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Suspect Freed After Exposing Cop's Facebook Status
longacre writes "A man on trial in New York for possession of a weapon has been acquitted after subpoenaing his arresting officer's Facebook and MySpace accounts. His defense: Officer Vaughan Ettienne's MySpace 'mood' was set to 'devious' on the day of the arrest, and one day a few weeks before the trial, his Facebook status read 'Vaughan is watching "Training Day" to brush up on proper police procedure.' From the article: '"You have your Internet persona, and you have what you actually do on the street," Officer Ettienne said on Tuesday. "What you say on the Internet is all bravado talk, like what you say in a locker room." Except that trash talk in locker rooms almost never winds up preserved on a digital server somewhere, available for subpoena.'"
That defense actually WORKED? Sorry, but that is nothing more than "locker room talk". If silly bits and pieces like that are valid in court, then the idiotic judge just opened a massive can of worms. Nice precedent, asshole. No more joking on the internet because someone could take it seriously!
and sued the cop for sexual harassment for all of those pokes.
http://twitter.com/OLDTELEGRAM
this story represents a rare instance of someone using privacy-violating technologies to screw over "The Man", rather than "The Man" using them to screw over everyone else (as happens all too often). Although it sounds like this guy may well be guilty.
<NelsonMuntz>"HA-ha! Stupid Cop is Stupid!"</NelsonMuntz>
Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
How is it joking? Jokes are supposed to be funny, not hurt other people. The internet is a real place not some fantasy land. People are responsible for there comment regardless of what media they use to make their comment. If a terrorist make a threat on the internet should it just be dismissed because it was said on the internet. Oh I was just joking about blowing up the school. Should something like that be a defense, oh he said it on the internet so it was a joke.
People are always keen to say "such and such" is just talk but the fact is the language we use about ourselves has a profound impact on our behavior. If a cop enjoys all that bad-ass posturing in art, and then builds that persona for their self, there is little doubt in my mind that at some point, no matter how much they might deny it, that kind of stuff will appear in their actual behavior on the job. I am NOT saying in this case it follows that the officers actually planted a weapon. But I don't really see a problem with someone being given pause over this kind of posturing. They do an important job and maintaining certain professional standards in their behavior keeps us safer all-around.
This is just another example of people throwing personal responsibility by the wayside and blaming someone else for their own mistakes.
It's sickening.
Yeah, probably not a good idea to talk about your job on the internet or setting up suspects. Maybe the cop did set him up. I would think his profile on a public website would not be brought to light unless he was specifically talking about setting up the suspect, I don't see why anyone would pay attention. Obviously there was more to his profile and he was directly talking about the incident or eluding to the incident. Everyone knows the internet is full of complete crap nowadays. I long for the old days sometimes when the internet was new and shiny and most people were genuinely interested in technology. :(
If he made those comments in the "locker room" instead of the internet, would you still say they that it shouldn't me mentioned in court? What about in a public park?
At what point are we supposed to stop assuming something is bravado and take it seriously?
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or goatse
So when the system uses this kind of bs to keep you from a job it's fine and dandy. But as soon as you turn it around on the system, all of a sudden people are outraged?
...that was one guy he never should have had BOOKed.
The persona you show in the locker room or internet is your real self, or at least a closer version of it than what you show on the streets when anyone else but the guy you're screwing with is watching. I've seen fine upstanding cops like this lie their asses off in court enough to believe that if he jokes that 'Training Day' is great training that he more than halfway actually believes it.
The suspect, Waters, is obviously not a great guy, but I'm not convinced I can trust anything a guy like Ettienne says either.
This is the kind of news that keeps me on track. When I release an SBD, I maintain a poker face.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
Tough titty. If you're a public official, you have to live up to a higher standard than everyone else - it's part of the deal. Even the appearance of unfairness or impropriety is unacceptable, insofar as it relates to your position.
To this end, I have compiled a list of analogous examples of facebook status lines, as depicted by their various professions:
- Catholic Priest: "Off to work for me...Long day ahead of corn-holing a bunch of kids."
- Astronaut: "Launch time is tomorrow morning. This time tomorrow, I should be safely in orbit, pulling my pud and spewing my wad into someone's EVA glove."
- Programmer for Microsoft: "Damn I got coder's block. Time to find something useful inside the linux kernel."
- Local baker: "I just fooled around for two hours with my raunchy girlfriend and haven't washed my hands. Gonna go bake some bread."
- Medical examiner: "I'm just so bloody horny lately and dammit the online dating just isn't working out for me."
- County Judge: "Feeling a bit woozy right now after sampling everything out of the medicine cabinet."
- Airline pilot: "Life sucks and I want to die."
- Cthulhu: "Sometimes i just want a hug."
I was waiting patiently outside of a coffee shop with my puppy while my girlfriend was inside getting a couple White Mochas.
As I sat on the bench, two cops came and sat down right next to me. They were in the middle of a conversation, which I couldn't help but overhear.
Cop 1: "Why'd we arrest that guy again?"
Cop 2: "Man I don't even know!"
Cop 1: "Eh, whatever. He had it coming to him. They'll sort it out at the station."
Maybe they should put him in the cell next to the chimp. Like I said, complete internet crap. Maybe people should be forced to get a license to use the internet, sometimes I think that, I know it is wrong, but I do think that sometimes. LOL
And did he get a slap on the wrist? No sweets for a week? I mean all he did was carry a concealed firearm, which is only against the law.
What you say in a public forum, ESPECIALLY as a public official in a critical position of trust, matters. Make a joke about crashing planes on the TSA website, see what happens. Make any kind of joke in any kind of public forum about possibly harming the president of the United States and the Secret Service will absolutely pay you a visit.
How would you feel to know your doctor cruelly jokes about involuntarily euthanizing people over 40? A kindergarten teacher making jokes about molesting the kids? A contractor who jokes about building houses to fall in the first earthquake? I'm a network engineer, and I can assure you I don't joke about crashing the 911 systems or bringing down the hospitals and airports I'm the lead engineer for.
I love Bill Hicks. I thank God for Penn Gillette. Richard Pryor is a certified genius. We will not see the like of Jonathan Swift again. But when my wife is in the middle of a c-section, I don't wanna hear the anesthesiologist go "Hey Dude, do you want a hit of this too?" It would be hilarious, and I would have to kill him.
A police officer who jokes about beating people and planting evidence does not have the temperment or trustworthiness for the job.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
Just another knuckle dragging biped with a gun and a badge.
tha post says facebook, the nyt article it links to says myspace.
Remember what your peers on here have said about slights committed by police officers. Give the guy/gal on the defense an extra benefit of the doubt, they really need it in cases where the police take it apon themselves to "help" get a conviction.
I've read Slashdot for the last 5 years, and now I start posting... Go figure
A pet peeve of mine, too.
I'm going to set my status to freedom fighter.
IMNAL- But, I was looking and frightened by this. Due to imlications for future trials, like in a rape case. I can easily seeing this being used as proof to validate the facebook profile being used against the victim. Look- she said she was feeling sexy and horny- *that* made it consensual. And on her myspace page she talks about promiscuity.
Dangerous, Dangerous territory.
Does the facebook profile point out behaviors people don't want to see in cops- YES. Does it point out that the defendant didn't have a weapon? Absolutely not. They are different events at different times.
Hard-core gadget geek here. If it says Surefire, Victorinox, Wenger, Leatherman, Nitecore or Spyderco, it's probably a good Christmas present idea for me. I doubt I'm alone on this on this board. I routinely carry a Surefire E1B (a very bright small flashlight the size of a roll of Lifesavers) and a Leatherman. You can't trace a cable you can't see, and the usefulness of a Leatherman around networking gear should explain itself.
The problem is that the laws as they are written define a weapon roughly as "anything the officer wants." People have been arrested for carrying Swiss Army Knives the officers chose to call a "hidden dirk or dagger." People have been arrested for carrying Surefire 6Ps (a six-inch long flashlight. Turns out the officer wanted to "confiscate" an expensive piece of gear). A couple of summers back, an off-duty police officer working private security told my wife she couldn't bring a six-pack of cokes into the amusement park because the aluminum can could be used as a weapon. The vendors were selling cans of cokes not 50 feet from the gate, of course.
When you hear "weapons violation," you used to think hidden foot-long boot daggers, rifles illegally converted to full auto, sawed-off shotguns, live grenades and the like. Today, more often than not, being arrested for "carrying a deadly weapon," means you were holding a Maglight to see your way to your car in a dark parking lot.
You think I'm joking? Anyone remember the terrorist Lite-Brite Toy Incident in Boston?
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
I thought the term was "bald-faced lying scumbag", but then again I'm ANAL and not good with language ;-)
Waters was acquitted of felony possession of a weapon due to the reasonable doubt created by Ettienne's online postings. What you're saying is equivalent to saying that OJ in fact did not commit murder because he was acquitted.
I'd love to see state laws written, or a federal constitutional amendment, which forbid local districts from independently allocating money seized through fines. Ideally, any money seized through fines should just be burned, to do its small part towards deflation. But just filtering it up to a national level may do enough to prevent abuses on a local level.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
I hope Carlin was wrong, and I hope he's currently listing the seven dirty words you'll never hear in Heaven, doing two shows a night at the club four blocks down from St. Peter's Gates...
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
> On 4chan, I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say it's Anonymous.
Really? Because my guess was "namefag." They're always talking about that guy, after all. He's almost as famous as pedobear.
I dont know if its because ex SS german troops teach american cops or if they are ex army with brain injuries, but in australia, cops are soo much nicer, and the only corrupt ones are the ones who take 50% of the criminals loot home. "I see you we busted you for 2 kilos of dope, I'll write down 1/2 a kilo, rest 'doesnt exist' - hush hush, it'll mean a lower sentence"
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
I remember a case where GM was testing a new car, and fixed it to 100km limit, brand new out of the factory, extra care taken as it was a test car.
The drove all over the free ways, and toll roads, but got booked for 106km.
They went to court claimed, DUDE its impossible its locked to 100, your stupid 'revenue cameras' are full of shit BUILT by fraudsters.
There was another case were they booked a woman doing 160 in a old crap car that could not even go above 90.
If any nerd programmer out there works for an embedded hardware outfit that programs these cameras, good luck finding a job if any one got booked in the past.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Set your mood 'calm' or 'professional' and never touch it again!
I had a run in once. Basically my Wife and 14 year old daughter were fighting over her blowing off a job referral. (was a friend of ours) Daughter got really mouthy, saw a slap from my Wife. I came home, saw the mess and sent everybody to their rooms! Grabbed some OJ and sat down on the front porch to think things over and let them cool a bit.
A dumbass neighbor phoned in a domestic violence call.
They arrived, with the assumption that I did it. We had a nice conversation at first, then they wanted to enter the home and just search everything. No way. All they had was a moron, who regularly is seen planet watching in his undies!
I used clear language, but did talk to them as peers, not superiors.
Here's how it works here. If you are ready to go to the mat, then you are in a place where you can exert your rights. I denied them entry to the home, told them why, informed them I could very easily signal the kids to have my wife come to the door, or just signal her directly, and they could sort things out. They responded with "it's our scene, we call the shots", to which I replied, "This is my home, and there is no crime."
At that moment, I knew I was seeing a court room. They were pissed! Basically, the beat me up right there in the drive way (but didn't enter the home LOL!!!), with my kids watching! I went limp and waited. They cuffed me and pulled me up. I asked, before moving a muscle, "are you done?". They said "Yes", took me to a car, and to the jail. My wife came out after me getting thumped, and ripped them a new one.
It was to a point where one officer said "let him go". (which was too late, but I appreciated it)
6 months and some dollars later, I was in that court room.
What happened?
They lied, they manupulated, they tried to attack my character before the trial with several traffic stops (no tickets though, wonder why?), and frequent visits to the home, and grilling all the neighbors.
Lucky for me, I'm actually a good guy. They had nothing.
They lost both charges. I filed a tort, got my money back, and they got moved / suspended.
The amazing thing was they did purger themselves. It wasn't some debatable thing. It was a flat out lie! Several lies actually! I watched the jury when they happened, they saw it!
When I asked about this, after my not guilty judgment, the answer was I could file the tort for my money, and their lies would secure that. Everything else was off the table as they were just doing their job.
Fuck that! It's maddening!
That's a little sample of how the land of the free works these days. You are free, but it's costly and risky. (which isn't all that free for most people)
Having had that experience, I don't say much, and I consider EVERY encounter a potentially dangerous one. I'll go to the mat again, as I believe in our founding principles here, but I can't say that many of my peers will. In fact, many of them think I should have just let them run through my life, finding whatever they find and we deal. WTF?!?! Let people like this go fishing in my home, through my family?
That's nuts right?
Well, maybe. Getting pounded on, having to appear over 20 times before the trial, at odd hours, just so they could catch me or call me a risk, dragging my friends and family into court is pretty ugly really. The scary thing is what would have been uglier?
Say I take the easy route and they find out Mom slapped the daughter. That's human, ordinary and harmless. But they could just be in a foul mood and make a huge mess of that! For what? Too teach people a lesson about why you don't call the police? That's the reason I was given. They don't want the calls and when they are made, they basically create that mess so their time was not wasted!
So there you go.
Blogging because I can...
There are approximately 20,000 gun control laws in this country. Yes, I have a copy of all of them (BATFE annually sends them to FFL licensees). Obviously not an issue for those uninterested in guns or who rarely travel, but those who (responsibly!) exercise their 2nd Amendment rights regularly and travel often (I do both, visiting about 10 states a year, often on short notice). That's twenty thousand laws one may (or may not) be subject to while travelling around this country, covering >60 jurisdictions (federal, state, territory, major cities), with the same actions garnering full legality in one jurisdiction while being a major felony mere feet away in another.
That's an _average_ of >400 laws per jurisdiction (with some overlapping) just for guns - something we allegedly have a Constitutional right to.
(The particular subject of the aforementioned laws isn't important; what's important that some 1/3rd of US citizens are actively subject to hundreds of laws which they, and any officers which they may encounter, most likely have never read - and that's just for one legal subject matter.)
Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
Most states include a catch-all "intent" statute in their weapons laws. It's not that the law says that a knife blade under 4" is _not_ a weapon, it's that the law does _not_ say that it _is_. It is still subject to being labeled a "weapon" if circumstances indicate you _intend_ it as such.
Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
Will these people puhlease stop trying to behave "tech savvy" by trying to jam myspace, twitter and facebook in everything they do?
It's a pathetic way to try and stay relevant
Fact is, these judges,congressmen,lawyers etc. are total noobs at interpreting implications of technology and lack the common sense to distinguish the virtual world from the real.
Just because u have a facebook page and tweet does not make u "hip" or enroll u into pop youth culture.
It only qualifies you as an idiot with half-knowledge of these technologies who try to enforce laws that were written in an era when these technologies did not exist
There is a difference between reality and facebook. The difference is that reality is who you are and facebook is what you pretend to be.
gtfo facebook,myspace and twitter
gimme bak my internetz
Slashdot - I went there to fix their grammar that they're so bad at.
The "locker room" defense is pretty weak unless you're talking about locker rooms that are wired for sound, continuously broadcast, with the history of all words and events in that locker room stored and indexed with full knowledge and consent of the participants.
Locker room / water cooler talk is almost always B.S., outside of the very few cases of people actually believing what they say and reflects no more on someone's personality other than their propensity for engaging in B.S.
Read this paper:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit
There is a good section on locker room talk.
The real lesson here is to not post anything on the internet that could even remotely come back to haunt you.
Stupid, stupid, stupid for a cop to post a wisecrack about Training Day, even if he's the most honest cop on the force.
But turns out he didn't run from the cops at all, nor did he jump over the ticket barrier as they claimed. _Maybe_ he did run across the platform into the train, but lots of people do that when the train arrives.
And conveniently the authorities said the cameras in the station and the train weren't working.
Yeah right. Of course later on it seems the cops initial story is very different from what actually happened[1].
So much lying. And do the cops get punished for lying? I personally think that if the cops issue false statements they should be punished severely - more power = more responsibility.
They were lying about the whole thing so much. Better if they said nothing for fear of getting caught for it and jailed.
[1] See:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1496382/Shot-Brazilian-did-not-jump-barrier-and-run.html
i don't like the idea of a my incoherent babble, a.k.a. blog, being used against me; but if you think about it, what you say on the internet is kind of like the things you say at a party or crowded waiting room. this is one more example of why you should play your cards close to your vest.
i miss the old internet, when porn was in ascii form and user generated content meant some degenerate's awful battlestar galactica fan fiction posted on alt.cylon.slash
lose != loose
But I just want a gun, a badge, and a license to kill!
Many comments above mentioned that cops are in it for the power. May be they should be spending more time proving they are worth to be trusted and only then given the authority? Much like doctors, you know - college, residency, etc. As far as I understand now all you have to do is finish the academy and you get a badge and a gun, apparently the screening is not that effective...
I struggle against that prejudice. It doesn't help that the last cop I talked to (who looked like a steroid abuser, but I'm not a doctor...) decide I needed to be subdued, finger broken, and cuffed rather than continue sitting peacefully where I'd been told to while they searched my car. If he'd asked about marijuana instead of "contraband" while acting like I was smuggling weapons I would have told him where the roach was. I honestly didn't know WTF he was freaking out about but I was genuinely fearing for my life. Fucking veins throbbing on his neck and shit.
The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
There was one day I was driving home from the dentist after a root canal, and while there were lots of cops out on the road, I was *very* glad they didn't stop me. My speech was slurred because one side of my mouth was still numb, and if they were to do a drug test, novocaine's closely related to cocaine, the codeine I'd taken the night before is an opiate, the Sudafed I took to make it easier to breathe during the work is a meth precursor, and ibuprofen causes alse positives on the cheaper drug tests :-) (On the other hand, the nitrous had worn off before I started driving, and I'd chased it with coffee...)
But if you haven't slept in 24 hours, you shouldn't be driving (and you should still be in college and getting home by walking or taking the bus.)
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
So, I wonder if all the Dateline NBC Predators will be let free now? Those folks surely were just using their "Online Personas".
You should always answer respectfully that "you are unwilling to answer the question". This immediately invokes your Miranda Rights. Do not lie and say you didn't do something when you did, just politely refuse to answer the question. If the police asks you if you have been "drinking tonight", just say "I respectfully decline to answer that question". If you are asked "you know how fast you were going", decline to answer the question.
If you answer that you did not do something when you did, then you just lied to the police (see Rule #1). If you answer in the positive, then you have incriminated yourself (see Rule #2).
When you go before the judge, do not admit guilt - plead not guilty. Pleading guilty will limit your options. Pleading no contest is the same as pleading guilty so don't do it.
Bring proof of good moral character such as written documentation from people you know. It would be helpful if they acknowledged your error as well.
If they don't offer deferred prosecution or something of that nature, then it is time to get a lawyer.
BTW, IANAL, so YMMV.
Never put anything in writing that you don't want somebody else's lawyer holding up in court.
I can't see how a cop could possibly make a case that any swiss army knife or leatherman is illegal.
They make the case by "intent." Almost all the states carry length laws on carried knives, usually between 3-5". They also include a wiggle clause that gives the officer discretion to determine "intent." If you carry a Q-tip with "intent," the law says you've just committed a crime.
There's currently a lawsuit in Dallas over Kershaw Leeks, a three-inch knife specifically designed to be opened with one hand, yet not be a switchblade (a knife where the blade is held against a compressed spring, deployed by releasing the catch and allowing the spring to propel the blade into place.) Some officer caught a teenager with one, decided it was a switchblade, and arrested the kid. The court found that if the officer thinks it's a switchblade, then it's a switchblade. This opened the door for the class-action lawsuit against Walmart, Target, and Cabelas for selling an illegal switchblade to their customers.
In a similar fashion, we've had cases where classic, traditional "been-sold-in-America-for-generations" Buck 110s were declared illegal "gravity" knives because the officer could open them by grabbing the _blade_ and, with considerable effort, throw the _handle_ open.
We're seeing a flood of reports of officers "confiscating" expensive tools out of what appears to be avarice. The usual drill goes like this. The officer sees a pocket clip or a bulge in your pocket. The officer stops you upon suspicion of carrying a concealed weapon. The officer finds the hundred-dollar Swisstool, Streamlight, Spyderco, etc they were looking for, and offers you a choice. We can confiscate it, or we can arrest you for carrying an illegal/concealed weapon. If you ask for a receipt, you get arrested.
Merely being arrested on a weapons charge has horrendous consequences. Many places of employment will immediately suspend you as a "risk to the workplace." If you carry a security clearance, at a minimum expect it to be harshly reviewed. When you go to look for your next job, the arrest will show up on the background check, and no, it won't help at all.
You can fight it, of course. You might even win. You'll be out a couple of grand for the defense, and you're likely to be out of a job at that point with diminished prospects for the next one.
The officer will not only suffer no repercussions, his "numbers" will improve for having made the arrest. It wasn't his fault that the commie-loving courts let you walk.
We're seeing trends where people who carry tools are taking pains to make them less noticeable. Pocket clips are being redesigned to blend in to clothing, or to look more like pens. Belt sheaths are beginning to disappear. A few guys I know are carrying their stuff in their inside breast pocket rather than at their waist specifically to keep them out of sight.
We now live in a country where the police are routinely taking moderately-expensive property from citizens simply because they can get away with it. At the rate we're going, I'm expecting to see on-the-spot bribes and other third-world police behavior before my kids finish school.
It's sickening, and I can't believe it's happening in my country.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
Yes, GP was referring to that.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
... and it's ridiculous that you have a legitimate fear that some cop could declare that to be a "concealed deadly weapon" and get away with ruining your life.
Look, I wouldn't want to see some guy with blown pupils around my kids' playground caressing a tacticool Rambo Survival bayonet whispering "My Preciousssss..." either. But as much as I don't want to see that, I also don't want to see a SWAT team blow my head off for carrying the whittler Grandpa left me...
And for the inevitable question of "Well, why do you need to carry a knife?" so far in the past week my Swiss Army Knife/Leatherman has been used to cut a length of rope at Home Depot, change batteries in a toy, open a 20-lb bag of rice, shave down a badly molded piece of plastic with a sharp edge, open a box from Grandma, and fix a loose power connection on a space heater.
When I carry my knife, I'm having delusions of MacGuyver, not Sho Kosugi.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
Ok I am a total geek.
I have been in to Science, computers and electronics since I was 4.
I am also a former cop, and yes I said former, blew out my foot mountain biking off duty.
I was a cop in the Air force and a campus cop.
Oh and I a a weapons geek.
So here is the deal.
Not all cops are bad, some are really great stand up guys.
But some are complete a$$hats, then again for over 15 years I have worked in the computer world, and there are a lot of a$$hats there too.
The big difference is: cops have guns, and they are held to a higher standard.
And a few bad cops can give all cops a bad name, and a bad cop is far worse then the people they put away.
Because they have broken the trust we have placed in them.
When you become a cop and put on that badge a few things should happen.
1. You make a promise to yourself and society that you will risk your life for others.
2. You will not shirk away from danger.
3. You will serve and protect the people in your jurisdiction.
4. You will always uphold the sprit of the law.
5. You will always pursue justice for the people you serve.
6. You will do your best to make sure the guy you arrest is guilty, and not screw up the bust.
7. You will not abuse your authority, or take a bribe
8. You will always use your head, and think on your feet.
9. You will never fire your weapon in an unsafe manor or situation.
10. You only shoot your firearm as a last resort.
11. You always show everyone respect to the best of your ability.
12. You will always be vigilant, and not brake the law yourself.
If you can't do those things turn in your badge, your not a good cop.
TeTalon
You are either a part of the problem, or a part of the solution, which are you.
Can you imagine the rant we'd get?
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
I thought one of the pillars of our judicial system was reasonable doubt. If there is no proof other than the word of one person, is that enough?
These cruisers all have (or should have) video cameras which would go a long way to proving the claims made and keeping honest officers honest.
If you can't prove the guy had a gun, the word of an officer should not be enough to convict. Video, witnesses, etc should really be required. That would probably cause some criminals to get off free who were really guilty, but it's better to have a few guilty people get off than to wrongly convict innocent people, IMHO.
But you guys are dead-on on this one. As an attorney, I've seen this first-hand - in my first criminal case! The cop lied his ass off on the stand, yet the judge said my client perjured himself. Unconscionable.
As I tell my students, before a lawyer can work as a criminal courts judge, he should have to work both sides of the criminal bar (defense and prosecution) for two years first.
When's the last time you heard of a police officer being charges with perjury?
And I am generally 100X more pro-law enforcement than most of the libs here. But a cop who testilies is a thug no better than la cosa nostra.
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
To quote Billy Bragg:
"I said there is no justice
As they led me out the door
And the judge said, "This isn't a court of justice son
This is a court of law."
--"Rotting on Remand"
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