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$50 to Get XP On a New Dell
CWmike writes "Dell will charge customers up to $50 for factory-installed Windows XP on some PCs after Wednesday, according to the company's Web site. Buyers of the low-priced Vostro line of desktops and notebooks will pay $20 to $50 more for Windows XP Professional installed as a 'downgrade' from Windows Vista Business or Vista Ultimate than they would for Vista only."
it's expensive, but it's worth it.
count me in.
Read radical news here
why else would you pay more.
Well I guess they've got to get people to move to Vista somehow... Too bad for Microsoft it doesn't exactly sell itself.
Large print giveth, and the small print taketh away
If it's a "Downgrade", shouldn't it be *CHEAPER*?????
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
I don't suppose there's any way for Microsoft to sue them?
Look, I know xp is what everyone wants, but it should be obvious that the days are numbered for this OS.
My humor is probably your flamebait
All of the business and workstation class machines (OptiPlex, Latitude, Precision) will have downgrade rights for no premium over Vista Business.
I make websites and stuff. Buy one.
you could just get Ubuntu from Dell. Hell, I'd take one of their DOS machines before buying Vista.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
Makes sense, how else can you get customers to use Vista unless you force them to.
Am I the only one sho does notsee a problem here? Get Vista, sell the product key to someone unsuspecting fool and then install an old copy of XP SP2. Of course the product key might not work since it might be some Dell/XP cooperative scam, who knows. At any rate, $20 - $50 is a small price to pay for a computer that actually runs !!
Well, I guess it depends on what you do with that computer. If Ubuntu does the trick for you, more power to you.
On the other hand, while I _am_ writing this on a SuSE 10.0 machine, I wouldn't really want Linux on my gaming rig. I know, Wine, bla, bla, bla. Tried that route some time ago, wasn't worth the effort. Does it even work with most games' copy-protection these days, or do you still need a crack just to run your legitimately purchased game in Wine?
So, well, different tools for different folks.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
As opposed to buying a copy of XP from someone else for $150?
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
So, when I get the PC home do I get to not accept the EULA, and call for a rebate of the cost of Vista + the $20-$50 more I payed for my "downgrade?"
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
As in: "...can you just send me the laptop with nothing at all installed on the hard disk? I intend to install (Ubuntu/Fedora/OpenSuSE) on it. No, I really don't want anything in the way of tech support outside of parts and labor."
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
I say we all call Dell Sales lines right now and complain about this crap. The Slashdotting of their call center will get their attention.
For some classes of customers, they have to expect a certain number of calls over most other customers. Small Business customers are likely one of those classes, as they tend to not have their own IT staff. Charging them a premium for a near EOL (again) OS, allows Dell to recoup some of the costs associated with testing multiple flavors of XP on a continuing basis on systems that don't already have that cost built in (yes, I'm making the assumption they build that in to their different other classes of PC).
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
This story is a cut and paste job from Twitter's journal, made within two hours of the twitter post. CWMike must be another Twitter sock puppet and this story is just more hysterical FUD about Vista.
I'd pay the $50... As a software developer that works with both C# and PLC programming frequently there's still too many programs that just don't work right on Vista that we have to use at the company I work for. My boss has tried to stay on Vista but simply can't.
...a computer with NOTHING on it? It costs me / the company more than $50 while I sit there removing all the trialware and junk off the pre-loaded systems. I'd easily pay $50 to just get a machine with a blank hard drive and/or a "just load the OS" option.
The HD's are likely all imaged with a single Vista image. In order to mass market XP, they will likely have to re-tool slightly to continue producing XP imaged drives in addition to Vista imaged drives. It's not much, but it does add to the labor, and while $50 is a bit steep, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the combination of tooling, labor, and licensing adds up to close to that amount.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
... considering I don't buy Dell unless you pay me $250 minimum /workstation.
Vista is the automatic transmission, XP is a manual. There's more to break down in an automatic, it saps the power of the engine, and it robs you of a certain degree of control over your car; but we are conditioned to think that slushboxes are an upgrade, and that when both are offered, it costs extra to have them (while some models don't come with the manual at all). I never understood that logic (as well as its "bigger car is better car" counterpart), and Europeans don't seem to be infected by it. Even in the US cars sometimes came with a "no-cost manual option" (admittedly, these were mostly Corvettes and BMWs); now it's time to drop the "no-cost" part of it. Still, some people (me included) would choose it, on both desktops and four wheels.
I can assure you, the best way to get rid of dragons is to have one of your own.
Yet again we see proof that Microsoft has a monopoly. If there were real competition in the market, people would not be forced to bend over and pay more. There would be competition, Dell would have to offer it at the same price or another operating system would win.
Also, if there were competition, Microsoft would not have the economic ability to decide to drop a product that people wanted and force them into something they didn't. If I was a share holder and there was actual competition in the market place, I'd have the board and CEO fired for failing their fiduciary responsibilities.
But since they have a monopoly, there is no economic feedback.
I am surprised that there is NOT some sort of MS kick-back schema for buying *something* with Windows Vista pre-installed (even if Dell or whomever replaces WinVista with WinXP before the end-user ever touches their new PC.)
/sarcasm
I am NOT surprised that this is how Microsoft can claim Vista is their best selling and most popular OS of all time? (Thusly, Now nearly every PC has originally Vista, even if it is formatted and never used...)
If I sold wrenches and screwdrivers separately and I suddenly stopped selling my screwdrivers and subsequentally required anyone wanting to buy my screwdriver (beyond an arbitrary date) to first buy the unwanted wrench and then to "downgrade" their wrench purchase as it apparently entitles them to also have the screwdriver (but NOT to use both at the same time). (Nevermind, that if they wish to "upgrade" their screwdriver to a wrench, they will lose all the ability to use that screwdriver ever again...)
Now I can claim my wrenches are the best selling hand tool ever of all time!!
(Of course no one ever "OWNS" my said wrenches or screwdrivers, they ONLY license their use from me after first agreeing to a very lengthy EULA that no end user has ever read and of course paying me first for the privilege... )
-Great marketing racket and business model Microsoft.
How much for Linux on that machine? Or better yet, how about a bare drive?
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"You will buy what we fucking tell you to buy."
Let's give a big hand to market forces, everybody.
Or at least a finger.
According to Ballmer, if you own a copy of Vista you can legally install XP for no additional charge.
http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/operatingsystems/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=208402056
And how much more does it cost to have it shipped without any Windows OS at all?
I saw someone re-install it on their machine (SP3) the other day and had their first application crash within the first minute. It also lacked drivers for their ethernet and wireless, but not the webcam. How exceedingly useful. Not that I'm advocating Vista, but XP still has its fair share of bugs (the Linux dual-boot that the guy had worked fine)...
Dell, Gateway, etc should pay us to use any version of Windows on their hardware.
I'm getting more gray hairs the more I use Microsoft products. My hair would still be dark brown if the world had gone Linux 5 years ago...
Just my $0.02 worth.
Dell may offer that option in the U.S., at a price, in other areas they advertise that the customer is king and that therefore XP is available, but only for a select number of systems. Those systems then turn out to be top-of-the-line and cost the equivalent of thousands of dollars.
So, if I was in the market for a new PC, I'd be more than happy to pay the 50 bucks so I can have an OS that is compatible with most software I use, relatively stable and not requiring me to relearn operating my PC.
I recently bought a Dell quad core with Vista - it sucked.
Installed a new hard drive, reformatted and ran an old Dell XP install disc. XP installed, took updates to SP3 and it's been running fine for months. XP didn't even ask for a serial number which always was needed on the box the install disc originally came with.
Perhaps I'm missing something but I wonder why more folks who are replacing a computer don't simply use the OS license from the old one?
I have two machines on my desk, one GNU/Linux and one XP (because I'm too lazy to do the work required to get certain games, etc., to run on Linux). My XP machine has an Official Windows XP Professional 1-2 CPU sticker on it. Why can't/don't I get a new machine, install XP (or image-copy the old one) and wipe the old machine?
With the exception of the short time when both machines are running, it seems perfectly legitimate and I wonder why more folks don't choose this route.
Last time I checked the Windows EULA, it seemed like this was OK but, like I said, I may be missing something...)
You have the right to remain silent. If you don't, anything you say will be misquoted and used against you.
let see you have to buy a kicked up version of "vista" to be eligible to "downgrade" it. Then you have to pay a premium for the downgrade. Only in the computer business can something this idiotic be proffered and people will actually go for it. just another reason not to by any crap from any of these people. if you do go for a deal like this then well, hum ... nevermind
After going through a nightmare trying--"how hard can it be?"--to find XP drivers for an HP F763NR a few weeks ago this looks like a bargain. Amazing, they've made it as hard to find win xp drivers for some devices as it is to find linux drivers. Nice work folks! -G
i request ubuntu preloaded and then downgrade ?
Read radical news here
Yes, on the Vostros it costs money. If you are buying the (far better) latitudes it is a free upgrade/downgrade.
I'm still running Windows 2000 on the last Windows machine. It's so drama-free. No pushed updates, no annoying popups from Microsoft, no crashes in years.
You run Windows 2000. XP is tied to the mothership in Redmond. With Vista, Microsoft runs you.
$50.00 is a Great Deal... considering I was forced to pay the full retail price for XP, in order to get out of Vista Hell from Dell! Shall we say that Dell was, umm, of zero help in this matter. I am glad to see Dell has *finally* changed their stance towards being a bit less antagonistic towards their (former) customers. Good - Make this retroactive, so those who got screwed by Dell and Microsoft into buying a retail copy of XP in order to "Upgrade" get fairer treatment. Better - $0.00 to "Upgrade" to XP would be a lot more like it - Then I might even buy another Dell someday? Best - Pay the customer a bonus for putting up with Vista, before the customer comes to their senses and *Upgrades* to XP!
Hi twitter
Vista's issues, if you want to pay a $50 premium for a 7+ year old OS to prove your hate, be my guest.
and the most I have seen them charge extra for XP is £10 (about $20), on the higher end optiplex machines it came at no extra charge.
I guess on the low end lines this is just another example of the usual practice of keeping the headline price low and then charging over the odds for any extras.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
And how do you know that? Oh, yes.
You're still paying less than a retail copy of XP. The reason it's more than Vista is because Dell likely has a new contract for including Vista on a new computer, where they no longer have the deal for XP. So you're paying full OEM price for the copy.
Maybe you've come up with the perfect way to troll Slashdot.
I think this is a big part of the problem. When you have that kind of time line, the project loses focus. Remember all of the things that were supposed to be in Vista but were dropped along the way? There never seemed to be a clear vision of what it was supposed to be. It doesn't have to be that way. NASA certainly has shown that long term projects can have spectacular results.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
Say NO to twitter sockpuppets!
Why is anyone surprised at this, Dell charges £13 ($26) for formatting a drive, £20 ($40) for a 3m CAT-5 - $50 for ridding you of Vista is a bargain by their standards.
"Dude, you're going to Hell."
Never buy a computer from a company whose name rhymes with Hell. You'll be sorry.
In that my wife gets better with every "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade". Now if I could only do an "apt-get install tightass bigger-boobs".
Sounds like a win/win for Dell. Either you buy a machine with Vista on it... or you pay them more to install XP. One way or another you're shelling out a lot of money for sub-par parts and terrible service.
Seems fair to me. Since Vista is free thanks to all the advertisement you get with it.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
Look folks, the reason for the extra $50 is simple. You get both Vista AND XP.
I know it's a lot more fun to misinterpret the summary, then comment on your misinterpretation. But if you actually RTFA, it's not so sensational.
You still get Vista, the $50 just nets you XP as well so it's not actually that bad of a deal. I've been buying my business systems like this so that when for whatever stupid reason I'm forced to move systems to Vista they already have licenses. It also comes in handy for dual booting dev. systems.
cf Adam Smith
Greedheads like M$ >>love the marketplace until it bites them in the butt.
I have to say, I'm pretty dang happy with the stability of my XP computer. And it does a LOT of different things...well.
No reason to fight through that morass again. Yet still, I know...when it does go down...I'll have little choice but to pay the Microsoft tax, one way or another.
+&x
If they also charge extra to "downgrade" to Ubuntu as well, and they'll make a fortune from the people trying to flee Vista like rats fleeing a sinking ship.
This whole XP/Vista scenario reminds me of what happened with Star Trek: The Next Generation. When TNG was in it's peak of popularity, the series was cancelled and they started making TNG movies to make more money. A handful of disappointing TNG movies came and went, and now the prospect of any future TNG movies thankfully does not exist. The ironic truth is that people still prefer to watch the television series even today.
The typical end user doesn't want Vista because they resist change especially when they're happy where they're at. Also, to be honest, people are tired of dishing out more and more money for upgrades that to them don't seem justified -- even low end systems today give a nice amount of cpu processing power that is more than sufficient for your typical internet junkie. And typical end users (aka NOT geeks you'd find here) don't want to 'relearn' how to do things with their OS. Vista, at least to the herd, is a headache they're rather not deal with.
As a side note -- about 5 years ago my mother bought her first pc -- a box from Tiger Direct running Lindows. She knew *nothing* about pcs -- but after she started using her new pc she LOVED Lindows. Eventually, something went wrong with her HD and she took it to a mom and pop PC repair shop and they gave her a new HD with XP installed. End result: she *hated* XP. She ran into several virii and spyware/adware issues that she never had to worry about with Lindows -- even now she'll mention how she misses her old OS. Too bad Dell doesn't offer Linux OS on it's pcs -- it would all but kill the MS Empire.
Yes, that was sarcasm.
Unfortunately, HP doesn't offer the same program. I would have paid to downgrade. Vista SUCKS. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we supposed to PAY for an UPGRADE??? sheez.... This must be MicroBrains way of admitting that XP really is a superior product. Hey, and long as it makes Gates more billions, why not? He'll swallow his pride one way or another in order to make more ducats.
I am not a fan of Microsoft, but I must agree with the parent post.
I have a nice little tablet computer that I use, and I need the handwriting recognition features for the main reason I use it. In this case, it's an HP, not a Dell. However, the drivers for the machine do not exist for XP, or at least HP vehemently deny that they exist. I _need_ the handwriting recognition. Without that, it's just a tiny little laptop.
Vista is a resource hog. This tablet has a 2GHz Core 2 Duo and 4GB of RAM, but it's pathetically slow. I wish I could run XP on it, or anything that would give me the handwriting recognition that I need (Chinese and Japanese).
I'm also not a huge fan of Dell, but I must applaud them for being willing to, in effect, tell Microsoft to smeg off by continuing to offer XP even after MS's official "sell-by" date has past.
I find it amusing that the CAPTCHA for this post is "reoccur".
I was looking for a new Dell laptop yesterday on the "Healthcare" section of their site when I noticed this. The downgrade (according to the Dell site) comes with a DVD allowing you to "migrate to Windows Vista on your own schedule." Both OSs are covered for the limited warranty period. So I guess they think they are doing you a favour? I have Vista on one side of a dual boot machine, and refuse to use it. Microsoft need to realize that, just like Windows ME, people don't want Vista. It sucks. They failed. Move on, but don't force us to use it, please!
Buy 1 Dell, get 2 Win licences, give MS the chance to add 2 to their "Win packages sold" counter instead of 1?
No.
And also let them add 2 to their "I.E. copies deployed" counter instead of 1?
No to this one, again.
Not for the life of great-grandma.
Dell makes the drive mfr put the images on the drives before delivery. The mfr doesn't care what image goes on - they used to put just zeros or test pattern data I believe.
One or the other makes no difference to Dell.
This is about getting people to take the Vista on the PC and then install the XP themselves so people will quit whining about MS overcounting Vista sales.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Windows 95 - bad
Windows 98 - good
Windows 2K/me - bad
Windows XP - good
Windows Vista - bad
Windows 7 - good??
It looks like it's within microsoft's standard procedures.
Calvin:Do you believe in the devil? Hobbes:I'm not sure man needs the help.
Considering NVIDIA is too lazy to put in a simple entry in their driver's .INF file so their newer mobile cards would work in XP I want to see how many of the newer model laptops could POSSIBLY downgrade without doing what I had to do - hack the .INF and get the deviceid in there so XP would see the hardware (8600M GS).
.INF file so their card would work under XP (since they ARE using a unified driver architecture and all for the very purpose of keeping things compatible across the board)
Seriously, people at NVIDIA must be REALLY LAZY to not include one line of code into an
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
How much is this Linux that I keep hearing so much about. And yes, I am new here....
Orbis terrarum est non altus satis
>Too bad Dell doesn't offer Linux OS on it's pcs -- it would all but kill the MS Empire.
Which is exactly why Dell won't (isn't allowed to/can't) stop selling Windoze...
There is no requirement to buy it,and after all they get both Vista AND XP under this deal. How does this damage the average SlashDot reader...err picture looker?
no comment
This isn't news - Previously, certain models were off limits for the "downgrade" option - the Vostro for example. My guess is that the price covers either the development cost of XP drivers or the cost of installing different a different image or some different hardware.
...but I like the eye candy too. I've been using Vista at work for a couple months, and when you look at a computer screen all day it is nice to have it look good. That said, Vista really makes me wish that Steve Jobs' evil twin was CEO of MS. There are so many design and UI inconsistencies and inane default settings, a Jobs regime would have been lopping off heads left and right if they tried to get this past him.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
From what I could tell, the $20 addition gets you XP pro vs. XP home.
When I bought laptops for the house in January, the same models with XP (instead of Vista) were $50 more each.
The real FAIL came later:
Thinking I could just get Vista, save $50, and re-load XP from Genuine XP install media (I had licenses to spare). Turns out XP wouldn't work. There were devices on the laptops (WiFi, sound, etc..) for which there were no XP drivers available. I wound up restoring Vista and spending the $100 I "saved" on an additional GB of memory for each system to make them usable.
Get off my lawn.
I really figured based on the capitalization and bad spelling that it would be another "slashdot suxors" bit, or perhaps even goatse.cz. But this was actually amusing.
That's right, mod parent funny.
and it's central character, I'm sure you have dozens of accounts.
Wii sports.
I guess it is up for debate whether it's in its own genre though.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
Doesnt effect us Pirates. I use a hacked copy of "xp lite". I have vista on my laptop only becuse Xp bluescreens every time i tryed to install it.
I tried searching the discussion, didn't see this noted anywhere. So if you run the restore CD's, are you going to end up with Vista? Or do they supply you with both versions of restore/driver CDs? One for XP and one for Vista?
When I bought my Vostro, I had to pay $100 to upgrade it from XP Home to XP Pro!
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
Look, I'm not trying to dis Linux or anything. It's great for work or casual browsing any email.
But for games, umm, how do I say this tactfully?
1. the "you have more games than were released for the Atari 7800 (60 titles) and Virtual Boy (22) put together" doesn't say much. Both were flops and had pitiful numbers of games release, compared to any other platform. And even less original games. So it's a bit like saying that a drink tastes better than diarrhea. Or that a movie was more entertaining than root canal and a kick in the nuts put together. They comparison point is so low, that it doesn't really say much.
Now if you could compare it to the Atari 2600, or NES, that would be something.
2. I've seen the list of those 42 top commercial games, and I even commented on that story. I'll even raise you about a dozen more Loki ports, and a few commercial adventures that work well in ScummVM.
Nothing against them as such, kudos for porting them, but some are as much as 10 years old. My idea of having a gaming rig is more along the lines of, dunno, "I wanna play Age Of Conan which just got released", than like "I wanna play Knights And Merchants which I've already played in the 90's. And thought it sucked." Or much as Quake 3 Arena was a fine game for 2000, let's face it, there's a very limited number of people who still play _that_ online. You get the idea.
3. The free games... well, I've _tried_ a bunch of them. Yes, not all are Tetris clones. Pingus is a clone of Lemmings (an 1991 game) and the copy I tried, never had more than the tutorial levels. Some are clones of Missile Command (from 1980), the most notable of which being probably Penguin Command. Some are clones of Arkanoid (1986), and no matter what twists you give them (e.g., Briquolo), it's still f-ing Arkanoid, you know? Ditto, replacing the cute little dinosaur with a penguin doesn't make, say, Frozen Bubble be anything else than a clone of Puzzle Bobble / Bust-A-Move from 1994. I can even think of a moderately passable clone of 2D Mario games from the 80's, namely SuperTux. Etc.
I've seen very little in the way of original games there, and even fewer that don't look like old ass. Sorry, _classic_ ass.
Now I can't have any demands there given that they're free. I can see they couldn't afford an army of graphics artists or a celebrity game designer. I know that. Thanks for the intention, guys, and all that. But being that I'm not exactly below poverty line either, I'd really rather pay for a commercial-grade game.
Look, again, I'm not trying to put down Linux across the board. But for the narrow domain called "video games", it wouldn't really be my first choice. Sorry.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Can anyone help? - $1 (Vancouver) Reply to: sale-722015760@craigslist.org Date: 2008-06-16, 2:07PM PDT Please help....my laptop broke and I had no choice but to replace the hard drive in it. My autistic son is still without the laptop because apparently windows has to be activated, to which it costs money to talk to microsoft to get this number from them. I have had some luck in having help in getting a copy of windows xp for the new hard drive, and I had help getting a product key for it. Unfortunately, it will not allow me to activate windows and will not let me online or anything. I just have to get this information somehow to activate windows properly, so that my autistic son can have the computer back to do his educational programs on. Once that is activated, I will try to figure out a way to download the drivers to the laptop so that it will find the internet on it again. If anyone knows how to help, please do so. I do not have money because I raise a family of four on my part time income. My husband can't work due to having two strokes, and yes we filed disability but have been fighting them on that for two years now. If you can help, please... Thank you and have a great day!! * Location: Vancouver * it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests PostingID: 722015760
Maybe they're testing to see how price-sensitive people are to their Vista hatred.
When people demand XP instead of Vista, are people just whining with the growing pains of the new OS, or are they damn serious about not putting up with Vista's crap (I would guess the latter). They're in a position of customers wanting a discontinued OS, which is pretty awkward for them.
If people are willing to go for Vista for a $50 savings, then they can't be that upset about Vista, and are just whining. If they are really willing to put their money where their mouths are, it's a pretty strong message about the Vista concerns.
More importantly, a clear preference for the $50 XP option, would help Dell send a strong message to Microsoft not to discontinue distribution and support for XP.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
What a rip off, might as well just go with Vista, and if you don't want Vista then go with these.
"(...) $20 to $50 more for Windows XP Professional installed as a 'downgrade' from Windows Vista Business or Vista Ultimate(...)"
So $20 to $50 less for Linux installed as a 'upgrade' from Vista?
Forget the downgrade and buy linux compatible machine and take the savings and replace all your windows only hardware with linux compatible hardware if you have any windows only hardware. That way you can for forget all about the microsoft monopoly.
Lenovo has been doing this for a while. I got my Thinkpad with SUSE installed on it and avoided the whole XP versus Vista fee. Of course I now have Ubuntu running but that's a different story.
Of course the gaming situation on Linux is terrible, Game producers have a predisposed anti-Linux prejudice. Trust me, game shops hate Linux, and I contend that if Linux ever became a market force that refused to be ignored, Game shops would do whatever was possible to sabotage a Linux gaming platform.
But you are wrong. Linux is not another Atari of gaming. It could be an excellent gaming platform, its just that there will be blood that runs in the streets before the Game publishers allow there to be Games like Crysis for Linux natively.
My father is sitting in a chair for the next two months due to a broken heel. I bought him a laptop directly from Lenovo. They had a great sale for Fathers Day (25% off). Their standard install was Vista Business. The downgrade for XP Pro was $22.
May I please have my frontal lobotomy if I bring back the ashtrays?
I'm going to have to build a new PC for She Who Must Be Obeyed in the next couple of months, so I rushed to Newegg to buy an OEM copy of XP—for $139. Bah. Maybe I should have just bought Dell PC for her. But She wants another one of those cute little Shuttles.
I'm bringing myself up to speed on nix (hey, Ubuntu Hardy Heron works!), but SWMBO is something of a support nightmare—the consequences of failure are unthinkable. I'm simply not ready to find equivalents of all her favorite applications and get them working on Ubuntu (is there even an equivalent of Turbo Tax for nixes?). And SWMBO reacts violently to any sort of change...I know how to make XP's desktop look like the Win 2000 She knows and loves, but I think it would take some work to pull off that same trick with Ubuntu.
Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
The big news here is that Dell is going to continue to sell the general public machines with XP preinstalled. That's quite a testament to what marketplace is saying.
Look, last year I thought I wanted/needed a laptop. Dell advertised one for $550 with Vista Home. I called and said I was interested, but I wanted the price with XP. After some discussion, Dell said it would be $900. After I recovered from the shock, I asked why they charged $350 extra for XP.
Dell's rep said "Oh, we don't charge anything extra at all for XP. $900 is simply our regular price for that laptop, with either XP or Vista Home. What you saw was a special promotional price for a specific configuration, which is one that includes Vista."
So another way to think about it is that $350 to $50 is one heck of an improvement.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
They must PAY for it. This is plain extortion and tie-in sale.
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
Msft makes an OS that is such a POS, that people actually pay not to have it installed. Msft forces people to pay for a downgrade? Brilliant!
Oh boy! Another opportunity for me to pay for msft's inability to create a decent product. I can hardly wait.
Works with all my hardware and software, lightweight, fast, and reliable, no authentication, no nagging, no spying. Familiar interface, nothing new to learn. No default "fisher-price" look.
I wish I could just incrementally upgrade windows, like I do with debian.
Anything to stop someone from expressly withholding consent to the Vista EULA, accepting the XP EULA, and then demanding (as is one's right) to a refund for Vista?
Please mod parent up Informative! He's exactly right about the free downgrade on other models.
Then how much would you pay for Ubuntu, which causes even fewer headaches than Windows XP as long as GNU/Linux supports your hardware?
The problem with Linux IS hardware support. That's why everyone is trying to hack up their drivers so, they might get 60% functionality out of their printers. 60% is better than nothing, right? Since I'm not a geek, that translates to 6 hours of research on the internet. Why 6 hours? Well, because it is assumed that everyone who uses Linux is an uber-geek, who knows the terminal inside-out, rather than a more adventurous Joe Sixpack. Well, sorry I'm not a geek. I need step by step instructions.But, I guess, maybe I was a little hasty in my comment. I should have said the problem with Linux is hardware support and software that basically amounts to half-assed, 60% functional clones of their Windows counterparts.
So to answer your question, $0. (They've gotta make it worth something before people will want to buy it.)
Believe me, I run a dual boot (Linux/XP) laptop. I have no intention of allowing M$ to extort any more of my hard earned cash. I will not be buying Vista. If I need it, then all I have to say is "Yarrrr, matey!! Now it be my turn to steal from M$!!".
All this time, you guys have been claiming it's ready for the desktop. Well, I'm trying it out but, I've got some counterclaims to file. So, let's get realistic about the year of Linux on the desktop.
OK, all you Linux fanboys, mod me down for exposing the truth. G'head, try to hide me under a -1 mod.
Thanks,
Above-Average Joe Sixpack
It's actually two pieces of crap for the price of two. The Vista OEM license is bundled in with the price of the hardware, and you pay extra for the backwards-compatible XP license.
I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
Well, the only thing that's certain at this point is that the instant Microsoft and all the computer makers stop selling Windows XP, there will be more piracy of Windows XP in the United States than there has ever been in China. Hell, they should just keep selling it because it'll make up for their losses due to the "excellent" sales of Vista.
McCain/Palin '08. Now THAT's hope and change!
The base price on the cheap PCs isn't going to change much. The XP they're offering is XP Pro, not XP Home. The older XP PCs have always been priced with XP Home.
In other words, what used to cost $100 (upgrade from XP Home to XP Pro) is not $50 (upgrade from Vista to XP Pro).
XP Home, unfortunately, looks to no longer be available at all.
Send a bill for $50 to Microsoft. They said it was supposed to be a free downgrade. Let them put their $$$ where their press release is.
--Ed-- - Cub fans... This is the year! http://www.100yearsorbust.com
So, by making a shoddy OS, now Microsoft gets to collect royalties on TWO operating systems at once, earning double the profit on a PC sale?
And exactly how do they lose out of this deal?
This is 1 of many reasons I don't use Dell for my company's PC's anymore. We have standardized on XP. We will stay on XP until there is a viable alternative that works better. ie: not Vista.
Dell has been trying to cram Vista down customer's throats for almost a year now. They stopped selling XP altogether and then had to go back and add XP options on a few product lines, like Vostro. Mind you, they don't offer XP on ALL of their machines. Just a few "select" product lines. Note: this was a Dell decision, not a MSFT one. Other PC makers were happy to put XP on our machines if that's what we wanted. Dell tries to force us into Vista.
As it stands currently, I have left Dell as a customer for this reason. It is so blatantly obvious that they are catering to their supplier (MSFT) instead of their customer's that I just refuse to deal with them anymore. I am certain I am not alone, either.
How can such a successful company like Dell make such a serious blunder to their business customers? It's bad enough to do it to MaryJane Mathteacher but businesses won't put up with that crap. Businesses pay a premium (usually) to get *exactly* what they want. There are very good reasons for this and if you try to force us into "your" solution, we will go elsewhere.
Dell...are you listening? Figure it out. Vista sucks. People don't want it. Stop pretending they do and start doing what your customers want. How many petitions do we have to sign to tell you idiots we want to pass on Vista and get XP instead?
Now you add insult to injury by charging us $50. Nice move. It makes it that much easier to go elsewhere, as plenty of more customer-focused PC suppliers are offering what their customer's want -- XP.
(disclosure: I used to work at Dell from 92-95 and was a major Dell fanboy for many many years. I am biased in support of Dell and yet....I have to tell it like it is)
It's a lot like Linux: if someone is stupid enough to want it on their PC despite a better OS being provided at no additional cost... let them put their money where their irrational MS-hatred is.
After a while, people will find their $50 to be of more value than their stupidity.
The other is just a small bug that occurs when you create a new folder and then try to rename it too quickly.
Uh-huh. So you don't think "creating and naming a folder" should be a minimum requirement for an OS? I keep hearing justifications for Vista's poor I/O performance and I can't help but wonder: where is the skepticism?
Copying files, creating/naming folders, etc have been a standard feature of an OS since, oh...about 1983. Are you really giving MSFT a free pass on this? In my mind, it's inexcusable for this functionality not to be perfect. How can an OS, with the money and time MSFT put into it, not work perfectly with respect to the file system???? I don't care what they say: that's the very definition of a lemon.
get it?
stop talking about M$ you 14yo technodweebs, it sucks and you suck for talking about it, suck, suck suck!
www.damnsmalllinux.org/
www.damnsmalllinux.org/dsl-n/
http://www.puppylinux.org/
DON'T FORGET TO LOAD THE OS TO RAM
dsl toram
puppy pfix=ram
It's sooooo good!
You say 'Lazy', I say, 'follow the money'.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Also, just FYI...the Vostro does NOT have a docking station available for it.
Did you ever, in your wildest dreams, think you would have to check for that?!?! Well, I didn't either and found out the hard way when I bought 2 of them for our office.
Needless to say, we are none too happy that this fact isn't pointed out by Dell. Do I really need to go through each and every single piece of the details to verify "standard laptop items" are there? ie: should I really have to check that my new laptop has a 10/100 port? Is that not "standard" on all laptops now? That's the kind of stuff I am talking about. Surely the availability of a docking station falls into that category. But nope...not at Dell.
Marketing is ruling the roost over there at Dell and they are trying to carve up the product lines so finely that the average customer has no clue what is and is not included on a given laptop. Very very customer unfriendly, if you ask me. Reminds me of the early days of PC's when you had to ask, "does it include a parallel port? How about a serial port?". After about 2 years of that, almost all PC's had those ports as standard features.
This is one of many reasons we left Dell. For good.
The real villain here is MS, not Dell. They're actually being pretty reasonable considering the extra process they're having to maintain.
How can you say this? Dell had to agree to this in the first place, right? So how do they escape all blame here? They did their best to jam Vista down our throats and share every bit as much blame as MSFT. Dell actually eliminated XP (fall '07) entirely only to bring it back by customer demand. Haven't you seen the numerous petitions to Dell to keep selling XP? Those don't come about because Dell is doing it right. They come about because Dell is NOT doing things right.
I say this in all seriousness because I just bought a lot of PC's for our office. Dell wanted me to buy Vista (clearly). Other PC makers were happy to supply either XP or Vista. Now how come the other guys can do that and Dell (with it's vast resources) can't?
You act like Dell works for MSFT. Last I checked, Dell can make decisions on it's own. And clearly, they backed the wrong horse this time around. They should be punished (by lower revenues) and if you look at their stock price they have. No surprise there. That's what happens when you try to forcefeed your customers.
Hopefully, they will get it right. But if they stop selling it on June 30th, you can be sure we'll go through this "eliminate/bring back" process all over again. Dell does not understand that their business customers do not all want Vista. They will eventually understand that fact, though. It gets hard to ignore when your customer flee to your competitors.
if anyone bothered to read the license agreement on Windows software it states something like: you use-it on your own risk, micosoft is not responsible for any damage incurred during or because of the use... so what of not paying and still using the software, damage will come anyway :))
just kidding, but truth is out there for all to see-it. first you have to buy the pc, vista price included, then to pay another 50 $ over-it just to get the xp to be able to use-it with more/less worries...
wonder when they gonna supply empty/un-installed bare-bones ready to work, crap-ware free or with a "restore" cd/dvd attached for you to select and install home, if you chose to pay/use for...
apple i understand, they have the machines and software they sell together, if u feel like tinkering with it later, your choice, but systems are stable enough to be comfortable with
whatever, things will change soon, or people will stop buying crap ware loaded pc's...
just my 0.02$
If you like to use XP instead Vista, needs to pay BOTH Vista and XP to use only XP? North-american corporations are strange things... really.
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
The FDA has received more than 10,000 consumer complaints on Nutra-Sweet. That's 80% of all complaints about food additives, yet they have done nothing to alert the American consumer. (Ref 1) Could it be that Michael Dell, the Jewish owner of Nutra Sweet and Equal is a close friend of George Bush. Or could it be that Dell has outright control of the White House, with his massive financial support for the Christian Zionist George Bush. Dell once told me, "own anything addictive and legal." Nutrasweet is in about 9,000 foods and on every restaurant table for the same reasons tobacco is everywhere: Greed, addiction and profit. What he did not tell me was that people would suffer cancer, brain seizures, Alzheimers, multiple sclerosis, diabetes, epilepsy, mental retardation, fibromyalgia, lymphoma, Graves disease, birth defects, chronic fatigue syndrome, Parkinsons and ... death! From the use of his products. (Ref 2)
Michael Dell in India, his use of 3rd world and prison labor, has cost many honest white American's their jobs.
The artificial sweetener aspartame (NutraSweet, Equal, NatraTaste, Canderel) is without question the most toxic and health-destroying "food" sold to consumers. And is owned by Dell & Ajinomoto of Japan. (Ref 3)
Dellâ(TM)s use of taxpayer-subsidized prison labor, and his disregard for the environment, with his computer Ewaste. (Electronics are the fastest growing component of municipal garbage, and contain toxics like brominated fire retardants, lead, mercury, cadmium and other heavy metals.) Should give people an insight into what kind of demented capitalist he really is. (Ref 4) .
If they had listened to the marketplace, then they would have never removed it in the first place.
Note: I am mostly talking about the business market. I don't recall businesses clamoring to get their hands on Vista. Rather, I recall Dell/MSFT trying to shove it down our throats whether we wanted to "make the move" or not. And that's the problem right there: it's not Dell's decision. It's the purchaser's decision. Why not just offer both XP and Vista so you can cover all the options? It's not like we are talking about 1% of buyers or some insignificant amount of people. Lots and Lots of people wanted to stick with XP and flat out said so. Certainly, Dell could have figured out how to do that -- but they didn't do that. They assumed we all wanted Vista. Wrong!
Since they had to bring it back, I can only conclude they were not listening. Maybe they are now but my experience with Dell has gotten so bad in the last 2 years, that they are no longer my PC provider. This, after almost 15 years with them. Heck, I even bought their very first laptop -- a 486/33 SX back in the day. What I am saying is that I've had a LONG relationship with Dell. I really want Dell to succeed. It would make my life a LOT easier. This isn't sour grapes. This is simply me taking the path of least resistance. Unfortunately for Dell, they aren't on that path anymore. Other vendors are now.
Dell sells you the box without any software or OS installed, and takes $50 off the price?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
As I recall, 98 was offered on all retail computers without choice. Dell offered Red Hat for a short time but was promptly "Whacked" out of it. You could also get it long after the birth of XP for about $99 and sometimes less with the purchase of hardware. M$ was not nearly as pushy with 98 or XP as they were are with Vista. After a few years XP finally stabilized into the less buggy thing it was two years ago and M$ finally killed 98.
Vista is being pushed like Steve Ballmer has not eaten in seven years. That's contributing in a big way to the Vista's failure and the rise of GNU/Linux. The more shrill M$ acts with people like Peter Gutmann and Peter Quinn the quicker the rest of us will run away from them.
Vista had a lot of issues early on, but now it performs as well or better than XP. Vista SP1 x64 + Windows Search 4.0 gives a stable and responsive system.
You forgot to change account again.
"It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
I'm NOT getting a Dell.
Asshats.
See the Vista Failure to learn about consequences.
It makes sense that Dell would charge $50 to put on XP. Don't you remember the TV announcement, with the two gentlemen, one Mr. Ahpeecee and another Mr. Ahmack, discussing with the lovely P.R. lady that it is "an upgrade to a more familiar experience"?
Upgrade == adding value == added cost. Makes sense to me...
No, silly troll, I was intentionally raising the visibility of these things using my excellent karma. You will have to take the same hit to lower that visibility. In fact, I got pissed enough about being unfairly downmodded from +5 to -1 that I posted the same things upthread or your crap flood.
Microsoft can sell their products for whatever price they want. You do NOT have a right to preserve the status quo!
XP: $50
2000: $100
ME: $1,000
98: $200
98se: $250
95: $500
3.1: $2,000
BOB: $1,000,000 *but* Steve Ballmer comes to your house and personally installs it, and you have no chairs left when he's done.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
My Vostro 1510 cost £60 ($120) to downgrade to Win XP. I think even that was worth it.
I've tried my very best to be nice to Vista but its just not working. I've got a newish dual core Vista desktop at work - its even got 4GB RAM - and it just doesn't perform. I already kept my old desktop and installed Ubuntu and moved off all my database and web servers etc onto that machine because Vista couldn't cope.
The guy in charge of PC purchasing at work had been very insistent on new PCs running Vista. He's now changed his mind. I've paid £60 to have XP on my new laptop, and I'm replacing my new work desktop with my old XP laptop.
Microsoft pays people 50$ to take Vista ..
davecb5620@gmail.com
And MS won't sell XP without Vista. That's the point.
In actual fact, it worked out really well because I found a seller on eBay who resold new Dells that were cancelled orders from their customers - I got a brand new XPS 1710 from him, precisely the same spec as I'd asked Dell for, with XP on it and for £999.
The point I'm getting to is that Dell is taking the "easy" way out by doing this - they're still buying Vista licenses which keeps Microsoft happy but giving customers who want XP the chance to have it. Presumably the additional $50 covers the cost of installing it and/or the additional XP license.
In actuality, they're gutless, just like other PC hardware vendors. The fact is that Microsoft needs PCs as much as PCs need Windows, then the same vendors should stand up to Microsoft's bullying tactics and demand that MS supplies them with XP to meet the customer demand - it is NOT up to Microsoft to dictate what PCs are installed with.
So, yes, what Dell is doing does meet customer demand but it's a gutless, cowardly tactic because they're afraid to stand up to MS.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
no, its not a good deal. There are tons of xppro backup disks lying around. Weird Stuff in Sunnyvale has boxes of them- hundreds and they sell them for $20. Remember, XP loads on Dells without having to go through any kind of registration process. Just don't order a Dell with anything but linux on it. You can always duplicate the linux for free.
I'm new to this idiocy you've churned up, but I can offer up a hearty rofl. This absurd waste of time is about as well considered and persuasive as bad vista, only it's chock full of 'more of the same'!
Vista is dominating just as we all new it would. Your lengthy and excited list of all the failures doesn't make a bit of difference, and the people screaming about you make even less difference. Independent developers and hardware are all flocking to it and discovering that most of your complaints are devious lies or founded on willful ignorance. This only makes FLOSSY look more like the bow backed nag she is.
to summarize, massive FAIL for everyone here 'cepts me and my vista machines. HAND
:)Fudboy
I guess I'm only a Fudboy, looking for that real Transmeta
Steve Ballmer in closed-door meeting with the Microsoft board:
"Okay, we did great job by strong-arming hardware vendors to include a "Microsoft tax" with every piece they sell but here's how we are going to build on that success. We will develop an even more bloated and slow OS, because after all, we already know we can do that well . Let's call it... I don't know.. "Vista" or something catchy like that. We will then force the hardware makers to distribute that OS and phase out XP except for this: We won't REALLY phase out XP! We will make it so you have to buy Vista and also have to pay EXTRA for XP... get it? People will hate Vista and will be willing to shell out another $50 just to get good ol' XP. So, when Dell, or another tier-1 PC vendor, sells a piece hardware "chi-cing," we win and "chi-ching" we win again. Well, what do you think?... "
uh, +4 insightful? How about -100, troll? Nobody, even yourself, is as stupid as you are making yourself out to be. Therefore, intentionally stupid statement = troll.
I bought 4 computers from Dell in 2007. Each arrived with Windows XP and I than installed Ubuntu on 3 of them and claimed back the cost of the Microsoft software. Each time Dell paid up, albeit once only after I had threatened to take them to court if they did not pay up.
I explained to them that in the UK we have provision in law for unfair conditions in contracts, and that amongst those conditions are the type where the seller adds items to the contract which are not core to the thing being sold. So for instance, if you buy a car, the seller cannot require you to return to them to get the petrol tank filled.
I pointed out that since their computer would work without Windows, and since I did not want Windows, the requirement constituted an unfair condition.
Really. If enough people do this, they will learn.
Dell laptops (Vostro, in particular) are well-known to use hardware that makes installing the OS yourself difficult or even impossible. I remember reading a long thread about trying to get retail XP to install on the Vostro 1400 ending in failure. This was with large numbers of experienced Windows admins trying to convince XP to install.
What you get for your "downgrade" fee is more than just an XP license--you're getting Dell to certify the software and hardware and make 'em work.
Incidentally, have you ever attempted to install a retail Windows OS on a whitebox machine? I've only built one machine that I had intended to put Windows on (dual-boot), and try as I might, I just could not get the damn thing to install. Debian installed cleanly with zero hiccups and that machine has been running Deb ever since.
My point being: if you think you're going to get around this "downgrade" fee by purchasing a Windows license on your own, you are on some seriously shaky ground.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
Why didnt you just pay $50 to have WIN2000 installed instead?
In my capacity as a senior techie, at Cleyn&Tinker (a textile company) I once ordered several Dell PCs with Win2000, and the manager (choke!) overruled me and had his junior flunkie reinstall Win98 over the Win2K.
That's when I started to pay more attention to Dilbert.
Later on, the manager and an idiot-Luddite VP agreed that Compaq was much more a "Professional's PC" and the "cheap" Dells were slowly replaced with REAL AMERICAN BUSNISSMAN'S Compaqs!
Needless to say, the textile company is now out of business.
Say- is Compaq still in business?
.
- aqk
F U
However, our company still has 15 (out of an original 20) Win2k Compaq low-end workstations in production circa 2001. Of the other 5, 4 were retired -- replaced by more powerful PCs where needed) and one failed motherboard. Which failed in June 2006 (I just looked it up). The 15 serve out their lives as data entry workstations. Happily turning on and off and running smartterm. Our oldest dell workstation still in service is from 2005.
That said, I think dell server hardware is solid (in that I've had zero problems with it and their highest tier support is fantastic). We've got two. We also have an old compaq server (which I hate to the ends of the earth) that still hosts our old billing department database.
Go figure...
I have not found one positive thing to say about Windows Vista. I would pay more to use XP. I can't get past it's UAC, the super-crappy crippled Outlook Express that is Windows Mail, the super slowness, it not running smoothly on less than 2 gigs of RAM, the simple fact that it has the audacity to tell ME no. I can live with the GUI changes. Althought I don't understand why they thought it was a good idea to take menus off the windows. Menus have been there for more years than I can count. I do miss them.
---- "Excuse me. Where's the children's gun section?"