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Spain Adds 'Copyright Tax' to Blank Media
Poker Forums writes "Just read on Zeropaid that Spain has recently voted in compulsory copyright licensing, levying a tax on all blank media. This includes cd-r, dvd-r, flash media, printers, scanners, cell phones, everything. The tax will be collected by the government and 'given to the copyright holder.'"
... given to a my ass...
The tax will be charged indiscriminately to manufacturers who, according to SGAE (our particular RIAA), are the ones taking advantage of all this """illegal""" copying (private copying for personal use with no money involved is still legal in Spain), and will mostly be given to this same organization. Problem is manufacturers are gonna pass the tax on to customers, and so the cycle of life closes.
And SGAE, of course, will use the money not to pay the authors, but to spread the word through adoctrination lectures, or to pay for lobbies to bully Brussels, or to cry louder about how bad people is and how poor authors are getting (despite SGAE's doubling benefits every year...).
The one improvement of this law is that now the tax has to be proportional to the cost of the medium; currently when we buy a DVD+R, the tax is higher than the price of the DVD itself... And stupidity didn't get to add DSL and Cable lines to the list, though they were in the top 10...
The title should read "Spanish politicians surrender to stupidity" (which wouldn't be so new, either), or sth similar...
My 0.02 cents
They just legalized copyright infringement.
...and misdirect the funds. That's what they do. Does it really matter which scumbag gets the money though? Politicians or "copyright holders".
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
open source and fsf and gnu? If someone buys soem cdr's and burn copies of free software, who gets paid?
Only 'flamers' flame!
Does slashdot hate my posts?
Okay, if laws are in place to fairly compensate the copyright owners by taxing recordable media the offshoot of that should be continued "enjoyment" of what we've come to know as fair use. Ostensibly this tax should cover disbursements back to the artists for any copying and/or sharing consumers do.
A question from The Fine Article: "Is this an example of what is to come in the United States or other parts of Europe?", isn't this already a tax in place on recordable media in the United States? I seem to remember that a while back, or was it Canada?
Regardless, the entertainment industry can't have it both ways, they either tax in advance and anticipation of our "abuses", or they implement draconian DRM. Unfortunately it's looking like they're getting both.
So, who determines which copyright holders get what, and how much they get? Seems to me this is a system just ripe for abuse, with minimal controls on the right money getting to the right people... ... and, in other, no-way related news, I released a couple of songs I sung myself last year, and while I am a crappy singer/writer, I believe someone in Spain may be listening to my songs right now, and burning them and distributing them to their friends.
Can I have my check now, please?
One of these days i'm going to find this 'peer' guy and reset HIS connection!
..how do I get access to my share of this money?
To be able to manipulate governments so they force your business model to work.
I guess thats my problem I sell things if people don't buy them I have to do something else I never considered wrecking everyone else life so mine could be a little better
So that will make it legal to burn any media to CD/DVD as you are paying the copyright holder?....
Does this mean you can circumvent any DRM or other technical measures to protect the material on other media / files to burn them since you have paid this tax?....
Do I get tax back if I end up burning a coaster?....
Can you easily get tax back if its material you own the copyright to that you are burning?....
Does this include Software products and movie DVD rips and if so are you going to have to tell the media supplier what you intend to make copies of?....
Thought Not.
More accurate question might be:
Is this yet another revenue stream (on top of all the others) for someone somewhere who feels that their profits are not what they could be, and another kick to the teeth of fair use (If that exists in Spain)?
Yes.
Either prosecute people for copyright infringement (regardless how insane the laws surrounding that are) or leave the blank media alone. - By the way shouldn't the tax be on paper not Printers? after all the paper is the media. Mobile phones? Are they going to pay the copyright holders of the text messages I receive too?
If this is true then this is madness, and needs to be challenged before it spreads.
'given to the copyright holder.'
Which one? Bono or Spielberg?
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
...and it has still recently voted a DMCA like text.
They should tax brains too, you can store a lot of tunes into them, + it wouldn't be a huge cost for our lawmakers.
\u262D = \u5350
If your business model can't survive, get the government to legislates mandatory taxes that get passed onto you. I believe this concept is called either Communism (or similiar controlled economy) or Welfare. I don't know which.
I would have people make copies of my photos/minor_software_project/whatever on CD-R and then sue the Spanish RIAA if they don't send me my portion of payments. It's really odd that they represent ALL copyright holders. Like they represent ALL musicians, even the ones not signed up with RIAA companies. This RIAA racket has to be taken on and bought down in flames like the Hindenburg one day.
In other words, we wouldn't need to walk through shoplift detectors, have the store check the shopping bags and carts on large purchases, or be videotaped in every place of business if inventory wasn't disappearing behind the employees' backs.
It's a disappointing state of affairs. But watch where you're heaping the scorn -- they have to collect this from everybody (including people who just want to make a phone call or backup their computer) because otherwise the artists can't stay in business. Much as prices go up in a store when shoplifting becomes rampant; they need to pay for the missing merchandise, the cameras, and the detectors and consequently the higher cost is bourne by marking up the goods that are sold to the honest customers.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
But....WHAT FUCKING Copyright holder?!?!? Are they going to just pay every fucking artist in the country some money from this, much like the federal universal service fee here in the states?!?!?! What a bunch of garbage!
----- I have bad karma for a reason! -----
These measures just bring no solutions.
They only create a new black market for blank media.
It's also a known fact that the vast majority of
copyright infringement, at least on the movies front,
come from bootlegs from Asia, which have nothing to
do with blank media.
I'll give you a hint as to the most significant ways a retail outlet loses inventory... it isn't by shoplifting and walking out the front door.
It goes home with the employees.
So remind me again why I walk through those shoplifting detectors? Especially since thy get set off every 3 minutes in some stores for almost no reason.
To which copyright holder? The one who holds the copyright for "blanks"? What about blank paper? You can infringe copyright on that. How about pens, pencils? Crayons? Markers? A sharp stick in the dirt?
Dear Spanish friends, this is el stupido.
FLR
Just another excuse to tax something, if you ask me. They might as well increase taxes on batteries, since they can be used to power devices that may or may not be used to infringe on copyrights someday.
In other words, their artists' profits are increasing faster than theirs. No wonder Spain needed a new tax!
It's worth pointing out, however, that this kind of infringement is a big thing in Spain. In the area I saw, it was so ingrained that they called it 'top manta' (manta == sheet), named after the sheet that the street-sellers of usually pirated music use, so that if the police come along, they can grab the four corners of the sheet, bundle the music into it instantly, and disappear.
I go through mountains of CDs and DVDs to back up files. I've never in my life downloaded any copyrighted music or software. If I was in Spain I'd be required to help pay for people illegally downloading? Why not send me a traffic ticket every month because some people speed?
I remember being told that in Ireland, you're allowed to live there tax-free so long as you're a writer or an artist -- I also heard that situation was being re-assessed, but anyhoo...
I think all of these taxes might potentially be a good way to promote the arts. Give artists tax-free status, and offset the potential tax revenue loss by using these tech-media taxes as a substitute.
It's not like the artists actually make money on the deal unless their stuff sells, so it's not pure communism or anything.
I've never been a fan of these blank media taxes, but there is a way that could make this more palatable, to me at least.
I'm do support strong copyrights, but also a strong defense of fair use. I was a songwriter who did manage to eke out a modest living from sales and royalties back in the day (and considered breaking even on tour a rare event). But I always saw these blank media taxes (along with early forms of DRM like Copy Code) as an unfair burden on musicians and songwriters who are at that difficult early phase of their career arcs. It may be a small percentage of the cost of media, but in the long run it adds up, and it's money that could be better spent on things like more media, guitar strings, drum sticks, software, hardware, and the all important elixirs: coffee and beer.
And I never liked that the taxes collected went to the top tier of artists. For every one of these, a Springsteen, a Madonna, a Bono, there are 10,000 strivers, sequestered in a home studio, trying to get that vocal or cowbell track perfect.
So, I'd feel more comfortable if half of the funds levied by these taxes could benefit the unsigned, the unheard. Start with public school music programs, which are woefully underfunded as it is, and often fall victim to budget cuts. That's how I started out, a nine-year-old trumpet player in a grade school orchestra. Maybe there could be some sort of indie label lottery, where some band's vanity label gets a $10,000 infusion of funds, maybe even a promotional campaign sponsored by Maxell, Imation, TDK, Sony, or some other producer of blank media ("The stars of tomorrow use our CD-RWs today...").
Idealistic, I know. But why the hell not?
k.
"In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
No one expects the Spanish imposition...of a tax!
THis is supposed to be a tax to pay to copyright holders but no system to identify which ones
and no exemption for blank media that is not used for non-copyright material. Can you say
"THIEVES"? Can you use it in a sentence? "Them Spaniards are nothing but a bunch of damn thieves!!!" Another page in the history of governments screwing every last penny they can out of the public. You can be sure that the same tax will be coming here soon. Imagine your
typical garage band having to pay a royalty to themselves(if indeed any of the tax money is ever paid out)
Does this make it ok to copy stuff now?
If not, then who exactly is the money going to?
Seriously though, the assumption that every CD burned is pirated is rather disgusting. Does that mean home movie compilations are officially owned/leased by the recording industry now?
Here in .NL (Netherlands for you non TLD ppl) we have this system for a long time now.
We pay for blank media even if we use it for our own documents, BUT there is one upside, thanks to the EU we can get our media in other country's wich don't have this stupid tax. (yay to Germany)
I noticed ppl saying "They just legalized copyright infringement." this is here partailly true (just as in Spain)
By law it's LEGAL here to have a copy of a music CD/video DVD for own use WITHOUT owning the original, so in plain words we are allowed to download music and movies from the internet for own use.
Downside is, we are not allowed to distribute them, so Bittorrent/Kazaa/etc. are not the best choice because they also require uploading, but downloading from newsgroups are just fine here.
What would you do without a monitor? Sit and look stupid behind a keyboard and a mouse
Oblig wikipedia link: Top manta
Translation: Google translatifier
Oh, and manta does technically mean 'blanket', but sheet is a more accurate translation in cultural terms.
I know (especially in examples like this) that this is NOT a USA phenomenon. other gov's are adopting these measures, probably under duress (money does talk you know) but they're caving in, regardless.
;)
I don't think the entertainment biz is going to get what they expect. people DO feel strongly about their media rights. rebellion is already in the form of piracy. don't you music/movie guys get it? the more you call 'us' criminals, the more 'we' will STRIVE to give you a taste of your own medicine (aka, fight dirty).
now, if you act all friendly and STOP making everyone guilty unless proven innocent, then we can call off the dogs and stop bypassing you entirely (via places like allofmp3.com and others). but blatantly making a money grab on blank media and acting like its 'reparations' - that's just so transparent its not even funny.
but realize you can't have it both way. if you tax someone as an IP pirate, then you have just given EXPRESS PERMISSION to ignore the copyright laws! you forcin' us to do the time but there ain't no crime! so to speak
if you force us to do the time, we WILL do the crime. bank on it.
stop the war on the customer now! ask a fair price for a fair product and you'll find 'we' are reasonable people. shaft us (like you have for the past 30+ yrs) and you'll get NO respect from 'us'.
'nuff said?
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
So let me get this straight, all you need to be is a copyright holder and you get free money from the Spanish government? I always thought my preschool performance of Mary Had a Little Lamb was good... SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!
Excuses Are Like Assholes - Everybody's Got One
Since they've already paid for it through the tax. Obviously.
Deleted
So does that mean that if I make backups of my data, I can expect to be able to deduct this from my income tax?
Does it mean that I can make copies of copyrighted material as long as I don't sell them for profit? After all, each "copyright holder" is being reimbursed implicitly aren't they?
TFA doesn't to a good job of defining things (in fact it's a bit misleading). "Compulsory licensing" does NOT simply mean taxing everyone for blank CDs and giving the money to publishers/artists/whoever. Compulsory licensing means YOU GET A LICENSE (permission to make copies), regardless of what the media companies want. It's the rights holders who are "compelled," not the users. The tax itself is the presumed "cost" of that license. There's supposed to be a quid pro quo here.
Truth be told, I'd be pretty happy to pay a few cents extra for each blank CD, etc., if it meant that all my (and others') private copying in unprotected formats was presumed to be legal/licensed. That's a good trade-off, and the resulting market pressures would likely cause a decrease in prices and a lack of DRM ($1.00 for a single restricted audio track? Come on!). My bet is that this would likely save lots of money in the long run.
But the parent poster is right -- the media companies are trying to get it both ways: getting this money without giving me any substantial license to DO anything. What are the Spanish people getting in return for this? Anyone care to elaborate?
1. Make a bunch of random crap and file for copyrights
2. ???????
3. Profit!!
I think this is true until further notice. The article was hardly and article, but what it did say did not mention how the money would be apportioned amongst the copyright holders. If I have copyrights on crap no one would buy, do I still get a cut?
Anyway, I've got to head out and make some stuff to copyright in Spain, and set up a bank account there.
That means you (the people) deserve everything they give to you...
Deleted
as much as I dislike paying a tax/fee on the blank media I purchase, I can't see any other way to compensate artists who lose money due to illegal copying. DRM is a joke; no matter the method employed, the recording industry and even the software industry will never be able to stop pirating. As the cops learn how to more effectively combat crime, criminals learn how to better commit it. I'm willing to pay a tax on blank media, and in fact, I might even go so far as to promote it *IF* the money goes to those artists that actually need it as opposed to the multi-millionaire, so called 'successful' artists or into the pockets of record company or RIAA execs. Give the money to struggling artists (within reason, not just joe blow who decides to form a 'band' to collect) regardless of popularity in order to encourage diversity and growth in music.
Lose: misplace or fail || Loose: not bound together
1. Publish a Blank CD
2. Get the government to collect royalties on blank media.
3. ????
4. Profit!
So, all the frothing at the mouth about copyright infringement being legalized by this is probably not productive, but a few countries have this now (I remember France and Canada being mentioned), and I just can't see how this sort of thing can be legal.
Can someone come up with a precedent, where the government arbitrarily taxes the revenue of one industry and gives the money to a few corporations in another one, because some small fraction of the products of the former could potentially be used by consumers to infringe on the rights of the latter? How much of a "right" they have to the material is a different question, legally, they technically, currently have those rights (is that enough veiled qualifiers for "raping the artists"?)
I guess I just want our corporate overlords to at least pretend to feel some kind of mild bashfulness about screwing us.
But seriously, if I'm in Spain and I buy some CDRs to back up some data, their music industry will get money for that? What the fuck?
sic transit gloria mundi
Since it would be impossible for them to track which artists are having how much of their music copied, I assume they're just going to divide it up among the artists. What do I have to do to get a cut? If I just record some music and host it on a Spanish server is that enough? Then I'd be an artist, and someone could be downloading it and recording it to CDs. I want some money, damnit.
The Spanish people are now justified in copying whatever the hell they want. If they're being taxed for it, they might as well get to enjoy it.
bah.
Following history, revolutions and revolts, society usually seems to get to a certian point before collectivley it gets sick of tax burdons, restrictions on speech and creativity and then either a revolt or a revolution is staged.
In a digital age where we are dealing with Intellectual Property, digitial censorship and hidden taxes it makes me wonder just what excatly a revolt or revolution against it would be like?
I can't imagine thousands of people marching through the streets finding government officals and decapating them, but you would think we will eventually get to a point where everything just gets too much.
We are now in the 21st century and are beginning to see the downsides of all the technology we have adopted, in the late 90's it was promosing, now we are seeing new emerging ways to control us, deny us of fundamental rights and governements seem to be finding new ways to write laws and profit from it.
Here's the full text of the recent amendments to the Spanish intellectual property law. It's a .pdf. Nasty stuff, I tell you...
"biz" has to be the gayest word in the English language.
Sooner or later, the pretense will be dropped, and Rich Uncle Pennybags will arrive in his roadster, with his terrier, to pick up large bags of money by direct income taxation for copyright compensation.
Each citizen will be required to pay either $200/yearly, or 10% of the value of their approved, licensed, DRM'd musical entertainment product.
And for those who fail to comply....
Do not pass Go, Do not collect $200.
Most governments maintain a concept known as eminent domain. Essentially it means that they can take whatever they want from whoever they want in exchange for what the government believes is a reasonable level of compensation.
So technically the copyright holder of all IP in Spain is the Spanish government.
they have to collect this from everybody (including people who just want to make a phone call or backup their computer) because otherwise the artists can't stay in business.
Well, even better then; I don't want artists to be in business.
Hello FRIEND, I am a former recording excutive from Spain. Due to a recent change in our goverment I am unable to obtain the blank CDs from the LARGE wharehouse that my family owns. If you, being a foriegn Citzen would be kind enough to let me ship the CDs to your personal post office box. I would be more than willing to give you 10% of the CDs once they have been recorder. please respond IMMEDIATELY. Timing is of Most importance.
Thank YOu in advance for you help Friend.
with somebody else...
who's also in their own home...
and...
umm...
Heh, look, it's this year's Britney clone! Don't you want to run out and buy her studio album, live album, remixed live album, and tour DVD? If you say no, we'll know you're copying it...
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
If you (or someone) could shed some light on this, that would be very helpful. Then we could be discussing the specific stupidity of the law instead of guessing at which parts make utterly no sense and which parts make some sense, but remain stupid.
Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
It's good to see that the USA is not the only country where the "intellectual property" regime has a death grip on the legislature. Canada's got a fee like this too.
Penny - plain text accounting
I would vote for a 'copyright tax' of, say, $0.25/disc, for instance, on one condition: All or most of the money can go directly to RIAA, but they have to STFU and cut DRM. FOREVER.
Unpleasantries.
As a canadian who pays a similar tax on media, I have to disagree with your assesment.
This tax is one step further *away* from loosing your right to copy audio files. A step away from legally protected DRM.
And if you don't like the tax, buy harddrives. They are cheap, less likely to fail, and a lot easier to use. I have 30 movies and 8 *seasons* of television shows on one of my harddrives. Heck I'm too lazy to convert movies to XVID, I just dump them out raw. I have a flash based mp3 player and I set the auto-play options for audio cd's on my PC to just rip the thing. I view CDs/DVDs as an incovenince I am glad to be rid of.
Considering the pending obsolecence of shiny platic disks, this seems like a good thing for Spain. Enjoy the freedom to do what you want with your data while you have it.
-- http://thegirlorthecar.com funny dating game for guys
When they tell me they'll put copyright tax on my hard driver or my SD card then I'm going to fight. In 5 years CD's will be obsolete. Then they can charge tax - my ass.
What I find interesting, is that these taxes are popping up in countries with the Leftist (by American standards) governments — Canada, France, Spain. Meanwhile, the supposedly "corporate-owned" Republican-controlled America is holding up...
Yes, even though the blank CDs intended for music recording are taxed here since 1998, the ones for data are not...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
So does that mean Spain's accepting the fact that piracy happens and they're not gonna go ape shit on 12-year-olds?
I make websites and stuff. Buy one.
How do I get in line to collect from Spain?
Given that the recording industry sees a lose in profits it feels is due to copyright infrigement a large scale (i.e. consumers instead of a small company). In theory the infrigers (sp?) have the abilty to change the copyright law (in a theorical USA governed by the people) the best solution would be to change the way profits are made.
One Possible way...
Using a peer to peer system to allow users to swap files with other users on their buddy list. During the use of the client, users would be presented with one or two ad banners at a time. By selling ad they could produce profits and disturibue royalites based on a percentage of ad sales according to popularity measured in either tradtional record sales, radio request, or downloads.
Just a quick idea, but why can the people who went to school and are paid to come up with new market models and prevent bussiness models from dying off like the current record industry?
I thought the mafia were Italian, not Spanish...
The reason girls and Windows users don't understand UNIX is because all the documentation is in Man files.
OK, so the SGAE have managed to get a frightening and obviously silly law passed, and now the greedy corporations they represent can get more money from everyone. What concerns me, more than the law itself, is that this could be taken as a major stepping stone towards some pretty scary changes. Anyone care to preduct SGAE's future plans?
Big Money.
Mark me as redundant by saying so if you like, but I don't think it can be said enough.
There are two things wrong with this action:
1. If the copyright organization (cartel?) can continue with civil and criminal law suits for infringement, then it is clear that this measure is not for the purpose of compensating copyright holders for illegal activity. (Theoretically, I should be able to purchase blank DVD media in Spain and set up a business where I copy copyrighted material and sell it to the public at an attractive price. After all, would I not have already paid for the right to do so by purchasing the media in Spain?)
2. If there is no way to know which artistic works are to be copied, then how will the money find its way to the artists whose works are being illegally copied? The answer is obvious. The money doesn't go to compensate artists, and if it does, it won't go to the artists affected in correct proportion.
I hope to see some serious retaliation against the "copyright industry." They have been going too far for too long. They write their own laws, they collect their own taxes, they perform their own criminal investigations and all but convict in their own courts. If ever there was something out of control, this situation defines it.
What they "should" do is not give the money to the SGAE/RIAA/whoever but set up an independant body that is responsible for disbursement on a fair and equitable basis (to be determined).
The SGAE does not need (or deserve) to be included because with the above model of "digital distribution" and "goverment funding" the SGAE/record labels no longer have a purpose.
Thus is acheived what was desired.
So where does this leave small businesses like me, who write software which is distributed to customers on CD/DVD. I either have to absorb this cost or pass it on, yet none of my actions are remotely related to the music industry or copywritten content (other than my own).
These sort of levies are grossly unfair because they target everyone, irrespective of the relevance.
Go permanent? In your dreams and my worst nightmares.
Thanks to the graduated income tax, that's mostly true in America, too.
If I take the used media back to the store and prove that I only used it for my own material they should give me back my copyright tax!!
You want fun, go home and buy a monkey!
Now I will buy all my blank media in Spain, and copy content as much as I damn please. The copyright tax will take care of the producers. If the RIAA/ES/whoever comes after me, I'll just wave my tax-paid media at them.
What a bunch of wankers.
--
make install -not war
So it LEGALIZES copying movies, music and software - because the copyright holder has already got his share from blank medias. Nice, no more need for RIAA or MPAA :-)
So piracy is not not stealing - they already get their paychecks.
We have similar law in Finland, therefore all reasonable finns have been ordering blank cd/dvd from Estonia or Germany for years. 40-50% of empty media price is copyright tax. Amount is decided by ministry of education and Finnish RIAA equivalent, Teosto. Value added tax alone is rated at 22%, so taxes and other bullshit rate is redicilous. Less than taxing of automobiles or alhocol though in this nordic taxing h(e)aven.
They even proposed the tax to extend hard disks once. It would have risen hard drive prices quite costly. Rate is 0.5 c per minute. Yes, definition is minute, it's tough nowhere said what bitrate is used so they can actually pull it totally out the hat. Somebody calculated that 200G harddrive would have cost thousands of dollars/euros, but luckily somebody had brief monent of sanity in Finnish parliament. We are eagerly wondering if it will happen ever again.
RIAA and MPAA are the real crooks. They are the theft. They sell shit with huge profit margins. Just like drug dealers. Piracy haven't stopped some hip hop star buying fifth MB 500 SL. Virgin records haven't collapsed. People still go movies.
Pirate on. Copy, crack and swap 'til you drop. Change the system of big bullshit corporations and their dark lawyer armies.
Is the estate of John Cage, of course!
Remember, authors and artists usually have no choice but to market thier works through corporations. This only benifits the corporations.
Curses! The RIAA has finally discovered that all Data is really just encrypted music, as it COULD be rearranged in a fashion in which it reproduces PIRATED MEDIA, STOLEN from our mighty overlords.
I am also a spaniard (too lazy to register, sorry) and I want to add that there are some things that the TFA doesn't mention:
The new LPI (Ley de Propiedad Intelectual == Intelectual Property Law) establishes a tax over any device capable of holding media (audio or video), such as CD-Rs, DVD-Rs, videotapes... but also iPods and pendrives. The preliminary draft of the law also included a tax over HDs but this was removed from the final draft due to outcry from computer distributors.
On the other hand, the old LPI (from 1996) forbade the copy of copyrighted content for redistribution to other people, but didn't mention anything about DRM. There was a legal item called "private copy", meaning that you can do one (and only one) copy of your copyrighted content for private use as a backup. Now, according to the new law, not only is specifically illegal to override any DRM scheme: the law also makes illegal the POSSESSION of any program intended for override DRM, such a DVD ripper, or any hardware intended for overriding other 'electronic countermeasures'.
Many people say that there is a patent contradiction here, since you are paying for a right that you can't actually use.
Previously, the rationale behind the tax was this 'private copy'. Now, the rationale is to compensate for the losses that the recording companies have when you copy content from one media to another: for example, since you can copy your old videotape movie to a DVD, you are not buying a DVD for a movie you already have; or you are not going to buy a MP3 for your iPod of a song that you already have on CD-audio.
And, funny thing, we have been paying the tax long before the new law was approved.
At least now the tax is a percentage of the value of the blank media; according to the previous "canon" (law) the tax was a fixed amount of money that was about a quarter of the blank media value, but since the prices went down and the tax didn't, today the final price of a DVD is 60% tax.
Also, some people say that since the tax has been extended to CD-DVD burners, you end paying the tax twice-on the media and on the recorder.
And no, you can't get a refund if you use your CDs to burn non-copyrighted content. For example, the ministry of justice is paying tons of money to the SGAE (think of a fusion RIAA+MPAA+AAP) because a copy of all the judicial proceedings on every court have to be stored in 'electronic form' (CD-r).
The SGAE, the law's main supporter, says that the final draft is not enough since doesn't include taxes over internet connections, HDs , and "any other format capable of holding or transferring copyrighted content"
As a side note, one of the SGAE top execs, who also happened to be an artist years ago, had to run out of a rock festival recently because the public was throwing stones at him; this story was mentioned on all news sources in spain, but all of them falied to mention the ultimate reason for the people's hate towards the exec.
I'm a photographer do I have to pay the tax on my blank memory cards since they will be holding my copyrighted work. So will this be on hard drives too. Hey if it's on printers then why not monitors, after all they're also displaying copyrighted materials and let's not forget speakers. What good is stolen music if we can't hear it, where does it actually end.
You buy a CD/DVD for your personal use with your onw data and you pay right on the spot a fine without commiting a crime, judgement and no possible defense. In my point of view such tax is illegal
*flashes open trench coat and speaks with whispering voice*
Hey.. wanna buy some cd-rw's? Got all kinds.. all copyright tax free..
'Burglary tax' to be added to Burberry caps and Kappa tracksuits.
True stories and anecdotes, compiled from Slashdot comm
So how much do I get when I burn 1000 CDs of my own photos?
Stores raising their prices in response to shoplifting doesn't legitimize shoplifting... neither should a tax on blank media legitimize piracy.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Spain being a member of the EU and given there's an open and free market of goods around here, for objects of great enough value just mail order them from another country and (lo and behold) you don't pay stupid spanish taxes. (actually, if you choose the right country to order from you even pay less VAT).
;)
I reckon the spanish government has just created a great business oportunity to open a spanish-language webstore across the border in Portugal or France selling mobile phones.
It's a great shot in the arm for cross-border commerce and the common market
PS: Living in Holland, i regularly buy stuff from webstores in England, Belgium and sometimes even France, though for the last two it helps if you speak french.
Please don't be so naive. The anyway, you can still "buy your harddrive" is not a very good one. Firstly, SGAE doesn't only pursue to put a tax on CDs and DVds. No, they certainly don't want to stop there. They have also stated that they are trying to get one over ISPs, which also should monitor their connections for illegal software (remember the think of the children news of yesterday here in slashdot? same). And of course, they want to tax HDs, external or internal, and pen drive and probably, your ass if you let them..
Then you can say: uh oh buy them abroad. But you would know that if everyone thought so, you will end up with all countries having the same laws against the common sense.
BTW, for those of you who don't know it, in Spain there's a *general* HATE against SGAE. We have had widespread videos over the net against SGAE, and even well known humorists have joked about them in television. Although they don't mind, and on the other hand, they do their propaganda job very well.
How are printers blank media? Shouldn't they be taxing the paper?
...As P2P is legal there and you can't be sued for filesharing
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
this is despicable.
If I buy blanks to archive data to which I own the copyright (eg photos, home videos, etc)...
can I claim a tax deduction?
Sparks:Gadget:Beer Maker
so the sunny spain finally joins the countries with stupid men writing stupid laws about copyright infringement club! we have a similar regulation here in italy (introduced a couple of years ago), thus we pay taxes on CDs and DVDs as well (but not on hard drives nor flash memories). the worst part of the story is that this tax is about 2% of the cost of the media. i.e. if a blank DVD costs .30 euros, Joe Burner should pay it almost the same. to be generous, we can say .31 euros. actually, the price of a blank DVD here is about 1 euro (or more, approximation here)! when retailers go greedy...
fortunately, geeks like me can easily buy blank media in germany online stores.
So, you're able to treat all copyright 'protected' works as if it's free, as long as you copy it on media which caries this tax. Good work spain, you have now nearly completely legalised copyright infringement. Only thing I'm missing is this tax on internet connections (would make uploading and downloading legal).
As soon as a copyright infringement case gets to court, the defendant can easily say: "but I have already paid for the copyrighted works." and that would get the case thrown out of court.
As an added bonus; you can ask the organisation which collects the tax to prove you that you are infringing on their copyrights. They most probably cannot, so you can demand a refund - even in court if it's needed.
In short: consumer organisations should make a lot of noise about this and be prepared to collect refunds for those ppl that do not infringe on copyrights.
The same stupid law exists in Latvia.
....such taxes do exist in spain since ages ago, before 80s, they have been applied in magnetic tapes (music, video etc.) This is only a update of such tax to new media.
They need to tax paper, because that's used in photocopiers.
They need to tax food, because that's used in copyrighted recipes.
They need to tax scanners and digital cameras, because they can be used to capture images of copyrighted works.
They need to tax chairs, because the person doing the copying of copyrighted works usually sits in one.
They need to tax wood, because that's used in furniture upon which the equipment used to copy copyrighted works usually sits.
They need to tax magnets, because they can be used in speakers that a person can use to listen to copyrighted works.
They need to tax monitors, because they can be used to view.
Cool... after all, I've already paid my share...
(sarcasm)
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Since the SGAE represents *all* copyright holders and collects funds on their behalf, we should expect the FSF (as the copyright holder of vast amounts of GNU software) and Linus (as the primary copyright holder for Linux) to receive a proportion of that income.
And the SGAE can't easilydodge that responsibility either, because to do so would be to accept that much media gets used for things other than music and videos, and that therefore the tax should not apply to all media.
Can't have it both ways.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
I've got no kids but I pay for education, I have no car but I pay for roads...
Why should I be paying just because some selfish people decide to have kids/drive?
If you start fighting taxes for services you don't use, you'll end up a very bitter and lonely person.
No sig today...
The EU has been extremely vigilant to ensure that free trade can continue over the borders - even where local taxes are being compromised. USAians: It's like buying your stuff in a state with lower sales tax.
the EU has open borders. so use them!
The French DMCA-like law (known as DADVSI) has not yet been voted. Supposedly, it will go before the Senate on Friday morning and the Assembly in the afternoon. It will probably be voted, but this is not 100% sure. Then it will face constitutional review, since a number of its clauses are considered constitutionally dubious.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DADVSI
try this webstore if your media levies are too expensive (and you live in the right country):
www.wesellcd.com
Their prices are about half of those in the cheapest local computer stores in Sweden (residents of other countries: Your savings may vary.), shipping costs not included. Hint: co-order with your friends and split the shipping costs if you find them steep.
I see a lot of surprised responses around here. Well, the USA has this exact system in place, too--it's just not quite as broad in scope. "Data" CD-Rs are not affected, but "music" CD-Rs are affected as well as blank cassette tapes (and VHS tapes? Not sure on that one. I do know that in Canada, "data" CD-Rs are affected as well.) The lovely part is even though you've paid the "tax" to RIAA, that money buys you absolutely no rights--you can still be sued if you actually use the "taxed" media to play unlicensed content, and even if you are using the media strictly for personal use you are still paying guys like RIAA.
In short, it's really fucked up. They want compensation for piracy while simultaneously stamping out all piracy... they want to have their cake and eat it too.
And Congress--YOUR Congress--is letting them.
17 USC, Chapter 10, Subchapter A, Section 1008 specifically states:
No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution of a digital audio recording device, a digital audio recording medium, an analog recording device, or an analog recording medium, or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device or medium for making digital musical recordings or analog musical recordings.
Section 1001 defines a "digital audio recording medium" to be:
any material object in a form commonly distributed for use by individuals, that is primarily marketed or most commonly used by consumers for the purpose of making digital audio copied recordings by use of a digital audio recording device.
In more common language, this refers to audio/music CD-R discs, which are made to work in digital audio recorders. These discs are different from the more common data CD-Rs, in that they contain special digital markings (standard data CD-Rs won't work in digital audio recorders). In addition, by law a royalty has been paid on this blank media. These royalty payments are in turn distributed to copyright holders (see Section 1006 of the law cited above). They usually cost slightly more than data CD-R discs, but they can be found for less than $0.50 each.
So go ahead, make copies onto music/audio CD-R discs, even give copies to your friends. You can do so legally and without any moral problems - you've paid for the right to do so. (And the RIAA fought for this law. Thanks, RIAA!)
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
I'm a copyright holder... Where's my check?
Seriously. I hold copyright to items that may be illegally copied to digital and/or analog media without permission, so I'm entitled to a cut of the proceeds. Show me the money.
assuming only that
a) the tax is a fairly small percentage of the cost of the media
b) this makes it legal to fill my ipod with music that I don't have to pay for in some other way
I'd love to see the court case where someone is sued for sharing billions of tracks via p2p and they use the defence that it is paid for in full through the media tax on the hard drive it is distributed from, and the ipod it is downloaded to.
VLC Remote for iPhone and Android
Oh yeah, let's pay a tax to be free. Put this idea in your mind: We are free to copy for private purposes, and accepting a tax for this is just accepting a price for freedom.
Copyright holders have the exclusive right to sell copies and comercialize their products by any other way. This is enought for them. If they want to cut freedom to get more money the appropiate answer is not to pay a mafia tax to avoid being disturbed by them. The appropiate answer is to say no to mafia.
Any law that says we can not hear music is a law for slaves. Any law that says we can not copy music with the only purpose to hear it is a law for slaves. Any law that says we must pay a tax for the above rights, what kind of law is?.
"They play forbidden songs with forbidden instruments"
PS: I am Spanish
Let us not forget the great developments in privacy and security that countless Spaniards were forced to discover under [[Generalissimo]] Francisco Franco.
If Franco were alive today, he would certainly tax blank media and given the tax to copyright holders.
Of course, he would have killed the copyright holders first and taken ownership of the copyrights, but that's besides the point.
The point is that shortsighted legislation (or tyranny, for that matter) inspires people to creativly circumvent it: The Franco Factor.
O.K., the real point is... some things the Spaniards do post-Franko is funny... much in the same way that some things Germans do post-Hitler is funny, like leaving the coin change as a tip in restaurants.
When I moved to Spain 3 months ago, I was shocked to discover that blank DVD-Rs cost 1/piece and CDs are almost 0.90/piece. Suposedly this price is covering the music/movie industry losses. Also games (legaly sold) are 50% more expensive than other places. For example games 5-10 years old are sold for 15. Maybe this explains why their proficiency in both english and computers is quite limited.
A similar tax was introduced on CD and DVD in .dk to cover expenses due to a law that went along with it, allowing copying from borrowed originals, for example from libraries.
The law that allowed copying has since been revoked, but the tax is stille there.
SLOGEN [ http://ungdomshus.nu : Sebastian cover music]
Great! I'm going to form a new band called 'Blank'. Spain now owes me a lot of money.
[Insert pithy quote here]
that copying music CD's and movies etc is now rfecognised as legal there? Presumably their constitution or whatever prevents the spanish gov. from profiteering from illegal activity.
This is stupid and opens the door for more abuse/misuse. Next you will pay a gas tax the day you are born because they know someday you will get in a car.
Since the SGAE represents *all* copyright holders and collects funds on their behalf, we should expect the FSF (as the copyright holder of vast amounts of GNU software) and Linus (as the primary copyright holder for Linux) to receive a proportion of that income.
I actually believe that if there is a branch of the EFF in Spain, they should argue exactly this. Does the law explicitly state what determins is a copyright holder?
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
So that will make it legal to burn any media to CD/DVD as you are paying the copyright holder?....
Does this mean you can circumvent any DRM or other technical measures to protect the material on other media / files to burn them since you have paid this tax?....
Do I get tax back if I end up burning a coaster?....
Can you easily get tax back if its material you own the copyright to that you are burning?....
Does this include Software products and movie DVD rips and if so are you going to have to tell the media supplier what you intend to make copies of?....
Answer to all questions is NO.
They have 'double' funds, that is, you'll pay the copyright holder for your copy media, but, also, if you get caught by the police, they'll kick your ass and you'll pay a fine to SGAE. The Fair Use is inexistant on Spain, we have only a 'private use' law that allowed us to copy and download music for our own use without breaking the law, but, they are modifying it for banning it.
You're not getting also your money back if you burn your own media or recording, or if you do a bad burn. To receive money from SGAE from this 'new' kind of funding, you must be a registered author on SGAE, also, you must sell a minimun of 50 thousand (maybe 25 thousand, I cannot remember exactly now) records a year, and then, you'll receive money proportionally to the number of records you sold.
So, you sell 20 thousand records a year? Your money is for the Top Ten Music Assholes
You break a pair of DVDs while burning? More money for the top 'musicians'
You record backups, your holidays, or maybe you work in a design firm that sends cds to clients, or in a law firm, that save cases in CDs, or maybe in a security agency that uses tens or hundreds of cd's a day for saving CCTV videos? Another big bunch of money for them...
And yes, they prosecute copyright infringers AND blank media AND copiers also. for a lot of years now, we've been paying aditional money each time we bought a copier or a multifunction printer 'cos 'it could be used for copyright infrigment'. Think about 70 $ in a little multifunction thing, or maybe 200$ in a copier (a Xerox or something)...
FYI, until now, we were paying 'only' for blank CDs and DVDs, like 15 ADITIONAL cents for EACH blank CD, and 30 to 60 for each DVD. Think about duplicating pricing, yes...
OTOH, since it's sometimes hard to prove IP rights violations, does this mean that monies collected through this tax but not restored to IP rights holders will be returned to the spanish citizenry from the SGAE?
what's that, the tax has no such mechanism? why does this utterly fail to surprise me?
ed
...and it cost me 73 cents in taxes
I'll be a co-speaker at HOPE in NY this next month with Jorge Cortell, and we will be talking about copyright, and will talk about Spanish problems at your desire...
That's the scheduling:
Title: Selfness-Copyfight: From Censorship to New Business Models
Day/Time: Sunday 23 1700
Location: Area B
Holy cow, someone owns a copyright on blank media now!?
Quick, everybody! Hide your erasers! It's a circumvention device!
Alliance of Artists and Recording Companies pays artists and labels ("copyright owners") in the U.S. I have never been sure how they distribute royalties, but their page says "Chances are you would have earned royalties had you been signed up with AARC." Does that mean that your chances of accruing royalties under this right increases if you ask for them? Probably...
OK, since the people of Spain are now buying a cumpulsory license every time they buy anything that coupld possibly hold content, then they don't need to pay the license fee at the store again anymore, right?
If they buy an MP3 capable cellphone, and then buy a flash memory card for that cellphone, they've now bought two cumpulsory licenses for "one device". Is there a rebate form or something for this case?
Anyway, now that the suffering artists are now getting paid (sic) when someone buys the storage media, we don't need to ever hear about piracy again, no? After all, they've already paid their license fee...
Does the law explicitly state what determins is a copyright holder?
This spanish copyright law states the concepts of what must be suited for this tax and what must not, that is, audiovisual content is well suited for this tax, while software is explicitly excluded.
This tax is one step further *away* from loosing your right to copy audio files. A step away from legally protected DRM.
It's "losing", goddamnit! LOSING! I'm appalled at the English native speakers' loose orthography! I can't believe how many times a day I have to read that fucking misspelt word.
Democracy is dead. Now bow before the corporate plutocracy slave!
The stores are not lobbying the government for a tax on houses or apartment rent because people use those to store the stuff they shoplift.
They also remove that shoplifting tag when you buy the item, rather than require you to wear it from then, so those gates are not like DRM.
Come back again when you find an argument that makes sense.
So, you just have to self-publish an audio CD?
Doesn't matter if it stinks, or has no advertising, or whatever, you just get your slice of the tax, and you're set?
Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
Just look for ladrones (thieves).
As a Spanish citizen, I can only tell you one thing. NO ONE has voted for this, at least no "normal citizen" has. Some day we woke up and we had this upon us. (Well, the IT-aware people were fearing this, actually)
Well, of course, if a random computer-based business gets a higher HDD for their databases, it's obviously meant to contain downloaded music and pirated movies. Jesus...
Anyway. All the people behind the SGAE are a bunch of loser musicians, that in my opinion are plain crap, and because only a few persons buy their discs, they think it's because they are using piracy to get their awesome music...or they simply know that they can make more money like this. (Anyway, most of the popular spanish music is quite bad for my tastes, but they always manage to sell some new "hit" here and there by marketing it like if it was El Dorado in a CD, specially in summer...).
Anyway, this is quite enfuriating...they just go like EVERYONE is a pirate!...so, sorry for the angry tone...
Some strategical sector is deemed to be worthy of protection for the sustainment of individuals, like for instance agricolture. The way it is sustained may raise question, but few argue that agriculture or other strategial sectors should be left completely to market rules (ie no rules)
Music industry and generally speaking copyright industry is nowhere nearly as strategical, yet this method of collecting a levy on -blank media- is born on the assumption that the buyer is *guilty* of a crime so nefarious as copying a good ! Oh my ! On top of this the presumption of innocence until proven guilty is completely discarded and the *completely virtual*-assumed-extimated loss-of-profit is moved directly on the shoulders of ANY buyer.
Curiously, when my company fails to pay me or pays late or scams me into financial investment I am supposed to take ALL the risk and I am supposed to do MYSELF the diversification of risk, sustaining the entier cost of diverisification, usually pocketed by financial "experts". YET my loss-of-profit isn't protected by any special law, but copyright holder have this right to profit.
...just to let you know. There has been tax on CD-RW for a while now, so this is just the continuation. I think it's completely stupid to charge _anyone_ who is buying recordable media, regardless of what they are going to record on it. On the other hand, I would think that at least more than halve of CD-RW bought will get pirated material recorded on. But it's still silly. The good part is, I won't get sued for copying stuff. Not here. I like Spain.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
We've had this in the Netherlands for ages now, since somewhere in the 80's. It started with audio and video cassette tapes, then cd-r, dvd-r, etc.
The government is now investigating the company that 'handles' these taxes because none of it is getting to the people where it should actually be getting to, the company just gives their directors big bonuses and they keep building bigger headquarters. The 'home copy tax' may get dissolved because of this.
By the way, we're still getting prosecuted and attacked for exchanging MP3s, even though we're supposed to be paying through this home copy tax.
Screw that corrupt bunch.
That is only legal if you use digital home audio recording equipment, not if you use a general PC.
It's also legal if you do it with cassette tapes.
And I think it's only legal if you borrow legal media from someone, not if you get it from a random download on the net.
Due, get a f***ing clue. It is not piracy, it is recognized as a right. Besides, it's been proven that the "loss" for the copyright holders, if any, is substantially smaller than the revenue generated by the tax. Not to speak about my right to be considered innocent until proven guilty getting trampled over by the copyright management agencies, or getting taxed over and over again for the same concept (which is not legal in Spain, IIRC), or the income generated by the levy being unfairly distributed to a few well known artists who happen to be those that sell more (and thus, one'd think they suffer a lesser damage due to "private copying")... And so on and so on...
The Spanish voted Socialist, they got Socialist. This must be that wealth re-distribution that I always hear Marxists whinny about.
Because I'm not willing to spend 15 times $360 (local prices may vary) for 15 one-year broadband Internet access contracts, nor am I willing to buy 15 computers for people who own a CD player but not a computer.
www.joshferguson.org
" No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution of a digital audio recording device, a digital audio recording medium, an analog recording device, or an analog recording medium, or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device or medium [ed: Note, "or," not "and"] for making digital musical recordings or analog musical recordings. "
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
In Israel a similar tax on audio and video cassettes (not CDs or DVDs) was imposed about 10 years ago. The blank media tax was legislated together with changes of the IP law which legitimated violations of copyrights by individuals for private and domestic usage, as long as it is non-commercial violation. The tax goes to the federation of the phonographic industry in Israel (IFPI Israel).
:-)
A few years ago, IFPI Israel tried to prosecute libraries that lent audio CDs for domestic use, since people were violating their copyrights by copying those CDs. The result was that the supreme court ruled that copying an audio CD is the same as copying audio cassette, hence it legitimate as of copying audio cassettes, as long as it is for non-commercial bla-bla use...
About a year ago, IFPI Israel threaten (through the press) that they are planning to start legal actions against individuals who are downloading music and movies, similar to the RIAA and MPAA in the US. However, they were force to fold back from their initial intensions after they were told that there is a high possibility that the court shall rule that downloading music and movies for home use is legit. The final result is that now the recording industries cannot prosecute anyone for downloading music or movies for home use (i.e., burn on CD or DVD and watch at home), as it does not count as an offence according to the law and the supreme court interpretation of the law.
Strange thing I was in wally world myself today, when lo and behold they have music cds again. Well, heck they weren't there the last time I checked. I guess either some people buy them not knowing that data cds also work, or peole still use those standalones.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
They need to tax air, as the airwaves propagate through air
If you're going to be fined via this tax specifically to reimburse recording companies, you may as well make use of pirating. If being punished for something you have not done, you may as well do it and deserve the punishment you're getting anyway.
It's a girl!
One of my hard drives just failed :(
80GB worth of stuff gone.
Yes, most of it from the net.. but around 10GB was 'personal' stuff I can't replace.
Ouch.
My new hard drive arrives in 4 days.
*Sigh*
You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
This would be a wonderful system if:
1. The government has enough information to distribute the tax equitably to all copyright copyright holders.
2. It is no longer illegal to copy and redistribute anything, because the tax already compensates the copyright holders.
This system would be excellent for the economy because it would take full advantage of the fact that the marginal cost of software is near zero. Everyone would be able to use every software tool legally and the copyright holders would still get paid equitably. The cost-per-installation model squanders the potential of zero marginal cost.
Check out my women's designer clothing store.
How does this affect gamers in Spain, since most online games now use P2P for updates and patches?
If everyone were to start copywriting all their personal photos, personal writnigs, crappy songs, crappy videos and posted them somewhere inane, then in theory they would be eligible for some of that tax money??? What if we all started to do this and we all started to claim rights to these tax monies it would bring the system to it's knees....
Paul E. Bahre