Cold War Standoff Over ISS Toilet

Hugh Pickens writes "The International Space Station, once a place where astronauts would share food and facilities, is said to be embroiled in a Cold War-like stand-off after a Russian cosmonaut complained he is no longer allowed to use a US toilet or the US gym machine. Gennady Padalka, a veteran Russian cosmonaut, says that space officials from Russia, the United States and other countries now require cosmonauts and astronauts to eat their own food and follow stringent rules on access to other facilities, including lavatories. Padalka, who will be the station's next commander, says the arguments date back to 2003, when Russia started charging other space agencies for the resources used by their astronauts and other partners in space station responded in kind. 'Cosmonauts are above the ongoing squabble, no matter what officials decide,' says Padalka. 'We are grown-up, well-educated and good-mannered people and can use our own brains to create normal relationship. It's politicians and bureaucrats who can't reach agreement, not us, cosmonauts and astronauts.' While sharing food in the past helped the crew feel like a team, the new rules oblige Russian cosmonauts and US astronauts to eat their own food. 'They also recommend us to only use national toilets,' says Padalka. 'What is going on has an adverse effect on our work.'"

Comments

This is just sheer stupidity.

[Black Rabbit]

What fucking idiot politician thought this up?

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Spatial]

That about sums it up, really. It's unbelievable, is this a day early?

On the other hand, this sort of playground childishness isn't exactly unusual in politics.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[DigiShaman]

They're politicians. It's their *job* to be assholes and douchbags.

You were asking a serious question right?

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[commodore64_love]

>>>What fucking idiot politician thought this up?

Unfortunately nearly ALL of them qualify as "fucking idiots" so I can't really name a specific induhvidual. They couldn't even balance a typical home budget with ~$40,000/year income, much less a national economy. Why do we elect these bozos as our leaders?

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Shakrai]

Unfortunately ALL of them qualify as "fucking idiots"

Fixed that for you. You had an extra word in there.

Why do we elect these bozos as our leaders?

Because the bozo in my political party stands for all that is just and righteous, while the bozo in the other political party is out to destroy America as we know it.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Kjella]

The same one that wanted a manned space station in the first place

The russians? I mean the summary says quite clearly the russians started it and if they did I'd also start charging right back at them. It sounds a little crazy but I figure the cost of putting a sandwich in orbit isn't insignificant.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[dna_(c)(tm)(r)]

What fucking idiot politician thought this up?

They like pISSing contests. They reached boldly where nobody pissed before.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[GooberToo]

Its actually not what it sounds like. Russia has been making money with space tourists and the US does not want to fund the extra wear and tear forced on the sparse resources.

Should US tax dollars really be used to allow for billionaires to play around in space? No. The simple fact is, it is VERY expensive to repair/replace anything in space and Russia is increasing the wear on various components by bringing additional people aboard who provide no benefit what-so-ever. In a very reasonable and appropriate response, the US' position is, if the Russians want to place additional burdens on sparse resources, they need to do so only on their own resources. Contrary to the idiocy of the article, its a very reasonable position to hold. If Russia wants their complaint to be heard, all they have to do is start being reasonable and responsible. Until such time, they can STFU and burden their own resources. If they don't like it, they can start acting responsibly.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[peragrin]

Unmanned missions can cover the issues that come up with manned spaceflight very well. Things like this need to be sorted out now. Like themovie 2010 astranauts need to be able to tell their governments to fsck off or we are going to die.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Leafheart]

You see it is our dump versus their dump. You don't want their dump to infiltrate our society and destroy it, do yo?

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Talderas]

So you're a Republican?

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Lord Ender]

No, it's because if we vote for a someone who isn't a lizard, the wrong lizard might win.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Shakrai]

No, I'm not, but may I ask what you based that assumption on?

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Talderas]

Wooosh.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[cashman73]

It does make a certain amount of sense, actually. After all, space toilets have been known to kill people.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Black Rabbit]

You'd have to ask John Young about that.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[sjames]

Brought to you by the makers of the Cold War where supposed grownups threatened to render large parts of the world uninhabitable and gave a generation of children nightmares due to a disagreement over economic systems.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[fugue]

Its actually not what it sounds like. Russia has been making money with space tourists and the US does not want to fund the extra wear and tear forced on the sparse resources.

That is reasonable, but it's not what the article says. If the rule were "Tourists must not filch food or gym fees or waste disposal from (other nations') taxpayers" then I'd be for it. But what the hell is the point of an international collaboration if there is no international collaboration? If this makes the 'nauts' lives worse, it is a stupid idea. What is the cost of training an astronaut and putting her in orbit vs. the cost of buying a foreigner lunch every so often (or all the time) in order to foster an atmosphere of cooperation? We now have less effective teams in space. As a taxpayer, I feel ripped off.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Pandrake]

All these worlds are yours, except Europa. Attempt no landing there.

Silly Americans, naming their toilet after one of Jupiter's moons.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Anonymous Coward]

So I bring up tourists and tell them "only use my resources", and then I can shift my usage more heavily to your resources because that's not against the rules? Sounds to me like you're still paying for me to bring up tourists.

Practial economics aside, if we want to be mad at the lack of collaboration, let's look at the one-sided decision by Russia to send tourists to the station over the specific protests of their "partners", ignoring the interest said "partners" have in the matter.

So long as Russia is engaged in unilateral commercial ventures using ISS, the partnership and collaboration is a sham. You want the crew to get back to pratices that foster team-work, start by getting ISS focused on its mission again.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Amazing Quantum Man]

Only if it's a corned beef sandwich.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Chris Burke]

/voice=Patrick Stewart

"Hello, this is Captain Picard. On the bridge of the Enterprise, I have no problems with Number One. Number two is a different matter. That's why I use Star Fleet Enemas. With a Star Fleet Enema, you can boldly go like no one has gone before!"

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[interkin3tic]

They're politicians. It's their *job* to be assholes and douchbags.

Oddly enough, politicians say the same thing about people posting about politicians on the internet.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Hognoxious]

Should US tax dollars really be used to allow for billionaires to play around in space? No.

Not when the toilet cost 600 bucks. And that's just the seat!

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[u38cg]

How much difference does having the occasional space tourist aboard really make? Given the costs involved, it's hardly likely to become crowded up there any time soon.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Midnight Thunder]

Why do we elect these bozos as our leaders?

Because everyone else doesn't want to be in politics?

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[zulux]

>>due to a disagreement over economic systems.

The Communists/Socialists had a nasty habit of murdering millions of their own citizens. That was a compelling reason to keep them 'over there.'

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[ionix5891]

Bush is that you?

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Anonymous Coward]

I think we've reached a new /. density record for "missed" jokes in this post.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Flytrap]

The russians? I mean the summary says quite clearly the russians started it and if they did I'd also start charging right back at them...

I doubt that that will be a wise move for any nation, considering that the Russians will be the only way to and from the station for several years; they also have the only regular cargo shuttle (the Europeans managed a single experimental trip that promisses a significant improvement in cargo capacity); and the emergancy evacuation shuttle is a Russian soyuze attached to the station.

I'd say that nobody is in a position to dictate terms to the Russians, at least for the next 8-odd years.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[bettega]

Thay can STFU but they also can stop sending americans and other stuff to ISS.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Macrat]

Should US tax dollars really be used to allow for billionaires to play around in space? No.

US tax dollars are needed to bail out the billionaires from their mortgages.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Vadim Makarov]

Beancounters may disagree, but I feel space tourism, even when run by whatever single nation, is a long-term overally good thing for every nation participating in space exploration.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[servognome]

What is the cost of training an astronaut and putting her in orbit vs. the cost of buying a foreigner lunch every so often (or all the time) in order to foster an atmosphere of cooperation? We now have less effective teams in space. As a taxpayer, I feel ripped off.

Imagine your roomate constantly have friends come over that eat your food, soil your toilet, and use your gym equipment without wiping it down.
You'll probably have a brief squabble with your roomie and tell him to leave your stuff alone, until you come up with new agreeable rules. This is basic short-lived territorialism when somebody doesn't respect your boundaries.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[CraftyJack]

I'm sorry, Dave, but I can't let you use that stall.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[mabhatter654]

The Russians are the only ones with CONSISTENT resupply missions. The US has been delaying shuttle missions right and left, and while the supplies do get there, it's not quickly enough. Like the US space toilet that took how many extra month to get there? The Russians have the most astronaut time on the station, when other countries can't afford to keep people up there they just bring them home. The Russians don't exactly have the money to fund the space station either and they probably felt the other countries weren't pulling their weight so they stopped sharing to get the other teams to resupply their astronauts.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Tuoqui]

Wooosh.

I can has +5 Funny too?

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[falcon5768]

Oh my!

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Tuoqui]

Technically dont 'space tourists' have to pull their own weight on the mission? They're basically using up a slot that could have been used for a scientist/astronaut.

Why doesnt the US engage in space tourism. It might be a good way to get NASA some publicity.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[davester666]

If there are no issues to deal with, then what would politicians do?

And if they can cause a meaningless issue on the Space Station, that they "need" to deal with, that prevents them from having to deal with a real issue that is more difficult (as in, no matter what they do, it can have both positive and negative political outcomes), it's ideal.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Mr. Slippery]

It takes at least two to collaborate and Russia has made it clear they want a free ride.

Who's riding who's spaceships into orbit?

When the Shuttle stops running, the Russkies will be our only ride into space.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Talderas]

Honestly, I wasn't expecting any moderation on the woosh. Don't blame me because I'm beautiful.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[cayenne8]

"So you're a Republican?"

Well, that worked during the Bush admin...and when the Republicans had both houses.

I think at this point, you'd have to say he was a Democrat, since they are in charge.....

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[igny]

No, it is right on time for Russia.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Talderas]

You say that as if it isn't common knowledge that Shakrai is a Democrat.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Linker3000]

Ooh - say can you pee....

Etc.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[sdguero]

It's NASA dude. Have you seen that PBS documentary on the Columbia wing? The crash was completely avoidable but NASA beaurocrats and mid level managers quelled the engineers. Those same beaurocrats and managers are interviewed in the documentary shuffling the blame around, AND THEY STILL HAVE THE SAME JOBS! Any normal company would have fired those people long ago.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Reziac]

If PAYING TOURISTS are using the station, why shouldn't each nation's space program get a percentage of the take, depending on how much they've invested in the station AND on tourist use? That would be fair to everyone.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[shuntthepirate]

i dont think picard ever had a problem with data :/ except the times he went mad or lied to them.. but rarely was it his own fault

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Ksevio]

What did Riker find in Captain Picard's toilet? The captain's log!

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[shutdown -p now]

What if Russia simply cannot afford to collaborate in ISS without that additional commercial revenue? If it's the matter of "we can only do it this way, or else not at all"?

Given the recent history of ISS and U.S. space programme, it would seem that it wouldn't get far without Russian involvement, whatever quirks it may have.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Nethemas the Great]

There's a few angles I think you're missing...

• Space tourism bolsters interest in space programs. Even if the Russians are the ones lifting them up there, NASA still benefits.
• Americans are going to need a ride to the ISS rather soon and I believe had already been partly relying upon the Russians for unmanned resupply.
• The 'I' in ISS suggests cooperation and sharing between states is the expected norm not the exception.
• They're behaving like toddlers at a preschool squabbling over toys.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[khallow]

Should US tax dollars really be used to allow for billionaires to play around in space? No. The simple fact is, it is VERY expensive to repair/replace anything in space and Russia is increasing the wear on various components by bringing additional people aboard who provide no benefit what-so-ever. In a very reasonable and appropriate response, the US' position is, if the Russians want to place additional burdens on sparse resources, they need to do so only on their own resources. Contrary to the idiocy of the article, its a very reasonable position to hold. If Russia wants their complaint to be heard, all they have to do is start being reasonable and responsible. Until such time, they can STFU and burden their own resources. If they don't like it, they can start acting responsibly.

The assumption here is that there's a better use for the ISS than babysitting a billionaire every so often. Perhaps that is true now that the ISS nears completion. But it hasn't been true so far. Keep in mind that this has been a useful test case for space tourism. If the US can over the next twenty years develop a vigorous space tourism industry in LEO, that will spur a lot more economic activity in space than government funded space exploration can.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[eth1]

Unfortunately nearly ALL of them qualify as "fucking idiots" ... Why do we elect these bozos as our leaders?

Because you have to be a fucking idiot bozo to want put up with the bullshit we subject our public figures to. Thus, only fucking idiotic bozos are available when it comes time to vote...

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[aztracker1]

My side... your side.. my side... your side!!! MY SIDE!! YOUR SIDE!!! .......

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[glas_gow]

There's also a Japanese cargo vessel. A Japanese cargo ship is planned to fly to the ISS in the next couple of months, although it doesn't automatically dock, and needs to be grappled within 90 seconds by the ISS arm, or presumably it floats away.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[furby076]

The list is long and not so distinguished.

More importantly, given the nature of living in the space station (cramped, dangerous, lacking in contact with more then a few people) why don't these astronauts/cosmonauts just say "Comrade's, f them. Use my toilet when you want. If you want my vodka feel free, just let me get a drink of your J Bean." Honestly - as long as they do even trades nobody will know. It would be an issue if one sides resources gets used twice as fast.

So much for international community. I wonder if they say the same thing about the oxygen, medical treatement, electricity, etc.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[elrous0]

The reason why NASA is so pissy about Russia's space tourists is simply because NASA didn't think of it first and are embarrassed that Russia got another "first" on them. It's the same old bitter pissing-contest that's been going on since 1957. Only now it seems even MORE immature that it even did then, in light of the fact that the Cold War ended almost 20 years ago and we should have left this silliness behind then.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[elrous0]

May I remind you how many "free rides" the Russians gave to the U.S. up to the ISS after the Columbia disaster?

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Mr. Slippery]

The Communists/Socialists had a nasty habit of murdering millions of their own citizens.

Not all Socialists are Communists, and not all Communists are Stalinists.

And the world's most noted anti-Communists, the Nazis, also did a bang-up job of killing millions.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[GooberToo]

Will, if you want to pull that out, let's not forget the US is basically footing a huge part of the entire Russian space program to prevent their Russian rocket scientists from otherwise being employed by hostile nations wishing to develope their own ICBM programs.

It's safe to say my "free ride" comment is accurate. The charity they receive more than makes up for the rides the US has received. In the least, its a break even - especially since the US normally has to kick in additional dollars to pay for the rides too.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[GooberToo]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1182149&cid=27406159

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[GooberToo]

Don't forget the US is already subsidizing the Russian space program because of national defence concerns. Now we have to pay twice for their participation?

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1182149&cid=27406159

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[GooberToo]

You mean after we already help pay to keep their program active in the first place? You mean after we already pay for the rides we receive? Now we have to pay a third time too? Nice...

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[GooberToo]

Perhaps you've heard of the Columbia Shuttle accident? There goes that theory.

Re-read what I said. There is nothing silly about it, aside from the article which casts a rather silly light on the facts surrounding the situation.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[fugue]

I was wondering about that, but if there is a Russian (or whomever) wing and only the Russians are allowing tourists, it could be reasonable to confine the tourists to the Russian wing. For the USA to ask for a cut of the profits might dilute their claim not to be bothered by tourists...? Maybe not; there's a negotiation in there somewhere.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[nametaken]

I saw this movie. US and Russian astronauts who would otherwise get along are forced to treat each other like cold war nations in space?

I think it was supposed to happen in 2010. Fucking idiot politicians.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Reziac]

Right, and that's what I was getting at -- in a shared environment, everyone should contribute according to what they use. Keep your tourists "at home" and its solely your business and your budget/finances. As soon as they impact the "international" areas, you should have to pay something into the common pot, proportional to how much you're making and how much you're using.

Gad, now I sound like a communist -- "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." (as stated by Vladimir Posner on Radio Moscow, ca. 1971)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Posner if you're curious :)

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[pluther]

Green? Purple?

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[orkysoft]

I'll just go to the fun side of the space station.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[syousef]

Should US tax dollars really be used to allow for billionaires to play around in space? No. The simple fact is, it is VERY expensive to repair/replace anything in space and Russia is increasing the wear on various components by bringing additional people aboard who provide no benefit what-so-ever.

So you've spent in the 2 or 3 digit BILLIONs on something designed to foster international cooperation, and you're worried about a few tens or hundreds of thousands for some extra wear and tear on a toilet? Yeah that makes sense! Do you also invite people over for a party then get annoyed when they unexpectedly use your toilet? Or ask for a glass of water instead of the beer you budgeted for??

If Russia wants their complaint to be heard, all they have to do is start being reasonable and responsible. Until such time, they can STFU and burden their own resources. If they don't like it, they can start acting responsibly.

Yeah comments like this don't exactly fill me with hope for the future when it comes to understanding and international cooperation. Even more so when those comments are modded up!

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[twiddlingbits]

Sounds just like what Obama is doing with the Banks, Car companies, utilties, etc. NASA operates on such a tight budget that any spare parts for things wearing out ahead of predictions due to excessive use is not in the budget, or will have to be stolen from another program. NASA has every right to be upset as do the other International partners which have to share the facility and (some) of the bills.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[zulux]

Nazi was short for National Socialist or more specifically Nationalsozialistische deutsche Arbeiter-Partei - National Socialist German Workers' Party.

Facism/Socialism/Communism are all the same thing: Collectivism. Where the good of the group is put ahead of the individual.

While it sounds good, I haven't seen an examples of where it works out. Even the in the best example, Norway can't even produce enough children to maintain their native population.

The scientist in me rejects collectivism - the evidence points to it not working.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Flytrap]

That is good news... I was not aware of the Japanese cargo vessel. The point I was making was around the regularity and dependability of a regular cargo shipment, of which there is currently only the Russian unmanned cargo vessel.

The European vessel shows a lot of promise because of its size, capacity (upon a modified Ariane-5 launcher) and completely autonomous docking capability... but alas, the one and only instance we have seen was launched just over a year ago, with no word on any follow ups.

So, for now it looks like we are stuck with the Russians for a regular human ferry (once the shuttle retires) and cargo vessell. Maybe the Chinese will come on board the program and offer rides up. The ISS cannot run on the European and Japanese cargo vessels whose launches are so far apart (over a year in both cases, I think). The station needs to be regularly and reliably fed with supplies, fuel, and people.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[catbertscousin]

Must have been a long day - I laughed until I cried at this one. My co-workers (non-sci-fi enthusiasts) want to know what's so funny . . .

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[MichaelSmith]

Arthur C Clarke had a great idea along those lines. Political leaders should be chosen at random from a pool of people who have never shown an interest in the role.

Its a good idea but implementing it has a few problems.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[taucross]

Take your pick.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[ral8158]

No, fascism, socialism, and communism are all quite different, actually, regardless of what you read in an Ayn Rand novel.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[fugue]

Gad, now I sound like a communist -- "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."

Yeah, or a frickin' Open Source developer ;)

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[commodore64_love]

>>>>>Unfortunately ALL of them qualify as "fucking idiots"

>>Fixed that for you. You had an extra word in there

I originally had that, but then I remembered Dr. Ron Paul who I happen to like, so I changed it to "almost all". If Mr. Paul were president, AIG bonuses would be a non-issue since they'd already be bankrupted and split-up into pieces. We'd not need to borrow 3000 billion from China for bailout bills, and the economy would already be on the way to recovery (basically a collapse followed by a reset) rather than burdened-down with heavy taxation and President Carter-style malaise (extreme inflation, dollar devaluation, and no end in sight).

What our previous and current presidents have done is create yet-another gigantic bubble, but this time based on the U.S. Government's credit card (borrowing money from foreigners). That's not a solution and that bubble will eventually burst, sometime around 2020 when the baby boomers finally drive SS, Medicare, et cetera into default.

Yep. The politicians are (almost) all fucking idiots. Both figuratively and literally.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Shakrai]

You say that as if it isn't common knowledge that Shakrai is a Democrat.

Umm, Shakrai used to be a Democrat you mean. Now I'm a disillusioned still-registered-but-not-really-a-Democrat trying to decide if I should re-register without any political party or as a libertarian.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Shakrai]

If Mr. Paul were president

What our previous and current presidents have done is create yet-another gigantic bubble

I like the good Doctor as much as anybody but I think you are smart enough to know that our problems run deeper than POTUS. POTUS can use the bully pulpit to try and set the agenda but Congress deserves at least as much blame if not more. As I see it our problem is that nearly everybody has a vested interest now in one form or another of government welfare. It ranges from welfare moms waiting for the check to come to big defense contractors lobbying their Congress-critter so they can keep selling the military weapons that it doesn't need.

I honestly don't know how you begin to unravel that mess. I fear that the system will have to completely implode before the broader voting community will start to take people like Ron Paul seriously -- and if history is any indication they could start to take other types of people seriously. Ones who aren't as concerned with personal freedoms and liberties.......

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[MrKaos]

What fucking idiot politician thought this up?

Tricari Hocus Fabula.

Not that I know anything resembling a vague understanding of Latin, so don't beat me up too much Latin grammar Nazi's ;-)

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Thinboy00]

Because primaries are controlled by radicals.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[palegray.net]

You just caused me to have tubgirl flashbacks, and what's worse, it got all mixed up in my head with Captain Picard. Thanks a bunch, I'm off to get a towel.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[Chris Burke]

Glad to share. I first heard that around 15 years ago on a morning radio show on the way to high school, and they had a damn good Patrick Steward voice impersonation. I was laughing the whole way there, and of course the other kids thought I was (more) insane.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[zulux]

No, fascism, socialism and communism are all quite similar: failures. Regardless what your 5 years in collage and the 'barista' at the coffee house tell you.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[pipingguy]

I'm one of that generation - global warming doesn't scare me!

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[pipingguy]

And if it doesn't, Blame Canada!

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[gnapster]

If I recollect, that's how Eisenhower ended up in the White House. It took a lot to persuade him to accept the nomination for president, because he didn't think that the executive branch should be populated with (ex-)military.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[metaforest]

Umm... I seem to recall an unmanned mission that couldn't decide where Mars began and where space ended....

All because two measurement systems can't get along...

For fux sake.... can't we all just get along?!?!

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[AikonMGB]

Off-topic, but I always loved that idea and have used The Songs of a Distant Earth as an example of how to set up an off-world colony.

Aikon-

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[GooberToo]

So you've spent in the 2 or 3 digit BILLIONs on something designed to foster international cooperation, and you're worried about a few tens or hundreds of thousands for some extra wear and tear on a toilet?

Actually, last I heard the toilet cost in excess of a million bucks. And, you expect NASA to risk their funding should the population at large get wind of NASA dollars being used to directly subsidize playboys in space? There are larger, more important politics involved than you seem willing to acknowledge.

foster international cooperation

Takes at least two to "cooperate"; to which the Russians decided it takes only one and then started complaining about it. Getting raped in jail isn't most people's definition of "cooperation".

Yeah comments like this don't exactly fill me with hope for the future when it comes to understanding and international cooperation.

Then is speaks rather poorly of you. I'm not directly involved in any way. Accordingly I'm entitled to openly and bluntly speak my mind. I have no need to tip-toe around the politics here. Since you're unable to make the distinction, it in fact, speaks father poorly of you.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[syousef]

Actually, last I heard the toilet cost in excess of a million bucks. And, you expect NASA to risk their funding should the population at large get wind of NASA dollars being used to directly subsidize playboys in space? There are larger, more important politics involved than you seem willing to acknowledge

Unless the Russian's hogging the toilet, or somehow the Russian's excrement is more damaging, how do you figure that this means the entire cost of the toilet is wasted if the Russian shares it??? Are you trying to troll because if not that has to be one of the weakest most poorly thought out arguments I've ever seen.

Takes at least two to "cooperate"; to which the Russians decided it takes only one and then started complaining about it. Getting raped in jail isn't most people's definition of "cooperation".

When did sharing a toilet on the ISS equal prison rape??? You've lost the plot.

Then is speaks rather poorly of you. I'm not directly involved in any way. Accordingly I'm entitled to openly and bluntly speak my mind. I have no need to tip-toe around the politics here. Since you're unable to make the distinction, it in fact, speaks father poorly of you.

No, it doesn't speak poorly of me. I certainly can make the distinction and I'm very thankful you're not directly involved in any way, and I acknowledge and will even defend your right to state your opinion. However it's also my right to believe that what you are saying is narrow minded, sensationalist and poorly thought out, and that when someone that isn't involved can be so dismissive and speak so directly in opposition of the idea of international cooperation, it does not bode well for the ability of entire nations to cooperate.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[GooberToo]

Are you trying to troll

For someone who's sig attempts to claim you understand what trolling means, you seem completely lost when it comes to its definition. That's pretty funny.

Unless the Russian's hogging the toilet, or somehow the Russian's excrement is more damaging,

You've become unreasonably focused on toilets and have completely lost sight of the entire point. Every additional person up there places additional demands on very finite, very expensive resources. Bringing people up who contribute nothing to the mission of ISS, and in fact use it as a wedge to the explicit objections of the largest contributors is wrong, expensive, and certainly not co-operative. It is entirely contrary to the spirit of the ISS. To then have the balls to complain about the situation which is entirely of their own creation is dumbfoundingly stupid and arrogant; classic Russian politics.

When did sharing a toilet on the ISS equal prison rape??? You've lost the plot.

Actually, once again you lost sight and failed to follow along. The point is, according to you, not enjoying your rape means your uncooperative. Yes it is a ridiculous extreme but it does a wonderful job of highlighting the silliness of your position. Your position is, those that are uncooperatively abused or taken advantage of are wrong to object - which is plainly silly. Which reminds me...I'll be over this weekend to use your toilet and eat your food and use your gas; that is, while I'm using your car. I'm sure you won't mind.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[ral8158]

Communism is a term that describes communities organized by communal social structures, while a socialist society is simply a society characterized by equality for all individuals with fair or egalitarian methods of compensation. Socialism is an incredibly broad term referring to an entire field of social and economic beliefs and theories. Fascism is an ideology whose believers seek to create a single-party government through authoritarian means, for their own purposes.
This is how people in the world understand these words. A country could be communist but not socialist or authoritarian, or socialist but not fascist or communist (France), or fascist and authoritarian but not socialist or communist (Britain is headed here). These terms refer to directions like north, south, east, and west, and can not 'fail'. They are used to describe. That's the purpose of adjectives. To say that they're all failures is simply stupid: Socialism is going strong world around and communism is cropping up in the form of communes and co-ops around the world. Whether this is a bad or a good thing is up to the reader.

But whatever, I'm going to go get my soy half-caf. (I didn't go to college for five years, thanks)

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[zulux]

Thanks for the nice posting, I was hoping it would degrade to name calling and then I'd win :)

When most of us right-wing-nut-job think of Socialism, it's Stalin, Pol-Pot, or Cuba. As you would term it "Authoritarian Socialism" - and I don't see any practical difference between it and Fascism. Both are devolve into one-party states that kill millions of people and have shitty economies.

But here's my silly point - democratic Socialism is not the panacea that we all wish it was, as there's no democratic socialism state that can even support it's own population. All of western Europe is having trouble keeping their birth-rates up. My pet theory, is that mentally people are so taxes that they can't even thing about having children - especially when both parents work.

Socialism also removes a bit of Darwinin strees on a culture/people - it protects people who don't or can't contribute. This may or may not be bad given your long term viewpoint.

Our family fought this by just not being greedy - we don't own a bunch of junk so we have enough money and time to spawn. ...

I do love a good CoOp - but they work simply because you can leave whenever you want to and thus have to 'compete' to survive. ...

Enjoy your latte - I hope it's shade grown organic fair trade. ;)

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[iminplaya]

Heh, you should see what they say about the dumb suckers that vote for them.

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[iminplaya]

Why do we elect these bozos as our leaders?

IOW, who's the real idiot?

Re:This is just sheer stupidity.

[aztracker1]

Was actually a Farscape reference, not a B5 (Drazi) reference.. ;)

My first thought was...

[ByOhTek]

What was he eating that he clogged up the US toilet?

Then it turns out it's just petty politician squabbling. Gotta love politicians.

Re:My first thought was...

[Anonymous Coward]

What was he eating that he clogged up the US toilet?

Thats a legitimate complaint... do you know how much it costs to get a plumber to do a service call?

Re:My first thought was...

[Spazztastic]

What was he eating that he clogged up the US toilet?

Thats a legitimate complaint... do you know how much it costs to get a plumber to do a service call?

Plumber's Crack... In Zero G!

/shudders

Re:My first thought was...

[Thelasko]

I noticed during the tour of the ISS that the Russian side of the space station felt very remote from the rest for the station. I also noticed the American astronaut was using the American exercise equipment and the Russian cosmonaut was using the Russian exercise equipment. It didn't seem like a big deal at the time, but now it apparently is.

Re:My first thought was...

[Vectronic]

I kinda thought something along those lines as well, like the astronauts stock piling lots and lots of brown missiles.

Re:My first thought was...

[NatasRevol]

It's 40% larger!

Re:My first thought was...

[mrdoogee]

We choose to build a super toilet on the Moon. We choose to crap on the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.

Re:My first thought was...

[qmaqdk]

Thats a legitimate complaint... do you know how much it costs to get a plumber to do a service call?

I can just hear him now. Just after arriving on the Space Shuttle: "Well, there's ya problem."

Re:My first thought was...

[camperdave]

We choose to build a super toilet on the Moon. We choose to crap on the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.

...because when you gotta go, you gotta go!

Re:My first thought was...

[BlackSnake112]

not because they are easy, but because they are hard,

You might want to see a doctor about that. Leaving* a poop is not supposed to be hard.

*For some reason taking a poop doesn't make sense. I usually leave it, then flush it away. For the ISS, what ever is not burned up is taken back to Earth. So in their case, some return shuttle/capsule will be taking all the poop with it. I would not want to be on that trip.

(I)SS

[Sneeka2]

Politicians: Hard at work to put the "I" in ISS...

Re:(I)SS

[hansamurai]

Politicians: Hard at work to put the "SS" in ISS.

Just Godwin'd this somehow.

It's because

[tomhath]

They leave the seat up...

Re:It's because

[Samschnooks]

Really? I thought they stunk the whole place up? You know, all those potatoes, Borscht, vodka, etc... makes for really really stinky doo doo.

Re:It's because

[morgan_greywolf]

Additionally, there seem to be squabbling about the 'under/over' controversy with the toilet paper roll.

Re:It's because

[Zencyde]

Over is the proper fashion!

Re:It's because

[truthsearch]

I'm not sure which is funnier: posting your vote, or getting moderated informative.

Re:It's because

[Nerdfest]

It's purely a political 'pissing contest'.

Re:It's because

[Anonymous Coward]

it's 'informative' because you can't moderate something 'damn straight!'

Re:It's because

[Richard Steiner]

Not if you have cats. Unless you enjoy rewinding the roll every day. :-)

Re:It's because

[morgan_greywolf]

Doesn't seem to matter to my cats. Somehow they are able unwind the roll no matter which way you put it. My male cat, for instance, can stand and balance on his hind legs with no trouble at all for relatively long periods of time.

Re:It's because

[NatasRevol]

If I could, I'd mod you "-1, Disagree".

Re:It's because

[MobyDisk]

Why not just mount it on a vertical axis, instead of a horizontal one?

Re:It's because

[Reziac]

If you have a puppy, you learn to keep the roll on the back of the toilet, at which point over/under becomes irrelevant.

Gah, now I suppose people will fight over whether the roll end should face right or left!!

Re:It's because

[furby076]

Under unwinds more then over. Trust me I bitch at my g/f all the time for putting it under instead of over. She's also clumsy and oblivious to her knocking of the roll causing it to spin all over the floor.

Re:It's because

[Richard Steiner]

We actually put the TP on a shelf now. Out of easy reach for them. That solves the issue!

Re:It's because

[Lehk228]

over is less suitable because when pulled straight out the paper is pressed downwards with gravity, creating marginally more resistance and a higher break % than if the paper goes under slightly lifting the roll when pulled straight out.

in addition when there is a draft paper placed over is farther from the wall and more likely to be blown around.

Re:It's because

[DamienNightbane]

More than anything, I want to see a "-1, Stupid" mod added. Sometimes someone isn't offtopic or trolling. They're just flat out wrong or stupid.

it is amazing that humans ever developed the wheel

[Anonymous Coward]

im sure some cave man council decided it would create too much cooperation between rival clans, and tried to stop the project.

Toilet abuse!

[Gizzmonic]

Oh, we've all known someone who's abused the toilet in the past. It can make your office feel like a real dump! But the solution isn't to write passive-aggressive notes or lock the bathroom...it's really even easier than that! Just jettison the bathroom-abuser into the cold, heartless void of space! That'll learn 'im!

This has been a message...from SPACE!

Re:Toilet abuse!

[cbiltcliffe]

Revenge is a dish best served cold.

It is very cold in space.

Re:Toilet abuse!

[C0vardeAn0nim0]

mod parent "+1 wrath of khan reference"

Re:Toilet abuse!

[cbiltcliffe]

It took 3 1/2 hours for somebody to catch that.

I was kind of worried there, for....well, 3 1/2 hours.

Do it anyway

[snowwrestler]

What are the bosses going to do, stop by their desk and give them a stern talking-to?

It seems the U.S. should not be antagonizing the Russians, seeing as how we're going to be dependent on them for manned spaceflight pretty soon now...

Re:Do it anyway

[ShadowRangerRIT]

If you even read the whole summary, you'd note that the Russians began it by charging to use "their" resources. U.S. astronauts can't use Russian facilities either without incurring a hefty bill. Both sides are being petty children.

Re:Do it anyway

[Scutter]

What are the bosses going to do, stop by their desk and give them a stern talking-to?

The alternative is "you never go to space again and your career as an astronaut/cosmonaut is over". There have been lots of stories in the past about how astronauts are treated like lab rats but they put up with it because it's the only way to get to orbit.

Re:Do it anyway

[inviolet]

If you even read the whole summary, you'd note that the Russians began it by charging to use "their" resources. U.S. astronauts can't use Russian facilities either without incurring a hefty bill. Both sides are being petty children.

No, this one is on the Russians. They started it. The Americans are just playing tit-for-tat (with random forgiveness, we presume), which is always an appropriate moral strategy.

This is not the first time the Russians, bankrupt, have pulled a stunt like this. Mir was full of junk because the Russians would lease space to whoever to run an experiment and would then refuse to bring the experiment's materials back to Earth. They kept them on board in order to continue charging the (exorbitant) rent for space aboard Mir. The cosmonauts complained about the piles of junk, though not publicly.

Re:Do it anyway

[EddyPearson]

"Both sides are being petty children."

Such a departure from the US and Russia of old...

Re:Do it anyway

[sshir]

Russians began it by charging to use "their" resources

Actually, Russians started to charge for the ride to the station which is completely understandable considering costs involved.

Summary is rather inflammatory by calling it "charging for resources".

Yea, the toilet thing is a really petty retaliation. But this is the era of asymmetric warfare after all...

Re:Do it anyway

[Anonymous Coward]

After an extended tour on the ISS, your career in space pretty much *is* over. You never completely recover from the bone loss after an extended stay in zero-G.

Re:Do it anyway

[JCSoRocks]

How convenient! Why bother keeping my stuff in a storage unit on earth when I could be storing it in Mir? Why didn't I learn about this sooner? Too bad it's too late to do it now...

Re:Do it anyway

[teh kurisu]

I read a book when I was a kid in which the governments of the world had decided that war was essential for the well-being of society, but rather than have a messy ground war (or sea-war, the world being flooded), the war was conducted in space. The battles were choreographed and the participants were 90cm tall clones (smaller ships use fewer resources).

I wonder, if the toilet wars go nuclear, whether this might be our future.

Re:Do it anyway

[TWX]

This is not the first time the Russians, bankrupt, have pulled a stunt like this. Mir was full of junk because the Russians would lease space to whoever to run an experiment and would then refuse to bring the experiment's materials back to Earth. They kept them on board in order to continue charging the (exorbitant) rent for space aboard Mir. The cosmonauts complained about the piles of junk, though not publicly.

Aah, the Russians, Capitalists through and through...

Re:Do it anyway

[DetpackJump]

The Americans are just playing tit-for-tat

Or in this case: shit-for-shat

Re:Do it anyway

[furby076]

The cosmonauts complained about the piles of junk, though not publicly.

If not publicaly then how do you know about comrade?

Re:Do it anyway

[caluml]

Really? So the drugs they give people with osteoporosis don't help it rebuild? I'm not disagreeing, I just thought that rebuilding bones was easily done.

Re:Do it anyway

[khallow]

I hear it varies a lot. Some people experience very little bone loss while others indeed never completely recover.

Re:Do it anyway

[k-macjapan]

The Americans are just playing tit-for-tat

Or in this case: shit-for-shat

If the Japanese get involved it would be shit-for-scat...

Ah the bureaucrat's

[Beached]

This must have been a bureaucrat level 34 or better that started this. A 35 wouldn't know how to fill out the proper acquisition forms.

Take a few deep breaths, guys

[Ukab the Great]

The escalation must stop before they argue over sharing of oxygen!

Re:Take a few deep breaths, guys

[sunking2]

Entirely plausible as I don't believe the Russian shitter is hooked up to the urine processor and wcs, which ultimately is fed to produce oxygen. If they aren't pulling their weight with the pee then they should have to hold their breath.

Ruskies Plan

[cgfsd]

"The average Rooskie, son, don't take a dump without a plan."

Re:Ruskies Plan

[Em Emalb]

Captain Ramius: It reminds me of the heady days of Sputnik and Yuri Gagarin when the world trembled at the sound of our rockets. Now they will tremble again - at the sound of our silence. The order is: engage the silent drive.

Re:Ruskies Plan

[mrdoogee]

Jonesy: Sonar is working, Captain. The Russian disappeared. One minute, he was steady 1000 yards off the bow, and then he was gone. And for a second, I thought I heard...

Mancuso: Heard what?

Jonesy: I thought I heard singing, sir.

Mancuso: Singing?

Jonesy: Yes, sir.

Re:Ruskies Plan

[Vadim Makarov]

Here: http://media.vad1.com/temporary_url_20070929kldcg/v-anthem-sovietunion-1977-acapella-the_hunt_for_red_october_1990.mpg

This sort of thing...

[agnosticanarch]

... is what will lead to the wars of the next century, if we're not careful!

Why can't we all just get along?!

~AA

Strike!

[patro]

They should go on strike until normalcy is restored.

Re:Strike!

[troll8901]

There's 100,000 people willing to take their place.

Don't use the Vulcan's toilet

[commodore64_love]

"Or vice-versa the humans toilet. The Earth-Vulcan politicians are squabbling over the respective costs, and don't want non-citizens using their toilets." - United Federation of Planets, official notice

That's what Star Trek would be like if it were realistic - trade and cost disputes. Or just watch Babylon 5 ("By Any Means Necessary").

Re:Don't use the Vulcan's toilet

[baKanale]

But the Federation is pretty much post-scarcity, at least with respect to consumer goods. Why would you fight over who uses which crapper when you have infinite toilets?

Re:Don't use the Vulcan's toilet

[ArcherB]

"Or vice-versa the humans toilet. The Earth-Vulcan politicians are squabbling over the respective costs, and don't want non-citizens using their toilets." - United Federation of Planets, official notice

That's what Star Trek would be like if it were realistic - trade and cost disputes. Or just watch Babylon 5 ("By Any Means Necessary").

I thought they just beamed the crap directly from your colon into the anti-matter reaction chamber or Jefferies tubes or something.

Re:Don't use the Vulcan's toilet

[p0tat03]

The same reason perfectly wealthy people quibble over pennies on a dinner bill? When scarcity is no longer a concern, you're still left with the assholes of the world :)

Re:Don't use the Vulcan's toilet

[lahvak]

Because it's there?

Re:Don't use the Vulcan's toilet

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought they just beamed the crap directly from your colon into the anti-matter reaction chamber or Jefferies tubes or something.

That's disgusting. The Jefferies tubes are there for people to crawl through when they want to bypass the elevator system, steal stuff, carry out assassinations etc. You can't just fill them with crap!

Re:Don't use the Vulcan's toilet

[servognome]

You'd just find new things to squabble over.
Petty things, like a bottle of fine wine (synthahol just don't cut it), a table at the bar, who cheated at pool/chess, women, who is the redshirt who has to beam down with the officers to the planet of horrifying death.

Re:Don't use the Vulcan's toilet

[sgtrock]

...trade and cost disputes. Or just watch Babylon 5 ("By Any Means Necessary").

Wow. Just a few weeks ago I started re-watching the entire series. I saw that episode about a week ago. Talk about fortuitous timing! :)

Re:Don't use the Vulcan's toilet

[cstdenis]

Star Trek universe does have stuff like that. We just don't see it much because that's not what the Enterprise is for so all we hear are various references to it.

B5 on the other hand was made just for that kind of political activity. I'm sure the federation has some star base somewhere for that too.

Re:Don't use the Vulcan's toilet

[furby076]

Whenever me and my g/f split the bill I always tip the waiter less if he charges me the extra penny on an add numbered bill ;)

That'll teach him to assume the guy should pay more.

Re:Don't use the Vulcan's toilet

[Haoie]

Ah, no.

In the future nobody needs to poop. Seriously.

Re:Don't use the Vulcan's toilet

[ItsJustAPseudonym]

"Or vice-versa the humans toilet. The Earth-Vulcan politicians are squabbling over the respective costs, and don't want non-citizens using their toilets." - United Federation of Planets, official notice

That's what Star Trek would be like if it were realistic - trade and cost disputes. Or just watch Babylon 5 ("By Any Means Necessary").

I thought they just beamed the crap directly from your colon into the anti-matter reaction chamber or Jefferies tubes or something.

No. Direct to the *food synthesizer*.
See how that works?

Re:Don't use the Vulcan's toilet

[glittalogik]

On a related note, The brown colour of human excrement is largely due to the iron in dead red blood cells. Vulcans' copper-based blood means that their poop is most likely cyan.

Re:Don't use the Vulcan's toilet

[commodore64_love]

>>>I thought they just beamed the crap directly from your colon into the anti-matter reaction chamber or something.

Yeah that's what they TELL you, but in reality Mr. Scott is a wizard and he utters some magic words, waves his wand, and presto. He just covers-up that fact by mumbling random junk about engines and whatnot. Star Trek is actually a fantasy show, like Harry Potter.

Grow up

[Tony Freakin Twist]

It's this kindergarten shit that keeps the world from moving forward. Freakin pissing contests with no winner. Plus - the Russian bathroom doesn't have a webcam.

Re:In Soviet Space Station

[east coast]

Seriously though, can't the crew just tell the people on the ground to shove it up their ass?

I think that's pretty much what they're saying: 'Cosmonauts are above the ongoing squabble, no matter what officials decide,' says Padalka. 'We are grown-up, well-educated and good-mannered people and can use our own brains to create normal relationship. It's politicians and bureaucrats who can't reach agreement, not us, cosmonauts and astronauts.'

It's refreshing to have such a public statement of defiance in the face of stupidity. Too bad Republicans and Democrats (not just the politicians but also their brown shirts on the ground) don't do the same in a very forward manner. Yes, Slashdot drones, I'm looking at you.

Not stupid at all!

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Remember, the ISS is now recycling urine for drinking water. Allowing cosmonauts to use our toilet would risk the contamination of our precious bodily fluids. Twice, no less.

Re:Not stupid at all!

[stuntpope]

Whoooosh! (and that's not the sound of a toilet flushing)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057012/

Re:Not stupid at all!

[scubamage]

You, good sir, get huge kudos points for the Strangelove reference. Bravissimo!

Re:Not stupid at all!

[MacColossus]

Must maintain Purity of Essence. Nuclear wars have been started over such things. (Dr. Strangelove)

Re:Not stupid at all!

[oneTheory]

We don't have to avoid the cosmonauts, but we should deny them our essence.

Re:Not stupid at all!

[ausekilis]

In Soviet Russia, toilet flush you. Perhaps there's just an incompatibility with Russian toilets and astronauts.

Re:Not stupid at all!

[DoofusOfDeath]

Remember, the ISS is now recycling urine for drinking water. Allowing cosmonauts to use our toilet would risk the contamination of our precious bodily fluids. Twice, no less.

No, the problem is that the American filtration system can't process that much metabolized vodka. After five days it would become the International Party Station.

Re:Not stupid at all!

[Dragon_Eater]

Personally I think it's more of an issue when the ISS HAS more than one toilet in the first place!! Why on a craft so space constranined would you add a second washroom?!? Myabe for backup purposes but the fact that they went throught the entire process of putting a second one up there leaves me baffeled!

Re:Not stupid at all!

[JerkBoB]

Gah... Get the quote right if you're going to quote something!

"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here! This is the war room!"

Re:Not stupid at all!

[Hognoxious]

Why on a craft so space constranined would you add a second washroom?!?

For the women?

Re:Not stupid at all!

[aliquis]

Wow, you americans are really afraid of communism? =P

I don't think it spread thru urine ..

Re:Not stupid at all!

[TheKidWho]

Not at all, it was a reference to a movie, Dr. Strangelove.

Re:Not stupid at all!

[Poltras]

Allowing cosmonauts to use our toilet would risk the contamination of our precious bodily fluids.

Urine is sterile

So is your sense of humor...

Re:Not stupid at all!

[FTWinston]

In case the first one breaks? You have to have a back up crapper, as the alternative is having it all floating round the room with you...

Re:Not stupid at all!

[couchslug]

"Twice, no less."

"Two astronauts, one cup?"

Re:Not stupid at all!

[Anonymous Coward]

Urine is usually sterile before elimination

There, fixed that for ya.

a UTI and can cause it to be not sterile.

After leaving the body, bacteria go *to town*, creating ammonia from the breakdown of urea, and creating a distinctly not-sterile soup

Repeating the meme "it's sterile" is technically correct, most of the time - but not helpful to most people. The word "sterile" leads people to think of urine like other "sterilized" things like bandages or hospital instruments - but urine has a huge number of chemicals that almost immediately lead it to become not sterile once leaving the body.

Re:Not stupid at all!

[Sponge Bath]

I was thinking you could poop in a plastic bag and throw it outside. However, a frozen turd traveling at over 7km/s might pose a serious hazard.

Re:Not stupid at all!

[DeskLazer]

You're taking the piss right out of it!

Re:Not stupid at all!

[obscuro]

would risk the contamination of our precious bodily fluids. Twice, no less.

Only if cosmonauts piss FLOURIDE?! ...to whit...

Ripper: Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face?.... ...You know when fluoridation first began? ....1946. 1946, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your post-war commie conspiracy?

Re:Not stupid at all!

[BlackSnake112]

I would hope that the poop would burn up on entry (reentry?) in the atmosphere. If not, what the hell are they eating up there?

But pointing out shooting stars could be awkward.

Person A: Look a shooting star!
Person B: Nope. The ISS just flushed.

Re:Not stupid at all!

[glittalogik]

Perhaps that should have been "sploosh!"

Re:Not stupid at all!

[dwywit]

Have you ever shared a house/apartment? You know, with other people?

If I need to "go", and the toilet is occupied, I can, if necessary, "go" outside and bury the result. Something about my cooking means that there is frequently a queue for the lav in the mornings. Good thing for our bowel health, I suppose, but it's not fun anticipating an accident that hasn't happened since I wore nappies (diapers).

Re:Not stupid at all!

[Hordeking]

We don't have to avoid the cosmonauts, but we should deny them our essence.

In other words, if both myself and Xenia Onatopp were aboard the ISS, I should refrain from getting head from her?

That fuckin' sucks.

Re:Not stupid at all!

[bentcd]

Gah... Get the quote right if you're going to quote something!

"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here! This is the war room!"

In his defense, the 2004 documentary is called "No Fighting in the War Room or Dr. Strangelove and the Nuclear Threat" according to imdb ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0445088/ ). So it's a quote of sorts.

Re:Not stupid at all!

[GooberToo]

Urine is sterile

Only so long as it remains in the bladder and the person does not have a bladder infection or is dehydrated. There is a huge difference between sterile urine in the bladder and it remaining so as it exits the body. The later is far more unlikely even assuming the urine in question is sterile in the bladder.

And in other news...

[Pvt_Ryan]

Today WWIII became a reality when the US stood proudly over their bog and stated "No Russian arse will again threaten to dirty our brilliant white potty."

I am glad to see the politicians earning their pay. Shame they're still a waste of money (and oxygen in general) no matter how you look at it.

Re:And in other news...

[Pvt_Ryan]

Yes.. Why?

Sounds familiar...

[MBCook]

It reminds me of a movie I've seen before.

How childish a thing to do.

Re:Sounds familiar...

[phorm]

Dave: "Hal, open the washroom door, now!"

HAL 9k: "I can't do that, Dave"

Dave: "Geeze HAL. I really have to crap, now!"

HAL 9k: "Then you shouldn't have eaten the Russian's bean burritos Dave, you know what those do to you!"

Dave: "Aarrrrrggghhh"

Re:If he has to go...

[Sockatume]

I think if someone can figure out how to piss on the floor in a freefall environment with no architectural frame of reference for up and down, you've got no right to stop them.

What Next?!?

[wipeMyButt]

Next thing you know they're going to make sure you only share bodily fluids with those of your own nationality, and that is going to cause some awkward pairings. Well, more awkward...

Re:What Next?!?

[Chairboy]

If you're sharing any bodily fluids with people while using the toilet, Mandrake, then you're doing something terribly wrong.

Fair enough, but...

[ultraexactzz]

Where the hell does the Japanese guy get to go? I mean, when you gotta go, you gotta go.

Re:Fair enough, but...

[Amazing Quantum Man]

Anywhere he wants to. Are you going to argue with Godzilla?

Re:Fair enough, but...

[Experiment 626]

Well, he can't go in the American toilet, he can't go in the Russian one. Sounds like he has to boldly go where no man has gone before.

Re:Fair enough, but...

[shutdown -p now]

Obviously, in the interest of fair allocation of expenses, he has to split the dump between Russian and American toilets.

Re:Fair enough, but...

[elrous0]

They hang him outside and tell him not to hold his breath.

Re:Fair enough, but...

[WindBourne]

Same place as all westerners; In the john. My guess is that the ground crew says NOT to share, but in space, they quietly do so.

Re:Fair enough, but...

[DMoylan]

easy peasy for the japanese. have you not seen their training programme? :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEOz7gaFfmU

those buggers can endure anything.

Re:Fair enough, but...

[cffrost]

In a girl's mouth? Oh, wait...

Invisible Lines

[scubamage]

You know, its amazing to think how much progress has been destroyed, avoided, or never attained because of stupid, idiotic, invisible little lines drawn up by a bunch of dead men. Maybe that's why I love the internet? It's kind of above this bullshit.

Re:Invisible Lines

[Firemouth]

Maybe that's why I love the internet? It's kind of above this bullshit

You must be new here?

Re:Invisible Lines

[mewsenews]

Maybe that's why I love the internet? It's kind of above this bullshit.

It was above this bullshit. Ask a Canadian what they think of Hulu and you'll get a response similar to a Cosmanaut speaking about American made space toilets.

Re:Invisible Lines

[DoofusOfDeath]

You know, its amazing to think how much progress has been destroyed, avoided, or never attained because of stupid, idiotic, invisible little lines drawn up by a bunch of dead men. Maybe that's why I love the internet? It's kind of above this bullshit.

I think it's more fair to say that's what was so great about the pre-1990's internet. Once it got politicians' notice, the apoliticalness geek orgy became harder to sustain (DMCA, snooping, RIAA/MPAA, China / Thailand / etc. blocking YouTube, etc.)

Re:Invisible Lines

[Chris Burke]

You know, its amazing to think how much progress has been destroyed, avoided, or never attained because of stupid, idiotic, invisible little lines drawn up by a bunch of dead men.

So you're saying we should stop letting zombies draw our political borders? Yeah I think I can get behind that.

Re:Invisible Lines

[Idiomatick]

Don't worry thats been fading since 2000. Soon we won't have that. And it will suck much more losing it than never having it.

Great a Trade War in Space

[olddotter]

Is it time for Obi Wan and Qui Gon Jin to show up to help resolve matters?

Re:Great a Trade War in Space

[troll8901]

The IIS doesn't have a big enough hanger bay for Qui-Gon's space vehicle. It also doesn't have an atmosphere-retaining force field, artificial gravity, or hanger bay crew.

In short, the IIS doesn't meet minimum safety requirements to risk the lives of our valuable Jedi knights.

Now back to my Trade Wars 2002 game...

Re:Great a Trade War in Space

[geobeck]

Remember, when they showed up, they were locked in a room with deadly gas.

Simple Solution

[ciderVisor]

Do things the RyanAir way.

Tape

[Quiet_Desperation]

They totally have a line of masking tape running down the middle of the station, don't they?

Answer: by the asshole in charge

[PMuse]

All the organs of the body were having a meeting, trying to decide who was the one in charge.

• "We should be in charge," said the feet, "because we carry the body to get the things we need."
• "I should be in charge," said the stomach," because I process food and give all of you energy."
• "I should be in charge," said the eyes, "because without me, you wouldn't know where the food is."
• "I should be in charge," said the brain , "because I do all the thinking, so without me nothing would happen".
• The asshole simply shut up and did nothing.

After a while, the feet, stomach, eyes, and brain agreed that the asshole was in charge.

Re:Answer: by the asshole in charge

[thewiz]

The asshole simply shut up and did nothing.

I call "bogus" on this one. Since when have politicians shut up and done nothing even when told?

Re:Answer: by the asshole in charge

[MadJo]

Though for some people, their dick is what's actually in charge.

Re:Answer: by the asshole in charge

[bugeaterr]

Though for some people, their dick is what's actually in charge.

And those people are collectively known as "men".

Re:Answer: by the asshole in charge

[pluther]

"We're not assholes, we're dicks. And you... you're all a bunch of pussies!"

Re:Answer: by the asshole in charge

[Alexandra Erenhart]

Meh, there are too many dicks in charge. And I'm not talking about the male body part, sadly (or gladly?)

Never Has So Little, Ment So Much, To So Few

[LifesABeach]

Just some thoughts I had about this "issue".

Wouldn't the Russian Government allowing a Russian to defecate on American property send a diplomatic message? How about a bill for, "Consulting Services".

As an American Tax Payer, I see no problem in any foreign national landing a Duke in a John. "Gennady Padalka, you are cleared for descent."

Also, my mind wonders over to the land of Norway, to the game designers who created a game of throwing a Shoe at Ex-President Bush. I cannot help but wonder at what they're doing now. Just a thought.

Re:In Soviet Space Station

[Wilson_6500]

So, wait, this isn't a Russia-USA cold war, it's an Earth Governments-Astronaut cold war?

Or is it a cold war three-way: USA-Russia-Astronauts?

Ass gaskets...

[trailerparkcassanova]

That's what they need but I suppose the next argument will be US or Russian supplied...

I guess when each turd costs a million bucks...

[maillemaker]

I guess when each turd costs a million bucks to process, people start to count the turds they are processing.

How long before...

[fataugie]

One of the agencies sends up a bucket of yellow paint and a paint brush?
(for the bright yellow dividing line down the middle of the station)

Future Presidential Speech text:

"Mr. {insert leader here}, Tear down...er....Wipe Up that line!"

National Toilet

[xgr3gx]

....sweet land of liberty ( flush )
Single tear falls
(ala Homer Simpson when using the Australian toilet with the pump to force the water to swirl in the opposite direction, so Americans would feel at home)

On Soviet Slashdot

[aquatone282]

. . . tired old memes bore you.

Re:On Soviet Slashdot

[dub666]

In soviet russia, toilets shit you!

Throw it out the airlock...

[blueforce]

Just head for the airlock and let 'er rip. Maybe Hubble will find some "new plantetoid" and there will be more incentive to save it.

Separate Facilities?

[morgauxo]

Why do they have separate toilets, excercise equipment to begin with? Space on board is very valuable and equipment is heavy! Throw one countries toilet and the other's excercise equipment out the airlock already! Everyone uses what's left for the cost of having contributed parts to the thing in the first place! The reclaimed space can be used to house more experiments! Ok, for 6 people two toilets might be nice... but for 6 astro/cosmonauts trained and expecting to live together in a cramped environment I bet they can manage to share one. Even if they have to have two... they could have been made by one country in one factory at the same time for less money no doubt. Then they could be installed in the same area of the station, perhaps with some sort of privacy divider between them... I suppose there might even be words for this, like bathroom and stall perhaps? I do have a little sympathy for the Russians though... they have been looking under every rock they can turn for money to keep their space program going. They shouldn't feel bad though... the US seems to have taken a vow of poverty and is donating all it's money to the poor underfed bankers and executives. No doubt NASA will be flipping rocks soon too!

Re:Separate Facilities?

[John Hasler]

> Why do they have separate toilets...

Redundancy. Six people, one toilet: what if it breaks? Also to test different designs.

> ...excercise equipment...

Redundancy (exercise is not optional in free fall), to test different kinds of equipment and to make sure everyone has a chance to work out (they spend hours exercising).

> I do have a little sympathy for the Russians though... they have been looking under
> every rock they can turn for money to keep their space program going.

I guess you hadn't heard that Russia is now a major petroleum exporter.

Re:Separate Facilities?

[socz]

ok so, like, it's like when your room mate at your dorm brings over his buddy to party with you guys right. And maybe he gets a little out of hand and pisses on the toilet, not it it right.

so the next weekend, the guys on the other side of the shared toilet invite their buddy, their equivalent of the nutty professor and unleashes him. So like, now you got this monster that only a professional can handle.

yah not cool huh? that's why you cant have 1!

Re:Separate Facilities?

[mjwx]

Why do they have separate toilets, excercise equipment to begin with?

Redundancy, do you want to take a 350KM drop to get to the nearest crapper when your only one on board breaks?

Re:Separate Facilities?

[morgauxo]

"I guess you hadn't heard that Russia is now a major petroleum exporter. " I was just posting a comment on Slashdot. I'm not supposed to actually know what I am writing about for that am I? Yes, I was aware things are going better over there. I have/had no idea how much better though.

2010: The Year We Make Contact

[NitsujTPU]

Did anybody else read this and think of 2010: The Year We Make Contact. Obviously the movie version, not the book.

"All these toilets are yours except the ones on Europa..."

(For those who haven't seen both, the movie and the book differ significantly. In the book, the Russians are our friends, and we're on a space mission together. In the movie, they're our enemies, but we're still on a space mission together.)

...wow. The politicians should shut up right now.

[icannotthinkofaname]

Is this the "International Space Station", or the "Cool Building In The Sky That We All Helped Build, But We Still Don't Like You And Our Daddy Can Beat Up Your Daddy"?

Politicians get to make up their minds right now. It is one of those two. One implies peaceful coexistence and one implies living side-by-side, never crossing the line that defines "your half" of the room. Which is it?

Government.

[oftenwrongsoong]

Government. What do you expect?

The astronauts in the ISS should declare independence and form their own state in the ISS.

Re:Government.

[Dunbal]

The astronauts in the ISS should declare independence and form their own state in the ISS.

      Fine, but they shouldn't expect any supply missions or help getting back down...

      If you are going to declare "independence" it's a good idea to make sure that you are really "independent" first.

Hell of a way to spend 200 billion dollars.

[tjstork]

Coming off of blowing 700B to bail out a bunch of stupid banks, the USA now caps off 200B in space investments to have astronauts fight over potty time.

Our country is just screwed.

Re:If he has to go...

[MaxwellEdison]

The real question is whether or not you can use the force of urination to provide propulsion...giving women an advantage in spaceflight. While their male counterparts would be forced to propel themselves backwards, they could travel Superman (or rather Superwoman) style...

I'm sorry...but once my mind started travel down that road there was no option of asking for directions back to the Highway of Good Taste(tm).

If I had been up in the ISS ...

[OneSmartFellow]

... when this idiotic directive had been issued, you can be damned sure I would have responded with a directive of my own. It would have read something like this:

I'll shit in any damn toilet I have access to, and I won't itemize the usage of it. If you wish to send a toilet monitor up here to keep track of the usage, feel free; I'm not playing games up here, I'm risking my life for science. In Short: Go F^kc Yourself

Re:If I had been up in the ISS ...

[John Hasler]

That's what Padalka said, in "diplomatic" language.

Re:In Soviet Space Station

[troll8901]

It's refreshing to have such a public statement of defiance in the face of stupidity.

Let's hope it doesn't affect the career opportunities of this brave man. Puppetmasters have been known to flare up at lesser provocations.

Re:In Soviet Space Station

[pelrun]

I suppose they're "brown shirts" because the politicians shit all over them from on high?

it's not a "stand off"

[inerlogic]

it's more of a "squat off"

Re:If he has to go...

[geobeck]

And if one toilet breaks down, and they're not allowed to use the other? They'd have to pee carefully into the middle of the room, creating a gradually expanding urine ball which would be kept stationary with gentle air jets.

A tenuous state of detente would be created as each side configured the air jets to be able to blow the piss ball to the other side of the station.

Unfortunately, the stability of the piss ball detente would be threatened as each side readied its advanced biological weapons program...

Re:If he has to go...

[Rich0]

Uh, wouldn't men have an advantage due to nozzles being mounted on gimbals (of a sort)?

Re:If he has to go...

[witherstaff]

Does the same go for having gas? I mean seriously, every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Can you imagine how many hits that sort of youtube video would have.

Jedi landing policy

[troll8901]

The IIS doesn't have a big enough hanger ay for Qui-Gon's space vehicle.

Sorry, please allow me to clarify that.

The Jedis' landing policy is NOT to execute a standard automated VTOL procedure. Instead, they slam their vehicle onto the hanger floor, skid across in a great shower of sparks (preferably into the reception committee waiting there), wait till the vehicle rests to a stop, blow off the hatches, and jump right out doing a somersault while switching on the light sabers simultaneously.

Thus, we need a large hanger bay to receive them, and preferably a committee of disposable beings.

World War III has been off-shored into outer space

[PolygamousRanchKid]

Instead of wrecking all the continents of the Earth in World War III, it has been successfully off-shored into Earth's orbit in the ISS. It will be decided Big Brother/Reality TV style, with a bunch of folks in cramped quarters ("familiarity breeds contempt"), with a phone-in chuck-a-naut-out-the-airlock each week.

"I'm sorry, Dave, but the viewers have decided . . ."

Re:it is amazing that humans ever developed the wh

[qmaqdk]

Mod parent +1 Epic!

Re:If he has to go...

[MaxwellEdison]

I actually thought of that immediately after hitting submit. My conclusion, for productivity purposes, the man must sacrifice the utility of one hand to aim (not likely to be many offers for "pilots" to steer for him).

O Gee Whiz

[rodney dill]

(what are you looking here for, the title said it all)

Clockwise or Counterclockwise?

[Chmcginn]

All you've done then is shifted the argument.

America as we know it

[phorm]

the bozo in the other political party is out to destroy America as we know it.

Given the corruption, apathy, and abuse-of-power in the current US system, destroying America "as we know it" is not a bad idea. Perhaps doing so and then rebuilding it "as its forefathers intended" (and accounting for current situations) might be a good plan.

Re:America as we know it

[Shakrai]

destroying America "as we know it" is not a bad idea. Perhaps doing so and then rebuilding it "as its forefathers intended" (and accounting for current situations) might be a good plan.

I'm with you. Where do we start? Convincing everybody who is feeding off the Government teat (a group so diverse it ranges from welfare moms to large defense contractors) of the folly of their ways is going to be a tall order, so where do we begin?

Re:America as we know it

[Mr. Slippery]

Perhaps doing so and then rebuilding it "as its forefathers intended" (and accounting for current situations) might be a good plan.

Its forefathers intended it to be a nation run by and for wealthy white men. Which, for the most part, it still is.

Its forefathers intended it to be an agrarian, rural nation -- Jefferson, for example, believed that large cities were "pestilential to the morals, the health and the liberties of man."

Rebuilding the U.S. "as its forefathers intended" would mean a lot of regression; "accounting for current situations" leaves little relevance to many of their ideas.

The Founders had a few good ideas -- the U.S. ought to avoid foreign wars and mind its own business, government ought to be representative and its powers limited, and those limits should be fixed in writing. And I have to give Washington serious props for doing the Cincinnatus thing.

But by and large, they were slave-owning aristocrats, and we ought not worship them or their ideals.

Re:America as we know it

[cayenne8]

Interesting arguments, but, you gotta admit, as we've gotten further and further away from those ideals, and ways of life...

We've gotten more greed, more violence, more sense of entitlement, less drive, less personal responsibility for ones own actions, less entrepreneurial, more broken families, and general falling apart of things that used to unite us all in the US.

It certainly hasn't been getting better over the past 20 years, that's for sure...

Re:America as we know it

[Shakrai]

Jefferson, for example, believed that large cities were "pestilential to the morals, the health and the liberties of man."

And the more time I spend in large cities the more I start to think that he was accurate. Let's see, I've got more stress from dealing with so many people/traffic/stimulations, so that's the "health" item. Liberties are definitely more infringed in urban areas -- how many rural dwellers have to pass through metal detectors to take in a sports event or get into school? Morals are in the eye of the beholder, so I'm not going near that one with a ten foot pole......

Re:America as we know it

[Daniel Dvorkin]

It certainly hasn't been getting better over the past 20 years, that's for sure...

Do you remember twenty years ago? I do. Trust me, kid, you wouldn't want to live there.

Re:America as we know it

[cayenne8]

"Do you remember twenty years ago? I do. Trust me, kid, you wouldn't want to live there."

As a matter of fact....yes. Easily unfortunately.

1989....I liked it. The 80's were kinda fun to me, but, I was referring to society in general, and we weren't quite in as much danger of losing our constitutional freedoms if I recall correctly. We didn't seem to have as much violence, parents weren't afraid to let their kids play outside. Heck, only a few short years before then...you could fsck all you wanted, and the worst you had to fear was getting a shot from the Dr. to clear up any STD you had. YOu didn't worry about dying from the act....we weren't being overrun by our neighbors from the south as badly as now. Music..well, that was starting to get bad...but, it really dead ended in the 90's.

Those are just off the top of my head...so , yes...I think it has gotten worse. Sure, the tech today is SOOO much better, but, it wasn't being twisted and used by the govt. against us quite so badly.

Re:America as we know it

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Oh, God, where to start?

We didn't seem to have as much violence

Murder rates were about 25% higher in 1989 than they are now. Google "US homicide rate by year" and you will find a ton of documentation.

parents weren't afraid to let their kids play outside

The mid-Eighties were the height of the "Satanic ritual child abuse" witch-hunt hysteria. By the late Eighties, the idea that the world was a horrible scary place waiting to eat the poor innocent children was firmly implanted in the public consciousness.

Heck, only a few short years before then...you could fsck all you wanted, and the worst you had to fear was getting a shot from the Dr. to clear up any STD you had.

AIDS was first identified in 1981, and HIV was identified as the pathogen responsible in 1983, IIRC. By 1989, the risks of heterosexual as well as homosexual transmission were well known ... and the drugs available at the time would kill you faster than the disease itself would, as opposed to the current generation of AIDS drugs which, while they still have some pretty nasty side effects, do allow HIV-infected people to live relatively healthy lives for a number of years after infection.

we weren't being overrun by our neighbors from the south as badly as now

America has always gone through ebbs and flows of immigration, and corresponding bouts of hysteria about it. The current anti-immigrant dustup is no different from that which greeted the Scots-Irish, the Germans, the Irish Irish, the Chinese, the Italians, the Poles, etc. Note that most of those people's grandkids and great-grandkids now speak English and call themselves Americans. As for the specific issue of immigration from Mexico, anyone who lives in the Southwest can tell you that it's not exactly a new phenomenon.

Sure, the tech today is SOOO much better, but, it wasn't being twisted and used by the govt. against us quite so badly.

There was this little thing back then called the "Cold War." Ever heard of it? I sure as hell did. I was stationed in Europe when the Wall came down. You want to talk about governments using technology against their citizens, well, holding most of the world's population in a giant game of nuclear "chicken" pretty much takes the cake.

You're not remembering the Eighties. You're remembering a mythical Golden Age, which always seems to occur somewhere between two decades and two centuries in the past. No matter who you talk to, in any country, in any era, there's always The Time When Things Were Better. Except if you go back and look at the facts, you'll see that it hardly ever was.

Re:America as we know it

[cayenne8]

"The mid-Eighties were the height of the "Satanic ritual child abuse" witch-hunt hysteria. By the late Eighties, the idea that the world was a horrible scary place waiting to eat the poor innocent children was firmly implanted in the public consciousness."

Sounds like a west coast thing. Never heard of this type stuff in my part of the country where I grew up.

"AIDS was first identified in 1981, and HIV was identified as the pathogen responsible in 1983, IIRC. By 1989, the risks of heterosexual as well as homosexual transmission were well known ... and the drugs available at the time would kill you faster than the disease itself would, as opposed to the current generation of AIDS drugs which, while they still have some pretty nasty side effects, do allow HIV-infected people to live relatively healthy lives for a number of years after infection."

No one really heard much about it till about '84 or so...and it wasn't widespread, and if you weren't an IV user or having male homosexual anal sex, you likely weren't at a risk back then...I *did* say a few years before '89. Really, till about '84-'85, you could pretty much fsck anything that moved (at least heterosexually) and not have to worry much about dying if you didn't put a helmet on your soldier.

"America has always gone through ebbs and flows of immigration, and corresponding bouts of hysteria about it. The current anti-immigrant dustup is no different from that which greeted the Scots-Irish, the Germans, the Irish Irish, the Chinese, the Italians, the Poles, etc. Note that most of those people's grandkids and great-grandkids now speak English and call themselves Americans. As for the specific issue of immigration from Mexico, anyone who lives in the Southwest can tell you that it's not exactly a new phenomenon."

I guess I should have been more specific. Not immigration from our southern border per se, but, illegal immigration. Not as bad as it is now...except for the big surge that was had when I think it was the Reagan admin, that offered amnesty the first time. (Still not as bad as today in numbers). At least our forefathers pretty much came in the legal route...

As Dennis Miller put it..."I'm not too concerned with anyone coming into our country, just sign the f*cking guestbook on the way in, eh?"

"There was this little thing back then called the "Cold War." Ever heard of it? I sure as hell did. I was stationed in Europe when the Wall came down. You want to talk about governments using technology against their citizens, well, holding most of the world's population in a giant game of nuclear "chicken" pretty much takes the cake"

I wasn't talking about the rest of the world...I really don't care that much what other countries' peoples let their governments do to them. I'm talking strictly about the US, and how it currently is erroding our citizen rights at an alarming pace, first with Bush, and now with the Obama administration.

I"m not saying that back then it was all rosy, every period has its problems. I'm just saying that how people treat each other, society in general, and how the govt. is working against us, was not as bad back then. I feel that life and the very minimun, was much more civil, polite and relaxed then.....and decades before. We've lost a lot of that that we had in society over the past decades, and especially so in the past 20 years...

Re:America as we know it

[BTWR]

No one really heard much about it till about '84 or so...and it wasn't widespread, and if you weren't an IV user or having male homosexual anal sex, you likely weren't at a risk back then... I *did* say a few years before '89. Really, till about '84-'85, you could pretty much fsck anything that moved (at least heterosexually) and not have to worry much about dying if you didn't put a helmet on your soldier.

Ryan White and Arthur Ashe send their love. (Go ahead, I double-dare you to suggest those are exceptional cases).

I'm just saying that how people treat each other, society in general, and how the govt. is working against us, was not as bad back then. I feel that life and the very minimun, was much more civil, polite and relaxed then.....and decades before.

Hey, remember that time the US government purposely gave 400 of its black citizens, hell, 400 of its MILITARY men, syphillis, then watched them die? I could be cynical and say "I guess *snicker* this is what cayenne8 considers the days when the government was better!," but I really doubt you think the gov't-sponsored-and-ordered execution of 400 black men was really a good thing. Really, you're just describing what one of the GPs accurately describes as gleeful remembrance of the "good ole days."

Re:America as we know it

[commodore64_love]

>>>Jefferson, for example, believed that large cities were "pestilential to the morals, the health and the liberties of man."

He was correct. He was also correct about the corporations being a powerful force that could take-away the freedoms of the citizens, mainly through the power of wealth, and secondarily through the subjugation of the People's government. Ref: RIAA. Ref: The various blacklists corporations use to make finding a job nigh-impossible.

>>>Its forefathers intended it to be a nation run by and for wealthy white men

The only man with any wealth was George Washington (land-based wealth, not cash). All the other founders were deep in debt, with the worst being Jefferson who carried the modern-day equivalent of $200,000 over his head. That's why when he died, his home was immediately appropriated by the bankers, divided-up, and sold.

Your statement would be more accurate if you said, "A nation run by some wealthy, some middling, some poor, but overall highly-educated men." Also I think you've forgotten the founders, while they were still alive, extended suffrage from property owners to commoners, including blacks (in the north) and women (Massachusetts, Rhode Island). Study your history before you offer inaccurate opinion.

Freedom takes a slow progress, but it does progress.

As example: Jefferson's proudest achievements were the founding of his college, so all could benefit from an education, the writing of the Declaration of Independence which codified the principle that governments serve the People, not the other way around, and the abolition of Virginia's official state religion, so that all could worship freely. "Whether my neighbor worships one god, many gods, or no gods, matters not to me. His beliefs do not harm my body, my property, nor my rights." It took him forty years of hard work to make all that happen. Not all the Founders' ideals happened immediately.

Re:America as we know it

[commodore64_love]

>>>1989....I liked it.

You have to go much farther back then that. 1910. I obviously don't remember it, but my grandfather did when he was still alive. The one most obvious difference - No income tax. He was allowed to keep every dollar he earned, except for incidentals like sales tax.

Second difference - no RIAA suing you because you played a song on your piano without permission, because even though copyright laws existed, they were designed to favor the people not the corporations. And they had limits.

Third difference - people relied on themselves and their family, not some idiot in D.C. who doesn't care if you live or die. And you could grow your own food, without the EPA or FDA or some other alphabet bozo breathing down your neck and saying, "No no no - you are violating the rationing laws that limit how much corn you're allowed to grow."

Not that 1910 was perfect. Far from it, but it was still better than the present where you're not free to do much of anything, and taxation is at 40% instead of 0-to-1%. If you can't keep the nearly-all the money you earn, then you're not truly free. Somebody else (Congress) owns your body on a part-time basis.

Re:America as we know it

[myth24601]

Hey, remember that time the US government purposely gave 400 of its black citizens, hell, 400 of its MILITARY men, syphillis, then watched them die?

Nobody was purposely infected with syphilis.

The Tuskegee Study did not involve purposely infecting anyone. The study started on black men who were infected with untreated syphilis. Not to minimize what did happen which was still pretty bad. There was no effective treatment for syphilis when the study started in the early 1030s and the treatments that did exist were not effective and quite dangerous. Years later penicillin was developed that could have helped but were never used.

What happened was bad enough, there is no need to make it worse than it was.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_study

Re:America as we know it

[cayenne8]

Yes..I'd say largely both example...were fairly isolated incidences.

I never said any time in the past was a Xanadu. But, that life felt in general, safer, and society, a nicer place to live, grow and raise a family.

And in the early 80's....if you weren't doing risky AIDS type behaviors, odds were still at that time, overwhelminly in your favor you could fuck all you wanted, and not die. Even more so in the decades beforehand.

Re:America as we know it

[BTWR]

Yes..I'd say largely both [Ryan White and Arthur Ashe] examples...were fairly isolated incidences.

IAAD (I am a doctor), and dude, don't act like I didn't dare you. You should have known I already had the stats to back myself up.

"As of December 2001, an estimated 14,262 persons have been diagnosed with AIDS as a result of transfusing contaminated blood or blood products."

To you Cayenne8, Ryan White, Arthur Ashe and 14,260 other "isolated incidents" with names, with real families and real loved ones all send their love.

Re:America as we know it

[BTWR]

You're correct, and I was wrong, to say they were purposely infected. But from your own link: "The Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male was a clinical study, conducted between 1932 and 1972 in Tuskegee, Alabama. The 40-year study was controversial for numerous reasons related to ethical standards, most notably because researchers had failed to treat patients appropriately after the 1940s validation of penicillin as an effective cure of the disease."

Re:America as we know it

[cayenne8]

" "As of December 2001, an estimated 14,262 persons have been diagnosed with AIDS as a result of transfusing contaminated blood or blood products. [ucsf.edu]"

dude.....you're quoting stuff from 2001....

the discussion is from the early, early 1980's.

Re:America as we know it

[BTWR]

Wow, you're still trying to win this. Wow. OK, cayenne8, this may be a shock to you, but transmission of HIV via blood transfusion actually doesn't happen anymore (CDC link. The majority of HIV blood transfusions took place in the (gasp!) early 1980s. You remember, those 14,000 isolated incidents. So, it turns out that the "golden years" were actually the ONLY years you were likely to get HIV from blood transfusions. Seems like the 1980s are specifically WORSE in the very area you are claiming to be better (probably, by now, just to be a troll/flamebaiter).

Re:America as we know it

[cayenne8]

Apples and Oranges man...I was talking about sex.

Not that large of a percentage of the population in the US ever gets a blood transfusion....moot argument man.

:)

Re:America as we know it

[BTWR]

Nope. Nice try though. Let's recap:

1. You said that in the "good old days" you weren't likely to get HIV except for gay sex and IV drug use.
2. I told you that's bullshit, and named Ryan White and Arthur Ashe as 2 examples of people that got HIV from non-sex/drug use.
3. You then said that Ryan White and Arthur Ashe's blood transfusion HIV cases were, in your words "fairly isolated incidences."
4. Then I told you that there were actually 14,262 people that got it that way, with the vast majority in the 1980s before blood screening became routine.
5. Then, instead of admitting you were wrong, you try to change what the debate is about. Instead of admitting that over 14,000 people have died from AIDS as a direct result of blood transfusions, you comically try to argue that "Not that large of a percentage of the population in the US ever gets a blood transfusion.... moot argument man."

Not that large a percentage of the population is a man that has had unprotected sex with another man in the 1980s. Also, not a large percentage of the population shared IV drug needles in the 1980s. So, um... therefore, anyone who got HIV in the 1980s from IV drug use or gay sex was... "a fairly isolated incident," right?

Keep replying, troll! I've gotten 4 fans and 2 friends because of this thread. Keep 'em coming! Gimme another ridiculous argument!

Oh internet advertising...

[Jon-1]

It's hilarious that on my iGoogle page, as I expand and read this story, that there's an ad to "Find Your Perfect Ukrainian Bride."

Re:If he has to go...

[FTWinston]

Not really, no. The principle is that you gain the inverse momentum change to that which you expel... Momentum is mass times velocity, and a piss weights a lot more than a fart.

Depends...

[omuls are tasty]

Depends who you call. I hear that Joe the Plumber has some really good rates.

Re:Depends...

[TWX]

I hear that Joe the Plumber has some really good rates.

No No No! That wasn't what we meant when we expressed interest in shooting him into space!

For no reason in particular, a quote from The Wizard of Speed and Time:

Not Rockettes! I said Rockets!

Pee In Spaaaaace! (que ms piggy)

[d'baba]

I just finished rereading Lucifer's Hammer(1977) and one of the bits concerned how women pee in 0G. Niven doesn't tell. How do the facilities for women differ from men?

Re:Pee In Spaaaaace! (que ms piggy)

[SuiteSisterMary]

As I recall from watching Space Camp as a child, it involves a vacuum.

Oh, and I'd assume the facilities don't differ between males and females; sure, guys can aim, but do you really want to be experimenting with Newton's laws with a stream of piss? Think 'rebound'.

Damn Right.

[Michael Nathan]

Of course they should be charged! The alternative is Communism where the toilet belongs to everyone. That's just Un-American!

Game theory

[Demonantis]

Okay so I am going to use a technique I learned in economics to explain this. This sort of thing happens everyday. I am actually amazed that the class is being useful and applicable. Everyone benefits greatly from the pooled resources of the ISS. Individually they would produce less. Now the Russians felt they could abuse the relationship and benefit by the increased revenue. This worked out in the short term. They had lots of resources and were making money. This cost everyone else significantly. Until everyone responded in kind to the Russians. Now everyone is equally benefiting again, but it is to a lesser extent. Russia Played the dominant position. That is the best choice no matter what the other countries do. This is often seen in most free markets that have few huge players making the decisions.

Americans Get the Short End of the Stick, As Usual

[severoon]

This is particularly unfair when you consider that, even before this dust-up, Americans couldn't use the other nations' toilets anyway. You see, their normal-sized pee tubes would not accommodate our large American junk.

Had to be done, sorry. :-]

Re:Pee In Spaaaaace! (queue ms piggy)

[d'baba]

Niven mentions men using a tube at the end of a hose, ala milking machines. That certianly wouldn't work for women. And, as he states, catheters hurt.

Hey, wait a minute...

[wilder_card]

This brings up a serious thought. Combine the following:

1. The increasing belligerence and nationalism of the current Russian government.
2. The coming retirement of the Space Shuttle with no replacement -- which means Russian rockets will be the only (manned) way to reach the Station.

What's to keep Russia from unilaterally taking over the Station? What, exactly, would we be able to do about it?

Re:Hey, wait a minute...

[TWX]

What's to keep Russia from unilaterally taking over the Station? What, exactly, would we be able to do about it?

Uh, let it die a fairly quick death due to many systems of the station being built by countries other than Russia, to which Russia wouldn't have access to replacement parts or designs as quickly as needed? Russia has experience with Mir (and part of ISS was even slated for Mir 2) but I wouldn't bet on them being able to maintain ISS by themselves.

So who gets to use...

[neile]

The toilet named "Colbert"? The US astronauts? Or nobody but Stephen?

Neil

Space tourism

[TheLink]

IMO space tourism has been the most useful experiment the ISS has conducted.

And at the rate things are going it will remain the most useful experiment.

In mother russia

[dezent]

the toilets use you!

Easy solution

[zbharucha]

The issue of who is allowed to use which stall can easily be settled by a swordfight.

oblig

[pha3r0]

1: Design space station for the furthering of mankind's knowledge.

2: Bitch about who left the seat up.

3: ????

4: Profit!!!

Highly Flammable!

[MrWin2kMan]

I suppose NASA is concerned about the vodka in the Cosmonauts' urine overwhelming the filtration system...

It depends on the portrait..

[scorilo]

I think each national toilet could exert far more inspiration and productivity, depending on the national portrait hung above it. For instance, if the American one were to make use of Dick Cheney's winning smile, everybody would want to use it, causing an unequal distribution of resources. If, OTOH, Stalin were to preside over the Russian act of defecation, the weight might somehow get balanced, restoring a normal consumption of fuel.

ironic?

[micromuncher]

Is Russian poop any different than American poop? Or is it the $24,000 American toilet seats that's the issue?

According to my poll...

[antdude]

... most people want over. See here (still votable).

Re:According to my poll...

[morgan_greywolf]

Could be some ummm...stuffing going on here....

Re:Americans Get the Short End of the Stick, As Us

[Menkhaf]

Things seem to have changed since I watched TV in 1992 when Mr. King got the long fucking end of the stick.

...that might be tasteful, but I'm replying to a post that is modded +5 Funny, even though it really isn't funny. On that note, I suggest I'll be modded +5 Informative.

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress

[bratwiz]

What !?!? Have these politicos not read Heinlein's seminal tome "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" ??

Are they not aware the folly of pissing off someone towering high overhead in orbit with large objects to toss?

(Or in this case the contents of their toilets)

I say: To heck with all the politicians! Let them eat (urinal) cake!

How apropos!

[cyn1c77]

This story distills the essence of the US-Russian relationship: The Russian and American people have no problem getting along with one another, but our governments are completely incapable of any form of cooperation.

So whoever loses this Cold War...

[decep]

... is going to have a large turd to flush?

Re:So whoever loses this Cold War...

[mjwx]

... is going to have a large turd to flush?

Have you ever tried to break up an un-flushable turd at zero-gee?

Re:In Soviet Space Station

[furby076]

And the response from the guys down below
"Astronauts who do not obey our rules will never fly for us again"
"Cosmonauts who do not obey our rules will never come to earth again"

nuts!!!!

[celle]

You guys up there aren't on earth anymore. Just because people down here are acting like idiots doesn't mean you have to. Put up or ignore them.

Re:Pee In Spaaaaace! (queue ms piggy)

[SuiteSisterMary]

Like I said, imagnine an athletic cup on the end of a vacuum, and you have the idea.

Hell, an airplane-style toilet with suction built in would probably suffice.

Re:In Soviet Space Station

[legirons]

Seriously though, can't the crew just tell the people on the ground to shove it up their ass?

That's one way of disposing of it. But is it really worthwhile bringing it all the way back just for that?

Not the Important Issue

[Fieryphoenix]

This is completely asinine and not worth quibbling over. What is really important is to make sure that the Ruskies do not breath a molecule of our precious oxygen!

The "...national toilet"

[mnemotronic]

The idea of 4.36 million cubic yards of concrete alone doesn't sound like much of a landmark. But when that cement is The National Toilet, people sit up and take notice. Forget the toilet seat-shaped tourist trap that now defaces the Grand Canyon. Come survey the "Real" National Toilet from one or both of its pristine vantage points. Photos can't convey the symbolism and substantial presence of this landmark, and the somber reminder to the momentous event that took place over 65 years ago. Sure, it's a tourist trap (3.5 million yearly) and the lines for the elevators will keep you waiting to get to the 86th floor observation deck. But there's no better view than from inside the south rim, where you can reflect on so much. One day a year, the "Bush Years Legacy" comes alive when a lucky individual chosen at random is invited to "pull the handle", initiating a flush of Godzillan proportions. No wide angle lens can come close to conveying the magnitude of this, our Numero Uno American landmark.



(random snips from the top ten natl monuments plus some judicious editing)

Which way is the toilet paper suppose to hang?

[kimgkimg]

Can't wait for the "over the roll" or "under the roll" debates between the two countries...

Hmmm...

[NotmyNick]

It's April 1st in Moscow already?

Re:In Soviet Space Station

[skiingyac]

It does sound to me like a coded version of "We're supposed to pee in our own toilets and whatever else, but that is pointless. Everyone up on the ISS secretly agreed to ignore this nonsense and just not tell on each other, but are tired of having to pretend."

Re:In Soviet Space Station

[DigitAl56K]

'Cosmonauts are above the ongoing squabble, no matter what officials decide,'

Literally.

Bueaurcratic Paperwork In Space?

[Easy2RememberNick]

The article mentions all of this could be resolved if the Russians would just sign the formal agreement paperwork (form # URN8-NP) to have a legal document verifying they agree to the terms and for liability reasons.

Leave it to those politicians

[hesaigo999ca]

Leave it to those stupid f*cks to stick their noses where it does not belong.
I hate them with a passion, as I know many others do, but they do not leave in cramped quarters, and have to go from one side of the space station to another, so what if all of a sudden montesuma's revenge pops up, are they going to enforce those rules and allow the guy to crap his pants....come on...our tax payer dollars at work here.

If ever there was a reason to put someone in a gas chamber, this would be it.
I really hope those politicians responsible for this situation on the space station are reading this (yeah, like they would ever read anything that does not have their signature or name on it.....)
STOP SCREWING WITH THINGS, WE DON'T NEED YOUR 1million and 1 RULES HERE.

"To trump a politician is to know bliss!"