Barack Obama Wins US Presidency

Last night, around 11pm, all the major networks announced that Senator Barack Obama had won the election. Soon after, Senator McCain conceded. There were no crazy partisan court hearings, just a simple election. This is your chance to talk about it and what it means for the future of our nation.

Comments

I'll Tell You What It Means

[eldavojohn]

It means the Democrats finally have a chance to screw everything up. By my count there are 56 D to 40 R in the Senate and 251 D to 173 R in the House. While there's still a few undecided yet, that's Democratic control of the Legislative and Executive Branches. Normally I like to see these things divided between the two parties so nobody gets too far away from lagom.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[Anonymous Coward]

Everything is already screwed up about as bad as it can get. There is some serious "left" listing that needs to happen to put us back on course.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[falcon5768]

First off, we haven't had a divided government since 06. And JUST because the Dems control the government doesn't mean its in any way a clean slate. Obama is not a normal Dem, he is a moderate in many ways (even though the Repugs tried to claim he was this super liberal which is more what his running mate is) And they are on notice. The Dems didnt get the magic 60, they WANT that filibuster proof margin and before they get it they have to cater to at least the fiscally conservative republicans to get them on their side. We dont have a Carter administration here, we have a whole different setup.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[Cerberus7]

I wish I could mod that up, because that's exactly why I voted the way I did this election. I voted D straight down the list for the first time ever. No mix and match, no attempt at balance. Straight Democrat. I feel a little dirty, but it needed to be done, and for the first time since I've been able to vote, I actually have hope that maybe this time it will be different. I was well on my way to becoming disillusioned and apathetic, but this time I care, and I'm hopeful.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[theM_xl]

The Dems may actually get 60. They're at 56 now and there's still 4 seats in the "too close to tell right now" territory.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[falcon5768]

Not insane or clueless, just dont read neo-con trash mags like Drudge, Fox News, and the National Journal. You hardly prove your point by posting links to known ultra-conservative sites. You could have posted a link to Stormfront for all that matters to try to prove your point.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[aliquis]

Lagom? lol, first time ever I've seen the word spread outside of Sweden :D

It's finally happening! After hundreds of years borrowing english, latin, german and french words our time has come! If only we built some new castles to! (On that topic, how nice to know we are shutting down all our military really fast nowadays while the russians are mobilising (though probably not to invade us :D))

Somewhat off-topic I know, but I can handle the negative moderation for spreading this awesome news about how we'll take over the world thru lagom!

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[Sique]

Of course, it won't be portrayed that way. The press will never jump on Obama's every misspoken word, or call out every contradiction in his policy. No, I expect that the press will go right on supporting this guy through thick and thin because they're married to him now.

And that is different to the Bush presidency between 2001 and 2006 exactly how?

I was hoping for a Bush win in 2004 for a simple reason: I wanted him to be president when the whole shit was stinking even up the noses of the big media. I wanted him to be president when it became clear to even the last and hardboiled conservative that President Bush was a failure. I wanted an actual reporting in the daily news how bad a president was in power.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[CrimsonAvenger]

they have to cater to at least the fiscally conservative republicans

Whyever do you think that the Democrats are in favour of fiscal conservatism? Remember all those big deficits in the Reagan years? Those budgets were passed by a Democratic controlled Congress who declared each of Reagan's proposed budgets "dead on arrival" before they proceeded to spend like drunken sailors.

Most likely, since the Republicans have never been the monolithic bloc described by the Democrats (both Parties are pretty much the same as far as it goes - 80-90% vote with the Party, 10-20% vote against the Party when their own next reelection might be jeopardized by joining the Party), the Republican swing votes (average 3-5 per vote, a different 3-5 depending on subject, of course) will be enough to make the Senate filibuster-proof.

Given, of course, that the Democrats can keep their own people in line.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[cayenne8]

"It's the way of things. And let's be honest here: things really just don't change all that much, and there's nothing this President and Congress can do that can't be undone by the next ones."

I dunno...

I've yet to see a government program truly get canceled. Once instantiated, they are like zombies, and you just can't seem to kill them off...they just keep coming back for more money.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[squiggleslash]

I think falcon got it right to be honest.

Both of the non-partisan links you point to show a senator who generally either votes with his party or doesn't bother to vote. The National Journal's claim that Obama is the "most liberal senator" follows a great tradition of claiming that every Democratic nominee is the most liberal, and was widely ridiculed when it came out, even in the MSM which was largely in the tank for McCain last year.

Obama doesn't have much of a voting record. His expressed viewpoints seem fairly moderate to me, certainly in line with most of the country. And your ridiculous claims about "having seeked out marxists and leftists" make you look like a kook.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[Pedrito]

As long as the senate can still filibuster, nothing too crazy will get through. If a party ever got 60 senators though, God help us!

Normally, I might agree with you, but a lot of those Republicans are coming up for election in 2010, and most of them are actually smart enough to read the writing on the wall. Filibustering every issue will not bode well for their chances for re-election, and they know it. I think Obama is going to be able to get a lot more done than some people think.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[EastCoastSurfer]

The problem is that we don't really know what Obama thinks. He's avoided most of the tough issues and done his best to not take any firm stances on anything. Frontline had a show on the other night about Obama and McCain. They had Obama's own strategist who said that not taking a stance on anything was their actual strategy. That way he would never have to defend it later. It allowed him to enter into a campaign with near zero baggage. They bet right that experience and really knowing where someone stood on an issue wouldn't matter as long as you talked about change and vague promises of giving stuff to people.

The best I can hope for is that Obama does what he did while running the law review - get the best people to do the job and not just those who agree with his ideology.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[Cerberus7]

Thank you for your thoughtful, and non-insulting reply. I agree that the blame mostly lies with Bush, but McCain's campaign clearly illustrated to me that the neocons who brought us Bush were still in charge of the Republican party. Until those idiots are no longer running that party, I will not vote for them. That sucks for the good Republicans, but they've got a lot of cleaning up to do. I wish them well.

I have hope that McCain will leave that crowd behind and do some good for what remains of his political career. His concession speech was nothing short of beautiful. His audience's reaction was atrocious, but I don't fault McCain for that.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[bzipitidoo]

That's what I did too. I'm very disappointed in McCain.

They've been saying this election really matters, that this time there is a huge difference between the 2 choices. I grant the difference. What I don't grant is that there were 2 good choices.

"If you're not a democrat when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not a republican when you're old, you have no brain." -- Churchill. That's not true anymore. The Republicans gave up on the brains. W. is a dummy. The Republicans should have gone back to core philosophical differences, and McCain could have but he did not and that's why I'm so disappointed in him. They were the party of fiscal prudence, of standing on your own feet and not being a welfare deadbeat, of standing up to enemies and not wimping out, of eliminating bureaucratic red tape and heavy handed, clumsy government interference and intervention. Whether these are the best approaches has always been debatable, and that's what the Republicans and McCain should have stood for.

Instead, the Republicans continued standing for things that are not debatable because we know those things are wrong. Intelligent Design? Come on! The fundamentals of our economy are sound and we need more deregulation and more tax cuts for the wealthy, even as the market was collapsing thanks to all the lying in the absence of policing having finally strained things to the point that it couldn't be sustained anymore? Any city could save a pile of money up front if they dismissed their entire police force, and let citizens police themselves. But cities know better than that. A pity the Republicans couldn't grasp that this applies to markets too. Next, it doesn't matter what caused Global Warming?? Answering the question of whether the vice-presidency is part of the executive branch is pointless??? Stupid, stupid, stupid! Now, Republicans, as you sojourn in the wilderness, and may it last 40 years if need be, see if you can learn something. Don't bother trying to come back until you find some brains.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[theaveng]

Like the Spanish-American War Tax that was applied to telephones in the 1890s. That tax continued sucking money for one hundred years until it was finally stopped.

When Congress passes laws, they should include a 25-year-sunset (the span of one generation), so the laws don't live forever. Same should apply to State laws.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[HiVizDiver]

It's a little disheartening how angry the ultra right-wing is about all this. They couldn't be more pissed about what happened last night, and a lot of them showed their true colors last night when they booed at Senator McCain's gracious speech, where he (along with Obama in his) tried to heal the divide in this country. That is the ONLY way we will successfully move forward.

The fact that 8 years of a Republican powerhouse has led us to where we are is apparent to everyone but the hardcore right, and so they take their aggression out on the people who have been clamoring for change. The "wild and unrestrained rhetoric from the left", I can assure you, was the only way to balance the wild and unrestrained spending and bombing from the right. The Republican party, as it stands today, can no longer use the mantra of "fiscal conservatives". Modern Republicans don't even seem to understand their own party's basic foundations anymore.

While I hope that Republicans, Democrats, and Independents alike can come together to try and solve the problems of our great nation, I fear that as the last few cards in the old house fall, the few of the old guard left are going to be more interested in pointing fingers and trying to shift blame, so sure they were right all along.

Is Barack Obama the messiah? No, that's ridiculous. Is he going to solve every problem? No, and I said that months ago, before I even decided to vote for him. I don't see how anyone, even with a Congressional and Senatorial majority (and we've seen how those presidencies go) can fix all these issues. Some of them, including the 1 TRILLION dollar debt, are going to take generations to fix. So sadly, I do believe that there is little hope that in terms of effectiveness, Barack Obama will be seen as anything more than mediocre, at best. In this day and age of people needing instant gratification, when the economic crisis isn't solve in a month or a year or one term, he'll be tarred and feathered, the right will crow triumphantly and say "See! We told you so!", the left will go back to worrying, wringing their hands, and running around like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off, and once again, ordinary tax-paying citizens (I'm not talking about you, Joe the Plumber, you just keep taking your family handouts and not paying your taxes) will get stuck with the check.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[TheSpoom]

Barack Obama's stance on just about everything. I hear this argument a lot that he's just saying "change" without any concrete ideas for how to do so, but it's simply incorrect. The campaign's series of YouTube videos starting with "Blueprint for Change" also details what he'll actually do as president: You can watch the Obama campaign's videos here.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[illumin8]

The problem is that we don't really know what Obama thinks. He's avoided most of the tough issues and done his best to not take any firm stances on anything.

I don't think that's accurate at all. Obama has had clear and easy to read information on his website for months now stating his policy on the Iraq war, the Economy, Healthcare, and other major issues. He came right out and had the most no-nonsense tax policy ever, and he clearly beat McCain on taxes.

At least with Obama, he was up front and said "if you make more than $250,000 you might see a tax increase." McCain doesn't even tell you that the $5,000 tax credit you get back for medical insurance probably won't cover the average family of 4's insurance premiums, costing the middle class more. McCain hid a middle class tax hike by not being truthful with the American people. Obama was up front that we'd all have to make sacrifices, and you know what? It paid off. Obama got a higher percentage of the voters that even make $200,000 or more! It goes to show that even affluent, educated Americans in the higher tax brackets don't mind making a few sacrifices instead of borrowing against our children's future.

As soon as the Republicans move away from the slash-and-burn, anything for a quick buck, overspend and hope our kids will bail us out economic policies of the neocons, then they can finally start rebuilding their party.

Where are all the so-called "conservative" Republicans, and what did the religious wackos and crazy spending neocons do with them?

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is some home work for you.. Look up the term Con artist[...]I'm not saying that Obama is a con artist,but[...]

And that sort of disingenuous statement is why a lot of the outside world sees many republicans as being liars, and not even any good at lying. You would have done better to stick to the issues (e.g. clean coal).

Drunk wisdom

[carbon 68k]

A fellow bar patron put it best:

"BLUE TEAM WINS"

Re:Drunk wisdom

[cgenman]

"Red Warrior needs food... Badly"

Re:Drunk wisdom

[NoisySplatter]

Green Elf shot the food!

First thing I thought about...

[Noryungi]

Rev. Martin Luther King's "I have a dream".

Re:First thing I thought about...

[Beyond_GoodandEvil]

Rev. Martin Luther King's "I have a dream".
Me too, especially when everybody started talking about the color of the president elect's skin. As such I am hereby starting a new internet meme, "DKDI" pronounced decay-dee-eye which stands for Dr. King's dream indeed. Use this phrase anytime someone mentions the color of Obama's skin, if the person you say this to is intelligent, they might stop to think about how far we still have to go, if they're stupid they'll merely assume you agree with their particular wonder at the most recent election.

Re:First thing I thought about...

[TheSpoom]

Or maybe you shouldn't be using a dead person's hypothetical opinions to promote your own agenda.

Re:First thing I thought about...

[Anne_Nonymous]

Skim MLK?

Re:First thing I thought about...

[VJ42]

I voted for Obama, but he's not even close to MLK.

I think that the GP meant that MLK's famous dream has been fulfilled, not that Obama is somehow as great as Dr King.

My own opinion chimes with that of one of our most famous leaders: "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else." - Winston Chirchill. After the world suffering eight years of GWB, the quote somehow seemed appropriate.

Re:First thing I thought about...

[joyfeather]

In the 1970's there were still parts of the beach in Daytona where blacks were not allowed to go. In the 1980's, the police routinely were called when a group of blacks went to the beach "because they might be planning a riot or something." In the 1990's, there were still restaurants where, if I took a black friend, we could not enjoy our meal because we would be stared at the entire time. There are parts of Florida (and I am sure elsewhere) where the KKK still has power. And last night, Florida, as well as the rest of the United States, elected an African American as President. We may have a long way to go, but we are getting there.

Re:First thing I thought about...

[Noryungi]

Oh, my goodness! Finally someone who took the time to try and understand what I was trying to say.

Thank you.

And, I might add (as a Frenchman) that that Churchill quote you wrote about was also a close second... :-)

Re:First thing I thought about...

[ketilwaa]

As far as I can tell, there's a history of white people voting close to 100% white in presidential elections. (Take it as a lame joke, or acknowledge the point)

African-american people voting for an african-american candidate is not necessarily a problem. My view: It is a natural thing, stemming from years and years of oppression. If this is still the case in 200 years, we (or should I say they, as I'll bed dead then) might have a problem.

Re:First thing I thought about...

[Theolojin]

Rev. Martin Luther King's "I have a dream".

(I didn't vote for Senator Obama.) I told my three children this morning (11, 7, & 5) about this historic occasion. When I pointed out that when Senator Obama was a young boy, black folk had to use different drinking fountains than white folk and had to use different bathrooms and go to different schools, they were stunned (especially the 11-year-old) that segregation was so recent. In a couple months we will have an African-American as president of the United States. How far we've come.

God bless America.

Re:First thing I thought about...

[chrb]

when Senator Obama was a young boy, black folk had to use different drinking fountains than white folk and had to use different bathrooms and go to different schools

When Senator Obama was a young boy, the mixed-race marriage of his parents was illegal in many states.

Re:First thing I thought about...

[the phantom]

The thing is, I don't think that MLK's dream has been fulfilled. Yes, a black man has been elected as our next president, and that is an incredible thing, and goes some distance towards showing how much things have changed since the 60s. On the other hand, minorities are still disproportionately poor; the criminal system still disproportionately punishes people of color; minorities still do not have a proportionate number of people in power in state and local governments or in the the upper echelons of private industry; and, oddly enough, there are a good number of people who voted for a "nigger" only because they were so tired of Bush that any alternative, even if it is someone they hate, would be better than McCain. Additionally, MLK talked of a time when people would not be judged on the basis of skin color. Throughout the entire race, Obama's skin color has been an issue. Both campaigns tried to downplay it, but it was still an issue. Listen to the comments made by audience members at several of the McCain and Palin rallies, for instance, and the lack of admonishment from either of those politicians. We still have a long way to go. Don't get me wrong, the election of Obama is a fantastic step in terms of civil rights, but don't think for a second that it is the fulfillment of MLK's dream.

Re:Two words

[GigaHurtsMyRobot]

Let's hope

Fallout from the election

[PIPBoy3000]

I think Washington D.C. will become a radioactive wasteland and the survivors will spend their waking hours hunting mutant ants in collapsed subways.

Oh, wait. My copy of Fallout 3 arrived yesterday and that's all I can think about.

Deck chairs on the Titanic

[bugeaterr]

Thoroughly, and decisively, re-arranged.

Re:Deck chairs on the Titanic

[nizo]

At least the Captain who kept steering us into icebergs will be replaced soon, though possibly not soon enough.

Re:Two words

[Anonymous Coward]

As a european citizen, thank USA!

Re:Two words

[Anonymous Coward]

Why? Did he vote?

Re:Two words

[neoform]

The whole world agrees with those sentiments.

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[account_deleted]

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C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!

[Kenoli]

http://i33.tinypic.com/zx6yi8.jpg

Re:C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!

[hansamurai]

For some reason that picture makes me hungry for some KFC.

What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, there was an election?

The UK perspective

[Anonymous Coward]

Just watched Obama's victory speech on the BBC, he namechecked Lincoln and derided Wall Street. If this is anything other than empty rhetoric he's not going to last a year. To paraphrase Ian Hislop on last weeks HIGNFY (popular UK satire quiz), "They're expecting a landslide and if that doesn't get him, the CIA will have to find some other way".

Reputation

[radius1214]

I firmly believe that Barack Obama is going to bring the change we need to alter the way the world see us. We need to earn back a little of our reputation that the eight previous years have lost us. We need to talk, discuss, and use diplomacy instead of force. I'm very glad that Obama won. I sincerely hope that he can keep all his promises he made to the American people, and with control of the house and senate, it looks likely that he won't have any trouble passing bills.

Re:Reputation

[Jedi Alec]

Why do you care how we look to the rest of the world? Let's worry about the problems in our country. I really don't give two shits about how some snoppy European views our country.

Great! Recall the troops from Afghanistan guys! The Yanks can handle it by themselves.

Re:Reputation

[tftp]

Why do you care how we look to the rest of the world? Let's worry about the problems in our country.

Those two issues are related.

Re:Reputation

[Evanisincontrol]

Why do you care how we look to the rest of the world? Let's worry about the problems in our country. I really don't give two shits about how some snoppy European views our country.

Yeah, I mean, it's not like foreign policy really has any effect at all on the way our country is run or anything.

Re:Reputation

[squizzar]

Because if the rest of the world likes you, they might stop thinking up ways to blow you up. When you say please don't build any Nuclear missiles they might actually listen. Hell there's a chance that people won't take the whole 'giving people democracy thing' as such a bad joke if you actually came across as well meaning and decent. It's not just the Europeans you need to consider, but if you did, then next time you decide to start a war you might get help from someone other than the Brits.

And if you're going to throw out insults (the OP never mentioned by whom or where that reputation might be held btw.) they could at least be real insults. That said kudos for coming up with a word that isn't in the urban dictionary.

Strange no one has mentioned this but..

[s0litaire]

This Scot, for one, welcomes our Democraticly elected African-American overlord :D

The party of big government

[bugeaterr]

The party of big government soundly defeated the other party of big government.

Too bad for those of us who think the government is getting dangerously big.
15 million people are employed by, and have a vested interest in an the size and power of, the federal government, let alone state and local.

Re:The party of big government

[Iridium_Hack]

I couldn't agree with you more. I ended out voting libertarian, though knew they couldn't win. The two main parties are sort of like chocolate and strawberry milk - two flavors of the same thing (though not as tasty). I think there are a few Republicans in the House that have some respect for balancing the budget. At least they (initially) opposed the buyout. But other than that, I'm not so sure

Be careful of your thoughts; they could become words and deeds at any minute.

Re:The party of big government

[jesdynf]

I've voted Libertarian in the two elections prior to this one; I live in Texas, so it's not like non-Republican votes count anyways.

This year? The best way to advance the libertarian agenda? I voted for the Democrat. Straight ticket, in fact.

Torture? Indefinite detention? This is how we do things in America, is it?

Here's the whole thing in a nutshell -- I can win an argument about money. I can't win an argument about what God told you to do, and I'm mad that I have to even try. "God says it's the right thing to do" caused all this garbage. The proper response to 9/11 was $500 in cabin door locks and a *memo to the pilots* explaining how certain critical assumptions we made were flawed. Everything else is exactly what the American-educated bin Laden expected and in fact desired. Mission accomplished, O spiritual warrior. And the Republican party as a whole gets tarred with this brush because they didn't step up to defend the Constitution of our nation.

I've deliberately done what I can to force the Republican Party to fracture and squeeze out either the godnuts or the socially liberal. Then maybe I can vote for economic conservatism without lumping it in with votes for totemic spirits. I'll deal with four or eight years of bad financial decisions because even if the far right wingnuts are correct, I'd STILL rather starve than torture and kill for Jesus.

(So far I've been (apparently) banned on RedState and been banned on FreeRepublic. You'd think they'd be more sensitive to Constitutional issues, especially among people historically voting libertarian.)

Re:United States Socialist Republic

[antiaktiv]

I can't tell if this is a joke or not, but people all over the world are laughing at the notion of Obama being a socialist. As in the 90s, at least we can rejoice over the lesser of two evils winning.

As a Canadian, let me say...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well done, America. You've taken your first step toward re-establishing your international credibility by voting out the Republicans, who have played a large part in engineering the current state of international affairs. We recognize that your country is in a pretty deep hole left by the last administration, but we trust you'll do your best.

Re:As a Canadian, let me say...

[Yvan256]

Yeah, but remember that for a while, Canadian Tire money was worth more than the US dollar.

At least when shopping at Canadian Tire, eh?

Re:Two words

[s0litaire]

Yup! he voted for his son, Obama... :D

Re:W00t! Welfare for all!

[Il128]

Under Bush we all got "Stimulus checks" redistribution of wealth, we "nationalized banks", we "nationalized insurance companies", we "nationalized brokerage houses", and we gave trillions in welfare to Iraq...

And now you're worried about socialism? Welcome to last year.

Re:Two words

[molog]

Why? Is Obama really that much better than McCain? Would McCain have been worse than Bush? I just saw two complete liars campaigning. Obama just got away with telling bigger lies. The only thing I can hope for is that the Republicans can filibuster the Democrats' bills. Not so much to push a Republican agenda, but to keep either party from screwing us any more than they currently do.

Molog

Re:Obligatory!

[Goffee71]

Nak, you should be welcoming your new "hey-buddy-just-the-same-as-you-lord", I thought that was his stand, anyway I don't see any death-laser-eyeballs or fists of fury that Palin was packing.

Thanks, American voters.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure I'll be modded out, but as an Australian... can I just say, THANK YOU America for making the right decision.

Your country has a huge influence on us and I am so glad you are taking a positive step forward into what I hope will be a new era for us all.

Congratulations on making a historic event happen

[Drakkenmensch]

Watching on CNN the sea of people in Chicago cheering for President Elect Obama and his victory speech convinced me that this was one of those unique moments, the kind that people decades from now will remember and ask each other "Do you remember where you were when Obama was elected?" Truly a great moment.

Hope and fear

[Cro Magnon]

Hope because the idiots that have been running the country for nearly a decade are gone, fear that the new bunch of idiots aren't any better.

Re:Two words

[matthardcast]

The democrats now control the house, senate, and the presidency. I think "dear god" might be more appropriate.

Ron Paul

[hansamurai]

This was easily the best election I ever participated in. Mostly because of Ron Paul. He opened my eyes to real liberty and true freedoms, and I've been a changed person man ever since. I'm not going to take crap from the two parties sitting down anymore, and I have real hope for this country, that someday we all might really be free from the federal government. I was also exposed to Ayn Rand and read her fiction, and really enjoyed it.

I wrote Ron Paul in, and I was beyond happy the rest of the day. It honestly felt awesome to vote for someone that I honestly believe in, an opportunity I've never taken before.

Re:Ron Paul

[orzetto]

I was also exposed to Ayn Rand

Please report immediately to decontamination area 4. Remember to burn all your clothes. Exposed items you wish to decontaminate must be collected in a sealed, transparent plastic bag and handed in to the paramedical personnel at your decontamination area.

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[account_deleted]

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Re:Two words

[ByOhTek]

Where have you been the past 8 years?

Anyway, I can't say Obama would be significantly better (or worse) than McCain, McCain just too much risk of Palin becoming president. I think she would have made us look back on the "golden years of Bush"

I recorded..

[DanWS6]

all of the campaign ads so I can slowly wean myself off instead of going cold turkey.

where are mod points where you need them

[pimpimpim]

Nicely put!

As far as the new president is concerned: the guy has a lot of shit to clean up now, and we don't even know what's still coming. He will have to take a lot of unpopular measures, and I really wonder if he can keep a high popularity for long.

Re:where are mod points where you need them

[brian0918]

The problem with cleaning it up is that he has proposed - like McCain - to make it worse rather than better. You can't fix government interference in the economy with increased interference.

Re:God didn't

[ByOhTek]

No, I know many of use who belive in God who voted Obama.

And if people were truely sick of being treated like shit, there would be 3rd party candidates in the house and senate, enough of them were up for election!

Re:Birth pangs of our great socialism

[Anonymous Coward]

You can sit on the sidelines, complaining your way to complete misery. Or you can get on board with Obama and his supporters, and do what needs to be done to get this nation back on track.

Seriously, dude, Obama is not a socialist, and Bush put an end to more liberties than Obama would ever have any inclination to end. Your views are seriously out of line with reality. On second thought, maybe it is best if you stay on the sidelines.

Re:Two words

[canUbeleiveIT]

I have never seen such hysteria for a candidate in my life. With the type of overwrought messianic expectations that he faces, there is no way to go for Obama but down.

I'm not saying that he deserves it, but when these pie-in-the-sky types realize that he is human like the rest, and that he won't be able to wipe the tear from every eye, his approval rating will take a serious hit.

Re:Congratulations on making a historic event happ

[Rogerborg]

I was writing joystick handling code on a Ubuntu install running under VMware. Truly, a momentous occasion.

The Real Surprise is in Alaska

[shma]

Obama's win was widely predicted, although most people underestimated his support (right now, it looks like he will take 364 electoral votes).

The biggest surprise of the night is in Alaska, where against all odds, they elected a convicted criminal to the US senate.

Re:The Real Surprise is in Alaska

[maz2331]

They know he'll be expelled, but that the Governor (
Palin) will appoint his successor to serve out the rest of the term.

It was basically a choice of "yes" or "no" to giving a Republican seat to the Democrats.

Everyone knows Stevens is going to prison. His reelection just serves as a placeholder for the person who's actually going to take the Senate seat in his stead.

I don't believe that the Governor can appoint herself to the post, so at least the Democrats don't have to worry about hearing the words "Senator Palin".

Re:The Real Surprise is in Alaska

[shma]

They know he'll be expelled, but that the Governor ( Palin) will appoint his successor to serve out the rest of the term....I don't believe that the Governor can appoint herself to the post, so at least the Democrats don't have to worry about hearing the words "Senator Palin".

Actually, it's a little more complicated than that, even if he is kicked out of the senate, which requires a 2/3 majority senate vote that is not guaranteed (Stevens wasn't even supposed to be elected, so I'm not making ANY assumptions here).

In Alaska, the governor doesn't have the power to appoint senators. If he is kicked out, Palin will have to call a special election. And I don't believe that there's any law forbidding her from running. So 'Senator Palin' is most certainly a possibility.

And regardless of their intent, over 106,000 Alaskans still put down a vote for a convicted criminal. The extreme partisanship required to do that is beyond comprehension.

Re:Finally!

[st0rmshad0w]

Well honestly what can you expect, when the last band of idiots was allowed to run up a 7 trillion dollar deficit? SOMEONE is going to have to pay that off.

Oh goshdarnit! That other guy git in

[91degrees]

What's his name again? Sadam Hussain Obama Bin Laden or something. Now if that ain't a Muslim name I don't know what is. America is meant to be a Christian country. It says so right there in the First Amendment, and it was that way back when we were founded by Jey-sus in 0AD. And now he's goin' to make an Oath on the Koran, change us all into Muslims and move the US to the middle east and we'll all have to join Al Quaeda and blow ourselves up. I don't know what I'm gonna do.

Re:United States Socialist Republic

[falcon5768]

They are laughing at the fact the republicans THOUGHT he was. There was nothing socialist he was proposing that we are not already doing, and nearly half our friends we terms a "democracy" are truthfully socialist democracies. The socialist claim was truly one of the STUPIDEST moves the neocons could have pulled, especially when their darling base polarizing vise prez nominee actually PRACTICED socialism by redirecting oil drilling profits to state residence.

Anyone know about the rest of the US?

[Nazlfrag]

Did Puerto Rico vote? American Samoa? Marshall islanders? You crazy cats have taxation without representation, have colonies without a vote. I recall that sort of nonsense stirred a revolution once before...

Re:Anyone know about the rest of the US?

[nycguy]

Residents of Puerto Rico, American Samoa and the Marshall Islands do not pay federal income tax. They do pay Social Security and Medicare taxes but they are also eligible for benefits from those programs. To have representation in Congress (relevant to "taxation without representation"), those territories would need to petition for statehood. Puerto Rico, in particular, has consistently voted not to do so.

Obligitory Simpsons

[Rik Sweeney]

Kent Brockman: I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply doesn't work.

Re:Two words

[Jedi Alec]

I have never seen such hysteria for a candidate in my life. With the type of overwrought messianic expectations that he faces, there is no way to go for Obama but down.

I'm not saying that he deserves it, but when these pie-in-the-sky types realize that he is human like the rest, and that he won't be able to wipe the tear from every eye, his approval rating will take a serious hit.

As far as a good part of the rest of the world...we don't think you elected a messiah. We're just glad you didn't elect the 3rd incarnation of the fucking antichrist.

Democrats and Republicans represent the same ideal

[betterunixthanunix]

A person who lived through the collapse of the soviet union once pointed out that in America, the only relevant political parties are the Capitalist party and the Capitalist party. Democrats and Republicans disagree on a handful of very minor issues, despite all the media trumpeting about one being "left" and one being "right." The Democrats will still pass legislation that favours big businesses, just a different group of businesses. No president since the 1950s has served an entire term without engaging America in some foreign conflict. The use of signals intelligence operations to spy on foreign businesses and pass along their trade secrets to US businesses has occurred during both the Clinton and Bush administrations, and during both Democrat and Republican control of Congress.

If America wanted serious change, change that was not just superficial, then one of the third party candidates would have one.

At the very least, it is a good thing that the neoconservative movement appears to have weakened a bit in this election. Do not confuse neoconservative and Republican -- while most neocons are Republicans, most Republicans are not neoconservative and many Republicans found the neoconservatives to be embarrassing.

Re:All I can say now is...

[bigmouth_strikes]

Yeah, you're absolutely right. It's going to take a lot of hard work to undo the backward progress and bad decisions that the Bush gov't lied and cheated the American people into. But it's a serious job for grown-ups who are not afraid let reason and long-term strategy prevail, instead of fighting fire with fire 'til the house is burnt down. Luckily, there will soon be a responsible adult in the White House.

Re:Two words

[dbIII]

Why? Is Obama really that much better than McCain? Would McCain have been worse than Bush?

No, however you would have had to put up with a lot of the status quo since even the most honest of Republicans would find it difficult to remove the most corrupt or incompetant entrenched in various nooks and crannies. The same could apply if there had been a corrupt Democrat administration but it would take a few years with nobody really watching before that could happen while some of the current crooks have should have rap sheets dating back to Nixon's administration.

One thing I've noticed from being in a place that had a far more corrupt government is that the replacements make an effort to try to be squeaky clean even if is against their nature. Also the Republicans now have a chance to purge criminal elements which they would not have if they had won, so I think it's better for them and the USA than if they had won. The bizzare shift to Monarchy within the Republican party and the rest of the odd neocon agenda has hopefully been laid to rest with this election if it wasn't already.

Re:Two words

[Bloodoflethe]

I think the thank god was in reference to the no recount. I could be wrong, but that is what my 'Thank God' reaction was aimed at.

Re:Two words

[MMC Monster]

Absolutely. Let's give the guy some room to see what a Democratic president with Democratic congress can do for four years.

There's always the '12 elections. If things are still bad then, the Republicans will have a (relatively) easy time.

Re:Two words

[Ztream]

Funny, I was watching the same speech, and I thought he went out of his way to stress that this goes beyond the campaign. I guess I'm just retarded.

Regarding his concrete plans, he's a *politician*. None of the candidates have provided much in the way of concrete plans, much to my frustration. There is no doubt that Obama can fail to live up expectations -- hell, I don't see how he *can* -- but that goes for any new president, and America wouldn't have a separate presidential election if it was all about the issues as opposed to the person.

This will certainly be interesting.

Re:Two words

[kosty]

Well, I don't wanna' get all "tit-for-tat" here with that "love it or leave it" crap *I've* had to listen to for far too long. Oh, wait. Yes I do.

Think GW Bu$h ever DREAMED he'd be THIS much of a uniter? Mwahahahahahahahaha!

Did you hear his speech?

[spectrokid]

Did you listen to the same speech as I did? Of course he thanked his campaign team, these people just busted their ass for the last 6 months. But he also clearly pointed out the problems lying ahead. What did you want him to say? Make a list of all his plans again? A majority of americans just APPROVED those plans! He clearly stated that this election by itself did not constitute change, that the promessed change was only now starting and would not be possible without the hard work of all americans.

Re:Birth pangs of our great socialism

[techsoldaten]

Go slouch towards Gommorah somewhere else. Just because you think you are right doesn't mean other people are not. I mean, jeez, it's going to take 20 years to clean up after W before anyone could even talk about really changing society in any meaningful way.

Calling Obama a socialist after 8 years of Bush growing the government, giving titanic bailout packages to Wall Street, keeping companies alive on corporate welfare, propping up economic figures by ignoring the excesses of an industry, giving companies incentives to send jobs overseas, fighting wars that benefit no one, and all the other garbage that has been kicked up since 2000 is plain nuts. We are emerging from a form of socialism directed solely at the top 1% of Americans and it is time to move on.

M

Re:Two words

[bigstrat2003]

Well, there was no chance of that either way. We did, however, elect a bad president... but we were going to do that no matter what.

Obama, contrary to popular belief, is yet another power-hungry, self-serving politician. He proved this to anyone who pays attention when he cast his vote for telecom immunity (in other words: you can break the law, as long as the president says it's OK to do so). With a loose regard for the law like he showed he has, I do not look forward to seeing what new abuses of presidential power this man will perpetrate.

It's funny, though... Obama is quite possibly the biggest con man I've ever seen. I have great admiration for his skills at deceiving people, even as I'm disgusted with my fellow countrymen for being taken in by a swindler so easily. Truly an exemplary politician, even if he is a bad statesman.

Re:Two words

[Zero__Kelvin]

Why would we begin the prayer after it has been answered?

Re:Two words

[bheer]

McCain isn't the antichrist. Not by a long shot. And I said this as an Obama supporter. He's served this country (more honorably than many senators) for a long time.

When will you get it into your head that your your political opponent isn't automatically evil incarnate? That may work for vi-vs-emacs and Apple-vs-MS wars on /., but it's just juvenile in the real world.

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Agreed.

[Anonymous Coward]

I voted for Barr - even though I was rooting for Obama.

Why didn't I vote for Obama? Because I'm so disgusted with BOTH the Democratic and Republican parties that I,at least, wanted to send a message that, regardless of their candidate, I do not approve of their policies and direction.

As far as I'm concerned, the Bill of Rights, all of them, are cast in stone. We can't pick and choose which ones to keep.

Every square millimeter of the US is a Free Speech Zone.

We have the right to bare arms. PERIOD. That means if I want a magazine that holds 50+ rounds, I can have it. If I want a machine gun, so be it. Handgun -you bet - and NO license if I want to carry.

There is a separation between church and state. Religion has no business in government.

Re:Agreed.

[rugatero]

We have the right to bare arms. I don't think anyone is trying to infringe on your right to wear a short-sleeved shirt.

Re:Two words

[cayenne8]

"Let's hope"

Ok...he won.

Now...honestly, what do you think is really going to change?

Do you think he'll get the Dems to undo the Patriot Act?

Do you think he'll get to the bottom of and stop the Wiretaps on US Citizens?

Do you think he'll have us 100% out of Iraq in the next week? Month? Year? Decade?

Will he magically fix the economy? If so, how long? What exactly is he going to do?

Will he walk on water?

Ok...the last one was a joke, but, seriously, everyone that seems to be treating his election as the 'second coming', what exactly do you think has changed, or what to you see as the time table to be looking for all this "change"?

You just made his point

[Quila]

The Patriot Act was passed by a Republican Congress and signed by a Republican president.

Re:You just made his point

[CrimsonAvenger]

98 Senators voted for the Patriot Act. Only one voted against. The Republicans weren't alone in passing it.

357 Representatives voted for the Patriot Act. Only 55 voted against. Again, the Republicans weren't alone in passing it.

Note that the political climate of the time was such that if the Democrats had controlled both houses of Congress, odds are it would have been passed by similar majorities.

Re:Two words

[Veretax]

McCain would tax the Poor?? really? If you really believe that then McCain's campaign has failed even worse than I'd imagined. Not once has he said he'd raise taxes on the Poor. Good Grief!

As an european...

[Nuffsaid]

As a male white Italian with no involvement into USA elections, I have to admit that this morning I cried and laughed hearing what just happened in a big nation far far away. This changes everything. The politics of fear will end. Black people won't be seen "out of place" in any place from now on. Things won't go worse all the time, like last years made us think! A big thank you to the US people. This affects us all.

Re:As an european...

[mk2mark]

Yea and windows 7 won't be bloated, expensive and unreliable.

Not that that's what I'm saying, but I don't think speculation and newfounded faith in utopian America is going to make it happen.

Re:As an european...

[goldspider]

"This changes everything. The politics of fear will end. Black people won't be seen 'out of place' in any place from now on."

You might think so, but I assure you that the industry of racial divisiveness is still alive and well. This won't make the Jesse Jacksons or Al Sharptons go away. Just wait for the reaction when people start criticizing President Obama.

Re:Thank God

[jez9999]

Hmm, I thought cow orkers tended toward the Republicans more?

Re:Two words

[deniable]

More importantly, a vote for McCain was a vote for Rove and friends. Rewarding them with another four years would have been interesting in a Chinese curse kind of way.

History, sacrifice, hope and gaps

[gsn]

I'm not American and couldn't vote but I've spent all my adult life here and the last eight years have affected my life in much the same ways it affected yours. I'm very glad there were record turnouts, whoever you voted for.

I think its good to recognize this as a historic and important moment. I stayed up all night working and listening to the coverage. It is a night I'll remember and I'm admittedly quite happy. Certainly, there is hope, a word I haven't heard much off since 2001. I'm very glad that he acknowledged that the real work lies ahead and that it will take a spirit of service and sacrifice and both of them talked about coming together and bridging the gaps that have cut this nation.

Bridging gaps is a hugely critical message today. There is an interesting discordant note between all the commentators speaking about how this marks the end of slavery and the fruition of the civil rights movement and the change of a generation, and what looks like a yes vote on Proposition 8 in California. When the dust has settled, there is going to be much talk about the way different demographics voted and the gaps that represents. I hope it will not take 40 years for all of us to recognize that in the end, beyond nationality, skin colour, sexual orientation, religious beliefs or background, we are all just human beings.

Re:Two words

[Missing_dc]

Actually, we may have just elected the 3rd incarnation of the antichrist.
(first 2 being Napoleon and Hitler)
That is of course if Maitreya is not the antichrist.

It all depends on if we are the new Babylon or if Iraq is the new incarnation of Babylon. According to most conjecture on the timeline of this subject, we should know by fall of next year if Obama is the latest incarnation of the antichrist. Lets see if he ends up with control of the world.

Re:Finally!

[bigmouth_strikes]

What's with the obsession with taxes? The difference in taxation of the last 30 years worth of budgets with their tax breaks and tax hikes are comparatively small with regards to your consuming power as it relates to other economic effects and measures.

Take the last 8 years for instance, GW Bush has effectively wiped out any tax-break by a) running up the deficit b) running up the inflation c) spending trillions of your tax money on a phony war and d) financial crisis.

So a 3-5% tax break on a $100,000 income is pointless with a 4-5% inflation and mortgage rates almost doubling the last few years.

Looking strictly at what ends up in your pocket after the taxes are paid and not what you get for your taxes or the overall economic situation is a simple reaction to a simplified issue from a simple person.

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Re:Two words

[michrech]

Sounds like you've been watching Fox "News". Shortly after Obama made his speech last night, I tuned in to see what they were saying, and pretty much heard *exactly* what you just typed.

No, he's not going to do any of those things in the first week, month, or most likely even first year he's in office. The shit Bush & Co. has done will take far longer to unravel, but he can start the process.

Quit being so damned bitter and actually start helping your fellow countrymen instead of being an asshole because your guy didn't win.

The thing that absolutely amazes me...

[The Ultimate Fartkno]

...is the international reaction to Obama's win. I knew that the reputation of America and Americans had been battered over the past few years, but I never suspected that it was as bad as it was. I watched the results last night, said a little "huzzah!" when Obama was declared, listened as McCain gave a warm, dignified, and gentlemanly concession speech, and then went to bed thinking I'd seen it all. I woke up at about 4:45 this morning and I've been flipping between news stations ever since. I got a little emotional last night during the speeches, but I'm absolutely devastated by the number of non-Americans who are dancing in the streets over Obama's win. I never thought I'd see video of a few hundred Chinese people jumping around and chanting "Obama! Obama!" A reporter in France walked up to a woman and simply said "Obama?" Her face lit up and she simply said "C'est formidable!" Kenyans are throwing feasts in his honor. Arab and Persian states are happy. Israel is happy. Pakistan is happy. Australians are losing their damned minds over it. Russia is... well, they're kinda grumpy, but they're not having a good year. And all morning I've been hitting my usual haunts (/., Fark, CNN, BBC, & more) and I keep seeing messages posted by people from a zillion different countries congratulating us and thanking us for "making the right choice." Before you ask, yes I voted for him, no, I don't think he's the messiah, and yes, I'm still pissed at him for breaking his promise over campaign financing. But even with all that, I still can't shake the feeling that something *seriously* important happened last night. I'm almost 40, so I've seen a few elections, but never in my life have I seen or felt the kind of excitement that's in the air right now. It seems like all sorts of barriers have just... vanished. Racial, political, international, interpersonal, it just all seems different now. I know that part of it is just the morning-after buzz of having your candidate win, but there's something special about having a friend email you and tell you how they got hugged twice in Germany while wearing an Obama t-shirt and walking to the bakery on the corner, then reading a post that says "The Netherlands are happy for you!" The world stood up and took notice of us this morning. I hope he doesn't let us down.

Thus endeth my waxing philosophical.

Re:The thing that absolutely amazes me...

[Uberbah]

and yes, I'm still pissed at him for breaking his promise over campaign financing.

Then you're pissed over nothing, as he never promised to take public financing. He promised he'd be willing to work on it with the Republican candidate - big difference. If you need to hold something against him, there's always his FISA flip flop.

Re:Finally!

[sxpert]

That's fine. How about those who would rather invest their money in innovative companies that build jobs? Oh, too bad, they have to give it to the government as a handout to the unproductive, who will remain unproductive as long as they're sucking on mama's teat.

hmm, well... last I checked, companies in question were designing things in india, producing in china, and selling the shit in the US, all in the name of giving the pension funds their annual 20% profits... I don't see no US jobs in there
so no, it doesn't make any sense to do what you're advocating

Re:Two words

[Andy Dodd]

"We're just glad you didn't elect the 3rd incarnation of the fucking antichrist."

Even though I voted Obama and am VERY glad he won, I think that's overly harsh on McCain. Every impression I got was that he was more intelligent and sane than the Texas Village Idiot.

The problem is that McCain and Palin ran on a platform that catered to the same uneducated religious nutjobs that Bush appealed to. That platform backfired on them, when their "This is Real America" small-town speeches pissed off the (according to them) educated "Fake Americans" living in suburbs and cities. I may live in a small town now, but I grew up in the suburbs and many of their speeches implied that I was not a "Real American", which I found quite insulting.

Signed,
"Fake American" (aka educated ex-suburban-resident)

Re:yeah

[aaron alderman]

Yeah! Now we have lunatic left wing ideology running the country.

Let me be the first to day that, I for one...

[alcmaeon]

...welcome our new black, arab, muslim, atheist, socialist, communist, not-born-in-america, terrorist, redistributionist-in-chief overlord.

LOL!

Seriously, from all of us in fake America to all of you in real America, thanks for the laughs...and the winks. Let's not forget the winks.

Go Obama!

Re:Two words

[alcmaeon]

I have never seen such hysteria for a candidate in my life. With the type of overwrought messianic expectations that he faces, there is no way to go for Obama but down.

I take it you were born after the 1984 Reagan-Mondale election.

Re:Two words

[Anonymous Coward]

just because you heard it on fox news doesn't mean it's incorrect.

Yes, it does.

Re:Two words

[Hognoxious]

I doubt he's likely to make things worse - and for most people, that's enough on its own. Damning with faint praise, or just a reflection of how bad King George Bush II was? I heard dubya was 6 points lower in the approval ratings than Nixon was - after he was indicted.

Re:Two words

[v1]

My favorite thing to hear on Fox was a discussion going on to do with the state of the economy, and how "we are only now seeing the full effects of the Clinton presidency". I about fell out of my chair.

I do realize that change cannot be immediate, but there are limits. Considering how long we've had a Bush for president, continuing to blame the past just flies in the face of all reason.

Now it still concerns me to stand by and watch just how much more damage the Lame Duck can do before the clean-up crew moves in.

I think....

[tkrotchko]

Based on the "hopes" of a lot of people, the poor guy is going to disappoint a lot of people.

His supporters who think he'll change everything.

His detractors who think he'll change everything.

Take a look at a list of presidents for the past 40 years and you'll see no one president fundamentally changes everything. Can't be done. A president doesn't have that sort of power.

As I tell everyone, whoever gets elected you hope he/she does well for our country, because then everyone wins.

Re:I think....

[mopower70]

He's black. He's President. He's already changed everything.

Re:I think....

[Killjoy_NL]

Not just that, but look at the international effect it has had already?
People are positive about the US again, that can only help you guys over there.

(Dutchman here)

Re:I think....

[mrjohnson]

He ran his campaign based on a large part by individual donations over the Internet. It's a remarkable thing -- Obama doesn't owe any favors to companies or even to his own party.

He knows he can simply raise any money he needs on his own. That's why all of his speeches are "we", "our" and he's talking about "you" all the time. He owes the people, not the interests.

Of all of our modern presidents, he does have the best hope of actually accomplishing change.

Re:I think....

[Viking Coder]

Advocating on behalf of a group that has lower than average educational achievement, lifetime salaries, and for that matter life expectancy, is not racism.

Heralding the achievements of a symbolic leader of that group, and hoping that it has a motivational impact on the rest of the group, is also not racist.

Re:I think....

[Skrynesaver]

Indeed, while remarks about villages missing their idiot may have been partisan, the civilised world was horrified with the re-election of Bush, and with the (in my opinion foolish) exception of Britain you lost all international co-operation.

May I be among the first to welcome you back from the neo-con wasteland and hope that we can all proceed from where Clinton left off, in a spirit of international co-operation
(Irishman here)

Re:I think....

[nschubach]

So you're telling me that Racism is blind as long as the race that is being highlighted makes less money? Or do you still blame the poor education system on a cranky white guy who hates blacks and not the neighborhood full of racist blacks who scare out white teachers by threatening their life and claiming that they are trying to take over the neighborhood? Are you telling me that if an accomplished white doctor decided to live in a predominately black neighborhood and work at the hospital there, that he'd feel safe walking home at night?

I think you have a skewed view on what racism is. It has no gray areas. It doesn't only apply to the majority of a country. It applies to everyone. Just because black America has pushed out everything in the name of "keeping their culture" (or whatever other excuses are used) doesn't make it right because they are the minority.

There should be no continuation of race based programs, organizations, or policies. In order to remove racism, you have to treat everyone the same and stop promoting based on race alone. Racism will not vanish overnight, but it will vanish over time.

Re:I think....

[StreetStealth]

Obama doesn't owe any favors to companies or even to his own party.

Let's not be too hasty here: It's not like Obama didn't also receive major support from industry donors. So while we shouldn't discount that part of this victory is owed to our corporate overlords, we still, as you say, shouldn't discount that part is due to the folks in your neighborhood.

Money talks; let's hope the unprecedented small donations from individuals this time talked loudly enough.

I'm cautiously optimistic.

Re:Two words

[Smidge204]

So you honestly believe that the only reason so many people voted fro him was race? How sad.

It may also surprise you that, in retrospect, experience is not correlated to being a good president, and in fact some of the the most inexperienced presidents have been some of the most successful.

Compare it to the alternative McCain, who's political convictions apparently run so shallow that nearly all of them did a complete 180 in the four years since his last attempt at the oval office. His campaign was run by anyone but him and the choosing of Palin should shake even the most stalwart GOP supporter's confidence in that man's executive capabilities.

I'll take "confident and inspirational" over "schizophrenic and incompetent" any day, even if "experience" is lacking.
=Smidge=

Messiah

[Prien715]

With the world in financial crisis, two wars, and our civil liberties gone down the tubes, isn't it time for a charismatic leader with dreams rather than Joe from accounting?

When did we become so cynical that we believed nothing would change? I suppose there were people said the same thing when FDR was elected.

When did we become a nation of "that's too hard" instead of "yes we can"?

Re:Two words

[michrech]

Well, I wouldn't go as far as "anti-christ", however, he has turned out to be a terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE human being.

He only started slinging the mud as thickly as he did at Obama because Obama changed his mind on the town hall meetings? How old is McCain, 3?

He's talking about how we're going to "win the war in Iraq" if he becomes president? Perhaps the old man forgot that "the war" was won within a few days (weeks?) of us heading over there and that, now, we're an occupying force and no longer in war? Hell, he was in at *least* one war -- he should know you can't "win" an occupation.

He wanted to take 300 billion of the 700 billion and buy up a whole bunch of mortgages, re-negotiate them with lower interest rates and at the *current* value of the houses, and OBAMA is the socialist?!

My friends, that's only the beginning of what a terrible man McCain is. Combine him (with his poor health) with Sarah "We're on a mission from god in Iraq" Palin, and we'd have been fucked like we never imagined with Bush in office.

Is Obama perfect? No, he's human like the rest of us, but we're *FAR* better off with him than freakin' McCain/Palin...

Re:Two words

[Danathar]

Blaming Bush will only work for so long. If Voters took account of who was responsible for problems they would of tossed out Dems and Republicans in congress since the Democratic congress does hold some responsibility for their actions over the last two years, but the fact of the matter is that whomever is in the White house defines which party is responsible regardless of who is REALLY responsible.

Complaining about trains not running on time and management is FAR different than making the trains run on time and BEING management.

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Re:More than Two words

[AKAImBatman]

I hope the American people are smart enough to realize that Bush has buried them deeeep into the sh*t hole and that it will take a while to dig out of it.

I would have hoped that the American people would be smart enough to know that the crisis was a bi-partisan failure. From Credit Default Swaps passing the Senate as a rider 98-0, to the Bush Administration sounding the alarm in 2003 but being ignored, to Barney Frank famously telling the House Republicans that there is nothing wrong with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (and getting the backing of House Democrats), to the Republicans blocking the Fannie/Freddie bill once it reached the Senate, there is plenty of blame to spread around.

The truth is that the economic crisis happened because the financial markets found new ways to be greedy that no one understood. When the powers that be looked at the balance sheets, they'd see these odd financial instruments and mortgage-backed securities and just shrug and say, "We trust that you guys are educated and know what you're doing. Besides, it seems to be working." Only now that they're falling apart is it clear to everyone how underhanded and vile these various financial instruments were. It's all crystal clear in 20/20 hindsight.

That being said, McCain didn't help himself any by appointing Grahm and Fiorna as his advisors. Having the guy responsible for CDSes and the most hated CEO in history (at least, that hasn't been prosecuted) didn't exactly endear him to the American public.

Re:Two words

[bheer]

> It is juvenile to think someone is evil because they use a
> different text editor.

Most folk on /. know it's juvenile. Those who accuse their political opponents of being evil usually don't. Hint: if your political opponent was truly evil, you probably wouldn't be around. Just ask some Zimbabweans who dared oppose Mugabe and were found in a ditch with their limbs torn off.

> It is just clarity to see evil in someone who will bring
> suffering to millions of people.

By that measure FDR would qualify as "evil" - his policies (including the US' insistence on the gold standard long after other nations abandoned it) extended the Depression for the US for at least 6 years and caused suffering to millions of people.

"Evil" is a loaded word. Sending people to Siberia to starve and die is evil. Sending jews and gays to bake in Polish camp ovens is evil.

If you think McCain is evil, you're deluded _and_ are cheapening the meaning of the word.

Re:Two words

[jambox]

The hope is that he won't make things any worse. That, at least, makes me and many other people both inside and outside the US feel a lot safer. Perhaps he'll go the way of Jimmy Carter, but even if he does, at least we can be fairly sure there won't be another pointless war or needless reduction of civil liberties.

Re:Two words

[dkleinsc]

A coworker of mine described his vote very simply: "My fear with McCain is that he will do as he says. My fear with Obama is that he won't."

My response to those concerns is very simple: if he does half of what he says he'll do, that's still a big win.

Dear label-happy US-ians

[Don_dumb]

What's so bad about socialism?
Do you honestly think that voting in Obama is going to turn the states into some sort of Soviet Russia just because SOME of his plans are similar to those in Western Europe?

Wake up and realise that it doesn't matter what the idealogical principle is. All that matters is that you do the correct action for the situation. Sometimes that action is one that reflects libertarianism, sometimes conservatism, sometimes socialism, sometimes environmentalism, sometimes etc.

Your healthcare system NEEDS drastic change, perhaps socialism. No one is suggesting a British style NHS (certainly not the British). But quite simply, whether you are proud of you country or not (and when did that matter to anything) you should be ashamed of your healthcare system.

Regards

Person-bored-with-meaningless-election-fearmongering-but-honestly-impressed-with-the-US-people.

Re:Two words

[sycodon]

>Quit being so damned bitter and actually start helping your fellow countrymen instead of being an asshole because your guy didn't win

You mean like the Democrats did in 2000 and 2004?

Re:Two words

[erroneus]

just because you heard it on fox news doesn't mean it's incorrect.

I just want to say again, Yes it does!

"Fox News" is not news. It is a commentator show. It is hard to even find a "news" show any longer. Everyone has to inject their opinions and interpretations of the carefully selected facts presented. That's commentating and editorializing -- not reporting and not news.

We need truth in labelling in everything, it seems, and not just on foods and drugs.

Re:More than Two words

[jcr]

I just hope that when he doesn't solve the economic crisis and "all of the worlds problems" that they don't blame him,

Obama has the good fortune that the crash didn't happen on his watch, so whatever he does to worsen the depression will be blamed on Bush by most people. They'll gloss over the fact that Obama voted in favor of Bush and Paulson's $850B robbery.

Hell, even today, most people think FDR ended the first great depression.

-jcr

Re:Two words

[Don_dumb]

I am sure people will point out that McCain!= Bush, and I will admit that McCain himself seems to be a man of integrity. However, much of the republican leadership is not. Palin serves as a perfect example.

As a European who has paid an interested attention to this election, it seems to me that the McCain who gave the concession speech and sat 'debating' next to John Stewart (essentially the enemy) was a man of integrity and I was impressed that he was willing to give his views to an audience that disagreed. Unfortunately the McCain on the campaign trail, the stupid negative namecalling (when Obama wasn't there), putting a 'below-Bush-intellect' Palin on the ticket, the whole 'small-towns' thing was not a man of integrity, it was a man who let too many Bush advisors on his team.
A shame because he would have had better chance without them.

Re:Two words

[MagusSlurpy]

Now it still concerns me to stand by and watch just how much more damage the Lame Duck can do before the clean-up crew moves in.

I have this image in my mind of Dubya, on January 19th, starting "police actions" in about 20 countries, and saying, "Let's see him fix this!"

Re:Two words

[ricosalomar]

For me, as a person born in the Southern US in the 1960s, this event is a very, very big deal. I've seen people do things that should never be done, and get away with it, and I never though that a black man could ever be president.

I'm very cynical about politics, but not about people. And for the first time in my life, I am truly proud to be an American.

No one expects miracles, but it feels good to put that chapter in our history at least partially to rest.

Re:Two words

[clone53421]

God? God had nothing to do with it. Thank Bush.

Re:Two words

[Mr. Mikey]

It's funny, though... Obama is quite possibly the biggest con man I've ever seen. I have great admiration for his skills at deceiving people, even as I'm disgusted with my fellow countrymen for being taken in by a swindler so easily. Truly an exemplary politician, even if he is a bad statesman.

Why would you be surprised? Weren't we taken by Clinton just as easily in the 90's?

Yeah, and look how bad the Clinton years were for this country...

Oh, wait...

Re:Two words

[jargon82]

A sadly unusual point of view. The president might be whom folks think of when presented with the term "US government" but he is not the US government. I know locally at least, almost all the incumbent members of congress went back for another term. Why is this, when approval ratings are so low?

Re:Two words

[level_headed_midwest]

Yeah, the "Bush is not my president" and "Somewhere in Texas a village lost its idiot" T-shirts and all of the /. posts about "KKKarl Rove stole the election" and "the chimp" things the Democrats did after 2000 and 2004 absolutely helped their fellow countrymen and weren't asshole things to do.

Re:Two words

[Jeff Hornby]

Actually these things can take a long time to happen. The best analysis of this crisis that I've seen so far made the case that the cause was de-regulation of banking under Reagan. It took a few years for the banks to start taking risks, it took a few more years for mass uptake of the products, etc, etc and finally 20-odd years later, we have the sub-prime crisis.

Re:Two words

[jcr]

Blaming Bush will only work for so long.

Want to bet?

Blaming Hoover worked for FDR's entire reign.

-jcr

Re:Two words

[Anonymous Coward]

You guys are missing one of the biggest things this election means. He may not be able to fix the economy, the war, the erosion of our rights, but it is a great first step to fixing something that has plagued our country since its inception. Him being elected will not fix racism but it is a big step in the right direction. I just hope it continues and we as Americans can come together and be just that. Americans, and not white or black America. If we can solve that large issue and move forward, then I believe all the other problems can be fixed in time as well.

Re:Two words

[Mantrid]

As opposed to the other completely neutral news organizations..right.

Would ****HAVE**** tossed

[Nicolas MONNET]

Also, :

- They were there for less than two years
- They are not in charge of the executive; by definition the legislative's impact is less imediate than the executive's
- Repugs fillibustered (or threatened to) almost everything the democrats tried to pass in the Senate
- Bush vetoed almost anything the democrats passed

Re:Would ****HAVE**** tossed

[Sj0]

That's just partisan bollocks. Extend the problem just far enough to blame Clinton? This crisis has a long history, I'd argue one stemming all the way back to the end of the Breton woods system under Nixon, followed by the irresponsible fiscal attitudes of Ford, Reagan and the two Bushes, accompanied by Carter and Clinton's attempts to force equal access to credit for people who shouldn't be able to afford credit.

We've had an attitude towards debt for decades that has been dangerous and irresponsible. This crisis is just some blowback from those policies.

Re:Two words

[NewbieV]

Level Headed,

Does every wrong need to be met with another wrong?

Or can we draw a line, and say "enough - time to fix the problems and reclaim the American Dream for our children and ourselves"?

Re:Two words

[nomadic]

Honest question: Why is that so bad? I've heard people go on and on ad nauseam about how she's supposedly some horrible right-wing nutjob, but what exactly makes her so terrible or rather, what makes her worse that the others?

Even putting aside the religious fundamentalism, she is very similar to Bush in that she seems to believe one doesn't have to think about issues, but rather can just make gut decisions and govern from some sort of pseudofolksy wisdom. Bush thought, and still thinks, he's a natural leader who always makes the right decisions just because it's in his nature. I got that feeling from Palin's actions as well. I mean, at the beginning of the campaign she stated that she had never really thought about the Iraq war enough to come up with a viewpoint on it. That's frightening behavior from an adult American, let alone a candidate for a major office.

Re:Two words

[Jeff Hornby]

How about the collective interests of the entire world, not just the interests of any one single country?

Re:More than Two words

[Koiu Lpoi]

Actually what alienated him from the american public was choosing an undeducated-appearing woman with no experience for a vice president. You have no idea how many times I heard "I'd vote for McCain, but he might die, and I do NOT want Palin as president."

Re:Two words

[Waffle Iron]

If we don't care who runs other countries, then why do we keep invading them?

In short...

[xstonedogx]

http://www.economist.com/vote2008/

Re:Two words

[mopower70]

Wow. Way to get the ball rolling. I'm sure your comment assuages all kinds of stereotypes about American arrogance.

Re:Two words

[Anonymous Coward]

And it should put a stop to all those people who insist they can't succeed just because they're black, too. :)

Re:Two words

[AlanS2002]

As an internationalist, socially leftist Obama supporter who believes it is vital to repair our reputation overseas,and is beyond thrilled that Obama won, let me just say: Back off. We are still the most powerful country in the world, and we chose Obama because he was the best choice for us, not for you. We are not coming to you hat in hand asking for your forgiveness, and you have no ability to put us on "notice."

As someone from the rest of the world who has seen the consequences of you bunch electing a bad president. Yeah, you elected Obama for you. However think about someone else for a change.

Re:Democrats and Republicans represent the same id

[cgenman]

I used to think that way, and helped with the Nader campaign in 2000. When Bush won, my thought was "This guy is going to be just like Clinton, or pretty close anyway."

Damn was I wrong. Apparently the Republican administration viewed every international issue as a problem to be solved by bomb-bomb-bombing. Clinton generally avoided international confligrations. I was furious when Clinton compromised down to Don't Ask - Don't Tell, but Bush's push for a homophobic constitution has that beat. Don't get me started on relative deficit levels, the Axis-of-evil and amazing bungling of international relations, and two major crisis which he had been warned about and failed to act upon. Also, having to jam shampoo into 3oz containers to get onto a plane is weak and pointless.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure any 3rd party candidate is right for now. A Libertarian "hands off" approach would simply facilitate the economy imploding further. A Green Party candidate would never be able to stomach the smoke stacks required to get us moving again. And things aren't yet bad enough to start setting fire to buildings.

Re:Two words

[BluenoseJake]

Being Canadian, We are too close, geographically and economically, to not want what is in your best interests, as they are generally intertwined and interdependent with our best interests. As our largest trading partner, if you are in economic trouble, the odds are, so are we. Now if we only had the balls and the foresight to know what is in OUR best interests, then we would be getting somewhere

Re:Two words

[Killjoy_NL]

Cool, who is it? ;)

Re:Two words

[Ihmhi]

BBC?

(This is where someone says they don't like the BBC because they have a British slant.)

Re:probably not break 175

[Hillgiant]

Wow. Racism, sexism, class warfare, and teen parenthood. All in two and a half paragraphs.

You are some kind of trolling GOD.

Re:Two words

[muckracer]

> almost all the incumbent members of congress went back for another term.
> Why is this, when approval ratings are so low?

Because of the lack of viable 3rd, 4th, 5th etc. party candidates. By viable I don't meant the candidates themselves as they have at least as much to offer as anybody else on the ballots but the representation of them. The almost complete lack of coverage of them to the point of people being surprised to see other names they never heard of on the ballots besides the two D/R candidates. This is IMHO a true shame for the nation as a whole and the media in particular. I would welcome alternative views and more than two parties of importance since I believe that the views of well over 100 million voters can not possibly be properly represented by 2 parties.

Re:Anti-White Racism in the Afro Community

[LordKronos]

Yeah, but you are also forgetting one thing? How much HIGHER would Obama's percentages be among white voters had he not been black, or supposedly muslim? Tons of white folks voted AGAINST him for no reason but skin color or perceived religion

Furthermore, you can't necessarily say it's racism. Maybe black people just really felt that Obama identified with their needs? You can find that type of pattern in many other things. For instance, look how much higher Obama's support was in major urban/suburban areas? In Florida, he barely took the vote, but in Miami, Tampa and Orlando he dominated, . North Carolina is essentially a tie, but in Raleigh, Winston-Salem, and Charlotte he dominated. Does that mean that city folk are reverse racists against white? Or that country folk are racist against blacks?

Re:Two words

[blamanj]

1) Assembly of God fundamentalist. No separation of church and state for them, they'd like the biblical version of sharia law.

2) Shows no sign of intellectual curiousity. Like Bush, she accused of being stupid, but isn't. Just ignorant. Ignorance can be cured, but I'd like a leader who curious enough to have looked into the kinds of questions she's been asked on her own.

Re:Anti-White Racism in the Afro Community

[mrchaotica]

Until Obama won the Iowa caucus, all the black people were backing Hillary Clinton anyway. They're not racists, they're just Democrats.

Re:Congratulations on making a historic event happ

[ikkonoishi]

Yeah years from now someone needs to ask Obama what he was doing when Rogerborg was writing joystick handling code on a Ubuntu install running under VMware.

Re:Anti-White Racism in the Afro Community

[Zironic]

You could argue that a lot of the white voters voted for McCain because he's white.

Re:Two words

[Ihmhi]

More importantly, a vote for McCain was a vote for Rove and friends. Rewarding them with another four years would have been interesting in a Chinese curse kind of way.

Oh son of a bitch, I can't believe this shit. Now we're even outsourcing our curses?!

Re:Anti-White Racism in the Afro Community

[NixieBunny]

Try crunching those numbers by income instead of skin color and see what comes out.

Re:Two words

[Andr T.]

...but I grew up in the suburbs and many of their speeches implied that I was not a "Real American", which I found quite insulting.)

For me, Real Americans = aztecs, siouxies, etc. I'm South American and I can say I'm an American too, or at least I should be able to.

I think this is just another type of Ad-Hominem fallacy. Americans do something -> This shouldn't be done by Americans -> They are not "real" Americans.

Re:Two words

[TheSpoom]

I was actually watching the election coverage mostly on BBC World News last night. It was kinda refreshing. They were a lot more lighthearted than the American commentators, I found... except for that blowhard John Bolton, but they got rid of him eventually (a bit after he attacked one of the Beeb's own reporters). Two of them basically called it unofficially for Obama way early on ;^)

But yeah, they had Ted Koppel and John Bolton on there, as well as a few other Americans I believe... it can hardly be said that they were giving it a "British slant". The roundtable discussion method of presenting it was quite effective, I found.

Re:Two words

[tacarat]

Daily Show

Re:Two words

[ZigMonty]

LOL, you sound like yet another arrogant american to me. You want to repair America's reputation overseas and you rely on military threat as an argument? How very internationalist of you. Besides, with 2 failed wars and your supposed allies in eastern europe crushed by the Russians, who are you trying to kid? Do you honestly believe many countries are militarily afraid of the US at this point?

Here's a little hint for you, what do you think would happen to the US if the chinese flooded the market with all the US IOUs they've been stashing away? ICBMs and aircraft carriers are so 20th century. The real big red button these days is in Beijing and is labelled SELL (err... in chinese).

Having said that, i agree with you that you, as americans, elected an american president and you are justified in being offended by people in other countries not so subtly suggesting who you should vote for. I know i'd be angry if americans tried to interfere in Australian domestic politics like that.

Obama is the president elect of the United States, not the leader of the free world. America lost that title some time ago.

Re:Anti-White Racism in the Afro Community

[earlymon]

John McCain should have won the election.

If John McCain should have won the election, John McCain would have won the election.

My question would be, why didn't 95% of whites vote for Obama?

Anti-black racism in the white American community is ugly.

Re:Two words

[truthsearch]

True, but it's the people who perpetuate the problem over time that really help it happen. Those who bought into Reaganomics are the ones who kept the problem moving along. Others over time could have reversed the trend, but chose not to.

Re:Two words

[tacarat]

These guys are Aryan nation kind of folks... I am dead serious here. Check out the number of women that are blond. You can't get away from it. Kind of scary actually...

Oh shit! 99% of my porn collection is white supremacist?

Re:Two words

[DrLang21]

No it won't. Obama is technically interracial. It should quell the interracial people from insisting they can't succeed, but it will do nothing for people insisting they can't succeed because they are black. You don't give people enough credit for finding ways to pass blame to things they are not in control of.

Re:Two words

[h4rm0ny]

Well then for the sake of ending racism, I hope you will all join me in not giving a shit what colour he is. The rhetoric that's been spewing out of some people's mouths when they can't talk for more than a minute about his actual stated policies is really starting to get nauseating. Some people are going to get one Hell of a shock from this.

Re:Anti-White Racism in the Afro Community

[erroneus]

"GET OVER IT."

And look at it this way. If you are sick of Anti-white racism in the African-American community, then I say you just won a tremendous victory!

The fact is, Obama is more or less the picture perfect image of a black man that white people don't fear. He maintains most all of his cultural identity and yet he is respectful, respectable, speaks well, is very intelligent and doesn't speak in rhymes. Obama is no dumb-ass.

And why is this a tremendous victory for you? Simple. What you likely hate the most is the rhetoric and the guilt and shame imposed on you because you were born a white male. Well guess what, now that we elected a black man for president, there is a LOT less they can say... there is a black man in the highest office. What else do they have to complain about that could be valid? When Obama fails to dish out the welfare, what are they going to say now? "Sell-out?" (maybe...)

Re:Anti-White Racism in the Afro Community

[bdonalds]

Ummm....African-Americans have been voting Democrat at about a 90% clip in recent history. Kerry and Gore are fairly white, if I recall correctly.

Re:Two words

[ArcherB]

How about the collective interests of the entire world, not just the interests of any one single country?

That's all well and good, but the job of the US president is to be the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, not the world. If you want a world president, have your country's leader propose the idea to the UN or whoever. But for now, the POTUS's primary concern should be the well being of the USA. The rest of the world is important, but not first.

Re:More than Two words

[AKAImBatman]

Glass-Steagall (spell it right, people!) is a scapegoat. The situation is far more complex than that. Did weakening that bill have an impact? Absolutely. But it was only part of the problem. The real problem was the excessive greed and risk aversion in the financial market that lead to the creation of new financial instruments to sneakily make risk everyone else's problem. CDSes would have happened regardless of Glass-Steagall, and banks would have found alternative methods of making their financial risks someone else's problem.

There's a fairly good take on this issue here: http://www.bapcha.com/?p=53

The Glass-Steagall act probably should be reinstated, but moreover we should kick the greedy bastards out of Wall Street and replace them with the more conservative financial leaders who were slowly pushed out by the instant-gratification morons.

Re:Two words

[tmosley]

I seem to remember something about the antichrist being a "false prophet", where people seem to think of Obama as a "messiah".

Now, I don't put much stock in religion, but Obama certainly fits the criteria for an antichrist much moreso than McCain (not to say that McRage isn't a crazy asshole, made bitter by his 2000 loss, who would lead us into Tehran guns ablazing).

In four years, everyone here is going to wish they had voted for Ron Paul. Obama can't fix the economy while maintaining the status quo, which is the corporate backed mandate he and any other mainstream candidate has. It'll just get worse and worse and worse, just like it did under FDR. They'll still call him a "great" president, I'm sure.

If Ron Paul had made it, he would have struck at the root of the issue, which is the stranglehold that the central bank has on this nation, and the problems that arise from their arrogant central planning.

Oh well. Maybe there will be a chance in 2012 for some REAL change.

Only in the US

[Nicopa]

The US is so right-wing-conservative that a self called "internationalist, socially leftist" can be so to the right! I hope Obama is a step towards fixing that for them...

Re:Two words

[wolfemi1]

How, exactly, is Carter to blame for either of those? The gas lines were due to OPEC's manipulation of the market, and the hostages were out of his control. He sent special forces in, but they failed to accomplish their objective. Unless he was there on the ground with them, I fail to see how the blame for that can be laid on him.

Re:Two words

[MightyYar]

Now...honestly, what do you think is really going to change?

1. For the first time in 8 years, we have a president who can speak publicly. McCain would have done a fine job, too - but Barack is really a terrific speaker.
2. We've managed to go from segregation to president in about 40 years. More white people voted for Obama than Kerry. That is monumental. The best part is that since Obama is both black and white, he really can see and convey both perspectives of America. We're all going to talk about race a lot more than we used to, and that's a good thing.
3. We don't have to hear nonsense about the government banning stem cell research, blatantly muzzling dissenting scientists, and other such shenanigans that should have any self-respecting geek up in arms.
4. We'll gain some respect back from our allies. This is more than just a point of pride... we're going to need their help. Our army is exhausted and we all need to work together on the financial situation.
5. While I think all of the "Yes, we can," stuff is corny as hell, he does seem to be a pretty good leader. And a leader is what people are looking for right now. People were willing to put up with partisan hacks and leave Washington to fester when times were good, but now people want Washington to be a help and not a hindrance. The first step is to get them to stop acting like spoiled 2-year-olds. Barack is one of those politicians that does not sound like a spoiled 2-year-old.

Personally, I think John McCain could have done a pretty good job on that list as well, but the way his campaign was run in the last 2 or 3 months worried me greatly.

It didn't really hit me that things had changed until I saw the first family up there after the victory speech, and damn if it wasn't a black family. Cue "white house" jokes. :)

Re:Two words

[querist]

Your reference to the "Chinese curse" (there's some debate on the real origins of it) "May you live in interesting times." is actually more "interesting" than you may think.

The phrase in Chinese that is most commonly translated as "interesting" is made of two words (three characters): you3 yi4 si. I won't try to imbed Chinese characters here.

you3 means "to have", as in "I have a car".
yi4 si means "significance" or "meaning", for example, it is used to ask what a word means.

So, a slightly more literal translation would be "May you live in significant times."

To me, that's more frightening than "interesting times".

Re:Anti-White Racism in the Afro Community

[Schadrach]

Not voting Obama does not necessarily indicate racism. Where I work, I could have told you at least 5 of my coworkers were going to vote Republican before the primaries started, regardless if "the black guy", "the white guy", or "the manly chick" had won the Democrats primary.

I *did* however vote Obama (but my views are a lot more left-leaning than about half the people I wokr with [the Democratic party's tendency to push gun control makes them not well received by this group]).

Do you consider any black person who didn't vote for McCain to be racist, or any man that didn't vote for McCain to be sexist (due to Palin)?

Re:Two words

[dintech]

I think you over-estimate the naivity of the banks and mortgage salesmen in relation to the credit crisis. It was nothing but greedy profiteering and has very little to do with encouragement from any recent adminsistration.

Here are some of the key points to remember:

1) Mortgage salesmen got a commision for each mortgage sold, regardless of whether it was stable or would be paid to completion.

2) Alarm bells should have been ringing down at the local bank branch but they weren't. Why? Because they were selling the loans (and inherent risk) on to larger invesment banks who repacked them.

3) The investment banks repackaged these loans together with the flawed reasoning that only a certain percentage would default based on projected market conditions. Those conditions turned out to be wrong.

4) The producers and packagers of asset backed swaps were further laying off and reselling the risk to hedge funds and banks that didn't necessarily have the capital behind them to pay up in the event of a default. It's illegal for insurance companies to take on obligations that they can't pay for but not for banks to jiggle risk around like this. This is criminal negligence in my view and people should have been in court by now.

5) No one really knows who is exposed to what risk because these leveraged products have been resold and unwound between multiple counterparties. The banks don't know how badly affected their peers are so they've stopped lending to others in case they disappear (like Lehman) or they need the cash themselves for their own write-downs which they don't really know the scale of for the reasons mentioned. This is the real credit crisis, not the mortgages themselves. That was just the catalyst.

Put it this way, you won't find anyone in the finance industry saying that they sold all those dodgy mortgages "because the government made us do it". It was greed, pure and simple.

DISCLAIMER: I worked in credit derivitives many years ago.

Re:Two words

[tylerni7]

This nation wasn't founded on partisanship at all. Everyone knows that out founding fathers didn't initially plan a partisan system, but partisanship is a result of how our government and our psychology works.
I think it would be much better to have a non-partisan system, where there aren't only two opinions to choose from. Wouldn't it make much more sense if one could select from, say, 10 candidates with different ideas on things, rather than choosing either Democrat or Republican?

If we have a more limited number of options, the race becomes much more about choosing "the lesser of two evils" than choosing the best person possible to become the president.

Re:Two words

[Curunir_wolf]

That argument doesn't work anymore. Just because Fox News is a right wing tabloid doesn't mean they all have a bias. If the truth doesn't support your reality and the other news organizations won't bend their coverage to support your viewpoint, that doesn't make them biased.

And yet... they ARE.

Re:Two words

[clary]

Got a source on this? I just went to http://www.hrblock.com/taxes/tax_calculators/index.html and plugged in the poverty level for both a single taxpayer and married filing jointly with 2 kids, and in both cases the result was a refund via earned income tax credit.

Re:Two words

[Free the Cowards]

You're missing two points:

1. There's no "technically" anything when it comes to race. Race is a fiction with no scientific basis. You can't take a cell sample from somebody and pop it in an analyzer and come back and say "this person is 93% black and 7% white".
2. The vast majority of "black" people in the US are actually interracial to one degree or another. There has been a great deal of mixing in the centuries since they've been here. Obama is not even slightly special in this regard.

Re:Two words

[Sj0]

As an outside observer, I've believed from the beginning that simply having Barack Obama in the presidency would be good for America.

The problems with the markets right now stem in part from a lack of confidence in the US internationally.

Frankly, we think you're a bunch of ignorant, violent dicks who managed to actually try to argue that torture is a good thing.

By having someone who isn't saying these things as the ignorant violent dicks in power, I could see international investments slowly building back up, resulting in a more prosperous planet as a whole.

(Seriously. Did you guys really think that arguing about whether torture was really bad would end up well for you?)

Re:Two words

[jedidiah]

Fox news is the least serious of any of the major national news
outlets or publications. They are the sort of people that make
you wish old man Buckley was still around so that he could show
them how it should be done.

They have a tabloid style. They are more sensationalist and
well for the lack of a better way of putting it... they
elevate unqualified kook nobodies to the role of pundit.

A genuine party rag from an earlier era was a more respectable news source.

Re:Two words

[MightyYar]

To most black folks, he's black. His daddy was black. His wife is black. His kids are black. He's a Democrat. He attends a black church.

You are right that there is a big difference between being black or white and being mixed-race. A mixed-race guy like Obama truly understands the perspective of a black person and of a white person. He's heard it all from both sides and has had his whole life to think about these things. This is why he can talk to white people and address their concerns and also talk to black people and address their concerns.

A typical black person (or white person) will most likely not have this insight, and I hope that blacks don't get too attached to hopes that Obama will act strictly as a black advocate. This will lead to profound disappointment.

While he is the first black president, he's also the 44th white president.

Re:United States Socialist Republic

[LordKronos]

And by the same token, don't the rich people make their wealth based on the infrastructure of our country? Don't they need the roads, rails, or airlines to transport their good that they sell to make themselves rich? Don't they use our communications infrastructure to make their business deals? Don't they use our patent system to file their patents, and then our court systems when their competitors violate said patents? Don't they use our law enforcement and military to ensure the security of their possessions from people (both domestic and international) who would be more than happy to take it (or destory it) if it were unprotected?

Re:Two words

[YttriumOxide]

You essentially had the choice (in my eyes) between: "Someone who says he'll do bad things, and might", and "Someone who says he'll do good things, but might not". Not the best of choices, but it's clear which one is the better of the two. I'm glad the right choice was made for once.

Re:Two words

[Daimaou]

He or she is saying that people who don't succeed will find any loophole that enables them to blame their inability to succeed on others. He or she is absolutely correct.

Re:Two words

[illumin8]

It may also surprise you that, in retrospect, experience is not correlated to being a good president, and in fact some of the the most inexperienced presidents have been some of the most successful.

Speaking of experience: I'll take a constitutional law professor over a career politician any day when it comes to protecting my rights. Unlike Bush, Obama knows the constitution is more than a "piece of paper" and when he swears to protect and uphold it, I believe his words have credibility and meaning.

Re:Two words

[jedidiah]

...yes, it was all of that lending to "the wrong people".

It had nothing to do with the fact that these days banks
don't care about "bad loans" because they've gotten into
the habit of reselling them and quickly become "someone
else's problem".

It had nothing to do with predatory ARMs that anyone with
a solid grounding in match could see were a ticking timebomb.

It had nothing to do with making loans to people without
verifying any means to pay.

It had nothing to do with ignoring people's debt to income ratio.

It had nothing to do with allowing people to get a mortgage
without any sort of down payment and having "no skin in the game".

The Magic Word

[BearRanger]

"Sacrifice". Obama said it in his victory speech, and I believe McCain also said it in his concession speech. The problems of this country are so massive they can't be solved without each of us giving something to the cause. I'm not talking taxes, although I'm sure that will figure into it. If Obama is going to be successful--and by extension, make the country successful--we're all going to have to embrace the notion of personal sacrifice and service to the country. Think about that before you reflexively complain about what's bound to be unpleasant for many of us. In the words of John McCain: "It's time to put the country first."

Prepare yourselves for four years of austerity. We can't continue as a country where the only people who actively sacrifice for it are the members of the military and their families.

Re:Two words

[DrgnDancer]

(Seriously, did you really think most of us actually bought that shit?)

The guy never had better than a 50-50 approval rating and by the time the the torture stuff really hit the fan it was a lot lower. Had the 2004 election happened in 2006 Kerry would have won in a landslide, but sadly in 2004 W. still had enough people fooled to squeak by. Seriously, Americans are not a monolithic group think over here. We have different opinions on all kind of issues. I would think, given your 6 digit UID, that you've been reading /. long enough to get an idea for how "Americans" are no more in agreement on any one issue than any other large group on the face of the Earth.

Re:Two words

[JoeZeppy]

Most people who think Fox News is an arm of the GOP, are comfortable getting their news from multiple sources, CNN, BBC, CBS, NBC, etcetera, EXCEPT for Fox News.

while most people who think Fox News is Fair and Balanced(tm) are of the opinion that all other mainstream media are "in the tank" for whomever they are hating that week, and are NOT to be trusted. this magnifies the echo chamber effect, since they are unable or unwilling to consider opposing viewpoints.

What's worse, is they incorrectly assume that everyone else must think like they do, and all other news outlets are as shrill and partisan as Fox is, because they have nothing to compare to.

Re:Two words

[tmosley]

I would tend to agree with most of your statement, but I would say that the problem with the economy (not just the markets) is our hideously bloated credit-card culture, which was promoted so much by Bush and Co (remember him telling us to go out and spend so the "terrorists don't win"?).

Both the government and individuals are up to their ears in debt, and the only way we can even continue to pay the interest is to borrow more. The government has really good credit, but that doesn't mean spit when there isn't enough money to pay the bills, and the only way out is to print more money (or default). One way leads to hyperinflation, Weimar style, and the other leads to nasty, mutually destructive trade wars, and a flight from dollars (which also causes hyperinflation as all the trillions of dollars sitting in government reserves flood the market, bidding up prices on EVERYTHING priced in dollars).

'Cause one party has most of the racists?

[Grendel Drago]

Perhaps black folks would vote Republican if the Republican party exorcised its racism. Like it or not, they're the party of white dudes scared as hell that they might not be better than some black dude. While that does well for the scared white dude vote, it doesn't do well for the black vote.

You might consider that black people tend to be surprisingly socially conservative. They'd probably lean Republican, if it weren't for the racism.

You might also consider that Latinos were a solidly Republican constituency in 2004, but were solidly Democratic in 2008, despite being generally socially conservative. (Consider the D/R split in California compared to the split over Prop 8.) You can thank Tom Tancredo, Michelle Malkin and their ilk for that.

Re:Two words

[retchdog]

in re: 1., yes you can: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogical_DNA_test#Biogeographical_ancestry. Of course, whether race means something apart from where you or your ancestors happened to come from, that is still open (*). But make no mistake, there absolutely is a technical concept of "biogeographical ancestry" which is very analogous to what is called race, and incorporating it into a model can increase the power and accuracy of clinical trials and disease screens. I would call this scientific.

*: Of course, to see as much between-group genetic variation as there is, and straight-facedly claim a priori that race has no statistical effect on anything, is just a bit silly. It's just one of those things you have to entertain for society's benefit.

Re:Two words

[h4rm0ny]

understands the perspective of a black person

Entire racial groups have a perspective now? When I lived in the USA, I met a Morrocan student who told me the most annoying thing in the USA were all the people who told him that they were "African." They all had more in common with their white countrymen than they did with him. There's no supportable reason a black person can't see things from a white person's perspective and vice versa. But the black person can't see things from white people's perspective and a white person can't see things from black people's perspective, because there is no such united view. There isn't even enough cultural unity to talk in generalities. If you were white, would it make sense for someone to ask you what white people thought of a particular topic. Outside of the most contrived examples, it would not.

What we should be discussing here is Obama's policies and intentions. Not pages and pages of discussion about his ethnicity. The fact that we are not is the clearest sign of a problem to me, although I think it is one that is being worked out.

Re:Two words

[Sj0]

The fact that you even had that conversation is insane. The fact that until now, the majority of the electorate was on the side of those people is even more insane.

Re:Two words

[Lemmy Caution]

He's not white. He's not really "half-white." He's black. He's also half of African descent and half of European descent.

Being black is like being red-haired or left-handed. It's a constellation of physical characteristics that have been lumped into the idea of a "race" by a few hundred years of domination. The same is true of being white. These races are historical inventions which used certain physical features for their rationale. Now these inventions have a certain cultural reality to them, which is why we talk about "African Americans," as a shorthand for describing the communities of people whose ancestors were brought into the US by slavery and who share a cluster of cultural experiences. Obama, of course, was not born into that community - he was raised by a white grandmother, his father came from Kenya. etc. - but by virtue of being black, he was associated with that community.

Yes, it's complicated. But you can work it out. It is important to not think of being white as the same as being Irish, and more like being red-haired.

Re:Two words

[hey!]

I don't believe Obama will fix anything "magically", because I don't believe in magic. However, there is reason for everybody here to hope, even Republicans.

Democracy does not consistently select good leaders. No system can do that, which is why democracy is important: democracy works by making throwing out bad leaders easier. You don't have to take to the streets with Molotov cocktails or worry about your relatives disappearing into some secret police dungeon to get regime change.

Competition improves the breed, and so a spot of extinction pressure is a hopeful thing. It means the system is still working on some level.

It's just like the free market. The market doesn't mean you are consistently satisfied with your purchases. No economic system could do that. It means that it is easy to switch vendors, which keeps the vendors working hard to satisfy you and redress your grievances.

Our system is designed to prevent overnight changes. 2008 is the continuation of a process that started in 2006, of throwing out the Republican party. Republicans should be glad in the long term of this, just as Democrats should be glad that they can lose most of their gains in the next election. Just as competition improves the breed, complacency ruins it. The Democrats, for now, are aware the country has just thrown out the old regime, and that come January there will be no more excuses. As long as they are mindful of this, they will at least try to do better.

Republicans will of course be looking at the mistakes that the Democrats will make. If they're smart, they'll look at the mistakes they themselves made. There are those in the party who say the answer is to become more like the party that got thrown out in 2006. I think the Republicans have a good shot of convincing the American people the Democrats have overreached if they deemphasize the ultra socially conservative southern wing and turn to the fiscally conservative, socially moderate and libertarian leaning Republicans of the West and Northeast.

I hope they do, I hope they put together and honest, credible attack on the Democrats by 2012. And I'm a Democrat. No party that thinks itself unassailable, as the Republicans did in 2005, can be trusted.

Re:Two words

[Cornflake917]

No thanks. I'll give a shit what color he is mainly because it's a pretty damn good gauge of how far America has come along in terms of overcoming some nasty racism. That doesn't mean I will use the color of his skin to judge his abilities as his president, human being, etc. You act like the rhetoric spewing is coming from one side. I bet you I can find the same amount of people who can't really get past the words "socialist" and "Muslim" when talking about Obama's policies.

Re:Two words

[Anonymous Coward]

The victim mentality has been promulgated too long and
is too deeply ingrained in some people's minds of all
colors in this country.

We have had black senators, black generals, black CEOs,
and 4 black governors.

Most of the big money sports stars are minorities now as well.

Minorities have a more difficult time of getting success
in these endeavors, but it is doable.

Keep in mind, I am American Indian.

A black president will not cure the victim crutch ppl of their
self debilitation it will have to be by their own determination.

Re:Two words

[Kent Recal]

There's no "technically" anything when it comes to race. Race is a fiction with no scientific basis. You can't take a cell sample from somebody and pop it in an analyzer and come back and say "this person is 93% black and 7% white".

To paraphrase obama: Yes, you can. The different skin-colors stem from genetic differences and those can be detected. I'm not saying that distinguishing between skin-colors or "races" makes any sense - but technically it's possible to determine someone's skin-color from a DNA-sample, with increasing accuracy.

Re:More than Two words

[Millennium]

Most of what SNL did was just quote her straight-up, which is the truly scary part: SNL didn't even need to write most of its own jokes. Palin is just that much of a twit, and the worst part is that she knew just enough to twist this to her advantage in the debates. Someone capable of this is not someone who belongs within 5000 miles of the most powerful office in the US (and, arguably, the world).

Palin is not the first person whose greatest attack ads were simply her own words played back at her. Sadly, she will probably not be the last either. But when they do spring up, there is good reason to fear them.

It's a shame about McCain. It really is. He's a strong statesman, a good politician, and he probably would have been at least as good for the country (if in different ways) than Obama. But Palin had to be stopped, and fortunately, she was. You might even say that she won the election; she just won it for the opposing side.

Re:Two words

[MightyYar]

He IS half-white. I have a daughter who is mixed, and there is a difference between a black person (my wife), a white person (me), and a mixed person (my daughter). A white or black person can (and usually does) self-segregate in terms of friends and family. Sure, you may have co-workers and such that are a different race, but you rarely have to get into deep, meaningful discussions with them that lead to understanding one another on a fundamental level.

A mixed kid, on the other hand, has no opportunity to self-segregate. They are stuck with their mixed family at the very least. This is a very different way to grow up. In Obama's case, he was largely treated as a black guy by society in general and yet raised by white people. He truly has a perspective that is unique from a typical "black" person.

That said, I am fully aware that Obama (and for that matter, my daughter) is considered "black" by society at large. The first paragraph of my original post stated this as a rebuff to the guy above me who claimed that blacks will say that he's mixed. But I had to point out that an interracial guy is not going to have a purely "black" perspective - if such a thing still exists.

Re:Two words

[ByOhTek]

And your use of "latte belt" shows you have no clue of the large portion of the countries population in urban areas.

Both groups have very strong opinions and ideas. Both groups have their histories and values. And both groups have a vast majority of people who CANNOT see the world from the point of view of the other side, or even grant that point of view validity, which it does have. I've been around both sides, and they aren't nearly as different as they'd like to think, it's typical 'us against them' that people do to make themselves feel more unified as a group.

Palin would have increased that schism and animosity. Obama won't help, but he won't do as much to hurt it either. McCain probably would have been the best middle ground in that respect, of the for P/VP options.

Re:Two words

[TheGeneration]

I spent the last 5 days in Sun Valley, Nevada talking to people of all colors, knocking on their doors and asking them to vote. The feeling on the ground in this battleground state was HOPE. Real HOPE that we can get past the petty divisions that have kept this nation from progressing past Reagan.

All of us need to forgive the Republicans and invite them to JOIN us in creating the future America in which every American will have a stronger stake in our economy, socialized medicine, and equality for everybody. Because these things benefit the Republicans as much as they benefit us. It isn't us against them, it's us AND them. That has ALWAYS been the real message of the Obama campaign.

Today conservatives will try to shove the wedge between us again. We must tell their followers that their differing opinions have value while showing them our own values.

The era of gotcha politics has finally come to an end. If we want to move forward all of us have to forgive the Republican supporters. They still have a place in this country and we want them at our side. They can join us, or they can rally against us, but we're going to keep moving forward as a nation. Like I said, the things we want benefit them as well. We just have to show them how.

Dear Rest of the World,

[gatkinso]

See? We aren't ALL cross burning rednecks!

However if you think we are going to start using less oil, stop polluting, pay off our credit cards, learn French, and stop bombing smaller nations, think again.

Oh yeah, we could use about $700,000,000,000 right about now.... I won't bother to convert that figure to yen or euro.

Re:Two words

[CorporateSuit]

You can't take a cell sample from somebody and pop it in an analyzer and come back and say "this person is 93% black and 7% white".

Not in those certain terms, no, but close.

Re:Anti-White Racism in the Afro Community

[MrMarket]

Guess what? Whites are no longer a majority in this country. (IE: Less than 50% of the population).

Whites make up 74% of the US population according to the Census Bureau .

Half Arab????

[hellfire]

There is no question that the election of a half-Arab, half-Black child of a broken home to the Presidency of the United States *says* something to the world and to history about us as a country, as an ideal, that can never, ever, be taken away.

I think idiotic statements like are what defined what the rest of the world thought of the US before this election, don't keep it up. You almost made a good point until you detracted from your entire statement with this nonsense.

Obama's mother is from Wichita, Kansas, and is quite caucasian. His biological father is from Kenya, and was ethnically called a Luo, a subsaharan African ethnic group. His adopted father, while in fact a muslim, was ethnically indonesian. Not all muslims are arabs.

Arab is an ethnic term, and there is no evidence that Obama is in any way Arab (just like there's no evidence he's muslim). I can't fathom why you said this, other than the fact that you might be thinking arab=muslim. If that was the case, then that's just plain idiotic, and is yet another reason why the world hates us, because if we can't get that right, we can't get foreign policy right.

Re:Two words

[Lijemo]

No, he's not.

Re:Two words

[ppanon]

Last night, after it had been announced that Barack was President-Elect, Jesse Jackson was bawling his eyes out. I don't think it was because Jackson was thinking "That should have been me!", I think it was because Jackson was thinking "I used to think I would never live to see a day with a black president".

There were a lot of people in the US who still refused to vote for a black man. But now that it's happened and that Obama, who is a lot more mainstream than the Republicans painted him out to be, will show that most of those fears were as much utter rubbish as the Iraqi WMD, those kinds of attacks will be a lot harder to make stick on the next go round. When you repeatedly lie and are shown to have lied, your credibility takes a dive, even with the notoriously easily-distracted US electorate.

Obama would never have made it if Bush/Cheney incompetency and malevolence hadn't been so rampant that it so badly damaged the Republican brand. If you believe in an interventionist god, there were a lot of unusual circumstances (like the credit crisis and stock market crash) that were very timely in helping put him over the top. If fundamentalist Christians actually believe what they claim, they should be doing some heavy soul-searching today about whether the unlikelihood of the timing of those events isn't miraculous.

Not that I believe in some kind of supernatural intervention; the deregulation & supply side economics house of cards was bound to tumble down at some point in time. But I can't hold any respect for people who can't even stay consistent in the fantasies they expound to everyone else.

Re:More than Two words

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

so whatever he does to worsen the depression

Sounds like you've made your mind up already!

Racism? We just pass the hate along elsewhere

[IdahoEv]

No thanks. I'll give a shit what color he is mainly because it's a pretty damn good gauge of how far America has come along in terms of overcoming some nasty racism.

We have come a long way in reducing racism. We've passed the hate to the next down the line.

Here's a vastly oversimplified view of the line:

1830: Americans hate and persecute the Irish immigrants.

1890: Americans (now including the Irish) persecute the Polish and other Eastern European immigrants.

All along: American whites (including Irish and Polish) persecute blacks.

20th century: American whites (and many blacks!) fear and persecute latino immigrants.

Yesterday, on the day the USA first elects a black president, three states passed constitutional amendments making gays second-class citizens with fewer rights. In California, nearly 70% of blacks and hispanics voted for Proposition 8.

Yes, we just pass the fear and hate on down the line. Human mass psychology seems incapable of producing happiness without having an "outsider" group to loathe and persecute.

Honestly, I'm fucking thrilled about Obama, but I'm starting to see the "moving past racism" thing as just another turn of the hate wheel.

Right now the arrow is pointing at Gays and Muslims and atheists. I wonder who will be the target(s) in 2030?

Re:Racism? We just pass the hate along elsewhere

[superdave80]

three states passed constitutional amendments making gays second-class citizens with fewer rights.

Incorrect. Gays have the exact same marriage rights as everyone else. They can still marry someone of the opposite sex. Gays wanted a new right, i.e., marrying someone of the same sex. Now, I have no problem with gay marriage, but this argument that I've heard non-stop for months on TV is asinine.

And before someone tries to respond with a 'But they can't marry the person they want!', just realize that everyone has the exact same restrictions. Since I can't marry a 2nd wife, does that mean that polygamist are the new '2nd class citizen'?

Angry responses in 3... 2... 1...

You know...

[dr00g911]

...after reading through all three thousand plus posts on this topic, admittedly with a filter of +2, I feel compelled to come in and toss away all my mod points to say "thanks" to the /.'ers here and abroad for having actual, real, intelligent discourse about this. The signal to noise ratio was one of the best I've seen on a thread here in years.

I'd been firmly in the Obama camp since he came out against lobbyists in an incredibly direct zero-tolerance fashion (for Washington, at least). None in my ground crew, none in my cabinet, not a dime from them. So, that made the sale for me personally very early in the primary season. Voting for someone who's been a civil rights lawyer, and is incredibly well-spoken... well, that's just a bonus. How cool would it be to have a quotable president in your lifetime? All those speeches you memorize in school? What if you were there for a speech your kids memorize?

I'm not at all proud of what my government, and by association, my country has turned into in the last decade. And as cheesy as it might sound to some people, I really do think we need constructive, positive dialog to move forward. Race, international relations, financial markets... everything. We've gotten in the habit of painting the world in stark shades of idealogical black and white -- on both sides.

Growing up in the US, we're taught to believe in a very idealized, edited version of American history, and America as a symbol -- it's the history that we really wished could be. Down to the specifics of the Lincoln presidency and on, very complex issues are taught to us in a very binary, black and white fashion that loses nuance completely. But it's part of who we are. And for the most part, it's who we want to be. It might be borderline fiction, but it's a noble aspiration.

Something struck me during one of the debates. Obama said "We need to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable." -- which sounds juvenile on the surface, but is a consummate truth at its core and sums up a major issue with the "you're either with me or against me" macho cowboy politic crap we've had to endure.

We've been stuck in gridlock, incapable of positive change for so long that I think we've forgotten how to affect it.

I must say that if the John McCain who made the incredibly eloquent, heartfelt concession speech last night had been the same man who had been campaigning, I think things would have been a lot closer. Well, and ditched his trainwreck running mate, but I didn't log in to burn the neocons in effigy.

If Obama can achieve even a fraction of what he's set about, it'll be positive change for this country and world in my very honest opinion. It's arrogant as an American to believe that my vote affects the entire world, but looking over the last eight years in particular, it's incredibly naïve to believe it doesn't. We're a conflicted people.

McCain may very well have been capable of leading us out of this incredibly dark, deep hole that we're in, but the Republican party as a whole (down to my state and local levels -- I'm in North Florida) has lost any shred of credibility in regard to the term "conservative" where it applies to fiscal and legislative issues, and has taken the moral "conservative" tack -- ie, let's roll back the clock and stand in the way of social progress to regard to people who aren't just like us. You want polarization? Base your politics about making people scared of folks who aren't just like you, and spend your time telling other adults how to live their lives.

The world isn't like that, the country isn't like that... shit, my block isn't like that. So how did we get in this place?

The core of my personal moral compass is that there's nothing on this planet more offensive than a closed mind.

The more we talk, the more we begin to understand each other. And that's a start, isn't it?

Lots of posts to read through

[reboot246]

I'm just reading through all these posts to find out who my friends are, and who my enemies may be. :)

Thank you, Americans

[faragon]

Hard times are coming for the world, but working hard, with joy and passion, we can build a great world to live in.

Kudos, american people, and thank you.