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iPod Owners Not As Loyal To Brand As Mac Owners
Virtual_Raider writes "A survey indicates that iPod owners may not be as loyal to their devices as Mac owners are to their computers, thus opening the possibility for Microsoft's Zune to enter the market. Surveyed people also indicated a high likelihood of buying the much maligned brown device. But that doesn't mean that the market is now at Microsoft's mercy." From the article: "ABI Research believes that a critical factor will be whether or not Microsoft can differentiate the Zune from competing products in some meaningful way. One differentiator, Zune's Wi-Fi peer-to-peer sharing, which Microsoft is playing up heavily, 'isn't all that compelling, at least not now,' notes Wilson. 'There's a lot more you could do with that capability.' But given the results of ABI Research's survey, Apple will need to make some big announcements in 2007 if it is to maintain its edge in the industry. Says Wilson, 'Apple needs a new high-end device that works really well and looks really cool, because other brands are catching up.'"
who cares?
i support the right to offend.
What?! Issue the alert for all iPod owners to report immediately to Sector Woz for re-Jobsification!
... and the whole time Bill Gates was standing there with a coffee mug snorting and laughing. I just couldn't look at her the same anymore ... and then when she bought a third party docking station, I just had to break it off. Don't worry, nothing of mine ever touched her ears. Whore.
You know, it's crazy when a consumer tells you that if another product is better they would probably switch to it. Pure madness. Everyone knows that when you buy an electronics device, you have committed to a long term relationship to the manufacturer! The world is awash with computing hussies! How many times must we stress monogamous relationships with your MP3 players? And now you can walk down the street and people are just giving it away for free! I try to warn everyone but this is exactly how you get infected!
I dated a girl once and she had the gall to own three or for different brands of music players. Yeah, I know it's disgusting. I eventually had to break up with her--I kept having nightmares of her with just ear buds and headphones sticking out of her ears
My work here is dung.
iPod may be falling victim to its own popularity. Marketing, excellent design, cachet, marketing, cuteness, and marketing gave Apple a great foothold in the portable music player market. iPod is a great product (I don't own one, don't intend to), and captured the imagination of a public wanting the next new cool thing.
Problem is, the next new cool thing isn't new anymore. And with so many owning iPods now, it's almost not even cool anymore. With Apple's continued re-invention of iPod, iPod has managed to keep iPod as "next".
The loyalty for iPod is different from the loyalty for Mac. iPod is more public, more connected to the owner (until there are wearable Macs)... Once the newness and coolness factors wear off owners want the next greatest thingy that shows their hipness.
So, can Zune fulfill that and capture Apple's market? Maybe. But Microsoft has been kicked around so much lately I think any product by Microsoft is likely to scream "I'm cool". To accomplish the deed, the Zune would almost have to be sublime. Microsoft brought some interesting ideas (wireless, community, sharing), but in typical MS fashion appears to be delivering a product so wrapped around the axle and DRM'ed I can't imagine it will catch fire.
Yes, the survey indicates a high number of iPod users could/would switch, but polls and surveys in a commercial setting hardly bring credence to the point. My guess, far fewer would really switch than indicated by the survey.
And I also think we're not far from some kind of Apple "new" iPod with better screens, and wireless... and the new iPod will be compatible with the old line, and you can bet they'll continue to trump MS in usability. For me, "It Just Works" is better than "Plays for Sure" (I know, MS has abandoned that for the Zune, but whatever the new catchphrase, it's code for "only plays with MS stuff).
Time will tell, but I'll continue to put my money on Apple.
Apple still doesn't have any real competition to the iPod. And each "iPod killer" that has come has also, well, gone. There's frankly no reason to believe Zune is any different, especially given the lackluster reviews and ho-hum reception.
- interface-for-ipod3 133.shtml
And don't worry. Apple's next generation device (with wireless, and so on) is coming:
http://hrmpf.com/wordpress/90/apple-describes-new
http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/10/2006102607
'There's a lot more you could do with that capability.'
Like what?
Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
Is that a made up word?
--
silas
hobbit
"Apple still doesn't have any real competition to the iPod. And each "iPod killer" that has come has also, well, gone"
Each one, gone? I was at a few stores last weekend and found several brands of "Ipod killers" on the shelves along with the iPods. They've not succeeded in their mission of killing the iPod, but they do linger on.
Where were you when the voynix came?
the obligatory "Apple Is Doomed" sentence which a requirement for any serious reportage of the folks in Cupertino.
Add on outlook. Connect to open access points and allow them to get their emails.
Your sig(k) has been stolen. There is a puff of smoke!
...still not addressed? The problem isn't so much, can any one device beat the iPod, it is can any one device beat the iPod and iTunes.
That Steve Jobs kept the proto-type for the iPod in his underpants for 3 weeks straight? I've heard rumors that he has a little polar neck sweater for his willy. It's like a neo-willy-warmer, so when he's drinking his frappa-chappa-chino and typing on his brand new G6 laptop, he can whip out the old boy, fap like there's no tomorrow and still blend in with the crowd.
iFap.
Task Mangler
" but whatever the new catchphrase, it's code for "only plays with MS stuff). "
Why would they even want to claim this? Buried in the specs is the fact that it plays the music-file standard of MP3 files....something far different from the Microsoft controlled WMA etc.
"Buried in footnote 4 of its press release, Microsoft clearly states that "Zune software can import audio files in unprotected WMA, MP3, AAC; photos in JPEG; and videos in WMV, MPEG-4, H.264" (from here
Where were you when the voynix came?
Ok, I realize that not everybody who has an iPod uses iTunes (i don't) but if people buy iTunes, they can't not be loyal. What's the alternative? Burn all your songs to CD and re-rip to MP3, which loses quality? Throw away all your music and buy it in another format? Break the DMCA in order to transfer music to your new player? It's just easier to buy a new iPod when your old one dies, or isn't good enough. iPods have only been really mainstream for a couple years, but I think people are really going to start to feel the pinch of DRM once the Zune and other MP3 phones start to become more popular.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Gung-ho Mac users think Apple has changed their life (for the better). Most people who buy iPods do it because its cool and cute (gag). The same people who bought iPods because they were cool are just going to move on to the next cool thing.
http://www.boredandblogging.com - yes, another pointless blog.
Methodology: data contained within this report is derived from a Web-based survey among a nationally-balanced and demographically-representative sample of 1,725 online consumers (age 18 and older). The consumer survey was conducted in October 2006. Respondents were provided a photo and description of the Microsoft Zune device before being asked about their likelihood to choose it over a competitive MP3 player.
Sounds kind of fishy to me. Did they include the price of the unit? Did they also show people a side-by-side comparison of features with other similar MP3 players? You can get people to pretty much say they'll buy anything, but when it comes time to pony up the cash, it's a different story. I wonder how these 1,725 consumers would react if they knew they'd have to repurchase their entire music library, or burn them on to audio CD's and convert them back?
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
And now, a PSA from David Lynch.
Harley Davidson bandana owners not nearly as loyal to brand as Harley Davidson motorcycle owners.
Film at 11.
Seriously... what did you expect?
"but I think people are really going to start to feel the pinch of DRM once the Zune and other MP3 phones start to become more popular."
Since MP3 is free of DRM, how could someone with an MP3 phone get pinched by DRM???
Where were you when the voynix came?
Thanks to the good people at AppleGeeks, I have a new word to describe the brown Zune.
DooDooPod.
There is no mod option "-1: Disagree" for a reason. "Overrated" is not an acceptable substitute. Post something instead.
- No repair service. (You dropped your $400 iPod and broke it, well, buy another.)
- Battery expires after 18 months (See repair service comment above)
I mean, Apple's telling you that you've got a short-lived device, so naturally people will look for alternatives.
668: Neighbour of the Beast
I don't think there's going to be a large migration from existing iPod owners to Zune. There's no reason to. It's a case of the iPod being good enough, and Zune apparently really doesn't offer anything better. I'll be the first to admit that I wish my iPod had better features, such as shuffling songs within a playlist (maybe I just haven't played with it enough?) or directly managing my songs on it including 2-way transfers (EphPod supposedly allows this, haven't played with it yet - maybe iTunes will get the hint).
As for those that point to iTunes Music Store as the most compelling iPod source, the total number of iTunes Music store DRM'd songs on my and my friends iPods are way less than 1%. (We all have large collections of music that we already own...) To me the reason for having an iPod is that it's small and it works.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Mac owners are there for the OS for the most part, iPod owners are there because it is "THE MP3 Player" (Often they don't even know wth an MP3 player is, they only know that it is an iPod).
MacOS is something that is substantialy different then other things like it (windows/linux/etc), where as most MP3 players are relativly the same (UI being the big thing that iPods stand out with).
Just think about it, try and get a windows/mac/linux usser to switch to another OS. Hard, often futile.
Try and get some one to use a different CD Player/VCR/DVD player? If you can just go "look, it is more efficent and costs less" and tadah, they switch (Assuming they need a new device).
meh.
If some one can create a device that is better and/or cheaper, people will switch.
Do Or Do Not, There Is No Spoon, There Is Only Zuul. Everything in the above post is probably opinion.
Who here thinks the Zune is cool?
The iPod is a design classic.
Microsoft have essentially copied a classic. Which would you prefer, a VW Beetle or a copy that looks similar to it and has a couple of extra features? A Harley Davidson Sportster or a similar looking bike.
The big mistake Microsoft has made with the Zune is copying. It's a music player - there are any number of physical forms it could come in, why did they just copy the iPod?
"I thought this iPod I bought would make it seem like I was part of some music revolution--that I was so plugged into the music scene, so knee-deep in a technological, counter-cultural uprising that I have to have my music with me at all times. Make no mistake, I am only mildly nearsighted, but the glasses I nevertheless wear are as big and black as the people I secretly fear when they walk past my car at stoplights. When I'm not discussing the origins of coffee brewing with a clearly disinterested Starbucks worker, I can be found rarely making eye contact with others and attempting to mail my gigantic pieces of shitty art at the media mail rate at my local post office.
You know, it used to be my music player for playing my music. Owning it used to mean I was cool, but now everybody on the subway has one. What do I do now? Please, please, direct me to the Next Big Thing for me to purchase so that I can continue to identify myself as someone who is young and wise to the latest trends."
If Microsoft really wants that market, it need only convince them that they are ordinary, well-adjusted people if they don't own a Zune.
Flame on!
Interesting I can't see anywhere on the Zune site where it actually states that the Zune comes with headphones. Does it? If it does include them then what are they like?
the more they over-think the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the pipe
Is this the end of Apple?
I believe this article is deliberately misleading. The methodology they used HORRIBLY flawed. Let's take it apart piece by piece, shall we?
So what's the REAL conclusion here? Let's rephrase the results of their study more accurately:
1) 58% of the people in the market for a new mp3 player own an ipod. This statistic is useless as a measure of brand loyalty because we get no information about how many people who own ipods are satisfied. 58% of ipod owners are looking for a new mp3 player would be an interesting statistic. 58% of people looking for new mp3 players are ipod owners isn't because of the issues of sample size and the lack of any data about satisfied customers.
2) 59% of the people in the market for a new mp3 player who bought something other than an ipod are at least "somewhat likely" to buy a zune. To simplify, if you bought an mp3 player and didn't pick the ipod last time and are buying a new one you're looking at offerings that aren't the ipod (i.e. the zune). No shit?
Anyways, I'm not at all impressed by this survey, the methodology seems weak and I don't think there's really any useful information here.
Every person that wants an iPod asks for "an iPod." Every person that has an iPod says that they have an "iPod." Do you hear anyone asking or referring to their "Apple iPod?"
I don't think that because users don't care (or have any clue) who makes their favorite product, many people will just throw away their $400 iPods in favor of the Zune.
I think what is happening is that the high price (US$150) of a decently-featured iPod nano 2 GB (remember, the iPod Shuffle totally lacks a display, which is a turnoff for many users) is creating a demand for low-cost portable music players.
Remember, Windows XP users can "rip" their CD collection using Windows Media Player 10 and copy the music to various low-cost (but decently-featured) players for under US$100, many of which sport as much as 2 GB of flash memory storage. For example, you can get a Creative Zen Nano Plus 512 MB for around US$40 online, and the Panasonic SV-MP010W 1 GB player for around US$50 online (and this is only scratching the surface for the many low cost models out there).
If Apple wants to keep their marketshare up, in my humble opinion they should seriously consider dropping the price of the 2 GB nano to US$125 and 4 GB nano to US$160-US$175 probably by February-March 2007.
Go to the main menu, settings, and set the "shuffle" option to "songs".
"A survey indicates that iPod owners may not be as loyal to their devices as Mac owners are to their computers, thus opening the possibility for Microsoft's Zune to enter the market. Surveyed people also indicated a high likelyness of buying the much maligned brown device. But that doesn't mean that the market is now at Microsoft's mercy."
There is absolutely no information in the article about mac owner's loyalty to their computers. It essentially shows that:
* among people who are looking to buy new mp3 players 58% own ipods.
* among people who own mp3 players that are not ipods, 59% are "somewhat likely" to buy a zune.
Interesting I can't see anywhere on the Zune site where it actually states that the Zune comes with headphones. Does it? If it does include them then what are they like?
More importantly, where will I be able to get a replacement set of headphones in shit-brown?
This guy's the limit!
If ipod owners are not loyal, why haven't there been any mass defections to any of the previous ipod killers?
Because apple created the right mix of usability, fashion, and ergonomics. Now that ipods are considered stylish, any competitor has to overcome that as well to eat into apple's market share. The fact of the matter is, the market is growing, and apple's share is probably growing as well.
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
The term "iPod killer" itself is just a journalism blink tag.
Honestly, I own an iPod because it does exactly what I need. No more, no less. It's compact, it's resilient, it's lightweight and it doesn't weigh me down with overly complicated menu systems or functions that I'll never use. Radio? Please. There's nothing on the radio I want to hear. Wi-fi? Again, why? It's a security hole and I don't see any real need for it (especially the way the Zune implements it).
My iPod allows me to listen to encoded CD's so I don't have to cart my CD collection around with me. It also allows me to buy music on iTMS and play that back too (only bought a few albums, but that's all I need). What more do I need from my device? OK, so my calendar and contacts are there. Groovy, they're on my phone, too so it's sort of redundant functionality for me. I own an iPod because it has decent sound quality, the device itself is pretty slick, the interface is simple and easy to work with and generally it meets my needs. What more do I want?
I won't buy a Zune; not because it's Microsoft but because it doesn't give me any killer features that I need. Sure, conceptually the wireless music sharing is a nice idea, but cannot be implemented in a truly free way. The only way I can see it being useful for me is to be able to share limited-time sample tracks of small bands (often friends of mine) to get other friends interested in their music. But then again, I do that by email already, so it's not a killer feature there, either.
I will run my iPod until it won't run any more. Once that dies, I'll look at the market and if the iPod is still what meets my needs and requirements with minimal fuss at a reasonable price I'll probably replace it with another iPod. If something else comes along that meets my needs better or has killer features I decide I can't live without then I'll buy that instead. Sure, this confirms what the article says somewhat, but not for the reasons implied in the article (it implies that iPod owners will drop the iPod for the Zune, that's not true).
For reference, I'm also a Mac owner, a Linux user and a Windows admin for work. I don't particularly "keep the faith" of any manufacturer; I use what works for me.
In that case, does this page mean surely the ipod doesn't include earphones or charger? I mean if they are selling them as part of a seperate pack surely its because its not already included right?
"reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
'A new survey .. has shown that .. owners of iPods--would be likely to choose Microsoft's Zune player .. of those identifying themselves as existing iPod owners .. said they would be "somewhat likely" or "extremely likely" to choose a Microsoft Zune player"
What is society coming to, when people aren't even loyal to their device? What's next? People betraying their objects? Talking behind their machines' backs? Failing to love their neighborhood apparatus? Disrespecting their things?
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
They're both in the image business. Die hard bikers, folks who really love motorcycles, think Harleys are peices of crap. But who buys most of the Harleys? Yuppie businessmen and wannbes who want the image of a free spirit "biker" who's bucking the system. It helps them escape from their 8am - 8pm office drudgery.
Who buys Apple? Folks who want the image of a free-spirit artist who's bucking the system. It helps them to escape from their 8am -8pm office drudgery.
The difference with Apple is that you can bring it into your office or cubicle.
There will probably be a lot of people trying out Zune. It will be interesting to see how many keep it as their default device, how many return it within a few weeks and how many re-buy it when it gets upgraded. People didn't just buy an iPod. They bought one for themselves, one for their significant other, a shuffle for the youngest, a nano for their daughter and then went and bought a new video ipod when they came out for themselves again. Not to mention all the gift iPods, the giveaways, etc.
I just don't see MS having that sort of product pipeline.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
.. to the most important and popular iPod: the iPod nano. Lots and lots of features is not going to change anything, because features are not the reason the iPod nano sells so well.
The main reasons are iTunes integration, portability, has has a cool brand name and is fricking gorgeous. The Zune is neither of those things, and is currently an overhyped competitor to the regular iPod, which to be honest is becoming more of a niche market.
From that page:
In the box * iPod * Earphones * USB 2.0 cable * Dock adapter for use with Universal Dock * Case * Quick Start guide
the more they over-think the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the pipe
I don't even try to update my iPod anymore. iTunes is such a royal pain in the ass!
The only people who are as brand-loyal as Mac owners are buying beer or cigarettes. I say this as someone who buys all three.
I like music
Well, sure since the ipod has been released and has such spec sheets its easy to see its a bunch of crap to suggest they don't include them because there are seperate "packs" which also include them. My point is how stupid it is to assume the zune won't because it also has seperate "packs". In the entire consumer electronics market is there ANYTHING which doesn't have seperate assesory packs (which often include the same items which came with the product)?
;-)
Here are the steps required to see the "evidence" of seperate assesories and come to the conclusion those items won't also be included in the base product.
1) Go to a mind wiper and get them to remove any piece of information or memory you have about this market.
2) Chug a few pints of the strongest booze you can find while standing on your head.
3) Get up and spin around as fast as you can until you fall over.
At that point, the argrument MIGHT make some sense to you
I have no idea what will or won't be included with the zune because I just don't care about those product enough to find out even if the info is available pre-launch, but even I can see the logic for stating they "must not be" because someone is advertising an assesory pack is more than a little dim.
"reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
My wife has an iPod. It's pretty nice. The interface is fantastic and clean, and the software for transferring music to it works reasonably well.
/lot/ of time--realistically, most people will not do this).
That said, I probably wouldn't want one. I'd just as soon have something cheaper, frankly, even if it meant that I couldn't play ITMS music.
And that brings me to the reason that iPods stay in the market: DRM. Apple has created an artificial need to stay with iPod if you use ITMS. Anyone who has purchased music through ITMS loses their ability to play their music on-the-go once they drop iPod (yeah, you can burn and rerip, losing a bit of quality and taking a
If Zune had a better battery life (something certainly feasible to address) and could use Apple's DRM, it might have a fighting chance. As it is, I just don't see it happening.
As usual when I see something really insightful I don't have mod points. Who designed this stupid moderation system?
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Owners of $300 device not as loyal as owners of $2000 device! AHHHHHHHHHHH
Not terribly original, I think.
Also, regarding the "wireless sharing"...it's simply a mechanism where the USERS serve the role of marketers and advertisers for content. There is no true "wireless sharing" here.
From http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2006/sep
Note the reference to "sample" tracks of "select" songs. Who selects them, the user or MS?
And further on down...
This reminds me of the desktop on new PCs and laptops, pre-loaded with trial software that repeatedly asks you to buy a license after some sort of trial period. I wonder how long this pre-loaded "content" goes before you have to pay or erase.
The Zune is a marketing tool, plain and simple--a marketing tool paid for by the users, to market to other users. I'll stick to my old 20 GB iPod, TYVM.
Thoughts?
Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
Available from cowan, check out the specs
Salut,
Jacques
Besides my friends who are really into new technology I haven't really heard any mention or hype from people around the Zune. I've seen 1 commercial, in a movie theater (I don't want much TV) and honestly I was kind of confused and not very impressed. It was trying to be kind of artsy and hip and in my opinion it didn't really work. At least according to http://bink.nu/Article7877.bink they plan on spending millions but I haven't seen it and the hype here, in Chicago, is still around the iPod.
I read this on another site. Apparently they were asking if you would move to a Zune, but if you would _consider_ moving. That casts it in an entirely different light. Hell, I'm a pretty big Mac fan, and I'd consider moving to the Zune.... if it played movies I downloaded off the internet, had 50 hours of battery life, a 100gb drive and cost $80. And I'm sure a lot of owners don't know the speicifics of the Zune, they were just asked "would you consider getting a Microsoft MP3 player". And most of them said "yeah, why not". This is far from the slam dunk that it seems.
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
I'd been "loyal" to Apple since the Apple IIe days. Not that I was exclusively an Apple user, ever, but I always felt the love, until the Ipod.
See, I had this experience: I decided to experiment with "manual sync". The instant I selected the option, I got a warning that the Ipod would not be automatically updated, which was exactly what I wanted. Seconds later, 5,877 songs were deleted from the device. Not cool.
At that moment, the long-running love affair between me and Apple ended. They took my lollipop, and stomped it into the sidewalk.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
I have purchased 2 iPods from the iPod store. I like them, but now that Zune makes iPods I might buy a Zune iPod.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
Whilst I have no doubt that Apple make superior hardware and software to Dell/HP/etc and Microsoft, I can't help thinking that part of this "loyalty" that Mac owners have is because once they've purchased the software to run, they have no choice in moving away from the platform unless they want to re-purchase all their software again.
Similarly, I have no doubts that someone who considers moving away from their iPod and happens to have bought a large amount of music from the iTunes store will also have second thoughts when they find out that their music won't work[1] on their next non-Apple purchase. Those who stick to regular MP3's will be able to move to and from other devices with little to no problems.[2]
[1] Yes, I know there are ways around it - but not everyone knows them or is technically savvy enough to be able to do it.
[2] Another good reason for DRM free music.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
Whilst I have no doubt that Apple make superior hardware and software to Dell/HP/etc and Microsoft, I can't help thinking that part of this "loyalty" that Mac owners have is because once they've purchased the software to run, they have no choice in moving away from the platform unless they want to re-purchase all their software again.
I think it's more that moving from OSX to MS-Windows is a painful experience. My wife, who used and liked MS-Windows at work before she got her Powerbook at home, hated her work computer after just a week or two of OSX. It was just painful to use for the most trivial of things.
Strangely, she doesn't seem to mind Ubuntu that much. "It's still not a Mac," she told me, but she has little choice, as her Powerbook is having, ironically, power problems.
It's not just the hardware, thought that's part of it. It's the well-designed software, too. There's brand loyalty because it's a damned good brand.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
A survey indicates that iPod owners may not be as loyal to their devices as Mac owners are to their computers, thus opening the possibility for Microsoft's Zune to enter the market. Surveyed people also indicated a high likeliness of buying the much maligned brown device. But that doesn't mean that the market is now at Microsoft's mercy."
It might be because the computer and mp3 player market dynamics are different:
Computer - significant investment in learning a user interface and the software you use. If you switch you must relearn what you can already do, plus the user experience is different.
mp3 player - significant investment in music that can be moved to another device, very little investment in the actual interface
Why do you think Apple wants to make it hard to move music from iTunes to any non-iPod device - because that locks you into an iPod just as Microsoft does with Windows. Who wants to spend the time to burn CD's (which I have found to be problematic - I get lots of hiss on them) just to swap players? OTOH, if all it takes is a drag and drop you don't lose the biggest part of your investment - the time and money it takes to develop a collection - so switching players isn't that hard; especially since you can quickly relearn the interface and controls for a new player.
I agree Apple needs to come up with the next great iPod to keep its position - give people a compelling reason to buy the device and hope you lock them in via iTunes.
I also agree MS will not be able to do with the Zune what they did with Windows - its about content - which they don't control; and mobility of that content - which they can try to control. The problem for hardware manufacturers is the content owners know that they are the real value in the equation - and will work to extract as much of that value as possible without caring what it does to the hardware manufacturers profitability - after all if the Zune fails there are plenty of companies that can build a no-frills 4100 20meg player and sell it as a commodity. In fact, it's to the content owners advantage to commoditize the market so as to drive down prices and increase the % of mp3 players in use - so they can sell more content.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
You can't really compare loyalty to a computer to loyalty to an essentially throw away piece of technology. If you spend $1500 on a computer you're gonna be fairly committed to it. If you spend $200 on an MP3 player with a screwy warranty and a pre-set time of death you're probably gonna get fed up with it after a while. I mean if my ipod breaks, my options are. A) Apple's reccomendation; buy a new one from the latest generation B) Take it into an Apple store wait 3 hours and get it replaced C) Mail it out to Californy wait 4 weeks to get it fixed and mailed back
There is already a web gateway, so in theory there is probably a way to check your Exchange email without downloading it.
I actually think that this survey might be inaccurate.
I would bet that there a an awful lot of iPod users that have rock solid brand loyalty of sorts and don't know it. The users I refer to are all the people that buy music from itunes. They will find out how loyal they have to be when they buy a zune and find out none of their music collection will play.
Talk to someone with a puppy.
Or maybe you can cut a deal with the people who buy paint for government buildings, because that seems to be their favorite color, next to polluted beige.
The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines
Exactly. Then they'll return their Zune and grumble a little, but they'll be completely stuck.
Actually, that's a really great reason to hope that the Zune is initially successful--so that maybe people will wake up and start understanding DRM.
ahem.
MS is not that stupid.
comes with exactly the same stuff an iPod does, a sleave, headphones, and a USB Sych/charge cable.
No, I am still not buying an MP3 Player. to much money for not enough product.
Do Or Do Not, There Is No Spoon, There Is Only Zuul. Everything in the above post is probably opinion.
http://www.zunethoughts.com/news/show/97/accessori es-in-the-box-and-out-of-the-box.html
I fail it for not linking TFA.
Do Or Do Not, There Is No Spoon, There Is Only Zuul. Everything in the above post is probably opinion.
I'll be the first to admit that I wish my iPod had better features, such as shuffling songs within a playlist (maybe I just haven't played with it enough?)
Been a feature since day one, as far as I know. Just turn on the shuffle feature in the menu. You'll then be shuffling whatever you're playing, be it a playlist, album, or whatever. (Apple also added a "shuffle songs" main menu item a while back - don't confuse these two.)
I do admit that I wish you didn't have to constantly back out to a menu to turn shuffle on and off, but that's the tradeoff to keeping things simple in the hardware interface. I wouldn't mind having a shuffle button, but then some others might not mind having an on/off switch, some others might not mind having a dedicated backlight button, etc. and eventually you've got a whole bunch of clutter if you try to satisfy everybody.
or directly managing my songs on it including 2-way transfers (EphPod supposedly allows this, haven't played with it yet - maybe iTunes will get the hint).
"2 way transfers" meaning transferring to your iPod, then transferring from the iPod to a second computer? (There'd be no reason to transfer a song to the same computer from which you got it in the first place.)
Obviously, this is a copy protection, and iTunes will never support that. Neither will the Zune. You'll always have to rely on third party software for this, unless you choose a player that doesn't sync at all but just does drag and drop (some people prefer this; I think those people must have pretty small libraries).
The nice thing is Apple has basically looked the other way on all the third party software out there for the iPod. They certainly could at the very least threaten developers for DMCA violations or whatever, but they have not. It almost seems like they realize that these applications probably do make money for them in increased hardware sales as they allow a certain segment of people to do things with their hardware that Apple can't officially sanction.
So there are quite a few third party apps to use if you don't like iTunes or if it doesn't do what you want it to do, including several (like Anapod Explorer) that integrate into Windows Explorer and give you real drag and drop functionality, if that's what you're into.
I posted this comment a month ago, and more than ever I believe it to be the case:
"It's not the iPod or the iTunes Store that are so compelling. It's iTunes itself. Until a competitor produces software that makes managing your music and video collection and getting it from your computer to your music player easier than iTunes does, there'll never be an "iPod killer", regardless of features, price, or ease of use [and topping the click-wheel navigation interface is going to be a bitch of a mountain to climb]. The ease of use of iTunes made the Store possible, and it is that ease of use of the SERVICE, not the iPod, that is the real key to Apple's dominance in the legal download market. The point that most people are missing by focusing on the iPod is that Apple is already looking beyond it. Competitors who focus on the device, and not on the service ecosystem it represents, are fighting the wrong battle.
The iTunes Store is cluing in the average consumer (i.e., the multitudes who don't know or care that Slashdot exists) that buying digital content from the Web is an easy process, and when they're used to the idea, it won't matter to Apple if an "iPod killer" exists or not. They'll be too firmly entrenched in people's living rooms to give a damn, and a hell of a lot more people own TV's than own digital music players. With the prices of LCD TV's falling, how difficult would it be for Apple to stuff the iMac's guts and iTV functionality into a television and position it as THE Next Big Thing? Especially if Disney, through Jobs' connections, provides some marketing muscle? I can easily envision Apple sweetening the pot by offering free Disney classics on DVD, or via iTunes Store, exclusively with the purchase of a new "iHome" entertainment system. iTunes is the true key to Jobs' vision of the Digital Hub."
When you invest $250 on an iPod you are probably less attached to the company than if you dropped $2500 on those shiney MacBook Pros. That seems like an obvious factor to me, but to think these consumers would go out and buy a second Zune device just doesn't seem right.
I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
That attitude is all most geeks on Slashdot have in life, don't take it away from them!
In this situation, the Zune might get a few people just like the others have but not many.
As for the shuffles screenless design being a turnoff, the shuffle is one of Apple biggest sellers. They wouldnt have redesigned it if people didnt want to buy it. They even got rid of the 1 gig iPod nano because people where buying the shuffle for the nano. The fact is there are a lot of us (myself included) who find the lack of a screen good. I would rather just press a button to skip a track while on the tredmill then look at a screen to hunt a song down.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
1. You buy hundreds of dollars worth of iPod compatible accessories (such as the iPod interfaces that integrate one with your car stereo, or something like a DLO dock to attach to a home stereo and TV set), so why look for alternatives that make all those add-ons useless?
2. If you dropped your $400 iPod and broke it, it's just like dropping your $400 PDA/phone and breaking it, or dropping you $1000+ laptop and cracking the screen. You *might* get it serviced for free, IF you paid extra for an extended warranty of some type. Otherwise, yeah - that's how it works. You buy another one, or pay full price for a non-warranty repair (which is often not as good a deal as just buying another device). Why would you think other brands of MP3 players would be "more repairable" than iPods are?
3. Replacement batteries are available for iPods of all generations, usually with even better life between charges than the original had. My local CompUSA had several in their "bargain bin" for about $15 each, last month - including replacement instructions and a special tool to help pry off the back of the iPod.
Is that anything like "truthiness?"
It doesn't really seem fair to compare the loyalty of people who buy the hottest gadget item in the world to a user base that has been fanatical regarding a product through the best and worst of times.
Time will tell, but I'll continue to put my money on Apple.
I'll put my money against MS, but that isn't at all the same thing as putting it on Apple. I'm getting a bit tired of the issue being treated as an Apple vs. Microsoft thang when there are so many other players already in the field; and dozens more to come.
It's just a music player. Certain brands of music player always dominate the market when they first introduce new technologies into the field. They also always become just another brand of music player ten years or so down the road when everyone else is doing it. Fashions pass. Commodities last.
I haven't purchased my first such device yet. Odds are good that I will within the next year. It's nice that the Zune has rounded corners, seeing as where I think MS can stick it, but Apple isn't going to see a penny of my money either.
There will be a lot of me in the coming years.
KFG
In that case, does this page mean surely the ipod doesn't include earphones or charger? I mean if they are selling them as part of a seperate pack surely its because its not already included right?
There is no way that Apple would not provide the trademark white headphones. That is the key marketing ploy they used. I own one but the first thing I did was replace the headphones for two reasons. First I didn't want the look at me I have an ipod and the second was the look at me I have a 300-400 dollar gadget
That's what I am hoping for too.
Eventually some traumatizing event will make people realize what DRM means.
I just hope this occurs before it is too late to turn back.
My fucking God I think this has to be the most sickening example of 'everyones a sheep but not me, I'm elite and see through the bullshit' nerdery I've ever seen. Get over yourself, for fucks sake! Please!
I know loads of people with iPods, and not a single one bought it because it was trendy. They all bought one because they played with someone elses, and decided it did everything they wanted, with a nice interface, good looks, and from a company with a reputation for making good products.
I find it hilarious that you're berating this fashion-whore character you've just created for trying to make himself feel superior by buying trendy gear and drinking coffee at Starbucks, and yet you're doing exactly the same thing by performing a jealousy-riddled psycho-analysis of you're 'consumer sheep'. Comedy gold!
Think of this... most car stereos out now support the ipod for control and charging, 3rd party support is HUGE. no other mp3 player has that. I cant buy a zune or whatever abomination DELL is offering and plug it into my car stereo, my alarmclock or my whole house audio system and have it seamlessly integrated.
iPod is the ONLY device that does this... nothing else can right now, and no manufacturer is even interested in ultimate integration by opening the specs 100% to the interface and communication so they CAN interface to it.
When my ipod breaks, I'm getting another ipod, because the zune or iriver will not plug into my equipment that makes the ipod really useful to me.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
You can't possibly believe what you're typing. Do you honestly think it doesn't come with a pair of headphones? Do you honestly think it ships with no way to sync and charge? Or are you just trolling?
LOOP: /will/ be "too late to turn back", but some progressive company will start offering non-DRM'd content (seeing a "new" market). They'll use slogans like, "It's your music. Do what YOU want." They'll charge a premium, but they'll be hugely successful, leading companies to start laxing DRM and possibly even removing it.
Probably, what will happen is that it
Then eventually they'll start seeing piracy again and they'll start looking at "new" solutions to address the issue, like restricting rights, protecting the digital path, requiring a license to play the content, and forcing your players to request the right to play music you've purchased.
goto LOOP
Let's not ignore the sample group and the claims by ABI. Only 58% of the sample group own iPods, that's a slight way off when you consider that Apple controls over 80% of the market. So, the sample group isn't a valid "demographically-representative sample" of the general populace as ABI claims.
On top of that there were product images of the Zune provided but no other MP3 player images presented to those surveyed? Seems very hinky.
I wonder who owns ABI research and who paid for this information.
"People more loyal to any product they spend $2-5,000 on versus something they spend $200-500 on..." or "iPod owners loyalty increases after realizing they can't easily move DRM'ed music library to Zune..."
One thing that many still don't realize is the lock-in aspect. Those DRMed files you buy^H^H^H license through the iTunes Music Store for your iPod can't come with you to any other music player. They'll only work with an iPod. Some iPod owners are going to be in for a rude awakening if they decide to buy a Zune (or any other player).
(And, yes, I know that there are illegal-in-the-US-even-though-it-shouldn't-be ways to remove the protection on the AAC files... though other players don't play AACs... and please don't give me an example... most don't... and most consumers have no idea what an AAC is. And, yes, I know you can burn it to CD and then rip it to standard MP3s... with the resulting loss in quality from going from one lossy format to another. But the average consumer isn't gonna know how to do either of those things.)
Portable versions of Firefox, GIMP, LibreOffice, etc
quote: Zune AC Apadter That makes me think that out of the box you can only charge with through the computer. Although the Zune specs say charging is 3 hours 90% @2 hours, so that would imply it includes the AC adapter, but the AC adapter implies you need to connect it to the computer to charge, arrrgg soo confusing!
So, I fixed the iPod myself, but that was the LAST Apple product I'll ever buy. Oh, and in case someone from Apple is reading, I just killed a proposal from marketing to buy Mac Powerbooks for all of our salesmen -- they're getting ThinkPads instead. Kiss 20k goodbye, and multiply that by the number of decisions I make each year for the next twenty years or so!
It doesn't matter how loyal iPod owners are to the brand... just how loyal they are to their music. Anyone jumping ship will lose the music they bought off of iTunes.
The question that brings up: how many iPod users have enough iTunes tracks to cringe at the thought of re-buying/losing them?
From that Jobs guy!
"2 way transfers" meaning transferring to your iPod, then transferring from the iPod to a second computer? (There'd be no reason to transfer a song to the same computer from which you got it in the first place.) Obviously, this is a copy protection, and iTunes will never support that.
The iPod supports that feature NOW for music from iTMS. And transferring songs in non-FairPlay formats is pretty easy too, you just have to look in some hidden folders. Hell, it would probably be easy to write an AppleScript to copy all the music off your iPod and import into iTunes. I use this feature all the time to move music to my work Mac.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
How many people say they will vote versus how many actually do? How's that diet doing? Exercise and diet like you said you would in january? Stop eating fatty foods? How many people said they wanted a phone mp3 player? But how many people actually signed up for Cingular's or Sprint's phone service? I'm not saying there's not a reason ($16.50 to buy one song a month is excessive) but people say lots of things when you ask them - the ONLY result that counts is what people actually do. It also depends on who's asking and in what context ... are you told the survey is called ARE YOU BEHOLDEN TO ONE COMPANY WHEN BUYING PRODUCTS? Or is it called something more neutral like TECHNOLOGY? Or if you're told you're selected because you have an open mind about being products - or asked - are you open minded about technolgy brands - then how do you answer? Is it done with your friends in front of the mall or are you in quiet lab? Are you in a focus group with others or at home in front of your computer? Is it a 50-year guy asking the questions or a 25-year old girl? All of these skew results and of course if MS paid for it, all the questions are subtlely slanted towards MS ... unless they release ALL the original questions, it's like a call in survey - yes, there are results but ultimately, they don't necessarily say much ...
You can't possibly believe what you're typing. Do you honestly think it doesn't come with a pair of headphones? Do you honestly think it ships with no way to sync and charge? Or are you just trolling?
He forgot to mention that it doesn't come with a battery and also all the units come from the factory pre-broken.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
This reminds me of the desktop on new PCs and laptops, pre-loaded with trial software that repeatedly asks you to buy a license after some sort of trial period. I wonder how long this pre-loaded "content" goes before you have to pay or erase.
Does that mean we can call Microsoft's pre-loaded music "shoveltunes?"
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
668: Neighbour of the Beast
iPod may be falling victim to its own popularity
iPod is a great product
With Apple's continued re-invention of iPod, iPod has managed to keep iPod as "next"
The loyalty for iPod
Argh! The term "iPod" is pretentious enough the way it is; please don't propagate Apple's idiotic meme of intentionally excluding definite and indefinite articles ("the" and "a"/"an") when referring to the iPod, in order to make it seem like some sort of conscious anthropomorphic entity as opposed to the straightforward electronic device that it is. The correct usage is "an iPod", or "the iPod", damn it!
and the new iPod
Thank you.
We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked.
The iPod is the only device available which can be connected to my car stereo and allow for control from the head unit.
What more reason would I need than that? No other devices exist that can compete here. Zero. Zilch. Connecting via a stereo mini-jack and controlling the device itself is sub-par for what I desire. I have that capability, I used my old device that way, I hated it.
And as if that wasn't simply reason enough: iTunes iPod interconnectivity is so smooth and useable compared to anything and everything offered by every other player that I can't even dream of going back to third party software or, *shiver* WiMP.
So, when people wonder why iPod is so successful, don't leave out these two extremely important concepts. Despite my being a bit of a computer geek (*cough* engineer *cough*) the average person is going to find these same two reasons highly elevated once they actually get into USING their devices.
I have to be honest, there are many things I dislike about the iPod otherwise that simply don't knock these two positive reasons down at all. Some examples:
- Click wheel: Who thought this was a good idea? Nothing about this is ergonomic. I miss the items I'm trying to choose constantly and the thing randomly decides to change sensitivity on me. Not to mention the fact that half the time I go to push one of the buttons the wheel detects my finger and reacts as if I was sliding along to change the volume or something.
- No queueing on the iPod: What insanity is this? Every other device I've owned allowed me to, while shuffling the entire collection, choose the song that would play next. Apple's iTunes has the party shuffle. Why doesn't the iPod have party shuffle? That would satisfy me.
- USB interface that confuses Windows: Poor Windows can barely keep up with all of the USB devices I have. I plug them into a different port and the poor machine has a panic attack. So, why did Apple think it was necessary to slip a mickie to the USB subsystem for the iPod on Windows? In Linux it's just a regular mass storage device but on Windows if you do so much as plug the device in before the proper drivers are installed then good luck getting that to work. Of course, if you followed the instructions nothing bad will happen. Go figure.
So, despite these things that irk me about the iPod, I still prefer it for the original reasons. I've owned two iRiver (one without WiMP support, one with it) and a Zen. I feel I have a wide enough breadth of experience to avoid the common missteps of forming opinions on these devices.
Now of course, if you truly don't care about managing your music as conveniently as possible and you have absolutely no use ever for remote control of the device in the manner of the bottom port of the iPod then more power to you. Pick the device that does what you need. To be honest, I'm kind of sad that the iPod is the only viable choice for the first reason I gave. Proprietary sucks.
I read the script, and I think it would help my character's motivation if he was on fire. -Bender
Except that this shuffles the entire library of songs on the device, not just the currently active playlist - I know, I've tried on mine. What the grand-parent was saying is how to shuffle the currently active playlist. For example, you might have a heavy metal or rock band or 2 on your favorite playlist, and then another playlist with trance/techno/house music for parties - do you really want to suddenly get Sandstorm mixed in with AC/DC?
I think its rather annoying too, because otherwise you've got to wait until the next time you sync with your box to shuffle playlist songs around. I also think that it (the iPod) should have actual playlist management on the device. It would mean that you could add/remove songs to certain playlists instead of just that "on the go" thing - it gets rather annoying to have to forward through the song or 2 that you hate and haven't had the chance or been too lazy to sync
Apple has created an artificial need to stay with iPod if you use ITMS. Anyone who has purchased music through ITMS loses their ability to play their music on-the-go once they drop iPod (yeah, you can burn and rerip, losing a bit of quality and taking a /lot/ of time--realistically, most people will not do this).
Number of iPods I own: 3
Number of iTunes songs I have bought: 0
Probability of me switching to another player: limit of 1/n as n -> infinity.
I wouldn't say I'm the norm, but I would say that there are a fair amount of people with iPods that don't use the iTunes store.
"Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman
Exactly what I was thinking. I wish I had mod points right now.
You might want to try Senuti. You don't have to deal with hidden folders.
I've used it for a while, seems to work well. It even imports the songs directly into iTunes.
Slashdot: where repeating an article in a post is "+5 Insightful"
Sounds like Apple has you locked in by virtue of dominant market share, the same thing you guys blast MS for.
BTW, Microsoft is indeed openning up the 3rd party market, so that iPod advantage won't be as big as you think.
Here are a couple examples:
Octavio - Zune speaker dock made by VAF
Altec Lansing's Zune speaker dock
A list of companies that have signed up to make Zune accessories is here:
http://www.zunescene.com/zuneaccessories/
Read more info at http://www.zuneguy.com/ the blog of the MS guy that's in charge of creating Zune's 3rd party market.
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
Sure, but there are a lot of people who /do/ use ITMS, and those people won't be jumping to a new product without losing a heavy investment in music.
Yet another device with FM but not AM. Somehow, half a radio is more frustrating than not having a radio at all. By the way,
Where were you when the voynix came?
A survey indicates that iPod owners may not be as loyal to their devices as Mac owners are to their computers, thus opening the possibility for Microsoft's Zune to enter the market.
... that makes perfect sense.
So by this logic, since mac owners are so loyal to their computers, there's no way that PC's will ever enter that market. No no
or else!
The iPod took off because it made portable music attractive and easy for the masses - the UI, the store, the fact it was 'cool'.
What if Microsoft/Zune can do the same with video? Portable and web music is old now, video is the new big thing - music video downloads on iTunes, uTube etc. are huge
It's true that the Zune has a good screen and UI for viewing videos. Others point out Apple can just leapfrog them whenever they want by producing a big screen, nicer looking and handling iPod and that's true.
But this is the first time (I think!) Microsoft have had their own store. Their Playsforsure stuff was just technology for 3rd parties to use. Now MS itself has a store, a website for the Zune and so on and they're pushing it themselves. They're a big deal. Maybe they can make licensing deals Apple can't, or on better terms, or first then lock Apple out.
A couple of what-ifs:
- Microsoft signs a deal to get uTube on the Zune and the deal is exclusive prohibiting Apple doing the same thing.
- Microsoft gets all TV channels and movie studios in their shop. Apple only gets half of them. Do you want Zune with everything or a crippled iPod that you can't even get half your favourite shows on?
The methodology sounds completely reasonable. The reason the study is restricted to people who intend to buy an MP3 player in the next 12 months is because the study was likely designed to provide information useful for actually advertising those players for the next 12 months. The study is likely not actually trying to measure "brand loyalty" in any absolute terms; it's designed for some specific purpose in mind.
What you're obejcting to really seems to be a spin that was put on the results of a study that was reasonably designed to show something different than what the spin is saying it does.
Are you adequate?
I think the survey missed one of the key selling features of the iPod: iTunes integration. iTunes is a great media playback application and many people who use it love it, and find it convenient to get an iPod simply because they integrate so well. All you naysayers can talk about how it's not fair and every player should be able to sync up with iTunes, as it's only fair, but those companies are allowed to attempt to build a killer app that beats iTunes.
One of the zune's biggest weaknesses will be that it will sync with what... your windows media player? Ugh, windows media player is just hideous in my opinion, and much slower than iTunes. My G3 300MHz box handles iTunes alright, I doubt a P-II 500 (with the same amount of RAM( could even handle a WMP install with 5000+ songs in it well.
Phil
I'm not sure the methodology for this study is adequate to draw these conclusions. It asks: of iPod owners, of those who are likely to buy a new music player in the next 12 months, 58% said they were somewhat likely or very likely to buy a Zune. However, if you own an iPod, and plan to buy a new one, you are already selecting a segment which is relatively more likely to be disloyal/unhappy with the product. Not that it's a complete correlation, but most people, really, aren't frantically trying to replace a music player which works adequately for them. However, people who strongly dislike the iPod, or iTunes, or Apple, or whatever, are quite likely to want to replace it.
I would like to know, of iPod owners, if they were to buy a new player, what would they get, irrespective of whether they are planning to buy one. This is a better sense of loyalty, because for most people, even 2G iPod and most 3G iPod owners, probably have no plans to buy a new one if they are satisfied. At least, this is my suspicion.
I do feel that this illustrates the basic fact that if you ask the correct survey question, you can get a statistic that makes nearly whatever point you'd like.
Amen.
Some one is going to invent a better music player and beat the crap out of Apple and then all of you nay sayers are going to wish that you had listened to us super geniuses. Sure it may take ten or so years and we will have had to suffer through countless frustrating hours with music players that turned out to be crap, but in the end, if we keep believing and chanting long enough, it will be true. Excuse me. I need to go chant. ooooommmmm Bill Gate is King, Bill Gates is King ooooommmmm ooooommmmm
I don't remember where I read this but the author made a really good point. The article was about drm and security. But he noted that iPod users might not switch to other mp3 players because they have invested lots of money into their iPod that they would loose. You buy an iPod then you buy throughout the years or whatever $200 of music that has iTunes drm which only works with iPods. If I was in this situation I wouldn't want to switch either. Now the question is how many iPod users have an invested interest to not switch ?
...theres a little too much vitriol in your post to believe I make you smile :)
Anyways, you completely missed the point of my post. Beebird didn't touch a nerve, his post was just an unbelievably cuntish example of an annoying trend in Slashdot posts to make sweeping generalisations about 'Joe Sixpack'. I'm not an art kid, an iPod ownder, or an asshole - I just take offence to people who think they're superior and that they've got everyone else worked out. You know, people like you.
1) Is anyone really surprised?
2) who cares? - Is this really news worthy?
Giving IE users a taste of their own medicine since 2005 - http://pods.-is-a-geek.net/
I'd disown/shun anyone who purchased music players based on statistics, and at the end of the day it doesn't matter what people say, it matters what people do.
I hope you go far making decisions for your company based upon personal goals of spite.
You're a straight shooter with upper level management written all over you.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
If the headphones are going to anything like what comes with the iPod, it's really better to ship without. Damn those things sound terrible. A $15 Sony set I got at Best Lie sound much better.
"It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
Actually, the new nanos are very nice for one reason: long battery life per charge. Being able to run up to 24 hours before needing a recharge is very nice, especially if you listen to the player on long international flights. The new iPod Shuffle only lasts up to 12 hours on a single charge is something I don't desire, especially when listening to multiple podcasts that last well over a hour per podcast.
Actually yes, that page does mean that the iPod doesn't come with in-ear headphones or a charger.
The in-ear headphones are far more expensive than the default earbuds you get with the iPod. Older gen iPods did come with a charger that plugged into the end of the Firewire cable, but that doesn't ship with new iPods either.
Ok, I'll buy that on the interface issue - the backing out of menu issue is annoying, but not overly so, and I certainly don't want some of the other "features" that someone else might want. ;)
On the playlist issue, I think the confusion comes about when going to your playlist - the list shows up in order, whether shuffle is on or not. Playing songs however (just confirmed) does result in a shuffle. The shuffle songs options is a bit confusing.
On two-way transfers, yes, I'd like it to go back to my main computer, at least the playlist. Here's a scenario: I rate songs on my ipod, the songs don't get updated on my original playlist. I delete items off my playlist directly on my iPod, the playlist on the computer also never updates. These symptoms are not user friendly, and they should work transparently, with maybe a pop-up that you've got changes between the two, would you like to see the updates. I'm not even talking about transferring songs back and forth, just the meta-info. As for songs, if they're not DRM'd, e.g., they're my content, what difference does it make to Apple how/when I transfer them? They're not Apple's to worry about or "sanction" one way or the other.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
What the heck? There are two places for shuffle - on the main menu, and under settings. If you set it to 'songs' in settings (like the GP said), then select your playlist, that playlist is shuffled, not the entire library. The one on the main menu does the whole library shuffle.
thank you - this I did not know... now I won't have to sync every time I get bored with the order of songs...
If Zune encroaches on iPod's market share, as an iPod owner what do I care?
If the 16 year old teenage girls only buy the pink iPod nanos but only load music on them from their Dells, as an iMac owner what do I care?
As long as there are good choices out there for everyone, isn't that living in a monopoly-free free market is all about?