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Growing Plants on the Moon May Be Feasible
Smivs writes "European scientists say that
growing plants on the moon
should be possible. Scientists in the Netherlands believe growing plants on our sister satellite would be useful as a tool to learn how life adapts to lunar conditions. It would also aid in understanding the challenges that might be faced by manned bases. 'The new step, taken in the experiments reported at the EGU, is to remove the need for bringing nutrients and soil from Earth. A team led by Natasha Kozyrovska and Iryna Zaetz from the National Academy of Sciences in Kiev planted marigolds in crushed anorthosite, a type of rock found on Earth which is very similar to much of the lunar surface. In neat anorthosite, the plants fared very badly. But adding different types of bacteria made them thrive; the bacteria appeared to draw elements from the rock that the plants needed, such as potassium.'"
it had to be said.
Cue the 'I know what kind of plant that's going to be!!!!oneeleven!!!' -comments.
sister satellite
I don't think that means what the article writer intended it to mean...
can't sleep slashdot will eat me
Don't plants need some form of air to survive? Not just rocks and bacteria? Don't see this working out.
We may only get one chance to do this right. If we introduce a bacteria that can survive without artificial shelter (doubtful, but possible), it's there forever. Many of the problems we've had here with invasive species has been due to things introduced intentionally that ended up doing things that weren't anticipated.
Granted, the moon is a harsh enough environment that anything we do will probably only be in a pressurized man-made structure, but that might not be the case if we try it on Mars.
Why wouldn't they try a plant that grows in extremely low nutrient soil? There are plenty of plants that grow in sand along beaches and generate their own food through photosynthesis (all plants do, but some rely on it more than others).
Garden flowers are probably the worst type of plant to try to grow in nutrient-free dirt.
Step 1: Grow plant on moon
Step 2:?
Step 3: Profit.
But seriously, I wish that NASA would just start spending money on actually trying stuff. Just go to the freakin moon and see what works. Stop messing around on jerk face LEO.
Sunlight is the biggest problem. Most places on the Moon go through two weeks of darkness, and providing sunlight-equivalent illumination would be energy prohibitive. Soviet scientists have experimented with keeping plants on low artificial light at low temperatures for two weeks, alternating that with two weeks of light. Apparently, peas can grow like this.
One step closer to being able to play sports on the moon.
Yes, but how many of these conditions are met by the stuff in our landfills?
I think you can see where I'm going with this.
I'm waiting for a "-1 somepeoplejustshouldn'tgetmodprivileges" meta-moderation.
Of COURSE they used marigolds.
Now they need to study the effect of gamma rays on these plants.
Cheech: "Sounds like the perfect place to grow some reefer, man."
Chong: "Like wow man, the pigs would never think to look on the moon, man."
By transporting all of our trash and landfills to the moon we'll have a source to grow plants. That's brilliant!
Any one else get this image in there head when they read the header ? Plant can't survive on lunar soil so it bonds with some symbiotic mars bacteria and starts eating human flesh ?? no ??
It'll grow anywhere. It don't need no stinkin' air. The Moon will be completely covered in 3 to 5 years.
You do know that people have been growing plants in mineral solutions for years don't you?
You will only need a source of Co2 which could be delivered from the earth and use a sealed glasshouse (greenhouse) to conserve the ecosystem.
After you have got "enough" oxygen from the plants you can then send some lambs and rabbits to produce more Co2 for the plants.
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
Actually, you're wrong on every account.
1: The dirt "does" have enough nutrients for some variety of plants.
2: Present under a pressure dome, that the plants would have to have anyway.
3 and 4: Are satisfied by having non-acidic, non alkaline, neutral soil PH, which exists on the moon.
5: Topic of the article.
6: Water "is" speculated to be buried in pockets on the moon.
7 and 8: Both present under a pressure dome.
Growing plants on the moon, just as hard as putting up a pressure dome that people living there would need to be under anyway.
*insert annoying self-signing at the end of a post that already has my name on it at the top anyway*
What about you just RTFA for once instead of dismissing the entire thing right away? It's not even the article that you're dismissing, it's the title, because that's all you needed to read to come up with that comment.
You just got troll'd!
...that's all I'm saying...
Moon Weed!
I'm not a botanist, but I believe a Hydroponic solution would solve most, if not all the issues you've listed there.
I always like to point to this article: Terraforming: Human Destiny or Hubris
It argues Konstantin Tsiolkovsky's vision: that we should learn how to grow plants in Space first, and stay the hell away from all gravity sinks (such as moons, such as planets,) for a very long time.
That said, if we can grow plants on the moon, that's great!
(older article)
I drew up some plans to make what I call a "moontank". At the moment, the design is for cyanobacteria, however adding plants would be an interesting modification. The idea is to use a vacuum chamber here on earth and to make up something that looks like the same environment as found on the moon. Sprinkle in some bacteria, do some directed selection experiments, and see what we can get out of it.
1: Not necessarily.
2: Pressure? Why? Water? See cacti. CO2, yes, I don't know why nitrogen is necessary though.
3 and 4: There are plants that abide in very high or low acidity soils.
5: The summary discusses bacteria that could abide on the moon.
6: See 3/4.
7: Some plants survive.
8: No. Doesn't need to be above freezing necessarily, or *nothing* would be alive in the winter.
Most of these could be fixed if we used green houses, but my only concern would be #7 like you said.
Hey! Look a Distraction!
*laugh* Oh, those wacky Dutch. Trying to start a grow-op on the moon.
I for one welcome our new lunar based, wooden shod, pot growing overlords, and anticipate the weed that is truly out of this world.
I think that's a good sign for lunar exploration -- brothels and legalized drugs will make space attractive for much more of the population.
Cheers
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Nobody is talking about growing plants on the moon outdoors. The biggest obstacle to growing plants on the moon is going to be getting humans to go back to the moon, in the first place...
First they make Moon Pies...now agriculture jobs are going there too.
Mod up please, The above author just proved the research pointless because hydroponics and Aeroponics can grow plants without any soil at all.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
So after reading the article like a good slashdotter, I got to thinking. This is all possible of course. Some people say soil could be too acidic... Ever grow a pine tree? Growing up we planted a bunch around the house... they required acid to be put into the soil all the time. Anyway I digress. I am wondering... For the Moon/Mars/Upstate NY, What kinds of plants are the best at surviving almost ANYTHING? Well, marigolds, all the types of grass, etc. Why not remotely set up a dome say.... 100 meters in diameter, and however high... Release the bacteria, oxygen, nitrigen, etc... and just let an ecosystem form for awhile. Then attempt other plants as the grass dies and creates REAL soil, and then figure out a way of expanding upon the dome. ::shrugs::
Just my own idea... Could always do the wrath of "KHAAAAANNNNNNNNN!!!" thing and make the genesys torpedo :) I am just wondering why people think this can't work? I bet it could work on mars too... if only it was 50 degrees warmer... Oh well.
-- Josh
"Whoopie! Man, that may have been a small one for Neil, but that's a long one for me!" - Pete Conrad
Would this be enough to grow plants on the moon? The only way to find out would be to do the experiment, but as Biosphee 2 demonstrated, miscalculations are expensive and easy to make. (Biosphere 2 would have needed to be two to three times the size it was to have functioned as intended, due to uninvited insects getting in.) On Earth, the miscalculation was so expensive that nobody has tried repeating the experiment with recalculated dimensions. For the moon, where the cost of transport and construction would be tens of thousands that on Earth due to the high fuel costs and short mission times, you not only get just one shot at it, but you also have to make sure that one shot produces enormous value for money. Unless you know of a tree that produces pure platinum fruit, I don't see that being possible - at least, for now. Future launch systems might become cheap enough to make this possible, but I don't think we're remotely close to the point we could even test the theory, let alone make it worth the testing.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Was it a man-in-the-moon marigold? And what were the effect of gamma rays?
What about just harvesting the cheese?
sorry dude - but that is some Seriously Wishful Thinking.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Damn good setup, but I wish your original post had been high enough to show, up so I could have read it first.
Just -1, Troll talking to another.
I'm pretty sure that items 3 and 4 are mutually exclusive; therefore, at least one of them could be met. Also, the moon soil does contain nutrients. So there are at least two.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Not only that, Hydroponics also makes the whole experiment pointless.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
This article looked far cooler at first glance, when it said "Growing pants on the moon..."
The Effect of Gamma Rays on Man-in-the-Moon marigolds!
Who is going to design and make all those little teeny space suits?
The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
Space suit bong.
I wish I could remember the program I saw this on, but the link between microbes and plant growth has been seen here on Earth as well. I high alpine environments, some scientists had noted that the conditions would seem to indicate there should be more plant life. When they investigated, they found that there were large increases in soil born microbes at the freeze line and the tree line. The soil at higher elevations (through exposure or UV radiation) was less favorable to microbes, and they has a theory that this related directly to the growth of plants.
I can see it now⦠in 2055 the pilot episode of "Little Base on the Lunar Prairie" airs on the intarstellarspaceweb.
Well, unless someone can build a simple habitat to keep an atmosphere, this will remain a moonage daydream oh yeah...
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
No life on mars or the moon? Lets put some there.... In a billion or two billion years it'll be ready for colonization.
... the moon is a harsh mistress!
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Dolittle_in_the_Moon
Clearly the plant to use is Petunias - and preferably a bowl of them sent to the moon.
Then of course we need to establish exactly what the Petunias are thinking
Growing plants on the Moon could also be a fairly simple and reliable way to use solar energy to power equipment up there. Plants capture and store solar energy at up to 12% (theoretical maximum photosynthetic) efficiency, and up to 8% is some land plants (and over that in some aquatic plants). The infrastructure for maintaining it, once atmosphere and water are maintained in balance, is pretty simple and reliable. And all of that is compatible with human life, since we can eat the plants (and their products) to for not just energy but other health effects (fiber). And still get energy out of what we've passed after digestion.
That kind of setup would make a reliable Lunar colony work, that could also export surplus energy (probably by laser to the Earth via satellite). And the huge R&D investment could improve the techniques that we use down on Earth, too, for both food and energy farming.
--
make install -not war
Funny, the potassium in anorthosite is in trace amounts: we're talking 1.0 Weight%. Biologically speaking, it would be even more interesting to take low-K hardy plants and see how they evolve, in low gravity too.
I say fuck it, let's put an atmosphere on that sucker and see what life does to it.
So where is this pressure dome and "speculated" water? I'd like to know because I'm interested in building a golf course there. Can I grow real grass, or is it just speculated grass that grows with speculated water? Is the speculated water in some convenient location, like a nearby lake or babbling brook?
And the O2 and CO2 in the pressure dome... Will I have to ship that in from Earth? Thank goodness that can't be very expensive.
And please don't tell me about getting O2 from mineral oxides; that takes a huge amount of energy (and more oxygen than you'll get back, if you're burning anything to heat your rocks).
Seriously... There are a lot of otherwise fairly smart people who yearn so strongly for their SF to come true that they willingly forget all of the science and engineering they know and lose touch with reality. Some things just don't happen not because they're impossible, but because they're not economically feasible. Unfortunately, lunar and planetary colonization may just be one of those things.
TANSTAAFL? :)
Where are you going to get mineral solutions on the moon?
The point of this research is to show that you don't need to import the minerals from earth, you can use bacteria to break down moon rocks.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
The suggested solution, by transporting a LOT less water, may be a hair easier to deliver.
Agency: Health And Human Services
Announcement Type: Announcement of the availability of federal funds to fund the establishment of Trial Cooperative Standards Lunar Implementations.
I will plant corpse flowers (titan arum) on the moon and populate the lifeless orb with Mongolian Death Worms. I will then rename the "moon" to "Kadath" and build my castle there.
Proposal submission deadline: COB 06/15/2008.
I love this kind of argument because it is so easy to debunk. A self sustaining moon colony would be worth the money it takes to set up, from a scientific and economic standpoint. This just makes it cheaper to do.
Consider that there are no pests on the moon. There is nothing but open space and free sunlight. The moon has a tiny gravity well. Think about bio-fuel production on Earth, and all the problems that go along with it. None of those problems exist on the moon.
If you can't see any of the reasons to have a moon colony in the first place, you are too stupid to try to explain this too.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Because, you know, its not as if governments have piles and piles of money they they like to spend on things.
So, you're saying we can't make a pressure dome, when its actually cheaper to make a pressure dome than it is to make a single spacestation module? (It really is just a piece of plastic with some airlock doors that you connect to hallways. It doesn't even need to be particularly tough, just thick plastic.)
Considering that night on the moon is some two weeks long of pitch black, they're also going to need artificial grow lights. And at some point, once you've provided air, water, soil and light, why bother with the moon at all?
You don't have to sign your posts. We already know you're Ralph Spoilsport (or "RS") by the top portion of your comments.
The lunar surface is not composed of the same materials as the "dirt" that one finds on Earth.
It is entirely composed of pulverized rock that has been pounded into very fine particles over
many billions of years. While lunar "dirt" has a chemical composition, it lacks the organic matter
that soil here on Earth possesses. One very interesting finding in lunar dirt is the presence of
structures called 'agglutinates'. They are essentially 'bonded' shards of glass and minerals that
were formed in meteorite impacts. They are extremely small -on the order of a few microns in size- and
very sharp, like clumps of little glass daggers. These could present a hazard to the growing roots
of plants that have been planted in 'raw' lunar dirt, shredding the roots as they attempt to grow through
this material. They also present an unknown hazard to the humans who will be living and working within
this lunar 'terrarium'. An interesting article http://www.wired.com/science/space/news/2005/04/67110
appeared on Wired a few years ago that spoke about this issue.
Sig this!
Yet it's guaranteed to happen in the near future. I don't think you understand reality very well.
"I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
Cosmic radiation is THE single biggest issue. The Apollo astronauts took a calculated risk. The high energy particles from a certain type of solar flare can kill an unprotected human in 30 min. Doesn't happen that often, but if it does, you're toast.
Ok, so lets protect them you say. Easier said than done, you need some 10 ft of soil above you to protect you. Or maybe 6 ft of lead crystal; so with a bit of engraving you'd get one hell of decorative dome.
I'm aging rapidly, I bought a new game and had no idea if my machine was good for it.
So... potassium, huh?
WE already HAVE the technology to grow plants on the moon. We have the technology to grow plants in just about any reasonable medium. It's called hydroponics.
:-)
Now quit worrying about whether or not we can use moon rocks for growing medium, and start looking for moon ice we can render liquid.
If there's a castle floating upside down in the sky, then there's a castle floating upside down in the sky.
Horticulture is impossible on the moon, the Gorgatron will destroy your craps!
"In a very distant future"... always happens there that there is something weird in the sky, like a red sun, much bigger, or not circular moon or even another sun. But is the 1st time i got the idea of a green moon on the sky.
You Tube link ... it's all about the Space Weed.
... it's a greenhouse.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
No need to leave Earth to get to an arid, inhospitable wasteland devoid of human life
We can buzz around the moon in Ethanol-powered moon buggies!
Uh, not exactly. Hydroponics doesn't magically solve the nutrient problem, it just does it with something other than soil.
The enemies of Democracy are
Yes, but we need 20 more moon missions to bring enough moon rocks back for it.
They ARE out to get you simply because They are in it for themselves and they don't care about you.
Good point, mod up
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
-DwS
Why does so much of science come down to, we found something similar and we tried it, and it worked, therefore it will work elsewhere too. Anybody confused?
21st Century Renaissance Man
My understanding is that the moon is very much outside of the earths ability to protect life on it from any solar activity. Lacking a field to protect if from a Solar Flare and the harsh solar winds, I would venture that any life 'transplanted' there would be sterilized and elminated sooner or later.
Wasn't this even a concern for the men on the Apollo mission? I believe there were plans on how to address the the nation if everyone got killed by a solar flare that they could not hide from.
Space missions these days are well within the protection of the earth, and still very dangerious since some of the Alpha Particles and Solar Radiation still get through.
Still a worty thing to look into, since there are places elsewhere in the solar system that may be less dangerious and still lifeless.
i wonder what they'll be growing up there?
Have gnu, will travel.
Our oil issues have been artificially prolonged by lobbies that wish to remain the rich gatekeepers. This is just one of many solutions that we have. The problem is not lack of ability or imagination - it's pure politics and greed.
A better species would be on the moon, now.
It makes building on the moon pointless, since 10' of soil is more than adequate for growing the plants in space and the technical difficulties are so great that the difference between space and the moon isn't significant in comparison to getting the project done at all. Mind you, regardless of where it was built, the technical challenges and costs are so great that I don't even see this getting onto the drawing board of any serious space agency for another 150 years - possibly longer, given the funding problems of the American and Russian space agencies and the threatened collapse of scientific research in Britain. (You need money and you need researchers. The less you have of either, the longer it will take to bridge the gap.)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
So after eating a diet of salads for years, the Moon people progress to eating salad with lamb?
You are obviously planning to populate the moon with Greeks. (And they would go from being Hellenic to Selenic).
I am anarch of all I survey.
They are obviously trying to create the largest cannabis plantation in history!
All plant "generate their own food" through photosynthesis. But the only element you get through photosynthesis is carbon.
When people talk about plant nutrients, they mean the other elements. The most important is nitrogen, then phosphorus, then trace amounts of other stuff.
Some plants (peas, clover) can sort of get their nitrogen from the air, where it is in plenty supply (N2). They rely on symbiosis with soil bacteria which can bind the N2 from the air to NO3 (or NH4). This costs energy, which the plant supply in form of sugar from photosynthesis.
Organic farming make great uses of these plant in crop rotations, to avoid the need of mineral fertilizer. But it has a price in total production, so conventional farmers supply the nitrogen needed in suitable form for the plants.
Phosphorus and the trace elements cannot be extracted from the air, but significant amounts is nonetheless donated freely through the air, from industrial pollution. In fact, the success in combating air pollution is costing the farmers money, as they have to fertilize more.
For the Moon, I suspect supplying the trace elements and phosphorus will not be the most costly part of the operation. The big posts on the budget is the water, the carbon dioxide, and perhaps the nitrogen. Depending on what can be mined locally.
I would have never thought that Mexico would establish a presence on the moon before the United States. But who else would show up to harvest the crops?
Just last week, I saw an anime that dealt with exactly the same problem (plants on the moon).
They built big domes and tried to genetically engineer the plants to become more resilient and able to survive in the worst of conditions so the deforested earth could be afforested.
Of course, what happened in the end: one of the scientists made some mistake while messing with DNA, the plants became sentient and nearly eradicated mankind.
Giniro no kami no Agito
There is no sig.