference between KDE and GNOME on this front is that GNOME simply wants to take the time to do it right the first time using standard technology, while KDE would prefer to get the features now even if they have to make up their own technology and then evolve that to a right solution.

      Both approaches are okay and your choice of GNOME or KDE says more about you than the desktop environment. Personally, I like GNOME's measured and polished approach. If I didn't have GNOME, I'd likely move to XFCE instead of KDE, since feels and works better for me. I'm guessing that many KDErs would likely move to Enlightenment instead of GNOME if KDE was unavailable for precisely the same reason.

    64. Re:That's all well and good... by JahToasted · · Score: 1
      I hope they don't make any big changes in Gnome. All I want from a DE is to be able to easily access Apps and files. I look at the top of my screen and see an Applications menu and a Places menu. I can even drag my most used apps to the bar at the top so they're one click away. I can get to my apps and files quickly, what more do I need?

      I'd say making incremental improvements is the way to go. Why spend a lot of time adding features I'm only going to use a couple of times because it looks cool and then ignore once the novelty wears off?

    65. Re:That's all well and good... by aichpvee · · Score: 1
      What isn't the problem with them? Broken keyboard navigation. Broken mouse navigation. Hugely wasteful of screen space while not actually providing anything useful in that space.

      It's even more infuriating since the given reasons for doing anything even remotely like what they did are so fucking ridiculous (the basic apple "it's easier for people who have never used a computer before", only more-so) AND it affects applications that have no reasonable alternatives on Linux for the majority of Linux users who a) don't run gnome, and b) don't like how gnome works.

      --
      The Farewell Tour II
    66. Re:That's all well and good... by CarpetShark · · Score: 1
      But does anyone have info about usability improvements? KDE is currently a usability nightmare from my perspective.


      You Sir, have never tried to use it with any real conviction.
    67. Re:That's all well and good... by m50d · · Score: 1

      Responsiveness, and "feel", which I know is a terrible thing to quantify. But it feels slow.

      --
      I am trolling
    68. Re:That's all well and good... by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1

      What would you suggest?

      --
      http://outcampaign.org/
    69. Re:That's all well and good... by JohnFluxx · · Score: 1

      Yeah I'd agree. Someone spent a long time making it a lot more responsive, but it can still be a bit annoying. I don't have any problems however on a machine with a lot of memory.

      In future, I wonder if it would be better to term it unresponsive then. Saying bloated is so ambigous.

    70. Re:That's all well and good... by Curtman · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      "I use fish:// pretty heavily."

      Really.. I use ssh://. What the hell does yours do?

    71. Re:That's all well and good... by Shawn+is+an+Asshole · · Score: 1

      Fish does SSH. Heh, I didn't even know ssh:// worked.

      --
      "It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
    72. Re:That's all well and good... by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > Point quick browser to a directory containing links to your favourite
      > applications, or images etc.

      This has been suggested to me before, but I am highly skeptical about whether it will do what I want. Among other things...

      Panel drawers, when they pop out, contain launchers that are just like the ones on the panel itself, i.e., their size is configurable, and so forth. In particular, they are pretty close to square, *not* vertically shrunken and horizontally wide like the items on a menu. This is good, because it makes them very easy to hit quickly.

      Panel drawers may also contain panel applets, e.g., if I for space reasons don't want to keep the volume control applet on my main panel, but I do want it around for occasional use, I can toss it in a drawer. This is not a deal-breaker, but it sure is nice.

      When my panel fills up with launchers and I need to make some space, it's easy to just grab one of the least-used items on the panel and drag it into a drawer. Along the same lines, creating a new launcher in the drawer is the same as creating one on the panel.

      Basically, panel drawers are a designed-in feature of the interface. What you seem to be suggesting as a substitute is that I try to make do with a completely dissimilar feature that's inherently not designed to do what I want. It's not that the feature you're talking about is *bad*, but I think it's fundamentally not the same feature I was talking about.

      Yes, I'm picky.

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  5. Already slashdotted? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Redundant

    Already slashdotted?

  6. It looks cool, so it is cool? by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think that trying to judge a book by its cover is probably the worst way to determine the utility of a window manager. One ought not be swayed by high resolution backgrounds and pretty fractal images. Then, of course, we live in an age where Mr. Britney Spears has a hit album, so I don't really have much confidence in the general public's ability to discern quality products from glitter-encrusted dog shit.

    Oh...Shiny!

    BTW, the link is Schiavo.

    1. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
      KDE isn't a window manager, it's a desktop environment, shininess is a big part of what it does.

      Incidentally, you are, in fact, part of the "general public". Regardless of what you tell yourself, you are not better than the rest of us. Take my word for it, you just aren't.

    2. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by aussie_a · · Score: 4, Interesting

      How a program looks is often indicative on the time and care that went into the program itself. If it looks like absolute shit, there probably wasn't much time that went into it, or the people didn't know what they were doing. If it looks great, it MIGHT be good.

    3. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It takes all of 3 seconds to put a fancy shmancy hi-res wallpaper up. There's nothing particularly impressive about screenshots where the wallpaper is the primary thing being shown (which is how most screenshots are set up)

    4. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      Which isn't what I found impressive about the screenshots being shown (see a slashdot post further down). Way to go at being judgemental (although in all fairness, it being slashdotted doesn't help).

    5. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by egarland · · Score: 1

      I think that trying to judge a book by its cover is probably the worst way to determine the utility of a window manager.

      Agreed. But they appear to be working on some significant usability improvements. If they do what was outlined in this (which I believe is a design mockup, article is slashdotted already so I don't know) they'd be a lot closer to winning me over.

      --
      set softtabstop=4 shiftwidth=4 expandtab nocp worlddomination
    6. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah it looks shiny allright, looks like the KDE developers looked at Windows Vista beta/screenshot, and decided to be the first with those shiny 'glass' looks. Makes them lots cooler than Windows of course.

    7. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

      Fuck you to the idiots who modded this worthless karma whore up.

    8. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So by your amazing scheme, a screenshot of a login prompt at a Linux tty would mean that "not much time went into" Linux?

    9. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by q.kontinuum · · Score: 1

      Sure. The Linux kernel e.g. can't be that good, it's not shiny. And LaTeX also lacks some shiny tools. What about emacs, vim, apache, mySQL? Also not so good? And about shiny applications: MS-Word, with the annoying Clip? Windows XP home edition in comparison to Windows 2003 Professional Edition? Sorry, but I think your argument is void.

      --
      Trolling is a art!
    10. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah functionality is all we need. No need for beautiful things and appearance.

      Might I guess your favorite music is the flat 440Hz sin wave (it's useful!) ?

    11. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by jcr · · Score: 4, Funny

      Dude.. The general public hates it when you tell them that. ;-)

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    12. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by elbonian · · Score: 1

      One of the main reasons why some WM's succeed is graphical coolness don't you forget that.

      Anyway I assume that KDE is not only aiming "to look cool".

    13. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by Theatetus · · Score: 1

      But we're talking about a desktop environment here: an application suite whose purpose is to give me an interface with the computer and system software that is easy to use and attractive.

      That, incidentally, is why I use windowmaker. It is stable, looks good, and throws in GNUStep as a bonus.

      --
      All's true that is mistrusted
    14. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by ozbird · · Score: 1

      Mr. Britney Spears?! Boy, have I been out of touch with mainstream pop culture...

    15. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      ...or is just an indicative of how much time they spent in the looks alone. My issue with KDE is that this extreme focus on coolness makes it feel very juvenile.

      KDE might be the desktop environment for the AOL generation, but I digress...

    16. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by gnuLNX · · Score: 1

      Well said,

      I for one welcome my general public overlords???

      --
      what?
    17. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by q.kontinuum · · Score: 1

      I use windowmaker as well. But I find it a good example, why fancy screenshots are no criterium. At their homepage the screenshots are currently not available. The standard installation does not have transparent windows, fancy moving icons etc, but is highly functional.

      --
      Trolling is a art!
    18. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about being part of the Sgt. public. Generals creep me out.

    19. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by Kgosi+Makwati · · Score: 1

      How a program looks is often indicative on the time and care that went into the program itself.

      I finally get it!! A lot of time went into "designing" Windoze.

    20. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahh! but you're wrong. KDE IS a window manager as well.

    21. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no, metacity is kde's window manager. kde is a desktop environment

    22. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by jpmkm · · Score: 1

      Wrong. Metacity is gnome's default window manager. KDE's default WM is Kwin.

    23. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      Kevin Federline has a hit record? I guess I am out of the mainstream.

    24. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Regardless of what you tell yourself, you are not better than the rest of us. Take my word for it, you just aren't.

      He doesn't have to be 'better than the rest of us',
      just better than you.

      Which is easy.

    25. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by jbolden · · Score: 1

      The guy talked about effort not quality.

      LaTeX - One guy's extension to TeX. If you add in all the extensions something like an 2 man years on top of LaTeX. TeX is one guy's work. So lock stock and barrell under 10 man years.

      Emacs, Vim - one guy's work. Both well under 10 man years.

      MS-Word hundreds of man years beind developed constantly at great cost over a period of two decades. Somewhere well over 1000 man years.

    26. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by shiftless · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Regardless of what you tell yourself, you are not better than the rest of us.

      That's bullshit. Everyone is not the "same". On average, people are idiots. There are dumber ones, and there are smarter ones. Also, on average, people don't have a friggin clue about what looks good or what is tasteful or useable. Witness the hordes of cars driving around with loud, mismatched body kits, outrageous wings, Japanese writing on American cars, the list goes on for as long as someone cares to discuss.

      This extends to the average programmer or developer. They don't have a clue about usability. That's why KDE is cluttered with crap and Gnome is so featureless as to be useless. It's the same idea taken to opposite extremes. Personally, I can program well AND have a good eye for aesthetics/usability too, so in that respect I AM better than most. I am sure there are others who are the same way and who's to say the grandparent isn't? So your assertion that he is not "better than anyone" is unfounded.

    27. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by mellon · · Score: 1

      The argument needs a bit of clarification, but it's not invalid. It does matter how things look. It also matters that they work, and that they be easy to use. You can just get things to work, but if they aren't easy to use, nobody will use them, so it doesn't matter if they work. Part of making a visual interface usable is figuring out how to naturally draw the eye where it needs to go - how to provide visual cues that help you to do the right thing without having to internalize a complicated model of how the program works. It's also possible, however, to just add glitz without adding usability, and that's where the bad reputation visual design gets comes from. Attractive visual design without usability gives you an app that's all dressed up with no place to go.

    28. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by karnal · · Score: 1

      Tell us how you really feel.

      --
      Karnal
    29. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by binarybum · · Score: 1

      oh man, I always thought Britney Spears was a chick! glitter-encrusted indeed!!

      --
      ôó
    30. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by triso · · Score: 1
      Mr. Britney Spears?! Boy, have I been out of touch with mainstream pop culture...
      I hear his wife has had a sex change--twice--or so they say.
    31. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by startling · · Score: 1

      I recently helped a friend with a visual overhaul of his business. The database app he wrote for a large company got a shiny new look as a result, but absolutely no changes to the underlying code. A significant number of users reported performance increases!

    32. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by shiftless · · Score: 1

      I did, very insightfully I would argue, and got moderated flamebait. :( How lame!

    33. Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? by Illbay · · Score: 1

      I've always considered myself part of the "special public."

      --
      Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
  7. Coral Cache by Nycto · · Score: 4, Informative

    Coral Cache for the curious:
    have
    appeared

    (that first one was working for me, but I haven't been able to get the second to load yet)

    --

    --Nycto

    1. Re:Coral Cache by aussie_a · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've yet to get any of the pictures loaded in the cache. Had it been linked to in the first place, perhaps the cache would be working better.

  8. boo by Godslayer017044 · · Score: -1, Troll

    Boo! KDE suXors, Gnome pwns

  9. Coral cache links by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Redundant
    As it seems already ./'ed: I hope some day ./ editors will use some of the wonderful things that internet has, like Coral Cache.
    1. Re:Coral cache links by baadger · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Why is this modded informative? In this case Coral doesn't help in letting us see what we go to see... because the screenshots on the linked page use absolute URL's, and CoralCDN doesn't do any page rewriting.

      Setup proxomitron or middleman to rewrite abs-url's on coral pages and then you're rocking.

  10. The goggles, they do nothing! by js92647 · · Score: 1

    Not when the website has been /.'d :).

    1. Re:The goggles, they do nothing! by Godslayer017044 · · Score: -1, Troll

      testing... sfsdf qtowas ffesa you are all gay

    2. Re:The goggles, they do nothing! by satcomdaddy1 · · Score: 1

      And apparently the Coral Cache as well.
      Oh well, I'll have to wait to see screenshots of eye candy......as was stated earlier, have they increased functionality? It's currently kinda like looking at screenshots if Vista.

  11. Slashdotted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Redundant

    God work, guys! Only 9 comments and already slashdotted. What's the point of linking to sites that can't handle the load? Can someone post a link to a chache?

  12. word by sakura+the+mc · · Score: -1

    kde owns

  13. E17 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Aaaaah. Screw KDE.

    Compile today's CVS of E17. Sure every other recompile will break functionality (right now MPlayer is giving me a lot of shit) but come on, look at it! It's so purdy.

    But seriously, I've been using Enlightenment for 8+ years and I've never had any kind of complaint about usability or speed or anything.

  14. Slashdotted :( by ASUSanator · · Score: 1

    Even without seeing the screenshots i can tell you that i care about the functionality/speed FIRST and the Looks Second. In my opinion KDE looks fine ATM they just need to refine it some more add some more interesting features and keep speeding it up.

    1. Re:Slashdotted :( by MORB · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but of course if you had seen the screenshot, you'd know that they're mockups that are as much about usability and functionality than look.

      But then, you'd have been at risk to make a relevant post.

    2. Re:Slashdotted :( by ASUSanator · · Score: 1

      Mockups are completely useless. I don't think i have ever seen a mockup that has the final product live up to it.

  15. Screenshots from article by LaurenBC · · Score: 2, Informative

    KDE makes me want to log out of Linux, but that's just my opinion. Here's some of the better pictures from the forum post that seems unresponsive atm. Gogo google-cache.
    http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/2962/components 31jm.png
    http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/707/possibleui1 3ke.png
    http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/5343/fake5bo6pi .jpg
    http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/2605/fakepanels etup7wv8km.jpg
    http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/8478/desktop1vn 1co.jpg

    --
    I don't need this, I've got a Master's Degree in folklore and mythology!
    1. Re:Screenshots from article by Mathiasdm · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Isn't that gnome? http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/707/possibleui1 3ke.png

      --
      Join the anonymous, help develop the network: http://www.i2p2.de
    2. Re:Screenshots from article by NetRAVEN5000 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Might wanna re-check your sources - that foot in the corner indicates that it's GNOME, not KDE.

      --
      www.linuxpenguin.net
    3. Re:Screenshots from article by ASUSanator · · Score: 2, Insightful

      http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/707/possibleui1 3ke.png Looks mighty gnome like .....

    4. Re:Screenshots from article by kyrre · · Score: 1

      >KDE makes me want to log out of Linux, but that's just my opinion.

      Could you please clearify this statement?

    5. Re:Screenshots from article by MadJo · · Score: 1

      hmmm that second image you linked to looks far more like Gnome, than like KDE, are you sure that's an KDE image?

      --
      80 CC D8 AF AE D3 AB 54 B7 2E CE 67 C7
    6. Re:Screenshots from article by LaurenBC · · Score: 1

      My mistake, one of the screenshots certainly is from gnome. but
      http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/8478/desktop1vn 1co.jpg is definitely KDE. and the entire article is at


      http://64.233.179.104/search?sourceid=navclient-ff &ie=UTF-8&rls=GGGL,GGGL:2005-09,GGGL:en&q=cache%3A http%3A%2F%2Fwww.planetdiaz.com%2Fforums%2Findex.p hp%3Fshowtopic%3D141

      Apologies for that, but the coral cache wasn't working great.

      --
      I don't need this, I've got a Master's Degree in folklore and mythology!
    7. Re:Screenshots from article by strider44 · · Score: 4, Informative

      And the three "screenshots" that are supposedly of KDE are actually mockups from KDE Artists not actual screenshots of the dev version!

    8. Re:Screenshots from article by pembo13 · · Score: 1

      Could you explain your reasoning for your anti-kde comment? I am honestly curious.

      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    9. Re:Screenshots from article by Kyro · · Score: 1

      IMHO those mockups look like it's trying to look like Vista.
      Of course those are only mockups, but a few I've seen seem to be heading in this direction. It is better than keramik though :p

      --
      save the GNUs!
    10. Re:Screenshots from article by 10Ghz · · Score: 4, Informative
      My mistake, one of the screenshots certainly is from gnome. but
      http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/8478/desktop1vn 1co.jpg is definitely KDE.


      Uh, that's a mockup, not a screenshot. Seriously, there's not much to show at the moment, the work on KDE4 is concentrating of the libraries and porting. There can't be no screenshots of some whiz-bang KDE4 GUI, because that GUI does not exists. I bet that if you could get KDE4 to compile and run, it would look 95% identical to KDE3.5.
      --
      Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
    11. Re:Screenshots from article by thegrassyknowl · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ta for the screens, but in response to your comment...

      Gnome makes me want to reinstall WindowsXP. I am glad we are not all forced to use Gnome becuase I really feel that it is a backwards step from the interface shipped with Windows. Gnome might be polished to a mirror shine, but it is still clunky to use. I feel like i'm fighting it every time I use it.

      KDE might be less polished, require more work to initially configure, and present more options (and hence confuse new users) but it is less clunky under the hood. It took me a day to configure KDE from the defaults shipped with my OS to a competely different set of options that make it just blend into the computer. I didn't set out to change the config and I just tweaked here and there until I was satisfied with how it used.

      I could never get Gnome to work like that - there was always something wrong with it, no matter how long I sat in front of it trying to tweak it so it didn't get in the way all the time.

      Anywho... to summarise: Gnome sucks compared to KDE if you really want a desktop that will just bugger off into the background and not wrestle with you.

      --
      I drink to make other people interesting!
    12. Re:Screenshots from article by JPriest · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      IS cloning XP all you have to do these days to earn the title "Artist"?

      --
      Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
    13. Re:Screenshots from article by Francis85 · · Score: 1

      Good artists copy.
      Great artists steal.

    14. Re:Screenshots from article by chthon · · Score: 0

      What I really like about GNOME, and what I haven't found yet in KDE, is its volume management.

      For KDE to work with USB Mass Storage devices, I need to configure udev via udev.rules.

      With GNOME, I just plugin the device and it appears on my desk, with a nice default name.

      This makes GNOME a much better sell for ordinary users.

    15. Re:Screenshots from article by fishbot · · Score: 1

      Um, not at all. Just open a Konqueror window and type 'media:/' into the address bar and there you go. One thing I particularly like in KDE that has not yet appeared in Gnome (if I have time I might add it) is a volumn applet for the kicker. As soon as I plug in my camera, USB stick, whatever, an icon appears on the kicker for it so I can mount, unmount, browse, view properties ...

    16. Re:Screenshots from article by thegrassyknowl · · Score: 1

      Gnome uses the underlying facilities like UDEV too.

      I have no issue on KDE with hotplugging USB storage devices, inserting and removing cds, zip disks, LS120 disks, etc. They all just appear and Konqueror lets you mount/unmount them like any other device.

      Are you using Gnome and KDE on different distros?

      --
      I drink to make other people interesting!
    17. Re:Screenshots from article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.

      But sex is nice...

    18. Re:Screenshots from article by Tikicult · · Score: 0

      Funny - the only screenshot I get using Internet Explorer 7 is:

      Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage

            Most likely causes:
      You are not connected to the Internet.
      The website is encountering problems.
      There might be a typing error in the address.

            What you can try:
            Check your Internet connection. Try visiting another website to make sure you are connected.
            Retype the address.
            Go back to the previous page.
              More information

    19. Re:Screenshots from article by Khazunga · · Score: 1

      You just need to install hal and dbus. Start their respective daemons, and you're set. No need to fiddle around with udev.rules.

      --
      If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you
    20. Re:Screenshots from article by Klivian · · Score: 1

      >KDE makes me want to log out of Linux, but that's just my opinion.

      Could you please clearify this statement?

      I think it's because he likes the KDE logout dialog so much....

    21. Re:Screenshots from article by SiChemist · · Score: 1

      You obviously haven't tried out Kubuntu. My install of Breezy automagically puts a icon on the desktop when I plug in my USB drive.

      --
      God is imaginary
    22. Re:Screenshots from article by paulatz · · Score: 1

      So the next KDE mascotte will be a frog!

      --
      this post contain no useful information, no need to mod it down
    23. Re:Screenshots from article by pembo13 · · Score: 1

      Fair enough. But I suspect this is more a result of opportunistic theme builders who happen to like Vista, make use of the dev dollars already spent by MS to design UIs. I'm not sure if there is anything wrong with that itself. Frankly, it can look like Visa, as long as I have virtual desktops, kio_slaves, and no Explorer, etc.

      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    24. Re:Screenshots from article by caseih · · Score: 1

      To each his own. I love Gnome as well as OS X's interface. The two desktops share some similarities and characteristics. Both just get out of the way and let me work. KDE seems to be much more in my face.

      So. to summarise: KDE sucks compared to Gnome if you really want a desktop that will just bugger off into the background and not wrestle with you.

    25. Re:Screenshots from article by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but what desktop has a frog in the corner? and to be honest, it is a lousy desktop!

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    26. Re:Screenshots from article by chthon · · Score: 1

      No, both on the same system using Debian unstable.

    27. Re:Screenshots from article by chthon · · Score: 1

      I have tried this.

      I only get views of devices which are defined in /etc/fstab.

    28. Re:Screenshots from article by thegrassyknowl · · Score: 1

      Well I don't get it then, because both work fine on Fedora for me; not that I use Gnome very much because I think it is a steaming pile of goat's piss.

      --
      I drink to make other people interesting!
  16. Other screenshots by titten · · Score: 3, Informative

    Since the Slashdot effect is working it's magic, here are (unfortunately only three) other screenshots: http://garret.wordpress.com/2006/01/30/kde4-screen shots/

    1. Re:Other screenshots by 10Ghz · · Score: 1

      Those are NOT screenshots. Those are mockups. There are many people who are floating around ideas what KDE4 could look like and behave. And many of them have created mockups to illustrate their ideas. Those "screenshots" are just that.

      I haven't seen the screenshots mentioned in the original post, but I have a feeling that they too are just mockups or extremely early screenshots of pre-beta code that does not in any shape or form reflect the final product.

      --
      Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
  17. old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    boo, this link was posted on distrowatch like 2 weeks ago...

  18. Looking at KDE 4 and Vista by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I suddenly feel a strong urge to hug my Mac running OS X.

  19. Great way of starting a flamewar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well done.
    Simply calling KDE a usability nightmare is not only inaccurate, but also is a clear indication that all you are looking for is to start a stupid Gnome vs. KDE flamewar.

    Improving usability has been one of the major concerns in KDE developement for some time now, as you would know had you actually used KDE recently. Just look at all the KDE devs working together with openusability.org.

    That said, there are of course enough areas where usability can and should be improved in KDE and from loosely following some developement discussions, making KDE more usable is one if not the major goal of the upcoming KDE 4 release.

    1. Re:Great way of starting a flamewar by John+Nowak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't want a flamewar. I've used KDE within the past two months (Kubuntu live CD). To me, it is a nightmare of redundant options, unpredictable behaviour, and completely hideous defaults. Fuck, the text doesn't even fit in some of the configuration windows unless I resize them! (Why they can be resized so small that they're useless in the first place I don't know.)

      I want to know what, if anything, is being done to correct these issues and many more without scouring mailing lists. That's all.

    2. Re:Great way of starting a flamewar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      "Fuck, the text doesn't even fit in some of the configuration windows unless I resize them!"
      Fuck, you just discovered a well known and annoying kubuntu bug, not a kde bug.
      Same goes for the default layout. It's kubuntu specific, not the KDE default layout.
      So all you showed us so far is two kubuntu problems. Well done.

      Oh, and btw.:
      http://usability.kde.org/

      Have fun!

    3. Re:Great way of starting a flamewar by John+Nowak · · Score: 1

      Thanks for (roughly) correcting me. What's with such a strange bug in Kubuntu anyway? It looks absolutely amateurish and awful!

      I'm glad to see there is a usability team. Hopefully as time goes on they'll steer KDE the right way.

    4. Re:Great way of starting a flamewar by m50d · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I've used KDE within the past two months (Kubuntu live CD).

      The one with broken kde packages?

      To me, it is a nightmare of redundant options,

      They're only redundant if you don't use them, otherwise they're vital

      unpredictable behaviour, and completely hideous defaults.

      What're these? The defaults seem fine to me.

      (Why they can be resized so small that they're useless in the first place I don't know.)

      Because there are people who want to resize it that small. It's the Ritchie thing about "Do not try and prevent users doing stupid things, for you will also prevent users doing clever things".

      --
      I am trolling
    5. Re:Great way of starting a flamewar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      What's with such a strange bug in Kubuntu anyway? It looks absolutely amateurish and awful!
      Kubuntu is always packed with bugs - it's easily the worst implementation of KDE I've ever seen. For example, in 5.04, the Administrator mode for the Settings panel was, literally, non-functional - click the Administrator button, enter the correct password, and nothing would happen. Konqueror would crash approx 6 times out of 10 when you deleted a file in a certain way (using the "delete" keypress, if I recall), and not just for me - *dozens* of people on the forums complained of it. The flagship media player, kaffeine, would not shut down properly - with 100% reproducability, closing it would simply leave the process invisibly hanging, using 100% CPU until killed from the command-line. These are just the bugs I noticed in the first couple of hours of use, and many people complained of all of them. An upgrade was issued, but could not be installed without forcing it from the command-line due to poor packaging. The situation persisted for weeks.

      Flash-forward to 5.10. The initial release had HAL integration broken, so inserting a DVD/ USB pen/ other removable media would, without fail, bring up a Konqueror window that complained of an invalid URL. The Administrator button still didn't work (six months later, mind!), although a later update fixed this - for me, at least. KMail's GPG integration was fucked and simply failed with some (to a newbie) unfathomable error message. The Systems Settings was apparently not usable, at all, on certain screen resolutions(!). The Package Manager, Adept, apparently on a 1.0 release, was featureless and crashed frequently. God, the list goes on and on!

      The reason for this can be traced to the fact that Ubuntu is very much a GNOME-centric distro and that KDE is basically a red-headed step-child. Despite Mr Shuttleworth's opportunistic announcement (on the day that SUSE said they were going to slack off on KDE development) that he was going to make Kubuntu a "first-class distro" he has not, to my knowledge, hired a single extra KDE developer. I'm plucking these figures out of my arse, but I'm betting that full-time GNOME developers outnumber full-time KDE developers at Ubuntu by at least 5 to 1, so it's really no wonder it's such a mess of bugs that never seem to get fixed. I pity anyone whose first exposure to KDE comes from Kubuntu, I really do.

    6. Re:Great way of starting a flamewar by BenjyD · · Score: 1

      I've always found the defaults in KDE to be terrible - it used to take me about half an hour of adjusting settings before I could use it. Things like small, ugly fonts, horrible kicker panel background image, bad toolbar button layout with too small buttons, that awful bouncing-ball launch notification, unclear default icon theme, bad window title bar button layout, that annoying windows-style giant tooltip from the kicker.

    7. Re:Great way of starting a flamewar by nutshell42 · · Score: 1
      Hey I don't want to insult you but to me you're the most fucked gay fucker that ever porked his mom. IOW the next time if you don't want a flamewar don't post flames.

      And in my experience most KDE dialogs automatically resize themselves if the text is to large for the window and if that's not possible at least they show scrollbars unlike Firefox (1.07, don't know about 1.5).

      --
      Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
    8. Re:Great way of starting a flamewar by m50d · · Score: 1
      small, ugly fonts,

      12 point helvetica, looks fine to my eyes.

      horrible kicker panel background image

      Huh? Default is plain grey.

      bad toolbar button layout

      OK, this could probably do with some work, but at the same time I can't see any immediately better way to lay out the toolbars.

      with too small buttons

      Personal preference, I don't like them taking up too much screen space.

      that awful bouncing-ball launch notification,

      What's awful about it? It makes it quite clear your computer is doing something, so you don't try and start the program again and get three copies of it.

      unclear default icon theme,

      Must again be personal preference, I find the icons look far far better than the horrible grey gnome counterparts.

      bad window title bar button layout,

      Menu on the left, frequently used actions on the right. I hope you're not advocating the horrible Apple window titlebar buttonset.

      that annoying windows-style giant tooltip from the kicker.

      Optional in the first run wizard.

      --
      I am trolling
    9. Re:Great way of starting a flamewar by BenjyD · · Score: 1

      I haven't used KDE much since 3.3 I think, but back then the default kicker background was some awful greyish-blue gradient. The launch notification was annoying because it wasn't actually part of the mouse cursor, it just lagged along behind it and frequently didn't work properly. Icons in the default theme were too similar, so that it was hard to quickly tell apart different actions in toolbars.

    10. Re:Great way of starting a flamewar by Klivian · · Score: 1

      bad window title bar button layout

      The default button layout can vary between window decoration styles, but since every last one of them are configurable(Except the OpenLook decoration actually, that would have been kind of useless) making it rather easy to use the layout that fits your personal preferences best.

    11. Re:Great way of starting a flamewar by JohnFluxx · · Score: 1

      Jonathon Riddell is paid to work on kubuntu

    12. Re:Great way of starting a flamewar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      They're only redundant if you don't use them, otherwise they're vital

      Do you know what the word redundant means?

    13. Re:Great way of starting a flamewar by m50d · · Score: 1

      Yes, but it would be false if the OP was using it accurately.

      --
      I am trolling
  20. no offense... by larry+bagina · · Score: -1, Flamebait
    but let's be honest. You've probably heard the quote, "BSD is for people that love Unix; Linux is for people that hate Windows." The sad truth is, it's true. Many Linux users have no particular loyalty to Linux and would just as soon use something else. While we may protest that KDE or GNOME are better than OS X, the collective orgasm when Apple announced an OSx86 show that free (beer) beats free (speech).

    More than a few people from my local LUG have installed a bootlegged copy of the OSx86 beta. One of our members showed off his toshiba laptop running OS X, which was quite popular, even among the old school unix types.

    It doesn't really matter what features or eye candy KDE or GNOME add, because OS X does it better. Flame me if you will, but I've been using Linux and BSD for over a decade now. An OS is a tool, I want one that works, and I think most people feel the same way.

    --
    Do you even lift?

    These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    1. Re:no offense... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1, Offtopic
      You've probably heard the quote, "BSD is for people that love Unix; Linux is for people that hate Windows." The sad truth is, it's true

      Its hard for me reply because I don't see what you are driving at. Are you saying we should all run OSX?

      I know a few Linux people who also own an Apple laptop. I recomended one to my sister as well. But people aren't abandoning Linux, unless they are non-technical people satisfied with an alternative.

      I run NetBSD on my web servers because I can update the OS without having to totally rethink my own configuration. I run Ubuntu on my laptop because Gnome gives me a nice desktop, provided you don't want it to stay up for months. I run fvwm on fedora on my main workstation because it really does stay up for months.

      An improved KDE will attract more people to *NIX. That's a good thing as far as I am concerned.

      --
      http://michaelsmith.id.au
    2. Re:no offense... by Alioth · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's that idiotic quote about Linux vs BSD users got to do with KDE? KDE is *not* a Linux desktop, it's a Unix deskopt (i.e. Linux, *BSD, AIX, Solaris etc.) I don't understand why *BSD users continuously whine about how Linux is 'trying to emulate Windows' when GNOME and KDE are *their* desktops, too.

      By the way, I started with Linux in 1992. I started with Linux in 1992 because I loved Unix and wanted it on my PC.

      --
      Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
    3. Re:no offense... by dartarrow · · Score: 1, Troll

      An OS is a tool, I want one that works, and I think most people feel the same way.

      No, I want one that makes me feel cool, intelligent and fuels my eliteist, I-wanna-be-the-minority emo mind while being able to talk about words that people don't understand like GPL and FOSS while running programs with names that have no intuitive meaning like Gaim and Gimp and Evolution while showing off Glossy purdy Icons and Opac Docklets. If I just wanted one that works I'd stick with Windows 95.

      --
      I love humanity, it is people I hate
    4. Re:no offense... by 10Ghz · · Score: 4, Insightful
      It doesn't really matter what features or eye candy KDE or GNOME add, because OS X does it better.


      It does? I have Mac Mini with OS X, and I have been using it for about a year now. I also have a tower-PC running KDE and Linux. And while OS X does have all kinds of nifty eye-candy, and I used it exclusively for few months (to find out what the noise was all about). But after that time I noticed that I simply enjoy using KDE more. It does what I want it to do, and it does it in a way I want it to be done. In OS X, I have to adjusts my workflow and expectations to meet the OS, in Linux and KDE it's the opposite. I can change the GUI and the system to meet my expectations.

      OS X is a nice OS, no question about it. But it's not the Holy Grail of OS'es or GUI's (despite the fact that some people try to claim that it is just that). For me, OS X does NOT do it better. I do love the hardware, and I'm planning to install Linux on that Mini.
      --
      Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
    5. Re:no offense... by Ulrich+Hobelmann · · Score: 1

      I don't know about KDE, but Gnome seems very much platform dependent to me (as does much modern open-source software, sadly). It runs perfectly on Linux, but on my Mac there are lots of problems.

      Cleanly written stuff that doesn't make lots of assumptions about what platform it runs on wouldn't have that problem.

      (I think KDE used to be more portable than Gnome, and would even run on *BSD when Gnome wouldn't. Hmm, maybe I should install KDE on my Mac to compare...)

    6. Re:no offense... by Down_in_the_Park · · Score: 1

      I've installed Kubuntu on the powerbook I'm using and it just works. To be honest, OS X works also :-)

      --
      "People who are willing to sacrifice essential freedoms for security deserve neither freedom nor security."

      B F
    7. Re:no offense... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gnome does run fine in any *BSD* with a "standards-compilance" X server. That of course means, that the Apple X11 will not be able to run it, not probably KDE. But FreeBSD, or OpenBSD runing the stock xorg do run gnome flawlessly.

      If you choose to use a closed-source BSD with a propietary non standard X server, it's not BSDs or Gnome fault, but Apple's.

    8. Re:no offense... by Ulrich+Hobelmann · · Score: 1

      Actually I wasn't talking about Linux on my Mac (but I've successfully tried the Ubuntu Live CD on my mini), but about Darwinports running directly side-by-side with other Mac applications.

      It's just cool when your full-screen X11 environment is only a click away ;)

    9. Re:no offense... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

      in rebuttal of your arguments: lol no1 carez, u smell

    10. Re:no offense... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So it's sad that open source software does something only fairly well that Windows or OSX software doesn't do at all?

    11. Re:no offense... by jcr · · Score: 1

      For me, OS X does NOT do it better.

      Better than what?

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    12. Re:no offense... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I totally agree. Only thing interesting in these is that they're open source. They look like OSX / windows, they act like OSX / windows: there's no innovation there besides the openness of the source code. Everything is a copy of something that already exists. In fact, it amuses me how Linux is _now_ starting to look like windows xp. Only a couple of years late. Still, it's good to have the sources available if you need some stuff for your own ideas, etc.

      You can spend a couple of bucks on your OS or spend hours on compiling it, finding & fixing the bugs. I have an illusion of actually having a life, so I'll settle for my OS to be precompiled and worked on by people other than me.

    13. Re:no offense... by tres · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      You're the exception.

      I work with people who work with Linux all day. About 85% of us use OS X as our OS of choice. There's still just too much fray in KDE or Gnome to consider them.

      When I get home, the last thing I want is to figure out why my network card isn't working after the latest upgrade. I'm not interested in finding out that I need to upgrade 15 different libraries before I can upgrade KDE--because I've been doing it all day long. I just want to get on my computer and do what I've got to do. That's the difference. "Customization" usually means petty UI skins, and as much as I've used KDE I've never seen much that was really customizable that wasn't customizable in OS X (except UI skins).

      Don't get me wrong KDE is awesome. Believe me, if KDE provided everything that OS X does, I'd be there in a heartbeat. But it's not about a pretty GUI, it's about the fact that everything "just works." I don't need to figure out how to cut and paste out of this particular application, or the quirks of any individual application, for that matter; that's because they all work the same. Maybe that's not a boon to you, but I just want to get stuff done. I don't have time anymore to screw around with quirks and idiosyncrasies of a desktop environment that is just incomplete.

      --
      Notes From Under *nix: blas.phemo.us
    14. Re:no offense... by dusterl · · Score: 1

      Uhm, sorry to tell you that, but you are wrong. KDE *is* a linux desktop, because it works with linux.(So it is a BSD desktop, MS Windows desktop etc.)

    15. Re:no offense... by dvdungeon · · Score: 1

      In my experience (on my mini-mac) it not quite as rosy as this... I've had problems mounting windows shares where the share doesn't appear in the finder but is listed when you run the mount command in the terminal... A reboot fixed the problem, but still. I also dislike the fact that when you run the software update, when it completes the only choice you get is shutdown or reboot, no reboot later. I want to reboot when it's convenient for me, not the mac, and I hate odd windows floating around on the desktop, while I work. I also find the finder to be unresponsive.

      To be honest, sitting here working in KDE I cannot think of a must have feature of OS X that I miss when using linux/kde.

      So for me, OS X is nice, but it doens't 'just work'. It does some things well, it does some things not so well.

      --
      oops...
    16. Re:no offense... by 10Ghz · · Score: 2, Insightful
      You're the exception.


      Am I? What makes you think that? In that case my wife is an exception as well. She has been using the Mac more than I have, and she's getting fed up with it as well.

      I work with people who work with Linux all day. About 85% of us use OS X as our OS of choice.


      So, because your personal experience says something, it must be universally true?

      "Customization" usually means petty UI skins


      Um, no it doesn't. Sure, you can change the icons, style and the like, but it can go a lot deeper than that.

      and as much as I've used KDE I've never seen much that was really customizable that wasn't customizable in OS X (except UI skins).


      Really? Can you change the number of virtual desktops in OS X? Can you get rid of the menubar on top? Can you replace the Dock with something better? No, no and no.

      Don't get me wrong KDE is awesome. Believe me, if KDE provided everything that OS X does, I'd be there in a heartbeat.


      Well, I don't really care what you decide to do. I'm not trying to say that everyone will love KDE or Linux. There are personal tastes and needs. Some like KDE, others like GNOME, while some others prefer OS X. What I AM disputing is the claim that "Everything KDE does, OS X does better. Period. End of discussion". For lots of people OS X simply does not cut it. I tried it out, and it simply did not work the way I wanted it to work. If it works for you, great. But just because it works for you, does not meant that it's universally superior to everything else.
      --
      Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
    17. Re:no offense... by Alioth · · Score: 1

      That sound was the sound of you totally missing the point.

      --
      Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
    18. Re:no offense... by Alioth · · Score: 1

      Gnome runs just fine on Solaris (the first time I used Gnome, it was on Solaris). It isn't particularly platform dependent. It even runs on Windows. I've not really used it on my Mac (why would I bother, the OS X desktop is just fine).

      I've run KDE on OpenBSD as well as Linux. It seems to run just as well on OpenBSD.

      --
      Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
    19. Re:no offense... by Ulrich+Hobelmann · · Score: 1

      AFAIK Apple's X11 is a fork of XFree86, and of course it's standards compliant and runs all X apps flawlessly. But that doesn't prevent Linux apps from running less than optimally on BSD. A few years ago there wasn't even Gnome for OpenBSD, and on the Mac it doesn't run too well: system monitor doesn't show anything, and other problems.

      It has nothing to do with X11, i.e. the graphics layer, but with how deeply reliant Gnome is on the specific operating system.

      I don't know about what proprietary X stuff you're talking or about what closed source BSD. Apple's BSD core is all open source, and has been for many years. The Aqua GUI and the Cocoa framework are proprietary, but these have nothing at all to do with X11 or the Unix base.

    20. Re:no offense... by Ulrich+Hobelmann · · Score: 2, Interesting

      On Windows? Wow.

      I only remember that some years ago there was no Gnome on OpenBSD, and KDE didn't run too well; but at least it did. By now I'm sure that things are much better, and even Gnome works to some degree on the BSDs.

      Of course the Mac isn't too well supported, because as you say the native GUI is good. But when I'm working with X apps sometimes, I'm annoyed by the Quartz WM, so I prefer to run it as a native full-screen X environment.

    21. Re:no offense... by dusterl · · Score: 1

      No. You just missed the point of my reply. You tried to proof your point of view with wrong assumptions. That just makes no sense at all.

    22. Re:no offense... by Ulrich+Hobelmann · · Score: 1

      Could you be more specific? What does open source do well? What don't Windows or the Mac do at all?

      My post was - if you read it - about me being able to run a full Unix/X11 environment right there on my Mac, with one click. If I want back to the Mac GUI, it's just another keypress.

      Unlike Linux, the Mac OS supports all hardware. If Gnome doesn't fully run on the Mac, that's as I already mentioned, due to its reliance on Linuxness of the system. Other software runs on the Mac without any problems; because it's *100% portable*. Unpack and compile, that's it.

    23. Re:no offense... by Mistshadow2k4 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      but let's be honest. "You've probably heard the quote, "BSD is for people that love Unix; Linux is for people that hate Windows."

      Okay, I'm being honest. I actually never have heard that before. I hate Windows and MS because my first computer came with Windows ME and I feel that I was totally screwed. If I'd wanted a Mac I'd have gotten one.

      "Many Linux users have no particular loyalty to Linux and would just as soon use something else. "

      Funny, but I've been thinking the exact opposite, that too many of them are rather blindly loyal to their distro of choice. Mepis retail will require a serial number to update soon, for example, and the serial number is tied to the MAC address of your computer. This means that you'll have to fill out a form to update if you switch computers and that they can refuse to allow you uto update. It also means that you can only use your copy on one machine; even Linspire lets you use one copy on up to 5 computers in your home IIRC. We *nix users have been telling people for years that you don't have to put with this kind of treatment from MS but the Mepis folks are loyal enough to think this is a good idea for Mepis for some reason, even though Mepis has been known for some time as having problems with bug-squashing. As I posted at Distrowatch, why bother with this when there are other distros that are more stable and free? But the Mepis people are loyal.

      Much the same can be said for the Libranet people; Libranet was more stable but it was also expensive, and the only original code the developers came up with they've refused to share with the Linux community even though their product was over 90% based on Debian's GPL code. Now that Libranet has been discontinued the adminmenu has remained closed-source. Why the lead developer's son refused to share with the community their product was based on, I don't know. But the Libranet users have remained quite loyal to them. And don't get me started about Mandriva.

      "More than a few people from my local LUG have installed a bootlegged copy of the OSx86 beta. One of our members showed off his toshiba laptop running OS X, which was quite popular, even among the old school unix types."

      Why they bother is beyond me. Oh wait, I do know - bragging rights. That's what a MAC is apparently all about as Apple fanboys spend so much time bragging on how great it is. One would think if it was so perfectly functioal they'd spend more time using it. "Plus I have a system that everyone envies!" was one post I read at Digg. C'mon, admit it- we all know that's really why people want a Mac.

      "While we may protest that KDE or GNOME are better than OS X, the collective orgasm when Apple announced an OSx86 show that free (beer) beats free (speech)"

      Really? I don't remember having an orgasm over OSX. I have had plenty of orgasms since it was released, but my thoughts at the time had nothing to with OSX (or even computers, for that matter). The media and people at Digg have been fawning over it and they seem to think that everyone in the world wants a Mac. They're wrong; give me a Mac and I'll sell it and use the money to upgrade my AMD running Linux, thank you very much.

      "It doesn't really matter what features or eye candy KDE or GNOME add, because OS X does it better. "

      I disagree. I don't like OSX's cluttered UI and I don't like vendor lock-in. With KDE I can remove the icons and have everything on auto-hide if I want to. And sometimes I do; if I wanted all this junk on my dekstop why would I bother using a wallpaer? Plus it's convenient to get everything out of my way when I'm multi-tasking. Apple has a lot of great eye-candy if you don't mind it being in your way, but I do mind. And when I want eye candy KDE has plenty enough of it to satisfy me. Plus I want freedom of choice, not what Apple chooses for me. Kde lets me choose when I wan the eye candy, how I want it to look, but only when I want it.

      --
      I dream of a better world... one in which chickens can cross roads without their motives being questioned.
    24. Re:no offense... by arevos · · Score: 1
      You're the exception.

      I'm another. I prefer KDE over GNOME, OS X and XP. Given that KDE is one of the largest open source projects in active development, I suspect myself and the grandparent poster aren't alone in prefer KDE over the alternatives.

    25. Re:no offense... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, sure that Apple X11 is an XFree fork, but that's all.

      It don't run all X apps flawlessly (gnome,xscreensaver ?), not uses the same rendering subsystem.
      The apple X11 implementation is as closed source as it can be. Some "improvements" (the bulk of them apple says) have been opened and donated to XFree, but some other are "closed". The "source code" that they offer you to download lacks the window manager and some libs (where the "dark stuff" happens).

      But if you don't believe me, just try it. Install xorg or some recen XFree package and run gnome. Even the commercial XDarwin. See the difference?

    26. Re:no offense... by KaeloDest · · Score: 1

      Dont Worry Build KDE inside of OS X. You can say free 'beer' v. free 'speech' all you want. I like my iApps nothing beats the apple 'Pro' apps (like Final Cut Pro and such) but when I have to choose between 'Warez (MS Office \Adobe CS and Starry Night ) and running KDE concurrently with OSX the answer is simple.
                Nobody is forcing anyone to not run a Linux Desktop just follow a basic Mac idea. 'I use it because it works' or 'It just gets out of my way and lets me get the job done' KDE inside of OS X rawks!

      --
      --Shaddup and support your local PBS station Plan for it
    27. Re:no offense... by YooHoo2U2 · · Score: 1
      I totally agree. Only thing interesting in these is that they're open source. They look like OSX / windows, they act like OSX / windows: there's no innovation there besides the openness of the source code. Everything is a copy of something that already exists. In fact, it amuses me how Linux is _now_ starting to look like windows xp.

      You know, there is no winning this argument. If Gnome or KDE applications follow the UI design standards of Windows or OSX, they are damned for "not being innovative". If they *don't* follow the Windows/OSX way of doing things, they are damned for being "too unfamiliar" or "Joe Sixpack will never understand it". In the end, KDE/Gnome/Linux, etc. simply are what they are: an alternative. In some cases superior, short of the mark in others. The truly important thing is that you are not forced to use either one -- just pick the one you like and get back to work.
    28. Re:no offense... by Fred_A · · Score: 1

      While I like using my iBook (mostly because all the harware works flawlessly and it has good battery life and it was a fairly cheap laptop), I too find my KDE workstation to be *way* more comfortable to use than the Mac (or Windows although I can't say I use it beyond repairing it for friends every now and then).

      The virtual desktops, the KIOslaves and the sloppy focus are a few examples that make life much easier. The Mac may have a few more polished gadgets but I certainly miss my Linux box when I'm stuck with it.

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
    29. Re:no offense... by anothy · · Score: 1
      ...my first computer came with Windows ME...
      holy crap i'm old...
      --

      i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
    30. Re:no offense... by Fred_A · · Score: 1
      I know a few Linux people who also own an Apple laptop. I recomended one to my sister as well. But people aren't abandoning Linux, unless they are non-technical people satisfied with an alternative.


      In my sort-of-usergroup , lots of people, me included have Apple laptops. The reason is simply that we wanted a Unixy laptop that worked, had decent battery life and was cheap. Unfortunately getting everything to work with Linux on a laptop can often be an exercise in frustration, especially since it's not easy to know beforehand which version of each component you're going to get.

      When I chatted with the other "apple users" during our latest reunion, nobody cared much about the Apple OS. The consensus was that everyone would switch back to a proper system the minute they felt laptop support was decent enough.

      And yes, I know you can more or less get a laptop to work in Linux. However it's not seamless as it should be. You should be able to close it and let it go to sleep, you should have proper battery management, etc. Currently while you can sometimes get these to work, it's typically not worth the hassle. We no longer have weeks to spend on getting a piece of kit to work (and I know you can get lucky and have it work out of the box, it's not what usually happens though).
      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
    31. Re:no offense... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No intuitive meaning.. How much more intuitive do you want?
      GAIM = Gay Ass Instant Messaging.
      GIMP = Good Image Manipulation Program
      Evolution = A step up the ladder from it's nearest mail competitor.(Yes it doesn't really mean e-mail/calendar, but neither does Outlook.. Would be nicer if it was named Kmail, but that was taken by an evolutionary dead-end. :-) {Yes that's a joke} )

      And by your criteria of selecting Win 95, I'm guessing you really should be using an abacus. It just works. And it crashes less then Win 95... Well unless you're afflicted with palsy.

    32. Re:no offense... by Shawn+is+an+Asshole · · Score: 1

      When I get home, the last thing I want is to figure out why my network card isn't working after the latest upgrade.

      Have you even used Linux in the last 6 or so years? I use Linux on three machines at home, and manage several dozen at work. The only problems I ever had with hardware not working after an update was with propreitary drivers (nVidia). And that's not even an issue any more thanks to Livna.

      I'm not interested in finding out that I need to upgrade 15 different libraries before I can upgrade KDE--because I've been doing it all day long. I just want to get on my computer and do what I've got to do.

      Yeah, running "yum update" is the most difficult thing in the world to do (or use the default nightly update). Are you using a souce based distro or something? If you using something like Fedora, Suse, Mandriva, Ubuntu, etc the dependecies are handled automatically.

      --
      "It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
    33. Re:no offense... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unlike Linux, the Mac OS supports all hardware

      But... Mac OS still refuses to work in my ACER Laptop

      Hmmmm.... Maybe Acer is not hardware...

    34. Re:no offense... by i_should_be_working · · Score: 1

      It was your higher up post I was responding to, sorry.

      GNOME, and open source apps in general being platform dependent is not sad (or true, but that's another argument). GNOME apps running at all in your Mac environment is no small feat. Closed source are completely platform dependent.

    35. Re:no offense... by sonixtwo · · Score: 1

      Many of the people on Digg are Mac fanboys, due to the fact that Leo Laporte, Amber Macarthur and many other people associated with Kevin Rose and Digg all praise Macs very highly.

    36. Re:no offense... by i_should_be_working · · Score: 1

      Also, weird: all this time I thought I couldn't post as myself in an article where I had already modded someone. Guess it's the other way around, can't mod in a thread I've already posted in?

    37. Re:no offense... by Ulrich+Hobelmann · · Score: 1

      I don't know why Gnome would LOOK better. On Apple's X11 it looks great, and X11 is only about the screen and keyboard and mouse. It only doesn't work in some areas where Gnome obviously accesses hardware in some way.

    38. Re:no offense... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And don't get me started about Mandriva.

      I'd quite like to get you started on Mandriva. I use it and I have no problems with either their licensing or their software - what's your objection?

    39. Re:no offense... by DarkSarin · · Score: 1

      Off topic, and all that, but...

      You _cannot_ mod a topic in which you have already posted. Period.

      You _can_ post in a topic that you have already moderated--but *only* if you are willing to have your mod points wasted. Posting in a topic you have moderated results in the moderation being removed--and you don't get the mod points back. This is to prevent abuses.

      It is a reasonably safe system.

      --
      "We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
    40. Re:no offense... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Plus I have a system that everyone envies!" was one post I read at Digg. C'mon, admit it- we all know that's really why people want a Mac.

      Amazing that this trolled was modded +5 Insightful. I wonder if posting "we all know you only use KDE to prove your leetness" will garner a similar response.

      If you were serious, well I agree that KDE has many advantages, but simplicity and lack of irritating distractions is probably not one of them (many KDE users would agree that it has a multiude of unnecessary menus, icons, toolbars and overlapping settings). If you really need an austere desktop to get work done, why not use something like Fluxbox?

    41. Re:no offense... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a saddo....get over yerself.
      And stop saying "I" so damn often.
      Score:5, Insightful - what a joke! You're too young to have any insight into user interface usability and too hooked into the outcome that everything from Apple must suck.

      Slashdot triumphs again..

    42. Re:no offense... by SiChemist · · Score: 1

      I guess that I'm exceptional too :-)

      I greatly prefer KDE to any other desktop including OS X.

      --
      God is imaginary
    43. Re:no offense... by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      That's funny. The Linux distributions that I use are precompiled and worked on by people other than me. Linux is starting to look like Windows XP? I hope not! Does Windows XP have native multiple desktops yet?

      As for everything being a copy of something, what's so original about OSX/Windows?

    44. Re:no offense... by i_should_be_working · · Score: 1

      Ah. Thanks for the insight.

    45. Re:no offense... by evil_tandem · · Score: 1
      After reading your post i'm asking myself why you would use OSX if those were your requirements?

      I had a mac. i spent most of my time wondering why i couldn't get a particular behavior to change. the other half the time i was trying to find some mundane piece of software that would do something all my windows pc's could do with about 100 different products, some of which would be freeware (i still have gps-software nightmares).

      then my windows pc's all had over double the specs, and cost on average about 1/2 as much.

      and everyone is always touting mac hardware. all i can say is i have never had such a fickle wireless device in any machine ever. whenever i went somewhere i had say a 50/50 chance that the laptop would connect to it. i even had one d-link product that connecting the mac would actually crash the router. in fairness i don't know if that was apple or the routers fault, but every single windows machine i threw at it worked fine. so regardless of who's fault it was, i can tell you who's fault i perceive it to be (how can all my other pc's be wrong?).

      windows used to have problems, but those days are long past. everyone releases windows versions of everything. i can dual boot to any OS but OSX (and now even that is changing). i can run virtual machines if i really need something unixy and don't want to dual-boot.

      if someone tried to sell me a car that only ran on OSX roads (of which there were say 4 nation wide), had no features, and was incompatable with everyone else's gas pumps, roads, tires, etc... i'd tell them to take a hike. why is your computer any different?

      they managed to sell you a slower pc that doesn't run lots of standard software for more money than any x86 vendor could dream and you smiled all the way home. THAT my friend, is marketing at it's finest.

    46. Re:no offense... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Flame me if you will
      OK, you're a felching cockmuncher. Have a nice day :)
    47. Re:no offense... by juhaz · · Score: 1

      I don't know about KDE, but Gnome seems very much platform dependent to me (as does much modern open-source software, sadly). It runs perfectly on Linux, but on my Mac there are lots of problems.

      Every now and then, someone pops up in freenode ##gnome with OS X problems, and almost every time it turns out they are using fink, and the problems are because fink "unstable" has an awful mess of packages from plethora of different gnome versions (2.6, 2.8, 2.10 and 2.12). It shouldn't be a huge surprise that GNOME 2.6 apps don't work very well with 2.12 libraries and vice versa, but it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the platform.

    48. Re:no offense... by Ulrich+Hobelmann · · Score: 1

      Well, I run Darwinports.

      $ port installed | grep gnome
          gnome-applets @2.12.2_0 (active)
          gnome-backgrounds @2.12.2_0 (active)
          gnome-desktop @2.12.2_0 (active)
          gnome-desktop-suite @2.12_0
          gnome-doc-utils @0.5.3_0 (active)
          gnome-games @2.12.2_0 (active)
          gnome-icon-theme @2.12.1_0 (active)
          gnome-keyring @0.4.6_0 (active)
          gnome-mag @0.12.3_0 (active)
          gnome-menus @2.12.0_0 (active)
          gnome-mime-data @2.4.2_0 (active)
          gnome-panel @2.12.2_0 (active)
          gnome-platform-suite @2.12_0 (active)
          gnome-session @2.12.0_0 (active)
          gnome-speech @0.3.9_0 (active)
          gnome-system-monitor @2.12.2_0 (active)
          gnome-terminal @2.12.0_0 (active)
          gnome-themes @2.12.1_0 (active)
          gnome-utils @2.12.2_0 (active)
          gnome-vfs @2.12.2_0 (active)
          gnome2-user-docs @2.8.1_0 (active)
          libgail-gnome @1.1.2_0 (active)
          libgnome @2.12.0.1_0 (active)
          libgnomecanvas @2.12.0_0 (active)
          libgnomecups @0.2.2_0 (active)
          libgnomeprint @2.12.1_0 (active)
          libgnomeprintui @2.12.1_0 (active)
          libgnomeui @2.12.0_0 (active)

    49. Re:no offense... by tres · · Score: 1

      And just what do you do when the application that you need to install isn't in your distribution's binary repository?

      compile.

      And what do you do when you when the application you need to compile requires versions of libraries that aren't distributed?

      "yum update" is just not an option.

      --
      Notes From Under *nix: blas.phemo.us
    50. Re:no offense... by tres · · Score: 1


      Alright flameboy.

      Your arguments against the Mac UI are purely personal preference. You like blue better than red, you like menu bars on bottom, you like 28 virtual desktops... who cares. It's your decision.

      Sorry, but screwing around with the "look and feel" of my desktop just isn't something I have time for; if that's really important to you, then you may be able to think hard enough to find applications that do the things you've said you "can't" do.

      Keep trying to figure out the best "look and feel" for your desktop. The rest of us just have better things to do.

      --
      Notes From Under *nix: blas.phemo.us
    51. Re:no offense... by Shawn+is+an+Asshole · · Score: 1

      And just what do you do when the application that you need to install isn't in your distribution's binary repository?

      Use the AutoPackage. If there isn't one, request one from the developers.

      --
      "It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
    52. Re:no offense... by tres · · Score: 1


      Compiling isn't the problem, it's when the application you're attempting to compile requires later versions of the libraries than you have installed & your vendor prefers to patch older versions than provide new versions (read RHEL).

      AutoPackage, that's cool. I hadn't seen that before. But it seems to me that requesting modifications from developers is not a very stable way of ensuring that you get what you need.

      --
      Notes From Under *nix: blas.phemo.us
  21. sources? by cg0def · · Score: 1

    Am I mistaken or is everybody posting KDE 4 screenshots all of a sudden? Also what I would like to know is how certain is it that these are screenshots of what is actually going to be in KDE 4 ( vanilla maybe ) and not some concept that a dev is working on? Seen a lot of the latter ones so it is a fair question. Other than that KDE 4 is shaping up to be a fairly large step up so I think I like it.

    1. Re:sources? by LaurenBC · · Score: 4, Interesting
      It's worth noting one of the screenshots has the word 'fake' in it, and to quote an anonymous poster on the forum these were posted on
      'I don't want to burst any bubbles, but I just thought I'd mention that these are certainly not screenshots of KDE in developement. These are just ideas posted as mockup, some of which have been around for a long time'

      hmph.
      --
      I don't need this, I've got a Master's Degree in folklore and mythology!
  22. OOooo, Peerrrrtyyyy by Scott+Swezey · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ok, those -DO- look sweet, but the actual graphics are really the least of my concerns for a window manager. I would rather see it be very fast an responsive, clean, easy to understand, and setup up intellegently so that even my mother or grandparents can use it.

    Oh ya, let's hope they ditch the two part windowsish looking start menu thing. First thing I did in XP was disable that... Instead lets see smart toolbars / menu's / buttons / etc.

    --
    Scott Swezey
    1. Re:OOooo, Peerrrrtyyyy by Bwian_of_Nazareth · · Score: 1

      KDE is not a Window Manager. KDE is a suite of applications, a desktop environment. Yes, part of that is kwin, KDE window manager.

      The start button is part of kicker, KDE panel. You can easily turn it off or customise it to fit your needs.

      BTW, there is currently no KDE 4.0, not even in alpha, KDE is being ported on the library level.

    2. Re:OOooo, Peerrrrtyyyy by Scott+Swezey · · Score: 1

      All good points, but I think they also strengthen my point. Don't get me wrong, I am -good- with computers, when people I know have issues, they call me and I usualy get it fixed, and I am even doing well in my CS classes. But still, these things need to come down a few more levels to go main stream. (Not that they should cut down on what is there, it's great that anyone who wants to can go even further and actually understand what is going on... But for the most part, I just want mine to work, well.)

      --
      Scott Swezey
    3. Re:OOooo, Peerrrrtyyyy by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

      You can fairly easily (well, "fairly easily" for some is another man's frustration) configure KDE to look as un-Windowsish as you want. E.g., it will do a context-sensitive screen-top menubar similar to MacOS's, and you can move the KDE menu of applications anyplace you want, or get rid of it completely. (I keep it in the upper left hand corner of the screen, personally.) There are some people who have gone so far as to basically duplicate the MacOS "Aqua" look within KDE: like this.

      My problem with KDE is that the documentation is .... somewhat lacking. Or at least I couldn't find the answers to questions very easily -- it took me more than a week to figure out how to move the menus around in the screen-top menubar when they got stuck on the right hand side. (They sometimes jump over there for no good reason whatsoever when you add another applet.)

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    4. Re:OOooo, Peerrrrtyyyy by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Ok, those -DO- look sweet, but the actual graphics are really the least of my concerns for a window manager. I would rather see it be very fast an responsive, clean, easy to understand, and setup up intellegently so that even my mother or grandparents can use it.

      Try Ratpoison. Can't get much more minimalistic than that :).

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  23. No more cache links pls! by slashdotmsiriv · · Score: 0

    If I see one more post about the /. effect on the site I will start screaming!

  24. mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    mirror mirror on net!

    I can't access this site yet! ;)

    1. Re:mirror by iangreen · · Score: 1

      http://www.smashkins.com/forum/showthread.php?p=49 3#post493

  25. Why is this moderated up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    let's be honest. You've probably heard the quote, "BSD is for people that love Unix; Linux is for people that hate Windows." The sad truth is, it's true. Many Linux users have no particular loyalty to Linux and would just as soon use something else. While we may protest that KDE or GNOME are better than OS X, the collective orgasm when Apple announced an OSx86 show that free (beer) beats free (speech).

    More than a few people from my local LUG have installed a bootlegged copy of the OSx86 beta. One of our members showed off his toshiba laptop running OS X, which was quite popular, even among the old school unix types.

    It doesn't really matter what features or eye candy KDE or GNOME add, because OS X does it better. Flame me if you will, but I've been using Linux and BSD for over a decade now. An OS is a tool, I want one that works, and I think most people feel the same way.

    Wow, it's startling to me how many words you can use and say nothing.

    First off, both KDE and GNOME will run in *BSD, making your distinction between users mostly irrelevent. Second, the links in this story are mockups of KDE. KDE. Not OS X. So let's break down the actual content of your moderated "insightful" post, shall we? It says (1) BSD and Linux have different users (2) your friends have installed OS X on x86. (3) OS X is better. (4) You want an OS that works...whatever that's supposed to mean. I guess we can distill your comments to something like "Hey, I like OS X better than KDE or GNOME!" Okay...

    "Offtopic" isn't exactly right for your post. Neither is "troll". If only there were a "insipid", "bland", or "uninsightful".

    Let's be honest. If there is any value to your post, it's that hopfully some of the mods can learn something about what not to mod up.

    1. Re:Why is this moderated up? by twistedcubic · · Score: 1


      Wow, it's startling to me how many words you can use and say nothing.

      But, even though he says nothing, he says it so well.

  26. Poof! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And even quicker.. they have disappeared.

  27. Tiiiiime, is on our side. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone notice these are almost a month old?

  28. New Slashdot gimmicks by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1, Funny

    While waiting for the smoldering heap of plastic at planetdiaz to recover, I looked a bit around, and noticed the new "Related Stories" widget. Is this filled in automatically? If it is, it will become seriously funny when a dupe shows up.

    1. Re:New Slashdot gimmicks by Sigg3.net · · Score: 1

      Cowboy Neal has taken his precations.

      In the html:
      <p class="dupe">Insert-Dupe-story-link</p>

      And in the css:
      .dupe {visibility: hidden}

      --
      Defining Statistics and Social Research
  29. this is crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    these images at BEST are mock ups
    i talked to siego at SCaLE and he said there wont even be anything close to a beta until summer

    1. Re:this is crap by cammoblammo · · Score: 1

      But this is summer! Oh hang on, you're up north...

      --

      Cogito, ergo sig.

  30. Cultural differences? by Nahooda · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You know Slashdot is american based when you read all the negative comments about KDE.

    Over here in Germany it's enormously popular.

    Must be some kind of clash of civilizations...

    I'm using it, too, as I like the integration of apps and window manager. On the negative side, the high level of integration can be security problem as Windows shows.

    -DBS

    --
    Sigs suck!
    1. Re:Cultural differences? by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 0, Troll

      Erotic movies featuring tons of shitting are also wildly popular in Germany. As are BMWs and Budweiser.

      I don't think that Germany is the place to be looking for examples of good taste.

    2. Re:Cultural differences? by layer3switch · · Score: 1

      If that is true, shouldn't Slashdot comments also be negative against Linux? After all, Linus T. is NOT from America.

      Although there is culture clash... nothing to do with Nationality but culture clash between GUI vs CLI, KDE vs GNOME, Linux vs BSD, Microsoft vs OSS, and oh yeah ... MacOSX vs not-so-attractive yet smarter people.

      Give me Slashdot or Give me Sex! ...

      --
      "Don't let fools fool you. They are the clever ones."
    3. Re:Cultural differences? by ardor · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Then again, after drinking US coffee and US beer, it becomes quite clear that the USA is not the place to be looking for examples of good taste either. :)

      --
      This sig does not contain any SCO code.
    4. Re:Cultural differences? by layer3switch · · Score: 1

      Budweiser is American beer.. made by American brewer... founded by Ameri.. ok, you get the picture... and I'm missing the point.

      --
      "Don't let fools fool you. They are the clever ones."
    5. Re:Cultural differences? by mute47 · · Score: 1

      Dear god, that is a BadAnology....

      --
      Don't mind me, I'm just carping the diem...
    6. Re:Cultural differences? by layer3switch · · Score: 2, Funny

      USA is not about good taste. It's about "great taste but less filling."

      --
      "Don't let fools fool you. They are the clever ones."
    7. Re:Cultural differences? by BigDuke6_swe · · Score: 1

      Well you also like David Hasselhoff, doesn't mean you're right.

      --
      Zere vere zwei peanuts valking down der Straße, and von vas assaulted...peanut
    8. Re:Cultural differences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet it's treated like a premium beer all across Europe. Fancy that!

    9. Re:Cultural differences? by m50d · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      It's the redhat FUD. Americans got taken in by the redhat "KDE sucks" marketing (which I presume was because redhat want more propriety apps on linux so people get used to paying for stuff, so they want gtk to be the dominant toolkit) and are trying to justify themselves.

      --
      I am trolling
    10. Re:Cultural differences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Founded by German immigrants, or at the least, close descendants. I live in this shithole town(STL), They taught in german in the outer counties till WWI.

    11. Re:Cultural differences? by GauteL · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I assure you, it has very little to do with that. All KDE or GNOME discussions on Slashdot get completely swamped with trolls from the "other side".

      The loaded comment at the end of the news snippet is literally engineered to create this controversy. The more people that come on here to troll, the more money Slashdot gets.

      "I don't know what the Gnome guys are up to, but KDE is starting to look seriously cool."

      Puh-leeeeease. Could it get more obvious?

    12. Re:Cultural differences? by tbien · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      The *real* Budweiser maybe... The one made in Czech http://www.budweiser.cz/budvar/budvar-web/product/ produkt_eng.html.

    13. Re:Cultural differences? by SpaghettiPattern · · Score: 1

      Must be some kind of clash of civilizations...

      Hey Gerhard, your assuming them yanks is civilized.
      (Dear Mr. Kraut, you're assuming the inhabitants of the United States of America are civilised.)

      Now watch my karma burning purple...

      --

      I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
    14. Re:Cultural differences? by coma_bug · · Score: 1

      Must be some kind of clash of civilizations...

      Yeah... soon there'll be embassies burning because of these screenshots.

    15. Re:Cultural differences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm somewhat confused. Are the spelling rules of British English supposed to be more civilized than the spelling rules of American English?

    16. Re:Cultural differences? by minus9 · · Score: 1

      What absolute twaddle.

    17. Re:Cultural differences? by Nahooda · · Score: 1
      Yeah... soon there'll be embassies burning because of these screenshots.

      Not until the GNOME guys release some disgusting KDE cartoons...

      -DBS

      --
      Sigs suck!
    18. Re:Cultural differences? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      which I presume was because redhat want more propriety apps on linux so people get used to paying for stuff, so they want gtk to be the dominant toolkit)

      Of course! That's why Redhat has absolutely ZERO proprietary apps in their catalog.

      And you talk about FUD? What a troll...

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    19. Re:Cultural differences? by CmdrGravy · · Score: 1

      In much the same way that White Lightening is considered to be "premium" cider throughout the West Country, or Claymore and Jacobite are premium Whiskys in Scotland.

    20. Re:Cultural differences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Balls. I'm British and a fan of Gnome, and this has nothing to do with what Redhat says. While neither toolkit (GTK/Qt) can hold a candle to Mac OS X in terms of looks, the one Gnome uses is certainly the more aesthetically pleasing.

    21. Re:Cultural differences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm from Europe and I don't use KDE, so I suppose that completly destroys your theory that KDE is my desktop choice because I'm a Euro. KDE is not at all being only developed in Europe, they have quite a lot of developers in the US, same with Gnome, so please take your crap elsewhere, it doesn't help anyone.

    22. Re:Cultural differences? by 10101001+10101001 · · Score: 1

      You know Slashdot is american based when you read all the negative comments about KDE.

      Over here in Germany it's enormously popular.

      I didn't realize there was such enormous group think in the US and Germany.

      Must be some kind of clash of civilizations...

      Or various people who speak up about things they don't like.

      I'm using it, too, as I like the integration of apps and window manager.

      I did, for a while. But it so happens that I like icewm better--there's various stuff that both KDE and IceWM do "wrong" (ie, not how I want), and it's simpler to fix IceWM than KDE (a lot less compiling is involved). Both Gnome and KDE apps irk me, though, as even their simple apps (gedit/kedit) take a while to load thanks to a gaggle of libraries. *sigh*

      On the negative side, the high level of integration can be security problem as Windows shows.

      Yes, and it's one of the places I'd said it's actually valid in *nix land to compare against Windows. It's one reason I rather worry about KDE, even though it's pretty amazing in all other regards.

      --
      Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
    23. Re:Cultural differences? by nutshell42 · · Score: 1
      SuSE had KDE as standard, Redhat used Gnome. On both the other DE sucked so bad that their users were convinced it was a POS. Over time it went beyond logical arguments (like nationalism or vi vs. emacs) and became a holy war and as those long-time Linux users are the people that convert new users to Linux it took on a life of its own.

      Personally I used KDE as DE (more consistent, better integrated, better file manager) but apart from that mostly Gnome apps (let's face it in the 1.4 days most KDE apps sucked while Gnome apps got the work done). Aah the blessings of enough RAM. Unfortunately the KDE apps became much better while too many Gnome apps got crippled in the name of "usability" leaving me with KDE only and a bit of enlightenment now and then for old times' sake =)

      --
      Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
    24. Re:Cultural differences? by dbIII · · Score: 1
      Must be some kind of clash of civilizations...
      Well, there was a guy who wanted to implement his own version of MS Windows from the registry up on linux (not unix) that didn't have a clue how X or *nix worked but liked some bits out of gimp and a guy who hated commercial software even when it eventaully used the licence he wrote himself. Between them they stirred up a stink about KDE - but in the end reason prevailed and we are left with a couple of decent cross platform environments for X run by developers.

      If some of the people involved had actually read the qt licence instead of only bitching about the fact it wasn't GPL we probably wouldn't have had gnome, and KDE may not have been inspired to be much more than CDE is.

    25. Re:Cultural differences? by lahvak · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Ehm, wrong on all counts. Budweiser is not American beer, it is not made by American brewer, it is not founded by Americans. It is Czech beer, made in Czech brewer, founded by Germans. Oh, you are talking about that ...whatever you call it... I didn't know you guys call that "beer".

      --
      AccountKiller
    26. Re:Cultural differences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Must be some kind of clash of civilizations..."

      Heh, except there is only one real _civilization_ in your comparison. Germany is a real civilization whereas USA is definitely not.

    27. Re:Cultural differences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One can say a lot of funny things about the Germans (shitting, invading Europe, wearing pastel pants), but claiming they like to drink bad beer seems a little retarded.

    28. Re:Cultural differences? by HairyCanary · · Score: 1
      I'm starting to wonder why there are any people on the Gnome side. Three times per day I have to kill gconfd-2, evolution, and clock-applet, or my workstation will crash when it runs out of memory. I am impressed with software that can suck down a gigabyte of real memory and another gigabyte of swap in the space of a few hours. And all three pieces of software are part of Gnome.

      I have already come up with a solution. Hint: KDE

    29. Re:Cultural differences? by rca66 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Over here in Germany it's enormously popular.

      Must be some kind of clash of civilizations...

      Yes, and the moment the first carricatures of KDE appear in American newspapers, the US embassy in Berlin will be burnt down.

    30. Re:Cultural differences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahah! Your cunt! Your assuming them yanks is civilized? A? BOLLOCKS!

    31. Re:Cultural differences? by m50d · · Score: -1, Flamebait

      How so? It's drab brown, looks far too flat and dull, like hospital walls. Qt is far more chromey and futuristic, and looks much better for a computer.

      --
      I am trolling
    32. Re:Cultural differences? by m50d · · Score: 1

      No, that's why Redhat was for a while the only Linux you could officially run e.g. Oracle on (don't know if it still is).

      --
      I am trolling
    33. Re:Cultural differences? by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Its preference.

      Duh.

      I like Gnome better, period (with E17, to be honest).

      A coworker definately prefers KDE.

      I don't think KDE sucks -- it works, I just don't like it.

      He doesn't like Gnome.

      Wow ... exciting.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    34. Re:Cultural differences? by courtarro · · Score: 1
      You're completely right. Practically all posts about controversial subjects these days require the final tagline comment or question that is literally flamebait. "Is Linux really that feasible in the home?", or "Would anyone actually do this to their computer?", or "Can Slashdotters really not get dates?". When I see those final taglines, I skip over the comments section for that article; it's just not worth anyone's time to see the canned responses that ran through everyone's head, but only one person managed to post within the first 20 seconds of the article's release (everything after that is modded -1 Redundant). I rather enjoy the articles that are now shown as folded headlines on the front page since the reduced popularity seems to improve the SNR of the discussion.

      Happy VD Day!

    35. Re:Cultural differences? by Guido+von+Guido · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      I didn't know you guys call that "beer".

      Many of us don't, actually. Unfortunately we're in the minority.

      One of my favorite breweries is run by a guy who used to be a Production Supervisor for Anheuser-Busch. So not everything that comes out of Anhueser-Busch is bad--only the bottled products.

    36. Re:Cultural differences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah, perhaps if youre 12

    37. Re:Cultural differences? by sconeu · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Then again, after drinking US coffee ...

      Obviously, you have never had pure Kona coffee. IMHO it gives Jamaican Blue Mountain a run for its money.

      Kona is in Hawaii, which is part of the US.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    38. Re:Cultural differences? by filesiteguy · · Score: 1

      Eh, there are a few of us here in the US who also think Gnome (and the GTK+ apps in general) look like heaping piles of doggy do.

      Whenever I fire up a GTK+ app, which includes GIMP on my WinXP system, I simply cringe. Hell, Motif-themed Java apps look better.

      Also, every time I've tried to get a Gnome desktop usable while ignorning the uglyness I simply give up in frustration.

      --
      The Kai's Semi-Updated Website Thingy
    39. Re:Cultural differences? by Guido+von+Guido · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      It's the brand, not the beer--showing once again that a sucker is indeed born every minute.

    40. Re:Cultural differences? by m50d · · Score: -1, Troll

      Fine, but then explain why more Americans have a preference for gnome.

      --
      I am trolling
    41. Re:Cultural differences? by m50d · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      What, because once you go past that age your life becomes so dull and boring that dull and boring is all you want?

      --
      I am trolling
    42. Re:Cultural differences? by level_headed_midwest · · Score: 1

      Eh, most Linux users I know use KDE (as do I), and I am about as in the middle of America as you can get. I do know Gnome users too. The overarching reason for somebody to pick one over the other is because they want to use $DISTRO and $DE is the native one on $DISTRO.

      --
      Just "gittin-r-done," day after day.
    43. Re:Cultural differences? by jbolden · · Score: 1

      The people who started the "bitching" about the QT license with respect to KDE was Debian Legal. I assure you they read licenses very carefully. There were real issues, they have been completely resolved but they wouldn't have been resolved without the Debian analysis. Further Gnome is allowing the Linux GUI to develop in two different directions at the same time.

      Corporate user vs. poweruser
      friendly to commercial apps vs. hostile to commercial apps
      language independent (and thus complex and low power) vs. language dependent

      etc...

      This is what open source is all about allowing for experimentation that both sides are going to learn from.

    44. Re:Cultural differences? by alphamugwump · · Score: 1

      I'll agree that gnome looks a bit bland, but it sounds like you've never used anything other than the default theme. You must be using an old version, too, beause the default in 2.12 is clearlooks and the default for windows is WIMP (I think).

    45. Re:Cultural differences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      agreed,

      I am only here because I'm digging for a screen shot mirror.

    46. Re:Cultural differences? by Nahooda · · Score: 1
      Well you also like David Hasselhoff

      Waahh, untrue prejudice! On the other side... "Looking for Freedom" is a great party song.

      -DBS

      --
      Sigs suck!
    47. Re:Cultural differences? by filesiteguy · · Score: 1

      It is more than just "bland." In fact, I'm right now on WinXP and have the "classic" style selected because I'm not one for eye candy.

      Here's a screenshot of Clearlook from sourceforge.

      http://clearlooks.sourceforge.net/screenshots/clea rlooks-0.5_1.png

      I find that - whenever I look at GTK+ items on KDE, Gnome, BB, or WinXP/2K - I feel like the panels and icons are out of focus. It is almost a strain to look at them. They're just not sharp and they always blur into the background in a wierd way.

      --
      The Kai's Semi-Updated Website Thingy
    48. Re:Cultural differences? by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Corporations tend to prefer Gtk over Qt, because Qt is more expensive. This is because the license of Qt is such that if you even might ever want to release a non-GPL version of your product, you must develop in the commercial version of Qt and with the commercial libraries from the start. You can't convert later.

      If you are only doing FOSS programming, this doesn't make any difference, but if you MIGHT want to dual-license, it's vital.

      That said, to me the main thing seriously wrong with Gnome is their wretched excuse for a menu editor. I'll admit it's better than not, but not by much. (OTOH, this defect means that I've never used a recent version of Gnome for any extensive period of time. So I wouldn't know about any subtler defect.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    49. Re:Cultural differences? by pthisis · · Score: 1

      The only piece of either desktop I've used that sucks down memory like that is konquerer, which crashes randomly on every 5th site I hit (and it'll load a site fine sometimes and crash on the same site at others) and leaks memory like mad if it manages to stay up. I can't fault it too much, since firefox (for me) also bleeds memory like mad and has to be restarted every couple of days, though epiphany is memory-stable (pointing to the problem being in XUL or some other front-end piece rather than gecko) and the UI is far more responsive than firefox's.

      Gnome certainly isn't lightweight, but it's memory-stable for me (I can run for months at a time without restarting it or having severe memory problems).

      I've basically switched to epiphany (with all the crap it drags in) + XFCE since I don't use a lot of Gnome whizz-bang anyway and XFCE is much lighter weight.

      It certainly seems to me like a case of YMMV depending on exactly which versions and libraries you're using--I know plenty of people who have no problems with KDE and can't keep Gnome up, and vice-versa. :-/

      --
      rage, rage against the dying of the light
    50. Re:Cultural differences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you were really british you would've spelled it 'civilised'.

    51. Re:Cultural differences? by ajs · · Score: 1

      Hi, I'm not sure if I'm feeding a troll or not, but gconf and clock-applet have never seen any problems on my FC1,2,3, or 4 machines. However, evolution CAN have some memory problems. Specficially, evolution seems to run spamassassin (which it uses to filter spam) in some kind of a strange mode that leaks memory like a sieve. I run a stock SA on my MTA, and never see this kind of memory leaking, but under FC4 with evolution running SA, I ran out of memory at home all the time.

      The easy workaround: kill spamd. spamd will just be re-started by evolution.

      The long-term fix might be to just do a full update, since I saw this problem a while back, but not in a few months.

      If you're not running Fedora, then I can't help you out much. I just don't use anything else, not that that's a good or bad thing, just what I know.

    52. Re:Cultural differences? by caluml · · Score: 1

      http://www.thecoronationtap.com/ -- Eeees werry good cider.

      --
      Get your own free personal location tracker
    53. Re:Cultural differences? by heinousjay · · Score: 1

      We don't, we prefer Aqua ;)

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    54. Re:Cultural differences? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      No, that's why Redhat was for a while the only Linux you could officially run e.g. Oracle on (don't know if it still is).

      And that is somehow Redhat's problem? Do you blame Chrysler if a bunch of bank-robbers use a chrysler mini-van as their get-away vehicle? Get real.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    55. Re:Cultural differences? by m50d · · Score: 1
      And that is somehow Redhat's problem?

      No, it's their business strategy.

      Do you blame Chrysler if a bunch of bank-robbers use a chrysler mini-van as their get-away vehicle?

      No. However, if the majority of chrysler mini-van owners happen to be bank robbers, then I do.

      --
      I am trolling
    56. Re:Cultural differences? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      No, it's their business strategy.

      Bullshit. So far you've got an example of one proprietary app from a 3rd party versus every single product that Redhat markets.

      No. However, if the majority of chrysler mini-van owners happen to be bank robbers, then I do.

      First, that's fucked up - such a claim without basis in any actual cause would be pure bullshit just as saying that every single child molester drinks water, thus water causes people to molest children.

      Second, your claims don't even fit your own criteria because the majority of applications that run on redhat are far and away Free, not proprietary.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    57. Re:Cultural differences? by m50d · · Score: 1
      First, that's fucked up - such a claim without basis in any actual cause would be pure bullshit just as saying that every single child molester drinks water, thus water causes people to molest children.

      No, it would be like if only child molesters drank water I would claim drinking water causes people to molest children.

      Second, your claims don't even fit your own criteria because the majority of applications that run on redhat are far and away Free, not proprietary.

      A bank robber isn't always robbing banks. The question is not whether most applications run on it are proprietary, but whether most users are running proprietary applications.

      --
      I am trolling
    58. Re:Cultural differences? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      The question is not whether most applications run on it are proprietary, but whether most users are running proprietary applications.

      Which, unlike YOUR example of Oracle, for which you provided exactly ONE case, you haven't shown a single case of this new claim. You have argued yourself out into the booneys. Or rather you were always out there, but you've run out of bullshit to baffle with.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    59. Re:Cultural differences? by m50d · · Score: 1
      Which, unlike YOUR example of Oracle, for which you provided exactly ONE case, you haven't shown a single case of this new claim.

      Well, every one of Oracle's contracts is an example.

      --
      I am trolling
    60. Re:Cultural differences? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Well, every one of Oracle's contracts is an example.

      And how many is that? Keep on reaching boy.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    61. Re:Cultural differences? by m50d · · Score: 1

      Certainly enough to contradict your "haven't shown a single instance" claim.

      --
      I am trolling
    62. Re:Cultural differences? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Certainly enough to contradict your "haven't shown a single instance" claim.

      Oh yeah? Name ONE.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    63. Re:Cultural differences? by m50d · · Score: 1

      Sankhya technologies (http://www.sankhya.com/). Thanks for playing

      --
      I am trolling
    64. Re:Cultural differences? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Sankhya technologies (http://www.sankhya.com/). Thanks for playinh

      Silly little slashdork, made you look.

      As if ONE user would prove anything except how much you've painted yourself into a silly little corner. Oh yeah, some dork on slashdot can show one user of Oracle on linux (not even redhat, just linux) and that proves redhat is all about the proprietary. haha silly little slashdork, jump through some more irrelevant hoops why dontchya?

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    65. Re:Cultural differences? by m50d · · Score: 1
      Silly little slashdork, made you look.

      Oh wow, you made me spend ten seconds typing something into google. What a triumph!

      As if ONE user would prove anything except how much you've painted yourself into a silly little corner.

      No, it shows how poor you are at arguing. You say name one, that's your choice of battleground, and I beat you at it.

      Oh yeah, some dork on slashdot can show one user of Oracle on linux (not even redhat, just linux) and that proves redhat is all about the proprietary.

      Well, either it shows that, or, more likely, you've just shown that you would have difficulty arguing for the proposition that apples fall to the floor when unsupported.

      haha silly little slashdork, jump through some more irrelevant hoops why dontchya?

      Yeah, that's good. Throw insults when you lose, that way no-one will notice you did, only be careful never to make any of them anything approaching intelligent, otherwise someone might actually look. I'm not sure if I'm dropping down enough to be at your level yet, but I'm rubber and you're glue.

      --
      I am trolling
    66. Re:Cultural differences? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      You say name one, that's your choice of battleground, and I beat you at it.

      What you don't get is that my choice of battleground was not to google something. It was to see if I could pull your strings enough to make you go google an inane little fact. I pulled, you danced.

      Yeah, that's good. Throw insults when you lose

      What you don't get is that I have been insulting you since my first post to you. Your view is so obsviously wrong that there was never a chance to ever convince you otherwise. So I decided to see just how easy it was to pull your strings.

      Get used to it, when you are an idiot people treat you that way.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    67. Re:Cultural differences? by m50d · · Score: 1
      What you don't get is that my choice of battleground was not to google something. It was to see if I could pull your strings enough to make you go google an inane little fact. I pulled, you danced.

      Oh yeah? Well my choice of battleground wasn't whether I could beat you, it was how many times I could get you to use the word "dork", and I trashed you there.

      Or, you really are as much of an idiot as you appeared, and now you're pathetically trying to justify yourself, because you can't face having lost.

      Besides, if all you wanted was to get me to google something, you wasted a lot of effort. You could have just asked.

      What you don't get is that I have been insulting you since my first post to you.

      No, I noticed. It says a lot more about you than it does about me.

      Your view is so obsviously wrong that there was never a chance to ever convince you otherwise.

      That doesn't follow. If it's that obviously wrong, how could I have come to it? Because I was convinced because I'm suggestible, or because I've seen the wrong set of evidence. In either case, you can quite easily counteract it.

      So I decided to see just how easy it was to pull your strings.

      No you didn't. If that was the point of what you've done, you'd have no need to claim so here - you could just sit back, smugly satisfied, and laugh at me, and I could sit here in triumph, and we'd both be happy. The only reason you're doing this is you've lost, you know it, and you're trying to justify yourself.

      Get used to it, when you are an idiot people treat you that way.

      And now we go back to the insults again. I must say you're showing a distinct lack of imagination here though. Not least that required to look at yourself the way you're doing to others.

      --
      I am trolling
    68. Re:Cultural differences? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      And now we go back to the insults again

      Doh! never stopped.

      If it's that obviously wrong, how could I have come to it?

      You make the false assumption that you are rational.

      I could get you to use the word "dork", and I trashed you there.

      Or, you really are as much of an idiot as you appeared, and now you're pathetically trying to justify yourself, because you can't face having lost.

      Pot, kettle, bang!

      By the way, making you write out all your tortured, self-exculpatory reasonings is another string I've enjoyed pulling. Keep on dancing.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    69. Re:Cultural differences? by m50d · · Score: 1
      You make the false assumption that you are rational.

      If I'm not, why is there any point replying to me?

      Pot, kettle, bang!

      Well, if you want to talk about pot and kettle, you're claiming triumph at having got me to waste a few seconds correcting something that was obviously wrong, while the time you've spent replying to me is...a failed attempt at correcting something that was obviously wrong?

      By the way, making you write out all your tortured, self-exculpatory reasonings is another string I've enjoyed pulling. Keep on dancing.

      Right back at you.

      --
      I am trolling
    70. Re:Cultural differences? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Well, if you want to talk about pot and kettle, you're claiming triumph at having got me to waste a few seconds correcting something that was obviously wrong,

      Nope.

      If I'm not, why is there any point replying to me?

      You == verbal LSD.

      Right back at you.

      What is right back at me?

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    71. Re:Cultural differences? by m50d · · Score: 1
      Nope.

      "It was to see if I could pull your strings enough to make you go google an inane little fact." Your words.

      You == verbal LSD.

      There's far easier ways to get that effect.

      What is right back at me?

      The line I quoted.

      --
      I am trolling
    72. Re:Cultural differences? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      "It was to see if I could pull your strings enough to make you go google an inane little fact." Your words.

      Not at all.

      There's far easier ways to get that effect.

      What effect?

      The line I quoted.

      I don't see anything quoted, except my question.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    73. Re:Cultural differences? by m50d · · Score: 1
      Not at all.

      You're seriously denying having written that?

      What effect?

      Verbal LSD

      I don't see anything quoted, except my question.

      Look back at the post where I wrote "right back at you".

      --
      I am trolling
    74. Re:Cultural differences? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      You're seriously denying having written that?

      No, I wrote it.

      Verbal LSD

      I don't think you know Lucy very well.

      Look back at the post where I wrote "right back at you".

      There is no such post.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    75. Re:Cultural differences? by m50d · · Score: 1
      No, I wrote it.

      Then whence the "Not at all" comment?

      There is no such post.

      Ah, I get it, you're trying to be incoherent so it's not as obvious that you lost.

      --
      I am trolling
    76. Re:Cultural differences? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Then whence the "Not at all" comment?

      Because when somebody calls you, you answer quite slowly,

      Ah, I get it, you're trying to be incoherent so it's not as obvious that you lost.

      Of course! Come on you raver, you seer of visions.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    77. Re:Cultural differences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish I could give both of you baseball bats. Brainless morons.

    78. Re:Cultural differences? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      I wish I could give both of you baseball bats. Brainless morons.

      What are you, a girl with kaleidoscope eyes?
      Lucy in the sky with diamonds

      You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
      Shine on you crazy diamond.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  31. Stable release date? by pinkocommie · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Anyone know of an estimated (stable) release date?

    1. Re:Stable release date? by pointwood · · Score: 1

      There is no real release date or roadmap yet. With that said, the estimates I've heard is ~1 year from now.

    2. Re:Stable release date? by Shawn+is+an+Asshole · · Score: 1

      It will be out the same day as Duke Nukem Forever.

      Right now it's still in the planning phase (the "screenshots" are just mockups), and probably won't hit beta until at least the fall. Anyway, I'm looking forward to it being released. I might even switch back from Enlightenment.

      BTW, if you have not tried Enlightment give it a try. It's not the easiest thing to use (takes getting used to), but it's so nice and so amazingly fast even on slow machines.

      --
      "It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
  32. Schiavo? by ImaLamer · · Score: 1

    It does seem that the photos disappeared as quick as they appeared.

    --
    Get your Unix fortune now!
  33. Yawn by tymbow · · Score: 1, Redundant

    There are so many KDE 4 screenshot archives about at the moment and none of the seem to share much similarity, so I'm not inclined to believe any of them are the real deal. Personally I think KDE still suffers from bloat (particularly options bloat) and could it please drop the K-this and K-that names - it's childish and unprofessional.

    1. Re:Yawn by Nahooda · · Score: 1
      the K-this and K-that names - it's childish and unprofessional

      But the K indicates that a particular app is written for KDE and that's a practical hint for KDE users as it means a certain level of integration with the desktop environment used.

      If I have to choose between two apps which have nearly the same functionality (theoretically speaking), as a KDE user, I'd chose the one written for KDE containing a K in it's name.

      -DBS

      --
      Sigs suck!
    2. Re:Yawn by Slashcrunch · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Correct, many of them are probably mockups. Consider them concepts for look and feel and features which don't yet exist.

      KDE is bloated with options, compared to what? I assume you are referring to Gnome which has virtually no options, and little possibility to make it work the way I want it to? A long time ago I was a Gnome user, but one day I started toying around with KDE... and I couldn't bear to go back into Gnome after a while. I could make this desktop work just the way I wanted

      KDE might not suit you, but for me it is perfect. I don't find it bloated at all. I only run linux at home. When I have to use a Windows desktop at work, I always wonder how does someone cope with such a Gnome-like desktop? It's so... unconfigurable.

      Each to their own, mate.

    3. Re:Yawn by segedunum · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Can you stop this childish and unprofessional bollocks people always come up with? No one says that about prefixing a 'G' to everything, and no one complains about 'i' being attached to everything Mac. It's called marketing.

    4. Re:Yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one says that about prefixing a 'G' to everything, and no one complains about 'i' being attached to everything Mac.

      Use of "G" prefix was never popular, and has become positively rare these days. iBullshit is mocked everywhere. Get over it, "K"-prefixes are pathetic... and most KDE apps do it.

    5. Re:Yawn by richlv · · Score: 1

      "Personally I think KDE still suffers from bloat (particularly options bloat)"

      personally i think configurability of kde is excellent. and especially the ability to do that through gui, because that way a lot more users will bother, novices will be pleased by it and i can tell over phone "oh, you want that bar look like you saw at my place ? just click there, there and there, woohoo !"

      for option exterminators there always is gnome (though there is little left to extermine, so i have heard, so they are probably coming for kde now)

      --
      Rich
    6. Re:Yawn by udoschuermann · · Score: 1
      KDE is bloated with options, compared to what? I assume you are referring to Gnome which has virtually no options, and little possibility to make it work the way I want it to? A long time ago I was a Gnome user, but one day I started toying around with KDE... and I couldn't bear to go back into Gnome after a while. I could make this desktop work just the way I wanted

      And that is exactly what I found recently, too. Gnome seemed to be standing still in terms of features and configurability; It took some wading through KDE's options, but the ability to make the thing behave the way I want is worth all of Gnome and then some, IMNSHO.

      No, KDE doesn't win over Gnome in every way, but KDE does address my needs overall better than Gnome. Options are good. More options are better. But that's just me and my needs. I cannot and won't dictate how others address their needs (hence: gimme options!) To each his/her own.
      --
      --Udo.
  34. i hope they get to sound by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    i hope they get rid of aRTS so i can have full duplex sound w/ non kde apps and kde won't continue to take /dev/dsp hostage.

    1. Re:i hope they get to sound by ardor · · Score: 1

      /dev/dsp is always taken hostage unless the sound driver supports multiple sound streams, either by internal software mixing or by mixing in hardware. This is the very reason why sound daemons like arts or esd exist.

      Of course, this changes once dmix is stable enough. And I hope that its latency and accuracy is not as bad as esd's.

      --
      This sig does not contain any SCO code.
    2. Re:i hope they get to sound by seezer · · Score: 1

      aRTS is going to be replaced due to project inactivity

    3. Re:i hope they get to sound by BenjyD · · Score: 1

      I think dmix is enabled by default in the latest stable version of ALSA, 1.0.10.

    4. Re:i hope they get to sound by m50d · · Score: 1

      Already happening, but in the meantime can't you just use artsdsp on those apps?

      --
      I am trolling
    5. Re:i hope they get to sound by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Buy. A better. Soundcard.

      Soundblaster Audigy, for example. Haven't seen arts, esd och jackd for a while now, and I'm very happy about it.

    6. Re:i hope they get to sound by Richard_J_N · · Score: 1

      Under Mandriva 2006, you get dmix by default. Set all outputs to alsa. Then use aoss (eg "aoss play file.mp3") around any older apps. Lastly, disable Arts totally, and set the KDE system notifications to "use external player". I play the file with sox | aplay.

    7. Re:i hope they get to sound by manno · · Score: 1

      How does Kbuntu handle sound?

    8. Re:i hope they get to sound by pembo13 · · Score: 1

      I hope they ignore you.

      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    9. Re:i hope they get to sound by mattyrobinson69 · · Score: 1

      its getting replaced in kde4, probably by gstreamer

  35. Don't develop for KDE. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll
    If you're developing commercial apps for KDE, you're wasting your time as it's significantly cheaper to be developing for Windows XP. As the toolkit that KDE uses is extremely expensive:
    Platform: Console Edition, Desktop Light Edition, Desktop Edition
    One Platform: $1780, $1990, $3300
    Two Platforms: $2670, $2990, $4950
    Three Platforms: $3560, $3980, $6600
    Oh, sure, if you don't mind being having your code held hostage by Trolltech, by being forced to go GPL or pay them - go ahead. But you're a moron if you do so.

    May I suggest wxWidgets or GTK (for use with Gnome) instead. You'll still get cross-platform compatability, but you'll be able to choose what license you use for your code (closed or open source).
  36. Huh? All those shots remind me of..... by ardor · · Score: 1

    .... gnome!

    Am I the only one seeing odd similarities between KDE4 and Gnome screenshots? Well, isn't all that important to me, as I use KDE not because of its optics, but because its tech is so much better than Gnome's. I mean, kioslaves vs. gnomevfs, konqueror vs. nautilus etc. (Also, I don't know if a gnome counterpart to KParts exists). The underlying systems are much better integrated and designed. The UI itself is a matter of taste.

    --
    This sig does not contain any SCO code.
    1. Re:Huh? All those shots remind me of..... by segedunum · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Am I the only one seeing odd similarities between KDE4 and Gnome screenshots?

      Yes, you are. These mock ups are nothing like Gnome because what they're doing is putting some serious thought into the interface, whilst at the same time keeping all the features that people want and need but thinking about where they go and how they're arranged. It's called usability done right. All Gnome does is take a hacksaw to all the features 'that will confuse ordinary users' simply as an excuse because they don't have the framework and resources to implement the features KDE has. Linus Torvalds made that very same point in a pretty no nonsense way not so long ago.

    2. Re:Huh? All those shots remind me of..... by ardor · · Score: 1

      Hey hey, slow down. I meant the layout, the theme. Its much more gnome-like. This has NOTHING to do with usability.

      Other than that, I agree with the gnome-dumbing-down-point.

      --
      This sig does not contain any SCO code.
    3. Re:Huh? All those shots remind me of..... by pembo13 · · Score: 1

      Unless I missed the latest screen shots of Gnome. This looks nothing like gnome, for better or worse.

      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
  37. There are NOT screenshots! by 10Ghz · · Score: 4, Informative

    I hate to rain on your parade guys, but these are NOT "screenshots" of KDE4, and I have no idea why the admin of those forums (who posted the pictures) claims that they are. These pictures are mockups. Not screenshots but mockups. Many people have ideas what KDE could look like, and many of them have created mockups to demosntrate their ideas. There are many KDE-related forums/websites that are full of such mockups.

    There are no interesting KDE4-screenshots to show because there's nothing to show really. The work on KDE4 is going on at the library-level at the moment. The actual GUI (if you could get it work that is) would propably be almost identical to KDE3.5.

    Move along, nothing to see here.

    --
    Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
  38. Kde 4 screenshots - don't belive it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    KDE 4 will probably be released in the end of 2006 or beguining of 2007. But it could take even a bit more time!

    So please people don't get confused. There's yet no single KDE 4 screenshot at all, because they're still working in the base libs which are getting ported to Qt 4 and developed. All those screenshots are just MOCKUPS from KDE users who want to contribute to the brainstorm...

    If you want to see KDE 4 screenshots, keep an eye on dot.kde.org and who knowns, maybe around summer you will see something interesting ;-). (But that's just my opinion/feeling)

  39. Ditch or make optional? by McFadden · · Score: 1
    > Oh ya, let's hope they ditch the two part windowsish looking start menu thing

    With respect I'd much rather see them make things like that optional. For two reasons. Firstly someone who is trying something other than Windows for the first time might like it, or find it more comfortable, and that's no bad thing if it helps people migrate (I totally agree with your 'mother can use it' comment). Secondly, as long as it doesn't turn into bloatware, why not have choice rather than the enforced views of what other people think we should be looking at. Calling for stuff to be ditched really just pushes that agenda.

    The point is, a lot of people are going to be very turned on by Vista/Aero Glass, simply because it looks nice. If moving to an OS like Linux means downgrading your aesthetics, it's just another thing that's going to stop it becoming more mainstream.

  40. KDE too windowsoid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

    Why use KDE when i can go and use the original: Windows.
    Sorry, but of all window managers, KDE is the one nurturing to Windorks the most - and it's followers even like it.

    1. Re:KDE too windowsoid by smash · · Score: 1
      I have yet to see another feature as cool as KDE's ioslaves in any other desktop.

      fish rocks.

      smash.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    2. Re:KDE too windowsoid by pembo13 · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Kde could look like WinXP and I would still like it once it had kio_slaves.

      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    3. Re:KDE too windowsoid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mmmm no. I think Gnome is far closer to Windows than KDE is. Both thinks users are too stupid to know how to configure their work environment and that developers know far better what users need than the users themselves.

      BTW, if I couldn't use KDE I'd go back to Windows. It's as limited and braindead as Gnome, but at least Windows it's fast and has good native applications :-)

  41. yeah, right! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Keep on dreaming, USA-twat.

    It's not treated as premium beer in most of europe, and certainly not in countries where they DO have taste. In fact, Belgium, the quality-beer country par exellence, rightfully despises it!

    1. Re:yeah, right! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      faggot.

  42. Some _real_ screesnhots of KDE4 by nxsty · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/8529/1079108511 1010841086108213du.png
    http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/1358/screen8qt. png

    Not that exiting yet.

    1. Re:Some _real_ screesnhots of KDE4 by brickballs · · Score: 1

      mirror of those screenshots for if (when) imageshack dies.

      http://brickballs.net/img/kde4-1.png
      http://brickballs.net/img/kde4-2.png

      I'd mirror the others but they were already hosed when I got to em.

      --
      "What does slashdotting mean?"
      "You've never heard of slashdot?"
      "I know it makes websites not work."
  43. Coral Cache link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    www.planetdiaz.com @ coral cache

  44. Nothing to see here... by ltmon · · Score: 2, Informative

    Well not if you're looking for actual screenshots.

    These mock ups and their kind have been appearing on kde-artists.org for months now and are the work of artists trying to concenptualise ideas the devs could be working on.

    AFAIK the developers haven't gotten up to doing anything remotely visual for KDE4 yet and are still working on the underpinning libraries.

    L.

  45. Windows = no choices by Slashcrunch · · Score: 2

    Um, no. You miss the point. What is horrible about Windows, aside from the GUI, is what is under the GUI... So basically the whole thing. When you use Windows you have no *choice* about what Window manager to use. When you use Linux (or whatever) you have *choice*. If KDE ever emulated Windows too much, I'd switch too something else. I seriously dislike the Windows desktop.

    Choice is something I hate to be without, and it is for exactly this reason that I left MS a long time ago. Its their way or the highway.

    1. Re:Windows = no choices by Mistshadow2k4 · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I have Windows 2000 and when I switch over to Linux running KDE I feel like I've been released from prison. So much cleaner, so much more adjustable and Konqueror as a file manager beats Explorer into a bloody pulp. And Explorer in Windows XP - why is everything so huge since there isn't that much there? Dude, my eyesight admittedly isn't what it was when I was teenager but I'm not that blind yet. With Konqueror little space is wasted, plus I can only have what I want there. I don't love KDE because it's like Windows, I love it because I can make it be like whatever I want. As Slascrunch said, if it became an Explorer-clone I'd switch to something else. I believe KDE has mistakenly gained a reputation as Explorer-like mostly because it's used with all the newbie-friendly distros, but I think KDE is a good choice in that regard simply because it's easier to use. If you use both Windows and Linux with KDE you quickly realize how very different they are.

      --
      I dream of a better world... one in which chickens can cross roads without their motives being questioned.
  46. GNOME mockups by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And here are some GNOME mockups for those who prefer it:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/gamehack/sets/1506658 /
    http://desplesdadotcom.nfshost.com/?p=75

  47. You don't know JACK! by Dark+Coder · · Score: 1

    JACK (Jack Audio Connection Kit) is the most lowest latency audio mixer out there. DMIX isn't there yet with latency issues (especially when you're burning a CD, your MP3 player ends up sounding choppy.)

    If we can get Firefox (last holdovers) to support Jack Daemon, then my audio platform is sweet and complete.

    Nothing like multiple channels being independently mixed using a patch panel.

    When I want my KDE artsd-fartsdy sound daemon on LOW, I don't want MPLAYER volume slider to suppress KDE sound or FSCK the other application sound level.

    Each application SHOULD have their own volume settings. Its the only way to deal with everyone's gripes (personal preferences).

    BOOOM! YOU GOT MAIL (Argh!)

  48. Looking good by FishandChips · · Score: 1

    These are good-looking shots, but as they are only mock-ups it's a moot point as to what the final dish will turn out to be like.

    Half the posts on this thread are redundant. KDE is entirely voluntary: no one has to run it. If it doesn't do what you want, use another desktop environment, or no desktop environment. On Linux at least, we are spoiled for choice in this respect.

    In addition, some of the comments about eye candy are misplaced. Good design is extremely important: good design helps me do what I want to do with elegance and simplicity but it is never intrusive. If good design is what the KDE4 team are after, which I think they are, then kudos to them. Criticizing something because it has "pretty colours" is just showing off. Plenty of folks want to run a modern, full-up Linux desktop and leave the 1970s where they belong - in the past.

    --
    Las qué passoun
    tournoun pas maï
  49. Dude... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...you are not alone!

  50. Free Beer! by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 1

    that free (beer) beats free (speech).

    I have to disagree with you. It has been my experience that free beer when consumed in prodigious quantities tends to encourage free speech.

    --
    Only to idiots, are orders laws.
    -- Henning von Tresckow
  51. What the Gnome guys are up to.... by starX · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    I don't know what the Gnome guys are up to

    I suspect they don't either.

    1. Re:What the Gnome guys are up to.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, they might be up to more than you'd imagine ;)

      Though strictly not a 'gnome' thing, the Luminoscity/Compviz development-trials for XGL are _quite_ entertaining (talk about eye-candy), try http://www.freedesktop.org/~davidr/xgl-demo1.xvid. avi

      Have fun!

  52. Screenshots have appeared... by bredk · · Score: 0

    ...And disappeared again.

    --
    http://slashdot.su/
  53. X Server question by Anonymous+Writer · · Score: 1

    I have Mac Mini with OS X, and I have been using it for about a year now. I also have a tower-PC running KDE and Linux.

    Just curious, but have you been trying out OS X's implementation of X11 to run applications remotely? I mean with the application running on the Linux box, using your Mini's GUI as a front-end. From what I've read on the net, I was under the impression that X11 on OS X can't handle it, but I'm really not too sure about that. I may have completely misinterpreted what I read. I'm very inexperienced with X servers and I've found all the information confusing.

    I have a PowerBook and a Linux box, and I want to use the Linux box as a network appliance, running applications on it through my PowerBook's GUI. However I can't seem to find any clear instructions on the net on how to do so. I have found instructions on how to run KDE on OS X in a fixed-size window. I suppose that would allow KDE on OS X to work as an X server, with remote applications running within the Xnest window. But I would prefer to be able to take advantage of the entire OS X desktop for remote applications rather than have them isolated within a window.

    1. Re:X Server question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eh? X11.app is XFree86 ported to Mac OS X. It can run applications transparent to the network.

      Just fire up X11.app, open Xterm within X11.app, and do:

      ssh -CY user@host

      and run regular X apps as you would under a X session. xclock is a good test.

      Granted multiple X apps won't show up in the dock à la Mac OS X apps, but just switch the active app to X11.app. I'm not sure personally if this is a 'bug' or a 'feature.'

    2. Re:X Server question by 10Ghz · · Score: 1
      Just curious, but have you been trying out OS X's implementation of X11 to run applications remotely? I mean with the application running on the Linux box, using your Mini's GUI as a front-end. From what I've read on the net, I was under the impression that X11 on OS X can't handle it, but I'm really not too sure about that.


      I have tried it and it works just fine.
      --
      Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
  54. Screen Shots are nice by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    But what is really important is what is under the hood.. Look and feel is only part of the importance of KDE. It can look as pretty as a rose, but if its garbage underneath it wont matter much. ( not that it is garbage underneath, just making a point )

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  55. clash of civilizations? by yoprst · · Score: 1

    Let's draw some KDE cartoons!

  56. The real insult... by orzetto · · Score: 1
    Erotic movies featuring tons of shitting are also wildly popular in Germany. As are BMWs and Budweiser.

    ...is that you claim people drink Budweiser in the land of the Reinheitsgebot.

    --
    Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
    1. Re:The real insult... by lahvak · · Score: 1

      Of course they do! They drink the real Budweiser, which, after all, is an old German beer.

      About your sig: I have actually seen this on a student's exam:

      \frac{\infty}{2} = \rotatebox{90}{\mbox{4}}

      --
      AccountKiller
    2. Re:The real insult... by pthisis · · Score: 1

      They drink the real Budweiser, which, after all, is an old German beer

      The real Budweiser is an old Czech beer. It's sold in the US as Czechvar.

      --
      rage, rage against the dying of the light
  57. KDE and Gnome Will Always Be Crummy by 24FightingChickens · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    No matter what anyone who is a big fan of open source development says, KDE and Gnome will continue to look half-baked for eternity. The big reason for that is that no decent artist worth his paycheck is ever going to bother to work in a Unix environment for free. The very idea is insipid. Gnome will continue to be this dark world where geeks have Matrix themed desktops, and KDE will continue to look like it was made from cheap plastic. Microsoft can afford to make the artists sell their souls, and the Apple world just snaps their fingers to get the best art in the world. The stuff that makes up Linux desktop GUIs is always going to be made by the second-hand artist who is not good enough to work for MS or Apple. Thus, the desktops are doomed to mediocrity.

  58. KDE and productivity. by CyricZ · · Score: -1, Troll

    I did some work with a firm a while back regarding the productivity of GNOME and KDE. They had a mix of Linux and OpenBSD systems, using various versions of GNOME and some using KDE.

    A quick survey found that those who used the systems running KDE found themselves to be more productive. Overall, they reported that they were happier with KDE, and found it easier to get work done. Keep in mind that these were fairly regular people, not exactly techies. They were secretaries, accountants, and some such.

    The main gripe most of the people had with GNOME was that it was slow. I forget the exact percentage, but it was something in the ballpark of 85% of the workers saying they found GNOME slow, while only about 45% described KDE as such.

    While it may have been a problem with how GNOME was compiled that lead to it being considered so slow, I doubt that was the case. Some of the systems used the bundled, pre-built versions of GNOME. Others I had built, with -O3 and system-specific -march flags where appropriate. It appears from our survey that many users just find GNOME to be slow.

    The secretaries were split between using LaTeX, KWord, and OpenOffice. Many of those running KDE and OpenOffice reported it to feel fast, while those running GNOME and OpenOffice described it as feeling slower. They only used one version of OpenOffice there (one of the 1.x releases) for compatibility reasons, so it was speculated that the overall slowness of GNOME may have lead GNOME users to find OpenOffice slow, as well.

    That's only the tip of the iceberg. In general, those users who were using GNOME felt that their computers were more of a hassle than a benefit. The KDE users, on the other hand, more often than not said outright that they liked their systems, and found them helpful.

    We recently transitioned the GNOME users to KDE 3.5, and the reports I'm getting back are that many of the users are quite happy to have switched from GNOME. They report their system is faster, even when it's the same OS and same physical computer, and they've been able to get more work done in a shorter amount of time.

    --
    Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    1. Re:KDE and productivity. by 16777216 · · Score: 1

      I rember this EXACT SAME post WORD for WORD on another KDE v. GNOME article.

      Canned posts suck, but only half as much as the people that post them.

      --
      I am. Lower your shields and power down your weapons, they are useless. Your biological and technological distinctivenes
  59. widgetized terminals by cabazorro · · Score: 3, Interesting

    okay kde developers log this:
    A great deal of kde users are heavy shell users (xterm,konsole,whatever)
    I wish some kind of terminal apps could be held as a widget on the desktop showing
    the actual text being displayed in the terminal (shrunk but visible and legible) and upon clicking or roll-over restores itself.

    And here's the kick-ass feature.
    a F-key expose that gives you all your terminals with the actual text displayed in real time and a history scroll bar that scrolls the history a typed commands not the displayed text. You roll over the terminals on expose and the take over the whole screen for 1 second and if you keep moving the mouse, returns to expose, if you stop moving the mouse the terminal remains in full-screen mode, if you right-click the terminal stays in full-screen mode. You press F-key and return to expose.

    wait wait wait, when you select expose, the terminals are displayed and take over the whole screen from left to right top bottom in chronological last-selected time (like alt-tab) and you press anoter F-key and all terminals show the last 10 commands executed with the return text ALL IN SLOW MOTION!!

    Now you picture this: You arrive at 9 AM with your coffee and your bagel all grogy, sit in front of your screen, log-in, press terminal expose, press history and voila! you get to see a little movie of all the crap you were doing the night before..kewl eh?

    You got all that!! Now go tiger! go!

    --
    - these are not the droids you are looking for -
    1. Re:widgetized terminals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow! Reading that made me think I was feeling groggy and hadn't woken up yet. Then I realised it wasn't me, it was the lack of punctuation and correct spelling which made it difficult to read.

      Or in other word wow reading that made me thin I was feeling groggy handnt woken up yet then realised it wasn't me it, was the lack off punctuation and correct spelling made it difficult to read

    2. Re:widgetized terminals by jeepeagle · · Score: 1

      I hope you've tried yakuake on KDE 3.5.

  60. What the Gnome guys are up to: by daemonc · · Score: 1

    XGL and Compiz

    (Yes, I know XGL is not Gnome specific, but a lot of the "Gnome guys" have been working on it, and the demos show the Compiz window manager working with Gnome.)

    --
    All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.
    1. Re:What the Gnome guys are up to: by SirTalon42 · · Score: 1

      XGL & the Compiz window/composite manager has nothing GNOME specific. Gnome-Window-Decorator is gnome specific, though there is also KDE-Window-Decorator.

      Also Novell is the one thats been working on it (because they hired several of the developers and kept all the modifications private up until very recently).

    2. Re:What the Gnome guys are up to: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Besides except for the wobbling windows effect that Novell showed off, everything is possible in KDE 3.4 itself. So, there's nothing new in what GNOME guys did except added hype because of all the money flowing from Novell ...

  61. ENLIGHTENMENT E17 WILL WIPE THE FLOOR! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is good news for Linux/BSD people out there, but wait until Enlightenment E17 is released! E17 WILL WIPE THE FLOOR WITH OS X! Apple fanboy faggots will never recover.

    1. Re:ENLIGHTENMENT E17 WILL WIPE THE FLOOR! by kortex · · Score: 1

      Agreed! Dev time has been so um...'gradual' that I think alot of people lost interest in it. I have been running 16.999 for a few weeks while the final tweaks are being worked out and I love it. Gnome and KDE never afforded me the level of sophistication + performance that Enlightenment does. Yes it takes longer to learn, configure and understand (for me) but if that is someones problem they should use Windows or Mac.

      From what Ive seen so far KDE4 brings nothing new to the table that would make me leave pre-E17 and certainly not E17 in its final glory.

      --
      -- kortex "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts"
    2. Re:ENLIGHTENMENT E17 WILL WIPE THE FLOOR! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you'll be removing all the applications that rely on Qt and GTK then?

    3. Re:ENLIGHTENMENT E17 WILL WIPE THE FLOOR! by theJML · · Score: 1

      I completely agree. Enlightenment 17 is not only breathtaking, but it's compact, it's quick, it's easy to code, it's VERY configurable, it's not a memory hog or a processor hog (my P2 350 laptop with 256MB runs enlightenment 17 perfectly, something I can't even come close to saying with KDE 3.x or Gnome). And if you happen to have the KDE libs installed and want to run a KDE app, it'll fire it right up.

      I can't wait for the final product (though that hasn't been stopping me from running it for the last year+), so that the major distros can pick up this spectacular next generation Window Manager.

      --
      -=JML=-
  62. Yeah, I do! by leonbrooks · · Score: 2, Funny

    How dare you imply that I'm not a lord of the universe? Elitist scum!

    (deem enclsing sarcasm tags implied)

    --
    Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
  63. The thumbnails load fine... by leonbrooks · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...but the main images are served from a MySQL database, which, big surprise, has been smashed flat by the unexpected and overwhelming load. I'm impressed that it even manages to produce a good error message. (-:

    --
    Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
    1. Re:The thumbnails load fine... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes, the default Firefox "The operation timed out when attempting to contact www.planetdiaz.com" popup is very nice of them, now how do i get Firefox to block its own popups?

    2. Re:The thumbnails load fine... by yarbo · · Score: 1

      about:config
      browser.xul.error_pages.enabled true

    3. Re:The thumbnails load fine... by kbrosnan · · Score: 1

      Use Firefox 1.5 if possible, Mozilla.com as that has error pages instead of error messages enabled by default. If that is not possible then type about:config in the address bar and in the filter paste browser.xul.error_pages.enabled double click on it to turn it to true.

      --
      These people look deep within my soul and assign me a number based upon the order I joined. -Homer Simpson
  64. "I don't know what the Gnome guys are up to..." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd imagine they're tearing out yet more useful functionality and burying yet more useful options in their pathologically misguided quest for "usability".

  65. coralcache link - server melted by modme2 · · Score: 1

    http://www.planetdiaz.com.nyud.net:8090/forums/ind ex.php?showtopic=141

  66. KDE is nice but unusable. by jetxee · · Score: 1

    While out-of-the-box KDE installs do not fit my 1024x768 laptop screen, I stay with GNOME (this is especially the case, if I use Russian language interface, where words are longer, but the same happens even with English).

    While KDE's keyboard-layout switching applet just does not work for a number of releases (it does not recognize shortcuts for switching layouts), I stay with GNOME or modify my xorg.conf.

    I try fresh KDE in average once a year. KDE remains unusable. This is what they should be working on.

    1. Re:KDE is nice but unusable. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's odd, because I've been using it for about five years.

    2. Re:KDE is nice but unusable. by pembo13 · · Score: 1

      Maybe the distro you are using isn't properly packaging KDE.

      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    3. Re:KDE is nice but unusable. by jetxee · · Score: 1

      I use Debian.

      I had the same experience before on Fedore Core 1 & 2, and on early versions of ASPLinux (RedHat's offshoot). The situation does not change for years.

      I seriously suspect there is no one in the KDE team with low resolution screen.

    4. Re:KDE is nice but unusable. by pembo13 · · Score: 1

      I am going to have to pass that as a wierd occurence, since 1024 x 768 is the only res I use (use properly at least). And I have been using KDE full time, as my desktop machine since FC2 (I think). I would appreciate if you could possible record some more metrics next time you are not busy, maybe file a bug report, get this sorted out, on the Fedora side at least.

      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    5. Re:KDE is nice but unusable. by jetxee · · Score: 1

      OK. I shall file bug reports next time.

  67. FIle chooser by diegocgteleline.es · · Score: 1

    I think nautilus is pretty good, but for some reason I'm not very fond of using it. It seems to get in my way, and I don't like that feeling, but I do believe you when you say that I can change settings to fix it for my tastes.

    In my case it's not the file manager, but the file chooser. Gnome developers decided to develop the GTK file chooser. That's nice, but gnome has many other needs that gtk doesn't. Using the file chooser is PAINFUL. You just have the name, and the "modified" field and a list of favourite locations. You can't even order things by SIZE.

    You don't have different "views" at all in fact. You can't get a view where all the images are show a small thumbnail instead of a meaningless icon. You have to select EVERY file to get a preview at one side - try that in /usr/share/pixmaps or a directory with your digital camera photos, it's really "fun" and "usable". And the image formats that will be previewed are the ones supported by the pixbuf GTK plugins: only the formats in in /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.x.0/loaders/*. Forget about things that have sense, for example video thumbnails, something that has a LOT of sense if you're going to open a video file in a video editing program.

    The funny thing is that nautilus can do all what your need and will give you even thumbnails of videos and even of some .swfs with totem-gstreamer + libswf but the decided to go with this completely useless file selector. Compare it with the KDE file selector, where I even can watch the video. Great things like kparts make the desktop feel different. That image is from a page I wrote about "why KDE rocks"

    1. Re:FIle chooser by ender- · · Score: 1

      In my case it's not the file manager, but the file chooser. Gnome developers decided to develop the GTK file chooser. That's nice, but gnome has many other needs that gtk doesn't. Using the file chooser is PAINFUL. You just have the name, and the "modified" field and a list of favourite locations. You can't even order things by SIZE.

      Agree'd, the gtk file chooser is a royal pain in the ass. I don't particularly like GNOME, but I am an avid user of XFCE4. Most of the software I prefer just happens to be GTK software, such as Gimp, Grip, GAIM, xsane, Firefox, etc. The only QT software I really use now is Amarok [Rhythmbox is ok to just play the music but seriously lacking in features]. I used to use K3b, but it hasn't been working for me lately, so I've switched to Gnomebaker and the Nautilus CD Burner. I also sometimes will use a KDE program to print things. The KDE print manager lets me change the printer resolution and toner saving options when I print. The GTK/XFCE programs don't seem to let me change those things on the fly as I print each document.

      I use XFCE4 with a Nautilus desktop, and gnome-volume-manager for automounting CD/USB/Firewire drives and dropping the icon on the desktop. It works quite well actually, although admittedly Nautilus kills some of the memory saving features of XFCE4, but it is still better than an all GNOME or all KDE desktop and I really like the Nautilus filemanager in browser mode. And while the QT/KDE file chooser is better [And I'm sorry I hate MS but the file-chooser in Windows is quite nice], I can't stand using konqueror as a file-manager. I can't really put it into words, but something about it just gets on my nerves.

      Now if they can fix the GTK file-chooser, get XFCE to give me more printer config options, and make a GTK based music player that's as featureful as Amarok, I'll be set! Considering what a pain all the OSS desktops were just a few years ago, I think they're doing pretty well now. Just a few more buttons to sew up and we're good.

      --
      Nothing to see here
    2. Re:FIle chooser by juhaz · · Score: 1

      In my case it's not the file manager, but the file chooser. Gnome developers decided to develop the GTK file chooser. That's nice, but gnome has many other needs that gtk doesn't. Using the file chooser is PAINFUL. You just have the name, and the "modified" field and a list of favourite locations. You can't even order things by SIZE.

      You don't have different "views" at all in fact. You can't get a view where all the images are show a small thumbnail instead of a meaningless icon.

      I agree about the lack of columns and icon view. However, there are some bugs open about them, and none of them has been WONTFIXed or anything like that, so the design isn't fixed in stone and good implementations would no doubt be welcome, and will probably end up there sooner or later.

      And the image formats that will be previewed are the ones supported by the pixbuf GTK plugins: only the formats in in /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.x.0/loaders/*. Forget about things that have sense, for example video thumbnails, something that has a LOT of sense if you're going to open a video file in a video editing program.

      This, on the other hand is pure unadulterated bullshit. You're obviously not very familiar with the preview API of GtkFileChooser, there is nothing that limits it to the pixbuf loaders. If a video editing program or player wants video thumbnails there, it can easily be done.

      Compare it with the KDE file selector, where I even can watch the video.

      I took ten minutes to write a small proof of concept: http://www.cc.puv.fi/~e0000274/fsvideo.png, and yes, although I didn't bother to add the controls to throw-away piece of code, it's live video, not snapshot.

    3. Re:FIle chooser by diegocgteleline.es · · Score: 1

      I agree about the lack of columns and icon view. However, there are some bugs open about them, and none of them has been WONTFIXed or anything like that, so the design isn't fixed in stone and good implementations would no doubt be welcome, and will probably end up there sooner or late

      The problem is not if it will be fixed or not - the problem is how QA controls have allowed to release this as it's today.

      You're obviously not very familiar with the preview API of GtkFileChooser, there is nothing that limits it to the pixbuf loaders. If a video editing program or player wants video thumbnails there, it can easily be done.

      Happy to know that it's fixable without rewriting the whole thing.

  68. This is exactly why I use KDE now by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

    I've been a huge GNOME fan in the past, I hated KDE every time I used it for quite some time. I also was never too happy with some of the developers' blatant disregard for licensing problems, which didn't go away until the controversy essentially forced TrollTech to release a GPL-licensed version of Qt so that the only major application using their toolkit could be used legally.

    Unfortunately, thanks to the likes of idiots like Havoc Pennington who claim to be gods of user interface design but don't actually have ANY real credentials in terms of human interface design, and obtain their rationales from other sources who have no actual credentials in the area of human interface design, GNOME has become completely unusuable for me. I simply can't live without basic productivity features such as edge flipping. After years of people bitching about the GNOME file selection dialog, what did the GNOME devs do? They made it WORSE. How can anyone justify having to hit control-L to type in a file path in the name of usability? Yet that is what they did - in order to actually use the new GNOME file dialog, you need to hit a key combination that is basically undocumented.

    So I've switched to KDE. It's far less polished than GNOME and has quite a few more bugs, but it isn't as buggy as the workarounds needed to get decent usability out of GNOME such as brightside (which crashed on a regular basis but was the only way to get edge flipping to work reasonably well in GNOME. The day GNOME changes broke brightside is the day I switched to KDE.)

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
  69. Surprise surprise! by gidds · · Score: 1
    You know, it's strange, but that looks oddly familiar. I can't place it, but there's a certain...

    Hang on a minute! It looks like Windows! That can't be right -- all those free software folk hate Windows, don't they? Surely they wouldn't just be copying the Windows L&F?

    --

    Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.

    1. Re:Surprise surprise! by shish · · Score: 1

      Dislike of a product's bugs != emotional hatred of everything to come from the product's company

      --
      I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
  70. I wish I could get KDE without the K-apps by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    I want the apps that *I* want, and nothing else. I don't want KDE deciding for me. I don't want all that useless cruft. I don't want multiple apps that do the exact same thing. I don't like a "K" in front of everything. I don't want to have remove all the appls I don't want.

    Until then, I'll continue using IceWM.

    1. Re:I wish I could get KDE without the K-apps by 10Ghz · · Score: 1

      You can do just that. At least on Gentoo KDE is split up to individual packaes, so you could (for example) install only Kicker, Kdesktop and Kwin (those propably rely on some other stuff, but you get the idea). If your distro does not offer you that possibility, complain to your distro.

      --
      Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
  71. Are you smoking crack? by elementik · · Score: 1

    www.litestep.org
    www.objectdock.com
    etc etc

    Search google for "Shell replacement"

    Just because you're ignorant of its existance, doesn't mean something isn't there.

    --
    --- Stop the world! I want to get off!
    1. Re:Are you smoking crack? by Slashcrunch · · Score: 1

      Yeah, real useful. Look, thats real nice and all and this might be OK at home, try installing it on a machine in a production/corporate environment. If I've got to gut Windows to make it useful (the GUI is not just an optional add on), why would I want to use it in the first place? Making things do stuff they aren't supposed to is fun, although often unstable. I'm sure these alternatives you mention are rock solid as well... and then they run on a windows machine. Jeez!

      I'm not ignorant of these alternatives, but get real. An easy, safe replacement for the windows GUI? Try convincing the sysadmin where I work to let me install this on a windows machine, Hahahaha!! If windows was more modular maybe it would be considered, but the fact is it isn't. Any pretence at modularity is a filthy hack. If I want to change Window Managers under *nix I don't have to threaten the stability of my machine, I just switch.

      Don't even get me started on trying to write useful scripts on Windows either. I know it has scripting etc, but it is just so retarded!!

      When I need to get real work done I pick a *nix machine everytime. I swear by them and they've never let me down yet. If they had I would have been fired long ago for pushing the *nixes into my employers operation.

  72. They have some screenies here too: by heffeque · · Score: 1

    They have some screenies here too:
    http://vladoboss.softver.org.mk/mg2/index.php?list =5

  73. It works by Shawn+is+an+Asshole · · Score: 1

    It works, but you have to use SSH forwarding and launch it from xterm. Ie:

    ssh -X <host> quanta

    I do that on my laptop (PowerBook w/ Tiger) fairly regularly.

    --
    "It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
    1. Re:It works by Anonymous+Writer · · Score: 1

      Thanks for that. I just didn't know how to launch it properly. I've tried a couple of applications and they work great, with the exception of GIMP, however.

    2. Re:It works by Anonymous+Writer · · Score: 1

      I also tried out something interesting, but it has glitches. With X11->Preferences->Output->Enable the Enter Full Screen menu set, you can actually "ssh -X startkde" and get a KDE desktop. But it doesn't seem complete in some parts, and bits that should be in the taskbar appear in really small windows in the upper left of the screen. The desktop background picture doesn't cover the entire desktop even if you try and fiddle with the desktop settings, and you can see a little of the X11 full-screen background right above the taskbar. Is there a way of fixing this so it works seamlessly?

  74. Gnome V KDE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My wife uses Gnome because it's simple and straight forward. I like KDE because I ... must... tinker... constantly! I would look forward to a new release of either. They're both fantastic for completely different reasons. Viva La Linux Desktop!

  75. Budweiser by Shawn+is+an+Asshole · · Score: 1

    Personally I'd rather be sober than drink that shit.

    --
    "It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
  76. Gnome isn't a desktop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a collection of disjointed hacks. KDE has always been a better desktop. The only reason gnome still exists is because of Qt licensing issues on KDE way back in the day that allowed gnome to get a head start in community support.

    You simply cannot compare the refined look, feel, and behavior of KDE to gnome, which is slightly better than CDE.

    I applaud all those who toiled over gnome, but their individual contributions far outweigh the sum total of their efforts.

  77. Copycats 5 years late by powlette · · Score: 0, Troll

    This is great, you'll have almost duplicated what Microsoft had 5 years ago, just in time for Vista to come out. Leave your parent's basements and go buy XP for $80

    1. Re:Copycats 5 years late by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is great, you'll have almost duplicated what Microsoft had 5 years ago, just in time for Vista to come out. Leave your parent's basements and go buy XP for $80

      $80! That's rediculous. For less than a buck I can buy a can of blue spray paint, which, when applied to any old monitor, will duplicate the look, feel, and functionality of XP.

  78. What the GNOME guys are up to by Tyr_7BE · · Score: 2, Informative

    To provide some alternate perspective:

    Screens:

    Screen1
    Screen2
    Screen3

    Videos:

    Vids taken with a video camera
    New window manager video (long)

    Conceivably some of these goodies could be merged into KDE. Given the blatant sexiness of this handful of technologies, I'd expect it will be happening reasonably soon.

    And I believe that everywhere you see "Search", it is a beagle indexed search. WinFS eat your heart out.

    1. Re:What the GNOME guys are up to by SirTalon42 · · Score: 1

      Those videos have NOTHING to with Gnome, those videos are of XGL and the Compiz window/composite manager (specially designed for XGL).

  79. OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    BEOS Forever!

  80. Re:GNOME is sponsored by Microsoft by kgutter · · Score: 1

    We all know that MS does not like linux. So, wat they did was start a GNOME project , funded by them. This way making sure , that any user who uses GNOME ,switches back to windows ,since he cant do a damn thing in it.

  81. google images - (some app) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hell, you can go to google images and get results for kde5, yeah /five/.

  82. A Windows replacement? by typical · · Score: 1

    You've probably heard the quote, "BSD is for people that love Unix; Linux is for people that hate Windows."

    Uh...I'm going to say "no" on that one.

    BSD is maybe less usable as a desktop, but Linux is awesome because it's a really, really good Unix replacement. The GNU POSIX utilities beat the hell out of the traditional Unix utilities, and Linux is fast. More people are hacking software for and testing for Linux than BSD.

    Linux is nothing amazing as a drop-in Windows replacement. If you just want an OS that lets you double-click on an icon and start up your office applications, if you have no interest in scripting or software development or running servers, then you can use Linux, but it's hardly going to revolutionize your world. Linux is maybe more stable and faster than Windows, but that doesn't mean that the same is true of all the productivity-type apps, and that doesn't affect a productivity application user all that much. You save the price of Windows and commercial software, but have to learn different applications and have fewer commercial-style games. Octave instead of MATLAB, Open Office instead of MS Office, Gimp instead of Photoshop.

    I'd never substitute a Windows box for my Linux desktop, but that's because I use Linux like a Unix, not like Windows. Aside from a web browser, almost everything I do is in an xterm. If you've got the time and technical knowledge to learn Unix, I think that it's a damned incredible environment to work in, and a very worthwhile investment for anyone involved in the tech world. However, all that doesn't matter much if you just want a tool that lets you delete files and launch your office application.

    Actually, the same goes for Mac OS X. If all you want is an application-launching shell with icons, then it doesn't really matter all that much whether you're using Mac OS X or Windows. Mac OS X has more alpha fading in the shell, and Windows has more commercial software. [shrug] Big deal.

    Besides, most of the good Free software that you'd use under Linux if you wanted to just use Linux like a Windows is also available (in my experience, usually in a somewhat slower and less stable form, but still available) under Windows. Firefox, GIMP, Open Office, etc.

    --
    Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
  83. SuSE vs Red Hat by typical · · Score: 1

    SuSE has always been KDE-centric, and Red Hat always GNOME-centric.

    Red Hat is the most popular distro in the US, and SuSE the most popular in Germany.

    I would expect that there are more German KDE users and more US GNOME users.

    Of the graphical apps I use, all are gtk+, but my desktop doesn't have the GNOME bar, icons on the desktop, etc.

    I *do* dislike SuSE, which is rather less ideologically Free than the other major distros. To be fair, Red Hat is rather less Free than Debian...

    --
    Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
  84. good stuff by slackaddict · · Score: 1

    KDE is doing some great things and I'm glad to see the amount of development going into making the Linux desktop as polished and feature rich as possible. I would encourage everyone who's used KDE to donate a small amount of money to fund this project. They deserve it.

    --
    ConsultingFair.com
  85. I'd settle for stability by bigtrike · · Score: 1

    How about an artsd that doesn't freeze every 45 minutes? The last stable version I found was in 3.2. I'm not sure what "more interesting features" could be added since KDE already seems to have everything, but doing this will only make it less stable and slower.

  86. Sorry, no sale ! by Qwavel · · Score: 1

    As a C++ developer I wanted to love Qt/KDE, but with version 4 they have lost me.

    I believe in writing code that is portable and can be shared, so I believe in standards. TT is now attempting to undermine these things. QT4 introduces their own version of the STL. So, while other libraries, such as wxWidgets go out of their way to move towards the standard, TT moves away from it.

    Yes, I'm sure they have excuses. I'm sure that, by designing their own standard containers they managed to come up with something that works even better for them. But standards have a purpose and everyone has to sacrafice a little to make standards work. TT and MS are two companies that prefer to lock-in developers and their code, and I don't want any part of it.

    1. Re:Sorry, no sale ! by JohnFluxx · · Score: 1

      Uh, qt3 didn't use STL either. And if you write code in QT4 then it is portable. What's the problem?

    2. Re:Sorry, no sale ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The code is portable between platforms, ok. But its QT4-tied without a sufficiently good reason. I dont know if their STL-like library is better than standard one, but as he has said, standards are a good practice for a lot of reasons. It sounds to me as a move to prevent porting qt apps to free (as in beer) libraries.

    3. Re:Sorry, no sale ! by JohnFluxx · · Score: 1

      Oh come on. Look at the huge amount of code provided in qt4. Porting from QT to another widget set (and why would you?) would require an effort far higher than the simple switching from QString to String and other containers.
      I have had to port between widget sets (from MS MFC to QT) and the containers was not the difficult bit.

      It's the same with any widget set.

    4. Re:Sorry, no sale ! by Qwavel · · Score: 1

      That's if you are trying to port a comlete application.

      A good amount of code snippets and libraries can be shared between very diverse C++ applications if the libraries adhere to the language. For example, everything at boost and a lot of the code on CodeProject is written to only rely on the standard library so I can use all of this code with MFC, wxWidgets, GTKmm, but not Qt.

      TT has developed its own proprietary language and this is a disservice to developers who don't want to be locked in.

    5. Re:Sorry, no sale ! by JohnFluxx · · Score: 1

      Qt can read and write to most (all?) STL containers. QString can read/write/use std::string, QValueList can use STL containers, and so on. I prefer the way QT does it, and dislike STL.

      I guess it's just not a priority for me. If it's a priority for you, then fair enough, but it has just simply never been an actual problem for me, and I use 3rd party libraries all the time.

      It's fair enough to dislike that you don't get to use STL in QT, but to say it's locking in the developers seems a big disservice to Qt.

  87. My KDE experience by phorm · · Score: 1

    Well, for a long time I was using sub-1Ghz Celeron laptops for work etc with little to no video capabilities. Back in those days, I used IceWM with iDesk to keep my system up and spiffy.

    When I moved to my new job, and got a better laptop, a lot of people here were running KDE, so I switched over. Here are some of my opinions/impressions:

    a) The "K" spellings of everything are rather annoying
    b) KioSlaves are the shiznat: Fish, FTP, and other integration simply kicks ass
    c) File browser is very nice, the ability to hover-preview documents has actually done rather well by me
    d) Sound system=annoying at times. System notifications are sometimes useful, but I wish there were a way to "suspend" it while running apps that need my soundcard resources (without timeout) without using eSound. Actually this is partly a linux sound issue though... OSS/ALSA apps tend not to play nice with multiple sources
    e) Some eye-candy features are rather nice for me. I enjoy a nice desktop wallpaper, and rather appreciate the ability to have it autochange at various intervals. This should please those 'webshots' windows users as well. One request: Let me point it at a directory so I can just delete/drop files from it as I wish without adding them to the wallpaper rotation


    As I've been using KDE, I've slowly traversed versions. Generally I've been impressed, though as a user of Debian/Unstable I've sometimes met clashes with the 'unstable' part of things:

    a) My touchpad simply died in KDE for a certain period of time. Could not be reconfigured, and worked until KDE loaded
    b) The hover-over descriptions are rather nice for some windows, such as my IM client
    c) Pager window previews are useful
    d) Brushed stell look is very appealing (from KDE in debian/stable to unstable is a big leap)
    e) HalD+Storage Media config=Joy or pain, depending on how well configured

    f) Would SOMEBODY tell me a good system for input of Asian characters (Chinese, etc) in the GUI, similar to the many windows apps that exist???!

    1. Re:My KDE experience by JohnFluxx · · Score: 1

      For your last point, it seems that skim will be in the next kubuntu release. Personally I'm waiting for that and hoping that will solve all my problems regarding inputting asian chars.

    2. Re:My KDE experience by otis+wildflower · · Score: 1

      a) The "K" spellings of everything are rather annoying

      Agreed! However, it's gotten a lot better since K-menu items have had better default descriptor fields lately, so you get stuff like "Kopete (IM client)" so you have an idea of what things do.

      b) KioSlaves are the shiznat: Fish, FTP, and other integration simply kicks ass

      I don't think there's another GUI out there that comes close to how well KDE does this kind of thing. ipod:/ man:/ settings:/ are a few other favorites, though a simple iPod app (all it does is play stuff that's _on_ the ipod) would be nice. Would even be cool as a small window that just mimicked the iPod interface, but you use your mouse scrollwheel or arrows as the clickwheel.

      Oh, and don't forget all the konqueror shortcuts like gg: wp: etc.. (and a few quickie extensions I have like ebay: or imdb:, which may be in the mainline config now since they're pretty obvious).. and don't forget that all those kioslaves, URIs in general, and konq shortcuts are available in the Run Command kicker applet, as well as all path'd binaries... Add Run Command to your kicker, and put in, say, "gg: KDE kparts" and hit enter. Or specify a pathname, or imap mailbox URL, or whatever.

      d) Sound system=annoying at times. System notifications are sometimes useful, but I wish there were a way to "suspend" it while running apps that need my soundcard resources (without timeout) without using eSound. Actually this is partly a linux sound issue though... OSS/ALSA apps tend not to play nice with multiple sources

      I've had a lot less trouble with ARTS lately, though that's more of a function of better multimedia support within KDE, which is better from a memory footprint standpoint anyway, but yeah wrapping everything else in artsdsp is tedious. Perhaps ARTS should just use a virtual sound device that emulates /dev/dsp, and not crash as much?

      Personally, KDE comes closest to Mac OS X as far as infrastructure is concerned.. It's as if the OS X techies ran amok without a persnickety despot demanding ease-of-use and consistency... Doesn't hurt that I run Baghira with 80's-LED-watch-fake-goldtone-brushed-metal and crimson liquid graphics..

  88. How is this flamebait? by shiftless · · Score: 1

    How is this flamebait? I happen to agree with him, and I use KDE exclusively on my desktop. KDE has some really neat, cool features (like ioslaves) and is miles ahead of Gnome in many areas, but you just can't beat Gnome's simplicity and clean look. KDE's cluttered, disorganized interface is annoying. It just feels more sluggish, too, though I'm not sure why.

  89. Interview with KDE developer... by soloha · · Score: 1

    on KDE4. Interesting stuff. http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2006/01/ 12/kde4.html

  90. Mirror? by PFI_Optix · · Score: 1

    Now that the site has been thoroughly slashdotted (and was crawling earlier when I tried to view it), is there anywhere else we can see these screens?

    --
    120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
  91. Gnome developers are still trying to reinvent W95. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >I don't know what the Gnome guys are up to...

    Well I'm sad to say that in my experience they're too busy trying to reinvent the file open dialogue, force the bloody awful spatial browsing idea on users and generally emulate 1980s operating systems to get on with anything useful.

    And this is from someone who loves Ubuntu, uses Gnome as his desktop, and would desperately like to use it as his day to day OS but simply can't do so due to the hideous drop in productivity when compared to using bloody Windows.

    e.g. I can't search for files in Nautilus by using the keyboard because pressing "F" takes you to the first item that stars with "F". Pressing "F" again does precisely NOTHING... In Windows explorer pressing "F" repeatedly cycles round all the files/folders that start with "F".

    And WTF do they keep changing the file open dialogue for ? Why have they replaced the address bar in Nautilus with that stupid locations crap ?

    Why do they treat their users like chimpanzees ????

  92. I hope you feel happy, by Sr.+Pato · · Score: 1

    You just single-handedly brought down kde-look.org
    Why DoS attack a server when you can just post a link on Slashdot?

    --
    Nobody's gay for Mole-Man. :-(
    1. Re:I hope you feel happy, by vdboor · · Score: 1

      Whoops.. something I've overlooked, and no it was not my intention to bring down kde-look

      --
      The best way to accelerate a windows server is by 9.81 m/s2 ;-)
  93. Re:Yawn I go notally tuckin' futs by davidsyes · · Score: 1

    just putting up with windoze's interface at workplaces. I recently contracted with a couple guys who also use Linux at home, but we have (had in my case) to use windoze xp or 2k at work. Two of us just cannot fathom how geeks in windows land put up with the xp/2k windowing interface. It (the stock version) is so limiting and so downright uninspired.

    I have been using KDE since 1999 off and on, and then regularly since about mid 2000 up to 10-15 hours a day when my computer is on. I surf in it. I file manage in it. I archive pages via the .war-making archiver.

    I LOVE being able to minimize, roll up, and shade KDE when IIIII feel like it. I like being able to Alt-RightDrag a window to resize it. I can't DO those things with windoze or stock windoze. I utter recoiled in fury when in the past ms' bizarre logic told ME I could not resize the canvas to see dialog in the bars and in other places.

    KDE might be a memory hog and chew up 50MB per instance, but I sometimes have 7 instances of KDE open and two of them have 3 to 15 tabs running.

    I wish book mark management from the menu bar were improved...I have sloppy bookmark management and now my entire desktop is blanketed with folders and bookmarks--mostly folders. It would be nice if it could sense your screen resolution and desktop space and then offer up a "re-org" dialog for dragging and dropping stuff. But, that's an individual user issue, I admit.

    I TRIED using Gnome/Nautilus a few times. I used Enlightenment, mainly to show off the cool/snazzy window effects to observers. I used ICEWFM and Blackbox/Fluxbox. Why'd I stop? Well, Kicker and Kasbar are TWO main reasons. I LOVE Kasbar's snapshot/preview. When the preview icon setting is large, it looks KEWL.

    Also, I LOVE chewing up RAM with 1 desktops, each virtual desktop cycling thru dozens if not up to 100 different images. I only have 256 MB RAM on a 900 MHz celery processor FIC computer case I built into a home-made machine. It's quiet. Actually, the hard drive is quieter, but I am thinking of putting a spare laptop disk on the connector vice the 5.25 inch disk. The machine is virtually silent with the laptop drive. It's also virtually silent with the Seagate "Barracuda 7200.7 160 Gbytes" disk (it's got some special bearings or fluid mounting system going on in it...)

    Yeh, I LOVE KDE, even tho in this Mandriva 2005 LE it blows up and locks up my machine (or, there's some trojan/rootkit I need to hunt down...). Yesterday, it crashed when I killed Firestarter via a button on the title bar vice killing it via the Firestarter menu. Was the first time KDE locked up THAT way for me. Since I don't have a serial connection, I had to reboot. Sometimes when I run Win4Lin, Amarok or KSCD, and have Etherape, Firestarter, and 10 different terminals and KDE sessions going, it's inevitable that I'm thrashing disk and swapping RAM like crazy. Then, BING. KDE goes flashes out like a failed star (minus the gravimetric and light show effects), I see a black desktop, and have NO keyboard response. I definitely should go to Mandriva 2006 (full-distro) AND go to 512 MB or more, but I'm NOT going past 900 MHz unless there is a compelling reason. I don't play games, so so far I don't have such a reason...

    --
    Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  94. Planet Diaz by PW2 · · Score: 1

    (although in all fairness, it being slashdotted doesn't help).

    Yeah, looks like when they were listed on Slashdot, they took it up 'Diaz'.

  95. ROFL Losers by aybiss · · Score: 0

    *This* is why I laugh when people tell me Linux desktops are getting better. Ummmm, since when does more colourful/transparent/3D/whatever mean more productive? Why is it that anyone gives a shit about this? Where is the improvements that stop annoying applications stealing focus, force windows to behave nicely, etc? LMAO, literally. Same shit different day.

    --
    It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
  96. Even I Could Code This... by Guido69 · · Score: 1

    "This Account Has Been Suspended Your account at StackedTech Hosting Solutions has been suspended because of breaking the Terms of Services or going over bandwidth limit. UPDATE: If your account was suspended and you don not know why then it is probaly because of our recent server outage. We are checking all accounts for viruses/ or users that are attempting to hack our server. If this is the case then your account will be unsuspended in a few ours. Contact support@stackedtech.com for more information on your account. Please include username and domain. Thanks"

    Hell, even *I* could code that "interface".

    --
    - If we aren't supposed to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat? - Steven Wright
  97. UNIX was founded on a plain text command line by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and that's where it should stay!!

    I don't need this shitty bloatware clogging up my trusty, AMD K6-III system,, and

    we sure as fuck don't need a W.I.M.P. interface to appeal to the stupid proles who don't even DESERVE to use a computer.

  98. Talk about being "slashdotted"! by crusher-1 · · Score: 1

    This is what I found when following the link for the screenshots:

    "This Account Has Been Suspended
          Your account at StackedTech Hosting Solutions has been suspended because of breaking the Terms of Services or going over bandwidth limit. UPDATE: If your account was suspended and you don not know why then it is probaly because of our recent server outage. We are checking all accounts for viruses/ or users that are attempting to hack our server. If this is the case then your account will be unsuspended in a few ours. Contact support@stackedtech.com for more information on your account. Please include username and domain. Thanks
      Please contact support as soon as possible."

    Poor guy. So much for his website!