Computer Virus Aboard the ISS

Solid proof!!!! by Lumpy · 2008-08-27 00:58 · Score: 2, Insightful

That they need IT staff on the ISS.

Even astronauts are not smart enough to maintain and repair their computers.

Honestly though, Why the hell dont the laptops have anti virus software? if they are going to run a OS that is targeted by the bulk of viruses out there then it's dumb to send it up without AV software installed.

There is no reason for a email/nutritional PC to not run AV.

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Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.

Re:Solid proof!!!! by Tridus · 2008-08-27 01:00 · Score: 4, Insightful

Wow, someone who actually believes AV software stops viruses effectively?

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-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
Re:Solid proof!!!! by adpsimpson · 2008-08-27 01:02 · Score: 1, Insightful

Honestly though, Why the hell dont the laptops have Linux? ... There is no reason for a email/nutritional PC to not run linux.
There, fixed that for ya.

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Is crushing a suspect's child's testicles illegal?
John Yoo: "No, [if] the President thinks he needs to do that."
Re:Solid proof!!!! by totally_mad · 2008-08-27 01:04 · Score: 5, Funny

You don't really understand. There is nothing they could have done to prevent the worm. The astronaut was installing Outlook which asked them to "close all software like antivirus and firewall which may interfere with the installation". The rest is history...
Re:Solid proof!!!! by rktechhead · 2008-08-27 01:14 · Score: 4, Informative

One should expect this kind of thing, being intelligent doesn't automatically mean you are proficient with computers. Perhaps NASA should give their personnel a quick refresher on computer security.
Alas, while AV doesn't stop everything it is a lot better than not having it at all. A good AV scanner probably could have prevented this. Which again is why they should be giving them that little bit of training if they aren't already.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by TheRaven64 · 2008-08-27 01:15 · Score: 4, Insightful

Antivirus software is typically only effective if regularly updated. In machines that aren't networked, getting these updates is very tricky.

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I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Re:Solid proof!!!! by ByOhTek · 2008-08-27 01:17 · Score: 1

Honestly though, Why the hell dont the laptops have Minix? ... There is no reason for a email/nutritional PC to not run </B>Minix</B>.</BLOCKQUOTE>

There, fixed that for ya.</BLOCKQUOTE>

You made a mistake, hope you don't mind that I corrected it.

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Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
Re:Solid proof!!!! by ByOhTek · 2008-08-27 01:18 · Score: 3, Funny

So much for extrans.

I _FAIL_

--
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
Re:Solid proof!!!! by El_Muerte_TDS · 2008-08-27 01:19 · Score: 4, Funny

Honestly though, Why the hell dont the laptops have Minix?

Because Minix doesn't support text formatting.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by Thelasko · 2008-08-27 01:22 · Score: 5, Funny

Honestly though, Why the hell dont the laptops have anti virus software? if they are going to run a OS that is targeted by the bulk of viruses out there then it's dumb to send it up without AV software installed.
It looks like Mark Shuttleworth might have to make another trip up there to drop off some Ubuntu disks.

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One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
Re:Solid proof!!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2008-08-27 01:23 · Score: 1

That they need IT staff on the ISS.
Even astronauts are not smart enough to maintain and repair their computers.
Honestly though, Why the hell dont the laptops have anti virus software? if they are going to run a OS that is targeted by the bulk of viruses out there then it's dumb to send it up without AV software installed.
There is no reason for a email/nutritional PC to not run AV.
They couldn't aford the extra 40 mill it was going to cost to add four copies of a $40 antivirus software. Government specs are a bitch.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2008-08-27 01:29 · Score: 1, Funny

More importantly, it has no applications.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by Lumpy · 2008-08-27 01:32 · Score: 2, Informative

They stop really old Viruses like that one effectively, even CLamAV detects and cleans that one.
so yeah, AV would have prevented this one, it would have been effective.

--
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by muffen · 2008-08-27 01:41 · Score: 2, Funny

That they need IT staff on the ISS.
Even astronauts are not smart enough to maintain and repair their computers.
Honestly though, Why the hell dont the laptops have anti virus software? if they are going to run a OS that is targeted by the bulk of viruses out there then it's dumb to send it up without AV software installed.
There is no reason for a email/nutritional PC to not run AV.
AV on astronaut laptops, are you crazy?
What we need to do is send this virus to aliens!

Didn't you learn _anything_ from Independece Day?
Re:Solid proof!!!! by afxgrin · 2008-08-27 02:07 · Score: 1

In the end, if you're being targeted specifically by a hacker, using anti-virus software and firewall protection can only go so far. But to prevent casual infection by old viruses, using AV software certainly helps. It's especially good for people that have no idea what they're doing on their computer besides using Word, checking email, and surfing the web.
I believe!
Re:Solid proof!!!! by arth1 · 2008-08-27 02:11 · Score: 1

No, a good AV scanner would not have prevented this, unless the AV scanner was updated after the virus came out. See, virus writers do test their viruses to ensure that it's not detected by the current crop of AV programs, so they get a bigger window for infection.
In space, without Internet access, it's pretty clear that the AV software will not be kept up to date.
The real problem here is with letting the astronauts bring with them memory sticks that haven't been analyzed by experts on earth first. There's lots of stories about astronauts having smuggled with them the oddest things, and this has been going on for decades.
It's about time that NASA stops trusting the astronauts, and start subjecting them to some precautionary frisking. Anything not expressly allowed and signed for by someone who puts their job on the line by signing should be forbidden.
And any successful bypass of this should lead to immediate termination by ejection. Well, termination as soon as humanely possible, at least. :-)
Re:Solid proof!!!! by rsmoody · 2008-08-27 02:18 · Score: 1, Funny

Send the Geek Squad...I volunteer. (yes I work at Best Buy..hey, the discount rocks!)

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45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Re:Solid proof!!!! by Briden · 2008-08-27 02:34 · Score: 2, Informative

"In space, without Internet access, it's pretty clear that the AV software will not be kept up to date." .. i think that's an incorrect assumption, normally, they do have internet connections, so, it could easily be kept up to date. until of course, the virus brought down their internet connection, which is no different than what could happen here.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2008-08-27 02:35 · Score: 1, Funny

more s/w = more bits
more bits = more weight
more weight = more $$ to launch
thus they decided to make the install as lean as possible. i heard linux installs all this crazy unnecessary stuff for you.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by Progman3K · 2008-08-27 02:57 · Score: 1

Honestly though, Why the hell dont the laptops have OSX? ... There is no reason for a email/nutritional PC to not run OSX.
Because Linux is less expensive.
// fixed that for all you zombies

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I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
Re:Solid proof!!!! by alexborges · 2008-08-27 03:01 · Score: 3, Informative

EVEN clamav?
Man, clamav is better than most.

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NO SIG
Re:Solid proof!!!! by alexborges · 2008-08-27 03:03 · Score: 2, Insightful

Irrelevant.
THey shouldnt be using windows, precisely because of this risk.
And thats that.

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NO SIG
Re:Solid proof!!!! by eat+here_get+gas · 2008-08-27 03:08 · Score: 1

[quote]...The laptops have no net connection; ...[/quote]

there is internet in inner-space?

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the significance of a signature is insignificant
Re:Solid proof!!!! by Caldrak · 2008-08-27 03:17 · Score: 1

Updates exist to protect you from new virus threats. As the machines aren't networked, getting those new viruses would be very tricky as well. The real question is why wasn't joe spaceman's usb key scanned (assuming he brought it) as well as all other computer equipment before the shuttle took off?
Re:Solid proof!!!! by gnick · 2008-08-27 03:20 · Score: 1

"In space, without Internet access, it's pretty clear that the AV software will not be kept up to date." .. i think that's an incorrect assumption, normally, they do have internet connections, so, it could easily be kept up to date. until of course, the virus brought down their internet connection, which is no different than what could happen here.
But, with no Internet connection, the AV software doesn't really need to be kept up to date. The odds of an astronaut carrying a virus into space on a thumb drive that is so new/obscure that the current AV patch doesn't include it yet are (sorry) astronomically low - This one was first detected just over a year ago.
Or, probably a better alternative, is to forbid the astronauts from connecting private media to NASA hardware. I realize they need recreation, music, family photos, etc - But not at the cost of jeopardizing a hugely expensive mission. Then, no AV should be necessary - As long as the laptop's clean when it goes up, it stays clean.
Some insight: http://xkcd.com/463/

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He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by johndpalm · 2008-08-27 03:25 · Score: 1

That they need IT staff on the ISS.
Even astronauts are not smart enough to maintain and repair their computers.
Honestly though, Why the hell dont the laptops have anti virus software? if they are going to run a OS that is targeted by the bulk of viruses out there then it's dumb to send it up without AV software installed.
There is no reason for a email/nutritional PC to not run AV.
Really? "Astronauts are not smart enough?" "Anti-virus software?" You are a fool...
Re:Solid proof!!!! by Antique+Geekmeister · 2008-08-27 03:25 · Score: 1

There are plenty. Radiation hardened hardware is expensive, and usually seriously underpowered. Tools like Norton and Symantec anti-virus insert themselves into the kernel, interfere with other software, burn system RAM and CPU time and cooling, often slow boot times, and can block other proprietary software applicatons (such as whatever the ISS uses for its equipment) in ways that are painful to diagnose. When those computers control critical functions, you _do_not_ run extra software on them.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by MrNaz · 2008-08-27 03:50 · Score: 5, Funny

The reason NASA didn't bother with AV is because there's no pressure on their IT department. In a normal office, the IT department usually gets screamed at when computers don't work. But in space, nobody can hear you scream.

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I hate printers.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by nospam007 · 2008-08-27 04:17 · Score: 2, Funny

It was a pirated copy of some stuff that installed the virus.
At least we now may have real 'Space Pirates'.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by Plugh · 2008-08-27 04:29 · Score: 1, Insightful

Quoth MrNaz:
The reason NASA didn't bother with AV is because there's no pressure on their IT department.
BINGO!! In a government bureaucracy, there is no market competition... so we should not be surprised at the Soviet level of performance at NASA, the DMV, or the USPS.
That's why, as an avid fan of space exploration, I oppose the very existence of NASA. I'd like private companies to compete for my donated dollar, for advertiser dollars, and for talented employees.
Just one more reason I moved to New Hampshire.

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Part of the Second American Revolution!
Re:Solid proof!!!! by intangible · 2008-08-27 04:50 · Score: 1

Your father wanted you to have this watch.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by geekoid · 2008-08-27 04:56 · Score: 2, Insightful

Oh, bullshit.
Our IT dept. his head and shoulders any IT I have dealt with when I was in the private sector.
No company is going to make space probes just for science. NASA is needed for that kind of exploration.
That kind of exploration bring many benefits to you and I, benefits that would be less likely to get if a corporation were to to space exploration at this point.
I am hopeful that more and more basic launches move to the private sector, and NASA become more focused on the edge of exploration.

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The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Re:Solid proof!!!! by Plugh · 2008-08-27 05:08 · Score: 1, Insightful

If NASA is so great, why is it that the only way you can get funding is to threaten to throw my ass in jail if I don't feel like paying for it?!?!

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Part of the Second American Revolution!
Re:Solid proof!!!! by aetherworld · 2008-08-27 05:25 · Score: 2, Insightful

They do have Norton Antivirus installed.
No joke. However, this tells us what operating system they run. Which is a joke if you ask me...
Re:Solid proof!!!! by Ilgaz · 2008-08-27 05:26 · Score: 1

If they insist on using Windows at space, only application which is paranoid enough to defend against everything, even imaginary threats is Kaspersky AV. As they are Russian company, it is out of question of course. It also needs to be configured at insanely maximum levels which may mean saying bye to half of CPU speed and power.
Of course there is no point of using a insecure by design OS while NSA funded SE Linux exists.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by arth1 · 2008-08-27 05:36 · Score: 1

Your father wanted you to have this watch.
Then you need to get the watch checked out by security before bringing it on the shuttle.
Cause your father probably didn't want you to lose your job because of the watch.
I can see it happening, and if the watch has a breakable glass, you may end up with the cockpit full of tiny drifting broken glass pieces. Which is why I'm pretty sure that astronauts are given watches with unbreakable crystals.
Again, not a single thing should ever go on a shuttle without having been cleared by someone willing to put their name on it and risk their career over it. No matter what it is.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by geekoid · 2008-08-27 05:42 · Score: 1

"... being intelligent doesn't automatically mean you are proficient with computers. "
and vise versa

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The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Re:Solid proof!!!! by mstahl · 2008-08-27 05:58 · Score: 1

In machines that aren't networked, it's also hard to catch viruses.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by More_Cowbell · 2008-08-27 06:00 · Score: 1

Come on.

If NASA is so great, why is it that the only way you can get funding is to threaten to throw my ass in jail if I don't feel like paying for it?!?!

If ANYTHING TAX FUNDED LIKE PUBLIC SCHOOL is so great, why is it that the only way you can get funding is to threaten to throw my ass in jail if I don't feel like paying for it?!?!

See how that works?

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Experience teaches only the teachable. -AH
Re:Solid proof!!!! by DriedClexler · 2008-08-27 06:09 · Score: 1

until of course, the virus brought down their internet connection, which is no different than what could happen here.
I'd say that's quite a bit different than what could happen here! On earth, even if you lose your internet connection, you can still get the necessary update via sneakernet, or maybe tirenet or copternet. In space, all you have is rocketnet.

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Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by toolie · 2008-08-27 06:15 · Score: 2, Informative

But, with no Internet connection, the AV software doesn't really need to be kept up to date.
Not exactly true. We are mandated to keep AV software updated (I think weekly) on our machines that aren't hooked to any network at all - internal or external. This isn't mandated by the IT department or Security or anything, but the DoD. Of course, these are the same rules that require three (or was it six?) feet of space between machines (even air conditioning units) from every other.
They should just toss a CD with the latest definition updates for AV software of choice in with the regular supplies. Problem semi-solved.

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-- toolie
Re:Solid proof!!!! by Your.Master · 2008-08-27 06:35 · Score: 3, Insightful

Soviet-style public schools. That's great.
Even your radical freestateproject.org link wants the government to protect our rights. I presume this is done via a police and/or court system.

If our rights are so great, why is it that the only way you can get funding is to threaten to throw my ass in jail if I don't feel like paying for it?!?!
First, I have to interject here: are you planning to go into a barter system? Or are you hoping that everybody in free association will select a common medium of exchange?
The fact is that capitalism selects for profitability (obviously), and profitability is not necessarily the same thing as greatness. It's an optimization heuristic. It is not a truly optimal algorithm. NASA, and public schools, are attempts to tweak our heuristics to be more optimal. Sometimes our tweaks fail. That does not mean that all tweaks are inherently doomed to fail. Nor does it mean that we should abandon the basic heuristic of capitalism.
If, philosophically, you have a problem with tax-funded anything, then that's okay and you can explain that problem. But to claim that a tax-funded thing is bad because the market is necessarily better, you must first show that the market creates truly optimal conditions at all times in all places.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by jlarocco · 2008-08-27 06:51 · Score: 2, Insightful

If ANYTHING TAX FUNDED LIKE PUBLIC SCHOOL is so great, why is it that the only way you can get funding is to threaten to throw my ass in jail if I don't feel like paying for it?!?!

See how that works?

Yes, I do. And it's a good question.
If public schools are so great, why can't they compete against private schools in a voucher system? If the government run schools are so much better, they'd beat out the privately run schools and we'd end up right back where we are now, right?
Microsoft has a "monopoly" when there are half a dozen alternatives and the people here are outraged. The government has a forced monopoly on something 100x more important, and people act like it's the best thing since sliced bread. How's that work?
The government can't even run a restaurant without offering poor quality and losing millions of dollars. Why in god's name would you want to trust them with anything important?

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Maybe not
Re:Solid proof!!!! by shadowkiller137 · 2008-08-27 06:52 · Score: 1

only if he did it on a Virgin Galactic spacecraft
Re:Solid proof!!!! by tattood · 2008-08-27 07:19 · Score: 1

If NASA is so great, why is it that the only way you can get funding is to threaten to throw my ass in jail if I don't feel like paying for it?!?!
You are not paying a specific tax that goes for NASA. You pay general taxes, which the government uses to pay for NASA, education, etc. While your idea of private funded space exploration is nice, the hundred bucks that you and some other like-minded people choose to donate does not compete with the hundred million to billion dollar budgets required to build and operate a space operation.

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WTB [sig], PST!!!
Re:Solid proof!!!! by tattood · 2008-08-27 07:24 · Score: 1

The problem isn't that they needed AV on the computers. The problem that there were no checks to make sure that unsecured (a.k.a the astronaut's personal USB drive) devices made it onto the shuttle in the first place.

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WTB [sig], PST!!!
Re:Solid proof!!!! by Culture20 · 2008-08-27 07:43 · Score: 1

Why the hell dont the laptops have anti virus software?
You're doing it wrong. I'm not even going to post a link to the xkcd cartoon.
The real solution is epoxy in the USB ports, turn off USB mass storage drivers, and confiscation of portable storage from the Astronauts.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by TeknoHog · 2008-08-27 08:01 · Score: 1

The reason NASA didn't bother with AV is because there's no pressure on their IT department..... But in space, nobody can hear you scream.
Duh, the lack of pressure is the very reason nobody can hear you scream.

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Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by jcjewell · 2008-08-27 08:12 · Score: 1

Antivirus software is typically only effective if regularly updated. In machines that aren't networked, getting these updates is very tricky.
Not so tricky-- Use a thumb drive! The article points out that the astronauts can use them.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by Warbothong · 2008-08-27 08:22 · Score: 1

Honestly though, Why the hell dont the laptops have anti virus software?
Antivirus software would've weighed too much.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by isorox · 2008-08-27 08:27 · Score: 2, Informative

EVEN clamav?
Man, clamav is better than most.
How can I persuade my info security department of that given things like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ClamAV#Comparisons ?
Re:Solid proof!!!! by dave87656 · 2008-08-27 09:43 · Score: 1

Even Anti-Virus software only works on known viruses or virus patterns.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by lysergic.acid · 2008-08-27 11:19 · Score: 1

actually, it's quite easy if you have a removable disk drive/storage media. even in the early 90's when home networking wasn't all that popular (and the internet wasn't even commercially available to most) viruses were fairly common. they were just transmitted by the main means of data transmission those days: 5.25" floppies.
these days people don't use floppies as much as data is transferred via the network most of the time, so that's also how most viruses get through. but this incident shows that viruses will be transmitted by whatever means through which you transfer data between systems.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by Plugh · 2008-08-27 12:12 · Score: 1

I would think the burden of proof is on the group that is willing to throw people in jail "for the common good", rather than the group that prefers to allow people to trade in goods and services freely.
Anyway, if you'd like a good writeup of the concept, I would recommend David Friedman's book The Machinery of Freedom. David is the son of the late-great Nobel-prizewinning economist Milton. He simply takes his father's ideas to their logical conclusion.

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Part of the Second American Revolution!
Re:Solid proof!!!! by Laebshade · 2008-08-28 00:19 · Score: 1

Edit the Wikipedia article to meet your needs?
Seriously though, I use ClamAV on my home PC and work PC; while I never do anything on my work PC to get a virus/trojan/whatever, I have done it on my home PC and recently; ClamAV (Clamwin) has found more than a few viruses in the past 6 months.
Until Clamwin comes with an on-access scanner though, most people are going to continue to snub their nose at it. Personally, I like the fact it doesn't have an on-access scanner.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by Sj0 · 2008-08-28 01:47 · Score: 1

More importantly, odds are you're not paying for it anyway. Republicans are in office, and they don't pay for things, they just run up debts they don't intend for this generation to pay back.
If you even THINK about raising taxes to meet spending, you're a radical left-wing liberal nutjob communist.

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It's been a long time.
Re:Solid proof!!!! by tehcyder · 2008-08-28 02:12 · Score: 1

The government has a forced monopoly on something 100x more important, and people act like it's the best thing since sliced bread

I really doubt that the US is more socialist than the UK when it comes to education, but even here you can't say that the state schools are a monopoly. You can pay to send your kids to private fee-paying schools (i.e. "public schools" in the UK just to confuse things...) if you want, no-one's stopping you.
The wonderful efficiency of the free market means that Eton and Harrow are open to the sons of Dukes and dustmen alike.

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To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Re:Solid proof!!!! by jlarocco · 2008-08-28 05:58 · Score: 1

Actually, it's worse than a monopoly because you have to pay for it no matter what. You can send your kids to a private fee-paying school here also, but you still pay taxes to fund the public schools, meaning you pay twice. A voucher system fixes that - everybody gets a set base amount to spend on education and individuals can add to that if they want to.

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Maybe not
Re:Solid proof!!!! by shagghie · 2008-08-28 08:56 · Score: 1

So much for 'air gap' security.....
Re:Solid proof!!!! by ewanm89 · 2008-08-28 14:34 · Score: 1

In fact, where do you think satellite net connections are routed? And I agree, these systems should not be running windows, certainly nothing mission critical.

Even In Space by Skeetskeetskeet · 2008-08-27 00:58 · Score: 3, Funny

Microsoft can't hear you scream.

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Yeah, my karma sucks....but so do the mods.

Re:Even In Space by Anonymous Coward · 2008-08-27 01:17 · Score: 1, Informative

They can, and are about the only thing that can. They just don't care...

Life will find a way. by IndustrialComplex · 2008-08-27 00:58 · Score: 2, Interesting

And to think that I hated that line. Unfortunately for the life from a meteorite theory, computer viruses are a bit more resiliant to the extremes of space.

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Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj

No antivirus? by totally_mad · 2008-08-27 00:59 · Score: 2, Interesting

To top it all, NASA says in the same breath that they are investigating how the worm got abort and that the austronauts' laptops don't have any anti-virus software... Go figure!

Re:No antivirus? by BabyDave · 2008-08-27 01:17 · Score: 5, Funny

>p>To be fair, it's because they know the real reason that the Mir space station came down ...

"Norton Antivirus has detected that the following file is infected with a virus:
gyrocontrol.dll
The infected file has been deleted
Re:No antivirus? by Timosch · 2008-08-27 03:21 · Score: 1

Reminds me of the old joke: "The MIR is to be shut down soon. In order to speed this process up, its operating system is switched to Windows 98".

Ob... by Rogerborg · 2008-08-27 00:59 · Score: 1

Berserkers!

Now someone do SkyNet...

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If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.

One has to ask by toby · 2008-08-27 01:00 · Score: 5, Insightful

What *Windows* is doing in space in the first place.

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you had me at #!

Re:One has to ask by Gori · 2008-08-27 01:06 · Score: 4, Funny

My thoughts exactly. There is no reboot after you hit the Blue Planet Of Death...
*ducks*

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Complexity is a measure of our ignorance...
Re:One has to ask by halfEvilTech · 2008-08-27 01:09 · Score: 2, Funny

What *Windows* is doing in space in the first place.
because it is already considered a large waste of 'space'
Re:One has to ask by mlush · 2008-08-27 01:42 · Score: 5, Funny

What *Windows* is doing in space in the first place.
I've always thought that opening Windows on a space ship is a bad thing
Re:One has to ask by JamesP · 2008-08-27 01:48 · Score: 1

No, the problem is not Windows in space
The problem is having only one Windows copy thrown into the emptiness of nothing...

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how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
Re:One has to ask by steveb3210 · 2008-08-27 02:04 · Score: 1

My thoughts exactly. There is no reboot after you hit the Blue Planet Of Death...
*ducks*
You mean windows is in Uranus?.. I'm sorry, I just couldn't help myself...
Re:One has to ask by OverZealous.com · 2008-08-27 02:18 · Score: 1

My thoughts exactly. There is no reboot after you hit the Blue Sphere Of Death...
There, fixed that for ya...
Re:One has to ask by Sleepy · 2008-08-27 02:24 · Score: 1

Politics.
Look at all the money Microsoft donated to the Bush election campaigns.
This was the FIRST TIME Microsoft threw serious money at an election.
True, this money was intended to get the new White House to FORFEIT the Justice case after they had already won, but this kind of money buys good levels of government contacts. You don't offend your political patrons.
NASA was heavily UNIX (or other 'nix-like OS's). Much of NASA runs Microsoft Exchange now.
I wouldn't be surprised if NASA uses ".net" (any part of it, or all of it.. the buzzword is deliberately amorphous).
I'm not sure if NASA should be using Linux or not, but presumably they should be running DEDICATED OS's in embeddable form. A general purpose OS should be prohibited as an attack vector.
This also begs the question, why the hell is that Windows machine STILL configured to 'autorun' on media devices, and why are users gaining Administrative level accounts? (Yes I understand that shit is difficult to get working under 'Limited User' accounts, but all that should have been resolved in advance, if they insisted on Windows...)
Re:One has to ask by Anonymous Coward · 2008-08-27 02:37 · Score: 4, Funny

I've always thought that opening Windows on a space ship is a bad thing
Yes, the results would prove conclusively that Windows quite literally suck(s).
Re:One has to ask by Deadplant · 2008-08-27 03:42 · Score: 1

You win this thread.
Re:One has to ask by dpilot · 2008-08-27 03:42 · Score: 3, Informative

Isn't this an FAQ?
These laptops are convenience machines, for writing reports, spreadsheets, maybe even a little gaming.
There is no connection between the laptops and the embedded computers that actually run the ISS systems, and those computers do NOT run Windows. For that matter, they probably don't run Linux, but more likely some 10 or 15 year old Unix variation that was already well proven when the ISS bids went out.
The laptops may connect to experiments - that I don't know.
Since they are convenience machines, with no planned networking, and since when they were put out for bid, Windows was the most convenient OS to use, that's what they have. That's also not to say that Linux laptop may not make it up there, some time.
Don't pretend that there's any sort of IT architecture on the ISS for anything but the base plan. Everything is spec and bid.
I would hope that they have image CDs up there, and not just for virus removal. I can see wanting to reimage some of the laptops for each new ISS crew, and some for each new shuttle visit. I wouldn't want to keep "history" on any of them - not without backup.

--
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Re:One has to ask by BPPG · 2008-08-27 05:31 · Score: 1

I've always thought that being able to compile your own kernel was a great advantage of Linux. Come back when your 'real OS' is 99% virus proof, and you can prove that there's absolutely no back doors.
Also, I'm not sure if you're actually serious, because you sound so juvenile that you might just be a fellow Linux nerd making fun of Windows fanboy-ism.

--
What's the value of information that you don't know?

I'd be willing to wager by RisingSon · 2008-08-27 01:00 · Score: 4, Funny

that Captain Kirk picked up something nasty from those green bitches. Damn space viruses.

Re:I'd be willing to wager by VitaminB52 · 2008-08-27 01:08 · Score: 1

To boldly go where no computer virus went before ....
Re:I'd be willing to wager by BPPG · 2008-08-27 05:40 · Score: 2, Funny

Damn borg chicks.

--
What's the value of information that you don't know?

NASA needs Linux by MrSmith0011000100110 · 2008-08-27 01:04 · Score: 5, Insightful

This is even further proof that NASA(as well as most every other major organization) needs to move away from the virus laden, insecure, corporate blunder we call Microsoft. Sure Exchange is a great mail system but its still just an iteration of a wheel that was created long before it. Were a giant like NASA or Boeing or Lockheed Martin or the US Govt itself to step away from the Microsoft Corporation, we'd start to see whatever the new adoptee was (preferably Linux) take some serious light and hopefully outshine the Gates machine.

Re:NASA needs Linux by name*censored* · 2008-08-27 01:36 · Score: 3, Insightful

This isn't necessarily a problem with Microsoft/Windows (although they certainly could have had a better security system), it's a problem with monoculture. Each vulnerability discovered opens up mind-bogglingly large amounts of computers to hacking, so all of the black hats are focusing their efforts on one small goal (making at least one of them succeed very quickly). This also means that exploits relying on uncommon settings (ones that rely on the target having say, two separate unrelated applications installed) are researched, where they might not have been worth the effort otherwise.
Although you have a point about big companies stepping away from Microsoft. Linux is open source, no-architecture-lock-in, and comes with so many different distros with so many different default settings, that the monoculture problem would be replaced with many-more-but-easier-to-manageable problems (think "Asteroids"). The other advantage that a polyculture OS world would offer is halting the SPREAD of the virii - if an exploit relies on someone to have XYZ system/configuration, it wouldn't necessarily be able to spread through the "fire-breaks" of ABC or DEF systems/configurations (and since most home computers nowadays are Microsoft's XYZ systems/configurations, there's no "fire breaks").

--
Commodore64_love: I don't comprehend people who're so frightened of death that they'll bankrupt themselves to stay alive
Re:NASA needs Linux by Anonymous Coward · 2008-08-27 01:52 · Score: 1, Informative

Funny thing: after leaving this thread, I saw the Linux.com thing on the side of Slashdot. At the top was: PostPath: Enterprise-strength open source alternative for Exchange.
Re:NASA needs Linux by velen · 2008-08-27 02:01 · Score: 1

Amen to that. SELinux with text mode email while we are at it.
Re:NASA needs Linux by gad_zuki! · 2008-08-27 02:05 · Score: 1

Or they could just stop running as local admins. Regardless of OS, if they dont take secure steps then they'll always fall into some trouble. Its just a lot more obvious in Windows.
The astronauts should have a separate account for local admin tasks and they should be using a limited user account for everything else. Not doing this is just like running as root 24/7.
The real problem with windows culture is the assumption that people can get away with running as admin 24/7. They cant.
Re:NASA needs Linux by TorKlingberg · 2008-08-27 03:25 · Score: 1

There can be Windows user level viruses too. There aren't many, because most people are running as local admin anyway.
Re:NASA needs Linux by gad_zuki! · 2008-08-27 04:17 · Score: 1

That's fine. But the first step it to get people off of admin. Userland viruses arent going to be able to do 90% of the things current viruses do. They will also be trivially easy to remove.
Re:NASA needs Linux by bryansj · 2008-08-27 04:33 · Score: 1

As far as my employment as a design engineer at two out of those three companies is concerned they were using many Unix based systems. CATIA was widely used on IBM AIX machines, but now the latest version of CATIA (Version 5) is native to Windows. The CATIA port to Unix was very poor and is no longer supported at my company. As a result, most of the AIX workstations are being mothballed as new projects begin.
Re:NASA needs Linux by mistahkurtz · 2008-08-27 16:01 · Score: 1

end users, office schmucks, and regular people use windows. because it's quick and easy. you do realize that the nasa datacenter runs linux? last i heard it was a redhat variant, but i'm sure that's changed. boeing and lockheed, since they do so much government work, and likely designed at least parts of the *nix-like systems at the true core of the DOD's systems, almost certainly do as well. every enterprise i know of deploys linux or unix where it makes sense, and windows where it makes sense.

desktops and laptops are throw-away items, and, aside from specialized users (who would receive or would have already received specialized training) - nobody wants to train a spreadsheet-maker or report typer how to use csh, or fix X when it crashes, or use emacs, vi, or even cat when things go crazy. unless you're offering?

on another note, i'd be willing to bet that a majority of the peole who whine or poke fun of windows is running on a windows box.

--
not only is time travel possible, it's irrelevant.
Re:NASA needs Linux by porttikivi · 2008-08-27 17:13 · Score: 1

"...is just a reiteration of a wheel"? So you prefer reinventing wheels?

--
Anssi Porttikivi / app@iki.fi

Mutations? by k33l0r · 2008-08-27 01:05 · Score: 1

Beware the mutations that will, as bad science movies have taught us, inevitably happen. The destruction of all life on Earth is nigh.

Re:Mutations? by mstahl · 2008-08-27 06:22 · Score: 1

Is it just me or did a LOT of people leaving comments here totally ignore the first word of the article title?
Re:Mutations? by k33l0r · 2008-08-27 06:34 · Score: 1

No! They will return and destroy our Earthly technology.

Jeff Goldblum planned it that way by Anonymous Coward · 2008-08-27 01:07 · Score: 2, Funny

That's what the laptop virus is there for - you can't be too careful.

USB drive viruses by omfglearntoplay · 2008-08-27 01:07 · Score: 1

Nobody in NASA should need AV software if they don't touch the internet... except for the fact that viruses hang out on USB sticks now. I've seen at least one myself, and I think it depended on a Windows autorun file similar to what runs CDs for the masses.

Can someone with more experience explain how to avoid USB stick viruses? Are you safe if you have a USB stick that doesn't have any proprietary software, or will the good ole Windows auto-open or autorun screw you regardless?

Re:USB drive viruses by Anonymous Coward · 2008-08-27 01:19 · Score: 2, Insightful

Simply disable the autorun service for USBs. That will make your computer safe from yet another of the many, many moronic ideas of Windows developers.
Also, computer viruses like those cannot be detected normally under Windows XP, but on Windows 98/Millenium (which don't have autorun for USB sticks) they appear in their full glory. AND they will screw you as soon as you auto-open one. Then you'll need to remove them from your hard disk (and of course, the virus files cannot be detected normally under Windows XP)
Re:USB drive viruses by itsthebin · 2008-08-27 01:25 · Score: 2, Informative

start --> run --> gpedit.msc

admin templates --> system --> turn off autoplay ... enable

though if you doubleclick on the drive letter in "my computer" you will run the autorun.inf on the drive - so untrusted drives , explore first.

--
...I obey the laws of physics....
Re:USB drive viruses by PawNtheSandman · 2008-08-27 01:28 · Score: 1

Set USB devices to not auto run.
Re:USB drive viruses by aadvancedGIR · 2008-08-27 01:44 · Score: 1

That was exactly the idea of the IT team of a place where I worked a few years ago, no external connection = no risk. Then one day, someone brought an infected floppy (it turned out later it was for perfectly work-related reasons) and the virus infected the 1000+ unpatched PC of the site in a couple of minutes.
And for the USB, yes, they now are considered by Windows as valid autorun devices under the presure of the stick makers who wanted to "add value" to their products (yet, I haven't seen any of these applications being more usefull than a virus). I've seen of those virus, but since it has a USB only propagation technique, it wasn't very widespread (only half of the team PC and a couple of sticks).
Re:USB drive viruses by hmar · 2008-08-27 03:15 · Score: 1

I use a USB stick with a physical write protect switch. If I plug it into anything other than my computer, it is locked. I only write from my own computer(s) that I know are secure.
Re:USB drive viruses by lord_sarpedon · 2008-08-27 03:40 · Score: 1

I'd like to point out that the moronic part is that running a program can be dangerous. It's a shitty idea that's been floating around for decades. Multi-user systems like UNIX (and more recently, Windows) have long been designed with the idea that a program run by a user _is_ the user effectively, and can do anything the user can do.
This idea doesn't work now.
Like on the OLPC, we need to realize that a program's permissions are merely a _subset_ of the owning user's permissions. We see countless higher-level workarounds for this, such as the security mechanisms in Java and .NET - move it down a bit farther and we'd have a lot less problems.
gedit shouldn't be able to delete my home directory. Solitaire shouldn't be able to spy on me with my mic.
Untrusted executable code should still be safe to run, barring explicit permission for dangerous things. Anything else is a failure of US on the behalf of EVERYONE ELSE.

--
"Strangers have the best candy" -Me
Re:USB drive viruses by BrokenHalo · 2008-08-27 04:34 · Score: 1

except for the fact that viruses hang out on USB sticks now.

I really don't see that this is so very much different from the viruses I used to write (*ahem*, oops) back in the early 14th century when we all used 5.25" floppy dicks. (;-))

The take-home message is that, just as in a sexual relationship, you have to be a bit careful where you stick your "stick".
Re:USB drive viruses by isorox · 2008-08-27 09:20 · Score: 1

We see countless higher-level workarounds for this, such as the security mechanisms in Java and .NET - move it down a bit farther and we'd have a lot less problems.
gedit shouldn't be able to delete my home directory. Solitaire shouldn't be able to spy on me with my mic.
So, apparmor?
It can work when software (or at least a hash of the software and a list of permissions) comes from central repositories, and you trust those repositories, but the culture of the (complex) find-a-site/find-a-download-page/click/click/click download applications, or go-to-shop/buy-package/insert-cd/click/click/click software wont work. The software will say "This software requires all features, Allow/Cancel?", and the average user wont give a monkeys.
Re:USB drive viruses by omfglearntoplay · 2008-09-10 09:36 · Score: 1

Thanks, I was hoping this would do the trick.

Geez... by VE3OGG · 2008-08-27 01:07 · Score: 5, Funny

Network security really isn't that hard! It isn't like it's rocket scie... oh... nevermind...

Re:Geez... by Kingrames · 2008-08-27 02:21 · Score: 1

In their defense, it's not rocket surgery.

--
If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.

NASA's distro? by Vinegar+Joe · 2008-08-27 01:13 · Score: 1

What happened to Flight Linux?

--
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes

Who to believe? by Anonymous Coward · 2008-08-27 01:16 · Score: 1, Informative

Slashdot: "The laptops have no net connection"

Article: "The laptops infected with the virus were used to run nutritional programs and let the astronauts periodically send e-mail back to Earth."

Re:Who to believe? by IndustrialComplex · 2008-08-27 02:20 · Score: 1

Well duh, email is different than internets. You need a pretty long tube to send any internets from the ISS.

--
Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj

This sounds like a great movie plot... by Steeltalon · 2008-08-27 01:17 · Score: 3, Funny

Will there be an Andromeda Strain of this Virus?

--
Regards, Ian

Re:This sounds like a great movie plot... by Kittoa · 2008-08-27 03:07 · Score: 1

Already been done, sortof.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus_(1999_film)
Re:This sounds like a great movie plot... by dogmatixpsych · 2008-08-27 04:28 · Score: 1

Or, something called Worms on a Space Station with the main character played by Samuel L. Jackson.

Windows ? by Daas · 2008-08-27 01:18 · Score: 1

Nice to know there is at least one "window" that kind easily break on the ISS ;)

Nice one to get by jayhawk88 · 2008-08-27 01:20 · Score: 5, Informative

From Symantec's site:

It then attempts to steal sensitive information for the following online games:

* ZhengTu
* Wanmi Shijie or Perfect World
* Dekaron Siwan Mojie
* HuangYi Online
* Rexue Jianghu
* ROHAN
* Seal Online
* Maple Story
* R2 (Reign of Revolution)
* Talesweaver

Oh noes, now how will the astronauts be able to play their Japanese MMO's?

Re:Nice one to get by Anonymous Coward · 2008-08-27 01:43 · Score: 3, Informative

Those are all Chinese/Korean MMOs. Learn2geography.
Re:Nice one to get by jayhawk88 · 2008-08-27 01:55 · Score: 1

Yup, my bad. The only one I recognized on sight was Maple Story which I though was from Japan but you're correct, Korean.
Re:Nice one to get by meist3r · 2008-08-27 02:18 · Score: 1

Get your WoW Space Gold now! Farmed in space, sold on eBay. One time opportunity. I really wonder if one of the astronauts actually tried to play one of these games to kill some spare time.
Re:Nice one to get by slimjim8094 · 2008-08-27 02:55 · Score: 1

Except nobody's said that yet. And I'm 7/8 of the way down the page...

--
I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
Re:Nice one to get by Anonymous Coward · 2008-08-27 03:11 · Score: 1, Informative

Pretty damn well. Those are mostly Chinese.

No internet?? by Apoorv+Khatreja · 2008-08-27 01:23 · Score: 4, Funny

Q. Where do these NASA guys get their pr0n from?

A. Oh yeah.. the USB drive.

--
RutSum.com

Not an accident by gmf · 2008-08-27 01:23 · Score: 1

Actually, they just took the virus to space to have it readily available when the aliens attack. Of course they didn't remember to also take a Mac to upload it to the alien base ship, so I guess we're doomed.

Say it with me... by scubamage · 2008-08-27 01:27 · Score: 1

WORMS (wormswormswormswormsworms) IN (inininininin) SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!! (spacespacespacespacespace)

They really need to come up with a way to visualize echoing sound in html5.

Re:Say it with me... by MPAB · 2008-08-27 01:42 · Score: 1

Cue in Lost in Space Theme...
Re:Say it with me... by sjaskow · 2008-08-27 02:04 · Score: 1

Um, I was actually thinking he meant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigs_in_Space "Pigs in Space" from "The Muppet Show"
Re:Say it with me... by MPAB · 2008-08-27 02:07 · Score: 1

Nothing to do with the sequel to "Snakes on a Plane": "Worms on a Ship"?

Re:So the question is.... by TTURabble · 2008-08-27 01:27 · Score: 1

Does the Gammima.AG worm run Crysis?

Computer Virus .. ? by rs232 · 2008-08-27 01:28 · Score: 1

Come on slashdot, don't be twee, what Operating System does this 'computer virus' need to run on .. Systems Affected: Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, Windows NT, Windows Server 2003, Windows XP ..

--
davecb5620@gmail.com

Re:Computer Virus .. ? by value_added · 2008-08-27 02:12 · Score: 2, Funny

Come on slashdot, don't be twee, what Operating System does this 'computer virus' need to run on .. Systems Affected: Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, Windows NT, Windows Server 2003, Windows XP ...
You're being difficult. Anyone can see this is a cross-platform virus.
Re: Computer Virus .. ? by rs232 · 2008-08-27 02:26 · Score: 1

"You're being difficult. Anyone can see this is a cross-platform virus"

How terribly mildly amusing ..

On the Sarah Jane Adventures the other day, they had to 'reboot the communications grid' because of a 'virus' .. it's entered the lexicon .. like people have come to think ' computer viruses are somehow normal ..

--
davecb5620@gmail.com

Re:digital genocide by Chineseyes · 2008-08-27 01:28 · Score: 4, Insightful

If they're not more careful, we might find someday intelligent artificial life out there... and kill it.

Yes, because intelligent artificial lifeforms will definitely be running windows Vista on an x86 architecture.

--
I think the invisible hand of the market has its middle finger extended

--A wise old fart named SC0RN

Digital life form found ! by PermanentMarker · 2008-08-27 01:29 · Score: 1

Can you just imagine how a pre-biological species based on silicon and power wires enters the space age....

And then some day their computers are infected with a populair biological-virus, made by some siliconcyberpunk, who likes to hack bio-systems.

Perhaps life on earth had digital start. If such viruses leaked out..

--
I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change.

Somebody...... by budword · 2008-08-27 01:31 · Score: 1

Somebody got busted surfing for some porn, so they came up with this USB key story. Have you seen the Crazy Bitches they have up there ? I'd bring some porn too.

Right... by Moraelin · 2008-08-27 01:35 · Score: 4, Informative

So, on some computers which (A) have been there for years, and (B) have no network connection over which to download virus signature updates, somehow miraculously that AV software would be up to date and able to recognize the newest trojans. I don't know what AV software that is, but I want it too ;)

Or, I know, let's send Mordac up there with each Shuttle or rocket trip, to install those updates.

Oh yeah, and you so want to be up there on your own, when the retarded AV software after a buggy update decides one or more of the following:

- some critical Windows file looks suspicious and deletes it. It happened more than once IRL.

- some piece of binary data transmitted by or to your computer looks suspiciously like an obscure, outdated SQL-Server exploit, and shuts the program down and cuts off the network connection. I can personally testify that it happened to me in WoW, never mind that it wasn't on the right port, I had no version of SQL-Server installed, and it was on a connection to WoW that was on for 2 hours now and thus unlikely to be what a virus does. Or see the infamous "STARTLOGGER"/"STOPLOGGER" idiocy that made it possible for a while to disconnect anyone from IRC (and God knows what else) if they have Norton AV installed. Yeah, you so want that on a space station's computers.

- introduces a bigger vulnerability of its own than Windows has. At least one RL mass-pwnage, and of the format-your-hdd sort at that, happened over a buffer overflow vulnerability in IIRC McAffee's firewall. Or if you look in the history of Norton's patch notes, a _lot_ of them were patching old buffer overflow vulnerabilities in their AV software.

- suddenly decides that an otherwise legitimate piece of software is too dangerous, and just deletes it. It happened to me with one AV which decided that IRC is too dangerous a place and just removed my mIRC executable. Not because of some malicious code, or even vulnerability, in that version of mIRC, but just because apparently they considered it dangerous anyway. You so want to be up on a space station when such a piece of crap decides that your, say, telnet is too dangerous and must be stopped.

- loads itself in memory twice and slows everything down to a crawl. Happened to me, with an older version of McAffee's AV. Oh, and trying to stop or uninstall it, only stopped one of the copies.

- goes paranoid about protecting the user's "privacy", and prevents legitimate logins. Again, McAffee did that for me. Half the sites were so confused by whatever it did, that they simultaneously thought I'm logged in _and_ not logged in. I was starting to develop a deep empathy for Schroedinger's cat. You surely want that kind of thing randomly happening when you're trying to log into some more important thing up there.

Heh ;)

--
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.

Re:Right... by assassinator42 · 2008-08-27 02:09 · Score: 1

Would the anti-virus that deleted mIRC happen to be made by Computer Associates, or did another product also do that (wouldn't surprise me at all)?
I'm presuming these laptops run Windows, I wonder why they don't run some form of Unix? Does the nutritional software used by NASA only work with Windows? Can the astronauts use their own software on these laptops?
Re:Right... by SMOKEING · 2008-08-27 02:29 · Score: 1

The list is comprehensive and commands respect by all means.
But.. To gain such an expertise the author, well, has to go on using all that AV crap for years.
Right, on occasion you can get thumbs up on /. for a successful post, but I wonder, given half of your working time is spent sorting out what blunder was done in the name of security by this or that AV, what are your productive hours?
Generally, I really find it ueberstupid to take windoes into space. Really.
Re:Right... by Jerf · 2008-08-27 02:50 · Score: 2, Insightful

He might be IT for some company mandating usage.
I'm in a nearly pure-Linux environment and I've indirectly encountered a fair portion of that list either in my family, or with releasing a Windows client for our software that just happens to trip anti-virus software for no reason we could ever figure out.
AV software is so crappy it will reach out to screw you hard.
Re:Right... by SMOKEING · 2008-08-27 03:10 · Score: 1

AV software is so crappy it will reach out to screw you hard.
Being Linux-only since 2003, I am pretty incompetent in AV; still, when (very occasionally) asked what to do to secure an internet-connected windows PC, I tended to suggest some sort of AV (if the word 'firewall' sounds just too technical). Not that I fail to see AV industry as a mongrel in and only in.. erm.. MS ecosystem, but at least the Uni where I work keeps AV on their managed PCs.
Your last comment, however, leaves in tatters this already infirm belief in AV soundness.
Re:Right... by Thelasko · 2008-08-27 04:03 · Score: 1

So, on some computers which (A) have been there for years, and (B) have no network connection over which to download virus signature updates, somehow miraculously that AV software would be up to date and able to recognize the newest trojans. I don't know what AV software that is, but I want it too ;)
NOD32 claims to have that capability. Although, it would be safer and easier to require every storage device traveling to the ISS to be scanned with an up to date antivirus before going into space.

--
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
Re:Right... by toolie · 2008-08-27 06:21 · Score: 1

So, on some computers which (A) have been there for years, and (B) have no network connection over which to download virus signature updates, somehow miraculously that AV software would be up to date and able to recognize the newest trojans. I don't know what AV software that is, but I want it too ;)
Not sure about the majority of AV software, but we apply the updates to our non-networked machines regularly by burning them to CDs and using that to update them.

--
-- toolie
Re:Right... by callistra.moonshadow · 2008-08-27 11:31 · Score: 1

What I HAVE to ask is WHY ANYONE would allow personal laptops to go up at all? Clean laptops and NO USB drives allowed is what SHOULD be the correct process. I guess this is just another example of the simple route to infection being over-looked. At NASA it seems like the IT Overseers are more worried about documents getting lost on USB drives (they require encrypted USB drives) versus the USB drives being the vector of infection.

--
--Cally
Re:Right... by callistra.moonshadow · 2008-09-03 13:27 · Score: 1

In the end this is a big black hole. You make the excuse that Humans are going into space. Well if this is what is an example we won't get too far with blunders such as this.

--
--Cally

Enough is enough! by Rocketman_Ryan · 2008-08-27 01:35 · Score: 1

I've had it with these mother*&!%$@# worms on this mother*&!%$@# space station! Everybody strap in. I'm about to open some *&!%$@# airlocks.

Re:Sure there is. by TheP4st · 2008-08-27 01:37 · Score: 3, Insightful

How about the minor detail that the Austronauts can bring USB sticks with them that have not been thoroughly checked for malware. While being an isolated environment it obviously isn't protected from security challenged austronauts.

--
"I have downloaded hundreds and hundreds of records, why would I care if somebody downloads ours?" Robin Pecknold

Space Virus by g0bshiTe · 2008-08-27 01:42 · Score: 1

I wonder what virus was actually the first to make it to space.

--
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!

Re:Space Virus by Zoxed · 2008-08-27 02:05 · Score: 2, Funny

> I wonder what virus was actually the first to make it to space.
Agent Smith would say Yuri Gagarin.

We all know why this happened by dkleinsc · 2008-08-27 01:48 · Score: 1

It was part of a top-secret program to make sure that our computer viruses operated properly on alien spacecraft, just in case most of our cities are blown up on July 4th.

--
I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/

If i know my star trek... by Trent+Hawkins · 2008-08-27 01:50 · Score: 4, Funny

The virus is actually an alien computer system attempting to interface with the station's computer systems.
Kirk: Spock __ Can __ you translate __ their message? Spock: Yes Captain. The message is, "Do you wish to enlarge your penis?" Kirk: Make it so...

Re:If i know my star trek... by roman_mir · 2008-08-27 03:51 · Score: 1

Spock: computer, initiate sequence www.sex.com

--
You can't handle the truth.
Re:If i know my star trek... by Hatta · 2008-08-27 05:44 · Score: 3, Interesting

If you knew your Star Trek, you'd know that "Make it so" was Picard's catch phrase, not Kirks.

--
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Re:If i know my star trek... by strelitsa · 2008-08-27 08:41 · Score: 1

Well, which one ended up being folded spindled and mutilated inside a wrecked footbridge by a fifth-rate villain then? I wonder if "it was fun" to be made into a human pinata by Guinan's fifth cousin twice removed?

--
No mod points, no meta-moderating/Firehose/all the other free work Slashdot wants me to do.
Re:If i know my star trek... by chord.wav · 2008-08-27 13:36 · Score: 1

FATALITY! Flawless Victory!
Re:If i know my star trek... by Jimbob+The+Mighty · 2008-08-27 14:27 · Score: 1

The virus is actually an alien computer system attempting to interface with the station's computer systems. Kirk: Spock __ Can __ you translate __ their message? Spock: Yes Captain. The message is, "Do you wish to enlarge your penis?" Kirk: Make it so...
But Captain, 14 inches is enough for any human male.
Re:If i know my star trek... by Trent+Hawkins · 2008-08-27 14:35 · Score: 1

well, that joke just went warp 9 over your head.
Re:If i know my star trek... by Tablizer · 2008-08-28 07:51 · Score: 1

If you knew your Star Trek, you'd know that "Make it so" was Picard's catch phrase, not Kirks.
But Kirk was infected with the Picard69 virus.

--
Table-ized A.I.
Re:If i know my star trek... by shadowbearer · 2008-08-28 12:11 · Score: 1

Translation for NG fans:
The virus is actually an alien computer system attempting to interface with the station's computer systems.
Picard: Data. Can __ you translate __ their message?
Data: Yes Captain. The message is, "Do you wish to have longer lasting relationships with your partners?"
Picard: Make it so... ;)
SB

--
It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.

worm in space by Errtu76 · 2008-08-27 01:50 · Score: 1, Funny

equals wormhole! Ha! Ha! Ha.. oh never mind.

the laptops have no net connection .. by rs232 · 2008-08-27 01:50 · Score: 4, Insightful

"The laptops have no net connection .."

So, how do they send/receive email ..

"The laptops infected with the virus were used to run nutritional programs and let the astronauts periodically send e-mail back to Earth"

So, they do have a net connection ..

"The laptops carried by astronauts reportedly do not have any anti-virus software on them to prevent infection"

So how did they detect the 'infection' by the Gammima.AG worm ..

"The ISS has no direct net connection"

How do the laptops send/recieve email .. speculation by a slashdot reader don't count ..

--

"We are having a hard time understanding the how and why, but everything is working", Commander Bill Sheperd Feb 2001

--
davecb5620@gmail.com

Re:the laptops have no net connection .. by LordEd · 2008-08-27 02:03 · Score: 3, Insightful

I think the summary is incorrect. From TFA:

The ISS has no direct net connection and all data traffic travelling from the ground to the spacecraft is scanned before being transmitted.

Having no network connection and no direct net connection are different things. I suspect it means that the ISS has some form of network connection to NASA's internal network, but does not have any access to the Internet.
Re: the laptops have no net connection .. by rs232 · 2008-08-27 02:17 · Score: 1

"The virus did make it onto more than one laptop -- suggesting that it spread via some sort of intranet on the space station or via a thumb drive"

"The International Space Station has no direct internet access, but astronauts can send and receive mail though a KU band data link also used for data and video transfer, according to Humphries"

'That means the space station laptops are not connected to the net, according to Humphries'

"Everything is scanned before it goes up, so it's an indirect connection," Humphries said.

What exactly is scanned, what form does the scanning take, how technically does scanning make it an indirect connection. If it's an indirect connection then why the need for scanning ..

"The Ku-band system is the primary return link for International Space Station (ISS) video and payload data transmitted in digital format to the ground ..

.. Like the S-band system, the Ku-band system does not inspect the data passing through it.

--

I'm terribly sorry chaps, but speculation from slashdot readers don't count .. :)

--
davecb5620@gmail.com
Re:the laptops have no net connection .. by tokul · 2008-08-27 04:04 · Score: 1

So how did they detect the 'infection' by the Gammima.AG worm ..

From trojan description
Next, the worm creates the following registry entry so that it executes whenever Windows starts: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run\"kava" = "%System%\kavo.exe"
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to notice that some autorun should not be there.
Re:the laptops have no net connection .. by knix · 2008-08-27 04:52 · Score: 1

The emails are sent to / received from the Space Station at certain points in the day. It only happens periodically because there has to be the correct satelite coverage for transfering larger amounts of data. Before you go claiming that email is relatively small, so why wait for larger pipes, think about all of the other data that is more important that needs to be transfered off. Telemetry, Voice, Video, etc.... I'm sure crew email is at the bottom of the list.

Dave? by Bazman · 2008-08-27 01:54 · Score: 1

I'm going to re-watch 2001 and see if Dave has a USB stick in any of the shots. Maybe I'll just photoedit one in....

Re:Dave? by Tablizer · 2008-08-27 03:29 · Score: 2, Funny

"Dave, send 40 grand to the prince in Nigeria if you want me to open the pod doors, Dave."

--
Table-ized A.I.

antivirus is necessary? by pryoplasm · 2008-08-27 01:56 · Score: 1

http://xkcd.com/463/ has a comic that is about voting machines, but might be slightly similar to this situation...

--
Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who live by the gun...

The real question should be by Anonymous Coward · 2008-08-27 01:56 · Score: 1, Informative

why are they running Windows on the shuttle? There really is NO reason to do so. Hopefully, it is not used in anyplace that can allow another country to control the ISS (or our space crafts).

Re:WINDOWS ONLY! by Anonymous Coward · 2008-08-27 01:57 · Score: 1, Insightful

Yes, I'm sure that all of the mission-critical systems are running on laptops - especially the life-support and navigation systems.

On a funny note, though, I was watching a Discovery Channel special about Air Force One, and I noticed that one of the computer screens on the Comm room had a Windows error message on it. Also, when I badge in at work, I almost always hear the Windows error chime going off incessantly, and see the poor mystified guard clicking the mouse in futility. And the last time I was at Wal-Mart, one of the self check-out registers had to reboot and I saw a Windows XP login screen pop up. Nice!

I should hope not by jimmypw · 2008-08-27 01:59 · Score: 1

The laptops have no net connection

I should hope not!!! Sending a multi billion $ project in to space with no AV and windows could lead to another disaster. Heck using windows alone is too much imagine the control station blue screening on you during re-entry with an "invalid floating point" error :p

Re:NASA geeks FTW! by Zoxed · 2008-08-27 02:02 · Score: 1

> What was all that shit about NASA astronauts being our best and brightest again?

It would not be hard to be a best and brightest physicist and still not know much about Windows security (especially, as we all here know, Real Work (tm) does not get done on Windows but on Solaris, Linux, or even VMS :-).

Re:this isn't the first time? by AndrewNeo · 2008-08-27 02:03 · Score: 1

NASA have said this isn't the first time computer viruses had travelled into space.

Home computer space by dbIII · 2008-08-27 02:05 · Score: 1

Sure Exchange is a great mail system

MS Exchange can do a wide variety of things but it is certainly not a "great mail system". It scores poorly against any other widely accepted email server software and it wasn't even possible to back up the mail store of a running system reliably until about two version backs. Those Exchange Admins that were too lazy to ever attempt a bare metal recovery from backups will of course insist that it was reliable but the documentation from MS trumps fanboy worship anyday. Check out Excahnge sysadmin mailing lists/forums for it's more recent quirks that can result in lost or misdirected messages - you don't use it if all you want is email.

Viruses in Space? by Jason+Levine · 2008-08-27 02:09 · Score: 1

This can only mean one thing. Radiation from space will mutate them until they are 50 feet tall and they rampage through our cities! Either that, or they will gain superpowers and become evil super-virus-villains bent on world conquest.

--
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.

Re:The reverse would be much worse by PinkyDead · 2008-08-27 02:16 · Score: 1

Alien virus console output:

Infecting system. . . Scanning for O/S Ident. . . . Identified 'Microsoft Windows Vista 2008' Scanning for exploit(s). . . . . . . . 14336678896 exploit(s) found Connecting to Wireless Network. . . Connecting to megadodo-publications.com Sent report 'Mostly Harmless'. Virus deleted.

--
Genesis 1:32 And God typed :wq!

You missed the point by Moraelin · 2008-08-27 02:36 · Score: 1

Interesting that half your reply revolves around about 3 applications; WoW, mIRC, and McAffee.

Interesting that the point went a mile over your head. Sorry.

The point is that the same could happen with any other application. E.g., you could put the string "STARTLOGGER" in a web page and the retarded AV would then block the browser from accessing the network. You could have a hardware random number generator attached to a PC, and the AV would disconnect you if the sequence of bytes received resembled anything on its flawed signatures.

Also, the issue of deleting Windows DLL's didn't happen in conjunction with either WoW or mIRC, it just nuked Windows. A retarded signature file update made a couple of Windows DLL's look like they have viruses. And that's a big failure. Lesser visible ones included hundreds of cases of some innocent installer, or some third party program, or once even one of my own programs written in C was mistaken for a virus and promptly destroyed.

There is absolutely nothing that's WoW or mIRC only about that mode of failure.

Or in other words, today's free clue is: sometimes an example is just an example, not the whole set. If I say "for example, that dog has rabies", it doesn't mean that _only_ that dog has rabies and no other dog could possibly ever have that.

First off I'm pretty positive WoW is not going to be installed anytime soon on the ISS nor on anything relating to the Space Shuttle's computer systems.

Again, the point is that the same could happen with any other application.

Secondly I highly doubt that the ISS team is going to be downloading pr0n, mp3s, etc or creating the newest BASH funnies while on the station (eg: they're not going to use IRC while on the station).

But apparently they did bring a trojan on an USB stick. And it wasn't the first time.

Regardless, the issues I've described could happen over any data stream, no matter which.

hirdly, I very much doubt that NASA would use Norton, McAffee or any iteration of a consumer based AV software. Hell, they have enough decent programmers to code their own software to rely on something that for the most part probably would not work.

Right, because they so have the manpower to do a clean room reverse-engineering of all viruses, within hours of their release. Not.

Writing AV software doesn't mean just writing the engine. It also means coming up with all those virus signatures. That's the hard part.

--
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.

AV Software by codepunk · 2008-08-27 02:36 · Score: 1

AV Software Definition: A alarm system that alerts you when you are already screwed.

The real question is what else do these laptops have on them, root kits, bots, trojans, keyloggers?

--

Got Code?

Re:AV Software by MacGyver2210 · 2008-08-27 02:53 · Score: 1

Dude, I totally put a trojan on the station. I'm engrossed by the ongoing battle between worms(no pun intended) and one of the astronauts' Golden Retriever who he keeps writing to his wife about. Also, he needs to get a better mortgage rate before he gets taken for everything, and his newest shipment of Cialis has been delivered.
.
Bow-chicka-wow-wow.

--
If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits

Re:Heavy Software by dragonbutt · 2008-08-27 02:50 · Score: 1

Everyone knows the biggest hurdle to get anything into space is the mass of the object. The additional fuel required to get all those extra 1's and 0's into space just can't justify the benefits of the anti-virus software.

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it was like that when I got here.. I wasen't here when that happened... second shift musta done that....

Obligatory XKCD Reference... by Temujin_12 · 2008-08-27 02:51 · Score: 3, Funny

http://www.xkcd.com/463/

--
Faith is a willingness to accept something w/o complete proof and to act on it. Reason allows you to correct that faith.

Autoexec by Nicolas+MONNET · 2008-08-27 02:52 · Score: 1

How about the minor detail that their Windows has autoexec on? Or that it doesn't have noexec as a mount option? Linux does.

Re:NASA geeks FTW! by elrous0 · 2008-08-27 02:56 · Score: 1

Anyone should know better than to stick a dirty thumb into a clean hole.

--
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.

Earth Invades Space! Nasa hiring AstroHackerNauts! by itsybitsy · 2008-08-27 03:01 · Score: 1

Oh great, we'll be considered genocidal invaders by any cybernetic life forms we meet in space as we infect them with crummy Earth based computer viruses that they have no resistance to! We'd better take Norton, Avg, Sophos, et. al. with us on all future space missions. Nasa now begins searching for computer geeks who'll be able to adapt to outer space. That shouldn't be a problem since we're already sedentary and blobish in many cases. I'd go in for legs to be replaced by a second set of arms if assigned to a permanent space based colony or ship. That way one can type of two keyboards at once. Or use the second set of hands for more, ah hem, pleasant activities while working. Imagine the new yoga positions that are possible with four hands... Knew that complete porn collection from hacking the Intertubes routers would come in doubly handy one day! Now, where is that Nasa application...

The future of the geek is solidified in human culture as long as we remain a science and technology based culture. Now if only we could get those whack nut job religious types to stop their silly myths which permit people to kill each other, we might have a chance to live out our geek inspired futures in objective reality. Forward to the future!

Overheard on ISS by mikebelrose · 2008-08-27 03:05 · Score: 2, Funny

That's one small step for a virus, one giant leap for viruskind.

Andromeda Strain by slyborg · 2008-08-27 03:06 · Score: 1

That cosmic ray flux could be a bad thing up there...

"...there'll be a thousand mutations, Andromeda will spread everywhere, we'll never be rid of it!"

Surely an organization like NASA by Big+Hairy+Ian · 2008-08-27 03:07 · Score: 1

Should be ISO27000 certified in which case how was someone even allowed to plug an unauthorized mass storage device into the laptop in the 1st place? Also why wasn't AV software installed on it?

--

Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

Just vent to space by nurb432 · 2008-08-27 03:16 · Score: 1

That always kills the.. umm wait, different virus... nevermind.

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----

Windows? by nurb432 · 2008-08-27 03:22 · Score: 1

I really hope they aren't using a consumer grade OS for ship control systems.

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----

In Space No One Can Hear You by aquatone282 · 2008-08-27 03:29 · Score: 1

. . . formatting your c: drive. . .

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What?

Sci Fi getting more real by Tablizer · 2008-08-27 03:33 · Score: 1

Murder plots over love triangles (astro-diaper girl), infected computers going mad, sci fi is getting real. Who says Mars missions will be boring? It may not be good for national pride, but it will make space much more interesting to the average joe or joelynn.

--
Table-ized A.I.

computer viruses from outer space by AlbertKnox · 2008-08-27 03:42 · Score: 1

how long can computer viruses survive in space?
maybe this answers the question where they come from.

So does that make it the Andromeda Strain ? by Sir+Spank-o-tron · 2008-08-27 03:50 · Score: 1

Har har..

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-- Spankmeister General

Oh great... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-08-27 03:57 · Score: 1, Funny

...the ship's got space herpes.

Is this a virus or a worm? by cciRRus · 2008-08-27 03:58 · Score: 1

From Symantec's description, the W32.Gammima.AG "worm" does not seem to be a worm but more like a virus. A quick check reveals that a worm is,

A computer worm is a self-replicating computer program. It uses a network to send copies of itself to other nodes (computer terminals on the network) and it may do so without any user intervention.

Then from Symantec's description,

The worm then copies itself to all drives from C through Z as the following file: [DRIVE LETTER]:\ntdelect.com

It also creates the following file so that it executes whenever the drive is accessed: [DRIVE LETTER]:\autorun.inf

It doesn't appear to be replicating through the network. Or have I misunderstood it?

--
w00t

Re:Is this a virus or a worm? by v1 · 2008-08-27 05:16 · Score: 1

I'd love to know the history of who the brain was that decided an automatic, no prompt program launch on untrusted media insert was a good idea.

--
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.

Activate Self-Destruct in: 5. 4. 3. 2. 1. by DarthVain · 2008-08-27 04:07 · Score: 1

Initiating Autonomous Global Diagnostic Scan... ...Scan Complete Anomaly Found.

Matching with known database... Done. 1 Match Found.

Anomaly classified: Gammima.AG worm

Cleansing Procedure Initiated...

Self-Destruct in:

5

4

3

2

1

boom.

I mean seriously it was found on laptops used to monitor nutrition? On Noes!!!111!

"OMG the nutrition laptop is down!? How many carbs am I allowed today! HOW MANY!"

No pun...? by QJimbo · 2008-08-27 04:33 · Score: 1

Come on, he's called Mark Shuttleworth and you didn't make a joke? :(

Re:No pun...? by Anonymous Coward · 2008-08-27 06:48 · Score: 1, Informative

Yes he did. It just didn't take advantage of the name.

Re: copying PST files .. by rs232 · 2008-08-27 04:42 · Score: 1

"the ground controls uploads and downloads of files .. Email is move by copying Outlook PST files"

This is interesting, do you have any citations or an actual URL to a NASA site that describes the technical details?

Like hows does clicking 'SEND' translate into downloading a PST file, are the files syncronized, when a new PST file is uploaded does it overwrite the old one, is there a different file for each laptop/user, how is syncronization maintained?

--
davecb5620@gmail.com

Re:Does not compute by Aetuneo · 2008-08-27 04:55 · Score: 1

Well, according to the summary (not that anyone reads that), they think it was brought aboard by one of the astronauts, who was carrying a flash drive, which was infected with a virus, which, when plugged into one of the computers, infected that computer. It probably than spread via the ISS's internal network, or via other flash drives which were plugged into the computer.

--
Everything is subjective.

bragging rights by v1 · 2008-08-27 05:13 · Score: 3, Funny

will definitely go to the first bot herder that manages to get a node on the ISS.

--
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.

Re:So the question is.... by BPPG · 2008-08-27 05:18 · Score: 1

Does the Gammima.AG worm run Crysis?

Self-installing games? I wish!

--
What's the value of information that you don't know?

...but aren't they afraid... by roc97007 · 2008-08-27 05:27 · Score: 1

...that cosmic rays will cause the virus to mutate into... into...

Never mind. It was a lot funnier in my head.

--
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.

correction.. by destiney · 2008-08-27 06:25 · Score: 1

It's not a "computer virus", it's a "Microsoft virus".

You're strawmanning by boombaard · 2008-08-27 06:40 · Score: 2, Informative

"ISS" doesn't use windows at all.. Most if not all of the actual hardware seem to be running on different versions of linux (mind you, quite a bit of the hardware is from around the Y2K or before, so you'll see p233s with 64mb ram running things).

The only things infected were a couple of laptops running "nutritional programs", (whatever the hell those are).. Even then, all ISSEarth communication goes through fairly tough screening, and is not directly linked to the 'net, so it's not as if planting trojans on astronaut's laptops is very useful, or challenging (seeing how the laptops weren't running AV Software, and are far from mission critical equipment).

anyway, see this possibly partial, old entry on what some parts of ISS are run on.

Charity? by bill_mcgonigle · 2008-08-27 08:34 · Score: 1

No company is going to make space probes just for science. NASA is needed for that kind of exploration.

Could you address why companies couldn't build space probes for private charities?

--
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)

Re:Charity? by MrNaz · 2008-08-27 16:57 · Score: 1

Because last time I checked, none of the private charities in my area had homeless shelters in orbit.

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I hate printers.
Re:Charity? by MrNaz · 2008-08-27 16:58 · Score: 1

Oh, and before you mention it, the ISS doesn't count.

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I hate printers.

Is this how The Company started? by Synonymous+Bosch · 2008-08-27 09:26 · Score: 1

When it came onboard, it was in fact a nearly harmless variety of the common cold. However,exposure to cosmic rays and near zero gravity conditions have forced it to mutate and gain special powers!

I demand they blow the infected laptops out of the airlock rather than bring them back to earth for study, and perhaps use as biotechnological weapons...

Re:digital genocide by tverbeek · 2008-08-27 10:38 · Score: 1

"Flamebait"? This "humor" must be a difficult concept for some of y'all.

--
http://alternatives.rzero.com/

Re:This is not a nerd joke guys by Samah · 2008-08-27 14:07 · Score: 1

If scientist can't code plain Fortran/Java or C code, he is not a scientist.

You're saying all scientists should be well-versed in various programming languages? Which kind of scientist are we talking about here? Rocket scientists? Should they not be worrying about, you know, ROCKETS?

--
Homonyms are fun!
You're driving your car, but they're riding their bikes there.

Re:Timothy apparently. by willyhill · 2008-08-27 20:18 · Score: 2, Insightful

Most Slashdot editors have happily replaced words in my stories.

The "M$ Windoze" prose usually needs to be scrubbed out. Otherwise people would think Slashdot is run by teenagers on Prozac.

--
The twitter monologues. Click on my homepage and be amazed.

PC that loaded files on USB drive was on Earth... by Vandil+X · 2008-08-28 03:49 · Score: 1

That USB drive had to have been connected to a PC on Earth to get files moved onto it. So the Earthly PC must also have out of date on A/V signatures.

User laziness on file management/Anti-virus in a Windows environment is the issue here.

--
Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, START

Re:Timothy apparently. by renegadesx · 2008-08-28 11:59 · Score: 1

Wow, Twitter learnt how to spell Windows!
Must rush outside to look for some flying pigs

--
Make SELinux enforcing again!

Re:This is not a nerd joke guys by Ilgaz · 2008-08-28 22:01 · Score: 1

The scientists who didn't prison themselves to MS Windows only variants of those C/Fortran so they don't require a Windows running at space.

If they use MS only stuff, it would create such comical situation of course.

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