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FBI Releases Document Confirming Roswell UFO
schwit1 writes "An investigator for the Air Force stated that three so-called flying saucers had been recovered in New Mexico. They were described as circular in shape with raised centers approximately 50 feet in diameter. Each one was occupied by three bodies of human shape, but only 3 feet tall dressed in metallic clothing of very fine texture."
Last noises heard from dying aliens: "Ack, ack, ack..."
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
We have confirmation the FBI is not a serious organization...
This raises more questions than answers. For a start, this really is on vault.fbi.gov servers, so either it's real or a VERY risky hoax.
However, assuming it's real for now, WHY HAS THIS NOT LEAD TO A FLURRY OF OTHER EVIDENCE FROM ELSEWHERE?
Clearly the mask is off now? The government know about saucers, otherwise there wouldn't be such a casual write-off at the end of the doc.
So were they short Russians? Germans who found it in a barn after WWII and got it working? COME ON FBI, do your jobs and give us a proper INVESTIGATION!
This tagline was transcoded to result in at least one smirk. If you experience failure to smirk, please consult your Gen
Everyone knows it was Zoidberg, Leela, Fry, Bender, and Professor Farnsworth.
The document almost makes it sound like hearsay. It says an investigator stated that, but then goes on to say that it was provided by an informant. Doesn't sound terribly sound, and it says that no further investigation was done, which probably means that the FBI had a good laugh about it and then filed it away.
The document is a report outlining another individual's report. It's neither admission nor documentation of the incident by the FBI, just a record that someone has made a statement about the incident. It's worthless.
Just when I'm watching DS9 this comes up. AWESOME! This doesn't actually prove that there WERE actual aliens, only confirms of the original report which could just as well be bogus.
I HOPE IT IS NOT. I want me an Asgard friend* and one of those computers that lets me build what I want!
* Everyone knows that Slashdotters have no friends.
Slashdot needs Geekcode | Can anyone recommend any good SCIFI? My tastes: Foundation, Startide Rising, CITY, Ringworld,
Is it really a "Secret FBI memo" if I can get it on the FBI's website?
Wow, I have been spending way too much time coding. I completely lost track of the date!
Palm trees and 8
does the document detail whether the base did, after all, belong to them?
Read the article carefully - it neither denies nor confirms anything. This is a report documenting what an informant said, and does not suggest any first hand knowledge about anything...
This post is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 License.
Is just how did Obama manage this from Kenya BEFORE hes was born, I bet Glen knows...
Just like how in most movies a 5.56x45mm round drops the alien invaders dead despite the fact they managed to survive a crash landing to Earth.
Funny how they chose to cover up a military experiment with a UFO story. They thought UFO crashes were so common no one would bother asking questions.
Really. We are to believe these have some level of technology that is vulnerable to RADAR?
or not.
FAQs are evil.
FBI Releases Document Confirming *A REPORT OF A* Roswell UFO
FTFY
The document says "so-called flying saucers" with 3 foot tall human shaped bodies wearing test pilot guard, No where does it say "aliens" in the document. They were obviously dwarf test pilots.
too many AC naysayers here. clearly the govt. is still trying to cover it up.
... so the human race is prepared for the incoming attack fleet of aliens that are on the edge of the solar system as we speak.
That is all.
call Agent Mulder !
The problem with the Roswell folklore has always been that the story completely went away until the point in time when, coincidentally, the actual witnesses had died of old age.
Now, I'm no expert on this incident, but Wikipedia says that the first report of a flying disk came in 1947. This memo was dated March 22, 1950. It doesn't say when the statement was issued (or that part has been redacted), but if people had already been speculating about flying saucers, then that eyewitness account proves nothing.
Also, that is a major MAJOR headline fail.
...that somebody at the FBI has a sense of humor?
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Yeah, that was an aprils fool guys.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
We've had confirmations for years. I still say this is the cheapest way to keep our true tech level a secret from the rest of the world. This is a self-feeding conspiracy theory.
Only the dead have seen the end of War. - Plato
1 - If any government comes into possession of unknown advanced technology gaining a (military/economic) advantage over other's, they will hide it, make it top secret, obscure it and take any measures to keep it that way.
2 - Considering the number of existing suns and planets of known galaxies, one can be 100 % sure that there are other advanced civilizations far older than the 0.4 - 1.5 M years since human-like species on this planet have used fire.
3 - Would a more advanced species even bother to deal with humans on this planet given the idiocy going on - hardly.
So, get a beer!
Area 51 is chock full of advanced but terrestrial technology. The government leaks this stuff seemingly confirming UFO's or half-assed and inadequate cover stories just to stir up conspiracy nuts. You tell someone you saw strange things in the sky over Groom Lake, people will smile and twirl their fingers in circles beside their heads.
I think the odds of alien life in this universe are very good; I think the odds for intelligent life are also good. But unless there's some lovely scifi physics waiting out there for us, space travel seems like it'll be awfully damned expensive and complicated. And little green men in flying saucers seems a little too -- how should I put it --- mundane? Too mundane for an interstellar alien intelligence.
When you consider that in light of the cheesy denials, it seems like it's not just paranoids getting worked up over nothing, it looks like the government is egging them on. Therefore my theory of using aliens to cover for the real secrets.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
to the point that they can even disclose real material without any fear for any reaction anymore, mission ******* accomplished. so sad. mrn
Two documentaries explaining why those aliens will never contact us First Contact and They Are Made Out of Meat .
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
Is it a coincidence that the last modified date on the PDF is March 31?
You know... as in the day before April Fools?
If that were the case, I'd be even more scared... who would have thought the FBI had a sense of humour?
$0.02 (CDN)
Samzenpus, I'm filtering your articles. This is ten levels of stupid.
I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
Man, you guys never get news stories out in a timely manner, this one is 9 days old!
Monstar L
Maybe inertial damping fields don't work on bullets?
Oh, I'm so sorry for using an abbreviation that's been in common use on /. for years. Maybe you could post on your account instead of AC next time you want to crtiticise someone.
Shadow == B5
Slashdot needs Geekcode | Can anyone recommend any good SCIFI? My tastes: Foundation, Startide Rising, CITY, Ringworld,
Where are the bodies?
I agree that it's just "another sensationalist samzenpus headline", but I think that there was probably more to the original Air Force memo than what you said. IIRC, there actually was a crash in the area, apparently of a secret airplane. The USAF would naturally want to know how much foreign spies could learn from talking to the local population. It's not surprising that the USAF would have investigators find out and document what the locals would say about the crash, no matter how crazy it was.
Knowledge is the small part of ignorance that we arrange and classify. (Ambrose Bierce)
" However, assuming it's real for now, WHY HAS THIS NOT LEAD TO A FLURRY OF OTHER EVIDENCE FROM ELSEWHERE? "
Already has already happened, many times. For example, respected and not discredited Retired Colonel Philip J. Corso exposed his part in this. But there is a group of crackpot disbelievers who just can't accept the truth, and just keep repeating the same nonsense like "if this were true someone would have leaked it" no matter how many times people do try to leak and expose it.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Or perhaps they were damaged by the crash landing and the bullet shot pushed them over the edge?
"To prevent this day from getting any worse, I'll just read ERROR as GOOD THING" 1GJU8xLuDKDxEs4KLf8fAGyptoDsqvEsBT
What the document says is "there is this guy who says he saw flying saucers" - that doesn't really prove anything.
Hell there are constantly people who say they've seen flying saucers.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
So they're like... related to Bill the Cat? I mean, surely... not? Bill was nothing but a collection of hairballs...
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
No bodies, no story.
No story, no UFO industry.
No UFO industry, no Roswell.
Therefore by staying home, space aliens have destroyed Roswell, New Mexico. I get it now.
I misread something on another site. The informant was saying what an Air Force investigator supposedly said, not the other way around. It is notable that the SA (FBI Special Agent) decided that what what the informant said wasn't worth investigating. That's in the PDF of the FBI memo. I wish I could delete my own comments.
Knowledge is the small part of ignorance that we arrange and classify. (Ambrose Bierce)
I'm not buying into the idea that some super-advanced alien race would defeat the speed of light somehow and then immediately use that technology to travel millions of light years just to give some pink barely-evolved half-monkeys anal probes. Every report can be explained away as hoax, government experimental test aircraft or some guy in a trailer park not wanting to admit that his anal probe came from his neighbor, not some alien species.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
The FBI didn't seem to be deceived. A special agent talked to the informant, and didn't bother investigating any further. Guy Hottel (probably his superior) wrote a memo summarizing what the informant said. I think that was all that there was to it.
Knowledge is the small part of ignorance that we arrange and classify. (Ambrose Bierce)
Government bureaucracy again. Nine days late.
I thought this was a reference to early sightings of over the horizon nuclear tests that needed to be suppressed, during the time of Oppenheimer.
I had been assuming the stories were a "second cover".
This is a psychological ploy allegedly used by security agencies to hide things that are really important and worth the effort. They set up two cover stories: The first cover story is public and something plausible. The second cover story is nutty and withheld, but evidence for it is planted. When somebody realizes that the first cover is a lie and digs deeper they encounter the planted evidence for the mind-numbingly wild second cover. Then they are placed in the position of either looking like a fruitcake or giving up. (After all, anything they dig up on the REAL story could also be another lie.)
If it is a second cover, the existence of such a memo in the archives could just be a leftover piece of the planted evidence.
As for what's behind the hypothetical second cover, an explanation released a few years back seems plausible: Balloon-lofted high-altitude drop tests of a predecessor to the mercury capsule reentry heat shield - which looked a lot like the contemporary depictions of flying saucers.
The Cold War was raging at the time and the early space program was military and extremely secret. So tests on the first cut at retrieving people and devices from orbit would logically be performed at a remote, highly-classified, military aircraft test site, with the agencies going to extreme lengths to cover the work from spies, just as they did with the Manhattan Project.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
All of your bases belong to US.
its an official fbi document, on official fbi site, stating that an official usaf investigator has had told an official fbi agent that 3 saucers were recovered in roswell.
its an official memo piece of an official fbi agent. political investigations have been conducted and charges conveyed in court cases and inquiries with lesser testimonies and evidence before. yes, its solid enough.
and this information was reported to j edgar hoover, the greatest psychopath to be ever in charge of a major organization in united states. he had made a habit of knowing every single usable information piece in order to keep his hold on a lot of matters, and apparently this was no exception. it is 100% that, hoover, in all his control mania, had not left that case there, and obtained further information.
Read radical news here
(Checks todays date)
Nope, April 10, not April 1... what gives?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Dude, they were just looking for a bathroom! You have any idea how hard it is to find a rest stop in this spiral arm of the galaxy?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
We need to be able to moderate stories. This is the single worst piece of drivel to have ever come across the front page at /.
Man, this AI is SOOOO flunking the Turing test! This is just random gibberish! Even ELIZA could do better than that!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
"This is a psychological ploy allegedly used by security agencies to hide things that are really important and worth the effort. They set up two cover stories: The first cover story is public and something plausible. The second cover story is nutty and withheld, but evidence for it is planted. When somebody realizes that the first cover is a lie and digs deeper they encounter the planted evidence for the mind-numbingly wild second cover. Then they are placed in the position of either looking like a fruitcake or giving up. (After all, anything they dig up on the REAL story could also be another lie.)"
+1 Matrix!
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
A possible clue ..
Did the clothing have a tag reading "Designed in California"?
Never mind the REAL stuff the government is trying to hide. Lets look at old Roswell bullshit!
How well the government has been successful in not only hiding this subject despite how they were trading information in between agencies, but also how they have been able to suppress that information and been able to discredit those who stalked the information and made them appear as cuckoos.
Its a downward spiral actually. once you start suppressing information that public may take as important and create victims through either direct repression or public image assassination, you accrue liability - in case of public learning this, it is inevitable that those who were victimized by this disinformation and repression would start suing the agency, government and those responsible. so you are locked in denial and repression cycle. especially in this case, public would ask whether any advanced technologies were recovered from these craft, and what usaf did with them - if the fact that advanced technology that could help our civilization was recovered, but hid, public will rightfully want to crucify those who hid it.
one thinks that, considering how well they have hid this information, what else they may be hiding.
another curious part is, how big and well a maneuver fbi has done by releasing this in an easily accessible manner to the public. even tho this was available in 1970, not having direct access to this info had made it dubious in the eyes of the public. but broadcasting it directly from fbi site basically makes even the hardest skeptic question, and the masses take notice of this, leading to one very important result :
fbi has basically dropped the bomb in usaf's lap. now, in the case of disclosure happening, noone will lynch fbi, because the document basically says that fbi didnt have any responsibility in that matter - it was usaf's doing. military arm of the government will be taking the heat, totally liberating and saving active and retired fbi personnel.
a wise move in the light of the fact that last 2-3 years have been the years that major governments of the world has been releasing their secret ufo files, despite u.s. resisting doing the same and even ridiculing existence of such secret files. (leave aside how stupid it is to ridicule existence of those files, after russia, britain, france released theirs).
it can be expected that we may see other agencies trying to evade any responsibility in the matter by taking precautions.
Read radical news here
I've debated wasting my time here but will give it a shot. I'm almost 84. I went through Navy electronics school at Treasure Island (San Francisco) in 1946. I was living in military housing in a place called Midway Village on the outskirts of SF near Moffett Field (Navy blimp hangars). One night I went down stairs (second floor apartment) to empty the trash. I glanced toward Moffett field (like a few miles away) because I saw something that could have been a blimp with lights flashing it's entire length like a marque. I was fascinated because blimps I know don't have full length light displays. At that time Navy personnel went through fairly intensive aircraft identification courses so I knew the characteristics of most of the worlds aircraft. As I watched three "objects" appeared to detach themselves from the "object" I was watching and began moving toward me. Needless to say I was now very interested. There "flight path" was taking them directly toward me at what I would estimate at under 5 knots - very slow. As they resolved they appeared about the shape of what you might remember in The Day The Earth Stood Still. The undersides looked to me like the remains of a dying fireplace coal fire. I called up to my wife to come down and look. She came down (they were traveling slowly enough that they were overhead when she looks up). I said "What are those?" and she gasped and said "Flying saucers!' They WERE in directed flight whether controlled by onboard whatever or remotely. I can only report what I saw but the memory remains indellible!
"The War Of The Worlds", simple as that. My grandfather brought me one of his flight books to show "military logic" and it said "THERE ARE NO UFOS...but if you see one don't fire unless fired upon". Him and his buddies used to LMAO about that one. How do you "not fire unless fired upon" something that doesn't exist?
Sadly MiB summed up the military view of the population perfectly "A Person is smart, people are dumb dangerous panicky animals and you KNOW it". Frankly if a saucer landed on the White House lawn to do repairs the MSM would be handed a bulletin telling them to talk about "the new alien movie being filmed today in Washington" and that would be it.
Do they have alien tech? Don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me. The US military has been to just about every single place on the planet, if anything crashes I have no doubt they would snatch it. will they EVER tell the American people? NOT A CHANCE IN HELL.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
If you are going to come to this planet, at least learn how to drive!!
A possible clue ..
Did the clothing have a tag reading "Designed in California"?
No, it was mithril. At the end of the Third Age, the hobbits took to outer space.
sudo eat my shorts
BULLSH. Most special access programs are solely for the purpose of avoiding oversight. There is NO oversight on the money going into special access programs. Tens of thousand of people have seen the stealth blimp and the only reason to keep it secret at this point is to conceal the monies being spent on the program from public scrutiny. If people have seen it, there is a web page about it, then sure as hell our adversaries know about it. Lets end the top secret bullsh*t.
A document with some official stamps can be made by anyone. Pictures of the saucerer and aliens with mettalic clothes would be more interesting. Not that those couldn't be photoshopped of course...
What's the big deal? It sounds like a simple security breach at someone's combination midget zoo/aerospace museum.
-Sigh- not again.
Roswell explained:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2334857802602777622&ei=DoRESannBJLAqAL5p7z4DA&q=physics
It will take an hour but it explains the Roswell UFO stuff and why it was classified.
More fascinating IMO than aliens....
Really ? something concerning potential extraterrestrial civilization and technology, is 'idle' ?
which moron tagged this 'idle' ?
Or, is it that the reflexive conditioning (like another form of sheeple) that a lot of the 'smart' people have against this ufo subject, justifying the belittlement and despising of the subject as 'idle' ?
this is fbi's official document finally hitting mainstream attention, despite it existed since 30 years, and has been dismissed easily because it wasnt easy for public to reach it themselves. (thanks internet).
a better disclosure and admittance from this, would be various usaf, nsa directors, maybe 1-2 deceased ex presidents resurrecting and giving a press release in tears, saying that they are sorry they hid this from public, and braving the crucifixion that would bring up.
since that wont happen, and those responsible always try to cover their ass, this is as disclosure as it gets.
despicable is the scorn of the scholastically inclined, to things that are yet unknown or new, despite being taught a lot of things that were previously unknown before in their education.
there are two kinds of intellectual people in this world ; those who think further than the horizon into the yet unknown, and those who parrot what the previous pioneers from the first group has discovered before.
most of the academia falls into the second group.
Read radical news here
Read by little ole ladies during TV white noise channeling session: "ACK ACK our secret is out ARK ARK you are our cattle ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ we shall feast BEEP BEEPP
Well alrighty then.... Where is my foil hat?
Isn't this post about 9 days too late.
**ALERT** The Integrity of the posts on SlashDot has hit bottom, and is now showing signs it is starting to DIG.
(Actually shouldn't this be on Digg)
Not only that, but I have a limited number of authentic crew uniforms and unit patches available, while they last. I'm going to put them up on eBay, just as soon as I post this. Sorry the uniforms will only fit someone about 3 feet tall.
Someone had to say it.
No, "it has to be" because the story is patently absurd.
Let's just start with: If the best way to build a craft that can travel through both outer space and all layers of a planetary atmosphere is to make it in the shape of a big disc, why have none of Earth's aerospace engineers ever built a craft using that shape? I guess it must have taken the Roswell incident to convince them it was a bad idea.
How about: How did aliens travel across countless light years of space to reach our planet in a craft that was just 50' in diameter? Presumably a couple generations of the crew would have grown old and died on the voyage. That's a pretty small space to raise a family in.
And how did these aliens plan to get back? Or if they weren't planning to get back, and they were just living on our planet in secret, wouldn't it be a lot easier to preserve the secret of their existence if they just drove cars, like regular people? If they look weird they could always have hired a guy to drive them around in the back of a delivery truck.
All kinds of things happen and the government covers up all kinds of things. But if you honestly think anybody should read into this story more than that some crackpot spread misinformation to someone else, who documented it and promptly stuck it in a file cabinet with all the other crackpot garbage -- then you're a credulous moron.
Breakfast served all day!
Oh the horror! The first link is using a flash based document viewer! It's running like a slug on my browser, and I'm also wondering why any sane programmer would code such a monstrosity over just distributing a PDF? Oh wait, it's the FBI...
I doubt that we will never know the exact truth about what happened at Roswell considering the amount of time passed and the disinformation that has been injected into the claim. So the truth has now come down to what you believe taking on almost religious overtones. As an armature ufologist I have to approach this from a pure scientific standpoint and leave all objectivity aside. Sad to say just as Webmistress said this is a report taken from an individual and proves nothing.
Chris Sheppard
Frankly if a saucer landed on the White House lawn to do repairs the MSM would be handed a bulletin telling them to talk about "the new alien movie being filmed today in Washington" and that would be it.
Why does everyone assume visiting aliens would want to, much less know to, head for a political power center? If they have some way of identifying intelligent activity and/or warm bodies from a distance they might hover over a major population center, send a shuttle down to NYC or LA or whatever; or they might specifically seek to avoid population centers until they can do some recon and identify potential threats. Otherwise they'd just make a decision based on geographic features and find someplace easy to land and take off from. IF intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe and IF they decide to visit and/or happen upon our planet by chance, it's not going to be a blurry, grainy thing that could be interpreted as swamp gas or weather balloons. You can't miss an intergalactic space vehicle landing on your planet any more than you can miss the Hindenberg hitching up to its mooring mast. That's not to say I think there is any reason to believe these aliens exist. I would never say it's impossible, but I don't buy into "there are so many stars in the universe, odds support at least one of them having intelligent life". There are googillions of grains of sand, too, but large quantities of anything don't automatically force a higher probability of any grain of sand containing intelligent life.
The US military has been to just about every single place on the planet, if anything crashes I have no doubt they would snatch it. will they EVER tell the American people? NOT A CHANCE IN HELL.
See above. They'd have to beat armies of UFO hunters to the site and destroy every land-based and satellite-based photo in existence. Our world, as dictators are finding out the hard way, is too wired to make suppression of information possible any longer.
Just like how in most movies a 5.56x45mm round drops the alien invaders dead despite the fact they managed to survive a crash landing to Earth.
There is not an inconsistency there.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
I don't actually believe there are aliens visiting us and so on, but I leave room for doubt. Your logic is based on our technology and our current knowledge (in fact logic can only be based on current knowledge).
All your questions could have some answer that we don't know yet. Traveling countless light years for example could not be necessary with some other kind of technology. Or why our engineers didn't come up with that shape, because there is some other kind of science behind it.
'story is PATENTLY' absurd, says the random persona on the internet. random person on the internet using strongly expressed and stressed wordage against an actual official government agency's official report stating the nature of an incident.
.....
.... expecting to discourage others from accepting what you personally despise or cant bring yourself to accept, is much more sad and pathetic.
and for that, he shows 'how can xxxx, yyyy, zzz' as reasoning. the mindset is 'it cant be'
this is what i am talking exactly is about -> usage of mind, open mind, and looking over the horizon. 'HOW CAN' is the NEXT question. at this point, situation is 'IT HAS'.
you are producing reasons against the official admittance of an incident which will bring great problems and pains against not only the government, but also even retired personnel of that or other agencies. it goes way back. the minimum that will happen even if they dont prosecuted and crucified, would be getting subjected to endless number of inquiries in front of senate commissions the minimum. noone in any government would dare risk disclosure of something that would bring great pains to themselves if disclosed.
yet, it has been disclosed. it had happened.
your situation is at this point, is of denial -> you are wanting to return to earlier comfortable status quo. that is not the behavior of an open mind -> the open mind would accept the situation, and then start asking questions like 'who', 'why', 'how', 'when', 'what followed'
and really, stop with the pathetic wordage like 'if xxxx yyy, you are a credulous moron' -> dont sweat it. its OFFICIAL fbi document's word against random internet smartie's word
it is an official document that declares that 3 flying saucers and 3 apparently nonhuman entities were confiscated in roswell, and then the subject has remained hidden. period.
Read radical news here
MOD UP!
Disclosure: I do not work for the mafia (and if I did, I would not say so here).
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Uhhh...did you miss the "for repairs" part friend? Please feel free to insert NYC, Paris, anyplace where there is a shitload of cameras. I simply used DC as it is a place where there are a ton of tourists with cameras, see the getting your pic made with a cutout of the president for an example.
I think the "grain of sand part" you focused on misses the bigger question , which would be "How many of those have FTL capability?" which Sagan pointed out in several of his works that even if you had a billion stars with inhabited planets the odds that even one of those has BOTH FTL drives AND would come to what is arguably the "ass end of the galaxy" just to fuck with the hairless monkeys? Pretty damned small. Hell if any of them DID come it would be a "gorillas in the mist" kinda thing where they would take pics of the primitives. it isn't like they would look upon man as any more special than fungus.
As for your "see above" with UFO hunters and the like? Frankly it doesn't make a damned difference WHAT they see or get it is what the MSM says that is important. See how more than 40% at last count of the American people thought we went into Iraq over 9/11! The population by and large ONLY believes what the TV tells them to, and if the TV says all those films are bullshit and the witnesses crackpots? Well then THAT is what they'll believe! Hell our government has propaganda and misinformation down so pat I'm waiting for a news report to say "Four alarm fire makes way for GLORIOUS new tractor factory!" like they had on Airplane II.
Again are there aliens out there? I honestly don't know, but as a scientific agnostic I want more than some shaky handycam footage before I believe shit. Would the government be honest to the people if they knew? NOT A CHANCE IN HELL. Hell we refuse to acknowledge Aurora or the stealth blimp or the pulse drive or any of the other new toys we are blowing ass loads of $$$ on, even though the desert rats can tell you when they take off and land! Bullshit and lies are SOP of the government, they sure ain't gonna change that for something as world changing as proof of extraterrestrial life.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
are those who have no question that this is irreversible proof that aliens landed in new mexico in the 1950s
and those (in fact, probably a large overlap of the same people between the two populations) who don't trust that barack obama was born in hawaii, despite all of the genuine irreversible proof
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
The shape of the craft in space is irrelevant, and the shape in the atmosphere is only relevant if either A. you are entering in free fall as our ships do (and thus need to dissipate a lot of heat) or B. you are using air to produce lift. If your craft stays aloft in some other way, the shape of the craft doesn't matter nearly as much.
Assuming, that is, that the aliens grow at the same rate we do. An alien with a 500 year lifespan would not have that problem. Also, there's the possibility of some sort of stasis or hibernation. You're making way too many wrong assumptions, starting with the assumption that any aliens we meet will be in any way like life on Earth.
Well, presumably in their ship. They probably were not planning to crash it.
Don't get me wrong, the most plausible explanation for UFOs is a secret experimental U.S. or Russian spy vehicle, and the most plausible explanation for the "aliens" is that they used midgets for weight/size reasons. Occam's Razor suggests that this is significantly more likely than an alien visitation. However, that doesn't mean that the alien explanation is impossible by any stretch of the imagination.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Holy shit! You weren't kidding about Florian Mueller flipping out. What a nutcase: he actually called Rob Enderle a "smart analyst", and Maureen O'Gara and Dan Lyons too. Maybe the UFO claim is real: you'd have to be a seriously damaged person (or a complete moron, or a complete shill) to praise Dan Lyons, Maureen O'Gara, and worst of all, Rob Enderle, and then claim to be any kind of friend of OSS at all.
I don't think I buy the alien tech thing. If humans had any alien tech, they probably would have reverse-engineered it and gotten some amazing new technologies from it by now. But that hasn't happened. Most of our most-advanced technology now comes from the silicon transistor, which I'm pretty sure is well-documented enough to show it wasn't of alien origin. We certainly haven't developed any advanced spaceflight technology; the best we've ever done was the WWII-derived Saturn rocket engines, and then we pretty much stopped. The only way we could have any alien technology is if it's so advanced that we can't understand the first thing about it, and it's sitting in a cave somewhere while some scientists are still trying to figure out how to open the hatch.
According to thousands of people here in Phoenix, we had a UFO fly right over the city about 12 years ago. The problem was, it was at night, and the thing was black, except for the lit parts, which were the only parts visible. Google for "Phoenix lights". Believers/eyewitnesses say the lights moved as one, slowly across the city, and if part of a single craft, would mean a craft over a mile long. Now of course, these might have just been military flares as claimed by the military, but IF it was a UFO, they certainly didn't avoid a population center here: this is a pretty big city (about 4 million now).
As for the grains of sand thing, sorry, but the odds are that there IS intelligent life out there somewhere, and probably quite a lot of it. To make life like ours, you just need a planet within a star's "habitable zone", where it's not too hot or too cold, and there's plenty of the materials needed for life, like oxygen, water, etc. We're just now finding out that there's tons of planets around stars out there (we've identified hundreds of exoplanets so far), and that's just around the stars we can see pretty closely. Our galaxy alone has something like a billion stars, and ours is one of billions of galaxies that we can see (that doesn't count all the ones we can't, with our primitive telescopes). Do the math. The odds that we're the only life in the universe is pathetically low, and the odds we're the only intelligent life is also very low. With numbers that astronomically large, it's a safe assumption that there's ETs out there, somewhere. The big question is if any of them have developed interstellar travel, and if any of those have bothered to visit us in this small, out-of-the-way star system. Since we haven't figured out how to travel to other stars ourselves (although we might be able to if we'd stop wasting our time and resources on stupid crap like unnecessary wars), we're not really in a good position to say what the odds are of anyone else developing such technology. This is like going back to 500 BCE and asking the Ancient Greeks how likely it is that someone in the Americas has developed microprocessors.
So if you ask me if ETs exist, I say "certainly". If you ask me if any have visited us, my answer is, "I don't know, and I'm doubtful". For all we know, they're all as self-destructive as we are, and destroyed themselves when they figured out how to split the atom. Or, maybe FTL drive really is impossible so none of them have bothered to leave their own star systems. There's no way to know unless we get some real evidence of actual alien visitors here.
not to mention that he is forgetting that we are already playing with experiments that change the experiment result AFTER the experiment has been concluded in quantum physics, debating the mechanics of wormholes, leave aside existence of, and the means space-time continuum can be warped. and as of this moment, a cyclotron is trying to find the smallest base particle.
his 'logic' comes from sheer ignorance of what his civilization is ALREADY doing.
Read radical news here
If they have the technology to cross interstellar space then one would assume staying hidden from us and not crashing would be trivial technological problems. Indeed we can already build aircraft invisible to radar, therefore any odd radar return cannot be a genuine UFO.
... one too many alien brews behind the flight controls and wham! Straight into a hillside in front of some frightened primates.
That said, it's unreasonable to assume an alien race doesn't have it's own problems with reckless individuals, criminals, stupidity and of course, adolesecents.
Bunch of adolescent ETs steal a beat up old jalopy without cloaking and go for a joy ride
Memo does state the creatures were 3 foot tall.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
Strange, or non-traditional (read Wright Brothers airfoils) can work. Look at the Stealth Bomber, Rutan's canard design, various flying wedges, and so on.
The veracity of the doc, the veracity of the observer, all can be called into question.
What did happen however, is that the FBI got several thousand free IP addresses of obvious slashdot readers. Perfect bait. Perfect.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
LOL! I love that you think experiments involving subatomic particles TODAY have anything AT ALL to do with something 61 YEARS AGO.
I am scientifically inaccurate.
The aliens were all midget clones of Lady GaGa.
Supporter of the +1 Over Dramatic mod option. In memory of apk.
Assuming, that is, that the aliens grow at the same rate we do. An alien with a 500 year lifespan would not have that problem.
But for an alien with a 500 year lifespan to spend that 500 years in a saucer-shaped vehicle that holds enough fuel to travel many light years' distance in a volume equivalent to a spacious city apartment, I'd say food would be an issue, to say nothing of insanity. That the aliens want to travel across the vastness of space at all implies that the aliens are compelled to move around. As for "some sort of stasis or hibernation," no animal we've ever encountered can hibernate for even one full year.
You're making way too many wrong assumptions, starting with the assumption that any aliens we meet will be in any way like life on Earth.
Which is yet another reason to discredit the article. Whomever perpetrated this fraud wasn't even far-sighted enough to postulate aliens that were significantly different from humans. Instead, they were three-foot-tall, humanoid bodies. I guess they could just coincidentally look like humans but actually have various super-powers that none of the life forms we've observed to date have -- such as muscles that never atrophy and cells that require no source of energy. But that sounds more like a '60s sci-fi story than science.
Breakfast served all day!
It's a week and a half late for April Fools, and it's on the FBI website...
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?
For those interested, the PDF metadata indicate it was created 8/18/2004, and modified on 03/31/2011. So... I have no goddamn idea.
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
"It is scientific only to say what is more likely and what less likely, and not to be proving all the time the possible and impossible....from my knowledge of the world that I see around me, I think that it is much more likely that the reports of flying saucers are the results of the known irrational characteristics of terrestrial intelligence than of the unknown rational efforts of extra-terrestrial intelligence." - Feynman
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
We're the space aliens, they're the locals. Most of us have just forgotten what happened after our birth on epsilon kappa. The earth used to be littered with little green men. We killed them all by installing air conditioners. Now and again, some come back for a visit, and we kill them too. This was one of those visits. That'll teach 'em.
Of course, there's always been a small supply of the Old Ones to use as actors in Space Alien movies. Kind of like the Indians in John Ford movies. But seriously, space aliens are clearly the first manifestation of the Cold War paranoia.
I just wonder how much money he made when he put his soul up for auction.
Maybe it was sort of like the Enterprise shuttlecraft or captain's yacht? The mothership could have stayed safely in orbit.
My rights don't need management.
I personally believe that Mr. Mueller gives far too much credit to PJ and Groklaw. I'm pretty sure the listing of esteemed individuals had more than a slight amount to do with damaging their own credibility without any help from PJ and Groklaw. And if Mr. Mueller wishes to hold these individuals up to such heights, it only speaks further of his own credibility.
i dont know whether youre an idiot or not, but in regard to good manners, i will respond :
the quantum physics experiments dabbling on the frontiers of TIME, was an example to how far even we already have gone, as a half assed civilization that can only hop its own planet for now. if, this concept does not open your mind to new frontiers, i wont be able to reply you anymore.
Read radical news here
yes. quoting opinion of random scholastic academician, at the wake of an actual fbi report SAYING that these extraterrestrials exist and government has procured their remans.
this is precisely the point i have made with my grandparent - so, i should believe someone's own OPINION at the wake of an actual government report of an actual incident. AFTER and DESPITE the admittance of the incident and its nature ?
why.
dont answer. the question is rhetorical. if one looks at science history, there are bigger morons than feynman, ridiculeing and calling impossible to things that we take as granted today. here is an excerpt :
http://amasci.com/weird/vindac.html#j43
Read radical news here
You're invoking "allowing enough time and research" as a magical solution to the fact that this is something that ONLY WORKS ON THE SUBATOMIC SCALE, and thus scaling it magically upward to the classical scale.
I am scientifically inaccurate.
Okay, let's say a 10,000 year lifespan, if that makes you happier....
Until last year, no animal we had encountered could produce energy by photosynthesis, either.
I tend to agree with you there, but it's possible that a roughly human form is a fairly optimal structure. Without a few billion examples of extraterrestrial life, it's rather hard to say for certain. And that's not even taking into account the possibility of exogenesis/panspermia.
Mind you, I'd say there are probably a million to one odds that it was deliberate disinformation, but there's still that long shot. I'd imagine that the odds of aliens existing are pretty close to 100%, but that the odds of aliens having enough in common with us to be interested in meeting us are slim, and that the odds of us ever actually meeting them across the vast expanse of space would make even the odds of them being interested seem huge by comparison. So one in a million is probably a high estimate....
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
50 years ago most of the technology you see today wasnt even a rumor. 100 years ago, the technology that was there 50 years ago, was not even ridiculed.
in 3-4 decades you may see something that WORKS OUT OF THE SUBATOMIC SCALE, based on what is working on subatomic scale, JUST LIKE HOW YOU HAVE NUCLEAR ENERGY NOW. IT ISNT MAGIC - IT HAPPENS. one has to be either exceedingly ignorant, or highly shallow, or a moron to discuss in such a subject, and yet somehow be unable to think what i just have told.
Read radical news here
You fail reading comprehension.
The document is produced by Guy Hottel and addressed to the director of the FBI.
In the document, Hottel writes that the information referred to in the document was provided to a special agent whose name is redacted. So we've already got a chain of four links here: the FBI Director, Guy Hottel at Strategic Air Command, the unnamed Special Agent, and the SA's source, whose name is also redacted after the preposition "by" in the first sentence.
Inside that, we have the contents of the report, which is that an Air Force investigator, also unnamed, stated that three bodies and three objects were recovered. The SA's source may have been the investigator, or an intermediary, the document isn't entirely clear on that. However, the long redacted portion of the first sentence after the word "by" would seem to indicate information beyond a mere name; perhaps a title, organization, or other contextual information. Such such information was redacted in the first paragraph, but the title "investigator" and the organization name "Air Force(s)" would seem to indicate that these two individuals are distinct. So that would give us five individuals: FBI Director, Guy Hottel, the Special Agent, his informant, and the Air Force investigator.
Everything in the document is essentially preceded by: The FBI acknowledges that SAC reports that a Special Agent says that an informant told him that an Air Force investigator stated... and it's all three years after the alleged events in New Mexico.
There's a word for this. It's "hearsay". In this case, it's four times removed from the only person who is actually named in the document: Guy Hottel at SAC. Putting hearsay in a document doesn't make the contents official; it's just acknowledgement on the part of FBI that people made statements-- in this case, some people made statements about what other people told them that other people told them that other people told them, with three of the individuals involved unnamed.
The important part of the document is the last paragraph-- what the Special Agent did as a result of the informant's statement: "no further investigation was attempted". In other words, it wasn't credible enough to even bother looking into.
The only question here is why Slashdot's editors, more than sixty years later, aren't as astute as that Special Agent.
...it's sitting in a cave somewhere while some scientists are still trying to figure out how to open the hatch.
Actually, I heard it's sitting at the bottom of a shaft at Cheyenne Mountain and the scientists are trying to decipher the symbols.
Besides, if you want proof of alien technology here on Earth, explain Velcro to me. ;-)
How come Slashdot never gets Slashdotted?
I would never say it's impossible, but I don't buy into "there are so many stars in the universe, odds support at least one of them having intelligent life". There are googillions of grains of sand, too, but large quantities of anything don't automatically force a higher probability of any grain of sand containing intelligent life.
If one of those sands of grain was known had evolved intelligent life though, it's a pretty good bet that there would be others as yet unknown grains of sand on that beach that also had intelligent life.
Ah - grains of sand, that is.
Which leaves me wondering if this is a distraction from attempts people are making to research what happened at Building 7 of the World Trade Center?
If the best way to build a craft that can travel through both outer space and all layers of a planetary atmosphere is to make it in the shape of a big disc, why have none of Earth's aerospace engineers ever built a craft using that shape?
Umm... They have. Some pictures
Just google "disk shaped aircraft".
Required reading for internet skeptics
I remember when I was taking my military classified information class: it went something like --
Put identity in the browser.
I used to agree with you 100%. After this released memo, though, I have a new theory: the aliens came to take videos for sale back home. The anal probes? Pr0n. The commander's name is !@$%^#&%, which roughly translates to "Cap'n Stabbin'." ;)
Put identity in the browser.
there are bigger morons than feynman, ridiculeing and calling impossible to things that we take as granted today
Read the quote again, you seem to be failing at comprehension as well as common sense..
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
I see Nature like a big photocopier. It doesn't just create one animal, it creates a multitude of them. Likewise for mountains, rivers, planets, stars. We used to think the sun was it. Then we realised all the other points were stars. Then we thought planets are rare. But as soon as we were able to just about detect them, we see lots of them. Then we thought maybe they aren't distributed in size and distance like in our system. But as our instruments got better we were able to detect similar distributions. So what's next? Detecting similar atmospheres -- nearly there. Then what? The core question is whether Earth is special. If Earth is just average, not too early, not too late, not too smart, not too dumb, then intelligent bipeds are out there, probably very similar. We are probably tracing their evolutionary footsteps, as a culture. Maybe they even gave us some religion, in a dumbed form that could be useful 5000 years ago to stop continual tribal slaughters. Who know what their rules are for interference. I'd guess it is: don't interfere; observe if you like; let them slug it out on their own. Perhaps though they have other rules. Maybe we have more potential but are still a bit too dumb and are trashing our planet (not global warming, that's dumb, I mean mercury in the oceans, and other pernicious chemical pollutants that sadly everyone has forgotten about in the AGW hype and big 'alternative' energy business.) So maybe they'll turn up and give us some extra time to sort out our shit. Yes space is unimaginably big -- maybe they are long lived (like 500 years), or maybe they send self assembling packages, or maybe they bend space. Maybe they reincarnate or download into their own descended bodies. Who knows that's possible. It would be dumb to believe they can't do stuff we can't imagine. Most people alive today on the planet can't imagine how electricity works. We've been around for maybe 200,000 years as tribes, and 10,000 as agriculturalists, and 5000 as empires, and 200 years as scientists, and what if they are just another 10,000 years ahead of us? That's 10,000 years as scientists versus our 200, and see what we've already done in just those 200 years. Of course, blind bad luck may have it that we've popped up in a deserted part of the galaxy. So that's why one can't just bet on it. But people do see stuff, and it only takes one in a thousand to be a real report, be it foo fighters, or some lady who stood with a group of people on a sunny day back in the 30s watching a metallic craft hovering and moving silently to and fro. If they arrived in our lifetime that would be very cool. Try not to run around in a panic, eh?
How did aliens travel across countless light years of space to reach our planet in a craft that was just 50' in diameter? Presumably a couple generations of the crew would have grown old and died on the voyage. That's a pretty small space to raise a family in.
Is it so hard to imagine their Nimitz is in space and the disks are just the F-16s ?
April 1. would be my guess :-)
That explains why they skipped the landing and went straight to blowing it up.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I just put 2 and 2 together, if some race was coming to earth to do something, without our knowledge, stopping Hitler during WW2 would have been prime...maybe they came to help the race destroy Hitler , because they knew we needed the help...and we never really saw them, but it almost matches the time the war ended....just a thought....that to me would be a real reason for an alien race to get involved with us
And documents are destroyed --all the time-- by the government.
Example: The torture tapes that the CIA recorded of their 'interrogation' sessions. Through FOIA we don't have the tapes, but we have the internal discussions the CIA had about how to destroy the tapes so as to 'protect' the officers doing the torturing.
Example2: the Department of Defense Inspector General did an investigation into NSA's failed Trailblazer program boondoggle; vast quantities of documents relating to that investigation have been destroyed. . . this is a problem for the defense team of Thomas Drake, an NSA officer who aided the DoD in it's investigation, because now he is being sued by the government for 'unauthorized retention of national defense information' and they are trying to prove it was part of his job to have this sort of information - but a lot of his internal emails have been erased.
the FBI went around spying on people they thought might be communists. the reports read pretty much like this. . . except instead of aliens it is "Subject went to the grocery store at 11pm. Subject came home. Subject met with Ms Z for 30 minutes after which Ms. Z left. Subject went to sleep"
"Subject is now pregnant and taking care of a small child. No further investigations made"
usually don't last very long in government jobs
slashdot editors put through stuff all the time that has ridiculous headlines. as long as it gets some hits and generates discussion, and is not completely nutso or bigoted, it can be considered worthy.
in the comment section the problems with wording etc usually get ironed out. in this case for example the vast majority of commenters point out exactly what you are saying.
and i would imagine that these people , who are not by any stretch 'fringe' (you can find their articles in major economics journals), would have some excuse or explanation of why it was OK...
imagine the US government simply contracted out the work?
OK, the contractor does some subcontracting as well...
and they subcontract to some company in Mexico or Bangladesh, which uses children as test pilots.
Look at hedge fund guy Jeffrey Epstein, he has tons of famous rich buddies and he is deeply into funding science research, he also had a harem of teenage prostitutes he abused. In his words, what he did was no worse than 'stealing a bagel' . This guy has put big money into some big named places, Harvard etc. Would a guy like that think twice about subcontracting a company that put kids in test aircraft?
Except that's not what is in TFA.
TFA says that an informant claimed there were aliens. The FBI says nothing other than some guy made this claim to them.
At least they got the font right this time.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
what if -they- want you to think that its what -they- want you to think?
and then, what if -they- want you think that -they- want you to think that it is what -they- want you to think?
and also, what if -they- want you to think that -they- want you to think that -they- want you to think that this is what -they- want you to think?
its a good question! Think about it!
Well, looks like Mulder & Scully don't have to worry about sneaking around to reveal the truth any more ...
The "Roswell Incident" (AKA the Crash at Corona) is a well-picked over story that goes something like this:
1) June 14, 1947, New Mexico rancher Brazel reports unexpected mechanical debris on his property.
He tells a UFO story to the local paper and police.
2) The cops call the Army, which sends over Major Marcel to collect the "alien artifacts."
3) The Army issues a press release about the "UFO."
4) Later, after more careful inspection, the debris is relabeled "as being a weather balloon and its "kite,""
The memo in question is from an FBI investigator Guy Hottel, written several years after this event. As wikipedia notes,
it isn't clear that this memo even refers to the "Roswell incident" at all.
Also, enjoy the retro-scifi techno-jargon contained in the memo:
"It is believed the [Army's radar located on the New Mexico base] interferes with the controlling mechanism of
the saucers."
At best, this memo is a report on hearsay. It is not direct evidence of a cover-up or even of recovered alien craft.
It is, in the neologisms of today, some government dude's blog post.
Don't thank me, Internet. I'm just doing my job.
When investigating file sharing, hackers and crackers, FBI agents are first class ignorant morons but when it is about UFOs their vague and ambiguous documents are proving out of any doubts that aliens exist and are visiting us on a regular basis !?
Wow. Your summary is a flat out lie.
It clearly states that this is a report of what someone reported. Someone, which is redacted, claimed to see something and the FBI wrote it down. That's what police forces do.
At no point does the FBI say what your summary said.
I find being offended by me offensive.
Well, we know for sure that at least one of them has a life form which most of its members consider intelligent.
The question is whether there's another one.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Ah, that makes a nice test: Ask someone from the military who should know about it. If he refuses to talk about it, it's real. :-)
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Well, the funny logic actually begins with claiming that there are no UFOs. All flying objects are easily identified?
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Maybe they wanted to protect their super-secret airplane inventions on test flights to be shot down by some stupid pilot who thinks he met some extraterrestrials?
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
The article is actually about "FBI releases disowned curio-artifact report verifying the continued rejection by 'the establishment' of the idea of UFOs at Roswell"
"Stratigraphically the origin of agriculture and thermonuclear destruction will appear essentially simultaneous" -- Lee
Well then, if I was in charge of the aliens I would do my research well and finding that both you and the person you respond to are right in certain sense I would announce myself by broadcasting over all available channels of communication - radio, TV, Internet. And I would do it in such way that my original message could not be tampered with by anyone. Being able to FLT (I believe space exploration is meaningless and impossible without FLT) this must be very easy to realize.
Not that I would personally advocate such a thing, but conservatives routinely do, so they won't mind people making helpful suggestions like this. Anyone have mister Beck's private home address? We can suggest that second amendment remedists go there.
You just did even more magical hand-waving. Thanks for proving my point.
I am scientifically inaccurate.
You, on the other hand, are a master of wit and entertainment: I find it vastly amusing that you're going to the trouble of finding so many of my old comments and writing insults under each of them, especially since these topics are so far down the page that nobody but us two are going to bother reading them.
No, scratch that. Beyond this post, I'm not going to bother reading any of the rest either.
Supporter of the +1 Over Dramatic mod option. In memory of apk.