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Ask Slashdot: Dealing With Service Providers When You're an IT Pro?
New submitter username440 writes: So, a lot of us will have been here: You have a problem with your ISP, cable TV, cellphone whatever technology and you need to call the provider. Ugh. Foreign call centers, inane fault-finding flowcharts (yes, I have turned it off and on again) and all the other cruft that you have to wade through to get to someone with the knowledge to determine that YOU in fact also have a degree of knowledge and have a real problem.
Recently I had a problem with my ISP, where the ISP-provided "modem" — it's a router — would lock up at least 3 times per day. I had router logs, many hundreds of Google results for that model and release of hardware showing this as a common problem, and simply wanted the ISP to provide a new router (it's a managed device). I replaced the router with a spare Airport Extreme and the problems disappeared, to be replaced with a warning from the ISP that they could't access my managed device" and the connection is provided contingent to using THIER router. However my point was to prove that their router is at fault.
How do you fare when trying to get through to a service provider that they actually DO know something in the field? How do you cut through the frontline support bull*hit and talk to someone who knows what they are doing? Should there be a codeword for this scenario?
Recently I had a problem with my ISP, where the ISP-provided "modem" — it's a router — would lock up at least 3 times per day. I had router logs, many hundreds of Google results for that model and release of hardware showing this as a common problem, and simply wanted the ISP to provide a new router (it's a managed device). I replaced the router with a spare Airport Extreme and the problems disappeared, to be replaced with a warning from the ISP that they could't access my managed device" and the connection is provided contingent to using THIER router. However my point was to prove that their router is at fault.
How do you fare when trying to get through to a service provider that they actually DO know something in the field? How do you cut through the frontline support bull*hit and talk to someone who knows what they are doing? Should there be a codeword for this scenario?
or say "representative"
Shibboleet
Cancel service and reverse the charges.
Sign up with competitor.
Repeat as needed to ensure service.
Just stay on the phone and complain until the problem is solved to your satisfaction, no matter how long it takes.
Just take it in. Speaking for Comcast, I know that I can take any equipment in at any time and get a replacement. Done.
I come here for the love
When they complain about not being able to connect to their managed router suggest that it might be because it is faulty and perhaps they should try sending a replacement device. ðY
codeword is "crap network" and deal with it or roll your own (lol). ISP owner is extended family of regulator or such.
if it's managed it is either on purpose (upgrade -aka- pay more) or some crackers found a way to "use" remote management functionality and ISP doesn't care.
http://xkcd.com/806/
Having been on the other end of that phone at varying times in my life (ranging from consumer tech support, to enterprise support) i try to be as patient and compliant as possible -- though if they are leading me on a goose chase I'll try to be subtle and point them in the proper direction.
Because face it, most people are assholes; especially when something they are paying for, isn't working.
They have to deal with assholes 8+ hours a day, every day, for a really shit wage. I can play nice for an hour or so on phone. =(
you check for this shit BEFORE signing up. Perhaps you might also check the power supply of the device, maybe they shipped a marginal wall-wart with that model.
"Hi, I'd like to terminate my service."
If the first tier is not working for you, ask for the next level. If that fails, contact corporate customer service with details of your problem and how support has failed you, and what you need to have the problem fixed. I once contacted investors relations with a horrible tail of Microsoft support to Microsoft, and they called me back the next day with orders to fix all problems. Of course the tier 3 that called me was far better, than their outsourced support that tried to sell me pirated Windows key instead of activating a valid machine.
Yeah, you know what you're doing. Just like everyone else.
They're not going to magic you a new router over the phone. They'll mail you one and you mail the old one back. Just unplug it, call in, and tell them that it's still plugged in but doesn't power on anymore. Or get in the car and get a new router from the local office today.
The fact that this is a difficult problem for you should tell you a thing or two about whether you deserve special treatment.
I have learned a long time ago that I must have a well working unrestricted and reliable internet connection. To get that you must pay for a business level account. This will usually mean that you talk to more qualified help desk members and even the engineers. Side benefits include static ips, no caps, Higher service priority, etc.
It costs more, but as an IT pro, I consider it a fact of life.
Currently I have a business level account account that I write off 100%. This is the middle tier that runs around 90 a month for 25 down and 5 up. I then have a second consumer grade line @ 120 down and 10 up ( with restricted ports) @ 75 a month. The access point and family crap is connected to that. I then have the consumer connection set up as a second wan on my pfsense firewall.
Expensive, sure until I deduct the business connection as a business expense. This setup also allows me to test things like vpns,etc. This also means that I can experiment with stuff and do not hear the family complain because Netflix is not working.
If you''re a pro and you have the data to support your issue, then escalate to the next level of support until you get to someone who 1) understands what you are saying and the data 2) actually wants to help you solve the problen
https://xkcd.com/806/
do() || do_not();
First level support have a script which their employer tells them to follow. Let them do that or you derail the process.
Sounds like your problem is with the modem.
You have a serious problem, because you are trying to buck the system. The best solution is to pick an ISP that will listen to you and treat you with respect and intelligence. For most customers, who know very little about networking, that may mean the standard frontline support. But a good ISP will listen, recognize that you know what you are talking about, and talk to you at your level. After all, it's in their interest as well as yours.
Where are you located? I'm in England, and for some years I have used an ISP called fast.co.uk (Dark Group). Things very rarely go wrong - and when they do, it's usually the fault of BT, the wholesale provider. But when the problem lies in my setup or theirs, the tech support people are outstandingly helpful.
I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
Restart your PC at least 3 times.
And check the cable between your PC and router.
Shibboleet
This post contains no rudeness or derision of any kind. All arguments are friendly. Terms and exclusions may apply.
I dread wasting hours of my time dealing with "service providers". Unfortunately, companies treat everyone the same, like ID10T's. I dread it so much, I will go days without internet, just so I don't have to deal with them. Lately, I let them threaten me with a giant bill if it is something on my side. I have not been wrong yet..
Just try to get your bill right.
Verizon is the worst, they try their best to put you in a contract, charge you extra fees, charge you for services you don't get.
Then you call them and spend an hour on the phone, they might fix your bill this month, but wait for next month.
They keep saying it's the computer that's screwing up, not them.
How can their computers be so wrong all the time?
You'd think they have good developers writing good code, wouldn't you?
And their mistakes, they *always* overcharge you. *Never* undercharge, ever.
You never ever get anything for free, only pay more for something you never ordered, or never wanted, or some other excuse.
If it were indeed a coding problem would't you think at least part of the time the mistake would go the other way?
They must know something about software I don't know. Maybe "update bill set rate = last_month_rate" is something like "update bill set rate = last_month_rate + random(jigger_bill_upwards_amount)" I'd like them to change the + to a -, wouldn't you?
Usually it is worth it to just have a nice F2F discussion with an employee of the ISP/whatever at a sales booth. Talking face to face is a superior method: It encourages honesty and messages get delivered more clearly.
KISS... tell them your router was struck by lightning and wait for a replacement.
As someone who is also in IT, I imagine that the "normals" who we - collectively as IT people - don't have time to help as we are too busy doing more important things and foist off on these "level 1" script reader support people - those "normals" are probably getting some serious schadenfreude about now. They would probably say, "hah, you get some of your own medicine". Unfortunately we IT folks have to get in line and take it just like the normals do.
And complain to the utility commission. Many states have regulations in place that require the cable company/ISP to give you a rebate when the service doesn't work when its their fault, but you have to request it. Make sure you ask for it.
First, play along. Let the rep run down his flowchart sheet. If that fails, disconnect the device, call them and complain that your device can't connect and seems to be broken.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
In my (limited) experience, when I've had a significant tech problem, my goal is to work with the Tier 1 guy to run quickly through his/her troubleshooting script and to get a hand-off to Tier 2, more expert support. Sometimes that's the level that can authorize on-site repairs, changes to routing tables on their end, etc. The other option, particularly if this isn't a residential/consumer account, is to talk to the sales rep. A good sales rep (not always an oxymoron!) can sometimes open doors for you from the inside.
And for what it's worth: I've had the least expensive business grade service from Cox (Northern VA) for over 10 years, and generally have been very pleased with both the reliability of the service and the support when I have had problems. The only real issue I had was "left hand not talking to right hand" when the residential cable installer was unaware of the business internet connection, and disconnected it. The second time that happened, I ran after the guy's truck, demanded he call his office to confirm I had both services (on separate contracts) and then reconnect the line. That same installer came out on a subsequent call and remembered that incident. (I was a bit distraught, since I was getting ready to leave to go to my mother's house after she had a very nasty fall, and basically said, "I don't need to be dealing with this s**t right now!")
Like most IT "Pros" you can just blame the ISP when explaining to the boss why the Internet went down, instead of admitting to your own incompetence whenever you break something on your shitty litle SOHO firewall.....
but clearly you are not a member of the Freetechnicians, a fraternal organization that traces its origins to secret academic groups in the early days of computer science. Only when you acquire the rank of Master Tech can you receive the mystical codeword that reveals your inner self and acquire the truth you seek. If you wish to become a member you must be invited by the Grand Poobah and acquire the necessary degrees to ascend to Master Tech.
May the Random Number Generator Smile Upon You!
For years I have been dealing with a certain cable provider for internet. I found that ask to have your service disconnected they will transfer you to a 'real' customer service rep.
love is just extroverted narcissism
(or whatever) as often as you need to get to a real person. tell him/her upfront what you have already tried, use some jargon. in my experience, tech support (at least here in austria) has gotten much better - the last few times, i've needed some, i got competent people who skipped the "have you tried turning it off an on again"-bullshit as soon as they realized the were talking to a tech savy person. also, at least with my isps, they have stopped using people that don't know shit and are just working down a list.
You mentioned that you have to have their managed modem. Time Warner has a similar requirement to have a modem that they support. In my case, I was able to buy a basic Motorola DOCCIS 3.0 modem at Target that was on Time Warner's compatibility list. It was less than $100.
Not only does the modem work better, I no longer pay the monthly rental fee.
You are approaching this as a rational, capable human being who understands your issue and wants to speak with another rational, capable human being who understands your problem.
Their system is not designed for this. Adjust your standards accordingly.
Business account? In that case call their business support line and explain...
I despise Comcast for many reasons but in my experience (managing 30 locations on Comcast) they will replace equipment when asked to.
Keep in mind that the customer service person you get when you first call your cable company knows less than nothing. The have a script and some stock questions and answer, and they would likely get into trouble for deviating from those. Telling them that you know more than they do is likely to annoy them and slow down your progress.
I have found that the best way to deal with this is to actually go through all the trouble-shooting steps yourself that you know they'll put you through. For instance, you know how they tell you to reboot your computer and your router? And how they often don't want to stay on the line while you're doing that (or if you're using chat, you'll get disconnected)? If you can say, "I did that step already" to everything they come up with, you'll eventually reach the point in their script where they're SUPPOSED to escalate you to the next level.
This is painful, but there's no way around it. They're not supposed to escalate you immediately. If they did that, the second tier would get overwhelmed anyhow. So they're an important and necessary filter to deal with all the OTHER people calling in who are total morons who don't realize their router isn't plugged in.
It's like dealing with some doctors. If you know what's wrong with you, don't ask for the right drug. Find out what are the classic symptoms to tell them about so that they'll feel smart by writing you the right prescription.
That first-tier, untrained, script-reading, non-English-speaking person on the other end of the line got up at 5:00 pm to be ready to go to work at 8:00 pm (their time), so they can be available on the front lines all night long...and for a wage that is comparable, in their economy, to that of your local McDonald's counter clerk. Have some compassion, and they'll get you through that hellish first tier. Then, when that's exhausted, you've earned the right to ask for escalation to the "next level"...if they even HAVE one (it's usually a transfer back to the U.S. for those higher tiers of erstwhile "Technical Support").
When you're done, find ways to terminate your relationship--if possible (here in rural America, my sole ISP is AT need I say more?). When enough customers start leaving (as I did in leaving AT&T's phone service recently), you'll starting getting solicitous letters begging you to let them help you. Ignore them. These are corrupt corporations, more interested in executive compensation than customer satisfaction. Get used to that, too, because that's why corrupt politicians keep getting paid to write laws that favor those very corporations.
In other words, it's a crappy world out there and revolution appears to be the only way these retarded executives will ever get the message. Hard, but true.
Doesn't work. For the other person to realize you have some actual skills and isn't just an irate customer who wants this escalated into the stratosphere because you're so important, he'd have to have some skills of his own and he usually doesn't - that's why he's first line support in the first place. I won't even go into the laughable idea of a password since every temp worker would have to know it and will give it to every buddy who they owe a favor. Not to mention the many how have IT skills in one area and by hubris thinks they know everything else.
Document, document, document that you've been in contact with customer service several times without a satisfactory resolution, then try taking it up with them in writing. I'm sure you know IT is dividend into the ignorant who know nothing, the recklessly dangerous who know something and truly competent who know exactly what they're doing. Ripping out a managed router - which they probably had reasons to manage - and installing your own just puts you in the "loose cannon" category. They probably suspect that whatever the problem is, you've caused it yourself.
If you're not getting anywhere with a written technical complaint, I'd try a written legal complaint that they're not providing the service you're paying for. They're a castle and have built a moat on purpose since customer support is an expense. They do have people that are far more competent than you and have the power to solve your problem, they're just being shielded from your average support incident. It's more about finding the angle of attack that's productive, making a compelling case is the last 10% after spending 90% of your time trying to make the right person reads it.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Having worked for a provider of computing services for small businesses, the "expert" at home is rarely that. The guy at the ISP needs to run through the checklist, fill out the forms, and follow the procedure. "getting you a new modem" is a process, deal with it. Oftentimes things like "getting you a new modem" can't be done. There's no way to box one up and ship it to you, it has to be delivered by a field tech because that's the distribution channel.
The guy that starts throwing his certifications at you over the phone is 9 times out of 10 completely unfamiliar with what's going on. It's usually the brother-in-law of the owner who "knows computers" and once fixed a PC a decade ago. On that rare occasion you get someone clueful on the phone it can be a blessing and a curse. The blessing is that the user may have correctly diagnosed the problem, the curse being that the checklist still has to be followed to requisition new equipment.
Ask for a new one. Say you're not suing them for the soot in the apartment. Problem solved.
Non-Linux Penguins ?
The only reason I ever call tech support, is because sometimes it's required in order to return the product.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Just play dumb and go through their steps. Being likable, or at the very least not detestable, will usually get you to a resolution faster then being a dbag knowitall.
... like you're dealing with a toddler that you really like because it's yours or its mom is a total MILF or something. No, this is not ordinarily a good way to initiate a conversation with another human being, but in this case it's pretty effective. I've found that in the overwhelming majority of the cases I can get passed up a few levels very quickly.
Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
You tell them it doesn't work. Let them figure it out. If they don't get to it, withhold payments until they do. Find a better provider if they still don't.
While nigh impossible to get a good techy on the call support line, sometimes you do. And sometimes they listen.
When working on the 1 meg modem project, some of us had developer units. Internet goes down. Pattern of blinky LEDs on modem indicates that issue is with line card at other end.
Call tech support, ask them to reseat the line card. Get massive confusion on their end, as I've got access to better diagnostics then they do. And I know what their GUI looks like. And which alarm is active on it at the moment. Eventually, it sinks in with them, that they have someone who actually helped build the product they were supporting.
In the end, they did reseat the card, and my backup internet came back up.
Start with web chat. Speak in clear sentences. Explain the context briefly. Never get angry. Never swear. Gather your evidence before you call. Be consistent.
This way you will telegraph your competence, you tend to bring out competence in those you call, you will be justified in asking to speak to a supervisor if you need to, and the same techniques will work on them.
Code word? Don't be foolish.
My solution has been to dump cable for DSL. I look for the smallest, most local coop that I can. Typically end up paying 200% more fore a connection that's a fraction of cable' speed but at least it ends up being dedicated instead of shared. My main reason for doing this has been a positive experience in terms of the support being small and local. I can call in and get the same person on the phone each time. There's only one technician for my town and after I while we get to know each other, and they get to know that I know what I'm talking about and don't treat me like a rube.
At this point, I've given up trying to help with the problem. I've gone through all the research and diagnosis so many times, with no impact on the phone reps, it's beyond frustrating. I've also demanded to go to the next level of support umpteen jillion times and sometimes it works, but nearly every time, the time spent waiting and going through the problem with two levels of reps isn't worth it.
So at this point, I go through the phone charade.. err script... and make up responses ("Steady green light? No... I see a bright orange light flickering randomly!"), which totally puzzles the rep ("I haven't come across something like that before..."), which almost immediately starts the RMA process.
If the different companies had a way of filtering more tech adept customers, I'd be willing to help out (and I have been for a long time now), but if they aren't investing in that option, neither am I.
There are many code words... "please", "thank you", "yessir" and the name of the guy on the other end of the phone (take a moment to write it down).
One time, after being bumped up to the next level of support, the Charter representative told me I knew what I was talking about (I had correctly diagnosed the problem) and actually asked me if I wanted to work for them.
I told him thanks, but no thanks.
Just as a side note, if you're ever on the phone with an complete asshole, hang up and call right back. Most times you'll get a different person.
"..a warning from the ISP that they could't access my managed device.."
Have you tried power cycling your computer and tried reloading your device managing software?
or
Did you power off your data center and unplug everything to let it reset? Remember to plug everything back in before powering up.
This is mandatory reading: http://macwhiz.com/blog/art-of...
I agree that phone support calls can be infuriating, but sometimes experienced tech guys go off on wild tangents and refuse to step through basic troubleshooting. A case in point: I had a customer recently who contacted me frustrated because some equipment was "broken." When I sent him a short and simple list of tasks to do, his response was, "did that yesterday, didn't work." In the next email, I asked him to check one parameter. He went off on me about "irrelevant mindless support scripts that just waste time" and refused to check, then demanded an RMA. In a subsequent email, he commented that he did actually get around to checking that parameter and "it wasn't activated" -- essentially confirming that he hadn't actually run the initial process, which would have set the "irrelevant" parameter on our hardware.
The RMA'd hardware was fine, although I had to endure several insulting emails from this imbecile claiming that "reputable" companies would have paid for return shipping costs for defective hardware.
The only solution to this problem would be to stand behind the customer while he diligently and correctly worked through a 90 second checklist to confirm that he was an idiot.
The DSLReports forums have special sections for some ISPs where you can talk directly to a senior tech. I was able to get a faulty router replaced super easily there, no phone call required.
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
With those jobs, most of our callers have no clue what their talking about - so we won't believe you anyway.. Or the one the killed me was "My son/brother/neighbor's kid is in IT and he says ..." Even if that person really knows what they're doing, by the time it gets to your ears it's usually wrong.
It's very rare to get a caller who knows what they're talking about - so rare, that it's much more time efficient to ignore every caller's suggestions. Sorry, for the insult. Newbie techs who listen to their callers usually run down the wrong bunny trail and waste a lot of time and money.
My advice is to let them go through their motions and if it takes a long time - like you're without service for days - ask for some sort of compensation. Otherwise, you'll be bashing your head in and getting angry at the "idiocy". Drop their service if they refuse - customer retention may give you something.
And one last thing, I have been on the other end and thinking I knew better, the tech came out and solved the problem and showed how wrong I was. It was something I would never have thought of and it was so stupid, too. Arrrrrg!
Where I work the guy who handles any new Telco contracts makes it clear to the sales rep that no contract will be signed unless a direct number to their enterprise support team is provided. Sometimes they take a little coaxing but we always get the number. It's amazing how quickly a fix can be put in motion...or that you can at least find out that there's been a fiber cut or something...when you get right to people who actually know what they're doing.
I spent a longtime working in a tier 3 tech support call center in my youth. This was data device support before the smartphone explosion. Many times we would receive "warm" transfers from a lower tier of support (in India) complaining that the customer is irate and screaming at them to transfer to tier 3. We would take the calls and the guy on the other side would be so happy he got to skip the bullshit and speak to somebody knowledgeable. 90% of the time we would fix the issue or get new hardware shipped within 5 minutes.
Most of the time the customer had already been on the line dealing with scripts and basic troubleshooting and such for over an hour before they spoke to us, spending away all the patience they had with an Indian rep reading down a list of simple bullet points, only to have the simple problem resolved in minutes when said Indian decided it was time to escalate the issue to us.
Bottom line, if you KNOW there is a higher level of support available, ask for it. There wont be a direct line, but you can get the customer service rep to skip a few tiers and get you right where you need to go if you ask. When they push back just be firm and demand the higher support. You will get there.
What is with this stream of people recently that thinks they are 'pros' or 'experienced' asking questions that a new grad wouldn't ask?
Don't call yourself a pro and then ask a question about basic life that everyone else on the planet has found a way to cope with.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
I find that letting the frontline be aware of your expertise is best not through persuasions but simply having a mature detailed error report. Its like going to a technical conference and finding a buddy to chat with. You know you can have a decent conversation with them not because they have a load of badges (which can be just swag and not actual representation of the skill) but because they have intelligent responses. The knowledge is implied in the answer. When you ask a question you do not expect an answer starting with "The following answer is accurate because my certification is... The answer to your problem is..." You know the answer is good because it is well presented and logically sound.
Then, there is a very important stage of arriving on the same page.
Annoying flowcharts can often be easily bypassed by stating immediately the technical nature of the issue. Do not make generic statements. Start straight away with "router logs show ... ", or "analysing network traffic with tool Z I notice that the router does X and in order to solve this I tried rebooting, reinstalling firmware, adjust setting Y. " Now, the phone technician can rule out several pages of the annoying flowchart questions and being on the same page as you move on to something more meaningful. If the representative is unable to keep up with conversation, he/she will transfer straight away to someone higher up or state that this is beyond their level.
I also had experience where the technician after hearing my initial help request in this manner had a huge sigh of relief on their end saying "oh finally someone who understands this and I do not have to go through basics". Then our tone dropped to a more casual conversation and the experience of getting the problem solved was more pleasant.
I just make up quick stories that sound real which are easier for them to understand and lead to the same outcome rather than explaining the long story which confuses them.
Not joking. If the thing flakes out every few days I'd instead make up a story about how it started acting up after a storm which took out the computer attached to the modem. "We got a new computer, the modem 'seems' to work but flakes out, I think the lightning did something, can we get another one?".
BOOM 1 second later the person "gets" this crazy idea that flaky crap happens after strange high levels of voltage. My story proved the storm wasn't just a guess but rather the cause because it blew up the computer on the desk on the same circuit as the modem. So now in their head they understand this may be a real problem, the customer already also got a brand new computer, so they can't continue saying the computer is at fault either, it's new. The only answer is to give me that new modem I wanted and if I just told you "I'm earning six figures as an IT pro, this thing needs to be replaced", I'd fight you for 45 minutes on the phone and be UNSUCCESSFUL as you "prove me wrong" now that I've said I'm smarter.
So now I make up super "tight" stories that are one or two sentences, sound real, and logically verify all the points I wanted to just "tell you". Sad but true. Just lie.
"May I please speak to someone who speaks English as their native tongue?" Followed by, "I'm sorry but I have a hearing disability and it's real difficult for me to communicate with other than native speakers".
Not a gaurentee but this generally expedites a solution.
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I have a hard time believing you're an 'IT pro' if you didn't know enough to demand your issues be escalated to whatever they call their second-tier support, or at least speak to a supervisor. Also, if you're so unhappy with whoever it is that's providing your connectivity, then why aren't you looking for a different provider, one that doesn't require you to use their equipment, which again if you're an 'IT pro' I'm not sure how it is you can even tolerate not having control of the equipment in your own home?
You're paying them, not the other way around. You have some rights, you just have to not be timid about it. If you can't get reliable service from them for whatever reason that is not your fault you have a right to demand a remedy from them.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
... its simple. Keep jumping through hoops to get escalated to higher level of support. If the support person at any level is too difficult to deal with, demand to speak with a manager. Keep notes of all support and management personal you speak with, and the department in which they work. Eventually you should reach a resolution. The worst case scenario is contacting their corporate office directly for assistance. Good luck!!
In my limited experience with these things, I find that sending an email to support gets a better informed answer than talking to someone on the phone. It's less stressful too. Of course, if you're a "customer on fire", that may be too slow. ('Customer is on fire' was the expression used by one of the managers at a place where I worked for when a customer had an urgent problem.)
In theory, theory and practice are the same; in practice they're different. (Yogi Berra & A. Einstein)
... buy a commercial/business connection. Yes, it is more expensive. Yes, you get what you pay for, and nothing more.
If you're an IT pro, you'll appreciate the US-based support, static IP address, absence of blocked ports, and other services that typically come with business internet connections.
I just go through the call tree just like any unskilled end user. Their system is set up for that and it's faster than trying to escalate (everybody tries that). Once you exhaust their simple triage they'll usually replace the hardware. Don't forget that the front line support probably doesn't undertsand your problem and might in fact be doing front line support for many companies, so it only playing attention to the computer screen.
Extreme example: I had a weird hardware problem with a brand of well known laptops. Showed it to a friend who had worked on the board layout for that laptop -- he got super excited. Best way to get it to him? I went through front line support, including trying to bot it with various key combos held down etc: they verified it was broken and swapped it out -- and my friend was able to flag the S/N and get the machine for analysis. I didn't claim to know anything more than "it doesn't work" and as a result it was quick
BTW he claimed they changed the design as a result but how would I know?
Accept that you're a cog in the "Free Trade" model
Appropriately put in quotations marks. Companies that got their infrastructure funded with public means by lobbying, keeping competition away with bought laws.
Anyway, in my experience you should call customer support at odd hours. The companies can afford to let useless people only work at daytime. It's the people that actually has to make things work that stays after hours or get to work during the weekend.
connection is provided contingent to using THIER router.
Wait, is that even legal?
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I have found myself in the same boat on many occasions, and not just on my own behalf but that of friends and relatives. Sometimes with patience a solution can be reached, threats often lead to dead ends while 'management advice' is sought. But if you have the knowledge and a sufficiently devious mind like me often the quickest way is to use social engineering to achieve your aims.
Now I am not promoting fraud or trying to get something out of them you rightly do not deserve. But if you do lead them to understand by judicious choice of words that in assisting you, either they themselves will gain something or that they will not loose something substantial then that is a good thing.
For those willing a good source of old school research are the two Autobiographical works of Kevin Mitnick.
What I did dealing with a particularly obnoxious ISP was to set up my own monitoring. When calling up I told'em to point a browser to my IP address ("but the Ts&Cs say you can't host services!" 'just take a look already' -- only thing on there was indeed the graph with latency and failure indicators) then I explained that the red bar going to the roof indicates full loss of service. There was a lot of that going on, over the course of the past week or so. That made very very clear just how much they weren't fulfilling the SLA*.
Then they broke their contract by no longer accepting problem reports over the SLA-appointed freephone number, merely playing a tape telling me to "use the website" (useful when the network connection doesn't work) or call a premium number. So I filed all complaints in regular intervals by (still freephone) fax. That was almost entirely automated: Gather incidents, stuff in a table, run through typesetter**, produce faxable image, feed to faxmodem queue. No phone waiting queues, get the story out without arguing, comes with proof of delivery for eventual "yes I did tell you so"-arguing in court.
* "98.5% uptime", residential ADSL, and not reaching SLA. Well done, Alice.
** I use troff since it's adequate for this sort of work, and relatively small and simple.
Unfortunately you might get someone who feels you are in their kingdom and it doesn't matter what you say. For example my brother was having issues with his ISP connectivity. As a networking hardware engineer (his company built backbone T1 switches), he was able to determine that the problem was that the ISP assigned the same IP address to two different modems at the same time. The tech didn't want to believe him and insisted on "testing" his modem. After concluding his test, the tech said there was nothing wrong with his modem. To which my brother responded, "How could you possibly have tested the modem when I unplugged it 10 minutes ago?"
In a personal example, for some reason only my local NBC channel went out. I called the cable company to see what was the problem as it only affected my house. The tech looked up my plan and insisted the problem was that I hadn't paid for the all-digital package. My response was that it was the local channels which were not part of the digital package and that I had been getting the channel for years (after the digital switchover). He actually argued with me that this wasn't true. After 30 minutes of arguing with him l, I had enough and insisted on being passed to a higher tech. As soon as I described the problem to the Level 2 tech, he said that the local office may have changed the signal slightly and I should re-tune all the TVs which solved the problem.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
This is a problem EVERYWHERE. I have a business cable line with a small local ISP. I went back and forth fighting with them for TWO WEEKS because they were blocking various TCP/UDP ports. This is normal practice for residential customers (blocking SMTP for example), but is supposed to be open for business subscribers.
What did I do? I documented everything. Forwarded it to the CEO of the company. I found his contact details via LinkedIn. Needless to say, I was invited in to talk with him and a few others in person, and things were fixed super quick at this point. The reason they invited me in was for a job interview. Only problem is that they were offering crap hours for crap pay doing types of work I didn't want to do. (I'm done being a field technician for customers, I'd rather manage a data center or small campus at this point)
These ask slashdots are really getting fucking stupid.
YOU take control of the conversation. YOU tell them what YOU've done. When they ask you to do Y. YOU say I've done XYZ. Then, if they still dont listen. Ask for Level 2, or Billing so you can cancel. Guess what? Someone will listen then.
Simple as that.
"Hello, my route won't power on, all the lights are off and the fan is not spinning. I've tried plugging it into to several know good outlets. Please send me a replacement ASAP."
I do this all the time with the likes of Cisco and other scumbags when the resolution is always a cross shiped whole unit replacement. No point in letting someone drag you through the mud for hours. Not as good as Shibboleet, but close.
It is actually very easy to get bumped up to a real agent that actually knows something - just swear at the first agent. You'll get bumped up the chain immediately. Sometimes you need to swear at two people, but I never had to swear at the third one too.
The tech support script is there for one reason -- to let the higher-tier support staff who have actual problem solving skills work on actual problems without wasting their time on people who need just need to be told that the "any" key isn't literally a key. It does this by letting people of lesser ability handle the easy stuff and -- this is key -- letting the upper tier know that the easy stuff has already been checked.
"But I've already checked the easy stuff. It's plugged in, I have tcpdump output, I can prove that it's an actual problem!" Maybe, maybe not. Think of it as an input validation problem. A web server should never implicitly trust what the browser sends, right? It's poor practice to let the browser do all the input validation and blindly accept it. The script is the tech support input validation step. You say you're an advanced user who's tried everything easy, but how does tech support know that? Just like 90% of drivers think they're above average, 90% of geeks think they're above making stupid mistakes. The very fact that you're quibbling over the terminology of "modem" vs. "router" makes be believe that you're someone with an over-inflated sense of their own abilities.
Let them run through the script. It's tedious. It's frustrating. But it does tend to check the stupid "is it plugged in stuff" that even the most tech-savvy can sometimes forget. When they ask you to do stuff, actually do it. Don't just say, "Okay, I'm rebooting now" while you sit and play Cookie Clicker for five minutes pretending to do it because you "know" that's not the problem. You might get surprised and find that your problem isn't as exotic and unique as you thought it was, or that your list of "everything" to try doesn't really include everything.(*)
And if you do get to the end of the script without fixing it, the upper tier support person will have reasonable confidence that you do indeed have a non-trivial problem.
(*) Personal anecdote: My wife's laptop had a flaky USB port. After checking all the easy stuff I got on the phone with tech support. "Turn off the computer, remove the battery, and hold the power button down for 60 seconds." What? That's ridiculous! There's no way that'll fix it! But I did it anyway. Guess what? It started working, and has worked flawlessly since then.
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
"Tell me, Mr Anderson... What use is web chat when you are *unable to connect*"
"Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
Just fail step one of their flowchart.
Unhook the thing so they cant ping it.
"Hey Tech support? When I plug in my router no lights come on. I know the outlet works because I plug a lamp in there and it works"
Can't really trouble shoot past that. Send a new one.
After they put the order in hook your router and airport back up and wait for the replacement.
I have to return some videotapes...
As a customer and as an IT manager... I confirm 90% of help desk people do not know anything. And they are often openly hostile as you calling telling them the problem. Go figure. They also have strong instructions not to escalate the problem because there are to many morons out there. So the better strategy is to go through the motions, and describe quite well the symptoms, even exaggerating them if need be. If that solves the problem, it is easier. If you cannot solve the problem this way, an email describing everything in detail would be the next step. As for the ISP making/forcing you to use their own equipment to monitor, well install a bridge on front of it, and use your own. As an example at home I am using bridging home and providing my own setup. Last time I had problems with the cable line, I measured the signal, and knowing it was already out of working spec, I called them and told them the symptoms I knew they would be there. I knew I would have a lot of problems explaining why I knew the signals were out of sync, and furthermore explaining how I was supposed to measure them if the equipment is protected. At the end of the day they just called me in a couple of hours to mention the problem was further up in the distribution side, and they would fix it up without coming to my home.
Firstly, for an IT professional, you are kinda low on details. I am going to assume, you want better wifi.
In five easy steps:
1. Turn of NAT, DHCP and WLAN from your provided router
2. Put the provided router in bridge mode
3. Attach AirPort Express (or any other new router)
4. ???
5. Profit!
The problem you are facing, is that your provided router probably does too much work (in layman's terms) and heats up. Then it starts to break up.
Instead of mindless turning on and off again, why don't you just fix the problem and be done with it? Solutions, not more problems.
Being put right through to second level wastes valuable time for that second level person that a first level person could have avoided. Simple collection of who are you, what is your IP, are you at your computer right now, what kind of connection do you have and what is the actual problem. First tier usually also has means of tying that information to the information we have about you, so that phase can be short and sweet like just mentioning a customer number, but more often it's not. Yes, most of the scripts are stupid, so I'd agree most of those can be skipped, not the data collection part though.
You may succeed in bullying first level into contacting second level directly, but with what I do at work (second and third level support) all I'd do was send you right back to first level to get that data collected. I can't help you unless I even have the slightest idea what your problem is, where you are, or if it's something stupid (like you canceled, believe me, it happens) and I don't intend to use part of my work time to provide first level support. So don't waste my time, or the only thing you accomplish is that we can see your "I want to speak to your manager" haircut through the phone.
Let me add that my "told you so" might hurt a bit more than a first level "Ah, so it works now? Great!" :)
PS: as for non-managed routers, there are reasons for us not doing that (being in a security-sensitive environment with non-computer-savvy customers is one), but I can't see why eg. Comcast isn't doing it. My home ISP gives me an ethernet port in the fiber box where I can connect any old box that speaks DHCP, so maybe I'm privileged. On the other hand I still don't get native IPv6 at home, so probably not :P
Stop buying consumer class when you ought to be paying for business class. You took the lower price. You got the lower service. Big surprise.
basically
Forehead MEET BRICK WALL
also buy a 12 pack( or 2 6pack) of GOOD bear before hand , you will NEED IT after
"I don't pitch OpenSUSE Linux to my friends, i let Microsoft do it for me
just get a new ISP.
Been there; learned support people don't really appreciate being walked through packet dumps and such - the reply was among the lines of 'Have you tried turning it on and off again?', so after an hour or so I just gave up. So I unplugged the modem, called back: "Hey my internet doesn't work!' - 'Oh I can't see anything, can you try setting the modem?' 'Sure' 'Hmm still don't see anything, I suggest a new modem' and when I got one, the problem disappeared. This call only took 5 minutes... Bottom line: just follow their protocol and you'll be fine - I definitely check that the problem isn't at my side, and when I know it isn't, I'll just call their support and let them walk through their procedures. They aren't interested in technical analysis at all, so don't bother them with it.
I always hate when I have to deal with "technical support", well, with one odd exception: our accounting co. jobcost.com rocks, but I digress.
Today Comcast wins for dollars to speed (in this area). Fortunately my technical support contact with them has been minimal so far -- it's been working nicely actually (!?). Knock on wood.
I remember having a 768/384 DSL connection w/ at&t (then Ameritech here) -- and one day my PTP connection speed changed to 384/128. No reason or billing adjustment. Should have been 768/384 -- their tech support asked me if somebody else in the neighborhood god DSL and that's maybe why my speed "seems slower". Disconnect. Right there. They lost my telco / backup ISDN to VoIP that day too...
Be polite and in my experience I'm vetting how knowledgeable a person is that I'm talking to... Don't talk down to them, but be politely forceful in your request. They'll either "get it" or pass you up to someone who does.
Be prepared to DISCONNECT when necessary. I usually make that the second call once I realize I'm not "getting through" on the first one. Have secondary service setup and in place to mitigate disruptions.
Ugh. Technical support. I AM IT
Deal with it like everybody else.
I find that with a little prior planning , I can jump through a lot of business BS . I keep my original contracts, I search for the name and home address of any officer in the local office. Hit them with a summons to small claims court, individuals name only skip suing a big corp go after the local boss . Six times I have been contacted before the court date, all by corporate lawyers. I tell them that it is worth the cost of a summons ($25 in 1980's) to put their lack of service in the public record. Amazingly my unfixable problem is solved, and five were willing to pay all court costs up front to drop suit, 6th payed after we hit court. I love Small claims court.
Barnett Bank "lost" a $3,800 check, ten hours over five days on phone to 20 dept's nothing: one summons and suddenly everything fixed.
AT&T demanded I pay over $8000 in business service for a business that I had no connection to other than same name. Three weeks going in circles-one summons and they suddenly understood their mistake.
City of Palm Bay water dept wanted me to pay $400 for water for one month. I looked at the meter itself, water was spraying out of the meter face. Called and told them about the leak, they said leaks are my problem ( per contract only downstream of meter). Two days before they were to shut off my water I hit them with summons . next morning they replaced meter and waived all past due bill, they refused to make up court costs until we were in front of the judge.
AT&T added a stranger to my family plan with out my consent , racked up thousands in data and International roaming . They ended up paying me $4700.
Comcast shitty service replaced 25 year old cables ect
Doctors office never provided the service charged to my insurance paid me $$$$ to drop suit ect
UPS smashed hell out of well packed package said I should have packed better , paid $1100 and court costs ect
Just get their device to die so they replace with with their newer better model..
Be calm, be polite, remember your 'win condition' : obtain a new modem for the least amount of time on the phone.
Hi, I have a technical problem.
I understand your policy is I won't be able to speak with a manager unless I ask three times.
So now I am going to ask three times to speak with a manager:
I would like to speak with a manager
I would like to speak with a manager
I would like to speak with a manager.
Then tell the manager your problem.
Playing dumb has been my personal strategy yet I have no reference to judge effectiveness against other strategies.
You are rarely helped by acting like a know-it-all. The goal I have found is not to help, inform or impress but to get the person on the other end of the line to just give a shit about helping you. Sometimes being stupid is better for you than having the clueless parts changer and "rebooter and chief" you talk to or they send out be offended when you go talking over their head or attempt to do their job for them. Sometimes if the tech they send out is not a total zombie they will see equipment racks and *ask* intelligent questions at which time it is safe to blab.
I intentionally lie about what I know, avoid argument and work hard to contain laughter especially during onsite visits. I will follow all even stupid instructions unless what I'm being told to do is outright destructive or wastes too much time.
Have also experienced the flip side of this first hand. Sometimes people who think they know something turn out in reality to know a lot less. I'm an Oracle without cookies in a couple niche domains where all who challenge me lose yet the same people keep coming back for more with the same hubris filled retorts undaunted and unaffected by previous lapses of understanding and judgment. What is particularly amusing and annoying are the guys who restate the original question thinking I must not have understood what they were asking in the first place. At all costs don't be this person.
You worked that out from one incident involving a cleaning lady?
Get a profession/business account. If you want to act like an IT pro, pay for the type of service that IT Pros get. You will get someone on the line who isn't an idiot. And, you will get service guarantees. Costs 20-100% more. But, if your sanity is important it is worth it. Most ISPs have a different division for professional accounts. EG, Verizon/Time-Warner both have business services. You want cheap service? You get cheap call center support.
Here's to losing my Karma Bonus again....
If you think you need porfoessional support, pay for it.
- http://www.milkme.co.uk
Telling them it "Smells like smoke", "It's hot enough to burn myself on" or since I used to work printer support "It's leaking ink/grease/something".
Will skip a lot of the BS and get you a replacement asap, since they don't want to deal with the legal fallout of it setting your house on fire (or staining a new couch) while troubleshooting. At one fruit themed computer call center we had a "Red Flag Word List" in which if a customer used any of the words, it got transferred immediately to Tier 2. They were all words like Smoke, fire, melting, sparks, swelling (batteries).
... people have walked in on me doing this with vendors:
Them: OK, now pry the back off and unseat the doohickey and re-tighten all screws.
Me: [Shake desk drawer] OK, done.
Them: What are the new indications?
Me: [On speakerphone getting work done] Same thing.
Them: [Eventually] Looks like the thing you told us about half an hour ago is defective. We will send you a new one.
Me: You're a genius.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
When you call walk them through the process, list every thing you have tried and the results, When you get through ask them to escalate it.
As a 20 year IT Pro, I have on occasion found that I too have missed something simple that fixed the problem during this process. But normally I don't miss anything.
It also doesn't hurt that I have the direct phone number of the head network engineer for my ISP.
"GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
the "terminate contract" line.
I start all my calls with them saying that I want off, I'm moving on (I have been with the same provider for almost 20 years).
Then I just let them try to "conquer me back".
Mind you, I keep it calm and polite.
Works every time, that team is the only one with powers to get things moving at my provider.
And sometimes, I even get something extra (discount or more mobile data allowance, for example).
Also turn off your antivirus software. Sometimes it gets in the way of the Internet.
</sarcasm>
Uhhhhh . . . I thought the same way you do. That's the only time I was wrong calling ISP tech support. I called to say that the new WiFi USB key (this was a few years ago) that I'd bought for my mother would get recognized, would connect and get DHCP but nothing more, so the problem was obviously on the router end. The first thing the tech asked was for me to turn off the antivirus. I fudged and said sure, ok... it's off... still doesn't work. The tech then quickly walked me through a series of lengthy MS-prefixed DOS-mode commands, and hey presto, no more problem. I asked what he'd done. He said he'd turned off my anti-virus. The driver for the big-name USB WiFi key wasn't signed, so Norton interfered with it. I told my Ma to buy another antivirus. The tech support was good (this was the guy who first picked up the phone), but sorry for most of you, it wasn't in the U.S. (it was French Orange). They'd got better since the day they told a friend of mine to restart Internet Explorer after he told them he'd diagnosed a failed route in their peering exchange.
And that is not the time when I installed a totally clean computer for my aunt who'd provided me with original CDs of Windows, Norton, et al., connected it to the Net, and the first popup was "Norton has detected that your system is trying to access the Internet, recommend Accept". I wondered what it could be, so I clicked for the details, and the packet in question was "incoming to port 135" from an IP somewhere in Africa.
I can tell you if you have CenturyLink and you get "call-a-me-Bob" when you call up, ask them to transfer you to the US staff. they do so, and you talk to nice folks in Boise who can shift off the script once they know you have done all the tier-zero stuff already.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
I got frustrated and four-lettered once with DEC, and they told me clean it up or they would disconnect. any outfit that has to be cuddly and always chirpy because of Federal contracts or equal rights regulations has the right to do the same.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
to hear the sirens and the SWAT team's bullhorns
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Hi, I'm an enraged customer, I'd like to speak to your escalations manager.
It helps to say that in the kindest possible tone, too.
"Escalation manager" is the normal term for someone who talks to "enraged customers". It may or may not be what your ISP uses, but the two phrases in the same sentence tend to get you to the right manager.
--dave
Did escalations for a while at Sun, some of the problems were real fun. Others weren't.
davecb@spamcop.net
Shared Services Canada when you are working for the Canadian Govt....
Confused, slow, disorganized bureaucrats. Solving the problem is not the 1st priority. Making sure that their asses are covered #1 priority. #2 is passing it on to another group....
the microwave will do nicely. it kills DTV pass cards in 5 seconds. kills CDs in 7. most modems are slightly shielded, give it 20, unless you hear a large CRACK! in which case, you also did the microwave. electronics make smaller pops and crackles.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Maybe the question the OP should be asking is; as an IT pro how can he help his smart customers bypass tier 1 support.....
http://gethuman.com/ will often give you a decent number to get to an actual human in a lot of organizations. Biased to the US at the moment. The person on the AT&T number has actually asked in puzzlement 'how did you get this number?'. I have no connection with the site, but have had the occasional success with it.
I forget the name of the Supreme Court ruling, keep thinking it's Code-a-phone but that's not right...but that's the core of the "bring your own stuff" telecommunications industry. the Bell System didn't let you hook your stuff up to THEIR precious network. you had to lease (never buy, that was bad business) their terminations, whether they said Western Electric or something else on the nameplate. well, an answering machine outfit sued... persisted... and WON. in our area, primarily Comcast and CenturyLink (formerly Qwest formerly US West, formerly Northwestern Bell, a member of the Bell System) you can go to Best Buy or wherever, get your own CPE, and hook it up. you will need to have the credentials set, but there y'go.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
The Three Laws of Telecoms:
1. They will Overpromise
2. They will Underdeliver
3. They will Overcharge
These have proven true over and over and over again year after year. Telecom providers, be it phone or data are the seedy underbelly of the IT industry.
Corporatism != Free Market
Make sure you get a receipt! It's no fun getting billed for gear you've returned!
And make sure if you buy your own gear that you get a receipt, both the one for your gear and from the ISP for whatever gear you turn in/don't get. I once had Comcast try to bill me for not returning a modem I had never rented.
Take it as an opportunity to elevate their knowledge and treat them with respect. The wost-case is that you help someone that needs it. Usually they recognize quickly that they're out of their element and move you on to the next level, or otherwise shortcut the process to get you whatever you're asking for. Either way something good is accomplished and you might have gained a new and useful contact within the organization.
To me it seems like the author is just impatient; if I were to expand on that, I'd also suggest they think they're better than the T1 and as such deserve better treatment.
Impatience does not imply you are better than the person who is wasting your time. It just implies that they're wasting your time.
The real problem I think many of us (myself included) have with calling in for tech support is a near immediate awareness that the guy on the other end of the line knows far less about our jobs and our situation at hand than we do.
I'm only human, and I can see making a false assumption that a recurring problem stems from our service provider, when in reality, I overlooked some unexpected issue (like the cleaning people powering off our gear at night).
Still, I'd just feel a lot better about things if I knew I was talking on the phone with someone in "tech support" who was clearly a fellow tech. Either that, or just give me someone with the ability to pass along the details of my issue or question to someone knowledgeable, so they can quickly return with a useful response. (I recently had such a situation when asking for help via chat support with someone at Code42, makers of the CrashPlan backup software. As soon as I asked my first question, I could tell the support rep I was typing to wasn't that knowledgeable - BUT he was friendly AND clearly had instant access to people above him who DID know the answers. Each of my questions generated a brief pause, a "Let me check on that with my colleagues...." type of reply, and then a useful response. Great! That works for me!)
In general though, I think any calls about supposedly defective hardware should be handled, the first time around, with an offer to send out a replacement unit. The cost of keeping a customer on the line with someone to do all the troubleshooting steps doesn't seem to be worth it to me. They're calling because they WANT a replacement piece of gear. And if all it proves, once they install it, is that they were dead wrong and the gear is fine? So what! That's a very useful outcome too.
I just use their script when I call.
I am having intermittent internet issues. My laptop is now directly connected to the modem, all the lights are solid green (or whatever they are). I unplugged the modem for both 30 sec and again for 10 minutes. When the network is down, I run ipconfig and I still have an address. Can you check the modem logs to see if there is any issue on your end?
I am calm, but direct.
The problem is the support people don't even read. Here is my dialog:
user has entered room ...that should read "under the custom security settings"
analyst Maricel has entered room
Maricel
2:27PM
Hello, Thank you for contacting Comcast Live Chat Support. My name is Maricel. Please give me one moment to review your information.
Maricel
2:27PM
Hi! I hope you are doing well. I would be more than happy to assist you with your concern today.
ME
2:27PM
My Issue: My TG862G router does not block incoming ICMP packets when set under the customer security settings. It does block outgoing ICMP packets, which is the exact opposite of what I want.
Maricel
2:28PM
Hello there! How is your day so far?
ME
2:28PM
ME
2:29PM
my day is going ok - was trying to better secure my home network.
Maricel
2:29PM
I am glad to know that.
Maricel
2:29PM
Just to double check that we are on the same page, you are experiencing issues with your wireless connection. Is that correct?
No where had I mentioned wireless, support wasn't listening/reading at all. The dialog went on, easily as painful. Ultimately I was given 2 new phone numbers to all, one was disconnected and the other went back to the standard call tree.
It's broken already; you're technically savvy; you should know what to do. I wouldn't put 120 AC on the DC modem/router power in plug, but you know where I'm going; just end its suffering; it's already dying. Maybe a bad firmware flash, or whatever... figure it out, so there is no fireworks involved. Then get it replaced. Repeat if required. It may be a rather nefarious way of getting things done, but... the end in this case justifies the means. You'll be a happy camper, the ISP will get to keep their customer. Why in the first place you wouldn't have your own modem? DSL modems go for $30 - $40 recently. I've seen cable ones dropping in price too. Buy your own separate router when you're at it. Unless you're company does not allow external modems.
I had a job training software, and business applications for end users. Part of this involved one on one training with users that wanted to know how to perform specific tasks.
I remember going to one lady who wanted to know how to perform a specific task to get an outcome she was struggling with. I found the issue not to be her lack of knowledge, but some missing packages. As systems were locked down, I had to call in to the internal HelpDesk and raise a ticket to get the necessary packages installed on her machine.
Upon giving the exact details of what was missing and what would be needed I got the response "Can I pass you to my colleague who knows about computers?"
. .
Get on your cell phone and start tweeting how awful your ISP and their tech support is... without sounding like a rant. Update your facebook to let everyone know you may not be able to keep up on your wall because your ISP is flakey. Get on LinkedIn and start a thread asking if anyone knows of a RELIABLE, PROFESSIONAL quality ISP in your area because it has become clear that as a professional you just can't live with the mickey mouse bullshit of XYZ anymore. Do this and I guarantee that the best and most empowered tech support agents your ISP has got will be calling you within an hour.
There is a technical solution
I have Verizon FiOS. They require their router for video on demand, program guide, etc. My solution -
1. Force release DHCP on their router.
2. Clone MAC on my pfsense box.
3. Reacquire DHCP via pfsense
4. Create a DMZ with a separate interface that hosts their router (without any connection to my internal network, but open access to the internet).
5. Connect the DVR box to their router
Everything works. Everyone is happy. Their router thinks it's doing the routing. The DVR box thinks their router is its bridge to the WAN and lets me use VoD.
Took me a few days to figure it out
The first time an ISP told me I couldn't use my own equipment, I would drop them in about 5 seconds.
Lots of people who think they know what they're doing, don't.
I support a gizmo that works, in part, with an internet connection. I know what the hell I'm doing with it. I get constantly get customers who refuse to do troubleshooting steps like 'turn off your modem, then router, then the modem on, then router on' because 'I am an IT professional and know what I'm doing, and my equipment is not the problem.'
So they refuse to do the troubleshooting that will fix the problem. So I'm forced to schedule a technician.
And then I follow up on the account, see the tech's notes 'Turned customer's router off and on. Issue resolved.' and then I bill them a great big stack of money for an unnecessary service call.
Strangely enough, the next time they call in, they do what we ask and get their problem fixed right away over the phone.
Intermittent faults are impossible to handle with flow-chart based level 1 support. The only way out I know it to make the problem permanent.
In the router case, make sure its power supply dies (I am sure you will figure smart ways to accomplish this),report the permanent problem, and you will have your router replaced.
I had a weird experience many years ago when I was upgrading my one way cable modem to the new ADSL.
At the time, a cable modem just received and you needed an analog modem for the uplink.
AT&T was charging $300 just to do the install
AT&T sent out this guy who insisted to install a splitter outside the house and run a seperate line from the splitter to the modem, he used a 'special' type of wire 'he said' that was red.
So I am watching this guy and it is apparent that this was one of their best phone guys as he did an excellent job installing the wires.
He gets to the computer and starts following some script installing a bunch of useless crap and then a popup shows asking for the Windows install disk which was not available.
The guy puttered around for about ten minutes and I could see he was lost.
He tells me he need to get some tools from his van and then leaves, after about ten minutes I started wondering where he went and looked and the guy had split!?!
The guy just took off leaving his tools and all his paperwork from mine and several other jobs.
So I check my computer and find that my computer will no longer boot.
I boot into safe mode and removed the crap he installed, I had to remove a bunch of registry entries too that were preventing the computer from booting.
So I call up AT&T to complete the installation, no problem, it took 10 minutes after I got my computer to boot again
The modem is working great, I am happy and felt sorry for this guy as is was apparent that AT&T just picked their best phone guys and sent them out to do these ADSL installs with zero training.
3 days later the guy showed up to get his tools and paperwork.
A month later I get a bill from AT&T for $1000 bux that was not itemized, it was clear that they double billed me for the ADSL install and internet service.
It turned out the installer had already started the setup with AT&T and when I finished the job AT&T opened another account.
I called them and asked for them to fix it and an itemized bill so I could at least pay for the phone service.
I never did get an itemized bill, they just kept sending me a copy of the exact same bill
So no they turn off my phone and the internet for non-payment even though I never got a corrected bill
This goes back and forth for month until I just said, fuck you
Of course they reported me to all the credit services but I am one of those weird guys that has never owned a credit card or got a loan of any type so it did not bother me a bit
For several years they hounded me and each time I would explain what happened but they never fixed to problem so I never paid the bill.
After about 15 years some collection company tracked me down and tried to collect and I explained my story to him
So the credit guy chops off one of the installation charges and internet bills and say just pay this amount
I told him there is no way I will pay the installation charge for 1 month of internet service
He drops the bill to just 1 month of internet service and the phone bill but tells me I must get a certified check for the balance and send it to some lawyer in Ohio.
I told the guy to forget it, unless I could just go to a payment center and pay it I had no interest in dealing with it
To this day it is still on my credit report, AT&T or whoever the hell they are now keeps putting it back and I have never bought or used any AT&T service or product since or any of the baby bell companies
Fuck them
I use an ISP with an Australia call centre, with call centre staff who actually have the latitude and training to recognise that I know what I'm talking about and go off-script.
And yes, I do pay a premium for that.
... anyone who identified themselves as such would cause me to reach for the kid gloves. Support level 0.
I'm a long time computer techie. Since 1969. I was involved in networking before there was a web. Long before, like mid '70s and accidently found out how to short circuit the script readers. I live on the outskirts of Atlanta and only have VOIP service for my phones. My cell phone doesn't work at home so when I found I had an ISP (cable) problem that didn't go away, I drove up the road 4 miles where I can get a signal. When the agent said things like "unplug your router" I said I can't do that. He almost immediately transferred me to someone that was, if not a network engineer, did know enough to help me convince them they had a problem. Back when I had a land line I'd spend hours with an modem that obviously wasn't connecting trying to convince the script readers that it didn't make a hoot of difference what I did to my router if the modem lights told me there wasn't a signal coming from the cable company.
First, research the company to find out the name of one or more of the senior officers of the company.
Call in, mention that you're friends with so and so, and how you'd mentioned the problem you were having at a recent gathering at so and so's home. Indicate that you are to be escalated to the most senior engineer the company has. Tell them if they don't, that you'll be having a serious conversation with so and so about terminating you and your manager's positions within 24 hours.
Wait while they transfer the call immediately to someone who a) speaks native english and b) doesn't need a script to figure out what the problems are.
I have a lot luck going through the companies facebook page. For example, I had an problem where I was losing over 25% of my packets to their gateway. I posted this on their facebook page along with a screen shot. A few hours later a real technician contacted me. I also had a strange issues with my cable companies clear QAM channels. the channel had the same # but was now broadcasting QVC instead of NBC. I knew explaining this to some 1st level tech would be pointless. So I posted it on their FB page, where another user confirmed it. The issue was quickly resolved publicly. I assume the person who manages the Facebook page has the ability to skip level one and get an answer. Also, by using their public page, It helps shame them into working quickly for large high level issues. It's probably not going to work if you have a billing question or a company that does not care about public perception.
Lie. Call the 1st level support and tell them it won't power up. Tell them you've tried 3 different plugs and connected it straight into the wall, otherwise they'll have you do it. Then they are out of options and the only thing they can do is send you another one. If someone comes to install the new one and sees the old one powers up, shrug your shoulders and say the spouse put the call in.
Ninjas don't carry tic tacs
Consider yourself lucky not to have to deal with this kind of people and process internally in your own company. I am working for a very large company with a lot of bureaucratic process and even if I can pinpoint down the problem to save time there is absolutely nothing to do. You can tell them where the problem is and they staff responsible for my own laptop will spend one week investigating unrelated things and asking pointless questions about a device that has nothing to do with the problem. I have such a problem that is open for about 2 months and still unresolved while it clearly needs a firmware update, even recommended by the manufacturer and I have no privileges to do it myself and the refuses to update any firmware. Instead, they suggested to replace the laptop by a older model.
Achille Talon
Hop!
Take ISP's modem / router, place on top of microwave oven (I *know* you have long cables, if necessary, sitting around somewhere). Fill a very large bowl with water and heat on low for 20 minutes.** Do not touch bowl of water for at least an hour.** Take portable AM radio, tune to a station low on the dial, and place on top of modem / router. Call tech support.
... this that have some (better or worse) grasp of the IT side of things, but have zero understanding of processes on the service provider side. These people think that doing some things are easy, when they are not. Yes, it may be just one command on a device, but it may come with several people involved, 10 forms to fill out, etc. and that makes it hard for the service provider to do.
Now, I am not defending this, but that is the reality the support member you are pestering has to face.
Side note: If you do not understand the bureaucratic dysfunctionality routinely present in any large company then you are not an "IT pro".
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
IT people don't call tech support, we fix our own routers. If such a basic device is beyond your skill set then you really have no place calling yourself an "IT Professional".
The only time I called my ISP in the past 10 years was to upgrade my account, and twice for billing issues.
An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
Best way, hope for the best techie, and answer any question as accurately and briefly as possible. (lie if you have to)
They will notice, and you don't have to do the noobie hoops.
Src, yeah we've all had that job
Tool is called a pole lopper and it works great when comcast refused to fix a problem cased by wind damage to their equipment six months after the wind storm. Called qwest and ordered a fax line. After qwest fixed the bridge taps and gave me a clean line for a fax machine, I switched the dsl to it. Same copper works for 40mg now.
(former isp admin for DSL roll-out in the 90's)
*"Cogito Ergo Liberalis"*
After a rather troublesome issue with my internet service and a back and forth episode with my ISP's Tier 1 TS, I was transferred to T2 where I was able to get my issue resolved nearly immediately. The rep gave me the T2 direct number so that "You won't need to fuss with all that pre-recorded bs again, since by the time you've called, you have already done everything it tells you to do and more in some cases."
After a number of years and at least one move, I'm still with the same ISP, but have lost the T2 diect number. Normally I'll just patiently grind through the prompts like it's a bad MMO if I need to call TS these days.
Is having a common word or phrase, that call centers are aware of, that triggers an escalation or transfer, a good thing, rather than having to give detailed personal knowledge just to get the transfer? Any suggestions? How about "Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster"?
You deal with the service reps just like any other service. This is not the time to show off and demonstrate your ultimate knowledge. You can say anything about how you checked your router or whatever, in a nice way. The worst way to get someone's help is stating or implying they are imbeciles. Better to treat them with respect.
Keep in mind, those reps are following some scripts, and have certain rules and guidelines they need to follow - even the tech savvy ones. You are not just dealing with a rep, you are essentially dealing with an entire company. If their procedures are bad, blame the company and not the rep - and your way to protest is to switch provider.
Plus, IT nerds may not always be so superior and better-knowing that we some times would like to think. I have had my share of ISP problems for a wireless technology, and every single time "have you booted your antenna" is part of the conversation. Eventually I stopped bothering and started replying that "no, and that was never the solution when I had problems in the past, so there must be a problem with the ISP side of the network". Until a couple months back when that was exactly what magically fixed the problem.
Make sure to get something written in a support request by email or some ticketing system, so you have a log which you can point to later when the process drags on, so you can show when you first reported the problem, what solutions have already been tested, and how the problem persists - updating the ticket yourself if none of the reps does it. This makes it easier to have later conversations, up to the point where you demand money back. This then becomes your proof, rather than just vaguely referring to various phone calls - and is what eventually may get you through the various layers of people and processes designed to prevent you from talking to someone who is actually in charge of things.
So, when are mobile phone companies going to offer phones with hardware switches to allow the turning on and off the input devices (camera, microphone, gyro, compass, gps) to stop deaths like Steve Jobs occurring? He made a iMac, with an always on microphone. Nuff said.
http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...
LMAO!
APK
P.S.=> Don't you have ANYTHING BETTER to do than be an online troll? Why don't YOU create something useful that gives people more online speed, security, reliability, & even anonymity instead of being a jerk?? Oh, that's right - you PROJECT WHY YOU CAN'T IN YOUR "bs registered 'luser'" name here - you can only 'think it' (evidently not that well like a PHB might, & anyone can come up with a 10,000 ft. view idea asshole) but YOU CANNOT DO IT since you don't HAVE what it takes (skill & knowledge)... apk
Most of the Service Desk Agents staffing first tier support are not technical.
Be nice, answer their questions and ask polite to be transferred to 2-Tier support on the end of the script.
1-Tier support tends to be less cooperative when you're starting to yell and accusing them for lack of knowledge. Treat them as human beings, but let them understand you know what you are talking about. Be as cooperative as required from the service desk.You get much more...
Otherwise there is the risk you do not get proper support.
1-Tier, 2-Tier, 3-Tier, Incident Manager, Problem Manager: been there, done that.
If you don't get to 2-Tier support or a solution, open a complaint ticket. Any mature organization accepts complaints through the service desk and will handle them as it is a regulated procedure.
Real life:
Me: My ADSL modem doesn't synchronize anymore. I've already checked and double-checked cabling and made a hardware reset.
SD: Funny I see you're modem connected.
Me: Hmmmm... The modem is not connected to AC power nor it is connected to the PSTN line. Would you be so kind to transfer me to 2-Tier please?
SD: hold on.... transferring to 2-Tier
Believe it or not, it is pretty unlikely you will ever get to someone who knows how the system works, as the system is usually designed to keep you from talking to those people.
The best you can hope for is to find someone who understands why they perform the troubleshooting steps, and are willing to break the rules by skipping steps.
This comes from years of providing phone support for various ISPs myself. They are expected to perform the checklist before they are permitted to take the actions at the end of that list, and often calls are recorded and graded later to ensure they do just that.
Suck it up and try to get through the steps with them as quickly as possible.
Honestly, the best way to go about it is to do a data dump: Explain in detail to the 1st level support what you've done already, and what the symptoms are. They'll either understand and do what needs to be done (pass you along, send you a new modem, send out a new tech) or not understand and try to stick to their script. If you throw in "I have already power-cycled" several times, they'll usually catch on. When I worked in level 1 support for many years, I was more impressed by someone telling me detailed information rather than trying to get to a higher level support or throwing around titles. (When Mr. I-am-an-MCSE had no idea what an IP address was, I lost all respect for titles)
Having been on both sides of the phone call, I can honestly say: "It's a bad idea."
Having worked ISP technical support during the stretch before I could jump start my programming career, I have dealt with numerous individuals with various levels of technical knowledge. There is a statistical improbability on how many "network engineers" calling, wanting instantly to speak to the second or third tier support when all they need is a one time equipment reprovision. There have been a few that actually did have the necessary level of knowledge; they provided their previous troubleshooting, I got them their new modem (or in a few cases actually did transfer them to tier 2 since due to "least privilege," I simply did not not have the level of access necessary to fix their issue).
As someone calling in for technical support, I find it is more useful to have someone that listens and attempts to understand than a more technical tier 1. One of the more successful calls I've had to technical support, the technician admitted to not being technical, but did compare the troubleshooting I've done to their flow chart, saw that it matched, had me go through an obligatory power cycle, and then transferred me to tier 2 that, at that company, were the ones that could replace equipment. On the otherhand, I've also had a fairly technical lady service my call at one point at the same ISP. She had no "soft-skills," did not care what I have done, and even after the issue was identified, refused to get me the help I needed. Needless to say, as soon as an alternative came available to me, I changed ISPs (left out the many calls between that had incompetent techs unwilling to be useful). I actually did ended up directly speaking to a very friendly NOC engineer at my next ISP, but I had somewhat of a rare case (that would normally never happen).
Tier 1's job is to weed out the simple issues. When I simply need a reprovision, I deal with them. The problem is not so much the technical level of the technician, even one of low skill that is willing to help and willing to think beyond the flow charts (not necessarily skip, that is a good way of getting fired at some ISPs, even if they are correct) can be successful in helping a customer. When you think about it, most individuals that have both "soft-skills" and real technical skills is likely going to move to either tier 2 or a VIP support line quite rapidly (or perhaps horizontally transfer to the IT programming department), thus no longer being on the front lines when the average customer calls for support.
As far as the powercycle routine, it's usually because of software issues or memory limitation issues. Many of the modems or routers (most modems actually are single or multiport routers since the early 2000s). They will sometimes get a memory leak in the routing table, or a string overflow that overwrites some code and sends programming God knows where, or debug logging get left on at factory and ram or nvram fills up to the brim. A powercycle will usually temporarily fix all but nvram (which typically requires a factory reset). The idea is typically to get the customer to be happy, sell them some add-on, and get them off the phones (since paying for the 800 number gets expensive). Fixing the symptoms, particularly if it doesn't occur often is a good way of doing that. Trying to identify some arcane issues that is likely to happen only once for a customer will only increases the hold time for the next customer, thus making them more likely to switch services. The two ISPs in which I have worked have had trend tracking that identified on-going issues. They would call back customers for extended troubleshooting by a higher tier if there was expected to be a deeper issue at hand. Given that I have received such a call from my current ISP, although I did email them 2 months of logs, detailed troubleshooting, etc., I would expect that at many of the major ones do that same thing.
Just my two cents.
"I know more than you"
It's been my experience that, at least for the major U.S. cable companies, the best support experience for the experienced IT professional is Twitter. The ISPs seem to staff their Twitter desks with people who have deep knowledge and a willingness to give a technically-adept customer the benefit of the doubt.
It also helps if you think hard about how you can describe your problem completely in one or two 140-character tweets. Generally, this requires knowing the lingo. A tweet that speaks the tech's own language gets more benefit of the doubt. Saying you're an experienced tech does little; way too many people think they know what they're talking about. Speaking intelligently about the technology used in the ISP's own systems identifies you as someone who Knows Their Stuff and cuts back on the scripted BS.
If your local cable company tends to send out trucks that say "contractor," you may want to get in the habit of asking them to send a genuine employee when you schedule a service call. The contractors are usually paid a flat rate per job, and so they are in a hurry to wrap it up and get to the next house instead of making sure the work is done right. I've found this to be a particular issue with Cox: if a contractor comes out, I will have to call back and get a supervisor out to do the work correctly, sooner or later.
Most companies have "executive office customer relations" teams nowadays, because people have figured out that calling the CEO's office when all else fails can be effective. Contacting the CEO's office, or the executive customer support team, is usually effective. I find it's best to sound a little upset, but not angry, when you make the call. The right attitude is "I'm really unhappy, and ready to jump ship, but I know you'd like to help me and I want to give you one last chance to make it right; can we work together on that?"
Sometimes, an executive-office contact will wind up giving you the direct number of a local tech supervisor or manager. That's pure gold, but you have to be careful not to kill the goose that laid the golden egg. Save the contact, but don't use it again unless (a) you're specifically told to call under certain circumstances or (b) you've already tried the normal support process and it hasn't worked. Yes, it's powerful to have the local head tech's phone number. It's even more powerful if he learns that you only call him when there's a real problem or serious communications breakdown in his organization.
"We are entering an age when kids have grown up with technology, and don't make half the dumb mistakes their elders did."
We really aren't, though.
I work support for an MSP, and plenty of our clients have plenty of people my age (mid-30s) and younger who do just as many dumb things as their middle-aged supervisors. They're just as bad at explaining what their problem is, just as bad at following directions, and just as bad at not doing the thing again. They're definitely not any better at not falling for obvious scams, and get really pissy when they realize that. They're definitely no more skilled at putting the square connector in the square hole, and the green plug in the green socket. They certainly aren't willing to try and figure something out on their own, or take the initiative to 'try turning it off and then on again' before calling in, just in the off chance that fixes it.
Sadly, the notion that in 30 years when all the so-called 'dumb old people' die off we're going to be a world of enlightened computer geniuses is a fantasy, if my experience in support is any indication. I don't think even those users' younger siblings, who grew up on 'apps' and smartphones and tablets rather than proper computers, are going to be any better as a group when they hit the workforce.
"These people look deep within my soul and assign me a number based on the order in which I joined" --Homer re:
The fastest, and easiest way to get an escalation is to get through the questions. What I normally do is just answer the questions.
i.e.
Support: "Restart your computer"
Me: "Okay done"
Support: "click on start... blah blah blah'
Me: "Okay done, it says no connection"
Support: "okay put in this address... balh blah blah"
Me: "It shows me a login screen to the modem"
Support "Turn the modem off and on"
Me: "Okay done. lights look like this"
Support "Okay I'll transfer you to next level"
All of this takes about two minutes because you don't ACTUALLY do any of these things, don't reboot your computer if you already did it six times and know the outcome. Don't actually restart the modem when you already did it and know the outcome. Just pause for two seconds, the person on the other end of the line is just, as you said, following the script. So follow the script with them and everyone will be happier.
You already did them and know the answers. just follow along and answer the questions. Sometimes there is a surprise along the way that you DIDN'T know about that might fix the problem where you through you knew the solution.
It sounds like they wanted to pull the "managed service" bullshit on you. When I get into that situation I give them written notice that they are not providing service as described in their agreements and that they have 30 days from receipt to remedy the situation or you will take any action necessary to fix their problem. I've done this a few times, it works. Usually though in an MSA you have an escalation clause and you do have to give them all the chances to fix their problem. Under contract law you can't be shackled because they're failing to provide service or if the services are "unusable" as long as they're getting paid under the agreement. If you just signed their boilerplate agreement, you'll still have remedies available to you but in a business don't take their boilerplate at face value especially when it comes to service levels. If they won't work with you on terms and conditions especially if they're extremely one-sided, find another provider.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
Get a service provider which offers you a dedicated account manager or support line that bypasses the public queue and/or dumps you straight into a higher tier of support. Such arrangements usually cost extra, either as a discrete line item, rolled into a higher tier of service (e.g. an "enterprise" account), or by signing up as a third-party reseller/installation agent for the company. Even festering shit holes like Time Warner and Comcast offer this.
Do you know why such a service costs extra? Because 90% of the time, any caller's problem can be resolved by the tier 1 agent that answers the call, and now there has to be a more highly-paid and highly-capable engineer on hand to answer your [probably] rote bullshit, instead of having it filtered through lower-paid agents beforehand.
"But read my post, clearly I am an expert and the agent on the line should immediately recognize that." I'm sure you are, and so is every other asshole that calls up with 30 years of IT experience and still forgets one basic troubleshooting step every now and then. Open up your wallet or shut your mouth and be patient, champion.
My ISP has an automated system. When I call from the phone on my account an automated voice tells me that it sees I'm having connection issues and that the system sees I have already rebooted my modem once to try to fix it. It asks me if I want to try that again or just go straight to tier 2.
Saves a lot of time for me since the agent already sees that I tried the unplug+plug-it-in method with no success.
I've used the DSL Reports Direct Verizon FiOS forum before successfully:
https://www.dslreports.com/forum/vzdirect
When I moved to a new place there was an obvious screw-up with the FiOS availability database (like every other house on the street had FiOS available, and of course mine did not), and numerous calls to Verizon got me nowhere. I posted a message to the Verizon Direct forum, got a knowledgeable human to respond, and they actually figured out how to get the problem solved within a week or so.
It looks like there are several other ISPs that have these direct forums on DSLRsports as well, but I can't speak to how well they are staffed. Interestingly it looks like the Comcast direct forum was shut down on DSLReports because Comcast wasn't providing very good service there ... what a shocker....
open the box up, find a likely looking component, apply 110 volts, call up the company and complain it suddenly stopped working. That's probably overkill, you could probably just open it up and cut all the wires, they probably don't autopsy each one.
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
When I get on, I tell them I need Tier 2 support. They'll ask what the issue is, and I'll be completely technical... so much so that they know some of the words, but are overwhelmed. If that doesn't do it, ask for a manager.
I pay hostmonster for hosting. I now have a direct Tier 2 email address for some issues.....
It's all a case of proving your bonafides. Did you offer to send them logfiles? And what o/s are you running? It frequently gets me past the calltaker when I tell them I run Linux.
mark
While I attempt to ask for "Tier 2 tech support". If I have some time, I will generally let the Tier 1 folks read from the queue cards. The way I see it is this: In the world of IT/IS, There is always something new to learn. Many of us don't have time to learn everything about everything we deal with, especially in the world where BYOD and unauthorized software conflicts occur. Sometimes, I may be surprised at a step they have me do that I may have forgotten. I jot it down while doing it and feel good that I learned something new/forgotten. Otherwise, if they stepped me though everything that I've done, then I feel good that I did everything the official company says to do. Also, there's no reason to be rude to these guys/gals. They have to talk to the same types of 'frequent flyers' as we do. They may only be doing this to advance in IT/IS; to be able to properly assume the person, on the other end of the phone, know to plug it in before complaining that it doesn't work.
It is easier to just let the L1 tech run through this try this.. Try this... ok now I'll give you to l2.
When the tech says reboot the device just wait a few seconds and say ok did that and still don't work. Unless you can run some kind of diagnostics and get an error code.
This just seems to go quicker then fighting to get the higher tech from the start.
Yes, I have been told to click on the dot in a circle. I really had to hold back the laughter on that one. Poor guy.
I just let it flow over me, keep records, and ask for a refund for time lost at the end. I once had my service out for a week - it literally took an earthquake to get it fixed (they finally had to power-cycle all of the equipment).
One think I learned from a certain ISP was to never call in the evening. The tech support centers in Pakistan were singularly unhelpful and would often scream at you if you tried to get to Tier 2 support.
When I called at 4am (United States CST) I would get an East German call center and would have a resolution to the problem within a half hour. And the half hour included discussing favorite types of schnapps.
NRRPT/RCT
When I was Tier 1 at DirecTV, if you said a single thing to me that I found rude or condescending, I'd cut off your service and hang up on you. The call quese were like an hour long with 300 or 400 sitting in them most all the time. If you cussed me like a dog, not only did I cut your shit off, I would make up and elaborate story to put in the CSR notes so that if you just called back, the next tech would ignore you as well. There was apparently no penalty for this since I worked there for about 1.5 years and left of my own volition. If you said escalate, I escalated. If you wanted cancellation, I swapped you to retention. I was being paid a measly $7/hr for this. It was clearly not in my job description. Perhaps if you wanted me to put up with asshats all day, you'd pay me technician pay and then maybe I'd care. Conversely though, if you called up and was super cool, I'd turn on the full movie package for free for a year. I did it all the time. Hell the reason I quit was that an installation technician manager called activating services, because he didn't have enough techs so he couldn't sit on ass all day, and I basically just turned everything right on, told him I'd be at his next location in about an hour and got up and left. Made tons of money during that summer that exceeded everything I had made the whole year and a half I was being a script monkey. The moral of the story, I guess, is if you want me to care, PAY ME TO!
What you fucks don't get is that my time is worth more than your measly $50 service charge. I'll pay it, just roll the goddamned truck- even if it's just so he can reboot the fucking thing. I'm not a technician of any sort. I don't even know which cable to put where. So I'll pay someone who can. Why is this hard for you to get?
Just for reference, Charter Cable will not allow that. I've already tried. To compensate you though, they don't charge the rental fee. It's that very same Surfboard you're alluding to as well. Consumers can buy the white ones, but Charter provides the black ones. They can tell the difference and will not remotely provision a white one. You just happened to have lucked up, Dave.
+Plos Won!+
Autocorrect isn't the only one who doesn't like pricks! -former DirecTV Tier 1 tech.
OMG! You're one of those Luddites without a smartphone aren't you? A true geek, who wears a kilt and drinks Scotch mind you, will have more than one form of internet at ALL TIMES!
Sadly, there never seems to be a way to skip to Tier III. I'm a senior engineer for a leading VAR, and I still don't have any access to skip to Tier III or PEs with my own friggin' vendor. I have to go through Tier I like everybody else.
I have noticed a couple times when ordering or troubleshooting cable modem problems at home that the Comcast rep assumed I was a technician, so I guess you might be able to milk that and get a transfer to somebody who can help.
I dont have issues with my ISP very often and if I do it usually isnt their fault. Trying to get them to understand that I realize that it isnt their fault was always the real issue. I usually start the conversation assuming that they know what they are doing. That inevitably fails and I talk to them as if I am the tech support.
I usually give them 2-3 minutes to see if they are knowledgeable enough to deal with my problem. After that I resort to my catch all phrase: "If you dont know what I am talking about then either connect me to someone that does or LET ME TALK TO YOUR BOSS." Either action has a good success rate. I also over emphasize the severity of my problem because otherwise they often think they know enough to deal with my problem.
Sounds like you've never worked in a call center environment before. Unfortunately I work in one so I can speak to this and say it's one of the most detail oriented jobs I've ever worked in. Keep in mind that front line support people are just guys that sit in a cube and take call after call. Every aspect of how they do their job is measured and used to determine who gets to keep their job at the end of the year. Trust me when I say the level of metrics they are subjected to is staggering. Front line tech support is a very procedural process, primarily because there is usually a checklist of things that they are expected to do before a dispatch can be done. Their logging is scrutinized for this information either in advance of the dispatch or in response to it. Not following procedure is a fast way to end up canned hence they're not trying to be irritating, but they do value their job.
Secondly, beyond report what you found on Google up the chain, it can't and won't affect how they do their job until the company itself acknowledges there's a problem. Sadly, legal or policy reasons dictate whether front line support can even admit to 'known issues' and bypassing support procedure would facilitate admittance of there being a known issue. Talk to your sales rep about that after the case is closed, they often have the best resources for pushing potential engineering issues in the right direction. That being said, just connect the old modem and see if they can get into it remotely. Usually they will push some remote commands to the modem and see if it responds to inquiries, hence it's best to call them while the issue is happening. You using a different modem confirms the issue is the modem, but a lot of modem issues are fixable, so catching it in the act and having them review what exactly is going on at the software level might also avoid a dispatch.
It's simple. By the time I call Support, I've already done everything they're going to ask of me and, most likely, a few things they haven't thought to ask me. So I just like and let them walk through the steps, give them the right answers to get to the next step on their flow-chart and eventually get kicked up to Second Tier or Third Tier support.
I used to be more impatient and blurt out to them everything I did, but that just confused them because it didn't follow their script. Now, I just call when it's convenient and lie my way through their process at my leisure. It's a little frustrating sometimes, but it eventually gets the results.
Oh, the trials and tribulations of a network geek! Read about them at: http://www.ryumaou.com/hoffman/netgeek/