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Geeks vs. Nerds
alanh writes "Last week, the News and Observer from the RTP area of NC had this article about the modern usage of the words "Geek" and "Nerd." " Typical piece about the ascendancy of "geeks" and "nerds". However, an interesting question: How do you view the difference between the two words? Or do they mean the same thing?
Both terms always seemed negative when I was growing up. I don't like either one much. Did I get first post? PEACE
Nerds post second & think they're first...
Geeks are circus freaks who bite the heads off chickens. Nerds are those losers from that string of bad 80's movies.
If you aspire to be either, you're an idiot.
Geeks and Nerds both are rapidly becoming "envogue" I mean look at Slashdot.org News for nerds with hundred thousands of people visiting every day practically accepting that they are Nerds? And aren't Nerds the negitive definition?
In movies the geeks and nerds always become the heros.. It started with the "Revenge of the Nerds" but even recently look at "Sleepy Hollow" wasn't Ichabod Crane some sort of Nerd...
Hell I am proud to be NERD.. And I am going to stop rambling.
Movie News - "Entertainment news, bitch!"
Geek is techo-chic, nerd is a word I prefer not to be heard :-)
smile, it makes everyone else wonder what you're up to
Geeks are those kids who sorta know computer stuff generally, but won't ever get anywhere with it. They enjoy reading freshmeat solely to bring up the newest release of bind in their conversations with other geeks.
The nerd, on the other hand, is less prone to conversing about the various what-came-out-todays. The interest is more professional, more focused on a purpose than a vague interest in the field. These are the guys who WRITE the software the geeks bring up in their little geek conversations.
What did you eat today? http://www.atetoday.com/
IEEE Spectrum has a very nice section about interesting words that show up in the electrical engineering discipline. I remember reading an article discussing the etymology of the word "nerd" in a past issue, perhaps a couple of years ago. It suggested that the word probably originated at MIT and was a derivative of "knurd". Some people thought that the word was first coined as "knurd" since it was the reverse of "drunk", hence somebody who does not drink and party. I don't remember the details, but it was very entertaining and informative.
Any ideas/knowledge about the origins of these two words "geek" and "nerd"??
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There's power in co-opting a negatively-tainted word and turning it into a positive word. Queer and Nigger are both words that are, in the appropriate peer group, used as power words.
Unfortunately, I can't think of other examples. If you can, contribute some; it'll be interesting and maybe enlightening.
My own resume uses "Professional Geek" as one heading. I take pride in the knowledge I have. I think all geeks should.
First thing we need is a slogan as powerful and funny as the "We're queer, we're here and we're going shopping!" one...
"We're geeks, we're..." ??
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If nerd means drunk I prefer that, specially on weekends...
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Or a dweeb...
The most important differences are as follows:
Geek: Thinks Milli Vanilli were pretty cool, scandal or not.
Nerd: Did the spectral analysis on their voices to determine lip-synching well before the press announcement.
Geek: Has 3 friends and trouble meeting new people.
Nerd: Has 3 friends, but recyles through the use of role playing games and secret code names, bringing the total to 27.
Geek: Will be at home come the new millenium.
Nerd: Did the math to figure out the new millenium starts 2001, will be at home for both.
Hotnutz.com
i think the sig said something like nerds are people who play with technology but geeks enjoy it. makes sense to me.
"you get hit and your head goes ping" --rocky horror picture show
I've wondered this myself, and the conclusion I've come to is that a geek utilizes his skills in the real world; whether that be a trade, or the running of a Charity.
A nerd is someone who has yet to apply it to the real world. This is an acceptable status, especially if you're still in school.
Or maybe I'm mistaking overanalysis with an imagination for reading into things... I think that's it. (No, I don't care that I just rendered my entire message senseless.)
Hmm, this must be a popular topic. This has come up before, but not quite in the same format. In these quickies there's a point-form chart discussing the differences between nerds, geeks, and twits.
Geeks are more refined.
Strange. I've always placed "geek" as being better than "nerd"...
In my interpretation:
Geeks have broad general knowledge... just enough to be dangerous in almost anything, and enough to actually be quite competent in many areas.
Nerds have deep, specific knowledge... enough to do anything that can be done in their specialty, and not particularly capable of applying that knowledge in other fields.
Geeks obsess over everything techie.
Nerds obsess over one thing to the exclusion of everything else.
You can be a photography geek, an audio geek, a computer geek, a bike geek. A geek that's geeky about one thing is probably geeky about half a dozen completely unrelated other things.
You can be a photography nerd, but it's probably more at the print development stage than the picking a lense stage. You can be an audio nerd, but it's probably more at the building the amp than creating the best sound environment level. You can be a computer nerd, but it's probably more at the writing a one-off specialized integrated database level than the system tweaking level.
Is your interpretation different? Howso?
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Some of my fellow students and I have decided that a Nerd is someone into computers ie. Programmers, Hackers. A Geek on the other hand is anyone who is social challenged in any way. Given this if you are a Nerd you can't be a Geek. The only reason for this definition is that the word Nerd seems to be a buzzword for ppl who are making it big in the computer world now. And afterall those of us who made this definition are CS majors :P Well I figured I would put in my two cents just because I didn't have anything better to do.
A nerd is someone who is fascinated by everything except how to dress.
What about that Nerd who can outdrink an Irishman? That nerd who likes to get in bar fights? That nerd who actually takes time to leave his cave and mate with women?
I shall be known as "RiotNRRD!"
Let's call the whole thing off.
Honestly, what's in a name. Weather a moniker intimates respect or contempt has little to do with the word, and more to do with the associated stereotype. For example if you called someone discriminating today, it would probably be a negative comment. Fifty years ago it would have been a compliment. The deal is that people who are part of that steroetype are suddenly suceeding in buisness, and clearly are controling the means of communication for the next years.
Like in the whole Littletown media debacle, or many others, terms like Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Cracker, Phreaker, or Goth are used by people who don't have any idea of what they are describing. Perhaps the issue here is that noone can agree on what a nerd is or weather nerd or geek is preferable is up in the air.
To put this in perspective, I'm a foreigner in the us, and in my few years here I've observed the transition from handicapped to disabled as a "euphemism" for people with physical difficulties. Now, I suppose they were originally referred to as Cripples which is now considerd a relatively ugly word, but cripple and cripple are still acceptable.
What is true however, is that the term is considered a perjorative by those who are distant from the issues, the ones that don't know who or what is going on. I don't think that Nigger originally referred to black er african american persons, but something along the lines of greedy, selfish, lazy, self-serving persons.
The terms nerd and geek are used by the same sort of people who associated the littletown incident with goths, but instead of people who wear black, they usually refer to people who are intelectually inclined, and may have poor grooming habits.
A geek, at least last time I thought about these things is a freaky person, someone who might bite heads off chickens, someone who sticks out of social situations in a big way. The term geek has been applied to people who aren't interested in computers, or smart enought o piss a whole in the snow if someone else helps them aim. Nerds on the other hand are people who are poorly groomed, socially simpleminded, and academically inclined.
I suppose that all has changed a whole lot in the last five years. Any sort of choice that you make isn;t going to affect the people around you a whole lot, since they have either made a distinction themselves already, or have no idea what the difference is.
IMHO, they are now virtually synonymous. Perhaps one of the skills separating true geeks and nerds from the lesser-blessed members of society is the ability to use the right synonym at the right time.
I, for one, am extremely thankful that I live in a time when I can be proud of who I am. The geeks have certainly inherited the Earth.
Washington, DC: It's like Hollywood for ugly people.
A geek is someone who works with computers.
A nerd is someone who enjoys it.
A geek is someone that not only knows the theory and facts of a subject, but can USE them effectively to do something that has meaning in the real world.
Geek is a term I call someone I respect in a given field. Nerd is generally a term for someone who is smart, but lacks that needed clue. Nerds are smart but annoying to geeks, but can be turned into geeks with enough self-improvement.
Trivia buffs are nerds, Edison and Einstein were geeks.
A college degree seems to have the highest chances of turning a nerd into a geek. This is especially true of those who live away from home and on campus, where socialization with people in other fields can take place - something nerds lack.
- Adam L. Beberg - The Cosm Project - http://www.mithral.com/
Maybe it was because I used to stop by my algebra teacher's office every morning to talk about Ham Radio. Maybe it was because I used to sit beneath the play structures with a magnet looking for magnetic iron ore. Maybe it was because they called my best friend by the name of a chemical he used in the chemistry experiment he did for talent show.
To tell you the truth, I was happy to be different. That I was a "nerd" or "geek" was less important to me than the knowledge that I was being recognized for my interests and for my intelligence. As unfortunate as it was that my interests weren't considered particularly cool, they still made me an individual who stood out from all of the conformity.
I think of my nerdhood as an ideal filtering system.
'Geek' has become an almost positive term: smart, rich (silicon valley types), if on the dorky side. 'Nerd' is still almost wholly negative.
/. several years back a comment on the distinction between geek and nerd, and I remember that the difference in meaning was much less clear then than it is now.
I think the interesting question is, how did things turn out this way? It seems to be a very recent distinction: I remember posting (anonymously) on
It seems that it could have gone either way: we needed a term with a positive connotation and a term with a negative connotation, so people just made an arbitrary choice.
Rob, do I feel a poll coming out of this?
Washington, DC: It's like Hollywood for ugly people.
My school (I just turned 16) has a severe lack of competent individuals. We witness alot of issues that we smirk at like the submission propaganda posted around our school, administrators telling us to pick up our garbage even though we weren't finished eating our food and if any geek were to show violent behavior, it would be grounds for mental probing. Okay i'm getting off-topic, but what I'm trying to add here is that, if you really want to call the new brand of intellectuals geeks then I suppose the end result would be the mutatation of the word "geek" or "nerd."
A decade ago I bet you could tell a geek from a non-geek just by looking at the individual, its not so apparent anymore.
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This is Sh*t and we all know it. It use to be Nerds and geeks were the same thing, now its fashionable to be a Nerd or a Geek so we have, but we have football geeks, car geeks, record geeks, shopping geeks and my favorite hair/makeup geeks. What use to be a Computer nerd is now a dweeb or dork, nothing has changed. The beautiful people have just taken the words over.
nerd n.
1. [mainstream slang] Pejorative applied to anyone with an above-average IQ and
few gifts at small talk and ordinary social rituals. 2. [jargon] Term of praise applied
(in conscious ironic reference to sense 1) to someone who knows what's really
important and interesting and doesn't care to be distracted by trivial chatter and silly
status games. Compare the two senses of computer geek.
The word itself appears to derive from the lines "And then, just to show them, I'll
sail to Ka-Troo / And Bring Back an It-Kutch, a Preep and a Proo, / A Nerkle, a
Nerd, and a Seersucker, too!" in the Dr. Seuss book "If I Ran the Zoo" (1950).
(The spellings `nurd' and `gnurd' also used to be current at MIT.) How it developed
its mainstream meaning is unclear, but sense 1 seems to have entered mass culture
in the early 1970s (there are reports that in the mid-1960s it meant roughly
"annoying misfit" without the connotation of intelligence).
An IEEE Spectrum article (4/95, page 16) once derived `nerd' in its variant form
`knurd' from the word `drunk' backwards, but this bears all the hallmarks of a
bogus folk etymology.
Hackers developed sense 2 in self-defense perhaps ten years later, and some actually
wear "Nerd Pride" buttons, only half as a joke. At MIT one can find not only
buttons but (what else?) pocket protectors bearing the slogan and the MIT seal.
computer geek n.
1. One who eats (computer) bugs for a living. One who fulfills all the dreariest
negative stereotypes about hackers: an asocial, malodorous, pasty-faced
monomaniac with all the personality of a cheese grater. Cannot be used by outsiders
without implied insult to all hackers; compare black-on-black vs. white-on-black
usage of `nigger'. A computer geek may be either a fundamentally clueless
individual or a proto-hacker in larval stage. Also called `turbo nerd', `turbo geek'.
See also propeller head, clustergeeking, geek out, wannabee, terminal junkie,
spod, weenie. 2. Some self-described computer geeks use this term in a positive
sense and protest sense 1 (this seems to have been a post-1990 development). For
one such argument, see http://samsara.circus.com/~omni/geek.html. See also geek
code.
This topic is so controversial I'm surprised there's not a poll to go with it.
:)
In fact, I think that there should be a poll, as all good geeks/nerds know that the only way to prove their point of view is right is to win in a slashdot poll. As Homer said, "The winner will be showered with gifts, and the loser will be booed until my throat is sore."
I'm giving it a day before the time-honoured "Which do you prefer, geek or nerd?" poll comes up... anyone care to see if they can pick it more accurately?
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
When Nerd is mentioned, I keep thinking of the guys that are dressed in "Revenge of the Nerds". The horn rim glasses, collared shirt, pocket protector and suspenders to complete the picture. Nerds tend to be people that haven't established themselves - positively that is- in social class. As far as geeks goes, the people who do call themselves "geeks" tend to be a little more in sync with society more so than nerds. If you notice, the ones who are quite computer literate and with the groove of style seem prefer geek over nerd.
But both classes have similarities, such as intrests in computers, but nerds just tend to be obsessed with technology like a hobby and you don't really see them going anywhere with it. It fits well with "News for Nerds" doesn't it? We've got the news, we're interested in this sort of stuff, but for most of us, this stuff is like a hobby.
The geeks have now inherited the earth and have all the jobs while then erds are still down in the basement and tinkering with their computers. (Geeks seem prefer to be having fun, socializing and making money.)
~~~NO CARRIER~~~
I just commented to a friend (Hi Chad!) a couple of days ago that /. has to change their slogan, because I don't feel like a nerd. As many people've said (and the article said), nerd has a more negative connotation associated with it. I certainly think of the typical glasses-with-tape-wearing, pocket-protecting, slide-ruling, socially-inepting, pizza-facing guy when I think of nerd.
A geek, on the other hand, knows what they're doing, can carry on a conversation outside of computers, and knows what the best beer in town is (Hermann's, yeah!).
My non-computer friends keep trying to insult me by calling me a geek. I always thank them. If they start calling me a nerd, however...
Lost Carrier
Lost Carrier
http://www.geekboys.org
Does it matter? I mean.. c'mon -- a rose is a rose by any other name.
We're the ones with the power, and that is what counts.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
Do you think I can wire up a bunch of geeks and nerds together and run an awesome Beowulf on 'em?
(Has linux been ported to nerds yet, or does it still only run on geeks?)
In the wonderful book "Microserfs", author Douglas Coupland touches on this subject severel times. I won't try to recreate his words -- you should go read it yourselves -- but one thing I remember is the idea of 'Geek' as beeing a term which implies 'hireability'.
On a side note, the Danish translator of 'Microserfs' had a rough time because the translation of 'Geek' and 'Nerd' to danish is not injective -- we have only one word (that I know of) for this, namely 'nørd'. Wonder if other languages have more/few alternatives than the two english ones.
It depends entirely on the age group. To a taunting third grader, a geek/nerd aren't at all different. But to an educated grown-up(me?), a geek is a derogatory term used by those 3rd-grade taunters turned adults who haven't bothered to learn things technical/useful whereas a nerd is adept in things requiring brains, and so makes said stupid-taunter-people jealous.
Malaprops aside, imho, (you all know what it means, i don't need to YELL IT) a geek is smart, yet socially inept. Quite able to code, build rockets, visualize space-time like none other, yet one who would posts comments such as this at 1:00 AM.
A nerd can have less actual ability than a geek, but the nerd has social skills, so those abilities are often more useful than the geek's. A nerd wouldn't waste his time writing something as valuable and important as this. So a nerd is perhaps the more noble nomenclature, yet a geek can pride him/herself on possessing such a superior intellect that normal social contexts just don't apply.
Yeah, how long until we start oppressing all the ones who dont have the power? Looks like a restructuring of society here.
/. post.) But now that we are in charge, lets try not to make the mistakes people of power have done in the past. Oh, wait.. too late for that, we already are.
Its getting to be the mythological "future," with robotic dogs for pets and new groundbreaking technology on a daily basis. The geeks finally have a loud voice. But that means its more difficult for the average person to recieve that status. I'm pretty sure most people dont have a computer, or access to a computer that is feasable (i'm not loading any stat programs for a
How long until the "peasants rebellion?"
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no
For some odd reason this has always been the way I always thought... Both are into technology, and both seem out of place in the social world. Nerds relize this but can't seem to do anything about it, no matter how hard they try. Geeks relize this also, but for some reason, they like it that way.
Remember Melvin in "War Games"? He was hilarious. By your definition, he's definately a nerd. Annoying as hell. Fit the stereotype of the day perfectly. Oh my god, that guy made me laugh soooo hard...
For the most part, I consider the two to be interchangable, but I'm more partial to nerd because in high-school we half-way tounge-in-cheek used "nrrrd" and "riot nrrrd" (as in "riot grrrl") as a term to describe a nerd(/geek) who's (at least semi-)punk and anarchosocialist. In addition to being a prime opportunity to replace the "ur" sound with "rrr", it seemed, at least at the time, that a nerd could more probably be into math as well as language, polisci, photography, literature, philosophy, etc., than a geek. Mostly just an excuse to be tounge-in-cheek militant, tho (think "NRRRD" arm bands) :).
geeks and nerds are of the same aptitude, the only difference being that geeks are subtle about it and nerds want to rub it in peoples faces and are artificially high on themselves.
Frank Zappa was a geek and Miles Davis was a nerd.
-sometimes the majority only means that all the fools are on the same side
The word Christian means litterally "little christ" and was first used in Antioch around 40AD.
The Greeks used it derisively, shouting it as they put the followers of Christ to death. It did not take long though, that it became adopted, and has been used ever since. It happened the same time they adopted the Chi Rho symbol.
I don't respect your opinions, but I respect your right to hold them
In my mind there is a very clear distinction. A geek is a general term for the inteligent (usually refering to getting along well with technical devices.) All nerds are geeks, but they are the classic stereotype w/ glasses, out of style clothes (no intention to infer that they were ever in style), similar friends, little social interaction, the near bottom of the social ranking system.
Always preferred the word 'spod' when referring to techie types like our good selves. Allegedly from a Yorkshire word meaning 'workaholic', it now applies to your average spend-too-much-time-on-computer people, and manages to convey a positive side. (It's also a verb). New definition: someone who knows what the word 'spod' means. And everyone's happy with recursion.
The following commentary is presented in Dolby Surround Stereotyping:
I'd say a nerd is someone who doesn't break the rules, doesn't take chances, is smart and studious, and doesn't have a lot of crazy fun. Even when a nerd is having leisure time with fellow nerds, they tend to do things like play Spriograph or practice their Latin conjugations.
A geek is someone weird, usually obsessive about something (not necc. computers; one can be a Dungeons and Dragons geek, etc). However, geeks are much more likely to break rules or even have wild fun with their fellow geeks (stealing a drum of ethyl alcohol from the chem lab, exploring their university's tunnel system) Geeks don't have to be smart.
Also, nerds tend to be quiet about their social status while geeks tend to shamelessly flaunt it. A nerd would wear a plain white button-down shirt, a geek would wear a 2600 t-shirt.
A nerd would spend their lunch period reading ahead in a textbook. A geek would be out in the parking lot playing with thermite.
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Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
Nerds are people that love technology, Geeks are people that know what to do with it. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are Nerds. Linux Torvalds and Jean-Louis Gassee are Geeks. Biiiiiig difference!
I prefer Nerd over Geek. I really despise the fact that Geek has become a chic word. Geek still means to me a circus freak who bites the head off chickens. I believe Geek became more popular when someone came up with "Geek Code" which could have just as easily been called "Nerd Code" -- but alas Nerds everywhere were then forced to declare their "geek code" in order to be understood by Nerds & 'Geeks' everywhere.
Thus, it caught on due to mass leverage.
To me, neither geek nor nerd are derogatory, but they differ in meaning, since I readily consider myself both...
A nerd refers to one who is highly adept and passionate about something, or many things. Like "Computer Nerd" is someone really into computers. However, a geek doesn't refer at all to the same thing, but more to social ability (or lack thereof). So, as a nerd and a geek, I'm very passionate and skilled in what I do, yet very inept socially.
That's what I get from the words.
Man's unique agony as a species consists in his perpetual conflict between the desire to stand out and the need to blend in.
72656B636148206C72655020726568746F6E41207473754A
How well said.
Slashdot's motto ('News for nerds..'), however, gives me an impression that most people reading News for Nerds are not geeks ;-).
God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ --1Thes5:9
So, the geek that's a nerd is not a geek at the same time?
-- Abigail
http://www.gateway.com/help/glossary/glossary_n.sh tml
I'm proud to be a Geek, but I take serious offence at being described as a nerd... Geek, to me, is more a term of respect - someone who has a deep interest in a subject or two (I'm a geek of computers, and a geek of art, BTW). Nerd always seems to be more a term of disrespect, rarely used in a flattering way. It's all a question of personal terminology...
For the past couple of years I have been going with:
--Geeks apply knowledge/ make money with it.
--Nerds are just learning.
That is not to say that Geeks are smarter than Nerds, though. I have gone with this as a way to differentiate the work-force vs. school-based techies among my friends. A Nerd can become a Geek by getting a job, or some other real-world application. A Geek would have to leave work and return to Academia to become a Nerd.
That's my angle on it.
Yeah i got an example of turning a negative into a positive, its a Dutch word though :)...When the Spanish occupied Holland, there was a resistance group. The Spanish called them "Geuzen", which was supposed to be offensive, that resistance group began to use that word as a sort of power word, actually calling themselves "Geuzen" ( or "water-geuzen", which is a diferent story all together :)... To this day its still an expression in Dutch: a "Geuzen naam" is a name which was originally used to make fun of someone, but that person turned the word into a positive thing... Prins Olivier
-Geek, on the other hand, has its roots in a now-obsolete Dutch word, "geck," which meant "fool."- Well, I am dutch, and I'd like to point out the the 'obsolete' word "geck" still is beeing used, it's jussed spelled differend. Nowadays we spell "gek" witch has many different meaning witch all depend on the context it's used in. But it's most accurate translation would be "Crazy" ..........Just in case you where interested......
Friends call me more appropriately:
-- Abigail
I'm a GNURD
... 10am and bored already
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Geeks are smart and wise from _experience_. Nerds know only what they've read and seem to lack common-sense.
My personal definition in the Geek vs Nerd nomenclature argument comes from http://www.circus.com/~omni/geek.html
I'm also fond of the ideas represented in the Geek Code. Geeks come in all shapes and sizes, both physically and mentally. Most people I know who I don't consider to be geek/nerds use the term Geek as a form of respect, in a "so that's what you people call yourselves..." manner.
just my 37.52 Lira... (last I checked, US $0.02)
(insert witty quote here)
Has it occured to anybody that this might be a regional thing? In Oregon, a nerd is smart enough to be intimidating to his/her peers, and a geek is just disliked by his/her peers.
At MIT one can find not only buttons but (what else?) pocket protectors bearing the slogan and the MIT seal.
What is a pocket protector?
So nobody seems to agree on the definitions of the words, but there are only a few different stereotypes:
/. while I should be working to become a habit...)
1. The classical derogatory meaning of both words: A person who is an outsider because of limited social skills (sometimes noticeable in dress), and because:
a) he is interested in only one subject (e.g. computers) and is unable to talk about anything else...
b) he is interested in or good at many strange 'intellectual' things that others aren't interested in/aren't good at (people who build their own computer _and_ speak Latin fluently...)
c) because he behaves as if he was more intelligent than others
d) other
2a), 2b) Same as 1), but without the derogatory conotation, used as a compliment.
However, it still implies a certain social inability - the positive sides of 1a) and 1b) are considered more important.
3a), 3b) Same as 2), but the social inability is not as strong: The person of type 3 may not adhere to general standards in society, but he may get on quite well socially with other people of categories 2 and 3.
I'm sure something is missing in these categories, please point it out.
If we had a complete list of categories, the rest of the discussion would become much easier (i.e. some people think of geeks as 3b and nerds as 2a, some do it the other way round).
(Sorry for posting A.C., I don't want an account because I don't want posting to
Back in my youth, when if you used the word computer, people thought you were pronouncing "commuter" wrongly, the word nurd meant a ridiculously stupid person, somewhere between a dunce and an arsehole. It seems its meaning has taken an 180 degree turn since, and that makes me chuckle (depending on who uses it). ... "YOU PACK OF NURDS", for example, is a great way of venting your feelings.
OBTW: nurd is much more effective in the plural
Adam:What kept you?
God:Rome wasn't built in a day
borg% webster geek
geek \'ge-k\ n [prob. fr. E dial. geek, geck fool, fr. LG geck, fr. MLG] :
a carnival performer often billed as a wild man whose act usu. includes
biting the head off a live chicken or snake.
borg%
Umm... I'm trying to figure out how this came to be associated with computers...
I had a math teacher back in High School who used to call his students "nerds" whenever they made a dumb mistake on a math problem. From there I got the impression that a "nerd" was one of those socially-challenged people who really didn't know what they were talking about, and that geeks were just odd/eccentric people who DID know what they were talking about. Oh the memories of Mr. Rihard's geometry class... "What are you, a freshman? Now look at that, another one of those Freshman Nerds. Geez."
the real at&t mix
There's power in co-opting a negatively-tainted word and turning it into a positive word. Queer and Nigger are both words that are, in the appropriate peer group, used as power words.
I think geek is a stronger word than nerd. So, with this in mind, a definition of geek could be someone who realizes that they are uncool or unfashionable (by some popular prevailing notion of coolness or fashion) -- and who doesn't really care, and decides not to invest the enormous amounts of time and energy that normal people do in being fashionable, because he/she has more important things to do. Hence the co-option of the harsher word geek.
But what is a non nerd/geek called? I like the word hipster or urban hipster, because, like nerd/geek, is vaguely insulting.
A geek is a person who is inordinately dedicated to and involved with technology to the point of sometimes not appearing to be normal. Being a geek also implies a capability with the technology. A nerd is a technically bright but socially INEPT person (but Bill Gates is still a nerd!).
[Check whatis.com for more info]
Norbert de Jonge
http://gtkgo.netpedia.net
Nerds are Boomers. Geeks are Gen X. I read User Friendly. However, most of the rest of the site is beyond me, different generation.
Geek, on the other hand, has its roots in a now-obsolete Dutch word, "geck," which meant "fool."
There is nothing obsolete about the Dutch word "gek", it's just spelled without a c nowadays. I use it every day. It's meaning is closer to "insane" than "fool", because it can apply to objects or situations as well as people.
-----
The first time I really found a description I could identify with was in the "Portrait of J Random Hacker" in the Jargon File. Hence, if I'm forced to pigeonhole myself, that's the term I tend to use.
Besides, "norms" tend to look down on both geeks and nerds, whereas the mass media has whipped up a nice amount of fear around the word "hacker", even if they don't have a clue what the original definition was. I'd rather people were nervous than condescending any day.
Tim.
I always thought the difference between a geek and a nerd is that a nerd wants to port linux to a commodore 64 and a geek wants to get his hands on a SGI Reality center. :) Or to put in another way, geeks will want and understand all the hi-tech buzzwords but a nerd wants to know everything about a system- even though it's not so fancy, the nerd has almost total knowledge about how everything works.
---
"We're geeks, and you'll pay us to talk over your head!"
*g*
Inspired by being paid $75 an hour to grovel through a guy's web pages explaining, experimenting and going "Well. That's interesting. The reason that didn't work is because..." (though actually we spent 3 hours at it and I only billed for the one we originally planned on)
Right here at our school ( I am an IT student) we are proud to be mentioned as nerds. The fact is, that only a few of the best students are called nurds. And not in a negative way!
;-)) )
Being good with IT is no longer (looked at as )a thing for the social disordered, but it's a general acepted thing.
(But we are a strange country afcourse
Greetings form holland
Da heip
P.S. nurd == geek over here
It sound as swedish as any other swedish word, almost to the extent that one can understand it just from the way the word sounds. (You know when you make up a word and someone else immediatly "feels" what it means, that sort of thing).
Geek doesn't work nearly as well. Nothing but a weird sound. And it would be spelled "gik". Too silly.
"Open Source. Closed Minds. We are Slashdot."
I don't care what you call me, just don't call me late for dinner!
Dive Gear
--- Think of it as evolution in action ---
A nerd is hopelessly focused on one thing, to the exception of pretty much all else. You can be a computer nerd, an RPG nerd, a chemistry nerd, or even a politics nerd. But the implication is that you are wearing blinders to the rest of the world.
Whereas a geek may be equally adept at the same thing as the nerd, but the geek has a broader worldview. The geek goes out on Saturday night, reads the newspaper to see what's going on in the world, and has other hobbies and other areas of interest.
Geeks are friends with non-geeks, too. Nerds just tend to be friends with other nerds.
Geeks date and get married. Nerds are frightened to - though some get over it. In general geeks are more socially aware.
People can have tendencies in both directions - it's not entirely a "either/or" situation. But, for the most part, geeks realize the existence of shades of gray. nerds are more binary in nature. Ask a geek to turn on the light, and they will turn on the nearest or the brightest light - making a judgement as to which one you want. if they aren't sure, they'll ask you which one you meant. Ask a nerd to turn on a light without explicitly specifying which one, and you run a risk of being ignored completely.
Geeks usually know that they're geeks. Most like it that way. Nerds usually don't realize that they are nerds. Those who do have enough self-awareness that they may eventually become geeks.
Geeks use higher-level languages than nerds - geeks hack Perl, write shell scripts, and the nerdier ones do Java. Nerds start with Java as a HLL, and work down to assembler.
When I was growing up a couple of decades ago the two were equally negative, but "geek" referred to personality and "nerd" usually strictly referred to someone technologically obsessed. The terms have obviously changed over the years. Now, even though I see nerd as a less positive term than geek - neither is really much of an insult anymore outside the third grade.
But all in all, geeks and nerds combined rule the world today - and it's good to be the king!
- -Josh Turiel
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
However, in common with all good things, the media have taken the two definitions and swapped them over, so now if you're a nerd, you have no social life.
I think it's less common (but a growing trend) in England to proclaim and be proud of your geekdom (using the media definition of the word :) - I certainly am, and I know other people who are (gotta get me one of them geekpride t's from copyleft :)
(In Microserfs, Geek is defined as a kind of cross between both of above, but they define nerd as a wannabe-geek - l33t 5cr1pt | Incidentally, I've noticed that the incidence of geekdom amongst Christian scientists (as in, scientists who are Christians) is much higher than in the general populous. Apropos of nothing, but has anyone else noticed this?
-- I reserve the right to be completely wrong --
I read once a short novel of R.A. Lafferty, which was about a genius boy, socially disadapted and a little 'out of focus' ( a nerd? ), which built a robot which resebled him, but was also socially a success ( a robo-geek? ). But then the boy got jaelous of the robot ... ...
... :-} )
Pity I can't remember the title
Anyway, I am latin while 'nerd' and 'geek' and anglo words, so I'm not qualified to speak.
BTW : I am a programmer, and I consider what I do as mindcraft : same as handycraft, but using mind instead of hands ( well, fingers too
Ciao
----
FB
Should it be: Slashdot:News for Nerds or Slashdot:News for Geeks
Nerds post first and think second ; Geeks think first and post second
--
Exigo spamos et dona ferentes
Hmm, "geeks can be nerds, but nerds can't be geeks"....
class Nerd : public HomoSapiens {
public:
virtual void hack();
virtual void drink(Cup& c);
protected:
double m_caffeine;
}
class Geek : public Nerd {
public:
virtual void act_socially(const HomoSapiens& other);
}
In any case, that's pretty much my definition. :). Sorry - too much C++ on my mind.
For example... say the person you are talking to is non computer literate...
A nerd: "I bought a really cool monitor for my computer last week!"
A geek: "I bought a great SVGA device that can run at 100Hz horizontally and 80 Hz vertically and can do 16 million colours, although I set it into 24 bit colour mode."
...and proud of it!
As a member of all these groups (and a goth too), I think it's striking how similar the experience of being stereotyped is in each case.
Data point: "nerd" carries much stronger associations of "poorly dressed, socially and sexually inept" than "geek" for me too.
--
Xenu loves you!
Well, the big difference is that it's against the law to be a geek in Georgia, or rather, to put on a geek show. This law arose out of an incident in a traveling circus early in the early 1900's. A 12 year old girl got rabies from her dog. She was supposedly "raised by wolves" and part of the show had her engage in sex with a large dog, her pet actually. A side effect of this was that England banned the importation of dog semen. Be careful what you try to sneak through customs there.
To my mind this means you can't do geek stuff for money, but it would be OK in the privacy of your own home. In other words, Linux = good, Microsoft = bad.
I had heard it explained as:
A nerd is someone whose life revolves around computers and technology.
A geek is someone whose life revolves around computers and technology, and they like it.
If you read the article, a full etymology is there, but for those of you too lazy to click the link, here it is...
The words "geek" and "nerd" have been floating around for decades and have morphed well beyond their original meanings. Here's a brief history lesson:
Of the two terms, "nerd" is the newest. Experts guess its etymology probably dates back to a 1950 work by Dr. Seuss, "If I Ran the Zoo." A passage from the book goes, "I'll sail to Ka-Troo and bring back an It-Kutch, a Preep and a Proo, a Nerkle, a Nerd and a Seersucker, too!" Soon after the book came out, "nerd" started turning up in conversation. In the '60s, it was usually used in reference to your basic square. During the '70s, it came to carry the intelligent-but-socially-inept meaning that persists today.
Geek, on the other hand, has its roots in a now-obsolete Dutch word, "geck," which meant "fool." By most accounts, the word "geek" came into common usage around the turn of the century to refer to a peculiar or eccentric -- but really smart -- person. In the late '20s, it was also used to describe a carnival performer with a repertoire of disgusting tricks such as biting off chicken heads. The original definition has prevailed.
If I could only live my life with my threshold at 4...
I'm surprised no one noticed this yet but copyleft has shirts that say geek and geek pride but none dawning the name nerd.
I personally prefer the name geek over nerd because to me it just sounds better. I think this is because of the subconscious connotations I have with similar sounding words.
nerd--turd, curd, purred, lurred, heard, bird, etc.
Geek--sleak, sheik, peak, speak, creek, etc.
not exactly like those are good example but you get my point.
or maybe not...
Joseph
Nerd or not, I gotta get me some of that ass. Those statues are tiiight!
IMHO, geek is an intelligent non conformist, while nerd is a possibly smart conformist
-- d'arcy poirot
Nerds are just geeks in denial!
Why do feel like that in a year or two they'll be GAP commercials where iterchangeable people will be running around in jeans and untucked t-shirts, Palm IX's in hand, to the tune of bland industrial music?
Come on people. These identity debates are fun, but realize this is nothing but marketting. The same people who scorned us because we don't give a flying fuck about their social games and status symbols are now trying to cash in on our new-found power in the current economy.
If you think it's now cool to be a geek, you don't get it. You're letting other people have power in how you define yourself.
Nerds rule, they even have a candy named after them...where's you candy geeks?
~Jay (Negative Seven)
I always felt geeks were just highly paid nerds.
You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
Whether I'm a `geek', `nerd' or none, depends hugely on who asks. If a person from school asks if I'm a `computer nerd' (and thus clearly means a person with glasses, spending 18 hours a day in front of his computer and having no social life), I say no. But if a Slashdotter asks, I'd be more likely to say yes. And if a UFie asks if I'm a `geek' (User Friendly generally doesn't use the word `nerd'), I definitely am. So, it all depends :-)
/* Steinar */
(This comment is of course GPLed.)
Of course some might say that 'News for Geeks. Stuff that matters' doesn't sound right to them, but perhaps in this new age of enlightenment, we should cast aside this petty quibbles, stand up and be proud to be geeks.
Geeks
Nerds
we're geeks, we're freaks, and bored of us in a week.
Nerds are the people who consider themselves geeks.
The two terms Nerd and Geek are interchangeable. They both can be used to describe a sheltered niave ugly spotty unfashionable boring single virgin.
Slashdot. News for sysadmins, stuff that's American.
Except, this debate is the more interesting one we've had in a while.
--Nerd.
I've always looked at it as Geeks can often "fit" in to regular society but have nerd like skeletons in their closet. Geeks are still likely to "get some". A nerd on the other hand is so focused on one or two things (Like computers or StarWars action figures etc...) that so consume their lives that they have little or no chance/time to "get some". Although I feel that nerd is a negative term simply because it implys total social outcast, most nerds I know are so consumed with their one or two things that they hardly notice and obviously isnt important to them. Geeks on the other hand are more likely to congregate and form groups even if social outcasts from the mainstream. They still have social groups of their own.
I read this quote. I apply it to my everyday life cuz the later applies to me: "A nerd is someone whose life revolves around the computer. A geek is someone whose life revolves around the computer and likes it."
Geek, on the other hand, is a cool word, and I proudly label myself one. It lends itself to all sorts of interesting forms:
- geek out
- true geek
- geek central
One of the few places it doesn't fit is in the zenlike construct "hacker nature". "geek nature" just doesn't work for me (hence, "true geek").Of course, I come from Worcester Polytechnic Institute, the home of the word "gweep". But since that word was pretty much seized by a group of guys that called themselves GweepCo, it just never really stuck to think of yourself as a gweep unless you were part of that crew. And I'll bet a nickel that there's at least a handful of GweepCo reading right now that are gonna yell at me.
www.HearMySoulSpeak.com
Nerds are also social misfits, and may or may not be geek-like in intelligence - the significant difference is that nerds usually have the inability to fit into any social groups - even groups of geeks.
Just my opinion, of course.
In the Netherlands, like anywhere else, you'll find differing opinions on this.
IMO, I could live with geek. Nerd I don't like. For me, it implies too much interests ONLY in computers (or something similiar, and generally 'dull' (No, I am WELL aware computers aren't dull)). Me, I have plenty interests, 95% of them crazy ones.
I cannot tell the difference between geek and nerd. Like the funny guy portrait in his movie, Woody care nothing but sex and death. I think one of the two would involve in fscking the computer till death.
Non-English speaking hardhead.
I abhore the use of "nerd" and "geek" and prefer terms such as "techie", "coder" & "hacker" (when used in the correct sense).
You cannot take away the derogaratary sense that these words entail.
just my opinion
How about someone just looking in a dictionary rather than debating it all bleedin day?? nerd also nurd (nûrd). n. Slang 1.A person regarded as stupid, inept, or unattractive. 2.A person who is single-minded or accomplished in scientific pursuits but is felt to be socially inept. nerdy adj. Word History: The word nerd and a nerd, undefined but illustrated, first appeared in 1950 in Dr. Seuss's If I Ran the Zoo: "And then, just to show them, I'll sail to Ka-Troo And Bring Back an It-Kutch a Preep and a Proo a Nerkle a Nerd and a Seersucker, too!" (The nerd itself is a small humanoid creature looking comically angry, like a thin, cross Chester A. Arthur.) Nerd next appears, with a gloss, in the February 10, 1957, issue of the Glasgow, Scotland, Sunday Mail in a regular column entitled "ABC for SQUARES": "Nerda square, any explanation needed?" Many of the terms defined in this "ABC" are unmistakable Americanisms, such as hep, ick, and jazzy, as is the gloss "square," the current meaning of nerd. The third appearance of nerd in print is back in the United States in 1970 in Current Slang: "Nurd [sic], someone with objectionable habits or traits. . .. An uninteresting person, a 'dud.'" Authorities disagree on whether the two nerdsDr. Seuss's small creature and the teenage slang term in the Glasgow Sunday Mailare the same word. Some experts claim there is no semantic connection and the identity of the words is fortuitous. Others maintain that Dr. Seuss is the true originator of nerd and that the word nerd ("comically unpleasant creature") was picked up by the five- and six-year-olds of 1950 and passed on to their older siblings, who by 1957, as teenagers, had restricted and specified the meaning to the most comically obnoxious creature of their own class, a "square." now geek ======== geek (gk) n. Slang 1.An odd or ridiculous person. 2.A carnival performer whose show consists of bizarre acts, such as biting the head off a live chicken. geek n : a person with an unusual or odd personality [syn: eccentric, eccentric person, oddball] So geek has fuck all to do with computers. can we end this stupid debate?
Even the people who are making a disinction between the two in response to this are not coming to the same conclusions. All we can conclude is that these few that feel there is a difference don't like one of them because thats what people called them when they were young :).
When I was growing up in those pre-IBM PC days both words were a nasty insult used by those who could only measure their own worth by trying to destroy or demean others. I cring when I see others call themselves geeks or nerds because, to me, it means the assholes have won. :(
I guess there is a generational divide even among those of us with the hacker (classic meaning) mentality. To call oneself a geek or a nerd except as a broad joke, is a sure sign of a luser or a hip-wannabee to those of my generation.
I guess if it makes you happy to call yourself either of these two words, more power to you, but please understand that some of us despise those words with a passion.
"All the darkness in the world can not quench the light of one small candle."
*looks down*
Hmm, the 2600 Michelangelo shirt. Guess that seals it for me.
Funny, I now feel a sudden urge to mix thermite and some random pieces of discarded equipment.
Cool.
definitely im not a nerd.. i talk to real people aside from my pc.. but i was so preoocupied with computers that every waking moment i stayed in our computer lab... and i forgot about girls.. i didnt had a gf in coll nor hs. just like archimedes... he was killed just bcoz he didnt hear the roman soldiers questioning being so preoccupied w/ geometry and stuff. i consider my lovelife as dead too :(. im dead. im dead. im dead. :(((((( was it my fault to be a geek? *cries* -kerb
The word "geek" has been around a long time. It seems to me to mean someone who is (at least slightly) crazy and will do almost anything for shock value to others. A geek is a revolting person. They have intent to make others uncomfortable, to "gross them out".
I first heard the term "nerd" in the late sixties. In my opinion, it basically means a "bookworm", someone who spends so much time trying to learn everything that they become slightly wierd to others. A nerd seems to me to be a person who does somewhat strange things because they don't focus on the social norms. Unlike a geek, a nerd is not purposely trying to be goofy, it just happens because they really don't know how to act.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Also, a more defining characteristic is that a nerd is a boring, think-inside-the-box person, while a geek is weird and think-differentish.
--
Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
I'm not even sure how many computers thereare in my house . . . But I'm pretty sure that I have more computers than kids (Yes, I know how many kids I have (4), their names, their birthdays, and it's my wife who can't remember our aniversery).
Lesssee, there's eyry, the K6, temporarily commandeered by the kids (who will be using FreeBSD, not windows, to face the internet with the cable modem installed in their room yesterday); there's Milton, the powerbook 180 that's in pieces and will never run again; a pair of 486's, one of which will work again once I get a new drive; wanderer, a backlit macportable; my old tandy 102; my 486 thinkpad, and the parts for Mercury, my homebrew from, hmm, over 20 years ago. I think that's all of them,but I'm not sure anymore. Plus there's my Mac Classic in california, and my old 128k mac that my brother expanded but never gave back, and 3 apple II's waiting for me to pick up in california (they're only e's, though, not original or even plus).
Ooops, scratch one of the 486's as an independent computer; it got subsumed into eyry for its copy of windows for the kids software (yes, its broken hard drive is physically mounted in eyry).
Hmm, how many is that'i lost count . . .
I've debated this topic with many a person, and it's suprising how violently people agree or disagree with any such definition. I think it possibly stems from some geeks calling themselves nerds and vice versa. Geeks bite the heads of chickens in front of onlookers. I carry this over to say that geeks are someone who do weird things mainly for the social aspect of it (attention). Geeks won't do something regarding computers, unless they have someone to show it to, or talk about it with. To carry the analogy, Nerds would bite a head off of a chicken without an audience. Or rather, would sit all day working on a pet project, and never feel the need to tell anyone about, just happy in their sense of accomplishment... This seems to fit pretty well with the geeks = more socially attuned, nerds = less so trend I've been seeing in the posts... 101010.org The Simplest Answer
The word Christian means litterally "little christ" and was first used in Antioch around 40AD.
"Litterally"? Anyway, which language you are talking about? I doubt the Antioch Greeks in 40 AD spoke English, in which 'ian' is a widespread suffix having nothing to do with "little" -- e.g. Italian, Armenian, Russian, etc.
Kaa
Kaa
Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
I'm in the geek-is-a-genius-and-has-social-skills camp. I interact with nerds daily and much prefer them to the neophytes and common folk, yet always feel I'm only amoung my brothers and sisters when I'm with people who can geek-speak and "fit in" with normal people.
Geek - someone who knows they are a geek
Nerd - someone who thinks they are cool but denying to be a geek
It's cool to be a geek, but not cool to be a nerd.
It is the same as with the word nigga. If you calls someone _hey you, nigger!_ that is very insulting - but _how's it going nigga?_ is a perfectly acceptable salutation. Same goes for geeks and nerds - I myself have been known to refer disparagingly to people as nerds or geeks, despite being one myself to many people. It is all a question of attitude and emphasis that determines whether someone is being insulting or not.
" There is a rational explanation for everything. There is also an irrational one. "
Whereas a nerd honestly has no clue that they're a little off kilter - or even worse, think that they are the sh*t :) They're generally more one-dimensional than a geek.
Let's add another one - "dork"... I see a dork as equivalent to a geek, minus the tendency towards technology.
I think what sets a geek and a nerd apart is confidence. While the nerd may be sharp as a tack, he/she is usually socially inept and is very uncomfortable about it. The geek on the other hand, has matured to the point that he/she has a bit of social skill, has no interest in the whims of the latest "fashion", is aware of his/her shortcomings and has long since learned that the people who pass judgement are the last people in society one should be listening to.
~Any apparent grammatical or typographic errors are caused by defects in your display device.
A Geek can only get a date once a year
A Nerd can only get a date in a chatroom
A Dork doesn't realize that that person was interested, possibly even trying to pick him/her up, until three hours later
A Geek obsesses about Star Wars
A Nerd obsesses about Star Trek
A Dork thinks Babylon 5 is better than either one of them
A Geek enjoys Red Dwarf, maybe has some tapes
A Nerd has a Holly screen saver and will do the Rimmer salute in mixed company
A Dork thinks the writing really went downhill after the third season
A Geek listens to They Might Be Giants
A Nerd likes Yes and Rush
A Dork worships The Dismemberment Plan and is willing to drive an hour to see Fugazi
A Geek codes Perl
A Nerd codes assembler
A dork gets paid to sit around with carefully coded software and try every sadistic trick to break it
------- St Crazy Bob (Cannonized by Wholly Ordinance of the SubGenius Church)
I can't *wait* until The Gap changes their marketing strategy and/or all these people with messy hair and horn-rimmed glasses fall off the earth. One or the other will happen, I'm sure of it.
Regarding the 'nerd' vs. 'geek' discussion: What's the difference between the internet and the Super-Information-Highway?
One phrase got pushed.
.c
This seems to be a generational thing. My generation thinks of ourselves as "nerds" and considers "geek" to be an offensive word. The young bucks chasing us all aspire to be "alpha geek".
Geeks and Nerds are indeed very different, I would say. Both are typically characterized by a strong intellectual bent, a tendency to hyperfocus on things they're interested in, and often but not always, a set of interests heavily weighted toward math, science and technical things. There are, however, nerds and geeks in any field you care to name, not just math and computer science.
Nerds mostly only care about the subject(s) they're nerdy in. They generally don't socialize well, don't understand social groups, and take whatever they're nerdy about very seriously--in fact, they tend to take themselves, and really just about everything, more seriously than they ought to. They are often competetive about their fields, and are more likely to get into dicksize wars than geeks are (not that geeks don't do this quite often).
Geeks tend to have more fun. Geeks more often have stronger interests outside their fields of geekery, and don't take things so seriously. Geeks also do socialize, contrary to popular perception. They don't socialize "normally", but they generally get along perfectly well in groups of other geeks (though "normal" people would probably have a great deal of trouble understanding the dynamics of geek social group). Nerds don't usually socialize well even with other nerds. Geeks tend to be less self-conscious, and more willing to weird out the "normals". Some, of course, take this too far.
Geeks are also much more likely to go to Rocky Horror Picture Show showings--in fact, most people who go to RHPS, in my experience, are geeks in some way or other.
There's a longer treatment of this (though it's somewhat in need of updating) at http://gridley.acns.carleton.edu /~madins/geek.html
Pancakes is the better part of valor.
Copy of an email to the author:
Dear Ms. Dyrness,
as someone who's been a techie for longer than some of these kids has been around, I'm glad that you included the histories of the words. I *knew* where geek came from - the carny slang definition, and I despise being referred to as that. My usual response is that Newt Gingrich fits that definition (bearing in mind that he served his first wife with divorce papers while she was in the hospital for chemotherapy), not I.
Recently, though, I realized another reason that these names were applied, and why the folks who run the media are so happy to use 'em: it suggests that we are less than "normal people", and that we have no lives outside of work, so they don't have to feel bad about sticking pagers on us, and putting us on call 24x7x365.25, nor about making us work weekends, nights, etc....
What I'd like to know is when we start hearing about techno-wimps, and mismanagers, and other names for people who know nothing, but feel they can manage *us*.
mark roth-whitworth
I used to be part of the "geek" crowd on this issue.. but I've seen enough people who prefer "nerd" that it's clear that there isn't any consensus to just agree with.
What I think really matters is whether or not someone is proclaiming themselves a geek or a nerd. As soon as you use the word to label yourself, it's clear that it's not carrying severe negative connotations anymore (at least to the proclaimer).
Also, self-proclaimed geeks or nerds calling someone else a geek or a nerd are clearly not trying to use the word as an insult.
Furthermore, someone calling someone else a geek or a nerd who already calls themself that is failing to insult them.
That's just the way I see it, anyway. They only have negative connotations when we let them.
If you are calling yourself Geek or Nerd then in all likely hood you are lost to a truer meaning.
To name a thing is to cntrol a thing. If you allow others to name you , you have given them control of that part of yourself.
Think that is bullshit, look at the media. All "geeks" and "nerd" are controled by those that control the phrases.
There are a million paths to take in a life, why do so many chooe the paths most travelled.
Welcome to the path of the sheeple. Sont worry, the butcher will be to you soon. Bahhhhhh.
"I will choose the path thats clear
I will choose free will"
Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap! Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap! Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap!
I'm in the geek-is-a-genius-and-has-social-skills camp. I interact with nerds daily and much prefer them to the neophytes and common folk, yet always feel I'm only amoung my brothers and sisters when I'm with people who can geek-speak and "fit in" with normal people. BTW: If you read down this far in the chain you might be a nerd. -NoZeCyBer
Nerd's are a great candy from Willy Wonka You are a Geek
I am a Nerd (I'll be 40 in '01). I read voraciously about SciFi from 5th grade on, remember watching Star Trek "live", being astounded at the abilities of Kato (versus Batman), and loving the 21st Century (after Ed Sullivan). My love of discovery drove my actions and activities. If I was unable to grasp the finer points of dressing like everyone else, it was because I didn't have the time. If you can remember the wonder of looking at the Moon differently, working your way through the Krebs cycle (and getting it), or your first infinite loop that you recovered from (because you were ready for the chance), then by my definition you were a nerd.
I don't know when geeks became the term, but I remember punk rockers were the first people I knew that wore chains and studs (and were really the nicest people, they never cared how you danced as long as you did), and polyester was dreaded. Somehow in all of this I missed how we came to be despised, and now even feared (ala Hellmouth). But then maybe it comes down to the fear of looking stupid... And knowing that you're not.
As far as I can tell, geeks are nerds with some social skills added (whether they choose to use them is something altogether different) and are more fun to hang out with; most of the characters in the 80's movie "Real Genius" were geeks. The evil straight laced guy they were against was a nerd.
OK, true enough, the word that we derive the word Christian from (Greek word). It has been about 6 years since I took a Greek class and I don't recall what the word exactly was, but I do remember that is what it meant, and is in fact, how the word came to use.
I don't respect your opinions, but I respect your right to hold them
I never did get around to writing a formal manifesto on that thesis in the subject line, so this looks like as good a time as any to run it up the flagpole. Let's sing it loud and sing it proud: Geek is a Verb.
First, let's dispose of "dweeb" and "nerd." They're not the same thing as "geek." To be a "dweeb" is to have neither social skills nor much of an intellect. And to be a "nerd" means that you have a decent, perhaps even strong intellect, but you still have a deficit of social skills.
Of course, these terms are not always used correctly, either because a) the people who will see the usage understand what's really being said, such as with Slashdot's "News for Nerds" motto, or b) because people don't understand the terms, or can't even accurately assess the criteria they're based on. In high schools across the nation, dweebs are being referred to as nerds, simply because the hoodsies doing the referring can't spot that the dweeb's intellect isn't nerd-level.
But there's a difference when we move over to "geek", because "geek" is not only a noun, it's a verb. "Geek" means "to take a deep intellectual interest that brings you pleasure in some subject." (The noun, of course, means "one who geeks.")
Thus, there are computer geeks, which probably the majority of us here are. There are specialties, such as algorithm geeks and compression geeks and hardware geeks and web geeks and interface geeks and too many other kinds to list. And outside the world of computers, there are of course music geeks and political geeks and biology geeks and history geeks and animation geeks... well, of course, there's as many kinds of geeks as there are subjects to geeks.
To be a geek, it is neither necessary nor sufficient to be an expert. The expert may know the programming language inside and out, and ten others besides, but the geek is the one who looks forward all day to the minute he/she can get to the computer and start writing code. The expert may have acquired their knowledge just because it was profitable; the geek acquired their knowledge because it made them feel alive.
By the same token, it's neither necessary nor sufficient just to be obsessed with a subject. Watching every one of the "Friday the 13th" movies doesn't make you an "Friday the 13th" geek. But if you can articulate how Part VII combined the new notion from Part VI of Jason as a supernatural force, with the introduction of adversaries who were also larger than life, and how this marked a turning point in the series... well, then, you may be a Friday the 13th geek. Not every guy who watches every football game is a football geek, but the guy who knows about the strategies favored by particular coaches and why Denver's home-team advantage is particularly strong probably is.
Why should geek be a verb? Because it is something we do. It is what we choose. Even if we give the noun our own positive spin, it still gets used as an insult, and worse, it gets used as a label. The microcephalic who calls one of us "geek" thinking it means "weird and unliked" is still sending another message: "I limit you. I define you. I have captured your essence inside a syllable." As Walt Whitman might put it, if he tricks us into accepting even the re-defined label of "geek," he prevents us from containing multitudes.
Our response should be to insist that we are what we are, only because it is what we make the choice, over and over, to do. We are powerful when we do what we love and what we do well. Geek is a verb.
I can't claim to have as clearly defined an understanding of the difference between "nerd" and "geek" as several of you appear to, but I'm quite sure that neither of them (according to my relatively feeble comprehension) would be the kind of person who would commit themselves to discussions such as this one.
Seems to me that this sort of semantics issue is about as superficial as eye makeup, and that we're all just one step away from a heated debate over the best iMac color.
Shame on all of you.
-siv ("dufus" for the record)
OK, true enough, the word that we derive the word Christian from (Greek word). It has been about 6 years since I took a Greek class and I don't recall what the word exactly was, but I do remember that is what it meant, and is in fact, how the word came to use.
I've never taken any Greek classes, but I think that the word "Christian" is derived from the word "Christ" (surprise, surprise!). Now, the word "Christ", as far as I recall, is derived from a Greek word meaning "cross".
I still fail to see how "little christ" comes into all this.
Kaa
Kaa
Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
i'm seeing all these references to nerds as guys with thick-ass glasses, bad acne, with a squeaky voice and pocket protectors. although i've run into some people that come a little close, that's it. the most nerdiest(?) nerds i know don't fit the description. do they indeed exist outside of '80's movies and "Family Matters?"
Seems to me that the definitions of "geek" and "nerd" that I've adopted reflect the views of most of the Slashdot community--geeks are smart, social, dabble in many things, whereas nerds are focused irretreivably on one thing.
I know some guys who are kinda like the punk posers on the technology scene. They have cool hair. They wear lots of slick black clothing. Geeks? Perhaps, but they run NT and chew out anyone who considers other OSen. They also focus on computers as tools, not playthings.
Then there's my brother. Fairly skilled with hardware--he could choose good components and build a system in very little time--but he's not terribly social. He wears big window-pane Bill Gates style glasses. Could we safely deem him a "nerd"?
I like to consider myself a geek because it doesn't have the slightly egotistical air of "hacker" or "guru". It even seems a bit deprecating. I'm fairly social (though I can count all my close friends on one hand...)computers are both workstations and playthings for me, and I have a good grasp of how several different operating systems think. However, I have no attention span whatsoever and like to dabble in music, writing, art as well.
Geeks tend to be fairly "deep". Nerds can have much insight, but live their lives fairly oblivious to everything except their fixation.
I'd consider this new "geek" definition that's arising more of a technocratic poser than the friendly, disarming, jack-of-all-trades feeling of "geek". It's just my opinion. Real geeks don't care about slick black clothing or how good they can make themselves look by keeping an NT box up for a day. They're different and they like it.
Just my $.02...
Angry IT woman in big clompy boots. And talking lint!.
Here in New Zealand (Noo Zeeland for you americans) nerd and geek have traditionally had slightly different meanings from their commonly accepted international (or american?) usages.
Nerd: This guy's real smart. He doesn't work very hard at school, but that's because he doesn't NEED to, he already knows it all. He argues with the teacher, and is usually right. Typically non-interactive and non-confrontational due to their minds being on higher things; nerds are tolerated because they don't do any harm, and will probably discover something useful like teflon (created as shielding on space shuttles, but most people use it on frying pans, you get the picture).
Geek: see also:- teacher's pet, nancy boy, try hard. Similar to nerds to the untrained eye, geeks generally achieve similar although slightly lower marks in school. Geek technique depends on doing inordinate amounts of work, in perfect handwriting. Learning is by rote, due to deficiencies in 'talent' and 'clue'. Geeks traditionally participate in a wide range of extra-curricular activities, and win 'personal best' or 'most improved' awards. Geeks tend to attract a cluster of lesser sorts who bludge off the work done by the geek in question. Geeks are shunned by their more socially inclined peers, although geeks can be incessantly cheerful and clingy, and have trouble taking hints (note: there is some intersection between the geek and loser subgroups).
So, you can imagine that running around saying "yay! I'm a geek!" isn't a great plan, not so much becuase geek is derogatory, but because it describes something completely different in this neck of the woods. In the last few years, 'computer geek' has come into more common usage, which is a good thing. It uses geek in the more common internet style.
"It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But the Half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor."
.evom ton seod gis eht
to not offend anyone with these terms. I consider myself a nerd using the smart but doesn't waste time with pointless social actions (I'm not antisocial, I can function fine, I just know that it is not as important) If you think that nerd means that I am antisocial and mutter to myself and avoid eye contact then misunderstandings will arise. I consider geeks to be people who use windoze and mainly play games but don't have much technical knowledge. I think that we all should use these terms interchangeably so that we don't insult our own kind. NERDS AND GEEKS, UNITE!!
I can't believe I missed this article
I was going to post the VERY EXACT SAME THING you just did.
long live geek pride!
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
A geek is someone that has had help having an orgasm, while a nerd has not.
had a chuckle when i read the marketing types are embracing and extending...nerd
Quan says he used to wind-surf with hard-core geeks -- a Porsche-driving, Palm-Piloting crowd that ranged from the technical to the marketing
I even hard a harder chuckle over this one. I didn't like the way this article was slanting - label accumulation, hip happening and all consuming wankers....
while the distinctions of nerds and geeks is in my view fuzzy ('A and not-A' AND NOT 'either A or not-A' - Fuzzy Thinking, Bart Kosko, 078688021X ) where did nerd, geek get the added baggage of consumerism and social air's? Is this someone elses label? To me a nerd/geek or nerd/geek hybrid is just as happy working out how to get unix on a 386 thrown out by the former 'cause it wont show those flashy graphics. One of my loves with coding is, compilers are free, operating systems are free, knowledge can be gained for free, machines are cheap. Nerds/geeks are about understanding and creating not mere image, consumerism and money. This same concept could just as easily be applied to any other kind of nerd/geek discipline.
i guess a nerd's v's geek fest wouldn't be complete without a list of geek/nerd sites to go have a look at. Of them all I like the geek code site... but damn couldn't they have just given out a template so we can have multiple geek codes?
geek code: - http://www.geekcode.com/
nerd test:- http://www.frontiernet.net/~jbennett/nerd/n500tes
geek is a verb, most intelligent '/.' comment so far proving the value of ac's!: - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=99/11/22/1914
Now let me get back to listening to my new CD and writing my code for moola....
peterrenshaw ~ Another Scrappy Startup
At one point I posted a submission to Slashdot about my site: Geekrights.org, and since I heard nothing after a couple weeks I decided I'd find out what it takes to get listed on Slashdot. My intention was not to get Slashdotted, I think that's an idiots game. But when you've got a website you believe in, you try to promote it.
So...I emailed CmdrTaco (Rob Limo) and asked in a very nice way..."what does it take to get listed on Slashdot?".
I got this frigging major nasty email from him, telling me my site was pointless, overdone, ignorant, and pretty much sucked the sweat of Jar Jar's privates (I'm prolly gonna lose any chance of a moderators liking this post because of the last phrase). Well, I can't say I was crushed, but it wasn't the nicest feeling. Heck, I even stopped reading Slashdot for a while because of it.
About a week later CmdrTaco announced "Your rights online", and I felt anger, disappointment, annoyance. The similarity is not small.
So I wrote Rob another letter, this time asking him why he would do this, when Geekrights.org wasn't likeable enough. His response was "I'm sick and tired of the word GEEK, it's overused, trendy, and I'm sorry I named my radio show "Geeks in Space". And more, Your Rights Online is nothing like Geekrights.org" Effectively..."Blow me, jerk", or at least that was the impression I got.
So anyway, my impression as unbiased as I try to be, yet biased I am, is that Rob is kind of a jerk, Slashdot is still a good read, but I definitely wouldn't want to be affiliated with it without some major turnaround in their policies.
TheGeek
http://www.geekrights.org
TheGeek
http://www.geekrights.org
Kill the monkey
... to quote a co-worker's sincere response to a bug report from a very detail-oriented QA engineer, "Does anyone really care?"
There are two components to the whole geek thing.
Decomposing them into their orthogonal basis vectors:
nerd: someone who understands technology, enjoys playing with it, possesses substantially above average intelligence. no negative implications about lack of social skills.
dweeb: person with deficient social skills, such as not washing, excessive tape on glasses, unable to deal with other people reasonably. dweeb has no positive connotations of nerdliness; they are not necessarily smart or competent at anything.
geek: nerd + dweeb. A smart person with no social skills; someone who is at once a nerd and a dweeb.
Besides geeky and dweeby, there are two adjectival forms "nerdy" and "nerdly". nerdy is a word applied to something which is fundamentally of the nerd persuasion, but starting to border on geeky/dweeby; it has a somewhat negative connotation. nerdly is a positive term, with no connotations of geekiness.
I don't consider the Nerd Pride buttons and pocket protectors (I have one of each) to be much of a joke. At the time, nerds were not getting much respect in society in general, and this was a way for the group to show some solidarity/group identity.
-gdt, MIT VI-3 (cs) '87, PhD '94
Everyone is being so literal, and that truely is not the case. Geeks and nerds apply to everything, they are just called something else when applied to a different subject matter. For example- An audio buff is technically an audio geek, his life revolves around the minute details of technology and the seemingly subtle differences the mere layman cannot express nor could even bother to matter. Such things are more for gearheads one would say, and individuals who need these type of specifics are far from the norm. I believe we are all geeks about things we are adamantly interested, whether they are crafts, fishing, cooking or simply poets. As one ad campaign recently cited simplify, I quip diversify for being a geek or nerd is not so much about who you are, but about life in general.