Slashdot Mirror
Smartphones For Text SSH Use — Revisited
jfischet writes "Back in 2005 a Slashdot user asked this question and the responses were helpful — but I'd like to ask again to see what has changed in three years. I'd like to know what this community thinks is the best choice of smartphone for remotely administering Linux/UNIX boxes via SSH."
An iPhone with shell access seems the perfect match.
If you have a Palm OS device (i.e. a Treo), then pssh is still the way to go. Alas no, this solution hasn't changed since 2005...
Hmphf - frist posit?
Anyway, my solution is not a smartphone. I use an LG CU500, bluetooth tethered to a 12" G4 iBook. I get a real keyboard and AT&T (originally Cingular) gets me 3G in most places I go. Even on "edge" service, SSH is tolerable, 200ms-ish of latency.
When It Counts.
I still think the black berry was better for this as you did not have to hack it. I love my iphone but lets see what apps go up on the store. Also, can I please get copy and paste for the love of all that is good...
I am a republican not by choice, but rather by lack there of.
I've found the Sidekick 3's terminal app is pretty good because you get a pretty easy to type on keyboard. The font is readable and the terminal emulation is good. You also get a decently wide screen, not full 80 columns though. They also have good help for how to type in Ctrl-C, and other control sequences, etc,
Putty on a Sony-Ericsson M600i works ok for me, but most of the time, I'd keep the M600i in my pocket and use my Nokia N800 through Bluetooth.
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
When I read the headline, I thought "I wonder how long it's going to take for some fanboy to recommend the iPhone, despite the fact that it doesn't have a keyboard & is inferior for text entry compared to say a blackberry, or even some of the HTC monstrosities."
And there you were - right in the first post. Thank you for reaffirming my faith in fanboi nature.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
I use Pocket PuTTY. I don't know if it is the perfect answer, but it works for what I do.
I'd like a relatively cheap smartphone or mini-laptop (think EEE PC)- under $200 would be great- that can connect to secure wifi or a cell network (with a reasonable plan) that I can use for SSH purposes / internet when not on my computer. Any suggestions on the hardware side? (I'm not the OP.)
Care about privacy? Read this!
When I read the headline, I thought "I wonder how long it's going to take for some fanboy to recommend the iPhone, despite the fact that it doesn't have a keyboard & is inferior for text entry compared to say a blackberry, or even some of the HTC monstrosities."
The iPhone is fine for typing text. And the fully dynamic interface allows for some interesting possibilities for shell control, along with more room for a wider view on the screen. Penny Aracde of course, put it best... "If you find such things unpleasant, then I suggest you develop a taste for forced labor because by the year twenty-twenty all that sneer is going to get you is a slot in the underclass boiling corpses."
Don't be so dismissive until you see what terminal possibilities might arrive with the SDK.
And there you were - right in the first post. Thank you for reaffirming my faith in fanboi nature.
Don't your eyes scratch a lot with that wool you keep pulling over yourself?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I've had good results with the BlackBerry and MidpSSH. The terminal software is average, but having the ability to open a connection via your BlackBerry Enterprise Server is very useful. It's nice to not have to open up any Internet facing SSH ports while still being able to connect to any of your servers.
An interesting question, but honestly doesn't it seem like a good idea to wait a month or two longer and see what terminal kinds of apps come out of the iPhone SDK & app store? That's one area I was thinking we'd see several options arrive from, and while the iPhone may not have a "real" keyboard there is much that could be done with completion and a nice wide display.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I've been running one for close to 2 years for just this purpose.
Runs symbian putty perfectly, does 802.11 for when you can get to it, has an ok real web browser, and does real email (imap/pop/smtp).
And on the plus side, actually fits in a pocket, and can support real typing.
Pity nokia seem to consider it a dead-end product, and go out of their way to ignore it.
This is just a hunch but if you are the kind to remotely administer your systems, you would also be the kind to want an open phone platform. I'm guessing openmoko is right up your alley.
Money is the root of all evil?
Being able to SSH into a server, and then access mysql from the terminal is great. It's even more great when a customer wants to know how many orders you have outstanding for a certain product and you can type the necessary sql into the terminal and get the results.
I believe you can even use Telnet and FTP from MidpSSH on the blackberry. I think a major part of this debate is finding a device with a keyboard you are comfortable with. Being able to type quickly with minimal mistakes will make any software seem much better
pssh on the Palm Treo is the only thing that seems to work for me. Keep in mind I want to use Emacs via my smart phone, so I need Control and Meta (aka Alt) to work well. pssh uses the center key for these, with one click for Control and a second for Meta. It also has a very small font which allows me a 80 column wide view.
I have considered switching to a HTC phone such as the AT&T Tilt with Pocket PuTTY. Unfortunately, it seemed to hard to use for two reasons. One, I couldn't easily find a way to have a really small (but usable) fond. Two, I couldn't find a way to easily enter Control and Meta. I tried this mostly at the store, so if there are solutions to this, please let me know!
I have tried the iPhone with server side ssh script on a friends iPhone. Again the font and keyboard issues made it seem not too feasible. It seems like the font issue would be easy to fix, but the keyboard Control/Meta issue seems even harder to address on the iPhone. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm thinking of getting an iPhone 2.x in July... web surfing has become more important than my ssh access.
Well, I don't know if it's the best, since I haven't got much to compare it against, but my Treo650 with pssh works quite well. It is by no means a replacement for a laptop with a vpn client, but it nicely handles the "service X has died for some reason and needs to be manually restarted" and "minor configuration tweak Y required" type scenarios.
The screen size is pretty good for a phone (640x640 resolution too), and while the font in terminal emulation is small, it's mostly readable. There are a few key-combos that allow relatively painless acccess to things like ctrl-c.
Overall I would say that it's Good, but not Excellent. Definitely haven't regretted the purchase though (and SSH support was a big deciding factor).
I mostly use it for the occasional Debian apt-get update/upgrade and sometimes to run backups. In general, tasks that don't require lots of input are fine. The E61i's QWERTY keyboard is pretty good, it's mostly the limited screen that makes longer tasks trickier.
Any of the Nokia communicator series that has a qwerty board will do you well, from the 9300 all the way to the uber-expensive E90. Since they can run PuTTY, you're set, provided you don't mind the lag of the WWAN connection (if you ever sysadmined during the days of dial-up, this will be like second nature).
That said, the N770, N800, and N810, while good in theory, are botched by a horrible OS and though they can be tethered to any phone with bluetooth, you'll pull your hair out on the lack or low quality of keyboard.
][
Cherish. Live. Dream.
I would like to call it "WHIP-320" now, however ;) It has an ARM9-core at 200 MHz, 32MB RAM and 32MB flash, 802.11b/g and runs a 2.6 kernel.
I did not have to do everything to get it running a terminal (with SSH) though, most of the work was done by some french dudes at http://www.freephonie.org/doku/white:dev (yes, that's two URL's, they are related).
It's an awfully small screen, and you probably need (magnifying) glasses to get work done, but... it *is* an SSH terminal and can help out a lot if you encounter (simple) trouble - see it as a fallback machine.
Slashdot: stuff for news, nerds that matter, matter for news, stuff that nerd
I own one, and the "keyboard" is a bitch, especially in portrait mode, which is the mode you're stuck with in almost every application save "Safari". You can't use the larger landscape keyboard in SMS, Notepad, Email, etc.
The error rate is high because (big fuckin' surprise, just like everyone predicted) there's no tactile response. There's no caps lock or sticky shift. Only alpha characters are on the main keyboard; you have to go into sub-keyboards, and there's no way to return automatically after typing one punctuation letter. My Nokia 6820 had most of this down perfect.
This: "/etc/init.d/http restart" would take forever (each / and . would take three taps), and because of the error rate, you'd run the risk of triggering an account lock or ssh abuse prevention IP block just trying to get into your machine. God help you if your password is actually secure (ie alpha AND numeric with some punctuation or case changes.)
Sorry. No "real" QWERTY keyboard automatically disqualifies any device.
Please help metamoderate.
Buy a Neo FreeRunner phone and use a folding bluetooth keyboard. I'm using the developer's pre-release version of the FreeRunner (Neo GTA01) and I use my bt kbd with it all the time. The iGo folding keyboard fits in my front pocket.
:-(
You can run QTopia, the Openmoko software stack, or even a couple of (nearly) all python software stacks for the phone (Zad/Underground or zhone). All are based on Linux, of course.
The hardware list for the FreeRunner is:
* GSM phone
* only GPRS mobile internet
* WiFi
* GPS
* Full bluetooth (host & client)
* Full USB (host & client)
* micro SD slot
* 2 accelerometers
* 400 MHz cpu
* 128 MB sdram
* 256 MB flash (but of course you mostly use the 8GB microsd you put in it)
* 640x480 touchscreen (great resolution, but a little small at 2.8")
Behold the pinnacle of human achievement:
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone
i use the sidekick 3, which has a ssh application. it's been great and i'd recommend it to everyone who needs remote access to a box
Try the Motorola e6 Rokr. You can get a terminal hack from MotorolaFans.com. I also use the Nokia N800 as well.
When will we have a means to use the egde/3g connection to send text messages at internet bandwidth rates? Something like twitter and a twitter listener (for notifications) could replace text messages on the cheap...
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
Being my two phones of the past 3 years.
The E70 has a -real- keyboard, and runs Putty perfectly.
over the GPRS/3G network, or over WiFi, your choice.
The N95 has a regular phone pad, but I use a folding external bluetooth keyboard if I'm doing a lot of text.
and -every- feature of the N95 rocks. Putty runs perfectly, as always.
The iPhone is fine for typing text.
Yes, for short messages, typing in URLs, etc, it is fine.
What the submitter asked for is not fine general text entry, but the best choice, specifically for ssh. An iPhone (where every slash, period & ampersand is three taps away) is a poor choice for ssh text entry.
Don't be so dismissive until you see what terminal possibilities might arrive with the SDK.
Right, thanks - we're looking for a solution right now, not a possible solution that may come about one day.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
DS Lite, bitches. When you tire of SSH (and DSLinux + Boa as wearable web server), just VNC into your box through the coffeeshop's wireless. (I think it can play games too.)
Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
I think that is off-topic, but since you're interested I thought I'd let you know that many people (including me) already use IM software for BlackBerry over edge instead of SMS. Try JiveTalk, it costs about $20 but it's one of the most useful and cost-effective one-time purchases for your BB you'll make.
No matter how much you like your shiny iPhone, the poster cited SSH as his primary use case. It means his primary use case is typing shell commands. Which means a phone with a real keyboard will work best for him. Yes, you CAN type text relatively OK with the iPhone. No, that does NOT make it the best phone to type text on. Get a clue!
If the guy had asked for a smooth web browsing experience, recommending a (3G!) iPhone would have been understandable. But for SSH? Pure fanboy, or pure ignorance. Take your pick.
Oh, as for what phone to use - E70 is better if you want the regular phone form factor and have good eyes. But personally I would prefer E61i (with Blackberry form factor), as it has much larger screen (although slightly smaller resolution) which means text is easier to read. And it has more RAM, which means you can run more applications simultaneously. E.g. with E70 running a Java MIDlet and the browser simultaneously is going to be iffy because both are RAM-hungry applications. E61i is newer too, so it has a more recent version of the web browser.
I would much rather just have a small non smrt phone and a EeePC or similarly diminutive laptop with a actual albeit smallish keyboard.
actually I am happy to see you, however that is in fact a banana in my pocket.
This may be of use to someone, if not the poster. The Palm Centro (typically $100) is a fullblown Treo (Thankyou Apple for forcing Palm to cut price of a Treo by 75%) but more compact. It works well for me, is usable as a fairly decent speed modem with my laptop, can do ssh, a bluetooth keyboard is available (although I would just use my laptop) and has taken several hits with just minor scratches. Please also note that if you don't like your phones browser, many phones can accept the free mini-Opera browser, although PalmOS needs a (freebie) Java download to take full advantage of it.
Seriously, I'd have caved in and bought an iPhone by now were it not for my need for SSH with a decent keyboard. Oh, and that I want a less restricted development environment. Some of the Android phones should fit the bill, if you can hold out a few months.
I've tried to use SSH a few times on several phones over the last couple of years, and it never worked right. The big problem is latency. You hit a key on a keyboard and have to wait a second or two before it's echoed. This may be ok if all you want to do is restart a server, but for any serious work cell phones just don't cut it.
---- My GPS tracking site: http://instamapper.com/
I know this doesn't quite fit the request but MIDs are probably a good solution. Packing full Windows or Linux you can run Putty or SSH as you would from your desktop. Most MIDs are not phones Willcom in Japan has a MID phone so it won't be so long until the US has something similar. Then again, if you have a MID with good wireless coverage why would you need a phone?
You want fun, go home and buy a monkey!
Well, actually... If he were, say, going on vacation tomorrow, and needed to have the phone before he left, then he wouldn't have the option of waiting a month.
And that assumes that the limited pool of vendors who can officially work on the iPhone produce an SSH tool, or that he's willing to crack the iPhone for homebrew software which you would again have to assume was there, in a month. Maybe one of these is true, but neither of these assumptions is anywhere near certain. You also assume that whichever of these comes to fruition will incorporate a specific technology (The custom keyboard layout) which is just one possibility out of many.
Really, since his question is "What smartphone is best for system administration over SSH," not "Which smartphone has the capability to host the best version of SSH in the near future," you're basically side-stepping his actual question and the very real points brought up against the iPhone.
The custom-keyboard for SSH is a pretty clever idea, though, and seems like it would produce a pretty good SSH interface.
Slight correction: There is currently a jailbreak method to enable SSH for iPhone. Nothing official, though.
...when using your iPhone keyboard.
And a jailbroken (not necessary to "unlock" to "jailbreak") iPhone can indeed perform terminal functions, including ssh. Of course one may not wish to do that their phone, but the capability does exist.
As far as typing on the keyboard, I've had no problem, though I will admit that I'm not as fast as I used to be with Grafitti on the old Handspring PDA, but I don't believe that's because my tapping isn't nimble enough, just that it seems to second for the characters to pop up on the display. Haven't gotten fast enough to see if my outracing the buffer drops too many characters.
AZspot
...and I third it, though I actually use putty it on an E90, which has a more conventional keyboard (iinm) - albeit at a price. I also use a bluetooth keyboard (the Al Apple one, as it happens) when I want to use it more extensively - I'm told it works with all S60 phones that have bt (and I don't see why it wouldn't).
I've used it for logging into my various Linux systems (Ubuntu, Ubuntu server, Fedora Core) as well as OS X.
Works nicely enough on the E90 with the high resolution display (800 x 352 pixels) using small fonts. I'm not sure how well it works one smaller or lower resolution screens like on the E70 (or the iPhone, for that matter).
Max.
Presumably...could also be...Possibly....potentially better...possibility.... don't....what if they did add a model with a physical keyboard?...we do not know everything ...so much in the world may change...
Do you want to use a few more weasel words in your post? Qualify things a little more?
You'd make a great white house spokesperson.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
the nokia communicator 9300 (my provider was att) was pretty awesome, network-wise. the keyboard was acceptable. But the plans provided by att all kinda sucked, but it was the better phone for remote administration
If I had unlimited monies, I'd get a nokia e90 - it's sopposed to have a much nicer kb than the 9300.
I know it isn't a phone. But the N810 is a good choice for what you say you want to do.
To be honest, none of the phone/smartphone available in the market are suitable for serious administration. Sure you can get ssh client for almost all the smartphone oses but typing on any of the phones is a bitch. Don't even think about doing VI or Emacs as none of the phones has the full keyboard. Well except for running some quick scripts or checking the status of a server or so, its impractical.
As some of the posters already suggested, a small PC like EEE coupled with a 3G modem might be a much better idea though you can't carry it in your pocket.
There is
I use a blackberry 8820 with BES, and the rove mobile/idokorro ssh. With tmobile, for $65/mo, you can have unlimited GLOBAL roaming. Plus, use an 8820 and have 802.11g and gps. I use the BES (device to my-network AES crypto) to do IP-acling, and use ssh keys on the phone for access control, plus passphrases.
The blackberry now supports a smartcard bluetooth reader so you could fairly easily rig it to deauthenticate when removed from a short radius of your body. 88xx screen and keyboard are decent -- not perfect.
I'm looking forward to android phones with external bluetooth keyboards, and either a numberpad with context-sensitive predictive input, or a qwerty keypad. The rollup bluetooth keyboards seem pretty reasonable as input devices. Not sure how many more generations before going straight to a wearable -- 5 tops, maybe 1-2 for early adopters, I think.
so of all the handhelds on the market, the one that most definitely comes close to a reasonable portable ssh, imho has got to be the nokia n810. people pooh pooh maemo, but the thing will run debian and probably something like ubuntu mobile or something..
nevertheless.. the best -class- of device is still something like it or the iphone/ipod touch/ type devices, an openmoko, palms, blackberrys; something that is already halfway a computer. If it is itself a standard platform and a keyboard will at least pair with if it doesn't have its own, it's a reasonable tool to ssh with.. a lot different than 3 years ago.. was UMPC even coined back then?
Anyway, the n810 stands out among them only because of it's hardware keyboard, it's not perfect, but you can use it for much much longer than would be comfortable with a screen keyboard. As treo and blackberry users can probably tell you, there's nothing wrong with having a hardware keyboard when that's all you can have at the moment. hell there -is- a software keyboard (like on the 800s, and 770s), but I could never imagine using it. The n810's more of a computer all by itself than most anything that doesn't approach an ipod touch or something, and arguably still better for general computing because it ISN'T a PDA, it isn't a phone at all really, it's just a damn small UMPC with a choice of distros (at least for the brave,) and tons of apps.. Frankly I think maemo is pretty darn good considering it's limited audience, there's a LOT more ports, and even repos, than I had expected to find before I got one.
Yes, it's One More Device(tm) besides a phone, but some of us don't really care. And who cares if it's made for the general population or not, either; the question was about SSHing with a smartphone.. or handheld it seems is a better tool (term?), and what better for SSHing but a standard client? Yea, the iphone is a phone AND a shell prompt.. but people are fooling themselves about that soft keyboard thing, i mean really...
I wonder if there's even a comparable WME device.. I mean.. i wonder if it would be more ideal even if there was, simply because ssh would still be such a foreign program on that platform..
oh well, that's my $0.02
-m
US$0.02++
The Neo 1973 (www.openmoko.com) does this ok and when the Freerunner comes out it should be the perfect phone for this purpose.
> The N95 has a regular phone pad, but I use a folding external bluetooth keyboard if I'm doing a lot of text.
I guess you're referring to the Nokia keyboard, but the Apple bluetooth keyboard works fine with the N95 too, I'm told (I use it on an E90), and I think there's even one or two other options in that respect.
It's nice to have the option of taking a keyboard along when you know you might need it, and yet not have to when you think you won't (but be able to use the phone's instead if you're wrong). I tend not to need it much, actually, since the E90's keyboard it quite servicable.
Max.
...and S60 phones have had such software for a few years. There are several such applications, but I've recently started using software called Nimbuzz and does Skype, Googl Talk, AOL Instant Messenger, Windows Live Messenger, Yahoo! Instant Messenger, Japper, MySpace, and Facebook. Those are the ones listed on their web site, but the app's preferences also lists, "Hyves", and ICQ.
..and the price is right.
It does VoIP too - I tried this using MSN and Skype (over wifi on my E90), and it worked well enough.
Max.
ssia
Max.
I use Nokia E70 with putty. While E70 has full keyboard, the layout of they keys on both side of the display means you can hold the phone with both hands and type away comfortably even while traveling on a bumpy road. Though I would have appreciated a bigger screen, E70 is more than enough for a quick ssh session while you are traveling. You can connect via GPRS and WiFi, and that's an added advantage.
raj
Sarovar.org Hosting for open source projects in Indi
Blackberry + Rove Mobile's Mobile SSH.
Not free or open source unfortunately but has some very nice features including tn5250 support which is great for connecting to our old and groaning AS/400 which needs a lot of tlc.
Works over Blackberry MDS as well so no need to open extra ports in the firewalls.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Has a keyboard, although it doesn't have some of the control keys on, but I haven't done anything complicated enough to need them yet, just basic SSH access for simple commands.
I've also gotten VNC to work on it, but it's kind of a pain to use with a small screen, but it is possible. nice thing with t-mobile is the data plan is only $20/month.
There are a couple of logical fallacies with your argument.
You are betting on some application coming out in a month, or less then a month. Your argument seems to be that once this application is developed, tested, etc. in less then a month, it will *instantly* be the best ssh application. That's rubbish.
You state that some unknown improvement made to the iphone, at some unkown point in the future might address all the issues theOP might have with the iPhone, and the OP should therefore wait with making *any* decision until such time as the IPhone has this improvement. This logic would extend to saying "and if the next model doesn't have it, wait some more". Thats ridiculous.
And, on the basis of this deeply flawed argument, you call the OP a "hater". That's playground logic. What are you, 12? Does your daddy know you are using his PC?
oh, and if you are still reading, please make sure you realise I am not saying *anything* about any of apple's products (just want to make sure you dont start changing the subject and calling me an apple hater as well).
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
I use the Nokia E90 for similar purposes. It features a 800x352 pixel display and you can run a version of PuTTY on it. Depending on the font size you're willing to use, it gives you a terminal size from 88x23 characters up to 160x50 with the smallest font. Combine that with the vertical split patch for GNU screen and you have a mighty useful terminal for system administration. It works quite well for me.
I don't know what smartphones will let you plug one in, but you're going to at least want a laptop-sized keyboard.
I actually like typing with this keyboard (wired version), and it's small enough to fit comfortably in a backpack, pretty much no weight to it at all. The wireless version could probably fit in a briefcase, and it speaks bluetooth, so I'm sure there's a phone out there that will work with it.
The other possibility is to ask why you want a smartphone, and not a real laptop -- not like it costs more than the iPhone anyway.
The iPhone is nice, but you can't beat a real keyboard, no matter what you're typing on.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
I use the HTC Mogul (hate Sprint, but *shrug*.)
Challenges:
No escape key.
No builting software for remapping buttons to other keys.
Pocket Putty doesn't support arrow keys correctly, initially.
Solutions:
Bind an escape key using a button remapping tool.
Set these, for whatever your most important connection is:
HKCU\Software\SimonTathan\PuTTY\Sessions\SessionName\NoApplicationKeys: 1
HKCU\Software\SimonTathan\PuTTY\Sessions\SessionName\NoApplicationCursors: 1
After that, the device is pretty usable over ssh. Not perfect, but it's a good start.
... I actually *had* heard of this phone. I REALLY wanted one when they came out, but I couldn't buy one because AT&T/Cingular won't carry them. I think they won't even support them. Unfortunately the area I live in only has acceptable coverage with AT&T/Cingular, so riddle me this:
HTF do I get a decent smartphone with AT&T/Cingular?
I've been using various PalmPilot's with serial cables and IR modems to telnet and ssh into unix boxes for years. The pssh PalmOS application on a Treo or Centro cell phone works just fine, although the font is microscopic for an 80 character terminal.
I guess a lot has changed since 2005. The i600 is just as portable as any other candybar phone, too.
Here's my setup for when I need to do remote support while on the move:
HTC Kaiser (also sold as HTC P4550, TyTN II & AT&T Tilt 8925)
The phone has a slide-out keyboard which is quite useable and a 240 x 320-pixel, 2.8-inch display. Bluetooth and wifi (802.11g). The TyTN II is a quad-band handset with 3G and HSDPA and it also has GPS + Tomtom satnav!
PockeTTY
VNC
WM6 Remote Desktop (RDP)- can be downloaded from here if not pre-installed.
Roll-up fabric bluetooth keyboard
More phone info in the user forums and wiki:
http://www.htcforums.com/kaiser-tilt-tytn-p4550-f13/
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=377
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Kaiser
AT&ROFLMAO
I have tested few ways to work with mobile phone, ssh and keyboard.
I carry small Nokia E65 phone with WLAN (WiFi for some of you) and 3G. There are free PuTTY for Symbian S60 software.
For typing phone has just basic 12 number keys with # and *. And there you can not use predictive input but just press appropiate key as many times until you get correct letter. And it is very annoying...
So then I bought Freedom Mini keyboard. It is credit card sized bluetooth keyboard (but thickier) for mobile phones. Quality of that keyboard is very bad. Not all keys work without pressing them many times. Or you may get neighbor button symbol out from another button. I opened keyboard and tried to fix bubble-switches into correct place. But I wasn't able to fix it. So now I don't have much use for that keyboard. Also it was missing some Scandinavian characters even I was able to fake it to be a Finnish keyboard.
Same keyboard worked also with Nokia N800 internet tablet (not a mobile phone even it has VoIP). But same keyboard problems were there too.
Some of my friends have Nokia E61 which is BlackBerry clone from Nokia. PuTTY SSH works there too and friends do remote management and IRC (Internet Relay Chat) with that phone. It has also a WLAN, 3G and email.
I don't like that kind of mobile phone - it is too wide because of qwerty keyboard. But it seems to be very good for typing while at mobile.
For people who would like to have full scale qwerty keyboard could try Apple Bluetooth keyboard. It works with my phone, internet tablet and multimedia PC. But it's not easy to carry. Another solution could be Nokia foldable keyboard. There are some other brands too who make similair bluetooth keyboards. Those have full-size qwerty keys and those are fast for typing.
Does anybody have experience about Logitech diNovo Mini keyboard? It should work with mobile phones and computers. Is it good and fast for typing? And how much space does it take on your pocket? How about weight?
Simple check list:
- Does the phone use a standard type of wireless signal that your carrier supports (e.g. GSM900)?
- Can you find instructions on how to set up GPRS on Cingular?
- Do you want to pay the full, unsubsidized fee for the phone?
If you can answer yes to all three of the above, you've got a winner.I've been using Nokia Communicators with PuTTY for this for a few years. They are a little on the bulky side, but I think it's a small price for this level of functionality on the move.
The 9300i is brilliant, but lacks 3G and is a little bit slow/glitchy. I now use an E90 which is much better in almost every way; faster, two exceptional displays, solid as a rock, slicker interface, cameras (for those who want them), great Exchange integration (the best I've found on any smartphone, including windows mobile devices), superb Office integration (designed to work perfectly on a (relatively) small screen), greate multimedia support, excellent WiFi reception, very robust construction (better than the 9300i, and that survived unscathed two years of heavy use and being carried in my pocket) and a whole host of other apps with varying levels of usefulness (I'm not sure I really need to use my phone to scan barcodes, but you might).
The only criticisms of the E90 compared with the 9300i are that it does suffer from having a slightly less useful keyboard (some characters you would want direct access to you have to access through multiple keystrokes, but it's no big deal) and (very surprisingly) it doesn't easily support VPN clients.
That said, both keyboards are surprisingly usable for light to medium work (for serious work, you'd still want to invest in a portable bluetooth keyboard) and both have excellent suites of software (both from Nokia and third-parties).
Oh, and they are both excellent as phones (voice, video and SMS). I don't say that as a throwaway comment; my wife is a gadget fiend and has owned (literally) dozens of smart phones from pretty much every phone supplier and from every class (she is a major contributor to a fairly major PDA/smartphone website), and it is amazing how many smart phones just don't work as phones. I won't name and shame, but many seem to get confused if you're in the middle of something when a call comes through or just drop calls in the middle of a conversation. One was unusable as a phone because it had utterly broken echo-cancelling (it was underpowered and couldn't handle it quickly enough). It's like the "phone" part of smartphone is an afterthought. I've not found that with the Nokia's I've used - they are excellent phones as well as doing the mobile computing better than any other smartphone I've used.
I think that (for some) the size could be a deal breaker. Equally, if you're looking for an iPhone (or a touch screen, for that matter), this just doesn't offer what you want. For many others, however, it is the perfect smartphone. I think anyone looking at SSH on the move should take a look at this and find out which camp you fall into.
I have been using a Motorola Q Phone with zaTelnet Professional for my SSH needs. It works like a champ! I have very large hands and have a hard time typing on a laptop keyboard but the Q Phone's keyboard provides for surprisingly easy typing.
At work, we're trying out a number of different mobile phones for our on-call phones. My list of necessary features includes also SSH. We're looking at the Tilt and the latest generation of the Q Phone. I have to say the Tilt's only nice feature is the wider screen. Typing on that thing sucks so that's the trade off.
If you need a wide screen for output, you might need a Tilt or Tilt-like device. If not, I'd go with something like the Q Phone.
and -every- feature of the N95 rocks. Gotta agree! The folding keyboard accessory is really req'd when much text at all is the norm. Even for tricky passwords, really.
My 1st gen. n95 has been much improved in the last year by a steady stream of firmware updates, and other Nokia software, like Maps. It is now twice the phone it was when new, and battery life & (limited) multi-tasking are now realistic. The Nokia n95 (and now n96) are a joy. It is my *only* GPS/video/camera/mobile-www-browser-w-RSS/SIP-client-over-802.11, etc. (operamini browser is best for RSS)
I carry the folding keyboard in my backpack if I think I'll need that too.
Been meaning to get some battery spares. Mine has died too many times while 'Sport Tracking' (Turn on the GPS and go ride a bike, jog, etc.; it saves the ride to a calendar, and you can upload it to a cool Nokia webservice w/ cool GUI and see your ride/history in a gmap. http://sportstracker.nokia.com/
It is soooo cool. And so realistic to SSH, etc. I am afraid I haven't secured the n95 enough to be configured so. A real concern, really. I'm still investigating encryption options, but what I see is light-weight so far. Really light-weight.
You can't be ahead of the curve, if you're stuck in a loop.
I have a nokia 6120c . It 's a smartphone in disguise. Looks like a standard phone, no large screen, but it runs symbian, and hence putty. http://s2putty.sourceforge.net/ It's bearable, but I wouldn't want to use it for much . One problem I find is that the connection breaks if unused for a short time.
/usr/share/dict/words)
I use ssh
a) to cheat on crosswords (i wrote an alias for grep
b) to confuse friends by making my computer play james brown - i feel good by itself (again, another alias)
Certainly on the screen I have, you wouldn't want to much with it seriously. I pay £5 / month for unlimited data (web browser and email more useful than ssh), and then, like everybody else, pay a ridiculous mount for 150 byte text messages. Crazy, huh?
Oh, and you have an ordinary phone keypad, here is the list of passwords (length >=5 ) that you can type quickly (thanks again grep): adapt,gamma,madam,magma,pajama,pawpaw
I have had both E90 and iPhone. iPhone is superior to E90 in most respects, but for SSH and typing in documents E90 wins hands down. Keyboard is excellent (the best there is in any smartphone), screen is huge (800 x 480). Only if it would run Linux....
Vaadin - the best open source framework for building web applications in Java - no plug
Buy one and put the AT&T SIM card in the phone?
The Openmoko platform could be an option: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page
I think that the E61 would be much better since the E62 has no wifi. Symbian putty works pretty well though, and they can cram a lot of characters onto the screen in a tiny font that is surprisingly readable. I've only used it to restart a hung service here and there. No PKI login, though, and the VPN stuff on the phone seems like some serious black magic shit so I haven't been able to use that.
The slowness I mentioned is of the overall interface. It takes about 5 seconds to open a freaking SMS. It's pretty pathetic.
It has a full QWERTY keyboard and an 800x352 screen, plus WiFi and (if you're in Europe) 3G. It still folds up into a reasonably small size and looks like a normal phone. It also has tons of other software and features.
Mobile ssh from idokorro, they also do a mobile desktop product which is handy in emergencies. I think there is also a version for other platforms but the bberry 8820 has a great keyboard.
iPhone is superior to E90 in most respects
I have to disagree with that.
Just the fact that the E90 can show you an 800 pixel wide web browser (basically the same browser as on the iPhone) makes the web browsing experience so much better, whereas with the iPhone you have to rely on gimmicks. The keyboard is great not just for ssh, but for all the other things people do with phones.
The E90 has GPS, 3.5G, and a 3 Mpixel camera. Google Maps on it uses the GPS, in addition to Nokia's own mapping and navigation application. It can record 640x480 MPEG4 video. It synchronizes over the air and isn't tied to any desktop (unless you want it to). You can run ShoZu, photoblogging, and talk/chat software for any service you like. It does geotagging for your photos. It supports stereo headphones. You can use the E90 as a high speed modem, or even configure it as a WiFi access point to share the 3.5G connection. It has an excellent audio and video player that supports many more formats than Apple. And there is tons more third party software.
Nokia's user interface is dull and ugly, but as a smart phone, the iPhone isn't even in the same league.
Me too, except I have never worked out how send function keys when I am in mc, say.
Apple is the only correct option, and every reason why we dont like the iPhone
is simply a minor complaint that you guys go over and tell us how stoopid we are
get this
we dont want your fucking iPhone
fuck off People who need to press return when they get to the end of a line, instead of letting the text wrap around, and who have to press return at the end of a sentence instead of using punctuation.. are pretty stoopid. I'm glad you've mastered the use of capitals. I don't like iPhones either tbh, but why the attitude about it? Just don't buy one.
which is totally what she said
My dell axim is great with a blue tooth keyboard and any cafe that has WiFi. Open Putty i think is my ssh program- which is buggy. I (~drool~) want to upgrade to an HTC shift asap! (or an Advantage X701)
I have a Palm T|X and occasionally have to use TuSSH to administer my servers. The big problem is that certain characters are not readily accessible on the handheld. The most serious one for sysadmin work is the backquote` which I've never found a way to produce in PalmOS 5.2
I've used a few of them of them over the past few years:
1) Treo 650. It's not a bad little device, but at least the 650's screen resolution is so low that if you want an 80-column wide output window, your font is pretty darned small. The more modern versions may fix this a little, I haven't tried them.
2) Blackberries. I've used both the 8700 and the 8800, and both aren't bad. The 8700, don't bother trying to get a 80-column screen out of it, the 8800, even though the horizontal resolution is no better than the Treo, seems to have chosen a font that makes a little better use of it.
3) iPhone. The screen blows anything else away, and the Mobile Terminal I most recently played with has some of the more unixy keys bound to gestures in the output window area-- but it's still annoying to send an escape, or anything with a bucky-key involved. Note also that the iPhone requires hacking to put a terminal on it at all, at least for another month or so.
My carry-around solution is a Blackberry 8800, which works okay when I'm not on-call as I don't have to do a whole lot of it. The weeks that I am on-call, I bring a laptop and leave it in the car trunk, as none of them are really GOOD solutions yet.
the problem comes in typing on the crappy little keypads.
but a nokia 8xx series tablet should take care of that for you.
I personally use a nokia n80ie. It's tough to type on, but it has wifi.
They're using their grammar skills there.
Wow, thanks for the press'n drag trick!
Anything with windows mobile running, because you can run PuTTy, some HTC products even have keyboards on them
The best I've found so far for my Treo 650 is pssh, which works quite acceptably in a pinch. I prefer my good old laptop though.
-- I am. Therefore, I think!
I bought my Nokia E61 (which is very similar) from an importer I found through froogle two years ago, and the phone has worked flawlessly on T-Mobile from day 1 (when it automatically downloaded the configuration from the network and I was up and running). It worked very well with their Blackberry Email server when I had that service, and it has auto-configured beautifully on every network it's been on, including Softbank's UMTS 3G network in Japan (with a rented USIM, no less).
I really don't think you have anything to worry about.
True science means that when you re-evaluate the evidence, you re-evaluate your faith.
Also a Palm (mine is T3) + pssh setup here.
But in addition, I have a full-sized foldable keyboard (mine uses the connector, but they also exist with Bluetooth too).
SDIO card for Wifi (when available, otherwise bluetooth to an extremely old GPRS enabled phone).
The only regret I have is that pssh doesn't use the multi tasking features of PalmOS 5. When you exit the program, the program terminates and the connection is shut. (You can't switch between programs). Unlike for example the music players or some of the internet messaging software which all *DO* still run in the background even if you switch to another app.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
There are several foldable keyboards from stowaway. Get a full sized one (the ones that fold in 4 parts, not the clamshell ones).
Some even come with bluetooth (thus could be re-used with your next device, as long as its not something with restricted bluetooth like an iPhone).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
http://www.pocketputty.net/ We all hate windows, but putty is a great utility and there is a port specifically for Windows Mobile. The verizon XV6800 would be a great phone for this, although, as some have said, you'll pay more than you want to for a data service.
when putty is connected (and up to date) use the key left to the thumb-key. There is a menu there, which has send -> special key -> tab. it's a bit far, but it's there. In this menu there is also a way to change the font.
I use a public-key without a passprase so I don't need to type a password.
New things are always on the horizon
Nokia E90 and PuTTY here. 'Huge' screen, full keyboard and WLAN capability. I also run a VNC viewer on it...slightly painful to use (have to jump through hoops to do things like right click), but does the job.
[Happosai]
Yes, but the Nokia E70 got a bad review. Was that review written by an iPhone owner, or is it true that the sound quality is poor? There are some of us who actually use our cellular phones to make phone calls. *grin*
The 3G Blackberry Bold will be out soon; I found an SSH client for it - and you don't have to "jailbreak" the phone to use it, like you do an otherwise featureless iPhone.
There may be other software solutions for the Blackberry.
I'm going to guess this has been posted 100+ times already. But...
The HTC Kaiser, or the Wizard, or the TyTN would all make great remote admin machines. Real keyboard, slightly larger than a modern phone, but smaller than my first mobile. Windows CE, so a lot of applications out, everything (including: VNC + SSH tunneling, emacs, javac (with some playing) and Quake 2). They keyboard (on the Kaiser) combined with the Fn-Tab combo (brings up a symbo pad) makes coding on it doable, and not completely unpleasent.
If you are after cheap, and don't mind EDGE or GPRS then the Wizard would be idea. At 2+ years old it should be on E-Bay for pennies.
If you want modern then the Kaiser would be good, but it has issues playing video (I take it you want more than just a putty session.
If you really do just want a putty session then any phone with IR and can act like a modem and a Psion Revo.
A few final thoughts: The Kaiser is a little crippled in the video playing department.
The HTC Diamond is round the corner, you might wish to wait for that.
ActiveSync hates you, but don't feel alone, it hates eveyone else as well.
Wow, I should not post when knackered.
Use (a jailbroken) iPhone.
I have an iPhone and love it. My brother has an E70 and loves it (when it works).
The link above is so outdated and filled with inaccuracies it's embarrassing.
I've used it several times to admin servers. Even over GPRS it works well enough. Obviously it works better over WiFi.
The 8830 is an excellent phone and data device. The only issue I have noticed is the "WiFi Browser" doesn't properly handle unclosed OPTION tags in SELECTs. The "Internet Browser" works fine, though. I don't know why they have both browsers included.
Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
This is what I use. An Asus EeePC with a Sierra Wireless 881U via AT&T. I get 3G speeds where I am and using SSH natively. I did have to push the system up to Kubuntu 8.04, but EeeUser at http://eeeuser.com/ has some excellent guides on it.
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
I use a Nokia N810 internet tablet paired with my crappy 3G Samsung phone. SSH with a full slide-out keyboard is actually pretty neat. If a smartphone isn't a full-on requirement, I'd recommend a good, reliable phone coupled with the N810.
There are only 10 kinds of people in this world... those who understand binary and those who don't
I've never used it, but zaTunnel claims to be a "SSH Tunnel and Portforwarding client for Smartphones and Pocket PC"
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
The SDK will be released in much less than a month and, if you watched the keynote, you've seen how quickly programs can be written. In one month, there will be a boatload of quality programs.
My dream phone would have the following:
* Some kind of qwerty keyboard, with commonly used bash shell characters in easy to reach places. Or at least an easy way to map the escape key and other essentials.
* Ssh-agent and support for public key authentication.
* Direct terminal input. This business of having to escape to a Java input window and then select "OK" on the phone's menu . . . well, it sucks.
* 80x24 terminal. I suppose the resolution on the phone will need to be at least 320 pixels wide for this?
* Must not be a Windows smartphone. I had one of these once and it was horrible to use.
If anyone knows of a phone that can do all this I'd like to know about it.
Well, actually... If he were, say, going on vacation tomorrow, and needed to have the phone before he left, then he wouldn't have the option of waiting a month.
I imagine he would have stated a critical timeframe such as that, or not been stupid enough to send something he needed to know in a day to Ask Slashdot (that's what Twitter is for I imagine).
And that assumes that the limited pool of vendors who can officially work on the iPhone produce an SSH tool,
Right now there is no limit to the number of people that can develop apps, as a terminal could easily be developed on the simulator. When the SDK comes out of Beta there will also be no limit to the number of people that can deploy apps on phones using the SDK.
Really, since his question is "What smartphone is best for system administration over SSH," not "Which smartphone has the capability to host the best version of SSH in the near future," you're basically side-stepping his actual question and the very real points brought up against the iPhone.
So you're saying if ONE MINUTE after his post had come out an SSH client had arrived for the iPhone, or came say tomorrow, that would be totally irrelevant to the question.
Right....
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Depending on what you'd like to do, a smartphone may be the perfect square peg for your round hole.
> for remotely administering Linux/UNIX boxes via SSH
What does remotely administering mean for you?
Lightweight (examples, not exhaustive)
* Killing/restarting processes when the pager goes off
* Acknowledging alerts/pages from your monitoring system
* Minor troubleshooting in a jam
* Simple edits to a config file before a kill/restart
Not-so-lightweight
* Involved troubleshooting
* Large-scale edits
* Many user, system, filesystem modifications at once
Heavyweight
* Postmortem analysis
* Adding users, filesystems
* Creating/Developing anything
* Day-to-day administration tasks
If you're doing only lightweight (and maybe some not-so-lightweight) activities say when you're on call and don't want to drive home from the movie/dinner/play/bar/club then most any smartphone with most any keyboard will meet your needs. Will your frustration level rise as task complexity rises, YES. But this should only be an occasional thing. If you need this regularly then you need to stabilize your infrastructure... or choose another career where your skills are stronger. If it's going to be needed frequently in the short term (while say waiting on a vendor fix) then optimize for remote use while at your desk with some aliases or scripts.
If you're wanting fire up a full screen editor (vi, emacs) then you're moving into heavyweight tasks and/or wasting time massaging your editor bias ego. Get over it, stop whining, and learn ed. It was designed for an even more limited environment than your smartphone and works everywhere. Sorry, subshells not included. You can find your favorite metakeys when you get back to your desk.
If you're doing heavy stuff, use heavy equipment, that's what it was designed for. You don't move pallets with a spatula, you use a forklift. Maybe try a small laptop and cellular data, it's the happy medium pallet-jack equivalent.
I've used a regular palm, 3 different treos, and even a samsung a900. They all got the job done. Today I use an iPhone and webshell. Webshell isn't the simplest client to set up and has its issues. But, it also has a ton of flexibility with multiple virtual keyboards and has added some pretty cool gesture support. It's the least frustrating of all the solutions I've used over the years.
Don't forget to live while you're wandering the world smartphone in hand, reading 8 different email accounts, all the very fulfilling blogs, and loading your favorite emacs extension while rescuing your company's web site. There are some pretty cool other things like outside, physical activity, girls/boys, vice & stuff.... smartphone not required.
Two years ago I made the mistake of buying a Sidekick.. never again. Turns out they don't sell the same apps in different markets! The terminal app is NOT available in the UK but it wasn't possible to find that out before purchase. So I had a glorified paperweight on contract for a year and got a proper phone instead.
I've been using my smart phone(s) for SSH access for the last couple years. I run a small business and have very demanding customers (who pay a substantial amount for support), and therefore need quick response. The smart phone has let me do that a couple ways:
First and more importantly it means I'm always connected to my email and voicemail. Being able to respond quickly with a call or email is a big benefit, and any smart phone can do that level of support reasonably well. You didn't ask about that, but I mention it because I feel it is the most important benefit.
Now, back to the phones with SSH. I've used two of them extensively. I had an Cingular 8125 (HTC Windows Mobile) for about 20 months and I now have a Blackberry Curve (8130) which I've used for the last 4 months.
During the 20 months I had a half dozen or so real occasions to use the SSH support. I used it for file transfers, I used it to examine and fix clients machines, and I used it to do other administrative tasks that were only available from my site. That's not often, but for those moments when it was needed it saved me a lot of time and was worth the cost of the data service.
The HTC phone had the better keyboard. On unix systems we use the special characters too much, and getting to those on the BlackBerry is a difficult. Both keyboards are too small to do anything quickly with them. In both cases the screen is really small. The connection is slow (neither unit is 3G), but for a text input it's OK. It reminds me of the old 9600 baud terminals on a main frame. The bottom line is that for occasional access to important information/applications it works just fine. It is in no way useful for extended work. If you a task takes more than 5 minutes you'd be better off finding WiFi at a Starbucks and using your laptop.
My clients are primarily in California and in major cities or along major highways, so that's where I have the most coverage experience. I've found the data service is fine everywhere I go. I use the email, web, etc. very regularly so I tend to notice the loss of data service.
My opinion is that smart phones work OK for occasional emergency SSH access. The keyboard limitations are the weakest link, but given the rest of the constraints on speed, screen, etc. I'm not sure it matters. As long as you're only doing this for short periods in case of a emergency it's a good answer.
A corollary is that if you have something you need to do regularly using the keyboard and SSH on your smart phone, you really ought to set up a web page. The web interfaces on the phones are better and it allows you to control the presentation. It also works better on a wider variety of phones.
True, true SpzToid, the -only- problem I have with the N95 is leaving the thing on with the GPS going, or something. Sure battery death within 8 hours. If I just run the basic stuff, it's just like any other phone, battery lasts 2 or 3 days.
I'm using a third-party bluetooth keyboard that I got for around 50 bucks, it's fine.
This model, (iGo Stowaway)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CDHWQA/ref=dp_cp_ob_title_1
The sportstracker is way cool, although the GPS sometimes takes a while to get initialized.
Since we're still waiting for the SDK,
The iPhone SDK has been out for months. Anyone can download it and work on apps, today. A more limited number of people are able to deploy on their own phones, today.
After June that number will be much larger, and things people have developed will be able to be downloaded by anyone. June, of this year.
What you are also discounting is third party development has been going on ever since the iPhone launch, from jailbreak developers. The API's they have been using are very similar to the SDK API's. So it's not like there are not people around that already have substantial iPhone programming knowledge.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I am a very, very heavy Emacs user to the point where I still honestly prefer it for straight typing over most of the modern development platforms like Eclipse, XCode, and so on and so forth. I've been using it for over two decades now! I also greatly prefer using the keyboard for almost anything over using the mouse.
I'm telling you I see a very real possibility that you could control Emacs (or the shell) with the iPhone in a manner that would work reasonably. I'm not saying anything about the demise of Unix, Im talking about the rise of the touchscreen as a viable input mechanism, even for the most heavily keyboard oriented things.
I'm also not talking about the demise of traditional keyboards, though that quote is applicable there to some extent when we get practical keyboards that the computer can change the keycaps on (like the Optimus).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
SOMEONE needs to say something about Apple's products, so I will.
Oh yeah, like you're totally counterculture on Slashdot!!
The general consensus in business (not just computer business, business as a whole) is that Apple Inc has made a killing by taking pre-existing, commodity products, packaging them nicely, advertising well, charging a lot of $$, and appealing to one's personal snobbery.
That's the consensus from Haterville, Mayor Hater.
At least part of that is. For you see, most of us realize that what Apple does is mostly aking pre-existing, commodity products, packaging them nicely, advertising well. That part you got right. But there it ends - they charge something of a premium but not much beyond existing products. And people do not use them out of "snobbery", they use them because they like how they work! That's the part you got so very, very wrong and why you will never understand the rise of Apple.
For the rest of us, I'll take a barebones PC and a Free OS any day of the week--the rest of you Mac Lovers can go sit over there, yes yes I know you love your computer, Mac Fanboi, but I've got code to write and bills to pay.
So do I - I just prefer to do all that on a Mac. And what we're doing is not so different since I prefer to use many Free programs to work with... (like Emacs), and write shell script in Bash, and use MySQL and Apache....
I support the FSF and donate to them every year. But I also support excellence in software design and so I use Apple products, for they too deserve donation for good work.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The simulator is not quite the same thing as the actual iPhone in terms of development. It replicates the iPhone browser environment, which is a subtly different proposition. And while yes, web-based SSH terminals can run in the iPhone browser, that's substantially different than having a genuine native SSH client. For one thing, it requires server-side installation that someone may not have the authority or desire to do.
As for the "When the SDK comes out of beta," well, again we hit a fairly nebulous future target date.
As for the "ONE MINUTE" thing, seriously, stop being a jackass. No amount of ridicule is going to equal out to the actual point brought up, which is that right now, I could buy a Nokia e70 and have SSH natively right now, whereas if I walked into a store and bought an iPhone, I would have to configure my server with webshell or similar to have the same functionality.
I'm not hating on the iPhone, but I am hating on a mentality that interprets valid problems and potential issues as "haterism."
In "much less than a month" means how many days, exactly? And how many days past that are we expecting someone to release this app?
And then what? How long to get through Apple to the App Store? Will they even approve it if it maintains a persistent connection? (I know I'd want to pop between a running SSH and a browser, and I can't think of any other way to maintain state.)
Oh, and on top of that -- how much will it cost? Apple charges to be able to publish your app, even if said app is free, which seems designed to encourage people to develop apps that cost money, or that have embedded ads.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Buy an unlocked one on newegg or ebay, pop your SIM card in. If( GSM && Unlocked or Locked to ATT && Quad band or 850/1900 mhz) Then it will work.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
so far, my favorites are the sidekick LX, nokia E90, oqo model 2, and blackberry curve.
the sidekick lx is comfortable and fast to type on. it feels good in your hands and you type non alpha numerics easily. if not for edge lag, you can forget your even using one. LX has a nice screen and plenty of room for 80 characters across with a clear font. dead as a development platform, because microsoft bought danger, so the only third party apps available are in its software catalog, but if you can ssh to a real computer that might not matter.
the nokia E90 is just sweet if you can afford one. nice keyboard, s2puttys a nice ssh client. overall its better than a sidekick but expensive and not supported in the US.
oqo2 model 2 really is a laptop and probably overkill. but it is the fastest and most comfortable of these devices. in the US you get ev-do so its a high speed connection anytime. fits in jeans pockets.
the curve has a crappy keyboard and nothing on the sides to wrap your hands around so it cramps your fingers, but you do get used to it. rove mobile ssh is expensive but mostly workable. the combination is more pleasant than a treo with p2ssh. midpssh is a free app that runs on the curve, but its not ready for use yet.
havent tried any windows mobile phones.
if you can, wait for android.
The simulator is not quite the same thing as the actual iPhone in terms of development. It replicates the iPhone browser environment, which is a subtly different proposition.
I've been developing applications on the iPhone for a few months now, using the SDK that anyone can download. Would you mind telling me what exactly you meant here?
You create views. You display/edit text. You can use the keyboard(s) (there are multiple to choose from). You can use the network.
There are indeed a few things the simulator cannot do, like use the location framework or detect accelerometer input. But anything you need to develop a terminal app is all there, and the simulator is running your iPhone NATIVE app in order to run and debug. The only real difference is performance between the simulator and device, at least as far as testing a terminal would go.
And while yes, web-based SSH terminals can run in the iPhone browser, that's substantially different than having a genuine native SSH client. For one thing, it requires server-side installation that someone may not have the authority or desire to do.
I'm not talking SSH within a browser, which to my mind is utterly impractical for many reasons beyond the one you mentioned. I'm talking a native SSH/Terminal kind of application. The need for it is such, I'd work on one myself if I didn't think there would be fifteen the day the app store opened!!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Re: The simulator, I bow to your superior experience. I was going off of googled information.
I guess I'm just saying that, regardless of how many there are when the app store opens, it is reasonable and valid to point out that, right now, there's not really a workable solution in place. I think an accurate statement right now would be that the iPhone has the capability to host a first class SSH client, but currently doesn't have one.
I guess I'm just saying that, regardless of how many there are when the app store opens, it is reasonable and valid to point out that, right now, there's not really a workable solution in place.
Even that's not fully accurate, since there are jailbroken ssh terminals to be had, and most people I know with an iPhone interested in SSH at all use that (I've not tried jailbreaking it myself yet I wanted to leave it clear for official development). Generally I would not point out hacks like that as a viable alternative but it's so easy to jailbreak and then install what you like, I would consider that worth a mention.
I'm a bit surprised no-one has talked about how those are to use... I've not tried it myself so I can't really comment on suitability.
But again, while your statement is technically accurate for most people, I just don't see the point in asking something like this quite yet when a large amount of change (hardware and software) is coming in such a short time, in a device with a lot of potential. Sure nothing is certain there but it's so likely it's worth waiting just a but to see if that will work well enough as a solution that the overall combination is better than other options.
And as I also said, even the undisclosed Blackberry might be good to evaluate first, or wait to see what the first announced Android phones look like. It's just a really poor time to make a choice like that, right before a new wave of devices hit.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
1. buy an unlocked E70 on the Internet
2. install your AT&T SIM card in the phone
3. profit!!
I've had one for about 18 months on AT&T, it works great. GPRS is a little slow, but it works (iPhone doesn't have 3G either). The only thing I haven't figured out yet is how to use the phone as a bluetooth modem.
That's certainly fair.
What I'd really like to see is a no-frills, T9 enabled SSH for non-smart phones. That should be well within their processing capability, and would make the lives of the poorer class of sysadmins much better. Mine included ;-)
Gee! Nobody would have thought of the iPhone if you hadn't suggested it.
Did it occur to you that your opinion isn't very useful without some hint as to why your hold it? There's a difference between expressing an opinion and mental regurgitation.
Who cares if your carrier supports a particular phone? Just get something that's technologically compatible with the network in question. If you want an E70, get yourself an E70-2, it's got GSM/EDGE 850/1800/1900, plus all of the associated goodness the phone brings in other areas.
I used to use one, loved it. It met an unfortunate end.. Currently using an E61i, while awaiting the release of the E71...
The unsig!
I love my Sidekick. The original, the II, and the id have a lower resolution screen than the III, LX, and any others out there. My id defaults to 48x22 characters, and they're pretty readable. It can be adjusted up/down a little too, but not as far as 80 wide, max appears to be 60. The III/LX probably go up to 80x25 though.
As far as cheapest, if all you want is data, the Sidekick is it, at least in the US market. Unlimited data for $30/mo, flat, without any other costs. Other carriers require you to get a voice plan first before you can get a data plan, and together end up costing ~$50/mo minimum. The terminal app doesn't come bundled with the phone, it has to be purchased for a $10 one-time fee. Because I hardly ever use my celphone as a phone, it's the cheapest solution I've been able to find.
I also suggest Nokia E90 with PuTTY.
...Lyall
Yes, because it would be so convenient to have a terminal application on a phone that doesn't have a keyboard.
Indeed it does not. it has EVERY keyboard.
I've used command lines on devices with supposedly "real" keyboards. They suck because the keyboard has to be basically universal for all needs. But a terminal specific keyboard could adapt to the command you are executing, and provide helpful shortcuts while typing.
"something could be done with completion", yeah come on, just imagine a terminal app working that way for a second....done? OK, then let's be serious again now.
I am as serious as you are unimaginative. What about shortcuts for command flags for widely used programs like grep? What about a regex specific keyboard with larger symbols? What about the shell being aware of possible commands in your shell and tailoring the completion to those alone?
I guess one could buy a bluetooth keyboard to go with the iPhone, but if you have to drag that around as well you probably might as well settle for an EEE PC as mentioned elsewhere in this topic, at about 1/5th the cost.
I mentioned that because I've seen a lot people use them with Windows Mobile and Palm devices. They are a lot more portable than you seem to think, since the smaller ones fold up to be no larger than the size of a second device. Personally I can live without them as I agree it seems like a bit much extra bulk.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You might check the blackberry forums. I have my Blackberry 8800 working as a bluetooth modem, so if the E70 has a similar feature set, it may be worthwhile to at least poke at it. Basically you have to set up the correct bluetooth channel and MAC address for the phone, and then set up your ppp client to use that device.
/etc/bluetooth/rfcomm.conf looks like this:
For example, my
rfcomm0 {
# Automatically bind the device at startup
bind yes;
# Bluetooth address of the device
device 00:00:00:00:00:00; # (put your MAC in here)
# RFCOMM channel for the connection
channel 1;
# Description of the connection
comment "T-Mobile Pitaberry";
}
First use your bluetooth daemon to pair your phone with the computer, then do an "hcitool scan" to find your phone's address, and then an "sdptool search dun" in order to find the channel needed for dial-up networking. Put in your network's dial-up info into your ppp daemon (search for AT&T bluetooth modem linux or similar on Google), and you should be good to go.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
Works for me. You can even buy VPN capability for it cheaply so you tunnel in and do your thing from a Panera. No carier, no contract, no airtime charges, and the connection's probably faster too with no crippleware from the phone company.
I used a treo 650 (on AT&T before it was bellsouth, which then became AT&T again,) about a year, and I used a iPhone for about a year. I've used both a lot of for terminating into linux machines and would much rather have the iPhone then the treo any day. The TREO was great and all, I just personally perfer the iPhone. ymmv
I use my Dash (re-branded Excalibur) for this already. Works flawlessly with ZaTelnet Pro. Keyboard-interactive and keys with passphrase both.
It could be that the only purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others.
However, the E70 has other features that make up for its shortcomings. It has WiFi, and Nokia has a free podcast client for it. This means I can download my favourite directly onto the device and listen to them as I ride home.
Its email client is rather good, handling IMAP, SSL and DIGEST auth. This together with the cheap 3G data plans available now make it a very useful email client.
There are lots of third party Symbian apps about. PuTTY is of course one, another I find useful is GPS. Hook it up to a Bluetooth GPS and its just magic. The battery can last for a couple of days. If you want street navigation the app that runs on the 6110 works on it.
It is a great VOIP (SIP) phone. Not just good - great. VOIP is seamlessly integrated into the phone. I run the Asterisk PABX at work. I don't have a normal desk phone. When I am at work if someone rings my extension my E70 rings. When I make outgoing calls at work they go via VOIP by default, and thus don't cost me a cent. Running Asterisk at home with a SPA3102 means you don't have to run around like a headless chook to find a handset so you can answer an incoming call. If I am at a conference somewhere that provides WiFi I can make free VOIP calls. The audio quality is so good we use it here at work to make all our voice responses - it is better than the Aastra / Linksys / CISCO desk phones we have here.
Last but not least the gull wing keyboard design works very well. The split design works better than the N810 (or any solid block of keys), because you can devote a thumb to each side and they never interfere with each other.
Sadly the E70 has been discontinued for some time and Nokia hasn't produced any successors. Sales were very poor, I hear - its chunky design and bleeding edge features only appealed to geeks. I tried the iPhone, but it isn't a good replacement. I tried a HTC WinCE phone but had to reboot it 3 or 4 times in the first week - I sold it after a month or so. Right now there is nothing on the market that can replace it. I am taking very good care of it as a consequence.
I am hoping that will change, and we will see a replacement. I was at the supermarket the other day - waiting in the line I looked something up on the web. While I was doing that it rang, so I folded the keyboard away and answered it. The checkout chick, who looked to be still at school, spun around (she must of been watching) and said WOW! Perhaps its time to try again, Nokia?
Blackberry Curve with midpssh.
Midpssh is pretty nice. It lets you enter a command at a time, or enter "type" mode where keystrokes are sent in real-time. You can pull up a CTRL dialog to send CRTL commands, a menu for inputting special symbols not on the blackberry keyboard (like pipe).
I've had no problems editing files with nano, and it doesn't drop my connection when a phone call comes in, unlike "terminal" on my old sidekick 2.
Common sense is not so common.
Why so condescending? Someone hurt that special place in your heart you keep pristine for your idol of Steve?
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
The upcoming Nokia E71 would be good, its well built has a keyboard, isn't a massive brick like the E90.
An initial review is here http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/05/25/nokia-e71-review/
----- I refuse to have an argument with an unarmed person
Why so condescending?
I condescend only to those obviously far beneath me (or actually anyone else since I'm no-one of great import) yet obviously carrying a high opinion of themselves and their ideas - when those ideas are wrong, as I demonstrated in this example. I don't mind someone being full of themselves, as long as the vessel contains something of merit. Otherwise I like to poke a hole in it and watch it deflate.
Basically it's called putting someone in their place.
Now care to address the actual counterpoints I raised, or are you just here from the Apple Haters Protection Society? Why so concerned for his well being, mysterious second poster who is obviously not the same guy?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
1) Big landscape display ( about 132x18 characters on bigger font, or even something like 200x27 with small font)
2) Best compromize for keyboard size
On-screen keyboard suck totally for writing longer pieces of text or special characters.
Many smaller keyboard also suck quite a lot.
E90 is very good for thumb typing, and has easy access for many special characters, no need to dig them from some special menu. When doing programming or unix shell things, need need these a lot.
3) Good connectivity
4-band GSM, 3G, WLAN. You always get the fastest (least lag) connection to you unix server.
And it still fits into a trouser pocket, even though it's bigger than most phones.
Stock, an iPhone would be worthless to me.
Jailbroken, it is the mobile, UNIX-powered computing device I have always wanted.
+++ATH0
It doesn't try to tell you what you mean in MobileTerminal. Autocomplete/correct is turned off.
+++ATH0
for official development. Jailbreaking is not an end-of-the-world process. You'd still be able to update to software version 2.0 and use that (probably jailbroken, no less).
+++ATH0
I agree with you completely; comments inappropriately bringing up the iPhone can be likened to spam.
Thanks for the backup.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
It is not inaccurate. You AREN'T ALLOWED TO JAILBREAK. You lose support and you are hacking a device with a third party thing to get SSH (read: Secure Shell Access) without any support from vendor. All of that for $600 and no real keyboard while even lowest end Symbian S60 phones can have actual bluetooth keyboard working or a laser keyboard if you don't mind people staring.
It is not your fault, not the guys fault coding jailbreak for free, it is Apple and the fanatics of Apple who can't resist declining to buy a closed/locked device in 2008.
You know what? A simple phone (sub $100!) without Symbian/WinCE can do SSH, over J2ME ssh. No hacking etc. involved, click and install.
If it ever comes out, I'd give OpenMoko a try...
You can get the N95-3 or N95-4, which are specifically built for the North American market (including AT&T compatible 3G frequencies). Furthermore, AT&T has unlimited data plans for $20 a month. All you need to do is to save enough money, and buy an unlocked phone.
You aren't allowed to speed in a car, but you do. And with the current jailbreaking solutions, it doesn't void your warranty or anything since you can restore it to factory original settings etc.
And the iPhone does have a real keyboard, and for less than $600.
While I'm not disagreeing that you can get SSH on other phones, it also works great on the iPhone.
I hold no opinion on the actual subject, aside from elsewhere where I assert that predictive text for a shell is... not appropriate. As far as the iPhone goes, I've never used one - so I hold no opinion.
I do have an opinion on people being asses to each other however, and like to point out such behavior (but I guess you were friendly-fire)
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
You do not realize how completion works on the iPhone. As you type you see completions appear, and you can accept them or dismiss them. I'm not talking an override of your wishes, but the thing computers do best - enhancement of human abilities.
Your example is actually even more unrealistic than you think, as after you hit "/" you'd have to indicate you were done typing somewhere, and then execute the command - a two step process. So error by omission is far less likely than it would be on a "normal" keyboard.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
As far as the iPhone goes, I've never used one - so I hold no opinion.
Like I said, the way the predictive stuff works can be made appropriate. I honestly see some interesting possibilites, including gesture based shortcuts (no reason to ignore touches in a shell or use them only for editing text...)
I do have an opinion on people being asses to each other however, and like to point out such behavior (but I guess you were friendly-fire)
Well I was totally an ass so I'd say you were spot on, but it was for a reason as noted. Basically I just hate inaccuracy and that post had plenty of it along with a snooty attitude that I find typical of people that irrationally hate Apple (there are those with rational hatred but they are few and far between).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Your points are well taken, I had no real idea how the text entry works. I'm still a bit put-off by the idea of virtual keyboards (I have a buckling spring keyboard, if that gives you any insight) - but if it works for you, go for it.
As far as all the Apple hating/fanboism - I seem to have developed an instinctual annoyance with anything Apple, which is entirely the communities fault - not Apple. IE, "Apple does blah" and "the iWidget does foo" result in me immediately rolling my eyes and skimming over the rest of the text (or ignoring the conversation, if in the real world). Just conditioned response to all the imbecile flaming/trolling. Likely my asshole response to you was partly due to that - and I apologize.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned mToken yet. As an ssh client it totally rocks. It's not free in any way, but I've been using it for a couple months on my i760 and it's been really great.
:(
The post was about what phones are good though. The i760 has a nice keyboard, but has no hardware escape or ctrl key. This is bad for vim, pine, emacs, pico, and nano. I haven't seen a phone that had either of those keys in hardware.
mToken has soft keys for it, and it looks like pssh does as well, but having real ones would really do the trick.
That said, I use pine and vim with mine all the time.
yadda
I've used my nokia 9600 with no problems. It's a -great- phone for a sysadmin. I rarely rave about anything, but this phone has earned it. Crackberry and email clients, no strings attached audio player, memory card slot.
There was a follow-up sold to my trusty old 9300 in the U.S. but the E90 wasn't made available in the U.S. That's a pity because I would have been the first on my block with one.
It looks like the way to go in the U.S. may be a usb dongle and a PDA-like device instead of a phone.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
For real keyboards I also prefer buckling spring, though I do not own one currently as for a while I could not find one and the old IBM keyboard I used just wasn't as useful on modern computers. Recently I have seen one reviewed and I'll probably buy that soon.
Think of it this way - no small device is going to have a buckling-spring keyboard, so the flexibility of layout a virtual keyboard offers completely overwhelms whatever tiny advantage the physical "keys" on other small devices offer. Typing on an iPhone keyboard is to me, not so different as them and in some cases far better as I hate the tiny keys and sometimes weird keybindings other deivces offer while I appreciate the custom keyboard the iPhone includes including way larger number keys for dialing, and a keyboard specific to URLS (which do not need spaces and so omit the spacebar to include other more useful keys like "/").
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley