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UK Greens Declare Vista Bad For Environment
schwaang writes "The UK Green Party says that Vista's DRM requirements will force many unnecessary hardware upgrades. Quoting: 'There will be thousands of tonnes of dumped monitors, video cards, and whole computers that are perfectly capable of running Vista — except for the fact they lack the paranoid lock down mechanisms Vista forces you to use. That's an offensive cost to the environment. Future archaeologists will be able to identify a "Vista Upgrade Layer" when they go through our landfill sites.'"
Linux users probably use more CD-Rs because versions of Linux have come out more frequently than versions of Windows. Think of how many Linux CD-Rs you've written since Windows XP came out years ago. Probably enough to make plastic to make a monitor casing?
Why monitors?
-- if you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine
I didn't have to upgrade a damn thing... on a two year old Celeron system.
Maybe MSDN Vista is missing the "upgrade all your crap" bit being set.
that running a desktop in hardware accelerated 3d mode all the time also means more power consumption...
Could it have something to do with XP's Teletubbies wallpaper still being included?
I'm kind of confused. You see, the laptop I bought a couple years ago, which apparently has no support for HDCP or any of those other copy-protection measures, actually runs Vista _just fine_. In fact, my desktop, which is a relatively old AthlonXP 2500+ machine, ALSO doesn't need to be upgraded, beyond maybe getting a little more memory.
Look, DRM sucks. But DRM is no excuse to just start making up FUD. Vista is a hog, but blaming it all on DRM seems pretty inaccurate. Saying that everyone is going to start filling landfills just because their video card doesn't support HDCP seems like it's crossing over into "deliberately lying".
Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
Wasn't this story posted here before?
-Blackfire-
or it could be that nothing is found indicating the mass XP to Linux switch..
In a world of acronyms, the words are the real victims.
Future archaeologists will be able to identify a "Vista Upgrade Layer" when they go through our landfill sites
Number of people wo will buy Vista retail - tiny
Number of people who will upgrade an old PC just to run Vista that they just bought - tinier
Number of people upgrading who will toss out perfectly good vid cards/monitors rather than building a secondary PC - all 3 of you.
This is nonsense...it was said about WindowsXP as well. I don't see any news here.
I'm not a troll, but I play one on Slashdot.
The "Shutdown" icon in Vista no longer shuts down the computer -- it just puts it into standby! To shutdown properly you have to select the option from a tiny menu. This is going to waste a lot of energy, since people won't realise the difference.
Free linux workstations coming soon to a dumpster near you!!!
(Worked for my Masters, could work for you, too...)
Red to red, black to black. Switch it on, but stand well back.
Companies upgrade their computers bi-yearly, they get rid of all of their old computers. What's going to be different about Vista? I think that most people who want to use the Aero desktop for Vista will already have computers that can run it due to the games they play already. I am using Vista with an on board P.O.S video card, runs smoothly.
/. worthy.
Besides the video card most computers will not need to be upgraded. Even if they do, chances are that even if they kept XP they would need to upgrade for future software bundles. I agree with the people above, this is not news, and hardly
So RMS would be our Jesus, judging from the appearance?
c++;
Why would a landfill upgrade to Vista? Are they currently on XP? Are they even x86 architecture? I could see putting Java on them, for the garbage collection.
Oh, yeah, it's not easy to pad these out to 120 characters.
Microsoft and the hardware companies are in bed to get everyone to spend 1000's of dollars on hardware for an OS no one really needs.
Could someone explain why it is that Aero needs atleast a 128MB video card when it doesn't do anything beyond what Object Desktop has been doing
As if being bad foor the environment wasn't bad enough, everytime someone upgrades to Vista God kills a kitten.
Vista isn't negating all that hardware, the Movie Studios are. You have the same problem of not being able to run protected content no matter WHICH platform you choose. If Linux ever gets High Def DVD or if MAC's ever get Hi-Def DVD you bet they too will be DRM'd
They might have a point if millions of people were going to rush out and buy Vista. But thats not going to happen, so the Green Party is, sadly, talking rubbish.
Far and away the vast majority of PC users will be sticking with their current XP install until they buy a new PC, which will come pre-loaded with Vista. And even then, people don't tend to throw away their old PCs if they still work. They tend to keep it around as a second machine, or pass it on to a relative (instant recycling).
I hate DRM as much as the next Slashbot, but come on. Thousand of people dumping perfectly good hardware so they can watch HD-DVD movies? I don't think so.
"I realise this is not a very popular opinion but it's the truth, and there for needs to be said" -Bill Hicks
So whats the point? Vista isn't stopping you, your hardware is. HiDef is bandwidth/CPU intensive and old hardware isn't going to cut it. Thats not a fault of Vista. If you want HD playback on your laptop get a modern laptop. If you want HD playback on your PC you probably have a PC that isn't going to go to a landfill to begin with.
It's true. If there's someone who will have to choose between buying Vista and feeding their dog, they might choose Vista and the dog will starve. If you care at all about puppies, avoid Vista.
I mean, I like anti-MS FUD as much as the next guy, but please ground it in some sort of reality.
The summary makes it sound like you HAVE to upgrade to Vista. If no one upgrades, then Microsoft will have to continue to support XP, etc. There's nothing that says you HAVE to upgrade to Vista if it's all that bad.
stuff |
FUD's got a limit. I guess people are enjoying it when it is agains MS, but anyway, spreading disinformation is pretty much not good
Yeah Vista causes cancer, everything you see in your computer, if it is not Vista approved will look garbled (and even your eyes will look fuzzy after using Vista). And BillyG eats kittens for breakfast.
Come on people...
how long until
I managed to change it back to shutdown by going through the advanced options in Power Options in the control panel. I'm not in front of my Vista machine right now so I can't give you the details, but you should be able to find it.
Ironically these people should take lessons from Trigger, the dimmest bulb in Peckham and think about the parable of his broom.
Personally I've been using the same computer for over 8 years now. Fair enough it might have a different monitor, mouse, case, motherboard, powersupply, more hard drives etc but it's the same computer all right.
It seems to me that faster PCs in the past have brought them more and better functionality, making them replace other, potentially more enviromentally unfriendly technology. Not sure how the math on this works out tho'.
Since good Europeans would be buying the -N editions without media player, they can't play DRM content anyway!
;)
So why would they need to upgrade their monitor?
--I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
it would have been much better if the Greens had provided more technical details than laying on the leftist rants. I doubt if many on Slashdot need to be convinced that DRM is bad, but to a lot of suits in the corporate world, this doesn't help convince them.
Fizz
I hate sensationalist crap like this. Vista won't require a hardware upgrade for relatively new systems unless you want to experience all of it's bells and whistles. IMHO that's beside the point completely since most consumers will stick with the operating system they have until they buy a new PC that will be preloaded with Vista anyway. I know I'm in no rush to upgrade our systems where I work (and I'll never do it at home since I ditched my PC a year ago in favor of a Mac). I won't even bother taking a look at Vista until it's been on the market for two years. Let others deal with the inevitable bugs, security issues, driver problems and software compatibility issues. I'll stick with XP as long as possible. I just don't see very compelling businesses reasons to justify an upgrade to Vista. I see a lot more reasons for consumers to make the leap but as I mentioned above they'll do so whether they need to or not when they buy their next PC.
VISTA upgrade layer : Is that part of the TCP/IP stack ?
Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
Throwing them away...
But then where do I host my gigs and gigs of porn, store all my old music I don't like anymore.. what machine would I retrofit into my arcade chasis and set up as my MAME/LAME and SNES9X machine?
Maybe what we really need is a creative linux hacker to buy up old machines, throw some apps on it to do home server functions, and then sell them back to the old users. What could they do? Just as an example, put one in the kitchen with a touch screen that you could use to track inventory, bring up recorded cooking shows, hold a recepie index, address book, and notepad for the family. -- the trick is to do it for less than $300, and maybe this is the time to do it?
-GiH
I love your sig. Linux haters unite! There needs to be some diversity in Slashdot...However because we are different we will get modded down.
The greatest revenge in life is massive success.
Dont forget the Church of Emacs! http://www.stallman.org/extra/church.html
Reduce, reuse, cycle
as the european union files a lawsuit against microsoft because ms breaks rules that were set by the commission für Interoperable Systems (ECIS). after already in 2004 it was stated that ms uses their dominant position, as windows is not interoperabel with other vendors products. now with XAML they even try to be on the internet just as dominant. my first post by the way..
I already play hi-def content full 1080 on Windows XP.
But more to the point, why doesn't Vista have an option that says "I don't want to play DRM stuff, don't install the DRM subsystem on my PC (note, this option will save 30G of HD space and make your PC run 30% faster)"
You see, MS is more than a passive purveyor of DRM, they are an active, willing, lively participant in the attempt to strip away your rights to make a few more bucks for themselves.
I would suggest, given the comments about your sig above my reply, that you may want to insert the missing comma. Unless you have been Linux free for over 10 years.
:)
I am assuming you really meant: Linux, free for over 10 years.
Apologies if I'm wrong and you really don't like Linux.
"Sure, what's next, Vista is the principal factor of the Global Warning. You know, /. is sometimes funny. So many smart people and at the same time so many idiots reunited in the same place... People are SOOOO DESPERATE trying to make their point abd to demonstrate their holy theories..." bla bla bla...
/&%#%& STUPID MS-BASHING YOU #/&% LEFTIST ZEALOT BASTARDS!!!!". Sure, I agree that TFA might note have the smartest points ever, but those points are made in TFA and not on Slashdot.
Perhaps, after your done reading TFA, perhaps you should try reading TF discussion? The knee-jerk reaction you are talking about simply hasn't happened. The only knee-jerk reaction I've seen here is yours: "AAGH!! STOP THIS
Lemon curry???
Does that make it OK? Seems to me it would be better if it switch off, not standby.
What the heck is wrong with you people? Mac-lover, Windows-haters, Linux-fanatics... I can understand the fighting for open formats, DRM free hardware/software etc, but this OS love/hate wars are just retarded
Finally, a good reason to buy Vista: to irritate the kind of self-important environmental do-gooders who are apoplectic that the rest of us might be having a good time.
Has anybody considered the amount of power wasted by computers when they go into an infinite loop (or thrash the disk). If buggy software causes 100,000,000 windows machines to go 100 % cpu at say an extra 10 watts per machine. That is 1 billion megawatts !
Windows Vista -- Our OS boots up so slowly that shutting down the computer is an advanced option.
"When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
I think that if a communist muslim pedophile wrote an article knocking MS, slashdot would suddenly be full of posts about how misunderstood Lenin was, how Islam is really a religion of peace after all, and hey, anyone can get 21 and 12 mixed up sometimes.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
While their claims MAY be a bit exaggerated, you have to look back and see how destructive widespread computer use has really been. Remember 10 years ago or so everyone was saying more computers would = paperless society? Quite the opposite has happened, actually. The use of paper has skyrocketed to new proportions since 1995. Billions of tons of computer scrap has already been dumped, but mostly in China because they'll take anything we send over there. There have been plenty of articles about the mercury-laden landfills and communities there, with people scavenging around looking for valuable metals, etc. while the environment is ravaged by all the contaminants present in older computers that have been dumped.
I still don't see why the world is going to rush out and buy Vista. I wouldn't recommend to ANY of my customers to even consider upgrading for a minimum of six months because there is going to be quite the bug-fest with Vista 1.0. Besides, what's the real upside over XP? Security? Ha!
My current RSS feed collection shows a lot of Vista related garbage. Get over it! Microsoft came out with another Windows version. That's it. End of story. Just because it's shiny doesn't mean you got to drool all over the planet because of that!
Estimated OS upgrade dates to actually look forward to:
Mac OS X 10.5: April 2007?
Suse Linux 10.3: September 2007?
Ubuntu Linux Feisty Fawn: April 2007?
Fedora 7: April 2007?
I think it would be much more effective if instead of throwing away old PC parts, we either recycled them, or "donated" them to a warehouse of sorts that takes them apart, rebuilds them as needed to make computers for those who need them, but can't afford them.
This is it exactly.
I've heard the claim that "Vista is the fastest booting Windows (or even OS) yet".
Reading this, I wonder if that's only because the computer doesn't shut down when you tell it to.
1.21 JIGGAWATTS!
We all know what Vista is stated to require, but I would really be interested to find out what the minimum anyone has been able to run Vista on, while still have a satisfactory experience. For example has anyone managed to get it running on P3 with 512MB RAM.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
I don't remember having to throw away all my hardware and replace it when I switched to Vista. No matter what OS you use, eventually you will HAVE to upgrade your hardware. If you are that concerned about impacting the environment, take your old PC parts to a place that recycles them.
While stand-by is an issue in the general sense, stand-by would already be an improvement in most offices. I say this based on experience that in most places I have worked people don't switch off their computers or even put their computers into stand-by. Now just to find out whether the stand-by feature is set by default to activate after a certain amount of idle time?
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
nah, stallman is god the father, torvolds is god the son, and the GPL is god the holy spirit.
sarcasm:
-noun
1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
Not that I agree that so many people will suddenly dispose of their old computers, but if that were the case, why not establish some incentives for donating them instead of throwing them away? Give the original owner a free/discounted copy of Vista Home Basic or a free/discounted hardware upgrade (RAM/Monitor/Larger HDD/etc...) with the purchase of a new Vista-ready machine if they ship their old PC in (sort-of like replacing a car battery - you get the discount/refund when they get the old battery).
Think about it - if that were the case, companies like Dell and HP could possibly work with an institution (be it academic, charitable, or whatever) to start a ODPC (one desktop per child) project, where old PCs that would otherwise be completely trashed would be reformatted, have a free OS installed, and then sold at a very low price for similar uses as the OLPC machines. Granted, there's no spiffy hand-crank, but you have to admit it would have its benefits for education! Kids could still learn to type using these computers.
If the interconnect between video card and display is digital (DVI) HDCP is required regardless of whether the ICT is set or not. Without HDCP the content will be downscaled, or not play at all over a digital interconnect.
The ICT governs Analog connections only. If you have an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray movie that doesn't have the ICT set (which none of them currently do), then you could run full resolution to your LCD display via a VGA/Component connection.
Laptops shouldn't have this issue to their internal display, since it's already a closed loop. They will run into an issue if they're outputting to an external display.
There is a DRM flag that, if turned on, causes players to downres the picture to 570p if you don't have HDCP monitor. But NO discs currently use that flag, nor are any scheduled to do so until at least 2010.
Second, every dedicated hardware player implements that very same DRM. Why aren't you frothing at the mouth over that?
Third, Mac OSX Leopard will implement that very same DRM. (Note that Apple is a member of BDA (blu ray disc assoc), and will abide by the BDA provisions.)
Wake me up when you, the UK Greens, and slashdottes of your ilk condemn dedicated hardware players and OSX Leopard for this DRM thing. Until then, STFU.
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
More FUD. We are running Vista on everything from 4 year old (1st gen P4) PC's on up.
All this "have to upgrade" stuff is crap. Unless you want the full "Aero" gui your PC (assuming a gig of ram) is fine. We even run it on some old P4 machines at work with 512MB, and it runs ok.
My Windows PC gets the full Aero gui (which I admittedly don't care about anyway) and it is 1.5 years old. The only new part is a newer video card ($100) that I bought for a game, not for Vista.
Ever feel like you are driving the getaway car?
I got Vista as a free trial a few days ago, and it's the first Microsoft OS I've run on a desktop that actually supports sleep/suspend mode properly. I keep my PC on 24/7 because I don't want to wait for it to boot to get some simple task done. Until now that's meant full power on at about 110 watts idle. But Vista actually supports sleep mode properly. Sleep mode, if you didn't know, turns off the processor, hard drive, and suspends everything to memory. It consumes about 10 watts. My PC comes back to a fully operational state in about 2-3 seconds. It's also on by default in Vista. Previously there's always been some component (usually my video card) that didn't support it properly.
So the dumb-ass greens should be ENCOURAGING Vista use, because there's a LOT of people that just keep their machines on 24/7 for the same reasons I do. Instead they get all caught up about DRM on HD-DVD and Blueray (which almost no one has anyway, so no one is going to throw away) and a little more power usage from Aero. If you don't like the increased power usage from Aero, turn it off.
AccountKiller
Am I the only one that noticed that the British Green Party has positions like MALE Principal Speaker and FEMALE Principal Speaker? Isn't this at least a little bit absurd?
There will be another distinct layer when we shoot all the Greens.
Why do they assume people will throw perfectly good computer hardware out? Some might but enough to make a difference?
Vista will work perfectly well on non-DRM capable hardware, only DRMed media will play with *reduced* quality - and frankly with pirate media so readily available, why would anyone worry about that? And even if that were not true, why assume that people will not simply sell or give away their XP machines to other who just need Internet and Word. Then there are people who will simply load Linux on that hardware or even continue using Windows XP as backup machine.
I think the label "environmental-wackos" applies to these guys. Totally baseless accusations. Maybe they can find a link between Vista and Global Warming.
How to stop the wasteful and bad practice, "defective by design"?
Which is the point of upgrading to Vista in the first place. People don't upgrade for no reason, they want to upgrade to get the newest stuff. Period. Otherwise we'd all be running Windows 3.1 still.
"IMHO that's beside the point completely since most consumers will stick with the operating system they have until they buy a new PC that will be preloaded with Vista anyway."
Exactly the point the article was making. They'll be buying new machines anyways, which they shouldn't have to do! They should be able to install Vista on their current machines and get all the "bells and whistles", slap a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD drive in and watch full 1080p movies on their 5 year old monitors. But they can't. So they'll do as you say and "upgrade anyways". What a waste.
One of the more amusing bits I heard yesterday was a reporting asking Bill Gates (paraphrased)"Will Vista run on older machines fine? Will I have to upgrade my PC to get the most out of it?" and his response? "Of course it will run on old PCs! Any PC purchases in the last two years should be fine!"
Last two years is OLD? Try last 5-7 years! Most companies are still running their Y2K hardware upgrades just fine with XP. Hardware lifecycle might be two years for gamers, but certainly not for your typical home user!
I've gotten to the point where I set my threshold all the way down because people whom I respect are getting modded out. I've also seen some criticism of not only this story, but of the constant bashing of Vista in general getting old and worn out, especially with articles like this. The hyper-sensitivity to flamebaits and trolls is causing improper modding. Many of these points are valid and true... in my opinion. Opinions seem to get overly modded here and I like seeing people's opinions even when I don't agree. I come here to find out what people think and why. Maybe I'm in the wrong place?
I miss the days when Slashdot was modded by a selected few.
So... now... go ahead and mod me "offtopic" for this one... or no wait maybe troll or flamebait would be better because I'm being critical of the Slashdot modding system and the job some members are doing.
I repeat... this is not a Troll and it's not Flamebait. I will concede off-topic, but I'm only responding in general to some of the comments I've seen which are being unfairly modded. Some of my more "senior" friends in the industry tell me to just give up on the Slashdot "cult". I'm getting close... real close. If this gets modded as Flamebait or Troll, I think that will about do it. I'll tolerate Off-Topic.
Fresh horses and more whiskey for my men.
Use CD-RW's instead!
...the ME layer? It's composed of the ME install disks that started forming the day after it came out.
By their reasoning, new cutting edge games are also bad for the environment. I have done more hardware upgrades for the sake of gaming than I ever did for an OS.
Don't mean to minimize the landfill impact of vista but by far the worst effect of Vista will be its increased electrical power needs for DRM. All over the planet, computers will be spending power-hungry cpu cycles to encrypt and deencrypt "Back to the Future 3" or "Superman 3" to protect their digital rights. That is a real and enormous impact on worldwide power use that, all by itself, should make governments move to ban such schemes. By far the lesser of two evils is for power-sucking copy protection schemes to be eliminated. In that case, the worst thing that could happen would be that someone might not realize enough revenue from viewings of their movie and perhaps would curtail future productions. In the other case, worldwide power consumption will increase significantly leading to further planetary disruption. This DRM crap is for 'entertainment', not for peoples lives.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Don't they know Vista uses more recycled code than Linux? If anything Linux is to blame!
--- Duey Finster http://www.dueyfinster.com
Stupid arguments.
If you don't like Vista/don't have the hardware to run it.. stay with XP! No need to go to "free software" (why does this seem like an attempt to promote "free software" with tabloid-like tactics?)
The Green party should stick to environmental issues.. a software program is not one of these.
I am the maverick of Slashdot
Now wait a minute. Isn't the fact that "people are too stupid or lazy to out figure the difference" the reason nobody can use Linux? Everyone keeps telling me that Windows just works so "stupid or lazy" can use it but Linux is too complex for "stupid or lazy" people.
You Microsoft shills are such hypocrites. Windows is easy and just works but I have to pay extra for the privilege to battle anti-virus software and anti-spyware software and figure out how to tweak IE so my machine doesn't get botted and buy and install MS Office and all the other software to do anything useful and keep upgrading my drivers so the computer won't crash (but that's not Microsoft's fault is it) and fight with Microsoft because my machine won't update because I upgrade my hard drive and video card and ... and ... and ... But Windows just works.
Hmmm... or I could pop in an Ubuntu CD and it magically boots up a completely usable system with most of the software right there. Wow, I double click this little install icon and it installs after a few questions. It's truly amazing how much more difficult this is than installing Windows (or even buying a computer with Windows pre-installed). Now I need some financial software. So do I go pay Microsoft another $100 for that and try to figure out how to install it. Lets see. Double click this icon enter this key? Opps, I want to run it on this other computer but I can't because it was already installed on that computer. No, with Ubuntu I select this little thing called a Package Manager (yes I know apt-get but I'm being "stupid and lazy") from the Admin menu and search for finance and it brings up a whole list of finance software I can install. Personal finance managers, Stock portfolio managers and lots of interesting stuff. Wow, this is going to cost a fortune...wait...hold on, it's all free? Wow. Select one click apply and it's there. This is so much more difficult than Windows. Oh man, my network stopped working. Gee, if I was using Microsoft I could just call up old Billy Boy and he would send someone right around since it's a supported operating system. Since I'm not I'll try entering the error message into Google. Wow, several hundred hits on pages with every detail of the problem and how to fix it. But this is so much more difficult than Windows.
It just works is the biggest line of BS every created for a marketing campaign and millions are still eating the s**t as Microsoft piles on the plate it in front of them while complimenting Bill on how good it taste.
Who is John Galt?
In other news, Green Party declares that anything they don't like to be "Bad for the Enviornment".
"Brocolli, definitly should be banned. It is bad for the enviornment!" said a spokesman.
When some people questioned the statement, the Green Party spokesman responded: "Scientists have proved Global Warming is a fact! If we don't do something now, climate change will have disasterous effects! Only a right-wing zealot, ignorant of enviornmental science, would suggest we shouldn't ban brocolli when the costs of inaction are so high!"
With bullshit like "Visa is bad for the enviornment", people wonder why enviornmentalism isn't taken more seriously! The Green movement is dead. It has been taken over by a bunch of reactionary leftists, and no longer has anything to do with protecting the enviornment.
I think you will find that only CRT monitors now contain lead. They have to have it as it is used to screen radiation generated by the CRT gun. All other types of monitor may not use lead by law in the EU (since July 2006) and soon China (March 2007). This is due new RoHS regulations that regulate the use of Lead in all consumer equipment.
This legislation means that tin/lead solder is now also illegal. Some people think that this is a good idea, but in fact it has been very misguided. The problem is that the solder has generally replaced by Copper Tin Silver (known as SAC), which has a much higher melting temperature. In fact if you heat the equivalent of a ton of this solder when compared with tin/lead, the additional energy used is equivalent to driving your family hatchback to the moon and back. - not good for the CO emissions then.
Another problem is that Silver is in fact more hazardous for the environment than lead. This is because it is dangerous to aquatic life and it leeches into water a lot more easily than the lead it is replacing. If fact the only problem with lead in this area can easily be rectified by recycling and reclaiming the material (which has to be done anyway).
Then there is the issue that tin and lead are normally found together, so only one hole has to be dug to remove them from the ground. While the amount of silver used is a lot less, it does require mining in areas where tin is not present.
And then there is the problem of reliability. Tin/lead solders are very stable and do not suffer from excessive problems with tin whisker (a fine shorting mechanism process caused by the crystal structure within tin, which the addition of lead removes) and tin pest (where tin expands due to changes in is crystal structure, again this effect is removed by adding lead). This means that your consumer device will not last as long as it did in the past, surely not a particular environmentally good thing as its production will introduce a large proportion of the CO2 that would be generated over the product's lifespan.
Don't get me wrong, leaded petrol was probably one of the biggest environment disasters ever devised by man and comes a close second to the CFC. The fact that both products were invented by the same man (Thomas Midgley, Jr) is even more ironic.
I wont be rushing to buy a computer with Vista - from what I have heard its no better than XP anyway.
Where is the enviornment being "ravaged" by computer waste? Can you point to areas where there has been a signifanct loss of wildlife and habitat, or point to some real statistics about increased death rates? Or is this just FUD?
I mean, I have seen places where the enviornment really has been ravaged... but it certainly wasn't ravaged by computer waste. Can you point out even one of these mad-max enviornmental wastelands created by computer waste?
> There will be thousands of tonnes of dumped monitors, video cards, and whole computers [...] and Vista DVDs!...
The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes