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Frustration With Oblivion Mod Costs on Xbox Live
Vizionary wrote to mention the player backlash swelling out of a recent addition to Xbox Live. Major Nelson's blog made the announcement that they'd finally added the (previously announced) barding for the player mount in Oblivion. The catch is that the simple modification costs 200 points, removing a lot of the appeal of the small mods the Elder Scrolls series has thrived on. From commenter 'SW 1540' on that site: "Unquestionably, some downloadable content should cost money/points. Having said that, the cost of that content should be directly proportional to the enhancement it provides to the original game. For example, I would expect to pay $20.00 for the soon to come Perfect Dark Zero maps or new cars for Project Gotham. On the other hand, I would expect any additional costumes for PDZ to be free. I imagine there is good arguments on both sides, but one can see that the potential is there to exploit an eager fan. "
Remember when people used to play online games on PC, and there was thousands of Maps, Models, and complete game Mods available for free on the internet. Oh, and you could play for free, as long as you could find someone who wanted to run the server. Yeah, those were the days.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Christ. It's pronounced "horse armor".
You know where you are? You're in the $PATH, baby. You're gonna get executed!
How much money is 200 points? Not everyone plays X-Box Live you know.
I am unamerican, and proud of it!
While the armor is pretty, I can see how a "skin" (even if it adds armor points to the horse) at $2.50 does seem to be nickel and dimeing the player. Especially for people who were used to Morrowinds free mods that completely revamped the world.
I guess this is an experiment with the micro content that Microsoft was looking to build an "ecosystem" of. Bah, I hate that marketoid term. Apparently the ecosystem complains loudly; wonder what that bodes for sustaining such prices for such small add-ons.
Sig under construction since 1998.
I hate to say it, but I'm one of the tools that just egged them on yesterday by buying the download. I felt awful about it afterwards because:
A - It wasn't worth $2.50.
B - They really shouldn't be rewarded for charging for something that used to be free and probably should've been free considering the 360 owners already paid more than the PC people.
You may now "crucificate" me.
Must feel nice for 360 owners to pay more for the game, then get the privilege of paying for stuff that PC gamers can simply download (or make) for free.
Seriously, $2.50 for horse armor? At that rate, I can only imagine what actual content would cost.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
Several Oblivion players have been getting dirty disc errors when playing the game on the 360. It's not the disc, either - I got another brand new copy from the rental store and still no joy. The game crashed out with these errors once every few hours of play. Other users did similar and still got the errors with the game (and with no other games). Still, give how much of a bugged trainwreck the original Morrowind on X-Box was, it's not all that surprising. It's dissapointing though, since Oblivion's much more fun than Morrowind, the Dark Brotherhood quests being particularly cool. I think I'll wait for the Game of the Year edition before buying it. As for purchasing content, where MS has their customers by the balls is the way that you can't just download and distribute content for free as you can with the PC version of the game. Even if free user-created content is put on Live, which seems unlikely, it'd still have to go through Microsoft for approval.
You're going to see a lot of developers holding back content so they can make you pay more through XBox Live. Here's hoping Nintendo and Sony take full advantage of the mistakes that are being made with Live. This is a great example of what *not* to do with an online service. Micropayments will be their downfall.
In an MMORPG, its against policy to sell in-game items to other players. In single player RPGs, its policy to sell in-game items to players. Now I'm confused.
My character runs faster than the horse. That's not taking into account sitting there watching the mount/dismount animations.
So:
Paying for X-box = Paying for PC.
Paying for X-box live = Paying for ISP.
Paying for additional content is kind of a new concept. Rather than charging an ambiguous 15/month for new content, they let the end user pick and choose what mods are worth what, by choosing their own downloads. I think this is a pretty cool idea, a shame it wouldn't really work out in the MMO world so much since everyone has to be playing the same game, where in a single player game it's ok for everyone to play something different.
I do kind of think $2.50 is steep for a particular armor model, but then again I look at the suggestion boards for a game like world of warcraft, where thousands of suggestions hit a board and most don't get implemented, maybe by creating a more capitalistic system, there will be a better balance between content demand and supply.
You can get 15 minutes of fame, but you can go down in history for infamy.
That's retarded. Why don't they just make 100 points = $1, aka 1 point = 1 cent. That would make it a lot easier to gauge the actual value or things. Maybe that's the point, I guess..
Joseph?
You do not have to pay to be a member of xbox live. Xbox Live Silver membership is free and allows you to maintain a friend list, voice chat, and download content for free(or with points if required). The benifit of the pay subscription to lvie is, you guessed it, playing multiplayer games online, and the leader boards.
"The only MMORPG I play is Guild Wars because I refuse to pay money for a game then be forced to pay a monthly fee to play it."
So basically, you pay $50 up front for the game and would rather pay for content as you go and as they add it regularly. I might be missing something, but I fail to see how this is different from a monthly fee?
Anyway, something as small as this should be a free enhancement. Now, if they added in new player armor, weapons, and other goodies along with it, then I could see it having a cost. What I saw on the blog probably took 3 to 4 hours of time to make, which probably costs the maker a couple of grand in labor, software, and hardware. Compare that to the possible thousands and thousands of dollars they would get from the download charge, and that's just plain greedy. I put this in the light that people have spent $60-$70 for the game already, not to mention the Live sub, and that's a hell of a lotta phat-lootz.
Not exactly.
XBox live doesn't substitute for an ISP; it's just an account service. You still need network access.
On a computer or under a hood.
So basically, you pay $50 up front for the game and would rather pay for content as you go and as they add it regularly. I might be missing something, but I fail to see how this is different from a monthly fee?
Most MMOs I remember buying recently (Earth and Beyond, FFIX, CoH) charged me $50 up front for the game plus one month's service--so about $40 for the game--and then also charged a monthly fee. One advantage that GW has is that so long as the servers are running you can still play the game--you don't _have_ to buy into the expansions, which is more or less what you agree to do with a monthly fee. Then, you get hit with the cost of REAL expansion packs on top of "ongoing improvements" paid for by your monthly fee.
I'd feel better about buying MMOs if I didn't have to shell out for a product that's worthless once I stop paying the fee, or if game support is ceased (take, for example, my E&B disc, which is now a mostly useless relic). I also think that by the time I've paid for the cost of another whole game in monthly fees, the developers more or less owe me new content--I'll give them leeway for maintenance and staff costs, of course, but at some point I expect to look back and say that I've gotten something for my monthly fee other than permission to continue playing.
I'm only really bitter about FFXI. It's the only FF game that I won't be able to simply go back and play around with later on. I wouldn't be so let down if there were some kind of offline mode for it--but then why play online?
It's really mind-boggling that Bethesda thinks it's okay to sell a CD full of actual content for $50-70, and still thinking it's okay to sell a couple of extra skins for $1.99-$2.50.
Why didn't they follow the same pricing model when selling their game? Surely if 2 skins are worth $2.50, then an entire CD filled with thousands of skins, logic, sprawling maps, etc would be worth several thousands of dollars per disc.
Bethesda should be ashamed.
Looks like they're charging for the PC addons as well. And have a couple more than just horse armor. I don't know that they're worth the $2 they're selling them for after all the free goodies the community created for Morrowwind but it'll be interesting to see if any other game devs follow their lead.
I might be missing something, but I fail to see how this is different from a monthly fee?
Wha...?
The terribly confusing difference you're apparently missing is that in the first case, you're paying a monthly fee to play the game, and in the second case... you're not. What, exactly, is the confusion? In scenario one, you buy a game, and you have to pay to play every month. In scenario two, you buy a game, and you can play it for as long as you want without paying anything more. I don't understand how you're mixing the two concepts up?
From now on, I buy only Intel.
This is Bethesda's doing, and not Microsoft's. Apparently, if you want the official Bethesda horse armor mod on the PC, you still have to pay $2.50, which is roughly the equivalent of 200 MS points.
I honestly don't see why everyone is freaking out about this; message boards seem to have exploded in rage all over the internet since yesterday, and it's really not that big a deal. I don't feel like $2.50 is worth a mod that doesn't actually do anything (the "armor" doesn't actually increase the horse's armor class, it just makes it look nice), and I feel like a lot of people are thinking the same thing. When Bethesda finds out that people aren't willing to pay that amount for so little, I'm guessing that future content will be priced more in line with the value it gives players. All in all, this really has nothing to do with Microsoft or how horrible the 360 is, but with why Bethesda chose that price for this particular content.
Those simple, powerful PCs that cost around $500, were compatible with ALL PC games, didn't need upgrading until the next complete system generation... Ya, me neither.
PCs and consoles aren't the same thing and aren't the same market. One simple, obvious difference would be price. The 360s are priced as cheap as their corrisponding graphics card for a PC. To get 360 level graphics, you need something on the order of a Radeon 1900XT. That's like $450 just for a graphics card, never mind the system needed to support it.
What it basically comes down to is the PC is a totally open environment. You set your hardware up as you like, you run the software you like, you mod it as you like, etc. That's how I like it and why I'll spend the money to play games on a PC (well that and I'd have a pwoerful PC regardless of games). However let's not pretend like it's always easy. Just last night I was fighting with an older game (KOTOR) to make it work well on my modern hardware which is way more than it needs.
Consoles are a more managed environment. The console maker supplies you with one, fixed system that you use and you don't tinker with it. All games work because they are certified and they know the platform they are writing for. There's no unexpected compatiblity problems with new hardware or software. They have a simple interface and do only one thing.
Well the whole pay-for X-box live service is really an extension of that model. Everything is centrally managed and controlled. It means you can't just go and run your own service but also means you don't have to rely on people who do. I can say form the Quake days there was a wide varity of servers out there. Some were top notch speed and stability wise (and usually hard to get a spot on) some played like they were being run on a 486 in some guy's bedroom... PRobably because they were being run on a 486 in some guy's bedroom.
I don't particularly think either PC or console gaming is superior, just different. I own a powerful PC anyhow, like PC games better, and value the ablity to hack around on my games so I do PC gaming. However I can see the appeal of the console system. Buy one, cheaper unit that will not be outdated for a number of years, then pay a service fee for someone to run the whole online aspect. It's simpler, and even after years of playing would add up to what the core of my current computer cost me.
Thanks Zonk! I'm glad this submission was accepted, but feel the original "tone" was lost in translation, so I'm posting it here just "for the record". Note: I was quite angry when I submitted it.
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Micro$oft's marketing droids have fired the first salvo in the latest round of Digital Restrictions Management Warfare. Oblivion, by Bethesda, widely believed to be the strongest candidate for 2006 Game Of The Year, has begun providing downloadable content via XBOX Live. This could be great news, but at roughly $2.50 for downloadable Horse Armor a mere two weeks after the game shipped, we all know this was carved from the game to be sold separately. Bethesda is also to blame here, with other similarly priced content on the way. How long until "essential" game content is withheld from a game release, only to be downloaded in Pay-Per-Play chunks?
------------------
Please note that I'm definitely not against pay-per-play as a viable model, however, for these guys to charge $2.50 for what basically amounts to a few texture maps and a mesh is a big step over the edge onto a slippery slope that could (will?) lead to more egregious violations of player trust. And, before everyone says "if you don't like it, don't buy it"...believe me, I won't. However, it's important to understand that without public backlash over this, the folks behind these machinations will continue forward, "innovating" online gaming to the point where you won't be able to complete a $60 game you purchased until you've spent another $40 on pseudo-essential add-ons. (Not picking on you, Bethesda, we love you guys!!!)
Why did I mention Digital Restrictions Management? Glad you asked. If player contributed content were available via XBOX Live, the "power" of this type of marketing ploy would be diffused against other, more affordable (even free in some cases) mods. Why no player contributed content? Well, first you need Micro$oft's permission to provide anything via Live. And, well, we'll just leave the DRM issue right there...it's just beating a dead horse with armor.
But, I digress...
Thank You, Bethesda, for Oblivion! You've restored my faith in immersive, interactive storytelling! Please use your amazing success with this game to help protect the future of downloadable content. I suppose that one way to do that would be to ensure that the price of content is in-line with the value of the content. And, it would be really nice if it were also tied to the actual "cost" of the content...but, hey, we can always dream.
Even though everyone is complaining about this the fact is that if people buy it then the experiment worked.
If people feel that it's a horrible thing by the developers to do and protest by not buying it then things like this wont happen, but, if people complain and buy it anyway then we'll see more and more things like this. Bitching on a message board wont change a thing if they profit off of the idea.
I think the mount mod is not worth it (and that should be the end of it - maybe if sales are poor MS will think to lower the price - no need for being a loudmouth on /. about it.
That aside, there is a ton of cool, free stuff on XBL 360. Games, videos. I liked the Natasha Beddingfield exclusive video.
No one forces you to buy a 360, no one forces you to buy Oblivion, no one forces you to buy Horse armor, no one forces you to buy Xbox live.
You buy it because you choose to do so. You buy it because it works, because you enjoy it and because you don't mind paying for someones hard work.
Sure horse armor for 2.50 is a joke. I don't dispute that. However the 360, xbox live and the game are all worth every penny i paid and then some. I'll choose not to buy the horse armor because..
you may guess it
i don't freaking HAVE to.
Thanks for blowing this way out of proportion and making yourselves look like idiots. Move along.
I work a lot with other companies in my business and this is a common issue. You pay a fortune for a service and usually the good contractors will provide a little extra value without charging. Sometimes though there are groups that are well known for nickle and diming us for everything we need, and its not large things. Sometimes its petty concerns even as pathetic as pencils and pens. Guess who I will give a contract to when I have the choice between the two companies? Horse armor is barely worth 50 cents, and any charge under $10 is just plain bad character. It just shows the kind of mentality Bethesda Software Microsoft have about their customers. Rather than seeing us as people who they want to make happy, they clearly see us as walking money pots and they want to grab all they can. Just keep this in mind. Next time you are at the store, think about this when you can choose between a Bethesda game and one from a company who actually likes to share content with fans in a more appropriate manner.
In an MMORPG, its against policy to sell in-game items to other players.
SOE changed that. There are authorized servers where this is allowed through official means. This allows the game creators to monitor the traffic and make sure no one gets ripped off. (they do take a cut, I believe.) EQ and EQ2.
In single player RPGs, its policy to sell in-game items to players. Now I'm confused.
These are external mods. Downloading one for your game doesn't affect the gameplay of others.
So what? You lament the loss of creativity and innovation in gaming, and so do I, but if that's what the market wants, that's what the market gets.
Besides, this is nothing new. How many Mario clones are out there? How many arcade games were based around the concept of an overhead space or plane shooter? How about in the mid 90s when every other game cabinet out of the factory was "MARVEL VERSUS BARBIE!! THE ULTIMATE SUPER KILLER STREET FIGHTER PUFF TOY SHOWDOWN!!!"
Hell, speaking of which, what about the old Street Fighter craze. There were at LEAST five official arcade versions of Street Fighter 2 alone.
No, nothing new. Nothing new at all.
From now on, I buy only Intel.
Welcome to product lock-in, they can charge you whatever they want since they control platform, distribution, titles and any and all networking.
it is interesting that the time it would have taken to set up the system to take and process payments for downloading the mods for the PC probably cost more and took more time than producing the actual content...so if they released it for nothing it likely would have cost them less...
Months ago, MS sold an alternate outfit for Kameo (main character in the game Kameo) for the same price I believe.
I didn't pay and I encourage others not to pay either.
I'm not against micropayments, but I lets make MS work for their money, make them develop good additional content. Like Geometry Wars.
When additional tracks/cars become available for PGR3, I don't know what I will do. I would like the content, but the problem is if we pay them, they'll leave stuff out of the next PGR3 on purpose, just so they can sell it to you later.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Isn't this the point of the Xbox Live Marketplace thing? I mean, microtransactions and all that? I could have sworn that people have been talking about this for quite a bit.
So much for the good old days where this kind of content was free. I would never even imagined I would have to pay for this sort of thing.
I can expect to pay something for a substantial mod that introduces a new storyline or something to that effect. But to be charged for something as simple as a new texture and maybe a new model is pathetic.
It's not like an MMO where we're playing on their servers. But here they are charging for an object that at best some employee threw together in an afternoon, at worst was originally created with the game but left out for the release. They apply a few stats to it and they're done.
If Bethesda are finding themselves in a situation where Oblivion isn't as profitable as they'd like because of what they've invested in it's development then they should be addressing the issue differently.
The first option is not to make the game so overwrought that they spend a fortune just creating the game. Focus on the gameplay. Don't get obsessed in the latest eye candy that doesn't add directly to gameplay and that even struggles to run on fairly recent video cards.
The second option is simply to charge a bit more for the game. That's not a pleasant option, but if the game is more expensive to produce then charge accordingly. Of course, then I wouldn't expect to have to pay for anything for these mods.
The problem is that the power is in the hands of the consumer. Unfortunately, too many consumers dont think. They're quick to defend these companies and readily pay for anything. The more these people happily accept this sort of the nonsense the more the rest of us are forced into these extortionist pricing models.
In a way I think MMOs have been a bad for the gaming industry. It's shown these companies that not only can they charge full price for a game, but convince people to pay a monthly fee to continue playing. And on top of that most of these games dont even provide significantly more content than a single player but instead are heavily padded with repetitive gameplay. Consumers seem to be more than willing to part with their money, so why not make things easy for them?
Ha! From your lips to Mattel's ears. Tell THEM that, every time my daughter wants an "upgrade" to her Barbi's accessories collection!
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
Pete Hines from Bethesda Software was kind enough to answer a few question and shed some light on the whole Horse Armor Spectacle. Click here.
Look guys I was going to moderate this, but I think is "reality check time" I have a PC (I dont have a Xbox 360) I know Oblivion for PC costs less than the 360 version and I would LOVE to play it, but I CANT you know why? Because I dont have the Cash to upgrade to a 3.0 HT CPU with a 7200 rpm 120 gb Speed Drive, ATI xt 9800 (or whatever $200+ 3d card) and 2.0 gb of RAM _recommended_ to play the game, THATS WHY! (I have a crappy 1.5, 80 gb (almost FULL), 512 ram and a 9600 ati card ) I can buy the entire xbox 360 and the game with a lot less than the cost of that upgrade! (Even though I wont.) You think you are getting the cheap side of the deal because you are getting FREE _user made_ (with several degrees of quality) mods and updates, instead of expending $2.50 on each? Puhleazeeee!! I still think a PC is far more entertaining than a console. But cheaper!? Come ON! And Xbox live is not free, YES but last time I checked WOW wasn't free either (and thats the best reason to play online on a pc anyway)
Go ahead MOD my day!
More opinions here
The PC version of this download is available now too. The cost is $1.99, which is less than the $2.50 that the Xbox 360 version costs.
t List.aspx?SubCategoryId=1
https://obliviondownloads.com/StoreCatalog_Produc
or the Coral cache link as the site seems to be getting hammered already:
http://obliviondownloads.com
I wouldn't single out XBOX Live if paying anything is the problem, as the PC version charges 1.99 for each of those mods (and more of them are available I believe). The only real complaint I could see as valid vs the XBox Live version is that it's 50 cents more expensive than the PC version. Other than that, the mod-selling phenomenon isn't restricted to Live (unless you're intent on bashing Live regardless).
A company charges extra money, for giving you an extra benifit!? The next thing you know, they will be charging people extra to give them bigger seats and better service on airplanes. The next thing you know, they will be charging people extra when they buy a car for luxuries like XM radio, or a more powerful engine! Where will it end? I am afraid it won't end until people who purchase a $2.50 combo meal at McDonalds do not get the same service or quality that they would spending $300 at a top resterant! WHEN WILL THE MADNESS END!!!!???????
People have a basic human right to have armor on their hourses in video games! It is time we nationalize the gaming industry, like we do health care, education, and all vital industries, so we make sure this kind of oppression is eliminated. The government certainly wouldn't exploit us like this!
Adam Smith (I believe) said
"Anything is WORTH what its purchaser is willing to pay for it."
So, you idiots who are saying that this would make the game disk, with thousands of skins worth thousands of $$$.
This is a great argument for some sort of functional financial Darwinism; if you're dumb enough to pay ANYTHING (yea, I know.... $2.50 isn't THAT much) for a different skin for your horse, then you deserve to be paying for it.
E = m * c^(Hammer)
I think gamers from the older school of thinking will have a major negative reaction to this kind of thing. For me (even though i'm not "old", but i've been playing games long enough to remember freeware\shareware) paying for something like this is laughable. Perhaps to a newer generation of gamers it may be something worth considering - regardless of the value per dollar. For me, paying for content outside of a full-blown expansion pack for a game is ridiculous. Stuff like that should be free for download, But as I've said for others - maybe some of a newer breed - pay-for-content that is *worth* it may not be such a bad idea.
I agree..Why can't I take the Oblivion horse armour (bought and paid for with my money) and use it on my mount in WOW? I'll tell you why, because M$ is a monopoly and those bastards are all about trying to lock me down....
This is what M$ has been moving towards for many years - subscription services. They've voiced their "concern" that people don't pay continuously several times. They've tried projects with M$ Office of that kind. Now they found their prey: Gamers.
Expect more of the same. Billy and Balmer have been having wet dreams about this for at least 10 years - pay for everything. I wouldn't be surprised if you'd have to pay for your save-game slots in a year or two.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
The Visa Crucible: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/04/25
Well, your machine will probably run it at the same quality/speed that Oblivion would display on a 360 hooked up to a normal, run-of-the-mill SDTV at 480i. Now, for everyone talking about how a computer that can run Oblivion at the equivalent of 720p would cost more than a 360, what about the TV that can display that resolution? Buying an HDTV to take full advantage of the 720p/1080i resolutions is going to immediately add close to $1000 (or more). I've got a 20" CRT monitor that can do a similar resolution and it cost $21, I doubt that you'll find a TV that can do that for less. Sure, the 360 can be hooked up to a plain VGA monitor, but why would you want to do that when you can sit back and enjoy it on a 45" LCD-TV at 1080i?
And yes, Xbox Live IS free, so long as you don't plan on doing any multiplayer gaming on it (Silver membership).
a "micro" payment to me would be cool looking horse armor for 25 cents. Still, while there may be some backlash here, I'd expect real outrage if and when they start selling more powerful items that alter competitiveness in multiplayer games.
I'm not bashing this game in any way,shape, or form(I love it)but all the same it is not without its host of issues, performance and gameplay wise(crashes and level up schema, maybe more)for Xbox users getting dirty disk errors, that is a slap in the face to them. For PC users and the CTD issues,etc. it is a slap in the face to them as well. Essentially some, if not most of these issues(for PC)can be solved with some .INI editing, but this is NOT the case for Xbox users. And then, after 2wks retail to attempt to sell horse armor for the price of 2 beers(that I would drink playing Elder Crack)in spite of all I just said, crosses the brink of utter disrespect for customers, fan boys, and even small animals that lurk about randomly.
I have no problem either for pay-to-enhance, but $2?! I mean, 25c yeah sure, but do I also get matching wagon for that armor?
Long and short of it is, if you want to charge even $5-$15 for new areas, expanded quest's, new races, new play mechanics(what does the horse need armor for if there's no horse-mounted combat?)then I'll gladly pay. Although I'm not shorting myself on a 6 pack for 2 skins and a mesh.
Took a few tries to get that link to come up, here's the text:
Pete Hines from Bethesda Software was kind enough to answer a few question and shed some light on the whole Horse Armor Spectacle.
Quote:
bapenguin: It seems there's been quite a bit of backlash from the $2.50 horse armor skins. What's your take on it?
Pete Hines: Honestly there's not a lot of info out there for us to go on. We tried to find a spot for it that fit with what other things were out there. A Theme costs 150 points. The Kameo thing was 200. We're trying to find the right spot that fits. How much is something you can use in the game worth versus a gamer picture pack, or a theme, and so on.
bapenguin: Any chance that we'll see a change in the price structure because of this? Or has it been selling well enough at the current price point that you guys are happy?
Pete Hines: Will they all be priced the same? I don't know. We're not even a day into this right now. We've got a couple more we're working on finishing and testings and will release in the next couple of weeks. We want to put some different things out there and find out what folks want and what they don't want. These are optional things, not requirements, so if you don't want to get them you don't have to.
bapenguin: What about free mods on the 360? Will we be seeing any of the popular PC mods from the user community showing up on Live?
Pete Hines: Right now we don't have plans to do any free mods. We don't ever get involved with fan-created content, on any platform, so taking some of that and releasing it on Live is not something we'd ever do.
Pete brings up a good point relating to content already out there. I completely forgot about the Kameo "winter pack" thing which was the same price. That "content" is pretty much the same as what Bethesda is offering. It's good to hear that a variety of stuff is in the works.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
On the PC, this mod costs a wallet-shattering $1.99. That seems excessive. You could buy half an Oblivion key ring with that much money!
-- dR.fuZZo
Quote: "For example, I would expect to pay $20.00 for the soon to come Perfect Dark Zero maps or new cars for Project Gotham."
So you pay $55-$60 for the original game and you think it is reasonable to pay 33% on top of that for some extra cars? I guess it is true what they say... "a fool and his money are easily parted."
You've also proven it true what Carlin (as in George) said:
"Some people are fucking stupid!"
They will not be Ashamed till we call them on their bullshit.
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Fax: (301) 926-8010
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Suport@Bethsoft.com
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
I don't really care that they're charging for this. If you think it's worth it, you buy it. If you don't, you don't buy it. Simple enough.
But I'm worried about the precedent it might be setting. What's to stop them from cutting out a lot of pieces of the game that would normally be included with the original purchase, in order to grab more money later? Want to do the thieves guild quests? That'll be another $10. Interested in the mages guild quests? $10!
It might be acceptable if the game overall was reduced in price. In fact, that would actually be pretty cool. Instead of paying $60 for the main story arc, the thieves guild, mages guild, assassination guild, and fighters guild, I could pay $30 for the main story, and $10 for each seperate quest series I was interested in. But that's not what's going to happen.
Another big concern of mine relates more to the PC version. The past Elder Scrolls were ripe for the modding with included tools. This was supported and encouraged by the devs. If they're planning on using addons as revenue though, in the future I could see them not including the tools for user created mods, and doing a 180 from encouraging their development to adding EULA provisons which PROHIBIT their creation and distribution. After all, free user mods would then cut into their profits.
I saw some of this with the Sims. You could create certain types of mods, like skins, but you couldn't add new items and gadgets. I wondered why, until I realized these new gadgets were the biggest motivation of people to buy the expansions.
Why do people keep forgetting that for the PC you only get charged for official mods? Actually, ARE there any unofficial mods for the XBox360 at all? Why is this distinction important? Just take a look at the TES forums themselves in the rather bustling dev section for Oblivion. You can post a thread and by the end of the day it will likely be on another page. Actually, I've seen a few people posting mods before they actually even bought the game (mainly minor little scripting things or even just a few even more minor variable changes.)
Actually, PC users get a serious advantage here. We get to change whatever the heck we feel like for free on just a whim (no going through online verification services, no verification and usage of points, nothing, just load up the construction kit and play around.) The only catch is we have to use a third party (free) utility to extract the data files if we want to do things like make completely new objects in the CS (which means giving up another two gigs or so to Oblivion if you delete the original data files, or a good 5.2GB or so extra if you don't delete them.) I have personally played around with this and that and tossed in quite a number of minor mods, and I'm not even CLOSE to the official "end" of the game (by end I just mean the official end of the main story quest since the game never actually ends until you uninstall it.) I've tossed in some custom armor and a couple of nice weapons (nothing major, almost just reskins of some of the stuff my character already had access to, I'm not trying to cheat, just make it a little more enjoyable.)
XBox360 users are gipped out of the ability to just fire up the CS and play around unless I'm mistaken (don't have an XBox nor Oblivion for the XBox, but, I've seen no one even hint at this.) If you ask me, due to the loss of this, they should be given free access to official mods to compensate. And I'm really dissapointed to learn that Bethesda neglected to optomize the game more before shipping though. I can forgive them a LITTLE for rushing the PC version, but, the XBox360 version is a lot harder to change. You just don't DO frequent patching on consoles (if nothing else because of the hassle to users not used to it.) Actually, I'm still upset at how poorly it runs on PC and the fact that they still have yet to even attempt any sort of patching on this even. My X850XT-PE 256MB at roughly medium, MAYBE medium-high (overall) settings will occasionally jerk up to > 60 FPS in a few rare scenes (especially at night since I have bloom enabled) but, on some rare occasions especially in a forest I have actually seen my FPS drop down to 15. This is at 1024x768 with only light FSAA and AF. Unfortunately, it's usually just before a battle that this happens, and battles get VERY tough with everything jerking around like insane (and archers/spell casters may as well just go ahead and load a savegame at such a point, luckily I'm a jack-of-all-trades type character who uses a sword as well.) Before they start charging for stupid little addons like an armor for horses (and, btw, on the rare occasions an enemy attacks your horse, it takes very little to distract said enemy from trying to kill your horse -- not to mention that horses seem to have a LOT of hp apparently) maybe they need to correct what they've already charged for?
Anyway, back more on topic of the original post, it wasn't tiny mods that made Morrowind good. It was multitudes of fan created mods. In other words, the free ones. In Morrowind you only paid for BIG official mods (eg Bloodmoon and Tribunal which were big enough that they were rightly classified as expansions) which is, IMO, the correct way to do it. Charging for putting armor on your horse is just moronic when some user will surely make a free mod (at least on PC) if it's actually worth bothering with. Actually, I've had more fun with the user created mods such as the colorful Morrowind and the ones that increased the amount of greenery and many which added higher resolution textures t
There are two potential paths this mod could have come from.
First Path - Bethesda "floated" this VERY insignificant mod out there at an arbitrarily set price to see how it fared. How many people decided that spending $2.60 was a good idea for a prettier picture for their horse will determine if they keep the same pricing structure. If this was their intent, it worked wonderfully. Everyone now knows that there is and probably will be downloadable content for Oblivion. As far as the backlash and bad publicity goes, there is no such thing as bad publicity; they got their word out and didn't even have to spend a dime on the advertising. I don't have a 360, but is there any way to tell how many people have forked over the points for this???
Second Path - Plain and simple, Bethesda screwed up; not by pricing this so high but by making this their first downloadable content mod. They would have been smarter (unless they followed the first path and intended to do this) if they had released a somewhat productive, game impacting, mod first. After that one was released send out the insignificant mods to nickle and dime those willing to pay. The price of this wasn't the problem, it was the timing. The first one always gets the public notice, especially so close to the game's release.
It will be interesting to see where this goes, I plan on buying the 360 and this game but still have too much to play on the original xbox. Besides, as we get closer to the Revolution and PS3 release, the price of both the console and the game should have dropped.
http://www.tomandemily.com
With this charge i think most people are just afraid that the games will have an "hidden" cost they will "have" to pay to enjoy their games and that the games they purchase will not be complete unless they buy it all. To this I just say: do a bit of research and read reviews before buying a game and you will know if the game you want has enough content to satisfy you. Don't judge a game by it's pretty box or by the hype. I really don't have a problem with mods that are not free and that you can use at will. If they are not to your taste or too expansive, then just don't buy it. The Kameo winter pack is a similar mod, priced the same thing and avaialable at the 360 launch day and no one said anything about it. Most people did not even buy it. Why is this horse mod any different? I actually have more of a problem with the price system of MMORPGs (buy our 50$ game... and THEN pay an extra 10$ per month just so you can play your 50$ game that is useless without a subscription.) ____________________ Also a few pointers to some posts, PC official mods are not free and XBOX Live marketplace is free of charge (no monthly subscription to Live required)
It's pretty clear (for example from leaks about proposed Windows Vista SKUs in which the "Gamer" version of Windows would be more expensive than the "Professional" version) that Microsoft has decided that Gamers are idiots with too much money to spend. I would guess that there's ample evidence to support this given the success of $1000 paired video cards to get 0.5fps more in first person shooters, "collector's editions" of games which cost $20 more and contain a figurine or cloth map, or the actual existence of Alienware.
Everything about XBox 360 is about nickle-and-dime-and-dollaring every spare penny out of gamers. Remove every possible barrier to purchasing and then fill the gamer's world with impulse purchases.
Unlike most of the collectible crap you find in a typical comic book store, this stuff doesn't even require closet space...
Um...so? I mean, really, that's all you've got. They're selling you little bits over the interweb and you're upset because you don't want to buy them? All it is is some textures and a mesh? Good deduction. And all digital songs are is some ones and zeroes with a little drm pushed in for good measure. I can't blame them for selling this. It's almost free. To the company. Somebody buys it and they make $2.50. A couple more people buy it and they were able to pay the intern that probably put it together in an afternoon. More people buy it and they pay for the bandwidth and storage space. All figured they've probably got about 20 of these to sell before they break even and I already read one post where the guy admitted to buying it so now all they need is 19 more. After that it's free money. Who wouldn't try this? It's like iTunes on a microscopic scale. So maybe the problem is that they're selling it for a game. So what? They sold new cars for PGR2 and within the week all the fastest guys had the new cars and if you wanted to run with the big boys you either beat everything on platinum or else chucked out the $5 to get the fastest car. If it didn't matter to you, then you didn't buy. Or when Halo 2 came out and then they released new levels. You had to download them to play with all the cool kids who already had them. So? If it doesn't matter to you, then don't buy it. If it does matter to you, then buy it and stop whining. You wanted it, they just provided a means for you to get it. If you're really ticked, write them a letter and tell them you're using the $2.50 you would have spent on their stuff to support a starving child in Africa instead or get a bunch of people together to buy a new computer for a poor kid (you could even put Linux on it, if you wanted!). I'm sure the CEO will loose sleep over that one.
Jester
Warning: This sig may be legally binding in England.
Not using credit cards is hardly a European thing, by the way. I, as a European, pretty much only use my (debit) card for everything except if I just happen to have cash on me and feel sympathetic to the store not having to pay dealer charges. Americans use che[que|ck]s a lot. Japanese use cash almost exclusively.
Lalala
I don't have any points to mod you up, but you've just earned a friend :-)
The real story (to me at least) is whether Bethesda will release the tools for importing custom meshes into the game. Surely releasing the 3D importer tool would place quality fan content in direct competition with Beth's commercial mods - That would be bad for business, right?
We have the Construction Kit, but this basically only lets us jig and tweak existing content, such as creating new missions, towns etc - which is all nice, but what we want is the ability to add new 3D content such as monsters, weapons, architecture or horse armour into the game world.
Without these 3D tools then we will be locked into recycling existing content. This is a fact a lot of people seem to overlook when bleating about the vast array of fan based mods people can choose from (as an alternative to Beth's plugins). To my knowledge all these mods are hacks, tweaks and fixes with existing content as a base. The real whinging therefore should be directed at the lack of a 3D import/export tool - If fans had the ability to create a horse armour alternative, Bethesda charging would be a non issue. Based on quality of Morrowinds mods (Betterheads etc) I dare say the fan mod would be the higher quality one was well.
NiM
I guess it all really comes down to a single variable to determine which is the better value for you: time.
If you have lots of free time on your hand, then by paying a monthly fee, you are getting a great value for your monthly fee and the content updates that come with it.
However for someone with very little free time on their hands, you do not get anywhere near the same value, and suddenly it becomes a waste of money to pay that much for a game you play that little. This is why games like Guild Wars are successful. The cost of the game is essentially amortized by the duration you play it. However, this is affected of course by factoring the costs of any expansions/additional content you purchase.
Can anybody recommend any actual papers on this topic? I'd love to read more on it.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
I counted 6 hours; an hour of concepting, an hour to model and an hour (two hours max) for the normalmap, an hour for the texture. Finally an hour for scripting and getting the final .esp. This adds up to 5 or six hours MAXIMUM of work.
/.'s april fools gag.
Assuming they pay their employees about $50 and hour, thats $300 total. Say they lose $0.50 on distribution, they need 200 downloads to break even; the rest is pure profit. $2.50 is VASTLY overpriced for a 'dress-my-little-ponies-up' mod. But at least they got into
-- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
But look at this from the perspective of the games companies. What you're now being provided with are long-term games that don't cost £35-£40 a time for about 24-hours worth of gameplay time - now you're looking at MMORPGs that you could feasibly be playing for years. So whereas before, you were buying a game a month from the games companies, now you're not doing that any more - THEY NEED TO MAKE THEIR MONEY SOMEHOW, PEOPLE!!!
Personally, about the only downloadable "thing" I've ever paid money for are a couple of applications that I thought were worth the money - other than that, paying for someone to move the heads on my hard disk so they write a paricular combination of "1"s and "0"s on my disk platter is not a concept I am comfortable with... Call me old fashioned but I need something shiny and plastic in my hands before the money disappears from my wallet - I don't buy downloadable music and I don't pay for downloadable game mods. But that's just me being a middle-aged old fart who happily stepped off the "fashion bus" some ten years ago with a cheery little wave as it disappeared into the sunset...
As far as I'm concerned, the major games companies are scum-sucking bottom feeders who should be first against the wall when the revolution comes - but then they've ALWAYS been scum-sucking bottom feeders, whether they churned out short-life games on CD or long-term MMORPGs on the Internet.
I don't claim to UNDERSTAND this concept of parting with money for binary bits but the same capitalist society that provided me with hours of fun in the form of a nice shiny Duke Nukem 3D CD also provides a new generation of gamers with their online entertainment.
So even though I find going to the pub & talking to real people infinitely more preferable than socialising with virtual ones, I say "If they want it, then let them get on with it."
So let's stop trying to rationlise this whole thing - we've one band of people that like online gaming and another band that don't; neither understands each others' point of view and neither ever will.
If you don't like it, you don't have to pay for it - it's that simple. Let them that do get on with it & come down the pub with me for a beer or two...
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Everything is centrally managed and controlled. It means you can't just go and run your own service but also means you don't have to rely on people who do.
And it means you pay $5/mo at least for the privelage.
But more importantly, you may not have noticed, but while Halo 2 forces you to use Xbox Live's own matchmaking system, it does end up using one of the players' own xboxes as a server, or a "host". Recently, there's been a huge amount of abuse from people who have figured out how to force Xbox Live to use them as the host, and not anyone else.
I don't know much about any other games, as I haven't played any other games on Xbox Live, but I sincerely doubt that any of them are running their own servers. And, depending on who you're playing with, they may very well play like a 486 in some guy's bedroom.
Now, PC gaming is like that, only the good servers are usually persistent, modded, and you get to choose them yourself. It could be argued that it's easier to let Xbox Live match you with players who are close to you, less latency, etc, but it's easy enough on a game like Counter-Strike -- just go for the servers with reasonably low ping, since they're sorted by ping anyway. If someone else is lagging, it's their problem.
If you find a good server, you can bookmark it, and come back to it later. It will still be on, it being a real server and not some guy's xbox. The closest thing Live has is the friends feature, which allows you to pretty much choose to play only with friends you know will be good hosts. But, this requires your friend to be on and available, whereas with most PC games, he could just set up a dedicated server and go to sleep while you play with strangers.
And, regarding the economics...
even after years of playing would add up to what the core of my current computer cost me.
Well, for me, this is part practicality, part fuzzy-feeling. The practicality is that the core of a computer system will last you a long time. The same case, motherboard, RAM, and so on, is still useful. The video card and CPU are the main upgrades you'll be getting.
You cannot upgrade a console incrementally. The graphics you see at launch will be the best, technologically, that you'll ever see on the system. I'll admit that it probably costs about the same to buy a new console every 3-5 years as to keep upgrading a computer. Still, I like having options.
Now, the warm-fuzzies. Even if I thought it was significantly cheaper to own a 360, pay for even the slightest mods and the ability to play online, I have to pay money to one of several large corporations that I don't like at all. Nintendo might be better, but they're generally behind technologically, and Sony and Microsoft are certifiably evil. At least I can say that most of the companies that produce most of the components of my Linux computer, while not the greatest people in the world, are at least not guilty of monopolization and rootkitting.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
It's not dumb at all. By making the amount different than 1 pt = 1 ct, Microsoft has made it harder to recognize the amount of money you're spending, so you're more likely to spend over your limit.
Also, as soneone else mentioned, by making the exchange less than 100, they can post amounts that look like less than they really are.
I have an Athlon XP 1600+ (1.4 ghz), 768 mgs of ram, a geforce 6200 agp (mind you this one can do pixel shader 3) but over i think the ati is a better video card, and tha game runs pretty well so far, 800x600 and getting over 10-15 fps consistently. This is with texture detail on high, but some of the other fancy effects turned down/off. This isn't really a twitch game, so getting 15-20 fps is just fine.
now if I could only find more time to play.
im.
This is a really poor move on marketing's part, as many of the user made mods already created and being distributed are far, far more useful or attractive than the barding. For example, the BT mod, which revamps the interface to display more information, provides a far bigger impact on gameplay than a reskinned horse.
Bethesda gave the PC users the same tool they used to make the game. What happens when the modders hit their stride and start putting out content that really puts Bethesda to shame? Who's going to go buy a new house add on for mages when one can grab a new set of textures far better than Oblivion's absolutely free?
I wonder if they will ever sell a game in pieces. For example you have to buy the main character, the storyline, the world its in, etc. If the game gets too difficult, you could just buy fewer bad guys.
I guess what I am saying is that hopefully game makers don't start selling critical pieces of the game as "add-ons."
So what? It's still Bethesda's doing, not Microsoft's.
(A post above disputes whether there are free mods available for the PC version, saying that Bethesda has not released the mod kit enabling users to make free ones.)
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
While I don't own a 360, i feel this is a huge non-issue. As a pc owner, and an Oblivion owner; I've paid for the game once, and as far as I'm concerned that's the end of the story. there will be tons of player mods (all free) that i can download at a later date. I pity those dumb enough to pay for mods. But i guess if you've got the cash for a Halo3-Box, then why not eh? (Oh, I forgot I can't reply without flaming on slashdot: paying for a mod for horse armor is retarded, just buy/steal another horse if yours die. Christ people.)
I wish $2.50 horse armor was the only problem with this game. I'm not going to go into details as I think a lot of TES fans would already know. Bethesda has sold out and the horse armor has merely sealed the deal.
I'm in the same boat you were in. I have an three-year-old, but perfectly respectable system. It can handle UT2004 and AoE3 just fine. So, when Oblivion was released last month, I started pricing out video cards that could run the game. An nVidia 6600 ($180) seemed to be the barest minimum. But I couldn't see shelling out that money for an AGP card, since it's being phased out. So I'd need a new motherboard ($120) and a new CPU ($200), too. But that would mean I'd have to buy DDR2 memory ($120) and so on and so forth.
I've been a PC gamer since the 80s, but only just recently realized that the whole "upgradable-ness" of PCs is a myth.
I picked up a 360 and a copy of Oblivion tonight. They're sitting on the coffee table, while I have one last moment of indecision.
where the comment ends and sig begins
Probably none, or atleast very slim.
Also I wouldn't like the fact that it feels like you are paying for a non finished product and then pay even more to get that you should have had, even if I do understand that the micropayments are supposed to cover more stuff which shouldn't have been there if noone used them.
Atleast blizzard added more maps for free to Warcraft III, the extra heroes and units and new solo missions where sold as an extension (which imho is ok since I knew I didn't had to pay even more later.)
I'm not a fan of the pay per month either since I don't do a lot of gaming.
Personally I see things exactly the opposite.
I don't care if something like this costs money, because it doesn't affect the play of the game. Your horse looks a little more interesting, someone has taken the time to add an "artistic touch" and maybe some other people are willing to pay extra for the look. That's terrific, I'd love to see a small artist-centric industry open up around independent contributors making money from customizations such as this.
But what bothers me is when things that do affect the play of the game cost extra money. Perhaps in a single-player game less so, I don't see it as much different than entering cheat codes or hex editing savegame files. However someone above pointed out that EA released add-on packs to Battlefield 2 which gave players who spent more money better weapons and equipment in an online multiplayer game. "Cheating" on a single player experience doesn't intefere with anyone else's enjoyment, but what happens when you can buy x-ray goggles that let you see through walls or around corners? $20 for wall hacks anyone?
Really, at the end of the day, I don't want to end up paying for a game, then getting nickle-and-dimed to receive the "full" product.
Your Brain + EEG + LEGO Robots = Brainstorms
I understand the basic differences. But what I don't get is exactly how is the GW "pay as you go" fee's different from a monthly fee? The way I see it, either way they get the money out of you, especially if you play it quite often. I suppose it's kind of like that $.99 mark (like $29.99), but then again I always thought that was silly. Why not just make it $30 and be done with it? It's a psychological thing.
I bought Guild Wars when it was released and have enjoyed playing it ever since. Funny thing is I haven't paid a dollar more than what I paid to take it home. A lot of my friends play WOW and justify paying their monthly fee by repeating the same old excuses such as, "We get new content all the time" or "It improves the quality of the servers so I don't get lagged". Arenanet seems to be supplying me new content fairly regularly and I never experience any lag. Seems to me like Arenanet is just being halfway decent to its customers and it's because of this that I will more than likely purchase the upcoming expansion which incidentally is not required for me to continue enjoying this game.
I believe the reason the horse armor issue has pissed people off is because this is exactly the kind of content that older gamers have traditionally been given in patches and free modules or plug-ins. Now they want to charge us for it.
I can't understand the mentality of people who support subscription models or would pay for trivial content that should really be free. If this keeps up we'll have to pay for patches. Companies like Blizzard and Bethesda can only milk our wallets as long as we let them.
If you got XBox version, you got what you asked for. But that's not the only problem with Oblivion.
A long list of gripes about Oblivion, and growing.
Dumbed down.
Very linear quests.
Terrible UI
Frustrating "levelled monsters/merchants/loot" system
Arcade minigames instead of use of stats
Horrible voice acting
Crashes
The list is longer than that...
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
I plan to buy every mod just because it adds extra things to the game
Why won't you get PC version then? There will be THOUSANDS of fan-made mods, FOR FREE.
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
In the real life wait another week or two for a fan-made horse armour mod for free.
Think outside the box. Outside the X box.
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
This is the real issue. There's a good chance Bethesda is holding out on the mod community to make a quick buck.
.. I wonder just how much cheaper it'll work out to buy the Game of the Year edition with all these extras built in than it is buying them as they are released?
I've been reading the "backlash" over this since it hit and I think it's rather funny how some people are acting over this.
The most common things I've seen in the forum threads is "200 points is too much! 100 would be better!" or "It needs to be free like PC Mods"
Would you all really be happy if the content was $1.25 rather than $2.50? Is that really so much more money? Would you all go pay the 100 points then? Or would all the complaining be for nothing and renewed cries of "It needs to be free!" be posted?
No noone is forcing you to throw down your 200 points for "armor" you may or may not want. Yea content is going to cost money on the 360...content cost money on the old xbox. Before I hear about "the old days" I want to remind people that in "the old days" the only way to get new content in a game on consoles was to........oh yea it didnt happen.
People, it's the way things work. If you don't want it, don't buy it. But don't be surpized when people do buy it, because they will.
just my 2 coppers on the situation
But what I don't get is exactly how is the GW "pay as you go" fee's different from a monthly fee?
What the hell are you talking about?
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
I counted 6 hours; an hour of concepting, an hour to model and an hour (two hours max) for the normalmap, an hour for the texture.
Fuck, you're fast! I think you're breaking a record there.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
It's not about free vs non-free mods.
The barding (lol pony armour) is one thing, but apparantly (I've got the XBOX version & the site is down) there is another mod available on the PC download site for the orrey(spelling?) in the mage university. In the actual game there is a door in the university & it says you need a special key (or something) to open it, and you can't pick the lock. For $$$ you can download the mod that enables the content to get access to this.
Clearly this content was removed from the game prior to release with the intent to sell it seperately afterwards. It's one thing to remove content to meet a release date, its another thing to sell it for additional cost after release.
My impression is that I paid $100 for a game but only got 80% of the content. If I want the rest of it I have to pay extra. So naturally I feel a little ripped off.
Maybe the cost of next-gen content is just too high, and studios have to charge $150 for a game in order to make a reasonable profit. Customers are highly unlikely to pay that but you might be able to sell them 2/3 of a game for $100 & the other 1/3 broken down into smaller pieces over a year for a total of $50.
I've experiments to run, there is research to be done on the people who are still alive.
Indeed. My main argument against supporting these patches is that the modding community, that is more than eager to create great new content free of charge, just for their love of the game, will not be supplied with adequate tools (such as an extractor) to create new content, because it could rival those Bethesda puts forth.
Oblivion is such a great game, I am sure they will make enough money from it alone for a long time - why introduce a scam like this that just alienates most people - at least apart from those that are misled into believing this will 'support' the company that produced their beloved game. Real support will stem from the game sales themselves (and its 'real' expansions) and even more from the people creating mods that enhance the game and make it even more popular - just look at what the Counter Strike mod did to Half-Life.
And when you gaze long enough into the code, the code will also gaze into you.
It's not pay as you go. You buy a key once, download (or if you bought the box, install from CD) the client, and then you play away for however long you want.
The only time you have to pay more is if you choose to buy new content in the form of new chapters. For example, the first chapter is called "Prophecies Campaign". At the end of this month, people who have played that one to death can buy a new chapter called "Factions" if they want.
Basically, rather than keep billing you for a constant online service, they're banking on the idea that if they continually provide a strong product line, you'll become brand loyal and be willing to keep buying new games as they come out (which can be used as expansions if you already bought the previous games).
Frankly, I think it's an excellent approach. I've been playing for nearly two months now and I'm nowhere near finished with the existing campaign, and I'm contstantly finding new ways to enjoy the existing environment. When that's done, I can move on to the next chapter with the expectation that it's going to be as equally rewarding. If it meets expectations, I'll then go on to the next chapter when it's done in 6-12 months. I haven't even scratched the surface of the various PvP game types yet.
Not since the days of Black Isle have I found games that I think have as much value in them as Guild Wars.
From now on, I buy only Intel.
MS sold track packs and car add ons for PGR2 over Live. And that was before their micropayment push. You don't think they'll do the same for PGR3 now that they are big on this stuff?
I'll grant you, it's possible they won't offer anything, but I think it's quite likely they will.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
RAM: DDR 400 512MB $40 used. Will be handy not just for the game.
GForce 6600LE: $100 new. Used: about half of that.
First person melee parts, yeah, great with a controller instead of mouse. Any reasons why you start at -1?
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
Last I checked I was an American citizen who does not own a credit card. Its really not all that uncommon either. Don't believe everything you see on TV.
Am I the only one who does this? I know that gamers as a whole probably aren't known for their fiscal discipline and their ability to delay gratification. But, if you're not trying to buy the latest-greatest hardware and games, you can still satisfy the PC gaming urge at significant discounts. That tricked out state of the art system that costs $1200 right now? 6 months to a year from now you can buy the same system (or near equivalent) for like $500-$800. It'll be 'obsolete' by then, but will still play most of the games you'd ever want to play.
Same goes for games - that game that costs $50-60 will be in the bin for $20 or less in 3-6 months.
The down side (and for me and other people, this is somewhat of an upside really) to this is that to some extent you miss out on the 'cultural/social' aspects of the game - friends who are playing it now may have moved on to something else, most likely, by the time I play it. But, the upside is, for example, with multiplayer games, most of the rude, obnoxious, arrogant morons have already moved on to other things by the time I play an online game, and the people that are still playing are usually pretty cool.
With games like Morrowind, Oblivion, etc, by the time I play the game there's usually a lot of helpful fansites with guides, mods, etc where I can get the cool stuff that people have just finished, often times, developing, 3 to 6 months later (it takes time to develop maps, models, and other mods).
By just delaying for 3-6 months, you can often save yourself about %50 - not a shabby discount, and enough to make gaming much more affordable (though still a bit of an expensive hobby).
Honestly, I bought my current computer in, err, about 2001 I think, maybe 2000. It's an Athlon 900Mhz (overclocked to 1Ghz). I spent a little money over the years upgrading the graphics card and memory. It's starting to get long in the tooth at this point, but has had surprising longevity. Having to upgrade your computer "Every 6 months" (as some posters mentioned) is a bit of overkill. Really every 2 years is probably more than sufficient (especially if you are buying the games from 3-6 months ago).