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Flash Drive Roundup

Braedley writes "When [Ars] last took an in-depth look at USB flash drives in 2005, the landscape was a bit different. A 2GB drive ran nearly $200, and speeds were quite a bit slower then. At the time, we noted that while the then-current crop of drives was pretty fast, they still were not close to saturating the bandwidth of USB2. To top it off, a good drive was still going to set you back $50 or $70--not exactly a cheap proposition. Since our first roundup, this picture has changed considerably, and it leads to a question: has the flash drive become an undifferentiated commodity, just like any other cheap plastic tsotschke that you might find at an office supply store checkout counter?"

311 comments

  1. NO!!!! by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Informative

    has the flash drive become an undifferentiated commodity, just like any other cheap plastic tsotschke that you might find at an office supply store checkout counter?"

    The OCZ AVB 16GB that I have PROVES that they are NOT an undifferentiated commodity: it shat itself when I simply plugged it into my car stereo, which DOES NOT WRITE TO THE STICK. Then I got an RMA'd replacement, which worked once, then I plugged it into my Lady's laptop (a centrino duo dell) and it shat itself again.

    Do yourself a favor, skip large OCZ flashes, they are garbage. Also, OCZ tech support is fucking agony. Probably best to avoid OCZ entirely.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:NO!!!! by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      I, on the other hand, have zero complaints about my several OCZ "Rally2" USB drives.

      They also have ca. 10x the write performance and ca. 2x the read performance of the no-name one I picked up in a supermarket for the same price, as well, so I'd also have to agree that USB drives are not yet an "undifferentiated commodity".

    2. Re:NO!!!! by drinkypoo · · Score: 0

      I guess I'll let them send me a Diesel, since there is no such thing as a 16GB Rally2.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:NO!!!! by rho · · Score: 1

      Your sig has been OBE.

      --
      Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
    4. Re:NO!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Frankly, if the guys at OCZ have added human biological functions to a USB stick, I'm pretty damn impressed.

    5. Re:NO!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have an 8GB RALLY2 that's been working great since roughly last spring.

      The write speeds are decent, and it reads fast enough to play movies.

      Of course, it was $40 when I got it.. Now it's around $20.

    6. Re:NO!!!! by compro01 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      it shat itself when I simply plugged it into my car stereo, which DOES NOT WRITE TO THE STICK

      Before you blame the drive for that, take a voltmeter to that port. The port on my friend's car stereo kept killing drives, and I discovered that the port was putting out over 8 volts. Either the manufacturer can't figure out a $0.10 5V regulator or there's a bad ground or something.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    7. Re:NO!!!! by c6gunner · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I guess I'll let them send me a Diesel, since there is no such thing as a 16GB Rally2.

      Really? That's extremely strange considering that the operating system and browser which I am using to type this message are running off of a 16GB OCZ Rally2 which I am holding in my hand. Here, I'll read what it says on the body, again ...

      Yep: It still says OCZ Rally 2 16GB.

      I can back up what "drsmithy" said - the read and write performance on these is excellent, which is why I chose it in the first place. If you want to be able to carry around a portable linux system with you, r/w speed matters a great deal. Ubuntu running off of my old no-name flash drive took about twice as long to boot up, and firefox would go inactive for a minute at a time, on a regular basis. Plus doing updates really, really sucked. Now, running off the Rally2, I rarely have any such problems.

    8. Re:NO!!!! by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Yep: It still says OCZ Rally 2 16GB.

      Oh, my bad, I was looking at the Rally2 turbo.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:NO!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes there is. http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/flash_drives/ocz_rally2_usb_2_0_dual_channel_flash_memory_drive

      I have one right next to my computer. It works beautifully in my car stereo (usb-enabled of course) and home stereo. It has never let me down, and it is lightning quick. At least compared to the sandisk cruzer titanium 16gb sat next to it.

    10. Re:NO!!!! by Idimmu+Xul · · Score: 1

      Really? That's extremely strange considering that the operating system and browser which I am using to type this message are running off of a 16GB OCZ Rally2 which I am holding in my hand.

      Are you using the next gen of Palm PC or something? Workstation in a USB stick?! What size is your monitor???

      --
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    11. Re:NO!!!! by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Before you blame the drive for that, take a voltmeter to that port.

      I've plugged three other drives in there and had them all work flawlessly. Two Sandisks and some super-cheapie. Regardless, perhaps I will stick one in there to see what their idea of 5V is, just for giggles. It's USB2 so in theory even if I short it out it should fail to die :)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    12. Re:NO!!!! by c6gunner · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's actually a direct neural interface. I had a USB port installed in my left ear, ages ago! I'm surprised you haven't heard of it - everyone's doing it these days.

    13. Re:NO!!!! by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      Your troubleshooting skills are poor (as are those of the people who moderated you up).

      When two pieces of technology don't work together, unless you have the equipment to actually test that they interface according to spec, you don't know which one is faulty/out-of-spec.

      It is quite possible that your high-end OCZ drive is operating well within spec, but the other drives you tried simply have more tolerance for the faulty connection in your girl's car. High end, high speed silicon is naturally more sensitive, as it is smaller, so this would make sense.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    14. Re:NO!!!! by Wraithlyn · · Score: 2, Informative

      I have an 8GB OCZ Rally 2, the write speed is absolute garbage, especially for small files.

      I have a 4GB Lexar Jumpdrive Lightning now, it is the fastest USB stick I've ever owned, gets about 24MB/sec sustained write.

      The problem seems to be that once you go above 4GB, manufacturers are forced to use MLC instead of SLC. MLC is much more compact, but also much slower (at least for writes).

      --
      "Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
    15. Re:NO!!!! by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      High end, high speed silicon is naturally more sensitive, as it is smaller, so this would make sense.

      The thing is that if we're talking about a small difference it should be regulated away (the spec is 4.75 V to 5.25 V) whereas if it's a big difference I wouldn't expect ANY device to live (e.g. the 8V previously mentioned.) My troubleshooting skills are fine, because the second drive wasn't killed by my car, but by plugging it into something totally different — a centrino duo-based dell vostro. I have no reason to believe that it's having any voltage problems, but maybe I'll check after I install Ubuntu on it. Right now it's running XP, and it's not mine, and I don't want to have to install MBM or some intel tool to see the voltages. There doesn't seem to be any voltage info in the BIOS either.

      I add also that when this happens the device is still visible, it just shows up as a different device (not a usb storage device.) OCZ has tools for fixing the problem, which maybe sometimes work, but not usually. Again, see forums. When the forum thread ends in "see PM" you know they sent the customer for RMA.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    16. Re:NO!!!! by Acer500 · · Score: 1

      They also have ca. 10x the write performance and ca. 2x the read performance of the no-name one I picked up in a supermarket for the same price, as well, so I'd also have to agree that USB drives are not yet an "undifferentiated commodity".

      As the owner of a cheap memory, yes, they're far slower writing that brand name ones. I still haven't bothered to spend on a better one, though.

      --
      There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
    17. Re:NO!!!! by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      The thing is that if we're talking about a small difference it should be regulated away (the spec is 4.75 V to 5.25 V) whereas if it's a big difference I wouldn't expect ANY device to live (e.g. the 8V previously mentioned.)

      This is false. More specifically, it is a false dichotomy. It implies that a voltage mismatch is either very small or very large, exclusively.

      When running something out of spec, it is perfectly reasonable to expect some devices to be damaged and not others, depending on their tolerance levels. They should not be considered faulty unless they are damaged while operating in-spec.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    18. Re:NO!!!! by treeves · · Score: 2, Funny

      Order of the British Empire? That's a strange sig.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    19. Re:NO!!!! by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      This is false. More specifically, it is a false dichotomy. It implies that a voltage mismatch is either very small or very large, exclusively.

      I realize that more or less any voltage present in the unit could be coming out of there depending on how badly it was designed... but it seems like the same 5V source is probably used for multiple things, and if the voltage were substantially different the unit would probably exhibit additional misbehavior. I would of course have to rip the unit apart and start analyzing a probably multi-layer PCB in order to figure out if that's true. I wonder what it costs to get a USB voltage tester. Actually, I don't see anything immediately available beyond loopback test kits, how odd.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    20. Re:NO!!!! by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      I imagine a USB voltage tester could be made by cutting a USB cable and connecting the wires to something you can easily snag with a basic $10 radio shack multimeter.

      Go for it and post back. Either way, you should henceforth reconsider making claims of the form "X is faulty because X and Y don't work together" without verifying conclusively that Y is not faulty.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    21. Re:NO!!!! by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      I wonder what it costs to get a USB voltage tester.

      Get a cheap -or free - USB cable (like the couple-inch cables that come with some unpowered hubs). Cut it in half. Strip back the cable's ourter armor. Separate the wires. Strip their ends. Hook the + and - wires to a cheap digital multimeter. (Use the ohmmeter function of the multimeter and a diagram of the USB pinout from the web.)

      Check the calibration of your cheap digital multimeter by a) shorting the wires (should read 0 or no more than +- 0.02 volts) and b) hooking it across a friend's expensive digital voltmeter and measuring a couple batteries or other voltage sources that would use the same voltage scale on the cheap meter as the USB cable would, one higher and one lower than the USB's 5v spec.

      Digital meter: Maybe 10 bux.
      Cable: Maybe free.

      You also end up with a cheap digital multimeter to use for other stuff.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    22. Re:NO!!!! by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Go for it and post back. Either way, you should henceforth reconsider making claims of the form "X is faulty because X and Y don't work together" without verifying conclusively that Y is not faulty.

      You might want to reconsider inferring things from my comments that I'm not saying. The first one failed when I plugged it into the device and read it. The device still shows up as a USB device, just not the same device it originally showed up as. The second one failed when I plugged it into an entirely different device. It also shows up as a USB device — the same as the first one. I never plugged the second drive into the device that killed the first one. I never plugged the first drive into the device that killed the second one. If you visit the OCZ flash support forum you will see that there are more problems there with ATV drives than any other product. If I hadn't had exactly the same problem by plugging the RMA'd device into a second machine, you would have more of a point. You can disagree with my conclusion but it's not as simple as making a totally unfounded assumption.

      Amusingly enough, the other common problem product seems to be the Rally2 that was recommended to me. No problems with the diesel yet, so I think I made the right choice. Problem is they want me to pay shipping on this second drive that NEVER worked. It was bad from the moment I plugged it into the aforementioned Centrino Duo laptop. I've told them what I think of that idea and am waiting for their response. I don't care if it's four bucks, it's bullshit.

      OCZ is clearly producing a product which does not meet customer expectations. Their tests are obviously inadequate to real world use. This is not uncommon, but it is pretty pathetic. The proper response when people are telling you "all your competitors' products work fine" is to just buy the guy's car stereo (or whatever - doesn't have to be mine, lots of people are complaining about similar problems - they could just figure out what it is and where he got it and buy another one) and find out what it is about the device that causes their product to fail, and fix it.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    23. Re:NO!!!! by BikeHelmet · · Score: 1

      Yeah, OCZ USB sticks are awful. I remember reading about mass-RMAs of those "Rally2" USB sticks on the NCIX.com forums. (eStore) Pretty poor write speeds too, compared to quality flash drives. Not very durable; lots of reports of them breaking by being dropped, or being left in a pocket while going through the wash.

      I picked up a Patriot XPorter XT several years ago. (2007) It writes at about 25MB/sec, and reads faster than that. It's survived the washing machine several times, and also my car driving over it. (oops)

    24. Re:NO!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My troubleshooting skills are fine

      Your assertion that all OCZ drives are bad because you ran into two bad ones in a row suggests otherwise.
      also:
      People disagree with you and mod down your troll posts = Slashdot Moderation is broken
      People post in an OCZ support forum that they are having problems = all OCZ drives are bad (hint: People who don't have a problem rarely post in support forums so I would expect to see a lot of complaints)

      Maybe having a few less (or more?) drinkypoos would help you deal with this situation better.

    25. Re:NO!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? That's extremely strange considering that the operating system and browser which I am using to type this message are running off of a 16GB OCZ Rally2 which I am holding in my hand. Here, I'll read what it says on the body, again ...

      Yep: It still says OCZ Rally 2 16GB.

      According to their official website they don't make any 16GB drives in the Rally 2 series.

      But the site does kind of suck so it might be in the deprecated model line.

    26. Re:NO!!!! by zduckalope · · Score: 1

      Of Course that is totaly valid point but how many GB does it have

    27. Re:NO!!!! by cthulhu11 · · Score: 1

      You should have gone FireWire instead.

    28. Re:NO!!!! by AP31R0N · · Score: 1

      For those who aren't familiar with the other meaning of OBE:

      OBE (in this case) stands for Overcome By Events. Meaning, "it's no longer an issue because of some other event". For instance, if you were having trouble finding a present for your nephew, and your nephew died in a cash crash, the problem of the present would be OBE.

      --
      Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
    29. Re:NO!!!! by treeves · · Score: 1

      Thanks, might be good to know. First time I came across it. I'd probably just say DMA (doesn't matter anymore), of course that'd be misconstrued as Doctor of Musical Arts (or more likely as direct memory access). ;-)

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
  2. When they appear in cereal boxes by Shivetya · · Score: 4, Insightful

    that will relegate them to such a commodity status.

    They are close to the perfect method for distribution of free computer programs/art/etc. Who needs AOL discs anymore! We can have a generation of usb key users. Of course I get lots of them from vendors in all shapes and forms, some are actually useful (led flash light, key holder, etc)

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
    1. Re:When they appear in cereal boxes by tepples · · Score: 1

      They are close to the perfect method for distribution of free computer programs/art/etc.

      Really? I thought Internet distribution was more convenient 1. if your work is smaller than 5 MB, or 2. if your work is smaller than 20 MB and you don't anticipate users in areas with no cable or DSL. Otherwise, CD-R is still cheaper, at least in the USA where royalties to the record labels are only 2 percent of wholesale.

    2. Re:When they appear in cereal boxes by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      royalties to the record labels are [...] 2 percent

      You're still buying "Audio" CD-Rs? Sucker.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:When they appear in cereal boxes by dark_15 · · Score: 1

      Surprisingly enough I just saw some cereal boxes the other day as the local grocer's that allowed you to send in proofs of purchase for a Star Trek branded USB Flash drive...

      --
      Unto the upright there arises light in the darkness...
    4. Re:When they appear in cereal boxes by tepples · · Score: 1

      royalties to the record labels are [...] 2 percent

      You're still buying "Audio" CD-Rs? Sucker.

      They're the same price where I shop, and they provide a convenient defense if I'm ever caught with MP3z: "No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based [...] on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a [digital audio recording] device or medium for making digital musical recordings" (17 USC 1008).

    5. Re:When they appear in cereal boxes by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Informative

      IANAL but I really don't think whether you used an "audio" CD makes any difference whatsoever, since the two are functionally identical. The act says that the tax will be added and it says that you can make personal copies, it doesn't say "the consumer shall be required to put audio only on discs marked for the purpose". Besides, format-shifting to mp3 is legal, and downloading the mp3 without proper permission is a violation of copyright anyway.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re:When they appear in cereal boxes by Hatta · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why use a flash drive anymore when you can get an SD card reader and card for the same price?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    7. Re:When they appear in cereal boxes by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      They are close to the perfect method for distribution of free computer programs/art/etc. Who needs AOL discs anymore!

      Although prices may be cheap, it's unclear you will be able to get them to the order of a few pence, comparable to CDs and DVDs. Flash drives are useful because you can easily rewrite to them of course, but I'm not sure they will outdo CDs or DVDs for distribution anytime soon.

    8. Re:When they appear in cereal boxes by tepples · · Score: 1

      downloading the mp3 without proper permission is a violation of copyright anyway.

      The common theory is that the uploader infringes the distribution right, and the downloader infringes the reproduction right. But in this case, because the downloader reproduces each 700 GB batch of MP3z to a "digital audio recording medium", it would appear that the copyright owner is barred from action against the downloader.

      Disabling bonus for this digression.

    9. Re:When they appear in cereal boxes by Smidge207 · · Score: 1

      Dude, what's with the troll posting, lately? Seems like my wicked ways are rubbing off on you. ;-)

      =Smidge=

      --
      Is it just my observation, or is eldavojohn an idiot?
    10. Re:When they appear in cereal boxes by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Well, as far as I know, you already pay on your HDDs, optical drives, printers and scanners. And therefore it is legal anyway. At least here in Germany.
      But they also sue anyway. Those bastards.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    11. Re:When they appear in cereal boxes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      because 99.99% of computers out there have usb drives. while sd card readers are surrently less common

    12. Re:When they appear in cereal boxes by Hurricane78 · · Score: 0

      Because not everybody has an SD card reader. And I do not want one too.
      The good thing with USB flash drives is, that you can stick them to any computer you can find. And even many printers, scanners, and even very cheap car sound systems support them.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    13. Re:When they appear in cereal boxes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www2.kelloggs.com/Promotion/PromotionDetail.aspx?PID=17537

    14. Re:When they appear in cereal boxes by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      Or even better, a Micro SD reader and card. 16GB on something smaller than a finger nail is very nice.

    15. Re:When they appear in cereal boxes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm... because if you use an SD card then you can only read/write data on a machine that has an SD reader? Sure you could always carry around your SD card + reader wherever you go but isn't that a whole lot less convenient than simply having a USB stick that works on any remotely modern computer attached to your keychain? Even with the small-size SD card readers that are about the same size as a jump drive you still have one more piece to lose. SD cards really are targeted at a different market.

    16. Re:When they appear in cereal boxes by Dr.Dubious+DDQ · · Score: 1

      The point is, a lot of "SD Card readers" are only slightly larger than a glued-shut "USB Flash Drive". Buy one and a cheap SD card and you effectively HAVE a "USB Flash Drive", except that it happens to be upgradeable rather than disposable.

    17. Re:When they appear in cereal boxes by Hatta · · Score: 1

      You're missing the point. An SD card reader is the almost same size as a USB drive, and you can use it in any computer with a USB drive. Or even better is a micro-SD reader; mine is smaller than most flash drives.

      It's the same thing as a normal USB flash drive, except you can swap out the media. Why would anyone use a normal USB flash drive in that case?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    18. Re:When they appear in cereal boxes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are arguing that it is cost effective to get an SDHC card with reader for the price of a USB thumb drive, why would we care about swapping out media? Wouldn't we just get another reader with our bigger SDHC card in the future?

      Is a reader and tiny card as mechanically durable and unlikely to be lost/separated as a thumb drive for people who put them on keyrings and/or carry them in their lint-filled pockets?

    19. Re:When they appear in cereal boxes by Mr2001 · · Score: 1

      IANAL but I really don't think whether you used an "audio" CD makes any difference whatsoever, since the two are functionally identical. The act says that the tax will be added and it says that you can make personal copies, it doesn't say "the consumer shall be required to put audio only on discs marked for the purpose".

      I think it does matter. The act says you can make personal copies if you make them with a "digital audio recording device".

      The act also defines "digital audio recording device" and states that no one may import, manufacture, or distribute such a device unless it conforms to SCMS or an equivalent copy-protection system, and that is where the "audio CD" media comes in.

      If you make a copy of a CD using a device that doesn't enforce the copy protection bits and doesn't require you to use media for which a royalty has been paid, then either it isn't a "digital audio recording device" and you aren't protected, or the device was distributed illegally. The CD burner in your computer is not a "digital audio recording device" unless it was "designed or marketed for the primary purpose of ... making a digital audio copied recording for private use".

      (The act also covers "digital audio recording media", which has similar restrictions. "Audio CD" media fits the definition; regular CD-R media doesn't.)

      --
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    20. Re:When they appear in cereal boxes by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Ok, good point. I will do that, when card readers are usable for more than 6 months, before a new version or technology comes out. ^^

      Seriously: There is not a single card of my last phones and cameras, that I still can stick into anything that I have... except for the trash.
      While my old 128MB USB stick still works on every single USB slot out there.

      That is my point.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  3. They're giving 'em away free by Spazztastic · · Score: 1

    I just ordered some equipment from Newegg and I got two flash drives for free. A 4GB one and an 8GB OCZ one. I'm probably gonna use one as a swap on my new i7 Core desktop.

    --
    Posts not to be taken literally. Almost everything is sarcasm.
    1. Re:They're giving 'em away free by holmstar · · Score: 1

      A 4GB one and an 8GB OCZ one.

      see this post

    2. Re:They're giving 'em away free by Spazztastic · · Score: 1

      A 4GB one and an 8GB OCZ one.

      see this post

      I saw it. It was the first post, afterall. Here's the two drives that they gave me:

      Intel 4GB Retractable Keychain Drive and OCZ ATV 8GB Flash Drive. Judging by the responses I'll probably scrap the OCZ one and use the Intel one (after I stress test it of course).

      --
      Posts not to be taken literally. Almost everything is sarcasm.
    3. Re:They're giving 'em away free by whisking · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm probably gonna use one as a swap on my new i7 Core desktop.

      Didn't you notice from the review how incredibly slow flash drives are for small random writes? And that's what matters for swap, as pages in memory are 4KiB. Fastest of the tested drives was getting 0.1MB/s at that block size. Of course in practice swap writing will not be completely random, so maybe the actual performance is not that much worse than a normal harddrive...

    4. Re:They're giving 'em away free by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Didn't you notice from the review how incredibly slow flash drives are for small random writes? And that's what matters for swap, as pages in memory are 4KiB.

      I would expect that small random *reads* are much more prevalent for swap, and that writes tend to go out in relatively large sequential transfers.

      Unless your system is thrashing. But if that is true, it doesn't really matter what your swap is on.

    5. Re:They're giving 'em away free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would expect that small random *reads* are much more prevalent for swap, and that writes tend to go out in relatively large sequential transfers.

      Why? Normally LRU policies are in place for evicting pages to swap, and systems don't usually waste much time writing out pages which aren't going to be evicted.

    6. Re:They're giving 'em away free by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      You do realize that the bandwidth via USB is severely limited? You'll probably slow your computer down doing that. Leave the swap on your SATA connected hard drive.

      If the interface were anything faster than USB though, I'd agree with you. If it's one of those eSATA drives that OCZ has, you might just want to do what you propose.

  4. 1994 Floppy Disc by JohnHegarty · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sounds like they have the same status as the floppy disc did 15 years ago.

    1. Re:1994 Floppy Disc by mrbill1234 · · Score: 1, Funny

      I still use floppy disks you insensitive clod!

    2. Re:1994 Floppy Disc by entgod · · Score: 1

      Why?

    3. Re:1994 Floppy Disc by superFoieGras · · Score: 0

      Sounds like they have the same status as the floppy disc did 15 years ago.

      Except they don't tend to die next to magnets or cell phones !

      --
      I swear Officer, these are not WMD, just plain French cheese...
    4. Re:1994 Floppy Disc by eam · · Score: 5, Funny

      Just the right size to keep the kitchen table from wobbling.

    5. Re:1994 Floppy Disc by Daimanta · · Score: 2, Funny

      Windows XP installation drivers.

      Yes, you can slipstream them into the CD but so far that has proved to be too much of a hassle.(secretly awaits any tips on easy slipstreaming)

      --
      Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
    6. Re:1994 Floppy Disc by daid303 · · Score: 1

      (secretly awaits any tips on easy slipstreaming)

      "make menuconfig"

    7. Re:1994 Floppy Disc by amoeba1911 · · Score: 1

      Except that floppy discs capacities and speed didn't grow exponentially and floppy discs always required dedicated hardware.

      So, how are they like floppies?

    8. Re:1994 Floppy Disc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The SATA drivers are already on the Vista DVD; how easy is that? *ducks*

      This is actually a good reason for installing Vista(!)

    9. Re:1994 Floppy Disc by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Yes, you can slipstream them into the CD but so far that has proved to be too much of a hassle.(secretly awaits any tips on easy slipstreaming)

      Er, nLite ?

    10. Re:1994 Floppy Disc by jank1887 · · Score: 1

      not banned at work. good for moving data filed from acquisition equipment to networked PC's now that USB mass storage is policy-banned. doesn't create a pile of used CD-Rs for small files (because I invariably forget to uncheck 'finalize CD' one time through or another) and isn't as awfully slow as CDRW.

    11. Re:1994 Floppy Disc by petermgreen · · Score: 4, Informative


      So, how are they like floppies?

      They can be read and written directly from applications (in the same way as a hard drive or network driver) on the majority of pcs without needing any additonal software or hardware and they are small enough to easilly carry arround.

      That combination of features is IMO what has allowed USB sticks to replace floppies where everything else failed to do so.

      The superfloppies (zip, LS120, HIFD etc) remained niche products because of reliability issues and the fact that none of them could never get the drives widespread enough (yeah you could cart arround the drive and a CD of drivers for the drive but that kinda reduced the portability). CD-RW got the hardware widely distributed but unfortunately burner manufacturers stopped shipping directcd and in doing so largely killed off "packet writing".

       

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    12. Re:1994 Floppy Disc by Hatta · · Score: 1

      USB drives require dedicated hardware. It's just attached to the storage media, so you can't swap media and have to buy a new drive every time you want more media.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    13. Re:1994 Floppy Disc by nanotech · · Score: 3, Informative

      nLite is your friend. Slipstream drivers, service packs, hotfixes, plus configure/disable many of XP's annoying defaults

      http://www.nliteos.com/

    14. Re:1994 Floppy Disc by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Well, there are USB sticks, that have a slot for some flash cards. Which is pretty cool, but nearly nobody seems to care.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    15. Re:1994 Floppy Disc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some drivers don't even fit in 1.44MB anymore. Anyway, http://www.nliteos.com/ nLite. It's made for you.

    16. Re:1994 Floppy Disc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excellent post.

    17. Re:1994 Floppy Disc by Reapman · · Score: 1

      Reminds me a lot of one of the benefits of Windows ME over the other consumer grade OS, WIndows 98. I don't remember the specific numbers now, but at the time the computer had about a gig of RAM. a gig in 98 would cause it to fail, while ME recognized it no problem. So in a way ME actually ran better.

      Was still complete and utter shite tho. Ran into this problem with XP too.. XP is superior but installing my SATA drives in my computer was a PITA compared to Vista.

    18. Re:1994 Floppy Disc by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1, Informative

      (secretly awaits any tips on easy slipstreaming)

      And that, my friend, is the beauty and magic of complaining on slashdot.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    19. Re:1994 Floppy Disc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You ran a system with over $1000 invested in memory and you chose WinME over Win2000. LOL.

  5. Not just a commodity, a necessity by mc1138 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The phrase, "I'll just put it on my flash drive" is fairly ubiquitous these days and often people will be surprised or even shocked if you don't have one. With smaller ones like 1GB flash drives being given away at tech events this can hardly be surprising. With their large capacity, ease of use and ability to boot from USB they've definitely replaced floppy drives in the computing world. But it seems they're going a step further, as solid state drives continue to increase in both speed and size and continue to lower in cost it won't be long till they or a derivation there of replace standard harddrives. I see them eventually being able to vastly overtake even 15k scsi drives once the read write times are improved.

    1. Re:Not just a commodity, a necessity by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      The phrase, "I'll just put it on my <b>shared</b> drive" is fairly ubiquitous these days".

      No one uses flash drives at work. We all have a mapped a shared drive that has global R/W with folders for every user in this division.

      Makes copying all those unencrypted SSN and Birth Date text files so much easier.

    2. Re:Not just a commodity, a necessity by IflyRC · · Score: 1

      Not to mention, you can't make a tv show involving data transfer any more without writing into the script that the person transferring the data has a USB drive on their keychain. It used to be floppies...then it was full size CDs (see Ford Fairlane), then minidiscs...now USB flash drives.

    3. Re:Not just a commodity, a necessity by jank1887 · · Score: 1

      just make sure to keep it in the same folder as the 'mother's maiden name', 'birth city', and 'make and model of first car' files. Wouldn't want to have to hunt for those.

    4. Re:Not just a commodity, a necessity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      The problem with SSD vs HDD is not the write times, the IOPs on a good SSD is great compared to HDD. The problem is that the SSD wears out with each write, and this happens much faster than with HHD.

      Reliability, not speed, is the hurdle.

    5. Re:Not just a commodity, a necessity by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      In Britain at least, everyone calls them memory sticks, even though they are completely different to the proprietary flash cards made by Sony.

    6. Re:Not just a commodity, a necessity by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      No one uses flash drives at work.

      We do, because it's easier and less error-prone than asking our customers to send us certain data on burned CDs.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    7. Re:Not just a commodity, a necessity by tygerstripes · · Score: 1

      ...or iPods.

      Damn you Harrison Ford!

      --
      Meta will eat itself
    8. Re:Not just a commodity, a necessity by vux984 · · Score: 1

      The problem is that the SSD wears out with each write, and this happens much faster than with HHD.

      Between wear leveling and other life extending techniques, the modern quality SSD will outlive an HDD by a long time for nearly all usage cases.

      And even the most perverse usage cases you can imagine (continuously streaming random data to random locations on a completely full disk...), the modern SSD will still last longer than the warranty coverage on good hard drives.

    9. Re:Not just a commodity, a necessity by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · · Score: 1

      Eh, you know I feel like I've already got enough stuff to carry around without adding one more little trinket. What I want is for my phone to act as my flash drive. Connect to my laptop (or whatever) with WiFi, Bluetooth, IR... whatever works. Smartphone with 16-32GB would be fine, running linux would be nice.... hmmm, Android phone with a big flash drive would do it for me.

      --
      The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
    10. Re:Not just a commodity, a necessity by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      Get a good SSD, and that's more or less a solved problem and has turned into a myth. The main reason to not use SSD's is that most of the cheap ones are MLC which DO have limited writes. SLC chips are much more robust, and faster, if more expensive. That, and we're talking USB drives. USB is very slow for a drive interface.

    11. Re:Not just a commodity, a necessity by solferino · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The phrase, "I'll just put it on my flash drive" is fairly ubiquitous these days

      That phrase, was to be found nowhere on the web, until your own posting. Hardly ubiquitous.

    12. Re:Not just a commodity, a necessity by NemoinSpace · · Score: 1

      more likely his definition of ubiquitous involves interacting with other people and having cognitive speech pattern recognition. Learning how to generate a productive search query would help for those that don't. oh, but you were making a joke? ha.

    13. Re:Not just a commodity, a necessity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe if you hadn't been so damn literal?
      http://www.google.co.jp/search?hl=ja&q="put+it+on+my+flash+drive"&btnG=Google+æoeç&lr=&aq=f&oq=

    14. Re:Not just a commodity, a necessity by ryszard99 · · Score: 1

      I've had my N95 8GB for over a year which does exactly this (except its 8Gb, not 13-32gb). The tech is there, you just gotta "invest".

      Of course its not linux (Symbian S60 infact), and you really, really dont want to copy a HD movie over BT ;-) (YMMV)

      --
      -- $_='ab-bc ratvarre';tr"'a-z'"'n-za-m'";print
    15. Re:Not just a commodity, a necessity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quick everyone, tag this story illjustputitonmyflashdrive.

    16. Re:Not just a commodity, a necessity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop being ridiculously pedantic:

      1. Saying (in the *real world*) â writing on the internet
      2. He means the general sentiment - not necessarily that specific statement, letter for letter.

  6. Yes, pretty much,,, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes, pretty much, except that I really would like for them to make *metalic* end clips for where you tie the little string or where you clip it onto your key chain that don't break! The vast majority of them have crappy plastic ends that always end up breaking.

    I should also mention that I like the unadvertized feature (bonus!) that many of these USB sticks can now survive washing machine cycles, if you just give them a few hours to dry when they come out of your wet pant pockets.

    I would also like to see manufacturers spend an extra 1/1000th of a pennny and simply write on the outside of the USB stick the read/write speeds of the internal memory; granted if it exceeds USB2 max theoretical read/write it's somewhat pointless, but hey.. USB3 is coming out right?

    Lastly people, after you buy one, don't forget to format them with truecrypt, before you dump any files on them. I don't want to see my medical records or SIN number find its way to the unattended StarBucks coffee table.

    Adeptus

    1. Re:Yes, pretty much,,, by cjanota · · Score: 1

      Take a look at this one from Corsair then. http://www.corsair.com/products/survivor/default.aspx Its case is aluminum and waterproof. And the keyring hole is very strong. You do have to unscrew the lid every time you open it, but that doesn't bother me much. Also, the 2 rubber bands on the outside came off of mine. Again, doesn't matter to me. I am very impressed with the quality of the aluminum case and it has a 10-yr warranty.

      --
      You can fix anything with duct tape and sticks.
    2. Re:Yes, pretty much,,, by icebrain · · Score: 1

      I should also mention that I like the unadvertized feature (bonus!) that many of these USB sticks can now survive washing machine cycles, if you just give them a few hours to dry when they come out of your wet pant pockets.

      I had a 256mb drive for years, it survived several washer-and-dryer cycles and a bent-while-inserted incident without trouble, till the lanyard broke off and I lost it.

      The new 4gb drive I ordered failed after one such cycle.

      --
      The meek may inherit the earth, but the strong shall take the stars.
    3. Re:Yes, pretty much,,, by shic · · Score: 1

      I was very unimpressed with every USB stick I used until I bought a Titanium one. Though I had to pay about 5 times that price to get mine, I'm extremely happy with it as hardware.

      I'm less impressed by the US software... and neither TruCrypt nor PortableApps are really make the mark as far as I'm concerned. 7zip archives with AES encryption works OK for transfer of data... but I'd really like to abandon the notion of a traditional file system... it simply fails to help me organise my data in a logical way in the context of portable drives.

    4. Re:Yes, pretty much,,, by mkilpatric · · Score: 1

      Heh, secure them! Yeah, I agree, cause as much as they can survive washing machines, and can be clipped on to anything, how frequently do you find yourself hunting for them when you need one? ("You're never around when I need you!" - Prince John, Robin Hood animated)... I am also amazed in the QUICK drop in price, the fact that they are now in the check out lines of your local Walmart, and grocery store, and are cheaper than buying CD's, just not quite as much storage as a large spindle of blanks... I have probably ten or more of these things that I have had for years, varying shapes or sizes, uses, and hidden secret places I can't find... down to two now, 2gb, free, and 8gb, that reads Mini SD cards....

      --
      mkilpatric, to all the mysterious people, I am the folded dollar.
    5. Re:Yes, pretty much,,, by codeButcher · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What I miss most is that little switch to make it "read-only" for taking photos to the print shop or installing that much-needed antivirus on your brother's pc, which is not online, but gets lots of promiscuous flash activity from a horde of school kids. (And yes, I still trust that hardware switch more than the Antivirus Whatever that's installed on mine.) Not quite in the tsotschke category then, though....

      --
      Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
    6. Re:Yes, pretty much,,, by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      I prefer a warranty for a fixed number of years. A lifetime warranty is useless because when the item breaks, it has reached the end of its life, and is therefore no longer covered under warranty.

    7. Re:Yes, pretty much,,, by rnelsonee · · Score: 1

      May I suggest the Kingston Mini for your next drive - the size is printed on one side (and etched on the other), and they keyring hole is part of the body.

    8. Re:Yes, pretty much,,, by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      I totally agree. I went shopping last week and newegg had only one brand with read-only switches (and of that brand, only 4 models had switch and they were mostly color variations of the same model).

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    9. Re:Yes, pretty much,,, by skastrik · · Score: 1

      Lastly people, after you buy one, don't forget to format them with truecrypt, before you dump any files on them. I don't want to see my medical records or SIN number find its way to the unattended StarBucks coffee table.

      So you think we have your medical records on our flash drives? Interesting.

    10. Re:Yes, pretty much,,, by Trogre · · Score: 1

      Really? A lot of flash drives I use (about half the models I'd say) still have that switch.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    11. Re:Yes, pretty much,,, by BlueNovember · · Score: 1

      Lastly people, after you buy one, don't forget to format them with truecrypt, before you dump any files on them. I don't want to see my medical records or SIN number find its way to the unattended StarBucks coffee table.

      Indeed. A useful warning in the event that

      a) a government employee is reading this
      b) that person knows what truecrypt is
      c) that person was planning on keeping confidential data on a memory stick and carrying it around with them

      ...Actually come to think of it, (c) isn't even that surprising any more :\

    12. Re:Yes, pretty much,,, by visible.frylock · · Score: 1

      Lastly people, after you buy one, don't forget to format them with truecrypt, before you dump any files on them.

      This could only work (in the sense of ubiquitous and accessible like 3.5 floppies) if all mainstream server and desktop OSes supported mounting of a common encrypted filesystem. If anything other than a key input has to execute when you put in the flash drive, then it doesn't really clear that ubiquitous and accessible bar.

      So the design would have to be publicly available and gratis, and the standards would have to implemented correctly rather than screwed up or intentionally screwed up. Don't hold your breath.

      --
      Billy Brown rides on. Yolanda Green bypasses Gary White.
  7. Abuse of moderation by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here is the forum thread where I am trying to get support

    And this is the private message to which he refers:

    Hey,

    At this point the only thing we can really do is RMA the drive again. If you'd like we can replace it with one of our other flash drives. Let me know what you'd like to do

    The simple truth is that OCZ sold me a piece of junk and now wants to replace it with another piece of junk. I've been looking for other options but it looks like I'm just going to have to take another flash drive and hope it works better. Unfortunately, I BOUGHT the drive in the first place because it's waterproof, and I don't WANT a different drive. TOO BAD!

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:Abuse of moderation by coryboehne · · Score: 5, Interesting

      All you want is waterproof?

      USB drives are super cool like that. (No moving parts!)

      All you need is a little 2-part epoxy.

      Take apart your flash drive (any!) and simply coat the green / black components with as much epoxy as you can stuff into it's exterior shell..

      Now, the cap, buy a thin o-ring from your local hardware store, using a knife or dremel, cut a very narrow groove around the inside of your cap. Carefully use epoxy (sparingly here!) to secure the o-ring..

      This might not be 100% water proof, but I'm pretty sure it would be very water resistant.

      -Cheers,
      Cory!

    2. Re:Abuse of moderation by at_slashdot · · Score: 5, Informative

      I don't know if all this is necessary, I washed and dried my flash drives couple of times and they still work fine.

      --
      "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
    3. Re:Abuse of moderation by just+fiddling+around · · Score: 4, Informative

      As an amateur diver, I do NOT recommend gluing your O-ring. These things lose their suppleness and crack, rendering them ineffective.

      Make sure the groove is very smooth to prevent nicking the ring, insert the o-ring in it and lube the ring once in a while (once a year should be more than enough) with silicone grease.

      As for Epoxy: it should do the job in a pinch, but I would recommend looking at some silicone gelly like Olympus uses for it's Tough cameras. More flexibility = less cracking = less possibility of water seeping to the board. Most USB keys get flexed often in pockets, etc.

      Hey, I know it's overkill for a 10$ trinket, but if you gotta do it, you gotta do it in style.

      --
      You're not old until regret takes the place of your dreams.
    4. Re:Abuse of moderation by DigiShaman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And I thought I was the only one that did that. So far, I've left my SanDisk Cruzer (4GB) Ti-Plus in my pocket eight times when washing. About half that time they remain through the drying cycle.

      Since then, I've backed up my data and reformatted the drive prior to copying the data back to it. No problems so far. Quite amazing given that soap breaks the surface tension of water, so I'm guessing the chip is 100% water tight.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    5. Re:Abuse of moderation by coryboehne · · Score: 0, Troll

      As an amateur diver, I do NOT recommend gluing your O-ring. These things lose their suppleness and crack, rendering them ineffective.

      Make sure the groove is very smooth to prevent nicking the ring, insert the o-ring in it and lube the ring once in a while (once a year should be more than enough) with silicone grease.

      As for Epoxy: it should do the job in a pinch, but I would recommend looking at some silicone gelly like Olympus uses for it's Tough cameras. More flexibility = less cracking = less possibility of water seeping to the board. Most USB keys get flexed often in pockets, etc.

      Hey, I know it's overkill for a 10$ trinket, but if you gotta do it, you gotta do it in style.

      Honestly, at some level, wax would really do just fine too... Easier to work with, and could actually serve as the 0-ring too... (just fill the cap and empty out the central area (so as to not wax up the connector.)

    6. Re:Abuse of moderation by c0p0n · · Score: 1

      They might but they will corrode eventually.

      --

      Your head a splode
    7. Re:Abuse of moderation by jockeys · · Score: 1

      I just use one of these badboys. It's great. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233060 disclaimer: I don't work for newegg or corsair. I just like the drive.

      --

      In Soviet Russia jokes are formulaic and decidedly non-humorous.
    8. Re:Abuse of moderation by Xiterion · · Score: 1

      Two part epoxy wouldn't be my first choice of encapsulant materials for a circuit board. The epoxy doesn't give enough under thermal stress. Ordinarily, for consumer goods this wouldn't be a problem, but given the temperature extremes you can see inside the car you left your flash drive in, you may be asking for a premature failure. Better solution is to mold something like this around the electronics.

    9. Re:Abuse of moderation by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 2, Informative

      I used to love SanDisk (paid over $100 for my first 2gig stick), but the last one I bought, a Micro Cruzer 8Gb does not perform up to specs. I bought it to use the (heavily advertised) ReadyBoost feature on my friends Vista machine... Vista says no way (yes, I tried reformatting, both NTFS and FAT32)... and yes, I have seen flash drives pass the hardware test on that box. I have gotten zero reply from tech support. If you go to the forums you can see it's a common problem with the units, yet they continue to sell them as ReadyBoost capable. There is a registry hack that I will try next time I have the machine on the bench, but I'm warning all my friends off SanDisk as much for the total lack of support response as for the failure to perform as advertised... How do you find out if there are enough effected products to warrant a recall or class action suit?

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    10. Re:Abuse of moderation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watch out, my dryer melted the solder holding the flash to the pcb. It was still recognized as a 0 byte mass storage device...

    11. Re:Abuse of moderation by timeOday · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Crayons = wax. As a dad I can tell you when a crayon goes through the dryer it is carnage, so if your memory stick threat model includes going through the wash, I would avoid wax.

    12. Re:Abuse of moderation by Wierdy1024 · · Score: 1

      don't worry about waterproofing flash drives.

      If they get wet you can simply dry them out and continue use - I've frequently got usb sticks wet and they work fine.

      The only exception to this is salt water - in that case it has to be properly washed and dried before use, and more than a few hours in salt water will kill it.

      Also, if you do get it wet fully dry it before use - if you use it before it's dry it will fail in a matter of minutes since electrolysis creates oxygen on the metal conductors which eats them away very rapidly.

      If you want to actually USE a flash drive underwater (rather than just underwater storage), you will need to properly waterproof it.

    13. Re:Abuse of moderation by vux984 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I do NOT recommend gluing your O-ring.

      Words to live by.

    14. Re:Abuse of moderation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Flash drives as manufactured are nearly indestructible.

      I was performing a cold-soak test (testing performance at extremely low temperatures prior to sending to space) on a 2GB Kingston flash drive cut out of its case, and actually noticed a slight improvement of performance from around -10 through -50 degrees C, at which point the test was considered successful. There was no sort of data corruption noticed at these temperatures.

      Because this didn't do much of anything to the flash drive, I re-tested it but continued lowering the temperature until around -170 C, and this only reduced the IO rate. Eventually, just dunked the drive into the LN2 it was being cooled by, and at first had an issue connecting to it, but on the second attempt it worked fine, and could read and write files without a hitch. When I pulled it out, part of one of the images I wrote was corrupt, but I was still impressed.

      The whole trick to the test was to keep the drive unplugged for as long as possible, then only plug it in for about 1 minute to run IOMeter and write and read a file, otherwise the drive would heat itself up quickly.

    15. Re:Abuse of moderation by RemyBR · · Score: 1

      O use an Ironkey. It's waterproof (potted with epoxi), and you get encryption as a bonus too.

    16. Re:Abuse of moderation by b4upoo · · Score: 0

      Try alcohol rather than water for washing. It is best if you can get 100% alcohol which may be available from your drug store if you ask for it. It dries quickly and thoroughly with ease whereas water tends to hide and remain moist.

    17. Re:Abuse of moderation by karnal · · Score: 1

      Come on mods.... this was TRULY funny... I laughed in the middle of a meeting!

      --
      Karnal
    18. Re:Abuse of moderation by at_slashdot · · Score: 1

      It wasn't intentionally, I just forgot it in my pocket.

      --
      "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
    19. Re:Abuse of moderation by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      That's what she said?

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    20. Re:Abuse of moderation by coryboehne · · Score: 1

      Try alcohol rather than water for washing. It is best if you can get 100% alcohol which may be available from your drug store if you ask for it. It dries quickly and thoroughly with ease whereas water tends to hide and remain moist.

      For this application, de-natured alcohol would be a fine product. You can find it at any home construction supply house, and it'll be much cheaper per volume unit than medical grade alcohol.

    21. Re:Abuse of moderation by Ex-MislTech · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      I imagine the Flash drive would work fine on another OS.

      Vista has been known to have other problems as well.

      --
      google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
    22. Re:Abuse of moderation by coryboehne · · Score: 1

      Crayons = wax. As a dad I can tell you when a crayon goes through the dryer it is carnage, so if your memory stick threat model includes going through the wash, I would avoid wax.

      LOL- No kids.. Didn't think about the crayon factor..

    23. Re:Abuse of moderation by coryboehne · · Score: 1

      Come on mods.... this was TRULY funny... I laughed in the middle of a meeting!

      Is it bad that I'm somehow slightly pleased that I indirectly caused you to laugh in the middle of a meeting????

    24. Re:Abuse of moderation by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      These are the ones I've been using and having nothing but good luck with. For me they pass the crucial "survive my boys who can kill a Sherman tank with a toothbrush" test, which is pretty damned good. They are cheap, have survived my boys rough abuse, and just keep on going. The lanyard hole at the end was big enough I could actually put a big cloth lanyard that my college ID used to hang from, so I don't have to deal with those silly little lanyard ties coming undone.

      How the speed is I haven't a clue as I'm usually moving big files, but the few times I've had to write a bunch of little files it's worked great. I also keep my portable Firefox and PC repair toolkit on it so I can say for running apps it is pretty good.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    25. Re:Abuse of moderation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to love SanDisk (paid over $100 for my first 2gig stick), but the last one I bought, a Micro Cruzer 8Gb does not perform up to specs. How do you find out if there are enough effected products to warrant a recall or class action suit?

      It's possible you don't actually have a Sandisk. As the number one brand, they got counterfeited a lot:
      http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=Tw3&q=sandisk+fakes+usb&btnG=Search

    26. Re:Abuse of moderation by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      Well, if Radio Shack (I know, but I live in the sticks) is selling knock-offs then I'm screwed... but the package looks real, complete with the Tux logo and about a dozen others. Also, if that had been the case you would think SanDisk tech support would have said SOMETHING, ANYTHING. The form you have to fill out gets model and serial numbers so if it was fake I would hope they could pass along a clue... smoke signals, something.

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    27. Re:Abuse of moderation by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 2, Informative

      Could be, it moves files just fine... but I bought it JUST because it said this feature (ReadyBoost) was supported. I don't run Vista, but I end up supporting it for friends that were dumb enough to buy a computer without asking me about it first. And no, none of them are geeky enough to want to run another OS, but many of them have stayed with XP so I only deal with two or three Vista boxes. One realtor got so pissed he GAVE me his Vista box and bought a used XP machine. That box is sitting on the floor by my bench, unplugged.

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
  8. Times Have Changed by Jesterace · · Score: 1

    I remember buying a 256MB usb flash drive for $80. Now they seem to be a dime a dozen. I just bought 3 4GB drives for $15.00 from Wallyworld just last month.

    1. Re:Times Have Changed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The first time I ever heard of a USB flash drive was when my brother bought one. He got a deal on it because it was IBM branded and he worked for them at the time: $80 for an 8MB drive. The largest available at the time was 16MB for over $100. I thought it was cool, but shunned it as impractical because at the time, USB support wasn't what it is now and so you had to install a driver on any computer you wanted to use it with. I mean, at the time, all computers had floppy drives and 8MB was just a few floppies, so why bother paying $80 just to waste time installing drivers?

    2. Re:Times Have Changed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Has anyone priced the 8 MB flash storage for the PS2 lately? They're still asking $20+ for the Sony branded ones. $20 for 8 MB??? Are you flipping kidding me??

  9. Warranty is a differentiating factor by Dystopian+Rebel · · Score: 1

    TFA does not mention warranty -- it's a decisive factor for me when I buy anything. The computer industry has given generations of consumers deep scars for forgetting the axiom, "Caveat Emptor".

    Kingston offers a "limited 5 year warranty". The OCZ Rally 2 series has a lifetime warranty. I use these for NAS storage and they are good performers.

    --
    Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
    1. Re:Warranty is a differentiating factor by techiemikey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The first page of TFA has a chart which states the warranty of each one they tested. While it did not go in more depth than "lifetime" or "2 years", it is still in there.

    2. Re:Warranty is a differentiating factor by Tx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Warranty is important for me when buying expensive stuff that's going to retain it's value. But large flash drives are cheap, and the technology is moving quickly. A 16GB flash drive costs a mere £20 now, and chances are that by the time it fails, I'll be able to buy something much larger and faster for the same price, so the warranty doesn't seem that important. Say you had a lifetime warranty on one of the $200 2GB drives mentioned in TFS and it failed, would you even bother getting a replacement 2GB drive now?

      --
      Oh no... it's the future.
    3. Re:Warranty is a differentiating factor by jnik · · Score: 1

      TFA does not mention warranty

      You mean on the first page of TFA, in the giant chart that compares features, the first line that isn't prices?

    4. Re:Warranty is a differentiating factor by Kugrian · · Score: 1

      What do you need warranty for? Can buy a new one for little more than post and packaging would be.

    5. Re:Warranty is a differentiating factor by Dystopian+Rebel · · Score: 1

      I missed the line in the table. Thanks!

      --
      Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
  10. OCZ Throttle by Kokuyo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm running this baby in eSATA mode as a system disk for my mediaserver (windows xp).

    What I can say is that it is doing quite nicely. Sometimes I do get application lag (writes to small files, perhaps?) but overall performance is quite good.

    I've had to reboot this machine once due to strange behaviour but since then it's been running non-stop. I think actual uptime is more than a month at this point. Perhaps several, even.

    If they could get random writes up to par I'd really think about putting one of these in my work machine. Geek factor, you understand ;).

    1. Re:OCZ Throttle by spyrochaete · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I hope your system swap/paging files are not on the flash drive or you're going to wear it out in record time. You get a very finite number of writes and deletes on flash memory sectors and there's no faster way to reach that limit than to put a swap file on there.

    2. Re:OCZ Throttle by Kokuyo · · Score: 1

      Of course not, the pagefile resides on the storage array (if you dare call it that), which consists of good old magnetic SATA disks.

    3. Re:OCZ Throttle by spyrochaete · · Score: 1

      For a $30 USB stick your scenario sounds absolutely fascinating. I can't wait to try this out.

    4. Re:OCZ Throttle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are doing it wrong...

      Let's look at the numbers:
      OZC Throttle - 16GB - $50 at newegg
      SATA 500GB HDD $50 at newegg

      The 500Gb drive will get better than 90MB sequential reads and wont have terrible write performance.

      What's the advantage of using that? It's not like you need to take your media server OS out of the media server...

    5. Re:OCZ Throttle by timeOday · · Score: 1

      I'm skeptical that it would be a problem, but it hardly matters if you simply disable swapping. Swap is an outmoded idea.

      # free
                                total used free shared buffers cached
      Mem: 3091356 3000744 90612 0 31044 2489272
      -/+ buffers/cache: 480428 2610928
      Swap: 0 0 0

    6. Re:OCZ Throttle by spyrochaete · · Score: 1

      Many programs, and especially games, make direct calls to swap and freak out if they can't find it. Disabling swap is like russian roulette. Not really worth it.

    7. Re:OCZ Throttle by timeOday · · Score: 1

      I can't speak for games on Windows. Under Linux I've run without swap for years. I do run Windows on an Intel 2.5" SATA SSD drive and haven't done anything to disable swap, though the Intel engineering and its intended use as a hard drive gives me extra confidence there.

    8. Re:OCZ Throttle by spyrochaete · · Score: 1

      I recommend you read some or all of this Anandtech article about the current state of SSD drives. The author has a clear preference for Intel SSD, with data to back up his decision, but makes it very clear that every write and delete operation you do on an SSD drive brings it that much closer to extinction. I highly recommend you at least have a look at the diagrams in this article and re-evaluate how you use your very expensive SSD.

    9. Re:OCZ Throttle by timeOday · · Score: 1
      "but makes it very clear that every write and delete operation you do on an SSD drive brings it that much closer to extinction."

      I didn't get that message from it. My takehome from the article is that SSD write performance falls over time, but levels off once the whole thing has been written once. For Intel drives the fall is 22% in HDD benchmarks and 3% in real-world benchmarks, and the read speed is "largely unaffected." Of course, conventional hard drive performance does decline over time too, especially if you keep it fairly full, since it forces file fragmentation that kills performance due to rotational latency, both for reads and writes. On the Intel SSD, the degraded write latency is still under 1 ms. the article says, "You end up with a drive that still manages to be much faster than the fastest 3.5" hard drives, but slower than when you first got it."

      I use laptops exclusively, so even matching the fastest 3.5" hard drives would have been the biggest breakthrough in 2.5" hard drive technology in years. I use VMWare a lot, often on a pretty full drive (laptop hard drives aren't all that big). With VMWare you suffer 2 layers of file fragmentation - guest OS + host OS (disk image files) - and running near full increases fragmentation further. Put that all together, and the performance increase over a nearly full 2.5" laptop drive is pretty remarkable. VMWare Workstation's snapshots and suspend/resume weren't even worth using before - they took too long - now just a few seconds. That's a multi-gig write every time, so I must have filled every block on the drive several times by now.

      I didn't notice anything in the article about maximum write cycles, but Intel designed it to last at least 5 years of heavy usage. By then this drive won't be worth $20. I would like larger capacity though. I'm using my laptop's modular bay to hold a second one. That's no too bad, since I don't care for optical media and the second drive uses no power when idle. But I'd rather use the modular bay for an extra battery instead. Bring on the 1 TB SLC flash drives for $99 :) I've no doubt it will happen within a few years.

    10. Re:OCZ Throttle by spyrochaete · · Score: 1

      From the article:

      It gets worse. Every time you erase a block, you reduce the lifespan of the flash. Standard MLC NAND flash can only be erased 10,000 times before it goes bad and stops storing data.

      Based on what I've just told you there are two things you don't want to do when writing to flash: 1) you don't want to overwrite data, and 2) you don't want to erase data. If flash were used as a replacement for DVD-Rs then we wouldn't have a problem, but it's being used as a replacement for conventional HDDs. Who thought that would be a good idea?

  11. Ubiquitous... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...that's the word you're looking for. They've become ubiquitous. Like cell phones and computers. Unfortunately, when a product becomes ubiquitos and many, many companies start making it, you're bound to run into a wide range of quality--both good and bad. I'm sure no one here disagrees that there are many more crappy, unreliable cell phones and computers on the market today than 10 years ago.

    To say flash drives have become "cheap plastic tsotschke" is accurate now about 90% of the time. I try to avoid "house brands" of any electronics, though. These usually make up the 90% of cheap, goldfish-lifespanned crap being pushed out to the consumers.

    Personally, my favorite flash drives are the plastic PNY ones with the rough, matte finish. It is one of the few drives I can attach to a keychain and not have it either destroyed or transformed into a scratched-up mess within a day. The rubberized X-Porter flash drives are nice too and can be bought at fairly reasonable prices considering their speed and quality.

    At least we know this, once a product gets to this stage of its life-cycle, you know it's become an important part of society and the original inventors should be proud of themselves for producing such an innovative (at the time) idea. Thanks, "law of diminishing marginal utility"! We love you!

    1. Re:Ubiquitous... by crtreece · · Score: 2, Funny

      In optimal conditions, goldfish may live more than 20 years, but most household goldfish generally live less than six to eight years, due to sub-optimal living conditions (such as being kept in bowls). The oldest recorded goldfish lived to 49 years.

      --
      file: .signature not found
    2. Re:Ubiquitous... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your remark about cheap drives isn't really accurate. Failure to properly care for any animal means it won't live long.

      If well cared for, common goldfish can live up to 10 years or more in captivity.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_goldfish

    3. Re:Ubiquitous... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I'm sure no one here disagrees that there are many more crappy, unreliable cell phones and computers on the market today than 10 years ago.

      Ten years ago, pretty much all new desktop computers were running Win98, and a year after that, WinME. There aren't words for how much the situation has improved since then.

    4. Re:Ubiquitous... by dangitman · · Score: 1

      I'm sure no one here disagrees that there are many more crappy, unreliable cell phones and computers on the market today than 10 years ago.

      I'd disagree. 10 years ago, people were actually buying Gateway computers. Man, were those shit.

      Even the trashier brands, like Dell, seem to have improved their quality. Particularly in things like case design, which are generally better thought out today, compared to the typical labyrinth of bent sheet metal that was once the norm.

      Laptops have also been getting better in general. 10 years ago, it was fairly common for laptops to overheat to the point of failure. We rarely see that anymore, unless the machine has been a bused, or running under a blanket or something. It also used to be the case that a laptop was only a secondary machine, which wouldn't have the power to serve as somebody's only computer. These days people own laptops as their sole computer, and don't notice any performance difference compared to a desktop.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
  12. They give 4GB USB drives away at trade shows by gatkinso · · Score: 1

    with the corporate logo on them, most of which end up in the trash.

    --
    I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
    1. Re:They give 4GB USB drives away at trade shows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      with the corporate logo on them, most of which end up in the trash.

      Trash? Unlike a lot of trade show swag, usb drives are very handy. And people often lose their usb drives, so it's always good to have more.

  13. cloud is better by spyrochaete · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Rather than maintain my regular pattern of buying and losing ever-larger USB drives, I've opted instead to pay $5 to a web host with FTP access. I get 120GB of storage, can assign a domain name or subdomain to any directory if I want to label some specific content, or I can set up something fancy like a PHP/SQL CMS or wiki if I want to keep things organized. This content is available to me anywhere with internet access.

    I do keep a small USB drive in my pocket if I'm doing an important presentation and don't want to take a chance on shoddy web access. That's the only time I ever rely on a USB drive, though. I'm simply too clumsy to trust myself with gigs of data in my pocket. The cheaper storage gets, the more valuable the data in my pocket become!

    1. Re:cloud is better by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      FTP? The ancient protocol which sends all your data and your passwords in the clear for the internet to see? The protocol which provides only very limited remote operations and metadata to the client? The protocol which really should have died ten years ago? You pay for that?

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    2. Re:cloud is better by spyrochaete · · Score: 1

      I get SFTP too.

  14. They're in cereal boxes by stomv · · Score: 5, Informative

    Frosted Mini Wheats -- collect nine (!) proof of purchases and get a Star Trek flash drive.

    No joke. 1 GB, pre-loaded with Trek content, recommended for ages 8 and up.

    1. Re:They're in cereal boxes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      www2.kelloggs.com/Promotion/PromotionDetail.aspx?PID=17517

      Ah tsotschke. I'm still using web 1.0 so I can't get the free st00f.

    2. Re:They're in cereal boxes by tb3 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Damn! I remember buying one of the very first flash drives, back in about 2000 or so. $50 for an IBM-branded 8 MB. 8 Megs, no typo.

      --

      www.lucernesys.comHorizon: Calendar-based personal finance

    3. Re:They're in cereal boxes by Kugrian · · Score: 1

      That's not 'in' a cereal box. That's 'buy 9 boxes and get a USB drive if you can be bothered to send off'.

    4. Re:They're in cereal boxes by Starayo · · Score: 1

      And I thought my AUD$120 for a 256MB one was bad.

      (I can now pick up a 4GB from my TAFE for like twenty bucks)

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    5. Re:They're in cereal boxes by Jhon · · Score: 1

      Got you beat. I picked up a two 256k type-I sram cards (with battery backup) for my tiny palmtop back in the early 90's. I was in the lap of luxury when I found a 2 MB sram selling for $80. Picked up two and ran stacker on them.

      Ah... the days of portable dos computing...

      That said, I also had an 8 MB flash drive. Handy as hell for swapping files between PCs. And no "click of death" to worry about.

    6. Re:They're in cereal boxes by Thaelon · · Score: 1

      They're in cereal boxes

      Frosted Mini Wheats -- collect nine (!) proof of purchases and get a Star Trek flash drive.

      Then they're not in cereal boxes, are they?

      --

      Question everything

    7. Re:They're in cereal boxes by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      I just picked up an 8GB SDHC micro, i.e., a chip the size of my pinky fingernail for $30, for my Sansa music player. I've been using computers for 30 years, and I'm still in a state of constant amazement. My first harddrive was around $700 for 100MB.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    8. Re:They're in cereal boxes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The USMC issued me a 'hardened' flash drive in 2003 and I was told it was a $500 item, but that is in Pentagon dollars. I think it was 256MB or thereabouts.

      It did survive a mortar strike a light HMMV and M16 did not.

    9. Re:They're in cereal boxes by Arslan+ibn+Da'ud · · Score: 1

      Ha! Don't you try to outweird me. I get stranger things than you free with my breakfast cereal!

      --

      Practice Kind Randomness and Beautiful Acts of Nonsense.

    10. Re:They're in cereal boxes by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Damn! I remember buying one of the very first flash drives, back in about 2000 or so. $50 for an IBM-branded 8 MB. 8 Megs, no typo.

      If you don't mind me asking, what did you do with that drive that made it worth $50?

      (I'm asking because I like hearing about 'doing more with less', not because I'm challenging you. I'm probably going overboard in explaining that but I'm not sure how my tone's coming across. :) )

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    11. Re:They're in cereal boxes by Dynedain · · Score: 2, Informative

      I picked up one as well (I think the sale made a /. article)

      I used it extensively when I was in school. Every machine on campus was at least running Win2k or OSX with USB support. Huge (4+ MB) Photoshop files or sets of CAD work just wouldn't fit on floppies and zip discs were notoriously unreliable (when you could find a machine that even had a drive).

      Made my life much easier and inspired most of the rest of the students in my department to pick one up as well.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    12. Re:They're in cereal boxes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For all you know, the flash drive comes in a cereal box. In the mail. 6-8 weeks after sending in 9 box tops.

      OK, probably not, but it could be. We don't know it won't.

    13. Re:They're in cereal boxes by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      I used it extensively when I was in school. Every machine on campus was at least running Win2k or OSX with USB support. Huge (4+ MB) Photoshop files or sets of CAD work just wouldn't fit on floppies and zip discs were notoriously unreliable (when you could find a machine that even had a drive).

      What about CD/R(W)s? Just curious. In 2000 I worked in an office and flash drives really hadn't caught on because we had tons of CD-Rs. Heck, I had little GameCube-game sized CD-RWs that held 150 megs I often used for network drivers etc. Was the flash drive just more convenient? We avoided them because of the small size, never really gave them a chance. I'm curious if that was a dumb oversight.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    14. Re:They're in cereal boxes by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      The trouble with CD-RW is the software. When burners first came down to consumer price points they tended to come with easy CD creater and directcd so you could use them like removable media. Then at some point virtually all the burner manufacturers switched to nero burning rom and usually did not bundle incd (nero's alternative to directcd). And even if they did bundle incd afaict directcd and incd were not compatible with each other.

      With the bundled software being burner locked and many users being too tight to buy burning software at full price packet writing virtually dissapeared. Having to load special burning software every time you wanted to write something and having to periodically wipe and rewrite to clear wasted space is a PITA.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    15. Re:They're in cereal boxes by Dynedain · · Score: 1

      USB was far more universal.

      Drive compatibility issues, lack of burning software, and lack of burners in university machines meant that CD/RW was not a reliable option.

      Before the thumb drive, I had gotten used to dragging around a USB zip drive, but that of course required drivers that weren't always present.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    16. Re:They're in cereal boxes by Syncdata · · Score: 1

      Word up. I've been filling up and then trimming down my Sansa mp3 player, still haven't maxed out the 8gb with rockin tunes, but sooner or later I will have to pick up a Micro SD chip for it. That said, my first experience with Micro SD was for my DS loader, and I swear, I sat there looking at it for about 20 minutes, in awe. 2 gigs on something a quarter the size of a penny, half as thick? The fact that so many people in this thread are nitpicking is just further proof that the future is now. As far as I am concerned, the USB Flash drive is what the Floppy disk always aspired to be. The unfortunate downside to Micro SD is that it is simply TOO small. Too easy to lose/Break. First HD? 20 mb, and I don't even want to talk about how much it cost. At the time however, it was glorious.

      --
      "Inattention makes clowns of us all" -Bean
    17. Re:They're in cereal boxes by fm6 · · Score: 1

      *And* are willing to pay $9 for "shipping and handling". With a little shopping around, you could probably buy one for less than that.

    18. Re:They're in cereal boxes by plover · · Score: 1

      Bummer, I don't think my Sansa c240 can take SDHC. Of course, it only cost $19 at microcenter, so I don't really expect much from it. And it runs Rockbox, which totally rocks. I've never actually used the Sansa-provided firmware, as I bought it with the intent of putting Rockbox on it. And the 2GB micro SD card was only $6.99, so for my $26 investment I have a nice little player.

      --
      John
  15. Not common enough by Zantetsuken · · Score: 1

    They've certainly become more common and cheaper, but still not common enough. I guess there will always be loads of people to stupid to be bothered to care, but its annoying to hear people asking about "UBS" sticks at the Walmart I work at, or a college student coming in asking where the CD-RW's are because his idiot "computer science" professor insists on assignments being turned in via CD...

    Basically, until its as common as asking where the ketchup or milk aisle is, its still not common enough...

  16. If you have 3G service by tepples · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Rather than maintain my regular pattern of buying and losing ever-larger USB drives, I've opted instead to pay $5 to a web host with FTP access.

    And $60 per month to a 3G ISP so that you can access the FTP host from your laptop, right? I carry a USB drive so that I can use my laptop on the bus without having to pay for tetherable 3G service.

    1. Re:If you have 3G service by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I carry a USB drive so that I can use my laptop on the bus without having to pay for tetherable 3G service.

      Oddly enough, I have managed not to pay for tetherable 3G service at all, and yet my laptop still works on the bus. Also, it has a hard disk inside of it for storing data.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:If you have 3G service by tepples · · Score: 1

      Oddly enough, I have managed not to pay for tetherable 3G service at all, and yet my laptop still works on the bus. Also, it has a hard disk inside of it for storing data.

      What do you use to move files on and off it? Or do you never move files on and off it when you're away from an uncapped high-speed connection to the Internet?

    3. Re:If you have 3G service by spyrochaete · · Score: 1

      Read my whole post before replying, please.

    4. Re:If you have 3G service by xaxa · · Score: 1

      And $60 per month to a 3G ISP so that you can access the FTP host from your laptop, right?

      I just bought a netbook (Acer Aspire One) with an internal 3G modem. I haven't got it yet, but the parcel tracking thing says my flatmate signed for it this morning.

      O2 (phone company) will provide 500MB of data transfer that expires after 24 hours for £2. It's expensive, but there's no contract and no sign-up fee, so it could be OK if I only use it a couple of times a month.

      Vodafone will sell transfer that doesn't expire, also no contract, but I can't see a way to get the SIM without buying an overpriced modem at the same time.

      I probably won't use the 3G very often anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

    5. Re:If you have 3G service by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Sometimes I use (dun dun dun) a USB stick (4GB Sandisk, the slidey kind, with U3 excised) but more often I actually use a IEEE1394 connection to a 1TB WD MyBook. Which reminds me, I REALLY need to get another one of those soon... I'm just having trouble finding the usb/1394/esata version for the low low price I paid for my first one.

      On the other hand, I do use networking for this purpose pretty often. Bluetooth and Wifi are both available on most modern laptops. If the file is more than fifty megs or so it makes a lot more sense to go some other way, though.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  17. USB not always cheap by LinuxOverWindows · · Score: 1

    Well I agree that USB keys have become a use once and lose piece of hardware there are still USB keys out there to hold there own.

    It really just depends what you need. If all you need is a plastic key around your neck for some high school / college word documents then fork out 10 and get your self a 2GB. How ever on the other hand if you really need either performance or security then you can satisfy that to, just not for $10.

    If you look at keys like the "Iron Key" you get a ton of security but at a much high cost per Gig. The average cost for the Iron Keys run:

    $69 - $139 for a single Gig and that's the basic level.

    On the other hand if your looking for performance you can still spend a good amount on just being able to run faster then those around you, the average cost of a performance stick:

    $38 - $270 ( for a 64 GB)

    so It really just breaks down to what you need, well I can agree that the average key is use once and lose kind of situation, you can still get good USB keys worth there cost.

    Thanks
    Docmur

    1. Re:USB not always cheap by sznupi · · Score: 1

      If you want security you use truecrypt. For free. "Secure" usb flashdrives are a scam (sometimes literally, with actually poor security)

      OTOH performance might be often desirable, but imho it becomes less of a problem with increasing sizes - you simply keep everything you would likely need on a flashdrive all the time, with automatic synchronisation/version control.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
  18. LaCie iamaKey by chrisgeleven · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I did not see the LaCie iamaKey USB flash drive in the review, but I noticed on a Lifehacker post yesterday and thought it would be a perfect USB drive:

    http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?pid=11225

    I constantly have problems with flash drives breaking off my keychain. This would solve that issue and looks very durable. Probably will buy it today.

    1. Re:LaCie iamaKey by mkilpatric · · Score: 1

      hey, that is some pretty good functions there, thanks for the info!

      --
      mkilpatric, to all the mysterious people, I am the folded dollar.
    2. Re:LaCie iamaKey by karnal · · Score: 1

      That's sweet!

      I typically have a Cruzer Titanium Plus on my keychain - but they don't seem to update the capacities as often as they do with the cruzer micros.....

      --
      Karnal
    3. Re:LaCie iamaKey by downhole · · Score: 1

      Interesting design there. In TFA, they mentioned being worried that accidentally hitting a plugged in USB drive could break the USB connector off of the drive's board. I guess that won't happen with this one, but what are the odds that hitting this one while it's plugged in will break the USB connector off of your computer's motherboard instead? If something's gotta give, I'd rather it be a $10 USB drive then a $200+ motherboard.

      --
      I don't reply to ACs
    4. Re:LaCie iamaKey by FrankieBaby1986 · · Score: 1

      That looks really cool, but they should have made it easier to remove from a keychain. I would hate to see someone hanging the weight of their keys on my USB port!

      --
      ERROR: SIG NOT FOUND (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail?:
    5. Re:LaCie iamaKey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have one. It looks nice, draws attention and is always with me, but the speed is way too slow. I'd recommend against it if speed matters to you at all.

    6. Re:LaCie iamaKey by Patrick+Fisher · · Score: 0

      It's probably too late for me to tell anyone, but beware of these. I have one of similar design, and while the drive itself may be less fragile, you can easily damage the USB port with these guys. I've got two USB ports with the middle plastic piece broken off that can attest to that.

  19. Will they ever be truly give-away items? by PhilHibbs · · Score: 5, Interesting

    10 years ago, I could give someone a file on a floppy disk and not worry about getting the disk back. I had an essentially unlimited supply of blank disks, you could get a stack of 10 for £1. Nowadays, I do have to worry about getting my USB stick back, as I only have three of them. I suspect that USB memory sticks will never really get to the same point that 3.5" floppy disks got to in that respect. The market value of, say, an 8MB memory stick might be similarly negligible, but no-one's making them.

    1. Re:Will they ever be truly give-away items? by Brit_in_the_USA · · Score: 1

      DVD's are the disposables of the present day. Well the 4.5GB blanks anyway. Once files/collections get routinely larger then things will get interesting. I'm guessing it takes about the same time to burn 4Gb of data to a DVD at x16 speed as it does to move the files to a USB drive.

    2. Re:Will they ever be truly give-away items? by PhilHibbs · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't like to use optical media in the same way - they aren't as re-usable so there's the environmental concern, they're easily scratched, you have to find a separate case to put them in (whereas 3.5" disks had their own protective casing). I used to have stacks of 3.5" disks lying around without ever having to go to the effort of buying them - cover disks, old software installation sets, we had about a hundred sets of Microsoft Office install media at my old work place that got wiped and re-labelled. What price are DVD-Rs nowadays? Last time I bought some I think they were about £1 each, which is almost throw-away price, but nowhere near the ubiquity of floppies.

    3. Re:Will they ever be truly give-away items? by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      Yes - it's interesting that the floppy drive was never replaced entirely by one single item (which partly explains why it hung around for so long). I'd happily give away a CD/DVD, but the writing process is still a bit more of a pain than it was for floppies (well, on platforms like the Amiga at least, unlike PCs which always seemed to freeze everything else as soon as you wrote to a disk...), with no rewrite ability (unless you have a more expensive RW disc, and even then you can only reformat and start from scratch). Flash drives are more convenient, but as you say not quite at the stage where you could happily give them away - even though prices per GB will always fall, I suspect that their minimum price will always be above what floppy disks used to cost.

      It's probably the wide availability of the Internet, and home wireless connections, that have replaced floppies in terms of quickly transferring files to someone.

    4. Re:Will they ever be truly give-away items? by EvilIdler · · Score: 1

      I wish for the same - I want a stack of tiny, flat USB sticks at 1-4GB, no more than 50p or so each. At that amount, I could give them away freely. I spend that amount on DVDs and paper sleeves anyway.

    5. Re:Will they ever be truly give-away items? by hydromike2 · · Score: 0

      cds/dvds are like that, i mean obviously its not as easy to use as a usb drive but you wont really care i you get it back, i remember being able to get 100 cds at office max for free after rebates, and nowadays like 50 dvds for 10$

    6. Re:Will they ever be truly give-away items? by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I just bought 100 verbatim DVD-Rs from Newegg for about $25. $0.25 a pop is pretty disposable.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    7. Re:Will they ever be truly give-away items? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Re/write to CD-R and others has been around for ages. It's called UDFand it's supported out of the box on all major operating systems. Third party drivers have been available for a decade. No need to reformat to erase files one a RW disk.

    8. Re:Will they ever be truly give-away items? by timeOday · · Score: 1

      I agree. I just looked for the cheapest I could find, and couldn't do any better than a 10-pack for $50 USD. link. I would have guessed it was down to half that by now, but no. And for about the same price you can get 512 MB or 2 GB, which makes me suspect the packaging is the cost driver? Unfortunately Moore's Law doesn't apply there.

    9. Re:Will they ever be truly give-away items? by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      The value of an 8MB stick is very little as far as data is concerned, too. But there are a number of companies that will do bulk USB drives. Get them with few enough features, and you could probably get 1GB drives for around $2-5/ea. That's not too much to worry about.

    10. Re:Will they ever be truly give-away items? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      10 years ago, I could give someone a file on a floppy disk and not worry about getting the disk back. I had an essentially unlimited supply of blank disks, you could get a stack of 10 for £1. Nowadays, I do have to worry about getting my USB stick back, as I only have three of them. I suspect that USB memory sticks will never really get to the same point that 3.5" floppy disks got to in that respect. The market value of, say, an 8MB memory stick might be similarly negligible, but no-one's making them.

      In this case, it would be more efficient and convenient to simply copy whatever you need to share onto the other person's flash drive. Instead of making them keep track of another device, they can then centralize all of their info/data sharing on a single device. So no, 8mb drive make no sense here.

    11. Re:Will they ever be truly give-away items? by evilviper · · Score: 1

      I suspect that USB memory sticks will never really get to the same point that 3.5" floppy disks got to in that respect.

      In fact we're almost there.

      First, it was PCMCIA. Then it was CompactFlash. Now SmartDigital.

      They keep getting smaller, with simpler electronics, and cheaper.

      USB drives used to be massive. Then they got gum-pack thin. Then they figured out that big metal connector wasn't necessary, and they got gumstick thin.

      You don't cheap, flat, low-capacity USB drives in stores, because retailers haven't figured out how to make a profit on low cost flash drives yet. But on places like eBay, you can find 10 smaller flash drives for $10, sometimes less. When large retailers start boxing them up in packs of 10, you'll see prices fall.

      In truth, the other thing holding Flash down in CDs and DVDs. It's hard to make something cheaper than a flat bit of plastic... So when you want to give something away, just burn it. It's only with collaboration and frequent updating that rewriteability is really necessary.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    12. Re:Will they ever be truly give-away items? by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the info - I was aware of such things, though I've always found such filesystems to be rather unreliable, leaving me with unreadable discs, or just crashing (come to that, I've found CD RWs in general to be a bit unreliable). Maybe things have improved since I last tried a few years ago, but I'm glad that a combination of wireless, the Internet and flash drives means I no longer have to worry about it :)

    13. Re:Will they ever be truly give-away items? by couchslug · · Score: 1

      I use the paper sleeves instead of CD cases. They are thinner and easier to read when writing with a Sharpie.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  20. Chotchkie's? by Sporkinum · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Want to go to Tsotchkie's? Get some coffee?

    --
    "He's lost in a 'floyd hole"
    1. Re:Chotchkie's? by Critical+Facilities · · Score: 1

      Sounds like someone's got a case of the 'Mondays'.

  21. 4 MiB pages by tepples · · Score: 3, Informative

    And that's what matters for swap, as pages in memory are 4KiB.

    Memory pages on i386 were 4 KiB. In modern x86 CPUs, they're often 4 MiB, which fits a lot better with the 128 KiB to 1 MiB erase blocks of high-capacity flash memory if your operating system supports 4 MiB page mode. But then I'd recommend adding RAM over swapping to flash because it takes a lot more writes for RAM to wear out. If you do go the flash swap route, such as if you're using a subnotebook PC with an SSD, tune your operating system's memory manager to swap less often. (For example, in Linux, set swappiness to 10 percent on machines with slower writes than reads.)

    1. Re:4 MiB pages by Spazztastic · · Score: 4, Funny

      If you do go the flash swap route, such as if you're using a subnotebook PC with an SSD, tune your operating system's memory manager to swap less often. (For example, in Linux, set swappiness to 10 percent on machines with slower writes than reads.)

      Is there a way to do this on Vista Ultimate 64 bit?

      --
      Posts not to be taken literally. Almost everything is sarcasm.
    2. Re:4 MiB pages by daveime · · Score: 1

      Yup, upgrade it to Linux.

      Well if I didn't say it, someone else would have !

    3. Re:4 MiB pages by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Memory pages on i386 were 4 KiB. In modern x86 CPUs, they're often 4 MiB, which fits a lot better with the 128 KiB to 1 MiB erase blocks of high-capacity flash memory if your operating system supports 4 MiB page mode.

      I'm fairly sure that 4MB pages don't cause the pager to swap 4MB chunks to disk at a time. In every unix I've looked at that supports larger-than-4K pages the way it works is that the large pagesize exists to reduce TLB thrashing, because what once took 1024 TLB entries now only takes 1 TLB entry (for the 4MB size). But whenever the system needs to handle pieces less than 4MB, it "flips the bit" to break the large page back down into its constituent 4KB sizes and handles them individually, including paging out to disk.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  22. Pet peeve by stoneguy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Why won't anyone manufacture one with a white matte finish? That way they could be written on.

    1. Re:Pet peeve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use the gluey part of a post it to write something on them. Once the ink is try you can wrap it in translucent adhesive tape to make sure it won't come off.

    2. Re:Pet peeve by tygerstripes · · Score: 1

      Or just a white-matte printed patch. You can get them "personalised" in bulk with your logo or whatever, so why not get them printed with a big white matte patch, buy in bulk, and resell them in batches with a pen? With the right targeted marketing (office suppliers, for example), a motivated individual could do well...

      --
      Meta will eat itself
    3. Re:Pet peeve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a non-issue

      Cut an adhesive label down to a suitable size
      White-out pen
      White paint and an artist's brush

    4. Re:Pet peeve by beirutbob · · Score: 1

      I find that a roll of medical cloth tape works pretty good for labeling drives. It seems to handle day to day handling pretty well, although YMMV.

    5. Re:Pet peeve by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Doesn't sound like it would be much of a problem for the coating. Minimum order from a factory I trust is 1000, want to get some made?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    6. Re:Pet peeve by stoneguy · · Score: 1

      I'm not releasing a product. Just want to be able to buy them as I need them.

    7. Re:Pet peeve by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Well, the problem is, a factory won't get out of bed unless there's a minimum quantity ordered. If you want to get some made the opportunity is right here, right now.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    8. Re:Pet peeve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have some DigiKey drives that I've written on.

      But a Sharpie will write on anything ;)

  23. eSATA on one side USB on the other? by Brit_in_the_USA · · Score: 0, Redundant

    When will we see memory stick models with USB on one end and eSATA on the other? I'm sure there must be some demand from professionals for 16MB+ with such features. When you start moving around more than 1-2 Gb the slowness of USB gets to be a pain. And a 2.5" SSD is not as easy to keep on your key chain. (interesting to note that some SSds have both USB and SATA)

    Or will USB 3 kill this idea?

    1. Re:eSATA on one side USB on the other? by sanjosanjo · · Score: 1

      Here you go: http://bit.ly/jriZj

    2. Re:eSATA on one side USB on the other? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      When will we see memory stick models with USB on one end and eSATA on the other?

      You might want to read the article.

    3. Re:eSATA on one side USB on the other? by Dan+Ost · · Score: 1

      When is USB 3 expected to become widely available?

      --

      *sigh* back to work...
    4. Re:eSATA on one side USB on the other? by RailRide · · Score: 3, Informative
      One of the drives in the article (OCZ Throttle) functions in this way. The review notes that it still needs a USB port to power it while plugged into SATA.

      ---PCJ

    5. Re:eSATA on one side USB on the other? by deroby · · Score: 1

      I have one too and in theory it should be able to draw power from the eSATA port. That said, I still need to find the first computer where it was actually able to do so, tried both on desktops and (modern) laptops... plug in the eSATA first, if nothing happens then plug in the USB, it will automatically come up with eSATA. If you plug in the USB side only and wait a while, the device will show up as a removable USB disk)

      (I use it in combination with eBoostr (a ReadyBoost alike that also works on WinXP) and it's GREAT. Although people will likely reply that I'm quickly wearing out the flashram like this, I find it very useful for storing lots of little temporary files (VSS 6.0 databases 'fly') and MSSQL .ldf files. Too bad the tests don't include IOPS, I'm curious how the THROTTLE would do on that field in respect to the rest of the pack.)

      --
      If there is one thing to be learned on slashdot, it has to be sarcasm.
    6. Re:eSATA on one side USB on the other? by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      Only plugged into a non-powered eSATA port. You can get a powered one, I believe, they're just not common.

  24. So in the write up, by Steauengeglase · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Do we get a nice compare and contrast of the rootkits and malware included on these drives?

  25. Re:And... more abuse of moderation by iamdrscience · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Nobody wants to hear you cry about your broken flash drive, alright? This is not the place for that, hence, "Off-topic".

  26. Re:And... more abuse of moderation by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The question is whether flash drives are a commodity item. The answer is no, there is a vast difference between various flash drives and it is still necessary to do research before purchasing one if you don't want to get boned. My anecdote supports this assertion, and so it is clearly on-topic. The only comments I've posted or intend to post in this thread which are not on-topic are this one and its parent. Admittedly, that is 50% of them, but since the Slashdot management is not interested in hearing about abuses of their ill-conceived moderation system (the invitation to email complaints about same was removed from the FAQ long ago) the only recourse is to post a comment.

    So far this has worked pretty well for me; the majority of the time, someone comes along and "corrects" their moderation by modding the comment back up into reality and letting natural forces take over. I have attracted mod trolls repeatedly, such activity is trivial to identify when you're on slashdot for long periods of time because the trolls are stupid and lazy and tend to just go look for your four or five weakest comments and dump on you.

    The AVB flash drives OCZ is selling are defective by design, they can be written to by reading them, or something. MANY people have gotten bad replacements for their bad drives. They are simply NOT compliant devices! This information is germane to the discussion about whether flash drives have been commoditized! If the situation were any clearer my comment would be invisible.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  27. What's in a name? by benbean · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So if we're agreed they're super-popular now, can we also agree on a name? USB stick, USB drive, pen drive, thumb drive. Just pick one! Where the hell did pen drive and thumb drive come from anyway?

    --
    It's a Unix system - I know this.
    1. Re:What's in a name? by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      USB drive can also refer to an external 2.5" or 3.5" drive, so I prefer to call these things "USB Flash Drives".

      And yes I do know there's 2.5" and 3.5" flash drives...

    2. Re:What's in a name? by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1

      How about taking the USB as understood and just calling them "Flash Drives"?

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
    3. Re:What's in a name? by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      Because USB isn't implied for a "flash drive", you need to specify the interface (in this case, USB).

  28. Re:And... more abuse of moderation by Cowmonaut · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm sorry drinkypoo, but you actually are off topic here. You are going on a personal rant about OCZ. The topic is how flash media has become cheap and undifferentiated. Which is true. One flash stick is essentially the same as the other. You can usually swap out the flash memory in a jump drive and put it in another one. The only difference really is the same difference with any other commodity (including other undifferentiated ones) and that is a difference in manufacturing quality.

    The "speed differences" are largely imaginary as the USB connection bottlenecks access times anyways. Things like customer support and warranties are factors for buying a specific brand of thumb drive but aren't qualities that differentiate the actual product as the products themselves are largely the same.

    I'm sorry you had a frustrating experience with OCZ but complaining about Slashdot moderators isn't going to do any good anyways. Chances are by this afternoon you'll be +5 Insightful once someone who has also had a bad experience with OCZ gets in here. Of course given most people seem to have good experiences with OCZ its possible that you'll be a bit lower than +5 by the end of day.

  29. 16Gb ? by polar+red · · Score: 1

    I am waiting for 64Gb and 128Gb sticks. 256Gb would be nice to.

    --
    Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
    1. Re:16Gb ? by frith01 · · Score: 1
  30. Sony Micro Vault by mathimus1863 · · Score: 1

    I got two Sony Micro Vault flash drives a year ago, like $20 for 2GB and $40 for 4GB. They are USB keys, but don't have the metallic anchor around them, making them about the same thickness as an SD card. I keep them in my wallet where I would normally keep my ID (relocated to CC pocket) and therefore have them accessible at all times. The 2GB key I keep encrypted (dmcrypt/LUKS) and that contains basically all my personal information. The 4GB key has anything and everything and constantly break it out to give or get data from people. I now can't live without them, and people are impressed by how nerdy I am that I have such small USB keys on me all the time.

    I tried some similar Kingston USB keys (also tiny, with keychain hole) but both stopped working--completely, hopelessly dead--after 1 month.

    The fact that we can store 16e9 bytes on a disk the size of our thumbnail for a price that is accessible to the average person, is evidence enough that we've reached "the future".

  31. 16gb flash drives by v1 · · Score: 1

    I bought an ADATA 16 gb flash drive when they first came out, and it worked great. It wasn't a "double wide", but was pretty thick and long. The computers I work on require small width due to some of their USB ports and I don't want to have to carry around a 4" usb jumper cable.

    When my cat hid it, I bought another which turned out to be defective and I never was able to get a replacement. (at the time they cost over $130)

    I bought a lexar firefly 8 and used that until they came out with a 16, which I now have.

    The firefly is thin, not wide, short, has an easy to see activity light, and the lanyard attaches to the CAP, meaning it's not necessary to untangle yourself from it to plug it in. (and it leaves the noisy cap swinging around banging into things to remind you that you are about to forget your flash drive in the back of the machine you're walking away from) It's the only flash drive that I know of that has the lanyard attachment on the cap which is a great feature.

    My only complaint is I wish it had a write lock switch. I don't have to work on viris-ridden windows boxes, but if I did, that would unfortunately be a requirement.

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    1. Re:16gb flash drives by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Get an SD card reader. SD cards have physical write lock switches.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:16gb flash drives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SD cards's lock switches are software-based, not hardware-based. Your OS's driver must be able to read the switch and implement the correct locking behaviour. Early GNU/Linux didn't, so at that time you couldn't write-protect an SD card under GNU/Linux (but now you can).

  32. Trivia: by RailRide · · Score: 4, Informative
    "The days of Win98SE driver disks are long gone"

    True. But for those who still have machines running '98, there is a little known generic mass storage driver for '98 that allows use of newer drives that do not come with '98 support.

    I have a tower still running 98SE that I installed this driver onto. It'll take any flash drive I shove into it, that whore :D.

    ---PCJ

    1. Re:Trivia: by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      Is there a reason you're still running 98? I've found that anything that XP won't run will run in Dosbox. I have yet to find an app that won't run in XP or Dosbox but will run in 98.

    2. Re:Trivia: by wilec · · Score: 1

      "True. But for those who still have machines running '98, there is a little known generic mass storage driver for '98 that allows use of newer drives that do not come with '98 support."

      I concurr, this driver works well for me as well. I installed it on a WIN98 (not a SE box either) box hosting a Metasys FMS isolated network a couple years ago desperate for a free method to back the system up, don't ask why. Since then I have installed a Iomega CD burner with its own driver for backups. Still this generic USB driver served me well then and now and reads every flash drive I have thrown at it 100%, never failed so far, though I am very very very cautious about what is on the flash media and where it has been, remember the box is on an isolated dedicated network for a reason.

    3. Re:Trivia: by RailRide · · Score: 1

      It's not my primary system. I just left whatever OS was there when it was superceded by a newer laptop running XP. It actually only gets fired up when I want to print to it's printer over the network, either from the XP machine, or an even more ancient '98 laptop (PII-266) that sits in a corner and runs Thunderbird to collect email. Oddly enough on that laptop, leaving IE running next to TB seems to keep it stable enough to run a a few weeks at a time without locking up :)

      It sounds like an awkward arrangement, but I've had issues with the XP machines seeing each other or the NAS on the network. The two '98 machines mostly behave themselves (for the amount of time they're actually in use printing or diddling with the NAS box), so I haven't been motivated to retire them.

      I am aware of DOSBox, though. I'm eyeing it for use on my Vista...er, future Win7 machine that's waiting to take over as primary.

      ---PCJ

  33. Making vs. presenting by tepples · · Score: 1

    Read my whole post before replying, please.

    You admitted that sneakernet is useful for "doing an important presentation". But often, I have "shoddy web access" or none at all even when I'm making something and not presenting it. I might be waiting for my food in a restaurant that charges more than I'm willing to pay for Wi-Fi access, or I might be bored at someone's birthday party and waiting for a ride home. And I agree that a USB drive shouldn't hold the only copy of a work, but neither should a remote server.

    1. Re:Making vs. presenting by spyrochaete · · Score: 1

      Your point is valid for the scenarios you mention. Personally, if I know I need to work on something remotely I'll save it to my laptop hard drive and and work on it locally before uploading it again when I'm connected again. If you use multiple computers or you never know when you'll need to work on a file then your suggestion to keep a USB drive is a more sensible idea.

  34. You can buy a 64Gb today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    64Gb = 8GB

  35. like, whatever by CristalShandaLear · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One day I said to my 16-year-old daughter, "Hey, cute bracelet" and she says, "It's my flash drive."

    I remember being amazed and a bit amused when you could get a Swiss Army knife with a USB drive. That was cool. But it's hard, and kind of interesting in weird sort of way, to see tech relegated to the fashion accessory of a teen girl.

    1. Re:like, whatever by wilec · · Score: 1

      I remember seeing a bluetooth device a young asian girl was holding that consisted of a speaker and mic connected by a flexible cable with shape memory ability. She had the speaker end wrapped around her thumb and the mic end wrapped around her index finger. Maybe not necessarily ergonomic for extended use, but for damn sure cute.

      wabi-sabi
      matthew

  36. This review doesn't make sense from the start by Yvan256 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    To test this commodity theory, we selected a cornucopia of mostly 4GB and 8GB USB flash drives ranging from $9 to $30 dollars (average: $19.00)

    Products (tallest to smallest)
    OCZ Throttle 16GB ($57.98)
    Patriot Xporter XT 16GB ($41.99)
    Corsair Flash Voyager 16GB ($35.99)
    OCZ Rally2 4GB ($25.49)
    Kingston DTI 2GB ($7.99)
    Sandisk Cruzer Micro 4GB ($10.95)
    Super*Talent Pico-B 4GB ($18.99)
    PQI i820 1GB ($9.99)

    Their list has three 16GB, three 4GB, one 2GB and one 1GB flash drives. How is that "mostly 4GB and 8GB"?

    And the prices go from $10 to $56, how is that "from $9 to $30"? There's three drives over $30 listed, not to mention that only morons view $9.99 as being equal to $9 instead of $10.

    1. Re:This review doesn't make sense from the start by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      Yes I saw the table at the bottom of the first page. But the way their text is written (see quote above), it's confusing at best.

      And from their table, the drives are mostly 4GB, 8GB and 16GB.

    2. Re:This review doesn't make sense from the start by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Their list has three 16GB, three 4GB, one 2GB and one 1GB flash drives. How is that "mostly 4GB and 8GB"?

      Its an average!

      (16GB*3 + 4GB*3 + 2GB + 1GB) / 7 = 7.875GB

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    3. Re:This review doesn't make sense from the start by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      They priced them up to 16GB in those lines. But they didn't test them.

  37. Something like that in my neighborhood? by tepples · · Score: 1

    O2 (phone company) will provide 500MB of data transfer that expires after 24 hours for £2. It's expensive, but there's no contract and no sign-up fee, so it could be OK if I only use it a couple of times a month.

    Does any provider offer a similar prepaid data plan in the midwestern United States?

  38. Do any of them have a physical read/write switch? by schwit1 · · Score: 1

    This is basic feature for the true geek.

  39. No tools required by RayMarron · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ;) This ain't rocket science. You want to waterproof something little, just put it in a condom and tie the end in a knot. Whether this is cost-effective or not depends on the price difference between your current USB drive and the fancy waterproof one, and the price of condoms over the expected use period (or how good you are at untying those knots).

    --
    ON DELETE CASCADE
  40. Dropbox by The+Warlock · · Score: 1

    You can get something similar for $0/month if 2GB is enough for you, and it has a really nifty auto-sync utility.

    https://www.getdropbox.com/referrals/NTYwNjQzNzk

    --
    I've upped my standards, so up yours.
    1. Re:Dropbox by spyrochaete · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sure it's free but you get what you pay for. I'd rather pay a huge web host that isn't going anywhere for some open-ended FTP storage, than surrender my personal documents to a fly by night startup that could close shop any time!

  41. Re:And... more abuse of moderation by moonbender · · Score: 2, Informative

    The "speed differences" are largely imaginary as the USB connection bottlenecks access times anyways.
    Hardly. Access times might be terrible either way, but there's a significant (order of magnitude) difference in throughput between different flash drives. Not a big deal when all you're copying is 2 MB PPTs, but a potential deal breaker if you occasionally want to use it for 700 MB, uh, media files.

    --
    Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
  42. Re:And... more abuse of moderation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Commodity does not mean "perfect" and your anecdote does not actually tell us whether OCZ is bad or whether you got an unlucky batch. Without a statistical analysis, we don't know if there's any validity to your rants as far as predicting how future items will behave.

    For most of us, fruits and vegetables are commodity items at the grocery, but you can still end up with a rotten or wormy item by chance. Some people might blame Dole (a supplier), or a grocery chain, or the local stock boy's handling, or the consumer's shopping skills/luck, or the consumer's handling of the fruit post-purchase. None of these actually make it less a commodity, and essentially all of them apply to your case as well.

  43. They're not the same by TheLink · · Score: 3, Informative

    > The "speed differences" are largely imaginary

    Uh, RTFA. Or go do some testing, or troll elsewhere.

    The write speeds certainly are significantly different.

    There's the crap 4-6MB/sec range. And there's the 12MB-20+MB range.

    They certainly are not the same. The sandisk cruzer contour has a far faster write speed than the sandisk cruzer mini (which was tested in the article), but it's _wide_, so it blocks adjacent USB ports to the side. Some laptops only have two USB ports side-by-side (not top-bottom), so this can be quite annoying.

    --
  44. Umm, yeah - duh by matt_martin · · Score: 1

    After a few years, everything in tech goes this way. Until somebody invents the "next big thing".

    --
    Lurking in the desert
  45. Two words: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    blue ray

  46. Re:Do any of them have a physical read/write switc by TypoNAM · · Score: 1

    I do truly miss it from the days I had my easy disk 64MB thumb drive. I don't understand why vendors stopped putting the switch on them. I guess they could break over time or been having issues with them getting stuck in a position in the past, but I didn't personally have problems with my easy disk read only switch.

    They could at least put them on external hard drives since that would be useful when hooking up a drive to a known virus/malware infested machine to run cleaning/diagnostics software off of and won't have to worry about the drive becoming infested as well.

    --
    This space is not for rent.
  47. Recommendation for drives with write protect tabs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The 3.5-inch floppy disk of yore had a write protect tab. The typical flash drive of 2009 has none. This makes it hard for field reps and service people to avoid infecting their drives when working with customer computers!

    A search via Google turned up the following recommendations for an eight-gig drive:

    Kanguru FlashBlu II, model ALK-8G;
    Imation "Swivel Flash Drive," model number 26654.

    I ended up with the FlashBlu II; OS X 10.4 "Tiger" recognizes its write protection; I haven't tried Windows or Linux yet.

  48. I own a 64GB Patriot xPorter Magnum by gatkinso · · Score: 1

    It is aluminum. Red. A nice thumb drive.

    It is a little large, but all in all OK.

    --
    I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  49. Sandisk Micro and multi-partition support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The Sandisk Micro drives have a feature which websites often discuss but absolutely no one in the open-source world has actually made use of, or tried to figure out:

    The fact that the flash drive, when inserted fresh out-of-the-box or after being formatted with Sandisk U3 tools, appears as *two* separate drives: a read-only CD (around 20MBytes I think), and the rest being a standard R/W flash drive (usually FAT formatted).

    "Who cares? Get that CD/U3 crap out of here" is the first response, until you take the time to point out to someone the beauty of it. Think about it: a flash drive that's been formatted in such a way where there are literally multiple CDs appearing to the BIOS or bootloader, so that you can have a flash drive that has a FreeBSD disc1 CD on it, a Ubuntu Linux CD image on it, a Windows CD on it, etc... Now think about how useful that would be in a multi-OS co-location environment.

    I spent 3-4 weeks trying to accomplish what Sandisk appears to be doing out-of-the-box, and I can't for the life of me figure out how they're getting the USB flash drive to actually appear as two separate devices. There must be some kind of USB CD emulation layer in the microcode on the drive itself which formatting (with the Sandisk U3 tool) tickles.

    If you format the flash drive using the famous HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool (e.g. make your USB flash drive bootable), you lose this capability, and end up with a flash drive that appears as a USB hard disk. Good luck booting multiple OSes for installation that way, without pulling your hair out or horrible hackery involving Fart, err, I mean Bart's boot tools and a bunch of other crap that assumes you're making a single CD.

    Anyone know how Sandisk is doing this, and if so, why isn't there software out there which can let you "partition your flash drive" into multiple CDs using ISO files?

    1. Re:Sandisk Micro and multi-partition support by Skapare · · Score: 1

      Mine do not show up as two devices. I'm using a vanilla Linux setup, so if only one USB device is presented to the USB bus, I'll only get once device in the kernel, and only one device node will be available for the whole device. Partition devices will show up, as partitioned, but so far there has been only one such device and it has always been FAT formatted (or is that FAT32?). Maybe you are getting an extra device based on the partition?

      I then make a compressed archive of the entire device contents, and write onto it a pre-built drive image that contains a partition table with one Linux (type 83) partition pre-formatted with ext2.

      I don't know what is recorded on your devices. Mine show up with one partition and it's empty. There's no software. There are no files. Maybe I'm missing something? But the package labeling does not say there is any software, either.

      Once a drive is inserted, if other software acts on the drive, it's certainly possible for that software to locate ISO files and loopback mount them and they show up as CD devices. I've never seen this before, but based on some things I have seen, this would not be hard for programmers to do. Note that such "drives in files" would not be available to the BIOS to boot from, unless the BIOS also has this trick coded into it.

      I have seen a BIOS that, when booting from a USB device that had an ISO image written directly on it at sector 0 (e.g. someone used "dd" or equivalent to copy an ISO file to the USB device), that BIOS engaged CD/DVD emulation, and performed an El Torito style boot just as it would from a real bootable CD/DVD. Then it would be up to the kernel and/or its initrd code to find the ISO image on a HD-like device (since it's just a HD to the kernel) and mount it (FYI ... Ubuntu's casper initialization system will succeed at this). But I don't know that this is what you are running into.

      Are we even talking about the same kind of devices? I have SanDisk brand Cruzer product devices in 2GB, 4GB, 8GB, and 16GB sizes. Is that what you have?

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  50. tschotschkes by ragutis · · Score: 1

    They have, at least in Cambridge. The local computer superstore has USB sticks, Sd and Micro SD cards in bins at the checkouts,$5-15 depending on size. Granted, they're store brand, but I use these as the other poster used floppies, without breaking the bank.

  51. my sources say... by Eil · · Score: 1

    and it leads to a question: has the flash drive become an undifferentiated commodity, just like any other cheap plastic tsotschke that you might find at an office supply store checkout counter?"

    I'm guessing no, or they wouldn't have written an entire article about it.

  52. Speed by alexo · · Score: 1

    speeds were quite a bit slower then

    I beg to differ.
    Did you notice that most manufacturers only advertise read speeds nowadays?
    With the wholesale move from SLC to MLC, write speeds dropped (as well as reliability).

  53. Memorex FTW by kamikaze2112 · · Score: 0

    I still believe that my Memorex M-Flyer is the fastest flash drive out there. Sure it's only 2gb (there were hopes of a 4gb for a while, but it got canned for some reason), but it's faster than any other flash drive I've ever used by leaps and bounds. A quick comparison with a Kingston drive and a ~600mb ISO shows the transfer to the kingston at a little over 2 minutes, where the M-Flyer was under a minute. By the looks of their website (http://www.memorex.com/products/product_details.php?FID=217&PID=1171) they are still offering the 2GB M-Flyer.

  54. Flash Drive/Wireless NIC combo by goldspider · · Score: 1

    Does anyone know if anyone is still making such a combo? I've seem some that only have a 512MB flash drive a few years ago. Something like this would be very handy for fixing people's desktops at home; just pop it in, installs itself with drivers stored in the flash memory, and I have all of my diagnostic tools at the ready.

    --
    "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
  55. RE: Why?... Why Not? by tunapez · · Score: 1

    Commonly used CD ISOs: Linux Live OS, OPH, Photorec, Memtest, DBAN, Acronis Recovery, DOS boot Disk, pre-Vista MS OS's... That's alot of flash drives.

    Common used util's and drivers come in handy on systems with short-bus syndrome(corrupt, legacy 1.0, or no drivers installed). Flash drives have also been known to corrupt/fail with no warning or apparent cause.

    ISO creation of fresh OS loads(sans Vista), for fast & easy recovery... one copy on storage drive, one "working" copy gathering dust on the cd spindle.

    I carry about a dozen disks daily, along with 2 flash drives and 2.5" SATA drive/cables.

    --
    Imagination drew in bold strokes, instantly serving hopes and fears, while knowledge advanced by slow increments...
  56. Sort of OT by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

    Anybody here ever tried using TrueCrypt on a Flash drive for ferrying sensitive data between two places? Is it fairly reliable?

    --

    "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    1. Re:Sort of OT by guruevi · · Score: 1

      I use it regularly. No problems so far. As long as your flash drive doesn't corrupt it should be fine. If your flash drive does corrupt part of the data you'll lose it but that's true of all encrypted media. The question is: if something corrupts anyway on an unencrypted drive would you trust the rest of the data?

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    2. Re:Sort of OT by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      How would you describe how frequent an occurance of corrupt'age is?

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    3. Re:Sort of OT by guruevi · · Score: 1

      So far I haven't had any with flash drives. I think the corruption starts way after the deprecation date (5 years) when the stick is too small to be useful or long lost. CD's and DVD's corrupt after about 1-5 years depending on the brand and storage location (moisture, heat). Hard drives corrupt as soon as you drop them hard enough, otherwise they work well for 10 years (if they're not spinning).

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  57. Do not give LaCie your money. by Zaphod-AVA · · Score: 1

    Do not give LaCie your money.

    For years they have made a two disk external drive called Big Disk. This device uses a proprietary RAID 0 configuration. With a single drive external, if there is a problem, you can pull the drive and get a decent chance of recovering your data. If LaCie's Big Disk device fails in any way, your data is gone. LaCie will not help you. They won't even tell you what the offset or stripe size of the RAID is. Buy another device, and try putting the drives in that is their only advice. Clean room recovery is your only option, and that service for a RAID is quite expensive.

    Not only do they continue to sell this device, they *advertise it for backup purposes*!

    Here is their current ad:
    http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?pid=11138

    Some excerpts:

            * Sturdy aluminum heat sink design for high reliability
            * Ideal for large volume backups or creative pro use
            * Genie and Intego Backup Manager Pro incl.
            * Time Machine Compatible

    Selling that device to people for backup use is unconscionable. Don't give LaCie your money.

    1. Re:Do not give LaCie your money. by svallarian · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that the case itself was poorly designed. It was solid aluminum with no fan, but the aluminum was too far away from the drives, creating a nice little oven for the poor 500GB drives inside.

      We lost FOUR out of FIVE in under two years. The only reason the fifth didn't fail was because it was in a freezing cold server room.

      --
      I patented screwing your mom. But it got revoked for "prior art."
  58. Moore's Law and Convergence by psydeshow · · Score: 1

    We're going to hit a point really soon when the main difference between flash drives will be what OS they use to protect your data and what other functions are on the same chip.

    As in, a flash drive that's not really a flash drive, it's a small computer that emulates a drive when plugged in to another computer. With wi-fi, GPS, bluetooth, etc.

    You'll pay extra for a drive that's smart enough to protect/hide important data from malware on any computer you plug it into, back up data to a remote server when wireless is available, phone home if lost or stolen, and tag files with location metadata as they are created.

    And of course this already exists, as an SD card for cameras: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B001ACXHXE/ Welcome to the future!

    1. Re:Moore's Law and Convergence by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      Which seems to be about giving the camera a wireless upload (and geo-tagging) feature, pluggable as if it were an ordinary memory card for recording pictures.

      Cute device.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  59. Re: Why?... Why Not? by entgod · · Score: 1

    It would be alot cooler to carry one big flash drive with a boot loader and many partitions containing the bootable images. Well, your afraid of the flash getting corrupted, carry two.

    Not that I do that, I tried but failed miserably at doing so. Does anyone know of an easy way of accomplishing this? Something as simple as this shouldn't be so hard to do :)

  60. Re:And... more abuse of moderation by ergo98 · · Score: 1

    My god....do you live on Slashdot?

    I read Slashdot infrequently, but virtually every story I open, there you are. I of course notice you given that you long ago marked me as a foe (I believe it was because you were copulating with a blu-ray player and I questioned your boy->electronics love)

  61. They have soo many uses... by TavisJohn · · Score: 1

    USB Flashdrives are inexpensive, useful, stable, and work on most computers.
    I have a container with 10 or so flashdrives of various sizes from 1 gig to 16 gig.

    I do a lot of computer work, so I end up installing lots of software. I use a 16gig flashdrive to store the installers of software that I install often. The reason that I use a flashdrive instead of a DVD or portable HD is because a flashdrive is smaller than both, is not effected if I drop it, and most of those apps are updated regularly, so it is a pain to have to re-burn the whole disk just for 1 or 2 updates.
    It is also a handy way to quickly transfer files between computers.
    Also many DVD players have USB ports for displaying pictures, playing music or videos.
    They also make nice gifts. I have made digital greeting cards and put them onto a flashdrive.
    I have even made a digital Business card, but my name on the outside, and handed them out as Business Cards.
    There are soo many uses for those little devices.

    However for businesses to use them, that could be a major security risk.

  62. Amazon has them for $2/GB AR FSS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    from TFA:

    Best Drives for fastest read/write speeds: The award here goes to both the OCZ Throttle and the Patriot Xporter XT. Both have very fast read and write speeds in USB2 mode. The OCZ Throttle also has a ridiculously fast eSATA mode. The Patriot Xporter XT has a Lifetime warranty (compared to the Throttle's 2-year warranty).

    Amazon has a good deal after rebate and free shipping on the Patriot:

    Patriot Xporter XT Boost High-Speed USB Flash Drive - 16GB (PEF16GUSB) $33 after rebate (buy.com $45, newegg $47)

    Patriot PEF32GUSB Xporter XT Boost High-Speed USB Flash Drives (Black) $58 after rebate (buy.com $86, newegg $80)

  63. Yes, it has. by Livius · · Score: 1

    "has the flash drive become an undifferentiated commodity... that you might find at an office supply store checkout counter?"

    Yes. We had them when I did some part-time work as a bookstore cashier not long ago, and I see them at plenty of other places as well.

  64. Downside of swiss army knife flash drive: by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    I remember being amazed and a bit amused when you could get a Swiss Army knife with a USB drive.

    Can't use it with your laptop in an airplane, though.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  65. non-contact switch by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    I don't understand why vendors stopped putting the switch on them. I guess they could break over time or been having issues with them getting stuck in a position ...

    They should use a hall sensor on the board and a magnet in the slider.

    Or include the magnet in a double-cap connector cover set up so you have to leave the magnet ring on the drive to write it.

    Magnetize the material in the ring as a Halbach array so it doesn't degauss any floppies if the key happens to be tossed in a container with them.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  66. Why do people use USB sticks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I find it much more useful to have a USB adapter for SD cards. The adapter costs just a dollar, looks like a USB stick, same size, same speed, and you always have a spare memory card handy for your camera, phone or netbook. I've also found that to download stuff from, say, a camera, it's much faster to take out the SD card and connect it with a USB adapter, than to plug a USB cable into the camera.

  67. Re:And... more abuse of moderation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It used to be possible to to go to a user's comment page to find out if they had thousands of posts. It gave me a better idea if someone was talking just to hear themselves speak. I think it's not possible to check that anymore.

  68. Re:And... more abuse of moderation by dangitman · · Score: 1

    The question is whether flash drives are a commodity item. The answer is no, there is a vast difference between various flash drives and it is still necessary to do research before purchasing one if you don't want to get boned.

    And there are vast differences in the quality of vegetables. Does that mean that vegetables aren't a commodity? Of course not. I don't think you understand what the word means.

    --
    ... and then they built the supercollider.
  69. why use USB and not SD? by fotisaros · · Score: 1

    I don't know any person who still uses USB flash drives. Everyone I know, including I, uses SD or SDHC memory cards. These are readable on all devices (mobile phone, PDA, e-ink e-reader, netbook, laptop; oh and I don't own a PC!). USB drives can only be used with computers, not with e-readers or PDAs, so what's the use of them?

  70. Not exactly... by Minimalist360 · · Score: 1
    They're not in cereal boxes. From the linked page above:

    Requirements

    To receive your Kellogg's(tm) Flash Drive Wristband, send:

    • Completed Official Order Form
    • Either 8 STAR TREK Tokens or $7.99 plus 1 STAR TREK Token (includes shipping and handling) from specially marked packages of Kellogg's cereals (see product list below).
    • $7.99 check or money order (if necessary) for each item ordered, made payable to Kellogg's(tm) Flash Drive Wristband Offer.
  71. Take care in selecting a brand by mcohrs · · Score: 1

    Like floppies, we expect to retrieve our data now and next month. It happens so effortlessly and so reliably that we forget they can go bad. I along with many others, judging by the number of negative reviews, made the mistake of purchasing a Centron DataStickPro. Great design, neat metal case - totally unreliable. Called and emailed the company and when they actually responded, all they wanted, beside a lot of my time was the receipt. They claim to have a life time warranty, all I needed was the receipt. How many of you keep receipts for commodities like USB flash memory? I guess my point is to remember that these things do fail, like my judgment in buying DataStick.