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Zap2It Labs Discontinuing Free TV Guide Service
QuijiboIsAWord writes "Zap2It Labs, which provides free TV listing data for personal use, has long been the main source of program guide information for users in the US and beyond. They've announced via their webpage that,
due to abuse of the service, data will no longer be available after September 1st. There is no other direct source, and no option to pay for the service even if the users wanted to. Without a data feed of this type, users will be reduced to scraping websites at best. Is this going to be a killing blow for MythTV?"
And I just got my MythTV box update to some nice hardware! ARRRGGGGG!!!!
"Klaatu, verada, necktie!" -Ash
This will break my favourite / most used OSX Dashboard widget: http://www.patrickpatoray.com/index.php?Page=101
I don't use MythTV, and so I was surprised to see that it relies on a private third-party source for TV listings. Isn't there any way to obtain this information in an "open-source" manner?
We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
Their website does not explain. Is just using the data in MythTV, "abuse"?
... Without a data feed of this type, users will be reduced to scraping websites at best. Is this going to be a killing blow for MythTV?" I fail to see how, unless the screenscrapers specifically mentioned don't work. I wrote a scraper for my MythTV box to pull PPV information from somewhere, since it wasn't coming from Zap2it. It's not that hard, really, and took me all of an hour to do.Some body will buck up and make a deal with someone,
if there is a major cry for a service, somebody will make a paid or a free one, maybe the mythTV devs should make their own service, i think this would be better
WulframII - Free Online Mutiplayer 3D Tank Shooting Game
I first became aware of MythTV some years ago from a developer that was excitedly working on the project. With all the effort that was going on at the time, nobody seemed to have a clear-cut idea of a long-term, stable way of getting TV listings. "Scraping web pages" was the only plan.
Looks like five years later, it's still the only plan.
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This was an invaluable service - makes me wonder who's putting the pressure on them :(
12:50 - press return.
Anyone know?
Proud member of the American Non Sequitur Society. We might not make much sense, but boy do we love pizza!
How would it being preconfigured with a distro prevent the risk of losing its guide feeds? Just like old versions of Winamp come configured to access the original cddb instead of freedb.
How, exactly, does one go about "misusing" TV schedule listings? Is this really because Zap2It was making all other forms of TV listings obsolete while not making any money at it? The announcement is quite vague. Does anybody have details on what's going on?
I don't know about you, but my servers run on the power of cotton candy and happy thoughts. -Anonymous Coward
I use a Windows based PVR that works with the Web site titantv.com Clicking on the 'record' button on the Web site sends a small file that a helper app converts to a Windows scheduler entry. I can't believe it would be that hard to adapt to Linux.
The Titan TV web site includes advertising and also does tracking. While personally, I don't care if anyone knows I watch StarGate and Myth Busters, privacy issues may be a concern for some.
[Insert pithy quote here]
Truth is that hardly anything on TV is worth watching anyways... My Myth TV box sits idle nowadays anyways.
--jeffk++
ipv6 is my vpn
I've been a Zap2it subscriber for at least three years for my MythTV.
At first, they made me fill out a big online survey as "payment" for the service. The first time it was about 30 questions.
The third time (this is like every 3-6 months) they only asked one question.
For the last year, the survey has been "click here to renew."
What's with that? I'm willing to give up some personal time and info to pay for this service, and they can't even think of a way to leverage that?
It doesn't appear that this will affect their main listings on their website, just the programs that tap into their database.
I've always just setup an easy shortcut to their web page to get listings, so I really don't think this will affect my usage in the least.
This will be the killing blow for MythTV and other open source DVRs? I think not. MythTV predates Zap2It and managed to do okay. Yes, it relied on screen scraping, but it worked. Furthermore, I know I'm perfectly prepared to pay a small monthly fee for a good data source. Maybe $5 a month? Since a company offering such a service doesn't need to recoup costs for selling hardware below cost (as Tivo does), such a price should be feasible. Since Zap2It was free, there wasn't much incentive for someone to offer the service, but now there is. I'm hoping the free market will see the opportunity and we can work something else.
Search 2010 Gen Con events
What's wrong with just "scraping" web pages (I assume that means writing code which automatically downloads the webpages and captures the data of interest, rather than requiring a human to do it. I do this all the time with Perl code.)?
There's multiple sites out there with TV listings: Yahoo TV, Zap2It, MeeTV (the one I use), etc. Just write perl scripts to capture the listing information from these sites, and modify MythTV to allow the user to choose any service he wishes. Of course, some of these sites may (stupidly) screw with their HTML in order to throw off these scripts, but that's easily worked around with regular updates. So we just need to have a "myth-scripts" distribution site where your Myth box automatically checks for updates to the perl scripts every day and downloads them if necessary, just like we already do with many other things.
No, it's not quite as reliable and efficient as a static interface to this data, but if these companies are stupid enough to remove static interfaces, thinking we're just going to go back to doing everything manually and looking at all the ads, this seems like a reasonable solution. There's no way of preventing automated scripts from downloading webpages.
Then it's just a question of who is benefiting from this the most?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Me thinks that someone doesn't quite grasp the strength of OSS: That strength not just being free. Ultimately, it's the dissemination of data. Which is precisely why this problem is uniquely suited to being solved by OSS.
O OO!!!!!!!!!!!!!". Zap2it was damn handy. Thank you Zap2it, for a great service.
This will be a minor set back at worse. But, like any set back, it will make the overall product stronger.
That said..."NNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users /275533#275533
And it isn't just MythTV that uses the guide data provided...
When the source is open, the possibilities are endless.
FWIW, Myth beats the shorts off of TIVO any day.
How? I had my DirecTivo installed in 2005 and haven't touched it since. When it was installed I didn't have to do anything, someone came out and hooked it up and turned it on. Ever since it's been working like it should w/o me having to fuck with it in the least.
Until MythTV boxes come ready to plug and play for less than $100 (mine was free b/c DirecTV's new firmware (at the time) put up a screensaver that my standalone TiVo recorded instead of the show) it won't "beat the pants off of TiVo".
They could keep the service going if they charged a small monthly fee. I mean really small, on the order of couple of dollars a month, at the most, hopefully less. At that rate, it's not worth the effort for anyone to "misuse" (redistribute) it.
Shouldn't Google or Yahoo or Microsoft or any of the other big media / tech companies of the 21st century provide this information as a free WebService? Seems like something Google would jump on top of since their mission statement is to organize the worlds information. Well, TV listings is information.... get on that Google!
Either there are too many people using the service, (which shouldn't be a problem) or bots/spammers are hammering it.
Even still, there are ways to stop that.
My guess is (like some other commenters above) that someone is putting pressure on them to stop.
Tivo perhaps? M$? Who knows.
I'm sure the community will get around it. I love mythtv. I'm not buying a Tivo.
Shameless plug alert: Game server control panel
MythTV can read the broadcast schedules on the airwaves - see EIT. At least that's what I use in the UK. I can also still scrape the Radio Times website in XMLtv as well.
Running a massively-popular, industry-unsupported service like freedb or free TV guide is difficult, apparently. Revenues need to come from somewhere, whether Google ads or private donors or corporate sponsors. It wouldn't surprise me if the open source community retaliated with a resource to replace Zap2It within months, along the same advertising-supported lines as FreeDB.org.
Then again, watching less TV might be good for all of you...
technical writing / development
Myth just tunes to it (alongside the digital multiplex) and grabs a lot of info. It's not perfect, but it means we don't need to bother with zap2, radio times, etc
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/EIT
http://milkshake.dexy.org
Not having to pay a monthly fee to automatically record shows you watched previously
Not having to deal with commercials inserted when you fast forward 30 seconds.
Now, if they could only find a way to strip thos FREAKIN' RUDE graphics that certain vile channels overlay on top of the movie/show. I can deal with a tiny little station identification, but those rude obnoxious ads obscure vital parts of the show about one out of every 3 times. I swear my Blood pressure goes through the roof.excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
Isn't there any way to obtain this information in an "open-source" manner?
The best way to get the information is from the stations and cable operators.
Unfortunately, MythTV and other PVR users are in the game of cutting out ads; TV programming is purely to sell ad space, and always has been, save when programs were entirely paid for by one company and the show was branded in their name. What motivation do TV stations have to assist people who are purposefully going out of their way to cut out the ads?
Please help metamoderate.
Anybody worked with XMLTV and care to share their experience?
What if I was to write a web service that exposed the data garnered from website-scraping? You could just write a standard XML request, wrap it in SOAP tags and send it to the web service, and you'd be returned whatever information you requested- by channel, time, or show name...
Any takers?
I can give you TiVo's occasional recording of repeats, although a little working with the Season Passes will avoid most of that, but WTF are you talking about with inserted commercials and fast-forwarding?
Now there's just the question of who? Who is expert at spidering the web? Who likes to provide new cheap-to-free services in their quest to take over new markets. Who would love to put yet another spike into Microsoft's side by removing yet another possible revenue source for them? Who doesn't have to worry about financing such a small, cheap service alongside their already multitudes of underutilized servers and bandwidth?
Google?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
EWWWW! I so hate animated station bugs. Especially that shit they have on Jetsux now (Toon Disney) where they shrink the screen so they can take up a quarter of it with some advertisement... Come on, you HAVE commercial time, use *it* for your ads! Sheesh.
And to think I pay $69 a month for this bullshit.
-uso.
What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
There are too many (open source/free) programs out there and too many users that need this information to just let it fall to the way side. Someone somewhere will come up with a service that i wouldn't be surprised is free and without the re-registration that was needed with zap2it.
I wouldn't be surprised if it were Yahoo either. They already offer stock information for parsers for free.
I had the same thought- Snapstream or TitanTV ought to come out with a *paid* MythTV plugin at this point. It's not like they don't already have the listings.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Google needs a TV Listings aggregator!
Of course it would be the best ever... With version numbers for each day and diffs available that only contain the changes. The whole thing would be available as an rss feed and would be free, of course.
My TV automatically downloads, somehow (over the air? cable?) channel lineup listings through the Guide+ system.
Could a computer not do the same thing?
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
For those folks with DirecTV, that's not an option. In fact, at this point, we have no options at all other than writing a guide scraper for TVGuide.com. Fortunately, their website data is fetched in Javascript using xmlHttpRequest, so it is probably straight XML in some dialect that could be converted into the same format as Zap2It uses with very little effort. If done carefully (request the entire schedule exactly once, then only refetch the current day each day and fetch any new days added to the schedule), it might not add enough server hits for them to even care.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
What about the Canadian site canoe.ca. It has free TV listings.
"MYTH TV offers everything TIVO does"
With a TiVo, you can plug in three cables and press power, at which point you are done but for the watching. You're claiming MYTH can do this too?
So no, it does NOT offer everything TiVo does.
Anyone considered asking Google to buy them out?
Benefit for us:
- google tend to be fairly decent with providing data to users, would likely continue the service.
Benefit for them:
- yet another resource they can provide as a search and generate revenue from providing it online with small ads.
...I doubt it...there are too many good people involved with MythTV.
Is it a serious problem to be overcome...yes, because EPG reliance is one of MythTVs biggest flaws. Without an EPG, a MythTV box is pretty well useless.
Basically, the MythTV community does not have a choice in the matter. Either find a work around or the MythTV project is dead in the water.
Hedghog
Zap2It has a TV Guide-like web page that tells you your personal TV listings. Is this the same thing that they are shutting down? Or is there some other service that they are talking about?
Like many others, I'm a little surprised that they aren't moving to a subscription model. Clearly they know better what their available resources are, and what they are and are not capable of handling, but it seems like a missed opportunity to walk away from a situation where their servers are getting hammered, and start charging a small fee. Many, many of the MythTV users would happily pay a few dollars a month to have a steady stream of information. Sounds like it could be a million dollar annual income right there, and that's got to be very hard to walk away from for any company.
As for commercial abuse, if they know it's happening, they presumably are taking steps to quash it as well, without much luck. Probably like playing whack-a-mole.
Let's all hope Google comes to the rescue.
Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
Google should step in -- or better yet, Yahoo!
Why the articles of course.
Were that I say, pancakes?
I still prefer SageTV. It's about 1000 times easier to set up, and has most of the same functionality. The $70 for the software is nothing for the ease of use it gives me.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
You forgot being able to watch a recording on your laptop while on the toilet. I'm puzzled as to why MythTV doesn't advertise this feature a bit more, since it's one of my favorites.
That being said, you can't honestly suggest that MythTV is always a better choice than Tivo, unless you've conveniently forgotten about the teeming masses of people who couldn't install a capture card if their life depended on it. Ease is the killer feature for Tivo and bundled PVRs.
It's nothing but crumpled porno and Ayn Rand.
A year ago it was announced that an alternative paid service through TechnoVera was available to replace Zap2It with part of the funds going back to OSS and mythtv -- and no periodic surveys. Couldn't users switch to this service? -- or is it no longer available? (I've never used this service myself.. any users care to respond?)
I thought SageTV and BeyondTV used this same data. Won't they be cut off too?
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
I think the solution is to pressure TV stations to provide listings in something like an RSS feed. Then all you need is a database of RSS feed URL's. Any idea's on how to sell TV stations on how this will benefit them?
Not having to pay a monthly fee to automatically record shows you watched previously
Well, it did offer this, but it seems like it may not in the future, because it was depending on the charity of one organization to provide the data feed that makes it work.
I have a MythTV box and love it (and so does the S.O.), but I've always thought that the guide data was a massive failure point.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
You can do this with Tivo out of the box.
I know because their FAQ told me so. I was looking to set up a timed recording on a channel not in my line-up (subchannel 11-1 over unencrypted cable on a Series3 without a CableCard installed) and found it only allowed remote scheduling of recordings for scheduled shows on listed channels, and it said: Yeah, they should insert "or TiVo Series3 DMR" in there.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Perhaps this Doom and Gloom is unwarranted? Surely if Zap2It could provide listings someone else could do so as well. It might be a little work to figure out how to make money off it, but I think for someone this represents an opportunity to make a little money.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
TechnoVera's data came from Zap2it. Meanwhile, their URL http://www.lxmsuite.com/ is parked.
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
I've seen some of the newer LCD HDTVs sold here in the U.S. which have the ability to display program guide data, no doubt culled from available EIT data, but this is really intended to allow viewers to see what's on right now or in the immediate future without resorting to channel flipping. I bought a Sharp Aquos one generation before this feature became standard, so I missed out, but I really don't feel like I'm missing too much because of the described limitations.
I have an HD cable box at home with built-in DVR that functions like Tivo... yet I haven't even HEARD of Zap2It, let alone needed to use it ever. Warner's digital cable boxes have great TV guides, so as long as cable provides have that, why need another online one?
I like basketball!!1!
I've never used a MythTV rig. But, its my understanding that they don't offer the "Thumbs Up/Down" and "Suggestions" features that TiVo offers.
I've used a TiVo for 2 years now. I really like that it makes guesses about what shows I will like and goes and gets them when its idle and has free space. These recordings are considered low-priority and are the first to be deleted if it needs room for shows that I have requested. In this way, I'm often introduced to shows that I have never heard of and I end up liking them.
The other question is, is there any way to save out shows more conveniently than playing it out at 1X through the video outs? MythTV's ability to edit out ads and transcode directly into my desktop system is a huge convenience.
Do you own your TiVo, or do you pay a fee for it?
What if you want to record from another source onto the HD or to a DVD?
What if you discontinue your DSS and get something else like cable or Dish? Will the TiVo still work?
What we need is a simple tapeless video recorder that lets you watch a show that has already started while it finishes recording. That's all I want, and I want it in a 19" appliance and without any subscription to anything. I haven't found it yet.
Knowledge is like ignorance.. too much can be just as bad as not enough.
I still prefer SageTV. It's about 1000 times easier to set up, and has most of the same functionality. The $70 for the software is nothing for the ease of use it gives me.
But that only runs on Windows, so for decent people with morals and integrity, funding a criminal organization due to mere laziness isn't really an option, now is it?
According to the article, the project was to be hosted at LxMSuite.com, now a squatter domain available for sale. I think it's dead, Jim.
There is a difference between "insightful" and "inciteful" other than spelling.
Post or moderate?
I have to say its rather disconcerting to see so many people actually bothered this much by something as trivial as moving pictures? And in all honesty, the same people who gravitated to mythTV are the ones who percieve themselves as somehow above 'regular' TV watchers.
In my opinion, MythTV is going to be looked back as the 'bridge' between the old model of what a TV station is today, and what IPTV will transform the market into in the next decade. Sure there will still be those who want and use MythTV or something of the like, just as there are old people today who still listen to music on AM radio. At some point in many of our lives we attach certain emotions on top of the technology that we use. Thus leading us to a point where the 'old' stuff is fine for our tastes. Because our tastes are based on more than hardware, they are based on the emotions and feelings garnered in the entire process. We all know the 'tubes sound more rich' audiophiles, its the same principle.
So, now that there are cadres of phosphor zombies worried about their 'listings' being taken away, you can all rest comfortably knowing the next step is to pull your pants up well above your waist-line
For some reason, every generation thinks 'they' wont get old. But as someone wiser than me once said; "Same shit...different day"
It will slow it down, perhaps making it more cumbersome to use until an alternative is developed, but it won't kill MythTv. Far from it.
And, as a longtime MythTv user I'd cheerfully cough up $50/year for access to the data. Zap2it has been reliable and accurate for me, and I'd support them. But then I'm weird - I subscribe to comics and journals.
-- "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." - R.A.H.
I'm sure I represent most other MythTV users when I say: "FSCK!"
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
You obviously haven't configured your grey market Tivo, your MythTV install, or simply a browser bookmark for yourself to take advantage of the remarkable free service they've been offering all this time. They're definitely not an email harverster site.
Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
Yahoo and TVGuide both had free listings online last I checked. What's wrong with using theirs? (If that's a stoopid question I apologise, I do not watch TV or use any PVR:)
Caveat Utilitor
I'll bet that they will offer integrated television listings to any application for about twice the price of an annual subscription to the TV Guide per user because "integrated TV listings have more value..." or some crap like that.
Signed,
Bitter SageTV Owner
The whole argument over who skips commercials better is moot at best.
Commercials are going to be a thing of the past, at least commercials as we have grown used to them.
As DVRs become more ingrained, advertisers and providers will find new ways to get the message across,
ways that blend the content with the message. We are probably a couple of years away from a real change in how
"Commercials" are shown on TV.
It seems to me this is a problem with a number of very workable solutions. For starters, how about people receiving only a compressed download of their guide data with a password protected archive file? The correct password to decompress the archive could change daily (or hourly even, whatever), based on information exchanged between the paid subscriber's Myth box and the server. To discourage "reverse engineering" of exactly how these passwords were determined, you might have to release the guide module without providing open source for that little component .... but I think that's something most Myth users could live with, given the circumstances. (They already happily use nVidia drivers that don't include source, right?)
Sure, someone could brute force hack the archive file to get it decompressed, but how worthwhile could all that effort really be for a service people are ok spending maybe $1.99 a month for? And considering the password would change often (maybe with each new guide update?), it would have to be brute force hacked over and over and over.....
Open Source doesn't mean that a company can't charge something. Look at Redhat. They sure as hell don't give everything away for free. What we're talking about here is also a service, not necessarily a product. People ought to be willing to pay for a service in one form or another, be it with regularly scheduled fees, putting up with advertisements, etc.
Do you own your TiVo, or do you pay a fee for it?
I own the Tivo box but being that I have DirecTV I have to pay for the receiver either way.
What if you want to record from another source onto the HD or to a DVD?
I don't and neither do *most* other people that don't want to fuck around w/their PVR.
What if you discontinue your DSS and get something else like cable or Dish? Will the TiVo still work?
I won't and probably not.
What we need is a simple tapeless video recorder that lets you watch a show that has already started while it finishes recording. That's all I want, and I want it in a 19" appliance and without any subscription to anything. I haven't found it yet.
Buy a TiVo, don't get a subscription and manually set the device to record your show.
Yes, and more generally, MythTV's client-server architecture opens up a lot of possibilities. If you have a busy household (e.g. big family), build yourself a monster MythTV backend, and stash in in your basement. Then install MythTV thin clients everywhere in your house, and everyone can watch what they want when they want.
I also use the MythVideo plugin. I've copied all the DVDs I own to a big file server (so I have all my movies "on-demand" via MythTV). My girlfriend said it would be cool to install another MythTV system in a spare bedroom. Then when we had guests, they could watch a movie before going to bed (or when they get up in the morning, whatever).
Yeah, it's definitely not trivial to setup. But I always thought someone could make a business out of setting MythTV up for people. Charge a big upfront fee, and it's free after that. (Of course, you expose yourself to risk like this Zap2It debacle!)
I am curious as to why I can't seem to find a pre-configured MythTV system anywhere, at least not in the first page of Google hits.
If MythTV is so great, how come no one has built a company around providing MythTV for a fee?
I have no interest in rolling my own because my TiVo provides all of the features that I need with none of the hassle. Certainly,
If MORE features were available, I'd be interested.
Can MythTV work with CableCards?
Why doesn't someone produce these things commercially?
BTW, I am going to patent, copyright, and trademark this idea, so if anyone does do it, I am going sue, sue, sue.
Relatedly, some comic artists are no longer doing free sketches for fans because too many "fans" actually turn around and hawk them on eBay. Because some people can't play nice, everyone suffers. It's a shame. Perhaps unsurprising, basic economic theory predicts these results.
Search 2010 Gen Con events
why not use couchville.com?
Having one person or business try to get all this data would be hard. It would cost money and would not be free without the risk of abuse. However, there is a way we can do that. The operative word is "we". What it takes is for the right people in each TV market area to convince the stations in that market (that they can communicate directly with or even visit) to provide them their listings (free, with no restrictions). As soon as one is convinced, more will follow. They might need to be converted to a common XML/RSS format. Then we merge them together at a few central points, and redistribute. If those stations can be convinced to do so in an RSS feed, that could make it easy. But what we should do is work with them to make it easy for them.
Then we'll need other approaches to get the national cable/satellite listings. This might get harder.
And keep in mind there will be resistance from those who make revenues from listings.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Windows Media Center uses listings supplied by Zap2it. Does that mean they're going to screw Microsoft too?
TV listings seems like a great P2P app for MythTV. Listings for future broadcasts can be read by users from their local media.
In small entries (enforced by the GUI) that don't trip the copyright of the original publisher. Or, like most P2P users, they'll ignore the copyrights.
It's like a Napster index that doesn't point to copyright violated media, but to fair use of one's own media subscriptions.
--
make install -not war
If beyondTV costs $70 and gives you listings, couldnt somebody set up a company and buy their data from the same place that snapstream does, and sell a small mythtv addin for $70 and probably make a tidy profit? I'd rather pay $70 to a mythtv company than snapstream. Hopefully they wouldnt be greedy and would use some of that $70 to further develop mythtv...
Or does snapstream get their data from zap2it? In which case my backup plan (buy beyondtv and format my mythtv box with windows...) is fubar'd..
-- Senior Software Engineer, Attorney appearance services, locallawyerapp.com.
Agreed. I have a DirecTiVo dual-tuner setup, which is absolutely perfect for the Suggestions feature. It's rare that there are ever two shows on at the same time that I want to watch, and even when there are, I can record them both. Which means the other 99+% of the time, the TiVo is free to go out and record whatever the hell it thinks I might be interested in. And it usually does a good job of that. I constantly sit down and watch random things from the Suggestions list.
This guy's the limit!
www.titantv.com; it's the online guide used by EyeTV and is run by DecisionMark (no relation to Zap2it).
Steven Buehler | swbuehler@gmail.com
I pay $7/month for my service. Granted I bought one of the first series 2 boxes (when they were ~$300) and ran at least a year at $12/month.
If they've broken even on you then it's likely they'll off favorable pricing instead of losing you to a cable company dvr.
Maybe Microsoft could do it? Wouldn't this be where Media Center pulls its data from too? Kind of important for the product. And then maybe out of the goodness of their heart they'll make the listings openly available (I know, unlikely).
:-)
It's not like they'd sell very many extra copies of Home Premium Vista by keeping it closed...so maybe earn some brownie points with the OSS community, and not to mention having some degree of power by having quite a few people rely on your service. (I know you like power Microsoft, so hook us up
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A number of the comments here seem to take the view that one source of listings is as good as any other. However, the power of getting the listings data (as opposed to a look at formatted listings) is that you can then use software to read that data and find all the programs that might interest you. The XMLTV package itself offers a number of tools for scanning the data and selecting programs based on rules you specify. There also exist other application programs which have sophisticated search capabilities for treating XML program data. The number of different TV stations I receive now is staggering. I would waste much more time finding the programs I want to watch if I did not have software that automatically weeds out most of what I would not care to consider. Furthermore, there are programs, which would interest me and which I would enjoy watching, but which I would miss if I did not have the tool to spot them for me because it would just take too much time for me to scan for such shows in the listings for all the stations which I rarely watch.
In the wise words of Douglas Adams, "Don't Panic". There is plenty of time for Zap2it to change their minds about providing the service for free. There's three months of backlash (forelash?) that they have to deal with before closing, and who knows how much backlash to deal with when the general public finds out. Besides, this may just be their direct download closing down. Their free website may still be up and running afterwards. I'm sure it wouldn't take long for the clever folks on the internet to figure out how to squeeze the same data out of the website.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Unlike printed guides, which have to limit show descriptions to one or two lines at best, digital guides can be as detailed as you wish. By providing your own RSS feed of your schedule, you could increase the information given, which should increase the number of people willing to watch your channel. Even though I have a DVR I still watch (interesting) commercials, so don't completely write off my viewership.
And here's how you can directly make money:
By providing your own guide information, you can insert sponsorship lines and charge for them.
"Tonight on Lost, sponsored by Coca-Cola, Jack and Kate have more awkward sexual tension, while Hurley tries to cheer everyone up, Sawyer acts rudely, and Sayid kills someone with his feet."
Even us DVR users will very often look at the guide information. Voila, you've just sold an ad!
It doesn't hurt to be nice.
They have made a fatal mistake. They could have made money from it and kept the free use. By using basic XML feed with text based ads embedded in the individual listings. With the growing number of HTPCs, That could have brought revenue to zap2it. When you change the channel, you often get description of the show/movie. The ad would also show up as well. And Zap2It could have used Licensing to ensure unaltered feeds.
On other hand, Google could do it and bring adsense to the TV.
\
Seems to me that there is a great opportunity for Google to step in, but NOT just limit itself to producing/compiling the TV data lists, but also to team/partner with the MythTV team to provide a GoogleTV (GoogleVision??) version of MythTV.
That way they can provide a nice tidy package.
There is a version of SageTV for Linux ...
e en=PROD&Store_Code=SOS&Product_Code=STVLS&Category _Code=SS
http://store.sagetv.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Scr
However, I'm still using SageTV on a Windows box. If my recent switch to Ubuntu for my main computer continues to work as well as it has so far I will upgrade my PVR box to the Linux version. SageTV has been one of the best pieces of software I have ever paid for.
I still have no clue if they are affected by this. Guess I'll check out the SageTV forums next.
Thank you for being the first to thank them.
It sucks that it' shutting down (I use it for GB-PVR)- but they did do it for free for years. Let's not demonize them, no matter the reason, and start looking for alternatives.
Get your Unix fortune now!
Meanwhile, when my local Fox affiliate shows The Simpsons pillarboxed at 720p, the station's bug is in the right pillarbox, not over the image. No generic FOX bug either. A pity the network steps on the credits and the musical accompaniment though; I wanted to hear the whole restyled theme at the end of "24 Minutes".
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Here is something for linux that provides tv listings in a variety of formats. Unfotunately XML is not one of them. Looks like the software costs $29 but can give text info and html. Seems that it gets the data from TVNow.
http://unihedron.com/projects/tvnow/tvnow.php
http://www.tv-now.com//index.html
I'm fairly sure I *wouldn't* want to see the ad for that... *shudders*
MythTV doesn't fast forward, it does commercial skip. Automatically. It hits a commercial break and just jumps past.
Tivo used to allow a really nice FF feature to skip commercials. Now they overlay advertisements on top of the advertisements you are fast forwarding through. Not to mention the advertising in the rest of the UI. If you own one, you should know what I'm talking about. If not, Google found me someone's blog with pictures
All UK channels except ITV are also available as an XML/RSS feed.
I never see ads when I use Tivo's 30 sec skip. That you have to redo the hack after a reboot (admittedly almost never) is bullshit. But I can take the 5 seconds to press Select, Play, Select, 3, 0, Select. Instant 30 second skip anytime you want. This is also good to use during a boring minute or so of a show.
I think you are on to something. I've been keeping tabs on the NZ Mythtv forums & mailing list (am about to move there) and EPG seems an ongoing issue for them.. I've often thought what you've suggested would be their answer.
People further down in the thread suggested that TV channel EPG is right up Google's alley, and I agree... just how do you persuade them???? Hopefully there are a few Mythtv users in the Googleplex that have the sway to pull this off. Google have the funds to purchase the EPG data, AND the customer base to insert ads in the stream (however ads would not be click-able).
Google... please buy ZAP2IT LABS!!! please!!!
This is also bad news for the Canadian TiVo users because the unofficial service relied on feeds from labs.zap2it.com. argh.
The open source hobbyist nature of mythTV attracts the kind of people who'd rather spec out their own hardware and help tweak the software. But the reason you can't find any for sale is probably because you didn't think to look at the ads.
I Browse at +4 Flamebait
Open Source Sysadmin
From the info on the forums.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
It's about time we had TV on-demand for everything. I have been seriously considering the AppleTV for this reason. If I buy only the shows I want to watch, then I could turn around and cut my satellite bill from $65 a month to about $20 a month. I just wish the shows were in xvid format. so I could take them anywhere.
My only current hangup is the 6 and 4 year old. Apple doesn't sell most of the stuff they want to watch on-demand.
Andy
While everyone is mentioning how MythTV is going to ahve issues with this, I would remind everyone that MythTV is not the only program out there relying on the Zap2It data.
I have a program on my Mac (MacProgramGuide) that uses the data, and up until today I was developing my own product using the Zap2it data (for anyone interested - adding a "Season Pass" ability on to the eyeTV software)
Now I am going to have to either give up the project or find another source.
- (c) 2018 Hank Zimmerman
.
The advantanges of MythTV aren't in the guide. The advantages are in the freedom from corporate interests, corporate profits, and corporate bullying. Sure, the guide is important, sure it's an annoyance to lose it, but I frequently send/receive programs I've recorded with MythTV to friends also running MythTV. Some limited function for that is also in other DVRs, but limits are placed, track the path, and result in all kinds of ads.
What will kill MythTv isn't the guide situation, it's the erosion of the Home Recording Act freedoms that Rupert Murdoc, RIAA, MPAA and other main stream media outlets are wetting their pants over.
The other day, someone was telling me that they pay out over USD2,000 per year for cable service. Does it strike you as strange to pay that much to watch a one hour program for 40 minutes of content versus 20 minutes of ads?
The problem is profit. Too much greed ruins anything.
To answer another post about buying a MythTV dvr, and not being able to find one, visit G-DING.TV and download MythDora. Load it on to that old computer you've shoved in the corner because the old windows box has too much spyware and malware on it, and fixing it is more expensive than buying a new computer. Go to Circuit City and buy a USD80.00 Hauppage PVR-150. If you have half way standard old hardware, it's likely you have a working DVR in about an hour. WARNING: IT DOES ERASE THE DISK.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
Every time a feed is lost and a new one is found, every time the guide feed changes, every user has to manually upgrade the software, and it's sure to happen many times in the future..
That is inefficient.
What would be ideal would be if myth boxes could connect to each other to form a peer-to-peer network and share some of their guide data with each other.
Let the authenticity of an entry update (in case of conflicting stories) be determined by the reported source of the update, a vote, and the "age" and reputation of the mythtv installations reporting the listing.
In that manner, when one feed dies, any mythtv user who can would be able to scrape or find listings data and provide it for the benefit of all mythtv users.
Also, no one mythtv node would necessarily need the full listings, they would only need to submit updates randomly based on newly acquired data, and to submit queries based on listings they're interested in.
I.E. channels the user is currently trying to lookup listings for, or channels in the channel lineup for the next few days, and searches for program names the user is interested in or wants recorded every time.
You do get a lot of deliberate obfuscation, though. The biggest one in Australia is YourTV; they're using JavaScript obfuscation like String.fromCharCode(149-(50*2))+ '.' + '3' + '0' + String.fromCharCode(120-8) + 'm'. Easily foiled, but still.
Every single listing has the same comment in it: <!-- PLEASE DON'T RIP. http://yourtv.com.au/legal/?action=copyright -->. (At least they're polite with their threats.)
Network Ten goes to absurd lengths to hide theirs, in the process making the site completely inaccessible to the blind.
I think someone (Yahoo?) uses a JSON API, though, so that one is easy.
I've been using Zap2it with Directv and it never really worked well, instead since I only record cycling races and they only happen so often I check the listing on the Directv box, keep the Mythtv on channel 3 and use it like a vcr, the Directv box is the one that selects the channel and the Mythtv box uses the manual programming to record channel 3 from x time to x time. If not I just do it manually, start the Mythtv box with enter press R (record) come back a few hours later and stop it. Not a big deal, it won't say what program it is on the file but thats ok.
Here you go:
F ront
http://store02.prostores.com/servlet/tvease/Store
My amazing wife - Artist, Author, Philosopher - Laurie M
In Australia, getting TV guide data is a constant struggle due to our odd copyright laws. Since it's possible to claim copyright on a collection of facts, the TV companies banded together, assigned their copyright to one company and then milk it for monopoly profits. Another company, IceTV, started offering subscriptions (around US$12/month) but has been taken to court by the first one. While IceTV claims to have independently built their listings - and even offered to show this to the cartel's lawyers - this matter is still wending its way through court.
The response from the "underground" has been to build scrapers. Lots of scrapers. The guide publishers repond with increasingly complex obfuscation of the listings. Eg have a look at the source for this TV guide.
Yes, there are a number of working scrapers and XMLTV files are accessed - but only by people with a fair amount of technical skills. The rest either pay or go without.
Another approach - also suggested here - has been to set up a wiki with user-populated data, released under Creative Commons. This is operational and useful, but is obviously threatened by the above court action.
In light of Australia's Free Trade Agreement with the US, we can expect "copyright harmonisation". How would Americans feel about getting our bizarre law regarding copyrighting of facts?
http://www.titantv.com/quickguide/quickguide.aspx
I don't know about the schedule format, but TVGuide.com just changed their search result format for at least the second time in two years. Writing a new shell script each time the format changes is a real nuisance.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Meh, the time is rapidly coming where Cable/Satellite will be obsolete. Just look at http://revision3.com/ and see where we are headed. Hell, if you want shows from broadcast tv, most of the stations offer their shows online (I know ABC does). Just embed a browser that can handle a flash plugin and bingo, you can watch any show you want, directly from the networks.
*sigh*
I've been hunting down alternatives to Zap2it for the last month or so
(I've been hearing rumors that the new management have some disdane for
the Open Source community).
so far, I have found not one website with any similar functionality.
I happen to be a MythTV user (and with some help from a good friend,
even had it setup and operating when my previous attempts had failed).
The point is this: unless someone can come up with a "reasonable"
alternative (even if its a "pay service"), I'd jump on it!
Right now though, I just don't see that happening.
anyone else around here have any clues? I'm fresh out.
Understanding is much like a 3-edged-sword. in this: there are always 2 sides and the truth.
Then they'd happily decrypt the data and share it with the world. You're not very informed about cryptography are you? That little module has to have the mechanism (the key and decryption algorithm) to decrypt the data. It's sitting on your computer. You OWN that little module. Source code or not, an intelligent hacker could easily automate the reverse engineering of the module, stealing of the key, decryption of the data, and redistribution of the data. Sorry pal, your plan is full of holes you can't fill. Much larger entities have tried to keep content encrypted (see...oh...THE ENTIRE MOVIE INDUSTRY), but ultimately the consumer has to be able to see the data you're stashed away and thus there's always a hook for an intelligent hacker to subvert your data security model.
Your argument then relies only on the idea that the hacker's effort wouldn't be worth it. That's quite debatable, but flip it around. Where is the incentive for zap2it to sell this data to you and me? Well they'd have to hire some programmers to interface it with their new database system (which is probably the main reason for discontinuation, they refuse to spend money to keep a free service running), programmers to create the subscription payment and distribution framework, programmers for the encryption and mythtv modules. All for what? To have someone within a few days subvert their hard work? Not going to happen. It's obvious the new management over at zap2it (TMS) wants nothing to do with the community or it's free use of their data. They see no incentive to create a paid service for individuals when they obviously already fear piracy of their data. They wish to continue making money from businesses and businesses alone.
Why don't you stop paying? Have you tried reading a book, or going for a walk?
Have a look at soylentnews.org for a different view
Basically, what they're saying is that they will be changing their database structure, and can't be bothered to re-code the Labs.Zap2It part. They'd rather spend the time on other things, like increasing ad revenue.
Bear in mind that TMS charges each station (Somewhere in the region of $75/day) to collect their data, and charges their commercial end-users (somewhere in the region of $500/market/month) to provide the data. Quite a lucrative trade, wouldn't you say? Add to that advertising revenue from their site, and subtract bandwidth fees, and they still make a tidy profit.
It has been theorised that the main reason labs.zap2it was set up was to save bandwidth costs after XMLTV scrapers started hitting their public site. As the data was served up in chunks in the midst of a sea of other information (Links, advertisements, commentary, navigation etc) it cost considerably more in bandwidth, so it made more fiscal sense to offer the data for free, so they could track who was using it and where, along with only having to serve the data itself, with compression and selectivity. This is only a theory, mind, but considering how the Myth community (On it's own, without any of the other projects that were/are using Zap2It feeds) has grown, I think removing this option will drastically increase Zap2It's bandwidth bills without adding any ad revenue back into the pot (A scraper doesn't see ads, and doesn't care about them).
In other words, this could be a costly mistake for TMS. Here's hoping they see sense, and work out a way to work with MythTV and others.
Does anyone else just think this whole situation is crazy? With YouTube and iTunes coming up to make broadcast TV irrelevant the TV companies are still charging or at least restricting the information about what is on TV. Why don't they just have the listings on their websites in XML (XMLTV or TV anytime). They surely the money the make is insignificant compared to the potential of iGoogle plugins, facebook applications and other mashups which make the information more useful.
I note that the BBC offer it's data: http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/data/TvChannelFeeds?v=x eg
You seem to be overlooking the simple fact that tv listings are very localized and channel lineups change with your cable/satellite service. Trying to P2P that would be a clusterfuck.
So, it's just the "free" service they are discontinuing, so it apparently does not affect applications that use a paid-for service, only those applications that rely on the free service (which obviously, affects quite a few.)
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
You can do that with TiVo as well. The series 2 has a PC server program that will let you copy your files off your TiVo onto a PC. Yeah, they have DRM (to keep the MPAA off their backs) but it's hella weak and there are programs out there that strip it off easily*. Windows Media Player asks for a password and then you can play the video.
Multiple TiVos can actually copy videos back and forth. I've only got an 802.11b wifi adapter on my TiVo and it provides slightly better than real-time data transfer rates. I've been archiving off "Good Eats" to my PC since my wife doesn't appreciate having ~40 episodes stored.
The server program also lets you play MP3s and pictures on your TiVo.
*I've managed to strip the DRM off and copy the videos to DVD but there are frame synch issues that irritate me. The audio is just barely off and the video stream flickers; I think it's discarding some frames. I'm not sure if it is a result of the DRM removal or a setting on the DVD recorder.
I've been on slashdot so long I'm starting to get out of touch with the cool stuff if it ain't on slashdot.
Do you own your TiVo, or do you pay a fee for it?
Both. I've got an old Series1 from my inlaws that I don't pay for service and a Series 2 that I do. The Series1 does not get any program guide information due to our lack of a landline.
What we need is a simple tapeless video recorder that lets you watch a show that has already started while it finishes recording. That's all I want, and I want it in a 19" appliance and without any subscription to anything. I haven't found it yet.
Get a cheap TiVo, possibly a used one, and don't pay for service. We program the Series 1 like a regular VCR, by setting the time date and recurrence options. You can still pause live TV and start to watch a show being recorded from the beginning.
I've been on slashdot so long I'm starting to get out of touch with the cool stuff if it ain't on slashdot.
At least internally. The set top boxes take up an IP address too.
I read lots of books -- 20 a year, on average.
I go for walks outside.
Sometimes I also watch TV. Get over it.
Slashdot quality declines as the number of hot grits posts decreases. - Provolt's Law, Apr-09-2005
But are they actually doing this? I still haven't seen a single instance of that on my series 2 tivo, so I just assumed it was something they rolled out on a limited basis to gauge the response and then backed off the idea.
You've given me a whole new reason to never buy a used laptop. *shudder*
Slashdot quality declines as the number of hot grits posts decreases. - Provolt's Law, Apr-09-2005
I guess I'm stuck in the past... On Fridays I slog my way through the Zap2It pages, print (on the back of scratch paper) the weekend and next week's evening listings, staple, and drop on top of the TV. It sounds like this method will still be available.
I work for a television station, and we enter our PSIP information into ProximityTV, which I believe owns TitanTV. To access Proximity, you have to be an employee of a station, but I'm pretty sure it's only so we can enter the info. Anyone can create an account at http://www.titantv.com/ and enter a zip to get your local guide. I have a Hauppauge TV tuner in my pc at work (running Winblows) and I can schedule recordings through Titan. I'm not sure how we could get a data file from Titan to replace Zap2It's. Someone may need to write a program to strip out all the pertinent info that is displayed on a webpage when you enter a zip code and feed it into a file format just like Zap2It's. Create a cron job to run it as often as necesary and hopefully we would all be back in business. Hope this helps! sting
So, if you're not getting value for money, why do you continue to pay it?
Have a look at soylentnews.org for a different view
Who said I didn't get value for the money? I read a lot. I do things outside. I also watch TV. Doing one thing doesn't mean I don't do the others. In fact, a device like the Tivo makes it easier to do the other things you describe. It actually makes more sense to pay for it if I also wish to do those other things.
Slashdot quality declines as the number of hot grits posts decreases. - Provolt's Law, Apr-09-2005
"1. unlimited storage (burn to DVD or copy across LAN to additional fixed drives)
2. customize the scheduler - [where] program.title like '%4400%' and program.originalairdate > '2007-05-01'
3. upgradeable - to go from the 80hr tier to the 160hr tier, (120GB HD about $80)
4. extensible - to go from dual channel to quad channel recording add hauppage 150, about $70
5. portable - backup MySQL data, lift tv card, place new box underneath, restore data
5a. skip data operations if mysql runs on some other machine
6. phone-line free operation
7. ad-free operation
8. schedule online from your own webserver
9. watch online from your own webserver"
Some of the things you listed, a TiVo is quite capable of. Why comment on something you're ignorant about?
"( Series 2 )"
You assumed I was talking about the series 2. You were wrong.
The rest of your post is mooted as a result.
Why do you think using an obsolete product as a comparison made sense?
http://www.google.com/products?q=Pioneer+DVR-810H
http://www.google.com/products?q=Pioneer+DVR-57H&
http://www.google.com/products?btnG=Search&hl=en&
Totally ripped off from another poster. I patiently await your Mea Culpa (I suspect I'll be waiting indefinitely, your kind rarely admits they fucked up).
MythTV already comes preconfigured with at least two Linux distributions:
MythDora (Fedora-based)
KnoppMyth (Debian-based)
Absurdity: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion. -- Ambrose Bierce
http://www.google.com/search?q=TiVo+basic&ie=utf-8 &oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&clie nt=firefox-a
In the future, don't assume your snarkiness can be used as a replacement for factual accuracy.
http://www.google.com/search?q=TiVo+basic&ie=utf-8 &oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&clie nt=firefox-a
Free TiVo basic. FREE. NO COST. GRATIS.
I am REALLY REALLY tired of people posting what they think is fact but is actually only proof of ignorance.
I never, for a minute, said my plan didn't have "potential holes" in it. There *are* encryption schemes nobody has been able to break yet (look at the currently used Dish Network and DirecTV satellite cards, for example) - but even those will be "broken" someday. If nothing else, a disgruntled employee could eventually leak out the secrets - since the decryption info has to be kept somewhere.
It *always* comes down to using encryption or password protection as a deterrence. Just like the lock on your front door, it can easily be picked in seconds by a skilled professional. But it does keep many amateurs out, who would otherwise walk in and take something of value if they knew no lock was in place at all.
I'm at a loss to see why zap2it considers this data so "secret", though? They're pedaling publicly available information that's published *all the time*. They simply add some value by sending it out efficiently, in a standardized format your computer can easily download and work with. The "incentive" for them to at least try to sell it inexpensively to you and me? Simply the fact that either they take their $2 a month or whatever from whoever will pay, or they don't - and someone ELSE takes that same money. They've already got the infrastructure in place, so it's an easier $2/month for them to collect than for anyone else starting from scratch. But it will happen.
[quote]And to think I pay $69 a month for this bullshit.[/quote] My initial reply, regarding value for money, was to dosius if you follow the parent links. I'm not sure how you came to think I was directing it to you....?
Have a look at soylentnews.org for a different view
Actually a hacked DTIVO will do MORE than a standard S2 TIVO will! Suggest Googling Zipper and TIVO. Actually, I did it for you -> http://www.mastersav.com/tivo_zipper.html
Extraction, sharing among TIVO units, and more!
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
"I think you missed the parent thread, where we were talking about a $100 Tivo."
- Progressive-Scan-Digital/dp/B0000AA9E8
No, I didn't miss the thread, but you WERE NOT talking about a $100 TiVo, you were throwing estimates around and 100 was the number you used. Please show me the quote where you clearly specify that the only TiVo you were discussing was the 100 dollar one.
"I couldn't find any for sale after a quick search"
Uh, WHAT?
http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-SD-H400-Combination
There's one right there.
No, what really happens is that you thought TiVo didn't have a free service, and when shown to be wrong, you rushed to find qualifiers to discount what you had overlooked.
You were wrong. Be a fucking man and admit it, instead of making up silly caveats to try and weasel out.
your comment spurred the thought that advertising seems to be reverting to what it consisted of originally. Take "The Office" for example. That show purposely incorporates ads for their sponsor directly into their programming...
it's really not that bad though. Personally, if all shows went that route, then I wouldn't mind.
Welcome to 2017. Digital cable is now 150 channels of infomercials.note I said "unlimited". Tivo storage on the network hardly qualifies. Besides which you need the ToGo bagware. Doesn't run on my platform so there's another limitation.
Son, we live in a world that has lines of code and those lines of code need to be written by nerds with vi. Who's gonna do it? You? You, CowboyNeal?
I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for MythTV and curse Zap2It; you have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that MythTV's current system, while tragic, probably saved time and that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves time.
You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you want me working on that bug, you need me working on that bug!
We use words like object, code, binary. We use then as the backbone of a life trying to develop something. You use them as a punchline! I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very software I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.
I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you start up an editor and send a patch.
Either way, I don't give a damn what you think is inefficient!
PS : no hard feelings - I just wanted to [ab]use the quote!
One man's constant is another man's variable.
Who looks at ads?
I remember a time when the Internet was free of advertising. Now, I just ignore them.
Someone on the zap2it forums wrote this: >I suspect part of the situation is due to an agreement with a commercial customer trying to maximize their profit by forcing zap2it to agree not to provide for free what the customer is selling. I replied: It's Microsoft (stating the obvious) Funny that my message was deleted by the mods. The original poster's message remained. I'm not the type of guy that sees Microsoft as the big evil, but they are up to no good these days due to slow Vista sales (MCE, of course, uses zap2it). They want all computer based DVRs to be gone. They want linux gone. They want anything that competes with any of their products to be gone (it's always been this way). I'd start worrying if I was a user of any of the linux distributions that Ms has done a deal with. They won't last very long or will be moulded to crap so nobody will want them anyways.
Karma: Neutered
That should have said "MythTV doesn't "just fast forward" or merely. Fast forward is the only way to bypass commercials on Tivo, whereas on mythtv a commercial break just looks like a scene change.
Read some of the discussions the TIVO folks have on this! Multiple cable sources, OTA, and multiple SAT can all be had in a single spot. Different cable and SAT packages just make this worse. It's a nightmare to keep up with for a general purpose box and it's no wonder to me that services charge for this. A P2P solution might work to lower load on a single source, which seems to have been the issues here, but coming up with a way for everyone to describe exactly what data they ened for their specific geo area and offerings would certainly be a challenge! Me, I just use a DTIVO :-)
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
"I already did show you which Tivo I was referring to."
No, you're a liar.
"Or at least..."
OH SO the truth comes out. You did, then didn't. Like I said, a liar.
"nope he didn't "fucked up" as your bad english puts it."
Hmm, I fucked up, we fucked up, she fucked up, they fucked up, it fucked up, sorry little guy, even though you posted AC, I know it's you. And there's nothing wrong with the english, are you really that stupid?
"that is NOT free tivo service."
FIne, it's a TiVo service for which you pay nothing. OH WAIT THAT MEANS FUCKING FREE! Are you really that fucking stupid?
"Try again fuckup."
At least you were nice enough to sign you post AC. Thanks!
"It's clear that you're just trolling, but really - is that the only way you could find to tear apart my post?"
No, of course not. Just the most glaring and obvious. Is this the only way you could think of to draw attention away from your lies?
"Seems silly to try to redirect the discussion by accusing me of lying to you when all I did was clearly point out where my originally quoted numbers came from."
Not to me. You lied, why pretend that anything else in your post matters after that?
"Could you at least make a token effort to respond to the points I made?"
No, you're a liar. You'll just lie when you're wrong like you did before.
"You may be a troll, but you're not a very good one."
SOP for people like you, get caught lying, get caught being wrong, accuse the other guy of being a troll because you are a liar and were wrong so your only hope is to draw attention away from your lies.
Stop lying and I might pay attention to you. But probably not.
Sorry - I'm interested in episode descriptions - not generic show descriptions that apply to the whole series. Oh wait...