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The Zune Cometh
Well, except for those hiding under a mountain of used iPod batteries, it's fairly well known that the Zune iPod-wannabe killer is coming out Monday/Tuesday. There's a piece in the NYTimes about counting on the wireless part of the Zune to take down the iPod as well as some interviews with people involved in the creation. But OTOH, RoughlyDrafted (which has had a series of pieces about the Zune) points out some issues with the DRM systems, and forecasts a number of issues — and also calls out what they called a "Digg Fraud Campaign". But soon — the market decides.
our new Blue Screen of Death masters..
You know what's funny? It's easy to say bad things about a large company because they have marketing departments & businessmen running them. Oftentimes, marketing and business involve areas of questionable ethics & integrity--or the sheer will to sell your product at any cost since that's your paycheck. Is a "Digg fraud Campaign" really that surprising?
Microsoft is doing horrible things here
You know what is also funny? It's easy to say good things about a large company because they have a lot of resources and can accomplish a lot for the consumer. Stand back, I'm about to say something that will ensure this post hits rock bottom on the karma: Microsoft has done good things for computing. And you know what? So has Apple. I've used products of both of them to varying levels of success in my past--and that in and of itself is something.
Now consider the fact that both Microsoft & Apple are very large companies. This Zune/iPod crap is always going to happen and they love that it's in the public's eye.
My work here is dung.
Well, except for those hiding under a mountain of used iPod batteries
I, for one, can't wait to get my hands on a Zune, with its new infinitely-rechargable battery technology. It uses a nickel-adamantium alloy, right?
Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
imagine a wirelessly-connected beowulf cluster of these!
Extraordinary Vacations. Exceptional Prices
Microsoft has done the same silly and futile stuff with the Xbox and Xbox 360 over the past five years or so with really nothing to show for their efforts.
Fake blogs.
Microsoft employees furiously posting after work spreading FUD about competitors products.
Marketing firms running 'post/discussion board sweatshops' - people getting paid min wage to sit around posting pro-Microsoft/anti-competitor product replies and submitting stories all day long.
And probably a whole bunch of other crap.
With the 360 selling worse than the first Xbox, I doubt these similar tactics will save the Zune from the Bob pile up there in Redmond.
mmMmm. There appears to be a zune.net.
Extraordinary Vacations. Exceptional Prices
I noticed while looking through the newspaper adds this weekend that there isn't much of a marketing hype around Zune. It was buried in all the adds and the biggest selling point I found was that you could put your own picture on on the background. It was also interesting to see that the Microsoft name was no where to be found. I was really expecting to see front pages ads, WIRELESS in big letters and Microsofts weight behind it all. It was also interesting to note that the accessory packs advertised with it were $80-$100, I guess they are trying to beat apple at the sucker game. All in all I didn't see anything to win over the mass market.
In related news, if you Google the phrase "wiki zune" you get the following results. Look at the second listed item.
There is no mod option "-1: Disagree" for a reason. "Overrated" is not an acceptable substitute. Post something instead.
The submitter calls the Zune an "iPod wannabe-killer".
That would make it something that kills iPod wannabe's, like Creative or Rio or Sandisk players. I wonder whether that is what the submitter meant, or did he mean "wannabe iPod" or "wannabe iPod-killer"? And I wonder what Microsoft's goal is?
There's no still reason on whether or not the battery is removable. My number one reason for buying an MP3 player other than an iPod was that the iPod's battery can't easily be removed - in fact, the Nano's is even soldered in, so levering it out isn't an option.
...the entire article is supposition and not even logically thought out supposition.
See the paragraph below:
"For example, Murphey has been working to create rumors of an imminently available new "video iPod," apparently in an effort to try to get iPod buyers to hold off on their purchases and perhaps consider the Zune."
That doesn't make any sense at all. If Murphey is trying to get people more interested in Zune and wanting to buy a Zune, why would he suggest that a new iPod is coming out. This would actually make people considering a Zune potentially abort that purchase waiting for Apple to produce an iPod with WiFi or something similar.
Much of the accusation in that 'article' is logically weak like this one and actually supplies nothing but pure speculation.
That crap aside, nobody is going to kill the iPod, it's a behemoth now.
Loading...
Of course it does... just as soon as someone finds a way to insert arbitrary kernel mode code execution into a DRM'd WMA 10 file.
Fear is the mind killer.
Can someone help me here? I have a dead 60 gig ipod, so I can either get it fixed for $250 (wow so generous thanks apple) or get a zune. Will the zune allow me to play my current mp3 collection without doing any bullshit DRM to it? And will it allow me to beam this music to other people who can play it as much as they want? This is the only way I would get one. Does it come in a larger size than 30gb? Im guessing the answer to all these are no. My broken ipod still has no real competition. Sad.
If you do some complex math Zune = BSOD, here is my proof!
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/newsbleat01
is that the screen is "portrait" oriented, allowing a larger screen on the device. simply rotate the device 90 degrees to watch video.
however, the thing is rather large as a whole. would fit great in a bag, don't know about a pocket....
mr c
"Physics is like sex. Sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it." - R. Feynman
Dislocating my jaw when I yawn like that.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Pot, meet kettle.
unless Microsoft figure a way of rigging it.
Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious
Will Vista's release be in the 'Apple' section as well?
I'm getting a Vision M. Cheaper, more video files support, and not as trendy as an iPod. Maybe in a couple of years when the Zune shrinks and gets more diversity in file support I'll look into it. In other news, why is it so hard for companies to make a portable audio/video player that supports tons of codecs and is USB mass storage?
In Soviet Russia, dots slash you!
Clunkier than an ipod. Crippled wifi. Lame.
insert inflammatory anti-microsoft comment here
the next Ipod coming out with wireless support. Seriously if the wireless feature becomes such a large hit on the Zune, Apple will be quick to follow. With it's existing user base they'll easily crush the Zune. Bonus points if apple makes it so Ipods can sync files from Zunes.
I think this will work with the OS as poeple don't really try to understand how their PC works, but I question this dethroning the simplicity and popularity of the iPod and iTMS combo.
I will also point out the obvious that MS has seeded quite a few landscapers here on Slashdot lately, but I'm sure one will come along soon and prove my point...
Microsoft is not even challenging the most popular of the iPod lineup. Seeing that the iPod nano is the most popular of the iPod lineup (even without video).... how exactly is the Zune an iPod killer? The Zune is not a killer to anything until MS has a device to challenge the tiny iPod Nano and iPod Shuffle. One device is not going to "kill" iPod, or even hurt it.
Checked one out yesterday, the 60's Soviet looking shit-brown one. The screen is gorgeous but the unit itself is OMG XOBX HUEG. What's with Microsoft and huge hardware? It is too big and bulky to be carried in my pocket.
The perfect sig is a lot like silence, only louder
simply rotate the device 90 degrees to watch video.
HOLY SHIT! I never thought of that!
Can you please teach me how to rotate it 90 degrees? Do you think it will also work for all those photos I have, that are on a 90 degree angle for some reason, too? They look so silly on the wall with everything sideways like that...
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
Just like the Oragami
I'm an early adopter and usually purchase many products like this that come out. I'm really looking forward to it.
I was at EB Games over the weekend playing the Wii (ok, maybe I am a fanboy too now) and I overheard an employee talking to some customers about the wonders of the Zune. It's much sleeker, looks better, is thinner, and has a bigger screen... you know, all of the important things.
Nobody ever mentions DRM, good or bad. I wonder if anyone realizes if they switch to Zune from iPod, there music doesn't go with them?
Starmen.net
The problem with the Zune is unfortunately that it will be compared to the iPod. On it's own the Zune seems to be a decent enough MP3 player. To differentiate from the iPod, MS has put in some interesting features. To me though, these features all have caveats. For example, MS is marketing that the Zune has wireless. Technically true but it's not wireless like you'd expect in a laptop. Really, it's limited wireless sharing with another Zune. It plays video but you can't really buy any from Zune marketplace right now. It's got a bigger screen but has the same resolution as an iPod so your pictures are larger because the pixels are larger. It's got the same capacity as the 30GB iPod but you can't use it as a portable harddrive. And so on. I'm not buying it because there are no killer features that I really want. I feel sorry for those who don't research these things and end up with a player that doesn't do what they thought it would do.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Once the public gets wind of another iPod killer missing the mark, those brave 'early adopters' that sprang for a Zune will be looking to find a use for the darn things, since no one will want to take it off their hands. In that spirit, here is a list of the Top Ten things to do with an unwanted Zune...
:)
10. Use it to tell peoples' fortunes down at the pier on weekends. Put it on random play and see what mysticism is invoked when their dead Uncle Bob speaks to them from the other side.
9. Doorstop...
8. Paperweight...
7. Water-saver (brick) for the downstairs toilet.
6. Donate it to the local SPCA as a chew toy and claim a nice tax credit.
5. Run it over with the lawnmower, making sure to video tape the staged incident and go for the big prize on AFHVs' - if you can get it to play something by Jim Morrison during the slaughter, all the better.
4. Grind it up into powder and tiny shavings, mix it with your daily bowl of All Bran and notify Guinness WRs' that you just ate your Zune!
3. Set it to play an endless loop of a load ticking clock. Put it into a plain brown grocery bag, leave it on the steps of your local courthouse and call in a fake bomb scare. Another candidate for AFHVs'
2. Scuff the back side, claim you can see Jesus in the markings, build a makeshift loft in the backyard and call the Enquirer.
1. Soak it in lighter fluid and gun powder, set it up at the local firing range and charge $5 bucks a bullet to let your friends see who can turn it into a low-budget, low-orbit msICBM.
So...Does anyone else on here just plain outright hate Microsoft?
I was at EB Games over the weekend playing the Wii, which is amazing (Ok maybe I am a fanboy too now), and overheard a few employees talking with some customers about the Zune. They touched on all of the important topics: it's screen is larger, it's much better looking, and thinner (?). Of course, no mention of DRM, good or bad.
It seems nobody ever seems concerned about the fact that their iTunes music will not go with them if they move on to another player. Now, I realize a lot of people don't buy iTunes music for their iPod (my wife, for example)... but I know that a lot of people do.
Starmen.net
it's fairly well known that the Zune iPod-wannabe killer is coming out Monday/Tuesday.
Talk about a serious case of forgetting the past.
I, for one, just love how every kid with an iPod thinks they're onto something new and now that MS has a music player out there suddenly it's because of Apple? Granted, Apple certainly is the largest seller in the market today but they're far from the first and from where I stand (with my Archos FM Recorder 20 unit) they're far from innovative. Is the iPod nicer than my Archos? Maybe. It's smaller, todays models have better features but 5+ years ago when I got my Archos I got it a just over half the price of a first generation iPod with a 20gig drive. I also believe my Archos predates any iPod out there.
Is it a bit bulky? Yeah. I don't really recall how bulky the first gen Apple players were to make a comparison. But after all these years my battery is still hanging in there like a champ and RockBox works great with it. I don't even know if RockBox works on iPods or Zunes.
Someday in the future I may have to buy a new player and I'll be honest... when it comes down to the iPod and Zune crowds there are too many lemmings for me to care about a namebrand. Don't get me wrong, I will surely consider them both but I'm not going to fall for the "It's an iPod wanna-be" line. To me the iPod is an Archos wanna-be that has been leeched onto by a bunch of n00bs.
Without seeing how "bulky*" the Zune is I can't think of a good reason why to shell out extra $$$ for the same player with an Apple logo.
* Bulky is relative, don't think it's a misgiving for some people. I still laugh when people call IBM T40 Think Pads "bulky".
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
... that Microsoft seems to be getting more and more into hardware. They have keyboards, mice, XBoxes, now Zunes. For a while there they were making routers and access points (don't know if they are still in this business). I half expect them to make phones and PDAs, but so far they have steered clear; perhaps the Zune will evolve in that direction. Then they will have the XBox to usurp the PC and the Zune to usurp the phone/PDA.
The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
I overheard an employee talking to some customers about the wonders of the Zune. It's much sleeker, looks better, is thinner, and has a bigger screen... you know, all of the important things.
I keep hearing about how Zune is slimmer, smaller, and has a better screen. But when I look at the specs, the 30 GB iPod seems to be actually a tad smaller and lighter than the Zune. The screen resolution is the same, so Zune just has larger pixels.
Zune:
2.48" W x 4.17" H x 0.65" D. Weight:, 6 oz. Resolution: 240x320
30 GB iPod:
Height: 4.1 inches
Width: 2.4 inches
Depth: 0.43 inch
Weight: 4.8 ounces
Display: 2.5-inch QVGA 320 by 240 pixel resolution
Also, I have heard that the Zune's "wheel" is not a wheel at all. The reviews suggest that the Zune has a regular 4-button "D-pad" menu button arrangement hidden behind that round black wheel-looking thing.
Who is correct here? Have I been reading iPod fanboy BS?
Interesting title. I didn't know Apple made Zune...
Work smarter, not harder.
A guy who went to Best Buy and wanted to order a Zune, actually took it home right away and posted his pictures online. He did get an unexplained system error though.
"As there is a was source of slow witted lemmings"
Wow.. I recognize all of those words but...
Well yeah, I heard about it on Slashdot, but we're nerds. Outside of this, I've seen the Ps3 creepy baby ad, I've seen information about the Wii. I've YET to see anything about the Zune, the date of the Zune, or why I should want one?
Microsoft has really dropped the ball on this one. A tech with out an idea what their product is? Well I'm very sure I know what an Ipod is (haven't got one, but I could tell you everything about it). If I haven't heard of it, then who has really?
Maybe the advertising is coming, but if this is the extent of it (stories on slashdot) they better not have paid more then a couple hundred for it.
Not specifically with Digg, but the numerous blogs that spin a story to shed Sony and the PS3 in the worst possible light. Take an original article, one which lists positive and negative sides of the PS3, and blog about the negative. Another blog links to the negative blog and paraphrases the negative story. Soon you have a disproportionate ratio of blogs that take a negative spin to the article, compared to the article itself. They spam Google News, since Google News cites blogs as sources. It's not surprising that since Microsoft is often the biggest advertiser of many sites, that they hold tremendous influence in the "reporting" of these blogs. Blogging has long been recognized by Microsoft as a way to attack competition, even while seeming to be neutral.
It only needs charging once and powers the zune forever.
The first article is legitimate news but the second two aren't even close. Who goes to the trouble of making that many images just to slam a new product? Slashdot shouldn't be giving press to scrubs like these.
no, text. no.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
I'm trying to read the articles,b ut, it appears their CSS is off...adds are floating around blocking parts of the article.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
An IHP-120 running Rockbox (open-source) so it plays FLAC (open-source, lossless) recordings.
Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
Microsoft has made blogs an essential part of their marketing plans. Weren't they at some point encouraging their employees to blog? I wouldn't be surprised to find some blog sites that are paid by Microsoft - monetarily or by other mean, to be pro-Microsoft or anti-compeition. If this were the case, I'd suspect Kotaku, Gizmodo, and Joystiq are part of this "ring". They may say a few negative things about Microsoft to throw people off, but many of these sites expouse a general positive message regarding Microsoft and negative messages about their competitors.
I just found the following comparison photos. Not sure if they're genuine or not, but they are interesting.t ml
http://www.cliczune.com/2006/10/zune_review_ipo.h
So the killer feature everyone is talking about is the ability to send songs and pictures to friends with Zune players. Cool idea. But the DRM will disable any transferred song after it is played three times or after three days whichever comes first.
I can see legally why thay had to do that, but I'm not sure that makes the wireless feature the killer app everyone thinks it is. Sure, some people may buy a song a friend sends them that they like after listening to it a couple of times, but again - neat feature, but not sure it's going to make Jobs quake in his boots.
Top Most Bizarre/Disturbing Error Messages
Coming Zune from Microsoft? In soviet Russia Zune comes on YOU!? Which is better, Zune or sex with a mare? I've got a hot Zune down my pants with pictures of Natalie Portman, naked and petrified? I kid, I kid...
I think that you'll find the market breakdown between Zune and the iPod will fall along the same lines that you see in the PC vs. Mac world. The people who want the "stylish and beautiful" device will still buy iPods. The people who want the utilitarian device with more features than sense, will buy the Zune. The wireless functionality of the Zune is a perfect example. To paraphrase Jobs, who WANT that sort of thing when you can just swap your [insert music player here] with a friend for a few minutes to listen to the songs on each other's players to see if you want to buy the tracks? (Funny how 80s Walkman technology, the 1/8" headphone plug, is perfectly compatible with nearly every music player out there. Don't expect that to last much longer... it keeps the goons from making more money through artifical restrictions.) The ridiculous filesharing that deletes itself thanks to DRM is just another component bound to cause more negative user experiences than positive ones. But, the fact is that Zune will likely break even or tank. I don't see it becoming the defacto standard as iPod has. Hell, I own a Rio Karma (they RULE BTW...) and I can attest to the fact that EVERY digital music player or service you want is made for the iPod. The FM transmitter I bought along with it's cigarette lighter adapter has a funny extra plug on it that is specifically for the iPod and totally useless on my Karma. Again... the problem of not using or establishing any kind of REAL drafted standard.
IF there were an actual standard, then the Zune and the iPod would be able to actually compete on their merits rather than artifically limiting each other. I'd say a reasonable standard would look like this:
1. A standard interface for purchasing/downloading music within the player itself rather than through a PC. This would happen via WiFi or a NIC or even a cell phone data link
2. Standard bluetooth for sending the audio data to a bluetooth headphone, or in-dash blue tooth enabled car stereos. This would eliminate the interference that you experience on the road while other people blast Howard Stern with their Sirius sets
3. A standard hardware interface for a dock that all players would utilize regardless of shape or size
4. Standard power jacks that are multipurpose for car, house or even USB power
5. A standard underlying base OS that could have extras layered on top of it to extend functionality and support for additional features in software and extended hardware features as well
6. Interaction with other bluetooth devices so that you could also use them as data drives, or even personal answering machines for cell phones (screw voice mail...)
Just a few ideas which I'm sure the "elite" here will rip apart. My point is that Zune is not going to be able to easily usurp the lead that Apple has at the moment. The only way they will is if Apple rests on their laurels and doesn't provide the next "high".
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
...you're comparing apples and oranges.
Get it??
Apples?!?
Ah, forget it.
sometimes even one letter might be useful, was -> wast (as in very large)
I guess the lemmings took the t away.
Check this link here:w are-available-for-download/
:)
http://tech.cybernetnews.com/2006/11/12/zune-soft
Now count the days left until the 3-limit plays are disabled and everybody will share endlessly
"the killer feature everyone is talking about is the ability to send songs and pictures to friends with Zune players"
Everyone knows the avg slashdot reader has no friends - that s why we re still ipod fanboys..
Someone had entered "This is gay" for the English > Spanish combo, and you wouldn't believe the number of idiots that actually responded with "Esto es un homosexual".
Check this out: http://www.scripting.com/2006/11/12.html#When:9:52 :06AM
Apparently if you want to do some cross promotion with Microsoft, you have to agree to not make disparaging remarks about Microsoft or the Zune. It will be interesting to see which websites are willing to be muzzled in order to get some traffic.
Bravo to Andrew Baron of Rocketboom for not selling out.
-ec
If you look at the first run of commercials-- which you will undoubtedly be seeing every time you turn on the TV--you've got to wonder just what the hell Microsoft is thinking.
These ads show people out in public, at parties and concerts, with friends; there's talking, laughing, dancing; a DJ or a band playing music. And somehow you're supposed to make the connection that these are the perfect places to put on your headphones and listen to your own music.
"Wow, I'm glad I paid $20 for a ticket to this concert with all of these people! Now I'm going to listen to my $250 Zune by myself! Welcome to the Social."
Don't become a regular here -- you will become retarded.
That doesn't make any sense at all. If Murphey is trying to get people more interested in Zune and wanting to buy a Zune, why would he suggest that a new iPod is coming out. This would actually make people considering a Zune potentially abort that purchase waiting for Apple to produce an iPod with WiFi or something similar.
Actually, it does make some sense. Imagine you're a weak-minded consumer and you're going to buy an iPod tomorrow, and I'm selling Zunes. Now, if you buy that iPod tomorrow, there's no way you buy a Zune. Of course, I'm going to tell you about this Zune thing, but one day of my evangelism probably won't win you over. Unless I do something drastic, you buy that new iPod tomorrow.
So I bust out the big gun. I start an unfounded rumor that Apple is coming out with a Video iPod next month. You think, there's no way I'm buying a new iPod if there's a new one out next month. See, I just got you to postpone your iPod purchase! This gives me time to convince you that the Zune is great. It gives me time to get the Zune in people's hands, and allows you to *see* the Zune. If my marketing blitz worked, then it'll give you time to maybe think that this old Zune thing isn't so bad after all. The only problem is that you're still pining for that video iPod, and won't touch my Zune.
Next month, you're still holding out for that new Video iPod. By now, even though you're a weak-minded consumer, you've figured out that video iPod was just a rumor. Problem is, you still need a new music player. In the meantime, I've been telling every day you how great the Zune is.
If I've done my job, I've made you more likely to buy a Zune now that you've had a chance to see it and its marketing in action than you were before. With one little rumor, I got you not to buy an iPod at least until I've had a chance to demo my product. There was no chance you bought a Zune before, AND I would have lost you as a consumer for probably 2 years. Now, I at least get a crack at you.
The key here is that there isn't actually a video ipod coming soon, and the slick marketeer I am, I know that. ;)
that unless you've seen the paystubs from an astroturfer's check, you're just speculating.
So...Does anyone else on here just plain outright hate Microsoft?
Yes, sir. I have been since Feb 1995 when I bought my first PC (486dx2-66) and found that Windows 3.x sucked, sucked(!), and MS were doing unethical (by my standards) things to keep superior, competing products (mainly OS/2) from the masses.
To me they represent all that is vile about corporations, disregarding the greater good of all for their own financial enrichment...
The hardware seems really nice with its generous screen and built-in Wi-Fi. As soon as someone puts out a firmware replacement with a web browser, real wi-fi connectivity, support for more music formats, and sharing without DRM, I'll pick one up. Really.
Burger King vs McDonalds
and now
iPod vs Zuni
Two dominant players will divide the market in two and concentrate on killing off all the smaller competition while pretending to compete with each other.
There's just no interest in Zune so far. The "Digg Fraud" campaign is the sort of thing I ws expecting when I wrote this entry -
y =zune_meme_rerun
http://www.realmeme.com/roller/page/realmeme?entr
But, does it run Rockbox ?
But there is no way I am going to recommend someone get Microsoft Zune. Especially with the DRM-hell that one article talks about, last thing I want to do is recommend a device with a DRM system that is going to give them more problems then something simple & somewhat consistent(Fairplay).
While streaming & sharing stuff can be nice, I can see people coming out of this with a bitter taste in their mouth over the DRM. The hassle might make it more worth it to people to download the "DRM free" mp3 version, or get their friend to give them a DRM-free copy of their MP3s, music CDs, etc.
So while I wouldn't quickly recommend that someone get an iPod(while less of a pain, it has it's own DRM issues), I sure would talk them out of getting a Zune.
Oh, and have you seen those "Zune Points"? No one in their right mind will trust that system.
Way to gain marketshare, guys!!! Jobs and Co. have to be dancing a jig at this "launch"...
I don't think it's unusual at all to see 25-30 buries with only a few comments - most of the time if I bury something, I think it's lame enough that I wouldn't waste the energy to comment on it - also I don't like drawing attention to the item as things with more comments tend to get dugg up (since people use "digg" as a bookmark to read later.
I actually think RDM has some pretty good content, I didn't understand why some digg users seemed to be against it - I mean it actually has some original writing and decent research, which is more than you can say for a lot of blogs. So as a reader I have to side with RDM on who is being treated unfairly here.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
On another note, I wonder if Zune will have the upcoming Brock Human album?
Unfortunatelly the Aliens will then decide that we are really bellow the minimal level of inteligence needed to be allowed to keep a planet and we well be all be exiled to the radiocative salt mines of xzzvfksskdsfljk.
Hey man, better than having to wear a Brown Zune in public.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
For some time now, I have really wondered what the heck was going on with the campaign against RDM. I mean here is someone who goes to a fair degree of trouble to write up interesting compilation stories with some meat to them, more than a simple blog post. Yet there seem to be many digg users against the site, which seemed really odd to me...
Also I agree that the preponderance of pro-Zune articles are really fishy. It very much has the feel of a community at work to push an agenda.
However I don't think the work they are doing will come to much as the device itse;f will dictate how consumers see it, and a few key tech omissions (like no WiFi browsing and most importantly the inability to use the 30GB drive as a mounted storage device) will wipe out any gains from the pro-Zune campaign.
I actually for some time thought the stories about not being able to mount the Zune as a storage device were the work of an anti-Zune faction - little did I realize those were accurate leaks!!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I still have, and use daily, my 1st-gen iPod.
They were larger than current models but did easily fit in my jeans pocket, as promised. I don't recall the Archos being quite that small.
And my battery is just fine thanks, still holds 9 hours+ on a full charge.
I think however the complaints about the iPod battery are quite silly now - you can have Apple put in a new battery for the same cost you would have spent on rechargeable under the same load (they don't last forever) or new removable batteries.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Easy and Simple to use, according to you, is the same thing. Did you just need to flesh out your list?
I think he mean to type something else, that does look odd - he might have meant simple to use and easy to understand. It's the only consumer electronics item my fiance has accepted and used without my help.
Fast? Umm.... yeah... I've seen benchmarks of other MP3 players and let me tell you, my Archos plays like a 45 at 33RPM. WTF is "fast" supposed to mean?
Fast as in transfer speed TO the device, harking back to its being the first to make use of a high-speed data connection to the computer. That's why I bought the first one, because it was also a great portable hard drive with a good connection speed and compact size.
Small? Because a couple of extra ounces makes a difference to me how?
It makes a difference to women with purses, they like smaller things that don't take up the whole space.
Anyone who has ever gone hiking understands the difference a more compact size and lighter weight can make in terms of true portability. The more portable a device is, the more often you will actually have it with you to use. If I'm going to spend a lot of money on a player I want it a size I know I'll take with my and use.
Especially when I had a capacity your iPod simply didn't have at the time? Or how about a data transfer standard that your iPod didn't have at the time?
That comparison is pretty meaningless since the iPod supported a standard with the same speed, and iPods added USB 2.0 support shortly after.
Come on now. Yeah, it's smaller but the Archos was the player that fit my needs at the time. I was left to either carrying 4 iPods or 1 Archos for the capacity.
I have more music than will fit on my 1G iPod but that was never an issue - the whole reason you have a high transfer speed is so you can easily swap songs on the device. Were you really listening to more than 5GB of music in one go before you were at a computer again?
That's actually why I still have a 1G iPod and not a new one, I have seen no need to buy another one when I already have days of music on tap.
How can you make it seem like there is still an arguement here? If the unit doesn't fit my needs it simply doesn't fit my needs! Bottom line. I guess if 10 buttons is too complex for you than certainly the iPod fits your needs better.
The argument arises because some of us have used both UI's and you don't need ten buttons. What "features" does that offer that the iPod does not with fewer buttons? The engineer in me thinks that you are just resisting functional simplicity to be obstinate, and not for any rational reasons.
Remember also the iPod scroll wheel is the equivalent of two buttons, so it's really more like seven - not so far removed from your device.
So go ahead, enjoy your iPod. I still have my own satisfaction from buying what I feel is a better player for the money at the time. Apple didn't offer a product within my needs and today I do not need a new player because my old one works just fine.
Well there we are in agreement, that's why I still have my original iPod.
I'm glad the Archos works for you but why harp on the iPod?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
iPods also support Apple's lossless compression, so it may not be as much of a killer as you think - and converting one lossless format to another is still lossless so you loose, well, nothing.
I'm kind of waiting for iPods to reach 120GB, then I might consider a move to lossless - currently I just have way to much music to go for that option (even just in terms of desktop storage).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I can see legally why thay had to do that, but I'm not sure that makes the wireless feature the killer app everyone thinks it is.
There was no LEGAL requirement they do this, it was the desire not to be sued and also the desire to have major labels support the Microsoft music store.
So Microsoft had much less power in Zune feature design than you might imagine from a company so large. That is also why they are paying a portion of the proceeds for each Zune sold to the the music studios, to cover "stolen" music user might play. No joke! This is what Apple would have to do if they were building an iPod today.
I actually thought wireless might have been a really interesting feature, but as you note they totally crippled it. I think Apple's take on wireless would be to use a slower Bluetooth connection and use that to argue with the studios that they could leave the file open after transfer. That would certainly be quite a countermove, if indeed they decide to support wireless ever and don't decide it adds too much complexity for little gain (an argument I could see).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Is it me or does the ability to send music and photos wirelessly to the Zune seem to say "SPAM ME"?
I mean, it's only a matter of time before non-Zunes can send music and photos to Zunes, and you know marketers^Wspammers will love the ability to set up a WiFi card and start blasting out music and photos to all Zunes nearby...
(And I'm sure whatever method Zune uses to ensure that you cannot send the same file again to the same Zune to avoid the 3-day 3-play DRM will be used, leading to bunches of people unable to send files at all because everyone's Zune will say "Dupe, not gonna let ya").
Though, it might be fun sitting on the commuter train with a high-poweree wifi card sending images and the like to unsuspecting people.
(This assumes that you can recceive photos and music on a blanket basis - after all, if you have to get near someone to tell them to activate the receive function, you might as well podjack^Wzunejack and do other things while you're close. Otherwise its wireless isn't terribly useful as a social tool if you have to walk up to people first.)
I had USB2 on mine and it was usable as a portable HD too. For the portable HD arguement I could also easily use the concept that USB was (and is) more common even if it is using USB1.1
You act as though iPod owners had no knowledge of other players. But that is wrong, very wrong... I had two or three before the iPod.
Even without the larger storage the iPod offered, USB 1.1 was WAY TOO SLOW to be of any use in a player. It made me pretty much never update them after the first four-hour load.
Yes the Archos was also a portable HD, but Apple was there first and fastest.
At the time Apple simply didn't offer USB support.
True but at that time they DID suppport Firewire on PC's, you could have bought an adapter card which did not cost that much at the time. Isn't that why people have PC's, so they can expand them?
It's not a matter of the quantity but the selection. I have a fairly large music collection and a lot of different musical interests. This is the same reason I don't listen to the radio in my car... it's a matter of selection.
So do I, I have classical and Wierd Al and opera and techno and jungle and podcasts and jpop and synthpop, in addition to more popular stuff. I'm not saying more space would not be nice but it's never really felt constrained. I don't mean to turn this into a "5GB should be enough for anyone quote" so I'll leave it at that being space enough you can carry a lot of diversity with you, with larger sizes offer conveniences on top.
So in my pointing out a few mistakes (and again admitting to my own mistake) I got brought into a debate about how much "better" an iPod is. Again, while this may be true today it was not true of my needs at the time I bought an Archos.
Ok, sounds fine to me. I'm not really into a fight either as I respect the other MP3 players as well, they just aren't for me.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Yet on my cellphone, all I need to do is open the battery compartment (no tool required) and put in the extra battery.
Do you actually own, and, charge, a secondary battery for your cellphone?
I have yet to meet anyone that does, despite the fact they can.
Since iPod battery lives are 12 hours+, there generally is no need to worry about charge on a given day. The only use I have for extra batteries is when I am out in the field with a portable storage device, and even then I just bought a new device that has enough of a battery charge (on internal proprietary batteries) that I don't need a spare.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Nice list, except that (A) the WiFi DOES wrap all songs in a three-play DRM, and you left out the one item that will kill it for 99% of Slashdot readers - you can't mount it as mass storage! Who carries around something that large that you can't mount for storage?
I would have said 100% of Slashdot readers except that I feel sure you will respond with some reason why that works for you.
If people must buy a non-iPod, why not look at a Sansa?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Here are solid, concrete reasons.
1) The Zune does not mount as a mass storgae device - you cannot copy your own files onto or off of the device without using the custom Zune software. Wouldn't want those damn dirty Linux users somehow being able to touch it like they can with an iPod.
2) If you think about it, what is WiFi in this device going to give you? Not much. I can see WiFi being of use in some cases but not really in the ways the Zune is making use of it. Sharing music is cool but the trouble with the three-play DRM have been noted and in addition, you'll have the WiFi turned off after the first day due to shorter battery life. If it's not on are you REALLY going to use it? You can't see who might have a Zune around you as they'll have theirs off as well. So you loose the whole viral networking angle (as if the non-ability to retransmit songs didn't do that already).
I would be pretty excited to see a company like Rio do wireless music sharing right, and equally look forward to seeing how they fare in the lawsuit. I think they would win actually, but what a cost they would pay!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
To be honest, I don't think the Zune is going to do well. The hardware is decent, but the OS is nerfed into insignificance. However, I'm sure people are already thinking about a custom Zune OS that allows you to:
...
1) Wirelessly share anything, with no restrictions
2) Use the Zune as a portable storage device (ie: drive letter on your PC)
3) Play Xvid/DivX/Theora/etc
4) Record from radio
5)
6) Profit!!
Let's fast forward to a time when this has been (well, apart from 6). Would people buy the Zune and use the new OS? What would Microsoft have to say about an indie (and probably OSS) project that takes their lame ass product and makes it awesome?
Another reason why Zune is going to be a flop. Staggering numbers of people that have iPods store their music in iTunes. Zune doesn't support importing protected AAC files, so if you've brought a few hundred tracks from Apple's Music Store and spent several weeks ripping your CD collection into iTunes (using protected AAC) then just how p*ssed are you going to be to discover that you have to reproduce all that hard work, time and money. Might as well just stick with the iPod.
Someone somewhere at Blendtec just started his blender.
---k--
</stupid>
The Zune sucketh.
Shop as usual. And avoid panic buying.
http://gotzuned.com/
Sure it's got wireless, but it's a huge brick.
My Christmas money is going on a iPod Nano PRODUCT (RED) 8GB model. My 3G iPod is still going strong - sure, battery is stuffed so playtime is now about 2 hours instead of 6, but at least the 40GB iPod still works as a 40GB Firewire/USB hard drive, while the Zune is a huge brick sitting on my desk wasting space while I play my music in iTunes.
The iPod Nano can fit in my shirt pocket, or it can squeeze in behind my mobile phone in the mobile phone pocket on my backpack. The Zune, being a huge brick, would have to take up space in my backpack. Along with my 3G iPod which is still functional after all these years (no battery replacement yet).
So: 3 year old iPod is still doing: calendar, contacts, music, and functions as an external hard drive. Zune would be doing: brick impressions.
Oh... I'm a Mac user by the way, so how am I supposed to load music onto the Zune for when I feel like lugging a huge brick around with me? I don't need to plug myself into a huge brick to compensate for lack of endowment. I'll buy the slim and fashionably coloured iPod Nano PRODUCT (RED) and have Apple send $10 off to help people in Africa survive against AIDS.
Who can resist a girl who can squirt?
Apple offers this?
I may have been a bit confusing in my wording; I did mean the Zune...
But that is also why I think we've not seen it from Apple, the features it would enable are a little too fringe for most people just now and so it would just clutter up the device. I would kind of like something even as slow as Bluetooth 2.0 just for podcast updates, which can be more frequently than music updates. But I can also live with hooking up a cable, it's only slightly more convienient and I'm not sure I would want even the slight battery loss from Bluetooth being on all the time or having to mess with turning it on when I can just attach a cable or plug it into a dock.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Off-topic. Rant. Anonymous to not burn karma. Won't be seen by most viewers.
Has the word "who" disappeared from the English language? These days it's usually switched to "that" when referring to the 3rd person ("the teacher that gave me the homework"), but here we have someone even referring to HIMSELF as a that! I guess that "whom" thing was so confusing, people decided to throw out "who" as well.
People are whos. Other things are thats.
I hope some artist who allows his or her track(s) to be downloaded for free as long as there is no DRM that limits how long or many times the song may be played were able to sue and possibly get something done about that. Worst case I'm sure microsoft would settle and the band would get a nice payout (unlike what the RIAA and studios pay out).
2ndly, another group of units I haven't heard mentioned in the IPod/Zune battle are the Pioneer Inno, Samsung Nexus & Helix, and the Directed Stiletto 100. The Inno and Helix and store 50 hours of Xm content, and up to half the memory space for MP3/WMA. Can listen to XM service while in your pocket, and broadcast to any radio via FM. The Nexus can do the same as the Inno/Helix, without being able to receive XM live unless in a dock.
The Sirius Stiletto 100 stores 100 Hours of Sirius/MP3/WMA, can recieve Sirius without needing to be in a dock, and if you're indoors it has Wi-Fi built in so it can still stream the Sirius channels to the unit via the internet. with the slim battery is plays 2 hours of live sirius while portable, 4 hours wifi mode, and 10 hours of stored content. With the extended capacity battery those times double.
Granted these units don't have the capacity of what can be found on the IPods or Zune, nor do they do video (yet!), but they may pull some sales away from the IPod and Zune this holiday season.
Prices depending on unit are reasonable: NeXuS 25 found for $109.99 with a $50 rebate: $59.99. NeXuS 50 found for $139.99 with a $50 rebate: $89.99. Helix $249.99 with a $50 rebate: $199.99. Inno $279.99 with a $50 rebate: $229.99. Stiletto 100 $329.99.
Power and battery(6)
.43") and heavier(5.5oz vs 4.8oz), so it must have a larger battery along with it's (physically) larger hard drive.
Built-in rechargeable lithium ion battery
Playback time (30GB model)
Music playback time: Up to 14 hours when fully charged
. . .
Playback time (80GB model)
Music playback time: Up to 20 hours when fully charged
So there you have it, 20 hrs for the 80GB and 14 for the 30GB. Just another reason to spend a little extra for the high end model. The 80GB ipod is thicker (.55" vs
Probably because they regret their choice of company name...
Funny... in the UK ' going down the social' meant going to the Social Security Office to collect your unemployment money... Is Microshaft trying to tell us something?
Mac OS X: I've upped my standards, so up yours.