Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: What's Your Beef With Windows Phone?
First time accepted submitter occasional_dabbler writes "Reviews by 'commentators' such as this one predict certain doom for both Nokia and Microsoft on the basis of the OS being a failure, yet whenever the Lumia handsets are reviewed in the mainstream press they are often highly praised. Windows phone is an immature OS, certainly, but it does pretty much everything you need in a smartphone, is getting better with each update and it is beautiful. I have a Lumia 800, and now I'm used to how it and the WP OS works I find it a painful process to go back to an Android or iPhone for some obscure app not yet supported on WP. WP gave me the same feeling I got when I bought my first iBook, fired up OS X 10.1 and realized I had just been shifted up a decade. So why so serious? What do Slashdotters who have really tried WP think of it?"
All those f*ckin' tiles drive me nuts! It's like a kindergardener's art project!
So there is irrational rabid hate for it.
When Nokia effectively became a Microsoft subsidiary, they killed off all their linux-based cell phones. If that's not enough to enrage an average slashdotter, I don't know what is.
It's about as bad as when automotive bought up streetcar lines to destroy them and replace them with buses.
We can't keep waiting for 'the next version' of windows phone to fix the problems with the OS. It needs the multitasking fixed on major apps, it needs the scrolling bugs fixed. It needs a lot of minor things fixed that have been problems for years now.
People like a phone OS for what it can do, not what the next update promises to bring. Then there is the issue of Apollo even being able to run on current hardware.
Blog
I hate everything about Metro, save the typography.
What's my beef? My beef?
I'm a vegetarian you insensitive clod! I only eat apples and blackberrys.
You have to connect to the computer to get updates.
You can't write native code for it. (if I write an app in c++ easily portable to iphone and android, but it will never be portable to windows phone.)
I just know that between Android and iPhone, I've got enough alternatives for my next phone choice to be easy (I'd likely be satisfied with either, and would just try to see which is better between the two). Microsoft hasn't made anything in the last 12 years that I'd want to buy instead of their competition, so I suppose just their reputation is enough to keep me away unless I hear they've come up with something truly revolutionary.
I've learned that they're worthless, so I don't read AC comments anymore.
Not compatible with iTunes App Store content.
How about the fact that getting a Windows phone to work with an exchange server is slightly more painful than shooting yourself in the dick?
A small business that is using a self signed certificate might as well cross all windows phones off of their purchasing options forever. And don't tell me, "Oh they should just get a real certificate." because YOU don't get to make that call and neither do I. The client does and they say no.
iPhone? No Problem. Android? No Problem. Windows Phone? Export certificate from site, email it to yahoo or gmail account FROM a yahoo or gmail account because outlook/exchange refuses to allow you to mail a cert, then import it, reboot the phone, and HOPE that it works. I just got finished dealing with one that didn't work. We renewed the cert, and now the thing is just shitboxed. Can't get it to accept the new cert at all.
How the fuck hard is it to add a "Accept this certificate anyways?" option...
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
Slashdotters are about evenly divided between those who think Windows Phone is rubbish compared to an iPhone, and those who think Windows Phone is rubbish compared to an Android phone. Microsoft has to convince these people that Windows Phone is better than their favourite phone, and that Microsoft is nearly as cool as their favourite company.
If you start the description of a cosumer os with 'immature' you can bet your behind that consumer wont come close to it. Aside from the fact that microsoft lacks any cool and is generally seen as bully under Ballmer.
Completely irrational, but after having a Windows Mobile phone, I don't want a Windows Phone. I just can't stand the thought of going back to Microsoft for my phone.
x86, oh yes, I'm pro.
I really like mine. My life runs through an Exchange Server, so I picked the Windows Phone for it's Exchange integration. And I gotta say, it's really better than I thought a "smart" phone would be. It's easy to use, I haven't run into any bugs or crashes at all. It's definitely much more streamlined than the Android or Apple phones. Both of those are a real mess of all kinds of different features thrown together with different apps. The Windows Phone does everything I need it to do without any extra "apps", making a really easy-to-use experience. Of course, you can get "apps", but if you're not using it as a toy, there's not much that most business-y people would need that it doesn't come with already. About the only thing I dislike about it is the integration with Bing. Google's local stuff isn't up to date, but Bing's is far worse.
I don't respond to AC's.
So were the junky 4-color IBM PCs that went "beep" instead of producing real music. And the godawful Windows 3.1 of the 90s. Mainstream press opinions mean little to me (especially since they are often bribed to give glowing reviews).
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
I don't care what the OS is but I do care what apps are available. Microsoft is in the unusual position of having a hard time attracting developers to their platform.
As an occasional mobile developer, I have limited resources and develop for where the people are. If I want an audience willing to pay, I would target iOS (never have so far). If I want a broad audience, Android. There really isn't anything compelling about Windows Phone to me.
Microsoft has billions in the bank and I think they could turn this around if they worked out a deal with the carriers to give customers a $10 credit each month for the app store. They could easily afford it because there just aren't that many Windows Phones out there. If those few owners became big spenders though, that could trigger more development on the platform which in turn might attract more users.
the windows phone is that mainstream press exist for the food and liquor at the release events whereas commentators arent getting either. Anyone willing to purchase something like this uses the same mentality as they do when ingesting something from the film industry. avoid the major critics and hit rotten tomatoes or check the reviews somewhere obscure.
you could argue that where apple and google have succeeded is in UI and such. if E3 is any indication, its the fact they extend a few free pints of stella and some extra steak to the bloggers as well.
Good people go to bed earlier.
Because freetards can't acknowledge anything that Microsoft does as good. That's why outside of freetard commentators the phones get good reviews.
Err no, Linux based phones do more for less cash and iphones own the 'oh! Shiny!' market.
There really isn't a place for windows phones in the market, that's why they are doing badly.
Not my list, but here's 121 reasons why you don't want Windows Phone 7.5
There are no atheists when recovering from tape backup.
I remember Maemo 5 met with good reviews also. All three fellow N900 users out there, raise your hands...
Program Intellivision!
I used to have a Windows Mobile 6.5 phone, and it was gorgeous (HTC Pure). On the other hand, it also took over ten seconds to answer a call because it was so slow and was even slower if you tried to multitask. Granted, Windows Phone OS has vastly improved since then; however, I still have that bad memory in my head.
"Good, Fast, Cheap: Pick any two" -- RFC 1925
There are several aspects of WP7 that I want to like, and on the surface should provide a better experience than other phone, but none of these things live up to their promise. The hubs are a good example.
From a user interaction point of view, I think the hubs are a really cool idea, and a better way to organize data. But the concept falls flat because there is no way for third parties to create hub "plugins" for other data sources, so you are limited into the ones that come with the system. Because, of this you end up accessing some people/music/pictures/etc through the hubs, and some through individual apps, which really isn't any more convenient than just doing it all through individual apps.
just because of past experience with both on other platforms.
I want a device that I own and can control what goes on it, what it does, and when it updates. Apple all but openly admits it is a walled-garden, so that's out. Microsoft doesn't control the software available on it's OS' as much, but it still flexes it's muscles too much w.r.t. the standards it uses.
Android isn't perfect, it isn't the best. But if I get a phone that runs android I know I have some measure of control of my device as a consumer. I have no such promises from Apple or Microsoft.
I swear they give me mod points to shut me up.
Despite it's outdated UI, I was a fan of Windows Mobile 6.x because of its openness and the resulting flexibility. In locking down WP7 so much, Windows Phone is essentially a "Microsoft iPhone". If I wanted an iPhone, I would just buy an iPhone.
Redesigning the UI to be touch friendly, while keeping the openness of Windows mobile 6.x would have kept me interested.
Android sucks in its own special ways, but at least I have the flexibility to mold it into the tool that I want.
I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
How many mobile OSes really need to exist? What is the competitive advantage of Windows Phone over Android? What compelling reasons are there for consumers and phone manufacturers leave their existing ecosystems for Windows Phone? Not having any specific problems is not the same as having a legitimate reason to exist.
Since I run both Windows and Linux at home my beef is the fact that their phone interface is spreading to my desktop. It's the same basic problem I have with Gnome 3 and Unity on Ubuntu which made me switch to Xubuntu. I want a Desktop interface for my desktop systems. If I was looking for a tablet or phone interface I'd be happy as a clam right now.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
Other than the fact that iOS/Android have got a large, possibly majority chunk of the final smartphone market share (including future adopters) already wrapped up, and the fact that the 3 OSs are presently App-incompatible (any predictions for when cross-phone-platform convergence will come? not soon, I'd say) there's nothing to hate in Windows phone.
Good hardware, nicely done OS, just a shortage of people using it and writing apps for it - I think the app problem isn't nearly as big as the fact that most people who are making a smartphone decision at this point will likely follow in their friends' footsteps, rather than making their own objective decision.
Appropriate recent Dilbert.
I highly doubt the freetards are why everyone buys Android and iPhone. They make up a tiny fraction of cell phone users.
No, my dear troll, the real answer is that no one wants to carry Windows about with them.
Windows isn't for hipsters. Windows isn't for nerds. Windows isn't for grandma.
Windows is for losers, in all of it's incarnations.
That's why Windows has such soft sales figures.
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
I was strongly considering moving toward a new Windows based mobile as I have less than a year left on my current plan, and then for reasons unknown they took all my apps away.
So my friends with iPhones of ancient origin or Android phones with an open way of installing software have their apps and I am punished for being nothing more than a user of Windows Mobile 6.5.
Never again Microsoft, this is Games for Windows Live all over again, clearly you don't know what you're doing.
Gosh. Next you'll be saying they have their own search engine, and not merely throwing up some script kiddie wrapper around Googles.
... in fact, I don't give a rat's ass about the Windows phone. Too bad about Nokia, though. They should have done something with Linux and Qt.
I love my Windows Phone (HTC Arrive). For comparison, I have a personal Android tablet and an iPad I use at work, so I've got a little bit of experience with all of the operating systems. I regularly use my phone for watching Netflix, web-browsing, quick email responses, minor document editing, and minor sys admin work. I think the WP OS is very intuitive and I love that SkyDrive is native. I think the default web browser interface could probably be refined a bit, but I fully intend to stick with this OS as long as Microsoft supports it. My only complaint is that I would like the ability to write Apps for myself without having to go through the WP Marketplace.
I agree - it looks and works great. To me, it feels like a phone OS designed with the small form-factor in mind, rather than a porting of a "desktop icon" metaphor to a smaller screen. The home screen is designed to expose a number of things you want to do/see without requiring to navigate anywhere or launch an app. Simple things like the way the buttons feel and animate make the experience better. I find it both more enjoyable to use than Android and iPhone, and also snappier (using a Samsung phone, haven't used the Nokia). The main thing it lacks at the moment is the breadth of apps, but it's getting there. My normal phone is Android, but when I'm due for an update I'm likely to switch to WP.
The thing I liked about my iPhone and love about my Android is how I can organize my apps the way that I want to. Everything app laid out sequentially? Sure. Similar apps clustered together on different screens? Sure. A deep hierarchy where everything is nested in folders on a single screen? No prob.
WP7 Metro is decent-looking, but just too restrictive. Let me put stuff in folders!
FWIW, I have the same beef with Windows 8.
Slashdot: come for the pedantry, stay for the condescension.
I have an LG Quantum. I like it. At the time, it was the only smartphone AT&T had that had a side-slide keyboard(sorry, the Pre keyboard is balls) other than the Pantech Crossfire, which is woefully underpowered and has an awfully small screen, despite looking pretty cool.
I like mine, I like the OS mostly, but I don't like the downgrade in features from WM6 to WP7. You have to pay for an RDP app, you cannot simply change things like backgrounds, custom ringtones, use internet sharing/tethering, etc, and the store lacks good filtering features(not that WM6 had a store, but you could just search the web, download the cab, and install it with no bullshit).
For normal day to day use, it's probably the slickest out there. The desktop, livetiles, the integration with most social media, etc is pretty cool and the interface is very intuitive while being minimalistic and uncluttered.
All in all, I'm happy with my purchase, but I keep my WM6 phone around for when I want to switch sims and load up WMWifiRouter. I would have went with a different smartphone(Android, iOS, WebOS, etc) if any of them were offered through AT&T with a hardware sideslide keyboard, weren't underpowered, and had a moderately sized or bigger screen.
i've had an iphone since 2009
i have thousands of apps for it, even though i don't use them all
there are some really crazy apps for iOS that do things no one imagined a few years ago
iOS is well past cool upgrades and is now on the improving usability every year cycle
Windows Phone is way behind
a lot less app support
its not cheaper
Why switch? what is it going to do better than iOS?
The WP7 OS is decent enough to use. But that's not the total phone experience.
To total phone experience varies a lot from person to person. But people want choice and the WP7 app store is still relatively barren compared to the mountains of refuse in google play or itunes. It's true you don't need the vast majority of the stuff in the competing stores (or even most of what's on the WP7 store) but why pick and OS without whatever app you like or that will likely miss out on it.
WP7 is a dead man walking. You know it. Nokia knows it. Everyone knows. WP8 is the real prize. But if I need a phone today I'm not waiting around. Especially since we have no idea if WP8 will actually be any good to use. And once I get into the non MS ecosystem I'd need to invest money to switch, and need to wait for a contract to expire.
There's no premium WP hardware. There's mid range, and low to mid range. And calling the 900 mid range in an era of quad core phones is being generous. All else being equal if the best phone on the market is a Galaxy SIII why would I buy a single core competitor? Especially if I have 700 or 800 dollars to spend on a phone.
People still think it's 1995 and that windows is a bug riddles mess. Because if don't know how to take care of your computer it will be a trainwreck and you don't learn you live with outdated biases.
If you want simple easy to understand you get an iphone. You pay a premium for a degree of uniformity. If you want a low end smartphone or a high end smartphone you buy android. If you know how to hack your phone and don't mind flashing roms and so on, you get an android. Where does that leave MS in the marketplace? If you have to wait for a *carrier* to approve an update to your phone then you aren't a happy customer. If you don't understand technology an iPhone doesn't have that problem, if you understand how to install a nightly ROM build android phones are at least better than waiting on the carriers. With a windows phone you're stuck waiting on the carrier, which is simply unacceptable, unless you pay the 99 dollar developer licence.
Microsoft is late to this party. Very late. Unless they can pull a magic Xbox integration plan or something awesome that ties into the desktop (your phone can remote desktop right microsoft? Right? ugh...) they have a hard time asking users to switch. My calendaring is all through google now, so I'd have to move that over. I have invested however much money in google's app store for apps I can't easily port over. There aren't any 'killer apps' for WP7 exclusively.
There's a viable strategy there. Microsoft just isn't executing, and they can't rely on momentum to keep them going. That however, could change, and especially in the business environment integration with their corporate products could really help. b
I have been using Windows Phone for a good 6 months now, and I really do feel backward when using people's iPhones. That being said iPhone has the ecosystem that I am envious of, if a friend is playing a game, very often WP doesn't have it (yet.) So that's very frustrating. I think a lot of people just go with the platforms their friends have, the tile system is a bit jarring for those not familiar with it, and it could be improved a lot (sometimes Metro is just -too- simplistic.) However, once you are used to the system, it's a lot more intuitive than iOS. People complain about the tiles, but when using friends phones they have a sea of icons that honestly just hurt my eyes to scroll through. A lot of people think the WP list system is the wrong approach, but tapping on a letter jumps you to the program you want.
WP's biggest flaw is that it is so late to the game, if you walk into an AT&T store, expect to have an iPhone pushed on you, if you walk into a Verizon store, expect an Android device to be pushed on you. Microsoft made the mistake of not getting in bed with one of the major carriers. Google & Verizon/Apple & AT&T have a lot of power over the purchases of potential WP users. I've walked into Verizon stores with the -only- WP device being treated like the step child, and AT&T stores have had WP booths with the phones all powered down. It's pathetic. Old habits die hard. I do think all 3 of the OSes are very good in their own right, but why WP is lagging sort of baffles me, I'd expect it to at least have some interest among youth looking for Xbox Live integration. The Lumia phones are gorgeous, but honestly on the wrong carrier....Verizon should have been the Lumia's focus. AT&T's is pretty saturated with iPhone. Microsoft shot themselves in the foot with their half-assed Kin device on Verizon.
So, my basic answer is carriers, carriers, carriers, even more so than developers.
We like progress.
/ - Nothing follows - /
Help stamp out iliturcy.
10 years is immature?
I have non-technical friends that love their windows phones. They find the features handy and don't care about the phone being locked down.
I know of no tech savy users that are fans of the phone. This is because their (our?) priorities are different.
Windows phone is not targeted at your average slashdot reader. Infact, most phones are not targeted at your average slashdot reader. This makes sense, as we're a minority of the population and these companies are in the business of making money.
Microsoft copies Apple's idea and makes it difficult to develop apps for your own use.
Why should I pay $99 / year if all the apps that I develop are for own and family use?
I would rather buy a nexus device in the absence of a similar option from Microsoft.
Adverts as stories? You mean traditional Microsoft trolling has to be constant here at /.? Your comment fits the usual narrative pretty nicely, at least.
I carried a Windows Phone in place of my usual Android device for about 45 days at the start of the year to understand what the experience was like. My take away is that while it is a serviceable OS, it still has many of the shortcoming that the other smartphone platforms have grown out of. Also, it occasionally errs on the side of "pretty graphic design" over usability. I wrote up a full article on my experience here: https://plus.google.com/100566622327534003774/posts/RyT3Ajwd1GX
Quite honestly, I'm fine with most of the WP7 UI. What bothers me is that they set their hardware specs a few years ago. Now all the new phones are stuck with hardware that is way behind the times (i.e. 480 x 800 resolution and single core processors).
Not touching anything microsofty, ever, regardless of technical merits.
If I can support good (android, not saying its perfect) and boycott assholery (microsoft since day 1) why not?
I am pretty sure I've read that WP licensing fees are less than Android in the grand scheme of things. So, that's not at all true.
I'm a Canadian so I'm not sure how true this is, but I think Europeans tend to look at disdain at Microsoft as a corporation. The were convicted as abusing their monopoly in the EU and in the US, but election of GWB gave them a free pass in the US penalty phase.
Having Nokia effectively surrender their crown jewels to Microsoft by a former Microsoft exec doesn't exactly do any favours to image of Nokia as a strong and vibrant company. Perception is more than half the battle to marketing, and marketing is a huge component to smart phones (very few people actually NEED one).
That's just from outside the fishbowl looking in. Also telegraphing your moves before you have a plan in place is such a dumb idea. To paraphrase Steve Jobs, Nokia should have milked all their 'legacy' technologies dry while working on the 'next great thing (whether it was with Microsoft or not).' Instead they drove a heart through their products publicly and called it a day.
I've owned all 3, droid, iPhone, and now wp7. I'm biased though, I like wp7 because I can reuse skills I already have and use everyday, to write apps. Personally, I like metro.
The thing is, I know that android is adequate for my needs. WP7 doesn't promise to be any better, and may be worse. Given the cost of a smartphone, I'm going to be a little conservative here.
Maybe MS could do an offer - free replacement with an Android phone if you don't like it. I'd consider taking them up on that.
References?
If your intent was to limit discussion to only those "Slashdotters who have really tried WP", you'd end up with a mostly empty page.
Seriously, though - why would I bother to even try Windows Phone? I've seen the UI, both on the phone and on a friend's Win8 preview, and I think it's both ugly and a step backward in terms of functionality. I'm not going to bother even considering a different phone unless someone offers a compelling argument regarding something it does significantly better than my iPhone or my old Android phone. Just saying "it does xxxx just as well as an iPhone" doesn't give me a reason to switch from an iPhone.
#DeleteChrome
This is only because Microsoft is pulling every dirty trick in the book to make it so. They need the antitrust stick jammed up their asses again....hard.
I hate the GIANT font that doesn't fit on the screen used for titles on screens like the people app.
EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
I bought a Lumia 900 in April and I absolutely love it. I'm probably very different from most Slashdotters though, in that I don't rabidly hate anything that comes from Microsoft. I use Windows, I have a live.com mail account, I owned a Zune, I own an Xbox, and I don't have a problem with any of these products and services. I'm also a little different from Slashdotters in that I'm forced to use Linux for my day job, rather than being forced to use Windows, so perhaps that feeds my perception.
But back to windows phone, I suspect the reason I feel so differently about it compared to most Slashdotters is my needs are very different. I don't want to root it, I don't want to hack it, I don't want to tinker with it and mod it; I have plenty of other toys and gadgets I root/hack/mod (including other android devices). I just want a phone that works as advertised and doesn't get in my way. It makes calls (brilliant call quality on the Nokia hardware by the way), takes pictures, connects to all my social networks, connects to all the services I use, and allows me to download apps.
My choice was really down to two: iPhone or Windows Phone. I ultimately chose windows phone because of Office integration, Xbox integration, large screen, and the UI. iOS is nice and all, but it's starting to feel dated and I like the hubs concept in Windows Phone a lot more. With the latest release of iOS they're adding a lot more integration with services, which is something Windows Phone has had for a while now. Further the gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous Lumia hardware made the choice easy. This phone is really stunning, especially with the OLED display. I don't care that it's low resolution, it looks that amazing.
I ultimately didn't choose an android phone because of my experience with them in the past. While I never owned owe for my personal phone, I've used models like the Atrix and various tablets for my work. I found the UI gernally inconsistent and laggy, the apps weren't of the best quality comapred to iOS (I should mention I also own an iPod touch and iPad, and my girlfriend own an iPhone which I've used extensively), and the integration with services I use was lacking. In all, there just wasn't anything that "special" about Android if I didn't want to use it as a development device. The hardware variety is nice, but I also get that in Windows Phone. Actually, I view Windows Phone as sort of a middle ground between the totalitarian iPhone and the free-for-all Android. I don't want either, and that's why I think Windows Phone fits me best.
Who says I have to have a specific "beef" with Windows Phone? Microsoft is trying to sell me a product in a market niche that already has two major competitors; it's their job to explain why they are better than iOS and Android. And I just don't see it. Windows Phones aren't as polished as the iPhone, nor do they offer the freedom of Android. And they have far fewer apps available than either.
To the extent I do have an actual problem with Windows Phone (as opposed to just considering it not as good a product as its competitors), it's that Microsoft is insistent on pushing this failed model onto the consumer and even business desktop, despite the loud chorus of people saying "DO NOT WANT."
Having tried them, for me it comes down to the same issue Windows people have raised about non-Windows devices: integration, or lack thereof. Over time I've gotten a lot of stuff tied in to Google's services. Whether you like Google or not, the fact is my stuff's there and my desktop etc. all integrate with it. The Android phone does, the WP7 phone... doesn't, at least not easily. My contacts list, my calendar, maps, voicemail, e-mail, e-books, on-line documents, it's all quickly and easily available on the Android device while on the WP7 device I have to mess around installing third-party stuff and getting the phone to stop trying to use it's default services (which I'm not using) and use the ones I'm actually using instead.
The WP7 phone would probably be superior as a corporate phone, it'll integrate better with the Windows domain and the rest of the corporate stuff. But I don't have that environment, and I want a phone that works with what I do have. WP7 isn't it.
I'll probably get modded down for this, but the same could be said for Linux, particularly on the desktop. Yet Slashdotters don't hate Linux in spite of all the half-finished applications and constant promises that fixes to long standing bugs are "just around the corner," do they?
Seems a bit hypocritical to complain about about this same issue when it comes to a Microsoft product.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
but it does pretty much everything you need in a smartphone
Blackberries also do pretty much everything you need in a smartphone, but they're tanking as well. This is more about the brand and company, as others have pointed out.
What do Slashdotters who have really tried WP think of it?
Until the Lumia 900, WP7 was running on substandard or run of the mill phones. They just didn't measure up to the top of the line phones from everyone else. And even with the Lumia 900, they're dumping them for $99 in the US, a premium phone sold at the discount rate for middle of the road phones. This doesn't make the brand look good.
As for the OS itself, it is definitely a different and fresh look and feel. The visual elements are appealing but there are some irritating things about it though. Syncing my google calendar to the phone is a bad experience. I can't manually direct the phone to update calendar data, and it usually misses some events. I don't rely on the calendar for complete information. Other small things like the system font being too small and not adjustable, are things that need to be fixed. Overall, not as polished or complete as the other OS's but definitely an improvement over the last MS phone OS, and amazingly; better than Nokia's Symbian OS. (which is is piece of shit, I must add)
It is the best looking phone OS, with some major probs, aside from the immaturity of the OS, you're always wondering if MS will pull some kind of trick to screw you over. You just can't shake the MS borg feeling. They don't help themselves when they treat the independent and small developers like second class citizens, you don't have as much access to the OS as larger companies do. Those are the main probs that I have with WP7. Other than that, it is a solid 4th place, behind RIM/Blackberry's new OS, which is really nice.
That's mostly my problem is lack of good available phones. ExEn a windows mobile xna converter to Android and iOS makes me really like Windows Mobile as a development platform. I'd really like to get a good Windows Mobile phone, but simply my provider (Sprint) only carries one phone and it's terribad. Someone needs to create the equivalent of the Samsung Note for Windows Mobile and give it to Sprint, I'd be all over that like a fat man on fudge.
WTF Slashdot, why do I have to login 50 times to post?
Why would it be limited to the localhost? I expect to be able to ssh in and out of my phone. X-forwarding with NX would be awesome too.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Once someone makes a choice about which (phone) OS to use, they invest time in learning how it works and by purchases they've made.
Microsoft was just too late to the party, most of the interested parties had already chosen, and everyone else follows the people they know.
Like the typical left-brained slashdotter, I'm a technologist who values my "geek cred".
And throughout WP7's life (especially early, but still today) you need to defy logic and judgement and rational thinking just a little too much in order to buy a WinPhone. You needed to pretend that missing features weren't important. You needed to suffer lies and contempt regarding updates. You had to ignore all the productivity and fun and relevance that other smartphone owners were enjoying. You had to tolerate a weak ecosystem. You had to apologize for Microsoft's mis-steps.
That's just too much.
Slashdot: come for the pedantry, stay for the condescension.
I'm a Canadian so I'm not sure how true this is, but I think Europeans tend to look at disdain at Microsoft as a corporation.
I don't know about the rest of Europe, but if the UK is anything to go by, I think you're overstating the case. I don't get the impression that the majority of people really care about MS's abusive behaviour or anything like that (even if they should).
If there's any negativity associated with MS, it's more likely to be due to negative experience of Windows (not all of which will be MS's fault, but *will* be blamed on or associated with them anyway, consciously or subconsciously).
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
whenever the Lumia handsets are reviewed in the mainstream press they are often highly praised
I wonder how much money is changing hands to achieve that effect?
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Since when did Slashdot start publishing adverts as stories?
You must be new here.
Irony? Yea, it's like goldy and bronzy, only it's made of iron!
It's the "Windows" part.
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
I can't develop on it without Windows. Same beef I have with iPhone (although the iPhone has an installed base to make be bother buying a mac).
Android is easy to develop on using pretty much any OS. This is the same reason that PHP and Java have more mindshare than C# and Visual Basic. Devs can run any OS they want and still get work done.
Also Nokia had some very good smart phones in the works and then they were dumped in favor of this new system. Financially it make no sense to drop a phone that was ready to be released and to start over. Plus there's this idea that because Elop was from Microsoft that there was something fishy going on in the decision process.
Nokia covers a lot of grounds as a company more than just the tiny smart phone market. But it was losing out to the basic phones from cheap (price/quality) phones from China. It did have a good networking division but split that off into Nokia-Siemens (sheesh, Siemens and then Microsoft, they really do seem to pick the worst partners to get into bed with). I'd put about half the blame on changing markets and maturing competition and half the blame on poor leadership.
The search button.
I've hit it by accident countless times (Lumia 800, so touch button), and only actually wanted to use it maybe 10 times.
They are not! I am typing this on a Windows Phone right now and as you can see its.......^^^NO CARRIER
You sound like a classic apologist. The summary of this article already happily states that Windows 7.5 is still a immature OS... version 7.5
You say "it takes a little bit of time to learn". Apologists speak for "it is unintuitive as hell but finally after hours of trying, you managed to get it to turn on".
The entire problem with the MS phones is that the fanboys are trying to win the rest over with the same bullshit they have been trying for a dozen or more versions of MS attempts at a mobile OS. If the bullshit hasn't changed a bit, why should we believe the product has?
Lets review, Windows 7.5, the only mobile OS to be single core only. The only mobile OS to be restricted to a single resolution. The list goes on and on. The only people who like it are MS fanboys, reviews are not positive, at best they are "not as bad as expected". The fact is that MS has been producing phones that cost a premium but just can't compete. You can argue whether quad cores are needed or not but charging the same price for a single core is just not on. iPhone does retina displays, MS stays way way way behind in the pixel race.
It ain't cutting edge and it ain't cheap. So why buy it? Because it is MS? As others have said, MS is a negative brand, people AVOID MS if they can because they hate the moments they can't. There are some that are 100% MS and they like it because it stops them having to learn anything else. But the sales are to low to conclude it is just geek prejudice against MS. The sales figures are so low the opposite might well be true, only those with a prejudice against anything NOT MS are buying it.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
What's wrong with windows 8? This is best illustrated with a picture, (1000 words and all that)
http://imgur.com/nNcMm
Been there, moved on.
Funny that most of you chiming in here haven't even USED Windows Phone in any meaningful length of time. Tell me how much you hate the OS when you've used it for a month or two. I'm confident you'll have changed your mind. There are some major advantages to using this sort of interface and OS paradigm.
Being a die-hard Android fan, I decided usability was a key driver in my upgraded phone purchase. I owned a G1 and an ASUS phone. Well, when I did my research, I chose Windows Phone for usability... I gambled... boy did I ever. I could have bought a Galaxy S 2 but decided to roll the dice on a Samsung Focus. I knew that I had 15 days to return the phone and get a different one if I didn't like the Windows Phone experience. I was certain I was going to return the phone. Well, I still have the Windows Phone after 8 months, and I'm still happy with it.
Maybe people hear microsoft and then think about operating systems that crash and are prone to viruses. Maybe not a fair perception, but I know my dad became anti-MS after repeated virus infections on his Windows computer despite having up to date antivirus. He would complain of endless popup windows and spam ads windows that he couldn't close. I'm sure he was partially responsible by clicking on malware links and maybe even downloading and running malware directly.
I tried walking him through running some malware cleanup tools over the phone, but in the end I ended up sending him a Laptop running Linux that automatically pulls up Google Chrome when he starts up. He's had it for about 6 months now and has been completely happy with it, no more malware. So now he's got a terrible perception of Microsoft and probably wouldn't buy a Microsoft phone (not realizing that the phone OS is completely different than Win XP).
which was running 6.5 was replaced with Android Frodo thanks to the talent and generosity of the folks at xda-developers.com. Granted it was still not the speediest demon, but at least the phone app didn't crash as was typical with MS' garbage. I think they forgot that the device is first and foremost a phone. Just sayin.........
-- L8R, guitardood
but election of GWB gave them a free pass in the US penalty phase.
Bush has nothing to do with Microsoft, and his policies were not any more or less lenient toward monopolistic behavior in the market than any other president. He may be a fail president in many people's eyes and for some good reasons, but to think that Bush can be blamed for the slap on the wrist to Microsoft is absurd.
I really like the OS and the social network integration is second to none. While it's lacking in apps, many of the major ones are there, but it still needs more developer support if it wants to starting picking up market share. I'd also like to see prices come down. iOS has set a precedent for cheap apps (games from major players and specialized software not included) and Android has most of its users trained into refusing to pay for software at all.
The real deal killer in WP7 for me was the email client. Something as simple as an email with 5 images attached results in an excessive amount of taps. Where iOS and Android display them inline, WP7 takes a different approach in the name of "security".
Using the example of an email with 5 images attached, here's how you view them:
Tap "Show all attachments"
Tap each image to download them
Tap the thumbnail to view it full size
Tap back to go back to the body
Tap the next thumbnail, etc
Total number of taps to view all 5 images on WP7: 15
Total number of taps to view all 5 on iOS (and Android, I believe): 1 (images are displayed inline)
If you go "back" out of your message to the inbox, when you click on that same email, you have to "show all attachments" again (though you don't have to re-download your images)!
On html emails with images, you only have to tap the button to show all images.
Since a WP7 phone I buy today won't be upgradable when WP8 comes out in a few months, why would I buy one now?
That doesn't even go into the question of why would I buy one then either, given that it'll be competing against the iPhone 5 and whatever Samsung brings out next. Virtually the entire market agrees on this. Microsoft and Nokia haven't done a decent job of telling people why it's a better phone.
This isn't an Apple product. People won't buy it just based on the name (though the iPhone also happens to be a pretty good phone). Windows isn't a positive brand, so Microsoft has to sell it. They've failed.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
You can't really claim that, and forget that it's Microsoft's "patent licensing" deals that are causing that to happen.
I've had a WP7 since its release and functionally it does everything I want. the Metro UI makes sense to me on the phone, and I love managed code, but the API exposed to developers is schizophrenic. Take for example audio playback:
I want to write a media player. I can easily play music from my phone's music collection, awesome! But only when my app is running. See, you can't create a new playlist programatically (for "security" reasons), and you can't queue up more than one song, so when your app gets tombstoned, the currently playing track will finish out its remaining time and then your media experience ends.
But wait, new in 7.5 is the BackgroundAudioPlayer that persists when your app is terminated. Awesome! Except that it can't actually read from your media collection. WTF? It can only play streaming audio or songs from your app's private local storage. And no, you can't copy songs from your media collection to your app's local storage, because as we all know, that would be theft. From yourself, or something.
I don't understand how features like this get green-lit in such a half-assed way, but it drives me nuts. I haven't done any Android or iOS development though so I can't compare the experience.
I am the very model of a modern major general!
82. Need to be plugged in to wall charger to sync wirelessly (a funny definition of wireless) [hehehehe]
113. Bing maps need to tap to get voice direction for next turn. [muhahahaha, I imagine the sucker alone in his car]
115. Compass gives wrong reading in the Southern hemisphere due to bad API in the OS. [MUHAHAHA, a first-world compass]
And the list is long. I recon 20% of those are valid for iOS. But the rest is quite epic. Compounded with the lack of apps, I think the OP has his answer...
Additionally, WP is supremely locked down and jailbreaking is not as simple (or, for some phones, impossible) as it is on Android or iOS. This makes a lot of the things we can do in iPhone and Android impossible in WP. For example, it's possible (and very easy) to backup text messages on iPhone and Android. No way to do this on WP at this time of writing and I don't think they get backed up when you sync with Zune. To worsen matters, WP is *still* vulnerable to a two-year old SMS bug that can make a phone completely inoperable (even after a reboot) when it receives a special text message!
Finally, you need to use Zune to sync stuff. I personally hate using a huge software package to sync stuff, and while Zune is pretty nice, it's still a huge step backward from not needing anything at all on Android.
It's not that Windows Phone is bad; it's just that they don't have anything valuable enough for most Android or iPhone users to switch over. It's great for people new to the smartphone world, but that segment of the market has been pretty small for a while now.
I think MS is being victim of what it obliterated its competitors with on the desktop: nobody needs a third wheel. iOS and Android are enough. WinPhone is nice, but not nice enough to warrant its existence: it does what the other 2 do, no more, no less,so why bother with it ? If it weren't for Nokia's solid hardware and paid-for fidelity, Winphone would be history already.
Also, I think veteran smartphone users have reserves of ill-will against MS for the ergonomics catastrophe that was Winphone before 7.x, and for having tried it I find even the current Winphone somewhat clunky (which way do I scroll again ? oh, depends...).
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
Proprietary Bullshit.
~Just as a thing fails if it lacks a kernel, so too it fails if it lacks a skin. ~ Rumi, Discourses
They were the first smartphone for many of us. The HTC blueAngel, the ATT 8525, etc.. They showed us what the portable internet could look like. But you needed a stylus and they never really innovated the OS. We were stuck on clone OS's called pocket PC, Pocket PC 2000, Pocket PC 2002..2003, Windows Mobile 2003, 2003 SE, WM5, WM6, WM6.1, WM6.1.5, WM6.5 WM6.5.5 and hacked WM7. Up to 2010, they still insisted on using that damn start button. We waited for a new versions but were continually let us down with versions still based off Windows CE which is at heart still windows desktop lite. Upgrades were rarely ever available, instead you had to buy a new phone or find the cracked leaks. More importantly, Microsoft appeared to simply not care about aesthetics and simply wanted to force us to believe they were putting a good effort. They released almost no apps for it, they encouraged few to join them, didn't care about video hardware games or user complaints. When Apple became king of the hill in 2007, Microsoft reacted to us that were loyal to them as if we were on crack and were in love with a false God. Balmer said that iphone was a joke and never would make it. We all saw the writing on the wall except Microsoft. Now Microsoft comes up with a new OS, again tied to its desktop and we're supposed to trust them? Who is to say that Microsoft won't simply throw in the towel on smartphones and leave users hanging. AT least Google has proven that they are in this for the long haul. Palm, Microsoft, and Blackberry have a long way to catch up in sales and really haven't don't enough to cause most of us to abandon our new platforms. Iphone gave us the cool multitouch phone with no stylus, Android gave us cool Widgets. Both gave us robust app stores and support their developers. To win me back, Microsoft would have to prove they are in this for the long run. Keep revising the O.S., publicly announce the upgrades and the improvements the EXISTING phones will be getting and be innovative with something. Lately all we hear about when it comes to innovation is Google and Apple. Google has the NFC Near field communications, killer video chips, face unlock. Apple has the cool looking phones, Siri, and integration with googleTV or apple TV. Microsoft, you're up next...
yet whenever the Lumia handsets are reviewed in the mainstream press they are often highly praised.
Because ZDNET is generally where these glowing reviews are published and ZDNET is basically owned by Microsoft, and then you get the people like Robert Enderle who will say anything after the check clears.
I thought this was obvious for the past *tries to remember* 20 years. Yes, I know that predates the actual ZDNET, but I'm including Ziff-Davis publishing.
--
BMO
I have made them completely iIrrelevant in my life and prefer it that way. That is not to say I never use a MS product it is just that I am in no way dependent on anything they produce.
Got Code?
Submitter dismisses Tomi Ahonen as a 'commentator' (the quotes betray his disdain), but Tomi's an ex-Nokia guy with far more mobile experience and smarts than 99% of us. For what it's worth, Forbes recently picked him and his blog as a top influencer in the mobile industry.
Opinions are like assholes -- we all have one. But when your predictions are consistently correct for a very long time, this makes you one smart asshole -- and that's what Tomi is ;).
Slashdot: come for the pedantry, stay for the condescension.
i certainly won't touch anything that has MS's paw prints on it.
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
If the iPhone didn't exist, I might very well be interested in Windows Phone. I think it's an interesting UI and has a lot going for it. However, I am VERY happy with my iPhone. There's nothing that Windows Phone does that makes me interested in looking seriously at it. A brand new product has to be an order of magnitude better than what someone is already using to make it worth the hassle of making a change. Even if I were to say that Windows Phone is the best platform out there (which I don't believe), it still wouldn't be MUCH better. For people already entrenched in the iOS world, I see nothing that Windows Phone brings to make us interested in switching. (And people who are attracted to Android are attracted to it for reasons that make Windows Phone antithetical to what they want anyway.) I just don't see who Windows Phone is that much better for. I have only one friend who uses the platform. He loves it, but the vast majority of my other friends are happy iPhone users (with a smattering of Android users in the bunch). Other than people giving up BlackBerry, it's hard to see what the legitimate target market is for Windows Phone. Most new smartphone users are going to either go with the perceive leading brand (iPhone, regardless of what others think) OR the mass market brand, Android, which they're going to see the most choices for. Microsoft's strategy isn't adding up in the current smartphone market, IMO.
Yikes, what OS are you running? I haven't had to reboot win7 for...I can't remember.
This is exactly what someone would come up with as some kind of "challenge" where the outcome is so obviously biased.
In none of these videos the speed of any smartphone or operating system is on the test. It is the speed of the individual people using their phones. I tried some of these challenges, like a local search for a restaurant. After a bit of practice I could get an answer on my 3 year old and slow smartphone after 6 seconds. From those 6 seconds I spend about 1 second waiting for my phone, the rest is the network connection and my typing speed.
So any improvement on the hardware or software side can only influence the 1 second. Other than that the phone has to guess what I think to prevent the slow typing or speech recognition part.
My first try took 20 seconds as I missed a few shortcuts and this is how you can beat almost everybody by claiming to have a faster phone when you just know exactly what to touch/type.
A thousand users and you're worried about the cost of a certificate, you're doing it wrong. Also how hard is it to get a cert that matches the URL, especially if you are using self signed certs and can bash out a new one for free. If you start without a horrificly misconfigured system you may have better luck.
I don't get the impression that the majority of people really care about MS's abusive behaviour or anything like that (even if they should).
You underestimate the influence of mavens. The average user is not going to drop dollars on a phone or phone plan if their favourite tech expert doesn't like it.
The notable exceptions here would be Windows and iOS, but for two very different reasons. People use Windows because everybody else uses Windows, and it would be just too inconvenient to change. It's a form of lock-in. People use iOS thanks to a combination of effective marketing and design.
Windows phone has little to no lock-in leverage, and MS and its partners have done nothing to pull millions of happy iphonesters away from Apple. Much like Linux on the desktop, it's not good enough for WPn to be as good as iOS, they have to be compellingly better--and convince people of this--to win mindshare at this point. In a karmic twist, MS now finds itself at both ends of this problem.
So with the average user feeling somewhat indifferent about Windows Phone, and their techy friends recommending iphones and android, MS stands without a market until they do something drastic and carve out their own, and it's been decades since they've done anything really significant in that vein.
I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen
So a high-numbered user who has never commented on a single story posts exactly one story submission about how a widely ignored niche platform is much better than the competition, has it accepted, then doesn't bother to come back and reply to it. And that story contains gems like:
as though Windows Phone is the app market leader and those toy Android and iPhone systems just don't have the same broad application base.
Right.
That seems perfectly legitimate.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
You shouldn't be asking me why I don't switch, you should be asking what is so compelling about WP7 (which has such a poor app ecosystem) that is worth trading out IOS or Android?
The thing that makes Windows Phone a no-go for me is that they failed to duplicate what is (arguably) the biggest coup that Apple pulled off with the iPhone: taking the carrier out of the picture for updates. If I buy an iPhone, I can be reasonably sure that I'm going to *reliably* get 2-3 years of updates, fixes, and new functionality.
With Windows Phone (and Android, for that matter), I have no idea if my phone will ever get an update...it all depends on the whim of your carrier.
It's simply that in the UK Microsoft are not cool. Not cool in the slightest. They're like your ultra-uncool dad turning up to a party.
/does/ do just as well, if not better, than anything else. And EVERYTHING is available for it.
I'm a fairly enthusiastic advocate for open-ness, but at the end of the day I just want a functional product which works. I looked a number of Android phones and some of them are outstanding, but the splintered ecosystem and carrier fuckwits putting the brakes on when/if you get your updates put me off. So I have an iPhone. Does it do everything I want? No. But it does everything it
How can you say Windows phone is an immature os? It's been around since the early pda's. Microsoft was one of the first companies to jump on board with a mobile os that was exactly like it's pc os. The only thing that's changed is the interface and the name. Sure, it's gotten better, but I don't think that immature is the right word to describe it. Microsoft should be ten years ahead of Android and iOs by now. I think the fact that they aren't speaks volumes about the product.
This signature intentionally left blank.
There is no beef, Microsoft has screwed me and industry so many times over that sorry, but no thanks. Even that new gui makes no sense (I know, it's propably meant for other type of users, but still).
Problem with Microsoft in mobile market that there is already one "Good Enough" king, and that's Android. Lot of stuff indicates that Microsoft don't know how to market this - going after Apple or Android crowd (their overlap, but barerly). For Apple they are lacking offers for rest of the set (no tablets, no sensible integration, no "rebel/cool" factor). For Android, well, they are cheap, and people want only little from touch screen phone, not power horse Nokia offers with Microsoft.
Even there, Nokia did quite stupid and interesting move, selling N9 (with custom MeeGo) like hot cakes in East Europe and other parts of the world. People already *have* proper Nokia new wave smartphone. Why they would have to buy Microsoft one?
What makes me sad that this desperate attempt of entering market will take Nokia's life. Microsoft has destroyed Symbian (huge industry and user base), MeeGo (very potential user base), and pratically best phone hardware producer in the world in one move.
user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
And since Microsoft is probably the most hated software company on the planet, I want nothing to do with any of their products. With a Windows phone, users can expect to be locked out when they attempt to modify it, locked in when it comes to their data, vulnerable when it comes to security threats and spied upon whenever a telco may find it convenient.
My opinion in this is, of course, my own and it may sound paranoid and/or overly opinionated to some, but after several decades of experience I've comes to expect the worst from this company. Clearly, profit has always been far more important to them than customer satisfaction, i.e. their stockholders way more important than their stakeholders. Microsoft's secret to success has always been strongly dependent on its ability to limit consumer choice to its products only -- not its ability to make better products. Luckily, nowadays we do have a choice, so as long as that's the case I will do my best to avoid all of their products.
Released in 2010, and in 2012 an obvious fan (the article submitter) calls it immature. I think that summarises it nicely.
I am on Verizon, so I am stuck with a single model, the HTC Trophy. I love it, and my only complaint I ever have about it is this: Everywhere I look, apps are written for the more successful iPhone and Android platforms. It seems that except where Microsoft has ponied up some cash for the effort, the more popular apps don't get ported to it.
-- Who am I? How did I get here? My God, what have I done?!
As an app developer I understand apple's simple philosophy: Spend money in iTunes. While their rules can be a bit annoying they all stem from that simple need. Whereas Microsoft products have a slightly different philosophy: Use MS Enterprise products. While the philosophies may not seem wildly different the key is in the surface area of the problem. Microsoft has a large number of products. Thus things like .Net has too many cooks from too many parts of MS all trying to get their part in your face. I also sense that there are power struggles from each of the different departments at MS winning and losing power resulting in an ever shifting set of priorities.
.Net (or whatever has replaced it by now) and then having each piece of integration optional including in the IDE. If I am not using SQL in my project then it should completely vanish from the IDE. Microsoft seems to also vary from hand holding to slaps across the head. The make MFC then they create C# as some kind of answer to Java. Then when the C++ people fell left out they create managed C++ now they have something that starts with a W but I won't learn any of it. Why? Because I have a strong sense with Apple that Objective-C (which I don't like) and its freedom to use as much C and C++ as you pretty well like isn't going anywhere. I am willing to bet that iOS 19 will still have NSObject.
I am not an Enterprise developer and thus for me all the outlook/sharepoint/MSSQL integration is bloat and baggage. If they were to try and win me over it would be by cutting all MS Enterprise integration out of
With MS I suspect that none of the code written for today's phones will hardly be worth the effort to port it to two versions from now. Some new group will have taken over and everything will be DirectX or Lua or whatever whim comes over them. Maybe Microsoft will come up with a NoSQL database and when sales aren't all that great they will tie a whole language in with it. I just don't know and thus can't be bothered to make enough commitment to MS to even look over what today's product offering is. The only reason I ever use MS programming products is to make Windows versions of a desktop app. Hello QT.
Windows is for losers, in all of it's incarnations.
Hey kid, your mom, called. She'd like you to come upstairs to take out the trash.
I don't respond to AC's.
That comment doesn't make any sense, at all. In what was is Windows Phone a "desktop"?
Well, it might make sense if you are actually talking about Windows Mobile (which was a fair bit like desktop Windows scaled down to mobile), and are not aware that UI between WinMo and WinPhone is completely different.
Nah. No one ever astroturfs or shills on Slashdot.
They save that for the influential and widely read tech sites.
I have an iPhone 4S, it has decent specs, decent software, Siri, and is fully integrated with the rest of my Apple ecosystem (a 3rd generation iPad and a 15" high-end late-2011 MacBook Pro). Why would I waste money on an overpriced product with specs from 2009 that doesn't offer me anything like this? I could understand wasting that kind of money on an N9, and I have seriously considered purchasing one, but that's because it has the unique property of being a true Linux phone for my nerd side (and not the butchered crap from Google). For serious stuff, however, the Apple ecosystem is the closest thing I can think of to my definition of perfection, thus I would never consider anything other than an iPhone as my main phone.
I have had a Windows 6 phone and a Windows 7 phone. Windows 6 was basically a short screen version of Windows XP. One reason I had for sticking with Windows phones was their interoperability with their other products (such as MSSQL, IIS, Exchange, etc) and the other products previous versions. However, Windows 7 phones won't interact properly with certain older email servers at least without a patch to the phone.
And in my case, AT&T won't roll that patch out. In theory, this means I might have a beef with AT&T but I'd think that Microsoft would put better compatibility software from the beginning.
Next time, I'll probably go with an iPhone since I already know they work and it'll be easier on trying to track down accessories.
Not only is the platform not as open as Nokia's Maemo, or Meego/Harmattan, it actively antagonizes the developer and end user in favor of some shiny device flogged by a carrier.
I'd rather buy another N900 or rework an N9 to use a keyboard than even consider the Nokia Whorephones.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
One of the upcoming Gnome or Unity release uses an idea I had a while ago. It drops the menu out of the title on float over, or on click. It's kind of the best of both, you get the space back, and you reduce the mouse movements. I've tried single menu, and find that on large monitors or multiple monitor setups, it's awful. It somewhat tolerable on a laptop, although I find it also takes space away from my status bar , which I use to display other things ... that menu takes up a lot of space. I'm looking forward to trying out the hidden, per-window menus.
I'm not sure that this holds up with high-resolutions. I think it was clearly the case back then, but I'm guessing around 720P it starts to flip (that is the resolution where I start heavily using edge snapping in Windows to put windows side by side).
Going right, clicking to activate the menu, then going left does not make sense to be the most efficient method to me, and that's on a single modest sized monitor.
I do think menus should be in the title bar (or hidden like in chrome, with the title bar finding other use), so that when a window is touching the top of the screen, it gets the edge effect.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Regardless of whether the actual usage experience is good or bad, the minority market share puts Windows Phone users at a disadvantage when it comes to accessories. I have seen plenty of reasonably-priced ( under $140) aftermarket car stereos that are speccd. to be iPhone compatible and even can control apps like Pandora through their front bezel controls. I haven't really seen any that support WinPhone7 or any nightstand clock radios that can wake you up playing mp3s off a WinPhone7.
It's difficult to just magically have this kind of third-party ecosystem materialize. Definitely a chicken-and-egg situation... Not one that I am eager to be a part of.
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
I really like my Lumia 800 (had it since nov/dec 2011), it's the best phone UI I've used (I've used BB, iOS, Android). The only downside: it needs Zune and won't work well with Linux (yet).
My biggest beef with my Windows phone is that I cannot return it for a refund.
Those who can do. Those who can't sue.
I remember when Windows Vista was released all the major press (and PC magazines) printed their usual reviews giving it something like 9 out of 10 and rating it as superior to Windows XP. As they've done with more or less every release of Windows (even ME). When Windows 7 came out those same magazines were quick to praise it and at the same time make very negative comments about how bad Vistal was, the same OS they praised just a year or two ago. The reality seems to be that large amounts of the mainstream press generate good reviews of Microsoft software regardless of whether it's actually any good.
For my sins I've used Windows for many year (since the days of Windows 3.0). I personally think that when compared with competition, all versions of Windows were actually pretty dreadful prior to XP. At the consumer level, no memory protection was present in the OS until Windows XP. That meant a single badly written program or driver could write over another programs memory causing seemingly random crashes and lost work and when it crashed it was usually that the whole OS would go or become unstable, not a single application. As a developer a single mistake could leave you having to reboot your PC, wait minutes for it to re-load, re-compile your code and try again. This alone was what made me switch to Unix sytems were a coding mistake (which I think all developers make from time to time) wouldn't bring down the entire OS and all applications (editor included). Yet magazines continued to heap praise on the likes of Windows 95, 98 and ME. It is only really when XP came out I felt Micorosoft had released a version of Windows for the consumer that mostly worked most of the time (yes the odd BSOD and hang up, but no longer something to endure every few hours), which is probably why so many are still running it today, more than 10 years after it was released.
Yet all the press reviews of WIndows 98, ME etc would cover things like enhanced USB support, larger disk support but ignore the fact it was nearly impossible to a days work without rebooting your PC at least once, especially if running more than one application. As a user you just had to get in the habit to save every few minutes to minimise lost work. In a similar vein, most magazines give every version of Internet Explorer a good review. Certainly they did with IE6 whilst now they criticise it for how bad it was and what a dreadful legacy it has left - but why didn't the reviews say so at the time?
If m$ wants the truth, then they'll have to ask someone that has nothing to lose by telling the truth.
If you replaced MS with Palm, you would have the same story. Every review of WebOS was glowing but the phones just didn't sell. This story plays out so many times, I just chalk it up to people are sheep and run with the leader.
That said, MS needs to get their act together with their stores. The one that opened recently here has staff that are unhelpful, not knowledgeable about their or others products, and come off as downright rude. Now that they've been open for a month I see it mostly empty while the Apple store in the same mall is always packed.
I came to do the MS challenge with my Pre 3 and asked if, after I picked from one of their challenges, they would pick from one of mine they ganged up and edged me out of the store.
Really, did this needed to be said......
Anyone remember WinCE the actual name of the product was wince. Anyway I remember Windows Mobile and basically it boils down to fool me one shame on you fool me twice shame on me.
Yes, I had used a Windows Phone, and I don't like WP, either. But what relevance does it have to GGP's comment and my reply? The problem with WP is definitely not that "it's a desktop". In fact, it's further removed from the desktop than iOS or Android. It's precisely why so many people are mad now that Metro has spread from WP to Win8 - i.e. to the desktop - where they don't like it at all because it changes things so much.
Why would you care about Windows marketplace on a WinMo phone? They all have always allowed installing arbitrary apps outside of any locked-down store - in fact, it was the primary distribution model for them.
So what? He's asking why some people don't like WP7. In the unlikely event that he does work at MS or Nokia, that's a really good thing. If not, it can't hurt to hear various opinions.
I don't own a WP7 phone, but I have played around with one and actually liked the UI. Now if only it had all of the apps that I use on my O2X, I might consider getting one.
You underestimate the influence of mavens.
My post was mainly intended as a correction to the OP's misconception that "I think Europeans [i.e. Europeans in general] tend to look at disdain at Microsoft as a corporation [because of their abusive behaviour]". Unfortunately, this was just wishful thinking. :-(
You are right though- as is the other person who (correctly) noted the perception that MS just aren't cool.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Wait, WP phones have an integrated dial-up modem? Is it 56k?
I'm so buying one. Just think about it, a FidoNet node in your pocket! ~
You underestimate the influence of mavens. The average user is not going to drop dollars on a phone or phone plan if their favourite tech expert doesn't like it.
True, but the mavens are not motivated by hatred against Microsoft. They are motivated because:
1. iOS and Android have been proven to work.
2. iOS and Android have a large ecosphere of apps. And tech users. And non-tech users.
3. iOS this and Android that.
Apple, Samsung and HTC have repeatedly been on the top of "best phone" lists for years now. Nokia's Windows phone is not being ignored because it is worse or disliked, it is being ignored because no one has one in the first place to offer a recommendation. Under those circumstances it's not good enough to compete, one has to be better. And it's not significantly better.
Sorry, even being an avid Linux user, I see Windows Phones' Metro interface being way ahead of its time. Finally, Microsoft makes something, from scratch, that's worth buying, and because it says "Windows" and "Microsoft" people wont buy it and will simply bitch about it without picking it up. I wouldn't say its doomed to fail, Windows Mobile has survived before, and there are plenty of niche markets out there that are like this. Just because its not "The next best thing" doesn't mean its a failure. Just because your car doesn't make 1000 horsepower, gets 200 miles/gallon and costs 15 grand, doesn't mean its a 'failure'. Everyone has preferences. People have bought the Lumia, they love it. So Nokia has to downsize, stop the fucking presses. -TM
The main gripe with Windows Phone was that i couldn't come close to customising the looks of it (oh yay i can change theme and the slider screen, big woop), Nor could i change the notification tone, except to one of the 10 jingles provided (how long has customisable text notifications been available to other phones, years and years i believe)
What is a Word Perfect (WP) phone?
Open Standards Portal
I call all smartphones immature - including the holy (as in, full of holes) iOS. At every use, there's something that could be better, but is o.k. for now and clearly just too cool compared to the vacuum (tubes, and/or lack of any viable product) that preceeded it.
Actually, the thing that's really immature is the wireless data infrastructure - when that doesn't require a $500+ annual donation to use, I'll be a lot more enthusiastic about any portable wireless device.
No touchscreen-only device purporting to be for business / email use will ever get a good review from me.
And for all us folks who want to get actual work done on the go, theres Blackberry.
I have an HD7 and my wife has a Lumia 800, I chose her phone :). I have no problems with MS, aside from Office, I think their software has an undeservedly bad reputation. The OS is very nice, one of my main reasons for getting a WP is coz I like Visual Studio and XNA and I want my home projects to be nice and productive. The integration between camera, social networking, e-mail etc is really cool, photo -> facebook, search for place -> maps, also combining contacts and easy switching between text/msn/facebook in the messaging service. Main downside is the lack of apps (I missed out on the draw something craze), there are so many cool apps on iPhone. The back/windows/search are also really bad for games in landscape mode it's really easy to touch them with the palm of your hand and then some games take an age to restore from tombstoning.
If you asked Siri what the best smartphone is a month ago it would have told you it was the Nokia Lumina 900 Windows Phone. Just sayin http://www.pcworld.com/article/255508/siri_says_nokia_lumia_900_not_apple_iphone_is_the_best_smartphone_ever.html?tk=rel_news
I had the opposite reaction - I thought it was very much like a desktop OS bastardized for a phone. It even had a start button. I haven't tried 7.0 yet (and I highly doubt I ever will), but 6.5 was pretty bad.
That was precisely my point. Windows Mobile of any version - the latest being 6.5 - did have a Start button, and overall was a lot like downscaled desktop. Windows Phone of any version - the first being 7, and the latest being 7.5 - has a completely different UI that doesn't have a Start button, and doesn't have anything even remotely resembling desktop. WP's relationship to WinMo is about as close as Android's relationship to webOS.
TFA is about Windows Phone, not about Windows Mobile. And the person who started the thread said that the "problem is with windows phone".
Why do we need yet another phone OS when we already had a bunch. Market voted for android and ios. Sorry Microsoft, but the boats already sailed. I dont care because I dont want to care. You and nokia and rim all blew it by being too late, too hard or too expensive. Its done. Move along now. Nothing to see here.
It's not about his policies. It's about the timeline. The Judge had found for the DOJ. Then Mr. Bush came into office (and therefore the DOJ had a new boss). Then the DOJ asked the judge to just "slap MS on the wrist". It's not about policies but timing.
Since I haven't seen either, I really can't say. Your point was?
When it comes to Microsoft, stay the course doesn't always happen. They killed COM,Silverlight and now they're on an HTML5 kick. Microsoft shifts platforms too much for anything to be a sure bet. App developers and in the know consumers stay away because if Windows Phone doesn't succeed, Microsoft will yet again change it all up again. Of course, in order for Windows Phone to succeed app developers and in the know consumers will have to buy into WP. (Chicken and egg)
Your common grade consumer doesn't care on a technical level about the damn thing. It usually has something to do with brand recognition, word of mouth suggestions from their more tech savvy friends, price point, or "ooooh shiny" factor. Microsoft is going to have the hardest time in this department (which is the largest) since no one knows about Windows Phone (in a relative sense, and that's mostly because the Lumina 900 commercials suck, but of course they would, Microsoft has one of the most shit filled ad departments ever., tech savvy people aren't suggesting it because of fear of being abandoned, the price point on the Lumina 900 is pretty good but there are a lot of Androids out there that are the same price, and the last thing the Lumina 900 has is "ooooh shiny" Apple's got the monopoly on that.
But yeah, Microsoft's history on products has been lousy. Rarely do they stand behind anything and on that point I'm very shaky about getting one. I don't want to be left in the digital dark ages because Microsoft found a new goal to go after.
from experience, ms has tended to ditch technologies. usually no upgrade or migration path and usually without warning or option to transfer to open source support, since its all propitiatory. i know most tech is forgotten and thrown out after 2 years, but Microsoft brings their own salted earth philosophy to their discarded tech.
You say: "I find it a painful process to go back to an Android or iPhone for some obscure app not yet supported on WP."
The apps which already have Android and/or iOS support, which you also want WP support for, may be obscure in terms of the ones you as a person are particularly looking for. However, there are a whole host of non-obscure apps supported on Android and iOS, which are not supported for Windows Phone yet.
Angry Birds Space. Temple Run. A banking app for Chase Manhattan bank. Instagram. Any Zynga app - Words with Friends, Draw Something etc. Pandora.
Dropbox is an app whose whole point is to be cross-platform. That they don't think WP is worthy of a port yet is a sign.
There's a Nook app for iOS and Android but not yet for Windows Phone, although I'm sure the $300 million deal Microsoft made with Barnes and Noble six weeks ago will change that. At the moment, Lumia owners are still out of luck due to the deal. It just goes to show that popular apps are not written overnight.
Is there a database app that can handle Microsoft Access files on Windows Phone? AFAIK, there is not. There is one for iPhone and Android. I should know, I wrote the one for Android. If you want to search through a Microsoft Access database file on a mobile phone - with Microsoft Access being included in most of the Microsoft Office suites I've found at large companies and universities - you have to buy an Android or iPhone.
All of these are all popular apps on iPhone and Android which are not on Windows Phone. Then there apps which have been ported to Windows Phone, but which reviewers say are much worse than their iPhone and Android versions. Rdio is one example, according to Techcrunch and Gizmodo reviewers - they love the Android and iPhone version, but think the WP port is sub-par.
Mmm... I like beef. Don't you think it's a bit unfair and insulting (to the beef) to compare a slab of beef to Windows Phone?
The only purpose of Windows Phone is to stuff Microsoft software into the only kind of consumer device that Microsoft did not take over yet. It has no advantages, no good ideas, no directions of development that can, even potentially, produce anything worthwhile. Only old Microsoft model with stupid ideas at the core and thousands of tiny special instances of everything that supposedly eventually will duplicate functionality of the few components of a simple, elegant system.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Sv6dMFF_yts#!
'I don't know what it's called. I just know the sound it makes, when it takes a man's life.' ~ Four Leaf Tayback
I have an Android phone and I am completely satisfied with it. Windows phone may very well be the bees-knees, but it came out too late for me to care. And now that I'm familiar with Android, I don't care to switch. (Not to mention the aversion to Microsoft's OS that I've had for about 15 years.... it wouldn't keep me from trying a windows phone, but it might keep me from actually purchasing one.)
The commentators (mostly iOS zealots) believe everyone who has an android phone was suckered into buying one (daringfireball.net) and the only thing that all the Android users are waiting for is their 2 year stint to be up so they can buy iPhones. I've not heard that level of hubris from the Windows Phone aficionados, but some have drunk the Redmond Kool-Aid and believe Windows Phone is the one true messiah.
I don't care for the iPhone for a myriad of reasons. But that's another story.
It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
I can think of plenty of legitimate situations where one is forced to use a mismatched certificate. It's not even that insecure as long as you personally verify the key fingerprint the first time you connect.
TFA was "What's your beef with Windows Phone?". If the beef is that "previous versions sucked and I'm not even going to bother with Windows Phone 7", then that's their beef. Just because you think WP7 is a new O/S, don't spout off at folks just because they differ in their opinion. And by the way, if Windows Phone 7 is so new and different why is it Windows Phone SEVEN (a notch up from 6.5) and not Windows Phone 1.
That's just like saying that Windows XP was new simply because they called it XP (or Vista or Windows 7 or Windows 8 for that matter) instead of NT, which is what all they are. UI changes do not a new os make.
Just sayin.....
-- L8R, guitardood
Nokia's Windows phone is not being ignored because it is worse or disliked
Having tried several W7 phones, I agree with Tomi Ahonen. It's not good enough and doesn't do enough.
9. From TFA:
"Reason 9 - the OS is deficient. The Windows Phone OS can seem exciting when first seen with its 'Tiles' but on short usage it reveals how limited and unfinished it is. The tech reviews after using Windows Phone (and Lumia) are quite consistent that Windows Phone is not yet ready for prime time. It may become so in the future, but its not yet nearly competitive with advanced OS platforms out there."
Android works for me. iOS works for many others, and Microsoft's phones bring nothing compelling to the table to make either switch.
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Just because you think WP7 is a new O/S, don't spout off at folks just because they differ in their opinion.
See, it's not an opinion, it's an objective fact. Which you'd have known if you bothered to actually see it, or at least read something other than Slashdot about it.
And by the way, if Windows Phone 7 is so new and different why is it Windows Phone SEVEN (a notch up from 6.5) and not Windows Phone 1.
1. To sync with Windows 7 on the desktop and ride in the wake on its success.
2. Because the kernel is still Windows CE, and was originally intended to be 7.0 (it ended up being a fork that's midway between CE 6.x and 7.0).
UI changes do not a new os make.
The changes are far from being only UI-related. It's a completely different API, different process lifetime, different sandboxing policies... there is very little that is actually common.
But I would also argue that UI also makes a big part of what an OS is, as far as user is concerned. For the third time now, I have to reiterate the same example I was bringing up before: you're now essentially arguing that Android and webOS and Maemo are all "the same OS", on the grounds that they all share the common kernel and some base system components. Which is only half-true from technical perspective, and completely and utterly irrelevant from end user perspective.
Nothing, he's just trying desperately to have the last word when he's totally wrong and has no idea what he's talking about.
It's irrelevant who is causing the extra cost. The end result is still the same: extra cost.
Why don't you just go and buy a phone from a shop? Surely you're not forced to buy phones through your service provider?
If the UI is the part of the OS that is crashing, then yes, a new UI will be a great update. However, as is usually the case with MS, adding a new UI when the base OS is crashing, is simply putting perfume on a turd.
And nowhere did it say in TFA that only people who have objective facts should respond to this post
And BTW, you question my experience? I'm 47 years old and have been programming for well over 30 years, and have experience with Microsoft as a company from their BASIC on paper tape days and I feel that their products are bloated, bug-ridden and antiquated junk with a really cool paint job, I've said previously that I have experience, both programming and as an end-user with 5,6 & 6.5. And my beef with Windows Phone is that my perception is that it is a piece of crap. So for that reason, I will not buy a Windows Phone phone, I will not program for a Windows Phone phone, I will not recommend a Windows Phone phone and I will provide my experience with previous versions to perspective customer's as evidence as to what kind of crap to expect from a Windows Phone phone in the future. I will always feel they're products are junk, until Microsoft themselves create something, from scratch, that is worth my time and money. I support their garbage on a daily basis because they have lot's of marketing money and in turn I have lot's of customers requiring support (most of them in fact), but I don't have to spend my money on any of it nor am I required by any laws of the slashdot gods to tow the party line.
1. To sync with Windows 7 on the desktop and ride in the wake on its success.
Thanks for making one of my points.
2. Because the kernel is still Windows CE, and was originally intended to be 7.0 (it ended up being a fork that's midway between CE 6.x and 7.0)
The only forking going on is the back door job Microsoft marketing people are trying to do with the phone buying public.
And you keep evading my main premise that on a Windows based phone THE PHONE APP CRASHES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Finally, who made you the SlashDot cop? Do yourself a favor and STFU before the entire world recognizes you for what you are.
-- L8R, guitardood
Hi all,
I decided to share, for those interested, my experience with WP7. As background: I am a programmer, I have developed for iOS, and I am a Linux, Mac and Windows user in a regular basis. I used an iPhone since the original version, and have used iPhones, Androids and, for the last year and a half, a WP7 (I have the feared Samsung Omnia 7). I work at an university and I am not related to M$ or Nokia or any other phone company in any way.
I would like to start with the positives: Windows Phone is a very fresh operating system. It is visually extremely attractive, fluid and comfortable to use. In terms of the design, it focuses in the information, giving text a central place when text is the focus (of course, images and videos when they are the focus). It succeeds in this most of the time. In addition, they data aggregation is the best of any platform (ok, maybe WebOS was better, but I have no experience there; ... and RIM X is not out yet). If you have contacts from multiple sources (Google, Windows Live, Facebook) you can aggregate them in the people hub, and link multiple accounts to the same person. Then you can also group the individuals and create feeds of this group, if that is your liking. Calendars are aggregated in a similar way into the Calendar Hub. This might not be appealing to most /. users (Facebook!? ugh!) but regular users do like it. The cloud usage is also excellent: most data is also available online from the M$ servers over a Live account (yeah, well.. that is a two edge sword), and they even include remote phone lock and wiping (which is a nice touch). The browser, IE, is actually quite good (hey, I was surprised too...), so are the email and calendar apps. The maps improved a lot with WP7.5, and the directions are EXCELLENT, I find them much more accurate than the ones I get in the iPhone (and those were quite good already). Voice recognition? if you use it (I don't), they had it before the iPhone. The lock screen is full of useful information, which I like, and the tiles provide a great overview of an app without opening it. The tiles home screen looks deceptively simple, but it can pack quite some information in one screen with the tile animations. The Office Mobile client is nice, including the One Note Mobile; all synchronize to the M$ cloud. The keyboard is one of the best I have used, and the support for multiple languages is fantastic (Android is very close here too when using additional keyboards). The Music player is surprisingly good. And if you are a developer, you will love the Touch Develop app from M$ that allows you to write scripts visually and explore the API of the OS.
Now to the not so nice things.. (and I have quite a list). The first one is this thing with text overflowing the screen to the right.. it a design decision that I cannot understand, but I have learnt to live with it (still don't like it). The aggregation sources are at the moment locked to what M$ offers: i.e. you cannot are your own sources. This means no CardDAV, no CalDAV, no LDAP.. which sucks for enterprise environments. You are also out of luck with VPNs, because they are not supported yet (sigh....). The email app is OK for normal users, but if you use folders heavily, or have thousands of emails in your inbox, it is not the best app (also, it only supports server-side search in M$ and Google accounts). Battery life is short (but is that the fault of the OS exclusively?), I have to carry 2 batteries when I am on the road. And then there is the lack of apps: it is improving, but it is nowhere near the level of the apps in iOS or Android. And finally... programming in WP7 can be really difficult, which I think is the biggest drawback.
For short, the platform is still not fully mature, and it is clearly a platform for everyday users. It covers the needs of a user that wants to stay in contact with his friends, uses Facebook, Xbox live, play games, checks email, tweets something, finds some directions in the map, etc. Power users and enterprise us
THe point was sometimes human interfaces that limit are helpful. This is not to say that more general purpose things are not more powerful. But python is definitely more readable between different authoring styles than other languages are. Sure you like braces in C but Do you like therefore braces like in LISP? Braces allow obfuscation at some point even if they offer power of expression.
As another example, why do you even bother with computer languages at all. All of computer science is a deliberately limited subset of physics. WHy not just use pure math. or program in binary.
limitations have their advantages.
The fact that some people fail to grasp that was my starting point. Thank you for making my point.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Microsoft has been burning bridges for decades, and now wants us to come and try out their fancy dancy MS-Bridge 10.0, while we inspect our scars.
Good Riddance, Bastards!
Table-ized A.I.
Despite AT&T's best efforts, their Windows phones do actually receive their updates (later than most carriers, but they get them). T-Mobile and most other carriers have pushed updates regularly. What "lies" do you feel you've been told about updates on WP7? The biggest lie that I've seen is that current Windows phones *won't* receive WP8; that's been stated nowhere official. Quite the opposite; MS has said they'll continue supporting the hardware for long enough that I can guarantee that at least the gen2 and probalby gen1 phones (many of which have the same specs) will indeed get WP8.
The only modern smartphone OS user who hsould have to expect "lies and contempt" is an Android user, and that's a fault of how much control Google lets the carriers and OEMs have. Require a service contract for a specific period of time, including updates, for them to use the Google services (Google Play, etc. - these are *not* part of the Android open-source projet, and must be licensed from Google for terms including payment, contrary to popular belief).
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
If the UI is the part of the OS that is crashing, then yes, a new UI will be a great update. However, as is usually the case with MS, adding a new UI when the base OS is crashing, is simply putting perfume on a turd.
How do you know that it was the "base OS" that was crashing for you in WinMo?
So far you seem to be particularly obsessed with the dialer crashing on you. But WinMo dialer is a userspace app, and is not part of the kernel or the base WinCE system...
And BTW, you question my experience? I'm 47 years old and have been programming for well over 30 years
I don't question your experience in general. I question your experience with Windows Phone. Actually, there's nothing to question, since you had yourself admitted that you have zero. Therefore, you're not qualified to engage in this discussion on a rational level. Of course, if you insist on showcasing your ignorance for the world to see, I'm happy to oblige.
You are, of course, free to hate WP without ever seen it, and say as much on Slashdot. Just don't pretend that it's anything other than your preconceived notion of what it is, having nothing to do with facts and such.
As a side note, for a 47 year old, you seem to love caps, exclamation marks, and "STFU" way too much. Furthermore, "they're products are junk" is properly spelled as "their products are junk", and "lot's" is properly spelled "lots". You might want to consider these minor presentation issues to make your recommendations carry more professional weight for the audience.
And you keep evading my main premise that on a Windows based phone THE PHONE APP CRASHES
It doesn't crash in Windows Phone. That it crashed for you ages ago in Windows Mobile has no relevance to this story or this thread. If that's really your main premise, you don't really have any to speak of.
Finally, who made you the SlashDot cop?
I don't have to be a "Slashdot cop" to ridicule someone deserving of ridicule by pointing out obvious flaws in his reasoning (or lack thereof). As noted earlier, you are, of course, free to keep posting to these threads if you wish to further embarrass yourself.
/troll
-- L8R, guitardood
1) It's controlled by Microsoft, who have a very well proven and consistent track record.
2) It's Windows. On a phone.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
a toy. I have an N9 and love it, the Lumia 800 took the same body and put a garbage OS on it. It's like dating a genius swimsuit model, then trying to date a dumb blonde. It doesn't work and you're only dissapointed at what was lost.
I really like the thing. That said, I still have an HP WinCE thingy because I can run Python 2.5 on it and if you have a WP7 phone you HAVE to try Microsoft's scripting IDE: 'Touch Develop' - You can write simple apps directly on the phone. Saved my sanity in many meetings. Other than the phone it's Ubuntu all the way for me, by the way - I've a reasonable rating on the help forum but I do quite like Unity, so I must be a bit wrong in the head.
"Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs," I said. "we have a protractor"
TFA is basically asking us what's our "beef" with Windows Phone
I have no beef with anything
I just don't want to get hit by a flying chair
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
UK is in Europe ???
Are you saying it's not?
How about their alienation of developers? Let's see. I have an idea for a 3D game I'd like to write for phones. What do I write it with?
1. iPhone: C++, OpenGL, (with a little Obj-C to call into the core code)
2. Android: C++, OpenGL, (with a little Java to call into the core code)
3. QNX-based phones: C++, OpenGL
4. Some Brew phones with good hardware: C++, OpenGL
5. Windows Phone 8: Oh, Sorry mate, you have to port it to C# and DirectX! Have fun with that!
Microsoft has gone and driven a wedge in the developers' world again, but this time they're on the wrong side of it. Who the hell is going to port their game to their exotic platform, when the same code can hit so many other mobile platforms?
The annoying thing is the Nokia phones that don't have MS WP7 are actually easier to use with an MS mail server. It's been a step backwards instead of the increased compatibility they imply is going to occur.
I've seen that before in something else, it does address the problem I laid out pretty well. I still prefer the menu on the top bar though as it gives lots of room for menu items plus common status adornments like the clock (which in Windows are all on the bottom bar).
On multiple monitors I do agree a menu bar at the top can be a little annoying if you have very big screens... but part of that is just positioning things intelligently so mostly you are not far away from the menu or in an app you don't use the menu often with.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
So, basically adapting your style of work to accommodate the desktop, not the other way around. I always have a problem with that, even though it is an option. I don't think I should have to, especially if there's no efficiency benefit.
If I had to pick one thing, I would have to say that it's how Microsoft doesn't seem to care. They seem to just have the same piece of software, giving it a facelift every few years, but still keeping the core shit the same. If they haven't caught on by now, I doubt they will. It's a backwards culture. That's why my prediction is that Windows phone will fail.
That's also NOT what happened. Judge found for the DOJ. Judge recommended MS be broken up. Judge went on camera calling MS something to the tune of "lying assholes" (imagine the judge being pissed after they were caught committing perjury multiple times, I know). MS appealed penalty and won.
Don't blame Bush. Blame Thomas Penfield Jackson and his inability to keep his damn mouth shut in front of the press.
I upgraded from a Samsung Galaxy to a Lumia 900 and I haven't looked back. Let's just say it is very easy to use and I don't have to constantly tweak it. The apps also seem much more polished (not to mention I have all the apps I had on my old phone with the exception of certain games). I also like it better than my wife's iPhone 4S but that doesn't mean it's a better device, I just never got used to that one button does all concept (I really like having a back key and a way to lock the phone).
No, just correct and annoyed.
"WP gave me the same feeling I got when I bought my first iBook, fired up OS X 10.1 and realized I had just been shifted up a decade."
Seriously? I bought my first iMac last year. That was when I realized just how tight the handcuffs really are. Just 3 weeks later I sold it and went back to Linux.
Seriously, it looks pretty, but using it just sucks. It is for people who do not yet have a workflow, and who are happy to be told how they must use a computer, and what they must use it for.
The bottom line is, if you can work with an apple pc, then great, buy one (unless you're happy with the way you currently work and don't see a need for change).
If you cannot work with one, then don't try to. Accept that what you have is better, because it is likely more flexible and allows you to do things your way.
OSX isn't flexible. That is both blessing and curse. A blessing to some who can change to suit the OS, but a curse to those of us who have grown up with an OS that we can change to suit us. I believe machines exist to benefit people, but Apple seem to think that people exist to benefit them.
I wonder if WP would be more successful if it was released earlier. Who knows?
This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
If Windows Phone were a wholly new brand it might stand a bigger chance; as it is, the general opinion of the brand has been negatively impacted by the pains Windows has inflicted on the world's users during the years. Everyone's been enduring Windows anyway and buying it because that's what everyone's software runs on, but that's an advantage Microsoft can't count on in the world of smartphones - in fact, this factor plays against them now.
In other words, Microsoft is reaping the well-deserved fruits of all the years of accumulated hatred and mistrust from its userbase.
If they knew it was going to make you wince just buying it, at least they had the common curtesy to name it after the act of withdrawing in pain.
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
No, WinMo (6.5 and below) sucks, and WP7 (7.0 and 7.5 - I don't know about 8.0) also sucks. But they suck for different reasons. Depending on which ones are more important to you, one may suck less than the other.
Me, I'll stick with my Galaxy Nexus. But keep an eye on WP8, too.
FTFY
24. Cannot stream audio from video playback to Bluetooth devices as A2DP profile is not implemented.
Incorrect. WP7.5 implements A2DP. All WP7 phones can stream audio using A2DP. Some older phones do not stream A2DP audio during video playback.
23. No way to stream audio to the majority of car audio systems as the most common Bluetooth rSAP profile is not implemented.
In my experience the majority of car audio systems use A2DP to stream music. rSAP is the remote SIM Access Profile, and I will confess to ignorance as to what SIM access has to do with streaming audio and I am ready to be educated.
Just like with Zune, Microsoft copied what's worst about their competition. I attribute it to cargo cult marketing.
They rely on the public SSL PKI. Any rogue SSL cert registrar can let someone generate a cert for any domain.
We' (Canadians) are not forced to get them, but we ARE forced to pay for them, whether we ask for the "free" upgrade every year or not.
The UK is to Europe as Florida is to TheSouth. Technically, geographically but culturally?
Waiting for an amusing sig.
Flipping tiles nauseate me. Camera button is right where I hold the phone when making a call. Camera button too sensitive. What genius came up with that? Not everyone is a tourist. I haven't yet figured out how to actually turn off a video. There is just a pause button. Same with music. Definately not intuitive. I constantly run into apps I'd like to have but which do not exist for WP. Calls do not end when the power button is used, so the call goes on and on and on, causing embarrassing voice mail. Put a few apps on the home screen and, as others have pointed out, you have to scroll forever. Tiles too big. I'm not blind. An entire screen column for a single small right arrow at the top right? Black space on right makes the home screen asymmetrical, which is disturbing to the human mind. Beauty in faces has been proven to be a matter of symmetry. News item: Nokia to lay off 10,000. Guess I chose wrong for my first "smart" phone.
E Proelio Veritas.
Just get a smartphone without data plan. My voice plan is even just 2G. Dirt cheap, and free WiFi is sufficiently available for when I really want to look something up.
I've had 3G for voice a few years ago, but the only difference I noticed is hotter phone & worse battery drain, and worse coverage (shop talked about better call quality - well I didn't hear the difference). I must add that coverage improved over time, and is good now.
Like a fish needs a bicycle
Maurice W. Hilarius Voice: (778) 347-9907
For now, we've got the "ultimate phablet" combo going - voice phones with 3G iPad, signed up for the iPad data plan last week while traveling, used it to look up maps we didn't really need while driving, whoever decided that glossy screens are a good idea in portable devices needs to stop being a vampire and try to use their product during the daytime.
I highly suspect that our 3G data plan will go unused about 27 days a month.
I can't comment on WP because I haven't cared to look at it. I saw Windows Mobile (and CE before that) fail to significantly improve over a period of many years and I got tired of waiting. How long was I supposed to wait for Microsoft to get it right? Why would I think they got it right this time, after what, almost 12 years of trying?
ExEn a windows mobile xna converter to Android and iOS makes me really like Windows Mobile as a development platform.
What's wrong with developing on Enyo then?
"Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
Is this question part of a Microsoft-sponsored grassroots publicity campaign (astroturfing)? They sent out a bunch of free phones, sponsored some KoolAid booths with carefully controlled tests and now I'm starting to see these sort of evangelism pop up all over, from third tier journalists to message boards. If MS wanted feedback from real people, they're about 3 years too late. Better to get that stuff BEFORE you write the OS, IMHO. > once you get to know it, windows phone works great Contrast to Apple's top-notch design where things work the way you expect them to without a learning curve. This is the same mentality that MS has had for years - their products work more or less fine if you only use them for the tasks that it was written for. For anything else, they are inferior. > slashdot .. irrational fear of windows
We're a fairly well-informed crowd, most are quite familiar not only with multiple versions of Windows, but better informed of the alternatives than your man on the street. Not all bias is irrational fear. Funny to hear that charge from an MS man. I'm waiting for a lawyer to jump in soon - I thought M$ held the patent on Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. :)
MacKenzie et al. and Meyer et al. merely show general Fitts law relationships for mice, and the others argue based on Fitts law but don't actually show anything.
The (undated) Polaroids are for the Mac's original tiny screen. Even if Apple's engineers actually measured performance on that (which I seriously doubt), you cannot generalize results from that to large screens or multi-screen setups.
So, looks like I was right: you haven't read any studies actually showing that Mac menus are faster.
For a decade I preferred Windows phones for the sync compatibility.
But, after Microsoft quit supporting Windows Mobile 5 while the phones were still being sold a s new in stores' I gave up and shifted to Android.
NRRPT/RCT
Let's put it this way. I work for a company based in London. Whenever we have to fill out forms that ask for a region, the regions are UK, Europe/Africa, Asia/Pacific, and Americas.
Mind you the UK is a lot closer to France than Toronto is to Sao Palo Brazil. But the first two are in separate "regions" under their nomenclature and the second two are in the same region.
For a Microsoft Pad to succeed it would have to not just be better than what else is out there, it has to be a lot better. A no brainer. Microsoft is a multi-billion dollar company and they COULD do that I suppose. However their track record sucks. I know I wouldn't even look at one because I would consider it a total waste of my time and I don't even own a pad from any of them. I just don't think they have the tallent. They also would need to ditch the current windows OS and get a real OS to power it. Something not in mode 0. Something like Unix underneath. Could happen. Stranger things have happened like {Obama was elected}|{Bush was elected, twice!}.
Anyone know how to enable this? Had it in Android Google Maps and miss it.
I'm new to app development, but WP7 is the most poorly documented (probably because it's new), ridiculously locked-down environment to code in I have yet suffered through. Things don't work that should due to intended security constraints, making it impossible to casually develop something in free time that might get made truly useful (read: monetized) later. Frustrating enough that I have decided to compete in the Android app space instead. It may be crowded, but at least I can do it.
What doesn't help either is that Nokia is laying off thousands in Europe.
So I should like that the small IM windows at the bottom left corner of my leftmost screen has its menu on my rightmost screen ?
I don't.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
Bush had NOTHING to do with MSFT winning its appeal of Judge Jackson's order, you partisan troll.
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
Windows Phone?
Windows Phone!
Zune 2!!!
From the depths of Hell I shall spit at Thee!
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --