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Has Anyone Seen the Moon Pictures?
NASA has received a lot of bad press in the last few years. Now in a stunning move to prove how much they have learned from past mistakes, it appears they have lost the magnetic tapes that recorded the first moon walk. They also seem to have misplaced the original recordings of the other five Apollo moon landings. Hopefully nobody has taped an episode of "The OC" over them yet.
Don't have time to double check but at first glance this appears to be a dupe:
1 3/1654200
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/
Yeah right. They know we're onto them, and now they try to rebuild the false belief that they actually did land on the moon.
The CTists got to them!
I can see it coming now... a tinfoil hat brigade shouting,
"that's because we never WENT to the moon!" and
"The original tapes would have proved it!"
How convenient, almost as if we never landed on the moon at all.
they are doing a horrible job of silencing the conspiracy theories.
admit it
Just getting rid of those tapes so the public can't more closely examine them...
(apparently the shadows of the CIA handlers on set show up)
"Ok, I have this original video with the first man on the moon, should I make some backups? Nah... Is it important that I remember where I put it? Nah..."
I guess the difference is that the Beeb never really thought these things were historically important, and hence had poor archiving rules. You'd hope that this was not the case at NASA.
After all the humans are going to land on Mars soon, and also todays graphics technologies can resurrect pseudomoon landing.
Nah you know what NASA folks are like with forgetting to convert things... it's actually sitting in a box on betamax, nobody wants to admit it.
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
With remakes being the rage in Hollywood, this shouldn't be a problem at all...
"Houston, we have a problem..."
Soko
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
What technology should I use if I want to make sure my video and photos of today is around for my great-grandchildren? (Assuming they care...) Is there a service that will keep them continually updated in a lossless digital format? How would they get paid?
J'aime mieux les méchants que les imbéciles, parce qu'ils se reposent. -- Alexandre Dumas
Logic, macros, and more
Goddard has been undergoing some organizational restructuring over years. That means office shuffling and renovations here and there. It often involves spring cleaning of all the junks piled up on top of shelves and cabinets.
My guess? Some old geezers probably had thrown them away into a garbage bin. It's probably got dumped into some industrial dumping site in New Jersey or somewhere... that said, it's SOL to me.
[I saved one optical disc from a garbage bin once...I'm sure it contains some IUE data, not the moon landing stuff... there is no way to read the damned thing anywhere to be sure...]
How could this be misplaced! This is arguably one of the greatest human accomplishments ever!
P.S. Let the flame wars begin!
PPS The Armstong moon walk is proably my earliet memory,and I remember watching it with my great Grandma who was born before the first auto and airplane.
..........FULL STOP.
It's okay - in a thousand years, there'll be a theme park on the moon, and nobody will care about the original moon landings anymore because the moon is boring.
Bottom line is this, we went to the Moon! If you truly believe that it was a hoax, please read this - and then for the love of FSM, get off the ADD drugs and re-evaluate...
I'm not fat, just big boned...
Your post advocates a conspiracy theory which is
( ) paranoid
( ) delusional
(x) impossible to confirm
(x) impossible to refute
Specifically, your theory fails to account for
( ) Stupidity of the general population
( ) Stupidity of the politicians
(x) Lack of supporting evidence
(x) Plenty of contradictory evidence
(x) Lack of a centrally controlling authority for conspiracies
(x) The facts can be explained without need for real conspiracy
(x) Scientists generally don't participate in conspiracies
(x) Failure to mention the Illuminati
and the following philosophical objections may also apply:
( ) Ideas similar to yours are easy to come up with, yet none have ever been proven
(x) That's what they WANT us to think
Furthermore, this is what I think about you:
( ) Sorry dude, you're batshit crazy
(x) This is a stupid idea, and you're a stupid person for suggesting it.
( ) Nice try, assh0le! I'm going to find out where you live and burn your house down!
it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
I found it. NASA can thank me later.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
FTA: "But the searchers may be running out of time. The only known equipment on which the original analogue tapes can be decoded is at a Goddard centre set to close in October, raising fears that even if they are found before they deteriorate, copying them may be impossible."
Is the article honestly trying to suggest that NASA couldn't reverse engineer a format and design a player for it if the original player was lost? I personally find that a little hard to believe. It just sounds like a convenience excuse to create a "give-up searching" date. In my oppinion these tapes are very important to our country's history. It's almost shameful to me to think they could have lost them so easily.
Go America!
I think the show comes on in about 15 minutes - I am strangely compelled to listen to the predictable call-ins from the reality-challenged.
Tonight is full moon actually, so it should get stuck somewhere in the trees.
Surely NASA can arrange for some pictures in my garden?
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Then why do you post AC?
You can still watch it and the material is everywhere, the problem is just that the original tapes were lost, which is a bummer, but not a huge bummer to me. It would've been nice to see some higher res footage of it than what we have now.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
I was recently at a meeting in Bethesda at the NIH and heard Don Lindberg, the director of the national library of medicine talk about long term information storage.
After going through all the normal stuff about media degrading and backups, etc -- he made a really interesting point: The only way to really ensure REALLY LONG storage - like tens of thousands of years is to keep having people accessing information. The point he made is that all the storage technology will continue to evolve, and it's only the information we stop accessing that will fall into danger of getting lost.
I thought it was a good point.
Why on earth do we not have access to the original data from the Moon landings? If we did, lots of people would have a copy around. Silly secretive state.
We better hurry and send him back up to redo it.
Table-ized A.I.
"Why, I have them right here..." -Mr. Goatse
Table-ized A.I.
I have them in my closet. I am holding the tapes hostage til government admits to the aliens that are kept at a secret lab.
NASA isn't an archival institution, so it's not surprising that something like this would happen. If tapes are found, they should be turned over to an organization for which the archiving of printed and recorded material is one of its central missions.
they were Mac users http://www.apple.com/ilife/imovie/.
You should be sorry. Does the Bible not say, "Thou shalt not suffer a crack-pot to live?"
And before anyone says thats the whole point of having them organized into specific directories/folders, since most corporate/government systems are inter-connected, you again end up with similiarly named directories/folders. (And god-forbid the system goes by ID number in which case its impossible to search for a file without knowing exactly what and where to look.)
Just fly back and retape the darn thing. With 1/3 of a century of technology and rocket development, that should be a breeze.
"Fix it"
Whoopsie Daisy!
These guys were getting too close for comfort (to note, I have absolutely nothing to do with this site - I just googled it). With looming Freedom of Information act requests the only option was to "loose" the films lest the community can finally find the films. This is has been the time honored way the govt covers everything up. Expect to see more about this "loss" as we move forward with investigating.
I mean, who here *really* thinks that NASA would just conveniently loose just the moon landings when there is so much controversy. Not just the first one, but *all* of them. Now they can just claim whatever they want and there is no way to track them.
This is just further proof that Aliens have visited the planet, after all there was no other reason they would try and shift the focus away from places like Roswell, add in that it "proved" that we were alone you got a tidy package.
Well, either that or 1960's film storage wasn't too good and they are underfunded. Sad to see it go, at least there are other films of it so it's not a total loss. Hopefully little was totally lost, it's sad to realise how little of our civilisation will remain for historians and how quick it occurs now.
------- Sorry about the spelling, I suffer from two problems. Dyslexia makes it difficult to spell well, lazy makes it
On the other hand, I am so tired of all these so-called "conspiracy theorists" who are making a conspiracy out of things that were NOT a conspiracy. I mean, look at what these poser conspiracy theorists are making conspiracies out of.
The poser conspiracy theorists will give you a bullsh*t conspiracy to keep you occupied from the real conspiracies that are occuring. Here is just some of the events they are sensationalizing into false conspiracies.
- The moon landing
- 9/11 (for pete sake! It was only five years ago!
- The Davinci Code
Now here is a list of unsolved mysteries and nefarious plots that are true conspiracies becausse no one wants to admit that they are occuring.- Peak Oil and Gas Prices (This one needs the most attention right now.)
- Big Brother and soulserveilance
- Corporate backrubs for governments/New World Order/World Trade Organization
- Suppressed technology and cures. (Marajuana does not count!)
- Subliminal Advertising. (for example: "Head on! Apply Directy to the Forehead" x3)
- Extraterrestrial Life (SETI needs your help BTW! The government is cutting their funding again.)
- The Kenedey Assassination
- Where's Jimmy Hoffa?
- Protecting the Earth from ourselves. (Bibles and Bombs do not mix!)
- Occult and paranorma phenomenon
I would recommend that the world spend a little more time tending to the second list and not the first list. But hey, people are stupid. They'd rather watch TV and let TV dictate what they should think. (I'm talking to you, Mr. I-watch-Fox-news-four-six-hours-in-the-evening.)Everyone else needs to put their glasses on and see the truth.
The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.
See, the fuzzy image was necessary to hide the little green men jumping in and out of the frame...
This is an obvious move in a complex conspiracy scheme. And by that I do not refer to those who deny the moon landing. I'm rather referring to a move by NASA scientists to get governments to stop fighting with themselves and kick-start the space race:
1) lose the original moon landing tapes
2) drum up foreign anti-american sentiment (however might they do that?)
3) attack the very achievement of the moon landing itself, using the "lack of the source" as proof
4) require that we send another mission to the moon to find the original lander, and build a base around it to serve as true proof of the event.
5) magically find the tapes in Armstrong's basement
I'll bet most north koreans already deny that the US landed on the moon.
(insert tounge into cheek)
-dave
6th Street Radio @ddombrowsky
somewhere?
Seem like awhile back a bunch of shit was put in a time capsule and cemented in somewhere.
NASA's new motto: "What? and you're perfect?"
For sale: Parachute. Used once. Never opened. Small stain.
"And I say that with zero emotional attachment. Not believing that we went to the moon doesn't give me a membership in a tinfoil-hat brigade."
Maybe not a tinfoil hat wearer (signifying paranoia, really) but you're a card-carrying member of the club of crazies like Erich Von Daniken, scientologists, Richard Hoagland, and creationists.
Why do supposedly smart people believe such stupid shit?
Indeed the posting of this as "we never went there anyway" even as a joke angers me. You'd think that after almost 40 years someone would spill the beans on the supposed secret? Well guess what, THERE WAS NO SECRET TO BE KEPT and even _if_ there was some way to bring idiots like you back in time, put you on a rocket, and land you on the moon, you'd still claim it was a movie set. There is no educating people like you because you will never admit that humanity is ever capable of doing extraordinary things. You'll attribute the Pyramids to space aliens and the Moon landings to fiction instead of the feats that people are capable of.
It's called denying reality, assuming the worst of everyone, and willful stupidity.
--
BMO
Just imagine the first landing on Mars, and the "lost video" message that will go with it some 100years later...
:)
NASA used a special high quality encoding scheme, which was not widespread in those days. In addtition it was protected by a DRM made by company "x", which went bankrupt some 30 years ago... well we have the file, maybe we could even reverse engineer the DRM, but it's illegal because of DMCA.... Sorry dudes, the recording are lost forever because we need to protect the copyright holder rights
It's the one marked Buzz Aldrin: 1956 Wedding Tape.
He'll never forget taping over that one...
Task Mangler
They should have left a copy with the man in the moon.
God dammit, NASA! GOD DAMMIT!
This is why we can't have nice things.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUkwr-KXa98 Looks like the real deal. ;)
I kind of doubt the whole story but if there is any truth to it, it was no accident. These tapes were not lost. They were removed. My guess is that they have been "missing" for more than 30 years, probably because of something incriminating on them, something like Buzz Aldrin bitch-slapping a local.
I heard, and of course I cannot prove any of this, that neil armstrong saw space ships up there and even discussed it with people at some nasa convention years later. Others claim nasa officials mentioned how every single mission was followed closely or at a distance by UFOs. I am honestly in the camp that believes they did go to the moon... The argument as to why they continued with successive missions was they were so committed that no amount of PR or propaganda could convince the american people that the reasons for not going back were reasonable. And telling the truth about aliens was not an option, then or now. I dont believe or disbelieve this account because there is no way to prove or disprove it... maybe history will show itself someday.
Make a point of reviewing the content you wish to preserve at least annually, and make sure that a backup exists in a separate geographic location.
If you have any trouble whatsoever accessing it, make sure you recover it and change the storage format if necessary. Don't put it off a year.
And if you don't want to review the content annually yourself, what makes you think your great-great grandchildren will give a hoot about it?
If you really want an idea to last, and you think it's worth saving, write it or sing it or paint it or sculpt it beautifully, and then give away lots of free copies. If people like it, they'll keep it around. As long as the technological infrastructure of our civilization sticks around, anything that's popular enough will be kept by enough people so that it is preserved. It might change culturally over time, but hey, so does everything else.
it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
> Then why do you post AC?
Because I don't have an account. There's no "hiding" involved, I just don't care enough about having an online persona to bother. The fact that you would even ask this made me chuckle.
Seriously, that's the great part of digital media and what give it longevity. You don't make things last by trying to put them in a format that will last forever and tuck that away, you just copy them to new formats perodicly. CD or DVD will work fine for now. Copy them to one of those, make 4 copies. Put 2 copies each in two seperate locations, maybe two in a bank safe deposit box, two at home. Then, just remember to refresh the backup. I'd do it a minimum of once every 5 years, or when you get a new, better storage technology, whichever comes first. Make sure to hand that off to your children, and so on. Then, no matter how far in the future it is, the data will still be there.
I mean in reality, the CDs would probalby last many decades when stored in a climate controlled dark place, like a bank, but that's not the real problem. The problem will be in 100 years, CD-ROMs will be something for antique collectors or data recovery shops only. Everyone else will be on some format probalby yet to be developed. So not only does your refresh make sure the media doesn't die, it also makes sure it's current technology.
Same thing with file formats. Who knows how long those will last, but you can update them, as necessary. If DV falls out of favour for some new video techonology, you can recode your videos to that, no problem. There will be plenty of time when both formats are widely available. However 100 years down the road, it might be a real feat to find software that understands DV.
That's the way to do it, if this is something you really care about. We aren't talking a lot of labour here, and we aren't talking something you need to do often.
I have data on my harddrive from 15 years ago, it's just been copied and recopied, old papers I wrote. They just get copied to a new drive when I get one, and to my backup drives. When a new version of Office comes out, I convert them to the new file format. In doing this, I'm likely to never lose them.
Just use the advantages of the medium. Digital makes perfect copies, the copies are cheap, they are high density, and you can translate from one format to another. That means you solve the permenance problem by recoping and the destruction problem by having multiple copies in different locations.
It's cool. George Lucas took 'em -- he's going to add the things that he couldn't add the first time because of budget constraints. They'll resurface in a couple years complete with better special effects and a new ending where the Ewoks dance with Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldren.
"And I say that with zero emotional attachment. Not believing that we went to the moon doesn't give me a membership in a tinfoil-hat brigade."
/.) didn't lead to us misestimating those guys. Many times before, some of those fringe groups have turned out to be right (those promoting hypnosis, for example) and people who flatly counted those among the "club of crazies" or whatever have suffered from their premature judgement. (In this case, by denying themselves and others access to a useful form of therapy.)
Maybe not a tinfoil hat wearer (signifying paranoia, really) but you're a card-carrying member of the club of crazies like Erich Von Daniken, scientologists, Richard Hoagland, and creationists.
This "club of crazies" thinking is so typical and so wrong. These people are so vastly different from each other that literally their only unifying characteristic is that they're not mainstream.
Now that would be a moot point if the generalization you display (and seems typical on
Of course a solid prejudice against "club of crazies" types makes everything easier and dramatically reduces need of attention. But that doesn't make it right, so it can also hardly justify the usual insultive behaviour that "club of crazies members" experience. Your inability to explain why some people think what they think (and "willful stupidity" isn't an explanation, but an assumption) should tell your something about the presuppositions you are making your judgement from.
Now I don't think the moon landing was faked, but I do so because I've seen the proof against that idea. I guess you have, too. However, to give summary judgement on fringe ideas does you a disservice because it distorts your model of the world. For example, there now is very solid empirical evidence for both UFO sightings and telepathy. The common "it's all bogus" meme leads people to dismiss this data without even looking at it. This very plainly limits everyone's understanding of our world.
blow your mind already
With a magician like Ronaldinho in the building it will be easy to find the tapes.
A little torture will loosen their tongues about where those tapes went!
Sure , the BBC lost some (vaguely watchable if you're a certain generation) TV programs that could have made them a few pounds in DVD sales by now. NASA has lost of the most pivotal moments of mankinds technological achievements. Comparing the two is a bit like comparing some moles digging up your lawn with the destruction of the Hanging Gardens of Babylon.
Not believing that we went to the moon doesn't give me a membership in a tinfoil-hat brigade.
BZZZZZZZT! Wrong. I'm afraid it does. But thanks for playing.
all of the "proof" so far only serves to convince me otherwise
You should consider more carefully the consequences of this type of reasoning, and the way it affects your likelyhood of arriving at correct or even meaningful conclusions.
sudo ergo sum
is here
http://michaelsmith.id.au
We can always go back and make another recording - we could call it something like "Moon 2 - Astro's Return" or "The All New Moon Landing".
Just as long as the Astronauts aren't joined by a excruciatingly annoying yappy little dog called 'Scrappy Moon' I'll be happy.
AT&ROFLMAO
Please post .torrent for the video and seed.
(File-)sharing preserves videos and music from getting lost!
Grundgesetz * 23. Mai 1949 - 30. November 2007 - http://www.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de/
It's very simple actually: somebody needed some tape to record the episodes of Friends on them. You know how we all love that serie, right? *ducks*
I give massages and reiki treatments (for real!). More info here: http://www.universele-levensenergie.be
Isn't our world just a collection of observations of our own actions, thus we can do what we want, and believe what we want? Oh wait, Macroscopic world, doesn't work that way... Or does it?
Simple! Just base-64 encode the video and submit each snippet as an AOL search query!
Sorry, dude, but if all the evidence convinces you that it was faked, you either are certifiably paranoid, or you're just too stupid to understand it.
And I say that with zero emotional attachment.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Entropy runs rampant.
It is 6 am. Do you know where your eight-tracks are?
E Proelio Veritas.
You are having a laugh, right, and trolling us?
I've looked into the arguments that the moon landings are fakes. Every single argument that has been made has been countered, without exception.
For example, no stars in the pictures from the moon? Well, there wouldn't be - stars are very faint, and the exposure time for the film was insufficient to allow them to be seen.
Objects appearing to be over the top of the etched markings on the pictures? That's image-bleed caused by slight over-exposure - a well known photographic problem.
The flag waving? Well, of course it's going to wave when it's being moved around, that's simple physics, and will continue to wave for a while since there's no atmospheric resistance to help stop it.
And so on.
The simple reality is that it would have been harder to convincingly fake the moon landings than to go there.
user quokkapox we've got your details right here
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"No links that I will ever post will ever convince you or others who think that Apollo 11 through 17 was faked."
ARRGH! substitute "wasn't" for "was"
Teh Morons! They are stealing my brain cells!
--
BMO
Actually he's right, just not believing in the moon landings doesn't get you membership in the tinfoil-hat brigade.
it makes you ELIGIBLE to join, but you still have to pay membership fees like everyone else
I use coins issued before 1974 to pay for my THB membership card (to avoid the RFID tags placed in banknotes obviously)
remember The empire never ended!
Shouldn't all the scientists who've gotten samples of moonrock be able to say something about that?
Commence remooning at once.
Autonomous Retard -- Is your camp safe? UnsafeCamp.com
then read this website. http://www.clavius.org/. Pretty straightforward isnt it? No hoax.
(1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
scientists develop a technique using a particle accelerator to discern the earlier patterns under what appears to be the practices of a religious cult called American Idol.
One of the unique realities of living in the area of Huntsville, Alabama (MSFC) is that you get contact with people who are actually doing things. If you make the right contacts, you know who and what is going on. Here is what is going on regards to NASA and the original data from the Apollo missions. More precisely what has gone on.
The US officials at NASA ordered the destruction of all of the records associated with the Apollo Missions after the last flight to the moon. The Chief of the Records realized how stupid this was and he conspired with certian persons to have some 8 tons of records moved to a secured location with persons in custody who would not tell where the records were or admit they existed. The reason I know of this is that I had extended contact with the man who set this up. The reason he told me was that the discussion of returning to the moon was coming up about 8 years ago and NASA sent a some men out to see him asking if the rumor was true that he had done this and where they could get the records. He told them it didn't exist but on my arrival he was spitting mad at the idiots at NASA over wanting the records. He feared that they might be destroyed if NASA got them again. He felt they were priceless historic documents and that they must be protected. I do not expect them to appear for 100 years or more due to this.
Contained in these records are films, data stores, and all of the technical documents for operation of the Apollo System. Why these were ordered destroyed he felt was a very malicious act. The real reason for the order was that the US Government at the time wanted to destroy the ability to return to the moon any time in the near future. They possessed about 5 rockets able to go and they wanted nobody able to operate them. The also did not want any more able to be fabricated. This discloses international agreements that involved the USSR and other parties that demanded the destruction of this data.
Believe this or not if you will but this is in fact what happened. This discloses the very dirty nature of the behavior of some "well respected" parties in the world. I cannot hope to have people on this forum believe me, but maybe some will. The reason I was present was I was working as RN at the time and I was making Home Health visits 2 times a day to the home. Frankly I was more trusted than the NASA people by this former high ranking NASA man. My experience with such men has included former German Rocket Scientists and many others. When you meet these people you learn what has really gone on.
This man who was the chief of the record keeping for the Apollow program told me how a year before the Sputnik launch the President of the United States had ordered the entire US Army Missile program lab at what is now Marshall dismantled and taken to the dump. When the Sputnik launch panicked the Americans, He and others had to go to the Base Dump and with their own money buy back the "Scrap" equipment in order to get the lab going again. Even the first test stand they built was built this way. It is now an historic monument!
The description of some details here is slightly modified so as to keep some nasty people off the trail and to protect the records. The title of the position the man held is descriptive but not the real title. I am not sure if this man is still alive and I don't want to cause him or his associates any trouble. There have been several attempts to secure these records to have them destroyed over the years since 1973.
Never Politically Correct ~ I prefer the facts If you don't like what I say, get a life, or comment yourself.
Don't worry, I've found the original Moon film on ebay!
I knew NASA's funding was desperate, but I didn't know it was that desperate!
taken from my mouth :-)
but you care enough to sound-off (twice!) about how much you don't care? Classic.
what couldn't have been faked in these videos? :) :)
and what can't be faked even today?
why a mechanic machine couldn't bring back moon rocks? the russians did it.
Russians knew that sending people to the moon and having them die there would be a international disaster in the race. Americans were the ones to value human life so little to take this risk, being far behind in space experiance and technology? Who had/has the best movie industry in the world?
Has anyone heard of the turk how long has that been a secret and how many great people it has fooled for years?
obviously having the whole mission faked would be unduable it involves too many people, however the race was only about people being on the moon. That part could have been faked easly with only a handful of people involved.
it's a possibility which got a bit more credible by the fact that the originals can't be analyzed by a party unatached to the american propaganda mechanizms
would it be worth faking this? even if the cost was in billions?
what impact did the moon walk have on the world and the american people?
has the american goverment used known faked imagary to further their cause in other situations?
if you answered NO to this question you really have to break out of your cocoon and read something other then the propaganda material you've been surounded with
if these tapes have been in some very rich person's "personal museum" for the last several years, the result of a quiet and large payoff to someone that had access to the archives. Things like this don't just "disappear", they "grow legs".
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
I'm not sure what format they were using back then, but seeing how this happened so long ago, even if they did have it, it probably would be no good anyways.
Keith
Support bacteria. They're the only culture some people have.
relax ya'll!!! they are here!!!e rika/
http://www.lugarus.com/movies/klip_rammstein_-_am
Stop looking in all the cabinets! Those tapes are lost on purpose because the're all doctored and fake flicks of them walking the deserts of Utah and Arizona!
here is the video of the FIRST take of the moon landings!
They said I was crazy! Well I'll show them NOW!!!!! AHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
*burble*
The moon has an orbital radius of 384,400 km. The radius of Earth is 6370 km. If you want to try and see the lander bits we left, they are probably on the scale of 2 meters.
From the surface of Earth: 2 meters at a distance of 378,030 km subtend an angle of 5.29 x 10^-9 radians. The angular resolution of the human eye is about 1/60 of a degree, or 2.91 x 10^-4 radians.
So, just build yourself a telescope with a 55000X magnification and you should be all set.
"There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
pretty girl:Wanna do it on the moon?
me with Darth Vader mask on:Yes! Yes!
the rest is cencored
They were misplaced on purpose, because they contained ufo sightings of astronauts, check this out: http//idecrypt.com/aliens
WHy is everybody saying the moon landing was fake? Here at the cradle of aviation museum we have a moon lander straight from gumman that was supposed to land on the moon but was canceled. This wouldnt even be there if the program was fake. Here at the Library that I work at one of our patrons was one of the project jheads at grumman for the moon landers. This is not fake. I have living proof here that its not. Why do people keep mentioning this?
Buzz shot first.
I never spellcheck and I freely admit it. Save your karma for more worthwhile "lol erorrs" replies
http://www.braeunig.us/space/hoax.htm
http://www.clavius.org/
Those above links seem to cover a lot of the 'evidence' for the Moon Hoax theories.
---- "XML is like violence. If it doesn't fix the problem, you aren't using enough."
This just gets better and better. LOL
One NASA engineer was brilliant enough to upload a copy of those tapes to YouTube and Google Video; but then I think his dog mistook the tapes for a chew toy.
There are ways to store tapes so they don't decay - but NASA has had such a problem storing all the data generated by each space probe it wouldn't surprise me if the tapes got pushed further and further back till they were misfiled and possibly destroyed.
Clear, Dark Skies
In the cold war, the US and the USSR wanted to rule over all, so the USians fabricated the trip to the Moon. The USSR didn't have the resources. Since we now have the technology to prove it was fabricated, they decided to eliminate the evidence and claim that it was 'lost'. How convenient.
I wonder how many of them are in on it, and how many are brainwashed/drugged/kept silent.
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
Remember Dinky got moonrocks, which beep in moonlight.
Maybe he has some extra footage, even tho the rocket he built sank in a swamp.
I'm sure Mr. Douglas can help him out.
They Live, We Sleep
Try making a copy of a video feed by pointing a camera at the TV screen playing it. Now try it with technology from 1969.
"higher res" understates the quality difference significantly...
I'm not really one for conspiracy theories, but could these tapes turning up missing have anything to do with Buzz Aldrin saying that he saw a UFO while they were on Apollo 11? Quoting the article:
Aldrin also revealed that he and other astronauts had reported seeing a UFO during the flight, but Nasa had covered it up. He said, "There was something out there, close enough to be observed, and what could it be?
Obviously, we weren't going to blurt out, 'Hey Houston, we've got something moving alongside of us and we don't know what it is,' you know?"
Huh...I found a copy of the program. Available here!
-- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
Tapes of such importance don't just "get lost." According to some of the astronauts involved on that and other Apollo missions as well as people who have seen the original SSTV (superior to what was broadcast in quality) there were artifacts and other things that cannot be explained by conventional theories. http://www.totse.com/en/fringe/cydonia_and_moon_mo untains/cornet-a.html
http://www.enterprisemission.com/Missing-Apollo.ht ml
Some people like to just dismiss these sort of things because they have been conditioned to do so, but if you look at the evidence it is clear that something isn't right - between the missing tapes and photos, the censored (either manipulated or stright blacked out in sections) photos, the way that NASA handles real time communications from the shuttle and other spacecraft it is clear that they are hiding things. I am not saying I know what for sure, but I do know that there has been a lot of obfuscation, and that it is being done for a purpose.
they are in a safe place indeed...m erika/ende
http://www.rammstein.com/_Rosenrot/Band/Gallery/A
Don't you find it ironic that you are essentially saying that you know better than all the people placed in your theory about people who have theories and therefore think they know better? :-)
I hear you, denial93. I don't know anything about the specifics of this particular argument, but it infuriates me when I see people that spout rhetoric and hate getting modded to +5, especially when it's by a herd of closed minded people who want nothing more than to re-enforce for themselves their own borrowed ideas.
I'll bet if you shot me with a howitzer at point blank range that I wouldn't feel a fucking thing.
Funny thing: An old colleague of mine recently recovered some old research data from punched plastic tape (coated paper, actually) that we used to input the CDC-160G back in the mid-60's. Barcoding has an even higher reliability, and can be coded for error correction. It's probably not as space-efficient as what we have now, but my mom has tape measures from the early 1800's that are still readable. Maybe we should print the data in barcode on fabric?
"The mind works quicker than you think!"
Yeah, NASA "accidentally lost" them the same way the Pentagon "accidentally forgot" to secure Iraq's ancient sites and museums after they invaded the country and destroyed its security.
I'd bet there's a beautiful gallery in Crawford, TX where a certain fake cowboy can take long vacations and enjoy the best art our planet has created. Or maybe it's in Kennebunkport, ME.
--
make install -not war
Everything is possible except skiing through the revolving door.
ah; I see. and that would make you another neo-con, deficit spending creationist i.e. another whack job.
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The dude didn't say one nasty thing to you guys, just stated an view that opposes your's but he's been called a crazy, stupid, zealot turd.
Get out of your parent's basement and see the world, you'll get bent out of shape a lot less when someone threatens your precious beliefs because you'll have more bouncing around in your head than Star Trek and moon landings.
I recall visiting the Space Center in 1996. What struck me most was the delapidation. The buildings were 1966 vintage; rot and decay was everywhere. It looked like a trailer park in its last days.
NASA has been villified for decades for being bloated and wasteful. Nice try, space haters, but they have been performing wonders on pennies for decades. They probably don't have the money to manage old film inventory or have redundant security features.
And a HUGE, HUGE problem is that the people who know where everything is were canned for budgetary reasons. They have little institutional memory. (a miniature model of the same problem which afflicts all our institions as they trim the "fat" and lose their history as the old timers go out the door, pensionless.)
recorded the new seasons of Doctor Who over them.
Who cares? We are going back baby!
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. ~Albert Einstein
First off, this is old news. Secondly the tapes were stored in the national archives not by Nasa.
Keep going. You have almost re-invented the tapestry.
"Not believing that we went to the moon doesn't give me a membership in a tinfoil-hat brigade."
... ignorant ... at best. A few years ago, Fox showed some 'documentary' that claimed that there might be evidence the moon landing was a hoax. Every single point of the 'evidence' was EASILY refutable. For example: They claimed that the astronauts were too brightly lit and that the extra light must have come from studio lighting. They even had a 'professional photographer' come on the show and say that it was impossible for that sort of lighting to occur. This 'professional photographer' was completely ignoring the fact that light bounces, even on the moon.
... pardon the expression ... looney. But in the future, I'd recommend that you clarify your views. Too much attention has already been paid to people who have bastardized science to prove their over-zealous point.
Back up a sec, this dude may have a point. The reason that the negative attitude exists for people who believe the moon landing is faked is because the rationale that has been publicized for this is
You'd have to be pretty ignorant to buy in to their logic. That's why, if you just announce that you don't believe it happened, it is generally assumed (whether it is right or wrong, sorry.) that you are part of this little group. If you are simply saying "I wasn't there, so I cannot say for certain", then I think that's a different story. I can sympathize with that. I wasn't even alive when the moon landing happened. In that respect, I cannot actually say it did. Fair enough.
I think the mods were a little too quick on the trigger with modding down your post. You are right that simply not being 100% certain that the moon landing happened doesn't mean you're a
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.bobx.com/
Check out the Quicktime video at the top.
RD
I'm waiting for the sequel.
What's everyone freaking out aboot anyway? I'm sure they are all on YouTube anyway, right? ;-)
Just how many complete copies are there of famous events? You'd figure important historical and public domain videos would be flooding all over free video networks like on Google and Archive.org too.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
Dear Tin-hat man,
We went to the moon. Even if you don't accept all of the evidence thusly provided to you, I'll give you a single thought to ponder;
If we didn't go to the moon, then why didn't the Soviets call Shenannigans?
You see, we were embroiled in the biggest dick-comparison competition in all of history. USA vs USSR. Who will win the race to the Moon, the ultimate achievement of mankind so far? USA or USSR? Both sides had their national pride at stake, and both spent billions to pursue this goal. Both of us had equipment capable of detecting whether or not the others attempts were genuine. For example, it is easy to tell the origin of radio transmissions, using all sorts of doppler calculations; you can tell where it's comming from, and how fast the source is moving.
Our radio transmissions were not encrypted or obscured. The technology didn't really exist back then. So the Soviets could listen in without any trouble whatsoever. They could record them and perform mathematical analysis. And if these radio transmissions were, say, nonexistent, or comming from your average LEO sattellite, the Soviets would have screamed bloody murder! "BULLSHIT YOU WENT TO THE MOON! WE HAVE PROOF THAT YOU'RE LIARS!".
But no such event occurred. They quietly admitted defeat and went on to focus on building space stations, now that the 800-lb gorilla goal was already accomplished.
We went to the moon. Six times. Twelve very lucky and heroic people walked on its surface. They left reflecting mirrors which you can verify their existence of if you have the right equipment (it's how we measure the distance of the moon nowadays, by the way). You're doing them and thousands of other hard working people an extreme disservice by claiming that it never happened.
For shame.
For the important stuff that you hardly ever have to look at? We all have an attic doesn't NASA have an attic they can put stuff in? Someone probably brought them home 20 years ago for movie night then died of old age. They're in someones attic. I suggest we check every attic of every NASA employee for the past 20 years. Maybe go garage sale hunting?
For some reason I refuse to use either spell check or the spacebar properly.
Karma: NaN
can't they just make some new films? They probably still have the old sets and costumes.
I would have thought all the video recordings from the moon missions would have been loaded to Google Video by now. Perhaps NASA was in the process of preparing the files for upload when they discovered they don't actually have the files...
Actually, this event illustrates the conundrum that we are all presented with in this digital age. In the analog age we were accustomed to the loss of old data--it really had little value to the general population. Sure, we had a box of photos of vacations and relatives and such, a wedding album, maybe a voice recording or super-8 film. We relied on historians to do the digging and to present the past to us. People lived shorter lives and when they died they didn't leave behind much data that couldn't be easily divvied up among survivors--photos, keepsakes, mementos.
That's all changed, and with the boomers entering the end game, habits will change.
Today we can easily capture and keep quite a lot of data in a tiny area. It may not be evident just how many gems are saved on the deceased's computers, or portable devices, and how much time will it take to sift through it? It's not a group activity where you can sit with mourners around a box of photos, dig them out and tell stories as you hand them around.
Do we just shut off or reformat and not bother to look? Maybe it becomes a task assigned to one trusted person through a will--to "sift throught the data, share the gems and destroy the porn", before reformatting the system.
Maybe it falls to the elderly to email out to others the digital items they treasure, so that the burden is spread around.
So, I keep an old scsi hard disk from an early Mac because I think that disk has a voice recording I captured of my daughter. Some day I want to mine that disk and recover that sound. The physical disk is of no value to others as it sits collecting dust, and is always at risk of being thrown out.
I think the experience at NASA is probably repeated among us all quite frequently.
We couldn't have gone to the moon. It doesn't exist.
I would have made copies of these recordings, but DRM prevented me.
I have an original box set of the Time-Life vinyl 33rpm LP records and glossy photobook from the first moon landing, copyright 1969 and printed/pressed in 1970. I wonder if Time publishing still has stored in their archives the 2nd-generation copies of the source materials they got directly from NASA. That would still be pretty close to the originals.
Wait, so the flags still there and our crap from the lander. We couldn't wait to litter could we?
What I find funny about the faked lunar landing conspiracies is that the arguments are all based what would have been glaring oversights on NASA's part.
So I'm supposed to believe that these guys were extremely meticulous in recreating a lunar environment they'd never even experienced, but were so inept they didn't notice inconsistent photos, improper lighting and various other problems.
It just goes to show that regardless of how overwhelming the evidence may be people will go right on believing whatever they want.
I thought Ted Turner was just borrowing them to colorize them?
Saving the World: One Drink at a Time
... to lose irrecoverable data because they didn't have the foresight to back it up reliably.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
How could this be misplaced! This is arguably one of the greatest human accomplishments ever!
Actually it's not that hard to see this happening. Unless someone was specifically tasked with saving it it probably went into a pile of stuff to "save." After a few moves you forget what was to be saved and why. Should they have realized the historic value? Probably, but a lot of other stuff was happening at the same time and the tapes may have simply been lost in the shuffle. NASA cleans house periodically, I remember when you could go to Goddard and get blueprints, pictures, and parts of sounding rockets if you asked since they would throw that stuff out to make space for newer stuff. The engineers would take you to their offices (it helped to know one of them but aletter would yield pictures and prints as well) and let you rummage through the files to get what you wanted. A real cool time to be interested in rocketry; and I still have my Javelin / Nike Tomahawk / Aerobee pictures and Aerobee blueprints. Not sure where I put the despin module pieces.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
This isn't a big deal - there's a transcode of a .mov from someone camera-phoning a TV playing back a 2nd generation VHS tape of the events up on youtube. Internet 2.0 has saved us!
The Talmudic Law is clearly NOT pre-biblical! The Talmud is a collection of rabbinical discussions based on the biblical or Mosaic Law revealed at Sinai...It was not published until 200 AD (Mishnah) and 500AD (Gemara). In the New Testament Gospels, Jesus (Yeshua) refers to the as yet unwritten Talmud as the Traditions of the Elders which he stated made the (Mosaic) law of "none effect". Talmud can properly be viewed as a much belated and codified collection of legal responses to the biblical laws of Moses. To this day, a branch of Jews known as Karaites do not accept the Talmud, but only follow the written Torah (Mosaic Law). Orthodox Jews, however, refer to Talmud as "Oral Torah" and Torah (five Books of Moses) as "Written Torah". This practice may have created some confusion around the use of terminology and led some to conclude that Talmud predates Torah which is emphatically not true an completely anachronistic.
I acknowledged this error here. Sorry. My actual point was that the Torah pre-dated the Bible, in response to the two "Duh, it's Biblical!" comments I got.
OK, my bad, I missed your previous post. However, Torah is generally defined as the Law of Moses and is considered to include the Five Books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. This is considered to be the oldest portion of the Bible (Old Testament) with the exception of the Book of Job. Are you arguing that the content of the Law existed and was being followed prior to being put into writing? If so, I would state that Exodus itself implicitly demonstrates that the Law was first implemented, and then the events surrounding its inception were later recorded for posterity. How much lag time existed between these two events? I'm not sure that we will ever establish that with any degree of certainty. Another way of looking at it would be to state that the Bible is the first written record of Torah Law (other than perhaps two sets of stone tablets, one set reportedly destroyed and the other set which will probably be found when we find the Lost Ark). Either way, do you have an older written example of the Mosaic Law outside of the Bible?
Im not sure... but that description sounds very similar to the way that an artificial neural network updates the weights of the network....
may be that is the way that we forget something: it is still there...but in a strange format, only understood when the brain was younger...you remember it when you access it and re-encode it in a new format....
HEY! What about tattoos?!
Seriously, what every happened to books? I mean, we have books and diarys going back 100-1000 years. There has to be a way to encode the data on that.
I think though, that the higher the density of the information the greater the chance that one of the little dots or charged particles is going to go bad. So you have to have errorchecking and periodic backups. The problem is, who's going to do that? I mean, I know Google is posturing to be the computing and data storage services provider for everyone in the world, using their clustering technology, but then Google would be in control of your data. He who controls the past controls the future.
Cool! Amazing Toys.
Well, maybe the argument could be made that they didn't come from the moon, but they sure didn't come from Earth. In fact, there are researchers around the world who have spent years trying to come up with processes to make an artificial material ("simulant") with similar chemical and physical properties to lunar soil samples. (You can see the names of some of the people involved in Session 5 of the most recent PTMSSymposium.) They haven't actually succeeded. What we have is several simulants, each of which mimicks *some* properties, but not all. Simulants are really useful for equipment testing for future missions. What we do now is that if you're interested in verifying that your new rover design won't get gummed up by sand, you use a simulant that gets most of the physical properties right. If you are worried that something you have might not be chemically compatible, you use a simulant that gets some of the chemical properties right.
The point is, the real lunar samples were created by processes that simply don't happen on Earth because we have a corrosive atmosphere, lots of geological activity, and weather. So forget photos - ask one of the conspiracy theorists to come up with a way of producing a substance like the lunar samples that costs less than a few thousand dollars for a few grams. Heck, even if your theorist succeeds, NASA, the ESA, and NASDA (Japan's space agency) would be willing to buy it by the ton, just to name a few! Might as well make a buck.
(captcha = fallacy -- hmm...)
...but this looks like the first step toward "exposing the fraud" of moon travel and officially declaring that man has never visited the moon. Oh the times when conspiracy theories start to make sense :(.
That is what NT stood for in Windows NT
Windows New Testament!!!!
***written by the devil to be assured of a whole new batch of souls foing his way
When the actual "landing" on the moon occurred, all the news corporations (ABC, If I remember incorrectly), had no "link" to the video feed other than NASA allowing the cameramen to direct their video-cameras at the large NASA wall-screen. As we all know, any monitor that is video-recorded with an external camera will show syncronization errata.
For $200 billion USD in 1969, it's too bad they didn't think of the press wanting the live/3-second-delay video to be directly route to their equipment. It also wasn't verry satisfying that the astronaughts held a single press conference that would never repeat ever again and they couldn't recite or remember any of the magnificent luminescence of the stars until a number of years later when they each wrote their own excellently-detailed accounts into their Books for market. I suppose they started taking their Ginko Biloba in their older-years, to remember the things they couldn't remember in their younger years.
I didn't care for anyone challenging them to be mocked as someone just using the errata for a "book deal", when every challenge for the astronaughts to remember was done at each of their Moon conferences and book-signing conventions.
All I can say is $200 billion USD in 1969 is perhaps $3 trillion USD in 2006. If the "mission" was important, then they could have a single peon making copies of the evidence to send them around the world for archival redundancy and exhibitions. Instead, it was quiet and non-descript answers or "I don't...re-call."
Thanks for nothing, NASA. I hope Armadillo Aerospace replaces your asses. At-least if they lie, we'll see zombies that will at-least be re-used in the recent re-implementation of Doom.
Network Redundancy Administration, dude!
M. Gregory Thomas
without prejudice
They're in a box... right next to the Ark of the Convenant.
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Woody's holster was empty.
We went to the moon but.... Here are some interesting tidbits: - We went to the moon at the height of a very protested against war, the Vietnam War, which in turn was a big factor in keeping people happy. - Winning the moon race was due, we finally went in the final year of JFKs decade long cahllenge (1969). - Perfect video from the moon but we can only get delayed satellite phones from the middle east? - Photos are damn near perfect, those astronauts must have been great photographers as well as navigators. - Questionable radiation amounts for such a small craft. - Great deception can happen with only a few people hiding behind a big system (i.e. when the cops have mafia cops, they hide in unsuspecting police force, not a grand conspiracy, but a small faction using cover and decoy) - There is a big ass moon like lake near area 51, yes kooky, but look for yourself http://googlesightseeing.com/maps?p=21&c=&q=groom+ lake,nv&ll=37.272835,-115.798731&sll=36.518555,-11 5.561924&spn=0.060081,0.085402&sspn=0.127029,0.120 678&t=k&hl=en
I hope we went to the moon but I also wanted the Pat Tillman story to be true, and the Jessica Lynch story, and the WMD story, etc. For world domination over the russians after wrestling wiht them for years, would we fake going to the moon? Yes I hate questions like that to.
Disclaimer: IANAAOLU (I am not an AOL user).
Unless he shot you in the toe.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife