Microsoft Reveals Windows 10 Will Be a Free Upgrade

mpicpp was one of many to point out this bit of news about Windows 10."Microsoft just took another big step toward the release of Windows 10 and revealed it will be free for many current Windows users. The company unveiled the Windows 10 consumer preview on Wednesday, showcasing some of the new features in the latest version of the operating system that powers the vast majority of the world's desktop PCs. The developer preview has been available since Microsoft first announced Windows 10 in the fall, but it was buggy, limited in scope and very light on new features. Importantly, Windows 10 will be free for existing Windows users running versions of Windows back to Windows 7. That includes Windows 7, 8, 8.1 and Windows Phone. Microsoft specified it would only be free for the first year, indicating Windows would be software that users subscribe to, rather than buy outright. Microsoft Corporate Vice President of the Operating Systems Group Joe Belfiore showed off some of the new features in Windows 10. While Microsoft had already announced it would bring back the much-missed Start Menu, Belfiore revealed it would also have a full-screen mode that includes more of the Windows 8 Start screen. He said Windows machines would go back and forth between to two menus in a way that wouldn't confuse people. Belfiore also showed a new notification center for Windows, which puts a user's notifications in an Action Center menu that can appear along the right side, similar to how notifications work in Apple OS X. Microsoft Executive Vice President of Operating Systems Terry Myerson revealed that 1.7 million people had downloaded the Windows 10 developer preview, giving Microsoft over 800,000 individual piece of feedback. Myerson explained that Windows 10 has several main intents: the give users a mobility of experience from device to device, instill a sense of trust in users, and provide the most natural ways to interact with devices." More details are available directly from Microsoft.

Comments

Only for the first year

[Timmy D Programmer]

I think the key question is what happens after the first year? How much does it cost after year 1? If you don't pay will it brick your PC or just stop providing updates?

Re:Only for the first year

[Frobnicator]

I think the key question is what happens after the first year? How much does it cost after year 1? If you don't pay will it brick your PC or just stop providing updates?

Either way, I predict a massive revolt about 365 days after the upgrade is released.

I also predict a massive PR push by various Linux groups starting about 300 days in.

Re:Only for the first year

[MisterBuggie]

I think the key question is what happens after the first year? How much does it cost after year 1? If you don't pay will it brick your PC or just stop providing updates?

I didn't hear anything about a subscription on the stream, but the stream is buggy, so maybe I just missed it.
But what I understand is that upgrade will be free if done in the first year, like the 30€ upgrade to Windows 8 in the first few months. If you don't upgrade within the first year, you'll have to buy the new Windows.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

They may have meant that the upgrade itself would only be free if you install it in the first year.

Re:Only for the first year

[jbolden]

The updates are free forever on any device that at one point was licensed for Windows 7, or 8.1 and upgraded in the first year. What happens for devices bought with 10 is not yet announced.

Re:Only for the first year

[zlives]

windows 11

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a free upgrade if you do it within the first year. Not sure what's so difficult to understand about that, unless you're just trying to look for more excuses to complain about MS.

Re:Only for the first year

[Bomarc]

Why wait that long?
Request: Linux developers -- please provide us with a smooth migration path!
Let me get rid of my various Windows OS's.

Re:Only for the first year

[phantomfive]

Either way, I predict a massive revolt about 365 days after the upgrade is released.

I doubt it. There wasn't a massive revolt when Adobe went to subscription. Or Microsoft Office. As long as they don't completely mess it up, they will be ok.

I also predict a massive PR push by various Linux groups starting about 300 days in.

They don't have the funding to make a massive PR push.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not what it means. It means you have the choice to upgrade to 10 for free within 1 year. If you wait more than a year after release you have to pay. Anyone who got a free upgrade will continue to have a full 100% working and updated OS after the 1 year.

This is exactly how they did things with 8. I don't know why the article author is pulling BS out of his ass.

Re:Only for the first year

[dimeglio]

I also predict a massive PR push by various Linux groups starting about 300 days in.

I don't think that will be necessary. People will flock to alternatives. I think it's great for Microsoft to introduce subscription for the OS. It means many will switch and we'll see more diversity on the desktop and more developers creating applications for other systems than Windows.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

You've replaced an ambiguous word with another one which matches one interpretation of the original.

You then claim that anyone who didn't understand that the original means the same as your modified version is an idiot.

Re:Only for the first year

[pla]

Not sure what's so difficult to understand about that

Aside from TFA's exceedingly ambiguous wording, you have to admit it leads to quite a few questions.

For example, Windows occasionally shits the bed (I know, I know, call me a hater), sometimes even because of their own updates. If I need to reinstall the OS after a year because Microsoft pushed out a bad update, will I then need to buy a new copy just to get back to what I had for free the previous day? That seems to leave an awfully lot of room for intentional "accidents".

Re:Only for the first year

[clorkster]

http://blogs.windows.com/blogg...
Relevant portion:

This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no additional charge.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

OMG Its not for a year. Its free to get for a year then you have to pay to get it. Its not time bombed. I expect more from you people.

Re:Only for the first year

[AK Marc]

Nah, you'll see me do like I did with Office 2013. Screw 360. I own my Office for life. I don't pay subscription fees for software. It's mine, or I don't run it.

Re:Only for the first year

[Holi]

You could just got to Microsoft's site where it is plainly stated:
"once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no additional charge"

Though I don't know who decides the "supported lifetime of the device".

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

^this.
As for "I don't know why the article author is pulling BS out of his ass." ...because it's slashdot.

Re:Only for the first year

[sexconker]

http://blogs.windows.com/blogg...

Relevant portion:

This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no additional charge.

Define "device".
Upgrade the CPU in your old desktop and your free, lifetime license will go out the ...
In the past they had the option to call a toll-free number and simply state that it's the same device and they'd give you the reauthorization key. I've used it and it's painless. But there's no reason to believe that that option will be offered in perpetuity.

Re: Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

Correct. And a clever - if expensive - way to avoid yet another slow uptake by users. The migration graphs for Vista and 8 were (are) very embarrassing for Microsoft.

Re:Only for the first year

[Russ1642]

Remember it's only free for users of Windows 9.

Re:Only for the first year

[chmod a x mojo]

That's the thing, is the upgrade "free for the first year" meaning you don't have to pay for the upgrade license , or is it "free for the first year" meaning after a year you have to pay some kind of subscription fee.

For the time being I am leaning towards the first option since I haven't read anything yet that says MS will have a subscription for the OS ala Office 365 ( if there is official confirmation please do let me know! ).

A subscription for an OS just seems awkward, with too many hurdles to jump. I.E. how long a grace period for renewal, IF there is an auto-renewal option how hard is it to get canceled, especially for business what happens when the version you are on - and don't want to upgrade away from - is EOL'd... I still use a networkless Win98 machine due to upgrade costs to the machine it is connected to being $50K+ just to upgrade from a P2 / Win98 setup.

Then again it _is_ MS we are talking about, they would probably just charge ahead without thinking like usual.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

More importantly what happens to the data that you have on said PC, what options do you have of getting it back off once your subscription runs out?

So many unanswered questions here and so much potential for disaster, all with a "it'll be free!" bandaid stuck over the top...but as soon as that's removed, same old Microsoft. Worse still, really. At least before, the only "MIcrosoft tax" you had to pay for was the one when you bought a new PC or laptop. Now you'll be paying monthly off pre-paid or credit cards like your $300 copy of WIndows is actually just a really expensive XBOX LIve subscription.

After all of the bad press from Windows 8 you'd think they'd be doing everything they can _not_ to fuck things up with Windows 10...why would I upgrade to something that expires in a year if what I'm running currently (8.1) will be supported for longer than that? Why should I be "renting" an OS I've already been charged for on each PC purchase in the first place?

At this rate if they shoot themselves in the foot any more they won't have anything left below the knees.

Re:Only for the first year

[GNious]

If it stopped working, there could be a sudden influx of machines/devices being returned to stores.

Re:Only for the first year

[nabsltd]

I doubt it. There wasn't a massive revolt when Adobe went to subscription. Or Microsoft Office

I don't need any licensed (or even installed) Adobe software or Microsoft Office in order to play games or browse the web, but I need the OS.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

Adobe is software your company pays for, so most people don't give a shit about the pricing anymore than they do about Oracle's pricing.

Re:Only for the first year

[jtownatpunk.net]

That's a possible interpretation. Just because it's the interpretation you like doesn't mean it's the correct interpretation.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

I doubt it. There wasn't a massive revolt when Adobe went to subscription. Or Microsoft Office.

True. It does take time for people who are annoyed by such a move to respond to it and for the market to create alternatives, particularly if you're talking about an incumbent industry giant with a diverse user base like Creative Suite or MS Office. There is always some resistance immediately, but given that these subscription services quickly become more expensive for significant parts of the previous user base, it may still be more commercially beneficial to take advantage of those users and force the move to software rental as Adobe did (though Microsoft haven't so far).

That said, in both of those cases, it's quite clear that the market is creating alternatives, and that significant numbers of users are starting to defect (or simply didn't get on the subscription upgrade treadmill and are waiting for better options). For example, people doing Web work on Apple machines now have several promising graphics applications that are getting much more favourable reviews than anything from Creative Suite has for a long time, for a one-off permanent purchase costing the equivalent to just a few months of Creative Cloud subscription. The days of asking what's out there to draw UI elements or illustrations for an article, laughing amiably with the FOSS evangelist who suggests the GIMP and Inkscape, and then coughing up a thousand bucks for Photoshop/Illustrator/Fireworks are gone, and they aren't coming back.

As long as they don't completely mess it up, they will be ok.

I'm not so sure. I doubt anyone is going to come along with a single killer app in either case, but huge all-things-to-all-people suites feel a lot like yesterday's software to me, and I find it quite plausible that both Adobe and Microsoft will steadily lose market share to a hundred small but highly specialised competitors. The moment we reach the point -- and possibly we already have in some contexts -- that using Real Office Document Formats or Real Photoshop Files is no longer a killer compatibility requirement, a significant driver that keeps people on MS/Adobe has already been lost.

And just to get back on topic... I don't really see why all of the above arguments wouldn't apply to Windows as well if Microsoft do pursue some sort of rental licensing scheme where your system locks up the day you stop paying. They already lost phones and a large chunk of the server/back office market. Losing desktops as well would surely be the end of Microsoft as any kind of serious force in the IT industry, because I don't think they can afford another Vista/8 fiasco so soon. With mobile apps, web apps, native OS X apps, and all the things you can do with Linux these days, there are plenty of other ways the market could realistically move before Windows 11 arrived, and again once Microsoft has lost the critical mass of effectively Windows-only software that advantage is probably never coming back again no matter what they do.

As I've said before, if it were me I'd push hard the other way: promote Windows as the one platform where stability and true long-term support were absolutely trustworthy, so if you buy Windows or develop software to run on it you know it's still going to work five or more years later. Then sell the OS with a clearly stated support programme where you get security and compatibility fixes free as the ecosystem evolves for a certain reasonable period (maybe 2-3 years) and then you have the option to keep them going for a modest fee after that, but without ever going full rental and putting customers in a potential pay-or-it-stops position. I don't see this happening under the current management, unfortunately, as they put in place a CEO whose entire background pulls in the other direction.

Re:Only for the first year

[unixisc]

So within a few days of Windows 10 being released, I should be able to upgrade any Windows 8.x PCs that I have automatically? Same for my Lumia Ikon?

As others mentioned, I think after day 365, it'll cost something other than $0.00. Nothing to do w/ paying for it. Windows has never been bricked - just that if an OS is old enough, it won't get security updates. One thing I do wonder - how much will the full version be? At any rate, I'm not buying another Windows device until Windows 10 is out

Re:Only for the first year

[Luckyo]

The problem here is the mix of application incompatibility (they cannot provide other software you use) and actual difficulty of making an OS as usable as XP/7.

Admittedly they could compete with 8 on interface, but let's face it - those who use 8 either need some specific features in 8 or just don't know how to upgrade to 7.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

By law in many countries they have to honor a valid license. So if you upgrade say your CPU or even Video card or Motherboard. They have to by law respect the license that you are given, either through the free upgrade, or the purchase of a retail license. Otherwise they would have one huge ass antitrust lawsuit brought against them worldwide.

TL;DR:
By law they have to honor you license or they end up in deep shit!

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Still doing professional work with CS5. Still waiting to find a paying customer where this causes a problem. Still waiting for a killer feature in any more recent Creative Cloud release that makes us regret not paying Adobe more money.

Re:Only for the first year

[jeffmeden]

The Ars Technica post was a little more useful and less FUD-ridden, although I won't hold my breath til I see it directly in Microsoft product marketing materials:

Update 2: A blog post from Terry Myerson clears up what "Windows as a service" means, though the duration of "the supported lifetime of the device" is still foggy. "This is more than a one-time upgrade," writes Myerson. "Once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device—at no additional charge

Re:Only for the first year

[jtownatpunk.net]

What you should have done was quote this from the MS page:

This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no additional charge.

People will still latch onto the definition of "Windows device" and "supported lifetime of the device" but at least it's more clear than the linked article.

Re:Only for the first year

[jeffmeden]

That's not what it means. It means you have the choice to upgrade to 10 for free within 1 year. If you wait more than a year after release you have to pay. Anyone who got a free upgrade will continue to have a full 100% working and updated OS after the 1 year.

This is exactly how they did things with 8. I don't know why the article author is pulling BS out of his ass.

The Windows 8 to Windows 8.1 "free upgrade" had dubious generosity, since the user-visible part revolved around sidelining the much-maligned desktop replacement "start screen" in favor of something that slightly resembled the one in Windows 7. It was more of a "half upgrade half downgrade" that almost every user desperately wanted.

Re:Only for the first year

[BarbaraHudson]

I also predict a massive PR push by various Linux groups starting about 300 days in.

I predict a massive PR push by Apple starting in even sooner. After all, people do NOT like the idea that their computer won't work after a year.

Re:Only for the first year

[Optic7]

Reading that blog in more detail, I think I understand what they are doing. "Supported lifetime of the device" *probably* means that the license will be tied to the hardware and will not be transferable. Perhaps they will generally make licenses super-cheap, but not transferable? Or perhaps they will go subscription-only on new devices.

"IT'S A TRAP!" may be appropriate here. We will find out for sure soon enough.

Re:Only for the first year

[Lumpy]

But if you need to do a re-install.... well then you can buy a full retail price copy.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

>> you'll have to buy the new Windows.

You mean rent.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't "revolt" but I'm switching over to Apple Motion from After Effects for compositing. Motion is $50 for an eternal license and closely integrated with FCPX, which makes up for Motion not being as closely integrated with Cinema 4D. A ton of people are in "CS6 for life!" mode right now and will never upgrade to the subscription unless Adobe finds a way to make CS6 stop working. Also, I'm constantly on the lookout for anything that can replace Illustrator for exporting splines to C4D, haven't found one yet but we'll see if someone makes one before CS6 stops working.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

You evidently don't actually use Windows 8.1. The much-maligned UI is actually just the Windows 7 UI with a full-screen Start menu, which I find interrupts my workflow to exactly the same extent that the Windows 7 Start menu does, meaning minimally. I can't comment on Windows 8, which I've never used, but I find Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 indistinguishable for all practical purposes. I'm also writing this on a Macbook running OSX, which dual-boots into Linux (Fedora 20, if you're interested), and the desktop with Windows 8.1 on it dual-boots into Fedora 21, while my other desktop which I now rarely use dual-boots Vista (also much maligned, in the same way that XP was on launch, except that XP recovered its reputation thanks to an overwhelming monopoly and an internet that was only nascent at the time, whereas Vista has been damned for eternity even though 7 is effectively nothing more than Vista SP2) and Mint. 15, I think, or perhaps 16, it's a while since I used it.

The point of this tedious dribble is that the UI in Windows 8.1 is no better or worse than the others I'm using, and nor is the functionality. Admittedly, I've put Cygwin on the Windows machines, minimally, and installed gcc and clang separately from Cywgin, and I've put Macports onto the Mac and again installed gcc and clang separately from Apple's somewhat outdated versions, and I've got Code::Blocks on both the Mac and Windows, but that's a comment on app availability rather than the OS, which is basically meaningless these days. And I've only got Code::Blocks on the Windows machine for when I'm developing in Fortran; VS 2013, despite its many, many eccentricities that shorten my life on a daily basis since my day job is C++ development in a heavily Microsoft shop, is actually quite a nice IDE for small C++ projects. Certainly nicer than the likes of Code::Blocks and NetBeans and Eclipse.

Mindlessly propagating propaganda doesn't really help your cause (though I'm not totally clear what your "cause" is, except that it probably involves the phrase "M$" somewhere).

Re:Only for the first year

[Tablizer]

Linux developers -- please provide us with a smooth migration path [off Windows]

Sure, just RTFM.

  -5 Neckbeard Attitude

Re:Only for the first year

[digsbo]

I need a viable replacement for TurboTax that will handle stocks and contract work.

Re:Only for the first year

[ITRambo]

I missed some words in the stream due to video stutter. I first thought the upgrade was for one year only, then you had to pay a subscription fee that wasn't yet set. It turns out that the upgrade is likely free to Windows 7 through 8.1 users for one year and that's that. No annual fee, although some additional restrictions such as a mandatory MS account (Was really optional for 8.x, even though the OS setup steered you to sign up, in fine print you could select Local Account) are possible.

Re:Only for the first year

[phantomfive]

As I've said before, if it were me I'd push hard the other way: promote Windows as the one platform where stability and true long-term support were absolutely trustworthy, so if you buy Windows or develop software to run on it you know it's still going to work five or more years later.

That is a good idea, it's their primary benefit. Might as well push that hard.

For example, people doing Web work on Apple machines now have several promising graphics applications that are getting much more favourable reviews than anything from Creative Suite has for a long time,

Really? I'm interested. What is there?

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't worry, systemd will likely have hypervisor functionality built in, perhaps a copy of XP or W7 as well. Well, it would have that functionality until it gets remote rooted...

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

I have been using Microsoft operating systems since MS-DOS 2.0 and I'll say this right now: If they actually go through with this ridiculous subscription crap, I will drop Windows in favour of another OS. I do NOT rent the ability to use my own computer.

Unfortunately, that means my days as both a graphics artist and a gamer will be over. Way to go Nadella, you greedy sack of shit.

Re:Only for the first year

[TheCycoONE]

From the announcement (as opposed to the silly article that slashdot linked which creatively quoted a few things for hype): "We announced that a free upgrade for Windows 10 will be made available to customers running Windows 7, Windows 8.1, and Windows Phone 8.1 who upgrade in the first year after launch." I hope that clarifies things for everyone.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

What is there?

The first example that comes to mind is Sketch, which has become popular remarkably quickly in the various web development circles I'm familiar with.

Re:Only for the first year

[fxsoap]

Regardless of the push made, average people almost always, stick with what they know. Changing to Linux/Apple is a huge leap unless you provide something that is just as simple and easy for them to use/learn or is almost identical. It would require a huge time investment otherwise that most won't want to give.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

TurboTax is a web application. You can use it from any OS.

Re:Only for the first year

[cjjjer]

I also predict a massive PR push by various Linux groups starting about 300 days in.

Linux on the Desktop in 201?....

Keep the dream alive man...

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

Not the one that the one that I need (Requires the program)

Re:Only for the first year

[Darinbob]

Yes this is pretty stupid and they should be able to foresee the revolt. As in loudly advertising "Free", which is in all the headlines, only to provide a product that is distinctly not free (in either meaning).

So ya, stick with 7 or 8.1 if you have it.

Re:Only for the first year

[Darinbob]

Only simplistic versions that uses the cloud. Not so handy if you don't have broadband either. I'll use a real program any day over a dumbed down web app.

Re:Only for the first year

[cdrudge]

You don't need Windows to play games or browse the web either.

Re:Only for the first year

[BarbaraHudson]

My sister did it (Microsoft to Apple) because she wanted something that was easier to use. She hasn't looked back - now she has her iMac, iPhone, iPad, etc.

Getting her to switch to linux, even as a secondary OS, was a total failure. People do switch ...

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 10 won't be subscription based. The article does not say that, nor does anyone from Microsoft say that. The "story" posted to Slashdot was spun by an anti-MS troll to make it sound like it would.

Re:Only for the first year

[tattood]

RTFB:

We announced that a free upgrade for Windows 10 will be made available to customers running Windows 7, Windows 8.1, and Windows Phone 8.1 who upgrade in the first year after launch.*

*Hardware and software requirements apply. No additional charge. Feature availability may vary by device. Some editions excluded. More details at http://www.windows.com./

Re:Only for the first year

[Darinbob]

If Office license expires you can still do something with your computer though I presume. What happens if Windows expires?

As for the revolt, most Office users buying new copies are corporations, and corporate IT has never said no to Microsoft. Home users however tend to not upgrade yearly. So revolts from them are harder to see, they'll just stick with the latest version they have rather than upgrade.

Re: Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually there was/is. Most of adobe's dough was people rushing to buy cs6 while they can. At least that is what my customers all did

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device at no additional charge.

Actually, he wrote that in reference to "a Windows device", whatever that is.

Is that the manufacturers lifetime of the device, the lifetime of Microsoft supporting it, or the actual lifetime of "the device"?

I'm pretty sure it's one of he formers, since my computer is a "device" and it runs Windows, but it's not a "Windows device" - it's a general computing device. Also, it's been running for a lot longer than 90 days.

Chances are within 90 days from purchase (or installation, whichever is smaller) you're kicked out of that deal. I'm willing to bet money on it.

Re:Only for the first year

[DaHat]

Or... maybe, just maybe 8 isn't as bad as some claim.

Shall I go on a rant about how unusable Linux is today for many users and then accuse those who may be a little more used to the system and defend it as being "not that bad" of being shills?

Re:Only for the first year

[omibus]

From what I've seen, not if it doesn't run Excel and Outlook. Doesn't matter if you have an open office alternative, if it doesn't say Excel, Word, and Outlook you aren't getting anyway. Yes, those applications are still that entrenched.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

No, he means buy. The story posted here on Slashdot does not reflect what was stated in the article, nor by Microsoft. It is an outright lie fab and mpicpp is a troll.

Windows 10 will be a free upgrade for anyone running Windows 7/8, but the free period will only last for a year. After that, anyone who wants Windows 10 will need to buy it. It will not be subscription based.

Re:Only for the first year

[rsmith-mac]

Define "device".

"Device" has always meant the motherboard.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

He's not talking about 8 to 8.1, he's talking about 7 to 8 which, while not a free upgrade, only cost $15 for for a limited time.

Re:Only for the first year

[Darinbob]

Windows 8 wasn't free though, though it was initially offered at a very low price for those who recently purchased a new machine that had an older version of Windows pre-installed.

Re:Only for the first year

[clorkster]

That is already how windows 8/8.1 handles OEM licensing. There is no more product key sticker as the product key is integrated into the BIOS. The licensing agreement with OEM stuff has always technically been that it is tied to the specific hardware if my understanding is correct. With 8.1, this is just being more effectively enforced through technical means. It seems extremely unlikely that Microsoft will depart from that model going forward.

However, with the 8 upgrade licenses, they were product key based, because there is no control over the hardware before it reaches the user as there is with an OEM device. I don't really see how they could possibly get away from shipping a product key if they are upgrading any Windows 7+ machine. It also seems unlikely that at registration of said product key, Microsoft is going to store some sort of hardware fingerprint in a database to prevent reusage of the key at a later date on different hardware.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

You evidently don't actually use Windows 8.1. The much-maligned UI is actually just the Windows 7 UI with a full-screen Start menu, which I find interrupts my workflow to exactly the same extent that the Windows 7 Start menu does, meaning minimally. I can't comment on Windows 8, which I've never used, but I find Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 indistinguishable for all practical purposes...
Mindlessly propagating propaganda doesn't really help your cause (though I'm not totally clear what your "cause" is, except that it probably involves the phrase "M$" somewhere).

You evidently don't actually use the advanced features of the Windows 7 Start Menu. There are good reasons that the full-screen Start menu is so maligned.

Try referring to a website, help file, or app that is open on your desktop while typing in a detailed command in the search/run box of the Start Menu on a single monitor PC (i.e. laptop). It's quite the challenge in Windows 8 since that full-screen Start Menu blocks whatever is open on your desktop. Oddly enough, it's quite easy in Windows 7.

You also evidently don't use the Jump Lists feature of Windows 7's Start Menu. It's great to be able to pin frequently used files, connections, etc. to the associated apps that you have pinned to your Start Menu in Windows 7. I've yet to find the Jump List feature on any app pinned to Windows 8/8.1's Start Menu.

You can use Jump Lists from apps pinned to the Taskbar in Windows 8 but having 10+ apps pinned to your Taskbar tends to make it needlessly cluttered, especially when you have multiple non-pinned apps open at the same time. I prefer to use my Start Menu to "start" programs and my Task list to manage active "tasks". It tends to defeat the purpose of a "task" bar if you have a bunch of non-active tasks plastered all over it just so you can use Jump Lists. Crazy, right?

Last but not least, Windows 8/8.1 Start Menu has several new features that I very much wanted to like such as the Live Tiles and Tile Groups but even on those features, the blatant lack of customization ruins the potential efficiency.

For example, try creating a tile group and arranging the tiles into a single column. As far as I can tell, it can't be done. For me, it is much quicker to visually parse a single column when looking for a specific tile than it is to find said tile among 2 or more columns with minimal spacing between them.

Want to increase the space between the columns in a tile group? Too bad. Want to increase the space between two or more tile groups? Too bad. Want to make some of your non-native Windows 8 apps a "wide" tile so they match the native apps in the same tile group? Too bad.

Oddly enough, it seems like Microsoft has addressed many of these shortcomings in the Windows 10 Start Menu with a hybrid composed of Win7 and Win8 features.

Re: Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

You just reworded exactly what they said...

Re: Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

They'd probably just tell you to restore from backup.

Re:Only for the first year

[bananaquackmoo]

Not really. If you're the kind of person who builds custom computers, when you call them up just say you replaced the motherboard. If they really push (and I've never had a problem with that) then just say the previous one went bad and had to be RMA'd or replaced. They're happy to remove the old motherboard from the license and apply the license to your new one.

Re:Only for the first year

[sexconker]

Define "device".

"Device" has always meant the motherboard.

Nope.
Plenty of things from CPUs/GPUs to add-in cards will trigger the authentication check to fail.
The license never specifies what a "device" is. The closest you'll get to specific licensing language is with their server software and the distinction of CPUs by core and by socket.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

I have found this to be true as well. In fact, you don't even have to tell them anything (the service is automated). Microsoft don't care which system you run Windows on, just that you aren't running it on more systems than you are licensed for.

Re:Only for the first year

[phantomfive]

What happens if Windows expires?

No prob, build your own OS!

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

Why? You could just reinstall your original OS and then reapply the free update that you should have saved locally somewhere. Alternately, make a disk image immediately after installing the update.

Re:Only for the first year

[Pieroxy]

True. And it's not that people prefer MSO over OpenOffice, it's just that they need to be able to interact with people using Office. And opening a Word document on OpenOffice usually ends up like a big mess. Same for Powerpoint or Excel. Interchangeability is just a mess right now.

Re:Only for the first year

[Pieroxy]

Changing for Apple has the benefit of letting you use MS Office. Believe it or not, this is the main point I've seen raised over switching from Windows to Linux. For a reason.

Re:Only for the first year

[edtice1559]

Which is the reason that software companies want to sell subscriptions. It's hard to employ an army of highly paid developers if you don't know whether you have any future revenue.. If not enough people buy new versions or subscriptions, the company goes bust and then there's nobody to maintain the software you already have. You'll find a way to keep it running Dumpster diving for the necessary hardware cause the app won't run in modern operating systems. And some other creative things. All of which will be more expensive than just paying an annual subscription and/or support/maintenance fee. It's really a question of whether you want to squeeze your suppliers or be successful together in the medium to long term.

Re:Only for the first year

[Darinbob]

Most of the news reports out there stated this very ambiguously and were conjecturing that this meant that subscription would be used. This includes big sites like the BBC. But I don't see this anymore, a lot of web sites have edited themselves since the initial announcements.

So this is not a Slashdot disinformation plan, if true it is a mistake that was made by many and a very easy mistake to make given the wording in the early reports.

Re:Only for the first year

[Darinbob]

It was speculated early on, I think because of ambiguous wording. The early reports seem to have been edited.

Re:Only for the first year

[BlackPignouf]

RAW support for newer cameras might force me to abandon CS6 one day.
That sucks (for customers), and Adobe knows it.

Re:Only for the first year

[RDW]

You evidently don't actually use the advanced features of the Windows 7 Start Menu. There are good reasons that the full-screen Start menu is so maligned.

Neither is as good as the Classic Shell start menu, which works on both.

Re:Only for the first year

[Gliscameria]

The people complaining about win8 don't use keyboard shortcuts effectively.

Re: Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

All that will be taken care of by systemd.

Re:Only for the first year

[bev_tech_rob]

That was the impression I got from the article....similar to Win 8. I bought two licenses when they were $35 a pop (because they were CHEAP) and now they are priced similar to Win7 (~$100 or more depending on version).

I would have no problem with a subscription model if it is not too expensive (less than $100 / year perhaps?), but a lot of normal non-IT / tech savvy folks will balk at that no matter how cheap....

Not very many folks like on-going costs apart from car / house payments and utilities in my experience.

Re:Only for the first year

[captjc]

Unfortunately, that means my days as both a graphics artist and a gamer will be over. Way to go Nadella, you greedy sack of shit.

Don't be such a drama queen. Mac's have been associated with graphic artists and "creative types" for over 30 years. Or you could always learn to use The Gimp like everyone else.

Also, I know it hurts to hear this as an PC Master-Race Ubermench, but millions of people play games on these things called "consoles." Sure, you have to ditch the mouse and keyboard, for something called a "gamepad" but it can theoretically be done. I know your Ubermench brethren will laugh at you for leaving the Gamer Gods to join the Konsole kiddies, but I'm sure they will understand your reasons and only laugh at you behind your back.

Re:Only for the first year

[tepples]

If all you're doing are games and the web, you could use an Xbox One video game console instead of a Windows PC. If you're doing only single-player and offline multiplayer, there's no subscription.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't comment on Windows 8, which I've never used, but I find Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 indistinguishable for all practical purposes.

You seem to miss the question to your answer. If they are indistinguishable, then why upgrade? Especially if you do know Windows 8, and therefor have the idea (correct or not) that it is an OS that wasn't designed for desktop machines? For that matter, why would you buy an OS that came to life under such circumstances at all for a desktop machine? The only answer I can think of is "because you are an OS collector", which seems to be where you fit in.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

Try referring to a website, help file, or app that is open on your desktop while typing in a detailed command in the search/run box of the Start Menu on a single monitor PC

First of all, the start menu does not handle commandline stuff. Try typing in "dir /w" in there and watch it fail. Secondly, Windows 8 uses the exact same Win+R key bind for the run dialog, which is what you are supposed to use for that sort of thing. Third, copy & paste is much faster than transcribing.

You also evidently don't use the Jump Lists feature of Windows 7's Start Menu.

Windows 8 has the same jump list functionality. This right here tells me you have never even used Windows 8 and are talking out of your ass.

You can use Jump Lists from apps pinned to the Taskbar in Windows 8 but having 10+ apps pinned to your Taskbar tends to make it needlessly cluttered

No more cluttered than Windows 7 with 10+ pinned apps.

Last but not least, Windows 8/8.1 Start Menu has several new features that I very much wanted to like such as the Live Tiles and Tile Groups but even on those features, the blatant lack of customization ruins the potential efficiency.

It can be customised more than the Windows 7 start menu.

For me, it is much quicker to visually parse a single column when looking for a specific tile than it is to find said tile among 2 or more columns with minimal spacing between them

Right click taskbar -> Properties -> Navigation -> Check "Show the Apps view automatically when I go to Start."

Want to increase the space between the columns in a tile group? Too bad. Want to increase the space between two or more tile groups? Too bad. Want to make some of your non-native Windows 8 apps a "wide" tile so they match the native apps in the same tile group? Too bad.

You can't do any of those things in Windows 7. In addition, Windows 7 isn't multi-monitor ready. Want your taskbar to span all displays? Too bad.

Re:Only for the first year

[Iamthecheese]

I have no objection to a software subscription service done right. But my definition of doing it right is to keep pushing security updates, API's, and compatibility patches(i.e. non-feature updates) even for expired subscriptions. I have the strong feeling that Microsoft will stop providing ANY updates when the subscriber stops paying. Or even worse: nag screens and eliminating existing features.

To trust Microsoft not to abuse this position would be like loaning money to a heroin addict.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

While you're at it, please provide us with a desktop that isn't a mismatched inconsistent pile of shit.

Re:Only for the first year

[kuzb]

..or search. I find launching applications via search (which often matches what I'm after in 2 - 3 keystrokes) is far faster than navigating a start menu.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Which is the reason that software companies want to sell subscriptions. It's hard to employ an army of highly paid developers if you don't know whether you have any future revenue.

So maybe you should keep improving your software in ways that are actually worth more to your users. If you don't have a solid plan for doing that but you've got the point of employing an army of highly paid developers, you're doing it wrong and need new leadership.

There are literally dozens of changes that Adobe could have made to the major CS apps we use where any one of them would have justified a three-figure upgrade fee for everyone in my company who uses that app. I'm not even talking about huge changes that would have been expensive new developments; even some relatively small UI improvements to remove time-wasting frustrations might have made buying the upgrade an instant yes as a business decision.

They didn't do any of those things in several years before CC, and as far as I've seen they haven't since then either, so we wouldn't have upgraded so far. On the other hand, we would never rent essential software from anyone unless it was literally the only viable strategy to continue the related business activities at all, which in reality it never is. So in effect, Adobe have gone from a position where even one of many modest improvements would probably have earned a small business worth of upgrade fees from us sooner or later to a position where there is basically zero chance of ever getting more money from us.

You can play that game for roughly as long as the extra money you're making from other people makes up for the losses. However, as certain other big software companies have been learning in recent years, taking your user base for granted it rarely a viable long-term strategy in this industry. Sooner or later, significant people at your big customers start doing the sums, figure out you're charging them more in long-term pricing, and take steps to change that one way or another but invariably at your expense.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, you'll see me do like I did with Office 2013. Screw 360. I own my Office for life. I don't pay subscription fees for software. It's mine, or I don't run it.

You own it until the activation servers for Office 2013 are shut down. About 30 days past that, nobody will own Office 2013.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

I also predict a massive PR push by various Linux groups starting about 300 days in.

Linux failed to capitalize on the failure that was Windows Me, then the horrible Windows Vista and most recently the much maligned (if only really the UI of it) Windows 8. Face it, it doesn't matter how bad Windows is that still doesn't make Linux any good for end users.

Re:Only for the first year

[jcdr]

Define "device".

Pure speculation: maybe this part of the message was more oriented for the tablets and smartphones than for PC.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

They also got rid of jumplists. Not a *huge* thing, but it does disrupt my workflow.

Re:Only for the first year

[jez9999]

Not really. If you're the kind of person who builds custom computers, when you call them up just say you replaced the motherboard. If they really push (and I've never had a problem with that) then just say the previous one went bad and had to be RMA'd or replaced. They're happy to remove the old motherboard from the license and apply the license to your new one.

Yep. My machine has had 3 new motherboards, 4 new gfx cards, 10 new RAM modules, 2 new hard drives, a new PSU, 2 new cases (one with additional go-faster stripes upgrade), 3 new montors, 4 new mice, a new keyboard and 5 new surround sound speakers. It's still going strong with the original OS.

Re:Only for the first year

[Gavagai80]

Adobe and MS Office are things people buy. Windows comes with the computer for the vast majority of people (hidden cost), so they'll react badly to suddenly discovering they have to pay for it.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

No they didn't. You are full of shit.

Re:Only for the first year

[cheesybagel]

Depending on what you use MS Office for LibreOffice can be a viable replacement. I certainly know a lot of people who switched to it even in Windows.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

I use windows 8.1 as well. The start screen is annoying and obtuse and useless but it's not much less usable than the win7 start menu.

But that's not a problem for us. We're power users. We know what we're doing. We can turn off and uninstall the useless distracting dreck that comes pre-loaded on the start screen.

For everyone else win 8 is an abject fucking nightmare. What used to be a familiar star menu is a whole other computer-in-a-computer. A bizzare split-brained experience with this new.. Thing covering up the old and familiar when all they want to do is browse the web or launch word. I've seen users launch the calculator app and be completely unable to get out of it, left staring at a full-fucking-screen fucking /calculator/ designed for a touch interface. On their desktop computer.

And that's the real issue. The start screen isn't a replacement for the start menu. It's it's own OS that's had the start menu functions shoehorned in to it. It has it's own APIs, its own software store, it's own interface metaphors.. And it sucks. It's completely and utterly inappropriate for a business environment to boot. A whole shitload of new things nobody in the business world needs that need to be turned off and managed because who-fucking-knows what data they leak to MS servers. Who the fuck thought it was a good idea for enterprise versions of windows to ask for microsoft-cloud-appstore-onedrive-what-the-fuck-ever accounts on first boot? (Fortunately you can now bitchslap the majority of that out of existence with group policies and the rest with some easy scripts)

The underpinnings of win 8.1 are fantastic. It's fast, has support for cutting edge hardware, is stable as hell, and is somehow smaller than windows 7 (After updates. I'm not kidding. Look for yourself.)

If microsoft could decouple windows from the braindead consumer shit they try to shovel on to it they'd have no problems going in to the future.

Windows 10 is shaping to be the next win7. It looks like microsoft has finally realized they pulled a vista with win8 and they're listening to their users.

Re:Only for the first year

[AK Marc]

Does it call home once activated for re-authorization?

Re:Only for the first year

[LinuxIsGarbage]

Reading that blog in more detail, I think I understand what they are doing. "Supported lifetime of the device" *probably* means that the license will be tied to the hardware and will not be transferable. Perhaps they will generally make licenses super-cheap, but not transferable? Or perhaps they will go subscription-only on new devices.

"IT'S A TRAP!" may be appropriate here. We will find out for sure soon enough.

"super-cheap but not transferable" is something they've been doing for a long time with OEM licenses.

Re:Only for the first year

[Cederic]

I do online multiplayer. I don't pay a subscription.

I play Guild Wars 2, can I get that on xbox? I play World of Tanks, can I get that on Xbox? I play Euro Truck Simulator 2, can I get that on Xbox? I play Hexcells Infinite, can I get that on Xbox? I play Dwarf Fortress, can I get that on Xbox?

Doesn't seem to me like the Xbox is any fucking use at all for games.

Re:Only for the first year

[LinuxIsGarbage]

Better image your PC after installing Windows 10.

Re:Only for the first year

[pwizard2]

Windows 8.1 isn't too bad after I put Classic Shell on there. Everybody at work who has a Win8 computer has learned to ask for it by name whenever they get re-imaged.

Re:Only for the first year

[jrumney]

You haven't noticed the beta program going on for Microsoft Cryptlocker?

Re:Only for the first year

[SeatcheInpericulisau]

I also found the search box to be the quickest way to applications and utilities, rather than getting lost in the UI. Oh, too funny. I almost got the sense that some developers must have insisted that it be put in place. Of course, I don't know this, but I can imagine a group of developers making the search box as a short-cut early on in the development cycle, and then they insisted that it's included in production, because of it's convenience.

Re:Only for the first year

[pwizard2]

Because nobody's ever cracked phone-home activation. Most everybody has at least one "friend-of-a-friend" who can hook them up.

Re:Only for the first year

[tepples]

And there are a lot of games for Xbox 360 and Xbox One that you can't get on PC either, or their split-screen modes are cut out in order to sell multiple copies to each household instead of one copy to run on the HTPC. Where's Red Dead Redemption for PC? Or the later Halo games?

Re:Only for the first year

[tehlinux]

They want everyone using 10 and their new direction hinges on it. I will be godsmacked if the upgrade license has an expiration date.

Re:Only for the first year

[im_thatoneguy]

Or this is the exact same policy they've had for what... nearly 20 years and they want to get people onto an OS which supports their new Universal Application runtime in order to encourage adoption and by extension Microsoft App Store revenue.

Re: Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

I run small buz and very activery invest,ends through Web app. Never had a problem

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

From my own perspective, your argument is moot. Windows 8 has a significantly different UI all around compared with previous versions of windows. The problem is that it's a steep learning curve with no significant benefits(at least, in my opinion) except when you are relegated to a touch-only device. Instead you're forced to the lowest common denominator to maintain cross-platform consistency.

I also use Linux; I was one of those silly people running Gentoo back in the day(no offense to current Gentoo users, but I got tired of compile times and switched to Debian testing). Yes, the learning curve is steep as well, though if you're using KDE as I do, your desktop will function much like Windows 95 through Windows 7. But this doesn't matter because of one important fact: No one is forcing me to use Linux in order to keep an otherwise up-to-date modern operating system. Well, maybe they're trying to in this case.

You want to create a new UI? Go right ahead. You want to eliminate my option to choose something which I might find more efficient and useful? No, thank you. That is everyone's problem with Windows 8. And if I might add, it doesn't seem immediately obvious how to use Metro. You'll just find yourself accidentally moving your mouse to a corner some day and dragging out a new menu you never knew was there... Or it'll pop up when you don't want it to. Something is wrong when the first thing I have to do when I get my shiny new computer is open Explorer and begin searching for "How the fuck do I do this in Windows 8?", "How the fuck do I do that in Windows 8? Oh, I can't? Fuck you." Oh, I'm just letting off some steam. I don't like Windows 8. And yes, sometimes I do swear into Google.

I have one of my laptops running Windows 8.1 so I don't have to deal with any specialized software availability issues for its particular make. I use a start menu replacement and this makes using Windows 8 tolerable. I still find it unusually slow and unresponsive, however. I swear Windows 7 would probably fly on that thing, but I am convinced Windows 8 probably has better power management features available to it. But the slowness of modern software is a rant for another time.

Re:Only for the first year

[mattack2]

taxact? Free for federal, fairly cheap for state.. (cheaper than any of the others, since you sound definitely like you don't fit the free file on various state site criteria.)

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

If the computer has a Windows license sticker on it, then it's a Windows device. That covers most PCs.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

I still find it unusually slow and unresponsiveK

Your PC is just a piece of shit. Windows 8 has _objectively_ better performance than Windows 7. In every single benchmark or metric out there, it wins.

Re: Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

Look at all the pro-Microsoft shills crawling out of the woodwork after Redmond's big day.

Re:Only for the first year

[kbrannen]

True. And it's not that people prefer MSO over OpenOffice, it's just that they need to be able to interact with people using Office. And opening a Word document on OpenOffice usually ends up like a big mess. Same for Powerpoint or Excel. Interchangeability is just a mess right now.

Sure, interoperability is an issue for some people, but some of us do prefer MSO over OO. Yeah, I really wish we still had the menubar rather than the ribbon, but if I'm typing anything substantial, I really want MSWord because I can't find anything in OO (that's a bit of a training issue, but I really do have trouble finding options/commands in OO to the point that OO is very frustrating for me).

An even bigger issue for me is that only MSO has OneNote (or an equivalent). I don't care at all about Outlook because I use Thunderbird, and only a little about Powerpoint and Excel (my needs for these 2 tools is so limited OO works just fine). Until OO gets an equivalent to OneNote, only MSO can really meet my needs.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

What exactly will it not do?

https://turbotax.intuit.com/personal-taxes/

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

You do if you want to be able to play the good games and not some crappy indie dreck.

Re:Only for the first year

[hantms]

You evidently don't actually use Windows 8.1. The much-maligned UI is actually just the Windows 7 UI with a full-screen Start menu, which I find interrupts my workflow to exactly the same extent that the Windows 7 Start menu does, meaning minimally.

No.

Indeed I can live with the start screen. It's awkward, but I can live with it. The real disaster is elsewhere and I can't believe I still have to point this out after 2-3 years.

1. Default apps for many file formats are ridiculously dysfunctional Metro versions. This means users are cast into Full Screen Hell, showing Beelzebubs re-imagining of a PDF reader, image viewer or music app, designed for those confined in the darkest levels of hell. Escaping from these apps is actually hard. Noone can hear you scream.

2. Charms Bar on the right that pops up usually when I don't want it to. Which is always. Heh.

3. Some other bar on the left with any Metro apps that opened, usually without me wanting them to. What is that thing anyway and why is it there. Why is having two task/app switchers in a single OS ever a good idea? WTF Microsoft! W!T!F!?

4. Settings Schizophrenia. Where is that setting? Full-Screen-Hell-Mode or Control Panel? Or (gasp) BOTH? Oh My @#(&$ing GOD!

5. Installed Apps.. Where do they go? 8.0 Put everything and the kitchen sink in the start menu. 8.1. puts nothing in the start menu. Where are they? They're in a level below in the middle of a huge list of stuff. The only reasonable way to open an app is to search for it. So you better remember what it's called, Mom!

6. Search. I'm running out of expletives. It manages to open yet another full screen abomination in front of me when I'm looking for "Supplier Visit Notes 15Jan.docx", AND it starts finding stuff on the Internet.. What the hell MS!! You've messed up just about the most basic purpose of an OS user interface which is to let me store files, find them back and open them!

Anyway, you may feel less anger and pain about the above than I do but the point remains that Win 8's peculiarity (See, I can be nice too) isn't confined to having a start screen instead of a start menu. I guess I could have made that point in just a single line. ;)

Han.

Re:Only for the first year

[hantms]

Or... maybe, just maybe 8 isn't as bad as some claim.

Shall I go on a rant about how unusable Linux is today for many users and then accuse those who may be a little more used to the system and defend it as being "not that bad" of being shills?

I can deal with something being bad when it's due to a lack of time, funds, talent, resources... almost any reason. For this reason I can deal with Linux being awkward, and readily admit it's not very usable for most people. (or even for me if I'm honest.)

I cannot deal with something being bad when all of the above resources are available in abundance, yet Marketing and C-level suits think it's A-OK to throw everyone under the bus for the purpose of forcing market share for their mobile app dream.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

Where is Star Citizen, Elite Dangerous, Star Trek Online or Star Wars: The Old Republic for consoles? Oh, right. They lack the controls and are too weak to handle games like that.

Having never played them, someone gave me a copy of the Mass Effect trilogy for PS3 (which was also given to me, I would never waste money on a console). When I got in-game, I almost immediately regretted the purchase because it just has ATROCIOUS controls due to the gamepad, the framerate is set to "slideshow" and the quality of the visuals look like utter shit. They are unplayable, which is a shame because they seem like they might be cool games. I realise there is a PC version and that the game was intended, first and foremost, to be a PC game. Maybe I'll just pirate that version.

As far as I'm concerned, console games need to stay off of the PC and PC games need to stay off of consoles. In the case of console to PC ports, the games just tend to suck, full stop. In the case of PC to console ports, the consoles are ill-equipped, control-wise and performance-wise, to handle any PC game.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody is forcing you to use Linux to maintain an up-to-date, compatible and functional operating system. The problem is that we were never given the option from Microsoft to use the older-style UI which we found more efficient and which did not require a lot of research to figure out before we could resume productivity.

Re:Only for the first year

[Bent Spoke]

The amazing thing is the high frequency of the word "fucking" in the context of Win 8 discussions. Must be just a coincidence.
 

Re:Only for the first year

[Nyder]

I think the key question is what happens after the first year? How much does it cost after year 1? If you don't pay will it brick your PC or just stop providing updates?

That isn't free. But then, i never pay for MS products, so it's all free to me regardless.

Re:Only for the first year

[shutdown -p now]

the user-visible part revolved around sidelining the much-maligned desktop replacement "start screen" in favor of something that slightly resembled the one in Windows 7. I

Have you actually seen Win 8.1? What you describe is what's coming up in Win 10 only; Win 8.1 still had the new Start screen in all its glory, not in the least resembling the Start Menu of Win7.

Re:Only for the first year

[Jane Q. Public]

"Device" has always meant the motherboard.

Not only what the others said, but the main reason Intel tried putting a GUID in each CPU was pressure from Microsoft, which wanted to license per CPU.

Of course loud screams from a majority of their users nipped that scheme in the bud, but that doesn't mean MS has given up on some version of that idea.

Re:Only for the first year

[Richy_T]

Yep. Every time someone has to pay, you're presenting them with the choice to switch to a competitor.

Re:Only for the first year

[DaHat]

From my own perspective, your argument is moot

That is the key... it ultimately comes down to a perspective thing!

I happen to own a couple touch enabled devices running Windows 8.1 and from my perspective have zero problem with the UI, heck, at times it is more useful than not, even in the 8.0 timeframe without a touch device the new UI didn't matter to me as I used the start screen much other than to search for something.

On the other side, I've gone back and forth with Linux for years and each time run screaming. I have a copy of Turbo Linux Slackware from 1996 and Red Hat Linux Archives disc set from 1997 containing Red Hat 4.1 (though some where discs 4 & 5 went missing :( )... so I go back quite a ways, and while some things have improved quite a bit... I still prefer the Windows side of things... though I tend not to spend much time bashing the other side because of the horrible experiences I've had with it.

Re:Only for the first year

[savuporo]

I just designed and built a new PC with the specified lifetime of 103 years. I also sold two of them to my buddies.

Free software forever , yay microsoft !

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 8.1 is a brilliant OS beneath the hood.

But the hood is fucking awful.

(Used it since day of Windows 8 release)

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

You obviously do not play PC games. You let us know when you can run the vast majority of modern PC games on anything other than windows.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

"The point of this tedious dribble..."

"Drivel", man, "drivel"! Jeez...

Re:Only for the first year

[pinzvidz]

2 new cases (one with additional go-faster stripes upgrade)

Are they red?

Re:Only for the first year

[AmiMoJo]

That's actually how it is already. Technically if your motherboard dies you need to buy a new Windows licence, although of course nobody does.

Years ago when I worked in that industry we were told that second hand PCs needed a new Windows license by Microsoft. Yeah, a £65 Windows sticker for a £20 second hand PC, okay. To be fair we were scraping stickers off dead laptops and pasting them on to second hand desktops, but that's a separate issue.

Re:Only for the first year

[AmiMoJo]

Are they still doing different versions? If I have Windows 7 Home or whatever it is called now will I get Windows 10 Home? The one feature in Pro I miss is the ability to do backups to a network drive.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

That may be true (and is also how I read it). It does not, however, answer the question: For how long will one be able to get free upgrades *on a PC*.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

I turn off search as the first step, or set it to not get keyboard focus, because I can select the program I need from the start menu using only the keyboard, than I can by searching for it.

I am, however, not using the default "All programs", I have the start menu organized to my needs. I can't do that with search.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

For business, yes. For home, not so much.

My brother is the one installing computers for the whole neighborhood, and unless people specifically ask for Microsoft Office AND have demonstrated that they are capable of getting past the "Genuine Advantage" thing on their own, they get Open Office.

Well, I guess he would be willing to install MS Office if they bought a retail copy, but that hasn't happened yet.

Re:Only for the first year

[Shinobi]

There is a way to work around that. Create a VHD on your network drive, mount that VHD as a drive via disk manager, point backup to that drive.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

Many of the people I know, scoff at subscription licenses.

The artists I know (who use Windows), still use CS4 or CS5. Seeing that 64-bit flash is only available in the subscription version, that means nobody is willing to create anything in flash anymore since they can't be sure it works in newer versions. The Photoshop-only users however are content to keep using CS4, since that's the only 64-bit software in CS4.

If Microsoft goes "No more 32-bit application compatibility", then you will see Adobe and other subscription-only software (eg Autodesk) smile with large $'s as that will be one more upgrade cycle that they get free money from, and if it moves them to their subscription-only software, those who switch are now stuck-for-life.

But lets' be real for a minute. There are useful alternatives to Photoshop, there's even other software that can read and write to photoshop files. So most people who use Photoshop have alternatives, they just don't want them, because they're unfamiliar.

Video-editing, Flash-alternatives, currently are non-existant. While there are a handful of alternatives that do just one of these things (eg ffmpeg for compressing) there are no free NLE (non-linear-editing) systems. The best option out there is to use Blender's NLE for animation if you have to integrate all types of content, or Lightworks if you want to deal primarily with video, but don't need fullHD output. If you have a Mac you're better off just using Final Cut.

But when you're a news organization or a film production house, you're not going to use any of these Free alternatives because nobody else does. Cat and Mouse problem.

Re: Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux has come a long way. Comparing Win8 to RH4 is like comparing Modern Ubuntu w/KDE to windows 3.1

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

You can also run MS Office on Linux.

Re:Only for the first year

[MrL0G1C]

My concern is what exactly does this mean:

Devices must be connected to the internet and have Windows Update enabled.

Windows update enabled, Once? All year? A handful of checks? When, now? next year? This really needs further explanation. Since I've heard so many times about automatic updates fubaring peoples installs, I prefer to wait a while before installing updates.

Re:Only for the first year

[clorkster]

I just designed and built a new PC with the specified lifetime of 103 years. I also sold two of them to my buddies.

Free software forever , yay microsoft !

Oh boy... are you still running XP?

Re:Only for the first year

[ray-auch]

1. users (or at least us power users) can configure away

2. (Charms bar) is I think the single most annoying piece of UI design since the blink tag, or possibly ever. It's right there to annoy you every f***ing time you go for the scrollbar (particularly the *$£!%^ new Chrome ones).

Best news of win 10 ? Charms bar is gone. I scrolled happily and error free for days without noticing, before I suddenly realized it had gone - bliss. Free upgrade is good news for that reason alone - I do not want to have to go back from the previews to that stupid charms bar !

Re:Only for the first year

[tepples]

As far as I'm concerned, console games need to stay off of the PC

Only PC games are moddable in most cases, and only console games are playable with multiple gamepads on one machine in most cases. Are you trying to claim that moddable games with single-screen multiplayer, such as fighting games that allow for community-made characters, ought never to exist?

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

sheep don't complain, they just accept the buttfucking

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Agreed, though I might say it's presenting them with not merely a choice but an active encouragement to switch.

I don't see anything inherently wrong with a subscription-based model, as long as it's genuinely got something in it for the subscriber. Various big name sites now offer vast libraries of music or movies on a subscription basis, for example, and for people who enjoy a lot of variety maybe it's convenient and/or cheaper than buying permanent copies of everything.

The trouble is when you try to replace a permanent purchase with a rental model without offering some significant value in return for the ongoing charges. That's just a one-sided rip-off. Some big software firms are dangerously close to that IMHO. They try to wriggle by arguing about how expensive it would have been anyway if you'd bought the Complete Super Deluxe Edition and then every upgrade for it at the old prices, and conveniently overlook the realities that lots of their customers neither bought nor needed the all-in top-level suite before, and that a lot of their customers also didn't buy every upgrade as soon as it came out.

Re:Only for the first year

[Cederic]

Yeah, I'm still distraught that Project Gotham Racing II never reached the PC. I'd still play it now. In fact, I need to play it now - I need to learn the Nurburgring before I take a V8 Jaguar around there later this year.

I think it's good that multiple gaming styles are accommodated in the market place, I just get frustrated when people that only play games on consoles claim that it's all you could ever need.

Re:Only for the first year

[Optic7]

Actually retail licenses are supposed to be transferable as you upgrade computers, etc. OEM licenses, on the other hand like you described, are tied to the specific hardware.

Re:Only for the first year

[Optic7]

Is it integrated into the BIOS, or are they doing the traditional thing of recording the serial numbers of your CPU, hard drives, etc, and flagging any changes?

Re:Only for the first year

[Optic7]

I would call their OEM licenses up to Windows 7 relatively cheap, but not super-cheap. I meant super-cheap as in $50 or under, how Apple had been pricing OS X upgrades before they went free in the most recent versions.

"It's a trap" may actually have been premature. Let's see the details first. Maybe they are just going the same route as Apple did, but the thing is they don't have the big hardware profits that Apple does, so I don't know what their plan is.

Re:Only for the first year

[Optic7]

Perhaps you're right. It's possible that they are just offering a time-limited free version upgrade straight up, and that all other licensing policies are the same. That's an interesting theory for the reason too.

Re:Only for the first year

[Ol Olsoc]

Why wait that long? Request: Linux developers -- please provide us with a smooth migration path! Let me get rid of my various Windows OS's.

1. Download Linux Mint

2. Burn ISO.

3. Start your computer from ISO disk. You can take a test drive if you like, without installing Mint.

4. Install.

There are a few other options depending on what you install it on. W8 computers have a legacy boot bios item you have to change, older ones just run with it. As long as you have an internet connection, it will go out, find your drivers, install them, and you're on it.

Don't try to impose Windowsthink on it, though. That's been the number one issue I've found when people have problems.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

What, you can't use FreeFileSync or just manually copy stuff to the network drive? I don't get what's so complex about it that you specifically need Windows 7 Pro backup.

Re:Only for the first year

[Ol Olsoc]

I need a viable replacement for TurboTax that will handle stocks and contract work.

It's a tool. If Linux or Mac don't have the software you nee, you're stuck with a Microsoft OS. I use Mac because it has programs that aren't available on other platforms, and Linux for the rest of my computers. All that yummy Unlike OS, fits my bill.

Re:Only for the first year

[Ol Olsoc]

Only simplistic versions that uses the cloud. Not so handy if you don't have broadband either. I'll use a real program any day over a dumbed down web app.

I find it completely astounding that people have to pay for a tax program at all. It really isn't complicated.

Re:Only for the first year

[donak]

I think the point about "only the first year" can be related to two things Microsoft has done in the past:

1. A lot of netbooks were sold with "Windows 7 Starter" early in the life of Windows 7. You got limited functionality, no ability to download and all sorts of other PITA limitations. If you wanted to remove them, you paid for the "full version" of Win7 like any other "Any Time Upgrade". (My solution was to install OpenSUSE)

2. When Windows 8 first came out, I bought an upgrade disc for $58.00 or so. When I later bought a Windows 8.1 disc to install on a friends computer it was priced at $130.00.

Of course, I'm in Australia, YMMV.

I would imagine the "free upgrade" will be a download (difficult to impossible for many on limited connections) for the first year, after that you have to stump up for a disc from the shop, or buy an Activation Code to download.

Re:Only for the first year

[Ol Olsoc]

>The point of this tedious dribble is that the UI in Windows 8.1 is no better or worse than the others I'm using, and nor is the functionality.

So what you are saying is that people who don't like 8 or 8.1 are simply wrong? Hell I tried it for a year, and it was a steaming pile of crap for that entire year. Programs that had to use Metro, low level changes that required trips to the web to figure out how to implement. Integrated mail program that won't do popmail. Updates that bitch up program settings.

Managed to get my better half to quite using her computer altogether. A bit radical, but I have computing experience since teh late 70's, and my wife is a newcomer. We agree, it is awful.

So she is now slap happy running Mint, her touchscreen works a trick, and I only check on it once a month, but have only had one issue. Docky doesn't wake up from slumber. Almost daily problems with W8 and 8.1, and 1 ever with Mint.

Perhaps I am wrong, but that is hardly no better or worse, do ya think?

I use OS X for much of my work, Mint and ChromeOS which I dual boot into Linux as needed, and dual booting laptops into Mint and some flavor of Windows, I also have a desktop I play with different Linux distros on. I've completely discarded W8 for it's horribleness - not that it doesn't work, I just find it horrible. I do a little bit know my way around personal computers. Maybe I'm just wrong.

Re:Only for the first year

[Ol Olsoc]

..or search. I find launching applications via search (which often matches what I'm after in 2 - 3 keystrokes) is far faster than navigating a start menu.

psst. Some people don't like to do it that way. It is wonderful that you do.

Re: Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

How is comparing one Microsoft OS favourably to another Microsoft OS "shilling"? You are a fucking idiot.

Re: Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

You keep telling yourself that as you sit in your mother's basement, dicking around with endless configuration files to get a single piece of hardware working. In the meantime, I'll be using professional tools to get work done and playing the best games out now.

Re:Only for the first year

[Ol Olsoc]

No.

Indeed I can live with the start screen. It's awkward, but I can live with it. The real disaster is elsewhere and I can't believe I still have to point this out after 2-3 years.

You need moded up to 11!

I would add that for people who like to use desktop shortcuts, there was the insane Desktop apps only, not metro apps division. Try explaining that to someone who just found out that half of their programs they use can't be desktopped. Also trying to get them used to the idea of searching, and typing the name of the program they want? Gee, if that's what we have to do, lets eliminate the GUI, and let's get back to DOS days.

While trying to work with the one W8-8.1 computer I lived with for a year, I had to go to the internet to perform functions that I did in my sleep since forever.

And there was site aftersiteafter site where they had instructions on how to do that simple stuff. That tells ya something.

The shills are fixated on the start menu, because that was the initial complaint. The rest of the steaming pile that you noted is what really frosted my pumpkin

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

Security, performance and compatibility.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 10 is shaping to be the next win7. It looks like microsoft has finally realized they pulled a vista with win8 and they're listening to their users.

I think the turning point there was when Ballmer was ousted. Putting him in charge was the worst mistake Microsoft has ever made (yes, worse than creating MS Bob).

Re:Only for the first year

[Ol Olsoc]

Or... maybe, just maybe 8 isn't as bad as some claim.

You're right. It's much much worse

Shall I go on a rant about how unusable Linux is today for many users

Please do. I really want to hear how Linux, in all it's versions is "unusable" Do you accept the challenge?

Maybe I should tell you about my better half, who ended up refusing to use her 8.1 computer, then seamlessly adapted to Mint after no Linux expoerience whatever. As well as others I've Minted up lately.

Awaiting your proof of present day Linux being unusable.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

How could you possibly know that's what he wanted to say? "Dribble" is completely appropriate in the context that he used it in.

Go work on your vocabulary, junior.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

XP was pure garbage. A straight downgrade from 2K.
Or they know that Windows 8 + Classic Shell is superior to Windows 7.

-1, Uncomfortable Truth

Re:Only for the first year

[Darinbob]

It certainly can be. Tons of numbers to enter manually if you've got any sort of capital gains, all of which have to be printed on their own line. Some things may be easy to overlook if a program isn't reminding you. I used to do my own taxes when they were simpler, but over time it's gotten harder and the detailed IRS instructions are not straight forward flowcharts.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

No, I'm saying if someone wants to make a fighting game for the PC, then development should be focused on making it for PC so that it isn't artificially crippled by console limitations.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is the reason that software companies want to sell subscriptions. It's hard to employ an army of highly paid developers if you don't know whether you have any future revenue.

There is a simple way to ensure future revenue and that is to make the next version actually WORTH the cost. I still use Photoshop CS5 because CS6 and CC don't offer much over it.

Re:Only for the first year

[Karzz1]

Also, like most MS "warranties" of this nature, you are only entitled to a refund of the original purchase price. Which is nothing.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

The article linked to in the Slashdot "story" said absolutely nothing like that. This is nothing more than a pathetic smear campaign by a sockpuppet for Slashdot.

Re:Only for the first year

[david_thornley]

Linux is mostly an option, and there's lots of customization you can do on the interface. Windows is frequently not optional, and the UI is usually baked into the OS. Windows 8 was bad because it forced a crappy UI onto people who had to use Windows, and didn't want to pay extra for the professional version with upgrade rights to Windows 7.

Re:Only for the first year

[david_thornley]

That's how it works today. This means that competitors have a potentially huge market if they can get compatible enough and come in cheap enough to save money. If it gets to the point that an Office-alike is good enough for most work, Microsoft is in trouble.

Anybody remember the original IBM PC? It was an instant hit in business because it came from IBM, and not something like whatever Shack or a fruit-named company. IBM systems were good for business, after all. After the fully compatible "clones" came along, IBM kept selling PCs at a considerably higher price than the clones (at one time I was estimating $500 each for the 'I', the 'B', and the 'M'). This collapsed fairly fast when people started accepting the idea that they didn't need the magic initials.

No software empire is forever. They're always subject to slow erosion until they hit a certain point, after which the erosion gets a lot faster. I don't expect this to happen to MS Office in the next three years, but after that I've got no confidence.

Re:Only for the first year

[tepples]

Third, copy & paste is much faster than transcribing.

Unless the command appears in a context in which text cannot be selected for copying, such as in a MessageBox window or inside an image in a web browser.

Windows 8 has the same jump list functionality.

On the Start Screen or only in the taskbar?

Re: Only for the first year

[DaHat]

If you think I've not used Linux since then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

Re:Only for the first year

[tepples]

You could search for programs in Windows 7's Start menu, just without a full screen covering up all visual cues related to what you're working on.

Re:Only for the first year

[tepples]

In what way are fighting games for consoles "artifically crippled"? For example, how would mouse and keyboard provide an advantage over a gamepad?

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

In what way are fighting games for consoles "artifically crippled"? For example, how would mouse and keyboard provide an advantage over a gamepad?

Go try to play Jedi Academy, a 3D melee fighting game, on a gamepad. It's impossible.

Re: Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

Simple fucktard, its selling an unjustified expensibe upgrade

Re:Only for the first year

[thegarbz]

You evidently don't actually use Windows 8.1

Clearly neither do you. If you did you would realise that the full screen start menu is not the problem with Windows UI but rather the integration of all things in the system is what drives people absolutely mad. Here's a few simple things for you to try:

1. Get the current gateway for a wireless connection:
Windows 7: Click the Wireless icon, right click the network, click status, and then click details.
Windows 8: Click the wireless icon, right click the network... no status there only some shit about data usage and metering, so click view connection settings again, then select the network AGAIN... lots of stuff in there... actually very little, it only gives the really basic information like ip address and dns server. Ok drop out go back to PC settings, from there you can open the control panel and finally you're back to a windows 7 style interface. Why? Because of the half arsed coverage of the metro interface.

2. Setup a VPN. From the metro interface it's actually quite simple .... except that its simple only if you connect to a Microsoft VPN server with default settings. You want to do something even slightly different like use a pre-shared key then you can create the connection in the metro interface then drop back to the windows 7 interface to actually make the damn thing work.

3. While we're on the topic of VPNs and wireless gateways there's no way to make the metro sidebar persistent. So we've now broken all the password managers on the market which can no longer auto type. You have also lost the ability to keep the window open while you go look for the password, and now you're forced to think ahead, get the password out, copy it or sit it on the left side of the screen so that when the metro bar opens you're ready to type.

4. Speaking of metro typing when you connect a bitlocker protected device it gives you a notification and about 5 seconds to action it and type in the password. You missed it? Well just look in the tray area ... nope. Well surely it's in the metro interface ... nope. Ok open up my computer because screw the ability to use a feature like autoplay which has existed since windows 95.

5. Let's not even get started on the Metro apps. Actually let's, i'm on a roll. So you double click a picture in your explorer window, and it opens up in the picture app. Not bad. But if you are at any zoom state other than 100% you can't scroll left and right. Not with the arrow keys, not with the touch screen and the left and right arrow prompts don't appear either.

6. Still on the picture viewer if you pinch to zoom in, and then pinch to zoom out without actually letting go of the screen it closes the picture. Oh but it doesn't dump you into the picture folder, it dumps you back at My Pictures. Leave it as an exercise to the user to find out where the heck they were. It is actually easier to exit out of the app and then open the picture again.

7. On the topic of touch the system knows when I'm using the touch interface and when I have a keyboard attached. It knows this because when I click on the URL bar or unlock my computer it doesn't flash up a keyboard since it's currently attached. But it seems to not do it consistently. It works in Word it doesn't work in internet explorer where If I click this very textbox right now I will end up with 2 keyboards, one on the screen and one attached to the computer (which windows knows it's there). Way to go!

8. Finally why do I need to change my appearance settings in metro and on the windows desktop? I mean there are not a lot of settings. Can't they just pop up one window to change everything? Why is it I need to do everything twice? Why is it that PC settings is only a tiny subset along with a load of mutually exclusive crap from the standard control panel. Microsoft once prided themselves on creating one stop shops. Everything network related in the network and sharing centre, ever

Re:Only for the first year

[thegarbz]

There's a difference. Linux is difficult to use due to standard interfaces being complicated and suffering from the "designed by engineers" type experience. Every possible option under the sun is what makes Linux "unusable" to the general public.

Windows 8.1 is unusable because you're never actually quite sure how to do something, and things are not as they expect. Did you know if you drag a window to the bottom of the screen it closes it, but if you drag it to the bottom of the screen and hold for 3 seconds it closes it in a different way which affects the system differently? Did you know you can create VPNs from the network interface in metro, and then change settings under PC Settings app under metro, but you only get about 40% of the settings and if you do anything slightly crazy like prefer your connection to explicitly require encryption, then you need to go through the control panel? What about that you can personalise the metro interface using options called "Personalise" from the PC settings but that it is a different window with different options and a different target than the "Personalise" window from the Control Panel.

Windows isn't as bad as people claim. It's far worse. People complain about the start button. Well shit I actually LIKE the start button in Windows 8.1 It's the rest of the interface that is infuriating to the point where Linux actually seems more usable. At least I know if I look long enough that the setting is somewhere in one windows or somewhere in one file. I don't need to go hunting through several different interfaces to accomplish one task.

Re:Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

Reading through the list of replaced parts, I can't help but notice that you didn't ever replace your CPU, and that you bought 4 new mice.

How did you go through 4 mice on a single CPU? My last mouse lasted more than 10 years (during which I upgraded my PC 4 times and had 4 new CPUs). :P

p.s. Captcha is "baffling." HAHAHA. :D

Re: Only for the first year

[Anonymous Coward]

I share your perspective and beyond. I've used most computer GUI ever written, from xerox forward, and just about don't give a shit regarding which is on the box ... Oh, whatever, it's a GUI, so what. JFC, all the whiny baby's crying over this shit.

Re:Only for the first year

[Richy_T]

Agreed.

Re:Only for the first year

[strikethree]

The much-maligned UI is actually just the Windows 7 UI with a full-screen Start menu

Troll, lie, or astroturf? Hard to say.

Last time I looked, Windows 7 used drop shadows and gradients to indicate which window was on top or had focus and that Windows 8.x removed the drop shadow... and even worse, removed the gradient on the window borders. What this means is that if you have a series of windows haphazardly stacked on top of each other it is impossible to tell which set of controls belongs to exactly which window.

But yeah, other than all of the differences, the Windows 7 GUI and the Windows 8 GUI are exactly the same. D'oh. (I should have just modded you down but I am somewhat religiously against using mod points in a negative manner)

Re:Only for the first year

[dave420]

But it will work. Windows 10 is free if acquired in the first year of release. Is this so hard to understand?

Re: Only for the first year

[dave420]

Better performance for free is neither unjustified or expensibe.

Re:Only for the first year

[MrNiceguy_KS]

Oh, sweet Lord, yes! A few of your points in particular:

1. Default apps for many file formats are ridiculously dysfunctional Metro versions. This means users are cast into Full Screen Hell, showing Beelzebubs re-imagining of a PDF reader, image viewer or music app, designed for those confined in the darkest levels of hell. Escaping from these apps is actually hard. Noone can hear you scream.

Whoever designed the included Metro apps should be chained to a helpdesk and doomed to provide support to elderly computer users who are confused as to why their new computer doesn't work like their old one. And this is coming from someone who regularly provides support to elderly computer users who are confused as to why their new computer doesn't work like their old one. Normally I'd say it's the sort of frustration I wouldn't wish on anyone, but it's exactly what I'd wish on the Win8 UI designers.

4. Settings Schizophrenia. Where is that setting? Full-Screen-Hell-Mode or Control Panel? Or (gasp) BOTH? Oh My @#(&$ing GOD!

Holy crap, yes! The Win7, (or was it Vista?) switch to nested control panel categories was bad enough, but at least you could easily switch it to classic. But this? Two different Control Panel universes with no good way to know what is where? The really scary thing about Windows 10 is that they're supposedly considering doing away with the classic Control Panel altogether and hiding all the system settings in Metro-land.

Anyway, you may feel less anger and pain about the above than I do but the point remains that Win 8's peculiarity (See, I can be nice too) isn't confined to having a start screen instead of a start menu.

The sad thing is that there are actually some things about Win8 I actually like. I've gotten it tweaked enough that the parts I hate generally stay the Hell out of my way. But Windows 10 really, really, needs a global "Disable Metro, yes really, yes everywhere on the entire damn computer" button

Re:Only for the first year

[toddestan]

If I had to guess, it had something to do with Diablo II.

Rent seeking

[codepigeon]

indicating Windows would be software that users subscribe to, rather than buy outright

No thanks. Just like with Adobe CS, it looks like it's time to buy up some licenses before they dissapear. I have no interest in renting my software.

Re:Rent seeking

[mobby_6kl]

The summary is wrong. What they were saying is that you can upgrade for free during the first year after Win10 release. Then it works as usual, you get automatic updates etc.

Re:Rent seeking

[fahrbot-bot]

indicating Windows would be software that users subscribe to, rather than buy outright

No thanks. Just like with Adobe CS, it looks like it's time to buy up some licenses before they disappear. I have no interest in renting my software.

Renting software, especially non-essential software, is one thing, but renting the OS, without which the system won't even function, is more akin to renting ransom-ware. (good move M$, he said sarcastically)

If, on the other hand, the system will still function - at full capacity - but just w/o further updates, then I predict many, many out-of-date systems (because people are fugal) - that is, until, more complete uses of "trusted computing" take hold and routers and/or network services deny access to systems that are not fully-patched. (off in the distance, he hears RMS giggling and muttering "wait for it...")

Also, how is this subscription service suppose to work? Am I suppose to give M$ my credit card number for recurring charges? I don't think so - although I imagine that's what many Apple consumers do (I don't know).

Re:Rent seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

Technically, you already are renting most non-free software. The duration may be lifetime and only 1 payment, but you don't own the software outright. I would even say that you rent (for $0) with some of the more restrictive free licenses. Even WTFPL restricts publishing modifications with the same name.

Re:Rent seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

For what it's worth, I've actually enjoyed the switch Adobe made, after they adjusted pricing a bit. $10 a month for Photoshop has been a really great deal for me, personally.

Re:Rent seeking

[halivar]

I don't think that's an apt analogy. I agree that subing for an OS is idiocy (I thought the same back when my shop still rented HPUX for ungodly sums). But Adobe CS sub was a fantastic way of getting people like me, who want to be honest and pay for the software we need, to be able to do so without resorting to piracy. Even better, after a full year on my CS sub, they gave me a full license to the latest version that I can keep in perpetuity. I don't know if the new Creative Cloud pricing model continues that; probably not because they've dropped version numbers, but all told I am paying much less per year than I would have spent shelling out for the CS Master Collection.

Re:Rent seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple Customers don't subscript/rent any of their software from Apple, (some may pay for extra services like premium iCloud storage space or iTunes Match, but certainly not the Operating system or core software. )

Re:Rent seeking

[gstoddart]

Citation, please(*) ... TFA says quite explicitly:

Windows 10 will be free for existing Windows users running versions of the OS, going back to Windows 7. That includes Windows 7, 8, 8.1 and Windows Phone. Microsoft specified it would only be free for the first year, indicating Windows would be software that users subscribe to, rather than buy outright.

Now, TFA could be wrong too .. but it sounds like Microsoft is going for the cash grab of a subscription model for the OS.

Not sure that's going to work so well for them.

(*) Not claiming to know different, honestly have no idea.

Re:Rent seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

Sigh.

http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/01/21/the-next-generation-of-windows-windows-10/
"This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no additional charge."

The article is 100% wrong and as far as I have seen they are the ONLY ones making hints at subscriptions.

Re:Rent seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

Neither iOS or Mac OS are subscription-based. What would people be getting recurring charges from Apple for?

Re:Rent seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

The TFA quite explicitly conjectures.

Re:Rent seeking

[mobby_6kl]

Yep, and my citation is watching the stream. They did mention "windows as a service" or something like that, which is what got misinterpreted, but it was fairly clearly referring to a whole larger infrastructure with Onedrive and other cloud crap, various mobile devices tying together to provide a comprehensive "service" to the users.

Re: Rent seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

>> all told I am paying much less per year than I would have spent shelling out for the CS Master Collection

I don't think that statement is as flattering as you believe it to be; CS Master was horrendously priced.

Re:Rent seeking

[nine-times]

Renting software, especially non-essential software, is one thing, but renting the OS, without which the system won't even function, is more akin to renting ransom-ware. (good move M$, he said sarcastically)

Yeah, this is the problem I have with the idea of the OS specifically. If I'm an average consumer who doesn't know much about computers, and I buy a new Dell with a subscription version of Windows, that means I have to keep paying Microsoft every year or else my computer is effectively bricked. (assuming the computer stops functioning when the subscription runs out)

You can say, "No, the computer works fine. You can just install another OS!" And this hypothetical average-consumer-me will say, "I have no idea what you're talking about when you say "OS". All I know is that my computer doesn't work unless I pay Microsoft every year.

So at that point, the whole equation of "buying a computer" will have changed. You won't really "buy" a computer anymore. Your computer itself will be a rental with a very large down-payment.

Re:Rent seeking

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Technically, you already are renting most non-free software. The duration may be lifetime and only 1 payment, but you don't own the software outright.

In that we have copyright and what you're really buying is one copy and the right to use it? Sure.

In that you are further restricted in what you can do with that copy? Not so much, particularly since quite a few court decisions in recent years and multiple jurisdictions that have sided with the purchaser on their subsequent control of their copy even against major software companies fighting significant test cases.

Re:Rent seeking

[Luckyo]

Most people missed the small print:

"*Hardware and software requirements apply. No additional charge. Feature availability may vary by device. Some editions excluded. More details at http://www.windows.com./"

There is no information on windows.com at this time, but this small print lets them basically downgrade OS into shitty "free" version after a year, with additional subscription fee to restore full functionality. I would not be making bold claims like yours just yet - we don't know their business model yet

I would remind a lot of people here that windows division brings in a lot of revenue for Microsoft in form of infamous "windows tax" and I seriously doubt they're willing to just lose this revenue stream after investing as much as they did into it to keep it.

Re:Rent seeking

[bws111]

'Non-free' and 'more restrictive' have NOTHING to do with it. Unless it is truely public domain, ALL software is licensed only.

Re:Rent seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

for me, i preferred my adobe to be free

Re:Rent seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

Then how do they make their money? The equation has to work somehow.

Re:Rent seeking

[Lord Apathy]

No thanks. Just like with Adobe CS, it looks like it's time to buy up some licenses before they dissapear. I have no interest in renting my software.

Why not? If the license fee is cheap enough for a year, I have no problems paying for it. Personally I would prefer this method of up dating over every 3 years having to run out and pay for a fat ass new edition where things might or might not work.

And your not really renting the software, your paying for updates and support. You shit isn't going to stop working if you decide not to pay, you just don't get up dates. Eventually I expect your shit to stop working but its not like they are going to flip a swtich on your ass and turn you off.

Is this really much different than how many linux distros do their enterprise level support? The OS is free but the support you will have to pay for.

Re:Rent seeking

[DaHat]

What's it like to be such a shill?

Above I ended up replying to one of your points accusing someone of being a shill for MS, or even an automated bot... clearly though there is something wrong with you, reading the fine print, trying to find a way that maybe, just maybe someone could screw you... it's as if you are looking for a reason to be angry, rather than take the apparently clear cut statements given today and see how things work out.

Re:Rent seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

Being wrong sure won a lot of clicks though, didn't it?

Re:Rent seeking

[grahamsaa]

Also, how is this subscription service suppose to work? Am I suppose to give M$ my credit card number for recurring charges? I don't think so - although I imagine that's what many Apple consumers do (I don't know).

For the record, OSX users do not have to give Apple a credit card to receive updates. OSX updates are free and legal to install on Apple hardware. I have my fair share of gripes about Apple, but this isn't one of them. If you have their hardware and it is recent enough to run their latest software, you get it for free.

Re:Rent seeking

[eth1]

indicating Windows would be software that users subscribe to, rather than buy outright

No thanks. Just like with Adobe CS, it looks like it's time to buy up some licenses before they disappear. I have no interest in renting my software.

Renting software, especially non-essential software, is one thing, but renting the OS, without which the system won't even function, is more akin to renting ransom-ware. (good move M$, he said sarcastically)

It doesn't really make sense for MS to use a subscription model for the OS, even from their perspective. I would actually be perfectly willing to pay $20-30/yr, but the problem is, what happens when I stop paying, or some kind of problem occurs with the system? If it totally locks you out, you'd have people lining up with pitchforks and torches. If it just stops getting updates, you have a bunch of insecure Windows boxen, that would make MS look bad. You could potentially turn it into nagware, but you'd still have people just ignore it. Same with doing nothing - people would pay for the first year, then stop. So, you charge several years' worth of "subscription" up front, and then provide updates until the EOL date.

Re:Rent seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

"Rent Seeking" has a definition, and the definition has nothing to do with paying a subscription for software.

Re:Rent seeking

[Darinbob]

A lot of early news reports said the same thing, so many that I think they all copied from some primary source. On going back again later I see that most have been edited, some with annotations that edits were made after initial publication.

Going to the Microsoft blog about this it seems less ambiguous, and that it's not implying a subscription. However I wonder if the original blog was edited after first release or not? Or at least what was the first site to make the mistake which then everyone else copied.

I distinctly remember first seeing this and thinking it was very odd, then quickly checking several other sides that had popped up on social media and seeing the same ambiguity and even the same phrasing.

Re: Rent seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice opinion, how much are you selling them for?

Re:Rent seeking

[vux984]

Feature availability may vary by device. Some editions excluded. More details at http://www.windows.com./"

There is no information on windows.com at this time

Sure there is, scroll down to the bottom:

*It is our intent that most of these devices will qualify, but some hardware/software requirements apply and feature availability may vary by device. Devices must be connected to the internet and have Windows Update enabled. ISP fees may apply. Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8.1 Update required. Some editions are excluded: Windows 7 Enterprise, Windows 8/8.1 Enterprise, and Windows RT/RT 8.1. Active Software Assurance customers in volume licensing have the benefit to upgrade to Windows 10 Enterprise outside of this offer. We will be sharing more information and additional offer terms in coming months.

So "excluded editions" are enterprise versions etc; most of which are already separately covered by Software Assurance etc.

And the feature availability may vary by device? I expect that simply means if your device doesn't have a camera no 2-way skype calling, if there's no microphone no 2-way voice, and cortana won't work. If there's no touch screen... there's no touch features. Etc etc etc.

I would not be making bold claims like yours just yet - we don't know their business model yet

Claiming they are moving to a subscription model for the OS is what needs evidence here. Yes, they already have a subscription model for Onedrive, and office 365, etc and yes it wouldn't be surprise to see that expanded. But there is no evidence of that here, YET.

"free for a year" in this context is pretty clearly an upgrade window, after which if you are still running 7 and want to upgrade you will have to pay. Just as if you are still running 7 you can't get 8 for $15 or $45 or any of the other launch deals that were available.

And if you build a new PC, and want to install 10 on it, you will have to buy it in some form. That is not going to be free.

Re:Rent seeking

[Luckyo]

We have no evidence because any evidence would have to come from Microsoft, which apparently hasn't decided yet. I have outlined my specific reasoning in the last paragraph of the post.

Re:Rent seeking

[vux984]

"I would remind a lot of people here that windows division brings in a lot of revenue for Microsoft in form of infamous "windows tax" and I seriously doubt they're willing to just lose this revenue stream after investing as much as they did into it to keep it."

You mean that paragraph? How is giving away upgrades for one yeear to existing customers "giving up the revenue"?

Every single new computer from the day it launches are going to still be paying for it. All enterprise / corporate customers are still going to be paying for it.

All the free upgrade for a year does is, they hope, transition a big bunch of people with windows 7 and 8 to over to windows 10. Most of those people wouldn't have upgraded if if it wasn't free. So they aren't even giving up that much revenue by giving it away.

Everyone knows historically very few people don't buy operating system upgrades. They get the new OS when they get a new computer. Due to the computer replacement cycle slowing down as cpu and graphics advances have slowed down this would have the effect of slowing the adoption of Windows 10.

Microsoft clearly hopes to jump-start windows 10 adoption by giving it to a pile of existing users for free. Users who wouldn't have upgraded, and certainly wouldn't have paid to upgrade. And frankly, at that price, it might well work. And a year is long enough even for cautious people with windows 7 (especially) to see what the reaction is like before deciding to upgrade.

Its a pretty good move by Microsoft. Quite frankly, I've got a mix of windows 7 and 8 computers at home for example, and I'd have been happy to standardize on 8.1 but I wasn't willing to shell out several hundred for several Windows 8 pro upgrades. But I might well just take everything to windows 10 at release.

Sure, I'll be on the look out for new fine print before I make a final decision. That's just common sense. But your reading of the current situation is entirely unjustified.

Every new computer with windows 10 will be paying for windows. Every corporate / enterprise VLA is still paid. Microsoft clearly hasn't just thrown away their wholesale/retail/volume licensed windows revenue stream to chase rent.

Re:Rent seeking

[david_thornley]

Credit card numbers seem a bit unreliable for annual charges. I've had my credit cards be arbitrarily replaced because somebody apparently leaked them, and the occasional lost card.

Please no...

[Detonia]

indicating Windows would be software that users subscribe to, rather than buy outright.

I sure hope that indication is wrong.

Re:Please no...

[reikae]

I don't like it much either. On the other hand, if it meant that support was available as long as there are enough subscribers I think many people would come to like it; especially if they grandfathered (not sure I'm using the term correctly here) XP and Server 2003 into the plan...

Re:Please no...

[jbolden]

They are going in the opposite direction for home / small business. Shorter cycles and less support. More like the phone model where OS versions turnover fast and everyone is expected to be running the latest.

Re:Please no...

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering they pulled it out of their ass, I'd say it is wrong.

Free for 1 year doesn't mean they start charging after one year. It means you have the option to upgrade for free for one year after release. If you wait more than a year then you have to pay.

Whoever wrote this article has no reading comprehension skills.

Re: Please no...

[Billly Gates]

Or I am thinking EOL would mean 100% kill. You login and system says subscription expired. Whole system locked and choice is to throw it out or subscribe to a newer OS

Fun for embedded devices and scada. Lol

Re:Please no...

[nine-times]

I think you're right, and Apple has done something similar. I actually think Apple's move was very smart. By encouraging people to stay up to date with the latest version, they significantly cut the demand for legacy support, which in turn, I'm sure, cuts their support costs in general.

Microsoft can't do quite the same thing, though. While Apple has always treated software as a loss-leader to sell hardware, Microsoft has relied on Windows licensing as a pillar of their business. I suppose they can give the desktop OS away for free, indefinitely, as a loss leader to sell other associated software/services (Office 365, Windows InTune, Windows Server, Exchange, and whatever else), but I would imagine that would be a significant change in their business model.

Re:Please no...

[Luckyo]

I read the original article this is sourced from. And then I read the small print at the bottom of the article that most people missed.

The article is actually spot on if you read the small print. But it looks like it's wrong if you just read the main article.

The main article states the following:
"We announced that a free upgrade for Windows 10 will be made available to customers running Windows 7, Windows 8.1, and Windows Phone 8.1 who upgrade in the first year after launch.*

This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no additional charge."

Note the asterisk.

Now here is what it says in small print under the article:

"*Hardware and software requirements apply. No additional charge. Feature availability may vary by device. Some editions excluded. More details at http://www.windows.com./"

This basically let's them downgrade the "free version" into shitty "limited edition" and then ask for sub money for "full edition".

The issue here is that Microsoft pulls a lot of money from windows tax. I seriously doubt that they are willing to lose this money. Either we're looking for an upgrade as a desperate means to push windows app store upon people (which doesn't exist in 7, which majority of PCs are on) or this is a classic "try before you buy" scheme which downgrades the OS after a year "trial". Either way, we just don't know. Original article's claim of "no charge" promise is pretty much gutted by the "feature availability" caveat. We'll have to wait and see what they do.

Re:Please no...

[x_t0ken_407]

So mad I've no mod points for you...this should be copy/pasted in every rebuttal to the "subscription" assertion.

Re:Please no...

[Anonymous Coward]

indicating Windows would be software that users subscribe to, rather than buy outright.

I sure hope that indication is wrong.

It depends on what "subscribe" means. If it means "You keep issuing security updates as long as I'm paying $5/month, and keep your UX team the fuck away from me," I might have been amenable to a subscription to something like XP or 7. Or even 2K.

If it means "You pay us, and you eat whatever shitty adware the UX team can dream up with and you have to take the forcible UX changes every six months, or you get no security updates either, your computer is now a phone on a 24-month throwaway cycle and all your data is in the cloud..." well then, fuck that noise.

Re:Please no...

[DaHat]

Among the non-shills of us who actually are capable of independent thought... what you describe is a possibility, but probably not a likely one.

Can a phone do everything that a desktop can? Usually not, so doesn't it make sense to tailor the version of an operating system for a given device?

Microsoft has sold different editions of Windows for years, each with different or overlapping checkboxes on a feature matrix. A device running a 'Ultimate' edition will probably have different capabilities of a 'Home', and an OEM who sells you a tablet, laptop or phone is going to put a given edition on it which will give you those certain features. I'd bet good money that is what they are referring to... an idea that is far more rooted in reality than anything you've said here.

Hell, for quite some time there has been the ability to upgrade from one edition to another for a price (though I've never met someone who has done so). That upgrade is permanent... or can you point to people being automatically downgraded because they failed to pay 365 days later?

Hell, when Windows 8 first came out there was a way to get free keys for Media Center for the first year... guess what? Media Center still works here several years later, I didn't have to re-up for year 2 or 3. Odd that?

Your paranoia does not seem to be founded... or would you be willing to cite some specific examples and not paranoia (or hate) induced hypotheticals?

Re:Please no...

[paintballer1087]

"*Hardware and software requirements apply. No additional charge. Feature availability may vary by device. Some editions excluded. More details at http://www.windows.com./" This basically let's them downgrade the "free version" into shitty "limited edition" and then ask for sub money for "full edition".

Not sure how you got that interpretation from the disclaimer. This is how it reads to me:

Feature availability may vary by device

Don't expect your Windows Phone to get all of the features that your laptop has.

Some editions excluded:

The limited netbook versions of 7 (Home Basic, I believe), and Windows 8 RT can't be upgraded to Windows 10. (Just a guess, I'm not sure if RT can or can't be upgraded, or if Home Basic is excluded).

Microsoft has made some stupid mistakes in the past, but I'm a fan of their new direction, and I can't see them bricking an OS right now. They are trying to get back some of their marketshare, and taking away features really isn't the best way to do that. Take off the tin foil hat, and read through the article again, this time with a little less FUD, and it sounds like it'll just be similar to the limited time $40 Windows 8 upgrade, only this time free for a year.

Re:Please no...

[Darinbob]

They didn't pull it out their ass. This same conjecture was spread quite far before the Slashdot post appeared. However most of these earlier stories that I rechecked have been revised. I think someone got the story wrong initially, then lots of other tech sites copied and pasted some ambiguous conjecture and it spread quite far. Later it got cleared up but by then the Slashdot story was in the pipeline.

The phrasing "indicating Windows would be software that users subscribe too" appeared in quite a few articles.

Re:Please no...

[jbolden]

I suspect Microsoft is going to move towards a subscription model. So something like:

$3 / mo just windows
+$3 / mo for office
+$3 / mo for sharepoint and storage
+$4 / mo for dynamics CRM
+$2 / mo for Azure management of your cloud services
+$5 / mo to back all those services up

etc..

Re:Please no...

[nine-times]

And that's not a bad business model. As weird as it might be, I actually think, though, that they might be smart to do something like:

$0 /mo for just Windows (free)
+$3 / mo support & select business features
+$3 / mo for office
+$3 / mo for sharepoint and storage
+$4 / mo for dynamics CRM
+$2 / mo for Azure management of your cloud services
+$5 / mo to back all those services up

etc..

And an option to bundle the most common features (Business support, Email/Exchange, Cloud AD controller, MS Office, online storage and backup) for something like $20/month/user.

Re:Please no...

[Anonymous Coward]

Feature availability may vary by device because the phone isn't going to pack all the features the desktop version will have. They also won't let you upgrade to say Ultimate edition for free, that will require payment. They are going to let you upgrade to the shit version, Home, or something along those lines and charge people to upgrade to more fleshed out versions. It's not that complicated.

Re:Please no...

[jbolden]

There will be bundles. Though why make Windows (one of their best selling components) $0 in your view?

Re:Please no...

[nine-times]

For one thing, it'd just be a good enticement to get people in the door. And Windows is the only OS you pay for anymore. As I pointed out way up several levels, making it free encourages people to update to the latest version, diminishing the need for legacy support.

Sure, you get a lot of the same benefits from going with a subscription, but needing a subscription simply for your computer to work will leave a bad taste in people's mouths. I don't think I'd be willing to buy a computer for home use with the expectation of running Windows if it meant I had to have a subscription, for example. And Windows copy protection schemes have always been a pain in the butt for IT with very limited benefit to Microsoft, and no benefit to Microsoft's customers.

I think they'd earn a lot of good will at a relatively small cost if they were to offer Windows for free, and perhaps even open more of the source code, and focus more on services. I don't expect them to do it, but I actually think it would (possibly) be a smart move. They could still charge for MS Office, Windows Server, Sharepoint, Exchange, server CALs, and any number of other things.

In general, I think Microsoft has a significant problem in that their customers see their solutions as something that we're all stuck with, and Microsoft is taking advantage of having us all over a barrel. Somehow or another, I think they need to reverse that perception, or their position will continue to erode as people find ways to become un-stuck.

Re:Please no...

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't understand how you came up with your hypothesis of what the small print means.

"Feature availability may vary by device."

This seems to indicate that the features of Windows 10 will vary based on your device, e.g. your Windows Phone running 8.1 will not have the same features as a desktop when you upgrade to Windows 10.

"Some editions excluded."

This seems to indicate that some editions of previous Windows versions will not be eligible for the upgrade to 10...or perhaps there will not be a Windows 10 edition that corresponds to all previous Windows 7 and 8 editions, e.g. no Windows 10 ultimate.

Re:Please no...

[Luckyo]

You know, it's funny when a windows shill accidentally stumbles upon the problem that his masters probably told him ten times over not to ever mention, because that is one point where the battle is objectively unwinnable for pro-windows arguments.

The problem that windows 8 and now apparently 10 aren't designed for desktop but for lowest common denominator of all windows devces, which means touch optimization throwing desktop usability out of the windows (pun intended). At the same time, 7 was in fact designed for desktop, as was XP. As a result, both have a vastly superior (and vastly more popular) UI scheme that works for most users, whereas 8's does not. The fact that even hardcore pro-8 shills now advertise software like Classic Shell, which removes some of the failings of Microsoft but doesn't address the myriad of others which remain hard coded in the OS says everything that needs to be said about Microsoft's design focus for 8. When even your supporters readily concede that your UI is so terrible, it needs to be fixed by third party just to be even considered functional on desktop, you know that the battle is lost.

We're seen how well that worked in 8. While post-10 announcement PR campaign and AC shills are all over articles like this one, reality remains. 8 is an abject failure that eclipsed even pearls like Vista and Millenium Edition. There is nothing we've seen so far to suggest that 10 will actually prioritise desktop usability over compatibility with lowest common denominator. In fact, we've seen ample evidence that "lowest common denominator" is now going even further down, from large screen tablets to now phones.

This while actual PC monitors are getting cheaper and cheaper while getting bigger and bigger. While mice continue to improve in accuracy and comfort of use. The conflict is evident, and Microsoft has clearly chosen a side. 8's sales are a very good showing of why they chose the wrong side, and pig-headed armies of followers are likely one of the biggest problems that MS has today. Because said pig headed armies keep telling Microsoft that as long as they keep on forcing the round peg that is tablet, and phone based touch interface into square hole that is desktop, they will eventually succeed.

Re:Please no...

[Luckyo]

I have outlined reasons for my interpretation below the quotes you provided, specifically in the last paragraph of the post.

Re:Please no...

[Luckyo]

Key words: "seems to indicate".

It may seem to indicate anything. I have outlined the financial incentives in the last paragraph.

Re:Please no...

[DaHat]

You know, it's funny when a windows shill accidentally stumbles upon the problem that his masters probably told him ten times over not to ever mention, because that is one point where the battle is objectively unwinnable for pro-windows arguments.

You know you've lost the argument when you have to accuse the other side of being a paid shill of another group.

I'm not even bother reading the rest of your likely similarly irrelevant screed as I've better things to do with my time.

Re:Please no...

[Fallen Kell]

I think you are reading more into the small print than actually exists.

Feature availability may vary by device.

They state this because you OBVIOUSLY won't have touch interface on non-touch devices, and thus any/all touch features available in the OS will not work on that device (that is just a single example of features that will vary, large screen UI won't make sense to use on a 4 inch smart phone, phone capabilities won't work on a desktop with no phone number, picture taking won't work on a device without a camera, etc., etc., etc., the list goes on and on).

Some editions excluded.

This is explained. They exclude upgrading Enterprise editions of the software. Those editions were purchased typically as site licenses for businesses, and are excluded. You need to arrange new site license agreements (or maintain your existing ones) in order to upgrade your windows licenses (in which you will be covered by your site licenses, and not the free upgrade license anyway).

Re:Please no...

[Anonymous Coward]

"...once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device ..."

Since there's no definition ANYWHERE of what "supported lifetime" or "device" actually mean, you stupid bastards can't really claim any reliable conclusions.
MS can claim that "device" includes not only the motherboard, but also all peripherals and their then-current firmwares.
They can claim that "supported lifetime" is only 2 or 3 years, cause that's about normal for depreciating office assets.

And what does "current" mean too?

And once you've moved to 10, you can't move back now, can you?
Cause Win7, XP, 8.1 won't run Office365247 and you've already upgrade to that.

Given MS's history, if you think you're suddenly going to get an eternal free licence, you got to be smoking the crack pipe for breakfast, buddy.
It was only a press release, nothing contractually binding, and no details.

But it's great linkbait and trolling. It pulled me in too.

Re:Please no...

[Luckyo]

Paid shills? Please. I don't rate this particular flash mob anywhere near that high. Paid shills are typically decent at their job and a whole lot less obvious.

This is more of a PR effort aimed at fan base that got the shills that had their morale crushed by catastrophic failure of 8 bounce back with "well 10 is going to be awesome, and by the way, 8 is awesome too".

Re:Please no...

[dave420]

That says absolutely nothing about them downgrading *anything*. It merely states that some devices might not be compatible (and so don't get the upgrade at all), or be missing certain hardware support and therefore unable to make use of all Windows 10 features. Nowhere does that mention downgrades or time-limits. They have to have these disclaimers as otherwise someone with an edge-case piece of hardware which simply can not run Windows 10 can sue the shit out of MS for not getting Windows 10. If this confuses or surprises you, it's not a problem with MS, but with your understanding of liability and hardware requirements.

We do know - you have chosen to not know.

Windows 2000 days

[jbolden]

It is very interesting reading that comment that people are going to be on a constant upgrade path like Apple. I can see that for home / small business. For companies though they often have the right to upgrade it is the compatibility and uniformity that present the problem.

I'm wondering if Microsoft's intent is to fork home / small business away from enterprise; returning more to the strategy in the Win NT 3.51 - Windows 2000 days.

Re:Windows 2000 days

[Pope Hagbard]

Where've you been? We've been on a constant upgrade path since the first computer. MS et al are under no obligation to support old software perpetually. You're free to keep using Windows NT 4.0, but don't expect to keep it virus-free if you have it on the Internet or to support new hardware.

Re:Windows 2000 days

[jbolden]

I think you might want to reread what I wrote. No idea what you are responding to.

I am the product being sold

[Anonymous Coward]

In exchange for what? How much of my data do they want in return for this "free" product?

Viva la Microsoft!

[Anonymous Coward]

Still the best in the business.

Re:Viva la Microsoft!

[HornWumpus]

At what?

Re:Viva la Microsoft!

[Anonymous Coward]

We've been hearing doom and gloom predictions for years. People overwhelmingly prefer buying their their products making them the most successful commercial software company on the planet.

Re:Viva la Microsoft!

[Anonymous Coward]

Continuous disappointment!

"Windows would be software that users subscribe to

[sbrown7792]

Fuck. That. Noise.

No

[A Friendly Troll]

It doesn't "indicate" subscriptions.

It says pretty damn clearly that the upgrade to Windows 10 costs exactly 0 if you upgrade during the first year after it's released.

English, motherf***er. Do you speak it?

Re:No

[marcello_dl]

I speak it all right but I can't read it. So what?

Re:No

[Anonymous Coward]

This is definitely how it could be read. MS did the same thing with Windows 8, selling upgrades for $30 for the first 6 months or so and then $70-100 after that.

Re:No

[A Friendly Troll]

And now it will be free for a year, because they want people to move off Windows 7, lest it not become the new "it's good enough" XP.

Re:No

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL no, it's not. MS hasn't stated this ANYWHERE at any point in time.

It's free for 1 year. If you wait more than a year to upgrade, you have to pay.

This is exactly how it worked with Win 8 but you don't see people who got free upgrades on subscriptions now do you? No, you don't, because all this nonsense is being caused by some idiot who wrote an article but couldn't comprehend the facts in front of his face.

Re:No

[HornWumpus]

Friendly reminder:

XP wasn't good enough, it was better. Before that Windows 2000 wasn't good enough, it was better.

Windows 7 isn't good enough, it is better.

MS 'upgrades' rarely are. More like UpGreyeDD (two D's for a double dose of pimping).

Re:No

[Anonymous Coward]

To late, it already is the next XP. Win 7 machines will still be running in production environments in another 10 years, where Win 8x won't be, just like Vista

Re: No

[Anonymous Coward]

So when are you going to stop beating your wife?

See how something written in English can be unclear? English mother fucker, understand it.

Re:No

[phantomfive]

That is how several people who saw the presentation interpreted it. Watch it for yourself and see if you agree. You don't have to rely merely on Slashdot summaries.

Re:No

[Tablizer]

What, it's like the Bible and Koran: everybody interprets it differently.

Re:No

[A Friendly Troll]

I'm not a native English speaker :) Regardless of that, the quote is from "Pulp Fiction".

I'm not going to read a random article that someone pulled out of his ass, when major tech sites on the internet are maintaining actual live blogs, and Microsoft is happily streaming the event.

Don't read articles and random interpretations. There are actual quotes posted online, as well as photos of presentation slides.

Re:No

[A Friendly Troll]

There are people using XP today, because it's "good enough" and "doesn't warrant spending money on an upgrade" - especially since the upgrade is Windows 8 with its stupid Metro UI.

With the return of the Start menu and general improvements, I can easily see a lot of Windows 7/8 users upgrading. I've just had a chat with a friend who insists that Windows 7 is the best ever (which I agree with), and she said she'll be upgrading to Windows 10, because it's free. 8 was a clusterfuck that had a price tag.

Don't underestimate the value of free :)

Re:No

[A Friendly Troll]

No, absolutely not.

http://blogs.windows.com/blogg...

We announced that a free upgrade for Windows 10 will be made available to customers running Windows 7, Windows 8.1, and Windows Phone 8.1 who upgrade in the first year after launch.*

This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device â" at no additional charge.

Microsoft is perfectly clear about this.

The article is wrong, the summary is wrong, and whoever decided to post something that links to Mashable's random interpretations should be fired.

Re:No

[stedlj]

"software that users subscribe to, rather than buy outright"
Seems to say it right there!!

Re:No

[A Friendly Troll]

If I write a random article about a Windows 10 license costing eleventy bajillion dollars, and it gets posted to Slashdot, are you going to believe it?

Re:No

[wolrahnaes]

From the official Windows Blog: http://blogs.windows.com/blogg...

We announced that a free upgrade for Windows 10 will be made available to customers running Windows 7, Windows 8.1, and Windows Phone 8.1 who upgrade in the first year after launch.*

This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no additional charge.

It sounds likely that there will be some kind of a subscription offered in the future, but those who use this upgrade offer are set for the lifetime of the device.

Re:No

[Anonymous Coward]

Sadly, a lot of people here might.

Re:No

[Lumpy]

"It's free for 1 year. If you wait more than a year to upgrade, you have to pay."

Translation

It's free for 1 year. If you have to reinstall after that year because you had to replace or upgrade your hard drive or it crapped it's self because of an update, you have to pay.

Re:No

[BarbaraHudson]

So what happens when your hard drive goes? That's the "end of the lifetime of your device?"

Re:No

[cdrudge]

... Windows 10 license [costs] eleventy bajillion dollars...

Thanks for the quote I'm using with my trade magazine article...

Re:No

[Oligonicella]

Ghost it. Besides, your translation is just a manifestation of your supposition, not what will happen.

Re:No

[Rashdot]

So it means you get one year to decide if you want to upgrade for free. Any future upgrades for that device will be free.

From TFS I understood that Microsoft would be going the Google way and make us their product instead of customers, but that summary indeed seems to be wrong about that.

But I'm still not clear on their new business model. Are they going to charge for every new device, and/or for additional software?

I was wondering what company would be the first to come up with a device independent "personal assistant" because I think that's the successor of our current smartphones, tablets, televisions etc. It looks like Microsoft is first, so I guess the other giants will soon follow.

Re:No

[Anonymous Coward]

Clear as mud you mean. Define "device"? Does this mean non transferable licences tied to a hardware configuration? What happens if I upgrade my PC after a year.

Re:No

[AK Marc]

XP was good enough. It's problem was that there wasn't a good 64 bit version. But that was timing. I'm still running XP on my old 4GB-limited desktop (for the kids).Windows 2000 was "good enough" for a basic workstation. It wasn't good enough to be the first unified OS (that was XP), but good enough that most companies stopped runing Win95 alongside NT 4.0 so that you could use "user" applications along side "business" applications. NT 4.0 SP3, SP4, and SP6a were *almost* good enough, but still had poor support for unusual things. If you had a user that needed a digitizer, or "odd" scanner, you'd have quite a few issues. 2000 was initially slated to be the first combined OS. 2000 fell short, so MS threw together ME for the home to do something for the interim. XP was the first unified OS, and all others since then have been.

DOS 3.3, and 6.2 were "good enough" (for their time, they wouldn't be "good enough" today). Win 98 SE was "good enough" as was NT 4.0 SP3/4/6a, and 2000. XP was "good enough". 8.1 seems "good enough" to me so far.

Re:No

[DaHat]

How about we wait and see to know for sure? Though I guess I can jump into the wild speculations as well:

If I have the hard drive in my laptop fails...

...and I know how to replace it (discrete hard disks in laptops are starting to become uncommon), I probably already have a backup system in place to get me up and running afterwards.

... and I do not know how to fix it myself and it's no longer under warranty, then a new device may be required... but that is often the case today. Hell, the only recovery media I likely had was on the disk that failed.

... and I do not know how to fix it myself and it is under warranty, then a getting sent away for service would be required... and if it comes back with an older version of the OS... one would hope that the Windows 10 setup/upgrade process will accept a PID that was previously used to upgrade... but again, I don't think anyone outside of Redmond knows how this process will work for sure yet.

Re:No

[Billly Gates]

There are people using XP today, because it's "good enough" and "doesn't warrant spending money on an upgrade" - especially since the upgrade is Windows 8 with its stupid Metro UI.

With the return of the Start menu and general improvements, I can easily see a lot of Windows 7/8 users upgrading. I've just had a chat with a friend who insists that Windows 7 is the best ever (which I agree with), and she said she'll be upgrading to Windows 10, because it's free. 8 was a clusterfuck that had a price tag.

Don't underestimate the value of free :)

I think these XP users are dumb. No not all as some who love it reading this am thinking I am not a troll. I am not but the average non slashdotter who is the least savory with computers are scared of them. They do not know what an update is or what an OS is. It is the computer. These are the vast majority of the remaining XP users and some hospitals with cheap ass IT departments.

Those who are even just regular users know systems age after a few years and have moved on from XP many years ago.

Re:No

[Anonymous Coward]

Operating systems are more than just their user interfaces. Windows XP doesn't support USB3 or have proper support for SSDs, so it isn't better, let alone good enough.

Re:No

[Anonymous Coward]

It happened with the Free 8.0 upgrade I was given at a trade show when 8.0 was released, the upgrade was "invalid" 1 year later when I tried to do a reinstall. Even calls to support said it was only valid for install during the 1 year window.

This is microsoft, they are assholes that really do hate the users.

Re:No

[wolrahnaes]

So what happens when your hard drive goes? That's the "end of the lifetime of your device?"

No one can say for sure of course outside of Redmond, but if I had to guess I'd say it would work similarly to the existing Windows Activation schemes. A hard drive swap means basically nothing.

I had never had a reactivation required until just recently when I switched from AMD to Intel. Swapping between AMD processors and boards (Athlon X2 3800+ to Athlon 6000+ to Phenom X6 1045) didn't trigger it, nor did uncountable disk and addon board changes, but going to a Core i7 finally did it.

Re:No

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, perfectly clear, you'll get the usual three years that your phone is supported.

But for those of us using a PC, which doesn't have this "lifetime" thing, but gets upgraded part by part for years (Larger hard drive. More RAM. New motherboard. New graphics card. Larger hard drive, and so on), there it is NOT clear at all.

Re:No

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong. MS freely provides ISOs for their operating systems that anyone can download at any time. The license key is what matters and if you have upgraded for free within that year, you'll have a valid license that will work in the event you need to reinstall from the downloadable ISOs.

Re: No

[Anonymous Coward]

So when are you going to stop beating your wife?

See how something written in English can be unclear? English mother fucker, understand it.

To which I would respond "I don't beat my wife."

The question and response both look clear to me. Perhaps you should have stayed in school.

Re:No

[Anonymous Coward]

You might want to read the article to the part where it says: "Microsoft specified it would only be free for the first year, indicating Windows would be software that users subscribe to, rather than buy outright."

The linked article never said that, only the summary posted on Slashdot did. Maybe you should follow your own advice and RTFA next time.

Wha???

[Dan East]

Microsoft just took another big step toward the release of Windows 10 and revealed it will be free for many current Windows users.

Alright, it's about time...

Microsoft specified it would only be free for the first year, indicating Windows would be software that users subscribe to, rather than buy outright.

Are you kidding me? Seriously. Are you kidding me? I have half a dozen old computers running XP that are a decade old. You really expect the future model is that I would have had to pay for these machines YEARLY all this time? Is this the only payment model they have, or is that just a free-upgrade-scheme thing?

I'll stick with Windows 8.1 if that's the case.

Re:Wha???

[jbolden]

I have half a dozen old computers running XP that are a decade old.

Why do you think they would want to enable that sort of behavior?

Re:Wha???

[ArcadeMan]

So that people continue buying Microsoft whenever they feel like it instead of pushing them toward free alternatives like Linux and BSD?

Re:Wha???

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you kidding me? Seriously. Are you kidding me?

Well, someone is kidding you but it isn't Microsoft, this is a complete fabrication in the summary.

Microsoft did in fact state the exact opposite in no uncertain terms: "We announced that a free upgrade for Windows 10 will be made available to customers running Windows 7, Windows 8.1, and Windows Phone 8.1 who upgrade in the first year after launch.* This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device â" at no additional charge. "

http://blogs.windows.com/blogg...

Re:Wha???

[jbolden]

You aren't buying Microsoft for over a decade. You aren't buying additional services obviously. If customers like you go to Linux or BSD it doesn't matter much for Microsoft. If they can get 1/2 of you to buy more frequently in exchange for losing the other 1/2 that's a good trade.

Be afraid, be very afraid

[Anonymous Coward]

If you aren't paying for it, then you aren't the customer.

Re:Be afraid, be very afraid

[A Friendly Troll]

Myerson's quote from the presentation: "People care about their privacy. So do we. You are our customer, not our product."

Re:Be afraid, be very afraid

[Anonymous Coward]

...yet. Businesses where "the first one's free" often have customers who are loyal 'til death do them part.

Re:Be afraid, be very afraid

[Simulant]

If Microsoft said it then it must be true.

Re:Be afraid, be very afraid

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is all well and good, but hard to believe. I mean... if you're not paying for the software, how exactly *will* Microsoft make its money on future versions of Windows? Are they just praying that the attach rate for Office is 100%?

Re:Be afraid, be very afraid

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe they should get out of the search and services business if they really believe that.

Re:Be afraid, be very afraid

[A Friendly Troll]

Easily. You can't install Windows on a new computer without buying it. You only have a free upgrade for a year after the release; after that, you pay for the upgrade.

The customer-product thing was kind of a jab at Google, I think.

Re:Be afraid, be very afraid

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean like Linux?

Re:Be afraid, be very afraid

[Anonymous Coward]

They're doing more than say it, they're betting the business on it. That's become their Unique Selling Point, the thing that distinguishes them from Google, and one of the big reasons why people continue to pay for MS software.

I think this announcement is about boosting sales of current versions of Windows (8 and 8.1), by winning over people who may have intended to hold out for Windows 10 to go ahead and buy now.

Re:Be afraid, be very afraid

[w_dragon]

They're upgrading existing installs - you're already a customer to take advantage of this. Besides that they're probably just trying to drive up their pre-SP1 numbers to convince some of their corporate customers to upgrade sooner. They're also upgrading machines that would be pretty unlikely to be upgraded otherwise.

Re:Be afraid, be very afraid

[hackertourist]

Hardly unique, because Apple claims the same thing.

Re:Be afraid, be very afraid

[Anonymous Coward]

There's no business behind it.

Re:Be afraid, be very afraid

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhh, yes there are. Most of the development work done on Linux and the various components making up a full Linux-based OS are funded by large corporations.

And just when I thought my day couldn't get better

[puzzled_decoy]

I find out Microsoft is busily putting nails in its coffin!

enterprise will need some kind of offline mode

[Anonymous Coward]

enterprise will need some kind of offline mode for very locked down areas / areas with limited internet.

Free for home use only? With PRO / enterprise have a cost to it?

Re:enterprise will need some kind of offline mode

[Immerman]

Enterprise versions usually work differently anyway. For example the enterprise edition of XP doesn't require any sort of activation - install and go, change hardware to your hearts content, it just works (well, aside from driver issues). Like all operating systems used to do. Presumably 7 and 8 work the same way - if you've got a single customer buying and managing thousands of licenses you don't want to make them dick around with activating them individually. I suspect 10 will be basically the same, except for the automatically scheduled license audit if you fail to pay for your subscription on time.

Re:enterprise will need some kind of offline mode

[Anonymous Coward]

You're assumption is wrong, I'm afraid. The corporate version of XP worked like you said. However, with Windows Vista and beyond, they changed the licencing to where you had to choose from single activation licences that you burned through like toilet paper if you used imaging software or run initially buggy activation servers that had some pretty severe limitations on complex company networks. This is one of the major reasons why there was so much push-back from corporate IT groups. They changed the licencing from a simple solution to a Byzantine nightmare.

Re:enterprise will need some kind of offline mode

[jeffmeden]

Enterprise versions usually work differently anyway. For example the enterprise edition of XP doesn't require any sort of activation - install and go, change hardware to your hearts content, it just works (well, aside from driver issues). Like all operating systems used to do. Presumably 7 and 8 work the same way - if you've got a single customer buying and managing thousands of licenses you don't want to make them dick around with activating them individually. I suspect 10 will be basically the same, except for the automatically scheduled license audit if you fail to pay for your subscription on time.

To say that it "just works", ignoring the complexity of running a KMS (and juggling VLKs), is a bit disingenuous. 7, 8, and presumably 10 do indeed *all* need activation of some sort regardless of flavor.

Re:enterprise will need some kind of offline mode

[Penguinisto]

Presumably 7 and 8 work the same way - if you've got a single customer buying and managing thousands of licenses you don't want to make them dick around with activating them individually. I suspect 10 will be basically the same, except for the automatically scheduled license audit if you fail to pay for your subscription on time.

Not exactly, and the reason why can be summed up in three words: Key Management Server.

Willing to bet that a KMS box will soon become required in your corporate network if you want to run 10.

Re:enterprise will need some kind of offline mode

[mlts]

After XP, the enterprise version of Windows, assuming a KMS structure, will just bounce another activation from the key server if there are so many hardware changes that it feels like it needs to reactivate. These activations are not permanent -- at most 180 days.

For virtual machines, with Windows Server 2012 or newer, if they sit on Hyper-V, they will automatically re-activate and stay activated for seven days.

I think Windows 10 will be the same. Toss the master KMS key on a machine or VM, use a generic KMS client key and set its activation either by DNS or slmgr /skms, then a slmgr /ato... and forget about it.

Re:enterprise will need some kind of offline mode

[Immerman]

They went that route huh? That's a damned shame, certainly wasn't the case with XP. Guess I got out at a good time.

Re:enterprise will need some kind of offline mode

[Anonymous Coward]

"You are assumption is wrong."

Or another interpretation

[sitkill]

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets...
"Once a device is upgraded to Windows 10, we'll be keeping it current for the supported lifetime of the device," said Terry Myerson, executive vice president of the Operating Systems Group.
Sounds like it could be either.

Re:Or another interpretation

[Dan East]

Mashable has misinterpreted the "Free upgrade within a year".
More info from ars technica:

Microsoft has just announced the first pricing information for Windows 10 at its preview event today. The biggest news is that the new OS will be completely free for current Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 users for its first year of availability—after that time period has expired, OS upgrades will presumably need to be paid for as they are currently (though Microsoft was less than clear on this point, it made no mention of a paid, Office 365-style subscription for Windows upgrades). The Windows 10 upgrade for Windows Phone 8.1 users will also be free.

Re:Or another interpretation

[Dogers]

Where is this? I can't find it on the couple of Ars articles and none of the other sites have said such a thing..

Re:Or another interpretation

[Anonymous Coward]

http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/01/21/the-next-generation-of-windows-windows-10/

"This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no additional charge. "

Re:Or another interpretation

[Dogers]

Hmm, it's a (admittedly small) jump to go from that to subscriptions though..

They have wanted to do it for ages now :(

Re:Or another interpretation

[Dogers]

Found that quote, but also found this from the Q&A bit afterwards:
http://live.arstechnica.com/wi...

"We haven't decided yet."
by Peter Bright 19:23

"What will happen after the first year of free updates for W7/W8?"
by Peter Bright 19:22

Re:Or another interpretation

[Anonymous Coward]

Who determines the "supported lifetime" of the device?
MS: "We support Windows 10, just not on your device (anymore)."

Re:Or another interpretation

[Anonymous Coward]

It probably means that they will continue to give away Windows for free after that one year period.

See? I can maket baseless assumptions too.

It will be free, only not free.

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, I see.

Re:It will be free, only not free.

[pesho]

That's what is known as "get in jail free card".

Windows can record and tie to you

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows records key strokes in the preview, now tied right to you via your Credit Card. Sounds great!

Subscription service eh?

[cultiv8]

> indicating Windows would be software that users subscribe to

Jesus christ whatever happened to buying software and then owning it?

Re:Subscription service eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

people still on windows xp and giving no more money to microsoft (or anybody else).

Re:Subscription service eh?

[rockabilly]

Go back about four iterations of the EULA. No one has owned their Windows operating system in quite some time.

Re:Subscription service eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

That concept went down the drain as more people expected companies to maintain their software indefinitely, and across various operating systems, and without ever introducing new features (file formats, etc) in a way that breaks compatibility with prior version. Ever.

Plus, lots of consumers complained about software being prohibitively expensive, and used that as justification for piracy. Hell, it's what I did. I used to pirate Adobe's entire CS line because I knew there was no way in hell I could drop several k legitimately on it. Even just hundreds for one piece of it was too much.

Two problems with a common solution. Kind of makes sense.

Re:Subscription service eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

The article summary is wrong. It's a free upgrade, if you choose to take it in the first year. If you do choose to take it, then it's yours forever. It's not a subscription.

Re:Subscription service eh?

[Billly Gates]

Calm down folks.

My boss watched the whole thing. He told me subscriptions are for service add ons like Onedrive, Security essentials, domain and azure support for small business etc.

So they are freebies for 1 year but to keep using them you need to subscribe. So it stays free if you do not care about these or your Onedrive is still there at 1 TB if you have an office 365 subscription.

This makes sense. Cheap bastards like us wont pay so we win. Corporations love renting software contrary to opinion here as accounting tricks to raise the share price need to keep spikes on expenses down. Remember it is by the quarter for the enterprise guys so renting it out is more expensive it will still give the accounts and the CEO his raise by having his ratios match Wall Street expectations.

This makes sense too as business users are willing to pay for support too and do not want to be data mined and will not buy crap from the appstore either.

Tech needs more such new companies

[nikkipolya]

Google and Android are now getting old. And so are Apple and its iPhone's and Mac's. It's about time we see newer companies like Microsoft, Xiaomi etc. come up with amazing new products. Although I do agree that it will be hard for a new and small company like Microsoft to break-in into big markets, but so were Google and Apple many years ago. I wish companies like Microsoft, Xiaomi all the best.

Re:Tech needs more such new companies

[CastrTroy]

I realize you're trying to be funny, but I think that MS actually avoided some of the pitfalls that Android and iOS fell into because they entered the phone/mobile market so early. iOS and Android both have decided that only 1 app will be on the screen. Which is fine for a 4 inch phone, but for 10 inch tablets, it's really nice to be able to be able to have 2 apps (or even more) on the screen at the same time. Android has a ton of deprecated APIs because they realized that they weren't doing stuff the right way the first few versions. Microsoft's app development environment is much more cohesive and doesn't require jumping through hoops like a lot of stuff on Android. Not that they have full windows running on tablets (some as cheap as $100), I wonder if it won't be too long before people drop Android. Having an operating system with the ability to display a classic windowed UI opens a lot of possibilities. Android is fine if you just want to watch a movie or read a book, but Windows is a lot more productive when you're trying to get actual work done.

Re:Tech needs more such new companies

[Anonymous Coward]

How can you say "Newer companies like Microsoft"? Are you ten years old?

Funny troll is not funny.

Re:Tech needs more such new companies

[Isaac-Lew]

Both Samsung and LG have Android devices that support multi-window. I'm sure other manufacturers support it as well.

Re:Tech needs more such new companies

[CastrTroy]

Yeah, but since it's not baked into the Android OS, it doesn't work with all the apps. It actually only works with a small subset of apps that are modified to work within the Windowed interface. So you can do things like watch a video while browsing the web, but you can't play Minecraft on half the screen while playing Candy Crush on the other half.

Not another McAfee...

[danbob999]

McAfee free for 30 days. Windows 10 one year. What a hell it will be to buy a Dell laptop next year.

Pah!

[Anonymous Coward]

The company unveiled the Windows 10 consumer preview on Wednesday, showcasing some of the new features in the latest version of the operating system that powers the vast majority of the world's desktop PCs. The developer preview has been available since Microsoft first announced Windows 10 in the fall, but it was buggy, limited in scope and very light on new features.

What? That is not true at all. As of writing this, Windows 10 Consumer Preview has not been released. The Technical Preview was released last year, and it hardly was "buggy, limited in scope and very light on new features". It worked just fine and introduced great amount of new functionality.

free upgrade

[frovingslosh]

Yup. For Windows 7 users it doesn't look like it will be free or an upgrade. Typical Microsoft.

Re:free upgrade

[Anonymous Coward]

Lol and how did you come to that conclusion? MS said it's free for anyone running 7, 8 or 8.1.

Re:free upgrade

[Anonymous Coward]

For Windows 7 users

Implying that this offer is different for Windows 8/8.1 users?

Re:free upgrade

[frovingslosh]

Implying that if I have a bag of groceries and someone offers to replace it free with a bag of garbage, maybe I shouldn't take them up on the deal.

Re:free upgrade

[Anonymous Coward]

from blogs.windows.com

Today was a monumental day for us on the Windows team because we shared our desire to redefine the relationship we have with you – our customers. We announced that a free upgrade for Windows 10 will be made available to customers running Windows 7, Windows 8.1, and Windows Phone 8.1

It is free for Win 7 users. It is up to you to determine if it is a value upgrade, but it is a version number upgrade.

Re:free upgrade

[Anonymous Coward]

So if Windows 7 is a bag of groceries, and Windows 10 is a bag of garbage, what is Windows 8/8.1?

Re:free upgrade

[dave420]

Apart from it being a free upgrade for Windows 7 users, you are entirely right! Rabble rabble rabble!

seriously guys?

[Anonymous Coward]

All this riff raff because no one here seems to grasp reading comprehension.

"Free for one year" doesn't mean subscription. It means you can upgrade for free for one year. If you wait one year and one day, then you have to pay. Not "you upgraded for free but after a year we charge you!"

Seriously. Win 8 worked the same way. Enough with the zomg m$ is evil lolz bullsh**.

Re:seriously guys?

[Anonymous Coward]

What do you expect? It's Slashdot.

Re:seriously guys?

[Hognoxious]

One year starting from when?

If they mean "within one year of event X" then there's a perfectly clear phrase for that. Why not use it?

im guessing the iterations were something similar

[nimbius]

Windows 3.11: Better than dos!
Windows 95: now 32 bit!!
Windows 98: uh...3 more than 95!
Windows ME: grinds cats into freezer meat!
Windows XP: We've been told you dont want or like having cats ground into freezer meat...so this one doesnt do that. also we're doing letters now for real instead of numbers. Dont question it..
Windows Vista: Reboot simulator included!
Windows 7: ok so lets just do numbers again. 7 is less than 95, plus 3.11 minus the square root of 2000 is....eh....we changed the start button for you
Windows 8:: Hello there youths! we're told you like touched screens! Also we have an app store now and that has always been there. check out the full-screen start menu there now isnt that nifty?
Windows 9:: Maadamme Romani threatened to unravel my lifeweave if we ever used 9. seriously. its cursed. also all our code would mistake it for 95 or 98.
Windows 10: We gave you back the start button, but also included a mini start screen in it as a big fuck you for not accepting the start screen. Also its free...because uh...Ubunt...er...apple is still our competitor...yeah.

Free upgrade for one year

[dm513]

From what i've read on other sites...free for a year means...that they will offer the upgrade free for just one year...If you want to update to Win 10 later...you'll have to pay...I've seen nothing to indicate that means Windows is going subscription.

Re:Free upgrade for one year

[ihtoit]

FTFS:

"Microsoft specified it would only be free for the first year, indicating Windows would be software that users subscribe to, rather than buy outright."

Re:Free upgrade for one year

[bws111]

Yes, some idiot writer interpreted their 'free upgrade for one year' as 'indicating subscriptions'. That does not, in fact, mean that Windows will be by subscription. Nowhere does Microsoft say (or indicate) it will be by subscription.

Note that the 'free upgrade for one year' is the same thing they did with Windows 8, which is NOT subscription.

Re:Free upgrade for one year

[Straif]

The Mashable writer seems to be the ONLY original source writer who interpreted "Free for 1 year" as subscription based. Every other reputable site, including Microsoft's own blog of the event, defines free for 1 year just the same way the gp does, if you upgrade in the first year it's free, after that you have to pay an upgrade price.

Re:Free upgrade for one year

[SuiteSisterMary]

Which can be rewritten as 'Microsoft specified it would only be free for the first year, which I interpret to mean that there will then be a yearly fee.'

The other, more logical, interpretation is 'After a year, even if running windows 7, 8 or 8.1, you'll need to purchase an upgrade at standard retail.'

Re:Free upgrade for one year

[ihtoit]

yes, I see that now, having read from source (the Windows blog).

OEM?

[jdkc4d]

They said the upgrade would be free for a year? Or the full version of the OS will be free for the first year? I am really just curious what the OEM price will be. Eventually I need to rebuild my PC, and I don't obviously want to play the upgrade game. I am also curious, as many OEM's bundle Windows and that bundle comes at a particular price point. Perhaps the cost of a computer from the big Mfgs will go down with the cost of windows. Time will tell I suppose.

Re:OEM?

[CastrTroy]

I upgraded my laptop to Windows 8 when it came out because they had a special price of $39. If they can sell windows at that price to the end user, I could see them selling a lot more copies. I'm looking into getting a new desktop PC, and it's a choice between settle for some HP/Dell/Whatever machine that doesn't quite meet my wants, but get it because windows is included for free, or build my own machine exactly the way I want it, and run Linux. The reason I don't want to run Windows on the PC I build myself is because I find that $100 for the OS on a $500 computer to be a little bit much to ask. If the cost of the OS was lower for end users, I could see a lot of people getting it, even if they are only running it as a second OS.

Re:OEM?

[nikkipolya]

For $39 I would rather buy a Chromecast dongle. It's so much more fun to watch youtube and stuff on the bog screen.

Re:OEM?

[nikkipolya]

*big

Re:OEM?

[ArcadeMan]

A Chromecast dongle can't run Windows games.

Re:OEM?

[ArcadeMan]

I'm still using Windows XP on my low-cost gaming PC for the same reason. I bought a CPU and a GPU for less than a Windows 7 license. If Windows 10 costs around 40$, I'll have to upgrade but more than that and I just won't upgrade at all.

Re:OEM?

[nikkipolya]

I usually play Temple Run, Ninjump, Candy Crush. With Chromecast the entire family can join the fun.

Re:OEM?

[CastrTroy]

For $149 you could buy an Intel Compute Stick, and it would run windows games. Some of them anyway. It wouldn't run the latest high definition graphics-fest games, but since it run standard Windows, there's a lot of games it would support. Give it a few more years, and I completely forsee having a Windows dongle for $40-$50. I don't think Android and other alternative OS's will be able to compete for very long at that price.

Re:OEM?

[Billly Gates]

DirectX 12 will cut CPU usage in half similar to Mantle for ATI systems.

Your system if it is a low end cpu will benefit greatly from this.

Re:OEM?

[ArcadeMan]

That's great, but over 100$CAD for the operating system of a gaming PC is still more than I care to pay for.

Subscription = Fail

[erp_consultant]

MS can't be serious can they? Do they really expect people to pony up money every year to use the OS? Maybe corporate customers will go for this. Consumers...no way.

The big question of course is what happens if you don't pay the vig...ummm, I mean the yearly subscription fee? Is MS going to somehow brick the PC? Will you see annoying pop ups until you pay? Will the OS have restrictions - like how many programs you can run or reduced screen resolution?

I think the likely outcome is increased sales of Apple products and/or Android tablets. And reduced sales of MS products.

Man, talk about killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

April 1

[DeBaas]

Free? Is it April 1 already. Damn time flies

Re:April 1

[Anonymous Coward]

Read the marketing speak. Subscription model free for the 1st year. Then they can do whatever they want ... lock you out of your data (skydrive?), keep you from getting updates, or even brick your pc. nothing like being held hostage by a mega-corp.

Re:April 1

[Straif]

There is no plans on introducing a subscription based system. The Mashable writer just has poor comprehension skills.

If it doesn't...

[Anonymous Coward]

have ZFS, I'm not interested.

Now they know who they're recording.

[Anonymous Coward]

Preview records your keystrokes, now your credit card and personal info tied to your Windows O/S makes it easier than ever to {Insert latest directive here}

free as in AOL

[raymorris]

Not free as in free speech.
Not free as in free beer.
Free as in AOL. :)

Re:free as in AOL

[aristotle-dude]

Not free as in free speech. Not free as in free beer. Free as in AOL. :)

Beer is never free. Someone has to pay for it.

Re:free as in AOL

[msauve]

Plus, you can't buy beer. You can only get it on a rental basis.

Re:free as in AOL

[aristotle-dude]

Plus, you can't buy beer. You can only get it on a rental basis.

Corona beer only looks recycled.

Re:free as in AOL

[Anonymous Coward]

> Beer is never free. Someone has to pay for it.

You have a problem with Logic: if someone paid me a beer, that means it was free. Which part of that is hard to get?

If you're a religious guy, ultimately all things are given to use by the Lord. Do you think He has to pay?

If you are an atheist, start praying that you don't get to pay the bill for the Sun's light & heat...

Yeah, there's no free lunch... either you are "genius" or live on selling bridges...

Re:free as in AOL

[Anonymous Coward]

if someone paid me a beer, that means it was free

If someone paid you a beer, then it wasn't free because you must have done something to earn it and the person paying you with it had to acquire it somehow. If someone gave you a beer, it's free to you, but not for the person giving it to you. No matter what, someone, somewhere along the line paid for that beer.

If you are an atheist, start praying

I don't think you quite grasp the concept of atheism.

Prayer is for people who believe in magic and faerie tales. It's a way of feeling like you're doing something without actually doing anything.

Re:free as in AOL

[Anonymous Coward]

Not free as in free speech.
Not free as in free beer.
Free as in AOL. :)

So they are going to shower us with Windows 10 CDs that nobody wants?

OH GOD!!! SOMEONE PLEASE PAY THEM TO STOP!!!!

Re:free as in AOL

[Anonymous Coward]

well it tastes like someone else has drunk it before they bottled it...

Re:free as in AOL

[Anonymous Coward]

god damned libertardians....

The simple solution to Win 8's woes.

[Anonymous Coward]

All Microsoft had to do to avoid the horrible confusion generated by the mismatched interfaces of the Desktop and Metro, was 'float' the Metro interface over the desktop on the press of the Windows key. Metro apps could be started up from this.

No confusion, and the user knows exactly what they're going to get.

New Computer

[droidsURlooking4]

will stop working after one year and demand a credit card? This could finally be the Holy Grail for Linux adoption.

subscription based OS? No thanks

[ihtoit]

I would rather chew off my own foot.

Or, rather less potentially painfully, simply install Linux.

Re:subscription based OS? No thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

Article author has no reading comprehension skills. There is NO mention or indication AT ALL from MS about subscriptions for Windows. In fact, they used this EXACT method with Win 8. You can upgrade for free/cheap for X amount of time after release, but if you wait longer than X you have to pay. Notice how no one who got a free/cheap upgrade for 8/8.1 is on a subscription?

Win 10 is going to be exactly the same. Ignore the article author.

What?

[Anonymous Coward]

:D

Dear Microsoft

[DickBreath]

Please remember the words of your younger, wiser self. If it is free, then it must not have any value.

Re:Dear Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

Please remember the words of your younger, wiser self. If it is free, then it must not have any value.

"What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing" --Oscar Wilde

Re:Dear Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I believe it is Microsoft's "act of contrition" for foisting Vista, 7 and 8 on us all :-)

Gee, I wonder if the Task Scheduler will work without self-destructing in Win 10???

Re:Dear Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

No wonder bar-sluts have such low self-esteem.

Re:Dear Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

Like Linux and any other OSS then?
Who the fuck modded you insightful?

Re:Dear Microsoft

[Seahawk]

Yes, screw all the worthless open source software.

Re:Dear Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

Except Microsoft never said anything like that and in fact have been giving away various software for free for years.

Subscription might be good for ReactOS

[Anonymous Coward]

That project should really ramp up their efforts. Delivering a free OS that respects some Windows APIs and doesn't have all the subscription-related nastiness would be a good thing if everyone's suspicions come to pass.

i this news is of any interest for you

[znrt]

then you are the problem. no hard feelings, life's a bitch, i know.

Still will cost around $100 for an OEM license

[Danathar]

If you are building a home PC, it's still going to cost you around $100 for the software. Big OEM producers, current license holders get to upgrade or install for free.

But screw you home builders. Pay the tax to join the club. No free OS for you. Once you are "in" THEN you can upgrade for free.

Re:Still will cost around $100 for an OEM license

[Overzeetop]

As is true with every piece of hardware out there. OEMs don't get to install 10 for free, they pay a per-box fee. Even Apple has a value for the OS they install with each Mac, and when you buy a new Mac you get to pay that engineering fee all over again.

If you own a W7 or W8 license (i.e. you bought their software) and you build a new machine in within a year of the new W10 release, you get to upgrade for free, too.

Re:Still will cost around $100 for an OEM license

[Danathar]

Oh I don't disagree with your analysis, it's just that from a revenue perspective MS really does not NEED to charge $100 to home builders. It's a pittance to their bottom line and would generate some nice karma from the home enthusiast build your own PC crowd.

Yes, my home rig runs Linux, but if I could get Windows for cheap or free I'd load it and use it on occasion when the need appears (some specific game or whatever).

Right now though, between browser and Steam I can't think of WHY I need to shell out $100 for Windows. I'm not a heavy shooter gamer and the longer time goes on the games I do like (Like wasteland 2) are available.

Re:Still will cost around $100 for an OEM license

[Billly Gates]

No it won't.

It is free. Only the subscriptions are the add-ons like OneDrive, domain support, Azure, etc. MS will include a year for free if you upgrade from Windows 7 or 8.1 for the 1st year. Then you decide if you want to continue these add on services.

Hum....

[ndykman]

I wonder if the days of selling Windows are over. Sure, at the worst, it could be a subscription service, but it could be that Microsoft realizes that on the consumer side, people just get the OS on their PC. Or, they are hoping enough people will get back on board with Windows and they can sell Windows 11 when it comes out.

On the enterprise side, businesses already have licensing, so they are already on the subscription model.

Anyway, I'm more interested in what you can turn off and opt out of. For example. Cortana is built into Windows 10. I have no interest in talking to my computer. But, Cortana has a typing mode (this is great). However, some people will want to opt out of the tracking and data that it does.

However, looking at the live event, Windows 10 finally looks completely sane. The "break it, fix it" pattern that they established with Vista seems to be in place here too.

And HoloLens? That's just some geeky bling right there.

Re:Hum....

[PRMan]

They established the "break it, fix it" pattern with ME and XP. You're probably just not old enough to remember.

Re:Hum....

[Anonymous Coward]

HoloLens - The most impressive thing shown, though the xbox forwarded to your win10 device thing looked pretty darn useful for gamers too.

Re:Hum....

[ndykman]

I am old enough but I forgot. A tip of the hat to you.

Re:Hum....

[Dwedit]

Everyone who talks about ME and XP and the Even/Odd rule seems to forget the elephant in the room: Windows 2000. Really great operating system.

Re:Hum....

[Anonymous Coward]

The even/odd "rule" is just something idiots use because they need to have a neat little classification system. The real truth is:

MS-DOS 1.x - sucked
MS-DOS 2.x - sucked
MS-DOS 3.x - good
MS-DOS 4.x - sucked
MS-DOS 5.x - good
MS-DOS 6.x - good
Windows 1.x - sucked
Windows 2.x - sucked
Windows 3.x - sucked
Windows NT 3.x - sucked
Windows 9x/Me - sucked
Windows NT 4.x - good
Windows 2000 - good
Windows XP - sucked
Windows Server 2003 - sucked
Windows Vista - good
Windows Server 2008 - good
Windows 7 - good
Windows 8 - good
Windows Server 2012 - good

reinstalls

[Anonymous Coward]

So I used to do fresh re install of windows every year.. Since win7 that has changes to maybe every 2 years (because of bloat, slowness, better drivers). I wonder how they will handle re installs.. Can I get a new win 10 key from my win 8 pro key?

Re:reinstalls

[Lumpy]

Nope.

You get to run their web installer for free for the first year, after that get out the credit card.

Wait?

[lennier1]

They've managed to find yet another way to screw it up mere nanoseconds before reaching the finish line?

Re:Wait?

[Anonymous Coward]

They've managed to find yet another way to screw it up mere nanoseconds before reaching the finish line?

Or the article and summary screwed it up and fired up a completely baseless debate here (what else is new..), because the statement from Microsoft and all other news reports actually says

"This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device at no additional charge."

Cinder Rella at 12:01 am

[Tablizer]

what happens after the first year?...If you don't pay will it brick your PC...?

It turns into Vista, the equivalent of a pumpkin.

Re:Cinder Rella at 12:01 am

[gstoddart]

I'm running Vista right now, you insensitive clod.

(Actually, I am ... and strangely, I've always found it to be decent on my current machine. It just needed enough resources.)

Re:Cinder Rella at 12:01 am

[Tablizer]

In that case, you get Windows ME after the deadline.

Re: Cinder Rella at 12:01 am

[jd2112]

Cool! I can carve it up this Halloween and use it as a Jack o lantern

Re: Cinder Rella at 12:01 am

[Tablizer]

Somebody beat you to it: https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/...

Re: Cinder Rella at 12:01 am

[Coren22]

That won't smell very good after a month, maybe even quicker with the heat produced by the computer. Neat hack though.

Re: Cinder Rella at 12:01 am

[Anonymous Coward]

Not sure if trolling but that pumpkin is quite obviously shellacked. It will probably outlive you.

Re:im guessing the iterations were something simil

[HornWumpus]

You missed all the NTs prior to XP, nimrod.

Did I miss windows verson 9?

[Zymergy]

Not trying to flunk the common core "new" math propagation series, but shouldn't version NINE follow version 8 and be before 10 (as in 8, 9, 10)? Perhaps this has been discussed herein with scholarly vigor, but I must have missed the explanations as to why there is Nein Nine...?

Re:Did I miss windows verson 9?

[ColdCat]

One of the reasons, "Windows 9" could be detected by some soft as "Windows 95" or "Windows 98" to be safe they skip the 9 and jumps to 10.

Re:Did I miss windows verson 9?

[Imagix]

Rumour has it that various lazy developers were doing Windows version detection in some programs by searching for "Windows 9*", which matches 95, 98, and 98SE. But... this will do bad things when it matches "Windows 9" as well....

Re: Did I miss windows verson 9?

[gwjgwj]

Because 7 8 9

Re:Did I miss windows verson 9?

[Anonymous Coward]

A common flaw in the version detection code used in windows software looks for Windows 95 and 98 as 'Windows 9". Since the software is still widely in use, MS had to change their name for the next Windows version.

Re:Did I miss windows verson 9?

[emorning]

One of the reasons, "Windows 9" could be detected by some soft as "Windows 95" or "Windows 98" to be safe they skip the 9 and jumps to 10.

I think MS made up that excuse. The real reason is that it's way too fun to shout Windows! Nine! while clicking your boot heels together.

Re:Did I miss windows verson 9?

[BarbaraHudson]

A common flaw in the version detection code used in windows software looks for Windows 95 and 98 as 'Windows 9". Since the software is still widely in use, MS had to change their name for the next Windows version.

A logical-sounding excuse, except that stuff that ran under 95 or 98 doesn't run under 64-bit versions of Windows 8. Who's buying 32-bit machines nowadays?

Re:Did I miss windows verson 9?

[damnbunni]

64 bit Windows 8 will run 32 bit Windows 95/98 software just fine.

It's the 16 bit Windows 3.1 era stuff it craps out on.

(Okay, there is some 16 bit Win9x software. But most of what I have is 32 bit. The obnoxious exceptions are game installers. TIE Fighter for Windows? 32 bit. TIE Fighter's installer program? 16 bit.)

Re:Did I miss windows verson 9?

[Cro Magnon]

I thought it was because they didn't want their German market to say "Windows? Nein!".

early adopters

[roc97007]

> Microsoft specified it would only be free for the first year,

Continuing the practice of using early adopters as unpaid beta testers, I see. Whatever revenue they lose with this practice will more than be made up in all the free bug reports.

Initially you could get Windows 8 for $49. I couldn't pass that up, but in retrospect it was a lot of hassle for nothing (as I ended up regening windows 7 on the machine). The only saving grace is that I fixed a registry glitch regarding screen resolution, and later when trying to find a solution to a different problem in the microsoft forum, ran across many people requesting assistance on the problem I had just fixed. The Microsoft offshore admins were as usual handing out useless scripted responses ("please to be sure that you are having the latest video drivers installed") and I was able to actually help some people. Unpaid, of course. But hey, it's for the children.

Nope

[Anonymous Coward]

"Microsoft specified it would only be free for the first year, indicating Windows would be software that users subscribe to, rather than buy outright."

Nope nope nope nope nope nope nope. Nope nope nope nope. Nope. Nope NOPE nope $*#(%^@ nope.

THIS will drive me to Linux as a desktop.

beer wants to be free

[raymorris]

> Beer is never free. Someone has to pay for it.

beer wants to be free

Re:beer wants to be free

[Anonymous Coward]

It not only wants to be free, it has strength in numbers! When I try to oppress too much beer at once, it often riots and escapes.

Re:beer wants to be free

[idontgno]

Don't anthropomorphize beer.

It doesn't like it.

Re:beer wants to be free

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

Beer will be released from captivity, in a slightly modified form, but still in the same golden yellow color, after a few hours.

Re:beer wants to be free

[Anonymous Coward]

My beer WIll be free.
As soon as I use the bathroom.
(I was only renting it!)

Re:beer wants to be free

[Anonymous Coward]

anthropomorphism wants to be free too

Re:beer wants to be free

[Anonymous Coward]

You've been talking to my bladder, haven't you?

Re:beer wants to be free

[Ol Olsoc]

> Beer is never free. Someone has to pay for it.

beer wants to be free

In my experience, beer wants to be pee.

Pete Pachal is an idiot

[Overzeetop]

The linked article has Pete Pachal's unfounded speculation that Windows 10 will be an annual subscription, touting it as fact.

The actual quote from a MS executive is, "Once a device is upgraded to Windows 10, we'll be keeping it current for the supported lifetime of the device," said Terry Myerson, executive vice president of the Operating Systems Group.

So, no, you won't be losing your upgrade after a year. Like Apple, once your device has reached it's supported lifetime MS isn't guaranteeing that you'll be able to upgrade anymore and you'll be stuck with an OS that has basically been EOL'd as far as support is concerned. This is really a way to (1) get you on the hardware upgrade train (2) reduce version fragmentation in the Windows sphere and (3) reduce legacy OS support for the vast majority of MS users.

Re:Pete Pachal is an idiot

[Zymergy]

I would like a concrete definition for the phrase "for the supported lifetime of the device", please? (I suspect the devices are to be supported for about 365 days. lol....)

Re:Pete Pachal is an idiot

[Overzeetop]

Well, if the lifetime of the supported device ends after a year, then you would have to buy a license/subscription for an unsupported device.

As I speculated, it's probably like Apple. My Gen 1 iPad, bought in early 2011, is no longer supported by Apple. None of the OS updates since 5.1.1 have been available on the device, despite it being less than 4 years old. My daughter's iPod Touch (4th gen) was bought in December of 2011, and won't run anything past iOS6.1.6, and it's barely 3 years old.

Will MS EOL devices so quickly? Hard to tell. Possibly for tablets and handsets. They have less control over hardware so there could be processor cut-offs or minimum installed requirements checks (proc type/speed, installed memory) instead of model number limits.

Re:Pete Pachal is an idiot

[DarthVain]

My only concern would be how you define "supported lifetime of the device". I know at one time MS liked to think every time you upgraded a component, or changed your hardware configuration slightly, it was suddenly a brand new install.

That said, if you have your physical media for Windows 7 and licencing keys, at worst you just waste your time doing backups/installs. I know I would be more comfortable on an "Upgrade" that they allow you to download and burn a physical disk with individual software keys for a full version of Windows 10. Because when shit goes wrong and you need to fix it, I am not sure how great that upgrade is going to be.

Re:Subscription = Fail

[dixonpete]

Microsoft is seriously doubling down on the stupid. Do they ever consider the wishes of their customers before making these major moves?

Re:im guessing the iterations were something simil

[unixisc]

NT 3.1 was very stable, but slow. 3.5 got faster, and improved support for RISC platforms. 4 got the Windows 98 UI, but was still good. 2000 was a major improvement, but dropped RISC support. Finally, went over to XP

DVD

[Anonymous Coward]

It's all good if I still am able to buy a reasonably priced upgrade dvd with install capability even after the first year. After all, OS holding storage sometimes do fail or gets upgraded.

Re:DVD

[misosoup7]

The upgrade download always has an option to download the email to burn to DVD. Once you have the iso you can turn the iso into a USB stick this from Microsoft if you don't have blank DVDs or a DVD writer. It's open source too, so likely no nefariousness there.

Re:DVD

[misosoup7]

Forgot /. doesn't allow hyperlinks. The link is at http://wudt.codeplex.com/

Re:DVD

[Anonymous Coward]

What I was after was the limited install time of the Media Center package offer over the regular Windows. If the upgrade product code ceases to work after the first year, there would be a problem. I can't believe MS would do such a thing, though.

Re:DVD

[misosoup7]

So I think you have a year to claim your upgrade code. At least that's how it was with Windows 7 to 8. I got the $15 code within the time frame. And my code still worked last week when I finally gotten around to updating that laptop.

exactly. just like a pusher, first one's free.

[Anonymous Coward]

question is, will it be an upper or a downer.

What about after 1 year

[Anonymous Coward]

My concern would be what happens if you have to re-install after one year with your version of Win 7?

Hard disk crashes 366 days after release, can I install 10 from my Win 7 DVD or do I have to pay for Win 10?

Re:What about after 1 year

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing happens, you do a clean install using the v10 key you were given as part of the free upgrade.... similar to 8.0 -> 8.1. Jesus people!!!
 

Only for the first year

[pottsj]

Did M$ actually say the OS would become a subscription model? Perhaps saying it would only be free for the first year simply means that if you wait longer than a year to upgrade, it will cost you. I could see them doing this to encourage a lot of early adopters

Trying to implement a subscription-based OS would be akin to their attempts to create a a walled garden like they did with Windows RT. Stupid. Hopefully they learned from their experiences with RT...

Re:Subscription = Fail

[Anonymous Coward]

Both of you are commenting on false information, great job.

They are deliberately being vague about this

[Anonymous Coward]

By being vague about the subscription aspect of this they can then backtrack later on if it looks like people won't stomach the the idea of a subscription model.

Re:They are deliberately being vague about this

[Anonymous Coward]

No. This is NOT about a rent-a-os by the month\year model, not yet anyway.
The use of the word subscription in the context of what was said (once in two hours), was you buy our OS we see it as a subscription...you buy today we float you a couple releases (because they are on a quicker cadence than in years past) if they happen over the next couple years(or whatever timeframe MS feels is good for them). So you forked out money for 8... they gave you 8.1 and 10 for free... at some point they will hit you up again say for v11 - your choice and nothing bad happens to you prior purchases.

PS. They threw 7 in there this time around to just help move people off of it.

Re:They are deliberately being vague about this

[Anonymous Coward]

Well obviously. Look what happened when they were very specific about their plans for, e.g. the XBox One. They had one PR person after another tripping over each other's statements -- the console will be always on, it won't, games will be available via download only or come out on disks like usual...the console will either support used games or it won't. By the time the XBone actually came out people knew only two things about it... 1) it was more expensive than the PS4 was going for at the time and 2) it came with Kinect...I've yet to meet a single person who actually wanted Kinect bundled with the system. Every time Microsoft made an announcement about the XBone, Sony would almost literally come out with a press statement that the PS4 would be doing the exact opposite...and it worked. The two systems aren't really all that different now that they're out for a while, in form or function...but Microsoft's PR bungling poisoned the well on the initial release. A lot of people passed over it just on bad word of mouth, word of mouth that Microsoft themselves threw out there.

They're being vague now for the exact reasons you state...rather than throw their plans out there, which almost certainly include that "free" upgrade requiring some sort of online yearly subscription for certain features (or the entire OS), they're "suggesting" directions, implying certain decisions in successive builds, to gauge public opinion. As opposed to Windows 8, where they basically decided "hey, we want in on the touchscreen market" and that's about all the thought they put into it. Didn't think about whether or not it worked properly, didn't think about the inconsistencies until after release and some of those still aren't fixed. The screenshots of Windows 10 aren't particularly encouraging, it looks like they essentially just took the tile interface and squeezed it into an oversized version of XP's start menu...I don't know if that's the best or worst of both worlds, reserving judgment on that for when I actually run a copy of it.

The strategy is pretty obvious, though. Drop hints here and there, watch social media sites blow up and tune their plans (and the OS) accordingly.

The first one's always free...

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell me more about this "linux" you all have been taking about...

Did I miss windows verson 9?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry but, seven eight nine!

So now my O/S is indistinguishable from Ransomware

[Anonymous Coward]

Wonderful. Pay or we lock you out of your computer.

Fuck you, Microsoft.

What about Windows 9?

[Arcady13]

I don't understand why Microsoft decided to skip Windows 9. They are skipping the version that would have been good!

Windows XP: Good
Windows Vista: Bad
Windows 7: Good
Windows 8: Bad
Windows 9: (Good?)
Windows 10: (Bad?)

Re:What about Windows 9?

[Anonymous Coward]

Jesus Christ, this was covered *months* ago. They're skipping "Windows 9" because so many installers have shitty code in them that looks for "Windows 9" as a substring, as a shitty way of checking for "Windows 98", "Windows 95", etc.

Re:What about Windows 9?

[fullmetal55]

I read that it was because of lazy programmers who did a windows version check vs the text line in the windows version, basically if it returned windows 9* it meant it was windows 95, 98, 98Se... so Windows 9 will be mistaken as Windows 95/98/98SE... and thus old... like me...

Re:What about Windows 9?

[Anonymous Coward]

The current theory is that they skipped Windows 9 to avoid dealing with legacy bad code. For example:

if(os.version.startsWith("Windows 9")) { /* code that assumes we are dealing with Windows 95 or Windows 98 */
}

The "cloud".

[Anonymous Coward]

That's what happened.

Not necessarily subscription-based

[Cinder6]

Everyone is jumping to the conclusion, but I haven't seen any Microsoft statement indicating that. "Free for the first year" could easily mean that it's free if you install it within the first year of release, and after that it will cost money. There's already precedent for this. Windows 8 Pro was $40 for the first year (may have been less, but that's not the point), but went up in price afterward. It was an incentive to get people upgrade, which is exactly what this promotion sounds like.

So wait, guys, I'm still not clear

[OldSport]

The previous 200 comments have not satisfactorily answered the question: will it be free forever or subscription based?

Re:So wait, guys, I'm still not clear

[Talonius]

As noted below, from windows.com:

Great news! We will offer a free upgrade to Windows 10 for qualified new or existing Windows 7, Windows 8.1 and Windows Phone 8.1 devices that upgrade in the first year!* And even better: once a qualified Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it up to date for the supported lifetime of the device, keeping it more secure, and introducing new features and functionality over time – for no additional charge. Sign up with your email today, and we will send you more information about Windows 10 and the upgrade offer in the coming months.

Emphasis added by me.

Re:So wait, guys, I'm still not clear

[Anonymous Coward]

The simple fact is, Microsoft have not made a definitive statement one way or the other:
1. Will Windows 10 be available up-front for a one-time-only fee?
2. Will Windows 10 be available in a subscription format?
3. If you take advantage of the 'free upgrade' within 1 year for Windows 7/8 platforms, will this be the free equivalent of #1, or #2?
4. Are there any other fish-hooks in their 'free upgrade', for example if you take advantage of the 'free upgrade' and then change your CPU, will this now constitute a 'different device' and require a purchase to be made?

Re:So wait, guys, I'm still not clear

[OldSport]

Should have known sarcasm wouldn't fly on a message board for nerds...

Beware ...

[PPH]

... of Geeks bearing gifts.

Time to riot

[slashmydots]

"Microsoft specified it would only be free for the first year, indicating Windows would be software that users subscribe to, rather than buy outright."
They also announced the Xbox One will spy on you with its mic and camera while it's powered off and disallow used game sales. How'd that go, Microsoft?

Re:Time to riot

[Overzeetop]

You're quoting the mouth diarrhea of Pete Pachal, a Mashable "reporter" who can't discern between facts presented and his own, flawed interpretation of a slide show line.

Here's the actual quote from MS "Once a device is upgraded to Windows 10, we'll be keeping it current for the supported lifetime of the device," said Terry Myerson, executive vice president of the Operating Systems Group

Re:Time to riot

[JustNiz]

I guess the real truth is in what does "supported lifetime" actually mean?

i will not...

[Anonymous Coward]

pay to subscribe to an operating system (or office software, or creative suite, for that matter).. so fuck off, microsoft (and adobe)....

So how much....

[clickety6]

...will it cost me to upgrade from XP or Vista?

Microsoft Marketing, Money & Subscriptions

[BoRegardless]

Used to be computers were replaced every year or two and at most 3, giving Microsoft a short turnaround in selling Windows for continual income.

With hardware being more reliable and in more of a limited set of new features, people don't need to upgrade as often and MS sees their OS income in long term decline.

Anyone who tells me Microsoft is not moving toward yearly subscriptions is doing spin.

Re:Microsoft Marketing, Money & Subscriptions

[DaHat]

There is also the competition.

Back in the day you had mostly just PCs & Macs, now you have various tablets and smartphones as well.

While I need a desktop to do most of my work & play, both of my parents can get by with a simple iPad or Android based tablet... how does Microsoft sell Windows to people that no longer need it to carry out their work/play? A subscription alone doesn't give the customer anything... there would need to be reoccurring value for it, and I think that's something we'd probably hear a year or so into Windows 10 being available.

So glad I switched to OSX years ago!

[Anonymous Coward]

Feels so good to know I made the right choice. Have fun paying your Windows bill, gamer dorks.

Mix purchasing model.

[blueshift_1]

I really don't think that M$ (or maybe that is hope) will go into only OS subscription, maybe an OS + office + other goodies subscription that'll allow users to not have to lock in their versions. However, I feel like they know some will always want a buy it, keep it style. Similar to how Adobe now has the creative commons subscription as well as the standard buy it for their products.

With regard to the free update, it just makes sense. It'll allow earlier adoption, improving the new OSs market share from ther very beginning so they aren't banking on PC sales and the early adopters who want the latest thing and then reduce issues when the phase an OS out.

Re:Mix purchasing model.

[DaHat]

That is my impression as well. Hell, they have already been testing this model with Office... you can either go buy a single retail full version for ~$400 and keep using it in perpetuity... or pay $100 a year for Office 365 and get Office across 5 different devices and upgrades to later versions so long as you keep paying.

I know some who are still happy using their several version behind copies of Office... and others who prefer the subscription model. To each their own... and now both are supported.

Re:Subscription = Fail

[dixonpete]

Are you suggesting MS isn't going to a subscription model for the OS? It seemed pretty clear to me that it is.

Re:im guessing the iterations were something simil

[Himmy32]

For Pedantry sake, if you are going by kernels OP should have only included the NT's, since the Win 9X product line was discontinued after WinMe. But if you are talking consumer OS's then the OP didn't miss anything.

MS takes a hint from D&D

[Anonymous Coward]

"We're sorry but your +1 DvD of Installing has run out of charges."

they can lock out other os as well and if they rea

[Anonymous Coward]

they can lock out other OS as well and if they really want to be evil DMCA lawsuits / take downs on people who try to install an non MS os. You think that is bad they can take it even higher with computer hacking changes on people who bypass windows DRM by installing Linux so Linux install on a windows box = felon (but there is one up side to that free room and board with a doctor with co pays as low as $3)

The policy is pretty clear on windows.com.

[Talonius]

Great news! We will offer a free upgrade to Windows 10 for qualified new or existing Windows 7, Windows 8.1 and Windows Phone 8.1 devices that upgrade in the first year!* And even better: once a qualified Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it up to date for the supported lifetime of the device, keeping it more secure, and introducing new features and functionality over time – for no additional charge. Sign up with your email today, and we will send you more information about Windows 10 and the upgrade offer in the coming months.

Blows the subscription model idea out of the water.

Re:The policy is pretty clear on windows.com.

[Voyager529]

Blows the subscription model idea out of the water.

tl;dr: "supported lifetime" seems to be the easy cop out here, especially since it is a term that doesn't apply to desktops in the same ways that it does in mobile, and trying to force desktops to adhere in that manner isn't a good thing...

True, but it raises other questions instead. "supported lifetime of the device" is a highly suspect phrase here. We see Apple giving phones and tablets approximately three years of "supported lifetime". Apple can do that for a few reasons, but amongst the reasons why the customer base generally tolerates it is because Apple releases new devices mostly-annually, so getting three years of both hardware and software improvements is usually a worthwhile investment for consumers - the "supported lifetime" is acceptable because of trade-up.

Desktops are a completely different animal. I suspect that a significant minority (if not a majority) of iPad users have a desktop or laptop in active use that is older than their iPad, and I'd similarly suspect that the majority of them would prefer to upgrade their iPad this year, rather than their desktop, given the choice of only being able to spring for one or the other. What we've done with desktops is had two functional tiers of existence: in-warranty (where the OEM generally updates and fixes things), and out-of-warranty (where 'the computer guy' handles this stuff). Mobile devices are more disposable, in no small part because repairing them and upgrading them isn't always desirable - either expensive, impractical, or both. This is the area where traditional desktop/laptop computing has always had an edge.

Moreover, it is highly irregular for OEMs to provide OS upgrades to their computers. I had an HP laptop that I bought with XP after Vista's announcement (but not its release), so I registered the machine and HP sent me a Vista disk and key. That was highly irregular, and had to do with my purchase date, not my warranty length. I bought my Origin laptop with a three year, soup-to-nuts warranty in early 2011. That ran out last year, long after Windows 8's release. No Windows 8 disc in sight, and while admittedly I didn't ask, I sincerely doubt Origin would have sent it to me, despite the laptop being within the "supported lifetime of the device" by most practical definitions. The machine does, however, get regular security patches for the version of Windows that it /does/ run. Mobile devices' concept of "updates" involve both "security patches" and "OS version upgrades", whereas desktops do not.

So how does all this tie into Windows being a subscription or not? Well, both "OS updates" and "supported lifetime" are more clearly defined terms in mobile devices, and bringing that paradigm to the desktop yields yet another issue: the "broom problem". If you're a Doctor Who fan, there was an episode this season where The Doctor was saying that if you take a broom and replace the head when it wears out, and then you replace the handle because it breaks, and then replace the head again because it wears out, it's not the same broom anymore. With desktops, we have the same issue - the hard disk dies, we replace the disk. We upgrade a 4GB RAM module with an 8GB module, we add a video card to play games, and the PSU to power it, then we want to SLI, so we replace the motherboard, which mandates a different processor, and change the DVD burner to a Blu-Ray burner...If all these upgrades and replacements happen over three years, we end up with a completely different computer than the one we started with - at what point does the Windows license no longer apply? Microsoft has arbitrarily pointed to "the motherboard", which in fairness is about the closest thing one can get to a reasonable component definition (it's got the most hardware-as-detected-by-Windows of any single physical component), but even those die or have some sort of issue or whatever. What if the CPU is supported, but the motherboard is not? I sincerely doubt Gigabyt

One Year Misunderstood?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think summary misunderstands the "one year". After watching the presentation, the impression that I got was that Windows 10 will available as a free upgrade for one year after it is released. Implying that it would be a paid upgrade after that first year.

There is nothing said that implied that it would be a subscription model after that first year. It really just sounds like a special "price" for the existing users during the first year. Which honestly makes much more sense to me.

Re:Subscription = Fail

[bws111]

Dixonpete said it seemed pretty clear to him, indicating that he is smoking dope. See what happens when you put an unsubstantiated editorial comment in with a quote? Now go back and read that stupid '... upgrades will be free for one year, indicating a move to a subscription...; line and tell us which is a quote and which is editorial comment. Here is a hint: Microsoft said not one word about subscriptions.

De-Fragmentation

[flanders123]

One motivation for this may be to address their fragmentation issue. My guess is MS is tired of supporting multiple versions of OS concurrently, and multiple concurrent versions of software that run on those concurrent OS's. Think of the costs associated with trying to manage/test/support all this compatibility (not that they have been great at this in recent years).

So maybe they are taking an Apple approach and de-fragmenting their own walled garden, reducing products, cutting costs, and hopefully providing a more uniform experience for its customers.

But really I am just dreaming of the day I can stop developing for IE6 compatibility in websites :-)

What they are really saying is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 10 is going to be so much more crappy than any previous windows release, they have to give it away.

Did I miss windows verson 9?

[grahamsaa]

I wonder if they were concerned about the jokes their potential German customers might make. "Windows? Nein!"

The peasants are revolting. Yes, they really are.

[Cajun Hell]

Either way, I predict a massive revolt about 365 days after the upgrade is released.

Let me guess: this "revolt" will consist of a bunch of people saying slightly unpleasant things on web forums, while also continuing to use and install applications that keep them locked into Windows APIs. That way, they get to play the victim card again in the future, the next time they get angry at Microsoft.

It's a trap!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a trap! Run!

Upgrade

[Dripdry]

Has anyone here had a better experience upgrading an MS product?
I always learned to simply install fresh, so an upgrade seems like a potentially Bad Idea.

Waiting for them to open-source the entire OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Now there would be a humanitarian gesture if I ever saw one. We could remove them damn NSA back doors too!

Only if it is Prism edition

[ikhider]

Well, Microsoft fell behind Google as the foremost support to the likes of the NSA, US military and so on. Windows 8 helps, because you need to log in with your hotmail account so you can be tracked better. While you can opt out of tracking, it is made to be difficult to do so. Most users will just go the easy route. Tracking Windows 7 users is not as easy as 8. However, if you have Windows 10, then you get all the 7. 8, and 8.1 users on board and tracking will be so much easier!

Windows 9what?

[tepples]

Remember it's only free for users of Windows 9.

95 or 98?

Free or not, what about Cortana?

[Anonymous Coward]

Clippie was bad enough, popping up a cheesy cartoon - "I see you're trying to do a Mailmerge....."

NOW they're giving the damn thing a VOICE!

Nag nag nag all the day.

Full-screen Start is the problem

[tepples]

The much-maligned UI is actually just the Windows 7 UI with a full-screen Start menu, which I find interrupts my workflow to exactly the same extent that the Windows 7 Start menu does, meaning minimally.

The fact that it's forced full-screen rather than snapped is the problem. At least with the Windows 7 Start menu, I could see a bit of what I was working on in the corner of my screen, which provided some subconscious continuity. In fact, if I had a program snapped to the right side (Windows+Right), I could see all of it while the Start menu was open. But with Windows 8's Start screen, everything is covered up. The full-screen context switch imposes a cognitive burden similar to going through a doorway and forgetting what you came in for. That's why the first thing onto every Windows 8.1 PC that I use regularly is Classic Shell, which reproduces the functionality of Windows 7's Start menu.

Re:Full-screen Start is the problem

[vux984]

The fact that it's forced full-screen rather than snapped is the problem. At least with the Windows 7 Start menu, I could see a bit of what I was working on in the corner of my screen, which provided some subconscious continuity. In fact, if I had a program snapped to the right side (Windows+Right), I could see all of it while the Start menu was open. But with Windows 8's Start screen, everything is covered up. The full-screen context switch imposes a cognitive burden similar to going through a doorway and forgetting what you came in for.

All true. No argument.
Now, as you are clearly both intelligent and a power user: why exactly do you use the start screen so much in 8.1?

Create custom taskbar menus and pin the apps you use. Documents folder is pinned. Control panels, system properties, etc is right-click on the start button? I can go days without using the start screen on windows 8.1. And when I do use it to search for some obscure thing I rarely use, the fact that its full screen instead of crammed into a corner of the screen is actually a benefit.

Don't get me wrong, I think bringing the start menu back with 10 is the right move for a LOT of reasons. And primarily I completely agree that the way the OS throws them back and forth between the classic and modern UIs is a problem; that shouldn't happen unless they want it to.

You don't need classic shell; you just need to pin and create custom toolbars.

The reason I don't like classic shell, is that while it rejects the mistakes of Windows 8; it PRESERVES the mistakes of Windows 7. The classic start menu is an abomination. Clearly what they did with win 8 isn't the correct solution; but at its heart the startmenu is a fixed size POPUP window stuck in the corner containing 2 operating modes, with an arbitrarily deep nested folder heirarchy, and then a bunch of widgets (search), pinned apps, automatically adding frequently/most used apps, and so forth all bolted onto it. It is categorically a terrible bit of user interface.

Windows 8 got the start screen wrong. But Classic Shell clings to a UI that's at least as terrible but is "familiar". We need to try something new. Maybe windows 10 will get it right... i haven't tried it yet.

Re:Full-screen Start is the problem

[Anonymous Coward]

why exactly do you use the start screen so much in 8.1?

Because it's been part of my workflow taught to me by Win7. MS was very keen on having users adapt the integrated search bar in the Start Menu. I can touch start, type a specific sequence of keys (usually only 3, sometimes 2), press Enter, all without moving my hands from the keyboard and also without losing focus on what I'm reading or working on. In Win7, there's no additional cognitive burden of a full-screen swap (as was so well put by the post you were responding to).

Create custom taskbar menus and pin the apps you use.

Sure, but why should I go through that effort AND lose the search-type functionality that the Win7 Start Menu is handling for me already?

Your comments are well-put, and I agree that different people can probably find different ways to adapt. Your suggestion of pinning a new menu would probably work just fine for some folks.

But, Win7 allowed me to adapt a certain workflow that was not unreasonable. In fact, Win7 encouraged me to do that! Win8 forces a change to that workflow for no discernibly improved reason, without giving recourse to restore the old workflow. Regardless of whether my workflow could eventually adapt to the new ways, the fact is, it was broken by Win8. So, although it might be legitimate to question my habits and suggest improvements, it still serves as a reminder that Win8 wrested-away a reasonable feature.

Re:Full-screen Start is the problem

[shutdown -p now]

99% percent of the time, people use the search to basically type just enough text to get the item they want on top, and then press Enter. If your list of installed apps doesn't change frequently, over time you just learn what to type, and it becomes sort of a keyboard shortcut. You don't need a fullscreen search screen for that.

BTW, Start Menu in Win10 is not fixed size. It grows as you pin more tiles to it.

Re:Full-screen Start is the problem

[vux984]

For document searches, and other REAL searches, the start menu in win7 is too small.

But, yes, your right about it as a handy tool for launching programs, and if you dig back in my posting history about win8, you'll find that the search widget as a quick launch program shortcut is the only thing about the windows 7 start menu I think was really lost and doesn't have a proper replacement in 8. (yes the start screen works, but a full screen UI just to launch CMD or gpedit or mstsc, putty, ... etc, etc, is silly.

If they added that search widget functionality (and/or just gave it better autocomplete/history) to the Win+R ("Run" shortcut); or gave us that search functionality as a standalone taskbar gadget optimized for launching programs (not documents etc) we wouldn't really need the win7 search function.

Re:Full-screen Start is the problem

[Anonymous Coward]

When I launch the start menu/screen in any version of Windows, I have never had any single case where I need to focus on both the open app /and/ the start menu at the /same/ time. When I start the start menu/screen, my focus is only on it (on the run/search box or the icons) until I launch the new app I want to work with.

The only diff between Win 7 and 8 start screen is that there are now more app icons that can be pinned. The Win 8 experience is very similar to the Ubuntu default. The most time I spend on Win 7 start menu, Win 8 / Ubuntu start interface is a few secs required to launch another app.

Re:Full-screen Start is the problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Because it's been part of my workflow taught to me by Win7. MS was very keen on having users adapt the integrated search bar in the Start Menu. I can touch start, type a specific sequence of keys (usually only 3, sometimes 2), press Enter, all without moving my hands from the keyboard and also without losing focus on what I'm reading or working on. In Win7, there's no additional cognitive burden of a full-screen swap (as was so well put by the post you were responding to).

Umm. you can do this in windows 8 as well. tap windows key, type, press enter and app starts. if the full screen start causes an "additional cognitive burden" on you then to the point where it is a problem, then you must have very limited cognitive capacity to begin with.

Re:Full-screen Start is the problem

[ray-auch]

The fact that it's forced full-screen rather than snapped is the problem. At least with the Windows 7 Start menu, I could see a bit of what I was working on [...]

I have never understood this argument, why do you need to see what you _were_ working on when starting a _new_ program ? The article you cite doesn't help - it says there is a cognitive burden from the metro/desktop split and hot corners etc., all of which I agree with, but it _doesn't_ say there is a cognitive burden to the start screen (in fact it concludes it's the best choice for tablets and justified on grounds of commonality for desktops).

I fully understand the need to have multiple windows visible when working in one and referring to another, or for drag and drop, and un-moving dialogs (and metro apps) can be a right pain in this regard. But starting a new program is the one part of the desktop workflow where you _don't_ need that at all, at absolute worst case you need to read the name of the new program from another window and remember it - most of the time you already know what you want to start at that point in your workflow.

The start screen is something you flick to, find what you want (with the full screen available to show your options or search results, at least in 8) and then leave, the full screen rendering seems to be faster and a better workflow. I see no reason for the live tiles - I'm not on the start screen for long enough to use them.

In contrast the start menu on 7, with a lot of things installed, I found slow to render and cumbersome to use once you got to two or more levels deep and/or more than a screenful (I seem to recall menu scroll was horrible - 10 is better in this respect but more limited, still prefer the start screen), quite often the start menu would cover most of the screen anyway - it would just take a lot more clicking and scrolling to get there.

Re:Full-screen Start is the problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. And as a power user, the single best keyboard shortcut in Windows 8.1 is WinKey + X which brings up a context-style menu close to where a "classic" start menu would be with all of the most used options you'll need. (i.e. Command Prompt, Computer Management, Control Panel etc.)

Re:Full-screen Start is the problem

[tepples]

why do you need to see what you _were_ working on when starting a _new_ program ?

It's to see the task I am still working on when I am starting a new program to do a new step of working on it. To some novice computer users, an application is a destination, and people don't use several small applications in several steps of a task. But I was brought up in the philosophy of the best tool for each part of the job.

at absolute worst case you need to read the name of the new program from another window and remember it

Remembering it is an unnecessary cognitive burden. To open an RDP session, is it "msts" or "mstc"? Oh wait, it's "mstsc".

Re:Full-screen Start is the problem

[Anonymous Coward]

So do you also suffer from this alleged "cognitive retardation" when you maximise, restore and minimise applications? I'd also like to know how you continue to work on whatever while *simultaneously* using the start menu. What, do you have like two keyboards and two mice hooked up in some weird configuration?

Remembering it is an unnecessary cognitive burden. To open an RDP session, is it "msts" or "mstc"? Oh wait, it's "mstsc".

So you look up the proper command as you would regardless of OS. Or are you seriously saying you can't remember "mstsc" for five seconds?

Re:Full-screen Start is the problem

[tepples]

So do you also suffer from this alleged "cognitive retardation" when you maximise, restore and minimise applications?

No, in part because reminders of the open windows remain in the taskbar, and in part because I rarely use maximized windows on a desktop PC. I'm more likely to use half-screen windows with Win+left and Win+right. The Windows 8 Start screen hides even that. People who run all applications maximized with an auto-hidden taskbar might appreciate the Windows 8 Start screen, but I am not among them.

I'd also like to know how you continue to work on whatever while *simultaneously* using the start menu.

The Windows 7 Start menu and Classic Shell Start menu do not trigger the same psychological "change of scenery" as the Windows 8 Start screen.

So you look up the proper command as you would regardless of OS.

On any other desktop operating system, I would look it up on one side of the screen and type it in on the other.

Or are you seriously saying you can't remember "mstsc" for five seconds?

Allow me a brief reductio ad absurdum: If everybody's memory is as good as you claim yours to be, then why do PC window systems even show more than one line of text at once instead of relying on end users' memories? If that's not enough, as I suspect, then how much context is appropriate for a sighted user?

Re:Full-screen Start is the problem

[ray-auch]

why do you need to see what you _were_ working on when starting a _new_ program ?

It's to see the task I am still working on when I am starting a new program to do a new step of working on it. To some novice computer users, an application is a destination, and people don't use several small applications in several steps of a task. But I was brought up in the philosophy of the best tool for each part of the job.

I agree, but don't see the difference, you either know what you want to do next or you don't. Menu or start screen, mouse or keyboard, the process or launching the next thing is one process and I don't see how you'd forget half way through. I use the keyboard mostly now, and I have typically already started the next keypresses before processing the visual of the start screen (or before it appears). I don't see how there is time to forget. Even if you do, it is one keypress to go back to the desktop to refresh your memory..

at absolute worst case you need to read the name of the new program from another window and remember it

Remembering it is an unnecessary cognitive burden. To open an RDP session, is it "msts" or "mstc"? Oh wait, it's "mstsc".

Um, what ? That is command line / run dialog. It is "remote desktop connection" on the menu - but remembering what it is called is not the problem with start menu, it is remembering _where_ it is.

It was actually in "programs -> accessories -> communications" on 7 (but I had to look that up), sometimes it's in "programs -> accessories" on servers, but it's easy to think it is in "administrative tools -> remote desktop services" or "accessories -> system tools" (accessories -> communications being absent...). All that is why most people just use the run dialog and try and remember "mstsc".

On the start screen, I usually pin it so it is right there, because there is room to pin a lot more, or it is two keypresses away - "r" and "e". So much easier.

I have tried to like the new / old start menu on 10, really, I kept resisting the urge to disable it, but in the end I only lasted a week. Start screen it is, for me. I guess the nice thing about 10 is we can choose.

Re:Full-screen Start is the problem

[Anonymous Coward]

No, in part because reminders of the open windows remain in the taskbar

So if the taskbar showed up in the start screen, you would then be OK with it?

I rarely use maximized windows on a desktop PC

I take it you don't watch videos, do graphics/audio work or play games due to the "jarring" context switch then.

The Windows 7 Start menu and Classic Shell Start menu do not trigger the same psychological "change of scenery" as the Windows 8 Start screen.

Opening the start menu requires a refocus just as much as the start screen does unless you somehow navigate it by peripheral vision alone.

Allow me a brief reductio ad absurdum: If everybody's memory is as good as you claim yours to be, then why do PC window systems even show more than one line of text at once instead of relying on end users' memories? If that's not enough, as I suspect, then how much context is appropriate for a sighted user?

You're missing the point. The vast majority of the time that someone uses the start menu/screen, they are launching apps and don't need to refer to commands. In those few instances when they do, how hard is it to actually remember? For me, not hard at all.

Re:Full-screen Start is the problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, I just tried your example of wanting to launch RDP. Took all of three characters "rem" as in "Remote Desktop" for it to pull up, so why are you looking up commands that actually take *longer* to type?

I think your problem is that you are actively trying to work against the OS and not with it.

Re:Full-screen Start is the problem

[tepples]

Create custom taskbar menus

How would an end user discover A. that this is possible and B. what keywords to use on Google to learn how? Google custom taskbar menus brought me this page, which recommends a bunch of third-party software. Classic Shell is also third-party software.

and pin the apps you use.

As Anonymous Coward wrote in this comment: "You can use Jump Lists from apps pinned to the Taskbar in Windows 8 but having 10+ apps pinned to your Taskbar tends to make it needlessly cluttered, especially when you have multiple non-pinned apps open at the same time."

Re:Full-screen Start is the problem

[tepples]

I have never had any single case where I need to focus on both the open app /and/ the start menu at the /same/ time.

It sounds like you've never had to refer to instructions in a help file or other documentation for starting a particular application or system utility. In that case, either A. you aren't a member of the Administrators group on any of the Windows 8 computers you use and thus have had little need to refer to system administration documentation, B. you have a desktop PC and multiple monitors and enough desk space for all of them, and can thus afford to keep the help file on a separate monitor, or C. you haven't been using Windows 8 for any involved tasks.

Re:Full-screen Start is the problem

[tepples]

you either know what you want to do next or you don't.

Or, as the articles I linked describe, you know contingent on the integrity of the rest of your visuospatial environment. Different people process their surroundings in different ways.

I guess the nice thing about 10 is we can choose.

Which is really all anyone ever wanted in 8.

Re:Full-screen Start is the problem

[vux984]

How would an end user discover A. that this is possible and B. what keywords to use on Google to learn how?

A)
First, we aren't talking about joe-average end user. We are talking about intelligent windows-savvy power-users.

So how do you discover it? Same way we power users discover most things about the user interface by clicking on things.

Right click on your taskbar. Its the first option... "Toolbars"... hmm... what's all this about a savvy power user might ask themselves for that is what savvy power users are apt to do?

what keywords to use on Google to learn how?

Well, having now discovered it: "windows 8 taskbar toolbar" works the 2nd result is pretty much a tutorial on them.

Although taskbar toolbars have been around for a while... Windows 7 has them too. And Vista. And XP. I kinda-sorta think even Windows 98 might have had them.

You can use Jump Lists from apps pinned to the Taskbar in Windows 8 but having 10+ apps pinned to your Taskbar tends to make it needlessly cluttered, especially when you have multiple non-pinned apps open at the same time.

Agreed. But how typical is that REALLY? And your most common 5-10 apps are probably open all the time anyway, and pinned apps are just a partial solution.

Toolbars the other part. The stuff you don't use THAT frequently should go in a toolbar... a toolbar is basically like the pinned list on the old start menu, which can hold another 20-50 apps depending on your screensize and icon settings etc.

Hell you can even point a toolbar to the "start menu" folder and get a hierarchical popup back. Although crafting your own smaller customized list is probably more useful.

Re:Full-screen Start is the problem

[vux984]

I can touch start, type a specific sequence of keys (usually only 3, sometimes 2), press Enter, all without moving my hands from the keyboard and also without losing focus on what I'm reading or working on.

a) that does work in 8. But i agree the context switch is an unwelcome burden.

b) That sort of workflow is a power user thing to do. See below.

it still serves as a reminder that Win8 wrested-away a reasonable feature.

That's fair. I'm not arguing that 8 or 8.1 was an improvment in every way. But the old start menu was a disaster of legacy crap glued together. And it was replaced by a set of reasonable features too... the start screen caters to casual users search (and looks a lot like OSX launchpad) AND it supports real searching better than the start menu ever did being full screen.

The way you and I used the start menu ... it still works... but I agree there is a cognitive burden to the mode switch.

So the only loss was a mode-switch free way to keyboard activate programs quickly that you already knew the names of... doesn't that sound like a power users utility to you? It does to me... and its an itch that's been well scratched.

Launchy, Executor, FARR... and others all not only support that feature, but go beyond what windows 7 ever did. So why cling backwards with classic shell... when we should be looking forward; embracing the things 8.1 got right, and using a power tool like launchy for its shortcomings.

Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe something like launchy should be bundled with windows. But then I think calculator.exe and notepad.exe are pretty worthless too compared to speedcrunch and notepad++...

Re: Full-screen Start is the problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Win-left-right? Alt-tab! Really easy to switch between two windows (back and forth), regardless of whether youre a full screen junkie or not. Also, if I work with more than two at a time its quite easy to know how many tabs (or shift-tabs) to hit for that. All the while I have the other hand free.

The Alt-~ for multiple windows of the same program on OSX sucks a bit though. Still feels weird after almost two years of exclusive Mac use at work but definitely better than all the clicking around I see with my coworkers.

Re:Full-screen Start is the problem

[dave420]

Microsoft Terminal Services Client is ever so difficult to remember! I wonder why people haven't died simply trying to remember it - these MS bastards should be taken to court!

What a load of crap

[john5819]

Windows 10 is a cross-grade from Windows 8.x and a downgrade from Windows 7. Free is still too expensive, given the vast amount of software that will no longer work.

Re:What a load of crap

[dave420]

So much opinion, so little substance. Nice way to fly off the handle like a drama queen. Really good work.

Subscription Software, not now, not ever.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll stick with Windows 7.

Microsoft innovates Apples Notification Center ..

[lippydude]

"Belfiore also showed a new notification center for Windows, which puts a user's notifications in an Action Center menu that can appear along the right side, similar to how notifications work in Apple OS X"

Yosemite's revamped Notification Center

Windows 10 Build 9860 - Notification Center, Animations, PC

Re:im guessing the iterations were something simil

[_Sharp'r_]

It's nice to see that Microsoft is finally ready to get out of beta with their 1.0 release soon, even if some folks probably still don't think they're quite ready for it yet...

Microsoft deactivated my valid Win 7 licence key

[Anonymous Coward]

Fwiw, this happened to me.

I went to a developer conference for Windows 7 that was hsoted by Microsoft in 2009. At the end of it they gave us all a free copy of Windows 7 Pro (x86). I had been using that copy for 5 years when last summer it suddenly stopped working due an "invalid windows key." I ended up just using an MSDN copy a couple months later after doing an unrelated system wipe/upgrade. I just thought it interesting that my valid windows key (which I never shared with anyone and sitll have the original box/sticker for) was one day put on a no-fly list by Microsoft.

Timeo MS et dona ferentes

[Opportunist]

MS is no charity. They want to make money, and they have time and again tried to turn software into a subscription service.

"between to two menus"

[Anonymous Coward]

How American. Illiterate idiots.

Subscription?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bwahahahaha ROFLMFAO I just spit coffee all over my monitor and let out a fart from laughing so hard. Shove it M$, you're going to lose even more customers making it a subscription OS.

What about servers?

[mlts]

I wonder if the server version of Windows 10, likely Windows Server 2015 or 2016, will have a similar update program, or if it will follow the same steps as previous server versions.

Windows Server editions are not as flashy as the client releases... but a single feature or set of features can impact the enterprise in a very large manner. For example, the deduplication ability of Windows Server 2012 and Storage Spaces/ReFS has put the OS near parity with ZFS for defending against bit rot, and the ability to add hard drive space without having to rebuild an array.

If an edition of Windows Server came out with a Hyper-V kernel on par with VMWare in management ability (as in RAM compression/deduplication/ballooning), with real-time drive deduplication. Couple this with Infiniband support and the ability to access another machine's hard drive volumes (in a clustered way, so locking between boxes is preserved), and this would allow a bunch of Windows boxes to not just act as a compute node farm... but also provide SAN-like access and redundancy. More drive space would be easily added by tossing more computers in the array as well as adding disks.

I have a feeling the server version will likely stay the same, with no real incentives to get people from 2012 or 2012R2... mainly because the UI (for the most part) isn't an issue, because one ends up using SCCM/SCOM/SCVMM for most management duties anyway, so the UI on the server doesn't matter as much.

Re:im guessing the iterations were something simil

[HornWumpus]

Few consumers used ME (the dumb ones). The changeover was almost complete. ME was so bad it drove over the holdouts.

NT4.0 was a consumer OS. Windows 2000 sold more copies then ME. Did ME ever get 10% market share?

Hell OS/2 was a consumer OS.

Things were different then.

Maybe Some Clarification

[WheezyJoe]

Ars Technica was present at the announcement, and the Q&A afterward was both insightful and confusing. They clarify the free upgrade to Windows 10 as follows (emphasis mine):

Update: Microsoft fielded some questions about this upgrade in its Q&A session after the event. The company "hasn't decided" how it will handle upgrades from Windows 7 or 8.1 after the first year of Windows 10 availability ends, and it is "working on an update for Windows RT," but doesn't have further details to share.

Update 2: A blog post from Terry Myerson clears up what "Windows as a service" means, though the duration of "the supported lifetime of the device" is still foggy. "This is more than a one-time upgrade," writes Myerson. "Once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device—at no additional charge."

It seems to me Microsoft is still keeping the details close to the vest. So, for my money, the jury is still out for what happens in a year.

Still, as a strategy to get people to move off Windows 7 in a hurry, this is pretty good. You'd only wonder what would have happened to the XP user base if Vista or 7 had been free. On the other hand, this Windows 10 ecosystem is a really big gamble, and Microsoft desperately needs developers to make their platform compete against iOS and Android. Based on that, giving the first taste away free is a pretty ballsy move.

I only hope they don't try to recoup some of that lost revenue by filling Windows 10 with trackware and clickbait, forking out tons of your personal data to Bing servers because, well, that's where the action is.

Re:Maybe Some Clarification

[david_thornley]

You'd only wonder what would have happened to the XP user base if Vista or 7 had been free.

IIRC, Vista had higher system requirements than XP. That was the reason for the Vista Ready fiasco, and why Microsoft sold XP on netbooks after they'd discontinued sales on anything else. Since then, what little I've paid attention to suggests that hardware requirements are steady or decreasing.

Subscribe to an OS? Yah, right.

[msobkow]

Microsoft just jumped the shark. Big time.

There is no way in hell I would "upgrade" from 7 to an OS that requires subscription fees. The only reason I have it instead of Linux on the laptop is to run a couple of database products that I couldn't get going under Debian. If I could get Oracle, Sybase, and SQL Server to run under Debian, there wouldn't be a Windows Virus in this house.

Re:Subscribe to an OS? Yah, right.

[dave420]

Seeing as subscriptions for windows were made up by the author of the linked articles, you can probably calm down, breathe, and unbunch your knickers.

Re:Subscribe to an OS? Yah, right.

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you research how to get Linux running those? A simple Google search turned up many options.

supported lifetime of the device?

[Anonymous Coward]

Supported lifetime of the device? Most devices get 1 yr of support. Is that the "supported lifetime of the device?"

Seems like staying on Win7 until EOL is a better idea.
Especially if Windows Media Centr isn't included.

Heck - microsoft probably considers my 8yr laptop EOS.

Feels like a trap to me.

Microsoft has clarified that this article is 100%

[Cafe Alpha]

wrong. Windows 10 will not be a subscription. Upgrading will be free for the first year and if you upgrade, that's for life. After the first year the regular upgrade fees will be charged any new customers who decide to upgrade.

Will Slashdot correct this article or delete it?

Free for one year

[TuxWithoutPants]

That's right, you get to be our beta tester, free for one year*! (*Users are required to pay for that mistake after one year.)

Free buggy software...

[who_stole_my_kidneys]

Why not just call it Linux.

Re:im guessing the iterations were something simil

[Anonymous Coward]

The goodness of 4 took a while...said while being the time it took display driver writers to get used to writing ring 0 code that didn't shit the bed. Before 4, display drivers were user-level code, which made NT 3.5/3.51 not so hot as a gaming platform, and this was the other thing that 4.0 "fixed".

Trust?

[kmoser]

If they want to "instill a sense of trust", how about writing reliable software? For God's sake, they've had 30 years of practice.

Windows is only free......

[vandamme]

.....if your time is worthless.

The best was Windows XP. Period! Re: Only for the

[Xman73x]

Free with bugs and more problems no thank you slackers!

Spartan :(

[Anonymous Coward]

As if IE wasn't nuisance enough. Now we have to deal with another crappy browser AND IE(as devs)

The "you're holding it wrong" mentality

[tepples]

if the full screen start causes an "additional cognitive burden" on you then to the point where it is a problem, then you must have very limited cognitive capacity to begin with.

Human beings have "very limited cognitive capacity to begin with" especially when most of it is being used by a task. When I'm starting an additional application for a given step of my current task, I don't want any unnecessary distractions, and having everything related to my current task disappear entirely from my field of view is a distraction. It'd be like having the content of the application window disappear when I press Alt+F to open the File menu. Perhaps for a minority of people, the phenomenon of the zone doesn't exist, and you belong to that minority. Otherwise, please cool it with the "you're holding it wrong" snark.

Re:The "you're holding it wrong" mentality

[vux984]

I realize I'm replying to you a second time here; but I this sub-thread sort of illustrates my point quite well.

In addition to windows, I use OSX and *nix. And OSX, most notably doesn't have a start menu. And I don't miss it there. I certainly don't miss it to the point that I feel compelled to find a "MakeOSX work like windows 7 please" start menu utility.

In OSX:
I have my most frequent apps on the dock (essentially pinned apps on the system tray).
I use launchpad if I need to browse and search for an app (its a full scree application launcher tool; essentially windows 8's start screen - but its more limited).

And finally I use spotlight if i know what I want and can just type a few characters (eg. to launch terminal.app on OSX users who don't have it docked, etc)

So when I was first faced with 8.1; my observation was pretty much ok. Last round OSX borrowed from Windows. This round Windows is copying OSX and the start menu is souped up OSX application luancher. Neat.
But what about the other stuff i did with the start menu ?
Access control panels, computer properties (system control panel), shutdown, etc... oh its all rightclick off the start button. Cool.
Start menu pinned apps --> custom tool bar. We've had this capability forever; just rarely needed it before. Solved.
And the search widget? Hmmm. ... ok... yeah I miss that for quick search program launching. I see I can still do it from the start screen, but like you noted the context switch is overkill for that.

What I need is "spotlight" for windows; and it doesn't have one. But lets be honest here, most non-power users don't use spotlight on OSX to launch programs. And while I'd like window to include one, I'm a power user... and just like the built in calculator is worthless and I always install a replacement (in my case SpeedCrunch is the one i like), I'd like a little desktop search / program launcher... So Launchy (which goes back to XP), but there are others such as Executor, and FARR (find and run robot).

And frankly that's what blows my mind. What windows 8 "needs" is Spotlight (or Launchy) built in; yet somehow that one little short coming that only power users even needed turned itself into "Lets stick our heads up our asses and re-create everything that was wrong with the start menu just to get at the one little thing it actually did well back" instead of "Lets just make something does that missing bit well"... oh wait... someone already did... years ago... for XP and they've been updating it ever since. Lets use that.

Re:The "you're holding it wrong" mentality

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck off. I'll snark all I want to. Whachoo gunno do bout it bruh?

When applications combine in a single task

[tepples]

So if the taskbar showed up in the start screen, you would then be OK with it?

That would be an improvement. Even better is if the Start screen could be "snapped" the way every other Modern UI app can, or if the Start screen's tiles showed up over a dimmed version of whatever desktop or Modern UI app I was using the way Dashboard works in OS X. Microsoft could have thought of plenty of ways to preserve context among desktop applications, Modern UI applications, and the Start screen, but it didn't.

I take it you don't watch videos, do graphics/audio work or play games due to the "jarring" context switch then.

A major context switch is fine from one task to another completely separate task, such as the task of watching videos. If I'm watching a video for entertainment, then of course I'll put it in the full screen as the task consists solely of that video. But if I'm reviewing a video or watching an instructional video, I'm going to want to have the ability to take it down into a window so that I can have the video on one side and notes on the other. Same if I'm trying to follow or make a walkthrough in a game. But if I'm doing audio work and I want to quickly pull up a calculator to estimate a piece's BPM, I want the calculator added to my current visuospatial context, not to be yanked away from it.

Opening the start menu requires a refocus just as much as the start screen does unless you somehow navigate it by peripheral vision alone.

Yet while my eyes refocus to put the Start menu in front of my fovea, the previous visual context is streaking by. And once I get there, the fact that the things in my peripheral vision have not changed reminds me of where I am in the task. I can glance back and forth between Start and the task if I still need to check back.

Still wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it is WORSE than some claim, with you being a prime example. Shill away, fanboi.

It's a damned GUI!

[Anonymous Coward]

All y'all need to fuck right off! The beauty of Windows is that it is a GUI, which means I move a mouse and click on stuff I want to use. You people need to quit telling me that I'm doing it wrong. A GUI should not require a keyboard to use for anything other that generic text entry. If I wanted to type all goddamned day long, I'd fire up a no GUI version of Slackware and sit in EMACS all day...

Go Tux GO!

[Anonymous Coward]

I realize you've been playing nothing but Tux Racer for 30 fucking years now, but seriously guy, there are OTHER games out there!

No Subs it seems

[nhat11]

"Correction: Windows 10 will be a one-time upgrade, free for the first year of release, and there will not be a subscription model attached, as this post initially reported."

Re:im guessing the iterations were something simil

[DarthVain]

My favorite explanation:

Windows 9: Because the German market would say "No!"

Also an addendum:
Windows ME: Slowly grinds cats into freezer meat!

I had Windows ME pre-installed on a Dell 4200 back in the day. It lasted a week before I wiped it and replaced it with Windows 2000.

Also you forgot Windows 2000: ...I don't know, a bit more friendly than NT, with Multiprocessor support.

My experience,
Windows Vista: Drivers not included.