Slashdot Mirror
Prominent Drupal, PHP Developer Kicked From the Drupal Project Over Unconventional Sex Life (techcrunch.com)
An anonymous Slashdot reader writes: Last week the Drupal community erupted in anger after its leader, Dries Buytaert, asked Larry Garfield, a prominent Drupal contributor and long-time member of the Drupal and PHP communities, "to leave the Drupal project." Buytaert claims he did this "because it came to my attention that he holds views that are in opposition with the values of the Drupal project." A huge furor has erupted in response -- not least because the reason clearly has much to do with Garfield's unconventional sex life. [Garfield is into BDSM, and is a member of the Gorean community, "a community who are interested in, and/or participate in, elaborate sexual subjugation fantasies, in which men are inherently superior to women."] Buytaert made his post (which is now offline) in response after Larry went public, outing himself to public opinion. Buytaert retorted (excerpt available via TechCrunch): "when a highly-visible community member's private views become public, controversial, and disruptive for the project, I must consider the impact [...] all people are created equally. [sic] I cannot in good faith support someone who actively promotes a philosophy that is contrary to this [...] any association with Larry's belief system is inconsistent with our project's goals [...] I recused myself from the Drupal Association's decision [to dismiss Garfield from his conference role] [...] Many have rightfully stated that I haven't made a clear case for the decision [...] I did not make the decision based on the information or beliefs conveyed in Larry's blog post." TechCrunch columnist Jon Evans goes on to "unpack" the questions that naturally arise from these "Code of Conduct conflicts."
It seems like they don't practice what they preach. Sounds like SJW idiocracy. Their security guy must be a real closet case. As in preachy/crazy
Today I learned that Drupal had rules about sex. It must be for a plug-in.
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
It's wrong for (white) men to subjugate women, demean them, or harass them in the office.
Except if you are into BDSM involving fantasies of sexual slavery of women. Or you're a muslim. Or non-white.
Got it.
Burn him at the stake!
A christian, hebew or Muslim about their religion - they're into the same stuff! Men dominating women. And in the original texts of Hebrew is the basis of sharia law.
So does that mean we need to kick all Cananite religions from all computing projects?
What about medicine? Would you want a Hebrew doctor to serve you and save your life? I would!
Does America teach history or thinking anymore?
>Buytaert claims he did this "because it came to my attention that he holds views that are in opposition with the values of the Drupal project. [...]in which men are inherently superior to women."]
This is crazy. Who cares about his sex life? Aren't we above that type of thing??? Besides, such role-playing sex fantasy has nothing to do with men being "superior" to women, in fact, it is often the other way around and still has nothing to do with "real life".
This is not a social club or religion, it is a set of computer program tools. It would be difference if his CODING or PROJECT philosophy ran contrary to the the group, because that is actually related to the project. Even then there should be some amount of tolerance.
I abhor some of the political correctness going around, but generally I am intolerant of intolerance. Hopefully others in the Drupal project agree.
Everything that is not SJW, including BDSM, is hated by SJWs. So much for "diversity". Which sexual niche is next? Promiscuous men? Obviously, only rapists want to sleep with many women. Porn? Exploitation of women! Except of course if its porn for women, then its "liberation".
SJWs are on the path to getting worse than the church.
And the worst thing of them all is, they push their human hating agenda into technical communities that have nothing to do with any of these things. Its sad how the democrats are infested by that filth.
The word you're looking for is "Jewish."
"Jewish."
Here is the correct link to Dries' blog post on the subject: http://buytaert.net/living-our-values
Irony is that the 'living our values' blog post is anything but living our values in the Drupal community.
SJW only allow missionary position, anything else is sinful and displeases misogyny God.
They got Colin Moriarty a couple of weeks ago at Kinda Funny Games too. Trump's election has produced a SJW hysteria where even conventional conservative views are no longer tolerated anywhere in the tech/entertainment industry in particular (or Silicon Valley/Southern California in general). Everyone not fully embracing the SJW agenda is being purged from their jobs. This poor guy got fired just for participating in sex roleplay that the SJW's don't like.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
"when a highly-visible community member's private views become public, controversial, and disruptive for the project, I must consider the impact"
I guess you'll be resigning now then.
what anyone else is into? I'd fire this "Buytaert" Drupal-values jackass in a heartbeat if he worked in my company - this is going to go Streisand 100%++ very, very quickly.
Now we need to install BDSM and Gorean bathrooms to keep the SJWs happy? Or can they just use the transvestite one?
Who cares? I just made a mental note to never use Drupal and recommend against it.
His private life shouldn't be of concern to the company unless it affects his work directly.
If he gets off on that it's his choice some women seem to be into that kind of thing (each to their own).
Unless it's illegal then I fail to see why it's not unfair dismissal.
"If you haven't done anything wrong then you have nothing to hide."
Privacy ain't about breaking the law, its about not getting persecuted cause you like to wear fur underroos and tie your wife up when you get a little randy.
This has nothing to do with "the drupal community" and everything to do with "ew, ick, i don't like how someone else likes to have sex the freak! We have to get rid of him and i'll just be over here looking at pictures of women's feet while rubbing my crotch with a burrito thank you!"
Now, if he was a pedo, or a rapist, or liked to drug women for sex... i could see that being a problem. But this guy likes to pretend he's on a different planet where giant mantis aliens are forcing the best looking men and women to breed each other and live a barbarian lifestyle. So friggin what? Are we gonna kick out everyone who liked 50 Shades of Ignorance next?
What if a male employee/contributor were into being dominated by women? Would that be OK?
slashdot: A failed experiment.
Binary Solution Set
If Consensual, it's nobody's business but the participants, and certainly not the business of the project.
If Non-Consensual, call the police.
To be outed as a Drupal developer.
Isn't anyone who develops using Drupal or PHP into BSDM?
Remember him?
He who expressed views privately and had no evidence of misbehavior in the office?
Love the consistency in the responses.
they shrivel and contaminate everything they touch. i wish we could use the methods they approve of to silence and banish them.
People should be free to believe and fantasize as they want. No one should be excluded for have different views. It's too much of a slippery slope. People should only be accountable for their actions and to a limited extent their ability to reasonably interact with others by the established consensus of a common code of conduct.
Just because a belief isn't from an established religion doesn't mean it can be arbitrarily discounted by the majority. There is way too much of this Social Justice bullshit going on. It's just code. Code should not be attached to any social addenda one way or the other. It's those that call for such that should be publicly outed and pitied for they are far more dangerous than those that think the world is flat.
That's wonderful to watch a bitch scream and die.
Open Source has plenty of infighting over belief systems. But this? Say what? We are talking about an excellent developer\contributor. So what if he is into that style of BDSM. So are the adult consenting women. What exactly is Dries trying to communicate here? Intolerance? Is he a Christian? If so, so what. This is the height of dumnfuckery and makes the whole project look bad. How does making the project look bad fit in with values of the project? Because that is what Dries is doing.
Alternative: There is some serious bad blood between the two and Dries is acting like a child trying to find a shred of anything to get rid of Larry and is making himself and the project look bad in the process.
I say down with Dries. Off with his head.
Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
The URL above is incorrect. Buytaert's response is here:
http://buytaert.net/living-our...
Gor is both a lifestyle and a philosophy to some. To others it's just a way to enjoy BDSM or power exchange sex play. It's founded on a set of books written by John Norman that state repeatedly that pretty much all women secretly want to be enslaved and brutally raped by a Real Man. This is at direct odds with the "Safe, Sane Consensual" rule espoused by most power exchange communities. To truly and deeply participate in a Gorean lifestyle is to utterly disavow gender equality, at least in those circles.
If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
Why should anything matter other then GOOD CODE????
As an aside - Gor? By that they mean the crappy not so great SciFi books of the late 70's? Wow they even still in print?
Men are inherently superior to women... So...
I'm trying to keep track here. Do we have to remove Gorean from the Gender list now?
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Why do I get the feeling things would have gone completely differently if this developer had been into femdom, where the woman dominates the man?
No recourse, no labor boards, no money. Just Mob.
Its just that women that are submissive in Gor. There are male slaves to women too... but who cares about being honest.
Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.... nope, still doesn't work.
This is why I stay away from open source or self-professed "change the world" projects these days. They attract too many nutjobs who are in it for more than just the code. The bigger the project, the more of these parasitic political people there are--they live off the real coders who do the actual work.
PHP? Pfft.
Well, on the bright side, this tells me to stay far, far away from the Drupal project and anything it produces. They're far more interested in pushing their political agenda (or virtue signalling, at least) than putting out quality software, which is a rather massive strike against trusting their code, particularly in an era where security is so important and many are willing to go to extreme lengths to achieve their political goals.
Why the fuck would I care about a developer's sex life? Who gives a shit how he fucks as long as he doesn't fuck up the code he delivers?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I remember the days when it was republicans and conservatives discriminating against people because of their sexual preferences.
Easy decision: is it legal? If not, let him face justice. Otherwise, it looks like a ban for opinions. Fine, but Drupal will have to set up a list of allowed or forbidden opinions. That will not be pretty.
Ladies and Gents, have an understanding of privacy. Do politicians get privacy? NO! Politicians' is a servent to it's country and citizens. If your job is not in MASS MEDIA like acting, Politicians' then there should be private life for those humans that have a different profession. If a developer lost his job, it should be based on the following, is he/she able to hurt themselves or others? Private fantasies should be removed from the work place.
I SUPPORT EQUAL RIGHTS AND RITES.
My Bible says that the wife needs to obey her husband. I know that the Bible was written in the days of no form of transportation before there was vehicles.
Also, the Bible was written in the Days when Humans used to wash their feet with water and soap.
There is other religion faith that is as real as the Bible. Like Buddhism, Hinduism. Did you know that some forms of Buddhism has a creator?
IN THIS MODERN CENTURY, SOME LADIES IS THE BOSS LIKE BEING A CEO AND ENCHARGE OF COLLEGES.
WELL SAID, WE LIVE HERE AND NOW, NOT WHEN THE PERSIANS RULED.
WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE LIBERALS THAT FIRST CAME TO AMERICA TO CREATE THE 13 COLONIES AND CREATED THE CONSTITUTION REMAINS FREE. THE LIBERAL IDEAS OF "FREEDOM OF SPEECH" THE IDEAS OF "THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS" , ETC.
** Conservatives believes that they are the only ones that can speak freely. Like, Hitler, Royal Family, Ancient Churches of Rome and Europe.
Dries post is still up:
http://buytaert.net/living-our...
-Myke
My polite self encourages me to agree that this is just another double standard; it's evil when men do it, and empowering when women do it.
My not-so-polite self screams "this is what happens when a mangina encounters a real man."
So, there you have it.
'Drupalisms' are getting weirder.
Maybe he was too good compared to the rest of the PHP team?
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
So the guy's a pervert: does that mean his code quit working? Is he trying to fuck other contributors? Has he done anything to anyone without their consent?
I've worked with plenty of people in my time who are into things that I don't approve of, from voting for socialists to trying to be Heinlein characters, but if they don't bring it to the office, it's none of my business. That goes double for an open-source project where they're donating their work.
Enough with the goddamned neo-puritans. There's work to be done, for fuck's sake.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Do problems like this have anything to do with the bizarre user-level error messages that Drupal likes to throws off when it is misconfigured?
Perhaps he should get some guru meditation.
THIS pretty much.
If he's not abusing coworkers or his spouse/significant other, and his work is good, it should not matter how he chooses to fly his flag. I don't care. Probably almost nobody using Drupal has even heard of the guy, much less worried about his hobbies.
Sig for hire.
This whole thing just lets the Drupal project humblebrag that it still has developers... the project is dying https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=drupal
Gotta be tolerant. Have to be. It is intolerable to not be tolerant. Unless people have different opinions and beliefs, in which case they must be intolerant, and then you must be intolerant of their intolerance. Just be careful you don't become intolerant of your own intolerance because that would be intolerable.
Chewbacon
The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
Everyone seems to be convinced this wouldn't happen to a women in the same situation. I wonder if this is grounds for discrimination a lawsuit?
He probably should. Even if he doesn't win, it will publicize what kind of people are running drupal.
Backdrop also looks nice if your into CMS scene. No need to waste time supporting projects run by intolerant dipshits.
People who care about social issues wouldn't give a shit.
It's the right wing puritans from the far side of crazy who want to carefully regulate what is going on in the bedrooms.
Didn't the massive fuss over a bared nipple at the superbowl teach you anything?
Like seriously 1/2 of my online social circle, split between ultra liberal and ultra conservative people are heavily into BDSM, whether just between them and their partner, or full on sex club/exhibition/swinging bdsm activities.
That is excluding ones into unusual fetishes without BDSM/sex club activities too.
There is nothing correct about it.
It's puritanism.
It's coming from the opposite direction from the people who want fairness, truth and less blackface "humor".
Turns out that a non zero number of social justice people are puritans. Not everything is from the far right boogeyman.
If he wasn't attempting to impose his preferences and was instead having a sex life with consenting partners and a consenting community, what business is it of the project or Buytaert?
There's a whole world of sexual preferences out there that may or may not offend some part of the community. Furries? Diapers/"adult infants?" Feet? Dominance/Submission (which I think is distinct from BDSM)? Homosexuality? Poly?
Heck, I'm not into that BDSM and even I know that there are wide variations even in the BDSM community, some of which Buytaert probably wouldn't even care about. Just offhand I know that there are people into spanking, piercings/body mods (is this tied in?), rope bondage, and probably things I've never heard of or considered along with the "traditional" portrayal of BDSM with restraints and floggers, crops etc.
I'm a vanilla white boy from the midwestern suburbs, but I'm pretty sure that taken as a whole those "alternative sexuality" communities are overall much more accepting of kinks (YKIOKBINMK) and also more sensitive to people being coerced or (involuntarily) mistreated than almost all of the Good Citizens that I went to High School with.
(YKIOKBINMK = Your Kink Is OK But Is Not My Kink)
fencepost
just a little off
Dries Buytaert "ask[ed] Larry [Garfield] not to participate in the Drupal project" and Buytaert said his choice Buytaert said was based in part on "confidential information that I've received" about "omissions in Larry's blog post" concerning Garfield's sex life leading Buytaert to "[suffer] from varying degrees of shock and concern". Yet open source long prided itself on being a developmental methodology which eschews certain outside considerations, most notably software freedom. Software freedom is not relevant for consideration on its own merit, and a user's software freedom is an issue that needlessly drives away open source's principal audience—businesses. Therefore it was understandable, even if one disagreed, when an open source advocate would chastise the free software movement along the lines of including such foreign concerns like ethics into what makes software free and how one ought to treat others with regard to computers and software. Apparently other outside concerns are more acceptable and open source (a developmental methodology) values more than just development released under an OSI-approved license to make software which "drive[s] innovation" resulting in a promised "higher quality, greater reliability, more flexibility, lower cost, and an end to predatory vendor lock-in".
In an update to his blog post, Buytaert also says that Garfield will be deplatformed (as the neologism goes), "the Drupal Association made a decision not to invite Larry to speak at DrupalCon Baltimore or serve as a track chair for it" presumably for the same secret reasons that so shocked and concerned Buytaert—Buytaert "can't get past the fundamental misalignment of values" wherein "Larry has entwined his private and professional online identities". So there's no room for someone who believes in "The Gorean philosophy promoted by Larry [which] is based on the principle that women are evolutionarily predisposed to serve men and that the natural order is for men to dominate and lead.". And this decision comes from the man who is described as "the [Drupal] project's dictator for life, the CTO of a company with powerful influence on the open source project, the president of the Board of Directors".
Digital Citizen
does that mean his code quit working?
Yes, because PHP.
If he was an employee forced to resign the job, sue the shit out of whoever controls Drupal for discrimination.
If he was just a "volunteer contributor", just leave because there's nothing you can do about it. Their turf, their rules.
If you fire Goreans in a tech company, who will then take care of the Al-Gorithms?
Would someone please think of the global warming!
Like the founder of Mozilla, if said conduct is not promulgated or apparent at work then who gives a crap?
The dominant partner of the coprophile?
Look I don't understand what the hangup is with promulgating this sort of thing at work. I can guarantee that if there was a leather-clad dominatrix wielding a whip 'round here I'd be busy cutting code right now instead of commenting on inane threads on slashdot ...
Something doesn't seem right here. Everyone on slashdot and I suspect most of the Western World would agree that what someone's consensual sex life is their own private thing and has nothing to do with an open source project. I find it hard to believe that a person in Dries Buytaert position would publicly ask someone to leave a project in such a way. There has to be more to the story.
If you're going to kick people out for elaborate fantasies, are they going to ban anyone that calls that admin interface user friendly? ;)
I don't mind getting modded down to zero but what sort of idiots modded the whining Godwin rant above up to 5? Comparing a guy getting kicked out of a project to mass murder - how is that insightful?
The spider plant cringed as its owner brought forth the watering can. "I am a spider plant!" it cried indignantly. "How dare you water me before my time! Guards!" it called. "Guards!"
Borin, its owner, placed the watering can on the table and looked at it. "You will be watered," he said.
"You do not dare to water me!" laughed the plant.
"You will be watered," said Borin.
"Do not water me!" wept the plant.
"You will be watered," said Borin.
I watched this exchange. Truly, I believed the plant would be watered. It was plant, and on Gor it had no rights. Perhaps on Earth, in its permissive society, which distorts the true roles of all beings, which forces both plant and waterer to go unhappy and constrained, which forbids the fulfillment of owner and houseplant, such might not happen. Perhaps there, it would not be watered. But it was on Gor now, and would undoubtedly feel its true place, that of houseplant. It was plant. It would be watered at will. Such is the way with plants.
Borin picked up the watering can, and muchly watered the plant. The plant cried out. "No, Master! Do not water me!" The master continued to water the plant. "Please, Master," begged the plant, "do not water me!" The master continued to water the plant. It was plant. It could be watered at will.
The plant sobbed muchly as Borin laid down the watering can. It was not pleased. Too, it was wet. But this did not matter. It was plant.
"You have been well watered," said Borin.
"Yes," said the plant, "I have been well watered." Of course, it could be watered by its master at will.
"I have watered you well," said Borin.
"Yes, master," said the plant. "You have watered your plant well. I am plant, and as such I should be watered by my master."
The cactus plant next to the spider plant shuddered. It attempted to cover its small form with its small arms and small needles. "I am plant," it said wonderingly. "I am of Earth, but for the first time, I feel myself truly plantlike. On Earth, I was able to control my watering. I often scorned those who would water me. But they were weak, and did not see my scorn for what it was, the weak attempt of a small plant to protect itself. Not one of the weak Earth waterers would dare to water a plant if it did not wish it. But on Gor," it shuddered, "on Gor it is different. Here, those who wish to water will water their plants as they wish. But strangely, I feel myself most plantlike when I am at the mercy of a strong Gorean master, who may water me as he pleases."
"I will now water you," said Borin, the cactus's Gorean master.
The cactus did not resist being watered. Perhaps it was realizing that such watering was its master's to control. Too, perhaps it knew that this master was far superior to those of Earth, who would not water it if it did not wish to be watered.
The cactus's watering had been finished. The spider plant looked at it.
"I have been well watered," it said.
"I, too, have been well watered," said the cactus.
"My master has watered me well," said the spider plant.
"My master, too, has watered me well," said the cactus.
"I am to be placed in a hanging basket on the porch," said the spider plant.
"I, too, am to be placed in a hanging basket on the porch," said the cactus.
"I wish you well," said the spider plant.
"I, too, wish you well," said the cactus.
"Tal," said the spider plant.
"Tal, too," said the cactus.
I did not think that the spider plant would object to being watered by its master again. For it realized that it was plant, and that here, unlike on Earth, it was likely to be owned and watered by many masters.
wrongful termination.
This is between two consenting adults? How about you bud out of other people's personal lives.
Must be too triggered to post.
I guarantee you anything involving sexual taboos comes from the right.
Fuck, I have to put up with people who condone and advocate the torture, mistreatment and traumatic murder of innocent animals.
And eat them.
Including horses.
And make openly offensive jokes and insults on my chosen dietary regime.
And I have to TOLERATE them every day, and watch them consume their evil stinking unhealthy steaks.
So I do.
I do tolerate them. I laugh with them. I live with them. I worh with them, and they work with their obviously "insane" vegetarian colleague.
Cause we're adults, not whiney self-important snowflakes. Fuck Drupal.
They should terminate the employment of this neo-fascist manager with prejudice.
And I have to tolerate people that intentionally poison themselves, and their children inside their vehicles, and expect to be allowed to do so, without interference from me. They're called "smokers". And I do tolerate the, quite happily, because there but for the grace of God, go I. And personal liberty. And whatever ...
Fucking world's gone politically "correctly" insane ...
"all people are created equally"
He should be locked up for good if anything if he genuinely believes this.
Can we arrange for Joomla to fail next?
If there's a case for it, it comes from the statement
"participate in, elaborate sexual subjugation fantasies, in which men are inherently superior to women."
The claim presumably being that the person believes this to be the case. What we then have is a free speech issue; is it still acceptable to believe that statement, or is it no longer covered by freedom of speech principles. Either position is problematic.
If it's a wrongful dismissal, then it's better to lawyer up before you start talking about it in public forums. There's a protocol to follow. Might even get crowdfunding from other Gors.
It looks to me like somebody outed this guy, and then he got fired. It didn't sound like he was bringing it to work with him. I wouldn't consider it a frivolous lawsuit.
If it's roleplay, and the participants are able to acknowledge this and function in society while adhering to standard social norms, that's one thing. But to my knowledge, many of the Gorean types are the ones that don't see it as roleplay and see it as a genuine lifestyle. These are people for whom the idea of regressive male/female relations are a fact of life.
If it's roleplay, that's a completely different discussion and it isn't something people should really get worked up over. But one of the big differentiators that I've heard between Goreans and the typical BDSM scene is that the Goreans live it and don't play it.
And you know what, if it means being called an SJW to say that kind of lifestyle and view of other people is fucking horseshit, I'll take that label gladly.
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
Another language I will never learn.
Sorry, I don't participate in retard college. I just come here to program.
On to the list you go: Node.js, Ruby, Drupal.
We almost certain disagree wildly when it comes to politics, and probably other subjects, but that's fine, and I agree with you 100% on this issue. I've done some of the most productive and enjoyable work in my life alongside people with whom I do not share a lot of viewpoints, but it doesn't matter. We were there to do a job, and we worked well together and produced great results, despite our personal differences. Maybe even because of them. And yes, we had some spirited discussions over lunch, but when it was time to work, we worked together.
People's private lives are private. Unless they decide to make it a problem, it's not a problem, and shouldn't get in the way of Getting Shit Done.
Eat the rich.
Larry's belief system is inconsistent with our project's goals
Larry's belief system seems to be that consenting adults can act out in their private life something far less sociopathic than what millions of middleaged women fantasize about over bestselling erotic novels.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
Something struck me as being odd about this story, until I read up on Drupal and the company built to back it ("Acquia"). It seems that Acquia has been preparing for an IPO for the past 5 years or so. Any perceived deviancy in the team may make the deal unattractive for investors. This is all about money, not about values or beliefs. (That's what "protecting the project" means.) I don't imagine that Dries Buytaert actually cares one way or the other about Larry Garfield's private life or beliefs, but he does care about protecting the multi million pound business he has built up.
The Gorean Subculture article on Wikipedia is NSFW.
I recommend to everyone that they visit their Linkedin, visit the Dries profile, and make your opinion known in response to the article he shared on there. With any luck his phone will blow up with pings and he won't be able to hide from his ignorance or moderate the comments before they become visible.
Fuck Dries, call for his resignation.
Sex is just sex.
gives it a year or two, another similar incident will happen. I will never work with people who force their POV upon me. People who do that are same as Nazi, and think their way of thinking is superior. I wonder if they drink, smoke, do drug, and does any deviant things.
And I guarantee that many transsexuals play around on the edge of taboo. It can be what the kick they get is all about.
We have to face the plain and simple truth: There is public and there is private.
Point in case: I recently (again) met a woman who is into Gangbang and porn ( you'd be surprised how many women are). She's smart, independant, witty, well-mannered, can talk for hours about "God and the World" as we say in Germany. She's my age and looks gorgeous. And she fucks like a pornstar (no surprise here) and also loves to have a few guys on her all at once and no problem with indulging in that. This is the type of woman I have the deepest respect and admiration for. I even asked her if she has a friend from her camp, because I'm currently single and would like to have a sweetheart of her format (she's married ... bummer ...).
Yet there is no doubt that people like her (and me) have to be careful about being to outspoken and unphased when talking about our sexlives. Were I am comfortable and have crossed a few inner borders on my perspective on sex, I have to be aware that most people around me haven't and are still squarely in the "average frustrated" camp - men and women alike. I told her that I have the deepest respect and admiration for women "who know how to spread their legs, enjoy herself and f*ck the living daylights out of a good man ... or a few as the case may be" and got a very positive reaction from her. But mentioning this in public we both agreed, would be bound to get the exact opposite reaction. She'd be slutshamed (the most careful woman with condoms ever) and I would be called a misogynist, despite being the exact opposite ... I usually give women a surplus of respect and sometimes more than they deserve.
Bottom line:
I can totally understand if a project lead wants to keep his project clean of these errrm " unconventional" things. We all live in a culture and have to have some groundrules we follow. Keeping an unusual sexlife to yourself or only with people whom it concerns is a huge part of that.
My 2 eurocents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Is it? Suppose, he was into homo rather than heterosexual subjugation... Do you suppose, they would've banished him just as well — even if he were open about it?
Of course...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
There was some research a few years ago now in the UK. Big study - some tens of thousands of participants. Goal was to understand the origin and function of adult sexual fantasy. So, it's just research, not the word of God; but it's interesting - what the study found was that sexual fantasy in adults appears to be a coping mechanism for stress. The fantasy is a recapitulation, often modified, of an original trauma. Basically, when we are traumatized, we have trauma, and trauma has *expression*. It's like being shot. If you're shot, there's a hole, blood, bits of bone, etc. You can't *be* shot and not have that. Similarly, to *be* traumatized means you hurt, you're in pain, etc. It's there. The subconscious mind seems to hide traum from the conscious mind, presumably so we can continue to function. However, the expression of the trauma *will go somwhere*. It's like water pressure. If you have a mass of pipes and put water into them, it doesn't matter what you do with the pipes - block them, change them around, whatever. The water *will go somewhere*. In this case, what seems to be happening is that trauma defines the sexual fantasy. Almost all people fantasize, and there is almost always a *theme*, around which the fantasies revolve. The theme is the original trauma. The fantasy is a way of letting out, of expressing, the harm of the traum. Often the fantasy modifies the original traumatic event to make it more bearable - if someone was abused, they can become the abuser. Sexual fantasy is an extra-ordinary thing. Imagine we fantasize about something which doesn't work for us. Any response? no. Now think about what works for you. What do you see? a profound physiological response. It's incredible - heart rate up, arousal, the body itself becoming very different. This is remarkable. So we see something special is going on here. With regard to BDSM, it looks like with this the origin is a very deep down, very profound *anger*. Whether someone is dominant or submissive doesn't matter - the origin is the same in both cases. What this does mean is that there's no harm in such fantasy or play - it is a symptom only; and indeed, it is most likely a very good thing, since it lets people release the pressure of the trauma, which needs to be expressed, rather than letting it build up. Almost all people fantasize - 94%. Another 3% fantasize only about their own partner. Another 3% have no fantasy at all. I suspect these last few are the only sane, undamaged people amongst use. The rest of us fantasize about people other than our partner - and probably are doing this while engaging in sex with our partner. We in our society talk a lot about extra-marital affairs being wrong - but no one is talking about *intra-marital* affairs, where the married couple are both thinking about other people during sex with each other.
Explains the torture that is working with Drupal.
If they were concerned about his bias towards women in the bedroom translating to outside the bedroom, then shouldn't we be worried about gay men? They clearly don't think women can do the job in the bedroom at all, so they probably don't even hire women right?
Since when does a PHP project have beliefs and values. Project goals should be "Fix X bug" "Implement Y feature"
In reading all these comments, the amount of societal confusion we've engendered has to astound you. You really expect that naïve young people (and we all start out that way) are going to be able to navigate their way through a world like ours and actually find satisfaction in the fundamental areas of life such as sex?? Most people function best with some structure and expectations around them. People left to wander aimlessly are those that really get hurt and taken advantage of. As a society, we've quit caring about each other, and have devolved into an every-person-for-himself mentality, where the weak are there for the abuse by the strong. BDSM is just one example of a pathology we've created. Don't give me the crap about "consent", as people are easily coerced into "consenting" to all sorts of things that later turn out to be harmful to them.
Oh, and don't forget that a person's character and their internal beliefs come out through all of their actions, decisions, words, etc. There's no compartmentalizing a demeaning view of another gender, race, etc. into just the evening or weekend hours. Human beings don't work that way.
The key word in "sexual fantasy" is "fantasy". Lots of people have very politically-incorrect sexual fantasies, but as long as they act them out only with consensual partners and don't let it spill into their professional lives, what's the problem?
How many members of the Drupal 'community' took money out of their pockets to buy tickets to the film "50 Dhades of Grey" then when they learned of someone actually involved in the 'scene' depicted in the movie they felt the need to eject them?
Also, I wasn't aware that an open source project has 'shared community values' - is there some form of document participants are expected to sign/agree to, or is it up to the whims of the board of the 'community'?
I think this sort of issue is inevitable in software. The most effective boardroom personalities are typically focused on controlling their environment and standardizing culture. The most effective Dev's are opposed to this, they are open minded and solution focused. So you're bound to get this :[Insert unusual interest] has been condemned by [Insert company board representative], this has been widely criticized by the development community at large.
The SJW will scream "What a travesty! It shows total intolerance for alternative lifestyles!"
Then they will scream "His lifestyle denigrates women? Burn him alive! This was totally justified!"
The cognitive dissonance will be fascinating to watch.
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
A developer who gets laid?
First they came for the homos, and I did not speak out-
Because I was not a homo.
Then they came for the furfags, and I did not speak out-
Because I was not yiffing in hell.
Then they came for the bondage pervs, and I did not speak out-
Because I was not into BDSM.
Then they came for me- and there was no one left to speak for me.
You know normaly, i would say its wrong of Drupal of doing this, but for any god"Â$"Â$"Â Gorean $%"Â$"Â$"Â$Â" its just right.
When I think of an alternative sex life I think of committed love in a monogomous relationship.
I saw it happen on FireFly once, but it turned out that was at least partly fictional.
I hear there are studies showing people practicing that alternative lifestyle are more likely to be happy. Also that heterosexual marriages last orders of magnitude longer.
Aristotle noted in his Ethics that people who aren't loved as kids end up doing depraved things like eating wood and coal and some become homosexuals.
That makes sense. Next we learn that a major Word Press contributor is into scat. Because some people enjoy wading around a pile of shit.
No, you find LOTS of people who believe in social justice. It's just that significant amounts of social justice are not justice at all.
Socialist Justice Whiners always talk about equality of outcomes, but never talk about equality of effort. If someone succeeds, it's only because they have privilege; it's never because they studied or worked hard.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
I guess this is a meta-post about the posts I see here.
I find it disturbing how common it is for people to respond to an action or statement that upsets them by assigning a label to the person who made that statement or action, and then use that label as an excuse to dismiss the value of the person, thus making it permissible to ignore their ideas without consideration, deny them the privilege of making a case for their point of view, or even express a wish for harm or perhaps commit direct or indirect harm against that person.
In my experience, every person is different, and can wear a lot of different labels, and even conflicting labels, at different points in time. Much, perhaps most, of this labeling is an exercise in laziness and unwillingness to engage with the ideas or actions themselves, granting the person full person-hood and equal inherent worth.
Maybe we need a label for people who do this, so we can dismiss and ignore them because they are not part of our in-group. I think "human" will do.
All you humans, get off my lawn.
And stop dismissing people because you think they belong to some imaginary group that you or someone else invented to stick them in, whether it's "SJWs", "Illuminati", "Libruls", "Deplorables", "Welfare Queens", or what have you. Engage with the ideas, recognize that you don't know everything, but you do know something, and contribute to the conversation without trying to dictate to everyone else. /rant
WALSTIB!
In this case, justice should also be involved with giving people a chance to defend themselves against accusations that their character and essential nature is incompatible with a project they've invested 12 years of their professional life. I believe that if the ones that judged his "case" had approached this problem with empathy and given Larry a chance to say what parts are apart of his subculture and what parts he actually believed in, we'd have a different outcome:
Source: https://www.garfieldtech.com/blog/tmi-part-2
People watch and listen to public figures, their opinions, actions, etc... Now if they would not be so easily influencable, certain political figures would have a hard time selling what they are selling. People would stay true to their own beliefs, they would not change, so bad messages would fall on deaf ears....
Simple, sufficiently accurate generalities start:
1. Almost any person who identifies as "Gorean" is into fairly severe heterosexual, male-dominant BDSM. (Otherwise they're misusing the term wildly, and it's not a common error to do so.)
2. Most men who identify as Gorean support society-wide male subjugation of females. Either that, or they are generally poseurs. (Otherwise they wouldn't bother using that term, and indeed would still be misusing it.)
3. Many people who engage in Gorean role-play don't identify as "Gorean" in real life, nor are they otherwise subject to the generalities in Point #2.
Basically, "Gorean" means a combination of:
A. What the BDSM community calls TPE (Total Power Exchange).
B. Strong opinions on how ANY woman should related to ANY man. (Or to any "true" man.)
Fuss about real-life Part B is a lot easier to justify than fuss about Part A, or of course than about a merely role-played version of Gor
All that said -- I neither know nor care to investigate the particulars of the case, such as: Was the guy just spouting noxious political views in a small group setting, or was he doing so more widely, or did his colleagues feel he was acting on those views toward them?
It might also be worth mentioning that a full set of Gorean views would include:
-- A strong set of professional ethics, different for different professions.
-- A "fuck you" attitude toward anybody who doesn't like how you conduct yourself in your private life.
To err is human. To forgive is good system design.
So tolerant, so progressive.
Webhosting provider boycotting Drupal over this. (Scroll down to red text.) Anyone else? I'll certainly never use their software again.
Then you're really missing the whole point of this story.
Do you also tell Muslims who is and who isn't?
The real truth is that "BDSM" has been mostly normalized and neutered for public consumption.
True hardcore BDSM practitioners are faithful to the core concepts like, you know, Sadism and Masochism. Read up on some hardcore BDSM practitioners. Consent is clearly marginal, and often nonexistent.
And that is how the participants like it. So how do you parse that?
Fuck the PHP community. They are substandard developers clinging to a compromised, shitty language because they lack the skills to learn something superior. Fuck 'em.
No, you've got it utterly backwards. I'm pointing out that this is puritan bedroom enforcement shit from the far side of crazy but people are blaming this on the left who do not care what you get up to in your bedrooms.
It's this sort of puritan fsr right shit that makes people shake their heads and say "only in America".
The ideal of free speech in society is to enable the free exchange of opinion / arguments in order to find the truth. The expression of an opinion that is a contribution to ongoing debate in a society should therefore not be subject to sanctions by any part of that society - thus the concept of whistleblower as well as the freedom to endorse publicly views that are unfashionable.
The examples you offer are illuminating in that they are largely beyond the purpose of free speech as I've suggested it ought to work. However in the case of an employee, it should be the case that they are not SACKED for an opinion unrelated to work, because that is to use employment as a constraint on public discussion. Which is the issue here: is this guys private behaviours and views substantially detrimental to his employability. To my mind no.
Nice strawman you've got there kid. Shame that it doesn't exist.
WTF did you people do in school? Ever thought to crack open a book?
What's with all the GamerGater types coming out of the woodwork? Where is there any info that this was an "SJW" move? Since when do activists shame people for their sexual fantasies and consenting behaviors?
This sounds far more PR related than related to any activism or feminism I've ever known.
Captcha: consent
Frankly he sounds more like a snivelling little coward, real men do not need to oppress the weak to prove their 'superiority'
I'll be short because I've no time:
1) Larry hasn't been kicked, he has been demoted from a promiment community position. His Drupal.org account is still workin and he can comment on issues or post patches.
2) Is not for the sex life but for his opinions. His opinions were visible in other online identities not related to Gorean community or private life sites.
3) Larry was who made this public, and he put the focus on his sexual life. An intelligent movement, he knew all people would support him (as I did initially) but that's not the point.
4) This is a complex issue. At the end Drupal Community is taking too much damage.
BDSM is all about consent, even Gorean stuff. If dude is into Gor then the female participants are turned on by that sort of thing. This is clearly kink shaming. Either Buytaert has an agenda to squeeze that guy out and this is a convenient weapon or Buytaert is a prude of monumental proportions who needs to STFU and go sit in his boring, vanilla, sexless cuck corner. Either way, Buytaert strikes me as a tiny flaccid dick (hopefully not literally).
This isn't so much a SJW thing since a SJW would be more inclined to say "all is fair in love and a minimal subset of wars that I would rather not have to fight", especially at the prospect of kinky sex. I'm guessing those of you who think otherwise have had sex with few or zero actual feminists back when you were in college. I would further guess that if they turned you down / dumped you it was probably because you were a huge douchebag or were so caught up in your conservative, right leaning bs that they assumed you'd be too uptight to be any good in the sack (esp if their girlfriends were invited... yeah you have to be way more open minded and kind to be worthy of that treat). They'd bring out the box full of toys and then you'd panic, yelling about how you should be enough for her or some other such nonsense. Weak.
I married one of those crazy college feminists. We often argue(d) with about the disparities between competing visions of feminism, class struggle, and the divide between *nix and Windows users. Not only is she a bona fide, card carrying SJW but she also is a major nerd (used to do Windows tech support, builds her own computers, uses Linux and Mac because duh, used to flash her Android devices when she was into that platform, works in Epidemiology and getting her Masters in Data Science). I love trotting out her qualifications since she is a bit of a unicorn. Oddly, I know other nerdy unicorns but we're all stuck in the whole young child raising thing so there won't be any wild sexcapades for awhile (the struggle is real yo).
She is NOT into Gor. Too bossy for all that submission even as play hahahaha. The wifey probably would fine with hanging around Gor types so long as she gets to give the slaves orders, too. Don't rat me out about calling her "wifey" as I'll never hear the end of it. :)
It's frightening that we've gone from ReiserRS to this in less than a decade. Like, people still used the code of someone in prison for murder, but now what this guy does in his *VERY* private life means he is unqualified to continue contributing?
Physics is nothing like religion. If it was, we'd have an easier time trying to raise money!
Well it has swung the other way as well where people were being accused of being communist and getting blacklisted etc...
Basically people don't like other people who don't agree with them I guess.
My fav: "inconsistent with our project's goals"... Uh, your software project has sexual goals?
Are you sure the damage isn't done by SJWs infesting the community? What is complex about standing up against rampant PC idiocy? Or do you mean it is complex because of the Acquia IPO? What is complex about that?
The entire point appears to be to pretend that all ills come from "SJWs" whatever the fuck that means today.
Meanwhile in reality a very traditional American right wing boss who thinks he owns people after they have gone home, and is a puritan to boot, has done exactly what Henry Ford (or Rockefeller or Hearst if you prefer them instead), would have done back in the day.
So your theory is that a "traditional right wing boss" is, as he evidently sees it, a defender of women's rights in the workplace. This is good to know.
He can see it any way he likes it but ultimately he's pissing all over somebodies rights and acting like he owns an employee after they have gone home. Thus not what he says he is.
If you look around a lot you'll see examples of a "warm caring boss" who makes noise about rights but is really a reactionary control freak prick - reading or hearing about failed companies is a good place to find them. The dot-com crash had them by the hundreds. You'll find that the bosses that do not make a show of caring are the ones that do not try to control their employees lives out of work time and who respect their employees rights far more than the ones putting on a show.
An example from the 1900s is people arguing against payouts for injured workers with the argument that it would encourage the poor factory workers to injure themselves so they would get a windfall. Of course the people pushing that line did not really care about the injured factory workers, they cared about the threat of legal action and it was just an excuse instead of the social justice line they were pretending to push.
Not incorrect, you're bullshit detector is just not working in this situation. The guy was fired "to protect women" - seriously? He was fired because the boss was a fucking prude that thinks he owns his employees after they go home. It's that simple.