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FreeBSD's New Code of Conduct (freebsd.org)
FreeBSD has a new code of conduct, which is making several people angry. From the blog post: This code of conduct applies to all spaces used by the FreeBSD Project, including our mailing lists, IRC channels, and social media, both online and off. Anyone who is found to violate this code of conduct may be sanctioned or expelled from FreeBSD Project controlled spaces at the discretion of the FreeBSD Code of Conduct Committee. Participants are responsible for knowing and abiding by these rules. Harassment includes but is not limited to: Comments that reinforce systemic oppression related to gender, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, mental illness, neurodiversity, physical appearance, body size, age, race, or religion. Unwelcome comments regarding a person's lifestyle choices and practices, including those related to food, health, parenting, drugs, and employment. Deliberate misgendering. Deliberate use of "dead" or rejected names. Gratuitous or off-topic sexual images or behaviour in spaces where they're not appropriate.
Physical contact and simulated physical contact (e.g., textual descriptions like "hug" or "backrub") without consent or after a request to stop. Threats of violence. Incitement of violence towards any individual, including encouraging a person to commit suicide or to engage in self-harm. Deliberate intimidation. Stalking or following. Harassing photography or recording, including logging online activity for harassment purposes. Sustained disruption of discussion. Unwelcome sexual attention. Pattern of inappropriate social contact, such as requesting/assuming inappropriate levels of intimacy with others. Continued one-on-one communication after requests to cease. Deliberate "outing" of any private aspect of a person's identity without their consent except as necessary to protect vulnerable people from intentional abuse. Publication of non-harassing private communication without consent. Publication of non-harassing private communication with consent but in a way that intentionally misrepresents the communication (e.g., removes context that changes the meaning). Knowingly making harmful false claims about a person.
Physical contact and simulated physical contact (e.g., textual descriptions like "hug" or "backrub") without consent or after a request to stop. Threats of violence. Incitement of violence towards any individual, including encouraging a person to commit suicide or to engage in self-harm. Deliberate intimidation. Stalking or following. Harassing photography or recording, including logging online activity for harassment purposes. Sustained disruption of discussion. Unwelcome sexual attention. Pattern of inappropriate social contact, such as requesting/assuming inappropriate levels of intimacy with others. Continued one-on-one communication after requests to cease. Deliberate "outing" of any private aspect of a person's identity without their consent except as necessary to protect vulnerable people from intentional abuse. Publication of non-harassing private communication without consent. Publication of non-harassing private communication with consent but in a way that intentionally misrepresents the communication (e.g., removes context that changes the meaning). Knowingly making harmful false claims about a person.
... but if I did, I would quit. This is over the top. It feels more like a blanket list of vague infractions to have on hand so that they can rid of anyone they feel like.
Someone at FreeBSD needs a hug.
On the Linux mailing list, "deliberate intimidation" is graded like a gymnastic routine, 1-10 points. Linus has the most points so far.
I kind of want to see what happens if FreeBSD forks into Conservative and Liberal branches. I want to see which side attracts more developers, and which distribution gets more downloads!
This Code of Conduct is based on the example policy from the Geek Feminism wiki.
I am all for equal rights, but feminism is something else entirely.
Free software is all about community. I don't see anything in that list that I would *want* in my community. What's so controversial about having a policy that says you need to not be jerks to each other? This is behavior that would not be tolerated in a workplace or just about anywhere else.
Most sites just condense this down to-
1) Don't be a jerk.
What in the hell is a "dead name"?
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
What in the hell is a "dead name"?
With all due respect, turn in your geek card.
There's this book, the canonical list, whose title literally translates to "The Book of Dead Names", and every geek and nerd I've ever met has heard of it. Many own a copy.
I thought everybody knew that.
Ia f'tagn!
(((non consensual sodomy)))
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Another exhausting but non exhaustive list of banned behaviours.
I don't disagree with any of it, I don't think, I couldn't make it to the end. But what I don't understand is why they can't keep things simple:
"All spaces used by the FreeBSD Project, including our mailing lists, IRC channels, and social media, both online and off, are dedicated to making the best operating system, built by a strong community.
As such any comments in those spaces that are not relevant to the project specifically, or programming in general, are unwanted. Keep it on topic, keep it to the point.
Repeated or egregious violations, as judged by the admins, will result in a ban."
End of.
Oh I dunno. A few people were very anti Damore and used the ingenious strategy of "I have an excellent argument as to why his memo was unacceptable but I've posted it in the past, people didn't accept it so I refuse to rehash it".
It's the Fermat's Margin Note strategy for winning - or at least not losing - slashdot arguments.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
I was quite astonished by it.... I didn't even realize that it was any kind of issue, but all existing employees were expected to read and sign it, and any new hirees will also have to read and sign it before they can start work as well.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Yeah, it doesnt say much for the progress of FreeBSD development when they are focusing on the welfare of a handful a transgendered software developers instead of... you know... the actual operating system they are developing.
What I want to know is why an Operating System development mailing list would talk about such subjects? There has to be better forums for that. If I was writing a Code Of Conduct, I think that I would be telling people not to post politically charged content that has nothing to do with OS development, regardless of subject matter.
They really need to get rid of the "finger" command too.
Those that challenge the person's self elected gender.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
It reads more like typical leftist liberal reasoning; an efficient tool to exclude and shut people down on the vaguest of merits, with complete disregard to a future victim's intentions behind what they said or did. Really, it's not very far from a fascist manifesto in disguise.
FreeBSD obviously feels that this code of conduct, together with the associated concepts of diversity, inclusion and acceptance, will promote the quality, usefulness and innovation of their software.
Let's take the opportunity to run an experiment. In five years, will FreeBSD be strong, admired and above all, be downloaded and used, compared to its less enlightened peers? Which paradigm will prevail?
I propose that we revisit this topic yearly, to assess.
Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
I have a much shorter code of conduct:
Don't be an asshole. If you are behaving as an asshole you are given one chance of behaving like a mature adult, if you don't you can leave.
I can't tell if this is meant as humor/sarcasm, or is presented as an honest opinion.
Just in case it's not humor, and I didn't miss the point: ever heard of the 1%? On the oversimple left-right political axis, guess where most of them fall?
Ever heard of neoliberalism? Even though it's associated with the Democratic party, ultimately it's an extension of Reagan-style economics, and towards the political/economic right (even in the USA).
People towards the right are in control of the vast amount of the USA. They have all the money, and they dominate the attention of the lawmakers.
It's sad that it's getting increasingly hard to stand against them without finding that your community has endorsed highly restrictive and ultimately illiberal things like the new FreeBSD speech codes.
codes of conduct are known for being extremely toxic. if you're someone reading this who doesn't understand that, look at the keywords: is there *anything* positive in them? just look at the word type, and substitute "positive" or "negative" instead of the actual word. then count the two types up, and ask yourself the question, "what kind of person do you think this would attract?"
it would attract two types of people wouldn't it: one that is absolutely terrified of making mistakes - of being the kind of person that the document ACCUSES people of being. and the other type would be precisely the kinds of people MOST LIKELY to ignore such proscriptions and do them anyway.
so what, *exactly*, do you think these kinds of documents achieve? they describe - and attract - the very things that people fear will happen, and at the very best poison (toxify) the working environment for absolutely everyone involved with the project.
a much better approach would be to use something like the bill of ethics (titanians.org). it's effectively a "forth normalised form" document, that "unpacks on demand". it defines what an "ethical act" is, and encourages and invites its upholders to act ethically. that *requires* that the participants think through incidents very carefully but WITHOUT having incredibly dangerous "toxic proscriptive lists"... which are never complete anyway.
This code of conduct applies to all spaces
And what about tabs, f*cking pieces of steaming sh*t? How can you dare to ignore my blank space and indentation identity? What are you, animals? LOL.
Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
Haiku
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
on political correctness.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
You just don't realize that if you ever get the kind of world you keep hoping for, you'll probably be one of the first to go in the dustbin.
It is literally impossible to adhere to these restrictions, and most of the people violating them would do so purely by accident. I love the weird logic of neurodiversity too, this is basically pretending people with mental disabilities are A OK, or something. How do you know what anyone's preferred pronoun is before you ask them? Most people just ask for names, and infer pronouns - especially online. See, if you want to promote a good message you put out something along the lines that we should cherish our differences, you don't start the Third Reich. We can only pray that FreeBSD forks, and the retards that came up with this nonsense get what they asked for, namely, an exodus.
Nothing spells fascism better than a boatload of regulations about how constrained you should be around others... and most importantly what you are allowed to say or not(Hugs ffs?)
I love how those old school stereotypes about religions, nationalities and what not, used to be a thing to joke about, but now you can get shot if you do this.
Fuck this shit.
I have been making bad and good jokes here about public faces, but last month I did a pro trump - antihilary joke and I got a message that I have 2 foes. half a decade using the account, I didn't even know that there was such thing.
Society is rotting and it's taking the net with it.
Why do you think the shootings happened in Florida. Because leftists like you have taken God out of your lives.
And yet, when that asshole shot up a church in Texas, God did nothing to stop him. That must really confuse you and make you angry at God. Do you own a gun?
You're going for irony there, aren't you?
I've also worked at places in the past where I sincerely wish this sort of thing had been applied.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Unfortunately, assholes need "asshole" defined for them, because they don't seem to understand what the word means. Otherwise they wouldn't be assholes.
I'm just curious what prompted this change. I RTFA but doesn't state the reason this has only recently been put in place after years of not existing. Does anyone know?
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Codes of conduct are like other rules or laws that govern interpersonal behavior:
There mere existence is a sign of past failure - usually a failure in communications but not always.
I'm too ignorant to speak about FreeBSD, but I can see situations where "all else has failed" and I would actually be spearheading the effort to impose such rules as the "last, best" alternative to an organization dissolving or becoming irrelevant. On the other hand - again, I'm not speaking about FreeBSD - "blowing it up and starting over" may be better than trying to "rescue" an organization by imposing new internal rules of behavior.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
That's really the worst part. What it means is "since white males are not considered systemically oppressed, the harassment rule doesn't apply to them and you can harass them as much as you want".
You just don't realize that we are laughing at people like you. You, Trump and Damore need to go into the dustbin.
If /. adopted the BSD code of conduct, your comment would be in violation at a minimum of "Unwelcome comments regarding a person's lifestyle choices and practices".
Whataboutism is a propaganda technique first used by the Soviet Union, in its dealings with the Western world.[1] When Cold War criticisms were levelled at the Soviet Union, the response would be "What about..." followed by the naming of an event in the Western world.[2][3] It represents a case of tu quoque (appeal to hypocrisy),[4] a logical fallacy that attempts to discredit the opponent's position by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with that position, without directly refuting or disproving the opponent's initial argument.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
https://www.quora.com/How-do-y...
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
...which one of the things it bans do you think should be allowed?
Reading through it, it seems pretty reasonable. If I were leading a team, I would not want someone on that team who would treat other team members in any of the ways this policy bans. Seems like it could be summed up as "Don't be a creep or an asshole."
You just don't realize that we are laughing at people like you. You, Trump and Damore need to go into the dustbin.
If /. adopted the BSD code of conduct, your comment would be in violation at a minimum of "Unwelcome comments regarding a person's lifestyle choices and practices".
Wouldn't that be a violation of HIS lifestyle choice?
You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
There were enough excellent one liners why it wasn't acceptable. If you can't understand that I pity you but will not spend any effort to help you understand it - from experience people like that will never change (with a few exceptions).
So why not ban from its "spaces" everything that isn't specifically about FreeBSD and all the technical stuff that goes with it? If you want to know what is "inappropriate" in a discussion about FreeBSD, it would be anything that isn't about FreeBSD. Is that so difficult.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
Any large community has a few people who don't understand boundaries and expected behavior unless they are explicitly defined in writing. You might call them autistic, maybe they're not that and are just assholes, who knows. You'll find some kind of rules in every large club or organization that has been around long enough.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Amazingly, those are the only ones that seem to actually do any work.
But maybe that's just because the loudmouth mob of straight white male-hating non-straight white males are giving everybody else such a bad name.
Anyway, that sort of bs would be enough for me to bugger off to greener pa$ture$. No need to wait for the constructive dismissal you just know is coming your way. Do your part in bringing down idiocy and brush up the old CV. And yeah, even google can be brought down that way. They have already lost their ability to innovate.
Funny how you can't remember any of those one liners.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Please don't use language which is exclusionary and oppressivee to deceased Americans.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
"FreeBSD falling behind in 2018. Supporters are leaving. Is it because racists are threatened?"
Nothing gets you a bunch of free volunteer labor like a big ol' legal form that lists all the ways you could punish them!
Not only that, but keep in mind what can count as private aspects of a person's identity.
What happens if you ask some guy you know well how his boyfriend's doing, and it turns out he isn't officially out of the closet? Or ask someone you know is in another country if they can do a lookup on a website for you to see if it works from that country?
'Private aspects' can be oh, so many things. Many years ago I was a regular in a chatroom with a bunch of other guys. One of these was absolutely sure no one he hadn't deliberately confided in could find out who he was.
That is, until I pointed out to him that he'd mentioned he worked at a university, he'd mentioned stopping at a specific point on his bike ride to work, he'd mentioned the number of a specific kind of shop at the intersection his apartment sat above, and he once dropped a comment to someone about needing to travel about forty kilometers to cross the border to use a specific currency they were talking about.
He had no idea before then how much private information he was leaking all on his own.
These rules? They're forbidding saying "Hey John, you're in Austria now, right?"
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
Oh crap...
Define "asshole".
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
Stalin would have lined scumbags like you up against the nearest wall.
Keep that in mind as you pray for the establishment of neo-stalinism in America.
Damore won, period. He spoke sensibly and plainly, was subsequently and publicly vindicated in the very action of his firing, and now is a martyr for the anti-PC cause and will never have trouble making an income again. He can hit the conference circuit, join a think tank, become a visiting professor at conservative and libertarian colleges, etc. and get paid large honorarium. He's set.
This is effectively a tortious interference of contract. If I were on the BSD team, I would be subject to monitoring of my personal stuff outside of the scope of their project, which means I could not speak freely on sites which guarantee me the ability to speak freely.
Fuck no. The BSD team needs to have their asses sued, beaten, and bloodied until they understand that you don't fucking tell people how to live their lives outside of 'work.'
And you can GUARANTEE that the FREEBSD team is too fucking cowardly to come right here and defend their obviously illegal bullshit.
I propose that all stories about FreeBSD be banned from Slashdot. Let's police their ass right the fuck back.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
It's the Fermat's Margin Note strategy for winning - or at least not losing - slashdot arguments.
Ha, very well put! That summarizes all the arguments in that last JDvGoog post in one sentence.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
To be fair, they're praying for the establishment of neo-Leninism in America, and just haven't read history.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Sure, this code of conduct is a bit ham-handed and written from a radical perspective that is at odds with the relatively conservative past of the project, but if we ignore the language of the conduct and focus instead on its meaning, it basically boils down to not being a dick. I think most people are likely upset because the language screams SJW, but this does not make the code wrong.
This is a sign of the times. The newer generation coming into these projects was raised with these values. Us "old timers" -- and by that I mean us who are over thirty -- were part of a different generation of OSS and Internet culture. This new culture may seem alien to us, but it's not that bad. Focus on building things and maybe try to be a bit more sensitive when critiquing others, and you'll be just fine.
I don't think this is the death knell for FreeBSD. Inclusiveness is a good thing. I'm glad they are trying to engage millennials. If enforcing a Code of Conduct that, despite the virtue signaling language, really boils down to "don't be a dick to people" ensures that this project can attract young people, then I'm glad to see it ratified.
Change can be good, but we have to be open minded to that change.
Do you think insistently referring to Muhammad Ali as "Cassius Clay" is appropriate, apart from discussion of the late boxer's childhood?
You realize that guy is dead right... perhaps God doesn't preempt our decisions but allows us the free will to make good and bad choices and lays down the judgement afterwards.
Actually that is exactly how the law in the USA is supposed to work... you are free to do basically whatever as long as you don't harm someone else or do something likely to harm or interfere with someone else's freedom.
Don't be an asshole. If you are behaving as an asshole you are given one chance of behaving like a mature adult, if you don't you can leave.
That's basically it.
Unfortunately this doesn't work. The reason being is that there are too many people who will debate precisely what is and is not assholey behaviour. See for example people on the thread making a fuss about being expected to use someone's name.
Having a non exclusive list of things considered arseholish cuts down on a lot of pointeless debate, whining and attempted rules lawyering.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Does that count as unwanted sexual behavior? Yes? Ok, then go fuck yourselves.
... implies acceptance of blurting, including blurting out many kinds of "abuse" they wish to disallow. A better code of conduct would be much simpler: "don't be an asshole, learn to apologize, and grow a thicker skin".
1) Summary indicates there are people who are annoyed. No actual links to annoyance.
2) Summary indicates it's quoting a blog post. No blog post linked, just the rules page.
3) The rules page has been around since 2015: https://archive.fo/https://www... - not that "new code of conduct" means that the writer intended to convey it was brand new, but certainly it will be interpreted that way by a lot of folks.
4) FreeBSD had some sort of discussion around it when it came to be in 2015: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.... and it looks like there was some actual internal stuff for project participants that occurred but again, nothing really happened
5) This type of code of conduct isn't really crazy in the OSS world by a simple search. For example, https://www.contributor-covena... shows a plethora of OSS projects that participate and is based on similar principles. Big names OSS participants include Eclipse, Spring, Atom,
6) Microsoft has code of conduct that touches on similar issues: https://opensource.microsoft.c...
7) Github has a guide actively encouraging codes of conduct within communities: https://opensource.guide/code-... and pointing to other OSS projects that have them: https://www.djangoproject.com/...
If you look at FreeBSD's code of conduct in context it really seems like they're late to the party, which may just be a formality (the community norms might already be enforcing these types of rules anyway) or a dramatic change, but there's no way to actually get that from the summary at all.
This whole topic is just... it's a fucking mess.
I'd hug you all via text, but it'd be a hate crime.
I've been on FreeBSD for years specifically because I trusted them to go full-autism and just ignore the political nonsense. Now it's here too...Are there any non-politically-correct and secure operating systems left?
I can see it already. The next place this will be popping up is in Terms Of Service. If you use our products, you agree to abide by our code of social conduct, including but not limited to: not offending any group we deem worthy of protection, questioning climate change theory, or voting Republican.
perhaps God doesn't preempt our decisions but allows us the free will to make good and bad choices and lays down the judgement afterwards.
Whenever something bad happens to me, someone always says "God has a plan" or "God works in mysterious ways". The flip side to that, of course, is that it means the people or person who caused that bad thing to happen to me, was simply following God's plan. Which then the question must be asked, if their bad actions towards me were God's plan, do they really have free will? Do I? Does anyone?
You see the same problem with prayer. If you pray for a sick loved one to get better, and they do, yay prayer works! But if they don't get better, well, God works in mysterious ways and has a plan for all of us. But if that is the case, then whenever prayer appears to work, you were simply praying for something that God was already planning on doing.
At least we can now truthfully say BSD is dying. With this hypocritical white knight bullshit in place, nobody is going to want to stick around.
This is the continuation of this effort. They've destroyed the atheist movement, largely destroyed many 'level-headed' green, anti-capitalist and other liberal movements, all feminist and most if not all sex-positive communities, working hard on the movie and comic book communities and now we see inroads in tech, FreeBSD communities will soon be a wasteland of self-righteous bullshit.
We're creating a generation of fascists with these kind of actions. Mark my words, when you can't see that hating white men is the same as hating male Jews, or female blacks, you are creating a power vacuum for people like Hitler on either side of the spectrum.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Wouldn't that be a violation of HIS lifestyle choice?
Nobody ever said social justice makes any sense. Using the word justice alone implies that a specific named party has been harmed by another specific named party and the later needs some kind of penalty inflicted upon them, which is stupid because nobody can actually name the later party. I don't know about you, I haven't met one social justice advocate who is good at anything other than protesting, and isn't always negative about every single thing on the planet.
I think GPs goal was to trigger somebody. It looks like he succeeded.
Like sending an hug emoji?
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
Which is reasonable, as it is an actual code of conduct.
"Forget the engineers." -Carly Fiorina, briber of MIT Technology Review.
FreeBSD deleted the fortune program, I then knew that the system was really in decline at that point and has become self obsessed and moribund. Its like any other institution that becomes infected with the disease known as Liberalism, rather than being bold and innovative, creating new things, all it does is loath, become overly self critical loading itself down with endless rules and regulations, attacking and penalizing the more productive elements of society, while producing nothing of real value. It is an example of O Sullivans law.
I can't see what's wrong with whataboutism if it's used correctly (observing proper context â" for example, you cannot compare a rule with an exception). OK, by itself it doesn't directly refute or disprove the opponent's initial argument. So what. It's a tool to show that the opponent is not in a position to criticize for certain behavior, especially when the issue at hand is highly contested.
With those totalitarian rules there is no sense in carrying the word "Free" in the name anymore.
Shhh, don't say things like that. Their small brains might over-heat and explode. And who will then clean up the mess?
I can only assume this is something she's responsible for? She's done a great job fucking up Twitter with that block list of hers, very very arbitrary rules to get on it. Once you're in, the damn thing propagates to others, assuming the contents of the list is gospel.
I've never ever tweeted at her, nor used any bad hash tags, yet here I am on, on that list and now spread to others.
BSD is so screwed Bowing down to these types.
The only ones who won't want to stick around are the ones nobody wanted around in the first place.
Have a look at Jordan Peterson, who is calling out exactly what you have described.
The problem with SJWs, is they are wreckers. Like the radical union movement; they don't care if they put your company out of business, as the ideology is more important.
Similarly, if SJWs kill BSD, they will congratulate themselves having ridden the world of such a toxic community that didn't deserve to exist.
46137
That would have to be a Scheme user, and NOT is a unary funtion anyway in both Lisp and Scheme.
Ezekiel 23:20
In the US, a certain set of rights are delineated by The Constitution, that is not a limit, just a baseline. But the minute rights become subjective objects of adulation there is no end... You wind up with people suing because their emotional support peacock was not allowed on a flight. You have a "right" to your support system? We have a right not to see. smell, and hear you nasty giant bird. Our right is a tangible thing(i.e. stinky bird and the absence thereof), your right is between your ears... you feel better.
Any time you get into a "feelings hurt/offended" situation it's going to end up being turtles all the way down. What makes you feel good makes someone else sad or offends them... it's an infinite loop of imagined wrongs and slights.
There is real social injustice. It is easy to spot. When you see something happening, thing about what your response would be if you were on the receiving end... if you get mad at the thought of it happening to you, it very well could be social injustice...
or you might just need an emotional support peacock.
You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
FreeBSD is now the Rust of operating systems, without the memory protection...
If /. adopted the BSD code of conduct, your comment would be in violation at a minimum of "Unwelcome comments regarding a person's lifestyle choices and practices".
Only if you are male.
This is probably not going to work out like some folks think.
Total avoidance is a fine and effective way to comply 100 percent with the dictated behavior. No other communication except for a minimum to do the job.
I worked years ago in such a system. Those people who were the target did a simple risk/reward analysis, and did just that. It's inevitable. You find yourself second and third guessing every statement or posting for possible offensive statement , and you end up deciding it isn't worth it. It will happen again.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Bringing politics into software is foolish and only introduces a new dimension to make source code incompatible.
Old problem: We can't combine this BSD code, Acode, with this mixed MIT/GPL code, Bcode, because of the incompatible distribution/duplication license.
New problem:
We can't combine Gcode with Hcode because Gcode is under the LGBTTIQQ2SFatSkinnyDruggieMentalReligious social license, and Hcode is under the HugsAreOkProHealthlyRegularPeople social license.
I have a much shorter code of conduct:
Don't be an asshole. If you are behaving as an asshole you are given one chance of behaving like a mature adult, if you don't you can leave.
Who determines what being an asshole is?
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
The whole point of this article is Leftist authoritarianism putting itself in places it doesn't belong - and then the comment I replied to just trashes Rightists for being high in conscientiousness. It's textbook whataboutism. It's a dehumanizing tactic that needs to be called out whenever it appears.
Once identified as right-wing you are beyond the pale of argument; your views are irrelevant, your character discredited, your presence in the world a mistake. You are not an opponent to be argued with, but a disease to be shunned.
Jonathan Haidt's expiriments ask liberals and conservatives to fill out questionnaires about their values, then to predict how someone from the opposite tribe would fill out the questionnaire. He finds that conservatives are able to predict liberals' answers just fine and seem to have a pretty good understanding of their worldviews, but that liberals have *no idea* how conservatives think or what they value. http://www.aei.org/publication/liberals-or-conservatives-whos-really-close-minded/
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
I certainly do observe patterns that you're describing here, but I don't think that all of it constitutes whataboutism or that whataboutism per se is dehumanizing. It could perhaps be used for such purpose, but that's about it. When I say that someone is not in a position to blame me for X because they indulge in X themselves in a comparable context, I'm not saying that they're not human.
Spoken like a true authoritarian communist.
You forget the cardinal rule of such CoCs: "It's OK when we do it to you".
There is no god.
The justice and injustice is delivered by humans and life/universe/time itself.
USA isn't peaceful.
Anyway any ideology you're not allowed to question have the same problem. Doesn't matter if it's communism or Islam. One has a good the other doesn't but so what? I don't see why that give ideas any special and different value than others.
The question is what those ideas are and whatever you're allowed to question them and reason against them or not. The god part is just an excuse against that.
Someone else like in all case.
They of course won't do shit.
It does not mean anything anyways, it is just sort of a "prayer" you have to give to be in, no actual belief necessary. But it is tedious and a waste of time. So can we maybe just have some script that gets configured for the various SJW cesspools and adds all this crap they insist on automatically?
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
wow, THINK about, not THING about.
You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
What's it like to defend acting like an asshole? Why would you do that? How is "Hey, don't act all rapey" hypocritical or "white knight bullshit"? More importantly, what's wrong with you as a human being that this would cause such a reaction in you?
It's really quite creepy how many people this is triggering. As if acting like a decent human being is a bad thing? As if asking developers to not be creepy assholes is "virtue signaling"?
Guess what guys, welcome to the real world. People expect a little bit of professionalism.
And no, none of this is "virtue signaling". I don't need to signal my virtue to a bunch of strangers on the damn internet who don't affect my life in the slightest little bit. Further, NOT acting rapey isn't a virtue, it's the basic level of common decency and professionalism that should be expected without having to spell it out.
If this is bothering you, frankly, you're a bad human being.
This is the end of FreeBSD. It has been taken over anal people. The whole point of BSD was the chill people that just wanted to write good code. Not obsess about anal rules of conduct.
The code-of-conduct should just state "dont be a dick". That is all! That is true BSD philosophy. Keep it simple, stupid! Shut up and hack! FFS! SystemD for linux. now SJW for the BSD. Fuck!
FOSS is going downhill.
FreeBSD developer here. Based on the feedback on a private developers list, I can assure you that this updated CoC is not something being unanimously accepted by the community. It was developed "behind the scenes" and in my opinion it was pushed on us by Benno Rice. I have no problem working with and respecting all developers regardless of race, gender, gender identity, political affiliation, or sexual orientation. I judge people based on their actions as developers. This CoC, even if the intentions were well-meaning, comes across as sanctimonious, amateurish, and out of touch. Core elections are coming up this year. I am hopeful that it can be improved after Rice has been voted out.
The black transgendered lesbian with the most disabilities, of course. Don't you know anything? We no longer need discussions, we just ask the most marginalized person in the room, as their opinion is now law
Yes, 'illegal immigrant' is simply accurate. I can see how just 'illegal' comes off as denying their right to exist, but the law is just not letting them exist here.
'Undocumented' isn't inaccurate per se but does cast them in a favorable light, similar for offering Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
Is that we don't have all of this social rules. "Dont be a dick" is a good rule. Its going to drive out all of the aspies and other people that are good coders. I dont understand how FreeBSD could be taken over by snowflakes ? FFS. This is a sad day. Its toxic. I can not support this community anymore. The code for our CORE infrastructure is now run by SNOWFLAKES! How can you make good code around people you have to walk on eggshells with? Code for our mission critical infrastructure which peoples lives _literally_ depends on are run by people that worry about "Deliberate misgendering." , and virtual hugs... And Im not joking. This is true. For fuck sake. What has happened.
At least I can take great joy in the glorious SpaceX dual rocket landing to feel that the world has not gone completely bonkers.
If people feel the need to be legislating things like not being an asshole, the project is doomed. Diversity stroke. When diversity and sjw culture sets it, all is lost.
Neurodiversity means various mental conditions, including autism (but not limited to it like the AC who replied to steelwraith said). The SJWs who came up with TFA don't consider transgenderism a mental illness, but I see where you got that from. Even if it is, it can't be cured, so maybe going along with them to some extent is a good treatment
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
If I've no choice but to pick a dystopia, I'll take the communists over the Nazis.
I'm reminded of the word "née", usually used for a married woman's maiden name, but also uses for other previous names, whether or not the name change was transgender-related.
Catelyn Stark née Tully, Bob Dylan née Robert Zimmerman, Chelsea Manning née Bradley Manning all seem like accurate uses of the word.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
The Nazis didn't exterminate the filth; they were the filth. Just like they are today.
And just like everything it's the people that speak out and perform and lead the community that really matter no matter if you believe it or not. Those you are seeking to passify may be dysfunctional but they are the doers. I am not against a community code of conduct but it has to work socially. Coding and working on tools does not and should not require everyone to have the same morals or creed. I may not personally like an ex Nazi filmmaker but I can respect his artistic contributions for themselves which have nothing to do with a past political creed. I may criticize but I leave judgement to God.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The black transgendered lesbian with the most disabilities, of course. Don't you know anything? We no longer need discussions, we just ask the most marginalized person in the room, as their opinion is now law
Ah - the victim version of the argument from personal incredulity.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
What's it like to defend witch hunting? Why would you do that?
Are you seriously going to be keeping tabs on what people have and haven't said in public for things that don't seem like they matter, eg. job or country of residence?
What if John FORGOT that he once posted in public that he's an accountant in Austria? Can you find the thread in which he stated it when shit hits the fan?
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
why do you assume the repeated attacks are not also a reaction?
there's a reason people started berating straight white males. they've been the ones deciding things and benefiting for centuries already. now people aren't kissing white ass anymore and you're all butthurt. white people are not fucking victims because minorities finally decided to stand up for themselves. gay people got tired of having to hide their sexuality. black people got tired of being called n*ggers and treated as property. hispanic people got tired of being told that they're all fucking criminals. women got tired of men telling them what they cant do with their bodies. minorities are tired of white people's bullshit.
white people got tired of...? what, exactly? being told that they shouldn't be fucking assholes? for not even a decade? poor you.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
No, the fact that the list is needed in the first place is a huge red flag regarding the management of the project. If you have one asshole, you use your "captain's prerogative" and kick the asshole off the boat. If you have several assholes and you won't kick them all off, the problem is with you, not with the fact that assholes exist.
If a single person decided to enforce this code of conduct by divine decree without encoding the standard for others to read you would be entirely okay with that? Let's say this person decides to kick you out because they think you're an asshole. Would you just accept that silently or demand to know the standard by which you were judged an asshole
Codes of Conduct are two things: a way for people who don't have the ability to manage to dismiss problems rather than making decisions and facing those problems,
The "kick them off if they're an asshole" standard is no more resilient to this.
and a way for the assholes to put hard "rules" in place with vague wording that sounds good on first reading but are wide open to abuse.
Again, the "kick them off if they're an asshole" standard doesn't do anything to avoid this negative consequence. You seem to be complaining about the fact that others are allowed to decide whether you're being disrespectful or derogatory even if you don't believe you were. This is the exact same way the word asshole is applied. We decide whether you're an asshole with no need to consider your intent.
You end up with colossal arguments over something as simple as not typing singular "they" instead of "he" or "she" eating a bunch of community member and moderator time, accomplishing nothing, and causing people who think arguing over such silly things is silly to be penalized or booted for doing so.
That argument didn't involve a code of conduct and was unproductive due to trolling and bad moderator tools. It doesn't really pertain to this because there was no way for anybody to decide the standard.
"[We'll be] really getting inside your head and making it an unpleasant place to be" -- Trent Reznor
Codifying intolerance in the name of tolerance is an oxymoron.
The price of freedom is tolerance of others. This doesn't stop at "free speech" = not going to jail. Freedom is about all members of society realizing they DO NOT have the right to NOT be offended. Freedom means tolerating those you hate, those whose views are 180 of yours. It means tolerating belligerence who stir the pot and piss you off. Freedom requires grown adults to grow up not be coddled like children.
I have no patience to read all the comments, I have read about 1/4 of them. But:
1) I feel quite sad that the formalized rules are to be applied where it was enough for Ladies and Gentlemen to behave as in a good society.
2) I think it's necessary to be ready to the moment when the FreeBSD project is just closed due to the political correctness. Since FreeBSD is my main OS I think that the mirroring the FreeBSD project for emergency purposes becomes a necessity.
Full Disclosure: I live in Russia, and I have graduated from the University which before 1917 was a School for Noble Girls.
...Ummm... Hate to break this to you, but, Nazis were socialists....
This is a very common myth, and now is as good a time as any to debunk it. They called themselves "national socialists" to attract people (and distinguish themselves from "international socialists"), but all of the actual socialists were purged in the night of the long knives.
Nazis were neither right-wing nor left-wing in either the French Revolution sense or in the modern sense.
Cowpox is to smallpox as Christianity is to {Islam, Communism, White Nationalism, other noxious belief systems which are incompatible with Christianity}. Ie it doesn't do much harm on its own and immunizes you against something much nastier.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Because it is an OS, not a dating site dumbfuck.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
No, God does not such thing, because imaginary friends don't have free will. Do you know how many lives you ignorant fuckers have ruined with your bullshit fairy tails?
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
*tales
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
I'm curious why you say that. The Stalinist aspects of fake-progressive SJW ideology and behavior are obvious: imposition of Kafkaesque bureaucratic tyranny; establishment of a nomenklaturist para-elite; fake statistics used to justify disastrous policies; databasing and doxxing their enemies; frequent witch hunt style purges; apologetics for and expansion of the police state; widespread use of shibboleths and purity tests; etc, etc, etc.
However I see nothing particularly Leninist about the SJW faction. They're openly and proudly anti-working-class. They usually favor "social market" capitalism where the inherited rich retain control of society while the plebs are pacified with more extensive bread & circuses. Their idea of "revolution" is using the coercive power of the state-corporate hegemon to force people to use 50 different gender pronouns. Workers seizing control of the state and expropriating the property of capitalists? Not so much.
Fwiw this book may provide some insight into what Lenin would think of our SJW "leftists":
https://archive.org/details/Le...
There is no asshole dimension in any version of EPR (Earned Public Reputation) that I can imagine. I can think of several dimensions where asshole-like behavior would be manifested. Most obvious is negative politeness. Probably negative on a "supportive" or "agreeable" dimension, too. Perhaps positive for "clarity" and "provocative" dimensions?
Of course the deeper problem that is only touched by the OP is that we'll never get agreement about what it means. However, I think that's fine within a well considered set of dimensions. You can set your filtering one way to block (AKA render invisible) the people who offend you too much, and I'd probably set mine differently.
One level deeper is how to provide the constructive feedback to the people whose rudeness has rendered them invisible. Something like a reminder along the lines of "Your current EPR is so negative that fewer than 10% of the readers of Slashdot will even see your comment. Perhaps you can tone down the rudeness a bit, since that's the largest contribution to your EPR?"
One more thing. I think the data should age over time. If you've become a nicer person, then it should start showing.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
Whilst I have the greatest sympathy of any sufferer of mental illness, I can;t help but think "go along with them" is causing more harm than good, if you are pandering to their illness.
I understand there are many people who transitioned and then regretted it, and any more who committed suicide afterwards - suggesting that the problem isn't with the transgenderism as they desire, but that is a symptom of underlying causes or dissatisfaction. Thus, the modern meme that you can be whatever you want to be is harming these people.
The SJWs don't consider anything other than what will piss off their political enemies, regardless of the consequences.
I think PHK is unlikely.
(Sorry, PHK, I actually think you are amazing)
I've been using BSD for servers for 20 years, and as much as I support the kind of things they are talking about here, I don't support making it a hard and fast policy, nor do I agree with mixing social issues with technical and commercial products and services.
I will be migrating all of my servers, probably to one or another flavor of Linux.
Not The Onion? Because parts of it read like a parody of master-class idiocy.
There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
Simple. Two pairs for OOC and one pair for just an aside.
No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.
Everyone who doesn't agree with you is a communist, huh? That certainly sounds like something a Nazi would say. If you hate the term that much, I'll be sure to use it more often.
That would be why I said "if I had to pick a dystopia", yes. Frankly I'd prefer to fight both. Better dead than red and all that.
But if dead is not an option, then better red than Nazi. The communists were valuable allies the last time the Nazis had to be put in their place. They're a better bunch to live with than you'll ever be.
I don't equate everybody who verbally offends me with Nazis, no. People who support the genocide and/or subjugation of other peoples, that's another matter. Likewise for those who support "separatism", which I've found to be little more than genocide and subjugation muttered under one's breath. Likewise for people who knowingly and willingly make themselves part of the machine by which they mask their presence and abuse their countrymen and their rights. The Nazis use you, and you give them your informed consent, and all I'm doing is respecting their claim on you.
Am I doing what I claim to be against? No. I don't support killing, enslaving, or separating from others based on ethnicity, beliefs, opinions: essentially, anything people are. But things people do, like commiting such abominations, plotting to do it, or aiding those who do these things)? Against those, I claim right of self-defense.
And me? An SJW? Don't make me laugh. I see very little "justice" in their agenda at all. Elsewhere in the thread I mentioned that if I were forced to pick a dystopia, I'd pick the communists over the Nazis, but I'd pick the SJWs over either one. Doesn't make them any less dystopian, and I'd rather fight all three, but the SJWs are still better people to be around than your sort.
Awright, bait taken:
1. "Asking people to be civil to each other" is absolutely my point. I object to the disorganized list vomit of all things a person can do wrong; in its place (as others have noted) we ought to say something positive or give a directive, such as "Don't be a jerk."
2. Precious snowflake or thick skinned; make up your mind. I can't do both for you.
I think not...(*poof*)
Yep. Somebody has lost the meaning of the word "Free"
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Ah, as one of the bitter untouchables tries to brand me a troll. Sorry, Elliot; no one wants you around, because you're a disgusting creep, and now they're formulating the necessary rules to kick you to the curb like they should have done at the start.
Don't like it? I don't blame you for that. But there's a fix: you can grow the hell up and start acting like a person. You just don't want to, and that, I do blame you for.
What an ignorant standpoint.
If I think you're a fuckstick, I'm infringing on your freedom by telling you to get the fuck out of my house?
No, I'm not. You're free to fuck off elsewhere. When FreeBSD does something beyond exercising their own right of agency, then we can talk about your infringed freedom, snowflake.
Stalin slaughtered plenty more people than Hitler by the time 1945 ended. And they weren't "valuable allies". They were all too happy so mass murder members of local undergrounds (who also fought against Nazis) to ensure that after the war puppet governments installed by USSR will be uncontested, they constantly blackmailed western countries to act against their own interest by threatening to pull out of the war (as soon as they pushed Germans away from their borders), and in 1944 Stalin already had plans to attack the West.
So no, they weren't "valuable allies". We just happened to have a common enemy. But Nazis, commies, it's just different paint job, no difference under the hood.
What is best in life? Hot water, good dentishtry and shoft lavatory paper.
why do you assume the repeated attacks are not also a reaction?
there's a reason people started berating straight white males. they've been the ones deciding things and benefiting for centuries already. now people aren't kissing white ass anymore and you're all butthurt. white people are not fucking victims because minorities finally decided to stand up for themselves. gay people got tired of having to hide their sexuality. black people got tired of being called n*ggers and treated as property. hispanic people got tired of being told that they're all fucking criminals. women got tired of men telling them what they cant do with their bodies. minorities are tired of white people's bullshit.
white people got tired of...? what, exactly? being told that they shouldn't be fucking assholes? for not even a decade? poor you.
That's the SJW version of the elders of Zion. Throughout recent history a few white men have had power. Yes many if not almost all the power people of western Europe and the US have been white men. Shocking considering that's where most of the white people in the world live. At the same time, there were 100000x more white men living in poverty and under the boot of others in those same places. And you are painting both groups (actually the descendants of both groups) with the same brush.
And specifically in this case, the white men you are targeting have very little power. You seem to have no sense of self-awareness as that rant is way too similar to the tactics of anti-Semites throughout history. Its actually quite terrifying that people like you don't seem to recognize the parallels.
"Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
None of what you mentioned is socialism.
Socialism is social ownership and democratic control of the means of production: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
It is not "whatever I don't like", as you seem to think.
Eat the rich.
Stalin was a murderous tyrannical despot. Where was the social ownership and democratic control of the means of production?
He cloaked his regime in the rhetoric of socialism, but he didn't actually implement it.
Eat the rich.
Who's praying for neo-Stalinism?
Eat the rich.
None of what you mention is Socialism or Nazism or Communism *if you ask them for their definition of themselves*.
You don't get it. No one is asking socialists or communists or nazis tro define themselves. No one cares what crawls out of their mouths. No one has to respect a single they say, and no one does except of course for their apologists.
Socialism communism and nazisim are what they do. They are what they have actually done.
So your attempt to refute my points with a self-generated definition which you then expect me to honor is the height of narcissicism.
No one is playing your games. Instead, we're funding the military.
I am going by the textbook definitions of socialism, communism, fascism and nazism, not the weirdo alt-right definitions you've made up yourself.
Eat the rich.
Yes, you've rattled off a list of tyrannical despots, well done.
Meanwhile, socialism is a big part of what makes northern European countries some of the best places in the world to live, by all relevant metrics.
Eat the rich.
Coding and working on tools does not and should not require everyone to have the same morals or creed.
No, of course not. But it is perfectly fine to ask people to be civil and professional in their communication.
Eat the rich.
No you don't and no you didn't.
Eat the rich.
And this sort of response is exactly the problem. I'm a fucking minority asshole. I worked my way up, I'm still a minority. I am relatively well-off, I'm still a minority. I get to have a modicum of political power in my community but I'm still a minority. I don't aspire to be governor or senator or anything, but I could if I wanted to, I would still be a minority.
White people (which I assume you mean American citizen blue collar white people), in my opinion, get tired of being held back in order to fill a quota, seeing their jobs evaporate to both Mexico proper and illegals from Mexico and being laughed at when they complain when their communities get wrecked by violence and drugs even though the relative numbers are much more affecting white blue collars right now than it is protected classes because of the quotas. They get tired of continuing to fund education to get smart boards and iPads for every student in the inner city when their own schools can't even stay open. They are tired of continuing to get blamed for black-on-black violence. THAT'S the current American reality.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Why don't you grow up and stop whining and crying about what other people think and say.
I'm not whining about what other people think and say. I am "whining" about attempted genocide. You are not fooling anybody.
You want a monoculture world where everyone's values and opinions line up perfectly with your own.
The opposite, actually. But a decebt and diverse world cannot function while there are people still attempting to commit genocide: these, therefore, must be stamped out.
Sorry to break this to you, but the world isn't like that. There are many outlooks and you are an uncultured, untraveled and unlearned piece of shit for trying to stifle that.
Amazing. Every assumption you just stated about me was completely incorrect. In fact, the only correct assumption you made about me in your entire post was that I am in fact male, and I suspect you just got lucky on that one.
This, I suspect; is why you can't get a date. Girls can smell the creepy on you, and they do everything they can to get away without setting off your tantrums. What's a manchild like you doing telling anyone to grow up?
I've been calling the Communists a dystopia ever since this thread began. What more do you want?
You're still worse. The only reason you didn't kill more people than Stalin is that you ran out of time when your dear leader killed himself. Stalin and the Soviets did a lot of terrible shiat putting you down, yes. This was not saints versus sinners; it was sinners versus demons. But the demons still lost, and the Soviets were a large part of why, and that makes their contribution valuable. Credit where it's due.
I don't equate everybody who verbally offends me with Nazis, no.
Except you just did.
I did literally the opposite.
The Nazis use you, and you give them your informed consent, and all I'm doing is respecting their claim on you.
No they don't.
You claim to know that little about the people you're defending? I don't buy that for a second. You've known ever since you signed up for the Daily Stormer.
I could just as easily say that the terrorists use you and you give them your informed consent by being a cowardly fearmonger and it would have the same credibility.
Ah, so you assume I don't support the global war on terror, do you? So sorry to disappoint, but you're wrong: after you're gone, Daesh is next. It's just a matter of priorities; you go after the biggest threats first. Any doctor could tell you the importance of triage.
Doesn't make them any less dystopian, and I'd rather fight all three, but the SJWs are still better people to be around than your sort.
And what is my sort? Honest, terse and direct?
Quite the opposite: your sort lie like rugs about your intentions while burying your vileness in far more words than you need to. There is nothing direct about it. You may as well just spout a couple slogans and acronyms: there would be no difference in substance.
That's better than being the delicate and dishonest sugar faerie that you and your SJW brethren are.
So you also think I don't believe there's a crisis of irresiliency in people today, especially among the SJW crowd. Wrong again. It's almost funny; I go out of my way to explain how I don't equate anyone who disagrees with me with the Nazis, and here you go equating everyone who disagrees with you with being SJWs. The truth is, we're far more alike than different, you and I. The only difference, it seems, is that I'm a decent and functional human being.
Exercising your own right of agency, in a civilized society, means that you do not infringe on the right of agency of others.
The United States, thanks to the worship of a form of liberty designed to do maximum harm instead of maximum good, is no longer civilized by that standard at all.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
I want you to realize, that while slogans were different, nazim and communism were pretty much the same thing. In both cases you had one tyrant at the top, who ruled by his party, you had death camps, political purges and economy geared solely towards war. Different paint job, same engine. To use your metaphor, demons versus devils.
And what's with they "you"? I am a Slav, my ancestors fought against both regimes tooth and nail in the name of freedom and democracy, and I honor them for that. I can only hope, that when the push comes to shove I will have as much courage as they had to oppose any of them, should they ever come back.
What is best in life? Hot water, good dentishtry and shoft lavatory paper.
Agreed. And when FreeBSD prevents you from exercising your right of agency outside of their club, I will stand next to you and scream and yell.
Doubtful, at this point. If I were already a part of the community, perhaps, but as things stand, anyone who would be offended by what I'm saying is going to get kicked off the project well before I join. That leaves me little reason to say these things within the community anyway.
If you don't like this, there is a simple solution. Not an easy one -I understand that- but it works every time and nothing else does. All you have to do is grow up.
Have I insulted his neurodiversity?
And in the meantime, those of us hated by the left wing bigots and politically correct nazis will simply exercise our free agency to leave the clubhouse to the morons.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
I'm pretty sure we've made it completely clear that that is exactly what we would like you to do. ;)
You may continue to enjoy the fruits of our labors, though
Yeah. Whatever.
At some stage I guess you have to understand that accepting that there are two biological sexes and some confused individuals for whatever reason, that immigration of poorer people into a welfare society cost money and destroy the biological similarity of it's people and change society and break down cultural bonds, that identity is important, that that your opionion isn't that of all peopleÂs, that letting a politician or multiple of them decide what should be done with others money most likely doesn't lead to better usage of them than if people got to keep their own money to do whatever the fuck they wanted with them, that white male super-heroes and so on doesn't necessarily lead to nation-socialism and genocide.
It's not your way or nazism.
And yeah, I'd pick national-socialism since I'm white.
If anything I'd say you kinda make national-socialism acceptable because you say it's the only alternative to what you want. Which it isn't. But yeah.
You're not fighting "Nazis", you're fighting anyone who doesn't think exactly the same thing as you do.
You know, I think you'd be surprised at how many of your points we agree on. I count three and a half out of six (the half-point because, while I agree that unrestricted immigration is not such a good idea, I don't share your obsession with such irrelevant trivialities as the "biological similarity" between peoples). However, I manage this without calling for the genocide and subjugation of those different from myself, and I endorse other peoples' right to self-defense against those who do.
There are other differences between us, and, I'm sure, other similarities. But this is the one that makes all the difference. It is not "my way or Nazism" by any stretch of the imagination, but your way is Nazism. And that is why you must be stamped out.
What says it's an obcession?
I just state it's a thing. And just because you think people and their culture and ways and soverign rule and what not is worth preserving doesn't mean you have to kill anyone whatsoever. Maybe it's somewhat freedom restricting but I think the bad movement of people could had been sorted out by ditching the welfare state as-well.
As far as actual civil war, terrorism and genocide goes that's more of a thing which become relevant when you've already had your place invaded, the system can't keep you safe or limit your freedom. It sure as fuck wasn't necessary before it happened.
My way isn't nazism. My way was stopping the shit immigration early because all other options of dealing with the shit consequences are worse. But they didn't. A "peaceful" solution could still be to stop it and deport people but the longer they wait the more mixed up people will be and they will have a harder time doing it and then what?
I'm fine with an unsupporting free society which just let the poor starve away from society or commit crimes and be slaughtered for that when that happens too.
There definitely are solutions but since they wasn't even willing to make Sweden less attractive originally how likely are they to use any of the less attractive options?
Anyway it's their creation. They should take responsibility and undo it.
What says it's an obcession?
You do. You couldn't even get through a list of six points without mentioning it outright three times, and you masked it badly in several others.
I just state it's a thing.
And that is why you fail. It is not a thing, and it only takes a few minutes looking over the data to see that.
And just because you think people and their culture and ways and soverign rule and what not is worth preserving doesn't mean you have to kill anyone whatsoever.
Sure it does, the next time "your people" arbitrarily decide need some "living space". This has already happened whenever you or your ideological predecessors have ever taken power. And you've thrown your lot in with people who will do this again if given the chance. That makes you one of them.
Besides, why would anyone expect any people's "culture" and "ways", even their own, to last unchanging for all time? We all have so much to learn from each other, and we are at our best when we do so. As this happens, it isn't just natural for cultures to shift, and grow together, and eventually merge; it's frankly surprising thag anyone would expect otherwise. The culture you demand be locked into stasis is itself a result, in no small part, of many iterations of this exact process. It's how we work, it's what we do.
And this is not to say that immigration should be uncontrolled, nor that the controls should be recklessly loose. Every nation has, and legitimately needs, the right to say who can and cannot come in. But you have already stated that "biological similarity" factors into your goals for this control, and that pretty much invalidates your whole viewpoint. I am no liberal, to say that all viewpoints are equally valid: false paths exist, and yours is the most false.
We've got our own fruits, thank you much. We don't need yours.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Social democracy is not socialism. Thatâ(TM)s why the Scandinavian countries are not failed states. Itâ(TM)d be a very different picture if they were socialist countries.
-- Using the preview button since 2005
Hitler - 6 to 10 million deaths.
Communism = 100+ million in the 20th century. (perhaps as high as 200 million)
To be sure, Hitler and the Nazis were horrible horrible people. But... on the grand scale of murder, they were fucking amateurs.
You are an idiot of you choose Communism over Fascism. They both enslave you, but one is FANTASTIC at killing people. The Nazis killed you, but the Commies starved you and everyone in your village.. Nice and slow... Lots of suffering.
For fuck's sake, Pol Pot exterminated 40% of the population of his own country.
Seriously, your statement was so stupid it boggles the mind..
You are a liberal aren't you? I ask because the level of idiocy you just displayed.... I give up..
You get a Politburo and central planning for everything.
I'm so sick of the "We'll get Socialism right" assholes. Your experiment failed. Don't think so? Head down to Venezuela, asshole...
Meanwhile, socialism is a big part of what makes northern European countries some of the best places in the world to live, by all relevant metrics.
Lies! Those economies are teetering on the brink. And those that aren't are being propped up by those who are still producing and are working capitalistic systems.
I'm tired of the constant EVIL that is espoused as virtue. SOCIALISM IS EVIL. It's not "a good idea on paper". IT IS EVIL.
Those who meet after locking eyes over the water cooler are more likely to enjoy long lasting love, new research has revealed. Despite discouragement from companies and colleagues, office romances are more likely end in marriage than relationships that start in any other way - even meeting through friends. By contrast, relationships begun in a nightclub or pub almost always end in either a fling or a one-night stand.
This idea that we can't have any social / romantic interaction AT ALL at work or (to take your argument) anywhere else is BULLSHIT. The line should be harassment and no further. You ask a co-worker out, she says no.. No harm, no foul.. You ask again, problem.. Absolutely. But this idea that works needs to be pure monotony is stupid. And yes, the "It's an OS not a dating site" should have the same fucking line...
You are a liberal aren't you? I ask because the level of idiocy you just displayed.... I give up..
As I've said before, I don't think anyone to the left of Orrin Hatch could ever mistake me for a liberal.
The total body count for Communism is indeed quite high, but it fails to take into account the fact that they've had a lot longer to do it, and much greater resources at their disposal. The only reason the Nazis' count isn't higher is that they ran out of time: given a larger empire and several decades, there can be little doubt that they'd have done far worse.
Dammit; I'm trying to remember the name of the fallacy where disagreeing with A supposedly means that B is good. You and your so-called friends have been spewing it all over the place. I am not attempting to claim that Communism is remotely acceptable. I'm merely pointing outthat there are things even worse than Communism, and, well, you're it.
The total body count for Communism is indeed quite high, but it fails to take into account the fact that they've had a lot longer to do it, and much greater resources at their disposal. The only reason the Nazis' count isn't higher is that they ran out of time: given a larger empire and several decades, there can be little doubt that they'd have done far worse.
But there is doubt. We don't know what they would have done. We only know what they did do and what the Socialists did. When you compare the two, it's the socialists who racked up the higher body count. By far.... Like, it's not even close. Do I suspect the Nazis would have been just as bad? Yeah... But I can't present that as evidence because it's not. However, I can show you the atrocities of the socialists and I can present it as evidence, because it did happen. It's history, not speculation.
Dammit; I'm trying to remember the name of the fallacy where disagreeing with A supposedly means that B is good. You and your so-called friends have been spewing it all over the place. I am not attempting to claim that Communism is remotely acceptable. I'm merely pointing out that there are things even worse than Communism, and, well, you're it.
But there is no fallacy here. We don't have a situation where you picked A and I accused you of hating B, or vice versa. You presented the two options and then told us which you would have chosen. No outside influence was present. You said "Nazi vs Communism. I choose Communism".
I'm merely pointing out that there are things even worse than Communism, and, well, you're it.
And once again, you prove you are a fucking moron. You take my political stance or my debate against you and you say "What you say/think/feel/etc is worse than an institution that exterminated 100+ million people". Do you really not get how fucking retarded that is? I mean, seriously... What the hell? That level of logic is on par with you announcing you dislike Chocolate and I say "Oh my God, you're worse than a slave holder". Yeah, I'm serious. My views, opinions, thoughts, and maybe even stupidity (I don't claim to be omniscient or infallible) are not worse than a ideological, cultural, and political system that killed more people than live in Egypt (pop 96,000,000). If you don't understand that, then there is no hope for you (but it still DOES NOT make you WORSE than communism or fascism). It just makes you an idiot.