Slashdot Mirror
iPad Bait and Switch — No More Unlimited Data Plan
_KiTA_ writes "AT&T announced today that the iPhone will gain tethering, finally, at an extra $20 a month, but only for people on a new 2GB a month plan. They also quietly announced at the same time the real news — that the $30 Unlimited Data plan on the iPad 3G will be axed in lieu of the same data plan. Yes, this would be the same 'revolutionary data plan' that Steve Jobs was so proud of during the iPad unveiling — it lasted just a month after the 3G model was delayed to May 7. People feeling vibes of previous Apple iDevice releases are not alone. Existing accounts will be allowed to grandfather in, although Apple has removed the ability to purchase the iPad from the online store at this time, and AT&T has a history of changing its plans without warning. Finally, there is no word on what happens if you ever let your Unlimited plan lapse for a month at this time."
The tone is almost anti-Apple, but the content of TFS seems to be more anti-AT&T?
Congrats to the early adopters, I guess. Apparently, these two companies are making so much money that they can just do whatever they want now without repercussion.
I'm going to go out on a limb ... from just the summary it would appear that this has very little to do with actions from Apple and has to do with actions from AT&T. If we were required to pick a 'bad guy' in this situation the choice would clearly be AT&T. However, everyone knew it was just a matter of time before tiered data plans started and unlimited stopped as it just makes sense.
Yeah no...I get it...free and cheap is nicer...but I'd rather have the tiered data plan then have them go out of business and have nothing.
AT&T knows that it will lose its shirt selling unlimited dataplans in the long run, particularly on a device like the iPad which will probably be even worse for them in terms of bandwidth consumption than the iPhone. Still sucks though, and still has that unsavory characteristic of a bait-and-switch. Well folks, it looks like AT&T decided to show up for the "get rich quick off the iPad party" after all. He makes a foul guest.
Luxury prices. You want it, you get it, now shut up. I'll keep my PC, thankyouverymuch.
This has nothing to do with Apple, AT&T are doing this. I doubt Apple knew anything about this.
I think you've confused Apple and AT&T. This is an obvious sign that the new iPhone won't be AT&T exclusive. AT&T is trying to get a last minuet surge by allowing people that sign up by June 7th to get the old rates. When the new phone is announced AT&T's iPhone business will take a major hit
Outside of tech and telecom, are there any industries that can get away with "reserving the right" to "change the terms of this agreement without notice" or to sell products without "any implied fitness for merchantability or usefulness for any purpose"? Car companies and real estate deals could never operate with this kind of crap -- people just wouldn't stand for it.
AT&T is in no danger of going out of business offering unlimited plans. Bandwidth is measured in throughput, not transfer.
Of course, had Apple not produced a locked down, proprietary iPhone, we would have been tethering all along, and it would be easy to assign blame to AT&T. From where I sit, Apple is helping AT&T, and while they may not be the only company to do so, it is certainly not the case that Apple is completely innocent here.
Palm trees and 8
This isn't bait and switch- this is clearly STEVE JOBS' ORIGINAL VISION! Only now has technology caught up to his masterful insight, such that the product and the plans he always envisioned can be offered together!
2gigs times 0k/sec
At this rate we all have an unlimited plan!
I agree that losing the unlimited plan isn't great, and that the new plans should be set higher than 200MB and 2GB per month.
Other than that you are off base. You can purchase the iPad online at Apple's website. How would you like AT&T to notify you of changing plans? They are changing the plans with a week's notice, if you don't like the new plan you don't have to switch to it. Simple. The new 200MB plan would probably work for most people and save them money since they have wifi in their home and work. Comparing it to the price drop of the original iPhone is ridiculous.
I'm guessing you don't have an iPad, but just want to complain.
"We're not happy until you are not happy"
I spent a decade working with and for Apple, and the contract they'd have with the carriers would be so complex that sadly Apple would have been quite well aware of the distinct possibility these shenanigans might go on.
The way Apple's gone over the last couple of years has saddened me to the point of throwing in the towel, and I'm back in university now figuring out how to do something else.
I miss being directly involved with Apple, but I just can't trust Corporate anymore.
Can you blame AT&T, if I were losing money on a product..what do I do..I cut that product! or charge more. Simple mathematics, people need to learn that. Not to mention AT&T probably knew full well what the costs of this would be, and maybe there were some promises from apple behind the scenes and they didn't hold up their part of the bargain...we don't really know. You are an idiot if you don't think Apple knew about this before hand..I work at another large wireless provider, and all parties know changes like this before they come into effect, there are many changes that come into play to support moves like this.
Sorry but if you can grandfather in then where's the beef? Really, are you being forced into buying these devices, in some cases for an obnoxious amount of money, and then forced into buying full blown access plans?
Oh you are, I forgot, the price of being cool. Really for whom do you think the iPad was made, you? Try again. Try the publishers and providers. I watch as friends blow fifty to over a hundred a month on their phones/devices for access and start to get new respect for marketers.
If you have a business need then fine, get them to pay for it. But wants cost money. Either put up or shut up. Apple has convinced far too many that to be cool they have to have X and Y.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
At first like the submitter I thought this was only for the iPhone and iPad, but after checking the press release from AT&T it turns out it's for all Smartphones. So these are the new data plans for the iPhone, the iPad, the Nexus One (and all other Android phones), the N900 - everything.
AT&T claims that this will bring down bills for the average user, and I don't doubt this is true. However the better the Smartphone the easier it is to burn through data, so this seems to be a tactical strike against all high-end Smartphone users, and a blatant attempt to drive away iPad users (2GB for an entire month of browsing on a 10" device, really?). And this is timed to coincide with the launch of the next-gen iPhone, which is widely beleived to have a front-facing camera for video conferencing, which would burn through additional data. I also don't know how you're going to get away with significant video streaming on 2GB a month, but perhaps that's the idea?
Progress, it seems, is getting less for more. Ultimately the 5GB of data that actually came with an "unlimited" plan is now $25 + $30 in overages. It continues to amaze me just how far we've come since 2008...
well, this will put a crimp in whether to purchase that snazzy new iPhone purportedly coming out this month. Nice, AT&T. First we find out that yes, AT&T has a 5 year exclusive deal, so yes, you will only be able to buy the new iPhone on AT&T's crappy network because you'll be there for 2 years. But now with the 2GB cap (tethered only? Or do you have the option of the original unlimited without it? The TFA doesn't say) it all of a sudden becomes hmmmm, should I? Maybe a Droid isn't so bad after all despite its shortcomings in usability.
The long and the short of this one is: guess I won't jump to the phone I really wanted if there is no unlimited plan, as I'm not interested in getting walloped with that nice $1/MB or whatever they're charging as overrage fees.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
...it's all fun and stuff in the beginning until you hit reality. Next.
Tired of my customary (Score:1)
Yeah no...I get it...free and cheap is nicer...but I'd rather have the tiered data plan then have them go out of business and have nothing.
What makes you think that was the choice? Is AT&T on the verge of bankruptcy and I haven't heard?
I'm a bit tired of people implying that we should sympathize with these companies by saying, "But they had to screw our customers and engage in shady and unscrupulous behavior! The only other option is to give everything away for free, and they'd go out of business!" Meanwhile these companies are raking in billions of dollars in profit.
How is this insightful? is this Fox News? AT&T controls the network, Apple does not. Why would Apple care if you tether the iPhone? Apple wants you to use the iPhone, period.
By your failed logic, Apple would disallow tethering outside of the USA, which of course is not the case. This is simply AT&T dictating the use of their network.
Should've got an Android. They're a lot more helpful. They clean your house... and stuff.
They are in danger of becoming dumb, fat, pipes and then collapsing into Bertrand. Artificially restricting service to produce multiple levels is just the first step in a whole big plan to can-opener themselves back into a more powerful spot in the value chain for mobile.
Now they're just laughing at us.
I wonder if these changes were due to unexpected demand, and them knowing there's a larger amount of people who'll be happy to be gouged.
Waiting for an amusing sig.
So, they are producing two new dataplans that are cheaper then the current that they say cover 98% of their use base. To me, I think this means I'm going to at least save $5 a month here. Also, tethering is FINALLY announced! I'm excited with this news! I would like unlimited tethering but I work with technology and realize not all things are feasible as continued unlimited plans, especially with tethering, would destroy an already slammed network.
Slashdot seems to be missing reality here and the compromise that AT&T is making with their network. Ok, hit me with all your complaints about how evil something or other is.
Do you own an Iphone?
WTF? I just checked the Apple Store and you CAN buy iPads online.
Indeed. However it's worth noting that almost all of this information is based on reinterpreted rumor. I wouldn't be surprised to see a clarification within the next week or so that changes some of these details for the iPad.
iPhone though... well sure. This was a long time coming. I consider myself a moderate data user on 3G (lots of data but no streaming video/audio) and my usage has peaked at 540mb in a month, but usually sits around 300mb. I do all my email, push from work as well, so it's not as though I'm really a light user in disguise. Even better, with the $15 option I can cut my bill because my wife peaks at about 100mb a month usually sitting at about 50mb as she is home most of the time, well in range of Wi-Fi.
In the end I'll save $20 cutting down plan costs, just enough to enable tethering if I ever need it... though so far, I've never needed such a feature (Wi-Fi is everywhere around here and I don't travel.)
I do hope there is a clarification on iPad 3G. I can imagine Stevie's inbox is packed with "WTF" letters right now. Given the way the data plans were announced alongside the iPad, I would be surprised if Apple is happy about this change. In fact, one could construe this as an act by AT&T against Apple, supporting the rumors that Apple is going to produce iPhones for competing networks.
Exciting times!
I read the script, and I think it would help my character's motivation if he was on fire. -Bender
Don't rush your last minuets. Slow down and enjoy the waltz.
To Copy from One is Plagiarism; To Copy from Many is Research.
I'm going to go out on a limb ... from just the summary it would appear that this has very little to do with actions from Apple and has to do with actions from AT&T. If we were required to pick a 'bad guy' in this situation the choice would clearly be AT&T. However, everyone knew it was just a matter of time before tiered data plans started and unlimited stopped as it just makes sense.
Yeah no...I get it...free and cheap is nicer...but I'd rather have the tiered data plan then have them go out of business and have nothing.
Really? Have you read none of the articles on what the markup is for a Gigabyte of data bandwidth; on a text message? Please. Nobody is going to see AT&T go out of business. I hope they get their arses handed to them in a class action suit.
And when will slashdotters see that Apple is bad for the industry?
Because AT&T changed their data plans?
They want to control everything, require you to buy Mac OSX to develop for iPad and iPhone, charge a lot more for hardware than needed and do shit things like this.
How utterly controlling of Apple to let AT&T do something like this! Wait...
Apple is the new bad guy, not Microsoft.
Call me when Apple engages in even a tenth the shenanigans that MS has.
Nice troll - how do the points in your post have anything to do with TFA? AT&T is the culprit here.
Apple is the new bad guy, not Microsoft.
You're correct in that Microsoft can never be the "new bad guy" as they're the oldest bad guy on the block. Followed by Sony. And which of the two is worse will probably result in Sony being the winner at this point. (Since we're OT anyways, might as well bring in both "bad guys") And what do both these companies have in common? Their best days are behind them from the looks of things and both are screwing their customers over, damaging their reputations in the process. Finding something good about either one is virtually impossible.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
But it is easy to assign blame to AT&T. In the rest of the world we have tethering, and always have. We also have competition. Up here in Canada pretty much every cell carrier (at least all that carry smart phones) sell the iPhone, and you can tether. When my wife bought her new iPhone from Telus tethering was one of the promotional points they used to sell it to her. Not only that, but a telus rep helped her to figure out how to set up a VOIP system at home (through another company) with a "digital receptionist" feature that allows her to call home for free from anywhere in Canada and then connect over VOIP to anywhere in the world at the VOIP rate. I thought that was pretty decent.
So it's not exactly fair to say it's Apple's fault. What would be fair would be to ask why in the hell they're sticking with AT&T in the first place - it's like Randell Stephenson has some compromising pictures of Jobs with a goat. Or worse yet, Woz.
Seriously Apple WTF?
Credit card companies and airlines do these things quite often. Ever get a notice in the mail that your APR on your credit card went up? They just changed the contract. Ever had a flight canceled but be charged to reschedule? They changed the contract on you. All because they reserved the right in the original contract to do so. I am baffled, however, how any such contract can be considered legal and binding, it clearly favors one party to a ludicrous degree and provides no method for a resolution of changes for BOTH parties (one side dictates all the terms).
Let me do everybody a favor:
apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple
Ok, now that that's out of our system, can we talk about something else for once?
'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
I heart my Nexus 1. Not being tied to a carrier.
Shell out the bucks out front. You'll save it in the long run.
Please inform Supreme Commander Jobs that we have found another human immune to the Reality Distortion Field. He will be dealt with the usual way.
Same in the UK. "Unlimited" means whatever the company wants it to mean. It'd just take one successful lawsuit on behalf of consumers to stop this fraudulent practice, but the watchdog bodies (Ofcom in the uk) have no teeth, because they're just there to give the illusion of fairness between massive multinationals and consumers.
Phone companies have gone from being clueless about data (stupid prices (both high and low), outages which last weeks) to realising that it's another revenue stream. There's now a massive difference between what you'd likely to want to do on wifi vs 3g. I tend to top up my RSS feed at home/in places with wifi, and read offline, and turn of 3g in case it tries to pull more data down. This is retarded - effectively carrying around an expensive offline device!
I'm sure they'll work out some deal where everything you buy on your crippled tablet includes in the price the bandwidth used to download it. This price hike and bandwidth cap is just preliminary step to stick it to those freeloaders who are downloading free content, or selling you things outside of iTunes, which in both cases deprive Apple and AT&T of their rightful revenue.
isn't the whole point of tethering to allow other devices, possibly laptops or other, that will actually use full-fledged websites with flash video and whatnot, therefore increasing the amount of data transfer, which is now being much limited with the new plan?? what were they thinking??
Can I put a spell on those who can't spell?
Your wheels are loose and they're losing their grip, good you're there.
Everyone knew unlimited data would be cut?
Oh, right... You're talking of the US here. Never mind.
- These characters were randomly selected.
They want to control everything, require you to buy Mac OSX to develop for iPad and iPhone
Yeah, the bastards. Imagine i'd have to buy Windows to develop for the Windows Phone 7 platform. Or that i'd have to buy a PlayStation3 to play God Of War. No, Apple is clearly the bad guy here, how dare they impose such system requirements on us.
charge a lot more for hardware than needed and do shit things like this.
Yes, their profits are far higher than software companies. No wonder Microsoft still operates from Ballmer's basement, they practically *give* Windows and Office away.
The problem isn't Apple (or AT&T). Steve Jobs didn't hold a gun to anyone's head and force them to buy anything. The problem is with braindead consumers who will buy anything because they are told. You really can't blame the company for wanting to take advantage of that kind of behaviour. This is not to say that there isn't something wrong with the way Apple works. And telcos are about the worst companies in the universe next to oil companies. But to blame them for making a shitty product that sells is unfair: the problem is with self-destructive consumer behaviour that allows those companies to continue on doing what they're doing.
Of not being able to sit down the morning after.
I mean it. Screw them. Let's just take it over and give all their electrons away. We'll make it part of the U.S. Postal Service, and completely deny them and their shareholders of any more extortion money from us anymore. How's that for "bait and switch" AT&T? Citizens Not Shareholders: Screw Corporate Scum - eat the rich, soylent green is people. Get a sponge BP, its enema time.
OK guys, calm down.
If you already have an iPad, you can get grandfathered in, and AT&T /can not/ legally change your plan once you're on it (read your terms and conditions, it's in there. slamming and cramming = bad). Grandfathered plans /will not/ be removed unless the feature actually gets removed from your account.. and you (or someone with access to your account.. don't give out your SSN and/or passcode) are the only one who can authorize that.. (and if it gets removed by accident and it WASN'T authorized.. well.. it /can/ be added back.. you just need to get a manager to override it).
Furthermore.. iPhone tethering has always been available.. it's called a jailbreak. It's not hard. Just google "spirit jailbreak" and in less than 10 minutes you'll have Cydia and can download the tethering app of your choice, whether AT&T likes it or not. Poof, iPhone tethering with unlimited data, no need to wait for Apple to release OS4 to the iPhone and then get put on a 2gb plan for the iPhone as well -- keep your iphone unlimited data forever if you want. 3
I used to think Peter Shipley was cool. Then I aged past 16.
Going out of business?! Don't make me laugh. AT&T tripled their annual profit between 2005 to 2008, from $4 billion to $12 billion, all the while providing substandard service. Their 3G coverage is pathetic, and their substandard network was caused by purposeful underinvestment by management. It *doesn't* make sense for unlimited to stop, as HSPA+ uses the spectrum more efficiently than standard 3G, and AT&T should be beefing up the backhaul that they've been skimping on for the last 5 years.
Slashdotters have seen this for a long time. Unfortunately, many who complain about Apple get modded as troll and face the same old "if you don't like it, don't buy it" nonsense which completely ignores the potential damage that can result in the PC and Mobile device markets at large. It's rather like the game DRM discussions where people say don't buy blizzard or whatever game maker is installing ridiculous measures that manage to get cracked before it hits the store shelves. It's not about the publisher or manufacturer specifically, but rather it is about potential industry trends that we would like to see stopped before it catches on. And while it is true that the "don't buy it" thing sends a sort of message to people who are doing it or are interested in doing it, nothing says it better than massive complaints and comments directly from users here and later elsewhere and directly to the sellers which is what I, personally, advocate. After all, just not buying it means "someone is pirating it!"
Of course, had Apple not produced a locked down, proprietary iPhone, we would have been tethering all along, and it would be easy to assign blame to AT&T. From where I sit, Apple is helping AT&T
They're not just helping AT&T, they're in a symbiotic relationship.
Full disclosure, I own an iPhone.
Apple: "Customer, dear customer, you want tethering? Well, it's in the App Store from a company called Null River."
AT&T: "No it's not."
Average iPhone Customers: "What's tethering?"
Apple: "We pulled the app for review, but will bring it back shortly."
AT&T: "No you won't"
Customers: "Want tethering even MORE now!"
Apple: "If you buy the new iPhone 3Gs you can now get tethering!"
AT&T: "No you can't."
Apple: "If you buy the new iPhone 3Gs [in a country other than USA] you can now get tethering!"
Customers: "Tethering! *frothing* Tethering!"
Apple: "We worked out a remarkable deal with AT&T, and now you can tether! Buy an iPhone 4G today!"
Customers: "Tethering! See, I knew tethering would happen if I just bought enough iPhones!"
AT&T: "Sure, it's true, you can tether, but at a rate that it will be useless for laptops. And pay more for the reduced network bandwidth losers! Ahahahahaha!"
Apple: "Look at all these iPhone moneys! We can haz cheeseburger now."
Null River: "Um, what the hell happened?"
You do realize tethering for the iPhone is available outside the US, and has been for a long time?
I'm not sure that changing their pricing model quite qualifies as "unscrupulous." The decision to change their rate structure probably has more to do with long term planning and getting in on some of the action (in terms of people making tons of cash selling big media files over their networks to portable devices and them not seeing a dime from that) than anything else. If they are getting effectively screwed now (by all the value being created by their networks which they can't capture) imagine what it will be like with 4G and beyond when people really do start streaming large amounts of rich media.
Umm, my N900 does 3G fine. There is an option in your setting that'll switch down to "2.5" from 3G, which saves your battery if your not using telco data, like because your on pre-paid while traveling and/or use wifi all the time.
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
AT&T isn't losing money on their plans. They save a lot of it by not investing in the infrastructure necessary to provide the service they promise to the customers. It also doesn't make any sense for them to lower the price for most people while cutting the cap by less. I've got an unlimited data plan with them and I'm averaging somewhere around 250mb so far on my data plan. I'd have to increase my consumption quite a bit to come anywhere near running out of space on this possible new plan.
And quite a few casual users are in the same boat. Not that it makes it right if they go through with it, but most people will likely end up spending less money on their data plan than they do now. Gaining tethering would be worth it for quite a few of them. But really what needs to happen is that the FCC needs to step in and tell companies that they can't call it unlimited if you can't tether and that you can't charge people for bandwidth and then tell them how they can use it.
And thus the $20 extra charge for tethering. There was no need to cut the $30/unlimited plan just to introduce tethering. Anyone giving this even the slightest thought knew that AT&T was going to charge a huge surcharge to enable tethering.
This has nothing to do with Apple, AT&T are doing this.
If this truly had nothing to do with Apple, iPhone and iPad users could jump ship to T-mobile.
What's Microsoft got to do with it? You can have more than one bad guy, you know. But AT&T is, in my experience, just plain evil, although maybe not as evil as Sony (what other company has deliberately planted malware on its paying customers' PCs?).
This is par for the course for AT&T, who have a long sorry history of screwing over their paying customers; I was once one when they took over Cingular and my bill started going through the roof.
AFAIC almost all corporations are bad guys. Some are just worse than others. I'm no Apple fan and don't even have an iPod, but I don't think you can blame this one on Apple.
Free Martian Whores!
it's been available in the us, via jailbreaking
Steve Jobs and his inner circle at Apple must have known this all along. I can see Steve Jobs conspiring with AT&T, something like this, with Steve Jobs doing all the talking: As soon as the iPad proves itself, as soon as we sell two million ipads, we can jack the prices up and suck some more money out of the bastards. Trust me fellows, I have been doing it like forever at the Apple iTunes Store. Can't wait for the Android and Microsoft tablets to hit the market, open system, true open systems, to be available at all carriers. this Apple monopoly needs to stop right now! DOJ, FCC, FTC please investigate AT&T and especially Apple !!!
Bertrand Competition assumes no colluding or price fixing, intelligent consumers, no lock-in, and no long term contracts.
The connection providers will play games with consumers forever.
Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
You want to tether with your iPhone? You must pay a tethering fee of $20. BTW, you need to change plans to a limited data plan; 2GB of data per month for $25 per month. If you go over your limit the cost is $10 per 1 GB.
...so there's no more carrot for them to keep chasing. If Apple's going to be selling iPhones through Verizon, and possibly even Sprint, then what's AT&T's reason for keeping this sweetheart data plan?
This is disappointing, and using 2G of data on an iPad in a month is easy. I tried the 250MB plan, and hit that limit in 3 days. With a phone 2GB should be enough, because you generally don't surf the big sites, you use the lighter mobile sites. On the iPad you surf the full sites, and end up downloading more graphics etc.... I like my iPhone, but the Sprint 4G phone looks really attractive.
Dear SmallFurryCreature, In a capitalist society commodities are to be sold at lower prices due to competition. Although Sprint, AT&T, T-Mobile may be 'competitors' they are rather an oligopoly. There is no true competition. In a capitalist society monopolies and oligopolies are usually the things people hate most. So yes, your right, they can charge whatever they want. If they were the only person to offer this service (data) because of a new technology, let them earn their money. But no, cellular data has been around for quite a while, and the oligopoly is just raking in the cash at every opportunity. Text messaging prices have INCREASED despite the fact that text messages cause NO effect on the network. So before you say 'this is the way things work in a socialist/capitalist market' consider the fact that its actually not a capitalist situation because there is no true competition. Regards, Rukie Dear AT&T, I hate you. Regards, Your Customer.
Support the source, Open Source! An entire site developed with OSS
What's wrong with wanting to make money "hand over fist"?
Screw AT&T - take your Nexus One you've got on AT&T's network and get a plan from Verizon!
Oh, it doesn't work on Verizon. Well, fuck that - go to Sprint!
Oh, it doesn't work on Sprint either. Damn it, go use T-moboile!
Oh, it won't do data on their high speed network.
See, even if you buy your own hardware, the lack of cellular data standards will fuck you over anyway. Unless, of course, you want to buy another unsubsidized phone, in which case you can pay an extra $600 (=$25/mo for two years) to switch.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Of course, had Apple not produced a locked down, proprietary iPhone, we would have been tethering all along, and it would be easy to assign blame to AT&T. From where I sit, Apple is helping AT&T, and while they may not be the only company to do so, it is certainly not the case that Apple is completely innocent here.
Since Verizon and Sprint don't use GSM like the rest of the world, "being locked down to AT&T" in the US means "not making a separate, completely different model from what the rest of the world uses for Verizon and Sprint". It's not as easy as just having an exclusivity deal expire. Using different networks is one way the US carriers can avoid having the market be as competitive as in Europe.
Apple is the one that has required that you use AT&T if you want to use their products.
Anybody want to start the countdown until a new model iMac has an AT&T lock-in too? Maybe just a entry-level model, but still...
Apple products are lovely, but their business model is ugly and hostile.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Didn't Apple mention a plan with T-Mobile also being in the works / done? Perhaps this could be a blessing in disguise in terms of carrier choice?
Are you secure enough in your masculinity to run 'man touch'?
We have a cartoon for that.... ;)
http://www.withbigstick.com/cartoons/15/
No. Both are bad. The fact that Apple is evil won't make Microsoft less dirtier.
Btw, it is funny, i didn't even see the name of the parent when read his post. (first post, defending M$? --> should be sopssa, CHECK).
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
While you might like to give Apple a pass for the evils of AT&T. Let's not forget the reason this is news at all is because of Apple's insistence on a single network for it's devices. If it had opened the device up to all network providers then we would all ho-hum it and move to another provider. It's Apple's desire to maximize it's control and limit options that is the true culprit here. And if they didn't foresee this as a potential issue shame on them.
What would be fair would be to ask why in the hell they're sticking with AT&T in the first place
Maybe Apple likes to keep its customers lubed up for the next time it wants to pound them in the ass.
Then don't use them. People act like this is hard or something. Apple is not heroin, it's just capitalistic.
This is so hilariously out-of-touch with reality that your previous statement now makes perfect sense.
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
> Apple is the new bad guy, not Microsoft.
There can, of course, only ever be one bad guy in the world at any given time.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Indeed; screwing over customers is the way most businesses manage to run themselves out of business. I, for one, would cheer if AT&T went out of business; they're the worst phone company I ever had the displeasure of doing business with.
Meanwhile I now get unlimited talk, long distance, roaming, voice mail, text, email, internet, and 411 (and probably something else I couldn't think of) from my present provider for $50 per month with no contract. My phone has GPS but I'd probably have to pay extra to use it. Eat your hearts out, AT&T customers. SUCKERS!!!!
Free Martian Whores!
Anyone succeeded in jailbreaking an iPad yet? I'm guewssing the new SIM arrangement might be a showstopper...
Oh well, I guess the iPad is no use to me without a real OS on it anyway...
Just as an additional point, you could also make the argument that in extreme case wireless network service providers conform to the specifications of natural monopolists, and that the existence of multiple firms covering the same geographic areas is just an aberration. The costs are in building the networks, not operating them. At some point when it is possible to build a network that has sufficient capacity to meet regional demand, there will be no reason to have two of them, let alone three of them (or four of them, or more of them). I for one see no reason why wireless ISPs wouldn't end up as government regulated regional monopolists within the next 10-15 years, if that.
And if there is sufficient competition, they won't succeed. In a functioning free market, the price of their service should approach the cost of offering it. If they are able to artificially restrict service, then it's obvious more competition is needed.
You are right. What's interesting here is that the result can be the same as that of perfect competition but with a duopoly. In this case it would be very difficult if not impossible for a company to decide today that they want to be a national wireless service provider built on their own infrastructure. The problem is even if they could finance the construction of all of the network infrastructure they would never be able to compete on price. They would have to pay off the debt they used to construct the network, but they are competing against companies that have been amortizing those costs over a decade or more. They wouldn't have a prayer.
..and there have always been limits on data with tethering on AT&T.
Now, that doesn't mean that you couldn't skirt the rules if you were careful. I "tethered" (via WMWiFiRouter) on my Fuze for the last 1.5 years using a $20 legacy data/msg plan that I had on my account from 4 years ago. I didn't use much data, so I never got caught.
But, by rights, I should have had a $30 data plan and a $20 tethering surcharge - it's right on the mobile website billing page. And tethering accounts have always had 5GB limits.
iPhone users take a shitload of bandwidth, and I suspect that AT&T has found out that iPad users are even worse (not surprising, it's a better surfing platform). Now, they're going to let all those Coffee House surfers tether to their MacBooks? Talking about shitting a brick sideways.
The question is - will they use the money to build out the network, or will it just line the CxO pockets? I suspect a bit of both.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Unlimited is a myth. Companies and governments who promise such things are lying to you. If a deal is too good to be true....it is too good to be true. You may benefit in the short term, but in the long term, they'll either change the rules (they lied) or they'll go out of business (you lose).
Companies try to steal from you by promising you more than they will deliver.
You try to steal from companies by getting more than you pay for.
It's a stupid game.
nor is it enforceable.
It's enforceable if paying what the contract says would cost an individual customer less than hiring a lawyer to get a judge to declare it unenforceable.
Because AT&T changed their data plans?
Because they carrier locks the iPad.
How utterly controlling of Apple to let AT&T do something like this! Wait...
See point one. If i could just switch carriers it wouldn't be much of an issue, but as it stand here in the US if you want a particular phone, you get to choose which ever carrier has it.
Call me when Apple engages in even a tenth the shenanigans that MS has.
Will do, and at the recent rate, you can probably even hold your breath and be fine.
All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
And once you create this competition, I will be the first to sign up for your cheaper, unlimited bandwidth. The free market is as much an idealized unattainable as the Star Trek no money communism utopia. It is great, in theory, but simply put, the cost of entry into most markets is too high, and thus a truly free market will never exist, because those in the market want to keep competition to a minimum.
Pretty much the same thing can be said about democracy I suppose.
AT&T has made you look like a chump. Apple, certainly, but you personally as well. You gonna let them do that and not react to it? A competitor to AT&T for the iPad and iPhone might take the starch out of their shorts. Think about it.
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
Nice troll - how do the points in your post have anything to do with TFA? AT&T is the culprit here.
Go and try and get your iPad/phone service from tmobile. ohh right, it's carrier locked. If you go to an apple store can you buy one that isn't? will they unlock it for you? Thats why apple is "bad", they are letting ATT do this to thier customers. They could just push an upgrade that unlocked the iPad, and would look like heroes, but they don't.
All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
(on AT&T)
Tethering has always been more.
There have always been limits
-tethering was limited by the TOS
-a USB modem plan was $55 for 5GB (which is what the iPad is)
-a USB modem plan was $30 for 200MB
Apple forced a sweetheart deal on data with the iPhone so it would really shine (can you imagine an iPhone without data?), and AT&T's reputation suffered as a result of the onslaught of data usage.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
I pay t-mobile $30/mo for unlimited data. They allow tethering. There's no $20/mo tethering fee. They also plan to upgrade their 3G network to be faster than the next-generation 4G networks coming out now, so I'll be ahead of the curve for 2 or 3 years yet.
Support my political activism on Patreon.
apple apple apple apple apple apple apple apple
I thought it was "badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger mushroom mushroom".
Oh wait, Apple doesn't like Flash.
Wow, dude. You have a lot of anger. Did you forget your meds this morning?
They are in danger of becoming dumb, fat, pipes and then collapsing into Bertrand.
What makes you think they'll go Bertrand and not Cournot?
By your failed logic, Apple would disallow tethering outside of the USA, which of course is not the case. This is simply AT&T dictating the use of their network.
This isn't exactly true. iPhone doesn't have tethering either here in France for instance; of course, I am not aware of every place in the world, but as tethering is available on android phones, and it doesn't seem to bother network operators, I wouldn't say that Apple is completely unblamable.
If I'm wrong, please correct me ; learning is better than being right.
How much does immigration cost?
To think this would not happen is honestly a little dumb. With how many iPhones are out there and how many people are still wanting to get iPhones, it was only a matter of time before AT&T decided to make extra money off of them.
I am glad I don't have an iPhone and that all my apps can be loaded through a microSD card for free.
Sometimes you have to pay the price to hop into the trends of today. Go ahead and get an Apple product, but you will pay an arm and a leg for it, even if the cost is not coming from Apple themselves
The world is how you make it
http://www.withbigstick.com/cartoons/15/
If you're limited to 2GB of data, and half of that data turns out to be web-based advertising you don't want, then call up AT&T customer service *every time* you download an ad, and demand a credit to your 2GB limit.
After all, if you started getting unwanted text messages every time you got on your phone, and you were paying 20 cents per text message, I bet you'd call them up to demand a credit. Or let's say you recieved long, unsolicited sales calls about buying time-shares or something on your cell, which you are paying airtime for, and I bet you'd complain.
So, the only way to get them to change is to cost them a zillion dollars in customer service time by calling them up EVERY TIME you download an ad. Otherwise, you're paying twice.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
You sir are naive. So you're telling me AT&T so intertwined in business with Apple you could call them bedmates, didn't even bother to send a phone call over to about a new iPimp tethering plan? LOL. Atleast I can get a good laugh on a Wednesday!
What AT&T isn't telling us is that visual voicemail counts towards data usage, which is why it was unlimited in the first place. Now, i could easily reach my limit just listening to voicemail calls. It's ridiculous. Not to mention charging an additional $20 just to add the ability to tether but no additional data. AT&T is making a big mistake...but unfortunately they are an oligopoly so there's not much we can do...
My iPhone has always had tethering, out of the box, no jailbreaking, on my carrier. Supported by Apple, in the iPhone OS. No need for an extra app.
Don't blame Apple for AT&T's decisions, except perhaps the exclusive supplier deal which will hopefully lapse soon and US customers can start to get the sort of options that most of the world had from launch day.
I did buy the Wifi one, knowing full well that I would rather pay $60 a month for the ability to move to a Mifi or tether off my iPhone (I have no intention on paying them to jailbreak and use a better wireless tether solution).
This is pure bullshit though. The $30 a month plan with unlimited (pure unlimited no cap) was a HUGE selling point to the 3G iPad.
Honestly though folks, this is right up there with Verizon's move to push everyone (EVERYONE) into an extra $10 a month for data, even people that want no data and are asking for all data to be turned off. This is what happens in an unregulated industry full of greed. You get unreasonably high voice plan costs and ridiculous text messaging costs and efforts to cut customers off at the knees over time. Wait till LTE is released for both Verizon and AT&T and see how ridiculous that will be. At that point you should have a unified voice and data plan (LTE pushes voip over data unifying the connection), but I'm willing to sure as hell bet they continue charging for both separate and Verizon trying to get you to pay $10 a month for data. Assuming 4G catches on with Sprint, expect them to introduce a cap to that service (currently they sell you on unlimited 4G access with a cap on 3G access on the same plan). It's ridiculous but they have all of the US by the balls and no one is standing up to this crap.
I tether my Moto Droid to my laptop (really handy when hotels wants to charge for Wi-Fi). I can listen to Slacker, Pandora, etc while using other apps. I can install any kind of Android app from any vendor regardless of whether Google approves of it or not. And once I update to Froyo, I'll be able to visit Flash websites that iPhone/iPad can't (despite Apple's claim of having the 'entire web in my hands'). If those are usability issues, then by all means, keep 'em coming.
In the UK you can tether the iPhone on O2, Orange and Vodafone, and have been able to on O2 for a very long time - at least as long as I have had my 3G.
The phone supports it by default, with no need for extra software. It's the carrier that controls whether it is switched on.
I actually was waiting to pick up a 3G one strictly because of the unlimited plan. Not anymore. Now I'm in no hurry to get one period and I won't be getting the 3G model if I do. Gee it's got all these great 3G features just don't use them! There's no way this is a sudden change in plans so they knew before the 3G release this was going to happen. AT&T is whining about the fact people are actually using this device where as they normally collect fees for bandwidth that largely goes unused. Still they refuse to let go of their death grip and allow some competition. It's about time the government got involved. Lot's of people are going to buy the 3G iPad because they heard of the unlimited plan, possibly from Steve Jobs himself. They'll be in for a shock when they try to sign up for the plan. I'm sure sales reps will tell them if they ask but trust me none of them will offer up "hey did you hear they dropped the unlimited plan?"
You know that the iPhone 3G tethers, right?
Mine does, and I don't need any extra software, it's built right into the OS.
You can artificially introduce competition by requiring the companies that own the infrastructure to lease it at a fair price to competitors (or you could tell them to sort it out themselves, without the need for legislation).
MVNO.
My wife has an iPhone and we're getting a 3G iPad, and I'm really pleased with this. For the iPad, I expect to use the 3G only occasionally, so being able to upgrade to 2GB for $25 seems like a better deal than unlimited for $30. My wife uses nowhere near 200MB a month, so she'll be able to cut her data plan price in half. I wish she could have the iPad data plan, instead of having to pay $15 for each 200MB if she goes over, but you can't have everything.
More importantly, I'm really glad AT&T has gotten rid of unlimited plans. Their 3G network is a finite resource, and a small percentage of users were using huge amounts of bandwidth to the detriment of all. If they want to keep doing that, they should pay more for it than normal users who just want to check email, browse websites, etc.
-Esme
As far as I know, there is a jailbreak for the iPad, there was a dude here in Nepal with one running on local telcom prepaid sim, which was just cut to fit the mini-sim holder. All of the above sounds nuts, as anyone outside of the AT&T dominion can just jailbreak and tether an iphone in about 15 minutes, and just pop in a local sim card and away you go. Outside of the US, you own your phone and can do whatever you want with it.
I think therefore I can't be ~TTNH
Yes, this has happened before in almost the same industry with long distance lines and local service provider colocation.
It's been confirmed that the Verizon-iPhone rumor is DOA.
http://www.ozcarguide.com/business-money/business-technology/3059-verizon-iphone-4g-apple-att
There's a spot in User Info for World of Warcraft account names? Really?
Thanks for the insight.
Still, it is interesting that in France tethering is only available by jailbreak for the iPhone, or with Android with no additional software.
If I'm wrong, please correct me ; learning is better than being right.
Because AT&T changed their data plans?
Because they carrier locks the iPad.
In the US, the iPhone is carrier locked to AT&T. The iPad is not.
This
What makes you think that US wireless service (or much of any other U.S. industry for that matter) is a functioning free market?
It's huge companies operating in a virtual trust structure. You have no real choice... just varying degrees of bad.
How is tethering any different from normal data usage? Or, why do you have to pay more for your device to route requests from a local network (created via WiFi, BT, Ethernet, Usb, whatever) to a wide area network?
Do you pay more to your ISP if you connect a router and two different computers? No? So why should you pay more to use the connection you pay for in any device you want?
The point here is that the iPhone is (obviously) capable of routing. It shouldn't matter what the network says. You connect it to your computer, your computer should be able to use the network through the phone. Every smartphone I know of does that. Apple is at fault here just because they don't let you do what your phone can do unless you get permission from the network operator. But hey, that's another revenue stream for everybody, right? Who cares if the consumer gets screwed? AFAIK, American consumers are already used to being screwed by the mobile companies, so it's all right!
Yeah! And BP *had* to ignore all those safety protocols or else they wouldn't have been profitable and they would have gone out of business. Let's forgive them too! After all, they only way the could have survived was to dump 800 gazillion gallons of oil into a Louisiana swamp. And then run away.
In other words, I agree. Stop apologizing for giant corporations who happily screw you in the name of profits. The CEO of AT&T probably makes enough in bonuses alone to pay for everyone's unlimited data plans. He probably spends more on lunch than you make in a year. This year's new yacht could probably cover everyone's data plans handily.
Stop being apologists. Those guys can get by on normal salaries just like you and me. They won't starve to death if they are forced to only make a million a year instead of 20 million. If executive pay weren't so ludicrous, I'm sure large companies would be even more profitable, and yet, you're happliy giving them even more of your money in return for even less -- just so a few can retain their mansions, and the company can be even more profitable doing less.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
Not so fast, read the arbitration clause.
I personally think this is AT&T accepting the reality that they're just an access to the pipes, and nothing else. And acceptance that they're not gonna be able to charge for minutes in the future, so they might as well start charging for data the same way they used to charge for minutes. With video conferencing around the corner, they want to make sure they can dip into that market and skim out some profits. While I'm not saying this is a good thing for the customer right now, it might be a good trend for how a cellphone provider presents themselves as a service provider. It used to be that the cellphone company provided the device, locked down the software, and had control of how much you used what feature on the phone. Now, thanks to iPhone, Android and demand, they don't have any more control over this. The only option they have is to charge for the one service we ultimately need, data.
Or maybe they should just do what they're supposed to: sell bandwidth as the commodity that it is, and stop fucking around with the bits when other people are using it for commerce.
They seem to think they are in competition with Internet cafes instead of broadband providers. The result is that mobile internet is strictly for fashion victims.
need a free COBOL editor for Windows?
Sell me the data, and let me decide what device I uses it. Why should there be an extra charge if I use a bigger screen?
Indeed. The Iphone finally has tethering? Why, it's just caught up with the dirt cheap feature phone I bought five years ago, that I threw away in the trash six months ago.
I wish I could have one data plan and it cover the iPhone and iPad. Actually, tired of having all these add-on services all together. Instead, one price: free calls/text/data/tethering/drinks/burgers/collectable totebag, that's what AT&T needs. Kinda glad the store was sold out of iPad WiFi+3G's yesterday when I stopped by to finally get it.
-rr
Stable / Unstable .... Doesn't matter he's on /. and defending Apples honor so naturally he deserves mod points for his blind passion.
I had a friend who was an IT journalist, released an article about a virus discovered on OSX, poor guy received death threats from nutters like this.
The day Steve Jobs dies, people like the OP, will erect the "Church of Steve Jobs" similar to that of the "Church of Elvis Presley". Kind of depressing but sadly will be a reality.
Not so fast, read the arbitration clause.
The first phase of a class action suit would be to get a judge to throw out the arbitration clause. Judges do that sort of thing.
Putting moderation advice in your
After all, just not buying it means "someone is pirating it!"
This.
We really have no way of communicating our concerns to Apple other than protest. If we all stopped buying iPads without saying why, Apple could interpret this as:
A) We're all waiting for the iPad 2.0
B) We are afraid of the freedom in the Apple store and want a more streamlined experience before we'll feel safe again
C) The AT&T plan is too expensive and we want an even more restricted one that costs $2 less
D) Google has drugged our groundwater
Etc, etc, etc. If you assume they'll come to the same conclusions that you did without you're input, you're not thinking it through.
(what other company has deliberately planted malware on its paying customers' PCs?)
Energizer, surprisingly enough.
The title might as well be Apple versus Microsoft versus Google
Seems of late Google has been inching its way up the ladder.
a blatant attempt to drive away iPad users (2GB for an entire month of browsing on a 10" device, really?
Yes, REALLY.
When you consider that most of the time you'd be using the iPad somewhere like home or a hotel - with WiFi.
For most users, 2GB is actually plenty for a months worth of use. And if it's not, they simply pay more for what they need.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Unfortunately in the US (and many other countries), this would involve jailbreaking the iPhone.
...Do you pay more to your ISP if you connect a router and two different computers?...
There was a time that every large cable and DSL provider would cripple your connection if they detected a router connected to your modem. For them to un-cripple it (that is, allow the MAC address of your router on their network), many of them charged ridiculous fees. They would often charge more based on the number of computers you told them you were connecting (only idiots were truthful).
As far as I know the iPad is not carrier locked, so if you don't like AT&T's plan, feel free to find another provider.
I think peoples frustration with all this is that chosing a cell phone provider in the USA is a choice between dumb, dumb and dumber - as soon as you think you have a good deal they do something to make you question their grip on reality.
At some point wireless networks will have capacity that far exceeds demand, and the carriers will collapse into a price war.
Will that occur before or after wired Internet networks have capacity that far exceeds demand and the wired Internet carriers collapse into a price war?
Bertrand competition requires a market where "a firm could gain the whole market", but both the wireless network market and the wired Internet network market are explicitly regulated to preclude that very possibility.
I'd rather have the tiered data plan then have them go out of business and have nothing.
You'd rather a major carrier went out of business? Well, that might wake up the others, but it doesn't seem likely. Then again, neither did Enron or Citibank.
The reality is in this day and age, all internet pipes are pretty much the same. Or at least they should be unless the company screws up their own network design somehow. The only difference, in reality, is if a network is oversold or not, other than that all networks are the same pretty much. So basically everyone is selling dumb, fat pipes to everyone. The only issue is who actually has more bandwidth and isn't over selling their network and promising you pie in the sky about bandwidth they don't really have.
The free market is as much an idealized unattainable as the Star Trek no money communism utopia.
Since pretty much every incarnation of Star Trek depicted the use of "money" (i.e., a token that has no intrinsic value of its own, but has been defined to have value by the government), I guess the free market is quite attainable.
What confuses people is that 95% of Star Trek episodes are set on the ship or in a diplomatic situation. On current US warships, sailors don't need money for very much other than gambling among themselves...meals are free, etc. Why should the starship Enterprise be any different?
In diplomatic situations, the host country (planet) doesn't make the guests pay for their food and entertainment at the state dinners, and often lets them use housing that is set aside for such occasions.
But, the crew paid for food and drinks in restaurants and bars, tribbles cost money to purchase, and bribes were paid for information.
On an individual scale, that's correct. But average it out over their entire subscriber base, and the two become indistinguishable. Limiting the transfer total is very much simpler and fairer than limiting bandwidth (do you really want unlimited transfer hobbled at 2400 baud?)
Yes, right after Netflix announces an iPad app.
You mean the one I've been using since launch of the iPad?
Heck, Wired's ipad app is apparently 300MB. That's 1/6 of your monthly allotment of data.
Which most people would download on WiFi instead of 3G. In fact come to think of it, you are REQUIRED to download anything above a certain size (200MB I believe) on a WiFi network.
More Slashdot "wisdom" from someone who doesn't know how what they are commenting on works.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If it matters to anyone, I just checked with my iPad and was able to upgrade from the 250meg plan to the unlimited plan. So, I suggest that if anyone who has an iPad and thinks they will want the unlimited plan, just go ahead and get it now... AT&T has said they will not force anyone over to the new plans, so go ahead, get it while you still can.
That's what they are afraid of. If their bits are commoditized, they wont make nearly as much money. Don't worry though, if it's going to happen, there probably isn't anything they can do to stop it in the long run. In the short run however, "the death star strikes back"
Yeah, maybe dealerships should start selling cars and charging by the mile since they don't see a dime off the products and services delivered by people using those cars! /s
So, they are producing two new dataplans that are cheaper then the current that they say cover 98% of their use base. To me, I think this means I'm going to at least save $5 a month here. Also, tethering is FINALLY announced! I'm excited with this news!
This is like the culmination of everything bad about Slashdot, distilled down to the essence of why the general posting population have got the tech market so wrong for about a decade now.
It's yet another "No wireless. Less space than a nomad moment" except that instead of involving the most basic of deductive reasoning to see why a product might be popular and avoid embarrassingly bad prognostication, here as you say a product is suddenly cheaper for 95% of tens of millions of iPhone users, and on top of that you FINALLY have the ability to tether which people have been (rightfully) bitching about for ages. And instead of saying "finally AT&T lowers prices a bit" you get a flood of whining because you cannot have enough bandwidth to stream a full 1080p HD rip of a movie per day on your PHONE!
I mean, the fact the price is lower is right there. It doesn't take The Great Randi to think that tens of millions of people not using more than 500k/month outside WiFi coverage might just enjoy a cheaper plan, or that it might actually DRIVE sales to have a cheaper plan.
If you want high hilarity, apply the fortune cookie trick to the many insane posts on this story - simply add "Cheaper data plan..." in front of every complaint. Some examples from current top rated posts:
Cheaper data plan... will put a crimp in whether to purchase that snazzy new iPhone!
Cheaper data plan means... you are unhappy!
Cheaper data plan... still sucks though, and still has that unsavory characteristic of a bait-and-switch.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
FYI, existing data plan users can login to wireless.att.com and view a histogram summary by month of their last 6 months of data usage. Look for "View Past Data Usage" in roughly the middle of the page under the "Usage & Recent Activity" section.
I just checked my own usage: in the last 6 months I have come pretty close to the cheap plan's 200 MB every month and I exceeded that limit last month at 240 MB. So, if I do switch to one of the new plans, it will probably be the 2 GB. I don't want to have to wonder about whether my data will just stop or have an extra $20 to pay for a month if I go over.
...Meanwhile I now get unlimited talk, long distance, roaming, voice mail, text, email, internet, and 411 (and probably something else I couldn't think of) from my present provider for $50 per month with no contract. My phone has GPS but I'd probably have to pay extra to use it. Eat your hearts out, AT&T customers. SUCKERS!!!!
Yeah right. I call BS.
Every link you browse on the web, with metered data, is a bit like a collect call. Collect call from ads.adservice.com, do you accept the charges? The flaw here is the mobile browser that blindly screams, "YES! Yes, I accept the charges!" and follows all those links. What is untenable in a metered data universe is a locked down platform where you cannot run ad blockers and other general purpose filtering plugins or applications on your device, which you purchased, and for which you pay continuing usage fees.
Who is your present provider? And are you on some special grandfathered-in plan, or is the same deal available for new users?
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
's wallet.
When in the course of phone maker events it becomes necessary for one to dissolve the carrier lockin which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal availability to which T-Mobile, Verizon and Sprint entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of users requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to that separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all phone users are created equal, that they are endowed by Apple with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are bandwidth, throughput and not the pursuit of coverage. -- That to secure these rights, contracts are instituted amongst Apple, deriving their powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of contract becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Contract, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Cellphone Contracts long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Contract, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Such has been the patient sufferance of Apple and iPhone users; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Carrier availability. The history of the present AT&T is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these users. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
Yes, this would be the same 'revolutionary data plan' that Steve Jobs was so proud of during the iPad unveiling
Whoa there. Did you forget what was ACTUALLY revolutionary about the plan, and still holds true? It was right there is BOLD LETTERS in your own link:
iPad to Run on AT&T Network But With No Contract
The fact that the plan was "unlimited" with the standard cell phone data cap definition of "unlimited", never entered into the picture.
Only now the contractless plan with the larger bandwidth cap is cheaper, for everyone that wants to switch to it, or for new customers.
And here you are, bitching about users saving money. Really?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
...But really what needs to happen is that the FCC needs to step in and tell companies that they can't call it unlimited if you can't tether and that you can't charge people for bandwidth and then tell them how they can use it.
Right, like they stepped in and told the companies that they can't call it unlimited when they are going to disconnect you when you reach a secret 5GB cap. Screw tethering, give me the damn unlimited that you sold me.
But if you don't buy it, at least when it comes to software, then you must be pirating it rather boycotting it. At least that is what every software company will tell you when the sales on their software are down. So voting with your money doesn't seem to work either.
Sure, the iPhone is capable of routing like any other computer, but the iPhone doesn't route tethered IP transmissions. It opens a tunnel to the provider's network, which then facilitates any necessary routing. Interestingly, at least with my provider, tethered computers do not even end up on the same network as the phone.
Which essentially makes it a pay as you go situation. Think about it - ADDITIONAL gigabytes cost less than the first 2 do. So essentially you're paying $10 per gigabyte anyways with a mandatory 2GB per month purchase + $5 service fee.
And I'm sorry, but $10 per GB is a pretty shitty rate. Sure, it's mobile, but we're entering into the day and age when "mobile" usage doesn't differ from at home usage in bandwidth needs at all. When Comcast and other land-line ISP's are giving you prices at less than $0.50 per GB, the AT&T rate is just appalling.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
...If they are getting effectively screwed now (by all the value being created by their networks which they can't capture)...
Well that's a mighty big "if", isn't it? Who the hell says they're supposed to "capture" all the "value" created by their networks? Why isn't it enough that they're making money by providing a service?
If you actually read the AT&T press release you'll find that this applies to all smartphone data plans. It's not just about iPhones. They're basically changing the iPad plans to match.
As of right now, Apple's iPad product page still refers to unlimited data plans. It's hard to imagine AT&T didn't notify Apple that this is coming, but it almost looks like they don't know.
I have been waiting for data plan prices to become more reasonable
Well then here you go! The plan is $5/month cheaper now over what it was! Don't you have WiFi in your home at all to avoid using only the data network? Have you ever looked at your ACTUAL monthly data usage on a smart phone? Mine is not even close to 2GB/month, even using tethering.
In fact if you do have WiFi and are mostly doing stuff around WiFi, you might well opt for the even CHEAPER DataPlus plan -just 200MB/month on the cell network, but it's also only $15 instead of $25 (and remember the current plan was $30). For those who mostly use WiFi, isn't it nice to have a choice? I mean, Slashdot in general seems to say they are about choice, but when an actual choice is presented they growl like a rabid ferret.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Right. I'm paying 9,90€ a month for my data plan, which includes a second sim (and 3G usb stick). I got the slowest (384) and cheapest one, which may have been a mistake, as a bit more throughput would be nice. Nevertheless, I've apparently transmitted 15GB last month (and no, I didn't torrent anything). I think normally I would transmit about 2-4 GB, but last month I had to depend on mobile data a lot.
The 2GB limit sounds pretty awful, considering.
As a side note, my old 2G (Nokia) mobile phone seems to offer more stable network than the new 3G modem. The most annoying part is that the phone connects to the network in 3 seconds (even after reboot), but the 3G (Huawei) modem takes about 1 minute, if it connects at all. Updating the firmware didn't help. I think the problem may be in the connection software, but haven't found a good alternative.
It is what it is.
Yes it's true. 40 days after the introduction of unlimited ipad use, the unlimited program is shut down. But wait there's more! Now companies like NBC aren't hopping on the iPad bandwagon. Supposedly NBC told Apple it won’t be making any of its online shows iPad-compatible anytime soon. And it’s not alone. Here's a link to the article I found http://theinvestmentreporter.wordpress.com/recent-news/
On a recent trip overseas, I was able to use a SIM and try out the 3G (haven't tried it in the US yet). I was on vacation, so probably spent as more time online than I would off-vacation, but my average was 100MB per day. At that rate, that's 3GB per month, which would be about $30 in the new plan. Makes me nervous, but perhaps it really is a bit of a money-saver on average.
Well, this is the problem, isn't it? Who wants to sell fat, dumb pipes?
The cable cos figured this out fairly quickly. First, CATV was a way to deliver better reception; a fat, dumb pipe. Then cable got alternative programming, then exclusive or premium programming, then pay-per-view. Video is pretty much tapped out since Interactive TV failed, and along comes the Internet. A way to sell the same pipe again. Yes, it needed bigger pipes, but that's offset by the revenue. VOIP gave them a third way to sell the same pipe yet again. Not a bad trick.
Now wireless cos are working out how to do the same thing. Voice is obvious. SMS/MMS is just the second way to sell what is the same pipe in the way the cable cos sell video and Internet. Now wireless is selling Internet as the third stream.
Well, despite the bigness and fatness of the pipes, there are actual limits. Charging more for volume is the model followed in video, with the cable cos charging us incrementally even for chanels that PAY THEM to be carried. Needless to say, channels that charge the cable cos end up costing us. And cable cos do have limited bandwidth. Most systems carry video, VOIP, residential Internet, commercial Internet, and some carry dedicated data channels not so easily categorized. Wireless is currently even more constrained, but while technology may yet give us way more capability in wireless, it will still be finite.
And of course wireless cos will want to extract revenue from us, as much and as often as possible.
I'm not the least surprised AT&T kills the unlimited data plan. They can't tolerate iPhone traffic in many areas, and the iPad soaks up data in a way that makes the iPhone look like it's using an eyedropper. Come on. Be honest. This was inevitable.
What's interesting is trying to understand who's wagging the dog. Is Apple engorging AT&T by selling data-hungry devices that fatten AT&T's wallet, or is AT&T enabling Apple to sell data-hungry devices that further implant Apple's hold and attraction on and from their customers? The iPod succeeds mostly because of iTunes. iPhone succeeds mostly because of the app store. iPad? Probably because of something Apple is cooking up right now, and we haven't recognized it yet. The iPad is actually breaking Apple's typical strategy, because it is only locked into AT&T by a microSIM, which you can duplicate with a pair of scissors. Something else is coming. Maybe the successful AppleTV? Yes, the iPad screen is not HD ratio, but if you letterbox it up at the top of the screen, what do you do with the bottom of the screen? Answer - monetize it. The Apple Way.
We'll see. But capped data plans were inevitable.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
Seriously, the website which calls out companies like Microsoft on a daily basis for questionably honest advertising has a headline called "iPad Bait and Switch" ?
Where is the bait and switch when ALL EXISTING CUSTOMERS can keep the old, unlimited plan?
Not only are they grandfathered in, but now those same customers have a CHOICE to get a cheaper plan, by as much as 50% less.
AND they can opt to add tethering.
AND now they'll get text messages when they approach their data limits, something that people have been asking for since the beginning of time.
This sounds like a TOTAL WIN for existing AT&T smartphone customers, and not a bad idea for potential new customers unless they need >5 GB /mo. (And let's not forget that if you have AT&T, you get free access to all their hotspots like Starbucks and McDonald's.)
-David
Since Verizon and Sprint don't use GSM like the rest of the world, "being locked down to AT&T" in the US means "not making a separate, completely different model from what the rest of the world uses for Verizon and Sprint".
T-Mobile is a GSM-based carrier in the U.S. that isn't AT&T. Apple's lock-in is more than just a technology issue.
"Existing accounts will be allowed to grandfather in" would seem to make class action suits groundless, any new device is bought with the new rules in place?
People are mad at Apple or ATT about this but there is no one to be mad at but yourself honestly. You bought a locked in proprietary device from a manufacturer, that can only be used on one network. Anyone that had thought past the 'but apple is kewl' part of this would have never picked up the netbook that doesn't come with a keyboard, a stand, USB, card slot or even enough storage to store half your photos, or music.
I don't have an ipad, but I do have an iphone. With ATT changing the terms of the agreement, if I was a new ipad owner, I would just move to a new provider. ATT has to let you out of your contract since they changed terms? Can't I jump ship at this point?
If I remember right, AT&T is the only carrier in the US that uses the specific type of microSIM card that the iPad uses.
I don't have a complaint about the cost/limits, and I get annoyed with all the whining, but there is one thing about this that really bugs me, and that's the tethering at additional cost. OK, you want to limit my data plan before you give me tethering? I can live with that. But you want to do that and charge me $20 a month more into the bargain? Um, no.
-- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
Part of the allure of the iPad was being able to drop and pick up the plan AT WILL because you are not locked in to a contract.
What part of that is no longer true?
Only now for the month you buy coverage, if you need more than 200k of bandwidth you pay $5 less than you did before. The horror!
Seriously, this is a (reasonable) cap downgrade and a price reduction. There still is no contract required. Where did you see the change going beyond that?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It's OK when *we* don't RTFA, but I expect more from the submitters and editors.
From TFA: Existing iPad customers who have the $29.99 per month unlimited plan can keep that plan or switch to the new $25 per month plan with 2 GB of data.
But why? The iPhone has an OS based on OS X. Its network stack is able to route anything; that is enough for most of what most people would want to do online, and easy to configure for the other cases. Apple doesn't allow that, makes this carrier-dependent and opens the door for AT&T (and others) to screw their consumers. That's a business strategy (being closer to the carriers so that they get more benefits), but it's not in the best interest for consumers.
Yes, and userland too: http://spiritjb.com/
Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.
When the Apple iPhone was released, Apple managed to get a carrier to provide internet access to it's users for a flat rate of $20 a month. As Apple/AT&T moved to 3G, that rate "upgraded" $30 a month. Admittedly, there were plenty of slashdotter's here who felt this was completely unfair at the time, but I'm sure many of them do enjoy the speed difference from EDGE to 3G... (I'm curious if there are any $20 Unlimited EDGE plan users still out there?)
Now, AT&T is looking at this model and realizing that they are backing themselves into a corner: Users are using more and more bandwidth for the same $30 a month. This is a natural occurrence in all uses of the Internet. Unlike a wired network, the Cell network can easily be over-saturated, and if they can't compensate for users who download huge chunks of data they will begin to falter on delivering reasonable data rates to the rest of their customers.
Metering is the answer. Is this the right price? We will have to wait and see. I for one just checked my "Cellular Network Data" usage, and I have downloaded 1.0 GB, uploaded 200 MB. Last Reset: Never. I've owned this iPhone for 6 months. So 2 GB a month doesn't sound unreasonable. In fact, I think most of my downloads come over WiFi. I bet most of yours do too.
--Pathway
He didn't get a bonus last year, however his total compensation was ~30 million, now do you think he could pay for the unlimited plan for all iPhone and iPad users?
T-Mobile is a GSM carrier but they don't offer 3G service on the same frequency bands as AT&T and in fact a totally different band. In order to support T-Mobile's 3G a phone has to have a baseband radio that supports it. You can't just take a random phone from AT&T and use 3G on T-Mobile's network. Ask anyone with a SIM unlocked iPhone, they're stuck on EDGE with T-Mobile. So in the US you really only have the option of AT&T if you want to put a commonly available baseband in your phone.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
For someone like my mom, an iPad plus its unlimited data plan would be all she needed and cost less than she's paying for cable Internet. 2 GB/month might sound like a lot but that's only 66 MB per day, or about 10 minutes of YouTube.
I agree that it's desirable for some people to use only the wireless connection for internet.
For those that need that option, they might consider one of the WiFi hubs they can take anywhere - except most of them are not really "unlimited" either. The original iPad "unlimited" plan I think had a limit of 5GB or so as it was, so that's only 15 or so more minutes of YouTube (if your calculation is correct, it seems off by an order of magnitude to me).
I don't think it's fair to charge everyone the same price that people who want to use the connection for a dedicated internet line would pay. So the real problem is, that there needs to be another plan for people who want to use it that way. It's possible that overage charges with the 2GB plan might make it feasible, but it seems unlikely.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
For the iPhone, I don't really have a complaint. I've owned one for years now, and I don't think I've ever used 3G data to the extent that I went over 2GB of usage in a month. The people who do are probably either A) tethering a jailbroken iPhone to a laptop on a very regular basis, or B) using it to watch streaming movies.
If you've been doing the former, you knew you were already violating the AT&T terms of usage and were trying to slip under their radar anyway. So you don't really have room to complain. If the later, why are you so into watching movies on a screen that small? Maybe you should consider other options, like ripping a movie and copying it to your iPhone before traveling someplace?
The *iPad* is where I have a real problem with this whole thing,because the ability to "grandfather in" is useless when the plan's whole initial selling point was the ability to go month-to-month, without being locked into a contract. The flexibility of it was key. You could sign up for one month when you knew you were going to need it (as I'd do when I went on a summer vacation trip), and then not pay for several consecutive months after that, when you could do without it. AT&T is saying that if you quit paying the monthly fee for even one month, you lose your grandfathered status!
that sounds like the plan my friend has through MetroPCS...a lot of the regional cellphone companies have very cheap plans. some of them will flash your phone to work on their network if you buy a compatible phone online.
Then don't use them. People act like this is hard or something. Apple is not heroin, it's just capitalistic.
Oh, I didn't realise Apple were not offering full refunds for people who find themselves stuck on a 24 month contract with a provider they specified who turned out to be scammers. Or do you think it's easy for everyone to just write off two years worth of contract payments and buy a new phone to get away from this company? It's one thing to go into a deal with your eyes open, it's entirely another when the whole basis of the deal is changed by the other party and you're locked in with no option to exit (My favourite part is where you then go on to accuse GP of being out of touch with reality...)
How is tethering any different from normal data usage?
Because it is more convenient. Browsing the web on the small(er) screen on a phone is not as nice as reading it on the nice 15 inch laptop display. Same thing for typing emails on the small screen-based keyboard as opposed to the large keyboard on the laptop. Plus you could play (low bandwidth) games that do not run on a phone. Usage will likely be a lot more from a tethered computer connected to a phone than just the phone itself.
WTB [sig], PST!!!
I wonder how long until Apple and Google get tired of screwing around with the phone carriers and just buy them out? Apple's market cap is higher than AT&T's and way higher than any of the other mobile carriers. Google already is experimenting with their own networks. They should form a joint venture to buy out and unify mobile carriers so they can package service with their devices. Trying to sell the actual data service is a dying business anyway but if it sells devices and other services it could be a worthwhile purchase. Sell off the parts they don't want and inside of a couple years they could be a serious player. AT&T would be plausible but a big fish but Verizon, T-Mobile, or Sprint would all be pretty easy.
The real market, besides the devices themselves, is the services related to the devices. It's only a matter of time before cloud storage, on-demand extra processing power, app sells, and even ads are all major sources of income for these mobile devices so throwing in cheap data plans is just a way to get people spending on the other goodies.
Anyone that thinks Apple or Google aren't pushing for cheaper data plans is just blind. Why do you think Apple was selling the $30/mo unlimited no contract data plan so much? I bet Jobs is pissed at AT&T.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
K, you want to limit my data plan before you give me tethering? I can live with that. But you want to do that and charge me $20 a month more into the bargain? Um, no.
A few things on this:
1) The effective price differential for users that want tethering is +$15 over what it was (since the data plan is now $5/cheaper per month). To me, that's cheaper than I thought it would be, just cheap enough I'm going to spring for it even though as a developer I can run a Socks proxy on the phone to share internet anytime I like, for free.
2) There was never an unlimited plan. The real limit was something like 5GB. But the switch down to 2GB is meaningless to me, since even with heavy use of the phone on networks I still never got near 2GB use in a month - nor did most people, which is what AT&T said when talking about the new plan. In real terms it's not a reduction in ability for me if the ceiling is still far above what I need, and if I also pay less for that plan as a result ($5/month less) to me that seems more win than loss. And for tens of millions of less avid network users, it's way more a win than a loss.
3) I am much happier having an explicitly stated bandwidth cap than a theoretical "unlimited" plan that really was always a lie.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Do you have a link for this or some details on how to enable it? My other half is on Orange and it would be useful to have the option of tethering, but everything I've seen online states that Orange charge for a "tethering bundle", which you have to buy in addition to the data bundle. Unfortunately I couldn't find any information about this bundle on their website, so I'm none the wiser to whether this is true or not (although I have seen a lot of different sites/ people on forums making the same claim, but it only seemed to appear from around November last year onwards, so maybe it's a new charge). If you do need a bundle even though you're already paying for the data then it's not exactly free, as far as I'm concerned if I pay for a certain amount of data I should be able to use that data on whatever device I want - and with the speeds of mobile internet, it's not like anyone's going to be tethering for the fun of it.
300 quatloos on nabsltd!
400!
Shit better not happen!
This is one of the reasons companies like to offer "unlimited" one-size-fits-all plans. The plan is unlimited but really it's more like 5gb, and almost nobody actually uses that much, and it's not ok to tether because then you'll be using more than they planned for, and nobody complains because you think of it as a plan that's "unlimited" but only up to the point that a cell phone would be expected to use. (Essentially Comcast and their ilk do the same, my "home" internet is "unlimited" but not exactly and only in the amount and reliability that a home user would expect, and in some ways that's ok.) But when these companies decide to change the plan to "you get 2gb/month" then I damn well expect that my 2gb should be given to me in whatever way I want it.
There's another little thing in this press release that I'm a fan of. For the 200mb plan (really, 200mb, really?): "If customers exceed 200 MB in a monthly billing cycle, they will receive an additional 200 MB of data usage for $15 for use in the cycle." And for the 2gb plan, "Should a customer exceed 2 GB during a billing cycle, they will receive an additional 1 GB of data for $10 for use in the cycle." Hooray everybody, it's the old Blockbuster late fee model! Use 2.001gb of data in a month pay for 4! Hooray!
Thank you. Wish I had mod points. The guy above is simply jealous of another's success.
Folks, if you don't like it, don't buy it. Go buy an Android phone or something. Vote with your wallet.
The government can't save you.
No More watching MLB Network on the iphone without crazy overage charges.....with a new plan of course.
The whole way the cell phone companies offer products and services in the united states is a fucking nightmare -- from the way cell phones are purchased and tied to a carrier, to the contract nonsense, to the plans that make you try to predict what your usage patterns will be for the next 2 years.
Here are some ideas:
- Ditch cell phone contracts. If your customers are too poor to pay for a phone up front without a subsidized price, then put them on an installment plan. They can drop their service at any time, but would still be responsible for making the installment payments on the device until it is paid off.
- Ditch the ridiculous plans that force you to try to guess what your usage patterns would be. (Ex: pay $30 for your first 300MB of data, but if you use 300MB more of data you're going to pay $1000 more, unless you had the foresight to sign up for the higher plan.) Why not eliminate all of these and make everything a la carte. Have a flat (and fair) per/kb and per/min rates -- not the punitive rates that are there to scare you into buying a larger plan for the 1 or 2 months where you go over some artificial "limit." Pay per use.
Of course, the cellular carriers would never do this... because they would no longer be able to continue billing for un-used air time and would be forced into upgrading their networks in order to stay competitive without a 2 year lock-in.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
It's not all that difficult to free your iPhone. Mine can not only tether, but it also will create an 802.11 access point to share my 3G connection with anyone in range. I also get the added benefit of apt, including pretty much any command-line based utility (ssh, tcpdump, nmap, etc.). I showed my father the roaming 3G access point, and now his phone is jailbroken as well. He did it himself.
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
I read the comments on the Gizmodo story and everyone seemed to be hunky dory with the cap at 2G, since they didn't go anywhere near there with their current plans and they were keen on the tethering.
Am I off base, but won't tethering vastly increase their data usage? Seems to me that people will be paying an additional $20 plus potential overages
First winter rain-
even the monkey
seems to want a raincoat.
-Basho
This is AT&T changing their terms for all their smartphones. Including their Android phones and everything else.
And you call it "Apple's move"?
You are a fucking moron.
Yes, unfortunately you need to add a bundle to your contract to enable it, even with unlimited data. It's free on some of the business tarrifs... where the data is unlimited.
I just don't think they want you with unlimited data+tethering for "cheap".
Does any wireless company? The reason for a 2 yr contract is that the wireless company is subsidizing the cost of your phone. Or did you really think that Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile, or AT&T gives you a cell phone free or at a discount out of the kindness of their hearts? Remember the first iPhone didn't have a 2yr contract but you had to pay $600. Now that it's $99 for the cheap model but you have a sign 2yr contract, people complain about the contract.
As for reality, you can get out of the contract but it will cost you. This is true of every wireless company
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
ou and the GP are hilariously off base in two key aspects. First of all, yes this new plan system _may_ be cheaper for 95% of the people out there. However the 5% who it won't be cheaper for are disproportionately concentrated on geeky sites like slashdot.
Wrong. I am a very heavy data user and I have yet to crest 1GB/month, ever.
What you have totally forgotten is that REALLY heavy network users (read: the technical folk here at slashdot) simply could never live without a faster wired network today - which means they have WiFi wherever they spend a lot of time.
The 5% of people I was talking about are those that have no other good data options, not true of 95% of the users on Slashdot either.
Second, you and the GP are pretty much saying, it's not that bad, and besides now we can do tethering! ... so you're excited that the average cost per MB has gone up,
And here we see a geek driven to utter stupidity, calculating an "average cost per MB" which is a meaningless figure when YOU NEVER GET NEAR THE CAP!
I mean, the ACTUAL REALITY here is that I pay $5 less, every month, for the same data usage I've had for years now. Only on Slashdot would you find someone so out of touch as to even attempt to calculate a gain into a loss. And only on Slashdot, would they be so full of themselves as to think they had succeeded!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
How the meme changes... What happened to all the "We ban adblock being mentioned because it's killing our ad revenue"? Will the i* browser use ad blocking? Will it be allowed? If not (remember, some of this shit is set by the contract with the phone company), then you don't have the option of not downloading the ads.
I have a 3G iPad. I'd purchased the limited data plan, thinking I'd just add on the unlimited when i needed it. As soon as I saw this story, I jumped on my iPad, ordered the unlimited plan, and it told me once i used up the last 55mb of my 250mb for this month, it would switch me to the unlimited plan. I drove in to work with the map app running the whole way, that burned through 45mb, and as soon as i got into the office, I hit flickr.com and starting loading up as many images as I could. I was able to burn through that last 10mb in about 20 minutes. Now I'm officially on the unlimited data plan; hopefully I'll be grandfathered in. This is a great opportunity for another carrier to offer a competing iPad data plan!
So? Remember they're not offering it for unlimited accounts. How is 2GB of usage in a small screen with a small keyboard different (to the network) than 2GB of usage in a big screen with a big keyboard? Is 2GB of flash games somehow harder to transmit than 2GB of video?
I completely agree though, out of curiosity, I wonder when providers will start offers plans on a reasonable proxy of transfer like currently done with voice, e.g. off peak data, peak data
Perhaps when it is feasible, I believe with 4G, people could pay extra for prioritized data during peak time, etc.
However, right now, it seems, for most things, pricing is more a function of squeezing business/corporate users as a function of providers' varying abilities to take advantage of price discrimination
This is a classic bait-and-switch intended to get early adopters onboard to get credibility, and once they have bragged about how wonderful it is and about all the things they can do with it no matter where they are, users will buy it on that basis and then run out of bandwidth the first time they take for granted that they can do that stuff.
Bait and switch would imply someone got less than they had.
But since almost non-one uses even close to the 2GB they are capping the new plan at, for most people there is no change. Except the monthly bill went down by $5...
But where you really went wrong, was in the switch. Because anyone who already has a plan, gets to keep the unlimited version forever if they chose. It's not bait and switch, if there's no switch!
Though frankly I am mystified who would continue to pay $5/month more for something they do not use. Which is also why I got rid of unlimited texting from my plan, per use fee was smaller for the amount of texting I do...
There is not a single example of Apple not bringing out a highly superior model shortly after any new evolution in their product line, not one
Technical company offers improved product over time! News at 11!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Yeahhh, but in a variety of situations it was stated that, at least on Earth, they don't use currency, and that accumulation of wealth isn't really necessary anymore because pretty much anything you could want is easily obtainable (hey, I dunno man, ask Picard and Kirk).
It's true that in much of the rest of the galaxy there are various forms of currency, but not everyone is the same as the Earthlings, so *shrug*
I think that the additional $20/month for tethering is ridiculous. You're paying a monthly fee to keep a function of the device unlocked. Whether I use 2GB/month on the phone itself or I use 2GB/month while using my phone as a router, isn't it all the same to AT&T? So, why the extra $20 for no extra cost to the provider?
How is this insightful? is this MSNBC?
There, fixed that for ya... /me rolls eyes.
I really don't see this as terribly evil.
I currently pay $50/month for my "unlimited" laptop card, which burns through about 5-6GB per month watching movies on Netflix and TV on Hulu etc., and another $30/month for the iPhone data plan, which uses about 1GB. So, for 7GB, I'm paying $80, which is pretty ridiculous. However, if I signed up as a new customer today, I could ditch the laptop card and just use tethering -- and pay precisely the same amount of money.
If I got an iPad all else equal sans tethering, I'd have to shell out yet another $30/month for another redundant modem, bringing my data outlay to $110. Under the new terms, that'd be 10GB for even money if I just used tethering. As a new customer, that would also save me $120 on the iPad and another $100 for my laptop, because I'd just run them all through my phone. In two years, that means I'd actually be $10/month ahead of where I would be otherwise.
Now, if I tried to sell, say, my mom on getting this same collection, she'd scoff at $110/month and write-off the idea of bothering with any of it. She'd also scoff at $250 of superfluous radios. But, given the entry model WiFi-only iPad, $100 iPhone 3G, her existing computer and twenty bucks a month to tether them all up and poke around? Sold. That's precisely the market they're trying to tap. It's right there in the press release: almost no one -- on iPhones -- uses more than 2GB. To get more customers like that, they've got to lower the entry price, which is precisely what this change does.
I fail to see how that is evil.
(Sprint probably wont make it)...they know where this road goes and they are trying really hard to change course to keep from getting right back to where they all started
In Sprint's case, that road is actually train tracks...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Pacific_Railroad
[UID-HeinzIntel]
This has nothing to do with Apple, AT&T are doing this. I doubt Apple knew anything about this.
Almost correct. It has a bit to do with Apple. If the iPhone OS didn't allow carriers to disable tethering then AT&T would be unable to disable tethering. It is unfortunately built in as part of the platform to allow these carriers to do this.
Im a light user of te iPhone and my current RECEIVED USAGE after only 2 weeks this period is already 10GB...
In other news - Im selling my iPhone
There is only one microSIM standard, and the iPad uses it. Additionally, you can punch/cut any modern miniSIM into a microSIM shape and use it as one. They are electrically backwards and forwards compatible.
June 7 is the date they will end the unlimited plan, so there are a few more days to get grandfathered in.
If they "went out of business" you would NOT "have nothing".
You MIGHT "have competition"..
Maybe..
And yes, blame Apple for making it a monopoly scenario for carriers.
Maurice W. Hilarius Voice: (778) 347-9907
That statement is stupid at best and more likely disingenuous. You can't possibly be serious. Where you use it most of the time is irrelevant if the amount of data you need to transfer over the cell network is greater than 2GB.
And since the main point is that in fact very few people use even close to 2GB of data per month on a cell plan...
That makes my argument VERY relevant, and you the one who ends up with the stupid tag applied firmly to forehead.
Personally I'd want to use such a device as, among other things, a navigation tool. I'm not going to get WiFi in my car. And you're not going to get WiFi when you're just "out and about" most cities without using someone else's AP, perhaps illegally.
Yes, I drive around with Waze on all the time (free navigation app for the iPhone). I don't even need it to navigate really; I just like to see what streets around me for alternative routes to explore. If you want a serious navigation app something like TomTom is much better, and also has wholly offline maps - but for casual use I prefer simply streaming maps.
That's a constant data connection, streaming map data, every time I drive, over the cell connection. Which is daily.
Plus of course I browse and use email all the time, and tether infrequently.
And I still have yet to get much over 1GB in a month of usage.
So I guess it was unfair to call you stupid. You are simply ignorant of your real data needs, of how much data 1GB really represents.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The problem is that there are no other GSM carriers in the United States that use standard 3G frequencies.
Apple was a willing partner with AT&T in their exclusivity deal, so I'm not sure you can let Apple of the hook. Hopefully they are realizing that it may not have been such a good idea to tie their nifty new devices down so proprietorially.
Except T-mobile doesn't offer 3G on standard frequencies.
They grandfathered the existing accounts. That means anyone who ALREADY has one gets to keep the original terms. The change only applies to new accounts.
I agree that it's really lame on AT&T's part, but it is clearly NOT bait and switch. Get your terms right before making accusations of shady/illegal business practices vs just plain stupid ones...
However, everyone knew it was just a matter of time before tiered data plans started and unlimited stopped as it just makes sense.
I don't know about that. I see the trend towards unlimited text/data/voice like T-mobile has for their Android phones. I can currently tether all my computers through the built-in support on my Nexus One. In the long term, I would expect everyone to go to plans like that. We used to pay by the minute for long-distance. We used to pay per text message. Why would we want to go back to that model? I expect that what will happen is that the cost of unlimited data plans will go lower and lower until everyone is including unlimited everything.
Since your point one is outright false, and you're using it to make point two, your point two is outright false as well.
I think that the $20/month for tethering is ridiculous, especially in combination with going away from an unlimited data plan. Whether I use 2GB on my phone directly or 2GB while using my phone as a router, it's still 2GB that AT&T is serving to me, and it should make no difference to them. $20/month ransom for a feature of the phone is abhorrent. I'd be fine with its being an app that I must be in the app store if they want to make money off the efforts in creating this functionality.
Here in Japan, when we jailbroke our iPhones for tethering, on an "unlimited" plan, the CEO of the carrier made a public statement saying that unlimited wasn't really unlimited. If you use more than 300GB per month, you get a speed bump. I wasn't aware that it was even physically possible to use 300GB per month!
But that's OK, no need to worry about going over the cap. We also have the device marketed as the Pocket WiFi. A small little WiFi/3G router. Pop it out, turn it on, and 5 people can connect to the 'net with a 3G connection (HSPA). Unlimited. For real. And probably considerably faster than most DSL lines in the U.S.
Why in the world are you guys still living with 1.5Mbps DSL, 2GB capped data plans on 3G, and all the other crap I read about!? Even the elderly in Japan don't use that stuff. And we're not even Korean! :-P (And no, please don't give me the "last mile" joke. I live in Hokkaido, which is the boonies. I've got 100Mbps fiber to my home, and decent 3G coverage too. And no, it's not because our cell service started late in the game so we only had to build out, not build new. Our mobile phone networks have changed from Analog to CDMA to 3G over the past years. We're ready to finish phasing out 2G this year, as 4G has pretty much coverage in metropolitan areas, and will likely be built out soon too.)
iPad's service isn't carrier locked. T-mobile doesn't offer 3G service on the same bands as the rest of the world, so they aren't an option. Any Micro-SIM (which is an admittedly new standard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subscriber_Identity_Module) from just about anywhere in the world besides the US works in any iPad.
Interesting, I never heard about that one. Link?
Free Martian Whores!
There are plenty of other GSM carriers in the US. T-Mobile is a big one.
There are also smaller ones like Cellular one, and numerous pay-as-you-go carriers like TracFone.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
Not so fast, read the arbitration clause.
Companies like to make people think that once you agree to a contract with ah arbitration clause, that you've got no recourse. Same with companies that have you "sign a release" and other such things.
Fortunately, (and their legal department knows this), that's not necessarily the case.
Working people who need those rich people to pay them or they lose their job.
GP said "stop defending those rich people," not "Lets have a communist revolution and make everyone earn the same."
Although, between those 20 people you just mentioned keeping their jobs and seeing BP execs drawn and quartered, I know which one would feel better for most of us...
Because most people don't use the full 2GB (or even the 200MB) of data a month with just the phone. Now that it is possible to tether your computer, I am willing to bet that AT&T will see the average monthly usage for tethered customers increase quite a bit. Allowing tethering will end up clogging their already slow wireless network, so they want to limit the amount that you can use.
WTB [sig], PST!!!
I for one welcome our new byte counting overlords!
My boy, my boy!
Actually, this is a sign that AT&T is trying to get more customers into the smartphone bandwagon by reducing the price for casual data usage. Probably because the iphone market is saturated at the current price level. I don't think it indicates anything related to a non exclusive iphone... although I would love to see that happen.
If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?
These days you just can't count on wifi to be open.
I agree, mostly, though you've forgot iPhones get free WiFi at any Starbucks and with the tethering plan you can share that connection and those are pretty ubiquitous...
But really, the places where users spend most of the time (home and work) they'll typically have WiFi. The amount of data you consume outside of those locations is not all that much if you actually look at it.
I was able to nurse a 20 MB (!) international plan along for a week in the UK, with light map use and some email with a little browsing. That was painful, but 2GB is really a lot of headroom even if you are traveling.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I envision selling little empty white Lucite boxes under this name...
Pinkish green, and lustre black ones at a premium under the name of iDiot Color.
Maybe they pre-emptively got rid of flash so all those preloaders and annoying ads wouldn't burn your 2Gbs up. ;-)
Contrary to what the blurb says, the iPad is still available at Apple's store with a shipping date of 7-10 days.
Dead wrong. I've had NOT ONE LIMITATION on filesize sent over 3G, from youtube to vimeo.
Remember how I was talking about an application from the app store?
Try buying a large app from the app store over 3G. Go on, we'll wait.
For you to say you are sorry for the confusion and how you will do a little research before posting again.
You see, being an iPhone/iPad developer I am very cognizant of how small you need to make binaries so users can purchase them on 3G...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
i'm looking at the Apple site right now. cleared cache and it I can still purchase any 3G iPad with $30 unlimited plan.
I believe that T-Mobile does.
It would seem to me that ATT axing the "unlimited" plan would play to the benefit of Apple (and suffer ATT no significant negative consequences long-term): it'll give people (well, Apple customers, at any rate) the perception that they either have to buy the Apple product on or near IPO or miss out on the 'great deal' of whatever is bundled.
At the price point the iPad hits, without that unlimited data plan, it looks a LOT less appealing. We're talking hundreds+ of dollars more over the device's livespan...
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
You're an idiot. Just about any phone worth a damn in the US is carrier locked. Original Palm Pre? Carrier locked to Sprint. HTC HD2? Carrier locked to T-Mobile. Droid? Carrier locked to Verizon. The fact of the matter is that you can't successfully sell a phone in the US without having it be carrier locked to one of the 4 major carriers. They just won't take it. It doesn't help that they all use different frequencies, and that the only one that's compatible with Europe is AT&T.
On paper, it sounds great. But, you'd be gambling with the other guy. This is because there are only two players in the US that support GSM devices; there's only one other option for leaving AT&T - T-Mobile. Now, maybe some don't currently have issues with T-Mobile. But, who's to say that they won't follow suit and try pushing the same shenanigans as being discussed here? The underlying problem in this case is the US is the lack of (better) GSM provider competition.
Scenario: "This company is for saps, I'm going elsewhere!....(looks around)...wait, there's only one other option? Oh...I *really* hope they treat me better." End up not being satisfied with that company? Well then there's two options for your GSM device:
1. Suck it up and return from where you came.
2. The less convenient method involving moving out of the country.
Prove it.
Not that I care, (I don't own a cell phone and I'll never own an i-anything), but the bait and switch being referred to is, I think, something other than what you're defending.
The "unlimited" plan was used to hype the device upon its launch in an effort to quickly establish a solid base of users and thus sculpt herd behavior. Everything about Apple marketing is based on a deep understanding of population psychology. Apple users are "hip" and educated conservatives who never really figured out what that wall was all about in the Pink Floyd song.
Now that 2 million devices have seeded the market, the herd is polarized. People already owning a device won't care because they've been "grandfathered" in. So now we have a huge base of happy pod people actively promoting and using the device. The hard sales job is done. Now if anybody else wants to get on board, (and they will, because the second tier of customers are the cowardly followers; they won't jump until they see what the rest of the herd is doing, but when they do, they'll be willing to pay as much as they have to in order to keep up.)
So that's the bait and the switch. I doubt very much that it wasn't carefully planned. Apple has some evil genius giant brain in a vat managing their marketing, I think ;-)
-FL
The free market is as much an idealized unattainable as the Star Trek no money communism utopia.
Oh yeah?
Success stories like Cogent Communications disagree. They went from literally nothing to a highly valuable multinational corporation in a scant few years. How? Leveraging market economics, innovative ideas, and contempt for contemporary approaches, they turned comms upside down (and pissed off the big dogs in the process).
If I recall correctly, Schaeffer started Cogent in Omaha, NE due to regional economic benefits, and he has a history of commercial property rentals and a degree in physics. So he came at Cogent out of far left field, but made a very solid go at it using "free market principles".
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
AT&T: I have altered the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further.
Who the hell says they're supposed to "capture" all the "value" created by their networks?
Their shareholders? Common sense? Either makes sense.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
The problem is that AT&T, Verizon, Comcast, Sprint, etc are legally protected monopolies, so the free market doesn't really enter into this. In my opinion, since the are legal monopolies which "own" various natural resources such as parts of the electromagnetic spectrum or telephone poles, they should not be able to operate as other "free market" for-profit corporations. Instead, they should all be collapsed into a single entity: "American Bandwidth Provider". They will do nothing but provide bandwidth (no selling phones, no generating content, etc), and they will provide this bandwidth at cost. Costs including R and D, network expansion, employee compensation, etc which will be determined by "American Bandwidth Auditor" a government agency composed of locally elected officials, that all get to fight to get the bandwidth improved in the area they were elected in.
We've already socialized these natural resource (and really we needed to). We might as well might as well get a good deal on them, rather then have them run by companies who's only responsibilities are to their share holders.
Cool art gallery, if you're into that sort of thing.
http://it.slashdot.org/story/10/03/29/1948210/Taking-Apart-the-Energizer-Trojan
Then you are grandfathered in. Stop whining.
Most customers: t-who?
Boost Mobile. I bought the phone (Motorola i776, $106) and plan at Best Buy (cash purchase, no tracking, one time $50 activation, again cash) and pay the $50 monthly phone bill by buying a card at any convenience store (with cash) like you would buy minutes for a NetTen. I hear congress is trying to outlaw my anonymity and make me identify myself (Hi, I'm Osama Bin Laden and this is my brother, Al Capone)
The phone's browser sucks, but other than that I've been happy with them. I didn't want to name them for fear people would think I was astroturfing or shilling. Another downside -- they advertise "unlimited" and although I haven't yet run across any limits yet (even letting Amy use it, and boy can she abuse a phone), I looked to see if I could tether it to my netbook and not only is that forbidden, their "unlimited" plan actualy has limits, but they're not saying what "unreasonable use" is.
I was using Net Ten (voice only) before I got this phone, and regularly ran up $100/month, more f I let my lady friends use it (especially Amy).
Free Martian Whores!
If they succeed in "capturing" all of the value created by their network, then we no longer have any reason to tolerate them because they won't be contributing to the economy. Economies grow specifically because companies don't "capture" all of the value that they create, and so you get genuine win-win situations.
I think your innacurate headline qualifies for the real bait and switch. This is AT&T's fault, not Apple's. In my case it will end up saving me money. If you want to Apple bash then at least try for something legitimate. You might as well blame Apple for the Gulf oil spill.
You missed the point, Apple required that you have AT&T, Apple and AT&T partnered to offer you unlimited 3G... AT&T took it away. Apple deserves to be part of his feelings of disdain for partnering w/ AT&T and being part of the rug that was pulled out from under him. Yes he can move to another company's products and another cellular provider, but being told you'd get something and then having that choice go away still sucks. While you may not agree with his feelings, you can at least understand why he feels that way... I hope.
If they succeed in "capturing" all of the value created by their network, then we no longer have any reason to tolerate them because they won't be contributing to the economy. Economies grow specifically because companies don't "capture" all of the value that they create, and so you get genuine win-win situations.
I think any reasonable person would agree that you cannot really capture everything, but that the goal of a business is to capture as much as possible.
The goal of the consumer is to pay the least and receive the most value.
If an iPhone on AT&T does not provide sufficient value to offset what the consumer pays, there are three other major carriers and numerous smaller carriers in the USA to compete for their business.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
No problem, I'll just switch carriers.
After all, this is America and there is no way we wouldn't have free enterprise with low barriers to entry for multiple data carriers, right?
Right?
Um ... hello?
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Except that AT&T is the bad guy here and we already knew that all of the cell phone providers were evil.
2GB is awful. I do that easily with remote desktop to my home and work PCs which is what I need the wireless for to begin with.
I just mean that, for example, the grocery store doesn't get upset that they're not "capturing" all the value that we derive from having food to eat. Or at least, I'd think it was crazy if I heard a grocery store owner complaining about how I get a lot of value from not-starving and he's being "screwed" because he only gets paid based on the price of the food itself, and does not get a cut of the "value" created by that food.
AT&T provides a service. Businesses normally only get paid for the service that they provide, and not for the value created by that service.
Most US warships have vending machines and stores that sell anything from snacks to clothing to DVD players (depending on the size of the ship and its store), so yes, money is still used.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
How is iPad subsidized? There is no reason to lock, have contract or otherwise restrict user movement among different networks. If Apple honestly wanted to provide their users best experience they would just ship iPads unlocked and available for all 3G (AT&T, T-Mobile at least) networks out there.
Eventually one of these networks would offer cheaper data plan or some family plan with iPad just to gain market share on this. In relatively regulated (end user in mind regulation) wireless market (such as Nordic countries) the fees for wireless usage are much lower. Currently I have 24 month unlimited contract (to get the discount and USB modem) on HSPA data connection with up to 14Mbit/s for less than $20/month. In rural area where I live I get only 3Mbit/s but in cities the connection is much faster.
Has Apple posted a response to this move from AT&T? I noticed their site still conveys the old plans without any disclaimer that they are going away on June 7th (since if you ordered today you might not have it until then).
They don't care about doing the right thing, but they do whatever is advantageous regardless how who it hurts. I've already made a pledge to dodge Apple from now on.
noobs, It's obvious what is being done here: 1- Make the deal cheaper for the 98% that don't consume massive amounts of data 2- Tighten the screws on the people hammering their network (the 2% using more than 2 Gig per month) This makes it better for all (just not me), its a culling of the outliers
Apple doesn't want you to tether because it eliminates their chance to sell you another radio in your next device. Who's gonna buy the 3G iPad version when it can already share data service with the device in your pocket?
People feeling vibes of previous Apple iDevice releases are not alone.
Anyone else notice how the previous incident was a price cut, and the current one is a price increase? (for unlimited)
AT&T's announcement clearly states that existing customers can keep their unlimited plans, so... hyperbole much subby?
In the UK, the data plans for the iPad are available on all the major UK 3G networks, all of which price their plans differently as a result of differing service included with the plan. If that's a different situation to the US (admission: I know it is, I'm being crass), I'd say there's a regulatory or competition problem with the wireless carriers. That's nothing to do with Apple, otherwise the situation would be the same in every country, which it's not.
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
Why should they? You're not in a 24-month contract with Apple, they've fulfilled their commitment to the consumer by providing the product (so apparently you're not aware what the realities are). You're in it with the wireless carrier, and you made the choice to enter that contract. If you didn't weigh up the relative pros and cons of that contract and signed it because you were getting something shiny, that's your own fault. And my understanding is that in this situation, if you said you wanted the $30 unlimited plan you get to keep it if you carry on paying for it, which makes perfect sense to me.
Also, the whole point of a contract is that it works both ways - if the other party fucks up and as a result is in breach of the contract, you are entitled to go to a higher authority and challenge them. If it says in the contract with AT&T "they must provide this" and they don't, you can complain and happily exit the contract as a result of them being in breach of it. If it doesn't say that, you've got nothing to complain about. Once again, no one forced you to enter that contract, and there are provisions in the law that cover you if the other party doesn't keep to it.
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
I'm not convinced that reducing AT&T to nothing more than dumb, fat pipe is such a bad idea. There is really not much different between MPAA, RIAA, phone companies, and print media. All of them are hanging on for dear life to legacy business models because they're too stupid and/or too lazy to move into the 21st Century and if that means screwing customers without liberally applying a personal lubricant beforehand, so be it.
The iPad is unlocked. You can get a sim from Tmobile and put it in there. The problem is that T-mobiles 3g is not compatible with the iPad, so it can only use the slower speed connection. But it is unlocked and can be used with any compatible 3g provider.
die444die
That's hardly relevant. In NZ, the exclusive carrier is the one with the wrong frequency for the iPhone. The one that you can't get the device on is the one that the phone works best on.
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
2GB per month ought to be enough for anybody.
Who trades apple stock?
And once you create this competition, I will be the first to sign up for your cheaper, unlimited bandwidth.
If you're in a 4G Sprint market, you can get an HTC Evo with unlimited 4G bandwidth starting on Friday.
COMPARING AT&T'S NEW RATES VERSUS VERIZON'S RATES:
FOR INDIVIDUAL PLANS IN THE UNITED STATES:
VERIZON:
Unlimited Talk = $70 a month
Unlimited Text = $20 a month
25 MB Data = $10 a month --- STUPID. Almost all users will exceed this.
5 GB Data = $30 a month
Tethering = $30 a month
Data over 5 GB = $0.05 per MB = $50 per GB.
-----
AT&T:
Unlimited Talk = $70 a month
Unlimited Text = $20 a month
200 MB Data = $15 a month --- covers 68% of iPhone users.
2 GB Data = $25 a month --- covers 98% of iPhone users.
3 GB Data = $35 a month
Tethering = $20 a month
Data over 5 GB = $0.05 per MB = $50 per GB.
-----
NOTES:
AT&T's rates are very favorable compared to Verizon's rates.
AT&T's Tethering rate is less than Verizon's
For the 98% of users who use less than 2 GB a month, AT&T is $5 a month cheaper than Verizon, saving $60 a year. With tethering, AT&T is $15 a month cheaper than Verizon, saving $180 a year.
Ideally, AT&T should also have a limit of 5 GB a month, like Verizon. This makes it easier to use video conferencing on the new iPhones. After all, AT&T in the 1970s did envision someday having video conferencing on phones. The 5GB limit would still be a good cutoff point for heavy data users.
For what it's worth, that's a good point. However, one or two success stories does not a free market economy make. You name me any current economy that operates as a true free market. They don't exist, because monopolies and price fixing are the natural result of the free market. Larger companies will almost always out-compete, out-price, and out-advertise smaller companies, almost.
Oh, and to the guy who suggested they use money on Star Trek in a few episodes therefore a free market economy is easily attainable... do you really think that argument makes any sense at all? It was an example of an idea, everyone knew what I was suggesting. Bit of a red herring there what?
Verizon does the same thing for $30 extra for tethering.
COMPARING AT&T'S NEW RATES VERSUS VERIZON'S RATES:
FOR INDIVIDUAL PLANS IN THE UNITED STATES:
VERIZON:
Unlimited Talk = $70 a month
Unlimited Text = $20 a month
25 MB Data = $10 a month --- STUPID. Almost all users will exceed this.
5 GB Data = $30 a month
Tethering = $30 a month --- EXTRA.
Data over 5 GB = $50 per GB.
-----
AT&T:
Unlimited Talk = $70 a month
Unlimited Text = $20 a month
200 MB Data = $15 a month --- covers 68% of iPhone users.
2 GB Data = $25 a month --- covers 98% of iPhone users.
3 GB Data = $35 a month
Tethering = $20 a month --- EXTRA
Data over 3 GB = $10 per GB.
-----
NOTES:
AT&T's rates are very favorable compared to Verizon's rates.
AT&T's tethering rate is CHEAPER than Verizon's tethering rate.
For the 98% of users who use less than 2 GB a month, AT&T is $5 a month cheaper than Verizon, saving $60 a year. With tethering, AT&T is $15 a month cheaper than Verizon, saving $180 a year.
Ideally, AT&T should also have a limit of 5 GB a month, like Verizon. This makes it easier to use video conferencing on the new iPhones. After all, AT&T in the 1970s did envision someday having video conferencing on phones. The 5GB limit would still be a good cutoff point for heavy data users.
Not difficult no. But lets just leave it that I've attended enough confidential briefings to know that if I value my privacy and data. I wouldn't do it without having a 100% foolproof (and validated) method of resecuring the device.
I realize I said 100% ... that applies to the 'foolproof' statement. I need to be able to accurately reproduce the steps to resecure it. (I being the fool)
Bait and switch just like the article said. According to an Apple representative 2% of smartphone users were straining the network so heavily it was slowing the network down for everybody else. And now it's become apparent that other data providers are going to stop providing unlimited access for the same reason! Here's a link to the article I found about that: http://theinvestmentreporter.wordpress.com/recent-news/
You know, I don't have mod points right now, but if I did, I'd mod you up. I've never considered the possibility of a company like Google just outright buying a carrier. Now that it's been brought up, I think it's a damn good one. I wonder if that's really doable? If so, I'd much rather it be Google. I get the feeling that if it's Apple, we might end up even more screwed than we already are. Plus, although I consider the iPhone and iPad hardware to be superior, I consider Android and Chrome to be better platforms. In the long run, once mobile hardware becomes way more commoditized than it is right now, I suspect that Google will clean Apple's clock. Owning the ability to give out data plans with their devices and services would definitely give Google a leg up in the mobile platform war.
They wouldn't even have to buy all carriers. AT&T and Verizon, if I'm not mistaken, both have reach to over 97% of all Americans. Buying either one would suffice. Buying Verizon would get them the superior network (wireless and wired) with its 3G and FiOS coverage. Buying AT&T would have the advantage of putting them in a position to totally screw Apple. (I'd love to see Steve Jobs's face when he realized that his primary competitor is now in a position to butt f*ck him.)
But best of all, we'd finally have a carrier run by a company that has, at least in my opinion, consistently looked out for the consumer, a company that "gets it," the concept that win-win scenarios between consumers and companies is the best long-term strategy.
1. Phone carriers carry huge costs associated with their infrastructure.
ATT is not just a handset, it is a network, a series of hundreds of switching centers, hundreds of thousands of radio sites, support infrastructure etc etc. One does not simply "buy them out".
2. Say you had several billion dollars and convinced ATT to walk away from their cash cow, Do you then have any idea how much money it costs to operate that infrastructure?
Mobile carriers have small margins. The only real profit they make is from value added services like data and various subscriber options. It's a thin margin business unless you do it in high enough volume and with an existing infrastructure.
ATT doesn't want to spend money expanding their networks to support more data, it's not going to get them new customers or make the existing ones pay more. So they get to profit by squeezing as many mobiles on as they can and make the consumers use less bandwidth by charging them an arm and a leg for doing more than checking email.
Think of it like this. If ATT were an airliner, it wouldn't save them money to fly faster jets. The best way they could make money would be to sit people 2 to a seat and make you contractually obligated to fly every month for 2 years with them.
Apple is smarter than that. They are in a high margin business right now selling iphones that cost $100 to make for $300-$600. They don't even have to eat the MFG costs, they just outsource it to China. Apple is lean and mean, they design, others build, you buy, they laugh all the way to the bank. Why would they WANT ATT?
It's not a free market, because Data service for the iPad and iPhone is an AT&T monopoly, protected by Patent and Copyrights (over the technology), and an Exclusivity deal with Apple.
Companies forced to lease infrastructure can counter that 'requirement' in several ways...
So I called that evil gaggle of vampires to see if I'm to be affected by this. I was told I was! My unlimited data package was going to end, and I'd have to switch. How could they do this I asked, the gentleman I talked to told me the contract specifies that I can't cancel for 2 years, but it doesn't say they can't change the services offered on the contract. He preceded to run down the pricing and packages I now, according to him, had no choice to choose. I then asked isn't this the very definition of bait and switch? I entered into this contract with the intent to get a product, and now you're taking this product away and expecting me to still honor my end? He IMMEDIATELY *checked into something* and told me I was grandfathered in and can keep the unlimited package, and even use it on future smart phones for the life of my AT&T service. My contract expires October 25th. I have never fired a gun in my life. I am looking forward to sinking a 45 slug through my iphone on the 25th. I love my iPhone, I prefer it to the Droid (please don't hate). However, my renewed hatred of AT&T now knows no bounds.
That which is not dead may eternal lie,and in strange aeons even death may die
Actually, I'd prefer the weird ISP-based routing to the phone-based routing if the phone-based routing involves NAT.
Then again, who am I kidding -- while I haven't used a device with mobile Internet enough to tell, I'd guess the provider NATs everyone anyway.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
They could do that quite simply by changing their pricing model.
That is: Anticipate how much traffic you expect from tethered laptops at 2 gigs/mo. Work out how much it'll cost to build the infrastructure to support them. Change prices to match.
Instead, they're trying to restrict certain behavior on the basis that it might consume a lot of bandwidth, instead of dealing with the bandwidth issue. Restrict the bandwidth itself, or don't. Coming at it sideways like this is not only unfair, it's ultimately ineffective.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Unfortunately in the US (and many other countries), jailbreaking the iPhone is illegal.
What I don't get is why you would monetarily reward a company which forces you to crack your own device? I mean, let me run with the "jailbreak" analogy for a bit:
Genius: "Welcome to the new, improved Apple store! Let me just slip on your iCuffs..."
*click*
Customer: "Hey!"
Tech-savvy customer: "It's OK, here, I've got a hairpin in my sock... Let me 'jailbreak' your hands..."
Customer: "Cool! Now I can actually touch things!"
Genius: "Whoops, looks like those iCuffs were vulnerable! Here's the patch..."
*click*
Customer: "HEY!"
Tech-savvy customer: "It's OK, we'll come out with a new hairpin in a day or so... Don't you just love Apple?"
meanwhile, at the Microsoft store...
Ballmer: I don't get it. We let people do what they want here -- no iCuffs! But no one's here, they're all at the Apple Store! I'm going to fucking kill Apple!
Gates: I dunno, they must be pretty kinky over there. Maybe they like the iCuffs?
Ballmer: Brilliant! We'll release Microsoft Cuffs (TM) to compete! Then everyone will love the Microsoft Store!
I realize my analogy is being stretched a bit, but... I still don't get it.
I get wanting an iPhone and not caring about the restrictions. (Hey, some people are into cuffs, who am I to judge?) I get buying something else to avoid those restrictions.
I don't get going out of your way to buy an iPhone, when good, solid alternatives exist, and then jailbreaking it. I don't get supporting a closed ecosystem you clearly resent -- supporting it with money, word-of-mouth and general network effects ("I can help you fix your iPhone!"), some jailbreakers even develop for it, basically supporting it as a platform in every way... Even though you can't stand that it's closed (even though you know damned well that will never change), and you're willing to risk bricking your device to remove that restriction. You care enough to risk bricking an iPhone, but not enough to try Android?
Sorry if that sounds preachy, and maybe someone can explain it to me, because it still boggles me.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
And employs astroturfers like YOU. You've been outed CAPITALIST pig infiltrator. And have been added to our LISTS.
US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
I think they'd then risk being seen as abusing a monopoly, or not following the legal requirements to share/lease their infrastructure.
The system is working more-or-less as it should in the UK for mobile phones (where three companies own infrastructure), landline phones, and ADSL (where BT own pretty much all of it).
Oh... that risk can be addressed also
No set of requirements is perfect. I would suggest that intentionally or not, (IMO) the big companies have already proven that they really are that dirty with 'lease infrastructure' requirements.
*blink* o_0?
The government can't save you.
After reading this I went on my iPad and ungraded my plan to the Unlimited. Its still available, so if you want to get in on it to grab that nice Grandfathered Plan card, you still can. Not that Ive managed to use more than 250mb in a month yet, since there is really only so much you can do if you dont spend a boatload in iTunes to drain it. Tethering, on the other hand, opens a whole new pandora's box of possibilities as I could funnel 3G to one or more full computers, etc. I wonder what kind of latency WoW would get via iPad connection...
Most US warships have vending machines and stores that sell anything from snacks to clothing to DVD players (depending on the size of the ship and its store), so yes, money is still used.
Everything in those vending machines can be considered "luxuries", though. It's not like the sailors have to pay for their food in the mess hall, or pay rent for their rack.
File a complaint with the FTC. It's easy and takes only a few minutes.
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/
Here's the company info to make filling out the forms easier:
Apple
1 Infinite Loop
Cupertino, CA 95014
408-996-1010
AT&T
175 East Houston Street
Dallas, TX 78205-2255
210-821-4105.
I believe that the key points are:
Apple touted and advertised the $29.99 data plan as a major inducement to buy the iPad 3g.
Apple described it as a "breakthrough deal" with AT&T, leading consumers to believe that Apple had locked in the terms and price.
A key, heavily advertised, feature was the ability to jump between plans or have no 3G plan as dictated by needs and budget.
The "grandfathering" announced by AT&T forces customers to either keep an unlimited plan continuously active in order to not lose it.
The change in the plans has significant impact on the value of the device and the manner in which it can be used.
We want AT&T and Apple to honor the advertised deal, not give us money, a coupon, a refund, free service for a month, etc. (That's what I want, anyway.)
If you're one of the people cheering because your bill got cut by $5 per month, don't bother with replying to this. This is a legal issue related to FTC rules and regulations on false and deceptive advertising, not whether you like the new plans better because you don't happen to move more than 2GB per month.
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Using different networks is one way the US carriers can avoid having the market be as competitive as in Europe.
As competitive as Europe? Unlimited plans were almost unheard of when I was there, and cost per call and SMS/MMS is much higher than here in the US. I actually fear we are moving towards the European model, which definitely does not benefit the consumer. When I was living in Spain a few years back, we would send our friends 1 text message, and often did not expect a reply, because the cost was enormous. No "How are you" re: "Fine" re: "What are you doing tonight?" re: "Ohh I don't know".... You also did not see people walking down the street chatting it up all the time, because the cost per minute was insane and the plans they had were not that great. It has effectively shaped the culture there differently. People there would send incredibly long winded texts, and not that many of them, because of the cost, and would also avoid making calls because the 1 long winded text would be cheaper than a call. Here in the US the average teenager probably sends thousands of texts each month, in europe it is probably less than 5% of this due to restrictive plans. I would imagine actual airtime usage would reflect the same. I remember there was a carrier in the UK offering unlimited SMS plans, and the competition refused to peer with them to freeze them out of the market. In other words, using the carrier that offered unlimited messaging meant you could only message users on that carrier. Messages sent to users on other networks would be undeliverable. So much for European fair market competition. I know this is specifically referring to SMS/MMS plans, but I also remember Vodafone did not have an unlimited data plan at the time I was there either. I doubt the European market has become as competitive as the US market to date, let alone more competitive. They have a market that clearly benefits the company over the consumer, because it seems that everything is metered. Minutes, data, SMS, MMS, etc.....