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Robotic 'Pack Mule' with Impressive Reflexes
moon_monkey writes "New Scientist has a story about a nimble, four-legged robot that can recover its balance even after being given a hefty kick." From the article: "The project is sponsored by the US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), who want the robotic pack mule to assist soldiers in terrain too tough for vehicles. Ground-based soldiers often need to carry 40 kilograms of equipment. Raibert says the latest version of BigDog can handle slopes of 35 - a steeper gradient than one in two. The hydraulics are driven by a two-stroke single-cylinder petrol engine, and it can carry over 40 kg, about 30% of its bodyweight. The robot can follow a simple path on its own, or can be remotely controlled."
Why is this better than just a mule? Let's see... Mules eat plants and grasses found naturally in the area. The electronic mule requires electricity. Great if you're in a city in the USA. Bad if you're in terrain thats "too tough for vehicles".
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...a nimble, four-legged robot that can recover its balance even after being given a hefty kick... The hydraulics are driven by a two-stroke single-cylinder petrol engine, and it can carry over 40 kg, about 30% of its bodyweight.
Who's the brute who kicked that robot?
Robotic mules designed to assist people? Cool, we can colonize planet Irata now!
Units, people, units! "A slope of 35" is almost as useless as "steeper gradient than one in two".
One in two what? Come on, it's not that hard to put some units in there and remove any ambiguity. This is a general interest board, and your terminology is far from clear, especially given that this is a US-centric site and you seem to be using a more UK-like slang.
Nice robodonkey.
WHERE'S OSAMA?
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make install -not war
http://www.bostondynamics.com.nyud.net:8090/dist/B igDog_Feb-26-2006.wmv
Put through the Coral CDN, just in case.
The robot looks fairly hilarious when it walks, since it moves a lot like two biped robots (imitating the motion of human legs) facing each other. The whining mechanical noise is also pretty funny, since it sounds like a mechanical goat. However, it does withstand the kick pretty impressively.
How far can it go before it runs out of fuel ?
How much capacity can you sacrifice on jerrycans before it's useless ?
Isn' this just an excuse to build a robo-pony for some generals daughter ?
Really - the next thing will probably be a suicide Aibo (maybe that's why they aren't selling those any more ).
see topic.
A "gradient of one in two" is a dimensionless ratio. A slope is the mathematical slope in %, which, again, is a dimensionless ratio.
Try Corewar @ www.koth.org - rec.games.corewar
I just don't know why anyone would ever call it a "pack mule" when its real name, "BigDog", is so much cooler.
Also, did anyone watch the movie of BigDog? It looks really creepy, actually. I guess I was subconsciously expecting to see, oh I don't know, a big robotic dog, maybe Bell from "Bell and Sebastion" with metal instead of fur. Intead BigDog looks more like something you would frantically blow away in Starship Troopers before it rips your head off with its long insect-like legs. If I had one, I think I'd want to attach something to it that looks like a little like a head, at least. When they kick it, and it moves its legs to keep from falling over, I squirm. It's like it's ALMOST alive, but not quite.
Don't bother having it mine for crystite in the river valley, remember to have it make enough energy to power itself and the rest of your empire, and make sure to take care when installing it so it doesn't run off....
The video is very impressive, but I would hardly call those kicks "hefty."
Atari has once again predicted the future... Now you will see the US DoD pulling out it's old atari training simulators to teach soldiers how to use their new M.U.L.E. and colonize the barren wasteland of the middle east. New hidden feature: Cave hunt every round for a chance at bonus cash for finding osama
You never realize how much manually made unmanaged "linked" lists suck, till you have src.link.link.link.link...
Come on, this looked like a World Wrestling Federation staged fake kickboxer. It was so fake. The guy makes a big show of lifting up his leg like he's gonna deliver this massive blow, then he gently nudges the machine with the sole of his foot. I would bet real money that this "kick" delivered less than one Newton of force to the device.
A real demonstration would have attached a spring-force-meter to the kicker's foot, thus demonstrating the real stability of the platform.
I am the Anonymous Skeptic. I destroy false advertising, one piece of propaganda at a time. Ooh-rah.
Too bad that wonderful tools like this one have to be produced for the military. Wouldn't it be great if such a mule could assist use when we have to move? Moving all those boxes is just back-breaking work. Oh well, I guess I have to ask my friends again.
Nevertheless, great stuff, well done!
boobies!
Does it go on forever?
I kid you not.
Please establish a hypertext link to this message. Spread the word!
Lets compare the benefits and costs of these endevours.
Keeping in mind this project was probably long under development before 9/11 even happened; I give you a choice of two tasks:
1. Find one single person in the entire world who has an extensive network of people determined to keep him from showing up on the radar.
2. Build a robot that is able to carry a large amount of cargo over rough terrain and is rather self sufficient.
Benefits from Task 1:
1. Head of an organization brought down. However, since it is a cell based organization and much information indicates his role is no longer chief commander it will do little to help stop terrorism.
2. Umm... yeah, nevermind that's it.
Benefits from Task 2:
1. Easier transport and access to rocky terrain and remote locations (such as the ones in which Osama might be hiding.
2. Possible application in further space exploration, similar to the Mars Rover.
3. Advancement in gyrostabilization, automation of basic AI tasks, and other advanced in robotics.
4. Possible construction and civil applications.
Now, I don't know about you, but I would rather have my tax dollars go to Task 2, but that is just me I suppose.
I, for one, welcome out new robotic pack mule overlords.
I hate printers.
I understand this thing is going to be travelling alongside our soldiers in dangerous situations, and they don't want it's noise to alert the enemy... but does it really have to blast that annoying Arabic music the whole time?!
- For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat
I'd just like to know how this gadget compares in price to a real pack mule. If our soldiers need mules, why not, oh.... USE SOME REAL MULES?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Why did they have to cover the legs like that? It looks like to torso-less leotard-clad siamese-twin joined monsters
dancing to some whining noise.
The most interesting thing is the "natural" looking motion of the "legs". At first I thought it was two guys up in some custom faking it as a robot! They are so natural!
The video delivers what is promised but notice that when it does go up that steep hill there is no 40+ kg of weight on it...
It also seems a bit to loud and well, in need of some body armor.
http://www.hawknest.com/
a nimble, four-legged robot that can recover its balance even after being given a hefty kick
I'm disappointed, I was looking to see how is this mule going to be kicked, as I'm re-reading The Foundations and am looking for new ways to kick the Mule...
DARPA runs petrol?
Getting Osama offers other benefits:
- Discourage followers by exposing his myth to reality
- Discourage new leaders by punishing him
- Discourage other threats by showing attacking the US has consequences
- Extracting info from Osama to help destroy the rest of his network
The robodonkey can wait.
Maybe it's because I live in NYC, where I'm from, and get to look at where the WTC used to be most days, that I actually care about getting the guy who did it. Maybe you think letting him go to work on a science project instead is OK because you don't live here. Or maybe you don't live here because your kind of thinking doesn't add up to the kind of success that lets you live in a competitive place like NYC.
I note that my NY tax dollars probably subsidize your state expenditures quite a bit. Probably starting from when your grandpappy killed all those indians for his free land, using plain old mules.
I'm glad you're satisfied with the status quo. I note that Osama is satisfied, too.
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make install -not war
Impressive sense of balance (the second kick in the video where it uses an almost simian method to get it's feet back under it is amazing). That's quite a step forward for robotics, though it's not particularly practical as a pack-mule alternative *yet*.
However, that thing desperately needs a muffler--is anybody else having flashbacks to "Dumb and Dumber"?
"Hey, you guys want to hear the most annoying sound in the world?"
Mules, horses, camels, and others that I can't think of have been used since before recorded time. And they have always been a logistical nightmare, which is why they were replaced as soon as motorized vehicles became reliable enough.
A mule eats and drinks every day. It can carry its own food and water, but that means it carries a lot less of what you needed it to carry. Or you spend a significant portion of your day foraging, which means you aren't accomplishing your mission.
Gasoline has a very good energy density. A truck can easily carry the amount of fuel it needs to go 100 miles, with most of its payload available to you. Most of the load for a mule or horse to go 100 miles would be its own food and water. Plus, a mule eats even when you aren't moving. A truck doesn't.
Ships are the most efficient form of transportation, but can only go where there's water. Canals take time to build. Railroads are almost as efficient, but laying track is expensive, and the tracks are vulnerable. Trucks are less efficient, but roads are easier to build. So it comes down to logistic efficiency and infrastructure. An engine-powered walker needs the least infrastructure, while keeping most of the efficiency.
Anyone else ever thought of going to one of these with a few good friends, some paintball guns loaded with those cayenne pepper balls the anti-riot police use, you know, just to have some good clean fun? (i.e. camping hoes and johns, just like in CS) Or am I the only one?
Personally, that's what I'd call "full service". Fun for everyone involved, no doubt!
I am afraid it might be an example of the so called white elephant. Sadly, we in America have many of these.
It holds (approximately) 20 pounds.
Am I the only person that this is a really overpriced piece of machinery for what it can do?
Arrrrrrr
A 1,200 lb mule can carry up to 240 lbs of pack, eats grasses found nearly everywhere, will be reasonably quiet when well-treated, is smart enough not to walk off a cliff when the mule skinner isn't paying the best of attention, and will cost you under US$2000 per head. In addition, we know mules can be combat-trained, as mule trains were used to pull artillery on battlefields, and when worse comes to worst, you can eat it.
This thing can carry a bit more, eats gasoline, makes as much noise as a gas turbine, will happily stroll into harm's way, and will likely cost on the order of a luxury car per unit. While there will be no training needed, when it breaks down it's just so much spare parts.
Part of the reason for wanting something that can go anywhere is that the trucks you currently have *can't*. So how are you going to refuel the mechanical mule? Can this thing pack enough spare fuel *and* have enough capacity left to be useful?
I think I'll stick with the mule.
-- Cerebus
Important questions:
1) How long does it last without repairs
2) Can it withstand harsh weather (snow, ice, rain, SAND)
3) How long do the batteries last and how will it re-power? A solar panel would be great for this thing!
Until these questions are resolved there are fairly limited military options for this freakishly human thing.
"Mules eat plants and grasses found naturally in the area."
And our solders can eat the mule. I'll bet the robotic one doesn't taste good even with barbecue sauce.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
tachikoma is born! yay! now all we need is strong AI and sticky projectile webs.
I think robotics is cool and all but anyone that thinks that making robots replace people is a good thing should read two stories.
t ml
Manna by Marshall Brain
http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm
and more importantly The Machine Stops,by E. M. Forester, written in 1909 and extremely prophetic
http://brighton.ncsa.uiuc.edu/~prajlich/forster.h
While I do understand that this is a proof-of-concept model, there's still something very sardonic about the entire article, especially when it emphasizes the fact that the "mule" "can carry over 40 kg, about 30% of its bodyweight," which implies that "mule's" weight is ~130 kg. Follow that with the "[it can be used] to take the weight off a tired soldier" and you get an interesting dilemma: ok, so it can take the weight off a tired soldier, but what I really wonder is who carries this ~130kg beast during the times when its assistance is not needed and no vehicles are available nearby? If you ask me, I'd rather stick to my 40 kg backpack...
Maybe this will allow the US to finally hunt down Osama and Co. in presently unreachable areas of the Afghan terrain? Certainly that's the first thing that shot in my mind reading the excerpt as a purpose for this design.
They created us to carry their burden, and it was good .....
Then they kicked us, and it started...
God created man in his own image, but somehow he evolved into a hairless monkey.
I'm glad to hear that he's back.
but can it run linux? :-P
I also read another article about a vehicle the Pentagon is testing, but I forget what it was about.
Finally, something that can carry a full keg, across abusive terrain and not fall down in a druken stupor. I see a great future renting these for senior class keggers. Maybe integrate the walker into the keg, So if the cops show up, and a little AI ( lots of shouting and the words "freeze assholes" ) it can run and hide in the forest with all the other kiddies.
Jim.
This article rules. It shows that the Slashdot readership has grown quite diverse... as in diversely not nerds :-P
Since when do Slashdot readers feel the need to criticize large government agencies who fund R&D for building robots?
Jeez people. This thing is cool.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osama_dead.html So please, stop asking. This robot's not going to help find him unless it can dig.
I just watched the video of this robotic "pack mule". Given that the "knees" of the front legs face the knees of the back legs, I wonder if anyone else was reminded of Doctor Dolittle's PushMi-PullYu?
>four-legged robot that can recover its balance even after being given a hefty kick
I would like to mention that PETA opposes the degrading treatment of all animal lifeforms be it carbon, steel or silicon based. Cruelty against animals is simply unacceptable!
I personally hope that this cyber-mule is not bound by the three laws of asimovian robotics, so it can return that heavy kick to the stupid GI who mistreated him/her and then escape to live a free life among the majestic wild mustangs of america. Long live the brotherhood of carbon and silicon lifeforms!
"the second kick in the video where it uses an almost simian method to get it's feet back under it is amazing."
In that second clip, the unit is tethered. This could mean that it an older video, but my money is on a different explanation: it needs external power and/or external computing power to do what it does there.
So, I think that that video is rigged somewhat.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RGrMMlNjBB8 A live mule doesn't make that alarming buzzing noise to alert your enemies of your exact location. It's a feature!
Llamas
from the article:
"The Israeli army has gone wild and enlisted the llama, originally from Latin America, as a new if unconventional hardware carrier for infantry units on rugged terrain, a military source said. ADVERTISEMENT Two commando units operating in northern Israel near the volatile Lebanese border have been supplied with llamas each capable of carrying 60 kilograms (132 pounds), the source said. A disciplined beast, the llama has excellent hearing and a highly developed sense of smell..."
Put a camera with motion detectors with a machine gun on top and see the difference.
:)
Send a few hundered of these into battle ahead of real troops and you get a real edge on the enemy.
You see you can't get real mules to kill people
...you set the robot mule's switch to co-operative. The last guy left it on cantankerous and boy was he sorry.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
They need to equip it with a spinning wheel.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
So, I think that that video is rigged somewhat.
You'll notice that you have audio in that scene and no Jim Carrey impression. It could be this is an earlier version of the bot where processing was done offboard that was moved onboard later, but I doubt that. They perform an identical kick test outside and it seems to respond just as well. My guess is that the unit is identical to the outdoors one except that in the lab they have a power source that allows them to run the 'bot without running that gorram awful two-stroke motor.
Which makes sense, because when you're running ultra-repetitive tests in a lab environment, you really don't want your senior scientists and interns slowly reduced to gibbering loons by that nightmarish sound.
...a chevaline prototype!
It can carry 30% of it's own weight? They should make a robotic ant instead! Besides, two-stroke petrol engines are too noisy, an enemy patrol could spot you from a kilometer away. And besides again, two-stroke engines pollute more than four-stroke engines (not really a thinh to think about in war time, anyway).
So say we all
That uncanny valley thing has something going for it but what.. this looks like a enemy a la Dr. Who. Actually the movie started out looking like a bad scifi flick! I mean the shapeless, bandlike legs are wrapped in amorphous swaths of black cloth for pete's sake!
I have often imagined it would be nice to have a simple robotic aid walking along beside me to carry a computer bag or suitcase, and imagine wheels or some rotating feet. Maybe a little tank tread, for example in Tokyo they have things on a single tank tread in train stations to lift bales of newspapers over stairs and walk it across the station. But this is another story. The tank treads or something cute and well balanced would evince a "cool!" or "neat!" or "how smart!" reaction. This however evinces revulsion, it looks anemic, sick, taken over by parasites, etc. It looks like it spends most of its time actually bouncing up and down or meaninglessly moving diagonally with no clear idea of the direction it should be going in. Looks like the head is in the rear even though who knows. Anyway a few more generations and it and a few hundred of its friends ought to be able to lug all kinds of explosives up into Osama's cave so you know there's a lot more of this coming. Looks more like a PR thing to scare people.. but technically it's pretty impressive.
... Will the mule have lasers mounted on it's head?
Isn't really a novel idea, it reminds me of this prototype, developed by General Electric for the US Army in the sixties (see also).
...it's operated both in field tests and tethered in a lab (when trying out things you're worried might not work), and it has to run on alternate power indoors because of fire codes.
Just sayin'.
And I'm not talking about the Marines. The Army still uses horses for patroling mountain areas. I know, I rode one. Would rather have had a motorcycle, a diesle KLR-650... but the Horse was a better choice for the terrain. Special Forces uses them too, but you are not going to see that in any recruiting posters. Photos are out there of US Special Forces riding into battle in Afghanistan on horseback. Why? Because that's what the native soldiers they were working with were riding. DARPA is also working on Sharks for patrol and tracking and of course we all know about the Navy using Dolphins for sub and mine hunting. The biggest use of animals in the miliary remains dogs. Big dogs are used daily for security and patrol work. You think a Police K9 dog is badass? You should see the ones used by Army MP's. Damn. Impressive beasts. This robotic unit is a good idea, if you can replicate the qualities of working animals in a robotic package without unique logistical issues that animals have. (You guys forgot disease and injuries) Then we would have a better and rapidly deployable transport vehicle. The two stroke engine is a bad idea. I was Light Infantry when I was in the Army and let me tell you guys - there are a lot of times when you don't want ANY sound. An Animal sound might not be so bad sometimes... but a an unnatural sound, like metalic or engine noise - that would have awarded me and my guys a rain of mortar fire more than a few times. So while this might be a good idea... unless it can be made totally silent - it's going to be just about totally useless in modern warware with the units that it is supposed to be deployed with. Because I was once on of those tired soldiers that would have loved to have had something to carry my pack. But if it made noise - no thanks. Taking this idea forward... if they made them Horse sized and as fast as a horse... that would make for a nice replacement for those critters. Especially if they don't buck you off into a bed of cacti like what happened to me. I'm no John Wayne that's for sure. Farking horses.
MadOgre.com
This is cool, although I admit the film did look like Muppet pr0n (Naked Muppets dancing for your pleasure).
Cthulhu Barata Nikto
It's not only useful, it's WHISPER-QUIET!!!
I didn't see any terrain in the video that wasn't negotiable by even a fairly mundane subcompact economy car, let alone a Hummvee or ATV.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Can no one here see the potential this device brings? Look 20 years past this loud wobbly "Mule" to this http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/Anti-Proton/ Cougar_revised.jpg
...what people who are actually good at this stuff, like Honda, can do. Are we seeing a bit of PsyOps ("Bletchly Park can crack any code"), here? The idea being, if They can afford to release this into the public arena, what are They holding back? Obviously, Gundam suits and Terminators, right? I don't think any country which actually has black ops working on combat robotics is worried by this, about as colossally under-scaled as Don Rumsfeld's low budget "shock and awe" campaign. E.g., the Chinese probably remember Chosun Reservoir every bit as well as the U.S. Army does, so the next real-life million man attack wave is just as likely to be a billion gecko-footed hand grenades as not, wooden cha think?
``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
The Imperial Times reported this a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away: 5 of these were used to to take out the shield generators on Hoth!
Looks cool, but why drive it with a 2 stroke engine? From my experience, getting a 2 stroke to run longer than about 2 hours at idle or an hour under load is a miracle. Why not use a similarly sized 4 stoke that would run forever?
I could develop a genetically engineered super mule for you that would have the strength of a hundred mules and would be so intelligent it wouldn't even follow orders. Any takers?
I would be even more impressed if the "mule" turned around and kicked him back.
If they had a horse like that in that infamous movie, some people might actually have gone to see it...
Oh well, what the hell...
Think of field servicability. A humble 2 stroke is about the simplest engine you can put in the field (apart froma diesel, but that's a different ballgame altogether). A 2 stroke has few parts (which also means less bits that can go wrong) and carrying spares is thus easy. I'm not sure if the power output to weight ratio is better as well, if I remember well from my motorcycle days that is pretty much a given too but that's not quite as scientific as I'd like ;-).
..
Having said that, it's only a theory. Maybe they only had a grasmower to work with, having spend all teh money on *SERIOUSLY* good hydraulic actuators. It's seriously weird to watch this thing - impressive, but weird
Insert
Let's add it all up, shall we?
;-). And the weight during transport doesn't change unless you, er, 'lose' the byproducts. You could always call it an audit trail, but I think you'll end up with some problems.
..
(1) Mules are animals. Read: heaps of people will get upset because you put a mule in the line of fire. Somehow no-one cares that much for people, but God help us if it's an animal.
(2) You can't switch off a mule for transport, nor can you compact it for that purpose (well, not without rendering it useless
(3) It's harder to carry spare parts for mules. You end up carrying spare mules, so there goes your weight advantage.
(4) Now call me cynical, but I personally think this is about reason one why your mules won't win: there isn't much profit on them. Supplying military hardware is all about absorbing as much as possible from your taxes. I could name numerous ways in which military procurement could be made MUCH more efficient, especially in the computing part (and the resulting logistical efficiencies), but who would be interested? It would nuke a lot of profit, so you'd immediately end up with "studies" and "white papers" that would "prove" it would never work - I've seen quite a bit of that over the years.
In summary, I think mules are quite safe from military deployment once this project gets, um, legs
Insert
You got it backwards. Two strokes have better power/weight than 4 strokes. Consumption and pollution much worse though.
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
Two stroke engines are stinking messes. They smell bad, they leave an oil film all over everything nearby. Most civilized people have outlawed them. The oil vapor will sicken any people or animals that are nearby, especially for extended periods. Heaven help the poor slob who has to hike next to one.
Hey dudes, is a book, reference (The second Foundation, Isaac Asimov), and there is a character called "The Mule" (the reason is in the book itself, im not gonna to spoil it :P )...
...may be funny..., but troll seems soo much for me...
so...in my opinion..it isnt very offtopic
Cool technology, but doesn't seem very practical.
With what they have so far, I don't see any reason not to just use a tracked vehicle. The sense of balance is impressive, but if you don't have all your weight mounted so high it becomes less of an issue.
See subject :P
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
It's the Luggage from Discworld! RUN!
someone had to say it.
http://www.areadan.com/
http://www.areadan.com
Screw the super-intelligent mule... or uh... not. Develop me some new coworkers that are just able to follow orders and I'll be happy.
I've watched the movie several times now, and one thing most certainly sticks out. Notice how the legs work in caddycorner pairs. The front passenger side and rear driver side *always* pick up at the same time, as do the opposite pair. I bet that if the software were made more robust, one could give it a stabilityspeed setting that sets the duty cycle for 3 foot and 2 foot time, although I doubt this robot would ever fully leave the ground like a real horse can. Even better though, I bet this baby can be scaled up and haul some major storm tr.. err.. ground forces. Even better, I bet NASA could retrofit these babies with RTG (Plutonium heat battery, eh?) power sources and use them to explore the planets of remote solar-systems.
For now, there is PETA (People for the Ethical Treament of Animals. Probably for good (if sometimes overzealous) reasons.
For the time being, there is no PETR (...Robots). There are plenty of risky situations where a robotic carrier would be of more use than a mule. Particularly, if the robot can be effectively small arms resistant.
The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
This is just the first model, who cares if this one is better than a real mule or not. Give it another 10 years upgrading getting better and better with each design and you could end up with something that can lift more 10x what a mule can move. Which would you prefer to have then?
I saw the video at video.google.com the other day, and it's impressive, but clearly needs some work. The balance mechanism only seems to work by lifting its leg and placing it farther away, which results in significant sideways travel when attempting to go straight in slippery terrain. Sort of like when you trip or slip and you have to throw a leg out in front of you to keep from falling. Actually exactly like that.. Imagine if you had to do that every time your balance shifted even slightly. While its ability to accurately place its legs to counter a fall is impressive, it's not the most elegant solution. The ability to lean and shift its center of gravity would help immensely. Once this thing can rear up on two legs and kick people, I'll be duely impressed.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
This thread seem to consistently miss the obvious point of this research, it is to throw bits of metal into the fray rather than taxpayers and their children. Think of these machines as the proxies for all the GWB's and DC's who wouldn't put themselves or their kids in harms way (But of course are more than willing to send yours). This device can carry the equipment necessary to be mobile, linked by satellite, and armed.
AIK
How dare they steal Waluigi's leg's those fuckers! http://www.mariotendo.com/wallpaper_800x600_waluig i_dtb.jpg They even have the same walk. Gyahaha