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America's Worst Christmas Parties

Ant writes "Slate Magazine asked its readers to submit reports of horrible office Christmas parties, gifts, and bonuses. Of nearly 200 submissions, they've chosen quite a few tales for The Corporate Scrooge Contest Results ... and they're not pretty. From the article: 'A contract consultant sends word that the company to which he is currently assigned recently sent out an e-mail to some 2,000-odd consultants. The company would give away two $100 gift cards--to two of the brave souls who would commit to work 80 hours between Dec. 18 and Dec. 31. As our correspondent noted: "Hey, if you work Christmas, we'll put you in a pool of 2,000 other folks to maybe win a hundred bucks."'"

293 of 406 comments (clear)

  1. Christmas Vacation by Pharmboy · · Score: 5, Funny

    At least it isn't what happened to poor Clark Griswold, getting a "Jelly of the Month" certificate for a Christmas bonus.

    --
    Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    1. Re:Christmas Vacation by HockeyPuck · · Score: 3, Funny
      To quote the great Clark Griswald, what do you say when you get the Jelly of the Month Club?

      Hey. If any of you are looking for any last-minute gift ideas for me, I have one. I'd like Frank Shirley, my boss, right here tonight. I want him brought from his happy holiday slumber over there on Melody Lane with all the other rich people and I want him brought right here, with a big ribbon on his head, and I want to look him straight in the eye and I want to tell him what a cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-ass, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed sack of monkey shit he is. Hallelujah. Holy shit. Where's the Tylenol?
    2. Re:Christmas Vacation by 246o1 · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's worse. A rational consumer would be willing to pay less than a dime for a 1/1000+ chance of $100. You can always give away jelly, if you don't like it, and surely get more than a dime's worth of gratitude out of it.

      --
      Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.
    3. Re:Christmas Vacation by bladesjester · · Score: 1

      I always loved that quote.

      I had the "Hallelujah. Holy shit" portion as my critical error beep for quite a while.

      --
      Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
    4. Re:Christmas Vacation by proxy318 · · Score: 1

      My favorite is the "Kick in the ass of the month club". It's cheap, one size fits all, and since it's homemade it really shows how much you care.

      --
      Saying your "phone ran out of batteries" is like saying your "car ran out of gas tanks".
    5. Re:Christmas Vacation by abbamouse · · Score: 2, Informative

      You mean a risk-neutral consumer. A rational risk-acceptant consumer would be willing to pay more than 10 cents, while a risk-averse one would pay less. People can like or dislike risk and still be rational.

      --
      Make cheese not war 8:)
    6. Re:Christmas Vacation by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      Not in this case. A known reward, with a known chance of entry. THere's a mathematicly correct action. Anyone who would pay more than a dime doesn't understand math, or is irrational (usually the first). Its basic game theory.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    7. Re:Christmas Vacation by Lord+Prox · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My poor father has it pretty bad. He is an architect and puts in around 80 a week (not as an option) and for the second (or is it the third?) year running got a $100 gift car. Not any gift card, mind you, but a gift card to the luxurious Ralph's supermarket.

      It is more of an insult than a "thank you for your team effort". A simple handshake would be better.
      Here is my fathers work
      Bless my Pops. and curse his boss

    8. Re:Christmas Vacation by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      Not to be a scrooge myself, but surely there are enough *real* stories of bad company Christmas bonuses that we don't have to mod a fictional account from a movie to the top spot?

    9. Re:Christmas Vacation by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      And a rational person would not pay more than the expected reward, only = the expected reward. If you pay more than the expected reward, you are losing money on averge, and thus not rational. Although you do make me a profit when I play poker, and I thank you for that.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    10. Re:Christmas Vacation by Hollinger · · Score: 1

      My family and I watch this movie every year on Christmas eve... I always look forward to that little tirade. This is one of the few things I've seen that made me laugh hard enough to cry.

      Here's the video for anyone who doesn't know what the parent poster's talking about:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07SlmpuG4nc

      ~ Mike

    11. Re:Christmas Vacation by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      "My poor father has it pretty bad. He is an architect and puts in around 80 a week (not as an option) ..."

      That sucks. A suggestion?

      Maybe suggest your father, for the New Year, looks for a better job? I'm betting he is salary? There is NO reason to be working an extra 40 hrs for them for free.

      Never work for free.....you time is too valuable.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    12. Re:Christmas Vacation by SirKodiak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The expected rewards and the cost are the utility value of the money, which does not necessarily scale linearly with the dollar amount of the money. To give an extreme example, if I need $1000 today, and otherwise will die a horrible death, but only have $100, and my only opportunity to make money is to play a game which pays $1000 on a $100 bet 1/20th of the time, it would be entirely rational for me to play. In that case, the utility value of $1000 is much more than ten times the utility value of $100.

      Lottery playing is not necessarily irrational even if most people who play the lottery are acting irrationally. While many parts of our society treat the utility/dollar curve as linear for the sake of simplicity, that isn't inherently true.

    13. Re:Christmas Vacation by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      That's a nice building, but man is that picture spooky. It starts fading away like the end of a song, and then BLAM! "Woah, I'm not going anywhere! Thought I was leaving did you? Anyway, I'll just be going now. Off to do some... HEY, LOOK AT ME!"

      Anyway, yeah, I got an e-mail with a crappy PowerPoint attachment playing "So this is Christmas" in the background. Indeed. Didn't let that spoil the mood when I opened the socks from my girlfriend though. Nosiree.. They almost perfectly match the color of the floor in the house I just bought for us, so that's nice... Gives her a plausible excuse for not seeing my feet now.

    14. Re:Christmas Vacation by Lord+Prox · · Score: 1

      Yeah, we keep pestering him to do so, but he is already 67 and is close to retirement so he is just going to stick around and deal with it for a while longer.

    15. Re:Christmas Vacation by SpamBukkake · · Score: 1

      At least Clark got something. I got nothing, zilch, zippo, nada. The joys of being a government worker.

    16. Re:Christmas Vacation by Dabido · · Score: 1

      Buy him a copy of 'The Rabbit Trap' starring Ernest Borgnine. I'm unsure if it's on DVD at all ... not even sure if it is on Video Cassette, but it seems pretty relevant.

      --
      Sure enough, the cow costume was hanging up next to the superhero outfit and sailors uniform. (S,Spud)
    17. Re:Christmas Vacation by Dabido · · Score: 1

      Most companies I've worked for have never given out Xmas bonuses.

      --
      Sure enough, the cow costume was hanging up next to the superhero outfit and sailors uniform. (S,Spud)
    18. Re:Christmas Vacation by Avatar8 · · Score: 1
      A former employer of mine, Computer Science Corporation, did pretty much that.


      IF you attended the Christmas party, you received your Christmas bonus: a canned ham.

      On the upside, they did offer door prizes of a big screen TV, DVD players and a few other electronic goodies. Oh, yeah, for some reason the only winners were the managers, the relatives of the sub-contractor manager and the lady that organized the event. Talk about rigged.

    19. Re:Christmas Vacation by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      I hope he doesn't lose his wife in the process.

      My fiancee left her exhusband because all he did was work ( ... to support his family bla bla). Money is not everything and working for greater finances is only hurting yourself if you have nothing to spend it on.

  2. Cookies by b0b0tiken · · Score: 2, Funny

    Not whining or anything, but I received 2 cookies. They also thoughtfully mentioned they didn't want us to get fat before the holidays.

    1. Re:Cookies by flyingfsck · · Score: 3, Funny

      *Two* cookies huh? So, where is mine???

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    2. Re:Cookies by mabba18 · · Score: 1

      Lucky you! I work in retail, I get NOTHING, execpt shitty days at work, and I'm one of the lucky ones, I get TWO days off.

      --
      The third most important thing I have learned in life: Squeeze anything hard enough and it eventually makes a noise.
    3. Re:Cookies by node+3 · · Score: 1

      We asked for you, but they said they couldn't give a flyingfskck. Sorry.

    4. Re:Cookies by jbrader · · Score: 1
      Yeah I have also worked retail around the holidays. In addition to no bonus you also get the gift of millions of pissed off, rude, surly customers. What is it about christmas shopping that makes people so evil? Ever since then I've always tried to be especially nice to cashiers and sales people around christmas.

      One of the years I was working retail was in the electronics section at a large department store (I won't say which but it rhymes with Fred Buyers), that was even worse. Not only were the customers they're usual selves but I had to try to explain the difference between 2 and 4 head VCRs (this was right around the turn of the century when DVDs hadn't quite taken off yet), whether they should buy a Playstation or a Nintendo 64 for their kids, was this movie any good etc etc.

      --
      You are so boring that when I see you my feet go to sleep.
    5. Re:Cookies by jbrader · · Score: 1
      I don't like to reply to myself but I thought I'd offer another example.

      The last two summers I was an instructor at a computer camp (I will name them it's id Tech Camps, if you're looking for a good computer camp for your kids or some nerdy summer work you really can't go wrong, they're an awesome company. Note that I no longer work for them, this isn't any kind of paid pitch). they give the director of each camp location a bunch of money to treat the other staff at the end of the summer. The first year I was there we all went out to dinner in Seattle and the second year the director used the money to throw a party at her house. In addition we got extra money every week to pay for lunch and the work was a real blast.

      Strange that a big company can't shell out a little to treat permanent employees, but a fairly small company like idTech was happy to spring a little to say thank you to temporary ones.

      --
      You are so boring that when I see you my feet go to sleep.
    6. Re:Cookies by Namronorman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You received two cookies. I was promised two cookies. I am not joking. My boss asked if I had any push pins around, I told her I would give them to her for a freshly baked cookie. She said since it is the holidays she'll give me two and that I'd have them the next day.

      --
      $fortune
      Tomorrow has been canceled due to lack of interest.
    7. Re:Cookies by Tongo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I was really happy with our Christmas bonus this year (I work for a small ILEC, 65 employees or so). The owners had one of the nicer places in town cook up a bunch of salmon and prime rib for our Christmas party. The the president of the company made the rest of the side dishes. In the past when the main course wasn't catered, he also would make the main dish. It's all quite good, as he could probably be an accomplished chef if he didn't like to code so much. During the party they also had drawing and prizes. Each employe we also given $50 cash and a gift certificate for two to the movies in our Christmas card. All in all it's a pretty great place to work.

    8. Re:Cookies by Blikkie · · Score: 1

      My employer knows what it's employees like. This year's Christmas present? A RC helicopter to scare away your pets, and a big New year's party that I'll have to wait for a few weeks, but as far as I have heard from my coworkers my boss knows how to throw a party, so I'm looking forward to it. Last year, when I worked at a cinema, there wasn't a present (or it was so crappy that I can't remember it) because there was a 'recession'.

    9. Re:Cookies by udderly · · Score: 1

      Speaking of retail and bad Xmas gifts, that reminds me of a story.

      I was working retail some years ago and as Xmas approached, one of the assistant managers came around looking for donations for the boss's present. Since I was a relatively well-compensated supervisory employee, it was suggested that $50 would be appropriate, so I shelled out the money.

      Do you know what the manager "bought" the assistant managers and supervisors? A flippin' bottle of Sutter Home White Zinfandel (horrible $4 stuff, it went right down the drain). What's worse is that I noticed that the distributor of that brand was offering a "buy twenty cases, get a free case" discount.

      I walked into the back stockroom and found a pallet with twenty cases of the crap. It took us seven months to sell all of it, but at least my cheapskate-ass boss didn't have to part with one thin dime.

    10. Re:Cookies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
      > I walked into the back stockroom and found a pallet with twenty cases of the crap. It took us seven months to sell all of it, but at least my cheapskate-ass boss didn't have to part with one thin dime.

      Ah, but you have the best present of all. The next time you're at a Christmas party with your boss, you can bump into him when he's talking to his boss, and say "Hey, would you give my boss a raise? My boss is so ignorant about good booze that he thinks Zinfandel is a white wine! Either that or he's a fuckin' alcoholic, you shoulda seen the day he ordered 20 cases of this Sutter Home shit..."

    11. Re:Cookies by udderly · · Score: 1

      My boss is so ignorant about good booze that he thinks Zinfandel is a white wine!

      Ah but half of the people I know think that Zinfandel is that pink crap that is for wine noobs. I love Zinfandel (Cline Ancient Vines Zinfandel is my cost/quality favorite) but every year some good-hearted but misled person gives me the pink stuff. Sigh...

  3. Bah humbug. by IANAAC · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I'll get modded troll for this, but...

    When I was working for corporations, I always expected a bonus, gifts, whatever at holiday time and was nearly always dissapointed.

    Now that I've been working for myself the last couple of years, I don't make as much money as I did with corporations, but I'm generally a happier person, in that I can set my own hours (well, somewhat) and spend more time with my family and friends. That to me is far more useful than any trinket or bonus.

    I've also come to realize that token gifts from the company NEVER meant anything, and was never anything I could ever use - the corporate logo paperweight fits that bill - much like the years of service gifts with the coporate logos on them.

    Sure, when I got bonuses the extra money was nice, but really, it's not something anyone should come to expect.

    Don't expect anything and you won't be dissappointed. They're already paying you to do you job.

    1. Re:Bah humbug. by felix+rayman · · Score: 5, Interesting

      When advice on to how to deal with the current state of the employment market is summed up as, "Don't expect anything and you won't be dissappointed", perhaps it is time for workers to get pissed off, and start doing something about it.

    2. Re:Bah humbug. by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When advice on to how to deal with the current state of the employment market is summed up as, "They're already paying you to do you job," perhaps it is time for workers to get pissed off about people who deliberately misquote summaries.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    3. Re:Bah humbug. by rjshields · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's actually quite sound advice. Take the scenario that you are contracted to a do certain number of hours, but often work over that for whatever reason, and then feel hard done by that you get nothing in return. If you just try a bit harder to stick to those contracted hours, you won't feel so bad. People might also respect you more for not allowing yourself to be treated like a bitch.

      --
      In this world nothing is certain but death, taxes and flawed car analogies.
    4. Re:Bah humbug. by killjoe · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You are right. Every working person should realize that they are just cogs in a machine. You don't matter to your employer, you are just a body easily exchanged for another body or better yet some machine. You should do your job, collect your money and never ever give your employer anything beyond exactly what you are paid to do. By the same token demand to be paid for every minute you work and demand that your employer define exactly what is expected of you so that they are not asking you to do a bunch of stuff for free.

      Remember your company is not a person. You don't owe it anything beyond your time and the terms of your employment. Anything else has got to cost more to your company. Also demand as much money as possible, they will never ever give you a penny above that.

      Finally, unionize. Your employee is trying very hard to reduce your pay as much as possible, you need a way to fight for what you are due.

      It's a war, fight to win.

      --
      evil is as evil does
    5. Re:Bah humbug. by Joey7F · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I am not sure if your post was serious or not (I am leaning towards not) but just in case:

      If you never do anything more / work a minute more than what is expected of you I would like to ask you if you tend to shop at stores that fulfill the simplest of obligations or the ones that have employees which go out of there way to help you?

      The only saying that hard work is its own reward might be a little bit bullshit, but let's face it, you feel better when you do a good job over doing a poor one. The people who view the boss-employee relationship as an antagonistic one seem less happy than those of us that want to be productive but realize we aren't family and that yes, no one is irreplaceable.

      --Joey

    6. Re:Bah humbug. by c0d3m4n · · Score: 1

      Exactly.

      I spent two years with an employer, and was fired when I was asked to cover the work of someone fired first, without any extra compensation, and refused.

      I didn't really mind, however. As easily replaceable as I was as an employee, they're equally disposable as an employer. I suppose that may not apply in all fields, but my experience in the corporate world is that someone will pay you to simply continue to do what you've always done.

    7. Re:Bah humbug. by xeoron · · Score: 1

      I agree...when I briefly worked at Home Depot (college students need money) our store gave us 20 percent off coupons for xmass, while management got huge bonus's. They gave us the gift that would further give to themselves... how thoughtful of them... I hate greedy corporations.

    8. Re:Bah humbug. by monoqlith · · Score: 4, Funny

      Consider yourself lucky. I work for Myself too. My boss, Me, is a real dickhead. This year, he made all of his employees work on Christmas. Sometimes, he makes up reasons to fire people around the holidays, just for fun. Last year, he rented a hotel around Christmas so he could bang his secretary while his wife was at home preparing the holiday meal. He even made a big scene at last year's office event, drove home a little wrecked, and ended up crashing his Mercedes into a children's playground. Man, you should be grateful you don't work for Me. He's a real douchebag.

    9. Re:Bah humbug. by FLEB · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think that it was a serious, albeit overemphasized, considerable reaction to being treated as a simple device. Now, I'll personally say that a job that becomes this antagonistic isn't one worth keeping, but in such an environment, where you're being treated as a nothing more than a work machine, what motivation or obligation should you have to act as more?

      --
      Information wants to be free.
      Entertainment wants to be paid.
      You just want to be cheap.
    10. Re:Bah humbug. by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is no contradiction between doing a good job and only doing what you have agreed to do. If an employer wants employees that will do a good job, then they need to make sure that is part of the employment agreement. For example, as a contractor who bills top-dollar I promise and deliver top-quality work -- my clients are happy with the results and I am happy with the compensation. In fact, that's the underlying premise of free markets - both parties derive value from the transaction and neither party is exploited.

      Furthermore, I do tend to shop at minimum service stores for exactly that reason - no matter how up-scale the store, there is no guarantee of quality of service. I've been screwed over enough times - paying up-scale prices and receiving down-scale service, that I've learned not to play that game any more.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    11. Re:Bah humbug. by tungstencoil · · Score: 1

      So, but what you forget is that many companies now roll bonus and similar items into total compensation. It's not a "bonus" if, in practicality, you're correctly expecting to get it, and "it" is of a certain size/amount. True, an actual bonus should not be counted on, but when it's really some form of periodic lump-sum compensation that gets arbitrarily yanked or changed, it's not enough to say "well you shouldn't count on it".

    12. Re:Bah humbug. by alais4 · · Score: 1

      Um, no... do things beyond what is expected of you... If you always think of your employer as something bent on sucking your life out then you'll never succeed or advance your career or do anything other than replaceable office tedium because of this $$-centered attitude and a fixation on short-term returns.

    13. Re:Bah humbug. by karmatic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wow. Who are you working for? Might I suggest you work somewhere else?

      I've worked 9 to 5 (IT and services), union and non-union (Airlines). Unions have their place, but they are always going to have overhead. When the jobs aren't in horribly short supply, you can typically negotiate way better on your own. Working for America West (union), the guys I worked with would always do the bare minimum of what they were required to do to get paid. The pay took this into consideration, and it wasn't very good. I was there to work (didn't really need the money, but the flight benefits were nice); my coworkers would get ticked that I would take break time to go help out people on other gates. I'm paid to work, not paid to sit around - despite what the union contract said. Merit didn't matter, promotions and pay were based on time served, and it was almost impossible to get yourself promoted, or fired.

      I also went to work for Mesa Airlines (America West Express, same facilities and terminal. Non union.) From what I understand, they weren't allowed to pay more than America West (contractual obligations); however, it didn't really matter. On time for work - $0.25/hour bonus. Working during the summer - $100 bonus. Company did well - $100 bonus. I made way more than any of the America West guys did in the same position, and since my coworkers could be fired, we got a way better caliber employee. Since the union didn't get involved, it was a lot easier for motivated people to make more money, and get promoted. On the other hand, lazy people who are just there to pay their dues do tend to stay where they are.

      Finally, unionize. Your employee[sic] is trying very hard to reduce your pay as much as possible, you need a way to fight for what you are due.
      This, quite frankly, can be stupid advice depending on the state, and the company. I run a software company, and I hate unions with a passion. I'm in a right to work state for a reason (sadly, airlines are covered under the railway act, and can unionize). If you are a competent, hard-working, educated person, with a skill useful enough to justify your salary, you should not (generally speaking - there are some exception) need a union.

      I do take offense to the "trying very hard to reduce your pay" quip. Not all employers are like this, and I most certainly am not one of them. Paying employees the same, regardless of the quality of the work they do, results in disgruntled, unproductive, unhappy employees who do the bare minimum required to not get fired. Why would you want to run a company you wouldn't want to work for? I choose to pay above average rates, for above average service. I'll pay for education, too. Employees who have fun, and are paid well for what they do are less likely to go to the competition, less likely to produce crap software, less likely to steal. I have one employee (a developer) who is utterly irreplaceable. He is one of the top people in his field. He also makes more than I do, because he adds more to the company than I do. I can be honest; he does things for the company that I can't. I have another employee who will be making a $25,000 USD bonus after this last contract we made. That's more than what he made in two years at his last job (not a US guy).

      In short, while I don't know everyone, I do know me (and a few jobs I've worked). Not everyone is out there to screw you; however, large corporations tend to be really large for a reason (and it's not being nice). Learn a skill worth something, and go to work in a field where you can make a difference (whether for yourself, or someone else). Work with a group of people who care about each other, where it's not just about squeezing every last bit of productivity out of an employee before you discard his drained husk.

      Of course, if the economy gets REALLY screwed up, unions may once again serve a useful purpose. When you have college graduates working at McDonalds (nationwide, so moving isn't an o

    14. Re:Bah humbug. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You know... "$$-centered attitude and a fixation on short-term returns" is a description that probably fits 96% of corporations. Oh, the irony...

    15. Re:Bah humbug. by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2, Insightful

      IT workers including programmers are being exploited like you said thanks to third world countries. How can we compete with someone willing to work for $25,000 a year for a job worth $65,000 a year? They can hire 2 Indians and still make a profit if they are not as good.

      Worse any good programmer may still have a job but with the influx of extra unemployeed workers on the market the salary goes down.

      To me unions are no different than corporations getting together and putting caps on the price of workers or price fixing. You guys do it all the time but when employees get together to prevent supply you all have a fit and cry boo hoo.

      Unions are not great and I am not pro union but employees need to excersize market power to prevent our salaries from declining like they have been. MEanwhile corporate profits are at an all time high while wages have fallen every year since 1999.

    16. Re:Bah humbug. by NeuroKoan · · Score: 1

      Just out of curiosity, what makes you think anyone would mod that post as a troll? Its a very well written post with a valid point, nor is it offensive in any way. Not troll material in any way shape or form.

      --

      "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation."
    17. Re:Bah humbug. by killjoe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "If you never do anything more / work a minute more than what is expected of you I would like to ask you if you tend to shop at stores that fulfill the simplest of obligations or the ones that have employees which go out of there way to help you?"

      As a consumer I would rather go to a store that gives me good service. But I am not speaking as a consumer. I am speaking as an employee. As an employee in a store since I am being paid hourly I would rather you go to another store so I can get paid for not helping you.

      "The only saying that hard work is its own reward might be a little bit bullshit, but let's face it, you feel better when you do a good job over doing a poor one."

      That's because I have been brainwashed by companies who want me to work as hard as I can for them for no reward.

      "The people who view the boss-employee relationship as an antagonistic one seem less happy than those of us that want to be productive but realize we aren't family and that yes, no one is irreplaceable."

      Hey you want to know a secret? Here lean in close and I will let you in on it. Here it is.

      Your boss sees your relationship as an adverserial one. He is trying to figure out how to get rid of you and replace you by a lower paid employee or a machine. In the mean time he is trying to figure out a way to make you work for him free.

      --
      evil is as evil does
    18. Re:Bah humbug. by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      Do we need unions to lobby for tax penalties for outsourcing?

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    19. Re:Bah humbug. by killjoe · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Most companies hate unions for the same reason that you hate them. It allows your employees to bargain collectively for what is best for them. You would rather negotiate with each one separately for what is best for you.

      This allows you to pay the absolute minimum in wages in order to get your work done.

      "Employees who have fun, and are paid well for what they do are less likely to go to the competition, less likely to produce crap software, less likely to steal."

      Sure. But they are just as likely to get canned or laid off if you fuck up and lose a contract.

      "At times like that, unions can serve a useful purpose, provided they still leave room for profit for the employer. When unions make it impossible for the owner to produce a profit, the company will cease to operate."

      I shed no tears for companies who can't survive without paying their workers slave wages. Besides companies go out of business every day and leave their employees thoroughly fucked in the process. Not just their employees but their customers and vendors too.

      If you read my post I said you should fight tooth and nail for every dime due to you exactly because companies go out of business all the time. Your company doesn't owe you shit and they know that. If the choice was between you or the hotshot programmer you would fire him and not you right?

      --
      evil is as evil does
    20. Re:Bah humbug. by Xenna · · Score: 1

      You're a cog in a machine especially if you think the way I do. If you put your creativity and energy in a job and you're any good, you will be noticed. The company may not be a person but your managers and coworkers are. It's no fun working with a person who just does what's necessary. You won't get far either.

      OTOH, it's a good idea to keep your options open and not to become complacent and trust you company to support you until you retire. Chances are that they won't. You are responsible for yourself, but being to cynical and looking out only for your self will most likely be counterproductive.

      X.

    21. Re:Bah humbug. by tm2b · · Score: 1
      When advice on to how to deal with the current state of the employment market is summed up as, "Don't expect anything and you won't be dissappointed", perhaps it is time for workers to get pissed off, and start doing something about it.
      Like, perhaps getting up off their asses and creating some jobs.
      --
      "It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
    22. Re:Bah humbug. by Underbruin · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Ladies and gentlemen, somebody with no concept of the way the business world works! Fascinating.

      "It allows your employees to bargain collectively for what is best for them. You would rather negotiate with each one separately for what is best for you."

      If you can't see the error in your thinking within that statement, let me fill it in for you. Unions bargain collectively for what is best for the interests controlling the collective (which is quite often very different from the interests of the collective of a whole - just ask Michigan auto workers how they felt about their unions in the 70s and 80s). Negotiating on an individual level allows each employee to demand what s/he feels is the most advantageous work environment/compensation possible. Hard as it may be to believe for somebody as obviously bitter as you, we employees (and yes, I am an employee, not an employer - temp jobs and IT work, FUN!) actually do have bargaining power. Granted this varies by position, but generally, skilled labor is never in infinite supply, allowing the job seeker significant leverage. Aditionally, many employers have recognized this fact and have taken steps to create positive work environments. My current job is a great, community-style environment helping troubleshoot. Previously, I worked in somebody's basement doing paperwork and sneezing because she continuously allowed her cats (I'm allgeric) free reign down there.

      "This allows you to pay the absolute minimum in wages in order to get your work done."

      Only if the employee refuses to do nothing more than the minimum amount of work! The point of hiring an employee is to pay somebody value for his labor that is fair within the job market, but within a job market where the output received by that labor produces more profit than the accumulated costs of that employee charge the business. Paying minimum market wages ensures that the best employees (read: those whose labor is the most profitable) are impossible to hire because they'll simply pass your company over for one that offers better compensation. By offering higher salaries, you are able to recoup those costs through the higher value of the employee's overall work... But even if the employee's extra value added over market is exactly equal to the additional salary you offer over market, there are numerous other advantages to higher-value employees. Better services, better reputation, better investor confidence, etc. These don't immediately show up on a balance sheet, but they're the cornerstones of almost any successful business that grows from the ground up.

      "Sure. But they are just as likely to get canned or laid off if you fuck up and lose a contract."

      The only reason for employees to get fired is if the company is losing money on them. The alternative to being able to fire these employees? Having the company take a loss, which is the first step towards the company going belly-up - and with the higher costs to a business caused by unionization, the problem is usually only exacerbated. If a business goes under, EVERYBODY'S out of a job, not just the lowest-producing members of the workforce. How exactly is that better? You say yourself: "If you read my post I said you should fight tooth and nail for every dime due to you exactly because companies go out of business all the time." You think maybe the reason all those companies are going out of business is because their employees are too busy unionizing and not doing their work, then getting rewarded for it at everybody's expense later? Though I'd hasten to add that is additionally at the company's feet, ultimately, because it's the employer's job to create a work environment were employees feel no need for unionization or the like.

      "I shed no tears for companies who can't survive without paying their workers slave wages."

      *sings* 'If I only had a brain...' Oh, I'm sorry, you're not the scarecrow? It's just, that's such a straw-man, I just assumed... Let's take a look at the parent again: "At times like that, unions can serv

    23. Re:Bah humbug. by aamcf · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I agree with this. I'd prefer to be paid what I am worth through the year rather than have part of my salary withheld to be given to me as a "gift" at the end of the year. I used to work at one place where the Christmas bonus was an open bar at the company dinner - not worth much to someone like me who doesn't drink.

    24. Re:Bah humbug. by killjoe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Unions bargain collectively for what is best for the interests controlling the collective (which is quite often very different from the interests of the collective of a whole - just ask Michigan auto workers how they felt about their unions in the 70s and 80s)."

      What the fuck? Unions exist to get the best package for employees. All the employees. The employees know that if they don't stand together they will be fucked.

      "Negotiating on an individual level allows each employee to demand what s/he feels is the most advantageous work environment/compensation possible."

      This is very good for you because it allows you to pay some people less then others. It may also be good for a few employees who get paid more then average. It sucks for the rest of your employees.

      "Only if the employee refuses to do nothing more than the minimum amount of work! "

      You hired somebody to do X. Now you are going to punish them for not doing more then X. Why?

      "But even if the employee's extra value added over market is exactly equal to the additional salary you offer over market, there are numerous other advantages to higher-value employees. Better services, better reputation, better investor confidence, etc. These don't immediately show up on a balance sheet, but they're the cornerstones of almost any successful business that grows from the ground up."

      Well pollyanna how come every business isn't doing that? How come service sucks no matter where you go? I tell you why because people don't believe the line of bullshit you are spewing. They know they are working for the bottom dollar so they are doing just enough to keep their jobs and obey their work description and no more. WHy should they do more?

      "The only reason for employees to get fired is if the company is losing money on them."

      Really? Is that because management is infallible and never fucks up. The CEO doesn't throw the golf game so the customer drops them, the money dries up, the employees get fired. That never happens?

      Also when was the last time you worked at a company where all the firing was done on merit? Seniority doesn't play a part? Ass kissing doesn't play a part? What world do you live in?

      "Here's a tip - there are plenty of employees who hate unions. I'm one of them. They drive up my taxes by placing unnecessary burdens on business (which ends up getting charged back to us in the form of government subsidies eventually anyway), they make it difficult for me to find work in certain regions/industries unless I join their little cabal, and they often encourage nothing more than complacency and near-zero turnover (again, making it hard for me to find work in certain circumstances). Out of the people I know who work that are in unions or not, those in unions are much more likely to be -content- at work. But they're rarely happy or mentally/emotionally invested. Those people I know who aren't in unions are less likely to be content, but when they are content, it goes beyond that to very happy and entertained by what they do."

      Bingo. Unions suck for you but they are great for employees. That's why everybody who works for a living should join or form a union and that's why people like you work so hard to keep unions out.

      Unions do not exist to make your life easier. That's why you hate them. Unions exist to make your employees life better. That's why they should form or join one.

      Sucks for you, great for them. See? Simple.

      --
      evil is as evil does
    25. Re:Bah humbug. by killjoe · · Score: 1

      "You're a cog in a machine especially if you think the way I do. If you put your creativity and energy in a job and you're any good, you will be noticed."

      You will also be noticed if you dress nice, kiss ass, and chat up the manager every chance you get. What's your point? What happens after you get noticed? Do you automatically get a raise? A promotion? Or will you be passed over for the guy who dressed nice and kissed ass?

      Trust me it's much easier and more profitable to dress nice and kiss ass.

      "You are responsible for yourself, but being to cynical and looking out only for your self will most likely be counterproductive."

      How?

      --
      evil is as evil does
    26. Re:Bah humbug. by Shajenko42 · · Score: 1
      You're a cog in a machine especially if you think the way I do. If you put your creativity and energy in a job and you're any good, you will be noticed.
      Of course your manager might notice you as a threat because you're more competent than him/her, and get you fired.
    27. Re:Bah humbug. by Shajenko42 · · Score: 1

      Apparently.

    28. Re:Bah humbug. by jpkunst · · Score: 1
      Just out of curiosity, what makes you think anyone would mod that post as a troll?

      This will probably be modded troll is a standard way on /. to fish for positive moderations. Seeing that the GP is at +5 insightful right now, it seems to have worked.

      JP

    29. Re:Bah humbug. by snoozerdss · · Score: 1

      You sound like one of those people who only want to do the minimum amount of work for your money. Thats fine thats what unions are for as stated above. Sound like you hate working in general thats fine as well. I like my job, I enjoy what I do. I'm paid well, without unions and I prefer it that way. So you keep on living your life like everyone is out to get you, keep on "just getting enough done" and I'll live a life with a rewarding career I enjoy. Making enough money to do more than just get by in life. Hell, I'll probably get a rise next year for the work I do. NOT for how long I've been here. While you do as little as you can, waiting for that guaranteed raise you get at X amount of years. By then I'm sure I'll have gotten a few more raises or moved on to a better place making better money. Thanks for playing the game called life! You're "getting by" and thats whats important.

      --
      Snoozer.
    30. Re:Bah humbug. by Darby · · Score: 1

      Every working person should realize that they are just cogs in a machine. You don't matter to your employer, you are just a body easily exchanged for another body or better yet some machine.

      I know this is true far too often, but it isn't always true.

      I work for a small privately owned company and it really isn't like that at all.
      I work long hours at times, but I am always offered time off to make up for it. I don't always take it, since I do have a lot of work to do and I actually enjoy what I do.
      I worked about 80 hours the week before I left on vacation (spending the holidays in England with the wife's family) but that was mainly paranoia since I haven't been more than an hour away from the data center for longer than a weekend since I started working there.

      Last year, the whole company got taken to the Rolling Stones in the front section with the exception of a few people who didn't want to go and they were compensated comparably in some other way.
      We get quarterly bonuses and annual stock grants and they're performance based, so those that work harder do get more.
      And heck, since I do have so much work to do, my boss told me before I left that they're getting me a flunky next year (yes, he really said flunky, but he's also fond of calling me "fuckhead" when I screw something up so there is that ;-)

      Anyhow, I don't disagree that everything you said is true somewhere, but there are still places where "the boss" understands that the employees make the business run and keeping them happy is the best way to make sure the business keeps running smoothly.

    31. Re:Bah humbug. by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      There are many jobs, programming is one of them, where two arent' necessarily better then one. If you just moving stuff around, or putting things together, yeah more people is usually better. But for any job that requires thought and planning one good person can be better then 10 decent people.

      Americans have the benefit of understanding the culture, language, and standard expectations. There is no reason someone from another culture should be able to outdo them in the majority of jobs. Unfortunatly alot of amercians don't put use their advantages or they are lazy.

    32. Re:Bah humbug. by karmatic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If the choice was between you or the hotshot programmer you would fire him and not you right?

      You obviously don't understand how a _sensible_ company works. I am an owner in the company - with the exception of a buyout, that's not going to change any time soon.

      That being said, when it comes to salary, I can (and have) gone without, so that the employees can be paid. When times are lean (all companies are startups at some point, and we didn't use VC money), we all make sacrifices. A company without direction doesn't do as well; a company without something to sell withers and dies. Replacing the hotshot programmer with 3 crappy programs (or 8 Indians) would "save money" and increase the amount of code produced, but it wouldn't do our company any good in the long term. If it comes down to me getting paid, or him leaving the company (for not being paid), I will make sure he gets paid. It's not altruism; if he leaves, the future of myself and the company is not as bright.

      That being said, when we had a big contract pay late, I went to the other employees and _asked_ them to take a little less that month so that I could pull out what I needed to take care of myself. They knew how much I was making (pulled about $2k that month), I wasn't screwing them over. Fortunately, those times seem to be behind us now, but it isn't easy starting from nothing. If I'm not paying my employees well, I'm most certainly not paying myself large bonuses.

      Companies aren't people; rather, they are an extension of people. If the owners work for the good of the people in it, rather than just themselves, the company will do better in the long run (why do you think so many companies go under?). Human greed being what it is, I've found the best way to do this is to make the employees owners - when they serve the interest of the owners, they serve the interest of the other employees.

    33. Re:Bah humbug. by Keeper · · Score: 1

      It allows your employees to bargain collectively for what is best for them.

      You'd think that would be how it worked. But it doesn't. It allows the UNION to bargain in THEIR best interest, not the employees'.

      I used to work for Western Union as a part time phone operator/agent during the summer to help pay for college. The union required all employees to pay dues to them. Doesn't matter if you're a member or not, you had to pay dues.

      The union also actively worked to REDUCE the pay for part time employees, and eliminate part time positions. Pay for my job, and my position. Using money I was required to pay them.

      So you'll forgive me if I don't share your utopian vision where Unions are in control of the workforce, and not employers.

    34. Re:Bah humbug. by Darby · · Score: 1


      The question is - are you being compensated appropriately for the value you bring to the company? Workplace camaraderie, company trips and all that are great ways to make employees feel compensated beyond what it really costs the company to provide those things. In other words, they are buying you for pennies on the dollar and making you feel like they are doing you a favor. That is smart business on the company's part, but bad business on your part.


      I thought I was pretty clear that I am being quite well compensated via a salary I'm quite happy with, quarterly bonuses, stock grants and the like. I also mentioned that anybody who didn't feel like going to the concert was compensated in other ways (days off, cash, etc.) I felt like going and I quite like (most of) the people I work with, so while I wouldn't have shelled out that kind of cash (~$500.00 per ticket) to see the Stones on my own, it was quite a good time and I have no regrets. That's hardly pennies on the dollar, although an argument could be made that since I wouldn't have paid that much myself and I could have been more or less comparably compensated in other ways that I did accrue an opportunity cost equal to the difference between the ticket price and what I would have been willing to pay for it.

      Add in the fact that I actually do hang out with my boss outside of work from time to time anyhow since he's quite a cool guy, and the CEO is also very cool to the point that I spent a few work days (i.e. on the clock so to speak) sailing across Lake Michigan on his boat, I considered it quite a good time.

      A year ago I was getting ready to buy a new computer as well. I had it all picked out and was talking to my boss about it (he's a geek too) and he offered to put it on the company. No strings. The final bill when we got done building it (online) was about double what I was planning to spend out of my pocket.

      So while you're right that sometimes lame ass near worthless little incentives are used to attempt to pretend that a company gives a crap about you, there are actually companies that *really* do care that their employees are happy. And me being the employee in this case it's *my* definition of happiness (for me) that I'm using.

      So, I'd say a getting a new computer (pretty well tricked out) out of the blue and a very expensive concert which I could have chosen to skip and still gotten other compensation isn't "bad business" on my part at all. YMMV

    35. Re:Bah humbug. by Phragmen-Lindelof · · Score: 1

      Hmmm ... I'm a university professor and I work many hours beyond the usual 8-5 (without extra pay, of course). (Note: I wrote and then erased some detail about my activities because they don't matter here. Let's just say that I am a modestly well-respected researcher and instructor who get invited overseas on occasion to discuss research and receives excellent student evaluations.) I am a fan of unions in some situations but not in others. In general, I don't like the idea of unions at universities. However, while my opinion has not changed, I think there is a trend in higher education which may make unions more popular on campus. I think university administrators may be getting worse. For example, most universities have some form of written procedures (e.g. "university policies" or "policies and procedures" or "university handbooks" (independent of "faculty handbooks" created by the faculty)). When an administrator makes an interpretation of a university policy which seems contrary to the actual written policy, to whom does one appeal? (I suppose this problem is worse in the business world. Any comments?) With a union, there should be a process by which such disputes are resolved. I know there are AAUP unionized universities and other types of unionized universities and I wonder how these issues are resolved. I am curious about how higher education, the "business world", the "government world" (e.g. DOD, DHS (ha ha), DOI), the "small business world", etc. deal with the problem of having written procedures which are "ignored" using "creative interpretation" by administrators, VPs, managers, bosses, etc.

    36. Re:Bah humbug. by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1
      in a way you're right. I go into jobs looking for a overall yearly amount, not an amount per hour... That way I'm not expecting anything. It's when THEY start brining up OT, bonuses, and such that it gets sticky. Especially at medium sized corporations with good standing in the community, they like to say that a certain part of your compensation is the OT and bonuses so they can offer you a slightly lower than average wage. (not much but one of those, "we're well known so you work for US, we don't PAY YOU to work here" type things.) It's at the end of the calender year that they say you didn't "earn" it, or it's just a "gift" that feelings start to get hurt.

      I always joke to my co-workers that literally EVERY job I've had since I was 16 years old has cut it's bonus/gift/party standard after I started working there... That's 5 long term jobs over 17 years... so my expectations for year-end "korporate indness" are a little low.

      My current job is pretty cool but not immune from that behavior... fortunately, they have a formal bonus program and it pays at certain times based on company performance. (of course always subject to change) The only issue I saw was that they changed the 4th quarter & year end payouts from 2 checks (one at Thanksgiving and one in December) to just 1...in December. Kinda wrecks the Christmas shopping thing. On one hand it's "cool free money" thanks, on the other, if they really care about the employees why are they playing games over saving maybe a dollar by cutting only 1 check.. the bad will is worth more than that. It's a corporate thing to prove their the "bosses" and shake things up. In my experience, that's how the slide starts... I don't hold my breath anymore though so it doesn't bother me. Note: this is also the company that did the whole "pay you less because you get bonuses" thing when I hired on... it always starts with playing with the money.

      I'd have to agree though, I'd rather NOT be promised a bonus at all, perhaps a free turkey or ham (or a token gift card for one), than to have a "gift" turned in to "performance" based on the whim of the company owners. Moral of the story to Bosses... if it's anything other than a formal written bonus plan, don't talk about it... don't promise it... then feelings won't get hurt!

    37. Re:Bah humbug. by Aranwe+Haldaloke · · Score: 1
      Finally, unionize.

      I fail to see what being ionized has to do with anything here.

    38. Re:Bah humbug. by mabhatter654 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      My experience is that it's almost always the BOSS that starts the antagonisms. In corporations it's usually passed down from "on high" as some way to squeeze out the "lazy" employees. That makes it a fight from the top down and always set's up the bad mojo.. because you can't ever PROVE your office/department/etc. isn't the problem.. they'll always find some metric that's off and say they want better.

      It usually starts as "help out the company", get the project done on time... then devolves into you MUST do X amount mandatory "free" work or you're not "dedicated". As soon as the employees start giving out "free" work to get themselves caught up, the corporation immediately will rely on them to do the free work again.... and again... instead of updating their resources for the increased needs they have. I worked one place that pushed that to the limit.. I ended up leaving, but I wanted to "help out" with stuff not my specialty, then it just became "assumed" I would do it whenever with no more pay... or at least the "no more pay" gets forgot about when you go to say the "extra" stuff's not working out and you need somebody else to fill in a while... then it becomes "lazy employee's" fault for failing, "helping out" is almost always PUNISHED, never truly rewarded because it's not what you were "hired" for and somebody "hired" for the position you "helped" in will always do it better than you.

    39. Re:Bah humbug. by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1
      you were probably better off anyway. My experience is that when you do cover work after somebody is fired that is equal or beneath you it just gets added to YOUR job... the company never seems to replace the person even though it was so important to fire them. AND you get blamed because you're now not doing either job as well as before so all the problems are YOUR fault. If there's not money in it, and it's not something you can easily do, then you were probably right not to step up. I did that "fill in" thing for one company and every time I got done being the "fill in" it was always treated with going back to my "lazy" job...

      I thing the problem is that most people aren't good at marketing THEMSELVES and that's what it's all about. You have to write down and prove "on paper" that you did X amount of things requested on-time, X amount with short notice, and X amount as "favors". I notice my boss and other counter parts in my company document and squeal about every little deviation from written instructions. (I always find that as time wasting and distracting to the task) I think geeks in general have it worse because we like to be "useful" but miss that the company "customer" wants to see that we did X number of things that made Y number of $$$$. A lot of time in Geek jobs it involves finding things to make the company more money, or not spend money... so we're tasked with "marketing" to tell our bosses what they need because they don't even know that sometimes.

    40. Re:Bah humbug. by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1
      because there's more full-timers in the union than part-timers. While you may be paid well, you're still filling a spot as a student, without BENIFITS, that could put food on somebody's table and benefits for their family... In reality, your "real wage" was probably about 25%-33% of what a full-timer's wage was after vacation, benefits, pension, etc. is figured in. It's not in the Union's interest to have too many part-time employees... because businesses have a habit of expanding those part-timers to do lots of other stuff... while letting the Union be the bad guys because they "fight" about you.

      For all the people that REALLY want to kill Unions! Go to a mandatory 3 week vacation period (transferable between employers, so temps that work 6-9 months at one place but work for years straight can't be denied) for all full time employees (35+ hours) and change the insurance industry to only cover individuals, not companies... so you can take your coverage anywhere just like your car or house insurance. As long as employers have those two strings to attach the ball will always be in their court... you'll always have to "pay dues" of reduced pay & work to "prove" your loyal to the company to be a "real" employee. Hence by the time you find out the "real deal" about how a company pays, you've passed up other better opportunities out of misplaced "loyalty" or "benefits". "Benefits" are the biggest scam in employment practice right now!

    41. Re:Bah humbug. by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      do you think a corporation like GM with 50,000+ hourly workers really gives a damn about individual worker's personal growth... be realistic. Any situation where 20 or less individuals decide the work and well being of THOUSANDS shouldn't be left to chase by not having a union, no small number of non-representative elected people should have THAT much power. And there are far fewer companies than workers, especially when you start measuring hourly workers by THOUSANDS, the market is NOT fair. IF they could sell them all off for slaves, they'd do it. Notice how COMPANIES like to change the LAW when competition starts eating at their pie... they add regulations, bribe lawmakers, anything to avoid actually having to COMPETE for their work... just like "lazy" employees do.

    42. Re:Bah humbug. by mrchaotica · · Score: 1
      If you never do anything more / work a minute more than what is expected of you I would like to ask you if you tend to shop at stores that fulfill the simplest of obligations or the ones that have employees which go out of there way to help you?

      Do you expect to pay more for shoes at one of those "go out of there[sic] way" stores? If so, then you've just proven the O.P.'s point. If not, then you're an idiot who expects to get something for nothing, which doesn't make any economic sense whatsoever.

      There's nothing wrong with expecting an employee to go "above and beyond," but if it is expected then it becomes "normal" and ought to be written into the job description and accompanied by higher pay. It's only fair.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    43. Re:Bah humbug. by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1
      it's nice to have it be a formal program, that's what my company does. Of course, when I hired in they knocked a few grand off my asking because I would get OT and bonus... so far that's worked out OK. But there's always that nagging little thing that corporate likes to say bonuses are a "privilege" to do a little jab at the ole morale. They also do the "free turkey" thing on holidays but that's done as something nominal to be nice.

      Truth is that when it's just the "boss's choice" what bonuses will be is when you have the most trouble. One minute it's "reward" for hard work, the next "favor" depending on what they feel like giving.

      Side note that due to federal law changes Vacation time is going that way as well.. as a "privilege" not a benefit, so companies don't have to compensate you if you can't use it. I noticed my company stopped putting it in employment contracts and instead refer you to the "handbook" (subject to change...) and things should be getting better ....right?

    44. Re:Bah humbug. by niktemadur · · Score: 1

      Don't expect anything and you won't be dissappointed

      In Mexico, the Christmas bonus is guaranteed by law. If you've worked the full year for the company, you are legally entitled to a cash bonus of two weeks' salary, to be given during the course of December, up until the 20th I believe. If you've worked for the company for less than the full year, you are entitled to the proportional amount. And then, on June, the company must share a percentage (I can't remember what the exact figure is) of the previous year's profits with employees. You have to admit that on paper it's a great idea, unless you're the owner of the company, of course, yet consider that many companies throw a dinner party or give a bonus on top of the legally required bonus, so in reality it seems that it's not too much of a strain.

      As a humorous sidenote, there's a chain of three gas stations in my hometown, whose management decided some years ago to throw a Christmas party. After a few too many beers and/or cuba libres, accentuated by the DJ playing fast-paced ranchero music, inter-station rivalries kicked into gear (my station rules, your station sucks, etc), culminating in a spectacular riot, wild west saloon style, with chairs flying about and everything. There was quite a bit of blood and broken noses that night, and still the employees grumbled when there was no Christmas party the following year! Unbelievable.
      Really, you're pissed off because there's no company party this year? Why do you think that is (you moron)?

      --
      Lil' Thindime, lilting a lacrimose lament, krashes the kwaint konfines of Kokonino Kounty
    45. Re:Bah humbug. by Hathor's+Dad · · Score: 1

      "Remember your company is not a person. "

      What if the company is owned by the person who hired you? The one who sits in the same office and does the same job? The one that I do accounts for and know when the "company" is making a profit or loss but still pays me the same?

      I think if I asked my boss to pay me for every second I was on site then he would be upset about me having a cig every couple of hours and take the time off. (Maybe when he was on the road I could not smoke!).

      Cant argue with the value of the union but me n da' boss work best together on BOTH counts!!! hehe! I my experince its better to have what you have than count what you never took!

    46. Re:Bah humbug. by killjoe · · Score: 1

      well you certainly live in a dream world. In the world I live in business like you never get past mom and pop level.

      Why don't you go and see if any of the fortune 1000 run their business like that.

      --
      evil is as evil does
    47. Re:Bah humbug. by jeremyp · · Score: 2, Insightful
      IT workers including programmers are being exploited like you said thanks to third world countries. How can we compete with someone willing to work for $25,000 a year for a job worth $65,000 a year? They can hire 2 Indians and still make a profit if they are not as good.

      If you can easily find people to do a job for $25k then it isn't worth $65k.
      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    48. Re:Bah humbug. by Xenna · · Score: 1

      Hmm, weird. My manager hired me *because* I'm better than he is (not at managing, BTW).

      In my experience, the people who get fired because they're more competent only think they are more competent or - at any rate - are so blinded by their own delusions of grandeur that they're very hard to work with. Firing may be the best medicine in these cases.

      Geniuses are wonderful, but if you can't work with them, they're a liability.

      X.

    49. Re:Bah humbug. by el+borak · · Score: 1
      Unions exist to get the best package for employees. All the employees. The employees know that if they don't stand together they will be fucked.

      Unions are a bureaucracy. The nature of the beast is that they will (eventually) serve the leadership rather than the members. The members exist only to give the leadership the authority/power/money they need to maintain their position.

      As a Pittsburgher who watched the 70's (and 80's) happen here before my eyes, this is not idle speculation. It is observed fact.

      The only place I truly support unions is in areas where safety requires it, such as coal mining. Those guys need all the help they can get.
      --
      An imperfect plan executed violently is far superior to a perfect plan. -- George Patton
    50. Re:Bah humbug. by FLEB · · Score: 1

      That's all well and good if you're in a place that has the means and the motivation to recognize a person for a job well done. There are jobs, however, where good work goes unrewarded by spite, process and bureaucracy, or the fact that there's no real way to reward or promote (I was in one of these once-- a set pay-rate, a simple job, and a unique skill set in the company that meant there was no real advancement path. Luckily everyone knew that, so the job was rather casual, and I could come in and talk candidly with my boss about job interviews I'd had trying to get out of that job.)

      --
      Information wants to be free.
      Entertainment wants to be paid.
      You just want to be cheap.
    51. Re:Bah humbug. by drsquare · · Score: 1

      A bonus is just that, a bonus. It's not something to expect, or depend on. I don't even know why people expect Christmas bonus's at all. Why not an Easter bonus, or a summer bonus?

    52. Re:Bah humbug. by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Guaranteed things for jobs sound like a good idea until you compare the economies of places that do that (mexico) with the economies of places that do not (USA).

  4. Reverse it... by chill · · Score: 4, Funny

    If the company I'm contracted to guarantees me an 80-hour week, I'd happily work it. The time-and-a-half would more than make up for the inconvenience. Hell, *I'd* buy *them* a $100 gift card.

      Charles

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    1. Re:Reverse it... by KingOfBLASH · · Score: 1

      You're assuming that you get paid on an hourly basis. Many of us get paid the same no matter how many hours we work...

    2. Re:Reverse it... by chill · · Score: 1

      No assumption, I was talking about *me*. I do get paid on an hourly basis at the moment. A full 80-hour week would net me over $5K after taxes. I would be so happy.

      [Not as happy as my wife, but then again...] :-)

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    3. Re:Reverse it... by KingOfBLASH · · Score: 1

      Because they have to. Your boss congratulates you on your promotion, then when the shit hits the fan tells you that as a senior member of the team you are expected to work overtime now and then. Then now and then becomes every fucking day.

  5. No mention of HP? by AuMatar · · Score: 4, Interesting

    HP has to be up there. In the four years I worked there, not only was there no bonus, they shut the office down that week, forcing you to either go without pay (even if you were salaried, your pay was docked) or take sick days.

    --
    I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    1. Re:No mention of HP? by jcr · · Score: 4, Informative

      HP docked your pay for the week? Was that a Carly idea?

      Apple closes from December 23 to January 2, and they paid us our regular salary for that time.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    2. Re:No mention of HP? by id · · Score: 1

      Been that way since the mid 90s, why would you stay there?

    3. Re:No mention of HP? by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      If you were docked pay for not being there, you were not salary. Salary means you get paid a yearly amount to get the job done. Many hourly people get confused because companies like quote your hourly pay as if it were a salary. This helps them when they want hourly people to work for free.

    4. Re:No mention of HP? by belmolis · · Score: 1

      What is the legal basis for docking your salary? If you are a salaried employee, they are obligated to pay you so long as you are willing and able to work. If they choose to shut down you can't be penalized for that.

    5. Re:No mention of HP? by digitalunity · · Score: 1

      No legal basis is needed. You base your premise on the somewhat faulty assumption that your employer is required to give you a paycheck every other week. That is simply not the case. It's perfectly possible, and legal, to base a person's salary on a 25 paycheck schedule instead of 26.

      If the company I work for offers me $32k annually, and I make that much by December 15th, there's no rule that says they must pay me through December 31st, whether I work or not. Now, most companies are not like this. However, I did previously work for a company that did something similar, and I assure you, it is legal in my state.

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    6. Re:No mention of HP? by belmolis · · Score: 1

      I didn't make any such assumption because I wouldn't call what you describe "docking salary". Yes, there are employers that pay salary on some sort of irregular schedule. (Many universities theoretically pay you only during nine months, though they usually give you the option of spreading out the paychecks over 11 or 12.) If you get a certain annual salary and the company closes down longer than it used to at Christmas without any effect on the amount of money you receive, they've simply lengthened your paid vacation period; they haven't docked your salary.

    7. Re:No mention of HP? by AuMatar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Did you even have to ask? Of course it was a Carly idea. Note that this idea was after she already asked people with saved time off to use it (and come in to work anyway, thus working for free).

      Sounds like Apple made a classy move. I'll have to keep it in mind for the future.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    8. Re:No mention of HP? by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      I wasn't there last christmas, I can't comment. Before that- we hadn't made Carly's magic numbers for performance (which, amazingly enough, were never published- 20:1 says they didn't really exist) for years. Our bonuses from that were so small it was insulting- I'd rather have not gotten anything.

      As for borrowing- like I said, you had to use vacation or take it unpaid. SO you could use next year's vacation instead. You still had to use vacation, and if you left the company you had to pay it back if you weren't positive.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    9. Re:No mention of HP? by AuMatar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nope, we were salaried. No time cards, no overtime. They did it anyway. Although that makes me wonder about the possibility of a class action....

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    10. Re:No mention of HP? by AuMatar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      To top this off- they make you pay for the Christmas party too. Our division fought that for 1 year, and it came from up high to start making people pay, it demoralized people in other divisions for ours to be free. Amazingly, the number of people going dropped overnight, and the number of engineers who go is almost 0- noone wanted to pay 25-35 for a black tie party with a bunch of people you didn't know. Shocking. Marketing still made an almost 100% appearance rate.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    11. Re:No mention of HP? by Keeper · · Score: 1

      CAT and Boeing also take a paid week off around Christmas.

    12. Re:No mention of HP? by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 1
      Did you even have to ask? Of course it was a Carly idea. Note that this idea was after she already asked people with saved time off to use it (and come in to work anyway, thus working for free).

      No, it wasn't a Carly idea. They first did it back in 1970. Instead of laying of 10% of the workforce, they gave everyone a 10% cut in work (and a corresponding cut in pay). David Packard even talks about it in his book. And they did it again in December of 1998, while Lew Platt was still CEO. From what I've heard it was also done at other various times in between. And also from what I've heard they never really cut the work by 10%. People only had to come in 9 days every two weeks, but they basically still had the same amount of work to do.

    13. Re:No mention of HP? by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      Completely separate deal. I didn't work through either of those (I started work after Carly was CEO), but this was a new idea when I got on- they hadn't done this at Christmas before, according to my coworkers. Since then its become a yearly occurence.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    14. Re:No mention of HP? by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      I think he's right because they count the time as "business closed" time, not vacation. While most salary is quoted by year, I believe the legal standard of salary is by week... so to be legal and not pay you they have to be closed the full, normal work schedule week to count as "business closed" time. The trick doesn't work with only 1 day or 2 as salary employees are weighted on as little as 1 partial day of work a week... if they count you even by day you're not salary.. but like the California case above they did authorize forced use of Vacation time in 4 hour increments (so they have to give you a full or half day off, not just 1 hour for an appointment). But that's about the only budge they've given businesses for salary employees.. and with large corporations trying to get MORE people classified as "salary" I think the DoL is about to crack down even more.

    15. Re:No mention of HP? by jcr · · Score: 1

      Well, retail's an entry-level job, but you are appreciated by shareholders like me. Also, I've seen quite a few people join Apple in retail and move up to running a store, or working in Cupertino within a year and a half of joining the company. I've also seen Mac Geniuses become field engineers. Hang in there, and keep scanning for openings. You'll move up soon enough.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    16. Re:No mention of HP? by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 1
      Completely separate deal. I didn't work through either of those (I started work after Carly was CEO), but this was a new idea when I got on- they hadn't done this at Christmas before, according to my coworkers.

      Well, as I said, they did it the Christmas of 1998, when I worked there, and before Carly did. In Florham Park, New Jersey, not California, if it makes a difference. (The Florham Park site is now closed down; I left in 1999 before it closed.)

  6. Cheapskates! by NoseBag · · Score: 4, Funny

    After meeting or exceeding all of our yearly company goals and setting a new profit level, each of us salaried folks received a bonus envelope with 25 brand-new,consecutively-numbered one-dollar bills in it.

    I still have it, 8 years later. I'm no longer with the company though.

    --
    Cloned foods give the statement "We had that last week!" a whole new meaning.
    1. Re:Cheapskates! by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      After meeting or exceeding all of our yearly company goals and setting a new profit level, each of us salaried folks received a bonus envelope with 25 brand-new,consecutively-numbered one-dollar bills in it.

      I had a similar experience with a bonus all out of proportion with level of "above and beyond" effort I had been asked to put in. That was my wake-up call to go independent.

      Now, when I go "above and beyond" its in my contract and I get paid commensurate with the work I put in.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    2. Re:Cheapskates! by CthulhuDreamer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I used to work for a manufacturing company that promised profit sharing if profits were above a certain amount. For years, they never had to pay out, but it was always mentioned by management as an incentive. Then a really good year came along, and we crossed the profit sharing line with several months to go before the end of the year. Every month, the profits were tallied, and the profit sharing pool grew, and grew.

      December hits, and our company buys another company for 8+ million dollars, in cash. Two weeks later, they pay off some big loans with cash, eating almost a million dollars in pre-payment penalties on top of the loan amounts. The profit sharing pool drops to zero on the last week of the month.

      Christmas comes and they pass out $15 gift certificates for Safeway as appreciation for all of our hard work. Most of the certificates were collected and given to the local food bank as a mass protest. I haven't paid attention to bonus programs or incentive programs since.

    3. Re:Cheapskates! by anaesthetica · · Score: 1

      If you had stayed at the party till 11:00 (the point at which they wheeled the rather large fake cake into the room), you would have found out what the 25 one-dollar bills were used for (when she leapt out of the cake). Cheers!

    4. Re:Cheapskates! by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      you don't happen to be manufacturing CDs or DVDs for the entertainment industry (*IAA) do you!!!

  7. What's the tax situation on corporate gift giving? by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

    Say I give:

    $100
    $100 book tokens.
    $100 gold coins.
    $100 theatre tickets.

    etc. Is it simply the value that matters or does the item itself matter?

    --
    Deleted
  8. What companies give the BEST Christmas Gift? by jsnz · · Score: 3, Funny

    I work for a bank and we get a hamper with Christmas cake, bottle of wine, cookies etc. Not bad considering they give this to about 10,000 employees. What is the best gift you have recieved?

    1. Re:What companies give the BEST Christmas Gift? by The+Living+Fractal · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I work for Big Oil, and this year every employee in the state got a gift worth $450, after taxes. Yep, they paid for the gift via our paychecks, deducted taxes from the additional money (it was like $620 gross) and deducted the $450 after taxes for the gift. I.E. the paycheck was no larger than normal but you got a $450 gift with taxes already paid. I thought that was pretty nice.

      We also received 'end of the year' checks for $1,000 after taxes and our bonus is usually around 10% of our yearly gross (so anywhere from $11,000 to $20,000 for most employees).

      When I take a second to think about it, I really consider myself fortunate. I love this company.

      TLF

      --
      I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
    2. Re:What companies give the BEST Christmas Gift? by Bug-Y2K · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Forty bazillion bucks per quarter in profit, making more money per quarter than any other entity in the history of Capitalism, and they gave you $450?

      --chuck

    3. Re:What companies give the BEST Christmas Gift? by Adult+film+producer · · Score: 1

      The CEO's of big oil come first, the cogs that make the machine work should remember that it's the giving that's important, not the receiving.

    4. Re:What companies give the BEST Christmas Gift? by Junta · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We also received 'end of the year' checks for $1,000 after taxes and our bonus is usually around 10% of our yearly gross (so anywhere from $11,000 to $20,000 for most employees). No, not just $450, a $450 gift plus $1000 bucks, plus a large bonus, and if $11,000 is 10% of their low-end pay.... holy shit nothing to complain about there.

      I think I might need to work in Big Oil now...
      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    5. Re:What companies give the BEST Christmas Gift? by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 2, Informative
      Employees are not (necessarily) owners of public companies. "Extra" holiday gifts are just part of the employment package, one way or the other. If you take a job and don't get any more than your agreed salary, how are you hurt? If you take a job and are told you will get a bonus, how is that "special", and not just part of the deal?

      Employees of public companies can always become part owners too, just like everyone else. Often even cheaper with stock options and employee purchase plans and the like, now that is a real benefit, if you work for a great corporation.

      There is a group of people who think this is a troll, rather than a factual statement of fact. I suspect that group has a large intersection with the set of people who think "sticking it to the man" is a good idea, before the even know who "the man" is.

      --
      This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    6. Re:What companies give the BEST Christmas Gift? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I work for a local supermarket chain and they give their full time associates 80 hours of pay. Part time associates only get 8 hours of pay, but hey, if you're a 16 year old bagger that is definitely better than what 99% of their available jobs would provide. Think of it as free money.

    7. Re:What companies give the BEST Christmas Gift? by McFadden · · Score: 1

      I work in Japan. Today is the first day I've ever worked on Christmas Day. However, the winter bonus is reasonable (1.8 x monthly salary). We also get 1.4 x in the summer too. But practically anyone in a professional job gets a bonus here.

    8. Re:What companies give the BEST Christmas Gift? by iamnobody2 · · Score: 1

      i'm a shift manager at a franchise of taco bell. managers get xmas bonuses ranging from $50-$150 we're not told how the bonus is determined, i got $100, my friend with the same position as me got $75, and he's been with the company three times longer then i have. regular employees don't get xmas bonuses

      --
      nobody's perfect
    9. Re:What companies give the BEST Christmas Gift? by really? · · Score: 1

      Except, of course, in Japan "bonus" is a misnomer. Basically, there you have a yearly income dolled out in twelve monthly parts and two "bonuses". It sucks, and for the MANY years I worked there I made sure to have contracts that don't follow their, IMHO, silly system. I believe I am a better manager of my money than the company is; It worked out REALLY well for me. YMMV, and all that.

      --

      "Consistency is contrary to nature, contrary to life. The only completely consistent people are the dead." A. Huxley
    10. Re:What companies give the BEST Christmas Gift? by MadMorf · · Score: 1

      We don't get as Christmas bonus, but we do get a end-of-fiscal-year bonus equal to the company's profit for the year...

      For example, this year we're on track for an 11% profit, so we'll each get an 11% bonus...

      Last year it was 8%...

    11. Re:What companies give the BEST Christmas Gift? by Spugglefink · · Score: 1

      My bonus is a paycheck for week 53, and a fancy ham.

    12. Re:What companies give the BEST Christmas Gift? by symbolic · · Score: 1

      You're welcome.

    13. Re:What companies give the BEST Christmas Gift? by MartinJW · · Score: 1

      This year I got a 40" LCD TV - not bad considering I've only been there for a year. This is a small company though, and one where the PHB is actually gratefull for time and effort put in - I feel very lucky.

    14. Re:What companies give the BEST Christmas Gift? by runcible · · Score: 1

      This year I'm getting 10% of my salary -- as is every other member of the company, plus I'm getting an extra $5K for some reason -- my boss said that he went to the board and had extra bonus funds released to several people as a "thank you" but I'm not sure what the thank you was for.

      So I'll clear about $20K when the dust settles...if it isn't the best Xmas bonus I have rec'd, it's close.

      --
      remember the wisdom of Mahatma Gandhi: If enough peasants die horribly, someone will probably notice
    15. Re:What companies give the BEST Christmas Gift? by The+Living+Fractal · · Score: 1
      You forgot to thank me and everyone else for paying you.

      Nobody is forcing you to not get a job like mine in Big Oil. I went to school for 2.5 years, got two Associates degrees, did well in my class, and got the job. You can too. And here's the if, and it's a big one:If you want to work in the Arctic (I work a few miles from the Arctic ocean) and are willing to do a shift rotation of 2 weeks working and 2 weeks off. This means you'd probably have to move to Alaska. Or be willing to do A LOT of travel (I know many who live outside and still find it worthwhile).

      Don't want to do that? No? Then don't complain.

      I don't need to thank anybody. I worked for what I have. I knew nobody in the industry, so I didn't have an "in". And I earn my wages.

      TLF
      --
      I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
    16. Re:What companies give the BEST Christmas Gift? by The+Living+Fractal · · Score: 1
      It sounds like you took my reply to your original post as a sign that I was jealous of your situation. I'm not.

      Didn't mean to imply jealousy on your part. I just thought you should know nothing has been handed to me on a silver spoon.

      The oil companies raise gasoline prices in anticipation of a coming hurricane despite the fact the hurricane won't instantaneously affect supply to the consumer...

      Actually, it was gasoline stations who raised gasoline prices, based on oil futures. This is standard practice in an open market. If you think your gold is going to be rarer in the future because there won't be as much gold produced do you think you'd be willing to sell it for the current price, or would you start asking for more based on your knowledge? In other words if you still sold it at market price, knowing it was going to be worth more in the future, you aren't a very apt businessperson, are you?

      No evil oil executives were sitting back in their huge chairs thinking about how they can squeeze more out of the consumer. Supply and demand, nothing else, is what caused the prices to inflate. And in case you haven't noticed, the supply of oil is probably the single largest contributing factor to economic change worldwide -- so when there's a possibility of something in the near future coming that can affect that supply I think you better understand that there will be a reaction.

      So there is no reason I should thank you for buying gasoline at any price, no matter how low or high. My influence on gas prices is zero. In fact, the company I work for has no influence on gas prices except to make them lower if we undercut the market which makes absolutely no business sense because we have no problem selling every single barrel at market price, and it's the second largest oil company in the entire world.

      You think the oil companies are engaged in price gouging. You think we charge whatever we want for oil. Well if you want to talk oil prices, let's talk OPEC (or the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries). Guess what the oil I help produce over here sells for? A price based largely on the prices OPEC chooses as what they consider fair for their member countries. OPEC's member countries hold about two-thirds of the world's oil reserves.

      No, if anything, right now oil is cheaper than it should be. Dwindling worldwide supplies are more than evident, while consumption continues to rise at a great pace. Soon you will see the effects of the supply vs. demand function take it's toll to a much higher level and if you think oil and gasoline is expensive now, just wait. Maybe 10 years or so, possibly less, and you'll be wishing for the prices you have today.

      Unless a better, cleaner, source of energy is found. And guess who is doing most of the research into that? Big Oil. We're not stupid. We know what's coming, and we understand what the future holds for petroleum production companies. It's bleak. We want to be ready when the coin flips. We want to be there to smooth the transition. Otherwise, high oil prices will be the least of your worries. That will be nothing. We're talking World War III.

      TLF
      --
      I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
    17. Re:What companies give the BEST Christmas Gift? by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      the reason to add it to the check like that is not fishy, it's the tax code. Companies can't "give" you anything worth over about 25$ now without claiming it as "wages". Your "gift" was worth $620 (so they could cover the $450 after tax) so that's how they had to write it up for the tax man. With the huge bonuses, they get extra scrutiny that they are following the rules to a tee... YOU would end up with the $170 tax charge (plus interest, penalty, fines if you make $100K+, being accused of "cheating", etc)if the IRS wanted to be asses about it.

    18. Re:What companies give the BEST Christmas Gift? by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1
      It's got a little more "plausible denyability" that... Oil and gas have actual prices, options, futures, etc. at each step of the way. The key is that somebody pays CASH each time the oil changes hands and when it trades "virtually", but it's the Cash points that determine the pump price. IF you notice almost all gas stations are owned by local companies as franchises. "Gasco" doesn't own the same oil from Arabia to the pump with their name on it. Even though it says "GasCo" on the sign it's really not... it's just one guy buying gas. The same with the refinery and the trucker... Each of them have to pay "cash" at market price... as well as "royalties" all along the way to sell "GasCo" gas! The big oil companies have stake in all the steps, but go thru the motions to look like a "free market" Like all good cartels, they got the Feds involved too.. the feds can't Sit on reserves.. they go bad if they're not used so they have to buy and sell to "freshen" the pot. they run the actual refining plants really lean, workers make high wages, and if anything small goes wrong the prices spike..the stupid market pays out every day, unlike other markets where shipments are monthly or farther apart, and that's where they make the money... The whole system is a "right now" system... with a war going on, it's easy to have "trouble" somewhere and due to regulations and such nobody downstream can legally "save up" on you to wait even a few days for the manufactured "crisis" to pass. But it's a "free market" so it's the STATION'S fault they don't find a way to smooth out their wholesale cost curve... I say this because my town has 3 "local" refineries (overlapping sales areas)... but our prices are always $.10 HIGHER than surrounding areas? If it was that way in the bigger city 50 miles away people would squeal.. but here they don't... wonder why?

      It's just like the stock market. The people that make big bucks are the ones that get paid to move stocks every day..with other people's money... not the actual investors. That's why for "real" products walmart came around and made so much money "owning" the product chains!! They sell the price for less, but because they push out so many middle men looking for a cut of the action they can still make more profit per retail unit than the small shops having to play the "game". It's funny that deregulation of the oil industry to make it more "free", just like with telcos and power, has actually made it worse because it removes blame from any one company for high prices or faulty supply problems... after all everybody is paying "market" values so it MUST be "fair"... but all the real profits go to the same hands as they did before the rules were changed!! It's the little guy at the bottom that continually is going out of business as they have to make a profit every day or loose their shirt.

    19. Re:What companies give the BEST Christmas Gift? by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      I was happy one year when I got a bottle of Champagne.

      The thing is, this sort of thing is really fairly inexpensive - $50 or so. It works out to a fraction of an employee's weekly salary, and only has to be given once a year, but some reasonably expensive, slighlty extravagent food or drink is usually appreciated, and rarely offends.

  9. New Years Eve 1999 beat them all. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I worked at Citibank operations, and they made ALL of us peon minions come in and work the ENTIRE night shift, even if we weren't scheduled for that night anyway, just because the stupid stooge suits were paranoid about the overblown Y2K hoax. Under threat of getting fired. Not surprisingly, nobody above the level of floor manager had to be there watching nothing at all happen. That's OK, we enjoyed the evening anyway. And if any of you pointy-haireds are reading this, that pungent stench in the back of the server room actually wasn't a case fan that burned out and had to be replaced.

  10. I give cash by NineNine · · Score: 4, Funny

    I give all of my people AT LEAST $200 in no-strings-attached cash, tax-free in an envelope. And $200 is for a new, part-time employee. I would never dream of giving them a $15 gift card. That's just shitty.

    1. Re:I give cash by jsolan · · Score: 2, Funny

      got any job openings?

    2. Re:I give cash by anticypher · · Score: 1

      One of my best clients did that one year, back in 2002 when the Euro was new. He struggled through the year (beginning of the dot bomb cycle), and managed to be the last company in his industry still in business at the end of the year.

      He gave every one of us who worked for him during the year an envelope with a single 500 Euro note inside. Quite a nice bonus, at a time when the IT economy was really bad. About 45 people, not a small amount for a small company.

      Unfortunately, in the spring of 2003 he was audited, and the undeclared cash transaction caused some serious problems. He still gets audited every 6 months, and I think part of the "don't throw me in jail" agreement he has to do that for another few years. Still, he earned some loyalty from a lot of people, and he can hire easier than most because people want to work for a company like his.

      the AC

      --
      Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
  11. Eh. That's life. by SocialEngineer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I work at a daily newspaper as an artist and web developer (primarily) - high stress, low pay.

    We got $20 Chamber of Commerce gift certificates. Woo. I actually wouldn't care if my hours were decent - while I am supposed to only work 8 hours a day (and regulations state that I can't work more than 6 hours without a break), I have many days where I end up working late when everybody else leaves.

    Take, for instance, the day before Thanksgiving. It started at 9 AM, and went until about 12:30 AM Thanksgiving morning, with no break. 15.5 hours. The overtime sucked, too (thanks to taxes).

    This friday everybody in the office was told that they could leave at 3 assuming the paper was done. Of course, this means that hourly employees lose a couple hours work. Thankfully, though, my day wasn't done - not even close - at 3 PM. Most people left - one of the artists stuck around and helped for a while, but there wasn't much she could do, so she left too. I got home about 7:30 PM.

    Of course, since I'm just a 5 minute walk from the office (I couldn't afford a car and gas, anyway), I'm the one who gets called in whenever something needs to be fixed before the paper can print.

    Hooray. $20 that can only be used locally at select places. That makes me feel really valuable. Sad part is, corporate actually has a policy against Christmas bonuses.

    --
    "Better to be vulgar than non-existent" -Bev Henson
  12. We got a 20% layoff by mediis · · Score: 1

    and to make matters more entertaining... we're also getting more layoffs next month.

  13. At least I got a bonus! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I got $1000 this year (no taxes, just money).
    Last year I got $500.

    I also got a 25% pay raise this year.
    Last year, I got a 33% pay raise.

    I work with computers/IT for a living. Mostly Linux, some windows. I am happy doing the tasks that I have to do at work.

    I got health insurance for me and my wife. I got a company vehicle, and I don't pay for gas.

    I don't have to take drug tests or anything crazy like that.

    I got all this b/c I work for a small business instead of a big corporation. My boss would rather keep my happy instead of trying to find a replacement for me. I think I appreciate my job a little more after reading this article.

    Merry Christmas everyone and sorry if you got a lousy Christmas bonus (or got no bonus whatsoever). I hope you can find a better job that makes you happy.

    1. Re:At least I got a bonus! by freedom_india · · Score: 1

      I agree with you, I should have stayed back at Keene, NH instead of the LARGE city and company i work for now.
      My assumption was larger company == more responsibility and more power. Seems i was wrong.My ex-boss was a nice guy and occassionally dropped me at my home in his station wagon when my car was out at service.
      And when i worked late, we got pizzas, etc.,
      Only thing was there was no chance of progressing upward like becoming an Enterprise Architect or something.

      This LARGE bank i work for is pretty corporate-like. Everything has a process, structure, and everything succeeds at 2nd or 3rd time. They don;t really care if you fail once or twice since it is natural.

      But beyond that i don't know 2% of the people whom i meet everyday in elevators.

      In my old company, everyone knew i was a SG-Atlantis crazy man and in fact gifted me with a paper mache doll as Dr.McKay....

      You are right. Small / Mid companies are more better and filling than these giants.

      --
      "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
    2. Re:At least I got a bonus! by karmatic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My boss would rather keep my happy instead of trying to find a replacement for me.
      Winning formula for small businesses:
      1) Hire competent people
      2) Let them do their job
      3) Pay them well for 2

      I run a small software company, and your boss sounds like he runs things similarly to me. What's the point in having burned out, unhappy employees who work for less than everyone else (usually for a good reason). Makes much more sense to hire good people, and pay them well - ideally sharing in the success of the company either directly (bonus) or indirectly (raise).

      This article has made me appreciate the people who work with me a lot more, too. I'm making plenty - why nickel and dime everyone else? It's certainly not the road to happiness (for anyone).

    3. Re:At least I got a bonus! by tm2b · · Score: 1

      It's also worth treating people as individuals, understanding their individual personalities, and working with them as practicable.

      When I ran a small software company and we were still in the inital product development phase, we didn't have much money. Everybody knew it, and I was spending most of my time finding the money to meet the next payroll. We were located near a small sandwich shop and bakery. What seemed to motive our lead developer most was this: whenever he hit critical development milestones, I'd go out and buy hot, fresh cookies for him (everybody else too, but it was definitely his celebration).

      Silly, perhaps (unless you want to speculate about exploiting basic food-seeking survival and status-seeking neural circuits). But it's good to understand and work with one's best employees' foibles - token acknowledgment can be valuable, if that acknowledgment is sincere. Working with those foibles sometimes had me wanting to put my head through a wall, but we did get the job done.

      Later when we could afford it, that acknowledgment was much more concrete - especially after Red Hat acquired us. We never would have gotten that far, I think, if it hadn't been for stuff like the cookies.

      --
      "It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
    4. Re:At least I got a bonus! by tm2b · · Score: 1
      My assumption was larger company == more responsibility and more power.
      Ouch. As they say, "This is like becoming a bishop to meet girls."
      --
      "It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
  14. We have to pay for our christmas party. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Where I work the christmas party is $35. This year the ticket count was so low that one of the people in charge sent a company-wide email telling people it was in their "best interest" to attend.

    Did I mention we get nothing in terms of bonuses, etc?

    1. Re:We have to pay for our christmas party. by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

      "best interest" = you must and in some states a work place can not make you pay for uniforms / other things needed for your job.

    2. Re:We have to pay for our christmas party. by Thomas+Shaddack · · Score: 1
      (you will have to show a validated plane ticket if you don't want to attend)

      Another use for the fake boarding pass generator?

      How difficult it can be to forge a plane ticket to pass this level of scrutiny?

  15. Re:What's the tax situation on corporate gift givi by jd · · Score: 1

    The item does seem to matter. Corporate execs who buy each other hundreds of dollars of illegal substances and/or activities are rarely taxed or even questioned. The same amount in donated gas mileage expenses (IIRC, NY's comptroller got caught on this one) can cost the person their job.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  16. No alcohol or ciggies at Le Mart de Wal by lee+n.+field · · Score: 5, Funny
    From the linked article:
    offered employees a $25 Wal-Mart holiday gift card, but that the card couldn't be used to buy alcohol or cigarettes.

    I'd blow it on ammunition anyway.

    1. Re:No alcohol or ciggies at Le Mart de Wal by Zak3056 · · Score: 1

      I'd blow it on ammunition anyway.

      Does Wal-Mart even carry .303? :)

      --
      What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
    2. Re:No alcohol or ciggies at Le Mart de Wal by lathama · · Score: 1

      Some do, you would be amazed at what two Walmarts twenty miles apart carry, some times the drive is worth it to find something more in line with what you want. (think windup LED flash lights)

      --
      The GPL, for those that truely understand.
    3. Re:No alcohol or ciggies at Le Mart de Wal by lee+n.+field · · Score: 1
      Does Wal-Mart even carry .303? :)

      :-).

      .303 British is totally outside the scope of what any Wally World sporting goods clerk I have ever encountered would be able to deal with.

  17. Leftover Corporate Paraphernalia by maiku · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Our office Christmas party is typically a potluck lunch in the conference room on a Friday afternoon. The feast consists of meatballs, crappy beer, and way too many pumpkin pies. Each year management offers up a handful of door prizes to keep people from leaving early. This generally consists of pens, tote bags, day planners, and other items all proudly sporting the corporate logo. They sometimes throw in a $25 Starbucks gift card for good measure.

    A few years back I made the mistake of bringing my wife to the party. One of the prizes that year was a company calendar. During the drawing our boss quipped that it was a calendar from the previous year. Well, my wife won, and turns out it *was* a leftover from the previous year. The office admin promised to order a replacement, but of course it never came. My wife left the calendar on the conference room table in protest and vowed to never attend another company event.

    This year was the same meatball spectacular but families weren't invited. Wait, I just thought of my New Year's Resolution!

    Happy Holidays Everyone! :-)

  18. I work in data entry by Corbu+Mulak · · Score: 1

    One of the clients we key is National Geographic, so we got a box set of either DVDs or VHS tapes. To most people it really sucks, but I like that type of stuff so it's okay, I guess. The set I have has 30 Years of National Geographic, Lewis and Clark: The Journey West, Arlington: Field of Honor, Egypt Eternal: The Quest for Lost Tombs, Civil War Gold, and Last Stand of the Great Bear. Still, I would have preferred money.

    1. Re:I work in data entry by Corbu+Mulak · · Score: 1

      Last year I got a pool cue. I looked on ebay, and a couple of people were also selling them, but they were only 15 bucks, so I figured I'd keep it if I ever play billiards.

  19. My Christmas bonus... or lack thereof by XavierKing · · Score: 1

    well.. for my Christmas bonus.. i got an ice scraper and chap stick. i work for a small business though... so i understand where they're coming from... sorta...

  20. feliz navidud by skuzzlebutt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    well, folks, that's the reality of it...I work for one of the companies (think really really big U.S. bank) which tends to be on the cutting edge of cutting (costs, morale, etc), and can tell you that as of the last couple of years, holiday parties and year-end bonuses and gifts are officially outlawed. Not discouraged, not backburnered until things pick up, they are by policy not allowed. Granted, if a group want to get together and have a (dry) potluck and white elephant exchange on their own dimes, the larger corporation will turn their backs on it, provided local management are on board. Them's the brakes, and that's the way the other large corporations are moving on these types of topics: (wholesale expense reductions) > (warm, fuzzy morale muffins)

    --
    My debut novel AMITY now available: http://jeremydbrooks.c
    1. Re:feliz navidud by skam240 · · Score: 1

      honestly i dont have a problem with companies that dont give a bonus for christmas. you're hired for a certain salary and really arent entitled to anything else.

      what i do have a problem with is companies that give out insulting gifts. a buddy of mine working for a mortgage company that was experiencing record profits got him for his employee of the month bonus (i know, not the same as a christmas bonus) a paper bag full of stuff out of the vending machine.

      --
      I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
  21. Can anyone top this? by dheltzel · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My company laid off 1/3 of their employees (including me) 11 days before Christmas.

    Kind of like Ebenezer Scrooge, but without the repentance at the end.

    1. Re:Can anyone top this? by mudimba · · Score: 1

      I've seen this happen at a company I worked for. I think it is actually fairly common and the timing is not coincidental. Many employers look at the Christmas season as the time when they get the least out of their employees (people work shorter days, paid holidays, end of year bonuses, etc.), so if they are going to have layoffs they schedule them for right before the season.

    2. Re:Can anyone top this? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Many employers look at the Christmas season as the time when they get the least out of their employees ...

      Yes, and many employers are actually killer androids from the future, out to terminate as many well-paid employees as possible.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    3. Re:Can anyone top this? by edwardpickman · · Score: 1

      I worked for Disney years ago and they used to like clockwork go through layoffs before the end of the fiscal year to make balance sheet look better then they'd hire new people, at a lower wage, shortly after the beginning of the new fiscal year. It was part of their house cleaning to avoid paying retirement in a lot of cases. I remember the head of the sculpture department who went back to the Disney days got fired three months before his retirement kicked in. He sued them and won. I hope the company got better but back during the height of the Eisner Reich the company was pretty cold blooded and nepotism was pretty much the rule of law. If you ran onto anyone completely incompetent you could gaurantee they were second or third generation mouse.

    4. Re:Can anyone top this? by Travoltus · · Score: 1
      --
      --- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
    5. Re:Can anyone top this? by simontek2 · · Score: 1

      I got fired from Big Blue for saying "Hello" to a VP. Literally we were both outside on a smoke break, I didn't know who he was, went up and introduced myself and a 5 min conversation on How are you, etc. And the Operations manager was pissed That I would dare say hello. I got fired. This happened 2 weeks ago. Its a broke, but good christmas, I think.

      --
      SimonTek
    6. Re:Can anyone top this? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I wasn't disagreeing. I've seen that sort of thing happen and worse, believe me. It's just that I sometimes have a hard time understanding how brutal we can be to each other nowadays.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    7. Re:Can anyone top this? by Travoltus · · Score: 1

      Heh, sorry for taking you the wrong way. Just assume that humans are now preying upon each other and go from there.

      Eventually, though, this system will crash as it saps all the good will from society and remakes people into merciless survivalists.

      --
      --- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
    8. Re:Can anyone top this? by biptoe · · Score: 1

      I can. I was literally putting in a Network in the salt mine in Cleveland. I was 1400 feet below the surface. I received a phone call to go back to corporate in Akron Ohio, one of the "network reps" wanted to talk to me. When I arrived my cube mate had just been canned, and I was next. I worked for a bean counting company and I was last hired first laid off. Luckily I had a good boss and he said if they could turn it around, would I come back. I said yes. Lo and behold 1 year later and 10 k more, I was back, and this Xmas time I wasn't let go because I was the tech on-site at a large financial institution and they needed me. I feel bad for the ones they did let go. It was so humiliating when they had one of management stand about two inches away as I packed my desk. I became sort of a company legend when I in no uncertain terms and deep voice, told this pantywaist to back off and get out of my face. This was humiliating enough. He was my Sales Mgr. a year later and gave me the best jobs.

  22. It's Christmas by edwardpickman · · Score: 2, Funny
    The company would give away two $100 gift cards--to two of the brave souls who would commit to work 80 hours between Dec. 18 and Dec. 31. As our correspondent noted: "Hey, if you work Christmas, we'll put you in a pool of 2,000 other folks to maybe win a hundred bucks."'"

    It's the thought that counts..........Now that I think about it bite me.

  23. You missed the last part. by IANAAC · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I said "They're already paying you to do your job."

    If you wanted or expected more, you should have asked for it up front. It amazes me that people complain about not getting something they didn't ask for in the first place.

    1. Re:You missed the last part. by YU+Nicks+NE+Way · · Score: 1

      Equally, if your employer wanted extra stuff, though, then he or she should be forced to spell it out. It's a two way street -- if your boss is going to work you to death, then you need to be told before you show up that's going to happen.

    2. Re:You missed the last part. by kcbrown · · Score: 1
      If you wanted or expected more, you should have asked for it up front. It amazes me that people complain about not getting something they didn't ask for in the first place.

      If your employer wanted or expected more than 40 hours a week out of you, then they should have asked for it up front. It amazes me that corporations complain about not getting something they didn't ask for in the first place.

      See? It goes both ways. Or, rather, it should. But of course, it doesn't, because employers have far more power over employees than the other way around.

      Even so, unless you believe that corporations are as much in the wrong about expecting more out of their employees than they explicitly ask for up front, you should probably STFU about employees asking for things up front.

      --
      Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
    3. Re:You missed the last part. by Pretzalzz · · Score: 1

      I suggest you tell that to your waitress/waiter the next time you go out to eat.

    4. Re:You missed the last part. by ScrewMaster · · Score: 3, Interesting

      True, but it gets a little tricky. If you're an hourly employee, and you get your hourly pay (including any required or agreed-upon overtime), it's time to STFU. But salaried folks are a bit different. It's often expected (not without reason, depending upon the particular position and its responsibilities) that a salaried employee would put in some unspecified amount of time beyond the basic 40 hours (or whatever that is where you are.) For example, in my job I generally just work my regular hours, but it's expected that if a problem occurs or there is some other transient need that requires extra effort that we'll all pull together and take care of it. That's only ethical behavior on our part (don't want to leave a customer hanging in the wind) and the company is careful enough not demand that kind of plus time too often.

      But yeah, when a company tries to save payroll costs by squeezing its staff too hard, management has no right whatsoever to expect anything resembling loyalty from said employees ... yet it does! That's the amazing thing. Some of these guys honestly don't understand why their people would resent working 80 hour weeks, especially when the managers leave on time every day. The problems start when corporate types begin to see their underlings as "lucky to have a job". Things usually go from bad to worse at that point.

      And once that kind of corporate behavior becomes widespread (which it most certainly has here in the U.S.), employee loyalty drops and turnover increases. Workers feel no particular involvement with the success or failure of their employer, and will leave at the drop of a hat ... and that's only rational behavior because they know that, with rare exceptions, employers cannot be trusted any longer. Corporate America got what it wanted: a ruthless generation of management that considers people to be replaceable components of limited utility, all in the name of more efficiency and lower costs. And when they discovered that we could be replaced with foreign labor at even greater (apparent) savings, they jumped at the chance. The irony is that they screwed themselves too, and we're all paying the price for their inhumanity

      There are a lot of Carly Fiorinas running the show nowadays: the work force is expendable.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    5. Re:You missed the last part. by FLEB · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yep. It's all about replaceable parts. Unfortunately, the parts also realized they could replace themselves.

      --
      Information wants to be free.
      Entertainment wants to be paid.
      You just want to be cheap.
    6. Re:You missed the last part. by Digital+Vomit · · Score: 1
      I said "They're already paying you to do your job." If you wanted or expected more, you should have asked for it up front. It amazes me that people complain about not getting something they didn't ask for in the first place.

      I guess that means tipping a waiter is out of the question then, huh?

      --
      Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
    7. Re:You missed the last part. by Jeremi · · Score: 1
      you should probably STFU


      My 2006 Christmas pet peeve: people who are rude enough to use the phrase "shut the fuck up", but too cowardly to spell it out. Here's a tip: if you don't feel comfortable writing it out, you shouldn't feel comfortable using the acronym either. It's just as rude, and it makes you look inhibited as well.


      bah.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    8. Re:You missed the last part. by psiclops · · Score: 1

      it's not out of the question, but not tipping shouldn't be out of the question either. if a tip is expected they should put it on the bill.

      --
      i spent five minutes thinking and all i got was this crappy sig
    9. Re:You missed the last part. by Kelbear · · Score: 1

      This simple two line-bit of text sounds a lot better than all the pessimistic minimum-effort-required comments I'm seeing. I can understand the reasoning that you shouldn't do more than you're being rewarded for, but this kind of mentality would make me more bitter than I already am. I don't want work to add to my distaste for daily life.

      I'd much rather follow the parent's advice in the hopes that doing such will cause the employer to directly recognize me when I try to apply some "extra-mile" effort to distinguish myself amongst my co-workers. Hopefully this will help me advance until one day I get to be the employer screwing people to the wall instead of being the screwee.

    10. Re:You missed the last part. by archeopterix · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I said "They're already paying you to do your job."

      If you wanted or expected more, you should have asked for it up front.

      Agreed and agreed. But given what you have written above - why do companies organize those insultingly shitty parties? My answer is that they try to make their employees think it is not like that - they are a big happy family and should happily work harder (than the contracted minimum) to keep it this way. And if that isn't a good reason to complain, at least it is a good reason to make fun of. And that's what the article does.
    11. Re:You missed the last part. by Shajenko42 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The problems start when corporate types begin to see their underlings as "lucky to have a job". Things usually go from bad to worse at that point.
      Heh, my boss has said this to me in almost as many words. I'm part time, but she expects me to be on call the entire time the computer lab (where I work) is open. Plus, the lab assistants are college students, but she expects them to fit their classes around the lab's schedule (and is only offering 9 hours a week of work).

      This is why I'm quitting to teach at a community college.
    12. Re:You missed the last part. by HanzoSpam · · Score: 1

      But yeah, when a company tries to save payroll costs by squeezing its staff too hard, management has no right whatsoever to expect anything resembling loyalty from said employees ... yet it does! That's the amazing thing. Some of these guys honestly don't understand why their people would resent working 80 hour weeks, especially when the managers leave on time every day. The problems start when corporate types begin to see their underlings as "lucky to have a job". Things usually go from bad to worse at that point.

      Gee - you must work for IBM too! (Open source advocates or not - those guys haven't made the Fortune 100 list of best companies to work for in years - but oddly enough, Microsoft does.)

      --

      Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.
    13. Re:You missed the last part. by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      a dirt little secret when i actually get to do a restaurant trip i want a few things

      1 my food correctly on time
      2 my glass never gets empty (soda)
      3 the bill is presented to me on time
      4 the bits and bobs are quick (if i need napkins why should i need to ask for them??)

      break that and i tip 25 cents otherwise i tip heavy (karma balancing for the folks)

      I actually had one guy track me down at work and demand to know why i insulted him with a 25 cent tip

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
    14. Re:You missed the last part. by rjshields · · Score: 1
      I actually had one guy track me down at work and demand to know why i insulted him with a 25 cent tip
      There's a clue there. When people are willing to go out of their way to tell you you have insulted them, it's probably with good reason. It's you that loses out in the long term, nobody loves a miser.
      --
      In this world nothing is certain but death, taxes and flawed car analogies.
    15. Re:You missed the last part. by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1
      but that's the "server" game... it became "common" for people to tip, so the Congress put it into wage and tax code... Businesses of course love it because they get help dirt cheap. Servers are legally obligated to claim 8% of every bill as a tip... they DON'T have to claim more and can get "free money" but they also pay social security tax and such that affects long term finances, so it's better to claim actual tips and pay the appropriate taxes. In most places, the "minimum wage" barely covers the tax liability for what a good waitress makes!!!

      Basically a server is considered by law like a "contractor" they service the customers, not the business... so the customers pay them directly based on their "worth". Good servers can make 100$ or more a night even at "cheap" places like Denny's....provided the business does IT's job of providing hot food, quickly in a clean restaurant. Of course when the restaurant is only out $2.35 for a waitress, it's not great incentive to have good service. I have two family members that are servers. On good nites they clean up, as they are very good...they have customers come to the restaurant just to be waited on by them. On nights management screws the business, THEY are the ones that don't get paid, they are the ones that look bad when there's no cooks to make the food! Management got their $10 a plate... it's not their problem that the server got squat. I agree it's a sham that they don't put it on the tab, but it's a business thing to make the price look better. That said, most businesses have started including 15% on larger parties because it requires all of the server's time to wait on them...it would be unfair if the server got nothing.

    16. Re:You missed the last part. by Jeremi · · Score: 1
      I didn't type it just to demonstrate I can, though. You really should shut the fuck up.


      Ah, that's the stuff. Much better!

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  24. Hey, we always get a Christmas bonus... by HanzoSpam · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hell, every year, my company gives us a bonus...

    ....they bend us over a barrel, and then they bone us.

    --

    Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.
    1. Re:Hey, we always get a Christmas bonus... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Hey, at least you get some.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  25. Ah, yes! My first Christmas bonus. by flabbergasted · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I was straight out of graduate school. I took a job in the Northeast, and the company paid all of my moving expenses to relocate me from Texas to Massachusetts. Five and half months later I'm sitting in my office when the vice president comes around to give me a bonus check. Now I wasn't even expecting a bonus, so I was thrilled to get it! Then I opened the envelope and discovered that they had given me a bonus of $2400...from which they then deducted my moving expenses, leaving me with $59. In a matter of seconds, I went from being thrilled to get any kind of a bonus (no matter how small!) to feeling like I had been servered a piping hot bowl of cream of shit soup.

  26. Re:Eh. That's life. by KillerCow · · Score: 1

    My advice: quit.

  27. Union shop == no bonuses by Nate+B. · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I work for a fortune 500 company and am union in IT. I don't have many complaints and the money pays my bills and I have enough left over for toys.

    Each Christmas my immediate supervisor has gotten everyone in my workgroup something, either jackets, small tools, gift certificates, or something useful. For a few years I worked at a division office and the main department management never gave us anything, but they didn't owe us anything either. Since moving home the local manager of the main department sees to it that we get one of the same things they give the members of their department. Again, he doesn't have to do it, but it definitely makes a person feel appreciated.

    However, we don't have anything like Christmas parties and such, though, we do get plenty of paid holiday time this time of the year which is nice. Being union means that their are no performance bonuses for anyone unless everyone gets them and then it would be the same amount. While a sizable bonus would be nice, I'll take steady work and sane hours and good pay throughout the year instead.

    --

    "Insanity is doing the same thing over again expecting a different result."
  28. Our Christmas party... by puppetman · · Score: 1

    was canceled because people half a dozen people were three minutes late to a meeting back in November. One of those meetings where senior management droned on about projections for the next year, presentations they had given, etc.

    It was a no-spouse Christmas party, so I was going to skip anyway, but still - nice holiday spirit.

  29. OfficeMax by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

    Sure, it's retail, but their Christmas bonus was insulting. It was 5% off anything in the store for a period of one week. Which is great except:

    1) Where I worked, sales tax was 8.6%
    2) Who the hell wants to buy Christmas gifts at an office supply store? Criminy.

  30. Re:What is this "time and a half" of which you spe by Dionysus · · Score: 1

    My friend gets paid 2.5 times for working Christmas' Eve and New Year's Eve. He's not in computers, though. (staff at a Norwegian hospital)

    --
    Je ne parle pas francais.
  31. Big Surprise. by macthulhu · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When I worked for a division of the world's largest media company, bonus money was given to middle managers to divide up amongst their staff, including themselves. A few years ago, I saw the email announcing the amount. My manager was given $9000 to divide amongst a department of 11 people. We received half gallon jugs of maple syrup from her parents' farm, she received $9000. The best part was that she failed to notice the stamp across the label that read "Quality Control: Rejected". The next year, it was certificates thanking us for a $10 donation to a local soup kitchen. Apparently, she thinks she's the only one who watched Seinfeld.

    --

    Someday a real rain is gonna come...

    1. Re:Big Surprise. by pwizard2 · · Score: 1

      My manager was given $9000 to divide amongst a department of 11 people. We received half gallon jugs of maple syrup from her parents' farm, she received $9000. The best part was that she failed to notice the stamp across the label that read "Quality Control: Rejected".

      What a bitch. Did the company do anything about that since she basically cut and ran with the money?

      --
      "It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
    2. Re:Big Surprise. by BVis · · Score: 1

      Why would they do anything? They gave her the money with the instruction to distribute it at her discretion. She did nothing wrong (technically.)

      I'm not defending her (she's a selfish bitch, to be sure), but she didn't do anything that the company didn't allow.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    3. Re:Big Surprise. by grommit · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Are you sure she "failed to notice" the stamp? Maybe you got those jugs *because* of that stamp.

    4. Re:Big Surprise. by m0ng0l · · Score: 1

      Heh. That's where everyone in the division slipping into her office after she's left for the holiday a full 1/2 day before the staff (who have to work a full day if they want the pay), and then pouring said maple syrup on her desk, followed by putting a sign on the door for cleaning staff to not clean the office that weekend....

      Then, pinning up on the wall by the door, notices that everyone has quit. She'd have one heck of a surprise come the first workday (she comes back) after the holiday....

      --
      Do you see the FNORDS? I refuse to post anonymously, as I am fireproof!
    5. Re:Big Surprise. by jamesh · · Score: 1

      I suspect that distributing 'rejected' food to employees with a note attached reading 'Best wishes from SomeBigCompany' could put the company in a tricky legal position if someone got sick. If the note read 'Best wishes from SomeTightBitch' then it might be a little different.

    6. Re:Big Surprise. by Travoltus · · Score: 1

      They'd just hire replacements offshore.

      These Christmas bonuses are Capitalism's way of saying "you're expendable, in your face, hahahah!"

      --
      --- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
    7. Re:Big Surprise. by BVis · · Score: 1
      I suspect that distributing 'rejected' food to employees with a note attached reading 'Best wishes from SomeBigCompany' could put the company in a tricky legal position if someone got sick. If the note read 'Best wishes from SomeTightBitch' then it might be a little different.
      Not really. "SomeTightBitch used our name on her gifts without authorization. Our intent was for the funds to be distributed directly to the employees; SomeTightBitch gave these gifts independently."

      Hangs her out in the breeze nicely.
      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    8. Re:Big Surprise. by nomadic · · Score: 1

      Hangs her out in the breeze nicely.

      Companies try that a lot; it's not a very successful thing to do, though. Under the law in most states the company can be held responsible for acts of their employees if those acts are done in the scope of their employment. Giving bonuses to employees falls in that category.

    9. Re:Big Surprise. by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1
      What a bitch. Did the company do anything about that since she basically cut and ran with the money?
      Promoted her, I should expect.
      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    10. Re:Big Surprise. by Shajenko42 · · Score: 1

      She'd likely be one of the ones replaced as well.

    11. Re:Big Surprise. by GWBasic · · Score: 1

      I'd ask her, to her face, what part of the $9000 you will be getting. If she blows you off, make sure to ask her again in your next departmental meeting.

    12. Re:Big Surprise. by macthulhu · · Score: 1

      As you all can probably imagine, any bitch cruel enough to do that to her "team" has endless techniques for punishing anyone and everyone who sticks their necks out. She holds grudges for a very long time, and is responsible for determining who gets what sales accounts... In other words, 80% of her people are wholly dependent on her mood for their livelihood. As long as the team hits their budget, divisional management doesn't put much effort into fixing things. The last three of my ten years there were spent under a different manager, which gave me ample opportunity to torpedo her relentlessly with no fear of reprisal. As a freelance, I still have opportunities to stick it to her, which I never pass up. I keep it subtle, so I'm not just some trash-talking former employee. I'm still friendly with her superiors, so I happen to know that she's on her way out. Good riddance.

      --

      Someday a real rain is gonna come...

    13. Re:Big Surprise. by Avatar8 · · Score: 1
      Very similar to what Nortel Networks did when they were profitable.

      Basically a large sum of money would start at the top. Each president, VP, manager, superviser, etc. would take a slice and pass the remainder down.

      I guess to add insult to injury, they would tell the company how much that lump sum started out at. When you hear numbers like "hundreds of millions" you start to dream of what you could do with a few hundred or possibly a thousand dollars. Nothing short of a kick in the crotch to receive $75 and have it taxed.

  32. My Christmas poinsettia. by mbourgon · · Score: 1

    One year, the company I worked for ended our Christmas meeting with the fact that each of us would get a Poinsettia. Mind you, this was the week of Christmas, and (true or not) the rumor immediately spread that the place we were at was actually going to throw them away after our party, which is why we got them. So our Fortune 500 publishing company (and "howdy" from 38, you know who you are) didn't give out any sort of Christmas "cheer" that year. So I made the best of it... I took the poinsettia, cared for it, fed it, etc, and it GREW, in the corner of my office. And whenever someone mentioned it, I'd tell them it was my "Christmas bonus".

    The next year, all the peons not on the "bonus plan" got a $50 Amex Gift Card. And I got rid of the poinsettia.

    --
    "Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
  33. I give my people stuff by flitelog · · Score: 1

    I'm a QA director at a medium sized business messaging company (~2000 folks). Last year was my first year with the company and we all got a $25 amex gift card. And to add insult to injury, if you didn't use it in 3 months it expired. I buy some things (out of my own pocket) for my 9 staff -- usually some nice wine, gift baskets, and the like. I think its asinine to not give some sort of bonus for the staff. Anyway, Merry Christmas.

    1. Re:I give my people stuff by Sepodati · · Score: 1

      pfft... I'm a mod on some online forum and the admins give us all $25 gift certificates for Amazon. Been doing it for years now.

      Corporations should be giving a lot more than that.

      ---John Holmes...

  34. Entitlement by mulhollandj · · Score: 1

    Are we entitled to great bonuses and parties or are we grateful to have them?

    1. Re:Entitlement by bladesjester · · Score: 1

      I advocate parties under the condition that they aren't opressive or morale dampening in nature (which, frighteningly, a lot of office parties tend to be).

      There is a simple reason - if done properly, they can help raise morale and build team spirit. Unfortunately, the only places that tend to do them properly (if they do them at all) are the ones that already foster good morale and team spirit.

      As for bonuses, they're nice unless they're small and insulting. In the latter case, the company might as well not even bother because it actually dashes morale to find out that your company only thinks you're worth $10 or $20.

      --
      Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
  35. Wait a minute.... by TrappedByMyself · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Atheism is the new cool, but we're still expecting perks for Jesus day?

    --

    Help me take back Slashdot. When did 'News for Nerds' become 'FUD and Conspiracy Theories for Extremist Nutjobs'?
    1. Re:Wait a minute.... by mgabrys_sf · · Score: 1

      Jesus day? What does he have to do with 4th quarter sales forecasts? Last I checked we have orders for more than one temple / church related holiday this month. Oh and GET BACK TO WORK. Elves my ass, we got trucks to load.

    2. Re:Wait a minute.... by neminem · · Score: 1

      Thank you! I recently tried, as an agnostic Jew, to explain this to my not-quite-as-agnostic girlfriend and her Jewish family, as to why my family feels free to celebrate both Hannukah, as a religious holiday, and Christmas as a secular holiday (with Santa Clause as a secular figure, disregarding that he was originally Saint Nicholas). They didn't agree with my opinion; glad someone does.

    3. Re:Wait a minute.... by Dread_ed · · Score: 1

      So you're saying you would give back any monies labeled "Christmas Bonus"?

      And I thought Atheists were smarter than faith-monkeys....damn.

      --
      When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
  36. It's not Jesus day... by Junta · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's a celebration of the Winter Solstice, you insensitive clod.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    1. Re:It's not Jesus day... by lathama · · Score: 1

      Northern Solstice to be correct....

      --
      The GPL, for those that truely understand.
    2. Re:It's not Jesus day... by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      The solstice was on the 21st. The 25th is Mithra's birthday. The Christians just pilfered it.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    3. Re:It's not Jesus day... by drsquare · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you can tell by the name 'Christmas'.

  37. Lucky! by bigdavesmith · · Score: 1

    I'm a student. For the holidays, I get grades, and a bill for next semester. I'd gladly trade that for a 1/1000 chance at a gift certificate, or the jelly of the month, or two cookies, or a bag of hair, or a killer monkey.

    1. Re:Lucky! by bladesjester · · Score: 1

      As I sit here and ponder the fun I could have with a killer monkey.

      Or better yet - a trained war ape armed with a pair of mellon style maces *wicked laugh*

      Though the monkey would probably be cheaper to care for...

      --
      Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
    2. Re:Lucky! by Darby · · Score: 1


      Though the monkey would probably be cheaper to care for...


      I'd think that with the training and the weaponry the war ape would be quite happy to feed itself ;-)

  38. Absolutely. by IANAAC · · Score: 1
    Equally, if your employer wanted extra stuff, though, then he or she should be forced to spell it out.

    Absolutely. Most reasonable people who have been working for a least a little while know to ask (or maybe I'm just giving people too much credit). For example, if you get an offer letter that says your job description may change over time (I actually received one with that phrase), you seriously need to ask what those changes will be. Since they bothered to mention it in the offer letter, they should have no problem telling you what those changes may be. If you don't get the answer you were hoping for, maybe you should reconsider accepting the job.

    1. Re:Absolutely. by YU+Nicks+NE+Way · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's another side of it. There's absolutely nothing illegal or even unethical about not giving a bonus when one has "always" been given in the past; that does not make withholding one during a good year or after exemplary performance, or, worse, offering an insulting one, any less insensitive and crude.

      Just scraping by on the safe side of the law is poor business.

  39. Crappy company bonuses by deadhammer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Last year, I worked for a telemarketer. On Thanksgiving, they gave away turkeys, like good 15 pound turkeys, which is a pretty darned stand-up thing to do. For Christmas they promised all employees in our section a dinner, paid for by the company. The big day comes around, and what do we get? $5.00 certificates for the Italian place in the food court of the mall (the telemarketer's office is in a mall). Bastards.

    At my current programming job, they give gifts to employees yearly. The CEO had us all up to his office for snacks and drinks. This year he gave out what I'm wearing now, which is a rather nice bathrobe (company logos, etc., but they had to specially order them), probably worth well over $75.00. Last year, the employees got jackets. Total cost to the company? Maybe a couple of grand. Increase in morale, including myself? Priceless. See, I don't mind being told "No Christmas bonus/gift because we can't spare the money," I'm totally fine with that. But don't insult me if you're going to give me a gift, I appreciate knowing that the company somewhat cares about me, and isn't just placating me with some meaningless token that they probably got on the cheap because they felt the need to placate the employees.

    --
    I'll be honest, we're throwing science against the wall to see what sticks. -Cave Johnson
  40. How about the bonus they wanted me to pay for? by GodBlessTexas · · Score: 1

    One year, 1999 I believe, while I was working at a large regional ISP, I got a company logo polo shirt as a bonus, as opposed to the $100 cash I received the year before. I thought it was a crappy gift, but it was a very nice shirt. I happened to wear it into work the day the CEO of the company told us all that we'd have to pay for the shirts and it would be coming out of our next paycheck. I told him he could have mine back. It didn't seem to register with him that he couldn't give us a gift and then demand we pay for it. I left a month later for a job that paid over twice as much.

    As a consultant, my firm gave me a $250 gift certificate to Target and a really nice lunch. I spent most of it buying stuff for poor kids and families who needed stuff this Christmas through a local church charity. I figured that I made enough this year and anything I can do to help others is worthwhile. Plus, it breaks your heart when you see a kid asking simply for warm clothes or a jacket for Christmas.

    --
    Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
    1. Re:How about the bonus they wanted me to pay for? by bladesjester · · Score: 1

      I've always applauded people who give a little something back, and usually try to do so myself (Toys for Tots, food for the local soup kitchen, etc). There are years that there isn't a lot to give, but you do what you can.

      About 10 years ago, that gained a bit more of a close-to-home meaning. I met someone who I came to love very much. When she was younger, she was one of the kids that was in that sort of situation for most of her childhood.

      Now every time I give, I tend to think of her.

      --
      Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
  41. Personal Experiances by Demanche · · Score: 1

    I've been with a few companies so far, but this year I am working on contract for a firm in Ottawa, Canada. We are closed Christmas and New Years, so we get those two days off paid. They bought us all Greek take-out platters for lunch the other day, had a draw for 5 sets of movie tickets between 20 people, and draw for a pair of hockey tickets between 8 of us. In all my working for different companies I have never been treated so well, and its not even big things, but at least its better then nothing, or a draw for 1/1000. I even won the movie tickets with a 1/4 chance of winning. Just wish more companies were at least like the one I work for now.... sad knowing the next company will not be so nice.

    --
    Mod me down im a newf (wiki)
  42. Yup. by Weaselmancer · · Score: 1

    And that's how.

    --
    Weaselmancer
    rediculous.
  43. Re:Slipping by Demanche · · Score: 1

    This happened to me while I was working for Sitel

    --
    Mod me down im a newf (wiki)
  44. SAPS! by El+Gruga · · Score: 1

    Bonuses, gifts, little tickets and vouchers for a bag of chips....What is wrong with all you whiners? Dont you see that this is wage slavery and you are going for it? Steal at least $1000 worth of supplies from work and sell them to make your own 'bonus'. Cheat on your expenses. Siphon gas from the company vehicles and sell it to your neighbour on a weekly basis. Sell the company secrets to a rival - get some serious dough going - fight back, you whining saps!

    1. Re:SAPS! by chitokutai · · Score: 1

      Milton wants his stapler back.

  45. Re:No bonus for me, just getting boned as usual. by omegashenron · · Score: 1

    I'm about ready to sell the house and use that money to pay off all my bills, then get a small apartment and flip hamburgers.

    Just don't work for mcdonalds, all they give you is a shitty pen with a mcdonald land character on it.... a different one each year!

    --
    Excuses Are Like Assholes - Everybody's Got One
  46. Try working for the state by jayhawk88 · · Score: 1

    We get jack shit. This year they didn't even let us out our customary 2 hours early the last day; guess they figured with Christmas on a Monday it wasn't necessary. Also, is it just me or does a contract consultant have no right to bitch about not getting any kind of Christmas bonus? My god for what they're probably charging that company, they should be sending the CEO a ham.

  47. Company by Konster · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One company I worked for declined annual raises, then management gave themselves leased Mercedes SUV's as year end bonus. We got calendars.

    Myself and a few others quit the day we heard about the new vehicles.

    1. Re:Company by Penguinoflight · · Score: 1

      Funny, I'd rather ride my bike than a Merc SUV :) Those ML series are so ugly.

      --
      "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
      1 John 4:14
    2. Re:Company by Myopic · · Score: 1

      so that makes you feel like a jackass for working your shitting low-pay job instead of busting your ass for the big money like your bosses?

  48. Re:Sometimes, they have reasons. by Kpau · · Score: 1

    You know... one can justify such bullshit all they want using terms like "publicly traded" and "answer to stockholders" .... but if I had stock in a company and heard they had saved money by not doing oil-changes on their delivery trucks - I'd be selling that stock. Treating your employees like shit just means whatever productivity you got *could* have been much much higher. The corporate concept is just fucking broken (for many more reasons than this one) and needs a serious overhaul (revolution, hang the bastards, whatever).

  49. new year parties by a.bokovoy · · Score: 1

    We used to have New Year parties until local branch has grown up above 1000 people. This year local senior management decided to shut down those parties and asked all departments to take care themselves. Money which used to be spent on parties instead went to local schools as an equipment we produce.

  50. Different experience for me by rdoger6424 · · Score: 1

    I work at a family business, so although there isn't a christmas bonus, there's presents in it for me.
    Also, when I was manning the register yesterday, I happened notice that someone in the navy got a $100 gift credit card valid anywhere, and I heard from them that this was the first year they did this.

    --
    "Hello 911? I just tried to toast some bread, and the toaster grew an arm and stabbed me in the face!"
  51. I got them all beat. by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

    I got fired for Christmas one year. The company that I worked for was a service company. Our account was being cut back. Less than two weeks before Christmas 2003, about 25 people were "let go".

    LK

    --
    "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
  52. I work for Big Oil too... by MachDelta · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...and even though i'm just a lowly warehouse monkey that's only been working there for five months (hey, they let me work around school as I need, and it pays pretty good), I got $1500+ in stuff: A $400 xmass bonus (grossed up for a $400 net, just like yours), $350 in free gas (given as a credit at the companies cardlock), a $250 gift certificate to a grocery store, a hoodie, hat, mug, and a $500 end of year bonus. Hell, the new guy who'd been there exactly FOUR DAYS got a $250 cheque.

    Insanity, but there's just that much fucking money in oil that they can afford to do that.

  53. Must be an American problem by houghi · · Score: 1

    Im Belgium everybody I know gets a 13'th month pay (wich is taxed at 60% or so, but better 40% of something then 50% of nothing). Also we get payed vacation, but that is not very relevant, unless you company closes during the holydays.

    Many companies give some gift as well. I got 6 bottles of good wine (together with all my cow orkers) and other companies give things away as well. I have even once worked for a company where you could choose between a gift or giving the money towards a good cause, like the red cross. You could choose between 5 organisations.

    Also an end of year dinner will be held on a departemental level.

    I also see sometimes that people are negative for what they get. They say it isn't enough or that they do not like it or whatever. I must start writing their names down, because they won't appreciate the gift they get when they have a birthday. The means I won't have to buy them one.

    It is a gift, not a payment. Do you tell you SO or family that you hate the gifts and think they could have bought you a bigger. more expensive one?

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    1. Re:Must be an American problem by aleax · · Score: 1

      """
      Im Belgium everybody I know gets a 13'th month pay (wich is taxed at 60% or so, but better 40% of something then 50% of nothing). Also we get payed
      """
      Yeah, the "tredicesima" ("13th month") is also an ancient, near-universal tradition in Italy, where I come from. Silly, in a way: you get (say) a total yearly gross pay of 78,000 euros -- but instead of getting it as 12 monthly instalments of 6,500 you get monthly instalments of just 6,000... with a double instalment towards year-end. What's the _point_?!

      """
      Many companies give some gift as well. I got 6 bottles of good wine (together with all my cow orkers) and other companies give things away as well. I
      """
      (sigh) I got panettone (the traditional Italian, actually Milanese, Christmas cake, which I don't like and don't eat) and cheap spumante (bad enough that I wouldn't actually drink it) just about every Christmas I was working as an employee in Italy. My current (US) employer gives a cash bonus (crisp bills in an envelope, and they cover the taxes on it) instead, and you know what -- I like it *SO* much more. It's not so much that it's way more than the panettone and spumante would cost me -- it's that I get _whatever *I* like_ with that money, say my own favorite brand of bubbly (Freixenet, a Cava from Catalonia which I adore and happens to be surprisingly cheap even in the US) and cake (in my case, some sugar-free concoction made with Stevia, since I should avoid sugar intake)...

      """
      have even once worked for a company where you could choose between a gift or giving the money towards a good cause, like the red cross. You could choose between 5 organisations.
      """
      My current employer does gift-matching for thousands of recognized charities: whatever I give (up to a pretty large sum), to any one or mote of the recognized charities on their list, they give too. I absolutely love this concept.

      """
      It is a gift, not a payment. Do you tell you SO or family that you hate the gifts and think they could have bought you a bigger. more expensive one?
      """
      When a corporation (answerable to shareholders) does it, it _must_ by law be in the shareholders' interest. So, I'm fully aware that my employer "gifts" me with cash, gift-matching, corporate parties, and all sorts of other goodies, *in the shareholders' interest*: because they think that getting these (relatively small) elements of *compensation* in different forms than the usual paycheck will please me more, help me feel part of a team/family, make me more likely to stay with this employer and strive to recruit friends and acquaintances which will help the corporation make more money still. Being fully aware of this rationale, I nevertheless appreciate the idea when it's well executed, meets my desires, and just plain _works_ -- but when it _doesn't_ work (as in the case of the "panettone and cheap bubbly" packets I used to get a few years ago, when I was a employee in Italy) I'm actually *helping* my employer by complaining (to them -- whining about it in public is no real use, but no real damage either); they could save the money or employ it in more creative and helpful ways.

      Alex

      --
      Alex
  54. one would think working for a bank... by torxim · · Score: 1

    that this guy would understand that his bonus would have federal taxes withheld from it: "When the CEO called me into his office to tell me about the Christmas bonus, I was genuinely surprised with the generosity," writes an employee of a thriving community bank in Florida. "When the deposit came into my account, it was 20 percent less than what he promised."

    1. Re:one would think working for a bank... by bladesjester · · Score: 1

      Some businesses that give out bonuses cover the taxes on it. That's why, when we're told we're getting a bonus of $x, we actually expect to get $x.

      --
      Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
  55. Re:Ah, yes! My first Christmas bonus. by naoursla · · Score: 1

    That's nothing! The first company I worked for deducted the company matched portion of the offered retirement account from the bonus checks.

  56. My uncle got a car. Yup. by really? · · Score: 1

    The lucky stiff got a brand new G klasse - a Brabus tweaked G500 to be precise. Well, he works for himself and just got through a painful divorce, so, he needed something to soothe his pain. (I think I will get married, just so that I can get a divorce ... and have an excuse to spend 150 thou on a car.) The best thing about this is that since he is VERY busy I'll get to drive it a lot ... while I fix my own, cheap ass, G - an old, 1986, GD300.

    --

    "Consistency is contrary to nature, contrary to life. The only completely consistent people are the dead." A. Huxley
    1. Re:My uncle got a car. Yup. by omegashenron · · Score: 1

      I think I will get married, just so that I can get a divorce ... and have an excuse to spend 150 thou on a car.

      Thats if the divorce doesnt cost you all your money.

      --
      Excuses Are Like Assholes - Everybody's Got One
    2. Re:My uncle got a car. Yup. by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      after a divorce he's probably going to LIVE out of that car for a while! Couldn't afford both!! And you have to have transportation to work so getting the car ties up money so the Ex can't have it.

  57. Maybe it's a different field, but... by eth4n0L · · Score: 1

    I work in a different field than most of the people on here, but I actually got a bunch of pretty damn nice stuff for Christmas. I'm a carpenter, working for a small remodeling company. This year, I got a decently nice DeWalt sawzall and drill combo in our "white elephant" game at the Christmas party. Then my boss pulls me aside and gave me a brand new compound miter saw. Come payday, there's an extra check for $150. This all from the gun-toting lunatic who pointed an assault rifle at me the day before, just to mess with my head (it was funny, in context, albeit inappropriate for most of y'all's work environments, I'm sure). The best part is that even though we primarily work in residential remodeling, we have some commercial work coming up next week, so the paychecks continue uninterrupted (construction is seasonal, even in TX, and you HAVE to be ready to miss some work in the winter). I love my job...

  58. Bail by Joebert · · Score: 1

    A few years ago I went to jail for fighting on Christmas Eve, my boss at the time bailed me out & took me to the titty bar on Christmas Day.

    Nothing like going to the titty bar to get you into the spirit of Christmas, soo much giving.

    --
    Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
  59. I work at a not for profit you've heard of by bberens · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Part of the compensation package is a maximum of 4 weeks salary every March. Basically, come tax season, they need to spend all the profit they've racked up so that they can retain their not for profit status. It's almost like government at end of the fiscal year, spend spend spend! Anyways, it's expected and I don't really look at it as the company doing something nice for me. It's just part of the package. Now the surprise was a $25 Regal gift certificate + $10 Chili's gift certificate. Dinner for one and a movie + snacks for two. Not a bad deal. *shrug*

    --
    Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
  60. Re:No bonus for me, just getting boned as usual. by omegashenron · · Score: 1

    Before I started uni, I worked there as crew - promoted to manager (pay increase was only like $2ph - just more hours), then decided had enough of this and quit. All in the space of 6 months

    --
    Excuses Are Like Assholes - Everybody's Got One
  61. No bonus this year by eric76 · · Score: 1

    Every year, we usually get a winter jacket and a sweater.

    This year, nothing.

    It turned out that the employee who was supposed to take care of ordering them didn't order anything and didn't tell anyone about it. The first the president of the company knew about it was at the Christmas party.

    So on Friday, a couple of people sat down and did the ordering for the women up front. I don't think the men are going to get anything at all.

    I have more coats than I need. But it will still bother me if only the women here get anything at all.

  62. Except.. by Twiceblessedman · · Score: 1

    When you attempt to unionize you'll get labelled a communist or a liberal hippie so people would be discouraged to join you. If only others had a brain.

  63. I'll never forget by Gnaget · · Score: 1

    Several years ago, I worked in the web department of an advertising agency with very questionable business practices.

    One year the COO sent out an email to the company informing us we would not be getting bonuses this year because profits had been low. The next day the CEO and President showed up in brand new matching Corvettes they bought for each other. I'm sure my bonus went to one of those tires

  64. Accountants never Skimp on their bonuses and party by skelator2821 · · Score: 1

    Strange huh? Are they the Golden children of the company?

  65. Congratulations! by bscott · · Score: 1

    Years ago I was a field service tech, repairing PCs and laser printers for an office equipment reseller who was the dominant player in the region. One year-end meeting it was jubilantly announced that our department (16 guys) had produced more than $2,000,000 in PROFIT for the year - in gratitude, they gave us each 2 free movie passes.

    (And believe me, that's just the tip of the iceberg with them...)

    --
    Perfectly Normal Industries
  66. Secret Santa by BigBadBus · · Score: 1

    This was on b3ta.com recently. Personally, I doubt whether the old company I used to work for had much Christmas spirit. Read it and weep.

  67. Unions ? by unity100 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Unions are generally just another way for some other parasites to suck on the workforce - this time by 'leading' them.

    Unions and such are not needed. Only thing is needed is the awareness of the 'people'. If people know and accept that some wage is very suckily low, and have the awareness not to go for it (unless they are desperate), there will be no exploit.

    And as for the argument that says 'there always be desperate people', i can say only this : in a civil society there should be no desperate people. If you left out some people to be desperate, you ask for whats coming.

    Check some european countries - there are good social security coverage in some of them - noone is desperate or starving - employers cant exploit nobody.

    1. Re:Unions ? by unity100 · · Score: 1

      Nay. Europe never seen the union activity to the extent united states or canada have experienced.

      Its the social democrat (democrat, in american lingo) governments that have created this result.

  68. We made bonus! Oops, no you didn't. by DeanFox · · Score: 2, Interesting


    How's this for a non-bonus, bonus.

    Working for a fortune 250 company our bonus was based on performance. One year our objective was 32% gross margin. We finished the year with 32.4% gross margin. That meant we made or objective and qualified for a year end bonus. A good one too, like 10% of annual pay.

    The rub. The bonus was considered an expense. To pay the bonus and add it to the B&E would drop us to 31.8% gross margin. So, although we busted our collective asses that year and met our objectives, they wouldn't pay the bonus because to do so would drop us below our objective.

    It gets better.

    Then came a brilliant idea from the management. What if they only paid the exempt managers? A percentage of the managers bonuses were paid from a corporate account. Wa-la. That would only drop our numbers to 32.1%.

    I'll let you guess what happened that year. It was also the year I learned the meaning of corporate.

    -[d]-

  69. 20% less bonus doesn't belong there by PhotoGuy · · Score: 1

    The employee who saw his bonus deposit 20% less than promised, likely was just seeing income tax being deducted from it. Christmas bonuses are like salary, a taxable benefit. Nothing the employer can do about that. Technically, any benefit they give you (e.g. a turkey) is a taxable benefit. (When I was a reasonably high paid developer, here in Canada, I saw christmas bonuses of $5000 be whittled down to $2500 after taxes. It's fact of life, be thankful for the intent.)

    --
    Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
  70. Cheapskates everywhere by AnotherDaveB · · Score: 1

    I don't know about corporate Scrooges but a couple of years ago my brother, who earns over 200,000USD, gave me a multi-function penknife for Chrismas that had been a freebie sample to his company from a clutch manufacturer.

    Ho, ho, ho.

  71. Re:the first hurdle... by gonzo67 · · Score: 1

    First...the tree is so NOT a Christian icon; it is a Pagan icon that has been co-opted by the Christians. 2nd. Lawsuits. If you have a "Christmas" party or celebration, unless you are a Christian company/organization, you may be in violation of federal EEO laws unless you you also have a Hanukkah/Kwanzaa/Yule/Diwali/Bodhi Day/Eid Al-Adha/Solstice parties (I do mean PARTIES...plural). A holiday party is neutral to religion, and still allows EVERYONE who wishes the opportunity to celebrate together. Lastly....Learn a bit about the true origins of the symbols used this time of year, such as hanging mistletoe, holly, etc. You may be surprised that "Christmas" is NOT the reason.

  72. beats by waspleg · · Score: 1

    uhm.. beats nothing; which according to the manheim steamroller christmas thing on the radio all day at work, is what most people get , as the christmas bonus was started by woolworth's $5 a year (i think they said something $110 in today's money) with a 5 year cap and was widely copied later but is presently (hoho) dying off.

    waspleg

    1. Re:beats by Shajenko42 · · Score: 1

      Actually many times getting nothing would be less insulting.

  73. Boot To The Head by Ngarrang · · Score: 1

    At least it isn't what happened to poor Clark Griswold, getting a "Jelly of the Month" certificate for a Christmas bonus. Jelly of the Month would be nice compared to getting a boot to the head each month. http://beagleweb.com/fun-taekwanleap.html
    --
    Bearded Dragon
  74. Re:It's not always about "wanting" more by symbolic · · Score: 1

    Some of the examples in the article came across as genuine insults to the intelligence of an average human. Personally, I'd rather get nothing than a "gift" or "bonus" that is insulting or demoralizing. And, for each of these so-called acts of generosity, it might not hurt to ask yourself - "What did the CEO get?"

  75. Unions blow by brunes69 · · Score: 1

    What the fuck? Unions exist to get the best package for employees. All the employees. The employees know that if they don't stand together they will be fucked.

    The key here is the word you missed where I bolded... unions don't exist to get the best package for ALL employees, they exist to get the best package for THE AVERAGE EMPLOYEE. If you are an above average,/b> employee, be it someone who is more skilled or more diven, unions get you the shaft, because they result in union dues being taken from your paycheque for a salary and benefits that are less than you could have negotiated yourself.

    This is very good for you because it allows you to pay some people less then others. It may also be good for a few employees who get paid more then average. It sucks for the rest of your employees.

    For starters, I guess you totally ignored the GP poster when he said that he, like I, am NOT AM EMPLOYER, er we EMPLOYEES, "cogs in the machine". We just happen to hate unions. The union idea that "everyone should be paid the same for the same job" is bullshit because, simply, people are not machines, and . Some do their jobs better, some do their jobs worse. The people who do their jobs worse than the average are obviously not happy and should not be working there in the first place.

    1. Re:Unions blow by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Unions don't exist to get the best package for ALL employees, they exist to get the best package for THE AVERAGE EMPLOYEE

      That would be false. There is nothing about collective bargaining that requires that stars be penalized or ignored as part of the process. Sure, some unions have ended up like that because it is a deceptively easy path to take, but there is no law of physics or man that requires it to be.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    2. Re:Unions blow by killjoe · · Score: 1

      "The key here is the word you missed where I bolded... unions don't exist to get the best package for ALL employees, they exist to get the best package for THE AVERAGE EMPLOYEE"

      You are 100% wrong. Unions allow people to negotiate collectively. If they decide that they should all get paid the same then that's what they will ask for. If they come up with something else they will ask for that instead. The point is that they will decide what's best for them and ask for it and negotiate united for it.

      In no case will the employees ask for something that the employer will like because the employer wants to deal with them individually so they can be more easily intimidated into taking less pay. Remember the employer wants to minimize their payroll and maximize their profit.

      --
      evil is as evil does
    3. Re:Unions blow by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      I think what he meet to say was that Unions often stand for the Status Quo, not necessarily the best interest of the employees. His example of Auto Unions in the 80's is a case of where they needed to adapt their workforces, perhaps start merit based pay scales, but instead fell to keeping the people in the UNION offices employed and political statements.. and not the actual employees they represent. In the auto workers' case, they pushed to keep the same pay for the same work... as that work became obsolete! Like you said though, the business-union relationship doesn't usually work that way... business usually try to exempt the new jobs from the union cutting off those "lazy" employees from moving to higher-skilled work at the company. As a tech related person I've see it time and again where the animosity of Union contracts keeps skilled people from moving up.. and as soon as they do move to the "company" position, they're almost penalized for being in the Union. Just as Unions want everybody to be the "same" it's really businesses that have fell for the gag because they can blame all the union as "lazy" and not offer them more challenging work...both sides are playing stupid here.

    4. Re:Unions blow by wildekat · · Score: 1

      Remember the employer wants to minimize their payroll and maximize their profit.
      Also: remember the employee want to maximize their payroll and minimize their effort.
      By definition, these two rules together create conflict and misunderstanding, and the feeling that the other party is always treating you unfair.

    5. Re:Unions blow by killjoe · · Score: 1

      "Also: remember the employee want to maximize their payroll and minimize their effort."

      Absolutely!

      "By definition, these two rules together create conflict and misunderstanding, and the feeling that the other party is always treating you unfair."

      Yes absolutely. The difference is that one side is the hammer and the other is the nail. If the employer feels like they are being treated unfairly (whether it's true or not) they just fire the employee. If the employee feels like they are being treated unfairly they just have to bend over and let their boss fuck them all the way to the bank. Unless of course they form a union. Once they have a union they can negotiate on equal terms. Till then it's bend over and take it time.

      --
      evil is as evil does
  76. Re:What is this "time and a half" of which you spe by chill · · Score: 1

    I get 1.5x for every hour over 8 in a day and/or 40 in a week. Yes, I'm in IT and yes I live in America (U.S.A.).

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
  77. I got a paycheck and a $1500 bonus check by DarthBart · · Score: 1

    Guess what? They both bounced.

  78. Work harder! by whoop · · Score: 1

    Try working in dialysis, where if you perform exceptionally all year, work plenty of overtime because so many people quit, you just might get the company mandated maximum raise of three percent. Where year-end reviews consist of things like, "Oh, you were late three minutes six times this year .. that's not good. You really need to work on that."

    And merry Christmas, here's a $20 Wal-mart card. Don't spend it all in one place. Company "party" is lunch, a tray of Subway sandwiches. I'd say about 4 or 5 foot-long subs cut up, for about 15 employees. And the sign put up that week suggested those who have the day off come in as well for the festivities. Woot.

  79. Xmas bonus - bah humbug! by Mycroft_514 · · Score: 1

    This years bonuses? Well for Xmas, they catered a lunch for the department. In the big conference room. Thanksgiving? I have worked the last 4 of them. I get a different day off instead.

    The "best" year? The day we came back after Christmas, I was fired. That was the year I had just come back from being out with cancer. The good news is that eventually, I won a lawuit against them, using the ADA law.

  80. Bonus Letter: "You're a Bunch of Morons" by fdrebin · · Score: 1
    My fine story concerns a small company infamous for other reasons.
    One fine year we received a bonus check and a letter in an envelope on Christmas Eve. The contents of the letter (paraphrased) were:

    Blah blah... we didn't meet any of our performance goals this year.
    Blah blah... none of you are working hard enough.
    Blah blah... you're all stupid. You screw up left and right.
    Blah blah... no one cares enough about the company.
    ... 3/4 of a full page of text of more of this.

    Here's your Christmas Bonus.
    Merry Christmas

    Signed,
    Fearless Leader

    Enclo$ure: a nice check.
    What a nice way to invalidate the motivational value of the bonus. At least the cash was nice - something like 2 weeks salary.
    Sometimes I wish I'd kept the letter. Mostly I try to block it from my mind.

    A different year, different company, I was laid off for Christmas.

    /F
    --
    Stupidity... has a habit of getting its way.
  81. Re:My worst Christmas ever by Glonoinha · · Score: 1

    Look in your wallet. There are a bunch of plastic cards that do not have your picture on them. These are called 'credit cards' and they hold the answer to your questions.
    Any 1099 contractor that has managed to score a gig working for Google is going to be pulling down easily $100k per year (annualized calculation for a $75/hr bill rate, after the contract firm gets their cut) and assuming this isn't your first job out of college odds are you have a fiscal history that has enabled you (meaning you have credit, even if there's nothing in your checking account.)

    Consider your credit cards a way to manage the peaks and valleys, pay them off fully when your paycheck comes in, and you will live a richer, fuller life.

    That or consider converting to Russian Orthodox, and marry a nice Russian woman to help you learn the ways of your new religion. One of those 'ways' is celebrating Christmas on January 7th, meaning you get the triple bonus of a) buying all the Christmas decorations at 90% off, b) you get two more weeks to pick up gifts without facing the Christmas rush, and c) ... hey, nice new wife to replace the old one. Works for me.

    --
    Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
  82. Pre-tax gift shams.. by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

    I recently celebrated my 5-year service award with a major multinational. At the 5 year mark, i got to go to a special rewards website and choose one from among several token gifts.. there was a pair of GMRS radios there, so that's what I chose. About 3 paychecks later, I had a deduction of $24 for the income tax on the gift, which means they valued the gift at $95... I went to target at found the same pair of radios on sale for $26.99.
    Hah...

  83. better to skip insulting gifts by kerubi · · Score: 1

    I'm a partner at an IT consulting company that employs >60 people. I've always told my fellow partners that it is better to give nothing than to give something that insults. "what would you think yourself if you got this" is a very good rule. Some examples in that article leads me to think someone forgot that employees are human, not cattle.

    Although this habit of compairing gifts between each year apparent in the article leads me to think that one should never give anything. If you one year decide to spend some extra, do you have to do that every year else employees are disappointed?

    --
    I joined two users too late.
  84. We received a plastic model of our boss by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 1

    I'm not kidding!

    --
    Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
  85. I got... by DaveM753 · · Score: 1

    On December 15th, I got a $250 holiday bonus. Four hour later, they laid me off. Fuckers.

  86. Bah by Cervantes · · Score: 1

    I work for the most profitable division in the country. We set new records this year. Our bonus? The same as it is every year... $25 gift certificates to the local grocery store. Management makes 4 or 5 figure bonuses on top of their 6 digit salaries, but the people who make it happen? $25 christmas bonus, and the mandatory %3 raise every April (which barely keeps pace with inflation).

    I'd rather they just didn't do anything, or made a charitable donation in our names or something. A christmas bonus should be just that, a "oh, wow, nice bonus"... not a slap in the face.

    For comparison, my ex worked at a place that gave biannual bonuses based on profitability. She was there 6 months when she got a bonus equal to an entire paycheck. My roomie worked at the same place for less than a month, he still got a few hundred. The next year, thanks to some hard work and good business, he got a 2k bonus at the beginning of the year, and 5 or 6k at the end... pretty good compared to his 30k wage.

    I don't expect thousands of dollars, but I do think that a bonus should at least be able to buy the turkey for the holidays. If it can't, it just seems like an insult... this is how much we think of your dedicated service. The point of a bonus is that it actually feels like a bonus.

    --
    If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
  87. Opposite Situation: Big Bonuses by TheFlyingGoat · · Score: 1

    A company called Generac, which is 5 miles from where my parents live, just gave out fat bonuses based on how long the people have worked there. It seems like the checks average in the 10's of thousands. Imagine getting a $30,000 check when you're not expecting it.

    Here's the full story:
    http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=544877

    --
    You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. --Winston Churchill
  88. I got laid off. by mhollis · · Score: 1

    It was called Corporate Downsizing but I think it was really a quarterly bonus for the puke who did the deed.

    It was a real class act. I had never met this guy before in my life. He had had several Department meetings on days that I always had off, so I had not had the "pleasure" of meeting him. I just knew his name and knew that he had risen in the corporate ranks by outsourcing the functions done on a distributed basis for the company to a call-in and production center where it was cheaper to hire people for that job.

    I'm still looking for work since the lay-off, despite my obvious and demonstrable skills. Lots of people reliant on my particular skills at my old place of work were very unhappy and were told to just can it or be canned.

    On the brighter side, I was a perma-temp for the company and people still working there are presently being made to work six-day weeks in order to fill in the gaps in their schedules caused by my absence.

    My wife works for a company that recently split. The manager at her level on the other side of the split decided to do an "office party." It started out as cookies, cakes, other stuff to nosh on and everyone would spend a few hours wishing each other politically-correct happy holiday and became ... nothing. The party was apparently cancelled and the manager decided he'd get everyone a bottle of wine instead. Now, I know where I can find a nice corked varietal for about $7 (USD). Let me see... He's probably out some $42 (USD) for the "party." Watch him expense that.

    My wife, on the other hand, dropped something near $400 on a dinner out for one office worker who provides her with occasional assistance and six salespeople and their wives. We personally sprung for a bottle of something (wine had to be at least $20 per bottle and we bought a fair amount of quality harder stuff) and, while we were waiting for our table at a restaurant that did not take reservations, I purchased everyone several drinks and appetizers from the bar at about $180.

    Laid off or not, one should celebrate the sacrifices people make for you. Has everyone forgotten the lessons imparted by Dickens in "A Christmas Carol?"

    My New Year's Resolution: To find a job at a company that is characterized by a true acknowledgement of the hard work and sacrifice of its employees that actually produce.

    Sorry about the rant, it's just the time of year.

    --
    Gods don't kill people, people with gods kill people.
  89. Wow, I just must be lucky. by qdaku · · Score: 1

    Wow. I worked for a short time for a Geological Engineering consulting firm in the field. By the hour work, 84 hours / week, remote location, high stress work, plus additional work needed when problems arose (quite frequently). Was good pay, and remote field work isn't that bad in month young stints --especially when you're a young guy and it's all money in your pocket to pay off debt. Worked for four months, then went to school to get a M.a.s.c. Last week, I got a cheque in the mail for $1500 for a christmas bonus. Well, they just went pretty high on my list of places to apply to when I finish my Master's (in the same field). I couldn't believe a company would do that for just a short-timer like me. Could be the fact that my industry is booming (geological engineering / mining) though.

  90. Re:the first hurdle... by gonzo67 · · Score: 1

    You seem to have no worries about using another religion's icons and symbols and relabeling them. I guess if M$ used Linux and called it M$ Server 2006 you would have no problem? The FACTS show that the CHRISTMAS symbols you name are NOT Christian in origin. And many Christians are realizing that. Why is a holiday party meaningless? You have a problem recognizing that there are MANY HOLY DAYS in the month of December and that MOST people have no problem with a single HOLIDAY party that encompasses them all. YOU may be upset that YOU as a follower of the current majority religion are not allowed to run roughshod over the minority faiths, but remember, yours may not remain the majority faith forever and then what will you do? Attend the Eid party with your Muslim coworkers because they are the majority? Or not attend because it is not your faith's time? Or will you want a more generic holiday party so EVERYONE can attend? And why do you find a HOLIDAY party offensive to your religion? Even the Atheists I know are not offended by holiday parties despite the fact the origin of the word is Holy Day. And please note (as you appear to not know): Kwanzaa is NOT a religious holiday. It is a unique African-American cultural observance created in the 20th Century CE. As far as your concern about the renamed "Christmas" tree....calling it a "Christmas" tree is in and of itself a renaming of it. SO why are you worried about a more accurate name for it? A Holiday tree is perhaps the more accurate name for it. It is used by both Pagans and Christians and Secular groups. Here in the Middle East (where I am currently deployed as part of the US military), you see the trees in the Malls here....and they definitely are not representing the Christian concept of Christmas but the secular concept of the season. I saw the same thing in Korea and Japan while stationed in the Far East over the years. For Jews in the US, Hanukkah has become prominent celebration because of the secular concept of Christmas as a retail boom. But in Judaism, Hanukkah is really a minor holiday (or Holy days as you would seem to prefer). And in these days of mixed religion marriages, many families celebrate the HOLIDAYS because they celebrate more than one religion's Holy Day. Me? If someone wishes me a Merry Christmas, I accept it as what it is usually meant for: a wish for a happy time this time of year. If I know the person is a Christian, I wish them a Merry Christmas. If I know they are Jewish, a Happy Hanukkah. A Hindu; a Happy Diwali. And so on. If I do not know their faith, I wish them a Happy Holiday. I figure I may as well try to be inclusive and not insulting if possible. My coworkers wished me a Happy Yule this year (in their attempts to be inclusive: and for which I am more than grateful for. I appreciate a person who goes out of their way to know me versus those who simply repeat a meaningless phrase because it is specific time of year. Sectarianism, as you seem to want, is why the Shiites are fighting Sunnis in Iraq. Is why Catholics and Protestants have been fighting in Britain for centuries. Is why the Palestinian situation is a major political issue. And so on. I prefer to try and find a win-win situation if possible, and in this specific arena, "Holiday" trees, parties, and greetings is preferred over "Christmas" when the audience is mixed or unknown. And please note: Not all Christians celebrate "Christmas". Or even celebrate it in December even if they do celebrate it at all. So to you, I hope you had a Merry Christmas (because I presume you are a Christian based on your posts, and not of the Orthodox Catholic persuasion, such as Greek, Eastern or Russian, as then you would still have a few weeks to go before your celebrations) and a Happy New Year, and may your God grant you wisdom so you may see that being inclusive will prevent more issues than sectarianism.

  91. Re:bonus? what bonus? by 91degrees · · Score: 1

    I worked for a large chipmaker.

    Bonuses weren't expected or given, but there was a health plan (which is not neccesary, but a nice luxury in Socialist Europe), decent salary, commmitment to limitations on working time and a flexible holiday package.

    You need to find a new job.

  92. Re:the first hurdle... by gonzo67 · · Score: 1

    Dude, are you obstinate just to be so? You complain about the "Christmas" tree being renamed a "holiday" tree, yet ignore the fact it was RENAMED to "Christmas" tree in the first place. It was NOT an original Christian concept (you don't see a lot of evergreen trees in Israel). Not all the songs you seem to think are Christmas carols really are. Some are simply songs about the season ("The Holly and the Ivy, when they are full grown...." is actually referring to Pagan practices). If you were consistent, you would want everything referred to as they originally were!

    As far as "Majority rules in this country".....now you are REALLY showing your ignorance. The US is NOT majority rules, and the Constitution (a document I have spent the past 2 decades supporting and defending against all enemies, foreign and domestic) was created to ensure that was not true. The US is a democratic Republic. The supreme law of the land protects the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

    There is NO war on Christmas. Please read that a second time. YOU are free to celebrate any way YOU see fit. Where has ANYONE prevented YOU from celebrating YOUR holiday? YOU complain about other faiths intruding on YOUR Holy day, but see no problem with FORCING others to celebrate or suffer yours. You, to put it simply, are a hypocrite. You (and other Christians of your ilk) have created this fictitious "War on Christmas" because the majority are no longer under your control. I guess if you want majority rules, it appears the majority has spoken. So I guess you should STFU and quit whining.

    And offering an alternative to Christmas as Kwanzaa does, does not impact those who wish to celebrate Christmas. Unless your belief is weak, what is the issue? Or are you saying that Christianity is so weak in its basis that any deviation and failure to follow it by everyone will cause it to fail as a faith and eventually disappear? If that is true, then perhaps it needs to die and go away. Any religion that is so weak that it requires its members to force non-adherents to its tenets and dogma is too weak to deserve to survive. As my particular religious beliefs predate Christianity, I find the stronger faiths survive REGARDLESS of what others do. But apparently yours is pretty weak. I actually feel pity for you at this point.

    And finally, last I checked, the person Christians supposedly worship actually admonished his followers for wishing to pray in public, etc. I guess making a mockery of your religion by turning it into a commercial enterprise is okay with you. I prefer to leave my faith a spiritual exercise and leave the commercialism out of it as much as possible.