Slashdot Mirror
University of California Hires India-Based IT Outsourcer, Lays Off Tech Workers (computerworld.com)
dcblogs writes from a report via Computerworld: The University of California is laying off a group of IT workers at its San Francisco campus as part of a plan to move work offshore. Laying off IT workers as part of a shift to offshore is somewhere between rare and unheard-of in the public sector. The layoffs will happen at the end of February, but before the final day arrives the IT employees expect to train foreign replacements from India-based IT services firm HCL. The firm is working under a university contract valued at $50 million over five years. This layoff affects 17% of UCSF's total IT staff, broken down this way: 49 IT permanent employees will lose their jobs, along with 12 contract employees and 18 vendor contractors. This number also includes 18 vacant IT positions that won't be filled, according to the university. Governments and publicly supported institutions, such as UC, have contracted with offshore outsourcers, but usually it's for new IT work or to supplement an existing project. The HCL contract with UCSF can be used by other UC campuses, which means the layoffs may expand across its 10 campuses. HCL is a top user of H-1B visa workers.
This university should lose it's state and federal funding for doing something like this.
Horrible insult to the USA, our students, and our educators.
Terrible.
Another consultant who stuck it out.
"We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx..."
You've let the worst human beings rule this world since... a long time now. You expect *good* news to just appear without doing anything about it? This nightmare will continue until a good person (if such a thing exists) decides to put a stop to it.
What better way to get value deserved for the tax payers? This is what democrats are all about.
So this college can't produce skilled tech folks?
And that's why they need H1B's?
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
Trump!
(Perhaps being crazy is underrated.)
Table-ized A.I.
So thats 79 people out of jobs for $50mil over 5 years.
or 126.5k per person per year.
Laying off current qualified workers should cause all of their H1B visas to be automatically canceled.
Obviously there is not a shortage of available workers.
UC is very wrong to do this. They should lose all of their funding. My message to Students and Staff get ready for subpar work. Yes Sir Yes Sir but no progress and they will even break what infrastructure you already have.
Giving the contract to Indians to handle. Let me guess how much they're going to regret doing THAT in 12 months. For starters, I can guarantee that nobody they're training now will still be working there. IT jobs are a stopgap for any form of management position for Indians.
they should be teching real skills not outsourcing work. Also PASS the savings on
It is not "The University of California" which is laying off the workers. It is some asshole administrator who made the decision and is hiding behind the university's skirt to avoid criticism. SO WHO THE FUCK DECIDED THIS? Names please.
Also PASS the savings on
Passing savings on? What kind of commie talk is this. Real capitalism is asking the highest price the market will bear.
The mountains of madness have many little plateaus of sanity - Terry Pratchett.
This is exactly the kind of foreign labor abuse President Trump is going to crack down on. I hope it bites them in the ass.
Hope the students enjoy trying to pick actual, discernable english out of the mush-mouthed, can't do shit without a script tech support wannabes.
They're paying all that money. And the school's endowment keeps growing.
BUT THEY GOTSTA CUT CORNERS!
The H1B visa system needs to be shitcanned with a quickness.
So is $0 (aka being fired) considered a living wage?
This will come back to bite them when they have issues with support quality, timezone differences and other well known non-US outsourcing problems (though maybe less with accents).
They probably could have swung this quite a bit to their benefit by outsourcing to Detroit, Baltimore, pick your own troubled city... Underprivileged American worker sounds better when they're trying to explain it, (double points explaining that they're also not limiting to under 30 years old) yet they still get something in a reasonable timezone, and get a lot of the benefit of moving out of San Fran wage zone.
Also PASS the savings on
Passing savings on? What kind of commie talk is this. Real capitalism is asking the highest price the market will bear.
Real capitalism? Define real capitalism please, because its not capitalism with plenty of government intervention like it is in the USA (or a lot of countries for that matter).
This is my sig, there are many like it but this one is mine
Expecting an employee who is being fired to train his replacement is immoral. This is even more so when the employee is being fired without cause.
The employees have every right, both legal and moral, to stonewall the education of their replacements. It would be immoral to sabotage systems or update documentation to be incorrect, but passive resistance is fair game, and far better than the University deserves.
University of California Cites 'Courage' As Reason To Lay Off Tech Workers
Are you telling me you can't find a handful of smart kids in your Computer Science department that would rather do remedial computer work than work at the mall? You've literally got an entire department of unemployed cheap labor and you are looking to India? That doesn't speak too highly about your graduates...
So one of the most Liberal institutions in one of the most Liberal cities in the country (being outdone only by its neighbors Berzerkley and Santa Cruz) decides to do exactly what Liberals accuse Big Business of? So many things - they can't produce students who'll do the same work at the same rates while being in the same time zone & place?
At least not unless there is a reduction in services. I don't know why people think outsourcing always saves money. It often doesn't. Basically outsourcing is a good idea if you are too small to be able to do something yourself efficiently. You either don't do enough of it, or do it often enough to make it worth having an internal team.
For example construction is something basically everyone outsources. You just don't build new buildings often enough to make it a worthwhile proposition to have a dedicated staff for it, they'd be sitting around most of the time.
However when you get large, often you can do shit in house for cheaper, or at least the same price and have more control. It isn't like those contract workers are free, and it isn't like the company who contracts them takes no cut.
With a large university, practically everything should be in house. They are so large they usually have their own police forces, they are literally small cities. So you have enough needs that hiring your own staff usually makes sense. In general when I've seen a university outsource something they used to do it ends up costing them more, and the service is generally worse, sometimes a bit, sometimes a lot.
Thus my bet is in the end this contract costs them more than they were paying.
Worst example I've seen is a friend who consults for a public school system (primary, not university). They outsource most everything, as is evident from him contracting to them to do development. So a project he was doing needed a dedicated Linux virtual server. They balked at that, and he pushed back, confused. It was a low spec server, could be a VM, it just needed to be dedicated for security. The reason they balked? The outsourcing firm that ran their servers charged them well over $1000/year per VM. AT a rate like that, you don't need many VMs before it would be cheaper to buy a server and hire a guy who does nothing but mind after it.
Maybe give the students a crash course in Hindi/Kannada/Tamil/Marathi, so that they'll know how to run the conversation
I wouldn't hold out much hope. He two-faced and both of them are fake orange. He's already flipped to supporting H1b visas already:
http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-h1b-visas-gop-debate-immigration-2016-3
Kelly: "Mr. Trump, your campaign website to this day argues that more visas for highly skilled workers would, quote, "decimate American workers." However, at the CNBC debate, you spoke enthusiastically in favor of these visas. So which is it? "
Trump: "I'm changing. I'm changing. We need highly skilled people in this country," Trump said. "And if we can't do it, we'll get them in....And one of the biggest problems we have is people go to the best colleges ... as soon as they're finished, they get shoved out. They want to stay in this country. They want to stay here desperately. They're not able to stay here. For that purpose, we absolutely have to be able to keep the brainpower in this country. "
I think the need for so many tech and tech support workers is the real problem. Either their system is broken or the staff isn't effective. It shouldn't take that many people to manage a university that size.
We the people, for the people by the people
(suckers)
https://www.usfca.edu/arts-sci...
Well, it's kinda funny...
This was likely a factor in the decision: the minimum wage is $13/hour and will be $15/hour by 2018.
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Minimum-Wage-Jumps-to-13-Per-Hour-in-San-Francisco-385257511.html
When something is more expensive, less of it gets bought. When it costs more to hire people, jobs start to go away.
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
I've been hearing Americans complain about their economy being in the shitter for the better part of four decades. When was it good then? Seriously, where does it end with you Americans? It is not a question about Nationalism, competence, immigration or whatever else you may blame this on. It is all about MONEY. American engineers cost more than Indian engineers. But you want to save $$Millions because you don't want to pay American engineers. You want cheaper. You want $200 flat screen TV's and a tablet and a smartphone for every fucking kid in your household. You want a $100 million project to cost $50 million. How do you think those prices are possible? Sending the hard work overseas and bringing cheap H1B people in. But you don't want that! You only want the cheap prices! Of course you yourself want to earn $150k year and have your luxury iPhone renewed every year. That's the contradiction your Orange Prince is selling you. Jesus, it is nothing short of a miracle how cheap your gasoline is. What the hell do you want your economy to do? 100+k jobs for everyone and 100% American made iPad that costs 300 bucks? Give me a fucking break.
Student loans need to have chapter 7 and 11 so that schools can't get a free pass.
Other wise I'd tell them to fuck off if I was told to train the person who is going to take my job by me being laid off.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
but we are talking about socialism. ( public education )
There is a large portion called "profits" that you seem to be omitting. People really get screwed at both ends because companies are taking everything and funneling more and more to shareholders year over year, or simply keeping it offshore. At one time there was balance but now there is not.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Capitalism is NOT a system of governance nor is it a form or measure of patriotism, regardless of how one may have been socially engineered to believe otherwise.
CS = lot's of theory and little hands on at state schools. Also mit and harvard are more on the theory side and had some outsourcing WTF in the past.
nested VM's just request an 32 core 128 GB VM and then nest all own VM that you need under that.
Smells like capitalism to me
masters degrees that are not accredited with schools own accredited ones.
H1B minwage needs to be like 100k-150K
The higher ed bubble is ready to pop.
ITT was good in the 90's / 2000's but in 2016 it went under.
Le Cordon Bleu schools owned by Career Education Corporation 2015
Being used to undercut my field of employment.
Those skillsets are high school level skilled trades these days. Because of the insistence that IT was only something you could get into with a full college degree by people like those on Slashdot we never trained those workers in the skillsets.
IT is the equivalent of welding these days. Until the US vocational schools start cranking out IT and programmer techs companies are going to fill the positions with Indians.
A lot of US multinational were able to set up shops in developing countries like India etc due to WTO and other trade agreements, they destroyed a lot of local companies because they mass produced good at a cheaper price, now why is this wrong.. Let the private company decide how they want work to get done...
Randians and other elistists, I'm talking to you. You, with the ad-hoc tautologies that public sector workers shouldn't be allowed to organize, because reasons (as if anti-tax organizations didn't exist to force rates down). Expecting workers to train their foreign replacements is depraved, no matter their country's origen.
Anyone who has tried to outsource an entire department worth of people can tell you: this shit is going to go up in flames like the Hindenburg. Hydrogen. Gas. Explosion. Their network is going to become a smoking ruin. Sit back and roast marshmallows over the flames people.
%&@@Trump%&!!#, the situation in University of California is annoying!
UCSF is a medical campus, and they operate a hospital, so this is probably where the cuts are being made. Healthcare IT is badly funded and there's never enough money to do anything interesting...they're focused solely on keeping doctors happy so IT's needs never come before that. But, having a public university system signing outsourcing contracts with vendors, foreign or domestic, is a new twist I didn't see coming.
It didn't say in the article what they offshored, but in my experience HCL is a mainframe programming shop, so of course this means that anyone being replaced is probably "old" and will have a very rough time finding employment even close to previous levels again. That sucks double for them, because they're going to be marched through the "train your replacement" humiliation to get severance/early retirement.
I'm all for stuff like cloud computing, colocation, etc. where it makes sense, but I really don't understand why companies continue to believe they're going to get some great deal doing an outsourcing engagement. Do they not realize these companies have to get paid enough to profit from the deal? Where do they think that money comes from? I hate the trend of running companies on a huge tower of outsourced services. Every company of reasonable size should do almost everything in house -- it's cheaper in the long run and the employees doing the work are more engaged. There is absolutely no task that is better done by an outsourcer than your own employees.
Horrible insult to the USA, our students, and our educators. Terrible.
Yes, but this is in character with CA politicians. Recently when the Bay Bridge was constructed they used Chinese steel.
Do you think the jobs of white collar IT workers are any more valuable than blue collar steel workers to CA politicians? That being a UC employee makes any difference to them? And don't kid yourself about the administrators of the UC system being politicians. Funds must be cut to fund their political payback projects and their vanity projects.
FWIW, I have seen behind the scenes of UC politics a little, spent some time on two campuses.
quick, vote in lying nazi as president who outsources production to china!
Go on, unionize. Then watch as nobody joins and those who do suddenly find themselves unemployable. In a globalized economy workers have no leverage at all. The class struggle is over and Big Money won.
And who controls the government in the US? That's right, the corporations. Case closed.
GRAFT.
Bribes, corruption, back handers, nepotism call it what you will it's the ONLY way to get things done in India.
No need to learn Hindi - they just need to learn the Hinglish accent.
In a battle of Good versus Evil, Evil usually wins unless Good is very, very careful.
#DeleteChrome
The educational landscape has changed dramatically in the last decade or two. At any credible university with a good technical program, they will have a fully fledged technology college filled with diverse degrees only one of which will be "algorithmic computational math" the rest will vary from network engineering to databases to enterprise admin and management.
In modern colleges computer science has returned to it's roots as being more about math and programming than about the ins and outs of running IT departments.
Sure, it is just the guiding force for all our decisions based on a partially free market. In that sense, it is a governing force, since it also controls the government on a global level.
So they are trying to keep a sinking boat afloat. That's why they recruit out of state/out of country students: they pay full tuition, as opposed to residents who pay less.
Also, don't underestimate the influence of the corporate takeover of the educational system. The regents and the leadership at all the campuses are integrated with corporate interests. Public funded research results in patents and the profits are used to support research. Sounds OK, but in fact the ultimate benefit goes to corporations who have deals with the schools. It's a lot like the NFL using state supported schools as their farm team system. Get someone else to develop the talent and harvest the results at a huge discount.
I'm not defending any of this. It's just one more example of the corrupt state of the country. All the costs are go one way, all the payout goes the other.
Why is Snark Required?
It will be good news for the University as after all Indians with English sounding names are always ringing us up to tell us they work for Microsoft and that our PC's is faulty as it's either full of Malware, Viruses or just just plain slow and for a small fee they can fix it all for us. The university should be proud at getting these wonderful people to replace homegrown tallent as not once has any IT staff rung us to say our PC's are faulty etc.
HCL is a top user of H-1B visa workers.
Are they qualified to implement HIPAA rules?
Bunch of tough-talking pussies, Murricans are. Use your second amendment rights, yeesh. In a country full of guns where normal people are shot every day for stupid shit, can't someone just shoot the CTO/CIO's at these places? It would make a good news story, plus scum that needs to die... dies.
Shooting capitalists dead -- a great way to relax. Shoot one today!
people still pay for college? lolololol
Also PASS the savings on
Passing savings on? What kind of commie talk is this. Real capitalism is asking the highest price the market will bear.
Real capitalism? Define real capitalism please, because its not capitalism with plenty of government intervention like it is in the USA (or a lot of countries for that matter).
Oh yeah, I can really tell that "government intervention" is hurting Apple these days.
I cite Apple, because if you were to pick one company who will gladly ask the "highest price the market will bear", they are THE example.
that's all universities are anymore.
Do they still teach that it's means it is, or is that outsourced too these days?
And who controls the government in the US?
Elected politicians do.
The fact that these elected politicians sell legislation to the highest bidder has nothing to do with Capitalism and everything to do with Statism.
If you want to reduce the influence of money on the State, then the correct course of action is to reduce the influence of the State. I bet however, that you are one of those "don't throw your vote away" douches that is going to vote for Donald Clinton.
"His name was James Damore."
What is stopping them from "outsourcing" their IT to another UC school which teaches system administration as part of it's curriculum. It seems like it would be a good opportunity to teach remote administration.
It was probably on the table that they have another UC's IT department handle it; it was likely *never* on the table that IT students handle it.
Personally, I wouldn't be an IT student, if it's obvious that IT is going to be outsourced everywhere; about the only thing you could train to be would be a trainer. It's like being an English major: the only jobs are in creating more English majors.
What am I missing?
Most likely the fact that UCSF is a graduate medical university, and that means that pretty much every IT system on campus has "live data", which means, in turn, that you have to be able to trust the people running it with HIPAA sensitive information.
You can trust HCL (which is actually located in Sunnyvale, not India) with that, because they have deep pockets to sue, if they ever screw up. You can't really trust students to the same degree.
You want a bank to give a person around age 20, with minimal work experience, and an unproven aptitude, a loan for 5 digits? Some student loans can be had with interest rates about 5 percent. Mortgages can be had for 3 percent. If the person defaults, you can seize a sellable house. If the student defaults, what can you seize? I guess if slavery were legal, this would not be a problem.
They used to be. But then the federal government took over the entire industry and got rid of bk'ing student loans.
There's theory, and there's fact.
The theory was that no one in their right mind would loan someone in poverty, and who did not qualify academically or athletically for a scholarship, the money for them to get an underwater basket weaving degree, unless the government agreed to do it.
In exchange, the government, as guarantor, put the condition on the loans that they could not be discharged in bankruptcy -- just like any debt owed the government (i.e. we still have debtor's prisons, only they are for taxes). That way the guarantor could throw your butt in jail if you decided not to pay the student loan back.
The fact is that underwater basket weaving isn't really a marketable enough skill to allow you to make your student loan payments.
lot's = lot is, lot was, or something belongs to the lot. The lot's number was indicated lots of different ways.
Laying off current qualified workers should cause all of their H1B visas to be automatically canceled.
Like when Microsoft laid off Nokia workers?
Obviously there is not a shortage of available workers.
I'm sure that Microsoft could have employed all those "Can't make a cell phone product anyone wants to buy" workers in another segment of their business, like the X-Box division. That would have enabled them to make an X-Box no one wants to buy too, since that's the core competency of those workers.
In other words: that's a dumb idea with frosting on top.
Are you telling me you can't find a handful of smart kids in your Computer Science department that would rather do remedial computer work than work at the mall?
Yes, they are telling you that.
UCSF doesn't have a CS department, and they aren't talking about CS anyway, they are talking about IT. Different degrees.
Which they weren't happy about and didn't train me correctly. And honestly, I don't blame them. It was a shitty position to be in.
Be seeing you...
And what does it say to those CS students across the bay. No worries, you're wasting your time?
What it says to UCB CS students... is "Aren't you glad you're getting a CS degree (computer science emphasis), rather than an IT degree (business and communications emphasis)?" ...which is probably exactly what it should be saying.
That's not capitalism, it's free market economics.
Simply to mandate that if you replace a position with an H1-B, you have to pay them the same salary. It's only fair. And also allow them to find work, whenever they want, on the open market and leave the company at any time. No company can effectively master their H1-Bs.
Way off, buddy. I'm one of those eurotrash types who lives in a (still) democratic country. Unfortunately you USians are doing your damnest to destroy what's left of democracy all over the world.
But I digress. It's a long standing tradition in your mighty country to buy your way into politics. Show me a politician not backed up by some lobby group (BTW nice euphemism for bribery) founded by some corporation. I'm not talking here about some obscure name from some obscure state but the ones from the federal level.
Can you?
Especially when the product involves basic human needs like Education or Health. Quite why the food industry hasn't realised this and continues to compete to drive prices downward is a mystery to me.
they're obviously pushing their institutions' business schools with these shenanigans. what better way to teach future business leaders how the world works than by firing the very person who helped you with a intranet login issue last term and replaced them with a dark skinned guy named 'bob' with a funny accent and short dark hair.
Mountain Dew does come in cans: https://www.amazon.com/Mountai...
WTF, indeed.
Universities have been outsourcing their IT for years. At my school, we use Microsoft for email, Elucian for student records, Plesk for web services, and I can't recall which company does personnel. Company comes in and claims that, because of their existing infrastructure, they can offer better services at lower per-student cost, and budget pressure takes over. Contracting out the actual staffing of help desk is just the next logical step.
It's a funny thing to watch a university that was part of the development of open, distributed electronic mail abdicate its management to Microsoft. It feels like selling out, although it's probably just the natural progression of technological maturity. My only compensation is to imagine that the university is using some of those people to develop the next cool technology, and I just don't know about it yet.
Those laid off should claim that layoffs trigger them and they need a safe space at work. Claim that outsourcing is a microaggression! They should be able to get the process reversed quickly.
Do you have ESP?
First time a student hears that iconic phrase, ***triggered!***
>The fact that these elected politicians sell legislation to the highest bidder has nothing to do with Capitalism and everything to do with Statism.
Sorry pal, but now you're moving the goalpost. You declared that capitalism is selling at the highest cost the market will bear. These politicians are being capitalists by selling their product, legislation to the highest bidder. Their supposed to sell it to the voters (who appointed them at the ballot box and pay their salaries with taxes) but the voters offer less than the market will bear.
That's capitalism - like it or not.
The thing is - this is not supposed to be a capitalist institution. A public university is part of the civil service. What you're seeing is the outcome of the long republican drive telling us "universities should be more like businesses" - which is what they are now doing, and this is exactly why that was always a terrible idea. The two types of organisation have nothing in common. Universities are not SUPPOSED to be profitable or efficient or even cost-effective. They are suppose to produce knowledge and to give that freely to the world. That's the exact opposite of what a business is supposed to do.
If all you care about is the cheapest school the market will bear - private universities exist for that purpose, but public universities first and primary goal is supposed to be research and even their entire education section's sole real purpose is to pass the results of the research into the population and, coincidentally, train another generation of researchers to take over when the current batch dies.
Making money, even training people for a job, is nowhere on the list of things a university is supposed to do. The latter is, at most, a tangential benefit from sharing knowledge with students.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Your trying to sell a product for MONEY, do not kid yourself, this is about MO MONEY for the top of that college. Those top 20 folks that are multimillionaires on the back of student debt. They just gave the big F-OFF kid, your not smart enough to realize your stupid. Perhaps it was that Fluoride, Mercury fillings, and lead in the water that put your kids here?
New World ORDER and TPP for the FAIL folks, repeal Nafta, pull down this bullshit outsourcing/insourcing scheme, GO VOTE ignore any polls and vote. You won't stop this level of stupid with some letters to the dean, expect all colleges to attempt this soon if they are not already doing it behind the scenes. Your paychecks will not go up, and your employment will not get stable until you fix the 1% bleeding you dry. Its called Tarrifs, its called taxes, its called real trade agreements that help Americas people not to the benefit of 65 people that own half the planet.
instead of complaining about things on slashdot, lets all get off our collective IT asses institute change by organizing and protesting until we get the things we want or change the things we dont like. other countries do it all the time, why doesn't america?
Joe R. Bengfort is the Chief Information Officer for UCSF Medical Center and Campus and joined the organization in June 2011. Prior to that, Mr. Bengfort worked for 22 years at Dell Services / Perot Systems
Oh wow conflict of interest much?
Thats why vote for Trump. He is an idiot but at least he is in favor of jobs in america.
The CIO notes that Obamacare (ACA) basically has put the financial screws to he hospital and that they've chosen to cut in the IT area rather than patient care, which is completely rational.
Nancy Pelosi promised lots of news jobs from ACA. And you idiots believed her. So don't whine now. You earned this.
Oh man, I don't often comment, but wow, they chose HCL... HCL is shit. I work for a financial company that is canceling HCL contracts and kicking their asses out, several of their staff has recieved permanent bans from EVER working at my company again. From people not showing up ans billing for time, costing over $100,000 in fraudulent payroll. To people just deciding to not work because the Project Manager was not in that day. despite them having set tasks and work scheduled for that day. We've gone through a slew of "frontmen" the business representatives, even their White American representatives suck and fill our ears with lies. Going to India based solutions is NOT good for American companies. For one there is a massive language barrier. Indians are inefficient and poorly organized. I'm a casual scripter and out programmed a team of 10 "professionals" As stated above, it takes 10 or more to achieve the same level of work as a single well trained US based IT worker. Then there's the constant brain drain. Indians cycle on a 3-5 years at their job, burn out and work somewhere else. Or some other company is hiring for better pay and they pack up and move across the country to their new venture. Over the long term this ends up costing business far more than their bargain basement prices at the start. Indian politics are also horrendous. Woman get worse treatment no matter their skill level. They'll fire a skilled worker to hire someone from their local district. America needs to stop trying to skim the bottom line and work towards highly trained and more efficient working practices. Not this "out of site out of mind" principal.
Why is it always Indians, not Africans?
Anybody?
Other wise I'd tell them to fuck off if I was told to train the person who is going to take my job by me being laid off.
I wouldn't advise it. I'd train them to the best of my ability with a smile on my face.
Now when you start looking for another job and an employer is interested and does a background check, you'll want a nice reference. Because they'll ask why you were dismissed and you'll tell them that they outsourced/off-shored/hired H1-bs.
Hopefully, you won't hear what I heard, "If you were any good, you wouldn't be unemployed."
This practice is illegal and those getting the shaft need to sue. I'm sure there are plenty of attorneys that'll take this on spec.
Way off, buddy. I'm one of those eurotrash types who lives in a (still) democratic country. Unfortunately you USians are doing your damnest to destroy what's left of democracy all over the world.
But I digress. It's a long standing tradition in your mighty country to buy your way into politics. Show me a politician not backed up by some lobby group (BTW nice euphemism for bribery) founded by some corporation. I'm not talking here about some obscure name from some obscure state but the ones from the federal level.
Can you?
You hit it right on the head...
You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
Damn it, where are my mod points this morning? Excellent post!
You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
CS = lot's of theory and little hands on at state schools
Apparently CS also means skipping that class where they talked about using apostrophes (unless it's used to remark out a line in a script).
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Clinton is a square shooter. Clinton 2016!
"Until the US vocational schools start cranking out IT and programmer techs"
Seriously? We graduate 2-3 times the number of STEM students and programmers than job openings. Your statement is out of touch with reality.
This law is not enforced. Good luck trying to stand on that point.
Now that it is happening to the public sector, the real power in this country other than big business (public sector unions) will sit up and notice, and maybe we'll finally get some rules against this
-- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
+1. I went to university for 5 years for a CS degree and it cost me $25k for tuition alone (it's closer to $40k today). As far as being a prerequisite for my current job goes, I'd say maybe 5% of the overall content was useful, another 5% provides a nice background, but otherwise 90% was wasted time on unnecessary specialization (AI, search engine algorithms, heuristic search, advanced maths). But 100% was required to get the piece of paper which is a requirement for my position.
In Japan is hard to get accepted by a college but after that you’re on a easy street party!
Also the entrance exams can be passed easy if good at test cramming.
I predict that by the end of next year, UCSF will have spent $10 million of that $30 million savings on custom programming from HCL just on writing interfaces for a new version of Blackboard.
2018 will spend another $10 million on new interfaces for Ellucian.
2019 will spend another $10 million on new new interfaces for Blackboard.
Repeat ad naseum...
The trustees and management of the university that made this decision should be lined up and shot! Period. It will happen soon enough. Keep it up fuckers! See what comes to you!
doctors have a union / AMA to stop that!
An Eastern Bloc PHD whose education was financed by a communist country is competing unencumbered for a job against an American student who amassed an enormous debt load . The capitalist companies are using labor that was educated by foreign states. If that is the case it would make sense to heavily tax these companies in order to provide state funded education and have an equal "market" for labor. Maybe Bernie was on to something....
The ironic thing about this story is it is a University and India. What do they tell their Comp Sci students at the career center?
IT is the equivalent of welding these days. Until the US vocational schools start cranking out IT and programmer techs companies are going to fill the positions with Indians.
I think they are similar in that there are two aspects to welding - one i step skills trade and the other is the engineering and science aspect that requires advanced education. You can get a BS, MS and PhD in Welding Engineering for example, where the focus is on the science of welding and goes far beyond sticking two pieces of metal together; and the welding engineers I met have great respect for good welders. Similarly, you can teach a bunch of kids coding basics but don't expect them to understand computer science; do real CS types respect coders?. Also, welding and programming are similar in that anyone can strike an arc or write code, to do it at a master level takes experience, practice and talent. Fortunately for welders, having that type of skill means you are in demand, for coders it simply means you are too expensive and can be replaced by a couple keyboard bangers just out of school.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Bernie Sanders.
Having the pleasure of hand holding HCL for every little task, they should be completely qualified for Congress.
Capitalism doesn't differentiate the external causes of profit. It just rewards profit.
If the federal government stopped subsidizing student loans the education industry would adapt and, perhaps, lower tuition. Or reduce the time needed for specific training (degrees intended to prepare one for a vocation might better be called 'training'). Or change the course offering to reduce institutional costs. They would adapt.
And if the Federal government stopped granting H1-B visas on the flimsiest of claims of no available talent, businesses would find employees to do the work needed, or move where the employees are. Unless, of course, moving was not practical.
Capitalism is distorted by government manipulation, and that's a good reason to limit government. But capitalism isn't nearly so concerned with that. It's not that capitalism is right or wrong, it that capitalism is efficient, even when interfered with. And efficient economics is better than inefficient economics.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
I always find the most amusing outsource is when states/government outsources unemployment office jobs. Really, you could not find someone unemployed to fill the position in the unemployment office? I know Indiana played with it, along with California and even England.
Not even where the coffee is. Fuck them you are toast anyway.
Walk now.
True this.
Not long ago your typical college graduate in India could find work as a call center worker. That changed, and many college students in India were working their last year of school in those call centers. Fast forward to today, and it's not even high school graduates in India that are the hot call center employees - it's high school graduates in the Philippines.
College graduates from India are now sent out as programming leads, project managers, business analysts. High school graduates in India are head-down coders. A full year of experience qualifies you as a lead. Two years later, you've rotated back to India, team lead. Two years later, rotate back to the US, an architect. Your predecessor rotated back to India to lead your team... And you, as architect, have a team of BAs and leads telling them what to code overnight.
Departmental outsources let companies fix costs in a way that they cannot with the incumbent department. VPN the NOC over to Gurgaon, everyone is watching the screens, responding, taking MAC orders and funneling them through the chain leaving your actual workers waiting 72 hours for their login to the ERP to be reset. Or not.
It's a real time Dilbert strip.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
I learned a new term last week sitting in a grad class -- "Fresher".
When an Indian identifies themselves as a "Fresher", it means they don't know squat about that field even if they hold an advanced degree.
My guess is that lots of Freshers from HCL will be running around UCSF very soon.
Damn, man. Now people won't be able to tell if the "Hello, dees ees weendows tiknical support," phone calls are real or a phishing scam. Maybe the UC system people who made this boneheaded move fell for it.
And who controls the government in the US?
Elected politicians do. The fact that these elected politicians sell legislation to the highest bidder has nothing to do with Capitalism and everything to do with Statism. If you want to reduce the influence of money on the State, then the correct course of action is to reduce the influence of the State. I bet however, that you are one of those "don't throw your vote away" douches that is going to vote for Donald Clinton.
Can you hear my eyes rolling from wherever you are? Because you should be able to.
I'm constantly amazed at the ability of Libertarians to ignore the power of concentrated wealth. If you reduce the influence of the State, who steps into the vacuum? Nobody? You think that's reasonable to expect? Or maybe the most wealthy and powerful private interests? What do you do about them? How do you reduce their influence when they start running roughshod over people and their rights and interests? Do you sue them? With what money? And who enforces contracts and the outcome of lawsuits? The government? The same government that should be so weak it isn't worth taking over?
This is what drives me nuts about this simplistic Libertarian bullshit. The government has to be the biggest kid on the block! Reasonable people can disagree about the size and scope of government. But the government has to be supreme in order to enforce laws. At the end of the day it has to have coercive power. The idea behind a government by and for the people is that this big bully will work for the benefit of society and protect the weak against the strong. You keep money out of it by enacting laws against it and enforcing them; not by reducing government to the point of impotence.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
You can also offshore mathematicians, physicists, doctors... should they all be replaced with vocational school graduates? What happens when our vocational school graduates are replaced with offshore vocational school graduates, because those will be always cheaper?
You declared that capitalism is selling at the highest cost the market will bear.
Nope. Wasn't me. Do you have a problem with reading comprehension and attribution? It appears so, since it was someone else who said what you are now claiming that I said.
Do you make this mistake often? Perhaps also when you blame republicans for what the democrats did?
"His name was James Damore."
Show me a politician not backed up by some lobby group (BTW nice euphemism for bribery) founded by some corporation.
Just one? How about Dave Brat.
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
As these jobs are moving offshore, as in literally to workers in another country, what does the H-1B have to do with this? Yes, the California higher ed system has lots of people in the US working on H-1Bs, but since the new offshore IT people aren't in the US they won't be on H-1Bs so the visa has nothing to do with it. Quit spreading visa FUD.
You're not familiar with the 'plural you' ?
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Thinking that through, I never, NEVER got any single thing that cost more than $75 from my parents. Never. Not even my good fly rod. My first phone bill as an adult was $11.76 for a month. I scored free installation because the Phone Company got caught claiming private lines were not available in the city despite being required by tariff to provide them when requested.
And now I'm coming to grips with giving my 14 year old daughter a smartphone worth $400-$800. For two years tops. And $50/month for service. In two years that's more money than my first PC cost. And the phone line for the modem. And the modem.
Some of our pain is self-inflicted.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
This is by far and away the stupidest comment I have ever read on Slashdot. And I've been coming here for 20 years.
Donald Trump.
should they all be replaced with vocational school graduates?
They are. My wife is a doctor and what a doctor does in 2016 has changed a lot from what they did in 1996, 1976, 1956, etc. You have nurse practitioners, registered nurses, all the way down to orderlies. You can get into the medical field with... voch tech level training. It's not because the work doesn't need to be done it's because the doctors need to work on other things and it's too expensive to pay them to do something someone with a tech degree can do.
A doctor should know how to put in an IV but there's a good chance they'll suck at it. They don't do it anymore that job falls to other positions.
We need fewer CS code architects and more Programmers that can actually build it.
Those skillsets are high school level skilled trades these days. Because of the insistence that IT was only something you could get into with a full college degree by people like those on Slashdot we never trained those workers in the skillsets.
IT is the equivalent of welding these days. Until the US vocational schools start cranking out IT and programmer techs companies are going to fill the positions with Indians.
Didn't ITT Tech just go under? And how is designing, building, upgrading, maintaining and troubleshooting complex systems anything like welding?
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
> And how is designing, building, upgrading, maintaining and troubleshooting complex systems anything like welding?
Spoken like someone that doesn't weld in an industrial setting.
A CS major should have as much to do with what the programmer does as a college welding major does with skilled trade welding.
Didn't ITT Tech just go under
Good, maybe we can push people to community colleges and high school voctech programs instead of for profit colleges.
And then bribing the government to give you some sort of competitive advantage, and raising the price more.
Rule 35 of the internet: "If it can be hacked, it will be". - Charles Stross
Sorry pal, but now you're moving the goalpost. You declared that capitalism is selling at the highest cost the market will bear.
No, Kabukiwookie said that. Rockoon, the man you are replying to, said nothing of the sort. Rockoon pointed out not all market economies (where supply/demand helps set pricing) are capitalistic in nature. Governments can be involved in a market economy without their economy being primarily controlled by private ownership of property and the means of production (capitalism). China is a prime example of communism which relies heavily on manipulating market forces through state run corporations. On a global scale it behaves very similarly to capitalism, but the lack of private ownership of the economy precludes it from being considered capitalism.
the thing is - this is not supposed to be a capitalist institution. A public university is part of the civil service.
Every institution within a market economy, whether the economy is capitalism or communism, will be affected by market forces. Every institution without exception. Unless the government can both control the institution and force people to work there for a rate determined by the government, market forces will affect even non-profit institutions.
Making money, training people for a job, or increasing demand for IT professionals in the local economy are nowhere on the list of things a university is supposed to do.
There I fixed that for you to make it more relevant to the topic at hand. Like you implied above, the university should stick to its public charter and not take on so many tangential roles. Public universities were not created to increase the number of IT jobs by employing them in the university. If lowering the costs of operations helps them provide a better learning experience for a more affordable cost to society, they are doing their job. The choice to outsource IT operations may still be a bad one, but it doesn't conflict with the role of public universities in our society.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
This university should no longer get money from the federal government if they outsource from foreign countries and require the current workers to train their replacements.
CS = lot's of theory and little hands on at state schools. Also mit and harvard are more on the theory side and had some outsourcing WTF in the past.
There is the problem. IT != CS. Getting a CS degree to do IT work is like getting your MD and becoming a nurse. Requiring CS degrees for simple IT work has fucking destroyed the industry.
HCL is widely known for paying large kick-backs to obtain it's contracts, then for "maximizing billable hours" at outrageous rates.
Their turnover rate is so high that "training their replacements" is ludicrous. The people being trained will be gone from HCL within 6 weeks (their "training" allows them to jump ship to another outsourcing contractor at a higher pay) and you will be right back where you started. Then HCL will charge you more for "more experienced contractors" who will still need training. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
I would also investigate the private bank accounts of the IT Executives at UCSF for unusual "large deposits" from offshore accounts.
It is common for HCL (and Cap Gemini, WiPro, etc.) to pay a fixed % of the total contract back under the table to the IT executive who signed the contract (so do AT&T, Verizon, etc.)
I can't tell you how many times our R&D has hired HCL only to fire them for shoddy work, just to see them hired AGAIN by another part of the company (only to be fired again.) Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Once they are in the system as a validated contractor, you can NEVER get rid of them.
With decisions like that, they do not have to be local. Even better, get rid of it. Decisions like this can be made by a computer
Sorry pal, but now you're moving the goalpost. You declared that capitalism is selling at the highest cost the market will bear. These politicians are being capitalists by selling their product, legislation to the highest bidder. Their supposed to sell it to the voters (who appointed them at the ballot box and pay their salaries with taxes) but the voters offer less than the market will bear.
That's capitalism - like it or not.
That's poor oversight by the voters. Because most of them are re-electing the douchebags who made promises to the voters before the elections and then sold out to corporate interests. I'd expect a lot more people voting for third parties, concerns about "lost votes" be damned.
C - the footgun of programming languages
nobody cares. web forum posts are not pulitzer candidates.
That's the true savings, I'll bet you could get a good CIO, CEO, CTO, etc. really cheap offshore.
Maybe even automate it. Just say no all the time and act pissed off.
Or do nothing like Tim Cook, just collect your cash and stock options.
Eric Allman developed what became sendmail while a student at UC Berkeley. According to my technical instructors at Sun Microsystems (back when there was no such thing as web based training, and classes included lots of side discussions), Eric was told that this was never going to be released in any way, it would always be just part of his degree training. Or something along those lines. Sort of ironic that 1.) they were wrong and 2.) since sendmail was released as part of BSD, it became the defacto mail server of the 90's. For whatever reason, this discussion dug this little nugget out of my memory.
Outsource Napolitano's office and UC would save 570k+ per year alone. Outsource the head coaches of the basketball and football teams and they'd save more than UCSF's entire IT budget annually. Priorities folks...
So underpaid foreign dregs is America's future in your book?
I think I found the corporate scumbag shill!
I worked for HCL. They caused more than enough issues for me as far as pay goes.
As for the company they contracted, complaints have gone up for customer service. They whine on the phone with customers and have short tempers.
Not American but this affects every country that is currently racing to the bottom. Ffs, passive resistance is needed, probably futile, but someone needs to take a stand before we're all writing documentation for our Indian colleagues.
I've been told that as long as SW devs stay with a company past 45 or so, they can make it work until retirement.
...
That plan wouldn't work for any SW folks in this case.
About to turn 35 and jittery
One supposes the UofCA has a poor CS curriculum since they do not think so much of CS workers.
Wrong, you want to remove the influence of money on the political process, you make efforts to remove outside money from the process by things such as public funding of elections, banning of donations to the politicians from people, companies, and the political parties themselves and making the appointments to ruling the nation ban them from working outside of it again.
Running a nation should be seen as an endgame goal, not a stepping stone to a consulting job and banning them from taking money to get in and getting rewarded for selling out after they get out is a great way to deal with that.
Sorry but reducing the influence of the state is throwing the baby out with the bath water as the influence of the state SHOULD be the influence of the people except it has been co-opted by the rich because money was allowed into the process.
You make the mistake that many have made before, you think by removing THE government from an area that you removed government from it. Many times that is untrue. Many times when you remove THE government from an area all you did was open up a vacuum where the strong companies within it fill and become the government within that area with even less accountability to the people. Doubly so in many areas where competition can not function or the demand is static and will be there regardless of cost or quality.
I can see how a guy who can't understand the shift key would want that to be true. But actively inserting an apostrophe where one doesn't even belong isn't a sign of laziness - laziness would involve leaving OUT an apostrophe where one ought to have been. Dropping them in where they don't belong is signs of a cognitive issue, and brings into question the meaningfulness of the entire post.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Show me a politician not backed up by some lobby group (BTW nice euphemism for bribery) founded by some corporation. I'm not talking here about some obscure name from some obscure state but the ones from the federal level.
This is a classic problem of correlation and causation. Please tell me what evidence I should look for from an outside perspective to tell the difference between the following two situations?
1) Corrupt Senator looking for a big payout. Big Oil (or Environmentalism, Wall Street, or whatever group you want) goes to him and says, "vote this way, we'll fund your next campaign $10M." Corrupt Senator does so.
2) Principled Senator thinks that new technologies for energy are too risky and expensive, so votes against subsidies to solar due to his earnest belief and principles. Big Oil sees Principled Senator, likes having him in congress, so donates $10M to his campaign.
Putting that aside, some politicians on the national level which fit your criteria (putting aside if you agree with their positions, just that they have principles) are Ron Wyden (Oregon) and Bernie Sanders (Vermont).
Note I am referencing them by reputation, so it's possible that if you do some digging some of them may have skeletons. I just don't know of any for those two.
There's your reason.
Kickbacks.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
ftfy
You should check your sarcasm detector, it seems to be broken...
Do the needful
No need to have a locsl Dean. Admin is done just as good (or bad) anywhere else. actually the only people truly needed locally are the janitors. That is until robots can do it. Hell we could even ship students offshore.
And now I'm coming to grips with giving my 14 year old daughter a smartphone worth $400-$800. For two years tops. And $50/month for service. In two years that's more money than my first PC cost. And the phone line for the modem. And the modem.
Some of our pain is self-inflicted.
Just get her a flip phone with cricket or whatever pre-paid equivalent you have in your area. Smartphones are great, but I feel like young teenagers don't have the capacity for responsible cell phone use.
Passing savings on? What kind of commie talk is this. Real capitalism is asking the highest price the market will bear.
And real free markets is refusing to pay a dime more than you absolutely must.
As we respond from our government computers - all made in China.
Who took my red stapler?
It's been proven it's a corrupt mechanism that is harming the local economy and contributing to the downfall of the U.S. Get rid of it, and jail anyone that tries to circumvent it. Sure, some companies will threaten to leave, and exactly zero of them will, because they know they won't get a better deal elsewhere.
That's the first thing that needs to get fixed right now, before it is too late.
Unfortunately you USians are doing your damnest to destroy what's left of democracy all over the world.
Oh look at the little euro-cuck flapping his mouth about something of which he knows nothing. You're not free in the EU so don't even pretend to lecture anyone else.
/. and get back to paying taxes so that those muzzie immigrants get more free shit.
Does your king/queen allow you to use words like "democracy"? Nice freedom of speech over there where you can literally be arrested for saying the wrong thing on twitter.
Does your wife's muzzie boyfriend allow you out of the house or do you have to sit and listen while he "rapes" her? You're not even allowed to fight him off if he was or you'd be arrested for assault!
Now stop posting on
... and not once have I ever seen a transition to contract labor, especially off shore contract labor, do a satisfactory job.
Not once.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
As a group categorically refuse to train their replacements. If one person says they're going to do it, the administration can single that person out and make an example out of them. When the entire staff locks arms and says "no". What can they do then?
1. Proceed with firing them... That's great except for the problem where all the knowledge goes out the doors.
2. Lock them out... Except they only manage the physical access, so they're not sysadmins, nor know how to close accounts, etc.
3. Lawyer up and sue them for breach of contract or terms of employment?
I suspect the last option would likely be what they'd do, but if that happened what then? If my companies suing me for refusing to train my replacement, I don't see any incentive to train my replacement.
The whole thing seems like a fluster cluck from top to bottom.
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
they haven't managed to patent foodstuffs to the point of having a monopoly yet.
The food industry does ask the highest price the market will bear. They can't gouge like education or health because there are lots of suppliers of food, unlike suppliers of education or health, who each undercut each other slightly to gain a slightly larger marketshare (and thus more profit overall than the alternative), which in aggregate drives the price that the market will bear down toward the cost of producing the food.
To make education or health care more like food, we'd need to increase the number of education and health care suppliers, or rather somehow make it easier for someone to go into business supplying education or health care and let the search for profit do the rest.
Of course, with education at least, a significant chunk of demand is not for the education per se -- it's easier than ever to actually learn things from many different sources. It's the status conferred by the organization that declares you to be educated. Increasing the supply of such status requires more than just increasing the supply of educators, but somehow increasing the pool of institutes that employers et al consider sufficiently status-conferring. That is a harder problem.
-Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
Glad to see someone else properly distinguishing between the two.
Of course, they're not mutually exclusive either, and it's possible that this situation in question is actually capitalism in action, not just the free market.
-Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
You're not familiar with the 'plural you' ?
Not in the way you used it, "pal."
Are you familiar with just owning up to being wrong, fucker?
"His name was James Damore."
Yeah, because such a thing totally exists. Right next to the the Mplumbers and the PhCarpenters.
Fuck these guys, seriously. No matter what spin BS they try to put on it, it's only to save money. Will that money saved mean lower fees? Like hell it will.
Right up there with corporations that want to:
- drive efficiency
- encourage innovation
- downsize for success
- become a leaner, more agile.
-
All they mean is "we want to shed heads so we can make our share-price look good" and push workloads onto people already overloaded.
We do have laws concerning hiring foreigners before citizens.
Seems those laws are not followed either. Businesses and this college are hiring lawyers to find out how to hire foreigners over citizens. Video on YouTube.
Politicians allow it without changing our laws. Politicians are ANTI-AMERICAN WORKER.
The University of South Carolina did a big 10 year contract with IBM Global services. All H1B. Same outcome. This is IBM's business model aside from the pump'n'dump known as Watson.
The next step is other gov't departments. This is what passes for innovation.
Uh, Welding Engineer. Look it up.
And the MPlumbers go by "Mechanical Engineers with specialization in fluid dynamics"
and the PhCarpenters are Civils.
First: The AMA is not a labor union. Also, as the years have gone by it has been gradually morphing into a political group. Most doctors are smart enough not to form/join a labor union and are smart enough to know that political goals can be achieved better by political organizations.
Second: Contrary to popular opinion, most doctors do not belong to the AMA.
If I were a UCSF IT employee, and if I thought I'd have a hard time getting another job, I'd be willing to keep my job at a lower salary.
Can UCSF offer their current employees a lower salary? Doing this would help UCSF, because the employees who stayed would be experienced.
If UCSF's HR/contracts department was able to fire current employees and bring in new HCL employees under a new contract, then they should be able to figure out a way to lower the salaries. If all else fails, maybe they can eliminate the current jobs, and then re-create the same jobs at a lower salary, and offer the jobs first to the current employees.
Jimmy Carter spent his presidency appeasing evil men all over the world, and completely trashing the US economy - these things had bad side-effects.
Domestically, millions of Americans suffered severe economic distress and never recovered from the economic damage (earnings lost in your early career cannot generally be made-up since you lose the compounding effects on investments etc). Families broke up over the financial stresses, people committed suicide (yeah the horror show leadsto the "dogs and cats were living together..." nod to Bill Murray). Rather than admit his failures, the man blamed the American people claiming they were suffering from"malaise" and THAT was why the economy was bad. He told them to ignore the gas rationing and ride bicycles, ignore the cold and home heating oil shortages and just wear sweaters. His buddies in the press churned-out stories about how it was not Jimmy's fault - EXPERTS were saying the world had become too complexfor any one man to manage.
Internationally, Jimmy decided that the exiled Ayatoylla was a "ghandi-like" peaceful guy in robes who should be allowed to leave France and return to Iran where his Islamic revolution woud make the people of Iran peaceful and happy.... this kicked-off almost 40 years of international Muslim terrorism.
Jimmy started "Habitat for Humanity" to try to raise his reputation above that of Benedict Arnold in his post-presidency and THAT has worked out well for some needy folk but also helpedin its primary task of political rehabilitation. His Carter Center, on the other hand, is quite evil and embraces every international dirtbag that is convenient and every globalist Anti-American wet dream. The true rehabilitator of Carter is going to be the combination of the Calendar (most now are too young to remember how close this man came to trashing America during the Cold War when such failure would have been VERY BAD) and Obama who has actually delivered LESS economic growth than Carter and worse worker participation rates. To be fair: Obama has not produced gas rationing, double-digit inflation, and double-digit interest rates. He probably has matched the double-digit unemployment, but the press is cooperating in reporting phoney numbers - they report percent of workforce getting unempoyment benefits as the unemployment rate, rather than reporting percent who are unemployed. (Hint: you cannot have a nation of approx 320 million, which census data says about 198 million are "working age" [18 to 65], and have 95million of those workers out of the work force, and then honestly claim unemployment is below 20%)
Orange county is now a liberal hell hole. The congressional district there that used to be represented by "B-1 Bob" Dornan (a Republican veteran military pilot who served on the armed services comittee and got his nickname insisting on actually flying and evaluating the B1 himself instead of just buying the marketing hype from the defense contractor) is now represented by one of the extremely left-wing pro-open-borders Sanchez sisters.
San Diego county which used to be dominated by a combination of defense workers and active and retired Navy and Marine personnel used to be politically and socially conservative, and majority WASP is now an increasingly secular, Hispanic, gay-friendly place peppered with pot shops. If you drive by a San Diego county school that in the 1970s or 1980s was 80% white, you notice that the kids there now are 95% Hispanic. You're free to see these things as positive developments if you choose, I'm not arguing about whether this is good or bad, but my point is that the demographics, industries, and politics have shifted dramatically.
California was the recipient of most of the illegal aliens who got amnesty and then citizenship in the 1986 amnesty deal - which promised amnesty for about 4 million in exchange for a permanent securing of the border so no amnesty would ever happen again. The post cold war defense cuts eliminated many military bases, downsized/re-aligned others, and eliminated all the big defense contractors like Convair which had built the Atlas rockets and the payload bays of the space shuttles in Kearny Mesa (northern part of San Diego). For the movie fans: NAS Miramar, the home of Top Gun, is no longer a Naval Air Station - it is now MCAS Miramar (a Marine air base) and home to mostly helicopters and Ospreys (the Top Gun school is now out at Fallon). The Navy boot camp in San Diego is now a combination of civilian apartments and shooping centers.
Democrat Governor Jerry "moonbeam" Brown and the Democrat legislators who have 2-to-1 super majorities in the State Assembly and State Senate have been bragging in 2016 about the record-breaking revenue gathered by the Franchiose Tax Board. There is More money available to the state government than at any time in California History, by a large margin.
The problem is that liberals can never limit their appetite for spending. Jerry Wants his 60+ Billion dollar non-high-speed (it's NOT a French TVG or even an Acela, it won't out-race a car) train-to-nowhere (it won't link San Diego, LA, Santa Barbara, Sacramaneto and SF. It's just going from a rural spot NorthEast of LA to a point further North, possibly Fresno). The state wants huge K-12 and College education spending (Teachers' union is single biggest source of political cash in California, followed by other state worklers unions and indian tribes). The state spends huge sums on handouts to the poor, which it keeps making more of with anti-industry rules and importing more of with open borders supporters. California cares for EVERYBODY, except the hard-working middle-class tax payers and small business operators. The only businesses the stae loves are Google, Apple, Facebook etc which make huge piles of cash and make NOTHING in California.
The UC system is currently run by Hillary's friend and former Anita Hill lawyer Janet_Napolitano, hardly a right winger. Also, Hillary called TPP (which she helped negotiate and which will remove all limits on outsourcing, offshoring, and importing of cheap labor) "the gold standard in trade agreements" before switching during the campaign and opposing it while her buddy Democrat governor Terry McAuliffe was telling people she will flip back into support of it after she gets elected.
Yes, in the post-Bill-Clinton-world of free trade with commie China, Trump makes things like ties and shirts in China like nearly all the vendors he competes with, however he builds all his big American products (golf courses, resorts, skyscrapers) in the USA (though obviously he builds his foreign buildings in the countries where they arelocated). Yes,sadly he makes his small [relatively] cheap products in China under current rules, but he has said he will return that work to the US after the rules are changed for everybody including his competitors.
Hillary has no experience making ANYTHING and there's zero evidence she is in any way concerned with making things in America.
Want more of the economy of the past 7 years? Vote Hillary.
Want change? The you have to do something different to get different results: vote for the guy the establishments of BOTH parties despise: Trump.
Want all the big money out of politics? Hillary has spent over a hundred million dollars on ads trashing Trump, and most of that money comes from super-wealthy supporters and Wall St bankers (she has never made any product to earn that money). Trump has spent next to nothing. This is a once-in-a-lifetime chance to put somebody in office who owes nothing to Wall St bankers. If Hillary wins, you will likely NEVER see a reduction in campaign cash in your lifetime, but if Trump wins, every politician, ad meister, pollster, campaign consultant, lobbyist, pundit and columnist will have to seriously re-consider the role of money in elections.
You idiots who get your "news" from late night comics cannot resist outing yourselves with that childish "Drumpf" nonesense.
Trump was born with the last name "Trump" - he was NEVER named "Drumpf". You think you're being clever by insisting that he ought to go by some name a low-quality stand-up quasi-comic claims an ancestor of his had.
How about we use some REALITY and TRUTH on your hero politicians?
1. Is Barack Obama's name "Barry Soetoro"? He actually used that name for himself as a younger man. No imagination by comics is needed. (note: the college ID card image circulating on the net with that name on it is a photoshop job, but he DID use that name)
2. Was Barack Obama born in Kenya? I happen to believe he was born in Hawaii, but his own literary agent (not some right-wing enemy) listed him as born in Kenya all the way up until 2007 just as he began his run for President. You don't have to get that from some late-night comic or from some enemy of his.
3. Was Hillary Clinton named after Sir Edmund Hillary? She claimed it and even her fans at Politifact confirm both that she claimed it and that it was not reasonably true given that Sir Edmund Hillary was not yet famous at the time she was born.
Need I go on to further illustrate how dumb, childish, and hypocritical you "Drumpfers" are?
All this shouting about the few people Trump imports to work seasonal jobs at several properties, while most of his thousands of employees are US Citizens, is nothing but a distraction from a fact we are intended not to notice: Hillary has never employed ANY US citizens to do productive private sector jobs. She has landed her supporters some jobs in government or at the Clinton Foundation, none of which make ANYTHING of substance. Hillary has no experience employing people in the private sector doing actual productive work.
If a third party wants votes - let them earn it the right way. You don't run for president every four years... you need to be at the grassroots running for every office. Where's the libertarian candidate for postmaster, the green candidate for dogcatcher ? Run for those offices, prove your ideas at the ward level by running for seats at the low level and slowly wiinning. Then run for the councils of small towns and when you have a bunch of councilors then you run somebody for mayor of them. Prove your ideas in the towns that bite.
When you got a mayor in a 30% or more of the towns, then start running for cities and metros in the same way. When you got a bunch of those - THEN you can run for state government and eventually get some governors.
And then - 20 years from now,THEN you'll be a viable third party who can run for congress and the white house.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Wow, buthurt much, Donald?
I live in Brat's district. He's a Tea Party douche-nozzle who sides with the plutocrats every time he votes on a bill. He's just as bought as the rest of them. Plus, he doesn't govern -- he grandstands.
'Brat' is a wholly appropriate name.
'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
I live in Brat's district. He's a Tea Party douche-nozzle who sides with the plutocrats every time he votes on a bill. He's just as bought as the rest of them.
So you don't like his politics, so you consider him "bought", even though it's bullshit. In fact, the "Tea Party" association is bullshit, too. He was tagged with it even though he never did anything to associate himself with any tea party groups and pointed it out. Nice confirmation bias you have going on, there.
Brat is representing his constituents, and doing a great job of it. That's not something that can be said of the rep he ousted, Eric Cantor. Cantor represented himself and the big banks, and that's about it.
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
One of the two candidates in our upcoming presidential election has promised to fix the H-1B problem and the other has not.
I suspect IT workers in California will still vote "D" come November believing that Democrats actually care about the working class.
If not they need any public funding withdrawn, and get the ITT Treatment with regards to student loans.
(If at first you don't succeed, do it different next time!)
http://www.petition2congress.c...
Casteism
The first step towards socialism - a justice system and police force paid for through taxation. Laws banning slavery, forcing universal suffrage, universal justice, universal taxation, sexual equality, racial equality, banning the buying and selling of children and use of children as sex slaves, etc.
Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
Bernie Sanders?
How much cheaper is it for an entity to outsource an IT department than to manage it's in-house staff, or a US based shared IT services company?
Isn't the competition in the states good enough that US companies can compete with global providers?!
If not, then should the US implement an 'equalizing' policy such that supplanting US jobs to foreign sources costs as much to do as it costs to keep jobs in the US?!
Could the US inflate foreign economies so that their workforce costs are at parity with our own?!
IF money (i.e. 'bottom line') were no objective, wouldn't jobs and education both benefit?
Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.