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Environmental DVD Wrecks Apple Drives
FST777 writes "The British Mail on Sunday published its latest DVD giveaway on the EcoDisc, a thin and bendable DVD format that is supposed to be more environmentally-friendly than regular DVDs. Despite the clear warning against using them in Apple slot drives, some Mac users decided to give it a go. The result? A brisk trade for repair shops in the UK. 'The EcoDisc's manufacturer, ODS, insists the disc won't break drives. "We've produced over ten million of these discs — we've had less than a dozen phone calls," says managing director, Ray Wheeler. "There are ways to get the discs out." Wheeler says the problem stems from Apple's slot-loading drives. "It uses an ejection system that doesn't get approval from the DVD Forum." He claims the EcoDisc should work in other types of slot-loading drive, although admits that it hasn't been tested in the PlayStation 3.'"
Just throw the whole computer out and buy a new one!
They do not work very well with anything that even slightly varies from a regular CD/DVD. At the high school I used to work at, kids and teachers would put the business card, heart shaped and all kinds of things in the slot loader on the iMacs there.
For reading the Mail on Sunday. Apple users should go for the Guardian's mixture of smugness, cult like atmosphere and complete indifference to reality.
If you haven't made a developer cry, you've wasted a day.
It's not wrecking everyones drives, just selected Macs.
"It uses an ejection system that doesn't get approval from the DVD Forum."
And these new discs do?
Apple has solved this problem by releasing the MacBook Air without a DVD drive built in- it's much easier to throw away and replace a USB accessory.
Worst BBC News Stories
On the plus side, this is a good form of idiot tax. This might not make sense to non-British readers but the Mail has, let's say, a certain reputation in the UK for its readership being most of Britain's jumpy, middle class, alarmist, conservative, "immigration is evil and all non-white immigrants should be castrated" type readers.
if it's bendable, then it kind of defeats the object. While those users were stupid to try and fit it in a slot-loading drive, CDs should be rigid so that they work in these things. Also, the amount of CD drives this will ruin could balance against the environmental benefits of the DVD.
Either way, this was given away in the Daily Mail, which seems to forget that slot-loading drives exist outside Macintosh computers. This is the same paper that seems to think that you can author an A-level media studies course on an iPod, and could therefore pass while being illiterate.
Those using pirated Tinysoft signatures(TM) are a real threat to society and should all be thrown in jail.
Circumcision is child abuse.
The environmentally friendly thing to do would be to have NO disc at all. Just point people at a download site and let them get the disk image from the tubes using zero plastics, chemicals, landfill, or other resources in the process.
although admits that it hasn't been tested in the PlayStation 3
Well, yeah, that's understandable seeing as it's still so hard to get a hold of a PS3.
Because the Internet doesn't use any electrical power?
I agree that it's probably more efficient to download data instead of burning it on DVD and distributing it that way, but by how much?
Actually, the Apple slot-loading drive was a response to durability problems experienced by students when they used Mac laptops. Apparently kids were liable to snap the DVD tray right off the laptop. (Not good.) So it wasn't a stupid idea. More like an attempt to balance out a variety of needs.
That being said, you could always get a MacBook Air. Nothing says "high technology" like a complete lack of an optical drive.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
The EcoDisc works in other slot-loading drives. It even says that in the summary.
Rob
Slot loaders look voracious, and what keeps them from scratching the disk when it slides in and out? If the ejector fails perhaps on a bad disk, it's surgery time for the entire drive. Ask for trouble, and ye shall find it.
Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
That being said, you could always get a MacBook Air. Nothing says "high technology" like a complete lack of an optical drive. ;-)
That being said, you could always get an iMac. Nothing says "high technology" like a complete lack of a floppy drive.
turn up the jukebox and tell me a lie
"It uses an ejection system that doesn't get approval from the DVD Forum."
Well, who are they to tell Apple and Sir Steve what to do?
Patient: Doctor, it hurts when I do this... Doctor: Don't do that.
Those who have spent hours trying to get their car's CD player to eject a stuck disc know what I'm talking about.
The Matsushita drives used in Apple's newer models are especially prone to failure (I speak from experience)...
Tray loading ftw.
The warning was:
"no Apple slot in drive"
I've heard the opposite- that slot-load drives are bad for schools because kids like to stick things in them.
Indeed. Remind me, what was the point of that?
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
The question is whether either the disc or the drives carried the DVD Logo? From what I have seen it's doubtful that the "EcoDisk" would qualify as it is less than half the thickness and weight of a real DVD, so it's interesting to see ODS trying to point fingers at Matshita for not following DVD Forum specifications.
I wish I had mod points, but that is funny... I have a hard time describing this, but it is one of those situations where you reply with a comment that just leaves the other debating person in silence... A sort of cynical smugness...
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
I understand that the difference is probably great. I am wondering whether somebody has ever bothered measuring it as precisely as possible.
Well, it's not that the intertubes uses no power, but the internet will be powered up and will use pretty much the same amount of power whether the files were downloaded or not. So the incremental energy use of distributing this material over the intertubes is likely a lot lower.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
Well many of the internet servers are kinda always on with trafic or with out. So basicly all the middle stuff doen't count. The servers hosting the program will be split by the theoretical amount of CD shipped. So the endergy to make a disk vs. having A PC one for the extra time it takes to download it... I think the Download will win. There is the heat to melt plastic, and metals, spinning moters etc....
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
That's a problem for elementary schools, not colleges.
Well, it's a problem for high schools too, but that's because it's school computers and HS students tend to be dicks when it comes to other people's property. That issue applies to both slot- and tray-loading drives, though.
How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
It only takes one man to change the Wisdom of the Crowd to Tyranny of the Masses.
But once you open a tray loading drive, there is a much bigger hole to put stuff in to...
People who want to vandalise equipment will always find a way to do so.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Not sure about school age, but my 4 year old son (who is the size of a 6 year old... he towers over some kids in his older sister's 2nd grade class) managed to get *10* discs into the slot loading drive of the iMac I have set up for the kids to use.
Funny thing is that the drive still works, but only reading the outside half of a disc. So CD isos get burned to DVDs and I can read all of 'em, install from 'em, etc. but not CD images on a CD or a DVD image on a DVD - only get about half way thru it...
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
Okay, but there are other factors. Consider the power used by the PC during the download. A 4 gigabyte image is going to take hours to download. Had the data been distributed on DVD instead, the computer, at least in principle, could have been powered off during that time.
The internet uses electrical power yes, but chances are the servers hosting the files will be up anyway.. I doubt they will use much more than all the machines and raw materials required to produce DVDs...
Your computer will need to be on to read from a DVD, and chances are these days it would be connected to the internet in any case. And spinning the DVD will consume a little extra power.
Also, how many of these discs will never be used (theres one stuck to every newspaper, not every reader will use the DVD so a lot will just end up in landfill. Only people who want the content will download it.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
"I've heard the opposite- that slot-load drives are bad for schools because kids like to stick things in them."
And I've heard that what they stick in the slots is pieces of the trays they snap off from other machines that have (had?) tray loading drives.
-- Terry
Considering all the computers to transfer it are already on, I can't imagine it being much more at all.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Another case of macs looking cool but not being fully functional. I absolutely hate slot loaders and once had to completely rip one apart to get a CD out of it. (The drive wasn't going to be used again anyways)
but in practicality, it won't be.
Plus, you can download it while doing other things on the computer.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Or you could get a Dell. Nothing says high technology like a lack of a floppy drive. Or you could get a HP. Nothing says high technology like a complete lack of a floppy drive. Or you can keep using floppies and come crying to me when they fail as they often do and I will boot up my old turd Compaq and Bad Copy Pro to save your ignorant bottom.
Matsushita was part of the consortium behind the DVD spec. I find it hard to believe they make non-compliant drives.
I have ripped apart many tray drives because of a bad DVD/CD or a mechanical failure. It doesn't mean trays are no good.
While I recognize the issue, I have never had a problem with a slit drive, and I have owned several devices with one for a long time.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I think I've accidentally been transported into a parallel universe. Is this not Slashdot?
What, you say it is Slashdot? Then how do you explain this article without someone (incorrectly) referring to "bricking" the Apple CD drive?
Because the Internet doesn't use any electrical power?
What's bad about electricity?You can't take the sky from me...
I see this story is tagged "Macs for morons", and various posts joking about destroying Mac owners' machines is not a bug, it's a feature, and so forth.
I must take issue with this stance. If we are to celebrate the fact that a certain demographic sector suffered inconvenience and damage to property, I must insist we aim the full force of our collective schadenfreude not at Mac users, but at Mail on Sunday readers ;-)
(Serious explanation: The Mail is one of the most nasty, deplorable shit-for-brained rags in the country, but sadly very powerful. I would consider the editor, Paul Dacre, one of the most evil men in Britain, for so shamelessly, irresponsibly and (sadly) skillfully peddling his insiduous blend of bigotry, racism, classism, sexism, and scaremongering. A typical Mail headline is something like: "Does your council spend your tax on teaching illegal immigrants how to give working mothers cancer?" It's not the Mail if it doesn't get in a middle-class whinge about taxes/councils/schools/hospitals, insinuate a highly improbable conspiracy involving immigrants, remind women their rightful place is In The Home, and stir panic on public health issues - naturally, all expressed in the form of a question, since it's UTTER BULLSHIT and they know it.
Evil, evil, evil paper.
10 million discs produced but never tested them in a PlayStation drive? I wonder what sort of testing they did?
I thought Greenpeace had some beef (tofu?) with Macs anyway. Probably to do with carbon footprints or recycling or something.
Perhaps this disk is the environmental lobby's means of wreaking revenge on those nasty, conservative, planet-hating Mac users...
Nobody else has this sig.
1. Less power consumption
2. Less weight
3. Less space taken up by not having a motor
Even trays have issues, though I mean the ones that imitate top-loaders where you have to put the disk onto the hub. I dislike the type because of exessive mechanical wear and it damages disks.
Slot loaders on the other hand don't appreciated library loaned disks, which have an extra layer of protective plastic along the top, where they'put the security strip in.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
A friend once put such a disk in his MacBook and then called me after he couldn't get it out. I tried several things, including opening the Mac, with no luck. After some searching I found a solution on the net: Reboot the MacBook holding it upside down... the disk properly ejected right on booting. I don't know why and I don't know if it's reproducable, as I didn't want to try to put it in again. (btw, reading the disc while it was in worked fine.)
I don't know how much power is used to manufacture the Eco discs, but you can mount the image in Windows using 3rd-party software like Daemon Tools. In Unix-like systems, you can use your OS' "everything is a file" FS philosophy and some hackery to mount an image as a device.
"We are Microsoft. You shall be assimilated. Competition is futile."
*woosh*
I'm fairly certain your parent post was pointing out how people bitched up a fit about the iMac not having that piece of junk back in 1998, not when the major PC builders finally dropped them from their standard configuration within the last 2 years.
I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
Environmentally friendly DVD makes better drink coasters!
If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now, when?
If someone's putting information that's not worth keeping on a DVD, why is making it with less material the right answer?
It's a retractable cupholder, you insensitive clod!
My Mac Mini decided it did not have an optical drive for some reason. There is no eject button and no pinhole to force the ejection of the disc, so are in a bit of a pickle if a disc is in there and you want to get it out. Say like a rented DVD movie you want to return...
I rang the shop where I rented the disc, and they were pretty cool about it as I had a legitimate reason for not returning it, so they did not apply a late fee. It took several days to get the disc out. I could not open it, because it was under warranty, and dissambling Mac Minis has more incommon with watch repair than servicing a regular PC.
At one point I found my self holding the Mac in both hands and shaking it back and forwards to see if that would dislodge it. Later on the OS saw the drive again and I was able to eject it by the normal means of dragging the disc to the trash (on account of how intuitive Macs are).
${YEAR+1} is going to be the year of Linux on the desktop!
It's really quite simple.
Amusingly, when I typed 'Hold' in the Subject field, Safari completed the sentence because I posted the same exact thing here a while back the last time this came up.
September 2011: Looking for Cocoa/iOS work in Boston area Cocoa Programmer Quincy, MA
"We've produced over ten million of these discs -- we've had less than a dozen phone calls"
Personally I think 11/10,000,000 (to round the numbers) is about an appropriate number for all people who...
1.) Care about the environment
2.) Bought the newspaper for more than a crafts project or dog waste
3.) Have a computer and still read newspapers
4.) Have a mac
5.) Actually would be smart enough to call the company to complain about the CD, and not apple.
6.) Actually put the disk in their computers in the first place
7.) Would care enough about spam to use the DVD.
I'd personally be very interested in seeing how correct my estimate is. This person is trying to imply that 10,000,000+ mac users who used his CD are doing "just fine" since he only got less than a dozen calls that he knows about...
Ginga no Rekshiya Mata Each page.
You know, I've heard that if you stick a slice of bologna in the DVD drive, it will play a short movie about pigs.
Oh well. It was worth a shot.
So if AOL dumps 1 billion trillion Ecodisks on the market, does this make AOL eco-friendly? Oh wait, maybe they meant economical, they just wanted the public to read ecological into it.
I suddenly have imagery of a giant cockroach with a shotgun strapped to it's back riding though he desert on an old Honda trail bike.
I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
On the other hand, not all Apple interfaces are rubbish. I was very impressed by Xcode when I made another abortive attempt at using it the other day.
I particularly love the way that you can add files to projects by drag-and-drop! Oh, wait, no you can't, you have to add them with an "Add file" dialog.
But at least you can add a whole bunch at once! Oh, wait, no you can't, you can only add one at a time.
But at least the dialog box remembers where the files were so you don't have to navigate your directory structure again and again for every single file! Oh, wait, no it doesn't, it always goes right back to the project directory.
And that's before we get onto the really fun details, like the only way to change the build settings for your project is to right-click on the build target name and select the intuitively named "Get Info" option.
Apple, king of user interface design? Don't make me laugh. OS 9 was very good, but it's been downhill all the way since they abandoned usability in favour of useless eye candy.
I'm fairly certain your parent post was pointing out how people bitched up a fit about the iMac not having that piece of junk back in 1998, not when the major PC builders finally dropped them from their standard configuration within the last 2 years.
Of course, back then the complaint was perfectly valid because Apple didn't replace it with anything.
Had the iMac shipped with a CDRW drive, they would have actually been "innovative", rather than "cheap".
Just junk food for thought...
They've specifically said they wouldn't support Apple's non compliant hardware, which Apple dishonestly marketed as compliant.
I'm less sure the download will win, but I think it's a pretty reasonable assumption in lack of evidence.
But the middle stuff certainly does count, since if a server (or switch, or router) becomes saturated it will need to be upgraded or split.
And they decided that Apple's tiny market share wasn't worth holding the product back for. At least they warned you, they'd be well within their rights to say nothing and blame Apple for selling mislabeled drives.
Offtopic, but I know a lot of people like to beat up on Apple for the "no internal optical drive on the MacBook Air" thing. I have a Dell D420, which doesn't have a built-in optical drive (it's in the dock) and I can't say I ever use the optical drive until I need to upgrade my Linux distro. All my backups are done over my home network, or to USB storage. When's the last time you used your DVD/CDRW drive? And not having an internal optical drive saves a lot of weight and bulk in the laptop.
I'm not a Mac weenie by any stretch, but I think Apple made a good call on that for an ultralight laptop.
>But where's the picture file? Um, show-in-Finder option? Nope.
um, yep.
in fact 2 options: show edited photo in finder or show a backed-up original.
you can also use export it if you want to resize or change format.
or you can just drag the photo to where you want if you're fine with the size/format etc.
there are probably easy solutions to your other complaints, wasn't paying much attention but this one caught my attention as I use iphoto a lot. it rules.
But they bought one that doesn't adhear to specs. Besides slot drives are notorious for getting things stuck or not working with all discs. They should have used a tray loading drive.
For a wide scale deployment, they'd almost certainly have to add capacity that didn't exist before.
Distributing 4GB to lots of people isn't trivial, and that's ignoring the marketing fact that most people wouldn't be willing to do so in the first place.
Les Miserables Volume 1 now up with my reading of
The savings is that there are no discs OR electricity used if someone doesn't want to access the data. The "environmental friendly" disc will be thrown away by the vast majority of the recipients.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
Of course it is, only the people who want it download it rather than forcing it upon every Mail reader.
If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... Checkmate.
What??? Apple non-standard again!!!
And how long would it have taken to test that out first? Only guesses in minutes less than 5 accepted. Or couldn't you get the PS3 away from the kid?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
From "The Cycling Tour" "Amazing, isn't it? We have also developed a tomato which can eject itself when an accident is imminent." http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/episode34.htm
It's not uncommon for drives -- even tray-loaders -- to have problems with nonstandard media. I just bought a Pioneer DVR-115D DVD drive, and the instructions explicitly warn that business-card-size discs, as well as other oddly-shaped discs, are not to be played in the drive.
Ah, a myminicity troll. Go away.
How does that make me look arrogant? I was criticizing Apple's going miles out of their way to make it harder for the disabled. Hell, ctrl-clicking (as opposed to right-clicking) is more inconvenient for me, AND I'M LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE TWO HANDS!
Hey Apple, I know it's hard to accomodate certain disabilities. But could you maybe not *actively seek out* ways to make it harder for the disabled? Is that asking too much?
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
They just buy them from other parts manufactures. I'm sure there are other systems that use the drives and have the same problem its just happens to be in an apple product so people start pointing out its evil apple and their non-compliant drives.
And what other standards does apple not comply with that is keeping you from buying a Mac?
Been there, done that. Every ultra-portable IBM makes doesn't have any.
Old hat, my friend.
I particularly love the way that you can add files to projects by drag-and-drop! Oh, wait, no you can't, you have to add them with an "Add file" dialog.
- Opens up the 'src' folder in the Finder
- Selects a file
- Drags it to the 'Sources' folder in the XCode project
- Sees import-folder-to-project sheet drop down
- Wonders what the fuss is about
But at least you can add a whole bunch at once! Oh, wait, no you can't, you can only add one at a time
- Does same as above, but selects multiple files
- Wonders what the fuss is all about
- Tries using the dialogue box, in case Apple had gone insane... Nope, multi-select works just fine...
But at least the dialog box remembers where the files were so you don't have to navigate your directory structure again and again for every single file! Oh, wait, no it doesn't, it always goes right back to the project directory
* This one I'll give you, but then I tend to keep my source files for a given project within the project folder anyway, so it works quite well for me...
the only way to change the build settings for your project is to right-click on the build target name and select the intuitively named "Get Info" option
- Wonders why the coward just doesn't double-click the project...
Thinks to himself: "Perhaps reading the manual might be a useful exercise for this coward". Here's a hint: If you're doing something that you think is a monumental waste of time, something the computer could do far better, and make your life far easier, you're probably missing something. Reading the fine manual before blowing off steam in public saves making an ass of yourself.
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
So let me get this straight, I didn't want an answer to my problem, but I did want to bitch, but the problem doesn't exist?
Yes, I do want a solution -- ONE THAT EXISTS. I will try on the mac forums I guess, but it's important for others to know how crappy an interface that is, where I can barely even use a photo I just cropped.
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
Hmm, you seem to be a bit... wrong?
Right Click => Show File
or
Export => set what type of file (original, current, jpeg, tiff, png), set options for file size et cetera, then choose where (or you could export as a web page - it'll create some HTML, thumbnails et cetera - usually only useful if you are dumping out a lot of pics and want a quick n dirty page for them, or you could export as a quicktime movie, set time for each image, and various other images).
Yeah yeah, I've been trolled, i'm an apple fanboi and all that.
The best is the enemy of the good
If people are worried about the effect of computing on the environment, CD's and DVD's are the last thing they should focus on. A disc is basically a very small volume of plastic and a very tiny amount of aluminum foil. Computer hardware on the other hand is riddled with toxic heavy metals and other materials, which are becoming a massive global disposal problem.
Ceci n'est pas une sig.
This may just be me having a unique model here, but all recent Apple Mighty Mouses support left and right click. So, this means the only currently shipping Macs with no right click option would be the laptops. But wait! If I put two fingers on my touchpad and click... holy shit!
Older PCs don't have a CD drive. Older TVs don't have a HDMI socket. Older Macs don't ship with a two-button mouse.
How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
-I took a photo of myself in PhotoBooth. Now I want to crop it and upload it. Okay, click on iPhoto. Crop image. Great, now I have it in an album. But where's the picture file? Um, show-in-Finder option? Nope. Save cropped picture somewhere? Nope. I have to go deep into the directory, photos->iphoto library->various weird folder -> copy it to a more useful place, then upload.
Ummm, you do know that you can just click and drag the picture from iPhoto onto your desktop, right?
wow, you criticized apple fanboys with a side swipe at apple. And didn't click the no Karma, or Anonymous check box? a.) I didn't side-swipe Apple. I'm not sure why you're seeing that. The "He's telling the truth" bit is a reference to his ownership of an iPod, not to his critcism.
b.) This is basically a throw-away account. I've been lurking on Slashdot for far longer than my ID implies. One day there was a story about another company complaining about iTune's monopoly. Everybody poo-poo'd that complaint, so I mentioned that he had a point and why I thought so. (As opposed to saying something like "APPLE SUX!! EVERYBODY WHO LIKES APPLE SUCKS!") My comment was initially modded insightful. Unfortunately, that invited criticism. Instead of taking my point head-on, lots of people took jabs at my post. One guy shot up to a +5 for cooking up a hypothetical (and, if anybody spent more than 3 seconds pondering it, non-sensical) scenario about my motivations for making the comment. Silly stuff, but not really out of the norm for Slashdot. The silliness shot to an extreme when all of my recent posts started dropping. Before long, some 30 negative moderations had been made, actually causing me to get banned from Slashdot for a couple of months. (It was specific to an IP range, I could still post from home.) A couple of months later, I started posting again, and those new posts were automatically modded as troll.
So I created this account to avoid that BS attached by my old nick. Frankly, if this one gets toasted by ridiculously organized Apple fanboys too, I really don't care. I can create a new account. BFD. I'm not giving Steve Jobs verbal fellatio just to be cool with a group of people. I'm also not giving Apple any more credit than I'd give Microsoft. They're motivated by profit just like BillyG, so I'm not defending them just because I like my iPod.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
:x
But I thought the whole point of the Mac interface was that you never had to read a manual. Isn't the Mac philosophy supposed to be that any interface where you have to read the manual is made of fail?
Greenpeace was upset at Apple a while ago because of all the packaging they used for their products. Perhaps this was no simple mistake but an attack on Apple by the environmentalists. Start your conspiracy theories now! Bonus points if it involves Freemasons or inheriting money from the deposed king of Nigeria!
I'm not dead yet!
But I thought the whole point of the Mac interface was that you never had to read a manual
Then you were wrong.
Macs *are* generally easy to use - my mother has less problems than the gp, and she can't program the DVR.... However, if there was no need for any documentation, however, I seriously doubt Apple would spend the time and money on all this documentation. Note that this isn't just developer documentation, it's everything from games through bundled apps, through code-generation, through hardware references.
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
And, consistently, I see: So your saying that if your an average person (including that UbuntuDupe loser) you'll find ctrl-clicking inconvenient? as being critical of the listener's attitude toward UbuntuDupe, NOT of UbuntuDupe.
I guess it's that I automatically see "including that ___ loser" as being sort of a mocking aside, not a direct attack on ___.
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
I agree that it's probably more efficient to download data instead of burning it on DVD and distributing it that way, but by how much? I can download a lot of data on one charge from my battery. I can't burn even one DVD. I don't know how it compares to stamped disks, but I'd say the efficiency gain from downloading is significant.
Thomas Galvin
The newspaper is worried about the cost of giving away these discs. They sell about 2 million papers a day, I expect the saving by having a thinner disc is significant.
If more demand is put on infrastructure, its capacity is likely to be increased -- otherwise all roads would still be mud tracks, subway trains would be every 15 minutes and not every 2, there wouldn't be enough electricity etc. The Internet is no different.
I'm just sayin'.
This space intentionally left blank.
at least it sets a clear case where a copy of the medium and not a original is needed in order to play in legitimate apple hardware.
GP's described behaviour seemed rather intuitive to me. GGP didn't figure it out, so probably he does need to read a manual, but I would guess most people would have figured out how to do what GP explained without reating a manual. Furthermore, GGP was talking about Xcode, which is an IDE. I doubt most people expect to just be able to use a tool as complex as an IDE.
the (german) news-site golem.de reported problems with EcoDiscs and Slot-In drives 4.5 months ago...
http://www.golem.de/0707/53797.html
The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
You fail to mention that illegal immigrants killed Diana, presumably while stealing our jobs and living off benefits.
[FUCK BETA]
It's only on the Mac mini, at least as of 2006 as far as I know. iMacs, Macbooks and Mac Pros have a variety of Pioneer and Sony drives.
Why is Apple going out of its way to hide the existence of options for unwanted one-handed people? For these people, there is an assistive device called a "two-button mouse". I've read that even Apple makes them. Here I come to save the day! right-clicking (SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! SHUT UP!!!!!!! THAT DOESN'T EXIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) By that logic, nor does full keyboard navigation. Nor does the screen reader. Even if it isn't part of the core Mac user experience, it's still there for people who need it.
Hey, sure, it might appeal to some people's political views.
But those political views are formed based on information derived almost solely from their chosen newspaper (possibly the Mail), and therefore derived from a source that has no shame in lying or at least distorting the truth. Perhaps if they got their news from a source which didn't have such a callous disregard for the truth, their views might be less extreme, but certainly quite different.
I write bullshit
The point back then was that the Imac was the Internet Mac. Anything small enough to fit on a floppy was sent via email. Napster was all the rage at the time. People weren't adverse to downloading files of that size. If you needed something bigger, Zip drives were very prevalent and CD-R was coming into it's own.
I used a 4 MB USB flash drive. Yes only 4 MB, but larger than the 1.44 MB floppy it replaced. Before that I was using 100 MB Zip drives before the click of death.
Insightful my ass. You don't even know if you're disagreeing with the post you are replying to!! MacDouches...
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
Despite warnings, people did something they weren't supposed to, and then they get upset because the warning wasn't explicit enough? Are you sure this wasn't in America? Sounds pretty American to me.
"Teach a man to build a fire, and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life."
here's a demo disc image:
http://scr3.golem.de/?d=0706/ecodisc&a=52735&s=5
The warning on that one is much clearer. The plain 'english' still leaves a bit to be desired, but the graphics are quite clear.
What does that mean? For an English newspaper, this seems a remarkably odd way to say "Warning: Do Not Use On Mac" or similar. I read that and recognised there was something about Apples, but it's not clear. What's an Apple slot? Is there one in my drive? Like Alice in Wonderland, we know all the words but don't understand the sentence.
I had to re-read it to get the right meaning. It's like one of those pictures - is it a vase or two women's faces? Or is it too early for me and my brain is just not working yet? I'm starting to lean towards that one.
There was another little picture with the words "tray drive (tick)" so I guess any slot-in drive is bad because only tray drives get the tick. It's still not as clear as it should be.
In addition to the poor wording, PC users need to recognise that Mac users have often been warned in the past about things that were perfectly harmless. "This website does not support Macs" usually means "change your browser agent to IE because we detected Safari." Lots of those interactive DVDs said the extra features were PC-only, but the film itself played just fine. We learn to ignore most warnings given by media outlets, because they're often just covering themselves.
It's not *quite* as simple as saying Mac users are illiterate. We're elitist assholes, but not illiterate.
I'm fairly certain your parent post was pointing out how people bitched up a fit about the iMac not having that piece of junk back in 1998, not when the major PC builders finally dropped them from their standard configuration within the last 2 years.
Maybe because things might have changed a bit in 8+ years? Many people were still using floppy disks in 1998 (and as pointed out, there was no alternative supplied for writing media). A few years later, floppy disks are dead and every computer has CDRW or even DVDRW, along with support for memory cards.
And actually, I read the OP (and probably the Grandparent) as taking the piss out of people who claimed that the iMac was some revolutionary ("high technology") machine for not having a floppy drive. (Even if that is worth a claim to fame, the Amiga CDTV did it years before anyway.)
The point of it is to make up for the lack of an eject button for the drive!
(at least on my mac mini)
Professor Karmadillo Songs of Science
I still have no idea what you mean by this. There is an option in preferences->Viewing "Display unread messages in bold". Is that it ? There is also a menu item 'View -> Organize by thread', which changes the view, but not to what you're describing...
Did you consider moving/resizing the Mail window, if it's obscuring the dock ? And I'm not sure what this "options window" is either - you are sure you're using Mail.app that comes with OSX, aren't you ?
Why is Apple going out of its way to hide the existence of options for unwanted one-handed people? Why do they think ctrl-click is easier for two-handed people, than right-clicking?
Those questions are nonsense. If Apple didn't want to provide right-clicking, they simply wouldn't. They do provide it, so they obviously do want people to use it. Which is why every desktop and laptop can do right-clicks, despite *apparently* having a single-button mouse/trackpad. You keep on flogging this dead horse, and it's still not going anywhere. Your own ignorance of the extensive use of right-clicking within Apple's OS and apps is not a good argument.
iMovie
I've never used iMovie, but the response from someone above seems reasonable "save frame as" would imply you can both save a given frame, and name it what you want...
iPhoto
The desktop is an example. You can put the files wherever you want. I'm definitely getting a "waah, waah, waah" vibe from you now.
As for the menu item, it does exist. I've just used it. Just in case you're being incredibly dense, the option is "Show File", not "Show in Finder".
iChat
[sigh] No, you don't have to store anything anywhere. Again, it was an example. I'd expected you to delete the file from the desktop immediately afterwards. Since you apparently require deliberate instructions, here you go:
Seems pretty straightforward to me. The same drag/drop works from photo-booth by the way...
Simon.
Physicists get Hadrons!
Well then...seems that this 'evil right wing, middle class' paper outsells your liberal stuff. So..to you, the wingnut, makes it evil.
Compare this to fox news. It clobbers all other cable news shows...
"Folks, I'm no fan of reality...Who is Britannica to tell me that George Washington owned slaves? If I want to say he didn't, that's my right! And now, thanks to Wikipedia, it's also a fact. We should apply these principles to all information! All we need to do is convince a majority of people that some factoid is true, for instance, that Africa has more elephants today than it did ten years ago. Now, I don't know if that's actually true. But if it was true, boy, that would be a real blow to the environmentalists. As usual, the Bush administration is on the cutting edge of information management. While they've admitted that Saddam did not possess weapons of mass destruction, they've also insinuated he did have weapons of mass destruction--insinuations that have been repeated over and over again on cable news for the past 3 and a half years. And now, the result is, 18 months ago, only 36% of Americans believed it, but 50% of Americans believe it now! Man, that number's growing almost as fast as the population of African elephants!...What we're doing is bringing democracy to knowledge. Now, the "blame ignorance first" crowd is gonna say that something is either true or it isn't, and it doesn't matter how many people agree....If you go against what the majority of people perceive to be reality, you're the one who's crazy!...Together, we can create a reality we all agree on: the reality we just agreed on."
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
I haven't even used a CD to upgrade a distro in a long time. This assumes you have a second computer with the space. It's not hard to set up net (or flash etc) installs anymore, and once you've made it work you'll never go back to CD/DVD distros.
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
We had problems with the kids punching out the grilles in the new emacs. And then later punching out the exposed cones. It took three emacs left with dual metal cavities in their front faces before they started locking the lab when no teacher was supervising it.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
They quite clearly call it a DVD drive, but it is not one.
Of course not. There is no point to measuring how big the difference is, when we know that downloading is by far the best way to go. If something were to come within an order of magnitude, then precise measurement might not be a total waste of time.
Don't forget that drives use quite a bit of juice to spin the discs as well.
I run Linux, but I prefer Apple laptops precisely because they have a slot loading drive. Having a tray drive on a laptop isn't a dealbreaker for me, but I am significantly less likely to go for one. Every laptop with a tray loading drive I've known of has had the tray cease to come out easily --- if at all --- well before the life of the laptop is up. The only problem I've ever had with a slot loading drive is that you can't put in small-sized disks. Maybe my experience is unusual, but it's the only one I have.
Look out!
Calling them DVD drives certainly does that, and really, not coming clean with the fact that they're *not* is enough.
Are you seriously trying to claim that optical disks are outdated technology? CD, DVD, HD DVD, Blu Ray? That's all old news that computers shouldn't come with anymore?
You Apple fans are really something else. You'll excuse just about anything.
If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
For this "options window", I guess I'm still not understanding how you can't move/resize the window. Perhaps at this point, if you could put an image up on a webserver somewhere... You're not describing it well enough for me to grasp the problem. Some points
I'm ignorant of why they decided to make the help option tell you the HARDER way to do stuff
It's common knowledge that on the Mac, a right-click is the exact equivalent of a ctrl-click. It's almost certainly documented in your manual, though I don't have one on-hand to check. I suspect the reason they document the ctrl-click is because it is *always* possible to do it that way. Would you prefer documentation that instructed you to 'right click to get a menu' ? If you were unaware of the ctrl-click == right-click, you would wonder how it was possible to right-click a single-button mouse!!
The rest of your post seems to be dedicated to saying "it doesn't do that for me". Well, it *does* do that for me. I tried the drag-and-drop operation before I wrote about it, both from iPhoto and from photo-booth.
Reading this thread again, and given your ranting and general attitude, I think I've had enough - find your own damn ways to do things, and enjoy ranting about how bad they are from now on...
Simon.
Physicists get Hadrons!
Right, because the incremental additional load on all the computers between you and the download site takes virtually no resources at all. Fixed...
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
I particularly love the way that you can add files to projects by drag-and-drop! Oh, wait, no you can't, you have to add them with an "Add file" dialog.
Interesting... drag and drop is the way I've always done it... But at least you can add a whole bunch at once! Oh, wait, no you can't, you can only add one at a time.
Interesting... drag and drop multiple is how I usually do it... But at least the dialog box remembers where the files were so you don't have to navigate your directory structure again and again for every single file! Oh, wait, no it doesn't, it always goes right back to the project directory.
And that's before we get onto the really fun details, like the only way to change the build settings for your project is to right-click on the build target name and select the intuitively named "Get Info" option.
These I'll give you. Apple, king of user interface design? Don't make me laugh. OS 9 was very good, but it's been downhill all the way since they abandoned usability in favour of useless eye candy. Well, I didn't like Aqua at first, but after I was using it for awhile, it kind of grew on me. Now Platinum just looks out of place.
Stop! Dremel time!
The floppy drive was replaced long before the iMac and was initially replaced by a ZIP drive. If you have a PowerMac G3 or G4 you'll most likely see a 100 or 250MB ZIP drive, that's not a floppy. iMac's never had a floppy device and the last floppy drive for Apple products was found in 1998.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
"British Mail On Sunday" It's British (Mail on Sunday) not (British Mail) On Sunday. Right-associative. (Like their politics)
-1 not first post
I actually have to wonder why the drives were not designed to cope with this. When you write software you don't assume your data input is sane ( at least not if you want stability ), now I recognize that designing a drive you have a lot more ways that the input could be broken, and I wouldn't expect a drive to gracefully reject nitric acid, but assuming these disks are the same shape and size as normal disks, then I'd argue that the drive shouldn't be built in a way which causes it to break if there is something wrong with the disk. It doesn't excuse the vendor from breaking the disks in the first place, but I am a bit surprised that the drives would actually be damaged by it. Fail to read them, sure, but actual damage...
The idea was to make it thin and light. The MacBook Air is a subnotebook, and subnotebooks typically do not have optical drives built in with the goal of keeping the size, weight, and power requirements down.
Damn, chill out and learn. You just need to work on understanding your software and your system, plus some basics of Mac usage in general.
Mail - You're just flabbergasting yourself, take a breath. To turn off a rule in mail you just uncheck it. Is the Preferences window so large that things are behind the Dock? (It's called the "Dock" by the way.) Hide the Dock then shrink the window... or better yet, just move the window upwards. General advice: Put the Dock on the side of the screen, it works better there.
iMovie - The option you want is "Create Still" and it's in a discoverable place in the menu bar. Control-click is right click, what's your point? If you want to use one hand get a multi-button mouse with a wheel. Spend the $15 and save yourself the headache. "Video Capture" is totally the wrong term, so you wouldn't find what you were looking for. Video capture is the act of capturing video from some source, not converting a frame into a JPEG. What you want is "Frame Capture." Or, if all you want is what you see on the screen, just switch to fullscreen, pause at the frame you want and press Command-Shift-3 to take a screenshot. Why are you digging through the Finder? Because you don't realize there's a simple way, and you didn't bother to find out. Some clever Googling can help you - don't be so quick to assume.
Photobooth - Drag the photo you want from wherever you see it onto the desktop. Done. If you sent it to iPhoto to crop it, then you have given it to iPhoto to care for. You need to understand the paradigm of iPhoto. Once photos are given to iPhoto it becomes your pathway to those images. There is never any good reason to go into the iPhoto album folders. The proper way to send images out of iPhoto is to use EXPORT in the FILE menu. Command-Shift-E. If on the other hand you had dragged the photo to the desktop you could also have any image editor to edit it.
iChat - Yes you can just drag an image on top of your buddy icon to change it, assuming that you're dragging a file proxy. And when you drag an image from iPhoto to iChat you are dragging an image file proxy. I just tried it and it worked fine! Copy-paste from an image viewer/editor to any image target also works. As for expecting iPhoto to have an "Export to iChat" function? Well, first that's the wrong use of the word "Export" which has a formal meaning in most programs. Second of all, iChat isn't really a common target for images. It has an interface to change your buddy icon, but how often is that needed? Should iPhoto also have "Send to TextEdit" just because you can paste images into documents?
Just learn how to use your system, and you'll find it's just fine. You only flabbergast yourself with all these complaints based on ignorance of the software. Get a tutor, and take the time to listen and learn. Breathing exercises may also help, if you have a hard time sitting still.
Good luck mastering your Mac experience!
-- thinkyhead software and media
And newer Macs don't support a third mouse button in program like Xfig, because you can't chord their 'two mouse' interface.
Don't you remember all those external floppy/zip/ls120 drives hanging off of nearly every freakin' iMac? Dropping the floppy drive from a consumer PC was a good idea in the year 2000, not in 1998. Dropping the floppy without a decent built-in replacement was moronic.
One (1) metric fucktonne.
Consciousness is a myth. Trust me.
I was asking what the point of his post was. Not what the point of removing these devices was. As I was trying to communicate in my post, the issue of optical drives is becoming null and void in many situations.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
And here I thought it was common knowledge that British people believe they'd perish if they brushed their teeth.
Debatable. Remember, the thing sold like hotcakes, no matter how much we thought it was crap.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Lots of long words, yet apparently in your previous post you didn't appear to know the difference between "your" and "you're". I'd suggest it's best to not argue points of comprehension if you can't even get your own house in order. In particular when it was blindingly obvious that UbuntuDupe was being ironic.
Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
But will it disappear in a puff of smoke when I drag it onto the desktop? Some things do, like (the link to) my home directory from the left panel of Finder.
But dragging into the left panel of Finder creates a link.
Neither of which is copying.
Nor are any of those the most logical behaviour, namely that's which happens in the real world when you grab something, drag it somewhere else, and drop it - it moves to the new location.
So was deleting, creating a link, copying, or even moving the intuitive behaviour for the drag and drop you suggest?
Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
Give it up. The GP is a loser. He doesn't WANT help. He wants to whine. Some people are just like that.
"terrorism" and "pedophilia" are the root passwords to the Constitution
First, I'm SO sorry for describing the dock as a bar.
Mail: Thanks for admitting my point. When trying to unfuck-up the appearance, I CAN'T EVEN GET OUT OF A WINDOW UNTIL I FIGURE OUT HOW TO MOVE SOMETHING I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO DESCRIBE YET. If you don't see how that's a user interface problem, I really don't know what to tell you. Why are MacBooks getting shipped with something that can lock them inside a window like that?
iMovie: I already have a real mouse, you just missed the point again.
You still haven't explained why iMovie doesn't let me just right click on a frame and let me export it with a name I like. I searched for stills, and a result came up promising to tell me how to make them, and it told me THE EXACT SAME THING I LEARNED THE OTHER WAY. Specifically, that I have to go the roundabout way of making a NEW clip with that as a still picture, and THEN go dig it out of finder, each of them having the same name.
iPhoto: Unfortunately, I still can't export that way, OR move the picture like you suggested. After getting home, I documented the problem in a video. However, afterward, I found out the problem was that I have to close out of iPhoto, then re-open it, and then go to the albums again. Dragging the photo doesn't work before that, nor is there an export option. I guess I was supposed ot know that.
ichat -- Same problem as in iPhoto, the photo couldn't be moved until I came back to the album by clicking on the right parts of the side menu.
Yeah, I can get a tutor, but you're missing the point. Macs are supposed to be easy to use. LOCKING ME INTO MAIL BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW TO MOVE THE DOCK IS NOT EASY TO USE. Making me go through some convoluted process just to export a damn still is not easy to use. Not letting me immedately move around stuff I edited in iPhoto is not easy to use. Yeah, there's some stuff you just have to learn, but there's also stuff that's inexcusable. Everything here is the latter.
Here's the documentation of my problems: YouTube (may be a while before approved)
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
When's the last time you used your DVD/CDRW drive?
December 20th, when I burned a copy of the answers to my last final of the semester to CD on my MacBook to turn in. Considering that roughly 70-80% of the students in my law school classes that use notebooks are using Macs, that's a decision that they made which may be add odds with the use of Macs in an educational setting in the future.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
When it let loose, the force was powerful enough to blow the front door off the drive, send a cloud of shards throughout the room and inside the case, and destroyed the drive. I even found some fragments which had ricocheted into the kitchen. I only recovered about 3/4 of the CD. Not sure what happened to the rest.
"Be grateful for what you have. You may never know when you may lose it."
My memory is fine. less than a minute to upload a 1 MB file. Floppy drives took the same amount of time to save. I used Netscape. Never a fan of Claris Emailer, but I digress. I worked in service for a Apple Authorized Service Center in 98. I am aware of internet reports of a "click of death" I saw very little of this. The reason it had a short span was due to the quick decrease in price of burners and media. Not to mention every computer had a CD reading device. I do remember the external drives hanging off Macs. But was that due to necessity for a floppy replacement, graphic artists use large files and Macs (remember Syquest drives before floppies were removed from Macs and Zips were introduced), or struggle of end users to accept a new paradigm?
Of course not. There is no point to measuring how big the difference is, when we know that downloading is by far the best way to go. If something were to come within an order of magnitude, then precise measurement might not be a total waste of time.
There's no point in measuring the fundamental energy cost per-bit of the Internet? It seems like a terribly valid concern.
Considering all the computers to transfer it are already on, I can't imagine it being much more at all.
"Considering that the child porn has already been manufactured, there's not much harm in looking at it."
"Considering that the cows would have been slaughtered anyway, there's no harm in eating beef."
Etc...
Be careful what you wish for -- you just might get it.
The video is live.
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
What's bad about electricity?
Speaking as somebody who lives in an area impacted by significant hydropower development, I can answer... "Quite a bit."Must have been vim users.
Wish I had mod points. +1, Insightful
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
...then this is the least that you deserve.
Sadly, I don't currently have the mod points to mod you "troll", so instead, I posted a video response to the YouTube video instead. Seriously, is "Reveal In Finder" that hard to find?
I don't think that Mac OS X is perfect, but I'd like to see you name another OS that is more user-friendly.
His story will make you cry
His music will make you sing
His triumph will make you cheer
The mail on sunday will make you VOMIT UNCONTROLLABLY.
I wrote my first program at the age of six, and I still can't work out how this website works.
Less than 1 minute to upload a 1 MB file on a dialup connection? I don't know what kind of dialup connection you were using, but at maximum theoretical speed (56Kbps) downloading a 1MB file would take approx 2.5 minutes. Upload speed for this type of connection is a theoretical maximum of 33.6Kbps.
Okay, I'd love to make a video in response again, but:
1) You didn't follow the protocols I did. See here. I took a photo in PhotoBooth, then edited in iPhoto. Did you do that? No, you looked at existing iPhoto albums. If you actually follow the steps I did, that option doesn't come up.
2) No shit, Sherlock. The question was, why do I have to add a whole new clip to my movie, that I'm just going to have to delete anyway, THEN find that still in Finder, THEN rename it, then move it, then delete it, when all I should have to do is right-click and save where I want it, with the name I want?
3) Yes, it's possible for me to, eventually, despite being on a Mac for the first time in ages, figure out how to move the Dock, something I should never really have to do, in order to get out of a window within the mail client. But why do I have to learn how to move the dock in order to change mail rule? What kind of thinking went into that? I showed you that there's no option to scroll down on that window, despite it being tall and the fact that it can get taller. I showed you you can't even move it up!
I'm really interested in knowing how it's "good user interface design" to have to kind of dependency.
I'm also interested in knowing how my not upgrading to Leopard to be like all my sheep Mac buddies has anything to do with my complaint.
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
You can design the drive with an extra pillar in the centre of the drive near the hub, but it has the possibility to scratch the disk, so they are sometimes left out.
The extra lever can be built in to the hub, so it never touches anything but the center ring of the disc, or the retaining mechanism on the hub can retract completely.
Personally I have never liked slot drives. You can't use small or irregular discs in them either, or eject them manually without power.
In addition, the Mac does have an intuitive interface...unless you define "intuitive" as "works just like the system I have adjusted my behaviour to put up with its quirks". That is, if you are expecting the Mac to make simple tasks hard-to-do, then you'd be wrong.
It's a simple matter of complex programming.
I was pointing out that if you are as dissatisfied with Mac OS X Tiger as your whining on here and in your video makes you out to be, there are alternatives. You have an Intel Mac. You could install any OS you want to on it. That you are still using 10.4 merely indicates to me that you are going out of your way to find things to troll and whine about. Apple still supports 10.4, as well, for that matter, and you could submit a bug report on your Mail window problem (if it really is a problem; in your video I could not make out the bottom of the window being below the Dock). But I'm betting that you've submitted no bugs, as you're just here to troll and whine.
For that matter, it's not like Apple is forcing you not to use another mail client, there are a quite a few of free choices (Thunderbird, Eudora, Correo, and Mulberry spring to mind).
1. Well, I can make the video again, and show better precision. Would you believe me then?
2. My claim is that the interface is poor. I have laid out what a good interface would be. Mac does not meet that. That substantiates my claim that Mac's interface sucks. It does not contradict me to show that hey, maybe after the fifth edition, they'll add an easy obvious feature that signficantly improves the interface. My claim is that the interface NOW is bad.
Here is a good interface.
-Right click on frame.
-Export frame as [name], where I want.
Here is what I actually get:
-Right click on frame.
-Add frame as still to video.
-WARNING WARNING YOUR PROJECT HAS BEEN MODIFIED, THAT TOTALLY F'S EVERYTHING UP, YOU'LL HAVE TO REUPLOAD, BLAH BLAH BLAH
-Show frame in finder.
-Rename.
-Cut, navigate through finder, paste where I want.
-Repeat for every still that I want.
-Delete still clips from project.
-Project still thinks it has been changed and all indicators show it needs to be reuploaded, even though I never once wanted to change it at all.
Now, justify that interface decision for a company that prides itself on the user interface.
3. No, it isn't aware, and no it didn't. It's blindingly clear from the clip you already saw: the window extends into the dock. End of story.
As for the rest:
-What does it matter that I can upgrade? Is the problem fixed in the newer version? Why all the whining about how I haven't fellated Steve Jobs with all my friends because he wants me to get Leopard? It came out, what, two months ago?
As for mail:
Me: The mail client, the one Mac designed with its ultra advanced user interface design philosophy, has a critical interface problem.
You: No it doesn't because you could use another mail client.
Where do they even find people like you?
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
To be one clouds your judgment.
If the company putting the computer together and putting their brand name on it is not responsible, then nobody else is.
In specialized fields you don't just ask "oh well, sell us dome drives for our entire production line, it is up to you to do the right thing". You *must* be pretty specific and one would have hoped this would include requirements for compliance with common industry wide standards.
Apple is a great company, but when they screw up they should be taken to account, even fanboys should be able to discern this.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Me: I have demonstrated that you are wrong.
You: But I *say* it does this, therefore it does, because I can whine like an emo-kid on YouTube while shooting a badly angled video that is too unclear to show anything.
But I'm sure that the only way you can further your trolling argument is to duck the points I made, refuse to answer questions (bug reports, screenshots), and whine that it's all Apple's fault that you can't do [insert feature here].
People like me are found by trolls like you who post something that is absolutely false to my experience. I read the "boohoo, iPhoto won't show a picture in Finder" and immediately thought "but yes, it will." I then proceeded to prove you wrong, and you're still whining about it. Next time, hone your arguments to include some facts and screen captures which provide corroboration.
The reason I provided a "badly angled" video rather than a screenshot was to prove to you that the menu came about the way I claimed. A screenshot can be modified so that menu appears to be where it never actually would appear. Now, if you can't see that the mail rule window was spiling over into the dock, and that the cancel/ok buttons weren't available to use, you're lying. I will, however, later today, provide you with the screenshots.
The video could be better angled if I did a video directly of the screen, but I notice in all your zeal to tell me how easy it is to do screen shots, you can't easily explain that necessary part to me.
As for Leopard:
1) How does the existence of a newer version prove that these flaws have been removed?
2) Why does it take the fifth version of the tenth operating system (~3rd sustaining video editing) to do something so obvious, when all Mac fans claim that Apple is "expert" at interface design, just, just, top of the line?
3) Are you really going to rest on "Your complaint was totally valid up to October 2007, but hey, who the hell expected a good inteface in *that* time?"
I will concede that you cannot do #2 with only one click (OMG, it takes two), but that does not translate as "Mac OS X's interface sucks".
Okay, first, it is a LIE that saving stills takes "OMG" two clicks. Rather, I have to add the FALSE information to iMovie that my project has been modified, and I have to do quite a lot of clicking to get the still and put them where I want them with the names I want.
Yes, these complaints constitute POOR design because they add untold frustration. Imagine what it's like for Grandma trying to undarken her mail subject lines, or getting locked in Mail because she was dumb enough to open a mail rule window that spills onto the dock that she hasn't learned how to move. Imagine how much unnecessary crap I have to do get stills and how it makes the "modification" status of my videos a lie. Imagine how much frustration there is for me to have just modified a picture and now have no clear way to upload it since it won't drag.
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
Apple is using Panasonic slot-load drives.
Not sure whether either company is representing them as able to do anything with ecodiscs.
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
And you continue to fail to produce screenshots illustrating what you say. My video showed the Rules screen of Mail in Leopard, which looks nothing like what yours is purported to look like. Watch it again if you don't believe me.
My video proves this to be true, I did it with 2 clicks. Count them:
In case you failed to count that, that was 2 clicks. You could also do it in 4, if you didn't hold down the mouse button. Try it. Am I lying? No.
Even if your hypothetical grandmother had a window trapped behind the Dock (which you have yet to prove), and I have already shown not to exist in the current version of the operating system, she is not locked into Mail.app, there is nothing to prevent her from opening a web browser, accessing the Help menu, or going into System Preferences. So she is hardly "locked in". Please demonstrate the inability to "undarken" subject lines; I don't use Mail.app, and you have yet to show this issue. I've already illustrated that it is quite easy to get stills and only takes a few seconds.
However you try to twist my statements does not make them untrue when I have demonstrated them with visual evidence, unless you are claiming that I altered that video. Seriously, if you're going to keep arguing this, bring facts to the discussion.
They're supposed to have guide rails, and Apple's don't. Otherwise this story would be about slot loading drives, not Macs.
I looked, they call it a "Combo Drive (DVD-RW, CD-RW)". It's not a DVD-RW, and probably not a CD-RW either.
Ecodiscs work in DVD drives. Apple's drives (I don't give a shit what Chinese sweatshop manufactures them) do not read ecodiscs. Therefore, Apple's drives are not DVD drives.
Solution in one sentence: Turn the MacBook iBook PowerBook upside down, put it on a desk, slap it while pressing the eject button. Happened to me a couple of months ago when a German mag (brandeins) included a DVD and the solution worked for a number of "victims". No guarantees of course, but much more harmless than the hardcore creditcard, scewdriver or knife methods you can find on the web. This article describes the solution in more detail including photos... Have fun
Oops, you forgot to explain how to record what's going on in the screen (and perhaps what the microphone hears) into a video file so I don't have to hunt through Mac's non-helpful help menu to find out how.
Before I get to recording that proof (and yes, it exists, your pretending not to see is just a delay tactic), I want to point out that your 2-clicks claim is indeed a lie. Remember, my goal is to have the still in a FOLDER of my choice, with a NAME of my choice. Right clicking and choosing to add a clip with that still, is NOT my goal. All it does it create a file with a non-unique name and in a useless place. It does take more than two clicks to do that. Worse, it makes my project (and you haven't said a single thing about this yet, not even your usual dismissive remark) appear to have been edited, when I *haven't* (the new clip must be deleted) and I don't *want* to edit it. I merely want to extract the stills.
You can hem and haw and rationalize around this, but it's still there -- yep, even in Leopard, the ultra-mature OS version that has been out for a FULL two months.
Also, "undarken" is a valid term.
Finally, do you really think that if a grandmoter clicked the "rules" option after going into preferences, she'd be able to easily figure out how to make it go away?
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
No, I didn't forget to tell you how to do this; it's not a feature built into Mac OS X (or any other operating system of which I am aware). I use Snapz Pro X. It is capable of recording both a Mac audio track and a microphone track.
Adding additional steps to a process is just a tactic to refuse to admit that I proved you wrong. It only takes one more click to rename a file after the steps that I demonstrated. (Click and hold for a second on the file that is selected after "Reveal in Finder", then let go. You'll have Finder set for you to type a new name for that file.) So it takes a whopping three clicks and some typing to grab a still from a clip in iMovie and rename it. That's just so difficult it's criminal. Apple is stealing your time! If you merely want to extract stills (instead of actually editing movies) and are unhappy about how long it takes, you should be using Quicktime or another application, not iMovie. With the pro version of Quicktime, you can export the whole clip to a series of stills with only a few mouse-clicks and keystrokes, should you wish to do so.
You seem to be failing to state what should be in Leopard that isn't there.
You also seem to want to shift the debate from just how you're wrong to semantics. You failed to give an example of what would prevent your hypothetical grandmother from being able to "undarken" the subject line. Stick with the program, emo-boy!
In my video, if she does not know how to use the close button to close a window in Mac OS X, the Rules pane in Mail.app's preferences is the least of her worries. If that's the case, she doesn't know how to close ANY windows.
I said that there was no point in measuring the difference. If you have another reason to measure the overall power consumption of the internet, then it may be worth the effort (although coming up with an accurate figure will still be very difficult and thus expensive). But measuring the energy cost of the internet simply to compare it with DVDs as a movie-distribution medium would be a colossal waste of time, money, and energy.
This is the Daily Mail. Its readers don't use the Internet because they're afraid of the assorted pornographers, paedophiles, perverts, phishermen and other things beginning with the letter "P".
As they do not support the DVD format. If they did, the ecodiscs would work.
I used a 4 MB USB flash drive.
Highly unlikely. The first USB flash drives weren't commercially available until late 2000 (and cost a hell of a lot more than a stack of floppy disks).
The point back then was that the Imac was the Internet Mac. Anything small enough to fit on a floppy was sent via email. Napster was all the rage at the time. People weren't adverse to downloading files of that size.
Bollocks. When the iMac was released, Napster was still a year away from even existing and 3 years away from the peak of its popularity. Back then, internet connections were *far* from ubiquitous and even for those that had them, a 56k dialup was likely to be it.
(This is before even getting into the whole "backups" and "have it with you all the time" aspect.)
If you needed something bigger, Zip drives were very prevalent and CD-R was coming into it's own.
Which was, you know, my point. Removing the the floppy disk was a good idea, lack of a replacement was not.
Older PCs don't have a CD drive. Older TVs don't have a HDMI socket. Older Macs don't ship with a two-button mouse.
The difference is there weren't thousands of PC fanbois claiming that the lack of a CD drive meant they were somehow superior to computers with CD drives.
Funny how that when Macs do come with two-button mice, it's finally acknowledged as a useful thing.
It is Britain's second biggest-selling daily newspaper after The Sun
And it was the first to sell 1 million copies a day.
Well then...seems that this 'evil right wing, middle class' paper outsells your liberal stuff.
So..to you, the wingnut, makes it evil.
The fact that it is popular does not change what the OP says - that just makes it sadder.
Or, according to you, is The Sun the best paper ever?
And I'm not sure what his "liberal stuff" is - he never mentioned he reads a paper. Neither do I.
Greenpeace is getting smarter I see!
The Secret Diary of Steve Ballmer
Still haven't made the improved video (even though we all know you're going to pretend not to see anything in that one too). You're still wrong.
Adding additional steps to a process is just a tactic to refuse
No. The goal *this whole time* is to get the stills in a folder I want, with the names I want. That was the problem description from the very first post. Again, here is the ENTIRE process I have to go through, just to do that for *one* clip:
-Right click, ADD clip that I DON'T WANT
-FALSIFY modification status of the clip (hm, a lot of silence from you on this one, I guess the fact that the information about when the movie was last modified is completely useless doesn't really bother you) because it's now "been modified" even though I don't want to modify it
-Right click to find the still in finder.
-Right click and rename the still.
-Right click to cut.
-Navigate through finder and paste where I want.
-Delete still from movie.
-Make mental note to self that project really hasn't been modified since last upload, even though iMovie says it has.
(How many clicks was that again?)
Most of that has to be repeated each time, by the way.
If you merely want to extract stills (instead of actually editing movies) and are unhappy about how long it takes, you should be using Quicktime or another application, not iMovie. With the pro version of Quicktime
Whoa whoa whoa, I'm supposed to buy a professional-oriented program when all I want to is export a few stills? How much sense does that make? And, of course, use its crappier frame-navigating functionality. Heaven forbid I want to take stills out of a movie PROJECT. Who the fuck would ever want to extract stills from a PROJECT? Why would you EVER do that in the course of making a movie?
You seem to be failing to state what should be in Leopard that isn't there.
Oh, you mean Tiger, the OS rev that everyone was suppposed to be using and enjoying the BRILLIANT INTERFACE DESIGN of not but a few months ago? Well, most of this applies to Leopard so I guess it doesn't matter:
Ability to save stills where I want instead of having to add them to a movie just to delete them again. Mail subject lines that aren't darkened. Mail subject lines for which there's some reason why they're darkened. Windows in Mail.app that don't spill onto the dock. Ability to upload photos from an iPhoto album using a website's given interface that wasn't designed specifically for mac users, without having to navigate deep into bizarre directories that I'm not supposd to know exist. Ability to find photos I just cropped through right-clicking.
You also seem to want to shift the debate from just how you're wrong to semantics.
Where?
You failed to give an example of what would prevent your hypothetical grandmother from being able to "undarken" the subject line. Stick with the program,
Yes, I did give an example. The fact that the name of that "feature" (bug) is non-obvious and not discoverable in help. I can guarantee you no Grandma new-to-mac user would know how to change that.
In my video, if she does not know how to use the close button to close a window in Mac OS X,
She does know how to close windows. But look at the top bar of that window: nothing there will close it! And what about the OK and cancel that Grandma knows about? Where are they? ON TOP OF THE DOCK where they're useless! You're not very good at this, are you?
Oh, and for extra fun, see if Grandma can email me pictures in her little don't-access-this-any-other-way iPhoto albums. And let's hope and pray pray pray that she doesn't drag pictures into the body of the email thinking I'll see the pictures inside the text body, when really Mail.app doesn't endorse the concept of WYSIWIG for emails.
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
And you're still refusing to produce screenshots or a video clearly showing what you claim to be right, whereas I have the video documenting that you're wrong. Like I have said in several previous posts, let's see some evidence, emo-troll-boy.
Because it's SO hard to move or rename a still after you export it from iMovie?
If you don't like the way that iMovie behaves, use a different app. VLC has a very simple method of taking stills. Video > Snapshot. But no doubt, if you used it, you'd cry over the fact that it doesn't prompt you to rename it (because it expects you to be smart enough to rename files in Finder).
Eh. I clicked "Submit" accidentally, instead of "Preview". Sorry. To continue...
If you don't like the way iMovie exports stills, there are free and commercial solutions that give you alternatives. I cited one of the advantages of a commercial alternative. To which your only response is to whine like a little bitch.
I said what I mean, but you do not demonstrate a level of reading comprehension great enough to debate it.
See most of this thread. Screenshots and/or video, or stop whining. Your laughable camera-work that makes it nearly impossible to follow what you're doing does not count for much.
See above, or tell me where to find this "rules" page that does not seem to be in either version of Mail that I compared (both on 10.4 and 10.5). I've documented the "Rules" preference in 10.5's Mail.app in my video, and it's the same on 10.4.
I know grandmothers who use Mac OS X's Mail.app to e-mail pictures, and they seem to have more of a clue what they are doing than you are.
If you want to keep arguing, come back with demonstrable evidence of your claims.
Apparently all "A" companies are afflicted with this problem, since Acer and AOpen also appear to sell systems with Matshita slot-load drives.
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.