Slashdot Mirror
Nuked Coral Reef Bounces Back
sm62704 writes "I found this New Scientist article interesting, as I was actually alive (albeit very small) when Bikini Atoll was H-bombed. The article says that the reason the reefs are now flourishing is because they are mostly undisturbed by humans, who are afraid of the radiation. Background levels there are now 'similar to that at any Australian city,' while nearby islands haven't been so lucky.'When I put the Geiger counter near a coconut, which accumulates radioactive material from the soil, it went berserk,' says Maria Beger of the University of Queensland in Australia."
sounds like a great place to visit. I can see the ad now..."Come see the beautiful, undisturbed coral reefs. Just don't go near the irradiated coconuts!"
Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
...wouldn't happen to be Wickwicky, would it?
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
Would sure as hell make survivor more interesting.
"oh, and by the way, anything you eat is likely radioactive"
Maybe make the first episode with reality TV execs on the island....
Queue Gilligan's Island jokes too.
...
Hmmm... so when are we going to see Giant Coral reefs draining the Gaea out of it's soul?
Maybe we should nuke all the worlds hypoxic dead zones! That would certainly remove the waste accumulated there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_zone_(ecology)
Were there lots/little/none ? Oh, come on - that would be one of the most interesting things to tell us. We are all so worried about ''nuclear power fading your genes'' - we now have a 60 year experiment that could tell us about long term effects but they are silent.
now we just have to bomb the shit out of Australia so our scientists can proudly proclaim "these coral reefs are far LESS radioactive than any Australian city!"
Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
How bad is the radiation in Australian cities?
REAlly, I think it proves that after we screw things up royally on this planet to the point where we are no longer able to live on it, it won't take the earth too long to bounce back and thrive once more. Hopefully the next set of inhabitants on this planet will look after it better than we do.
Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
"occasional forays of illegal shark, tuna and Napoleon Wrasse fishing"
Couldn't the criminals find a less radioactive region to illegally fish? Who wants to eat radioactive fish anyway? I know the article says that "ambient radiation is low", but I doubt the fish would be rated A-grade.
Insert self-referential sig here.
For those of you who are anthropologists as well as zoologists, it should be mentioned that there were native inhabitants of these islands that were forced to move before the tests.
We did it to Native Americans on the continental United States as well but it really bears mentioning that there was a pretty gross injustice paid to these peaceful peoples in the name of atomic testing. I remember watching this footage on an ABC special as a kid and I luckily recorded it so I could watch it over and over again. When watching project Baker, I kept thinking "Wow, that's impressive, that was somebody's home."
I suppose I'll be called a self-hating liberal but I believe we should never forget the price we pay for the weapons we hold. These weapons that were supposed to be the end of war aren't and any future horror developed to stop war won't be the end to war either.
Just imagine what the look on your face would be if someone showed up and told you to evacuate your state because it was now going to be used for nuclear testing. You probably wouldn't be very happy to leave your home in the name of warfare.
My work here is dung.
I was rather stunned when, planning my trip to AU a few years ago, I realized that ONE nuclear sub could take out the whole country!
Or at least send it to Mad Max-land.
Physically AU is huge. Roughly the size of the US. Superimposing a map of one on the other gives fairly accurate driving times and distance calculations.
Demographically it is very very small.
I also figured out the real problem is water. While the US, EU, and CN have large navigable rivers running deep into their continents, AU has nothing to bring water to the center of the country (or more accurately there isn't enough rain in the center to drain and form navigable rivers).
AU could be a super-power if it had enough water to support a population of 300 million. Instead it is so dry they are lucky to have 1/10 of that at about 22 million.
Originally it went:
'When I put the Geiger counter near a coconut, which accumulates radioactive material from the soil, it went nuts,'
Its not too bad but it does cause some interesting side effects.
:P
What? You thought kangaroos were natural?
Maybe we should consider nuking all environmentally sensitive areas.
No, wait...
Read reviews of shopping cart software
Chernobyl has already bounced back.
Animal life around Chernobyl is also doing well. That's not an indication that radiation is harmless (most animals are shorter lived than humans, so they can tolerate more radiation), it's an indication that human presence is even more harmful than radiation.
Fallout will never happen, only human get wiped away from the planet, and mother Gaia will be happy. As long as we don't use too many H-bombs
The full story is that although some of the corals have bounced back remarkably, the nuking has also resulted in the localised extinction of some more sensitive sensitive species However the research has also revealed a disturbingly high level of loss of coral species from the atoll. Compared with a famous study made before the atomic tests were carried out, the team established that 42 species were missing compared to the early 1950s. At least 28 of these species losses appear to be genuine local extinctions probably due to the 23 bombs that were exploded there from 1946-58, or the resulting radioactivity, increased nutrient levels and smothering from fine sediments. Article also has some good stats on the nuking itself: One of the most interesting aspects is that the team dived into the vast Bravo Crater left in 1954 by the most powerful American atom bomb ever exploded (15 megatonnes - a thousand times more powerful than the Hiroshima bomb). The Bravo bomb vapourised three islands, raised water temperatures to 55,000 degrees, shook islands 200 kilometers away and left a crater 2km wide and 73m deep.
I once heard something fascinating. After the Chernobyk accident, the radioactive cloud that contaminated (mainly) the north of Norway caused allot of fear in people, and for people's health. The gouvernment continued to slaughter and burn massive amounts of raindeer and livestock.
A friend later told me that the meat was actually fully usable, and that it's destruction may have been unnecessary. She suggested we should have fed it to the elderly population, which did not have time to develop cancer from the meat anyhow.
There will be allot of talk in this discussion about the fear of radiation, and that is why this discussion is so good. Life does well with increased radiation! Humans don't however, by virtue of the way we look at human society and human worth. What it does say however, is that fear of nuclear energy, a power source that may have dramatically less consequence for life on this planet than most other energy sources, prevents us from progressing in the energy debate! (and maybe also in space exploration, given worries of launching nuclear-powered space craft)
Check this news item for a similar case to the coral reef in the article.
"People in the first world have convinced themselves that chemicals and radiation stand in the way of their personal immortality"
- James Lovelock
Sure... reefs can bounce. Next they'll be telling us the sponges can talk.
You put the lime in the coconut, and drink it all up... Then die of radiation poisoning.
Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
Even without husk-gripping, coconuts move... they're supposed to, thats how they get from island to island...
I think this is a note to self: do NOT eat coconuts that you find on the seashore. I wonder if anyone's realized that little issue...
And of course Maria Beger was eaten alive by the mutant coconut.
The Gish Bar Times - Blog covering Jupiter's moon Io
With the giant mutant anemones and sponges with teeth and the crushing and the laser eyes!
.... and mutant.
To people of Japan, your cities are no longer safe. Run for your lives. The coral is back, and this time it's pissed
Genesis 1:32 And God typed
Ho Hum. Yet another scientist states the bleeding obvious
Current carried Coral spawn finds way to recently devastated rock in the pacific ocean. Whoopie do
Far more interesting would be a long term study of the changing dynamics of the coral of fast travelling coral (for want of a better term) vs more aggressive coral but slower travelling coral spawn.
ie. is this a first in best dressed scenario?
Other than that this is a Nothing to see here. move along story.
Nuked nuts. Huhuh.
Coconuts tend to be blown off of trees during storms. Then they float a LONG distance. Somebody COULD pick one up and eat it. I am surprised that the feds has not decided to use plant remediation to pull the radiation off the island. All they need to do is harvest the grass and even trees every so often. Of course, if it still has high radiation, put a number of animals back there. This is the time to see how humans will do in space.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
That explains the crazy contraptions the Professor came up with.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
that we totally defeat the Bikini Atoll in a nuclear war!! Woo go USA
It was silly though, back when US sentiment was so against Bikini Atoll, that everyone decided to change the name "Bikini" to "Freedom suit."
How the hell did I make that mistake?
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
If you get the nut mod patch working with the open source clone of X-COM, it could be fun. (Coconut being the toughest, walnut for a typical foot soldier, and so on. Replace the different rocket systems with African and European swallows.)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Hope I got the title right, but I think this was the name of a great documentary following the resurgence of wildlife in Chernobyl's exclusion zone. I came away with the impression that the radiation is more of a detriment to humans to the rest of the natural world.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
These weapons that were supposed to be the end of war aren't and any future horror developed to stop war won't be the end to war either. First, we developed the weapons and these kept USSR and America from going to war. The simple fact is, that both side were terrified of using these. We all knew what would happen. So, it really did accomplish what we wanted. And later, other nations aquired the knowledge. Some by their own work, and others by stealing it. The ones who developed it on their own had an advanced enough form of gov. that they are not real threats to those around them. Of course, until recently, Israel was probably the only one who had any real chance of using theirs.
The real problem is the recent round of nuclear build-out. These countries do not have the maturity to handle these. Basically, Turkey and Pakistan. This can be blamed soley on a number of top pubs who sold our nuke secrets for a few gold coins (relatively speaking). People like RichardPerle, douglas feith, EricEdelman, and Marc Grossman. These guys, and others, sold it to Turkey and Pakistan. This action really could start a war. Pakistan supposedly passed on their knowledge to Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, etc. Hopefully the next president will go after these guys for the treason that they committed.
In the end, I suspect that it will not matter. There are so many other easy ways to attack other ppl. Groups like Al Qaeda could easily mutate the avian flu and then spread it quickly in the west (and all for less than a dozen of their ppl; thank god that they are religious; the mullahs do not want to kill the innocent). Plenty of ways for us to kill each other.
And if could stop a world war, yeah, I would allow the feds to move me to another place, pay for a new home, and provide me with a nice new job, schooling for my children, etc, which IIRC, is what we did.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
All of life has the same problem. That is the radiation induces faster changes in all. Some on birth defects. The vast majority are simply miscarried (most ppl never realize that many women suffer at least 1 miscarriage and it is due to a fatal defect). But of course, some make it to the world. The recent Indian girl who was born with a duplicated face (probably the best place that she could be born was in northern India; there she is a goddess; elsewhere she would be considered a freak) was possibly induced via radiation or pollution. For the living, it means loads of cancer. No doubt that animal life in any of these radioactive areas are suffering shortened lives due to such. In fact, I am amazed that we (USA and Russia) are not tagging these animals to see how long and what they look like at end of life. These are all living labs. Heck, I am more amazed that Hollywood has not made some interesting movies based on just these areas.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
...the reason the reefs are now flourishing is because they are mostly undisturbed by humans...Background levels there are now 'similar to that at any Australian city... So what do we do? We tell the world about it of course!If humans were kept away because they were 'afraid' and consequently the reef has recovered why would you tell everywhere it's safe? Doesn't that defeat the point?
The term "bikini" had no other meaning back then. The suit you are referring to was so named because of the bomb-testing — a stroke of a marketing genious. I must admit, it is quite rare to find a slashdot-poster less informed than a musician:
by Gang of Four.In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Any sign of a 200ft mutated iguana in TFA?
Cue the cut scenes of panicked citizens running away from the shoreline whilst an authoritative man barks orders into a microphone.
Geiger counters indicate the level of radiation received by the sensor. It can either indicate a high level of radiation, or a low level of radiation, and emit the necessary audible tones relative to that sensed level.
Usually, if a piece of equipment is said to "go berserk," it means that the reading seems somehow flawed, as if the device is not operating properly. So, in the author's attempt to exaggerate one meaning, he actually conveyed something quite different through the misuse of language.
So, as far as I am concerned, he could not measure the level of radiation emanating from the coconut because his equipment was broken.
"When I put the Geiger counter near a coconut, which accumulates radioactive material from the soil, it went berserk," says Beger.
At this point Beger realized he was pointing it to his crotch. It's all fun and analysis until someone grows another arm out of their back.
There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
All these countries that you speak of would put their entire population (and some have) into disgusting poverty in order to get their hands on nuclear weapons. The real problem is the recent round of nuclear build-out. I don't get it, how do other countries getting the bomb change your logic any further? I mean, the U.S. was religious enough an the U.S.S.R. was so anti-religion it was worse than being religious. You say these countries could really start a war because they lack maturity
Biological warfare would just be the new horror, we'd get strains of all our favorite diseases and so would Russia, China, all the countries you listed. There'd still be conventional war, we'd still dump half our resources into developing these strains and everyone everywhere would still be thinking that it's a good thing we'll never use them. Until the day we do.
This is an endless cycle, we're doomed to repeat this forever. If you want to get a Large Hadron Collider operating in the United States, convince congress it can create black holes that would easily be used as weapons against anyone. And if could stop a world war, yeah, I would allow the feds to move me to another place, pay for a new home, and provide me with a nice new job, schooling for my children, etc, which IIRC, is what we did. Money solves everything, does it? I would wager some of these people (as the same special interviewed the older ones) didn't really care about that.
My work here is dung.
The reason those Aussie cities are so radioactive is all the damn coconuts washing up on the shore!
What was the reading?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Exactly! Geiger counters are usually ridiculously sensitive. I don't think that "going berserk" can be easily translated to mSv/hr. Presumably this guy has no training in radiation safety and shouldn't be anywhere near the atoll.
have they found any teenage mutant ninja turtles down there??
Did we want to use nukes? Well, to the point of testing them. And we did. We did all sorts of tests. But other then first use of these, we never used on ppl again. Just because we have these weapons does not mean that we will use them. We have sarin and VX in our arsenal (as do a number of western countries). We also have a number of biologicals that have been weaponized. And of course, we have our nukes. All of these same items are possessed by Russia, China, and a number of western countries. Can we use ever these? ABout the only way is if we are in a world war again. No other time would we use such horrors. In fact, just about any country that uses these will be ostracized unless they were attack by such first. Have you ever taken any of the martial arts, learned to shoot a gun, or archery? If you know these things, do you really feel the need to use these against others? Nope. You just want to be prepared.
Maturity in a gov. is the ability to recognize that some of your actions are NOT in your citizen's best interest and then acting that way. Many leaders act in their own personal interest and that is considered immature. In a mature gov, their will be enough safe guards to prevent 1 or several ppl from being able to carry out such policies. That is the idea of congress, which is to reign in control on the president (or that is what they are suppose to do). Nearly all democracies/republics operate in such fashion. But even totalitarian states such as china can do so. China is controlled by a relatively small group of ppl, but they have controls on each other. Would I call them mature? Well, lets just say that I would not call them immature. They are in a massive build up of their military (esp on nukes and ICBMs), but I think that overall they will handle themselves well. Is maturity about hating somebody? Nope. USSR was mature. They actually had controls in place. OTH, what kind of controls does Musharraf have? Relatively little (hence relatively immature), though he would have to explain himself. Likewise, if North Korea's Kim Jong-il acquires this and decides to use this, will he have controls placed on him? NONE.
As I mentioned in my first post, AQ has controls in place by their view of religion. That control has stopped them from taking the next step. So, you want me to tell you how to weaponize Avian Flu? The funny thing is that I have thought about writting a book about this (as in a drama ). Here is the recipe.
Now, before you get your panty's all in a bunch and rant and scream that I have just told
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Also, the island's tomacco crop has never been better!
I imagine that a pair of swallows, either African or European, could take one of these coconuts quite far.
Couldn't we mine the coconuts for nuclear fuel? ;-)
That would create a whole new meaning to the term "biofuel".
http://www.dieblinkenlights.com
This is an example of the linking in slashdot that drives me crazy.
In this:
I found this New Scientist article interesting, as I was actually alive (albeit very small) when Bikini Atoll was H-bombed. The article says that the reason the reefs are now flourishing is..
Why is 'Bikini Atoll was H-bombed' linked, which would mean that clicking on it would lead to information about the bombing?
Why isn't 'this New Scientist article' or even 'The article says' the linked words?
In slashdot entries with a number of links, I can rarely tell what to click on, because of inane references like this.
if the package says, "made in china", you really might wish to re-consider.
Yeah... I think we do... but you still need rain to top them up. And - if you modify your water table too much - everything over here gets a lot more salty all of a sudden. Something about Acid Sulphate Soils... Our habit of irrigating areas that were the bottom of the ocean 60 million years ago is coming around to bite us in the arse...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Bravo
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
I've taught the coconuts to glow in the dark!
Power corrupts. Absolute power...is even more fun.
I've always heard that only roaches will survive a nuclear fall out, but it turns out the reefs and coconuts will do just as well.
Can I bum a sig?
We have to send people? Shoot, we don't even have to get near...
...just nuke the damn things and have done. Would destroy the blasted things right quick and there would be no danger from radioactive coconu....oh...
And the platypus? Surely proof that nature has a sense of humour.
"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?" - Albert Einstein
for misplaced modifiers!
First, coconuts to not "accumulate radioactive material from the soil" any more than any other plant.
Second, the half-life of the radioactive elements created by the bombs tested there are not capable of producing sufficient quantities of isotopes that (even if accumulated in a coconut) would, 50 years later, send a Geiger counter "berserk" unless some moron had it set to such a sensitivity that a piece of granite would do the same.
Their opponents however, who are trying to do everything to prevent them from producing A-bombs in the first place, are not to be trusted that much, because they (America, Israel) are the ones that have started wars in the last couple of years (the latter only in "defense", but I think they/their PR may be able to produce one such "defense" case quickly).
Part of the reason to not want Iran getting nukes is that such a condition might be the kind of case were extreme minded Israelis would use theirs. Israel's survival has depended strongly on the notion of being pre-emptive when war is imminent. In '67 they succeeded because they hit first. In '73 they took a licking because the Arabs did. The biggest(and many say only) thing keeping Iran from going to war with Israel is that they would lose. Gaining nukes would go a long way to evening the odds. You can accuse me of taking sides all you like, but it is in everyone's best interests that the odds remain strongly in Israel's favor. Iran's leadership isn't the only group of Arabs who'd readily go to war if they felt they could win. To prevent war, history shows that both sides need to be unlikely to gain anything through war. It's also shown the most certain way to accomplish that is to have the most peaceful side carry the biggest stick.
welcome our berserker radioactive coconut overlords!
Really? What Slashdot are you reading? I see lots of dumb posts. They're the ones that don't get modded + anything. For all the +5's we see, there are a whole bunch of dumbasses posting as well.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. But light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
The effects of lower levels of radiation is not so terrible for short-lived creatures. When a human takes a low-level radiation dose, the consequences are of cancers that start to show up years afterwards. But for a coral polyp or a small fish with a life expectancy of just a few years - cancer is a non-problem, it won't happen until long after the animal would have died of natural causes anyway.
There may be a small number of birth deformities - but again, these animals produce a bazillion offspring which have a low probability of survival anyway - the few unfortunate deformed ones are merely the first to get picked off by predators - so again, no big deal.
The biggest issues are of biological concentration of radioactivity. So radioactive contaminants tend to accumulate in the creatures at the head of the food chain - but the absence of those higher predators helps in the reef recovery process.
It's amazing how quickly nature rebounds when you get people out of the picture.
Film of the detonation (see shot 11).
The fact that India and Pakistan are enemies and both have nukes should be some cause for concern.
Concern, yes, but it shouldn't be overwhelming fear. After all, they don't have a dozen nukes between the two of them.
Go back 40 years and you're looking at the USA and USSR as enemies and thousands of nukes.
Hopefully the same thing will occur - both sides now know that the other can destroy them, but they can destroy in return. Mutually Assured Destruction.
Thus, the diplomats become much more important than armies. Peace, of a sort, ensues.
I don't read AC A human right
The "Tiger Moth" was genetically identical. What you are referring to is not evolutionary, it is something called "gene expression," just ask a comparative mammalian phylologist. The neighborhood where I live has mostly gray squirrels. The same squirrels are sometimes all black, sometimes all white. Same animal, and no, the white is not albino. It is just white (I can see their eyes are not red). If you live in a neighborhood with squirrels, you may occasionally spot the rarity. I think the white ones are harder to predate (aka 'hunt') in the winter, so I see a similarity to the Tiger Moth you mentioned earlier. Aside from SUVs and the occasional punk kid, few things hunt squirrels in my neighborhood. Still, if it is a squirrel or a moth, the patterns of coloration are just the same. I've seen this in other animals as well. Go look up gene expression. Wikipedia offers a very complicated and complete explanation, but I boil it down to this:
Gene Expression is like a small function in a big program that usually doesn't get run, but sometimes, if things are just right, it gets run a lot.
About 3 years ago there was a TV special on Bikini Atoll and how the wildlife there has exploded due to lack of all human intervention (read harvesting). All of the shipwrecks are now beautiful artificial reefs teeming with life of all kinds and on all levels of the food chain. (The shark population alone is staggering)
The background radiation levels underwater are zero, so the entire area is now open for private SCUBA charters, with dive packages including boat dives on many of the largest ships sunk there. (The Saratoga, The Nagato, etc)
As for the coconuts, that's true of any radioactively contaminated area. Living things absorb radioactive material. Especially plants. Plant life and soil are the most radioactive things surrounding Chernobyl. (Unless you're inside the sarcophagus staring at the "elephant's foot" http://youtube.com/watch?v=u5EAS5PT7Q8)
This begs the question: Could you seed a contaminated area with plants which are good at absorbing radioactive isotopes and harvest/dispose of them to clean up an area? Could we clean Bikini over time by going through several years of coconut harvesting?
Nuking the site from orbit is not sufficient to be sure?
Ok, that's not entirely true about the humans. I think "Dateline" was the show that went and interviewed a woman who never left Chernobyl. Old, sure. Scruffy? Among the most. Alive? Well, she has no neighbors, and the place is overrun with wolves and other dangerous animals, so heck, I bet she's always on the run. Wussy newscasters had to bring a 'guide' into the area. I bet she could take Stone Phillips in a bare knuckle knock-down. I wonder if she makes her own soap from the fat of the animals she kills to stay alive.
I can just see it now, a Terror attack where they drop radioactive cocanuts on to unsuspecting American cities from planes....
22 years is not quite 30-odd.
2008-1986 = 22
!30+
Dear dumb-ass reporter, 5 years is "bouncing back", not 50.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
This reminds me of a news story I read about a decade ago. There was an island off the New England coast that the Navy used as bombing target. Their permission to do so was up for renewal, and you might expect environmental groups to oppose this. Wrong: the environmentalists calculated that the damage done by the Navy's bombs was more than offset by the protection afforded by making the island off limits to people.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Almost as if they had just... evolved to cope with the massive doses of radiation they cop every day.
The tricky thing about evolution is, only the survivors survive it.
Naturally, some sub-population will survive and, lacking competition, thrive. Most humans, though, would consider it unacceptable to eliminate, say, the 50% of a population that is most susceptible to radiation (or heart disease, or any other condition) even if the surviving population was stronger and better adapted as a result.
The US free market: two halves of a government-granted duopoly are free to set the market price.
So to save the Great Barrier Reefs we need to Nuke Australia. Sorry Australia its for the good of the planet, nothing personal.
Is that why they look like a smaller, cuter, version of Godzilla? Have any of them developed atomic breath?
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
What better way to create an ecological preserve than by nuking it?
"Waste not one watt!" - CZ
My Dad was at Bikini Atoll and was standing on the deck (enlisted on deck- officers in the bridge!) of another ship when the test was conducted. His ship, the USS Lamson, was unmanned and moored a distance away from detonation to study the range and effect of the weapon. They were told to close their eyes for the flash. He watched his ship just get blown over and sink. Only recently has it been deemed safe to dive on the Lamson. Some day I will go and dive on the Lamson and maybe even see the gunner tower Dad manned.
We had to nuke the coral reef to save it.
From Jared Diamond's Collapse, another problem is the soil. The Australian plate has been eroded for eons and most of the soil that could sustain plants (natural or cultivated) has been washed away eras ago. Diamond almost suggested to forget about cattle and agriculture and concentrate on mining.
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
Selective reading is much like statistics...
"However the research has also revealed a disturbingly high level of loss of coral species from the atoll. Compared with a famous study made before the atomic tests were carried out, the team established that 42 species were missing compared to the early 1950s. At least 28 of these species losses appear to be genuine local extinctions probably due to the 23 bombs that were exploded there from 1946-58, or the resulting radioactivity, increased nutrient levels and smothering from fine sediments."
http://www.coralcoe.org.au/news_stories/bikini.html
I have spoken'eth.
Forget the kangaroos. We have much .
meh
You ever been to Vancouver?