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Ask Slashdot: What's the Best Place To Relocate?
New submitter tsakas writes: "I am an IT researcher from southern Europe looking for a good place to relocate. Markets are pulling the teeth out of the strong European countries by destroying the south. The U.S. is in debt and there is no way of telling how long this can go on. China and India are on the rise. Brazil and Australia are looking good. The question: Which city would you choose to go and start a family if you were to stay there for a) 5, b) 10 and c) 20 years?"
Earth is screwed
Google Fiber
The US - still the best place to live and the whole "debt" issue is really not a huge deal.
Canada is the place to be IMHO. With the stable economy, the speedy rise of the IT sector and easy Permanent Residence options, it should be your best bet, both in the short and the long run.
Stay where you are. "I believe I have the nondisprovable ability to predict worldwide economic trends" is a terrible reason to move.
http://www.openmint.net/masdar-city-green-living-experiment Masdar is the worlds first attempt at a completely energy neutral city.
As a person who was born in one country, brought up in a second, did college in a third, married a woman in a fourth, and when back to live in the country I did college in, I do not belong anywhere. I would move to any country that provided me with an opportunity I was interested in. There are stupid immigration hurdles and such you have to deal with, and those are artificial constructs that we have created to slow the movement of people like me.
There is a saying in my parent's tongue. I am a pigeon, I fly wherever the seeds are. You should do that too.
China and India are on the rise. Brazil and Australia are looking good.
Can you speak the language? What are the immigration policies of these countries?
It depends on what you value. You're from "Southern Europe". That's semi-specific. What sort of place are you looking for? Good schools? What kind of community do you want? What kind of language skills do you have and/or are willing to acquire? What sort of culture are you looking for?
Plus, your economic analysis is overly simplistic:
The U.S. is in debt and there is no way of telling how long this can go on.
If the US experiences a major economic collapse, there is no place in the world where you won't feel the effects of that. Or at least, no place in the world where you can hold a job as an "IT researcher".
William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
But you said raising a family.
This means "where would you go so your kids will have the best opportunities in their lifetimes."
Unless money to travel and attend college abroad is no object, this requires a much longer time horizon than 20 years.
Unfortunately, any reasonably precise prediction of where the world - or any part of it - will be politically and socially 20+ years from now has a high margin of uncertainty.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I don't think you actual understand the economic issue.
I suspect you don't understand the EU's issue on a big scale either.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
"Markets are pulling the teeth out of the strong European countries by destroying the south."
Guess they aren't that strong are they?
Jeez, go wherever you want. Move to Cuba, they have 100% free health insurance there.
Go to Copenhagen. You get enterprising neigbours like Copenhagen Suborbitals and the anarchist hippies of Christiania. :P
Spoken like a true American: one who hasn't ever been outside the country, yet speaks as if he has.
Any inhabited continent has a future except Europe and Africa, and I'm not sure about Africa.
Seriously. Texas. And don't believe the haters. It is a great place to raise a family and if you move to the major Urban centers you will find a good mix of conservative government and libertarian social values. Austin is my home and will remain my home for a long time to come.
You can choose to relocate or to start a family and accept jobs in local area. Long distance relocation does not work well with families, if you are not from nomad culture.
I live in Mexico doing interactive systems. I like Brazil. Agree there is opportunity there for IT. If moving to another country Brazil will be my first choice.
1: Most Canadian cities. Canada does not have the economic ups and downs that other countries have, crime is low (you don't need multiple firearms on you just to go get six-pack of beer), and the cities are safe to have families in, unlike US cities where people are always in a flight mode.
2: Scandinavian countries. They also don't have the boom cycles, but they are stable and very safe places to settle down in.
3: Some areas in the US. Unlike TV, the US isn't a place where you have to have eight machine guns on your SUV as you plod along into a Mad Max-like sunrise on your way to work. Vermont is an example of a place you can settle in, and not worry about safety, for example.
If I were forced to choose a country, I'd probably go Sweden or Canada. Germany is also good.
It's expensive and time consuming with unpredictable returns.
I relocated from Calgary, Canada to Phoenix, Arizona about 5 years ago almost entirely for the AZ weather, which I love. I absolutely can't stand the backward politics and social attitudes here though. I too am looking for possible alternatives in the future. I would like to find somewhere with consistently warm weather, progressive social and political attitudes, and reasonable immigration policies for a Data Analyst with a Master's degree. Does such a place exist?
No matter where you look, each location will have its own fair share of problems. Rather then picking a location based on economics and political issues, pick a location where you will be happy.
Now obviously, being happy is contingent on being employed and being able to live where you choose, but I guarantee you one thing, following the money does not always work.
I came, I conquered, I coredumped
Twin Cities (Minneapolis & Saint Paul) Minnesota. Hands down. Big IT market that is growing, middle of the continent, near the Canadian border, more fresh water lakes than any other place on the planet. Very progressive populace with excellent education and employment opportunities. Only real problem is a terrible fucking transportation system but we are trying to fix that.
Please tell NO ONE. ;)
Ann Arbor, 'cause that's where Slashdot be.
org.slashdot.post.SignatureNotFoundException: ewg
Regardless of what order you list the cities and/or countries today, you would have a completely different list in 5, again in 10 and yet another in 20. I'd say your pick should be based on the culture you're most comfortable with.
Personally, I'd stay the heck away from India and China. I would leave if I were in either place. Both countries have serious infrastructure issues. And I would not want to live in a slave state ( China ), regardless if they seem to be opening up. That is only for the well connected. The working slobs have it worse than anywhere else in the wolrd. Hong Kong is an exception, but that is slowly fading.
If you are just concerned about the economy, then go to China. They only care about money, not about anything else.
If you just care about happiness, go to Northern Europe. Denmark has one of the happiest populations.
In general, Canada has 90% of the benefits of US, with the minor penalties of a worse current economy (but less problems on the horizon), colder weather, and less potential upside.
If you have the courage to take risks, then got o US. Pick the right state - the western ones (Alaska -> California) and Colorado all have major things going for them. Frankly while the downside is higher here in the USA, so is the upside, as it has always been.
Stay in Southern Europe!
I would say stay in a "first world" country to raise your children. Then travel the world from there. The other way around is impossible.
http://twitter.com/bash_history
It always works when playing Risk. They speak English. I'm set.
Seriously, unless you're prepared for a radical culture shift, you need to stay close to home or move to a country that speaks the same language. I do not want to be stuck in Hong Kong trying to make sense out of some Asian-British hybrid laws with a PRC cherry on top. Singapore? I'd probably look at somebody the wrong way, get tossed in jail, and caned to death. No thanks. Rich bastards who move to places like that will probably get what they deserve.
Good weather. Anglophone. Fun people. Healthy culture. Melbourne was just voted the most livable city in the world again. Economy booming because of natural resources being mined out of the ground and sent to China. All you really need to adapt to is driving on the left.
I hear what others say about Scandinavia, and those countries truly have their shit together, but I'd find the long dark winters to be very depressing.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
One thing you have to keep in mind that China and India "on the rise" are still far worse off than US and Europe. There's no guarantee they'll be better in 20 years even if they sustain that rise, which they won't necessarily do - China in particular has a pretty nasty bubble ready to burst.
I'd stick to developed countries for the simple reason that you get some basic guarantees there that you don't in the third world should things go very wrong. For the same reasons I'd avoid US long-term - it's a good place to earn money during the productive period of your career, but not so good to retire in. If you're already in Europe, it's probably easier to go for one of the better developed countries there as they're more likely to weather the storms - Germany or France are two obvious destinations. Then there's Scandinavia - Finland looks surprisingly decent on many counts if you're willing to live with the weather.
If you are really bent on seeking something outside of Europe, consider Canada - a saner version of US on so many counts, especially economy wise. And you still have US nearby, which is convenient for shopping and some other things. Very easy to immigrate to, as well. Australia is also a very decent option, and if you're a believer in China long-term, you should consider them for the simple reason that it's in the same region and China is their major trade partner.
Relocate to the first ring suburbs around Buffalo, NY, USA. Many of the schools outside of the city are top-notch. communities have deep rooted residents that care about the town/village they live in.
You listed very real problems with the economy in Europe and the US. China, India, and Brazil have real growing pains. It seems that wherever PEOPLE live, there are problems! So the thing to do is go live on the moon! No crime, no national debt, no housing crisis, no politics, no protests. Sounds ideal to me!
...has actual real-world value but if you have bona fide IT infrastructure and/or development skills, the San Francisco Bay Area is probably the hottest IT job market in the US right and possibly the world. The economy is in the tank in the rest of the country but the Bay Area is doing pretty well and the VC investment market here is still hot with a lot of "sugar water" investments still going on robustly.
That said, the Bay Area is generally really, really expensive, especially in San Francisco so there will be considerable sticker-shock for rents. If you're single and can live with 2-3+ more people, you could save quite a bit though and you could ride mass transit which is quite good in the Bay (not as good as NYC and Chicago but compared to the rest of California it's very good). Lower Peninsula and South Bay/Silicon Valley is also expensive but not quite as bad as SF.
Other than that Seattle, NYC (more expensive - WAY more expensive than anywhere in the world, save perhaps London, Paris metro areas), Chicago, Dallas, Austin, Washington DC... all are decent job markets for IT.
Also not sure how hard it is to get visa sponsorship. Probably not so easy. Glad I'm a citizen and already live in the Bay Area.
It'll just go through a period of inflation, which will devalue the dollar and those who bought bonds in the US will be screwed.
It's knowing how the game is played.
Move to California, it's still a cool place and a lot is still being done here.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I have a strong feeling the submitter tsakas is from Greece ;)
I feel his pain, I am from Portugal and am thinking exactly the same - and raise the same question.
I can say that Brazil, although has a huge potential, has two major problems that don't seem to have a short/mid term solution: ...), where most IT jobs are, are dangerous to live in due to the social-economic differences.
- The major cities (São Paulo, Rio de Janeiro,
- There is still a lot of corruption.
On a personal note, from those choices i would not like to live in China or India generally due to the low standards they still have and government type (China).
What's the Best Place To Relocate?
That's a tough question. Most areas are heavily acclimated to their current location. Anything non-trivial would have to swapped with something else, rather than simply relocated. Swapping even geographic close regions like North and South Dakota could have drastic unforeseen consequences; certainly swapping larger areas like France and Spain are right out. Perhaps a building or ballpark would be a good candidate for relocation, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort.
Any ideas /. ?
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
why are you relocating? if you fear for the wellbeing of your family you should know the health insurance for american workers is generally inferior to that of many european nations especially when considering their family coverage. The public education is routinely inferior as well, and 40 hours per week for tech workers is conservative in many cases. You arent going to see much more than 1-2 weeks of vacation in the first year in the states, and several of the southern states are sadly virulently xenophobic.
can you clarify on what you mean by markets pulling the teeth out of strong european countries? You make it seem like you've simply become jaded by a spate of recent financial reforms. Strong Europeans are the backbone of strong European countries, so if you and others leave it simply leaves more room to turn the EU into a libertarian dystopia.
Good people go to bed earlier.
Finland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN2ZJBh92SM
I would choose somewhere with some combination of relative prosperity, underpopulation, and social democratic values: Scandinavia, Canada, New Zealand.
Developing countries, and to some extent the US, are like the Wild West - they're fantastic as long as you're wealthy to buy your way out of the inherent instability.
A good balance of the lifestyles of US/Europe and the economy/growth of Australia/Brazil. And depending on which European country you are coming from immigration may be fairly easy (relatively speaking).
Our PM/Government is pretty fucked up at the moment, and when that happens we tend to kiss the USA's ass a lot, but Harper only has a few years left and then things should go back to normal again :)
If you can do it, try to live in one of the cities that is 30 to 60 minutes outside a major city (for Canada, that is pretty much the capitals of the ten provinces) and you'll have cheap living costs (buy a three bedroom house for under $100K US easy) but still have all the services/work of the nearby city. For most big cities in Europe and US the 30-60 minute rural (not packed like rats on the highway) commute is less than the in-city commute even! If you have time, check city/province/country statistics for things like quality of life, disposable income(more important than actual income), and quality of the environment. One trick however, becarful of the "best city in..." type stats, as they tend to not consider families important (so stats like "Number of off lease dog parks" is rated higher than "number of kid parks".
In any case, have fun, do your research and then enjoy the experience, I know my family and I did when we did it :)
Singapore. I worked there for two weeks at the Marina Bay Sands project. English is the primary language, the area is beautiful and clean. Hated coming home. I'd still move my wife and kids there in a second.
The question: Which city would you choose to go and start a family
Not a damn one of them; Green Acres is the place for me.
IMO, living in close proximity to thousands (even hundreds, really) of other humans is not a desirable situation to be in, and a disaster waiting to happen.
Then again, I'm a born-and-bred 'country boy,' so of course YMMV.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
here's how I would do it: first 5 years in US, which probably won't collapse before then, and if it gets close, we'll just hornswoggle the Chinese into buying a bunch of movie studios like we did with the Japanese. Next 10 years in China. Make sure you pick up Mandarin. Parlay your ability to quote verbatim the scripts of popular 80's action movies into a career as executive of a floundering movie studio. Walk out of the office one day saying "I'll be back." Never go back. Next 20 years in Brazil, where you'll leverage your Chinese connections to become a major wheeler dealer in a revival of the opium trade. The most important thing is to leave no trace as you proceed. You don't want families 1.0 or 2.0 paying you and Conchita an unexpected visit in your Sau Paulo hacienda.
how many pairs of boxer shorts should you own?
Want a country that's not in debt? Your choices are Macau, Taiwan, and Liechtenstein. Even the Vatican is in debt:
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jul/05/business/la-fi-mo-vatican-deficit-20120705
The economy here isn't bad at all and it's quite peaceful, even in the capital Stockholm. :)
Sweden's definitely a great place to start a family as the society do a lot for the parents (compared to many countries).
I moved there a year ago and I have no regret at all
Oh, and Swedish isn't that difficult to learn at all, you'll be just fine speaking English until you learn it!
Bonus: if you haven't found a spouse yet, I can say that there are some really beautiful girls here too ;)
As an IT researcher, one would think living where ever you want, working from home, and telecommuting would be the ideal for family life. Let me put it another way. There is a telecommuting homomorphism between the set of the best places to live and the set of best place to live for an IT researcher.
Sounds like you are basing your decisions on a glance at the financial section of a magazine rack...
"Trouble in Europe"? Oh no! Better get out of here!
"Trouble in The US"! Oh no! Better not move there!
"Indonesia at a crossroads" Hmm, sounds promising!
Try opening the thing up next time and actually read what's going on. Then take the "am I ready to live in am emerging market?" quiz:
Do you like to have to bribe your way around the local bureaucracy?
Do you like to live within a mile of crushing poverty?
Do you like to endure social, natural, and economic crises?
If you answered yes to all of these, then yes an emerging market is for you (i.e. Brazil, China, India, etc). If you answered no to any of them, stay in a Western country. Keep your skills current and if the place goes downhill, just relocate again. Hell, you did it once, right?
Depending on how successful you've been and what kind of house you can afford, lifestyle, food, climate, industry rocks.
I just move to wherever Slashdot puts inside of the string "Is"..."the next Silicon Valley?" I have a script set up to buy airline tickets and everything. Don't miss out!
Norway; no debt, high salaries, increasing oil production.
If you can land a job in the offshore sector (oil), you have basically made it. Make sure that you done your paperwork beforehand though. And be prepared for the living expenses, but with a good income that won't be a problem.
Relevant article: http://www.invest.vic.gov.au/20120814-melbourne-named-most-liveable-city-in-the-world-again
I say stay here and loot when the U.S. Economy crashes.
We are not. No education to speak of, a government which is making the same mistakes which resulted in the European crisis, lots of crime and violence. Also we are more and more becoming an exporter of commodities, because our tax system is totally regressive and cumulative, working against manufacturing and services by making everything very, very expensive — and we have lower salaries than those of the First World.
I lived in Europe. Only reason I did not stay was that I was not allowed to.
Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
If you're looking 20 years ahead you might want to factor in the likely climate changes. Most models indicate that many regions will be hit with extreme weather either in the form of droughts, extreme storm events or adversely affected by sea level changes. According to a climate change vulnerability study done by Maplecroft (http://maplecroft.com/), Australia and Bangladesh are two places that may feel the effects of climate change very strongly. Canada may be a good place to adapt to these changes.
Living in a foreign place can be pretty lonely. It's no surprise that people are of the opinion that their own country is one of the best places to live. It's not a uniquely American phenomena. The handful of Frenchmen I know hold the same view of their homeland (save one, who actually like the US better than France).
I think it takes a certain personality to enjoy travel and new places. Some of us are homebodies, and I think it is unreasonable to view us as backwards or ignorant of the world.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
I'd consider Germany (Luxemburg), England, New Zealand and Australia. And here in the Czech Republic it's not that bad either :-) .
Germany is close, not only geographically, but also culturally. It's generally relatively easy to get a well paid (compared to CZ) technical job there and the proximity to "home" - i.e. broader family and friends is good too. England ditto.
New Zealand is generally considered "paradise" here, so it's obvious choice :-) . NZ and Australia are beautifully "far" from the problems here, although I bet they have their share of problems. At least they are well developed and not that culturally distant. Moreover it should be relativelly easy to actually move there, due to immigration politics.
All of these countries are English speaking except Germany, where everyone speaks English well, which is important.
for a), b), and c).
The only mark against it is the lack of individual freedoms, but if southern europe is fine then you won't mind them (and they in the scheme of things the US actively removing the alternative option anyway).
Based on the name and the comments; our southern European friend must be from Greece.
Based on professional experience equivalent and education, it matters greatly where you come from, if you speak the language, your aspirations and YOUR ATTITUDE.
In a few short sentences you have displayed some significant bias and a clear lack of understanding, simplifying a LOT of global economic issues. As a prospective employer, I would move on to another candidate who is a bit more open-minded and rational. Yes, the BRIC countries are in the rise. What skills do you have to offer that they do not have internally? Research and Development jobs can be had, yet the standard of living can vary greatly.
I could suggest some other places and i don't think that you would be a good fit for those.
Norway is the place to go. We are doped on oil and the party isnt over for a few more decades.
Besides of the oil the women are beatuiful and everything else is pretty much perfect. Our biggest complaints are if we have to be in a queue on the road for more than three minutes.
Look it up.
Cheers
the best place to relocate is one that is small and uninhabited. small because it can fit in the trunk of your car. uninhabited so there aren't any protests.
I moved to the San Francisco bay area last year and I'm loving it. Things to add to what AC said:
* Good weather.
* There is something here for everyone. If you like quiet, you can live in the suburbs. If you like more lively, you can live in one of the cities. You can go surfing and skiing on the same day.
* Yes, house and groceries are expensive. On the bright side, if you work for any of the tech companies, you will easily be able to afford things.
* Regarding visas: If you get a job with one of the larger tech companies, they will sponsor your visa. It may take a while before visas become available, though, as there is a quota.
* Companies here are definitely looking for more good people to hire, so if you have the skills they need, your chances of getting here are pretty good.
I don't know about the other places that have been mentioned, so I'll save the commenting on those to people who actually live there.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
I hail from Australia, and always felt that I was in a very small country with limited opportunities, despite everything going for it. Probably a fantastic country to raise kids or retire, but the economy isn't as big, and there aren't as many opportunities as, say, the US or UK.
I wanted out, because I wanted to swim in a bigger pond. It was a tossup between the US and the UK, and because I had an easy visa (something you might like to consider), I just went to London. The UK has big social problems (even more than the US, it has a huge, feral, festering underclass, and I get the impression that the UK is a *BAD* place to be down on your luck), but if you're good at what you do, you can probably afford to live in a good areas and send your kids to decent schools and generally stay away from all the shit. London is a huge, bustling, dynamic place that's fairly close by, and there's something here for just about everyone (unless you're poor, of course).
You're southern European, as you say, so don't forget that you have EU treaty rights. There are plenty of options for relocation within Europe.
That said, you wouldn't want to retire here. I certainly don't plan on sticking around past retirement.
Calgary, Alberta - Just located the world's greatest source of hydrocarbons near here on top of the second largest heavy oil deposits in the world. Coupled with great opportunity for growth in both tourism and agriculture. This city is one of the safest bets. Not too far from Vancouver and the sea as well. Perth Australia - Australia hasn't had a recession in 50 years. Perth is isolated both geographically and politically from most of the destructive currents on our planet, has significant energy deposits in the are, so it's probably a pretty safe bet. Good climate too. If global civilization collapses this is a possible re-seed point of civilization. North Dakota. - Low unemployment, booming economy. Pittsburgh PA - Low unemployment, booming (relatively to res of US) economy, massive sources of clean water, cheap place to live. Russian border regions around china - Probably a good area to locate economically. May have to worry about wars caused by demographics. Halifax Nova Scotia - Stable climate, place is isolated, local stocks of food.
1st of all: If I would want to start a family I wouldn't plan to go anywhere for less than 20 years. Times are unruly enough as it is. With children you want a good school, a good community and - most important of all - a good wife and her our yours or both families near by. Everything else comes second!
If you want to start a family you should even consider a career change if that is required to provide for the other things mentioned above. The family will be your primary fullfillment, not the job, so you might as well work as a bricklayer, provided the income is enough. Also factor in: Free housing or easy real estate from your family or in-laws, quality of life, happiness of wife (where does she want to live and raise children) etc. All of these are *way* more important than monetary income. Especially in times like these.
If I'd start a family again, I'd move together with my girlfriend in the town she lives, simply because her career is way more solid than mine right now. And I wouldn't care if I were the main caregiver to children and would be driving a dump-truck on the side. Be prepared to do that aswell if your future wife turns out to be the vice-exec of some uprising company or having and wanting to keep a more stable career than you aparently have right now.
2.) If you want to earn money in IT and are prepared to leave everything behind, you do the full monty and should get prepared to move anywhere within a few weeks notice, at any time and occasion. Singapur, Silicon Valley, Moskow, Dubai perhaps and maybe some high-polpulation areas in china are where the partys at right now. Live out of the suitcase or in microapparments for the next 15 years, rake in some stable cash or real estate and buy/build a home for your old age.
3.) If you aren't prepared to go full-on cyberpunk and move around the globe for the rest of your working career you should stay put right where you are and adapt. If the Euro goes belly-up and the world finally notices that the US dollar isn't worth the paper its printed on then you'll be glad if you've got some contacts to a local farmer and some real-estate and a small shed on it somewhere in southern europe. And maybe some solar panels to power your computers. I'd be happy if I had that. I'm living in a single room sharing flat with 6 people in Germany and right now things aren't looking up, even for an expert like me. Living expenses are through the roof, the IT staff shortage is nothing but a legend to keep wages at the 2002 minimum and inflation is ramping up allready.
Bottom line: Move for the family you want to start, and *only* for that, go fully international and prepare to relocate to Timbuktu if the money and/or the benefits package is right or stay put, get by somehow and prepare for some elongated worldwide economic downtime.
My 2 cents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Well,
There isn't a city I'd care to live in these days.. anywhere.. for any amount of time..
I'd say find a nice piece of acreage, with decent internet connectivity, and live as far from the crowds as possible while still making a living.
Hell, find a marina w/ decent net access and live a a good sized blue-water capable boat, and cast off when things get crazy...
If neither of the above appeal to you, a small town or suburb, can be nice.. There are small towns in Italy I wouldn't mind moving to, even now..
Good luck.
valuable country comparison info http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk
Physical Health
People in more equal societies live longer, a smaller proportion of children die in infancy and self-rated health is better. Find out more.
Mental Health
People in more equal societies are far less likely to experience mental illness. Find out more.
Drug Abuse
People in more equal societies are less likely to use illegal drugs. Find out more.
Education
Children do better at school in more equal societies. Find out more.
Imprisonment
Unequal societies are harsher, they imprison a higher proportion of people. Find out more.
Obesity
Obesity is less common in more equal societies. Find out more.
Social Mobility
There is more social mobility in more equal societies. Find out more.
Trust and Community Life
Communities are more cohesive and people trust each other more in more equal societies. Find out more.
Violence
Homicide rates are lower and children experience less violence in more equal societies. Find out more.
Teenage Births
Teenage motherhood is less common in more equal societies. Find out more.
Child Well-being
Unicef measures of child well-being are better in more equal societies. Find out more.
Equality not Growth
Further economic growth will not improve our health or well-being. For a better quality of life we need greater income equality. Find out more.
Rich and Poor Countries
More equal societies spend a higher proportion their income on overseas aid and perform better on the Global Peace Index. Find out more.
Equality and Global Warming
Inequality fuels status competition, individualism and consumerism. It makes it harder to gain public support for policies to reduce global warming. Find out more.
Evidence: Social Mobility http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/why/evidence/social-mobility
Why More Equality? http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/why
The evidence in detail: http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/why/evidence
Well, there isn't a perfect answer, because as others have mentioned the list would be another one in five years, or in ten, and so on. Basically if you live in southern europe, you have a lot of "up" to go to, thinking about places that are better choices financially, politically, to raise families in or just to have a tech career in. You should consider the next thing: how hard is it going to be to emigrate?
If you are within the EU, you can pack your bags and drive to another EU country, get a place to live, and you basically only have to sign some papers within three months and get a job. That's it. The simplicity of this process compared to having to get a job in advance, apply for residency and work permits with the help of your employer, and all that shite that you'd have to do in most other places makes it a huge advantage. So the question then becomes, what's the most stable economy in EU? Well, none of them, because they're all in the EU.
I'm from Sweden myself, and I'm considering moving elsewhere in the EU later, for other reasons, so I have other concerns... however for you, I'd recommend scandinavia. Specifically because if you move to Sweden for instance, and then live here for a while, getting a swedish citizenship... then you can move to Norway afterwards through the agreements that the scandinavian countries has with each other. Norway has their own oil money, good stable finances, beautiful nature, and all that, and are not in the EU. If your worst worry is financial collapse, then that's probably a decent place to be. You might be able to move there directly of course, but not as easily.
I suppose you could also move to the border of Sweden and work in Norway - a lot of people around here do that. Better pay, lower living costs.
But there's no magic bullet... you're going to have to weigh the pros and cons here. For all you know in 20 years the place you live might be the financial hub of europe.
source:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/9475307/London-slips-down-list-of-best-cities-despite-glorious-Olympics.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_most_livable_cities
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Speaking for my church.
We don't have the recession, we don't have the climate problem, we don't have gun, neither any strong social/cultural problem.
We do have a strong IT/software development infrastructure from aerospace to game field or financial institution.
We are a multilingual and multicultural city, you can find food and language from anywhere around the globe here.
We do have apartment or house that doesn't ask you a arm.
We do have nice commuting infrastructure, the metro (subway) are underground, some apartment building and office building have direct access to the metro... so you don't have to but your nose outside during the cold day of the winter or the hot day of the summer.
We have a unique family policy that put the children as a societal value (6-8 month of parental care for a new birth, cheap children gardening, real restaurant with children place...)
In the city of Montreal, you will find a lot of natural park and children park.
Park are big enough to do mountain bike, skying, and so on....
Lot of Europeans people work in the IT field in Montreal, you will not look that strange...
It's easy to have the canadien residence for a european
If you have a diploma from a know european university, you will have a job faster than the canadian residence.
Ceci n'est pas une Signature !
I'm Brazilian and I started working from home recently. Since my wife and I don't like they city we're currently living in, we decided to do some research and find a city where we would like to move to (still inside Brazil). If you can read portuguese, you might find our announcement and the criteria we've used useful: https://plus.google.com/112051803418632798341/posts/BTDpsC9Enta
I have plenty of friends who moved from Europe to Brazil. If you're single, you'll probably enjoy it for quite some time, and you'll probably have fun no matter which part of the country you move to. If you have wife and/or kids, you should be extra extra careful when selecting a city or region to move to. Brazil is huge and the difference in quality of living vary a lot between the different regions. And pay attention: the poorest areas usually have the best offers in the tech field (mostly due to tax incentivies for the tech companies).
Good luck.
even before the recent news of dramatic thaw, i wanted to move to greenland. i knew it would eventually thaw due to global warming, i just didn't know it would be this quick.
Markets are pulling the teeth out of the strong European countries by destroying the south.
Markets would have no power over the southern countries if they didn't keep going into debt. If Spain didn't need to keep borrowing, then a 7% interest rate wouldn't matter to them.
The US economy may be faltering, but as others have said a full economic collapse in the US would be felt everywhere. So move to San Diego, where the weather is perfect nearly year round (http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/sgx/climate/san-san-month.htm) and the job market for techies is good (a bit out of date but still fairly true: http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2011/feb/12/why-san-diego-tech-companies-cant-fill-thousands-j/). It's a beautiful place, close to Mexico, two hours from LA and five hours from Vegas.
The most important part to start a family is the one you start it with. The values of a family are the family, not the size of the house.
See that you have a job that allows you to be with them instead of working all the time.
Wherever you go, there will be upsides and downsides. When you just arrive, all will be great, until you start to miss small things, like food. Also: have an open mind and try not to compare how things are done differently then what you are used to.
And once you have a family, don't move again after they are 12. That is when they will start their own youth and memories. It is not nice moving away at hat age from the comfort of their world.
I know people from all over the world. My family lived all over the world and only after a lifetime can you say if you lived a good life.
If you need a change for yourself, moving inside your country might be refreshing enough to give yourself the boost you need.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Be careful... being in debt is not good for anybody. Mexico lost good bunch of his territory partly because it was in debt with the US and other countries; that sparked a war, and waging any war is costly: if you're in debt and willing to default and to fight is like shooting yourself in the foot.
It's just better not to owe anything. You end up paying one way or the other.
The better question is where can I relocate and survive outsourcing? Outsourcing is the number one threat to job stability no matter what country you are in. When I was younger I thought it was a problem with job being outsourced from more expensive northern states to cheaper southern states - it was. As I grew older I learned that was just the tip of the iceberg and that outsourcing meant you were competing against people all over the world. Outsourcing means that your job can be sent all over the world.
It doesn't matter where you go, you will face the same problems. Not only that you will also face all of the challenges of being an immigrant. Over the years I have talked with IT people from places like India and even there they outsource their jobs to other firms.
The bottom line is that you have to find a job that is difficult to outsource. There are ways to do this, for example find a job that can't be outsourced out of the country for national security reasons. Find a job that involves working directly with people and requires face to face interaction as a consultant. Find a job that requires your presence and not your skills.
You can be replaced, and companies will spend a fortune to do do it because in the long run they /perceive/ that they will save an even larger fortune by doing so.
Good luck!
If you are leaving Europe, I guess your best bet is US, Canada, Australia, Japan, Israel, etc.. Whichever you can get a job in before you leave. The high pay and first world conditions make any other place look like a retirement location. Lots of star Israeli programmers manage to get jobs here in the US before moving over, for example. US debt problems are pretty meaningless. Even if it meant a bad economy in a decade, the tech economy is hot now, so come collect your money and leave later.
The US is still a great place to live, but assuming you are part of the new trend of US haters, I would recommend you look at the following places:
1) Vancouver, Canada
2) Japan (one of the non-irradiated sections)
3) Norway
4) New Zealand
5) Switzerland
But those would be my preferences, yours may differ.
I think I've read stories about people from just about anywhere feeling the need to move in order to escape bad economic conditions. You hear a lot about people bringing up Australia or Germany. I don't see any long-term scenario in which other countries of the world are flailing but Germany and Australia are thriving. Economies are too interdependent these days.
One should choose a city where they have the strongest base of support from family and friends. If thinks get worse, you will need to rely on those people.
I can promise you that the God of War has a huge following of mostly adolescent males...
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
It is in Europe but not in the EU. ;-)
2.8% unemployment rate! Highest salaries in the world. Health insurance, pension it is all there! US people would call it a communistic country though
And it is a nice and very safe place to live (except if your name is Polanski...).
The US might have a decently high unemployment rate right now, but in IT it's quite low. IT jobs are expanding very rapidly here, and I don't think that outsourcing has put a dent in it. In particular, Seattle and San Francisco are great places to be, with oodles of jobs, high quality of life, lots of diversity, and a very educated populace.
Have you considered Iran? Beautiful country, rich in natural resources. When you get there, you want to talk to a guy named Ahmadinejad. When you find him, tell him Benjamin Netanyahu sent you. I am sure he will hook you up with some free room and board for a while.
All the houses are crap and Mike Holmes is going a round fixing them ONE AT A TIME!!!
The deficit, as bad as it is, is not even close to reaching Armageddon proportions. Viewed as a percentage of GDP, our debt isn't even that high. The deficit itself is less of a problem than the inability of anybody to confront the problem honestly. And yes, I include Paul Ryan, who refuses to look at our biggest black hole for fiscal waste, the military. Jeez, even if you're a hawk, doesn't it bother you that we spend more on defense than the rest of the planet combined?
But even if I'm wrong, and the U.S. is on the verge of economic collapse, consider this: if we go down, we're certainly taking everybody with us. We're still the center of the world economy, and everybody trades with us. If the U.S. market disappeared, there'd be a global crash that would make 1929 look like a hiccup
So if you're worried about the imminent collapse of the U.S. economy, I'd suggest going to a remote location and learning to survive as a subsistence farmer. And if you're not willing to go that drastic, you might as well not worry about it.
I live in Canada and like it a lot. My family emigrated here from South Africa when I was 11, and Canada has been very good to me. It's sort of like the USA, only with slightly less polarized politics and slightly more sane social policies.
I live in Ottawa and it does get rather cold in the winter. But hey, global warming's fixing that... the last few winters have been mild. :)
An additional question on the "Am I ready to live in an emerging market?" quiz:
Do you mind dodging gunfire?
(That's not an everyday problem in all emerging markets, but it's enough of one in many of them that's it's worth mentioning, and being a relatively wealthy person is likely to make you a target.)
I am officially gone from
Don't hold back, kid. Give that strawman everything you've got.
1.) very reasonable priced health care ! (contributions will be transfered by your employer to the insurance company from your salary)
- the health care insurance company is not allowed to pick, they have to take anybody
2.) good job market
3.) reasonable priced rent
4.) you can mostly get along with speaking english,
but learning german is not that hard,
Example: that iranian young women whose face pic was taken from facebook by western media due to a name glitch, she was prosecuted by the mullahs,
got asylum here and after only one and a half year she is fluent and speaks execelent, she was on radio last week.
If you want to learn german the national public radio (not npr) has a livestream,
http://www.dradio.de/
you can also find places on the internet where you can watch our exported tv series ("Der Tatort" which translates as "The Crime Scene" or "Derrek" these got even dubbed with japanese language for Japan of course!!)
5.) state forced sponsored pension (will be transfered by your employer as part of your salary) after your 67 birth day these insurance benefits will be paid
6.) disabled persons & families are last to be fired (workers rights)
7.) strong unions
8.) from north to south, funny speaking people
9.) reasonable wages
When you negotiate your salary keep taxes and other things in mind (~%43 will be subtracted from your salary) so just add it beforehand !
10.) IT, Tech & Engineering Jobs
I love my country so I'd like to present my country to people in this world, european, african, asian, indian.
Think of finding a job ?
-> Try Germany!
If by "Europe" is doing badly you must surely mean the Eurozone. Unemployment in Norway/Sweden/even formerly bankrupt Iceland is very good. If you're having kids, the 2 months mandatory paternity leave in Sweden would be nice. You'd get to spend time with your kids and not have to work all the time and it allows your spouse to keep a career too. The governments themselves are very stable with the lowest levels of corruption in the world (if only Greece could say the same!), allowing the high tax rate to give you a decent rate of return on services you receive.
In short, it's the southern European welfare state on steroids but done responsibly.
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
So you've lived in how man other countries to know this??
let me guess, none.
I'd work on the presumption that the worldwide economy is going to fail and there are going to be some very unpleasant times ahead. It's actually fairly unlikely in my (guesswork) opinion, but given the stakes a variation on Pascal's Wager is a reasonable approach.
Forget cities. You've got a job you can do remotely to a large extent, so use the opportunity to get out of cities, the most dangerous place in a collapse is places with lots of people who are 99% reliant on "the system".
Find a farm somewhere growing a staple crop, wheat, rice, corn or whatever. You don't need to live on the farm, just nearby, because what you're looking for is land that will provide you with plenty of calories for a minimum of effort if you need it. You don't have to start being self-sufficient, just have a garden and grow some fresh veg to get the hang of it (it's fun too).
The real bonus is bringing the kids up. They'll get plenty of fresh air and exercise in an area that's very safe. Schools in rural areas are generally very good too, and commuting isn't a big deal if you need to, just find somewhere close to a rail station.
Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
Singapore is a good match. Safe, clean, efficient, business and family-friendly. It is an English-speaking country right in the middle of Asia.
The so-called lack of freedom is overrated.
Before you decide, be sure to watch "Portlandia", a recent TV Series (on a torrent near you). It's a documentary about how much fun it is to live in Portland. (Heh heh). Where else can you see stuff like this on a daily basis? :D
Daniel
and there is no where to run.
Historically you could run off to far undiscovered lands and start over.
Now, there isn't a place you can go where a crooked banker or politician has their teeth sunk deep in.
A new dark age is setting in, and with it will come massive wars of opression, and billions will die.
-Hack
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
Don't come to the US. As a person that use to live in the nations capitol, D.C., and now lives in poverty in southern VA. Stay out of the US! This country is going down the toilet slowly, and it sucks! There is no employment here, the 9-10% unemployment the government claims is total BS! It's more like 25-35% as they don't go door-to-door, but count people on unemployment benefits. The problem with that is those benefits only last about 3-6 months and then you're on your own. There is no tech jobs here, and I make a measly $30,000 a year, in DC I made closer to $60,000! Try supporting a family of 5 on $30,000 a year, it is fing killing me!
When I was in Germany (2011), it was beautiful and I could make 50-60,000 EURO a year in the tech industry! Europe is no where near as bad off as CNN claims, in fact I'm pretty sure it's BS propaganda to make us poor US civies feel better about our poverty. It's just too bad it's nearly impossible to become an EU citizen, especially a German EU citizen. Here in the USA, you can just walk on it, pathetic. And don't even get me started on the BS laws here.... It's out of control, just about everything is illegal and I feel like I live in a cage!
Sorry for being long winded, I'm just trying to save you from a life in hell.. I mean the USA.
Live near where you have extended kin as they likely will be a help and solace in bad times, and you know the local ecomy, speak the language, have a support network, etc.
Just live far enough away to provide insulation.
Keep in mind a much bigger collapse will likely be coming in tweny or thirty years.
as food gets scarcer and pricier and world energy supplies dwindle (so everything becomes much more expensive and forces a series of unpleasant tradeoffs such as food or warmth or transport) Things like wood supply, fresh water sources, and the ability to grow crops and sustain yourself
localy will become more important.
The US west will burn up completely by midcentury and that population moves east so pick areas, if you are a US citizen, that are far from major population centers.
Oh, and for slash dot users, forget coding and IT and learn how to grow food and hunt. ; )
The government will pay you if you want to start up a business. You can get citizenship without giving up your previous citizenship. Crime rate is very low, completely free market economy (check the economic freedom index), very good standard of living and plenty of people speaking southern european languages (french and italian are very popular and many kids learn them as a second language, portuguese is close enough to spanish so after a couple of months you'll be speaking fluently).
Santiago is a huge metropolis, although I would recommend you to move either to the south or to the north since that's where most of the big business are (North is mining, south is fishing).
... and try to improve life where you are.
what is new about not liking the US? The US military and corporations have ben shitting all over the world since before you or i were born.
There is nothing "new" about it.
We're on the same boat here. I'm a Greek mixed-signal designer, and for the past 3 years i've been contemplating this question. Here's what i've come up with:
1st choice: Canada. Quality of life, wages and workplaces seems to be among the best worldwide. The climate can be a bit harsh, especially for south Europeans but you get used to it. From what i understand Canada was the first 1stWorld country to get pass the financial crisis. So it seems as shielded as can be from future problems. Also, having only one neighbor, with whom you have excellent relationships, can only help. Last but not least, the Canadian dollar seems strong enough, and other countries in the region [like Iceland] consider adopting it. Biggest problem: It's very difficult to migrate to Canada. They have very strict conditions to be met. I have working experience, a m.sc in microelectronic design and a large sum of money in the bank, and the "migration wizard" at the Canadian embassy’s site keeps rejecting me. I'd live there for 20 years easily.
2nd choice: Finland. Basically all the goods of the E.E. without the bad. Bad climate here too, but excellent social policies, and workplaces. If you can handle the climate and the language you can’t lose. Seems well shielded to any economic crisis that are coming.
3rd choice: Australia. Having a thriving economy, and being close to the Asian market can only help. The language and weather is a big plus. I’m not sure about the IT market there, but it’s probably not bad. You should check it out.
Basically, for a long term solution you can’t bet on the US, or the centre/south EE countries. If you speak the language, Brazil seems to be a good choice, since for the next 5 years it will ride the wave of the Olympics and there will be lots of work possibilities.
Giorgo, is that you?
On a more serious tone, and as others pointed out above, you should have provided us with more clues. Relocating is an issue with lots of variables that vary strongly in each case. Having said that, all tips that one can give you can only be vague/anecdotal at best. Here are mine:
1. I am Greek working in Germany for 7 years now. Whether you can feel safe economically here strongly depends on who you work for. I work for a large chemical company (>15.000 employes worldwide) and can't complain. However, we now hire only if we explicitly need to fill a vacant place.
2. My Greek family and friends from my school/university years are all over the globe: Germany, Canada, Australia, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Brazil, UK. Those that are still in Greece plan to go away. However, this should come as no surprise. Greeks always had the tendency to migrate (also for no apparent reason) and this can only be enhanced by an economic crisis.
3. Strangely, some friends that were in USA came back (before the crisis broke out). Personal reasons also came into play, but it seemed that the conditions in the USA were not overwhelmingly good so as to encourage their stay.
4. In Australia you first need to get a well paying job in order to qualify for a visa. You can't go there looking for a job as many would imagine. This is likely to be valid for other countries as well.
My 2 cents.
One thing is for sure. Grass is definitely greener in Vancouver area compared to southern Europe. Having up to 2400mm of rain / year in helps a lot.
But now more seriously. I moved from Netherlands almost a decade ago and I love it here. Biggest assets of living in Western Canada is the people and the natural beauty over here. Job secrity is pretty ok too.
China is screwed. Horribly screwed. You do NOT want to be there when the hammer falls. Perhaps Hong Kong would be OK, it might escape the worst of the problems... if they let you live there...
India is probably better off, but coming from Europe are you seriously ready for the massive culture and lifestyle shock? It just strikes me as one of those societies that it's really hard to get along in if you have not grown up there. This is based on friends from india that go back from time to time, telling me what it is like to live there.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Kansas City, KS. Google Gig.
I'd consider staying in Europe for the moment. Yes, the eurocrisis will worsen, but economies will recover eventually. Besides, most countries you mention (Australia, Brazil, etc.) have problems of their own: Brazil is still struggling with its poverty, Australia is more dependent on foreign investment than you would expect, and the US isn't really better of than Europe when it comes to job opportunities.
It will depend on your priorities.
The best paying positions are in São Paulo, followed by Rio de Janeiro.
However, since you have a family, you might want to consider other cities with higher quality of life, like Curitiba or Florianópolis.
Brazil is a very big country, and things can change radically depending on the city you are talking about.
morcego
A van, down by the river.
Forget the economic issues where you are moving TO. The economy may be an issue where you are moving FROM of course (if you are unemployed and unable to find work, which is of course the case for may people in Spain and Greece at the moment). Anywhere you can find a suitable job has a good enough economy. In fact, if the economy isn't booming it could actually help you since housing will be cheaper there.
As for WHERE you want to go, that is of course a personal preference. I'd be looking for anywhere with good public healthcare, is safe, has progressive political attitudes, decent climate and good food. France comes to mind, but if you can stand a colder/wetter climate, I hear Vancouver is good. Stockholm is also nice (but then you have completely given up the weather part). I'd stay away from any developing nation and the BRIC countries, for their poor security.
The US is bearable in some parts (SF, NY, Pacific northwest) but remember to not get ill and unemployed at the same time...
If you like Europe, the northeastern US is as close as you can get on this continent.
Decent public transportation, decent schools, friendly people, varied climate, mountains, ocean, forests, lakes, what's not to like?
Have you considered Iran? When you get there, you want to talk to a guy named Ahmadinejad. When you find him, tell him Benjamin Netanyahu sent you. I am sure he will hook you up with some free room and board for a while.
Brazil, China, and India are huge countries. There are large cities in all of those countries where the standard of living is on par with, or exceeds, that of the West.
In Brazil you'd want to move to Curitiba. China, Shanghai or Beijing. Not sure about India. Maybe Madras?
The problem is that the cost of living in those cities might be higher than back home, especially in China. I'm an American, and if I had to move somewhere it'd probably be Chile or southern Brazil. I'm thinking about buying a condominium down there, actually.
There are also tiny towns all over the world with long histories of very stable economies and politics. Those are obviously harder to find, but they exist. Not every city in emerging or undeveloped countries is teeming with knife wielding, unemployed, illiterate natives.
And not every emerging economy is corrupt. Some have very stable political systems with a long history of the rule of law. Argentina and especially Chile have always enjoyed a strong rule of law, even during their military dictatorships.
Also FYI, be good at what you do and no financial crisis can hurt you.
Deep, classical hubris.
FInancial crises promote societal upheavals. They crash stock markets. They wipe out real estate values. They destroy savings accounts. They turn cities into war zones. If you're rich enough, you get to learn all about the wonderful world of K&R insurance, and the wonder of placing full-time bodyguards with your children. You get to live behind more walls than most Supermax inmates. Your spouse begins to take their frustration out on you, as do your kids.
You become acutely aware of how far away the panic room is, and you push down any thoughts that someone might not come when you call for help from inside. You hire people to carry guns for you, and you have to worry as much about them as you do any bad guys. You become a family under seige. Even your kid's puppy love has to be fiercely vetted and worried about as a potential gold-digger.
Your whole world becomes as much about fear and survival as any plane crash victim lost in the wilderness. Your doctor recommends anti-anxiety drugs, and THAT becomes something to worry about.
So there you are, as grim as any soldier in a losing battle. Your food is exquisite and tasteless. Your insomnia is at least wrapped in silk sheets. Spend as much money on hookers as you want. You'll never get close to what a woman who loves you can do for you.
And remember, this is what happens when you have enough money to try to insulate yourself from the upheaval. "Being good at what you do," means you're just another working stiff, and the functional difference between $100K and homeless isn't nearly as much as you might like to think...
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
You could go for the suburbs of Detroit, but there is so much dependency on the auto industry. Grand Rapids is a very nice "small" city with decent numbers of tech jobs and some cultural stuff. Being in Michigan gives you easy access to thousands of miles of coastline with flesh water and no hurricanes. If you like the outdoors, there are many national and state parks. There are 4 seasons (not a plus if you can't stand winter). Wages are good, cost of living is low - for me to relocate to California for example, my pay may go up 20 percent, but my cost of living would go up at least 50 percent while the size of my home goes down 50 percent. Michigan also leads the nation in number of second homes - go buy something on an inland lake an hour away so you can leave town on the weekends if that's your thing. I'll stick to the Detroit area because I've got family there, but Grand Rapids would be near the top of my list in the US.
Here's a good country freedom reference.
My corporate firewall warns me that the link to openmint.net contains a Trojan Virus. Buyer Beware.
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5 years: some civilized country not in monetary problems
10 years: any country with oil/gas reserves and other resources that so far was relaxed about developing an empire in the recent past
20 years: any country with a proven track record of a reasonably stable culture (I mean stable over relevant time scales like multiples of 1000 years) that still has >50% farmers in its population and didn't experience any significant overshoot during the last 200 years of party time.
Even under the assumption that mankind finds a newer better energy source, it might take a while until full scale implementation, so even the optimists have something to worry about.
Also I assumed that when you stay in a country for 20 years you will stay there.
So far my decision is to stay where I am and take what comes my way. If I wasn't so fatalistic I would try to prepare for the 20year option which at my age ~35 would be doable but hard.
Cities aren't my thing, fringes of cities might be OK though.
Je me souviens.
In the US, people have to fund their own retirement and medical expenses. The social safety net is weak. That is no problem if you are rich or young (with lots of time to amortize the costs), but if you are over 30, the cost of moving here may be very high. Since you are an EU citizen, I would suggest you take a look at other EU countries like Sweden and Denmark.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
If you want a high salary (and you're good at what you do), the US is still the best place to go and will probably be for the foreseeable future. China, India and other similar countries may be on the way up, but they still have a long, long way to go before they catch up with the "west" economically.
If you on the other hand prioritise family things like health care, education, child care etc. you would probably be better off moving to Canada or northern Europe. Even if there will be a new recession in the eurozone, Germany will not crash. The Netherlands will not crash. Scandinavia will not crash. Unemployment may rise a bit but there won't be any major systemic changes in the near future.
But of course there's no reason to be chained to the place of your birth. I was born in the northwestern U.S., have lived and worked on the east coast, England, Australia, and most recently 2 years of work based in Holland and traveling the E.U. You'll certainly have easier immigration issues staying within the E.U. and the north is as strong economically as anyone else in the world.
Australia & NZ ... very nice, and they want to keep it that way by not allowing the whole world to move there, so good luck.
China and India "on the way up"? Check out the massive political and environmental issues they face in the years ahead.
I'm back in Washington State now after seeing a LOT of the world, and love it more than ever. 'America' is not one place any more than 'Europe' is, there is a huge variety of environment, culture and employment opportunity.
Bottom line is that it will be your commitment and flexibility that determines whether a new place is a good fit for you ... if it doesn't work out, don't blame the place.
I would check a place where I like the way people is, behavies and relates; and that I can acclimate to the weather. Scandinavia is very rich, but they are very close to foreigners and it can take years to simple go have a beer with a work colleague you see everyday. Also, the Scandinavian winter can be very hard to your mood. I lived there for a year and couldn't stay even with the very good job offers I was getting. That is true, to a less degree, to Germany, UK, France, etc.
If you are from southern Europe, you are probably, as me, mediterranenan. Also, if you work in research you have probably been in contact with a lot of people around Europe and the world. You know, conferences, projects and all that stuff. Use that as a sample.
If you plan on continue doing IT research skip emerging countries. They are not emerging by doing research, but big industry muscle and natural resources. Not research as done at Europe at least.
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Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Austin has a great local economy, plenty of tech, a decent state university, and plenty of things to do.
the God of War
Sorry, Dude, it's Slashdot. :-) I meant Playstation, not politics.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
Have been to the UK, and most of Europe, have lived in the US and in the Congo.
While there are parts of the USA that are nice, on the whole I'll stick with Canada, thanks. Of course our current government really would like to turn Canada into the USA, while I think we'd be better off with a bit less of a gap between haves and have-nots.
who almost yearly takes the 6 hour drive up i87 to Montreal for R&R, Montreal is a pretty awesome place. I totally dug your pick-up-bike-drive-someplace-drop-it-off thingy, that now NYC is copying. You should make it friendlier for tourists to use though, although I guess there's good reasons against that (liability, transience, getting lost, etc.).
And sorry for not knowing any French or having any desire to learn. But I think you guys are used to us ethnocentric Americans, as I've never encountered brusqueness or hostility about being an outsider, I've always encountered warmth. But this is is in Francophone Quebec. I HAVE encountered less friendly snooty attitudes, only in Anglophone Canada. Which is telling. We got your back Quebecois if you ever try to go independent again. As a descendant of a New England American Revolutionary War soldier who killed redcoats and was shot at by tories, all I have to say is fuck the Queen.
Granted, I've never been there in the winter, and don't really want to go. But I hear you've built lots of interconnected underground malls and live like moles in the 6 month long winter.
I love Vancouver too. Canada is awesome in general, your attitudes towards healthcare, education, social welfare, guns, and financial responsibility is obviously way better than the USA.
Except for the weather, which is a pretty huge ding. That is why I have always maintained that global warming is a Canadian conspiracy.
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
We try to keep it quiet.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
My consort and I went through the "where do we ultimately want to live" question a couple years ago, mostly focused on the US (being from the US meant no paperwork problems). We found a few websites to be awesomely useful:
Searching this way will probably yield a few candidates who have the mix of demographics you care about, zeitgeist hits, weather you're happy with, etc... Subscribe to RSS feeds of their newspapers, local music scene forums, etc... to get a better feel for each, and ultimately, visit your top candidate(s) for a vacation. We visited our top candidate after all of the above, and we were astounded that it felt perfect on top of being a specification match.
I live in Saskatoon. :)
How do you do #2 without doing #4; is a benefit not a form of income?
Get a job before you move regardless of where you are moving to.
I'd recommend either Canada (in BC) where they have cheap power and plentiful water and will not be impacted by global warming rising heat for the next 40 years, other than most of the glaciers melting.
Or Brazil. They have a diverse energy economy and should do well long term.
Australia is going to get even hotter and have even more destructive wildfires in the coming decades, sadly.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
For an European, getting a work and residency permit is a formality so you'll have no problems there. You can get by in English initially and pick the local language up later (French / German / Italian, depending where you go).
after i have relocated there and landed a sweet job, I don't want you taking my prospects.
Yes it's great right now, but there's a housing bubble:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-19/congratulations-canada-on-your-ongoing-housing-bubble.html
That's not the only problem. Basically the reason Canada is great right now is that a) it never de-regulated it's banks, so no financial crisis, and b) they have loads of oil to sell from Alberta. a) will probably continue, but b) is associated with loads of prosperity for a few years, and then a major crash. It's called the Dutch Disease, and it's a major reason why South Korea is richer then Nigeria in 2012, despite the fact Nigeria was economically better off in the 50s and then discovered billion$ worth of oil.
I'd actually say the US is the best bet. The debt situation isn't ideal, but since the US uses the US Dollar the problems this can cause are pretty limited. Inflation is the main one. We're basically printing money, which means there's more dollars but the same amount of stuff, which means that (in theory) every dollar should be worth less, in turn it should take more dollars to buy the same amount of stuff, and that is the definition of inflation; but so far the reality is we haven't experienced any. We would probably be better off with some, if only because that would make all the debts holding us back easier to pay off.
Southern Europe is in a much different situation. They don't control their currencies, and inflation is anethema to their Euro-zone partners, so they have to balance their budgets. But they can't do that without economic growth, and their economies are designed to grow only under conditions of extreme global prosperity or high inflation. Since neither is likely to be the case anytime in the foreseeable future they are totally, 100% screwed.
The pay isnt as great as Australia but still better than the parts of Europe. They also seem quite keen to get techincal people here as most of the local talent has jumped ship to Australia. Quality of life is good although the holiday allowance is lower.
First thing, before we talk further, switch your career. "IT researcher" sounds like a bogus job which no one will pay one they find out where you are from since they will think that you were responsible for gutting down those Southern European economies.
Second is that take as much load as possible, if anyone is still giving it, then buy gold and bury it. Then declare bankruptcy. And please do it by forming a corporation not as an person. Remember, corporations are people when it comes to rights and they are zombies when in comes to responsibilities.
Third is chill out and relax. The grass is always greener on other side. American life is fucked up. Unless you work 70 hour weeks (yes YOU not the whole family put together) you can not maintain average quality of life.
Fourth is don't bother relocating. Do something to become rich wherever you are. Steal, rob, fraud, deceive, I mean learn something from bankers and politicians. Do some exercise and mediate for few minutes as well. Once you are rich, life is easier in all parts of the world.
Fifth is, take my advice seriously although it sounds funny.
But unfortunately you will never get to read this, since this post will buried somewhere.
Actually the question is valid and from his whereabouts I’m pretty sure not based on a glance. He (and I for that matter) probably sees and feels the full effect of the economic crisis all around him.
And he didn’t imply that he wanted to move to an emerging finance power. Rather he is looking for a stable economic environment (as is the vast majority of south Europeans right now). Stable is the key here. And unfortunately there are very few western countries that seem to be shielded from the coming economic crash.
- The IT market is strong - my organization can't hire people fast enough.
- The cost of living is low, compared to the coasts.
- It has one of the better downtown areas in the country.
- If you're into sports, there are several draws (though a pro hockey team is sorely missed).
- If you're into motorsports, it's heaven on earth.
- If you're into games, there's GenCon.
- The museums are nice.
- The weather has its extremes, but it's at least varied.
- Other major metro areas (Chicago, Detroit, Cincinnati, Louisville) are within easy reach.
- For ESL speakers, the midwestern accent is a mainstream one.
- There is a good mix of post-secondary schools in and around the area.
The main downside - to me, at least - is the northside, which is sprawl at its worst (Carmel, Fishers, Westfield). I'm fortunate to have a tech job downtown, so I don't have to go there very often anymore. But many tech jobs are there, so you may not have a choice in that. Then again, some people obviously like that style of living, or it wouldn't be so crowded.
Equestria. Immigration is easy (the ruler just hands out land parcels is you show up looking sufficiently plumb tuckered out), the land is packed with resources (especially precious gems), public transportation is everywhere from trains to taxis (although you might have to take your turn pulling the taxi now and then), they're the only nation to possess weather control technology, they have the best pastries and apple products in the world, and the folks are really, really, *really* friendly.
My own family and I ponder this question regularly. I'm self employed and able to work and support my family and household from anywhere in the world, so we frequently discuss just up and moving someplace. Not so much to get away from the US, but just to take advantage of the fact that there's an entire world out there. I'd be curious what peoples opinions of the best places to go if self employed are. On an up point for myself is I technically meet the requirements to gain Czech citizenship through my Father. So that may open up more regions in the world.
Anyone have any good places to go and live for various lengthy periods of time just to absorb cultures?
I've found it's difficult to get information on, as most people who are looking are specifically looking at countries that may also have work for them and most conversions, like this one here on /. seem to tend toward political/economic discussion of the living.
Iran is working on supporting oil being traded in currencies other than the USD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_oil_bourse
Iraq also tried to do that ... then it got invaded.
Dominique Strauss-Kahn as the head of the IMF called for considering using other currencies besides the USD as the world's reserve currency ... .. then had problems with a maid in a hotel.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/10/markets/dollar/index.htm
Ask Julian:
ECUADOR!
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
No doubt that Auckland, Wellington, Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth would all be better cittes for work, safety and overall quality of life.....I love it out here. No stress, good job, and good pay.
Very cheap, I moved here myself, got an amazing house for 57000$, which is considered INSANELY cheap by my friends in Denmark, Norway, Canada, Usa and Australia. I got a BRICK house, yes a BRICK house for that price, I live in the most amazing nature you can imagine, and we have the train station 10 minutes away from where I live, and that takes me to anywhere in the world...I just traveled to USA about 3 weeks ago, easy peasy. Wonderful country USA, I love you guys, so friendly people, such a nice country.
But if you want a cheap retreat, not too bad weather, come to South of Sweden, you'll have any luxury you want, super shopping malls, 1-2 hours by train to any BIG city, 1-2 hours to any BIG airport to anywhere in the world...and less than 100.000$ for your house here...and clean drinking water right out of the tap...I can guarantee you...you WILL be in heaven. Super fast Internet pretty much anywhere.
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
"IT Researcher" means "unemployed".
America has the most guns
Will that do for non-biased or will only the answer you want to hear be sufficient for you?
No offence meant, but your answer is biased - even though you didn't intend it - by being based around a single data point: yourself.
If I were choosing a place to relocate for the next 20 years, then I would want something more statistically grounded than the opinion of one person. Like, say, the world's most livable cities, based on Mercer's quality of living index. My list of places to permanently relocate would certainly include Sydney, Vienna, Zurich, and Vancouver. On the other hand, for a temporary relocation I would be tempted by somewhere more exotic like Brazil. If I were doing it short term and for the money and parties then Dubai - no taxes, and crazy expat salaries.
They are the Übermensch and will stay there even if the whole world collapses. Although as a Southern European you might find their culture fa too precise.
London! It is the strongest economy in the UK (ignore the bad press about the UK recession, the north and midlands are doing really bad and that is driving the overall data down), the economic data here is on par with Germany. It is one of the, if not the, most multicultural cities in the world. No matter where you are from, you will find your countrymen and women as well as friends from all over the world. And you seem to speak English well, so you won't have to learn a new language just to deal with everything and the government.
For tech jobs, have you heard of Silicon Roundabout?
http://www.wired.co.uk/topics/silicon-roundabout
It is the biggest cluster of technology firms (established and startup) outside of California. Google opened a huge office where tech firms can just network over lunch and startups can share ideas or raise funding (unlike Silicon Valley, you don't have to drive 40 miles to network) Did you know that Silicon Valley Bank opened its first branch outside of California right in London?
The biggest paying industry here is finance, but the good news is that you don't need a MBA in finance to work in the industry, just as long as your technology skills are good. I recommend working for a financial services consultancy first, then moving to a big bank or fund manager.
There are jobs here in media, advertising, biomedical, health care, tourism... It just depends on what you are interested in.
I moved here from the US, and I am glad to work somewhere where I always have at least 4 weeks paid vacation per year. I still work hard, but I don't feel my job is threatened if I call in sick. The UK is a good midpoint between the US's "live to work" culture and continental Europe "work to live" culture. There is a big degree of entrepreneurship here (shows like Dragon's Den and The Apprentice are really popular here), and you seem to be from a EU country, so you do not need to worry about any visas. Plus, the political climate and degree of cultural conservatism are way more open and welcoming than the US (the poster who said that the US Republicans and UK Conservatives are the same has no idea about the politics of either country). Plus, take the US high per capita GDP with a grain of salt - inequiality is higher in the US than anywhere else in the western world.
Yes, the weather isn't the greatest but the weather changes so much that since the Olympics have started, it has been sunny here most of the time. Plus, being on an island means the weather here is more moderate (cooler in summer, warmer in winter) than continental Europe. If you are a super-outdoorsy person who likes to do beach hiking and mountain biking every day after work, then I can't recommend London but the cultural activties here are second to none. Check the culture ratings of the global cities, and London always comes out on top, beating Paris and New York. I won't lie to you - the cost of living here is high, but the salaries usually make up for it. If all you want to do is to work for a charity or teach - more power to you, but you probably won't cover the cost of living here. However, IT jobs in the private sector pay well enough for you to live a comfortable lifestyle
You don't have to have a permanent job, a lot of my friends do freelance contract assignments. You lose the paid vacation and benefits, but make it up with twice the money - and unlike the US, you don't worry about having to get health insurance.
So in short, give London a try. You may find yourself here for years and years.
Great, diverse economy. In the worst times, unemployment hit 6%. In good times, almost down to 2%. Lots of good jobs, in private, public and in non-profit. Good schools, low real estate prices, Nebraska tends to be conservative (but fiscally, not a bunch of rednecks, too much), but Omaha is more liberal, so it is kind of Nebraska's Austin, TX. There is a reason Warren Buffett still lives here. And it has become much more diverse in the last 20 years, bringing with that better selection of food and cultures. I run the local BMX track in a city park, across from the cricket fields, next to the dog park, just down the street from the one of the mountain bike parks. And of course we have all the baseball, softball and soccer (football) you could want. Tons of music venues, and Omaha has it own sound and bands (http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/06/06/136896920/the-indie-rock-club-behind-omahas-100-million-creative-boom). We have minor league baseball, two pro football (American of course - UFL and arena), two semi-pro hockey teams a few good college teams in various sports. We hold the NCAA College World Series (baseball) every year and have held the US Olympic Swim trials the last two times. Traffic is good. On the downside, it mostly flat (hilly) and the nearest skiing is 8+ hours away, if you are into that. Hot and humid in the summer, and cold (but not much snow, usually) during the winters. Autumn here is great, however. Not New England great, but still pretty good. There is casinos across the river in Iowa (plus or minus depending on your tastes). I could go on. Good luck in your search.
I've lived/worked in a LOT of cities in the USA (as well as another country). If you're an IT researcher, USA is probably the place to be for the greatest earning potential/mobility -- this is where the brainpower of the world aggregates. It will continue to be this way for a while despite reports to the contrary.
Food, gas, and electronics are cheap and plentiful. People (depending on where you are) have a high tolerance for eccentricity, 'different-ness', and new ideas. The Internet (for the time being) remains uncensored.
Seattle is EXCELLENT for jobs (even if you don't want to work for Microsoft), and has both a hacker and a foreigner friendly culture. This is the only place I've ever been where I can put a resume online and get around 8 phone calls the same day (YMMV). Besides Microsoft, it has Amazon, Boeing, and a couple of other places you've heard of nearby. That being said, it can be very isolating, and very cold and dark if you're from Southern Europe. The cost of living is high, but not insanely high. The city is beautiful and eclectic (live in the city -- do not move to Redmond -- neither beautiful nor eclectic!). It's the perfect place to be in the summer, and wonderful in the winter if you like having ski resorts within 30 minutes of driving distance. Avoid anyplace in this latitude if you have a problem with 4:30 pm sunsets during the winter.
Silicon Valley is another place where you will probably find a good critical mass of companies who need your skills.
Los Angeles is a place that I'd personally like to move to, and I imagine would have critical mass. The weather and beaches are beautiful.
The Washington, DC area (East Coast in the USA) including Northern Virginia and Southern Maryland is also a good area for IT, but has a lot of defense contracting work (which means that you will be at a disadvantage as an immigrant).
Florida also has some decent opportunities, and the wonderful bonus of being able to drive to the beach whenever you want (you will miss this pretty much anywhere else in the USA, even if it looks close to the water on the map).
Texas is also rich and foreigner-friendly in a way that you would not expect -- but it's not Silicon Valley!
I would stay away from the Midwest (as wonderful as it is) and any metropolitan area whose name you've never heard of, even if the particular opportunity is good. You will want the ability to change companies without necessarily moving.
Another piece of advice: If you care at all about your home country, do three things: 1) try to find a position that will let you go to there for the summers -- e.g., an appointment at an institution for only 9 months, etc. This is very difficult to come by, but otherwise you may be slowly driven insane with homesickness and the one to three (if you're super-lucky) weeks of vacation that a typical US company will give you. 2) Get plugged into your local expat community. Make sure it exists where you're going. 3) Pick a place with the most direct airline routes back to your home city -- otherwise you'll waste 2-3 days traveling each way (I'm not kidding!).
There is a lot of corruption in Brazil, but it happens in the private/public atmosphere (cooperations paying politicians, politicians awarding contract to cooperations, much like the US). I have lived in Brazil for 5 years and never had to bribe anyone.
Han-Wen Nienhuys -- LilyPond
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I moved here three years ago looking at staying 10-20 years. So far, so good. We have a thriving tech community, a low cost of living, and low crime. Due to this being the steel making capital of the world 100 years ago, we have a lot of old and awesome cultural institutions much larger than would be expected of a city of this size, but houses cost next to nothing compared to larger cities. We're in the middle of a natural resources boom; we export quite a bit of energy. We sit at the junction of three rivers, and west of a mountain range; we rarely have droughts. Winters are reasonably mild. Summers are reasonably mild. There's an enormous education center here. Healthcare is great. And we certainly have jobs, as well. Take a look at Carnegie Mellon University, the University of Pittsburgh, the Software Engineering Institute, and the National Robotics Engineering Consortium; pghtech.org lists quite a bit more. Education, medicine, finance and software tend to be the dominant industries here, which are (not coincidentally) more recession-proof than most. Best small city I know.
Australia is consistently near the top of all Quality of Life and other measurements, along with Canada and New Zealand.
Here is the latest:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-14/melbourne-remains-worlds-most-liveable-city/4198294
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-life_Index
http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/
Do a bit of research and make sure you find the best place to live, not just for yourself but your family, your kids futures and their kids.
Disclaimer: I was born in Australia and moved to New Zealand.
You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
"Which city"
Well there's your problem.
Anyone have any thoughts on Mombasa, Kenya? I don't want to color this with my own perceptions, so I'm just going to leave the question wide open.
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
Texas is hotter'n hell. It's full of right-wing tea party gun nuts, Castle Doctrine and death penalty and rednecks who drive dually pickup trucks everywhere even in city traffic where they take up two lanes at the same time. Texans don't know how to drive in general either. Traffic sucks in the big cities and everything is spread so far apart you must drive long distances to get anywhere. There is no public transportation much to speak of either. We also have rabid skunks, rattlesnakes, and venomous brown recluse spiders everywhere. Tornadoes happen every spring, and wildfires every summer and winter. In winter it never snows... we have ice storms instead, and nobody in Texas knows how to drive on ice either. We also don't like foreigners moving here, especially Californians, so stay away because we'd like to keep Texas just the way it is.
because the dream of the 90's is alive in Portland.
Do you like to have to bribe your way around the local bureaucracy?
Do you like to live within a mile of crushing poverty?
Do you like to endure social, natural, and economic crises?
If you answered yes to all of these, then yes an emerging market is for you (i.e. Brazil, China, India, etc). If you answered no to any of them, stay in a Western country.
A nice, cozy, Western country like the United States?
If you want to avoid all these, you pretty much don't have other choice than one of those OMIGOD SOCIALIST! wellfare states, and even then these are not guaranteed. Nitpicking aside, all these three problems seem to be a part of everyday life in the US, just in a (slightly) different scale.
"I'm just here for the achievements"
Go to Panama. :)
Strongest growing country in the middle of America with easy connections around the world and an American standard of living with a third world country cost of living. Your money will go very far there without the paranoia you will find in other countries.
Our only curse is the politicians....
Rather than discussing social and other items statically, I would focus more on how well the culture's priorities match or fit those of the OP.
*The US prioritizes economic productivity, efficiency, and convenience at the expense of other virtues.
*People in the US benefit from decent wages, low total taxes and cost of living --> very large new homes and nicer cars, good entertainment/music, and 24 hour stores are everywhere.
*The US suffers low quality or high costs for education and is straddled with a need to maintain health insurance or bear that as a financial risk.
*Usually public transport is weak because of the urban sprawl, but cars are so cheap and convenient that hardly anyone cares.
Compare that package to others that might meet your wants and needs.
If you were looking for the response that you wouldn't want to wind up unemployed in Greenland, I won't give you the satisfaction!
satisfaction? You keep on using that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means...
If I were looking 20 years out (emphasis on at least that far in the future), my first questions would be whether the country/region has a high tech level broadly distributed today and is likely to have reliable local sources of water and electricity then. Yes, I know that puts me out on the lunatic fringe, but the arguments in Limits to Growth are still relevant and we're just now entering the period of interesting times in their forecasts. IMO, that rules out Africa, India, China, and most of the rest of Eastern Asia including Japan (in that order). I'd stay clear of isolated urban city-states (eg, Singapore). New Zealand seems a reasonable bet, also parts of Canada, Northern Europe, and select parts of the US. Brazil and Argentina if they can finish getting their acts together soon. Water may be in issue in Australia, but my main concern would be that they've got an awful lot of resources that China would like to more directly control. Canada may have that same problem with the US.
I gave my own kids the advice that within the US, they ought to stay in the contiguous states, roughly west of 105 W longitude, north of 40 N latitude.
I hate questions like this. It always reminds me of people that used to act like the world is trying to obfuscate things and they ask things like what the best beer is, or what the best operating system is, or what the best car is.
There is no "best"! What you like is not what I like.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
I moved to the San Francisco bay area last year and I'm loving it. Things to add to what AC said:
Don't forget about "The Big One". The entire US west coast is due for some serious, industrial-strength natural disasters in the first half of this century.
Normally "the end is nigh" pronouncements are just scare mongering, but in this case they have a real basis of fact.
The way I'd like to do it is alternate between the summer in Norway and the summer in Chile. I love mountains and seaside.
Naw, Equador. If it's good enough for Julius Assange, it should be good enough for anyone.
So I realize that this is chapter ad verse from the Book of Bernanke, effectively, but it's insane. Yes, you are correct in the short-term that the amount of the debt doesn't matter, but how much it costs to service it. But that's only true if you can manipulate the interest rates to ever-lower levels to account for the deficit spending that we've all been experiencing. After all, even given your math, if the principal keeps increasing, the interest rate has to keep going down, right? So my question to you is, how long do you think the US can keep pushing interest rates lower? Certainly not forever. Probably not much longer at all. These historically low interest rates will have to increase at some point.
I make analogies to household finance because it's easier for people to see certain ideas as completely insane when framed in a conventional frame of reference. Essentially what the US - and much of the rest of the world - has done is take out national debt on what amount to variable interest rate loans, and we've taken them out at historically low rates. Indeed, we've set our national budget based on what we can barely afford even given those historically low rates, and even then our total debt continues to grow.
Sound familiar? Pretty much exactly what happened around 2004 when every homeowner maxed out on interest-only loans they could barely afford, then paid bills on credit cards. And we saw how smart that was. As soon as rates went up a bit, we saw a feedback loop that resulted in a cascade of debt failure. Now every country in the world is doing the same thing with their national finance that those homeowners did with household finance. Great plan.
The problem with your strategy is the same problem that happened then: everything gets screwed up when the interest rate merry-go-round stops and the cost to service the debt balloons. Even more fun is that, if we don't solve the problem, lowered debt ratings will also result in higher interest rates on that debt as it goes out of control.
So what do we do? Claiming that the debt is an artificial political construct is fantasyland. If your neighbor told you his debt - that amounted to as much as he makes in a year and is growing rapidly - is just something his wife says to piss him off, you'd say he was delusional. It's no different here. Ballooning debt is a huge long-term issue. The only question is how much we trade off short-term vs. long term to solve our immediate problems. Put another way, how much do we live off our credit cards to pay the bills?
First, you've highlighted one thing very accurately - continuing to pay unemployment benefits to some people who have been on them for up to four years straight is completely insane. Providing incentives to employers to hire full-time employees with health benefits would be a much better idea. But that is too obvious for US leadership.
The next thing is how you get off this merry-go-round. Your solution, as you state, is to simply manage interest rates at a low level. If only it were that easy - sorry, but you can't keep them this low forever. Or even likely very long. So the question is, how do you let them rise without leading to crippling inflation or an equities crash? Your plan requires a solution to that problem. It also requires a plan to return our debt-to-GDP level to where it needs to be, which will probably require keeping debt constant (ie, balance the budget) while increasing GDP and letting interest rates rise to normal levels. And it's going to be very hard to do all those at the same time.
Otherwise, we "solve" this stagnation/unemployment problem only to cause new, potentially worse problems. And this is the problem I have with Greenspan's legacy - we've spent the last 30 years solving the short-term problem while ignoring the long term. That's how we got where we are. We need to actually start looking at the long-term consequences of our policies for once. And that's why our debt problem isn't an artificial political issue. Anybody who thinks that hasn't thought this issue through past the next year or so.
What's the best place to relocate?
That just could be difficult.
There are also tiny towns all over the world with long histories of very stable economies and politics. Those are obviously harder to find, but they exist. Not every city in emerging or undeveloped countries is teeming with knife wielding, unemployed, illiterate natives.
The problem is that the submitters big plan is to have a career in technology. Try moving to some backwater town where you a) dont look like anyone there, b) don't talk like anyone there, and c) don't know anyone there... And then try competing for, if you're lucky, the ONE job around in technology. If you aren't lucky, you will not find out that there are no technology careers for 100 miles, only after you put a down payment on a bribe to a land owner so you can get a place to live.
Do you like to have to bribe your way around the local bureaucracy?
Do you like to live within a mile of crushing poverty?
Do you like to endure social, natural, and economic crises?
If you answered yes to all of these, then yes an emerging market is for you (i.e. Brazil, China, India, etc). If you answered no to any of them, stay in a Western country.
A nice, cozy, Western country like the United States?
If you want to avoid all these, you pretty much don't have other choice than one of those OMIGOD SOCIALIST! wellfare states, and even then these are not guaranteed. Nitpicking aside, all these three problems seem to be a part of everyday life in the US, just in a (slightly) different scale.
Holy moly, if you think the "Scale" of these issues (especially poverty) is even recognizably similar to the US, you must have the world's best pair of fisheye glasses. What happens when several MILLION people live on only 1-2 dollars a day, right next to a metropolis of several million with a western style of life of 100 to 200 dollars a day, or more? Hint, the answer has to do with private helicopters. And if you can't afford one... well...
I live in the SF Bay Area, so I am used to a pretty high level of culture, etc
But I spent 6 months contracting for Alberta's power utility Epcor about 10 years ago and really liked Edmonton -it is very multicultural, there is a big college -a lot of downtown is interconnected so you don't have to go outside when it is cold/wet and they have the Fringe Festival and a fair amount of live music and good restaurants.
There were enough french speakers and ethnic enclaves that it felt more European than Calgary or any American city I have been in although I realize that Quebec and probably Vancouver are more cosmopolitan.
If my gf could stand the cold I would definitely consider living there, but she can barely handle Bay Area winters....too bad, but it is below freezing for days at a time -in fact EPCOR was not allowed to completely shut off anyone's electricity -they had to give them enough so that they could run a heating coil so as not to freeze to death...
It was really cool taking BART to Edmonton for my commute I must say...2 weeks up there, one long weekend back home...
-I'm just sayin'
I did it successfully. It's called the short stay business visa. Or even a tourist visa, because no one's going to follow you around, and they're not going to ask when they grant you the work visa "What kind of visa were you in the country on, when you interviewed for this job?". Sure, you have to leave the country every 90 days, but New Zealand is just a couple hours away and it's not too expensive to fly there. Businesses hire people on long stay business visas all the time. (Those are the ones with the minimum salary level).
If you're under 30, it's even easier. You can get a working holiday visa that lets you work for 1 year (renewable for a second), without proving qualifications or without having to have a certain level of income. That can easily turn into sponsored employment and/or sponsored permanent residency.
The percentage of murder victims that are criminals is extremely high in the US. Depending the year and location of the sample, it can be as high as 80 or 90%: http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-01-02/news/bs-md-ci-homicide-analysis-20120102_1_killings-baltimore-murder-victims-violent-crime
Most of these killings are drug related. If you don't hang with violent criminals and you aren't a criminal, the actual odds of being murdered in the US aren't greatly different than in most first world nations.
We've weathered 3 tech downturns since I've been in the IT biz without a dent, our housing market didn't have a huge bubble so there wasn't much value lost, and unemploment in IT is near 1% here right now. Everyone's hiring developers. Lived here all my life - weather's decent if you like real snow in winter and heat in the summer, the city is growing and modern, and there's a fair amount to do if you prefer more family-oriented over a single's night life. If you write code, come. We'd love to have you.
If you can take the heat, and don't mind the orderly government.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
Bozeman, Montana, is a great place to live. It has a low crime rate, and will likely be the place where we make first contact with extraterrestrials.
Cuenca, Ecuador. Google it.
There is only one choice that makes sense.
The 21st century is shaping up to be the Russian century. When China collapses in a combination ecological and economic crisis due to too many people, too little space and too much corruption, Russia will be sailing ahead. They have lots of territory rich in all kinds of natural resources. They have too few people but are willing to pay families for every child born in order to solve that problem. And there has been a steady battle against corruption over the past 10 years that has made a lot of headway and made life easier in most of the large cities. Russia is a major beneficiary of global warming as it opens up many millions of square kilometers of new territory to agriculture. The forests will also grow faster, and there will be less need to import foods from southern countries. And Russia has enough oil and gas to supply all of Europe, not only its own needs.
Added to that, the Russian language is easier for foreigners to learn than English or many other languages. It has a simple and regular grammar, a simple straightforward verb structure that will be a pleasant surprise to anyone who has struggled with the verbs of French, Spanish or Italian. It is written phonetically and the Russian people love foreigners who take the trouble to learn their language.
The cuisine is varied and includes influences from Turkey, Georgia, Kazakhstan and others which most Europeans have never experienced. Such a variety of salads that you will find European salads rather plain and uninteresting after experiencing Russian variety. And it is a vast country ranging from the southern beaches of the Black Sea to the Arctic volcano ski mountains of eastern Siberia. It is a huge and vast country.
Different situation - I'm retired (at 45 thanks) so don't have to worry about opportunities for myself.
I do worry about opps for my kids, but it's too late - we've raised them to be American.
Our (wife+self) game plan has always been to move offshore when the last kid goes to college.
If Ryan (eff Mittens) gets elected we may rethink that.
The political and economic risk in the US has been growing ever since Clinton got elected, Ryan *may* turn the tide.
Without rule of law and respect for property rights, why on earth would you subject yourself to worldwide taxation.
FUIRS, FUBO.
P.S. "Rule of law" and "respect for property rights" rules out *all* the BRICS.
The US economy....its a moot point for many Americans. The only economics that matters to people is their own. This fact seems to reflect in most opinion on the subject. If you're sufficiently well fed then economics can be debated with much less consequence.
If not for food stamps, we'd have to eat the rich.
The economy is booming, and the energy export sector will boom for decades as Asia grows.
You might consider a change in professions to suit their needs, but Oz is rich and getting richer.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
It's a massive rambling wall of text with horrible cultural stereotyping and unwarranted historical extrapolation. If you follow the author's logic, Europe would never have become technologically advanced because it was feudal, backward and stuck with a debilitating belief system during large parts of the middle ages. Pretty much the only thing good about the text is that it contains a crash course in (certain parts of) Chinese history, although if that's what you're in for, Wikipedia is a much more enjoyable read.
Go ahead, don't say I didn't warn you.
I'm not sure if this will get read, but i'll comment on Australia first hand. It's a good country but has some quirks; for example we are quite pre-occupied with what every one else is doing, we are very easy going provided you fit within a fairly broad range of a type of person (so an IT researcher starting a family probably wont have any problems if you don't have any weird habits) but that differs a little from Europe where people generally don't care what any one else is doing unless it's directly affecting them. Also its a very safe country (probably due to my first example), which means there aren't any semi-automatic rifles, but you also can't take up base jumping or get a nice paint-ball gun (your allowed some paint-ball guns if you get a licence and never show it to any one, but all the good ones are still banned). IT is doing ok, dollar is going well, stuff is more expensive, beaches are good, and climate is nice (but don't expect amazing skiing),
It's called "Shit on shit" crime and it happens a lot in Australia. A difference though is that if someone in Australia owes a loan shark or drug dealer money, they'll get shot, collect a payout from the Victims Compensation fund, and then hand that over to the crook. A Melb cop was telling me that's one of the reasons why many of the various shootings are non-fatal hits to the extremities: the crooks want you alive to collect your payout.
It's similar to when some one asks what's do you think the best phone is so i tell them my dream phone and why but then what would probably suit there needs (i can't stand using an iphone, but for some people it's perfect). So with this question i'm guessing the answer is Australia because it's generally going to be better suited for an educated guy looking to settle down, personally I'm a bit more adventurous and think Brazil could be a huge amount of fun.
Now, if you have some means to move, Australia is pretty cool, but I'd focus on Melbourne and points south. Much nicer, cooler, weather. The economy is rockin' but the soil is weak and it has very little fresh water.
If you don't mind isolation and are more family oriented and neighbourly, New Zealand could work for you.
Good luck. I left San Francisco for Toronto in 2006 because I saw what was coming down the pike. Sold my place that I bought for $375k for $890k. Was able to put a REALLY nice down payment on a place here in Toronto, and bought a small cottage in Prince Edward County for cash. So, if housing prices go down 20, 30% I don't really care. The poor fuckers who bought my place in SF are now underwater on their mortgage. Be smart. Look ahead. Look at basic strengths. But do get out of the USA. That place is fucking doomed.
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Mt Airy, Philadelphia. I am not kidding. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Airy,_Philadelphia
- diversity: one of the most racially integrated communities anywhere
- excellent schools: Philadelphia and the surrounding suburbs have some of the biggest variety of excellent schools anywhere including private and charter schools.
- tight knit startup community
- cheap: low cost of living for a big city on the US east coast
- transportation: fast train to center city or to New York
- food: Philly is a fantastic city for foodies
- beer: philly is an unbelievable beer city. tons of local crafts and world class bars
- Not Boston
- Not New York, but it is highly accessible
must... stay... awake...
that is why some operating systems "defrag"
I met a guy from Germany settled on the mid north coast of NSW in Australia to do IT consulting work for global clients. Surf all morning, work all afternoon.
Go well
There's a problem with this recession: it's technology.
Companies have been outsourcing work to cheaper countries because they can: call centers and programmers in India are possible because of the internet, manufacturing in China is possible because of the internet.
Now that technology is good enough for self-driving cars (Yay Google), and champion game-show contestants (Yay Watson and IBM), we're finally going to see people replaced by machines. Since most of a company's operating budget is taken up by salaries, any company would jump at a chance to replace a person (yearly recurring cost) with a robot (a one-time cost). The more robots you have, the more successful your company and your competition goes out of business or buys their own robots. The cost of production drops, and everything is great... for those of you who are still working!
And what about the products? In the beginning, cars (for example) were hand-made, and expensive. Then came the assembly line; prices dropped, quality dropped. Then the robots came to the assembly line; prices dropped again. At that point, all that can be done to lower prices is to build faster with cheaper parts. I can't see that the quality will be going up, which brings me to my next point:
"There's nothing made by man that can't be made a little bit cheaper and a little bit worse." -- Mark Twain
What should you do? The answer is obvious: get a job making or servicing robots, or own a company that uses robots. And get a robot for yourself, by which I mean a 3d printer.
Cheers!
It is not a perfect fit for what you want, but check the Wikitravel article on "retiring abroad" for info on various places that are cheap to live and that do encourage immigration: http://wikitravel.org/en/Retiring_abroad
So brunettes: Latin America , blondes: Eastern Europe.
South America, I think, has it's best days ahead of it. I'm seriously considering Buenos Aires in Argentina, or Guayaquil in Ecuador. The advantage to most countries in South America is that the dollar usually stands up pretty well against local currency, and they often have generous immigration programs for the "investor" (anyone who's willing to drop $25k in a CD) class. I'm not sure about Argentina, but I know Ecuador has such a program.
When looking at countries for stability, I like to look at how well capitalized the banking systems are. The theory being that the more capitol the banks have on hand, the less likely they are to totally screw up the local economy. The banks all over south America have ridiculously good capitalization, some even holding as much as 30% of deposits in liquid. Contrast that with American banks that hold less than 6% in liquid, and the places you want to be become obvious. There are a couple spots in Europe where it's good to be a foreigner right now, but I would avoid anywhere on the continent until things start looking up.
Lots of good places in Asia too. For example, Hong Kong looks promising. Very business friendly, if that's what turns you on.
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As a multinational having lived and worked in several countries in Europe, as well as Australia and the US, and working everyday with people from all over the planet, my opinion is that differences are largely cosmetic. If you have any talent at all you can do well in almost any country that isn't obviously at war and that isn't an insufferable dictatorship.
In spite of what people say, the actual differences in the West are often exaggerated. If you want long-term employment in a stable company Germany is probably one of the safer bets right now. If you want to start your own company soon, the US is probably still the best place to get initial funding if you have a good idea. Some countries are more welcoming to foreigners than others, these include the UK, Canada, Australia, and France (contrary to what people might think). This is less the case now in the US in fact. Some countries are not doing well economically right now like Italy, Spain, Portugal and Greece, but most likely they will rebound in a year or two.
Be prepared for a culture shock now matter where you go. Spend time to really learn the language. Plan to stay at least 2-5 years to make it worth the investment. Be prepared to go through a lot of red tape (visas, work permits, etc). Make sure you can acquire the nationality of where you want to live, eventually, without losing the one you have now. You will eventually want to participate in the political system of where you live. Since you plan to have kids, look up the school system. Research before going, get help, etc. Once there invest time and effort into your community, and you will be right.
Don't sweat it.
Berlin is a growing metropolis in the financially strongest country in Europe, and is attracting a large number of IT professionals due to the numerous High Tech companies moving there. I'm not sure why you want to leave Europe, as not all of Europe is suffering.
I recently (two years ago) relocated to Prague from a Scandinavian country and I have to tell you I'm loving it. Part of the EU, own national currency, small enough not to be interesting to anyone.
Very culturally satisfying, girls are pretty and the general culture is very relaxed.
You mentioned Argentina, I'll comment on that.
The place has a lot going for it in many respects but it also has many factors against it.
If earning from abroad I'd say it's a proposition. They say in Argentina you'll never starve as such, you'll just be really uncomfortable.
However, the peso has been devaluing at >20% for decades now. Graph it against the dollar and you can see this is intentional printing press work. Strikes and chaos have been going on and off for decades. There's regular economy crashes. Currency exchange restrictions and protectionism bite.
It all depends on what your income is. If you have safe income outside the country then you should be fine apart from getting caught up in the economy crash every 10 years, subway strikes and bureaucratic madness.
The bureaucracy is insane. It's much like Business is systematically pursued and attacked from all angles. Perhaps this is a result of having peace for so long instead of having everything flattened in WWII and rebuilt. It has a cooling effect on buying houses, exporting is a nightmare, things go missing, people rip you off, goods get stuck at the port etc etc. Anything involving red tape is bedlam.
There's still a large element of blackmarket. Everybody is just trying to survive. Every now and then the gov comes after an element and changes it.
People are hardened against all this stuff. It's an interesting study in the things that could be coming the way of Europe and the USA. People survive in their own ways, whether it's doing cash in hand in a profession, keeping funds outside of the country or blackmarket trading. The question would be how you would be able to do that? You might be able to do this for years but I wouldn't feel completely secure... just more secure than Greece.
A blog I run for the wealth
I'm an American expat living in London for the past 5 years. It is the greatest place I've ever lived. If you work in IT, you can get a good job here, earning well above the average salary. It makes the city appear cheap, even though most people find it quite expensive. If you can land a contract job in the finance sector, even better. London has not been hit hard by the recent economic swings, despite what you may have heard. People here are generally happy, and the weather is not nearly as bad as rumoured, although this summer has been a bit crap.
I moved here from San Francisco, a beautiful-yet-unforgiving city. I made $130k there, and could not afford to by a flat. It is an excruciatingly-expensive city. Since a huge majority of people living there either work in finance or IT, you wouldn't stand out, salary-wise. Hence, everything from milk to break to transport takes its toll on your wallet. If, God-forbid, you should lose your job, you will feel like the world caved in on you. It's very difficult to survive there unless you make really good money. You won't be able to afford to put your kids through private school on a single salary, and the public schools are crap. The only families I knew still living in the city were quite well-off. I also left SF because the job market was very competitive. London, as I've mentioned, seems cheap when you're making 3x the average salary or more.
The bottom line is, where can you find good work? Don't forget the visa issue. The U.S. has tightened up immigration heavily, and it's very difficult to get an H1-B visa anymore. Anywhere in Europe would work for you, and London is, arguably, the tech hub of the continent.
I could go on, but everyone has their own opinion. If you have the freedom to go anywhere, it's really going to come down to getting a job (and visa). I've had the opportunity to go to Asia, Australia, etc. I don't see myself leaving this great city anytime soon.
Helsinki is on the list of the most livable cities.
Finland has a high standard of living, very safe place to live in (in comparison) especially for children, good healthcare.
For a trained and experienced IT worker there will be a job, and in IT depending on the position, working in English might be realistically possible.
In Finland you will NOT get rich or find success, but you'll get a comfortable life and adequate income even as an immigrant (if you're an able IT professional).
These are the only currently AAA-rated countries by Moody's, S&P, and Fitch:
Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Luxembourg, and Canada.
Canada.
They are looking for skilled people, it's a free country (unlike certain places that call themselves "free" but aren't really), the people are great and it comes out towards the top of surveys for things like standard of living, education, "happiness" etc.
Those who live in a paradise don't want more people to move there.
I here Winnipeg is lovely.
like Judy implied I'm blown away that a single mom able to make $5530 in 1 month on the internet. have you read this site makecash16.com
The biggest factor in my opinion is whether you are truly accepted in the new country. Countries such as the US, Canada, Brazil, Australia, Mexico and many others especially in the Western Hemisphere are full of European immigrants like yourself so you feel quite welcome. I personally would be skeptical of moving to a country which is dominated by a few local cultures such as China, India, Russia, most of Europe, and most of the world for that matter. It makes a big difference whether you feel that you have to assimilate or if your native culture and adopted culture both become your identity.
I moved countries a few years ago, and even moving within one's own culture area can be hard work. There will be many little legal things and things to do with the system you move to that you need to learn.
As to the question "what is the best country to move to", the answer is based on your expectations of the future, or your goals.
I am a family man and moved with young children. I believe I will stay here in Sweden for the foreseeable future. There are a few reasons for this, many of which have to do not only with my own chances for the future but also for my children:
Good, cheap healthcare ...and a few more reasons
Good efficient social care (not perfect, but pretty good)
Excellent quality schools at all levels
Schools have no tuition fees (paid for with tax money. This applies to universities as well)
Good human rights situation
Good safety (low crime, low accident rates, high survivability)
As you may see many of these reasons include contingency planning. If I should become unable to work I won't lose a chance of a decent life, and the rest of my family continues to have good future prospects. The US scares me mostly because of health care costs and job loss issues, otherwise the US can be seen as a land of opportunity. But lose your health and job in the US and it's not just your problem but also your kids' problem. That's not something I really want to aim for (unless I were to get the kind of wages/income that makes those issues moot).
Scandinavia is excellent for this, but much of Europe is also quite good. The public healthcare systems in most of Europe range between decent and excellent, and the public school systems do likewise. The UK has quite expensive tuition for most higher level schools, and most countries have some private schools that may cost a bit.
So I don't see it as only being about the visible costs of housing and food vs the size of the paycheck as I see many other issues that easily outweigh that. In Sweden I can survive on a very small paycheck, live comfortably on a small paycheck, and live extremely nicely on anything larger all the while knowing that if something gets messed up there is a safety net for myself and my family. I would trade away half my paycheck for this (in the form of taxes and/or a lower total paycheck)
IMHO, to determine what you are after, analyze each country and location the same way you would analyze any other system for a customer. Do a cost / benefit lifecycle analysis for each timeframe and assign a probability to each outcome for the reliability of the data. Multiply the probability times the probable outcome weight and compare it to the sum or average of the probability adjusted weights. Now maximize/minimize for desired probabilities, and take pick your winners in each category. Now adjust the answers due to the weight you give to each category, and choose the max/min of each. Sum the answers and get your 'winner' overall.
Take that answer, and adjust it by your gut feel 'reasonable answer' fear factor quotient to see if you believe the imperical results to see if you want that answer or not.
Now if you were a client, you would make a recommendation to a customer (where to build a new datacenter, or distribution center, etc). But for personal use it still comes down to personal bias. ... Since my wife won't read this, I will admit I did a cost/benefits analysis of getting married vs not, and a 'requirements' list for desired traits in a spouse. She meets or exceeds requirements in all areas I had noted as important, of which I am very pleased. And 30+ years later, it seems like it stuck, but I still try to NOT take her for granted.
We do the same thing when we make any life decision. Normally the analytical solution wins, but sometimes the 'gut feel' wins. The 'gut feel' wins when there is 'just that something that doesn't seem right' about the analysis. ... Doing a post mortum analysis of our analytical analysis to see 'why' normally finds there are areas we didn't consider or our analysis in that area was made on bad assumptions for whatever reason. ... All that being said, what is your 'best guess'? Where are you getting your data from? Is that source normally accurate? Do you believe their perspective?
As a US citizen, I am bias in favor of the USA doing the right thing in the long run. But long run might be longer than I live. The USA does make stupid decisions mainly because the US voting public is gullible and overly optimistic when given dreams of a brighter future rather than information and facts about the way to a more prosperous for all future, IMHO.
For my money, If you see a country like Greece starting to believe in doing the right thing, and going down the belt tightening route, it might be the best long term bet, and if you can move in with some capital, it is the time to 'buy low' and 'sell dear' in 20+ years. But the time in-between can and probably will be hard. If they don't, just don't go there, the risk is to high both in safety and economically.
Canada and Austrailia are good, but IMHO their level of socialism is unsustainable in the long run, like the UK. But it will work for a while longer because they have the peoples mandate, and their governments can live on debt for a long time.
Depending on your religious tolerance, some Islamic countries are quite good for 20+ years, and some are not. Religion and religious tolerance by you and the country might be a reason to choose or disqualify a country. Even in the USA, some states are more liberal than others and some of them are more 'tolerant of different views' than others, even though our laws supposedly don't allow it. (i.e. Utah is still basically Mormon (the Church of Latter Day Saints) as a de-facto religous requirement to succeed. Some southern states are considered 'bible belt' and are pro-conservative Christian interpretation. Some states are effectively 'atheistic' if you look at polls taken by various groups (many states in the NE and West coasts, and north), Folks in the midwest 'flyover states' tend to be more 'independant' both economically and religously, but tend to be 'more religous' than the coasts.
Reviewing the CIA Worldbook web site might help in overall country selection based on lots o
... "When you pry the source from my cold dead hands."
We're all doomed anyway...
'markets are pulling the teeth out of strong European countries by destroying the South' !!!? Oh Dear Tsakas, markets are neutral, there is no planning in free markets, that's the beauty of them; you seem to be anthropomorphizing them. Take responsibility for the state of your own economy. It's not always everybody else's fault. Loz
Well, since --42-- is the answer for everything, I suspect it could be...
1. The 42nd country of the world.
2. The 42nd State in America.
3. The 42nd Glacier in Antarctica.
4. The 42nd county in Ireland
5. The birth state of America's 42nd president.
7. The 42nd island in Micronesia.
8. The 42nd suburb of London.
OK, well, that's enough hilarity for now. Remember, keep your friends close but keep your 42nd enemy even closer!
I'm moving AWAY from the San Francisco area next week, back to Australia after being here decades.
This place is too expensive in bad ways.. bringing up kids is hard enough without the government being actively against you.
Luckily I have an AUS passport to fall back on..
The US has great attractions unfortunately it's systemically screwed. Joe Average has no way to avoid getting screwed by Joe 1%.
Australia has great amount of resources, has a fiscally conservative government and they are poised to make big bucks in the next 20-30 years. Other than that, China is looking good. Know Manderin? Down side is they aren't nearly as well armed. Easily the best place would be Australia or New Zealand. Don't go there if you think Obama is great. The shock of reality may kill you.
"crisis [krahy-sis] noun, plural crises [-seez]
Example Sentences:
1. Well, let's go back to history and think about the leading indicators of financial crises and what they are.
2. However, computers are still amateurs when it comes to thinking their way through unforeseen crises such as component failures.
3. Feedbacks in the economic network can turn local crises into global ones. "
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiemgauer
Casteism
Singapore is a city-state almost completely devoid of left-wingers... In other words - paradise!
The most economically free, lowest-taxed, most competitive, most high-tech, safest, and cleanest place on Earth.
somewhere other than where I live!
I've non-seriously looked at moving to Canada a couple of times. The first time was during the Vietnam draft; I would have probably done Conscientious Objector instead, but also I'd only seen the Frozen North parts of Canada and hadn't yet been to Vancouver. Fortunately, the draft was winding down and I had a high lottery number.
But more seriously, during the Bush years somebody posted the Canadian immigration points system to Slashdot. If you're under 20 or over 50, they really don't want you unless you've already got a job that will sponsor you, and otherwise it would take me a lot more work now than it would have then. You get points for advanced degrees and speaking the languages - it would have made sense to have my wife finish her master's degree and me to relearn my elementary-school French. (I don't remember if First Nations languages counted or only French and English. And French isn't really all that useful in Vancouver, except for immigration, and I don't speak Chinese even though probably more of the locals speak it than French.)
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Close enough to three of the four countries that you mention. But not part of draconian China or chaotic India. City state with a good standard of living. Welcomes people in the service industry. OK
It's a lot easier to move to random places when you're young and single than when you're older, more responsible, and potentially have a spouse or especially kids. And if you don't like it, you can move back home. (In my case, the cool place that I moved was California, and I wasn't young or single when I came here, but it is a big world out there with a lot of places you might like moving.)
The original poster didn't say what part of Southern Europe he's coming from - if it's Italy, France, or Spain, learning Spanish or Portuguese won't be that hard, and Brazil and Argentina are interesting places to go. (Friends of mine moved to Buenos Aires and like it.) Costa Rica's friendly and doesn't have a military, though there's enough political corruption that the economy's not as good as it should be. Canada's nice, though for weather reasons I'm too much of a wimp to consider anywhere but Vancouver, even though I have lived in climates more like Toronto's. Australia and New Zealand seem to be accessible (not sure how the immigration bureaucracy is if you're not from the US or a Commonwealth country.) Singapore's supposedly a very interesting place, but any country that executes people for possessing politically incorrect drugs strikes me as really inhospitable to freedom of thought. (Cousins of mine lived there for a few years, moved to back to the US when their kids were starting school.)
I'll let the Europeans tell you about Europe :-)
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
San Francisco is sitting in the middle of a state about o go broke. He's trying to get away from economic disasters, not trying to move into an incipient one.Same with India--did you notice the small power outage recently? China, serioiusly? I suppose you know something of the political history of the Middle Kingdom, but even moving to Hong Kong might not be long-term secure. Singapore might be a better choice if you want an Asian tiger, can remember not to chew gum while you walk, and are Asian yourself. I only note the last point to remind that racism was not invented in the West, however much work has been done here. Japan is a no-go for that reason, not to mention economic ones.
You might want to take South America, perhaps with the exception of Chile, off the list. Long term prospects of Argentina favor either war or currency collapse--again. Brazil? Possibly, but this will be a harshly two-tier society for a long time to come. The remainder of South and Central America have political and drug cartel problems or are too small to completely insulate themselves against busy neighbors.
Some parts of Europe are still a pretty good bet, Germany, the Scandinavians, the Dutch. Personally, so long as Putin or someone like him is in charge, I'd avoid any part of or any small nation near the former USSR. In the European spots mentioned, you will pay for a significant bureaucratic overhead, but you'll probably be okay. On second thought, I would avoid Malmo, Sweden, unless you're Islamic or don't mind dhimmitude. On third though, that's a problem in the UK, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Norway. Germany, depends.
Africa? Probably not much demand at competitive wages, so aside from tribal, religious, and race concerns (Christian in Nigeria, white in Zimbabwe, etc) there's probably nothing there.
Which leaves North America. Canada, eh? Sure, Probably good on nearly all counts, and very European in an American sort of way. They even speak French of sorts in Kay-beck. The US, despite my opening comment, also has a few good places left. Once you sort things out, you might decide, like millions of other Americans that Texas is where you want to be. I recommend Austin--university town, liberal, but still in a state that values personal drive and won't tax away your income (no VAT, no state income tax), and you get to wear a cowboy hat and boots. Your family will be safe and valued. And people like to mind their own business.
The only problem is getting in. The US welcomes all sort of needy, unskilled people with open arms, so you might have to tell la Migra that you know nothing, nothing! It can take years otherwise if you insist on doing it the right way, i.e. lawfully. Still, who knows? Try this--get accepted at UT, and apply for a student visa. Then just stay. Frankly, if you work hard and pay your bills, nobody's going to care. Most of our ancestors got here by just staying, why should you be different. And if you do get caught make sure you can verify a long Democrat voting record.
Probably Israel.
Not sure where you'd put it, but the current location just isn't working out.
Don't know why anyone ever thought it would.
Oh, you meant what's the best place to which to relocate one's self?
Never mind.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Having lived in Brazil for nearly two decades, I certainly wouldn't recommend it as a good place to live or work.
It is one of the more difficult country to do business (126th place), high in the Perceived Corruption Index (75th place), and the cities of São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro are the twelfth and thirteenth most expensive cities in the world for ex-pats to live (and the two most expensive cities in north and south america).
If you plan on using the internet at all, don't forget that Brazil is the world champion in content removal requests for Google and YouTube content. Just last week, a judge to order the blocking of Facebook in all of Brazil for 24 hours (although that order has been rescinded at the moment).
I love living in Brazil - I really do - but I would not consider it anything like the developed world, such as Australia or New Zealand if you want to start a business or do some serious work.
Choose Australia. As our former PM once declared:"New Zealanders who emigrate to Australia raise the IQ of both countries"
In Australia, there's quite a lot of gaming related business happening on the Gold Coast and Brisbane, both cities in Queensland. If you wanted to take a look at the job market in I.T., Australia wide, the best website to use it Seek.com.au. Hope this helps! -Stolzy