Slashdot Mirror
Pakistani Lawyer Wants Mark Zuckerberg Executed
Earthquake Retrofit sends along a piece from The Register reporting on a nightmare scenario of legal jurisdiction on the Internet: a Pakistani lawyer has filed blasphemy charges, carrying the death penalty, against Mark Zuckerberg and other Facebook executives (and the pseudonomous user who initiated the "Draw Muhammad" contest last month). Pakistani police have apparently opened an investigation, according to this Google translation of a BBC Urdu report."
n/t
I for one am glad to see the Islamic religion embracing their moderate side.
I demand a pony! I want a pony! So I can chop it's head off and put it in a Pakistani lawyer's bed.
If Pakistan were to actually uphold this absurd attempt, it wouldn't hurt Mark Zuckerberg (I'm pretty sure he's not planning on going to Pakistan anytime soon and no civilized country is even going to consider extradition). But it WOULD certainly hurt Pakistan (which already has a pretty bad rep to begin with). It's the equivalent of holding up a big sign to the world that reads "We're a backwards shithole, filled with intolerant Koran-thumping hicks. Don't even think about coming here or doing business here." It would be a valuable lesson on what religious fanaticism can do to your country, I suppose--especially for countries that don't have oil (the only reason any businessman from the civilized world would even be caught dead in Saudi Arabia).
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
... while the wider implications are scary, I'm not sure I really have a problem with this particular case. Think they could make Four Square a crime against humanity while they're at it?
I love all these "suddenoutbreakofcommonsense" stories.
Careful What You Wish For....
Islam - a religion of peace. Are you serious?
We seem to be willing to cave to the Muslim extremists in every other way, so why not this one too? Surely it's only sensible to be pussies every time the extremists pressure us, life and liberty be damned!
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
That's not "a nightmare scenario of legal jurisdiction". That's an opportunity. Allow me to sever the Gordian knot of tangled jurisdictional issues with justice, THUNDERDOME style.
Tonight's card: Muslim Fundamentalist Lawyer vs. Mark Zuckerberg. Two men enter, one world wins.
Seems about right.
nt
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
All the Pakistanis have to do is give us Osama Bin Laden first!
In the meantime, we'll keep Mark in a nice safe cave built by the CIA.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
It should probably be noted, that the US has an extradition treaty with Pakistan, the court could in theory demand extradition of Mark Zuckerberg by US authorities, to be turned over to the custody of the court in Pakistan, to face the charges.
I thought the US was the only country that thought it could apply its laws to anyone in the world, even its own citizens when they don't reside in the country.
Good thing Pakistan isn't like the US and understands that they can't wander around the planet imposing their laws on other people.
Exaggerate much? This is up there with the summary from a few years ago about how the squid's beak will revolutionize engineering .
I'm disabling ads until because I choose not to reward redesigns that are less usable than "view source".
should unfriend the Pakistani Lawyer
of value was lost..... just kidding, great showing for a progressive future there Pakistan.
'Number-memorizing Chinese people.'-Anon
I don't think the pages for "Draw Muhammad Day" is that big a deal. FarmTown, now THAT is a reason for execution.
Flexible bare-metal recovery for Linux/UNIX
you obey our laws, then we'll talk about obeying yours
Its ok to make fun of God and Jesus but don't make fun of Allah or Muhammed. Some people need to grow thicker skin.
Once canvas takes over, we draw can Muhammad every fucking where.
It's sad, because I really want to support executing Zuckerberg. But . . .
I get the general religious offense in drawings of Muhammad. In that regard, it's like the Piss Crucifix. But, I don't see the need for the great animus behind all this. I mean, are Muslims really such pussies they can't take a fucking joke about their Prophet? Also, isn't this sort of elevating the Prophet to the level of a deity? And if so, doesn't that sort of nullify the Muslism creed (there is no god but God, and the stick figure behind the "censored" blackout bar is His Prophet)?
In the meantime, here's a fucking ASCII drawing of Muhammad . . .
O ----( Allahu akbar! ) -|- | /\
I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
likes to go down on Jesus. Then Moses fucks them both up the ass. They love it.
Really?? There's nothing more pressing than trying to prosecute this crap?? C'mon people let's get into the 21st century and shed these superstitions. I know it's a pipe dream... but a man can dream, can't he?
"We'll cross the minefield under the cover of daylight..." -A. Rimmer
Let's try this again . . .
O
/\
-|-
That shit's fucking hard in HTML!
I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
YOU CAN DO IT!
Yet another example showing that the Islamic world is still in the Dark Ages that most of the rest of the world emerged from sometime in the 13th century.
...fuck a whole bunch of you superstitious savages.
Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
I guess this is a development that no one really foresaw in the early stages of the Internet: instead of creating a global village with a global set of social mores, the Internet is creating a global court room where every jurisdiction can claim tort against anybody who does something over the Internet. Furthermore, it was always implicitly assumed (especially in the US) that the Internet users would adopt, or at least move to American moral standards. Instead, we're discovering that there are plenty of communities out there who are happy to apply their local standards to the world, and that these communities have enough power to at least make life uncomfortable for everyone.
There is a lesson here. Actually, there are two lessons here. One, Americans aren't the only ones willing to export their values, and they will have a difficult time arguing that others shouldn't. Two, we can lay to rest the notion that the Internet sees censorship as damage and routes around it: nations have enough power, and those in power have enough incentive, to use the other code base to control the Internet - the code of law.
I have a sneaking suspicion I know which one is going to win, and it's going to give geeks heartburn all over the world.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
I don't think that Mark Zuckerberg is under the jurisdiction of the Pakistani police. He doesn't live there, he isn't a citizen of Pakistan, he didn't even commit this infraction himself.
Of course, I am not a Pakistani lawyer, so don't take this as legal advice, Mark.
The determined Real Programmer can write Fortran programs in any language.
And yet people get so upset and claim that the US "made" the terrorists. I guess they did. Just like Mark Z. did. It does not take much for a western to anger someone. In fact, most people on slashdot would be likely candidates for execution; most of them deny that Allah exists.
But what we really need to do is talk about this with them and come to an understanding...
And by the way, Israel is bad. Israel shouldn't have a blockade, Hamas isn't really a big threat. They just want to "execute" Israel...
Hm.
It's perfectly reasonable for them to make this request. After all, he has offended them.
Although I'm sorry to say, in the land of TakeOffenseistan in which I live, it is a crime punishable by death to be angered over cartoons. So, I expect them to comply with the self-beheading required as per law by tomorrow morning at the latest.
Since we're all being reasonable about following laws and edicts from foreign countries.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I for one hope Zuckerberg puts a million US on the lawyers head. In Pakistan the guy would last about a day.
Posted anonymous as I'm not rich or famous enough to live under a fatwa
Could someone explain why some Muslims believe that their rules need to apply to non-Muslims?
As a point of contrast, many Christians believe that their primary responsibility is to not themselves sin. Secondarily is to encourage their fellow Christian to avoid sinning; this includes (at the worst) kicking people out of the church when they're chronically unwilling to shape up. But But it's pretty hard to find anything directly in Christian theology that suggests Christians are supposed to try to impose these standards on non-Christians.
So what is it about some Muslim theologies that leads them to try to, for example, feel justified and/or compelled to try to kill Dutch cartoonists and Facebook executives?
This is neat; by comparison, our religious Reich of the southern states doesn't seem so retarded...
We, as a civilization, needed religion to explain things to us during the "dark ages" - now we have science; we need to move on and drop all these archaic, superstitious, and pointless religions.
Guess what, there is no Mohamed - except for the few Mohameds at Gitmo.
Now that would be a good match. Fear not Mark Z. you come from a country of the free. Team America is here to protect and serve, keep your nerve. Whether sentenced for pen and paper or keys and bits facebook will get more hits.
I wonder if they have heard that Muhammad can SUCK IT!
Sounds like a clear case of anti-Semitism to me....
After all, look at the guy's last name.
No wonder he needs to be put to death!
Even if you look at it from their perspective, that Mark Zuckerberg is somehow guilty because he's "enabling" these "offensive" actions on his website, doesn't that make their entire religion guilty because they're enabling the grisly murders of people like Daniel Pearl, or hell, all of 9/11?
It is by my will alone my thoughts acquire motion; it is by the juice of the coffee bean that the thoughts acquire speed
If you think about it. If Mohammed actually ever came to meet his people. They'd execute the guy for defaming himself. I mean seriously who the hell could live up to the hype that they've been pumping for generations. Aren't they at least a little bit embarrassed by this?
Political, economic AND religious extremists want you dead!
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it.
I wonder if it is possible to sue that pakistani lawyer for calling to murder and if he can be extraded for that ?
The world belongs to those who get up early. - I'm far from being the king of Earth then
Muhammad, and yourself, but especially Muhammad, can go suck a dog's asshole. I guess you'll have to file charges on me too.
It's a real problem for Zuckerman. He's previously made fund-raising trips to Dubai. That's over. The UAE has blasphemy laws, which they enforce. The UAE also has an extradition treaty with Pakistan, but not with the United States. So he can no longer visit Dubai, and is unlikely to get funding from any source in the Arab world. He can't even fly Emirates Air.
Would they be willing to settle for a plea bargin of having a drawing of Mark Z executed on national television?
Hm... I'm conflicted on this issue...
Pakistan's Deputy Attorney General is preparing to also file charges against the blasphemous group Anonymous and his leader 'moot' for their continued and aggravated offenses against ... pretty fucking much everything.
This post contains no rudeness or derision of any kind. All arguments are friendly. Terms and exclusions may apply.
To bite America's shiny metal ass?
Get your PostgreSQL here: http://www.commandprompt.com/
All Nucking Futs !!!! nuke the bastards -- all of them.
Just earlier this month I WANTED to strangle Zuckerberg. How is it possible for these assholes to suck the fun out of everything?
We just help other countries ignore the rights of our citizens.
Basically, the pig pedophile "prophet" Mohammad didn't want anybody to make pictures of him to reduce the chances of him being assassinated. Mainly due to his constant ordering of genocide, rape and murder. Thus he made this pronouncement within his pathetic "religion" not for pictures to be made of him. The unthinking morons who follow this idiot still follow this pronouncement, despite it being impossible for the great dogshit Mohammad to be assassinated anymore. People just need to start laughing more at the idiots. There are few things more silly than Islam. And there are few people who are more bone-headed insecurely serious. Mod me up, so the truth can be spoken freely. Despite their terrorist tactics. Lets' try to get a fatwa against CmdrTaco!
The obvious flaw in a theocracy is that whomever is in power can decide who lives or dies and claim the decision was the will of the deity. How this fundamental problem with Islamic fundamentalist society is never pointed out is interesting to me. Maybe everyone is afraid a fatwa will be placed on their heads.
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
In a showdown between lawyers and social networking, I think no matter who wins, geeks will have heartburn.
He was a devout Catholic. He railed against atheists.
No no no...
You should have an Enemies list!!
Also, I want someone to make a Muhammad Facebook page.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
God bless insurgents for killing fag-enabling American troops! God bless AIDS!
God bless laws against stem cell research - if sufferers die because of hampered research, it's God's will!
God bless Anne Coulter and Michelle Malkin for singing the praises of Guantanamo and calling for fair and just treatment of Muslims who have committed no crime!
God bless the brave soldiers who have caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians - for God spoke to Bush and told him he was doing God's will!
God bless our representatives for having the good sense to take away the freedom of 17-year-old sexters, and 20-year-old drinkers, and Satanic cannabis-smokers of any age! God bless the greatest prison population on the planet - being locked up is much better than death!
Except the under-age retards - God bless Texas for releasing them to heaven early!
God bless the Christian unicorn, so much braver and more righteous than the Muslim unicorn!
tl;dr We all suck, but the US is currently having a field-day pointing out how much the other side sucks.
mohammed sucks a lot.
based on the actions of their equivalent of Jack Thompson? Oh way to go there. Let's show the rest of the non-Judeo Christian based world just how merciful and understanding we really are.
Here's a thought. Why don't we read up on what actual Islam is, versus the supremacist Arab culture that permeates and corrupts it. Karen Armstrong did a wonderful job of pointing out what Islam actually is, and how Arab culture with it's tradition of jahilliyeh has since permeated and corrupted it (note to the curious - Wahibist Islam is a fundamentalist version of Islam where the clerics try to reconcile the pre-Mohammed "heroic" cultural mores of Arab tribal culture with Islam itself - which is what Mohammed explicitly fought against).
but wait. It's far easier to learn programming, and read physics textbooks, and read Dawkins/Hitchens, and other men bloviating about the evils of religion, when they don't even have any real expertise in theology to begin with (Dawkins is a BIOLOGIST). And therefore, when one Muslim version of Jack Thompson goes with an attention-getting stunt, we automatically do to the entire muslim world what people who didn't understand gaming did to us gamers - we stereotype and hate. Way to go, there.
Here's to hot beer, cold women, and Glaswegian kisses for all.
My religion considers women who don't put out offensive to God... is there any way I can have them punished?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Well, if he doesn't show to the trial, I guess he's guilty and they have every right to have him extradited for execution.
After all, this is why e360 gets a victory against spamhaus and many on slashdot were absolutely A-OK with that...
Regarding exporting values, you make a good point. If Pakistan has broad-based support for such a measure, they should simply cut off access to FaceBook nationwide. Self-determination, right? Just because we believe in freedom of speech (even when used to inflame and insult) doesn't mean we have to mandate that same value for them.
Also, I wonder what the people who post insulting things about someone else's religion think they're achieving. Is there any beneficial outcome from that?
That depends what you mean when you say "Christianity". If you are referring to the "churches" where things are hierarchically structured and they teach that you must adhere to a strict system of "beliefs" or "doctrine" or "theology" then you are correct. Ironically, the Bible comes out strongly against those things and that way of doing things. It seems that either "Christians" haven't read it, or they didn't understand it. In that regard, "Christians" are much worse than followers of most religions, since don't practice what they preach in any noticeable way (the very act of instituting "Churches" runs contrary to the Bible). Jesus certainly wouldn't be allowed in "Church", they'd probably stone him if he went up before them preaching some of the things the Bible says he preached.
welcome our islamic overlords.
I even have a lovely picture of Muhammad up in my cube.
Facebook is so under fire and Mark Zuckerberg has been at the front of the insults and bashing. Part of the problem of being in the public eye.
http://www.thetechnologygeek.org
So, ummm can we extradite every idiot over there who has committed an "honor killing" and take them to court in say Texas on murder charges? It's against the law here, so you would be ok with that right? I mean with their death row express lanes and all it shouldn't take to long right?
Two, we can lay to rest the notion that the Internet sees censorship as damage and routes around it: nations have enough power, and those in power have enough incentive, to use the other code base to control the Internet - the code of law.
Wrong. When Pakistan starts behaving like lunatics, the rest of the Internet will just bypass them. They might be able to exert some control within their borders, but that will at worst, cause the rest of the Internet to stop at the edge of their borders/routers. They are damaged, we will ignore them and route around them.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Good. Maybe we'll finally be able to put this Facebook experiment to rest.
I remember a story about a man that was found guilty in one country. The secret service of that country proceeded to kidnap that person in an other country to bring him to "trial". *shrug*
What was his name again. Venuna? Something like that.
Anyway. That would be a quite absurd situation that nobody would accept.
Privacy is terrorism.
While I am completely against this as a bad precedent for internet freedom, I am also completely in favor of sending Zuckerberg to Pakistan for possible beheading. Hmmm... bad precedent, beheading... this ones tough to call.
Mark Zuckerberg will have to stay out of Pakistan or he will be executed. There goes his vacation plans for this summer.
Except he didn't hack the computers. Oopsie doopsie.
(waiving index finger side to side) You bad man! You very very bad man!
Sure. Here.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/Animhorse.gif/60px-Animhorse.gif
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
I am Andy.
Hoist Number One and Number Six.
When an someone wants to kill a professionally protected individual and get away, it can be made very difficult through means of a relatively small and skilled (and expensive) security force with sufficient resources (and legal leeway to use them). But if the perpetrator is willing to sacrifice themselves in order to accomplish their mission, it becomes MUCH harder to protect the person... it basically takes an army that has the ability to control EVERYTHING around the perimeter of the individual being protected (ie: The Secret Service). Rushdie could go into hiding and still make his living as an author. Zuckerberg would have a much more difficult time staying off the radar.
I was with you until you took a tangent on the rule of law. People already route around bad laws, yes a fraction gets snagged in them, but the majority of people just ignore them. For instance Marijuana, about the only thing the law has stopped in the quantity one carries on their person. Speeding, after getting a ticket I though was unjustified I did the speed limit religiously till my court date. 100% of the population speeds, the degree just varies. "The code of law" isn't as strong as you make it out to be. There are nearly 7 billion people on the planet, we only hear about less than .01% of the cases where the code of law is applied as an example to scare off those who would be on the sidelines. Most laws are just for show, it is security theater, the really bad people don't care about the law anyway. It is just to give boundaries to the honest people.
Oh yeah?! Well...
,'._,`.
(-.___.-)
(-.___.-)
`-.___.-'
(( @ @
knock knock.
BANG BANG BANG!
Hey, what are you doing here?!!
What are you doing?!!
AAAAAAACCCCCCHHHHHHHHH!!
This post has been terminated.
This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
There is a reason fish school. A fish by itself is easy pickings for a predator.
God (Allah/Mohamed) Damn IT! For Fuck's sake, we have plenty of nuclear bombs. We need to wipe these countries off the goddamn map and be done with it. This shit is out of control. It won't stop until they're dead or we're dead. I vote them. We have the Nukes. Let's be like Nike and "Just Do IT!"
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
To them I say, "let's play my favorite game. It's call 'hide-and-go-fuck-yourself.' I'll hide first."
have you SEEN the christian millitant camps in the US? Killing for Jesus is not as dead and gone as you would like to think...
the preceding post was not spell checked... suck it.
Oh, so hopeful. You're forgetting that China is already sanitizing the Internet. ACTA wants to expand sanitizing specific content to all countries. Iran is also providing its own Internet filtering. This is already way beyond just Pakistan. How much filtering and blocking has to happen before you realize that you do not have an Internet anymore, but a loosely connected set of Intranets?
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
I hope the US does not have an extradition treaty that would force us to hand him over. Some of our agreements and treaties are dangerous to our citizens.
One, Americans aren't the only ones willing to export their values, and they will have a difficult time arguing that others shouldn't.
Sure you can, as long as you admit the simple fact that the US shouldn't export *their* values either.
Two, we can lay to rest the notion that the Internet sees censorship as damage and routes around it: nations have enough power, and those in power have enough incentive, to use the other code base to control the Internet - the code of law.
Muhammad jokes haven't stopped, and in fact I'd say have increased since the Islam world tried to censor them so yeah, I'd say that it *is* routing around it. Nations can do whatever they can with their own laws of course, but ultimately the fact that other nations are free to do whatever they can with theirs (see also: Iceland) and that no law is ever implemented perfectly ensures that, in general, the Internet will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
not for blasphemy but for creating social networking. What a waste of human bandwidth.
Christianity was never reformed. The one and only thing that changed was Christian theocracies went away for good.
Sigh. What do you think "the reformation" was? It was 130 years of religious wars to put an end to theocracy. Please learn just a little bit of history.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
The Reformation resulted in a new branch of Christianity, toppling the rule that the Vatican had.
While the Roman Catholic Church did have a degree of reformation, its particular flaws are beside the point. The issue is that that a huge segment of Christianity formally went in a different direction.
So technically, if they build a decent case, it would have to include the proof of the crime... which would be some Muhammed pictures of the contest... which would then sentence to death the lawyer for the act, and the Deputy Attorney General for accepting the case, etc...
So what is it about some Muslim theologies that leads them to try to, for example, feel justified and/or compelled to try to kill Dutch cartoonists and Facebook executives?
It's the same thing that compels born again christians to travel to Utah and tell them how wrong they are for their beliefs. It's the same thing that compels radical christian groups to lobby the United States Congress to pass an amendment declaring marriage being between one man and one woman. It's the same thing that compels extremists to gun down Abortion doctors and harass those who work at Abortion clinics.
This is not something that Muslims have a monopoly on.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
So why isn't this case politically motivated? Just like "The Great Satan" MUST be said to get anywhere in politics in Iran. Or "In God We Trust" in Alabama.
Why is this not politically motivated too?
PS to sv_libertarian, have you checked the size of the US army who are CONVINCED that God is on Their side?
Listen to this, read this, learn it by heart:
Muslim Outrage
...as opposed to the religion that openly endorses child marriages and whose major "profit" was a child molester himself?
1331461 is only semiprime *sigh* Alas - I am just short of 1337.
Embrace, death grip. A trivial difference.
And remember, Muslims do have a sense of humor, their hecklers just carry stones instead of rotten tomato's.
Ah, but I have been hogging the stage to long already, please welcome our next guest: The Muslim apologists who will make all this seem perfectly alright. Can he pull it off again? No, but he will believe he did and nothing can persuade him otherwise. Give him a big hand everyone! If you still got them.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I want that retarded bozo force-fed with pork until he's too fat to move, and then thrown into a pit filled with starved dogs... Fitting I think.
Pakistan should be ashamed that they allow people be that stupid, tarnishing their country's reputation.
PS: Extending 'Draw Muhammad Day'... This is Muhammad after hearing about the stupid Pakistani lawyer: :(
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
What about all the execs at google, yahoo, microsoft, ask, and so on? What about the creators of south park? There must be thousands, maybe millions, of people just as blasphemous as Zuckenberg.
There are many many different people here: not all share your own viewpoints. Some believe in one god, others a different god, others many gods, some spaghetti monsters, others nothing. Nobody has any right to force their beliefs on others, and it should not be expected that everybody will respect your beliefs, as some believe the exact opposite of yourself. I know, some believe that they must spread their beliefs to the rest of the world, which is fine. Just remember that others have similar beliefs, and consider how you would like to be treated on the other side of the interaction.
In July 1994, federal prosecutors won an obscenity conviction in Tennessee against the operators of a computer bulletin board system (BBS) called the Amateur Action BBS, a private porn subscription service. The BBS was located in California, where there were no such obscenity laws.
The case came into being because two postal workers in TN were logging into the BBS and downloading porn. The OWNERS of the BBS were the ones extridited and prosecuted. This was pre-internet, BBS's back then used dial-up modems to connect computer to computer.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
anti-Semitic behavior from a Muslim state? That sounds unlikely.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
and to which Christian fundamentalists want to drag us back.
Odd, I can't find a community of Christian fundamentalists that is against the education of females, yet there are whole Islamic societies that prevent females from going to school.
One path would seem to want to keep us out of caves, the other path would not. When you try to make all religions look equivalent, you just come out in the end as looking ignorant of religion.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
http://criticalppp.org/lubp/archives/10279 E-mail address at the bottom for Muhammad Azhar Siddique. "The writer is an advocate of the Supreme Court of Pakistan, a human rights activist, and chairman of the Judicial Activism Panel. He can be reached at judicialap@gmail.com" If this is the same guy then he fails at being a human rights activist.
Maybe you are right - in the short term governments all over the world (including mine, sadly enough) seem to be enhancing their capacity to engage in one-sided, authoritarian rule over everyone. We do have to realize that if this new technology is so frightening to them, there must be something to the idea that it poses some kind of threat to their ability to engage in such stupidity. That should be cause for determination, if not actual hope.
As a slightly humorous counterpoint, it is worth noting that according to Wikipeida Zuckerberg has a networth of over $4 billion. He'd be in no position to take on any major governmental power, but how long before a dozen or so people like him could decide they are sick of this kind of nonsense and colonize some part of the ocean, moon, etc?
Do you realise how many people believe that there were "WMD"s in Iraq, and how many people believe that Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11 ?
Yes, people are stupid. Nothing new here, and yes, we'll all be happier when that rock comes falling out of the sky and sends us the way of the dinosaur.
On a bright note, however, when 7 billion of us are dead, just think of the vast quantities of oil we'll be creating for next species that dominates...
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
A fate worse then death.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The Prophet Elijah was cooler than the Prophet Muhammad any day of the week :P
Whether good or bad, ccTLDs offer a technical solution to these kinds of national preferences. Just give them facebook.pk with offensive materials removed for their country and keep dotCom for the open minded.
Oh like Islam is any better.
Child brides, pederasty, repression of women, homosexuality as a crime with the death penalty in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Mauritania, northern Nigeria, Sudan, and Yemen.
I'd bet that more young males are molested in countries like Morocco a year due to the repressed sexuality Islam imposes than have been molested by all the Catholic priests in the last thirty years.
The son of one of Hamas's founders admits that the social restrictions on dating and sex in Islam and the Middle Eastern tribal society is one of the leading causes of militarism in Islam.
Is the hacker facing execution? No.
Is hacking a crime in the UK? Yes.
Did Zuckerman draw any cartoon himself? No.
Similarity ends.
Go and trolls somewhere else with your bleeding heart for some freak who can't keep his paws of someone elses stuff and then cries when he is caught. Got a simple deal for him, go to the US or double time in the UK.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Let me show it to you.
My religion of Peace.
the very act of instituting "Churches" runs contrary to the Bible
I must disagree with this, as one that once felt church to be unneeded in christian life. Citation:
For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them. - Matthew 18:20
Now I will say that blind belief is dangerous because those in power will always abuse such things. This is why I am glad to be part of a church that places reason as equally important to understanding God as scripture: "These we often call our “theological guidelines”: Scripture, tradition, experience, and reason." - http://www.umc.org/site/c.lwL4KnN1LtH/b.2310045/k.4A66/Reflecting_on_Our_Faith.htm
I will admit that many "Christians" are ignorant of scripture and will simply believe what they are told, but my reading of the gospels has shown Christ to be tolerant of everyone but those that purported to be 'holy' while using their power to exploit the ignorant. Hence why they had him killed.
Sadly I fear that in some "Churches" you might be right about the stoning. Heck the Catholic Church would exclude him from the Eucharist because he isn't Catholic! Sad really.
This is why we mock them.
The current Pope led that office until he became Pope.
B===D(o) ;) Paki lawyer taking a massive cock up the ass with a smile on his face
When everyone who disagrees with you is dead... it's probably very peaceful.
And I am frikkin sick and tired of people like this lawyer. MOST of us don't care that people make fun of Mohammad. MOST of us have daily, mundane, humdrum lives where we get up, go to work, come back, enjoy a bit of time with our families and watch TV before we go to bed. The big pressing concerns for MOST of us are how well we are raising/feeding/educating our children, how we're going to buy a house, how we will advance in our careers etc. etc. etc.
Good luck getting Zuckenberg extradited to Pakistan for trial. It seems like many of these theocratic governments just make their countries two-bit, backwater places.
This is so typical of western media. There are millions and million and millions of smart, tolerant,peace loving devout Muslims. We have this absurd urge to feel smug and superior so out media scours the court system for ridiculous actions that in no way reflect the commonly help world-view of an area and posts them "news".PURE FUD. And look how how ready you all were to jump aboard the train... This is the equivalent to interviewing bible belt Christian fundamentalists with a grade 6 education for the page one story on your newspaper. Have you ever seen the documentary "Kids on fire" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_On_Fire_School_of_Ministry What if this was help up as how America feels to the rest of the world and presented as fact in the news? Remember when the lady sued the NFL and Janet Jackson for her wardrobe malfunction? Last week a guy sued a hospital for not preventing him from raping another patient. . Our legal system is not exactly a bastion of rational thought some days either. Not one post questioning the articles truth, the author, or the source. nice. just typical american rhetoric and smugness. Way to swallow the FUD hook line and sinker /.
sig loading.......
You don't have "dialog" with people like this because you have no common ground on which to compromise.
But it is not just one guy. I don't care what people want to say Islam is supposed to be, you have to take what it in. In particular, look at the countries that are Islamic countries. They are almost to a one fundamentalist dictatorships of one form or another. You have Iran that has sham elections but is run by a "Supreme Leader" that is a cleric and an "Assembly of Experts" also clerics. You have Saudi Arabia, a long standing monarchy where they don't use lawyers but clerics in court and so on. The actual implementation of Islam is stuck back in the crusades and no amount of explaining away can change that. I don't care if that's not what it is "supposed" to be, that's what it is. I'm not going to say that Christian behavior in the actual crusades was ok because it was "Actually Christian". Sorry, it was what the vast majority of the follower of that faith did at the time. Doesn't matter if the book said they shouldn't, they did and justified it with their faith.
This is the same kind of crap from the people who cry that every single communist state "Isn't a real communism," and therefore communism is still a fine idea. Well strictly speaking that may be the case but practically speaking when communism is implemented, you get the USSR or Vietnam or Cuba and so on.
It's all the "No true Scotsman" fallacy. Oh those guys aren't TRUE Muslims. Yes, they are. They identify as Muslim, they follow the basics, they are Muslim. They may not be what you think a Muslim should be, but they still are.
I take it you've never been to Arkansas, then...
I moved to the Ozark Mountains of Arkansas (from Dallas, Texas) about 7 years ago...lovely area, genuinely kind people...
Mr. Azhar Siddique, the lawyer filing this petition, is the one who pushed for the ban against Facebook. He then used an illegal clone script to make Millat Facebook: http://www.millatfacebook.com/ It was functional for a while until their hosting service kicked them off for using the illegal script I suppose. Now it's just filled with Anti-West/Jewish propaganda. I am a Pakistani and although I disagree with the ban (on Facebook, Flickr, Google, YouTube, Wikipedia, BlackBerry Services, Opera Mini etc.), it has overwhelming support among Pakistanis, most of whom are illiterate and have never even used internet (95% are not connected). I don't think even the Lahore High Court judges who ordered the ban knew what Facebook was. It's been reported somewhere that about 50 people stormed into the court to force this decision. BTW Lahore High Court is a provincial court which should not have had the authority to impose a national ban.
There is a lesson here. Actually, there are two lessons here. One, Americans aren't the only ones willing to export their values, and they will have a difficult time arguing that others shouldn't. Two, we can lay to rest the notion that the Internet sees censorship as damage and routes around it: nations have enough power, and those in power have enough incentive, to use the other code base to control the Internet - the code of law.
On your first point, it's not necessarily that America exports their values (included under the umbrella of soft power for those political science folks) but rather that peoples within other cultures import our values. This brings me to a counter-point of your second idea that nations will use the code of law to control the Internet by means of censorship. Please note that Pakistan didn't export their values, it's just that some American companies (Viacom or whoever controls Comedy Central and Facebook) chose to import Pakistan's values on the image of Prophet Mo.
This is so typical of western media. There are millions and million and millions of smart, tolerant,peace loving devout Muslims. We have this absurd urge to feel smug and superior so out media scours the court system for ridiculous actions that in no way reflect the commonly help world-view of an area and posts them "news".PURE FUD. And look how how ready you all were to jump aboard the train... This is the equivalent to interviewing bible belt Christian fundamentalists with a grade 6 education for the page one story on your newspaper. Have you ever seen the documentary "Kids on fire" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_On_Fire_School_of_Ministry What if this was help up as how America feels to the rest of the world and presented as fact in the news? Remember when the lady sued the NFL and Janet Jackson for her wardrobe malfunction? Last week a guy sued a hospital for not preventing him from raping another patient. . Our legal system is not exactly a bastion of rational thought some days either. Not one post questioning the articles truth, the author, or the source. nice. just typical american rhetoric and smugness. Way to swallow the FUD hook line and sinker /.
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[thumbsup] Syberz likes this.
~Syberz
This is a firm but fair response to everything that is Facebook. I don't think anyone could have a problem with this.
:D
Proceed!
I vote that the lawyer does the world a favor and kills himself... and takes all of the other extremists with him.
Bert, I call bullshit. Dawkins knows a hell of a lot about evolution, but next to nothing about theology. If he did know anything about theology, he'd focus on how the majority of the new testament was written by ghost writers claiming to be Apostles, or about how all four gospels are irrelevant to each other and were written at different times for different viewpoints (John was written for Roman converts - painting Jesus as the super-Emperor). Or he'd talk about how Paul, the most prolific author in the New Testament, only wrote 8 of the umpteen missives attributed to him (or even that there seem to be two Pauls - one who went to Arabia, and one who didn't). Or he'd talk about how Judas dies two separate ways in the New Testament. Or he'd talk about how there was no Star of Bethlehem, no census that Herod had to take, and no massive attempt to get Jesus's birth to confirm to the prophecies of the Messiah as listed in the Torah. No, Richard Dawkins is an idiot when it comes to Theology. He has every right to attack and debate the existence of God, but he's just as bad as the religious fundamentalists he opposes
Here's to hot beer, cold women, and Glaswegian kisses for all.
Properly trained Theologians could tell you about the following (which I have recapped from a previous post):
Dawkins knows a hell of a lot about evolution, but next to nothing about theology. If he did know anything about theology, he'd focus on how the majority of the new testament was written by ghost writers claiming to be Apostles, or about how all four gospels are irrelevant to each other and were written at different times for different viewpoints (John was written for Roman converts - painting Jesus as the super-Emperor). Or he'd talk about how Paul, the most prolific author in the New Testament, only wrote 8 of the umpteen missives attributed to him (or even that there seem to be two Pauls - one who went to Arabia, and one who didn't). Or he'd talk about how Judas dies two separate ways in the New Testament. Or he'd talk about how there was no Star of Bethlehem, no census that Herod had to take, and no massive attempt to get Jesus's birth to confirm to the prophecies of the Messiah as listed in the Torah. No, Richard Dawkins is an idiot when it comes to Theology. He has every right to attack and debate the existence of God, but he's just as bad as the religious fundamentalists he opposes
Here's to hot beer, cold women, and Glaswegian kisses for all.
Who said it was? GP said "Unfortunately Islam is still the law of land in several countries".
Monotheistic religions in general are fucked up.
One takeway I got out of this article is how important safe harbor is. The policy that protects the creators of a technology or business from the actions of its users. The mere idea that the founders of Facebook could be executed, much less held criminally responsible, for the words of another person they don't even know, is beyond comprehension and all bounds of common sense. Safe harbor not only protects innovation, but apparently, in some cases, even your life! =^) The part that was shocking to me was where they have the audacity to take this to Interpol and the UN! That's disconcerting.
I spooned Muhammad last night.
The son of one of Hamas's founders admits that the social restrictions on dating and sex in Islam and the Middle Eastern tribal society is one of the leading causes of militarism in Islam.
Or, in the words of Mr/Ms. Garrison:
"Put yourself in the shoes of a Muslim - it's Friday night, but you can't have sex. And you can't jack off. There's sand in your eyes, and probably in the crack of your ass. Then some cartoon comes along from some country where people are getting laid and mocks your prophet. Well, y'know what?! I'd be pretty pissed off too!"
Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
How much filtering and blocking has to happen before you realize that you do not have an Internet anymore, but a loosely connected set of Intranets?
Pointless semantics. What do you think that the Internet is but a loosely connected set of networks? It has been that way for decades.
The physical or logical topology of the Internet is irrelevant to this discussion. When people try to restrict or control the flow of information, users will 'vote with their feet' as the saying goes, and look for it elsewhere.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
before. Surely you remember when Pakistan blocked youtube for the rest of the world using BGP right? Now imagine instead of just youtube, Pakistan did something similar to their entire routing table and was broadcasting poisoned BGP routes for everything. It would do a heck of a lot of damage before Pakistan were blocked and everything fixed.
Outside of the Papal States, and even that is doubtful, I'd challenge you to find even one substantial European state that actually qualified as a functioning theocracy from the Fall of Rome to the Reformation and even afterward.
There weren't any church lands not under some secular jurisdiction other than that Papal States. And even the Papal States was just the backyard of the Pope who ran the place like a secular lord. Most countries certainly had large segments of believers and rich religious landlords, but the real power in Europe never actually left the hands of the people with the armies. The substantial component of religion being used in things like heresy trials and witch burnings was the use of religious unity to help keep secular realms under control. That is why the Reformation actually succeeded: the secular lords realized that the Protestant creed allowed them to dispense with the Pope as the head of a Church that they used mostly for control. If there were actual theocratic control in Europe, you wouldn't have had things like the Investiture Crisis where the king believed he was entitled to pick whoever he wanted as a bishop. In a theocracy, the bishops would be picking the kings.
Yes, the Popes talked a good game about being the overlord of Western Europe, but the reality of the situation is that he probably has more control over the Catholic Church today than he did before the Reformation started.
So, in other words, they are in more dire need of a blowjob than any religion in history?
Come on, That's funny.
-- "In order to have power, I must be taken seriously." -Mojo Jojo
I bet he wishes Facebook had taken some kind of minimal steps to offer decent privacy now, huh.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
Theocracy in Europe was parallel to secular authority. They each had their own courts, own tax system, etc. Yes, there was fighting over who was really in charge, which escalated into open war, but for the average guy on the farm the cvhuch was a government he had better obey. Post-reformation the secular governments had won, and in many places you could even decide to go to a differenct church if you wanted to.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
I think vi is superior in many ways to emacs.
Also, I wonder what the people who post insulting things about someone else's religion think they're achieving. Is there any beneficial outcome from that?
I've always hoped that they would realize that their taboo was broken, and nothing bad happened. No thunderbolts, no giant cracks in the earth, that sort of thing. Then, maybe they will start to think about their religious beliefs.
In that vein, Mohammad molests dogs.
The more people I meet, the better I like my dog.
Now what's stopping Suckerberg from fighting back ? With all his money, he should sue the shit out of this lawyer in the US and Pakistan for harassing and threatening him, and pay a few mercs to get him discreetly out of pakistan and into a 'better' jurisdiction. I'm not saying it'd be a good thing to do, but it's certainly fair when you have to fear the 1st crazy extemist with a knife crossing the street like happened a bunch of times already (to a movie director in Danemark IIRC), and that's what I'd do with all that money.
Non-Linux Penguins ?
I guess Ray Person (Generation Kill) was right, "It's lack of pussy fucks countries up."
Yes, thats what Mosab Hassan Yousef and Mohammed M. Hafez both claim as reasons Islam gets people willing to kill so easily.
Sexual repression and frustration.
The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has a program for radicals who stay off the path of violence where they give them the money for dowry so poor males can't afford a wife can get married.
There are some crimes which to me, seem at least as heinous as murder and deserve a punishment at least as severe as the punishment for a premeditated murder. Aggravated sexual assault comes to mind. If you're going to support the death penalty under any circumstances, then I think there are are other crimes besides murder which should qualify.
I have no moral problem with executing people who commit heinous crimes, either. We don't want them walking around in society, so the choices are basically to lock them up forever (or for 30+ years) or to execute them. At least executing them gives some retribution for the family of the victims, maybe a bit of closure.
However, there are HUGE practical problems with the death penalty as applied in most nations today. Take the U.S. for example. (1) It costs 10x or more as much to prosecute a death penalty case, because of the extra appeals and so on. (2) Because of 1, the prosecutors pick and choose which cases to pursue the death penalty in. There's a huge inequity in how they do this. In most of the cases where they choose to go after the death penalty, the criminal is poor and least able to afford to put up a good defense. So rich or middle-class murderers get life in prison while their poorer counterparts go to execution. There's also a racial bias at play; in the U.S., minority murderers are more likely to get the death penalty, and white guys are less likely. There have also been cases where wrongful convictions occur, sometimes because the police lie on the stand, fabricate evidence, etc. and the suspect, being poor, can't afford a good defense lawyer to uncover this and tear it apart. Sometimes the prosecution fails to turn over evidence which the defense could have used to show the reasonable doubt or even innocence of their client.
So because of these problems, I am personally against the death penalty. I think we should be willing to lock up our worst criminals forever, and then if (20 years down the road) we discover that one of them was wrongfully convicted, there is still the possibility to give him back his freedom and his remaining years.
We could convict someone in our country from another country for xxx crime, and find them guilty because they had no representation and no appearance in court(losing by default) which would then mean they would have to live a xxx term in prison, and once they set foot on american soil...they could not really say much other then sh*t!
My first reaction to this story was one of bafflement, as to how a country can prosecute other country's citizens on crimes they theoretically committed based on principal, or moral beliefs...yet I guess if the roles were reversed (Saddam Hussein) we would
take a stand for crimes we thought were against humanity (which we defined ourselves) and then applied them to a citizen of another country. I have to say, i really don't like politics...i think it's pretty sad...
I for one would have joined the "Draw Muhammad" contest if I had any drawing ability just for the hell of it. I personally find the entire situation hilarious and believe that life can't work without a sense of humor, which this lawyer obviously does not have.
As for posting "insulting things about someone else's religion," I do it sometimes to see the reaction, to 'stir the pot' so to say. It's fun to watch overly sensitive people with no sense of humor fly into a rage over some one else's silly and stupid comments. No one forced anyone in Pakistan to view the page, it wasn't put on a billboard and flown through the sky to be disruptive, you had to actively look and follow links to stumble upon this (or most comments insulting religion online) and thus if you don't wan to deal with it, then don't follow those links. It's very simple.
Execute the attorney, as hes offended me with his statements.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Then he could throw the stupid Pakistani lawyer in jail.
You're really trying to equate an act of infiltration on a computer system that was PHYSICALLY located in a country (which is tantamount to, at a minimum, criminal trespass) with a "crime" that's committed by housing information on a server NOT located in the country pursuing charges? I always knew this place was a little off but that's just special.
Here's the mistake I see everyone making every day, and it's right up there mistaking Jews with Judeans.
Jews came from Babylon, while an often-unheard counter to them were known as Yews that centered around Scotland, Ireland, and England. You will not hear anything about a Yew, only perceive. On the birthplace and same headstone of Pontius Pilate is planted a Yew; and it is this verry location is the oldest living creature in all of Yewrope.
Judea is the fighting-tribe of Israel, it's adherants are Judeans and often confused with Jews in name-only. The origin of Jews is from Babylon who adhere to the Talmud as from the Syngogue of Sha'tan. The ancestors of Jews are from Caan, the proprietors of Canaan that was consumed in sin and at war with Judea that it was then conquered. Jews created an administrative body penned STATE OF ISRAEL through The United Nations because Anglo-Saxon Israelites displaced Canaan to 13 regions with reigning Houses. When Jews spread throughout muslim countries, they recruited muslims to take the most prominent fortified town: Jerusalem, and ever since then it has always been a struggle between Jews and Judeans. The most militant of the battle is these Babylon'Talmud Jews of the Synagogue of Sha'tan trying to subvert the Hebrew'Torah Judeans of the Temple. You know a Yew from a Jew, because they refer to the original tongue Yeshuah and Yahweah rather than the diasporic corruptions Jewsus and Jewhovah.
There are plenty of resources out on the internet I can give you, but you'll find where you're going by what I've said.
I'm a recovering hick in the US, you insensitive clod!
A hick is someone who is ill-informed and backwards due to ignorance. A redneck is a more generic term for a backwards, ignorant person by choice, because they're convinced of their superiority.
So please, consider changing your otherwise apt assessment to "koran thumping redneck."
Thank you very much.
All that needs to be said about this nonsense has already been said: Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
Trying to reconcile extremely unlikely concepts with reality tends to lead to over-reaction.
you mean bond was doing it for the crown?
If the insult were expressed in a vacuum, I would have an easier time seeing it your way.
However, I struggle with the concept that we think others should shrug this off. How much damage have Western governments done to Pakistan, invading its neighbor, interfering in its elections, and bombing its citizens? Do you think you'd find it easy to laugh off a Pakistani web site's insult of your beliefs if your relatives had been killed by a Pakistani military incursion into your neighborhood?
I'm not saying I agree with the sentiment to prosecute people for heresy, but I do think those of us with the right to free speech might use it to voice criticism of our own actions before using it to hurl insults at those we've already injured.
Dawkins has two big religion-related fights that he engages in:
The largest Christian denominations do not interpret Genesis as a literal account of the creation of the world, so they don't engage in the debate in (1); that's the province of fundamentalist American sects. So, your response about biology is irrelevant to debate (2) as conducted by the mainstream Christian sects. And Dawkins really, really likes to engage in (2) despite knowing jack about theology.
Are you adequate?
[[:->
Blasphemy is a blast for me!
The son of one of Hamas's founders admits that the social restrictions on dating and sex in Islam and the Middle Eastern tribal society is one of the leading causes of militarism in Islam.
Of course it is. There's even a Pentagon handbook outlining that the most important part of nation building is getting the angry young men off the streets. We are biologically programmed to have a period of extreme activity and aggression during certain years of the males of the species. Channeling these energies from the intended purpose of mating into something else is very easy and has been one of the first tricks of social engineering discovered. Why do you think we recruit soldiers in their late teens? Physical performance is not the reason, it peaks a couple years later.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Islam was conceived approximately 700 years after Christianity. 700 years ago Christians were knee-deep in the Crusades. I think we have a ways to go before all of Islam pulls itself out of this hateful mess propagated by a militant few.
For best results, avoid doing stupid things.
Meanwhile, the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation.
I want to pay him cash, in case he succeeds! ^^
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
That is history prior to Christianity. No where in the New Testament will you violence being condoned for the followers of Christianity to participate in.
After a quick search on the internet I found plenty of counter-examples to that claim. One example: "For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (Matthew 15:4). How is telling people to kill disobedient children not condoning violence? Perhaps you should try listening to you own advice:
you should at least research the facts before you make claims
You don't see people from the fucked-up nations of subsaharan Africa wanting to terrorize Westerners, because Western nations don't have any involvement there (mainly because there's no oil).
Nigeria is pretty much sub-Saharan- well, at least the Niger Delta clearly is and there's a *ridiculous* amount of oil there.
Meanwhile, Somalia is also sub-Saharan and I seem to remember that there's a lot of Islamist terrorism associated with that country.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
To summarize all comments on this, the comments breakdown as follows:
97%Flamebait
1% Hyper-credulous patronizing pretentiousness
2% Off-topic
For unleashing the blight that is facebook and it's userbase upon the Internet
Sadly, Islam is actually relatively well-behaved by historical standards.
Why do Islamic apologists always compare Muslim nations today, to Christian nations of centuries ago, or millennia ago?
Muslims may not have changed their barbaric ways in the last 1000 years, but Christian nations are entirely different. In fact the Christian nations of centuries back are not really even Christian any more, the nations are primarily secular.
Public beheading, death by being stoning, amputation as punishment for stealing, a raped woman being sentenced to beating and incarceration because she accepted a ride with a man, death sentence for peaceful protests; yeah, that is really "well behaved."
We are the ones that have been claiming that countries have international jurisdiction in going after anyone that breaks their laws anywhere. We are to blame.
. . . the "Like" button to click for this story?
My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
Religion is nothing more than something to fight wars over so fuck it all
The reason why it's pointless to compare Islam directly to Christianity is that they're simply different religions, not just dogmatically but also historically. For example, Islam didn't have the problem of caesaropapism, for the most part, because early on secular and religious authority was united in the single ruler of the state, and later on there wasn't a single man embodying universal religious authority (Caliphs under Ottomans came close to that, but there was never anything quite like Papacy).
And there are more examples of crucial differences. Consequently, they face different problems, and overall evolve differently as well. Sometimes there are similarities and parallels, and it's helpful to draw them, but don't make too much out of it.
Listen to this, read this, learn it by heart:
Muslim Outrage
I'm rather anti-Islamic, but that is straight bullshit, sorry. To give a few examples:
"Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage." - not only there was outrage, there was outrage in fucking Saudi Arabia over that.
"Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage." - there was a lot of outrage over it from Muslims in pretty much all regions of Russia, precisely because they didn't want to be painted with the same extremist brush.
etc. Just because you don't read about it in Western newspapers, doesn't mean that it's not there.
One much less publicised site under attack is the irc network attached to icq,
There has been a coordinated plan in place for some time to "infiltrate" ircqnet, irc://irc.icq.com, with muslim ops to censor all opinion critical of islamist dogma.
The present situation is that nothing is done about the actions of muslim ops who clearly violate the TOS of Ircqnet. The ops furthermore harrass those critical of islam outside of the IRC network.
For example, posting links to sites which provide critical, and I might add, well thought out criticism of Islam such as http://www.faithfreedom.org or http://www.wikiislam.com will earn you a z-line and your IP address posted to anti-spam sites.
The Muslim ops patrol many non-Islamic channels, be they of an atheist Christian or political nature and automatically kick/ban those expressing opinions critical of even minor aspects of Islam.
The administration of IRCQnet either is too lazy to deal with these obvious problems or has been bent into submission by these fascists.
One of the obvious leadership members of this Islamist group is an op called fake / fake[a] who has a power base on a channel called #islam_chat. This person is also associated with various Islamist web sites such as http://www.islam-chat.org
I suspect that there is really a concerted effort by islamofascists to try to stifle out opposition to Islam on internet and the Muhammad Day cartoon censorship drive by them is but only the tip of the iceberg.
Posted as AC for very obvious reasons.
Well I know that they must produce allot of drugs around that area, but I don't think they should be having so much of that stuff.
Come on, lawyers and the kind smoking that much of the funny stuff then how can they come out of that shit hole that they got themselves into.
Well for starters they should stop confusing religion and politics, then the should quit doing drugs, third they should shove Mohamed and all their religious crap up their asses.
Are these guys for real? How much drugs do you need to be doing in order to believe that you can take this matter to the UN (or even just out of their borders) and be taken seriously?
We have to ask ourselves "where is the love?" because "if you only have love for your own race then you only leave space to discriminate and to discriminate only generates hate"
So wake up dudes and remember "winners don't use drugs" lol
If Pakistan has broad-based support for such a measure, they should simply cut off access to FaceBook nationwide. Self-determination, right? Just because we believe in freedom of speech (even when used to inflame and insult) doesn't mean we have to mandate that same value for them.
One funny thing about freedom of speech is that, once you take it away, you don't really know what the populace think anymore.
I mean, 100% of all citizens of North Korea love their Dear Leader... or at least say that much if you ask... so are they really exercising their right to self-determination and running the country according to their true wishes and desires?
Religion was born when the first con man met the first fool.
I'd like to buy homeland for our 10 million people. http://twitter.com/mahadiga
How about we step up the offence? Let's have a "Draw Allah" day!
I'm much more funny, interesting and insightful than the moderators think
Care to link to an example of this alleged outrage?
For once I can use this quote and have it relate slightly to the topic at hand: "I'm going to creat my own internet! With Blackjack! And Hookers!"
Also, I wonder what the people who post insulting things about someone else's religion think they're achieving. Is there any beneficial outcome from that?
Why does there need to be? Why should my right to voice my opinion be based on the productivity of my opinion?
It's a stupid circle. You can't talk bad about religion because it's rude. Why is it rude? Because people aren't used to it or open to it. Why aren't they used to it and more open to it? Because people don't do it.
Reduce religious intolerance, insult a religion today.
Learn to love Alaska
Why do we tolerate this bullshit? Religion is a mental illness that requires institutionalization, so the diseased don't harm others. Only when it can be shown that individuals are not a danger to the community should they be released and placed on a public list like sex offenders (obviously there is a lot of overlap between the two)
You can have your god back when you are old enough to handle the responsibility.
Toss in a whackjob cult - called islam - WOW
Ever notice how mad people go - and how easy it is to make them go mad.....
Tell them that there is a devil, and that after the process of making people hate themselves, their own body and their own natural functions - which depersonalises them and then splits them off from their selves and reality - so that they are always obeying what they are told instead of questioning it, and they are always trying to be right according to the rules, even tho the rules have no grounding in fact or reality.
So they become neurotic - and start to think that after having been forced to disassociate from themselves through the mind, body, feelings connection - that in the natural process of self reconnecting with selves, that "intrusive thoughts" now become "the enemy" and one has to start to grovel at the magic sticks on the wall and say silly incantations such as "Get behind thee satan".....
And have you ever noticed that even tho the mighty fictitious diety who I am told - and for it is written, has all power for all time, that after the asking, nay telling the fictitious entity "IN the name of jeeezers, get behind theee oh satan" - that the fictitious diety never actually seems to stay getted behind the?
And the madness continues.....
Religion is such an evil mind fuck - and it's profitable too, IF you can get people on the back foot and keep them off balance by creating shit for them to follow, instead of giving them the time and resources to think and compare what is actually being taught to them, with external and different realities.
Like is that actually true, or is it just shit that is being fed to me?
Fear, manipulation, guilt, shame, threats of violence or the implied threat of violence......
This is a little bit fuzzy - mainly due to time, the tribes and civilisations and their movements and all of that. It's all terribly interwoven and there is an awful lot to write about.
So your getting the simplified point form version.
OK the people monkey slime apes crawled out of middle Africa, they migrated THROUGH the areas of the Nile river and delta and the Euphrates river and delta (Babylon Mesopotamia).
It involves squillions of people, dieties and hocus pocus bullshit.
a) There is no such thing as jews. (or moslems, or cathaholics, or Jehoovers Witlessness, or Morons, or Anglecans, or Jesewerits, Prodestants, Baptists, lutherans - it's all just whack job brand names and clubby bullshit.
b) There was a bunch of the evolved ape people who were dead beat goat herders, who decided that conning people and manipulating them with superstitious crap was a good and profitable way of controlling them.
c) So after they went through Babyon, they stole the codified state laws - which were a generalised theme in the middle east. These were the Code of Hammurabi - who was the then King of Babylon.
d) Then they basically lopped the cover off the book and stuck their own title on the cover and did a little redrafting and they called it the Old Testicle.
e) If you follow the link at the end, you can compare the Code of Hammurabi to the first 6 books of the old testament that are almost verbatim in whole or in significant parts, direct plagarised versions of The Code of Hammurabi.
Just look for "sign posts" like "Thou shalt not fuck thy donkey". etc.
f) So the tribe got their own diety,their own book of the dieties laws that they redrafted for it, and their cause became a noble righteous cause, on behalf of their diety and they went to war against everyone else and their dieties, because their diety told them too... and they with sword occassionaly in hand, flogged, looted and fucked their way through the middle east.
In real estate terms that is called forced eviction and acquisition of title by default.
g) So this crap of absorbing the most devious aspects of
.
Voting up, Voting down - If I really gave a fuck about your approval or not, I'd come and ask you.
Pakistan needs to be flooded with derogatory comments about Mohammed. Pounded relentlessly. Anonymous would be perfect for the job.
If only there were some kind of "final solution" that would rid the world of these decadent heathens.
Nobody can logically explain why it's okay to kill someone when it isn't okay to kill someone.
Lets take a hypothetical case, where a kidnapper takes a random person and locks him in a confined space (basement)
Unfortually hes caught by the law and convicted of kidnapping, and sentance to be serve time in a confined space (jail).
Care to explain why its ok to lock someone up, when its not ok to lock someone up?
As for actual logic.
A death sentance would stop reoffending of convicted murderers.
What point does locking someone up for life, where they can do no good or bad, only act as a burden to tax payers serve
A human life does not have a value that can be mesured in wealth or goods, but that doesn't mean there aren't reasons why death isn't justified or worse, deserved.
http://archive.arabnews.com/?page=1§ion=0&article=13448&d=13&m=3&y=2002&pix=kingdom.jpg&category=Kingdom
Did the Pakistani government click the "I lynch this" button?
There are no karma whores, only moderation johns
I draw the best Mohammed ASCII art:
o_o
Do you think you'd find it easy to laugh off a Pakistani web site's insult of your beliefs if your relatives had been killed by a Pakistani military incursion into your neighborhood?
I really don't know how I'd react, though I know that if it was some random citizens on a social networking site having fun, I wouldn't care. If it was official comments on an official site for the country, then I might have more of a problem. The entire point I'm trying to make is that this isn't a case of people doing something with the pure intention of hurting feelings. This isn't a case of people running through the neighborhood going up to each person and saying "your beliefs are stupid" it's a bunch of people on Facebook, doing something to protest actions they believe were stupid. They aren't being disruptive, they aren't flying banners of these "insulting" pictures. They just picked one corner of the internet to have their little pow-wow. Regardless of your opinion, to say that anyone should be insulted by it whatsoever beyond "oh you stupid people" is ridiculous.
Now you're just arguing with yourself. The entire reason behind the idea of "the internet routes around damage" is its physical and logical topology. I'm not sure you actually understand how the internet works.
I can't tell if you are just stupid or trolling, lets just assume the former.
The Internet topology is designed to rout around damaged segments. The comparison of censorship to physical network damage is a virtual damage to physical damage analogy.
The reason I say the topology is irrelevant to the point I was making is that the analogy is the same basic concept wither you are speaking about physical damage to the network, or simply censorship.
If that isn't plain enough for you:
The Internet routers rout packets around damaged segments. People who can't get the information they want from censored sources connected to the Internet look elsewhere on the Internet.
The statement you made is wrong. QED.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
From reading all these comments, it's pretty obvious that a lot of you still have no clue what Islam is and the how truly fanatical it's followers are. I grew up in a muslim country and have had many muslim friends that explained to me that what it is and it is based on complete faith where questioning it is not allowed and if you're not a muslim, you must convert or die ( sooner or later) and muslims will pretend to be your friend until that time comes. But don't take my words, here's a good read on history of Islam. http://go.to/islamhistory After reading it, you will probably see building of giant mosque in front of Wold Trade Center and several others within a few block radius in a whole new light...
It's one thing to call somebody "nothing" - quite another to call them a criminal and a felon. That's defamatory libel, unless you can prove that Alongi has been convicted of one or more felonies for which no discharge has been granted.
Calling somebody "nothing" is a matter of opinion, and as such, not defamatory.
Calling somebody a felon is not a matter of opinion - it is something that can either be true or false. As such, there is no 1st Amendment right to free expression of opinion.
It appears that you are making this "felon" claim based on a DMCA notice you may or may not have filed, rather than on any actual criminal conviction. If so, that's not just foolish - it's defamatory libel.
Of course, that's not the real issue for slashdotters - the real issue is how anyone can expect, in this day and age, a hollow threat to NOT attract attention. (Streisand Effect).
And this: http://www.kristopeit.com/family_tree.php?top_person_id=74&by_photo=1&spouse_photo=1&step_kids=1&show_nicknames=0&show_everyone=1 - replacing your picture in your family tree with a message about someone else saying they are nothing - what's up with that? It makes it look like you and your wife are splitting up and this guy is taking your place.
Q. What's better than winning an argument on the Internet?
A. Not being retarded.
Q. What's better than winning two arguments on the Internet?
A. ICE CREAM!!!
Instead of getting all upset over the picture link, you could have done like any real slashdotter - checked the url, and if it came from slashdot, do a redirect to goatse or tubgirl or some such. It's one line of php.
The reason I'm interested in this sort of thing is because I've been threatened with law suits and/or DMCA notices 3 times so far this year - and my response each time was to publish the threats and make fun of them. In all 3 cases, the supposedly infringing material is still up, but now firmly linked to the person in question.
I don't know if clone will take the same action - but it's usually the best cure-all for these sorts of threats.
Unfortunately, the only way for you to remove your defamatory postings here is to delete your account. It's something to consider.
Not at all. Why do you think I replied with my full email instead of my short one? If I had hit reply, it would have gone from the last-name-only email account, which is where a lot of junk mail lands - I actually had to select a different profile manually to use my personalized email account. It's all there in my slashdot profile and journal.
Of course, for you a penis is very important - after all, you're a dick. That's why you have what, 2 fans?
Michael Kristopeit: 2 fans
Me: 539 fans
Squiggleslash: 233 fans
For everyone watching: Kristopeit emailed both me and squiggy over some alleged "felony copyright infringement" by clone54321. I pointed out, in private, that he was wrong about the law (Title 17 is pretty clear), and that the best thing to do was to just ignore the whole thing and it would go away by Monday. It looks like squiggy did pretty much the same thing.
Rather than let it die down, the idiot posts one lie after another. First claiming that he has registered the copyrights (they are not - I checked), then claiming that they were registered to his business (they were not - I checked).
My only question for Kristopeit at this point is - do cmwmaw1978@comcast.net, number45@hockeyemail.com, rckristy@famvid.com, kevhag@yahoo.com, rachel@kristopeit.com, jokr56@yahoo.com, dave@kristopeit.com, trudy@kristopeit.com, tomkristopeit@hotmail.com, mrsbocchino@yahoo.com, deanna_krisopeit@msn.net, rjhansen@execpc.com, grandpabaldy@mybluelight.com, ewridt@rlinet.net, rah1994@yahoo.com, rjhansen@execpc.com, and pkristop@charter.net know that you spend your time attacking women who don't agree with you on the internet?
(and no, I waste time compiling the email list - it's a one-line curl command and a one-line cat | fgrep mailto)