Using Windows 7 RC? Pay Up Or Auto Shutdown Warned

CWmike writes with a warning that free preview copies of Windows 7 in the wild will start nagging users to pay up in a couple of weeks until ultimately shutting down the PC altogether in a month. "Microsoft unveiled the schedule for Windows 7 Release Candidate's retirement in May 2009, when it issued the early look to the public. At the time, it said Windows 7 RC would expire June 1, 2010. Before that date, however, users are to receive warnings of the impending end. Starting on Feb. 15, Windows 7 RC will display notices every few hours that the machine will periodically shut down beginning on March 1. As of March 1, PCs running Windows 7 RC will automatically shut down every two hours. Those shutdowns will come without warning."

Comments

Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

BFD. You didn't pay for it, and it's Microsoft. What do you expect?

Re:Really?

[pwnies]

I expected chairs to be thrown at me.

Re:Really?

[Corporate Troll]

What surprises me more is that people are still using the RC. Why would anyone do that? I've seen 7 on my dads alienware(*) laptop. Frankly, I wasn't impressed. Feels like Vista, but a bit faster. XP is not an option since he wants to use the full memory instead of being limited to 3.5Gig. At least it doesn't feel sluggish, but on an i7 I wouldn't expect that.

(*) My dad is a strange creature.... He buys the highest end laptop he can get/pay and then uses it for years.... The laptop the i7 replaced was a P-III 733MHz bought around 2000 or so... 10 years for a laptop.... Never seen anyone do that except my dad ;-)

Re:Really?

[TheRealGrogan]

I don't know, I think that if I'm told a beta is going to be valid until June, I wouldn't expect harassment 3 months before that time.

Re:Really?

[russ_allegro]

XP is not an option since he wants to use the full memory instead of being limited to 3.5Gig.

There is a 64 bit version of Windows XP that supports up to 128 Gig of RAM.

Re:Really?

[tlhIngan]

What surprises me more is that people are still using the RC. Why would anyone do that? I've seen 7 on my dads alienware(*) laptop. Frankly, I wasn't impressed. Feels like Vista, but a bit faster. XP is not an option since he wants to use the full memory instead of being limited to 3.5Gig. At least it doesn't feel sluggish, but on an i7 I wouldn't expect that.

(*) My dad is a strange creature.... He buys the highest end laptop he can get/pay and then uses it for years.... The laptop the i7 replaced was a P-III 733MHz bought around 2000 or so... 10 years for a laptop.... Never seen anyone do that except my dad ;-)

Not unusual. I do the same thing. It's a sore PITA to keep replacing computers - if you go white box, figuring out what parts you want in it is practically a full time job. If you go OEM, well, then you get stuck with parts you aren't happy with.

I gave up, and still run my nearly 10-year-old Celeron 533A (overclocked to 800MHz, back when it was the normal thing to do). I did pick up a couple of better computers along the way - a Mac Pro and a nice Core 2 Extreme laptop, but my old PC still runs fine. Especially since these days, any decent PC will last a really long time if you exclude gaming. CPUs aren't getting much faster quickly, ditto video cards... so even moderate gaming will work on decent high-end machines for years to come.

Really, I don't know who came up with the idea that PCs should be replaced annually or even every two years or so. Moving all that data gets to be a huge chore, as is having to dig up all your installation CDs and setup programs and registration keys, and other crap. If you're well organized, it's easy. But most people aren't, and most people don't backup at all. And I have a small pile of hard drives I've removed from old PCs that may have unrecovered data.

As for Windows 7 RC, it's actually a great solution to two problems. First are those who sold PCs with "Windows 7" prior to release to notify people they don't have a legitimate copy anymore. The second problem is when a PC gets installed with Windows 7 to evaluate, and is promptly forgotten about or even inventoried that it has Win7 RC. Well, hopefully when people get around to seeing that machine again, they'll realize that machine really ought to be re-imaged.

Re:Really?

[Corporate Troll]

Good luck finding drivers... That's the whole problem.

Re:Really?

[supernova_hq]

Did anyone ever get that version to run more than a week without going up in flames?

Re:Really?

[LordVader717]

What gets me annoyed is that it won't accept my authentic license keys, presumably because they're for the wrong version of language. That means I can't activate it without having to wipe the system and download and burn the installation media.

Re:Really?

[SenorToenails]

I had an install of that running from August 2005 to last week. I just dumped it for Fedora, but it was rock-solid once nvidia put out drivers that didn't suck.

Re:Really?

[sopssa]

And you just couldn't read a few words more to understand the whole thing and that it starts to shutdown every two hours on March? The original warning about that wasn't that it works until June, it was that on March it starts to shutdown every two hours, and finally on June it will stop booting. That's three months for you to take your files and settings and update. Stop being so freaking difficult.

I know it's the usual thing to badmouth MS on slashdot, but everyone knew it was going to expire and you would need to update.

Re:Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

"...But where are the flying chairs? I was promised flying chairs! I don't see any flying chairs! Why? Why? Why?"

Re:Really?

[eriklou]

No, I lit it on fire myself after I couldn't find jack for drivers.

Re:Really?

[Corporate Troll]

Don't misunderstand me... I took the stance of my dad too. I'm a tech dumpster diver, you know. My wifes P-IV 2.6GHz machine blew some caps, and I replaced it with an AMD 2600+ which I got from a dumpster. I used a P-III 600MHz up until January 2007, when I replace it with a Turion X2, but only because it was on sale because they couldn't sell it with Vista... (Back then Vista was the big promise)

By now, I just have Linux file server and my data isn't local anymore. I simply access it by sftp. I don't buy new PC's... At least not high performance ones. I don't need the performance. Last new PC I bought was an Atom 330 ION. Been disappointed with it, but that's probably because I ran Ubuntu on it.

Dumpster diving is an awesome hobby. My server is an AMD64, which I got for free. I give away PC's running Linux and people are happy to get them. :-)

My old desktop is still waiting for getting back in service..... It's a 2400+ AMD MP, and the only reason it just sits there is because it's louder than a starting jet ;-)

Re:Really?

[secolactico]

Nothing wrong with Windows 7, tho. I don't see why the reluctance to switch from XP.

I remember when XP came out and activation was the hot issue, everybody was saying how they would never consider switching from Windows 2000 to XP. Now it's the same story with Windows 7 and XP.

I have been using Win7 64 bits with no issues whatsoever and about the only software that I have found not to run was "Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines", but then again, that game was buggy even in the recommended OS.

UAC was not the pain I thought it was going to be and the control panel has been streamlined from the mess that was Vista's.

If you are going to buy a Windows OS, I see no reason to get XP over 7 unless you have hardware issues.

Re:Really?

[NervousNerd]

The only driver I couldn't find for my x64 system was a crappy KWorld TV tuner. Funny thing that it died only 3 months after buying it. Every other device I have on my computer has working drivers for it. I prefer the XP interface, but I like to use all the RAM I payed for (5.5GB), and XP x64 lets me have it both ways.

Re:Really?

[LonnieC]

I've managed to run it for a few years on a couple computers with no major issues. I've never had any issues finding drivers.

Re:Really?

[drsmithy]

CPUs aren't getting much faster quickly, ditto video cards [...]

Actually, they are, it's just that typical requirements are plateauing.

Really, I don't know who came up with the idea that PCs should be replaced annually or even every two years or so.

No-one outside of enthusiasts does this. Businesses typically work on a 3-5 year cycle, and home users frequently even longer.

Re:Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

> You didn't pay for it, and it's Microsoft. What do you expect?

It's Microsoft. What do you expect?

There, FTFY.

Re:Really?

[petermgreen]

XP is not an option since he wants to use the full memory instead of being limited to 3.5Gig.
There is always XP professional x64 edition ;)

Re:Really?

[petermgreen]

I'm running it fine on two computers in my office at the moment. One is a dell vostro 420 with 8GB of ram, the other is a custom built box* with 48GB of ram. Both have been running for considerably longer than a week.

I've also run it briefly on an optiplex 755 but ran into the issue of lack of support for the altera paralell port dongles I was using at the time.

Driver wise the custom build box was the easiest since both nvidia and intel officially support it. The dells were trickier to find drivers for (especially the vostro since despite supporting 8GB of ram dell doesn't officially support ANY 64-bit OS on it!) but once the drivers were found they seem to run fine (though I do run the SATA interfaces in compatability mode to avoid the need to mess arround with slipstreaming or F6 floppies).

* Intel SC5520SC motherboard, 2x 2.4GHz xeon 5500 series processors, intel SC5650WS case, some low end nvidia graphics card, two 1TB HDDs, some cheap sony DVD writer.

Re:Really?

[flappinbooger]

Dollars per year was probably about the same for him (or less) than buying 3 cheap-o laptops in 10 years...

Re:Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly! We were able to use it for free and try it out. I don't see the problem here. In fact, I actually bought a copy after trying it on my laptop. Quite an improvement over Vista! Of course I did get the discounted student copy for $30.

Re:Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

... That's three months for you to take your files and settings and update.

Actually, unless you can perform a backup in less than two hours from a cold boot, it's only a month now. Probably not an issue but something to keep in mind.

Re:Really?

[Dahan]

I'm still running 64-bit XP (although I'm thinking of upgrading to 7), and I didn't have any problems with finding drivers for my peripherals. nVidia graphics card, LSI SCSI, Areca RAID, Logitech webcam, Canon flatbed scanner, Fujitsu Scansnap document scanner, DViCo ATSC tuner--all work fine. (Printer works fine too, although it's a network printer that supports PostScript and PCL, so it'd work with anything.)

While drivers may have been hard to find back when 64-bit XP was first released, after Vista came out, manufacturers started making 64-bit drivers (and for most devices, Vista 64 drivers work for XP 64).

Re:Really?

[Green Salad]

I can vouch for home users on longer cycles...like maybe 10 years.

I just upgraded my wife's WinME box (still works fine for Excel'97 spreadsheets and surfing yahoo) with a new i3 core computer w/Win7 pre-installed.

To my amazement, WinME is still comparable in speed for her typical tasks (booting, opening office, opening browsers) takes about the same time with latest software running on latest hardware. (No, she's not a gamer unless, you count solitaire or Tetris) I had to delouse all the pre-installed "1 month free!" crap-ware.

After all that registration and setup work, turns out my wife likes Win7 but "hates" the new ribbon interface of Office2007 and wanted Office97 back. I can't find my Office97 CD, so I installed the latest Open Office hoping they didn't do the ribbon interface thing. OOO-Calc still offers a more familiar drop-down interface to my veteran Excel user than the new Excel. Hopefully OOO-Calc will leave the interface fairly stable as it moves forward.

Re:Really?

[ajlisows]

Probably not typical, but a friend of mine is still running the RC. Why? Here was the situation. His laptop was acting up last summer. Constantly shutting down. I told him I would reload it for him. It came with Vista. I backed his stuff up, wiped his partition clean, and started installing Vista from scratch. It simply wouldn't finish installing. I tried several times with the same result (and no, I'm not so stupid that I don't know how to install Windows). I thought it was probably a hard drive or RAM problem so I ran some tests on those. No problems. I don't remember who the manufacturer is but they did not have XP drivers on their site for that model. For kicks I tried installing the Windows 7 RC. Perfect.

So...I gave the laptop back to him and I told him when Windows 7 actually came out we would have to do something about it. It hasn't been high priority until now, especially because he says the computer is working better now than it ever has. Of course, he won't be too happy when if it starts shutting down. Thanks for the reminder, Slashdot. ;)

Re:Really?

[Meski]

Introducing - the flying chairs screensaver! A reprise of the flying toasters, but kitting a hey to get back to your work BSODs the computer.

Re:Really?

[anyGould]

Well, I've got no issues about the two-hour limit. The "no warning shutdown" strikes me as a bit of an asshat move, though. Seems like a good way to annoy the hell out of some people.

(I've purchased my copy of Win7, just waiting for Amazon to deliver.)

Re:Really?

[icebraining]

Hopefully OOO-Calc will leave the interface fairly stable as it moves forward.

If they switch to a ribbon or something like that, I'm sure there will be a patch or something like that to keep the old interface alive.

Re:Really?

[BlackHawk-666]

It's a good strategy. I used to upgrade my machine every 2 years or so - usually a piece by piece effort. Parts were above average in quality so were affordable and had a life or maybe 2 years. I got sick of how often I had to have my case open (remember the days of nasty beige cases with razor sharp steel edges, always left a little splash of blood inside those) and also Windows would play funny buggers sometimes over new pieces of hardware.

I switched to a 3 year, complete replacement, cycle a few years back. In practice though the second last machine I bought would still be plugging away after 6 years happily for most tasks but the latest games. My current system is at the 3 year mark now and still gives excellent performance - even for games. I expect a good 6 years plus out of it.

My laptop is a Mac Powerbook, the last of the PowerPC models. Unfortunately it was one of those from the bad batch of screens that Apple isn't fixing. I still use it every day, it still does everything it did when I bought it over 5 years ago, and it doesn't feel sluggish.

Quality gear lasts well.

Re:Really?

[Dmala]

I have to say, I missed the part about shutdowns starting in March, too. It seems kind of pointless, since a machine that shuts down every two hours is essentially useless. Might as well pull the plug in March and call it done.

Re:Really?

[zx-15]

I expect you to die Mr. Bond.

Re:Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Im probably going to have to do that with my netbook. I bought it last year when the n280 came out. now that msi and asus are making amd and ARM netbooks and tablets, I have no reason to use atom devices. Ill keep it till it breaks, but that will be probably in a year.

a student who is at school or work for 50 hours a week will wear even the hardiest computer out

Re:Really?

[Hal_Porter]

After all that registration and setup work, turns out my wife likes Win7 but "hates" the new ribbon interface of Office2007 and wanted Office97 back. I can't find my Office97 CD, so I installed the latest Open Office hoping they didn't do the ribbon interface thing. OOO-Calc still offers a more familiar drop-down interface to my veteran Excel user than the new Excel. Hopefully OOO-Calc will leave the interface fairly stable as it moves forward.

Office 2007 is some kind of sick joke like Vista. Particularly as Open Office is free and seems to open Word documents just fine. Like you I used Office 97 for ages but I don't have the CD to hand anymore. The machine I'm typing this on has Office 2007 on it but it's so irritating I used OOO instead.

Re:Really?

[Sir_Sri]

Only really rich enthusiasts replace every year, there is relatively little value in it. Jumping between generations, ATI 4K series to 5K series, (or nvidia 200 to 300 series), arguably core 2's to core i7's aren't terrible ideas. Expensive, but at least you're getting a significant jumps in capabilities, whether you care about those capabilities is another matter. But if you run what would be a new top of the line machine today, with up to date software, and then compare that to a 5 year old equivalent and the difference, even to the average end user is pretty stark.

The business cycle is driven by a combination of technical and basic user requirements. After 5 years your employees start to complain that the crappy machine you bought 5 years ago is extremely crappy compared even to the garbage they bought. And most computer components in my experience in a big business environment have a failure rate of around 50% at 6 years (which is usually capacitor failures but is rarely worth fixing on an IT guys end). On a home use basis where the machine is in a well cleaned area and off a lot you can do better than that... usually. You naturally want to start replacing before the 50% failure rate hits you. When one important guys computer doesn't work it's a mild nuisance, when 3 or 4 important guys are having computer trouble you better hope your resume is up to date.

Re:Really?

[war4peace]

If you are going to buy a Windows OS, I see no reason to get XP over 7 unless you have hardware issues.

Rephrasing: unless you, as a person, have hardware issues... in the attic.

Re:Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

1) This was said to happen in day 0 when beta was released.
2) It was also told when the beta expires.
3) Beta was meant for testing, and testing only.

But it's fun to feel social nerd chill by bashing Microsoft, isn't it?

Re:Really?

[rtb61]

Well perhaps they believe the original marketing that came out with XP, what are you saying the marketdroids were exaggerating and perhaps even telling out and out lies and XP is nowhere near as good as they claimed to be. Besides M$ was really hot on the idea of tying the software licences to hardware, so when hardware died you had to pay for those software licences all over again.

So why bother upgrading, you'll be forced to pay for additional software licences when the hardware fails anyhow (compulsory OEM sales), you would have to be a real schmuck to fall for that scam. So switch to windows 7, blah, take whatever software your forced to buy with the machine. Of course if you got screwed over with Vista instead of XP, well, why not reward M$ for selling you beta software pretending it is a final product.

Re:Really?

[Jedi Alec]

I've also found drivers for all of my hardware(well, except the printer gathering dust), but they're nowhere near the same level of quality as the drivers for Vista/7 that are out there for the same hardware.

Re:Really?

[masterzora]

I used to run Super Windows 64... I mean 64-bit XP, right up until the day I installed the 7 RC. Never had any issues with drivers, had very few software compatibility issues (all entirely with older games, not that 7 has been doing any better with them), and it generally ran like a dream. That said, 7 gave me a nice little performance boost (thank you hybrid SLI), so I'm happy with getting better performance on a shinier system.

Re:Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Most people use laptops and would therefore have to upgrade their entire computer anyways. You can also buy Windows 7 separately and install it on any computer that you want.

Re:Really?

[Angostura]

Well, if they are anything like me, they may be cheapskates running it in VirtualBox on a Mac. The truth is I very very occasionally need to use Windows - perhaps to install a bit of firmware on something that only has a Windows installer, or perhaps to check how something looks in IE8.

The fact that I won't be able to use the RC for extended periods seems like an extremely good deal from Microsoft, considering I haven't paid for it, and expected it to be disabled completely this summer.

Re:Really?

[Corporate Troll]

May be, but you do not know what his priorities were. One of them was high screen resolution (that P-III had 1600x1200!) The cheapo-o laptops usually don't get really good resolution. Besides, there is the whole "migration" part, copying over data, installing the applications he needs/wants... That's a real hassle.

Re:Really?

[plague3106]

Data migration should not be a problem at all. Either you have a server, and all your data is there. Or for the home user, there's Windows Easy Transfer. Run it on the old computer, it gathers up all your files, run it on the new computer, and all your files and settings are back. It might take a while if you have a lot of data, but its not like you need to sit there watching it.

Re:Really?

[mcgrew]

Starting on Feb. 15, Windows 7 RC will display notices every few hours that the machine will periodically shut down beginning on March 1. As of March 1, PCs running Windows 7 RC will automatically shut down every two hours.

Sounds like Windows Me!

Re:Really?

[mcgrew]

My dad is a strange creature.... He buys the highest end laptop he can get/pay and then uses it for years.... The laptop the i7 replaced was a P-III 733MHz bought around 2000 or so... 10 years for a laptop.... Never seen anyone do that except my dad

It's a geezer thing; if it ain't broke, don't fix it. As long as it suits his needs, why should he replace it?

Re:Really?

[Corporate Troll]

I'm like him :-) Personally, I rarely buy new computers anymore. Anything I need, I find in a dumpster. I was just saying so because this way of thinking often seems to be alien to slashdot users. My current desktop? 6 years old... Good enough for me.

Re:Really?

[that this is not und]

Businesses are probably going to start 'expecting' their employees to be adept in the new Microsoft Office version, though, so we'll all be forced that way. Or, those who work for that kind of business will, anyway. The question becomes: will those be the road-kill companies in the new economy? One would hope so. Chained as they are to Microsoft, who almost certainly is headed to the bottom.

I got an OEM Office 97 CD, which was tucked inside the User Manual, which has the offical 'seal of approval' and an OEM CD key, at Goodwill a few weeks ago. Goodwill treated it as a paperback book, so it cost me 69 cents.

Re:Really?

[Corporate Troll]

It might take a while if you have a lot of data

That is exactly the problem. It simply takes a lot of time. It is not a "problem" per say, but if you change machines often, it's wasted time.

We do have a server, but it only got a 20Gig HD and the consensus is to keep only extremely important files on them.

Re:Really?

[mr_gorkajuice]

You have only yourself to blame for missing it. It was NOT hidden in a obscure paragraph in tiny letters.
Truth be told, 3 months of "harassment" is highly preferable to simply having your PC intentionally bricked from one day to the next.
Classic "damned if you do, damned if you don't". I can hear /. screaming even louder that M$ intentionally made every fucking thing on your PC entirely unavailable without any warning what-so-ever.

Re:Really?

[mcgrew]

I just bought the first whole computer since 1987, a laptop. Paid twenty bucks for it, it needs a new hard drive and battery.

Since buying the (used) computer in 1987 I never bought anything but parts.

Re:Really?

[TheLink]

> It seems kind of pointless, since a machine that shuts down every two hours is essentially useless. Might as well pull the plug in March and call it done.

You don't understand the Windows market. It's big and diverse.

So there'll still be people using it like that, and then kicking up a big fuss when it totally stops working.

Re:Really?

[plague3106]

Bah. Unless you're changing machines weekly, its a non-issue. Even every six months would seem acceptable.. but if you're changing machines quickly, a server is likely in order.

A server with only 20GB of space is in serious need of a new HD. Really, its trivially easy an inexpensive; even the low end crap desktops we sell come with 100GB drives.

Re:Really?

[Corporate Troll]

That machine is SCSI based. Find me cheap SCSI disks and I'll upgrade it.

Re:Really?

[secolactico]

and XP is nowhere near as good as they claimed to be.

Actually, XP is one of the better products released by MS. It was the first MS product I bought and never regretted it. As my hardware was upgraded (new motherbard, new memory, more hdd, etc) I simply reinstalled and never had any issue with activation.

Now I've moved on to Windows 7 and I see nothing in it that makes it worse than XP and several features that makes it better (its firewall, for example, is miles ahead of the one that came with XP SP2).

Now, why would you bother upgrading if you are happy with XP? No reason, really. Eventually, tho, it will reach its EOL and MS will stop providing patches and bugfixes.

Besides M$ was really hot on the idea of tying the software licences to hardware, so when hardware died you had to pay for those software licences all over again.

Well, I wouldn't put that past MS (or any other corp for that matter), after all, they've been toying with the whole "software as a service" for a bit now, but I've still haven't seen them rent Word on a monthly basis. Can you provide a link to the "hardware license" thing?

So, to make my point short, you don't have to go with Windows 7 or Microsoft at all. But if you want to purchase an OS, I see no advantage to buying XP instead of 7.

Without warning?

[mythosaz]

Uh, it's going to notify you... ...that's warning.

Re:Without warning?

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, it's going to notify you... ...that's warning.

That is actually an improvement over normal Windows operations. Typically, in my experience, Windows will shutdown on it's own without any warning!

Yay! Microsoft is improving!! :D

(hurray for "upside" being my captcha)

Re:Without warning?

[recoiledsnake]

True, the warning will start Feb 15h, and Microsoft doesn't release security updates for the Windows 7 RC code, so we're ALL better off to see these machines change to a different OS. The previews of Windows 7 were aimed at a tech savvy audience and hence I do not see any issue... except typical Slashdot "LOL M$ SUX WHATEVER IT DOES" bullshit.

Re:Without warning?

[gstoddart]

Uh, it's going to notify you... ...that's warning.

Ever seen a button that says "Your Machine Will Shut Down Now" that only has an "OK" as an option, and takes the focus for the entire machine so you can't do anything else like save your work?

That's not so much in the way of warning. Well, inasmuch as the Blue Screen of Death was a "warning".

Cheers

Re:Without warning?

[JaredOfEuropa]

If you're not going to read the article, at least glance at the summary:

Starting on Feb. 15, Windows 7 RC will display notices every few hours that the machine will periodically shut down beginning on March 1

So, you get a 15 day advance warning for the impending shutdowns. Also, Microsoft has mentioned earlier, on several occasions, that this was eventually going to happen with the RC version. It's only fair: you can try it for free, but you have to pay to keep using it. Not different from any other nagware.

Re:Without warning?

[HouseOfMisterE]

True, the warning will start Feb 15h, and Microsoft doesn't release security updates for the Windows 7 RC code.../p>

Yes, Microsoft does currently release security updates for the RC. I have it installed on a spare drive in a PC, and it updates on the rare times that I boot into that OS.

Re:Without warning?

[RobVB]

There's also the giant Windows and Microsoft logos everywhere. If that doesn't alarm you...

Re:Without warning?

[recoiledsnake]

If you're not going to read the article, at least glance at the summary:

Starting on Feb. 15, Windows 7 RC will display notices every few hours that the machine will periodically shut down beginning on March 1

So, you get a 15 day advance warning for the impending shutdowns. Also, Microsoft has mentioned earlier, on several occasions, that this was eventually going to happen with the RC version. It's only fair: you can try it for free, but you have to pay to keep using it. Not different from any other nagware.

Not only that, it's not regular shareware or trialware, it was specifically aimed at tech savvy tinkerers that fiddle with OS installs most of who already must have moved on to the RTM, Ubuntu or XP. Hence it's not like it's being sprung as a surprise.

Re:Without warning?

[Tim C]

Not only that, but it was made perfectly clear when you received the key for it. This shouldn't be a surprise for anyone who has a legitimate copy of the RC.

Re:Without warning?

[gstoddart]

If you're not going to read the article, at least glance at the summary:

Well, where would the fun be in that? And, more seriously, the article seems to say

To avoid any data loss, I suggest making plans to move to a released version of Windows 7 before the automatic shutdowns start. During these shutdowns, your work will not be saved.

Meaning, I think, you'll get a warning that you might get a shutdown at some point. But, when the shutdown happens, it might come without a more imminent warning. The linked MS KB article supports that while you will get scheduled warnings, when the actual shutdown happens "When the computer restarts, your work will not be saved" -- the reboot will simply happen and kill whatever you're working on.

I have seen a dialog box that says "Reboot now?" with only "OK" and full modal focus. It was evil (and I'm not even saying it was an MS dialog box, since I can't remember).

I'm sure come June 1 or whatever the final cut-off date is, it will be far less polite about it.

Truthfully, I have no qualms about MS shutting down trial versions. A friend of mine has raved so much about Windows 7 I've been weighing the option of upgrading my Vista box -- but I've actually been really happy with my Vista experience, and I don't want to go through the bother of the upgrade/migration process.

Cheers

Re:Without warning?

[zippthorne]

Not to mention that it was never released as anything but temporary, or the two weeks of "That thing you're not paying for isn't the real product" camp over the summer.

Re:Without warning?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why are you doing work on a test OS?

Re:Without warning?

[recoiledsnake]

The dialog box you're talking about comes when you kill a critical server or via the 'shutdown' or 'shutdown -r' command in an elevated prompt. Anyway, it's better that it automagically shuts down, so that people dont' simply reboot and continue working, the less unsupported vulnerable OSes in the wild, the better for us.

Re:Without warning?

[street struttin']

Uh, it's going to notify you... ...that's warning.

Yes, but it will notify you without warning.

Re:Without warning?

[Arthur Grumbine]

At first I was interested by your multiple points (if slightly redundant) that you made in this article, but on examining your comment history (just over the last month) it seems increasingly likely that you are a Microsoft shill, or just an extremely subtle and extremely fanatical fanboi. Attempts to malign Linux devs, and criticizing everything from Apple wouldn't seem so conspicuous if you were equally critical of anything Microsoft produces, instead of staunchly defending every product/action they make/take.

I hope this gets modded up so others will peruse your comments and make their own judgments about you. I suspect that most major tech companies have at least a shill or two on /. (or maybe I'm just crazy-cynical) to influence the the tech communities opinion of them, but I don't believe that shills contribute anything productive to the community/discussion and I believe that the other /.ers should be made aware of potential shills to provide them with some perspective on the poster's bias.

I hope I'm not mislabeling you, but the evidence really does seem to be very clear.

Re:Without warning?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not much different then your "Quit picking on teh microsofts." In fact you guys use the M$ more then the Anti-Microsoft crowd these days.

Re:Without warning?

[noidentity]

Uh, it's going to notify you... ...that's warning.

Yes, but it will notify you without warning.

This article serves as a warning that you will be notified.

Re:Without warning?

[mystikkman]

They will stop supporting it after June 1st, so the point still stands.

Re:Without warning?

[mystikkman]

Ahh, lets attack the messenger instead of the message. Lets call anyone posting anything that can be construed as pro MS a paid shill and hound them out so that we can all revel in our circle jerk. Anything not conforming must go. No wonder many sane non-haters of MS have already left this place.

Re:Without warning?

[DAldredge]

Does the fact that I like Microsoft products make me a shill as well?

Re:Without warning?

[Arthur Grumbine]

Does the fact that I like Microsoft products make me a shill as well?

No more than it makes me one. I don't know why you are lashing out at me, I just raised what I felt (upon stumbling across his comments) was a valid suspicion.

I'm not a fanboi of any operating system, although Android looks like fun. I got frustrated and gave up with Ubuntu (audio and Firefox frustrations) and returned to XP, and am looking forward to having Windows 7 on my next desktop build, and I don't have enough experience with OSX to have an informed opinion.

I'm going to assume the best, but it is interesting that moderation for my original post is currently 2/3 Flamebait or Overrated and 1/3 Interesting. I really don't understand how what I said could be honestly moderated as Flamebait.

Re:Without warning?

[socsoc]

The phrase wasn't that they will stop providing updates, it was that MS doesn't release security updates for the Windows 7 RC code. So the point is still incorrect.

Re:Without warning?

[dcam]

I think we need a pre-meeting meeting to plan the meeting. Possibly a pre-pre-meeting to plan the pre-meeting to plan the pre-meeting.

Re:Without warning?

[RMS Eats Toejam]

I too, defend Microsoft products. Why? Simply because I hate the god damn Linux using cock suckers who frequent this and other tech related websites. Linux zealots are so repulsive that I'm willing to use my free time in defense of a company that I'm not a fan of for absolutely free. You say the evidence is clear? You know, some might think the world is dark and smells like shit. Are they mislabeling the world? No, they simply have their head up their ass.

Re:Without warning?

[Arthur Grumbine]

Ahh, lets attack the messenger instead of the message. Lets call anyone posting anything that can be construed as pro MS a paid shill and hound them out so that we can all revel in our circle jerk. Anything not conforming must go. No wonder many sane non-haters of MS have already left this place.

Dude, seriously? I was pointing out an observation that led to a suspicion that I felt would be good for the /. community to vet. Did you not catch the first sentence of my post where I mentioned that I was interested in the points he made.

I'm sorry, though, if you don't believe that knowing the potentially extreme bias of a messenger is useful for having productive discussion. I think of it kind of like if we were in a book club, discussing our favorite literature, and there was paid shills harping on the benefits of their publisher's books, while picking apart all flaws in their competitors books. Everything they say may be true, but it seems like there should be a kind of assumption of honesty\fairness amongst the participants of a discussion, without having to constantly suspect ulterior motives.

Re:Without warning?

[selven]

Please remove your post immediately or I'll send a letter telling you to do the same, under the threat of receiving a DMCA takedown letter.

THAT's notifying.

Re:Without warning?

[Anonymous Coward]

You, sir, win three internets.

Re:Without warning?

[mystikkman]

Liking books is subjective, whereas (s)he seems to be stating objective stuff here. Care to point out any faults in his/her post you were replying to or the reasoning? Looks like you couldn't and thus were raking up shit to discredit him/her.

Re:Without warning?

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

I know that this kind of approach doesn't work against conspiracy theorists, but what the hell...

Think about this for a moment. Think about how big Microsoft is. Think about how much money they rake in from involuntary sales of windows. Think about how many individuals and businesses there are that are stuck with MS products. Think about how many people worldwide they sell to. Think about how much marketing bang-for-your-buck they expect.

Now consider the number of people on the net, the number of people using slashdot. Even if they deemed it worth the money to pay someone to shill on slashdot, they wouldn't pay nearly the number of people who actually defend Microsoft during these MS-bashing sessions on slashdot. The chances of you finding an MS shill are actually extremely small.

However, I don't even think they would bother shilling on slashdot. It's far easier, cheaper, and more effective, to donate to the news sources, and get them to make puff pieces on their new products. It has the advantage of simultaneously reaching slashdot and every other tech-based news aggregation site.

Loosen up dude. They're not out to get you.

Re:Without warning?

[icebraining]

I gave up on Ubuntu before I installed it :P

But I like Debian and Arch. LFS was fun too, as an experiment.

Re:Without warning?

[Arthur Grumbine]

I know that this kind of approach doesn't work against conspiracy theorists, but what the hell...

...

Loosen up dude. They're not out to get you.

Nice ad hominem. This is me talking about real business, not how you imagine you would run a multibillion dollar corporation:

You don't believe it's worth Google, Apple, Microsoft, Adobe, Sun, etc. time to astroturf/advocate at the most popular tech news & discussion website in the world (I don't consider what Digg does "discussion")? Do you honestly believe major multinational companies only advertise using the most cost effective method, and disregard all other methods? How many developers do MS, Apple, Google et al employ?

Say you pay 5 developers that are working @ $30/hr (more than entry level) to post on Slashdot for 2 hrs every day. That's $300/day, a little over $100K a year to have your products/services defended and your competitors' products/customers criticized and mocked - on the most influential open forum for techies. 10 hours of total posting a day is pretty extreme, though, but compared to the marketing budgets of the aforementioned companies it is a drop in the bucket. And they each have a warehouse full of buckets.

I would suspect that they all also have some journalists, product reviewers, etc. in their pockets, like you mention. But, just because it's most efficient/profitable for Apple to sell it's products online, doesn't mean it's not profitable to also set up retail stores. Ditto for Microsoft. Every major corporation explores myriad outlets for their advertising/marketing/PR efforts.

Re:Without warning?

[hairyfeet]

Uhhhh...excuse me? Mr. paranoid dude? Yeah, I just went over that comment history you posted, and it seems to be talking mostly about when the RC will start shutting down and stuff. What exactly did he post that has you convinced the guy maybe a shill? I didn't really see any pro or con posts in that link. I've usually found shills are easy to spot, as they post along the lines of "boy isn't product x just the greatest thing since sliced bread!" and other lines that sound like dialog from a bad commercial.

So would you mind pointing out this "potentially extreme bias of a messenger" (your words) so we can all see what has ruffled your feathers? Because from rereading his posts they don't even sound really fanboyish to me, especially when you compare them to the "LOL Windblowz" or "Macfags" or "Lunix Sux" posts we get around here waaaaay too often.

Re:Without warning?

[hairyfeet]

Dude, gotta say I laughed at your UID, but if you are really gonna use that ID you should really link to the video in your sig for the full effect. When I first heard that story I thought it had to be bullshit, but.....nope! there he is in all his glory, pulling off his fricking socks in the middle of a lecture no less, and fricking munching on toe cheese.

As for Win7 RC, they gave it to you free for a year, you can get HP for around $84 on newegg for the upgrade or $104 for system builders, so it isn't like it is gonna break the bank if you want to keep it. if you don't want to shell out the cash put back on whatever was originally there and go about your business. Nobody is putting a gun to your head to buy Win7, just as nobody forced you to use an RC where they told you upfront that this would happen.

I'm personally glad they did this, as the RC let me see how my PC would run Win7 in real world tests and gave me a chance to try before I bought. I liked it so I bought, along with the family pack for the rest of the fam. Head and shoulders above Vista and I've found it to be much more "kid proof" than XP was.

Re:Without warning?

[Arthur Grumbine]

What you are describing are not shills, but caricatures of shills. If I was to pay someone to astroturf on a site that rewards (usually) rational discussion, I would make sure to instruct them not to just troll, but to present rational, but one-sided, arguments to promote my product/service, while using satire/sarcasm/witticisms to denigrate my competitors/opposition. If you scroll down to the bottom of the page of comments, and click on the "363 more" button a couple times it adds more and more comments from further back in time. Almost all his comments are defending a Microsoft product or action, or attacking Apple/Linux/FOSS. The funny part is - I agree with him frequently in his defense of MS stuff, as well as some of his criticisms of FOSS and Apple. He just seems too extreme to be legitimate and he doesn't seem to talk about anything else.

Check it out, man, and let me know what you think.

Re:Without warning?

[PixetaledPikachu]

Uh, it's going to notify you... ...that's warning.

Yes, but it will notify you without warning.

This article serves as a warning that you will be notified.

and the post above is the notification that this article is a warning

Re:Without warning?

[hairyfeet]

Uhhh...I click on that "363 more" and get my posts, so is that like a subscriber thing? But considering that the few posts he has on the one page I can read has at least one wrong against MSFT (Win7 RC is stated by him not to get updates when in fact it does until June when it ends) if he is shilling they really should get their money back, because he isn't very good at it.

So I'm sorry, but all I can see is the one page and from that single page he looks pretty mild. And I can't really judge how he talks about OSX/Linux since the only posts on that one page are posts from this discussion, so there really isn't anything for me to judge by one way or another. Sorry.

Re:Without warning?

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

At first I was interested by your multiple points (if slightly redundant) that you made in this article, but on examining your comment history [slashdot.org] (just over the last month) it seems increasingly likely that you are a Microsoft shill

I know that this kind of approach doesn't work against conspiracy theorists, but what the hell...

...

Loosen up dude. They're not out to get you.

Nice ad hominem.

Learned from the master.

This is me talking about real business, not how you imagine you would run a multibillion dollar corporation

Hmm. Perhaps this is just my starry-eyed idealism talking, but I could have sworn that corporations were run purely for profit.

You don't believe it's worth Google, Apple, Microsoft, Adobe, Sun, etc. time to astroturf/advocate at the most popular tech news & discussion website in the world [alexa.com] (I don't consider what Digg does "discussion")?

No, I don't! We could be shiniest advertising turd in the jewellery shop, but that doesn't make it a good strategy.

Do you honestly believe major multinational companies only advertise using the most cost effective method, and disregard all other methods?

No, but I think they take better opportunities when they come along. For example, as I already mentioned, going after the many news aggregators is fundamentally stupid when they could be going after the news sources. And they do. Constantly. Any astroturfing on specific sites, even the most popular one, would be largely redundant.

How many developers do MS, Apple, Google et al employ?

Roughly speaking, exactly as many as they need to develop their code, no more, no less. They have marketing guys for exactly that: marketing. Developers are good for developing and marketers are good for marketing. And they have far better usages for their manpower.

Say you pay 5 developers that are working @ $30/hr (more than entry level) to post on Slashdot for 2 hrs every day. That's $300/day, a little over $100K a year to have your products/services defended and your competitors' products/customers criticized and mocked - on the most influential open forum for techies.

On a 24 hour news aggregator, with a fairly extensive population of people who are anti-MS, with an even more extensive population of people who cry "corporate shill!" at the drop of an only semi-vitriolic word, and a moderation system that only promotes comments in line with the /. groupthink, 2 hours a day of someone posting here is going to do fuck all.

Look at us here. How many discussions do you actually see where a person dramatically (or even slightly) changes their mind? A positive post about MS brings about an equal if not greater measure of posts slamming MS, and sometimes even deservedly.

It doesn't make any sense. Compare this to paying perhaps a grand or two to some of the more open news sites. Perhaps send them an early beta/prototype, a wad of cash, and enough hype to drown a small fishing village. Do that to a few sites a few times a year, and it might cost you half a million at the most, and you will get straight through to not only /., but every other news aggregator, and those who actually RTFAs themselves. It may cost more (it may also cost less; I don't know), but it actually does something positive for them, unlike trying to establish a presence here.

But, just because it's most efficient/profitable for Apple to sell it's products online, doesn't mean it's not profitable to also set up retail stores.

I see your point, but retail and online services are largely different markets. There is some overlap, but there's enough people w

Re:Without warning?

[Anonymous Coward]

The "without warning" part is referring to when the machine shuts down ever two hours. So it will just shutdown without warning you first, so if your going to read it - try to understand it!

Re:Without warning?

[Arthur Grumbine]

I guess we are at an impasse regarding the likelihood that major corporations would care to influence the discussions here on /.

While I agree with you about the general stubbornness of /. posters (guilty as charged, myself), I feel that the influence that could be had amongst the undecided (on any given topic) viewers/lurkers would be worth the effort.

Take this discussion of ours, for instance. Although you have not changed my mind, you have produced reasonable points, that when read by others will sway them to your conclusion (i.e. "it's silly to believe there are corporate shills on Slashdot"). Likewise for other undecided readers who may be convinced, partially or wholly, by my points. I know that my opinions have been strongly influenced by /. discussions that I have read (but not participated in) over the years, even if only on topics that I did not already have an opinion/view. Perhaps this is not the case for you.

The thing is, whether or not there are corporate shills on /. is a matter of fact - we may never know what that fact is, but there either are or there aren't. If there aren't then I am doing a disservice by encouraging an overly suspicious mentality. While if there are, your arguments may lead others to be less critical of posters' motives than is appropriate.

One final counterpoint to your last statement about shilling + buying articles being redundant, and a waste of money. I would propose a parallel, in politics, with town hall meetings. Although the greatest effect a politician would have would be to control the moderator, it seems like having shills in the audience also helps to sway public opinion, especially when the supporting voices seem to come from the local community itself.

Similarly, (as you have shown by your own opinions on the matter) many /.ers are more wary of an agenda behind a news source than they are of an agenda behind an individual post from a regular user.

Re:Without warning?

[Arthur Grumbine]

I should have been more clear - you have to click on "xxx more" at the bottom of his user page. You can reach his user page by clicking on his name.

Re:Without warning?

[hairyfeet]

I tried that with your UID, since I can no longer find the original post and....nope, same thing. I can only read a single page of posts before being sent to my page. Like I said maybe it is a subscriber thing? I know they won't let you search your own posts past a certain number without being a subscriber.

Re:Without warning?

[Anonymous Coward]

You get a "More Comments" link on your user page and on other users' pages.

Re:Without warning?

[Arthur Grumbine]

According to the AC, here, it is a subscriber feature. An alternative would be to Google "recoiledsnake site:slashdot.org" without the quotes, of course. Here it is for you.

Re:Without warning?

[hydroponx]

Yea, those that are bothered by this will simply roll their clocks back to 2009, if that doesn't work it's a matter of finding the registry key or other config setting that affects this. Worst case, and hack the exe so that it thinks it shutdown. Best case, people with either go back to XP or buy 7.

Re:Without warning?

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

I know that my opinions have been strongly influenced by /. discussions that I have read (but not participated in) over the years, even if only on topics that I did not already have an opinion/view. Perhaps this is not the case for you.

I was more influenced during my teens, when I first started posting. Nowadays, it's extremely rare for something on slashdot to convince me of anything. It usually takes a piece of fundamentally important new information on the subject, but even then, it's not a given.

Any convincing also takes time. Lots and lots of time. It's not usually enough to see it once or twice from one or two people. It usually takes many people many days (weeks or even months) to actually make a dent in my opinions. There also needs to be some form of a consensus among high rated comments, otherwise people just pepper the discussion with retorts, some of which actually stick.

So, for a company to actually make dent in my opinion, they would have to essentially hijack the moderation system and create several accounts saying essentially the same thing. The /. groupthink may be a weakness of /., but it also is a highly effective shield against such influences.

The thing is, whether or not there are corporate shills on /. is a matter of fact - we may never know what that fact is, but there either are or there aren't. If there aren't then I am doing a disservice by encouraging an overly suspicious mentality. While if there are, your arguments may lead others to be less critical of posters' motives than is appropriate.

By the same logic, we should abide by the tenets of every single religion, in case one of them happens to be true. If you do, and none are right, then you've lead a slightly harder life. If you don't, and one is right, then you may burn in agony for an eternity/be struck down by a higher power/reincarnate as a tapeworm/etc.

Besides, I actually have a larger beef with the paranoia about shills that is so common here. Most of the time, it seems it's used as a way of discrediting a valid opinion, without actually refuting it with reason or evidence. Essentially, it is just another ad hominem argument. And, as one of those people who thinks that certain favourite corporate punching bags don't deserve the flak they get (it's not just MS), I often run into problems with this mentality.

It actually gets me thinking: what exactly is the problem we have with shills? It seems we have some kind of anxiety about rhetoric, like it's going to somehow overwhelm our core principles and brainwash us. The worst they can do is say something wrong, so that we have to refute (and possibly ridicule). They might even say something right!

It all comes back to how apt /. is for convincing people. A shill would just become yet another talking head in a line-up of thousands. Probably not a very popular one at that.

One final counterpoint to your last statement about shilling + buying articles being redundant, and a waste of money. I would propose a parallel, in politics, with town hall meetings. Although the greatest effect a politician would have would be to control the moderator, it seems like having shills in the audience also helps to sway public opinion, especially when the supporting voices seem to come from the local community itself.

Yeah, fair enough. I'll concede that point.

Similarly, (as you have shown by your own opinions on the matter) many /.ers are more wary of an agenda behind a news source than they are of an agenda behind an individual post from a regular user.

Everyone has an agenda. That's constantly at the back of my mind whenever reading slashdot. It's uncommon to see a post here which even strives for some kind of unbiased truth, and it's rare not see the posters' biases clearly displayed even when they try to eliminate them. In terms of swaying people's grasp on the "truth", I hardly see how a shill could be worse.

..so?

[monoi]

Unless they're also going to disable booting an Ubuntu install DVD, I don't see how anyone could have a problem with this. Windows is a commercial product. If you don't want to pay for it, use one of the entirely credible free alternatives.

Re:..so?

[Foredecker]

Mod parent up please....

Re:..so?

[recoiledsnake]

Hey, it's our M$ bashing article of the day, I've been waiting all day for a nice 'M$' bash post full of venom and vitriole, please don't rain on the parade! LOL M$ SUX!

Re:..so?

[Anonymous Coward]

I installed 5 pirated Win7 Ultimate systems for family and friends. :)

Only n00bs are still on the RC.

Re:..so?

[jmorris42]

> Windows is a commercial product.

Exactly right. Bootleg Windows is the #1 competition to Linux. So if ya want to bring about "The Year of the Linux Desktop" helping Microsoft turn the screws on unlicensed installs is probably the most productive thing a non-coder can do. Especially outside the US.

Re:..so?

[__aaclcg7560]

But I haven't finished bashing Apple yet!

NOTE: Since multitasking is disabled in iPhone/iPad, I can only bash one evil empire at a time.

Re:..so?

[MichaelSmith]

Why does this commercial product work at all without payment?

Re:..so?

[mikerubin]

Windows 35?

Re:..so?

[Rogerborg]

Well, the first one is always free.

Re:..so?

[mikerubin]

I forgot to mention that was *IAA math

Re:..so?

[Hellswaters]

Why does this commercial product work at all without payment?

Its the release client, mostly a demo product, for people to try it before the retail version is released, so that they could go and buy it knowing that is better than Vista

Re:..so?

[Kpau]

Everyone who got an RC knows this (or should). DuH? It was a great free ride while it lasted. My game machine upgrade will include a win7 OS. My work machine will continue as an Ubuntu critter... so it goes :)

Re:..so?

[recoiledsnake]

Well, atleast the Apple bashing has some legitimacy... no multitasking and no political or offensive apps, whereas this post is devoid of any juicy bashing material.

Re:..so?

[shutdown -p now]

Because it's a trial version. Contrary to other replies, this isn't particularly relevant to it being a non-final version, except that all non-final releases are legally trial versions. However, you can just as well get a 90-day trial version of Windows 7 Enterprise final version for free (and if you just want to try it, that's what you really should use, rather than RC).

Re:..so?

[supernova_hq]

Better hurry before they disable the Apple-bashing on your iPhone/iPad!

Re:..so?

[westlake]

So if ya want to bring about "The Year of the Linux Desktop" helping Microsoft turn the screws on unlicensed installs is probably the most productive thing a non-coder can do. Especially outside the US.

Three stories the geek will studiously ignore:

Microsoft revealed that it had sold over 60 million Windows 7 licenses through the second quarter. This not only made it a record quarter for Windows units in general, but it makes Windows 7 the fastest selling operating system in history. Windows 7 leads the way to record quarter for Microsoft [Jan 28]

Apple's Aug. 28 release of its Snow Leopard software resulted in a boost of 1 point to 65 percent in the first week. Through the end of the year, the increase was 6.9 percent.
The percentage of customers satisfied with Microsoft reached 73 percent on Dec. 31, the highest since YouGov started surveying in 2007. Microsoft's reputation is benefiting from the positively reviewed Windows 7, after some customers held off personal-computer purchases to avoid the product's predecessor, Vista, said Matt Rosoff, an analyst at Kirkland, Washington- based Directions on Microsoft.
"People are saying, 'Okay, Microsoft got its mojo back,'" he said. "People who were thinking about buying a new PC are more likely to do so now. You'll see slightly better sales." Rosoff said the boost is probably also due to the June release of Microsoft's overhauled Bing Internet search engine.
  Microsoft Outpaces Apple in Customer Satisfaction: Chart of Day [Feb 1]

For the last day in January Windows 7 Breaks 10% in Daily Tracking. Global Market Share Statistics [Feb 1]

_____

Highest Windows 7 Usage in U.S. - Redmond Area
Surprise! The Redmond, WA area has the highest usage share of Windows 7 in the U.S. Within the actual city of Redmond, 42% of internet users are on Windows 7. Market Share By Postal Code [Feb 1]

Re:..so?

[__aaclcg7560]

I have no idea what you're talking about. Steve Jobs is better than God. These magic mushrooms from Apple are so awesome.

Re:..so?

[acalltoreason]

> Exactly right. Bootleg Windows is the #1 competition to Linux. So if ya want to bring about "The Year of the Linux Desktop" helping Microsoft turn the screws on unlicensed installs is probably the most productive thing a non-coder can do. Especially outside the US.

I sincerely doubt that Linux will, in the near future, become mainstream like Windows. Linux is too difficult for the average computer user to use.

Re:..so?

[Blakey Rat]

This isn't even bootleg Windows. This was the free Windows 7 preview that Microsoft released last year. You know, the one they said from day one would be disabled in March? In extremely obvious huge text on the website you downloaded it from? That Windows.

Re:..so?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is "entirely credible free alternative" a Freudian slip or did you mean entirely free credible alternatives?

Re:..so?

[Anonymous Coward]

Free or not, this disturbs me. Many things have disturbed me as of late. When the computer controls YOU, it ceases to become a "personal" computer. I've had this problem with Windows. Forcing reboots after updates (Yes I know that can be disabled, but I shouldn't have to edit an obscure setting). As a result, I don't run code any more from companies that force me to do what THEY want.

Re:..so?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5327539/Windows_7_Ultimate_7600_RTM_x86

Re:..so?

[jmorris42]

> Three stories the geek will studiously ignore:

We don't ignore them, we understand them to be unimportant. Please take your astroturf campaign somewhere people won't call you out and laugh.

> Microsoft revealed that it had sold over 60 million Windows 7 licenses through the second quarter.

So what? Just means that after a couple of YEARS of pent up demand because of the Vista fiasco retailers had a decent Xmas selling season for PCs despite the generally crappy economy. Almost none of those 7 licenses were actual retail sales in the normal meaning of the word. Yes, we all understand the Microsoft tax still exists despite multiple consent decrees so every PC sale is also a Windows sale. But those would have been Vista sales a year ago and XP before that. Hell, about half the netbooks this Xmas were still XP. And to be able to show a increase in revenue they had to jack the OEM pricing on 7 oretty steep. That is a longterm opportunity for the Penguin Army.

> Apple's Aug. 28 release of its Snow Leopard...

Meh. At least most Apple users DO upgrade when a new OS ships instead of waiting for their next system purchase to get it rammed down their throat whether they want/like it or not. But Apple is just a niche player and their business model requires them to remain a niche player. Unlike His Steveness who only aspires to be a cult leader, we want "World Domination"

> For the last day in January Windows 7 Breaks 10% in Daily Tracking.

You say that like you guys in Redmond are proud of it or something. It is a sign of a saturated market. Odds are over half of that 10% was people getting a new machine for Xmas because the penetration numbers for 7 before that was still fairly small. Compare and contrast to Win95's release and deployment rate. That was a product people really wanted enough to suffer through the pain of upgrading.

Windows 7 (Professional 64bit) is actually pretty good, I got it forcefed on a new laptop (but it runs F12 99% of the time) and it mostly works. Both W7 and Fedora screw up some aspects of hot docking, each failing to deal with the external display having a different resolution in different ways. W7 blows up Firefox; every launch throws three error dialogs before settling down and running. F12 instead throws the abrt-tool every time FF closes. Meh, a pox on em all. Bottom line, after seeing W7 it is OK as far as Windows goes. I ordered the XP restore disc just in case I decided W7 blows goats but didn't end up using it. Would I upgrade a working Windows XP PC to it? Why? I can't answer that question and I'd bet you can't either. Since Vista has had some service pack love I'm not even certain I'd recommend spending good money taking an otherwise working Vista install up to 7.

Re:..so?

[jmorris42]

> I sincerely doubt that Linux will, in the near future, become mainstream like Windows. Linux is too difficult for the average computer user to use.

Pure FUD.

If you said Linux is too difficult for the average computer user to INSTALL I'd have replied that you are about two years behind the times. But even that argument is falling into history. Take a dozen users, give half Windows 7 install DVDs and the other half a mix of current desktop oriented Linux install media and I'd bet money that at any point in the release cycles you will get three of the Linux installs done within 10% +/- of the install of Windows 7 and more hardware will work 'out of the box.'

Now as for USE being harder? Bullcrap. It is a GUI desktop. Our public lab has had the general public using a Linux based desktop for over a decade now. Yes everything has been carefully adjusted so all of the hardware support issues are fixed, codecs and plugins have been preinstalled and all of the admin stuff has been done for them. Exactly as we would have done with a Windows based computer lab. But average rural library patrons have been browsing the Internet and editing documents on Linux here for long enough I can reject the "too difficult for the average user" FUD as exactly that. We give them individual NIS/NFS served persistent accounts with zero 'lockdown' and they have adapted to it nicely. We don't disable the USB ports and we give them a burner and sell (or they can bring their own) blank CDs for $.50. When they visit libraries elsewhere we get feedback noting how inferior the experience is on the standard Gates Foundation model everyone else in the state uses.

If you really want simple, take a look at some of the preloaded netbooks from ASUS or HP.

Re:..so?

[TangoMargarine]

No, that would be 35,000. Per install.

Re:..so?

[mystikkman]

W7 blows up Firefox; every launch throws three error dialogs before settling down and running. F12 instead throws the abrt-tool every time FF closes.

And that's Windows 7's fault and cannot be Firefox's? Right? Blind fanboi, much?

Re:..so?

[RMS Eats Toejam]

entirely credible free alternatives.

Ha ha ha. "Free" and "entirely credible" don't mix. Nice try though.

Re:..so?

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

Or people with conscience.

Re:..so?

[aldld]

That actually kinda sounds like something a drug dealer would say.

Try it for free and get hooked?

Re:..so?

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

We don't ignore them, we understand them to be unimportant.

Translation: I don't like them, so I'll ignore them.

Please take your astroturf campaign somewhere people won't call you out and laugh.

How about, first you take your paranoia elsewhere, so that people won't call you out and wince.

Just means that after a couple of YEARS of pent up demand because of the Vista fiasco retailers had a decent Xmas selling season for PCs despite the generally crappy economy. Almost none of those 7 licenses were actual retail sales in the normal meaning of the word.

Wait, so which is it now? Is it:

a) Vista was crap, and now people are falling over themselves to buy a windows 7, or a PC with windows 7, or
b) Almost all of windows 7 sales were involuntary, and not a product of demand

You can't have it both ways. I suspect it's somewhere between the two Microsoft-bashing extremes. Anyway, however which way you slice it, it's a win for Microsoft and a loss for Linux. It doesn't help Linux for you to deny this.

Meh. At least most Apple users DO upgrade when a new OS ships instead of waiting for their next system purchase to get it rammed down their throat whether they want/like it or not. But Apple is just a niche player and their business model requires them to remain a niche player. Unlike His Steveness who only aspires to be a cult leader, we want "World Domination"

You know, the point of this story was not that Apple released snow leopard (it's not like geeks ignore OSX releases). The point was that windows 7, released at a similar time, was getting more customer satisfaction than snow leopard. A part which I noticed you studiously ignored.

You say that like you guys in Redmond are proud of it or something. It is a sign of a saturated market. Odds are over half of that 10% was people getting a new machine for Xmas because the penetration numbers for 7 before that was still fairly small. Compare and contrast to Win95's release and deployment rate. That was a product people really wanted enough to suffer through the pain of upgrading.

You say it like it's something to be ashamed of or something. No matter how it's deployed, 10% of the huge PC market is extremely large. Hell, it's still early days, and you can still pick up Vista machines, or install XP, or install Linux. Remember, these aren't sales figures, these are usage figures. Face it: people are using windows 7, and by and large, they are satisfied with it.

Even you seemed satisfied with it to certain degree, as rabid a linux zealot as you are.

Re:..so?

[jmorris42]

> And that's Windows 7's fault and cannot be Firefox's? Right? Blind fanboi, much?

1. I was giving my first look at W7 experience. Firefox has never blown up on any previous Windows install I have used and I only use IE to download FF. Microsoft has teams dedicated to making sure key ISV's products work because they know people buy computers (normally never really thinking about the OS, which is exactly what Microsoft wants) to run applications and if popular apps don't work customers don't care who is at fault. If they aren't working with Moz Corp that IS their fault.

2. Guess you didn't/couldn't read the next sentence where I note that while FF blows up on launch on W7 it blows up on close on F12, hence along with the noted different but equally wrong docking behavior merits the Meh! verdict on both.

Although I guess I should rate Windows worse on the docking problem because it is a preload and the dock is advertised as a recommended accessory. Lenovo should get to share blame with Microsoft for not properly testing. Windows KNOWS the new resolution of the docked display but decides to keep running at the lower resolution of the internal panel on a warm dock with the lid closed. In the same situation Fedora believes both panels are active and, worse, that the internal one is the primary so the gnome panel isn't visible, making the monitor control applet hard to get at. On Windows I can quickly fix the resolution and on Fedora I bound a key to pop up gnome-display-properties so it is usable.

The bigger point being neither are perfect but both are about equally usable. Availability of a key app, preferred philosophy (UNIX vs Windows vs Mac) are both more important factors in picking an OS, all three major OS families having long since passed the threshold of being 'good enough' to get work done. In my case I like the UNIX Way and won't use closed source if an open solution exists that doesn't blow. For now that puts me on Linux but I'm threatening to ditch it for BSD if I can't at least find some reliable documentation on some of this new freedesktop *kit/udev/hal/etc steaming piles of xml bullcrap. Fighting the frigin registry is easier, at least it is fairly well documented these days.

Re:..so?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ubuntu is a commercial product too. Just because it is Open Source does not mean it is not commercial.

Re:..so?

[ajlisows]

I don't know enough about the software Climate outside the United States, but I really can't see how bootlegged copies of Windows are the #1 competition to Linux. The majority of people buy a new computer. It came with Windows XP, Windows Vista, or Windows 7. They'll upgrade Windows when....they buy a new computer. With Windows XP having been out since 2002 or whatever, most users have a copy of Windows XP. Except for the case of people who have purchased computers from small mom and pop shops that "forgot" to include the sticker with the license key, I've done very little in the way of using bootlegged copies of Windows. (Yes, Full Disclosure: I've helped users get cracked copies of Windows when they have been screwed like this and needed to reinstall. If that makes me a horrible software pirate that needs a visit from the BSA, so be it.)

Bootleg Microsoft Office or Adobe Photoshop? I can see that being a barrier to Linux on the desktop. Windows? Not so much.

Re:..so?

[evilviper]

Microsoft revealed that it had sold over 60 million Windows 7 licenses through the second quarter.

XP is now... finally... unavailable.

PC retailers have to chose between Vista and 7. The overwhelming sales of 7 suggest Vista is a monumental piece of crap.

Re:..so?

[X'16435934]

Citation, please.

Re:..so?

[jmorris42]

> Wait, so which is it now? Is it:

> a) Vista was crap, and now people are falling over themselves to buy a windows 7, or a PC with windows 7, or
> b) Almost all of windows 7 sales were involuntary, and not a product of demand

I'll try one more time to explain it.

1. Vista was considered to be crap. EVERYBODY was saying it, the NYT, CNN, everybody. I never messed with it a lot but the one machine I put the RC on worked just fine. Sluggish though and it was an Athlon64. But regardless of fact, perception is everything once a meme sets in and Vista == suck was accepted wisdom.

2. No significant numbers of customers have bought upgrades since the Win9x era because upgrades are painful and almost always end up in a wipe and fresh load. An upgrade also normally requires tossing hardware without drivers. Thus now they buy a PC and it comes with an operating system. When they replace that PC it usually comes with a new OS.

3. Enterprise and SMB customers were (and still are) offered the option of getting XP but retail choices were 1) Vista, 2) Mac, 3) postpone purchase.

4. Macs are expensive and don't run any of a user's existing software.

5. Facts 1-4 caused customers to put off replacing their PC in droves, fearing getting stuck with "the suckage that is Vista."

6. The buzz around Windows 7 started telling people it "didn't suck like Vista." Again it didn't even have to be true, only that be become common wisdom.

7. Millions of people who had put off buying a new PC came back to the stores and bought a new faster PC since the Vista nightmare was finally over. But note that sales weren't through the roof even with the pent up demand.

Bottom line, people don't run out in any significant numbers and buy based on the OS but they will avoid buying a new PC if one of the components is considered to be crap. Imagine if every PC offered at a decent price had one of those old Conner Bigfoot hard drives after you figured out they were crap. You would wait until the stores got in new models. Well Vista was kinda like that.

> Anyway, however which way you slice it, it's a win for Microsoft and a loss for Linux. It doesn't help Linux for you to deny this.

Do you really think the only shot Linux had was the window of opportunity while Microsoft was pushing Vista? We made most of our gains against XP. All we have to do is keep the quality up and make small but constant gains. Eventually we will get close to Mac OS at which point we will instantly become the 2nd OS since we run on commodity hardware. After that Apple dies (really doubt they could maintain their mystique and profit margins as #3) and we are the only competition left standing. From there we should be able to get into double digits, especially if we can get any traction from the ARM smartbooks and tablets. Then the battle begins.

> Face it: people are using windows 7, and by and large, they are satisfied with it.

I wouldn't dispute that, it is part of the argument I just made, see point 6 above. However, what I am saying is if they have XP or Vista SP2 they are also pretty satisfied and will only be upgrading the XP installs because much of the hardware hosting those installs is getting long in the tooth. Quick! Name me ten must have applications that only run on Windows 7. Ok, how about name ten that won't run on XP. Remember, people buy PCs to do things and if XP can watch YouTube videos and post to twitter most folks are happy campers. And Firefox on any current Linux can also do those things. If the iron wall keeping preloads out of retail channels is ever broken all hell will be set loose on Microsoft's balance sheet. Note also that 'enough' computer to do those things is quickly approaching the cost of a Windows 7 license. (Starter excluded)

> No matter how it's deployed, 10% of the huge PC market is extremely large.

Not really. Windows 7 has been on sale through one Xmas. About one in ten PCs in active service rolling

Re:..so?

[TempestRose]

Yeah, let's start with: 1. Vista was considered to be crap. EVERYBODY was saying it, the NYT, CNN, everybody. I never messed with it a lot but the one machine I put the RC on worked just fine. Sluggish though and it was an Athlon64. But regardless of fact, perception is everything once a meme sets in and Vista == suck was accepted wisdom. Um, wrong. There were a lot of people, myself included, who had a great time with Vista. Was it the best ever? Probably not, but that would be standard fare for a fanboi, wouldn't it? I ran Vista on a new home build since I built it. No issues. None. Your Point 1 is anti marketing bullcrap. So, Not bothering to read the rest of your bull. Have a nice day. Go back to playing with your little linux. Enjoy yourself and just stay there. We won't miss you.

Re:..so?

[jmorris42]

> These magic mushrooms from Apple are so awesome.

No, no, no! There is Steve and his Kool-Aid and there is Nintendo with the magic mushrooms. Learn the difference and you can identify crazed fan boys at a distance.

Re:..so?

[__aaclcg7560]

This is California. Magic mushrooms are everywhere. You just need to learn the difference between them and the death head mushrooms. If you're tripping out on LSD and mistake Nintendo's magic mushrooms as edible, that's a different problem.

Re:..so?

[westlake]

We don't ignore them, we understand them to be unimportant.

I don't know how to respond to something like this.

Here is the graph: Windows 7 Breaks 10% in Daily Tracking

In daily tracking Win 7 had a 3.5% global share October 31. 10% on January 31. In monthly tracking, Win 7 had a 0% share in March. 7.5% in January, and blew past Linux along about September.

The open public beta was a spectacular success.

Win 7 entered the game when Vista hardware and drivers had matured.

That said these numbers have to come from consumer spending on the mid-line product, or better. Not netbook sales and not corporate purchases. That is a vote of confidence from a market that was supposed to be Apple's for the taking.
 

Re:..so?

[westlake]

Well, the first one is always free.

The Linux Live CD is also free - and cast out into the world with all the abandon of an AOL coaster. But Linux enters the new year with a 1% share and Windows 7 with 10%.
 

Re:..so?

[TheThiefMaster]

Strangely, Firefox runs perfectly fine on my Windows 7. I think it's much more likely that there's something broken about your pc. Do you overclock? Got decent antivirus? etc etc tech support.

Re:..so?

[masterzora]

Wow I think I need sleep. I read that first line as "I haven't finished baking Apple pie." Can I have some? I'm kind of hungry.

Re:..so?

[Rogerborg]

That's comparing apples to car analogies. How big a share does Windows 7 RC have?

Re:..so?

[Anonymous Coward]

So what? Just means that after a couple of YEARS of pent up demand because of the Vista fiasco retailers had a decent Xmas selling season for PCs despite the generally crappy economy

So what? Heh, you are attempting to dispute data with your own opinion. Got any proof of what the demand was?Just pulling stuff out of the ass I see. But thats regular fare over here for anti-ms trolls.

, I got it forcefed on a new laptop

Forcefed huh? So why didn't you buy a mac? Why didn't you buy a Linux laptop? Do you want major manufacturers to invest money and create products specifically catered to the minority? You must be really dumb to expect that. Nobody cares about Linux. How do I know that? Because I don't see any uptake in Linux on the desktop side. 1%.. Wow. The market share numbers shows how big a failure it is. Nobody is going to buy a product that cant run windows apps, just like nobody is going to buy a smart phone that cant run iphone apps.

To the stupid pedants: 'Nobody' obviously is used here for rhetorical effect. In reality there will be an error margin.

Would I upgrade a working Windows XP PC to it? Why?

This is funny, a nice tactic actually. So you want people to enumerate features of Windows 7 one by one and have you shoot them down as "nothing important"? I can sit here and do that for every product too. Gee how smart you are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_features_new_to_Windows_Vista

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_7#Core_operating_system

If you don't want these features don't upgrade. Asking "Why should I upgrade?" on a technical forum just shows your ignorance. Or maybe you are too stupid to understand these changes and want technical people to sit and explain shit to you...

Re:..so?

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

Facts 1-4 caused customers to put off replacing their PC in droves, fearing getting stuck with "the suckage that is Vista."

...

But note that sales weren't through the roof even with the pent up demand.

Do you have numbers to back up this claim? I'm not sure the demand was as pent up amongst non-geeks as you think they were. I think that these sales figures for windows 7 are fairly healthy, even given the so called "vista nightmare".

Besides, you never actually addressed my question. You claimed that the figures were unimportant, seemingly because of two conflicting reasons. Now, it seems, from what you've written, the figures are unimportant because they are a reflection on vista. In that case, what this tells you is that people are still eager to buy a PC with windows on it. It's still a loss for linux.

Do you really think the only shot Linux had was the window of opportunity while Microsoft was pushing Vista?

I said a loss for linux as in a loss of an opportunity, not a "game over, pack up and go home" kind of loss.

Anyway, my point was that these numbers are significant. Sure, the OS market is dominated by bundling, but these numbers show MS's continued domination of the PC market. Are they lower than expected? Depends what you expect. If vista was recognised to be so bad, you would expect less loyalty towards windows and Microsoft.

Re:..so?

[mcgrew]

I own no stock in Microsoft, nor do I work for them. So why should I or anyone who doesn't own stock in or work for Microsoft give a rat's ass about their sales numbers or market share?

Re:..so?

[jmorris42]

> I think it's much more likely that there's something broken about your pc.

Possible, but my experience was this:

1. Buy Thinkpad x200s

2. Light it up, go through the firstboot stuff.

3. Let Windows Uodate do its thing.

4. Launch IE to download FF.

5. FF installs and throws three error dialogs, then runs.

6. Odd. Reboot and launch FF. It throws three error dialogs and then runs.

7. Make the recovery media set, do other mandatory housekeeping, etc.

8. Try FF again, still broke. Ok, isn't that odd. Now on with resizing Windows partition to make room for F12. That was a bit of an adventure but a tale for another day...

9. It is now over a month later, I have booted Win7 a couple of times. FF has updated itself once yet the problem persists.

Re:..so?

[TheThiefMaster]

Maybe the error dialogs give some hint?
What with other users on Win7 not getting any, they're probably important.

Re:..so?

[westlake]

We don't ignore them, we understand them to be unimportant. Please take your astroturf campaign somewhere people won't call you out and laugh.

Apple is moving towards a pure appliance model. Google too. The Windows system remains a general-purpose PC - and a PC with some serious horse-power even at entry level.

There has to be a reason walmart.com lists about 150 Win 7 systems in every form factor. The has to be a reason why WalMart's in-store netbook inventory has shrunk to a single Nickelodeon branded XP laptop for kids.

Re:..so?

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, this is pretty much a myth. Most will not give you a free first whatever-they-happen-to-be-selling; they actually want to make money, believe it or not.

Re:..so?

[Corporate Troll]

Steve Jobs is better than God.

Of course... After all, we know Steve Jobs exists.

Re:..so?

[jaronc]

> 1. Vista was considered to be crap. EVERYBODY was saying it, the NYT, CNN, everybody.

Ran fine for me. Apart from the first month when there was no drivers for my soundcard. I even ran it on my gaming machine with no issues. If anything I was always mystified at how much trouble everyone else seemed to be having with it.

But yes, it did get a lot of bad press.

Duh

[Anonymous Coward]

This should not be a surprise to anyone. Why is this news?

Re:Duh

[dclozier]

Actually I'm expecting a lot of surprised people. I seen a lot of used computers being sold on Ebay with Windows 7 rather early on that I figured these had to have had the preview release installed by the seller.

Re:Duh

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a reminder that there will be several reminders and then Win7RC will shut down. People forget. It's been a year since they installed the system.

Re:Duh

[GIL_Dude]

Aha! Interesting - thanks for that. There are always some sneaky people out there. I would have never thought of doing that (not only am I not sneaky enough, I'm not evil enough either).

Re:Duh

[recoiledsnake]

Erm.. the OS will clearly say 'Evaluation Copy' on the right. See http://www.istartedsomething.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/windows7rc_large.jpg

Re:Duh

[Bobfrankly1]

Aha! Interesting - thanks for that. There are always some sneaky people out there. I would have never thought of doing that (not only am I not sneaky enough, I'm not evil enough either).

Hi! I'm from Google! I noticed the last part of your comment, and I would like to offer you employment!

Re:Duh

[JohnBailey]

Erm.. the OS will clearly say 'Evaluation Copy' on the right. See http://www.istartedsomething.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/windows7rc_large.jpg

True.. But given the ability for ignoring stuff like virus scanner trial expirations, this is hardly screaming at the top of it's voice.

Re:Duh

[selven]

No surprise, no complaint. I just like feeling smug that I don't have to put up with any of this proprietary BS.

Re:Duh

[ScottCooperDotNet]

This isn't anything new, either. Exchange Server's RCs (2000, I think) used to crash the service several times a day, by design, after one year from the install date. One small businessman that I knew used to just reload his mail server then, so this change would have affected his behavior (or he'd set his date back :).

Re:Duh

[elrous0]

Of course it's news. Who would have ever thought that MS would sink to CHARGING for their software?!?!

As a current user of it

[pwnies]

I wonder how many people who have in currently installed will go out and buy the latest version rather than attempt to bypass the restrictions. It seems like these restrictions are targeted at the type of people who do know how to circumvent these things (that is, people who don't mind beta testing and keep up their computer skills), and that it'll be more of an annoyance than a polite, "Hey the trial is ending soon. Just fyi."

Re:As a current user of it

[Anonymous Coward]

I've already patched my copy around the restrictions. I've got a legal copy so I figure I'm going to be lazy and not move on to the RTM until I redo my hardware again. Till then, I've already tested and this copy I'm running won't deactivate.

Re:As a current user of it

[Lisandro]

The average Windows user will just accept it's ok for his computer to reboot after a couple of hours. The ones that know better will simply patch the OS.

So, in a nutshell, sadly it won't make any difference.

time...

[Anonymous Coward]

time to start searching for a pirated version of windows 7... or go back to XP and stop dealing with all the damn 7 issues i have been having ;)

Re:time...

[Flea of Pain]

If you're only having 7 issues, why go back to XP? It has like...over 9000!

Re:time...

[Monkeedude1212]

XP has (according to recent studies) 1 more X in its title than "Windows 7". Using the math from an Into to Calculus course, I can deduce that The 1X in XP divided by the 0X's in 7 makes XP allllmost both infinite and negative infinite times more badass. (See Appendix A: The Badittude of X). However, anyone with a high school diploma knows its actually impossible to divide by 0, so you could say that XP is so Badass, its undefined.

Re:time...

[clang_jangle]

I honestly don't see why the parent should modded "troll". After all, nearly everyone who buys a PC has already paid microsoft when they bought their PC. And of course we all collectively pay in billions of dollars and an absurdly high amount of time wasted per year due to their monopoly over so much of the business and government infrastructure. I say if you really want the new windows, go ahead and just take it. You already paid for it, and you'll continue to pay for it.

Re:time...

[Anonymous Coward]

You could say that... if you're a fucking moron.

Re:time...

[sopssa]

While your post makes no sense, it makes no sense.

Re:time...

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought a car once; it broke. I am sure you will happy to know I am going to steal yours.

Re:time...

[louden obscure]

no problem, itsa toyota with a push button tranny and a sorta sticky gas pedal...

Re:time...

[Anonymous Coward]

oh soooo bad...lol nice link but hey, I already have Win7 thank you.

BTW, we all knew it was to stop working when we decided to try the public beta and RC.

Re:time...

[TangoMargarine]

Kind of depends on the value of P, doesn't it? Maybe it's i, because after all, people's expectation that they can continue using XP because it will keep receiving security updates until the end of time is crazy.

Re:time...

[Liquidrage]

We didn't "already pay for it". That's just your imaginary viewpoint based on your presupposed biases to justify your deplorable behavior.

Re:time...

[Anonymous Coward]

We didn't "already pay for it"

If you can't refute the points made, STFU. Simple contradiction is not an argument. Thanks for adding nothing to the discussion but your irrational judgement.

obligatory ....

[Brigadier]

ok, aaand how is this any different from what happens now ?

"......Windows 7 RC will automatically shut down every two hours. Those shutdowns will come without warning."

Re:obligatory ....

[recoiledsnake]

I know this is Slashdot and all, but I've been running Windows 7 right from the public beta, through RC and final, and it never once bluescreened on me and all shutdowns were for updates or manual restarts.

Re:obligatory ....

[CannonballHead]

Same.

Re:obligatory ....

[Anonymous Coward]

the update restarts can certainly be manually set to only allow manual restarts, but by default it gives you a ten minute warning and allows you to postpone upto a max of 4 hours before you have to postpone again.

Re:obligatory ....

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny it BSODs on me each and every time I want to shut it down and that causes it to ... restart!!
And if I click "restart" instead of "shutdown", it restarts with no issues.

I guess it just doesn't want to die, maybe I got "Windows 7 Ultimate Resurrection" and didn't notice :-) ... luckily it is in a VM and I can simply hit the "force off" button which I do very often as I use W7 only for tests.

Re:obligatory ....

[recoiledsnake]

Isn't that a good thing for the non tech savvy people(the vast majority) that run Windows? Running vulnerable versions for days instead of rebooting is not good.

Re:obligatory ....

[OutSourcingIsTreason]

It'll still be better than Vista.

Re:obligatory ....

[supernova_hq]

That's not a bug, it's a feature!

Re:obligatory ....

[TheReal_sabret00the]

+1

Re:obligatory ....

[TangoMargarine]

Maybe it's afraid of the dark. After all, how can it be sure that it will wake up again?

Re:obligatory ....

[Cap'n.Brownbeard]

Yeah, +1.

Been running W7 Ultimate build 2600 for a few months now and I have to say I love it. They have some work to do on UAC to catch up with *nix, but aside from that it's the best version of Windose I've ever used...

Re:obligatory ....

[sumdumass]

I wonder if entering shutdown -a in the run dialog box would halt the shut down process like it does when the lass or whatever process it was causes when it's killed.

There was some nasty spyware/malware crap that would look for some system processes and attach to them so when your removal tools attempted to kill them to remove the infection, the machine would reboot before the cleaning could be accomplished. To avoid this shutdown, you would have to enter "shutdown -a" in the run dialog box when it gave you the warning that it was shutting down.

Re:obligatory ....

[Hal_Porter]

'net stop wuauserv' from a command prompt stops the automatic update service if you really want to stop a machine rebooting because it's doing something. Then reboot manually to get back to normal.

What's different?

[SnarfQuest]

Whenever I use Windows, it always seems to shut itself down frequently when I'm in the middle of working on something. There's Blue Screens, automagic updates, and random freezes. So, what's different about this? It isn't going to change the uptime very much.

Re:What's different?

[matazar]

I'm going to assume you are trying for a joke here. In either case, you are doing something wrong.

Re:What's different?

[maxume]

He probably has a Ritz cracker installed in the CPU slot.

Re:What's different?

[swanzilla]

I see where you are going there...

In all honesty, when was the last time you saw a BSOD? I have been running XP at work with 100% uptime for years, and for quite a while kept a Vista dual-boot for streaming media at home with no issues. At least tout the merits of something superior w/o resorting to tired anti M$ rhetoric.

Re:What's different?

[mikerubin]

Artic Silver on a Ritz, hmmmm....

Re:What's different?

[Hellswaters]

Whenever I use Windows, it always seems to shut itself down frequently when I'm in the middle of working on something. There's Blue Screens, automagic updates, and random freezes. So, what's different about this? It isn't going to change the uptime very much.

I got the retail of windows 7, never had a blue sceen, turned off automatic update (so it never reboots because of updating) and never had a freeze caused by the OS. I had the exact same experience with the RC. And, for the most part, same with the beta (minor issues, but it was a beta version)

Re:What's different?

[Sowelu]

Only time my computer's ever crashed since I installed XP was when my secondary drive suffered a head crash. I'm sure someone will tell me that Linux could have kept running, because hey, it wasn't even the root drive. But I can't say I really care.

Re:What's different?

[Selfbain]

I think I see your problem. You're using ME. Seriously dude, it's been 10 years. Let it go already.

Re:What's different?

[md65536]

I have been running XP at work with 100% uptime for years...

How many years? That's incredible! Not a single system crash, reboot, or power failure even in all that time? Or do you mean something different than "100% uptime"?

Re:What's different?

[Belial6]

I get crashes about once a week. The who system just shuts down. Of course, this COULD have something to do with the fact that I have a video card that says you need a 300 watt power supply, and the computer has an 80 watt power supply in it.

Anyone know of a decent power supply that will fit in a Gateway low profile case?

Re:What's different?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have been running XP at work with 100% uptime for years...

How many years? That's incredible! Not a single system crash, reboot, or power failure even in all that time? Or do you mean something different than "100% uptime"?

Of course he misused the term. Everyone knows that at work you either have Windows updates running, and therefore restarting at least monthly for those big patches, or you install something with a service that requests
a reboot to work.

If your machine is one of the few not controlled by domain policy, then you could probably say the domain doesn't force you through a mandatory Windows Update - Restart cycle. But, being a work computer that you are the sole admin of for various years, it's impossible to update driver software or install programs or replace failing disks / fans / power supplies hardware without hitting that start menu's Restart or Shut down option.

Hell, few servers are allowed to run perpetually to claim uptime records in the 'years' range. We're talking maybe mainframes. The poster just meant 'no involuntary downtime'

Re:What's different?

[Anonymous Coward]

In all honesty, when was the last time you saw a BSOD?

Earlier today. There still are a lot of flakey drivers out there, especially AHCI on XP.

Re:What's different?

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

Whenever I use Windows, it always seems to shut itself down frequently when I'm in the middle of working on something. There's Blue Screens, automagic updates, and random freezes. So, what's different about this? It isn't going to change the uptime very much.

Just a stab in the dark here, but I think we're talking about versions newer than Win98/Win Me.

Re:What's different?

[dbIII]

I have been running XP at work with 100% uptime for years

That doesn't mean what you think it does.
It's used in the context of systems with redundant hardware that can be replaced while the power is still on and code still running and not a desktop PC that gets turned off every night or rebooted about once every two weeks after an update. Using what looks to you as cool tech language doesn't help you fit in, it's the equivalent of calling the beige box on the floor a "hard drive".
In XP the behaviour was changed from a blue screen to an exit back to the login screen anyway. I've seen a lot of those or just complete hangs. There is such a vast amount of utter crap that runs on XP that when it crashes it's most likely a third party app doing it - but it is still something common in that environment no matter what causes it.

Re:What's different?

[Anonymous Coward]

I still repeatedly get BSODs in Windows 7. Granted, I think it's something to do with the graphics driver. Or maybe it's the CPU. It's a new computer, there's all sorts of weird stuff that I'm not sure works. Why do computers need to be complicated?

Re:What's different?

[Anonymous Coward]

i had win7 running in a vm and something went all bear shaped
bluescreened. reset the vm and it showed up again.

to get a bluescreen nowadays, something really screwy must happen

Re:What's different?

[Firehawke]

Had some early chipset driver issues in XP way back in the day (a six month period of major problems between Detonator drivers and Via's 4-in-1 chipset drivers) but in recent years (XP, Vista, and Win7) I've only had problems from the rare occasional "driver went very very wrong" crash or dying hardware crash.

BSODs don't show up nearly as much as they did back in the 9X days, that's for sure.

Re:What's different?

[Anonymous Coward]

I actually got a BSOD a few weeks ago on my XP laptop. I remember thinking wow, I haven't seen one of these in years.

Re:What's different?

[Anonymous Coward]

We saw it (black screen of death) twice in our lab, except it wasn't just a BSOD, but required we insert the Win 7 DVD and repair the installation, not once, but twice. What's more amazing was that it crashed both times over the weekend when no one was around. Repairing worked, but who wants to go through the aggravation of repairing an OS every weekend? The same system runs XP Pro just fine.

Eventually we'll upgrade to Windows 7, but they better get that SP1 out soon.

Re:What's different?

[VGPowerlord]

In XP the behaviour was changed from a blue screen to an exit back to the login screen anyway.

No, actually the behavior was changed to automatically reboot when the computer blue screens (unless Windows hasn't finished starting up).

I've seen it before after installing a buggy ATI driver. This was years ago, though.

Re:What's different?

[Anonymous Coward]

you don't see them any more because they did away with them.

they replaced the bsod with a quick reset, and by the time you were just starting to roll with your MS rant, your system was back up and you were at your desktop.

this pacified a lot of people.

honestly, the number of bsods i got were very few in Win2k. I got about the same number of quick "resets" in XP, and I've had about the same number in Vista.

Windows has always been stable for me since the NT line. I was careful about my driver selection, and my dll management ....later when microsoft took these tasks over, i continued to have infrequent bsods/resets.

3 or 4 times a year.

compared to linux though, i've honestly never had a hard lock on my linux desktop that wasn't caused by me doing something overtly stupid.

the other thing is, i still cannot leave my vista workstation running week after week, never powering down. just like windows of old, the weekly reboot is still a good thing.

linux on the other hand. this isn't a problem.

Nostalgia!

[pwnies]

PCs running Windows 7 RC will automatically shut down every two hours. Those shutdowns will come without warning

The periodic shutdowns aren't actually part of the trial restrictions. They're built in to celebrate the 10th anniversary of windows ME

Re:Nostalgia!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not a celebration, Windows ME was just a beta version of this "Feature"

Re:Nostalgia!

[Anonymous Coward]

;)

Re:Nostalgia!

[Nimey]

Also the 18th anniversary of Windows 3.1.

Apropos of that, someone told me today that back in the day, his beta copy of Windows 3.0 would crash about twice an hour, without needing any special code.

Re:Nostalgia!

[lw7av]

Is Windows a virus?

Re:Nostalgia!

[Anonymous Coward]

No, viruses are acquired from good friends and lovers.

A friend does not give you windows.

Every two hours, eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's still a pretty good stability improvement over WindowsME.

Re:Every two hours, eh?

[CannonballHead]

I know you're joking, but sometimes it bugs me, so I choose you to bounce a rant off of. :) Windows ME is 10 years old. Let's compare Windows 7 to RHEL 2.1 next and see how they compare.

Re:Every two hours, eh?

[TangoMargarine]

Very true. Hey, you haven't lived until you've seen a computer boot directly to a bluescreen. Or freeze up and become completely unresponsive while running ScanDisk afterwards. It's like some kind of demented "Sup Dawg."

Re:Every two hours, eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's still a pretty good stability improvement over WindowsME.

And then we have numerous versions of Windows that refuse to shut down at all; drifting into a mysterious state of unconsciousness. Perhaps MS is so proud of fixing THAT problem, they can't help but show off..."See, we can make it shut down any time we want!"

Feature or Bug?

[Joucifer]

"...will automatically shut down every two hours. Those shutdowns will come without warning." My office computer already does this.

That is probably their main target

[Sycraft-fu]

People who've forgotten or being lazy. Not only do they want your cash, but supporting prerelease software is a recipe for problems. They'd like to phase it out and not patch it.

Re:That is probably their main target

[Anonymous Coward]

Not only do they want your cash, but supporting prerelease software is a recipe for problems. They need to fudge
the figures to show people are buying into the Win7 bullshit.

Fixed that for you.

Re:That is probably their main target

[Anonymous Coward]

What an idiotic post.

If you downloaded the 7 RC, you knew it was going to deactivate eventually. This is not part of some nefarious plan.

Re:That is probably their main target

[supernova_hq]

Yes it is, the pawns just didn't read the second page of the attack plan.

Re:That is probably their main target

[supernova_hq]

Lol, I guess someone with the RC had mod points :P

I'm glad there's no bias in the reporting on /.

[anomnomnomymous]

Nice post there: Completely devoid of any bias towards Microsoft/Windows...

Ok, let me turn off my sarcasm-mode first.

So why the negative article about this? All the users knew beforehand that the free trial would end one day: Saying that it's "nagging" the user to pay up, is nothing more than using some fine choice of words to make it look bad on Microsoft.
Seriously, there's lots of other stuff that you can slack MS for, and you have to do it for this?
Also, you got to love the 'it will shutdown without a warning'... but it warns you from the 15th of February...

Next up: Adobe nags the users after one month of using their trial software. Oh, the horror!

Re:I'm glad there's no bias in the reporting on /.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's copied and pasted straight from ComputerWorld, which isn't particularly anti-Microsoft. Honestly I can't see where you think the summary has a bias against Microsoft. It's fairly factual. It _will_ shutdown without a warning immediately previous to the shutdown - you just generally know that it'll be doing so.

Re:I'm glad there's no bias in the reporting on /.

[recoiledsnake]

Let me guess, you're new to Slashdot? This site is not news for nerds, it's news for anti-'M$' nerds. You won't see a story here about Windows 7 increasing Microsoft revenue. Just plain FUD and negative articles about MS abound on here.

The huge success of Windows 7 helped Microsoft romp to $19bn of revenue for the quarter, earning $6.6bn in profit. It was a record three months for Windows sales, with a whopping 60 million Windows 7 licences shifted.

Re:I'm glad there's no bias in the reporting on /.

[eepok]

There's nothing anti-anything up there. There's no opinion.

I think *you* need to *read* the summary again without bias.

Re:I'm glad there's no bias in the reporting on /.

[CannonballHead]

The users didn't just "know," they were told. Big difference. MS made no secret about it.

Re:I'm glad there's no bias in the reporting on /.

[recoiledsnake]

The point is that it's about as newsworthy as 'water is wet'. If MS doesn't let the copies expire... we'll see a headline here shouting "OMG M$ ALLOWS VULNERABLE WINDOWS COPIES TO KEEP WORKING", since RC doesn't get updates. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Re:I'm glad there's no bias in the reporting on /.

[CannonballHead]

Combining "notification" with "without warning" seems to be a logical error. It is written sensationally. It is written as though Microsoft sneaked this on people, even though we already knew that the machine would begin shutting down every two hours before the RC actually expires. The author either didn't know that or simply left it out of the summary, making it look like Microsoft is throwing this extra wrench in several months early in an effort to get people to "pay up." Even the choice of words (e.g., "pay up") make it sound slanted.

Bias and opinion do not only come out when people say "I think" or "I believe" or "I HATE M$!!!!!!11"

Re:I'm glad there's no bias in the reporting on /.

[Draek]

Not just "one day", Microsoft explicitly described everything, from the warnings to the automatic shutdown complete with dates for each, on the website you needed to access to register for the RC. And even for the idiots who click OK before reading, they would've known that it was gonna happen based on the same process the Beta went through late last year and all the reports about it.

There are exactly two kinds of people who will be affected by this: first-year engineering students in the southern hemisphere who are waiting to start classes in March to get their free license through MSDNAA, and illiterate morons.

Re:I'm glad there's no bias in the reporting on /.

[Tim C]

All the users knew beforehand that the free trial would end one day

The email MS sent us with the licence key for it made it perfectly clear what would happen, including dates, warnings, and 2-hourly shutdowns. No-one with a legitimate install of the RC should be surprised by this at all.

Re:I'm glad there's no bias in the reporting on /.

[n30na]

.. except that they changed the dates later? I mean I agree that people should've seen it coming, but it is a little sneaky to change the dates after the fact.

Re:I'm glad there's no bias in the reporting on /.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, too many loaded words in the summary for it to be unbiased.

Re:I'm glad there's no bias in the reporting on /.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why the upset human people units? Because the full version is incredibly overpriced for the small improvements over the last version that they released about a YEAR before this NEW and improved ULTRA-EXTREME SUPER WINDOWS SEVENdythirtyteen.... Slag, it's Slag. We want to Slag them for this crap.

But releasing a 300$ UPPGRAYYED,,, IS pretty SLACK.
I agree.

Re:I'm glad there's no bias in the reporting on /.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't FRAKKIN' care if they are "increasing revenue"... and frankly... that's not news for nerds... tha's news for economists... as a nerd I feel... they have made the rollover cycle much shorter (xp lasted how many years?) and meanwhile they are charging exorbitant amounts for what amounts to a stupid upgrade, that should have been a download for vista users and as the other software used by said nerds is following the new ms upgrade cycle, I need to use the 'new' windows for interoperability.
(my other computer is a mac4lin decked out ubuntu... but I need to interact with people in the microsoft garden... so get off the high horse, come down here, and see why people are ACTUALLY having a problem with it all (in the middle of a really horible economy.)
But by all means, dismiss this as {insert derogatory statment here} fanboism...

(oh, ok, yeah, I know, now why don't you all tell the one about how we must be "mac fanbois" or some other throw away derogatory crap now.)

Re:I'm glad there's no bias in the reporting on /.

[Anonymous Coward]

When their "revenue is increasing" as you say we should have articles about, that simply means that they have a user base with virtually zero true choice for alternatives that are viable for a business trying to get business and interact with clients and competitors and others.. this is not because they have made a "valuable" or "new" product.

This simply means that they have OVERCHARGED for a product that people living in the modern world can not escape needing to use (or rather they can make money, but not participate in the information and technology economy.)

I'm glad there's no rude people who only think of how THEY feel POSTING on slashdot.
-oops, left the sarcasm tags on there. oh well.
But I guess you have heard this before... so you must be right, and I, wrong.

Re:I'm glad there's no bias in the reporting on /.

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

There's nothing anti-anything up there. There's no opinion.

I think *you* need to *read* the summary again without bias.

It's pretty subtle, but there's no denying it's there. Consider this phrasing which conveys the exact same facts:

Windows 7 RC systems will begin issuing warnings of pending expiration on February 15th. As originally stated by Microsoft at [this link] back in March 2009, expired RC installations will cease normal operations as of March 1. Beginning from point, they will shut down at irregular intervals.

Re:I'm glad there's no bias in the reporting on /.

[Anonymous Coward]

Increased M$ revenue? Surely you jest! We have been hearing on this fair and balanced site every year that M$ is about to become irrelevant, the end is nigh and this year is the Year of Linux on the Desktop.

Re:I'm glad there's no bias in the reporting on /.

[RAMMS EIN]

``Saying that it's "nagging" the user to pay up, is nothing more than using some fine choice of words to make it look bad on Microsoft.''

Actually, I think that is the technical term for it. Software that does this is called nagware.

``Next up: Adobe nags the users after one month of using their trial software. Oh, the horror!''

Actually, I do think it's pretty horrible. I guess you get used to it, but having switched to open source software a long time ago, I half jump out of my skin with fear, annoyance, and fury when I find myself on Windows, especially in the "as shipped" or the "my computer is slow" states. It's like every second program on the computer is trying to get your attention for something or other: your computer may be at risk, your virus definitions are out of date, your trial period has expired, a new Java update is available, checking for new versions of your Firefox plugins, please click "Allow" if you want to allow Windows to start the program you just told it to start, and on and on. And don't get me started on the processes of software installation, hardware installation, or updates.

Being used to Debian, the Windows desktop is horribly distracting. I can completely understand why users give up reading the messages that pop up on their screens and just want them to go away as quickly as possible.

Sorry for the rant. I feel better now that's off my chest.

Re:I'm glad there's no bias in the reporting on /.

[Jesus_666]

I take "without warning" to refer to the individual shutdowns. Compare this to the scenario of an automatic restart due to an important system service having failed: Windows shows you a dialog explaining it's going to shut down and counts down one minute to let you save any unsaved data you have. A shutdown without warning sounds to me as if Windows just immediately force-quits all applications and then shuts down, which is a bit rude.

I know, Windows 7 RC isn't intended for production environments but still eating the user's data is not something I think Microsoft wants to be associated with again. Even for an EOL'd beta product.

Re:I'm glad there's no bias in the reporting on /.

[tehcyder]

Completely devoid of any bias towards Microsoft/Windows.

I think you meant against if you were being sarcastic.
But, hey, apart from the fact that it completely inverted the meaning of your post, who cares about spelling/grammar on slashdot?

Re:I'm glad there's no bias in the reporting on /.

[mr_gorkajuice]

I'm pretty sure they didn't change any dates. Shutdowns starting March, completely useless by June sounds very familiar. Unfortunately, I can't dig out hard evidence. Neither can you, I suspect.

Re:I'm glad there's no bias in the reporting on /.

[Anonymous Coward]

One could probably find it messing around one archive.org, but it's not really worth the effort =P

What service....

[jameskojiro]

What service does this auto shutting down reside in and how do we disable it?

Re:What service....

[geekmux]

What service does this auto shutting down reside in and how do we disable it?

Sorry, you're probably gonna have to look harder than that. After all, Microsoft infected their OWN product with semi-random "shutdowns". God knows they've had YEARS of experience seeing how others can kill the OS.

Re:What service....

[Anne Thwacks]

What service does this auto shutting down reside in and how do we disable it?

The service is Windows, and you disable it by installing Ubuntu.

(You must be new here).

Re:What service....

[mobby_6kl]

shutdown -a aborts any current shutdown porcess, so it's almost as good. You just need to be quick.

Re:What service....

[JoshDD]

Ubuntu isn't the answer for everything. Intrepid and Karmic both suck, I've downgraded many computers back to 8.04 because it is slooowww. Try writing to a USB drive or transfering data between drives. On Karmic I was getting a transfer rate of 35mb average between identical sata drives. Same computer exact same drives and I was getting 100mb average transfering between Slackware and Mint and I was even transfering the same files.
Too many Linux noobs seem to think Ubuntu is Linux. The only good point to Ubuntu is their repositories.

Re:What service....

[Brett Buck]

Yeah, he walked right into that one.

Re:What service....

[psithurism]

how do we disable it?

You can probably just set your clock back a few years. Maybe they've thought of that, but then again, maybe they haven't.

Re:What service....

[psithurism]

Or you can pay for W7, but that would be too easy.

Re:What service....

[Anonymous Coward]

Which causes you to then run out and buy a retail copy of Windows 7 the next when wireless doesn't work and you realize almost all linux apps are shit.

Re:What service....

[TangoMargarine]

And the forum. I challenge you to find a single n00b Linux question that isn't answered specifically and correctly on that site. And in the end, that's definitely what Linux needs: Easy help for everybody who's switching over who doesn't have a clue.

Re:What service....

[JoshDD]

ok i'll give you that I use the forum for help with non-Ubuntu related issues

Re:What service....

[Anonymous Coward]

What service does this auto shutting down reside in and how do we disable it?

They provide some solutions here:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/buy/default.aspx

Re:What service....

[mikechant]

Try writing to a USB drive or transfering data between drives.

Not that this makes it acceptable, but this problem is *not* universal (presumably hardware specific). I've tested USB 2.0 transfer rates on 9.04 and 9.10 and both give pretty much the maximum speed.

Open Source/Linux's Failure To Capitalize

[Anonymous Coward]

Ten years I've been trying to make the switch from Windows to Linux.

Ten years of going through the ritual of downloading the latest trendy Linux distro. Ten years of the same amateur junk sending me and the rest of the computing world right back to Windows.

Inane spinning 3d effects trying to desperately prove that Linux is 'ahead' on the desktop.

The clusterfuck that is KDE and Gnome.

Not being able to just click on a news story about new piece of software because the bearded GNU freak who is in charge of the pointless 'packaging' of software for each and every distro is busy with bong hits and World of Warcraft raiding on his Windows partition he doesn't tell anyone about.

The mass of crapware that is open source software compared to their commercial counterparts.

These 'lol, microsoft! just install linux' stories would actually be effective if the open source world hadn't been spending all their time jerking each other off here on Slashdot for the past decade instead of actually putting in the hard work of creating a viable and commercial quality desktop and application array.

Yes, being faced with the choice:

Pay for Windows 7
Track down a safe and working pirated copy
Switch to the joke that Linux is on the desktop

We all know which 2 of those 3 the computing world is going to go for.

Re:Open Source/Linux's Failure To Capitalize

[ameline]

> Yes, being faced with the choice:

> Pay for Windows 7
> Track down a safe and working pirated copy
> Switch to the joke that Linux is on the desktop

Or get a Mac.

Re:Open Source/Linux's Failure To Capitalize

[Anne Thwacks]

Step away from the chair, Steve ...

Re:Open Source/Linux's Failure To Capitalize

[kurt_harlan]

I have never had this sort of experience when sampling any of the readily available linux distros. As an aside, it's difficult to sort through any post that is a bunch of generalities with NO ACTUAL information or links to actual information.

Re:Open Source/Linux's Failure To Capitalize

[markdavis]

>> Pay for Windows 7
>> Track down a safe and working pirated copy
>> Switch to the joke that Linux is on the desktop

>Or get a Mac.

Oh THAT is really brilliant. How about we add:

Or buy a whole X86 machine with MS-Windows 7 already licensed and installed
Or buy a while X86 machine with Linux already pre-installed

MacOS is not free, any more than MS-Windows is.

Re:Open Source/Linux's Failure To Capitalize

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe I'm a bit less discerning than you, but somewhere back, about 10 years ago, I made the switch to Linux for my desktop. I kept a Windows (legal!) boot partition around, or ran it under VMWare, for the several programs I couldn't find a replacement for. Gradually, the number shrank, although it sat at "3" for several years. 4 years ago, though, I didn't have to do that anymore. I have a legal copy of WinXP (my office never really made the switch to Vista) in case I just have to load up a VM (site license with no VM restrictions), and it's kept in a sfe spot, so I can find it. But, really, I've not had to do that for, yes, 4 years and two laptop rebuilds, because I've found that:
1. Gnome and KDE are just competing window environments. I can live and work with either.
2. The hardest decision is csh/tcsh or bash.
3. OpenOffice is interoperable enough for all I do. You know, scientific papers, presentations, writing documents ot PDF, spreadsheets with fewer numerical limitations that Excel.
4. I'm not as hobbled in Linux as in the Windows world, where they can't get '/' right, and they try putting network-related files in really strange places.
5. The bearded guy keeps corporations from removing Open Source software from my desktop, especially if they've merely raided it instead of writing it themselves!

Sorry, a "Score:1, Insightful" heading is in error. More like, "-5, troll".

If you don't like it, then don't use it. But please don't tell me what I should use because you can't find the shrink-wrap license.

Re:Open Source/Linux's Failure To Capitalize

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you. That's something the FOSS folks (fanatics) don't get.

Now, all we need is the "Well, why don't you write you own." or the "You can just go and write a version yourself," posts that will get modded up +5.

Re:Open Source/Linux's Failure To Capitalize

[Anonymous Coward]

> Yes, being faced with the choice:

> Pay for Windows 7

> Track down a safe and working pirated copy

> Switch to the joke that Linux is on the desktop

Or get a Mac.

Or a diamond-studded TI-85...

I think the GP was talking about software upgrades, not about costly-shiny-but-mostly-useless toys...

Re:Open Source/Linux's Failure To Capitalize

[Bobfrankly1]

> Yes, being faced with the choice:

> Pay for Windows 7 > Track down a safe and working pirated copy > Switch to the joke that Linux is on the desktop

Or get a Mac.

Buy an OS, pirate an OS, use a OSS OS, and you added "buy high end hardware for it's candy colored OS."
Are you mad? Oh, you're a zealot, my bad.

Re:Open Source/Linux's Failure To Capitalize

[Anonymous Coward]

I know this is going to sound mean. (Yay for the troll) but you do realize that World of Warcraft runs just fine on Linux, right?. I don't play it, but I've helped a bunch of people set it up under Linux.

I'd suggest saying something like, "... and Impulse Powered games on his windows partition he doesn't tell anyone about..." Wait, that doesn't cover me either. I guess I just don't game enough. You know, the beauty of open source is that if you wanted badly enough to fix something, you could. Apparently, it just isn't important enough to you. And don't say "But I can't code?" I couldn't either. I'm still learning. If it really was that important to you, you could find a way.

Ask Slashdot:

[countertrolling]

Do you expect people to get upset over this? What, are they expecting it to just keep on going? My copy never got out of the virtual box. It's just there to figure out how to learn WTF. Come March.. or February, or whenever, whoopee! 25gb freed up.. for the hacked copy.. just kidding. No name, home made boxes with XP are a booming business right now. 7 is still a giant kludge. It's like Microsoft wants people to switch. Seems to be working.. Lots more Macs in my neighborhood.

Re:Ask Slashdot:

[md65536]

Do you expect people to get upset over this? What, are they expecting it to just keep on going?

People who aren't using it will get upset over the principle: software that is advertised as expiring in June 2010 becomes unusably crippled months before then.

People who are using it have lower expectations, because they realize it's a beta version of commercial software, and are used to the idea that the only principles you have a right to are ones that you've paid for.

Re:Ask Slashdot:

[caitsith01]

7 is still a giant kludge. It's like Microsoft wants people to switch. Seems to be working.. Lots more Macs in my neighborhood.

Actually, 7 works really well and is without much doubt the best OS Microsoft has so far released. And I am someone who went through the pain of manually downgrading a new laptop from Vista to XP, so great was my hatred for Vista and love for XP. I mostly use my PC for gaming and I won't be going back to XP.

There are maaaaaaaaaany ways in which 7 beats XP. For example:

- actually recognises hardware made in the last 10 years out of the box

- driver-related crashes, if any, typically drop you back to the desktop with no further damage

- actually quite good at finding the right drivers on-line

- significantly better HDD performance in my case, which I attribute to the OS actually expecting and knowing how to use modern SATA drives

- and of course a UI that looks half decent and is much more intuitive and flexible

Re:Ask Slashdot:

[secretcurse]

In what way is 7 still a giant kludge? I've been running it since the beta started, and it works really well. I think it's the best OS Microsoft has released since XP, and is a great improvement over XP. And no, I'm not an MS fanboy, I use Ubuntu on my desktop about 60% of the time, and my laptop is a MacBook Pro. Both boxes run Windows 7. Mac OS, Windows, and Linux area all 3 great for some things and shitty for others. Why can't we all agree on that?

Windows 7 networking woes

[HycoWhit]

Count me as one of the people seeing the nag screens... Installed Ultimate edition 32-bit, have a license of Professional 64-bit. So at some point I am going to have reload the OS. Just not sure it if will be Win 7 Pro-64 or back to XP.

Biggest problem with Windows 7 has been the network performance. On a gigabyte network I can not get better than 100mbs performance, while the Linux and XP machines perform as expected. To make matters worse, the network appears to spike and disconnect itself at random times. Streaming a video from the Windows 7 machine and surfing the web will produce stutters. Talked with a buddy that is a a major account TAM--apparently the networking issue has been well known since the RC and affects nVidia and Intel chipsets. My question to him--so what chipsets does that leave unaffected?

I really tried to like Windows 7 but the more I try to like the more I find thinking Ubuntu is the way to go...

Re:Windows 7 networking woes

[dunezone]

Streaming a video from the Windows 7 machine and surfing the web will produce stutters. Talked with a buddy that is a a major account TAM--apparently the networking issue has been well known since the RC and affects nVidia and Intel chipsets. My question to him--so what chipsets does that leave unaffected?

So is it Nvidia, Intel, or Microsofts fault?

Re:Windows 7 networking woes

[Anonymous Coward]

That's totally your machine pal. I have no problems.

Re:Windows 7 networking woes

[Anonymous Coward]

I have an Intel chipset on all of my machines at work and with Windows 7 we regularly transfer files between 700-900Mbps. This is back and forth between a combination of Windows 7, Windows Server 2003, and Windows Server 2008.

My question to you is, what chipset do you have which is actually exhibiting all of these issues? All you provide are some anecdotal reasons as to why Windows 7 sucks. And does your buddy provide any details of what machines are having these issues, aside from nVidia and Intel? Sounds like a blanket statement that can possibly be attributed to clueless customers or stupid IT people who won't take the time to troubleshoot.

I would naturally say "I don't know why this is modded insightful" - but that is a foolish statement because I am on Slashdot.

Re:Windows 7 networking woes

[HycoWhit]

I'm going with my fault for installing Windows 7 in the first place...

The same hardware performs as expected under XP and Linux (SuSe, rPath, and Ubuntu), so folks can draw their own conclusions.

Re:Windows 7 networking woes

[dcam]

I've had issues too, in my case the network isn't available for the first few minutes after booting up.

In my case apparently this is a known issue with the drivers for my (onboard) network card. I haven't got around to updating them yet as I'm planning to nuke the install with a RTM version shortly.

Of course not having a network up and running on boot tends to do interesting things to the VMs I have running on my machine.

Re:Windows 7 networking woes

[Anpheus]

I run a mixed infrastructure of Windows (XP, 7, 2003 and 2008 R2) and Linux machines and see >95% network utilization on our gigabit network with mixed Intel, Realtek and Broadcom network adapters. We have 100 clients on the network however and I don't know if we have every combination of OS and adapter.

Problem ain't the OS.

Re:Windows 7 networking woes

[Anonymous Coward]

...apparently the networking issue has been well known since the RC and affects nVidia and Intel chipsets. My question to him--so what chipsets does that leave unaffected?.

Well that would leave AMD and ATI chipsets unaffected. And as I have had none of those problems with my win 7 box, that must be true.

Re:Windows 7 networking woes

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? I'm getting somewhat opposite here. I have a few machines here running Windows XP, a few running Linux, one stuck on Vista, and my own personal gaming box is a W7/XP dualboot.

Performance has been W7/Linux at the top, with XP down somewhat, and Vista showing the worst performance on network transfers.

I'd say the chipset and drivers are inclined to make a big difference here.

Re:Windows 7 networking woes

[Anonymous Coward]

On a gigabyte network

If you use nonstandard network, then expect compatibility problems...

Re:Windows 7 networking woes

[Anonymous Coward]

On a gigabyte network I can not get better than 100mbs performance, while the Linux and XP machines perform as expected.

Please tell me who I contact to get a gigabyte network.

Perhaps Doc Brown can direct me to a man who can provide me with such a network. I imagine it would be able to stream a jigawatt of power as well.

Re:Windows 7 networking woes

[Anonymous Coward]

What makes you think it's not the OS? From the example you've given, you have a huge variety of machines, including Windows 7, and your network is close to capacity. Why wouldn't this mean that all the other machines run above 100mbs except for the Windows 7 w/Intel/Nvidia-eth which run at 100mbs or less? Unless you're running Windows 7 w/Intel-Nvidia-eth as a network router and the throughput is 95%.

It would certainly be evidence that W7 isn't hosing the entire network, but not that it can support speeds greater than 100mbs.

Re:Windows 7 networking woes

[Anpheus]

Nah, network isn't even close to capacity. Gigabit will work fine for a few years at least or until 10GbE comes down in price.

What I meant to say by "network utilization" was that any given machine can initiate a file transfer or what-have-you with any other given machine, and get 95% network utilization. That is, they get around 900 to 950 megabits per second over the adapter. Virtual machines do just as well. XP does just as well. Windows 7 does just as well.

I'd guess that the problem is his driver.

So what?

[markdavis]

So what? Are there people stupid enough to think that a demo version of any software will run forever without nagging and shutting down, or going into limp mode? This is a completely stupid article totally unworthy of being posted on Slashdot.

If you want a legal, free, [modern] OS without nagging or shutting down, install Linux, BSD, or OpenSolaris. Otherwise, pay up or shut up!

Re:So what?

[Paco103]

Hey now, I learned about "trials" from Winzip. I expect a box where I have to click OK, but I shouldn't have to PAY to get full functionality on day 937 or my 30 day trial!

Re:So what?

[md65536]

WinZip should have been thinking like Microsoft! They could start corrupting archives on day 24 of your 30-day trial!

Re:So what?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Are there people stupid enough to think that a demo version of any software will run forever without nagging and shutting down"

Shit, son, I have demos of all sorts of software that still run to this very day, no nags, nothing.

This behaviour

[Progman3K]

Those shutdowns will come without warning.

So, um, situation normal, then?

Re:This behaviour

[Bobfrankly1]

Those shutdowns will come without warning.

So, um, situation normal, then?

Not Quite, they've solved the problem of "unexpected shutdowns" by removing the "unexpected". They just scheduled them so you know what to expect.

Ultimate validation of commercial software dev

[Anonymous Coward]

The complete and abject failure that is Linux on the desktop is the ultimate validation of the commercial software development model.

Writing software is hard. But we knew that 10-15 years ago when Linux on the desktop was just starting to be an open source dream. It was a nice fantasy to cling to that the army of millions of programmers around the world would rise up and crush the outdated commercial software companies.

Win 7 RC was good

[microbee]

I had used it since last May until last December when I bought a discounted ultimate version for $30. The RC had almost everything the final version had, and it was nice for me to be able to try it out before paying for it (and finding a deal). I have no complaint for something that was free for half a year and as high quality as the official version

Re:Win 7 RC was good

[ZosX]

How does one fine a copy of 7 for so cheap? I've been looking, but the cheapest I can find professional for is like $130 right now.. :(

Re:Win 7 RC was good

[Anonymous Coward]

I would think a $30 copy of Windows 7 Ultimate has to be from a non-legitimate source. $30 for Ultimate is less than Microsoft's employee pricing.

Re:Win 7 RC was good

[Anonymous Coward]

That crack was good, gonna go back fer more!!!!

so says the junkie.

20 Questions, minus 16

[Bobfrankly1]

As of March 1, PCs running Windows 7 RC will automatically shut down every two hours. Those shutdowns will come without warning."

Isn't this a feature of the upcoming Windows 7 "ME Mode", the less desirable counterpart to "XP Mode"?

Wait, so this is a penalty now, and not a feature?

Why don't they call it nostalgia mode, for those that dream of the so called better days of yesteryears?

It's the new power saving version of the BSOD! Instead of a blue\black screen, it just shuts down! Microsoft goes Green!

Thanks folks, I'll be here all week!

Re:20 Questions, minus 16

[mysidia]

It's still more stable than Windows ME.

And i'm sure the eval h@x0rs will find a way around this measure.

Such as the Windows 7 equivalent of a shutdown -a command.

I run Windows 7 RC

[Anonymous Coward]

I do it because that box is my girlfriend's gaming machine and I don't feel like wasting all that time and bandwidth downloading her games again. If you could update from the RC to the final I would. Steam alone is probably going to take all week to get everything re-downloaded. There's been no reason to go through the ordeal so I haven't done it. I guess I won't have much choice soon, thanks Microsoft! And before the greedy whiners say anything: Yes, I do have a legit license that I purchased so I'm not getting anything "free" by running the RC.

Re:I run Windows 7 RC

[AnonGCB]

There are ways to upgrade from RC to full, but it's not clean. Either way, steam has a backup system, I suggest you employ it.

Re:I run Windows 7 RC

[recoiledsnake]

If you could update from the RC to the final I would.

It was explicitly stated during the RC process that it may not be upgradeable to the final version. Anyway, I have updated it and it works fine for me and most. Here's how http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/3075/how-to-upgrade-the-windows-7-rc-to-rtm/

Backup everything and try it before a fresh install.

Re:I run Windows 7 RC

[Corporate Troll]

Hmmm.... Have you tried using an update version? I don't see a reason that it wouldn't work. Besides, you're running beta software, you should realise that it comes with sacrifices. Besides, as far as I know Steam allows backups. Do that, set them aside on a USB HD and reimport them on your freshly installed legal 7.

Re:I run Windows 7 RC

[radish]

You don't need to download anything from Steam, just copy the files. There are instructions on their site.

Re:I run Windows 7 RC

[cpt_drewbie]

Steam alone is probably going to take all week to get everything re-downloaded.

Just as an fyi: So long as you preserve the Steam directory, you shouldn't need to reinstall any of the games as far as I know. The last few times I have formatted, all I need to do is possibly reinstall the steam client itself and all of my previously installed games have worked fine afterward. It's one reason I tend to get games on Steam now instead of elsewhere if they're released at the same time.

Re:I run Windows 7 RC

[Gilandune]

You know you can just backup the steam data....there is no need to re-download. You also knew it wasn't a final version you were installing on that PC, choosing to use it for production cannot be blamed on MS.

Re:I run Windows 7 RC

[geekprime]

Just install steam on the new machine, copy the ENTIRE old steam directory over the one you just installed.

All you have to do is log into steam once and you are home free.

Re:I run Windows 7 RC

[jhoegl]

I have upgraded my PC from XP to Vista to 7, all clean installs. My Steam and its games are installed on a separate drive.

Know what I did to get all my games back? Installed Steam again, pointed it to that directory during install and logged in.

Enjoy...

Re:I run Windows 7 RC

[mattcoz]

Yeah, I've got a full copy of 7 but haven't installed it yet. It's called being lazy. :) Seriously though, the RC is perfectly stable, I've noticed no difference between the RTM I use at work and the RC I use at home.

Re:I run Windows 7 RC

[Eskarel]

You know you can export steam games to install files and you don't actually have to redownload them. They're still locked to the account, but it makes convenient CD or DVD sized images and an installer. No need to download again.

Re:I run Windows 7 RC

[Anonymous Coward]

I have the Enterprise edition. This doesn't work to upgrade that. I purchased Windows 7 Ultimate and I keep resetting my calendar back a month to keep the Enterprise edition working.

Re:I run Windows 7 RC

[mystikkman]

I have the Enterprise edition. This doesn't work to upgrade that. I purchased Windows 7 Ultimate.

Whose fault is that? And will you keep running it after June with no updates from MS?

Re:I run Windows 7 RC

[Anpheus]

Why did you install the Enterprise RC when you knew that it was a volume license only deal, because they said so and have always said so?

In fact, the only way you could have downloaded the Windows 7 Enterprise RC legally was through MSDN/Technet where it specifically said "VL Build."

Re:I run Windows 7 RC

[siloko]

because that box is my girlfriend's gaming machine

sure thing bud ;)

Re:I run Windows 7 RC

[war4peace]

So you made fun of your girlfriend by installing an operating system which was specificaly designed with the following in mind:
1. Would cease working after the cut-off time
2. Should NOT be installed on any sort of "production" machines (it's a RC after all)
3. Would not be officially upgradeable to the W7 final
And now you're complaining of all of the above.
It's like buying fresh milk and whining it went bad 4 days later. you had been warned. What did you expect?
If you have a legit purchase, google for the installation workaround. Worked fine in my case. I too had Windows 7 Beta installed on a "production" machine, but was fully aware of the risks and managed to upgrade to final version with ease. But whining about its limitations never crossed my mind.

Re:I run Windows 7 RC

[Anonymous Coward]

But whining ... never crossed my mind.

And that my friend, is why you'll never get on in today's complaint driven world.

Re:I run Windows 7 RC

[Anonymous Coward]

>>because that box is my girlfriend's gaming machine

My girlfriend's box is my gaming machine. :)

(Better than half the geeks here won't get that joke!)

Slashdot moderation flaws

[heffrey]

What a truly lame story. The biggest flaw with the moderation system is that I can't use my mod points to moderate on the actual stories as well as the comments!

Re:Slashdot moderation flaws

[Eil]

If you're logged in, there are buttons to vote a story up and down in the firehose. I'm not sure they do anything once the story hits the front page, though.

It's a good thing.

[recoiledsnake]

Since the RC doesn't get any updates, less vulnerable boxes in the wild is always good for all of us. Why is this being spun as a bad thing?

Re:It's a good thing.

[Chang]

The RC is still getting security updates.

Re:It's a good thing.

[mystikkman]

It definitely won't after June 1st, if not earlier.

Re:It's a good thing.

[wvmarle]

This is /.. Anything MS does is bad and evil. That's all. Nothing new under the sun here.

Re:It's a good thing.

[Malc]

I don't know why this is even a story. It's a total waste of bandwidth. This shutdown is part of the deal of using the RC. Maybe there are people out there who downloaded it off bittorrent without realising it was limited, but then that's their own stupid fault.

Re:It's a good thing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Since the RC doesn't get any updates, less vulnerable boxes in the wild is always good for all of us. Why is this being spun as a bad thing?

I'm running the RC, and uh... it does get updates. Fairly often. Nice try, though.

Re:It's a good thing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is this being spun as a bad thing?

Cuz Microsoft. You must be new here.

Re:It's a good thing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, not... ALL of us.

Anonymous Coward

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sorry but I am happier with Snow Leopard than I was with Windows and I have used every version since 1992 professionally. I don't want to start a fight, but there is a time when enough is enough already. I don't care for Steve Jobs as he is a ruthless leader but the product is solid.

Thanks for your time.

Similar problem found by Ed Bott and solved

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=2729&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+EdBott-WindowsandOfficeExpertise+%28Ed+Bott+-+Windows+%28and+Office%29+Expertise%29&utm_content=FeedBurner

'twas a hardware issue, related to interactions between the network cable and the switch. Maybe related to yours, maybe not.

Oh wow!

[YankDownUnder]

Jeepers! I get to pay top dollar now for an operating system that consistently breaks, consistently does NOT have any usable applications built-in, has a SINGLE desktop, NO security, and an eternal stream of patches and bandages! Gosh, it's got pretty graphics, though, doesn't it?

Re:Oh wow!

[recoiledsnake]

Hey, Paint has a ribbon interface now! That alone is worth top dollar! : )

Re:Oh wow!

[TheRealGrogan]

The main selling point for me is that it runs my games. That's pretty much the only reason I bother with Windows, to feed my gaming addiction. (I use Linux for everything else)

That said, I think that Windows 7 is a pretty nice system. Fast, stable and attractive, though I would feel crippled if I actually had to use it for getting work done. (I've got open stuff laid out across 8 virtual desktops in XFCE at the moment and I can move between them simply by going to the screen edges with my mouse, or click on my pager. I would hit the brick wall of confusion in Windows... if I actually had useful software)

Re:Oh wow!

[Anonymous Coward]

[...] and an eternal stream of patches and bandages!

I can grant you the rest, but if you're not installing periodic updates and patches on ANY operating system, be it Linux, *BSD, OS X, or Windows, either you or the distributor are doing something horribly wrong, and we're not cleaning up your mess for you.

Re:Oh wow!

[shutdown -p now]

I get to pay ...

You don't. You are free to take your money elsewhere - say, to Apple - or keep them to yourself and install some free Linux distro.

Of course, you might want to ask yourself why so many people are willing to fork out the cash for an "operating system that consistently breaks". Perhaps your last Windows experience, circa 2001 (a scarred WinME user?), is a tad outdated, don't you think?

Re:Oh wow!

[Dunbal]

The main selling point for me is that it runs my games. That's pretty much the only reason I bother with Windows

      I agree. That, and trying to run multiple monitors (not 2, I mean 5 or more monitors) is a real pain in the ass in linux. Those are the ONLY reasons I still use Windows.

Re:Oh wow!

[YankDownUnder]

Hey, Paint has a ribbon interface now! That alone is worth top dollar! : )

Dang. Paint has a ribbon. Far out. (counting pennies). Er, does notepad look any better? Does Solitaire let me cheat yet?

Re:Oh wow!

[YankDownUnder]

I'm still stuck on playing Descent and Descent2. Might move to Half-Life sometime soon, dunno. Does it do Descent? :)

Re:Oh wow!

[benjymouse]

I know that I probably shouldn't feed the troll, but anyway

1. Windows does not "break consistently". (what is that anyway?). I assume you meant "constantly". But that would also be false. Windows has grown rock solid, and since XP and with Vista/7 you will only ever experience BSODs when a driver or hardware malfunctions badly.
2. MS has grown wary of bundling applications. Those 92% market share means that any bundled app is a potential anti-trust suit. MS' new policy is to make apps available for downloading, such as movie maker etc. If you are referring to apt-get, then you're right, MS doesn't have anything like that.
3. Single desktop. I'm not sure why you believe fragmentation would be desirable. Anyways, Windows allows the desktop "shell" to be replaced - as it often is in kiosk apps etc (when they are not running Linux).
4. When was the last time you updated Ubuntu? In my experience that OS needs a lot more patching than Windows. All OSes need patching. Live with it.
5. No, the graphics are not as pretty as - say - OS X. And certainly not as overloaded (or stunning) as compiz. But the effects *are* carefully thought through and tends to not distract from the main purpose. Live preview is really useful. As are jumplists. The matte glass effect is just bling, rarely useful.

Re:Oh wow!

[Aphoxema]

4. When was the last time you updated Ubuntu? In my experience that OS needs a lot more patching than Windows. All OSes need patching. Live with it.

Sort of toe-to-toe for me lately.

Re:Oh wow!

[Anonymous Coward]

I find multiple desktops usable when I'm listening to something that cannot be removed from the task list, say a stream on a webpage. Have that running on a separate desktop, and it no longer appears in the alt-tab list on the main desktop. Good times.

Re:Oh wow!

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because so many people are unaware of alternatives.

Microsoft getting free ride

[StillNeedMoreCoffee]

Really, the free trial version of course is a way of getting a large test populatition to shake down the product, to get the product out and get acceptance in the community, to get the geeks familiar with it ahead of time so when the others in their company, friends and family get hit with the new version they will have a up and ready support community. All this microsoft gets for free. This was not a beta version but probably a shakedown version. So the treatment of the user, especiall un-scheduled shutdowns that could ruin a database, or a file or a directory or someones life work seems like a little on the unfeeling corporate 'we can do anything to you we want', spoiled child, I'm going to take my ball and go home, side. Go Microsoft with this new public relations campaign. Luckily I already have Ubantu dual booted (but then my copy is a paid copy of Windows 7).

Re:Microsoft getting free ride

[atheistmonk]

Isn't that what a release candidate normally is?

Re:Microsoft getting free ride

[Yosho]

This was not a beta version but probably a shakedown version.

Well... duh? The "RC" in the name is for "Release Candidate". The entire point of the release is so that the geeks could check it out before the final release so that they could get impressions of it, tell their friends and family about it, and catch any final, show-stopping bugs. Microsoft never said it was a "free trial" version. Anybody who ever used the RC version for an important system is a moron. You seem to have just discovered something that Microsoft was very up-front and honest about.

Also, the Windows 7 beta versions already expired long ago.

Re:Microsoft getting free ride

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't help but think that the shutdown process is the regular windows shutdown process. Meaning that services and applications are shutdown and your POS backend that you are running on a beta OS will not be endangered. It isn't like gnomes hit the reset button or something (though that feature was available in ME).

Re:Microsoft getting free ride

[JoshDD]

Why would any sane person have a database running on an unlicensed RC? Seems very irresponsible.

Re:Microsoft getting free ride

[Anonymous Coward]

Really, the free trial version of course is a way of getting a large test populatition to shake down the product, to get the product out and get acceptance in the community, to get the geeks familiar with it ahead of time so when the others in their company, friends and family get hit with the new version they will have a up and ready support community.

And that's a bad thing how? I for one don't want to have someone call me up with a question about Windows 7 and I don't have enough experience to troubleshoot them through their problem. Especially if I'm getting paid to help. And honestly, I doubt I would have even bothered trying Windows 7 if it weren't for the RC. I'm frankly glad they did it. It allowed me to see that Microsoft had finally put out a product worthy of replacing my copy of Windows XP.

This was not a beta version but probably a shakedown version. So the treatment of the user, especiall un-scheduled shutdowns that could ruin a database, or a file or a directory or someones life work seems like a little on the unfeeling corporate 'we can do anything to you we want', spoiled child, I'm going to take my ball and go home, side.

So wait. You mean suddenly a trial version has to be given an unlimited amount of time to let the user, oh I don't know, use it forever? How is this different from any of the other 90% or so trial applications. I think the only product I ever used that didn't require me to instantly upgrade when the trial ran out was WinZip.

Re:Microsoft getting free ride

[StillNeedMoreCoffee]

Winzip is a good example.

But I guess my point is that the time limit is probably reasonable, but the pro-active , we will shut down your system at random times part is Jacking around your testing community. Recognize that they are doing your a favor, Microsoft, by doing the final shakedown of your system and getting the expereince and word out into the community. Don't treat them to earthquake type tramma, just to push them into paying you money.

With Ubantu and other free OS's around, the free ride argument starts to be weak.

Modded Troll?

[recoiledsnake]

I have enough karma, I don't care, interesting to see the ostrich mentality of the modder though. "Oh no, some pro MS text, let me bury it quick.".

I need Help

[Herkum01]

PCs running Windows 7 RC will automatically shut down every two hours. Those shutdowns will come without warning.

How am I supposed to tell if I have a paid version or not?

Re:I need Help

[JoshDD]

Well do you have a receipt?

Re:I need Help

[psithurism]

PCs running Windows 7 RC will automatically shut down every two hours. Those shutdowns will come without warning.

How am I supposed to tell if I have a paid version or not?

Got this right from the summery:

users are to receive warnings of the impending end.

Didn't even have to read the article.

Re:I need Help

[ksemlerK]

slmgr.vbs /dlv slmgr.vbs /xpr

Re:I need Help

[Anonymous Coward]

Right click on Computer and select properties, it will tell you what version
also didnt the RC have that info in the bottom right of your desktop?

Win7 and Vista

[gearloos]

The Problem is, M$oft brought out win7 beta to shut up all the people that were having a disaster with Vista. Now that the "free" upgrade is over, all those people are stuck with buying Win7. What happened to fixing Vista. I am talking about giving the people who bought it a truly bug free experience. Since all the (misguided) hype over Win7, Vista is forgotten and , yet again, M$oft gets away with producing Garbage and sticking the people who paid for it. Are they just expected to forget the $100's they spent on it and spend yet more on Win7 now that they have no other way to actually use the pile of crap computer they bought with Vista?

Windows 7 RC hack coming in...

[allcoolnameswheretak]

in 3... 2.... 1....

Wait a minute...

[damn_registrars]

... are they trying to claim that the average windows system is normally stable for more than two hours?

Re:Wait a minute...

[JoshDD]

Well I just built a box (2.8 ghz Athalon 2 with a cheap Gigabyte MB and a HDD out of a PS3 and a gig of ram) found an unused copy (as in legitimate in the box never used before) of XP pro. Hasn't crashed once in three weeks. Lots of people blame windows for their crappy hardware. Unstable hardware will crash Linux just as easily. And KDE isn't exactly stable for more than 5 minutes on stable hardware. I think that might be why Xfce and Enlightenment are gaining more popularity..

Re:Wait a minute...

[PPH]

No. They just didn't want to spring a new UI on current Windows users.

Re:Wait a minute...

[RiffRafff]

If KDE isn't stable on your machine, then you still have crappy hardware. Or are you just editorializing?

Re:Wait a minute...

[Zorque]

I'm assuming you haven't used Windows since 98, because my Vista box gets regular heavy usage and has been on for close to 2 months now. I really only have to restart it when I do major updates or on the off chance that some third-party program crashes it.

Re:Wait a minute...

[mystikkman]

Old joke is old.

How To Improve Reliability

[Anonymous Coward]

FTFA: "As of March 1, PCs running Windows 7 RC will automatically shut down every two hours. Those shutdowns will come without warning."

I am pleased that Microsoft has improved the reliability of its operating system, and I definitely plan on switching to a pirated version of Windows 7 with this great new 2-hour uptime capability.

Re:How To Improve Reliability

[Anonymous Coward]

Well done, you win your 'I'm an ignorant cunt' badge.

Hi, I'm a PC

[Cryacin]

and random restarts of Windows 7 was my idea!

Re:Hi, I'm a PC

[telchine]

and random restarts of Windows 7 was my idea!

Personally I like the random restarts. It reminds me of good ol' Windows Me.

Re:Hi, I'm a PC

[dimeglio]

Well I had this Apple ][ clone which when you'd hit the desk too hard, would reboot. Often, right in the middle of unsaved Pascal or Basic code. Ever since then I've been rather paranoid of banging on a desk with a computer on it for fear that a cold solder would get it to reboot.

Re:Hi, I'm a PC

[Anonymous Coward]

So the random restarts are a feature now?

My copy has already shown me the lovely BSOD more than a few times, maybe this is now promoted as a feature too?

And people call me paranoid when I store all my important stuff on linux, and only use windows for software that requires it.

I was using the RC thinking it would work fine until June 2010, at which time I could purchase win7 or go back to vista. But yes, I'm well aware of Microsoft's business tactics so I fully expected my win7 RC to meltdown or self-destruct.

Re:Hi, I'm a PC

[Anonymous Coward]

So basically it turns into Windows ME

Re:Hi, I'm a PC

[Anonymous Coward]

So, it randomly restarts every 2 hours or so? At least it will be more stable than 98.

Re:Hi, I'm a PC

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you should sue MS for patent infringement for using your idea.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/02/patent-infringement-lawsuits-raking-in-the-big-bucks.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss

Re:Hi, I'm a PC

[kaizokuace]

except with this you can expect the restarts, in ME you knew it might happen but you always believed it wouldnt!

Re:Hi, I'm a PC

[RAMMS EIN]

``and random restarts of Windows 7 was my idea!''

Does this satisfy your need? Windows 7 in 7 Screenshots.

Re:Hi, I'm a PC

[ozmanjusri]

Yeah, I've decided to let my Win 7 install die a quiet death.

There's not enough new to make it worthwhile paying for, and it's a pig to troubleshoot when things go wrong.

Now that the honeymoon is over and friends who have bought computers with it installed are starting to choke them up with all the usual MS-ecosystem detritus, I'm being called to do more unpaid tech support for Microsoft. I'd rather not run it at all, then at least I'll be able to say I can only help 'em if they switch to an OS I use.

Re:Hi, I'm a PC

[iainl]

Sorry, but I call Windows ME as Prior Art. You can't fool me.

Re:Hi, I'm a PC

[Anonymous Coward]

Try NOT running it in a VM, or try running it in a decent virtual machine, VMWare works fine, and if that fails, your shit is broken. I have 7 installed in several VMs (all vmware) and on several laptops and desktops. No problems. Your shit is broken, don't blame MS.

Re:Hi, I'm a PC

[smash]

+1. I've used vmware to develop our win7 SOE without any issues. Win7 on Vmware is solid. I was even running it in Workstation 6.5 without official vmware support and it was fine.

Re:Hi, I'm a PC

[VGPowerlord]

Does this satisfy your need? Windows 7 in 7 Screenshots.

So there's a problem, we don't know what it is, and Windows can't fix it.

Out of curiosity, in your last screenshot, did you try clicking the "View Problem Details" button to see if Windows would tell you what the problem is?

Re:Hi, I'm a PC

[von_rick]

If you know its gonna be two hours, its not that random.

Re:Hi, I'm a PC

[RAMMS EIN]

Yes, I did click that button. It didn't give me anything helpful. There is also another screen I once managed to get where I could perform various automagic problem solving actions. None of them fixed the problem. I also don't know what the problem was; the system never really tells you.

All in all, it is a good example of what you get when you try to keep the technical details hidden from your users: the system tells you something is wrong, but not _what_ is wrong. It then offers you to try and fix it, without telling you what that is going to do. And whatever that did didn't alleviate the still unknown problem.

Anyway, this isn't the version actually released as a commercial product, and it isn't running on a production machine, so I'm not getting too excited about it. I still thought "Windows 7 in 7 Screenshots" made a nice slogan, though. :-)

Re:Hi, I'm a PC

[RAMMS EIN]

Hello Anonymous Coward,

It is fully possible that what happened here is due to bugs in the VM rather than in the OS.

For the record, Win7 did actually run in the VM at first. It just lacked support for the emulated sound card, which I read would be available after running Windows Update. So I ran Windows Update. This caused the system to trash (constant disk activity) for over 48 hours, after which it crashed. The screenshots are what I get when I boot the system after the crash.

Meanwhile, I have the same version of Windows 7 (build 7100) running on my real hardware. It worked out of the box, except that it wouldn't connect to my network. Since I don't really need network access (I only use it to play a single-player game), I have made no effort to debug that issue. It also makes it impossible to run Windows Update, so I don't fear that I will hose this install like I did the other. And I don't worry about malware and privacy issues, either. So I'm perfectly happy with it this way.

Re:Hi, I'm a PC

[Corporate Troll]

I had this on a coworkers Vista machine... He gave it to me in order to get his data back. Put the HD in an Ubuntu machine, took all data and gave it him on a USB disk. I tried to fix it for a while, but I couldn't manage. Guess a reinstall was in order. To me it looked like a recovery procedure gone terribly, terribly wrong.

we can do that...

[damn_registrars]

While the moderation system is screwed up (and the metamoderation even more so), you may have missed something when you said

The biggest flaw with the moderation system is that I can't use my mod points to moderate on the actual stories as well as the comments!

That is what the Firehose is (supposed to be) for. You can go to the firehose, set it to show you upcoming stories, and then vote them down if you think they aren't worthy. And if you see stories in the firehose that deserve attention but are not scoring high enough for the front page, you can vote them up at the same time.

And then in proud slashdot tradition, all those votes will be discarded and they will do whatever they feel like (or whatever makes the most money).

Re:we can do that...

[Nimey]

One person's voice against a bunch of retards isn't going to amount to much.

Incidentally, that's why I don't bother writing my Republican congressman anymore.

decisions... decisions...

[Anonymous Coward]

To keep using the RC until it expires, or to purchase the full product (which depends on a remote server)... The full version will also eventually "expire" when MS takes down the auth servers for the full version...

I think I'll stick with Ubuntu or Windows 2000, because I only rely on software that isn't defective by default. Now its time to go play some Doom 3 on my NVidia GPU. I'm not a FOSS zealot.

Re:decisions... decisions...

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.defectivebydesign.org/

Re:decisions... decisions...

[petermgreen]

The full version will also eventually "expire" when MS takes down the auth servers for the full version...
Windows activation only needs a remote server for initial activation and reactivation on hardware changes*, not to continue running once installed.

Though I doubt MS will shut down the servers for a LONG time and by the time they do I strongly suspect there will be a crack (and updates will have stopped so no risk of an update breaking the crack).

* when using a kms machines must periodically check in with the kms but the kms itself only needs initial activation and reactivation on hardware changes.

You know

[mysidia]

Displaying a dialog box frequently is almost as bad as a shutdown every 2 hours :)

You get free OS

[DogDude]

Oh, puh-lease. Anybody using the RC gets a free ride in that they get to test the OS and test their software with the OS for free. If you don't want to help test a RELEASE CANDIDATE, then don't use it. Nobody's twisting your arm. Ubuntu is buggier than any modern version of Windows... why aren't you complaining about "testing" Ubuntu for free?

The most secure windows yet

[thewils]

It just powers off. Hack that China!

No worries

[Anonymous Coward]

The "patch" is available here.

Normal...

[Anonymous Coward]

Rebooting every few hours, then not booting at all? Many Windows users will just think this is normal.

Re:Normal...

[tehcyder]

Rebooting every few hours, then not booting at all? Many Windows users will just think this is normal.

Windows 95 just called to ask for its joke back.

Those relying on an RC

[nurb432]

I don't care who's software it is, if its been released for this long, its time to pony up or just quit using it.

Windows 7 Wiped My Drive Clean

[zeroRenegade]

After I installed windows 7 ultimate it completely wiped my drive which had windows 7 RC, and installed some bloody system files.

I foolishly was using the drive as storage at the time. One of the worst losses I've been hit with.

I had disconnected all other drives during the actual install of windows 7 ultimate (since windows is infamous for altering boot sectors), and I did not reconnect the other drives until many startups afterwards. Still it managed to completely wipe the drive without me even noticing until a day later.

It could have been much worse. Thank God windows does not understand the ext fs.

Re:Windows 7 Wiped My Drive Clean

[VGPowerlord]

After I installed windows 7 ultimate it completely wiped my drive which had windows 7 RC, and installed some bloody system files.

Every version of Windows I've ever installed asks you if you want to format the drive.

This includes Windows 7.

Re:Windows 7 Wiped My Drive Clean

[Aphoxema]

It could have been much worse. Thank God windows does not understand the ext fs.

Not natively, but you can read EXT2 and 3 with "EXT Installable File System". Works great, gives Windows a good opportunity to kill your GNU/Linux installations too.

Anonymous Coward

[Anonymous Coward]

Pay for your software, and quit your bitching. It takes vast quantities of money to develop an operating system that will actually work in the real world. You knew going in that it would end. They told you it may not be upgradeable. What kind of dip shit puts their life on a system with a pre-release beta version of an operating system, anyway? You are supposed to be TESTING it, not freeloading. It should not be a big deal to do a clean install of the final version. All your stuff should either be on a stable computer with a finalized version of an operating system, or on an external drive. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is.

What did you expect?

[Anonymous Coward]

When you suckle at the Microsoft teat, what do you expect? You guys love this stuff so much, why don't you just pay for it? It's not like there aren't better options out there.

not quite a shutdown

[glebovitz]

I received notice from Microsoft that Windows 7 RC would get a "Blue Screen" every few hours. The notice didn't say anything about Windows shutting down gracefully. At first I though it was a joke, but then I followed the link to the Microsoft web site and it turned out to be serious.

Ahhh... the microsoft motto

[Exception Duck]

Ahhh... the microsoft motto

Be evil.

There is no other way to put this

Re:Ahhh... the microsoft motto

[mystikkman]

How is this evil? Or were you just karma whoring?

Re:Ahhh... the microsoft motto

[mjwx]

No,the Microsoft motto is,

Be greedy.

Evil just happens to be a side effect of this. If saving kittens was highly profitable, Microsoft would at the forefront of feline recovery services.

Re:Ahhh... the microsoft motto

[Exception Duck]

heh, maybe.

Shutting down the computer at random intervals is just evil.

Yes I downloaded the RC client - no, I didn't read the fine print, Yes I have the full version - No, I don't have time to reinstall everything.

Going on vacation in a week - Need my desktop computer running so I can remote into it without any foreseeable problems.

Thought I had until June to do a clean install.

Although someone posted this:
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/3075/how-to-upgrade-the-windows-7-rc-to-rtm/
which sounds promising but of course they should have an official way to do this.

No official way to upgrade + random restarts + surprising fineprint = evil.

Re:Ahhh... the microsoft motto

[_Shad0w_]

And I shall thank you now for that URL. Hopefully that works, because I really don't have the time to feck about re-installing Windows 7.

Re:Ahhh... the microsoft motto

[Anonymous Coward]

If your computer is that important, why are you still using the RC?

I think what really happened is that your mother gave birth to a lazy idiot, who likes to blame others for their own lack of effort/skill/common sense.

Re:Ahhh... the microsoft motto

[Exception Duck]

I'm not running a nuclear power plant :)

And why all the hostility ?

microsoft told people this was going to happen

[atarione]

come on Microsoft told people the rc would do this when it (the RC came out) for Christ sakes.

buy win7, go back to vista /xp or install Linux and shut the fuck up... er hmmm.... I mean exactly that only worded nicer.

thanx

duh!

[Anonymous Coward]

this is /. so it is clearly Microsoft's fault. Always has been, always will be. The thing about the parent post that made me laugh was they don't seem to realise that canonical is going the way of MS. At least Ubuntu warns you by being brown :D

But really, I have just scored a new (for me) lappy with Vista and I can't see what all the fuss is about. NT6&7 ftw!

Re:Really? Yeah REALLY

[X'16435934]

Son, ya got a lot to learn.
You sound lake a linux-weenie, kid.
I run a "sweet-spot" desktop that was home-built a coupla years ago. And I installed the 1st Win-7 on it more than a year ago.
Heh-heh. It was sweet-spot 2 years ago.. but-
It's an AMD-64 now running 7100 ultimate. On only 2 Gig
And is fast, according to my nerdy gamer sons, whose time should be better spent writing their theses, instead of this nonsense about Warcraft and other silly stuff.
Looks like I'll hafta bite the bullet in the next coupla months and pay out - what? $250+ for Ultimate? I NEED them bitlboncker and other features, sonny!
Either that, or spend more time in my Ubuntu partition...

Hey, ya got a job kid?
If'n ya don't .. we need some PHP / SQL / Apache experience - golly it's Linux too! You lucked in!

Oh for the love of........

[jaronc]

Isn't this story perhaps a little hysterical? When the RC came out they were very clear that this would happen, they even gave the dates. They were also very clear you may not be able to upgrade from the RC.

Now it's about to happen and people are surprised? People agreed to help test an RC and in return they got almost a years worth of free use out of a fairly stable OS. Trials over, pay up.

Re:Really? WinME?

[X'16435934]

I have helped SEVERAL old ladies who ran WinME. And then asked me to fix their "computer problems"
I simply upgraded them to a "corporate copy" of Win2000, which alas is now ending its life-cycle.
I suggest you do the same - if you can find a W2K "corporate copy".
If MS ever wants to sue you for replacing WinME with an illegal W2K, well grrr...
YOU will fight it to the supreme court!! And will help you! And your lawyer.
No one. NO ONE! In his right mind shd be running WinME when W2K SP4 is still available (even if you hafta buy it from a Hong-Kong basement) !
I'm currently running Win7-7100 ultimate and I guess will soon have to bite the bullet.
Aside from my old W2K/ apache on an older PC. Listen: Win2K RULES! And lives forever!! (providing you have Firefox)

Never got the thing to work any way.

[richardkelleher]

I tried to install RC on an older Dell workstation. 7 didn't like the network card, the video card and I think it had problems other things as well. I just turned the thing off and left it. I figure that I will install Linux on it again some time in the future.

RC

[^_^x]

It's an unofficial prerelease version of the OS - they already make it very clear you shouldn't use it for anything really important, and that it would expire at a fixed time. It's not news - not even on Slashdot. in April, and in more detail in May last year.

Aha, not so

[SuperKendall]

Yes, but it will notify you without warning.

If you look carefully it was your very copy of Windows7 that submitted this Slashdot story in the first place!

Consider yourself warned about the warning.

Great!

[ElusiveJoe]

This is perfect for an Internet addict like me. Can it also not power up a whole day after this mandatory shutdown? I would pay for that.

A Windows machine that shuts down without warning?

[iapetus]

Yeah, that's new and surprising. :D

I'd be a lot happier if Microsoft had seen fit to let all versions of Windows 7 be used as an upgrade to the preview. The fact that I'll have to reinstall from scratch is the only reason I've not installed my legally purchased copy yet.

Wrong end of the stick

[imakemusic]

This isn't a post decrying Microsoft. Surely it's just a post to remind all those people using the RC to download a cracked copy of the final?

well...

[Anonymous Coward]

...in this situation i would feed the bitch with a virus, watch it go down, then go back to the last snapshot and work like before. what's the problem? you can't work with windoze anyways? oh, i see...

TimerNuke

[Anonymous Coward]

timernuke...

seriously f*cked up

[hesaigo999ca]

Leave it to M$ to go even further at alienating their customers and making them feel like they made a bad choice. This is exactly what I hate about M$!

1 year ago
M$> Hey! i have this great new product for you to use for free, to give us some feedback on how you like the experience and t help us find the bugs.
Client>Great, nice, sweet....i will try it out, is there any catch...?
M$> Of course not, what do you think we are, we just want to make our mark on the world as we are losing so much ground to our competitors...
Client> Ok...

Present day
M$>Ok now pay up...
Client> For what? you said it was free....???
M$>Well , that was back then, and i need a new pool, pay up or i shut down your pc and you wont be able to access all your important files
Client>That sucks....
no response, as PC has shutdown without warning...

Client>That REALLY sucks....
M$ reboots
M$>Ok are you ready to pay up now....?
Client>Let me get this straight, I help you out with finding your bugs on a version you gave to me for free....and now you want me to pay to be able to access my files that are already on my own PC?
no response, as PC has shutdown without warning...

Client> Screw this, I can see why everybody is moving to Mac! Guess it is time to go shopping.

This was clearly expected!!

[Anonymous Coward]

well the RC came with very clear instructions.. free development copy.. annoying times with shutdowns etc.. and slashdot even publishes the story.. its lame for slashdot to publish it.. I am disappointed...

One word (OK, two)

[mcgrew]

SONY XCP FTW!

Ok, three. Blame it on my Intel processor.

Episode V

[Anonymous Coward]

The EMPIRE Strikes Back!

Hi, I'm a PC

[clint999]

After all that registration and setup work, turns out my wife likes Win7 but "hates" the new ribbon interface of Office2007 and wanted Office97 back. I can't find my Office97 CD, so I installed the latest Open Office hoping they didn't do the ribbon interface thing. OOO-Calc still offers a more familiar drop-down interface to my veteran Excel user than the new Excel. Hopefully OOO-Calc will leave the interface fairly stable as it moves forward.

Fly in the Ointment

[ThatsNotPudding]

From the quoted how-to:

The Windows 7 beta or RC releases were Ultimate edition, so youll only be able to upgrade to the RTM (final) if you are installing Ultimate Edition.

I already bought the XP Home to Win7 Home upgrade when it was pre-offered at $50, so I guess I'm out.