US Bans Sales of iPods To North Korea

gamer4Life writes "The United States has created their list of products banned from being exported to North Korea. This list includes iPods, plasma televisions and Segway electric scooters. U.S. intelligence officials who helped produce the Bush administration's list said Kim prefers Mercedes, BMW and Cadillac cars; Japanese and Harley Davidson motorcycles; Hennessy XO cognac from France and Johnny Walker Scotch whisky; Sony cameras and Japanese air conditioners."

Comments

The Good Kind of Sanctions

[eldavojohn]

As I've posted before, I think this is a good approach.

There are good sanctions & bad sanctions. An example of bad sanctions were the sanctions the UN imposed against Iraq that caused a lot of human suffering. Yes, it put pressure on the dictator but it was easy ammo to use against the United States. Essentially claiming that we were starving and murdering the civilians--and I knew people that were saying we were doing horrible things!

When we impose sanctions on a country to pressure the dictator, I think that things like food, water, clothing & medicine should be increased with pro-American propaganda along with it. What we should decrease is things like automobiles, electronics & other high standard of living commodities. Therefore we make it annoying for the people of North Korea to get by but it isn't possible to point to conditions of people dying due to our sanctions.

Their economy might stagnate and people might die as a result of that but it's not so easy to point the finger at the UN then. In my opinion, the blocking of these high commodities is precisely how sanctions should be done. If these have little or no effect (which they probably will) then you can always ramp it up to include other things. I think one of the harsher things you could do is just block all traffic two/from North Korea from the United States. I mean, they probably block most of it already so that might not matter but internet access would be another commodity that would certainly upset me if I didn't have access to it.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Lumpy]

here are good sanctions & bad sanctions. An example of bad sanctions were the sanctions the UN imposed against Iraq [globalpolicy.org] that caused a lot of human suffering.

have you tried living with a teenager that did not have her ipod? this causes HUGE amounts of human suffering!

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[grub]

It would be a good idea if it actually worked. They were able to obtain material to make at least one atomic bomb, hardly the type of item you see at Best Buy.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[monoqlith]

It's strange, actually. I heard the body of the new Taepodong II nuclear missile is actually constructed out of refurbished iPods, clock radios, and 5 megapixel Sony cameras straight from Best Buy web site. These sanctions are good! That Kim Jong is just too thrifty!

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[hkgroove]

Until recently, they've been using the shoddy bomb-casing full of used pinball machine parts the Libyan Nationalists gave them.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Fujisawa Sensei]

They should only permit the export of Microsoft Zunes to NK, that'll show him!

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Anonymous Coward]

>> knew people that were saying we were doing horrible things!

Wow. That means you know people with a brain, not lying to themselves.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Thansal]

It would be a good idea if it actually worked. They were able to obtain material to make at least one atomic bomb, hardly the type of item you see at Best Buy.

My thoughts exactly. If I was an enterprising scumbag (with the proper contacts), I would contact Kim and just have him draw up a list of what he wants, buy everything on the list, and resell them for 2-10x the cost. Does the USA check the mail to Johny Kim in N.Korea? if so then just find the country that does not and have someone send em from there.

This does not hurt the dictator.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[mmalove]

There's a lot of truth to this. A big and repeatable point brought to the six party talks is that NK would spend money on weapons that are globally considered useless (attacking a nation with nukes in this day and age is pretty much signing your own death warrant). Meanwhile, people are starving, lack electricity, sanitation, etc. The only people that will be hurt by this are those that are living way above normal economic standards in the country - the hope is that maybe they can spend their wealth feeding the people instead of buying gadgets and toys.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[brouski]

I bow to you, oh master of pop culture references.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Mysticalfruit]

Actually, exporting the Zune to them would be a violation of the Geneva conventions.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Silver Sloth]

Does the USA check the mail to Johny Kim in N.Korea?

Why not - they check everyone else's!

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[inviolet]

This [sanctiong] does not hurt the dictator.

It doesn't have to; he won't change his mind about us because we annoy him. What will get his attention is if the influential North Korean upper-classmen get pissed off at him over his policies.

The lower-class are just ballast. It's the upper-class that wields the most political power because Kim can't function without them and their thousands of separate fiefdoms. If those upper-classmen cease enjoying their lifestyle, then watch for a regime change or even a "popular uprising of the common man".

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[homer_ca]

Also, don't these idiots know that iPods are designed in California but built in China, and China has a land border with NK?

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Anonymous Coward]

Just a couple questions.

How is banning the export of high valued items that people don't need to survive and most can't afford anyway put a pressure on the economy and the dictator? If the sale of military jets to ordinary people are banned, that won't put the pressure on the US economy and the PotUS, will it?

How is not being able to purchase luxury items that most can't afford anyway annoying? People who can afford it are probably the cronies of the dictatorship and therefore should have connections to get those items anyway. If Kim wants some iPods, he can buy a bunch of them during a trip to China. Contrary to the consumerism-centric view of the West, you don't need luxury items to be happy. People were happy long before TV and cars were invented. Besides, NK is heavily censored and propagandized anyway that the public think they are one of the richest country in Asia to feel any envy.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[nosfucious]

He is aware of this. I'm not sure if it was him, or his father, but North Korea has the "miliary-first" policy. The family might be in-bread and nuts, but they have a firm grip on what it takes to maintain power (Well, his dad did anyway).

The masses might be starving, but what little oil, food, electricity, luxuries there are, all go to the military first. They are unlikely to rock the boat until the food actually starts running out, for them.

If any civilisation is three square meals aware from anarchy, i'd North Korea is about as close as they come though. Not sure the iPod will mean much, but every little bit helps.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[eosp]

So? If "the Constitution is just a fucking piece of paper", then what are the Conventions?

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Tom]

What we should decrease is things like automobiles, electronics & other high standard of living commodities.

In other words, you make the only people your enemies who could actually overthrow the dictator you're trying to get rid of - the rich upper-class with ambitions.

Great plan. No surprise you're doing so well in Iraq, you have all these excellent ideas. ;-)

There are no easy solutions. The world is too complicated for that and anything that claims to solve a complicated problem in one paragraph or less fails the snakeoil test.

Read RFC 1925, especially point (8).

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[cashman73]

Too bad the Taepodong II missile still can't do 88 miles per hour,... ;-)

How many gigawatts does it require?

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[vertinox]

What we should decrease is things like automobiles, electronics & other high standard of living commodities. Therefore we make it annoying for the people of North Korea to get by but it isn't possible to point to conditions of people dying due to our sanctions.

Have you studied North Korea or even reviewed the stories of people have went on their friendship tours?

Even those guided tours show that North Korea has in the little of the way of cars and luxuries.

Considering most North Koreans are lucky to have a state locked radio station with electricity (if at all) they aren't going to be making much use of computers or iPods.

The only people who could make use of iPods would be the ruling party and the Military.

Considering their ability to kidnap South Korean citizens, I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem nabbing an iPod or two.

But I agree... Starving North Korea won't solve the problem either since the military has complete control and would only promote needless suffering.

The only way to solve the Korean problem is to actually give North Koreans luxuries and bring them into the western world. You see... Most NK'ers think the rest of the world is like them and is living in poverty (but often much worse conditions).

Most people that are recovered from attempts to escape to China or sent to camps so they can't tell anyone on what they saw (even though the word is getting out).

Remember... We didn't conquer the Soviet Union with sanctions, but rather blue jeans, rock and roll, and McDonalds.

If we give the North Koreans western gadgets they'll start to realize we aren't the psychotic baddies Kim Jong Il makes us out to me.

First they'll need to have proper nutrition, proper electricity, and internet access first...

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[CodeBuster]

Therefore we make it annoying for the people of North Korea to get by but it isn't possible to point to conditions of people dying due to our sanctions.

The North Korean army and the party elites will receive the majority of the food and medical supplies and the people will be no better off than they were before. It is also extremely difficult to ensure that smuggling will not provide the limited quantity of luxury goods required to keep the elites happy, especially when China says that they will inspect cargo, but look the other way when the price is right. You have to remember that the rulers of these communist regimes in China and especially North Korea grew up in a complete moral and ethical vacuum cut off from any concerns for their people insofar as it does not damage them politically. They operate under the golden rule over there but their version is, "He who has the gold makes the rules" and "If you can get away with it there is nothing wrong with it."

Their economy might stagnate and people might die as a result of that but it's not so easy to point the finger at the UN then

Their economy was already stagnated and the people dying even before the sanctions were imposed, although supposedly it is better now than it was in the late 1990s when millions died of starvation.

In my opinion, the blocking of these high commodities is precisely how sanctions should be done.

The sanctioning of luxury goods will not have much effect because it will not be possible to prevent smuggling of enough quantity to satisfy demand among the party elites and the top army brass. It may mean that Kim has only a couple new BMWs and a few cases of cognac instead of a fleet of Cadillac SUVs and all the liquor that he and his cronies can drink. The sanctions preceding the Iraq war didn't prevent Saddam from having his luxury SUVs, gold plated bathroom fixtures, and every other conceivable luxury that he could have possibly wanted.

If these have little or no effect (which they probably will) then you can always ramp it up to include other things.

There is a limit to how much sanctions can be ramped up because China will release supplies to ease the pressure and prevent a flood of refugees from surging across the border. China wants to give North Korea a slap on the wrist to remind their vassal state who butters their bread, but they will not support tough enough measures to collapse the North Korean regime entirely.

I think one of the harsher things you could do is just block all traffic two/from North Korea from the United States.

The only thing that would accomplish would be the enrichment of unscrupulous Chinese middlemen who would be more than willing to smuggle whatever North Korea wants for the right prices. Besides, with the exception of some foreign aid in the form of oil, medicine, and food the North Koreans were not receiving very much directly from the United States anyway and they have almost nothing that is worth anything in trade to a first world economy such as the United States.

I mean, they probably block most of it already so that might not matter but internet access would be another commodity that would certainly upset me if I didn't have access to it.

The North Korean elites probably have connections to Chinese proxies so unless you are going to block China and the rest of Asia altogether you would probably not be able to squeeze them out. As for Kim being upset, well you can always order up some random executions or send some of your political opponents off to the gulag...nothing like abuse of power to brighten your megalomaniac day.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[compro01]

you can't buy it pre-assembled, but you could likely get many of the raw componants, aside from the fissionable materiel and explosives, from most hardware and electronics stores.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Anonymous Coward]

Radioactive material with bomb potential is highly regulated world wide. You can't phone up your local lab supply store and order 100 Kg of it.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Spackler]

Actually, I think it was those commie bastards who designed the Zune!

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Anonymous Coward]

An interesting perspective for sure, and in most cases I'd agree with you 100%. I think with N. Korea though, we face a MUCH more clear and present danger. It's obvious they're testing nuclear weapons, and with their close ties to Iran and Ahmadenijad (SP?), stating that Israel should be wiped off the map and denying the hollocaust ever happened, Kim Jong Ill would likely sell (or even GIVE) these weapons to Iran and possibly even Venezuela and Hugo Chavez, although I doubt he's got the guts to use them. Kim isn't stupid enough to use a nuclear weapon against the United States, but Ahmadenijad believes in creating an "Army of the Madi", a prophesied Islamic army/nation state that will cause millions of people to die, thus hastening the return of their religious figure known as "The Madi", a mighty prophet in Islam. Christians may see this "Madi" as the Antichrist (fairly easy to line that up with prophecy in Revelation, based on how you interpret it).

I think in light of this we should deal with N. Korea a LOT more aggressively. I say completely blockade their entire country, call up the draft, deal directly with Syria and Iran while using the US Navy to and USAF to prevent anything coming in or going out of N. Korea over the Pacific. Sure they'll still trade with China and pressure S. Korea, but only until we can wrap things up in the Middle East.

Make no mistake about it - we're looking at World War 3 here folks. We've got to nip this in the bud.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Gyppo]

He is the Macgyver of insane power hungry dictators.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Vellmont]

What will get his attention is if the influential North Korean upper-classmen get pissed off at him over his policies.

It's a nice theory, but the US banning sales directly to North Korea will likely have zero impact on the 600 or so families ability to get luxury goods. Does the US government think it can really stop the flow of a very small number of common items like this? 600 families isn't a whole lot, and it doesn't take a lot of people working in the black or grey markets to supply them with whatever they need. The only thing you might do is raise the price of this stuff, and encourage growth of the black and grey market a little.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Anonymous Coward]

thats Jigga-watts of the sticato variety 1 point 20 1...

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[null etc.]

As I've posted before, I think this is a good approach.

Are you crazy? If anything, we should flood their markets with consumer goods at super cheap prices, in order to get citizens to see that Kim Jong-il is not the only product of god upon which the light shines. Let the glow of an ipod screen temporarily let a North Korean citizen forget the Kim Jong-il poster hanging in their living room.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Kim Jong Ill]

Fruck you.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Aqualung812]

First they'll need to have proper nutrition, proper electricity, and internet access first...

"Hello, Kim? This is Dubya. We're going to get your backwards pesants some proper care. Please open up the DMZ so we can send 100,000 aid guardsmen in to help with food handouts, infrastructure upgrades, and internet. Peace."

Why hasn't he made that call yet?

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[EveLibertine]

I really don't believe that sanctions will do much of anything until they result in human suffering. I'm pretty much for an all or nothing approach. I don't think I can say anything more than that without coming off as extremely callous.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Main Gauche]

"In other words, you make the only people your enemies who could actually overthrow the dictator you're trying to get rid of - the rich upper-class with ambitions."

Yes, the rich upper class is always the one starting revolutions.

"Great plan. No surprise you're doing so well in Iraq, you have all these excellent ideas. ;-)"

Did you read the post to which you responded? GP was contrasting his idea to the ones used in Iraq. But don't let that get in the way of a chance to make an Iraq crack.

If GP weren't already maxed out, I'd be shoving my karma points his way.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[compro01]

i said aside from.

you can get pretty much everything else you need (the electrical aspect of it. timers, fuses, etc.) from the aforementioned stores.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[sentientbeing]

..you could likely get many of the raw componants, aside from the fissionable materiel and explosives, from most hardware and electronics stores.

Are you still talking about nukes or are we talking about iPod batteries?

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Inoyun]

When you talk about how sanctions are ruining Iraq, do you consider how much money the US has invested into Iraq with AND without the monetary aide of the UN? We are talking billions and billions of dollars thrown into their mix which is far above and over and beyond any possible monetary figure you can come up with or that any other country can even come close to. Not to change the subject to Iraq. The US has thrown more money at that problem in aid and in investments than anyone can argue as well as donating more money and more funds to all other nations that any other nation combined. Kickbacks and all.

Now, with all the money in the world to assist a problem everyone knows about, you would then think that it is the people themselves who do not want to change. This is why we should pull out of Iraq. We will go broke trying to fix something that can't be fixed. Democracy won't flourish without supported sustainable development and Iraq is not about sustainable development. We can't do enough nor will we be able to.

The United States is a generous supporter of key UN programs, funding:

        * 51.4% of the World Food Program budget to help feed 72 million people in 82 countries.*
        * 17.1% of the United Nations Children's Fund budget to feed, vaccinate, educate and protect children in 162 countries.*
        * 14.1% of the United Nations Development Program core budget to eradicate poverty and encourage democratic governance.*
        * 25.8% of the International Atomic Energy Agency budget to ensure safe and peaceful application of nuclear energy and prevent the illicit use of nuclear material for weapons.**
        * 22% of the World Health Organization core budget as well as significant voluntary resources, helping to prevent and control epidemics and to improve standards of health.**
        * 25% of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees budget to help protect refugees and facilitate their return home or re-settlement in another country.*
        * 25% of the International Civil Aviation Organization budget to ensure safe, efficient and economical air travel.**

* These programs operate strictly on voluntary contributions.
** These programs operate on a combination of assessed and voluntary contributions.

Recent increases [in foreign aid] do not tell the whole truth about rich countries' generosity, or the lack of it. Measured as a proportion of gross national income (GNI), aid lags far behind the 0.7 percent target the United Nations set 35 years ago. Moreover, development assistance is often of dubious quality. In many cases,

        * Aid is primarily designed to serve the strategic and economic interests of the donor countries;
        * Or [aid is primarily designed] to benefit powerful domestic interest groups;
        * Aid systems based on the interests of donors instead of the needs of recipients' make development assistance inefficient;
        * Too little aid reaches countries that most desperately need it; and,
        * All too often, aid is wasted on overpriced goods and services from donor countries.

-Flip Flop, Human Suffering causes Human Suffering

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Anonymous Coward]

"quaint".

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean the Pakistanis, not the Libyans. Thank you Mr. A Q Khan for nothing

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[bigred85]

You guys seem to be missing the point. It's not even about the pinball machine parts or the plutonium...it's those damn flux capacitors that make their ICBMs so dangerous.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[crovira]

I'd agree but... how many iPods can Kim Jong Il wear at once? :-)

On the other hand, banning the sale of any and every luxury good, ALL OF THEM, would mean that he'd have to scramble in the same squalor as his people and it would cost us very little in terms of votes.

Ban everything but the sale of foods and medicines and ugly utilitarian vehicles. :-)

That's gonna make a change...

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[KiloByte]

Kim's goons are not exactly teenagers.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Anonymous Coward]

[ whoosh ]

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Fulcrum of Evil]

have you tried living with a teenager that did not have her ipod? this causes HUGE amounts of human suffering!

On the contrary, a suffering teenager is highly entertaining.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Fulcrum of Evil]

Yes, the rich upper class is always the one starting revolutions.

Of course not. It's the middle class - they use the poor to switch places with the rich.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Kagura]

"gigawatt" is actually pronounced "jiggawatt". At least, that was its pronunciation before its term rose into common speech. I'm so informative!

*And that's not to be confused with "Jigga, what?" I'm so clever!

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Anonymous Coward]

have you tried living with a teenager that did not have her ipod? this causes HUGE amounts of human suffering!

Yes, but the law does not look favorably on men of my age living with teenage girls.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Watson Ladd]

Remember... We didn't conquer the Soviet Union with sanctions, but rather blue jeans, rock and roll, and McDonalds.Nope. We outspent them in the arms race. And it didn't help that they depended on us for mission critical software in a natural gas field. Big enough blast to be seen from space when it happened. Basically they fucked up in spending priorities, not giving enough to the solid-state physicists. So they lost in the electronics race.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Bloody Troll]

Sure. Ipods and Segways are some of the basic necessities for 65-year olds.
You Americans are so-oo stupid if you seriously believe that these kind of "sanctions" will render the Party leaders incapable of getting the toys they want. Or maybe you're just a child.

Therefore we make it annoying for the people of North Korea to get by but it isn't possible to point to conditions of people dying due to our sanctions.

Do you seriously believe that inability to buy things worth 5 yearly incomes due to "sanctions" is going to annoy the DPRK people? What a bloody idiot.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Mysticalfruit]

You don't know what the Geneva Conventions are? Go to Wikipedia and search on it.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Spruitje]

The problem with sanctions is that they don't work.
The US can sanction some countries but that doesn't mean that other countries also put sanctions in place.
During the cold war Europe and the US prohibited the export of 32 bits processors to the USSR and East block countries.
Japan did not.
So, if they needed 32 bits processors they bought them in Japan.
To make matters worse : Tesla had a license to make 80486 processors from Intel.
And the Atari ST sold quitte well in Poland during the eighties.
The same goes with Cuba.
Most countries including most EU countries trade with Cuba.
No problem at all.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[spazekaat]

Ahhhhhsss..hooo.... (Attempted translation into English....???)
Preeese be sending Kimme da Sony camerass wiff massfing marvelous explosisif Sony batteries !!
Do pleese enclosse massife exploding golf balls...Kim does like hitting many hole-in-ones since from childhood...

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[cold fjord]

That really depends on the playlist, doesn't it?

Do you think Slim Whitman would effect "Dear Leader" like he did the Martians?

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Tom]

Yes, the rich upper class is always the one starting revolutions.

Like it or not, other comment is almost right. It is either the middle class (if one exists) or the upper class that does. The lower class is used as cannon fodder, but never gets the power promised. Look at any of the famous revolutions in your history books, then read a few pages further and see who ended up on top when the smoke lifted. Usually it's those who were just below the ruling class (I make a difference between ruling and upper-class. If you consider the upper class to be always the ruling class, then you'll arrive at the conclusion of Fulcrum that it's the middle class).

GP was contrasting his idea to the ones used in Iraq.

Yes, on the content level. I apologize for not making it obvious that I moved to one level of abstraction. That should've been clear from the rest of my comment. The point where Iraq and these sanctions are identical is that they're trying to sell you a simple solution for a complicated problem. It won't work, simple as that. Among other things, do you really think the ruler of a country can't get stuff smuggled in? Oh, you've inconvenienced him in major ways, he'll be sooo angry that he'll have to drive (he doesn't fly, he travels in an armoured train) to China to buy his next Mercedes.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[shutdown -p now]

Remember... We didn't conquer the Soviet Union with sanctions, but rather blue jeans, rock and roll, and McDonalds.

Sure you did, but it only happened when Soviet Union got liberal enough to allow its citizens to buy jeans and listen to rock and roll. NK seems to be going in the opposite direction so far.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[compro01]

sanctions do work, if you can get everyone on board or cut trade with anyone who trades with anyone who isn't on board, to whatever level of recusion nessesary.

this is difficult/(impossible?) for obvious reasons, thus sancations typically don't work, as you said.

This will surely fail!

[Kim Jong Il]

This dastardly attempt by the imperialists to stifle us will surely fail, as it always has in the past.

Our revolutionary scientific laborers, working under the glorious revolutionary banner of Juche, are coming up with our own as we speak! Our fervor shall produce better equipment than the American garbage, whether it be electronics, liquor, or food. Indeed, we have always done so, and the stories of us needing to import so called "luxury" goods are imperialist lies to discredit us.

As just one of many examples, it is well known that Great Leader Kim Il Sung, in his secret bunker on Mount Paekdu, singlehandedly created the Internet during the War of Resistance against the Japanese, passing on the specification to American military whose scientists who took credit dastardly for it twenty years later. I post this first post as a trivial testament to our revolutionary ingenuity, illustrating our pre-eminence!

Once again the imperialist dogs will be reminded of the futility of their ill-advised ways!

But strangely

[Anonymous Coward]

The Zune is a go for Lil Kim.

Re:But strangely

[Anonymous Coward]

The Zune is a go for Lil Kim.

As long as he won't squirt at US.

Re:But strangely

[jimstapleton]

well, they are trying to punish him... Makes sense to me.

Re:But strangely

[Hijacked Public]

Our intent is obviously to confound him with the massive scale of the Zune.

He will think to himself, as I did while fumbling with one at B&H Photo, 'this thing must certainly be more than just a 30GB MP3/Video/Photo player given its size'. A 30GB iPod is relatively tiny, so the Zune must contain some kind of secret diabolical mechanical workings, gears and the like, that allow it to perform some task that the iPod cannot, like transform into a small motorbike or something.

Re:But strangely

[freerangegeek]

But won't Microsoft have to change the catch phrase for North Korea? Welcome to the Socialist?

Whew

[general scruff]

Thank goodness they can still get the Zune! Kim needs his Fity Cent!

Re:Whew

[general scruff]

Two Seconds between posts, and I'm redundant??? There should be a -1 Low Bandwidth!

Re:Whew

[sampas]

The gloves come off!

Newsflash

[radiashun]

Segway declares bankruptcy after losing it's stranglehold on the North Korean electric scooter market.

Seriously, why would the ban Segway exports?

Re:Newsflash

[msuzio]

"Because they're the bomb, baby!!!"

Re:Newsflash

[jimstapleton]

it's nothing against Segway, it's against their not-so-benevolent dictator. It's something he wants, so they are banning it.

Re:Newsflash

[antifoidulus]

I dunno, given our own president's record with the devices, maybe we should be giving them more of the things.

Re:Newsflash

[andphi]

Kim Jong Il responds: "I'm So Ronery."

Re:Newsflash

[bareman]

It gives them a reason other than "they're completely lame" for not being able to sell them.

Re:Newsflash

[Donniedarkness]

You make me wish I had mod points.

You made my professor aware that I was surfing the internet, you bastard!

Re:Newsflash

[Anonymous Coward]

i hace never hack a segway, only seen those on tv, but i think that the control system used in the segway might be of interest. May be some sort of electronic acelerometer or position system is inside the segway.
the funny thing is that most of the components can be buy in south korea. :D

Re:Newsflash

[Frozen Void]

They build rockets out of segways and spare bike parts.

Re:Newsflash

[nido]

Seriously, why would the ban Segway exports?

Because Dean Kamen had the audacity to open his manufacturing plant in Bedford, New Hampshire (source)?

Everyone knows that the U.S. Feral Government has been actively encouraging the growth of the trade deficit for decades, in the name of screwing average american workers. Banning the export of the few things that Americans still manufacture (Segways, Harleys, Cadillacs and, apparently, personal watercraft) is yet another way of sticking it to 'the masses'. Apple shouldn't have a problem with selling Kim Jong Il his Ipods, because they can just ship a box over the border from their contract builder in China.

Re:Newsflash

[Frankie70]

Seriously, why would the ban Segway exports?
It's revenge against ,
not against Korea.

Re:Newsflash

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, why would the ban Segway exports?

They hate us for our Segways.

Re:Newsflash

[jimstapleton]

yeah, I suspect the North Korean dictator is smarter than our dictator, just also more insane.

Re:Newsflash

[hey!]

Seriously, why would the ban Segway exports?

If you've read your Dante, you'd know that evil is mostly about having incredibly stupid priorities. Starving the country so you can ride around on a toy is precisely the kind of thing evil people do.

Re:Newsflash

[aplusjimages]

I was shocked to see they weren't already bankrupt. Arrested Development was the only place I saw that thing being used. Talk about getting punched in the face after getting up from a kick in the balls.

Re:Newsflash

[bitt3n]

Seriously, why would the ban Segway exports?

a segway came closer to killing W than any Taepodong ever will.

Re:Newsflash

[ubrgeek]

Is there a mod for "Paranoid"?

Re:Newsflash

[Anonymous Coward]

if there's one thing we've learned about the segway, it's that it appeals to rich, insecure, eccentric aging men; and to somewhat fascist police departments (i.e., boston). so, i'd say it should be selling like hot cakes in NK.

Re:Newsflash

[Anonymous Coward]

Holy crap I spewed diet soda out of my nose for that one! Thanks for the humor this morning.

Re:Newsflash

[derfel]

It's the Digitial Signal Processors which control the Segway. They can provide the computing power that is well-suited for missile guidance systems and other nefarious military devices.

Re:Newsflash

[jrockway]

Now that he can't have a Segway (at a cost of US $3000 or whatever), he won't be evil anymore! The people of North Korea are saved!

Re:Newsflash

[dedalus2000]

yeah but not nearly as close as the pretzel did.

Re:Newsflash

[sharkey]

Because the Segway implements developmental US Military technology.

North Korea is dark

[Southpaw018]

The man drives BMWs and Caddies, rides a Harley, sips fine cognac and drinks good scotch, plays with cameras, and relaxes in air conditioning, and his country looks like this.

I think if I could choose to stab anyone in the world in the face, he'd be a finalist for sure.

Re:North Korea is dark

[Hennell]

Say what you like about North Korea, but the country has a damn good record on light pollution.

Re:North Korea is dark

[UbuntuDupe]

That describes a lot of Americans too, I'm sure, the difference being that they a) aren't in a position of power, and b) you'd have to use a picture of the bad parts of Detroit or Flint instead. And a) isn't as big a difference as you might think, since most ordinary North Koreans really buy into the communism thing just the same.

Re:North Korea is dark

[Mr. Underbridge]

People aren't dying of starvation by the truckload in the "bad" parts of Flint. NK is bad beyond Western comprehension.

Re:North Korea is dark

[YrWrstNtmr]

Say what you like about North Korea, but the country has a damn good record on light pollution.

And Ethiopia has a damn good record on obesity.

Re:North Korea is dark

[UbuntuDupe]

Yeah, I know. I was just being nitpicky. But remember, he didn't say:

"The man drives BMWs and Caddies, rides a Harley, sips fine cognac and drinks good scotch, plays with cameras, and relaxes in air conditioning, and his country suffers mass starvation"

He said:

"The man drives BMWs and Caddies, rides a Harley, sips fine cognac and drinks good scotch, plays with cameras, and relaxes in air conditioning, and his country looks like this" (emphasis added)

Re:North Korea is dark

[Panaflex]

I imagine there's numerous reasons:

• Energy is expensive - China cut all oil exports to NK last month.
  
• North Koreans can't afford to pay the light bill, or they're so expensive they hardly use them.
  
• OMG Spy planes!!!
  
• The ground around the city glows just fine
  
• Kim is the first world leader to understand Al Gore's message!
  
• Soon the night will shine like daylight!! (heh, 007 reference)
  

Re:North Korea is dark

[Anonymous Coward]

He gets to drive BMWs and Caddies, ride a Harley, sip fine cognac and drink good scotch, play with cameras and relax in air conditioning. In exchange, the army doesn't kill him.

Re:North Korea is dark

[Mikachu]

You can't have a serious pollution issue if YOUR PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD CARS.

Re:North Korea is dark

[norpan]

Maybe The Great Leader has taken to astronomy and want a sky unpolluted by man-made light?

Re:North Korea is dark

[Fred_A]

The man drives BMWs and Caddies, rides a Harley, sips fine cognac and drinks good scotch, plays with cameras, and relaxes in air conditioning, and his country looks like this.

That's because he just got into astronomy.

Re:North Korea is dark

[E 99]

as big a difference as you might think, since most ordinary North Koreans really buy into the communism thing just the same.

No, people who are starving to death do NOT typically buy into the ideology of their government. And the propaganda only makes it worse, since the people making it are so clueless as to the lot of the common people. Such as telling about North Korean prisoners in South Korea going on hunger strikes. "Hunger strikes??? There's food in South Korean prisons?????"

Re:North Korea is dark

[unsupported]

Dude, the people of North Korea eat leaves and twigs to survive. They are constantly told that South Korea and the rest of the world are worse off than they are. The only pictures the news shows of North Korea are of the millitary. Old busted ass Russian missile vehicles, the millitary, and Shorty Mc-Il. God forbid the rest of the world actually see the attrocities this mad man is unleashing against his own people.

[soapbox]But don't get me started on why the UN did not do anything when North Korea first uncapped their nuclear reactors. They should never have gotten this far.[/soapbox]

Re:North Korea is dark

[Dion]

Dude! jonny walker is not good scotch, if you need it for anything other than cleaning a gearbox.

Glenmorangie, Highland park, Lagavulin, those are good scotch whiskys.

Re:North Korea is dark

[CohibaVancouver]

They should never have gotten this far

That's bang-on. Read an interesting article the other week (Slate.com, maybe?) that basically said that while Darfur is a travesty, it's Disneyland (with no queues) compared to the concentration camps in North Korea. Yet nothing can be done.

Re:North Korea is dark

[h2g2bob]

You can't have a serious pollution issue if YOUR PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD CARS.

Even if they could afford cars, they wouldn't be able to park them in well-lit places.

Re:North Korea is dark

[Moofie]

Believe me, something can be done. It just takes an administration with courage and resolve, instead of a vendetta.

Re:North Korea is dark

[CohibaVancouver]

Believe me, something can be done

But what? Does America really have the stomach to have tens-of-thousands of their 'boys' (i.e. soldiers) die in an attempt to liberate north korea? And what if that nut-job responds with his supposed nukes? I suspect the only way would be the death of Kim combined with the people having the will to rise up themselves.

Re:North Korea is dark

[Moofie]

The failures in Vietnam and Iraq were not military failures...they were political. The politicians thought they were better warfighters than the warfighters, and they were wrong.

Frankly, I think that the Iraq debacle has ruined the opportunity for the US to be an actual liberator in places like Darfur and North Korea. Those regions are going to have to rely on the UN, which means they're boned.

Re:North Korea is dark

[Kim Jong Ill]

I would like to extend an invitation to you to visit my very very succesful country.

Re:North Korea is dark

[CohibaVancouver]

Those regions are going to have to rely on the UN

The "UN" has no police force. The only way the UN can enforce anything is if the US agrees to go in as the primary backer. A case in Point is Gulf War I. ...and there's no stomach for "American Boys" to die freeing impoverished North Koreans.

Re:North Korea is dark

[Moofie]

Exactly my point. Waiting for the UN is the same thing as approving genocide.

"and there's no stomach for "American Boys" to die freeing impoverished North Koreans."

Stomach was generated for the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. The problem is, the leader who chose the war (especially in Iraq) did so with dishonest means and an ulterior motive. Moral cowardice. (See also FDR's drawing a foul in the Pacific to back himself into the European theater. Same technique, better justification, still cowardly.)

Re:North Korea is dark

[Anonymous Coward]

And Sweden has a damn good record on homosexuality.

Uh, wait. You guys meant it the other way? Damn.

Re:North Korea is dark

[nelsonal]

Even the bad parts of Flint are pretty well lit. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/usanight_dm sp_big.gif

Re:North Korea is dark

[Copid]

There's also a difference between (1) Being well off and being indifferent to the suffering of others and (2) Being well of *because* of the suffering of others and being indifferent to that fact. Neither one is particularly great, but one of them is a lot worse.

Re:North Korea is dark

[CohibaVancouver]

Stomach was generated for the war in Iraq and Afghanistan

Yes, by successfully convincing the American public that the troops were defending American and Americans, and avenging 9/11. There's no effective way of selling the notion of tens-of-thousands of American boys being killed trying to liberate North Koreans from opression.

Re:North Korea is dark

[Moofie]

I think the case could be made, if somebody with the courage of their convictions could make it.

Everybody complains that the US is acting like the world's police force. If we're going to get the rap, we might as well do some good.

Fix Darfur. Fix Bosnia. Fix NoKa. Make it clear to China that their saber rattling about Taiwan can only go so far. Make being a warlord a very, very dangerous occupation.

Call me idealistic, but I think all of those are noble aims, and proper ones for a superpower to undertake.

Talk about effective sanctions

[Salvance]

Woah! North Korea certainly won't be able to progress in their quest for the bomb now that they won't be able to watch the "How to Make a Nuclear Bomb" podcasts anymore! How ridiculous.

Re:Talk about effective sanctions

[halivar]

The sanctions are not directed at NK, it's prople, or its military. It's directed squarely at Kim Jong Il.

Re:Talk about effective sanctions

[Andrewkov]

Does anyone seriously think these sanctions will stop him from getting these products? The guy managed to get nukes, for cryin out loud. I think getting a black market iPod should present little problem to him.

Re:Talk about effective sanctions

[Lostconfused]

Well that might sound good. But honestly, if i was a tyrannical dictator of a country, i wouldn't let some silly export ban stop me. Only few products listed there are produced in America, and knowing the love that corporations have for cheap labor Kim can just buy by straight from the sweat shops in china.

Re:Talk about effective sanctions

[owlnation]

Not to mention no iTunes downloads of "Radioactive" by Gene Simmons.

Re:Talk about effective sanctions

[Bugs42]

I think getting a black market iPod should present little problem to him.Maybe that's the point.
Kim Jong Il: You there! Engineer! Stop that nuclear nonsense and make me an iPod!

Re:Talk about effective sanctions

[markimusk]

I agree. How long does it take to get an ebay acount, ten seconds?

"Me superkimjong88 bid on Ipod!"

silly Americans.

Re:Talk about effective sanctions

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm lets just sit around with our heads up asses and do nothing about that guy.

Watch the Discovery Times channel and their documentaries about the odd guest treatment they get when going through North Korea; gotta love the empty cities full of empty giant buildings and amusement park with roller coasters completely looking new but entirely empty.
8 Lane wide streets with not a single car in sight and only police lined along the roads; the hotel they stay at it gets even better and when they have the secret hidden camera of the kid drinking out of the muddy puddle of water, picking rice grains out of the mud and all the adults walking around as if the kid were not even there.

Re:Talk about effective sanctions

[Andrewkov]

But on the other hand, I wouldn't sell to him with a Zero eBay ratting. :)

Black market, anyone?

[vaderhelmet]

If you were an all powerful dictator of a "rogue" nation... would some BS export ban stop you from getting your plasma screen TV? It's kind of arrogant to think that this will do anything but make a scene about how much good we're doing. As for the wealthy (enough) in N. Korea, they'll continue getting what they want too, or go without and no one will really care. If you think political ideals can be softened or swayed with some of that fine American cognac... then you're sorely mistaken.

Re:Black market, anyone?

[tehcyder]

some of that fine American cognac

Is this a joke?

Re:Black market, anyone?

[DNS-and-BIND]

Nah...actually, the cutoff of Banco Delta really put the hurt on the North Koreans. No money to purchase luxuries for the elite = much much less support for Kim Jong Il. The only way for them to make money is by arms sales, drugs, and counterfeiting U.S. dollars. All of that money came into the country through Banco Delta, and now that it's gone, things are a lot more difficult for the ruling clique.

If you think political ideals can be softened or swayed with some of that fine American cognac... then you're sorely mistaken.

North Korea isn't a political ideal of any kind. It's simply power for power's sake - North Korea is what it would be like if the Mafia (or any other organized crime gang) managed to sieze control of your country. Kim Jong Il bribes a lot of people to keep his regime in power. And the bribes are luxury goods such as iPods and plasma TVs. Think of it - you already have six villas, an army of servants, absolute power of life and death over an entire country - what more could you want? Of course...the latest nifty gadgets that the imperialists have come up with. The elites that are allowed to travel internationally know what's going on outside their countrywide gulag.

Re:Black market, anyone?

[Damastus the WizLiz]

So this is what will happen to America when the RIAA and MPAA take complete control of the country?

Disable the the series of tubes immediately!

[guysmilee]

Disable the the series of tubes immediately! :-)

North Korea is missing something...

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, this is just for our benefit. Why do I say that, you ask? Look:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/image s/dprk-dmsp-dark-old.jpg

North Korea is DARK. Other than their dictatorial leadership, they have no electricity to power fancy toys.

Re:North Korea is missing something...

[Wooloomooloo]

The sanctions are aimed specifically at Kim Jong-il and the people around him that are actually able to afford those products.

Re:North Korea is missing something...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey fellow AC, please, no more surreptitious attempts to inject reality into this discussion. The fact that the NK populace would be happier to have a $10, 50 kg bag of rice than Apple&'s latest tech fashion only throws sand into a smoothly running illusion. Please stick to Iraq comparisons and the usual Left/Right puppet show shenanigans.

In context

[Anonymous Coward]

We'll let you import/export missile technology, but iPods...c'mon Kimmy be real, we've gotta draw a line in the sand somewhere.

Maybe...

[Kadin2048]

...they're just turning off all the lights in order to capitalize on the vast demand for meteorological tourism?

"North Korea: No Electricity Means No Light Pollution!"

Oh no!

[Duncan3]

What exactly do you do with an iPod in a country with almost no electricity and no internet?

That list of items is really gonna hurt, if you can't have HDTV in your hut with no clean water and not enough food, life just isn't worth living.

Re:Oh no!

[jenik]

the people at the top have plenty of both...but I agree that they can get whatever they want no matter what the US say, such restrictions won't hurt them.

In other news

[Timesprout]

Kimdude has set a new high for monthly purchases on ebay.

Re:In other news

[cold fjord]

Buying is easy, shipping is not.

That is, unless they plan to smuggle the goods into North Korea through the invasion tunnels they dug into South Korea.

80's Reference

[abaddononion]

Do you think they're concerned that there's a North Korean Macgyver, taking IPods, Segway Scooters, and Plasma TVs and using them to create Satellites capable of launching laser strikes from space? Or at least something that'll explode violently. Man. Imagine what Macgyver could have done back in the 80s if he had just carried 1 ipod with him at all times.

Re:80's Reference

[goddidit]

Yes, they have clearly kidnapped Richard Dean Anderson.

"Your weapons are useress against this goa'urd technorogy"
--Kim Jong Il

money

[TheSHAD0W]

I think the more money North Koreans spend on iPods, plasma televisions and Segways, the less they have to spend on nuclear weapons.

Re:money

[Anonymous Coward]

The higher elites will still get them but it'll be more expensive (smuggling costs added). But then again it could be another thing the rich use to separate themselves as superior. I do not see value in these sanctions. I think that since the rich would have gotten these stuff for their kids .. their kids may grow up realizing humanist values present in many of our movies (dont laugh, at least it will expose them to things other than NK brainwashing). Maybe then when they grow up they will change what their government does.

To paraphrase Reagan: to compete with us, they will have to educate themselves, and when they do this they won't be a threat.

Effective Sanctions

[Kadin2048]

It's directed squarely at Kim Jong Il.

They probably should have put a sanction on exports of Brylcreem and hair gel, in that case.

Urgent Call

[Billosaur]

At Apple HQ:

Secretary: Mr. Jobs, there's a call for you from North Korea... a Mr. Kim... says he's having trouble getting an iPod and wants to know if you can help.

Kim Jong-il's Wish List

[MasterC]

Kim prefers Mercedes, BMW and Cadillac cars; Japanese and Harley Davidson motorcycles; Hennessy XO cognac from France and Johnny Walker Scotch whisky; Sony cameras and Japanese air conditioners.

Kudos to the poster for providing Kim's "holiday" wish list. But, what? No PS3, Xbox 360, or Wii? I guess who needs a video game console when you have a whole country to play with.

Seriously, I like doubled my knowledge about Kim by reading that list.

The list

[Rik Sweeney]

This list includes [...] and Segway electric scooters

Those bastards!

Preload them with Bon Jovi.

[Kadin2048]

I think the more money North Koreans spend on iPods, plasma televisions and Segways, the less they have to spend on nuclear weapons.

Actually, I'd vote that we export only iPods to North Korea. (I'd say only Zunes, but I feel like that's probably a crime against humanity.)

Take THAT!

[Odin_Tiger]

That'll show 'em...suckers....

What about catfish?

[Shadow Wrought]

Huge man eating catfish?

They shouldn't ban IPods *evil grin*

[davidwr]

They should just get Apple to make them all play a few bars of The Star-Spangled Banner before each song :).

Ain't I a stinker :)

Re:They shouldn't ban IPods *evil grin*

[dhasenan]

That's inhumane by any standards.

Kudos!

[fernandoh26]

Kudos on the Zune poop squirt reference!

We banned plasma TVs?

[qazwart]

Um...

Does the U.S. even make plasma TVs?

While we're at it, why not ban quantum based time machine portals?

Re:We banned plasma TVs?

[Anonymous Coward]

While we're at it, why not ban quantum based time machine portals?

Shhh! What happens in Cheyenne mountain, stays in Cheyenne mountain.

Re:We banned plasma TVs?

[evilhanz]

You can have my quantum based time machine portal when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

Re:We banned plasma TVs?

[powerlord]

You can have my quantum based time machine portal when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

No ... no ... no ... its

"You can have my quantum based time machine when you pry it from my pet cyborg-velociraptor's cold, dead, laser talons." :)

Re:We banned plasma TVs?

[Spooon69]

Good god, only on Slashdot will you find name nazis. Over here it's GNU/Linux and not Linux, it's a portable hardware audio decompresser and not an iPod, and it's a quantum based time machine portal and not an Interoceter.

Re:We banned plasma TVs?

[TACNailed]

That would be pointless. They'll just use other types of hard drive technology.

Re:We banned plasma TVs?

[sharkey]

While we're at it, why not ban quantum based time machine portals?

Just so long as DeLorean based time machines are still available.

silly

[dredson]

All of these products except the lame segway(who's buying these things?) are produced over-seas anyway. And who wants to buy american cars? It is mostly Japanese, South Korean and German cars that are considered the best bang for the buck.

Re:silly

[Anonymous Coward]

You think the japanese are going to go against this ban? They probably pushed for it

Re:silly

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Sony laptops are considered the best "bang" for the buck.

In other news

[TheStonepedo]

There was a massive nerd-rush for the following products after an effective slashvertisement:
Mercedes', BMWs and Cadillacs; Japanese and Harley Davidson motorcycles; Hennessy XO and Johnny Walker.
When asked for a comment, one nerd replied, "I had no idea there were products other than iPods and Segways. Mr. Kim has really opened my eyes to the new world of non-computing-related consumerism."

No surprise

[redelm]

N.Korea is no longer a Generally Embargoed Country (currently Cuba, Iran, Sudan) but is highly restricted like Syria. The US has always restricted exports starting with pine logs in 1782 to avoid helping the Royal Navy. See the BIS website.

OT but...

[The Nipponese]

Mercedes, BMW and Cadillac cars; Japanese and Harley Davidson motorcycles; Hennessy XO cognac from France and Johnny Walker Scotch whisky; Sony cameras and Japanese air conditioners."Who knew KJI was so ghettofab'. I live down the street from a project full of people who are 'suppose' to be cut off from all the same luxury items, yet they always seem to be to have them.

Re:OT but...

[AcidLacedPenguiN]

that's because you live only a few city blocks away from a privileged neighborhood who always seem to be missing their luxury items. . .

Re:OT but...

[The Nipponese]

Actually, I'm pretty the Caddy down the street was paid for by selling even more illicit luxury items to those privileged neighborhoods.

Mod parent up:

[Anonymous Coward]

+1 (Back to the Future Reference)

Re:Mod parent up:

[aplusjimages]

Great Scott! AC is right.

Re:Mod parent up:

[Anonymous Coward]

Shouldn't that be a mod down for making a BTTF reference?

IPod for Nukes

[Anonymous Coward]

The US plans to use the ban to gain leverage on North Korea in an effort to get them on the UN IPod for Nukes program.

very good idea

[houghi]

That way people can't use the songs they bought online over the Internet.

Re:very good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Fortunately, they can still use the songs they bought online over the counter, as well as the songs they bought offline over the internet.

I will be a soldier of Marshall Kim Jong Il

[Anonymous Coward]

This is crazy. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7020315941 569660600

Workers' Paradises

[Doc Ruby]

When the Republican Congress gave "fast track" authority to Clinton so he could make "Communist" China a "Most Favored Nation" trading partner, those staunch "anticommunists" claimed that China would become dependent on the US market, increasing our political power to force them to make changes. Economics, human rights, security - all would gain American influence, while we got cheap products and they got money to develop into a freer country that didn't threaten us or the world as much.

North Korea is totally dependent on its connection to Chinese economy. Since we supposedly gained that influence over China, N Korea has become a nuclear terrorist. What has handing unfair access to our markets to China (which still protects its markets from us) delivered on its promise? Other than control over us, both economically and in security threats from their rogue Communist partner next door?

Re:Workers' Paradises

[mfrank]

The US wants regime change. China wants to not have to deal with millions of starving, mentally stunted North Korean refugees. Those are mutually incompatible goals. China would have no problem going with the plan if the goal were to improve and open North Korea's economy (which would improve the lives of its people) and not regime change, which would almost certainly cause a humanitarian disaster on a mind-numbing scale. And BTW, the US stated goal of regime change is a major factor in why Iran and NK are doubling down on their efforts to get the bomb.

Re:Workers' Paradises

[Doc Ruby]

All those countries are looking to have the "because we've got the big bombs" basis for geopolitical action that is almost all the US has left after Bush's foreign policies. And Bush is looking for any scary enemy with missiles to justify his Star Wars missile defense project, to squeeze even more $TRILLIONS out of the US and the world. China would love to have a nuclear ally preoccupying the US, driving up our national debt that they own, and rationalizing their own militarization of space.

The "US" people want regime change. The US Republican government, which has sold our debt to China while sending our manufacturing power there, most certainly does not want anything rocking the boat that's keeping them, and their bribers, rich.

Re:Workers' Paradises

[Doc Ruby]

Moderation -1
    100% Flamebait

TrollMods can't argue with that analysis, because it's all valid and true. So they anonymously try to suppress the truth. Your basic "Communists" at work.

A better idea...

[E 99]

Instead of banning them outright, since only Kim himself gets the luxories, why not let them import segways, but remove the speed limiting electronics. Assasination by runaway segway. We'll also need to allow them to import camcorders, so that there a chance for them to get the event on videotape.

interesting movie choices...

[iamhassi]

from the article:
"He also is said to own an extensive movie library of more than 10,000 titles and prefers films about James Bond and Godzilla, along with Clint Eastwood's 1993 drama, "In the Line of Fire," and Whitney Houston's 1992 love story, "The Bodyguard.""

Interesting movie choices: both movies where a bodyguard puts himself in front of a bullet to save the person they're guarding. Do you think Kim Jong Il dreams of his own Client Eastwood or Kevin Costner to guard him?

Re:interesting movie choices...

[rthille]

Or is his liking for 'In the Line of Fire' related to a desire to see the President of the United States be shot?

In Soviet Russia...

[DoofusOfDeath]

OK, this actually isn't a joke post, despite the subject line...

Many people who grew up in the Soviet Union in the 70's and 80's attribute the influence of bootleg copies of Western rock music to the eventual opening up of the Soviet Union. It seems to me that iPods could potentially have a similar role, and we're cutting that off.

Shouldn't we be flooding N.K. with as much cheap communications / recording equipment as possible?

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[LordEd]

And now for the joke.

In Soviet Russia, iPod bans you!

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[scheming daemons]

OK, this actually isn't a joke post, despite the subject line...

Many people who grew up in the Soviet Union in the 70's and 80's attribute the influence of bootleg copies of Western rock music to the eventual opening up of the Soviet Union. It seems to me that iPods could potentially have a similar role, and we're cutting that off.

Shouldn't we be flooding N.K. with as much cheap communications / recording equipment as possible?

One big difference... Western rock music in the 70s and 80s was good. Today's music sucks. We're doing them a favor by restricting their access to it.

What about China?

[LighterShadeOfBlack]

It's all well and good blocking this stuff being exported from the U.S. and the EU to North Korea, but there are plenty of other countries from which they can import the same basic stuff. The real test is whether China will impose trade sanctions and, more importantly, enforce them. Right now it's all well and good saying NK can't get all this stuff from America or Europe but then it's not such a big deal when China's right next door selling their own brand of knock-offs cheaper and just as good.

Of course China doesn't want North Korea to develop nuclear weapons, probably more so than any western nation, so maybe they will enforce trade sanctions. Maybe.

Intelligence officials also report...

[strokemouth]

...Billy likes to drink soda. Miss Lippy's car...is green!

Your tax dollars paid for this list

[McGregorMortis]

The likelihood that Kim Jong Il be even momentarily inconvenienced by this is negligible. The project is a failure before it's even started.

Probably not a lot of money spent, just the salaries of a bunch of high-ranking national security people for a few months. Nothing compared to the costs of an Iraq war or anything, but still... couldn't they find something more useful to do than waste their time on this useless masturbatory fantasy?

If the intention was to make Kim Jong Il fall over and die laughing at those whacky American imperialists, then maybe it would have a slim chance of success.

Open the darn border already.

[b0s0z0ku]

I'm not kidding. What would happen if South Korea just stood down across the DMZ and said "come on over if you really want to..."? I'd suspect that North Korean troops will find out how awful capitalism really is and will have ol' Kimmie Boy in front of a firing squad within half a year. North Korean fascism won't be able to last if even 10% of their population knew what lay beyond their borders!

-b.

BTW- that's why Soviet troops returning from the front after WW II often went straight to Siberia. They simply knew too much about how good the conditions were outside the Soviet Empire (this despite the fact that Germany and Poland were war-torn mudholes).

Re:Open the darn border already.

[808140]

You're on crack. It is true that Stalin sent a lot of people coming back from the Great Patriotic War to the gulag, but most of them were generals, war heroes, and similar. The reasoning was not because life was "so good" in the West, but rather because these people had possibly had contact with rightist and or imperialist elements in Western Europe (not quality of life, but other people) and because their hero status conferred a great deal of credit upon them in the eyes of the Russian people, it was feared that their ability to do damage as spies or their ability to influence the government would be unduly large. Not that I'm condoning this, mind you.

But to say that they were afraid of people in the East seeing "how good" life in the West was at that time is pure cold war propaganda. The West had just come out of the great depression, which at the time was believed (by western economists) to be a result of the inherent instability of markets. A great deal of thought was put into how to prevent that sort of thing -- Keynes made his name doing just that. The one nation that was essentially unaffected by the Great Depression was the Soviet Union -- their economic growth (which was huge under Stalin) chugged along just fine, and most Soviet leaders and economists believed that it was only a matter of time before the West fell back into another great depression. They were wrong, but they didn't know it. Incidentally, much of the "New Deal" (which is largely credited with the creation of the middle class in the US) was consciously modeled on the Soviet social model, precisely because they seemed to be immune to economic depression.

Any Soviet soldier in Eastern Europe (the British and the Americans met them in Berlin, lest we forget) would have seen mostly undeveloped, war torn nations filled with masses of refugees, along with the aftermath of the Holocaust. Life in the Soviet Union was not good under Stalin, to be sure, but what little of war torn Europe they were exposed to was not enough to make most of them doubt the rightness of the propaganda they'd been exposed to. And let's not forget, either, that most of the Europe the Russians were exposed to they annexed.

The rest of your post I agree with entirely.

Re:Open the darn border already.

[b0s0z0ku]

But to say that they were afraid of people in the East seeing "how good" life in the West was at that time is pure cold war propaganda. The West had just come out of the great depression, which at the time was believed (by western economists) to be a result of the inherent instability of markets.

Do not confuse the Soviet lifestyle of the 1930s/1940s of the larger cities and towns with the lifestyle of the rural peoples. The rural people's lifestyle really hadn't changed that much since the time of the tsars - and like the serfs pre-1860, they were tied to the land - the only difference was that they were working for the state on a kolkhoz not for a manor lord.

Many of the soldiers came from such a background and were positively shocked at the abundance that they found in the Poland of the late 30s. Remember that the Russo-German hostilities didn't begin until 1941 - the Russian army marched into eastern Poland without as much opposition as one would expect since some thought that they were coming as allies to fight the Germans. So they got quite a few "undamaged" towns and cities. And promptly started looting them and taking everything that could be moved.

My grandparents *were* there in 1939 and my grandmother remembers Russian farmboy soldiers being positively fascinated with Western-made clocks and watches because they simply hadn't seen things like that before!

It is true that Stalin sent a lot of people coming back from the Great Patriotic War to the gulag, but most of them were generals, war heroes, and similar.

Now you're the one on crack! A lot of common soldiers got sent to the camps or forcibly relocated to settle Siberia. Remember, this is several *millions* people that we're talking about, so they couldn't have all been generals and notable figures. The camps were considered a key part of Soviet industry and they needed new meat to feed into the grinder.

-b.

Re:Open the darn border already.

[bmajik]

I'm not Korean (or even of asian descent) but my understanding is that there is a lot of bitterness and difference to overcome. IOW, I don't think what you suggest is "that simple".

For instance, it is not necessarily a foregone conclusion that those in NK would prefer the SK lifestyle. The best preserved examples of traditional "Korean" (North Korea vs South Korea is a political thing, not something with any historical or cultural basis) culture like architecture, are all in North Korea. Many in the North (and more so in the South) lament the westernization of South Korea.

A few generations have grown up in the closed world of NK. Overcoming what they've been taught their entire life will be difficult. While it is difficult for Americans to get inside NK, plenty of Chinese/Japanese other tourists visit NK frequently. There was a message board thread i saw that had tourist photos of NK.. some authorized.. some not. Yes, foreigners get a government escort when they're visiting, and soldiers tell you what you can and cannot take pictures of.. but things obviously fall through the cracks. I think at least some of the NK soldiers _do_ have a sense of the western lifestyle and economy. They're still in the NK army _anyway_.

Consider how bloody the US civil war was, and how much closer the North and South in the US were than the 50 years of isolation that has transpired on the korean peninsula.

Your english is too good. So, I translated it. :)

[Anonymous Coward]

This dastardry attempt by the imperiarists to stifre us rirr surely fair, as it arrays has in the past.

Our revorutionary scientific raborers, rorking under the grorious revorutionary banner of Juche, are coming up rith our orn as re speak! Our fervor sharr produce better equipment than the American garbage, rhether it be erectronics, riquor, or food. Indeed, re have awrays done so, and the stories of us needing to import so carred "ruxury" goods are imperiarist ries to discredit us.

As just one of many exampres, it is rerr known that Great Reader Kim Il Sung, in his secret bunker on Mount Paekdu, singrehandedry created the Internet during the rar of Resistance against the Japanese, passing on the specification to American miritary rhose scientists rho took credit dastardry for it trenty years rater. I post this first post as a triviar testament to our revorutionary ingenuity, irrustrating our pre-eminence!

Once again the imperiarist dogs rirr be reminded of the futirity of their irr-advised rays!

It may sound sirry...

[merc]

but not rirry!

Re:It may sound sirry...

[Anonymous Coward]

MATT DAMON!!!

Think about who gets punished by sanctions

[mrb000gus]

Leader from country A has argument with leader from country B.
All the people from country B get punished by having their toys taken away.
Leader from country B doesn't care.

The only consequence is that country B's inhabitants are pissed off, because some argument their country's leader had with another country's leader, led to their toys getting confiscated.

Re:Think about who gets punished by sanctions

[LighterShadeOfBlack]

"The only consequence is that country B's inhabitants are pissed off, because some argument their country's leader had with another country's leader, led to their toys getting confiscated."

That's exactly the point. Country B's inhabitants get pissed off, and knowing that they wouldn't be in this situation if it weren't for leader B, leader B loses support and either gives in to country A's demands or is eventually overthrown by his own pissed off people.

Exactly

[NineNine]

You're exactly right. This is pointless. If N. Korea could get all of the parts and assemble their own nuclear weapons, somehow I doubt that they're going to have trouble getting their plasma TV's.

Well, it's better than invading, but . . .

[yourpusher]

Seriously, does ANYONE think this will actually stop him from having any of those things? All you do is send someone out to buy those things privately (which any of thousands of dealers will be happy to sell to), and he brings them back. What, is North Korean Customs going to stop them at the border?

Eesh.

*scolding tone*

[OfficialReverendStev]

And you can have your toys back once you put up the nuclear* missiles.


*Pronounced nuke-yuh-ler

They'll just buy a tiny Archos Gmini (and save $$)

[Anonymous Coward]

Noth Koreans will simply buy a tiny 20GM Archos Gmini, which is actually better AND cheaper than Ipod.

Also, Archos works with GNU/Linux right out of the box, just drag-and-drop, no additional software required.

Hennessy XO and Johnny Walker

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup, only one kind of alcohol is allowed in (and talk about a real "weapon of mass destruction").

North American-made consumer electronics?

[Cyburbia]

There are MP3 players and plasma televisions made in the United States?

How do they get this information?

[Bromskloss]

Satellites? (Can they see the bottles?) American officials visiting North Korea? (Are there even any?) Leaking North Korean officials? Uncercover agents? Guessing? (Who can check, anyway? Hehe.) Comparing with their own leader? (Because they are so similar in everything else.. eh.. ;-))

Do the exact opposite, instead

[Cinnamon Whirl]

Why not flood the country with cheap american, european, chinese - whatever - imports. You need to establish a cultural hegemony over Kim's personality cult. His own people - and by extension, his army - should eventually realise the differences between us and them. They need to throw him out for us. If Iraq proved one thing to us, it should be the old adage (I think its one of Mao's, though it may be that it stems from before then): "Revolution can neither be imported nor exported" Careful support of one of his more corrupt Generals (if we can find them) could lead to a coup - and whoever is left in charge will be significantly weaker to begin with. Apply pressure on them to conform, and we may see a lessoning of hostilities, and opening of borders. After that, time - and capitalism - will take its toll. Not a great strategy, perhaps - but it cant be much worse than blocking segway imports...

Bombs, sanctions, wars.

[Angelwrath]

This is a sheer, utter joke.

The defense complex gives us video of how precise their "precision bombs" are. "Precision bomb" is an oxymoron. A bomb, by definition, is designed for area effect. No matter how much precision is applied to a bomb, the one thing it cannot do is eliminate all risk to those not targeted by the humans dropping the bombs.

Sanctions are exactly the same. No matter what the sanctions, innocent people will get screwed over.

And it is the same with war, with North Korea, with Iraq, with every single sanction and conflict, public or undisclosed, that has ever existed in the world - there are always unintended casualties.

Think of it - US sanctions to target ONE person. This is the precision-guided bomb in trade form. You can dream and laugh about "putting Kim Jong Il on a diet" all you want; you are living in ignorant bliss if you find that amusing, because the reality is that the significant, unpalatable dark side of this, which you will never see covered by an intimidated, kowtow-ing media, is innocent people and families paying dearly for the sanctions that, we are told, will target the wealthiest, most connected man in North Korea. How long will sanctions last when North Korea threatens to sell nuclear secrets (along with a picture of a PS3) on eBay?

What's more, the benefits of sanctions on North Korea are being sold to us by the same US administration that sold us on going after Saddam and his WMDs. It fooled us then, and I see it fooling far too many people now.

Time to coin a new term: American Alzheimer's Disease - the disease that afflicts the memory of a large number of American citizens, causing them to forget the lies of their public officials such that, after an expensive, expansive PR campaign, citizens simply lose all memory of past lies, and let the same men commit the same crimes all over again.

Re:Bombs, sanctions, wars.

[jratcliffe]

Huh? Honestly, I really don't understand your point here. Exactly which of these sanctions will in any way affect "innocent people and families" in North Korea? This isn't Singapore we're talking about here - getting three squares a day and having a TV (that's hardwired to receive only the one state-run TV channel) make you a rich man. Heck, denial of any of these items wouldn't even be a true "hardship" for any family in the US (annoying/disappointing, yes, but not a true hardship).

Re:Bombs, sanctions, wars.

[Angelwrath]

My point is - Kim Jong Il is almost certainly the richest man in North Korea. Do you honestly expect that he won't be able to get whatever he wants regardless of what sanctions do?

And my follow-on point is - if these sanctions won't affect Kim Jong Il, who will they affect? Innocent people, that's who.

Sanctions do not work on the most powerful people in a country, because those people have power and money and have access to the black market. I'll give an example - Cuban products are sanctioned by the US government. But did you also know that some of the largest purchases of Cuban cigars from Canadian companies are by people in Langley, VA? And by large purchases, I mean hundreds of cigars. Well beyond what any one person, or group of friends, could possibly smoke. (Canadians can import Cuban products)

That is what I am trying to say - you cannot stop powerful people from getting what they want through sanctions. Sanctions against North Korea will only affect innocent people.

Re:Bombs, sanctions, wars.

[jratcliffe]

Anyone in North Korea who can afford iPods and cognac is a high-ranking member of the regime, and hence far, far from "innocent." You seem to have this idea that these sanctions will affect thousands of middle managers or low-ranking military officers - they won't. They'll just affect a few hundred people at the very top of probably the most vicious totalitarian dictatorship on the planet. Objecting to these sanctions because they'll affect a few people beyond Kim Jong Il is like objecting to sanctions on Nazi Germany because they'd affect Goering and Himmler, not just Hitler. And yes, I've read Godwin's law, but if there's anyplace where comparison to the Nazis is apt, it's North Korea (and perhaps Pol Pot's Cambodia).

Too bad Knock Off Tech makes

[future assassin]

sanctions an itch in the ass instead of a case of hemorhoids. http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/26/183523 5

This is a joke, right?

[Master of Transhuman]

Like people starving in North Korea - or Kim, for that matter - are going to be pressured into doing anything because they can't buy an iPod (which of course will be instantly smuggled in anyway from China or via the business connections the North has with the South if anybody really wants one.)

This is what passes for "spreading democracy" in the Bush administration.

It's moronic beyond words.

Re:This is a joke, right?

[Anonymous Coward]

We are open for suggestions.

Re:This is a joke, right?

[Nimey]

It's aimed at the NK elite, dumbass. Piss them off and maybe they'll be open to a palace coup.

Re:This is a joke, right?

[scheming daemons]

It's aimed at the NK elite, dumbass. Piss them off and maybe they'll be open to a palace coup.

You're right.... years of starvation and poverty had no effect on them, but take away their access to iPods and they'll break out the guillotines!

Re:This is a joke, right?

[Vellmont]

It's aimed at the NK elite, dumbass. Piss them off and maybe they'll be open to a palace coup

See above where the poster talks about "smuggling" in this stuff from another country. You could probbably have an effect on getting a few million of anything. It's going to be about impossible to stop the flow of a few hundred or a thousand iPods or Plasma TVs into NK.

Re:This is a joke, right?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you miss the word "elite"?

Re:This is a joke, right?

[Master of Transhuman]

The NK "elite" can get whatever they need regardless of stupid sanctions.

That's WHY they are the "elite". Did you miss that?

And who says they'll be any more open to throwing away their nuclear weapons than Kim even if they DID overthrow him? You compare nukes to iPods? I'd much rather have a nuke than an iPod - especially if I know Bush wants MY ass overthrown along with Kim's.

"Dumbass"...

ENGLISH PEOPLE!

[spacemky]

North Koreans can't read English anyways! Sheesh!

Republicans in the dark

[Delirium Tremens]

No need to look that far abroad. It is the same situation in the USA.
Look at this map with regards to the last presidential election results...

Kim-on-a-segway-would-be-cute

[easter1916]

Kim in a coffin would be cute, Taco. He's a fucking megalomaniac.

Re:Kim-on-a-segway-would-be-cute

[geekoid]

But he dresses like a carzy bond villian! how cool is that?

American-made electronics? Sure

[Man in Spandex]

I know a genuine Panaphonics when I see it. And look, there's Magnetbox and Sorny.

- Homer Simpson

my queswtion is....

[Yonsen]

How on Earth does a North Korean citizen AFFORD an iPod? They Barely get by as it is! (assuming its not just to block Kim's personal collection)

Ipods?!

[MrIbanez]

Maybe IPods might become the cuban cigars of North Korea...

Worse than that

[rlp]

I heard that they canceled Kim's ITunes account. Now thats cold.

You can't leave till you eat all your peas!

[Driving Vertigo]

"Kim prefers Mercedes, BMW and Cadillac cars; Japanese and Harley Davidson motorcycles; Hennessy XO cognac from France and Johnny Walker Scotch whisky; Sony cameras and Japanese air conditioners."

None of which are either iPods, plasma televisions or Segway electric scooters. Should we ban exportation of brocolli and brussel sprouts as well?

Kim is a bad guy but

[Nicolas MONNET]

How many countries has North Korea invaded or attacked in the past 60 years? Zero.

How many countries has the US invaded / attacked / destabilized in the past 60 years? VALUE OUT OF BOUND ERROR.

Re:Kim is a bad guy but

[Saffaya]

Let's See ..
2006-60 = 1946

I think your forgot something .. what was it called already ? ..
ah ! yes. The Korean War. Maybe you should consult the wikipedia entry about it.

And yes, the US did a lot of bad things (chile, Iran's shah, etc ...) but you can't chose to turn a blind eye on only one of the belligerents.

Re:Kim is a bad guy but

[jzarling]

Actually 1 - 56 years ago North Korea invaded South Korea.

Re:Let's get this straight: the black market

[Perseid]

Yes, the North Korean middle class will be hit hard by this and I assume they'll both be pretty pissed.

Batteries....

[DanielG42]

Apparently, the lithium polymer batteries in ipods make excellent explosives.

so many choices

[Anonymous Coward]

"U.S. intelligence officials who helped produce the Bush administration's list said Kim prefers Mercedes, BMW and Cadillac cars; Japanese and Harley Davidson motorcycles; Hennessy XO cognac from France and Johnny Walker Scotch whisky; Sony cameras and Japanese air conditioners."

That's all good and all but on to the more important questions like.....which browser does he use? And boxers or briefs?

The next Apple ad will be...

[sprior]

This is the same situation Apple was in when their G(something) was declared a limited export and apple ran the ad with a Mac surrounded by a bunch of tanks (which is my FAVORITE Apple ad of all time) with the last line being "Pentium PC's... Well, they're harmless". I'd be surprised if I didn't see a new ad now, "We can't let iPods fall into the wrong hands, but Zune's are OK..."

Correct me if I'm wrong...

[Vr6dub]

I just read your link about the trade deficit. It seems to imply that the problem with our trade deficit lies solely with the countries we trade with. They're the ones imposing the VAT on goods going in and out of their country. Why is that our fault? What is Buchanan's fix? An "equalizing fee"? Two wrongs make a right now? Sounds dumb to me. My opinion is, it's all cyclical. By offering me cheap imported goods it gives me more buying power for stuff that IS beneficial to the United States. I have more money to go out to eat, go to the movies, buy a nice new TV from my LOCAL electronics store, or pay my neigbor kid $20 to mow my lawn so he can go spend money at the movies, etc.

Finally, I highly doubt that banning exports of these items to NK is really going to hurt any of these industries. How many people in NK even know what a Segway is or a Harley for that matter? Hey look! The sky is falling!!!

Re:Correct me if I'm wrong...

[nido]

Buchanan's point is simply that countries with a Value Added Tax are subsidizing their domestic manufacturing industry, whereas the U.S. Feral Government policy has been subsidizing foreign manufacturers. The primary effect of "Free Trade" has been to screw the U.S. manufacturing industry.

From an earlier Buchanan piece:

Free trade does to a nation what alcohol does to a man: saps him first of his vitality, then his energy, then his independence, then his life.

America today exhibits the symptoms of a nation passing into late middle age. We spend more than we earn. We consume more than we produce.

Why does it matter where our goods are produced? Because, as I wrote in The Great Betrayal:

Manufacturing is the key to national power. Not only does it pay more than service industries, the rates of productivity growth are higher and the potential of new industries arising is far greater. From radio came television, VCRs, and flat-panel screens. From adding machines came calculators and computers. From the electric typewriter came the word processors. Research and development follow manufacturing.

Alexander Hamilton, the architect of the U.S. economy, knew this. He had served in the Revolution as aide to Washington and lived through the British blockades. He had led the bayonet charge at Yorktown. And he had resolved that never again would his country's survival depend upon French muskets or French ships. ...

-Death of Manufacturing

There are many other writers critical of globalization; I linked to Buchanan's piece because I had it in my bookmarks. Probably should have linked to the earlier piece too, as it goes on to discuss the early use of protective tariffs (which aren't mentioned in the Vdare link).

I have more money to go out to eat, go to the movies, buy a nice new TV from my LOCAL electronics store, or pay my neigbor kid $20 to mow my lawn so he can go spend money at the movies, etc.

Only because your job wasn't offshored, and only until the cascading system failure hits your job too.

Re:Correct me if I'm wrong...

[Vr6dub]

Nah, my job will never be offshored. I work in IT. ;-)

Re:Correct me if I'm wrong...

[nido]

You're missing the point. See Paul Craig Roberts' Who Owns The Dollar? for another perspective.

WoW that's totally harsh

[greymond]

I know I was thinking of starting my own nuclear weapons program here in my basement, but shit, if I won't be able to buy a new plasma tv next year then fuck this shit, it's so not worth it.

Re:WoW that's totally harsh

[L7_]

WoW : World of Warcraft

I thought to myself when reading your reply that it would be alot worse if the US banned N. Korean World of Warcraft accounts. There would be HELL TO PAY for middle class and upper class gamers (I am not sure if the majority of lower class citizens can afford WoW as it is priced in N.Kor). I know that there are Lineage and Lineage 2 as well as a plethora of other Korean based MMO's, but aren't those South Korean?

If we extended the embargo to *all* entertainment that the US can control (I won't say to ban DVD's and the like, they could just get those from China) then the N. Korean would be a lot more up in arms about this.

Could you imagine if your WoW account was taken away due to the politics of your nation? I know that is something that I would act upon (calling representatives or what have you).

small nations on nukes

[zogger]

The theory with having a few nukes and missiles to tote them is not to be able to take on superpowers and win, it is to have enough of a credible threat to avoid being invaded or bombed or regime changed. North korea could not hope to invade the US and take over, nukes or not, but if they had the ability to hit some west coast cities or hawaii-we would never attack them. As it is now, just with conventionals, they have enough destructive potential to avoid getting invaded. They could order "fire" and half an hour later most of south korea's largest cities would be poisonous rubble, just from old plain vanilla cannon fire and some cheap chemicals. You would have to pull a surprise neutron weapon saturation strike to avoid that happening, and even then they are dug in soo well a lot of them might be able to counterattack. They are well known as being heavy diggers.

As to the consumer products ban, it is a big fat joke, that is just easily avoided by them, they will get whatever they want a few steps away from directly, that's all.

Lucky Bastards.

[Deliveranc3]

They're right next to South Korea which has a bevy of companies making brilliant MP3 players.

Apple is a hardware company and their audio quality is notably lacking compared to my Creative Players and my GF's iRiver.

lets aggravate Kim Jong Il ..

[rs232]

"If you take away one of the tools of his control, perhaps you weaken the cohesion of his leadership"

Yea, if we take away his iPod, plasma television and Segway he'll totally lose it ..

The answer!

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's the answer then...

You fly overhead with planes filled with catalogs from Apple, Dell, Victoria's Secret, Harry & David, etc etc and drop the catalogs all over the city.

THEN you drop gift certificates to these stores... $1000 gift certificates.

FINALLY you drop a couple thousand cell phones.

Before you dismiss this, think it through... get tons of consumer goods in the hands of these people, Kim Jong Il will be singing "I'm so ronery" within 24 hours.

Oh Snap!

[blueZhift]

Oh Snap! No iPods for North Korea. How embarrassing, this is the sort of thing that basically says the rest of the world is powerless to effect any sort of change in North Korea or similar countries. But that is not necessarily evidence of anything bad. Instead it is evidence that ultimately it is up to the people of those countries to effect their own regime change. It may take 5 years, 10, or 100, but it is up to them. There is little we can do other than offer moral support. The disaster in Iraq will hopefully stand as a lesson of just how not to effect change in repressive governments, but oh, wasn't Vietnam supposed to do that too?

Death by Chocolate

[Alan426]

From TFA:

"Kim is reportedly under his physician's orders to avoid hard liquor and prefers French wines."

This brings to mind an assassination plot against the evil dictator ... every week, FedEx him a case of fine cognac, 10 lbs of the best chocolate, and 5 cases of Marlboros. Let him enjoy his final months!

Who drinks Johnny Walker?

[Syncerus]

Proof positive that the man is a barbarian. Civilized men drink MacCallan or Oban.

Nukeless Nukes

[jdbartlett]

Ever tried making omelet with no eggs?

Re:Nukeless Nukes

[nelsonal]

Yeah it makes the nicest stir fry.

MAKE YOUR TIME

[Infinityis]

IN A.D. 2006
WAR WAS BEGINNING.
Kim: WHAT HAPPEN?
Mechanic: SOMEBODY SET UP US THE BAN.
Operator: WE GET EMBARGO.
Kim: WHAT!!
Operator: VIDEO IPOD TURN ON.
Kim: IT'S YOU!!
Bush: HOW ARE YOU GENTLEMEN!!
Bush: ALL YOUR IPOD ARE BELONG TO US.
Bush: YOU ARE ON THE WAY TO BOREDOM.
Dictator Kim: WHAT YOU SAY!!
Bush: YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO PRESS PLAY MAKE YOUR TIME.
Bush: HA HA HA HA....
Operator: DICTATOR!
Kim: TAKE OFF EVERY 'MP3'!!
Kim: YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DOING.
Kim: MOVE 'ITUNES'.
Kim: FOR GREAT JUSTICE

Re:MAKE YOUR TIME

[Anonymous Coward]

What mod moderated this insightful?

Its funny at best, and even then not very much so.

Re:MAKE YOUR TIME

[sysadmin_dh33raj]

DATELINE: October 2006. George W Bush enters a New York recording studio, and with Phil Spector at the helm (and backing from the Rummy-ettes), records this little ditty... {SPOKEN} Are we good to go? Yeah? Just bring up the strings a little, will ya? That mad Korean despot's gone a bit too far (That dude Jong's dumb dumb; ol' Kim's done wrong) Somebody told me that he's nu-cu-lar (That dude Jong's dumb dumb; ol' Kim's done wrong) Yeah...we ain't afraid When...do we invade? When...all the Kool-Aid's gone We'll boot Jong's bum bum; ol' Kim's not strong... He bombed us at Pearl Harbour and enslaved the Kurds! (although that's wrong wrong, we'll play along...) He looks like Brains from The Thunderbirds! (That dude Jong's dumb dumb; ol' Kim's done wrong) Yeah...we'll have some fun! Yeah...just like Saigon Yeah...send in Sly Stallone That dude Jong's dumb dumb; ol' Kim's done wrong [Clinton sax solo] War will be our first...I mean, our last resort (That dude Jong's dumb dumb; ol' Kim's done wrong) Least this time we've got UN support (That dude Jong's dumb dumb; ol' Kim's done wrong) Yeah...we're lookin' bad Yeah...we've screwed Baghdad So...right through Washington It's "Let's get Jong Jong; let's make Kim gone..." [Ad-lib] Yeah yeah yeah yeah (That dude Jong's dumb dumb; ol' Kim's done wrong) We can win this one! (That dude Jong's dumb dumb; ol' Kim's done wrong) Dad'll be so proud... (That dude Jong's dumb dumb; ol' Kim's done wrong) We havin' Chinese for dinner, Laura? (That dude Jong's dumb dumb; ol' Kim's done wrong) [FADE TO APPLE]

Those bastards!

[dapsychous]

Screw Nuclear Proliferation, human rights violations, and breaches of international treaty, they're downloading illegal music! PIRATING BASTARDS!

Somebody sic the RIAA on them, maybe it'll give them something productive to do.

So we acknowledge this but ignore it?

[KalElOfJorEl]

So we're cutting back on Ipods and Segways when he likes to drive Mercedes Benz and BMW vehicles?

Maybe we should place sanctions on things we produce that he likes.

Just the opposite of what we should do

[200_success]

These sanctions are just the opposite of what we should do if we want North Korea to turn around. We should be flooding their market with foreign products, not witholding them. Juche, or self-reliance, is a fundamental tenet of North Korean ideology. The government shuts out all foreign communication and products, telling the people that they are better off doing everything without outside help. We can impose all the sanctions we want, the government doesn't want our products in the country anyway.

If we do an airlift, showering the North Koreans with McDonald's, iPods, etc., the people would immediately see what the government has deprived them of. Such an operation would not be easy, the results are not predictable, and Americanizing the world is not a worthy goal. However, I'm convinced that breaking their isolation by foisting foreign goods on the North Koreans is what the regime would fear the most.

Ummmmm.

[PhotoGuy]

Doesn't this sound very stupid? Sanctions targeting the leader? I see sanctions as reducing the overall number of things entering a country, not eliminating it. You don't think enough Johnny Walker or Cadillac's can be smuggled in to keep *one* ruler happy, depsite the heaviest sanctions in the world? Unless he's hung up on creating major trends in his country (and he doesn't seem to care about the well-being of his country at all), then what's the point?

Re:Let's get this straight: the black market

[nelsonal]

Middle class in North Korea means you had enough rice to cut the hunger pangs enough to fall asleep tonight. This was a country that stripped all the bark off it's trees in an attempt to find enough calories to survive!

Kim is ok with that!

[imkow]

Dear Leader Kim doesn't want such expansive devices. He will turn to his comrades in China.
And We Chinese will be shipping tons of cheap mp3 players to his dominion.

Johnnie Walker Scotch Whisky

[Anti_Climax]

Ron White said it was the Scotch for people that intend to die penniless. Maybe Kim knows something we don't.

I wonder if his preference for Johnnie Walker (Blue Label I'd imagine) would make it a better or worse Christmas gift for my girlfriend.

what difference does it make

[museumpeace]

there's no internet in NKorea to download your iTunes from and the only mp3 available is of Kim's speeches.

Re:what difference does it make

[Anonymous Coward]

It makes no difference. Kim probably sends a train into China every week or so for his ipod shopping. As to the no internet part, that's crap. Kim surely has internet provided through China or others. He has fiber buried all over the country, and while the regular people don't get food he has ANYTHING he wants.

Where have I seen this before..

[Vengie]

I see we've taken a play from the playbook discovered in Seldon's vault on Terminus....

2 gigabyte flash and a USB connector... hmmm...

[grikdog]

Gee, can't imagine anyone has thought of SOME way to use a teeny weeny process controller for something other than cochlear mind rot? Call McGyver, quick!

hypocracy and sanctions

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps the country that has the worlds largest
nuclear arsenal should get rid of its own
"weapons of mass distruction" before trying to
stop others from building them.

And yes, they (Korea) are the bad guys so it is
more dangerous if they have nuclear weapons. But US is the good guy as they only use nuclear weapons for
good causes such as bombing hiroshima and nagasaki.
No other country has been as good as they never ever
nuked anybody.

Hennessy X.O

[Prune]

I'm surprised he listed X.O, as you can buy it for about $130 per 750 mL bottle. Compare that to Hennessy's higher-end offerings of up to $1700 per 750 mL bottle. Still, it's at least a decent brand, not like the Courvoisier or Martell. I'd recommend Delamain over all of these. For the same quality you spend less. Better yet, the cognac-type brandy of Germain-Robin, hand made in California, is yet better value than all of these (too bad they don't export, so it's hard for me to get it in Canada).

Oh NO!

[kimvette]

Oh no, what will the two North Koreans who can actually afford the iPod do?

Re:Your english is too good. So, I translated it.

[sysadmin_dh33raj]

Baberfish doesnt get nuked , lets hope.