Heat, Whine, and Now Yellow MacBooks

unPlugged-2.0 writes "It appears that Apple's woes with the new MacBook line continue as there have been reports on the forum that the finish on the new MacBook is flaking off or turning yellow. An article on Daily Tech summarizes this report saying: 'Some users have reported the palm rest area, touchpad and mousepad of their new white MacBooks has begun to discolor.' It goes on to say that 'some users on the Apple support forums are reporting moderate to severe discoloration near the palm rest and other locations of their new white MacBooks. At least one user has posted images of the problem to Flickr.' Is this a case of just dirty hands or could it be another problem in Apple's new Intel saga?"

Comments

As long as it works

[Silver Sloth]

who cares what it looks like?

Re:As long as it works

[stevebrowne]

well we all know that iPod nanos stopped working when the screens got scratched, so maybe Macs stop working when the white rubs off. Coming soon: Macs that change from black to grey.

Re:As long as it works

[BigNumber]

Everytime someone says 'who cares what it looks like' Steve Jobs dies a little bit.

Seriously, though, this is a company that has made it's living on how things look. When they tried to put out standard PC-looking beige boxes, their sales went into the toilet. If it isn't pretty, it can't be an Apple product.

Re:As long as it works

[mincognito]

And if your brand new car starts to discolor after a couple of weeks? Still gets you from A to B, right?

Re:As long as it works

[Anonymous Coward]

who cares what it looks like?

Yes, after all, Apple's customers are fairly rational and not easily fooled by appearance.

(Try reading above phrase this with a straight face.)

Re:As long as it works

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is the philosophy of most IBM PC users. If it works, it doesn't need to be pretty.

However most Mac users are, by definition, more concerned about appearance than their PC counterparts. Apple products are supposed to be shiney. If the Mac in question is as aesthetically shoddy as most clone PCs, then why would you drop the extra money on it?

Of course, stingy PC-using heathen that I am, I don't see why you'd pay extra for a pretty interface and decorative casing in the first place, but that's beside the point.

Re:As long as it works

[RsG]

Actually, I'd be more worried about a new car's paint flaking off because of the danger of rust. After all, if the function of the surface is partly to protect the underlying metal, and that functionality is lost due to the paint breaking off faster than it should, then you can't really say that the car is still working properly.

Could you make the same claim about the Macs in the article?

Re:As long as it works

[emmetropia]

If you were drinking coffee/eating lunch, having a cig, not washing your hands, and then rubbing your hands over a 6" wide portion of your "brand new" car, btw, that cost you about $1000, instead of the average $15000, for several weeks, i'm sure it would have discoloration as well.

Re:As long as it works

[RsG]

Which is the philosophy of most IBM PC users. If it works, it doesn't need to be pretty.

Oh I dunno. What about the popularity of windows? Does that fit the description of something that "works, but isn't pretty"?

Assuming you have two otherwise equal PC products and one has a more attractive interface, better marketing/branding, or is otherwise "prettier" than the other, which one wins in the market? Actually, I wouldn't even say that it has to be a question of equally functional products - appearance can triumph over functionality. Companies ranging from microsoft to AOL are proof of this.

I agree with most of your post, but your average PC user really isn't that different from your average mac user in this regard. It's just us hardcore geeks who care more about utility than appearance.

Re:As long as it works

[Anonymous Coward]

You discovered the Computers code name
It's the 'Picture of Doiran Gray Model',
Now the Quiz
  Which person who works there is the Human host for the Flaking ?
And ,
Is the computer flaking the people too, or are the people just flaking the computer ?

Re:As long as it works

[tciny]

Writing this from my not-discolored MacBook I can tell you that these are obviously idividual cases.

Re:As long as it works

[AndresCP]

uh..why do you think they use Apple? it's pretty.

Well, that and the vastly superior user interface compared to windows.

But mostly the shiny.

Re:As long as it works

[zuzzabuzz]

"Everytime someone says 'who cares what it looks like' Steve Jobs dies a little bit."
Who cares what it looks like?






mwuhahahahahah!

But I do believe in fairies.

Re:As long as it works

[CastrTroy]

But he didn't say flaking off, he just said discoloured. As long as the paint is still there, it's still protecting.

Re:As long as it works

[masklinn]

Oh yeah I had things like that, little metal cars which changed color when I dropped them in hot water, can I get that on my mac? My friends will be sooo amazed when i'll drop my brand new macbook a tub full of hot water and they see it change color.

Re:As long as it works

[RsG]

True. I was thinking of the Macs in TFA when I wrote that. My bad.

Re:As long as it works

[Silver Sloth]

Well actually I used my 2 week old estate (station wagon in the USA) to take horse manure from the local stables to my back garden so yes, exactly, a car is a car, and a PC is PC, both are topols and the aesthetics come a long way second, but then I don't own an Apple.

Re:As long as it works

[vwjeff]

who cares what it looks like?

I for one care what my NEW Macbook looks like. I paid a premium for my Mac due to OSX and physical appearance. I understand normal wear but this is not normal wear. If this was due to unclean hands, one would think that the discoloration could be removed with cleaning products. IMO this appears to be a chemical reaction with the MacBook's plastic. Yet another reason to not buy a first generation Mac.

Re:As long as it works

[dsgitl]

Totally. Did you see those pictures? It looks more like a make-up kit than a computer. Who wants nasty brown stains all over their PC -- or anything they own for that matter? Especially after an $1100 investment?

Re:As long as it works

[OldeTimeGeek]

Which is the philosophy of most IBM PC users. If it works, it doesn't need to be pretty.

Really? Have you been to a computer store recently? What a system looks like does seem to be important to people. From candy-colored Apple rip-offs and black Alienware rip-offs to stainless steel and brushed aluminum cases, appearance is more important than it used to be. Even Dells are a bit more stylish. Not to mention case mods like windows, lights or wraps, cables and fans that light up or other stuff that folks use to make their systems look diffent.

The old plain beige cases don't quite make it any more. When the only real difference between systems is "how cool it looks", appearances do matter.

Re:As long as it works

[specific]

Let me finish one of your sentences for you.


"....this is a company that has made it's living on how things look, as well as how things work, their product reliability, and support."


I sell computers. Most pc customers are concerned with a)lowest price, b)hdd size, c)cpu speed, etc..... and still, many of them recognize what's up when shown the Apple option. Those who switch do it because of the software & support. No one has ever bought a mac from me, just because it was pretty.

As for the palm rest discoloration, it's happened on every ibook in the past. It even happens to pc notebooks. You just can't see it as well. It would be nice if Apple would abandon the white cases for notebooks altogether.

Re:As long as it works

[McBainLives]

Oh I dunno. What about the popularity of windows? Does that fit the description of something that "works, but isn't pretty"?

(1) Is it popular, or is it the only choice for most buyers?

(2) Does it really work (well)? Over the years, I've seen my colleagues on the PC side throw up their hands and reformat/reinstall some Windows version much more often than I've had to resort to the (non-destructive) "archive and install," or earlier "clean install" processes. (I'm a Mac user, and I'd probably be a lifelong Mac user if I'd've been born after 1984, but I actually predate the Intel 4004, let alone the Motorola 68000. But I digress...).

(3) "Isn't pretty" is still too much of a compliment. XP is the GUI equivalent of Tammy Faye (Baker, unless she's take on some new last name).

Re:As long as it works

[Anonymous Coward]

#/usr/bin/perl
#killsteveapp.pl

BEGIN {
print "really?\n";
}

while(&isAlive) {
print "who cares what it looks like? ";
}

END {
print "\nMuhahahahahhahaha!\n";
}
#unfortunately, since he dies "only a little bit," end of life is asymptotic
#and may never be reached (in a continuous reality).

Re:As long as it works

[RsG]

(2) Does it really work (well)? Over the years, I've seen my colleagues on the PC side throw up their hands and reformat/reinstall some Windows version much more often than I've had to resort to the (non-destructive) "archive and install," or earlier "clean install" processes. (I'm a Mac user, and I'd probably be a lifelong Mac user if I'd've been born after 1984, but I actually predate the Intel 4004, let alone the Motorola 68000. But I digress...).

I beleive that was my point. I asked a loaded question as to whether windows was something that works, but that isn't pretty, which is what the OP said PC users prefered over mac users. Reread what I posted, you're agreeing with me here :-P

And in any case, my point was more that where the OP said "most IBM PC users prefer", he should instead have said "most hardcore geeks prefer". Most PC users are as likely to prefer form over function as most mac users. The geek community prefers function over form, but we haven't been the majority of PC users for a decade or more.

Re:As long as it works

[t-twisted]

Which is the philosophy of most IBM PC users. If it works, it doesn't need to be pretty.

I thought that was the philosophy of most Linux users!

<ducks and runs>

Re:As long as it works

[Ash-Fox]

i'm sure it would have discoloration as well.

The question is, why do Macs discolor faster than other laptops? Even the black ones are reported to have issues in that area.

Re:As long as it works

[Kadin2048]

Oh yeah I had things like that, little metal cars which changed color when I dropped them in hot water, can I get that on my mac? My friends will be sooo amazed when i'll drop my brand new macbook a tub full of hot water and they see it change color.

I've got a better one: drop your friend's MacBook in a tub of hot water and watch him change color!

Re:As long as it works

[rmadmin]

Paint protecting? WTF? You've never been to small towns in Iowa. (the type that have a sign that says "Population 304", with the 4 crossed out and 3 written in marker) There isn't a car there that doesn't have atleast 50% rust coverage. They still seem to get around just fine in their rust buckets.

Re:As long as it works

[McBainLives]

I'll take your word on it. My primary objective was to troll for "Funny" points using the Tammy Faye analogy.

BTW- I first heard the feather/chicken joke from a bridesmaid as I was escorting her down the aisle at a wedding. Hard to keep a straight face in that context... Since it was a wedding, we had to settle for the feather- all of the chickens had been claimed by the caterer.

Re:As long as it works

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, though, this is a company that has made it's living on how things look. When they tried to put out standard PC-looking beige boxes, their sales went into the toilet. If it isn't pretty, it can't be an Apple product.

I thought Apple invented the beige box. Only they called it platinum.

Re:As long as it works

[Angostura]

There appear to be a number of reports that the discolouration comes off just fine if you clean the machines with alcohol wipes.

Re:As long as it works

[Kadin2048]

I agree with most of your post, but your average PC user really isn't that different from your average mac user in this regard. It's just us hardcore geeks who care more about utility than appearance.

Actually, I'm not even sure that I would agree with this. I think that, in fact, geeks are motivated by appearance and aesthetics as well, it's just a different sense of aesthetics. For example, things which are designed to have (or simulate) a "form follows function" appearance, appeal to a certain technically-oriented segment of the market. It's really no different from preferring the sleek and shiny designs, just different. You can get cases which look as though they're designed just for "performance," but in reality were created by a designer for all the same reasons that an iMac was: to appeal to a certain target market and their aesthetic preferences.

For an example, look at a lot of (non-Apple) rackmount servers. On one hand, many of them look as though they were designed with no aesthetic appeal in mind at all. But I can almost guarantee you that they were, and some (Sun's low-end ones in particular) almost go so far in the "utilitarian" direction that they're obviously designed to look that way, and appeal to someone who thinks they want something that's designed without regard for aesthetics.

Even if you bought a case that was made out of raw, unfinished and riveted sheet metal, it would still be making a statement (sort of like the paint job on a DeLorian). Once marketers realize that there are people out there who are consiously shopping for something that "looks unfinished," they will design finished products to look that way. The end result is that there are virtually no products made in significant quantity which are actually made without some aesthetic choices inherent in their design: even the ones which attempt to be spartan or utilitarian.

Re:As long as it works

[CaptDeuce]

What about the popularity of windows? Does that fit the description of something that "works, but isn't pretty"?

Works? Your Windows works? Mine just lies around the house all day watching TV and eating potato chips. It never washes the dishes -- and laundry? Sheesh! socks and underwear are piled up to here!

As for pretty, well, it should either shave or grow a proper beard. This "grunge" thing is just awful!"

Re:As long as it works

[Anonymous Coward]

It's just us hardcore geeks who care more about utility than appearance.

Actually, not even that. Go look at Alienware's desktops, or look at the cases which sell really well on NewEgg. They're not cute like the Mac Mini, but they're still better looking than your average beige box.

More to the point, if hardcore geeks didn't care about appearance, why would people spend so much time designing themes and backgrounds and iconsets?

Geeks care about appearance just as much as everyone else does. It's just that most of us have a different aesthetic -- for example, I think that the GTK ThinIce theme is awesome, while the default OS X theme is kind of loud and grating. And the people who think OS X looks better just download Aqua themes.

Note: One of the more amusing things about KDE is that Qt 3.2 was technically capable of drawing Aqua widgets on all platforms, but the code was disabled on all platforms other than OS X, and the following disclaimer:

Warning: The QAquaStyle code may not be distributed on any platform other than Mac OS X, or included in any other licensed package, unless explicit permission is granted by Trolltech.

Except that the same website also says this:

Qt Free edition is available for Unix/X11, Macintosh and Linux/embedded... The Qt Free Edition and the Qt/Embedded Free Edition are available under the GPL.

So I'm not sure how they think the QAquaStyle code can't be redistributed...

Re:As long as it works

[be-fan]

If the Mac in question is as aesthetically shoddy as most clone PCs, then why would you drop the extra money on it?

As a Linux user turned Mac user, let me tell you the least of the reasons for my Mac purchases (a PowerMac and a Macbook in the last year) has been asthetics. Yes, they're beautiful machines, but they're also incredibly trouble-free, reliable, and simple to use. My Macs have never let me down at a critical moment. XP machines have, and they've done so repeatedly.

Re:As long as it works

[Anonymous Coward]

There was even a guy who wanted to apply Aerospace 303 protectant, used for rubber and plastic primarily found on automobiles. Now, how safe is it to start putting chemicals on the area where your hands rest, where you'll touch your eye, mouth, (other areas)??? It's either cheap plastic in which case, Apple will respond with a replacement at no cost to the customer or 2. it's just dirty-ass people so wash your hands often, and don't use anything but rubbing alcohol on those parts that need cleaning, keep the automotive chemicals in the car.

Re:As long as it works

[cmacb]

"It would be nice if Apple would abandon the white cases for notebooks altogether."

I've heard beige looks nice.

Re:As long as it works

[fistfullast33l]

No one has ever bought a mac from me, just because it was pretty.

You must be selling Mac SE's then. If you haven't noticed, the entire purpose of Mac is to sell pretty and friendly computers at an expensive price. Yes, they work well and are very good computers, but I very much doubt when your customer's "recognize what's up when shown the Apple option" that the first thing that runs through their mind is "How efficiently I can type my Legal Documents now!" No, the first thing most likely is, "This will look really nice on my Ikea desk."

Re:As long as it works

[Karl Cocknozzle]

Well actually I used my 2 week old estate (station wagon in the USA) to take horse manure from the local stables to my back garden so yes, exactly, a car is a car,

Sheesh, that'd be one stinky ride to soccer practice afterwards! What, you don't have a friend with a pickup truck? They're designed to haul shit! Well, shit in the metaphorical sense, but it would've worked out okay...

Re:As long as it works

[cmacb]

"Well actually I used my 2 week old estate (station wagon in the USA) to take horse manure from the local stables to my back garden so yes, exactly, a car is a car, and a PC is PC, both are topols and the aesthetics come a long way second, but then I don't own an Apple."

You own a smelly station wagon though.

Re:As long as it works

[HTH NE1]

The common term for the color of the platinum case is grey (or gray), but with age and UV exposure they did turn beige. Very few such units haven't turned beige.

Then, with the iMac, they had Jeff Goldblum reterm all the platinum/grey boxes "beige" regardless of who made them.

Re:As long as it works

[RsG]

Now, how safe is it to start putting chemicals on the area where your hands rest, where you'll touch your eye, mouth, (other areas)?

Yeah, curse those horrible chemicals! Do you know how many people die each year from the chemical DHMO? And they put that stuff in soft drinks!

Why can't they make these things out of non-chemicals, like plastic, or rubber? Chemicals are the devil, I say!

(For those without a sarcasm gland, the above is should be taken with a grain of salt. Warning: grains of salt should only be taken oraly.)

Re:As long as it works

[x_MeRLiN_x]

Don't cover up bad odors.. Oust them!

Re:As long as it works

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is the philosophy of most IBM PC users. If it works, it doesn't need to be pretty.

Oh I dunno. What about the popularity of windows? Does that fit the description of something that "works, but isn't pretty"?

No, that is an illustration of the corollary "if it doesn't work, it had better be pretty."

My girlfriend is another case in point.

Re:As long as it works

[m874t232]

Discoloration doesn't happen on the aluminum cases. Metal seems to be a good material for the wrist rests.

Re:As long as it works

[thatguywhoiam]

When they tried to put out standard PC-looking beige boxes, their sales went into the toilet.

And when they put out toilet-looking boxes, their sales went beige.

Re:As long as it works

[billdar]

DHMO kills babies! DHMO has been linked to the growth of E. Coli, and is used in every jar of baby food and formula.

Join the fight against DHMO!

Re:As long as it works

[geobeck]

Which is the philosophy of most IBM PC users. If it works, it doesn't need to be pretty.

...which is why Alienware got so huge. And why PC stores are filled with so many LED case fans, light tubes, and other "bling" that you can't find simple accessories anymore.

The "look at my expensive toy!" syndrome is not limited to Mac users.

However most Mac users are, by definition, more concerned about appearance than their PC counterparts.

Tell me more about this "definition." It doesn't seem to appear anywhere I've looked (not that I've looked very far). Most of the Mac users I know made their choice based on multimedia editing functionality.

Re:As long as it works

[Golias]

The MacBooks are said to discolor a little faster than past systems, although I have a MacBook and have not experienced this problem. (Yet.)

However, from all reports I've seen, the "Mr. Clean Magic Eraser" (that self-desolving cleaning sponge) takes care of the problem in a matter of seconds, so it would appear that this is really just yet another "ZOMG! The car keys and sand in my pocket scratched up my Nano!!!1!" story.

Re:As long as it works

[Golias]

Probably something to do with the surface they chose to use. It has kind of a grainy texture, unlike the smooth surface of most laptop palm rests. I haven't had this discoloring problem on my MacBook, but it is still fairly new.

Overlooked in this story is the fact that many people report that cleaning the smudges off is relatively trivial.

Re:As long as it works

[skwirlmaster]

Are you a Mac user? If not please stop informing us of their philosophy. I know the marketing of Macs in the G3 iMac era was all about looks, but things have changed. Frankly I hear more about usability than i do looks anymore.

I'm not trying to single you out, but it seems that most of the people here are saying the same things, and i doubt they are qualified to speak for the Mac using population. I'm not a user so i'll reserve my judgement.

Re:As long as it works

[conigs]

I'm not sure about the other models, but the palmrest on my 12" PowerBook is plastic, not aluminum. How do I know? Well, for one, it sounds completely different than the rest of the cast when you tap it. Second, the paint is chipped away a little bit and I can see the plastic. Third, I've taken this thing apart twice... it's plastic.

I think the lack of discoloration is because of the type paint itself.

Re:As long as it works

[arth1]

vwjeff (709903) wrote:

I paid a premium for my Mac due to OSX and physical appearance. I understand normal wear but this is not normal wear. If this was due to unclean hands, one would think that the discoloration could be removed with cleaning products.

It is, and it can.
It's the same problem that any whitish plastic faces when being in contact with perspirating body parts for any period of time. The Microsoft Intellimouse has the same "problem", and so do toilet lids, light switches, telephones and any other hard off-white plastic.
It's stained by your hands, and it's time to admit that it's impossible to keep your hands totally clean. Go buy a proper cleaner, use it, and it will become off-white again, as numerous pictures have shown.

--
*Art

Re:As long as it works

[krakelohm]

You heard wrong.

Re:As long as it works

[jargoone]

Writing from my non-infested Windows system, I can tell you that viruses, spyware, and malware are obviously individual cases.

Re:As long as it works

[Anonymous Coward]

That's actually pretty funny. And, on Slashdot, no less. Way to rebel.

Re:As long as it works

[rainman_bc]

It's just us hardcore geeks who care more about utility than appearance.

What a load of crap.

It's hardcore geeks who put Cold Cathode tubes, LED fans, laser cut fan grills and windows in their PC cases.

Re:As long as it works

[RsG]

Care more about utility =! care only about utility. The difference between the two is signifigant.

Geeks care about function first, then form. Many non geeks are the opposite. We'll readily decorate our gaming rigs with LEDs and fancy case art, but what we care about first is the hardware within. A geek will settle for a beige case if what's inside works well, but he will not settle for an alienware box that contains crap parts.

Re:As long as it works

[fatlaces]

Most geeks don't have taste. Add the fat and the smell, and you will see why they masturbate all the time. They do have the arrogance of dismissing things they don't understand. Oh crap, was a I stereotyping?

Re:As long as it works

[format1337]

My laptop is starting to dull where my wrists lay while not typing and while using the touchpad, I am contemplating spraypainting it all in green camoflauge so people would know I was a haxor.

Re:As long as it works

[Anonymous Coward]

That may have been true in the past, but not any more. I bought a macbook to get OSX, because it is an OS that works and is well-designed. I don't have to run Windows Update every month and reboot my computer three times, nor do I have to endure a Windows Genuine Advantage spybot. I even got a disk with my OS on it.

Finally, my macbook was no more expensive than any comparable laptop, such as a Lenova Thinkpad. Feel free to look for a Core Duo laptop with the same features, and you'll find most are hundreds more than the Macbook.

The fact that it looks purty is just icing on the cake.

Re:As long as it works

[marklar1]

What....where'd you come up with this. (about as remarkable as this ill-informed, snide comment being modded "interesting")

Macs have emphasized usability of the OS...and led that charge for ages...I've been a customer since 1984 thank you very much...and at the time, that form factor (which led to the SE) looked better than most PCs out there at the time ... IMHO....But why did I buy it...looking at the alternatives of the time I wanted the GUI, WYSIWYG interface, consistent keyboard/mouse commands throughout apps and OS....and other TECHNICAL reasons.

Ferrari's and Porsche's look better than other cars (to alot of people)...which doesn't mean it was a choice of looks vs. design quality and performance....same here.

The pure speed performance has had it's ups and downs relative to wintel, but the design/usefullness has always been there too.

Just because they appeal in the ads, their packaging, their stores, and their computers to senses other than performance/productivity doesn't mean they ignore it.

Re:As long as it works

[Anonymous Coward]

Because Mac users are whiny, sweaty Steve-Jobs-perfectionist-wannabe little bitches. If they can find a scratch 1/10th the width of a human hair on their little precious, they go ballistic. It's the end of the world. Waaah.

Hey, that was somewhat tongue in cheek, as I own 4 Macs, including one white Macbook. After 4 weeks: no yellow, no whine, no heat problems. It must be defective or something, but it's the best damn notebook I've ever owned.

And if it did have any of those problems? Who fucking cares? As long as there isn't a technical problem with the operation of the thing, I couldn't give a shit. Damn thing just works.

As for the yellowing, I'll bet the affected people have an abnormal pH level in their sweat or something. Probably due to massive caffeine consumption.

Re:As long as it works

[KU_Fletch]

Well, as a Pc user, my immediate reaction is to just get some high gloss spraypaint and cover it up... I feel shame for myself.

Re:As long as it works

[linuxpng]

If the TI Powerbook legacy is any indication, the 2nd generation isn't going to be any better.

Re:As long as it works

[drinkypoo]

Now, how safe is it to start putting chemicals on the area where your hands rest, where you'll touch your eye, mouth, (other areas)???

Well, I don't know about you, but I don't put on a hazmat bunny suit every time I, say, touch the inside of my car. But, I do use Armor All on the interior - and I touch it.

I'd guess that the risk is probably pretty low.

Re:As long as it works

[colmore]

The average PC user doesn't have a damn thing to do with the success of Windows. The home market is just Microsoft's way of further ensuring lock-in at the office, which is where their profits are. Your copy of Windows was an OEM bundle that MS made pennies off of, it's the 10,000 seat licenses down at the office that keep Bill partying with Bono. And does your director if IT purchases give a crap about how pretty the interface is? Nope. This is why Microsoft does eye candy (you have to to be a modern consumer OS) but half-asses it (they aren't really a consumer OS, but have to pretend to be for marketing reasons.)

"It's just us hardcore geeks who care more about utility than appearance."

Smiling as I type this reply on links while my new gentoo system compiles one virtual terminal over.

Re:As long as it works

[fountain09]

Although, after heavy use--think years--the aluminum does start to corrode, making some rather dreadful black spots where it's been in contact with the wrists.

Re:As long as it works

[drinkypoo]

"....this is a company that has made it's living on how things look, as well as how things work, their product reliability, and support."

If you believe that, I've got a big red bridge in Central/Northern California to sell you. The support contract is extra.

Since system 6, and until OSX, Apple was about looks ONLY. PERIOD. MacOS 7 was crap. MacOS 8 was crap. MacOS 9 was slightly more reliable crap, but still CRAP. System 6 was superior to Windows 3.1; With System 7, I changed my mind, because it took longer to boot and crashed a whole hell of a lot more often.

In addition, since the time just before the quadras came out, Apple was the slowest thing around, until the time when the G4 came out. Then the G4 got beat down, and they were on the bottom again, until the G5 came out. Now, they've gone intel and all bets are off, but the point is that for most of their lifetime, Apple has had the SLOWEST computers around.

I've had multiple people tell me that they gave up on Apple specifically because of service. Even today, Apple service is bullshit. If you buy an iPod nano at Best Buy (or similar) and you have problems with it you walk back in and they replace it, usually without asking you any questions besides those about you, for fraud prevention. Try this at an Apple store sometime. Your nano gets shipped back and you wait.

Finally, there are very likely far more people buying Apples because of style than because of substance. There just aren't that many computer nerds out there, per capita. Apple makes their money on style, not how well it works. That doesn't mean it doesn't work well, only that the style is a more signifcant reason to purchase a Mac for most of the people who do so.

Re:As long as it works

[drinkypoo]

But he didn't say flaking off, he just said discoloured. As long as the paint is still there, it's still protecting.

Not true! Or at least, not necessarily so. Paint can have invisible cracks that still permit water to pass through the paint layer and affect the substrate. This is far more likely with weathered paint, which is the primary cause of discoloration. (Staining is #2; grease especially.) The #3 reason for discoloration would probably be damage due to chemicals, such as brake fluid, which destroy paint.

Paint's interesting stuff; since we ditched lacquer (in some states, notably California, it's NEVER legal to spray automotive lacquer professionally AFAIK - though you can do it yourself at home) it's basically all urethane or polyurethane. Either way it's a mostly clear plastic with some pigment dumped into it and mixed very well. Clearcoat is the same stuff as paint, but since it doesn't have any pigment into it (it's only "binder") it doesn't age as fast as paint does - the pigments are what ages. Actually, the pigments typically oxidize. Ever notice that age doesn't discolor white paint? It's made of titanium oxide - it's already oxidized!

Anyway primer protects the metal, paint gives color and sometimes protects primer, if it's single-stage paint. Mostly it's two-stage these days, which means it has a clear coat. In this case, the paint mostly is just there to give color, and give something for the clear to stick to.

Finally, aside from repaired paint, if one layer is cracked, the others probably are too.

Re:As long as it works

[LunaticTippy]

Damn, I'm going to patent a caseless computer with hard drives hanging out of it and a power supply that only fits at a jaunty angle. The ratsnest behind it costs extra! (pile of papers covered with coffee rings - free with purchase)

Re:As long as it works

[drinkypoo]

I agree with most of your post, but your average PC user really isn't that different from your average mac user in this regard. It's just us hardcore geeks who care more about utility than appearance.

Strongly disagree. If appearance were so important, then that PC user would be a Mac user already, having purchased one for the most common reason to do so: they are pretty.

Re:As long as it works

[localman]

Actually there is much evidence that the anodized aluminum wrist rests corrode from contact with some skin. I know because it also happened to me. No, I didn't have any weird chemicals on my hands, nor were my hands dirty, nor did I scratch the surface in any way. I work long hours and my palms may get a little moist against the wristrest. After a few months this type of pitting happened. When I bought my new MacBook Pro I put clear plastic laminate on the wrist rest to protect it and that has worked well so far.

Apple really needs to do a little more research on these issues before releasing new products. The aluminum corrosion problem went on for years and still does, far as I know. Lots of people have been effected, but they haven't done anything about it. Now the MacBooks are proving to be reactive with some people's skin oils as well.

Cheers.

Re:As long as it works

[drinkypoo]

It's hardcore geeks who put Cold Cathode tubes, LED fans, laser cut fan grills and windows in their PC cases.

Uh, no. Those people are the rice boys of the computer world. I mean, not necessarily, but the people who go out and do that compulsively are. I have a couple of LED fans in my PC but they were the same price as the non-LED ones, and I went ahead and got them because my PC is FULL of LEDs; It was the cheapest case that had a decent-capacity power supply.

But anyway, the fact that I have all that crap is coincidence and I haven't added anything to the system (besides the fans, which I needed anyway) to make it light up more. No cold cathodes, no EL wire. I did buy a cold cathode light on sale at Fry's once, and I put it in the back of my nissan and used it for a trunk light for a while. They make really nice ones, but a lot of them are picky about their input voltage. (My existing trunk light had been destroyed...) Anyway that didn't last long.

Regardless, case modders are to computers are rice boys are to cars. Not everyone who does it is a potzer, but most of 'em are.

Re:As long as it works

[drinkypoo]

That's called an estate there? I thought it was a shooting brake.

Re:As long as it works

[ComputerizedYoga]

Just fyi, all it took to scratch a first-revision nano was a moderately soft fabric -- softer than the material that makes up the pockets of most pants would do it. I don't know if that's still the case, but ... it was pretty trivial to scuff up those things. I was pretty surprised seeing just how easy it was to scratch.

Just because there's an easy solution doesn't mean it's not a problem.

Re:As long as it works

[Rosonowski]

The palmrests on my 12" powerbook are very much metal. I have the dents to prove it. Beware of falling bookshelves. Now, getting that panel up to replace the hard drive, that was even worse.

Re:As long as it works

[Golias]

Just fyi, all it took to scratch a first-revision nano was a moderately soft fabric

Oh noes!!!

Just because there's an easy solution doesn't mean it's not a problem.

This is true. There's an easy solution, but it's still a problem.

It's a problem with an easy solution.

Your point?

Re:As long as it works

[tricorn]

Undoubtedly something to do with Intel processors...you'd never see such issues if they'd only stayed with PPC!

Re:As long as it works

[LogicHoleFlaw]

There's no such thing as fairies.

Re:As long as it works

[tricorn]

Price is the most important concern for most people. Not utility, not best utility for price, just price. Oooh, I can get a PC with a printer and a monitor for $399.95, that's what I'm buying.

Re:As long as it works

[heinousjay]

You're an awesome apologist.

Re:As long as it works

[Golias]

You're an awesome apologist.

Okay, I give up. What am I apologizing for?

That I bought a laptop which, reports have it, stains easilly from the oil in people's hands, but can also be cleaned without much effort?

That the poor bastards who bought nano iPods under the delusion that they were indestructible discovered that they can get scratched up?

Would you be happier if I join in the chimes of whiners? Okay, how's this.

When the FUCK are they going to make a music player that does gapless playback? Come on, Apple, how hard can it be? Stop worrying about low-res video and FM add-ons, and get on the stick about this major problem!!!

There. Some nice, perfectly legitimate Apple-bashing. I hope that makes your day a little brighter. Cheers.

Re:As long as it works

[mrraven]

I don't mind a nice looking interface as long as there is no performance penalty. For example I think the clean well rendered interface in Ubuntu Dapper Drake makes using the OS more enjoyable than any other distro I have tried. It's solid, professional looking, and doesn't hurt the eyes in that I'm trying too hard to look like the interface in the Matrix/Minority Report designed by a 14 year old sort of way Linux distros have suffered from in the past. No this isn't a substitute for it's solid Linux underpinnings, but it is a nice usability bonus. Ditto for OS X. And Windows? Lets not go there...

Re:As long as it works

[Anonymous Coward]

Well then, don't go trodding all over some pathetic dilusion, people need these kinds of things to feel like they're really on top of matters. It's important that people have brand loyalty you know, and if that involves making random crap up about competitors 'so be it'...

Re:As long as it works

[mclaincausey]

Actually, the aluminum cases develop little spots and eventually pitting where the acids from your sweat affect the metal. Mine has little tiny black dots, but I've seen cases of serious corrosion from people who are sweaty and acidic and compulsive computer users.

Re:As long as it works

[wildsurf]

Well actually I used my 2 week old estate (station wagon in the USA) to take horse manure from the local stables to my back garden

So much for that new car smell.

Re:As long as it works

[Anonymous Coward]

What about the popularity of windows? Does that fit the description of something that "works, but isn't pretty"?

Heh, well, not everyone is that picky. Clearly a lot of people don't mind "doesn't work and is ugly."

Re:As long as it works

[jdbartlett]

Of course, no one buys Mac JUST because it's pretty! We need to "justify" the expense. You have to read between the lines:

Is OS X more stable? (Does it stay that pretty?)
Is OS X better than Windows? (It's prettier!)
Is it user friendly? (Ooh, eye candy!)
Does it play my music? (I like the way iPod looks.)
Does it play games? (It looks fun.)
Can it connect to a Windows network? (I'm going to look so cool at the office...)
Does it have a wireless card? (...ooh, ooh! Or at a coffee house!)
Does it have a warranty? (I'd hate that pretty screen to get scratched.)
Can it use Microsoft Office? (Office '97 looks nasty on Windows.)
Does it have Intel? (It doesn't have a sticker!)
I hear Macs are only good for design work. (Designers know what looks good.)
I hear Macs are better for musicians. (I'm gunna look like a rock star.)
I hear Macs break easily. (Justify my choice! It looks good!)
Could I test out OS X? (I want to touch it.)
Does it come in black? (Looks are everything.)

Re:As long as it works

[seek31337]

Sorry, whoever owned the heap-of-shit we call a server room I have inherited at my new company would be considered prior... art...

Re:As long as it works

[kabz]

Dude, check the link and scroll down ...

http://www.spodesabode.com/content/article/cardboa rd

I think this guy has prior art.

Re:As long as it works

[ibooklover123]

the most common reason to buy a pc is "because everybody else is doing it" its not that they are in any way better, just more common. So the main reason people buy macs "they are pretty" is still as good or better than the main reason people buy pcs. chillax homes

Re:As long as it works

[Anonymous Coward]

Who cares what it looks like? I do. I just ordered a black MacBook - so hopefully I won't have these problems, but after spending nearly $2,000 on a laptop, it should not turn yellow - even if it works like a champ internally. I know I don't want my laptop to look like I bang away on it while doublefisting cheetos.

Re:As long as it works

[LunaticTippy]

Packing tape? Some kinda red shit? This guy is an amateur.

Duct tape is much more durable. Besides, Prior Art doesn't mean anything anymore. If you can get it patented, you're 95% there. And they'll patent anything.

Dirty

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn you dirty apes!

Or what is Steve Jobs thinking right now Alex.

Had to be said

[Alien54]

"get your filthy hands off my machine!"

we now return your to your regularly scheduled discussion

Re:Had to be said

[Pasz]

"Get your hands of my filthy machine!"

It's the Intel chip forcing the case to turn beige

[Anonymous Coward]

It was always going to happen.

One question...

[iteachgeeks]

do these people smoke? Nicotine will stain white appliances.

Re:One question...

[bravado2112]

That's funny! I never thought of that! 10-to-1 says that exactly what's happening! It's either that people who smoke are causing damage to their computers or alot of people just can't seem to remember to wash their hands after they go to the bathroom!

Re:One question...

[Anonymous Coward]

My experience with an older Titanium powerbook II (circa 2001, 667mhz) is that non smokers with sweaty palms are likely to ruin the shell in a couple years. Quite surprising given the price of the unit. Eventually I replaced the shell (the machine crashed... on the floor) and it happened again. Anyway i run a debian desktop on it, everything works (ethernet port wireless firewire...) except the sound input which i never bothered to test, I think I did a good purchase anyway.

Re:One question...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, if thats true, then they must sweat nicotine thru there hands, seeing how its only on the part of the laptop that palms rest on. I have a great idea, a new drink!, with nicotine!, ill call it, smokers sweat!

Re:One question...

[rtyall]

"News just in, Apple have reported that their products discolour when exposed to sperm. Since the news release every one of the complaints have been mysteriously dropped."

Re:One question...

[ozydingo]

I don't recall seeing similar reports on previous models...are the Intel-based laptops made out of a different material that would allow that explanation or that of user uncleanliness to be plausible?

Re:One question...

[chrismcdirty]

Smokers generally have nicotine stains on their hands and fingers from constantly handling cigarettes.

Re:One question...

[kieran]

My instincts say the culrpit is Cheetos.

Re:One question...

[Anonymous Coward]

Nicotine doesn't stain finishes, it will rub off. I smoke around 1+1/2 packs a day, and yes my white keyboards are yellowed, but it rubs/scrapes/washes right off.

Besides, it takes months and months for smoke and nicotine to start building up, not weeks.

Re:One question...

[Anonymous Coward]

That is the funniest post I've ever read on slashdot.

Re:One question...

[Listen Up]

It's the tar in cigarette smoke that causes the staining. Nicotine is colorless.

And to all of the self-righteous anti-smokers, go to hell. Nobody gives a damn about your over-liberal, over-sensitive whiny asses. If someone wants to smoke, who gives a damn. If it makes them happy and makes their lives work for them, then so be it.

Re:One question...

[mr_matticus]

Who gives a damn? That depends on where they smoke. If they want to smoke in their homes or their cars, that's fine, but if they're smoking on BART or right in front of the entrance to a restaurant, I certainly give a damn and have a right not to be assaulted with a permeating stench and a carcinogenic cloud of smoke. And that doesn't have anything to do with being over-liberal or over-sensitive.

What?

[gowen]

An Apple product whose novel, groovy and stylish exterior wasn't designed with longevity as a prerequisite?

I'm shocked, shocked.

Re:What?

[kesuki]

Well they can't all be built as good as a Terminator.

Re:What?

[oudzeeman]

*looks down at white apple keyboard*

Note to self: stop eating lunch at desk

Re:What?

[Kadin2048]

Actually many Apple products are rather Terminator-esque in their longevity, but, like Ahnold in the movie, they start to look a bit worse for wear in time.

Take for example my old Apple IIc. That sucker still runs fine: shove a 5.25" floppy into it, and it'll happily run. But I doubt anyone who ever sees it now would believe that it was originally white ("Snow White" in fact): based on all the extant models, someone today would probably assume that Apple went through a phase in the 1980s where it produced nothing but bizarre brownish-yellow computers.

Re:What?

[Aqua OS X]

Actually, iBooks / Macbooks have generally been known for being able to take some abuse.

But, hey, rev 1 hardware... what'd ya expect.

Re:What?

[be-fan]

The thing is, the Macbook *was* designed with longevity as a prerequisite. The polycarbonate exterior is there because its durable, doesn't dent under normal use, and hides scratches better than aluminum. The case entirely lacks all the moving parts, flaps, nubbins, etc that inevitibly get lost or break off on many portable devices. The hinge for the LCD is very thick and securely attached. The new keyboard is designed to make it easy to clean out the crap that gets between keyboard keys. The keyboard surface and palm rests are free of grooves and are rubberized, to make it easy to clean just by wiping it off.

If the keyboard discoloration is a real issue, as opposed to a localized problem (mine doesn't show any signs, though I've only had it for a little while), then its an oversight in the design, not a sign that it was designed without regards to durability.

Seriously...

[ryane67]

Just wash your freakin hands, people!

Re:Seriously...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not dirty hands per se. It's the sweat that some people have.

I've heard people say that sweat can be acidic, or that the oils are different for some people. Maybe that's true, maybe not, but I do know that I have to change the plastic watch strap I wear every year or so because it becomes brittle and cracks (other people can get away with the same strap for many years). I've even tried swapping to a silicone strap that is supposed to last a lifetime, and it is already hardening after 18 months.

I also own an iBook, and I can verify that when it hit summer and I was doing a lot of coding, the places where I rested my palms got discoloured very quickly - and it wasn't that my hands were dirty (I wash my hands about 15 times or more a day. Before and after eating, etc.).

These palm rest points get hot, and with some people's sweat and hand oil it just leads to discolouration on the notebook. It comes off with an eraser or the Mr. Clean eraser products, so it isn't damage to the plastic. It's just something that has been transferred to the surface.

Re:Seriously...

[clickclickdrone]

I wash my hands about 15 times or more a day.

I'd say that was far more of a problem than a discoloured Mac. Being *too* clean isn't good for you. You have to expose yourself to a few germs to keep that immune system working well.

Re:Seriously...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've heard people say that sweat can be acidic, or that the oils are different for some people. Maybe that's true, maybe not, but I do know that I have to change the plastic watch strap I wear every year or so because it becomes brittle and cracks (other people can get away with the same strap for many years). I've even tried swapping to a silicone strap that is supposed to last a lifetime, and it is already hardening after 18 months.

Sure, it's the oil that's making your watch straps get crusty and hard. How could we possibly think it was anything else? :)

Re:Seriously...

[Greyfox]

(Apple and PC guy in a men's urinal)
PC Guy: Hi! I'm a PC!
Apple Guy: Hi! I'm an Apple!
(They finish up and the Apple guy goes to wash his hands, the PC guy heads right out)
Apple Guy: (Smugly) Over at Apple they teach us to wash our hands!
PC Guy: Over in PC land they teach us not to piss on our hands!

Re:Seriously...

[Urusai]

It could just be that Mac users are damn dirty hippies.

Re:Seriously...

[Unknown Poltroon]

IN one of my classes for forensic science, they mentioned that somethign like 5-10 percent of the population are "secretors" who secrete small amounts of blood products in their sweat, so that labs could actually get a blood type off a fingerprint. Im wondering if these might be the people who ahve the most problem. I could be wrong on the details about this, the calls was 10 years ago.

Re:Seriously...

[gatesvp]

I've got no mod points, so here's my "post of agreement".

The rubber or silicone nosepads on my new glasses would start "greening" after a few months. Nosepad replacements suffered the same fate. Some of the green actually appeared to be dirt or grime, but even after removing it, the Green would spread to the inside of the nosepad where it couldn't be removed.

I've only know one other person with this strange issue: my father.

IANA Biologist / Chemist, but it seems pretty obvious to me that humans have variations (genetic and dietary) in their sebum secretions. The yellowing Macs are probably the result of these variations. They probably just caught on to a relatively common variation rather than my rare "Green variation".

Re:Seriously...

[DrXym]

I think this more of an excuse than a valid reason. I use a white logitech keyboard. It attracts muck, fluff, hair, dirt etc. and looks filthy. All I have to do to restore its colour to white is wipe it down with a baby wipe. That's it. If the same is not true for the MacBook, people should be seeking a refund.

If Macs are permenantly discoloured after a mere fortnight on the market, it is because Apple blew it. And it is the people who breathlessly bought into the hype and got their MacBook (or MacBook Pro, or iPod Nano, or iPod Mini etc.) on day 0 who are the ones who've been bitten.

Re:Seriously...

[Phrack]

My Powerbook palm areas are pitted from the very thing. Minor annoyance.

I recommend these, anyway.

http://www.marware.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Marware. woa/6/wa/selectedCategory?catalogCatID=218&wosid=V 3bjvugylZ7pnQworJzjP0

Re:Seriously...

[Anonymous Coward]

> Maybe that's true, maybe not, but I do know that I have to change the plastic watch strap I wear every year or so because it becomes brittle and cracks (other people can get away with the same strap for many years). I've even tried swapping to a silicone strap that is supposed to last a lifetime, and it is already hardening after 18 months.

It could also be UV. Ultraviolet light breaks apart the polymer chains in plastics and causes them to become dry, brittle and to crack apart. There are UV-resistant plastics, but I don't know if they use them in watches. Some of that stuff you can use to protect a car's dashboard might help, though, although I've never personally tested that.

Disclaimer: I once got a scholarship from a now-defunct plastics company, so I bothered to learn what ABS stands for and other random stuff about plastic once upon a time.

Re:Seriously...

[zlogic]

Oranges are really acidic (I'm not joking).
I once ate an orange and then put my hands on my keyboard's palm rest (without washing my hands). This resulted in melting of the plastic - not much, but enough to have my fingerprint engraved on the keyboard. And it's not dirt - it's actually plastic shaped as a fingerprint!

Re:Seriously...

[Prog_Burner]

Slightly off-topic, but back when I used to play guitar, a guy that I knew would have to continually wipe down his strings, otherwise they would tarnish and break down over the length of a good session (2 or 3 hours.) That's the only time I've ever seen anything like that, but it wouldn't surprise me if this was the same sort of thing.

Re:Seriously...

[Sentry21]

I've heard people say that sweat can be acidic, or that the oils are different for some people. Maybe that's true, maybe not, but I do know that I have to change the plastic watch strap I wear every year or so because it becomes brittle and cracks (other people can get away with the same strap for many years). I've even tried swapping to a silicone strap that is supposed to last a lifetime, and it is already hardening after 18 months.

The surface of the wrist-rests on my Aluminium Powerbook 12" is severely pitted. When I first got it, there was a slight nick in the wrist-rest on the left side. After six months of use, the area is very obviously dissolving. The right side is fine. I'm told this is because the surface of the aluminium is anodized, but if the surface is scratched, then the oils can get underneath and eat away at the aluminium, as well as eat it out from under the anodization (I assume).

Sad, but true.

don't forget the stinkbooks

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget the smelly iBooks. Yes, the iBooks with the clearish white keys seem to omit an odor after about 6mos to a years use. You do not need to have your nose pressed up against the keys, as it is noticible upon opening the lid in the majority of cases. There's a thread on the Apple discussions board that has been going on since 2002. http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID= 207887&start=0&tstart=0

My iBook had the same problem. So?

[Stick_Fig]

I don't know if this is the case, but I know my old iBook (whose logic board died) got discolored pretty easily around the wristrests.

And I admit it, it's because my paws were dirty as hell.

I bet you the person who posted this to Flickr is just trying to prove to his girlfriend, "See! I'm not the only one! My wristrest isn't dirty because I haven't showered in six years, it's because Apple is crappy! It's just like how I didn't hit my G4 Cube with a sledgehammer, and Apple just sucks at manufacturing!"

Re:My iBook had the same problem. So?

[jimktrains]

I have a white iBook, and the wrist area has gotten discoulored (took somwhere between 6months to a year to be noticable), but it doens't look horrid. I havn't seen the pics of these, but if its the same, it's not big deal. People, your hands are not clean, they never will be. Even washing them will only clean them until you touch somethign or start to release a little sweat or oil that keeps your skin healty...

Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[pebs]

Three computer users, one Windows, one Apple, one Linux go to the restroom. After being done, the Apple user washes his hands and uses a lot of paper towels to dry them. He says: "Apple users are very thorough."

The Windows user washes his hands, takes only one paper towel and uses even the last little bit. He says: "Windows users are not only thorough, but very economical."

Then they look at the Linux user who just walks out of the door, looks back and says: "Linux users don't piss on our hands."

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[Anonymous Coward]

They don't wash their pee-pees either.

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux users don't piss on our hands.

I am confused about our amusement that we are in!

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[isa-kuruption]

Linux users also don't unzip and pull it out, which explain the yellow spots on their tighty-whiteys instead of their laptops.

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[FullMetalAlchemist]

Obviously that is not true.

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[eltonito]

A Linux user using a public restroom with other people in it? There's something fishy about that joke.
Seriously though, this joke is mildly humorous if you assume that most people piss on their hands like a Major League Baseball pitcher. Urine is fairly sterile, but the coliform bacteria that make their way around your nether-regions isn't exactly healthy. That's why we wash our hands!
So, with that in mind, the linux user in the joke is a very disgustingly dirty person whom I hope never has a career in fast food.

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah... and the Linux user is the one dumb enough to not know why we wash our hands after going to the restroom in the first place. Your joke works in reverse...

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[Hillgiant]

ToiletCraft confirms: BSD users don't pee on their hands!

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[DrSbaitso]

I'm never shaking hands with a Linux user again.

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[birge]

Linux users have Linus Torvalds hold their dicks and Richard Stallman ends up covered in piss.

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[jdcook]

Are there any tarballs though?

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[be-fan]

Apparently, there is a way to piss without touching your penis that has eluded me all these years...

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[jandrese]

On the other hand, that Bacteria is literally everywhere. Take a dab of just about any surface you havn't just scrubbed down with Clorox and you'll find colonies of it. Humans have been living with it for a millenia now and we're pretty well adapted to having it in the environment. In high concentrations it can be dangerous, but that's fairly difficult to achieve without actually taking a dump on something.

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[captaincucumber]

There are two types of men: those that wash their hands hands before they piss and those that wash their hands after they piss. Think about it.

Apparently there are also some that don't wash their hands at all. Usually these individuals have careers in food preparation.

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[0xA]

Why is it assumed that the penis is dirty in the first place? Do you wash your hands after touching your leg?

I keep a pretty close eye on my penis, it doesn't come into contact with anything I consider dirty. It is I imagine a lot cleaner than either the tap or door handle in a public washroom. Who knows what kind of filthy things come into contact with those.

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[HuguesT]

Moreover, urine is normally sterile.

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[cptgrudge]

In high concentrations it can be dangerous, but that's fairly difficult to achieve without actually taking a dump on something.

Or someone. YMMV, of course.

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[menace3society]

Evidently they don't wipe either. And people say Linux users never get viruses!

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[burndive]

I assume you don't ever wash your hair unless you trip and your head lands in the dirt.

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[LunaticTippy]

2 types: those that work in a lab, chemical plant, handling chemicals, etc.

Everyone else.

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[NMerriam]

Why is it assumed that the penis is dirty in the first place? Do you wash your hands after touching your leg?

Genitalia are warm and humid and perfect places for flora to grow dramatically faster and in greater quantities than on any other part of the body. This is basic biology.

It's also worth noting you can be carrying any one of dozens of STDs and be asymptomatic. Last time I checked, Gonorrhea of the leg is not a common malady.

And no, you shouldn't grab the door handle to leave the bathroom, use a paper towel if it isn't a push door.

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actual biology -- you know, where you run tests to determine things instead of just guess -- shows that the male genitalia, on average, are much more free of infectuous microorganisms than the hands.

The public health reason for washing your hands after urinating is not so much over concerns that the penis will spread infectious agents to the hands. Rather, it's that for best health, you should fairly frequently wash your hands in any case -- and as long as you're in the restroom, you should take the opportunity. (The restroom needs the capability of washing hands anyway due to the fact that you should definitely do so after defecation.) (And yes, Cecil Adams of the Straight Dope said something different. He's wrong.)

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[wildsurf]

The Windows user washes his hands, takes only one paper towel and uses even the last little bit. He says: "Windows users are not only thorough, but very economical."

And they use both sides of the toilet paper, too.

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[NMerriam]

Actual biology -- you know, where you run tests to determine things instead of just guess -- shows that the male genitalia, on average, are much more free of infectuous microorganisms than the hands.

While factually correct, your comment is pointless. We're not discussing whether or not people's hands are dirty (they are, nobody disagrees), we're talking about whether or not genitals are.

Transient pathogens are the reason we wash our hands, and there are pathogens that live happily on our genitals but not for long on our hands. The point is to wash off those pathogens quickly, rather than waiting 3-6 hours for them to become harmless and in the meantime spreading them around every time we touch something else.

I mean, we all know there is fecal matter on most surfaces we contact, but we still wash our hands after taking a dump because it is more dangerous to have large quantities of fresh, warm and moist fecal matter than the comparatively less active contamination on normal surfaces.

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[PurifyYourMind]

I hate to break it to you, but any close contact with that region and your hands are going to be near fecal bacteria. Urine itself is sterile when it leaves the body.

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[jamie]

The version I heard (fifteen years ago) was with three programmers from different universities, talking about how their students are taught. The first two comments were "when a resource is free, we take advantage of it" and "when a resource is shared, we minimize its use." Same punchline.

Re:Apple user that forgot to wash their hands?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently, there is a way to piss without touching your penis that has eluded me all these years...

So you're the one. Stop touching me!

Yellow and flaky?

[smooth wombat]

Are they sure it is isn't the coating from cheddar cheese snacks that they've been munching on?

If there's a bit of orange then it's probably just the Cheetos.

Re:Yellow and flaky?

[aug24]

I know it's offtopic, but could I just point out the grammatical error in your sig? You should quotate the final 'your', giving:

"You're an asshole if you spell it as 'your'."

Thanks, I feel better now ;-)

Justin.

Re:Yellow and flaky?

[smooth wombat]

Done. Thanks for the correction.

Re:Yellow and flaky?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're probably right. Motherfucker loves Cheetos.

Re:Yellow and flaky?

[cptgrudge]

Also Offtopic, but as I've seen it a few times, I just need to say that I approve of your sig. I hate it when people mess up those words, much like their, there, and they're. Someone I know (native language is English) messes those up all the time. The excuse? "People still understand what I'm trying to say." My response? "But it makes you look like a clueless dumbfuck!"

Re:Yellow and flaky?

[amliebsch]

Another correction: standard grammar dictates that the period goes inside the quotation, e.g.:

The word is you're. As in, "You're an asshole if you spell it as 'your.'"

Also, since you are referring to the word "you're" in the first sentence and not using it for its standard denotation, you really ought to enclose it in quotes.

Re:Yellow and flaky?

[jacksonj04]

No, because it's not a speech quotation (" ") but instead a referencing quotation (' '). You put the full stop inside for speech, as in:

I said "Learn your grammar rules."

But his usage for a referencing quotation (Denoted by single quotes) makes it fine, for example:

Many people would call this post 'anal retentive'.

Re:Yellow and flaky?

[nytes]

I've developed a habit of deliberately defying that rule. The reason is that I write a lot of technical documentation that gives instructions to (not too computer literate) computer users. Often times the instructions consist of statements like

Using explorer, go to the directory called "My documents".

If I put a period inside the quotes, it's possible the user will expect to see (or type, if I'm giving them a command to type) the period in the filename.

Re:Yellow and flaky?

[NMerriam]

Whether the period goes inside or outside the quote has more to do with geography than grammar. British English doesn't have the bad habit of putting extra punctuation inside quotation marks that American English does.

Re:Yellow and flaky?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ha HA! pwned!

The intel saga?

[Anonymous Coward]

What does Intel have to do with the finish flaking off?

plastics

[Anonymous Coward]

it looks like the dye on top of greyish plastic rubbing off.
i see it on grey/silver mice/keyboards alot. but usually it takes several years of HEAVY use to show. not weeks or months...

apple just picked a crappy plastic and dye formula.

Re:plastics

[LnxAddct]

No, this stuff comes off with nail polish remover, and there are a few other solutions too. Some people just have dirty hands, or well actually its acidic like sweat. The fact that it comes off shows that it is not a defect with the product. I've seen people with sweaty hands mess up TV remotes and game controllers too. If you ask me, it's kind of disgusting, but apparently it is natural and they can't do anything about it.
Regards,
Steve

Re:plastics

[Anonymous Coward]

Non-acetone nail polish remover. We don't want people with melty macbooks.

it's not a new issue

[cultrhetor]

I have an iBook G4 - within 2 weeks, the palm rests were discolored. The oils in the hands - dirty or clean - will rub into any white surface and discolor it. A chemist friend of mine tells me that the same will happen with a sheet of typing paper, given several hours a day in contact with human skin. It's the reason that white shirts turn yellowish as well - until bleached (but don't try to bleach your computer). The oil from human hands is corrosive as hell - if you visit a national park with caverns, they inform you that touching the formations with your hand will STOP growth for something like six thousand years. My advice? Deal with it - I stopped caring about the marks when I realized that I still had a damn good machine.

Re:it's not a new issue

[Ford Prefect]

I used an iBook G4 almost daily for two years, and its surfaces stayed the colours they started off as being. Okay, some of the letters on the keys wore off and the track-pad got a bit shiny, but otherwise things stayed unchanged.

Tip? Wash hands occasionally. :-)

Re:it's not a new issue

[Bombula]

Well I have a white guitar that is coming on 15 years old, and it certainly isn't yellowing. The secret? Lacquer. The underlying paint is probably titantium dioxide based, which stays brilliant white practically forever (as in artist's oil paint, titanium white permanence = 5). Lacquered objects, like my guitar, can take a beating and just be cleaned in any of the usual ways. There are lots of other ways to coat things these days, like powder-coatings (baked on) and anodizing/plating, especially if you're coating metal (a wooden guitar is harder). Sounds to me like Apple either just didn't bother to put a decent coating on, or used a white pigment (maybe like zinc dioxide?) that yellows with exposure.

Re:it's not a new issue

[cultrhetor]

I teach at an ENORMOUS university... washing one's hands religiously keeps one from being sick all the time. Granted - some of the yellowing came after the birth of my daughter... It's hard to wash frequently enough when the gifted messmakers that we call infants are feeling their wheaties. ;-)

Re:it's not a new issue

[dizman]

The way I understand it, some people have extremely corrosive (acidic) oils, and others don't. I mean, it is all corrosive to a point, but much more so for some people. (I'm on my shiny new macbook now, hoping for the best)

Re:it's not a new issue

[HairyCanary]

I would buy that. When I was in the military, there were some people whose sweat would turn their brown t-shirts orange. Not sure why, though, but it seems reasonable to suspect those people were more corrosive ;-).

Re:it's not a new issue

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh. I've had this trouble with my ibook G4. But reading what you've said here I realise - I've also had it with music scores. Running through intensive rehearsals seasons that might be eight hours a day for a week your hands get a lot of contact with the score :)

Re:it's not a new issue

[Khyber]

Having worked at Apple, let me give you the solution. non-acetone nail polish remover will clean that crap up really good, maybe not perfect but damned close. If you use Acetone, enjoy watching your plastic case melt.

Re:it's not a new issue

[MightyYar]

Human chemistry must vary person-to-person - my iBook is 5 months old and has no discoloration near the trackpad.

Re:it's not a new issue

[arudloff]

I'm on my ibook close to 15 hours a day.

Hasn't happened here.

Re:it's not a new issue

[Red Flayer]

While your post is mostly spot-on, just wanted to clear this up:

"It's the reason that white shirts turn yellowish as well - until bleached (but don't try to bleach your computer)."

White shirts that turn yellowish do so for a couple reasons, and human sweat is only a small portion of it. Yellow spots under the pits? That's due more to the aluminum (aluminium to those who prefer) salts in your antiperspirant than to body oils -- though people who do not use antiperspirant will notice browning from oils, just at a slower pace). Ring around the collar? Largely due from fatty acids in naturally occurring sebum (oil) from the hair follicles. Generally yellowing of the entire shirt? Typically due to the effect of detergents and hot water in the wash.

In re: bleaching of white shirts -- don't do it without checking the care tag! Bleach will often make white shirts MORE yellow, depending on the materials used in the shirt.

Re:it's not a new issue

[DrXym]

The oils in the hands - dirty or clean - will rub into any white surface and discolor it.

I've used plenty of white / cream keyboards for years and they get mucky but any discolouration is as easy to remove as scratching it with a nail or rubbing it down with a wet wipe. If Apple laptops are getting permenantly stained, perhaps people should be getting angry with Apple for producing crap laptops that can't even last a few weeks without getting marked.

Apple proponents harp on about the "quality" of their products, but the litany of build quality issues that accompany each release would suggest otherwise.

Re:it's not a new issue

[timbck2]

iBook != MacBook.

The plastics are different - they look different, they feel different. I owned an iBook G4 and used it for years, with no discoloration. I've had my MacBook for 3 weeks, and it's developing faint yellowish "stains" on the palm rest that won't wash off. I'm a very clean person, a non-smoker, I wash my hands frequently, and this isn't dirt or tar from cigarette smoking (as a few people on the discussion forums have erroneously concluded). It's some kind of chemical reaction with the natural oils in my hands and the particular plastics used in the MacBook.

Re:it's not a new issue

[Chazmyrr]

It wasn't their sweat. It was the combination of their detergent and the shirt. Not all of the shirts are the same material from the same manufacturer.

A lot of the newer shirts turn purple instead of orange.

Re:it's not a new issue

[McBainLives]

I carried a G3 iBook for two years of heavy use. Never saw anything that a little alcohol couldn't fix. Try two shots of Wild Turkey- it'll look fine...

You know, the government spent a long time testing those new dollar coins to find an alloy that would keep its shine. It didn't work. Nothing that gets used stays clean. Probably some sort of entropy thing.

Re:it's not a new issue

[Ash-Fox]

I've been on my HP laptop for a few years, usually around 15 hours a day too. Hasn't happened here.

Re:it's not a new issue

[cyfer2000]

San Diego Plastics, Inc. gives some recommendation about cleaning and removing scratch from polycarbonate, hope it could be useful. Just a quick google.

Re:it's not a new issue

[rbanzai]

I have an iBook G4 I've been using as my primary home machine since 2003.

No discoloration. Not even a little bit.

Re:it's not a new issue

[nexcomlink]

HA! Trust me I know about Acetone from experience!

The case quickly flaked up and burned with marks all over.

Re:it's not a new issue

[cl0r0x70]

Sorry, but I doubt you play your guitar anywhere nearly as often as most people use their computers, and even if you did, your hands don't rest constantly on the same spots.

The guitarist in my band (the-outside.com) has a white Les Paul, and with only several hours/week over a period of a few years, it discolors. Have you ever seen the state a professional guitarists finish gets after a few years? I guarantee there's discoloration and wear in the spots where their hands rest. They'll tell you it adds to the "feel."

Now imagine that times 10 as somebody logs 20 hours/week at the MacBook with their hands always in the same place. . . .

Re:it's not a new issue

[mcdermd]

A 50/50 mix of Acetone and 99% Isopropyl Alcohol works fine as a cleaner without any harm to plastics - even clear plastics. It works wonders for removing ancient goos.

Re:it's not a new issue

[gyrogeerloose]

Never saw anything that a little alcohol couldn't fix. Try two shots of Wild Turkey- it'll look fine...

Should that be applied onto the computer or into the user?

Re:it's not a new issue

[AEton]

Reports are that this works very well for iBooks and poorly or not at all for Macbooks.

Re:it's not a new issue

[Anonymous Coward]

The oil from human hands is corrosive as hell
damn you. No more self pleasuring for me...

Re:it's not a new issue

[Professor_UNIX]

I have an iBook G3 and it's going on 4 years now and it has no discoloration. I'm not arguing with you about it because I've see a coworker's iBook G4 and it's filthy on the handrests, but I haven't experienced that with my G3. Maybe I'm just super-compulsive at washing my hands.

Re:it's not a new issue

[Professor_UNIX]

The way I understand it, some people have extremely corrosive (acidic) oils, and others don't.

That would explain the Powerbook G4 (TiBook? It has a black keyboard and is 1 GHz) I inherited. Half the trackpad is so smooth that my finger doesn't even slide over it smoothly anymore without sticking... almost like someone wore down the non-stick coating over it.

Re:it's not a new issue

[McBainLives]

If you really need to know that, try both. And sign the liability waiver below...

Re:it's not a new issue

[Listen Up]

Your chemist friend is mostly correct, it depends on the individual person's chemistry and skin oils, and the material that is being exposed. My fiancee has used her iBook for years without a single stain or problem whatsoever. I have used a PC laptop (grey and black plastic) for years without any stains or problems whatsoever and now my MacBook Pro has no problems either. Personally, I believe these discoloring cases are very specific to the users and very localized.

Re:it's not a new issue

[Bombula]

Wear, yes. Discoloration, not necessarily. I have seen a few guitars that get so much use that the lacquer on the neck is worn away, but I've never seen any guitar with the lacquer worn through under the strumming forearm (the area around or under a pick-guard doesn't count - picks go right through lacquer, which is the whole point of having a guard).

The discoloration comes from pigment aging. It has nothing to do with wear or skin contact, since the pigment on your average guitar is sitting under 7 layers of lacquer that are in total over 1mm thick.

So what you're saying would be like claiming that handling a bottle of milk enough will turn the milk yellow due to wear and skin contact. Um, no. The discoloration occurs for entirely unrelated reasons. Assuming he cleans it once in a while so we're not just talking about a residue build-up, your guitarist's Les Paul must use a pigment that doesn't maintain its brilliance.

Another example of the same are surfboards. They start out bright white, but after a few months in the sun they're yellow. That has nothing to do with wear and skin contact (which I guarantee you is more intense on a surfboard than on any laptop), again because of a lacquer coating. The discoloration happens because the foam yellows with UV exposure.

Re:it's not a new issue

[Socket Scientist]

Human chemistry must vary person-to-person - my iBook is 5 months old and has no discoloration near the trackpad.

Bingo! Every year for three years running, my wife and I each bought a new iBook. When we sold the year-old machines, the ones I used looked like new ... but all three of hers had discoloured palm rests. She probably washes her hands more often than I do, so I've always assumed it's caused by natural variations in the composition of our sweat.

Re:it's not a new issue

[MightyYar]

Because they actually find a woman and get married?

Re:it's not a new issue

[ksheff]

or maybe they should just stop bitching about about what a used machine looks like. I like Macs, but damn many of their customers act as if how the computer looks is more important that how it's used.

Re:it's not a new issue

[DrXym]

I think its legitimate to complain that a machine you've just bought is stained yellow within a few weeks of getting it. Though anyone foolish enough to buy any consumer electronics the very second it appears is asking for it to some extent. Some Mac / iPod seem to suffer it as much as console gamers - their brain is overwhelmed by the hype and they can't help themselves. Hence we see them complaining of yellowing keyboards, overheating laptops, scratchy fascias, broken earjacks etc. Cooler heads wait and see - at worst it means a few weeks or months of using something else - something else which probably doesn't even need replacing immediately anyway.

mine is clean still

[boomerny]

I got my Macbook the day they were released and use it daily, and it still looks new. I think these people complaining just have grimy hands.

Re:mine is clean still

[Anonymous Coward]

Mine is yellow...so are my fingertips. Smokers should forfeit all rights to complain.

white and sticky

[Anonymous Coward]

mine's milk-white and sticky, cuz I didn't wash my hand after... hum ha hum

Cleaning Solution

[StacyWebb]

non-acetone nail polish remover //works on white iBook //Not tested on Powerbook

Black MacBook

[vjmurphy]

So, I guess that extra $150 for the black version seems like a good deal now.

Not surprised

[Nick Fury]

I bought one of the first gen 15.4 Macbook Pros and I have the damn whining noise (no it's not Jobs, myself or anyone else in the room... I've checked). Apple needs to do better testing with these machines before shipping. The problem is that they are to secretive about their designs and won't allow intensive testing. Good luck to those affected and getting Apple to admit they fucked up. They sure won't do it for me. My suggestion is to avoid the so called 'genius bar' at their retail stores. Some of them can be nice and helpful as well as knowledgable but others are just asshats who have no business working tech support, IMHO.

Re:Not surprised

[Ash-Fox]

Good luck to those affected and getting Apple to admit they fucked up.

They do it in secret!

Just like everything else Apple does.

A flavor for everyone it seems

[thallgren]

For the iPod carrying running persons there's the fresh white MacBook.

For the cool designers there's the black MacBook.

For the party-party people there's now the new Nicotine-yellow colored MacBook. :)

They're not alone

[dmjones500]

I've had these problems for years on my PC. Sticky keyboards, strange streaks across the monitor, bad odours eminating from my dvd drive...

I just put it down to loneliness...

Great news!

[squiggleslash]

This new development means that, finally, it's possible to run Mac OS X legally on a Beige-box PC.

Re:Great news!

[ppc_digger]

You could have done it for years on a beige G3.

Re:Great news!

[Anonymous Coward]

What part of "on a PC" did you miss?

G3 != PC, when PC is taken to mean "IBM compatible x86 Personal Computer" in the conventional sense.

Re:Great news!

[ppc_digger]

Oh, I thought PC was for Personal Computer. Now I know that PC = ICXPC.

Re:Great news!

[squiggleslash]

FYI: I nearly decided to handicap my joke by overwording it for people like yourself, but I decided against it since even the average Mac user compares Macs to PCs, or "Peecees" as some hilariously render it (Oh My God! How funny! That's almost as good as "Crapintosh")

Personal Computer is personal computer. PC is short for "IBM PC compatible or direct descendant." That's the way it works. If you don't like that, take it up with God or something.

Cleaning agents.

[Jerk City Troll]

Among the remedies tried has been the popular iKlean line of products, Windex and even the Mr. Clean Magic Eraser all with different degrees of success.

Come on, we all know that would never work.

So...?

[AstrumPreliator]

My friend has had a Dell laptop for a little over a year now and the hand rests have gone from a dark grey to a light grey. Why aren't we complaining to Dell about that?

News flash, when you use something there's this phenomena that we call "wear and tear". Nothing will stay new forever, get over it.

Re:So...?

[Kranfer]

wear and tear should not occur in the not so distant future after purchase. I have had an HP laptop for 2 years and have no discoloration on any of the plastic pieces, because the color goes all the way through the plastic, making wear and tear not so relavant on it. But if I just purchased a laptop a few months prior, damn straight I would Complaint about it.

Re:So...?

[Ash-Fox]

> My friend has had a Dell laptop for a little over a year now and the hand rests have gone from a dark grey to a light grey. Why aren't we complaining to Dell about that?

That wasn't under three weeks first of all. Plus, here I am typing on a HP laptop that I've had, hell knows how many years. It's been abused a lot. The only ware I see is one of the sides that scrapes against the case it's in. Even then the scrapes didn't become visible until a year or so later.

Re:So...?

[AstrumPreliator]

The article is somewhat vague as to the extent of the problem. I mean is absolutely everyone experiencing this or just a small few? If it's just a small few then it could be a lot of things, from cleanliness, body chemistry, possibly heat, or even how and how frequently they use their macbooks. Somehow I doubt everyone is experiencing this problem but I could be wrong. If it is just a small subset of the owners then I don't think blaming apple is all that intelligent.

As a side note my friend's laptop discolored within the first month. My Logitech MX700 mouse also discolored within the first month but I played a lot of games on it. I don't blame either company.

Re:So...?

[AstrumPreliator]

Sorry, when did I mention the timeframe at which it discolored? I just said he owned it for a year. The discoloration happened within the first month. The keys also faded after about 6 months.

Re:So...?

[Ash-Fox]

That's a crappy keyboard. Although I must say, I don't find a keyboard getting discolored annoying as much as a laptop (since it's cheap to replace such crappy keyboard, a laptop isn't).

Re:So...?

[larkost]

This has been floating around the mac lists for a few weeks now, and it really does sound like it is mostly from one person, as the description used in all of the articles is almost word-for-word the same.

Hmm

[thelonestranger]

I guess these Apple users REALLY love their new machines, they should probably wipe them off afterwards if they want to avoid any unsightly embarassing stains, that or use a tissue in the first place.

Re:Hmm

[Matey-O]

[chapelle]I don't know what they make the keys out of, but it's non-stick![chapell]

http://media.putfile.com/s-Show---Apple-Switch-Spo of-1

Not new to the apple laptops...

[Kranfer]

From my experience with the Ibooks and Powerbooks, they all seem to have discoloration issues usually a few months after purchase. Personally this would annoy me to no end. I would bring it back and demand a new plastic piece be installed on the computer. I love apple, but it seems their plastic parts are kinda cheesey. But I would do this with anything that I buy, even as an above commentator mentioned, if this happened on a car, it would still get me from point to to point B, but I would be seriously disturbed. Apple should fix it for free in my opinion.

Re:Not new to the apple laptops...

[cshake]

That isn't really apple's fault that your skin oils discolor their plastic.

Have you ever seen a well used mouse where there is a buildup of brownish stuff above where your fingers usually rest? That's dead skin.
Ever looked at a well used keyboard and seen brownish residue, or yellowish stains on the edges of keys? My 5 year old HP white keyboard has what almost looks like mcdonalds arches across the top of the spacebar and a halo around the arrow keys - it's where the skin gets rubbed off to, but isn't a place where I continually rub against with my fingers to keep it clean looking.

Just have to get used to it.

Re:Not new to the apple laptops...

[joel8x]

Its not all - it depends on the user. I have a 12" powerbook and I've used it daily (I nearly run my whole business off of it during the day) for 3 years and there is no discoloration at all. I also periodically clean it to avoid those nasty problems. Go into any office and you'll always see a few people whose keyboards look like they've been through hell and back, while others who have the same exact keyboard and it look almost new. Its all about personal hygiene folks - some people are sweaty and/or slobs!

You also hear about these kind of complaints from Apple users because a lot of them (us) are finicky and obsessive to say the least. The majority of Dell owners could care less because their laptops are a means to an end, while Apple users had to seek out their "precious" machine and made a conscious decision to go with Apple's products as opposed to following the majority of computer users out there. Many Apple users are to their hardware as many Linux users are to their software - they are a tad extremest in their opinions and like to be heard.

Dirty hands...or natural skin oil problems...

[thebdj]

I have a Dell laptop that I have owned now for about 18 months. The grey finish has been darker where it was worn away leaving a dark grey appearance. The problem also has translated to some of my keys, though I have not begun to lose letters off the keyboard as I have some desktop keyboards in the past. You can see this very clearly on my spacebar since i tend to rest my left thumb on the button at all times. This leads to a space about 1" or so wide that looks shiny/unfinished compared to the rest of the spacebar.

I know the reason for my having this problem is somewhat related to genetics and possibly diet. My family (on my dad's side) has a history of what I can only term high sebum production. These oils (possibly combined with sweat) make for a fairly damaging mix on devices, especially plastics which just seem to absorb them. It is a problem I have experienced with many devices, including a desktop keyboard that began to lose the letters from constant use and an old Intellimouse explorer that is much darker near the area where my palm rests.

This could be the problem in this case, since Sebum tends to be yellow-to-orange in color, it does make up part of ear wax to give you an idea. Of course, the easy way to test if this truly is a problem with the design or simply the ill effects of the human bodies natural excretions would be to use the MacBook with external keyboards and mice only and see if one discolors anyway. I really think you are going to have a hard time convincing anyone, especially if you decide to attempt a suit (which always seems like a common threat).

Re:Dirty hands...or natural skin oil problems...

[Anonymous Coward]

Exact same for me. Theres a 1" spot on my space bar where the finish has been worn off and it is just shiny now.

Admittedly this keyboard has been going for 2 years now.

Still, it doesn't make any difference to me and I think it's still the nicest combo set money can (or can't as the case is now) buy. Logitech Cordless Duo MX. Why did they give up selling nice wireless sets after this one ?!?

Re:Dirty hands...or natural skin oil problems...

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh ick. I can just imagine your date (I'm being generous here) rushing home to wash all your excreted Sebum off of her...

Re:Dirty hands...or natural skin oil problems...

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think the darkening on the greyish metallic Dell notebooks is due to the paint getting worn away. On my old D800, the palmrest turned dark on a single hot summer day, after I had finally removed the plastic film that I kept on it to prevent exactly that. The D810 I'm using now has large spots on the palmrest that are significantly darker than the plastic underneath, as can easily be seen by comparison with the underside of the spare palmrest I keep around. Additionally, the dark spots still have the metallic effect on them - a collegue's notebook is so worn that the lighter plastic is visible on the front edges, minus the metallic of course.

With the Dell Inspiron 8100 I had before, the silver, removable handrests turned dark as well, and before I turned that notebook over to another colleague, I tried cleaning them, and I actually had to strip off all the silver paint to remove those spots.

With keys of the keyboard - especially the space key - and the touchpad, it's a different matter. You can actually see them loose the rough texture of the surface and turn blank.

Re:Dirty hands...or natural skin oil problems...

[frilledren]

I think he's got a good point- as far as the discoloration is a 'manufacturing defect' I'm also not on board yet. If it could be shown that apple's laptops exhibited disproportionately higher discoloration when compared with other light-colored laptops, then maybe it would be a different story. I presume there was a reason why textured beige was chosen as the typical computer casing as opposed to flat white- it simply hides cosmetic marring associated with typical use. Moreover, it's not limited to laptops:
white collar vs. blue collar (sebum strikes again!)
white cars vs black cars
etc...

Re:Dirty hands...or natural skin oil problems...

[jayloden]

I have the same problem on my Dell laptop that I was given by the company I work for, and I've only had it since midway through February. After maybe two months of use the thing had already completely discolored where my hands rest on the palmrest.

By contrast, I have an IBM laptop with a lightly textured plastic top (instead of a smooth palmrest) which I've owned for something like a year and it hasn't discolored or shown any signs of wear at all.

Frankly I think the bottom line is that anything smooth plastic is going to get worn down, and if it's white, it's going to look dirty too. It's not rocket science or necessarily bad manufacture, it's just a fact of life/chemistry/physics. Admittedly, it wouldn't be the first thing I'd have thought of when picking out a laptop, but after my experience will Dell I'll certainly be thinking about it now. I don't blame Apple per se, but I can definitely sympathize with people who buy a stylish new piece of gear and watch it turn nasty. I bought one of the black video iPods and it sucked watching it collect scratches across the face, but that's also a fact of life with something you carry around constantly...

Clean it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wash your f* hands. It's white. You sweat and leave your grease everywhere.

Spray some f* Windex on your Macbook and whipe it clean with a proper cleaning cloth. OMFG. Clean.
Same problem as with white iBooks, except it was less visible coz they were gray around the palm area

People can be so dumb.

Re:Clean it?

[Ash-Fox]

Spray some f* Windex on your Macbook and whipe it clean with a proper cleaning cloth.

RTFA! From the Article:

Among the remedies tried has been the popular iKlean line of products, Windex and even the Mr. Clean Magic Eraser all with different degrees of success.

For those of you who want more information on this matter, you can find it here.

What does this have to do with intel?

[gboss]

From the summary: "Is this a case of just dirty hands or could it be another problem in Apple's new Intel saga?" Other than the computers in question having "Intel Inside," how does this relate to Intel? Then again, aren't Intel processors known for causing case discoloration? Apple should've known and used AMD instead. . .

Re:What does this have to do with intel?

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously, Apple is a god we should all worship. If they had not corrupted their machinery by including the same hardware that can be found in a lowly Windows machine, they would not be having these unsightly discoloration issues.

Re:What does this have to do with intel?

[Anonymous Coward]

how does this relate to Intel? Then again, aren't Intel processors known for causing case discoloration?

It's the Curse of Intel. Some Mac fanbois have become so brainwashed into believing Intel sucks (The Megahurtz Myth) and PowerPC rules (World's First Desktop Supercomputer, Virginia Tech Cluster), that they still believe Apple made a monumental mistake by switching to Intel.

Not so sure

[Zaphod2016]

I just got one of these, so did my fiance. Mine has yellow stains around the mouse area, hers still looks brand new. Did I get a defective unit? I don't think so.

I use my laptop 18 hours a day, and smoke more often than I should (nicotine rules/sucks). She washes her hands every 15 minutes and uses her laptop about an hour a day. I am no detective, but I'm pretty sure you don't have to be to figure out what's going on here.

The whine? Over heating? Not enough RAM? check check and check. Turning yellow? WASH YOUR HANDS, then complain. Stop being distracting- Apple has *real* issues to fix.

Re:Not so sure

[Anonymous Coward]

Washes her hands EVERY 15 minutes?

Whew, talk about obsessive cleanliness...

Re:Not so sure

[Horatio_Hellpop]

// use my laptop 18 hours a day,//

heh ... with your upcoming nuptials, that figure is sure to decrease. (Mac)Book it.

Re:Not so sure

[Zaphod2016]

She's an RN. Trust me when I say, if you ever show up as her patient, you'll be glad she's a bit nutty for cleanliness.

Dirty Hands

[giminy]

I've owned an ibook g4 for a long time (~3 years now). It has the same kind of discoloration. Before that, I owned an ibook g3. Same 'problem'. The problem stems from dirty-handed programmers -- I would spend 12-hour coding sessions on my ibooks, eating, drinking, etc all the while. I managed to 'wash' my g3 with dish soap and a rough dish washing pad (be careful). It scratched up the area around the palm wrests a little bit, but made them look white again, at least. Jury is still out on whether it was worth it.

The short of it is, if we buy something that's bright white, be it a car, a shirt, or a computer, we should have a reasonable expectation that it will get dirty.

Imagine if we all whined that our white dress shirts were defective because they yellowed around the collar?

This isn't really an apple-can-do-no-wrong post, but if you want to keep your 'book white, you might try some plastic skin in the affected areas...

Apple Marketing 101

[layer3switch]

You can't keep your dirty hands off your MacBook Pro, you make your laptop blush.

Think Dirty - *blush*

The funny thing is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Whenever these "major issues with Apple Products" happen, nobody ever calls about them. They just post pictures on Flickr and whine on blogs and discussion boards.

I've never heard a single person call about discoloration, processor whine, mooing, or any of these "big issues". It's mostly "how do I hook this printer up?"

KISS Solution...

[celotil]

I'm surprised that no-one's suggested the most obvious solution - clear film.

Just buy some Contact or some other sort of plastic clear film, cut it to shape - wrist area, trackpad, trackpad button, maybe even the keys too if you like - and thoroughly clean the surface where you're going to apply it, then stick the clear film there.

What's Contact cost these days? $2 a roll?

That should stop the oil and sweat screwing with the finish, and if you apply it to the keys too, it'll stop that fading that may happen to the letters as well - like my keyboard at the moment with missing A, S, D, E, and other letters faded visibly.

Re:KISS Solution...

[Ruud Althuizen]

That should stop the oil and sweat screwing with the finish, and if you apply it to the keys too, it'll stop that fading that may happen to the letters as well - like my keyboard at the moment with missing A, S, D, E, and other letters faded visibly.

Don't you mean A, S, D, W? That at least is the combo that says the most to me.

Re:KISS Solution...

[celotil]

He he, no, I do more typing on this keyboard than playing games, so E is very faded just from that, while A, S, and D are faded partially from games but mainly from normal use. W is actually very clear and legible still, but that's because the few games I play require the holding of the W key, not continual tapping. :)

Re:KISS Solution...

[rehtonAesoohC]

Yes, and the proper nerdular technical term would be WASD.

Why every other laptop in the world is black

[techstar25]

This explains why every other (ie. Wintel) laptop in the world is BLACK or SILVER. It's because WE HAVE DIRTY HANDS! Apparently computer makers know that we rest our dirty hands on the machine when we use it and so they make the cases black so we can't see the dirt build up. Should we be surprised that something WHITE shows dirt? Didn't we learn this in kindergarten when our white t-shirt looked so much dirtier than our black t-shirt? I can't say I'm surprised.

My iBook discolors as well

[MyNameIsEarl]

It is a WHITE computer, not beige, not black, makes you wonder though, were computers made beige so people wouldn't notice the sweaty yellow stains or smokey yellow stains. Anyways I use a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser and it gets my iBook as pure as the driven snow again.

Nintendo DS Lite

[gulfan]

The same thing happens to my brand new Nintendo DS Lite. It's white, just as if it were an Apple product and after days of use, the L and R button are yellow, as are the buttons. Let's just face it, us geek's aren't the most sanitary people or there's some design flaws with white.

I've read that if you use one of those magic white eraser things, you can remove the yellowing.

Apple on the outside ...

[willtsmith]

Apple on the outside ... bannana computer on the inside. The Intel Mac is showing it's true colors ;-)

My Gateway laptop has the same thing

[DoorFrame]

I just assumed it was from resting my hands in the same place over and over and over again. Some dirt is bound to rub off on the light grey plastic. Is it not normal?

Spot Bleeding

[XxtraLarGe]

This reminds me of an old SNL sketch with Dan Aykroyd. He was talking about a new phenomenon called "Spot Bleeding Syndrome", and how was suffering from it, and that nobody is doing anything about it. Then somebody (Jane Curtain?) asks him "Is that a new shirt?" and he replies "yes." As it turns out, he wasn't removing the pins from his shirts :-D

Anyways, it's common sense people. If you're going to use a computer after you eat, WASH YOUR HANDS--ESPECIALLY IF IT'S CHEETOS!!!

Yellow MacBooks!

[Anonymous Coward]

... also available here: http://www.colorwarepc.com/products/select_mb_blac k.aspx?configid=1227

Colored

[dargaud]

white discoloring to yellow ?!? Shouldn't it be coloring ?

Re:Colored

[tedpearson]

White is the presence of all colors, thus the only way to turn white to yellow is to remove some of one color. Like blue.

Re:Colored

[ABoerma]

White's made out of light of all sorts of frequencies, ie. an amalgam of colours. Yellow's just yellow. Please go back to optics 101.

Re:Colored

[amliebsch]

That's true for light, not for pigments.

Re:Colored

[Anonymous Coward]

[Voice=Dr. Nick] Discoloring means coloring? What a Country! [/voice]

Nope

[Khyber]

The black tends to flake off on those laptops. It's a cheap paint.

Re:Nope

[chasingporsches]

where did you hear about this? i have a black macbook, and the paint doesn't feel in the slightest like it's going to chip off. it's a magnet for fingerprints, sure, but it doesn't feel like cheap paint.

Re:Nope

[Khyber]

I own one, that's how I know. There's chips right off the corners, and it's less than two weeks old. :(

Re:Nope

[Anonymous Coward]

What did you do to it?

Oh! A word scramble! I LIKE THESE!

[Anonymous Coward]

"your Get hands filthy machine of my!"

Re:Oh! A word scramble! I LIKE THESE!

[Ignominious Cow Herd]

"Your filthy hands get my machine off!"

"Get off your filthy hands, my machine!"

MacGyver Tip: Clean your Macbook with nail polish

[rabalde]

In lifehacjker.com you can find a cleaning solution that works: Non-acetone nail polish remover. Also, someone mentions that Mr Clean Magic Eraser also works.

Ive seen this at CompUSA

[bhav2007]

I've been looking at the Macs at a CompUSA by my house. Every white notebook they have had on display for a long time has some discoloration that looks like this (Although I don't think their new Macbooks do yet). Its really gross, I'd figured that they were all just really dirty, every body who walks by has gotta touch those things.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Posted to Flickr?! OMG PONIES! Flock!!1!!!

[Gothmolly]

Sounds like someone is embracing the whole "Web 2.0" thing.

You reap what you sew

[Junior J. Junior III]

Seriously, maybe white wasn't the best choice of colors? I guess it's better than the translucent "Look at all the dust I keep in there!" cases from the first generation iMac era, but Apple really ought to consider going back to the drawing board. Maybe some fashion-conscious people would scoff at the idea of a shit-brown MacBook, but you wouldn't have this problem any longer.

"Hey, Johnson, it looks like someone smeared poo all over your laptop."

"It's not a laptop, it's a MacBook. It's supposed to be brown."

"Ooooh, nice then. Keep up the great work!"

Re:You reap what you sew

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless you harvest clothes, I think you reap what you sow. You might rip what you sew, though.

Simple Green

[nuxx]

One of the best cleaning products I've found for removing hand oils (and other gunk) from electronics parts is plain old Simple Green. Just mix one part Simple Green to two parts hot water, dip a cloth in (terry cloth works great), and have a go. This works great for keyboards, mice, wrist wrests, desk edges, etc.

Sometimes for a bit more built up areas (around the edges of large keys and such) it helps to dab the icky spot to dampenen it, then rub back over it a few minutes later.

Just be sure not to get any drops down in between the keys... That has the potential for badness.

Re:Simple Green

[jdevivre]

[with much anguish]

"Simple Green is people!"

Re:Simple Green

[k4_pacific]

Isn't that the stuff that's made out of people?

Re:Simple Green

[Anonymous Coward]

No, that is soylent green. Simple Green is made from all the kittens that are killed every time Paris Hilton makes a new Simple Life series.

I can see where you can get confused.

Good question

[Mensa Babe]

Is this a case of just dirty hands or could it be another problem in Apple's new Intel saga?

Sadly the answer is: Yes.
We have to realise that Apple computers start to be much less "Mac" than ever. They used to be bright and lively, especially in color, showing or characterized by cheerfulness and lighthearted excitement. Now they are colorless, drab, dull, lifeless, plain, uncolorful. Furthermore, they embrace Intel's mainstream processing units which means that one can install Windows, Linux, GNU and FreeBSD on them. Hell, even KeyKOS. Obviously it makes them much more appealing to the majority of masculin computer nerds who happen to be much less sensitive to the olfactoric signs of the need of detergents than the average Mac user in the ninetities. I expect similar problems exploding during the next 12 months when Apple computers gain the market coverage. Ironically, problems like this one are clear signs of Apple's success which is something all of us should be proud of.

Re:Good question

[Ash-Fox]

Now they are colorless, drab, dull, lifeless, plain, uncolorful. Furthermore, they embrace Intel's mainstream processing units which means that one can install Windows, Linux, GNU and FreeBSD on them.

This maybe of a surprise to you, but we could install Linux and FreeBSD on Macs when they were on PPC.

it's the MAC implementation...

[Anonymous Coward]

...of a mood ring. white stands for casual relaxed user, yellow means your an overworked programmer

4 Words - Mr. Clean Magic Eraser

[sottitron]

I use one of these on my iBook palmrests every once in a while and it makes it look like new again. And don't go off and call me a Mr. Clean fanboy, because I am usually much more into 409 and Windex.

Re:4 Words - Mr. Clean Magic Eraser

[Anonymous Coward]

Man, stupid Mr. Clean fanboys, clogging up Slashdot with their bald headed fanaticism. Clearly 409 is the best cleaner.

Apple has been doing this for a while now....

[m93]

Haven't you ever used an Apple IIe? I've never seen one of those things that didn't start out white and then slowly degrade to a piss-burnt yellow color.

WASH YOUR DAM HANDS PEOPLE

[tyrnight]

Ok, I have to say it...... This coloration pattern is consistant with dirty palms and wrists...
here is the proof: "there seems to be some degree of success using cleaning products"
Heat burns will not come off with mister clean..

Moral of the story? Wash your hands before wacking off to internet pr0n..

Full Circle

[ThePopeLayton]

Wow now apple is selling black and yellow laptops. This brings us back to the original PowerBooks and FruitBooks. Don't you love the irony?

Quit doing...

[Anonymous Coward]

...all that meth and your sweat won't be full of corrosive chemicals.

not surprising

[v1]

I repair macs where I work. I see on average 5 ibooks per week, and just as many powerbooks. I have yet to see one of the macbooks in for service. (though I have fixed a couple pros) It's not uncommon to find an ibook with discoloration below the two palms, I see it on probably 1 in 15 ibooks. This number may be low because people clean up their computer before bringing it in.

The previous case top of the ibook was a fairly (but not completely) smooth surface and was a slightly off shade of white. It was also a very hard plastic and I suspect very chemically inert. When I do have to clean them, they are not terribly difficult to get the grime off from, though it does require some force and use of alcohol. On the ibooks its also somewhat common to see a circular area in the central region of the trackpad, colored slightly lighter than the surrounding area of the trackpad. That's caused by the less used area of the trackpad getting more grimey. Those can be a little more difficult to clean due to the texture of the trackpad. It's also possible to chip the trackpad's sensor surface if you are rough with it.

I also find that I have to clean the palm areas of my powerbook from time to time, usually about once a month as grime starts to build up under my palms and around the trackpad.

These stories about yellowing of the macbooks is somewhat of a surprise, but not really. This is not caused by heat. It's a combination of grime from the user's hands, possibly combined with a chemestry problem between the user's body oils and the plastic of the top case.

I would personally consider this a defect, since it's fairly clear that inadequate research was done by Apple to determine if there was going to be such an issue with their new case design. Also as others have pointed out, Apple makes quite a name for itself as a good looking computer, and issues like this do a lot more harm to the Apple brand than they would to say, Dell. The Apple users tend to be more demanding as to the cosmetic appearance of their computer, and react much more strongly when an issue develops.

This is not the first time a case design has been a problem. Owners of "titanium" powerbook G4s will remember the "tibook paint" issue, where the outer border of the case, a carbon fiber, had problems with the paint easily chipping off and sometimes cracking and flaking off under the user's wrists. There were also issues with watches worn on the wrist causing almost immediate removal of the paint from the CF border. To my knowledge Apple fixed their manufacturing process (new paint or primer?) but did not recall those units despite a lot of upset owners' complaints. With the tibook, the top case was the frame of the computer, onto which everything was assembled. To replace the top case of the tibook was extremely labor intensive. With the ibook, the top case is somewhat easier to replace. Not sure on the macbook. This will factor into Apple's willingness to issue a recall.

I am a former owner of such a tibook, but for me I care much less about appearance and more about performance, so it didn't bother me that much. I took a hard plastic blade and finished the job so the computer at least looked more balanced rather than have two isolated wear spots. My current computer, an "aluminum" powerbook, has to be cleaned periodically to keep the grime off the palmrests.

If the discoloration can be cleaned off with alcohol, it's probably just a grime issue. That discoloration is not the color I am used to seeing though - usually grime is very dark in color, but this appears to be a cream or light yellow. I would tend to suspect a chemical change is occurring in the plastic based on a combination of oils from the user's hands, accellerated by the heat produced by the computer. (this could not be removed with alcohol) Apple may have to change the composition of the plastic of the case, or coat the top deck somehow, to reduce or prevent this problem.

I believe the design of the new macbooks should b

Re:not surprising

[dr00g911]

I maintain a fleet of about 40 iBook/Macbooks at an ad agency.

I'll tell you right now that the palm rests on the iBook G3s went from white to yellow to black very quickly if the laptop was under any serious use. iBook G4s tended to be a little less prone to the discoloration (they had a more greyish palmrest), but it was still a problem. TiBooks went from gray to black when the finish inevitably disintegrated (I challenge anyone to find a vintage TiBook that doesn't look liike it's been run over by a truck today. Horrible case and material choices on that one.

Usually, you'd see the discoloration start at about the six month mark with them, if the laptops were under heavy use.

Black laptops have the exact same problems as well, it's just harder to see and less offensive looking. Hand oil/dirt gets into the plastic and use wears away at the plastic. It happens on any laptop.

Take a look at the shiny spot on the spacebar on just about any keyboard that's received any use if you don't believe me. The plastic & matte finish is worn away.

My advice for people who were concerned about the looks:

- Nail polish remover takes away the yellow, but doesn't magically regenerate the worn plastic
- Use an external mouse and keyboard if you're working on the thing for more than a few hours a day and save the trackpad and built in keyboard for when you're on the go. Not only to keep it pretty, but to be kind to your wrists ergonomically.

Honestly we maintain the iBook fleet because they're built to be practically indestructible and they're at a throwaway price point.

On the flip side, as long as I remember to take off my metal watch, Aluminum powerbooks/macbook pros tend to still look amazing after a few years. I just sold my two year old 12" G4 to upgrade to a Macbook Pro and it looked as good as the day I bought it once I applied a little windex to the case.

They do sweat nicotine

[BitterAndDrunk]

One of the things you're advised to do on a quit is shower a lot more frequently, to hasten the physical withdrawal and get it over with faster.

You can really see it behind your ears if you're a pack+ a day smoker who's without and sweating. The paper towel will be yellowish.

Not new to Apple

[elecngnr]

I have a 3 yr old PowerBook and a 2+ year old iMac. As many have said here, our skin oils are corrosive as hell. My PowerBook finish has spots exactly where my hands are when I am typing. Maybe I have lower expectations of the finish, but I was not at all surprised when it happened as I use my PowerBook alot--pretty much 5-12 hours every day. The white keyboard on my iMac needs to be cleaned about every other month, but it does not get used quite as much--as it is my wife's computer. I think it would be of interest to know how often the discolored products are used. Having said that, if it turns out to be a heat issue, as was suggested as a possibility in the article, I think this is an example of Apple's practice of using early adopters as product testers. Personally, I usually wait for a product line--Apple or otherwise--to go through several releases before buying one for just this reason.

So ... what's the deal ????

[yvesdandoy]

Because the once white plastic used to produce Macbooks is turning yellow does it mean Apple is a bad computers company ?

Give me a break w.....s and get a life !

So my "Slashdot karma" is bad ?!?! You haven't seen anything yet !!!

It's not discoloration...

[Carcass666]

It's yellow primer! (Obscure movie reference - Kurt Russel's finest hour!)

Hey Slashdot, welcome to last week!

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice of you to show up! This has been "news" (if you can really call it that) for at least a week now. Well I for one welcome our new, slow-on-the-uptake overlords!

I HATE my macbook pro

[gimpimp]

I regret the day i ever purchased it. the heat is immense, the noise annoying, and as for apple's "support" - it's been a joke.
my screen died, and they've replaced it with one with dead pixels. the silver started to wear off etc etc, now the keys are starting to 'smudge' (again, i think the silver finish is wearing off). I've promised my girlfriend can have this pos, and i'll be replacing it with a sony vaio fe. worst money i've ever spent, and has turned me away from buying from apple EVER again.

Re:I HATE my macbook pro

[Anonymous Coward]

Good. It's posers like you who are ruining the Mac community. Begone!

Re:I HATE my macbook pro

[PrimeNumber]

i'll be replacing it with a sony vaio
You really are a glutton for punishment arent you?
 
However I should say that I have an iBook G4 and it the best computer I have ever owned.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

HyperBook

[tvon]

OMFG hypercolor Macs!

They should have bought the black one

[nbahi15]

Seriously though we have a white Macbook and it is a great computer. I have read some of the complaints people report about heat, noise, etc and I just don't have these problems. I feel that Apple attracts overly critical (read fanatical) people to their computers with their excellent designs but let's be real these are still manufactured products and prone to the same problems.

Re:They should have bought the black one

[Mike Buddha]

People who buy Macs are paying a premium for the style of the computer. That's particularly true now that Macs run on x86 hardware. When there are problems with the style (a la the hairline cracks in the cube) they're right to get pissy and raise a fit. This is what they've paid for.

Re:I LOVE my macbook pro

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently I'm the only one who has a perfect one: no noise, no dead pixels, no paint problems. Does it get hot? Yep, but not crazy hot. But best of all, it blows my old PB away, and with Boot Camp I've got XP set up when giving demos to corp types who want to see our .NET build.

White plastic does not have to stain

[dangermouse]

I'm sorry to crap on your parade, but white plastic does not have to stain-- and these Macbooks are staining, not simply "showing dirt".

I have an iBook G4, which I've had for a year and a half. It's my work machine, and I'm a software developer. It's also my personal machine, and gets used quite a bit before and after work hours. The keycap lettering is visibly worn (only a spec of 'C' remains). I wash my hands when they have visible crud on them, and I know how to use a napkin, but I'm not OCD about it. This iBook is just as white as it was the day I bought it. If I tilt it just so, I can see a sheen of skin oil on the palm rests, trackpad, and keys; and there's some gray crud accumulated on the display bezel. It shows dirt. Both wipe away with a dry cloth, so neither has penetrated the plastic. There is no staining.

I've never heard of an iBook which stained, as opposed to simply accumulating dirt which could be removed with a mild cleaner. The Macbook has a different finish, with a softer "hand", and it seems clear from the forum threads that this finish is susceptible to staining in a way that the iBook's is not. (The frequency with which this staining occurs may be very low-- there's not much evidence so far that it's very widespread. This does not mean it isn't happening.)

I'm posting this not so much in defense of white, as in defense of those who bought these white laptops. This problem has not existed with previous white Apple laptops-- which were sold for years-- so there's no reason that anyone should have expected it now. Your smug, condescending tone unnecessarily insults these people, and is taken without real basis.

wash you hands...

[Anonymous Coward]

Or buy a black laptop.

Humans and the world are dirty.

Re:Good question, unGood answer

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're going to go the whole pretentious "I'm smarter than you" route Mensa_Babe, then you really might want to put some effort into not sounding stupid.

"Sadly the answer is: Yes."

Yes, very sad. The question wasn't asking for a yes or no answer. Your response is similar to answering 'potato' to 'how much is 2 + 2?'.

Maybe I ain't gots the book-learnin' to be in Mensa, but I do have a spell checker...

"...have to realise that..."

realiZe

"...majority of masculin computer..."

masculinE

"...in the ninetities."

nine titties or nineties

I'll let you slide on 'uncolorful' and 'olfactoric'...

Geez, isn't there some kind of testing process for admittance to Mensa?

Only Mac users

[epp_b]

I can't think of any other group who would complain about how their laptop looks over all other factors.

Reportedly doesn't work

[dangermouse]

You should read the forum threads, or the summary page at appledefects.com. This staining of Macbooks is different from the accumulation of surface dirt on your iBook. Reportedly, Mr. Clean Magic Eraser has been tried, and does not work.

where were they using them?

[Wansu]

  "... some users on the Apple support forums are reporting moderate to severe discoloration near the palm rest and other locations of their new white MacBooks ..."

Maybe they were using 'em on the crapper or didn't wipe first.

Apple released a patch for this already

[Anonymous Coward]

Yellow case patch

Re:Macs and smokers...

[klubar]

Don't know the answer, but it would be interesting if there are a higher percentage of Mac users who smoke versus PC users? Macs tend to attract "cooler", artistic types who may tend to be more likely to smoke. Perhaps the flaking paint is a warning to smoking mac users to quit.

On the onther hand the smoking machines (Macs, Dells, and some IBM) are a warning to the users to keep a bucket of water handy when using their laptop.

Are there better pictures anywhere?

[algerath]

The only stories I saw links to here had a couple of pictures that looked like someone took them with their phone. Everyone is an expert on this issue and I have yet to see a decent photo of it.

I have seen a crapload of posts with others saying they have the same thing with older ibooks and powerbooks but still no decent pics.

I personally have a G3 ibook and a G4 PB both get heavy use, with no serious color/appearance issues.

Go ahead blast the Mac book pro/mac book. I am a SERIOUS Mac fan and I will be just fine with Apple maintaining the current market share, that just means it is less lucrative to write crapware that will target my machines. All of you that see these pics and go eeew its yellow Please go buy a Vaio because you don't get it.

Algerath

Re:Black MacBook - less for more?

[Eggz Factor]

Macworld UK compared the performance of identically configured Macbooks - one white and the other black, and found some performance differences that pegged the white MacBook as slightly faster in many tests. Different HD manufactures accounted for some of the differential, and the white model bested the black one on MPEG 2 encoding as well as rendering the aged video effect in iMovie.

So, essentially that black paint is $200 + dollars.... not exactly a bargain unless you end up spending that in non-acetone nail polish remover for the white MacBook.

yellow stains == piss

[dwight0]

yellow stains == piss

Re:yellow stains == piss

[dwight0]

yeah man, unfortunately i found out that was the problem! your a genious!

Re:yellow stains == piss

[Anonymous Coward]

I can see it now. PC stickers with the little guy pissing on the Mac.

Piss on Dodge

Beige? Yellow, more like.

[jdbartlett]

I am so suing IBM. After only 23 years of ownership, its classy beige casing has yellowed noticeably. I bought it to go with the paintwork in my apartment. Well, it still goes with the paintwork in my apartment. That's it, I'm suing Dulux, too.

Seriously, though, the best thing about Macs is that they're computers that actually look nice. The best thing about OS X is that it looks good (since I started using Open Source Stuff, it doesn't even run my apps faster than Linux, it just looks nicer). What's the point of Mac if it's ugly?

Lesson relearned: don't buy 1st gen Apple products.

And I paid $700 extra to get mine painted!

[pbrooks100]

http://www.colorwarepc.com/products/select_macbook .aspx

not surprising...

[CrazyTalk]

My year-old iBook G4 is practially black to the left and right of the touchpad from my hands resting there for 12 hours a day. And I didn't even have to pay the extra $150 for that color scheme!

Disappointed

[I Heart Mops]

I thought this might have finally been a reality.

Dirty Hippies

[miraclemax01]

Yet more proof that only dirty, tree hugging hippies use Macs...

Apple Quality Drops as Zealots Shop

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps it's time for Apple to move manufacturing out of China and invest some of their legal war chest to improve product materials and workmanship.

On the other hand, why should Apple invest money to improve product quality if Mac zealots will continue to purchase anything that rolls out the door with an Apple logo on it...even after having been suckered by scratched-to-hell iPods and over heating MacBooks? I won't even mention (except here) all the iBooks that required multiple motherboard replacements.

Decide with your wallets, people. Apple will only improve quality once the consumer demands it.

Apple reached the zenith of its design years ago and is now in complete freefall, IMHO.

Intel Inside! WooHoo! Now someone please give me my Mac back.

OT: To get white, add blue.

[Kadin2048]

In re: bleaching of white shirts -- don't do it without checking the care tag! Bleach will often make white shirts MORE yellow, depending on the materials used in the shirt.

Actually to really get white shirts white again, I've found what's required is bleaching followed by bluing. You have to be very careful not to overdo it (because it's literally a blue dye), but carefully used, it can make white clothes more of a "brilliant white" color again, when they start to look a little too beige.

I'm not sure exactly why it works, I suspect it's just psychological, and adding a little blue tint to an off-white makes it seem brighter white again, but it really does work. You may have to hunt around to find a place that sells it, but a bottle will probably last the rest of your life. (Some laundry detergents may contain bluing already, I'm not sure: I know mine doesn't because it's a "dye free" hypoallergenic.)

Re:OT: To get white, add blue.

[Red Flayer]

It works because of irradiation (not the irradiation most slashdotters would think of, but the color theory irradiation). This is the same reason that black is slimming -- it's just an optical illusion that takes advantage of how the human eye perceives color and dark/light contrasts.

This was actually a pretty annoying problem for me when I last painted the interior of my house -- blue painters' tape on the walls made an off-white ceiling paint seem brilliant white when I cut in the edges... when the tape came off, the ceiling seemed very beige, especially for the rooms with yellow-toned walls. I had to repaint the damn ceiling bright white.

Back to the bluing -- grain & feed stores are a good place to find it, it's used to make horses' manes and tails brighter, particularly grey horses. I spent many, many hours growing up rinsing Bluette solution out of horse tails...

Re:OT: To get white, add blue.

[Red Flayer]

And I forgot to mention, Bluette is also a big reason why little old ladies often have blue-ish hair -- they use it to make white hair look brighter, even silvery. When they don't rinse it out all the way, it leaves too much blue tint in.

It's not discoloration

[Odin_Tiger]

This isn't discoloration. It's sweat stains. Wipe your palms and / or lay of the pr0n, Apple geeks!

Busines oportunity!

[dark-br]

Hmmmmm... I have the urge to start a new company selling latex gloves with the apple logo printed on them. "iGloves"

Macbook Pro owner

[Oztun]

I have had my Macbook Pro for several months as have some of my coworkers. The one thing we all agree we love about our notebooks is the lack of problems. I've been using computers since 81, Dos/Windows PC's since 86 and coding for Linux since 94. I didn't really want a Mac, but I had to support Windows, Linux and Mac while constantly traveling. The Macbook was the best solution. I'm running XP and Linux virtually with Parallels and both work great for system adminstration and testing code.

What amazes me is how much attention from the media and computer people these "problems" get. My Macbook did run slightly warm until the SMC update which fixed that. The whine people talk about isn't noticable if I set the notebook next to any desktop or old PC laptop I have. Also the whine typically last for 5 minutes in the morning when I boot. I use the notbook so much now that I put it to sleep and don't shutdown which means no whine. As for discoloration I've used mine everyday for two months and it looks brand new. Searching the net I've only found two cases so far of this.

When using Windows your entire OS seems to slow down. You have a constant barrage of spyware and crap attempting to install. When you uninstall a program you wonder how many pieces are left over and what the effects will be. I mean with Windows I just came to expect problems ever since I started using version 3.0. I'd say that I have had way less problems with the Macbook than any other laptop I've ever owned (at least 10 Inspirons and Vaios). After fixing heavy Dell laptops for clients I've come to hate them and their tech support and yet they are still one of the best PC hardware companies out there. I've had even worse times dealing with Toshiba and Sony.

People just expect everything to be perfect on Mac and any conceivable problem is major news in the industry. To me that says so much about how good the product really is. I always made fun of Mac in the past because before OSX and Intel they had huge roadblocks that kept me from using them. Even though I didn't really want to use one or support it now I don't think I can go back to using Windows or Linux for my client desktop. I will say for servers though Unix is still the only option for me. I believe in the right tool for the job. At this point Windows only use is for my clients who don't think they can live without it yet constantly cry for help. My Mac and Linux users very rarely ask for any help only the Linux guys are all developers.

Re:Macbook Pro owner

[unPlugged-2.0]

Hmm,

Well I have a macbook pro as well and I just recently converted from a lifetime of pc's and windows. Some of what you say is absolutely correct. It is without fail a very versatile machine, I currently run Mac OSX and Windows via Boot Camp and Linux via Parallels. For what I need and the different OS's I need to test my products on it is absolutely without peer. Also it is the most stunning laptop ever made I think. I get compliments all the time.

However I do not agree with the rest of your reasoning. The reason people complain about Mac's and any defects is because you could have the same computer for much less. As a matter of fact my MBP is almost 1,000 more than a similarly configured Dell or IBM Thinkpad (I get an employee discount). Also it is marketed as being better than a regular pc in every way. It has a whole section devoted to design and they talk about how much R&D they spend on the actual hardware design and use of the product.

For that kind of money is it bad to expect things to work great. My MBP is very hot. Much hotter than any other laptop I have ever used to this day. My co-worker got an IBM thinkpad that runs so cool and it has the exact specs and components and runs just as fast. Also there are other issues as well that give you a slightly sour feeling when you realize that you spend so much more than you normally would have.

And also the reason that you hear so many complaints is because there are more people using the Mac than ever before. A little while ago the Mac was a niche product and everybody who used it knew exactly what they wanted and have probably used mac's all their life. So they would ignore the problems or not be so vocal about it.

But now the Mac's are selling better than they ever have. Also they are attracting a lot of PC geeks such as myself that are used to getting excellent value for the money. Also us geeks are a very tough critic and when we spend our hard earned money and feel slighted you better believe that we are going to tell the whole world.

That is why people complain now and that is why the issue of yellow macbooks is significant. After owning 12 laptops in my time I have never had an issue like this in years of use much less in a span less than a week. And I am a sweaty beast.

Apple finally has a product that can be judged fairly against the competition. They have always been able to say we are so different (Power PC etc) so that is why you pay so much for what you get. They can no longer do that and now they have real competition to compare to.

----------------
Slashdotter (def) - A person who claims to program but just writes on forums all day

Re:Macbook Pro owner

[argent]

Me too.

I would rather have had a Thinkpad running Mac OS X. Much better designed hardware all around.

Apple is a software company, when it comes down to it. They make their money from the hardware, yes, but people don't buy it because it's Apple hardware and wouldn't pay that much for that hardware without the Apple software on it - whether that hardware is a Mac or an iPod. Because Apple doesn't make their own hardware. It shows.

"Shininess" of plastic

[Kadin2048]

I've seen this same thing happen both to my IBM ThinkPad, and to other laptops that I've owned in the past. (Actually the first time I noticed something like this was on my old PowerBook 165...may it rest in pieces.) I think it's just because the manufacturers, either by accident or design, don't give their plastics an entirely smooth finish. Instead it's lightly matte/pebbled. If you look closely at the surface of a black laptop in the light, you can clearly see this.

The smoothness is just your fingers wearing down the plastic wherever you touch it most. When you wear through the depth of the pebbled surface finish, it starts to get smooth. I've always wondered why companies don't just anticipate this and make the finish glossier, but maybe it's hard to do because of the way the parts come out of the molds (i.e., whatever mold-release agent they're using in manufacturing leads to the pebbled finish). Or maybe they just realize that how the computer looks when it's new contributes more to sales than how it looks 6 months down the road, and allow this tradeoff consiously. (I think this is probably likely.)

I think this is why you don't see manufacturers coating or painting their keys, but rather dying the plastic all the way through. Even if the finish was coated with some very hard lacquer/clearcoat, it would still eventually be worn off and the result would probably be worse than the wear and oxidation of a fully-pigmented plastic. Plus, I suspect it's a lot cheaper just to pigment the plastic during manufacturing, and not have to finish or paint it afterwards.

As an sidenote, you can often tell when a keyboard has been used by an FPS gamer a lot, because the left control and WASD (or QWED, or both) keys will be worn smooth.

Use the correct terms

[Anonymous Coward]

I have said this before and I will say it again.
PC stands for Personal Computer.
To my knowledge Macs are PCs, Linuxs boxes are PCs and so are windows Boxes.
So, using the PC vs. Mac does not make any sense.

not an issue on my 2001 ibook

[johnpaul191]

my ibook is one of the early dual USB models (chicklet/icebook/whatever). i drag it around everywhere, don't clean my hands carefully before using it etc. i have used it to guide me through fixing things on my motorcycle or car. basically it is exposed to me being less than clean and it has no stains. actually the palm wrest area is probably cleaner than the keyboard and corners of the trackpad because it's easier to wipe off (no cleaning solution).

they did change at least some of the plastic in the ibooks though. i know the outer shells were clear with white paint inside (so you can remove the paint with rubbing alcohol). the G4 ibook is probably the solid white outer shell. maybe the inside plastic changed too?

i do agree with the above poster that some people have drastically different body chemistries. i don't know how a computer manufacturer would test a computer part against all the potential situations. i would think that would be more the job of the people actually selling the plastic? i do not means in terms of blame, but just in terms of them having a durable product.

look at some of the pictures of the stains. people suspect they were manipulated in photoshop to look worse. the color difference between their keyboard keys and surrounding plastic is far far more drastic than any MacBook i have seen in person.

RTFA

[fistfullast33l]

Way for you and your moderators to not read the article or the link to the flikr images. Quote:

The spots don't wash off, I've only had the MacBook for two weeks. Genius at Apple Store told me to call Apple about it, as he's never seen anything like it. My iBook didn't discolor in the 3 years I had it -- can't be my hands. I don't smoke, don't use latex, etc. And for those who worry about my hygiene habits, thanks. I wash my hands.

What's amazing is that you have about 10 responses jumping to the same conclusion. Oh well, I guess that's what we've come to expect on Slashdot.

This is nothing new

[millard]

Apple certainly isn't the only manufacturer that has had these problems. We have a user here who went through several pre-Lenovo IBM Thinkpads with a similar problem. His, what I can only assume was, extrodinarily corrosive hand-sweat would eventually wear through the rubberized coating on the Thinkpad. In the spots where the balls of his hands rested while he typed, the bare metal would eventually be exposed. I'm guessing it's a combination of salty sweat and heat. We actally didn't solve this problem until he switched to a Powerbook G4. So far it has stood up well to his, what Gizmodo called 'Nerdsweatulene"...

Re:I LOVE my macbook pro

[be-fan]

Not the only one :) Mine's perfect so far, knock on wood.

Why Are People Complaining??

[jeddak]

This will cease to be a problem when, in the year 2016, Apple offers MacBooks in 'Vintage Yellow,' at which point the resale value of these puppies will exceed $2.3M each.

Re:Why Are People Complaining??

[sethstorm]

...When at the same time, they release the first laptop certified to be built in countries that do not have slave labor. ;)

duh.

[Anonymous Coward]

quit eating fucking Cheetos while using a white laptop, genius'.

Submitter = Troll

[Anonymous Coward]

"Is this a case of just dirty hands or could it be another problem in Apple's new Intel saga?"

Because Intel is supplying the case finish for the new MacBooks, too, right? What, you mean they're not? You mean it's completely ridiculous to blame Intel for for a faulty case? Darn.

Can we at least blame them for global warming until the next Exxon-sponsored hack tells us it's all in our heads? Yeah? Oh good. Carry on!

Just like a real apple.

[AngryVitamin]

Even a real apple when bitten into is white at first but turns a nasty yellow/brown over time. Maybe this is by design. ;-) /\\/

chapskates!

[urbieta]

I no longer drull over a cheap ass mac, I rather paint my compatible-with-everything PC based laptop with 10 coats of dupont car paint.

Erasers work indeed.

[DancesWithBlowTorch]

I'm sitting in front of my white 2004 iBook G4 right now and I just tried your eraser proposal. You're right, the faint dark spots on the palm rests of my machine can indeed be brushed away with a rubber eraser.

But I have another problem: Over the course of the past two years, the keyboard has slowly lost its imprints. First on the "s" (where my ring finger rests during touch-typing), then on the "e", "a" and "c" keys (for the first two, it's probably the frequency with which they're hit, for the "c" it might be because of the angle at which my index finger hits it: with the nail). It doesn't seem to be a common problem, but Apple won't replace the keyboard (despite my AppleCare contract), because it is a standard usage effect, they claim. Granted, I don't need to see the keys during typing, but it sure looks ugly. Let's see how this problem turns out with the new machines.

Re:Erasers work indeed.

[mcdermd]

Buy a new keyboard off of ebay. I'll bet you find one paid for and shipped for under $30USD.

Re:Erasers work indeed.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, that's because of the first-person-shooter games you play (ASDWC).

From the looks of it you are a crouching (C key) camper that is easily scared and likes to run away (S key) to heal up.

Re:Erasers work indeed.

[nerdguy0]

If it's under Applecare, just lie and tell them the keyboard doesn't work and they'll probably replace it for you. I had a similar thing happen to my Powerbook's power adaptor. The little tabs that hold the cable snapped off, so I told them it didn't work any more and they replaced it, simple as that.

Re:Erasers work indeed.

[Anonymous Coward]

If it's under Applecare, just lie and tell them the keyboard doesn't work and they'll probably replace it for you.

Lie to our insanley great company? Fuck that. Tell the truth and accept the cost of a keyboard replacement, or just live with a fully functional keyboard that "looks" wrong. If you don't like this policy, then consider this policy (among other factors) when you buy your next notebook.

Of course, if you hate Apple, then go ahead and lie to them.

Re:Erasers work indeed.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sitting in front of my white 2004 iBook G4 right now and I just tried your eraser proposal. You're right, the faint dark spots on the palm rests of my machine can indeed be brushed away with a rubber eraser. But I have another problem: Over the course of the past two years, the keyboard has slowly lost its imprints.

Gah. How dumb are you people?

Turn the pencil around and use the other end.

Re:Erasers work indeed.

[Confuzzled]

I don't know where you went, but if you come into my apple store (won't say which), we have _tons_ of extra keyboards. We'll just pop off those letters and give you other ones from the spares we have. Won't be new, but will look new.

-c

Re:Erasers work indeed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Same problem; I've had the machine since March 2005, and so far 16 keys have lost their letters; 8 more have lost part of their letters (or numbers, or symbols).

Mine is turning yellow too!

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't mind though, because it renders my p0rn flawlessly still.

This is a *product defect*...

[WebCowboy]

...NOT a problem of a user's hygiene or poor lifestyle choices.

Nicotine will stain white appliances.

The stains do sport the hue of nicotine, but to blame this problem on nicotine, or sweaty palms, or body chemistry. That is total BS and a really lame excuse for a design or manufacturing oversight, or just plain shoddy workmanship. It happens with Apple from time to time--they seem to alternate between exceptional quality and crap. I guess this time they hired the same people to do their MacBook cases as Chrysler did to paint their Spirit, Shadow and Neon cars in the 1990s as they seem to have comparably (less than) durable finishes.

These macbooks have only been out for a few weeks, and there are ALREADY countless reports of white macbooks with yellow spots. There is even a report of finish flaking off a macbook that hasn't even left the store! Yes, white will show dirt more, but these spots don't seem to be dirt--they apparently do not simply rub out. Furthermore, though white plastic will discolour with age it is totally unacceptable that it should happen within weeks. I have an ergonomic keyboard made FIVE YEARS AGO that is white--it sees 40 to 60 hours of use a week, 40 to 50 weeks a year. It is starting to look a little grimy and some letters are wearing off a bit, but THERE ARE NO YELLOW STAINS ON THE PALM REST AT ALL. It has also been used by several people and nobody has had an "incompatible body chemistry".

Apple makes fantastic products and has enjoyed an extended renaissance. Their customers have to keep them on track--if hardcore apple fans get all apologetic and start blaming users for the shortcomings of a product then they risk infecting Apple with the same mindset, and they'll start to slide back into the dark days they had in the 1990s. I know these defects are the kind of thing that would make Jobs go thermonuclear, however I also know he is prone to the effects of the "reality distortion field"--and it's those unabashed Apple Evangelist users out there who often generate and amplify reality distortion fields.

Sounds like an UbuntuBook

[neiras]

Just add some softcore wallpaper to that styling brown case... Brilliant!

Re:Yellow and flaky?Q

[kfg]

Patient: Doctor, doctor! My penis has turned orange.

Doctor: You're an out of work programmer, aren't you?

KFG

Hygiene

[Anonymous Coward]

Wash your hands, you dirty, dirty Apple users!

Apple Store Macbooks?

[smyal4mee]

If it's just a case of body grime reacting with the plastic, wouldn't this yellowness become rapidly apparent at the apple stores, where there is almost constant use of all of the macbooks? I'm especially curious about the new NYC apple store, since its computers must be on 24/7, so heat as an issue would also be magnified there. Do they just replace the yellowish ones with new macbooks? Or are they just very fastidious with their cleaning process? I haven't noticed any yellowing of computers the last time I went, so I'm inclined to believe the nicotine theory. Can someone who works at an apple store shed some light on the situation there?

I am having a similar problem with my Osborne 1

[Tired and Emotional]

The paint on the keyboard where my palms rest has all worn off.

This is an old problem with some of their plastic

[Anonymous Coward]

The G4 Mac Minis from last year have the same problem. The top white cover slowly turns yellowish over time. Its not UV/outdoor light related either, we had some that were in windowless offices or behind a partition their whole life while others are right next to southern windows. They were all bought around the same time and have been discoloring at about the same rate.

The other parts of the minis remained solid white (once you wiped off the dust) they are a different kind of plastic. Perhaps its because the top part covers the wireless and bluetooth antennas, it has to be different?

It may be heat related, I don't really know. The other plastic is clearly immune though, including the airflow outlets in the back where the heat is forced out.

Its too early to tell if they fixed this for the intel minis, but I doubt it, the cases have not really changed besides the arrangement of holes.

Re:I LOVE my macbook pro

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, believe it or not, most peoples' are "perfect." Apple has a reputation for making high-quality, spotless products, however, so anytime somebody encounters a problem, they tend to make a big fuss about it. There's basically a small group with problems who are very vocal about them.

Color Changing

[Markzilla]

I have a Dell Laptop where the screen keeps turning blue...

I have to ask

[Inoshiro]

Do they also teach them how to undo their zips and support their penises without using their hands?

I prefer if people wash their hands off after touching their penises, especially if they're touching me.

Re:I have to ask

[Yold]

"ball-sweat" aside, your hands are dirtier than your penis... your willy touches your underwear and isn't exposed to the germs that cover everything. Who really cares about germs? Most germs can be pathogenic, but only in the right circumstances and environment. I wash my hands after touching a public keyboard, before preparing/eating food, after pooping, and that is about it... i am typically not so concerned with the inch wide area along my thumb and forefinger that comes into contact with the one of the most pathogen-free parts of my body.

Re:I have to ask

[Anonymous Coward]

I may be speaking a foreign language here on Slashdot, but are you aware that there are women (hey, and men) who will put your penis directly into their mouths? Meanwhile, you're busy being paranoid about how many germs your zipper has. Time to get a clue.

Re:I have to ask

[BeanThere]

Pathogen-free? You are seriously kidding yourself. The problem is the environment, not what your fingers or penis have come into contact with. Hands tend to be dry most of the time and exposed to the elements, while the environment in your underwear is warm, dark, humid, and very well protected from wind, sun etc. - it's practically ideal for promoting the growth of all sorts of little cuddly friends like bacteria and fungi. Bacteria can multiply incredibly fast in such conditions - a single bacterium can divide into millions within hours. (Why do you think armpits are one of the most bacteria-filled areas of your body, when practically *nothing* ever comes into contact with them? That's right, warm, moist, dark etc.).

Not washing your hands after touching your penis is disgusting. Having said that though, worrying about all these pathogens all the time is largely pointless and overly paranoid too, in spite of all the bacteria and so on these are still relatively safe to touch, that's why we have immune systems (as someone else pointed out, many women frequently put penises in their mouths; if it was so dangerous women would be dropping like flies or getting sick all the time).

Re:This is an old problem with some of their plast

[dmnic]

myself and a friend each have 2 Minis (all G4 models, 1st gen and 2nd gen) and none of the 4 have exhibited any discoloration.
you are the first person I have ever heard of saying their Mini has a coloration problem.

Re:Macs and smokers...

[NMerriam]

Don't know the answer, but it would be interesting if there are a higher percentage of Mac users who smoke versus PC users? Macs tend to attract "cooler", artistic types who may tend to be more likely to smoke.

Highly doubtful -- the primary demographic difference between Mac users and PC users is household income. Smoking is inversely associated with wealth for adults (though interestingly, adolescents are equally likely to smoke whether rich or poor).

What the. . . ?

[kimvette]

You're telling me paint wears off? Tell me it isn't so!

The solution is simple: in their next production run for the cases, they should specify plastic which is colored a shade fairly close to what the final finish will be. It won't be a perfect match, but will result in a notebook which isn't totally fugly after extended use.

But then again, isn't the Apple mentality to replace the machine every six to twelve months to show off the new bling?

This is what you get for having a good rep...

[ivan256]

Apple has built a reputation for style, and this is what they get if there's even a little chink in the armor. If they don't want stories like this, they should be more like Dell and have this stuff be so common nobody bothers to write about it.

go AFTERMARKET!

[speedtrials]

Apple is just opening up the aftermarket to Macbook palm rest covers.

THIS JUST IN!

[RickBauls]

Human contact causes discoloration in items!

Or, in other words, it's to be expected. Mac users just need to wash their hands a little more.

Re:THIS JUST IN!

[chawly]

Do Mac users wash ?

DIRTY HANDS

[Anonymous Coward]

im an apple certified tech (not working for apple directly) and this happends on all white ibooks and mac books. and its cus people use thier ibook/mac books with dirty hands. just use a bottle "get off remover" and a bottle of "iclear". apply the get off remover first, wipe, then the iclear. wipe till dry. just like any other company they are not responsiable for thier products getting dirty. thats like getting a new car cus you went through the mud. just like anything white it gets dirty easy.

-drew

Am I a broken record.

[Anonymous Coward]

How come http://www.appledefects.com/ get NOOO LOVE?

good for them, apples product quality is TERRIBLE

all you die hard mac fans need to wake up and stop listening to the L ron HUBBARDISH Steve Jobs

god i hate apple

peace

Macs seem prone to discoloration

[AHumbleOpinion]

It's not just the white enclosures, or surfaces that are touched. I recall seeing old beige Macs discolor and this included the tower's case, not something that was handled very often. Also different plastic parts seemed to discolor differently. I think Apple just has a history of using plastics that are prone to discoloration, the current models may just be doing so at a faster rate.

Of course, its all part of Apple's super secret forced obsolescence campaign, everyone knows people by Macs for their looks so Apple has them age ungracefully to spur upgrqades. ;-)

Mine went back in 24 hours

[philask]

I ordered one, it came, I used it for 24 hours, I sent it back for a full refund.

It ran far too hot, so much so that it was uncomfortable to use on my lap and left my table hot to the touch (yes I'd done all the checks for blocked vents etc.) And I really wasn't loading it up, just running Safari and Mail.

It's a lovely piece of design but a sad example of form over function, there's ONE vent and that's just in front of the LCD, it's just insufficient. I've got a new VAIO TX which has inlet and outlet vents in opposite places, the outlet is on the left side which means you can put it on your lap and it can still vent. Even under full load the TX only gets warm (although you can hear the fans), in normal use you don't hear the fans and it's hardly warm at all.

Sorry Apple, I really wanted to like the MacBook but you've seriously screwed up here.

Re:Mine went back in 24 hours

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, low-performing laptops, like the VAIO TX, don't get very hot.

Re:Mine went back in 24 hours

[philask]

It's sad then that OS X needs so much horsepower to achieve the same level of usability as XP on the TX.

Touched by the unclean

[Anonymous Coward]

I suspect those experiencing this are not true followers of MAC and thus are unclean. To become clean repeat after me,
I love Steve Jobs, I love GUIs, I will pay extra for designer chassis.
Now you are clean. If this continues, you do not truly believe in the above.

Yes, that's just lovely...

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you do me a favor, though?

If we ever meet in person, could you first tell me that you don't wash your hands after going to the bathroom? That way I'll know to avoid any physical contact with you whatsoever.

Seriously? That's gross!

[Anonymous Coward]

You can make all the arguments you want about how clean your genitals or urine or whatever is, but if you're not washing your hands after you go to the bathroom, you're disgusting.

I understand the toilet bowl actually has fewer germs than your kitchen counter. Do you prepare your food in there? Maybe wash the lettuce with a flush?

Fake-tan lotion?

[SteeldrivingJon]

I was wondering if these people had been using those orangey fake-tan products. That'd get on their hands, and then perhaps when combined with sweat, discolor the palmrests.

think of the children...

[Original Replica]

H2O also kills babies! H2O has been linked to the growth of almost eveything! And H2O is being sprayed on our food, is washing up on our beaches and building up in the internal organs of endangered species. Join the fight against H2O!

what about Mac Mini

[spicky]

I am experiencing a similar color changing experience with several Mac Mini's as well. After just 6-7 months, I can notice the upper cover of the cases getting yellowish, old looking, exactly like if somebody was constantly smoking on them (which is not the case). When I went to the local apple store, I saw their older Mac Mini in the showroom being far more yellow than mine. Also the contrast with the bright white cover of the newest dual core models was evident. I wonder what colors I will have the pleasure to enjoy in a couple of years and if other users are experiencing the same.

Not Income

[Anonymous Coward]

The first thing a business student learns is that nothing is about how much money you have, its about how much you think you have (since we can take out loans, use credit cards, etc). Everybody can think of somebody who has no money but has a big screen TV, or the opposite - somebody with lots of money and a small house, etc.

Using this logic, its not the rich folks with macs, its the people who are willing to spend a little more. The luxury crowd, if you will.
(and yes, it does make a difference)

Re:Not Income

[NMerriam]

The first thing a business student learns is that nothing is about how much money you have, its about how much you think you have (since we can take out loans, use credit cards, etc). Everybody can think of somebody who has no money but has a big screen TV, or the opposite - somebody with lots of money and a small house, etc.

Using this logic, its not the rich folks with macs, its the people who are willing to spend a little more. The luxury crowd, if you will. (and yes, it does make a difference)

No, self-perception or people living beyond means has nothing to do with what I said. It may have a lot to do with marketing, but nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not Mac buyers have higher household incomes than the average computer buyer. It's simply a statement of fact, not of perception or cachet.

I'm sure people do drop money on $5,000 macs (and $5,000 alienware systems) who can't afford to, but at the end of the day both Apple and Alienware also sell many of their systems to people who, as a demographic fact, make more money than the average Dell home computer buyer.

Smoking Six Packs a Day?

[Anonymous Coward]

What, iBooks are not tobacco proof?

I've seen 'white' generic PC boxes and keyboards turned brown by smokers,
why should iBooks be any different?

Re:Use the correct terms. Or nuts !

[chawly]

I completely agree with you:-

I have said this before and I will say it again. PC stands for Police Constable. To my knowledge Macs are Scotsmen, Linux boxes come in different sizes and so do Windows Boxes(which are transparent, obviously). So, using the PC vs. Mac does not make any sense and may be unfair to the Constable (who might well be English).

It's a feature!

[200_success]

Apparently, some people would pay extra to have a yellow MacBook.

Obligatory car analogy!

[Descalzo]

As far as I can tell, I'm the first to do the car metaphor on this one!

So I drive an old 1990 Buick LeSabre. I'll never get rid of it, EVER (until it dies), because I like the way it drives! It has power, and still manages to get 29 on the freeway (I have to drive a little under the limit to achieve this). I like the comfy, plush seating, the dashboard layout, the legroom, the elbowroom, the headroom. The only car I've ever driven that was more comfy was my 85 Buick Electra. I even like the body style. And there's something special about being the one with the highest mileage in the parking lot at work.
The paint is totally coming off on the leading edge of the hood, and right above the windshield. I love the car still. If I had 2 million dollars, I'd still drive that Buick.

Let me also be the first to rip on the bad car analogy!

If my laptop casing was in as bad of shape as my car's paint job, I would be ticked. I would be doing what I could to fix it. Especially if it were made by some company known for having classy-looking products.

On a more serious note, I'll be VERY surprised if Apple doesn't fix this. I still think the classy look is their #1 signature symbol.

Re:Obligatory car analogy!

[M. Baranczak]

You know, analogies are like ex-girlfriends...

I predict...

[Carpe PM]

Given the nature of the Apple orthodoxy, I would expect them to blame the discoloration on the bodily emissions of non-vegetarians.

Apple pros and cons

[Descalzo]

I used to hate Macs. Then I saw OSX. I tried and tried to hate it but couldn't. I thought it was the best OS I had ever seen, if a little slow. Then I suddenly got the chance to try it on a modern computer, and I thought, WOW! If I could get all my productivity software on this, I would never go back to Windows. (I run OSX on my ASUS laptop and can't get 3D to work on the NVidia card. Wireless also doesn't work).

Now, the rest of the story: My company (a school district) is making the switch from Apples to Dells. We talked to them about it (we have been an Apple school since the building was constructed) and they talked to us about service. Apparently, when you have to repair an Apple it is like dealing with a Vogon. They say you usually have to repair less often, but when you do it is a major headache. The certification is more expensive, the warranty is garbage, the job is more difficult. Plus, we got a couple of bad batches of Macs in, and Apple was convinced that it was some kind of user error that happened to 50 or more Macs all in the same way at roughly the same time (this has happened at my school, but in a way less annoying way). So we are switching to Dells.

I get to keep my 5-year-old iMac, but I am retiring it to a life as a student typing station. I'm gonna miss working on good ole OSX. Especially now that I had finally gotten a copy of Tiger.

*sigh*

P.S.: Their commercials always make me want to barf. Especially this last crop of ads. Holy Monkey, what garbage!

Word of the Day: Switcher

[Anonymous Coward]

switcher \'swi`ch &r\, n.
A person who thinks that they are a Mac user but are really just trying to be. The mistake they make is to try to become a Mac user, when real Mac users are all about not trying to be anything and following your own rules. There is no fashion code to being a Mac user. There are no rules as to what applications you have to run.

Recent converts like you are ruining the old school Mac community because you are posers. Apple releases one OS that popularizes Fitts' law and the Genie effect, and suddenly people assume being a Mac user is all about owning a Mac. But a real Mac user is born, not made. You "switchers" are misrepresenting yourselves and the Mac platform. You're giving people the wrong idea of what Macintosh is.

switcher: shops at hot topic, thinks Firefox is a good Mac app, waiting for OS X port of PayrollPro 2000, follows any hint of a fashion trend (instead of setting them!), wouldn't know Clarus from Carl Sagan.

real Mac user: someone true to who they are, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They're not fond of rules and they have no respect for the status quo. The ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world.

Re:Word of the Day: Switcher

[Descalzo]

That's creepy. How'd you get my photo?

Word of the Day: Switcher

[Anonymous Coward]

switcher \'swi`ch &r\, n.
A person who thinks that they are a Mac user but are really just trying to be. The mistake they make is to try to become a Mac user, when real Mac users are all about not trying to be anything and following your own rules. There is no fashion code to being a Mac user. There are no rules as to what applications you have to run.

Recent converts like you are ruining the old school Mac community because you are posers. Apple releases one OS that popularizes Fitts' law and the Genie effect, and suddenly people assume being a Mac user is all about owning a Mac. But a real Mac user is born, not made. You "switchers" are misrepresenting yourselves and the Mac platform. You're giving people the wrong idea of what Macintosh is.

switcher: shops at hot topic, thinks Firefox is a good Mac app, waiting for OS X port of PayrollPro 2000, follows any hint of a fashion trend (instead of setting them!), wouldn't know Clarus from Carl Sagan.

real Mac user: someone true to who they are, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They're not fond of rules and they have no respect for the status quo. The ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world.

My white iBook has the same problem!

[Anonymous Coward]

I stay up late eating nachos and watching pornos on my ibook G4, and I've noticed that not only is my iBook turning orange, but so's my dick! I sense a class action law suit in Apple's near future...

It's completely normal--

[theraccoon]

This is normal, really. You know those toothbrushes with the blue strip, and when it fades you're supposed to replace it? Yeah, it's like that, but when your MacBook turns yellow, you're supposed to buy another.

The support threads Apple doesn't want you to read

[Zhe Mappel]

Here are MacBook owners on the Apple boards discussing their frustration and attempts to, er, get the yellow out, which is a major crisis in aesthete land. Not only that, but it's bringing people out of the woodwork to describe other problems with their BananaBooks. It's all too much for Apple moderators, who've shut down both discussions:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID =2516244
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID= 516645&tstart=0

Locked discussions get a terse, "Unless otherwise noted, your Submission should either be a technical support question or a technical support answer." Er...what part of it's turning #@$%^! yellow!!! don't you understand?

It's Apple who switched ... thank god.

[argent]

real Mac user: someone true to who they are, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes.

The troublemakers switched to Free UNIX long ago.

It's Apple who switched... chasing the troublemakers around again.

And thank god they did. They've got a good handle on user interface, but no bloody clue about operating systems.

Mac OS X doesn't need a dual-core to beat XP.

[argent]

It's sad then that OS X needs so much horsepower to achieve the same level of usability as XP on the TX.

No amount of horsepower can give XP the usability of OS X. My first "modern" Mac was a pre-G3 Powermac 7500 with a Sonnet upgrade card using XPostFacto to run OS X 10.2 Jaguar. That was a G3/400, not even a G4, and within a week I'd quit booting up my Pentium 4 except to play games.

Since then I've upgraded my Wintendo to an Athlon X2 3800+, upgraded my Mac to a Mac Mini (first generation, G4/1.4). The Mac's no mor ethan 1/4 the speed of the Wintendo, probablyless, but I wouldn't dream of trying to use XP for anything but games.

It's not OS X that's making the Macbook Pro run hot. It's the Macbook Pro design team screwing up somewhere. It's a hardware problem (or firmware, in the system management controller) not software,

Isn't this normal in rev1 Macs?

[Ruby Wednesday]

Seeing as how so many rev.1 Macs fall apart/explode/eat your cat, this is a pretty minor problem. Good thing I'm waiting for rev.2 (hopefully with Leopard)