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There Oughta Be a Standard: Laptop Power Supplies
Esther Schindler writes "Every mobile device you own has its own power supply and its own proprietary plug. There oughta be a better way, says Alfred Poor. Fortunately, he reports, the IEEE is coming to the rescue. "Their Universal Power Adapter for Mobile Devices (UPAMD) Working Group is developing a new standard that will not just address the needs of laptops and tablets, but will be intended to work with just about any electronics device that required between 10 and 240 watts of power," Poor writes. It's about darned time." If there's one thing I wish for all laptop power supplies, it's that they would license from Apple (or work around, patent-wise) the magnet attachment system that makes cable-tripping far less dangerous to man or beast, compared to a few years ago.
Just hope it doesn't end up costing more than a proprietary power supply, especially since you'll most likely only be able to use it with one device at a time.
The most important thing about this standard is that they need to use a plug resistant to damage. I have 2 laptops at home that work perfectly except the power connection has come loose. It is so frustrating!
$2.50 for a decade.
My wife used to knock over her iBook all the time. When we got a dog, it fell off the coffee table twice as often. We replaced it with a MacBook some time back, and it's only hit the ground once in like five years. With a kid having been added to the mix since then, that number would have been a lot worse without the magnetic plug.
Of course, the kid has come pretty close to doing some other things. He went through a phase of being fascinated by watching water pour over different things.
The CB App. What's your 20?
While I fully support a standard connector, I hope they realize that this will increase the electricity consumption of these devices, along with increasing the price of each charger.
With that being said, I significantly prefer convenience over efficiency, so I am looking forward to what they come up with.
So we've only been waiting for this for over a decade, lets just hope it doesn't go the way of a bunch of the other "universal" standards that never get adopted.
Also what kind of power bricks are we going to have if they have to handle 240w? I don't really want to carry around a 2lbs brink for my laptop that peaks at 20w of power usage.
That should read 10W to 130W, and 110V to 240V.
I will begrudgingly admit that the Apple magnetic power connection is vastly superior. But it's the only Apple feature I covet!
There is almost no way Apple could have a patent on a magnetically coupled charging cable. This technology is nothing new, and it isn't limited purely to the realm of computer power supplies. I have a fryer that has this safety feature....but....now that I think about it....the device is stark white with few buttons....
Also, that standard should license proprietary designs from a single company with money I conjure from thin air.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
How about ink cartdridges? Laptop batteries? etc.
The answer is the same - money. Those darned evil companies actually enjoy it when you buy their products, over and over again.
The magnetic connection would be nice, but only if they also specify proper cable strain relief. I've had a couple of those Apple power supply cables break open at that point.
While the idea of using an Apple-like magnetic connector is cool, there are a lot of issues:
(1) Some of us do work where having strong magnets laying around on a desk is a bad idea. (2) The Apple MagSafe adapters have been highly unreliable, and Apple won't license to third-parties, so you're stuck buying another Apple adapter which will then fail. (3) There can be reports of metal fragments and other magnetic particles sticking to the plug and causing problems.
The oughta be standardized battieries, too.
All of a sudden, you don't have to pay 80$ to replace their power cord, or purchase a new laptop since it's not worth buying the power cord. That idea is as crazy as...5 cent lithium watch batters not costing 4.99 each. Wishful thinking.
POE should be the standard... and that will stop those sneaky bastards from obsoleting ethernet jacks from our new fancy tablets and notebook PCs.
The reason for custom batteries is often to make them fit within the available space of a device while minimizing dead space. Apple has even gone so far as to mold their gel batteries inside the case. By making them non-removable they 1) save space by not needing a hard-plastic case to protect the cells, 2) minimize dead space by being able to shape the battery as needed and 3) can get longer battery life by being able to fit their custom-shaped batteries into a larger percentage of the device. I'm not an Apple fan-boy, but I thought this was pretty cool.
If there's one thing I wish for all laptop power supplies, it's that they would license from Apple (or work around, patent-wise) the magnet attachment system that makes cable--tripping far less dangerous to man or beast,
Or you could, you know, not put your power cable in an area that people walk through...
If there's one thing I wish for all laptop power supplies, it's that they would license from Apple (or work around, patent-wise) the magnet attachment system that makes cable--tripping far less dangerous to man or beast, compared to a few years ago.
Also just wear and tear on the connector. I've seen laptops become unusable just because the power socket is stupidly designed and ends up getting loose. Even some sort of less-patented snap design or something would be better. Van der Waals force, I dunno. Hell, even just something that isn't a cylinder that goes over a small bendable pin, maybe something totally solid like the Apple one only it goes in further, that would be nice...
Sendou Wave Kick!!
Please also standardize Batteries for these devices. Either that or I'd like them to have the ability to update the cells inside easily (non sealed)
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
If there's one thing I wish for all laptop power supplies, it's that they would license from Apple (or work around, patent-wise) the magnet attachment system that makes cable--tripping far less dangerous to man or beast, compared to a few years ago.
The connector is called MagSafe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MagSafe).
As someone with an EE background, what I've not understood with their design is how they compensate for a lack of wiping action on the contacts. Reliable contacts require wiping between the two surfaces to ensure low resistance; non-wiping contacts have inherently shorter lifetime. Exposed, non-wiping contacts would be expected to fail quite quickly.
Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
What happened to the days of old when some laptops came with built in power supplies and you just needed an AC cable? I liked those.
I would really appreciate it if ALL portable devices could standardize on a charger cable. USB has 3 or 4 cable types, can't we have something similar for these other devices? Nintendo can't even come up with a charger cable for their portable systems that works across all of them, and it's their own devices.
It's one thing to have a standard it's another thing to have companies actually use the standard! Look at USB power for phones, pretty much all modern phones can connect to a USB port and get power there and many even have USB plugs now but many (looking at you Apple) however still choose to force people to use their of proprietary connector. It's in many companies interest because they think they can make a buck from it.
If this were software, people would write:
"You're the same kind of person that railed against the circular saw in the first place, I bet. Normal saws were plenty good enough and inventing new things was pointless, eh?
Tools change all the time for ALL professions and crafts. It just so happens that programming is new and as such hasn't been solidified yet.
Feel free not to use anything we make. It won't hurt our feelings."
Oh wait, they do. Confusion and customization in hardware = bad, re-inventing the wheel every day in software = good. I see. Just another example of the arrogant hypocrisy of the spoiled software brats.
It worked for headphones back in the day. Three different sizes, depending on the type of device.(2.5mm, 3.5mm, 6.36mm).
Most companies already have an internal system like that anyway, where you have one size for normal laptops and a smaller one for low-power devices like netbooks.
I really liked the MagSafe(tm) concept when Apple first came out with it, but Apple has been such a fucking prick about the damned things. They don't offer any significant range of options to use the plug, and they actively stymie all attempts of the marketplace to fill that void. Want a piggy-back battery to supply power to the laptop? Apple doesn't make one. Want to tie in with a docking station? Apple doesn't make one. At first, when asked about third party adoption of the plugs, they were "oh, well, I guess they'll start coming out any time now." Then it was "oh, well, guess nobody's trying to license them." Then when manufacturers tried to license them, they were refused. So one manufacturer decided to eat the waste and rely on the doctrine of First Sale. They BOUGHT Apple(tm) adapters, chopped off the white wallwart transformer, and soldered the MagSafe(tm) pigtail to their own battery packs, and they were still attacked by Apple's lawyers. WTF, Apple. People have varying needs to make use of your products. Step up to offer the solution, or get out of the way.
[
Why would i use this 'standard'?
I can't charge a premium for replacement cables that use my patented connector.
500% profit even on a small item is nothing to throw away.
I have bought several low cost universal laptop PSUs at Carrefour, for use with diverse pieces of equipment. So, this seems to be a solution looking for a problem really.
...and this is why we need patent reform, but in the form of accepting fewer patents and for a shorter period of time.
Look, it isn't as though Apple has gained nothing from their "innovation" (assuming they actually invented it) of this magnetic plug. But having this as yet another thing which only works on Macs, which everyone else is legally forbidden from adding with or without Apple's help...
I want to make a case for how harmful this is to inventors, or even everyday coders. It's pretty much impossible now to do any software development without infringing on patents, and even if you somehow manage not to, it's impossible to know without your own legal army to research it.
Instead, I'm going to make a simpler, easier case: I want a laptop which is not a Mac (never had Linux run well on a Mac, I don't like OS X, and I don't really want to pay the premium), but I want it to have that kind of power cord. Call it a "sense of entitlement" if you like, but this isn't just me being cheap -- I want that power cord, with a machine that runs Linux and Win7 reasonably well, and there's no technological reason I can't have that, not even anything like DRM in the way, just raw legal force.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
It can be round, like a barrel connector, or just rectangular and have the pins symmetrical. Like having several positive pins on the inside, and ground pins on the outside. Make communications pins bi-directional.
USB should have done this. I'm always needing to plug in a USB connector under a table or somewhere it's too dark. Also, as I get older, my eyes don't focus close in as well as they used to. USB also shouldn't be the same width as an RJ45.
All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
Make it symmetrical, and make them test it with a sight impaired person. USB dropped the ball on this big-time.
All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
I get it, it is a clever idea and just about everyone who owns an apple laptop has to bring up how they would be willing to pay an extra $100 just for the magnet plug.
I don't like it, I have tripped over cables and such but its no big deal, usually the cable pops right out. I have even had computers come to me that had the power socket almost ripped out from tripping stories. But it has never happened to me, what has happened to me is the constant unplugging of the magnetic plug when working on macs. Multiple models and always the same annoyance of any little tug from moving the laptop unplugging it.
I know its nothing to worry about, apple would never let people work around their patents to develop a similar on for pc's but man would that suck if the new standard was those weak little magnetic chargers.
ok rant complete
Intel has standardized all sorts of aspects of the PC architecture, from the motherboard form factor, the USB standards, PCI Express, and all sorts of stuff. Why not a standard power supply?
Intel and Microsoft could probably team up right now, and give a reference design to Foxconn to mass produce.
Didn't they try to do this same thing with phone chargers?
Last I checked, nope, still five million kinds.
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
Exact same concept. two magnetic plates between the electrical contacts. if there is a patent for that, I'm sure they would license it for cheaper than apple:)
Apparently leaving a typical wallwart in the plug when not charging anything still wastes power and heats it up. In fact I heard unused but plugged-in wallwarts are wasting many many times as much power as all the usage of them to recharge devices.
It should be possible to detect that no device is plugged in and somehow disconnect so the power usage is zero. I'm sure the reason this is not done is because it may require a relay or other expensive bit of hardware. It might help if any kind of standard required this.
The problem is that each generation of Laptop/Tablet is getting thinner or adding a new shape. Sure the Think Pad design has changed only slightly over the last 15 or so years. But other models are shaped very differently. Just think of a MacBook Air with a battery sticking out of it, like it was one of those Hot Rod cars that have the exposed engine that shoots out flames.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I'd love to have a standard car. It really sucks that my gas tank hole is triangular and slightly smaller than most gas stations' tube-shaped nozzles.
Maybe not for laptops or higher draw items ... but I've pretty much used USB charging as a criteria for most of my purchases over the last few years that need to be charged.
If the device has something proprietary, or even something common (but not USB), I'll keep looking for a different product.
My cell phones, iPods, GPS, and quite a few others can all charge from the same basic USB connection. Makes my life a lot simpler when I'm traveling with most of my electronics.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Exposed, non-wiping contacts would be expected to fail quite quickly.
Define quickly. If the value is greater than 5 years when used on a laptop it probably doesn't matter much.
I broke my cord, bought another expensive one. It had the adapter end. Kept coming out, and stopped working after a year or so, and bought another that will hopefully last longer. They avoid standards to get money from you. Hopefully they'll make a standard and then companies will follow it.
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free
Just make it USB powered and then you can connect it to your laptop's USB ports... no more cables!
This is absolutely stupid. Why would I carry around the size and weight of a 120W charger if my laptop only needs a 50W charger? Power bricks scale with output power both due to the ratings of the components inside and thermal requirements.
The IEEE will probably introduce a really good standard for power bricks that will be patent-free, universal and adaptable to different models and country power connector standards. This is exactly why electronics manufacturers won't adopt it. Think HP or Samsung doesn't like charging you $100 for a replacement charging adapter? You think that Dell doesn't just absolutely love it when they discontinue manufacturing on a particular laptop model and their once-device-only charge plugs become unavailable, forcing you to buy a new laptop if you ever want to see power again? The IEEE will draft the standard and release it to manufacturers, and the manufacturers will go "Whelp, that's really nice guys, but you see our laptops are speshul and wouldn't work with that standard, so no thank you."
I'll be honest, we're throwing science against the wall to see what sticks. -Cave Johnson
I've got a pile of perfectly good high resolution, low power consuming displays that are pretty much junk because their LVDS connectors are all incompatible with anything else with LVDS output. Even if the connectors happen to be the same, the pin configuration is still not the same. Even with an embedded (not proprietary) VIA motherboard the LVDS connectors don't match anything.
Unless I'm missing some huge LVDS information resource in all of my searching, it's impossible to make use without going through data sheets and getting a custom cable made.
It would be stupid if the standard would exclude 50W power supply options, but there's no reason it should. It's certainly possible to standardize a range of different sizes and power levels, and provide a mechanism where an underpowered brick would simply refuse to work, instead of overheating.
So its long past time to use the standard that is inplace.
We were primarily a Dell shop for a long time. Even with laptops from the same manufacturer they often used completely different power supplies, - meaning that if you lost or damaged one, or even left it at home you had to hope the one or two other people in the office that had laptops with the same PS could borrow you a spare until yours was replaced. Major PITA.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Even with one end loosely tethered, isn't a cord stretched across any walkway an inherently dangerous thing? If not to the product, then to the person doing the tripping?
Now, my viewpoint may be biased, because I tend to use a desk when I do my work, not a coffee bar, but I've had lots of problems with these magsafe connectors; they don't stay plugged in, or they appear plugged in, but are not actually 'all' the way in. Pulling the mouse cord when it gets stuck dislodges it, rotating the monitor a little bit dislodges them, throwing a wayward glance in their direction freakin' dislodges them.
Besides that, shouldn't we already be using USB for this purpose? It handles up to 240v, and while the connectors are various shapes, it's ubiquitous and would require only standardization on the hardware end, and nothing on the software side.
Quite a few modern chargers are active and adapt their power draw. Many are completely cool to the touch when nothing is connected. Generally, these chargers are also lighter, because they do not have the massive iron windlings of traditional transformers.
WTF?
http://www.acetonestudio.com
Sorry but I have a hard time believing this will work. Manufacturers haven't even come up with their own in house standardized power supplies let alone cross company ones. It seems to be too lucrative to force consumers to purchase obscenely overpriced replacements/adapters. Don't get me wrong, I wish it could work. As someone else mentioned it would make renewable (solar/motion) charging much more feasible & should bring down costs. But its going to take several major manufacturers going for it and some serious consumer demand.
I just had to order a new power brick from Asus. They have three models to cover all their laptops: a "standard" 90W, a "notebook" 40W, and a "super" 120W. Which seems reasonable - a power brick that supplies 120W is going to be very inefficient under a 40W load. I can't imagine how inefficient a 240W one would be under 20W of load. Plus, the plug size needed for that much power would possibly be a size concern on a tiny netbook or tablet. And what happens when someone inevitably makes a laptop that draws more than 240W?
I think a better solution would be having a small range of standards, designed for different power needs. Have a standard connector that scales depending on the power it provides - it would be 5mm for 100W, 7mm for 200W, etc. If possible, make the higher-power plugs fit into the lower-power sockets, so you can charge your 70W netbook off your 120W laptop charger. Should be relatively simple.
Next thing you know, you buy an alternative power supply from a third party vendor and POOF, company A tells you that you warranty has been voided.
So,,,,you'll still have to buy the original part from your vendor like HP, IBM and other and they'll surely get together to fix their prices so you cant buy an HP latop with an IBM power supply at a lower cost.
Wont happen and if you do,,,,well no more warranty on your machines
Laptop. FTFY
Well just have more powerful magnets then.
Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
I'll just buy a competing brand.
Which has more than likely done exactly the same thing. Remember when all major printer manufacturers decided not to include a USB cable? Or when all major U.S. mobile phone carriers doubled the SMS rate from 10 to 20 cents?
USB... "Universal Serial Bus" . . . so, "Universal means, WHAT exactly? Given that there are like, 8 or 9 different connectors that I can think of off the top of my head (never mind the plethora of devices that ship without working drivers for all but one preferred OS platform.)
Standard my ass.
Whatever they come up with - will be cool in concept, and will SUCK in implementation.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Apple's patent in this area is actually fairly simple to work around. It provides good coverage for Apple's design, but there is a lot of room for modifications.
Laws affecting technology will always be bad until enough techies become lawyers.
Wall warts were a plague on humanity before laptops existed. They're also just one of many things that should have been standardized long ago but weren't, for no other reason than fear of losing a competitive advantage (via what we know as "lock-in" in particular).
Conversely, there are de facto standards that never should have seen the light of day, like the Windows Registry.
Even the current MagSafe design is somewhat lacking. I've tried to use it while laying down and the connector constantly disconnects. Stronger magnets please!
-]Phreak Out[-
if you follow all the gadget blogs the future is in wireless charging pads
sure the efficiency is down to about 3-15%, but there's one less wire! therefore it's better.
12V by 4.5A ought to be enough for everyone!
Yes yes! And while we're at it, why not just write on paper instead of a laptop word processor?
Your analogy fails. The "Gas Pump" in this case is already standardized. That is your wall socket and every laptop sold in America has the same connection for that.
I have a Google Nexus One phone, made by HTC. It takes a "standard" micro-USB plug, which is used by many digital cameras and other devices.
In fact, a couple of days ago I charged it using the wall-wart that came with my Logitech Harmony 700 remote control.
It's operating just fine; except that every time I get a tweet my TiVo tunes to ESPN 8, The Ocho.
Your blender has even higher voltages and was made by low-cost leaders turning out pure crap. So was every other blender clock for the last 50 years or so. I don't understand why these would be any different.
Also, the power supplies would continue to be made by the same people already making them, they would just be marketed under another brand. It's not like power supplies are currently made by a big-name company in Colorado -- they are already a near-commodity item made overseas by whoever puts in the lowest bid.
Either you're a time traveller who just arrived from 1990, or you're ridiculously ignorant; either way, you should be informing yourself rather than suggesting "improvements".
Practically all wall warts these days, and ALL laptop PSUs, are switching power supplies. They only draw leakage current when unloaded.
Owning a MacBook for 2 years put me in the habit of grabbing the plug every time I picked up/moved the laptop because of how overly easy it is to unplug, can't even begin to count how many times it unplugged in annoying ways.
Now back on a non-Apple machine I still grab at the plug when picking the machine up out of now deep rooted into my subconscious fear of it unplugging, thank you Apple!
There was a classic article from back in 1984 comparing the relative benefits and costs of getting a Macintosh or a Cairn Terrier. A cairn terrier is a dog like Toto. Costs less than the Mac, probably has less memory, can't do astrophysics, does a much better job of playing fetch, good with kids.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Afaict the issue of wall warts drawing power when not in use improved considerablly with the move from designs using a transformer as the first stay to switched mode designs (thse do still contain a transformer for isolation reasons but it's much smaller and runs at much higher frequencies). Small cheap mains transformers are notoriously lossy.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
I want a magsafe universal power adapter that has an optical thunderbolt cable running down it. Dock? Who needs a dock? Attach mag adapter and your desktop power adapter then has the ports that you need in it. Can still be cheaper/smaller ones used for travel w/o the ports/thunderbolt.
And, I think overall, if companies didn't spend the money designing and stocking multiple power supplies they'd make more money than what they are doing now selling expensive power adapters. Users would also be happier, thus more likely to buy. Vendor might even get away with NOT including a power adapter in the box. Doubly so if it works on more than just laptops like the claim.
Overall better for the world as well waste less resources/store less junk because power supplies can outlive the gadget they are hooked to. Also, companies can be encouraged to make better more efficient power supplies. Right now you have to take what you get.
Apple at least keeps cables and power adapters around a long time, but it's even better if EVERYONE used the same cables/power supply.
The MagSafe connector is neat enough, but they use exactly the same connector on all of the laptop power supplies.
Makes it all too easy to connect a low capacity adapter to a high capacity laptop. Oh, I don't mind that I can plug a low-end laptop into the supply for my MacBook Pro 17 - that's fine. It's the fact that I can do the reverse that worries me - I suspect that drawing the power for a fully-loaded MBP 17 from a supply rated for half that might result in it getting quite warm, and possibly melting/catching fire.
Or have they thought of that?
My MacBook wasn't charging, and I found the charger wasn't well-seated.
Hmm, that alignment ring is loose.
Gee, it's bent out of shape, too;maybe I can straighten it with a pair of needle nose.
Wait a minute, it's a *STAPLE*.
It ran fine until the charge ran down.
Fifteen years ago, I would have just unsoldered the fuse from the motherboard and placed it, but I can't find any information on doing that these days :(
hawk
if those devices just plugged into the wall socket to charge directly from A/C?
Slashdot needs a -1 whoosh.
The idea is to standardize the PLUG. Then all you need to do is find a charger that matches the voltage (most laptops use one of 4 voltages) and exceeds the wattage rating and you're home free.
is my inductive charger? Screw adapters, the Palm Pre had it and nobody seems to be following suit.
I was once shown a laptop that had its own built-in power supply. It could accept 50 or 60 Hz AC at 100-240 V, or DC anywhere from 6-30 V. A standard cord (like the one running from your brick to the wall) would plug it in, or you could use any cord that would fit. Might not be as light-weight as a modern laptop would be, but it sure was convenient. It booted up just fine after being in storage over a decade, too.
If this passes, it'll totally erode the business model of a lot of companies that make replacement AC adapters. Look at eBay and type in "Dell Power Adapter" and you'll see that there are tons of "knock offs" out there. On second thought, maybe this would be a good thing for the economy since most of the knock offs come from China. Oh wait, so do the real ones. Oh well!
the apple power-cord magnet isnt a patent. // idiots
japanese hot-water makers had them for ages already
The problems with standardizing is that it kills innovation. Maybe once we have a close to perfect power supply, then we should look to standardize. Meanwhile, let's keep the innovations coming.