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What Do You Call People Who "Do HTML"?
gilgongo writes "It's more than 10 years since people started making a living writing web page markup, yet the job title (and role) has yet to settle down. Not only that, but there are different types of people who write markup: those that approach the craft as essentially an integration task, and those that see it as part of UI design overall. The situation is further complicated by the existence of other roles in the workplace such as graphic designer and information architect. This is making recruitment for this role a real headache. So, how do you describe people who 'do HTML' (and CSS and maybe a bit of JavaScript and graphics manipulation)? Some job titles I've seen include: Design Technologist, Web Developer, Front-end Developer, HTML/CSS Developer, Client-side Developer and UI Engineer. Do you have any favourite job titles for this role?"
nt
Rude names. :)
http://twitter.com/onion2k
Web Monkey?
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
Propaganda as Nebulous as Apple's or Microsoft's
Unemployed? Seriously, expand your skill set and learn the backend and basic services so you can start to call yourself a full fledged "web developer."
House wives with spare time between cooking and putting the kids to bed make geocities pages with HTML. My advice is to not rely on something like that for your livelihood.
My work here is dung.
an average high school student?
In Soviet Russia jokes are formulaic and decidedly non-humorous.
Web-monkey? :-P
Webmonkey. Can't quite pay them bananas yet, but it's getting that way.
Oh no... it's the future.
Is this going to end up in a Sniglets book or something?
Who cares what you call them, just about any job has a number of titles that are commonly associated with it. I call them web developers but if this is a popularity contest you should have done a Slashdot Poll instead.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
The time where 'doing HTML' (and CSS) was enough to give you a decent career is over imo.
As in, "Why am I paying you to do this? My newphew can do that!"
"My God...it's full of trolls!"
What's this, a set up for a joke about unemployment?
In my more recent experience, html people are liberal arty types who pick up some web design to complement their other skills. Photographers, animators, graphical artists. Webapp designers usually have some html, but often you have a coder and a design person and they have different responsibilities.
HTML by itself just isn't a marketable skillset anymore. Hell, it's hard enough being a graphic artist, or a flash designer, or something like that, who also does html.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
You're a markup writer. Even if you're the best, most semantic, standard following markup writer in the world, you're not a web developer. If you only know the basics of CSS and Javascript, you can hardly call yourself anything but a markup writer.
Design technologist? You're not designing anything.
UI Engineer? Sorry, you're not really engineering anything if you're only using HTML. Either that or you're writing bloated, non-semantic markup.
Front-end / Client Side Developer? If the front end is ONLY HTML (what a boring site)
Sigs are for Terrorists.
But why should an employer pay for PHP when all he needs is the basic skills? The point of the question is that they need to hire some people with basic skills, but they don't know what to call the skillset.
BTW, I vote for "web layout artist".
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Everyone assumes web design is as simple as it was 15 years ago, when it reality it has gotten extremely complex. People just tell you to make a web page do something, and they expect you to work like a good little monkey.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
It's a bit of a misnomer, but what else can you call it? Someone who creates dynamic content is a developer, so if they're not JUST doing HTML and CSS then you could perhaps advertise for that, or perhaps "Creative Web Developer" but that sounds fruity. Bottom line is that you're advertising a job to your potential market of applicants and it's up to you to decide what kind of people you want to attract.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Web Designer. At least that title was used a lot in off-shores/out-sourcing companies I had to deal with.
Web Developer was also used, but to lesser extent and only to distinguish those who can also do JavaScript, PHP, Perl, etc.
Easiest way to find the word du jour is to check job listings.
All hope abandon ye who enter here.
Since HTML is simply a markup language, using tags....a child of SGML, my vote is for 'tagger'.
There was a comment on a developer list (Obj.C) the other day... "I know a fair amount of HTML, so what's the best way for me to learn how to code?"
HTML brings none of the discipline and barely any of the logic associated with coding - call them 'lackeys' or 'site maintenance wonks' - if that's their strength please don't raise them above the status of a fluff girl...
I mean, it's great to have someone available to handle that sort of thing, but can you really sustain a job with this as your only skill?
Qualified would be
a) does HTML, is a graphics designer, can write decent text and hase some education in UI design
b) does HTML, programs any server-side-language (according to the current fashion) and knows Javascript very well, and knows UI (and can talk to class a))
c) does HTML, does databases and knows how to efficiently xslt the xml response of the database by heart and can talk to class b)
Seriously, the original job description given would have been appropriate in 1997.
I still do because I'm too cheap to buy software and too lazy to look for a F/OSS package.
But really, in a production (i.e. being paid to do it) environment actually code by hand??
Those would be my definitions as they relate to the production of HTML. Betty, the lady who types things up, puts them into some simple HTML, and makes a few things italic or bold or adds images is a coder. Bob, who uses PHP to make dynamic pages, is a programmer. Jerry, who uses Dreamweaver to do both, is a designer.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
My title is Web Producer. I didn't pick it, and I sometimes introduce the title with a joke about shooting spider webs from my wrists, or making prosthetic webbed feet for ducks who have lost their paddlers in tragic accidents. It's meant to be "web producer" as a role, like "movie producer" or "music producer", but it sounds stupid. Mainly it means I "do HTML" plus a lot of other digital/interactive design stuff (including programming and database work), and I manage other people who do this stuff.
IMO, there is a difference between a "web designer" and a "web developer" -- the former is closer to a graphic designer and focuses on making stuff pretty, while the latter is closer to a programmer and focuses on making stuff work. In big web studios, there are fleets of "web designers" who create interfaces in heavily-layered Photoshop files, and turn them over to "web developers" who convert them into working web interfaces. It lets people focus on a specific aspect of the process. However, I think something is lost in the process... if possible, a web designer ought to understand the power and limitations of HTML/CSS/etc. Maybe I spent too much time in art school, but I liken it to advanced painters who learn how to make their own paint from pigments/oil/etc., or ceramists who can make their own clay from the raw powders. In a similar vein, I think a web designer should know how to mix their raw materials too: pixels, code, etc.
That's my ideal, anyway.
Liberal? Conservative? Compare perspectives at Left-Right
The thing is, web design isn't any more complicated than making a good power point presentation. You don't put out an employment ad for "Power Point Jockey," you look for someone who has that skill set, as well as some other skill set you need.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
I've done web development for over 10 years now, and "Web designer" or "Web Developer" are the two titles I was most used to when I looked for jobs in this field. These days, my job title is Senior Web Developer, which means I'm essentially a team lead, and my remit covers a number of other fields that, while web related, are not simply just about web page design. (e.g. Server optimization for high-volume traffic, MySQL database design, etc).
Graphic designer implies someone whose strength lies primarily with graphics, rather than a good understanding on web page construction, and how to optimize a page for best performance. They'll likely have number of other graphic-related skills, such as in print media.
An information architect is certainly not what you're after, since that is far more abstract and higher level, IMO, than just a simple code monkey. While they would have an excellent understanding of Web Design and Database Design, I imagine their graphical expertise is very low, and they're far more interested in what should be done, rather than doing it themselves.
Design Technologist and UI Engineer sound like their primary focus is on usability, and therefore may be weak in other areas.
'If Christ had tweeted the sermon on the mount, it might have lasted until nightfall.' - John Perry Barlow
Errata:
"or they might enter data into an HTML."
Should be:
"or they might enter data into a CMS."
noobs
Don't let them fool you into thinking they're programmers ;)
Seriously though, HTML is usually a starting point and they usually go on to design or web programming. You have to start somewhere.
AirSpeak - http://itunes.com/apps/AirSpeak
How about child care? No money to be made there either?
Give me someone who can do proper HTML anytime over some jack of all trades who can do everything a little bit but is master of none.
Sure, if you think slashdot layout is good, then perhaps you don't need a html/css wizard but some of us have higher standards.
If you are serious about web apps you need just a good a HTML "coder" as a database expert and sysadmin as a coder and project manager.
But what to call it? No idea, the job is pretty rare on its own but as long as HTML is constantly evolving standard raped by every browser, only a handfull will be really good in it.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
That's basically what you do. Develop interfaces, a web interface. Based on strict conventions. I call myself ID because I do both design and developing. ID is both Interface Developer and Interface Designer. Touche!
No, really.
They are distinct (or should be, on any project larger than a local church site) from the graphic designer and the "DB Guy."
I've seen all sorts of crazy titles on their resumes, and that's fine, self-esteem and all that, but "HTML Guy" is how we refer to them.
Now, gather 'round and have some peppermints: Back in the Day, 1992-93, when I project-managed my first website, we were paying "Web Guys" six figure salaries, cuz basically Corporate needed it yesterday and it was all a big mystery. Had something to do with computers, they said, so the Web Guys came out of the IT Departments, bringing their blink tags with them. Within a very short time, it became clear that it was the Art and Content that mattered, and that's where the money went. (Best Analogy: On Broadway, nobody pays to watch the Stage Crew, essential though they may be.) The smart art and design people learned what they needed to hang out a Web shingle, and the HTML-only guys were sent back to the server room. Some of them became "designers" (they're usually the ones singing the praises of "neat" and "clean" designs; translation: they'll electrocute themselves if they try to open PhotoShop), but the smarter ones moved over to the Web DB side of things.
What do we call the "HTML-Only Guys" today? How about: "hungry"
If I need to crank out 400 HTML pages, I'll hire an HTML jockey.
If I need to crank out 400 ppt presentations, I'll hire a temp ppt jockey.
There is no reason to hire & pay for skills that won't be used. If I don't have enough HTML/ppt work to keep the respective employee occupied, then I think about either hiring someone part-time, or then I think about complimentary skills.
If I can get extra skills at the same price, then of course I'll do so (unless I think that makes the prospective hire a flight risk). The point is to avoid overpaying for simple work.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Even a webmonkey does some backend work.
I call them crazy.
The thing is, web design isn't any more complicated than making a good power point presentation.
PowerPoints are not interactive. They share some concepts with web design, but you could also say they share concepts with laying out a newspaper or posting a floor map in a museum: it needs to look nice and be well-organized so that the viewer walks away with the proper information and message. But making a good web site is quite a bit more complicated than making a good PowerPoint, in concept and in actual production of the thing. And in management.
Then again, you didn't say "GOOD web design"... you just said "web design." In that case, carry on.
Liberal? Conservative? Compare perspectives at Left-Right
There are two main groups that fall into this category: artists and engineers.
Artists (or graphic designers) will know HTML, CSS, maybe a little JS. But it will be to complement their 'real' skill set, which is photoshop, illustrator, maybe Flash, and the like. They will focus on making the page attractive to users, and if they are worth their salt, easy to navigate as well.
Engineers (or web application developers) will know HTML, JS, hopefully CSS (!), along with PHP, SQL, maybe Java or Ruby. Their natural environment is the backend, but they will know enough about page creation to get by, like for making proof of concept demos. Quite often their idea of an elegant and easy to use web interface is a bunch of text links and a button.
Of course, in real life, you find yourself doing a combination of these things.
Oh, and to answer the original question : what do you call someone that does HTML, CSS, JS and nothing else ?
A: an intern.
OUTSOURCED
It is a horrible looking language but it's fun. Almost as fun as trolling! ;)
Ours is referred to as "Stupid Cunt Who Is Learning As She Goes But Has A Job Because Her Boss Believes Her Catchphrase-Laden Bullshit" aka "Web Designer"
After multi-year stints at IBM and at other companies, I have come to learn that those who write HTML are called Enterprise Architects. I have seen management time and time again put these people in charge of site development. At IBM I actually had an "Enterprise Architect" tell me that they build Java right into their web page. I thought he meant a older Type 1 JSP page. Nope, turns out he meant Javascript, and we all know that Java is to JavaScript like Car is to Carpet.
Personally, I don't think these people should even have jobs, if writing HTML is their only skill. This is such a low brainpower job that writing HTML can be wrapped into another low brainpower job, like mid-level management
"perverts"
considering the way most websites are designed nowadays i would call them idiots, (or their supervisors are) :D
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
By now, the most common cases are that you use a program that generates the HTML and/or you did that program.
Code Monkey
Web design is far more complex than webdesign. Poor webdesign is point-and-click, but to do it properly, you're going to need a text editor.
Learn about Photography Basics.
Really? So there's a drag-and-drop program with nice visual effects that creates a standards-compliant page that works in all browsers, is accessible and resizable, and degrades gracefully when JS/CSS aren't available? Because last time I checked that was kinda hard.
Or were you thinking of crappy pages made in Microsoft FrontPage?
(Note: I sass you hesitantly because I recognize your username and remember you are a smart guy. :) )
I myself wonder, are you available for hire? I'm guessing you'd be cheap.
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Depending on how you're developing your site and/or Web application, having a guy or gal that can take the designer's design mockup (usually still in .PSD format) and properly interpret it into clean HTML and CSS wireframes is a godsend for the Web Developers.
There's a lot of finesse involved in doing this right: you need to make sure it works in all browsers, that the page size isn't too large, and that it stretches and scrolls and wraps in all the right places. And no, Dreamweaver still doesn't cut it, so it takes quite a bit of skill and experience to do it right.
With experience, most of the good ones move either up or down the stack, depending on their interest/strengths, but we wouldn't have been able to complete several large client projects without our "HTML/CSS/JS/UI/stuck-between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place guy".
body massage!
Front end developer is the most common term I hear nowadays. A combination of design skills, HTML skills, CSS skills, and a smattering of JS is usually the skillset I see for Front end developers.
Unless you can design as well the role of just writing html, css and JavaScript is going away because the web is just becoming too dynamic for such a role to exist without the person doing some actual design as well, imo.
Mind you there are still companies that have people that will focus on the design (or contract it out), some receives a PSD and builds out templates for to be used within code and in some ways that's preferable. Rather than wasting the designer's time worrying about new standards, they can focus solely on coming up with great designs, new trends in the look & feel for web sites and it means the guy coding Java, PHP or whatever all day doesn't have to worry about new changes in HTML / CSS standards either.
But the thing is unless you work for a web design/development company then your employer probably only has an Intranet and a few websites. They won't necessarily have someone designing full time so it's expected that they do the design and the mark-up.
It would be good to either learn more code or design and future proof your career or live with the fact future employment may only come from small time companies that aren't quite up to date like larger companies.
I think it was Microsoft who started this crap. I am sorry, but an Engineer is someone who holds an Engineering Degree, period! And of course I am talking about an accredited degree. Call yourselves whatever you want, but leave Engineering alone.
Well considering alot of the Web 2.0 applications that are out there, that JS/CSS combo can get pretty convoluted and complex. I've seen some people do some complex stuff with JS/CSS that's used by Google and Yahoo and Amazon. That's why we were talking just about HTMl because I don't think anyone would knock the Web2.0 stuff that's going on which actually involves a bit of know how and the front-end now becomes a development platform as much as the backend.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
HTML you can learn in about 30 minutes. The rest of it takes significantly more investment of time. To me, "knowing HTML" is about as worthy of a title as "knowing how to use a calculator" is.
If you're looking for someone who can create static pages for you, the title should be "Web Designer". And that will net you people with a whole range of skill sets. Ideally be specific about what you want to be made or be specific about all the skills you require.
Obsolete
Write web pages - Web Author / Copy Writer
Write web pages and javascript - Webhack / Webmonkey / Web User Interface Specialist
Write complex back-ends with tens or hundreds of thousands of lines of code in Rails, PHP, Perl, etc. - Software Engineer
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
I mean, if you can handle JS you have no excuse for not learning PHP.
Like learning Java instead.
I thought that the idea was to move away from toy languages to doing something like, you know, actual programming.
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
Where I work, we pick our own job titles... The 2 guys who do such work picked "Aesthetic Programmer" and "Code Monkey" for their business cards.
Design - does comps
Programmer - does code
Production - does HTML, FLASH, etc.
The term you're looking for is "Web Designer" - Someone with an understanding of visual design as well as the knowledge of HTML and CSS required to implement said designs. May not have any programming ability. Probably spends his/her time in Dreamweaver, with forays into Notepad++ or BBEdit.
Design Technologist - Nebulous. Anyone who can use software to create visual designs. May be a print graphic artist, web designer, Flash developer. Need not require programming ability, or even any knowledge HTML or CSS. Probably a big fan of Fireworks and Flash, but could also be a big Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign or Quark user.
Web Developer - Someone who can use a dynamic web technology (PHP, ASP.net, J2EE, ColdFusion, Google Web Toolkit) to create interactive web pages or web applications. Also requires a kowledge of HTML, CSS and possibly JavaScript, as well as at least some programming ability. May spend a lot of time in Eclipse, Visual Studio, or another IDE.
Front-end Developer - Someone who can implement a user interface for a computer system. Would include people who, for example, create GUI interfaces to command line tools. Requires programming ability, but does not necessarily require any knowledge of HTML at all. Spends most of the day in Visual Studio or Eclipse.
HTML/CSS Developer - A Web Designer with pretentions of technical skill. Probably used FrontPage. Once.
Client-side Developer - A Front-end Developer (see above) who exclusively works with client-server architecture. Again, does not necessarily require any knowledge of HTML at all. Spends most of his/her time in an IDE.
UI Engineer - Someone who has at least some background in both CHI and software development; may focus on one or the other extreme. Requires some programming skill. Does not necessarily require any knowledge of HTML. Probably uses several UI modeling tools you've never heard of, and spends a lot of time drawing on whiteboards before settling down into an IDE.
Long gone is the singular Webmaster. His/her job has been broken into these pieces:
System Administrator:
Installs and maintains web servers and associated technology back-end infrastructures like PHP upgrades.
Network Administrator:
Installs and maintains networking infrastructure including firewalls, proxies, network caches.
Information Architect:
Creates informational structures to help put data into understandable and manageable segments. Often creates wireframes for page layout.
Web Designer (Artist):
Creative talent that produces graphical content that fit wireframes or other criteria for use on websites.
Web Editor (Writer):
Creative talent that produces textual content that fits structured segments or other crieria for use on a website.
Usability Expert:
Examines and adjusts wireframes and content to fit best practices for user experience.
Back-End Web Developer:
Programmer responsible for creating functionality that assists the display of content on a website. Often responsible for CMS and/or Database integration through to the site.
Front-End Web Developer: This is what you wanted, hence longer description.
Takes graphic content, usability widgets, back-end functionality, textual content and creates layouts using (X|D)HTML, Javascript, back-end code snippets, CSS, CMS template scripts. These layouts fit into certain strict parameters regarding SEO, size optimization (both image and code), speed of loading, cross browser compatibility, limitations of layout markup and specifications of back-end delivery of data. Lacking any of the above positions (and the one below), this person is often tasked with doing whatever is missing from the classic "Webmaster" position.
Quality Assurance:
Jerks.
Web Producer - edits and creates content with a small amount of image resizing & re-touching. Basic understanding HTML & CSS
Front End Developer - Has a decent understanding of UI design and usability concepts. Great understanding of HTML & CSS + JavaScript.
..on what the website that needs design and maintenance does in the first place? There's no such thing as a generic website, some are just for fun, and may be quite involved and complex, but aren't really designed to rake in cash, so no, it couldn't be self supporting for the web-person most likely, whereas others are designed from the start to be profitable, an e-commerce site for instance.
Just as a casual web surfer, I can see the difference between a well designed and easy to use site or not, and that has to come from someone or a team that has superior skills, and a lot of those folks DO make a living at it, so it is like any other job.
"Wow, all you can do really well is run this CNC machine, is that really enough to make a living? I mean, you can't build a house or run a vineyard, your skills are lacking from my own leetness, so you must be inferior to me"
"Can someone who only understands transmissions really expect to make a living at that, just that one
skill, when cars are so much more than just the transmission"?
What's your skill, and how do you justify your check? Really, what are you saying?
The only reasonable answer is, if you somehow get a check from that skill, and the check cashes. That's the only justification or criteria needed to determine if your skill set is adequate or not.
Someone, however, who knows the specificities of a dozen DB systems, how to integrate them, who knows how to set up LAMP systems, who codes PHP and/or Perl and/or Python, who also knows the specificities of HTML/CSS/Javascript under IE5/6/7/8, Firefox, Opera, Webkit, who knows the bundled systems a la Joomla, CMS, wordpress, in one word, someone who can setup your company's website quickly, is a valuable asset.
I have revised my opinion on webmasters. It is now a full-time job and an IT specialty. I used to think (and I was right in 2000) that I could become as knowledgeable as a webmonkey in a fistful of hours reading about CSS and HTML. Now this is not true anymore. I don't look down anymore on those people who can't code in C and don't even know what assembly code is. As a developer with a normal ego I still think that I could become a decent webwizard in a three months auto-teaching session, but I acknowledge them as peers in the IT profession. After all, when you know already your fair share of PHP and Javascript, learning Java, C and assembly doesn't take three months either.
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
I dunno, what do you call people who write Word documents? Depending on the person and the observer, learning Microsoft Word is much more difficult.
Maybe call HTML folks 'taggers'? After all it is all about tagging, the rest is just text writing.
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Industrious.
Yours In Socialism,
Kilgore Trout
At my workplace, where I work as a "web developer", my main job is to write code (PHP as that is what we use there), and administer the databases (MySQL). We also have "web designers", who's job is to create nice graphics (images, flash animations, etc.) and integrate that into static HTML pages, with the occasionally added JavaScript for nice animations and other effects. The problem with those "web designers" is that, although they might have good artistic skills in the field of graphics, they are just Dreamweaver web monkeys, who throw together some junk HTML with a couple of clicks, copy and paste JavaScript from all over the web for the effects without the slightest understanding of what script does what, what is semantic HTML, what is the difference between HTML and XHTML, what does strict or loose mean in the doctype declarations, and why the doctype is necessary at all. When the "web designers" are finished, I get the result of their work and I need to integrate that into the web application. So, by the time I get those "designs", they are filled with at least two JavaScript libraries (Scriptaculous + Prototype, jQuery, Mootools, etc.) and a good amount of non-library utilizing scripts just for fun. And because I am a little bit zealous about markup correctness, and elegant code, I almost have to redo the whole thing, using just one JavaScript library, rewritten markup, and so on. Basically my job now includes PHP coding, database design and administration, (X)HTML markup writer, user interface designer with the added JavaScript (AJAX), CSS writer. I just recently got the job at this company and I already started to educate the designers about the basics of these modern concepts (for them), but it is painful and slow process as hell. It is just my colleagues who I know and can talk about. So, in some situations, even web monkey is a little bit of an exaggeration when it comes to how would I call them.
I worked with a guy who was THE MAN at "cutting up" as we called it. He had the same title as the rest of the developers, he just didn't write much code. Where it would take me a day or two to do something, he'd have it done in four hours working flawlessly in all the target browsers.
This is what he did all day long, and was very good at it. So I can say that specialization in certain cases makes a lot sense. A guy like this probably isn't the best fit in a company with one or two software products, but for a web consulting company he is a valuable asset.
Who cares how good someone is at this or the other as long as they are turning out quality work and contributing to the team's goals?
... they used to call them, 'The people in the basement that we'd rather not deal with'.
Now, they call them 'Indian contractors'.
Have gnu, will travel.
400 pages? The world just don't work like that any more. You hire a guy to do a template and a stylesheet, and then you hire a programmer to generate all the pages dynamically from a database. You'd never pay someone to handcraft 400 individual html pages.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
HTMLer and CSSer.
Or HTML guy and CSS dude.
If it seems disrespectful, IMO good HTMLers and CSS PPL get the respect they are due by way of tone of voice.
Jag pratar lite svenska.
Web... Spider... get it?
I'm here all week, try the veal, don't forget to tip the waitresses.
Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur (anything said in Latin sounds important)
"Technical Writer"
If you can't do html/css or xml/docbook, then you are an incompetent technical writer.
It depends. Try to make it a little bit clear in the job description.
Web Developper: You will be responsible for implementing new features, updating and maintaining our website. Required skills:HTML/CSS, Javascript, PHP/perl/whatever, MySQL.
or
Secretary?: You will be responsible for publishing content in our website content management system, formatting of the articles may require writing HTML or CSS code. (As does posting a comment on slashdot)
Web pages are seldom all that interactive. Linking one page to the next isn't rocket science.
We're not talking about programming here, we're talking about HTML. Not even Javascript, just HTML. HTML and CSS are simple skills.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
yes, i do agree html/css guys NEED to grow their skill set.
and while where at it why don't they just do the following:
talk to client/gather specs
code PHP
design the db MySQL
write HTML
write CSS
write JS
design the site in photoshop
manage the server (logs, email accounts, backups)
(ummm, fyi a good "html/css guy" with an "eye for design" and some knowledge of php/mysql db stuff is REALLY valuable these days), most "php developer is" just "make things work" vs. "making things work AND look good")
"do HTML"? How do you define that? It's a very simple markup language. It isn't programming.
That said, if you want an effective website, you need someone who can 'do' much more than HTML. I remember the days when someone could spell HTML and get a job paying 6 figures. Until they changed the names of the files "because they didn't make sense to me" and came crying "why are all my links broken"??? BwwaaaHaaaHaa!! (real example - from my time at Qwest IT)
Hire someone who can 'do HTML' and you'll get screwed everytime.
Don't forget themers. Quite new term, my spell check says such word doesn't exist. But with a huge growth of drupal, joomla, typo3 developers, in those communities "themer" is a known term.
And some of those guys don't like to be called anything else but that. And I know some think themer is a copy'n'paster, trust me, at least in a drupal world, themer is more than just design. It's quite a bit of scripting involved.
o_O
just web dude
It all comes back to what the job is about. Update some article in a CMS? need to know h1 to h3 and have notion of what p.highlight { color: blue; } is going to do. Need to do the next fancy ajason enhanced 3D online version of outlook? Then you need a software engineer who knows HTML and much more. ;)
--
Ajason for when your Asynchronous Javascript doesn't care about XML...
HTML isn't interactive, either. To interact you need some form of code capable of producing/displaying dynamic data. Sure, you can make a form, but without submiting it to a program of some sort, it's kind of useless.
...that or unemployed.
Disclaimer: I 'do HTML' for a living and get paid well too.
I've always used 'Web Developer' or 'UI Developer' for a title, but 'UI Engineer' does have a nice ring to it. First off, no one is going to pay anyone to just 'do HTML'. Writing HTML, even well formed XHTML Strict compliant HTML is not that complicated. I wouldn't pay someone to just write HTML. It's the extras that count. CSS expertise, including cross browser incompatibilities and work-arounds, make a 'Web Developer'. Extensive knowledge of Javascript libraries, events, and cross-browser incompatibilities make a 'Web Developer'. Working knowledge of PHP, Perl, C#, Java, and a host of templating engines and content management systems make a 'Web Developer'. My little sister can 'do HTML'. You should see her MySpace page. You hire a 'Web Developer' or 'UI Engineer' when you want to have that professional appearance for your website, properly search engine optimized and 508 accessibility compliant. The website that works in all browsers, degrades nicely for the older browser crowd, and is still cutting edge enough to do all the fancier stuff that's now considered 'Web 2.0'. </rant>
So what do call a people that 'do HTML'? Interns.
Aero
Please stop hurting America -- Jon Stewart
Always used and heard "Web Designers" for what you described.
Translating arbitrary designs from Adobe Illustrator into HTML / CSS is pretty much what got me by for a few years following the dot com bust, and then became a decent job (and no, it's not like I couldn't have been doing anything else: during the boom, I'd done plenty of software development in C, Java, and Perl).
Is that time over? The trend I notice is that there's no shortage of challenges in getting HTML / CSS which displays reasonably well across the proliferating number of active versions of Internet Explorer, standards-ish based browsers which aren't quite all the same, and the proliferating # of mobile devices. I've been out of that loop for about a year and a half and it already seems like some of my knowledge is out of date.
If you add to that the fact that more people are drinking the CSS positioning kool-aid and also sortof discovering actual criteria for good markup, I'd say the days where you can make a living off of it are far from over.
Tweet, tweet.
You're not going to find someone willing to work part time. Professionals don't do that.
Now, you could hire a contractor, but they're going to charge you through the nose if you can't manage the workflow in a way they can predict and plan for.
Why not Author?
We don't call people who use Microsoft Word "Document Developers". My dad didn't call his secretary a "Movable Type Engineer".
People who "Do HTML" - meaning just the front end - are not "developers" or "programmers" - they're authors.
http://www.bistolas.net
I find it interesting that developers often make nice power point presentations... yet.. come up with some of the most horrid web designs ever seen. At best, a developer might crank out a blocky, black & white format following an outline structure. I wonder why this is so? Probably because in one arrogant swoop, you've over-simplified and invalidated what web designers actually do.
No one cares if PowerPoint produces a 10 zillion-byte file generated from one of 10 templates repeatedly seen again and again, because the file is an aid to presentation. People care if a web designer produces a 10 zillion-byte design that looks like it was ripped from another site. Web designers who are worth keeping, earn their keep by 1) creating unique designs, 2) creating optimized images/HTML/CSS (more than drawing a slice and selecting "JPG"), 3) ensuring cross browser compatibility, and 4) fitting input forms and content around the design. #1 means they don't fire up an application, select a template, change a few colors, and pass the work off as their own. #2 means the site downloads fast, renders fast, stretches horizontally or vertically within the design limits, follows a sane slicing structure, and reuses duplicated content where possible. #3 means it's tested and verified on all browsers and versions, which includes an understanding of browser bugs. #4 means the layout is congruent with the behavior and presentation of forms and dynamic text (ex. page reloads work as expected, form logic follows expected behavior, page navigation versus in-page navigation, etc).
None of those issues arise when slapping together a PowerPoint presentation: a fixed format document duplicated from pre-built templates, with no form logic, no user intervention, no concern for usability, virtually no cross platform issues (often displayed from the same laptop it was created on), and limited functional scope.
Camping on quad since 1996.
What do you call people who do Power Point?
There are a lot of posts just like this, so I'll respond to this one.
Web code is simplistic, for sure, but how many hours have to be spent making a page render the same in IE4-8, Safari 2-3, Firefox 2-3, Opera, mobile browsers, etc.
I can code a beautiful page for any one, or maybe two, of those in no time. It's double the work or more to get it to render in all of them accurately. And all of this with solitary HTML/CSS/JS. Now I have be a DBA, I do program in C/Perl/Java/PHP, yet I have respect for the need to actually work knowledgably in HTML/CSS. It's not the code that's tough, it's how different the definitions of that simple code are across the ecosystem.
Was that just a clever way for you to get twice the carma?
+1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
I don't like "Producer" as it can mean the money-person (a la Hollywood producers), but the idea is in the right place. At my shop--an inside Web team at a nonprofit--we have the following roles:
- Interactive Designer--someone who has a 4-year degree (or more) in art or graphic design. "Designer" should only apply to people who actually know how to design! We're lucky in that our designer also knows front-end UI development including HTML, Flash, and some javascript.
- Web Content--information architecture with some writing and editing.
- Web Development--back-end coding and server management, some more complicated front-end UI scripting.
- New Media--runs the blog and drives social media engagement, including video.
- Web Production--builds Web pages day to day. Also provides basic CMS training and support to staff.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Web Developer seems to be the best fit. Unless you actually know some principles of user interface design or development, don't put 'UI' in your title. Clint-Side Developer would be good if the person never touches anything like PHP/ASP, etc., and if they do, then 'Front-End Developer' would fit (front-end describes more than the client-side).
Errata:
"Carma"
Should be:
"Karma"
+1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
Serf, Peon, Help Desk Assistant...
or for those with advanced skills: Commander of Visual Notepad.
After all, that's the time-honoured thing to do to monkeys on the Internet ... and it's safer than spanking the monkey while in the office.
My wife's a print Graphic Designer. When she's looking for jobs, at least half of the "Graphic Designer" positions require HTML, and then I get to hear the tirade of yelling.
Woman.
You should not define your job by the tool you are using to do it. The fact that you use HTML is meaningless; you are a web front end designer who has experience using HTML, and whose job requires him to use HTML.
People who use telescopes are not "telescopists", we call them "astronomers" because of what they are doing with their tool, not the fact that they are using that tool. You are designing the look of web pages, and happen to be using HTML to do it.
A list apart did a 2008 survey under webdevelopers, which has a list of function names, etc.:
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/findingsfromthewebdesignsurvey2008
New things are always on the horizon
Similar to a Subway sandwich artist?
EOM
***Foucault is watching you..***
Html'r Feller? "this is of course a play on FELLOW."
Inane Comments are Generously Disregarded
We call them Webpage Support Specialists and they work for the Webmaster.
Outside of the small intersection of people who have genuine artistic/design talent and genuine coding abilities, "web designer" is a pretty unfortunate misnomer... almost as unfortunate as the idea that Dreamweaver is a design tool. Web design is really several skillsets that are rarely found in the same person. But it leads people who don't know the inside of either web development or graphic design particularly well to expect both from people who are generally much stronger with one than the other.
Tweet, tweet.
If I need to crank out 400 HTML pages, I'll hire an HTML jockey.
If I need to crank out 400 HTML pages, I'll write a script.
call him my code bitch.
I don't call them, it's usually the other way around, when they accept a project and suddenly they figure out that it's way beyond their abilities and they need someone to implement all that functionality they promised but have no idea how to do it.
Go hug some trees.
I do html/css as a good bulk of my job. I call myself a code monkey... my superiors occasionally seem slightly offended that I use the term. Seems pretty descriptive to me. + monkeys rock
In the early 2000s, my business-card actually said "Webmonkey". :)
The PE test is heavily oriented toward civil engineering. It doesn't really apply to EE, much less to software engineers. EEs've been fighting that PE stereotype for decades. Lay off already.
Even within CE, there's a lot of specialties like water distribution where many people don't even bother with a PE, it being so unrelated to the computing-heavy work they do.
Jan the Secretary.
Seriously, companies hire people *just* to do this stuff?
"linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
Around here, we usually call them HTMLers.
Lots of people use this term here (I'm in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil).
For example, I wrote a free Gimp script for web design that helps create (what I call) a website window. I doubt it has an official name.
I would use these terms for those who create a website:
Front-End Web Developer (HTML/JavaScript)
Back-End Web Developer (server-side scripts)
Web Designer (graphics)
If it makes you feel any better, the job titles for "people who make computers do useful things" are virtually useless as well. Over my (long) career I've found that you usually can't tell what someone does (or is capable of) by looking at their job title even if you're familiar with the title structure of the company. For places you're not familiar with, it's totally hopeless.
As far as I can tell, job titles primarily exist to give HR the impression they understand what's going on. Beyond that, I mostly favor general titles ("Member of the Technical Staff") or whimsical ones ("Data Mortician"), and I think we should get to choose our own.
"Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
n/t
In all seriousness, any process that is so well understood with an unchanging problem domain should be shoved overseas to keep the outsource companies busy and a high turnover of limited skilled coders believing that all software development is mind-numbingly dull:) __PLEASE__ keep doing this!!! That means when the hot-shot business idiot realizes he missed the call, that the problem domain isn't that easy he'll either get the axe or quit and do the same stupid thing somewhere else. Meanwhile, the time and distance, cultural communication problems and the BLATANT conflict of interest between customer and outsource company (e.g. "Oh yes! we will do that feature right away!" - wow.. that's a horrible idea:) these guys will pay us to re-write it because they're idiots! Whoo-hoo!) will make the solution that's no longer working easy to throw away and re-start with a minimum 50-50 local/offshore team. More job opportunities for people who stick around because outsource partners can't be trusted.
If the project can be speced and doesn't fail and doesn't need to change, great! That means it was a crap problem domain with nothing interesting to work through or solve - let the offshore company developers' eyes bleed with stupid feature changes for the next n years. If it does, it's job security for those of us who have stuck through this outsource stupidity (which is only a short-sighted cost savings move - the IT world equivalent of sinking all your money into credit default swaps).
For the past decade, 100% "cheap" outsourcing has gotten more and more expensive and has proved to be a bad idea for fast moving, competitive, REVENUE GENERATING projects. Failures have lead people to keep some level of local skills to address communication and quality aspects that are vital to success. But here's the fun part: how do you become a competent Senior Software Engineer when increasingly all the entry level positions are available in India and China? You don't:) That means I become a rare commodity as corporate America digs it's own human resource grave.
Keep digging corporate America... keep digging...
*** Sigs are a stupid waste of bandwidth.
Granted the code monkey is the bottom of the barrel and frequently reminded such, but who else is going to clean the viruses off of work stations, create a few new tables for and add a new feature that was due Friday, write the best practices guides, check the backups, punch out cable, fix someone's e-mail, answer the phones, clean up messey html/css/javascript sent in from the guy who wants his job and patch the roof during a tornado when everyone else is out on an extended weekend?
My job title is Web Designer which is what I prefer to be called. My duties include mocking up the website, converting that design to html+css+javascript and a few other duties.
We have a guy who writes most of our back-end code who prefers to be called a web developer. His job duties usually involve asp.net, sql and some minor html knowledge.
"During My Service In The United States Congress, I Took The Initiative In Creating The Internet." -Al Gore
Web developer is my favourite name for this type of activity, which I distinguish from web designer which is the guy/gal that tells the web developer how the page is supposed to look.
So the designer makes the look, the developer produces the code (a relation akin to architect contractor)
AC
I *did* a lot of HTML in the nineties, man. Wow, the colors!
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
I for one welcome the dogma of our recursive commenting Karmic overlords.
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
You can find free web designs at OpenDesigns.org. If you need a static web page using HTML/CSS, you can do a contract with one of those developers. You don't need a full-time HTML/CSS developer for this. On the other hand if you have are planning a large website, you will need more techniques than HTML/CSS. I.e. generate web pages using something like Webgen or a full blown web server using Apache, MySQL, Ruby/PHP/other, memcached, ...
Due to inflation of titles, someone who used to 'do HTML' is now called a Client Layer Interface Transformist Of Resource Integration Service.
Web Developer. Web development does not mean the person has to be proficient in HTML, CSS, javascript, any of the .NET framework, perl, PHP, etc. You just have to be someone who uses one or more of these tools (and others not listed) to build a webpage. Some people use a combination of all of all of these. Some people are really good at HTML and Javascript or HTML and PHP. Some are only really good at .NET languages and have some skills in javascript or HTML in order to get by when needed. In general, anyone who builds web pages regardless of how complicated, is a web developer.
the titles will be a kludge as well.
HTML, CSS, Javascript and related skills like PHP are _skills_, not professions. If you must list a title, then list a general title and specify some of the requisite skills, qualifications and responsibilities in the body of the posting.
If you're looking for somebody who is good at designing web user interfaces, then say that. Designing web UIs is a skill separate from implementing them, though a good designer will also be a decent implementer. If you're looking for a web monkey, then ask HR how to say that nicely, and list HTML, etc as required skills.
(Web User Interface Programmer comes to mind as a polite way of saying "web monkey".)
I used to work with this guy...he was a low-level temp, but constantly advertised that he was really an "HTML Programmer." He'd make these little "clicking" motions with his fingers when he said it, as if he was typing. Everyone got a good laugh, at his expense.
vim users.
HTML should be lovingly hand crafted. That's whether it is in a template or generated by a program or script.
At a previous job, we had a team of people - called slicers - that received .psd files from the graphic designers and cut them into html for the programmers to integrate into a database driven backend. It was basically an assembly line for cheap websites.
Making stupid comments so you don't have to.
Most ppt presentations I see are pretty crappy, so they must be harder to make than you assume.
what about "Web Engineering" ?
A lot of you are completely missing the value of someone who is an expert with HTML and CSS.
I call these people "Front-end developers" and their skill set can range from from HTML and CSS, to Javascript expertise and the ability to integrate their work into the system themselves. Cross browser compatibility and clean, extensible, maintainable work is an extremely valuable skill set.
And a skillset that many regular 'ole web developers just don't have. My previous company had no clue of the value of a good front-end developer and just figured they could do it all themselves. They then had, literally, 50% of their bug database filled with front-end related issues. Just because you can write awesome algorithms, and a content management system from scratch doesn't mean you can also "do" HTML, CSS and Javascript.
For my current project, I am specifically looking for a front-end developer. We have plenty of people to code, and a good design. But if I have to spend anymore time fixing IE bugs and trying to make the "perfect" WYSIWYG editor I'm going to start pulling my hair out. The front-end developer I am looking for would not be treated any differently from the rest of my team. They are a developer who focuses on front-end issues.
A front-end developer is not a designer. A "Web designer" is a designer who specializes in web as a medium. Some designers are capable enough to produce very good HTML, CSS and Javascript... most, however, should try to not leave their primary skillset because they suck balls as developers. Quite frankly, the personality type that would make one a good designer simultaneously makes them really shitty developers.
Back when I did that sort of thing, I sold myself as "Software Engineer: Web Specialist," which I thought nicely encapsulated the skill set to create and code productive websites, if not particularly beautiful ones.
Was "Blowhard" already taken?
I thought we were going for a car analogy!
My UID is prime... is yours?
Seriously, if "doing HTML" is the only skill someone has to offer, they do not command enough to warrant a title other than slapping the word "Assistant" ahead of the title of their direct supervisor. Since even that may be vastly overstating the truth, simply "Administrative Assistant" with "HTML skills" in the job description has more than sufficed for the better part of the last decade.
What's the point of getting more specific than that when there is in fact nothing more to specify?
Web Artists
Web Monkeys (Like Code Monkeys for amateur computer programmers)
Web Markup Coder
Creative Content Designer
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
In 1996, I applied for a job opening at a local newspaper. The job? Web Press Specialist. Requirement (singular): Web press layout experience. I went to my interview dressed in a suit, and met a burly man in the lobby who was dressed in jeans and had ink stains on his arms up to his elbows. We both did a double take, then he realized I thought it was a World Wide Web position (which the company didn't have plans for yet). He explained that a Web Press is what presses the ink onto newspapers. I'm glad that he knew what the web was back then. It means he did (or will) shift careers gracefully.
I enjoy the title of "web MASTER" it fits my plethora of web skills nicely into one small package, kind of like pkzip back in the day...
I was a HTML code monkey in high school and college. My official job title was Web Production Artist at my main job. When I did some code monkey contracting on the side I was simply called a HTML Developer.
Erratum:
"Errata:"
Should be:
"Erratum:"
html F*ckers, wocka wocka
I'll be here all night folks
Them HTML-Doers
Dewd, ur carma jst run ovr mai dawgma.
A Web Developer is someone with either backend programming skills or some mad Javascript/AJAX skills.
Someone who is mostly html/css and a tad of JS and graphic design is a Web Designer.
A graphic/artist is the Graphic Designer.
A Web Master controls the content, usually through some kind of CMS or by contacting the web development team.
You are not a programmer unless you are writing code and/or dealing with dynamic functionality. If all you are doing is HTML/CSS layouts, slicing images, etc. then it is design, not programming.
Pulling data from a database into a web page? Programming.
Formatting the grid control in the web page, without touching whatever makes it tick? Design.
Pedro
----
The Insomniac Coder
For 400 pages in a one-off design I'd look into skipping the database and using whatever file-based templating and includes system the web server stack provides for.
For example this seems like a good place for Tiles, or even basic JSP Includes. Template JSPs, check. Content JSPs, check, Tiles definitions to put them together, check. Bam, done. Very maintainable as well for someone down the line, even if it isn't whambam buzzword compliant. Also very quick as the JSPs compile into Java bytecode that is pretty much generating a String to send to the client.
As soon as you need 4000 pages or some means for a non-skilled person to edit/add things, you can consider a database driven templating system, and indeed it might only add a couple of days onto the implementation time (or tweaking of existing system time), but if it isn't a need for the client, then you can bid lower than someone else who will use that.
What really matters, and nobody has mentioned it yet, is getting the damn job done to specification.
Assuming that it includes sound knowledge of Javascript, which is a full-fledged programming language, you can't just call them "markup writers". Web frontends without any scripting are hard to imagine in the days of Ajax, JSON, behavioral classes and the like. OTOH you can't assume that they know anything about designing (the aesthetic and creative side), just about implementing a design.
Now a webcoder could also be someone who writes serverside code, so for disambiguation maybe web frontend coders.
...Presentation Layer Developer
But the company I work DOES pay the top salaries and we get high quality people for it. That is why I know I prefer a specialist over a jack of all trades. They might be more expensive but their skills pay for themselves.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
While there are many folks that can toss some HTML together, there are very few that have gone through the source code for, at the very least, Gecko, and understand how the browser goes about the rendering process and how to optimize that.
It's not just about the design and making the functionality work. When the requirements call for tens of thousands of elements in several MB per page, you need to bring in a specialist who can optimize the HTML and CSS to render as quickly as possible.
I've longed for a term for that position for a while. Of course, I do a lot more like JavaScript, Java, JSP, Photoshop, Flash, etc, but that's essentially what I was hired for. As for what my job title initially was (or still is, as I was called this by the manager just a few days ago): 'HTML Guy'.
http://alistapart.com/articles/findingsfromthewebdesignsurvey2008
A List Apart does an annual survey of workers in this field. Check it out. There's stats on title, salary, gender... all kinds of breakdowns.
Myself, I'd be classified as a Web Developer but my title is Senior Technologist because I do more than web work.
If you roll in some system administration, then Webmaster would be the common title. Front-end developer is good if you want to get into nitty gritty details. When I used to work for a dot-com I was in the "Front-End Platform" group as a Web Developer, though this involved classic ASP and ASP.Net 1.0/1.1 back in the day. Web developer works if there some server-side scripting or more than a little Javascript or other code in the client side content. Given what you describe, UI Designer or Engineer seems to be a logical choice.
I mean, if you can handle JS you have no excuse for not learning PHP.
My excuse is that Javascript done right can be quite a beautiful and powerful language, whereas Personal Home Page can never be more than a big pain in the ass. If you do serverside use a real language--maybe even Javascript.
Professional Web Integration and Product Layout Designer
Ryan
The people I've known that do html, css, and graphics were called a Web Designer.
Developer implies your putting functionality in place.
Designer implies making is pretty, and at least some basic UI design.
A lot of web developers do both but most are only good at one or the other.
Doesn't HTML mean "How To Mow the Lawn"?
- I live the greatest adventure anyone could possibly desire. - Tosk the Hunted
I mean, really, html as a 'skill'?
Should that be "erratum"? ;^)
HTMLers.
Moving along...
Or just HTML-F*ckers.
...
I am a "Front-End Web Developer", and have been professionally for 9 years. I started out as specializing in HTML, CSS and JavaScript, and earned my keep by able to code within various server-side language platforms (Java, ASP/C#, PHP, Classic ASP, etc.) Though I have expert Photoshop skills, I am *not* a designer, and therefore correct people who try to describe me as one; however, I *do* specialize in user interface design, and know the best way to arrange a page to maximize intuitive user navigation and company goals. I bridge the divide between the graphic designers and server-side coders by filling in the gaps in both of their knowledge; I speak both of their languages, and can work to make the site as programatically sound and visually successful as possible. Front-End Web Developer.
I think the some of those comments here are from people who may have a skewed understanding of 'today's' HTML/XHTML and CSS. Coding HTML is fairly easy. Building a page that is semantic, forward thinking and is built with graceful degradation in mind takes a little more skill. To me, there is a clear separation of Design and Development. Working with web standards and understanding how to make pages that are performance driven, accessible, and semantic is the real skill set. Knowing the language is not enough. Lots of people in this country can speak English. Few can deliver great speeches.
Markup wonk?
quoted from the write-up is part of the problem:
"So, how do you describe people who 'do HTML' (and CSS and maybe a bit of JavaScript and graphics manipulation)?"
You started asking about HTML, then in added a quick random mix in at the end....that's part of the problem. every one who talks about web-work does the same thing....eveyone has thier own "add-ons" and no has the same ones. Applies to both pople doing the work and people trying to define the role.
What do you call someone who does [b]UBB[/b]?
HTML and CSS are no more difficult nor deliberately accessible than what used to be called "word processing", but is now called "writing a letter".
Back in my day, typing and/or word processing were manditory high school courses. Do they even teach them anymore?
War as we knew it was obsolete
Nothing could beat complete denial
- Emily Haines
About ten years ago I worked for a few companies where I built Web sites for a number of very large companies. If you use online banking in the U.S. or read major U.S. newspapers online, you've probably loaded my code at some point.
Back then we faced a problem that got a lot more attention than it does today: efficiency. Then, as now, any idiot could use a WYSIWYG editor and create a page that looked "good enough." Some people would take that code, modify it (badly) and then propagate it through a template system and no one cared what the code looked like as long as the page seemed to render ok on the browser in front of them.
Back then, computers were slower (I was stoked I got a workstation with a 400mhz CPU!), rendering engines were slower (Netscape used to choke on nested tables, a bug Microsoft exploited on some of its content sites for purposes I'll leave to your imagination), and internet connections were much slower (the speed demons were using 56k modems... and they would have given anything to get 56kbps out of them). It was easy to make the case that code had to download quickly and it had to render quickly because the boss could see the result on his home computer.
Now everyone in the industry presumably has DSL or a cable modem and a computer with a CPU that runs at at least 2Ghz. I've long since left the industry, but my employer uses several internal Web applications over its slow, high-latency network. It just spent a few million dollars upgrading all our computers so they could run these Web apps, but saw no real improvement. I got fed up with waiting 5 minutes for tasks that should take 10 seconds, so I looked at the source and was horrified by what I saw. In many apps, the coder didn't understand the concept of style sheet classes and repeated the same 100-character STYLE attribute string in 50 different places. In one app, every element of every page is absolutely positioned with stylesheets... as if the coder figured it was easier to have the server dynamically figure out the screen coordinates of the elements in a table than to learn how HTML tables work (and as a result, that server grinds to a halt several times a week when we all access it). In another, the server renders the same 300-page PDF on the fly for 400 clients and then sends it over our overtaxed network as a 300MB file when 1MB of HTML could have achieved the same result, with each of the client computers doing the rendering (the server crashes frequently, resulting in very few of us actually getting the data on time).
Based on the comments I see in this forum (yes, I know it's Slashdot... I've been reading since the site was a year old), it's easy to see why this has happened. The value of good HTML has been lost. People are so caught up in the everything that is attached to the HTML (graphic design, php, servlets, etc) they've forgotten that HTML is equally important because as the fiber that connects those things it is a single point of failure. It doesn't matter how good your graphic design or your back-end code is if the end user can't see it because your HTML sucks. And there's a lot of really sucky HTML out there being published by some big companies.
Maybe I'm just a purist, and I'm like the guy who stands in his driveway cleaning the engine of his car while everyone laughs. For some applications, poor HTML isn't a big deal. But it still has its place. If there's a guy out there actually trying to find people who "Do HTML" because he wants an expert, I'd say he's the only one in the room who "gets it."
In answer to the original question, I'd say "HTML Expert" is the title you're fishing for. I've variously been called a Web Developer or Web Design Engineer. And I've threatened to quit companies that called me "the Webmaster," so don't use that one. I'm keeping this anonymous to protect my former employers from any fallout from my comments and I am not looking for a job, but if you have any questions I set up a throw-away email account so you'll know I'm the one responding: htmlexpert.slashdot@gmail.com.
Depending on the context, you might call that person an electrician, or an auto mechanic, or a plumber, or a computer technician, or a housewife trying to change a battery.
HTML is a tool. A job title/description tends to be more about what you are expected to accomplish.
This can be confusing, because there is such a thing as a "C++ developer." Well, yeah, but what you really are is an application developer who uses C++. Your job is to develop applications. It just so happens that C++ is the primary (maybe even only) tool you need to accomplish that job, so that's what you get called.
I think the reason this particular skill has not acquired a standard job title is that HTML, by itself, is not really a tool you can use to accomplish a whole lot. To accomplish a complete task, you will need to use it in conjunction with graphic design tools, if you're designing an interface, or with database tools if you are designing an app, or something else.
So I'd say it depends on what you are expecting them to use HTML to accomplish, and what other skills they will need in order to accomplish that task.
As for whether HTML is a complete skill set -- well, imagine applying for a job as a plumber and saying, "well, I can't use a wrench, but I can use a screwdriver..."
My site: Free Nature Pictures
Webero :)
here ends what some neis
An Intern
I actually interviewed a guy a while back for Yahoo! who only knew HTML and CSS. I call this person "almost worthless." Without any scripting knowledge (JavaScript, PHP/Python/Ruby), there really wasn't a position for this person anywhere in the company (and that says a lot for such a big web company).
The unfortunate thing is that there really is no perfect term for all the various kinds of web developers (a good default term). I call myself Frontend Engineer, but that really means nothing. This term particularly annoys my British co-workers because in England "engineer" means something very specific (similar to "doctor" in the states).
So a safe bet is to call anyone who develops for the web a "web developer" but then make damn sure to test their skills before ever considering hiring them.
We had a guy who 'did html', although css as well.
He knew exacly how to make things render identical for any browser.
We still mis him very much.
With the advent of the WYSIWYG, most any fartknocker suddenly started calling himself/herself a "web developer". For those of us, including myself, that actually know how to code from scratch, for years fought against being called a web developer because I didn't want to be lumped into that group. As the web changed and I started doing more database and online application work, I opted for the "web applications developer" moniker. I found that it gave a better explanation about what I did and kept me from being lumped into the group of folks that wouldn't know how to code "hello world" unless they used a WYSI.
As a freelance programmer I still find myself cleaning up the crap sites built by those assh*les.
Carpe Scrotum - The only way to deal with your competition.
Surprised that no one has yet mentioned the shift to web-based CMS. Every web designer I know is learning or already developing sites in Joomla! (The more technically ambitious are checking out Drupal.) This is a recent switch, within the past six months. My guess is that even for small business "brochureware" websites, this movement will rapidly render the old HTML/CSS skillset obsolete.
High School Students.
I keep tabs on district 622 (Here in MN) and 916. The high school students are just as good now at good ol' fashion HTML coding (including now Javascript and PHP) then some of these 4 year career coders now.
Web coding is quickly become base line, just like knowing Word and Excel. That is why it's getting harder to define some job roles because the skills are quickly becoming a default set of technical skills.
Hell my 9 year old nephew is already coding in BASIC in grade school. I can only imagine where these students will be by the time they get to highschool. Programming is becoming as basic as grammar in school.
I started with Logo, BASIC, and courtesy of Computer User writing assembly via DEBUG. (Remember all those cool type blah blah blah.txt > debug.com to get neat tools?)
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
And lo, so did neokushan receive two 5: Funny moderations.
Screw the rules, I have green hair!
Why are you saying QA, jerks? Do you want your Web sites to be incompatible, not working, etc.?
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
There will be trouble if their dogma gets run over by their karma!
A web designer builds the graphic part of the interface; in this case, exactly what you've said. Web UI Designer would be another choice. This also implies they're designing the interface, instead of simply implementing preexisting interface standards. A web developer writes code to make the interface interactive; most web developers would be fairly insulted by the phrase "oh, you do HTML?"
I don't know what the right term would be. It looks like I'll be inheriting managing my company's site. In looking through the documentation, it should be fairly easy for me because I'm familiar with all of it. But this stuff had been originally handed to a marketing guy who didn't know anything about web stuff. I mean yeah, we joke about the conceited pricks who were glorified web monkeys making $70k for being able to write a hyperlink but there's actually a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes that would be lost on non-techs.
The biggest mistake I see companies make is putting people in charge of things they should have no business going near. It's an obvious mistake to put a computer guy like me in charge of a sales department, I wouldn't know schmoozing from wingtips. If that's so obvious, why isn't it obvious putting a soft skills sales and marketing type in charge of a web project is a bad idea? And I'm not talking about being an executive and delegating the technical work, I mean he's chief cook and bottle washer on the project. This isn't a matter of copping egos and attitudes, it's just recognizing proper fits for certain job functions!
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
Stuck in the 90's = webmaster
Considering the pay grade in Dallas for those skills, typist might still be a stretch.
Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
I had to think about this, DHTML... How about Dynamic Front End Developer for Web Based Applications ?
Bullshit. Just because HTML isn't a turing-complete language doesn't mean it isn't a language, and doesn't mean that it isn't an encoding of information.
Especially when you add in the complexities of modern CSS.
And good "secretaries" can write complicated Excel spreadsheets, do batch processing in word, do queries in Access. So yes, a sufficiently skilled secretary is a developer too.
hypertextuals
Interns!
The places I've worked at divide the job into "Web Designer" and "Web Developer". The Designer decides the look and feel, and may do little or no actual coding. The Developer knows the code, but may not be up on ergonomics and usability. For simple designs, or if the designer is particularly sharp, the two roles could be the same person. But I've seen some pretty bad websites created by designers who were insufficient in coding, and developers who couldn't understand that you don't use a mauve font on a salmon background.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
That, or if you're partnered closely with a designer.
I worked for a web company, and we did use a designer. We'd give them a rough idea of what we wanted, they'd send us back HTML and CSS, and we'd just have to replace Lorem Ipsum with template markup, then go play with backend logic.
The company we hired was basically one guy who was 100% artistic, and one guy who turned it into HTML/CSS and appropriate images.
Eventually, we started doing the design in-house, mostly because we decided that we could do it simpler and better than a web designer -- mostly because we wanted something absurdly minimalist. But it did take a lot of time, even with that "minimalist" route.
As a developer, what was probably the most frustrating was either having to design things myself (and having them look ugly), or being given a gigantic photoshop file and having to slice out the parts that should be images, measure pixel distances between everything, and deal with all the warts of CSS in Internet Explorer. But, it was better than having to deal with something DreamWeaver (or worse, MS Word or Adobe GoLive) crapped out.
So yes, there is definitely a job in it, and it's a job I don't want to do.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
If you are getting hired by what you call yourself, you are either really lucky for getting more than you deserve, or really stupid for working at a place that doesn't know what they're doing.
Pick whatever name you want. Just make sure you have a fancy portfolio you can back before you enter that interview room.
The name of the role would depend upon the application to which you apply your HTML. Some people use HTML to make pretty pages (web designers, web artists) whereas others are cleanly displaying useful data (information architects) or help with device-independent data access (iPod sitesmiths). Still others like to write most of the app on the client-side by interweaving HTML with jQuery JavaScript and suchlike (web developers). Etc...
Zen tips: Pay attention. Don't take it personally. Believe nothing.
leet haxxor D0od
Was I right or was I right?
Seems to me that part of the problem with Web UIs these days is that so much of the interface functionality is still being made "interactive" using JavaScript. The JavaScript serves no other purpose than to load and/or render various UI elements. Therefore, a front-end Web designer is often expected to use both tools to achieve the desired result. And yet programming JavaScript -- which I believe to be a fully valid use of the verb -- and really knowing what you're doing is a totally different skill than writing HTML. In an ideal world you'd have JavaScript experts working side-by-side with HTML/CSS experts, and presumably both of them would have some rudimentary understanding of graphic design -- but who can afford that? So what most people are looking for is the "ideal" Web designer, who knows both skills. It's an unlikely scenario at best, so it's no surprise that so many Web designers seem to have questionable skills and/or practices.
Breakfast served all day!
Bored
Grab a good template POD that can invoke PERL functions so you have a server side pages in the form of a tool kit and write an DBI inerface. and Poof 95% of your applications are your web page, no more quoting your web pages in your programs. Better then PHP since its PERL. Wrighting Rails is also not a hard thing.
There are still plenty of corporate websites for even large multi bilion $$ companies that are not database driven. Sometimes, it just doesn't need a database. 400 pages clearly is too many... but I've seen sites developed with 40 static HTML pages. Maintenance is a pain, but it's more expedient to hire an HTML editor than to hire the staff to install, configure and maintain even a simple/FOSS CMS.
***Foucault is watching you..***
I've worked most of my career with PowerPoint types -- people who are actually creating the things because they're the MBAs presenting the concepts.
99% of them don't know how to use Powerpoint beyond dragging squares and changing colors. Styles, templates, master slides, etc are foreign concepts to them.
Often times, these are folks who got MBAs after spending years creating static HTML pages. They did it using FrontPage.
Becoming a competent HTML editor is not difficult, but it still is a skillset that not everyone has.
***Foucault is watching you..***
People who "do PHP"? Well, we can be measured by the size of our PHPnesses.
Erratum:
"Errata"
Should be:
"Erratum"
I propose hypertext structural designer. They are just creating the structure after all.
We try to promote cross-functional teams though, so we don't have someone who does "just HTML". They do CSS, javascript, java, write tests, some xquery, xpath, etc...
and a few years away from being replaced by machines.
They hold the sh1t of others (designers, back-end developers, etc) toghether.
Wouldn't you love for there to be some sort of repercussions for bad programming?
Oh but there is: you get your name made (in)famous on thedailywtf.com
The boss of a webmaster is a weblord!
Seriously I had one in Hollands largest telco!
Dennis Onstenk
Expendable
"Strangers have the best candy" -Me
...if he's really fat.
Now wash your hands.
this thread really shows how a majority of people commenting on slashdot are totally out of touch. An HTML/CSS/JS developer is way more employable than some perl scripter. it's not he most prestigious position but if you work somewhere that has monkeys writing html with dreamweaver, then you work for some hack, suburban, strip-mall company making small beans projects for small beans clients. You probably also charge by the page or something.
OK. That's too harsh. But true if that is all you do. I would regard HTML coding as a minor but essential tool in the skillset of various people (including all developers).
I mean. Should I say: I do C, I do C++, I do python, I do Java, I do UML etc ... bit lame to just pick one out. But if I only did one I'd be worried.
Bitter and proud of it.
I see a lot of trolls, or out-of-touch people here. There is definitely a place for skilled professionals who concentrate on producing excellent markup and CSS, preferably with strong skills in a modern JavaScript framework like jQuery or MooTools and enough Photoshop/GIMP skills to cut up and make minor modifications.
In my experience these people are call Front End Developers.
Many companies don't have this role because they're not big enough to need it, or because they don't understand it's value.
Sure, an intern with Dreamweaver can make a web page but unless they are unusually talented they cannot produce the interface for a quality web-based application. Does an intern know how to make sure the CMS template they're coding will deal with different amounts of content, varying text sizes, nested lists, multiple floated images, or other things the content producers will want to put in there? Does your nephew know about W3C accessibility guidelines, the font licensing issues involved with implementing sIFR, or how to ensure that essential user interactions are still functional without JS or in older browsers?
Just because someone can do job doesn't mean they should. My dad is a building contractor. He can lay bricks, but he doesn't because he can hire someone else who does it better and faster. If there's room in your project's budget to hire specialists, do it. Front End Developer, Business Analyst, Information Architect, DBA -- start bringing them in as you can afford it and the quality of your output will surely improve.
Be careful. People in masks cannot be trusted.
... weavers. Probably not the fanciest title to put in a job ad but I think it catches the work they do rather nicely.
You don't think enough... therefore you better not be!
You call them "n00bs"
Web bitch
-ProgrammerBob
So, how do you describe people who 'do HTML' (and CSS and maybe a bit of JavaScript and graphics manipulation)?
Some job titles I've seen include: Design Technologist, Web Developer, Front-end Developer, HTML/CSS Developer, Client-side Developer and UI Engineer.
Do you have any favourite job titles for this role?"
Honestly, most of the real programmers I know refer to those that 'do HTML' as 'Loser' or 'Wannabe'. ... but I understand.
I'm not going to say I agree with them
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
Donnez-moi un effing break. Technologist? Yeah right. Let's call a spade a spade here. Unless the person is doing something impressive under the hood like programming cloud computing (whatever that means) they're web designers.
I vote we call them "Choppers"... they chop up the .psd files and put them back together to make a site... plus that's a really cool job title. "Choppers" are becoming more rare, and I bet more high schoolers would learn HTML and CSS if they could be called "Choppers" and not designers (which isn't even what they do).
Speaking of which... every CS major should have a semester of CSS and a semester of HTML. Unless you're doing game design, learning C or C++ is kind of useless-- especially in web programming. "Choppers" are so in demand because so many programmers have no clue when it comes to the look and feel of a site.
Nice try. ;)
Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
Yes, ASP.NET is much better.
alistapart.com has a yearly survey that targets individuals in fields related to web design and publishing.
http://aneventapart.com/alasurvey2008/#jt
Having done it for a while, I've held titles such as: Web Developer, Developer, HTML/CSS Developer, Slicer, etc. Really, any one is reasonable so long as it reflects the individual's role and the spirit of the position. You can call me "shithead who doesn't get things done on time... ever", IF you are paying me generously. Otherwise, I'm cool with Lead Developer.
Wow - never before have I seen this community turn on it's own so quickly and with such contempt.
It's a despicable attitude I've sadly experienced most of my professional life - because yes, we who code HTML, CSS and Javascript ARE professionals. I do not design. I do not use dreamweaver or frontpage to generate code for me, I hand code with a text editor. I've been in full time well paid employment in this career since 1997, and I'm sick of Engineers vowing that, although we're in the engineering department, we are not in fact worthy of the title or anything approaching it. Lumping us in with the User Interface Design people is an insult to both parties: we code and have an analytical mindset, they design and have an artistic mindset. Some people try to do both jobs at once, rarely with excellence in both fields.
I'm sure many of you started off doing a little HTML markup, got bored and moved on, but that doesn't mean it should be beneath your contempt - frankly most engineers I've worked with do pretty piss-poor HTML/CSS/Javascript with no regards for standards, semantic markup, cross-browser compatibility, accessibility, gracefully degradation... nor do they see the value when you try and explain, as it's "just html".
Consider this for a moment. Most programmers, engineers, what have you, only have to code at any one time on any one platform, most often on a server they have built themselves. Those who do HTML/CSS/Javascript have no such luxury, the platform is completely out of our control and yet we must make our code run on anything.
At the very, very least our code has to run on OSX Safari, OSX Opera, OSX Firefox, Windows XP IE6, Windows XP IE7, Windows XP IE8, Windows XP Opera, Windows XP Firefox, Windows XP Chrome, Windows Vista IE7, Windows Vista IE8, Windows Vista Opera, Windows Vista Firefox, Windows Vista Chrome... that's 14 platforms, totally ignoring many Windows platforms, Linux, the upcoming Windows 7, all mobile devices, and the many blind readers on all platforms for the vision impaired who rely on our professional attitude to allow them to access the internet at all.
This aside we also have to ensure our code is as small as possible - dialup and slow satellite connections is a reality for a large amount of the browsing population (rural Australia for instance), and they rely on us not to bloat our code by using Dreamweaver and other web-for-idiots programs.
If a new browser came out tomorrow unannounced and captured the popular imagination if only briefly, we have to support that too (hello Chrome, no-one told us you were coming). We are totally at the mercy of the whims of those who build browsers (we stick to standards, but will they?) and the general public who choose which browser to use (hello all you IE6 users). So don't sneer at me, my job is hard, my job is stimulating, my job is rewarding and most of all my job is necessary.
The slashdot communities abuse aside, my job title has varied between Web Developer and Front-End Engineer, and admittedly there is some trouble formulating a 100% accurate title for the job I do - that's because the job is complex and wide-ranging, often encompassing QA and SEO as well.
Personally I prefer Front-End Engineer. Sure you can pick it to death and prove me wrong, but there are very few job titles that are immune from such obsessive scrutiny. Funny how it's always the HTML/CSS/Javascript crowd who come up for such harsh analysis.
That's right, we'll call you.
POKE 36879,8
making ignorant comments. i work with some talented web designers (that's what WE call them) and they make the software developers' jobs much easier when they know their shit (which ours do). really, what an elitist bunch of pricks you all are. in our firm, at least, there is mutual respect between the software developers and the web designers. glad i don't work with you fuckheads... go take your dilantin and lie down for a while, ok? code monkeys, anyone?
Ask Me About... The 80's!
I doubt there is a single term that successfully conveys the role, as someone has stated earlier. The roles of graphic designer + basic code monkey have merged slightly. I personally use the title Web designer/developer. Obviously given /.'s audience HTML is seen as a rudementary markup language, which is most probably is. But out in the real world well written HTML + CSS (W3C validations, cross browser compatibility, degrading nicely, handling different font sizes) isn't a simple stroll in the park. Throw in some JS, and Flash actionscript, and you have a person with a marketable skill set despite what what the elitist in the IT department may think of themselves.
dwq dwq
This is all equating to this same type of bullshit. Lets see how a code monkey reacts to the following:
1. You know I consider a java programmer more professional then a C# programmer. C# programmers aren't really programmers.
2. Java is not real programming. Someone who does C or Assembly is a true programmer.
2. Lol who works in RPG.
3 4GL is db programming for kids, real db programmer's use SQL.
Get the Gist. I would love to see some of you who work in your one dimensional programming world no matter what language and be asked to build a dynamic db driven website design and programming. I know people who do it and its more work then you realize.
As all of the technologies such a person uses are related to one entity called 'the web', its best to call him/her a "Web Engineer".
JAM
Seriously, what kind of reaction was expected?
We should be able to mark the original article as "Troll" or "Flamebait"... I can never remember which means what, but then what do I know? I just do HTML.
everybody does html, if you can't html, you better hope the guy next to you will pick up your slack.
I don't work with a huge firm, our resources are limited, you just have to fill in the gaps as they come, and if something demands some quick html, you write some quick html.
html, in the way I've seen it used around here, in situations where resources are very limited, is like a screwdriver in a carpenter's toolbox.
Type setters.
Exactly! This recruiter is doing the right thing by specifying what he needs instead of putting 25 different languages for the job requirement and some experience with one language with more years than said language exists.
I prefer & use 'markup-monkey' it has a nicer syllable cadence and allitertive appeal is more correct (html/css/javascript-cut-n-paste is not restricted to web) and maintains that belittling yet jolly imagery.
we are all cosmic nuclear waste
I call them lazy.
Learn php or .net or java or another web language.
What do you call someone who can create a spreadsheet? Or a Word document? I'd put someone who can only write HTML in the same category as them.
HTML is a tool that people with more specialized skills such as Graphic Artists or Programmers use. If all the person can do is HTML their title is probably "Burger Flipper".
I mean really, all you're doing is preparing content for publication.
all you're doing is formatting content in a specific or dynamic layout for the Internet.
They're using their grammar skills there.
HTML thug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLsPF6HkQ_M
This spot by IBM was quite famous in Germany. One central quote 'And where are the web designers?' 'Snowboarding!' made it into the public consciousness and many people are actually calling their webdesigners colloquially 'Snowboarders'.
A person who does only HTML markup, css etc is in no way shape or form a developer and should not have that in their title. They author content. Their title should indicate that. Also having designer in the job title implies skills that a person that authors only HTML has. Sure it sounds more impressive, but it really doesn't describe the job that well. This industry is littered with people that learn a little HTML and advertise themselves as web developers. It makes it a total PITA to sift through all of the garbage resumes out there trying to find people that actually develop!
Errata:
"double"
Should be:
"triple"
I've found that "incompetent" is usually fitting.
Rock is dead. Long live scissors and paper!
Hobbiest: People who make old school pages with tables and depreciated tags because its the easiest way. (Such as grannys and grade school kids, or folks who don't care much about presentation or interactivity.) Hobbiests can also include people who use fairly standard default pages made using CMS tools like wordpress (Blogs and fairly basic forums).
Web Designer: People who make pages to look good. Usually by WYSIWYG type tools like Dreamweaver, although some CMS tools comes into play. These are the people you want making the UI and covering the design aspect since their background is related to graphic design and not CS/Programming. A web designer may do some code related stuff (because it's necessary), but their focus is in presentation and not the creation of applications.
Web developer: People who build pages to be fully functional applications. These are the PHP, AJAX, JavaScript, server side scripting, etc. A developer has a background in programming/CS and not graphic art or design. A good web developer may not be the person you'd trust to make a good looking site or a decent UI, but should be fairly competent to write code that actually does what it's supposed to.
But there can and always will be crossover. Some people start only with a hobbiest approach and eventually develop the other skilll sets. Other people may take up one of the professional approaches via the educational route, and then expand their horizons with later schooling. But you should know what the differences are.
Now it would be nice if they'd get around to standardizing these defininitions and putting it up front and educating H.R. departments. I know I'd have to deal with less B.S. and time wasted on the job search if they could just get it straight once and for all.
Basically describes every Slashdot poster. :)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I call them HTML Specialists.
Code-masturbators.
Shirley; as in "Shirley you jest"
I'm fond of Front-end Developer. It's the most descriptive while still providing leeway for the myriad of talents a good "HTML guy" should have (CSS, javascript, etc).
Client-side Developer is a close second, but I think it would lead to confusion when dealing with "clients" in the sense of people that pay you.
I hate any title with "Technologist" in it. It's vague with a hint of snobbery.
web monkey
... Loser?
Here are some off the top of my head...
0. High school Kid/College Dropout
1. Faux Developer
2. If you have bad QA people (normal), QA+
3. Average QA people (rare), QA w/HTML
4. Superb QA people (practically nonexistent), User+
5. Really smart Users: User
6. Summer Intern/Temp Help
I think it would still classify under fetishism...
or Webfag, or Webdouche, or Netnazi, or... I dunno...
like the outkast album ATLiens
Idiots?
They should be called a slacker.