Slashdot Mirror
Subdermal Implant Can Be Tracked via GPS
mack knife writes "Applied Digital Solutions, Inc., received a patent for a device which can be implanted under the skin and powered by biomechanical energy. The device, a transceiver, can be tracked through GPS. God help us all. Yahoo story here." Or see the company's page. If your kid gets lost at MouseWorldtm, no need to use the park's PA system and annoy everyone by paging him - just whip out the GPS transceiver and home in on him. Maybe we can start implanting them at birth.
Any theories on what 666 is supposed to be?
---
There are 11 types of people in the world: those who understand unary, and those who don't.
So, in the story, a criminal convinces a kid not to have such a chip implanted, for him to use the kid several years later to perpetrate a "perfect crime", thanks to the kid's "unusual" untraceability...
-- ----------------------------------------------
Vive le logiciel... Libre!!!
The more power wielded (sp?) by those that govern, the more likely it will be that corrupt peolpe will seek to govern.
There are 11 types of people in the world: those who understand unary, and those who don't.
Can't implanting a foreign and unwanted substance constitute malpractice?
A relevant October 99 article from that bastion of net rapture, Wired. Refreshingly critical from a mag that is usually so swept up in the brave new future.
Covers a company making GPS tracking claims similar to the ADSX announcement.
Anatomy of a Spam
Having read both articles, I need more evidence that this ADSX technology is viable in the near term. otherwise this announcement is just more vaporware.
I believe in freedom. I believe that giving up freedom for security would be a huge loss.
A decent sized microwave burst would effectively remove ANYONE from society! :) -Mr Spatula
Isn't that what hitler told the Jews when he made them all register and wear the Star of David on their arm. That was to more easily track them and make sure all their belongings were accounted for, wasn't it. Sounds like Hitler had a great plan, people just didn't have an open enough mind. People like you make me very scared.
certainly have something to hide. Individual people enjoy being "naughty" once in awhile, but society as a whole suffers the consequences of combined individual "naughtiness". The condition that facilitates naughtiness is privacy. Most (sane) people think "if I'm not being watched, I can do whatever I want".
I see nothing wrong with the government or, better yet, civilians being able to keep track of everybody else. Think of all the maladies that plauge our world. Disease. Teen pregnancy. Physical abuse of children. The list goes on and on and on. These destructive social disasters could very easily vanish if we had a way of patroling our own society.
Consider being able to fire up your HMD and find out if your teenage child is *really* at the Mall or if it's a smokescreen. Maybe their smoking crack, or perhaps, in very close proximity with a questionable young person of the opposite sex. It's not a matter of trust, it's a matter of protection. People's entire lives can be destroyed by mistakes made under the viel of privacy.
I'd be more than willing to wear an implant, be under constant video surveillance, etc. because I have nothing to hide. Our govt. writes definitions of "right" and "wrong" but the collective people ultimately control the government.
Before this turns into a rant....I'll just put on my asbestos underwear and leave it at that.
_.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._
ASCII art?? I thought it was a REGULAR expression
And that is exactly their (those who are actually ruling the world) intention, that people are arguing like you do: It is very useful, so let's accept it. Or they are working with the fear and desperation of parents whose children are missing. The chipped kid can't get lost. Great. So let's accept it. Of course it has advantages!! Of course they are not *forcing* us, but *tempting* us. But please try to see also the *disadvantages* (which is a cute little word for evil consequences that it can have). There is some good literature on this by now. I think we all should really get informed and be very careful.
I bet those authorities will have a harder time tracking you down if you cover your body with tin foil...
Mcrochip requiers a scanner to be passed over the animal. It can't be done remotly, but it has returned alot of pets to their owners!
You're an optimist.
And anyway do you think the governemt has the time to track all 4 billion people on the planet?
Right on. Tracking all 6 billion people, or even half of us, would be inconceivably difficult, something like real time monitoring of all international electronic and voice communications.
What's that you say? Echelon? Oh. Well then, maybe not so inconceivable.
"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead
so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark,
which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the
number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666" (Rev. 13:16-18).
I realize I am nitpicking, but we are already at 6 billion
"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666" (Rev. 13:16-18).
...and not jumping to Orwellian conclusions! Personally, I see a great many uses for this technology besides the "Big Brother" type. As mentioned, this would be gret for researchers. For example: to tag a shark, the electronic tag is attached to the dorsal fin, where it transmits for a week to perhaps a month, then falls off. However, with an implanted chip, the tag would not fall off, allowing scientists to track the animal for much longer. Another benefit is that a tiny implanted chip would be much more comfortable for the animal than current tags that either hang from the ear, or look like silver backpacks in the case of penguins. I would imagine that these become snagged or unwieldly. Also, this could be used for pets. Cats, dogs, even birds have a tendancy to escape, and your chances of finding them again are fairly slim. However, an implanted chip would be great. Can I imagine this being used in humans? Well, I have read 1984 and the like. But I have serious doubts that in the real world, this would ever come to pass. We need to stop fearing new technology for it's potential misuses, and embrace it for it's benefits.
The number one cause of computer problems is computer solutions.
Hell, I see this happening WAY sooner than 20 years from now. Remember Hillary's National Medical ID car, and the biometrics stuff that the Clintons are always pushing. They have a variety of excuses: the children, social security, health care. You can't say no to that, can you?
No comment at this time
As a result of this, the inevitable following posts regarding the tag of prisoners, infants at birth and immigrants will be off-base, at least in western democracies.
Actually, I don't see a problem with tagging people convicted of certain crimes (especially violent crimes). The way I see it, they gave up most of their rights when they did the crime. Barring forced tagging, there could always be the option of early release for those who willingly allow themselves to be tagged.
This would be a tremendous deterence to repeating an offence if you could prove where the suspect was at the time of the crime.
When will Windows be ready for the desktop?
I suspect that, in practice, such an implanted tag would never communicate directly with a satalite.
The range would probably be 5 to 10 feet, and they would be activated by earthbound "location transceivers". These would talk to the sattilites (or maybe just use phone lines if they had a fixed position).
They would be located at the entrances to public (and many orivate) buidings, all over at airports, eventually at streetcorners, in your car (the bait would be the convenience of no car keys, but the police would love this as well...), police cars, probably in your house as part of the security system, and so on.
Whenever you passed near one of these stations, it would activate your implant, read your code, combine it with the ground stations known location, and transmit it back to the central database, maybe using a satalite, maybe not. GPS would likely only be used on those groundstations that are mobil, such as cars.
Jim Buchanan
Yes, "Absolute Power corrupts Absolutely", but you're missing the first part of the quote, "Power tend to corrupt, and absolute ..."
Letting alone all paranoia and privacy issues, will those little implants work for everyone ? I mean, as soon as one speaks about implanting something in the human body, one quickly realizes that it doesn't work with some people... Will there be rejections ? Could this be dangerous (or even lethal) to some individuals ?
Just imagine you have your grandmother "implanted" (bah I hate this word) and instead of helping you know where she is it kills her in 3 days ?
Yeah, this was a bit exagerated... I'm not convinced by this thing, anyway.
Just my $2E-2
Karma cannot be described by words alone.
I think this type of technology can have some very valuable uses if used properly.
;)
This is your key statement. Unfortunately, as human history has shown, we never use things properly. Well we start doing so, but then someone takes advantage of it, and everyone else sees that they need to, otherwise they will be left behind in the dust. The same goes with patents themselves. They started as a good thing because they were used properly. But then companies saw that they could use them for a greater advantage, and other companies followed because of the fear of what could happen if they don't.
Implanting chips should be thought out in every way, and debated thoroughly. I personally don't like this idea, but I do have to say, my stock broker talked me into buying 100 shares of this company last week. So I have mixed emotions about this
Steven Rostedt
Steven Rostedt
-- Nevermind
You can't see a situation that this could be good? Really?
How about car crime? Say a couple of kids steal a car and go off joy-riding. The police see them and give chase. A long and dangerous persuit ensues. The lives of the kids, police, and anyone else around is endangered. If they were tagged the police just log the tag numbers and leave them to drive off. The kids know that they WILL be prosecuted, and there isn't a hope in hell of them getting away. So there isn't a long and dangerous chase.
What about wrongful prosecution? "Where were you on the night of the 14th" type thing. People have been arrested and put in prison, but if they could have proven where they were (history logs from the tags) they wouldn't even have been arrested.
So, you don't think stopping a single innocent man from going to prison is worth being tagged do you not? Okay, so the system could be open to abuse, but it does have possibilities. Think about what it could mean for others, not just yourself.
AC
Unless someone can give me conclusive proof that this device was constructed under direct instructions from the anti-christ to be implanted in our head or hands to control whether we can buy or sell goods--no way am i getting one.
Without the satan angle its just some cheezy way for Big Brother to make sure i'm staying where i should, and nobody needs that kind of hassle.
I am also a parent of two very young children. And I could not see myself implanting them with chips, even though I would be devastated if they were ever taken. But the morality of implanting something does not seem to be the answer. I rather be extra careful with them. Its a major dilemma that I have yet been asked.
Look at it this way. Would you have been happy if your parents implanted something in you for this very reason?
Steven Rostedt
Steven Rostedt
-- Nevermind
let me put in a word that this might not necessarily be a bad thing if used correctly...
I agree completly. However, looking at the US government's track record, I think it's pretty unlikely this will be used correctly.
Finkployd
"It is for your own good!" Is a statment used by people to get them to trust you. I don't like needles - give me the 'blue pill'!
Any tool can be used for 'good' or for 'evil' - If you really want to fight it, then you could purchase stock in the company and vote not to, or you could find out how they are going to do the tracking and prove that the technology has problems. Personally - if they used them like the 'Tap-Coms' in Next-Generation I wouldn't mind it. Make it a meta-phone.
Were is Robin - In the closet at home.
But once they have it, then companies will track you everyplace you go.
Where is Robin?
In the Bathroom.
How long has Robin been in the Bathroom?
2 hours 10 minuets.
As the 'rescue' crew is called by the software to monitor movements and I loose my job...
Ratting 4 - Just blowing off steam.
Now the only thing that is missing is the bionic camera - so we can watch you stuff grits down your pants.
To find the truth, you must look beyond what you see.
Sounds to me like the perfect way for a smart hacker to physically assume someone else's identity. Sounds like the perfect way to commit crimes in the future. Maybe you could be the next victim...
Russian Russian Russian RussianDollSig DollSig DollSig DollSig
So we could have a 'bullet' that is litterly going to track us down.
What was that movie with Tom Seleck that had the bullets that would lock on, and follow you?
Maybe we should check the infared tracking systems and check to see 'who does not' have one of the devices. I wonder who they would be?
To find the truth, you must look beyond what you see.
You must not read Sci-Fi. Anyone of the worlds that have been written about.
The rule of thumb is if you can imagine it then someone can create it.
Don't you like riding in a hand basket?
To find the truth, you must look beyond what you see.
"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666" (Rev. 13:16-18).
Then you should've added valuable input like I do.
"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666" (Rev. 13:16-18).
The company has not been acquired by Microsoft.
"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666" (Rev. 13:16-18).
>>>Why does every technology or legislation having great potential for limiting privacy and personal freedom "protect our children" ?
Because we live in an age where the security of most (American) people is so complete that we are systematically eliminating every behavior deemed risky or politically incorrect. The media blasts us with it, a do-gooder/"survivor" steps forward to denounce it, and a politician attempts to legislate against it. American voters (and yes, I am American) are dimwitted enough to think that anything done for "the children" must be a GOOD THING no matter what the consequences.
People really need to realize that this is a fantastic time to be alive, and there's few personal freedoms that need to be governed. Corporate freedoms, on the other hand...
Slashdot: Liberal News for Nerds. Liberal Stuff that Matters.
THis is valuable:
"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666" (Rev. 13:16-18).
automated tole boths have been used to convict people of crimes already.. and these would be a next step. I do not see a way to fix these things execpt to make it easy to lie to them, i.e. easy to make them evidence for you or against someone else. People need to write the howtos for messing with these things so that the real criminals can use them to evade the law or get people falsly convicted. If there are enough false convictions/prosicutions these problems will eventually be fixed.. and it seems this is the only way they will be fixed.
Sounds like we are well on the way to the Biblical Mark of the Beast.
This device does not exist yet! So quit worrying about Mark-of-the-Beast and Big-Brother scenarios. The article says they plan on having a prototype by the end of next year. I don't think they can do it. Certainly not in a year. Surely you all can't be so technically clueless not to know that the sort of R&D breakthroughs required would be hard, very hard. What's the smallest GPS device available today? I think it's about the size of a LARGE watch. And that doesn't incorporate a transmitter. They want to shrink the combination into an implantable size and to develop the means to power it within the body using muscle movement within a year??? Hmmm ...
What's next? nanobots? quantum computers? dna computers? fuck! What's the world coming to?
"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666" (Rev. 13:16-18).
Scary, isn't it?
Before anyone comes up with conspiracy theories as to how the government just might take these and implant them in everybody at birth so that they can track each and every citizen in real time as he journals over the globe (and into space when the GPS system is extended into space), learning exactly how he spends his time on an average day as a measure to fight against "crime" (which has been at a record low) while paying no regard to privacy, let me put in a word that this might not necessarily be a bad thing if used correctly...
Daniel J. Peng
In the case of you or me we [maybe not] may fear an auto could or will be stolen; the local US police can use Lojack, a gps system, to get it back. For parents a lost or kidnapped child is the end of the world as they know it. That is why "Lojack for Kids" will become A Good Thing(tm) for politicians. The police will thing its cool too, as they are paid by those same politicians. This model is good in the USofA but may work anywhere. -d
Sorry, to be off-topic and all,
but why didn't this article "appear"
on the top of the page?
It just popped up on position number 3.
Anyone got an explanation?
"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666" (Rev. 13:16-18).
Read the Bible and learn.
"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666" (Rev. 13:16-18).
Read the Bible and learn.
Imagine a situation where a large proportion of individuals are actually tagged using this system.
To the extent that it is taken as proof of identity...
Masquerading as another person by manipulating the chip would be cool.
Also a decent sized EMP/microwave burst would effectively remove them from society as well!
The secret of success is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake those, you've got it made. (Marx)
Ohhh, I'm sorry, I thought you knew. That 'freedom' thing was repealed in the 50's. It was right around the time that privacy became a matter of perspective. Get over it...
It can be activated either by the "wearer" or by a remote monitoring facility ... But then again, I don't like the 'remote monitoring facility' idea.
I could think of a few situations where this would have benefits : downed pilots, or rescue workers, law enforcement personnel, elderly people,
superblog.org: all your favourite blogs on o
Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
yeah
Think of that: you carry a GPS along, a road map, and you will never get lost again!
-------------------------
"People ask FAQs all the time". - David Allen
It really shouldn't take much to see that there is a great potential for abuse with a system like this.
Indeed. Might I ask what your feelings on gun control are?
Any technology can be abused. Anything powerful enough to be useful can also be harmful. The first time it happened was when proto-humans discovered that the thigh bone of an antelope could kill their fellow proto-humans as easily as it could kill their prey.
The application of a tool does not make the tool bad, and knowledge cannot be unlearned. Trying to stuff this genie back into the bottle -- the technological equivalent of sticking your head in the sand -- is not going to work.
Do not try to fight then inevitable. Embrace it instead, and make sure it does not get abused. Strive to make the human race better instead of trying to limit the tools we use in our self-abuse.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
Personally, I think that the coming century will be The Century Of Lost Privacy. Everyone easily accessible, everyone online, everyone with a handy and a PID, you give someone a handshake and he hacks into your PAN... no, not even that: you give your data automatically, because you are expected to, just as you are expected now to have a phone at home, so people from the office can reach you any time (no, I have no phone at home. But I spend most of my time in the lab anyway). Privacy will be a luxury, an expensive treat: like, you have to pay to have your phone removed from the telephone book, only more. What I'm saying here isn't a new prophecy: we are all expecting it, aren't we? So what can we do against it? Staing online when we want on one hand, but disconnecting from the global information system when we want.
It's clear for me that those implants will become extremly popular: the drawbacks are much weaker then the profits, and, what is probably more important, the *comfort*, the easieness of achieving certain goals. Say, most of the cases a kid is lost it's the parents who didn't pay attention as they should. Now - implanting this tracking device is much easier then being reasonable, isn't it? People are striving towards easy solutions, even if they are bad in the longterm. What is easier *now* is better.
I think I'm in a pessimistic mood today...
Regards,
January
Forget us private citizens, why not give it to soldiers?
You have every single air force pilot, infantry grunt, what have you...sporting one of these tiny devices under his big ol' "24th MI BATILLON KICKS ASS" skull and eagle tattoo. This way, if he gets captured, Norman Schwartzsneeze can know the exact position of the POW camp or where ever it is "they" take captured US soldiers.
What if the enemy finds out about our country's little secret? What if Omar Obdell Rockmond reads slashdot? I'd hate to me a captured army man...I'm sure they'd perform a little exploaratory surgery...eeeeccchhh!!!
A consumer device to detect subdermal implants.
Monitor the heart rate??? Yep, a couple is getting it on and down goes the door with medics running in. A new form of condom.
-------
CAIMLAS
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Obviously there aren't to many parents on Slashdot.
I am a parent...twice.
A parent's worse nightmare is the potential snatching of their children.
This sort of device would be great for young kids. Johnny gets snatched, a quick call to the appropriate folks, the cops get the bad guy and I get my kid back.
All of the weirdos who swap photos on alt.*.binaries would hate this, and thats a "good thing".
I don't know about ACC, but subdermal tracers feature prominently in some of Niven's work.
In his "Known Space" world, he wrote a seires of futuristic detective stories featuring Gil "The ARM" Hamilton.
The ARM, or Algamarated Regional Militia, is the Earth's future police/military, after the United Nations becomes the govergning body of the planet.
Anyway, one of the ARM's tools are subdermal tracer implants put in place by ARM agents without the subject's knowledge. These are used to track criminal suspects, possible kidnap victims, basically anyone the police would like to keep tabs on.
I think the method of application was an airgun from a distance or something, so having one implanted would feel like nothing more than an any little pin prick or inscet bite.
The Gil Hamilton stories take place in the relatively near future, 2050 or so. Many of them deal with the consequences of perfected rejection-free organ transplants, but before new organs can be cloned. Consequently, a trade in "organlegging" is established... people are kidnapped and broken up into spare parts for black-market transplant shops. Other social ramificationss are delt with too, as the death penalty is common for infractions we'd consider ridiculously minor. The reason? Demand for transplant organs, as the perferred execution is the organ banks. Also forget about preserving yourself cryonically... you'll wake up one piece at a time.
They're really fascinating stories that I highly recommend.
john
Imagine all the people...
Daca nu taci ma din gura, sparg nasul. Si STIU nu vrei sa-ti sprag nasul! Sau vrei? Prentruca daca vrei, e nic-o problema... ;)
Connah
Connah
"Your mouse has moved. Windows NT must be restarted for this change to take effect."
Q1, Forgive my lack of knowledge of patent law, but not very much of this is "new", this concept has cropped up in the media many times and is pretty old. Point 15 seems to be the "original" bit.
Question 2, I'm no physicist, but I would guess that it should be possible to create a wearable device that can create enough interfere with the GPS signal to block the tracking device when you want to. How difficult would this be?
It looks like they spent a whole weekend doing the so-called "development" of this - maybe even a three day weekend... The details are about on the order of those in the Starfleet Technical Reference Manual (only the illustrations aren;t nearly as nice...)
I heard of a similar implant a few years ago, except it was for pets here in California. I personally think they will try to use it for people that are under house arrest very soon.
Man, you zealots ARE stupid fucks aren't you? If you actually buy into that religion crap you are stupid. You never see God, or Satan, or any proof whatsoever and yet you STILL believe. You've got that little kid and Santa complex going. "Santa doesn't exist. Do you ever see him?" "Uh... no. But he's at the north pole!" "God doesn't exist." "Uh... he's in Heaven!" I mean, really. If you would just point out to me where God is, I might believe you. But until then I'm not believing anything the bible says and all of you who buy into it are going to be treated like the dependent weaklings you are.
Nope, not at all.
What about wrongful prosecution? "Where were you on the night of the 14th" type thing. People have been arrested and put in prison, but if they could have proven where they were (history logs from the tags) they wouldn't even have been arrested.
And the government would never fake up any logs to wrongfully prosecute an "enemy of the state", would they??
So, you don't think stopping a single innocent man from going to prison is worth being tagged do you not? Okay, so the system could be open to abuse, but it does have possibilities. Think about what it could mean for others, not just yourself.
I thought about the possibilities, and it's scary. As I said before, that's the same argument most of the uninformed folks use when they propose more gun control. "If only one person is saved, it's worth it." Except that argument always falls on it's face when you look at the reverse side of the argument. In order for that to stand up to reality, you also have to include the lives that are taken because of what is proposed. In the histroy of this earth, not just the US, the lives lost due to plans to "help us" have taken more than they have saved.
Diggs
If guns are so evil, how come Sarah Brady can hold one and not turn into a raving lunatic?? Oh yeah, she is one already.
Makes sense. Also, I said in another post that this system would|could be used like Lojack. Well, I also stated that Lojack was "a gps system", I think that statement is not really correct. The correct, and I am not sure I am right, answer is; Lojack is microwave station based. Now this new device could use the existing system the Lojack people designed. If I am correct. -d
blam! hehehhe
Oops..I'm going to get moderated down for that subject line, aren't I? ;)
;)
Well, nevertheless, just wanted to let y'all know that all this crap about "so-and-so is the Antichrist" and "This must be the Mark of the Beast" is just that - CRAP. Because it's pretty clear if you even just skim all the propechies in the Bible that the rise of the Antichrist and the mark of the beast occurs AFTER the rapture. And the last time I checked, millions of people had yet to disappear from the face of the Earth. Heck, even the popular fiction about the end times gets this part right - rapture first, then the beast...
I would think that Slashdot would have posted a story about that anywayz.
I seen a few references to the mark of the beast.. Having studied the bible a good bit.. No one knows what the mark of the beast is. It certainly is not 666.. That number is just most generally associated with hate and devil worshipping etc. Bleh. ITS NOT THE MARK OF THE BEAST.. :-) Thanks for reading.
Like a car boot.
GPS as I know it won't work indoors either.
Anyway I'm not convinced about that thing.
Link.
If ya'll are REALLY interested in this...there's a web page that kinda gives a glimpse into it. http://www.jesus8880.com/homepage.htm have fun and break out your compasses:)
>A parent's worse nightmare is the potential snatching of their children.
Your kid is far more likely to be killed by a drunk driver hopping a curb, than snatched by a stranger on the street. (Hell, for that matter, any kid is far more likely to die falling off a bike than being grabbed by a stranger.)
The last genuine case of this kind that I heard of was the Polly Claas kindapping/murder about five years ago in California. Now, consider for a moment how many millions of kids there are in the USA, and what the actual danger to your kids is. Are you going to demand other irrational legislation (like banning cars since kids get killed in traffic, or banning churches because some priests rape altar boys?)
I'm far more worried about my niece and nephew growing up in a totalitarian society, handed to the jackbooted thugs on a fucking silver platter by paranoid idiots who think that some asshole in a trenchcoat is more dangerous than Officer Friendly.
How would you like to explain to your grandchildren someday, that you and other sheep let their country degenerate into fascism because you were trying to "protect" them?
Sorry, I have no patience for this kind of stupidity.
-jcr
Movie was called 'Runaway' and was about rogue robots etc, including a person tracking smart micro-missile.
--
Delphis
...just look for the kids that wrap themselves in aluminum foil. :P
Hush now, baby, don't you cry Mama's gonna make all of your nightmares come true Mama's gonna put all of her fears into you Mama's gonna keep you right here under her wing She won't let you fly, but she might let you sing Ooooh babe, oooh babe, oooh babe Of course mam'll help build the wall. Hush now, baby, don't you cry, Mama's gonna check out all your girl friends for you Mama won't let anyone dirty get through Mama's gonna wait up till you come in Mama will always find out where you've been Mama's gonna keep you healthy and clean Ooooh babe, ooooh babe, ooooh babe You'll always be a baby to me. (mother, did it need to be so high?)
In order for anything to reliably receive GPS signals, you've got to have a sensitive antenna and essentially be outdoors. The idea that an implant in any fashion could do so is ludicrous with current technology.
More likely, the implants send out a very weak signal which can be picked up by ground stations (perhaps mobile), which would be able to triangulate the position and compare it against GPS coordinates of the tracking station.
And with respects congress eliminating funding for GPS, you may have misread that article or something. GPS as it is will be untouched. Only funding for the "modernization" of it (making it much more accurate, and potentially incompatible with existing receivers) was cancelled. GPS isn't going anywhere.
>"It is for your own good!" Is a statment used by
>people to get them to trust you. I don't like
>needles - give me the 'blue pill'!
Take the *red* pill!!! You could be the one! All I'm offering is the truth, nothing more.
Sorry. I couldn't resist.
john
Imagine all the people...
No offense, but people like you really frighten me. It really shouldn't take much to see that there is a great potential for abuse with a system like this. Imagine a system like this carried out forcefully on an entire population such as Communist China.
Even if you were a "good citizen", you could suddenly come under suspicion if the computers tracking you determined you came into contact with a dissident. Or perhaps you were loitering too long in the wrong place at the wrong time.
You can be assured that if the Chinese government had something like this after the Tiananmen Square massacre that every citizen determined to have spent too much time in the area would be suspected of harboring anti-government thought.
It is not a far stretch to see that this could be misused in other countries as well. In the United States, even with a pretty paranoid Constitution there have been massive abuses by the government. I certainly don't feel the entire government is out to "get" anybody, but it only takes a few corrupt individuals placed in the right position to abuse their power.
Do you feel it was right for the FBI to investigate and infiltrate the organization of Martin Luther King Jr., the civil rights leader? It happened. Ever read the Puzzle Palace? Check out Project SHAMROCK.
"In 1945, Project SHAMROCK was initiated to obtain copies of all telegraphic information exiting or entering the United States. With the full cooperation of RCA, ITT and Western Union (representing almost all of the telegraphic traffic in the US at the time), the NSA's predecessor and later the NSA itself were provided with daily microfilm copies of all incoming, outgoing and transiting telegraphs."
How about OPERATION CHAOS?
"When Johnson ordered CIA Director John McCone to use the DOD to analyse the growing college student protests against the Administration's policy towards Vietnam, two new units were set up to target anti-war protesters and organisations: Project RESISTANCE, which worked with college administrators, campus security and local police to identify anti-war activists and political dissidents; and Project MERRIMAC, which monitored any demonstrations being conducted in the Washington, DC, area. The CIA then began monitoring student activists and infiltrating anti-war organisations by working with local police departments to pull-off burglaries, illegal entries (black bag jobs), interrogations and electronic surveillance. After President Nixon came to office in 1969, all of these domestic surveillance activities were consolidated into Operation CHAOS."
http://www.i sleofavalon.co.uk/local/h-pages/pro-freedom/echelThese are just a few documented abuses of power that have occured in the recent past. Do you truly believe that abuses won't take place again?
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."- The Papers of Ben Franklin
The more you know, the less you understand.
Yes, you can and it's not very expensive. It works a little differently, though, in that you can't read it from a satellite. Animal Control or the Humane Society or your vet will have a handheld scanner that will pick up the trace from the implant when they pass it over the animal's shoulderblades (where the chip is implanted) and display its information. In that respect, it isn't much different than a dog tag. Dog tags and collars can come off, though.
"Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
If they get it cheap enough, then ever phone, every car, every TV, Stereo, computer, and pair of sunglasses could have one. Turn on a light - and it is powered.
Place them in your cat and you can find the cat anytime you want.
Place them in your child, and know that he was in the car doing the drive by.
Trust me it is for your own good! They always say that just before they stick you with the needle!
Ratting 4 - Just blowing off steam.
To find the truth, you must look beyond what you see.
This SF novel goes into the idea of implants that broadcast your location/identity at all times. One theme in this novel: in the future, criminals have their ID chip tagged so that they can be legally raped or sexually assaulted by any citizen. It's a rather grim book in a lot of places, but worth reading if you're interested in exploring some of the consequences of ID chips.
I am a parent and I frequent Slasdot. I think I fear me, my wife or my daughter being tracked by some government agency than my any of us being snatched by some *sicko*.
A little more erosion of personal privacy and freedom in the name of the greater public good. Sheesh! If they implant them at birth will you get the choice to say no? Could you possbly be black listed as a subversive if you refuse?
No thanks. I think I'll rely on prayer.
lcase - @home in cyberspace
Getting phiolosophical here (and a little off topic):
What happens when these kinds of "privacy killing" devices are ubiquitous? How about when no implant is needed to track you? ("Kirk: He's the only vulcan on the whole ship, can't you get a lock on him?") Perhaps we will stop caring about privacy. We will succumb to the fact that all our knowledge is shareable, and we will not become quiet mice, but louder than ever. We will share our thoughts without fear of judgement or retribution. At that point, humanity will become more productive than ever before. How many geniuses sit silently without sharing their thoughts, for fear of becoming insane?
Perhaps that world isn't so bad after all. But for it to work, humanity must grow at the same rate as technology.
(Okay, this won't ACTUALLY happen, but its a nice thought)
I must say that scares me a great deal. I can just imagine in five or ten years... A law will probably be passed that requires the use of these devices starting from birth. I think that technologies like this can be abused far too easily. The possibilities boggle the mind.
Or have sex with your spouse in an open, public place? If you wouldn't you obviously have something to hide! And of course you do you moron! There are things that are NONE OF ANYONE ELSES FUCKING BUSINESS AND ARE PERFECTLY LAWFUL AND MORAL!!! PRIVACY IS A RIGHT, NOT A PRIVILEDGE!!
or a relative. Most sexual molestations are perpetrated by relatives: father, brother, uncle and not by strangers. Maybe we should tag you?
Hush now, baby, don't you cry
Mama's gonna make all of your nightmares come true
Mama's gonna put all of her fears into you
Mama's gonna keep you right here under her wing
She won't let you fly, but she might let you sing
Ooooh babe, oooh babe, oooh babe
Of course mam'll help build the wall.
Hush now, baby, don't you cry,
Mama's gonna check out all your girl friends for you
Mama won't let anyone dirty get through
Mama's gonna wait up till you come in
Mama will always find out where you've been
Mama's gonna keep you healthy and clean
Ooooh babe, ooooh babe, ooooh babe
You'll always be a baby to me.
(mother, did it need to be so high?)
> Breast implants seemed like a good idea to a lot of people at first too.
Breast implants also turned out to be safe; they were never able to prove any ill effects. Whether they were a good idea or not, who knows?
this device must be triggered by the user
The article explicitely indicates it could be potentially activated by the user or by a monitoring station.
It wouldn't be very useful for doing things like tracking animals if the animals had to be the ones activating the implant, yes?
I imagine the market for this type of device in *humans* will not be realistically high compared with other uses.
How about some more discussion of the technical feasability of this idea?
So long as the transmissions were done quickly, and the base stations were dense enough in the area to search (they could be mobile), I don't see why this wouldn't necessarily work.
I don't imagine the type of coverage offered by, say, cell phone towers would be remotely capable of detecting a signal from one of these implants, so any area you want this device to function in would have to be specifically set up to do so, probably at a substantial cost.
But who knows, maybe they've developed a way of transmitting signals that would work at much greater distances than I'm tempted to believe...
I think you are the moron. The Bible says that we will be (YOU will be) forced to take the mark to buy and sell. The rapture hasnt happened yet. AND, We have not been forced to take the mark yet. This still could be the technology that will become the mark. The Bible tell us that will cannot know the time and day, but we can know the season if we are watching. I have been watching, the season is here.
there is something very wrong when these greedy companies patent everything possible which sohuld not be allowed to patent many obvious ideas.
the government doesnt care because the more patents they approve of the more fees they get and the more they make to spend it on who knows what.
!?!?#5^?57?^73?67^?78*?&*/7(?&*(?&*9/*(?*?
Duh, thats why I have sex at the office...
There was an article in Wired magazine that I remember being about this sort of thing, and how much of a fraud it was. All the investors have lost every single cent they put into it. I would not be suprised if this was the same company.
20.12.99 i have not been able to log in yet, but would like to point out how glad i am not to live in the us. what a nightmare ! the use of any implants such as discussed is not permissible here and is not even remotely discussed. anything like this would invoke courtcases and millions in damages. best regards, mpg ffm.
Response I'd expect from a liberal coward. But then tagging a parent who is expected to be with the child is not going to produce any useful data. What you want is universal security camera coverage, wont that make you feel warm and fuzzy while your taking a dump or lancing that boil.
Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
This device determines its location via reception of GPS signals and then transmits this location to a network of ground receivers. Conventional tracking devices transmit a signal that requires triangulation with multiple receivers for the device to be located with certainty. This new device would instead transmit a low-power signal containing digital location information. Any receiver which received this signal would instantly know the exact location of the 'wearer.' The technological breakthrough seems to be the miniaturization of the GPS receiver and the biomechanical powering of a transmitter. To conserve power and avoid detection, the new device probably transmits very short bursts of digital data at random time intervals.
Both are mindless herd animals that would give up anything and everything for the security of the group. Hardly a suprise.
The bible tells us that the mark of the beast will be on the forehead or the right hand.
So, we just require everyone to have these things implanted in their LEFT hand!!!
Or their armpit, or bellybutton, or buttocks, or somewhere.
Then we'll be *perfectly* safe from the antichrist!
john
Imagine all the people...
What if someone was locked in the trunk of a car or in a house. GPS uses satalites that require line of site to work. I've read a lot of articles about this kind of stuff and I don't really see it being anything more than vapor ware for atleast a few more years. But untill the technology that GPS uses is fundamentaly changed this isn't going to happen.
Here's the scenario that gives *ME* the willies.
:) ) They feel that
(For purposes of this story, we are assuming that activating/locating this device is a trivial
issue, and not something the National Guard is called out for.)
Mother Careful, and Father Careful have Baby Careful. Mother and Father have heard all
about this new "Angel" thing from the hospital, and they say it's only $20 (They mention
it right after asking if they want him 'snipped' (Baby Careful is a Boy
this is, of course, a very sensible thing to do, as some mean person may wish to steal their
wonderful Baby. "Now we will always know where Baby is" crows Father Careful, and
promptly forgets all about it.
Mother Careful, however, doesn't forget.
For the first few years, it's more of a novelty, since Baby Careful is never more than a few
feet from Mother Careful. On Baby's 5th Birthday, Mother has the newer/later version
inserted into Baby which can last almost 20 years ("It's just a tiny slit, and it will heal in a
day or so", says Doctor Helpful) Father knows nothing of this, since he never takes Baby
to his appointments.
Baby Careful's Kindergarten class is interrupted one day, when Mother Careful comes
running in, to discover that the children had been moved to the other side of the building.
(The heat wasn't working in the classroom that day.) She gathers Baby up, and keeps him
home the rest of the week.
Baby Careful (Now Junior Careful) comes home after school, and waits for the questions.
"Yes" he answers, he didn't come right home, he stooped at Jimmy's House for a few
minutes, and then was at the Library. "Almost 45 minutes" Mother Careful corrects him.
"And you didn't go to the Library at all." Junior learns never to try and fool Mother again.
"Mother, I'm 17. I'm practically an Adult", retorts Junior. "I don't care. You were in her
Bedroom, and I told you I don't want my baby doing those kinds of things"
"I was not, I was downstairs in the Living Room, and the Kitchen the whole time. We
were studying, honest"
"Junior... you KNOW you can't lie to Mother. You were *upstairs* in her room for over
an hour. Mother knows everything her little Junior does. You aren't to see that little slut
again.."
"But Mother!!!" This time, his protest is weaker.
"Anyone here named Junior?" asks the bartender to the room, holding a telephone
receiver in the air. Junior hunches up a little more tightly over his drink, and ignores the
question.
Nipok Nek
Why choose white shoes?
This is really intriguing, despite the multitude of evil uses it potentially has. Those aside, I just thought of cool things urban geographers and transportation planners could do with this--conduct better transportation surveys. As it stands, a lot of our spending on infrastructure like roads is tied to surveys that gauge the travel patterns of a small sample of people in a metro area on one carefully selected day of the year (I think it's a Wednesday in October...). This is taken to be representative of everyone's travel patterns. There are lots of better ways I can think of to conduct these surveys, but logistics and cost prevent them.
With this, we could potentially track willing participants that cut across demographic and economic categories. If there was enough computing power in the equation, we could arrive at more accurate descriptions of people's travel habits over the course of a week, or in different seasons.
Just a thought for other geographers out there like myself.
Kinda like those kinetic watches, and probably won't help you if you're dead...
- - - Non Caffeine Drink or Drink Error
The way I read the patent (as posted above) this device must be triggered by the user. At any rate, it's not always transmitting.
..."
That would stand to reason, since transmitters require some power. In order to pick up the signal, they'd have to bounce it off a sat or a cell tower or something. There's no way you could generate enough power with body movement to do that continuously! (I'm imagining people walking around and constantly twirling their arms wildly...)
So this thing must build up energy for a quick transmission, triggered by the user (or maybe a timer).
Even this seems a bit far fetched from a technical standpoint. I remember an article in Wired a couple months back about a fairly shady company with a product called KidTrak (it was total vaporware because the technology to transmit the signal was far too bulky).
To quote the company, this product is "... still in the early developmental stage
I'd love to think these guys have a great product, but I have to assume they've patented technology that doesn't even exist yet in the hopes of capitalizing on it when someone finally figures out how to do it.
How about some more discussion of the technical feasability of this idea? (And less about Big Brother and the black UN helicopters?)
- StaticLimit
Reading this article has pretty much left me speechless, therefore I must be brief. This invention is evil, immoral, wrong, terrifying, and could well lead to the end of all privacy anywhere.
Imagine this scenario: a serial killer is looking around for his next victim. Then, in the street or on the bus or at the McDonalds or somewhere, he sees one whom he fancies adding to his collection. He quickly takes out his pocket implant transceiver (which, despite them not being in the shops, he bought from a black-market dealer), points it discreetly at the prospective victim, presses a button and a second later puts it back. The victim's implant number is now in its memory.
At home, he logs into an online database (money can buy information, and if you're a committed "collector", you can no doubt invest a little in your hobby), enters the number and gets the victim's details; perhaps their home address, perhaps even a trail of where they have been recently, or even where they currently are.
He familiarises himself with his prospective victim; their movement patterns, the people they are often with, when they're likely to be alone. Soon enough he identifies an opportunity to pounce. He moves in, makes sure that the coast is clear and pounces.
The police check the tracker logs to see what happened, but draw a blank; either the killer had never been fitted with an implant or he had it removed. Perhaps his implant is sitting in a drawer somewhere, wired up to a modchip that simulates life signs, reporting that he has been at home all day.
It's the same situation as with an increase in legal concealed weapons. The more guns being worn by good guys, the less likely bad guys are to attack a random person. [In states which had increases in legal weapons, the number of robberies from people went down...but burglaries from empty homes went up a little]
Actually, I'd like to bury one of these things in my laptop, car, and other valuables. If I'm the only one who knows the remote-access code it's no threat to me.
Implant everyone? No. Only those who have been "brought within the system." Probationers, parolees, prisoners and ex-cons. Though of course since these poeple are still a threat to our children, we have to leave the chips in after they have served their time. It's just like tracking sex offenders. A small price to pay for a safer society, right?
These also would be an excellent replacement for the bracelets or anklets used for home detention. Especially if combined with a small explosive charge that detonates if they leave the prescribed area. That will keep these evil perverts from threatening children. And you don't hate children, do you?
Of course, now it's easier to bring people "within the system" for minor offenses, to identify and control them before they go from vandals and joyriders to murderers. We can control more criminals with fewer prisons and police (and thus lower taxes), and have safer streets for our children to play in when we start implanting explosive tracers in minor offenders. This ease of control will let us start getting really serious about law enforcement! No more problems with prison overcrowding when every convict can have their own portable prison.
But what really excites me is the possibility for embracing and extending preventative detention programs. You might know that the courts have found that it's perfectly ok to lock people away before they've actually committed any crime. Really the only barrier to applying this broadly - and thus making our children almost completely safe - is the cost of incarcerating all those thought criminals. No more! Finally, everone who is - or might become - a threat to our children can be tracked and controlled automatically.
Surely, paradise is at hand.
Pardon me while I go stock up on home surgery supplies...
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
re: tracking animals.
there are presently a variety of relatively cheap (5$CAD) methods for counting fish as they migrate up rivers to spawn (eg. salmon and the fraser). UBC actively employes these.
i just want to know where my cat is when she wanders away for a few hours during the morning.
Ah but who else and what other motivation would there be for hacking? I can see Chester the molester tracking you boy. Or the stalker tracking their prey. Also why all the high tech don't you know that these thing will be static sensitive. To disable it you will need only the pizeo electric igniter from a grill lighter. So ok "here comes the hot little 12 year old now" "park the van over there". I'll grab her and you zap it" Ok now we rely on computers for everything and when they go down we are lost! Don't be fooled that this thing will make us all safe! They could easily open new doors to criminals who don't have one or disabled theirs. If we begin to rely on this instead of telling someone where you will be or walking in-groups from the bus. What happens when we don't show up when expected? "Strange Mary's transmitter is not showing up" Is she dead? Or being raped under a cell tower that blocks the signal? Or abducted and disabled? Or did she disable it to sleep with her boyfriend?
Fixer Dave strikes again! by Loki69
Ok, so we've got the two camps:
1. It's a convenience, better security
2. Big Brother
Here's the general case:
Those who are smart and take advantage of this will benefit, while those who don't (most people) will at best receive more convenience, and at worst will die horribly. Nasty Government and organised crime _will_ use it to abuse you. Think about it, if you always have it on, then criminals will better track you, to know when you're away to break into your home/car, where you are to quickly swoop in to kill/rape/maim you, etc. And you can be sure they won't have theirs on, and they will know how to turn yours or your kids' off as well.
When the pro is a little more convenience and the con is your life, it's not worth it. Now, if it was only controllable locally, and could be adhered, not implanted, onto innaimate objects, then that could be usefull, and most people would be able to protect themselves from the negatives. Like only turning it on when you are in trouble, not before, which will undoubtedly lead to your becomming in trouble.
Also, we have genetic diversity for a reason; so plagues and things like that won't kill everyone. Any thing that becomes globally pervasive will leave everyone vulnerable, due to cost of replacement and upgrading flawed technology. This is why things like heterogenious networks are good, when a Win32 virus comes out, all the other machines still work, and when a Linux TCP/IP stack flaw is discovered, all the BSD systems are safe, etc...
Mark Collette
No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I realize that I'm going to moderated down for that, but frankly I think that sums up the feelings of a lot of people concerning this.
Digital Wokan, Tribal mage of the electronics age
Why not? Sex is no big deal. I don't know why it's treated as such a taboo; something that belongs behind closed doors. As for taking a shit..again, why not? All other animals defecate outside. Who am I do deny my animal nature?
Also, being the moron that I am, I am offended by your vulgarity, yelling, and spelling errors.
Take your prozac. I was just offering an alternative point of view.
_.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._
ASCII art?? I thought it was a REGULAR expression
This thing should fit in my wallet, right?
Wow, if you're a sysadmin and you think you're on an electronic leash now...
Kind of an interesting number. Add it up. It's supposed by some to represent ultimate imperfection and incompleteness. 7 representing the perfection of God and all. The bottom line in all this is that power corrupts. Microsoft is a symptom of a much larger problem.... We humans are unable to rule ourselves. This will become ever more painfully apparent as our power increases. Eventually because of threat theft (identity theft is being hyped wildly in the media) and convenience and cost, you WILL take the MARC. -if you ever want to buy groceries.
If isn't attached to bone there are going to be some problems. MRI and floating metal in the body equals badness. trust me.
I dunno...put a chip in my body, on my car keys, and in my car.
a) I'll never get lost.
b) My car keys will never get lost.
c) I'll always be able to find my car in the lot.
I like the idea.
Perhaps we will stop caring about privacy. We will succumb to the fact that all our knowledge is shareable, and we will not become quiet mice, but louder than ever.
That is true, I know that in the MUD I am on, the admin has the ability to log everything you do. And usually this is only done to problem players. I used to be paranoid about everything I do being logged. But after coming to blows with an admin there, in the end I have decided that its really not that important. I don't do things that are illegal and if they really have that much time in their hands to read through every single one of my conversations there, I can only hope that they learn something useful for themselves.
I think in the end, humanity would decide that privacy is nice, but a dream when technology and law gets more integrated.
Make that 1/4 of the world's population and you are much closer to the truth.
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Are you considered a nuisance by the government? Bam, hired assassins come knocking on your door. The state knows your every movement; they know everything you do, every Internet site you visit. Ever seen "Enemy of the State"? In short, I'm not willing to sacrifice my freedom for any cause, no matter how noble
I know that the abuse will take place.
I just don't know what to do about it.
If you protest, you are taged as a Communist which is ironic since the US has already adopted Communism. Carl Marx had an idea of what it would take for a country to be Commuist, and we seem to have followed his rules fairly well.
You don't even have to be protesting and the mentality of a police state will send me to the hospital.
Ratting 4 - Just blowing off steam.
To find the truth, you must look beyond what you see.
I want to complete a transaction - and they ask were my id is, and I present them with my ass!
To find the truth, you must look beyond what you see.
I posted the following as AC before I set up an account: I can see how this device would have many benefits, but stop and think for a moment about a person who is being stalked by an ex-bf or former spouse. Now this stalking victim was implanted with this tracking device at birth, and said psycho-bf can find them easily wherever they are. Oh great. Makes it harder to "disappear" to protect yourself. Sure, parents would always know where their kids were, but with this information getting into the wrong hands, a lot of dangerous people would have an easy time "getting even."
This seems to be a major trend lately. The first time I remember thinking "they've patented Star Trek" was the people who sued Apple for voice controlling a computer. There have been many others lately, and several folks have pointed out Sci-Fi occurences of this technology (though noone's mentioned Scully yet?).
It seems to me if a technology has been done-to-death in the public view, it becomes obvious and the idea, (though not the mechanism) looses patentability.
What say you?
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
This is wonderful, I can now start a business selling aluminum foil hats to all my fellow Missourians who will shortly be emerging from their y2k survival huts, relieved they survived the apocolyps that didn't happen (again) but are now terrified that the government tracking satellites are *REAL*!
Why not look at some of the real facts about this company for yourself. Do not rely on anonymous postings by ranters and ravers. At this link you can find lots of places to look up and read more information about this company. Stock Help Network ADSX Information page.
Bill Austin, Famous Quotes and Sayings
http://home.att.ne
Mark of the beast, could be many things, the bible talks about having to have it to buy food, or buy anything, maybe a gov id system? hmm
You forget that 3/4 of the world's population lives in China. When 3/4 of the population has one it will be hard to stop!
Since all you need is 39 decimal places to calculate the diameter of the known universe down to an error factor of the hydrogen atom - I think it is overkill.
Memory is overatted - to be real special (IMHO) you need to be creative.
To find the truth, you must look beyond what you see.
Maybe they've already been doing this since birth and are already monitoring us?
"Conspiracy" is a charge used by the authorities when they can't convict you of a crime but feel you must be punish you. It has become a very popular charge since the inception of the so-called "drug war". "conspiracy" for instance could possibly be used to convict protestors at the WTO gathering last month. Convicted of conspiracy, and labeled a threat, protestors would be seen as ideal canditates for implanting by the authorities. Implanting would be a fantastic way to discourage protesting, and also convict protestors (if your convicted of conspiracy you can be ordered not to associate with a group of people, and if your implanted they can prove you did associate with them and put you in jail for a longer period of time).
Implanting tracking devices in humans is something that should be opposed.
Oppose innapropriate applications of technology, not technology itself.
In Star Trek, they can take their communicators off... of course that rarely happens for good, usually only when a character is posessed by some space-creature who wants to sleep with some hot young red-shirt. Still once or twice someone must have saved everyone by becoming untracable.
In the Matrix we were batteries.
The interesting part of this technology is the power. Could it work on the surface of the skin? Imagine charging your gadgets by having lunch.
I have a high doubt-quotient about cel phones and brain cancer, but what if it turned out to be true? Can you imagine the tumors these things would cause? At least your cel phone isn't actually connected to your head.
Breast implants seemed like a good idea to a lot of people at first too.
This is probably a reiteration on previous comments however I feel the need to voice my opinion.
Your comment, regardless of whether or not it was a joke, is just a tad much. Implant at birth, my ass. We have little privacy as it is.
I really cannot even understand how someone could say such a thing.
Regards,
WHiTe VaMPiRe\Rem
I fear the posts that will follow after this. It's always a bit frightening when a technology that we've been familiarised with through distopian science fiction comes to the forefront in the real world.
These would be quite handy for zoologists, marine biologists and their ilk. It would allow for much more tracking than the current tagging systems do. It has few applications with human beings that do not violate civil liberties, however. As a result of this, the inevitable following posts regarding the tag of prisoners, infants at birth and immigrants will be off-base, at least in western democracies.
This is nothing more than a gateway technology that will make life easier for researchers. I very sincerely doubt that human implementation will be permitted unless specifically requested by the individual. As far as gateway tech goes, it isn't even very exciting -- what happened to the light-slower-than-light that seemed to open up so many possibilities?
Ah well.
-l
HAHAHA! merridibanosata!!!!! :-)
...but I wouldn't care to have a chip
implanted at birth. If for instance
something were to happen to you,
rescue-teams would find you more
easily.
Maybe they even could integrate
some info on the chip, like your
ID, some basic medical info (think
how usefull it would be if people
wouldn't have to check your bloodtype
after an accident before they can
start transfusing you some blood,
or to know what you are allergic for,
if you already had a shot against
tetanus etc...), your drivers-license
or even your credit-card.
Think about the telecom possibilities.
You could dial someone personal number,
and any phone close to him would just
ring, even if he's sitting in someone
elses office for the moment...
(I helped with the implementation of this
kind of system, but with infrared badges,
in a hospital)
BUT, of course, you should be able to
disable the chip if you wich to...
Just to much of a dreamer I guess
J.
Anytime you put something artificial in someone, it seems that you increase the risk of cancer.
can any doctors comment on this?
Uh yeah. But you see the US government has diffiernt ideas about what odd is.. e.g. Starting a civil rights movment. Which to them is a "crime".
It might be usful 4 the family pet. But anyone could easly get the chip out or dissable it if they really wanted to. So it won't stop that much kid napping.
But if it's case of the child just wondering off. Surly a whatch could do the trick, in stead of implanting a chip in to you cjild so the govenment can track and record every single move.
If I can get one of these implanted in my cat. That way if he ever gets out we can find him. I can think of a lot of uses like that, for example if you implated it in cows it would make life much easer for rachers. Or you could use it to tag animals for wildlife studies. I'm not sure I would want them in people, but I think it would be very usefull for animals.
Erlang Developer and podcaster
Apparatus for tracking and recovering humans utilizes an implantable transceiver incorporating a power supply and actuation system allowing the unit to remain implanted and functional for years without maintenance. The implanted transmitter may be remotely actuated, or actuated by the implantee. Power for the remote-activated receiver is generated electromechanically through the movement of body muscle. The device is small enough to be implanted in a child, facilitating use as a safeguard against kidnapping, and has a transmission range which also makes it suitable for wilderness sporting activities. A novel biological monitoring feature allows the device to be used to facilitate prompt medical dispatch in the event of heart attack or similar medical emergency. A novel sensation-feedback feature allows the implantee to control and actuate the device with certainty.
Claims:
1. A transceiver device implantable in a human body comprising:
- a triggerable radio frequency transmitter,
- a power source for powering said transmitter,
- triggering means for activating said transmitter,
- receiver means allowing the detection of an externally generated information signal,
- an antenna for effectively radiating RF energy from said transmitter to produce an identifiable RF signal for a period of time following activation by said trigger means,
- said receiver means comprising an electromechanical device having a binary output, a digital decoder for detecting predetermined time-encoded information in the binary output of said electromechanical device and for providing an electrical trigger signal representative of the presence of such pre-determined information, and said trigger signal causing the activation of said transmitter.
(...)5. The implantable device of claim 1, wherein said receiver means additionally comprises a sustainable power supply comprising means for picking up periodically available external energy without external electrical contact, storing said energy for use over time, such that the resultant stored energy is sufficient to power the receiver means with enough regularity to ensure proper detection of information on said incoming signal.
(...)
15. The transceiver of claim 1, further comprising sensory stimulus means for providing a noticeable stimulus to alert the human in whom the device is implanted that all or part of said externally generated information signal has been detected by said digital decoder.
When the little display says "ReskueMeKwik status: not transmitting, not responding" will you believe it?
How sure are you that Joe Spook hasn't switched it to full-beacon-without-notification mode, or more cunningly, into "call me back" mode, beaming him your coordinates only on request? (Or for that matter, that an unscrupulous employee of your local ReskueMeKwik store isn't doing likewise.)
Include the ability to interact with a bloodsugar monitor so that bloodsugar fluctuations can be tracked. The implant could record a wearer's bloodsugar and alert them to conditions of hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia. It could revolutionize treatment for diabetics and probably cheapen it too. It costs $1.00 for a single bloodsugar test that should be taken at least three times a day. It should be cents on the dollar for this treatment-- too bad there are too many greedy people in health care services.
The fact that you think military people (you know, the ones that would protect you if another country attacked?) should be used as test subjects simply because they can't refuse is disturbing at the very least. It would be something else entirely if they _volunteered_ to be outfitted with these things. Based on my knowledge of military people (and I do know several), a lot of them would volunteer, leaving no need to force the rest to choose between complying or going to prison. That is, of course, all IMHO.
I and a lot of other people will pay $10000 for a lojack for my kid. Every time another child disappears I want one. I think everyone here who has kids knows what I'm talking about.
1) Young children go missing all the time. Therefore tag kids. Stop them bunking off school too the little toe rags. 2) Convicted sex offenders can be monitored more easily. 3) traveling abroad, you could opt to have one of these if your travelling to a known war zone or trouble spot. If terry waite had one of these a rescue would have been possible. So before you go on about "big brother", there are a few benefits to this. And anyway do you think the governemt has the time to track all 4 billion people on the planet? If youve come to their attention then your doing something very odd indeed.... Brad
In the TOS episode "Patterns of Force" Kirk and Spock were injected with subdermal 'transponders' that were intended for a similar purpose.
Implant in a baby - and some rich mother that has no tracking device sends out her private police. They walk into the place, and take the baby (leaving the transmitter). When the police come to investigate, they explain to the parents that they have been having this happen more and more often.
What you think is a protection to your child, could allow some pervert to track them.
Different senario - you have one implanted into you. A pervert finds out your ID. Now he can find you, and in the middle of the night, he comes into your place...
Sometimes it is the Government that you have to worry about, and sometimes it isn't. On second tought - even a 'Tap-Com' would be a bad idea.
Ratting 4 - Just blowing off steam.
To find the truth, you must look beyond what you see.
We know where you go today...
:-0
MarsDude
Clearly fraud. If you wanted to track someone this way, you would have to add a precise atomic clock for timekeeping, and put them in orbit so all the GPS software would function. Not very practical.
They are deliberately misleading investors with buzzwords that sound interesting, but cannot possibly lead to anything.
Another example - they predict the market will be worth 100 billion dollars. They give no justification for this figure, or even define a relevant market. But if you are going to protect a 100 billion dollar market, you need more than one single patent. You need thousands.
I see a more important market for this in devices for finding stolen items (electronics, paintings, cars, whatever), which the article states will be another version. Such GPS devices available today are typically huge and expensive, only appropriate for the most expensive luxury cars. These miniaturized versions will make it much more practical. Since it could be years before it's going, does anybody know of any good links to existing equipment to do the same thing (minus the GPS) in a way that can be hidden in electronics? (radio tags, whatever) I've heard it's extremely effective. The case I heard of was a thief robbing gear from all of the churches in my area. Some locations put in some transmitters, and within two weeks he stole again and they nailed the guy (in fact, he hadn't managed to fence almost anything yet from the previous locations, so nearly everything was recovered). I need such transmitters for the gear in my recording studio, home theater, and computers.
Hacking into the tracker to change its codes, assumes that you will be able to spoof the digital signature on its program and settings. Not too likely.
Now, on to the obviously absurd obersvations, things that could NEVER happen HERE..
If you kill your tracker implant, you will be stopped and checked every time you walk down a city street. (The cameras register you but not your IFF ping...) After you fail to have your "faulty" unit repaired, they pick you up for thoughtcrime, convict you in the car on the way to the hospital, and install a new improved tracker. Your new tracker will contain a stun gun circuit, and an embedded code restricting you to your new ghetto home and your new employer's property. The labor contracts will probably be offered at public auction.
Other social benefits of this technology will probably include drug testing 24/7, and the addition of a polygraph component. Imagine a cop reding your vital signs and stress index on a heads-up display during a traffic stop; it would save police officers' lives, and that makes it a Good Thing. Imagine criminals being diagnosed and "cured" before they actually commit the violent crime that their profiles say they will. Crime prevention, rather than mere deterrence, is a Good Thing.
Of course I am just being silly. The American People would not stand for that; look at how well they have done so far, at holding their government to the legal obligations and restrictions in the Constitution. We have nothing to fear but what the TV tells us to fear.
This comment could make you think a little. I live in Mexico City and in the last few months many people I know has been kidnapped (my own brother was kept against his will for a couple of hours. The ransome was about US $50,000.00) How much do you think I would pay for a device like this in a case like that? Maybe I'm just a big brother who fears a lot. This is not fiction.
That terrifies me to no end! The fact that this could become mandatory is scary as hell. It is for your own safty after all, just as is eaves droping on international phone calls and reading our e-mail. Maybe this is drastic, but maybe if we impose an 'On Site Death Penalty' for any loaw enforcement agent who abuses the right to spy on us we would have less problems. Yes I know thats drastic and uncalled for, but it's an example to make a point that we dont have a good checks and balance system for out current law enforcement. We need to do something, the USA _USE to be_ a free country, now it's slowly becoming a slave society. If the government isnt put back in check there will inevitably be a revolution attempt, and that can't be a good thing with as many countries as we have pissed off by interfearing in their relations with other countries, and with this chip, they could simply pick off those who they see as a threat. I would assume we will quickly devise some way to block the signal though, but still.....
An alternative for this to work would be for the person to wear a tranciever/amplifier on their belt, but then that defeats the purpose of implanting something to begin with.
This device is being called a "transceiver," so one could assume that it has a GPS receiver to figure out where it is, and a transmitter to broadcast that position to anyone who cares to listen.
Of course, to locate the device, a second GPS receiver would be needed to get a bearing from where you are to where the device is.
Anyway, this is just quibbling over semantics, and this device may be made moot in a few years, what with Congress eliminating funding for a civilian GPS.
The satellites have a limited lifespan, and the current system is likely to be replaced with newer, better, incompatible systems. "Planned obsolescence" and "implant" a bad combination make.
--
Why Ah Must Scribble GNU
Like that would be a good thing? Isn't it bad enough now that the government tracks as much information on/about you as it does? And what is to keep you from removing or altering your implant? Oh yeah, I saw that on an episode of Star Trek.
learning exactly how he spends his time on an average day as a measure to fight against "crime"
This is almost the same argument that is used by uninformed, well-meaning folks proposing MORE gun control as a means to crime control.
while paying no regard to privacy
My privacy is so valuable that I am actually willing to take responsibility for my own well being. I don't need the government to give me any cradle-to-grave protection.
let me put in a word that this might not necessarily be a bad thing if used correctly
I fail to see ANY scenarios where this could be used without doing more harm to the individual than it does good.
Diggs
If guns are so evil, how come Sarah Brady can hold one and not turn into a raving lunatic?? Oh yeah, she is one already.
GPS is a passive system, that is you don't talk to it but only receive the signal. It would take THOUSANDS of time more power just to receive the signal from the microwave sattelite. Even if GPS is just part of the localising part; What range could be expected from the petty microwatt or two available? With virtually no antenna, it would have to operate at higher frequencies, not possible on the tiny power available. There are presently devices (for cattle, pigs, dogs, etc) that operate at a few cm and are powered by induction. At the very best, such devices may have
a range of a few metres.
Implants that communicate with low earth orbit sattelites appear to be strictly sci-fi. As for conventional implants, if you don't want it, destroy it with a relatively strong RF field. A GSM mobile phone may do but any university would have the equipment for a sure kill. I would prefer to look at this as a way to defraude suits with impressive language with no true technical content. Investment fraude - What's new?
Imagine this GPS device is implantated in all humans. And your partner would get ahold of the
:)
tracking device.
No more "Sorry honey, I was working late at the office" excuses!
If this implant has any effect, it's the major increase in divorces
This is just a minor extension of technology which has been in use for years. No big deal. Plugging it under the skin is novel, but was bound to happen sooner or later.
Now, before you start jumping, it isn't likely that the government will ever implant everyone with this. To start off with, most people don't do very interesting stuff and your physical location isn't really all that important in the Infotmation Age (tm). Ok, so it is to me, but that's another thing.
Also, it has many legitimate applications. Keeping track of your kids when going to large attractions, supermarkets, etc. You don't have to implant them, you can just hang one around their neck.
Or keeping track of elderly people with heart conditions and alzheimer. A combination monitor/tracer would be ideal for doctors and family members.
And, of course, all the usual about keeping track of your art work (like any competent thief wouldn't EMP it to hell...)
Whatever, I'm blathering again.
*borkborkbork*
Also, congress did not cut GPS funding, it cut funding for a modernization of the civilian GPS system in an incompatible way, adding new features. It's possible that DOD could decide to upgrade the defense GPS, the one we are now using, in an incompatible way, but unlikely (think of all the GPS owners in the U.S. calling their congress people).
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Ah well, roll-on Chiba City - William Gibson - style
Just because you can't, doesn't mean you shouldn't.
If you have a daughter or son, and you watch the evening news, then you wonder if your child will be the victim of the next random predator. I wouldn't mind knowing where my kid is, down to 3 meters, if she ever got lost. When she's 18, she can take the damn thing out.
The most troublesome barrier that I can imagine is the legal one. If prisoners are required to be implanted, it is likely that it will be made a crime to remove the implant. This would be very bad in the situation I proposed in my previous posting where a protestor is arrested on "conspiracy" charges, implanted, and ordered not to associate with other protestors. If they remove their implant then they go to jail, if they associate with protestors they go to jail. [Notice I say prisoners above. It is conceivable that the corrections department might require the implanting of anyone who is in custody, weather guilty or innocent. Their are currently laws (proposed or real I can't remember) that make it illegal to reveal to someone under surveilance that they are in fact being monitored; imagine how that kind of legislation impacts on the use/removal of tracking implants]
Also, I do not believe that you are thinking things through about body heat. For one thing, body heat is a matter of vascular constriction (narrowing of the blood vessels), which increases the "friction" effect (Well, since it's dealing with fluid flow, "viscosity" is the more appropriate term, but let's not quibble).
It would be better to "go to the source" -- by implanting the chip near the heart, (perhaps attached to the pericardial sac). It would have a relatively constant source of heat energy, and would not be subject to temperature variations (such as a hand being placed in an ice bucket, or an ice-filled "headache bag" on a forehead).
Strike while the irony is hot! -- The Freethinker
If this will benefit me in the timely rescue from my kidnappers then I'd rather ware it thank you. That way when the tech savvy kidnapper bad guy comes at me with the receiver and the scalpel I can avoid the pain and give him/her my watch. Think about it, cars are stolen every day and even the most sophisticated alarm systems are defeated by the thieves. It will be a trivial task for someone with a little knowledge to remove/mask/burnout these devices. Anyone who thinks this is to stop crime is pathetic and needs to think about who would benefit MOST from these devices.
Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
Here is something to ponder. What if they were to say plant this chip somewhere near your stomach or rear-end, and it just so happened to makes it way into the digestive system and passed out of the body. Say you then rob an ATM machine or shoot someone. The authorities then go on a wide turd chase? *Blip* "Captain it just doesn't make sense, the man appears to be somewhere beneath the streets in the water return system!!!" Am I alone here? This chips could be fun!!! I could get into all kinds of trouble. : ) I could just see it now, 4 slightly overweight cops digging in turds at the processing plant. Case 2: Your dog bobo bits you in the arm and pries the chip loss and proceeds to eat it!!!
I think it will be a long time before private citizens are systematically implanted w/ these devices. Violent criminals probably will become the test cases for these new devices. Maybe even military personnel will be outfitted with these things. It would be easy to test on military people because they can't refuse anything their superiors say.
I have a child, she's 5 and I know were she is at all times, down to 3 meters. I act like a responsible parent at refuse to rely on everyone else to do my job. I hate to saddle her with an SS# let alone a tracking device. Tag the pedophiles and them leave them in the general prison population. That will fix that problem.
Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
some sort of new-age material overcoat or hat. Or even rubbing your hand over a wool sweater to zap it with static electricity.
"[The anti-Christ] also forced everyone, small and great ... to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark" -Revelation 13:16
These two areas are the best places to implant chips that run on body heat, as they receive the most energy.
If I had a point (Score:2) would be (Score:3).
Yes, you are correct in what you say, and explain it much better than I do. In general we are heading more tword a 'Fascist' state - and even that can be argued. (before I get shot down by a political expert).
The 'irony' was suppose to be that we were headed someplace where we did not want to be, and that we were being called what was the worst possible thing, but the one's that were calling us the worst possible thing were actually implimenting it,and all you were doing was trying to believe in our founding fathers words.
Yes it was a run on sentence. I'm entitled!
Just blowing off steam!
To find the truth, you must look beyond what you see.
I dunno about humans (except.. maybe it would
be fitting for people convicted of violent crimes)
but I think it'd be really really useful to
implant into my pet cat so the next time he
manages to slip out the door (he's a housecat),
I don't end up spending 6+ hours looking for him
like I did a week ago.
For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
What strikes me as enjoyable if the thought that I could plant this new device in my cat along with a number of those rice-sized bionic implants . All I would need then is a good remote control.
"The stupid cat's run off again kids. Bring him back."
Of course the story would have someone remote controlling an unwilling assassian, but people pay for things that make them fear.
PUBLIC SCHOOL STUDENTS: WARNING:Do not write the above story or they WILL assume that you are going to take a gun and kill all the teachers. I am a professional. Do not attempt to do this at home without an adult's supervision.(Yeah, like there's any adults at home paying attention...)
No Zen is good zen
scaramungos!!! me frindatas, fera Brrrrrrrandiba!!! e-ala qerantos bida ""ph1r5+ p05+"" hahaha!!! é nakido é petrifactos
Funny you should mention it -- a large telecom company in Japan decided a while ago to take advantage of their cellular layout for tracking purposes, with an unpleasant backlash. (Since I got most of these details through the AT&T grapevine, the following information is worth what you paid for it.)
There are about 20 radios in the typical cellular location (cell). With digital technologies one can take those 20 analog channels and push 3-5 calls per, raising the call capacity. However it's often not enough. In dense areas, the cells are made smaller and smaller, by installing more antenna arrays (cells) with lower power. New York and Tokyo were the first locations to begin installing microcells on individual buildings, and then on floor ranges for those buildings.
Then some bright Japanese fellow (or woman) decided that it would be nifty if one could go to a website and type in a cellular number, and be told what Tokyo microcell the phone was in. The purpose was ostensibly for safety and business convenience. The effect, predictably imho, was that the site was frequented by not-so-pleased wives looking for their husbands who were "working late at the office" but were oddly reported as being on the XXth floor of a downtown hotel. Needless to say, this was pulled very quickly.
I think not...(*poof*)
Time to rent Demolition man?~~He was born in the Twentieth, before they started Lo-jackin people!
It's startin to look that way isn't it. Just seen a great piece on the discovery channel about this. It was called: Sci-Trek: No Place to Hide: Little Brother
BTW Just jump into an (or get close too) an MRI. Then we'll see how this thingy works. Remember Murphys Law is on our side!
also "City of Steel: Carrier" was good too!