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French PM Unreceptive To RMS
An anonymous reader writes "Six month after the publication of very bad amendments to French DRM law proposal, Richard Stallman has been pushed back by the chief of security team of French Prime minister.
On Friday 9th of June 2006 at 3.30pm, Richard Stallman, president of Free Software Foundation, led a delegation composed by Frédéric Couchet (Free Software Foundation France) and Christophe Espern (EUCD.INFO initiative) to meet the French Prime minister in order to talk about the French DRM law proposal and to deliver the EUCD.INFO petition signed by more than 165,000 French residents. Richard Stallman and his friends were pushed back by the chief of security team. "
Word of Advice: DO NOT try this in your home country.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
What happened, they were all out of white flags?
8am - Wakes up outside the Center for Marxist Education in Cambridge as another bum shits on him. Thinks this sucks and that he would like an apartment, but can't find a landlord with an apartment that is free as in speech and beer. Falls back asleep.
9am - Wakes up again.
9:15am - Goes to men's room at MIT to wash shit off. Gives himself sponge bath. Shit comes off (somewhat), but he really isn't clean since he refuses to take a shower.
9:45am - Decides to shave 2 inches off beard after someone in MIT restroom mistakes him for Osama Bin Laden.
10am - Goes to McDonalds for breakfast. Gets into arguement with workers behind counter after they refuse to give him a free as in speech and beer breakfast. Also gets into arguement with the manager about why McDonalds should be called GNU/McDonalds due to the fact that he eats there.
11:30am - After being thrown out of McDonalds since the staff doesn't want a DGH deterring lunch rush, RMS goes to the McDonalds' dumpster to find food. Eats a "GNU/Quarter Pounder" and "GNU/fries" covered with "GNU/mold". He consideres the food better since it is free as in speech and beer.
12:30am - Goes back to MIT to recruit MIT students into writing free software. RMS is unable to enter anyone's office since everyone has placed spider plants in their offices. (He has a phobia a spider plants.)
1pm - RMS protests GWB (George W. Bush) for not being GNU/GWB and believing in copyrights. Wanders out of Cambridge and into Waltham. Police find RMS and arrest him for violating the ordinance that says he is not allowed to enter Waltham. (All towns surrounding Cambridge have this ordinace.) Police beat him and deport him back to Cambridge.
3pm - Goes back to MIT and creates a plan for dealing with overpopulation by killing everyone who uses non-free software. Writes code into next version of emacs to implement that feature
5pm - Tries to read email. RMS finds out he is dangerously over quota due to an email from Doctress Neutopia. This email is 65 megabytes of nothing but ASCII text. It is similar to an email he gets everyday since 1995 when he and Docress Neutopia had a brief fling. The email says that she would like to have a relationship with him, but he needs to accept her lovoution, stop his polygamous goat fucking and clean off the hair, dirt, food, and feces off his keyboard. RMS responds with a 9 megabyte email (of nothing but text) explaining that he could only consider getting into a relationship with her if she changed her name to GNU/Doctress Neutopia.
5:30pm - Reads rest of his email. His email is bombarded with trolls and goatse. RMS is turned on by the goatse and beats off to it.
6pm - Still beating off to goatse
7pm - Still beating off to goatse
8pm - Still beating off to goatse
9pm - Breaks into MIT vending machine to have a free as in speech and beer snack.
10pm - Breaks into a liquor store for free as in speech and free as in beer beer. Gets drunk.
10:15pm - Walks around drunk yelling, "Use free software!!!!", "It's GNU/Linux you capitalist pigs!!!!" and "I am a goat fucker!!!!".
11:45pm - Collapses in front of the Center for Marxist Education. Goes to sleep.
You mean knocked back, right? I expect that the choice of words was by a French person, but Hemos, isn't it your job to fix things like this? Just because the original article uses bad English, it doesn't mean Slashdot has to.
Is this really a news story? Someone without an appointment tries to seek a personal audience with a world leader and is denied? That's not anti-DRM, it's just common sense.
You show up at a major countries statehouse and demand entry and some security guard tells you to get an appointment, no big surprises here.
One look at RMS and they thought he was a terrorist!
The photos were great, but I had trouble downloading the license to read the DRM'd text.
7h3$3 4r3n'7 7h3 Ðr01Ð$ ¥0 4r3 £00|{1n9 f0r. M0v3 4£0n9. --OB1
An uninvited guest gently removed from the vicinity of a major politician by security forces?
Colour me shocked.
The delegation led by Richard Stallman was kindly but firmly pushed back by the chief of security team of French Prime minister saying : the decision not to receive Richard Stallman was mature considered .
In the PCInpact article Frédéric Couchet, from FSF France, evokes the difference in treatment between the reception of Bill Gates as a Head of State by the president of the Republic and that of Richard Stallman by the chief of the security team of Matignon . Richard Stallman believes to have the explanation: Gates is the emperor, we are only citizens , he said. - duh. Earth to RMS: some French dude, who happens to be a PM of France doesn't HAVE to listen to you and choses not to listen to you, but if you offer money he may reconsider, are you surprised?
(note: I am not saying BG offered money, I am saying BG is seen as someone, who can bring monetary advantages to a country.)
You can't handle the truth.
You would think the French and RMS would get along better what with both of them having so much in common. The odor, the excessive body hair, the truly MASSIVE egos, the inability to compromise - oh, wait, there's the problem.
with a head of state. This was simply a stunt to gain exposure. I am all for supporting the proliferation of free software and the free software movement, but this will only marginalize the cause yet once again at the hands of RMS.
If we don't fight for ourselves no one will.
You don't just come up to the President of France / USA / anywhere and start chatting about open sores. If ANYONE did that to chat about ANYTHING they would be pushed back, it's called basic security precautions. Kudos to the French security team for being on the ball.
So Richard Stallman approached the French Prime Minister's delegation, and tried to force their way though to have a private word with him about DRM laws? ...
... That just isn't normal behaviour.
Even outside of politics that isn't acceptable behaviour. How would you feel if you ran a business and as you left the office the CEO of another company was trying to convince you to sell your shares to him, following you about and such?
Normal people make a meeting... Or if failing that they write the grievance down and hand deliver it. They don't make a run at the guy, and try and get it words and then act like a victim when it doesn't work.
Damn right the security pushed him back... He should have been asked to leave if he acts like that.
Wow that petition is long.
"linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
He looks like a haggard bum next to the two other guys. At least he could have worn a suit!
but he is the last person that should be representing the free software community to politicians. You need a clean cut person in a suit who is familiar with the politics of that nation. Why do think people hire lobbyists instead of appealing to politicians directly?
Disgruntled man stopped by security when he barged his way to French parliment and demanded to see a top MP! This is really a piece of non-news. Just because he's got a petition doesn't give him the right to see them. If he really wanted action to take place he'd organise a series of protests that can't just be turned away.
Doesn't the French PM know who Richard Stallman is? Oh, he does...
make the PM an offer he can't refuse, like blowing up the Eiffel Tower. The way RMS looks, I think they would have taken him more seriously then.
You can't handle the truth.
Then the problem may be that he was denied an appointment in the first place don't you think ?
For they are not just "someone" but 3 individuals quite involved into this DRM saga, thus having points and a petition to be discussed.
Bill Gates is received with all the honors by the President and RMS & Co can't even reach the prime minister or even some random official guy ?
It's a news story only because RMS was "pushed" back instead of tear gassed and beaten as many would expect with all the rioting going on over various government proposals. I guess irrationality is returnign to French politics now.
A letter was send 15 days before, and no one answered.
When they get there, an official said "the decision of not meeting with RMS had been maturely considered".
Im confused by this story. Firstly If someone turns up to see the Prime minister / President / Head Honcho of any country (or most organisations) without an invitation or appointment they are likely to be told "thanks, but no thanks". I don't really think that the "pushed away" part of this article, which appears to be the focus has any bearing on anything at all. (FTA: The delegation led by Richard Stallman was kindly but firmly pushed back by the chief of security team of French Prime minister saying : the decision not to receive Richard Stallman was mature considered .)
The French government seem to be split on issues relating to open source (Software patents and DRM etc.) but do seem to be discussing it in public and with some authority, putting France somewhere at the top of the list of countries doing something about the issues at hand. We don't know which way it will swing, but at least we know it will be discussed first. Oh and congratulations to the 165,000 French People and 1000 Organisations who signed the EUCD.INFO petition, your doing something and this story should have focused on you, not on getting the most interesting headline.
So their complaint is that the French PM's office wouldn't arrange a meeting with them, so they showed up at the door with a petition? And then they go on to try contrasting it with how the world's richest man (Gates) was received by the PM's office?
Give me a freakin' break.
Although Stallman has done a lot for free software, government officials probably don't know nor care who he is. I'm sure the French PM's schedule is CRAZY, and like any head of state they would NEVER allow a walk-in visitor. The behavior of the PM's office is predictable, and yet they decided to go anyway instead of finding some better method of getting their petition to the PM.
Stallman should focus on actually trying to improve the state of things instead of weak publicity stunts like this. He's an attention whore, plain and simple.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. --Winston Churchill
Seriously if he thought this was a good way to protest it wasn't. Near certain to backfire and potentially even dangerous.
On Friday 9th of June 2006 at 3.30pm, Richard Stallman led a delegation composed by Frédéric Couchet (Free Software Foundation France) and Christophe Espern (EUCD.INFO initiative) to meet the French Prime minister in order to talk about the French DRM law proposal. Richard Stallman and his friends were pushed back by the chief of security team.
...or we will taunt you a second time!
GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
Maybe his history of antics have worked against him and now is listed under the "cooks" category.
Funny , thats just what happened to me before I even got close to the end of this lame excuse for "humour" which the poster has obviously been saving for a rainy day to cut and paste. Sad.
...because certainly the point of the original post wasn't made to evoke a response or anything...
How does this get moderated Troll? It is common sense. If I walked up to the Governor in my state without an appointment and started trying to convince him to use (GNU)Linux on every state computer, I assume that I'd get stopped too. Does the submitter think that RMS should be getting special treatment?
Qualitas edurus commercium, nullus penitus net rimor, nullus deus beneficium
Even the French have standards about bathing, even as low as they are; I'd force him out too if I had to smell him. Perhaps RMS should take a shower for once, before he tries this again?
I am an American, and I have to say to mr. Stallman:
Please wear a suit when trying to meet with foreign dignitaries.
And at least wear your hair back and trim your beard a little. You look like a hippy slob, and that was how you were received.
You do free software a disservice by appearing like don't you give a crap. You expect them to take you seriously looking like you don't take them seriously?
meh
Why does anyone continue to give Stallman any credibility? A publicit stunt for sure, but in the end could very well reflect negatively on the community as a whole.
Not only that, but if you are going to attempt to barge in for an unscheduled appointment, at least dress appropriately! I mean, you're going to meet the Prime Minister, don't you think a tie is in order? Or at least a step up from khakis and a polo shirt? These guys look more like college kids than the heads of political organizations. I wouldn't take them seriously either.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
RMS might do better if her were to dress and groom better. The hippy programmer thing just doesn't fly with most politicians. Aside from not having an appointment he just looked like a slob that no politician, expecially a French one, would ever want to be photographed with. If he had groomed he might have gotten someone to LOOK at his petition rather than just get turned away.
I'll bet that Gates didn't go to see the French president wearing his normal ugly blue shirt that looks like he's been wearing it for the past week and a half. I still wouldn't want to be photographed with him, though.
Perhaps RMS should get an electronic copy. I guess he's just not all that technologically literate though.
As a sign language interpreter in Jueneau, AK I once met the governor (Tony Knowles), and he gave us (two teachers, me, and the deaf child) a personal tour of the governors office. Alaska is such a cool place.
meh
You may not agree with Stallman's tactics, but the message this sends is clear: The people passing today's draconian intellectual property laws they are NOT representing the general public -- they are representing coporate interests.
Bill Gates is a citizen of the US, just like Stallman. Gates and Stallman take opposing viewpoints on the particular issue, and both are well known and intelligent individuals with strong arguments. However, only Gates was allowed to talk to the PM.
Stallman tried to get an audience with the PM, but was refused. It was only after the refusal that he tried to just "barge in", and there is *nothing wrong with this*. This kind of thing has happened throughout history -- a corrupt goverment has favored a certain group of people, and the unfavored group resorts to any tactics necessary to get themesleves heard.
Those of you who are criticizing Stallman, saying thing like "duh, I could have told you this would fail"... You're totally missing the point. Stallman also knew it would fail. Why else would he have a cameraman on hand ready to document the event. He's making a point, and it seems like a lot of people are missing it.
In a very real sense, Stallman represents the little guy, and Gates represents the corporate interests. In a very real sense, the goverments are NOT listening to the people. When the governments are only hearing one side of the story on DRM/copyright, it should be obvious that the laws are going to be heavily biased. And *this* is what is bad. Nobody from the opposite end of the spectrum is being listened to, and we are LOSING OUR RIGHTS.
Stallman is out there putting his ass on the line to show people this, and hopefully reach a larger audience than the few geeks on Slashdot who already know how bad everything has gotten. Before you get too critical of his methods, ask yourself what *you* have done to help turn the tide. Because sitting on your ass complaining about the shutdown of The Pirate Bay isn't accomplishing a damn thing.
... having RMS after you mustn't be a nice experience! He is the real victim of this. :P
the story was about a poorly designed French Power Module not working with alternating current
Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
So basically the guy with lots of money gets a meeting, but the guy who represents 165,000 people does not?
What a remarkably clear-cut demonstration that democracy is dead and plutocracy has taken its place.
It's called using the right channels.
You don't simply walk up and demand an audience.
You write to the necessary folks, follow the protocol and you'd probably be assigned a time if they felt that the time was worth it, and if it would have some benefit.
I use things originally written by Mr. Stallman about every day---notably gcc and gdb. It takes a special kind of brilliance to write a debugger---one that I certainly will never have---and I admire him for doing such great and valuable work.
His comparative advantage, and his most successful means of bringing people to the Free Software movement, is in writing good code. Too bad he doesn't do that anymore.
This stunt was bound to fail on a diplomatic level, and probably succeeded in it it's real purpose: RMS self-agrandizement.
France is a culture of peasants. The government is Paternalistic to the extreme. The citizenry accepts that the government will regulate their lives, and attempts at direct independence are futile. This is why France is the laughingstock of Europe, and that is why the French are so grouchy. Pity them and ignore them. Economics will make believers out of them in time.
Mike
"The mind works quicker than you think!"
Since there were so little signatures, this could mean three things: a) there's and evil scheme to supress free speech and petition signing, b) people are not well educated on the subject or c) people simply don't agree with the petition. Choose one.
-- Sig down
here. Stallman spoke to the security guards on the street outside the office, was denied entry, then unrolled the (very long) petition of concerned citizens in the gutter as a symbolic gesture. He didn't rant and rave and try and push his way into some gilded office.
The French have a great reputation as food lovers, and should be only too happy to receive a foreign cook who is interested in their cuisine.
the layman's guide to computer science
Then the problem may be that he was denied an appointment in the first place don't you think ?
Umm... No. I fully support anyone who chooses not to meet with RMS, for whatever reason they choose.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I would have to agree if he just walked there as such.
But as somebody already pointed out they'd written to the French minister's office 15 days beforehand that they didn't even bother to answer to.
When they showed there, they got told by an official that "the decision of not meeting with RMS had been maturely considered".
Right channels issue ? Don't think so..
You must have missed the part in the article where they said they did write to the necessary folks, and got ignored.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Hell... I wouldn't let him in to see ME, even if I knew who he was!
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm all for the "relaxed" dress code and all, but if I'm meeting a new client, I'll sure as hell put on the monkey suit and try and look respectable.
NEVER MIND if I were to try and see a world leader, without an appointment.
Did he seriously expect to actually meet the guy?
For real?
I think someone's losing touch with reality a bit...
$0.02 (CDN)
And as we all know, the French certainly hate their cooks. What with their pans and ovens and ingredients! The nerve!
I'll be honest, we're throwing science against the wall to see what sticks. -Cave Johnson
I'd say it was because of RMS' bodily odor, but then I remembered that this was France we're talking about.
Wow. Does this man know anything about the real world? Has he ever been to Europe? To France? Out of his bedroom? He could have at least worn a suit.
I love how this gives free software such a professional image. Really, this is a giant step forward.
What a stupid... hippie.
a basketball under his shirt :P
his trip to france was obviously tax deductible.
Is this really a news story? Someone without an appointment tries to seek a personal audience with a world leader and is denied? That's not anti-DRM, it's just common sense.
Zealotry and common sense are not mutually exclusive, though they often do not seem to coexist.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
... not to receive RMS.. and not a question of planning, or appointment of whatever... Matignon was warned for a few weeks of his coming, and could have make him be received by any small office-counselor, as humiliating as it would have been, some "chargé de mission" or whatever. but instead decided to leave him 100m away from the place. That's exacly how was treated the free software position about DRM, internet-filtering dispositions, articles forcing DRM into any software, and so many other atrocities commited into the DADVSI law in the name of "protecting the authors". ... well the authors of Free Software were just unheard.
Here's a little side note. When attempting to meet heads of state, you might want to dress the part of someone who's serious.
And if the medium is RMS, I wouldn't want to hear the message.
Either look the part, or get someone who does to go in your place.
is all i can see by the photos
embarassing that OpenSource communities are ok with this type of person trying represent anything (even himself) i wouldnt let this man into a bar let alone govermental buildings
if RMS doesnt want to change his appearance (like losing weight and looking respectable) thats fine, just dont try and mix with people that do, visual impressions are everything (ask any Brand(TM) manager)
shame on him and shame on the OSS community who he says he represents
he just put your cause back by a long way
The French expect their politicans to be crooks but they expect them to be 'un mec' - to give the impression that they behave just like us despite having gone to ENA. (c'est un vieil escroc mais c'est notre escroc a nous, as a taxi driver said to me once.) Perhaps the security guard here was confused between his role as soother of nutters ("Of course the Minister will read your petition") and his role of protecting politicians from rude and vulgar Americans. You just can't get the quality of security guards these days.
Pining for the fjords
Fifteen whole days? Come on. I can't get a mail in rebate processed that fast, never mind an application to meet with the head of state of a major nation.
Let's be a bit realistic, shall we?
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
You write again, you wait and find other ways to convince them.
Walking straight, for all it is, would definitely be the wrong way to go about it.
For the love of Pete... This has to be the most damaging form of protest ever. Folks! Wake up! This is counter-productive! France is voting for a new president and a new parliament next year. Why don't you go and make your case to Segolene Royal and Nicolas Sarkozi? Why aren't you showing your petition to your MP? What are you trying to achieve by meeting a prime minister who has less than a year in office, and has 30% approval rate? You may think that there is nothing to life other than being anti-DRM and pro-OSS, but over 10% of the French population is unemployed, the suburbs were burning last fall and student protests were paralyzing the country a couple months ago. Have a bit of perspective here. The dude has to prioritize. He knows he ain't staying, and pissing you off is probably an acceptable trade-off to him building his legacy with the population at large. So please, please, please stop the whining and come back when you have a better game plan. Actions as such are your cause.
For they are not just "someone" but 3 individuals quite involved into this DRM saga, thus having points and a petition to be discussed.
Jeez, come on. Most of the geek community knows who RMS is, but in world leader terms, he is NOBODY. He has very little influence. Linus Torvalds has ten times the influence, and even he isn't that important in the big picture.
Bill Gates is received with all the honors by the President and RMS & Co can't even reach the prime minister or even some random official guy ?
Gee, I wonder why? Bill Gates makes the software that a large percentage of the world uses. He has the biggest charitable foundation in history. Even if you discount software, he is one of the most influential people in the world.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Bill Gates can 1) put backdoors into the French version of windows for the benefit of the French government/security services. 2) give the French security services the keys to backdoors in other versions of windows. 3) he can also switch research funding out of France resulting in loss of jobs and tax revenue. 4) conversely, he can switch research funding into France resulting in jobs and tax revenue. 5) controls an enormous "slush" fund which can be used to allow windows to win contracts against Linux when they come up for bidding
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
>So basically the guy with lots of money gets a meeting, but the guy who represents 165,000 people does not?
Yes. It may sound strange to you but compared to Gates' wealth, 165000 people are nothing at all. I doubt 1'650'000 would count as well. Any industry of Microsoft's size means to the governments of the world far more than a sizeable part of their population, because hear hear, it's the economy that counts, not your insignificant petty life.
>What a remarkably clear-cut demonstration that democracy is dead and plutocracy has taken its place.
Yes again. How many demonstration do you still need to understand? Money talks loud and clear and is obeyed. People are a dime per dozen. Get over it.
At first glance I mis-read the headline as "French PM unreceptive to PMS" and my first thought was he must not get along well with his wife. *chuckle*
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
The head of state would be Jacques Chirac http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_France.
They didn't even bother asking that high, any official would have been good enough I guess.
I'm not a RMS fanboy, but frankly it's a deliberate "F*ck off" from the French government...
i think they thought that just say the name "Richard Stallman and his organization FSF", all the doors will just open wide. why don't they just pick a number and wait in line.
I know it's a common joke amongst Americans to make fun of the French, but that's likely just because most Americans have very little, if any, understanding of French history.
Simply put, the French know far more about war than America. Take World War I, for example. France sustained over 1400000 dead citizens (both military and civilian). The US, on the other hand, suffered a mere 126000 or so. France suffered over ten times as many dead, for those of you who aren't good at math. Of course, that doesn't consider the utter physical destruction much of their country faced. Even today you can still see crater holes dug by shells.
France also suffered more dead in WWII (approx. 560000). The US suffered about 418000 dead, but many of those deaths were in the Pacific theatre, and thus had nothing to do with France, let alone Europe.
Of course, those were just the conflicts of the 20th century. We could go on forever about their colonial warfare. America today is only just beginning to truly explore that realm, with their adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan. At least the French were somewhat successful in their colonial affairs.
Most Americans don't even know of all the help that the French offered the Americans during the War of Independence. Many of the rednecks in places like Louisiana, Oklahoma, parts of Texas, and Mississippi wouldn't even be alive today were it not for their French ancestors.
Going back even further, France is no stranger to the wars and conflicts between feuding lords and principalities.
When one who understands history hears Americans rally on about "Freedom fries" and how the French as supposedly "surrender monkeys", such an individual always lets out a hearty laugh. Part of it is directed at the sheer ignorance and stupidity of the American making such statements, with the rest going towards the fact that America has never known real war, while the French have many times over. To accuse them of being weak is the sort of statement only a complete moron could make.
Whoops! Head of Government, not head of state. Those crazy parliamentary democracies. : )
I'm not one to subscribe to stereotypes, but I'm pretty sure this is not the first time somebody French has been impolite. There is no story here.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
So from my understanding of the French political process, the next step is to barricade all major French highways with piles of computers running Windows, right?
"Gee, I wonder why? Bill Gates makes the software that a large percentage of the world uses."
And GNU/the FSF does not? I wonder when Google switched to Windows XP.
The schedule would have been cleared to welcome their new Teutonic overlords!
Just a point of information: the French Prime Minister (Dominique de Villepin) is not a head of state. That position is reserved for the President (Jacques Chirac).
It takes cajoling and persistence just to contact the French consulate and get a visa. 15 whole days is not enough for a top-echelon government official to even get to your e-mail. It really isn't.
Le français vous intéresse?
Well, if you're at the high end executive level of a major corporation, you can get in just to any of them faster than that.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
Bonjourr-r-r-r, you cheese-eating surrender-monkey.
"The FSF France wrote to the French Prime minister two weeks ago so that he might receive Richard Stallman, founding president of the Free Software Foundation, before making any decision on the DADVSI bill. Richard Stallman was to be present in Paris at the beginning of June 2006 for various public actions against DRM and the DADVSI bill. The FSF France received no answer (neither negative nor positive) from Prime Minister."
RMS shows unannounced at the Presidential retreat and Navy SEALS are sent to China to spring Jack Bauer from captivity in time to shut him up!
...is that you???;o)
1. No sig. 2. ???? 3. Profit!!!
-- Man that WAS A HUGE step up for RMS, I half expected an old GNU T-Shirt with pit stains :-). Iv had dialog with him before , and well he has a well deserved reputation for being .. well radical in his views. Now that and if Ol, Billy boy gave the prime minister a selective sampling of his NNTP posts attached to that check for 8 billion. well there ya go... a new monopoly is born.
:)
Richard Corsale someone please visit my blog
Exactly is wrong with "hippy slobs"? What makes you think that you can tell whether or not someone gives a crap by looking at them?
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
Actually IKEA's tax evasion makes them the biggest charitable foundation. Though I would still buy shoddy furniture before I run Windows.
Letters were sent a few days ago to tell the day and hour of his coming
The arrogance of that is simply astounding. "I shall arrive, you shall se me." Pardon? It doesn't help that he insists on showing up looking like Robbie Coltrane on holiday and certainly not combined with that downright papal attitude. Newsflash, Richard, the rest of the world DOES expect to be treated with respect and that includes making appointments--in reasonable time--and showing up properly attired. Oh yes, you're an eccentric genius...yeah, and he's the Prime Minister of France. Wear a fucking suit and comb your goddamned hair, you lazy slob.
And GNU/the FSF does not? I wonder when Google switched to Windows XP.
GNU's software is mostly a copy of Unix tools. Useful, yes, but not particularly influential. The GPL is the closest thing to influence that RMS commands, but even that in the Great Scheme of Things is not that important on the world stage.
On the other hand, Microsoft influences industries a hell of a lot more than GNU/FSF. I'll even throw in Apple as an influencer (though, they influence much, much less than the average Apple zealot thinks), even though Apple is peanuts on the world stage, too.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
I think they should try again. Surely just an oversight.
agreed. if this were simply a professional affair - everyday business - it would be considered unprofessional. but in this case the guy might have been quite insulted!
The article must have missed the part that hundreds of people write to the necessary folks, and get ignored because hundreds of people want to meet the PM over their little issue.
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
Bill Gates is recieved with honor because he's a self made billionaire who's company and products have changed the world. Richard M. Stallman looks as if he's never seen a razor or a bath in his life. Is it really so hard to understand why the guy isn't give the due you think he deserves?
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
>>Has he ever been to Europe?
>Probably more often then you.
I live there and it happens that nowhere in Europe you will ever meet a state functionary (let alone the Prime Minister) without an appointment and in your street clothes. You will wear a suit. Period. You will follow protocol. Period.
And yes, LOOKING professional is more important than BEING professional if you ever care to get a job. This is not America: t-shirt and jeans get you nowhere.
Seriously, the khakis and polo shirt may partially balance off the boxcar hobo facial hair for your normal everyday operations, but it doesn't show a proper degree of respect for the person you're trying to meet who happens to be an elected official. Remember the hooplah about the college girls' soccer team who met the President in nice sun dresses and flip-flops? Just a hint: you don't half look as good as those girls -- maybe less. Work harder at your appearance. They did you a favor by not letting you in the door. You'd have embarrassed yourself and us looking like that.
When you are a leader, delegate, or some other form of representative, you need to give the proper impression of the people you are representing. It may well be that F/OSS people are old hippies with too much facial hair and a beer gut, but you do them a grave disservice to paint them that way. By showing up with that list of 165,000 people, you have appointed yourself their representative, and you painted them with a bad brush from first glance. You need to be their best face. The impression of you is the impression of them.
You want respect (and that's what this is all about, right?), you need to:
I wonder if he had been a frenchman trying this on the US would the have even let him in the country these days?
All I can say is thank god for the France its no wonder people often refer to french fries as freedom fries.
What they didn't tell you was that RMS was actually chased away by a representant of the Dark Side of the Source, DRMS!
Correction. The French are no stranger to losing wars. The French main contribution to wars are complaining a lot and running away/surrendering.
Sorry my bullshit sensor overloaded.
"The PM of France might just have a few things on his plate that he considers more important."
Yes, Mr Stallman, the Prime Minister would love to meet with you but I'm afraid he will be busy washing his hair that day.
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
hey I really think you should read the fucking article. It says that they sent tone of letters and that none of them was even answered. What else is there to do?
download and burn linux with one click on windows
I'm all for supporting Stallman's motives, but his actions are a bit un-professional.
If the PM has not responded to your letters or request for an appt., what on earth makes one think simply walking to his office is going to give you access to such a high-ranking political figure?
That's like Michael Moore demanding to meet w/ Bush on the white house lawn and then wondering why they won't let him through the gates. *hello*
the only permanence in existence, is the impermanence of existence.
Let's not forget that this government has FIERCELY FOUGHT IN FAVOR OF DRM.
There has been several battles at the Assembly, and the government has fully defended the majors'positions.
So I am pretty certain Stallman actually expected this.
Says so here
And yes, LOOKING professional is more important than BEING professional if you ever care to get a job. This is not America: t-shirt and jeans get you nowhere.
For the record, t-shirt and jeans won't get you anywhere in America either. You dress nice for interviews (suit and tie). Once you land the job, if the company allows it, you wear t-shirt and jeans. Otherwise, you dress appropriately.
"French PMS" is unreceptive to rm? That what the -f flag is for.
Shop as usual. And avoid panic buying.
...is the Parliament, not some random collection of loonies storming the gates.
Take your polyanna do-gooder screed elsewhere.
As an online discussion in english involving french people, France, or anything somehow related grows longer, the probability of an use of the verb "surrender" approaches one.
If they sent it via email, perhaps, but it would be automated. If they expected a formal response on letterhead, no, two weeks is not enough time for a full turn-around. These sorts of things, barring great urgency of national signficance, are scheduled MONTHS ahead of time, not weeks.
I mean, come on, people schedule theater tickets and dinner with greater advance notice.
Tough luck for him, it still doesn't excuse his behavor or apperence.
Maybe they should have planed it more in advance then two weeks, but that still leaves the apperence and behavor issues.....
If anything, those who insist that people in positions of respect (managers, political officials, etc.) listen to them even if they dress in a slovenly way are the ones guilty of assuming superiority -- they think they are (or their message is) important enough to disregard the manners and cultural expectations of their audience. That is, simply put, snobbery of the worst kind -- it masquerades as egalitarianism.
You know why people are taken more seriously in a suit? Because it's our culture's accepted formal attire for business. If your audience is important enough, you will respect their culture. If their culture says "formal meetings involve suits", then you should wear a suit. Simple.
We already implicitly acknowledge this when it comes to other formalities like the exchange of business cards, shaking of hands, etc. For example, in Japan, one offers and accepts business cards with both hands, out of respect for the Japanese culture. In France, as in the US, one wears a suit to meet with those in positions of respect or power (politicians, management, etc.).
We may not imagine how our lives could be more frustrating and complex—but Congress can. – Cullen Hightower
A letter was send 15 days before, and no one answered.
Fifteen days? Little wonder no one's answered it yet. The letter is probably still working its way through the beaurocracy to someone who can make a decision on it. Heck, in some cities you can't get an appointment the mayor on two weeks notice.
Lost: Sig, white with black letters. No collar. Reward if found!
According to Wikipedia, he's GNU/53. And ego-mania aside, he's a moderately intelligent individual. So why the hell is he involved in a stupid stunt worthy of an adolescent who just discovered girls are nice and wants to impress them?
I can understand wanting to see a head of state. But what kind of self-centered lack-a-wit, KNOWING he doesn't have an appointment, having gotten ZERO feedback from the official's office, decides he's just gonna barge on in and get an audience? I mean COME ON! Use some common effin' sense!
Just my GNU/Cents.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
He's a socialist worm like everyone else in France (surrender land)
Is it really that hard to write out the full names for things in a title? I had no idea what this story was about.
that ensures that the status quo (and whoever owns it) rules the day.
Hmm... funny how that's essentially the definition of "democracy." This is why a great deal of protest politics aren't taken seriously. They're making an end-run around the democratic process. Take your issues to your MP and lobby them to bring it to the attention of the rest of parliament and the PM. Get a bunch of people do to that with their respective MPs and you can be assured that your message will reach the PM's desk. You're quite likely to get an appointment with YOUR MP, who is also quite likely to get an appointment with the PM. There are 577 members of the National Assembly. Think of how much more effective it would be if 285 people scheduled "town hall" meetings with their respective MPs (you know, the ones who actually write the laws?) in every department of the country. Funny how that works--and no one needs to buy plane tickets.
...for dismissing RMS' choice of methods, manner of dress, haircut, and so on in this matter. I'll have you know this is *exactly* how I proposed to my future wife, and I'm sure I will win her over just as soon as the temporary restraining order is lifted.
He must have started talking.
I mean, you're going to meet the Prime Minister, don't you think a tie is in order? Or at least a step up from khakis and a polo shirt?
Why? Because the guy deserves to be treated like someone special? He's better than these guys so they need to, "dress to impress?"
Hardly. The prime minister works for the people, not the other way around.
It is people like you who actually believe that toadying up to politicians, "showimg respect for the office," etc, etc is important, letting them forget who they work for and ultimately results in the kind of blow-off, you can't even get a response to your request for an appointment, behaviour that Stallman was faced with.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Hardly. Dressing up isn't a sign of respect for the person you're visiting, it's a sign of respect of your self, and for the people you represent. He is a man who is claiming to represent 165,000 people, yet he doesn't take enough pride in him self, his work, or his constituents to represent them in a professional manner?
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
On the continuum of issues... With Richard Stallman on one end and Corporate Interests on the other. I find my own views are probably closer ot the Corporate Interests than Stallman.
RMS is an extremist, and sadly he hurts any reasonable intelligent debate on the issues of DRM and privacy because of stunts such as this. He allows people to paint all criticism of DRM as being aligned with this whackadoodle.
I just wish RMS would go away.
wearing clean clothes, you insensitive clod!
I think the French security were amazingly polite.
Considering the pictures I'm surprised they didn't offer to de-louse him then get him a shave and a cut.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
The French did not support of the idea of giving people more freedom. Imagine that.
MS employ thousands of people and thus in fact do increase the total value of the market.
Thousands of French people? I was unaware of the great positive economic impact purchasing non free softare from a foreign country had. That makes me feel so good, I might just spend a large portion of my own money to replace my free software, despite the fact that free software works better. I mean, sometimes we have to put aside technological arguments to make sure big dumb companies can continue fucking us. That's the American way, right? Really though, I doubt you would feel the same way if M$TF were French and their software offered poor English support.
About 165,000 French citizens think the French DCMA will harm them and the French economy. Many of those signatures come from French and US companies that think the law is bad for everyone. Sun was on the list if you want a "reputable" software opinion. Digging a little closer to the PM's territory are many signatures from French software companies, artists and others who feel as if they were not part of the process. Those are people who would like to be able to compete but will be hampered by this new law.
The only thing more difficult and expensive than freedom is slavery.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
They capitulate, especially to Canadians.
This is Bull Shit (TM).
RMS went to Brasil and talked to our Minister of Culture (which happens to be a musician, and happens to have released some of his works under Creative Commons license recently). The minister was using business attire, black suit, dark gray shirt, darker tie; RMS was in his usual khakhis-and-t-shirt. It is an honour for a head of any branch of the government, not an imposition, to receive a person who -- although I do not agree with many of his practices and/or views -- embodies and started the Free Software movement, and keeps on pushing its agenda. The internet would be a very different beast -- if it existed at all -- if Stallmann hadn't written the GNU manifesto in the 80's.
People who judge a person by his attire are hopefully an endangered species. People's actions define their responsibility, not their clothing. And again, I don't agree or condone many of RMS's/FSF's actions and positions, but I respect them for their work in furthering the Right to Read. Remember that Mohandas Ghandi used, for a long time, only clothes that he had made himself.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
Six month after the publication of very bad amendments to French DRM law proposal
These amendments were introduced mainly because of the fear that Apple would have to change its system to comply with the law. Lobbies have used this occasion to push a lot of "technical stuff" over old senators (I believe they are around 70 on average) effectively putting OSS at risk. You can't have both Apple iTune current system and a DRM-free country.
On a side note, the PM has no power right now and is not listened even by his own political party. The president is in the same situation, in fact, the country is without anyone at the commands. The lethargy should last until 2007, the next presidential election. Do not expect any debate on anything in the meantime, the last important law the PM tried to push brouht rioters in the streets, his current policy is to do "damage control" during the next 10 months.
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
When has anyone ever been receptive to RMS?
That's what he did, many times. No one wanted to talk to them, so they took their written grievances and 165,000 signatures and knocked on the door of a public building. The police told them to go away and would not accept the signatures.
This was a purely political move. The signatures are available on line. The refusal to meet or to accept any input whatsoever from the groups opposed to DADVSI sends them a message: we don't care what you think.
Normal people don't act that way. When software experts, such as Sun and the FSF can both agree that something is wrong with a technical law, you owe it to yourself to listen. Ignoring knowlegable input is more commonly known as acting like an ass.
Yeah, Manip, you're a troll and I should not be feeding you. Such crap is as good as any for expressing my surprise and outrage at what I just read about. The people behind DADVSI are using force to get their nasty little laws passed and they will use force when they are broken by people doing nothing wrong. I'm ashamed that those companies are mostly based in the US.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Your making it sound like these people are special. They're puppets. I'd rather meet their masters.
Please be better informed in your insults to the free software community and the ideals of your own country. RMS, for all his lack of vanity, does not stink. The same can not be said of the PM or his normal guests.
You do know that Mr. Gates is famous for both his informal attire and his bad hygiene, don't you? See here:
The photo also unintentionally captures classic Gates: completely wrecked hair, terrible looking clothes, generally slovenly appearance, and two glazed eyes staring out past thick glasses. This image changed very little over the bulk of Gates' career, with the shower taps running at much less frequency than the money taps. It should also be noted that this isn't some heaping of sour grapes from the gutter staring up at Bill's mountain of success; throughout the time he has been known in public, Bill's dedication to all-nighters and in-the-trenches energy ensured a number of high-profile press conferences and demonstrations where his lack of hygiene became as breathtaking as the product being demonstrated.
Mr. Gates was welcomed as a head of state on his visit.
Embarrassing indeed but some things smell worse than body odor. When money trumps morals and law, it's not good to be on either side. While there is great shame for the PM in selling out his fellow countrymen, there is also great shame in trying to buy him. There's plenty of stink to go around on this one and clothes are small stuff in the big picture.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Hardly. Dressing up isn't a sign of respect for the person you're visiting, it's a sign of respect of your self, and for the people you represent.
Considering that he has rarely, if ever, dressed that way in the past - changing his ways now would hardly be a sign of respect for himself or for the people he is representing.
Being true to yourself is the only source of respect here, conformity to someone else's standards, particularly a set of standards that are themselves an embodiment of artificial conformity, is hardly an admirable behaviour.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Interesting, your posting history right now has a number of flamebait and troll mods (quite a few), and the reply to this post reveals even more of your handywork.
Are you for real?
...is one of the last people I would want making a presentation to a political figure. His dogmatic approach and generally oblivious nature (not to mention his decorum) would make him more damaging than useful in person.
His tendencies runs contra to almost every tenet of diplomatic/political chess. Linus is a far more adroit.
The guy with the big bucks made the Time 100 list this year for funding 1/3 of the world's research on Malaria.
The guy with the big bucks is the man the President of China (poulation, 1.3 billion) came to see before he saw George Bush. The guy with the big bucks is the one who understands protocol and security.
That's a pretty sweeping argument there. Have you perchance published a GPL'ed AutoCAD equivalent?
big dumb companies
Um OK, that's ridiculous.
M$FT
Oh LOLOLOL!! How clever!
About 165,000 French citizens
Out of 64 million? Impressive. And this was an online petition, right? We know how precise those are. I bet I could get 170,000 "signatures" declaring the consumption of roadkill to be a good thing. Please.
Sun was on the list
Interesting. And why were they on the list? So they can sell their own software? Would that be an example of your infantile "big dumb companies" that "fuck us"?
The only thing more difficult and expensive than freedom is slavery.
Oh god, please tell me you're on something...
Very likely, the man he was trying to meet with had very little interest in who Stallman is or his mode of dress.
He does work with well dressed, well groomed, professional people on a daily basis. He most likely does expect that anyone with an educated and worthwhile opinion will probably be smart enough to dress appropriately for their meeting.
If someone is important enough that you need to secure their support, then they are important enough to meet their expectations and standards of appearance. It's well known that first impressions are the most lasting, so your appearance may well doom your cause before you even shake hands. At the very least, it will be a distraction during the whole meeting. Either way, you lose.
Want to play the "YOU work for ME, Mister Man!" card as someone else on this thread was spewing? Go ahead. But get used to losing. That works about as well as telling the cop that you pay his salary.
"Umm... No. I fully support anyone who chooses not to meet with RMS, for whatever reason they choose."
Why? What is it about RMS that makes you so angry?
evil is as evil does
French papers report: "At last, an American who bathes as infrequently as we do!"
They may be assholes, and they may be crooks, but they were right about Iraq and we were wrong.
"Being true to yourself is the only source of respect here, conformity to someone else's standards,"
Yes and no. For starters, he is representing 165,000 people, so in addition to himself, he needs to be true to those 165,000 people. Second, politics is a job for salesmen/saleswomen. It is not enough to say to the PM "This is who we are, this is what we think, and this is a list of a huge number of voters who agree with us!" They have to sell the idea to the PM. And in this position, your previous point is partially true, if the PM doesn't think you look respectable, he won't respect you. You could have the greatest issue ever, with the whole country supporting you, but if you send someone who looks like a pressure washed street bum in to talk to the PM, your spokes person won't likely get a word in.
The PM of France probably gets thousands of requests similar to the ones that RMS sent in. Some undersecretary flips through them and determines who gets in. Will that person schedule some of the PM's limited time to 3 guys with a petition which would likely have little gain for the country, or schedule some time with the leader of an international software firm that employees thousands and provides software and services to a huge portion of the economy? It's a no brain-er.
To get philosophical about the whole deal, society is extremely discriminating. Everyone is, it is the norm. Some forms of discrimination are frowned on (race, sex, heritage, religion, etc...) but many more forms are not only acceptable, but expected. Appearance, money, affluence, education, clout, and profit potential are all acceptable things to judge someone on. If set upon by three individuals wearing nice suits appearing professional and politely requesting a moment of his time (30 seconds or less to spout off who they are, their voting block, and that they would like to arrange a meeting), he may go for it. If set upon by two college kids and a showered hippy asking for a moment of his time with papers and a huge role of paper, he's just going to blow them off.
They should hire a lobbyist to at least teach them the etiquette of the position so they can use the system to their advantage in stead of parading about like a bunch of college kids on a crusade.
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
I'd love to get RMS's recipe book. Perhaps he will make an appearance on the Food Channel.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
That's called being in the right place at the right time - which RMS wasn't.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
Umm, RMS's smug demeanor and obsessive behavior about things like naming conventions piss off a lot of people. Not sure if you've noticed, but he's generally not well liked on Slashdot. If he's not even well-liked here among his own constituency, well, doesn't bode well for his role as a figurehead, regardless of what you may think of his ideals.
Emacs is certainly not a copy of a UNIX tool: gcc, while in many ways matching other compiler's results, was written quite independently and continues to be one of the core components of Linux and all of the BSD-based operating systems. Other tools, such as GNU versions of "make", "compress", "bash" and "ghostscript" all are fundamental to many, many other tools in commoon use have properly displaced the proprietary versions of those tools for many operating systems.
Don't underestimate GNU and the FSF: they still do quite a lot of development work, even if it's merely by organizng other scattered developers around the world to finish a project and get something working.
"Umm, RMS's smug demeanor and obsessive behavior about things like naming conventions piss off a lot of people. "
/. crowd is his constituency. They tend to be the whiners and not the coders. The coders are his constituency. Not to mention the amazing amount of astro turfing that goes on here. Certainly RMS is on the hitlist of MS and other propritary software makers.
So it's your opinion that smug demeanor and obsessive behavior about naming conventions undoes every good thing he does and causes you to hate him. When you take into account his entire lifes work you decide that on the whole his smugness and obsession undoes every good thing he has ever done and tips the scales in your eyes to being a figure to be hated and despised.
"Not sure if you've noticed, but he's generally not well liked on Slashdot. "
Yes I have noticed. I am curious as to why so many people hate him so much given that he has built FSF and works so tirelessly on behalf of software freedom.
"If he's not even well-liked here among his own constituency, well, doesn't bode well for his role as a figurehead, regardless of what you may think of his ideals."
I don't think the
evil is as evil does
The first clue was that he rewrote the unix system from scratch. Yes, that's his big accomplishment, the giant feather in his cap that allows him to claim the respect of the Open Source* community. But only a megalomaniac would even attempt that, much less finish it.
RMS is to intellectual rights as Jack Thompson is to game ratings.
(*Not the Free Software community. Fuck you, RMS.)
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
The man wanted to come with two French people, as well as a list of a hundred and sixty five thousand Frenchmen and a thousand organizations in France agreeing with their cause. The protocol issues aside, I would believe this would be very valuable input w.r.t. the law being debated.
My question is whether the PM even knew that this was going on at any time. If he did, I can't think of any better way to say "you can take your opinion and shove it up your ass" to so many (French) people so efficiently. If he didn't - well, who'd blame his chief of security for dismissing somebody with such an eccentric style.
As for sympathy, who gives a f*ck about sympathy.
Yes, I'm sure the French PM is bombarded with people waving petitions holding over 160,000 signatures every minute of every day.
Of course in some countries you can force a general referendum, on any issue, if you can collect signatures amounting to 2.76% of the population. Unfortunately RMS only got 2.59% of the French population ...
What is it about RMS that makes you so angry?
I wouldn't say "angry". More like, not worth talking to.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
given that he has built FSF
That is a major exaggeration. A lot of people built the FSF.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
You need to take a break from posting for a while jcr. You've been acting like an ass of late, and this is probably the easiest example to point at.
For starters, he is representing 165,000 people, so in addition to himself, he needs to be true to those 165,000 people.
He is representing them as himself. He didn't come along after the fact - those people chose him and his cause as he was, not as someone else.
They have to sell the idea to the PM. And in this position, your previous point is partially true, if the PM doesn't think you look respectable, he won't respect you. You could have the greatest issue ever, with the whole country supporting you, but if you send someone who looks like a pressure washed street bum in to talk to the PM, your spokes person won't likely get a word in.
With the whole country behind him, it wouldn't matter what he looks like. The PM would be calling RMS for an appointment to lick his boots.
So RMS doesn't have quite so many people as that, but as long as the PM is going to evaluate ideas by a person's manner of dress, it is the PM who stands to lose. He can either get on the train or ignore it and get run over by it.
The PM of France probably gets thousands of requests similar to the ones that RMS sent in. Some undersecretary flips through them and determines who gets in. Will that person schedule some of the PM's limited time to 3 guys with a petition which would likely have little gain for the country, or schedule some time with the leader of an international software firm that employees thousands and provides software and services to a huge portion of the economy? It's a no brain-er.
Yes, definitely a no-brainer to ignore your constituents. Although I sincerely doubt that the PM gets 'thousands' of requests from people with at least 165,000 names on their petitions - I do have to say that you are right, that's the way modern business, er, politics, is done, francs before brains.
They should hire a lobbyist to at least teach them the etiquette of the position so they can use the system to their advantage in stead of parading about like a bunch of college kids on a crusade
Basically, you are saying that RMS needs to "respect mah authoritae!" - but if he were the type to be so obeisant in the first place, he would never be where he is today. The president of India seemed to have no such qualms about meeting with RMS. The French PM blows him and his ideas off at his own peril.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
I don't think he is looking for an audience with you but hey maybe one day he will and you can turn him down. That would show him!
evil is as evil does
"That is a major exaggeration. A lot of people built the FSF."
I suppose it makes you feel better to minimize his efforts. You still haven't answered any of my points though.
evil is as evil does
I don't think he is looking for an audience with you
Heh.. You've never met him, have you?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I suppose it makes you feel better to minimize his efforts.
On the contrary! I'm quite aware of RMS's tireless efforts to belittle and deride the work of anyone who chooses to give software away under terms that don't meet with his approval. HIs efforts are great, indeed.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I think this kind of irrational hatred counts as a mental illness, personally.
Hatred? WTF are you talking about? RMS will never be important enough to hate.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Well really, come on, we're talking about RMS here. Where will his stupidity end. There is noone that can take away from him his accomplishments in software development. Noone can even take away the fact that he was the beginning of GNU. The principles he stands for have been around for ages before and will exist for ever after. They're not new, they're not revolutionary. It's just the first time in history there is a medium where a person voicing his ideas can be publicly heard without being a member of royalty or head of a country.
So, here's the deal. Why doesn't FSF, EFF, etc... ditch this loud mouthed radical idiot and use the massive amount of money they manage to collect to hire a legitimate CEO or spokesperson to represent them. I mean, get one of the "suits" that used to run 50% of IBM or saved Xerox at some point. Or even a former SGI or Cray guy. Hell... this is a stretch, but I would imagine that Carly is looking for a job these days.
It takes a person that can actually get their foot in the door by speaking the same political language as the politicians to make the changes that RMS is talking about. If it takes a person like Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, etc... to open doors and have their voices heard... well that's what FSF and EFF need. They need someone with a suit, a tie, and money.
Here is my best recommendation, Mark Andreeson. Although most would agree he's become a blabbering idiot as of late, he has a certain credibility from his past at Netscape that lets him get through doors to politicians. If he can learn to tone it down, learn to speak to others as peers or superiors (even if they are 10 notches down the intellectual food chain) and learn to present his ideas in a way what make sense to the politicians instead of slapping them around and calling them stupid and saying "You listen to me, I'm smarter than you". Then he would be a prime candidate, young, bright, and most importantly wealthy enough to mingle with the rich and powerful.
You just have to realize that politicians are not engineers, they typically lack the ability to understand things that are complex. They can understand basic action and reaction reasoning, but when there are too many variables, it has to be simplified for them. But keep in mind, these are powerful people that understand they are powerful, they need to be made to feel as if they're intelligent and information needs to be laid out for them in a way that makes them feel as if they made the connection. If you want them to hear you, then instead of presenting them a "solution", instead present them a problem defined in such a way that they can solve it exactly as you'd like it, leave no other ways. Instead of presenting the solution straight out, explain the problem, if they ask your opinion for a solution, offer them a slightly flawed version of your own solution, explain the weakness in the reasoning and let them figure out the missing part on their own.
Although I'm not a fan of the overall structure of Plato's Republic, you should read it to learn the oldest known method of political persuasion. If you don't see my point from that, then find someone who does since this is how politics has worked for thousands of years and will work for thousands to come. But, RMS is a bull in a glass store, you need a "Socrates".
Once again feel free to minimize his accomplishments if it makes you feel better. It would be an interesting exercize to list your accomplishments and compare them to his though.
For example I think your ability to belittle and deride the work of people you hate is much greater then his. Your posts in this thread prove that.
evil is as evil does
No I haven't. Could you maybe post an email of him requesting an audience with you or scan the letter you recieved where he is asking for an audience with you?
Thanks.
evil is as evil does
"those people chose him and his cause"
.3% of France's population) might not even be French! And on top of that, the people who make the petition with target their primary demographics, so the names on that list are not representative of the public at large. Compare that to a meeting with an industrial giant that could create 40,000 jobs in the labor pool, support companies and community growth could almost double that number. Who would you spend your time talking to? The college kids with a meaningless piece of paper, or the corporate head who can create tens of thousands of jobs?
I would be willing to bet most of those people chose his CAUSE and had no idea who the man at the helm was.
"Yes, definitely a no-brainer to ignore your constituents. Although I sincerely doubt that the PM gets 'thousands' of requests from people with at least 165,000 names on their petitions - I do have to say that you are right, that's the way modern business, er, politics, is done, francs before brains."
He likely does, although not in the form of a petition. The problem with petitions is that many people will sign them, but not all of those people will vote, nor will they side with the petition when it comes to action time. Also, there was no mention of how the petition was formed, it could have been a publicly accessible website, which means that 165,000 people (about
Who would the signers of that petition side with? The moral victory of free software, or a new job?
"Basically, you are saying that RMS needs to "respect mah authoritae!" "
No, I am saying that if RMS wants to win by the game, they need to learn how to play. You don't win at Monopoly by pissing on the other players, and you don't get legislation passed by looking like a hooligan trying to interrupt the PM.
"The president of India seemed to have no such qualms about meeting with RMS."
The president of India is a completely different situation. But if an American, a Brit, and an Indian tried to interrupt the President with a petition with 500,000 signatures requesting and end to out sourcing of western jobs, he probably wouldn't stop either.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
People show up to see their Reps and Senators all the time. Let me tell you how it works: You walk in the door and ask the secretary, who is generally an effete 22yo male chess-club captain of dubious sexuality in a Brooks Brothers Oxford button-down and a bad tie and worse haircut, chat briefly (these offices are generally quite devoid of visitors) and make your case for your meeting. It doesn't hurt to have an attractive 20-something Abercrombie&Fitch type tagging along, who will oh-so-inappropriately try to drag said secretary out for drinks later after you leave (this town LIVES on booze). If you're not an asshole, they'll generally be quite forthcoming about the schedule and you'll now be a face attached to a name, event and issue (and possibly the best lay of their life--these people are SOOOOO repressed, it's practically certain)--this is the most important step. You then ask said secretary for the business card of the chief of staff (NOT the senator/rep), and inquire if you might speak with them today. Probably not going to happen, so you politely leave, saying you'll follow up in a week or so. Over the next month, you lobby that chief of staff-in brief, formal style--listing all the great benefits to the constituency--and campaign--your little event will provide and how you talked to Preston, the humble secretary, who thought it was a smashing idea. It also doesn't hurt to be a gadfly at the political party said Senator/Rep belongs to, such that you can bend the ear of a prominent person (read: campaign contributor) and drop their name in this extended sales-pitch. You may succeed, you may not, but if you follow proper protocol, you'd be amazed how easy it is to succeed. Now, you may not get everything you want, but you will get attention and as you've so keenly noted, you ARE just one voice out of several hundred thousand your rep must represent, so don't get too uppity if you get 1/700,000th of his/her undivided attention.
Yeah, revolutionaries. Everyone has to turn their issues into wars. Well, you may win a war, but in making wars, you generally make enemies of half the people involved and that's not a very good strategy if you have a long list of wars you're fighting. Sooner or later, everyone will be your enemy and you'll likely end up dead along with your largely forgotten cause...or you'll rule the world with an iron fist and reign supreme. Guess which is more likely?
Yes, a man in a loincloth brought down the British Empire, but I wouldn't suggest showing up at the gates of parliament in diapers if you wish to be taken seriously.
FTFA:
The FSF France wrote to the French Prime minister two weeks ago so that he might receive Richard Stallman, founding president of the Free Software Foundation, before making any decision on the DADVSI bill. Richard Stallman was to be present in Paris at the beginning of June 2006 for various public actions against DRM and the DADVSI bill. The FSF France received no answer (neither negative nor positive) from the Prime Minister.
Having failed to get an appointment with the Prime Minister, Richard Stallman decided to go to Matignon (the official residence of the French Prime minister) on Friday, June 9th at 3:30 pm, with the printed list of the 165 000 signatures of EUCD.INFO petition and to try to be received by the Prime Minister and to deliver the EUCD.INFO petition (printed on a 17 meters long banner).
The delegation led by Richard Stallman was courteously but firmly pushed back by Matignon's Chief of Security who stated that : the decision not to receive Richard Stallman was made after mature reflexion .
Nothing to see here. Move along.
I think your ability to belittle and deride the work of people you hate is much greater then his. Your posts in this thread prove that.
Why do you presume to claim that I "hate" someone, simply because I'm not a fan of his? There aren't many people I hate, and richard will never be important enough to be among them.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Once again I commend you on your ability to belittle and deride the works of others. You are clearly a master at this long lost art. Did you ever make that lists of accomplishments by the way?
evil is as evil does
actually, it's closer to 0,259% ;-)
Once again I commend you on your ability to belittle and deride the works of others.
Aw... I'm sorry I don't share your reverence for RMS. Does it wound your little ego to know that your opinion of him isn't unanimous?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Well I am still waiting for that list of accomplishments. You can put "the ability to deride the works of others" on the top if you want.
evil is as evil does
I would be willing to bet most of those people chose his CAUSE and had no idea who the man at the helm was.
Even if true, whose fault is that? RMS should stop being true to himself because some other people screwed up?
No, I am saying that if RMS wants to win by the game, they need to learn how to play. You don't win at Monopoly by pissing on the other players, and you don't get legislation passed by looking like a hooligan trying to interrupt the PM.
I don't think he does want to "win by the game" - refer to previous posts where I pointed out that RMS would not be where he is today if he had been trying to, "win by the game." They don't hand out McArthur "genius grants" to people who are conventional and mainstream.
In either case, dressing in one's everyday attire is one hell of a far cry from being as disrespectful as either pissing on someone or acting like a hooligan. Aren't you the one who said, "dressing up isn't a sign of respect for the person you're visiting," anyway?
The president of India is a completely different situation. But if an American, a Brit, and an Indian tried to interrupt the President with a petition with 500,000 signatures requesting and end to out sourcing of western jobs, he probably wouldn't stop either.
You do realize that your example is backwards? Unless you are talking about the President of the US. Unlike India deriving all kinds of benefits from outsourcing, starting with an increased tax base, more local working capital, etc -- for France, the only benefit to adopting draconian DRM is in keeping on the good side of the US state department. Unless, that is, France plans on making their own locally produced entertainment DRM-free and thus letting hollywood cripple themselves in their local market. I doubt that's the case, its far too insightful for a politician to have worked out on his own.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
"Even if true, whose fault is that? RMS should stop being true to himself because some other people screwed up?"
So you are suggesting that the vast majority of FSF fans are idiots? All insults aside, RMS should be true to the cause. And that cause can be BEST SERVED by playing the political game.
"They don't hand out McArthur "genius grants" to people who are conventional and mainstream."
And how many 'McArthur "genius grant"' recipients are elected officials or have independently sponsored successful bills? My guess would be a scant few. I know some amazingly smart people, but most of them have the social skills of a tooth pick.
Point being, if you want the FSF and related movement to move forward and have a hand in the political process you need to decouple your face from RMS's crotch and learn the game. It's that simple, RMS can rant and rave all he likes, but so long as lobbyist with political face time can consistently show why RMS/FSF is not in the politician's best interest, whether it is true or not, he, and the movement will fail.
"Aren't you the one who said, "dressing up isn't a sign of respect for the person you're visiting," anyway?"
Perhaps I over simplified that. Dressing up is a sign of respect for yourself. Following etiquette is both a sign of respect for yourself and the person you're visiting. By following protocol not only are you respecting the person you are visiting, but you are showing that your believe is important enough that you are willing to follow someone else's procedures for presenting it. If RMS really cared about the cause why doesn't he use acceptable and proven effective means to advance it, instead of amateur tactics with little to no chance of success?
"You do realize that your example is backwards?"
Nope, my example was exactly as I intended. Lobbyist with access to the politicians will show how their plan is beneficial to the politician, his/her constituents, and the voting public. If a few amateurs try to interject rambling claiming just the opposite in passing, they will be discredited and ignored. Where as if those dissenters hired a lobbyist of their own, they would have much better luck at getting face time with the politician and getting their view heard by the people that matter.
ugg, I'm too tired to keep at this tonight.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
Folks...
This operation was, excuse me, a success. Either RMS could get an appointment with Villepin (or, more probably, a technical or political advisor of his), and he could try to add to the overall pressure on this issue. Either he could not, and then it was an excellent occasion to dump the 165,000 signatures into the gutter in front of photographers, and then to accuse Villepin of disregarding the opinion of hundreds of thousands of his fellow citizens.
Of course, this is a cheap media stunt. It took only a few dozen people to walk to Matignon (the PM's office) and, for this, they got the attention of the specialized media, Slashdot etc. No need to throw an expensive party, as some industry lobbyists have done.
In any case, contrary to what people seem to suggest, the whole anti-DADVSI operation is quite successful. (DADVSI is the name of the law, an equivalent to the DMCA.) With hardly any money, and against them enormous and powerful lobbies, they have managed to stall the legislation for 6 months, and to incite strong divisions inside the ruling majority. (Not to mention amusing statements by the president of the National Assembly, who declared that the law had been ill-prepared, and that the minister in charge of it was a zero who had put the majority members of parliament in the shit about this law...)
I suggest people here (most of whom don't know anything about what they discuss) should read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DADVSI
Dressing up is a sign of contempt for the person whose biases you are taking advantage of. If I thought they were smart, I wouldn't expect it to work, so I wouldn't try.
I have read a lot of comments in the tone of "rms is un-hygienic". Can you inform me if that does have any truth in it? AFAIK, he has long and un-groomed, un-trimmed hair and beard, but -- at least in the close-ups I remember seeing, and in the reports I have heard of people who went in FS events in person -- they seemed to be normally washed and cleaned. No person that I know and went to any Free Software conference ever said to me, "oh, yes, and Stallman really smells bad"... :-). And, as a disclaimer, I do wear a goatee, not always groomed or trimmed, but it's always clean and hygienic. Ah, and I wear black t-shirts and jeans to my day job, too -- almost every single day. I wear one t-shirt per day, a different set of underwear for the day and for the night, and my jeans are regularly washed (I use one or two pairs per week). I shower everyday, wash my hair almost every day, brush my teeth a number of times >= 3, floss, etc. Would you consider me un-hygienic?
Just as attire =/= responsibility, hygiene =/= trimmed hair + short or no beard.
Now, I know people with cavagnacs (goatees) in USofAn movies are usually the villains or even the evil twins -- thank $DEITY the albinos are taking our place those days
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
So you are suggesting that the vast majority of FSF fans are idiots?
No, you are.
I am the one who said that, "those people chose him and his cause."
You are the one who said that they, "had no idea who the man at the helm was."
I have all the faith in the world that those petition signers knew who RMS was and the kinds of tactics he uses.
RMS should be true to the cause. And that cause can be BEST SERVED by playing the political game.
In your opinion only. I am pretty sure that RMS is a little bit closer to the action than you are. Let me say this for the 3rd time now, maybe it will sink in - RMS got where he is today by NOT playing the political game.
And how many 'McArthur "genius grant"' recipients are elected officials or have independently sponsored successful bills? My guess would be a scant few.
And this is relevant, how? RMS ain't running for elected office, he can't sponsor a bill. On the flip-side, how many politicians have had anywhere near the personal impact on society that RMS has already had? Most of them are just figureheads for their campaign backers
All insults aside
Funny, you sure can't seem to put them aside, here comes another one...
Point being, if you want the FSF and related movement to move forward and have a hand in the political process you need to decouple your face from RMS's crotch and learn the game.
Oh, I know the game. As an independent I play it all the time with my clients - though I do find myself less and less willing to play as my bank account gets fatter and fatter. I play the game for personal gain, not as one of the people most responsible for a sea-change in the computing industry. RMS doesn't have to play the game - not just because of his accomplishments, but because of the inevitability of the change that he represents.
By following protocol not only are you respecting the person you are visiting, but you are showing that your believe is important enough that you are willing to follow someone else's procedures for presenting it.
Like submitting an official meeting request weeks beforehand with the expectation of an acknlowedgement, either accepting or denying it? Protocol like that, maybe? Or is grooming really the deciding factor for the scheduling of meetings? I mean, I would not be surprised if it were, so much of politics is just bullshit, that would fit right in as SOP.
Nope, my example was exactly as I intended.
Funny, what you 'intended' and what you wrote the first time around are more than just a little contradictory. Kind of like all your back-tracking and circular reasoning on conformist "respectin' mah authoritae" - you've got a tribal mentality that defers to hierarchy and can't quite grasp that fundamental goal of Freedom which motivates RMS. You've got just enough of it to feel that it threatens part of that hierarchy so you disparage RMS and his contributions by criticisizing him for being non-conformist - which is kind of like criticisizing Ford for building autos instead of carriages or Luther for writing his 95 theses instead of following Church protocols.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
"No, you are."
No, I said they didn't know who was at the helm, you are the one who called them screw ups.
"I have all the faith in the world that those petition signers knew who RMS was and the kinds of tactics he uses."
Knowing now the types of tactics RMS uses I am withdrawing my support of the FSF, and will recommend others to find a more effective organization to back.
"RMS got where he is today by NOT playing the political game."
And I will say again, RMS is not a political power house. Or are you saying that it was RMS's goal to wind up with a broken patent system, the DCMA, and limitations of consumers rights? There are hundreds of lobbyists who could hold a candle to RMS on the intellectual or moral front, but have significantly more political clout.
"Funny, you sure can't seem to put them aside, here comes another one..."
Sorry, that was a bit harsh of me. It was the end of a very, very long day. My apologies.
"Oh, I know the game. As an independent I play it all the time with my clients"
Then you of all people should understand why it is important to work the system instead of trying to force your way against it.
"Like submitting an official meeting request weeks beforehand with the expectation of an acknowledgement, either accepting or denying it? Protocol like that, maybe?"
Yeah, that would be a great start. And when that fails, submit again. Have a successful lobbyist look over your requests and see if they are poorly worded. If sending a well worded request in still fails, try hitting up a smaller target first. If you could get on of the cabinet members on your side, you may get an extra hand getting in for the meeting with the PM. There are hundreds of appropriate attack vectors to worth through IN the system. All of which would have been significantly more likely to forward the cause than that little stint on the street. What were they expecting? The PM would come over and have a 15 minute talk to them about artists and consumers' rights? Then break down crying, screaming "What have I done!?!" Even if they managed to get to the PM they would have a matter of seconds to talk to him.
"Funny, what you 'intended' and what you wrote the first time around are more than just a little contradictory."
How so? Lobbyists tell the President of India that out sourced jobs are good for India, the opposition send 3 people out to interrupt the President and tell him that out sourced jobs are bad for India. The President, if he even hears the 3 poorly dressed individuals' message (over the crowd, motorcade, and secret service) thinks back to all the briefings and charts he's seen that show him how out sourced jobs are good for the economy.
Same thing here. Lobbyists tell the PM of France that stronger CR laws and enforcement will help the economy and promote big business media in France (ie: jobs, tourism, taxes). The President, if he even hears the 3 poorly dressed individuals' message (over the crowd, motorcade, and secret service) thinks back to all the briefings and charts he's seen that show him how out stronger CR laws are good for the economy.
Is RMS an impressive man? Sure. Is he the right man to lead the FSF? Probably. Is the the right man to take FSF's cause to the political arena? No way. And seeing as how the FSF has political goals, I can't see following them so long as they show nothing but incompetence in the political arena.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
Well I am still waiting for that list of accomplishments
When did I offer to comply with your demand?
See, this is something that you and RMS have in common: the assumption that just because you demand something, that others must comply and jump through your hoops. Sorry, it's not going to happen.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
You know I have been thinking about your problem.
Here you are pissing on RMS on slashdot like all the other 17 year olds but I imagine this does not really give a feeling of satisfaction. I mean all the kool kids piss on RMS here and lets face it he probably hasn't read your posts about him anyway. I am sure this must leave you with some feeling of inadequecy and frustration. I mean what's the use of pissing on somebody when they are not even there!.
He is my suggestion. I suggest you do something. I don't mean pissing on people here, I mean something significant. So significant that RMS will seek an audience with you. At that point you can publicly reject him!. Now THAT would be really pissing on RMS!. You can end your letter with "IN YOUR FACE MUTHAFUCKA!".
What do you think? Here a couple of suggestions. You can write a really cool compiler, you can write a really great editor, you can start a non profit foundation and run it, you could give lectures, you could write lots of articles and get them published all over the world. You know simple stupid shit like that. Anybody can do that kind of stuff.
I eagerly await the fruits of your efforts. Let's face it giving the finger to RMS from your mothers basement can't be all that rewarding.
evil is as evil does
What a fascinating fantasy world you live in. If I were looking for attention, RMS is among the last people I'd want to get it from.
Of course, your suggestions above look like great things for you to do yourself. Let us know how it works out.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
RMS wants an audience with me, with you, with the prime minister of France, and anyone else, anytime, anywhere. It's what the man lives for.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I am not suggesting that you are looking for attention (clearly you are not). I am suggesting that giving the finger to RMS from your mothers basement probably isn't all that fulfilling. If you really want to piss on RMS I suggest you do something (other then post on slashdot of course) so that he will want an audience with you and then you can piss on him for real!. You can post his email on the web and your reply which of course will be a rejection letter ending with "IN YOUR FACE MUTHAFUCKA!".
All you have to do is to write a C compiler or start a non profit and give lectures and write articles and easy shit like that. Anybody can do that stuff, it's not like it's an accomplishment or anything.
evil is as evil does
Wow. You've made an awful lot of posts in this thread deriding RMS for someone who thinks that he's completely insignificant.
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
I never said he was completely insignificant. I said he's not important enough to hate.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I am suggesting that giving the finger to RMS from your mothers basement probably isn't all that fulfilling.
Does it prop up your ego to imagine me in this way?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I am just trying to help you that's all. If you are happy merely pissing on RMS on slashdot then more power to you. It just seems to me that pissing on RMS here is really not all that kewl. I mean you are just a part of the herd here.
/.
Clearly your powers to deride the works of others is going to waste here on
evil is as evil does
I am just trying to help you that's all.
No, you're not. You're trying and failing to get my goat. But, feel free to continue. It's quite amusing.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I don't mean to "get your goat". I am just trying to help you out. Surely there has to be a better way for you to demean RMS then to join the /. herd.
evil is as evil does
Damn those decimal points! Er, commas. Damn them!
I am just trying to help you out.
No, you aren't.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Ok then. If you are happy being one of the kewl kids of /. who piss on RMS safely tucked away in their mothers basement then more power to you.
I was just giving you ideas of how you could really piss on him. You know publicly humiliate him and make him notice you.
evil is as evil does
Keep trying, you haven't come close to any of my buttons yet.
As for humiliating RMS, he does a far better job of that himself than anyone else could hope to accomplish. Getting snubbed by the french? LOL!
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."