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Major Backlash Looms For Apple's New Maps App
Hugh Pickens writes "Michael DeGusta writes that Apple's new Maps app is the very first item on their list of major new features in iOS 6, but for many iPhone and iPad users around the world Apple's new maps are going to be a major disappointment as the Transit function will be lost in 51 countries, the Traffic function will be lost in 24 countries, and the Street View function will be lost in 41 countries. 'In total, 63 countries with a combined population of 4.5 billion people will be without one or more of these features they previously had in iOS,' writes DeGusta. 'Apple is risking upsetting 65% of the world's population, seemingly without much greater purpose than speeding the removal of their rival Google from iOS. Few consumers care about such battles though, nor should they have to.' The biggest losers will be Brazil, India, Taiwan, and Thailand (population: 1.5 billion) which overnight will go from being countries with every maps feature (transit, traffic, and street view) to countries with none of those features, nor any of the new features, flyover and turn-by-turn directions. Apple's maps are clearly behind in some key areas, but they will presumably continue to improve over time. Google has committed to making their maps available everywhere, so it seems likely Google will release their own iOS maps app soon, as they did with YouTube, which has similarly been removed from iOS 6."
But what percentage of people who actually buy iPhones lost these features?
Most of their customers will grumble about it, and guess what? They'll still buy the next iPhone. Apple's marketing really helps them here.
Hubris will lead to Apple's ultimate downfall.
Umm, doesn't this only affect those who voluntarily upgrade to iOS6 or the iPhone5? It surely is annoying, but at least they're not pulling a sony (e.g. upgrade-to-iOS6-or-you-can't-use-apps kind of update).
Shut the fuck up. Im in Mexico and I sure as hell know it will be piss poor fucked up here. Google works very, very well but it took them a year to do it right. Apple wont do it right. I just know it wont: where are their vans taking pics and surveying my city? I would know if they were doing it. They are nowhere in sight. This really fucking sucks.
NO SIG
I applaud Apple for once again holding the line on features that are simply not ready for prime time. Better to have nothing at all than something that is not invented by Apple.
Horrible analogy, not even close
When did Thailand become the world's largest country by population?
III.IIVIVIXIIVIVIIIVVIIIIXVIIIXIIIIIIIIVIIIIVVIII
This post reminds me of the first mistake most people make when developing business plans and estimating market size:
"Well, there are 7 billion people in the world. 10% of the people I know want this product, so we anticipate reaching 10% of the market. We'll sell our product for $10 and have $7B in sales in year one! "
-Chris
I assume there must be around 5 iPhone users in India :)
iPhone share is less then 5% in India. Don't think it would be a big loss.
With their great maps, up-and-coming location services as well as their brand presence in those aforementioned emerging markets.
I want to play Free Market with a drowning Libertarian.
Just download and add Google Maps back. Surely people (even Apple users) can figure out how to do that.
This time you'd better live down to the expectations of technology pundits.
They're getting really tired of you succeeding despite their most dire prognostications.
Sincerely,
An obviously brainwashed Apple zealot
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
What kind of tech journalism has emerged lately? It seems like every other story on Slashdot I'm yelling at the journalism and I'm not even a journalist.
a) iPhone's never had turn-by-turn direction built-in, this is a new feature which the Google Maps app never had.
b) iPhone's used to have Google Maps app built-in, this will simply be released by Google for free. A 1 minute workaround which most if not all iPhone users are already familiar with. Apple used to have a contract to build-in Google apps, they don't anymore for whatever reason so they rolled a better solution themselves.
c) Apple is not preventing Google or anyone else to continue using the Google Maps features. It still works in the Safari browser including current location through HTML5.
This is yet another guy trolling for page views about things that everyone already knew months ago and nobody complained because it's not a big deal. I don't know why /. is enabling such people.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
... than being dependent on their biggest competitor.
If they had waited until they had *all* the features in *all* countries to roll it out it could mean several more years of Google Maps, which had a severely limited API on the iPhone. The new maps app may be limited, but it's also far more extensible. IIRC they added the ability for an app to register as a data-source for transit or bike paths or walking directions. That's something you couldn't do with the old API. This allows cities and/or transit companies to make their own apps that can account for train/bus schedule a lot more reliably. Maps have turned out to be a critical feature of Mobile OS's. Why wouldn't Apple want to have more direct control over what the Maps in their OS can and can't do?
Google will release a Maps app, just like they released the YouTube app.
Only a sap would grapple with apple's map app. It's a trap.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
You presumably don't have to upgrade to iOS 6 immediately. Or are they removing Google apps across all versions of iOS?
If they are going to remove it altogether then do the obvious thing and either crack your iDevice, or buy an Android tablet instead of putting up with that shit.
which is totally what she said
Would love to see the Google folks have a picture of the walled garden on the splash screen.
I highly doubt that Apple's going to give people lots of warning about why you might *not* want to upgrade.
And they still can't make it as obnoxious as what HP did when they pulled Google Maps in WebOS (which was one of the big selling features of the original Palm Pre) -- it tells you that Google Maps is off, and you have to download the new Maps program. Luckily, it has over the air updates ... so you press a few buttons wait 5-10 minutes, then go and use the inferior product. (no, when I search for 'gas station', I'm not looking for some remote outpost in china with 'station' in the name).
And it *really* sucks in that it's forgotten it's downloaded the thing, or it hasn't bothered replacing the link to the icon ... so every few days, you repeat the drill all over again.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Does anyone believe Google won't release a standalone Google Maps app for iOS? They've done so for every other major service they provide, in some cases providing a better experience on iOS than even on Android.
If anything, maybe we'll finally get turn-by-turn nav in Google Maps on iOS as a result of this.
Why would Google want to abandon tens, or possibly hundreds, of millions of users, when their business model is based on maximizing eyeballs?
On the plus side, between the new iPhone connector and the loss of features like Google Maps, Android's just looking like a nicer alternative. :-)
Check out Unsealed: Whispers of Wisdom! http://unsealed.k3rnel.net It's an action-RPG about Open Sourcerers.
Maybe I'm a bit simplistic on this but what is stopping iOS users from downloading the app they want. My impression is that you'll be able to get Google Maps as a separate app if you want it. Apple has changed the backend data for their application. For some it's better; for some it's worse. As for YouTube, Apple doesn't want to maintain a YouTube app and so it will no longer be available by default. What's stopping others from making such an app? People complain about the walled-garden but then the complain when given more choice.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
The best thing about TFA is that someone actually took the time to sit down and calculate all of that, purely for the sake of hyperbole.
Epic.
i don't need to read it. it's clear who butters slashdot's bread.
Why is Apple always the villain around here? Remember that one time when Google implemented turn-by-turn directions for iOS maps app? Yeah, me neither. Besides, I trust Apple more. With them, I'm the customer. With Goolge I'm the product...with my personal information being sold to advertisers. Google already reads my email, knows my web searches, sees my RSS feeds and more. I want them also knowing where I go?
You like your Macintosh better than me, don't you Dave? Dave? Can you hear me Dave?
"Apple is risking upsetting 65% of the world's population"
Are you fucking kidding me?
I am taking Friday off and plan to disconnect myself from the world for the weekend. Maybe this whole iPhone silliness will have blown over by Monday.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize that Apple had sold 4.5 BILLION iPads and iPhones. This article doesn't deserve clicks it's written so poorly. I'm not an Apple fanboy, (quite the opposit, as evidenced by my Windows 8 RTM laptop and my Windows Phone 7 HTC Arrive) - but this is clearly biased writing. I agree with the person who says "Senationalism!" http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3129133&cid=41388475
The rest of the people with brains will be fine, they don't waste money on iShitOnU (tm) products.
Class me as Troll, at least I wasn't stupid enough to buy anything from a company based on product idea theft.
I must say, based on that the human race is doing really well for itself.
Should we have a celebration of iFacts?
Was Google banned from Appstore? If not, their mapping app will be (if not already) available as a free download for all.
Google stands to lose more in the long run than Apple from this. While I appreciated being able to use public transportation schedules in Bangkok and Hong Kong on my iPhone, that's a small convenience. At the same time having my location, movements and destinations sent to Google in exchange for this convenience is not particularly desirable. I went along with this for the lack of reasonable choice.
Now that a different mapping solution is available, my location will "only" be sent to Apple and their partners. As long as they don't sell this information to Google (that's what competition is good for) this is one less element of comprehensive profile on me that Google can build.
As far as features go, I am sure in time Apple's own maps will get public transportation info for other countries.
BTW, Google public transportation info was off quite a bit (both in US and elsewhere) making it sometimes less than useful. Hope Apple does better. As far as traffic goes, in my experience Google is wrong more often than not (other than generally painting everything yellow-red during rush hour, which is self-evident). They apparently use returned data from mapping apps on mobile devices to gauge traffic conditions (here, another reason they need app on iPhone) I stopped using their traffic information a while ago.
Disclaimer: I don't *like* any large enterprise or product. I use iPhone because it best fits my requirements for mobile device. I am also a Windows and Mac user, and develop software for Windows, Mac, Linux, FreeBSD and a few other platforms. :) In case any of the "anti apple" crowd pull out their usual fanboy slogans.
One thing overlooked in the discussion of iOS6 maps, is that they have a fantastic feature not found on other platforms - the ability to locate applications that help you find routes by region, within the map itself.
What that means is that an application devoted to helping you find your way around a specific city, can register a geofence around that city that applies to that app. When the user is in that city looking up things on the map and wants to find their way to something, they can all up alternate routes and what appears is basically an app store just for that region produced by finding all the apps that have that location inside the geofence they proclaimed.
This will make it really helpful to find guides and other applications specifically tailored to a place without having to hunt across the whole apps store - and it helps the apps get discovered that might not have been otherwise.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I didn't realize how many iPhone users there were. Dang, no wonder Apple has so much money.
Oh, you are counting the population of the entire country... I don't think that is valid when saying how many people it affects. It only affects the people WITH THE PHONES.
You presumably don't have to upgrade to iOS 6 immediately. Or are they removing Google apps across all versions of iOS?
If they are going to remove it altogether then do the obvious thing and either crack your iDevice, or buy an Android tablet instead of putting up with that shit.
No, only if you want to keep using iTunes, iCloud, etc (basically the things that make apple devices worth having) do you need to upgrade. So go ahead and keep iOS 5!
Why are people claiming Apple messed up with this?
First, google originally got their map data from TomTom, just like Apple is doing now.
Second, Google is the one whom has more-or-less stop developing their maps API the day Android was officially announced. This basically forced Apple to find another map provider.
Third, Maps.app has never provided Street View. (Has the author even used the app?)
Forth, Apple actually wrote the maps application to began with. NOT google. Google could have released their app any time in the last 4 years since the app store opened, they haven't.
Fifth, the new Apple Maps App blows away anything we've had on iOS to date. Some areas will have some gaps at first. It really isn't a practical issue for 98% of users worldwide.
Given the population in Thailand/India/Brazil/Taiwan, this shortcoming could be a moot point rather quickly. Just go update the OSM data in each user's area, upload, voila, problem solved.
63 countries with a combined population of 4.5 billion people
Yeah, I'm sure some Bolivian dirt farmer is going to miss the traffic report on his new iPad.
Apple knows damned well who their customer base is. And I bet it isn't in those 63 countries. Those are countries where people are buying $45 android tablets. You think Apple gives a shit about spending extra to keep up with subways and traffic there? Give me a break.
Not that there is any point in feeding this troll, but sure I will bite. International markets are eating up Apple devices, to the tune of 3 out of 4 of them going overseas instead of being sold in the US (in the first quarter of 2012). Sure, the market overall is a smaller slice of each of those countries, given their relatively lower per capita income, but it is a very strong demand that has no sign of slowing down.
I don't know why /. is enabling such people.
Because /. is nothing but one big phat troll. It's existence wouldn't truly be missed by anyone but Dice any longer.
They can do whatever they want with their Maps application, as long as they don't block Google from releasing their own. It's one thing to block other people's applications (such as browsers) because they provide insignificant functionality compared to what you already have. But this is a whole different matter. It's unacceptable to eliminate important functionality that you advertised and that people rely on. It's even worse if you do it because you have some childish pissing match with another company. Sony pulled this shit and paid a serious price for it (although IMO they haven't paid enough). I would hope that Apple learns from Sony's mistake.
Did you even read the article?
(Of course not... this is slashdot).
Countries where the iPhone wasn't available aren't counted among the nations affected (because they aren't. It wasn't available there before, so not having it now makes no difference).
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
We are the 65%!!!
Apple sues the earth for stealing their intellectual property of inventing 'geography'.
Apple claims 3rd party transit apps do a better job, but honestly, they often don't.
I've tried a large number for a few major U.S. cities. If you want to find out every single bus or train that passes nearby, they're just great, but I find them clunky as hell when it comes to route planning, and that's how I believe most people use them most of the time.
"Will I drive or take a train / bus?" is a question without a definite answer in most American cities due to the limited or growing transit systems. For example, L.A. is getting back to its mass transit roots, but there are a lot of trips that really demand a car.
With Google Maps, I can effortlessly switch between auto, transit, biking and walking for a proposed trip. One finger-press and it's done. Then I can see multiple routes on the map, or a plain, readable list. Total time, connections (if any), the next best time to go... It's really ideal and has been indispensable. It's honestly the thing that pushed me over the edge to buy the iPhone in the first place.
On the plus side, between the new iPhone connector and the loss of features like Google Maps, Android's just looking like a nicer alternative. :-)
Ok, so let me get this straight:
Slashdot readers, and especially the multitudinous Fandroid faction, who, by and large, value supporting a computing platform based on its "philosophy", are now going to argue that Apple sticking with an on-again, off-again "Partner/Competitor", (Google), who can take their ball and go home at any time is actually preferable to them "rolling their own" Mapping solution?
If so, the F/OSS "movement" has just jumped the shark on their entire philosophy.
I am currently an iPhone user, but never bought into the whole "Apple can do no wrong" aspect of things. It was a functional device that allowed me to do what I wanted with it.
But I'm not going to buy an iPhone 5 when my upgrade comes around in November. I was honestly considering a Lumia, but not if all I'm going to be given the option of (being on Verizon) some lower end model. If they do pick up the 920, then I may seriously consider giving it a purchase.
Otherwise, I'll end up with an S3. I'm not married to any particular type of phone (had the original Moto Droid, with no real complaints) but I do tend to dislike when companies do things that just don't seem to make sense from a consumer standpoint. I am aware they don't want Google anything on their phones anymore, for obvious reasons, but I don't like anything done at the cost of experience. Being petty and spiteful really does not serve others well.
When iPhone first came out, remember that YouTube was the top secret super feature and Jobs was lauded as the greatest hero in the universe for coding and testing it all by himself.
But if Apple is the one making YouTube, Google Maps, and other services "droid only", it can only help Google.
Why should Google release iOS apps? I know they want to gather as much data as possible, and iOS is pretty liberal when it comes to telling you everything you want to know about the owner - so I guess I answered my own question.
BULLSHIT!
There is NOTHING forcing you to upgrade to iOS6 other than getting access to the new features in iOS6.
You can still connect to iTunes, iCloud, etc.
For fuck's sake, I know we fucking hate all things Apple, but can we stop spreading bullshit?
Sooooo.... I'm confused here. Google is committed to releasing their map app available for download on the iPhone for free. Apple is replacing a map app that Google purposefully makes feature poor in comparison to the same app on their own platform. (no turn by turn navigation in the iOS version, no offline map caching on the iOS) with a home-baked version that they have full control over the future of.
What are Apple users losing? Are these same users incapable of downloading software on their phones?
Yeah ok, let me know how refusing updates from apple works out for you.
This isn't a loss of features, this is a purification of your experience.
Functionality loses out to brand name so often when it comes to the gadgets they buy it's ridiculous. It's all about having the newest, shiniest, most expensive toy to flip out in front of the loser next to you in order to prove your one of the cool kids. Damn to hell you other peons and your more robust gadget...mine's prettier and cost more!
Your argument makes no sense.
You equate "rolling your own" proprietary application with F/OSS "movement". This is incongruous..
You equate Android support with support for F/OSS. This is not necessarily the case.
The OP stated that Apple's new connector and the loss of Google's applications as a reason to consider using Android, and you made it into a nonsensicle rant against F/OSS.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
It'll be a rough start and I don't blame them for being upset but it's far better than everyone becoming reliant on Google.
I live in India, where the cost of a iPhone 4s is currently on the higher side of the smartphone market. To put it in perspective, you can get an android device from anywhere between 10% to 100% of the cost of an iPhone. With the Android system, you are guaranteed access to all the tried and tested Google applications like maps. Google have acknowledged the rise of the Indian consumer market by investing more money and resources to better the Indian maps by incorporating traffic, etc. Slow yes, but definitely steady, as India will shortly represent a significant chunk of the smartphone market worldwide. Now, if Apple want to compete in this lucrative market, they would need to either ensure that they invest comparative resources and money into making their maps applications more India friendly (along with all the other impacted countries that represent new and viable markets), or they need to ensure that they do not block native Google applications. I somehow do not get the feeling that Apple are seeing things the former way, and it would be several iOS releases before their maps applications make any headway. By that time, they would have already lost the battle to Google and the myriad range of android devices out there.
I regret buying an iphone instead of an Android phone a couple of years ago. Apple is doing the same thing they did with the Macintosh.
On the plus side, between the new iPhone connector and the loss of features like Google Maps, Android's just looking like a nicer alternative. :-)
Ok, so let me get this straight:
Slashdot readers, and especially the multitudinous Fandroid faction, who, by and large, value supporting a computing platform based on its "philosophy", are now going to argue that Apple sticking with an on-again, off-again "Partner/Competitor", (Google), who can take their ball and go home at any time is actually preferable to them "rolling their own" Mapping solution?
If so, the F/OSS "movement" has just jumped the shark on their entire philosophy.
1: The preferred situation is for Apple to develop their own maps/etc. program and let it live alongside Google's (and Microsoft's - Bing's maps are great, but there's no live navigation / etc.) and let the users choose.
2: The open source "movement" has nothing to do with Android. Android is no longer open source. It hasn't been since 2.2.Something. The latest version is always closed and you have to pay Google to get in on it. The older versions are released as open source (AOSP). Good luck getting them to work with your closed hardware, closed radio, etc., and if you're an OEM good luck competing with the OEMs who paid up and are launching devices with one major version ahead of you every single time.
Has anyone stopped to think about the other major change in the "Mapping" abilities introduced in iOS6?
Turn-by-Turn Navigation.
So, instead of just another Slashdot Hate-Fest, perhaps the real reason behind the change is that, maybe, just maybe, Apple had to do their own Mapping-thing in order to do turn-by-turn Navigation?
Think about it: Do any of the standalone or "Mobile App" Navigation products use Google's map database? I don't think they do. So perhaps it is actually Google who is "driving" (no pun) this change.
Afterall, Apple has to be spending 10 metric buttloads of cash to develop this ability. There is more behind this than simple "We have a better way." Apple isn't even close to being fiscally stupid; and an undertaking of this magnitude wasn't just a case of Apple saying "neener, neener, neener" to Google, especially because they gotta know this is going to cause them some temporary ill-will.
Is this really news? Apple has yet again opted to screw its users in order to attempt to make more money. This strategy has NEVER worked for them in the past. The only successful marketing strategy that the company has ever been able to execute (and only in the last 6 years) is to sell quality products at reasonable prices. They've got quite a track record for screwing over third party hardware and software vendors, and abusing their own users in the process. I was hoping this short-sighted land grab crap was going to end once Steve Jobs kicked the bucket, but apparently not.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
Amazing how Apple can risk upsetting 65% of the world's population when they've only sold products that could be effected by this change to *up to* 4.6% of said world population, with the likely number falling well below that due to repeat sales to the same individuals.
Let's do the math:
World Population: 7 Billion
Number of iOS Devices Sold: 400,000,000
iPhone 2G Units Sold: 6.1 Million
iPhone 3G Units Sold: 20.25 Million
iPod Touch 1st - 3rd Generations Units Sold: 32 Million
iPad 1St Generation Units Sold: 19.48 Million
Total iOS Units that will not get the "New Maps": 77.83 Million
Total Effected iOS Devices: 32,617,000
Does it suck that their offering is less mature than Google's, of course, however Google has also announced that they will be providing an updated version of their Maps app via Apple's App Store, so if you aren't happy with what the mighty Apple provides, than give it a couple weeks and let someone else fill the void.
It is just amazing to think that people really think that companies like Apple really have the power to impact the lives of 65% of the world population through changing a back-end web service on a small subset of their devices.
Thirty four characters live here.
Though I'm a bit pissed that Google replaced Yelp ratings with Zagat.
Well then you might want to consider getting an iOS6 device, which uses Yelp for ratings... :-)
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Some people really hate that the iphone can't stream movies to a TV
It can, using AirPlay. Or, if you have a newer iPad/iPhone there's a direction connection cable that mirrors the display on the TV.
I will tell you the traffic data on google is crap, so when I want such data I go to the local web site that is dedicated to my city
Like the AC said, get Waze. This has crowdsourced traffic... but also Apple wil be offering crowdsourced traffic to (in fact because of the Waze partnership it might even BE Waze traffic data).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Maybe minor grumbling. People are underestimating the effects of Apple marketing and genuine ability to connect with users. Getting maps as good as Google will just take money, they've got the software down. And Apple don't lack money, I am sure there are millions being thrown right now getting the maps as good as Google's, it won't take long. Until then, Apple users will live with it just like Apple users have lived with limitations because Android has never made tings user friendly enough or sold features properly. Apple users so far have lived with absurd restrictions on Facetime, on download size over 3G,sharing options (and still will, Facebook and Twitter integration is fine, but nothing beats Android where you can share over anything), not being able to attach files, email not being as good as Gmail, no 4G, and until now, an inferior mapping experience without turn by turn navigation. It's a combination of the genuine user friendliness of Apple devices and their insistence on doing things right when they do, and the fact that their marketing is good enough to make Apple fans live in a different universe, where an Apple feature introduced long after others (usually Android) is still new to them with all credit given to Apple. I am sure they pulled down the iOS 5 notification drawer last year and went WOW! Like the person who was showing me how cool FaceTime on his iPhone is and how Apple is so cool because of it. The fact that Android devices can do the same over Skype and Google talk, over 3G and WiFi, to iOS and non iOS devices didn't even figure on his horizon.
tl;dr
If Google want even a minority iOS users using their maps, they need an app out there asap. It will soon be too late. Being a bit better than iOS maps won't count for much, Apple users don't go out of their way to look for alternatives to Apple services, and Apple make sure their services are easy to use, immediately accessible, and 'cool'.
This a good thing.
Google has had its hands tied for Maps on iOS since they were under contract and were the provider for the native app, but Apple controlled the actual app.
With this freed up, Google is free to put out a standalone iOS Maps app that is way better then the old one was.
Then you'll have a great Google Maps app (presumably free), and the native Maps app
Yes, Apple omitting a London Tube station from a map of London is kind of a killer fail. The images show the user about 100m from a Central Line tube station, but Apple is going to make him walk about a mile to another station.
Is turn-by-turn navigation that important in a handheld device? That's more of a feature for a car-mounted device. You shouldn't be looking at a smartphone while driving, anyway.
Save web page as link on the home screen so going forward there is only step one, launch google maps.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Mod parent up, not down.
If I didn't know better, sometimes I'd believe that 3/4ths of slashdotters were astroturfers fighting the battles of their overlords.
Will Apple make their clientele suffer the death from a thousand cuts by cutting the quality and openness of their devices? That's for Apple to decide. Apple is by no means a democracy.
As for Google, you sacrifice most of your personal info to get the juicy maps. Is there a solution where locational privacy and great maps intersect? Not in the "free" model, but perhaps there is in the "open" model.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
You have turn-by-turn navigation for IOS from Google in Mexico???
I didn't think so. Waze and the other turn-by-turn navigation for IOS are unaffected.
However, now we have an additional choice.
People who buy iPhones may well use those features in more than one country -- I live in the USA, but I've used the features Street View and Traffic on my iPhone in Mexico (which is on the list of countries in which all three features are lost with the iOS 6 "update".)
And, for 2 of the 3 features (Street View and Transit) one of the countries they were lost in -- from the lists in TFA -- is "USA". I think a fair percentage of iPhone users are affected by that.
Considering half the people I know who just ordered the iphone5 didn't even read about it or look at the keynote.. That sir is marketing.
So they didn't see ANYTHING and you claim that to be marketing.
In fact what you are describing is called TRUST. People have had good experiences with Apple, so they know they can buy a product from them and expect they will be pleased with the result.
However I seriously doubt they did not read anything about the iPhone 5 beforehand. Given the annoying degree to which every single news source on the internet pours over iPhone rumors before a launch, they probably know every detail of the iPhone 5, even if they didn't want to.
apple could wrap a turd in a box and sell it to them
Only once, and only because of the non-turds they have sold before.
The fact that Apple does not drop half-finished products on people is why people will buy without knowing much about the product other than it is from Apple.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I think he was wondering why the app was not moved to the app store as an option instead of forced removal. The reason of course has to do with the licensing of the app ..
That's not the whole reason, although it's some of it - Apple wrote the app, and they do not want to continue to maintain it for Google.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Ah, the tolerant and completely non-homophobic Slashdot Brain Trust chimes in once again. Yeah, getting *that* enraged over another person's choice of gadget is the shining picture of mental health.
http://source.android.com/
I'm sorry, you were saying something stupid?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
They are doing exactly the same thing they did when Steve Jobs left the first time.
They have become scared, call minor change 'innovation' and loosing focus on the product.
I hope I ma wrong, but 5 is exactly what I said it would be, and I suspect after the 1 years anniversary of Jobs death, there will have been a noticeable lessening of momentum at Apple.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Spoken like someone who hasn't tried it. Go ahead, I dare you.
How does spending their own money doing their own map app make them more money?
The tube station is marked at a higher zoom level (to be fair it SHOULD be visible at that level too, but it's not missing).
Also the park is correctly named "Victoria Park", again at a higher zoom level. What confused them was that the park is the center of the Bethany Green area, so that note falls on the park and just happens to look like a park name.
Also the complaint about no third party app to get underground directions? Come on, Apple just started accepting third party submissions for iOS6 apps a week ago!
The tube feeder roads are kind of present in that they are specific sorts of lanes on that road... look at it in satellite mode, that's a nightmare intersection no matter how you cut it.
No visual distinction between A & B roads - frankly I'm not seeing why there should be. The roads look roughly identical in usability to me, but perhaps to someone in London the difference is crucial... can someone explain why?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Was that supposed to be a relevant analogy?
"It gets worse. Even in countries where turn-by-turn and/or Flyover are available, the iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, and the 4th generation iPod touch won’t support them. These devices are owned by tens of millions of users who may update over-the-air when prompted, only to find they’ve lost features and haven’t even gained any of the marquee Maps features in return."
"seemingly without much greater purpose than speeding the removal of their rival Google from iOS"
I think it's much more likely that they're doing so because of Google's ever-increasing prices for Maps data, combined with Google's refusal hand out turn-by-turn directions to Apple and other customers.
Let's not forget, Apple is not the only high profile customer to dump Maps in the last couple of months. Google seems to be turning many of their features into Android-only ones.
So, I don't understand this anger. Can't you just go to maps.google.com on Safari on your phone and access the functions there?
This entire post is based on the idea that massive amounts of people are going to be "upset" that they will "lose" functionality.
Instead of clicking a maps app, you open safari, type in maps.google.com, and there you go. How is this a big problem? Why is there even an article about this?
Christ in a chicken basket.
People here bitch when apple does something a 3rd party app does, costing precious jobs and innovation, now a space opens for devs and we're upset? O-noes.
I LIVED on traffic from google, but then I got a 2nd app because it wasn't always the best . . .
We're not partying like it's 1999, and these are NOT monochrome verizon phones that you can't install anything but their software on.
Get a grip.
Where can I download the source for the Honeycomb version?
Where can I download the source for the Google Play store?
Where can I download the source for Google Maps?
I'm sorry, you were saying something stupid?
Then might I suggest not reading the article or comments instead of acting like a superior douchebag? thanks, bye.
What? Sixty-five percent of the world's population will be upset by the map application? Does 65% of the world's population have an iOS device or rely on one?
The Luddites were ahead of their time.
I got ----ed last week in Montreal because at some point I had accidentally clicked on the "bus" icon.
I would have made it through just before rush hour, but that stupid phone directing me to follow bus routes got me behind schedule by 15 minutes, which was all that was needed to completely hose my schedule.
Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
"Google will have Maps as a standalone app..."
Do you have a qualified reference for this, or are you making assumptions?
And what evidence do you have that Apple will not simply reject any possible future Google Maps app on the basis that it "duplicates internal functionality"?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
"the Transit function will be lost in 51 countries, the Traffic function will be lost in 24 countries, and the Street View function will be lost in 41 countries. 'In total, 63 countries with a combined population of 4.5 billion people will be without one or more of these features they previously had in iOS,' writes DeGusta. 'Apple is risking upsetting 65% of the world's population"
Wow! What a massive abuse of statistics that statement is... Get real. 4.5 billion people don't have iPhones. Talk about absurd statements.
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/09/how-google-builds-its-maps-and-what-it-means-for-the-future-of-everything/261913/
In total, 63 countries with a combined population of 4.5 billion people will be without one or more of these features they previously had in iOS
When 4.5 billion people actually have iPhones, I'll start worrying about this. As it stands it is a feature that will only be noticed as missing by a tiny percentage of the roughly 80 million people who actually have iPhones. While it is a genuinely nice feature that is (at least for a while) lost, it is hardly going to cause a "major backlash". Frankly relatively few people even realize that walking directions were possible. It's a nice feature if you happen to live where you can walk everywhere but for the vast majority of the US and many other parts of the world it is a useless feature. I suspect Apple is working on getting the feature back but presumably they had to start somewhere and driving directions are by far the most important turn-by-turn directions to have.
I live in Perú and i can tell you that the breach between Google Maps and the new Apple Maps app is huge. The last week I did a small trip to a town in the Andean. While Google Maps had all roads Apple only shows the towns name. The Google Maps app using HTML5 was worthless the web app doesn't seem to find my location (maybe a api change). So I'm one of the disappointed iPhone users and I'll be waiting for a proper solution directly from Google. I think it may change my mind when I switch my phone later this year.
Where, exactly, do you propose that an iOS6 user download this alleged Google Maps app from?
The way I see it there are three options:
1) If Apple Maps really sucks so badly and Google does release it's maps app for iOS 6 (porting the existing one to iOS 6 should be really easy) one would think that most regular Google Maps users would simply download the Google mapping app from the Appstore. Nothing much changes until Apple Maps starts to not suck and it seems it will take a while before that happens
2) Google crawls into a corner to sulk and decides to 'punish' Apple by refusing to release a native Google Maps app for iOS 6. However, since the only reason Google Maps exists in the first place is to enable Google to harvest certain location data from mobile users (according to them anonymously) it would be very bad business for Google to suddenly retire it's most powerful harvesting tool and miss out on location data from the hoard of (what is it now, tens of millions?) of iOS users simply out of spite and loose out on all that location data. Apple users are stuck with a crappy mapping app unless and until some third party creates a Google Maps front end for iOS.
3) Apple rejects the Google Maps and any other competing Mapping app because it 'replicates functionality already present in iOS'. In that case we will probably see some very interesting lawsuits unfold.
Which do you think is most likely?
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
What, instead of a minor douchebag? die in a fire.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Why is this moderated "Troll"? Poor or not, lets not pretend that more than 10% of those 4.5 billion give any iFucks.
May Peace Prevail On Earth
What gave you the impression that I would want or own any iDevices? :p I have a HTC One S, Xoom and a Transformer Infinity..
which is totally what she said
The article is sensational: I did know there were 4.5 billion Apple users--mind that 4.5 billion potential Apple users.
Much like 48% of the US population is under welfare--this is using numbers to fake a context.
people kill people > guns kill people, but guns do kill.
Google Play and Maps are not part of the OS. There's a difference between open-sourcing an OS and open-sourcing the OS and everything you ever wrote that runs on that OS.
Why would you want the Honeycomb source? Newer versions have had their source code released. Is there some reason you would want the older version that wasn't as good?
"Duckfacing b*tches and hipsters are driving into lakes rivers and buildings using new iPhone nav system"
I have perfectly good navigation i can live with. God knows what this thing is gonna do right now. It will take years to get me the functionality I have right now. For example, street view is godsend in Mexico where we have like a thousend streets with the same names: you go into street view and verify that what you pinned is, in effect, a restaurant.... etc.
Google made the effort for our quirks. Apple is gonna take ages to get it right. But well, we will get an App from google I hope. Id even pay for the damned thing.
NO SIG
Try using iOS 5 in your shiny new iPhone 5 for sale since next Friday.
63 countries with a combined population of 4.5 billion people
Yeah, I'm sure some Bolivian dirt farmer is going to miss the traffic report on his new iPad.
Apple knows damned well who their customer base is. And I bet it isn't in those 63 countries. Those are countries where people are buying $45 android tablets. You think Apple gives a shit about spending extra to keep up with subways and traffic there? Give me a break.
You have most of Western Europe on two of those lists. Your argument is that Apple doesn't consider us their customer base. Got it.
Yep. Since I would have had to replace all of my cables anyway, I investigated switching to an Android phone, and in the end I went with a Samsung S3 (from an iPhone 3GS). Some things are better on the iPhone, other things are better on the Android. I'm happy with my purchase, though - I don't think I would've been as happy with the iPhone 5.
You mean a company can't be all things to everybody!??! What is happening to the world?
Can't you just install the Google apps again from the Appstore?
The released ICS source includes the full history of the Android source code tree and the 2 apps you name are not part of the android os. I'm sorry, you were trolling stupid?
The new App Store on iOS6 is a total fail. Do a search in the new app store and you get the "lovely" (NOT) new card view.
First off, you get to see only 1 app at a time, so you have to waste time swiping past 5,10,20 different apps. That's a lot of swipes. Oh and did you figure out yet that you can't swipe fast? That's right, the current version takes almost a full second to load the next card (even if you are 10 ft from your router). Swipe too fast and it just stays on the current card. That includes swiping backwards to the cards you already saw. No more flinging back to the top.
Enjoy, and schedule that appointment with your doctor now to treat that RSI ("Repetitive Swipe Injury"). They'll be all booked up soon.
Only not quite as well as it used to.
You are correct up to the point that app developers start ditching support for iOS 5. I'm not sure how long that will take, but I remember not being able to download new apps onto my iPhone 3G because I refused to load a new version of iOS which would have crippled the performance of the phone. After a while, I was unable to download new apps because most of those apps required the new OS. What's worse is that I could have sworn those apps once supported my version of iOS, but the App Store didn't appear to be serving those older versions anymore which meant that if I didn't download the app while it was available, I didn't get it at all. But I could be wrong about that last point.
What's kinda frustrating is that clicking the "transit" button tells you to buy a 2.99 app, and you're not even sure that it's the right app.
Applications have to define a geofence they can provide directions for. So if you see an app listed that means the developer claimed it could provide transit directions for that exact location.
Also there will be more choice over time, as more applications are built to help provide transit directions.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
[grammar nazi]
Affected not..... Effected....
[/grammar nazi]
I didn't use them where I live, but I did use them in cities I travelled to.
It's a loss but I think in the end having third party apps handle this will result in a better experience. Perhaps not for the first few months, but you'll get more apps that are built to provide more accurate data - and it gives transit providers a reason to create transit applications because they are found in the maps app itself.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
http://source.android.com/
I'm sorry, you were saying something stupid?
You should read the post you're responding to before responding.
That's not the latest version. OEMs that pay up have had access to that shit for 3-6 months and are actively working on shit that is one or two major versions ahead of the open source version at all times. For all OEMs that want to seriously compete in the market, that code is useless. For all hobbyists that want to embrace an open source platform, that code is nearly useless. Additionally, it doesn't include the core Google applications, which are only "not part of Android" if you don't consider the overall user experience that the marketing campaign espouses to be part of Android.
If OEMs want to compete in the big leagues they have to pay up. Smaller OEMs will release cheaper phones on the older (open) versions, then if they're moderately successful they'll release higher-end phones on the older (open) versions and rush out a patch when the open version gets updated (and then users will beg their carriers to push it out OTA). Then they realize that situation is shitty and either stick to the older version with cheaper phones, or pony up cash and lick the boot of Google to compete in the high end.
If hobbyists want to do shit they either do shit that's useful to no one because you need open hardware, or they do shit that only half works because it's based on closed (but well poked at) hardware, or they do shit that works but involves the ol' *wink wink* *nudge nudge* about what the ROM was really based off of and where you can get the Google Play Store, Google Maps, etc., which makes it legally dubious and a failure in terms of being open source.
You may as well say XBOX Live is free and point at the silver membership as proof while saying "It's still XBOX Live!".
Unless you have some calculation otherwise, the default position would be that 65% lose it.
But I guess you figure that those wogs just don't deserve those features and it's fully justified by Apple's spat with Google, right?
I went and upgraded, although I'll miss the transit route-finding. Turn-by-turn is a nice feature, but I bought a third party app for that long ago, so it's not a major selling point for me. But there are plenty of other apps that will tell me when the next bus or train is due, so I'll only miss the transit routes if I have to go somewhere new. And Apple is encouraging other app developers to fill this gap (perhaps even Google, since they were already doing it), so this should be a temporary issue. And there's actually room for improvement on Google's approach. The problem with Google's method is that it would sometimes give you a route that would leave you stranded for an extended period of time if your train or bus ran late and you missed Google's projected connection. I'd love to have an app that could tell me the most robust transit route--the one that would get me to my destination earliest if I missed the projected connection(s). So perhaps this will serve a stimulus to other developers to step into the gap.
Haha, you really think that the tight integration afforded by Android and by the integrated i OS Gmaps will be available?
If you click on an address, where do you think you're going to be directed to? Your own preselected GPS navigator (be it gmaps or any of the other companies, or the built in one?
Having an application is not anywhere near the same.
you can get what others get without the separate product.
And this is good HOW?
Enjoy your security holes.
*Releases "world's best" smartphone. No MMS*
The Google based Maps app for iOS 5 doesn't have traffic, public transportation or Street View here in Mexico, unless it works very different for the users at Mexico City Metropolitan area, but in Japan it does have the Public transportation features, even if it's time estimates are normally very off the mark. For Public Transportation I use the Metro app. Despite being free is one of the best apps that I have used, it justified in large part the purchase of an iPod Touch and my wife's and my own smartphones. More than the lack of many of these advanced options by Apple, is necessary that in many countries, including Mexico, the information about traffic and public transportation routes becomes more easily available. The public transport information in my state, for example, does a heavy use of Google Maps, but in a very disorganized way.
Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
This was in the pipe line before Jobs died. Products like this just don't poof out of the air in such a short time span.
At least he didn't compare copyright infringement to theft :)
This is actually good for consumers. You see Google doesn't want to lose that sweet advertising money they get from their maps app, so as a consequence they will be forced to release an application for the iOS. We all expected that. However, Google now has to compete with the Apple maps app, therefore they will be forced to beat it out on features so that people are more likely to use Google then Apple. That almost necessarily means that Google will update their app to be more in line with the Android platform. So I expect to not only have a Google maps app on short order, but a google maps app with turn by turn directions and all of the other features only available on android
Try using iOS 5 in your shiny new iPhone 5 for sale since next Friday.
What? I think I need to brush up on my Douglas Adams, that sentence is written in a tense I'm not familiar with.
Your comment appears to suggest that iPhone 4 users will be forced to upgrade to the iPhone 5, and that no other option exists. I know we're knee deep in fanbois here, but owners of previous iPhone versions have multiple options available to them:
Seriously, the upgrade isn't mandatory...
"Space Exploration is not endless circles in low earth orbit." -Buzz Aldrin
Bogus maps plus a new connector is a deal killer for me. My next phone will be an Android. Steve jobs must be turning over in his grave.
I'm interested in picking up a second-hand iPhone 4S when the new model hits the street.. If someone already upgrades their 4S to iOS6, can it be downgraded?
I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
The part where they make it sound like Apple is shitting all over 4 billion people on purpose, as if all the countries losing traffic and street view were places where every one of those 4 billion people all had iPhones.
I'd bet 3 billion or so of those people don't have clean water or flush toilets, it's hard to see not having traffic updates as being the final thing that drives them over the edge.
"buy iPhones lost these features?"
Actually, since - and including - my very first mobile phone which I bought in '99, I always hae bought phones based on their features. If more of them had the features, then came the looks.
Not surprisingly, the above has also been the cause that I never bought an iPhone up to now (seen, tried, but never bought), and I'm surely no starting now, since I could list about half a dozen phones right now that have better* features and nicer looks.
[*] of course it's just my opinion
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
How about losing ALL of them? Thanks to the new provider and their antiquated maps whole countries will no longer have any street maps. If you're going to any of the exYU countries don't expect to be able to use Apple's Maps app. Only major roads are supported and, oddly, some landmarks are shown but no streets.
Google Earth is there, as well 100s (literally) of other mapping applications. It would be quite unusual to have Google maps singled out somehow but not any of the above.
As far as availability - well, if it's not available Google will be the one to lose, but I'd be willing to bet a few $ that the app will be in appstore in due time.
I live in Romania and i was using iGo anyway; google maps didn't have what i needed here. Same probably goes for more countries around me. :)
So when i upgrade my phone to iOS 6... i will be still using iGo
I apologize for the lack of a signature.
Why would you want the Honeycomb source?
Ok I get it. All Android is open source but some Android is more open source than others.
You're assuming that Apple will allow Google's updated Maps app, rather than banning it as "duplication of existing functionality".
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
You are a class A jackass. Just thought you'd like to know.
That word does not mean what you think it does, Sambo.
>For fuck's sake, I know we fucking hate all things Apple, but can we stop spreading bullshit?
Hey! You wanna put some people out of a job?
You'd have to ask them. I sincerely doubt it won't make them a nickel. But I'm sure some marketing stooge in the bowels of Apple is sure that it will solidify their brand to only ship Apple brand applications with their new devices, giving them a platform to synerigistically leverage their common assets. It's certainly not about providing the best service for their customers, that's for damn sure.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
>call minor change 'innovation' and loosing[sic] focus on the product. .. ?
You call creating a whole new map application 'minor change'
Call me when you get back from your 'minor' trip to the moon...
Well, if they're getting it early they must me stroking their cocks with it or something because most/all of the major players are STILL shipping new products running ancient versions of Android.
I was just looking at the maps app and noticed that when you're zoomed in far enough to see the streets, one section in my city, Calgary, are covered by clouds! The clouds and their shadows completely obscure the view of the homes and streets. Practically the whole community of Rundle is missing.
The native Google Maps app on iOS sucked. The new iteration of maps with turn-by-turn navigation is a huge improvement; and the old public transit options are still available on iOS by visiting maps.google.com, even from Safari.
So you're going with the "Linux is better than Windows|Apple|FreeBSD!" and "Linux is just a kernel!" argument. You know back in the day where we'd be told in the same comment thread that Linux is a better web server/app server/database server, then when someone pointed out a short coming in some part of the system, some other dweeb would come along and say linux is just the kernel. (In which case Linux isn't good for anything because as a kernel Linux doesn't even have boot loading capabilities, nor a way to start up user land processes, etc.)
You've got to decide, either you get to argue user land features or you get to argue kernel. But it's quite dishonest to flip back and forth.
I'm not going with any sides to your argument. What part of my comment said "Linux is better than Windows|Apple|FreeBSD!"? I'm making no claim to anything being better or not. I was pointing out to a commenter further upthread why Android could be open source and the Play store and Maps apps be closed source.
The Play store and Maps apps are definitely not part of Android no matter how you want to define it. It is fully functional without either.
Apple can't compete with the monopoly Google has on data. This means data intensive apps, like this one, will simply not be as good.
They probably don't consider us as customers. I live in both Germany and Spain and everyone uses an adroid device (tablet/phone). Not many have apple devices. At least nowadays.
No one uses the google app anyway. Google does a crap job in Korea. they're maps are inaccurate missing streets, etc. They've had to play catch up for years and never really caught up. The local companies provide far better apps. No one is losing anything here.
There is NOTHING forcing you to upgrade to iOS6 other than getting access to the new features in iOS6.
security fixes? if there are not any now, there will be at some point.
are you suggesting that making users choose between not upgrading their entire OS and losing access to an important application is good thing?
They are doing exactly the same thing they did when Steve Jobs left the first time. They have become scared, call minor change 'innovation' and loosing focus on the product.
From the historical standpoint, I disagree.
Apple innovated plenty after Steve Jobs left. Or did we forget about the Macintosh II? 32-bit color? Multiple display support? Hypercard? QuickTime?
That said, I'm talking about the historical standpoint. I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying about Apple today.
Does Google Earth do routes?
Keep in mind that those other apps offered functionality that Apple's did not provide--namely turn-by-turn directions. Now that Apple's app provides these, watch these other apps start to receive "static" from Apple.
Think back to the Kindle app. When Apple released iBooks, they didn't kick Kindle off the store. Of course, you could no longer buy books from within your Kindle app. You couldn't even be sent to a web page where you could buy books. So I wouldn't be surprised to see anybody who tries to improve their app to suddenly start getting flak from Apple--y'know, finding that they're violating some obscure part of the App Store terms of service or having the TOS change so that these people are essentially wiped out.
Personally, if I were Google, I would do a press release telling everybody that, "Nope. Sorry. We can't do a version for the iPhone because our lawyers say it would not be allowed. We already went down that route with Google Voice, spending the time and effort to develop the app only to have Apple nix it. We won't waste our shareholders' money again on such ventures. If iPhone users would like a Google Maps application, let Apple know and they will hopefully allow us to do so. Otherwise, you can use our Safari-optimized web page."
Because 99% of what they've done here is copied from other peoples ideas, yet they use patents to prevent others copying their ideas. Worse still, some of those patents are not even there own ideas.
They've made themselves into the villain.
Mod parent down, not up.
With Google Maps you don't have to give them any personal information, this is pure, unadulterated FUD. The only personal info Google maps asks for is your location and you can decline to give this to Google maps (but you cant use it for navigation). Any Application or device that does turn by turn navigation is going to require your precise (fine) location.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
They are doing exactly the same thing they did when Steve Jobs left the first time.
They have become scared, call minor change 'innovation' and loosing focus on the product.
Erm, calling minor change 'innovation' is exactly what Steve Jobs did (that and repackaging other peoples ideas and calling them 'innovation').
Apple hasn't changed one bit, they are exactly the same under Cook as they were under Jobs. It's your perception of them that has changed because Jobs isn't there. This is the problem with basing a product around a cult of personality, once the personality is gone the whole thing falls apart even if the product exactly the same (or even if the product improved). I've been telling people this for 5 years now.
The move away from Google has been planned for some time, ever since Schmit was removed from Apples board. The only difference is the reaction would have been different if Jobs had of delivered it instead of Cook. Cook has been following Jobs' doctrine to the letter, including the "thermonuclear" law suits against it's competitors (Yes, Cook has had every chance to go back to the negotiating table, he refused).
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
I can't speak for the iPhone since I don't have a smartphone at all, but on the PC and the Mac, updates are pretty much mandatory if you want to keep using them as general-purpose machines.
Walk into a store, and tell me how many Mac applications require the latest version of OSX. How many Windows applications require the latest service pack? Now that we're moving towards the Cloud (whether we like it or not), how long can we hold out on updating the OS while still being able to use new apps? 3 years? 1 year? 6 months? For Windows, it seemed like it was 6-10 years, which was plenty. For Apple, it used to be about 3 years. For smart phones, it appears to be less than that.
On the PC, we used to get updates for free that let us keep using new software. People used to buy new stuff because they wanted higher performance and newer features, not because they had to. Now that hardware is "good enough" and there's less reason to update regularly, we're in the habit of being forced to buy brilliant, revolutionary versions of the OS (ie, service packs) that make our machines massively slower and shove tons of needless eye candy down our throats to boot. I don't like it, and neither do a lot of "old timers." We know how things used to be before all these disposable devices took over the market.
Yeah, not updating isn't going to disable our old software. I'm still using XP for my workstation for crying out loud. But don't go around telling people they can just keep running their old OS and everything will be fine, because the software world just doesn't work that way once "apps" enter the picture.
Zero metro directions in Berlin using Google maps when I was there early this year.
But iOS6 can have them with an app.
The fact is that Google Maps are not wholly complete when it comes to transit.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You really want an app for every town you end up in?
When I go traveling I often do this anyway. So yes, actually, I do.
Partly because that app can know that town and metro better than Google can.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I'm seeing apps that are only just starting to require iOS4... so it will probably be a while before 6 is a requirement. Certainly well after Apple sorts out its launch jitters (assuming they finally put a competent engineer on search, which numerous products of theirs over the years indicate has not happened)
How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
Google Maps (iOS = 5) never had turn by turn directions. If you care about the public transit directions, bookmark the web app which works nearly identically to the old native one.
How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
iPhone 5 preorders more than doubled that of the 4S. Both their stock and profits are at record highs. Care to explain how that is a decline in momentum? I suggest not just repeating the same nonsensical crap tech pundits spew in an attempt to grab a few extra page views.
How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
False. Think about what you said. You should be ashamed of yourself. Your location and your IP. Should you take a photo and append it to your IP address and where you're going?
You give them statistics of where you're going. Where you are. The time, the date. You don't think they know who's at the destination?? Add all this stuff up. Look at your reply.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
If I'm ashamed of anyone I'm ashamed of you, because judging from the utter tripe you keep posing you obviously have no shame.
As I said, you dont actually have to give Google your location in Google Maps, in fact it's set by default to deny the Maps application access to GPS and location data, you have to select a checkbox to allow it to have that data outside the maps application.
The checkbox is in "Settings - Location Services" and if you haven't got "Google Location Services" checked Android denies access to location services for Google applications. This alone proves you clearly have no idea what you are on about.
Here's a statement from Google telling me the complete opposite of the crap you posted
A. Google Maps doesn't record your location in any way. To find out about how your browser obtains your location, and how it protects your privacy, see your browser's Geolocation documentation using the links above.
but let me guess, the statement is a lie, right?
Sorry but I believe Google over you who've I've already caught lying.
Then again, I doubt very much you are interested in the truth and just want to rabidly attack Google for no reason. As I said, I'm ashamed of you for the both of us.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
The zoo is now slap bang in the middle of the city center and the airport has been moved from the north side of the city to the south side.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0920/breaking20.html
It's Apple's store... I don't think they can be legally required to carry any product they don't want to.
Among smartphone platforms that don't have billion dollar patent infringement precedents against them, the major players are iPhone, BlackBerry, and Windows Phone 7/8, and iPhone has the lion's share of installed base. So should Apple follow through on the late Steve Jobs' threat to go thermonuclear on Android in the U.S. courts, Apple will find iPhone in a position of market power. And once a firm has market power, certain activities that were formerly lawful become deemed as "restraint of trade", arguably including rejecting an application from the only channel through which end users can obtain an application. Remember in the 1990s when Microsoft used its monopoly on Windows to prohibit PC makers from bundling Netscape? Apple's application lockout power on iOS is far stronger than Microsoft's on Windows ever was.
Why is Apple always the villain around here?
Lack of "Unknown sources", and an App Store with no way to pass on to users the freedoms granted in a copyleft license. That's why.
change to Android phone
Not if their manufacture, import, and sale is banned for 20 years.
How many Windows applications require the latest service pack?
Plenty will work on the latest service pack of Windows XP or the latest service pack of Windows Vista. Which major applications are you thinking of that require the paid upgrade to Windows 7?
brilliant, revolutionary versions of the OS (ie, service packs) that make our machines massively slower
I agree with you with respect to the transition from Windows XP to Windows Vista. But what machine did the upgrade from Windows Vista to Windows 7 "make [...] massively slower"?
The position of market power that you describe is only an issue if Apple succeeds in getting rid of Android... it has no bearing on whether or not Apple is going to allow Google to have their own map app on iOS.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
The position of market power that you describe is only an issue if Apple succeeds in getting rid of Android
When determining the scope of the relevant market in an antitrust case, is a judge supposed to consider the black market? Because if Apple keeps getting rid of Android in cases like Apple v. Samsung, Android will become a black market in Apple's, Google's, and Slashdot's home country.
Actually, given that the Google data is produced by the transit agency and submitted to Google,
It's produced by the transit agency in Google's format, where Google can download it on whatever schedule they wish.
Since it is transcoded from whatever real data stores the metro service has, there is always the possibility that an update will be missed, or something will go wrong in transcoding, and also the question of how often those files are generated.
When using Google to get buses in Amsterdam Googles idea of when a bus or tram might be there was always off from reality - even though every one of those buses and trams is GPS equipped. A metro app has the possibility to be real-time as to position of transit, the Google system is always going to have a lag because of having to process the feeds indirectly.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You are a class A jackass. Just thought you'd like to know.
Thanks. Would you like to discuss the points I made in the post?
Why do you keep bringing Android into this? I was talking specifically about a Google Maps app on iOS... what is there, right now, that could possibly prohibit Apple from rejecting such an application? Yeah... if or when Apple has the "market dominance" that you are talking about it'd be an issue... but they don't right now, and they aren't likely to anytime particularly soon (at least on the time scale of how long it takes to develop most mobile applications), so it's really a moot point with regards to the question I was asking about Apple rejecting a Google Maps app.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Planning
Development
Testing
Marketing Shipping Carrier cooperation
Once you get to that 3rd phase you're stuck with the version you used in phase 1 and 2.
The screen is using the same production idea as the rMBP. That's innovation.
So if they take something that did "just work" and replaced it with something else which doesn't, that is certainly a fail.
Sometimes you have to take a step backward in one area so that you can move forward. Like killing off floppy drives when people still seemed to be using them.
As I said in another post, it's a loss for now. But over time the result will be much better for Apple users, because they will have a bunch of more functional and tailored metro apps. And it's a win already for app developers who can now do turn-by-turn on top of Apple maps, something Google disallowed.
And if someone finds they are missing data, maps.google.com works just fine in mobile Safari...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Even if [a successful injunction against the Android platform in general] actually happens, there are plenty of fruit free alternatives.
What smartphone platforms used in the United States are "fruit free" (by which I guess you mean not Apple or BlackBerry)? Windows Phone doesn't sound like "plenty" to me, and like Apple, Microsoft charges per year to run code you wrote on a device you own.
You assume that because you know what the update entails, everyone else does too. This is plainly not true, and a lot of users will update because they trust Apple. This is the first time an iOS update has ever removed functionality. A lot of users are going to realize this only after the fact and be pissed, and rightfully so.
This misses the point completely. Most users will upgrade willingly and blindly, and only find put after the fact that they forever lost their treasured functionality, and cannot go back. Once Apple stops signing iOS5.x, there is no going back. It's not about force, it's abuse of trust.
So if the play store and maps are not part of android, then when comparing ios and android, those two things should be left out of the comparison. That was my point. On one hand people want to include things that give them an advantage in their arguments, but when things are a disadvantage they want to move their goal posts and say that that is not part of their position.
you're missing the point. People who buy into apple (not myself either), are screwed - you immediately get reduced functionality if you try to refuse updates. so the choice is: Reduced functionality or reduced functionality.
Even MS doesn't do that type of shit.
Even MS doesn't do that type of shit.
Actually they kinda do. In Office 2008 for Mac, they removed the ability to connect natively to Exchange 2003 with an update..
which is totally what she said
I wouldn't call a map app with less features, less accuracy and more outright errors "innovation" either.
As always with Apple, their customers are just regarded as collateral damage as they attempt to grab more market share and harm competitors. No different to most corporations, but people seem to think they're a "cool company" or something to be desired. They're not - they just push products, like any other company. Their products are not really innovative or even original. Aside from the shiny cases, there's really nothing special about Apple. They have plenty of "special" customers though - e.g. the imbeciles who queued overnight to get into a shop...
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19536269
"We decided to start a project called Ground Truth, and this was really to build our own maps from scratch. We would start with licensed data and we would find whatever we could where we could get full rights to the data and improve it from there." ...
"The firm sent cars fitted with special nine-lens cameras along roads recording panoramic photos as they went.
But Google's computers also analyse the images to identify street signs, speed limits, addresses, business names, rights of way at road junctions and other information. Human operators then check over each area to correct mistakes before the data is incorporated into the maps."
If you are comparing the two platforms, iOS and Android, you should compare everything available on those two platforms. Everything. Making silly distinctions about where the OS ends makes no difference to what can be done with the devices.
You have chosen the wrong sub-thread to argue your point though. All of my previous comments where solely about the availability of source code. I don't care what phones people use.
Now, whether the play store and maps apps are part of Android is an important distinction if you are trying to determine if Android is open source or not.
I would.
What is the latest version of Android? If it's not Jellybean, I'm curious as to what it is. Nothing is running on it, there's no hint that it's in use anywhere. No manufacturers are using it. The only place it exists is undoubtedly on test devices while Google works on the code.
How is the code useless for hobbyists? I'm a hobbyist, I find the code extremely useful. It would appear that the rest of the Android development community does as well, given the ROMs that are being compiled from that source tree and released to a shitload of phones.
The core Google applications are not part of Android, because Android functions perfectly without them. Saying that the lack of Google Play integration means that Android is not FOSS is like saying that because Linux is not FOSS because nvidia and AMD have closed source binaries for their drivers, or that Steam source is not available. The platform is open, the Google integrated implementation is not. The highly marketed experience is Android with Google, you get Android with Google support. The same as buying Red Hat gets you Linux with Red Hat support.
Where are you getting that OEMs pay for access? The only thing that I can see that's remotely close to this is the Nexus program, but that's Google putting out a phone. Not the OEM, and based on past releases, it doesn't even really seem to have that beneficial of an impact on the rest of the OEM's lineup. Most Samsung phones didn't get updated to GB when the Nexus S came out, most of their current lineup is no further ahead than any other manufacturer in terms of ICS rollout. Ignoring the two Samsung Nexus devices, their Jellybean support is no more advanced than any other OEM, including Motorola's lineup, which is owned by Google.
As a hobbyist, and someone that uses community based Android ROMs on my phone, I'm not really sure how you can say it's useless that the source is there. The fact that the source is there means that people are able to run the latest version of Android on phones that the manufacturer or carrier hasn't updated because the community has access to the source. Is it Google's fault that the manufacturer won't release drivers? No more than it's Linux's fault that hardware manufacturers release BLOBS instead of source for their drivers; more to the point, it doesn't mean the platform is not open source.
You're essentially saying that all Open Source is useless because not everything is open source, which is a ridiculous viewpoint.
Also, XBox live Silver is Xbox live, so yeah, there is a free version. Not as full featured as the paid for version, but it's still free, and still gives the basics. The fact that you can pay more to get more doesn't mean that there isn't a way to get it for free. To use a car analogy, you're saying that there are no cheap cars, because there are luxury ones. The fact that I could buy a Porsche doesn't mean I can't buy a Kia, or take the bus instead.
Keep on knockin'
https://robbiecrash.me
Haha, wow!
The latest version of Android is unknown and unseen to anyone who isn't Google or an OEM who forks over cash, agrees to install Google services and applications, etc. I've already told you this.
The code that is open is useless for hobbyists because the hardware is closed. You can either develop something that half works, something that works well on ancient hardware, or something that works but needs closed source code to be useful (either firmware for the radio, chunks of a major OEM's ROM, or Google's services and applications). I've already told you this.
So now you want to differentiate between Android and Android with Google? Well, you're 100% wrong there. Android is closed source. AOSP is open source. You know how shitty and locked down the Kindles are? They use AOSP (and their own closed source code along with it), not Android. Android absolutely owes its success, usefulness, and market share due to Google's services and applications. If you don't care about that then I dare you to primarily use a device that doesn't have them and then claim "AOSP is just as good as Android!".
Where am I getting that OEMs pay for access? Are you kidding, kid? Google it! This isn't new. OEMs enter into things called contracts and are granted access to the latest code 3-6 months before it becomes part of AOSP. The contracts involve things like agreements for transfer of funds, joint marketing, non disclosure, and integration of Google's services and applications.
As a hobbyist and someone that uses community based Android ROMs on your phone, I can guarantee you you either do absolutely nothing with your phone or you've installed the closed source Google services and applications and bits of OEM ROMs that have been poked and picked at. Not only is this technical illegal in the vast majority of the western world, it's absolutely not open source.
You sound like you're 15 years old and a real pro at visiting the xda forums and downloading ROMs. Good job!
Maybe when you grow up you'll realize that the impact of open source has little to do with how you can install a half-working ROM of the latest version of AOSP.
If Android was open source you'd be able to influence the direction of the project, submit code to the project manager (Google), and have access to the latest version. You can do none of these things. You can with AOSP but AOSP is not Android. Android is moving platform. As an OEM, if you're not on the latest version you're fucked out of the market. As a "hobbyist" who downloads a ROM off of a website and shoe horns it onto your phone, you may not give a shit but the real impact of Android has precisely nothing to do with how you can whittle away at AOSP.
Ok, sorry for the delay here forgot about this thread. You're completely correct in your pedantry; Android (tm) is not the same as AOSP. But the marketing campaign does a pretty good job of making that clear, so most of your points are invalid. I had a big post addressing the rest of your childlike vitriol, but I'm going to give up because you're being a pedant to the point of ridiculousness and asserting that you have said something as a proof to your argument. I have no interest in arguing with you further, aside from one thing:
[quote]You sound like you're 15 years old and a real pro at visiting the xda forums and downloading ROMs. Good job!
Maybe when you grow up you'll realize that the impact of open source has little to do with how you can install a half-working ROM of the latest version of AOSP.[/quote]
The cute attack aside, the impact of open source is precisely that I can download the latest version of AOSP and install it on whatever hardware I can make it work on. That's the end of the impact, in fact. Access to the source code lets me do what I want with it, rather than doing what others tell me I can. Access to the source means I can bend it to my will, there's nothing else.
All the lovey dovey, information should be free, all source is open, movement shit boils down to the fact that I can edit your code to make it do what I want, instead of what you want.
Keep on knockin'
https://robbiecrash.me