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With XP's End of Life, Munich Will Distribute Ubuntu CDs
SmartAboutThings writes "Windows XP is going to officially die and stop receiving support from Microsoft in April, 2014. After that very moment, it is said to become a gold mine for hackers all over the world who will exploit 'zero-day' vulnerabilities. The municipality of the German city of Munich wants to stop that from happening [and] has decided to distribute free CDs with Ubuntu 12.04 to users of the almost extinct XP. Munich, through its Gasteig Library, will prepare around 2000 CDs with Ubuntu 12.04 to offer to city residents affected by Windows XP's end of support. Previously, it was believed that Munich city's authorities were going to offer Lubuntu 12.04, which would have required lower system requirements with the same support period."
On the upside, Linux is being given away by a government as the successor to Windows xp. On the downside, how many kids/grandkids are there that will know how to fix their parents/grandparents Linux machines? I guess you could say I'm cautiously optimistic
Ubuntu can be kept up to date and the latest with an internet connection - that's easier than buying a new version and re-install every time a new OS comes out. Question is if people know what it is and what to do with it.
Why not offer it to everyone, regardless of their current OS, if they want it?
Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
Mint would have been better.
You put the CD in .. it loads up a bit ... the internet comes on and thats all people who don't use/like computers use a computer for. When the HDD breaks they point to the monitor and say the CPU is broken and ask if they need more RAMS.
and oh bollox I've answered an AC. lunch break over soon.
Going from a Windows 7 to an XP system is like night and day. Everything just works and works more smoothly. No hunting and having to search (why the fuck should I have to search for something on my own system?) for what I need. No buried menus to turn crap off.
With XP I never have to wait for the system to tell me, a minute or so later, that I mistyped a network resource, the whole time preventing me from retyping the correct path.
To use the tired phrase, "You can have my XP when you pry it from cold, dead hands."
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Nice idea, but Ubuntu is, by default, about the least XP-like common Linux distro they could have chosen. Mint-MATE or something would be less of a culture shock.
By April 2014, Ubuntu 14.04 should arrive as the next LTS version.
I would certainly want that (or a derived distribution) rather than Ubuntu 12.04, especially in a PC with AMD graphics. The open source drivers for ATI/AMD are still catching up in features and performance, and 14.04 vs. 12.04 should make a significant difference.
C - the footgun of programming languages
Linux has never been a serious threat to Windows in the desktop area. What will happen is people will pick up the CD's because it is free, and never install them. As for things like loosing your existing programs, and possible your documents is a big deal. Chances are they will just see it as an opportunity to get new hardware. And will get Windows 8, they will complain and then get use to it, and not care anymore.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Maybe if you tighten the bits your programs will stop being loose?
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
This is the average user summarized in once sentence, no matter which OS they use.
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
AOL CDs and Floppy Disks. Great for leveling that kitchen table that has one leg shorter than the rest.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
I believe the idea is to get people off XP before EOL, and that means 12.04. Once 14.04 drops, they'll as likely as not start handing that out instead.
No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
First, TFA is about a relatively small giveaway by the city of Munich, Germany. Nobody offered to provide free Ubuntu DVDs to large parts of Asia.
Second, Canonical is a British company, owned by Mark Shuttleworth who is a South African.
Third, locking people in with a version of Linux would be a lot harder than with Windows. Because you can get most, if not all, of the system from another distributor. Legally too (if you don't care about that, Windows is also available from "other distributors", at a very low price ;-)
C - the footgun of programming languages
It's not just China.
I'm a rather cutting-edge tech person, but even I have left XP on my work laptop and a couple of our home systems simply because they simply can't run Win7, nor do I see any compelling reason to upgrade - they function perfectly fine for the limited uses they serve (ie one's a minecraft server for a dozen friends, the other is a guest-internet machine for my kids' friends that come over).
Not to mention, the HUGE bulk of computers that I support - ie my extended family - are all XP.
Further, isn't about the 34th time "XP end of life" has been announced? I was told they would NEVER be patching xp again, and I just GOT another patch last week.
-Styopa
I doubt that. Most of these people are using XP because it was the last consumer Windows with a volume license key. Just because the patches have stopped doesn't mean they are going to throw away their operating system. You will likely find they are running a bunch of Dell P4 machines that others have thrown out
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
Further, isn't about the 34th time "XP end of life" has been announced? I was told they would NEVER be patching xp again, and I just GOT another patch last week.
End of XP support is announced for April 2014. And yes, it has been extended before. If Microsoft is serious this time or if they will give in with another support extension is anyone's guess.
C - the footgun of programming languages
And who's going to support the people who are being introduced to an entirely new operating system and applications installed on an ancient computer? Assuming they can get it installed.
I've had people accidentally install Windows 7 over Windows 7 and lose all their documents due to re-partitioning. So yeah, saying random citizens are qualified to make a full switch over to Linux themselves is ridiculous. Plus, then they end up with a printer that has no drivers or an unsupported or glitchy graphics card driver. Windows 8 is hell on Earth in UI form but at least it functions properly.
Microsoft is not breaking the OS, they are ceasing support. You make it sound like they are the boogie man killing babies for profit. They are not spending any more money on a 12-year-old product which generates 0 revenue.
Sorry; Should M$ produce products out of the good of their hearts? Or perhaps they should enslave those 1st world programmers so maintaining the OS doesn't cost so much? Or maybe you would rather everyone everywhere stayed on XP forever?
Migration away from XP can also go the other way - if the hardware is too slow for windows 7, it might run windows 2000 fine - a version currently too obscure for hackers to attack.
I guess I understand them not wanting to do last-minute dispatches, since 14.04 is scheduled to come out in the same month they're releasing these CDs... but they're just going to have to upgrade the 12.04 systems almost immediately since 14.04 (the next LTS) will be released that same month.
Previously, it was believed that Munich city's authorities were going to offer Lubuntu 12.04, which would have required lower system requirements with the same support period.
I have Ubuntu 12.04 LTS running on a nine year old P4. I won't say it's fast, but it works and is usable and probably works as fast as XP. I would only recommend using Gnome Classic (Gnome 2 like) as standard desktop, as it's much more intuitive than Unity. If Munich really wants this to work, they should create some kind of social work project that employs a bunch of people who can help Munich citizens to migrate. Just putting that CD in your computer will definitely result in data loss for many people I'm afraid.
This is a nice sentiment by Munich, but the many of the folks who are running XP and try and install Ubuntu 12 will be in for a nasty surprise -
32 bit machines without PAE will not load with most newer Linuxes. Most, including Ubuntu, no longer include 32 bit non-PAE kernels in their installers.
I found this out when I tried putting a modern albeit tiny Linux onto my FitPC 1 and an older EPIA motherboard - XP runs fine on these, but finding a linux is probably beyond the skill of most XP users. Jury rigging a different kernel in is definitely out.
A lot of older XP installs are also running on older hardware. Just giving away an OS will not magically fix this. And if these folks upgrade the hardware, it probably comes with a newer windows anyway.
Windows 8 is hell on Earth in UI form but at least it functions properly.
I don't really consider something as "functions properly" when it's "hell on Earth" to use.
>They are not spending any more money on a 12-year-old product which generates 0 revenue.
I bet it does make them some money. Where I work, we still had a lot of NT4 servers until about 2-3 years ago. MS wanted GBP 3m to support them (with patches) the current year, then 6m then 12m. Needless to say, that focussed people a bit and the systems were migrated/replaced.
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
Zero day?
How old is XP ?
If hackers haven't found holes in Win XP by now, they never will
And theres also 3rd party antivirus and firewall software, I presume that the commercial security software will be continue for subscribers.
Ask someone why they are still running XP and yo9u will probably get the answer that they have legacy software that doesn't work on newer versions of the OS, or they like the old interface. They are not likely to want to go to a completely different OS that looks different and won't run the old software.
Pretty much anything you could do on a Windows XP machine you could accomplish with a tablet or a Chromebook fo r that matter.
With the added bonus of a much smaller screen
Sounds like the right way to solve the problem.
I wonder if there will be legal consequences when some people inevitably wipe their hard drive clean of 10 years of data they never bothered backing up. I can imagine a lot of people who simply have absolutely no idea what they are doing with a computer in this fashion may brave it anyway only find themselves in this position after thinking it is some sort of direct upgrade. I can see a mindset of 'Well, the city endorses it!'
Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
One will lose programs whether one switches to Ubuntu or stays with Windows. I have virtual box where I maintain a windows xp system without any service packs. If a program will not run on service pack 3 of xp, I will try installing it under that one and it usually will run. Recently I found a wireless mouse at a garage sale so I tried it on a Ubuntu computer. Nothing happened but when I put it on a windows xp system the computer responded and loaded the drivers. It was working in a couple of minutes without any hassle. The same goes with pc cameras as they will install without a cd on a windows xp but not at all with Ubuntu. Changing to Ubuntu means losing programs and hardware and since no one advertises their hardware as being compatible with Ubuntu, one has to guess. This is hard when one is looking for a printer since a lot of them will not work with Ubuntu. Than there is the software for Ubuntu. I can very easily find out how much hard drive space I have left under windows but it is a pain to find out under Ubuntu. When someone writes a Ubuntu program that does the same thing that windows explorer does than I would be happier with Ubuntu. I still have a computer running widows xp and until Microsoft guarantees that their new operating system will run all of my programs and hardware, I will not consider upgrading.
I don't know if U/12 is as bloated as some of the other releases but I'm betting it will bring a P4 to it's knees.
I have tried test installs on older equipment and been far from pleased with performance,
I suppose if you are used to dial up speeds this may not be a big issue.
If my attention span has moved on before it can boot up I'm going to be looking for some other solution.
Rick B.
It makes sense. Cannonical has been working for years to make Linux just as bad as Windows. By now Ubuntu should be pretty good as a drop in replacement for Microsoft products.
Upgrading a system to install windows 8 instead of windows XP is very difficult for unqualified people and will require almost the same installation time than Ubuntu and will probably have more driver issues than ubuntu (ubuntu works better on old hardware than recent windows).
I must admit that it is difficult to find qualified people on ubuntu.
Windows 8 is hell on Earth in UI form but at least it functions properly.
I'd prefer a glitchy heaven.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
What can we do to cash in on this without looking like total dicks? Oh! I know... how about we pull support for their dominant operating system and force them to spend hundreds of millions on upgrade fees!
That would require that they license properly to begin with. But it's common knowledge that this isn't the case.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
We are still stuck on WinXP and most of my coworkers have fairly outdated laptops (think core2duo with 2gb of RAM). Right now with XP by the time it is started along with all the other mess our IT wants running I'm sitting at 1GB utilization. Open up a few of my apps I use for data analysis and I'm pushing the limit of what I've got. Usually have a 15-20 minute startup time as well just due to being slow.
I asked about upgrade plans and they were wanting to switch to us using a term server and logging into it using Citrix Metaframe. That ended up being crap because they couldn't figure out how to give us individualized desktops and weren't willing to give us the storage we needed (5gb per user is a joke for what I do).
So yeah... this is going to be interesting times.
This had Unity on by default, doesn't it? Epic fail.
We can almost hear one of one Redmond’s richest residents rubbing his hands together with glee.
Unity is almost as relevant to Ubuntu 12.04 as ASIMO is to Honda’s latest hatchback.
I had Ubuntu 12.04 installed for a short time and HATED it as well. The overall look and feel of the default Unity desktop manager is like it is trying to be a hybrid desktop/tablet OS and doing a half assed job at both. It managed to combine annoying, confusing and pandering on a level almost up there with Microsoft Bob. One wonders if this is a surreptitious reverse advertisement for Windows 8.
Absolutely. Security through obscurity is always the best security.
I've had people accidentally install Windows 7 over Windows 7 and lose all their documents due to re-partitioning.
Have you ever installed Ubuntu? It's dead simple, even my grandma can create a dual boot system, which it does by default. There's a slider for how much drive space you want Windows to keep and how much you want to give Ubuntu.
You put in the CD, turn it on, and wait for the desktop to appear. Then you can use GNU/Linux to look at your documents and files, and use Firefox to browse the web (it's a Live CD), see if there will be glitch driver support or not (everyone should have a GNU/Linux or BSD live CD, just in case whatever OS files become corrupt you can still get at your files and use the web). If it's all good, you double click the desktop icon to install it, pick a keyboard and language and timezone, move a slider and soon you've got a dual boot system -- which means you can use Ubuntu and if for some reason you need to run your windows programs you can just reboot into windows (though wine can run a lot of windows programs -- it is a bit retarding for newbs to get programs into, needs a "here's my old windows partition" option, IMO).
It's actually very simple. Win7 installer is a bit more complex, but still easy. Try creating a dual boot Windows setup to try Win8 out. Clicking a few wrong buttons in any software will produce results you didn't want...
So yeah, saying random citizens are qualified to make a full switch over to Linux themselves is ridiculous.
You are a fool. It's too fucking easy. The average person isn't THAT dumb. It's about as difficult as installing any windows software [ next, next, next, install ].
Windows 8 is hell on Earth in UI form but at least it functions properly.
Correction: You are a troll or maybe a shill? Win8 doesn't fucking work for upgrades. It works SOMETIMES, most times it doesn't work. I installed W8 on a Toshiba laptop that came with Win7... USB drivers and Ethernet and WIFI don't work... So, put in a GNU/Linux live CD, booted up, wifi works, USB works, ethernet works, get on the web, go to the hardware vendor's site, download drivers and put them in the windows's user directory. Then reboot. THEN I could get windows 8 to work -- Except the USB drivers. So, I can't use any USB devices. The hardware vendors made the correct driver I'm told (after hours of support phone tag, saying W8 isn't supported, BTW, whatever cop-out they can give), however, the folks uploading the drivers to their support system copied the same Win7 USB driver where the W8 driver is.
I've had similar problem with downgrading from W8 to W7, but with an ethernet driver. Plop in a Linux CD, and it actually works. Point being: For every issue you can point out with Linux not working, there are AT LEAST as many instances of Windows8 shitting the bed. Ethernet?! USB?! WTF, it's a small number of chipsets that are widely supported, why create a different driver for each different vendor if they have the same cards under the plastic? The windows devs are idiots.
While I agree with your general feelings on the matter (except the part that MS has to guarantee you anything) I feel that your grammar and formatting take a lot away from your message.
Delivery counts, nerds. At least make an attempt to write on the same level as the average 6th grader.
I think this might be called security through antiquity.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
and w/ a kernel compiled so as to support the ancient machines people still running Windows XP are still using?
Is there any hope of ReactOS being useful as a general-purpose replacement by then?
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
Wikipedia says 12.04 is supported until 2017.
Further. Why stop there? Windows 95 is the earliest you can go whilst keeping your start button. I don't personally have a start button, but I hear it is extremely important to an operating system.
Well, what do you expect from such unfortunate monstrosities? The average person has less than two eyes, only one boob and one testicle.
Not exactly true. There are a *few* things that my XP machine is uniquely qualified to do. I have some old managed Cisco/Linksys switches in my network that require a really old Internet Explorer version to configure. Apparently there are some old Java Script bugs in the version of IE that the switches depend on, and no other browser works.
So, at least for me, I'll be running XP for a long time to come..
Also, the machine may be inefficient compared to newer models, but I submit that the costs of scrapping my old machine and building a replacement would make up the difference in operating costs for a LONG time. Replacing the old laptop with a *cheap* new one, would cost $300 or so. Assuming my new laptop burns 100 Watts less power and power costs $0.12 per KW/Hour that works out to 250,000 hours of operation for me to break even. There are only 8,760 hours in a year, so it's going to take nearly 30 years of constant operating to "break even". (BTW I don't think the power savings would be even close to 100W because my old laptop only uses 65W total..)
The only real arguments for upgrade is performance, reliability or space. Need to do more in less space? You might need to upgrade. Things starting to fail more often than you like? Replace it. Trying to save power? It's unlikely to actually be cost effective.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
But how efficient is it to get rid of a working machine?
Not very.
Let's say you managed to get 200 Watts of power savings, at $300 replacement cost and $0.12 per KW/Hour electricity cost. It's going to take 15 or so years of continuous operation to get your upgrade investment costs back. It is usually not wise to make investments that require more than a few years to break even. In this case, 15 years greatly exceeds the expected lifespan of the equipment so I'm very sure it is NOT worth it.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
I've been using Windows 8 since its release and haven't gotten used to it, despite using all sorts of third party 'reversion' programs (replacement start menu etc). Personal experience and the experience watching others fumble through Windows 8 a year after it's release shows people aren't "getting used to it", Regardless, suggesting to "suffer and get used to something" that *should* be an improvement over the replacement but isn't is ridiculous.
Of course, it all makes sense now!!
Dual booting could be a popular option so that people can keep their old programs and data files. They should simply use Ubuntu for their web surfing and cloud activities. Keeping a separate drive or partition for shared data between the two OS's takes a small amount of time up front and makes the data sharing much easier.
I prefer a Smoothly running Purgatory so what's your point?
Not only "No but hell No! I don't run OSX.
I'm a Gentoo Ricer and I don't use that abomination called systemd as it breaks the LFHS (linux file system hierarchy standard) by forcing /usr to be part of the root mount point. Sorry but I've got /usr on a seperate partition, just like /boot /temp /var and /home for improved security and stability as once the system is stable, I change fstab to mount /usr read-only and I don't mount /portage at all (seperate partition). No I didn't do this so I could use a number of smaller drives - everything fits into 40GB with ease on a 500GB drive.
The idiot that created systemd should be taken out back and forced to use win8 for eternity as that's exactly the kind of shit I'd expect MS to pull as part of their Embrace, Extend, Exterminate
Mod me up/Mod me down: I wont frown as I've no crown
Lower security risk with people contributing; people using XP will be thankful; MS make less money...etc. So many benefits!
If you look at the last 3 months http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-monthly-201306-201308, you'll see that the decline has stopped. As of last month, they peg the users of XP at a little over 20%. As the second largest OS, that seems significant to me.
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
I ran Win2k until earlier this year. Everyone kept tutting about how vulnerable I was to viruses, etc. In more than 10 years, not one. But they smiled and said I was just too dumb to know. Anyway, I believe that a 3rd party firewall, antivirus and any net-interacting software, kept up top date, and it doesn't matter how soggy the OS is under it. When the PC died I put XP on the new one; as more software was becoming incompatible with 2k. The real problem will come when Firefox is not updated for XP -- I think it is on its last legs for 2k compatibility. And Flash is already incompatible, so lots of websites didn't work properly.
Ubuntu us a newbie-friendly OS for those stuck on Windows for many years. The city of Munich is brilliant for doing this. Finally, a government entity that is looking out for its own citizens, and not being lobbied by big money. Excellent to see this. If only other governments would catch on.
There's just something fundamentally wrong with a company abandoning a product with such a huge install base. It's a huge Internet public health issue. Microsoft has a social responsibility by virtue of their success to act. I see four reasonable possibilities here.
1. Microsoft keeps releasing security patches for XP.
2. Microsoft ships a version of Windows 8 that will run on XP grade hardware.
3. Microsoft spins off XP into a company that will continue to support it.
4. Microsoft releases XP source code so that others can (at least have a chance to) patch it.
Eventually, all XP grade hardware will die, but with the advent of low power/low cost hardware XP could see a second coming if Microsoft would just support it. It's not like there isn't a huge amount of reasonably good software for the platform.
Imagine if a company in India bought XP and started releasing XP SP4 for like $10 or $20. So cheap that the 1st world wouldn't both to pirate it and still affordable to many in the 3d world.
Competition Good, Monopoly Bad.
I have to disagree with you on the fact that most of those systems Can't run Win7. Hell The only systems that can run Win7 are the ones that can't run XP/SP2 as that was the real cutoff point for Win7 - XP/SP3 was the cutoff point for Vista, which has higher hardware requirements. Yes I know it because I have a laptop that ran XP/SP1 that claimed to be Vista Ready. Guess what, the damn thing couldn't run Vista at all yet Win7 works far better then XP/SP3 did.
What I suspsect China is going to do is mandate that everyone move to Red Flag Linux (State Sponsored OS) or they'll lose the internet. They may allow some locations to access the net with Windows Systems - mainly Hotels and some business with lots of Foreign travellers. Otherwsie, the common citizen will be using Red Flag within the next 5 years.
Mod me up/Mod me down: I wont frown as I've no crown
If there is a driver for win8 it will probably work also for win7. I had more problems when I downgraded my new laptop to windows 7 32 bit: in the end I ended up switching to win7 64 bit anyway because I couldn't find working 32 bit drivers for the network card. Now I have to change a lot of programs, and invent trics for others (I installed Delphi 7 in C:\Programs because it tends to change things in its install dir when you install a package which gives errors when it tries to do that in C:\Program files (x86) ).
I've never seen a tablet that could burn DVD's. Perhaps the Surface Pro could with an external writer but that one is much too expensive.
In the past, on /., when this story about Munich adapting Linux was making the rounds, it was a homegrown distro - LiMux - which was being adapted by the city. The last time this was covered, they had already saved a substantial amount.
Which then begs this question - why are they then pushing Lubuntu, particularly since LXDE is undergoing a change in going from GTK+ 3 to Qt 5?
XP will be a 13 year old OS no longer getting updated, categorizing that as American imperialism or meddling is bizarre.
Poor Chinese people don't have 13 year old computers incapable of running Vista or 7 or 8, they use Internet off their phones or at internet gaming cafes (and internet gaming cafes would NEVER pay for a Windows license). You're assuming Chinese people actually pay for their OS, which doesn't happen - you can easily download the OS of Chinese sites, or buy a bootleg for 50 cents. Most computer places will install the bootleg for you.
You're projecting your own anti-Americanism onto a situation you don't really understand.
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
you are so stuck in the 1990s with your comments on printer drivers etc
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Further, isn't about the 34th time "XP end of life" has been announced? I was told they would NEVER be patching xp again, and I just GOT another patch last week.
End of XP support is announced for April 2014. And yes, it has been extended before. If Microsoft is serious this time or if they will give in with another support extension is anyone's guess.
Remember this is the company that outright declared war on it's own desktop monopoly to force Metro and the Microsoft App Store down the throats of any new PC buyer. I don't think there's any reason for them to delay at all - and a huge reason for them to go forward (ie, increased Win7 sales, or new PC purchases that come with Win8). I especially think that, governmental action aside, there's no "save the users" reason - even the potential 0-day apocalypse - that Microsoft would care about continuing life-support for XP.
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
MS will keep windows 7 for some time and may have to some level of XP like extended support at least till windows 9 SP1 or windows 9.X
I wouldn't consider it a 12 year old product. They only stopped selling Windows XP in 2009. So, I would say it's only about 5 years old. Calling it 12 years old is a little bit misleading, because if you bought a machine with Windows on it in 2008, it's very likely it could have come with Windows XP. It didn't even have a successor until Vista came out in 2006, and almost nobody wanted to switch to that. The first real OS worth upgrading to was Windows 7, which didn't come out until 2009.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
On the server side. The desktop stuff is supported until April 2015. I've got a 10.04 VM that I keep for old time's sake and the desktop stuff no longer gets updated, but backend stuff does.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
I have a LOT of applications I paid for on my XP box that I have no intention of re-purchasing or trying to find again. But I'm getting very irked with the direction Windows has gone in and have made a decision.
My next computer will more likely than not be a Linux laptop. Either Ubuntu or Debian. And it will have VirtualBox installed with an image of my XP box that runs in it. That way if I need the apps I can just fire up the VM and do what I have to and shut it down when I'm finished.
Typing? You can't be serious.
How do i even do that with my mouse?
And.. not even drive letters? Makes me wonder how few sane people actually work on improving Lunix.
CLI paste? paste.pr0.tips!
I know it's been mentioned elsewhere... make a VM out of the XP box. This works surprisingly well. Whatever host OS you decide to use shouldn't matter a great deal so long as you have the disk space and memory to accomplish it. For business use, my XP VM has only 1.5GB allocated and will run acceptably in 1GB.
Yeah! It's downright criminal that M$ won't continue to support an OS that came out before the Iraq war, or SARS, or the first US case of Mad Cow, or Gray Davis getting recalled, or Greenspan retiring from the fed, or Hurricane Katrina, or The release of three more operating systems from Microsoft.... Let's be reasonable. XP is four versions old at this point. It's time to put it out to pasture.
Most people will take it to BestBuy/ FS where they lug their old, dusty box up to the counter. The tech smirks and waits for it.
Cust: "I want to upgrade my PC to 8!"
Tech: "OK!, I will have to charge you $40 to look at it and clean it out, $60 for DDR2/DDR RAM that hasn't been made for 4 years, $50 for a PCIe GPU (you do want the fancy desktop right...?), $150 for the Windows 8 DVD, $100 to backup your old docs and viruses, and $150 to put windows and your viruses back on!"
Cust: "Umm where is your computer dept again?"
A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
I think perhaps you are focusing on the wrong thing here.
I would agree that linux is easy to install. Assuming that you dont have an older HDTV as a monitor. Or other "strange" things which requires hours of google time and forum hunting to figure out which text file needs to be edited even though on win xp or win 7, it "just worked".
Anyhow, hard or easy to install makes not one fuck bit of difference. It just doesnt.
It is ONLY to do with programs. What else is an OS if not to run your programs?
Nearly all business using program which can only run on Windows. Think time management software or report generating tools. Windows only. Or even self made access databases. Maybe it "could" be converted to open off, but maybe the guy who made the database quit 2 years ago and no one is there who can do it.
If you are in tech, you are stuck in windows. Period. All of our industry tools are windows only.
Even at home there are issues. I installed unbutu on my wifes old laptop after I was tired of cracking my less than legal windows install. Hey honey, I cant run my Chinese TV streaming program! After hours fucking with wine, I gave up and put on old xp install back on from a long dead PC.
Since then, I bought her a yoga 13 with Win 8. She loves it.
> Typing? You can't be serious.
> How do i even do that with my mouse?
You find the character you want to type, move the mouse over it while pressing the left mouse button. This is called the "copy" step.
Then you press the middle mouse button, and the character will appear magically! This is called the "paste" step.
Repeat for all characters you want to type.
Copy and paste a long empty line afterwards and the command will be executed!
Judging by the way Android devices are nailing PC sales, I'd say yeah, Linux has become a threat to the Windows desktop.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
For long term, this may work but the problem is that the laptop is currently an OEM license of XP that will not easily move. Hopefully Micro$oft will open XP up to be free of license restrictions come April, but I'm not going to be holding my breath lest the Blue Screen (face) of Death make a visit.
Before anybody gets sideways with me.. Yes I know that XP licenses have been cracked years ago and there are a multitude of ways to run it without a license.. I choose to honor the terms of software licenses I've agreed too whenever possible. After April, a hardware failure may make that impossible, but until then, the laptop will be able to boot XP, even if I'm normally using some other OS.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
The only reason XP was sold into 2010 was to cover the netbook market until the release of 7 (primarily due to how bad Vista was on slower machines). Other licenses were not sold after 2008.
The figure you are citing, 2009, was the end of mainstream service. To quote the wikipedia article you linked:
On April 14, 2009, Windows XP and its family of operating systems reached the end of their mainstream support period and entered the extended support phase as it marks the progression of the legacy operating system through the Microsoft Support Lifecycle Policy. During the extended support phase, Microsoft continues to provide security updates every month for Windows XP; ... Extended support will end on April 8, 2014â"after which no more security patches or new support information will be provided. While many organizations did not upgrade from XP due to the poor reception of Vista, Microsoft has since recommended that they migrate to newer versions of Windows due to the impending end of support.[2][114]
The writing has been on the wall for over five years. I don't know how much more they can do. Support a dead product indefinitely?
That is true, but it is not always clear which is which :-{
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
The guinea pig/sacrifical lamb in our organization who has been testing Windows 8 for the last four months still absolutely loathes it, and has requested she be returned to Windows 7. Her most frequent complaints surround the jarring context switch between the desktop and metro.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
They you are well on the way to being superman.The average XP machine, (excluding monitor) probably only has a 150W PSU, so saving 200W aint going to happen.
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
With the added bonus of more profit to a tablet manufactuer and more landfill to Africa.
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
I've had people accidentally install Windows 7 over Windows 7 and lose all their documents due to re-partitioning. So yeah, saying random citizens are qualified to make a full switch over to Linux themselves is ridiculous. Plus, then they end up with a printer that has no drivers or an unsupported or glitchy graphics card driver.
So, slashmydots, how much is Microsoft paying you for your lies? Yes, installing Windows 7 over Windows 7 will delete your files. Installing Linux will not, unless you're smoking crack. The default is to install dual-boot, if you choose to repartition you are warned sternly that "ALL YOUR DATA WILL BE UNRECOVERABLE!"
As to driver and video issues, those were gone ten years ago. So just STFU, Ballmer, and go play with your toy OS some more. BTW, Steve, since I have you here, when will a Windows box be able to log a default user on with a password without intervention? When will Windows boot without all the apps and documents reopened? When will Windows be able to use movies as wallpaper? When will Windows get all the other functionality Linux has had for years?
And will you quit deliberately slowing down machines with an older version of Windows when a newer one comes out? Do you really think you're selling new OSes that way? My notebook was fast and snappy 3 years ago, I'll be putting Linux on it this weekend (the HP tower is running Linux now).
Ballmer, your OS has absolutely no functionality that Linux lacks, but it lacks a lot of functionality Linux has had for years and I, for one, and sick of all the lying FUD from you damned shills. So put a sock in it, you're not fooling anyone.
Free Martian Whores!
MMM, crunchy frog heap good!
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
I was being generous...
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
For Windows operating system software licenses acquired through the OEM channel, the Windows use rights are outlined in the Software License Terms that accompany the software. These license terms provide use rights to run Windows locally on the licensed device in a virtual operating system environment (OSE).
(from page 1 of the document http://download.microsoft.com/download/9/8/D/98D6A56C-4D79-40F4-8462-DA3ECBA2DC2C/Licensing_Windows_Desktop_OS_for_Virtual_Machines.pdf ).
Shoot. I missed the "on the licensed device". Guess not.
Q. Can I install OEM on a virtual machine (VMware)?
A. You may install OEM in a virtual environment as long as you have a separate license for each instance of the software. It is fine to use the OEM version as long as it is properly licensed. To be clear, a separate version of software must be installed for both the “standard” and “virtual” installations.
(from http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/Pages/support-faq.aspx ) So you can't use the same OEM license for both the host and the guest (which makes sense), but it appears that you can use the OEM license on the guest only. I have no idea whether once installed on physical hardware if you can transfer that license to a VM. Why do they make this so confusing?
Not always true. I have worked on many machines where the Live CD will setup wireless/video/audio/other device and when the install has completed and rebooted, those things didn't work. I would have to manually install them. Usually not too difficult of a task but more of an annoyance.
--- If the bible proves the existence of God, then Superman comics prove the existence of Superman.
Incorrect. You would be right about earlier LTS releases (where it was 5 years support for server, 3 years for desktop), but 12.04 is 5 years for both. The implication was that this would be true for all LTS releases in the future, but I can't find a link for that at the moment in respect of 14.04.
Imagine a "Windows update" that upgrades a Windows XP machine to Windows 7 in some form or fashion. Absolutely deadly and a brilliant idea.
I find it quite easy to get people onto Linux when I brief them over what Linux is good for and to determine if Linux is a good fit for them. For example, I ask what they use most often. It's invariably internet related things -- email and web stuff but sometimes the netflix and stuff like that as well. And depending on their answers, I do or do not recommend using Linux... well, not entirely depending on their answers -- I factor in my own time and patience in with my recommendation as well. But I have been quite successful in reducing my troubles by getting people onto Linux instead of Windows. It mostly boils down to using, not what OS is running. Sure, the OS determines what apps run or are available, but where standards based activities are concerned, it matters a lot less and where the activity is more proprietary and closed in nature, it matters more. And since the world of many important and useful things are moving more into open standards, the OS is mattering less and less.
If this all applies to XP OEM licenses, then I *might* be able to copy the install to a VM, run sysprep and then reactivate... Assuming Microsoft's activation process will still be supported and allowed on an already active OEM license...
Again, I'm not holding my breath that this will be allowed. My guess is that Microsoft will shutdown their activation servers and refuse to do phone activations for XP unless you want to pay for support which will make it pretty hard to do any of this. I'm hoping that they simply do away with the activation thing and let valid key holders install and run as many XP instances as they want to install, but I seriously doubt they will want to do that.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
That type of bullshit (your IE thing) is exactly why Virtual XP Mode exists; a pre-configured XP VM that is free to users of Win7 Professional edition or higher, and is based on a fairly stock XP image including IE6. Run it when you need it, kill or hibernate it when you don't, and carry on with life.
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
Most people won't even notice that updates stopped in the first place, nor will care.
If the devil ran a sloppy ship, there would be alot more hell escapees. But, because its run well, still does not mean I would want to be there.
I managed to coax Ubuntu 13.04 (32-bit) into life on a Sony Vaio laptop, Athlon 1000, 512MB RAM (from c.2001) with Windows XP a couple of weeks ago.
I had to hack the install scripts to make it run with the VESA graphics drivers (the ancient ati ones were broken) but it ran quite nicely (without the composting desktop environment) with LXDE. Firefox was very responsive on it while compiling a bunch of code at the same time, running MySQL and a commercial Windows app under Wine.
Windows XP will not be missed.
Stick Men
I almost put something in that post about how "the business side would never go along with is because it dilutes the market for ...", but the thrust of the post was the social responsibility that companies have. If there are millions of unpatched XP boxes on the net, it could spell huge problems for the net as a whole and make the net unsafe and unusable for everyone. Profit may be job number one but it it squeezes out all other values it runs the risk of bringing down the whole system. Look what just happened to the baking industry as the result of unbridled greed. So while that may fail business 101 type reasoning, you fail business 501 and ethics 201 for being too shortsighted and polluting the well from which all drink.
Competition Good, Monopoly Bad.
If hackers have found holes in Win XP, they will be saving and then using them after April, 2014.
FTFY
I come here for the love
I couldn't get my Brother MFC-4800 working with Windows 7, but the linux drivers work fine with Linux Mint and Debian Stable.
One major area where I have found Linux lacking (and I use both Linux and Windows) is printing. I have had a really hard time getting any printer (most recently an old HP Laserjet 2100M, prior to that a Canon Laser imageCLASS MF4890dw) to work on Debian, Ubuntu, Mint or CentOS. I have got tired of messing around with CUPS, HPs Linux Imaging and Printing (a major disappointment), etc.
The HP Laserjet on Windows 8? Plugged it into the LPT port (my newer computers don't even have a port for this), and Windows automatically found and installed the drivers. I was printing in under a minute. I have basically resigned myself to having a Windows box just for printing.
I've been using Windows 8 since its release and haven't gotten used to it, despite using all sorts of third party 'reversion' programs (replacement start menu etc).
So you aren't trying to get used to it. You are basically saying you couldn't get it exactly like an older version of Windows.
Cool site, that --- it lets you download the actual data they use for their graphs. Using that one can see that:
Why not invest in this project instead of Ubuntu? Look more straightforward, XP->ReactOS than XP-> Ubuntu
Ah, Gentoo users. You are to the average slashdotter what the average slashdotter is to the rest of the world. And we love you for it.
All the windows 8 features that I refuse to adopt are objectively worse than what they replace. I witness others that have attempted to adopt them and they fumble around exactly as I predicted someone (including myself) would in such a situation.
The summary seems full of strange notions. Nothing at all is happening "the very moment" support is withdrawn; there are not legions of hackers with their fingers hovering over the "send" key just waiting for Microsoft to withdraw support. The system will be just as secure the day before the support is withdrawn as it will be the day after. Things are only called "zero day" now because it sounds cool and scary. The major vulnerabilities are well known already.
So what is the current rate of vulnerabilities being discovered or XP, and how often are security patches being sent out today to fix them? If this is already a very low rate then the removal of support from XP is not a significant event.
Windows XP is definitely a source of nostalgia. I'll miss it for that purpose alone, but I'm happy enough to run Windows 7 without any complaints. It's fortunate Win 7 will still be supported for a long time.
Desktop Windows declined by 3% over the last 12 months
3% of what?
The total percentage of XP + Win8 only declined by 0.3% over the same period, so most XP users seem to be migrating to Win8
That might be valid if the thing that it is a percentage of was static over that time period but i'm guessing its size increased too with different categories of devices as well.
Total Windows + iOS only declined by 1.4% (1.7% if you include MacOSX) so currently the leakage of users to Linux-based systems (including Android) is rather insignificant on a yearly basis, but does seem significant on longer time scales like decades or generations.
Again how can you determine that the increase in one area came purely from an increase in another? If I buy an Android tablet in addition to my existing devices Android's usage numbers increase as does its marketshare percentage, the other devices' marketshare percentage will decrease but their usage numbers won't. Percentages mean nothing on their own particularly when the market consists of different categories of devices running different operating systems.
I managed to coax Ubuntu 13.04 (32-bit) into life
I had to hack the install scripts
Windows XP will not be missed.
I think you dumped the wrong girlfriend.
when will a Windows box be able to log a default user on with a password without intervention? When will Windows boot without all the apps and documents reopened?
I must be missing something. Windows can log on a default user with a password automatically. Windows doesn't reopen my apps and docs when I reboot.
assuming that they actually ran windows update ever...
By default, Windows will allow you to install over the top of windows without touching data. it has since at least Windows 3.1. It will warn you before wiping things out.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Counting Android as Linux is like counting the Xbox as windows.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Windows can log on a default user with a password automatically.
Can you point me to a how-to?
Free Martian Whores!
Most people don't change default settings, which are set to automatic update with no user interaction. The only thing they ever see is request to restart the machine to install updates when updates require it.
More will rush to my door, for dual core HP dc7100 CMT systems, selling for $60.00 at the Seminole county Florida Library Bookstore! Loaded with Linux Mint 13... IMMUNE to the 50 MILLION Microsoft Virus!!! Runs upto 200 times FASTER than Microsoft in all the processes needed to get little pixels on the screen! But, you knew that, right?
Well they want to keep copyrights on it, despite being an OS that came out before the Iraq war, or SARS, or the first US case of Mad Cow, or Gray Davis getting recalled, or Greenspan retiring from the fed, or Hurricane Katrina, or The release of three more operating systems from Microsoft.... Let's be reasonable.
Let's be reasonable. XP is four versions old at this point and it's time to give up the source code and set the copyrights to it out to pasture.
If you are in tech, you are stuck in windows. Period. All of our industry tools are windows only.
Strange, as I work in the tech industry and I run Linux on all my machines.
I only have a Windows VM for a grand total of ONE program I must use that is still windows only: a cellular router configuration GUI.
Avoid the MS tax, always buy I.B.M. PC's (I Built-it Myself)
My point being that Ubuntu 13.04 is a Lunatic Fringe distribution for the hard-of-thinking (designed with a "slick" graphical installer and heavy eye-candy) on ancient hardware that 99.9% of users would have binned over half a decade ago.
I dare say if I'd put Slackware on, it would have been much quicker and wouldn't have required any hackery of the installation scripts. It had to be something trendy and simple, because I was installing it for my dad who has spent the last 20 years trapped in Windows-land, where he develops commercial software, and if he hasn't got a picture to point at with the mouse, he won't do it.
Stick Men
Further. Why stop there? Windows 95 is the earliest you can go whilst keeping your start button. I don't personally have a start button, but I hear it is extremely important to an operating system.
If you have Windows 3.1 you can install Calmira to get your start button
Windows Embedded Standard (2009) is the last version of WindowsXP embedded. It will be supported until 1/8/2019
So someone will still be slaving away on XP updates, if needed they can pop them over the the customer channel.
To respond to the "log a default user on with a password without intervention" Do you mean this? http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/377-log-automatically-startup.html
If patriotism is racist, is racism patriotic?
> 3% of what?
A short investigation of their website would have enabled you to know that it is 3% of all browser accesses to sites running statcounter.com tracking code. The methodology is therefore vulnerable to browser manipulation via, for example, extensions --- I'm pretty sure that if I show up at all in their stats, it is in the "other" category because my NoScript config blocks JS from that site.
> Percentages mean nothing on their own
No, they obviously have meaning on their own, although I agree that I was wrong to use them to make statements about usage. Either a constantly growing number of humans over the last year are aware of the existence of Linux and its ability to access websites with statcounter.com tracking code, or a growing number of reported-as-Linux bots are slipping through statcounter.com's bot filtration methods (it is hard to know if this possibility is significant, since the site doesn't publish, AFAICS, statistics of how many bot accesses were filtered out compared to total accesses which were compiled), or Linux users are somehow increasingly accessing the web more than other kinds of users (something I view as unlikely).
I do agree that all my statements in my original post about "users" were wrong, and I was stupid to post that before checking the site for info about the methodology used, so, yes, thanks for the correction!
Fair enough, yes percentages do have meaning on their own, what I should have said is that they don't have significant meaning on their own to draw the conclusions that you were, for that you need to also at least take into account market growth/shrinkage and market segmentation (since the devices in the market category can run multiple operating systems and some can run operating systems that others can't or - in a practical sense - don't), of course there are other niche factors (that could potentially have an impact) that you mention as well.
Why would hackers even bother with an old system? where's the challenge? Sure there will be a bunch of poor, and non computer people, but the pickin's look like they'll have little to gain, not much of a challenge, and little to brag about.
They are not spending any more money on a 12-year-old product which generates 0 revenue.
If a design flaw is discovered in my 2002 automobile that affects safety, they're going to recall it at great expense. Microsoft's bugs are design defects and should be taken care of as long as the machines that were sold with that operating system are still serviceable. The "oh but MONEY" is just thieving bullshit; how much money did they make on that defective OS, anyway?
There is absolutely no reason why hardware should last longer than its software. If they paid attention writing it in the first place, rather than shoveling "good enough, we can patch it later" crap you wouldn't have this huge botnet that's going to bite us all in the ass.
Thanks, Microsoft, you evil, greedy fuckers. Are you one of their bean counters, by the way? You sound more like an accountant than a nerd.
Free Martian Whores!
Hmm, looks like ''yes". Why isn't that option presented when you set up a new computer? I shouldn't have to google to find if a feature is missing or merely hidden.
Free Martian Whores!
The key word in your claim is "safety". Your use of Windows XP is not going to kill you. The reason car manufacturers care so much about recalling flawed components is that fatalities make for _really_ bad publicity.
Second, non-trivial software on non-trivial hardware is not perfectly secure _ever_. If you want a perfect product, you had better start shopping for a new universe. If you wanted infinite support, you should have gone with an open source product which you can support yourself (or purchase that support if you have a big enough wallet).
By purchasing and installing Windows XP you are entering into a contract with Microsoft that they will support your product for a reasonable amount of time. That time is over.
This is capitalism. If you don't like Microsoft's level of support, you are perfectly free to seek an alternative. If Microsoft has been illegally anti-competitive, feel free to bring suit.
But don't think that you as the consumer get to dictate what the company does, outside of your contract and your economic powers.
Just so you don't think I am some fan-boy, I switched to Linux years ago and have never looked back. Capitalism at work. (I switched more because of the price of non-OEM licensing. $200 for an OS on a $400 computer? No thank you.)
I'm pretty sure even if that did not have copyright they would not be obligated to give you the source code... If you wrote a great book, you are under no obligation to actually distribute it. What you are talking about is the software being non-free (libre). Copyright merely protects them from you creating and selling (modified or unmodified) copies of the software, with the exception of fair use, which is so poorly defined (legally) that it's a joke.
By purchasing and installing Windows XP you are entering into a contract with Microsoft that they will support your product for a reasonable amount of time. That time is over.
It isn't reasonable that the hardware would outlast the software - it isn't a reasonable amount of time. When only 5% has XP, then maybe that would be a reasonable time. It's a year older than my car, and if the temperature control (a digital device) goes out I can replace it. There's no way to repair Windows' defects. As to safety, you can expect almost all XP computers to be bots next year. If one person got control of all those XP computers they could take the internet down.
Almost nobody bought Windows. They bought a computer, and Windows was part of the deal. It's a shoddy product that won't last past a decade, my 2002 TV works fine. Why won't XP? Because Microsoft makes shitty products.
What Microsoft is doing is past irresponsible. It's dangerous.
Free Martian Whores!
You say:
"It isn't reasonable that the hardware would outlast the software"
Why?
Computer hardware is a physical, durable object which, if well manufactured, is limited only by capacitor and fan failures.
Software is an intangible, constantly changing abstraction which is under constant attack by humans.
Hardware does not break unless you drop it off a balcony.
Software breaks because some nerd had nothing better to do.
Which would you expect to last longer?
Moreover, keeping your hardware running costs $0.
Keeping your defunct OS running costs dozens of salaries. Windows 7 runs fine on a netbook, so it should run fine on your elderly hardware, and you are actually funding the service you desire. Capitalism.
IF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE M$ the can buy a Mac or (gasp) install GNU/Linux. If you can't stand this, you had better ask the nanny state to keep your OS up to date, because that's the only financially viable system of letting you keep using your ten year old computer without security worries or upgrading your software.
(That said, I am not totally opposed to a socialized OS, but I think social funding of Linux would be more productive than reinventing the wheel.)
Computer hardware is a physical, durable object which, if well manufactured, is limited only by capacitor and fan failures.
Moving parts wear out. Connections get corroded. Dust builds up. I've had all sorts of hardware failures in 30 years of owning computers. Hard drives, fans, CPUs, power supplies.
Software is an intangible, constantly changing abstraction which is under constant attack by humans.
It should be designed with that in mind. Good software is.
IF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE M$ the can buy a Mac or (gasp) install GNU/Linux.
Without buying an Apple it's hard to find a computer without Windows preinstalled. Yes, I can install Linux (and do) but most of the 30% of computer owners who are on XP computers can't.
Even if I have no Microsoft whatever on my network, I'm at risk from those millions of unpatched machines. I'm not Microsoft's customer, why should I pay for them to make a profit?
Free Martian Whores!
"what will happen is people..." ... well ... so ignorant that it makes me weep.
Hmm, you really think you can judge "people" by the standards and norms ( and the expectations arising from those S&N) of your tiny clique of friends?
I don't think, based on what I hear "people" say at work that "people" have a clue what the people of Western Europe, much less the rest of the world will or won't do. Your statement is just
I apologize for the harshness, because it is not your fault, but people in North America are so apart from the rest of the world that you cannot imagine how other people see the world, and that the choices others make are often very different from yours because they have completely different goals.
One thing I can guess (I say guess with purpose, just because I have lived in Europe and have a Dutch wife does not mean I can tell anyone with certainty what Europeans will do) is that most of the people in Munich will think about a Mac, but reject it because of the unrealistic pricing. Then they will look at their perfectly good computer, throw the CD in one time and if it works as planned, will install Ubuntu. If everything works nicely they will just go about their business from there. If not, they will probably buy new equipment with win7. But that is just a guess.
Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.