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Despite Outrage From Users, Microsoft Continues To Install Bloatware Applications Onto Every Windows 10 PC (windowscentral.com)
Before Windows 10, a clean install of Windows only included the bare essentials a user would need to get started using their PC. With Windows 10, a clean install stays that way for about two minutes, because the second you hit the desktop, the Microsoft Store immediately starts trying to download third-party apps and games. Users have long complained about it, but it turns out Microsoft never put paid to it. Windows Central writes: And these apps keep trying to install themselves even after you cancel the downloads. There are six such apps, which is six too many. These apps are often random, but right now they include things like Candy Crush, Spotify, and Disney Magic Kingdoms. You should not see any of these apps on a fresh install of Windows 10, yet they are there every single time. There are policies you can set that disable these apps from automatically installing, but that's not the point. On a fresh, untouched, clean install of Windows 10, these apps will download themselves onto your PC. Even if you cancel the installation of these apps before they manage to complete the download, they will retry at a later date, without you even noticing. The only way I've found that gets rid of them permanently is to let them install initially, without canceling the download, and then uninstall the apps from the Start menu. If you cancel the initial download of the bloatware apps before they complete their first install, the Microsoft Store will just attempt to redownload them later and will keep doing so until that initial install is complete. This is not a good user experience, Microsoft.
There's no real outrage - people still keep buying the accursed thing in massive numbers. If anyone was really outraged, they would get something else.
This is a frustrating aspect of win10: lack of control over what programs are installed on your machine. I don't primarily use win10, but for machines I have set up I think I solved the problem by disabling automatic updates in the Windows Store. Of course, this means updates are..disabled. Perhaps others have a better way to handle this?
In any case, disrespectful behavior by Microsoft.
They probably paid Microsoft more for access than you did for your operating system. Enjoy being captive to this new customer experience!
Probably not, but we are investing heavily in creating custom scripts to remove all of this crap which we'll have to re-run after every feature update.
"Enterprise" edition my ass.
The difference is that Microsoft actually installs some of these applications, like Candy Crush.
Because some of our clients have specialized equipment with interface software that only runs on Windows?
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
You didn't ask for them, they take up bandwidth (Though presumably the windows store won't download or update apps without asking if you're on a meterd connection - But good luck trying to tell windows you're metered before the first login lol), they take up storage space, they put their dumb icons right on your start menu..
You could call them bloatware, but they're not quite as bad as the old pre-load bloatware of the XP and Vista bad-old-days.
They're windows store apps, so they live in that safe little user mode jail. No crap left around in your system folders, half-registered DLLS or shell extensions dangling int the breeze filling event logs with errors every few seconds. They're not even as bad as phone bloat, which can make unwanted apps part of the system image and non-removable.
It is pretty dumb that they auto-download without asking. Microsoft has a lot of other problems to fix with their really bad store first. (Pretty much any non-trival large application is a nightmare to deal with because installs and updates can fail silently.)
Water still wet, fire still bad, small green creatures from Alpha Centauri still small green creatures from Alpha Centauri.
they also mess-up sysprep as well.
I have been using the PowerScript decrapifier by csand on new installs, and it is amazing.
A word of caution: Run the script while the computer is unplugged from the Internet. Otherwise, Store tries to install while the script tries to uninstall and may miss something.
I just finished setting up a nice i7 32gig ram nvidia 1050ti gaming rig under Linux Mint 19. Steam downloaded all the games and with the new Proton thing I'm getting Windows titles as well for some things. Keep on truck'n Microsoft... I'm not impacted by the downloads and if other people want your OS that's their problem.
Before Windows 10, a clean install of Windows only included the bare essentials a user would need to get started using their PC.
Like a media player with a music video.
And solitaire.
I don't understand tech people that still uses crap like Windoze...
I don't understand humans that still use air from the atmosphere to breathe.
I don't understand rail commuters that still board trains.
I don't understand grass seed companies that still use fescue seeds.
Windows is the most common platform out there- of course a large number of tech workers are still going to be using it.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
And come together to force Microsoft to release a non shit version of Windows 10. We know we can't fight Microsoft in court (we tried before). We need drastic action. I say we release a virus that mass installs Linux on computers and tell them that Microsoft upgraded them to Linux because Windows is shit.
Switch to Linux? Ha-ha.
It might be shitty bloatware, but there are no alternatives (other than those also running on Windows), and the complexity of the problem does not allow for an inhouse re-development, as there are not enough installs to rectify the cost.
Microsoft doesn't care what users think. Anyone who is surprised at this is just being silly. Microsoft has shown no desire to actually cater to users. Edge is quite possibly the most horrible web browser ever produced and they force it upon users. Windows 8 interface was a total failure, yet they still crammed it into the Windows 10 menu. These are only some examples. Microsoft has no motivation to actually make positive changes for end users.
Sent from my TARDIS
What the article fails to properly address is the massive outrage that Solitaire now *REQUIRES* internet access. No more plinking away at quick hands when the network is recycling, or a PC is being scanned. Ugh.
While this would be absolutely inexcusable behaviour for an OS, it doesn't match my experience with Windows 10. I haven't seen any unusual apps show up. My system looks remarkably clean. Almost suspiciously so...
Easy fix for this. Windows 10 LTSB/LTSC.
No.
Substantially normal people do not, in fact, see 'Trump' in everything.
Just the trolls, the disaffected Leftists, and of course you, who clearly forgot to post Anonymous.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
I honestly don't understand the issue at all. While the automatic Windows updates were a big problem for me, a problem which resurfaced a few times, I have never had an issue with the app store. I do not even have a Microsoft app store login. My Windows 10 has never tried to automatically install any apps.
Since buying this laptop a year and a half ago, I've done two Windows upgrades on it. Both times Cortana, Edge, and a few other built-in bits that are hard to remove showed back up, requiring install_wim_tweak to remove. But no app store programs have ever appeared.
Windows Update, though, was a huge problem for me. Microsoft doesn't get free reign to put updates on my computer, I vet each one and apply them. Microsoft has been pushing hard, especially with its last two "upgrades" to prevent people from disabling automatic updates. And I mean they have gone to heroics. Two "protected" windows services which have no other real duty except to look out for if the Windows Update service is disabled and undisable it. Also a whole host of task scheduler settings are doing the same thing. For those wanting control of Windows Update back, I highly recommend Windows Update Blocker in concert with Windows Update Mini Tool. There are several forum threads that speak toward how to do this relatively easily.
It's annoying but it's been a growing trend for a long time. Android phone makers are far worse in shipping unremovable random software. I remember years ago being infuriated that Linux distributions started shipping huge amounts of software as compulsory installed components (and even more as default options), while OSes like Solaris would still default to a minimal base install.
Having a system assume you want Python installed is less annoying than one assuming you want Candy Crush installed, but only marginally.
Anyway, it's an unstoppable trend.
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Before Windows 10, a clean install of Windows only included the bare essentials a user would need to get started using their PC
Really? There wasn't a huge lawsuit about this?
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
Wait, USB drivers were not bloatware. They just didn't work.
There's a difference.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
As of late, there have been alternatives for users to move to another operating system within the past 2 years now. The concern is this could potentially force consumers hands into make a decision sooner rather than later.
I play solitaire on my Windows laptop. No internet required.
A 17” laptop makes a nice card table once you close the lid, but you need to use small cards.
The even more ridiculous thing is that this happens even on the Pro version. The one that's supposed to be for doing work. And those "policies you can set that disable these apps from automatically installing"? Yeah, they don't work anymore. As a result every employee gets Candy Crush and the like installed on every machine. Absolutely insane.
Lots/most of times it's not for employees to say. The company endorses hardware/os/software for their people to use. You just shutup and use it if you wanna work for them. Period!
Yes, Windows 10 is a [...redacted...].
The document you're looking for is here, if you're stuck with it:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-...
I don't understand tech people that still uses crap like Windoze...
Then study up on network effects.
I for one do not expect or want to see fucking candycrush or minecraft on a clean install of an enterprise grade OS. So please explain to us mouth breathers how preinstalled fucking shit games is helping or guiding you? Fucking obvious troll is obvious
I'm running win 10. I don't see any such thing.
The real issue is that Microsoft doesn't see these things as bloatware for the Windows 10 intended audience. If you want a professional or enterprise OS, buy Windows 10 Enterprise. You will find that all the Microsoft crap is gone. Of course, it costs more, but has more support and capabilities (like VPN just works). If you run around buying home and SOHO versions, its intended for highschoolers who use candy crush and spotify.
Millions of people enjoyed playing the default solitaire under Windows 3.1, why would you complain about games in the default install?
What edition does Microsoft expect a small local business with about a dozen PCs to buy?
Do you expect the majority of desktop and laptop users in small and medium businesses to give up their desktop or laptop PC in favor of a mobile device connected to a cloud system backend? I didn't think so.
If anyone was really outraged, they would get something else.
That implies that there is something else for them to get. There really isn't. Microsoft was convicted in court of having a monopoly. Do you know what that word means? It means there aren't other options on the PC. The only other options are linux which perpetually lags Windows on the PC desktop in application options and the OS X which is both pricey and ties you to Apple. Both linux and OS X are fine options for some but as much as it irritates me to say it, Windows is the best offering available for a lot of people and companies. A lot of software people want is only available on Windows. If the people around you use Windows chances are high you will too. If you play games on your PC it's a virtual certainty are you are running Windows to do it.
"Grooming" will not recover the $10 per GB that your satellite or fixed-wireless ISP bills you for having downloaded the apps in the first place.
It happens when a new user account is created too, after already removing it from the primary user account.
Dear Microsoft User,
Understand one thing.
You are the consumer, NOT the customer.
In short, Fuck You Very Much, and Have a Nice Day.
- Microsoft
Once you install Windows 10, you no longer own your computer. Microsoft can install what ever they want on it, and reboot it when ever they want. That also gives them the ability to remove anything they want from your computer.
there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count
* those who can't
Meanwhile, in a saner world, I'm getting the kinks worked out of using Ubuntu 18.04 with a Virtualbox install of Windows 8 (to support the whole TWO Windows-only apps I need to keep using), and IDGAF about Windows 10 -- and never will. Why aren't you doing the same?
Nonsense, either get an Enterprise license
How many PCs does a company need before it qualifies to buy Windows 10 Enterprise licenses? And how much does it cost per seat? In my experience, "Request a Quote" as stated in Microsoft's comparison page means "if you have to ask, you can't afford it." The "Learn More & Try" link ultimately links to an ROI calculator, but I could not try the ROI calculator because it was blurred out by a modal dialog that requires the user to submit personal and company information and authorize a Microsoft salesperson to contact the user.
or just uninstall the apps
Just uninstalling the apps doesn't undo the fact that having downloaded them in the first place counts against the monthly data transfer allowance that your ISP imposes.
No and no. You are not having a stroke. And, no, it does not make any sense.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Enterprise. If you're using it for anything that even remotely resembles a business, they expect you to use enterprise. Otherwise you're someone who plays Candy Crush.
I confirm that even Enterprise Win 10 does this by default and you have to create policy to stop this from happening.
For entertainment.
I cannot play my games on Linux.
The millennial that doesn't like most of the stuff designed for millennials.
There is an easy fix for this that does not require anything too difficult. Use gpedit,msc and turn off all cloud content settings, then force a gpupdate. Remediate the crap that is there and you are done. Also, there are several good powershell scripts on spiceworks that will remove just about everything. Combine the two and things are good again. Also, when I set up new Windows 10 machines, I do not connect to a network until the above steps are completed.
Conservative, mod down for violating
Microsoft's shittyness reached intolerable levels (for me) during the Vista fiasco about 12 years ago, and I've stopped purchasing Windows. Instead I download and use pirated versions of Windows that have the phone-home "features" disabled and the worst of the bloat removed. The pirate groups that I recognize do an excellent job and also are quite trustworthy (that is, they don't put virus or trojans on it and is safe to use if you get it from their site).
"Put paid to X" is an obscure idiom that means to end/destroy X, in this case, ending the practice of downloading bloatware. The writer was being fancy. They really should "eschew obfuscation".
I'm not repeating myself
I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
Have a good graphics card? Windows is a supplementary product. Also, Windows gets better battery life on laptops. Plus there are lots of applications that only work on Windows. And the only real alternatives are Mac OS X (which runs only on Apple machines) and Ubuntu, which has problems like having to wait for repository middle-men to repackage apps like VLC before you can get them. Microsoft has the desktop and laptop market by the balls and they know it. Still, nobody plays Candy Crush on a frickin' laptop, so Microsoft, in their attempt to turn their "store" into a passive income source are needlessly burning goodwill...
So a home business or small office professional (lawyers, accountants, etc) have to buy Enterprise even if they have little need for many of the features?
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
What the hell do you think lawyers and accountants do? Them playing candy crush is more productive to society and anything else they ever do (which is mostly about enriching themselves).
"LTSB is a licensing option for Windows 10 Enterprise and is available only for customers with a Volume License agreement."
Not such an easy fix.
Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
>> " This is not a good user experience, Microsoft."
Yep.
Microsoft never gives a good user experience.
Did you expect something else ? why ?
aaaaaaa
I on the other hand don't understand neckbeards who still pretend Windoze should not be the preference of "tech people". Mac OS X is an elitist OS with slow hardware uptake, and unless the Desktop Linux people solve the problem of "my 2.5-year old LTS cannot get the latest VLC because the repository middle-men haven't repackaged it yet", I am not going nowhere near Desktop Linux, thank you very much. And so will 98% of the populance, tech people or not. Stop trying to pretend Desktop Linux is the natural home of "tech people". The release candidate of Windows 7 managed to get more "tech people" to install it than the entirety of Desktop Linux ecosystem, despite not being marketed by Microsoft in any way. Those were "tech people" who actively avoided and still avoid Desktop Linux despite being free.
Doesn't really do anything
All you will get is a boiler plate thank you for using our app we have sent the review to the relevant teams and nothing changes.
The millennial that doesn't like most of the stuff designed for millennials.
I like Linux, but Windows has some advantages, that is why My system is setup for duel boot.
This is my experience, other peoples impressions may very (Due to differences in hardware)
1. UI seems to have better responses times. From watching a video, playing games, or just dealing with a Code Editor the UI seems to run a bit more quickly and more responsibly.
2. Better support for hardware and drivers. Heck on a System 76 Laptop supposedly built for Linux, the Fingerprint reader works in Windows but not in Linux. Also If I have some USB Device, there is a better chance of it working for Windows.
3. Software Availability. Unfortunately for some software there really isn't a good Linux version, or replacement. I have yet to find something really comparable to Photoshop. GIMP is usable but not really that good.
4. Works better with well work. If you work for a company that is a Microsoft Shop, then having windows to do you work with it makes things much easier. (and not getting blamed for using a silly hacked solution)
5. Libraries, There are a bunch of good libaries that are windows only, and most of the open source libraries for Linux have a windows port.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I watched this video immediately before opening slashdot and seeing this story. By coincidence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
I actually already knew something about this. Just happen to see Linus' rendition. Not Torvalds. The other one.
Seems like Valve really has had it out for MS going to back windows 8. Now there's really no reason to run Win 10 any more. Unless you want to manage hyper-v.
"UNIX is very simple, it just needs a genius to understand its simplicity." -Dennis Ritchie
I mean, people keep getting Windows despite all the abuse they are subjected to.
"Enterprise-grade" only describes capabilities and code quality. Actually subscribing to the Enterprise version means you've paid the protection money to make sure nothing bad happens to the nice set up you've got there.
As a vendor who sells Windows pre-installed on my machines, I am outraged by this! Microsoft should be pre-installing MY bloatware, not someone else's bloatware! I demand that Microsoft automatically install 3 firewalls, 4 backup utilities, 2 CD burners, 30-day trials of all Intuit software, plus a free office suite that can't open any formats you've ever heard of.
Perhaps, But I doubt you will see to many Open Source Development projects for "Rare use device, made by only a few vender's who will only offer support if you use their own software"
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Well how to define bloatware? Is it just a program that is installed that you never use, or not needed by an other application?
If that is the case Bloat where was around back in the MSDos 3 days. If you weren't a programmer, why is you disk filled with GWBasic!
MSDos 5 you got these silly games where you throw bananas at each other.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I was going to joke about how Candy Crush is so 2012, and then I saw they're still pulling in hundreds of millions of dollars per year with around 300 million active users a month (at least at the end of 2017). So uh... I guess for a large part of the population, it's still a key application that should be standard...?
Your computer belongs to M$.
Seriously.
Do you really consider Windows a necessity of the same magnitude as air, rail transportation etc? Talk about a Stockholm syndrome.
No wonder you'll get raped for all eternity, you're essentially telling us you can't live without Windows and thus a total hostage to Microsoft. It's bizarre. You're actually mentally ill.
almost all app are web apps that run on a browser, by a few years now: it's just an excuse to use Windoze, in the majority of cases * I used to work for serpro.gov.br : almost all desktops there runs linux (besides a few cases where run Windoze is needed, there's some [normally old] managers that still use windows by lack of knowledge...)
The thing is, you simply can NOT buy Win 10 Enterprise unless you are a large company. They sell licenses starting with 50 users.
Did no one else notice this is from February? How is this "news"? I know it's still happening, but come on, did someone just feel like digging up anti-M$ dirt?.
yeap, and tech-savy people using windows (mostly for playing games...) is a bad example (stimulating non tech-savy people to use it...), I think...
Be careful that you're not standing in a glass house before throwing stones at Microsoft. Ubuntu has a history of installing third-party crap into their default installations as well. Apple doesn't, but MAN they really make it hard not to pay for an upgraded iCloud account if you're using one of their devices.
The post is not related to any particular distro...
And Microsoft wonders why so many companies are still using Windows 7! Here's a hint: I don't need Candy Crush on my work computer!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Interesting, I"ve never run into this with my Apple stuff (iPad, iPhone and mbp).
In fact, until just recently, I'd never really even used the iCloud that came free with it, and I only use that just enough now to help keep sync between the 3 items the messages, etc.....
I've never seen a reason to, nor felt compelled to pay for iCloud and I use my Macs for a LOT of stuff.....can you give some examples where they are making "it hard not to pay for an upgraded iCloud account if you're using one of their devices."
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
This is not a good user experience, Microsoft.
You're assuming that Microsoft wants to give you a good user experience. They do not. They want to make money. And since Candy Crush is paying them more than you are, this is the result.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Really? How is a web app supposed to know about an attached hardware device (in this case, a special purpose 3d scanner for orthodontics)?
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Thanks for giving me the push to finally move my computing infrastructure to Linux/BSD.
So there is this handy little utility called the MSMG Toolkit. You'll have to make a junk login for the forum but it's well worth it. https://forums.mydigitallife.n... Basically, you can modify your ISO so annoying things like Windows Store, Cortana, Edge, every single app, all kinds of things just aren't there when you do your clean install or upgrade from DVD. Not "disabled"...I mean not there at all. It's not the most user friendly thing in the world but there is a handy youtube video where the dude walks you through it. It's like of like that old utility nLite for windows XP except without a pretty GUI. Makes the new Windows 10 experience a lot more tolerable.
Seriously.
Do you really consider Windows a necessity of the same magnitude as air, rail transportation etc? Talk about a Stockholm syndrome.
No wonder you'll get raped for all eternity, you're essentially telling us you can't live without Windows and thus a total hostage to Microsoft. It's bizarre. You're actually mentally ill.
If I'm writing software for people using Windows machines. Yes. If I'm supporting people using Windows machines. Yes.
It's only a fantasy land that all your clients run Linux desktops.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Battery life. My laptop (t470) gets 20h battery life streaming a youtube video over wifi in windows, and 7h doing the same in linux. I get 6 hours compiling linux kernel in a loop in a linux vm, and only 4 doing the same in linux natively on the same hardware. microsoft has better docs from intel, and until this changes, linux on laptop is only a joke, or for people who do not care about battery life one notable exception: chromebooks, because google also gets ecret intel docs i assume.
-------
1. Enjoy your job
2. Make lots of money
3. Work within the law
Choose any two.
Same bloat?
You are talking about a very specific case, that may need windoze...
You'd think HIPAA requirements would send that straight to a *NIX type machine, as Win anything is wholly incapable of meeting the security aspects.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Very strange... Battery life is not so different in laptops I've got some contact with...
I don't understand tech people that still uses crap like Windoze...
...
Windows is the most common platform out there- of course a large number of tech workers are still going to be using it.
It's interesting then that in my world, the windows using tech worker is an exception. Hundreds of devs and tech workers I work with all use *nix of one flavor or another. Why? Because everything they do pretty much interacts with a *nix server. In fact, I can't recall touching a windows "server" in at least 5 years at a multitude of clients big and small.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Haha if only. All kinds of scientific, industrial and automotive equipment interface software only runs on Windows, all from industries that should bloody well know better.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
That's living from the status quo and a coasting on inertia, not necessity.
Windows isn't necessary. Society was working pretty well up to the late 1980's when Microsoft became dominant. If Microsoft went insta-kaboom, it would still continue to work. It would certainly be problematic until the problems it would cause were solved were solved, but they would be solved. You'd be amazed how fast all kinds of solutions not involving Microsoft would pop up if they just went away, because suddenly there's a motivation rather than whiny resistance. It certainly wouldn't be a disaster like removing air or rail transport, statements like that is just an insane amount of hyperbole from hysterics who are afraid of change.
Oh, I agree. When Win 10 first came out, I submitted an article that I titled "Is Windows 10 a HIPAA Violation Waiting To Happen?".
Unfortunately, at this point, when you buy new computing hardware, you can't get 7 or 8 (as bad as 8 was, it didn't have this shit).
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Dude, your sig is SO appropriate to this topic, and your comment in particular.
Congratulations (and I'm serious there).
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
"It's a poor craftsman that blames his tools", and sometimes Windows is the tool you have to use.
"Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
The problem is our lives revolve around proprietary software, that aren't run by people like who... So Windows it is
Microsoft Store? What's that?
(I'm just a personal user and not a company anything, so this configuration probably isn't for you.) I've got legal copies of windows, yet I run a Pirated Windows LTSB version (Verified ISO.) It works perfectly fine, I've got control of when updates happen (although it still occasionally full-screen nags), and I don't have to put up with monthly experiments on the GUI.
I can't purchase things from the Microsoft Store since the app is missing, but I consider that a baseline GOOD thing. My login creds are strictly local without having to touch the internet. Oh, and did I mention that my interface stays stable over time?
I do like the configuration in 57368280, although that's a bunch of extra work. Also, I *DO* think there's a way to uninstall the Store in normal Windows (or maybe hiding it or its target directories behind special ACLs), just do it before connecting to the internet.
If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
If you honestly think someone like me is going to give up their favorite hobby to avoid setting a "BAD EXAMPLE" you're incredibly naiive. And no I'm not going to switch to Linux compaitble games. That's like giveing up chocolate for carob on religious grounds. Never going to happen.
"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
Hey, this is annoying. It sucks to have bloatware installed automagically. But what is much worse? The fact that I can't organize the Start Menu anymore. All of the bloatware Windows Store Apps such as "Mixed Reality Portal" are at the top level of an alphabetical list. I can't put them in a subfolder labeled "Crap" ... or, as I label it in the Apple domain, "iCrap"
Principles, principles... :P
If there's software to connect to the Internet, your drive isn't wiped.
I don't respond to AC's.
You are the resource.
There isn't money in selling operating systems anymore (or really for the last 20 years). It's all about the bundling deals with partners.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
But you absolutely can buy new computing hardware without windows as just a few examples. So there's no excuse for buying substandard security for any reason.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Easy solution: Uninstall the Windows Store completely (along with anything else you want gone listed in this link):
https://www.laptopmag.com/arti...
Store: Get-AppxPackage *windowsstore* | Remove-AppxPackage
I think 'drooling idiots that use Windows' is a tad harsh. I have to use Windows at work like most people. I tried to run Linux at home on the family computer several times but it just got old when all your Steam games wouldn't work, or the kids want to play Roblox and there was no Linux support, or you hardware choices were limited.
I would add I am still holding onto Windows 7 as long as possible...
I second this I dual boot a fairly modern i7 8th gen Asus laptop and as long as the activities are usually similar (ie mostly using the integrated graphics vs the discreet) I find runtimes very close and usually Linux(4.19 kern Manjaro) seems to edge out Windows.
https://www.fsf.org/associate/support_freedom
Tell me that again.
I work for one of worlds largest engineering firms, and they still run Windows 7SP1
When Linux, out of the box can do the following, then it is enterprise ready:
A) run all Autodesk software going back to 2014
B) run all Adobe software count back to CS4
C) remotely deploy software patches while the user is still using the machine without forcing them off it and losing their work.
D) remotely install the OS unattended, and not just Dell Servers with OOB DRAC cards.
E) work with all NVidia Quadro parts
F) work with all NVme drives
G) work with thunderbolt usb-c hardware docking stations and proprietary dell models.
H) work with usb license dongles
Linux works okay for cheap web hosting (Free/NetBSD is better) but really what is holding Linux back is one standard hardware configuration that Adobe and Autodesk can work on. If that hurdle could be reached, Iâ(TM)m sure nvidia would be encouraged to develop enterprise drivers. Until then, there are none.
You have the same relationship with almost any of the auto-updates sources you likely have enabled, regardless of OS.
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
This post is very confusing to me. EVERY Windows 10 PC? I've been using Windows 10 for years and NOTHING from a third party has EVER been installed automatically onto my machine. And by "machine," I mean a half-dozen different machines. I'm on a Windows 10 machine right now and none of the listed applications is installed on it. I last bought a brand-new Windows 10 machine in June and none of these apps is installed on it, either. So where is this idea coming from? I'd really like to know.
Breakfast served all day!
Things as simple as editing an old excel file just don't work properly.
Maybe you're doing something wrong. LibreOffice works like a champ with all my spreadsheets.
microsoft free (and good riddance) since July 4th.
Circle the wagons and fire inward. Entropy increases without bounds.
Canâ(TM)t agree more. Even on a prosumer front, using a Thunderbolt 3 docking station causes compatibility issues on Linux where I simply canâ(TM)t address an external GPU reliably - and thatâ(TM)s acknowledging the current cold plug requirement for External GPUs. The work around is to host a VM, present the secondary card to it, and then distribute tensorflow models to it for execution. Anything short of that and itâ(TM)s a 50/50 chance whether it will run on my laptopâ(TM)s discrete gpu or give me the external. And for those of you who go âoeyou should be using a desktop or a cloud hostâ, Iâ(TM)d like to say âoeI travel quite a bitâ.
Thirty four characters live here.
Again, the issue is that some (external) hardware requires Windows. And you can't buy 7, other than third party, and it's EOL'ed beginning of 2020. Similarly, as atrocious as 8 is, it's EOL'ing in 2023.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
We have 1 machine used for gaming as the reset is Linux. Sadly it's purpose most days is media, music, and gaming.
Two things keeping us on a singular Windows machine:
1.) FL Studio (We just like how it works versus other DAW's)
2.) Gaming as a whole (not just some games.)
Once we can get past these without having to run a Windows VM to run an application we'd prefer to a higher native degree, then we will be 100% Linux.
Possibly, but there are a lot of technical oriented tools that only work on Windows. You may be able to find alternatives of course but it's a lot of extra work and the alternatives often aren't as good as the original. A lot of this comes from having Windows programmers be so numerous and inexpensive. Other times they just don't want to pay the cost of maintaining expensive software on more than one platform. These are a big driver of VM software so that you can use the tools even if on Mac or Linux.
For a good example, FPGA software for the popular vendors.
Apparently Windows 10 Pro no longer means Professional. Pro users are also treated badly even though it's impossible to buy the Enterprise edition if you're not actually an enterprise.
The whole point behind the big changes in Windows 8 and 10 was to monetize the customers. Microsoft wanted a piece of the pie that they assumed Apple and Google were getting, only doing this on the PC rather than in content displaying devices.
Windows 10 Enterprise seems to only be available through Volume Licensing. I don't know exactlly what qualifies as Volume Licensing, but I'm pretty sure it's more than most small businesses.
I really doubt that Microsoft is doing this.
I don't. I found Candy Crush on my Win 10 system after the last (and I mean last) forced update when I was looking in Defender for a way to open a hole in the firewall. There was a hole for Candy Crush there. Huh?
You can't buy a "mac OS" DVD and install it on some random hardware, which is what a "clean install" means in common parlance.
"Clean install" means installing onto an empty hard drive, not "random hardware". Windows doesn't run on "random hardware", either. Yes, you can do a clean install on MacOS. I've done it when I had to replace a failed hard drive on a Macbook.
But who plays Candy Crush on a laptop, and why?
Because Windows has historically sucked as a development environment. It has ever so slightly improved over time but it's still just a wannabe if you're not developing Windows applications.
If technology is your true obsession in traditional Slashdot sense
Many people for whom technology is their true obsession have friends or relatives for whom technology is not their true obsession.
then you could really care less about people running Windows because it's not you.
I regularly use Xubuntu but must support friends and relatives using Windows. Some use Windows because all applications or peripherals in a particular category are incompatible with X11/Linux.
You're already running Linux and think the rest of the world should just give up, and you're paying for gigabit fiber because #fiber.
If fiber costs 6 figures where you live,[1][2][3] you're probably not going to get fiber even if you are technically inclined.
You'll not even be aware that the ISP's covering the majority of the population
Several of my friends are or were among the minority who use satellite or fixed cellular because they live in an area not covered by fiber or cable.
or you'll be thankful that in Windows you can set a connection as Metered to limit background downloads.
Does "Metered" stop these particular applications from being downloaded? Last time I used Windows 10, I seem to remember that the UI of Windows Update stated that some updates (to the effect) "necessary to keep Windows running" would still be downloaded over metered connections. In addition, the UI allows marking only Wi-Fi, not an Ethernet connection to a satellite or cellular modem, as metered. It's possible to mark Ethernet as metered but only with registry tweaks.
[1] "Want fiber Internet? That’ll be $383,500, ISP tells farm owner" by Jon Brodkin
[2] "Man builds house, then finds out cable Internet will cost $117,000" by Jon Brodkin
[3] "Victorian couple quoted up to $1.2m to connect to NBN Co's fibre service" by Jessica Longbottom and Ben Knight
Even for Windows shops they've moved everything to the cloud (because the masters at Microsoft told them to). Word, Excel, Sharepoint, Outlook, and all the "must have" Windows crap is now in the cloud. I was really worried after my company was acquired by a big Windows oriented company, but so far the Macs work great because all the Windows stuff is online.
Although a Mac has always worked reasonably well with Office. Unlike an earlier job where I had one Windows computer for email and Office apps and a second computer to do the actual work; crazy but that's why office chairs swivel.
Then the answer has been in the special case above: buy a special purpose machine, and keep it air-gapped. Yes, that makes transfers a pain in the ass, but at least you won't be leaking patient records to the world.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
I just bought the Surface Go to install linux (xubuntu 18.04) on it. Out of box experience is the best I've had with tablets (since all I tried were Atom based and this is Core M successor, as in really a Core i chip).
The 1st problem was wifi chip (a bin download solved this).
After 1 week, I got to the details:
- idle desktop power draw: 1.5-2W in W10, 3W in ubuntu
- 1080p60 streaming: 7w in W10, 10W in ubuntu
So....now I want to see where I can reduce power consumption; and video streaming is a problem as only chromium-dev has HW decoding and is really unstable.
Oh...shit.....MS still got my money!
When you say that manufacturer's support Windows, that is true, but it goes a bit further. For instance, many USB devices will only work on Windows but mysteriously fail on other systems because those device don't follow standards.
If there's software to connect to the Internet, your drive isn't wiped.
Welcome to Pixie, my friend.
You do understand that Enterprise is entirely overkill for most small businesses right like a one person law office. You do understand that Enterprise is per year licensing right? Please tell me why a lawyer in a one person law firm should get Enterprise over Pro.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
The CRTC has fined companies, for example A $250,000 Reminder that "CASL" is Not Just an Anti-Spam Law
, In that case, the action was taken under Canada’s Anti-Spam Law using section 8 of the Act, which prohibits the installation of software without consent, including malware.
There are at least two class actions waiting for the proclamation of a section which allows American-style suits in additional to prosecution. Guess who they target?
See also https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/interne...
davecb@spamcop.net
> This is not a good user experience, Microsoft.
Well, not for *us*. It's great for Microsoft.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
WTF? I agree with you. And was complimenting you.
My point was that even Enterprise has this shit, maybe less, but still has it, even though "it's not got much spam in it".
There is NO reason that they should force Enterprise on anyone to avoid bullshit. I can see this in Home, but Pro versions should be able to stop this shit.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Seriously, unless you are a gamer, why use Windows? A Linux install will get you access to Chrome or Firefox just like Windows will. Go buy a Mac if you want. Just stop using Microsoft products and they'll take notice.
The only thing I still need Windows for is Adobe Creative Cloud. Which doesn't quite work under Wine. The moment there exists a native port to Linux, I'll leave M$ and Apple behind and never look back.
Why not a mac? Because I don't want to be locked into the hardware. I can build a high performance Linux or even Windows box for a fraction of the cost of a mac, and it's equipped with what I need, not with what Apple thinks I should have.
A pox on both their houses.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Some of these apps shared something, likely the microsoft installer service, with Windows Update so if you manually started running updates too soon it'd crash the install of the apps and hang windows updates and upon reboot you wouldn't be able to open the start menu. You'd click it and nothing would happen. They allegedly fixed this but all they really did was make it less prevalent.
Well, for one thing, your phone will stop backing itself up properly once you hit the 5 GB storage limit on the free account.
You have a problem with accountants? I get the lawyer hatred... But accountants?
I agree.. It's linux's fault it can't open old windows files.. Just like it's Windows fault that it can't read punch cards from the IBM mainframe era.
Can't read a punch card? Windows sucks!
Many Linux distributions offer paid support. (Redhat is one).. So, you can pay for windows and get free support, or get free Linux and pay for support...
What is the problem?
The way I remember it was WIndows 95 OSR2 would do its install and then upon the first bootup, it would immediately launch the installer for IE4 and gave you no option to cancel or decline it. Microsoft did a pretty good job of keeping you from getting out of the installer, but there was nothing they could do about the reset switch. After booting back up, the forced IE4 installer was gone and the OS was perfectly functional (as Windows 95 goes) without it. I think you may have been stuck with IE3 doing this but I don't remember now.
Last time I played with it, it doesn't disable completely but basically acts like a copy that Microsoft has decided has been pirated. Since you don't actually have a license at that point I guess to Microsoft it's basically one and the same.
Also, even if you do get a license, you couldn't just reactivate your old trial install - you have to a fresh reinstall. Don't know if that's the same either.
I don't understand tech people that still uses crap like Windoze...
Because the other option is crapple
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
and because of these types of nonsense i don't want anything to do with windows. it's just one more item to add to an already long list of things that windows does.
you don't need windows, or at least 95% (if not more) of _home_ users are perfectly fine on another (linux based) OS.
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
Maybe YOU should learn what it means. You aren't "convicted" of having a monopoly.
Thank you Captian Pedantic. You saved the day again!
Here's a little clue for you. For a company to be convicted of abusing a monopoly (which Microsoft was) it has to first be established in a court of law that they actually ARE a monopoly. You are correct that it is not illegal to be a monopoly and that convict is technically the wrong word. The purpose of my statementi s that Microsoft's monopoly status was established beyond any doubt in a court room for anyone who foolishly doubted it prior to that. The point is that there isn't much in the way of other options for PC operating systems because Microsoft has a de-facto monopoly on PC operating systems. Monopoly status = minimal alternative options. Got it?
Pay a Linux company to run Windows... How about just using Windows? Seriously, I tried Linux several times in the span of a decade, hoping that Linux would become a strong contender to Windows. That hope faded steadily over the years when trying out new promising distributions and revisiting old distributions. I couldn't see any difference from something made in 2006 or something made in 2012. I'm not only referencing the various CLI and GUI interfaces, I'm also referring to the experience. Nothing had been made to make life easier. Still the same poor PnP support, still a pain in the butt to try and make hardware work, still the same ugly CLI interface everywhere, and doing the simplest thing more often than not required a CLI command, or it was simply faster. Linux also feels like stacking a house of card in a bog. Take one wrong look at Linux and it comes crashing down. Everything also changes so quickly that regular software companies cant keep up with Linux. Last thing is the horrible Linux community filled to the brim with the most anti-social people you can find on Earth.
I back my phone up to the computer....no need for iCloud for that...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Too many people excused the anti-customer spyware/malware behavior of Microsoft and Windows 10 because "it is free". But, it is NOT FREE NOW. There is absolutely no excuse for a paid product to behave this way. I guess Microsoft will keep on until another Federal investigation occurs. Since they are charging for Windows 10 licenses now, I asked Microsoft if that version would be devoid of the spyware. They never responded, so that must mean, "no".
We have been using Debian Linux at home for many years now and have not missed Windows. I run Windows 7 in a VM so I can run Quickbooks. That's all I need it for. I am getting more and more friends and family on Linux all the time, and it is working for them too. My uncle is an old Microsoft guy (former contractor) and now runs Linux Mint at home and at work and loves it. I got my teenage niece on Linux and she *never* calls me with problems. She called me once about how to hook up her printer. I told her to plug it in-she said "Oh, it says 'configuring printer'. Oh, hey! It's printing!" - and this was a random Canon inkjet printer. Just worked. I have my sister-in-law on Linux Mint now too.. She paid $45 for a perpetual license of Moneydance software and switched from abusive Quicken and she is off and running, downloading from her bank, etc. No issues. She's a professor in a community college in L.A. and runs Mint on her personal laptop. I got my cousin's wife on Linux Mint as well. She's been running it for a year now and I haven't had a *single* phone call for support. My mom's computer is next! I love instlalling Linux for people because *they don't call me for support ever*. :)
Most applications are developed as Windows applications, sorry.
The Windows 8/10 network GUI shows "Metered" only for Wi-Fi, not for wired Ethernet. Instead, the user has to edit the registry to change the default media cost of all Ethernet connections. If a less-technical user's desktop PC has an Ethernet connection to the satellite or fixed-cellular modem, the user is unlikely to know that it's even possible to mark Ethernet as metered.
Because some of our clients have specialized equipment with interface software that only runs on Windows?
That may be true in some cases, but I bet the vast majority of Windows installations are on systems without any special hardware at all.
If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
True, but that doesn't mean the development environment doesn't suck.
It doesn't. Unix weenies think it does.
The Windows development environment starts by buying additional tools, usually IDEs in which you spend all your time so that you don't have to interact with the rest of Windows.
Have to run it each time after update but much easier to remove than manually doing each one. http://github.com/arcadesdude/...
--arcades
By all means use Windows. I'm not a zealot and think a person should use what they want to use or what works best for them. I still have a Windows 7 PC. It does some things that I haven't been able to accomplish on Linux (running Photoshop for one example). And yes, Linux does not have drivers for all brand new devices/peripherals. Although, it is fairly easy to find out if a particular device does have driver support or not. Most of the time, if the hardware is common (printer, etc), the driver will appear eventually.
But.... if you are going to use Windows you will have to resign yourself to the fact that you don't/can't know everything it is doing. I think it is somewhat fair to say that at this point maybe MS doesn't exactly have your best intentions at heart.. Windows 10 seems to be on track to be a walled garden and an ad delivery system. It's not exactly there yet, but I don't think it's hyperbole to say that it is at least at few steps down that path. MS is certainly back up to their old tricks with Edge and Windows 10. We've seen the pop-ups that claim that using anything besides Edge is somehow "insecure". I personally think that is a load of bullshit and is a very typical MS tactic. They've been pulling this crap since the DR-DOS days...
I do believe that Linux is the better choice, all things being equal. i.e. If what you need to do can be accomplished in both, then I would recommend Linux. The Linux live-cds / thumbdrives have made testing hardware configurations pretty easy.
I am 100% Linux (or modified Linux) for my business. I absolutely will not trust MS / Windows with anything critical. Your mileage / opinion may be different, and that's fine. But for me, Linux (Debian and RouterOS) have proven themselves over and over again for stability and reliability. Yeah, I have to go through an extra step or two when choosing hardware, but I'm okay with that.
All OS's will have security issues from time to time and Linux is no exception, but the reaction times (in my experience) seem to favor Linux when one measures the time from exploit to patch. There certainly are also far more attacks on Windows. Certainly part of that is because it is a much larger target audience, but I'm sure some of it is due to design deficiencies. Windows has an awful large burden of legacy code or legacy compatibility to lug around. Linux not so much..
I would recommend taking another look at Linux, specifically Linux Mint.. It's one hell of a nice OS. It might change your view on Linux.. You can get a Live CD for it, so it's a painless test process.
I'm very happy that I made the switch (mostly) to Linux about two decades ago (Debian 2.2 if memory serves).. I have never regretted it. I do still have to keep that one laptop with Win7 around, but its days are numbered. Once support for Windows 7 ends I will not upgrade to a newer MS OS. Worst case scenario; I'll buy one last Win7 license and install it in a VM.
if only someone would actually make a distribution that works on every f**king machine I have without it f**king up on some or other thing on at least every computer I have, except for that single one computer, which gets f**ked up after the first upgrade.
SERIOUSLY WTF :tableflip:
passphrase : artifact
That's a pretty good job of trolling you did there. Good enough, in fact, that I can use it as a springboard for something useful. Microsoft has the active and willing co-operation of virtually every hardware vendor in the space, while Linux devs get very little of that co-operation, and in fact often have to resort to very complex and time-consuming reverse engineering. Many of the people who do this volunteer their time, and as much as I swear at Linux for its various deficiencies, I always feel deep gratitude for those who provide and maintain it, and I always keep in mind how much worse Windows is in so, so many ways. Not the least of which is that, whenever I'm forced to use Windows, I feel as though I've been slimed and need to take a shower. In particular, using Windows 10 makes me feel viscerally disgusted, and I only do it when the need is extreme. Linux never provokes that reaction in me.
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
Every other operating system (Android, Windows Mac OS X, iOS, even frickin' AmigaOS) works the normal way, aka the developer creates the package and either uploads it to some website or to some "store". Only Desktop Linux (and to a lesser degree Unix) imposes the need of repository middlemen who will repackage applications (it's not a security fiasco waiting to happen, honest) or forces the user to package the application himself. Stop acting as if this is something normal. PS: I will believe Snaps or Flatpack when I see them working for more than a handful of apps.
"We are not anti-union, but we are not neutral either" says the narrator in the video. So they're pro-union? Logically that's the only position remaining. They seem to be really bad at helping people unionize.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Microsoft does not give s#!t about your user experience.