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The Myth of Upgrade Inevitability Is Dead
Several readers pointed out a ComputerWorld UK blog piece on the expanding ripples of the Vista fiasco. Glyn Moody quotes an earlier Inquirer piece about Vista, which he notes "has been memorably described as DRM masquerading as an operating system": "Studies carried out by both Gartner and IDC have found that because older software is often incompatible with Vista, many consumers are opting for used computers with XP installed as a default, rather than buying an expensive new PC with Vista and downgrading. Big business, which typically thinks nothing about splashing out for newer, more up-to-date PCs, is also having trouble with Vista, with even firms like Intel noting XP would remain the dominant OS within the company for the foreseeable future." Moody continues: "What's really important about this is not so much that Vista is manifestly such a dog, but that the myth of upgrade inevitability has been destroyed. Companies have realized that they do have a choice — that they can simply say 'no.' From there, it's but a small step to realizing that they can also walk away from Windows completely, provided the alternatives offer sufficient data compatibility to make that move realistic."
the last sentence is a load of bollocks. People stick with XP because then they don't have to change their existing software. Walking away from windows would force just that
I really struggle to comprehend companies which upgrade without doing a full cost/benefit analysis first. Surely when upgrading a significant number of machines with a new OS, you must consider a) the benefits b)the cost c)training requirements and d)other options. By other options I mean such things as Other OSes including Linux and Mac OS X - and in order to do that you need to speak to experts in each field, not just a MS Expert who will only tell you the benefits of Vista and the downsides of everything else. I really do not see the benefit of upgrading from XP to Vista for most business users - who, lets face it, are doing web, email, word and excel. Is there really anything they can;t do just now? Or anything they really NEED from Vista? What about Mac OS X - doesn't that provide much the same 'new' features?
Observing that one does not have to upgrade is an application of, "If it's not broken, don't fix it." In the same situation, walking away from Windows completely would be even more stubborn resistance to this principle than merely upgrading Windows XP to Vista and beefing up hardware.
What? Is there an echo in here?
Good jesus someone needs to move slashdot out of this giant cave that echoes sounds for years upon end.
all they have to do to get their market back is stop releasing security patches or release lower and lower quality patches.
Hey, don't pretend like you have a choice anyway. Vista is co crap, that you have your choice now. If Windows 7 will be good enough, hw vendors stop writing Xp drivers, and your choice vaporised.
The minimum requirements for Windows XP are 300Mhz CPU and 64MB of RAM. XP was designed for yesterday's hardware. My work laptop is XP and my home laptop is Vista and I found that Vista handles my 2GB of memory a lot better than XP. For example, task switching from Half Life 2 to the desktop is handled a lot better in Vista than XP. If all the bullshit was removed from Vista, it would perform better than XP. Unfortunately, that's not the case.
From there, it's but a small step to realizing that they can also walk away from Windows completely
No way. I'm as huge a unix and Free Software proponent as anyone here, but even I can see that statement is utterly idiotic. The motivation to stay with XP is the desire to not change. Change takes effort, which is generally not worth it if things are working fine at the moment. The "don't fix it if it's not broken" theory.
The simple fact is that most computers, both hardware and software, are generally "good enough" these days. This means that the most efficient thing for you to be using is often the one you are using at the moment. To suggest otherwise demands a substantial benefit, and Microsoft is (hopefully) figuring out that they are no longer offering such a benefit. Free alternatives may indeed offer substantial benefits, but it's generally in more obscure things like "not being tied to a single vendor" that are not a direct impact on most people's daily computer needs.
Now, it's still great that people seem to be finally jumping off the Microsoft upgrade-treadmill, but it's going to be a while yet before they decide other upgrades might be a viable option...
Ce n'est pas une signature automatique.
From there, it's but a small step to realizing that they can also walk away from Windows completely, provided the alternatives offer sufficient data compatibility to make that move realistic."
Sure, the group that says "if it works, don't break it" are going to throw out all their old applications and start using a completely new set of applications, if only the data compatibility is good enough. Maybe you should start at the application front? Because if people won't switch from Windows/Word to Windows/OpenOffice they certainly won't move from Windows/Word to Linux/OpenOffice. Linux/WINE/Word is hardly the answer.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Like most people in IT I spend a certain part of the year helping out those less fortunate than myself. Namely all the friends, friends of the wife, some bloke I met in the pub and the school in getting their computers to work. Most recently I fixed a couple of laptops and an internet connection, one was on XP the other on Vista, the wife asked to have her (XP) PC "look like" her husbands as she like the look of the interface. When I said it was a different operating system she said "Isn't it Windows then?"
The point is of course that it is Windows and the difference between XP and Vista for most users does just come down to the pretty window manager... until stuff doesn't work. The XP box was back-online in under 10 minutes, the Vista box took me longer due to the wonderful UAC and a driver problem.
Most of the time however I feel like a Mac salesman, I turn up with my Mac (the trouble shooting box) run all the tests and have them thinking "ooooh that must be hard to use because its so powerful and techy" then let them play around with it for a few minutes. I'd say that around 50% of those people I've supported this year who are looking at replacements are now looking at a Mac.
Now a Slashdot poll on what is the correct payment for these unofficial support calls (often at a party or other social function) would be good. Right now I'm getting around two bottles of wine and a decent meal out of it.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
With Windows 7 looking around the corner, I think companies will skip the monster called Vista and just hop on the train again when 7 is released.
Because all that everyone ever uses on a PC is MS Office.
Nobody uses PCs to play games or godforbid does any graphic, 3D, CAD, audio, video... etc. etc. -work.
These aren't the upgrades you are looking for. Have some FUD and move along.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
People do not upgrade "just because". Well, sure, a small percentage do (you know, people who just have to get the latest and shiniest... YOU know what I mean, right?).
For the majority, either they upgrade "by accident" - when buying a new PC that, accidentally, comes with a new OS.
For businesses, it is not an accident, they evaluate that the OS 1) runs all the soft they use and 2) complies with hardware they use, and 3) is sustainable (security patches, support etc).
Because of that, businesses WILL have to upgrade, together with us, once XP support stops (hey, 2014 is NOT a long way out!), they buy new hardware (oops, sales printers don't have XP drivers anymore, or can't sync with the latest BlackBerry thingies!!!). Last, but not least, they upgrade MSOffice, servers and then, surprise, to use the new features they need components that are Vista-only.
Moving away? Macs or Linux, *IF they comply to the same requirements: newest hardware, stable support and problem-solving, and of course playing nice with the latest corporate drones gadgets!
http://www.automatiq.se
I work for a hospital. Our medical records software does not support vista yet. General Electric is the vendor and they have recently announced vista compatibility will happen some time next year.
If they had been ready two years ago we might have tried it. With today's economic situation I don't think we can afford to upgrade.
So no vista for a 5,000 employee organization.
There are hundreds of other hospitals with the same medical records software.
XP just works. Why would anyone upgrade?
IIRC it was round and abouts of WindowsME that Microsoft got it in their heads to actually restrict some of the network features. Talking about it to a Microsoft employee, their basic "explanation" was that NT and 2k were for businesses and 98 and ME were for the home. I don't have issue with Microsoft having different pricing for businesses, if you're making a profit off their product it makes perfect sense to ask for more.
I don't remember the issue, perhaps it was logging onto a domain. Perhaps they also made it a pain to display all the workgroups on a given network. I don't know. During the win9x/me age, it was more problematic since were programs and hardware that just wouldn't work with NT/2k
So now we have Vista. I have no direct experience with it but from my understanding some features I find "useful" are missing in the home/pro editions. That seems to be the biggest insult and certainly a good reason to avoid the vista 4 flavor insanity. For example I use fax from time to time. Not often, but when dealing with medical shit they use fax. It seems I need business or ultimate vista to do "fax", well either that or get 3rd party support for it.
But like with most people I'm sticking with XP until such time as there is actually a reason to upgrade. I said the same thing about win2k, and unfortunately there was some adobe program that "required" xp.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Microsoft is only putting real effort into both into Vista, so if users have any interest in either, they'll be forced to upgrade, sooner or later.
Big business, which typically thinks nothing about splashing out for newer, more up-to-date PCs, is also having trouble with Vista, with even firms like Intel noting XP would remain the dominant OS within the company for the foreseeable future.
Bollocks. Big businesses (like, say, Intel) run a 3-5 year upgrade cycle (closer to 5 these days), based around both hardware cycles (typically due to leasing arrangements) and software certification. The _earliest_ any intelligent person would expect Vista to start appearing in big business IT (outside of pilot programs, testing and CxO laptops) is the beginning of 2009, and more likely around the beginning of 2010.
What's really important about this is not so much that Vista is manifestly such a dog, but that the myth of upgrade inevitability has been destroyed. Companies have realised that they do have a choice â" that they can simply say âoenoâ. From there, it's but a small step to realising that they can also walk away from Windows completely, provided the alternatives offer sufficient data compatibility to make that move realistic.
Bollocks. Those staying with XP are doing so because it is a known quantity. If they're not prepared to move to the mostly-known-quantity of Vista, they sure as hell aren't going to step into the complete unknowns of OS X or Linux.
That may not have been the case before, but the similar poor uptake of Microsoft's OOXML, taken together with the generally good compatibility of OpenOffice.org with the original Microsoft Office file formats, implies that we may well be near the tipping point for migrations to free software on the desktop..
So 2009 will be the year of the Linux desktop ? Just like 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001, 2000 and 1999 were going to be ?
I'm obviously not the only one thinking along these lines. Last weekend, Dell was advertising its new Inspiron Mini 9 in at least one national newspaper. This would have been unthinkable even a year ago, when the company's fear of upsetting the mighty Microsoft by mentioning the âoeLâ word would have been too great, and is further evidence that GNU/Linux is indeed becoming a mainstream option.
Bollocks. Dell have been selling servers, workstations and desktops with Linux installed for *years*.
In summary, the writer is a clueless fool, although that should had been obvious as soon as the phrase "quotes an earlier Inquirer piece [...]" appeared.
Windows 7 has had glowing reports from everyone I know who's installed the beta and they find it incredibly fast, reliable and easy to use and that's only a beta> Microsoft have gone through every major critisism of Vista and fixed it or taken a better approach to it.
The only thing that was 'wrong' with Vista that currently remains is the DRM but that was a whole load of FUD to begin with. Don't want DRM? Don't buy DRM protected content that won't play on software without the DRM features Vista has.
As for no need to upgrade, XP is approaching the end of its lifespan, it's not designed for technologies such as SSDs nor is it really designed for Netbooks (the only reason it runs well on them is because XP was designed to run on 500mhz systems with 512mb ram). software is starting to hit the 4gb ram limit of 32bit OS' and it's not going to be worth spending a lot of time and money 'upgrading' to xp 64 when it would cost them little extra to upgrade to 7.
Shortened version: When MS last had an OS flop, they followed it up with their most successful OS ever.
See title for content of post.... :)
While it wasn't as fully featured as the latest version of Word, there wasn't a lot that I wanted to do that Works was too limited for. Modern machines have hundreds of times more RAM and a similar increase in processing power and really don't do a whole lot more.
Since I'm a software designer and must support the latest standard, I upgraded to Vista so I can make sure that my programs are compatible.
Its been nothing but pain.
I'm very fanatic about keeping my system clean and functioning well, I don't install superfluous applications and am very careful about what I do install.
The problem is, VISTA seems to slowly degrade in stability over time with blue-screens appearing quite often after a few months of regular day to day use. Once it gets to more than 2-3 blue screens a day, I restore the OS from a clean image and then it works well for a while longer until the blue screens appear again.
The funny thing is, the blue screens seem to be from different system components (usbhost.sys, tcpip.sys, memory faults, etc...). If you may think this has something to do with hardware failure (which was my initial guess seeing references to USB and other hardware drivers crashing), you'd be wrong as a clean install or running XP gets rid of all these problems. And I'm not using any weird USB devices either, only Flash Drives and the occasional SD card reader.
Zoom Player Lead Dev.
My mac is still running Tiger and I don't see the need to upgrade to some other cat and I'm still running Mandriva 2007.
The days where I had to have the last are gone. And I consider myself a nerd. Normal users care even less.
Note, well I lied , I do have one laptop running Vista and it's OK. But I don't see the need to upgrade to W7 when it comes.
It's time to realise that Abble's products are the biggest abomination these days. Just say NO to the dumb iAbble way!!
Oh, I can't. So upgrades are inevitable for most people - just as soon as their machines die.
No sig today...
This is really something new for Microsoft, isn't it? It's not as if there are people still using Windows 2000 anywhere... Oh, wait.
Everytime there is a new version of any operating system this same thing happens. People say that there is no compelling reason to upgrade. A bunch of people draw the line and never upgrade. Doom and gloom is predicted for the future.
This is why there are still people using OS/2, AmigaOS, Windows 9x and even Windows 3.1.
But life goes on, and eventually the most of the general population does upgrade. New computers are purchased, business cases are made to upgrade entire organisations and software is purchased that requires a newer OS. The upgrade cycle doesn't happened in a huge wave. It is more of a constant flow.
The reason for this is the generally accepted one: that there are never compelling reasons to do so. However, once you do get used to a new OS, you tend find it hard to go back again. Yes, we have all heard the stories of people immediately downgrading new computers when buying Vista, but so many of those stories fail to take into account the crapware installed by the PC maker that also gets wiped when reinstalling the OS.
With regards to vista compatibility issues.
The biggest issue with vista compatibility is that with User Account Control, you can't write into the "Program Files" directory, even as administrator.
Microsoft now requires that all data written by a software be stored in the "AppData" directory.
So how do developers react?
The good developers split their program files between the static files (which go into the "Program Files" directory) and dynamic files (files that need to be written to which go in the "AppData" directory).
What do the lazy programmers do? Put their entire program into the "AppData" directory and avoid any hassle altogether.
So now, the "AppData" directory essentially becomes the new "Program Files" directory, but... The users are 99% unaware of this and the "AppData" directory (which there are several of) gets contaminated with more junk which is harder to find.
Zoom Player Lead Dev.
journos quoting journos...how could it not be true?
Your failure is running M$ Office.
Go get a copy of OpenOffice. http://www.openoffice.org/
Microsoft's problem isn't really Vista, the bit of software.
Their major problem is their lack of understanding that good operating systems can't be created overnight and chucked on the shelves like white goods items under pressure of Sales and Marketing ... not even in a 3-year "overnight". Operating systems evolve into being good, and once they're getting close to being usable then you don't chuck them out just because you want new product in the catalog. Not if you're half sane.
And MS also seems to misunderstand the longevity of operating systems, the attachment that users form with them, people's reluctance to change, and the simple fact that something that works doesn't need to be replaced ... software doesn't wear out, nor obsoleted given incremental upgrades. The "all change" paradigm that seems to hold in MS is in total disregard of commonsense.
And lastly, MS has a real problem in understanding that people buy operating systems to serve their own needs, not to serve the needs of 3rd party content providers --- that's a severe requirements mismatch.
Vista also has technical issues of course, but MS has plenty of manpower to fix those. What I'm not sure it does have the ability to fix is its totally backwards perception of what they should be doing in this area.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
Sorry, but openoffice does not contain all the features of office yet. Its getting better, but the functionality just isn't there yet.
The only paid ms upgrade we ever did (other than paying the windows tax on a new pc) was for xp for usb support on one box (yes that support sucked). We used to be big in NT [no usb],
We are now a 100% linux shop,
I have a little experience with vista - a staff member who upgraded his home pc had to rethink internet connection, buy a new printer (not supported in vista anymore) and change isp because that vista software and the big branded isp a 'o' l kept crashing. when he upgraded.
TCO wise - a bad investment for him
Family wise My father has Vista and with huge amounts of memory and after you spend a a day removing the additional Microsoft crap software and ban ie from executing means its ok.
However i completely failed to burn a dvd in his writer using the m/s user software and that was with admin rights - i made some very nice mug mags though before i copied service pack 1 onto a linux host and made a proper cd disk with some decent cd/dvd writing software.
Not good.
The expression "NO, I WILL NOT UPGRADE" is showing a disconnection from Redmond. "This hardware is fine, I will not switch to Vista, thank you".And from there, from that point of rebelion, other alternatives sounds plausible.
If you are feeling that Vista is a scam, and that someone is trying to push you to buy new hardware, when you are told that there is a FREE version of an OS that lets you stay with your hardware and is community based you hear bells from heaven.
Donde Ser Geek No Duele
Hi All, I have found that openSuSE 11.0 works so well that I've decided to replace my Notebook HDD, and put my existing 160 drive in a USB portable device case. I'll save that, and run Fedora 10 64-bit on my new 250 GB HDD. Hey, I looked at Vista, and it was a dog. I remember when companies were reluctant to upgrade from Win2000. If it works, it works. Save what you are using, and those thoughts of running the latest, and greatest Microsoft are really dumb. I've run Linux and all those open source goodies for about 6 - 7 years now. I wonder what the guys @ Slashdot are running.
JJMacey On The Jersey Shore
Making a logical comment - HERE, on Slashdot?!
Don't you know by now that when someone mentions Windows or Microsoft you should put on your best "hate-face" and go "GRRRRR"!?
Likewise, as soon as someone mentions Linux you should put on your best "smart-face" and go "A-Ha"!?
And should someone mention anything about Apple you should just smile like hell cause you just had a multiple orgasm.
Don't you know that Windows are made from stolen fetuses of prospective Linux programmers?
When the mother is asleep during her last trimester, Bill Gates swoops in through the window (hence the name of the OS) on his leathery wings, holding a coathanger and snatches that fetus right out of her womb.
Fetuses are then thrown into a giant blender, and later boiled below a huge board covered with cat excrement.
The power of Linux is so strong in those unborn programmers that their life juices condense and wash out the excrement off the board in the form of code, which Bill then steals for the next version of his unholy OS.
Something is lost in transcription, naturally, plus while all geniuses those babies do lack the experience, ergo - Windows sucks.
Didn't they teach you anything in school?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Sure... Its a troll.
Suggesting using PCs for anything but MS Office... Pure trollage.
What? No "Flamebait" and "Overrated" moderations too?
Somebody is slacking... I'll tell on you to Taco*...
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
At a hospital I consult, we use the E-Film PACS viewer to allow doctors to look at patient's XRays, MRIs, CT Scans etc. The problem with Vista is that even at this date, E-Film does not still work.
https://www.merge.com/EMEA/estore/content.aspx?pname=eFilm%20Workstation%E2%84%A2&returnUrl=&productID=185&contentTypeID=4
I think it could be because of DRM and video stuff, but that is the job of Microsoft to worry.
And if as per recent reports, Windows 7 is just Windows Vista with rebranding, then XP will be the last version of Windows for a very long time indeed.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Can't agree with that.
If you're talking about the home user, then they will change as soon as they buy new hardware. They will take what they are given and they will like it. Just go into any computer shop and open your ears: Dad is in there, he's heard bad things about Vista and he's fairly sure he doesn't want it - but he still leaves the shop with it under his arm. When he gets home, he finds he's not happy, but there is nothing he can do - and unless he can get someone to downgrade it (which he's not comfortable about either) he's stuck with it. Whether that means that he will switch really depends on what Mac/Linux can offer to that market segment.
Small businesses will operate in a similar fashion, but because they have better budgets for hardware upgrades and the availability of technically capable individuals for advice and support, they won't take the crap and will be a lot less resistant to change (except for the accounts "department" - because they use balance sheets to determine software quality).
As for the medium to large business user - they cannot use unsupported software, so if XP ever ends up in that state they will have to change.
The problem they have right now is that Vista represents too much of a cost overhead to support internally, for at best no advantage, or more typically severe costs in terms of reduced productivity or hardware upgrades.
They currently live in an overlap which XP represents, but as that overlap shrinks they will start seriously looking at alternatives.
On top of this, those involved in making the decisions may be going one step further and projecting a future where every 12-24 months a new version of Windows appears and with it a repeat of the current uncertainty. If they are, then good business sense says that, unless Microsoft put guarantees in place (which must be based on what they have, not what the intend to have), then it is time to start planning for change.
Genesis 1:32 And God typed
Being sure that the word document would appear the same to others would be nice.
I struggled to fit my CV in two pages - but if I open it with OO it is suddenly formatted somewhat differently, and a line or two escapes to a third page.
Now suppose that I edited the CV in OO.
Statistically, whoever is going to read it is more likely to use MS office to do so. How can I be sure that it is displayed properly and I don't make an ass of myself ?
If your answer is "check with ms word" - why should I use OO at all then ?
If your answer is "send PDF" - well, I tried once, too many times they didn't know how to open it. And while I agree in theory that it's not a very good sign about a company that the receptionist or the HR person only knows MS office, I am not willing to give up that position based only on that.
Unfortunately OO still has a long way to go, and so does wine.
Even the latest EeePC models still come with XP (or Linux). Windows Business licenses allow installation of XP, and you still get the occasional non-netbook machine with XP pre-installed. However from the summary itself, if you really want to stay with XP, one option is just to buy a *used* XP machine. There are people still running Mac Classics out there.
Most of the world still runs MS office and while i agree open office is pretty much on par with office its compatibility with office is still not up to par for any higher level formatting.
So you run into a problem where you could have a well formatted nice looking document in open office (such as a resume) and then send it to your recipient who opens it in MS office to find the text misaligned and everything about 1/4 to the left of where it should be.
As a stand alone product open office is good, for a straight to the printer product, open office is excellent, but if you are ever sending out .docs or .xls files you're playing russian roulette with your look of "professionalism".
"Big business, which typically thinks nothing about splashing out for newer, more up-to-date PCs"
Aren't businesses typically a lot after the curve when it comes to upgrading to a new OS? (Or, for that matter, to new hardware.)
Now if only Linux was ready for the Desktop.
Oh well, there's always next year.
In my experience files made in microsoft office look different depending on which version of office is used to open them. We are in the process of switching all of our users to a single version of microsoft office because of constant complaints from users who make a doc, send it to another user who opens it to find it looks 'funky'.
So don't count on that HR person to get the same file you see on your screen. The only good way to do that is PDF.
I don't know what features pugdk is missing, but I did have an experience with an Excel file from a client where a macro I needed to run wouldn't work when I opened it in the OpenOffice spreadsheet app. Since running that macro was the whole point of him giving me the spreadsheet, that pretty much forced me to use Excel for that particular task. Other than that, though, I prefer OpenOffice, and only have that installed on my personal computer.
Is a book by Neil Stephenson.
MS is basically addicted to making OS's. But the market for MS OS's is dwindling.
Book is worth a read though.
Your failure is running M$ Office.
Go get a copy of OpenOffice. http://www.openoffice.org/
(Corporate America): "Whats that Sonny?!? Speak up, old man Corporate is hard of hearing!"
Everyone in the Linux camp is trying to paint Vista as a failure but every time I look, really stupid commercials aside, Vista keeps right on selling.
This is my sig.
I run Win2k. Half the footprint of XP and I'm out... um... the latest Media Player?
Best part is that it doesn't even have the DRM XP does.
J
Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. - John 14:6 NLT
Take a look at how Windows has developed in it's lifetime:
Win3.1/3.11 - first significant iteration in the consumer/business realm. Basic, shaky, no security, but manages to support basic operation.
Win95 - first serious consumer OS. Shaky as hell, new interface, sets the first serious 32 bit API set. 1st implementation of (rather wobbly) plug & play.
Win98 - Solidifies DirectX; Windows becomes "the multimedia platform" for PCs. P&P tweaked to be slightly more reliable-
WinNT4 - Win95 interface/API set with "security" & networking. Lacks true multimedia support. No P&P. Required 6.5 service packs to make it stable.
Win2000 - Win98 & NT 4 effectively merged. finally a stable OS with security facilities, decent multimedia facilities, and P&P. Required 4 service-packs to make it stable.
WinXP - Win2k kernel & drivers solid enough to move mainstream users onto NT 5 kernel branch. Adds fluffy consumer-friendly features and finally 32bit icon support. And skins. Required 2 service-packs to make it stable (extra one basically a roll-up package).
Vista - For the first time ever, MS break a "consumer OS" tradition of making root-level access elevation only. They rip out various driver models that haven't changed in decades. Large chunks of the kernel are re-written from scratch. Unsurprisingly it breaks apps on release. It takes 1 service-pack + a slew of new drivers to make stable.
In short: They made it (Win3.11), they made it sing & dance (Win95/98), they made it work (Win2k), then they secured it (Vista).
The point is that there are benefits to upgrading. Sure you don't have to, but each major version of Windows has brought benefits - even Vista
throw new NoSignatureException();
I don't know what features pugdk is missing, but I did have an experience with an Excel file from a client where a macro I needed to run wouldn't work
Yes, that is a common excuse to continue lock in with M$.
Insert rant about relying on macros instead of running your business reliably on a database.
Resumes belong in pdf in any case, for that very reason, as Word formatting can break for so many other reasons.
On the other hand, I'm staying with MSOffice till OO Powerpoint clone is actually working.
Virtualize: install XP to whatever SP and update level you're happy with... inside VMWare Fusion or Parallels on an Intel Mac. Run your virtual machine full-screen. Enjoy watching the Mac's firewall slap down any virus attempts to reach the virtual machine. Make a backup copy when you've configured and tweaked the image to the exact way you like your apps and desktop, so that when XP does get fubarred for some other reason you can simply copy your files out of it and replace the whole thing with the backup image.
Disclaimer: I've been completely satisfied working with the Office XP suite this way but I don't have high demands. The only snags I can come up with are 1) the full-screen environment still isn't quite the same as the "real" thing (because the Mac menubar still pops up when I mouse to the top), and 2) if your specialized PC applications are also using special ports that have to be opened up on the Mac side, obviously you'll encounter the same virus vulnerabilities as with a real PC. (And of course Bootcamp is no help here because it turns the Mac into a "real" PC.)
Plus you have the automatic option of running Linux once you've virtualized. Plus you have a Mac.
Incredibly, hardware manages to get faster as coders find new ways to make their software even slower. Why do we even let this battle wage on, and not just code stuff properly the first time?
Sure, some new features are essential and may occasionally deprecate old hardware, even when written properly. But if a 486 can handle Slashdot, can't a Pentium 3 provide a decent office and browsing experience?
All of PCs run Linux/Openoffice. We have just one communal PC which runs Windows for just such an occasion, and people VNC into if they need to open/convert a tricky document (very rare, once or twice a week in total for everyone).
Why would 70% of eeePC sales be XP models?
Could it be that the graphics card can't handle Vista?
Big business is also having trouble with Vista, with even firms like Intel noting XP would remain the dominant OS within the company for the foreseeable future.
But I thought Intel was Vista Capable?
It's a reason as much as an excuse. I seriously doubt that any business would be stupid enough to force a client to change the way they do business in order for the company to be able to open an office document.
I'm all for open standards, but the real world isn't the shining white ivory tower that RMS lives in.
Check out my sysadmin blog!
Vista has a few problems but from where I sit it's major problem was it's hardware requirements. From the 9x series to XP users not only got a huge boost in stability and features but they did not have to take out another mortgage to finance a new computer to run it.
Vista on the other hand expected everyone to run out and drop some major cash on new computers to have it run in any way close to what XP already was offering. And the kicker is XP and everything that people were running on it was doing very well thank you.
MS and it's OS offerings are still the 500 lb gorilla in the room but times have changed as well. While normal users most likely are still in the dark most Windows power users have dabbled with other OSs and see that upgrades don't automatically mean: you must now buy $2000-3000 worth of new hardware to get to where you were with the old one.
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
This is a great point. If any other company treated you like Microsoft does, you wouldn't take it, you would change. If you couldn't change at the moment, you would position yourself so that you could change sooner rather than later.
Check out my sysadmin blog!
Fast forward a decade, and you run headlong into a hardware wall, headbanging right into requirement monsters like Farcry and Crysis. Does having a 4,000$ rig really make a difference? Yes, to a point. In my experience, even the best gaming rig can be forced to chug and wheeze if you turn ALL graphic options to 11, making you wonder... how expensive does PC gaming have to become to be enjoyable? Looking on to the console market which now has ports of all the PC games that have graphic card melting abilities, the answer is: not that much anymore.
I've come myself to a point where I've put a halt to my hardware upgrades, since I can afford for a few hundreds the sort of graphic power that used to cost in the four digits realm. And to run my current PC rig, I only need XP. Do I REALLY need Vista, with its ressource hogging Aero theme and gadgets bar? The answer... is a resounding No.
Will I need Windows 7 to replace my XP? See answer above.
And the best way to use PDF is to install one of the ghostscript-derived 'PDF Printers.' I like PDFCreator (freeware.) No need to do anything else. All your 1-8 year old Windows apps suddenly have the ability to print to PDF.
Don't make the mistake of using any of Adobe's PDF tools. They're doing the same suck-down-to-medicore ride as Microsoft.
Win98 - Plug and Play tweaked to be slightly more reliable.
And here's the video that demonstrates Plug and Play: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2542580036602389550
"with even firms like Intel noting XP would remain the dominant OS within the company for the foreseeable future."
Vista doesn't support IE6 ... and Intel mandates IE6.
Intel is a bad example
The law of diminishing returns is in effect in OSes as well. It is just not possible to see in the future the massive changes in infrastructure and operating systems we have seen in the past. 8 years ago, going from Windows ME to Windows 2K or from Office 6 to Office 2000 meant a massive increase of stability and features. Today, going from Windows XP to Windows Vista or from Office 2000 to Office 2007 does not offer anything substantially important to the average user.
It is absurd to think that people will keep changing their tools every so often. Once tools are satisfactory enough, they stay. It has happened in programming languages (C, for example, despite all the progress in programming language theory and technology, remains the basis that everything is based on). It is now happening in operating systems. Windows XP will be with us for a long time.
The only time that we are going to see massive changes is when operating systems will become much easier to use, for example like we see in science fiction or something.
Sounds mysterious... ...my own XP PC, and the one I had at my last job did not show that problem. But it certainly sounds like you did your homework in checking for viruses. Maybe it is a "legitimate" application that steals the resources. So I'd try the following things:
1) Take an affected PC and clean out the various autostart mechanisms. Take notes and observe if killing a particular service/application fixes the problem. A nice tool to help you there is available from Microsoft: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb963902.aspx
2) If 1) fails, check if your Windows-only software runs on WINE (http://winehq.org/). If yes, Linux is an option again.
C - the footgun of programming languages
I work with openoffice only.
So here are a couple of things:
I don't complain, I saved money thanks to it, but I'm no fanboy either and I don't care about all opensource politic/idealism/whatever. This is businness. I can easily understand why some people prefer to stick to MS Office. If licenses costs weren't such an issue for my company, I would migrate to MS office.
XP actually got half decent around the SP2 time.
Vista could do the same in a few years... Windows 2008 which is basically just another distro of Windows (same Vista kernel, different userspace) runs very well and if MS used that as a base (ie. roll back the feature set, install with everything disabled by default and allow things to enable as they're used) it could even become a competent OS.
In the business arena it's driven by hardware not software. And as businesses decide that their untermenschen legions of code crunching monkeys are fine with 4 year old laptops that have already been returned to the depot for broken equipment are just fine for the time being. Since they can't run Vista it's an easy decision to have them run XP.
Everyone in the Linux camp is trying to paint Vista as a failure but every time I look, really stupid commercials aside, Vista keeps right on selling.
Because Vista comes pre-installed and bundled with 90% of new OEM PC's. You want a new Thinkpad? Guess what, it comes with Vista! Doesn't matter if you're not using Vista, you still count as a Vista sale.
Anybody want my mod points?
"Big business, which typically thinks nothing about splashing out for newer, more up-to-date PCs"
Apparently they have not worked for any of the companies I've worked for/with...
Perhaps from a hardware standpoint this is accurate. But you know what's happened to every single PC that's come into my office pre-loaded with Vista? They've been flattened and had XP installed before they could even boot Vista.
Kill yourself Twitter!
Wrong, people stick with XP because they are familiar with it. Otherwise, why would 70% of eeePC sales be XP models? I assume no one buys an eeePC to run Photoshop or AutoCAD.
I think the eeePC is a good argument to show that Microsoft sales are largely driven by consumer inertia. This is a small computer that, at least in the 9" screen and 20GB SSD model, is well balanced, very practical, and an excellent example of a product where Linux makes perfect sense. The Linux eeePC is a complete system, with all the applications a large majority of consumers want.
Yet 70% of consumers opt for XP. After getting it with XP, they still need to install the applications they want to use, and need to configure those applications to the hardware. In the end, they had to work more to get a system that's less functional and less practical.
It's not logical reasons that keep people from shifting to Linux now, it's just the fear of the unknown.
I dunno, over in one of the photo groups I go to (dpreview.com), there are threads of people picking up the 9-10" lcd netbooks to do basic photo processing on when travelling. Sure, there are things you can't do because of lack of screen size or memory installed, but for things like sorting out your clunkers from the keepers, it works well.
When I go travelling, I almost always take a laptop with me, and I do basic photo editing on the road. I think I only have 768M in my current laptop. I've been thinking about getting one myself to replace my 8 pound HP monster laptop I picked up a few years ago, but I likely would buy the Windows version instead of the Linux version. This is because I want the systems with a longer lasting battery on it. The SSD disks that are only sold in the Linux versions are completely useless to me because of their size, but the packagers only release the Linux versions in the smaller disk sizes with the small battery. However, I doubt I would run Windows on it, except maybe to upgrade my camera's firmware (which requires Windows).
In terms of why XP, most of the netbooks are limited to 1 core, 2GB of memory, and a simple graphic chip. XP runs fine in that situation, but Vista will only run crippled.
I guess if you are incredibly opposed to the existence of DRM, you might like having a computer with no support for playback of files with DRM.
On the other hand, the DRM in XP doesn't restrict the user from doing anything, it simply enables the playback of additional files.
From the perspective of most users, it is actually a feature (because they have no desire to understand the difference between the music that Napster and Amazon offer, they just want to be able to play the files they clicky-clicky).
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
Many variations on http://freedomdrive.org
Luddite. For £140 you could get a stapler like this. Then you need the maintenance contract, secure storage, batteries and so on but you will be the man for stapling.
Agreed. Virtualization gives you the best of all worlds and these days virtualization is cheap. The software is available either cheap (Parallels, VMWare Workstation, VMWare Fusion) or free as in beer (VirtualBox, VMWare Player, Xen) or even free as in speech (Xen, VirtualBox OSE).
My blog
It's fallacious to use the eeePC to make an argument of XP over Vista, because there isn't an eee that comes with Vista.
Granted, I understand that you're making more of a Windows vs. Linux argument, but the GP you responded to was not.
Boot Windows, Linux, and ESX over the network for free.
TFA says that people are sticking with XP because of compatibility problems. Now, if businesses are to move away from Windows, you will have to prove to them that their old software is more likely to run on Linux/Wine, than on Windows Vista.
The question is, how does wine compare to Vista in terms of compatibility with older versions of Windows?
What about some decent scripting/macro language?
OO.o is utter failure as scripting goes: language is overly complicated; model object is explicit (you need to init all stuff by your self) and (final *HUGE* nail in the coffin) it is utterly underdocumented.
VB sucks for anything containing logic or longer than 5 lines. But for office applications, as primitive scripting mechanism it is far superior to anything OO.o has to offer.
Add here VB documentation (terrible, but) containing copy-pastable example for literally everything and you have something what even idiot (like me) can use.
Last time I have tried to write trivial macro in OO.o, I had to dig OO.o source code itself. That sucked big time.
If VBA sucks and OO.o is better, why then making script in it takes 5-15 minutes (first record it as macro; then adjust to your needs), while in OO.o after couple of days of digging, you end up doing it manually anyway.
P.S. Thanks to good style support in OO.o, generally I need scripts seldom, yet, when you need one it often turns into disaster with days wasted doing something by hand.
P.P.S. Disclaimer: Linux user for past 10+ years. OO.o user since 1.1.x times.
All hope abandon ye who enter here.
I for one welcome our new old-tech-selling overlords...wait...what?
Heroscape, it's like legos combined with anachronistic wargames.
What is killing Vista in business is 2 words: mission critical. There is always at least 1 app, usually 2-5 that are mission critical and they simply can't function without. Vista has shitty compatibility with older apps compared to XP and therefor is getting ignored.
And if you Linux guys want a shot at the business sector, I have 2 words for you: VB6 support. VB6 is still the number 3 business language for a reason. It is because VB6 powers the engine the drives the SMB. I have yet to walk into a SMB and not have one or more mission critical apps running VB6. If someone was to put out a "SMB Edition" with built in VB6 support, so one could simply click on the app and it would run, it would go a long way to getting Linux into business. But without solid, easy to implement VB6 support, preferably out of the box, there is no way I can even attempt to convert my SMB clients to Linux. There is simply too many mission critical VB6 apps in that environment.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I don't know what features pugdk is missing, but I did have an experience with an Excel file from a client where a macro I needed to run wouldn't work
Insert rant about relying on macros instead of running your business reliably on a database.
Are you idiot? And you work in IT? But am repeating myself.
Learning how to use DB and importing data into it - takes weeks. And in the end you would need at least part time DB admin to take care of the database(s).
Picking up Excel, making primitive VB macro containing desired business logic - takes hours. No extra resources are required.
See the difference?
All hope abandon ye who enter here.
Most job agencies, upon seeing anything what is not .doc would send you a request to resubmit your resume in .doc.
But at least in my experience they are not asking questions about formatting: most of the time .docs are imported into their database and post processed as to extract your info into searchable format.
But generally people are OK with (and prefer - due to possible viruses in .docs) PDF when you apply directly to prospective employer.
I was also during past two job huntings sending both .doc (.rtf actually) and .pdf. At the times, OO.o had poor supports for binary .doc, and renaming produced from sxw .rtf to .doc was doing the trick.
All hope abandon ye who enter here.
Actually, I remember people complaining more about the fact that it's Windows 2000 with a fisherprice theme and also loads of posts of how activation sucks. Although this was about six years ago.
As for two years ago... There were loads of complaints about Windows Genuine Advantage, forced Windows Updates etc.
They all seem to be still legitimate issues to me.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Meh. Work gets done on applications, not the OS. When a critical mass of applications which enable an entity to go about it's business no longer work on XP, the entity will move to a platform which will allow the userbase to get the job done. It is that simple.
Right now, for a many, XP and and current apps are doing the job. Who can really say how long that will last? I don't think the "upgrade or else" myth has been busted, we've just been given a stay.
70% of sales are XP. Then again, there are plenty of XP versions on the shelves and the Linux versions of the eeePC don't spend long enough on the shelf to get touched on display.
The production levels of the eeePC are such that 30% of the production is XP. As soon as the OS is installed by the OEM, MS counts that as a sale of XP. It isn't sold to the customer.
But until XP boxes are sold out, there are no more Linux boxes.
This is how you manage to get 70% of eeePC sales are XP.
And it's a lie.
I remember when there was always a big push to get the latest and greatest hardware that came out. You *NEEDED* upgrade your processor because Intel pushed the Mhz up a tad. You *NEEDED* that bigger hard drive that just came out. You *NEEDED* to add more RAM because that's what everyone was doing. After awhile, I started telling people that it was the dirty little secret of the hardware industry that you didn't really need the latest and greatest. For 90% of users (basically, non-gamers and a few other folks), the middle of the line PCs would do nicely. Now that secret has been busted wide open. Cheap PCs are everywhere. They might not have all of the hardware needed to play the latest graphics-intensive game, but they'll run Office, browser the web, and play music just fine. In other words, they'll do what 90% of PC users want them to do.
The same thing is starting to happen for software. If you run Office 2000, what's your incentive to upgrading to the latest version? There isn't much to entice 90% of the users. They're realizing that they can stick to that version and not upgrade. (Free alternatives like OpenOffice.org might even get a boost due to the poor economy, but most people will likely just stick with what they have.) The same goes for Windows XP. Other than buying a new PC, people just aren't buying Vista by itself. Businesses are steering clear for the most part and home users are even requesting to downgrade. It would have been inconceivable to have Dell offering users to downgrade Windows XP to Windows 98 years back. Microsoft is going to be in trouble if people decide not to upgrade. They're competing with their biggest competitor: Their past self.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Did you not notice that MS's VBA has similar calls with the elements changed round. For no other reason than two groups were writing each program and didn't talk to each other about what API should be used (possibly written years apart).
Did you not notice that the name of the function in Excel in the spreadsheet sometimes has a different name from the SAME FUNCTION in the macro call equivalent?
You didn't because you have gotten so used to it that you don't see it any more.
So any wonder you see problems in OOo and get flamed for being an arse in showing them. You're blind to the problems that really exist that are just as bad in MS VBA.
Saying "if you don't like it, don't buy it" is a surefire sign of a weak argument.
Until now, no serious operating system has mandated what is, at best, crippleware sucking part of your resources and limiting your ability to copy bits. This is anathema to what computers and networks are about and is an ugly thing to do. It is also disrespectful to its consumers who clearly don't want this "feature".
Apple is not innocent either, the new macs now support DRM at the displayport level.( see http://www.macobserver.com/article/2008/11/18.9.shtml/. But the offense, while minor, will force the strongheaded consumer to break the law by dabbling in sometimes-illegal warez ever-available.
Linux is free by default. the user chooses whether to install drm plugins. The best option yet, though outweighed for many by the relatively poor user interface and the lack of support for many commercial applications (GAMES!!!). Virtualization within linux could end up boosting it and helping making it a dashboard ontop of which different OSes are running in their little virtual hardware. Who knows when it'll happen...
Then those businesses will eventually die out. Sorry.
New businesses are being created all the time, especially in the small business category. Simple math will tell you that those with less expenses will eventually do better than those with more expenses (given the same category of competition).
I don't expect anyone to come out and make it more easy for MS to survive by doing what you suggest. Sure in the short term there's a gain in supporting VB6 but over the just slightly longer run not so much. Sure someone might do it for money or notoriety but since it hasn't happened yet I wouldn't expect much.
I think Vista is better than XP and by a long mile. In fact, as much as I like Linux, I think Vista is better than that but the problem Microsoft has is that they've let the .NET people paint the operating system as some unnecessary thing and while that's good for .NET, its not so good for Windows. Some people WANT an operating system to have more low level APIs and features and Vista has them - but Microsoft never markets them because they are so myopically focused on .NET at the marketing level.
It's just stupid. Ozzie's whole "the web is everything" is the cancer of Microsoft.
This is my sig.
As an illustration of the parent's post, I worked for a company that only used Windows boxes when necessary. Everything else was a linux box. There were just over 100 employees, about 70-80 boxes, about 10-15 windows boxes. Most of the linux boxes were ancient. If one went out they could replace it with a $200 box that they bought and had sitting in storage. The IT guy would then take a look at the bad box and see what, if anything, could be done to get it back up and running as a viable replacement. Computers ran everything there. They ran ERP software written by one of the founders. I don't have any idea what they saved by adopting this model early on (probably in the tens of thousands each year) , but they were able to invest all that money on improving equipment, facilities, and keeping costs low. They are able to do a whole lot with very little as far as computer equipment.
Heroscape, it's like legos combined with anachronistic wargames.
Most Businesses won't upgrade to Vista because there are still far too many potential issues in doing so. You risk breaking a lot of software and systems currently in use. You need to retrain staff plus get all updated hardware because most of it is too slow or old to run Vista effectively. With the economic slowdown, it makes upgrade budgets even worse. And when you do upgrade the only real visible difference being a fancier interface!? I mean think about it folks you go to your CEO as an IT manager and explain to them you blew $1000 minimal (probably more) on something that just looks nicer with the risk of everything being screwed up!? This is why businesses are not upgrading to Vista. Even if Microsoft stops releasing patches for XP, it won't matter because very few businesses have their patches 100% updated anyhow. In fact, it's more important to have a good viral scanner and firewall. The other reason is that the last MAJOR upgrade was for year 2000. A lot of companies used that as an excuse to spend upgrading the entire IT infastructure. It's now 2008 and there's no compelling reason to do so yet. Until Vista or Windows 7 shows fantastic benefits or XP becomes incompatible with everything which probably won't happen for years, good luck switching.
For 90% of users (basically, non-gamers and a few other folks), the middle of the line PCs would do nicely.
But for one thing, I suspect bottom-of-the-line would be fine. It's gone from games pushing the bleeding edge to websites pushing the median. Apart from websites with ever-more-complex flash and DHTML/AJAX scripts, I suspect that I'd still be happy with my old ever-upgraded "Beige G4" and something like a Toshiba Libretto, since (with one exception - a game) apart from little home/office apps pretty much all the "heavy lifting" I do outside work is server-side... or web-based.
Moron.
When a critical mass of applications which enable an entity to go about it's business no longer work on XP, the entity will move to a platform which will allow the userbase to get the job done.
Why would that happen, when applications are written for the platform users are using... and too many users are using XP to alienate them. The only application vendor with an incentive to drop XP is Microsoft. Everyone else... well... Windows 2000 is still supported by just about everyone and I suspect there's an awful lot that still run on Windows 9x.
This isn't like the Windows 9x/Me to 2000/XP shift, where there were good solid business reasons for dumping the old OS.
I think the author's over-enthusiastic about the possibilities for OpenOffice and open source software (see the other recent article about the problems with Linux on the desktop), but there really is no compelling case for Vista for the foreseeable future.
I, for one, am sick of hearing about "data compatibility" and "data lock-in" as being a reason that people stay with Windows. Anybody who has even a passing knowledge of PC's knows that this is just false. Virtually any application in existence has at LEAST one alternative way to dump data out of it. Every MS app that I know can do that. "Data compatibility" is simply not a problem, and it's a red herring to say otherwise.
My company is staying with XP because 1. It works 2. There's no reason for us to upgrade and 3. Our APPLICATIONS (not our data) are tied to XP. If I really wanted to, I could dump our data from our XP apps and dump it into comparable apps in Vista or Linux. Data really doesn't hold anybody hostage these days.
I don't respond to AC's.
Companies have realized that they do have a choice -- that they can simply say 'no.'
Until Microsoft say they aren't going to support the OS any longer. Then you have to "upgrade" or change entirely. If there is one thing I have learned, it takes a lot less effort to complain than it does to change. Going from XP to Vista is not considered a change by many.
Sadly, I think some linux distros and OO are more like XP and Office 2003 than Vista and Office 2007 but that requires education. Something else we seem to be short on these days.
Why would 70% of eeePC sales be XP models?
Could it be that the graphics card can't handle Vista?
WTF are you talking about?? eeePC's are XP or Linux. I'm not sure why you would mention Vista, aside from mental retardation, but the OP was trying to claim that people use XP because it is familiar, not because it run's their "favorite software", since the eee is far too underpowered to run any games, cad etc. As such, Linux is a far better OS than Windows on the eee, since it is so hardware limited, but people get XP because they "know it".
Next time actually bother to read what you are quoting instead of talking out of your ass and looking stupid.
Previous new versions of Windows offered increased usability or stability (NT -> 2k -> XP, 95 -> 98), while seeing system requirements rise by an average of 177%/122%/282% for processor/memory/hard drive space on NT based operating systems. XP's annoying product activation at least came with instant user switching and the "run as" contextual menu, which made it much less of a pain in the ass to have your user account not be an administrator.
However, Vista's requirements are a 343%/800%/1000% increase over XP's. And for what? The only interesting feature of Vista that wasn't stripped out was ReadyBoost, which is overcome by the bloat and DRM. Visa is a big sinking pile of shit, just like ME.
But ME was a stop gap release, it wasn't supposed to be the future of the company. And now, as Apple lampoons, Microsoft's solution to the problem is to spend a bunch of money to fix consumer's impression of Vista, rather than fixing Vista.
There is a difference,
Right up until you reach the point that an entire department is relying on an outdated, bloated, slow-as-hell macro that causes even the brand new desktops to slow to a crawl.
I had a ticket on this very thing just this morning. User was complaining that their brand new machine ran like junk when they ran a Macro. It turns out that EVERYBODY in the department has the same issue. Since we don't support user-made macros I had to tell the user to either re-write the macro or get the company to approve a DB install and training time. I suspect that the macro will be rewritten. Nobody wants to take the time to do it right.
I wonder how much money is wasted in lost productivity while users sit around waiting for macros to complete?
Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
I also have two words for you but i ated it.
So not only did MS bankroll SCO's risible efforts to scuttle Linux and thus cause a ruling that means the Penguin can never be challenged again, but they're now herding people towards it with that laughable turd called Vista. As long as Uncle Bill and his cronies keep shooting themselves in the groin like this, Linux use will grow like a weed.
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I doubt anyone will work on a project for such an old and insecure language as VB6. However I feel that as .NET gets more mature it will fill the shoes of VB6 in "mission critical" apps. From there the Mono project will certainly be the bridge needed to get large businesses on Linux bandwagon.
Use Latex.
You can easily convert it to pdf and is accesible on all platform. It is better at writing equations and you can easily change the article format, layout etc. Anything more ambitious than writing a letter your mom ought to use latex.
I think the myth that died is the one that existed within Microsoft which made them think they can herd their customers about like cattle no matter what kind of slop they dish out. The culture of arrogance has met with a bit of reality.
kdawson doesn't want to point out that the original story came from our favourite troll and sock puppeteer...
...so he opens the edited submission with...
I think they're on to you, twitter, ol' chap!
The small businesses with less expenses are the ones that never upgraded from Windows 2000 on their old Pentium 2/3s.
Security isn't an issue for them for the most part for two reasons. The boxes aren't internet connected, and virus/worm writers have stopped targeting such an old platform.
Those business aren't "switching" to anything until their hardware dies and there isn't an old PC available from the local recycler to take its place.
The computer industry doesn't know what it means to be a "small business". This is especially true for Microsoft.
I know they don't teach this in programming school anymore, but there are other types of applications than database applications.
Excel macros is (sadly) the most popular programming language for this type of application amongst business users.
What would you store in a database if your application takes some values, plugs them into a function, and gives you a result? Does your calculator app have a database behind it?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
However, if I was starting a new small business, I believe I'd look at cutting cost as much as possible. You can get by with "even" a 486 unless your business needs number crunching powers. So, basically you can get free or near machines.
Now, to software licensing. It doesn't even remotely make sense to pay more for software than the hardware. And for almost all small businesses there are solutions that just work for the mission critical portions of the infrastructure (backup, website, even phones!).
There is really no "risk" for a small business to use the big open source packages. So they can't fix it themselves. So what. Did they think they were going to get MS (or whoever) to fix it for them (probably yes, but that just means they're delusional).
It just seems that the second round of computing went to lock-in solutions. Any business that grew up under these conditions might have a hell of a time extracting themselves, but you just have to ask - is survival worth it, or not?
I'd agree that most proprietary sw houses don't really know what it means to be a small business. I'd even argue that they don't really know what it means to be in business at all (hint - being a parasite is not a business opportunity).
Comparing system requirements without taking into account the time between releases is like ending a sentence with a
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
But on the basis that a new desktop or laptop comes with Vista Home, are all those features worth the £150 or thereabouts for a copy of Vista Ultimate?
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
is like a 30-year smoker diagnosed with lung cancer (who's had corroborating opinions from nearly every doctor he's seen) proclaim himself Official Heretic from the "Church of Oncology" because his aunt was misdiagnosed with breast cancer 30 years earlier and was worried until she got a second opinion from someone who said it was benign. Oh, another factor for lung cancer boy was that his cousin the chemist said that the same chemicals that are inhaled from cigarettes are also produced by campfires and that our cavemen ancestors lived in caves with campfires and poor circulation and still managed to take down woolly mammoths.
I don't know what businesses you're walking in to, but I haven't seen a VB6 app in about 10 years, and I only work with small businesses.
If I did, I'd replace it, not fight over the OS it runs on.
I have yet to walk into a SMB and not have one or more mission critical apps running VB6.
I've walked into a SMB, and all the applications were written in 6502 assembly language.
As for small or medium businesses, the first thing I did at my current job was rewrite some of their Excel+VBA apps in Python for a major boost in speed and maintainability.
I really do not see the benefit of upgrading from XP to Vista for most business users - who, lets face it, are doing web, email, word and excel. Is there really anything they can;t do just now?
For one thing, as of July 2008, Windows Vista Business can "do[] web, email, word, and excel" on a newly purchased computer without having to find drivers and install the Windows XP Professional "downgrade".
What about Mac OS X - doesn't that provide much the same 'new' features?
Mac OS X has no Microsoft Access. No Access means no Stone Edge Order Manager. To what package do you recommend that small businesses that use Order Manager migrate?
The above is an out an out lie. I used the software CD that came with my palm centro last november (no upgrades required) and installed the palm desktop with no issue and it syncs fine both with USB and bluetooth. Are you using some ancient Palm Pilot?
Sometimes, life itself is sarcasm...
I know, we can just grab a copy from the repository and fork windows xp right?
You don't have to have the Windows XP source code just to write a driver. The NT 5.1 kernel in Windows XP has a stable application binary interface by design, and Linux has an unstable one by design. As far as I can tell, you need Visual Studio and the Windows Driver Kit, not a Windows source code license, to make a driver for Windows XP.
Our medical records software does not support vista yet.
The computerized patient record system used at VA Medical Centers has supported Vista since 1997.
... Microsoft bleeds money, because they're not receiving fresh capital from upgrades. It can obviously take some of that - even a lot. But it can't do it forever.
When you look at the rise of distributed systems and a return to client-server architecture, the failure of Vista is actually a significant setback for MS.
[Ego]out
I know you're marked Troll and your verbiage is deliberately inflammatory, but in all truth, OOo still falls short of the mark. I'm a Japanese - English translator, and one simple piece of functionality that I require for my business is accurate counting of mixed Western + CJK texts. OOo Issue 17964 has been on the books for years, with many votes but essentially zero progress. There hasn't even been any hint of actual development efforts to fix this shortcoming. Meanwhile, IBM's closed Lotus Symphony office program, based on the OOo 1.x branch, includes accurate counts for mixed Western + CJK text, clearly indicating that the problem is not insurmountable.
I mention Issue 17964 here in specific, but the bug is symptomatic of far too many OOo issues that have been formally reported. I don't know what the problem is, but my guesses are:
I would dearly love to make fuller use of OOo in my business. However, when all my clients are sending me source documents in MS's .doc format, and OOo cannot faithfully reproduce complicated .doc layouts and massively borks them on save (Lotus Symphony has the same trouble), nor even provide me with a basic word + Asian character count (not including spaces), I simply cannot rely on it. And more's the pity, it seems OOo devs really don't understand the opportunity for a fuller MS Word clone, making it all the more unlikely that OOo will ever truly be able to steal Word's thunder.
There's a reason MSO continues to rule the roost -- and, for good or ill, that reason is not entirely MS's monopoly market position, but simply because MSO does what people need it to do, with no real viable alternatives around. I quite despise MS, but sometimes you just need to use the best tool for the job.
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
You hit the nail on the head here --
I don't know what happened in the evolution of the StarOffice/OOo codebase, but folks there seem to have gone way beyond the pale in making blooming *everything* Java-y, with services and interfaces and implementations and whatnot, right down into the documentation. Those of us not dealing directly with the source code, but opting instead for a script, must wade through tons of Java-specific gobbledygook to even begin to find what we're looking for.
By way of example, let's look at a TextCursor, ostensibly the object we need to use to futz with text in an ODF document. The link above is to the official API documentation. Look that page over briefly and see if you can tell quickly what a TextCursor can do, in terms of what procedures a TextCursor object exposes and how to invoke them. I'd wager good money that, unless you're already intimately familiar with the OOo API, you won't be able to.
And it's the same damn thing for *any* object you can get a hold of -- to look it up in the API and really understand it, you need the patience of Job and a few pots of coffee close at hand. Why the heck are the docs this insane? I know they've effectively *prevented* at least half a dozen people (myself included) from using OOo more. I thought documentation was supposed to *help* people -- the OOo API docs get in the way, instead.
"Java-like monstrosity" is certainly an apt description.
Sadly,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Not true at all.
... that too from about 10 feet away via Bluetooth!
My Palm Treo is synced everyday with my Vista Laptop (for over 1 yr now)...
Also note: I had bought an el-cheapo USB-bluetooth adapter (eBay $10) and Bluetooth worked the moment I plugged it into Vista.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Every gentleman in the computing IT industry is well aware of the looming date for the end of life of Windows XP.
By far the most successful operating system ever devised for highly powered computing equipment.
After this date, all computing equipment at the high end of the scale will be required, legally, to make the upgrade to Vista.
Is it any wonder then that both Google and Yahoo are now in a bind, where they find that all those machines which power their internet infrastructure, will now have to be swapped out and upgraded to a more contemporary Vista platform ?
Google, with its hundreds of thousands of computers, will need . hundreds of thousands of technicians to perform these upgrades, and yet, since they have a consistent history of bad-mouthing Microsoft and and playing I am Better than Thou with them for so many years Google finds that their staff are now underskilled and as obsolete as their aging Windows XP machines.
Because of their companys poor attitude towards the hand that feeds them (Microsoft), Google staff have been suffering without access to the premium MSDN services. Their skills have rotted on the vine like so many bad potatoes.
So - I ask you - is it any coincidence that both Google and Yahoo (yahoo being in a similar position to google thanks to their poor behaviour) - are now crawling towards the dinner table with their paws outstretched looking for a white knight to help them in their time of distress ?
The business plan de-jour in the computing IT industry has always been :
- To develop a best of breed product
- Get the market to take notice
- Partner with Microsoft, and then be bought out.
- Profit
So it comes as no surprise to me to see both Google and Yahoo scrambling to be the sweetest and most polite child at the christmas table just as Grandpa reaches out to cut the cake.
apt-get dist-upgrade
works for me!
-- Sex is the antonym of pringles. Once you pop it's time to stop.
This is priceless:
From there, it's but a small step to realizing that they can also walk away from Windows completely, provided the alternatives offer sufficient data compatibility to make that move realistic.
Yeah, those (admittedly) ass backwards shops running foxpro apps with access backends, tiny fucking step, uh huh. Pie in the sky 1 small step to linux bullshit needs to die. Until every fucking line of windows targetted code runs on linux as it did on Windows no linux distro will ever usurp MS software in the workplace.... and don't even get me started on the distro bs. Understaffed IT departments in small workplaces always love that there are multiple options that are potentially the wrong choice.
Vista...? Yawn.
I just had the image of a billion gloop-encased humans, shivering inside their pods, preparing themselves to emerge ...
I'm sure I've contributed to the "used rather than new w/ Vista" crowd. I work at a university surplus, and have sold about 12,000 machines in the last 2 years with Ubuntu on them. We do a combination burn-in/install, by netbooting the ubuntu alternate (which uses the debian text installer...) with a preseed.. fully automated. Plug in power, video, keyboard, and ethernet, power on the box, set it to pxe (or use the GPXE universal floppy, retrying until the dust knocks out of the floppy...) and your done. Come back in like 15 minutes (after plugging in more machines...), it's either done or it's blown a cap or hard disk and failed the burnin. Some of these 12,000, people were obviously looking for the boxes w/ XP COAs (unactivated, since the U has a site license) or are like "Oh, that has that... You-Byuuuuu-tuuu on it doesn't it" but more people recently are instead "This does have Ubuntu right? .. Good" and asking if I can burn them an Ubuntu CD (I do if I have time and a blank CD around..) They just don't have an interest in XP *or* Vista.
Note, the flip side of this, the Ubuntu install is EASY. I mean the way we have it is VERY easy. XP installs can be automated to almost this extent (we've got one that asks for the COA, and that's it) BUT driver support is VERY poor and slipstreaming for the like 100 different machine types we've gotten would get old quick.. in particular, the intel onboard sound, video, and ethernet, broadcom ethernet, any type of gigabit or sata, are unsupported, even with sp2. We have a slipstream that covers 1 or 2 specific models. The Ubuntu 8.04.1, it has installed on everything from P2-400 to Core2Duo for me (including Macintosh), I did have to add a line to /etc/modules for sound on one P2 model with ISA sound, and the snd-powermac on some macs (for some reason ubuntu doesn't figure on trying the powermac sound module on a powermac. go figure.)
Then you have no real experience in a large portion of commercial software development houses. A lot of software houses are still maintaining products that were written in the 90s in VB6 because a) the products are mostly mature and work, b) there is years worth of code investment behind them and c) their clients use and love the programs.
.NET products and will do so for some time to come.
The big mistake a lot of developers make is thinking that the technology is what users pay for. That is simply untrue. What users pay for covers so much more than that - familiarity, usability, usefulness and many many other things.
My company still makes more money off its VB6 products than its
There's your problem, you're stuck on the idea that its possible and not thinking on just how difficult it is to get 14 years of emails out of Microsoft Exchange and into any of its competitors. The point of vendor lock-in is to make switching to a competing product so difficult, time consuming, error prone and costly that you'll just give up on the idea and continue to pay their extortionate upgrade/licensing fee's.
There is no way to 100% lock you in but you can get 90% lock-in. Microsoft are masters at vendor lock-in which is the biggest reason that people still use MS, even with all the CxO mindshare (brainwashing) if it weren't for the level of propriety formats and difficulty of transferring data into competing programs Microsoft would have completely faltered with the massive Vista failure. The only thing realistically keeping Windows in business is that it's still cheaper to wear the costs of windows then to switch, however the cost of windows increased significantly with vista.
You got that bit right, Data is mindless and does what it is told. It is the Vendors who hold us hostage, and many have developed Stockholm Syndrome and sympathise with MS.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
You think the half-assed badly supported Run As menu which made it slightly less impossible to run as a limited user is noteworthy, but completely ignore UAC? UAC which actually makes it sensible and secure to run as a limited user, without unduly annoying you or restricting your actions? That's not notable?
I don't know why I'm bothering to reply. Your opinions on the matter are very predictable.
--bornagainpenguin
Have a Virgin Mobile USA smartphone? Give VMRoms.com a try!
Then those businesses will eventually die out. Sorry.
I hope you're joking here.
If you really think that the tiny, nearly insignificant and definitely non-material marginal cost to put a windows desktop per person up will drive a small business down the drain, then you have a very poor understanding of the situation.
Call it an extra $100 (ie, marginal cost of windows xp-pro/vista-business) per desktop once every 3-5 years.
This is so small as to not even be statistical noise. It's just nothing.
If the business is running things so fine that that figure is material then they're already on their way out of business and it has nothing to do with technology.
How exactly does saying "I will not break a working xp system for a new vista one" transition to "I will break a working xp system for a new unix one" ?
It's the willingness of the people to upgrade that fuels transitions to unix. Not wanting to upgrade to vista does not automatically mean a desire to upgrade to unix.
Like most netbooks, the eeePC is a low(er) spec machine than conventional laptops, saving money on processor, graphics and memory - consequently also using less power. The solid state machines have much smaller hard drives. This means that putting Vista on an eeePC would not be a good idea - even Microsoft realises it and has made a special XP license for these machines.
See my journal, I write things there
I suppose that could be your only basis of comparison, if you were a total moron as well in addition to being illiterate. As I said:
Bloat and increased hardware requirements might be worth it if they came with increase in functionality. Vista doesn't come close to doing that.
Virtualization, as it exists now or as it will exist in the not-too-distant future could provide that small-step transition.
When time comes for an organization to upgrade (performance, hardware failure rate, enhanced software on other platforms, etc.), the option of running two (or more) OSs in parallel on the same piece of hardware allows the use of both old and new paradigms side-by-side, reusing existing MSFT licences. And there's no specific reason only two platforms at a time would be the max (other than user confusion).
Today's Parallels on Mac OS X allows Aqua and XP/Vista apps to run in the same desktop with cut and paste between them (if I'm reading and believing the marketing lit). It's concievable that future virtualization or remote-access tools (rdesktop, NC, etc.) will allow similar features.
For future organizations this could be a best of all possible worlds situation, and for MSFT, a nightmare scenario.
I'm convinced that open peer review is more conducive to production and maintenance of secure software than any proprietary development model that prohibits examination of source code, but this isn't my primary reason for preferring Linux. As a tool, it's better because what I learn this year about the kernel, the shell, and using both, will not be tossed out like the Windows NT kernel. Linus allows modifications to the kernel as necessary and beneficial, but as a general rule, now that I don't use Windows, what I learn about how to use this computing tool is more analogous to learning about science and less analogous to trying to keep current on clothing fashions. Although the sum of things to know about both science & Unix-based software expands even while my own knowledge expands, what I know now is still true tomorrow. A major change to the Linux kernel is not quite as rare as a major change to Newtonian mechanics, but it's just an analogy anyway. My second reason for preferring to use Linux is that it encourages more Austrian school, pure laissez-faire capitalism by setting software authors in direct competition. Corporatist programmers for Microsoft & friends still compete on "outcomes" but their work is hidden from public view so their quality of work is less often directly compared to one another. Under a corporatist, patent & copyright based software development model, a programmer competes once to be hired, and that's based on reading a résumé, rarely one's code. Mediocre people frequently describe academic work as "competitive" as if colleges have a static number of As and Bs to award, but that's bullshit. Professors only grade on a curve when it's beneficial to the class average and you all know it. From the point of hiring onward, any competition to produce the best software is filtered through the marketing departments. Linux allows programmers to work as independent contractors in theory, and to compete head-to-head. In practice, collaboration is still necessary and beneficial for many major projects and hiring agencies still have a role, but anti-competitive corporate entities have less power to group programmers into a few camps or to stifle innovation by depleting the pool of competitors, because open source licensing prohibits taking away any programmer's right to compete against another by producing demonstrably better code.
"I can't imagine how things could get any worse!" (some guy) "That could just be failure of imaginatioÂn on your p
I think your idea for adding screenshots and such to repositories is a good idea, and not just for the less skilled users. More information can only be helpful, plus if a package maintainer or the developer bothered to create an icon and some screenshots, then it shows the program is worth effort.
Finding a good project which works and does what I need isn't always easy. I've seen plenty of cruft out there on freshmeat, and I think even some in my short try of Debian and Ubuntu's repository. I tried Synaptic, but it didn't seem too helpful except in certain situations. Mostly I tried to find out package names and use apt-get. Perhaps there are better package manager front ends, but my experience sucked. I am back on Slackware, though I may install an Ubuntu partition to chroot soon... (Some projects just require too many interdepen-dance-dancies!)
just when you think linux is not going anywhere....DOOBIE DOOBIE DOO!!!!
Well, she is very grateful. Extremely grateful - offers to take me out for a nice dinner, etc. I say don't worry about it.
Dude, you shot down her advances and then she was grumpy? (-1, Obvious)
No, she doesn't want to learn something new.
This is where the guys who run Carbonite and those kinds of outfits have a sweet business model. "Pay us one-tall-latte/month and don't worry about it."
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I called Microsoft Sales, and said I'll give you 5 minutes to convince me to buy Vista for 20 computers at my business. After 5 minutes, I asked, Me: What OS are *you* running? Microsoft Support Rep: Vista, at home Me: and at work? MSR: We're in the process of upgrading..... trails off