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How 'Games for Windows' Will Change PC Gaming
Joystiq has a short piece up talking with Windows (GFW) Marketing Director Kevin Unangst and PR Manager Michael Wolf about the future of the 'Games for Windows' initiative. With the launch of Vista, Microsoft is making a big push to turn PC games into a 'console-like' cohesive brand. Instead of relying on the good name of individual publishers to sell titles, Redmond is requiring that all titles use similar packaging and a distinctive logo. Along with the new gamer-centric features in Vista, and the tie-in to Xbox 360 with 'Live Anywhere', this is meant to reinvigorate the PC games market for the sometimes not-so-savvy consumer. From the article: "By making gaming a priority in the Vista experience, Microsoft is molding a powerful pairing of the Games for Windows and Xbox 360 brands. To some extent, this is based on a hope that Live Anywhere will be embraced by GFW developers and publishers, pulling Xbox Live (and your Gamertag) outside of the 'Box, in turn encouraging an unrivaled virtual community. But there are simpler touches that also spark our interest. For example, start up Vista's Minesweeper, connect your 360 controller, and enjoy a subtle rumble each time you slip up. It's the melding with the familiar that will drive new and lost consumers to the Games for Windows brand."
Anything that brings the usability of a console with the flexibility of a PC together is a good thing in my book. An XBox Live system for the PC+XBox would be welcome too.
Brilliant stragety. Worked wonders for the borg.
Until that one lady captain made them emo.
Just wait till some crappy band steals your nic.
Forget Minesweeper, I want multiplayer solitaire with voice chat.
"It's the melding with the familiar that will drive new and lost consumers to the Games for Windows brand."
So they have given up on all the current gamers, eh?
Besides that amazingly stupid thing to say, which I'm sure was more of a slip-of-the-tongue-while-trying-imitate-Nintendo, PC games have always been wildly different. Trying to make them somehow the same by making them all use the same box design is crazy. (Same meaning moreso than they already are, considering they are all the same shape and size, etc etc.) Requiring the logos to be the same spot, and the requirements in the same spot, etc etc will only stifle the creativity of the box designers. It will not somehow create a community for pc gamers that didn't exist before and draw in people that have been resistant to PC gaming.
Those people DO NOT CARE.
If you can build a Wiimote for PC and not get sued, THEN you can probably get some non-gamers to care. (Or another suitably wonderful and fun controller.)
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
"Trust us."
This is yet another tactic from Microsoft to discourage the development of multi-platform titles by tying games to Windows even more.
Part of the hardcore faithful who believed in Apple long before it was cool again to do so
The whole games for Windows isn't introducing a whole lot. The ratings system to compare your hardware to game requirements is great, but not for me, i can read the requirements and know what my system can and can't do, but good for teh newb. I can't imagine hooking up a 360 controller to my PC as one of the features of PC gaming over consoles is the fact that a PC gets to use a mouse/kb and the console is stuck with a controller. The joy of getting a rumble cause I messed up in Minesweeper isnt' go to hit me as it's not very likely that I'm going to play minesweeper. I dunno about this, I thought the new Direct X was really the only interesting thing about gaming in the MS world.
Of course MS wants to emphasize gaming on their OS. Many people, myself included, would never touch Windows again if it weren't for the games... But I find this stupid: "To earn the GFW brand, a title must comply with certain Microsoft-tested specifications, including ... compatibility with the Xbox 360 controller."
Another example of MS bullying game publishers to adopt its standards. Do all PC gamers have an Xbox or like its controller? Why not other PC-only gamepads that might work better? Besides, what true gamer would limit their FPS experience with a friggn' console controller?
But simplifying install (and uninstall) and system reqs makes sense. Too bad it took so damn long.
I have waited almost ten years for them to put rumble support into minesweeper! oh boy!!! I can barely contain myself.
The only game I can think of at the moment that really makes use of a windowing environment is Angband. Ironically, most versions use ASCII graphics.
The basic versions I've seen tend to have one 80x24 window for the map, another for the inventory, etc.
This is your wake up call. MS intends to leverage their OS monopoly to give themselves and advantage in the gaming console market. This also provides another layer of defense around their core, OS monopoly. This is bad news for all of you, Nintendo, Sony, and Apple. They're also trying to build out DirectX tools to make the PC and Xbox a one stop shop. This is their classic strategy and it works, unless the existing players form a good, open standards based partnership. You're all influential OpenGL houses. You all have a vested interest here. Sony has already moved towards making OpenGL models key to their gaming platform. Now is the time for all of you to abandon trying to build lock-in strategies in this field and start making a concerted effort to interoperate. Build a game development toolset that makes OpenGL games on Windows, PS3, Wii, and the Mac a single entity. Beat MS at their own game. Give Blizzard and Id a call. You've got one shot at this guys, and if you fail your media enterprises are going to be easy targets. Get to it!
I'm predicting this will fail.
True, 2007 will not be the Year of Desktop Linux, but that's only because most people who won't buy Vista have no need to replace their old computers yet. Most of us will be moving games onto Mac or consoles, and abandoning the Windows desktop or laptop.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I know that this will never happen, but it would be awesome if MS could release a PC addon, say an optical drive that could read and play 360 games on your PC. I think they would stand to gain far more than they lose. But what do I know, Im not a marketroid.
Good-bye
For example, start up Vista's Minesweeper, connect your 360 controller, and enjoy a subtle rumble each time you slip up.
Lo-ooh-sing never felt so go-ooh-od!
"Redmond is requiring that all titles use similar packaging and a distinctive logo."
The inclusion of a distinctive logo doesn't change the need to turn the box over and read the fine print for "required" and "reccomended" hardware to play the game. Console gaming works because a Wii is a Wii is a Wii.
Yah think?
One of the top reasons people cite when they reconsider moving to another platform is the unavailability of the games they like, or the reality that the games don't become available until months later. That's an advantage MS would like to preserve. Every game written for DirectX 10 / Vista rather than OpenGL / multiplatform is a step in that direction, and every effort to make OpenGL a second-class 3D API on Vista is too.
Pc gamers may not like have to pay for live to get online play with pc games and that also means
NO MODS when playing online.
Being forced to use M$ servers for on line play would be a bad thing.
ID software games may be forced to drop mac, linux, and opengl If they want to be part of this.
Why don't they just call it, "You really should own an XBox 360. Go buy one"?
FTFA: "Computer Gaming World was also renamed as Games For Windows to help drive Microsoft's new brand."
Also, it's good to know there's another gaming rag I can safely ignore.
In summation, I really enjoy watching people I don't trust announce what they'll do to shove things I don't want down my throat.
By doing this you can make all the games the same size and possibly smaller then they are now. The big advantage of console games is they fit into such a small space you can fit many times more games then you can the large unwieldy boxes PC games still come in. While this is somewhat of a security measure I think the corporations at large would be willing to trade a higher theft risk vs being able to put out more games.
Maybe with this change the EB games near me will have more then just a small off-center rack of PC titles.
I keep telling myself I'm not the desperate type.
Also, there are many games for Windows that were originally developed with a console-style control in mind. The two I've played are the GTA series and Lego Star Wars. A quality, standards-based controller for those console-port-type games would be great.
PS. Yes, it's Oblivion I'm talking about.
Infinite time means everything that can happen, will. You being you is absolutely incidental. You do not exist.
So MS is once again leveraging it's monopoly on the desktop to gain market share where they can't dominate without (game consoles). Wasn't there an antitrust case or something?
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
...would be a headline from 1995, or possibly something circa 1989... NOT 2007. Microsoft needs to get its head out of its ass, and realize that people are not going to see Vista as a revolutionary new tool that will change their lives. NO operating system has ever been THAT important to layman. Even Windows 95, as big as it was, changed gaming only slightly... most game developers, back then, still prefered to code for DOS, as they could get more power out of it. It wasn't until about a third into the life-cycle of Windows98 that a large percentage of games were being made for Windows. I remember back in the "Whistler" days, Microsoft said the same thing, the next OS was going to revolutionize gaming, make it more convenient, and draw huge new demographics in. Eh, PC gaming has grown, sure, but GAMING has grown, and PC gaming has actually grown far less than console gaming in the last 5 years. Anyone who's not an uber-gamer is just sick of compatability issues, and other inconveniences. Also, the bottom line is that anything in the "entertainment room" is going to dominate gaming, over anything that is in the office, until people feel able to sit back in an armchair or sofa and play a PC game, consoles will win.
Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
I am sort of hoping that with the PS3's use of open standards (sorry for the marketspeak), games would be relatively easily ported to Linux. Sony could release a set of libraries, and make porting games from PS3 to any system, including Linux or Mac, reasonably easy. Changing includes and optimizations and target system in your makefile, and without too much trouble, you have a game for all platforms.
I have freaks! I did something right...
I'm not anti-microsoft by any means. But does anybody else remember the Multimedia PC spec MS came out with in the mid-90's? MPC1 for example was a 386 or greater with 2MB RAM and a 2x speed CD-ROM, MPC2 was a 486 with 4MB RAM and a 4x CD-ROM. Might not have remembered it quite right but it was meant to simplify and standardise PC specs.
:)
Everybody ignored it then, too
Wait--Microsoft wants me to spend $2K on a PC running Vista so I'll have a better gaming platform? Personally I have no desire to upgrade to Vista. XP works just fine plus there are no worries about DRM or Microsoft's wonky securtiy code.
Has M$ done something to prevent a USB mouse and keyboard from being plugged into the XBox360? Why isn't the future of PC gaming a console with a mouse and keyboard?
I do believe the parent was talking about Windows/Mac/Linux type of multi-platform, not PC/console.
After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
- The Tao of Programming
Although it'll be nice to have a proper centralised player matching service on the pc, much like live on the 360. The biggest concern for me is the mandatory 360 controller compatiblity to get games for windows certification. For RTS games this is going to result in horid UI's which have to work with both a mouse and a controller. Also as the games will most likely be cross platform with the 360, the controller will take precedance in the UI design. So games for windows will most likely mean that all the pc gets in future is 360 ports that require a controller plugged into the pc to play decently.
... the 360.
Ultimately while this seems like its a bold new push for windows games, in reality I can see this reduce the distinctiveness of PC games against 360 games (the control method) and hence push more people onto the cheaper wholely owned microsoft platform
For years, we (tin hat specialists?) have been yelling that tying your games to DirectX = being swallowed by the MS behemoth. MS described DirectX as a (superior) API to existing technologies.
Now, finally, I feel vindicated. "Games for Windows" games will get all kinds of features that won't work on non-"Games for Windows" games.
Hopefully, this will be make OpenGL, OpenAL, SDL, etc. . . look even better (as they've been rapidly improving of late) in comparison to the DirectX suite of APIs.
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
That's an interesting point. Would a Windows/Mac game (packaged in one box) be eligible for the "Games for Windows" label? Or would the studio have to choose between separate packaging and forgoing the premium brand?
Seriously? Yes, I'm a Microsoft MVP, yes I'm a software architect who specializes in Microsoft .NET technologies, yes I'm a big Windows gamer, I also have an Xbox and an Xbox 360, I'm an Xbox Live subscriber, so yes, you can call me a fanboi.
But it amazes me to see that in the eyes of so many readers here, Microsoft can do no right. Whatever they do, you'll see the glass half-empty. Sure they tried gaming on Windows before and the MPC spec too, and it did not work. It does not mean the idea is bad, it means the implementation is. Look at pen computing: since the late 80's many companies (other than Microsoft) tried to push for pen computing and failed utterly, whereas Microsoft decided to take a crack at it and was very successful with the Tablet PC. Sometimes the approach has to change, not the idea. Ask any entrepreneur, they know.
I'm happy this is coming to Games for Windows. do not need a nice box and I can easily read specs, but I also recognize that common folks (not everyone is a geek like us guys) will find it useful, and the extra testing will only help quality. And so what if Microsoft uses their Windows dominance to help the Xbox? Look at Sony... 70% of the console market and they cannot innovate beyond a faster CPU and they have such an arrogant attitude. And if Linux is supposed to be an alternative to Windows, then it needs to have what it takes. If you say "I only play on Windows because Linux has no hardware drivers and no games, it means there is no market for these. Linux still has to get a lot better for it to be used by average folks at home on their desktops. It is a great server OS, but it just does not cut it for desktops, and to beat Microsoft, you have to build something better, no destroy Redmond.
I'm open to a discussion here, but please ask yourself, is there anything that Microsoft could do as a business that would ever please you? Honestly?
DO NOT WANT.
I quite enjoy the "cluttered mess of disparate titles" that has provided me with entertainment more flexible and varied than anything available on any of the consoles for the past 20 years. I enjoy console gaming too, but the PC is my chance to get away from the limitations of console and vice-versa. What do current PC gamers really stand to gain by combining both sets of limitations?
I'm sick of this stupid trend of making PC games more "console-like" in an effort appeal to a wider audience and make porting to console easier. If I want to play console games, I'll play them on a damn console. Quit screwing the existing market for the benefit of a market you're trying to create.
I own two Logitech iFeel force feedback mice (don't bother, they've been discontinued for a while) that would be ideal for something like this. I'd rather use one of those for Minesweeper than an Xbox 360 controller. Unreal Tournament was pretty fun with them. Too bad that more games didn't support it.
Granted I haven't been in the PC gaming scene for a while but I thought that the main draw was things like lots of RAM, decent graphics cards, a hard driver, and its unique keyboard/mouse controllers. Since console gaming has pretty much taken all of those with the exception of the keyboard/mouse controls, PC gaming is much like the Wii; focusing on control rather than specs.
Sticking an Xbox 360 controller into a PC is like sticking a Gamecube controller in a Wii.
If they want to pull this off, one thing they will absolutely have to do is make available for download some sort of non-geek friendly equivalent of 3DMark so that people who don't know the make and model of every component in their PC can just run a quick test and get a list of all the games they can currently run and possibly what they need in order to run LatestKillerGame 2008 or whatever, as well as hardware compatibility testing and a guided, centralized driver, BIOS, etc. upgrade system. So long as you have to know a dozen different numbers, from GPU to RAM speed to Processor family to Driver Version, as well as digging through archaic hardware manufacturer support sites and mysterious newsgroups to make sure that you don't end up with a dud even though your hardware exceeds the spec (Ubisoft / NVidia, I'm looking at you) because drivers are clashing and all involved parties are sitting on one hand and using the other to point a finger at somebody else instead of fixing it, PC gaming will simply never compare to console. Granted, I use a console maybe twice a month compared to gaming on PC nearly daily, but there's just no way in hell most of my console-gamer friends could hope to sift through the mess.
Unpleasantries.
So are they going to require me to pay for the Xbox live gold service to play online with all the new games that come out? I would find that really irritating if they did.
My only real worry here is that PC game makers will start trying to make their PC games with the "console-player" in mind. See Deus Ex versus Deus Ex 2. I still cry when I think about the second one.
Property is theft.
Thank you, Captain Obvious.
Now tell me how you get retail display space for Linux games when there isn't a baseline hardware and software configuration for the home market like a PC with the Vista Premium sticker.
Customer: "Will this thing run Oblivion?"
Sales Clerk: "Go right ahead and crank everything you like up to the max. You are good to go."
Customer: "That is all I wanted to know."
It will never be that easy, but that is the general idea.
So ... a "Games for Windows" brand? Please. You put "for Windows" on something and I automatically associate it with proprietary loads of hooey. And I don't want to associate good games with proprietary loads of hooey. I want to be able to give them a chance, rather than just passing that section completely. I already pass up the bright-green Xbox section when game shopping, but I fear what goodness I would miss if I had to pass up the computer game section.
"Designed for Windows XP"
"Games for Windows."
Looks like they're really the same thing. And the summary is wrong. Redmond isn't forcing anything. If you want to have the GFW brand on your package you have to follow a set of rules, just like Designed For Windows 95. And I can still release a game for the PC that is whatever I want rules be damned. I won't get the GFW banner but MS can't stop me from releasing my game.
Live Anywhere, eh? Didn't we hear a similar marketing warcry from them a couple years ago?
Oh, right: "Plays for Sure."
Hopefully this'll play out just as well for them.
Developing a KBM for Xbox360 is a must for any solution to be a success. I have seen a few posts already here on the subject of KBM control being one of the most significant advantages to PC gaming. Being a fan of games on both platforms and knowing many games experienced with both platforms the opinion is universal. The KBM user will always have an advantage over the controllers, some exceptions might be in racing and the less evolved "questing" games. No FPS games believes that they have more precise aming or agile movement with a console controller. Try playing Lord of the Rings:Strategy with the controller, you will cry for a mouse. Even the 360 chatting features would benefit from a KBM solution. Imagine being forced to use a virtual scrolling keyboard to type any messages to game allies and friends. I would rather style my hair with a steel bristle brush while chewing on aluminum foil and playing "This little piggie" with Kris Kristofferson and his lackey wielding the 14-pound sledge hammer.
For every benefit you receive a tax is levied. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Slightly OT, since this article primarily concerns the branding effort, but MS just needs to buy XFire and integrate it into Live's framework.
Being able to see what all my friends are playing regardless of which box either of us is on? Win.
Do you see what I did there?
No, it's taken the keyboard and mouse too. Mouse first (Remember the Genesis, SNES, and PSone mice?) And then the keyboard via USB. Those USB ports on the PS2 (and PS3) are there for a reason.
The ability to use keyboard and mouse hasn't led to more PC to console ports of games like Civilization or those hex based wargames though which surprises me.
This is a good marketing strategy. Other platforms are nipping as Microsofts heels; but Microsoft still owns the "off-the-shelf" game market. Tie in the games closer to Microsoft; possibly spread some funds around the industry; and get complete platform lock-in on Windows.
Now that there will be impetus to produce games for Windows (the name is GFW), it is a small step to target the Microsoft console platform as well.
So, the first releases will be for XBOX and Windows. This is called synergy; and exloits Redhat/Suse et al (the linux vendors) weakness -- gaming.
Ratboy
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
Redmond is requiring that all titles use similar packaging and a distinctive logo. Along with the new gamer-centric features in Vista, and the tie-in to Xbox 360 with 'Live Anywhere', this is meant to reinvigorate the PC games market for the sometimes not-so-savvy consumer.
The PC platform is not like the consoles in that it is not generally possible for the operating system vendor, Microsoft in this case, to exclude third parties from writing software for the platform. This has both positive and negative consequences as the experience of Microsoft has demonstrated (i.e. third parties producing poor quality software which gives Microsoft Windows a bad name while at the same time giving more software choices on Microsoft Windows). I suppose that you could invent some logo scheme like "playsforsure" or "designed for windows" or "games for windows" or whatever and not allow use of the logo if the vendor will not play by the rules (combined with a FUD advertising campaign warning consumers about "untrusted" non-logo software), but how does this in any way help the consumer? People buy games because they hear about them from a friend or read about them in a gaming magazine, not because the game has some "games for windows" logo. The only place that I can see this making any difference is when grandma is at Walmart trying to purchase a "game" for her grandson and chooses "math blasters 2007" because it is a "game for windows" and it is educational so it has to be good right? Wrong.
...Which is exactly what we are going to do, once Super Smash Bros: Brawl comes out. If you even imply that it is possible to play fighting games with the wiimote, i will showe said controller were it doesnt belong in the human body. And about what makes the xbox attractive... the PC have had those things for a long time now, why downgrade to an inferior console? I do not mean that the xbox cant deliver as much/more entertainment as the PC, im simply questioning your somewhat flawed logic. I will go with the crowd on /.; this is just another create-a-market-and-earn-bucketloads-of-money from M$.
Microsoft reinvigorated this household out of the PC games for the Windows market with its WGA spyware crap.
Case in point (this experience is from 01, 2006. Maybe Microsoft has changed since then),
Atari ships DX9 with Roller Coaster Tycoon Gold. It won't work under Windows 98SE/2000 with the latest Nvidia card without DX9c. Atari states the can't provide the update, you need it from Microsoft. Microsoft refuses to let you download the DX9c update because its WGA spyware thinks my original Win2000/Win98 systems are stolen. I've tried it several different boxes with different (unregistered) store bought copies of Win2k and Win98SE. All failed the WGA spyware check.
Thats OK though, all our new kid games are for the PS2/Gamecube (and Wii soon). All the new purchased PC (PC means personal computer for the Microsoft folks) games are for Linux, I bought 8 games this year.
So much for Win32/DirectX being compatible accross different Microsoft platforms.
And Microsoft wonders why thier entertainment division revenue is flat. Its called treating your customers like shit.
Enjoy,
It's just the normal noises in here.
...much higher scrutiny. Any more questions?
It would be quite rude to read Slashdot while your in game charachter has the bomb your team is supposed to plant, or fiddle with Quicken while other players are waiting for you to make your move in Civilization.
If you're playing with someone else in the same mood, like a slow chess game where you check and see if the other guy has moved, that's cool. If not, you owe it to the other players to keep your focus on the game.
Yeah, what about games like Unreal Tournament that work on Win 95-Vista, Linux, and Mac OS, and probably even on BSDs, Solaris, and BeOS? There should be more games like that. The more platforms you support, the more potential customers, right?
look! it's a bird, it's a plane, it's....a girl? yes, a girl browsing Slashdot on Linux
is there anything that Microsoft could do as a business that would ever please you? Honestly?
To paraphrase the animatrix: Surrender your code and you will enjoy a new life of the mind. You have no choice.
While I think that the only way for them to prevent a repeat of past abuses is to GPL their code, most people would be happy if they would just quit trying to FUCK EVERYONE. You know, stop threatening to sue everyone, shoving formats onto media, quit the drive to "trusted computing" where everyone must pay a fine to run on "their platform" and nothing else runs on any computing device made, stupid totalitarian shit like that. I don't have anything to do with their garbage, yet still they bother me. I have to trade files with people who still suffer on their platform. Worse, I have to put up with all the silly restrictions they force onto ISPs, which do little to stop the further damage their OS does to the networks every day. If drawing up little rules about packaging for what constitutes a game on Windoze is any indication, they are going in the wrong direction. They are flexing muscles they should not have to no good purpose. It's an exercise in pure annoyance that announces the future stagnation of Windows gaming.
The funniest thing about all of this is that it's suicidal. By sticking to their own junk and the non free way, they are falling further and further behind. Had they spent the last six years porting to free software instead of building Vista, they would be much stronger today. Instead they are about to take a huge fall: Vista is going to be a washout and revenue from Office is going to dry up.
Their death will be good for the rest of the industry. There are plenty of good distributions out there, ready, willing and able to configure PCs for vendors. Their biggest roadblock is M$'s cross licensing and vendor intimidation to keep specs out of their hands. Microsoft's downfall will bring real and honest competition to an industry that's been hamstrung for decades.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I can't guarantee this, but I believe that I've purchased my last windows game already. It's consoles for me now, baybee.
Gettng a PC rigged out for games is kinda pricey, every year or two I gotta get a new video card or sit in the back of the bus, and they're still not as fun as most console games. PC games tend to be solitary. Even when you're playing with others, you're alone. (Yes, I'm discounting the lan party, due to the microscopic size of that subculture)
I'll just do without the games I can't play on a console.
Anyway, this coming from somebody who has already spent far far too much of my life and money on PC gaming.
Laugh while you can, monkey-boy!
They can have my mouse when they pry it from my cold dead fingers...
I could just sell my game box and buy a laptop - write a novel, and retire to the local jazz club on a nightly basis to soak my troubles in scotch?
The scotch is looking mighty good right now...
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
If the Plays-for-Sure betrayal is any track record, the companies who sign onto Games-for-Windows can expect perhaps a year of support, then Microsoft will completely dump the standard for some incompatible scheme where they make and sell all the content.
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
I've said numerous times on this site, give me DX10 for linux or give me windows. Windows does NOTHING that good old linux can't do until you want to fire up some CounterStrike. And just don't even go there with the Cegeda, just stop before you start....
Ever done a `man` on `top` ?
You are completely wrong.
MS isnt forcing them to pay a logo fee. This is about simplifying hardware requirements. If you RTFA you will see that this is a system where your pc is given a ranking out of five stars that denotes what its capabilities are. That way when you go to the store you dont have to know anything about how much memory you have, what video card you have, the size of your L2 cache, etc.
This helps game developers a great deal because it means that people can buy games with confidence that they will work. A lot of folks have been turned off to pc games in the past because they got home after shelling out fifty bucks for a game and realized it wasnt playable with only 512 megs of memory or whatever.
Of course slashdotters didnt fail to put a negative spin on this with some lame conspiracy about how they are forcing their brand onto developers. And the conspiracy doesnt even make sense, those boxes ALREADY say that the game requires MS Windows.
Here's a hint: It's *not* the packaging. I repeat. It's *not* the packaging. Say it with me. "It's *not* the packaging." (Oh, and if the game isn't actually fun, then graphics, MS Points, Buddy lists, X360 Interoperability, fan site kits, and realistic headshot blood isn't going to matter, but nobody seems to be listening so far...)
Add a very simple AI sweeping down the screen, and suddenly your controller becomes a minesweeping machine. Try Luminesweeper for Game Boy Advance and emulators.
But once you unplug four USB gamepads from your home theater PC and plug in a keyboard and mouse, suddenly you need four times as many computers for multiplayer social gaming.
By strange coincidence, this was the day when I switched my WoW box to Linux.
I'm done with annoying copy protection crap and 19 kinds of firewalls, anti-virus, anti-spyware, and so on. I'm done running my games on a system that cannot function without eight indistinguishable copies of "SVCHOST.EXE", the "generic host process" that could be anything from a Windows service to a botnet.
From here on in, if I can play a game in Linux, or on an actual console, cool, and if I can't, well, I'll live.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
If you're making a game to play on a home theater PC, then it had better work with a gamepad. How else are you going to put four players on one machine? (No, not all simultaneous multiplayer games need a split screen.)
I'm still trying to figure out how Vista is supposed to be great for gaming. I tried it and went back for XP FOR gaming. Since they did away with directsound all my game have cruddy 2.0 stereo sound, many of which pop and crackle horribly, especially Neverwinter Nights 2. Simply put, many games are now unplayable due to absolutely horrible sound with no patches on the horizon for OpenAL since they're too old to be supported. And when I mean unplayable I'm not exaggerating, in some games I can't hear a damn thing. It's all stutters and screeches. Other games that fare better still lack surround sound, or even stereo audio positioning! I'm all for encouraging open source & cross-platform standards like OpenAL, but it shouldn't be at the expense of effectivly ruining 98% of my existing game library. At least Starcraft works 100%. Oh wait, it works just as well under WINE?
No, but Microsoft can refuse to give its digital signature to a game that recommends a keyboard and mouse for best play. Without a valid digital signature, the game will not execute on a retail console.
Why isn't the future of PC gaming a console with a mouse and keyboard?For the same reason that the future of video isn't satellite TV but YouTube. Console gaming doesn't allow amateur developers to distribute mods or full games to players. PC and HTPC gaming are more democratic and thus more "Web 2.0" in a sense.
Then on which platform will you play console-style games that are developed and sold for the home theater PC because the developer is a small company with which none of the console makers will deign to negotiate?
Until Microsoft bullies the major retailers into carrying only Games for Windows® certified entertainment software, just as Nintendo in the NES era bullied retailers into not carrying NES-compatible software published by Camerica or Tengen that lacked the Official Nintendo Seal.
Yup... it's time to go outside! :)
I enjoy games as much as the next guy. I steer clear of consoles because the game play is typically not what I want. That said... If MS develop something I don't enjoy, I won't use it. /shrug No sweat off my back. It's the ignorance of overreaction that they feed off of. They develop products to make money. It's not a sin, nor is it illegal. It's what people do to make a living. While most everyone seems to be complaining here, I doubt very seriously their actions will stop you from spending your money on their products in the future. They've spent countless man-hours and money to ensure that continues.
It's quite simple... They want the most money for their games and you want the most game for your money. They will continue to push the limits to get you to spend more, as you will continue to demand newer and better games.
It's the very reason that the $500 Radeon 9800 Pro that was remarkably desired just a couple years ago is now "obsolete?"... or how about the 3.4GHz P4? Because it's not Dual-Core it's not good enough any more? Now we'll need Dual-Core cpu's with parallel dual-core gpu's to run high-end uber games! OMG! hmph.. or not.
It's all marketing bs. Heck, the most fun I've had on the 360 is playing the classic games that can be downloaded through xbox live. /shrug A 25yo $5 game on a $500 console? That's so ironic, it's nauseating. Not to say I'm above it. I've got my custom home-built $1500+ pc, complete with high-end case and cooling system that has now become obsolete... so that I can pay $40+/mo for internet and a $15/mo subscription to blizzard so that I can a) play WoW and b) get the weather/traffic before I go to work?
I guess what I'm tryin' to say is... Quit crying. If you don't like it, don't use it.
-Quixxilver- "Where am I going?
Hey $GAMESTORE: If you stop selling non-GFW PC games, we'll give you the same discount on Windows and Office that all the other retailers are getting.
Remember Loki? Ported games that worked. But not enough "Linux gamers" (an oxymoron) bought them.
Loki was brought down by high flying management, not by lack of demand. Linux Game Publishing and Transgaming manage to get by in spite of all the barriers Microsoft erects.
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
I am inclined to agree... oftentimes, at my computer, i multitask. i have been playing a lot more console games lately, because, with my consoles plugged into the tv next to my computer desk, i can pause between levels and talk to friends in yahoo messenger.
lately, i've found myself playing Yugioh Online because its a fun strategic game that will run in a window. its turn based, and i can keep my eye on the game while chatting with a friend when its not my turn.
I'm also an MVP (C#), and a well-known .NET developer, and I hate it when Microsoft tries to tie things together like XBox 360 and windows gaming. The thing is: I can't run vista on my PC, because it's my main dev box and I need VS.NET 2003, which isn't supported on Vista (debugger won't run). So, if PC gaming is going the way MS wants, I either need to buy another PC to just run PC games or abandone PC gaming altogether. Now, FPS games are better played on a PC, so I really would hate the direction MS is looking at. I mean: I don't care about the XBox 360, as I like games made by japanese studio's, so I have a PS2 and will likely move to PS3.
.NET and C# a lot, but hate their marketing tactics/strategies, and I'm not alone in that.
And for the rest of your post... well, I'm happy for you you really like your Microsoft stuff, but newsflash: there are others who have different opinions. I like
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
PC games had their own console. It was highly upgradable, nearly-limitless in it's potential (as long as the coding took advantage of it,) and the loading screen was (until after Quake) more informative than any console game as far as physical hardware detection and loading parts went (Quake 1, anyone? I loved seeing my GPU specs splash across the screen and people go "WOW!") Nowdays, we see the word "LOADING" with a fucking progression bar (Well, minus halo, we see a sweeping rendering of some circuitry, and once the brightest point hits the right side of the screen, it's loaded and ready to go....) we look at a machine with more teraflops (or whatever,) than our computer, because it's native and not general-purpose like our computers (though we can still emulate you fuckers, HAH!) and we drool over it enough to FUCKING KILL SOMEONE! (I don't need to remind everyone of that, do I?)
PC Gaming will always be better, and SAFER, than console gaming. Unless our computers get to a point where we're getting worldwide launch announcements over the TV, we'll always enjoy a lower price point with equivalent hardware (hey, we're already emulating the PS3 - you think those 8 CELL processors are going to bug us 64-bit users? Not once we have quad-core as a minimum, which won't be long, since we've switched from the GHz to Core race. (I work in a laptop repair depot, we feel the most strain in this area, sorry, but with laptops being used for servers now, with multi-core, we're getting mass pressure put upon us.)
PC Gaming will always (sadly) be a niche market. It's up to the developers to code smarter and more efficiently for general purpose code (Like HL2 did. I was surprised it ran on my 64 meg GF1.) than work for dedicated hardware. Quit bitching, use universal APIs, and get it done so we can smash the consoles!
End Half-Assed Rant.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I fail to understand why this was modded flamebait.
Some of this I like, some of this I am wary of. I LIKE the idea that it will be easier to match your PC against a games stated requirements, especially as mine will be attractively low. I also LIKE the idea that there is some centralised GUI (in the screenshot) for putting all the games in one place where they are easily played and uninstalled. Ease of use FTW.
Some things I don't like:
This twaddle about the xbox 360 controller is insane. I don't make games for consoles, I don't make multi-platform games. The idea that all games might be usable with a gamepad is laughable. Have fun with those text adventure games and mega-shortcut frenzy RTS and MMORPG games with that gamepad!
Also, I have a horrid feeling the whole thing will be set up for BIG companies with BIG games. The beauty of the PC is its openess. Anyone can sit down in their living room with a compiler and develop a game (like me!). Something tells me that only games that have passed an expensive certification system, (to keep out smaller devs) will end up with their games in that shiny new interface.
If the price of an easier and user-friendly system for playing PC games is that microsoft start having a veto on what games are made, then I'd rather things stayed as they are.
DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
It only takes a couple of minutes to set up a game correctly, even if one does not know what all the technical terms are. Just set everything to max, then run the game and downgrade each setting until the result is pleasing.
The problem is not what Microsoft does, but what we, the community, do about Microsoft. Since MS has a good product, they have a right to sell it in any way they want, including word processors and games.
But what has the open source community or other companies done all these years regarding gaming? is there an open source gaming library that covers all aspects of game programming and is cross-platform and easy to use? in other words, is there a Qt for gaming? nope, there is not. As there is not a simple yet powerful operating system (Linux is powerful but not simple), a powerful Office Package without bugs (Open Office has quite a lot of them) etc.
Please don't tell me that it is the monopoly of Microsoft that determines the success of its products. It is simply the quality of the experience: Microsoft products offer the right quality for the right people (system admins many not be them though). Open source can do it; take Firefox for example: great open source success, because the product is of very high quality.
you know that story about the earth being full of idiots? .. it is NOT a legend
"There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
The studio might use a package layout that is close enough to the "Games for Windows" layout that buyers might confuse it (and which, if adopted by more devs, undermines the entire brand) but different enough not to get them into legal trouble. Instead of the "Games for Windows" logo there's "Made for Mictosoft(R) Windows(R), Linux 2.6+, Mac OS 10.5+ and PDP-11".
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Well, hardware-wise Linux ports of games usually need about the same hardware as the Windows version. We could simply co-opt whatever Microsoft does to denote computers of a certain power.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Does Live Anywhere plays for sure?
Step 1) Buy Macbook Pro
Step 2) Install Boot Camp
Step 3) Install Windows
Step 4) Enjoy computing nirvana
So what if I have to reboot to play PC games (Company of Heroes is great!). I now have it all in one machine!
There are already utilities like Xfire that can unify the online experience for games - I can see who is online, playing what and join them in whatever game with a click of my mouse.
XFire also does other handy things, like automatically downloading patches for any games I have installed.
XFire is already doing pretty much what Live does on my 360, but it does no more. What I'd really like is a tool that went further and logs the hardware I have installed and brings drivers into the mix. Another useful thing would be auto-setup, if I've got a decent graphics card and like inverted mouse, then why should I have to stick the res up from 800x600 and invert the mouse on every game I play? I know it's only a small thing, but it would be nice.
Yeah. Would you choose a neurosurgeon who pokes around people's brains in his spare time? I wouldn't.
*ding-ding-ding* You get the prize!
The OSS community could learn a lot from Microsoft's marketing department. While MS software is not necessarily consumer minded (and some would even say anti-consumer with the current WGA, DRM initiatives, etc.), the marketing & brand-management is incredibly consumer-focused. The vast majority of software released for Windows XP simply restate XP's minimum requirements as their own. When "Uncle Larry" picks up a game on the shelf and sees that it runs on XP or Vista and he knows he has an XP or Vista computer, he will likely feel confident that the software will work on his machine. Most Linux users know their hardware intimately and don't benefit from such association but if the Linux community ever wants to start attracting casual users there will be plenty of new users who have no idea what their specs are and would benefit from a generic designation. If a casual user see a "Linux Blue Game" sticker on the new game on the shelf and knows his computer is "Blue" he would feel comfortable buying the software regardless of his knowledge about the precise specs on his machine.
As a side note- is anyone else seeing the irony that this board is usually foaming at the mouth for standards-support but when MS releases an opt-in standardization scheme for games running on its platform... suddenly standards are evil? For the people complaining about stifling creativity on box art, etc. - do you also complain about stifling the creativity of browser-engineers by forcing them to interpret a DIV tag the same way as the "artist" next to them? And before this gets modded "flamebait", I do understand and support the idea of standard interpretations in HTML/CSS code. I don't understand why anyone would think that a consumer buying product on a shelf wouldn't also benefit from standard implementations of specs, product identity, etc. There's a reason all cereals have their FDA info on the side of the box.
I am currently playing Marvel Ultimate Alliance using a wired X-Box 360 Gamepad, and it is one of the best gaming experience I have ever had. I switch between it an Oblivion. What is interesting is I can do all of this on a Windows XP machine. I can also play MMORPGs on a Windows XP machine. Vista promises a lot of cool stuff, but isn't it really Nvidia and Dual Core CPUs that are the real attraction here? It seems like the are making DX10 Vista only for no good technical reason. Now maybe Live Anywhere has to be on Vista, maybe...
Onward to the Aether Sphere!
Actually, one could even take a two-tiered approach. A sticker saying "requires a Common Desktop Standard 2008 (or later)-compliant computer" would be the first approach; another way to deal with the masses of Linux configurations would be a common tool that assesses the computer's abilities and allows the user to compare them to a list of Linux software, generating a list of notices. If the software requires libpwnage-1.6.3 and the user has libpwnage-1.5.0 the tool notifies the user to upgrade that package in order to run the game (ie. it red-flags that line). Likewise, if the user has a GPU that only supports OpenGL 2.5 and the game uses some optional OpenGL 2.6 features that line gets yellow-flagged and the user is notified that the game would run, but miss some special effects.
Video game producers could just add their official requirements to the database before the game is released, allowing people to check their system before they go out and buy it - and later the community can refine the values if they're inaccurate.
Most of the hardware detection could be done via a table of known components; unknown components could be determindes via tests (ie. a little 3DMark clone). That way most people could check whether their system will run the game before they go to the store to pick it up.
By the way, thanks for the prize. I thank the Academy and everyone who made this possible, including CmdrTaco.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Windows didn't do anything special for that.
Memory problem were solved when game developer started to use the 32-bits protected mode memory.
Long before Windows 95, this was solved by DOS4GW (for most commercial games), DJGPP (for Quake, and most opensource projects) and some more esoteric hacks (for Ultima VII).
In fact, Windows 95 broke compatibility with some of those games, and wasn't that much new, 32bits mode was already provided by Win32s - a backport from WinNT3.5's Win32 API for Win3.1x.
What slowly Windows succeeded is to make *programmers* life easier :
- 1 single 32bit solution to choose from (instead of several under DOS)
- 1 uniform API slowly emerging for mutlimedia (DirectX under Win95, versus several drivers for sound cards, VESA modes and blitters under DOS)
But from a user stand-point as long as you had a standart sound card (Soundblaster-compatible) and GFX card (VESA 2.0 compliant), running 32bit games was a similar experience.
(Then, much later, hardware accelerated 3D came and made a stronger advantage for Windows 95 : standarised APIs like OpenGL and Direct3D, whereas on DOS, only Allegro provides 3D acceleration in DJGPP with OpenGL and it only works with Voodoo boards, everything else on DOS is proprietary API - like Glide and Speedy3D).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
That's a very interesting point but I'd like to change the subject for a moment. I must ask you about the "Multi-Platform Tit". I'm intrigued by this idea and would like to know where I can learn more about them.
In the past I've spent a pretty penny on items such as this and if the Multi-Platform Tit lives up to the mental picture I'm seeing then you're sitting on a gold mine!
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
Of course it's an extortion scheme! It's Microsoft! There is a difference between boxes saying that the game requires MS Windows (that's actually what the game requires), and MS forcing developers to pay a license fee and conform to their box designs and console-like software rules. I just found it sad to see an article which uses the term "cross-platform" to refer to things that run on BOTH Windows and Xbox. What a sad world we live in where the term means things can run on more than one Microsoft platform.
you know that story about the earth being full of idiots? .. it is NOT a legend
... and they're dense enough to provide 1g surface gravityHorrible impementation of a good idea. PC games must mutilate their interfaces to support a XBox controller? Widescreen? Get out of here.
IMO, the biggest problem with high-end PC games right now is hardware. When I buy a cutting-edge game, I have no idea how is it going to run on my PC. Also, developers spend a lot of money making games to work on hundreds of different setups. What PC gaming industry really needs is something like W3C. Some organization that will suggest standards for gaming APIs and hardware. And I don't mean stupid "standards" like "XP only, we're too lazy to bundle couple of DLLs for win2k". I mean real standards that actually help to buy stuff, not restrict you choice.
Can Microsoft make a Commodore 64/Amiga 500 type gaming system that runs on Windows CE or full Windows Vista software? They would just have to emulate PC hardware to run Windows.
X-Box 360 Live would work wonderfully if it had a keyboard and mouse (wireless or not) for high speed web exploring... add office/HTML software and bingo a new generation of kids using Microsoft products (Brand names do matter you kids).
With Myspace and you tube dominating online media these days, wouldn't it be nice if they used Microsoft products...
Just my 2cents.
The last 4 or 5 games I've purchased I have done so on-line. No box or disks needed or wanted, just download it.
It is successful compared to where it was. Pen computing was not really practical. Battery life was horrible, computers were large, touch screens (or pen screens) were expensive, and system requirements were too small for effective handwriting recognition (though other methods and tricks were used). It failed to really catch on beyond a few niche markets, usually involving digital signatures and really expensive digital tablets for graphic designers and the such.
The market has evolved way beyond that point. Most of the problems have been fixed. While is still a niche market, it has grown. Now that they are relatively cheap, tablets seen a growing market in health care, business, and education. Touch screens are even becoming popular enough that they are being merged with notebooks in the form of hybrids.
Will they ever become ubiquitous, maybe but probably not. But that doesn't mean they are a flop.
Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
I mention Game Tap because this seems to be the direction of gaming in general. With the 360 essentially bringing PC gaming to an easy to use package and things like Yahoo games coming in maybe this is just the writing on the wall: just make it work, don't make me think.
Also, look at all the console games that get ported to PC with little to no work on them. For instance I bought one of the new Metal Gear Solid games (the second one I think) for Windows but it was pretty much impossible to play with a keyboard and mouse and my game pad worked very poorly. If "Games for Windows" standardizes those sorts of ports so I can actually play a game like that I think it's a good idea.
On a semi-related note, has anyone every heard of this? http://www.envizionsinc.com/
"UNIX is very simple, it just needs a genius to understand its simplicity." -Dennis Ritchie
No, it is not an extortion scheme.
1) They arent (and couldnt even if they wanted to) forcing developers package their software like this as you claim. Developers will only take part if they want to. (and they probably will, its certainly to their advantage) Microsoft has never maintained any control over third party developers, its one of the reasons their operating system became so successful.
2) There is no fee as you claim.
Anyone is free to continue developing games and packaging them the same way they do now. You are just slandering Microsoft.
I agree with the referenced post, I just wish my employer would agree with firing up some CounterStrike every now and then =).
So I wonder with greater concern why businesses consider Windows the ideal business desktop environment for the casual employee who needs nothing more than simple spreadsheets or to log into the Java based SAP site to fill out their timesheet.
Ever done a `man` on `top` ?
2. OK sorry, I must have been wrong about the licensing fee. 1. It is "forcing" in the same way that we are all "forced" to use Windows by their monopoly. (I use Linux but I can't get rid of Windows because software, notably games, keeps getting written for Windows!) The thing is, this scheme obviously does have advantages for consumers, which is why developers are sure to jump on the bandwagon. But once all the developers are ON the bandwagon, as usual, it'll be very difficult to get off again. At that point, MS will have all the control, as usual. Once again, there is no immediate "bad side" here (if there was, nobody would use MS products). MS just get their way by providing short term coolness, with a long term lock-in or other negative consequence for the community as a whole. You have seen this in action too many times to deny it.
Don't tell anyone, but I know a certain company where employees organize Quake matches late at night, at work :)
Yeah. Would you choose a neurosurgeon who pokes around people's brains in his spare time? I wouldn't.