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Barack Obama Wins US Presidency
Last night, around 11pm, all the major networks announced that Senator Barack Obama had won the election. Soon after, Senator McCain conceded. There were no crazy partisan court hearings, just a simple election. This is your chance to talk about it and what it means for the future of our nation.
Thank God.
Summation 2
It means the Democrats finally have a chance to screw everything up. By my count there are 56 D to 40 R in the Senate and 251 D to 173 R in the House. While there's still a few undecided yet, that's Democratic control of the Legislative and Executive Branches. Normally I like to see these things divided between the two parties so nobody gets too far away from lagom.
My work here is dung.
A fellow bar patron put it best:
"BLUE TEAM WINS"
Rev. Martin Luther King's "I have a dream".
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
I think Washington D.C. will become a radioactive wasteland and the survivors will spend their waking hours hunting mutant ants in collapsed subways.
Oh, wait. My copy of Fallout 3 arrived yesterday and that's all I can think about.
Thoroughly, and decisively, re-arranged.
I've always wondered what it would feel like to life in a welfare state. Hard work is penalized, and laziness will be rewarded. I for one welcome our socialist overlord. Spread the wealth baby!
More government! More Welfare! Punish Success!
Yeeeeaaaahhhhh!
I'm happy for you Americans. Cheers,
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http://i33.tinypic.com/zx6yi8.jpg
Oh, there was an election?
Just watched Obama's victory speech on the BBC, he namechecked Lincoln and derided Wall Street. If this is anything other than empty rhetoric he's not going to last a year. To paraphrase Ian Hislop on last weeks HIGNFY (popular UK satire quiz), "They're expecting a landslide and if that doesn't get him, the CIA will have to find some other way".
I firmly believe that Barack Obama is going to bring the change we need to alter the way the world see us. We need to earn back a little of our reputation that the eight previous years have lost us. We need to talk, discuss, and use diplomacy instead of force. I'm very glad that Obama won. I sincerely hope that he can keep all his promises he made to the American people, and with control of the house and senate, it looks likely that he won't have any trouble passing bills.
--"Forget the nectar of the Gods, just give me some Mountain Dew."
This Scot, for one, welcomes our Democraticly elected African-American overlord :D
Laters Sol "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
The party of big government soundly defeated the other party of big government.
Too bad for those of us who think the government is getting dangerously big.
15 million people are employed by, and have a vested interest in an the size and power of, the federal government, let alone state and local.
Save the good booze for January 20th, until then, who knows, maybe the GOP has a larger then expected "October surprise" that's running a little late.
/* FUCK - The F-word is here so that you can grep for it */
I can't tell if this is a joke or not, but people all over the world are laughing at the notion of Obama being a socialist. As in the 90s, at least we can rejoice over the lesser of two evils winning.
Obama promises not to raise taxes, not to raise the deficit, but he will promise to RAISE THE ROOF!! HOLLA
Well done, America. You've taken your first step toward re-establishing your international credibility by voting out the Republicans, who have played a large part in engineering the current state of international affairs. We recognize that your country is in a pretty deep hole left by the last administration, but we trust you'll do your best.
You're most welcome.
"It doesn't cost enough, and it makes too much sense."
Under Bush we all got "Stimulus checks" redistribution of wealth, we "nationalized banks", we "nationalized insurance companies", we "nationalized brokerage houses", and we gave trillions in welfare to Iraq...
And now you're worried about socialism? Welcome to last year.
Thanks to eating disorders most chicks are reasonably good looking these days.
Nak, you should be welcoming your new "hey-buddy-just-the-same-as-you-lord", I thought that was his stand, anyway I don't see any death-laser-eyeballs or fists of fury that Palin was packing.
If he's the Walrus then can I be a penguin please?
I wonder if an angry republican supporter will attempt to kill Obama.
An off the rails presidency and party received a swift rebuke to restore the core values enshrined in the constitution.
Meanwhile, the China Credit Card bill needs payment and the global economy is entering a bad recession.
The political shift in the country is probably a game changer for the Democratic party for the next two decades.
I'm sure I'll be modded out, but as an Australian... can I just say, THANK YOU America for making the right decision.
Your country has a huge influence on us and I am so glad you are taking a positive step forward into what I hope will be a new era for us all.
That the Democrats do not wish for.
True, they didn't quite get to the 60 seat filibuster proof majority in the Senate, but it shouldn't be any problem swaying a few Republicans with Bridges To Nowhere and seats on the really cool committees.
Watching on CNN the sea of people in Chicago cheering for President Elect Obama and his victory speech convinced me that this was one of those unique moments, the kind that people decades from now will remember and ask each other "Do you remember where you were when Obama was elected?" Truly a great moment.
Hope because the idiots that have been running the country for nearly a decade are gone, fear that the new bunch of idiots aren't any better.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
This was easily the best election I ever participated in. Mostly because of Ron Paul. He opened my eyes to real liberty and true freedoms, and I've been a changed person man ever since. I'm not going to take crap from the two parties sitting down anymore, and I have real hope for this country, that someday we all might really be free from the federal government. I was also exposed to Ayn Rand and read her fiction, and really enjoyed it.
I wrote Ron Paul in, and I was beyond happy the rest of the day. It honestly felt awesome to vote for someone that I honestly believe in, an opportunity I've never taken before.
Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
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Finally we can tax ourselves into prosperity!
Who wants to take bets on:
Us not withdrawing from Iraq?
Whether most slashdotters with decent IT careers end up paying more taxes?
Don't take this wrong, McCain sucks too. I just wish people would stop drinking from either coolaid.
all of the campaign ads so I can slowly wean myself off instead of going cold turkey.
the first black US president.. The rest of the world is ok with coloured people in office for centuries now.. A dutch Poet / commedian said this morning: Africa congratualtes America with their first black president.. The have had many black presidents.. now all they need is food.. But ot react to what it will mean for the nation.. I say "what nation" My country is not really affected. McCains and Obama's foreign policy will not be very different from each other.. I hope Obama understands that with great power comes great responsibillity.. And as the president of the most infoluencial country in the world he should know that his responsibility does not end at the border OR at the Oil wells...
Nicely put!
As far as the new president is concerned: the guy has a lot of shit to clean up now, and we don't even know what's still coming. He will have to take a lot of unpopular measures, and I really wonder if he can keep a high popularity for long.
molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
This argument that "The terrorists will attack because Obama is inexperienced" never fails to remind me of the Robot Chicken episode where the arab terrorists attack an elementary school because a little boy said "Fart" during the pledge to the flag. "He said FART! They are weak! We must attack!"
Sounds great, I think. Finally, no more lunatic right wing ideology running the country.
No, I know many of use who belive in God who voted Obama.
And if people were truely sick of being treated like shit, there would be 3rd party candidates in the house and senate, enough of them were up for election!
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
You can sit on the sidelines, complaining your way to complete misery. Or you can get on board with Obama and his supporters, and do what needs to be done to get this nation back on track.
Seriously, dude, Obama is not a socialist, and Bush put an end to more liberties than Obama would ever have any inclination to end. Your views are seriously out of line with reality. On second thought, maybe it is best if you stay on the sidelines.
I gotta wear shades.
I was writing joystick handling code on a Ubuntu install running under VMware. Truly, a momentous occasion.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Lets just hope everyone can Unite
...and stop bitching and whining about everything!
Obama's win was widely predicted, although most people underestimated his support (right now, it looks like he will take 364 electoral votes).
The biggest surprise of the night is in Alaska, where against all odds, they elected a convicted criminal to the US senate.
I came here for a good argument
How old are you?
It's a serious question, I'm not trolling, and I'm not gonna mock you for it - just curious.
What's his name again? Sadam Hussain Obama Bin Laden or something. Now if that ain't a Muslim name I don't know what is. America is meant to be a Christian country. It says so right there in the First Amendment, and it was that way back when we were founded by Jey-sus in 0AD. And now he's goin' to make an Oath on the Koran, change us all into Muslims and move the US to the middle east and we'll all have to join Al Quaeda and blow ourselves up. I don't know what I'm gonna do.
They are laughing at the fact the republicans THOUGHT he was. There was nothing socialist he was proposing that we are not already doing, and nearly half our friends we terms a "democracy" are truthfully socialist democracies. The socialist claim was truly one of the STUPIDEST moves the neocons could have pulled, especially when their darling base polarizing vise prez nominee actually PRACTICED socialism by redirecting oil drilling profits to state residence.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
Me... I had "O Fortuna" playing in my head.
I think I'm actually proud of you, America. Not just for electing Obama over McCain; but for producing *two* sensible candidates and then choosing the one who makes history. I'm glad I stayed up to watch it live.
This is not flamebait.
There is a war going on for your mind.
An Obama presidency means we are going to be seeing Linux everywhere. Cars with onboard navigation systems, embedded in devices ranging from ATM machines to cell phones, operating behaind the scenes at supermarket checkout counters, claw machines at the mall, ticket booths for parking garages, desktop machines being sold at Best Buy, on PDAs for squirrels, traffic light cameras, the list is endless.
I mean, come on, Microsoft must have bought off everyone in the GOP to still be around after Vista.
M
Not so much
Did Puerto Rico vote? American Samoa? Marshall islanders? You crazy cats have taxation without representation, have colonies without a vote. I recall that sort of nonsense stirred a revolution once before...
Kent Brockman: I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply doesn't work.
Summation 2
A man is *not* entitled to the sweat of his brow.
(I need to lay off the Bioshock) ;)
"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis de Tocqueville, 1835, Democracy in America, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_America
run for your liiiiiiives!
Nothing worth seeing here folks!
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
A person who lived through the collapse of the soviet union once pointed out that in America, the only relevant political parties are the Capitalist party and the Capitalist party. Democrats and Republicans disagree on a handful of very minor issues, despite all the media trumpeting about one being "left" and one being "right." The Democrats will still pass legislation that favours big businesses, just a different group of businesses. No president since the 1950s has served an entire term without engaging America in some foreign conflict. The use of signals intelligence operations to spy on foreign businesses and pass along their trade secrets to US businesses has occurred during both the Clinton and Bush administrations, and during both Democrat and Republican control of Congress.
If America wanted serious change, change that was not just superficial, then one of the third party candidates would have one.
At the very least, it is a good thing that the neoconservative movement appears to have weakened a bit in this election. Do not confuse neoconservative and Republican -- while most neocons are Republicans, most Republicans are not neoconservative and many Republicans found the neoconservatives to be embarrassing.
Palm trees and 8
Yeah, you're absolutely right. It's going to take a lot of hard work to undo the backward progress and bad decisions that the Bush gov't lied and cheated the American people into. But it's a serious job for grown-ups who are not afraid let reason and long-term strategy prevail, instead of fighting fire with fire 'til the house is burnt down. Luckily, there will soon be a responsible adult in the White House.
Oh, I can't help quoting you because everything that you said rings true
I'm hopeful that he's up to the challenge. I didn't support him but this country really needs for him to succeed. I know a lot of people are resentful but the fact is that for the next 4 years he's going to be the man in charge. If he fails to properly handle the problems we have now the country will suffer gravely for it. We need to pray for God to give him wisdom and guidance.
Hopfully Binden will stick with his word and under Obama they will switch to a new system something not seen under Bush and which Obama/Binden followers will not understand which has to be conservatism.
But I gotta' wonder if George W. Bu$h ever dreamed he'd be THIS much of a "uniter."
"Democracy." It's just a slogan.
I sort of felt this thing might happen when Palin was selected. She was a women trying to reach a very conservative male base that has been steeped in two years of bashing Hilary Clinton and Pelosi. She brought he unwed pregnant daughter with the baby's daddy like they were the holy couple, and by the way have never announced a wedding date, again in a party that has characterized pregnant teens as future welfare moms. This probably cost McCain crucial states in the east that lead to disaster in the west. It is pretty bad when you have less than 10 votes, and your opponent is approaching 100.
In any case I think we can look on the bright side. Instead of MBA graduate who whined his way into the program on a legacy, we have a Harvard graduate that has consistently advanced on his merits.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Come meet the new boss, same as the old boss... I'd prefer neither party have clear control of the legislative branch, then they would have to work together and couldn't push their own agenda through. Neither side has the right or total answer to any problem.
"Physics is to math what sex is to masturbation." - Richard Feynman
If you're getting higher taxes under Obama, you don't NEED to save anything :P
Oh no, you won't be able to buy a Jaguar every week. Poor you.
No tyrant thrives when every subject says no.
Here's one to add to your count. My biggest fear (even as a right-leaning centrist) is that some redneck is going to assassinate Obama. While I'd personally rather see Biden in office the ramifications of our first black President being assassinated would rip this country to shreds. I love my redneck neighbors, but I pray that they all have enough sense to wait 4 years and vote the idiot out.
Hmm, if I had known that Obama was close with cow orkers, I'm not sure I would have voted for him! :)
At the time they called Obama as the president, there was still a lot to be counted. Between the 11 PM call and when I went to bed at 12:30, the entire time all of Obama's important leads were shrinking. 10%...8%...6%...5%, some even down to 2%-3%. I was honestly worried about a premature call, and wondering what would happen if I woke up and things had flipped. McCain: "yeah....ummmm....about that concession..."
I worried, while watching the results unfold, that we were witnessing another 2000. Thankfully that wasn't the case, but I still have to ask - how can you declare a winner in a given state when only 5% or some other small percent of the vote has been tallied? Exit polls are what they went on in 2000 and resulted in that results reporting fiasco. I guess the networks have decided that 8 years is enough time to pass and now they can go back to their irresponsible ways. This time it didn't bite them, but next?
--- What?
In the newspapers here (in Holland) i read a lot of comments from US citizens who are "glad 8 years of Bush are over". I find this funny and interesting because there's a good chance that some of these commenters played a part in the re-election of Bush. It just takes them another 4 years to see how bad things were in the first 4 years?
Yeah, somehow I don't think people making more than a quarter million are gonna have to do a whole lot of scrimping and saving.
FWIW, my 2c are that the better candidate won. But this is not a landslide by any means -- despite massive turnout, 47% chose McCain. It's great that Obama acknowledged these people and and said he's going to be their president, too. Quite a change from the divisiveness of the past.
Science-fiction writer John Scalzi had an excellent reality check about an Obama administration I urge all Obama supporters to read. If you're realistic about the man, great. If you're hoping for the moon -- well, this might just save you a lot of disappointment later.
Go somewhere random
No more SNL sketches about Palin :(
Did you listen to the same speech as I did? Of course he thanked his campaign team, these people just busted their ass for the last 6 months. But he also clearly pointed out the problems lying ahead. What did you want him to say? Make a list of all his plans again? A majority of americans just APPROVED those plans! He clearly stated that this election by itself did not constitute change, that the promessed change was only now starting and would not be possible without the hard work of all americans.
10 ?"Hello World" life was simple then
Go slouch towards Gommorah somewhere else. Just because you think you are right doesn't mean other people are not. I mean, jeez, it's going to take 20 years to clean up after W before anyone could even talk about really changing society in any meaningful way.
Calling Obama a socialist after 8 years of Bush growing the government, giving titanic bailout packages to Wall Street, keeping companies alive on corporate welfare, propping up economic figures by ignoring the excesses of an industry, giving companies incentives to send jobs overseas, fighting wars that benefit no one, and all the other garbage that has been kicked up since 2000 is plain nuts. We are emerging from a form of socialism directed solely at the top 1% of Americans and it is time to move on.
M
No, the Republicans lost and while giving lip service to various exteme Christian fundamentalists that would like some sort of Biblical law they would never have gone that far either. Some don't think Church and State should be different but most do.
However it looks like education requires a bit of work if people actually get things so badly mixed up.
We will now have to sharply limit complaining about privacy issues and everything else that has been complained about for the last eight years. We can expect to lose fully 85% of total post content as any criticism of government could be seen as criticism of our great leader.
We will now be ignoring all of the things that we have been so noisy about; just like when Clinton was in office. Now we go back to the pre-Bush slashdot; where the stealing of FBI files to be used for purely political purposes barely registers.
All of the issues that we have superficially held fast to will have to be discarded as they can no longer be used to bludgeon our political opponents.
I for one welcome our new unaccountable overlords!
Humor from a Genetically Molested Mind
Newsflash: Obama voted for all of that in the Senate.
I think you are thanking us because your population won't increase as drastically in the next year...
Honestly I could care less what whether our next president is white or black. I tend to be more concerned with things that will actually effect the future of myself and the country. What does concern me is people voting for a president based on the color of his skin. They have word for that, it's called racism.
Let me say this:
THANK FUCK.
No tyrant thrives when every subject says no.
Typical neoconservative.
In case you haven't noticed, the fruits were already redistributed, from our wallets to a vault owned by some millionaire-turned-billionaire.
People like you always try to act like democrats want to take what you've earned and give it to poor people.
You're wrong and you probably will never realize it. They want to take from the obscenely rich and give it to poor people.
It's pretty fair to say that there's nothing a man can do, who earns a few million dollars a year, to justify that as his fair share. What can a man do to rightfully earn that much over a man who works harder and longer that earns peanuts? Let's not discuss education or intelligence. They don't matter here. I want to know how you, who probably doesn't even make $100k a year can stick up for people who have systematically pillaged both the American Treasury and picked the pockets of Americans for over a generation.
They're using their grammar skills there.
Well, I can guarantee you that I know where I was at the election of any President of the United States during my conscious life: waking up in my bed listening to the announcement on the radio alarm clock ;-)
No joke. Plus the suspension of basic civil rights, undercutting the posse comitatus act, widespread government surveilance of civilians, launching wars that benefit noone. GOP socialism is the worst kind of socialism anyone could ever think of.
M
Last night I was at a Smashing Pumpkins concert in Toronto, and when the band took the stage again for the encore, Billy Corgan informed us of the presidential results, and the theatre burst into cheering and applause. Just thought you yanks would like to know you've got our support from the North!
Are you saying nerds don't vote? If so, that's a shame. :)
Yeah that inexperienced thing is patently retarded. He has about the same level of experience as Kennedy and more importantly, he's intelligent enought to surround himself with good advisors rather than sycophants and criminals.
I agree with your assessment of the situation and I sincerely hope you are correct.
As a US Citizen, however, it concerns me that President Elect Obama received around 97% of the African American vote. I find it difficult to believe that 97% of African Americans agree on critical policies. In other words, it appears that many people voted based on race, not on policy.
While Mr. Obama's election may indeed help improve things as you have said, I feel that it is a sad state of affairs when the candidate's race was the deciding factor for a large number of voters. I fully realize that there are many people who voted against Mr. Obama for the exact same reason, but the difference here is that about 97% of African American voters voted for Obama. The split of non-African American voters for each candidate is about what one would expect based on policies.
Yes, Mr. Obama's election is indications of movement forward on many fronts, but it is only a small step, not a radical shift. We (the USA) have a long way to go.
I find it particularly interesting that the CAPTCHA for this post is "harmony".
The Republicans will quickly realize that McCain lost because he didn't start his campaign early enough. They'll correct that problem by starting NOW... campaigning for the election of 2016.
(Congrats to Obama. He's one of the best campaigners I've seen in more years than I'll admit to surviving.)
Hard work is penalized, and laziness will be rewarded.
For hard working citizens such as yourself this cloud has a silver lining!
Take the next 4 years off, don't work, drink beer all day. You'll be better off than if you had a job! That is, if you really believe what you just wrote.
Trolling is a art,
Wellfare to all is a reality on Brazil at long time. Is not perfect of course, but is better than nothing
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
Don't underestimate the Secret Service. These guys are elite-trained for the job.
I personally hope they try while he's on TV. I'd love to watch Jethro get curb-stomped with his hood tied around his neck.
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I voted for Barr - even though I was rooting for Obama.
Why didn't I vote for Obama? Because I'm so disgusted with BOTH the Democratic and Republican parties that I,at least, wanted to send a message that, regardless of their candidate, I do not approve of their policies and direction.
As far as I'm concerned, the Bill of Rights, all of them, are cast in stone. We can't pick and choose which ones to keep.
Every square millimeter of the US is a Free Speech Zone.
We have the right to bare arms. PERIOD. That means if I want a magazine that holds 50+ rounds, I can have it. If I want a machine gun, so be it. Handgun -you bet - and NO license if I want to carry.
There is a separation between church and state. Religion has no business in government.
Libertarian Party - The other right meat.
I say things which affects my Karma negatively. (and I don't care) For instance; All religion is false.
I. for one. welcome our new negro overlord.
Will change mean that I am not called a racist if I disagree with Obama?
Will change mean that slavery is now something that can finally be put to bed 145 years after it ended?
Will change mean that people can have a rabid hatred of Obama as people had of Bush and still be free?
Will change mean that people with little money will have more money?
With change my conservative values will that make me a target of hate?
Will change mean the majority be sensitive to my beliefs and values?
Will change mean nothing has really changed but people are now happy Europe is not mad at us any more?
Will change mean that our troops will be not be forgotten.
Will change mean that government will not take over our 401k, healthcare, car payments, house payments, freedom?
Will change mean that Obama will campaign for change in 2012?
Change is all well and good but what does change mean. It can mean a lot of things to a lot of people but now the work has to begin words are not enough by any person any where. While people disagree with any election we still have the only country in the world that can transition peaceably from power to power every 4 years if need be. We still have a document that no other country in the world dares to implement because it gives the freedom to the people and not those that run the government.
We are free because we choose so do not let anyone of any party take any of that freedom in the name of change. Support the good and denounce the bad with out fear of retaliation or hate.
We are free because we are American's we are American's because we are free.
The Patriot Act was passed by a Republican Congress and signed by a Republican president.
As a male white Italian with no involvement into USA elections, I have to admit that this morning I cried and laughed hearing what just happened in a big nation far far away. This changes everything. The politics of fear will end. Black people won't be seen "out of place" in any place from now on. Things won't go worse all the time, like last years made us think! A big thank you to the US people. This affects us all.
Nuffsaid
________
Don't know about his cat, but Schroedinger is definitely dead.
It's been effectively swept under the carpet by the Obama Press Corps - namely, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, etc. If you mention that stuff now, you are a tin-foil-hat-wearing nutjob, and agents from the Department of Mental Hygiene will be along shortly to escort you to a re-education center where you will be taught true love for your messiah and saviour, Barry O.
"Alcohol, Tobacco, & Firearms" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
Hmm, I thought cow orkers tended toward the Republicans more?
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
I'm a republican, who did not vote for Obama, but even suggesting that kind of nonsense is irritating to me. Like it or not he is our President and to even hint or suggest that could happen is just plain Ignorant.
I'm not American and couldn't vote but I've spent all my adult life here and the last eight years have affected my life in much the same ways it affected yours. I'm very glad there were record turnouts, whoever you voted for.
I think its good to recognize this as a historic and important moment. I stayed up all night working and listening to the coverage. It is a night I'll remember and I'm admittedly quite happy. Certainly, there is hope, a word I haven't heard much off since 2001. I'm very glad that he acknowledged that the real work lies ahead and that it will take a spirit of service and sacrifice and both of them talked about coming together and bridging the gaps that have cut this nation.
Bridging gaps is a hugely critical message today. There is an interesting discordant note between all the commentators speaking about how this marks the end of slavery and the fruition of the civil rights movement and the change of a generation, and what looks like a yes vote on Proposition 8 in California. When the dust has settled, there is going to be much talk about the way different demographics voted and the gaps that represents. I hope it will not take 40 years for all of us to recognize that in the end, beyond nationality, skin colour, sexual orientation, religious beliefs or background, we are all just human beings.
Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
I think most "Rednecks" are a lot smarter and better tempered than you give them credit for. Unfortunately, it only takes one loony to commit such an act, but then we shouldn't call him a Redneck. We would call him a "loony," "criminal," or "murderer."
I know that many of you are Republican supporters and fundamentally oppose many of the things that Obama and the Democratic party represents but one thing I believe this election has done is to make US citizens more involved in the electoral process. Obama will not be able to get away with some things that Bush was able to. Regardless of how you feel you are at a point in history. Many persons in the south objected to the civil rights movement and felt that giving African Americans basic rights would lead to the death of America as they knew it. That did not happen. Let history judge Obama, but you have your role to play, you have the power to take your nation to higher heights.
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As I pressed 'submit,' I noticed that...and unfortunately, the form data was posted before I could fix the error. Should have hit 'preview...'
Palm trees and 8
I voted Obama, but Greens for about everything else.
Thank the gravitational pull of the moon!
Do you honestly believe that he was elected BASED on his skin color? I am hopeful that he was elected based on his ability to lead.
Personally, I was going to vote Libertarian, but I watched the election. He was WAY behind nearly all the other dems. And while HRC BLEW everything that she had up front, he spent evenly. More importantly, he took advantage of tech. He became the eventual winner. Then came Obama vs. McCain. I watched Obama act coolly when McCain wanted to attack Russia. It told me that McCain was a total disaster, since we are already in a disaster war in Iraq in part because of McCain. And with the economy, well, we all know how McCain acted; BOTH extremes.
Simply put, I voted for Obama because he appears to be a leader, but with a minimal record.
Exactly why did you vote for him? Did you put skin color first?
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
... of incessant, smug, loony bitching and ranting by the Libertarians.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
And if people were truely sick of being treated like shit, there would be 3rd party candidates in the house and senate, enough of them were up for election!
There won't be any third parties in the US until they start having proportional elections.
According to the latest numbers, Obama got 68% of the electors, but only 52% of the votes. That's a good marker of the error in the current Plurality voting system.
It's in the House of Representatives we might see the first real change, if third parties gain enough votes to control the balance of power.
What? You're surprised? Surely you remember Clinton? Fortunately with Clinton he was too busy laying sausage to spend time screwing up the country. I can only hope that, like Clinton, Obama will keep himself busy continuing to campaign even though he has already won and won't have time to fulfill the promises he made. Promises which the populace seems to be excited about, but frankly scared the hell out of me.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
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This was what it came down to for me. I didn't quite agree with everything Obama was proposing, but it came down to the strive for knowledge. It seemed at every turn the Republicans seemed so proud of their own ignorance. Higher education made you an "elitist." Sure, McCain may not necessarily have been one of them, but he surrounded himself with them (Palin is a great example), and it is the people that make up your administration that really point the direction of the country.
Does anyone else see a path back to power for conservatives?
I don't
Democrats have:
*Almost total control of all 3 branches
*Socialism is addictive
This time Obama promised $1,000, in other people's money, to tens of millions of Americans.
How does any conservative run on undoing that?
Those millions will vote for Obama again when he promises to *two* thousand dollars in 2012.
*The Media
Fox News, you say?
I say ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, NPR and nearly every newspaper.
Talk Radio you say? The Fairness Doctrine will silence dissenting voices in talk radio.
*Control of the floodgates of illegal immigrants, who vote 2 to 1 Democrat.
Yes, they vote. and Democrats oppose the "draconian" requirement of an ID card to vote.
*Labor Unions. They support Card Check which eliminates secret ballot voting in unions.
*Total control of teachers unions. (think social studies)
*15,000,000 federal employees and counting.
How does a conservative run on cutting government when such a huge portion of the population will fear for their jobs and vote against them.
...is the international reaction to Obama's win. I knew that the reputation of America and Americans had been battered over the past few years, but I never suspected that it was as bad as it was. I watched the results last night, said a little "huzzah!" when Obama was declared, listened as McCain gave a warm, dignified, and gentlemanly concession speech, and then went to bed thinking I'd seen it all. I woke up at about 4:45 this morning and I've been flipping between news stations ever since. I got a little emotional last night during the speeches, but I'm absolutely devastated by the number of non-Americans who are dancing in the streets over Obama's win. I never thought I'd see video of a few hundred Chinese people jumping around and chanting "Obama! Obama!" A reporter in France walked up to a woman and simply said "Obama?" Her face lit up and she simply said "C'est formidable!" Kenyans are throwing feasts in his honor. Arab and Persian states are happy. Israel is happy. Pakistan is happy. Australians are losing their damned minds over it. Russia is... well, they're kinda grumpy, but they're not having a good year. And all morning I've been hitting my usual haunts (/., Fark, CNN, BBC, & more) and I keep seeing messages posted by people from a zillion different countries congratulating us and thanking us for "making the right choice." Before you ask, yes I voted for him, no, I don't think he's the messiah, and yes, I'm still pissed at him for breaking his promise over campaign financing. But even with all that, I still can't shake the feeling that something *seriously* important happened last night. I'm almost 40, so I've seen a few elections, but never in my life have I seen or felt the kind of excitement that's in the air right now. It seems like all sorts of barriers have just... vanished. Racial, political, international, interpersonal, it just all seems different now. I know that part of it is just the morning-after buzz of having your candidate win, but there's something special about having a friend email you and tell you how they got hugged twice in Germany while wearing an Obama t-shirt and walking to the bakery on the corner, then reading a post that says "The Netherlands are happy for you!" The world stood up and took notice of us this morning. I hope he doesn't let us down.
Thus endeth my waxing philosophical.
welcome our new overlord.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
Yep. Hollywood and the media got what they wanted.
In general, the American people will believe what they see and hear on the o'l boob tube. Just look at CNBC. I watch that all the time and mostly hear "gloom and doom". Mind you, things are not great, but when the masses hear and see what the media pushes, they react in kind.
Truly we are sheep.
INSERT INTO comment VALUE('Doh!') WHERE user='you';
Exactly! This is what I've been trying to tell people the whole election - Republicans AREN'T Republican anymore. They have as a group become very Authoritarian/Centrist.
I would have voted Republican this year if there had been one running. The last candidate to run on a real Republican platform was Bush. The trouble with that was it was all a lie. He ran on a platform mostly opposite of what he did. Twice. I still can't believe people believed him the second time around.
How many presidents have the Secret Service lost? They're good, but there's a lot of nut-jobs out there.
Anybody remember the L.A. riots after the Rodney King affair. Obama getting shot would make that look like a tea party.
Obama is not going to fix anything. His campaign promised to put in policies which will actually make things much worse. That's why I voted against him. I voted for mcCain not because I was excited about him, but because I was terrified of Obama's policies, promises and voting records.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
What a lot of bizarre, whining comments I see on this list and elsewhere. This is democracy - sometimes your party wins, sometimes not; but you are expected to accept it with good grace and make the best of it. At least you can't say that this was not won fair and square. Well, I suppose those on the losing side are entitled to feel a bit sore - I'm sure you will get over it.
Let us look a bit on what has happened here: For one thing, Obama and his team have organized a brilliant and effective campaign; that shows he has determination, organisation skills and leadership. So, he is actually qualified for the job. Another thing we have seen is that he raised a staggering amount of campaign money, much of it in the form of small individual contributions - to me that says that a lot of ordinary people really wanted what he has to offer, not just rich corporations. All in all, this really is the people of America that has spoken, loudly and clearly. And what is he actually suggesting? As I hear it, he talks about solving problems by talking to people rather than ripping out the biggest gun you've got and start blasting away; he talks about being responsible in money matters and about not giving taxpayers money to those least in need: rich people. What is wrong with that?
But I don't think that is the most important thing that has happened, really. What has really happened is that people have thrown off the fear and insecurity that the NeoCons and the religious right have used to keep them down. Yes, it is hugely important that he is the first non-white president, but the really important thing is that people have chosen not to cower in fear any longer, but instead stand up and face it. And I think it is also remarkable that they have chosen what looks like an entirely unknown new direction - that is how much they didn't like the old ways.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
Hey, yank, quit your damn whining! Paying taxes won't kill you, and seriously, who did you expect would pay that huge debt to China, pay for the war or help rebuild the economy? Money may just be ink printed on paper, but it still has to come from somewhere. That somewhere has been YOUR POCKETS for the last eight years.
It's just that no one told you until now.
So grow up, start living responsibly and quit whining
Blog -
Well done north-americans (i'm american too, but not from EUA. America is not ony north-america). Now, You have to learn to be more nice with the rest of the world, we (the rest of world) do not like much of people who try to impose by force.
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
Typical neoconservative.
Who is? Neocons are just as bad as socialists, maybe worse, because they speak of capitalism but invoke statism - they hope to get the benefits of capitalism through government manipulation of the economy, and as always, they fail.
In case you haven't noticed, the fruits were already redistributed, from our wallets to a vault owned by some millionaire-turned-billionaire.
Who are you talking about? Care to give any context to your statement, or are you fine with wallowing in ambiguity?
They want to take from the obscenely rich and give it to poor people.
And what right do they have to take someone's property and give it to someone else?
It's pretty fair to say that there's nothing a man can do, who earns a few million dollars a year, to justify that as his fair share.
It's quite easy if he got that money through voluntary trade. You invent a product, I buy it, and everyone else buys it. Now you're rich. Do you suddenly not have a right to your earnings? Was anyone forced to buy your product?
What can a man do to rightfully earn that much over a man who works harder and longer that earns peanuts?
He agreed to those peanuts when he agreed to the job. If he and everyone else would hold out for more, they would get more (that's what a union does). Whose fault is it but his own for not improving his skill set?
I want to know how you, who probably doesn't even make $100k a year can stick up for people who have systematically pillaged both the American Treasury and picked the pockets of Americans for over a generation.
I am not sticking up for politicians, nor for corrupt companies who bribe politicians into getting favorable tax breaks. I am sticking up for companies and businessmen who have made my life better. Everything I have I owe to them - my car, my home, my computer, my job, everything I buy, all the choices I have. That's what made (past tense) America great. A scientist or programmer alone doesn't make a product successful, unless he also becomes the businessman by increasing efficiency of production and user-base.
the kind that people decades from now will remember and ask each other "Do you remember where you were when Obama was elected?"
In bed, getting some Z's, as I was on the other side of the world and I'm damned if I'm staying up to see some states turn blue and red instead of just hearing the result tomorrow. :-D
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
They know that he'll let them get away with everything they've done. He doesn't want to fight them, he wants to "talk to them".
That's a lie. Always dangerous when people start believing their own propaganda, you might want to be careful.
I was under the impression that after Bush won the last election and started thumping is chest and bellowing something about spending the political capital that he earned. Then he ordered the telecom industry to wiretap everyone's phone and then signed of on systematic torture. Does calling the constitution "just a piece of paper" and spitting on human rights not count as "saying goodbye to your rights"? Let's not forget the borrow and spend policies of the Republicans that got us into a war that had absolutely nothing to do with terrorists or weapons of mass destruction. Maybe if we actually were taxed to pay for this war the people who proudly carried Bush's banner would have paused for a few minutes to think things over.
Many people thought we were getting the lesser of two evils when Bush was elected over Gore.
Not trying to say McCain would be better.
Just saying that when you choose between two evils, you still end up with evil.
You're so clever! I haven't seen this question asked today yet.
...welcome our new black, arab, muslim, atheist, socialist, communist, not-born-in-america, terrorist, redistributionist-in-chief overlord.
LOL!
Seriously, from all of us in fake America to all of you in real America, thanks for the laughs...and the winks. Let's not forget the winks.
Go Obama!
All the election really decided is in which direction the downward spiral will continue to spin for the next four years. It seems that it will spin left instead of right. Neither candidate gave me high hopes for it turning upward; not when the right has forgotten mercy, the left has forgotten justice, and the middle has forgotten willpower.
Still, congratulations on a campaign well-fought and well-won.
Al-Queda, WAR!, Economy, BLACK PEOPLE, FAIL!, etc.. Fear mongering and idiot remarks about how Obama is going to fail because he is either black, leftist and what ever else you bunch of asshats are saying is worse than any lies either candidate told during the campaign. Stop being such a bunch of douchebag negative shit packers and realize that Obama has given HOPE back to a once great nation. I for one am very pleased that we have cleared the crap from the white house and will have someone who will focus on domestic affairs. Everyone, whether or not they will admit it, will benefit from a Democrat being elected. Now I am going back over to Digg to celebrate with some people who I can mod down for not seeing things my way! :o)
"My immediate reaction is "WTF? What kind of moron doesn't make things 64-bit safe to begin with?" Linus
I can't wait for the 'change' he so consisently promises to be nothing more of the same of shit just with a slightly darker skin tone. He's a complete moron who BARELY ever registered a vote in the Senate that was something other than 'PRESENT' and his VP is a bootlicking scumbag. Well done, USA! We've managed to pick the biggest fucking loser of all time to run this country at a time when we need a JFK, or a Lincoln to run, what do we get? Herbert bloody Hoover or Chester Arthur.
I cannot understand how, with the Dems having a majority of the last 2 years AND HAD A LOWER APPROVAL RATING THAN BUSH can get an even clearer majority. Obviously the majority of American people are STUPID and FUCKING LAZY and refuse to be anything other than the damn victim.
All who voted for this dipshit are a disgrace to the country and the flag.
Pax Vobiscum
Well, to be honest, that was with a democratic majority in the legislative side of things.
To the gp:
Not that a nominal amount of redistribution of wealth is a bad thing. It's called a progressive tax and is a generally accepted (especially as it was in play for the greater part of the establishment known as the United States government). The progressive tax is more obvious in the times of warfare during World War II and all previous wars. Guess what - it doesn't inconvenience the economy. Lower income families are better able to afford necessities and higher income families and corporations aren't much affected, unless they are already completely fiscally irresponsible.
"Little is much when little you need."
wheres the -1: idiot moderator tag?
anyways I wish to say, congratulations to our friends across the ocean outside my house here in Ireland, a step in the right direction your country took after 8 years of ....
i actually cant find a word to describe the disgust at the bush administration and the far right lunatics that took your country and the world on a tangent :(
It's not Obama that's the winner here, but Nancy Pelosi. Now she can pass her most insane proposals without being vetoed.
Why is he an old guy instead of an experienced guy? Why did Biden get such a fine adjective by McCain was slagged? Let's face it, your bias is as clear as day. It's this bias that keeps America chasing it's own tale.
And if you would vote for Ron Paul why not vote for Bob Barr? Granted, the man didn't have a chance to win but it would be nice to see a third party finally get some of the federal funding instead of the same old game next election.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
OK, so you got to make fun of McCain supporters. Here's the otherside in all fairness.
Oh ... my ... gosh! Did you hear, like, he really won! Obama .. the One ... He won!
I can't believe it. Obama's going take care of my mortgage, my car, my credit cards, my kids school lunches, my cable bill, my trips to Whole Foods, my hair care bill, my ... my ... my ... OOOOOOOHOOHOOHOHO! (Pant, pant). The Big O just gave me a Big O!
If the american people believe so strongly in their candidates, why haven't they "taken him out"? Has the age of assassination been sniper'd?
blog.idigitall.com
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Please I hope "God"had nothing to do with it. Can we please get past this religion drug? Anyhow, now that the troll bait is out of the way. Congratulations to Mr.Obama, friends, & cow-orkers.
I assume you'll be fair and tell people they should stop using the Lord's name in vain when they say "Oh my God" all the time, especially on TV. By the way, some drugs are useful and not illegal so calling religion a drug isn't a bad thing, nor is religion itself bad. Religion isn't the problem. The lack thereof causes the problems as well as those people who have something against religion. Didn't anyone ever teach you diversity?
this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
my hopes from Obama during the next 2 years: 1) restore integrity to the white house; To be honest, it really can not get much worse. He MUST push for a full investigation of the W admin (spying on Americans; haliburton; email switcheroo; etc). He must also allow the reagan and now Poppa bush papers to be seen. W blocked it by allowing the family to block what ever they wanted to. What a joke that was. 2) restore integrity in other countries views of AMerica. Again, it can not get much worse. He will have a SHORT time for this, but it will be there. He will need a VERY GOOD secretary of State. I pray that he brings back Powell (sans rice). In addition, he should keep Gates as well as Petraus. The top intel ppl MUST go. They have been far more detrimental to the intel community than is generally known. Negroponte was horrible, and McConnell is not much better. They both have been trying to force out numerous ppl who were well thought of and replace them with idiots; Imagine moving rumsfeld into a number of top spots. DHS has been a total joke from the git-go. It was loaded with idiots who must have been related to rumsfeld or cheney. They forced the group to go on Windows even though it is LOADED with so many security issues. Even now, those ppl have not been able to lock down their own computers let along systems elsewhere. 3) restore jobs here. While reagan and W put us deep in debt, we still have plenty of money to build our economy back. That means killing the taxcuts that encourage job movement overseas. In addition, it may mean tax cuts as well as RD in new areas; namely green energy (which is what he speaks of). 4) Start the big move off imported OIL. Drilling will not work. Since the majority of oil goes to our cars, he will have to focus on moving cars off oil. 5) Due to global warming (real or just perceived), we MUST cut our CO2 production. The majority comes from 2 items; Coal and Transportation. By moving our cars to Electrical, it will solve the above issues nicely. 6) GET US OUT OF IRAQ. If he does not have us withdrawing out of Iraq by 2010 (or gone), then dems will be finished. IDEALLY, we will have won the war against AQ. If it was retreat along the lines of when reagan showed his yellow belly in lebanon, then it will mean more future attacks against us. And yes, the pubs, and I suspect voters, would destroy dems in the polls.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I need say: You guys earned it.
You went through a lot the last years, and I daresay, not all of you who supported Bush had a good feeling in their belly all of the time.
To us Europeans, the result is almost as important as for you. Why?
We live in a more or less socialised economy, which means, that we try to spend the prosperity and good luck we received through economic upturn and scientific/industrial progress on as many people as possible. Sure, some say this is redistribution of wealth, and this tastes like communism. Let me tell you, it is _not_.
We do follow the principles of economy and free market as you do, but we try to make sure that economic success, which we are all working on, is shared even in hard times for the individual. This leads to more happy faces in the streets, more money in the economy (since the "poor" can spend money too, and don't drop out as a workforce) and altogether a better feeling. Less poverty, almost no slums (we actually don't use this word for places in our own countries, because we have nothing alike) and social stability are the result.
Well, but we can not barricade ourself in europe, no economy can. We need to exchange goods and money with the rest of the world, we need to take part in a worldwide economy.
As you do, dear americans. But what if you went on with this (neocon) way (AND had lasting success with it, which you clearly didn't ...) - we would have had to compete with that, sooner or later. I don't doubt that it would've been a requirement due to a inferior economy (seriously, we have a great economy, and so did you), but I think, sooner or later the model of thinking would have spilled over to us, and we would have had to abide.
So, what's going to happen now?
You will learn (those of you who don't already believe in it) that state-funded social security and healthcare makes those things cheaper and better for everyone.
You will learn, that social stability is more worth than 2% more income.
You will learn, that less poverty and hopelessness yields less crime.
You will learn, that working together yields more profit for all - instead of the GET OF MY LAWN attitude, which will eventually leads to hardship and anger for a significant part of society.
As one quite rich Austrian (Peter Haselsteiner, CEO of one of the biggest construction companies here) said prior to an election in Austria
"I shall be grateful for being able to go on a drink with my Porsche and coming back to my car which isn't vandalised. I shall understand that social stability is worth more than money." (he too was in favour of raising taxes for the rich)
Social stability is a good that provides better quality of life for everyone, not just for those who receive welfare.
Where did the idea that Democrats would have reacted differently to the September 11 attacks come from? Allow me to repeat it from a previous post: No president since the 1950s, from either party, has served an entire term without engaging America in some foreign military conflict. No president has reduced the size or power of the military. No president has cut defense spending. Both parties have voted in favor of increased globalization, and the use of signals intelligence to spy on foreign businesses and pass their trade secrets to US businesses has occurred during periods of control from both parties. Involvement with foreign nations has only happened in those nations that appear to have strategic or economic value to the US (so do not go around expecting the US to intervene in Congo or Sudan), regardless of which party is in office.
Palm trees and 8
and many Republicans found the neoconservatives to be embarrassing.
And that's a reason why many former Republicans are not Republicans any longer. I voted Republican in the past. This year I voted Libertarian. Naturally I didn't have any delusions that Barr would win, but it was a vote with my conscience.
Over on another, heavily Republican (and I'm talking the whacko variety where they believe that the Illuminati and NWO are behind everything bad that happens) discussion forum, I was threatened with a forum ban for discussing the merits of a third party. God help any actual Democrat that wanted to speak there.
I'll admit: there's so many things that I don't like about Democrat positions that it's not funny. That said, the huffing and puffing, and the "Agree with me or get the hell out of my sight!" attitude of so many Republicans has turned too many off from the party.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
So this is how liberty dies, to the sound of thunderous applause.
Well, after being brutalized non-stop for years, it was only a matter of time before her system gave out.
The sad thing is that people are still dumb enough to think that anything wrapped in this clusterfuck system would have been good for "liberty"
Good to have you guys back.
We missed you.
Based on the "hopes" of a lot of people, the poor guy is going to disappoint a lot of people.
His supporters who think he'll change everything.
His detractors who think he'll change everything.
Take a look at a list of presidents for the past 40 years and you'll see no one president fundamentally changes everything. Can't be done. A president doesn't have that sort of power.
As I tell everyone, whoever gets elected you hope he/she does well for our country, because then everyone wins.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
I was loading guns....
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
They want to take it *from you*, Dragon.
Say goodbye to your second amendment rights. They're as good as gone.
Say goodbye to your first amendment rights. The "fairness doctrine" will take care of freedom of the press. And if you don't happen to listen to radio, then the taxing of our charitable contributions (at least those given to Churches) will demolish what's left of freedom of religion.
Forget you right to a secret ballot. Card check is on the fast track.
Your children will be given no choice but to attend government ("public") schools. No vouchers.
Like socialized medicine? Good for you. It's coming. I suggest you take a look at Great Britain to see how well it works.
But hey - rejoice. Youp son will be able to marry the same sex partner of your choice, and your daughter will be able to abort your grandchild at will.
With the world in financial crisis, two wars, and our civil liberties gone down the tubes, isn't it time for a charismatic leader with dreams rather than Joe from accounting?
When did we become so cynical that we believed nothing would change? I suppose there were people said the same thing when FDR was elected.
When did we become a nation of "that's too hard" instead of "yes we can"?
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
It would have been no different with McCain, except the split branches would have saved us from the Dems and Reps bad ideas.
Alexander Tytler, is that you?
"Little is much when little you need."
It's a meme started by Obama. It means nothing more than that.
Cool! Obama can copy Brazil then and give everyone a free tin shack to live in!
Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
if the runner-up were appointed as the Vice President?
That might be the first step to breaking the obsession with party affiliation. The two major candidates seemed to be reasonable men, popular with most of the electorate, so why throw one on the scrapheap just because he is a member of a party infinitesimally different in doctrine to the other?
Just a comment on your system from an outsider.
Again you think 100% of readers are from USA.
I'd suggest the next right poll about nationality.
Maybe you'll find something new!
Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
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Seriously folks, is the moderating system this biased? I stick up for what I believe, for the rights of everyone, and I'm a troll??? You aren't going to force reality to change by ignoring what you don't like?
Under Bush we all got "Stimulus checks" redistribution of wealth, we "nationalized banks", we "nationalized insurance companies", we "nationalized brokerage houses", and we gave trillions in welfare to Iraq...
And now you're worried about socialism?
Welcome to last year.
No, no, you've got it all wrong. Socialism is when you nationalize successful industries!
"Make it ten--I am only a poor corrupt official."
--Captain Louis Renault (Claude Rains), Casablanca
. . .and it was one of the most electrifying nights of my life. Thanks to all to helped make it possible. Glad I took the kids, my son's too young, but my daughter will never forget last night.
You are not the customer.
I would like it very much if most of the religious right, which has been suggesting that democrats move to another country if they don't like the Bush Doctrine, eat their own dog food now.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
I was laying in bed fighting Combine in my dreams/nightmare, plus those nasty head crabs that jump out when you least expect them.
I watched the speech on cnn.com this morning from work, checked into the results of my local races (all won by Democrats), and really came away with a feeling that there is a ton of work that needs to be done, and not all of it can be done by one man in a short period of time. The other thing I did was look online at some guns because I know at some point there will be a tragedy involving a nutcase with a gun (ala VT or Columbine) and they'll be coming for my guns next.
This post brought to you by your friendly neighborhood MBA.
I'll just start out by admitting that I my politics don't match Obama's at all. (Fiscially conservative, socially liberatarian. Not that I liked McCain either.) Also will get off my chest that the vast majority of people voting for Obama are basically just a bunch of cult members. However I really hope Barry does a good job as president because if he doesn't the person that will pay for his mistakes won't be him, it'll be people like me.
Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
Bart: What happened to you, China? You used to be cool.
Chinese Man: Hey, China is still cool. You pay later. Later! [pounds fist on table]
Bart: Solid. The rest of you go on home, and look in your mailboxes, cause I totally remember sending checks out. [murmuring, the creditor nations' representatives leave]
I voted McCain! Maybe we should all get together in 2012 and write in Kodos, just to see what happens.
That will never happen until we switch to consecutive run-off balloting. The election system being divided into districts and divisions will always favor a two party system until people are free to vote for a third party without "wasting" their vote. And yes, I voted Nader.
Oh honey look... How cute... an angry slashdotter!
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[foil hat mode] Accidentally, you mean? None. *taps nose* [/fhm]
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
If you hadn't noticed, their economy is doing better than ours.
"Little is much when little you need."
I would have hoped that the American people would be smart enough to know that the crisis was a bi-partisan failure. From Credit Default Swaps passing the Senate as a rider 98-0, to the Bush Administration sounding the alarm in 2003 but being ignored, to Barney Frank famously telling the House Republicans that there is nothing wrong with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (and getting the backing of House Democrats), to the Republicans blocking the Fannie/Freddie bill once it reached the Senate, there is plenty of blame to spread around.
The truth is that the economic crisis happened because the financial markets found new ways to be greedy that no one understood. When the powers that be looked at the balance sheets, they'd see these odd financial instruments and mortgage-backed securities and just shrug and say, "We trust that you guys are educated and know what you're doing. Besides, it seems to be working." Only now that they're falling apart is it clear to everyone how underhanded and vile these various financial instruments were. It's all crystal clear in 20/20 hindsight.
That being said, McCain didn't help himself any by appointing Grahm and Fiorna as his advisors. Having the guy responsible for CDSes and the most hated CEO in history (at least, that hasn't been prosecuted) didn't exactly endear him to the American public.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
You're all nuts - America has just been given away!
About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:
A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.ÃFrom that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.
The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence.
From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage;ÃFrom courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance;ÃFrom abundance to complacency; From complacency to apathy;ÃFrom apathy to dependence;ÃFrom dependence back into bondage.Ã
Seems we are now entering the "Dependence" Phase!
The critisism on Palin has been very, VERY subtle. I'm dead sure that a lot of people fear that voting for grandpa McCain might actually become a vote on Palin. And when the analysists and the experts say "if something happens to McCain, will she be ready to step into his shoes?", they're actually saying "if McCain goes twelve feet under, will Palin shapeshift to her true form as Belsebub and suck the blood of a thousand virgins?".
I'm serious, I've seen the picture of Lucifer on earth, and often he's displayed with boobs suspiciously similair to those of Palins.
I am the lawn!
That's funny, I don't recall hearing that Brian Moore won?
That's what conservatives have been telling progressives to do for the last 8 years. The "real America" has, apparently, chosen the direction they want to go. If you don't like it, leave.
Sounds very petty, doesn't it. It's a good time to realize that empathy for those who disagree with you is not a weakness.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
I was watching CNN last night on AC360, and Soledad O'brien said "96% of African Americans voted for Obama". That trend disturbs me quite a bit. I understand just how far African American have come since the Emancipation Proclamation. I get that. I'm also proud that we're at a point in our nation where we can elect someone who is black. That's great. What really bothers me is that somehow 96% of African Americans found the qualifier for President of the United States to be in a man's color of skin, and not his promised policies. I'm sure there were a hefty group who also believed in his policies, but I know that not all African Americans are hardcore democrats, or even independents. So there was a rather large (aka: not small) group that voted for Mr. Obama because of the color of his skin, despite differences of opinion on the way the country should go. That, is what disturbs me. And yes, I also realize there are voters in every election who vote for someone because they're white. Duh. But you'll never see 96% of white voters voting for the white candidate in an election between a white man and a black man. That obviously didn't happen yesterday. Race should never be a reason to vote for anyone - I don't care if they're purple.
You insult the AC, but your post basically agrees with him. No major successful political figure today truly represents liberty, including GWB.
"Rub her feet." -- L.L.
Religion is a bad thing when you get zealots bent on using legislation to force their beliefs on others. The Republicans have been hitching their wagon to that pony since the 80s. It came back to bite them in the ass this time. Instead of talking about issues and coming up with plans to help people, they decided to talk about abortion, gays, and Israel instead. Hopefully they will learn a lesson from this years vote and reevaluate their priorities.
I can't tell if this is a joke or not, but people all over the world are laughing at the notion of Obama being a socialist. As in the 90s, at least we can rejoice over the lesser of two evils winning
Sigh, I checked, but Cthulhu was not on my ballot.
How amazed would you be to suddenly find that you just forgot what I wrote and you needed to reread my post.... again.
The United States was founded on Guns and Religion. It was Religion that sent people to the colonies. It was Guns that kept that Religion from being oppressed.
Using the Freedom of Speech while I still have it.
I was under the impression that after Bush won the last election and started thumping is chest and bellowing something about spending the political capital that he earned. Then he ordered the telecom industry to wiretap everyone's phone and then signed of on systematic torture. Does calling the constitution "just a piece of paper" and spitting on human rights not count as "saying goodbye to your rights"?
Who said I would ever support the Republican Party, or Bush for that matter? Bush violated rights. McCain would have too. Obama will too, but with a Dem majority in Congress we're likely to see more damage than we would under a split system.
i feel that what this means is that America (and maybe even the world) has given the Democrats, more or less, a slate to work on. The ball is in their court and the people and the world have massive expectations. But to ensure that this slate isn't written on with invisible ink, the people in the US and the world must constantly remind the government that we've given them a job to do, not a right, but something that supports us, rather than just a few interest groups. If it's true that this administration wants to hear from us or dissenting voices, we have to write in and tell them constantly the direction that the country should head towards. This time it's not going to be just a party matter, but the matter of the entire American politics and the perception of America as a world leader. The government cannot slowly reveal hidden agendas along the way because it'll simply imply that the two party system is wrong and that everyone there is corrupt. I know the party isn't going to make things perfect. But I'd love to see *SOME* progress (money well spent, programs that clearly show improvements in scores, higher wages without inflation or taxes, money/credit given to green companies, money invested into research, universal health care, a meaningful social security system, punishing those crooks on Wall Street, etc). Even three of the items above would mean more than anything to me just to demonstrate something was done.
I'm an atheist. I'd also be very surprised if the statist left, like the statist right before them, doesn't make the same suggestion as the Religious (statist) Right that you despise (as I do too).
Incorrect on the wars benefiting noone. They're just another part of the corporate welfare. Somebody's making money from Iraq.
What's so bad about socialism?
Do you honestly think that voting in Obama is going to turn the states into some sort of Soviet Russia just because SOME of his plans are similar to those in Western Europe?
Wake up and realise that it doesn't matter what the idealogical principle is. All that matters is that you do the correct action for the situation. Sometimes that action is one that reflects libertarianism, sometimes conservatism, sometimes socialism, sometimes environmentalism, sometimes etc.
Your healthcare system NEEDS drastic change, perhaps socialism. No one is suggesting a British style NHS (certainly not the British). But quite simply, whether you are proud of you country or not (and when did that matter to anything) you should be ashamed of your healthcare system.
Regards
Person-bored-with-meaningless-election-fearmongering-but-honestly-impressed-with-the-US-people.
If this were really happening, what would you think?
"Although it seems heaven-sent, we ain't ready to see a black president." -Tupac Shakur, 1992
When do I have to report for re-education camp?
What?
Have you ever watched one of those movies where everyone is doomed, they're all gonna die, but they're okay with that because they've got a good leader they can depend on?
That's pretty much how I feel this morning. Not that we're all gonna die...duh...but the planet is changing, the world is changing, the seasons are changing, the economy is borked, catastrophes are occuring with greater frequency, more evil is committed by our brothers and sisters each day and chaos is descending upon the world.
I feel better knowing we will be lead by someone who will not depend on the use of fear to keep order. I feel comforted by the fact that the ant hill will not get stirred from up above. I am finally looking forward to the great changes that are upon us, whatever they may bring.
This morning, I am at peace in my mind.
Yes, he is.
He's probably the most moral man we've had in the White House since Jimmy Carter, but unlike Carter he also is an extremely skilled political operator who can get things done. I think he's going to do a fantastic job.
The election means nothing. We have to wait for January for the interesting times to begin.
If your theory is different from practice, then your theory is wrong.
I think I was wandering around Vault 106, searching for any valuable items that may have been left behind by the survivors of Vault-Tec's experiments. Turns out, I didn't find anything particularly useful.
The two parties are certainly similar in more ways than they'd like to admit, but that's not to say that things would play out the same regardless of who is chosen, or that it's an irrelevant choice.
Do you really think that we'd have invaded Iraq if Gore had won?
Anyways, there's too many people and too many issues for it to be possible for a candidate to have the "right" policies across the board. In elections, just like almost everything else in this world, we have imperfect choices. But that doesn't mean that one choice isn't significantly better than the others. All of the third party candidates have some serious flaws as well. Even Ron Paul.
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
Yup, talking to terrorists is never the right answer. Look at Northern Ireland. Clearly much worse since the two sides started talking.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
That was just a little taste of what Comrade Obama and his socialist pals in Congress have in store for you in the next four years...
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
I just hope that when he doesn't solve the economic crisis and "all of the worlds problems" that they don't blame him,
Obama has the good fortune that the crash didn't happen on his watch, so whatever he does to worsen the depression will be blamed on Bush by most people. They'll gloss over the fact that Obama voted in favor of Bush and Paulson's $850B robbery.
Hell, even today, most people think FDR ended the first great depression.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
How many presidents have the Secret Service lost? They're good, but there's a lot of nut-jobs out there.
One. (The Secret Service did not do presidential protection prior to 1901.)
Well, on the bright side, at least we aren't stealing the money from our childrens' piggy banks (eg, borrow it from places like China) like the Republicans do, right?
Sigh, why we can't just cut spending AND taxes, I don't know.
What proof of this is there? The only thing anyone can say is that we elected the guy who "is not Bush" I'm on the fences honestly but one can say with certainty that no one knows what this will bring. Leading community groups and a campaign gives NO insight into ones abilities to lead a nation.
Quick and extreme change scares the bejesus out of people and creates reactionary movements. It is usually avoided.
Change that lasts is always made slowly.
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
Has there ever been a society in the history of the earth, where a once slave class later produced an elected leader?
I realise that you Yanks aren't really up on history, but did you not even watch the film Gladiator?
Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
This election is unlike any other because:
- it ends the disastrous legacy of eight years of Bush
- it shows the triumph of Hope and Looking Forwards (how Obama campaigned) over of Fear and Divisiveness (how McCain/Palin campaigned.
But most importantly:
- it shows just how far America's gone towards MLK's "Dream". ANYONE can become president. Think about it; how many people, in THEIR OWN COUNTRIES can imagine themselves (or more importantly, their children) becoming the leader if they are not from the right clan/tribe/race/ethincity/social class. (Obama, the product of a Kenyan muslim father, lived in Indonesia, grew up in Hawaii and, as raised by his single mother, was most definitely out of the American Power structure).
THAT IS WHAT HAS/WILL MAKE AMERICA GREAT - THE FREEDOM TO ACHIEVE WHATEVER YOU ARE CAPABLE. NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE. No other country comes close I think, think about all the barriers that would prevent most people, short of revolution, from assuming the presidency in their country.
As a minority from America this, more than anything else, makes me feel like America is truly my home. Honestly it would be easier to be a success in America with all of its "racism" than in my ancestral homeland.
(It is just like how, in the movie "Ratatouille" that we realize that the phrase "Anyone Can Cook" means not that anyone can be a master chef but that a master chef can come from anywhere, even from the most unlikely of backgrounds. ;)
"The shit Bush & Co. has done will take far longer to unravel..."
Whoever controls the Bush administration has killed more than a million Iraqis to make oil and weapons profits. Killing doesn't bother them, for them it is only a way to make money.
A lot of people are saying that they will assassinate Obama.
The knives were already sharpening before the election, and you can bet that they're going to be sliding between ribs and across throats in the next several months. The teams I call "the Goldwater conservatives" and the "theocrats" are tooling up for a showdown, and I'm loading up the popcorn machine.
The theocrats seem to be able to deliver about 25% of the vote nationally, and they can be counted on to show up for their hot-button issues. Trouble is, that's enough to make a primary win impossible without them and not enough to deliver a national win. Which we've just seen: McCain had to kiss Falwell's ring to get a shot at the nomination, and that's a big part of what cost the election last night.
So -- will team Goldwater leave the party? Quite a few Libertarian-leaning former Republicans voted for Obama over civil liberties. Strange to see the Democrats becoming the party of small government; I can't see that as stable. Will team Falwell bolt to form the Jeebus Party? They could stand for secret police, wiretapping, and the full might of the State to pass judgment on our sex lives.
In the too-unlikely-to-take-seriously department: what if a critical mass of leaders in Team Goldwater decided to bolt en masse for the Libertarians? They'd have the numbers to take over an existing party structure, and they'd have what the Libertarians never had: actual power in Congress. The USA would have a viable third party for the first time in more than a century.
Popcorn. That and a fridge full of beer.
This is going to be fun to watch.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
... well at least until I see otherwise.
..most notably, the other candidates for president you never hear about. Aside from Nader, McCain & Obama are the candidates I never heard of, nor the general public cares about. They are probably there every election, yet nobody notices.
I'm glad I participated in this election. The important part of the electoral process is getting that sought after "I voted" sticker. No more stickers? That's a problem.
So, what's better than the lesser of two evils? Why, of course, the lessest of three evils!
Any wild and crazy conspiracy theories on this election? Or will this be the first election in 8 years where it seems that the winner won fairly...
Hard work is penalized, and laziness will be rewarded.
For hard working citizens such as yourself this cloud has a silver lining!
Take the next 4 years off, don't work, drink beer all day. You'll be better off than if you had a job! That is, if you really believe what you just wrote.
Regarding such things, this video shows my favorite Obama supporter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI
It just boggles the mind.
As you know ethnic cleansing was going pretty strong under the Taliban (ie, executions and rape for those Muslims and non-Muslim who did not practice strict Islamic law) before we invaded. The true tragedy is that while we focused on Iraq, those human right abuses continue in Afghanistan under our watchful eyes and the Taliban once routed into the borderlands of Pakistan have reorganized to the point where Karzai (the top Afghan CIA liason in the 80's ... ie, a Bush Buddy)is currently negotiating with them to bring about a cease fire. And they still tried to assassinate him. If you want to get a ground's eye view of the Afghanistan situation, check out rawa.org and check out the latest news. You'll want to vomit.
You claim that ethnic cleansing will restart once Bush leaves office, but you'll be shocked to know that ethnic cleansing has continued under his watch with troops on the ground. Oh, and the reason the hate us so much is because we tend to kill friend and foe alike as well as kidnap and torture in off-the-books prisons.
If McCain of the election cycle was anything like McCain of the past, I would have voted for him. I like McCain. I like the fact that he seems willing to actually TALK to people "on the other side", and has in the past shown that he can express himself well. The "even when I don't agree with him, it looks like he believes it and his point seems rational" factor was quite refreshing.
I haven't seen that in at least ten months.
Election reform is the last thing on any winner's mind, though.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
Why is it that we need to either like him and think he's a "MASSIVE step forward," or we're racist and should die in a fire? Because of his skin color we can't have ideological differences?
Sounds like you're the racist to me, friend. I saw past his skin color and disliked him for his politics and policies.
So sorry about the accents.
Absolutely - every time I hear people complain about welfare, I think they should give it a shot. It's not as easy as it would appear, and the life is not nearly as glamorous as these oppressed "working class" people would believe it to be. Further, most of these people don't pay any significant fraction of their income in federal income taxes.
The most I've ever paid in federal income taxes is about 12% of my gross income, and that was before my wife and I had kids and we both worked in LA and rented (i.e. two professional incomes and no deductions). On average, I think we pay between 6% and 9% of our gross income as federal income tax, and we're certainly above median income in my area. I pay more for sales tax when we go out to eat.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Here's my take on all of this, and you can bash it all you like.
I am a 35 year old, college edumacated agnostic white male, with a white collar job in Detroit (ouch), 2 kids, wonderful wife who works outside the home, nice house...the only thing missing is the picket fence. I save for retirement, I live within my means, I feed the economy with my money, I waste gas and drive a big-assed truck, but I also recycle.
I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal: pro-choice, pro-stem cell research, pro-gay "union" (don't care if it is marraige or not), 2nd amendment advocate, screw the mortgage and banking bailout - other stronger companies will suck up their assets and move on - I will hold the politicians responsible for that farking mess forever, let's end the war and use those resources to protect our borders and infrastructure (hell, the terrorists couldn't even take Jersey from the greasers), I'm a flat-tax advocate, fan of alternate fuels like wind/solar/hydro, drill in ANWAR and the Shelf, recycle, build more nuke plants, and yet I like long run on sentences because they're wasteful.
What I'm trying to say is that I'm not unique. I am all parties - I am both charitable and greedy, giving and needy and that these character traits ebb and flow within each of us through our lives. I doubt any of us toe down one line or the other completely, and probably not all the time. This balance is something we all share, like it or not - it makes us similar, regardless of our many differences.
I thought Bush was going to do great things 8 years ago. Now I cannot stand to hear one more word come from his gaping slack-jawed hilbilly maw. He disgusts me with every word and act. It flowed - then it ebbed (more like a tsunami). Yet I still voted for McCain because I believe he had the biggest chance to truly stand against the political machine and make true change. Perhaps I am wrong, but I'm not too big to admit it. And now that it is over I hope I am proven wrong in a big way.
Yesterday we elected our new President, our new Commander-In-Chief, our new "Leader of the Free World". When I checked CNN this morning and saw it was Obama, something stirred inside me. I felt different in some way I can't yet get a finger on - partly ill at first, partly hopeful for tomorrow and our country. Maybe I'm getting pulled into this vast movement of "hope" and "change" that has been swirling in our youth with such fervor of late. Is that a bad thing? Even if it doesn't shake out as much we wish, is hope for lasting change in and of itself a bad thing, considering the past decade we have labored through? Should we instead be dragged into the future kicking and screaming without putting our support behind our elected leadership? If that's the case, we should scrap the whole thing and start over with a new government...who's with me? Yeah, didn't think so. As long as the masses have roofs over their head, food in their belly, this will never happen. It is not until life truly becomes unbearable that "real" change happens in the form of armed revolution. So we must do what we can with what we have to try to ensure the best future for ourselves and our children.
I have made a promise to myself that I will give this man my support and will try to make the U.S. a better place over the next four years. If only a few hundred million others could do the same, perhaps we could reunite together and make the U.S. a better place for ourselves, our children, and our grand-children.
Disclaimer: I'm pretty sure all politicians are criminals in their own rite - most of which deserve to have their heads put on pikes in the town square. They have their own agendas, which should be constantly monitored and reported on by watchdog groups. We should ban all lobbyists from Washington immediately, and anyone taking a sweetheart deal before, during, or after serving as a senator or representative should be prosecuted for treason. You are not representing the people of this country in order to get rich or
Let me be the first to point out (as an Obama supporter) that John McCain decided to take what may well be his final bow on the national political stage with class, decency, and style. That he would get up there and say "I wish godspeed to the man who was my former opponent and will be my president" suggests that he might well have listened to the better angels of his own heart.
But I was saddened to hear booing from the audience when McCain started complimenting Obama. I understand why it happened, but it was really the only moment of ugliness all night.
I am officially gone from
Indeed. I would hope it wouldn't be lost on these generations of black youth that it was predominantly *white* people who voted for him. Every black person in the country could have voted for him and he still wouldn't have won if racism and oppression was as rampant as many people claim.
Racial healing? Reality check? The removal of an excuse? All of those things, I'd hope.
Frankly, I think that the expectation that Obama and the Democrats are somehow going to do things any differently from Bush and his crew is naive. And the belief that somehow Obama is inherently better for civil liberties is equally naive, if not more so.
I never could fathom the logic behind people who believe so strongly in preserving civil liberties but at the same time support the notion of a much larger government which would control our healthcare, wealth and security. How will be able to preserve our freedoms when the government knows every little thing about us, even more thoroughly than they do now.
Well, only time will tell how things turn out. I expect one of two things will happen. Obama will make a big mess of things or not much of anything at all will change. And given the absurdly high expectations of some people I think they're going to be sorely disappointed.
I will concede one thing, however. This is a historic event. Obama being elected demonstrates that racism in this country, as an institution, is dead. And anyone, regardless of background and race, can become truly successful. I hope people remember that when they start pushing for socialism.
What's up with that? I thought this was America!
Read my blog.
OK, how about 'protectees' then? Do we count Bobby Kennedy? Reagan was a close call too. McKinley was obviously the catalyst and we still have three months to see if the Curse of Tippecanoe was truly beaten by Reagan.
I guess my point is that the Secret Service aren't perfect and a determined assassin will get through.
Then again, I'm an Australian and when we lose a Prime Minister, we do it properly.
Also, :
- They were there for less than two years
- They are not in charge of the executive; by definition the legislative's impact is less imediate than the executive's
- Repugs fillibustered (or threatened to) almost everything the democrats tried to pass in the Senate
- Bush vetoed almost anything the democrats passed
Looks like the popularity contest is over. I met very few people who could actually "tell" me why they were voting for Obama, besides "He's Black", or the catchphrase "Hope" or "Change". I respect you if you stand on issues but this, like most Elections was a purchased popularity contest.
I had the honor of being in that sea of people with my wife and two kids.
You are not the customer.
I'm totally serious when my thoughts are exactly the same "Thank God!"
After the catastrophic last 8 years it needs something like a "messiah" to fix all the shit that Bush has piled up. Of course Obama will not be able to undo it with a wave of his hand but at least he is the one that CAN bring a change.
No matter how much McCain was stating that he is not Bush: he was on Bush's side almost all the way and is still supporting most of his crap.
If there was a chance: Obama is it and I'm damn glad that the Americans finally replaced that retard of a president with a proper person and didn't vote for McBush.
This is great!!! Now I get to spend the next four years providing no value, whining and complaining, and pointing out every little fault in every decision Obama makes without providing any real alternative. I get to occasionally support a decision, and then if it turns out bad, complain that I never really supported it.
Just like the liberals have done for the last eight creating one of the most divisive countries in the world and creating a self-fulfilling prophecy by ripping everything apart without contributing a thing.
This is going to be fun. I've had 8 years to study the democraps tactics and can be good at it starting ... today!!!!
I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
...that we have borrowed and spent the next generation's money. We will need massive inflation to get the money to pay off the 10 trillion national debt, or even to service it. Nonetheless, better Obama than McCain.
I hate being bipolar; it's awesome!
Last time we talked to whom? The Vietnamese?
When we pull out, North Vietnam will take south Vietnam and the world will suddenly become a lot more dangerous (after all there were lots of terrorists in Vietnam before we became involved).
Fast Forward to current fictional times:
The last time we talked with anyone over in that area, we were unwilling to make even any decent compromise. Why? Because our "cowboy president" doesn't negotiate.
Also, let us take time to remember the fallen Taliban and Al-Qaedan governments in Iraq.
Yes, I am a sarcastic asshole, but I make a point.
As an aside that isn't sarcastic, Obama stated that he intends to remove bin Laden. That's what we should have been doing in the first place.
"Little is much when little you need."
We're getting news reports now that the political war grounds are dying out, and the "All Clear" signal has been givin. Apparently in the early morning hours of November 4, a treaty was being signed to cease propaganda as of the fifth. Leaks of the treaty lasting three years have been confirmed. It isn't entirely known yet if General Palin will honor the treaty.
Remember, remember the Fifth of November.
In the past, Democrats who have been very displeased with Republican presidential victories have threatened to move to Canada. And perhaps actually done it.
Where is the escape hatch for Republicans who might be similarly displeased with the Democrat victory?
I vaguely remember something happens to a redshirts in star trek episodes...
Read my post again. You're welcome to disagree with him as a politician. You're welcome to vote against him based on those policies. That's your right. I figured "Sure, you may disagree with Obama's policies and wish McCain won..." made that clear. But, even if you disagree with him, you should be happy that he was elected because of what it represents for the country - it represents the beginning of the end of racism. That is a very good thing.
I am afraid I must share in parent's melancholy over this election. Barack Obama was not really much a Change.
Obama voted to renew the patriot act, voted to fund the Iraq war, voted in support of the FISA reform bill, doesn't support universal single-payer healthcare, and voted in favor of the bailout. His corporate campaign funding was massive and he has made it pretty well clear that he will not be making any efforts to upset the current capitalist status quo.
On diplomacy Obama supports the continued occupation of Iraq and a much increased presence Afganistan. He is also hawkish on relationships with Iran, Pakistan, and Russia. He has the same exact pro-Israel stance as his opponent.
Many people here on Slashdot expected the Dems to vote back our civil liberties and end the Iraq war. In fact they did nothing of the sort (the republicans voted against the bailout for chrissakes!) and maybe that was because they still didn't have the oval office, but with Obama's record I highly doubt there is much change.
Now I know i sound very bitter at this point, but really its more a feeling of bittersweet caution. I am deeply consoled by the fact that Obama is our first Black President! and that so many in the intl. community look upon this as a good change. Just be wary: make sure the Dems give you the change you voted for, and if they don't, give them the same treatment you gave the Neo-Cons and Evangelicals.
Full Disclosure: I Voted Nader b/c I support a more Socialist America
I voted, but not for Obama or McCain. I finally realized, due to the incessant telemarketing (especially those damned robo-calls!), that neither cared any more about my privacy than the current bozo. It demonstrated to me that both were same stuff as the past, different packages.
The people who came to my door to tout their candidate were irritating, but understandable. I look upon telemarketing as conversion of something I pay for into their marketing resource, and not as a freedom-of-speach issue. I don't care how much junk mail they send me, as they are paying for that, and I can use it for scratch paper.
The fact that Obama's mailing list was UNCONFIRMED opt-in (allowing me, if I was so inclined, to sign up anyone from coworkers to 419-ers) showed either an ignorance or lack of care about privacy, or at least polite internet practices. When I got the first of my calls from McCain's telewhores, I sent a message to McCain's web site describing what I thought of his practices, and telling him that I wanted neither e-mail or phone calls from anymore (that worked about as well as you would have thought). I didn't get any spam from McCain until 11/4, when I received a spam from him, and I figured it was because he was desperate and the account was going to be useless on 11/5 anyway. I also sent a message to Obama's web site telling him, politely, my thoughts on campaign telemarketing and spam, and politely requested that he not follow in McCain's footsteps and please not to call or e-mail me. That message was read by noone past the ethernet jack, and I was added to the "spam-this-guy-to-death" list. I did get one more spam several hours after I requested to be removed from the list.
Despite my disagreements with him on a couple of issues, I would have voted for Obama IF he hadn't incessantly telemarketed me with both volunteers and robo-calls (I received 3 calls, 2 volunteers + 1 robo-call in the space of 15 minutes while I was working on my ham radio setup one Saturday). McCain wasn't an option because he did the same thing. I think the only reason I got fewer McCain calls was he didn't have as much money to spend. As I said before, the telemarketing showed me that "change" probably wasn't happening...
YMMV -- you all have the right to your opinions. I can hope that a change for the better occurs, but I'm not too confident right now.
-- Tom
OTR rocks!
Actually what alienated him from the american public was choosing an undeducated-appearing woman with no experience for a vice president. You have no idea how many times I heard "I'd vote for McCain, but he might die, and I do NOT want Palin as president."
Millions of Obama voters are counting on your paycheck to subsidize them!
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
...the presidency wins Barack Obama
Use your head, can't you, use your head,
You're on earth, there's no cure for that - S. Beckett
And like those who didn't vote, you are an anonymous coward, so you're opinion doesn't count. Besides you are not allowed to hold an opinion that is wrong.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Oh, no, you don't have to save. They'll take it right out of your paycheck before it ever gets into your hands.
Lets hear it for withholding provisions!
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
http://www.economist.com/vote2008/
No one said they were perfect. But they're a damn sight better trained and probably far more determined than some white trash redneck klansman.
Sure there is. If an man works hard, save his money, and starts generating large volumes of income off his investments, he earned. He wasn't out there buying flashy cars, big screen TVs and large houses he couldn't afford, he was saving. The Democrats don't understand that taxing the wealthy even more will just lead to the wealthy taking smaller taxable incomes and they'll put there money else where. It won't change anything. Promoting spending instead of savings....now that will help the poor. Go Dems!!!
While we as a country cannot agree on many things, we finally came together on this one. The amount of Tina Fey in the world is limited. While the experts cannot agree whether Peak Tina Fey has already been reached, with movies, tv, and commercials we must be close. In this election a vote for McCain was a vote for four years of Fey only doing Palin impersonations. Now some say we could clone our way out of the problem, but putting aside the moral questions even if we could clone her today it would be twenty years or more before the clones began producing anything and we don't have that kind of time. So Americans spoke and said no to squandering our limited Tina Fey resources.
Sorry to say, but I truly doubt that there will ever be any threat to the Reps or Dems from third parties, as they control the entire game. From the rules on establishing a 3rd party to drawing the district lines every thing is gear to keeping the big 2 in power and every decade it gets slanted to keeping in power the side that was in power during the census.
For example, Texas officially had 15 candidates for president on the ballot, the catch is 13 of those you had to write in (oh by the way, you can't write in anyone not on the official list).
So at best in Texas, we see Republicans, Democrats and occasionally, Liberterians and Independents.
The leader of the Socialist Party in the US was interviewed at some point during the 20th century. He was asked why he had quit running for President. His answer? The two major parties had embraced most of his ideals, so he thought it was no longer necessary. The story may or may not be true; but it certainly rings true. I always remember that when I was learning about these things in my teens, being taught that neither the USSR nor the US is pure in their ideology. There was some minor capitalism allowed in the USSR (private garden plots were allowed, in particular) but the real shocker was being taught that the US actually has a "mixed socialist-capitalist economy". To hear the S-word associated with us just seemed bizarre; but when you broke it down intellectually it was obviously true. We had social security, food stamps, etc. and this was even after the deregulation. Prior to that, the airlines, for example, were regulated down to what kind of food they could serve! I don't think anyone, even Obama, will take us back to that kind of regulation. People wouldn't put up with it, and at that point in history the Right had a point about excessive regulation--it's just that they ran too far with some things.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
It's called consensus. You might as well say that it's a choice between the anti-slavery party and the other anti-slavery party, or between the pro-Social Security party and the other pro-Social Security party. If you're far, far down the spectrum in either direction, you'll see the two parties to be interchangeable; libertarians think they're both statist, racists think they're both for the destruction of the sweet sweet white race, fundies think they're both secularists, and so on.
It's a plurality-wins system. Third parties cannot gain power on a one-axis political spectrum, because if a constituency is split, it loses. Spoiler candidates, Nader in 2000, that sort of thing, remember? It's a structural problem with the system of government.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
I used to think that way, and helped with the Nader campaign in 2000. When Bush won, my thought was "This guy is going to be just like Clinton, or pretty close anyway."
Damn was I wrong. Apparently the Republican administration viewed every international issue as a problem to be solved by bomb-bomb-bombing. Clinton generally avoided international confligrations. I was furious when Clinton compromised down to Don't Ask - Don't Tell, but Bush's push for a homophobic constitution has that beat. Don't get me started on relative deficit levels, the Axis-of-evil and amazing bungling of international relations, and two major crisis which he had been warned about and failed to act upon. Also, having to jam shampoo into 3oz containers to get onto a plane is weak and pointless.
To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure any 3rd party candidate is right for now. A Libertarian "hands off" approach would simply facilitate the economy imploding further. A Green Party candidate would never be able to stomach the smoke stacks required to get us moving again. And things aren't yet bad enough to start setting fire to buildings.
The ______ Agenda
You could have just done a write in.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
'Basically agrees'? He's saying Obama is going to create a socialist society in the US, and I am saying he already lives in one. I guess that's not really true, it's socialism directed towards corporations and the top 1%, which is really nationalism, but the point remains the same.
Dunno what the point about liberty means. We could argue about definitions, but any time you live in a society you give up certain rights in exchange for the benefits. Where you draw the line about who is growing liberty versus taking it away is a matter of perspective. Personally, I believe true liberty is realized when people are free from the ravages of nature.
M
All I can say is it's time to stock up on non-perishables and start learning how to grow your own food and obtain clean water. It won't be long now. I won't mention the other items you should stock up on in order to maintain your supply of the items mentioned.
That "agree with me or else" attitude is by no means unique to the 'pubs. It's a characteristic of almost anyone with a "party" affiliation IME>
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
I actually dislike twisted applications of peoples' faith and politics, and furthermore want no part of this discussion, heh. But I know the logical response when any theistic system is confronted with your reduction to "omnipotent or impotent?". That question assumes that their deity is only motivated to make everything perfect. It usually boils down to the God or gods or whatever not wanting a world of 'mindless robot people' and, accordingly, leaving us free to screw it up (even by very circuitous or elaborate means like drunk airline pilots and corrupt politicians).
Stevens has done well by Alaska. It reminds me of when the Mayor of Nice had taken an emergency flight to Paraguay ahead of the fraud police, and I was talking about it to a taxi driver on my way in from the airport. He said "C'est un vieil escroc, mais c'est notre vieil escroc a nous" ("He's an old crook, but he's our old crook." Same with Stevens. If you keep supplying people with pork, people won't worry if some of it falls into your barrel as well.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
God, I wish I could mod you up over fucking 9000.
Hopefully the new administration won't have the hubris to confuse "morally justified" with "good idea" as frequently as the previous.
I've formed the impression that President-elect Obama is willing to reason about hard problems with others before locking in the policy. This is an important stylistic difference from GB, who developed an international reputation for pushing predetermined outcomes.
People can, and will, say what they want. I couldn't bring myself to vote for either of those sons of bitches. But, politics aside, to see a black man elected to the presidency of the United States is a major historic milestone that hasn't been seen since the first Apollo moon landing. It's that big, and if you think otherwise, you are a fool. Children from this point will just read about it in history books, but we saw it happen. Too bad it didn't happen with someone that I believe would be good for the country, and that makes it somewhat bitter sweet.
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
Prop 8 is passing. As we mark one positive change in civil rights, we throw another one down the well. It'll be another generation before enough homophobes die out to make civil rights something that applies to sexual orientation as well as race and gender.
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
Here in France, McCain is a well known brand of fried potatoes... :)
For this (and for some other more-real reasons), we enjoy your choice guys.
Vive l'Amérique.
> Will change mean that slavery is now something
> that can finally be put to bed 145 years after
> it ended?
Slavery became unconstitutional in the USA in 1865 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution).
Hereditary chattel slavery was pretty well abolished in the USA at that time.
Government-supported slavery of a very brutal sort, involving tens of thousands of people, almost all of them black men, in chains doing hard and often fatal work, particularly in coal mines, continued until the 1940s, after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. At that point the federal government, which had deliberately ignored the practice for decades, decided that the Germans and Japanese would use it in propaganda, and therefore it must end. Check out Slavery by Another Name (http://www.slaverybyanothername.com/), by Douglas Blackmon, Atlanta Bureau Chief of the Wall Street Journal.
Mike O'Donnell http://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~odonnell/
Change is BAD!
DJIA is down this morning, so Obama must be ruining the economy, clearly.
Oh, please. King scared the hell out of white people because he questioned the assumption that we lived in a just and fair nation. White folks said the same things about King when he was alive that they're saying about Wright now, and for the same reasons--because they're offensive to the assumptions that white people are privileged enough to hold.
There's something especially grotesque about King's corpse being exhumed by his critics and paraded around as though he'd support them. The man was a socialist, for crying out loud.
"Ebil", though, that's... wow. Stay classy, there.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
And Palin doesn't scare you!? McCain has a few heartbeats left, and I just don't see Palin really making her own decisions, she'll get played more than Bush. Believe me I'm more conservative in normal circumstances, when it comes to any type of regulation, size of government, taxes, etc. But neo-conservative is not the same as conservative. I guess you could see voting for a 3rd party is the same as throwing a vote away, but if that was the case voting against Obama was pretty much a waste of time as well. He had this won months ago.
Whoever ran as a Democrat had this won months ago.
Also, 2008 has 2 months left and that's all Bush.
What an arse you are.
Your sort created the situation in Iraq and Afghanistan - a situation that isn't sustainable without the presence of foreign troops, ever.
I bet you like Israel too, you twat - it's the terrorist cancer eating the life out of the region, but 'islamists' are obviously far more scary in your mind than expansionist terrorist Zionists.
One swallow does not a fellatrix make
Yeah, but you are also forgetting one thing? How much HIGHER would Obama's percentages be among white voters had he not been black, or supposedly muslim? Tons of white folks voted AGAINST him for no reason but skin color or perceived religion
Furthermore, you can't necessarily say it's racism. Maybe black people just really felt that Obama identified with their needs? You can find that type of pattern in many other things. For instance, look how much higher Obama's support was in major urban/suburban areas? In Florida, he barely took the vote, but in Miami, Tampa and Orlando he dominated, . North Carolina is essentially a tie, but in Raleigh, Winston-Salem, and Charlotte he dominated. Does that mean that city folk are reverse racists against white? Or that country folk are racist against blacks?
Did you know, that once FDR took office, he used the War Powers Act as a reason to confiscate all gold in the USA?
Economic crisis + War in Iraqistan = ?? Confiscation of gold?
Prejudice is not race-ISM. Race-ISM is an institutionalized and systematic suppression and dis-enfranchisement of a specific racial/ethnic community - usually backed with state sanction, but not always so.
State support of racism is usually needed when the oppressed are in the majority - Like Aparthied South Africa or contemporary Israel. The need for state sponsorship of institutionalized racism was strong in the American south at the time of reconstruction.
As the US has internalized most of its racism in other, more subtle, cultural and psychological manifestations, the need for a racist state has receded. Racism is rampant, nonetheless - as is reckless racial prejudice.
It's all bullshit. You love everyone, or you are in some degree a devil on legs.
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
Until Obama won the Iowa caucus, all the black people were backing Hillary Clinton anyway. They're not racists, they're just Democrats.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
I hope Obama does good. The biggest burden on him right now is that alot of people are looking up to him to change things immediately. When he fails to accomplish this gargantuan task then people will dub him as 'failed'. In actuality becoming the first African American president is an achievement itself. On a lighter note I wonder how long it will take for Firefox spell checker to acknowledge Obama not as a mistype.
What a stupid post. Oh I guess you believed the rhetoric that when Obama's elected, people are gonna come and collect all your guns up and melt them down. I guess he's a closet Muslim too, right? Why don't you read his official stance on gun ownership and sportsmanship. Or did you already have Sean Hannity read it to you?
Yeah years from now someone needs to ask Obama what he was doing when Rogerborg was writing joystick handling code on a Ubuntu install running under VMware.
Well if we are moving to the middle east, do we get cheap gas?
Why didn't you vote for one of the candidates he endorsed?
You could argue that a lot of the white voters voted for McCain because he's white.
Your comment is so ill-conceived it's hard to know where to start.
What about the white voters who voted against Obama because of his race? If they had voted with their demographic on other issues, Obama still wins.
Does anyone apart from dumb fuck rednecks like you care?
One swallow does not a fellatrix make
Seriously. Hearing what the French think could be worth a point or two to the Republican candidate.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
Yes, there is something off the top of my head that Barry could do to get my respect for his presidency. When it comes time to pick his press secretary select any of the following Don Rickles Jackie Mason Triumph the Insult Comic Dog
Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
According to various sources 95% of the american blacks vote for obama.
95% is a percentage similar to those you can archieve in "free" elections in CUBA, CHINA, Saddam's IRAQ and several other democratic nations.
Is this a step forward for america?
Uh, the election isn't decided by popular vote. So you'd have to take your numbers and determine how it would have affected each state.
Even if you're right about the popular vote I think Obama would have still won the electoral college.
You also fail to compensate for the white people who voted for McCain based on race.
Developers: We can use your help.
"Do you remember where you were when Obama was elected?"
In the basement on the couch in my boxers drinking a beer.
Truly a great moment.
Erm...
"A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire
No killin' what can't be killed... You can't see the eyes of the demon...until he come callin'
Has there ever been a society in the history of the earth, where a once slave class later produced an elected leader?
Roman Empire. And It didn't last long afterwards.
Try crunching those numbers by income instead of skin color and see what comes out.
The determined Real Programmer can write Fortran programs in any language.
You're dead right, it is a bi-partisan failure, and its even deeper than simply "underhand and vile financial instruments". Looking at just the subprime issue, how did this came about? Why did this lending happen? The surface reason is that the banks were able to make money by making those mortgage deals and offload the risks (supposedly) through securitisation. the underhand instruments you mention. Perhaps this would have worked if house prices kept going up...
This is only half the story though, the deeper one being, what are unemployed and poor people doing taking out mortgages in the first place? Had there been some kind of provision of adequate social housing to those people, directly from the state or some other mechanism, there would have been no need for them to be buying houses. More broadly, what the privitisation of essential services, housing, medicine, education is doing is giving people no option but to make use of the credit system. Not to be entrepreneurial, take risks and freely enter into business, which is the upside of capitalism, but simply to support a decent standard of living. I don't know the figures but 700 billion would have provided a lot of social housing, big boost to the economy too, you can't offshore a roofer. Instead we're spending it to prop up the system and ideology that drove us to this point. Sad.
Matt
Who's with me?! I SAID... WHO'S WITH ME!!??
I was playing WoW and trying to ignore all the political clap-trap. Big surprise there.
Indeed, and if Ron Paul was a major candidate, the US would have the choice between the capitalist party, the capitalist party, and the capitalist party. oh wait ...
Parent post is hilarious.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Great point this is:
The Democrats will still pass legislation that favours big businesses, just a different group of businesses.
And even greater is this:
most Republicans are not neoconservative and many Republicans found the neoconservatives to be embarrassing.
I would upgrade from embarrassing to annoyingly evil.
-- $G
I'm glad I read slashdot so I can learn about things like this.
John McCain should have won the election.
If John McCain should have won the election, John McCain would have won the election.
My question would be, why didn't 95% of whites vote for Obama?
Anti-black racism in the white American community is ugly.
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
If people really wanted change they wouldn't have fallen into the same old two party system. Having an independent in the office would've been true change. However, I guess charisma and popularity wins out over rationalism and logic any day when the full mass of people is concerned.
Details man, details. what programming language?
If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
I found it. It's an Ad-Hoc fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
Any life is made up of a single moment, the moment in which a man finds out, once and for all, who he is.
With the world in financial crisis, two wars, and our civil liberties gone down the tubes, isn't it time for a charismatic leader with dreams rather than Joe from accounting?
So long as it isn't "Joe the Plumber" where Obama would simply want to squash your dreams and redistribute your wealth once you have worked hard enough to make it that far. Then, to top it off because you questioned him, investigate you to no end and try to ruin your life...
1 - congrats on winning your country back from extremism
2 - congrats on proving that the so called 'american dream' is real, and possible
3 - congrats on seeing through all the mudslinging and dirty politics that was employed by a party, and select the better of the candidates
4 - congrats on shattering the race barrier
5 - congrats on making your choice for being an equal member of the nations of earth, instead of the arrogance of the last 8 years
And welcome back to the world.
Read radical news here
Anti-white racism in the African-American community is ugly.
Maybe. But it sure is delicious!
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Half the country standing in direct contrast to the other. We're no more united than ever and Obama hardly waged a campaign on unity.
The truth is that the economic crisis happened because the financial markets found new ways to be greedy that no one understood.
It wasn't even a new way to be greedy, we just forgot what was learned in the great depression: that it's a bad idea to allow commercial banks to underwrite securities. There were many contributors that helped cause the current economic troubles, but certainly one of the most important was the gradual erosion of Glass-Steagal.
"GET OVER IT."
And look at it this way. If you are sick of Anti-white racism in the African-American community, then I say you just won a tremendous victory!
The fact is, Obama is more or less the picture perfect image of a black man that white people don't fear. He maintains most all of his cultural identity and yet he is respectful, respectable, speaks well, is very intelligent and doesn't speak in rhymes. Obama is no dumb-ass.
And why is this a tremendous victory for you? Simple. What you likely hate the most is the rhetoric and the guilt and shame imposed on you because you were born a white male. Well guess what, now that we elected a black man for president, there is a LOT less they can say... there is a black man in the highest office. What else do they have to complain about that could be valid? When Obama fails to dish out the welfare, what are they going to say now? "Sell-out?" (maybe...)
through shear luck
I think you mean, "sheer luck."
Mike O'Donnell http://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~odonnell/
KILL WHITEY!
-Black Sheep
You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
Ummm....African-Americans have been voting Democrat at about a 90% clip in recent history. Kerry and Gore are fairly white, if I recall correctly.
The most important thing to do in your life is to not interfere with somebody else's life. -FZ
Uh the entire Black community (99.5%) are Christians. The entire Catholic community are Democrats. You can tell because the ban on Gay marriage came back in California.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
Oh, absolutely. It's just that you seem to have an abundance of white trash redneck klansmen. I guess it will come down to quality versus quantity.
Obama Wins. Flawless Victory!!!
Yep, and they didn't attack in 2001 because GWB had so much more experience than Clinton or Obama. The reason they haven't attacked again is because they don't have to. American has done enough damage to itself and its economy that Al Queda can sit back laughing their asses off and phoning in a few threats each year while the US has most of its forces in the wrong damn country.
As for throwing Iraq into chaos, do you know who the most effective leader at keeping Al Queda out of Iraq was? Saddam Hussein. The man was such an evil prick that bin Laden stayed away from him. We executed the right man there. Mission Accomplished!
I thought McCain was eloquent, conciliatory, and most importantly classy in his concession. The man showed a depth of character that I recalled from the 2000 elections, and that unfortunately had not really been displayed through this campaign season. Makes me wonder, if he had displayed the same insight and eloquence prior to last night, could he have won? (Disregarding Palin, party-line, and the other albatross he hung around his neck, of course.)
Confidentiality, Integrity, Availability: without Availability the other two are assured, as is Bankruptcy.
Funny notion:
If the majority of the US citizens want Sharia law, a true democracy will implement it :)
This is the sig that says NI (again)
Glass-Steagall (spell it right, people!) is a scapegoat. The situation is far more complex than that. Did weakening that bill have an impact? Absolutely. But it was only part of the problem. The real problem was the excessive greed and risk aversion in the financial market that lead to the creation of new financial instruments to sneakily make risk everyone else's problem. CDSes would have happened regardless of Glass-Steagall, and banks would have found alternative methods of making their financial risks someone else's problem.
There's a fairly good take on this issue here: http://www.bapcha.com/?p=53
The Glass-Steagall act probably should be reinstated, but moreover we should kick the greedy bastards out of Wall Street and replace them with the more conservative financial leaders who were slowly pushed out by the instant-gratification morons.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
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Don't underestimate the Secret Service. These guys are elite-trained for the job.
Don't underestimate crazy people. The President is the hardest man in the world (excluding Bin Laden) to get to. However, what keeps the President truly safe is the average person's fear of reprisal for an assassination attempt. One crazy idiot who feels he/she has nothing to lose or that they have a responsibility to the world could pull it off. No one will ever getting away with a Presidential assassination (CIA excluded), but pulling one off is possible. Our troops in IRAQ are a highly trained bunch. Does that stop suicidal idiots from killing them and thousands of Iraqis? NO.
Don't get me wrong. I would NEVER advocate such an act, but I fear that the likelihood of an attempt is high. The effects would stretch well beyond the inevitable race riots and would devastate this nation. Barack Obama may do everything in his power to ruin the US in the name of socialism, but nothing he could do would be as horrible as the effects of his assassination.
Prdecition 5: Hello Mega Government and Goodbye Bill of Rights
Bzzt, that has been done by bush & his goons
sorry, try again, you troll !
To see what things are like for the US a year from now, when everyone comes back to reality and realizes Obama was just another man and couldn't, realistically, make the changes he hinted at, after all the expectations are way to high for him. Either way he will be the most watch president and will have to walk such a fine line.
I have been in London on business over the past two weeks. As a man with a very California look, and a very American accent, I clearly stand out. For the most part, everyone I've talked to has been very comfortable, and very friendly with me.
I did though, have a chance to speak to an English customs officer as I attempted to re-enter the country aboard the Eurostar. After requesting that I filled out another of the European visitors, I had a chance to ask her what she thought of Americans. I said that I heard we had a bad reputation, but that I was trying to do my part to improve it.
Her response was: "Well, the reputation is well earned." She smiled. "And you are doing your part. You seem really nice."
You're talking about a lady who sees Americans coming back and forth every day across the boarder.
Fact is, it's easy to write off other people's attitudes towards yourself. But usually, if you have a bad reputation, you've done something to earn it. And ultimately, it's well and good to believe we're the strongest nation on earth, but we aren't. And right now, our position in the world is rapidly declining. When you need the help of friends, it's good to have them.
Before we get hysterical boasting or blaming from either camp (after all, this is /.)....
McCain and Obama each represented competent, thoughtful, but philosophically different choices for the US voter.
Each is human and each made some errors. (For example, McCain in his choice of Palin and association in the Keating 5 Scandal and Obama in some of his past associations.) In general, most voters in both parties surveyed dismissed focusing on these mistakes as silliness.
Each presented sufficient life experiences and public interpretation of those experiences to convince more than half of the country that either would be at least a decent president. (That is why in the US, supporters of losing candidates rarely leave the country or react with violence of any kind.)
However, each represented very different approaches to resolving domestic issues. This at a when many voters felt their retirement accounts decimated; the income of those employed flat for a decade; and the job opportunities for the unemployed to be bleak.
John McCain has a long and honorable career of representing the school of thought that in the long run, less government intervention will increase prosperity for all. Considering Katrina and the retirement account melt-down, Obama represents the old FDR response to the 1930's Great Depression that "people don't eat in the long run," and so must have faith in the net good of government aid, government intervention, and taxes to fund such an approach.
There are some conservatives who will argue that too MUCH regulation caused the current financial crisis by laws mandating "community lending" to those who couldn't afford to borrow, resulting in massive defaults and systemic risk. Whether or not this proves to be true, not enough voters were convinced that even less regulation (and less taxes) are the solution.
During my lifetime, I have seen some politicians who after careers of vocal viciousness retired from politics to practice law with their opponents. (New York's Senator Al D'Amato (wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senator_Pothole) is my favorite example.) Don't be surprised if John McCain winds up either in a multi-party law firm or runs Veterans' Affairs in an Obama administration. (In either case the extreme vitriol of partisans from either party look silly in the long run.)
At the same time, expecting Obama to succeed in addressing every situation is a recipe for failure. George Bush did not anticipate 9/11 or Katrina or the financial system meltdown. He did the best he could with the tools he had. Who knows what campaign promises Obama will have to break when walking into an administration where troops are fatigued and the budget deficit is almost beyond comprehension?
It is time to return to topics of the most impact to Slash Dot readers such as Net Neutrality and the next release of Duke Nukem. (Time for an Open Source browser-based version?)
Live Long and Prosper - Thanks Leonard. You are missed.
You would be correct about the Jews not voting for Hitler. However, not much of anyone voted for Hitler. He was appointed Vice Chancellor and seized power when President Hindenburg died in office by cleverly manipulating the elections of parliamentary members to ensure a NSDAP stronghold. He then got the parliament to pass a law giving the cabinet legislative powers.
I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
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The US is so right-wing-conservative that a self called "internationalist, socially leftist" can be so to the right! I hope Obama is a step towards fixing that for them...
McCain voter points out that electing the first black president will be positive for race relations and gets modded Troll????
Riiiiiight.
Um. Last I knew forced wealth redistribution by the government actually IS socialist.
the kind that people decades from now will remember and ask each other "Do you remember where you were when Obama was elected?"
I was sitting on my couch, pecking away at my laptop. While watching the polls, I wrote an Android app that displays The Bill of Rights. I'll be adding The Declaration, The Constitution, and the remaining amendments. It's under apps/reference, called "We The People", and it will always be free.
It felt really good. I don't think I've ever been happier with such a tiny bit of code. :)
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
You could argue that a lot of the white voters voted for McCain because he's white.
GASP! How dare you play the race card! Only Republicans are allowed to do that!
i thought about writing more, but what difference would it make now , we have him 4 years, for better or worse.
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
I can definitely understand the will of the people putting Obama into the White House...they voted for change. But what blows me away is that once again an overwhelming majority of Congress was returned to office even though they have something like a dismal nine percent approval rating as a group.
He's only HALF black. He's also half WHITE. The proper term for BHO is "multiracial."
Watching on CNN the sea of people in Chicago cheering for President Elect Obama and his victory speech convinced me that this was one of those unique moments, the kind that people decades from now will remember and ask each other "Do you remember where you were when Obama was elected?" Truly a great moment.
Heck, if we can vote in Reagan, Clinton, both sets of Bushs and actually consider Clinton's wife, why the heck couldn't this guy get 8 years? We are that stupid. My wife utterly hates Obama. I can understand it on her views of the issues. I didn't want either set of the crazies to win, but it was far too late for that.
I'm sorry, but I really hope that his 8 years are boring and non-interesting. I want Obama to have the most forgettable 8 years possible in office when viewed from 50 years down the line.
Fortunately, the US is not a democracy, which is nothing more than mob rule.
Begging for a helping hand with your financial aid. Begging for aid in your wars. Get used to it, even Bush has had to change his tune in the last year as the financial crisis hit harder then the neo-cons ever thought possible.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
I thought an MBS is similar to an insurance policy. The bank purchases an MBS, if the mortgage the bank has fails, the seller of the MBS pays the bank money. True, maybe after the banks started having large numbers of foreclosures, they could no longer find people who wanted to do an MBS with them, and as well CDOs. CDOs basically bundled up some mortgage debt and sold them off to third parties. This would mean banks end up with cash which they can then loan out. After the mortgages began foreclosing, people no longer wanted to buy CDOs. They got burned, the rating system was messed up (mark to market) and valued CDOs at far more than they were worth, and it backfired. banks could no longer sell them so they were no longer able to obtain money from selling them. This contributed to the banks financial mess. It was not that CDOs or MBSs were necessarily bad, but that the underlying mortgages were bad and the real estate market is overvalued, thus it was destined to collapse. CDOs are not really THAT hard to understand. I think its a problem that the media for some reason does not even TRY to explain them and that there is no transparency in the banks so we can see and scrutinise what these institutions are doing.
Fix things so banks are more transparent and that there are stronger rules who to give loans to. We have to find a way to shore up banks and homeowners while home prices fall like a rock. If we implement policies that cause an bubble of home prices again, we will end up with housing people cant afford, bad mortgages or homelessness, a wrecked economy, right back where started. Letting housing prices skyrocket and encourage banks to subsidise this, giving bad mortgages to people who cant afford them supporting the overblown market is really stupid. Letting house prices fall will prevent another round of bad mortgages and at the same time solve the affordability problem. We just have to figure out a way to let them drop, but shore up banks and help homeowners, working things out in a way that revitalises our economy. Really we always hear about how terrible it is that housing prices are low. WTH? In regard to most things, gas, food, etc, if the price goes up, its a bad thing, it means you have a harder time affording things and it hurts the economy since it locks up more money in certain places and pulls money out of other areas of the economy. When will we realise that high cost of housing led to this crisis, high mortgages people couldnt afford, then foreclosures, and people spending so much on housing it is killing the rest of the economy. Republicans and democrats are both responsible, Republicans for lax regulation, democrats for encouraging fannie may and banks to encourage dangerous subprime loaning.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
He was defeated in the 1932 election, but a lot of people did vote for him. If "not much of anyone" had voted for him, we'd probably have never heard of him. It was his broad base of popular support that made him a threat and allowed him to finally seize power.
Caveat Utilitor
to the United Socialist States of America
My rights don't end where your feelings begin.
Will change mean that I am not called a racist if I disagree with Obama?
Of course not! We'll just call you a terrorist.
Will change mean that slavery is now something that can finally be put to bed 145 years after it ended?
Oh hell no! We'll hold a candlelight vigil every year and use it as the platform for our next campaign!
Will change mean that people can have a rabid hatred of Obama as people had of Bush and still be free?
Absolutely, you unamerican, traitorous, bastard!
Will change mean that people with little money will have more money?
You want MONEY?! Get out there and earn it! How dare you just expect money!
With change my conservative values will that make me a target of hate?
America. Love it or leave it!!!
Will change mean the majority be sensitive to my beliefs and values?
You're not a godless babykiller are you?
Will change mean nothing has really changed but people are now happy Europe is not mad at us any more?
Screw those arrogant bastards, we don't need them!
Will change mean that our troops will be not be forgotten.
NEVER! They make for great campaign fodder and magnetic ribbons! We'll make a meme out of it that secretly means "Support us or you're not a real American!"
Will change mean that government will not take over our 401k, healthcare, car payments, house payments, freedom?
Freedom? You have plenty of that! As long as we can tap your phone lines and tell you who you can and cannot marry.
Will change mean that Obama will campaign for change in 2012?
Nope. We'll "Stay the Course!"
Change is all well and good but what does change mean. It can mean a lot of things to a lot of people but now the work has to begin words are not enough by any person any where. While people disagree with any election we still have the only country in the world that can transition peaceably from power to power every 4 years if need be. We still have a document that no other country in the world dares to implement because it gives the freedom to the people and not those that run the government.
Change means that everything I just stated above was in jest.
"Who modded this informative? Whoever it is must've been smokin' some of that martian pot!"
Can you put up a Seriously worthy third-party candidate? I can't. And neither can the Green or independent parties.
Do not read this
Slashdot will stop running political articles. That is about the unnerdliest topic I can think of and so out of place on slashdot. I'm sick of seeing them when I want to read about technical news.
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
About the only positive thing I see coming out of this is that the Dhimmicreeps now get to clean up the economic mess they largely created and don't give me any Glass-Steagall BS as a root cause. And-uh they'll have to do it without a super majority in the Senate.
Palin doesn't scare me because congress is predominantly democrat. If McCain had won, then very few bills would be able to get through. I see this as a positive thing.
What really scares me is this morning I heard our (Oklahoma) senator speaking about how congress wants to tax 401k in our state and Texas $3,000 because of our energy consumption. Apparently, congress has forgotten that Texas and Oklahoma are energy producing states.
I'm also worried about the increased tax on the wealthy. You know, the people who earn more than $300k, uh $250k, that is $200k, I mean $150k, yes $97k. Not that I make that much, but it doesn't take a genius to see that this number is soon going to slide even further. My guess is it will stop at about $35k. So I am going to be taxed more heavily and I will have to take on a fourth job in order to maintain the same standard of living.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Not voting Obama does not necessarily indicate racism. Where I work, I could have told you at least 5 of my coworkers were going to vote Republican before the primaries started, regardless if "the black guy", "the white guy", or "the manly chick" had won the Democrats primary.
I *did* however vote Obama (but my views are a lot more left-leaning than about half the people I wokr with [the Democratic party's tendency to push gun control makes them not well received by this group]).
Do you consider any black person who didn't vote for McCain to be racist, or any man that didn't vote for McCain to be sexist (due to Palin)?
Every time I hear people throw out the 'S' word, I cry a little inside. The democrats are NOT liberal. They are at best moderate. Opposing one of the most conservative parties in the country would only make them liberal in a monochrome world.
Democrats and Obama are the party of the center.
Go to England, France, or pretty much any other socially progressive country for a comparison. Ask where they place him in the scheme of things, and you're likely to hear "he's a moderate." Then compare that country to a socialist nation, such as it existed in communist Russia, (where government service socializes YOU.)
Seriously.
Newsflash: He didn't say obama didn't do that stuff. He said your marvelous republicans did the same too.
Why does it seem that every time someone tries to point out hypocrisy someone always has to jump in and say "Obama did the same...blah blah blah". THAT'S NOT THE FUCKING POINT!!!!
We've seen this type of thing over and over again. Like the bridge too nowhere. McCain made this big case about how him and Palin proved they'll cut out the fat. Then someone point out "ummm...Palin....Bridge to Nowhere???" and everyone was "oh, but Obama voted for it too". Don't you get it? Obama wasn't the one running around talking himself up about how voted against all these pork barrel projects.
I am not without sin. I fully admit that. When someone else goes around talking about how sin-free they are, and I call them on their BS, telling me "but you are a sinner too" is NOT a valid defense.
Let me be the first to point out (as an Obama supporter) that John McCain decided to take what may well be his final bow on the national political stage with class, decency, and style. That he would get up there and say "I wish godspeed to the man who was my former opponent and will be my president" suggests that he might well have listened to the better angels of his own heart.
Yes, I thought it was a very gracious concession speech.
It reminded me of the old McCain, the one before he abandoned his dignity in order to get the nomination.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
If I had mod points, I'd totally mod the parent flamebait just to spite him.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
I was sitting on my couch, playing through the second quest of Legend of Zelda on an NES emulator, while waiting for my laundry to finish.
(...with my "Yes, I Voted Today!" sticker on my lapel, and in between refreshes of reddit for election news.)
- David Stein
Computer over. Virus = very yes.
President Obama can give real Hope to all Americans and for other countries too!
Just imagine what will be like NOT to have a Bush like president in the office.
I hope for more peace, economic stability and low prices in Oil.
What do you hope for?
Get my e-mail after a captcha test in: http://tinymailt
I would have hoped that the American people would be smart enough to know that the crisis was a bi-partisan failure. From Credit Default Swaps passing the Senate as a rider 98-0, to the Bush Administration sounding the alarm in 2003 but being ignored, to Barney Frank famously telling the House Republicans that there is nothing wrong with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (and getting the backing of House Democrats), to the Republicans blocking the Fannie/Freddie bill once it reached the Senate, there is plenty of blame to spread around.
This is exactly why I voted against every incumbent in every race. In uncontested races, I wrote in an alternate. The present government is incompetent, and no matter who was running against the incumbents, they couldn't be worse than what we have now.
Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
just because you heard it on fox news doesn't mean it's incorrect.
That's true. What it means is that you shouldn't believe it until you hear it confirmed from a reliable source.
I'm still waiting for Fox to apologize for their "we never landed on the moon! It's all a hoax" TV show, and their "Here's a film of how the Army autopsied a dead space alien in Roswell NM" show.
When they apologize for those, I'll think about paying attention to them.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
Actually more people said McCain's age was a factor than said Obama's race was a factor.
Until Obama won the Iowa caucus, all the black people were backing Hillary Clinton anyway. They're not racists, they're just Democrats.
Excellent point. I'm not sure how accurate it is as stated, but its converse is definitely true:
There is something wrong about the Republican Party that it has so little support among blacks and other ethnic groups.
Ok, can you make an argument or comment rather than being profane and belligerent? This was a serious question. If there IS a problem that has been swept under the rug, this is a BIG constitutional issue. Or, does anyone apart from us rednecks care about the Constitution of the US? Seriously.
Logic is the beginning of reason, not the end of it.
To finally have hope again. 8 years is a long time to watch your country fall to pieces. It is such a weight off to be able to have someone I can put my faith into again.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
I've always looked towards the US as Canada's big brother -- the glamorous one that's great at sports, has a better salary, but a bit arrogant too. However, over the last eight years, it's like finding out your older brother has a gambling problem, cheats on his girlfriend, and bullies kids around at school.
Now I know things aren't going to change overnight, but you've made a huge step in the right direction, America, and it's good to see you come around.
body massage!
I see that Hugo Chavez's investment paid off.
You lost, get over it.
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Mussolini
Hahahahahaha, wow. People like you are really out there. Amazing.
Or are you trolling, gotta be, surely....
Who's with me?! I SAID... WHO'S WITH ME!!??
Only when Ron Paul drops out will I believe this election is over.
I didn't say Glass-Steagall was the only cause, but it did contribute to the problems so calling it a scapegoat is misleading. So you want to remove the greedy people from wall street? Good luck with that! If there are ways to make money and avoid risk without breaking the law, people will find them. Everyone is greedy to a certain point, that's what makes the free market work. But it also has to be restricted to prevent some people from messing it up for everyone else.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/04/opinion/04tue1.html?_r=1&em&oref=slogin
NYT editorial, so take grains of salt depending on your political slant, but...
Yeesh.
ceci n'est pas un sig.
That was the case with me certainly, I didn't really have anything against McCain, but the thought of Palin in any position of power is about as scary as I could imagine.
the kind that people decades from now will remember and ask each other "Do you remember where you were when Obama was elected?"
I had been watching TV for over an hour, waiting to see if Obama would get those last electoral votes, not realizing that both parties had already assumed he'd take California.
So it's rather appropriate that when someone asks me, "What were you doing when Obama was elected?" I can answer that I, just like the entire Democratic party, got tired of listening to FOX News and went to take out the trash.
You can't blame systemic failure on individuals. If the system stays the same, sooner or later other like-minded individuals will abuse it again.
You can punish individuals who abused the system, but you also need to rejig the system, lest it be abused again.
So you should revamp the system, and, maybe also punish whoever designed it the first time around, if not for criminal conducted, at least for incompetence.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
And by the same token, don't the rich people make their wealth based on the infrastructure of our country? Don't they need the roads, rails, or airlines to transport their good that they sell to make themselves rich? Don't they use our communications infrastructure to make their business deals? Don't they use our patent system to file their patents, and then our court systems when their competitors violate said patents? Don't they use our law enforcement and military to ensure the security of their possessions from people (both domestic and international) who would be more than happy to take it (or destory it) if it were unprotected?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I think you have it backwards. Mortgage Backed Securities are securities that are composed of Mortgages. They reduce risk carried by banks because they make the failure of Mortgages someone else's problem in the same way that selling stocks makes the fluctuating value of those stocks someone else's problem. The only difference is that the value of Mortgage Backed Securities fluctuates based on the payment of the mortgages rather than the strength of a company. Obviously a bank makes less money off of MBSes than holding the mortgages directly, but they also are exposed to less risk.
Credit Default Swaps/Options (CDS/CDO) are a financial instrument that act as an insurance policy that is not technically an insurance policy. If my securities fail for whatever reason, the swaps will cover the cost of the "default".
What's messed up about CDS/CDO instruments is that you don't need to own any actual securities to obtain the instrument. I owned nothing from Lehman Brothers, but I could still take out a CDS on that company. (Ostensibly to protect indirect assets like a fail on a lease due to tough financial circumstances.) That made them very dangerous. The fact that they were basically unregulated insurance policies made them even more dangerous. The fact that CDSes were not reevaluated after being sold (thus making them ripe for resale at a higher rate) made them near-deadly. The fact that many sub-prime mortgages were being rated as AAA securities while banks took out CDS instruments to protect against the possible failure of MBSes made CDSes the perfect storm necessary to collapse the financial market.
And that's STILL a simplified view of what happened. :-/
P.S. Guess which three letter insurance company all those CDSes folded up to? If you said "AIG", you win.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
You could have just done a write in.
The voting machine did not like the squigley lines.
How amazed would you be to suddenly find that you just forgot what I wrote and you needed to reread my post.... again.
Your comment is so ill-conceived it's hard to know where to start.
What about the white voters who voted against Obama because of his race? If they had voted with their demographic on other issues, Obama still wins.
There doesn't seem to be any evidence of that. According to PBS's exit polls, the people that sited race as a factor in their voting decision leaned toward Obama. So, if anything, the few white voters that may have voted against Obama because he was black was more than offset by the number of white voters siding *with* Obama because he was black.
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
I love these rebound elections. Just because the last candidate sucked, everyone runs to the opposite side regardless. The next one will likely be similar, if they allow us to vote from the political re-education camps that is. -ROS
My question would be, why didn't 95% of whites vote for Obama?
Anti-black racism in the white American community is ugly.
The African-American population has traditionally voted 85%-90% with the Democrats. Clinton, Gore and Kerry carried similar numbers. In the primaries, Obama was initially losing to Clinton 60-40 with this group.
There may an insignificant number of people voting for him because of his race, just as there are people who voted against him for the opposite reason.
Bingo! This was, in fact, the reason which convinced me to vote Obama instead of third party. Obama/McCain are more similar than different. Obama's main distinguishing trait is that he speaks well and differently. But Palin is dangerously incompetent and naive and should not be allowed anywhere near the national seat of power. People are talking about her being a strong force in Republican national politics for years to come and this is just plain scary.
If you mod me Overrated, you are admitting that you have no penis.
If 95% of whites didn't vote for Obama he would have lost.
I bet you its a pit bull and her name is Sarah :)
Economy is complex especially when it involves goverment spending.
For instance, the US has no national healthcare because that is expensive. Therefor the US lets the market run healthcare because market forces will keep prices down. Right?
Well, no. In holland 8-9% of the countries total earnings go to healthcare, in the US it is 15-16%. On the whole the US is considered to provide inferior care, despite twice the cost and despite the fact that effectively medical care is denied to those to poor to pay the high insurance premiums.
The problem, and the US is hardly alone is in this, is that explaining how things that benefit everyone, benefit you, is hard. Saying, you are getting 300 bucks in a tax cut is easy. Never mind that the 300 bucks end up being spend in increased bills, people understand cash, they don't understand long term economic planning.
The simple fact is that taxes matter very little in the long run. That 300 bucks is not going to change your life for longer then the week in which you use it to pay your credit card bill. But no free healthcare for the rest of your life is seriously going to bite you, if not you, then your family members who did NOT make it rich and might be coming to you for help.
Ideally, taxes should be seen as the rent you pay for living in a country. Few people would be so stupid as to simply look at the amount of rent when deciding where to life. What you GET for that rent is what matters. If you were asked to spend 10% of your income on a hole in the road or 20% on a palace, what would you pick?
But sadly, this is hard to get people to understand and the neo-con's have every reason to confuse the issue where ever they can. Joe the Plumber anyone?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Yeah... sure. Nevermind that whole "blueprint" thing that he wrote while he was in jail after the Beirhall Putsch.
Genocide of multiple groups was on his agenda from day one.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
They just don't identify as such, and the public doesn't either. I can see this in my own family. Also look at Tiger Woods, only one-quarter black yet the black community sees him as black.
It seems that many blacks themselves have adopted the Jim Crow "one drop of blood" rule, at least when it's convenient.
I was in the middle of killing M'uru when we heard the guild leader's wife over Vent tell him to stop playing that stupid game and come watch Obama's victory speech.
Exactly. That's all you are doing. And we appreciate you sharing that anecdote. As a follow up, I would encourage you now to ponder what it is about John McCain that leaves him weak in connecting with these demographic groups you mention. 18-29 year olds? Do you realize John McCain was 18-29 in 1954-1965?? Rock music wasn't even invented yet when McCain was working hard toward finishing at the bottom of his naval academy class. Black people? McCain is a 72 year old white guy and you are wondering why southern blacks don't feel a strong connection to him? Really? Really?
And to calm your nerves, I'd encourage you to look into the colloquial connotation of the phrase "He's my nigga"- it's much more innocuous than you think; more akin to "That's my Man!" than it is to "I will give this person my vote based solely on the fact that he's black." Matter o' fact, when your presumed interpretation is actually verbalized, it sounds almost silly, doesn't it? Trust me, it's more an off-the-cuff expression of enthusiasm than it is a statement of philosophical underpinnings. I hope you can rest easier now.
-whoa, I'm jones'ing for a sig right about now...
I think the key word is "social democracies" not "socialist democracies". There's a difference.
Well, aside of being severely disappointed in America with fad voting, I wasn't surprised to learn that 80% of the "obama votes" said race was a factor via CNN.
The good news is that after Obama being the far left candidate, it would be hard for Hillary, Gore, or Kerry to make another run on the Presidency. Next election the Dems will have to run chairman mao.
All right, I'll bite - Obama's citizenship is a minor constitutional issue compared to the excesses perpetrated by Bush for the last 8 years - warrantless wiretapping, the effective suspension of habeus corpus, etc.
If you're really that concerned about your constitution, you should be refreshing the tree of liberty with whatever you find available - Bush has around 8 pints, IIRC.
One swallow does not a fellatrix make
By being right-leaning, Fox IS the balance.
But it is still one right-leaning network to several left-leaning ones, so you can rest secure that your leftist propaganda will be pushed on TV more than the rightist propaganda.
"Sacrifice". Obama said it in his victory speech, and I believe McCain also said it in his concession speech. The problems of this country are so massive they can't be solved without each of us giving something to the cause. I'm not talking taxes, although I'm sure that will figure into it. If Obama is going to be successful--and by extension, make the country successful--we're all going to have to embrace the notion of personal sacrifice and service to the country. Think about that before you reflexively complain about what's bound to be unpleasant for many of us. In the words of John McCain: "It's time to put the country first."
Prepare yourselves for four years of austerity. We can't continue as a country where the only people who actively sacrifice for it are the members of the military and their families.
Ok, I already like you 'cos of your name, but now you get a little green blob.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
I am among the "whites" that did vote for Obama because he was a better choice than the GOPs representative. We're tired of the shit-slinging both parties have been engaging in for a very long time. Obama campaigned on a platform of making America BETTER for everyone and not just a select few cronies.
As for the color of his skin, I could care less. Show me someone who wants a better tomorrow and is willing to let everyone participate and I will vote for them.
If "disco" means "I learn" in Latin, does "discothèque" mean "I learn technology"?
Are you sure it wasn't because CNN told you that this would be one of those unique moments, the kind that people decades from now will remember and ask each other "Do you remember where you were when Obama was elected?"
I watched it too (and CNN did say that). But I will remember :)
I concur with that. That was a big reason why i didn't vote for him myself. A good vice president is important too.
My question would be, why didn't 95% of whites vote for Obama?
Because some of them disagreed with his politics?
It's all just a lot of red-tape bullcrap though, don't you think?
Would you like a slice of toast?
For those who have been caught up in the inspirational speeches and promises from President Obama, and for those who recognize the fact that inspiring individuals hasn't solved any problems:
Keep in mind that if he can inspire you and I, it is likely that he can inspire and influence the people around him to make good decisions.
Its the ability to instill confidence and trust in people that lends this position of leadership with any sort of authority and power. Unlike the previous Presidents, whose victories were won with difference in the popular and electoral vote; Obama has been clearly chosen, both popularly and electorally.
I don't think we should have been in Iraq, BUT now that we screwed up the country, shouldn't we FIX IT. I.E. make it a viable self-sustaining country that can take care of itself and it's people? Or, should we just wash our hands of the whole thing, and tell the people of Iraq to just piss off and take care of themselves? I personally would have liked it if we stayed ONLY in Afghanistan until everyone who had a part in 9/11 was found, and tried in an international court. Then, we can go around and see who else is threatening world peace. My preference is to try diplomacy and sanctions, and escalate those as necessary until the offending country chokes or gives up and complies. This should continue until ALL trade, humanitarian aid, finances, banking, etc. are completely cut off by the US and its true allies. Active military action should only be taken if we are attacked, or one of our allies are attacked. Then God help the attackers and their backers. I really like the old saying of "walk softly and carry a big stick". I don't like to start a fight, but I will finish one. Also, I would really like it if the US cut off ALL TRADE AND SUPPORT of ANY kind to any country that is openly wishing our destruction. Why would we support them if they hate us so much? Why would they want our products, food, medicines, etc. anyway? Really, though, Iraq aside, it would be very nice if the US would enter into a stage of isolationism, like before WW I. We should close ALL overseas military bases, and bring ALL US troops home. This includes Europe, Asia, Middle East, etc. They don't want us there, or the extra money our people bring to their economies, or the jobs that the bases provide, so why stay? We should also but back on trade. Our economy is so weak that we need to focus inwards and rebuild, instead of focusing outwards and lowering trade barriers, tariffs, etc. We have the natural resources and labor pool to pull it off.
Logic is the beginning of reason, not the end of it.
On November 4, 2008, America overcame 221 years of division and another barrier came down. America has elected its first African-American president. Born to a mother from Kansas and a father from Kenya, Barrack Obama overcame numerous obstacles just to be nominated to lead our great nation. I come from a racist family. Many are shaking their heads and wondering how a black man could possibly be trusted with the ultimate office. I am praying for President-Elect Obama. The easy part is done. Now the heavy lifting up and healing of this bruised and battered nation must be accomplished. How could any man fulfill such high expectations that the electorate of this great country have invested upon him? No, I did not vote for him. I have not voted for a main party candidate for President since Ronald Reagan. But I swore an oath when I become an Army Officer to defend the constitution. That oath has no expiration date. It is my solemn duty to support our President. And so I look upon this dawning of a new day... A new era for America, with hope that some good may come from all of the troubles that we now face. May God bless the President and the People of the United States of America and of the world.
I don't know what kind of world you live in, but it isn't like the Spainiards and the Francos are trying to blow us up (at least I don't think so)... And if you think who we elect as president will change the opinion of those that actually are thinking about ways of blowing us up, well, I think that teardrop at the bottom of your empty latte cup doesn't qualify as it being half full...
Of course it's always better to have more friends, but no matter what you do, your enemies are usually still your enemies...
It's what they say to disown any black person who has distinguished him or herself, like Powell and Rice. This way they can still claim oppressed status even with blacks achieving some of the highest offices in the country. Meanwhile, those Uncle Toms are out there achieving the American dream just as any of them could have.
I think I get it: They hate success.
Shame? Guilt?
Now, exactly what am I supposed to be feeling guilt or shame for because I was born a white guy? I have no guilt or shame about anything.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
They started talking since the Irish economy took off and the IRA figured they could make more money through real-estate by paying off councilors than through running arms and drugs. It wasn't through some hippy breakthrough with government and terrorists smoking a joint together and proclaiming world peace. At the end of the day money talks. As it did with the US economy providing a radical shift towards Obama, as it did with prudish America not caring about Clinton's indiscretions as long as he kept improving the economy and increasing people's paychecks.
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
I agree. Bush's excesses should be investigated. As well as the members of the Congress and the Supreme Court who allowed it to happen. I strongly disagree with his domestic policies. I strongly disagree with the Congress and Supreme Court that let it happen. The reason we have 3 branches of government is so that things like this don't happen, and ALL 3 BRANCHES were responsible for this. We can't place 100% of this on Bush. He overreacted (as did most of us right after 9/11). But, his primary job is national security. He gets much less blame in my book than Congress and the Supreme Court whose jobs it is to look out for the Constitution and Law.
Logic is the beginning of reason, not the end of it.
The Bible, you say? Is that the one with the dysfunctional family who live atop a mountain, or the one with the zombie carpenter? I get them mixed up sometimes.
Would you like a slice of toast?
Perhaps black folks would vote Republican if the Republican party exorcised its racism. Like it or not, they're the party of white dudes scared as hell that they might not be better than some black dude. While that does well for the scared white dude vote, it doesn't do well for the black vote.
You might consider that black people tend to be surprisingly socially conservative. They'd probably lean Republican, if it weren't for the racism.
You might also consider that Latinos were a solidly Republican constituency in 2004, but were solidly Democratic in 2008, despite being generally socially conservative. (Consider the D/R split in California compared to the split over Prop 8.) You can thank Tom Tancredo, Michelle Malkin and their ilk for that.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
What is? verifying that the president of the US is a natural born citizen? Ok class, what is the historical purpose of this provision of the US Constitution? What were the Founding Fathers thinking when putting this document together?
Logic is the beginning of reason, not the end of it.
You could have just done a squigley in.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
Seriously, dude, Obama is not a socialist, and Bush put an end to more liberties than Obama would ever have any inclination to end.
News flash... socialism has little to do with liberties. I think the word you're looking for is communist, and to the best of my knowledge that one hasn't been flung around since the height of the cold war.
... and in the long term best interest of the US of A would be a refreshing change. Two years of Bush weakened the USA considerably. Unfortunately this also had severe negative effects outside the US. Otherwise who'd care.
What you and others mentioned, but go back to Carter to lay the groundwork by ordering banks to make loans to people who would not normally get loans because they are poor or financially irresponsible. After that every administration, and every congress, built on it with its own mistakes.
Couple it with corporate greed and ACORN pressuring for bad loans even harder, you have a perfect storm that took 30 years to build.
Anti-white racism in the African-American community is ugly.
Yes, but your forgetting something. According to several university policies and many many black in America, Blacks can't be racist. There is no such thing as Black on White racism because they can can't be that way. Only the evil white man can be racist, not black people.
Sarcastic, yes it is but there are people out there that believe that black people can't be racist. So since a majority of the black people voted for O'bama that doesn't make it racist. Bullshit, but there are actually people that believe that.
Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification
My question would be, why didn't 95% of whites vote for Obama?
Anti-black racism in the white American community is ugly.
I didn't vote for Obama because (1) I don't agree with his Iraq policy... what he has of one, anyway and (2) I'm not looking forward to the tax hike I'll take paying for all the government programs he ran his campaign on.
I realize most of the country disagrees with my assessment. I'm ok with that, and we'll all find out together whether or not he'll be a good President. But labeling me a racist just because I didn't get on the Obama hope/change bandwagon?
This election set an historic precedent, but it wasn't about race. For me, anyway. Apparently it was for you.
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/19/8-barack-obama/
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
"Tons of white folks voted AGAINST him for no reason but skin color or perceived religion"
Citation or just shut up. Anecdotal evidence doesn't count.
Congress, both under Republican and Democratic control, didn't care.
nice dude! Here's to four years of uninterrupted prosperity in the area of writing software in virtual machines :)
Biden said he'll be tested and will have to make some tough decisions, and we'll have to trust him because that he's right won't be immediately apparent.
So I'll stand behind him at least as well as Biden and other Democrats stood behind Bush with his tough decisions.
Seriously.
Pretty soon we'll hear about a proposed bailout package for political comedian/satirists. What comedian would want to touch BO and risk naacp, aclu, and 18-29 oprah watcher back-lash? I don't see a comedy script treatment entitled "That's my BO!" making the rounds anytime soon ;^)
Why don't you make things interesting and cite some of the things that make your hair turn white? People here might be able to provide context or insight regarding those choices, or maybe they'll justify your fears. Either way, there's no point repeating talking points (Democratic or Republican). They waste everyone's time.
You're apparently a libertarian. Good on you. If you want to live in a place where the government doesn't take the fruits of your labors, there are plenty of government-free zones around the world. They also tend to be Mad Max-esque nightmares that everyone is desperately trying to escape from, but I'm sure that's a fantastic chance for you to prove that your individual right to bear arms will outgun the local mafia. Bon voyage!
On a slightly less sarcastic note, I find it fucking hilarious that the difference between rugged individualism and the heavy yoke of baleful commie servitude is a four point six percent rise in the marginal tax rate. Oh, hell, I'll just let Ruben Bolling mock you.
Finally, it's funny-sad-but mostly funny that taxes are whined about when they're paid, not when the expenses are incurred. If you have a problem with our finances, your beef is with the guys who just pissed roughly a trillion bucks away halfway 'round the world, not with the killjoy who points out that we all have to pay for that mess now.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
I would suggest that Saturday Night Live running her into the ground (portrayed by Tina Fey) did more to hurt her than most people think. I'm not sure of her true intelligence but SNL sure made her look like an idiot and she was probably seen by more people on there (and via you-tube) than all news clips and debate coverage combined. Very funny though!
Rather accurate, from what I've seen. It's positively frightening to me how many people I spoke to brought up quotes from NSL as though Palin herself had said them. I'm one of the first to admit that Tina Fey nailed the impression but, I think, it was almost too good when I consider the sheer lack of fact checking done by the average American citizen.
You know the thing about UDP jokes? I don't care if you get it or not.
As usually the case, take the opposite of the wingnut viewpoint (and in this case, a highly racist wingnut) and you have reality.
You need to pick your battles- What a pointless hypothetical argument.
love is just extroverted narcissism
Those rights aren't important to him. The only important right to this kind of fellow is the right not to pay taxes while he pretends not to benefit from the infrastructure, from the civilization he resides in. Torture and disappearances happen to other people.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Obama used racial tension to divide and install anger
[Citation needed]
mobilizing the blacks to vote for him because he was black
[Citation needed]
and promised to give them free money
[Citation needed]
He consistently played the race card while McCain avoided the topic
[Citation needed]
Obama used past generations of racism to his advantage
[Citation needed]
And at his acceptance speech, he began to back-peddle on all of his promise
[Citation needed]
King would be appalled at Obama's actions. Obama has create a division that could tear this country apart.
[Citation needed]
Question: does that hood make it harder for you to type?
wish i could mod this up - well said
I'm not American. but if I was, I would have voted for McCain. It's sad to see how your great nation has fallen for bits of leftist propaganda (And yes, I'm talking about "spreading the wealth around", can't take these words back) and unsupported promises of change.
US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
I was on the phone putting more of my savings into gold.
You forgot to add that he's gonna take his legions of Black Panther/ACORN/Bill Ayers stromtroopers and use them to round up ignorant crackers such as yourself and ship them all off to Gitmo.
He's Black.
He's President (Elect).
Get Over It.
In the "Real America" graft is what it is all about. You should be immediately, and summarily, beaten with a "Clue Stick"!
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
OK, well why aren't you calling for the AC's citation about how racist blacks are? Are you just accepting his CNN statistics that black people voted more for Obama? Ok, then from the same page:
White 43% Obama
African-American: 95% Obama
Latino: 66% Obama
Asian: 61% Obams
Other Races: 65% Obama
I don't know about you, but I see an outlying statistic on both extremes.
Now that your man has won and you control both houses of Congress, will you apologize for the hateful invective you've been spewing for the past eight years against your country and fellow countrymen who didn't agree with you? Will you acknowledge that your predictions of a draft, martial law, a war for oil, etc, were all wrong?
I didn't think so. Enjoy the next four years - it might be another eight after that before you get to the keys to the car again.
What?
Try crunching race numbers by income and see what comes out. Or is pointing out statistics still racist?
This would be like disqualifying him because his mother didn't tick the exact right box when registering his birth, or something stupid like that. Who cares?
Would you like a slice of toast?
You're the type of liberal that brings this country down.
Not voting for Obama because I'm white doesn't make me racist, I don't agree with his socioeconomic views.
So I guess all white people should have voted for Obama (democracy be damned!) to show they aren't racist?
I'm sorry, that's a bit bigoted...
Let's see... Iraq was under sanctions for over 10 years and the sanctions where leaking badly. Because not everone believed in them or the UN's authority to impose them. Similarly, the UN issued hollow resolution after resolution condemming what was happening in Iraq until it was clear that the UN wasn't going to do anything except issue condemnations.
The entry into Iraq by the US was after years upon years of violations of various agreements. Finally, Iraq ejected the arms inspectors, sending a clear message that they were not going to be showing the UN what else they were doing. All the while the "Oil for Food" program was funnelling millions of dollars into the top leadership in Iraq and not the civilians as was intended. What was possible with all that money, aside from building ornate palaces? Who knows. Certainly there was enough money to buy virtually anything, including banned weapons.
As for isolationism, today we have closed most of the factories in the US because of excessive labor costs. Excessive when compared with third-world countries. The differential is so great that it is cheaper to make stuff halfway around the world and ship it here than it is to make it here. Deciding that we no longer wanted to do that would (a) raise prices on everything sold in the US overnight and (b) violate many international agreements about "open trade" and such. Nope, we're unlikely to do any of that.
So, are you
1) a crazy racist
or
2) completely ignorant of history?
I'm not usually politically correct, but that sig is pretty tasteless, isn't it?
My only hope is that this election makes the Republican party (and eventually Democratic party) wake up and realize we need to make some REAL changes in our approach to politics and the role of government. RON PAUL for president in 2012 !!!
That speech was incredibly powerful; as a British man I cannot say I've had a Prime Minister's speech have the profound effect that President-Elect Barack Obama's had on me. Heck, if someone like myself can shed a tear for the strength of American ideals, then I consider that a powerful speech.
Once again, the US has demonstrated its simple trick for success. We aren't the smartest people on the planet, but we have the best error-handling routine ever devised. All we need is a reliable method for determining that an error in leadership has occurred. We don't have to figure out the error, just remove the faulty leader unit and hot-swap a new one in. Brilliant! The genius of democracy is not that the people are always right, just that they recognize mistakes.
I didn't support Obama, but I think the system worked perfectly.
Well, the American elections are a very important fact here in Italy too. As for myself, I'm looking with envy to the President the Americans have chosen, and I feel particularly angry for the disastrous state of things in my country in comparison. I'll be blogging about that after my first guitar self-lesson :-P
The Glass-Steagall act probably should be reinstated, but moreover we should kick the greedy bastards out of Wall Street and replace them with the more conservative financial leaders who were slowly pushed out by the instant-gratification morons.
And repeal of Sarbanes-Oxley. It has been proven not to work, as AGI, Bears-Sterns, Goldman-Sachs, et.al. were in compliance but there was still no significant warning that these corporations were so near to collapse. Instead, it provides a multi-million dollar barrier to IPO for any company with a good business plan but in need of capital. We need to encourage new start-ups, not put huge hurtles in their path that serve no useful purpose.
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
OK, I have a better citation for you. I didn't notice those CNN stats had multiple pages. On page 6:
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#val=USP00p6
Was Race of Candidates an Important Factor to You?
9% said yes, and of those 9%, 46% voted for McCain.
Furthermore, 2% said race was the MOST important factor, and 41% of that 2% voted for McCain. That means, of the 112 million people that voted, nearly 1 million voted for McCain primarily because of race. 1.2 million voted for Obama for the same reason. I hardly see that as a significant difference among the overall vote.
Just wait til all their votes are counted from today's Republican only voting day.
The USA can't afford half of his promises. If you want the US government to lend you a dollar for a coffee, they'll have to print it or borrow it. And if you want to find out just how much of his campaign rhetoric will be paid any kind of lip service, just watch how fast he gets on doing nothing about NAFTA.
He knows NAFTA is a net gain to the country. It was just politically expedient to badmouth it in towns with failed manufacturing industries.
He's a politician, through and through.
Obama may be the Messiah and all (but I personally doubt he's going to be able to do anything, not that McCain would have), but I'm a lot more worried about propositions. As a relatively new resident of California, I got my first taste of proposition fever, where stupid people vote on complicated issues like spending billions of tax dollars on emotional issues. It's rather sad in my opinion.
But specifically, I think there's two propositions that are more important and, in fact, belong on the ballot since they're either asking a fundamental question or doing something the legislature would never in a million years do. First, there's prop 8 which is, amazingly enough, passing and will ban gay marriage. Not totally unexpected, but not not really expected either.
Second, there's prop 11, which would have moved redistricting from the state legislature to a separate, bi-partisan, non-political committee and is supported by just about every newspaper in the state and most politicians except Nancy Pelosi and many, but not all, other Democrats. The solution is not perfect, but I finally found out last night why people are against it. And the reason is that Democrats believe that they will lose seats in the state government and in the House. Now, I am a libertarian and registered Republican, but I support such measures in all states, including California and Texas. The fact that Democrats are essentially being anti-democratic on this is simply pathetic, and I still have hopes that it will pass (it's leading by 1% currently). If you want to see what it'll prevent, see Wikipedia's entry on Gerrymandering.
Careful!
I remember where I was when Bush was elected... Don't you?
I'd be happy if he's at least good enough that I don't remember...
I know this is flamebait, but why "God bless America" when the segregation was allowed until so recently?
God bless America, because it changed, and we've come so far so quickly!
That's what this is about, the promise of America, which is that it aims for the highest of ideals which have never been reality, yet the change towards those ideals is real.
You can compare to other nations who didn't have these problems. You can complain that the change did not happen miraculously overnight, but instead took place in small, slow, reasonable increments over several centuries. You can say that we merely elected a man, a man who cannot and will not change everything, and who by his mere election doesn't resolve all the racial problems in our country.
That's all true, yet doesn't alter the fact that change has happened, in the past, and today, and will certainly happen in the future.
God bless America.
The enemies of Democracy are
Stop the bullshit. Very few people did not vote for Barack because he is Black. I for one didn't vote for him because of all his wealth redistribution rhetoric and the fact that his policies will ruin the economy which is already hurting. Notice the stock market this morning?
He practically squeaked by at 51 odd percent. Not to detract from his achievement; I think it was a brilliantly planned and executed campaign. It is still disheartening to me, as a non-American, that such a candidate could command so small a majority of his countrymen's support.
As for Iraq, Yes. These are the conditions that really led to this, and I agree that something had to be done. We should have finished Afghanistan first, though, and we should have made sure that the rest of the world was "With Us" before we went into Iraq. We *should not* be the police force of the world. We shouldn't be the *only ones* who actually do something when others are suffering. Finally, we can't do it alone while the rest of the world hates us for doing it. For the isolationist argument, I agree it's unlikely, but really, we need to do something... We can't pay or bills if we can't work. We can't work if we cost more than anyone else, and we can't afford to work at the pay rates of these other countries and still have a lifestyle that even closely resembles a modern country. Not to mention that many of these countries also don't have the regulations we have when it comes to environmental safety, worker safety, etc. How can we openly and freely compete? Anyone have a sensible solution?
Logic is the beginning of reason, not the end of it.
Oh yes, a deducated Vice-President is much better.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e161/raphtmarqui/Obama_GIF.gif
I was getting laid by my fiancee
I often have trouble remembering which way is out of bed in the morning.
Most of what SNL did was just quote her straight-up, which is the truly scary part: SNL didn't even need to write most of its own jokes. Palin is just that much of a twit, and the worst part is that she knew just enough to twist this to her advantage in the debates. Someone capable of this is not someone who belongs within 5000 miles of the most powerful office in the US (and, arguably, the world).
Palin is not the first person whose greatest attack ads were simply her own words played back at her. Sadly, she will probably not be the last either. But when they do spring up, there is good reason to fear them.
It's a shame about McCain. It really is. He's a strong statesman, a good politician, and he probably would have been at least as good for the country (if in different ways) than Obama. But Palin had to be stopped, and fortunately, she was. You might even say that she won the election; she just won it for the opposing side.
Oh, so when the black vote differs significantly it's racism, but when the white vote differs significantly, it's just political ideology? LOL. OK, whatever.
Oh, and by the way, be sure to see my other comment with additional stats from the same poll, this time specifically addressing race:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1019121&cid=25645163
Refusing my own argument, huh?
Anyone elected (for president, congress, senate, whatever) right now who _WOULDN'T_ raise taxes is not fit for the job. You don't get to keep spending "free money" unless you want to either
a) Cause a severe global recession.
or
b) continue one already caused by such practices.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
Chocolate Jesus is a forced meme...
"Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs. We have a protractor."
At least now we have someone in the office who actually does wish to change those things.
Wanting is the first step. So we've moved from a condition of "no hope for any change whatsoever" to "some hope for some change".
It's sort of like playing the lottery. If you buy a ticket, your odds are infinitesimal. But if you don't buy one, your odds are zero. If you buy a ticket you move from the land of "absolutely not" to the land of "maybe so".
So yeah, I doubt Mr. Obama will be able to do a tenth of what he says. He will be blocked by The Powers That Be at every single turn. Just watch the lobbying Exxon does in the next four years to keep him from pursuing his biofuels initiative, for example. It's gonna make your head spin.
But at least he wants to try to fix things rather than make them worse, and 10% is better than nothing. Hell, if all he does is sit in the oval office and play XBox for the next four years we'll be better off than the active malevolence of the W administration. Just a moratorium on undermining the Bill of Rights will be worth it, IMO.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
As President-elect Obama made clear in his acceptance speech last night, this is an opportunity for change. Lead, follow or get out of the way. Time to move on.
flatheadenterprises
Sorry, America is full of hope now, and your tired old cynicism does nothing except make you look like a poor loser.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
It really is astounding how Obama triumphed despite discrimination.
I know his group has a lot of bad sterotypes, and there's a lot of talk about how harmful they are to themselves and others. I have to admit I have stronger negative feelings about his group than most and I never imagined in this modern day that one of them would be elected president. But then, against all odds and sterotypes, it happened.
A smoker was elected President!
I stole this Sig
Considering "undeducated" is not a word you really should not be talking.
We in the rest of the world sympathise deeply with the plight of the white minority who are regularly oppressed by the rich, powerful black oligarchs.
Where's -1 Fruit Loop when you need it?
"It doesn't cost enough, and it makes too much sense."
Just because someone didn't win an election doesn't mean that they should not have.
Guess what? Whites are no longer a majority in this country. (IE: Less than 50% of the population). The U.S. is more of a melting pot than ever. It won't be long before 'whites' are not even the LARGEST of the many 'groups' that this country is made of. Not that dividing the US into 'groups' was ever a good idea. We are ALL Americans, QED.
The last eight years have been the most prosperous of my life. My parents kicked me to the curb when I was 18. I made my way through life by working hard and getting educated. Now I own a house in one of the most expensive cities in the US. I have 10 years of living expenses in the bank. Other than a $180K mortgage, I have no debt. No one handed it to me. I earned it.
Should things get worse for me in the future, I will not blame Obama. I never attributed my success to Bush, I never blamed Clinton when my net worth tanked with the dot com bubble. My house is my house. It was worth $600K two years ago, now maybe $450. So what? I don't have an ARM. It doesn't take too many IQ points to understand that when interest rates wwere at historic lows trying to shave 1 or 2% off your rate at the risk of higher rates in the future was a fool's errand. I have been poor. But I never had a credit card balance or any other debt I couldn't pay. Why? Because I will go without before running up debt.
If you blame the politicians for your lot in life, maybe you should reexamine. Your life is what you make of it. In the end, the leadership of this country has very little to do with it.
Take a break from your hand wringing about how you are being oppressed by the RIAA or patents and examine your life. It's not all about free music, movies and linux. It's about what you do personally to make your life better. Don't blame the government if your life sucks. The blame lies with you.
Well, considering that this is the highest and most powerful position in the country, I would think that making doubly sure to "dot all the i's and cross all the t's" as it were, would be of utmost importance. For this job, at least, can we afford to be careless?
Logic is the beginning of reason, not the end of it.
Things will absolutely change. So the good news, is "you're wrong, just as you hoped".
The first category of changes he will make will be Holding The Line rather than making things worse. This is the easiest to slide by politcally without getting irrational interest groups riled.
Then he'll chip away at some truly ridiculous things, quietly. He has to be effective yet under the flashpoint. He has to let the temporal time pass so we all can realize how duped we were, and how truly awful the Bush Disaster really was.
About a year in, maybe more, maybe less, look for a couple of signature policies.
We're shellshocked right now, and he actually tapped that to win like he deserves. Expect a round of really ugly trolling about the 2-4 month mark, maybe more. We have an absolutely DEVASTATING undercurrent of civil rights to solve. During the campaign race was a "campaign issue". Now that he is President, there's some really ugly fallout on the way.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
You can thank Clinton for the bank mess that Bush was forced to clean up. Check this link out from 1999.. .to bad people didn't listen back then.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE7DB153EF933A0575AC0A96F958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1
But you haven't shown anything. Look at arrest statistics, employment statistics, educational statistics: everywhere you look, you will see institutionalized racism in America, unless you are deliberately blind.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
John McCain should have won the election.
If John McCain should have won the election, John McCain would have won the election.
My question would be, why didn't 95% of whites vote for Obama?
Anti-black racism in the white American community is ugly.
In my corner of the white American community I saw the following happen.
If Obama was a woman my mother would have voted for him. Instead she voted for Sarah Palin. My father and I voted for Obama. My mother told me she didn't like Obama or McCain at all and thought Mrs. Palin wouldn't take crap from men in office.
Now you can debate it was all about race, but right or wrong, based on my mothers actions and feelings. I'm willing to bet she wasn't alone in voting for McCain for the reasons she did. If Obama would have picked Hillary over Biden then there might have been a MUCH larger victory for Obama. I'm not saying that's a fact, I'm just saying that's what I feel based off what I've seen.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
No... and yes. Racism isn't over; racism wasn't over when slavery ended, when the military was integrated or when Jim Crow was abolished. But each of those was a watershed, and things were a little bit different, a little bit better.
I wonder if folks who were around for the civil rights movement of the 60s thought they'd live to see this day.
I saw a reporter speaking from Times Square, or maybe it was Grant Park, last night, saying that his father had always told him that this country would never elect a black man president. He said that the country had finally proved his old man wrong. From a practical standpoint, it's not that big a deal. From a symbolic one, its importance can't be overstated.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
It's great that Obama is president, but I'm skeptical of the true interests behind the progressive, benign image. To achieve a meaningful, positive change in the USA and the world he has to face down a corporate/military system of great wealth and power. If he doesn't, it'll be more of the same: a devious and rapacious foreign policy, strategic falsehoods, strife and inequity with the aim of US hegemony. There's never been a better character for the job, but it's a hell of a tough job.
Hear, hear!
Ah...maybe I interpreted the AC a little loosely. I agree with you that we already live in a society with many socialist aspects. And I agree with AC that Obama will introduce more socialism.
If I were "drawing the line" as you say, I would draw it at the minimum amount of government intervention we could get away with. And I would limit (federal) government intervention to those things that are clearly common goods: national defense, court system, maybe interstate highways, etc. Direct transfers of wealth from one group to another (in whatever direction) would not make my list.
It sounds like your definition of true liberty is "positive liberty" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_liberty. When I say liberty, I mean negative liberty as it is discussed in that article. I consider the concept of positive liberty to be rhetorical lipstick to make patronizing collectivism more palatable. Yuck.
On the other hand, I do want people to be "free from the ravages of nature." And I try to do my small part of making that happen. But I do it with my own resources...I don't use other people's time and money against their will.
"Rub her feet." -- L.L.
it occurs to me that I may need to explain why I put black in quotes.
This is becasue I don't believe in race in that sense, and we know that we are the same race just with different skin pigmentation.
I hate using race as a border/political division. It's ignorant, stupid, and pointless.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Nobody ordered the banks to do anything. The CRA is completely voluntary.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
http://i35.tinypic.com/mbmump.jpg
If by "He was defeated" you mean "His party drew the most support and won the most seats".
Nobody knows and nobody can know. Stupid question.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Very funny, thanks for the link.
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Dot them all from when he became politically responsible and accountable, yes, but I just can't see how the silly citizenship hurdles his parents had to go through just to send him to school has any relevance.
Does it in any way make him fitter or weaker for the job of president? Is it really anything to do with him at all?
Would you like a slice of toast?
I have similar feelings, although I'm hopeful that Obama honors the platform he ran on and stays just slightly left of center. Clinton did this. He was pretty liberal, but definitely ran the Presidency just slightly left of center. Of course Clinton had a GOP congress to keep him in check. No such luck with Obama.
It actually scares me more to have a one-party system than it does to have a liberal president. Thank all that's holy the Senate Repubs still have enough to filibuster anything that's too far left, like a national police force.
I see this as more a failure of the republican party than anything else. Bush was/is not very conservative as far as I can tell and while I believe it was the right thing to do to go in to Iraq, Bush's reasons were extremely flawed, whether outright lies or just honest bad intelligence. Also the repubs put up some lousy candidates given the climate. They needed someone young and dynamic, like Obama, but instead we got old stiff business men that you could practically see reading their speeches word for word off their teleprompters. Of course they all do that, but Obama makes it look natural.
The fact is, its not the duty of the public to pay for other's poor/bad decisions in life. You deal with the cards you're dealt. There are plenty of opportunities and other options other than food stamps and government handouts.
"When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."
Well, it's all well and good to have an ultra-religious, right-wing woman as a running mate. But there were plenty of *smart* Republicans who fit the bill just as well, and wouldn't have looked quite so... calculated?
Yeah, I am sorry but I'll take socialism before this fricken military despotism.
Be careful what you wish for.
"I might have made a tactical error in not going to a physician for 20 years." -- Warren Zevon
All administrations and all congresses. The problem is somehow the blame in the public mind got shifted solely to the Republicans no matter how dirty Democratic hands were.
That's an unrealistic expectation. People are greedy. Just as ambitious people gravitate towards positions of power, greedy people gravitate towards positions of wealth.
Just as the government is regulated by a complex series of checks and balances, so too much companies be regulated. A good first step to restoring order is to eliminate the state of anarchy.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
HAHAHAHAA Are you Crazy??!?!?!? Did you even watch the speeches last night?? Well it went something like this:
McCain Speech:
McCain mentions obama and everyone BOOOOSS!! McCain mentions support our new president and lets move on work together and everyone booooos/heckles and says NOWAY!!
Obama Speech:
Obama mentions McCain, great respect, time to move on and work together. Time to move forward and nothing but admiration for McCain. Everyone claps. Wow...
It seems as if you have a very biased point of view. There are plenty of places for haters such as yourself to move. I recommend the moon.
I wonder what went on in the backroom that led to McCain choosing Palin? Certainly after the Couric interview to me at least it didn't feel like she had McCain's full support, sure he said nice words about her but it never rang true to me.
Was choosing her a simple cynical play to grab the small town christian vote or was he backed into it by a party who couldn't take the leap of faith to choose Joe Lieberman? If the former, well McCain deserves what he got. If the latter, the Republicans deserve what they got. I dare-say the race would have been a whole lot closer.
Perhaps that's the problem with being a "maverick" within your own party - sometimes you have to make choices which ultimately satisfy no-one.
I'll see your hokum and raise you a boondoggle.
President elect Tuvok! I'm ready to return to Rigel VII!
Hold onto your wallet. He will try to dig in deeper and redistribute your money to those who don't contribute to the financial well being of society. Yes, I mean that the middle class will get robbed of their hard earned income too. Just wait and watch...it's coming. We are on the fast track from the USA to the SSA (Socialist States of America).
Athiesm is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
"Here's a little hint for you, what do you think would happen to the US if the chinese flooded the market with all the US IOUs they've been stashing away? ICBMs and aircraft carriers are so 20th century. The real big red button these days is in Beijing and is labelled SELL (err... in chinese)."
Once the point is reached where nobody will continue to fund U.S. deficits, they'll do what other countries have done before them.
They'll default.
And if you think, "No they won't!", remember Stein's Law. If something can't go on forever, it'll stop on it's own.
He doesn't want to fight them, he wants to "talk to them".
Or, he wants to re-add diplomacy as one of the tools in our arsenal.
Or, he wants to ask questions, then shoot if needed instead of shooting first and refusing to allow anyone to ask questions later.
One we pull out of (read abandon) Iraq and Afghanistan ...
A heartlessly abrupt end to our long-standing occupation might lead to the sorts of problems you describe. But, stay there forever and run away immediately are not the only two answers. I fully expect that we will remain in Iraq for quite some time as we figure out how to leave without causing that whole laundry list of problems when we do.
The US does in fact allow Dual Citzenship
"Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
2237 posts and counting. A sight rarely seen here and is a testimony to the previous failures and people's hope for the next four years.
Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
"No one"?!? Haliburton and Blackwater are doing quite well right now, thank you very much! Much more accurate to say the Bush administration valued cronyism over competence, and put in place policies designed to benefit an elite few at a huge cost to many others. Also, socialism is when you redistribute resources to the poor and needy. Redistributing wealth to the already rich and powerful is more akin to fascism.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Wow, sounds like the rubber stamp Bush had in his first 6 years.
Right. But the mechanism is subtler, more internalized, than 'Jim Crow' laws, or Plessey vs. Ferguson cases.
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
I have to suck it up and admit I failed myself.
Ah, I see your problem: you don't speak Jive! ;)
Before you take their statements out of context, allow me to translate..."
"Obama is the candidate I believe best supports my interests." would be the best way to read the statements of the two you heard in line.
Nothing to see here, move along!
Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
Do not confuse neoconservative and Republican -- while most neocons are Republicans, most Republicans are not neoconservative and many Republicans found the neoconservatives to be embarrassing.
If so many Republicans find them embarassing, then by all means, those "many" Republicans should feel free to take control of their party and eject the neocons. Then it would be less embarassing to call oneself a Republican. As long as the Republicans give safe harbor to the neocons, they are implicitly endorsing their (ludicrous, damaging) beliefs.
A cat is no trade for integrity!
I was on my sofa with a beer on the coffee table, switching back and forth between CNN and my VATS targeting system.
John McCain should have won the election.
If John McCain should have won the election, John McCain would have won the election.
Based on that logic, Bush should have won the last 2 elections.
My question would be, why didn't 95% of whites vote for Obama?
Anti-black racism in the white American community is ugly.
In a racially divided election (as this apparently was shaped into) for any candidate to draw 95% of a specific race indicates that the voters from that demographic are clearly racists.
Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But then I repeat myself. -- Mark Twain
Yeah, and Dan Rather still thinks the forged memos are authentic. CBS flat-out lied that the documents had been authenticated and that the source was unimpeachable. Just a little lie to help Kerry in the 2004 election. But they got caught.
Did you know that in today's poll, 51% believe the media was in the tank for Obama, only 7% for McCain, only about 30% said they were unbiased? Remember, this is just after the same public voted Obama into office by over 50%, so you do have Obama voters admitting the media was biased for their candidate.
That 7% was probably looking at Fox, but the 51% was looking at the left-leaning media that you think always tells you the unbiased truth.
Wow, Isn't that pretty much what happened when Bush came into office? I'm taking my chances on the new guy.
It's called "Mein Kampf" AKA "My Struggle". Read it before commenting on it please. It's rambling, anti-semitic, and hardly organized enough to be considered a ""blueprint"" for the Holocaust. It's rabble rousing at its most basic, kind of like the McCain/Palin rallies turned into by the end of the campaign. That kind of thing is dangerous because eventually the nut-jobs in the audience eventually want to do something about all the hate that's encouraged.
See? We aren't ALL cross burning rednecks!
However if you think we are going to start using less oil, stop polluting, pay off our credit cards, learn French, and stop bombing smaller nations, think again.
Oh yeah, we could use about $700,000,000,000 right about now.... I won't bother to convert that figure to yen or euro.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
What's a president?
Wrong! We didn't nationalize banks, insurance companies, and prokerage hosues we more coropratized them! The Federal Reserve has the control of those entities. The Federal Reserve is a PRIAVTE COMMERCIAL entity - it is NOT, I repeat NOT part of the federal government. This by itself is unconstitutional! If you don't beleive me reserach it for yourself. And guess what BOTH McCain and Obama BOTH voted for the bailout bill that gave the Federal Reserve the power of a FOURTH branch of government! Read the bailout bill and see what kind of unlimited power the Federal Reserve just got!
The Truth is a Virus!!!
It is nonsense because luck plays a big role in personal success, no matter what you do. Luck can make you rich and luck can make you poor and luck can make you need a wheelchair. And it is nonsense because society (especially US society) does not give same opportunities to everyone. People do not have equal chances at all.
It has always been the politics of the conservative parties to keep up the myth you are spreading here and do as much as possible to not let solidarity happen: that what a really civilized society should be based on: to also let people live in dignity even if they had no luck and no oportunities.
Instead the republicans have pumped millions and billions into wars banks and into the task of killing hundreds of thousands of civilians all over the worlds, while letting their own people hunger and go without even basic medical care.
I won't keep you from going on with jerking off to your own success, but doing someting about one's own life might be necessary but certainly is not sufficient to make one's life better or even worth to be called human.
Go around, open your eyes and talk to people and maybe, just maybe, you will start to understand.
Not even close. Try seeing: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/results/ Now compare to: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/main.results/#S and http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/main.results/#val=H The avalanche that just happened is way bigger than the 2000 election.
That is what write ins are for. I'm still hoping for Cthulhu for 2012.
There ARE more than two parties. They're just not allowed to participate in the debates. Rectify that, and you'll see real change. The Republocrats are just two peas in the same pod, with very little to differentiate themselves from each other.
If third parties are on the majority of states' ballots, they should be automatically invited to the televised debates, period. If the two major parties have all the answers, then they should have nothing to fear.
"I might have made a tactical error in not going to a physician for 20 years." -- Warren Zevon
I voted for Nader. Again. Look, Ralph Nader is the reason we have clean water, seatbelts in cars, and a variety of other things that keep American consumers healthy and happy. Obama is just another stuffed shirt, partisan hack.
I want to hope, I want to believe. I want to chant, "Yes we can!" and cry with Oprah.
But there is no way the 5 major media corporations that run every magazine, TV station, radio station, news paper, and movie publishing house (AOL/Time, Viacom, News Corp, Bertelsmann, Disney) will allow a real representative of the people ANY time on their media outlets. This is why Ron Paul is not a "realistic" candidate. This is why Kucinich had no chance, and this is why nobody even knew Nader was running..... AGAIN!
I'm glad McCain lost. He represented a worse deal for American citizens over all. I'm also glad a black guy won. Good for morale and all that. But I think by June of next year, Americans, even the black ones, will realize, that we've "elected" another corporate whore, an empty suit who does whatever the party and the corporations who control it tell him to do. There will still be rampant poverty, horrendous usury, debt slavery, unjust wars and occupations, a media blackout on 9/11, JFK, and UFOs, corporate monopolism that makes it impossible for American citizens to compete with Starbucks, Wal Mart, Best Buy, and Exxon, and an economy based on printed paper, rather than the gold standard and the constitution.
Stop taking prescription meds and watching TV people! These corporations are programmed by design to destroy all living things for the most money possible while subsequently impoverishing culture, education, and families. Obama is not going to do shit to fix it, he's a corporate democrat!
Ralph Nader or Ron Paul would have maybe, but they weren't "realistic" because the giant media corporations that both parties are beholden to said so, and they are the only source of "information" Americans and the world gets, false, evil, and wrong as it generally is.
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
Guess what? Whites are no longer a majority in this country. (IE: Less than 50% of the population).
Whites make up 74% of the US population according to the Census Bureau .
Jesus - read the grandparent.
I satirized his remark with opposites to make the point that the grandparent was possibly drawing bigotet conclusions.
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
At first I was going to vote like Obama. (Not for Obama, like Obama. You know... check "Write In" and write "Present".)
Then I was going to vote like McCain (vote the way Bush would have on 90% of the items).
I finally ended up voting for change: I wrote in someone else and then found ten cents on the sidewalk as I left. That's all the "change" I expect to get from this election.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
"Homophobes"
LOL.
Jesus - read the grandparent.
I satirized his remark with opposites to make the point that the grandparent was possibly drawing bigoted conclusions.
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
Obama is clearly not even close to Marxism, that you suggest he is means you have no clue as to what Marxism is. A Marxist would have no place running for POTUSA as a Marxist is primarily concerned with class struggle. That means organising working people within the working class.
So yes, you're clueless.
Nick
In response to GP.
In reality, blacks in America (I refuse to use african-american ever since I heard a commentator call a Jamacian man african-american) have voted overwhelmingly for the Democrat's candidate in every election since I can remember. Black turnout was actually very comparable this year to what it was four and eight years ago. To say that race was the turning point in this campaign might make sense, but the truth is we have to look outside the black community to see any deviation from historical trends.
As it stands, I think it's VERY hard to say to what extent Obama's race helped or hurt him, as polling about racial issues is very heavily fraught with personal/social implications that may make poll respondents less than truthful. But the numbers of the white voters he got lends itself much more easily to the idea that race-conscious whites voted for him as a show of racial transcendence than it does to the idea that race-conscious whites voted for McCain out of racial rejection.
My fellow Americans, let's restore the death penalty for child rapists. Let's do it . . . for the children.
I think the problem is that this current election is the end result of a prolonged phase out of the perceived choicer that voters had. First third parties got ignored and silenced by the media limiting the attention span of people to selecting one of two parties. Now we have just elected one to take control over everything without giving the only other "dominant" party enough votes for any push back power.
This is what has me freaked and why I'm saying that we just became a dictatorship. People became lazy on selecting based on ideas so it became a horse race and now there isn't any diversity because people just threw up their hands and said let one party solve it all. "Just make us fat and happy" became the cry of the people.
My question would be, why didn't 95% of whites vote for Obama?
Obama got a couple of percentage points more votes among whites than the last 3 or 4 democratic presidential candidates did.
In other words, he did better among white voters than the last 3 or 4 white guys did.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
I keep that clip on my PDA!
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=robot+chicken+terrorism&emb=0&aq=f#
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
I registered and cast an early vote For Barack Obama over the weekend.
Election night was spent playing EVE-Online with some friends, with IRC on another monitor, and CNN's election coverage on another. My father and I were following the election very closely. When they announced Obama had California, Oregon, and Washington we knew it was pretty much over. Apparently someone got the idea to ring the church bells to celebrate the news, nice touch.
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
Which is why it is easy for people to overlook or deny. There is always a semi-plausible alternative explanation.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
If Obama fails to dish out the welfare, (doubtful, as he opposed even the immensely popular, reasonable, and humane welfare reform under Gingrich/Clinton) I think the charge of sellout is almost guaranteed. Not that it will hurt him in the voter turnout next election.
My fellow Americans, let's restore the death penalty for child rapists. Let's do it . . . for the children.
What the world is applauding now is the historic and symbolic victory. These are real things that create goodwill from others in the world. It demonstrates that American democracy is a powerful idea that can deliver on its ideals. That no man possessing the talent, will be held back by race alone. Along with Obamas message of hope, inclusion, and interaction, it helps to reverse Americas sinking reputation abroad.
It helps race relations at home, it helps leave behind a slave mentality for African Americans. Now when a single mother tells her minority child that if he works hard he could be President some day, she is speaking truth and she can point to a real example.
These things are accomplished merely by the win. People are swept in part by the symbolic win he is already delivered, that is pretty much guaranteed to pay dividends.
But the next layer is the quality of the individual. President Elect Obama is a win for Intelligence and Ability. This is refreshing change. This grueling race has shown a calm, reasoned, well read, thinking man. Does anyone doubt the shaper mind won here?
Expectations on the challenges ahead. It will be interesting to see how President Obama manages Washington. In the end I expect there will be much disappointment all around. I expect those that voted against him will be unhappy with too much change, those that voted for him unhappy with to little. He has a fine line to walk and he is facing and economic disaster and like upheavals in the middle east following an Iraq withdrawal. Challenges everywhere. I don't think he is some kind of miracle worker, but my gut says this is the best man for the job. Intelligent, willing to listen, organized, disciplined.
Best of luck President Elect Obama.
No president since the 1950s has served an entire term without engaging America in some foreign conflict.
Which president in the entire 20th century has served an entire term without engaging America in some foreign conflict?
What?
Tell me about it. I live in Florida. =\
Jesus, ladies and gentlemen - read the grandparent.
I satirized his remark with exact opposites and counterpoint to make the point that the grandparent was possibly drawing bigoted conclusions.
And for those of you who fail to the logic to this remark:
If John McCain should have won the election, John McCain would have won the election.
... then I urge you to really study what Dr. Deming was all about. Failing that - allow me to be pedantic for those that simply must find fault: I am responding to posted word that no, I will not take lying down, that McCain should have won, despite the fact that he lost - all because blacks voted notoriously - as anti-white racists.
Such bullshit is exactly the same thing as trying to get away with this equivalent: "McCain shoulda won, but them darkies didn't do as they was supposed to" - and I'm not fucking having it.
It strains credulity that semantics with the word "should" can become this obtuse.
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
Under Bush we all got "Stimulus checks" redistribution of wealth, we "nationalized banks", we "nationalized insurance companies", we "nationalized brokerage houses", and we gave trillions in welfare to Iraq...
Stimulus checks that weren't from a tax hike and from a President that specifically didn't say that he wanted to spread the wealth.
"Nationalized banks" that have SEVERE penalties for the banks if they don't pay back the loan within a few years.
"Nationalized insurance companies" unfortunately, yes. But that had to be done.
"trillions in welfare to iraq" Uh, no. Billions to Iraq sure. But you realize that were are in a war right? You do understand that we still are defending Japan and Germany right? You understand we paid for the Berlin airlift right? You understand we rebuilt the entire Axis' economy after we defeated them, right? Or would you have preferred we had let them fail?
Oh, and don't forget that Obama threatened to bankrupt our nation's most plentiful supply of power; coal.
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I don't know, but we might see in 20 years, when the schoolchildren of today get inspired and work harder.
We might see it in church and neighbourhood groups as they are given hope to change their communities.
There is a lot more to a President than just being Commander in Chief and signing or vetoing laws.
There is no question that the election of a half-Arab, half-Black child of a broken home to the Presidency of the United States *says* something to the world and to history about us as a country, as an ideal, that can never, ever, be taken away.
I think idiotic statements like are what defined what the rest of the world thought of the US before this election, don't keep it up. You almost made a good point until you detracted from your entire statement with this nonsense.
Obama's mother is from Wichita, Kansas, and is quite caucasian. His biological father is from Kenya, and was ethnically called a Luo, a subsaharan African ethnic group. His adopted father, while in fact a muslim, was ethnically indonesian. Not all muslims are arabs.
Arab is an ethnic term, and there is no evidence that Obama is in any way Arab (just like there's no evidence he's muslim). I can't fathom why you said this, other than the fact that you might be thinking arab=muslim. If that was the case, then that's just plain idiotic, and is yet another reason why the world hates us, because if we can't get that right, we can't get foreign policy right.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
First thing I thought about ... Rev. Martin Luther King's "I have a dream".
I wonder what Dr. King would have thought about this line from Obama:
"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We've got to have a Civilian National Security Force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."
As a guy who spent a lot of time not being very pleased with civilian security forces, I do wonder what he'd think about a giant, powerful new one with a huge new bureaucracy slurping up gajillions of new dollars, operating inside the borders. Huge bureacracies and giant new security forces tend to look for something to do, and someone to do it to.
I knew he was socialist, but that is a blatant request to have government REALLY in people's business.
The irony.
Tons of white folks voted AGAINST him for no reason but skin color or perceived religion
The fact that he won, and by a good margin, means that there can't be "tons" of those people.
Even one is too many, but... his election shows that people aren't as bad as you think they are.
Hmm, I thought cow orkers tended toward the Republicans more?
Hmm, would that involve bovines that look like elephants?
"Milk maids for securing our borders!"
"Beef. It's what's for dinner... and the patriot act."
am i missing something?
well, see over here, as a state employee in .fr, I make less than 30k net a year.
out of that, I pay about 3k in income tax, and another 1.5k in local taxes.
thing is, I don't have to worry about things like health insurance... when I go to the doctor, I present my state health insurance agency card, and off I go. same when I go to the pharmacy to pick up the goods... add to this, that my mother, who just came out from a double breast cancer also didn't have to pay a cent to be properly treated (including 4 or 5 surgeries)...
now, try to beat that with the current fucked up healthcare system you have in the US...
she would have had 1 maybe 2 surgeries, and it would have been spotted sooner. Free is not better. Especially when it comes to medicine.
Agree on the thought of Hope.
This was the largest turnout in history since 1906 (on a percentage basis I heard?) of registered voters. I don't think that government has really changed here. But, the outcome reflects that we changed!
The one thing that our representatives expect is that we'll go home and expect them to work out the details. Let's remember they are supposed to represent us, meaning make sure your voice is heard.
I readily divulge, I didn't vote for the winner. Nevertheless, I'm ready to embrace supporting the winner. Let's get to the getting along and make our home united in the hope of shared prosperity!
want to lay $100 on that, or are you just full of shit?
"It doesn't cost enough, and it makes too much sense."
Or unless one group is to dumb to hold a job...
Causation's relation to correlation, and all that.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
corporate executives already make 250K or less actual salary in many cases. Do you think this is sheer coincidence? Stocks, perks, etc do not count as salary. Wow. Obama sure is saving the middle class. If, by middle class you mean 200K/yr salary, and 1 million+in perks, stocks, and benefits not counting directly to income. This is why Obama got elected. Promise something that is completely easy to never actually deliver on. Something so vague in definition that you didn't ass fuck the nation, that condom you wore did. In fact, accuse the condom of raping you while you're at it. I don't think Obama has ever connected with the common man on any level, ever. Campaigning to the bulk of America, while catering (via senate votes and campaign donations received) to the wealthy and elite was a very tough trick to pull off. Props for appearing to understand what middle class people want, and working to deliver it.
for a more complete understanding , watch this interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3G_gViM9OU
Wanted : A Signature.
you mean like when Colin Powell said that?
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25361792
Hillsbourough was only a slight lead for Obama, but Pinellas (which is part of the Tampa area) shows 9%.
If you look at that map, with only a few exceptions, when Obama won a county, he won it big time. And those counties are all where the biggest cities are. Obama won the counties of 8 or the 10 largest cities in Florida:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Florida
Perfect correlation? No. But I think it's a strong enough example to reasonably prove my point that you come up will all kinds of silly theories if you look at the data different ways. I wasn't suggest to prove that city folk hate white...just that black didn't necessarily vote for him because he's black.
I'd encourage you to look into the colloquial connotation of the phrase "He's my nigga"- it's much more innocuous than you think; more akin to "That's my Man!" than it is to "I will give this person my vote based solely on the fact that he's black." Matter o' fact, when your presumed interpretation is actually verbalized, it sounds almost silly, doesn't it? Trust me, it's more an off-the-cuff expression of enthusiasm than it is a statement of philosophical underpinnings. I hope you can rest easier now.
Really?! Then why was my son suspended for using the term?
As a non-white that attended a predominantly black college, and has watched a lot of BET, it is very clear to anyone that racism is alive and well in these United States. You are free, or even ENCOURAGED, to express it...as long as you're not white.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
I did well also, but I also got to see the public purse not just mis-spent, but turned inside out and thrown into debt. All arguments aside, the difference is this: Spend public money on A) War profiteers with no return on the investment, or B) Schools, Health Care and Clean Energy. Seems like a clear choice to me.
As for the whole, "Blame only yourself for your failures", well, that's fine to a point. . , but how successful would you have been if you'd had abusive, drug-using parents, had suffered from an improperly developed brain due to childhood malnourishment, had been sent to school in a poor neighborhood which couldn't afford books, and had been told by everybody around that you were worthless? Do you REALLY think that you would be where you are today if you had all of that piled on you?
-FL
Are you white? If so, please walk speaking "jive" for a while on a south Chicago street corner, or anywhere in the Smith Homes community in Greensboro. If you survive, let us know how that works for you.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
In one of my other posts, I mentioned that those CNN stats show on page 6 that 2% of voters said race was their primary concern, and thus 2.2 million people voted for their candidate primary based on race. I'd say that's a ton.
Oh, wait, you meant conservatives. I guess that play on words worked! You should maybe reconsider throwing that useless half baked "new" word around. You really aren't superior or more educated, or even automatically more thoughtful by invoking images of hate mongerers when discussing someone else's political views. Shouldn't you be out attending a socialist celebration somewhere?
It really was a momentous occasion.
Too bad I missed all the live events, I was commuting, haha.
If each mistake being made is a new one, then progress is being made.
Under Bush we all got "Stimulus checks" redistribution of wealth, we...
And now you're worried about socialism?
Welcome to last year.
With Obama's plan, we'll now be getting 8 stimulus checks each year instead of one.
Now, you can be sure that if a republican would have been pushing to expand on Bush's ideas, he would have been crucified for it, but if it is Obama, it's considered "change".
Free unix account: freeshell.org
GERMAN camps... (if you insist on using only the nationality). Or, even better, Nazi German camps/etc. Eventually, with the addition "in Poland" (though a) not all were there b) technically this wasn't Polish territory back then)
Sure, you might know the difference. You might know what you're talking about. But a lot of people reading your post might get really silly ideas.
One that hath name thou can not otter
So many comments have been posted (2492!?) that some script goes buggy on Firefox (2).
Anyway, I was thrilled today to learn Obama won the election. This is fantastic! Congratulations to the United States for making this choice, congratulations also for electing your first black president. Somehow, after all what black Americans have been through, this feels like a beautiful historical moment.
I've always wondered what it would feel like to life in a welfare state.
Just move to almost any one of the red states. They like to screech like mad about taxes, but they don't actually pay any and in fact receive large welfare payments. This hypocritical delusion is critical to their world view, which explains their inability to deal with reality as if they were rational adults.
And take away the flamebait modder's silly juice.
GOP socialism is the worst kind of socialism anyone could ever think of.
That's because it's not Socialism, it's Fascism. Far other end of the political spectrum, Dude.
My thoughts too. Would've been really special for her to have known for certain that he won the presidency.
Tons of white folks voted AGAINST him for no reason but skin color or perceived religion
My father-in-law is from New York and has said (to my face) that anyone from the South or Midwest is lazy and uneducated because we don't have work ethics or good schools.
I voted for Barr because I like his social policies. My father-in-law voted against Obama because he's black. And yet, next time he visits, he'll patiently explain why I'm an ignorant redneck.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Yep, I did. It washed out some of the bitterness left behind after 8yrs of Texas dirt.
success often occurs in private, failure in full view
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f349/khyberkitsune/COMBOBREAKER.jpg
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
the stimulus checks are not an example of redistribution since everyone got a check.
Bullshit. I pay plenty of taxes and have yet to see one of those fucking checks. I am, however, still paying the interest on the loan that was taken out to send them to the rest of you.
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I do agree to a timeline of sorts, but we should make sure that the Iraqi government is fully capable of taking care of themselves, and the damage we caused to their infrastructure is repaired as much as possible given the current issues. I just don't want Obama to pull out immediately, as he was want to do early on. Most US citizens favor an immediate pullout as well. I think it would be disastrous. I also don't want those "groups" and countries out there chanting for our destruction to think that we're going to go soft on them now. Diplomacy is one thing, rolling over and taking it is another.
Logic is the beginning of reason, not the end of it.
My question would be, why didn't 95% of whites vote for Obama?
Because more than 5% of us disliked his policies? I didn't vote for McCain, either.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Many people thought we were getting the lesser of two evils when Bush was elected over Gore.
Those people weren't exactly what you'd call smart. In fact, they're generally the bottom of the barrel of our society. I mean imagine being *that* fucking stupid. I wonder if it's like being a bug or something.
The African-American population has traditionally voted 85%-90% with the Democrats.
You can start being more racially sensitive by not calling black people "African-American".
BD Phone Home!
Shameless plug. Like you weren't expecting it.
...finally comes to an end. Welcome back to the Unio
I cry bullshit.
http://www.allcountries.org/uscensus/544_federal_funds_summary_distribution_by_state.html
It's 10 year old data, but the % of fluctuation per capita is +/- 15% except for some exceptional outliers (Alaska, Virginia)
There's welfare everywhere. 10% of the Federal Budget goes to California, with 10% of the population... makes sense, no?
The real change will come in about 3.5yrs.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
This guy beat me to it.
I'm getting so sick and tired of people getting +5 just because they have a link in their post.
News Flash: the presence of a web page doesn't make it accurate.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
Changing the USA mindset from fear mongering to hope is a huge thing in itself and is the first step towards rebuilding US as a nation and an international player.
While the "first black president" thing might be an historic moment for black civil rights, that is not what Obama is about.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
I have to say that McCain's concession speech was really very graceful. Just thought it should be noted.
The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
2000 comments total.
Your prediction is a little on the low side - 2550 and counting at the time I posted this!)
My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
I hope President Obama will be able to force IE and FF to handle ALT and TITLE tags in a standardized manner.
I am not against a market and innovation, but why such a simple thing could not be standardized?
Additionally, the IRA did not want to destroy England, or protetantism. They wanted England out of their country.
Big difference...
These people want the whole world to embrace their version of islam or die.
They want the western world destroyed. And they are more than willing to kill anyone and everyone, including themselves, to accomplish this.
Can one really reason with this type of person?
Logic is the beginning of reason, not the end of it.
Same here on all counts. I was a little disappointed to see Nader get a paltry 0.53 percent at the last count I saw. :-\
I ponder if /. will cover the return of the fairness doctrine 1-3 years from now, or will it wait until term 2 when it is amended through net neutrality "needs" to impact this very discussion?
We don't need smokestacks to get moving, we can build a lot of windmills.
Incidentally, what drugs were you on when you thought Bush was going to be the same as Clinton?
What is the criteria for "worthy?" I can put up at least two.
In Europe the national-socialism is also still alive. Especially in Western Europe. It was defeated in general but the idea is still alive.
Your calculation assumes both that black turnout would have been the same if the Democratic candidate was not black, and that white people did not vote against Obama at all because of race. Replace Obama with a white candidate and black turnout would be down, hurting the dems, but white support for that candidate would be up, helping them. If you account for both those extra variables, I think you'd discover that whether McCain "should" or "should not" have won the election is pretty much a toss-up.
In any case, he got creamed, there's no argument about that. And frankly, I think it had more to do with Palin alienating the centrists that might otherwise have liked McCain than the race issue. Obama really should have thanked her and Bush in his acceptance speech, as without the pair he would have had a much tougher fight.
The New World Order would like to thank all the US sleepwalkers for their support.
Iraq: Previous administrations tried to negotiate. Again and again. Hussein snubbed his nose at the US, the UN, and the international community repeatedly. During that time he committed acts of genocide against his own citizens, and other atrocities. At some point, enough is enough! Afghanistan: The Taliban aided and supported Bin Laden. They harbored, sheltered, and shielded him. Currently, they openly and routinely target civilian populations. They openly and purposefully murder innocents. People who just want to have a say in their lives, and live their own religion in peace. Yes, I know our forces have killed civilians as well, and that is a terrible shame. We DON'T specifically target civilians, and we try to minimize civilian casualties as much as possible. They DO specifically target civilians, and DON'T CARE who gets killed in their "holy war".
Logic is the beginning of reason, not the end of it.
But that saying "He's my..." can only be said if you are black. If you are white you will be beaten (at best). While it is true that race and gender should not have played a part in the election. Those two things did play a part in the election. Which is sad, really really sad.
Did anyone else hear that some someone went into Harlem. Asked people if who they were voting for and if they said Obama: used McCain's talking points and said to people do you agree. They said yes. They also did the reverse, if the person said McCain, Obama's talking points were used. And again, they agreed with the talking points. It proves the point that not everyone (more likely most) have no idea what Obama or McCain stand for. Which again falls under the sad category.
Brilliantly put. I am a Canadian Permanent Resident in the United States, who has been very excited about this election ever since it begin. I hate GWB and his administration so much that in my mind - ANYONE would have been an improvement. However, I quickly caught Obama Fever, and have been backing him all through his presidential campaign. That's right, even though I can't vote yet, I have been helping him with his campaign via the internet, and with small donations. You are right. Obama and his new team need to dig America out of a VERY deep hole. Finally the end of the corrupt Bush Oligarchy is in sight, and America can once again re-attain its greatness - eventually. Let's just hope that Barrack Obama is the first of many new administrations that will serve to cause the fatal mistakes of GWB and his cronies to fade away into the history books.
I agree completely. But if you think Obama represents a change for the better you're in for a rude awakening.
Our debt, trade deficits, entitlements are going to bankrupt us. There is no question of whether this will happen, the only question is when. The ridiculous bailouts and printing of money by the Federal Reserve have guaranteed inflation that should easily exceed the highest level in the 80's.
We have the most serious issues in the history of our country at our doorstep, and what do our candidates talk about? Universal health care, tax breaks, and confrontations with Russia and Iran. More reckless spending, more debt and more inflation. The very things that got us into this mess, and will only make it worse.
I noticed this as well. I guess we just needed a new minority group to oppress.
Required reading for internet skeptics
you..wow. you think obama will end america? put the whiskey down, get off the tractor, and read a book.
> Okay. Luck caused me to work hard. ...
I repeat -- in your case, that might have caused you success. If you are not blind you will see that a lot of people work hard, maybe harder than you ever did and cannot even make ends meet or pay the operation of their kids. Maybe hard work is necessary (though I doubt it when I look at some of the rich people and how they earned their millions) but it certainly is not sufficient.
I never said that your wealth or success is based on luck. I say, however, that in many cases it can be based on luck and in even more (99%) of the cases, NOT getting wealthy or successful is based on bad luck rather than a lack of willingness to work. I am honestly sick and tired of assholes who add insult to injury by supposing that those who did not manage to be successful are only responsible for their failures themselves. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Your response shows me that obviously, you prefer to tick it off as your achievement that circumstances made it possible for your hard work to actually let you achieve you a little bit. Fine. If it makes you feel nice and comfy to remain in your little bubble of cluelessness (that you so evidently proved to all of us by the nonsense you wrote about diabetes), be my guest.
But spare us the insulting idiocy of generalizing to others in that utterly idiotic and completely insight-free way, will you?
Civil rights? Any man in this country has as much right to marry a woman of a different race as I do-zero. Giving people with inter-race preferences the right to marry another of a different race is giving them rights that currently do not exist--even for white people. There is nothing in common between true civil rights and interracial marriage.
Do you feel dumb yet? You will in 40 years...
My foot it is.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Pointing out statistics isn't racist. The interpretation that you put on them may well be. But without an interpretation they don't mean anything.
J.C. once said (as translated) "The poor you will always have with you". This could be read as a statistical statement about the distribution of incomes, but usually people put some interpretation on those words that isn't, strictly speaking, found within the text.
An old saying went "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.", and it was largely based on the fact that statistics don't tell you why something happened, but they sure make it easy for your prejudices to convince you that you know.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
The US dollar is backed by oil, no longer gold. Everyone needs dollars to buy oil so America gets to export it's inflation to the developed and developing world. This is a bonanza for the government and banks. Growth (Credit expansion) without end... Woohoo...
Of course to continue the growth (credit expansion) you have to continually expand the number of people who have access to credit. Eventually you are stopping people in the street and giving it away...
But, like all exponential functions, you hit a limit, run out of some resource... Like people able to pay.
Deleted
You do understand that we still are defending Japan and Germany right?
Interesting wording... you're still here, but who exactly are you 'defending' us FROM?
If you pull out your military now, we promise we won't start any more wars, and we're quite sure we'll be fine without you here 'defending' us.
Don't get me wrong, most countries are pretty thankful for some of the things the US has done in the past (e.g. the Berlin airlift that you mentioned), but it's a bit much to expect eternal and undying gratitude for just those few events, especially since the "rebuilding" you did was mostly because you bombed the cities to oblivion first (think of it this way: if yo hadn't bombed it, you wouldn't have had to pay to fix it...)
My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
Personally I LIKE not stepping over homeless people in the street, not getting mugged if I take the train at 3am, and not having to deal with extra-ordinarily stupid people on a daily basis. All of these are a direct result of that fact that I, and everyone else in the country I live in, pay quite a lot of our salary in taxes to the government to make sure that the society we live in is strong, prosperous and pleasant.
My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
is not code.
so whatever he does to worsen the depression
Sounds like you've made your mind up already!
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
'America, we are better than these last eight years. We are a better country than this.'
This was a triumph. I'm making a note here: huge success. It's hard to overstate my satisfaction . . .
For a few precious minutes last night, it truly felt as if there had been a sudden outbreak of common sense--that we had finally done something meaningful and right. For a moment, I honestly could not understand what I was feeling. It was pride. Pride in my country. How corny is that? Or more to the point: What does it say about us and our recent history that for many people my age and younger, patriotism and being 'proud to be an american' has fallen so completely out of fashion? Is it not significant that my feeling of pride for our nation was immediately accompanied by the initial disbelief and surprise that I was feeling it at all?
This wave of euphoria that accompanies being witness to history unfortunately breaks upon even a cursory inspection of comments posted by Joe the Alledged Everyman on any given blog or message board. Ubiquitous are the comments crafted of outlandish allegations about our President Elect and our future that are almost as unbelievable as the sad truth that anyone actually believes them. The hatred is palpable in a way that unfortunately guarantees the conclusion of euphoria and predicates a swift return to planet Earth.
I don't like people who think hating the opposition is a criterion for supporting their candidate. My stomach tightened up as McCain was giving his extremely gracious concession speech and the crowd actually started booing at the mention of his opponent's name. It was hard to watch.
I really quite admire John McCain. I have for a very long time. It's no secret that he has often been referred to as the 'democrats favorite republican,' and true to this aphorism, he is my favorite as well.
I agree with McCain on a number of issues. I agree with him about building more nuclear power plants, I agree with him about preserving gun rights, I agree him about the troop surge, about school vouchers, and about ear marks. I deeply admire his service to this country and am thankful for his willingness to reach across the isle to get things done. I think he is a man of great character--he is no more Bush III than Obama is a marxist terrorist. McCain would have never been a puppet for Cheney like our current president. McCain doesn't subscribe to cronyism, McCain puts country before party. McCain is a great man.
So why did I vote for Obama?
Because universal healthcare is of great importance to me, but even more important is my belief that our leader should have a socially progressive agenda. I am in favor of gay rights. I believe they should be able to marry, I believe they should be able to adopt, and I believe that they should have the same protections that we would afford any other minority. I believe in a woman's right to choose. In the next term, it is likely that the president will be called upon to appoint two new supreme court justices and I am loathe to risk putting the court in an even larger conservative strangle hold.
However, I share many ideas with those same conservatives, but socially I am a liberal and it is regrettable that in order to pursue the realization of certain political ideals I share with the right that I would have to also be in league with people who I find almost as repulsive morally as I find their self righteousness in being so.
Obama is an intellectual. He is thoughtful, he is deliberate. I like that. His demeanor was another significant reason that I favored his candidacy. I'm not sure when this country started looking down on people with a high level of education. We are the most powerful and wealthy nation on the planet, the idea that we should eschew the educated man is simply ridiculous. I think our leader should be of the highest intelligence available. My mind still recoils every time I think that we elected a C a
Israel has no confidence in Obama. They will move first. They gain nothing from waiting. I hope I am wrong, but history says I'm not. One day people will (again) realize that the economy is not the most important thing in their life. How much is a 401(k) worth when the world is at war? The *two* founding responsibilities of the Federal Gov't are to provide for the defense of the Nation and to regulate interstate commerce. Let me know if you find out where it says it is the Gov't responsibility to provide the *means* and not just the *environment* for the pursuit of happiness. With Obama and an increasing democrat control in Congress we will sink into an ever increasing welfare-driven society. There is no self responsibility left. And personal success is beaten down as a disease. Do your self a favor and actually look at his record and read about his rise to power. Its not a point of view issue. He is statistically one of the most partisan and liberal senators. His relationships would bar him from gaining any level of security clearance. He has never run any organization in his life. The only experience he has is as a pep rally leader and spending other people's money.
Hell, even today, most people think FDR ended the first great depression.
He most certainly did. He ended it by dying.
I think the importance of this event is indicated by the number of postings and discussions it has generated here on /. It has to be a truly significant topic to draw thousands of responses! (Oh, by the way, I just read that they have proof that C++ is better than Java - discuss!)
Under Bush we all got "Stimulus checks" redistribution of wealth
Oh, and President Bush sent checks to taxpayers where Obama's plan is to send checks to everyone. Since almost 50% of the people receiving the checks DON'T pay Federal income tax, it would be welfare.
That's you being cautiously optimistic? Good God, I'd hate to see you when you're depressed.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Just like his voting record, questionable birth record, clear marxist ties, and tie ins with the Savings and Loan industry and numerous other things. Clinton perjured himself, shredded Whitewater documents, and several other things. I just wonder why anyone votes for either major party's candidates at all anymore.
I appreciate that it seems like Barrack Obmaha's heart is in the right place. I dont see anything changing anytime soon since he has no interest in changing the system. We still have a corrupt financial system We have questions about the 9/11 attacks that are not being answered , We have the FISA bill that is most likley being used to spy on political dissidents, We have a 100 mile Constitution Free zone where you can be stopped and asked to prove your citizenship and have your belongings searched without due process, We have a debate that troops might be stationed in the US to be mobilized for planned civil unrest, If any of you are on the change movement my suggestion would be to press our government to address these issues. Lets see how far Obhama is really willing to go. so far he has supported the FISA bill and then some how suggested that he was always for it when he was against it in the beginning of his running. People need to stop playing the two party game and force independence in this country. Both Democrats and Republicans are part of the same coin and money rules this country instead of people.
As I recall, Bush in 2000 ran on a platform that seemed like he had stolen many ideas from the democrats. There was lots of talk with regards to his education successes in Texas and not much about getting involved overseas.
Of course 9/11 happened and people don't really remember much about Bush's goals prior to that point, but I can see where someone might think that Bush might run things in a Clinton like way.
Bring back the old version of slashdot.
Just like the soviet version...
One that hath name thou can not otter
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54556-2004Sep1.html
He would overhaul Medicare, Social Security and public education; cut taxes; reinvigorate the military; restore civility to the political system; and help the poor with tax credits for health insurance, assistance buying homes and charitable-giving incentives. "We will use these good times for great goals," he said. "We will confront the hard issues."
Four years ago, Republican nominee George W. Bush rehearsed an acceptance speech containing a menu of ambitious campaign promises. (Bill O'leary -- The Washington Post)
Thursday night, President Bush will accept the party's nomination for a second term here with a mixed record on those hard issues. On some -- tax cuts and education -- he made enormous progress toward his goals. On others -- Medicare, the military and his "compassion" agenda -- he made partial progress. And on the rest -- Social Security and attempting to "change the tone" of Washington -- nothing much has changed.
Bush's 2000 acceptance speech was widely seen as having successfully introduced the nation to a leader with strong principles, clear policies and a determination to return dignity to the Oval Office after President Bill Clinton's scandals. The speech's main refrain -- "They had their chance. They have not led. We will." -- neatly encapsulated Bush's message to the largest audience the relatively little-known Texas governor had ever faced.
But the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, made the Bush presidency largely unrecognizable from the one he outlined in Philadelphia. He did not even mention terrorism in that speech, and the speech reflected the country's inward-looking priorities. After promising a "humble" foreign policy on the stump, his main non-domestic proposal that night was for a missile defense system first debated two decades earlier.
Sept. 11, said Bush campaign chairman Marc Racicot, "redefined the planet." And it would be impossible to assess Bush's work toward his campaign promises without considering the way the attacks necessitated an entirely new agenda for his presidency: a Department of Homeland Security, the USA Patriot Act, and wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and against al Qaeda.
Even so, a look at Bush's record on his original promises shows that he was more successful at achieving specific policies such as tax cuts and changes in federal education support than he was at translating into specific achievement the broader promises he used in 2000 to present himself as "a different kind of Republican" -- a promise of bipartisan cooperation and help for the poor and disadvantaged.
Bring back the old version of slashdot.
So the advertising system on Slashdot, which (I would assume) displays ads in context to the text on the page, is showing me ads saying "Dis OBAMA Buy The Election? Make your voice heard!"... Is this trying to tell me something?
The Democrats will still pass legislation that favours big businesses, just a different group of businesses.
If you look at campaign donations, that's not really true. I don't think that's it. What makes the difference between the two parties is the way in which they serve businesses. Republicans cut taxes on businesses and the rich, Democrats try to stabilize the economy and are the ones who take the role of keeping the masses content with medicare, civil rights bills, etc.. They both have their purpose, perhaps none more important than the shared purpose of keeping people voting for one against the other.
Property is theft.
No thanks. I'll give a shit what color he is mainly because it's a pretty damn good gauge of how far America has come along in terms of overcoming some nasty racism.
We have come a long way in reducing racism. We've passed the hate to the next down the line.
Here's a vastly oversimplified view of the line:
1830: Americans hate and persecute the Irish immigrants.
1890: Americans (now including the Irish) persecute the Polish and other Eastern European immigrants.
All along: American whites (including Irish and Polish) persecute blacks.
20th century: American whites (and many blacks!) fear and persecute latino immigrants.
Yesterday, on the day the USA first elects a black president, three states passed constitutional amendments making gays second-class citizens with fewer rights. In California, nearly 70% of blacks and hispanics voted for Proposition 8.
Yes, we just pass the fear and hate on down the line. Human mass psychology seems incapable of producing happiness without having an "outsider" group to loathe and persecute.
Honestly, I'm fucking thrilled about Obama, but I'm starting to see the "moving past racism" thing as just another turn of the hate wheel.
Right now the arrow is pointing at Gays and Muslims and atheists. I wonder who will be the target(s) in 2030?
I stole this sig from someone cleverer than me.
Unfortunately, what I'm afraid of right now is that the Republican party, in the reorientation and retrospection that's bound to happen, will come to the conclusion that McCain lost the election rather than Palin. There's going to be a nasty battle for the party come the primaries next year... I see a number of champions for a return of the neo-cons and the religious right with Palin, Huckabee, and Romney. Bobby Jindal, I can see him becoming a big player but I'm not sure where he'll end up. But I dont see any strong leaders from the pragmatic, small government, strong but restrained military branch that I wish the party was... although the fact that McCain did win the primary gives me some hope.
I think that's a very interesting question. I'd love to know the thought process that ended up choosing Palin. The Republicans are smart, and yet they made a very dumb choice for VP on their ticket. I can only think of these reasons that they might have chosen Palin:
- She's a woman. Perhaps they thought that they could capitalize on what they thought was simmering discontent within the Democratic party at having not chosen a woman presidential candidate? Maybe they really thought that if Palin was appealing enough to women, a significant number of female Democratic votes would switch to McCain over Obama? I think they were very wrong on this count - or maybe the concept was good but Palin was the wrong woman for the job?
- She's an unknown. So naturally there's going to be hightened interest as people try to figure out what this unknown is all about. I think they succeeded on this point - Palin definitely attracted alot of attention. Everyone knows that Palin and Obama were the two big headline generators of this event, with McCain and Biden being less focused on to some degree.
- Probably they thought she was 'cute' and 'likeable' enough to be able to hold significantly negative, attack-dog positions, and yet still remain appealing? I can see the Republicans wanting a vice president who could attack Obama with impugnity and remain squeaky-clean looking herself. If they had a regular, lifetime politician type as VP candidate, and that person acted as a vicious attack dog, this could definitely backfire in a big way as people form a negative image of the ticket based on the actions of the attack dog. But someone who has a certain buffer of cuteness, as Palin did, might be able to deliver these attacks while remaining likeable. I think that may have been the idea. I don't think it worked that well.
- Being from such a far-out place and having such a far-out governing record would add to the "maverick" quality of the ticket. That was probably a consideration.
- Being good-looking always helps.
- Being young helps to make the ticket not seem as old as it might with McCain and another older statesman/stateswoman.
- Palin's conservative social viewpoints helped to solidify the ticket's appeal among the religious and other social conservatives for whom McCain might not have seemed socially conservative enough.
It was a gamble, no doubt. I can see the validity of many of the above reasons for choosing Palin, and there are certainly more. But in the end, they ignored Palin's greatest liability - her lack of intelligence, experience, and grace under the pressure of intense media scrutiny. And those ended up having a greater negative impact for the ticket than the positives she had.
Interesting wording... you're still here, but who exactly are you 'defending' us FROM?
well...it WAS the USSR. Now that they've gone down the tubes, you'll notice there was quite a large drop in the number of US troops and equipment in Europe.
(think of it this way: if yo hadn't bombed it, you wouldn't have had to pay to fix it...)
Unfortunately, if the allies hadn't bombed those cities...WWII would have ended much, much differently. Or maybe not ended at all.
Sorry, but the human condition is something that the laws need to be written to presume. One must presume that those controlling lots of money for a short time will be motivated to gain as much from it as the can safely do. And to not worry about the long term effects unless those directly effect them, personally. (Even then, evidence shows that long-term effects tend to be severely discounted.)
Therefore the laws must be written to control that in the known environment of humans. Greedy bastards are the ones most interested in money, so that's what you'll find where lots of money is accessible to control. These are standard environmental conditions. You don't get more conservative financial leaders unless the laws DEMAND that that's who you get. (And even then there will be exceptions...so you need to watch carefully.)
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
If only 2% of voters are that kind of loser, I believe that we are doing well. I think 2% is cause to celebrate. I would like to see how our 2% compares to other cultures.
Less than 2% would be even better. We'll get there in time.
And quality of life. Honestly, most of us over here in Europe are shocked when we hear about families with both parents working "just to pay the mortgage". How a country can get to that point for a small but significant percentage of its population and still have some other citizens consider the country to be "doing well" is really quite beyond our collective understanding...
My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
A black man has been elected President of the United States of America, and that alone is extremely important. You can debate all you want about the semantics, but that's how America and the world see it, and that's how I see it. The fact of the matter is, when the President of the United States of America stands up in front of the nation and the world, we will see a brown face for the first time ever, and that means a hell of a lot to me and millions of others.
The American people have finally decided to do something about their feeling that the country was going in the wrong direction - without bloodshed, without a coup, and by following the laws that were designed to make this happen in a civil and stable way.
I for one am sick and tired of people's excessive cynicism and pessimism. It's just as irrational as excessive optimism. People live down to expectations, and if you don't demand better, you won't get it. Just because we don't often see instant results, it doesn't mean our efforts are wasted.
Often it's just an excuse for not being an activist. Other times I think it's to avoid being disappointed when one's hopes aren't fulfilled, but really what you're doing is conditioning yourself against recognizing all possibilities. This conditions people against hope, and it is debilitating.
The bottom line is, this man is living proof that you don't have to let the odds stop you from doing anything great, especially not here in America. I'm going to fly my flag, and I won't let anyone tell me I shouldn't be proud today; I am going to feel the joy for a little while longer, then roll up my sleeves and get back to work trying to make the world a better place.
Love, Squeedle
If you're seriously that interested maybe you should take an active role in the party instead of them expecting you to be a mind reader. Do you honestly think they would have rejected Ron Paul if they could have got him? That would have been huge for the party.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Depending on what you mean by "whites," you may be reading those numbers wrong. The US Census Bureau classifies along two independent criteria:
The page you linked estimates that 73.9% of the US population is "white." However, Non-Hispanic White is 66%, actually.
Are you adequate?
In this new day, from now on, everyone is required to use fully descriptive terms when using the word "Liberal".
Do you hate legal liberals (People who want to make lots of new laws), economic liberals (People who throw lots of money at things, like bankster bailouts), or social liberals (Live and let live types)? Or some other kind of format("{0} liberals", [Descriptor])?
Liberal alone means nothing to most of us. In the words of Elisa: "Come, Come. Elucidate."
Some social worker from outside the current establishment easily wins presidency. Most of the earnest citizens believe him, his new hope, his new leadership, his new... Against him was a 70 yo grandpa and a silly chick to replace him if he dies. What kind of race is it? There's a big economic tsunami coming, this country financed demand with debt and printed money for too long, and the wave will crash on the heads of whoever's in charge, besides all of us simple mortals. I think that in about a year the new hope and new leadership will be down the toilet, people will be trying to climb from underneath the wreckage and few will remember these eloquent speeches. I guess for Americans black president means something ...
You could argue that a lot of the white voters voted for McCain because he's white.
You could argue that, except that the exit polling indicates otherwise. Which is to say that the people who indicated that race was important broke for Obama, not for McCain. Whites as well as blacks.
Quit being so damned bitter and actually start helping your fellow countrymen instead of being an asshole because your guy didn't win.
Funny you should say this, as this reminds me of something my friend's dad said recently. He's the kind of rich, Orange Country CA, Christian conservative who will be eviscerated by the upcoming Democrat-dominated government. However, he told his son recently, "I of course hope Obama doesn't win, but if he does, I'm going to give him a chance, unlike the left did with Bush."
I think conservatives have a right to be smarting this morning, especially after that coronation by the US media (you can look at this elections coverage by the mainstream media and FOX News is the problem? Really? The other media was fair and balanced? You have got to be kidding), and the fact that McCain was negatively affected by the housing disaster when he was one of the few people in government who tried to do something about it (other than "send a letter").
But unlike the left, conservatives do believe that there is more than one world view and in majority rule, so they will be the loyal opposition to their president (and Congress), instead of whining about this election for 4 (or 8) years. There will be no Obama Derangement Syndrome.
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
I was in my small bed in my small dorm room. Nothing but joy.
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That doesn't mean I will use the color of his skin to judge his abilities as his president
Well if you voted for Obama, you are one of the few. A white, 47-year-old noobie senator with no resume wouldn't have had a chance in this election. And awful lot of people voted for Barack Obama because he is black, or that was a huge part of their reasoning, and you know it.
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
I doubt the people pulling down over $250,000 a year do much sweating.
It's more a man is not necessarily entitled to massive profits from the sweat of other men's brows.
paintball
Him being elected will not fix racism but it is a big step in the right direction.
America just elected a black man as president with the largest popular vote in history (63M+). Seems to me the US has just proven that perhaps Democrats (like Bill Clinton, who called Obama "unelectable," a veiled reference to his race) are simply wrong about how racist America is.
I am so sick of hearing how the US is so racist. The US is the most racially sensitive country on earth, but we can't stop beating ourselves up about slavery and segregation, so we look for racism under every rock. We can't even discuss race honestly without people tiptoeing around things, afraid of being branded the worst thing an American can be called - a racist (it's even worse than child molester or rapist, if Michael Jackson and Roman Polanski tell us anything). Obama was shielded from so much criticism because of this hyper-sensitivity, it made both Hillary's and McCain's jobs impossible. Every criticism was "racist," even things Obama had freely admitted to, like drug use.
You want racial progress? Let's all exhale and say that honest discussions of race - like examining the pathologies of inner city blacks, instead of just dropping money out of helicopters to them - are not racist. Then and only then will we see some racial progress.
Show me some other western democracies who have had black presidents or even SecStates, or have governors and mayors who are black all around the country - in a county with roughly 11% of the population being black. But most Americans do not travel enough, so they don't see who the real racial progressives are.
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
I wish what you were saying was true.
However, the rhetoric is not based on facts and hasn't been for years. There are constituencies that rely on all whites remaining racists. The only question is whether they ignore Obama or turn on him.
Although they are wrong, they do have a valid argument. If there is still racism, it will take a lot more than a black man in the White House to change it.
> When 96% of the black vote goes to one candidate, it's pretty clear we have a long way to go.
John Kerry won 90% of that same black vote. The reason they vote Democrat is because the Democrats were the ones to put an end to segregation.
Yes, a very long time ago Lincoln helped them, too. But the Republicans were fighting for segregation and "states rights" was a code word for racism because it was expressing the opinion that the federal government shouldn't have the power to force the states to treat everyone equally. While there are libertarians nowadays who are not racists and who believe that for other reasons, they have good reason to be worried because there are still people out there who hate them for no other reason than the color of their skin.
Even if they do everything right, there are people who assume they're on welfare or that they're lazy, or that they are promiscuous and judge them without knowing them. So they get sensitive about it, and that rubs white people the right way when they accidentally offend someone. But hopefully those days are ending. They're not gone yet, not by a long shot, but Obama won a majority of young white people. We're a new generation and we want to put the bad old days behind us.
They call it the "black experience" now, because many "black" people have mixed ancestries. They call it that because it's the way you get treated, even if you're half-white (like Obama). And racism is still harsh because there's no way to hide the fact that you're black and there's no way to turn it off when you'd rather not deal with the consequences. You have to face it down, each and every day. That's hard sometimes!
But hopefully. Just maybe. We can all face it together.
But Fox is outnumbered by CNN, NBC, CBS and ABC.
Ostrich. If you don't like the numbers, they must be lying.
Specifically, it was 51% of unaffiliated voters who said they were biased to Obama. Only half of Democratic voters said they were unbiased.
If you look at the total votes for each candidate, the last election was split almost exactly 50/50, if my memory serves me right - or 49/49/2 if you include Nader. This time it was 52/46/2, which means only 3% changed their vote - or even less if you consider the new voters who disproportionatly supported Obama.
So despite fielding a young, inspirational candidate against an old one tarred with the same brush as the lame-duck incumbent; and a steady experienced running mate against - how can I say this kindly? - an extremely naive one; and the embarrassment that was Bush's presidency; and involvement in a war that has cost the country over 4000 people and it's prosperity; and spending 2.6 billion on their campaigns - less than 3% changed their vote.
Does this mean that most Americans simply vote they way they always have, regardless of what's happening around them? Maybe someone who actually lives in the place could explain this strangeness.
Do as you would be done to.
It was a gamble, no doubt. I can see the validity of many of the above reasons for choosing Palin, and there are certainly more. But in the end, they ignored Palin's greatest liability - her lack of intelligence, experience, and grace under the pressure of intense media scrutiny. And those ended up having a greater negative impact for the ticket than the positives she had
I was going to type something to say perhaps JMC was cornered into choosing Palin, perhaps that is true, perhaps he chose to take the the gamble. Really what we expect of a president is that the buck stops there. Whatever the motivation, I think the choice was very rash.
I'll see your hokum and raise you a boondoggle.
I think that's exactly what we're going to see happen. Fortunately for me, I'm a pretty solid Democrat so this just means more victories for us as I don't think the Republican's have much hope pushing a far right agenda. I do honestly feel for the Republican moderates though, who I do have quite a bit of respect for. It was a shame to see McCain's campaign sell itself to the far right.
But I dont see any strong leaders from the pragmatic, small government, strong but restrained military branch that I wish the party was...
If the Republican party had way more of this and way less of the religious right I'd probably vote Republican about 50 percent of the time. As it stands right now, that party is way to scary for me to even consider giving power to on the national level.
I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
They're bad; but the Bush team has been consistently evil.
I wonder what this will mean for net neutrality. Obama says he's for it. Is Comcast and company worried? Also Biden is known to be in bed with the RIAA and MPAA. If Obama gets shot be some white supremacist group, which seems likely, will it be like having Jack Valenti as president?
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
Not voting Obama does not necessarily indicate racism.
No, but voting Republican does indicate stupidity.
... and then they built the supercollider.
...after reading through all three thousand plus posts on this topic, admittedly with a filter of +2, I feel compelled to come in and toss away all my mod points to say "thanks" to the /.'ers here and abroad for having actual, real, intelligent discourse about this. The signal to noise ratio was one of the best I've seen on a thread here in years.
I'd been firmly in the Obama camp since he came out against lobbyists in an incredibly direct zero-tolerance fashion (for Washington, at least). None in my ground crew, none in my cabinet, not a dime from them. So, that made the sale for me personally very early in the primary season. Voting for someone who's been a civil rights lawyer, and is incredibly well-spoken... well, that's just a bonus. How cool would it be to have a quotable president in your lifetime? All those speeches you memorize in school? What if you were there for a speech your kids memorize?
I'm not at all proud of what my government, and by association, my country has turned into in the last decade. And as cheesy as it might sound to some people, I really do think we need constructive, positive dialog to move forward. Race, international relations, financial markets... everything. We've gotten in the habit of painting the world in stark shades of idealogical black and white -- on both sides.
Growing up in the US, we're taught to believe in a very idealized, edited version of American history, and America as a symbol -- it's the history that we really wished could be. Down to the specifics of the Lincoln presidency and on, very complex issues are taught to us in a very binary, black and white fashion that loses nuance completely. But it's part of who we are. And for the most part, it's who we want to be. It might be borderline fiction, but it's a noble aspiration.
Something struck me during one of the debates. Obama said "We need to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable." -- which sounds juvenile on the surface, but is a consummate truth at its core and sums up a major issue with the "you're either with me or against me" macho cowboy politic crap we've had to endure.
We've been stuck in gridlock, incapable of positive change for so long that I think we've forgotten how to affect it.
I must say that if the John McCain who made the incredibly eloquent, heartfelt concession speech last night had been the same man who had been campaigning, I think things would have been a lot closer. Well, and ditched his trainwreck running mate, but I didn't log in to burn the neocons in effigy.
If Obama can achieve even a fraction of what he's set about, it'll be positive change for this country and world in my very honest opinion. It's arrogant as an American to believe that my vote affects the entire world, but looking over the last eight years in particular, it's incredibly naïve to believe it doesn't. We're a conflicted people.
McCain may very well have been capable of leading us out of this incredibly dark, deep hole that we're in, but the Republican party as a whole (down to my state and local levels -- I'm in North Florida) has lost any shred of credibility in regard to the term "conservative" where it applies to fiscal and legislative issues, and has taken the moral "conservative" tack -- ie, let's roll back the clock and stand in the way of social progress to regard to people who aren't just like us. You want polarization? Base your politics about making people scared of folks who aren't just like you, and spend your time telling other adults how to live their lives.
The world isn't like that, the country isn't like that... shit, my block isn't like that. So how did we get in this place?
The core of my personal moral compass is that there's nothing on this planet more offensive than a closed mind.
The more we talk, the more we begin to understand each other. And that's a start, isn't it?
What percentage of the total US population does that census cover, though? It won't be 100%.
Now, exactly what am I supposed to be feeling guilt or shame for because I was born a white guy? I have no guilt or shame about anything.
So, what's your problem, then? Were you the AC that "erroneus" was replying to?
... and then they built the supercollider.
Seriously, dude, Obama is not a socialist, and Bush put an end to more liberties than Obama would ever have any inclination to end.
Maybe, but it's not like people on Nov 5, 2000 were saying, oh shit, this Bush guy is going to take away all our liberties. Obama hasn't yet taken away any liberties, but he also hasn't taken office yet. Hopefully things will be all good, but it is a little premature to divine Obama's inclination.
Wow, a 7 digit ID - let that be a lesson in the perils of procrastination.
just last night a (half) black man was elected last night, a first. So, it shows that things change. Hopefully, it will be for the better.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Without this you're pretty much never going to see a third party get into power without a massive shift in viewpoint amongst the voting population.
Right now, unless the vast majority of people switch with you(which doesn't happen for third parties without a massive shift in society) voting for a third party is essentially voting for the majority party on the opposite side of the fence. A vote for Nader was a vote for Bush.
It shouldn't be that way, but in the current system it is and always will be.
With run off voting(ie a system where someone must get greater than 50% and people get to select their second, third, fourth choices(or the party they voted for negotiates for concessions if they haven't selected a preference) you still end up with two parties in the end, but you can vote your conscience without getting the opposite of what you want.
With instant run off voting you could have voted Nader and given your second preference to Gore(presuming that's who your second preference actually was) or on the other side of the fence voted for Buchanan and given your second preference to Bush Sr in 1992.
You would probably still not have gotten your third party candidate in, because tbh third party candidates are usually too extreme to get 50% or more of the vote, but you wouldn't have ended up with Bush Jr or Clinton instead of the major party closest to what you actually believe(unless that's what you wanted).
You may say "what's the point if third parties still won't get in", and the answer is that gradual political shift becomes possible. You can vote for libertarian, green, or whatever other third party you choose and still get the lesser of two evils. So an everyone else, and so your third party will get more votes, eventually possibly enough to actually win. You can also show your second choice where the political winds are blowing. Both the Democrats and the Republicans could see where the voter base actually is and shift their policies accordingly.
Without run off voting, this cannot happen, and will not happen without a massive shift in society. People have to be sure that voting their conscience isn't going to get them the 4-8 years of the exact opposite of what they want(as happened with both Clinton and Dubya when people voted third party) before the sensible ones will vote third party.
I never voted third party in the US, and I never will, but since moving to a country(of which I'm also a citizen) which has run off voting, I've never voted for a major. I can do this because I know that voting for what I believe won't end up giving me the opposite of what I want.
If we take from obscenely rich and give to the poor, who will want to work hard and become rich? Let me rephrase, why would I earn 100 trillion and have 99 trillion taxed from me and given to the poor, when I can simply earn 2 trillion, and keep 1 trillion. So, the poor will receive less anyway. Or the rich will find a way around paying taxes. Laws to redistribute wealth do not stimulate the economy.
There's welfare everywhere. 10% of the Federal Budget goes to California, with 10% of the population... makes sense, no?
No, makes no sense at all.
California pays a disproportionate amount of money into the pool and gets back far less. That money goes to the welfare states. Population is a complete red herring.
Your chart makes no mention of where the money comes from which is a critical point.
You are indeed correct. I had MBS and CDS confused. i find the whole issue to be very interesting since I do prefer and strive to undersrtand the mechanics of this disaster. Only with such understanding can we hope to understand causes and thus solutions. Would you happen to know of any good explanations and sources of information on these topics?
I'm just reading through all these posts to find out who my friends are, and who my enemies may be. :)
Your argument is too complicated. Too many NOT and NAND gates. Tautology error..........
Happy to find out what it will be like. NOTHING could be as bad as the current administration.
M
years, but the world is already at war.
Primarily I've been listening to NPR. A lot. :-P
If you go to NPR, you can hear their old Money Talk programs as podcasts. The hosts are struggling just as much as us to understand the crisis, so the result is fairly easy for the layman to understand. Also, a peer of your post posted a link to the "Long Johns" gags. Surprisingly, they are very much on the money. Which is probably what makes them so funny!
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
except that it won't work...there won't be anyone with money to pay for us all. good book about what we just did to ourselves, or potentially did: atlas shrugged.
No, you were quite correctly modded flamebait. After a period of Republican control of both houses and the Presidency, you predict the end of democracy because the Democrats are going to get it. If we survived the Republicans, we'll survive the Democrats.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
I don't really care for the continential view of the term offered by this article, and don't see liberty in terms of being some mean between two extremes. Really, this idea of a lack of government intervention being an ideal relationship between man and the state is really a way of distancing people from the mechaniations of the state itself. It looks to me more like a form of divide and conquer, and a way for the state to operate unmolested by oversight on behalf of it's citizens.
Liberty can be expressed solely in terms of the relationship between man and the state, and this is a perfectly valid way of defining the term. The way I look at it, liberty is a broader concept, and one which is not limited to the form of government under which we live. Man has liberated himself from the ebb and flow and flow of nature through the pursuit of science, the unrestrained pursuit of our interests through codes of ethics, and the cultivation of our uniquely human nature through the arts. Saying that there is something special about the state, that our liberty comes from gradually eliminating it from our lives, is conceptually incompatible with these other uses of the word.
Perhaps the best expression of the word is the pursuit of a perfect union, and idea we are fond of in US politics. This is by no means meant to refer strictly to states in the union, but between its people, too. Participating in a democracy may be the highest expression of liberty, because by your very actions you are exercizing your rights as a citizen. I don't really know the answer, I just know it's hard to look at libertarian ideas and really say that the word fits.
M
but at least those death-laser-eyeballs & fists of fury would have guaranteed, or at least had a chance, that we would still have a country in 4 years and rights left.
Anyone know a bookie taking odds on how long it will be before he is shot? America is just too stupid to appreciate the value of social welfare. Such concepts as a pension at 65, health care without bankruptcy or taking responsibility for unemployment are beyond the US imagination. Nor is any world concern for a tax system which distorts international taxation. (IE why do you think Murdock left Australia... better weather?) But don't worry when push comes to shove the US has plenty of guns in circulation to deal with those who have a social conscious. I suggest moving to a gated community in fantasy land and simplifying the issue to "the problem with this country is that black women have too many babies." Yani
The US Federal Government's decisions have a direct impact on my life, here where I live. There is hope yet.
SARAVA!
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That's right 140 pages, supposedly [right...], of this article.
Note to slashdot: For Christ's sake, could you please knock this shit the fuck off? Just use a simple "Next" and "Previous" okay? what do you say?
I know it's an effective way for people, like me, who buy ad-free pages, to burn through their accounts, but really, guys, come on... It's not about 'money' it's about being a pain in the ass.
Please accept my regards for your self-honesty and self-consistency. Your actions demonstrate that your faith informs your mind and actions rather than governing them blindly. While we may disagree on religion, we can at least do so respectfully.
I hope my GP statement above was sufficiently clear that it refers to the more blinkered fundamentalist individuals who still express ill-informed and venomous sentiments on comment forums across the Internet.
Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
P.S. regarding the rained-out speech joke, I've always liked the following exchange from Spider Robinson's 1977 story God is an Iron:
"God is an iron," I said. "Did you know that?"
I turned to look at her and she was staring. She laughed experimentally, stopped when I failed to join in. "And I'm a pair of pants with a hole scorched through the ass?"
"If a person who indulges in gluttony is a glutton, and a person who commits a felony is a felon, then God is an iron."
Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
I'll second that. Talked to a Russian once that absolutely saw no difference between Dem & Rep. Similar to ideas I've seen before as to how aliens would see the human race...pretty much all the same w/ a few insignificant differences.
mp
His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
Many economic markets are what are termed "market failures". This does not mean the kind of failure like we saw with the banks last month; it means a market that, when completely unfettered, does not allocate resources efficiently.
Sort of like a car engine without a flywheel or RPM limiter and a deaf fool at the throttle.
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
If 95% of white's had voted for McCain, you wouldn't be shouting racism?
You don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer. - Winston Churchill
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1019121&cid=25647027
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
Actually, that's what gave him a huge boost in popularity with the Conservative crowd.
They were hoping he WOULD die and then we'd have Palin as President.
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
His power is very limited as long as the GOP holds the filibuster-weapon over the senate's head. Something doesn't pass the senate, it doesn't get to Obama's desk for a signature. Everything can be frozen -- including Supreme Court Nominees. Given that up to 25% of respondents questioned (probably by FOX) felt "very afraid" *AFTER* Obama's win was confirmed, it doesn't take a genius to see that 25% of the population acting irrational stubborn -- not even considering irrationally violent actions over the course of the next 2-4 years and one can see that the nation could be headed for far worse social problems than we've ever encountered. All those right-wing "christianist" survivalist, nuke-collecting groups could find themselves aligning with the other "religious" extremists (islamic)... How about a holy-war of monotheist-cultural control-freaks who only care to sow chaos?"
I don't THINK this will happen, but mental-psychological distance between a right-wing militant christinist and a right-wing 'terrorist' (another word for an active> militant) islamist is pretty small if you think about it from an atheist, Confucius, or Buddhist or just "secularist" point of view.
It took us 28 years to get to this point of America being __barely__ willing to turn away from the direction we've been following since Reagan. He took us from negligible federal debt, where "personal debt" was only, just barely, not considered something from bad luck or bad morals, to over 3T$-Federal Debt and credit-card solicitation mania. I remember looking at the loan market before Reagan worked his VouDon (voodoo) -- credit was VERY tight -- I remember thinking, at the time, only those who didn't NEED credit (or a loan) could obtain it.
Credit market? in the past few years? Sure I'll loan you 125% the value of your overvalued house...*cough*. And Federal Debt? At the end of September we passed 10.1T$. I don't believe that included the bailout costs which are conservatively projected at 1T$, it __appeared__ that Bush&Co, Inc. were trying for one last meta-heist on the treasury before being kicked out of office -- you know how it works -- you hand Freddy and Fanny ( .3T$ ea, and when you get out, you get a job with an outrageous salary, 150B$ signing bonus, and a 150B$ golden parachute so when they are replaced by the next administration, they are cush'ed for life.
With or without severe measures, it will take longer than 1 presidential term to 'fix' the economy. Remember, the top tax rates before Reagan for multi-millionaires were, I believe, somewhere around 72-73% (or was that before Nixon?). Still, quite a bit above the rates in effect now OR those in effect before Bush-II, only a minimal economic triage which Obama has suggested as a first step in "fixing" our economy.
-l
This thread is for you to chatter and rant inanely about all the crap that everyone has gotten sick of hearing, in the hopes that you will get it out of your system, and not infect all of the other discussions with it. Enjoy yourselves, shouting into the void.
Religion is a bad thing when you get zealots bent on using legislation to force their beliefs on others. The Republicans have been hitching their wagon to that pony since the 80s. It came back to bite them in the ass this time. Instead of talking about issues and coming up with plans to help people, they decided to talk about abortion, gays, and Israel instead. Hopefully they will learn a lesson from this years vote and reevaluate their priorities.
Bias against religion means you easily mistake someone trying to force their beliefs upon you for just trying to uphold the ability for them to freely exercise their own beliefs in public. That includes upholding societal standards of morals and ethics. Don't confuse their goal. Besides, it isn't always about helping people. Some, not all, people just need to step up and be responsible by helping themselves instead of always saying "oh woe is me" and expecting someone to bail them out all thet time. I hardly would say that the Republicans lost because of abortion, gays, and Israel.
In fact, California, Arizona, and Florida all had the majority of the population vote *against* homosexual marriage thereby overturning the state Supreme Court decision (in California) which allows same-sex marriage. That says in at least those 3 states that societal standards lean toward traditional values and we all know how liberal "California" is. I put that in quotes because there are only a few hotspots in CA that are really liberal. The rest of the state is just like most other states which have conservative people. The current map of blues and reds spell that out with the West and NE displaying the majority of the blue but the majority of the country is red.
this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
You're right about the US military. While armed conflict is something to avoid, the US lost position as major power when they started keeping manned bases in previous enemy states like Japan. Lots of things got people galvanized to join the volunteer force over the years, but their resources are still spread. Sure, the US could draw in all those forces to redirect priorities, but considering lots of places could have an eye on force movement (including any state that can reach orbit), the 'secret' consolidation wouldn't remain that way for long. While the armed forces do have procedures to try and dodge such surveillance, no method is immune to being seen through.
You're right about the Chinese holding IOUs...What's to stop a newly capitalist China from wrapping up national debt from the USA into a collateral package to sell to a 3rd party for favors, influence, or labor? We might see more money flowing to African countries in the future without anything in return (because we already got something for it) if those IOUs are used and cashed in this manner. It's what caused a collapse in the housing sector, but international officers aren't likely to accept "we're broke" as an answer from a major commerce power.
Thankfully, the conservative crowd is not the majority. It alienated the middle while mobilizing the extreme, which ended up being a mistake.
His "official stance", which no doubt contradicts his past official stances, means nothing. The only thing that matters is his legislative record.
http://dir.salon.com/story/comics/tomo/2004/03/01/tomo/print.html
Your kind has a long and proud tradition.
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
Hard times are coming for the world, but working hard, with joy and passion, we can build a great world to live in.
Kudos, american people, and thank you.
Yeah, but you are also forgetting one thing? How much HIGHER would McCain's percentages be among black voters had he not been white, or supposedly the reincarnation of Bush? Tons of black folks voted AGAINST him for no reason but the skin color of Obama.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
The Glass-Steagall act probably should be reinstated,
Except there isn't any evidence that "unified banks" are any riskier than split banks, infact they have proven to be less riskier (to date), and were so even during the Great Depression. Glass-Steagall was a New Deal political gift to a particular business family.
Ummmm.....yeah.....welcome to the conversation. That was exactly how this all started, and is what we've been discussing this. Thanks for adding absolutely nothing new to the conversation. Let me know when you are ready to start paying attention.
A person who lived through the collapse of the soviet union once pointed out that in America, the only relevant political parties are the Capitalist party and the Capitalist party. Democrats and Republicans disagree on a handful of very minor issues, despite all the media trumpeting about one being "left" and one being "right."
Putin seems to have learned that lesson too. While wanting to go back to the glory of the Soviet and Tsarist days, he also wants Russia to seem democratic. So he created two parties who are free to disagree on all sorts of minor issues, as long as they obey his doctrine in the big stuff. Real alternatives (like Kasparov's movement) get persecuted.
Uh. Right. Since the Dutch have so much experience with positive African relations. I think Nelson Mandela might have a problem with the Dutch deigning to give any advice in this area whatsoever.
No...it is just such an amazing thing that someone should think that just because someone is born a white man today, that they should implicitly have some sort of shame or guilt about anything. In this case, he was implying that a white man should have some guilt or shame associated with race relations...and could relieve it by voting for a black man.
I was just wondering why ANYONE today would have shame or guilt for anything like slavery that happened so long ago that anyone associated with it is dead.
It just struck me as a strange premise to begin with...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
You're saying Howard Dean makes laws!??!
Geez...why did they go through all that money and trouble to elect Obama then?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
One last point to ponder... If he is willing to side-step this Constitutional mandate, and hide it... what other laws is he willing and eager to avoid? For someone who will swear to uphold and defend the Constitution, shouldn't he be willing to follow it?
Logic is the beginning of reason, not the end of it.
You completely missed my point about the Taliban. I think we should have decimated the Taliban. If we were going to really do something about Al-Qaeda, we should have done it properly. We didn't.
As far as Hussein goes: why did we target him? Think carefully on that, because Hussein was not the worst offender out there and never has been.
"Little is much when little you need."
See here. The analysis says Fox was more for McCain than the other networks. That's obvious from the numbers. MSNBC had 7 negative stories for every positive one for McCain, but four positives for every negative for Obama. There is no way to explain that away as not being left-leaning. Meanwhile, Fox's numbers weren't quite so lopsided.
But Fox, when comparing its own coverage of the candidates, was itself slightly biased towards Obama with the same negative coverage, but more positive and neutral coverage for Obama. In other words, Fox wasn't right-leaning, Fox was only less left-leaning than the other networks.
So I was wrong: Fox doesn't provide a balance. The whole thing is tilted to the left.
Well, hiding the matter would be a different thing entirely. A straight-out admission of whatever the facts maybe, and then doing whatever needs to be done, is obviously the proper course of action.
If this would make his presidency unconstitutional then the constitution is silly and needs to be changed.
Would you like a slice of toast?
What, you're complaining about my subject/verb agreement? "All" is collective, and therefore plural, so "[All] are" is correct.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Sen. Kerry's supporters booed his concession speech in 2004.
Because he ignored the problems in Ohio.
To heal the divide in this country, we must first realize that it is not one-sided.
Oh? And where are the Democratic equivalents to Ann Coulter? Tom Delay? Dick Cheney? The US Attorney scandal? The Don Seigleman prosecution? Torture?
No, the first step to healing this country is in prosecuting criminal Republicans, and driving the hard right into irrelevancy.
Of course. This is a fuzzy area of demography and survey research. The range would be between 59% (if all self-identified Hispanic or Latino considered themselves white in the interviews) and 74% (if none of self-identified Hispanic or Latino considered themselves white) Nonetheless, 66% is still more than the "majority" cited by the GP.
John McCain should have won the election. He was defeated by the racist voting pattern of the African-American community. Look at the CNN statistics.
95% of African-Americans voted for Obama.
You mean 95% of African-Americans voted for a guy who's half white? That's terrible!
Chairman of Democratic National Committee != leader of Democratic Party
Doh.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
He voted for the bailout. QED.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Well, not quite. It continued for a short while further under Truman.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Gays have the exact same marriage rights as everyone else. They can still marry someone of the opposite sex.
50 years ago, most US states had laws against interracial marriage. Your exact argument was made then: no one is being discriminated against, because everyone has the same right to marry someone ... of their own ethnicity.
50 years from now, opposition to gay marriage will look just as bigoted as our forebears' views look today. You know this is true.
Easier target than the others, probably. Why does the cop ticket the speeder at the back of the pack, who is going 11 over the limit, instead of the guy in the front going 20 over?
I doubt W. is stupid enough to just go after him because of the 1st Gulf War, or some sort of ego trip to please his daddy... He may play stupid very well, but don't let his act fool you.
Logic is the beginning of reason, not the end of it.
And I can keep doing it with so much karma to burn.
Well, there is a long standing method to update and modify the Constitution. Perhaps he should pursue this.
Hell, I'd love to see Arnold as president! Lol...
Logic is the beginning of reason, not the end of it.
No, no, it's Stephen Fry you want.
Would you like a slice of toast?
Under Bush we all got "Stimulus checks" redistribution of wealth, we "nationalized banks", we "nationalized insurance companies", we "nationalized brokerage houses", and we gave trillions in welfare to Iraq...
And now you're worried about socialism?
Welcome to last year.
Except that in Bush' case, it's not the people who benefit from it, but the corporations. And that, according to Mussolini at least, amounts to fascism, not socialism.
Those "certain inalienable rights" you may have heard of - they went out the window as soon as Obama and McCain became the two choices.
They've been out the window for a number of years already. I'm hoping Obama will restore them again.
Sorry, I have people at -1 filtered out, so I literally didn't see the post you were responding to, and only the "John McCain should have won the election." part was quoted, so I missed th joke.
Interesting wording... you're still here, but who exactly are you 'defending' us FROM?
Communism? Soviet Union for 50 years and then Russia? China?
Believe me, few things would make me happier than pulling our troops out of Europe and Asia, but it will never happen. Nor, no matter what percentage of their populace says, do their governments want us to.
If you pull out your military now, we promise we won't start any more wars, and we're quite sure we'll be fine without you here 'defending' us.
Not worried about you starting wars. Worried about you being steamrolled like Georgia.
Honestly, if the US pulled out of Europe and Asia, how long do you think South Korea, Ukraine, Poland, Georgia, Taiwan, UAE, and another dozen European counties would stay sovereign?
Apparently you have forgotten NATO as well.
Don't get me wrong, most countries are pretty thankful for some of the things the US has done in the past (e.g. the Berlin airlift that you mentioned), but it's a bit much to expect eternal and undying gratitude for just those few events
First of all, I don't want, nor am I the person to accept your "undying gratitude" for those few events like saving and returning your country. No idea how we got on this point, but my point was that we are still in Germany, South Korea, Japan after those wars and those countries are prospering specifically because of what we did after the wars that we didn't start.
, especially since the "rebuilding" you did was mostly because you bombed the cities to oblivion first (think of it this way: if yo hadn't bombed it, you wouldn't have had to pay to fix it...)
Well, someone had to stop that nasty Jew killing habit of Germany.
If you think that America didn't stop the spread of Communism throughout Europe and Asia, except GB (maybe), then you are fooling yourself.
BTW, they started it.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Thanks, no problem - at the time I'd posted, the post in question was at or 4 or 5 fer cryin' out loud!
Teaches me to maybe quote the parent in entirety sometimes.
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
n/t.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Marriage means, and always has meant, a man and a woman. Nothing has changed. Gays can still live together and fuck all they want.
Hint: if religious fundamentalists got their way, they wouldn't make gay marriage illegal. They'd make all sex out of wedlock illegal.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Because your post made no sense... We see a majority of whites voted for Obama, yet we see 95% of all blacks voted for Obama. And it's the whites who were racially motivated in their voting patterns?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
no one is being discriminated against, because everyone has the same right to marry someone ... of their own ethnicity.
But in that case, a black woman is treated differently (can marry black man/can't marry white man) than a white woman (can marry white man/can't marry black man). A gay man can marry the same type of person (woman) that I can, and we are both restricted from the same type of person (men). In what way have we been treated differently?
50 years from now, opposition to gay marriage will look just as bigoted as our forebears' views look today. You know this is true.
I'm sure future generations will wonder what the hell the big deal was. This generation is much more comfortable with gays than previous generations. In the course of just eight years, California has already gone from 61% opposed to gay marriage (proposition 22 in 2000) to 52% opposed (proposition 8, 2008). And I'm sure the next generation will be even more wiling to allow gay marriage.
I think the gay rights group has taken the wrong track with screaming that it is a civil rights issue and that people against it are just a bunch of bigoted homophobes. All I saw were ads that used the words 'discrimination', 'wrong', and other inflammatory words. I think a better track would have been to show pictures of the happy newly married couples, and talk about how great an institution marriage is, and that we should encourage as many people as possible to try it.
And Gavin Newsom and Jerry Brown abusing their powers trying to shove it down everyone's throats isn't helping there cause one damn bit. Most polls showed the 'No' vote winning until the video of Newsom smugly saying "Whether you like it or not, it's gonna happen!"
My post made no sense? We were sitting here discussing how the vote statistics were affected by the blacks voting according to race, then I mention how that was offset by the whites also voting according to race. Then along you come and happily remind us to consider the effects of blacks voting according to race. Thanks, we hadn't thought of that.
Oh, yeah. I almost forgot:
White Men = 41% Obama, 57% McCain
White Women = 46% Obama, 53% McCain
You might want to double-check the definition of majority. And I'm the one whose post doesn't make sense?
In this case, he was implying that a white man should have some guilt or shame associated with race relations...and could relieve it by voting for a black man.
I don't think so, he was responding to somebody who obviously had some kind of guilt or complex about race. Acknowledging it is the starting point to working through it.
What I find odd is that rather than acknowledge that some white people feel this way, you react in this defensive fashion, proclaiming your lack of guilt.
I was just wondering why ANYONE today would have shame or guilt for anything like slavery that happened so long ago that anyone associated with it is dead.
What's so hard to understand about it? People who share the same social grouping and ancestry as ourselves committed atrocities. It's sort of like - what if somebody in your family murdered someone - would you not feel slightly embarrassed about having a name and bloodline in common with that person?
Or what about when when a redneck spouts ignorant racist rhetoric, or commits violence against other races? Don't you feel like some of that negative perception affects you, even if you didn't partake in the racism?
Then there's the fact that much of what white people have today (status, power, wealth) still derives from the slave-holding era, and the ongoing inequality that followed it. How can you not feel a little uneasy about that idea? If you were born black, you likely wouldn't have had the same chances. Humans are social creatures with cultures and shared experiences that go well beyond our own lifetimes.
... and then they built the supercollider.
He voted for the bailout. QED.
So you think if McCain won, he would also have worsened the depression.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
So you think if McCain won, he would also have worsened the depression.
Yes, definitely.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Out of curiosity - is there anyone you think could improve the situation?
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
Ron Paul.
Keep your eyes to the sky.
Once, just once in my life, I'd like to find an intellectually honest liberal who didn't reflexively jump to ad hominem attacks when their precious little worldviews are challenged. You lefties claim to like dissent, but I guess it is only when it is you doing it. Otherwise, said dissenters are "small minded."
No, I think the "small minded" were the people who said before the election that only racism could explain an Obama loss. As opposed to the fact that a guy who is an empty suit with no resume to speak of, and *zero* legislative accomplishments as a senator might not be qualified to be leader of the free world. POTUS is not supposed to be an entry-level job. I'd like to see some experience first, and his backers actually point to some accomplishments other than "wow, he's so cool!" It's scary, like some fucking cult, seeing these glassy-eyed Obamites looking at him like he is the messiah. And why? What exactly has the guy done, other than be an (admittedly) articulate black man?
So please excuse my "small mind" if I suspect, after hearing so many people talking about the "historic election of a black man as president," that said historic nature of his candidacy might have factored in to some of the Obama voters' minds. Please.
I'm sorry if your scientific sample of your circle friends (who say that raising taxes is good for the economy and bending over and doing what other countries want us to do is best for our foreign policy) tells you otherwise, but IMO, this was the ultimate affirmative action hire, the ultimate leap of faith, about a guy we know nothing about, who has no accomplishments to speak of other than running for office, and hasn't run so much as a taco stand, let alone a city or a state.
Wow, "well-spoken, articulate, extremely intelligent, calm facing the most nasty lies about him, and a genuinely good human being." Sounds like my grandma. Maybe we should make her president!
LOL, I guess you have seen his IQ test and SATs, and have known him personally for years to know all of these things about his character. But wait, I thought character was off limits! We can't talk about the fact that he launched his career at the house of a terrorist, sat in the pew of a racist, America-hating lunatic preacher (his spiritual mentor) for 20 years, and had financial dealings and a personal friendship with a corrupt slumlord. But he's so cool!
Now, go back to your personality cult worship until January 20th, when we will all see how this magical "change" occurs
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
What election?
WAY off now... 3614 comments, and it's probably not done yet.
My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
Sure, thousands of people.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
So 44% of whites voting for the black candidate is racist; 5% of blacks voting for the white candidate is not racist.
Just want to make sure I understand how this works...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Wow! I'm convinced! Sounds like a just the person I'd trust to the job!
Awesome! Can you tell me more about this new political force? I'm going to try to become a US citizen by 2012, just so I can vote for "Thousands of people"
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
In 2004, 40% of whites voted for John Kerry; in 2008, 43% of whites voted for Obama. So, while a small change, more whites voted for Obama - percentagewise - than voted for Kerry. They've voted more for the black Democrat candidate than a previous white Democrat candidate.
Of course, the black votes were 11% for Bush in 2004, and 5% for McCain in 2008, showing a pretty dramatic change - in absolute AND relative measures - in the racial bias of this election.
So white guys increasing their vote by 10% for the black Democrat candidate as compared to the previous white candidate is racist. Blacks dropping their vote by 50% for the current white Republican as compared to 4 years ago is not racist.
Got it.
Source for stats: CNN 2004 election results.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
No, I don't think you understand. You must be too ignorant. I wasn't saying any portion was or was not racists. I was saying that IF you want too conclude that 30% over the non-white, non-black average is racists, then you should also conclude that 20% under that same average is also racist in the opposite direction. Then I went on to emphasize that there are other factors that can explain the difference than race, but that if you really want to try to peg it on something, there are some other silly things that explain it equally well.
I can't beleive I have to sit here and summarize this entire conversation for you? First you are too lazy (or stupid?) to read it, so you come in proposing something that was the entire basis of the start of the conversation, and now you are making claims that don't even fit with what's been said up to this point. Really, if you can't keep up with the adult conversation, do yourself a favor and go play in the sandbox.
Sigh....You aren't even worth the time. You can't even seem to understand how many factors there are here that influence things. You appear to want to peg this all onto a single issue like race, and are making all these arguments. Gee, have you bothered to consider things like how much higher turnout was this time, how many people were discouraged from voting in the past that voted this time, etc?
Lower income people were more impacted under bush than were higher income. They are also the ones that will see a larger benefit under Obama than McCain, which means voting for Obama would be in their financial interest (at least short term, which is what most people think about). Lets see...what race typically has the lower income jobs. So there are a couple factors there, and it only took me a minute to think of them. Imagine what you could do with your mind if you actually used it to think for a minute, instead of just propagating racist agenda.
But I understand. You want to blame everything on racism, so you appear to be racist yourself. Why don't you just come out and say it: "McCain lost this election because those damn niggers are racist".
Got it.
You didn't ask for a particular recommendation, smart ass.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
>> J.C. once said (as translated) "The poor you will always have with you".
Yea, I remember reading that in his catalogue as a kid.
Atlas Shrugged : Thematic Story
Oh, pardon me. I was referring to things other than roads and bridges and such; I was referring to food that's not full of mushed-up rats, drugs that actually do what they say they do, streets that aren't full of starving old people, and all the other things which separate us from a neofeudal nightmare.
Yes. Because they don't take their batshit ideas seriously.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
My argument is a strawman? Obama's tax plan has been widely publicized; the only taxes he's raising are on the ridiculously wealthy, which will be brought up to Clintonian levels. McCain's would not have. That's the difference--as I said, 4.6% on the top marginal tax rate. For this, Obama is apparently a socialist. If there's some other portion of his actual stated tax policy which reeks to you of socialism, I'd be interested in hearing about it.
'Course, all of this apparently means that America chooses socialism. I'll be hailing our new commissars any moment now, I'm sure.
I can't tell what you mean by your particular iteration of No-True-Scotsman, as I doubt you could find anyone who doesn't "believe in liberty". Try a little harder to not speak in libertarian code words. (No, I don't think "liberty" is a dirty word; I just have a sense that you're using it to mean something very specific.) I know that libertarianism does some horrific things to language, but try not to do them, just for a few moments here.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Your tolerance is amazing! Thanks for your stunning display of unity and coming together... Only five ad hominem attacks in two paragraphs. I'm sure Obama would be proud!
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
A) I never ran on a campaign of coming together with others, so I'm not sure what you are trying to get me on there.
B) I have no interest in coming together with people who clearly have racist principals (as you appear to, with your "Obama won because blacks are racist" stance). Yes, racists are just ignorant people who need to be educated, but educating them is not my job, nor do I desire it to be (I prefer spending my time doing things that aren't virtually certain to fail).
Learn some social skills. Then, rather than being a pedantic pain in the ass, you'll be able to understand the implied as well as explicit content of people's statements.
Read the above several times - it will help you in your social life as well as on slashdot.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
Learn some social skills.
That's advice you would do well to take, troll.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Correct, but that did not happen here. There is simply no way Obama had a 28:1 ratio of good to bad in reality compared to McCain. That sounds like straight-up guy vs. a criminal.
The businesses rely on some sort of disconnect when it comes to their money. AT&T emblazoned their logo on bags for the Democratic convention around the time the Democratic-run Congress passed the telecom amnesty. Nobody seemed to care. It's like people care in general, but nobody goes after a specific company for doing it unless that company later does something bad, like Enron.
And even then people don't necessarily care. Obama was able to lay blame for Fannie May and Freddie Mac on the Republicans, yet he is the second-highest recipient of their money in only a couple years in office, ahead of senators who have been taking their money for decades. Nobody seemed to care.
It's all in the selling, not in the facts. Obama was just a better salesman, with the help of his press corps, uh, I mean the media.
That's advice you would do well to take, troll.
As they say... "takes one to know one". Troll.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
Or what about when when a redneck spouts ignorant racist rhetoric, or commits violence against other races? Don't you feel like some of that negative perception affects you, even if you didn't partake in the racism?"
Nope....not at all.
"Then there's the fact that much of what white people have today (status, power, wealth) still derives from the slave-holding era, and the ongoing inequality that followed it. How can you not feel a little uneasy about that idea?"
Again....it was a LONG time ago, it is time to get over it, and move on. How long exactly should we wallow in the past. I think it is time to get over it, and that anyone that uses that today is using it as a crutch. Time to get out of the pity party, and move on with life and today's opportunities.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
well, i guess that depends on what you mean by important. To me his race never mattered I suppose to many people it does, but I was never raised that way. If you support him primarily because of his race that is just as wrong and racist and voting agianst him because of it.
From my prespective this election was between two candidates , one who is inherently immoral in his thought process and one who was incompitent. The immoral candidate won, because people voted thier pocket book and now millions of people will pay with thier lives , because he will ensure legalized abortion continues.
Personally I would have rather Alley Keys been the first black president. He would have been better then either of the candidates who were run by the two major parties.
I consider his election a defeat for America , he will make change all right. The wrong kind.
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
Nope....not at all.
Then I'm guessing you lack empathy, perhaps some sort of Asperger's like condition?
Again....it was a LONG time ago, it is time to get over it, and move on.
No, it wasn't a long time ago, and racism has continued to this day. You really think that when slavery ended, race relations were just hunky-dory? Again, it's likely that as a white person, even today, your lifestyle and status has benefited from a racist society.
How long exactly should we wallow in the past.
I never said anything about wallowing. But we also shouldn't sweep it under the rug, which is what you appear to be doing. We still need to deal with racial issues, not pretend they don't exist.
... and then they built the supercollider.
They're vital components of the civilization you live in. They're things that everyone benefits from, whether or not they paid for them individually.
Except that it's been tried, and failed miserably. The unexpected tragedy-farce of an era in which these problems no longer exist is that we apparently forget why the solutions we put in place were created.
If it's cheaper to fire the ratcatcher, they will. They did, in the early 20th century. This is why we have the FDA and the USDA. (Both of which have been cut back so far that they can't reasonably inspect this country's food supply at this point.)
Try and sell laudanum as a cure for cancer, and see how far you get. (I suppose the DEA would get you before the FDA did, but they'd both want a piece.) Basic foods are cheap and widely available largely because of programs like WIC and we don't have massive shantytowns because of Section 8.
If you're attempting to make an argument for libertarianism by pointing out the problems that we don't currently have, you're doing a terrible job of it.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
An income of $250,000 per year does not make one "ridiculously wealthy".
According to the Current Population Survey, less than two percent of households make over a quarter million per year. That's less than one in fifty. (Note that this is households, not individuals, as well.) It's a tiny, tiny slice. These people are the few, the elite, and it's insane to hold our nation hostage to their whims.
Obama was called a socialist based on his comment about "spread(ing) the wealth around".
Here, I'll quote McCain in 2000, arguing that people who make more should pay a higher proportion of their income in taxes, which is by definition a leveling of income.
McCain: So, look, here's what I really believe, that when you are -- reach a certain level of comfort, there's nothing wrong with paying somewhat more.
Ooh, looks like we dodged a socialist bullet there.
Who believes that a 35% tax rate on income over 300 some odd thousand dollars is "rugged individualism"?
Wasn't Bush an avatar of rugged individualism, an incarnation of the free market itself?
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Civilization existed for thousands of years before the modern regulatory and welfare state.
Yes, and it was, where larger than a simple tribal band, pyramid-shaped, with a wealthy few atop masses of exploited laborers.
The market did not "fail miserably". What problems there were with meatpacking, for example, were well on their way to being remedied when the Pure Food and Drug Act came about. The only thing the Pure Food and Drug Act did was limit competition at the behest of big meatpacking firms, representatives of such firms being the ones who wrote and oversaw the regulations.
That's quite an assertion. Care to back it up?
So where are all the rats?
Well, there's been a sharp uptick in meat recalls due to contamination--that's "shit in the meat", in the vernacular--recently. Please do explain how there's not actually shit in the meat, though; I'd like to hear this.
But there are still people selling snake oil. Yet most people see through their scams.
There are laws regulating how these things can be labeled and what they can contain, which is why people aren't overdosing their kids on unlabeled laudanum.
Rice and beans and other basic foods are cheap and widely available, and would continue to be if WIC were eliminated. WIC exerts no downward pressure on their prices. What the US government does do however, is exert upward pressure on food prices through tariffs and agricultural policy.
Wait, you're pointing to US agricultural subsidies as something which makes basic staple foods expensive? How?
If capitalism causes shanty towns, we should expect to see more shanty towns in more capitalist places, instead of less capitalist places. We do not in fact see that.
Please, please tell that to the inhabitants of those things-which-are-not-shanty-towns outside any major city where globalization has taken hold.
And, again, I'm pointing out that Section 8 and the like are keeping people out of shantytowns, and you're responding that we don't have shantytowns here in the United States. Do you think you're arguing against my point?
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca