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U.S. Confiscating Data at the Border
PizzaFace writes "U.S. Customs agents have long had broad authority to examine the things a person tries to bring into the country, to prevent the importation of contraband. The agents can conduct their searches without a warrant or probable cause to believe a crime has been committed. In recent years, Customs agents have begun using their authority to insist on copying data brought to the border on laptop computers, cell phones and other devices. The government claims that this intelligence-gathering by Customs is the same as looking in a suitcase. In response the EFF is filing a lawsuit attempting to force the government to reveal its policies on border searches. 'The question of whether border agents have a right to search electronic devices at all without suspicion of a crime is already under review in the federal courts. The lawsuit was inspired by some two dozen cases, 15 of which involved searches of cellphones, laptops, MP3 players and other electronics.'"
Police state anyone? Things are getting worse and worse.
Is this the same deal as this older post on /.?http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/08/1641209 I thought the supreme court agreed about the legality of this.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. indymedia
Were the summary written "EFF files lawsuit against data searches", it would make sense, but the summary freely admits that this has been happening for years. I could swear I've seen it discussed on Slashdot before.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Thank heavens for TrueCrypt.
Nice laptop you got there! Mind if I take a look? *browses through 100Gigs of torrents* Hrm... um, yes, I'll need to take this in. Please step out of the car, sir. *returns to office to watch the entire first season of Northern Exposure*
I just have a question for any legal scholars or experts in this field:
Does the 5th ammendment apply if I have strong encryption on my laptop? Can I simply refuse to give them the passphrase, or will I end up in Gitmo?
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
I believe I've said enough... ;-)
Seriously, this is going overboard. If this starts happening on a large scale, I'm buying a bunch of microSD cards and storing everything important on those instead (easier to hide).
I think more than a few corporations will object to this, though, if only because sensitive data really shouldn't find its way into the hands of these people... who knows what might leak?
OSx86 FTW
I've taken a number of international flights over the past few years. Every time I re-enter the US, I've never even had my bags searched by customs... Nor did anyone that I was flying with (that I noticed, at least).
It's pretty sad when Americans need to travel with blank laptops for fear of having their data seized by US border agents; in the past, that sort of thing was necessary when traveling behind the iron curtain.
It's also pointless, given that data can be stored easily and encrypted on the Internet, on flash drives (some of which are tiny), or even hidden steganographically.
You think Britney is bad? I'm sitting up here watching this train wreck in slow motion. You guys do have a constitution and guns still. That's more that we can say. Are you going to do anything about that police state, or watch America wimper into the abyss?
Backup a few of your CDs onto your laptop, and when Customs copies the data, tip off the RIAA. Let them fight with each other.
Obviously they're just trying to steal MP3s!
But it was confiscated.
Are Customs and Border Protection officers bound by copyright law like us mere mortals? Would they be violating the DMCA if they circumvented the measures I've put in place to protect my data (such as /bin/login and the screws that hold my laptop together)?
**calls up RIAA**
Hey, you want to know the biggest mp3 copying racket inside the US?.....
Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
Presumably the prequel to 1984 would have shown Big Brother to be a charismatic politician preaching what a democratic majority wanted to hear. The need for security only reasonably matched the need to protect against Oceania's enemies... He was respected, and his election was a free choice. He then began to change little things slowly.
Or...
A prior honest President genuinely though the security measures were necessary. Then a corrupt Big Brother saw that the mechanisms created could be exploited and was attracted to power. He then said all the right things and got himself elected. The tools to control were already in place.
Well, today in the US, and especially the UK, those mechanisms are already firmly in place. Even if your current government is not evil, there's nothing stopping the next one so being. With the new powers one can wield what evil person wouldn't want to gain control? One eventually will come to power. It is inevitable.
It's probably already too late.
is also unconstitutional. But these days we are encouraged to snigger, and call 'nuts' the one candidate out of the pack who says that the federal government should be made to obey the Constitution.
Do not carry data that sensitive on live gear, they've invented more secure connections like VPN to keep data where it is more safe.
Hivemind harvest in progress..
TrueCrypt 5.0 came out recently. Guess, you will be sent home then for not complying with some rules you don't know.
This is just a bit ridiculousness, you cannot actually expect to find anything of use for national security, anything of that nature, I'd imagine, would be sent over an encrypted channel into/out of the US. The only thing that they are doing are searching, without warrant, American citizens for "contraband data", and combine that with the current state of our copyright system, you can probably find cause to confiscate every single piece of modern electronics coming over the border. Go truecrypt 5 :)
Aside from the privacy and civil rights concerns, this is seriously unacceptable to just about any company with trade secrets. What is the point of the most paranoid security policies on company notebooks for internationally traveling employees, if they can't cross the border without their sensitive data getting searched?
Industrial espionage, including by the US, is a very real concern.
I was recently invited to visit some family in the US of A, but because of things like this, I'm not sure it would be wise to go. I mean, I'm running linux on my laptop. Obviously I'm a terrorist and communist. I also have a metre of hair, but fortunately no beard. Maybe my blue eyes will get me a free pass though.
Well, the thing that they are able to stop people from entering the country isn't a problem. The thing that they can do this without any rational reason at all is.
c++;
This almost happened to me a few weeks back.
Went over to the U.S. to install a product at a clients offices.
They asked me to start up me laptop to have a look.
Knowing that I had more then my fair share of DivX and mp3 this came as a bit of a shock.
And then I thought of all the questions i would get if i booted into my default Kubuntu.
Luckily I had WinXP left on a small partition so when the GRUB menu came up i just scrolled down to the bottom and booted windows.
The security drone never reacted to the GRUB menu or the fact that the XP system was completely blank. No book marks, no files, nothing.
5min later he was done and i got the laptop back.
So why they let people that have no clue about computer do a forensic-test-in-a-minute is beyond me.
If they REALLY wanted idiots to do it they should have a custom made Linux boot disc that scan the system for any "black listed" files.
Let me get this straight...
Border agent's copying things off your laptop is equivalent to looking through a suitcase?
I guess that copying MP3s is equivalent to listening to the songs in the record store.
Thanks US Border agents!
Find the most evil, vile malware possible and lace some memory sticks with it. Then, let them have at it.
saddams_wmd_secret_storage.rar, iran_atombomb.rar, bin_ladin_saudi_homeaddress sorry i work in the white house.
So, if my laptop were to contain copyrighted works such as my music collection does. If they were to make a copy of this work wouldn't they themselves be guilty? Someone should send the RIAA there way!
I don't give my business partner access to all my files so now the border agents are demanding access to them. There's sensitive company information in the files. What's to stop some one from hacking their system and gaining access to my company's information? I keep certain machines off the internet to avoid any possibility of hacking, do they do the same? Let's say a border agent copies legally bought music from my MP3 player then posts it on the web, am I responsible since it was my responsibility to keep those files secure and off the net? There's a massive potential for abuse over and above the looking for embarassing photos on some one's hard drive. We aren't talking FBI or CIA here. Most agents are underpaid and poorly trained. There's still a lot of confusion about what's allowed on planes and there is a lot of abuse in body searches. If the agents are already getting their jollies from patting down well known actors then what are the odds they'll be digging through personal files looking for dirt?
and they will keep the device in question.
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
"Eventually, he agreed to log on and stood by as the officer copied the Web sites he had visited, said the engineer, a U.S. citizen who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of calling attention to himself."
Then explain why you were checking all the Iranian sites. "Oh, the cable, of course. Please step over here sir."
Given this logic, how can you describe "copying data brought to the border" as "Confiscating Data at the Border"?
According to Merriam-Webster:
(I'll leave looking up "seize" as an exercise to the reader.)
-Peter
If they CAN refuse you entry, what happens if the country they send you back to denies you re-entry? Do you just spend the rest of your life hopping back and forth on planes until someone gives in?
I honestly, don't see how they could deny entry to a US citizen, for any reason. Can someone please clarify?
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
You may not have noticed this, but governments generally have rights that don't apply to individuals. For example, the government can legally jail or even kill someone, while you as an individual can not do the same.
A smart guy will just upload his data in an encrypted form to a webpage or something.
:P ). They're not going to be encumbered by those stupid police state tactics.
Then, he gets to the US, downloads the data via TOR (or a similar approach), and still be safe.
One characteristic of terrorists is that they're smart (until they commit suicide, that is
I'm sure all this data confiscation is done just to fool citizens into believing they're safer than before.
And then the RIAA and MPAA will demand that "illegal content" be stopped.
Every special interest group that can tie their interests to computer data will want in after that.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I've been subjected to this myself.
I live in San Diego, about 10 miles from the Mexico boarder. A lot of San Diegans, including myself, go down there all the time for clubs and cheap shopping. On the way back to the US, I've got about a 5% chance of being stopped and taken to Secondary Inspection-- I've been in Secondary 5 times in the past 5 years. The first agent who you speak to when going through the normal process can flag you to be in Secondary if he thinks something is suspicious or out of order.
Usually Secondary just involves a more detailed search of my car and 30 minutes of sitting in a waiting room with a bunch of Mexicans. One time in Secondary was quite different. In this case, the first guy asked me where I went in Mexico on this trip. I couldn't pronounce the name (Via Bueneventeura in Chapultapec, Tijuana), and I guess he thought I was making it up or telling him a story. He put a note on my windshield and directed me towards Secondary.
For some reason this particular Customs agent in Secondary didn't believe that I am who I said I am. He kept asking me why I would go to a foreign country without my passport (at the time, you only needed to bring a driver's license and that is all I ever brought with me). After asking me questions for over an hour (literally, what hospital was I born in? where did I go to elementary school? etc...) and looking me up in various databases, the guy starts going through my stuff.
The customs agent wanted to search my smartphone (Sony Ericsson P910i at the time), but he didn't know how to use it. I asked him what he thought he could possibly find in there that could be contraband. At any rate, he didn't know how to search my phone, and I wasn't going to help him. There was a big toothmark in my phone from where my dog chewed on it, and I told him that because of the damage to the touch screen, I couldn't actually go through the files on the phone anymore. He wasn't too happy with that answer, but he accepted it anyway.
Another hour later I started complaining to one of the supervisors on the floor-- I had been sitting in this smelly waiting room for 2+ hours with no access to a bathroom, and there was no apparent reason to keep holding me. By now the agent must have confirmed in at least 12 different databases that I am a US citizen, born and raised. I'm also just about the whitest nerdy white guy with a Boston accent that you could ever hope to meet; not exactly the archetype of a foreign agent or drug smuggler. The supervisor finally gave me leave to go.
Of course my car had been turned upside down-- glove compartment and everything else turned out. Rather than complain again, I just wanted to get out of there.
Since then I always bring a passport, and I definitely don't go across the boarder as often as I used to since that experience.
Just one more reason among many to download and use TrueCrypt. I've been using it for a long time now, and as long as it is as strong as it claims, I have been generally happy with its performance.
...except a month later, when I took the very same laptop from Texas to Florida, the scissors were confiscated on a flight then. Go figure.
On the topic though, I recently traveled to a foreign country and had my laptop with me. No one searched nuthin'. I even had a pair of sharp multi-tool scissors with me in the laptop bag, in the cabin, the whole way, and no one ever even caught it... At least 8 flights internationally.
I'm sure it is GW Bush's and Bill Gate's fault colluding with the RIAA somehow... I just haven't figure it out yet.
"They said I probly shouldn't fly with just one eye," "I am Bender. Please insert girder."
Good timing with the Truecrypt 5.0 release. This is search/seizure without cause and is against basic rights but this shouldn't be too big a deal. It isn't for me.
I travel with everything inside a Truecrypt hidden volume. My OS is exposed in the regular volume along with browser cache showing activity to news.google.com. That's it. The rest of the system is contained within a hidden volume.
I've been asked to turn my PC on and type in my "password" and I do so cheerfully. They see exactly what I allow them to see: The OS with browser cache to news.google.com. They seem satisfied and I get waved on.
I can play this game and I win. I'm not waiting for the courts to tell me what is/isn't right/wrong. I already know what's right/wrong. It's irrelevant (to me) how this all plays out in the courts. No thief, public or private gets my data.
-[d]-
There's a guy in Paris who is without a country. Been living in the airport for decades.
And by the way, even though the Supreme Court says passwords are protected by the 2nd and 5th Amendments, they've also ruled if you're at the border under control of Customs the Constitution doesn't apply because you aren't in the country.
Does this apply to US citizens coming back into the US or to foreigners entering the country? I can see how something like this could happen with foreigners, not that it's ok to do necessarily.
"During My Service In The United States Congress, I Took The Initiative In Creating The Internet." -Al Gore
It the laptop is password protected, there is an expectation of privacy and they would require a search warrant.
See Katz v. U.S., 389 U.S. 347, 350 (1967)
Looking for data being smuggled over the border? What a ridiculous idea...
Who would go to the trouble of transporting data on physical media, when it can be transmitted over the internet?
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Only an idiot is going to keep incriminating evidence on their person anyway. The authorities may just as well go ahead encourage everyone to use bootable CD's and SSH for personal/private/illegal stuff.
They don't have to send you back anywhere. Immigration and Customs Enforcement operate detention centers (read: prisons) around the country for people with problematic status.
So, no, there's no need to send you to Gitmo.
First it was the music industry and the movie industry complaining about easy copying of their content.
Now it's regular people whose digital information can be copied in full by law enforcement on crossing the border. Law enforcement can then take as much time as it wants examining the data bit by bit, reading your creative writing, sex videos with your wife, planning outlines, trade secrets, the next edition of "Harry Potter" if you are JK Rowling, etc.
The old rule is that you have no privacy interest when you cross the border. But now the privacy intrusion has the potential to be far greater than ever before. Maybe we need a new rule. Or maybe we just need to keep our info encrypted. Or save it on a flash drive sealed inside a swallowed condom.
How the hell is copying your data confiscating it? Come on, when you download a song, you aren't stealing it (confiscating it), and the same goes for when they copy your data. Sure, it's fucked up that they keep a copy, but it's not confiscation unless they keep the laptop or delete the data on it.
Next time I cross the border, remind me to carry a suitcase full of DVDs full of random data labeled "one-time pad disk 1," "one time pad disk 2," etc.
Let them waste their time copying those disks.
When they ask what they are, I'll tell them the truth: They are unused one-time pads that are designed to be used to encrypt corporate data. If they ask, I will also tell them truthfully that if they leave my sight they will not be used.
Oh, I'll also include a disk that has nothing but a copy of the Bill of Rights on it, just to see if they are paying attention.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
If I remember correctly, Kevin Mitnick was imprisoned for 5 years, 4.5 of them pre-trial; 8 months of solitary confinement, for copying files "worth" 160k (actual value much less)..
And now its "same as looking in a suitcase"??
obviously "who" does it makes a difference.. The government has your best interests at heart, honestly!!
customs took my flash drive into the away from me for 30 min because they said they wanted to copy it. they also took my paper notebook away for 30 min. I suspected they photocopied the entire thing. I felt very violated. especially since I'm a US citizen. border agents in other countries have never treated me like this.
Sir, this is a despicable argument.
The point is not that the US is "better" than some dictatorship or chaotic hell-hole.
The point is that the US today is much worse than the country defined by the US Constitution and bravely won by its founding citizens.
To compare the US to a dictatorship or chaotic hell-hole is an insult to every American who has fought and died to protect the ideals of the US Constitution.
As for your right to vote, it's true that the citizens of the US have not yet been asked to relinquish it. Instead, elections are a circus of toadies funded by powerful interests. The US has been brought to its current state by people who were ~elected~. Think about that if you decide that your Constitution expresses ideals worth fighting for and even dying for.
Great people conceived the US Constitution. Brave people have defended it and died defending it. The measure of the success of the US is NOT weather it is better than some dictatorship or chaotic hell-hole. The measure of the success of the US is whether it is the nation that the Constitution intended it to be.
Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
Can they access that from their most likely PC based computers? If they cannot, then what? Am I required to tell them how to do it? What if I have a particularly nasty Windows self actuating replicating data destruction type virus on my Mac, as defense against those who want to steal my data, and it gets into their system and it destroys their data base? Then what? Didn't they ask to copy all my data?
Republican leadership = Idiocracy
They're not confiscating your data, they're just trying to help by creating an off-site backup for you. So if your harddrive goes kaboom you can go to the customs office, ask them nicely and they will hand over a copy of the data you had with you at your arrival.
Aren't they a nice bunch?
As I recall, under long-standing International treaty and law, a nation has the right to control anything and everything that passes its borders. In pre cybernetic days, this meant that all documents could be searched, reviewed, etc. Historically this has been an excellent intelligence gathering activity. Oh yes, and this includes mail, packages, as well as the baggage of persons crossing the borders.
Did I mention that this applies to ALL nations ? And they ALL do it ?
The only exception was to materials under 'Diplomatic Bag' seals, which was a loophole in the law that allowed a container to be defacto 'foreign soil' and so pass through these borders inviolate. That's right. Only the various departments of state and ministries and whatnot are technically exempt from this activity. In ANY nation.
All governments therefore have the right to surveil your electronic storage media, paper documents, perform cavity searches, and whatnot. It's just that most of them don't. And historically they don't because they want the commerce, tourist trade, etc.
I recall an FBI security briefing in the 1980's that commented that defense executives visiting France were being actively targeted by the French secret service, to the point that a few of them had fallen to 'honey traps' (baited with une belle femme) and had the contents of their laptops, floppy disks, documents, etc. copied while they were *cough* otherwise engaged. I was encouraged to double encrypt all data that I carried with me as it was subject to inspection and copying at any and all borders that I would pass through.
Fortunately I don't work in that industry any more, so I don't care that my annual budget spreadsheet or snippets of code can be copied by the Forces of Darkness. It'd confuse them just as much as it confuses everyone else who sees it.
There was an article just a couple days ago on here about a case where a Federal Magistrate held that a password was protected.
In my opinion, it was sound reasoning. The court said that the Fifth Amendment applies only to testimony. By giving the password, the defendant would in effect be testifying (1) that he had the password and (2) that he had access to the content protected by the password. Both of those admissions could be incriminating, so the government could not force him to reveal it.
That was just a ruling from a lower court though. It is not a precedent that any other court has to follow (though they may find it persuasive, as I do). We can't predict how other courts will rule.
pi = 2*|arg(God)|
I've always felt that Customs agents were considerably more frightening that real police. They can certainly do any number of things on a whim that a cop would never consider. Well, outside of The Shield anyhow.
There are more and more people, myself included, that wind up avoiding traveling to the U.S. From outside of your borders it looks as if I need to worry not just about routine customs abuse like having my car torn apart, but also being shipped to Syria for torture, and now having sensitive data pulled off of my laptop.
And again, in the present climate it can be hard to know what data Homeland Security might see as abridging "National Security" even if it's legal in my own country.
Three Squirrels
Flash drive mule.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Want to fight back? Buy a cheap laptop off eBay and fill it with the most dangerous viruses and trojans you can find. If you don't know how to do that just visit a lot of Russian porn sites without patches or a firewall.
The irony with such tactics is that it will discourage businesses taking in their computers to the country and in many cases just mean that the important will be left online, using secure connections. European countries already distrust the USA over spying on corporate data, I doubt this is going to help the situation.
As if we really needed another method of damaging our economy.
I can't wait until the destroyer of nations leaves the office.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Its one thing to know that a customs agent (of any country) might see your company's trade secrets as you may be able to convince yourself that the trade secrets are sufficiently complex no agent will be able to remember enough to do harm (although they might be able to take some insider trading profits from simple knowledge such as relates to M&As).
Its quite another to know that a customs agent might seize and retain complete copies of your company's trade secrets. Particularly if you remember that US CBP's legal justifications for such searchs (now extended to seizures) are exactly the same as the legal justifications most other countries use for their equivalent agency. There are more than a few countries who are political friends of the US while still engaging in massive industrial espionage to the point of having been caught using their own government's agents to do so.
Not to put to fine a point on it, but if you're Boeing can you ever again risk letting one of your employees carry either a laptop or physical documents when traveling to Europe? Or if you're a pharmaceutical company can you ever again risk letting one of your employess carry either a laptop or physical documents when traveling to India or a South American company? Yeah, didn't think so.
Keep your pr0n, browser (firefox -profile), vlc, in a hidden TrueCrypt volume. Let them search like idiots. Give them the password to the bogus volume when they force you into it.
Hell, TrueCrypt 5.0 is out, and it even runs on OSX now.
Thanks
Under what jurisdiction are these detention centers? I assume that, since you can be held without trial, access to an attorney, etc. without even having been accused of a crime (because if you are accused then they can just let you in and arrest you on the spot), the detention center must be somewhere outside of US jurisdiction in order for them to be able to strip you of rights that the Constitution and various laws and court cases forbid them to strip from you...
Something doesn't smell right about all of that.
The way I see it, there should be 2 choices: 1.) you are accused of committing a crime, they let you in, you are arrested, and then you get your day in court, or 2.) you are not accused of a crime so they let you and in and you are free to go. There really shouldn't be any middle ground there, if you are US citizen returning to the country.
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
"You'll get my data, when you pry it from my cold dead hands!"
-Ours is the wisdom of Solomon, the magic of Merlyn, the fall of Icaris.
Isn't this how the great library at Alexandria was created? They had a tax on all books brought through the port that required the owners to let local scribes make a copy. Finally, a positive-spin comparison between the current administration and the Ptolemaic dynasty of ancient Egypt. If it was good enough for the third century B.C., it's good enough for today.
When I was growing up in the 1960s, we were taught the US was the freeset country in the World.
Now apparently the standard is "We are not as bad as Iran"
Proof that if you lower your standards enough, anything can be made to look acceptable
If your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd murder you in your sleep
Because "we the people" not just let it — we demand it to, and vote out people, who are opposed to it...
When the Federal Income Tax was first introduced in 1864, it was only 3%. We are now boiled up 35% (having touched 88% in 1942) and you don't seem to scream.
So, pardon me, if I don't object to Customs Agents copying (not "confiscating") data for examination too much — they've been searching through travelers' material possessions since their "service" was introduced...
We are now facing a very real danger of Ms. Clinton getting elected — because, as analysts say, of support for her among single women, who "desperately need" the "schools, mass transit, childcare", that she promises to deliver them. What those analysts — and everyone else — omit, is that those women want all of these benefits "for free", or, as we know, at somebody else's expense.
In other words, don't accuse the government — it just follows the people's wishes...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
The first thing I'd do while smuggling data INTO the US would be to let it go through customs. There's no way I'd GET IT OVER THE INTERNET while I'm already here.
Terrorism is the new Communism, it's a free ticket for the government to break the law. I am not scared of terrorists, there's a much greater chance that I'll be killed by heart disease.
When fingerprinting of all visitors was introduced - I decided that I won't visit US as long as you guys keep doing this to me.
I have politely declined to visit two conferences in the US when invited by my employer.
And I really don't have any second thoughts about not visiting US when I read about this.
If you aren't in the country, then Customs should have no jurisdiction either, as agents of the US Gov't.
Well, you know, they're just trying to keep us good citizens safe from outsiders bringing terrorist acts to our nation. Our borders must be secure.
... terrorists are people ... people need food, clothing, shelter ... I've got it! Since terrorists must live somewhere, we should be able to search anywhere that people live. Don't we have the right to know for sure that our neighbors aren't planning to drive a truck full of explosives into a crowded shopping mall? (Oh, yeah, I forgot shopping malls, them too.)
... really drive the message home that every citizen is a security officer ... get people pay attention to every little detail, and report things they think might be suspicious.
Of course, there might be one or two that slip through, or people already inside the borders who begin terrorist activities. We should probably do this same kind of thing at state borders, too.
And the big cities. I mean, New York has already been attacked. Chicago has the tallest building in the nation. And there are plenty of huge metropolitan areas that could be ripe targets. We should make sure that our big cities are safe.
Speaking of buildings, we should probably also conduct these searches whenever someone is entering a large building. That would certainly relieve the fears of the people who have to work in (or near!) high-rises every day.
But you don't have to enter a building to do something bad. Just being out on the street, you could have some kind of chemical or biological weapon, or a dirty bomb. (Remember Jose Padilla? We're lucky we caught him.) The police should be able to search public spaces, including the people in them, at their will. Really, you're in a public place, you should expect to be inspected.
Okay, we've got all that covered, but that's all defensive. If we really want to rid this world of the threat of terrorism, we need to go to the source. Let's see
That's going to take a lot of resources. A lot of people. We'd have to really get the citizenry on board here
Not everyone can keep that up, though. I mean, we're people! We have jobs and families! We shouldn't have to bear the burden of constant vigilance; if everyone has to give up their regular lives in order to become a police officer, the terrorists have won!
We live in an age of technology! We can develop a giant database, and fill that database with information collected by audio and video recording equipment. We can install that surveillance equipment in all those places above I've demonstrated that terrorists can be found, have them all feed into the database.
National borders, state lines, cities, public buildings, city streets, shopping malls, private homes.
In all seriousness: I would much rather live in fear of terrorism than in fear of my own government's attempts to prevent it.
Web 2.0 == Giant Blogspam Circle Jerk
Is the US government actually saying that copying files from one device to another is the same as looking through suitcases?
Then, in that aspect the whole argument of the RIAA that 'copying cds is illegal' is debunked by the US government.
You could easily say the following: 'Copying CDs is the same as looking at them in a store' and get away with it.
80 CC D8 AF AE D3 AB 54 B7 2E CE 67 C7
I'm just waiting for someone to slap them with a copyright violation after they copy the computer data. All it would take is something simple like a simple text document of a manuscript. I may have missed the memo on it, but I don't recall an exemption for government agencies in regards to IP violations.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0362227/
See, this is one of many places the use of "developing" as a euphemism for "less-developed" falls apart. Even if, in the general case, it were reasonable to describe most less-developed countries as "developing" (that is, approaching the level of development in the more advanced countries), it clearly isn't a good way to describe the regress of the most developed country of the world.
(And, really, "developing" isn't a good description for LDCs in the general case, either; while some are narrowing the gap the the most advanced countries, very many are developing, if at all, more slowly than the most advanced countries and falling farther behind; calling them "developing" countries is a misleading euphemism that obscures the real conditions.)
When leaving abroad don't bring any data with you that could be inspected upon your return.
Any new data you acquire abroad should be uploaded via the Internet. Set up a server at home and only open one random port to SSH via a firewall with a port forwarding feature. Use sftp to upload your data that you don't want inspected before travelling back home.
Now wasn't that easy . . . (and completely legal). No games played, no headaches and no fear.
-- Mean People Suck
get taken over by the Geek Squad?
OK, so what about having NDAed documentation that you've agreed not to share with anyone? For example, nonpublic specs for CPUs, graphics chips, etc. that you're using in a system design, and you take work with you for something to do on a plane to visit a supplier or manufacturer or something like that? Look up the BGA pattern as a refresher to talk about metal spacing, via sizing etc with a PCB fab, but you've signed an NDA to keep the document including that PGA spec secret? What is the procedure for that kind of thing? PGP such files? FileVault them on OSX, though after logging in those files can then be copied...
How does this behaviour interact with data-privacy statutes, such as HIPAA? For example, imagine you're a doctor carrying a laptop with patient data on it. Now you have a responsibility to protect that data and only transfer it to appropriately authorised bodies, with your patients consent. Are the border agencies acceptable bodies? What about if you're, say, a UK doctor entering the US? Wouldn't the Data Protection Act be violated?
Any lawyer wannabes care to chime in?
I don't know which I find more disturbing.
Them wanting to search my iPod, or the thinking that the bad guys would need to deliver digital data in person.
How long are these agents going to hold the information for? Indefinitely, I'd suspect. Just throw it into the Big Blue over there at Langely.
Furthermore, I'd like to comment on the overall direction we are headed. We as citizens have a right and a duty to overthrow our government when our government no longer suits us. Government is for us, we made it! So overthrow it! Stop paying your taxes and start yelling on street corners. Nobody is going to stop the corrupt politicians but you, so run for an office if that suits you. Nobody is going get out the message that we need change, NO, not just change in Iraq war and small changes that our current presidential candidates are proposing - BIG CHANGES. We here at slashdot have been following the story of decline in privacy, freedom and liberty for how many years now? Accept that no matter what your job title is, no matter what your paycheck is, no matter how fat or skinny or unconfident in your whatever-abilities - you have to start fixing this problem.
You choose your own level of involvement.
If you want this fixed, do it. Every single one of us has the ability to become an international leader for change, justice and peace. Don't be afraid of quitting your job, you will be provided for. Don't be afraid of selling your house, you will be provided for. Do whatever you possibly can for the causes you believe in, and nothing else.
Nobody else is going to do it.
I'm surprised to see that this is apparently true. Crazy stuff.
Is there heaven? Is there Hell? Is that a Tuna Melt I smell?-Primus
How is that flamebait? This isn't just searching for contraband, this is looking back through web history files, email and sensitive "thought data" without bothering with either probable cause or a warrant. Any reasonable person has a right to resent this type of intrusion, not to mention confiscating expensive equipment without due process.
More frightening than the act itself is the attitude of creeping intrusiveness justified by people who went through the American educational system. I don't think anyone in the history of the world imagined themselves being part of an emerging police state. In almost every instance it was a gradual process where the principles were acting on some type of perceived imperative. The people involved believed they were justified. The GRU, the Stasi, the SS and a thousand organizations like them started with a social imperative.
Don't think we'll ever be that bad? If there are no checks and balances, no oversight and no way to challenge over-reaching policy what's stopping us from getting there? There has to be a line even for terrorism. This far and no farther. Instead we keep kicking that can farther down the road.
It's not the actual policy. It's not this little thing or that little thing, it's the attitude that the ends justify the means underlying each little step.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Can they copy cellphone contacts ? That is a private, and sometimes valuable, information !
Also, can they copy data I have the copyright on ?
I am a programmer, I sometimes carry source code with me, supposing I didn't encrypt them, could they copy it ? Knowing that my job contract makes me responsible in case I provide valuable company IP to someone without authorization, am I liable for this ?
If there is an old copy of the anarchist cookbook on my hard drive (hey, I've been young and silly once upon a time!), can I be charged with terrorism ?
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
So when a bunch of 1s and 0s that comprise an MP3 are copied, there is no theft; yet somehow when a border agent copies some bits the data is somehow considered confiscated? Invasion of privacy, sure, but how is the owner deprived of their data?
Bad headline...
One way to inhibit this unconstitutional search & seizure activity would be to make it very, very costly. Could I install a folder full of cybernastiness on my laptop such that when the customs droids "borrow" it for inspection, various viruses get installed on their systems? Is it possible to craft a wipe-disk exe that would take down their system if it was copied from my laptop?
How the hell are these jackasses going to have the resources? And what are they going to do if they find something they don't like? Some time ago on a trip from the US to Canada a Canadian agent asked me to search my hard drive for all media (I think he was looking for child porn). I complied, but it felt very funny, plus there are so many ways to hide things. Are they going to frisk and cavity search me to copy every USB key? And what if I just put the data on a server before crossing to download after? What a hassle and waste of resources; there's no way to plug the holes.
.
10th amendment:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people..
Granted, this amendment has not held up in court, but that just furthers the sad state of affairs and shows us how little those words mean to those in power...
.
P.S. IHMO, those who say that things are bad, but not as bad as other countries just tells me that we have lost to the terrorists.... I mean after all, their goal was to change our way of life and show us that we did not have the freedoms that we claimed we had....
It is apparent (to me) that they were right....
.
Dons an asbestos shield painted like the flag!!!
What a great time for us to make sure those running for office know that we're not voting for anyone who won't make reversing all this fascist crap a top priority!
Well, the 2nd Amendment is really your last stand for protecting a password...
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
As good as Canada? You would need to increase your taxes significantly! The greedy rich elite will never let that happen. The rest will be too stupid to unionize and demand progressive change... gotta love ignorant media controlled masses...
I don't usually reply to my own posts, but I just wanted to add that I think way too much sensitive information is carried around on laptops already. I'm especially appalled whenever I hear of laptop thefts from accountants, insurers, health professionals, and the like, who are carrying around hundreds or even thousands of personal records oftentimes indexed by SSN. Get rid of the SSN's, put the data on secure storage, and access it over encrypted channels. Don't carry around my tax or medical records on your laptop.
It's not the same as taking paper documents, but it is roughly equivalent to making photocopies of all of my paper documents. Which is a complete violation of privacy. What if I have all the plans and ideas for my next invention, that I haven't patented yet? What if the security clerk is actually a technical person, realizes what they are looking at, and steals my idea? Do I have any recourse?
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
The government is a bully who says "deal with it" knowing no one will do a thing.
I'm not an American and I don't live in the US anymore but I do keep an eye on what's happening. My satellite TV is good enough to bring me "FSTV" (Free Speech TV, if you have DishNetwork its there around 9000) Last night they ran the amazing film "America: Freedom to Fascism" by Director Aaron Russo. It knocked me over and even though much of the info was not new to me the way he put it together really put a punch in it. http://www.freedomtofascism.com/ or find it on torrent. Ron Paul does a pretty good interview about the Federal Reserve.
What possibly could be a threat in data that Customs needs to confiscate it? Are Customs being used to provide data to the government? Are Customs being used to provide information for American companies? Are Customs being used just to get Americans accustomed to the idea that they have nothing private?
Sorry, but snopes says no.
(FWIW, I agree with your point.)
So, you illegally try to enter the country and we give you back all your stuff? Maybe it would be a dis-incentive if the computers and iPods were kept rather than just copied. And I'm only half-kidding.
http://www.truecrypt.org/
Also record their badge numbers, names and ranks. Their work locations and another other information such as what they said. Document, document. Then communicate your interactions with the puppets of Big Brother State Power, the officers and other agents of State Terrorism in action against 99.999999999% of people who are NOT terrorists. By communicating each incident in detail the terrorism of State Power can be revealed and potentially checked (limited).
So if the US Customs agents make copies of all my MP3s, isn't that "stealing" the music, as defined by the RIAA? Are they going to end up paying $7,000 per song they have copied when they are brought to court??
"But this one goes to 11!"
Statelessness is an interesting phenomenon. Apparently there are UN conventions on preventing people from becoming stateless such that those who are signatories have to grant alien and/or refugee status to those who would otherwise be in limbo.
Also, most people have probably heard this but if you're interested, Tom Hanks was in a movie called The Terminal that was basically a film about this guy with some liberties taken.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
I know this can't help the citizens of the USA, but for people in the rest of the world if we don't like the way the USA treats us we could stop doing business with them, or more practically start putting the mechanisms in place so we don't have to deal with them. It would not take much to force a change. from my point of view the USA is positioning itself very close to how England was before the yanks got mad and spoiled all there tea. i.e. taking in resources and then selling them back to the country that they came from at a profit. The point of this is they are vulnerable if we start selling our resources to other countries.
To sum up what I am saying is if you don't like it don't put up with it we are enabling this sort of behaviour by continuing on as normal and that does no one any favours
/ I like the people of USA, just not there government, actually I don't like my own government ether
> Who would go to the trouble of transporting data on physical media, when it can be transmitted over the internet?
They're already spying on all of that, remember? Giant wiretap on everything? And given how much they talked about "terrorist chatter" right after 9-11, I'd hazard a guess that one of the things it does is to keep counts of how many times certain suspect words and phrases show up.
Good thing I have no data worth stealing, but don't think for a second that I'm trying to excuse this idiotic policy.
... to image copy one hard drive in a year?
Sheesh! These guys must be totally incompetent idiots if they can't make a copy of a hard drive within a day, and return the laptop. If they think the owner might use that data to commit a future crime, then keep the hard drive and return the rest of the laptop. If they think the owner might commit a crime even without the data, then arrest the owner. Just keeping laptops makes no sense.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
... but who wants to go the US anymore anyway? Is your respective home country not interesting enough? Do you REALLY want to spend time with obese plebians rolling down the queues at Disney Land THAT much? Is seeing the Statue of Liberty THAT important? You can do both of those in Paris, by the way. Plus, see some of the finest works of art in the world. I have no reason to ever go back to America, and I most likely never will. You can thank George W."Knee-Jerk" Bush and his entourage of corporate sponsors and Yes-Men for that. I sincerely hope a lot of people feel the same way. No chance of a trade embargo against the US until it's a little more democratic and forward thinking, though. Maybe you guys should cut off some people's heads? I here that gets attention much better than any whinge-bag online petition.
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
Load the thing with MyDoom et. al., and every bit of spyware/adware you can possibly put on a completely unprotected Windows PC.
When they ask you for the PC, just hand it over and say "Copy away, boys!"
So basically, there is a great amount of harm being done to ordinary citizens, and valued guests of our country in the pursuit of deterring terrorism and uncovering crimes? The positions stated seem quite reasonable to me and I believe that harm is being done to these people. This is not just an inconvenience to a traveler, but the risk of actual harm to persons and businesses. One could argue the kid being arrested is just hyperbole, but attorney-client privilege, trade secrets, and Journalists sources are pretty damned important to protect. Is US Customs being held to the same level of accountability and standards that US Courts are held too? Since the last time I checked those 3 examples are all protected, even in a court.
Uh huh. About as well trained as the members of the Geek Squad that were caught? The medical staff that disclosed George Clooney's Records? The fantastic individuals that lost whole hard drives full of sensitive data from Los Alamos? The trained individuals responsible for the inordinate number of complaints against of them on yearly basis? Much easier said then done. Unless that comes with PRISON TIME as a consequence for failure, I won't believe these "trained" customs officers WON'T be making copies of naughty pictures, MP3's, etc.
Whether or not you buy the argument that a laptop can be similar to a suitcase, in that they are both containers for unique items equally subject to search, computer files can reveal our deepest secrets, private thoughts, ideals, political motivations, and religious beliefs. Depending on the person, it can be like reading a very private diary, or a sterile perusal of a inane content found in most public libraries, the determination of which can only be made after the violation of privacy.
Interesting point and quite true. ONLY at the BORDER would this right be effectively suspended for US citizens, and of course no rights, courtesies, or dignities extended to foreign guests. To gain access to the US, one would have lay prostrate with no rights whatsoever, subject to whims of the well trained guardians.
I of course I am interested in how long it will take for the legal interpretation to be applied inside the border for law enforcement to apply to any search of a person. When entering City Hall or any other City building subject you to these same security measures? After all, all progress can seen as incremental...
Damn, I really, really, hope that's just my tinfoil hat talking.
Obligatory Soundbite Catchphrase
It says people, not citizens. So pretending you can do this willy nilly to people from others countries does not fly. They are saying this can be applied to any person by extension, citizen or non-citizen.
I didn't RTFA, but I've heard a lot of buzz about this issue.
I understand wanting to control the export of data, but how could bringing data into the country possible be a security (or otherwise) risk? It's not like fruit or animals, which do pose an ecological risk. What exactly are they looking for? Did the RIAA/MPAA put them up to this?
The government could scan a bazillion laptops and still miss the terrorist communications occurring on the internet, in secret code, encrypted, and embedded in other files, or on CDs sent through the mail. And even then, I'm at a loss for what data could possibly pose a threat to the country.
The supposed terrorists aren't just going to send Osama bin Laden to Ellis Island with his Outlook Contacts Folder unencrypted.
This is about as helpful to the country as electronic voting and bill of rights toiler paper.
Move all sig!
Customs inspections began during the administration of GEORGE WASHINGTON, 1789 to be exact. It was the FIFTH act of Congress. You might think they all had a pretty accurate inkling of the intentions of the framers at that juncture.
I believe US law allows the government to monitor and record data of anyone (citizens or non-citizens) that happen to go through the Internet Exchanges in the US and the data does not have to originate or terminate in the US.
Encrypt everything. Send it back and forth to your home across the internet already encrypted. When the border guards ask you for your papers, present the Nazi pigs a nice clean system.
Face it guys, we have to study how the french did it in WWII and update it for the 21st century. The Nazi party didn't die, it took hold in the U.S.A. and has been slowly asserting itself.
We have to present evidence anonymously because even though we may have freedom of speech, we have to watch out for trade secrets, copyright infringement, and the lawyers. Blow the whistle and lose your home and livelihood, no jail time, nope, just homelessness and poverty. So, they can destroy you without even making you a martyr.
This "game" should not even be played in the United States of America. The fact that you feel the need to hide that which need not be hidden is a true metric of just how far the U.S. has gone down the wrong road.
If the U.S. government was a spouse, the entire world would be telling us to get a divorce on the grounds of an abusive relationship.
that is why I store all sensitive data on a flash drive that I hide in my shoe
PS I am kidding
I recommend: 1)Booting to a desktop with a picture of yourself in tighty whities waving to the camera. That should get you on your way fast. 2)Install sound theme (max volume settings) with such classics as "I love it when you touch me there!" and "You don't want to do that, Dave." 3)Use 98 but ensure that it blue screens when they want to do anything, reply to this post with your suggestions on how we might do this. 4)Obscure distros, the more obscure the better 5)Boots to a command line 6)Windows loads to Norton battling AVG battling McAfee in which one can pop up more virus warnings. Your welcome.
Easy to avoid ...
Just shrinkwrap your laptop and put a note on it:
READ CAREFULLY. By removing the wrapping of this object you agree, on behalf of your employer, that you will not copy the data found on this device in any form or by any means blablabla, nor that you will inspect said data in more detail than to confirm that it is indeed data blablabla ... Furthermore, you owe the owner of the object 120 USD to replace this shrinkwrap (+ administrative costs) ... and a smile too.
All internet activity is logged, scanned for keywords and analysed first by a computer and then if necessary a human monitor.
Overheard at the airport:
Johnny Mnemonic: No dice?
Homeland Security: No. But I can get it out
Johnny Mnemonic: How?
Homeland Security: A general anesthetic, a cranial drill and a pair of forceps.
Johnny Mnemonic: I could die, right?
Homeland Security: It's gonna kill you anyway.If I take it out, you'll probably survive but lose some fine motor skills.You might not remember anything for more than three minutes.
âoeWho knew something as harmless as willful ignorance could end up having real consequences?â
So if I use a fancy digital camcorder to record some very "private" vacation movies with the girlfriend or wife. Then TSA has a right to not only watch it, but keep a copy?
Seriously wtf? This is not right on so many levels.
Wrong: Richard Nixon, 1969. Its been that long ...
Look at the figures and weep. The US, on a per capita basis, beats everyone else.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_pri_per_cap-crime-prisoners-per-capita
The neighbours to the north and south manage to be MUCH lower ... feeling oppressed yet?
Kevin Smith on Prince
Now people say "Well it's better than living in Iraq", or Rwanda etc. (though I think Rwanda has better cell coverage)
Americans, you have lost your aspirations.
Want some goals to aspire to?
Perceived corruption http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781359.html USA ranks 20th.
Press freedom http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=824) US ranks 31st.
Privacy http://www.privacyinternational.org/article.shtml?cmd%5B347%5D=x-347-559597 , got beaten by Philipines.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
They are copying data from mp3 players? Call in the RIAA!! The Feds are running a darknet!
Man is the lowest-cost, 150-pound, nonlinear, all-purpose computer system which can be mass-produced by unskilled labor.
They did not force anyone to do anything and, moreover, the program in question was only looking at native Icelanders. Adding a non-native to that database would not only be pointless, it would defeat the purpose entirely.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1217842,00.html
My father is a Customs and Border Protection inspector at the Canadian border. As I understand it, if you are a US citizen living in the US they cannot refuse you unless there are exceptional circumstances- things like a huge bag of explosives, drugs, or smuggling of persons. In most of these cases you would be arrested.
Canadian persons with felony convictions are not normally allowed in, and vice versa. If you're a US felon you aren't going to be allowed elsewhere unless the other country is very lax or other circumstances (French Foreign Legion for example).
I may be missing an obscure loophole (like the movie Terminal), but in no circumstances should you be caught between countries with nowhere to go. Your citizenship country should always take you back, no matter who you are, and if you are into illegal activities you will be accepted somewhere and placed in jail.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
Then you've made it wrong and the voices are still getting through.
I recommend another layer of foil.
Just do what I do: plaster images of goatse, lemonparty, etc all over your computer. Background images, screen savers, mouse cursors, inline attachments in all your emails, embedded pictures in all your documents, default browser home pages, customized application splash-screens, etc. The funny thing is that I don't even travel through customs!
Well this is a bad thing, but I was also thinking that this could work in our favor....to some extent.
U know those corrupt politicians and those making the law, well if they ever decide to take a vacation outside of the country and take their laptops with them well under this law we should be able to search them. Like when the President goes on tours to different countries, when gets back we can search the laptops of anyone with the administration.
According to this we should have the right to search anyone, politicians included.
Let's say that I have a medical image of a human subject on my laptop. The main point of HIPAA is that personal helath information (PHI) be held secret. Breaking confidentiality has a $10k price tag. So I customs says they have the right to copy, can they be sued for $10k per infringing image X number of times it is copied (perhaps even copied into RAM). What about access controls? Do we get to know who looked at our data?
Poetic justice; the word for this is "copies"!
Can you not call ahead and get the laptop pre-cleared?
I would think the bigger hazard would be the poor guy who bumped against your laptop before clearing security. He wouldn't be able to explain himself at all.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I will have to remember that. Take my disks with me, but NOT ONLY WIPE them, deSTROY them. Keep my good data for use over the border, then wipe, destroy, and discard the disk. Or, mechanically smash it and dangle it in their fucking faces.
Just be sure to keep a live boot Linux disk for the time you'll be sitting in the terminals on the way back.
But, then I suppose they'll presume the live boot is custom with SOME of the data kept before the main hard drive was destroyed.
Time to learn Chinese or Japanese or Korean and move there, I suppose. As long as I'm not a criminal, a country is a country. I am a being, born into a place not of my choosing. Life is short. NO ONE OWES allegiance to SHIT unless they personally ascribe to it. People should be able to live and work where ever a government/country conceivably could accommodate as long as the applicant has a clean record, learns the local language, contributes, and a few other things. Too bad governments and wealthy stage this conflict to "shake out the cobwebs", which often translates into imperialism, use of citizens as fodder/troops of invasion, and other things.
Maybe it would be interesting if businesses having to leave their laptops at home on business to the US would find some way to punish the US for dicking with the citizenry. Smart criminals would just encrypt their data multiple times and import it over the web, or have it come in on a freight truck that is NOT going to be quarantined for weeks while various US agencies sift and pore over data in some goddamn easter egg hug.
Copying data at the border is just to reinforce that the slippery slope is slipper SLOP that we have been feed by IV, not by spoon. And will CONTINUE to be IV-fed, or we will be "disconnected from life support"...
Another possibility is to reduce the data to encrypted images (steg?, QRC codes? blobs?) and bind them as documents. Or, maybe we can just ask for diplomatic immunity by taking on freelance work or some other government for travel duration purposes...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
This product: SuperStick does not trigger the metal detector. It stores 4GB of data that can be encrypted with TrueCrypt.
So if you're smuggling data the safest way to get it across the US border is to take a few of these and insert them in your 5Kg bricks of cocaine or bales of weed. They'll be fine.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
1. Get a mac. ;-)
2. Assign a password to the root account.
3. Set up at least two limited user accounts
4. Change login screen to show blank fields for username and password
5. Enable File Vault for your preferred account
6. Throw a couple of unimportant files on the desktop and change the background image to a pic of your familty, significant other etc. of the dummy account
7. Boot all of the programs in your dummy account to make sure you don't get any registration screens etc.
8. Install Firefox and set it to clear out your history / cache etc when you quit.
9. If you want to cover the online email issue set up a generic account with a free service provider, then sign up for junk mail from a couple of websites.
If I can figure this out, I'm sure the terrorists can too!
If I decide to spend my vacation in the USA, I face the risk of...
...having my credit card record scrutinized
...having my luggage broken into
...being sent back with a returning flight, at my expense
...ending up in a secret database of potential terrorists
...having my fingerprints taken
...being scanned in other ways for some secret biometric database
...having my laptop copied, its contents "searched"
...having a finger thrust into where my food usually exits my body
All this, for my own "security". I have visited the USSR. Not even they could offer this much "security".
See also http://pi.gn.apc.org/article.shtml?cmd%5B347%5D=x-347-559597
I think Orson Welles once said that "The work of the police is only easy in a police state."
As a voyeur, I'll apply for a job as customs agent. Imagine all those vacation pictures to nude beaches and other private pictures!
captcha: archival
Add (C) to all your personal data then sue them under the DMCA for illegally copying copyrighted material...... ...well I can dream can't I?
P.S. IHMO, those who say that things are bad, but not as bad as other countries just tells me that we have lost to the terrorists.... I mean after all, their goal was to change our way of life and show us that we did not have the freedoms that we claimed we had....
It is apparent (to me) that they were right....
+1, Terrorist.
That's the last time I courier sensitive terrorist data over the border via laptop. If only there was a way to send this data electronically...
When inspectors look in your suitcase they can (presumably) take all the time they need/want, but when its done, unless they are specifically confiscating something, you walk away with your suitcase and all your contents intact.
When inspectors look into your hard drive, cell phone or other electronic device, its the same thing-- UNTIL they copy it-- and then its not the same.
They can THEN use that data at their leisure, for as long as they like and however they like, and combine it, shape it, roll it and smoke it into any form they want forever afterwards. They can't do that with your suitcase.
That's the difference. You just can't do that kind of thing in the United States...
of Nazi Germany...???
Oh right then, Carry on.
In many cases though, it seems that becoming "as good as Canada" in many senses entails bringing Canada down by instituting US-style copyright laws, etc.
Animal Farm tells this story pretty well, I think.
Gordon.He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.
-- J.R.R. Tolkien
FreeBSD offers full-disk encryption using the GEOM ELI framework.
The 2 factor component: something you have, something you know.
Something you have: CD-Rom ISO image or USB key with the bootstrap information and the encryption key on it. (Hell, for crossing the border, I'd keep the ISO image located on my corporate VPN and download it AFTER I had passed customs).
Something you know: password.
Otherwise, you boot it up and...nothing...a hard drive filled with garbage.
I'd just say, "FSCK! My hard drive just died!"
Who is to say anything different?
Vote with your feet/wallet.
Don't visit or buy goods and services from a country whose policies you disagree with.
If it can work at the retail level, why not at a national level?
Then again, this requires people to look for alternatives. If only there was a local version of Alienware...
The nose doesn't cause the tail.
suffice? (other than to rhyme?)
Slowing wracking the brain in reverse in a vice until the skull pops is just as effective (and faster) than boiling a frog... in hot water.
We could boil it in syrup, and make it a sweet departure...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
with them making copies and seizing data , they (the gov) could be opening pandoras box , just think of all the trojan, virus , worm , spyware writers out their that always wanted to get into their systems, now they can do so without the need to get through any kind of security measures.
so there really is a premise for Johnny Mnemonic then... data smuggler...
currently, you could bring your data in on SD cards wrapped in cling-film and jammed up your jacksey...
I'd like to see them try and do that type of search without probable cause...
"oh yeah... we caught him in customs with 40 SD cards of HQ ripped movies stuffed up his backside... tough guy, was 20 hours before he had a motion, and then we had the evidence..."
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
would be what it takes to shift the world banking systems and major stock systems OUT of the US to Shanghai or Europe.
It would be an interesting thing to see bung-holed US foreign policy (and domestic policy) screw up the US power position. We won't have to worry about sub-prime lending market woes. Just enslave the US to the rest of the world by deepening investment but moving the movers and shakers to places like Switzerland, Dubai, Hong Kong, Shanghai, and so on.
It seems of recent :
Prince Andrew rebukes America over Iraq - Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/05/nandrew105.xml
I wonder if the UK has any royals or officials who can warn the US about over-spying on domestics.
(I no longer submit to the slash firehose....)
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Well, it won't be long before we travel and find the US-Customs trojaning our rigs with the USB-Bundestrojaner in our lap(tops). Even if you flash (drive) you di(s)ks, you will still be asked to unsheathe your (p)assword and boots and straps you log in.
Talk about the US government made of domestic and domesticated hingeladers (hind-loaders).
(Wow, I could not find in Google: Hingelader, hingelader hind loader, or German hind loader in a attempt to find the correct spelling of her hingelader)
Oh, make sure you disable all device ports in your kernel when you travel. Set a fake DES or wipe routine in motion. Make the bun-loaders think you are hiding something. Tell them its your home-made porn you copyrighted in an NDA with a foreign government that will take a dim view of its confidentiality being breached...)
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Have it play the Apple 1984 commercial.
Or maybe a speech by Adolf Hitler.
encryption of certain ages or types?
If you travel and do so for work or personal reasons and take the wrong encryption into China, the US will federally punish you if it finds out upon your return to the US.
China would probably punish you IF they had cause to single out YOUR laptop for inspection upon ENTRY. If you return to the US TOO SOON, it might sideline you into a secondary inspection and then determine you had some strong encryption tools you illegally "exported".
I don't know whether a partition merely encrypted constitutes export of tools, but I have to assume that for the partition to accept new or display existing data some back-and-forth encryption and decryption is going on, and so might any government.
This is just NOT a pretty picture. I can imagine a few people being turned into the TrueCrypt versions of Bobby Fischer. Wanted for exportation, banned FOR life from playing WITH electronics... Or banned FROM life for playing WITH electronics.
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
On that ALONE the government (via it's own geeks and attorneys) would nail ANYbody following that advice. At least, in my mind, the government prosecutors would claim premeditation to defeat, test, tamper with and attempt to nullify homeland security.
It's just a matter of time before we are -- strike that --this becomes -- a condomnable nation.
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
The problem for me, as someone who will probably be travelling from Europe to the US for work in the next few years, is that I can very easily win at keeping my data deniable and secure using stuff like Truecrypt.
However, they can very easily win at destroying my life. Even if they just denied me entry and shipped me back home, my employers would find out, and I'd be considered a travel risk. Thats what really bugs me.
better hope that mule up yer ass goes away by ass-immo-lation... Don't forget preparation H...
KY Jelly (in personal amounts) is permitted in carry-on luggage by the TSA. So, at least THEY won't border or make it "custom" to be on the periphery of parts of yer ass... Don't forget the digital Scabine or Kwell cream after handing over yer machine.... don't want any "bugaboos" dropping in on yer ass...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Many may think this is to do with national security or the encroachment of individual privacy but the reality is a bit more under handed. Right now the USA is facing a massive amount of international trade competition and "information" is big money. I will give you an example, the USA is looking at tendering for a multi billions dollar wheat contract with Kuwait but doesn't know what other countries are doing (kick backs, brown bags etc). So when a company official from a competing country comes in to the USA they may or may not have data on their phone or laptop regarding wheat contracts. You can bet your kids that customs are going to be instructed through shadowy channels to get a copy of that information one way or the other. The French and English are masters of this type of corporate espionage, but as we can see the USA are very ham fisted and obvious Company officials from large international resources companies are now well versed in security (if they are not they will soon go broke) and do take very extreme measures now to keep all dealing hidden.
Ways to have fun with this:
;) and a flashing "You're a felon!" message. (Or whatever) - bonus points for coding an application that does all that PLUS takes pictures of the user via the laptop's built in webcam... =D
/dev/random or other sources, so they have to waste their time copying and investigating a ton of junk. Leave the files in 'obvious' places with file names that would want to make you check them out but convey a sense that you will need some special process or application to investigate them. ("Hmm, it's named .ISO, but it won't mount on a virtual drive... Guess I'll have to try to burn it." or "What the hell is a .XYZZY file?" =)
/dev/random or copies of the various US legal documents), dozens deep, with both common and obscure compression formats. (Mix them up, and be sure to 'accidentally' change the extension on a few.)
Install Linux - to do anything, they'll have to go get the one guy who knows Linux, if they even have one.
Have an "EULA" style agreement pop up when the computer boots, with the only options being "Agree" or "Shut down" - have the text of the "EULA" be the Bill of Rights, relevant court rulings, etc.
Put a directory on the desktop named "Private - Confidential" - have a bunch of nested directories beneath it, each one conveying a sense of increasing security, and hinting at severe punishments for violators. Have the last "directory" really be a file with the icon changed so it just looks like a directory, the file name could be something like "If you're actually taking the time to read this, you have no business looking in here and are about to commit a (felony/whatever)" - the file could even be a flash file with really obnoxiously loud music (so you can hear it from the next room over
Get the largest laptop hard drive you can and fill it to the brim with various sized files created from
Nest compressed password-protected files (containing
- the fun stops here -
Or, tell them "No," they may NOT look at the files on your laptop, though you'll be more than happy to turn it on or open it up to prove it's not a bomb. If they insist, ask them, if there were a diary in your luggage, would they take it and photocopy every page before letting you board the plane? No? Your computer is no different. (I know it is different, but at the same time, it isn't.) If it comes down to not boarding the plane or letting them violate your privacy, and it's within the realm of possibility for you to skip that flight, skip it. (I know most people's lives would be pretty much destroyed by the vengeful facist assholes if they stood up to them, but if you can survive this, and you'll know if you can, do it.)
Take the issue to the airline, to the airport, write letters to the media and politicians, post about it on Slashdot, etc. Complain, loudly, about any and all ill treatment. If you're flying somewhere for business, especially if they've altered their business practices or processes due to this BS, convince them to do telecommuting or alternate modes of transportation. Why should they keep paying people who are shafting them and their employees? If the company they buy widgets from tried to pull this kind of stuff, would they keep buying from that company?
Don't fly. It's expensive, cramped, and every aspect of the 'service' you receive is better described as 'servicing'. Seek alternate routes. (I know it's not really the airlines fault, but they COULD stand up for their customers if they wanted to. But right now they'd rather not. What does that say about how airlines think of their customers?)
I use Windows... like a two dollar wh.. why don't I just go ahead and not finish that sentence.
US courts have always held that no one has any rights or legal protections at a port of entry because no one has entered the country until they have passed through the port of entry. It is an intentionally created limbo, and it has been that way for hundreds of years.
... until they catch one of the hundreds of thousands of deep cover terrorists (that's why we have hundreds of thousands of "persons of interest" on the TSA watchlist, right?) smuggling terrorist plans stored as song lyrics in iPods. Or steganographic hidden messages in cellphone photos.
But you know, THIS IS CLEARLY WORKING, as no Saudi terrorists have flown airliners into buildings since 9-11.
Or perhaps the credit is due to the tens of thousands of American soldiers putting their lives on the line every day in Iraq and Afghanistan to prevent the terrorists from swimming the Atlantic and do serious harm to us back home.
Perhaps in only a few generations, the thousands of years of Islamic history and culture will be overturned and the Islamics will see the wisdom in the separation of church and state.
Of course, in a few generations it's entirely likely that we will have abandoned the separation of church and state, driven to extremist craziness by decades of ideological fools shouting over the TV and radio.
--------------------
Yes, this IS a rant.
I'll bet none of these fucks have ever had to actually take steps to protect confidential data? Do they even know what things like NDAs are?
is that it will do nothing to achieve the stated goal. It wouldn't be acceptable if it could net some intelligence, but it is even less so since it can't.
Why can't it, you ask? Might they just collar J. Random Jihadist as he crosses the border to do some evil deed he has all mapped out on his laptop? No. Because no terrorist worth a damn would transmit data that way. If you had to move sensitive data into the country, you would send an emissary to whatever conspirators you had already in the country with a one time pad in his head. He could then relay it to the conspirators, and you could have a perfectly private channel of communication into the country. No amount of NSA supercomputing can crack anything encrypted this way.
This kind of security theater does nothing. In this instance, there is probably a more sinister motive.
Barbara Felden claims prior art on the flip phone, sues Motorola, Nokia.
The same thing applies to the way recorded data is interpreted or used by one person may not be the same as the next person.
Whats really sad is that the concept of trust is slowly leaving the world - our leaders have successfully ramped up the "culture of fear" to the point where they can do almost whatever they like and we are too busy watching our mortgage/job/neighbours to stop them. It doesn't matter if you believe their rehetoric or not, the fact is that THEY believe it, and they are the ones making the rules.
The one thing we've all forgotten is there's WAY more of us than there is of them (yes I know that's from "A Bug's Life" but it applies here). They've got us all believing that we can't do anything about it when in fact, when you get right down to it, we can all march into our places of government and physically pick them up and take them out if we REALLY wanted to.
The security mindset is quite a piece of work. 2 experiences for sharing 1993: I used to travel with lots of maps for my work in relief and development. Back then you could buy the military JOG's at any map store. (they were reclassified at the start of the latest round in the Gulf). On returning from a high profile assessment mission for the US Government. the customs agent tried to seize my maps. I told her they were published by the US govt, purchased in the US and being returned to the US. On top of that I was a contractor to the US Gov. She still insisted on seizing my maps and I refused. We stared at each other and she relented. Flash forward 2004. Dealing with lots of data and maps for relief and development. The US Gov bureaucrats arrive and start classifying anything they touch. Essentially if they touch it it is now classified because it comes from country X. It does not matter that you buy the map sheet on any corner for a few pennies. Or that everyone already has it and it is posted on the web for any and all to use. They touched it it is now classified , in their own minds. I guess I am just just SOL the next time I travel. they'll probably think they have hit the mother lode with what is on my laptop. Won't matter if I point them to the websites they can download their own copies of the same. When my bags used to set off explosive detectors I made sure I kept copies of my work ID s that showed i worked around explosive disposal sites and told the screener ahead of time. Usually worked without a hitch. What kind of reaction would I get were I to now announce, I have detailed maps and data on Afghanistan, Somalia, Sudan and Iraq in my computer acquired legally and legitimately for my legal and legitimate work? Since I removed the mystery does the USG have the right to seize them just because they want them? Can I refuse until they legally demonstrate that my possession of these constitute a threat to the USG versus being a gee-whiz event for their droll work?
Well, I know what I'm gonna do next time I'm heading over to the states for any period of time...
:-)
...
Format my laptop, and place all my important data on this nifty little usb drive that doubles as a keychain flashlight. Carry a linux install cd with me, of course
Customs: I'd like you to to log into you're computer for me...
Me: I can't.
Customs: *huffs up a bit, and looks menacingly at me* Why?
Me: There Isn't any Operating system Installed.
Customs:
The way I figure, it will either get them to waste their time trying to copy a couple gigs of nothing, or they just shrug and let me pass. Either way, it's all good.
Wouldn't they be liable for copyright infringement.
Holy shit! Schools and transit! Man that's pretty darn bad and evil. I'm pretty worried about THAT stuff.
...
Seriously, what's your damage? LOL
The bible was right, but it wasnt a historical book, it was a prediction of the future.
And our garden of eden has been taken over by 10000000000 snakes called LAWYERS giving us ROTTEN apples to all the EVES.
Wake up women! And you spermless men who eat too much soy.
The govt likes to keep every one busy WORKING to pay OUR credit card debt so we have NO TIME for any REVOLUTION!
I say fuck em all, especially those pension funds, dont pay a cent back to the banks, watch it all fall. Fight club was right on!
The fractional reserve banking system is dead, US is bankrupt, with those cable cuts to Iran, something fishy is coming.
"We see that the Federal Reserve's H.3 Reserves of Depository Institutions shows that for the last week of January, both on a seasonally adjusted and not seasonally adjusted basis, all the financial reserves (required reserves to support the fractional banking system) were negative. In other words, the fraction in fractional reserve has disappeared."
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h3/Current/
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
I am starting to think that after crossing borders: PC should be reinstalled from known media.
BTW: If you told them that /dev/random contained a lot of data - how much would they copy ?
I am an artist.
I create original works, and keep them on my computer.
I own the copyrights to my work.
now, if i were to add some sort of digital rights management to my own files, and the boarder guards were to copy my data, would I be able to sue them for copyright infringement AND violating the DMCA?
finally....a way that the DMCA can be used for good!
-I only code in BASIC.-
And since the US does not have transit zones, this includes flying via a US airport. The 'normal' immigration and security checks already take so long that it's very easy to miss your connecting flight, when you are singled out for laptop inspection you will certainly miss it. So do not fly via or to the US for any reason.
When everybody stops flying to the US, they will know they went too far. For me the (security) delays on a transit flight already made me decide to stop flying there.
Good luck on your island of security and privacy invasion. Let's keep the rest of the world civilized.
More frightening than the act itself is the attitude of creeping intrusiveness justified by people who went through the American educational system
It seems like the United States is becoming every value we were taught to despise as children, and sacrificing everything we once held dear. WE say that Islam is this dangerous threat, but are they really that much more dangerous than a determined, educated, and intelligent set of western adversaries such as the Soviet Union or NAZI Germany? I don't think so.
This is my sig.
The USA is the country for people who don't care about civil rights. All others stay in the civilized world.
USA tourism and business travel will go the way of the dollar: avoid it like the plague.
To all who posted:
If you haven't written your congressmen/women, then do it now. Kvetching about it on /. may be fun venting, but it's not going to change anything.
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
What kind of brain damage must you have experienced to mod parent off topic? It's spot on.
A picture of fightclub scene towards the end where the buildings go down.
Im sure that will send a royal poker up your a hole.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
The difference being that if Mr.Customs agent examines my luggage all that happens is he sees, one time, what my dirty underwear looks like. If Mr.Customs copies my files he has those copies to examine at his leisure for as long as he likes.
Perhaps Customs could spin this as the new "US Government Offsite Backup Program".