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YouTube Video Warned About School Shooting
mytrip writes to tell us that CNN is reporting at least eight dead in a Finland school shooting that was apparently planned out in graphic videos posted to YouTube. "YouTube appeared to have removed 89 videos linked to his account, many of them featuring Nazi imagery, shortly after the incident. Finnish media reported someone posted a message two weeks ago on the Web site, warning of a bloodbath at the school. A video posted earlier Wednesday, by 'Sturmgeist89,' was titled 'Jokela High School Massacre - 11/7/2007.' 'Sturmgeist89' identified himself as Auvinen, and said he chose the name 'Sturmgeist' because it means 'storm spirit' in German."
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slashdot post warns about goatse
The shooter left a few documents (including a 'manifesto', a video of him shooting his 0.22 pistol in the woods and picture of himself) open to the public;
Freaky stuff....
No Bueno man, No bueno.
I blame video games.
/bracing for media hysteria to follow
Well, someone had to say it.
While you're at it, ban guns, condoms, Gucci, sharp objects, blunt objects, Hello Kitty, the internet, pipes, pr0n, "Humanity is overrated" T-shirts, cottage cheese, IBM, plastic rulers, bubble gum, cloned sheep, ballpoint pens, Ray-Ban glasses, Fark, and Day-Glo. Oh, and CowboyNeal.
The children. Think of the children, for god's sake.
Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
Clearly YouTube is at fault here. I mean, people aren't responsible for their own actions, so we need to blame someone. I hope the people at YouTube can sleep at night...
/sarcasm
-Arthur
Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules
Sturmgeist is a Norwegian metal band.
This is modded +1 Interesting? The above comment is offensive since it implicitly questions the existence of the Holocaust with the use of the quotation marks around the word.
No. The correct solution is to arrest anybody who posts videos on YouTube.
The masses are the crack whores of religion.
How else could career politicians stay in power other than to appease the masses with knee-jerk measures that strip a small piece of freedom away? Who needs the long-term big picture when there are kids dying today?
~ I am logged on, therefore I am.
What's to say he's not insane? Do those tricks work outside of the U.S.? (I realize full well that not all of those cases are "tricks," but I've seen enough to not buy into it for the majority of folks in the U.S.)
Are you joking or in LSD?
I hate those morons as much as the next guy, but come one, they have the right to be idiots, just not the one to hurt other people!
def greetings(x): return {'friend': 'Howdy', 'enemy': 'Dye [sic]'}.get(x, 'g0 4w4y, l4m0r')
That's ridiculous and stupid. He tended to show a smug arrogance, thinking that "the weak-minded masses" were stupid and didn't deserve to live. It reminds me of a lot of the attitudes that I encounter on slashdot, including yours.
.: Max Romantschuk
I took the parent's post as a joke since he's obviously advocating a neo-Nazi ideology...
However, Finland has a unique relationship with Nazism that Americans and other Europeans don't really know much about. The history of Finland during the Second World War is quite different from any other country. To a certain extent, the Nazis could be argued as the saviours of Finland, because historically Finland's greatest struggle has always been with Russia.. and to that extent, Germany was a natural ally during WW2.
The dichotomy is that the Finns are a democratic and fair-minded people, and the Nazis were exactly the opposite. But as the famous saying goes, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" - and this is precisely what happened during the war.
I'm not saying that Finns are fascists, and I'm not even saying that *many* Finns are fascists, but what I am saying is that perhaps Finland is the *only* state that at least partly owes its ongoing independence to co-operation with the Nazis. That's why I'm not completely surprised to read about Auvinen's Nazi obsession.. it's a disturbing secret of Finnish history.
Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com
I was wondering the same thing, the sad part is there really are people who think the basic human right of free speech means anything not offensive so its kind hard to tell if the GP is serious or not..
M.A.D. It worked for your superpowers. Now let's make it work for you.
un burrito me trampeó.
Just be sure everybody uses hollowpoints. Over penetration is a bitch.
"My new account name is German and means "Stormspirit" in English." So I wouldn't be so sure that he chose it because of that band.
If you want to further natural selection, fuck a lot and have as many children as possible. Make lots of money to distribute to the most smart/healthy/ambitious of your sons so that they can also get lots of women. But don't stop there - there is always a chance and, in our society, a probability that others will be taken care by someone else and live to reproduce. Make frequent sperm donations to clinics as well. Why not?
The most stupid thing you can do is go on a mass shooting and then kill yourself. You are only eliminating a statistically insignificant number of competitors for your children and other relatives. If you could take over the whole country and do a proper genocide of people, especially men, with different nationality from yours and then setup a huge harem it might be different. But even then, you will plunge the country into chaos that will not be good even for your decentdents' survival and reproduction.
This guy should definitely make a Darwin award, if only because he mentioned evolution before eliminating himself from the gene pool.
There was no suggestion of anyone blaming YouTube in the summary or in the article. WTF?
Systemd: the PulseAudio of init systems
And lower-powered rounds. No need for (since it's Finland) 7.62x54R when x39 or x25 will do.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
No one 'plans' an assassination by uploading videos to the public. He was just trying to reach out to people with similar thoughts. The videos told a story of a guy who was greatly influenced by extreme violence inspired by x and y, but that's hardly a shout-out saying "I'm planning to kill 8 people".
I could bet a few bucks on that this guy plays violent games like Counter-Strike and that the gaming business is going to take yet another unfair punch because some retarded guy couldn't differentiate fantasy from reality.
Full Tilt
No, they shouldn't be arrested but simply shot on sight.
Officer: "Are you H4wTKat666?"
H4wTKat666: "lolz yaeh y?"
Officer: "Did you post this?"
*lolz OMG u r a fag. tHeys is FAKE!11!oneone*
H4wTKat666; "lolz yaeh"
*Officer shoots H4wTKat666*
I guess in afterthought, this could be in bad taste. Oh well.
You're thinking small. Why miniaturize the laser, when we could instead enlarge the sharks? -John Searle
Thats not what your mum says....sorry couldn't help it it just kinda exploded out of my mind and through the keyboard.
...and place them in camps!
Just -1, Troll talking to another.
That's not a crazy idea, that's the most retarded idea I've ever heard.
Yes, lets give children guns, look at how well thats working out for them in African countries in civil war.
Abaddon: An Xbox 360 Indie game
Yes, well, most of the moderators are too mentally retarded and too shallow in their knowledge of history and of various vile movements like neo-Nazis and Holocaust Deniers to recognize one of these repugnant groups taglines.
Shame on the moderator involved, and shame on everyone that helped to get this fucking retard any karma at all. You're pathetic and useless, and just as bad as the Holocaust Denying scumbag you moded up.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I can't confirm this, but I think this is the original video removed from YouTube. If so, it isn't that interesting (except, perhaps, the telling title).
People who knew this guy on YouTube saw it coming. See http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pq56CjUA0C4 which was made back in June (a few others videos were made too).
The person who made that video has since given their thoughts on the shooting: http://youtube.com/watch?v=GIKUWgsIncg
Then don't open the fucking topic, you half-wit toadhead.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I think the problem here is obvious: freely available online video content causes violence! What we need is anti-freely-available-online-video-content legislation. It's the only way to save our outdated ways from the children! Maybe Jack Thompson has a twin that could take up this torch?
-G
Their may be a grammatical error, misspeling, or evn a typo in this post.
How is this nerd news?
He posted to YouTube! (That's on the intarweb) /. readers)
He is an alienated youth! (like many
Linus Torvalds is also Finnish! (though they probably did not know each other)
Geek - O - Rama
If you had RTFA, you would have seen that hunting is popular in Finland, and out of five million total population there are two million guns in circulation. Legal guns, that is. They are educated. Also, this was nothing like an AK-47. You could be being sarcastic, but unfortunately I doubt it. So get your facts straight.
Oh come on, we don't think the weak-minded masses should be killed, we just think they should use OpenOffice.org!
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
That's not a good idea, and this is why:
1. Just because everyone has guns and is theoretically "educated about their use," that doesn't mean all of them are good shots. One man with a gun will cause less destruction than if there's one man with a gun and sixty people trying to shoot him. That many guns going off would probably lead to more causualties, not fewer.
2. When the police arrive on the scene, they will see many people with guns. How will they tell which one is the maniac and which are the innocent people trying to protect themselves? When there's only one guy with a gun, the police can tell instantly which one is the dangerous one.
Did they contain copyrighted material? Were they placed there against the owner's will?
"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
I've seen enough anti-Semitic monsters on Usenet that I don't take anything for granted. These people do exist, and do use the Internet to get their lies and venom out there. Matt Giwer is probably one of the most infamous, and one that I've crossed paths with a few times.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Don't forget to ban twitter.
Was this before of after the shooting? And is it on JewTube?
Now go back to your xbox.
As the bumper sticker says, "An armed society is a polite society."
would you want to HAVE a convenience store if you knew most of your customers had guns?
Subscribers: 120
:) My new account name is German and means "Stormspirit" in English.
Channel Views: 72,410
aka NaturalSelector89 (3/15/2007 - 10/19/2007).
YouTube suspended my previous account but I am back now
http://rapidshare.com/files/68 015773/Pekka-Eric_Auvinen___Jo kela_High_School_Massacre.zip
Name: Pekka-Eric Auvinen
Age: 18
Male from Finland.
I am a cynical existentialist, antihuman humanist, antisocial socialdarwinist, realistic idealist and godlike atheist.
SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM! JUSTITIA SUUM CUIQUE DISTRIBUIT! SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS!
I am prepared to fight and die for my cause. I, as a natural selector, will eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race and failures of natural selection.
You might ask yourselves, why did I do this and what do I want. Well, most of you are too arrogant and closed-minded to understand... You will proprably say me that I am"insane", "crazy", "psychopath", "criminal" or crap like that. No, the truth is that I am just an animl, a human, an individual, a dissident.
I have had enough. I don't want to be part of this fucked up society. Like some other wise people have said in the past, human race is not worth fighting for or saving... only worth killing. But... When my enemies will run and hide in fear when mentioning my name... When the gangsters of the corrupted governments have been shot in the streets... When the rule of idioracy and the democratic system has been replaced with justice... When intelligent people are finally free and rule the society instead of the idiocratic rule of majority... In that great day of deliverance, you will know what I want.
Long live the revolution... revolution against the system, which enslaves not only the majority of weak-minded masses but also the small minority of strong-minded and intelligent individuals! If we want to live in a different world, we must act. We must rise against the enslaving, corrupted and totalitarian regimes and overthrow the tyrants, gangsters and the rule of idiocracy. I can't alone change much but hopefully my actions will inspire all the intelligent people of the world and start some sort of revolution against the current systems. The system discriminating naturality and justice, is my enemy. The people living in the world of delusion and supporting this system are my enemies.
I am ready to die for a cause I know is right, just and true... even if I would lose or the battle would be only remembered as evil... I will rather fight and die than live a long and unhappy life.
And remember that this is my war, my ideas and my plans. Don't blame anyone else for my actions than myself. Don't blame my parents or my friends. I told nobody about my plans and I always kept them inside my mind only. Don't blame the movies I see, the music I hear, the games I play or the books I read. No, they had nothing to do with this. This is my war: one man war against humanity, governments and weak-minded masses of the world! No mercy for the scum of the earth! HUMANITY IS OVERRATED! It's time to put NATURAL SELECTION & SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST back on tracks!
Justice renders to everyone his due.
Country: Finland
Occupation: Unemployed Philosopher, Outcast
Companies: Human Race (evolved one step above though)
Interests and Hobbies: Existentialism, Freedom, Truth, Misantrophy, Social / Personality Psychology, Evolution Science, Political Incorrectness, Women, BDSM, Guns (I love you Catherine), Shooting, Computer Games, Sarcasm, Irony, Mass / Serial Killers, Macabre Art, Black Comedy, Absurdism
Films and Shows: The Matrix, A View To A Kill, Falling Down, Natural Born Killers, Reservoir Dogs, Last Man Standing, Full Metal Jacket, Dr. Butcher MD (aka Zombie Holocaust), Saw 1-3, Lord Of War, The Deer Hunter, True Romance, The Untouchables, 28 Days Later, 28 Weeks Later, Idiocracy, They Live, Apocalypse Now, End Of Days, The Shining, The Dead Zone, Dr. Strangelove,
This is what escalation does: if no-one has a weapon, you can threaten them with a knife. If everybody has a knife, you can threaten them with a gun. If everybody has a gun, you don't threaten them, you kill them before they can get you.
In all of these scenarios the unscrupulous win, but the outcome from the POV of the victim is quite different.
He's got a Unibrow! ..oh, wait. So do all my geek friends...
how could we have not connected the dots?!?! Oh yeah that's right, hindsight is a bit easier than foresight.
Here's the problem... Would I try to rob a gas station if I knew the clerk was armed? No. But I wouldn't try to rob the gas station anyway.
Would a strung out tweaker who's been up for 12 days try to rob a gas station, knowing the clerk was armed? Quite possibly, and would've just made it easier for him to obtain a weapon, and know how to use it.
Furthermore, what if you THOUGHT someone was about to rob the gas station, when they were only pulling out their gun-shaped novelty lighter? Would you shoot that person?
It's a nice argument in theory.. But it assumes that people 1.) are rational, and 2.) don't mistake others' intentions.
"Hello, I'm Bob and I have freely available, online video content."
Hi, Bob!
Anonymous Cowards suck.
God the PATRIOT act is a fricking nightmare. Has it made anyone safer?
The real issue is, 9/11 won't happen again. As a country, we've learned our lesson about "just sit tight and wait" when it comes to plane hijacking. Box cutter? You best have a flamethrower next time, because me and everyone in business class are going to beat you to death with our laptops as soon as you start trying to wave that piddly crap in our faces. Akbar Macbook, Bitch!
It was a surprise. People bought it. That day has passed. But in response we have done unto ourselves far worse things than they could have ever hoped to have accomplished. Massively stupid.
And we will have other successful attacks on our soil. It's inevitable that, over time, everyone will miss someone. The occasional deranged teen will go on a shooting rampage. The occasional terrorist will pull off a successful attack.
But the fact that there is a possible danger is not a reason to upend your entire society. Analyze, find your mistakes, and correct them...Don't throw out a system that failed once, and try to replace it whole cloth with something new, designed by committee! Ridiculous.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
I actually agree with your sentiment. The problem with societies when it comes to arms is the mixed opinions on having arms. If either extreme ever happened the amount of violent crime would drop siginifcantly. Basically if 100% of people had guns or 100% of people did not have guns the effect would be basically the same.
The problem is 100% of people having handguns is more likely to happen as you cannot take guns away from people who illegal posses them.
I don't know what kind of place you live in, but where I live having someone try to gun down a crowd with an AK-47 is a very rare occurance. It's never happened to me. I don't even know anyone who has had that happen to them.
I've never been present at an armed robbery of a gas station or a convenience store either. When I go into a gas station or a convenience store I do tend to be on the look out for rude people or people who are likely to escalate a minor incident into a major confrontation but armed robbery is way down the list of things I worry about.
What I do see on a regular basis is people getting sufficiently angry with each other that if guns were available then the guns would have been used.
It would be the wild west all over again: "Well, yer honer, he moved his hand toward his gun." "Yeah? Well, he actually put hi hand on his gun." "Yeah? Well, he actually pulled his gun out of its holster" "Yeah? Well, he actually pointed his gun at me." "Yeah? Well, he actually pulled the trigger first." You would end up with a bizarre situation where a person could be shot just for removing their gun from their holster.
Ultimately, we have to accept that the cure can be worse than the disease. Sure, it's tragic when some kid does a school shooting - but it would also be tragic if minor misunderstandings were to escalate on a regular basis into shoot-outs between generally decent people.
In parts of the world (or back in the days of the wild west) where there is no police force then having everyone carry their own guns makes some kind of sense. On the other hand, when there is the option of a police force then the downsides of having everyone carry guns outweighs the upsides.
Just like Gangs! They all have guns, and never shoot each other! :)
is how desensitized people are to this type of violence. One of my co-workers is friends with an individual that attends that school. He made a joke "Well at least I get to take the rest of the week off and do some drinking!".
Word of advice, you fuckwit: the Will to Power does not involve random murder. Nor does killing a bunch of people including yourself count as a good move, evolutionarily speaking.
Shit. If I didn't know he'd actually done it, I'd think this was a joke. You couldn't get a more perfect stereotype of the school shooter. This is just made for the media - I almost wonder if he wrote this on purpose, to give them something to chew on afterwards...
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Incorrect.
1. One man with a gun will shoot until people brave enough can close and overpower him. There are precious few people of that nature, obviously, borne out by the story. The sixty people will be aiming at the one man and funneling their shots into a small space. He will be swiss-cheesed in short order.
2. The many survivors will all point to the puddle of bullet ridden excrement and tell the police who started the crap. Police rarely arrive on the scene until after violence has abated. In those instances when they do arrive on time, here in the US, they are pretty good at telling which ones are shooting at the bad guys, whether you believe that or not.
"Give everyone guns. Educate them about their use."
Here in the United States, practically everyone has a car, and somewhere over 99% of those have obtained a license ostensibly proving that they've been educated in their use. And yet the road is still full of people acting like idiots and jeopardizing both their own lives as well as those around them (case in point).
Do you really want to give those people guns?
"Next time some idiot points his AK-47 at a crowd"
He'll be guaranteed to have access to a firearm in your fantasy, resulting in more deaths than may have occurred otherwise. Your fantasy is only a net benefit if there is already unrestricted access to firearms, if the potential shooter is guaranteed access to a weapon.
"In fact, would you try to rob a gas station or convinience store if you knew the clerk was armed and, probably, most of the people shopping in there?"
You're equating "Has a firearm" with "Is willing to get involved in a gunfight." Even in the instances where a gun was lawfully used in self defense, how often does the other person also have a gun?
Besides, if you're going to rob a store with a gun, your is (obviously) already drawn, meaning that the store clerk (or whoever else has a gun on them) is at a disadvantage, having to first draw and aim their weapon before you get off a shot. And there's nothing like a sudden, fast movement to get the attention of a nervous, jittery robber.
You see. I'm modded troll by yet another mentally retarded moderator. What a pack of fucking idiots. They have the collective IQ of a mouldy egg sandwich.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
That doesn't necessarily mean someone implicitly questions the existence of the 'holocaust'. Maybe they just think it's silly that there's a special word for genocide against jews. I know I do. Genocides have happened throughout history, there's nothing particularly special about the genocide of the jews during WWII that should get it a special term. In fact, I think the fact that there is a special term smacks of racism. That somehow the 8 million jews that were killed by the nazis were more important than the 12 million who died at the hands of Stalin, or the millions of Native Americans killed by the US government.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
The gunman has apparently died of his wounds. At least that's the last needless death we can expect to come from this particular saga.
"Quite possibly, and would've just made it easier for him to obtain a weapon, and know how to use it."
That sentence doesn't make any sense. An armed clerk would make it easier for him to obtain a weapon how? Not presuming, as you might be that he would of course kill the clerk. It also has no bearing whatsoever on his knowing how to use a weapon.
No. The vast majority of gun owners do not act in that manner and in all probablilty would recognize the novelty item or at least hold the draw on him until he dropped it. In real life situations, not your vested action scenario, people do not shoot first and ask later. Quite the opposite.
And you assume, 1) people are irrational and 2) they will screw up. Neither extreme is accurate, but stats point toward my view instead of yours. We know the armed robber is violent and has no concern for other's welfare. One might ask why you would wish that only he be armed?
So, he was Libertarian... it's almost like from the pen of Ayn Rand, except that she made it all voluntary :)
I want to play Free Market with a drowning Libertarian.
It's so annoying seeing great comments modded down or criticised just because the moderator/responder was too daft to comprehend what was written. But then, I'm prepared to fight for people's right to be stupid dumbasses.
When we're done, I'll buy you a sense of humor. Having to dissect and explain my own attempts at it are really depressing, so I want to avoid it in the future.All you'll get is someone who learns to laugh at slapstick. You can't buy them a sense of humour because you can't buy them an intellect.
The Holocaust? There are many holocausts in the history of warfare. Can you be more specific? Are you referring to World War II? You'd still have to be more specific. The Chinese claim that the Japanese killed nearly 20 million civilians including those of the Rape of NanJing. Or perhaps the 19 million Russian civilians that died as a result of the scorch the earth tactics and having been displaced during the harsh Russian winter? Let's just forget the 27 million Russian solders because they had it coming being drafted into the military to defend their count. Right? Or perhaps the Armenian and Assyrian Genocides perpetrated before this by the Ottoman Empire? Or more recently you could be referring to the Bosnian, the Rwandan and the Darfur Genocides? Or just maybe you could be referring to the complete and utter genocide of the Canaanites? So the singular name "The Holocaust" is offensive in and of itself and somewhat ethnocentric if you are referring solely to the holocaust that was perpetrated by the Nazis against the 11 million people in Germany and Poland.
their/**there**/they're.
The fact of the matter is that we'd be speaking Russian here w/o the Germans, and very cunning leaders of our own. We do owe the germans big time, in this. Just to give an example, look at this rather famous battle of Tali-Ihantala.
This was a very important battle: "The Battle of Tali-Ihantala, along with other successful Finnish victories achieved during the period, finally convinced the Soviet leadership that conquering Finland was extremely hard, and not worth the cost."
And as it happens, we had probably decisive help from the Germans, in that one, too:
On a more personal note, I still get to speak the language of my ancestors, and hence it's hard to think too badly of our past German overlords. And this has nothing to do w/nazi sympathies. One of my past relatives even fought the Russians in the German eastern front. Also, some of my now past family lost all of their lands to the Russians, everything. So to many it may seem that the Germans were the Big Evil, but to us it was the Russians. And really, Stalin was a way more accomplished mass-murderer than Hitler, but that's another story entirely.
The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne
you can play with rocket launchers in your back yard, pledge eternal devotion to hitler, and ramble on and on about the craziest shit
none of theat matters
but when you threaten a school, no matter how obliquely, you should be arrested
this guy did that. the rest doesn't matter
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
no, buddy.. you're modded troll because you were inciting them.. perhaps flamebait would be more appropriate, but you got modded down because of your own statements.
I dig why you'd be upset, but it ain't good karma.
http://www.xkcd.com/354/
This assertion is confirmed by the BBC.
Burns: We're building a casino!
McAllister: Arrr. Give me 5 minutes.
actually, IIRC, Finland is the fairly gun-happy (53 firearms per 100 people, though they include flare guns in that (burning magnesium + human flesh = ?)).
FTR, i believe the US has 90 per 100 people.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
Ah, I know you were trying to be funny but ... M.A.D. did work.
... odds are he won't last very long anyway.
But this isn't really a MAD situation. It's an issue of whether or not people can reliably depend upon law enforcement for prevention of these kinds of crimes. It's not possible, of course, and any honest cop will tell you that about all he can do is pick up the pieces afterward and try to halt further carnage. The only deterrent that might affect someone who is planning a massacre is the sure knowledge that he won't get very far, whereas in an unarmed society, he can go pretty much as far as he likes. One presumes that there might be someone so off-his-rocker that he doesn't care about the fact he'll be facing deadly force the second he starts his rampage. And that's okay
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Umm, I think the survivors of a particular genocide can call it whatever the fuck they want and we should respect the name they choose.
In terms of your comparisons. I think there are special circumstances that differentiate the Jew's genocide and treatment by the nazi's. They weren't just exterminated, they weren't just ostracized from society, they were tortured, starved, experimented on, persecuted, and so on. They can use both titles due to the extent of their suffering. For your Info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide
OSGGFG - Open Source Gamers Guide to Free Games
Or the Armenian Genocide just prior to that during WWI.
You are already banned, since like all good trolls and crapflooders your account is at -50 karma or something, so you can only post what, twice a day? And troll as AC, I guess. You do know that negative moderation of AC posts is tied to your IP address, correct? I'm guessing soon you'll have to resort to using open proxies and whatnot.
You could of course just use your sockpuppet account, but I'm guessing that one is also on the slippery karma slope by now, as expected.
Sucks to be you :)
Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
It is true that Finland has quite large number of guns (I think part of it is explained by large number of rifles used for hunting), but I think it is at least a bit misleading to call Finland gun happy.
For example, I think carrying a gun in everyday life is a big no-no and probably in most cases even illegal. Practically only polimen are allowed to carry a gun with them. And if you use a weapon for self defence situation, you will most likely receive heavy sentence even if you were in danger and you don't even hit anybody with the bullet.
I think most of the guns are at least somewhat hidden. Because of that most Finns think that guns are pretty rare in Finland even though according to statistics there seems to be quite many guns.
Where are your statistics coming from? Nationally, 13% of fatal accidents are caused by unlicensed drivers. This is why illegal aliens should be given a way to obtain a driver's license without the fear of deportation. Second, who said that a the license is ostensibly proving that they've been educated in the operation of a motor vehicle? Compared to some other nations, the licensing requirements in the USA are very low. The by-product of a culture that practically requires every resident to operate a vehicle.
This culture guarantees that people that would prefer not to drive, or feel uncomfortable driving, must get behind the wheel anyway.
That's a poor analogy. The reason MAD was so frightening and why the world has been working towards reducing the threat level is because in the event of MAD, life on Earth as we know it would end.
:)
In the event of a crazy person with a gun going on a shooting spree, he might kill a few people before getting shot down and then the violence would be over and the rest of the world gets on with their lives, since our infrastructure has not been significantly affected.
That's not to say having everyone walk about armed is a good idea.
Umm, I think the survivors of a particular genocide can call it whatever the fuck they want and we should respect the name they choose
But does that mean everyone has to now use an insider name 'The Holocaust' that was meant at the time of its use to unify a people? And you are kind of downplaying the other suffering that was just as profound. There were rapes, tortures, starvations, experiments and persecutions in the other genocides as well. Who are we to compare or minimize their untold suffering.
Let me guess, they know it by the color of the skin, right?
According to some news, the shooted had long history of being bullying victim at school.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Doesn't seem the type to deserve the whole "quick and painless".
He can watch YouTube in hell (they have iPhones there).
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Guns don't kill people. NRA kills people.
Basically if 100% of people had guns or 100% of people did not have guns the effect would be basically the same.
So if you attended a class or workplace, you'd feel as safe if every colleague in the room had a gun as you would if none of them had a gun? Yeah, right...
The problem is 100% of people having handguns is more likely to happen as you cannot take guns away from people who illegal posses them.
Problem with this is that the Bad Guys always have the upper hand. They are more desparate, more fucked up, less rational, more opportunistic, and they strike first. More often than not you simply can't defend against that, no matter how many hypothetical fantasies you make up where guns save the day and everyone goes home happy. 100% gun carrying would simply mean more aggressive crime, more shots fired, and more wounding/maiming/death. Plus, having such high availability of guns would mean more suicide and more chance a gun will be used in disputes.
More guns = more cunts shooting people. And yes, we're all cunts now and then.
Okay, first of all, it would be easier for him to obtain it because EVERYONE would be armed and would be trained in firing a weapon. That includes criminals. To this you'll likely respond something to the extent of "but we would only train non-criminals in the use of guns", to which I would respond "nobody is a criminal until they commit a crime. Of course, that previously non-criminal individual who just because a criminal would already have advance training in the use of firearms."
And as for my assumptions.. Okay, lets see a couple of examples of what would happen if I was wrong. So for the sake of argument:
1.) People are rational. This means that wars are only fought in self defense, people believe in God because they have irrefutable proof, and television commercials only bring awareness to the best products, and this is why people buy them (rather than being bombarded by them and merely picking these items out of familiarity).
2.) People do not screw up. Ever. Crimes are never committed because police always arrive just in time (of course, the criminal also gets away with the loot because he can't screw up either), every student gets a 4.0 GPA, and there are no security flaws in Windows (or Linux, or FreeBSD, or OSX, etc.)
Seriously, a large portion of people are not rational, and I doubt there's a person alive who has never screwed up on something.
The last part is a straw man, painting me as one who wishes for only criminals to be armed. Nice.
Look, I used to subscribe to the same viewpoint on the subject. It seems great, until you remember that the general populace is composed primarily of dumbasses who do not act responsibly. It's the same reason that communism fails when attempted on any large scale. Much like a chain being only as strong as its weakest link, a completely armed society is only as safe as its stupidest members decide to make it (and a communist society is only as fair as its greediest members). Not to mention all of the people who would kill someone and then claim they were attacked. After all, the other guy ALWAYS has a gun, so the claim of self-defense becomes ubiquitously reliable when there's no witnesses around.
Oh, and having a gun doesn't necessarily protect you from a criminal with a gun. Just ask Dick Chaney's hunting partner.
Here are two of the videos.
In this one he is target practicing on an apple:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=90d_1194444897
This video is a bunch of stills; a picture of his school, and various pictures of him with his gun:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=369_1194449557
Dan East
Better known as 318230.
Save a Mentally Ill Person, Save the World.
There was recently a public service announcement on TV that went somewhere along the lines of: Yeah, your friend may flake out on you, or act withdrawn sometimes, but what someone suffering from a mental illness needs most is a friend.
I know that it is human nature for people to make friends with people who fit in similar niches as themselves. And maybe in an idealized view of smaller communities of yesteryear, someone suffering from a mental illness would be more accepted, if only out of necessity (or maybe not). But it is not hard to imagine how in modern society, with so much emphasis on a mobile society and independence, that a person with only a mild case of mental illness could find themselves suddenly isolated and without a support group of family and friends. This could make an illness that was once barely noticeable to become dishabilitating.
Yes, people are free to choose to improve there circumstances or seek assistance, but if there is anything which Nazism and Stalinism taught us it is that even normal people can act in horrible ways given the (im)proper environment. And before this analogy is lost on you, remember that people with mental illnesses generally have either genetically-determined imbalances in their brain chemistries, or else traumatic past experiences. Most people don't wake up one day and decide to become mentally ill.
So instead of making jokes about people that we know as being "the next mass murderer/serial killer/etc" and effectively shunning said person, we should try to include them into our social circle. Otherwise we are just complaining about the symptoms without bothering with the inoculation. It's our society, if everyone did something small we could avert at least some of these tragedies.
there's nothing you or i could say that removes a gray area
however, all of the random shit that someone does is meaningless unless a rational human being could rightly constitute one of his actions as a genuine threat
i haven't seen the video, it's taken down. but the description talks about a massacre at a school on a future date
sounds like a specific actionable threat to me
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Warning signs exist only in hindsight.
I'm willing to believe that they may be therapeutic in some cases where people have their fantasy and move on. However there are also people who dwell on them and that is certainly not therapeutic or cathartic.
It's the same thing but from my experiences with depression the human brain can certainly get stuck in an unhealthy loop and focus repeatedly on things until they become all-consuming.
It's silly to say that all fantasy is bad, but it's equally silly to say all of it is good or harmless.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
...that's a perfectly natural and generally healthy coping mechanism (the humor, not the drinking). In excess of course it can be a form of repression, but as an incidental method of coping I'd say humor is actually among the best. When life throws shit at you it really helps to have a sense of humor about it. Just ask Douglas Adams - after all, we apologize for the inconvenience.
Typically, Jews refer to the Holocaust as Shoah, or calamity.
PROTIP: Africa != Finland
I think arming people with educations and good families are just as important as physical defense tools.
But yes, everyone should own tactical nuclear weapons.
They weren't just exterminated, they weren't just ostracized from society, they were tortured, starved, experimented on, persecuted, and so on
Thats what a genocide is.
I agree with your initial point- survivors of a genocide should indeed get to call it what they want. But to imply that the genocide of the American Indians (or of ANY people) was any less horrific is ridiculous. Less organized, sure; no one person said, "Hey, we should eliminate this group of people based on race." An entire people just decided that they shouldn't get to keep their lives, their land, or their dignity. It might interest you to read about, for example, the Trail of Tears.
Genocide is genocide. It's evil no matter where, why, or how it happens.
See my earlier point. The Rwandan genocide has plenty of horror but no distinct name yet (AFAIK).
Besides the term Genocide invokes a a pretty serious image which is in no way diminished by the term Holocaust.
OSGGFG - Open Source Gamers Guide to Free Games
The holocaust refers to the mass exterminations of Jews AND homosexuals AND gypsies AND whoever else was included in the purging of human life. It is an event that is named the holocaust. It's not a special "Jew massacre". The only thing that smacks of racism is you believing that it is somehow exclusive to Jews and disliking it for that.
A 22 pistol is nothing to be scared of. Neither is a manifesto. Neither is scary. One is a firearm (neutral piece of hardware) and one is a document (neutral of any action on it's own).
Let's allow for freedom to reign as it's the guns and documents that will free (or enslave) people.
Reminds me of:
Officer: Are you username ladiesman217?
Perhaps that would be a good thing, having the decepticons scouring the internet for youtube commenters.
I love how comments with the phrase "half-wit toadhead" can get modded insightful here. Reminds me why I keep reading :)
Been reading quite a lot of political blogs and forums tonight and it's pretty sad what I'm seeing.. those who have a systematic political agenda to attack the prevalent values in Finnish society (namely, that we aren't enough like what Auvinen wants in his manifesto but tend to prefer to be more inclusive), especially the more rabid Libertarians for whom the Nordic welfare state is an absolute red cloth, seem to just complain that the guy's PR skills were a bit bad when he did what he did, but that he was otherwise quite a great guy.... and some of them are barely managing to hide their gloating that something like this should happen in our "safe" society.
Need to go puke really. It's nice to get to see some true colours though.
I want to play Free Market with a drowning Libertarian.
Most of the reason MAD worked was that early warning systems meant both sides would get their missiles off obliterating each other. I doubt you can ensure the shooter always get a bullet in return. Also, there would hardly be much confusion about who the perp is. Now if you got ten guys with a gun, and you just see one shooting another. Is he the shooter? Did he just shoot the shooter? Does that guy aiming at you think you're the shooter? If one person misjudge that, and kills another vigilante? Or just shoots in that direction, so that person starts shooting back? Who'll side with who thinking it's the other guy that's the shooter? Having plenty guns at a scene is only good if you know who to point them at, and they don't run around with big "bad guy" signs...
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
He was talking about this sort of shit when he was NaturalSelector89. We saw this comming a mile away.
He always made videos praising the likes of Timothy McVeigh and being sympothetic towards guys like Eric Harris.
http://youtube.com/TheAmazingAtheist here is a link to TJ's channel where he talks about it on his latest video. He had a memorable confrontation with this kid in the past
Make SELinux enforcing again!
Netcraft confirms it, Sturmgeist89 is dead.
Peter (who probably should be posting this anonymously...)
Downsize DC Today!
Theodore Kaczynski is his master!
Really, what is your source for this opinion? I imagine it is just the opposite.
That many guns going off would probably lead to more causualties, not fewer.So you think people shooting at a target are more likely to hit some other, person than their target. I think that is bunk.
When the police arrive on the scene, they will see many people with guns. How will they tell which one is the maniac and which are the innocent people trying to protect themselves? When there's only one guy with a gun, the police can tell instantly which one is the dangerous one.But they can't tell now. Statistically speaking, the police are over three times as likely to misidentify a violent criminal and shoot the wrong person, as an armed citizen who is on the scene. Cops usually show up late to these things and did not see what happened. There are plenty of environments where a large percentage of people are armed and it tends to have exactly the opposite affect from what you're arguing.
You think this guy was worried about the possibility of being shot? He shot _himself_ in the head. ..and about that give everybody a gun thing.. you want to give people like this guns, but not allow a 17 year old to have sex or buy alcohol or vote, because they are not responsible enough?
thanks, but I live in a country with decent gun control laws and despite having lots of guns and unarmed police, have not had any school shootings. I like that I send my kids to school & don't have to worry about them being shot.
Try it sometime.
How about we call it "The Rwandan Genocide"?
For someone who was ostensibly advocating natural selection, removing himself from the gene pool early and before creating as many offspring as possible is a staggering display of unfitness. Instead of all that pseudo crap on his profile, he should have taken the time to read Darwin's Origin of Species.
Da Blog
go fuck yourself troll.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears (forced relocation, numerous examples here as well)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_Massacre (machine guns turned on women and children)
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/reprint/281/22/2127.pdf (smallpox used as a biological weapon)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_treaties (hundreds of broken treaties)
I'm already bored with this, but I could certainly keep going.
I'll grant you that the holocaust is far more recent, but that doesn't really make it somehow more terrible nor more relevant.
Lots of people get the shaft on a regular basis. Yes, European Jews of the 40's are in that crowd. No, we probably shouldn't infringe on someone's right to question whether or not it happened (or at least happened exactly as it was reported.)
If I have to permit people to claim that there is no God, you also get to permit people to claim things you believe to be false.
Right?
I like Ron Paul's answer to this - the issue of protection is the responsibility of those in charge of the situation. School shootings need to be dealt with by school security. Airlines need airline security. And so on.
Take an armored car. There's what, $100,000 dollars inside? The thing is trussed up like Fort Knox, complete with at least two armed guards. To the best of my knowledge few have been accidentally harmed by armored cars.
Compare that to a school. What's the value of those kid's lives? Why not have any guards for those? Why not let each school get together with their district and decide whether or not it is appropriate?
Because we're waiting on the government to do it, of course.
This is real world and not the video game, more likely you will doing something involuntary...and messy.
It would be altogether extraordinary if you were physically and emotionally prepared to challenge a close-combat trained killer who had just slit the throat of a stewardess to make his point.
See now this is an example of someone that should have just offed themselves and be done with it.
Of course he's bonkers.
like Jenova?
because a gray area exists, does not mean there is no difference between black and white
it's like this: a guy steals a loaf of bread to feed his family. is he really evil? no. sometime later, after a few more thefts, he kills the occupant of a house he invades. now he is definitely evil. well, when did he go from misunderstood and destitute and requiring of our understand, to a vile evil bastard worthy of our punishment?
nobody knows
but because we cannot pin down the exact moment at which someone went from victimized to victimizer, does not mean he is not a victimizer. because we can't decide exactly when shades of grey fade away to certain black, does not mean we withhold judgment on someone or a situation that is black
see, in all of your comments above, you keep grasping for certainty. there is none, you will never find it
some people like you won't act unless they are 100% certain of things. and what that usually leads to is a failure to act on things most probably requiring intervention. nothing is 100% certain. you are plagued by doubt. which is fine, it means you have a conscience, you don't want to do wrong. but you must understand it is impossible to act and not make mistakes now and then, but it is also much worse to never act. you need to accept that, and understand there is no certainty on questions like this
you keep looking for the uncertainty, you keep saying that something about a situation is in doubt. well yeah, duh, there is uncertainty and doubt in every complicated situation like this
yes, someday, you will make a mistake when you act
but that fact doesn't mean should you should never act. that is, in fact, much worse
you make your best judgment, and you go with it, and sometimes you make the wrong choice, and that's life
but some people are so petrified of making the wrong choice in a gray area, they make no choice at all
which is far worse than acting, and sometimes fucking up
because a gray area exists, does not mean there is no difference between black and white
get what i mean?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Torture extracts what you want to hear and not want you need to know. The terrorist who risks capture has probably memorized enough false leads and plausible scenarios to keep his interrogators occupied for months. He will have been trained to sacrifice his pawns to protect his queen. He may not even know how much of the truth he holds himself.
Anti-Globalism
You might recall all the things about the terrorist camps, Tama Iti I believe. Its starting to affect us here in NZ. I think that Tama Iti should be in the slammer for life just for his past actions, he has a huge amount of support it seems.
I see Out of the Blue, about the Aramoana shooting is on TV3 soon, which is somewhat upsetting now. Just one guy, without videogames, death metal, slashdot to blame.
My grandmother doesnt want to ever see things like that, I think everyone should see it as a documentry, that its no different than the newspaper articles were. A workmate thinks we celebrate these people by giving news coverage. Whats your feelings? Or not, sorry to bother you.
---
This looser actually did start shooting people yesterday. And naturally, because being a sad looser, he couldn't take any responsibility for his actions, but shot himself at the end. - But being a total looser, he couldn't even do that properly. - I really hope he doesn't die, but has to face reality and the parents of the kids he killed. - I also hope he will live a long, and in the jail have long nightmares about the kids he killed.
And being a pitiful looser, he also blaimed the society for his actions. "The society" is so bad, he had to kill people. - News flash: The thing wrong with the society is exactly the loosers like this one! - Saddest thing is, they usually fail to notice that.
If all else fails, pull the plug and get out...
The Life is out there...
I seem to have left out a word, "It's the same thing" was meant to be "It's not the same thing".
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht1vouSNy4I
Outside of the usual signs, it is becoming more obvious since they are now using a template. There was almost nothing unique about this event compared to the more recent ones. They trigger one of their victims when they need to have pressure for a government to push through a new piece of legislation. Or else one of the students was a high value target (less likely). This newer template of the assassin always killing himself in the end is much easier than the old days where they would have to have a 3rd party kill the assassin (Oswald, although he was not the killer but that's that), or work very hard to make sure that no one ever spoke with the assassin to discover that he has no memory of the event (Sirhan Sirhan, McViegh).
Believe it.
On his YouTube page, along with at least KMFDM and Rammstein. I didn't save the page.
Then how about we also use the term "The Jewish Genocide"... Isn't that the whole arguement?
A View to a Kill? That's one crap Bond movie, almost on par with Moonraker. Had he chosen For Your Eyes Only, at least...
Blame the media. I mean what the hell - he says "Don't blame the movies I see, the music I hear, the games I play or the books I read. No, they had nothing to do with this. This is my war" ... then he has a list of the movies he sees, the music he listens to, the games he plays and the books he reads. Of course he's giving the media something to talk about -- as is any modern day school shooter or mass murderer.
These are the reasons this individual killed himself as well as others. Very important stuff!
The funny thing here is, I'm also from finland, male born in 1980, educated in university and have had many of the same thoughts as this guy. At one point I thought I'd go to the university main building lobby and blow off my head with a shotgun. It's a sick society all right.
s/shooted/shooter/
n/t
The video titled "Jokela High School Massacre 11/7" was actually uploaded on the 6th, not two weeks before. Old media guys are illiterate when it comes to new media, it seems. (He joined YouTube with the new account two weeks ago)
The guy suicided. He would not worry about M.A.D. He enforced it on his own.
On topic: I am certain we would have fewer school shootings if everyone was armed at all times. However, I'm worried we would also have so many "drunk people picking a fight and escalating for no good reason" shootings that it would not be worth it.
I lost my sig.
Linus Torvalds is Swedish. Born/lived in Finland.
.sig: No such file or directory
Jeah, hes swede like Pamela Anderson is finn. Pamela's grandfathers father was called Hermanni Hyytiäinen, and later changed his name to Anderson when moved from Saarijärvi in 1908. His wife's father was Heikki Keski-Salmi, later Henry Solmie, who was from Kuortane.
That's "loser", not "looser" five times.
Jesus.
Now, correct me if i'm wrong, but pre-WW2, the biggest threat to world peace war not Hitler and nazism, it was Stalin and communism. The Molotov-Ribbentrop treaty of '39 produced an alliance of unprecedented power and it's secret clauses divided europe into zones of interest.
Before even this happened, UK and the rest of the western world had bowed to nazi demands more than once, notably on the case of Czechoslovakia who was their ally (see Munich Betrayal), an independent nation that was given to Germany piecemeal to provide the people of Britain and France with peace.
Now, does this make UK and France Nazi countries? An independent observer might think so somehow. Not that the betrayal of allies ends there. Though war was declared against Germany over the invasion of Poland, no overt action was really taken. And when the Soviet Union invaded, there was no declaration of war or hostilities. In fact, prominent British nazis were interned, but not prominent communists. Does this make UK a Stalinist country?
After Finland gets attacked by Soviet Union in winter of '39, it is bombarded, by "bread baskets" from the USSR and by sympathetic rhetoric and promises of aid from the western powers. A plan is even hatched by the British and French to "help Finland" by landing in northern Norway and seizing the ore deposits in northern Sweden, virtually guaranteeing a German response (and turning Scandinavia into a proxy battlefield).
You can argue that all these moves were necessary to protect UK from another world war. But if actions of questionable morality can be justified by the good of the country, they make sense.
Now for the case of Finland and the Nazis:
One of the major contributors of tangible (not rhetorical) aid to Finland is actually Fascist Italy. With western aid being limited to obsolete equipment bought at hard currency and delivered too late and with no spare parts. Germany, while officially neutral, permits aid to Finland to pass through it's territory, something many other countries don't allow.
Surrounded by two "evil", allied, regimes, one leading a historical foe (which in '41 was already demanding more concessions on top of those gained in the Winter War) and one leading a historical ally, is it a wonder if a German proposition of offering military equipment in return of rights-of-passage to Norway and use of some military bases was accepted?
In short, it is not just a case of being between a rock and a hard place. It's also seeing how the game of realpolitik is played, with little or no regard for morality to safeguard one's own interests. Each of the belligerents of WW2 were allied to an evil dictatorship at some point in the war, some even to both of them at different points in time. The fact that post-war propaganda makes Soviet Union a "victim" and a "lesser evil" is just winner's history. You can actually get a fairly unbiased view of the war in Europe from the book "Europe at War" by Norman Davies. However if you like your history black and white, do not read the book, it will only serve to ruin your view of the world.
I saw all this stuff appear yesterday (youtube and the first news reports in finnish) on 4chan, literally minutes after the event. The normal news networks didn't catch up for nearly 8 hours.
From reading the manifesto is clear that the guy had created the idea in his mind that he is superior to other people, and since only superior people must be allowed to live, he had a duty to exterminate the inferior ones.
That's total outright craziness, of course.
My question is: why people around him did not realize he was a nutjob? didn't he show his ideas to his parents, friends, and most importantly, his school?
Why nobody paid attention to the obvious?
Just shoot the one with a red circle/square around him.
Waterboarding? Oh yea, that's going to work. Getting good intel via torture is almost impossible, despite what the movies have told you.
When everyone knows that the plane is going to crash into something, you think everyone will sit tight for a pocketknife? Doubt it.
Everything is either occasional, constant, or impossible. Imagining that we'll stop all attacks is naive.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
How long do we think until someone blames google and says "you should have KNOWN this was going to happen, it's your fault! Creds plx!" Just because it was on their site wouldn't mean they KNEW it was there.... And if it's their fault it's as much everyone else's fault who saw the video and did nothing.
My sig will be released in 2015 third quarter. Rating pending.
The Jokela school shooter :
- bullied for a long time CHECK
- lonely CHECK
- depressed CHECK
- weltschmerz CHECK
- gotten off his meds (SSRI) recently CHECK
- recently broken off with his gf CHECK
- hung around with total nut-jobs on the net CHECK
- had access to guns CHECK
The same patterns more or less as @ Columbine, Virginia Tech, Rauma, etc.
Not saying this was foreseeable, but in hindsight they are quite similar in many ways.
Sad, for the shooter and esp. for the victims and their families.
"His family belongs to the Swedish-speaking minority (roughly 6%) of Finland's population." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Torvalds
Just as I am a Hungarian-speaking Romanian citizen.
.sig: No such file or directory
I fully agree, but there is one more thing that differentiates the Holocaust of WW2 from all other genocides so far: it was carried out industrially. There was a lot of logistics involved to organize the trains carrying 'human material' to the death factories, where people were divided, stripped naked, deprived of their body hair, gassed to death, burned to ashes and so on, all using assembly line principles (or those of a modern slaughterhouse) in order to murder human beings.
That is what sets the genocide of the Jews apart from every other mass murder in history so far.
A World in a Grain of Sand / Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Infinity in the Palm of your Hand / And Eternity in an Hour.
I think nationality and language are related, but don't have 1-to-1 mapping. In my opinion many Swedish speaking citizens of Finland feel that they are Swedish speaking Finns (and some of them find it insulting if you suggest that Finnish and Swedish speaking citizens are two different nationalities), but there also Swedish speaking citizens who feel that they their nationality is separate from Finnish speaking Finns.
It is worth remembering that many of Finnish speakers changed their family language to Swedish when Finland was part of Sweden and the only official language was Swedish.
I'll grant you that the holocaust is far more recent, but that doesn't really make it somehow more terrible nor more relevant.
I don't agree with this. I see at least two issues why the Holocaust's recentness does make it more terrible or relevant than many other genocides.
1) The Holocaust was industrialized genocide. It required the tools of an industrial society and economy to run and manage. To participate in the Holocaust you didn't really make a choice to kill the Jews, you did just your job, be it record keeping, train maintenance or gas chamber construction and you kept your mouth shut. This industrial disposal of unwanted humans is different sort of inhumanity than practiced by, say, tribal conquerors. Native Americans and Armenians, were either killed rather traditionally or ill-treated in ways that led to massive amounts of death from hunger and exposure, which, while purposeful, is still a long step from the systematic and designed activity of the Holocaust.
2) The Holocaust happened in highly developed Western nation. Much of our public activity, the energy of our societies, is spend on further progress towards ideals and policies that were supposed to be strongly present in the Germany of the 30s. Any serious look at the Holocaust must make us realize that just claiming to have ideals or to be civilized society does not make horrific things impossible. We must still be skeptical about claims of virtue and we still must take responsibility for our own actions. This lesson can not as forcefully be drawn from earlies atrocities, nor from later events in non-democratic countries.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers - Pablo Picasso
That's why they have the bulletproof glass.Just pay the premium for the one-way stuff and you're all good.
Shit any asshole kid or adult stupid enough to leave death threaths on the internet and not thinking that it will be traceable to him or her should be lobotomized ans used as lab rats.
The society that legitimately or not feels it needs to have a measure of protection from people going off the deep end needs to make a very difficult choice: is it concerned with mental health of its members in general or is it only concerned with those that get violent? No one seems to be talking about it, yet there are laws that stride both sides of this fence, usually in contradictory and ineffective fashion. I'm not suggesting I know what the answer should be, but I believe a choice has to be made, at least on the legislative level.
Alexey
By that definition , all French Canadians would be French and all Jews Israelian.
As far as I know, it was never the policy of the US Government to exterminate every Native American, which is a pretty significant difference.
Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
...please. Well said, dgr73.
IX CCXLIX XVII II CLVII CXVI CCXXVII XCI CCXVI LXV LXXXVI CXCVII XCIX LXXXVI CXXXVI CXCII
Well, you may want to compare the actual practice with the spoken policy. The US's position on Native Americans essentially mirrored that of the Nazi's towards the Jews:
They are less than human, and we will take what they have through any means necessary.
I realize that they SAID different things while they were doing it, but personally I would actually put this in the 'Pro' column for the Nazis. If you were Jewish you KNEW that the Nazis couldn't be trusted, and as a feature of this many, many people got out before it was too late. The Native American was shamelessly duped over and over again by a government that claimed to be a friend, claimed to treat them as equals, etc. This is far more dispicable in my humble opinion...
And 89 is the number of videos he posted to youtube.
While I'm here, I see a lot of knee-jerk reacions to other knee-jerk reactions.
Of course we shouldn't throw everyone in jail who makes a violent video or writes a violent paper. What we need is some common sense. Lacking that, we can come up with an arbitrary numeric threshold of suspicious actions required before we investigate someone. I propose that number be 88.
-- Boycott Shell
How did we ever get into this game of "this tragedy was worse than that one!" anyhow? Because there's a special word for the Holocaust? So what?
"We shouldn't try to learn anything from this tragedy, because doing that would mean we have to ignore the previous ones," is what I'm hearing. And that's such an unintelligible argument that I can't believe anyone is arguing it. "The Jews don't deserve any sympathy because other people deserve it too!" isn't any better.
What the hell is the argument here? Why?
'Holocaust' as a word refers to any large-scale extermination of a people, especially by fire. It was not invented to describe the treatment of Jews, Gypsies and others seen as undesirable by Nazi Germany.
Dealing with lawyers would be a lot less tedious if they all looked like Casey Novak.
'Jokela High School Massacre - 11/7/2007.'? I thought Finland used little-endian date format 7/11/2007, or even ISO format 2007-11-07? Did a Fin really use the screwey US-style middle-endian date format? Or was this really back on July 11th?
Nick Waterman, Sr Tech Director, #include <stddisclaimer>
From Wikipedia article on Silet Holocaust: "Advocates of "racial purity" doctrines, most notably certain Jewish communal and religious leaders, use this term when they describe the assimilation and intermarriage of Jews with gentiles."
It doesn't really seem particular respectful for me to liken interracial marriage and resulting loss of blood purity to mass murder. For a particularly nasty irony, consider that one of the reasons Nazi wanted to get rid of the Jews in the first place was to keep their Aryan blood pure.
Given this level of disrespect from the kin of the survivors, I really don't think that asking on Slashdot if a particular genocide needs a specific name really compares.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Mutually Assured Destruction prevented said destruction because all the participants wished to live. It doesn't help any when one of the participants is intending to blow his own brains out at the end. Suicidal lunatics aren't stopped by death threats.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Actually, no. The real answer is: because the people have considered and decided that a few kids getting killed every now and then is not worth the cost of hiring guards at every school, especially enough guards (2 per room) to actually guarantee security against a preplanned suicide shooting.
The value of those kid's lives is less than the value of the extra tax needed, at least for those who would need to pay that tax. Cold but true.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
You mean like the existence of God.
You've almost lost the argument with that one little statement. But on to your point.
The Native American got at least as bad a deal from the US as the Jews got from Nazi Germany.
Look, I'm not arguing that the Jews were worse off than the Native Americans, the Rwandans, or any other Genocidal victims. I'm arguing that the level of Organization, The Support Structure, The Methods employed, all raised the horror level above your "average" Genocide. I mean no disrespect. What the US did to the Native Americans was truly horrible. If you'd like to start a movement to name those actions the Native American Holocaust, you/they would have my support. But You/They haven't, have you/they? Whereas ......
The original argument was whether the "Jewish Genocide" deserved it's own name, I think it did, I kinda think they all do. Using genocide as a general term covering them all would suit me fine.
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I hardly think I described it as not evil.
I only stated that the name Holocaust refers to the overall experience the Jews suffered through. It doesn't just cover killing them. There were Holocaust survivors, there are NO such thing as Genocide survivors. Only people who were not caught and killed in a Genocide.
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The asshole that made that prediction has actively sought out disturbed people and harrassed them. Not that it's his fault that they were disturbed but now he's trying to reap rewards of actions that he should be ashamed of. Check out these replies to it instead:
- this should put his prediction into context
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nWnUtJ-w-6E
- and here's something the asshole should think about
http://youtube.com/watch?v=VU_VL3B8NCg&watch_response
... why didn't he hate the consumerists queuing over night to buy an iPhone?
They where lining up for it.
Everyone keeps saying this guy was insane. I think he was a bit drastic and should have shared his views before doing what he did, but I understand his post and partially agree with it. If you look at books he's read, his ideas seem to be along the lines of us letting so many people live that normally would have died. Our gene pool is a melting pot which can be good for any new gene diseases that would wipe out the whole race, but at the same time we are no longer evolving. With science we may be able to help ourselves improve with evolution through gene therapy, but for the most part only the rich could afford that hence his take on tyranny.
Apparently the guy was really effected by this thought and it sent him into a deep depression where the only way out of it he saw was to try to solve this by himself and left that nice little note you posted.
So for those trying to figure out why he did it, I think it's quiet obvious. It's simply another case of someone getting depressed with reality and not being able to hand the current affairs.