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North Korea Declares a State of War
paysonwelch writes "North Korea has declared a state of war against South Korea, stating that neither peace nor war has ended. Quoting the news release via Reuters: '1. From this moment, the north-south relations will be put at the state of war and all the issues arousing between the north and the south will be dealt with according to the wartime regulations.' The DPRK goes on to say that this will be a 'blitz' war and that they will regain control of the south, and destroy U.S. bases in the process."
Great line from the declaration: "[The U.S.] should clearly know that in the era of Marshal Kim Jong Un, the greatest-ever commander, all things are different from what they used to be in the past." A senior U.S. official called this statement "pot-banging and chest-thumping." The official said, "North Korea is in a mindset of war, but North Korea is not going to war."
This won't end well. It was always tricky to deal with NK before because we didn't know about China. But now Chins is our source of cheap crap and we are their source for economic growth.
If the Us bases are attacked and we get involved it's going to get very ugly, very fast.
I for one welcome our glorious new Democratic overlords.
The Korean "war" never ended. It has been ongoing since 1950
IIRC, North Korea has declared war on the South multiple times since the armistice. In short, it's nothing new.
NK has had particularly bad farm yields and has trouble feeding it's army - recently China returned 12 NK soldiers that tried to escape. In years past, this wouldn't have happened as NK was keen to always make sure the Army got food but rations were cut last year. It needs an increase in foreign aid to hold itself up. That's what all this sword rattling is about. I hope that everyone lets them drop.
You know you're seriously off the rails when you start provoking the planet's grand champions at killing people and breaking things and Russia and China are telling you to calm down.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
democratic-republician overlords
But China won't help you out this time.
I really think there is a chance that NK leadership has gone so bonkers they would actually try something like bombing SK. I doubt it would be effective unless they bring a nuke to the fight, but we're still talking about one of China's maybe-buddies. The USSR was scary, but they weren't so honking insane as these guys.
Hopefully, NK will just keep doing the "chest thumping" thing until they get tired. Or it's all just a bluff in the first place. I, personally, have had enough wars/actions/what-have-you for now. Too much death. Everyone (including the US) just chill and have a cup o' tea and a biscuit.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Suddenly, Zergling rush!
My first program:
Hell Segmentation fault
North Korea is trying to blackmail the west once again. It worked in the 90's with Clinton and it worked in the 2000's with Bush, they make a big fuss and they get money to calm down. And the US media loves it too, they get to scare people and talk endlessly about it during a slow news cycle. Ratings up, win-win.
~~~Please pass the salt, I hate unsalted MD5s
Can someone explain to me what it is that gives such a small country that has comparably weak military (they are ranked number 28 in the world according to http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp) and pretty much zero chance of surviving a week in a real war the balls to be so dickish and war-hungry?
Are they really THAT brainwashed and misinformed (or uninformed) as to believe that they can just threaten nuclear war every time they don't get their way? It's like a little kid threatening to run away every time he has to eat his broccoli.
The only scary thing here is that sometimes, very rarely, the little kid DOES run away for an hour or so. Well, I hope for the sake of any innocent people in North Korea that this little boy doesn't run away, and instead learns to shut the fuck up and eat his broccoli.
Halitosis - (n.) Halle Berry's Camel Toe.
wars are not declared with photos of the president and a map behind him showing "squadrons of airplanes" attacking the US .. from N.Korea ( http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2013/03/2013328222926559483.html )
this is just a trick to pressure the west into giving hem MOARRR aid. none is stupid enough to destroy his own chain of power. There's only one case he must be "that stupid" : he's already agreed with the west ( recruited during the switzerland studies years ) to provoke an event from which the regime will collapse.
P.S. WILL THE FUCK SOMEONE DO ANYTHING WITH THIS MORONIC 10 PAGES LONG AUTOMATED POSTS BY BOTS? CAN'T JUST A MOD DELETE THEM ?
The Kaesong Industrial complex, a North/South industrial park, is apparently still open for business which means economic relations are undisturbed. Most news sources are highlighting this as a sign that the North isn't serious about the threats. If I were NK, though, I'd keep that puppy open as long as possible considering the new sanctions.
There has to be a growing group of North Koreans who are rolling there eyes every time this Tard opens his mouth nowadays... Tell me they're not going to put up with Lil Kim much longer. This is right out of Machiavelli's playbook. Lil Prince needs to keep his citizens occupied with a foreign 'conflict' to keep their collective attention away from strife at home.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
Since i live in South Korea, I base my concern level on the people around me, rather than western media.
Today all the girls were out in their 6 inch skirts, 10 inch heels, and all the guys were out following them around.
Seems to be just another day.
its about time we had a real good assthumping war
witha buncha people getting killed---its sick i know but it would maybe bring us out of this recession
are whole economy revolves around the military---use it or lose it
and besides THEY started it
Good luck with that. Their "US mainland strike plan" map shows straight lines rather than great circle routes. Either they are clueless, it's purely for show, or their missiles are going to fall a few thousand km short. Or some combination.
It seems to me that the North Korean leadership has just spent all of its rhetorical ammo. If the next thing out of Kim's mouth isn't a launch code and an authorization to launch a nuclear tipped missile he's just ruined his credibility. And North Korea does not even have a nuclear tipped missile.
This is very dangerous, because this means that at some time before the next time Kim wants to blackmail South Korea and the US he is going to have to use enough force that his threats will regain credibility. I don't think there will be a major war, but I think a minor exchange of fire, at least, is inevitable at some point in the not too distant future if Kim wants to stay in power.
I wonder what his generals and other top officials in Pyongyang are whispering to one another when he can't hear. I guess the time to stage a coup without looking like total traitors would be a couple of months after this blows over.
My personal theory is that they don't really have a nuke but a lot of people think they do and NK knows that so they're taking advantage of the situation to try to get something.
Apparently April fools came early this year.
Congratulation on coming over as more moronic as the real mods here. Which, by the way, are heartily invited to die in a fire due to utter incompetence.
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
It's Schrodinger's war: neither peace nor war has ended
They're just threatening to open the box and have a look.
I know N. Korea has been in contact with Iran; is it possible Iran is paying N. Korea to act as a distraction, and help prevent the US from moving more assets into the Middle East?
What about the innocent civilians in NK?
And not too sure which direction to turn the little handle.
There is a chance (small) that this idiot and his crew will provoke a major incident - like The Mouse That Roared...but with real blood and bodies.
What makes N. Korea think that they will determine when they go to war? There are several bears in the woods and who knows which bear will wake up grumpy? Matter of fact if anyone wants to I strongly suspect that it would be rather easy to eliminate N. Korea before they even knew they were at war. I suppose that one way to get out of a place like N. Korea is in the form of a vapor, well stirred, and well roasted, floating high in the jet stream.
I can see prices of Android tablets skyrocketing.
Apple must be behind all this.
China might get a bit miffed when the radioactive fallout drifts into their bread-basket region.
Little Kim Jong Un found his toy soldier collection and wants to play war.
If this were actually serious, they'd be bombed into the stone-age before they managed to actually do anything.
Oh, wait...
I wonder what would happen if the US used a stealth bomber to drop a 500 lb. bag of candy on Kim's house, just to make the point that we can drop anything on him at any time. Just a reminder that he lives precisely as long as Obama chooses to allow. Maybe follow it up with dropping a few thousand teddy bears on major population centers.
This is not how you conduct a blitz.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
With all their current pollution, i doubt china would even notice.
http://interserver.net/
What country creates people like you, who still think a nuclear war is a good idea? They have a serious problem with their education system.
Now's a good time to rewatch Threads, and lament the possibility that these asshats might have nukes, and might somehow be insane enough to use them.
To you and the neanderthals who voted this up, GFY.
no one is truly innocent.
Yeah, lets kill all those men, women, children and babies. Who needs brain washing when people with access to education and a free press make these kind of statements...
In 1918 the Treaty of Versailles stated - not for the first time - that there is no such thing as an innocent civilian of a warlike state - they can be divided into those who acted to prevent, and those who complied. We are probably all citizens (or subjects in the case of monarchies) of post-revolutionary states. We should understand that a limited proportion of the blame for the actions of tyrants must fall upon those who did not act to stop them
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
So... during all this falderall, we get to see a lot of photos of Young Dear Leader surrounded by elderly men in military uniforms with ridiculously large hats, pointing dramatically this way and that. Occasionally you get a side view of Dear Leader and... all I can think of is MAN he's fat. Looks like close to 300 pounds. They try to disguise it with clothes and camera angles but there's no denying that he is a Big Boy. Maybe we should just send truckloads of Cinnabuns and wait for the inevitable?
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
If this gets out of hand, they will step in and slap them down. China cant afford trouble either. They have opened their countries economics to the rest of the world far to much to risk it.
You forgot one additional point: the North Korean government, while terrible, does keep order within its borders. If North Korea were to completely collapse, there would be a heavily armed, nuclear-capable, failed state with 20+ million starving people on the Korean Peninsula. Neither China, Russia, S. Korea, Japan, the U.S. or the world economy in general wants to be forced to deal with that outcome. Even without nukes or armed conflict, it would be a humanitarian disaster of historic proportions.
In effect, it's their last resort for blackmail: help us, or we'll burn our house down and make you clean up the mess.
Perhaps the North Korean Ender Wiggins has graduated from battle school and is now ready...
Actually there isn't a big enough yawn to encompass the boredom I have with N. Korea's threats in the news. Wake me up when they decide to commit national suicide by actually doing something.
How we set aside our morals and learned to love the bomb
Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
You know perfectly well why communist (or other) dictatorships go to war. They're close to losing control over their own country, either because the population is rising up (unlikely here) or because they're out of resources because they've built a state system filled with people used to divert state resources to personal ends (very likely the case here).
This won't end well, as it will force China and the US into a confrontation when the cleanup happens.
they'd quietly kill of the movers and shakers in upper government and put in puppets, spent a few billion have a nice big colony next door. otherwise there is, after the smoke settles, real probability of U.S friendly ally right on their border
http://i.imgur.com/DnDVszZ.gif
Silence is a state of mime.
They're close to losing control over their own country, either because the population is rising up (unlikely here) or because they're out of resources because they've built a state system filled with people used to divert state resources to personal ends (very likely the case here).
This won't end well, as it will force China and the US into a confrontation when the cleanup happens.
I'm lost... Why are you calling the U.S. a communist dictatorship?
Upward mobility is a slippery slope - the higher you climb the more you show your ass.
Because the treaty of Versailles was a great achievement that brought an end to war in Europe forever and was universally seen as fair and just. /s
Sounds like you are describing the inverted dictatorship in EU, next year. And the US in the next 5.
They have a dictatorship of a Family. You have one of a Bank.
Big whooping difference.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
You need help.
Wow, better think twice about who we're voting for then.
Meh...
North Korea began to piss of China almost just as much as it does with USA and South Korea.
Remember...China gets something out of South Korea with trade...North require aid and is constantly creates drama that threatens to destabilize the region.
I think I remember some officers being charged with trying to overtrhow the new kim-jung Un.... If it wasnt just paranoid purges....I'd bet the Chinese were behind it.
My -1 Troll is actually a +1 funny. And my -1 flame is actually a +1 insightfull.
OMG! Everybody! Run!
The great leader is an Apple Fanboy http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02522/north-korea-jong-m_2522857c.jpg
That should end this stupid war: move some of Apple production lines to the NK/SK frontier and let Kim brag about being the first to get an iWatch.
Funny, it could be him doing all those photoshops.
Imagine the US is winding down it's two cash cow wars; almost done with Iraq, and Afghanistan's end is in sight, if not in fact.
Imagine the USMIC without a constant flow of cash.
We'll be needing -- and having -- a new war. Just watch. NK could be very convenient for the USA. And if not NK, then someone else. But NK has all the characteristics we want: A smallish country, an easily defeated military, a huge population to keep us there fighting in the bushes for 5-10 years, no particular economic value to be concerned about, has been described as part of the mythical "axis of evil"...
Yep, I'm pretty sure I smell another uptick in USMIC stocks.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
NK has value of a buffer. Neither South Korea nor NATO who's bases it houses are friendly towards China. North Korea is near Chinese heartland.
This is the same issue as "holy shit, USSR has tactical nukes in Cuba" for USA. Only imagine if Cuba had land access to US mainland. And USSR put their best tanks and tactical bombers in there as well.
There will be a cold day in hell before China lets North Korea fall to the West.
So they have made these same threats many times before and that negates ANY threat?
Is it not a bit more concerning this time given that they NOW have a missile capable of hitting mainland US with a nuclear war head?
AND
What happened to the DEFCON system?
Should it not be changed given you have the above situation?
‘He who exercises no forethought but makes light of his opponents is sure to be captured by them.’
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Kim Jong Un.............this is your brain on drugs.
I'm old, not dead. Well that's my 2 cents worth, your mileage may vary. I say what I think, not what you want to hear.
By Adolf Hitler (who was a pretty bad commander, fortunately) and countless others. The sad thing is that apparently quite a few idiots in N Korea believe such things.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Kim Jong Un,
/.
You should focus on the war, and not post spam on
Because the treaty of Versailles was a great achievement that brought an end to war in Europe forever and was universally seen as fair and just. /s
One Allied general famously heard the terms and said, "That's not a peace treaty, that's a formula for a 20-year ceasefire."
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
What country creates people like you, who still think a nuclear war is a good idea? They have a serious problem with their education system.
USA and NK?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
A senior U.S. official called this statement "pot-banging and chest-thumping." The official said, "North Korea is in a mindset of war, but North Korea is not going to war."
This is going to be Marshall Kim's trump card. His troops can just walk into Seoul, while the US won't do a thing, b'cos they obviously don't believe that he's really going to war, regardless of all the missile tests that they've been launching.
North Korea is occupied territory. China should start building settlements in the region. Let's see if they get the same treatment as our 'friends' in the middle east.
One of the biggest mistakes made in World War 2, was by the French, attempting to re-fight World War 1. They had a very well fortified, impenetrable line of fortresses and pill boxes, all made stronger by an underground set of tunnels with railways for resupply, hardened by concrete, steel and stone. The Germans marched around it and attacked through neutral Belgium. The wall was useless. In 1950-1953, North Korea attacked South Korea. They did well till the Americans intervened, and then got pushed back to nearly the Yalu river before China intervened on the side of the North, and the South then had to withdraw to the present 53rd parallel. I don't know why they just don't put up a very large, permanent wall between the North and South, and call it done, but I think the North is still trying to win. They have been on a war footing for 60 years. Its enabled the Kim family (Kim Il-sung, Kim Jong-il -son- and Kim Jong-un -grandson-) to establish a lineage military dictatorship. Its amazing to me how they can waste so many resources threatening and preparing, its as if all of North Korea is in a paranoid mental state, indoctrinated by a leadership bent on keeping them unaware and starving.
Send Kim Jong Un a couple dozen pairs of real American Levi's, a a few cases of Hershey bars, a few cases of Coca Cola (the real sugar stuff in glass bottles, not the HFCS stuff), a lifetime subscription to Playboy magazine (translated into Korean of course), and some new games for his Xbox or PS3. He'll shut the hell up and we won't have to deal with North Korea for at least a few years.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
It's more likely to drift over Alaska than China if the jet stream direction is any indicator.
I'm lost... Why are you calling the U.S. a communist dictatorship?
He works as the CEO of a large financial institution. After the Bush/Obama bailout it felt like he was a member of the Politburo.
=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
The frequency and specificity of these 'apk' posts makes me think it is a 'beta' test of a next-level automatic comment bot.
It looks like it *may* be trying to 'optimize' the functions that automate actions like 'linking to other discussions' and 'responding by name to a critic in same thread'
These are things that usually give bots away easily.
The sheer volume of these 'apk' posts mean it has to be automated at some level.
Thank you Dave Raggett
If you wanted to start a war, you don't go around announcing this stuff. You secretly attack. By now though, the whole world knows that they are really just bluffing and don't mean any harm. Plus, they know they have screwed up bad when their closest ally, China, has told them to calm down.
Great Strategy, Kim Jong Un!
It seems to me that at this point, the South Koreans should be putting a number of "Asylum Centers" near the DMZ, where North Korean soldiers (and others, though soldiers would be the primary target audience) can turn in their weapons and cross into South Korea. Arm the centers heavily enough that they could provide cover fire for someone running from the North Korean border being shot at by his ex-comrades.
You could probably bleed off a significant portion of the North Korean military this way, with very little in the way of actual casualties for either side. Then again, I suspect that the majority of North Korean deaths in such a conflict wouldn't be in combat anyway, but from mass suicides when their Dear Marshal is brought down.
I believe next is a state of bombed followed by a state of crater. I think they've begun to believe their own lies about superior military and weaponry and all that crap. This would be the most one-sided war ever, assuming China doesn't jump to their side, which they absolutely will not.
I'm calling bullshit. What possible (non-conspiracy theory related) reason could the US have for provoking a war with North Korea? What would we stand to gain? Obama has already been re-elected, the economy isn't doing great but also isn't awful, there's no oil involved, and the US public is already war-weary and has little stomach for another one.
I think the overwhelming majority of Americans just want NK to shut up and stop aggravating the situation...
The USA should join the League of Nations.
Actually, regimes with democratically elected leaders (including U.S. regimes in the 21st Century) going to war because the population is "rising up" against the current leaders (which, in a system where the regime can be replaced by an election, can just mean the current leadership dropping precipitously in the polls) and the leadership knows that war tends to produce a "rally-around-the-flag" effect is not at all unheard of.
Actually there was an attempted military coup in North Korea in November 2012 (Citation: http://intelnews.org/2013/03/15/01-1217/) . Looks like the Party can't trust the military anymore. Hence, we have North Korea declaring war (that they cannot possibly hope to win).
Strange the grandparent attributes the declaration of war to Us actions. The US were simply not letting North Korea get away with the same provocations they did in the past. After 60 years of bad behavior and criminal acts from North Korea the patience of the US and South Korea have finally run out. However Jeremiah Cornelius would like to ignore the kidnappings (of South Koreans and Japanese actresses), assassinations, murders, drug running, weapon proliferation, DMZ shootings and axe attacks, and brutal oppression of the NK people by the NK leadership. Instead Jeremiah continues his bankrupt crusade to demonize the US at every opportunity, by selectively choosing facts. Shame on you JC ! and your ilk.
People's Democratic-Republican Overlords
With the problem being "People's".
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Presumably, you are trying to use a fancy word for "peace treaty" and failing, as an armistice was, in fact, signed by the belligerents on July 27, 1953, which established "complete cessation of all hostilities in Korea by all armed force".
Who's "Provocative Action"?
March 29 2013 - Hagel says U.S. has to take North Korean threats seriously
Umm... how is saying we're going to take a country's statements seriously, provocative?
In your subject is a bad way of establishing a natural flow for your readers. Especially if you start the comment with a capital letter.
And only our political failures will make this an issue. China wants a buffer zone, and not having to deal with all the refugees. If SK agreed to open borders with the north, and the US/UN/SK agreed to not put any weapons in NK, I would expect China to officially ally with the US/UN against NK. The problem is that we want to show as "strong" so we don't negotiate, we dictate. So we'll screw it up, insist we have the right to put a base in NK for "safety of South Korea", and China will not join us, and could end up starting a proxy war to gauge US military capability in the stealth-wars. It's our choice, but the leaders will pick something stupid then blame it all on the Chinese.
Learn to love Alaska
I heard a rumour that once upon a time, wars were started for even more specious reasons like - to liberate an oppressed and downtrodden populace, or EVEN to provide regional geo-political stability.
Imagine that!
Hej! Nasi tu byli!
and annex DPRK, then the U.S. can leave it in Chinese hands for the foreseeable future. Everybody wins.
Buy your next Linux PC at eightvirtues.com
An armistice (such as the Korean War Armistice Agreement) is essentially a cease-fire intended as permanent, usually because it foresees the negotiation of a final peace treaty or settlement during the resulting cessation of hostilities. So you didn't fix anything, just made it less precise.
"Daddy wouldn't let me do a real war, but now that he's gone to the Great Cannon in the Sky, I can now war!"
Table-ized A.I.
The real reason is not actual war - but draining of resources, in sustained and drawn-out game plan.
It is planting season, in N Korea. The army has traditionally been used like a CCC labor force to do this.
Now? They go on alert instead - and famine is ratcheted another notch...
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Never.
Those were the cover-stories, to get parents to donate their children, instead of resist.
You HAVE been brainwashed.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
I can't count the number of times I heard people say "You don't change leaders in the middle of a war." as a reason to vote Bush in for a second term.
Reuniting Korea is estimated to cost trillions. If the US went to war, it couldn't afford to foot the bill (China could easily see to that by pressuring the US with debt owed). With South Korea paying the cost, their economic situation becomes much worse giving China an even better economic situation.
By Vectron!
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
If SK agreed to open borders with the north, and the US/UN/SK agreed to not put any weapons in NK, I would expect China to officially ally with the US/UN against NK.
China would run the risk of a unified Korea, making a potential rival considerably stronger. I think they've already demonstrated over sixty years, that they don't want that happening.
YES!!!! I cannot WAIT for the new M.A.S.H. series.
8 million in reserves too with tons of weapons and a zealotry of liberating their homeland from the emperial agressors with a united Korea will be difficult if not impossible to default without at least 250k of American troops to balance out.
Also the NK airforce can shell Soul at 1,000 rockets an hour an flatten the city right before a 2 million man march into it. South Korea would fall very quickly as 35,000 US troops and 100k South Korean troops would be overwhelmed FAST!
The north may not have high tech fighter jets but they do have large men with soldiers who are brainwashed and eager to fight for nationalist interests.
http://saveie6.com/
Many hardcore lefties who have the tribal, partisan mentality of "My side good, other side bad," will keep blaming Bush for whatever is bad until there is another high enough profile Republican to blame, probably another president.
Same shit you see now from the righties. Obama has suddenly become the new favourite target for everything bad. Clinton was the favourite but now it is Obama. He's the newest, most powerful "other guy" so they dump all the bad shit at his feet.
Unfortunately, many humans are still very tribalistic and you see it in how they relate to politics. Their tribe, whatever they identify that as, are the good guys, the other tribe is the bad guys and thus all the bad things are the other guys fault.
The NK government wants a partial war so that they can get US aid. They want the benefits of losing a war without actually losing. SOunds pretty smart to me.
Come at me, Bro!
This is not your fathers communist China.
I think that china got their priorities changed during the last sixty/fifty years(or at least changed the battleground).
My -1 Troll is actually a +1 funny. And my -1 flame is actually a +1 insightfull.
I think that china got their priorities changed during the last sixty/fifty years(or at least changed the battleground).
So what? They are still standing in the way of a Korean unification and I think they do so precisely because they still want a divided Korea.
As has been pointed out by numerous posters, the headling must have accidentally been truncated.
The original headline was "North Korea Declares a State of War, yet again".
Obviously /. high editorial standards would never allow for a misleading highly sensationalized headline.
The /. editors want to express their sincere regret for this most uncommon mistake.
I have and I get bloody angry at the slightest thing... when I'm undernourished hungry and scared... A normal reaction not only for North Korea but for any living being on this planet... really anywhere in this world. If anyone has been there they would understand a little more... Feed the people there first... then sit down and talk.
What, exactly makes you think that the top generals surrounding Spud Junior aren't already in China's pocket?
message to NK - shit, or get off the pan...
I can just see Kim Jong Un's supporting cast thinking... Lets get this thing over with - green light! Regardless of whether we win or lose it can't be worse than what we've gone through for the past 60 years.
They don't care about a "new competitor." They are more concerned about a Cuban Missile Crisis situation (think of the US deployment in South Korea being on the Korea/China border, with nukes pointed at Beijing). We could be doing that now in SK, but NK gives the feel of a buffer.
Learn to love Alaska
They aren't standing in the way of reunification. They are just not pushing for it. They don't want a "divided Korea" They couldn't care less about Korea, other than wanting a nice military buffer between an aggressive and imperialist US Army and Beijing, which is not far from Korea. I have no doubt that if they were offered a complete disarmament of the Korean peninsula, in exchange for providing defense, as the US does for Japan, China would be willing to invade NK to put an end to their insanity. But the US believes China to be an enemy so much that I don't think anyone with the power to do it would consider it seriously enough to get an answer. After all, why use diplomacy when you can just kill people.
Learn to love Alaska
North Korea, State of War? Fantastic!
Can we shoot him now?
Not only that, but North Korea has nothing we could possibly want.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
The Korean "war" never ended. It has been ongoing since 1950
The Korean War never begun, officially, from the perspective of American law. Only congress is legally empowered under the US Constitution to declare war; it hasn't since about 1941.
If the Korean "war" (sic) never ended as you suggest, then World War I didn't end until 1945. This obviously was not the case.
Also, to call the Korean "War" ongoing is a stretch to put it mildly. Anyone still alive (and capable of speaking coherently at this remote point in time,) who fought in the Korean War can tell you when the war was on-going, it was a bit more than the occasional cross-border shooting, or rare bombing of some scarcely-inhabited island, an event that we see every few years. During the so-called war, that sort of thing was a near-daily occurrence. It's been tense and hostile, but by-and-large quiet since the armistice.
This is just more saber rattling, until troops actually try to cross the border. I almost hope they do, it is past-time we settled their collective rotten-cabbage-based hash. Although, I suspect WalMart might end up carrying a lot fewer things labeled "Made in China" in the long-run in any case. I would love for the Koreas reunited under Seoul, not Pyongyang, or Beijing, also a possibility depending on how things go!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket
"War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small 'inside' group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes."
There are other reasons people make wars (including pride and political power) but the reasons the infrastructure is there to excess is profit-driven. Nothing like preparing for war or resupplying during or afterwards to boost the profits of certain companies. And then there are, sometimes, the profits to be made during the occupation and "reconstruction" phases.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War
Estimates there range from about $1 trillion to $6 trillion. A company that can siphon off even just 0.1% of that has made at least a billion dollars. There are billions of dollars to be made destroying parts of North Korea and then pretending to fix them up again. And if the US can get into a huge cold war or lots of proxy wars with China, many companies could make stupendous profits for years.
See also:
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1220-28.htm
"There were Seymour Melman's op-eds and letters to the editor in the New York Times starting in his twenties. There were his cogent Congressional testimonies about the permanent war economy and its damage to our civilian economy and necessities of the American people. His economic conversion plans and his advocacy for a muscular peace agreement with the Soviet Union illuminated what kind of economy, innovation and prosperity could be ours in the U.S.A.
Melman's work was detailed and he challenged what President Eisenhower called the "military-industrial complex" like that of no other academic. He would show how talented scientific and engineering skills were sucked into this permanent war economy to the detriment of civilian jobs and economic development as if people's well-being mattered. "To eliminate hunger in America = $4-5 billion = C-5A aircraft program," he would say, referring to Lockheed Martin's chronically bungled, defective and costly contract."
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
Maybe they have finally learned the real English (it doesn't seem to be willing to change). It seems that in the real English dictionary the definition of peace is: period of cheating between two periods of war. It reminds me to another off-topic article I saw in Slashdot many years ago on a September 11. It was about two towers. Maybe in that real English dictionary tower=country... Besides, not much of an article for me, as I am in a similar situation, because a few months ago I was given, in person, a war declaration that still has not been cancelled. Not even remotely, which means that it can be "cashed" at any moment, especially with the crisis and all the grease created on purpose (sorry about my English).
I have no doubt that if they were offered a complete disarmament of the Korean peninsula, in exchange for providing defense, as the US does for Japan, China would be willing to invade NK to put an end to their insanity. But the US believes China to be an enemy so much that I don't think anyone with the power to do it would consider it seriously enough to get an answer.
I would have to side with the US government viewpoint here. It would be a hideous injustice to throw South Korea to the wolves. Let us keep in mind who supported North Korea for all these decades and how that turned out.
It may end up, with weakening US power that China ends up dominating the Korea peninsula anyway. But even in that case, I don't see them supporting unification. Presently, they have weak, militarily insignificant neighbors. A unified Korea could become a problem down the road, say a seed for anti-Chinese dissatisfaction among China's neighbors.
A standard empire building tactic is divide and conquer. I don't think it's wise to hope that they don't develop a habit for empire.
The U.S. Marine Corps could easily perform an amphibious invasion onto China from several existing bases in that region, and with the assistance of several nuclear submarines could even start that action largely undetected with quite a few people already on the ground preparing such an invasion at any time before the Chinese military could react.
Seriously, the notion of a buffer zone is a silly and outdated notion, and North Korea is increasingly slipping into the backwater of insignificance on the global stage. The kind of bluster that they are making right now even shows how insignificant they have become.
Tuvalu and Niue are just as much of a buffer against "American imperial aggression" as North Korea and cost China a whole lot less in terms of foreign aid. Even the North Korean form of Communism is laughable in China. About the only thing that keeps China from completely pulling the plug is that North Korea represents a way to continue to tweak the nose of America from time to time for laughs and giggles, thus plays well for domestic (to China) public relations efforts.
America can easily afford to go to war against China.... and certainly could take care of North Korea without a second thought.
You are correct though about how much it would cost to bring North Korea into the 21st Century though.... which might be a good thing for China as well. South Korea would be so self-absorbed by trying to "fix" North Korea that they wouldn't even remotely be concerned about anything else for well over a century and might even be friendlier to China in the long run.
Does it bother you?
I can't count the number of times I heard people say "You don't change leaders in the middle of a war." as a reason to vote Bush in for a second term.
You really believe that was the reason Bush was re-elected for his 2nd term? There might have been some old farts and a few fringe people saying stuff like that, but it wasn't even a major campaign discussion point.... other than simply showing "his record" in how he was "acting presidential" during his first term.
I certainly doubt if you asked many of those who actually cast a vote for Bush on his 2nd term that their response for why they did that was to "keep from changing leaders during a war".
Hell, most Americans hardly even noticed or even still notice that America is even at war with anybody or that its soldiers are in harms way... except for perhaps the few that have close friends serving in Afghanistan or Iraq. Even then it seems very distant and completely unrelated at all to current events or even dealing with ordinary life in America. It sure isn't like the huge domestic sacrifices that were made during World War I and World War II.
I would have to side with the US government viewpoint here. It would be a hideous injustice to throw South Korea to the wolves. Let us keep in mind who supported North Korea for all these decades and how that turned out.
Please explain how anything in my suggestion was throwing them to the wolves. I think your emotion is getting the better of you, you are so anti-china biased you aren't even listening to anything.
Learn to love Alaska
China has been cutting support as the US cut support, and has supported the US lead sanctions. China liked the idea of a communist neighbor, but NK isn't communist. A single dictator owning everything who heads the government is technically communism (the government owns everything), but isn't communism is spirit, where the people own everything. Fascism and communism are almost the same thing, the difference is only in the route there.
That and China is not communist anymore. It's capitalist (globally) and communist (locally) and that distinction wasn't defined previously because, aside from oil, communist countries have never been strong exporters.
Learn to love Alaska
Agree. And stop calling me Shirley.
And get thrown back into the sea within days because of lack of resupply and ground support. There is a reason why every before single invasion US has performed so far, ground based supply lines were painstakingly negotiated. And that was against countries that didn't actually have a capability to completely cut off any beachhead from resupply. Chinese have such capability in droves, all it takes is a one small fast low profile missile/torpedo interceptor boat to sink several supply ships. And China has those in thousands.
And regardless, as was shown with cold war, you need a beheading strike capability before engaging a nation with strategic nuclear weapons. That means as many functional access paths to nations capital and military bases. You're not going to be capturing those from marine beachheads - their artillery alone will ensure that no beach head can be established in reasonable range.
Why not end this once and for all? Go here and vote: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/negotiate-and-ensure-peace-korean-peninsula/4vjNhTBb
A U.S. invasion of China would likely happen through Russia anyway, both because you would need another major power as a substantial ally and also because that would give you the necessary ground support you are talking about.
Besides, what is there in China that America wants? It doesn't need workers as Mexico already provides that (in terms of low-skilled workers to fill in at the bottom of the economic ladder) and America has plenty of land available to do whatever it wants. More to the point, there isn't any reason for America to really go into China.
North Korea isn't needed as a buffer, which is the point I was making. That may have been useful when Chairman Mao was still running China and the Cold War was still going on, but circumstances and technology have made that sort of a moot issue.
Assuming that America was foolish enough to mount a ground invasion of China, it would also not hesitate to involve nuclear weapons as well and risk the consequences of such an act. As such, everything you might think about in terms of such invasions would have larger consequences and would be very different from other kinds of military engagements that have happened in the past. There have been all sorts of theories about how nuclear weapons might be used in a combined arms situation where nuclear weapons are one of the aspects of that action, but so far nobody has actually put such weapons into practice with the exception of the end of World War II. Even then, the nuclear weapons were merely alternatives to things like the carpet bombing and fire bombs, where the incendiary raid on Tokyo (much less Dresden) was far more destructive than the nukes were. Modern nuclear weapons simply haven't been used and experience in the Cold War means nothing as they were never used except for political purposes. They certainly have never been used by a general who might take advantage of those weapons.... or fail miserably like the artillery barrages that happened in World War I.
They're REALLY hungry this year... the posturing is more blustering than usual...
Would Clinton send them some bags of UN Rice so that fat fucker will shut the hell up?
It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
To this, I say, why not? APK has a long standing history of inciting ridiculous wars to prove to everyone what a better person they are. They also have a horrendous posting style that smacks of arrogance and self righteousness.
APK is getting exactly what they deserve. And it's hilarious.
Posting anon as I moderated in this topic earlier.
"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
Seriously, I hope NK continues along this moronic path and actually fires a missile at SK or the US. Then the door is open and NK should be hit with the biggest broadside in history. If NK used a nuke the response should be in kind and the targets should be both military and civilian. Taking out core infrastructure and then go for food and water, eliminating any ability to even marginally feed the people. Then go biological (anthrax for instance) and decimate the population even more. Top it off by supporting an invasion from SK aiming directly at toppling the government and joining the two Koreas under SK rule.
Then we've finally rid the world of the last remaining communist country.
And then we can turn our attention towards Cuba and Venezuela and start getting rid of the socialist plague there.
If I could mod this +1 Insightful, I would. I hadn't thought of it like that, but I guess that's possible. Not saying I believe that's what's happening, but it's possible.
You're thinking in terms of current strategic situation. Country-toppling is long term strategic issue. China is clearly headed for a strategic alliance with Russia (as shown with state visits of new government) and on a direct collision course with NATO in some decade or two. At this point, small scale territorial conflicts between giants will become feasible, in the style of Sino-Soviet conflict. NATO will likely do what it always did, use a proxy through which war will be fought. South Korea makes for one of the best candidates here, and as a result, importance of North Korea keeping it in check and buffering it from mainland China is of paramount long term strategic importance.
The fact that NK also functions as an exceptional drain on NATO forces in the region on constant basis is a short term strategic cherry on top of the long term pie.
The cost of going to war against China would be the loss of most of the Asian continent and North American continent to nuclear, biological and chemical WMDs. I'm quite certain that US cannot afford such a cost.
Even without this option, China is the most populous nation on the planet. And while its military isn't all that modern (yet), it's using tried and true russian tech, much of which is being or has been recently modernised. This is not going to be Iraq/Afghanistan where a nation massively crippled by sanctions for decades has to fight a far technologically and numerically superior enemy. This will be a nation with moderate technological inferiority and significant numerical superiority that has enjoyed an unprecedented boom and supplies much of materials necessary for its opponent to fight the war in the first place.
It's not a war you can win. Even a victory would likely be a phyrric one, nuclear weapons or not.
NK leadership got no balls
if you want to get into a dick waving contest with the u.s... just remember who has the black president, and who has the fat asian in charge....
It depends - if the US agrees to no longer station its forces on the Korean peninsula, I'd imagine they'd agree readily - remove North Korea from the equation and why is the US arming South Korea/maintaining a division there? Depending on how Japan-Korean relations stand these days, the US might be well served to try to let a Japan/Korea alliance (economic more than military) play regional counterweight to China.
NATO's classic long term strategy is to encircle its strategic enemies. This was done with USSR, and this is being done with China. There will be an equally cold day in hell when USA will pull out of South Korea with importance of China's encirclement increasing rapidly in near future.
The strength of his rhetoric is direct reflection of his weakness.
Problem with North Korea?
Nuke Pyongyang.
No problem.
Korean reunification?
Read above.
Fata viam invenient.
Actually the South Koreans reckon they are quite close to a deal with China
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/29/wikileaks-cables-china-reunified-korea
In highly sensitive discussions in February this year, the-then South Korean vice-foreign minister, Chun Yung-woo, told a US ambassador, Kathleen Stephens, that younger generation Chinese Communist party leaders no longer regarded North Korea as a useful or reliable ally and would not risk renewed armed conflict on the peninsula, according to a secret cable to Washington.
Chun, who has since been appointed national security adviser to South Korea's president, said North Korea had already collapsed economically.
Political collapse would ensue once Kim Jong-il died, despite the dictator's efforts to obtain Chinese help and to secure the succession for his son, Kim Jong-un.
"Citing private conversations during previous sessions of the six-party talks , Chun claimed [the two high-level officials] believed Korea should be unified under ROK [South Korea] control," Stephens reported.
"The two officials, Chun said, were ready to 'face the new reality' that the DPRK [North Korea] now had little value to China as a buffer state - a view that, since North Korea's first nuclear test in 2006, had reportedly gained traction among senior PRC [People's Republic of China] leaders. Chun argued that in the event of a North Korean collapse, China would clearly 'not welcome' any US military presence north of the DMZ [demilitarised zone]. Again citing his conversations with [the officials], Chun said the PRC would be comfortable with a reunified Korea controlled by Seoul and anchored to the US in a 'benign alliance' - as long as Korea was not hostile towards China. Tremendous trade and labour-export opportunities for Chinese companies, Chun said, would also help 'salve' PRC concerns about . a reunified Korea.
"Chun dismissed the prospect of a possible PRC military intervention in the event of a DPRK collapse, noting that China's strategic economic interests now lie with the United States, Japan and South Korea - not North Korea."
Chun told Stephens China was unable to persuade Pyongyang to change its self-defeating policies - Beijing had "much less influence than most people believe" - and lacked the will to enforce its views.
A senior Chinese official, speaking off the record, also said China's influence with the North was frequently overestimated. But Chinese public opinion was increasingly critical of the North's behaviour, the official said, and that was reflected in changed government thinking.
Previously hidden tensions between Pyongyang and its only ally were also exposed by China's then vice-foreign minister in a meeting in April 2009 with a US embassy official after North Korea blasted a three-stage rocket over Japan into the Pacific. Pyongyang said its purpose was to send a satellite into orbit but the US, South Korea and Japan saw the launch as a test of long-range missile technology.
Discussing how to tackle the issue with the charge d'affaires at the Beijing embassy, He Yafei observed that "North Korea wanted to engage directly with the United States and was therefore acting like a 'spoiled child' in order to get the attention of the 'adult'. China encouraged the United States, 'after some time', to start to re-engage the DPRK," according to the diplomatic cable sent to Washington.
You could imagine a deal where US forces stay south of the DMZ to keep the Chinese happy. So South Korean forces would need to occupy the North.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Seems like a remake of Leonard Wibberley's "The Mouse That Roared" and glorious leader is acting more like Prime Minister Count Rupert Mountjoy.
So many comments but everyone has missed the obvious solution here: we get David Hasselhoff to sing a song and send him in with Chuck Norris as backup. Sorted.
And it all turns out that all the (North) Vietnamese really wanted was for excessive foreign influence to GTFO. (French did a lot to wear out their welcome. U.S. probably wouldn't have been there if not for the French pleading for help combined with McCarthyism paranoia.) Communism was chosen at the time for the convenience it provided in getting the backing needed to do so. They only fought as hard as they did to be in control of their own country. It also shows considering how things went with their Chinese Communist "friends" in 1979 over a border dispute.
And it in the long run not much was lost. (Other than a waste of lives and resources.) Once left alone, hostilities ceased. And things turned out not so bad considering what the country desires in their current economic relationship with their former adversaries from the Vietnam War. For all it cost them, it appears they see that war mostly as a big stupid misunderstanding. However their independence in terms of being a soverign country is more than worth it.
Please explain how anything in my suggestion was throwing them to the wolves.
Here's what you wrote and what I quoted:
I have no doubt that if they were offered a complete disarmament of the Korean peninsula, in exchange for providing defense, as the US does for Japan, China would be willing to invade NK to put an end to their insanity.
That's throwing both Koreas to the wolves. First, the US would be dismantling the only counterweight to Chinese military power in the region and simultaneously allowing that power to be extended throughout the Korea peninsula. Second, it'd be explicit approval of Chinese annexation of North Korea.
I'd also wager that the US would lose in short order both Japan and Taiwan to China's sphere of influence after such an action. Not because China would do anything special to court or coerce them, but merely because the US could no longer be relied on to protect them against Chinese power.
Further, the precedent of allowing China to take over North Korea militarily would probably encourage them in further such military adventures say with Indochina as well as implicit approval of similar past Chinese military actions, particularly the annexation of Tibet.
Finally, the current state of affairs strengthens the Chinese factions that favors economic power over military power. Allowing the Chinese military such a victory shifts power to them, especially when coupled with the above defections and military opportunities. More Chinese decisions will then be made on a military basis than on an economic one. I think that will result in a lot of trouble and a far more warlike empire down the road.
This has been going on for decades...
If there was anything else in the news, it would be a non story...
Murphy was an optimist
this is going to impact the cost of computer components
If the NK Soldiers are going hungry, the USA should drop food packets all over NK wherever troops are positioned. Dropping food instead of dropping bombs would yield a better result.
That's throwing both Koreas to the wolves. First, the US would be dismantling the only counterweight to Chinese military power in the region and simultaneously allowing that power to be extended throughout the Korea peninsula. Second, it'd be explicit approval of Chinese annexation of North Korea.
And has no negative effects on South Korea, so I don't see it as throwing South Korea to the wolves. I don't recall if I said it near that statement, but I've said multiple times that a condition of China rule is an open border between NK and SK if administered separately. If someone lived in NK and didn't like it, they could move to SK. Again, I don't see how any of that throws someone in Seoul "to the wolves" when NK is no longer at war with them and has no weapons pointed at them. Seems like an improvement.
The rest isn't an issue with Korea, but your anti-China bias showing when any "deal" with them is the same as flying to Lhasa and shooting a Tibetan in the head. I'm too rational and well informed to fall for that.
Learn to love Alaska
I think there are a large number of solutions that China and South Korea would agree to, but the USA would interfere with anything that doesn't leave them with a large military presence on the peninsula. China would be happy with a demilitarized, unified Korea under SK rule, but it likely uncomfortable with a SK control of NK with no influence, leaving SK free to sell bases on China's border to the USA, which the US would try to guild SK into for defending them for all these years.
Learn to love Alaska
If a reunified Korea asked US forces to leave they'd do so. Just like they did in Saudi Arabia.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Hi,
That's not really true. If this study is true- and it is definitely more accurate than the North Korean "sea of fire" claims, there would be ~30k civilian casualties, or even as little as ~1k in best case. A war would still be horrible, but not as bad as North Korea claims.
http://us4.campaign-archive1.com/?u=0de7e0e84dc3aff619f936a70&id=c284fb3f9b&e=9d45c18d86
The actual war would be terrible, but the initial artillery barrage wouldn't be that bad all things considered. And the study doesn't say much about total casualties throughout the war.
--Coder
Ha, I know what's happening: The South Koreans have paid this fat guy Kim Sick Ung (or however it's written) to scare me off and avoid an embarrassing defeat in the Daegu 10K race next April 14, becuase they know I will make them smell my farts.
Koreans of North and South alike, prepare to be PWND by the first ever Dutch racing team to land on your shores!!
Put the beer in the fridge, we are coming!
-- 29A the number of the Beast
And has no negative effects on South Korea,
Aside from now being forced to follow the direction of the leaders of China.
If someone lived in NK and didn't like it, they could move to SK.
Unless they were prohibited from doing so by China which now controls the region. See where I'm going with this?
but your anti-China bias showing
Why shouldn't I have anti-China bias? We're not speaking of a mostly honest government like Switzerland. If we give them a free gift of power, then they will take it. That's just what'll happen.
. See where I'm going with this?
Yeah, you are hearing a proposal with conditions, then picking and choosing the conditions you think are good are not followed, and the conditions that are bad are not followed, then somehow asserting your inconsistency as a fault of the proposal. I see exactly where you are going with this.
Why shouldn't I have anti-China bias?
China has been historically very anti-imperialist. Nearly every war they've ever been involved in was started by someone else attacking them.
I know you whine about then needing to get out of Tibet and such. Sure, right after England exists Scotland and Ireland. Nearly every country has an area they annexed at some point. Tibetans considered themselves Chinese, just not Han, so a "unified China" should include them. At least the Chinese haven't gone after Malasia or Singapore (ethnically very Chinese).
I still don't get why you fear and hate them. Is there some reason, or is it just another irrational racial/nationalistic bias?
Learn to love Alaska
Duh, Obama?
Stop.
Stop feeding APK.
Ignore APK; it will go away.
replying to the blasts only serves to feed its dependence.
Apply discipline and resist the urge to respond...
end-of-line
I am not sure if anyone else has said this but there are Chinese people in Korea too that are probably sick of the North Korean situation. They might have some kind of influence in China. Of course this is just speculation.
Globalisation has been around for a while now...there are Chinese all over the world and many have lost their Chinese citizenship.
They can't do that!! The Allies never signed a Peace Treaty so we have been at war since the 1950s. I am not sure what the correct term is but there has been an agreed cease fire in place all these years. This enable UN and other countries to assist with food aid etc.
Right, because all that's required to change all of this confusion is for the President to call up Kim Jong Un and say, "Hey, why don't you come over for a beer?"
This is the problem with this petition system: "We, the People," are too dumb to understand that there are some people who have NO interest in "peace" and "stability," because "peace and stability" will spell the rapid end of their regimes.
Grow up - this petition basically says, "Light a prayer candle for peace!" Except it actually accomplishes LESS than lighting a prayer candle would.
Ahem, those weren't girls...
While some people in the weapon industry may have no interest in "peace" and "stability", I don't think peace and stability are any threat to Obama's regime ;-)
Because APK stalks and harasses anyone foolish enough to engage him.
I've seen him (the original APK) follow the same poster from thread to thread for days and weeks constantly mocking them and claiming some kind of argument 'victory' and linking to the exchange he 'won'. Each subsequent post links back to the earlier ones until you have a ridiculous list of frothing self congratulation, peppered with the same phrases.
People have tried, gently, pointing out that his style is almost incomprehensible, that his behaviour seems childish and deeply insecure - they are attacked, challenged and then stalked.
Long before these mockeries, I'd wade through threads where a significant portion of the comments were APK replying to himself with minor changes to the cut-n-paste, loudly singing his own praises or declaring some kind of victory. Ignoring him doesn't work. He'll find some other poor person to take offence at/with and follow them around, spamming replies for weeks - longer if they attempt to engage him. Too many drugs or not enough - I've seen accusations of recreational drug use of a kind that leads to both paranoia and obsession. Who knows?
These, however, are brilliant. APK's posts have slowed to a trickle. He's having to spend more time trying to convince people that they aren't his than harassing regular users. Where attempts to persuade him that his content and style are bordering on the incomprehensible have failed, maybe people being unable to distinguish between his posts and these parodies will finally get him to moderate his style or, as seems to be happening, leave.
I say 'bravo'. I've very much enjoyed the Time Cube post and trying to spot how many meme's have been woven through.
To be clear, I am not JC nor one of the others that have been posting parodies of APK - just someone who has run into APK both here and on other forums.
Something one should remember when disseminating such information: source is an interested party.
Remember the Iraqi in exile who told USA leadership that they would be welcomed as liberators in Iraq?